highaltitude.log.20131216

[00:00] <SpeedEvil> There seems to be lightning on the image
[00:00] <Willdude123> Do antenna rotators work on both axis?
[00:00] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: They can work on all three
[00:00] <SpeedEvil> One is more common
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[07:48] <arko> http://www.firstmenonthemoon.com/
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[09:45] <Maxell> pong
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[09:48] <fsphil> wasn't me
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[10:23] <nats`> hi boyz
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[10:25] <DL1SGP1> salut nats`
[10:25] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[10:30] <cuddykid> the thief visited my page "HAB Products" a couple of times.. guess he/she was trying to find out how much the stuff is worth :P
[10:34] <nats`> let's ddos his IP :D
[10:34] <nats`> no moar da internet
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[10:37] <cuddykid> nothing appeared on gumtree/ebay yet
[10:38] <cuddykid> gopro has a reasonably distinctive feature apart from mud marks - side door thing to ports + sd slot is missing
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[10:40] <nats`> cuddykid put an automatic research on ebay
[10:40] <nats`> (if not already done)
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[10:51] <Maxell> cuddykid: you got robbed?
[10:52] <Maxell> All hab supplies gone?
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[10:52] <Maxell> Clearly not some random homeless jukie it seems
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[10:58] <mfa298> Maxell: someone took the payload electronics (camera, trackers) but left the broken box, parachute and balloon remanants.
[10:59] <mfa298> I think the assumption is it was some local walking by
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[11:00] <nats`> I suggest to destroy the area with nuclear strike until they surrender !
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[11:21] <craag> Willdude123: pong
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[11:23] <Maxell> mfa298: oh, found the payload without electronics?
[11:23] <Maxell> bummer!!
[11:24] <mfa298> Maxell: yeah, the person who went to collect just found the broken box, parachute and most of the balloon.
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[11:25] <gonzo___> a gopro falling from the sky. They must have thjought it was a gift from the gods
[11:25] <craag> Maxell: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rinioth/11369034225/in/photostream/
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[11:25] <eroomde> sensitive analogue electronics joy: curios 10mV offset from the gain stage, goes up to 20mV if you hold the multimeter leads
[11:25] <MLow> haha i just used my nexus 5 to do the tap and pay thing
[11:26] <fsphil> magic hands eroomde
[11:26] <MLow> made me all gigly
[11:26] <gonzo___> lesson for the rest of us. Engrave ID marks etc on things like that. Amy not stop it being robbed, but reduces the chance that someone can sell it on afterwards
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[11:27] <mfa298> or aim to have a recovery team in place to see it come down.
[11:28] <eroomde> i quite favour the latter, or at least launch on a day when you can launch, pack up, and get to the recovery spot in advance
[11:29] <eroomde> i.e. not too windy a day
[11:29] <gonzo___> would be better. Though actually being there in time is rare for most flights so far
[11:29] <fsphil> pack before launching
[11:30] <eroomde> we had a few flights where we saw it come down once we'd got our act together and written the predictor
[11:30] <eroomde> from novas 10 onwards
[11:30] <eroomde> the predictor used to run live in the car with the gribs downloaded in advance
[11:31] <fsphil> we need to go back to that
[11:31] <fsphil> spacenear is cool but horrible over 3g
[11:31] <MLow> is the predictor accurate, i mean if you put good numbers in, and things happen close to on-time, does it show a reasonable accurate landing?
[11:31] <gonzo___> I've not flown anything that I was prepared to chase
[11:31] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/images/tracker.png
[11:31] <craag> fsphil: habmap :)
[11:31] <eroomde> this was the app that fergus wrote
[11:32] <eroomde> 2008, as you can see
[11:32] <eroomde> distance and bearing to the balloon, prediction running every telem packet, all the nice things
[11:32] <mfa298> MLow: it can be pretty decent if you give it good data (up to date wind data, right ascent, descent rates etc)
[11:32] <mfa298> the trick is getting good data into it (which isn't always so easy)
[11:32] <craag> I wrote an app a while back that served a spacenearus clone from localhost with stored OSM tiles, grabbed position data from habitat, prediction data fom spacenearus/
[11:33] <MLow> so if you are out in the field and you see it's rising faster than thought, update it?
