highaltitude.log.20131222

[00:01] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSQYr8f0014
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[01:54] <KF5WYX> Would appreciate opinions :: chapmanworld.com/flightcomputer.zip <- eagle pcb project. If anyone is willing to review this, please /msg me your thoughts. (going bbl)
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[02:14] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[02:15] <DL7AD> morning
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[03:03] <KT5TK> KF5WYX: Still there/
[03:03] <KT5TK> ?
[03:10] <MLow> WYX?
[03:10] <MLow> or are you maybe looking for me?
[03:11] <MLow> nvm i scrolled up
[03:11] <MLow> (KF5KWE here)
[03:26] <KF5WYX> Hi MLow what part of texas?
[03:27] <KF5WYX> I am mobile right now.
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[05:34] <KT5TK> Just for the guys from W5: We're launching on Sat. Jan 4th. 2014 after 9:00 am from the Covey Trails airport near Fulshear TX (29.6866,-95.8403). We have a 1600g Hwoyee and a cluster of 10 x 36" foil balloons. You're welcome to join us.
[05:56] Nick change: DL7AD -> AF5LI
[05:56] <AF5LI> morning
[05:56] <KT5TK> Sven, you're welcome
[05:57] <KT5TK> too
[05:57] <KT5TK> Just for the guys from W5: We're launching on Sat. Jan 4th. 2014 after 9:00 am from the Covey Trails airport near Fulshear TX (29.6866,-95.8403). We have a 1600g Hwoyee and a cluster of 10 x 36" foil balloons. You're welcome to join us.
[05:57] <AF5LI> :D let me have a look to airberliin :P
[05:58] <KT5TK> We might need to get a few more foils to send you back to Berlin again...
[05:59] <AF5LI> you told me, you already have 10 pieces
[05:59] <AF5LI> isnt that enough?
[06:00] <KT5TK> Not after the Texas Steaks you'll have...
[06:03] <AF5LI> everything oversized..... i thought even the balloons. but you wont get larger balloons in texas than qualatex.
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[07:28] <jesseg> Howdy Folks
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[08:12] <jcoxon> morning all
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[08:18] <jesseg> Morning jcoxon
[08:21] <jcoxon> hey jesseg
[08:33] <jcoxon> oh cool a south korean project (http://drone2space.org/launch/)
[08:37] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[08:43] <Upu> morning jcoxon
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[09:58] <nats`> hi
[09:58] <jcoxon> hey na
[09:58] <jcoxon> hey nats`
[09:58] <jcoxon> (oop)
[09:58] <nats`> ;)
[10:01] Action: jcoxon is constructing a flight board
[10:01] <nats`> you expect to put what chip on it ? :)
[10:02] <jcoxon> i've got a teensy3.0 so its a cortex-m4
[10:02] <nats`> oky :)
[10:02] <nats`> and for the trx ?
[10:02] <eroomde> beefy cpu
[10:03] <jcoxon> currently just a ntx2
[10:03] <jcoxon> its more learning how it all works etc
[10:06] Action: nats` hesitates to sell his microscope
[10:08] <eroomde> don't then
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[10:10] <fsphil> you need to make that cpu work jcoxon. doing rtty and gps it'll be spending 99% of its time waiting :)
[10:10] <eroomde> hopefully via interrupts rather than busywaits :)
[10:11] <jcoxon> eroomde, yeah i have!
[10:11] <jcoxon> well the timing is by interrupts
[10:12] <fsphil> it's got a lovely fast ADC but only 64k of memory
[10:13] <fsphil> the 3.1 anyway
[10:14] <eroomde> yeah, one of the annoying things with block-code error correction is that it works much better on longer block sizes
[10:14] <fsphil> yep
[10:14] <eroomde> i guess because that's a bit more 'random' analogous to using longer spreading codes in spread spectrum
[10:14] <eroomde> anyway, you sort of have to do random scramblings of 1000+ bits
[10:15] <eroomde> which is starting to use a fair bit of memory on a micro
[10:16] <fsphil> the standard convolutional coder is tiny but still really needs an interleaver, which will take up memory
[10:16] <eroomde> yeah
[10:16] <fsphil> infact RS codes are probably the most RAM efficient
[10:16] <eroomde> but yes that is the great advantage of the convolutional code
[10:17] <Darkside> hm
[10:17] <Darkside> im wondering how long an interleave you'd truly need
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[10:17] <eroomde> but i was thinking of something like Repeat-Accumulate codes whose encoder is simple conceptually, free from patents, and whose performance is very very good
[10:17] <fsphil> a seconds worth at least
[10:17] <Darkside> my thought was fixd size packets, and interleave and transmit the entire packet
[10:17] <Darkside> lik how WSPR does it
[10:17] <eroomde> given half the point of HAB is education, it'd be nice if a new awesome(tm) telemetry protocol could also be taught in a workshop at a conf
[10:18] <Darkside> so say, have 32 or 64 byts (nice round numbers), error correct, interleave, and send
[10:18] <Darkside> since we dont need continuous transmission
[10:18] <eroomde> that's partly my thinking with block codes
[10:18] <Darkside> a HAB doesnt need to use a 'chat' mode, so why not packetize the data properly
[10:18] <eroomde> it works with the packetiness
[10:18] <Darkside> even if its just header + data + CRC
[10:18] <Darkside> and the data can be atbitrary
[10:18] <Darkside> arbitrary*
[10:19] <eroomde> and performance starts to get respectible around 100 (data) bits
[10:19] <Darkside> but we could make a 'standard' binary spec
[10:19] <bertrik> maybe have a look a the protocols already used in commercial weather balloons
[10:19] <Darkside> ber hah
[10:19] <Darkside> if thy wer eopen, sure
[10:19] <Darkside> vaisalia's stuff is closed
[10:19] <eroomde> bertrik: i think a constraint is the amateur radio receiving mechanicsm
[10:19] <Darkside> also they use 2400 baud GMSK
[10:19] <eroomde> would be nice if the new thing happily fit into the 3khz bandpass of an ssb receiver, as now
[10:20] <Darkside> eroomde: those can be received with a FM receiver btw
[10:20] <bertrik> eroomde: so, only stuff that dl-fldigi supports?
[10:20] <Darkside> but yes, its not as efficient
[10:20] <eroomde> no, dl-fldigi is neither here nor there
[10:20] <eroomde> and can be patched
[10:20] <eroomde> i mean physically
[10:20] <eroomde> 3khz ssb sort of thing
[10:20] <eroomde> on 70cm
[10:20] <fsphil> not using fldigi could be a good thing
[10:20] <eroomde> yeah
[10:21] <eroomde> i imagine for the first experiments i'd just get people to record a wav and run it through a python script
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[10:21] <Darkside> eroomde: anyways, im wondering about incorporating the header and CRC stuff in th emodulation spec
[10:21] <Darkside> that way you have a way of doing interleaver and packet sync
[10:21] <Darkside> you just hunt for a valid header and CRC
[10:21] <eroomde> hmmmm
[10:21] <Darkside> im not sure the best way to do that
[10:21] <Darkside> but that seems sane
[10:21] <eroomde> my gut feeling is to keep the pipe agnostic
[10:21] <fsphil> a low bitrate beacon
[10:22] <fsphil> something to scan for
[10:22] <eroomde> have a block of bits, encode, modulate, demodulate, decode
[10:22] <Darkside> eroomde: hmm
[10:22] <Darkside> but wont you get better protection of th data if its encapsulated?
