highaltitude.log.20131221

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[00:17] <solarballoonman> Ok, no reply. So is £300 a good enough amount of cash, to do it all yourself?
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> Ish, yes, plenty
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> Including video camera of some sort.
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> Possibly not including the radio reciever that you'll need to get it back
[00:18] <solarballoonman> have you done a flight then?
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> No, but I've contemplated one.
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:pre_launch_checklist
[00:20] <mfa298> There's potentially a few people that can help but the sensible ones are probably asleep ;)
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> in general
[00:20] <solarballoonman> Ok. Looking at doing one for another forum, I go on. Will take a soft toy, with thier logo, to be videoed.
[00:21] <solarballoonman> mfa298 will be on early, later today. Hope to catch Dave and others, to see what they say.
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[00:23] <mfa298> radio tracker should be able to be build fairly cheaply if you go down the arduino route, and you may always find someone would lend you a pre-built one as backup.
[00:23] <mfa298> plenty of good guides on the wiki for doing that - see the links that SpeedEvil gave as a starting point.
[00:24] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> Do _NOT_ rely on a mobile phone tracker as your sole tracker.
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> Well - at least not SMS
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> in principle, there is no reason that some phones shouldn't be quite usable hooking a 433 transmitter to the audio out
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> Just nobodies done it yet
[00:25] <solarballoonman> ok. IF I can get one of the members onboard, with the project, (might) be able to get hold of a small millitary tracking system. :O
[00:27] <solarballoonman> or see if any member would 'hire' one out for the flight.
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> solarballoonman: Where are you?
[00:28] <solarballoonman> near Wellingborough Northants.
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[00:35] <solarballoonman> Looking at asking Santa Pod, to use as launch site. Ex airfield, no trees for at least 1/4 mile from the dragstrip. Ideal, as far as I can see.
[00:36] <solarballoonman> also fairly central, so less chance of a 'wet' landing. :)
[00:38] <mfa298> it well worth running some predictions to see where it's likely to land, make sure it's not too close to airports, cities etc.
[00:39] <solarballoonman> true. Won't be happening till sometime in 2014 though.
[00:41] <Willdude123> Hi
[00:41] <solarballoonman> Night all.
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[00:49] <Willdude123_> Oh fudge
[00:50] <Willdude123_> I racked up $50 of debt to digitalocean
[00:50] <Willdude123_> I don't think I legally owe it
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> In what case?
[00:51] <Willdude123_> I got a tenner of free credit so decided to play with a very high spec server
[00:51] <Willdude123_> I left it on
[00:51] <Willdude123_> And forgot about it
[00:52] <Willdude123_> But I just deleted my account so I guess I just screwed them for $50 of server
[00:52] <mfa298> they'll potentially still have your details.
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> I'm interested why you don't think you legally owe it.
[00:53] <mfa298> as to what they do, probably depends on how much they care about $50
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[00:54] <Willdude123_> Maybe I do
[00:55] <Willdude123_> :-(
[00:55] <Willdude123_> Ah well
[00:55] <Willdude123_> Very YOLO, much don't care, such owe
[00:57] <mfa298> It's almost certain that you would owe it unless you can show that something they did is unfair trading. By creating an account / VPS you would have agreed to their terms which would normally include stuff about paying for the resources you use.
[00:57] <mfa298> As to whether they pursue it, that's up to them.
[00:57] <Willdude123_> Doubt they will
[00:58] <Willdude123_> I am in a different country
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[01:02] <Willdude123_> They will only suspend for not paying invoices
[01:13] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[01:22] <Willdude123_> Why is HF mobile uncommon?
[01:23] <Willdude123_> Wrong channel
[01:24] <mfa298> consider the size of a 1/2 wave dipole for a HF band (or a 1/4 wave GP antenna)
[01:25] <Willdude123_> Huge
[01:25] <Willdude123_> Knew that
[01:25] <Willdude123_> Brain not active ATM :-P
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[01:28] <CR7AFM> hello
[01:29] <mfa298> Hi CR7AFM
[01:30] <CR7AFM> hi! are you in to h altitude ballons?
[01:30] <CR7AFM> :)
[01:31] <mfa298> that's the general reason people are in here
[01:32] <mfa298> although the majority are probably asleep at the moment
[01:32] <qyx_> uh, oh
[01:33] <CR7AFM> eheheh ok ok. I will not ask again! I'm from portugal and i will lunch one soon. around january to March
[01:34] <mfa298> good luck with it.
[01:34] <CR7AFM> thanks
[01:34] <mfa298> have you found the wiki (www.ukhas.org.uk) and tools (habhub.org)
[01:35] <CR7AFM> i'm here to get some answers
[01:35] <mfa298> we're usually good at answers
[01:35] <CR7AFM> like, how amount of air should I use
[01:36] <mfa298> not much air, Helium (He) or Hydrogen (H2) works better!
[01:37] <mfa298> there's a burst calculator on habhub.org which will tell you how much gas you need depending on balloon, payload and how fast you want it to go up
[01:37] <CR7AFM> ok thansk. will lokk at the pages
[01:37] <CR7AFM> sites
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[01:38] <mfa298> there's also a predictor there which will show you where it's likely to go with the current wind preditions
[01:38] <mfa298> how are you planning on tracking it (or is that something you're still looking at?)