[10:22] <eroomde> should be happy with a jpeg or ascii jokes
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[10:22] <Darkside> if you know you're sending 32 byts or packet, you can protect it better
[10:22] <Darkside> and interleave it effectively
[10:23] <Darkside> ala WSPR and JT65
[10:23] <eroomde> well, if you use block codes that's all done anyway
[10:23] <eroomde> you can have a tune-in beep or something either-side of the packet
[10:23] <Darkside> 01010101
[10:23] <eroomde> yeah
[10:23] <eroomde> that can characterise the channel
[10:23] <Darkside> hrm
[10:24] <eroomde> that might all be a bit heuristicy though
[10:24] <Darkside> yeah i wouldnt go into channel sounding
[10:24] <Darkside> its not needed
[10:25] <fsphil> optional for HF maybe
[10:25] <Darkside> on HF its a bit more useful
[10:25] <Darkside> but you need it all throughout your transmission, not just at the start
[10:25] <eroomde> but equally an audible something for hams trying to find the signal could be useful
[10:25] <fsphil> wastes some power
[10:25] <Darkside> eroomde: yes
[10:25] <Willdude123> Are most amateur radios built to cover a wider range than just the amateur bands. Like could I pick up 434.075 on an FT-857?
[10:26] <eroomde> as a bit-rate of 9.6kbps is probably not going to be that audible
[10:26] <eroomde> it'll probably just sound like noise
[10:26] <fsphil> 434 is in the amateur bands Willdude123
[10:26] <Darkside> fsphil: not in all countries :-)
[10:26] <eroomde> Willdude123: often yes, you can receive a very large swathe
[10:26] <Willdude123> Oh are we secondary?
[10:26] <fsphil> * in the uk :)
[10:26] <eroomde> and only transmit on certain legal bands
[10:26] <fsphil> amateurs are secondary too
[10:26] <Darkside> eroomde: i'd probably start lower bitrate btw
[10:26] <Darkside> mayb 4.8k
[10:26] <fsphil> I believe the primary user on 434mhz is the MOD
[10:26] <Darkside> as 9.6k psk may not fit in 3KHz
[10:27] <eroomde> it does
[10:27] <Darkside> shouldn't it technically be 9.8KHz wide?
[10:27] <Darkside> 9.6*
[10:27] <Darkside> hrm
[10:27] <eroomde> i wouldn't suggest it if i hadn't worked it out
[10:27] <fsphil> qam!
[10:27] <eroomde> this is 16QAM btw, not PSK
[10:27] <Darkside> oh
[10:27] <Darkside> righto
[10:27] <eroomde> that was with 4:1 encoding for a 2.4kbps datarate
[10:27] <Willdude123> could you no turn your power down to like 10mW and then it wouldnt be amateur radio and you could do whatever you can with the license free portion?
[10:27] <Darkside> Willdude123: yses
[10:27] <Darkside> yes*
[10:27] <eroomde> that just seemed like a rough starting stab for me. not optimal by anymeans
[10:28] <Darkside> eroomde: well mak everything modular
[10:28] <fsphil> Willdude123: you'd still have to run under the ISM rules
[10:28] <Darkside> like i;ve been trying to do with my modem stuff
[10:28] <Willdude123> I could do with a low power link to experiment with packet and still use ssh
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[10:28] <eroomde> yeah
[10:28] <fsphil> and technically your radio hasn't been approved for that ... but nobody will care
[10:28] <eroomde> will also need to make a decent linear Tx
[10:28] <Darkside> yeah this is going to be the problem iirc
[10:28] <Darkside> a suitable TX on 70cm is going to suck to make
[10:28] <eroomde> well, it's all just engineering right
[10:29] <Darkside> yeeeeeeeah
[10:29] <eroomde> just a question of learning the stuff you don't know yet
[10:29] <fsphil> I doubt your radio will go as low as 10mw though
[10:29] <Darkside> you do realise 90% of stuff on VHF.UHF is FM right :P
[10:29] <Darkside> im sure theres a good reason for that
[10:29] <eroomde> yes
[10:29] <Darkside> simplicity
[10:29] <eroomde> cos it's cheap and sensitive to mistuning
[10:29] <eroomde> insensitive*
[10:29] <Darkside> mm
[10:30] <fsphil> SSB receivers are getting a lot cheaper
[10:30] <eroomde> doesn't mean SSB is witchcraft though
[10:30] <fsphil> cost isn't what it used to be
[10:30] <Darkside> yes
[10:30] <Darkside> but its going to be a PITA to do
[10:30] <Darkside> and is going to make the transmitter cost a lot more
[10:30] <Darkside> i'd make sure you can apply whatever you're doing to somehting like a GMSK transmitter
[10:30] <eroomde> i design rocket engines for a living
[10:30] <Darkside> like what the Si chips can do in direct mode
[10:30] <eroomde> if i wanted easy i wouldn't be doing this
[10:31] <Willdude123> Interesting how my parents are ok with me spending £700 of my savings on a radio they dont understand, but it topk them a good few months to let me buy a £600 PC
[10:31] <Darkside> as switching the si chips to direct mode then pumping bits at it is going to b a hell of a lot easier
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[10:31] <eroomde> radio will last you years and teach you lots Willdude123
[10:31] <eroomde> good investment
[10:31] <fsphil> IQ modulators don't seem too expensive
[10:31] <eroomde> pc's come and go
[10:31] <eroomde> exactlt fsphil
[10:32] <Willdude123> Might pick up an x-50 from ml&s at the weekend
[10:32] <Darkside> im sure you could make a SSB transmitter using entirely minicircuits components
[10:32] <fsphil> though it also needs a frequency source, and an amplifier
[10:32] <eroomde> minicircuits probably have enough stuff to get something working and flying fairly quickly
[10:32] <eroomde> yeah :)
[10:32] <Darkside> fsphil: si chips in direct mode make a nice cheap LO :P
[10:32] <Darkside> as i found out
[10:32] <fsphil> oooh yes
[10:32] <Darkside> phase noise though
[10:32] <Darkside> which might mess with QAM
[10:33] <eroomde> tcxo+pll
[10:33] <eroomde> was my plan
[10:33] <Darkside> eroomde: so basically a RFM22B then :P
[10:33] <Darkside> with a TCXO
[10:33] <bertrik> maybe you can do SSB using software at a low frequency, then move it up with a mixer
[10:33] <eroomde> sure, never used one so don't know what its guts are like
[10:33] <eroomde> that's the plan bertrik
[10:34] <eroomde> use the DAC on the cortex to generate it with an audio IF, then mix up
[10:34] <Darkside> sounds sane
[10:34] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[10:34] <Darkside> then just use a GALI-84 or something as a PA
[10:34] <eroomde> but gotta get sims working in python first
[10:35] <eroomde> a model gaussian channel, 'show' that it's better than domino or whatever
[10:35] <Darkside> mm
[10:35] <nats`> someone knows one want amateur band you have the more traffic in voice ?
[10:35] <Darkside> nats`: was that english?
[10:35] <Darkside> it had english words in there, but i didnt detect much english grammar
[10:36] <nats`> sorry english is not my first language :\
[10:36] <Willdude123> Am I correct in saying that regardinbg the ISP's logs and the police,they only have to respond if it is a court order?
[10:36] <Darkside> ahh
[10:36] <Darkside> Willdude123: what did you do >_>
[10:36] <fsphil> lol
[10:36] <jcoxon> Willdude123, not sure this is the place for legal advice
[10:36] <nats`> Willdude123 not in France
[10:36] <Darkside> note: channel is logged
[10:36] <nats`> we can deliver the results of the request if an assermented officer certify there is a life in danger
[10:36] <Willdude123> I was talking about what happened with ck's payload
[10:37] <Darkside> oh
[10:37] <Willdude123> I'm not in trouble
[10:37] <Willdude123> :-)
[10:37] <fsphil> hmmm... the minicircuits website redirects me to an IP address
[10:37] <nats`> fsphil as susual :)
[10:37] <eroomde> probably more usable than their website
[10:37] <Darkside> eroomde: you could pretty easily do some basic PER analysis with dl-fldigi, to check the AGWN performance of differnet modes
[10:37] <Darkside> i did that with HF channls
[10:38] <eroomde> 'oh you want a mixer? here's 200 of them in a giant html table with unuseful parameters you can't sort'
[10:38] <Darkside> eroomde: ADE-1
[10:38] <eroomde> yes, i will
[10:38] <Darkside> diode ring mixer
[10:38] <Darkside> 7mW LO in
[10:38] <Darkside> dead simple to use
[10:39] <eroomde> ty Darkside
[10:39] <nats`> Willdude123 we have a 24/24 service to do that you can imagine if there is a call for a suicide or an homicide at 3 a.m. they will not wait for a court order
[10:39] <Darkside> eroomde: anyway, simple way to do fldigi stuff is generate test signal, generate a bynch of files with varying nois levels
[10:40] <Darkside> then use fldigi's batch mode to demodulate it to text
[10:40] <Darkside> then just check for number of instances of packets
[10:40] <Darkside> or be a bit smarter and do some btter string comparison
[10:40] <Darkside> but number of packets is a simple way to start
[10:40] <Darkside> and givs a good approximation
[10:41] <Darkside> note: fldigi's batch mode doesnt work for all modes, which is a pain
[10:41] <Darkside> but i think it works for dominoex...
[10:42] <eroomde> i'd probably sooner code it all up in python
[10:42] <Darkside> you mean do a demodulator from scratch?
[10:42] <eroomde> that way i can be sure about what i'm getting in terms of noise and decoder design
[10:42] <eroomde> yes
[10:42] <Darkside> even to test existing mdoems?
[10:42] <Darkside> modems*
[10:42] <eroomde> yes
[10:42] <Darkside> hrm
[10:43] <eroomde> i did a GPS one in front of lots of people in a couple of hours at the conference
[10:43] <Darkside> yeah
[10:43] <eroomde> doesn't take too long to write
[10:43] <Darkside> i'd be interested to see how close the demodulators in fldigi are to theoretical performance limits
[10:43] <eroomde> especially once you add in the 20 extra IQ points you have when you're doing something alone instead of standing up infront of loads of people
[10:43] <Darkside> i.e. the RTTY demodulator
[10:43] <Darkside> its possible it could be crap
[10:43] <eroomde> yes i'd be very interested in that too
[10:44] <Darkside> in my case i didnt want to delve too far
[10:44] <fsphil> it appears to have gotten a lot worse in the latest versions
[10:44] <Darkside> especially since i was testing basically all the common HF modems
[10:44] <Darkside> and theres a lot of them..
[10:44] <Darkside> but i'll be doing my own MFSK-ish like modem in the next few months
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[10:46] <eroomde> mine probably won't be mega-sophisticaed, just basic text-book implementations
[10:46] <eroomde> but not having the real-time constraint makes it quite easy - can just use numpy
[10:47] <Darkside> yep
[10:47] <Darkside> though if you code it suitably, you could make it take buffers of samples
[10:47] <Darkside> and possibly use chunks of the same code in a realtime implementation
[10:48] <Darkside> thats what i've been trying to do anyway
[10:48] <Darkside> not sure how well its going to work, but its a nice thought
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[10:48] <eroomde> aye
[10:48] <Willdude123> Is there a document that details all the ism bands?
[10:49] <Darkside> Willdude123: it dpeends on your country
[10:49] <eroomde> there keeps being rumbles about an fldigi replacement at some point in the future
[10:49] <Darkside> they are not universal
[10:49] <eroomde> Willdude123:
[10:49] <Darkside> nice
[10:49] <Willdude123> It might actually be a better idea for my rig program to work through a low power radio link
[10:49] <Darkside> Willdude123: your what?
[10:52] <Darkside> Willdude123: rig program?
[10:52] <Willdude123> Well I am designing a system
[10:52] <Willdude123> tTo operate my radio remotely
[10:53] <Darkside> err
[10:53] <Darkside> okay
[10:53] <Darkside> dont use another low power link to do it :P
[10:53] <Darkside> well, not on 434MHz anyway
[10:53] <Darkside> wifi or something maybe
[10:54] <Darkside> but you want something that wont fall over whn you transmit on your remote rig
[10:54] <Darkside> else bad things happen
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[10:56] <eroomde> indeed, if you use a 434mhz link and remotely set your rig to 434mhz, it'll drown you out when you try and control it
[10:56] <eroomde> you could try a zigbee or something
[10:56] <Darkside> tbh to remote control a rig, rpi or similar hooked to a decent wifi link
[10:56] <Darkside> like ubiquiti gear
[10:57] <Darkside> then you get good bandwidth to it
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[10:57] <Darkside> and have a link that is a long away away in frequency from your frquencies of interest
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[11:02] <Willdude123> Darkside do any of the rig control programs do voip so you can actually use the radoo
[11:02] <Willdude123> *radio
[11:03] <Darkside> the official icom one does
[11:03] <Darkside> but that dosnt help you much
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[11:05] <Darkside> Willdude123: most 'solutions' i'v seen involve something lik hamradiodeluxe and skype
[11:08] <mfa298> Willdude123: an alternative way to consider doing it might be seeing if there's a suitable radio with detachable / remote head option. You'll need to see what distances they will work over though.
[11:09] <Darkside> mm, for a remote receiver, somthing lik a funcube dongle is probably a better option than a full blown rig
[11:10] <Darkside> certainly cheapr, and potentially more useful
[11:10] <Darkside> may not have the same sensitivity and intermod figurs as a commercial rig though
[11:11] <mfa298> I think he's looking for a full blown rig so he can operate hf/vhf/uhf but with the radio next door.
[11:11] <Darkside> yeah that can be a pain to do
[11:11] <Darkside> most people i know that do that use things like remoterig hardware
[11:11] <mfa298> although I'm not really sure why the rig needs to be next door (I'm not sure I'd want to operate HF remotely like that)
[11:11] <Darkside> i have a friend who has his HF station set up so it can be operated remotely
[11:12] <Darkside> he uses icoms software though,w hich is quite nice
[11:12] <Darkside> and i have another friend that has used (doesnt atm) a kenwood ts-490 remotely, using remoterig
[11:12] <Darkside> he onc forgot to put the timeout timer on
[11:12] <MLow> whoa whats up with the spacenear.us tracker?