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[01:40] <CR7AFM> yep, will track it on hamradio APRS
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[01:41] <CR7AFM> we will send also an hamradio repeater. that will have uplink and downlink
[01:41] <CR7AFM> how can i send information to http://spacenear.us/tracker/ ?
[01:42] <mfa298> I think there's a couple of other people who've done that as well who might be able to let you know how it's worked
[01:43] <mfa298> usually spacenear.us gets its data via dl-fldigi (fldigi with some extras) and uses a mode supported by that (in the UK we have to use ISM bands as Amateur radio isn't allowed airborne)
[01:44] <mfa298> but it's possible to get the data imported from aprs.fi
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2013/12/19/chinese-lunar-rover-finds-no-evidence-of-american-moon-landings/
[01:44] <CR7AFM> oooh ok ok
[01:44] <qyx_> the flag was destroyed by wind
[01:45] <mfa298> if you want the data imported from aprs.fi it's usually best to ask in #habhub a day or so before launch (and probably remind people just before launch)
[01:46] <CR7AFM> will anounce it alllllll around :)
[01:46] <mfa298> SpeedEvil: Chinese are obviously using a different fake moon to the USA/Russia
[01:49] <mfa298> CR7AFM: one thing to check is that your gps module is suitable, most cut out at 18km or lower, ballons usually go over 30km
[01:53] <CR7AFM> i just bought this: gtpa013 (P6H071327) do you recognizes
[02:02] <CR7AFM> ok people, see you later. thanks for the help. will come again soon
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[05:11] <MLow> alright im back
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[05:27] <tweetBot> @daveake: Almost all the details wrong but still worth watching this Bloomberg clip of Babbage #raspberrypi #UKHAS http://t.co/PsLROou2NZ
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[08:15] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
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[09:16] <Herman_> Good morning all
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[09:18] <Herman_> he Maxell
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[09:20] <Maxell> hello Herman_
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[10:07] <ibanezmatt13> Am I right in thinking this Li-Po charger powers the load whilst charging and while not? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11231
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Looks like it
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> right, excellent thanks
[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Watch out for any current limits however, it only charges up to 100ma so it might cut-out rather then limit.
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[10:16] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Although the spec says 500mA the write-up says 100mA before using other pins ??
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[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> strange
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> I could just avoid any problems by not allowing the load to be turned on whilst charging
[10:24] <jcoxon> most lipo charges allow for charging and load
[10:24] <jcoxon> at the same time
[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> ah right. I watched a video by that mad electronics guy on Youtube and there looked like a lot more to it, made be a bit doubtful
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[10:27] <jcoxon> so something like a max1555 if you look at teh datasheet
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[10:28] <jcoxon> you can connect the battery and the load in series
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, that sounds perfect. I'll take a look
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> jcoxon, I did this a while back usinhg the Max1555: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oc2xu04qs1jpkc0/Bike.png
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> I did it based on the datasheet but I was never confident enough to implement it as I have no experience with charging circuits
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> I know believe that it wouldn't work :P
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> now*
[10:30] <jcoxon> so yeah the VIN from the max1555 goes to the lipo and then the 3.3v regulator
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, so it was ok then :)
[10:31] <jcoxon> therefore if the charger isn't activated then the lipo supplies the regulator
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> and if the charger is activated?
[10:31] <jcoxon> and if the charger does get power (VBUS) it'll charge the lipo and supply the regulator
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> perfect jcoxon, thank you very much!
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[10:51] <jcoxon> anyone got any launches planned?
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[10:56] <fsphil> I've got a payload waiting to go but predictions for the next week are horrible
[10:56] <fsphil> unless someone wants to head up to the scottish highlands and track it :)
[10:57] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've asked for launch permission next weekend
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[10:57] <nats`> hi boyz
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[10:58] <fsphil> nice, hopefully it'll be a bit calmer
[10:58] <fsphil> unless you're hoping it goes really far?
[10:58] <jcoxon> fsphil, want to try out my new teensy based payload
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[11:00] <fsphil> nice. get your uart problem sorted?
[11:03] <jcoxon> not yet
[11:03] <jcoxon> going to do some investigation this morning
[11:03] <jcoxon> as it all seems a bit odd
[11:03] <jcoxon> lat/lon work fine
[11:04] <jcoxon> it just the time field
[11:09] <fsphil> odd
[11:09] <fsphil> what's it doing?
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[12:04] <jcoxon> fsphil, so it occasionally gets stuck reporting 44:00:00
[12:07] <fsphil> a really late night
[12:07] <fsphil> is the packet saying that or something going wrong in the parsing?
[12:08] <jcoxon> well its odd as its identical code to what i use normally on my other payloads
[12:08] <jcoxon> i was wondering if the GPS isn't responding quick enough
[12:09] <fsphil> possibly. it takes up to 1 second for my ubx to respond to requests
[12:10] <fsphil> which is annoying when querying it for multiple things
[12:10] <fsphil> is the response passing the crc test?
[12:13] <jcoxon> just setting it up to report if it fails
[12:13] <jcoxon> hmmmm putting in a small delay before polling time seems to be working a bit better
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[12:17] <fsphil> might be worth flushing the uart buffer
[12:17] <fsphil> before sending a new command
[12:19] <Upu> that domino code has been txing all morning with no problems :/
[12:19] <fsphil> the avr has a three byte buffer, the teensy probably has a bigger one
[12:19] <Upu> btw fsphil I tried to use that thor code
[12:19] <fsphil> fail?
[12:19] <Upu> gives some really odd compile errors
[12:19] <fsphil> ah
[12:19] <Upu> "vector 14"
[12:19] <Upu> declaring ISR
[12:20] <fsphil> are your other ISR declariations #ifdef'ed out?
[12:20] <Upu> yeah none of my code in there
[12:21] <Upu> just tried to get it to compile
[12:21] <Upu> as is
[12:21] <Upu> before I started integrating my crap :)
[12:23] <fsphil> can you paste the full error?
[12:23] <Upu> sure 1 sec
[12:23] <jcoxon> Upu, this might blow your mind but i've got some interrupt RTTY code working
[12:23] <jcoxon> who would have thought...
[12:23] <Upu> woah jcoxon :)
[12:23] <fsphil> </neo>
[12:23] <Upu> you go easy now :)
[12:23] <Upu> thats the only code of mine I'm happy with :)
[12:24] <jcoxon> well i started from scratch so i could get my head around it
[12:24] <Upu> yup its a very very good idea
[12:24] <Upu> as I'm finding out with the SI + DominoEX
[12:24] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/rxSsixWK
[12:24] <jcoxon> and it currently doesn't tx continously
[12:24] <Upu> set up the string within the ISR
[12:24] <jcoxon> but when it is txing its using the interrupts for timing
[12:25] <Upu> line 132 : ISR(TIMER0_COMPA_vect)
[12:25] <fsphil> multiple definitions
[12:25] <fsphil> oooh
[12:25] <fsphil> arduino
[12:26] <Upu> I can't find any other declarations of ISR
[12:26] <fsphil> it uses timer0
[12:26] <Upu> oh yes that
[12:26] <Upu> oh
[12:26] <jcoxon> i'm down to my last ublox gps module :-(
[12:27] <Upu> I know somewhere you can get some more
[12:27] <fsphil> might just be a simple matter of changing all the references from 0 to 1
[12:27] <Upu> hmm ok trying
[12:28] <Upu> the new chip antenna boards are on 0.8mm PCB btw
[12:28] <Upu> 0.5g less
[12:28] <Upu> :)
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[12:31] <jcoxon> Upu, awesome - can squeeze so much more on now :-p
[12:31] <Upu> :)
[12:32] <jcoxon> fsphil, i increased the timeout for the polling and added some small delays and its much more stable now
[12:33] <Upu> ironically it was an American who asked for them on 0.8mm
[12:33] <Upu> right best walk my dog before it pee's it down
[12:33] <Upu> bbs
[12:34] <jcoxon> its raining here
[12:35] <fsphil> about to here from the look of the radar
[12:38] <jcoxon> i'm enjoying working on these teensy
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[12:46] <fsphil> I was hoping to have got one to play with over the holiday
[12:47] <fsphil> didn't arrive in time
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[12:49] <jcoxon> 3.0 or 3.1?
[12:49] <fsphil> 3.1
[12:50] <jcoxon> jealous
[12:51] <fsphil> just hope it goes better than the stm32
[12:52] <jcoxon> haha
[12:52] <jcoxon> cmsis is built in i think
[12:56] <fsphil> fedora seem to have an arm gcc compiler packaged now
[12:56] <jcoxon> i'm using the teensyduino package
[12:56] <jcoxon> so its a modified version of the arduino IDE
[12:57] <jcoxon> today would be a good floater launch day if the weather was better
[12:57] <jcoxon> as its the shortest day so the longest night period
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[12:57] <fsphil> yea launching anything but a small balloon would be a bit tricky
[12:57] <fsphil> the wind is calming a bit here
[12:58] <Willdude123> Can FSTV be decoded with a PC?
[12:58] <Willdude123> Or a conventional radio?
[12:58] <Willdude123> Well, a combination of the two
[12:58] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/castorbay/
[12:58] <fsphil> yikes
[12:59] <fsphil> no chance with a conventional radio
[12:59] <Willdude123> Well, I don't mean commercial
[12:59] <fsphil> an analogue fstv signal will have about 5-7MHz bandwidth
[12:59] <Willdude123> I don't mean consumer radio.
[13:00] <Willdude123> I mean amateur radio
[13:00] <Willdude123> Do you need to use an actual tv?
[13:00] <fsphil> me too
[13:00] <fsphil> depends how it's transmitted I guess
[13:00] <fsphil> if the signal is FM you can probably use an old analogue satellite receiver
[13:02] <fsphil> + something to shift the frequency into a range the receiver can work at
[13:02] <zyp> FSTV as in normal analog TV?
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[13:03] <fsphil> I don't think any amateur tv stuff uses VSB like the old commercial broadcasts (I think that's what it's called?)
[13:04] <zyp> I don't know amateur stuff :)
[13:05] <zyp> but I was playing around with a standard analog TV signal from an old VCR a week ago, hooked to my bladerf
[13:06] <fsphil> nice!