[11:12] <Darkside> and the link went down
[11:12] <Darkside> so he had to drive 2 hours to the site to cut power to the transmitter
[11:13] <mfa298> ouch
[11:13] <Darkside> yeah
[11:13] <Darkside> i've done thatr myself
[11:13] <Darkside> where 40W on AM killed the CIV control link
[11:13] <Darkside> and i had to drive home from hackerspace to turn off the radio
[11:14] <mfa298> HF digital modes would probably be ok remote, but I can see the lag of an internet connection getting annoying if you're trying to tune in to an ssb station
[11:14] <Darkside> you definitely want low latency
[11:14] <Darkside> up to 200ms is tolerable
[11:14] <Darkside> also in my friends case, (the icom guy, not ht ekenwood guy), he has a SDR in the RX loop of his IC-7600
[11:14] <Willdude123> mfa298 it is because my roof is impossible to get on and the pole would need to be huge
[11:14] <mfa298> MLow: spacenear.us seems ok to me, actually loaded everything first time for once as well :)
[11:15] <Darkside> Willdude123: more coax
[11:15] <Darkside> or alternatively different antnna ideas
[11:15] <Darkside> putting your radio on a pole is not a good option
[11:15] <MLow> mfa298: i mean theres like a lot of stuff
[11:15] <Darkside> you want all that stuff whre you can get to it
[11:15] <Willdude123> My granddad's hous is a hell of a lot higher than mine
[11:16] <Willdude123> Darkside
[11:16] <Willdude123> The antenna dear :-)
[11:16] <mfa298> MLow: ah, it may not have been cleared for a few days if there's no active flight.
[11:16] <Willdude123> My granddad's house is a lot higher so it would cause a LOS problem
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[11:17] Action: mfa298 didn't realise there are mountains in basingstoke.
[11:17] <Darkside> Willdude123: is this mainly for HAB stuff?
[11:17] Action: Willdude123 didnt either
[11:17] <Willdude123> No
[11:17] <Darkside> mm
[11:17] <Darkside> just put a mast up
[11:17] <Willdude123> mfa298 where?
[11:17] <Darkside> it'll b useful for other stuff
[11:17] <Darkside> like running HF antnnas from
[11:18] <Darkside> 6m lngth of aluminium pol, some guywires
[11:18] <Darkside> problm solved
[11:18] <Willdude123> I am planning on havimng a x-50 up
[11:18] <Willdude123> My dad thinks our roof cant support an antenna
[11:19] <Darkside> lol
[11:19] <Darkside> suuuuure
[11:19] <Darkside> what kind of roof is it
[11:19] <Darkside> corrugated iron?
[11:19] <Darkside> tiled?
[11:19] <Willdude123> Well chimney
[11:19] <Darkside> dont put it on the chimney then
[11:19] <Willdude123> thats the only place we can put it
[11:19] <Willdude123> I live in a converted bungalow
[11:20] <Darkside> if its tild, you remov a tile at a suitable point whre you can put a mast through, and you seal up the hole with a rubber grommet
[11:20] <Darkside> works very well
[11:20] <mfa298> if it's that weak I hope they don't plan on selling the house ever.
[11:20] <Darkside> if its corrugatd iron, you can get antenna masts that attach to the roofing screws
[11:20] <Willdude123> Well, I meant the chimney
[11:21] <Willdude123> Cant imagine how you could mount it on the roof
[11:21] <Darkside> plenty of ways
[11:21] <mfa298> if the house is so weak you cant put up a vhf/uhf vertical don't try putting up a normal TV antenna or satellite dish, they'll have a much bigger wind loading.
[11:21] <Darkside> again, what kind of roof is it
[11:21] <Willdude123> I dont know
[11:21] <Darkside> uhh
[11:21] <Darkside> go look?
[11:21] <Darkside> does it have tiles?
[11:21] <Willdude123> Yes
[11:21] <Darkside> corrugated iron?
[11:21] <Darkside> ok, easy
[11:22] <Darkside> inwide the roof will be a nice framework
[11:22] <Darkside> you take out a single tile, and have the mast secured to the framework inside the house
[11:22] <Willdude123> Right.
[11:22] <Willdude123> Aesthetically it'd look horrible
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[11:22] <Darkside> then whre th mast protudes through the tiles, you use a rubber grommet thing (cant remembr the exact name) to secure it
[11:22] <Darkside> most antennas do
[11:22] <Willdude123> It would need a huge huge mast
[11:22] <Darkside> nahhh
[11:23] <mfa298> most people won't notice a small mast and vertical antenna.
[11:23] <Willdude123> It would
[11:23] <Darkside> you'd b surprised whar you can do with a short mast
[11:23] <Upu> phnarr phnarr
[11:23] <Darkside> something something its not the size that counts
[11:23] <Darkside> (well, it does, but ehh)
[11:23] <Willdude123> There's a huge house next to me that would ruin the LOS
[11:23] <Upu> thing is Willdude123
[11:23] <Upu> they are called white sticks because they are white
[11:23] <Darkside> Willdude123: doesnt matter
[11:23] <Upu> and in the UK its always cloudy
[11:23] <Upu> so you can't seem them
[11:23] <Willdude123> Hehe
[11:24] <fsphil> the aluminium mast will be more noticable
[11:24] <Willdude123> Darkside why?
[11:24] <Darkside> Willdude123: multipath is your frind
[11:24] <Darkside> friend
[11:24] <Upu> I put up a 3 meter beam on my roof and no one said anything
[11:24] <Darkside> sure, th house will be in teh way a bit
[11:24] <Darkside> but it'll still work for most other directions
[11:24] <Upu> I was at least expecting "Mrs Miserable" to say something
[11:24] <mfa298> if you don't want to go through the roof, look at using something like T & K brackets to mount it to the wall.
[11:24] <Darkside> and its better than no antnna at all
[11:24] <Upu> but nothing
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[11:25] <fsphil> nobody noticed my antennas until I had two colinears
[11:25] <fsphil> one is fine, two looks really odd
[11:25] <Darkside> i've got 2x 7m high masts in the backyard
[11:25] <Willdude123> Err
[11:25] <Darkside> it took my landlord a month to notice
[11:25] <Willdude123> I am not really comfortable going on my roog
[11:25] <Willdude123> *roof
[11:25] <Darkside> Willdude123: uhh
[11:26] <mfa298> I've run special event stations with two masts up in a small compound, one of them right next to the entrance.
[11:26] <Darkside> then dont go putting any antnnas up
[11:26] <Willdude123> So t and k on the wall is probably the best option for me
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[11:26] <mfa298> asked people when they arrived if they saw anything different when they came in. no one had seen them.
[11:26] <Willdude123> But it would need a very very big mast
[11:26] <fsphil> I wonder if people will notice the 70cm yagis when I get them up
[11:27] <fsphil> or if that they keep pointing in different directions
[11:27] <Darkside> Willdude123: something is better than nothing
[11:27] <Darkside> dont try and be higher than everything in the area
[11:27] <Darkside> that just means that your mast is going to get hit by lightning instead of the neighbours house
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[11:28] <Willdude123> It should be higher
[11:28] <Willdude123> I think it would still have los provlems
[11:28] <mfa298> Willdude123: unless you're going for vhf/uhf yagi's and big distances on 2m/70cm ssb then you probably dont need a huge mast.
[11:28] <Darkside> but that'll likely be impractical
[11:28] <Darkside> i wouldnt be concerned about the LOS stuff
[11:28] <Willdude123> Will talk to Tim next weekend
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[11:29] <Darkside> mayb you take out 30 degrees
[11:29] <Darkside> oh well
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[11:29] <Willdude123> Since he's taking my granddad and I to ml&s he could possibly give some advice, when he can actually see the house
[11:30] <mfa298> and someones attic probably won't be as lossy as the main house - there's plenty of people who put their antennas in the attic because they can't have them outside for whatever reason.