[13:06] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/574ag.png <- looks like they skimped on the modulator and just did full AM instead of VSB there
[13:06] <fsphil> good capture
[13:06] <fsphil> the filter would probably have been the most expensive part
[13:07] <fsphil> wouldn't be too difficult to capture and render that
[13:07] <fsphil> at least without colour
[13:08] <zyp> there are already some modules for gnuradio that's supposed to do that
[13:08] <zyp> along with an example for USRP
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[13:34] <jcoxon> bbl
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[13:58] <junghoon2lee> Hi, there
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[14:03] <mfa298> hello junghoon2lee
[14:04] <junghoon2lee> I have initiated a project and preparing the first launch. At this moment, I have no experience, but I am wondering if I can to add my project homepage to http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:projects.
[14:04] <junghoon2lee> Are there anyone who knows how to get permission to add the project? Any help would be appreciated.
[14:05] <mfa298> someone in here (although I cant remember who is able to) will need to give you permissions on the wiki if you want to edit stuff.
[14:06] <junghoon2lee> oh, thank you for the info.
[14:07] <junghoon2lee> perhaps ,,, I should wait at this timeline :-)
[14:08] <mfa298> if you hang around someone that can do it should appear.
[14:08] <junghoon2lee> ok ;-)
[14:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Probably Upu is who you need for access to the Wiki
[14:09] <junghoon2lee> oh! ok, got it. thank you ;-)
[14:11] <Upu> whats your username junghoon2lee ?
[14:12] <junghoon2lee> I am not used to use IRC, (sorry), perhaps you mean by "username" is User ID of IRC, right?
[14:13] <Upu> on the wiki
[14:15] <junghoon2lee> I am currently registering.
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[14:17] <Upu> ok register then let me know what your usernamei s
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[14:18] <junghoon2lee> ok thank you,, :-) I will let you know soon.
[14:20] <junghoon2lee> my username is junghoon2lee
[14:21] <Upu> done
[14:22] <junghoon2lee> Great!! thank you so much ;-
[14:27] <junghoon2lee> Are there any rules for adding a project to the UKHAS project page?
[14:27] <junghoon2lee> I mean, policy.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> In general, illegal stuff is frowned upon, and I wouldn't be surprised if it got nuked.
[14:27] <Upu> keep it on topic
[14:27] <junghoon2lee> k
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> But comply with your local laws, be reasonably safe, and on topic, and it's fine.
[14:27] <Upu> no spamming links keep it clean
[14:28] <junghoon2lee> k
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Reasonable links aren't a bad thing.
[14:28] <Upu> sorry "spam links"
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[14:28] <junghoon2lee> k
[14:29] <junghoon2lee> It is definitely not spam links
[14:30] <junghoon2lee> and definitely not illegal stuff..
[14:30] <junghoon2lee> the project URL is http://drone2space.org/
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Is that legal in south korea?
[14:32] <junghoon2lee> yeah
[14:33] <junghoon2lee> I mean need some confirm.
[14:33] <junghoon2lee> but basically it is legal.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> It's not legal in the UK - as you can't fly unpiloted drones in that manner.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> But reports from different legalities is fine.
[14:34] <junghoon2lee> first launch, I will not bring drones to the sky.
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[14:34] <junghoon2lee> just follow the same procedures on UKHAS
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> The basic thing we really, really don't want to encourage is active lawbreaking in the UK or other countries, for obvious regulatory reasons.
[14:34] <adamgreig> "bigdata cloud", really
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[14:34] <junghoon2lee> it is kind of vision.
[14:34] <junghoon2lee> not the current real thing.
[14:35] <junghoon2lee> Cause I have no experience on flying something on the near space,
[14:35] <junghoon2lee> First step will be following UKHAS steps accordingly.
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[14:36] <SpeedEvil> What are you actually trying to do - solar recharged heavier than air craft?
[14:36] <mfa298> that cubli video needs more cake
[14:36] <junghoon2lee> I just want to collect data (sensor data) from the near space.
[14:38] <junghoon2lee> At this stage, I will not use drone things, just follow UKHAS procedure and see if I can gather data
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> Probably sane first step.
[14:38] <junghoon2lee> yeah, right. exactly same.
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> For solar recharging drones, at altitude, you run into unfortunate scale issues.
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> Power goes up as area.
[14:38] <junghoon2lee> yeah, I see
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> But drag goes up as sqrt(area) - to a degree anyway
[14:39] <junghoon2lee> There are tones of issues, and that's one of the next issue.
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> Which means that large craft are _lots_ easier
[14:39] <junghoon2lee> At this stage, I will focus on making things up to near space and collect data.
[14:40] <chrisstubbs> junghoon2lee, use the ublox not the adafruit ultimate gps
[14:40] <junghoon2lee> oh, ok
[14:40] <junghoon2lee> Adafruit can not receive over 27km.. according to the datasheet.
[14:41] <chrisstubbs> ublox is rated to 50km, adafruit is to 24km or so
[14:41] <chrisstubbs> yeah exactly, not very high for HAB
[14:41] <junghoon2lee> ok, got it.. :-)
[14:42] <junghoon2lee> Thank you for the advice. ;-)
[14:45] <daveake> That's something we have plenty of here :)
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[14:58] <junghoon2lee> I just added "Project Shin Sae Gae" project to the UKHAS project list. "Shin Sae Gae" will be exactly same with UKHAS projects except for the launching site-South Korea, there will be no problem.
[15:00] <mfa298> the UK in UKHAS is getting increasingly more innacurate.
[15:00] <junghoon2lee> If you have any concerns, then let me know. Thank you for your help.
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: :)
[15:00] <fsphil> universal kingdom
[15:00] <x-f> unlimited kingdom
[15:00] <junghoon2lee> haha ;-)
[15:00] <junghoon2lee> unlimited.
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[15:04] <daveake> Try not to fly it over the border :p
[15:04] <fsphil> what could possibly go wrong
[15:04] <fsphil> oh yea, nuclear war
[15:04] <daveake> hah
[15:04] <daveake> Bliney fsphil, your country (well the other side of that border) sure knows how to rain
[15:05] <daveake> -n+m
[15:05] <fsphil> yes there's been a series of nasty showers coming in of the atlantic
[15:05] <fsphil> turning to snow overnight
[15:05] <fsphil> yay
[15:05] <daveake> lovely
[15:05] <daveake> it's cold enough already
[15:05] <fsphil> how long are you down there for?
[15:06] <daveake> fly back monday evening
[15:06] <daveake> my month so far https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1525708_10151848626542654_1350075814_n.jpg
[15:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> and not a balloon in sight!
[15:07] <fsphil> you missed a bit
[15:08] <fsphil> my month would be a single dot on that map so far
[15:08] <fsphil> time I had a holiday!
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[15:18] <junghoon2lee> daveake: yeah right, haha :-)
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[15:36] <cuddykid> had a call from police just... no idea what they've been doing all week as I practically had to give them the whole story again... anyway, this new person is going to try and get a request to ISP signed off as it seems likely it will lead to the person
[15:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Lets hope for some good luck ...
[15:39] <cuddykid> there seems to be a real lack of tech savvy police offers
[15:40] <K9JKM> Helpful if Officer Friendly is a bit smarter than the bad guys ...
[15:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not only police officers everybody in general ! We tend to forget that most people IT/Electronics is just magic ...
[15:40] <nats`> cuddykid I'm working for an isp
[15:40] <nats`> and it's pretty complicated
[15:40] <nats`> you have 3 type of request
[15:41] <nats`> immediate one from police or firemen when there are life in danger
[15:41] <nats`> instruction for investigation on high level crime or other things like drug
[15:41] <nats`> they are mandated by some officer
[15:41] <nats`> and last one the low level priority
[15:42] <nats`> each of them have different way to be filled
[15:46] <cuddykid> interesting, thanks for sharing nats`
[15:46] <cuddykid> guess this will be the lowest of the low
[15:46] <cuddykid> do you know roughly how long it takes for them to get back for low level ones? And I guess they reject a lot?
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[16:21] <nats`> cuddykid basically the ISP can't reject an official request
[16:21] <nats`> that's more the time passing on the police side
[16:21] <nats`> depending on their priorities
[16:21] <nats`> but if someone calls you back I think they are really on it
[16:21] <nats`> usually if they don't care you don't have news
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[16:44] <cuddykid> fingers crossed then!
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[17:08] <nats`> someone use cortex M4 ?
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[17:26] <LeoBodnar> Oh dear http://www.orau.org/ptp/library/accidents/la-13638.pdf
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> the shift supervisor deceived the radiation control supervisor into leaving the area and entered the room where the accident had occurred.
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> What- ever his actions, they caused a third excursion, larger than the first two, activating the alarm system in both buildings.
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[17:27] <LeoBodnar> The system consisted of the same plutonium sphere reflected, in this case, by beryllium. The top and final hemispherical beryllium shell was being slowly lowered into place; one edge was touching the lower beryllium hemisphere while the edge 180° away was resting on the tip of a screwdriver
[17:28] <nats`> I think I finally found the IDE I was seraching
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> As he withdrew his hand, the brick slipped and fell onto the center of the assembly, adding sufficient reflection to make the system superprompt critical.
[17:29] <nats`> nuclera bomb by accident ?
[17:30] <LeoBodnar> It was then decided to circum- vent the routine, tedious draining process and manually pour the remaining solution of 418 g U(90)/ l from the vessel (there are no records of the molarity of the solution).
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> They immediately noticed a flash (due to Cherenkov radiation), and simultaneously, fissile solution was violently ejected, reaching the ceiling about 5 m above.
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> Human race has no chance...
[17:32] <LeoBodnar> yeah, happens all the time
[17:38] Action: cm13g09 is attempting (and failing) to understand OAuth....
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[17:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah so what's your next payload LeoBodnar ?
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[17:52] <Laurenceb_> its quite worrying that i am by far the most sane person at work
[17:53] <Laurenceb_> in the new year we will start work on "acousto-optical poultry behaviour modification"
[17:53] <Laurenceb_> or in laymans terms, chicken disco
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[18:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: :)
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> More seriously - vision + sound + ... maybe lasers - if you can stop them biting each other - you've got a truly major market opportunity
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[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Also if you can do chicken ID, and tracking, and track individual chicken motions for health - again lots of money
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[18:31] <cm13g09> damnit - OAuth is so horribly complex :P
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[19:08] <solarballoonman> Hi, what sort of time does Daveake come on? That's if he's not doing something of course.
[19:09] <eroomde> whenever
[19:09] <eroomde> irc is not a shift-job
[19:11] <eroomde> he has been on and off today but i believe he's in ireland with work
[19:12] <eroomde> so might be having a happy time in the hotel bar
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[19:12] <eroomde> if you've a technical/proceedural question there's a good chance someone else will be able to answer it
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[19:15] <solarballoonman> ok. Will try the same question I asked late last night.. If a group of friends got the balloon, gas, parachute and soft toy (to be videoed), for a flight. How much would a member charge to 'run' the flight. I.e supply the payload box, tracking and camera. Aswell as tracking the flight.