[11:31] <fsphil> oooh that launch is only about 20km from parkes
[11:32] <Darkside> theres been a few launches in that area
[11:32] <Darkside> robert brand has done some
[11:32] <Darkside> though he uses APRS
[11:33] <mfa298> when putting up the mast with a vertical it might be worth putting a pully with some rope on that can be used for an end/centre of a HF wire. (although you might want to consider what strains it would put on the mountings (i.e. make sure it's not trying to directly pull the bolts from the wall)
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[11:34] <fsphil> nice. would have liked to visit it but it was too far from sydney
[11:34] <fsphil> would've taken all day just to get there
[11:34] <Darkside> yah
[11:34] <Darkside> tidbinbilla was better
[11:34] <Darkside> :P
[11:34] <Darkside> moar dishes
[11:34] <eroomde> is that an actual place name?
[11:35] <fsphil> lol
[11:35] <Darkside> eroomde: yes
[11:35] <Darkside> just like marroochydoore, wagga wagga, and gundagai
[11:35] <eroomde> wow
[11:35] <fsphil> oh man it is
[11:35] <Darkside> welcome to NSW
[11:35] <Willdude123> I love weird place names. I know someone who moved to Cumming in Georgia
[11:35] <Darkside> home of weird plac enames
[11:35] <Darkside> eroomde: most of us think the names are weird too
[11:36] <Darkside> eroomde: have you heard 'i'v been everywhre man' ?
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[11:36] <eroomde> no
[11:36] <fsphil> one of the taxi drivers kept pointing out weird names
[11:36] <Darkside> oh god
[11:36] <Darkside> hang on
[11:36] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozLSAcPdDFE
[11:36] <Darkside> xcuse video
[11:36] <Darkside> just listen to audio
[11:37] <Darkside> this is true australian
[11:37] <Darkside> and is awesome
[11:38] <Darkside> also it turns out that all the place names are mostly in eastern australia
[11:38] <gonzo__> anyone able to answer a completely noddy question about instaling fldigi on ubuntu?
[11:39] <fsphil> I've read your mind and decided no
[11:39] <fsphil> but ask anyway :)
[11:39] <gonzo__> followed the links on the wiki, think it';s in the reposirory
[11:40] <gonzo__> the install is confusing me
[11:40] <gonzo__> synaptic can't find it
[11:41] <gonzo__> (the inly thing I know about the os is, put an os install cd in and hit 'ok'. Never used it till now)
[11:41] <fsphil> what wiki page did you get the links from?
[11:43] <gonzo__> the ukhas
[11:43] <Willdude123> What's the difference between diamond x-50 and x-50n?
[11:44] <mfa298> x-50n probably has an N socket rather than so239
[11:44] <fsphil> gonzo__: yea but which page
[11:44] <mfa298> that's pure guessing though
[11:44] <eroomde> my sister has invented a new pudding - bread and butter pudding made from hotcross buns she found in the freezer
[11:44] <fsphil> good guess
[11:44] <eroomde> let's hope
[11:46] <Upu> that sounds truly amazing
[11:46] <fsphil> I've lost a multimeter. It's bright florescent orange and it's disappeared
[11:46] <Upu> I love bread and butter pudding
[11:46] <Upu> wife hates it
[11:46] <Upu> so we never have it
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[11:46] <fsphil> just bread and butter?
[11:46] <Upu> pudding
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[11:47] <eroomde> you layer bread and butter in a dish, add some nutmeg and salatanas or whatever, pour over custard, and bake
[11:47] <eroomde> result is sort of half sponge, half custard
[11:47] <fsphil> interesting
[11:47] Action: daveake is now hungry
[11:47] <fsphil> I might have to try this
[11:48] <Upu> its amazing
[11:48] <eroomde> it works really nicely
[11:48] <Upu> yokohama
[11:48] <Upu> cut and paste fail
[11:48] <eroomde> and it's a fantastic way to use up some slightly stale bread
[11:48] <Upu> http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/breadandbutterpuddin_85936
[11:49] <Upu> just don't get poncy and start messing with it
[11:49] <fsphil> not gonna happen
[11:49] <Upu> lol
[11:49] <Upu> just realised what channel we are on
[11:49] <mfa298> hot cross buns would probably work well for bread pudding as well.
[11:49] <Upu> yep
[11:49] <fsphil> it's food for post-chase
[11:50] <eroomde> the one and only habbing channel, would that be, Upu?
[11:50] <Upu> thats the one
[11:50] <Upu> not exactly on topic
[11:50] <Willdude123> Flying bread and butter pudding in a hab?
[11:50] <Upu> but even habbers have to eat
[11:50] <eroomde> some of us make a habit of it
[11:50] <fsphil> we can make it more on topic by putting bacon in it
[11:51] <Darkside> pink food colouring
[11:51] <mfa298> fsphil: I was just thinking the same thing, although I think I'd keep the bacon for the butties first, bread / bread&butter pudding to use up the stale rolls from last launch.
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[11:54] <gonzo__> food is ot on any chan
[11:54] <gonzo__> on topic
[11:54] <gonzo__> (predicts a chocky bar pun thread.....)
[11:55] <daveake> <east_enders> You're Barrrrrrred </ee>
[11:55] <eroomde> that could be a nice conf workshop
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[11:56] <eroomde> cooking for habbers
[11:56] <gonzo__> that's nut fair
[11:56] <eroomde> things that are ideal for cold early morning launches and chases
[11:56] <eroomde> see what shannon had to say on how much pleasure can be derived per bit of bacon
[11:57] <gonzo__> is the nyquist limit affested by the qty of hp sauce?
[12:00] <daveake> HAB is to amateur radio what bacon is to ham
[12:00] <daveake> Much tastier
[12:00] <Darkside> none of you guys have odne HF contesting
[12:00] <Darkside> done*
[12:00] <Darkside> thats a whole lot of fun
[12:02] <eroomde> no
[12:02] <eroomde> i have, it wasn't
[12:02] <Darkside> heh
[12:03] <Darkside> we had heaps of fun doing it
[12:03] <eroomde> i simply don't 'get' the exchanging contacts with other people thing
[12:03] <eroomde> it's like stamp collecting
[12:03] <eroomde> it's just a gene I don't have
[12:03] <Darkside> yeah its a bit odd
[12:03] <Darkside> in our case we wanted to get our clubs name out there
[12:03] <Darkside> which we did
[12:03] <Darkside> it was also th fun of setting up a bunch of HF antennas then using them to talk to peopl around the world
[12:04] <Darkside> we built most of the antennas for the contest the day before
[12:04] <eroomde> i could see the appeal back in the day
[12:04] <eroomde> and it'd be fun when apollo was around and back in the mercury/gemini days when all they could get back from receiver stations around the world was 20WPM teletype
[12:04] <eroomde> (and they ran a space programme that way)
[12:06] <eroomde> but they had no choice back then, everything they did was solving an unsolved problem
[12:06] <gonzo__> have done microwave contests, as the kit is more fun
[12:06] <eroomde> which i find quite exciting
[12:06] <Darkside> yeahi havent gotten the microwave bug yet
[12:06] <Darkside> have had a chance to play with some fun gear
[12:07] <Darkside> and am interested in gunn diodes
[12:07] <Darkside> but havent actually done much yet
[12:07] <gonzo__> and you will spend 30mins to get a contact, and even spend time trying to help another station to do so
[12:07] <gonzo__> the points/winning is bearly a consideration
[12:08] <gonzo__> did gun tx=cvrs ages ago. but narrow band and sspa's are the way it all goes thesedays
[12:08] <gonzo__> gunn still fun to tat with
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[12:38] <Willdude123> Mm linux mint
[12:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> Merry Christmas ;-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pliki/choinka.jpg
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[12:39] <fsphil> hah, perfect
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[12:53] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[12:54] <Willdude123> SP9UOB-Tom: awesome :)
[12:54] <Willdude123> Linux mint is so nice.
[12:54] <Willdude123> I like this
[12:56] <Willdude123> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:benapetr/huggle
[12:56] <Willdude123> Oops
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[13:03] <MLow> wong tty?
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[13:21] <VK4HIA> G'day All, what batterie and how many do you use with gopro?
[13:22] <VK4HIA> Thinking 3x Energizer lithiums
[13:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> They seem to be the favorite in the UK at least!
[13:23] <adamgreig> with gopro, I just use the built in battery and ideally the battery bacpac
[13:23] <adamgreig> works fine
[13:24] <VK4HIA> OK, so internal batt will go for 2+ hrs?
[13:24] <adamgreig> ish, yea
[13:24] <adamgreig> test it and see!
[13:25] <VK4HIA> yes fair enough, can test not sure with the low temps
[13:31] <cm13g09> Willdude123: you may have a "wrong tty" problem - I nearly just pasted 300 lines of PHP....
[13:32] <cm13g09> thankfully IRSSI is smart enough to catch these kinds of things ;)
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[13:46] <eroomde> my sister's hunch was right, it was yummy
[13:46] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/5a6wLdv.jpg
[13:51] <adamgreig> that seems like a great idea
[13:51] <fsphil> looks mighty
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[14:15] <gonzo_mob> hot cross buns work well. i make b&b pud when tesco have them on clearance
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[14:25] <G0HDI> Anyone know if either AURA2 or ATLAS are flying today, ta!
[14:28] <fsphil> don't believe so
[14:28] <G0HDI> Ok thanks.
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[16:34] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hackersdelight.org/corres.txt
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[16:47] <Willdude123> Exactly how does one install an x-50 type antenna. Are they mounted on pole which are mounted on T&K brackets?
[16:48] <mfa298> it will probably have some mounting bits to attach it to a mast
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[16:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Normally a pair of U-bolts hold them to the mast that is then supported by what ever means suits
[16:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.g8dhe.com/amateurradio/g8dhe/beams.jpg
[16:50] <jcoxon> Geoff-G8DHE, thats a good setup!
[16:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: is this Yours ?
[16:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup here is a nother slightly cleare image of mounting http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/amateur-radio/antennas/base-antennas/comet-gp-9
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[17:00] <Willdude123> On the band plan what exactly is U274 etc?
[17:01] <mfa298> what bandplan are you looking at ?
[17:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Which Bandplan ?
[17:01] <Willdude123> RSGB
[17:01] <Willdude123> 70cm
[17:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> do you have a link ?
[17:02] <mfa298> at a guess it's probably a channel number for the bits which are normally used channelised
[17:03] <Willdude123> http://rsgb.org/main/operating/band-plans/uk-band-plan/
[17:03] <Willdude123> If you meet someone on the calling channel and want to QSY, how do you decide where to go?
[17:03] Action: SpeedEvil always gets the RSGB and RSPB mixed up.
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[17:04] <mfa298> experience, or guesswork. unless it's busy most people tend to go to the same channels.
[17:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes its the channel numbers looks like they have made them 3 digits now U-70cms 3 digits for channel
[17:05] <mfa298> U274 looks like it's a channel number, similar to 145.500 being S20 for most of us (although officially I think they've change to something else)
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[17:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup 2m=V now and 2 digits for simplex work then RV for repeaters
[17:09] <jcoxon> there is something very satisfying about using up spare parts
[17:10] <cm13g09> mfa298: 145.350 is, has been, and always will be known as 350 to me :P
[17:10] <cm13g09> After all.... the club has a habit of calling QSY 350
[17:11] <cm13g09> jcoxon: yes, there is
[17:12] <jcoxon> i've managed to salvage an old ntx2 and a GPSbee (neo-5W) gps
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[17:13] <mfa298> cm13g09: 350 is the calling channel down here isn't it :p
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[17:21] <cm13g09> mfa298: it seems o :P
[17:21] <cm13g09> *so
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[17:22] <SpeedEvil> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
[17:22] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
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[17:22] <SpeedEvil> `
[17:22] <jcoxon> oi
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> ``````````````````````````````````````
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> ``````````````
[17:23] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[17:23] SpeedEvil kicked from #highaltitude by jcoxon: SpeedEvil
[17:23] Action: mfa298 thinks SpeedEvil is a bit ticked off
[17:23] <jcoxon> should have perhaps given a warning
[17:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Cats in the room ?
[17:24] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[17:25] <mfa298> just a kick with something obviously being wrong on the client isn't too bad.
[17:25] <mfa298> although I'd have half expeted it to auto-rejoin
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[17:26] <SpeedEvil> Oops. PEBKAH
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> Hoover on keyboard error.
[17:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nice clean keyboard however ;-)
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> this is getting silly
[17:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> You don't take life seriously do you ?
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> i now have 27 gps correlator channels running on f4discovery
[17:29] <Laurenceb_> it seem assembler can always be made faster
[17:29] <Laurenceb_> *+s
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: :)
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: In real time equivalent?
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> yes
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> i dont have hardware hooked up tho
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> i discovered this: http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/NEWS4/BITCT.HTM
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> so back to bit counting
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> and its fast now
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Just so you don't get lazy.
[17:30] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: OOPS
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Have you considered GPS + GLONASS?
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Wow.
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> 6 cycle arm bitcount :D
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> thats 32 samples
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: That's the sort of page that makes the internet awesome.
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[17:33] <Laurenceb_> also its built into GCC
[17:33] <Laurenceb_> doh
[17:33] <Laurenceb_> (that same code)
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you mean there is a countones() in gcc?
[17:33] <Laurenceb_> yes - well if you use the arm gcc build
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> hah
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
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[17:35] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately i am too lazy to do the wrapper code for this
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> ideally it needs integrating with the swift nav code or something
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> or just use a swift nav receiver.. but huge spartan 3 fpga :-/
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[17:38] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if there are any low power and easy to hook up cortex A series chips
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[17:39] <Laurenceb_> NEON looks very cool
[17:39] <zyp> there are multiple a5 chips that might be usable
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> It does
[17:39] <Willdude123> So when putting a vertical up on a mast do you mount it to the mast and then mount the mast?
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Varies
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: It can be easiest to do it either way, depending on access and stuff
[17:40] <Laurenceb_> zyp: interesting
[17:40] <zyp> Laurenceb_, you might look at atmel sama5d3 and freescale vybrid
[17:40] <Laurenceb_> ah
[17:40] <zyp> vybrid is the one that is also available as a5+m4
[17:40] Nick change: englishman -> ChiefInnovationO
[17:41] Nick change: ChiefInnovationO -> ChiefInovatnOfcr
[17:41] <mfa298> may depend on the mounting hardware as well.
[17:41] <mfa298> my vertical has a small piece of tube that mounts to the mast then the atenna slots into that with a bolt.
[17:41] <Laurenceb_> zyp: its its big BGA
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> bga364, ewwww
[17:42] <zyp> Laurenceb_, I believe the vybrid is available with around a megabyte of internal sram, so if you're not going to run linux on it, you can probably ditch hooking up ddr sdram to it
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[17:42] <mfa298> so I might put the tube on the mast first then stick the mast up then put the antenna on. (although depends on access)
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> true
[17:43] <Willdude123> So if I can't reach the top of the mast then what do I do?
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: For not quite so mass limited stuff - I guess the beaglebone black would work very well.