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[19:16] <YO9ICT> Hello
[19:16] <solarballoonman> Of course the friends and myself would follow them in our own car.
[19:16] <eroomde> ah, that is definitely a question for individuals
[19:17] <eroomde> we used to charge £6k for such things, but that's when it was only really us doing it. I suspect the going rate is reduced now. You could probably find a teenager somewhere who would do it for not-very-much
[19:18] <solarballoonman> £6k OUCH!!
[19:18] <eroomde> yes, but as i say that's when hardly anyone could do this
[19:19] <eroomde> thankfully it's much easier now
[19:19] <YO9ICT> What equipment do you put on your ballons ?
[19:19] <eroomde> and the prices will have gone down accordingly
[19:19] <eroomde> YO9ICT: camera, press/temp sensors, GPS, radio
[19:19] <eroomde> as a sort of basic tracker
[19:19] <eroomde> and then you can go from there really
[19:20] <YO9ICT> And these are in one module ? or several ?
[19:20] <YO9ICT> I have heard that these are single-module with a weight about 30g... is that true?
[19:20] <eroomde> usually the GPS, radio, microcontroller and so on will be one single tracker PCB
[19:20] <eroomde> yes, it's not too hard to make a pcb with that equipment weight 30g
[19:21] <YO9ICT> oh, good. do you have any projects for that kind of a single tracker PCB ?
[19:21] <eroomde> the camera might be extra
[19:21] <eroomde> well, most people design and build their pcb
[19:21] <eroomde> so there are hundreds of projects around
[19:21] <eroomde> it's a simple and useful learning exercise
[19:22] <YO9ICT> Can you give me a starting link, schematic, I don't know..
[19:24] <eroomde> so the three main components are thus:
[19:24] <eroomde> 1) GPS, 2) Radio, 3) Microcontroller to convert the gps output into something that the radio can accept
[19:25] <eroomde> so the task is really to: 1) make the microcontroller talk to the GPS, 2) Make the microcontroller talk to the radio
[19:25] <eroomde> if you're new to all this, beginners quite like using the arduino platform as the microcontroller to do this
[19:25] <eroomde> the UKHAS wiki has a guide for those 2 steps with the arduino
[19:26] <YO9ICT> I assume the radio part should be something stable, such a PLL, not ordinary 433 MHz cheap transmitters
[19:26] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:26] <eroomde> a popular choice is the radiometrix ntx2
[19:27] <eroomde> this might be useful for getting the arduino to talk to the GPS
[19:27] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[19:28] <YO9ICT> Any estimate on the cost of a tracker like this?
[19:29] <eroomde> ~$100?
[19:29] <eroomde> probably less
[19:29] <eroomde> in just parts count
[19:30] <eroomde> perhaps nearer $50 even, just all the little bits add up
[19:30] <solarballoonman> Just found someone on the forum, thats planning to do the balloon flight, that has an arduino. :) hope I can get them onboard the 'programe'. Then we'll have all we need except the camera.
[19:30] <eroomde> which forum?
[19:31] <solarballoonman> uk fur.
[19:31] <eroomde> fur....
[19:31] <eroomde> like on animals?
[19:32] <YO9ICT> I have made a huge solar ballon from black trash bags and I want to launch a small android phone, with remote capabilities of GPS and photo camera over a internet connection
[19:33] <eroomde> you might have problems with the phone at high altitude, if you wish to use the cell network
[19:33] <eroomde> the phones see too many cell towers at once and so get confused/blocked
[19:33] <eroomde> it almost always doesn;t work
[19:34] <eroomde> it can however operate as a standalone recording device, and people have done that
[19:34] <YO9ICT> This type of baloon never reaches the altitude of a helium one
[19:34] <eroomde> what altitude does it reach?
[19:34] <eroomde> anything above 1-2km will cause problems, probably
[19:34] <solarballoonman> *ermoode* Yes it's a forum for fursuiters, (costume wearers/ mascot suiters)
[19:35] <eroomde> oh wow!
[19:35] <eroomde> nice
[19:35] <YO9ICT> it will certainly go above 1 km...
[19:35] <eroomde> well, if you have access to someone with some electronics skills then it'll be massively cheaper to go that route
[19:36] <eroomde> and more fun
[19:37] <solarballoonman> *YO9ICT* large solar balloon launched in romania, reached 60k+ feet and had to be collapsed, due to it climbing to fast. Beleve there is a video of the launch on youtube.
[19:37] <WillTablet> Wow. I think If found a proprietary sdk, whose authors aren't complete dicks about royaltieds
[19:38] <solarballoonman> *ermoode* true. Now I just have to get everything organised, for sometime next year.
[19:38] <eroomde> context WillTablet, if it's relevent.
[19:38] <eroomde> solarballoonman: cool
[19:39] <WillTablet> Should do a game where you have to chase a HAB
[19:39] <WillTablet> :-P
[19:39] <YO9ICT> I have electronic skills, but I don't know where I can find in my country that radio and gps modules
[19:39] <eroomde> which country?
[19:40] <YO9ICT> romania
[19:40] <eroomde> upu on this channel will sell you both
[19:40] <YO9ICT> :)
[19:41] <eroomde> Upu is your man
[19:41] <YO9ICT> What do you do if you lose radio contact with the balloon ? I assume you need to track it full time
[19:42] <eroomde> yes. so one of the strengths of our system is that lots of amateurs listen to your balloons and send in telemetry strings
[19:42] <eroomde> so for some of the flights that float across europe, we rely on radio-amateurs all over the continent
[19:43] <eroomde> if you lose it, you lose it
[19:43] <eroomde> for normal up-down (rather than floating) balloon flights, there is a strong emphasis on chasing it in the car
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[19:43] <eroomde> and trying to get to the predicted landing site as quickly as possible
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[19:44] <solarballoonman> *YO9ICT* Not sure how high it went, but I've launched a small (6 bag) 'sausage' solar balloon. Had my e-mail address on a card tag. Was recoverd 60 miles (96.5km) away.
[19:44] <WillTablet> Did the police track down cuddykid's payload?
[19:45] <eroomde> I believe not
[19:45] <solarballoonman> so expect to travel some distance, if you have a tracker on your balloon.
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> the police are contacting the ISP
[19:45] <WillTablet> Don't the isps only have to give info over when there is a court order?
[19:46] <YO9ICT> I have launched exactly one year ago a small solar balloon with a 433 MHz beep-beep tracker and, fortunately, we have recovered it! We started chasing it in the car and after a while some clounds appeared and it fell down into the snow, with the tracker still working :)
[19:46] <eroomde> nice!
[19:49] <YO9ICT> Believe me, I have made several design of 144 and 433 MHz transmitters to reduce the weight, but the solar balloons have very limited lift capability
[19:49] <WillTablet> There's nothing like idly waiting for chkdsk to continue on a December Saturday night
[19:50] <YO9ICT> Tired of reducing the weight, I made a huge one, I believe 128 or so 60 litre trash bags...I think it can lift 200 to 400 grams
[19:50] <eroomde> you should watch the talk on solar balloons from the last UKHAS conference
[19:50] <WillTablet> *finish
[19:51] <YO9ICT> eroomde, any link to that?
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[19:51] <eroomde> unfortunately the batc.tv website has a uselessly crap url system
[19:51] <eroomde> so
[19:52] <eroomde> batc.tv
[19:52] <eroomde> -> archives
[19:52] <eroomde> -> hab2013
[19:52] <WillTablet> Eroomde what does it do?
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> arko knows how to get direct urls on batc.tv site
[19:52] <eroomde> ok arko ping
[19:53] <arko> http://batc.tv/channel.php?cat=HAB+2013&ch=1&id=1167
[19:53] <eroomde> and assuming that doesn't work, then find the talk on solarballoons in the dropdown menu on the left
[19:53] <eroomde> cool
[19:54] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[19:54] <eroomde> would be nice to mirror the talks on youtube in the future, unless the batc website gets substantially better
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> lol [19:03] <eroomde> arko: how did you direct-link to videos on batch?
[19:55] <mfa298> eroomde: I believe there are plans to improve the batc.tv site.
[19:55] <arko> if you look at the source you'll see the drop down has id numbers for each video
[19:55] <arko> the code allows the user to define this in the url variables
[19:55] <mfa298> (seeing that we've proved the chat feature is an unsecured mess)
[19:55] <arko> really really not safe code, but hey it works :P
[19:56] <WillTablet> 0 mbps upload
[19:56] <WillTablet> How is that possible?
[19:57] <eroomde> because of all the bandwidth being used to spam #highaltitude with OT stuff
[19:58] <WillTablet> Sorry.
[19:58] <Upu> BUUUURRN
[19:59] <WillTablet> Lolwut?
[20:01] <WillTablet> Wait IRC uses negligible bandwidth
[20:02] <WillTablet> The most I would've used would probably be 100 bytes in the worst case
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[20:08] <arko> http://www.britishburnassociation.org/burns-units
[20:12] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
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[20:15] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
[20:16] <WillTablet> Sorry for poor interwebs again
[20:16] <WillTablet> Will switch to the client on my server
[20:17] <WillTablet> Oh internet too bad for SSH too
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[20:40] <maxdutka> hello
[20:42] <maxdutka> anybody can help me with one technical issue?
[20:43] <Upu> ask away
[20:43] Action: Reb-SM3ULC thinks
[20:45] <maxdutka> my frame look like this: $SP9RQA,73,19:03:07,02109.6682,4939.5675,00282,83,-1,99072,1.21*0EB0, but server parse latitude as 49.7,
[20:46] <maxdutka> server rounding latitude?
[20:49] <Upu> no just doesn't know how to deal with it
[20:49] <Upu> join #habhub and ask on there
[20:49] <maxdutka> thx
[20:49] <Upu> they'll be able to make a filter but be patient they aren't always on
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[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> ello
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[21:34] <jcoxon> if someone was to fly a 868mhz receiver would people have uplink capabilities with their current rigs and setups?
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[21:37] <mfa298> I doubt there's many (if any) able to tx on 868 with any real power.
[21:37] <eroomde> agreed, i was thinking about this the other day
[21:38] <mfa298> i suspect 868tx is pretty much limited to ism type devices.