[17:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> You need to also push the co-ax with plug up the tube do up the plug then slide aerial back into tube and do the bolt up
[17:44] <zyp> Laurenceb_, http://www.phytec.com/products/single-board-computers/ <- I've been meaning to order one of these to play with it, but last time I checked they didn't ship to norway
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> And there have to be other similar smaller suitable boards that also have tens of megabits/s of setial digital IO in too
[17:44] <mfa298> Willdude123: it really depends on what mounting hardware you have with the antenna and how well you can access stuff.
[17:44] <Willdude123> OK.
[17:44] <Willdude123> THink the X-50N comes with a pole mounting kit
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> but http://swift-nav.com/
[17:45] <mfa298> putting the mast up with not much on it will be easier. But then if you really cant put the antenna on top its not much good.
[17:45] Nick change: ChiefInovatnOfcr -> p0staL
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> begins to look more practical compared to that sort of stuff
[17:45] <mfa298> puting the antenna on the mast solves that, but may may puting the mast up harder
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A10/A10-OLinuXino-LIME/open-source-hardware - is close
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: once you pull the connectors off
[17:45] Nick change: p0staL -> englishman
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> im thinking minimal complexity, maybe even position solution on the ground
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> for picohab and stuff
[17:46] <Willdude123> Would need a huuge ladder to get above the soffit and up to the top of the pole though
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> http://store.swift-nav.com/
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[17:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> You normally arrange for the pole to slide up and down in T&K brackets so that its lowet to work on, then raise it to the right height, you may also need guy wires etc.
[17:47] <mfa298> Willdude123: it could be possible to mount the mast to the brackets first but lower than normal, then put the antenna on, then push the mast up.
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - above is a leetle heavy for pico
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[17:48] <Laurenceb_> and power hungry i bet
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: then again - 27 channels is overkill - for pico, it's probably debatable that you need 4.
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> but unfortunately you wont be able to beat ublox for power i dont think
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> most front end ics use as much power as a ublox7 in low power mode
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about that.
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> If you can come up for 1/50th of a second every 5 min or so - ...
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> As long as you have a nice clock.
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> I think I mean 1/20th of a second
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> but you need to know where to look
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> i guess you could just do FFT reaquisition
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming you got 99% of that from the satellite orbits and previous position solution.
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> The delta-v error is pretty small.
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> For many pico apps - you don't care about getting position to better than 300mish
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> but you can only pull in from less than 300m away
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> true
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> If it's in the air +-300m is unimportant. If it's landed - having a better position from a time whern you were in the air doesn't help at all
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> you need to reaquire on land anyway
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Well - 'at all' may be pushing it.
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> if you only want +-300m then FFT full search might work
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> wonder how demanding that would be
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> If in the air, with good seeing, you can probably only do a small subset of satellites too.
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Maybe even two, if you have a good clock and an altimeter
[17:55] Nick change: TimNilson -> ReadError
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> actually i guess you could fire up the correlators and wobble them back and forth
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> the doppler probably isnt going to change too much on a picohab
[17:57] <Laurenceb_> so yeah you might be able to get away with firing up the arm and frontend on full power for a less than a second
[17:57] <Laurenceb_> you could have something really simple - just a prompt bin for the correlator
[17:58] Action: SpeedEvil lolz at digikey search.
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> then jump around a few 300m bins and ~20hz doppler bins
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> downlink what it saw - peak locations
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> 0.5ppm 0.6ppb 0.7ppm...
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> heh
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> that might use only 50ma for a second or two
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[17:59] <cm13g09> lol - my client keeps trying to decode morse....
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[19:29] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcGDyDeCMAIcZPl.jpg:large
[19:29] <fsphil> that's cool
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[19:34] <jcoxon> fsphil, oh i forgot to say those teensy can do host usb
[19:34] <jcoxon> could attach a resonable camera
[19:36] <fsphil> true, though getting it into 64k ram will be a challange
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[19:40] <arko> neat
[19:41] <fsphil> no source code for the teensyduino stuff
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[19:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[19:41] <fsphil> evening
[19:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi phil. Is that 50SAT really on Bermuda island?
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[19:42] <fsphil> nah, I think that's a default for payloads that don't transmit coordinates
[19:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok i see
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[19:47] <fsphil> oh man the source is packaged in an executable. who does that anymore except on windows
[19:47] <fsphil> or even on windows
[19:47] <mattbrejza> http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/21/just-your-average-video-inflatable-sex-doll-hurled-31000-metres-into-space-4239601/
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[19:50] <mfa298> that sounds as bad as the people that put an msi (windows installer file) inside an exe file.
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[19:58] <fsphil> hah
[19:58] <fsphil> that would be a bit odd
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[20:26] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/cores/
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[21:11] <fsphil> nice find Gadget-Mac
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[21:31] <chrisstubbs> Any more news on the payload cuddykid?
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[21:31] <cuddykid> nothing unfortunately
[21:31] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: the power of google
[21:33] <cm13g09> Heard just now on the radio: "We're complaining to the Trade Descriptions Ombudsman about our recent trip to Selfridges. We wandered around for 2 whole hours, and not a fridge in sight"
[21:34] <mfa298> they don't get any better
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[21:34] <cm13g09> mfa298: Nope :P
[21:34] <daveake> sadly
[21:34] <cm13g09> they really don't
[21:34] <cm13g09> there's some really awful ones doing the rounds ;)
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[21:35] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: You got a teensy then ?
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[21:49] <DL1SGP> hej from denmark :P good evening to all of you
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[21:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Welcome to Denmark Felix
[21:56] <DL1SGP> thanks brian
[21:56] <DL1SGP> it will get stormy
[21:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah not the best wx
[21:57] <DL1SGP> who cares :P
[21:57] <DL1SGP> I heard some blokes on 145.500 when passing Arhus.
[21:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i dont, im inside and its warm :-)
[21:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah there are some locals chatting there
[21:58] <DL1SGP> I did not bother to call in, driving needed my attention with the storm and heavy rain
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[22:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but remember the danish bandplan for 70cm is only 432-438, dont go below or above or you collide with SNG/OB links and airport repeaters :-)
[22:00] <DL1SGP> no worries I checked bandplan pre departure
[22:00] <DL1SGP> and most comm will be through repeaters anyhow, and most likely 2m
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[22:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah 2m plan is the same as in Germany
[22:01] <DL1SGP> my track is on that aprs website if you wanna take a look lol
[22:01] <DL1SGP> I drove by close to you :)
[22:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> -5 ?
[22:02] <DL1SGP> indeed
[22:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yep found you
[22:03] <DL1SGP> heh
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[22:04] <DL1SGP> when I am QRV on 2m I will beacon the freq in the message, most likely I gonna sit on 145.475
[22:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> looks like good aprs coverage most of the way
[22:04] <DL1SGP> mobile network based
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[22:05] <DL1SGP> I wanted to construct something for real aprs but ran out of time due to some appointments and organisation pre departure
[22:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok, so whats the reason for track lag around Aabenraa?
[22:05] <DL1SGP> was that briefly after the border?
[22:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no for a pretty long way
[22:06] <DL1SGP> hmm will have to check later, I am keeping data load low
[22:06] <DL1SGP> most likely network issues
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[22:07] <DL1SGP> when there is daylight I will check on options for installing the HF antenna, one tree is down already and half way on our terrace lol
[22:07] <DL1SGP> but there are a few left
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[22:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what radio did you bring?