[21:38] <eroomde> for all the tantalising options in IR2030 on 868 and 5GHz, the lack of people who can use it is the elephant in the room
[21:38] <fsphil> I'm setup here for it
[21:39] <fsphil> not that that helps :)
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[21:40] <jcoxon> 868 rx is easier
[21:40] <jcoxon> with all teh funcubes etc
[21:41] <jcoxon> so you could do 434 uplink and 868 downlink
[21:41] <eroomde> indeed
[21:41] <eroomde> though the sensitivity and selectivity of the dongles is so piss-poor
[21:41] <mfa298> that should be do able.
[21:42] <mfa298> and we seem to have a decent number of people with funcubes to rx now.
[21:42] <jcoxon> i've got a 868mhz rfm22
[21:42] <jcoxon> so you can put out 100mW
[21:43] <eroomde> it's 100mW is it?
[21:43] <eroomde> nice
[21:43] <eroomde> is that not quite some qualification like 1% duty cycle?
[21:43] <jcoxon> and IR 2030 allows 500mW
[21:43] <fsphil> duty limits?
[21:43] <fsphil> the 500mw one is 10%
[21:43] <mfa298> could do with a few more 868 flights so people can sort out antennas etc. (I spent half the last flight getting antennas working)
[21:43] <jcoxon> 90% listening
[21:43] <eroomde> ir2030 seems to allow the same freqs with lots of different powers *entirely* as a function of the application
[21:44] <jcoxon> i don't think the 10% duty is a realy issue
[21:45] <mfa298> even the really low power someone used a few months back on 868 seemed to work (a few mW I think as it allowed 100% duty)
[21:45] <jcoxon> we could also do 868 uplink using rfm22 + a little yagi
[21:45] <eroomde> yep
[21:45] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOVb-URgwT8
[21:45] <arko> ohh 1960's science films
[21:45] <eroomde> seems like we all happily ignore the eirp thing
[21:45] <jcoxon> so i should use my 868 for my next flight
[21:45] <arko> "say there little timmy, do you know about ROCKET ENGINES?"
[21:45] <jcoxon> people would be interested in something
[21:45] <arko> "gee golly sir"
[21:46] <arko> ah crap, wrong channel, sorry
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> awesome arko
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> never will be like that again
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> getting a rocket running in just five years or less
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[21:47] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[21:47] <eroomde> right am off
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[22:08] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[22:09] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[22:14] <WillTablet> Hi
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> arm asm is addictive
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> i now have 8 bit gps down to 2.6clks/sample/channel on cortex m4
[22:18] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> still not sure if this is practical - most people like to use narrow band frequency blockers
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[22:19] <BrainDamage> adds r4, Laurenceb, r4
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> but i havent had any issues with my se4120
[22:19] <BrainDamage> that kind of additive?
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> +c
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> yes yes yes Laurenceb_
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: heh
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> the weird thing is at 8bit is twice as fast as 1 bit
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> countones sucks on arm
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> unless you have NEON
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> cortex A8 with NEON would laugh at software defined gps
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> what's countones?
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> counts the number of set bits in a word
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: A function to return the number of 1s in a word
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> lookup table
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> so you can use XOR to do stuff
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Useful to check correlations
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> an 4GB table?
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> bytes separately
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> thatd be very slow
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> 4 different bytes to process
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> and separate
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> im using SMMLA to add bytes
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> well - 8 bit complex bytes, i.e. real and imaginary nibbles
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> any assembler is addictive
[22:24] <LeoBodnar> within an hour you know whether your hw can do what you want power-wise or not
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> then there is a hardcoded immediate pool used to do prompt and early-late I and Q all inside a couple of SMMLA instructions
[22:25] <LeoBodnar> C++ will take few weeks
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[22:26] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: does your ARM chip have some programmed logic?
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> no
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> STM32F4
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> the annoying thing is that hardcoded is over 500kB
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> for all 32sats
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> about 690kB
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> guess it fits so shrug
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: That's not really true - algorithmic optimisation can buy you orders of magnitude and be very unclear at the asm or C level
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> i was wondering about http://swift-nav.com/piksi.html
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> if the firmware could be ported to use an arm asm correlator
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Seems likely
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sciencezero.org/index.php?title=ARM:_Count_ones_%28bit_count%29
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> ^horribly slow
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking way earlier of just batching into 8 bit chunks
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> thats what im doing :P
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> And lookups
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> well - on discovery board with simulated data
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> mask off nibbles to real and complex bytes
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> then 32 bit MAC with a hardcoded constant
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[22:34] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly hardcoded constants have to be loaded via an immediate pool
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> which slows it down a little, but miles faster than single bit
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> and you can have a reasonable number of bits right through the DSP
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[23:18] <Laurenceb_> muhaha
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> code size is tiny
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> run from ram and DMA the relevant constant into the immediate pools from flash
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> What $ processor are you talking of - $3ish?
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> a bit more, about $9
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/cortex_m4/LPC4370FET100.html is $9 :)
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats nice
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> The board may be >$9 though
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[23:47] <Laurenceb_> ok i rewrote it to use a loop
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> 170bytes of code excluding PRN lookup tables
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> 2.85clks/sample/channel
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> and 128kB of lookup tables, not at all bad
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[23:54] <qyx_> Laurenceb_: doing sdr gps?
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> maybe
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> playing with asm atm
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[00:00] --- Sun Dec 22 2013