[22:08] <DL1SGP> I have the FT857d, FT8800 and TH-F7E
[22:09] <DL1SGP> so from the beach I might be audible for you even when using the HT only hi
[22:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thats should do it :-)
[22:10] <DL1SGP> I guess it would work from my room as well but parents are trying to sleep next door so no room for experiments right now, at least not for transmission
[22:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> No better not wake them up with radio noice
[22:12] <DL1SGP> heh I have headphones but my babbling would bother them
[22:13] <DL1SGP> anyhow we will have some opportunity to chat on the air. so no worries
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[22:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> did you bring a outdoor vhf/uhf antenna?
[22:14] <DL1SGP> the one that I use on the roof of the car :)
[22:14] <DL1SGP> so yes
[22:14] <DL1SGP> could drive a short distance and get on air
[22:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> well if its a magnet mount antenna, you miss the groundplane
[22:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok in that way
[22:15] <DL1SGP> not if I am sitting in the car :)
[22:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no thats right
[22:15] <DL1SGP> also I think the garage roof is metal, will have to check in daylight :)
[22:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes that should work fine if its metal
[22:17] <DL1SGP> anyhow, from here I would possible drive to ebeltoft, get onto the elevations that look over the town and the water, tat will quite help us. we can experiment the next weeks :)
[22:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i should have no problems with Ebeltoft. I normaly hear mobile stations in a 40km radius
[22:18] <DL1SGP> for now I gonna sign out, I guess I can reach you here if you are around. and if you feel like it watch out for my aprs status. it will contain the freq when I am on
[22:18] <DL1SGP> are you listening on any specific frequency for local traffic brian?
[22:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i will only be on here sporadic, so better use skype or email, if im not here
[22:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no i dont really have a standby freq here
[22:19] <DL1SGP> ok pls drop me an email at mycallsign@darc.de (substitute mycallsign by my calll)
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[22:20] <DL1SGP> like that I do not have to search for your address :)
[22:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok done
[22:21] <DL1SGP> thanks
[22:21] <DL1SGP> for now good night, I will keep you updated
[22:22] <DL1SGP> 73
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[22:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Im off too, goodnight
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[22:25] <Willdude123> Which frequency is this yagi for?
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[22:31] <Reb-SM3ULC> ?
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[22:40] <fsphil> Gadget-Mac: not yet
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[22:44] <Willdude123> Oh forgot to send link Reb-SM3ULC http://makezine.com/projects/homemade-yagi-antenna/
[22:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> danke
[22:46] <fsphil> homemade, you could do it for any band
[22:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> about yagi.. had missed the OH8X yagi coming down.. :(
[22:46] <mfa298> you should be able to work out band from the measurements
[22:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.vk5dj.com/yagi.html Try this litle utility for yagi designs, it includes details for the matching stub as well
[22:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Been considering a 19ele for 868MHz to go up next year when I get the aerials down next.
[22:48] <mfa298> I can't see any obvious lengths for the elements on that page
[22:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Follow the link to the original design might be a good idea
[22:49] <mfa298> I hadn't got that far, I think I've got too many tabs open for firefox, it's being slow
[22:54] <mfa298> Willdude123: seeing some lengths around 13" that would suggest it's 70cm ((13 * 2.54 * 2)/ .95)
[22:55] <fsphil> it does look to be 70cm
[22:56] <mikestir> Willdude123: I built a 70cm 7ele based off that VK5DJ yagi calculator. Its performance appears to be excellent.
[22:56] <fsphil> my 2m yagi is about as wide as it is long
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[22:59] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[22:59] <mfa298> Willdude123: for what was being talked about earlier with people not seeing antennas. This is an example of what people have not seen http://photos.suws.org.uk/index.php?album=outings/may-festival-2011&image=img_1999.jpg
[23:04] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[23:14] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to run getamap without silverlight?
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[23:23] <Willdude123> mikestir a lot of sats have downlinks on different bands to uplink
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[23:26] <mfa298> Willdude123: yagi's tend to be single band so if you want uplink and downlink you'll probably need a pair of yagi's and duplexer (or rig with seperate antennas for 2m & 70cm)
[23:32] <gonzo__> Geoff-G8DHE et al, a good design util (I've used a lot and with very good results)
[23:32] <gonzo__> http://www.k7mem.com/Electronic_Notebook/antennas/yagi_vhf.html
[23:34] <fsphil> the arrow-style antennas are good for dual band sats
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[23:35] <gonzo__> I have one, and very good it is for portable
[23:35] <Willdude123> hWoah
[23:36] <gonzo__> a friend just brought a load of 3mm ali welding rods for not a lot of money
[23:36] <gonzo__> about 1mtr long each. Ideal for elements
[23:36] <gonzo__> funcube pass just started
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[23:37] <mikestir> that's what I used - they're TIG rods so some kind of AlMg alloy. A bit harder than plain ally, which is good - harder to bend
[23:37] <gonzo__> cheap is summut like 100 for £20 ?
[23:38] <gonzo__> that's lots of cheap ants!
[23:38] <gonzo__> yep, tig rods
[23:38] <mikestir> they sell them by weight - I think it worked out about 50 for £15
[23:38] <mfa298> M5 threaded rod from B&Q / Wickes isn't bad either but costs more.
[23:39] <mikestir> yeah I don't know if I'd use the tig rods for a permanent antenna, but they're great for something that will be used portable
[23:40] <gonzo__> ali is prob a better conductor than steel (unless the rod is brass?)
[23:40] <gonzo__> tghough we would prob be pushed tp measure any difference in conductivity
[23:41] <gonzo__> just spray the ant with varnish etc
[23:41] <mfa298> 34mm pvc pipe makes for a decent mount and you could be able to seal the ends and mounting holes fairly well for a more perment thing.
[23:42] <gonzo__> for perm, the prob with thin tig rods is probably going to be distortion from birds. They bend the 1/16thselements on my 4mtr one all the time
[23:43] <gonzo__> I use 3/4" or 1" box sect ali, with a hole through the diam of the elements. Then put a threaded insert on a third side, so that a screw can go in and push the element to hold it in place
[23:44] <gonzo__> excellent on 3.16th inch
[23:44] <gonzo__> (sibot didn't catch that!)
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[23:45] <mfa298> i think sibot got upset with the amount of feet and left.
[23:45] <fsphil> it didn't measure up
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[23:46] <gonzo__> it voted with it;s feet?
[23:46] <gonzo__> http://www.wellyweld.com/categories/Aluminium-Filler-Wires-305.aspx
[23:47] <fsphil> couldn't quite go the distance
[23:47] <gonzo__> not ferling
[23:48] <gonzo__> (Have we not had this pun-thread recently?)
[23:48] <gonzo__> furlong
[23:49] <gonzo__> ugh, I'm drinking tesco value brandy. Comes in a plastic bottle....Only brought it for soaking fruit for xmas pud.
[23:50] <fsphil> brandy even sounds bad
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> gonzo__: Livin the dream!
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[23:52] <gonzo__> I'm looking for a paper bag to drink it from and a convenient park bench
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[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Fun fact. Flour is 30p/kg. This is 4.02kWh. Or 7.5p/kWh. This is considerably cheaper than heating with electricity unless you're on night rates.
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> ^tesco value
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[23:59] <gonzo__> a flour powered geneator
[23:59] Kodar (~Kodar@ham4.cc.fer.hr) left irc:
[23:59] <gonzo__> sounds a dangerous, but fun project
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Naah - flour generator would be more expensive - but for heat - it almost makes sense.
[00:00] --- Mon Dec 23 2013