[11:33] <craag> Never got around to using it on a flight though, and it could be rewritten a lot better :P
[11:33] <eroomde> having everything in-car is supremely useful
[11:33] <MLow> then as it's falling update the descent rate? i have always been confused by that because do you put an average? or what do you put in to be most accurate, because where the air is thinner it falls faster right?
[11:34] <fsphil> the spacenear predictor will use the live values
[11:34] <eroomde> the outside world and the DL is awesome and all, but i'd still prefer to be completely self-contained as a chase team
[11:34] <fsphil> so once it bursts it's using the actual descent rate, so should be pretty accurate
[11:34] <MLow> spacenear.us works great on my 4g but...not on anything less
[11:34] <eroomde> ability to live predict in the car, ability to df in the car, etc
[11:34] <MLow> in the us we seem partial to aprs
[11:35] <eroomde> MLow: the falling rate has a model of the atmosphere
[11:35] <eroomde> i have a little command line utility i wrote called 'dv'
[11:35] <craag> MLow: Try http://habmap.philcrump.co.uk/ btw
[11:35] <eroomde> for descent velocity
[11:35] <eroomde> you put in an altitude and a descent rate, it gives you the sea level descent rate
[11:35] <eroomde> it's quite useful
[11:35] <mfa298> spacenear.us is fine if you've got a decent 3G signal, the problem is that most people aim to land away from populated areas and airports where the 3g signal isn't so good.
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[11:36] <craag> Matt's app is rather nice for that as well.
[11:36] <eroomde> http://pastebin.com/0hFPqZUb
[11:36] <craag> DOesn't do offline prediction (afaik), but covers all other bases.
[11:36] <eroomde> it's trivial but surprisingly useful
[11:36] <mattbrejza> craag: it downloads the snus prediction
[11:37] <mattbrejza> but i do have a prototype offline predictor
[11:37] <mattbrejza> that i have yet cba to implement on the app
[11:37] <MLow> 50SET?
[11:37] <craag> mattbrejza: That's what I thought.. now where do I put in a feature req? :P
[11:37] <MLow> 50SAT*
[11:37] <craag> ah
[11:37] <fsphil> I never quite figured out how to grab the wind data
[11:37] <mattbrejza> because the two halfs of the flight path are basically the same, you can use the up to predict the down
[11:37] <fsphil> putting the predictor in habhound would be simple after that
[11:39] <fsphil> with habitat holding the global data these days, might be better to query that instead of noaa
[11:39] <craag> mattbrejza: Oh yeah! Will only be able to predict after burst though
[11:39] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/NzZv7fT http://imgur.com/zMsaR7g
[11:39] <mattbrejza> purple is predicted from the burst point
[11:39] <craag> oh nice!
[11:40] <craag> With that re-mapping from each live data point coming in, you probably wouldn't notice the difference from the CUSF model.
[11:41] <craag> (while chasing), obv you would comparing afterwards.
[11:41] <mattbrejza> yea you should be able to track just as well without internet
[11:41] <mattbrejza> in fact mst of the chasing ive done has been without internet
[11:41] <craag> sounds awesome to me, I take it you haven't found anyone else to continue dev of the app?
[11:42] <mattbrejza> havnt really looked :P
[11:42] <craag> I've gone the other direction, GSM magmount on the car, rely on internet... it's a bit stressful sometimes!
[11:42] <craag> bbl
[11:42] <mattbrejza> i might look at it over xmas
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[11:45] <mfa298> could always go for low tech, as long as the payload sends decimal degrees, read of distance and bearing from dl-fldigi and use a compass to travel in the right direction (although you need to be reasonably close to it landing so you get those late positions)
[11:46] <mattbrejza> for me using a laptop is too much hassle :P
[11:46] <mattbrejza> at least android stuff is java so i can just repackage it into a pc version
[11:47] <mfa298> well anything that works out distance and bearing would work (I cant remember if you had that in your app)
[11:47] <mfa298> although you still need the rough prediction so you know where to head to find it.
[11:47] <mattbrejza> na it kinda needs a compass mode
[11:47] <mattbrejza> but it has a map...
[11:49] <gonzo___> iave done a couple of recoveries, but getting the rough position on the map, drive to that. Then picked up the telem and got a final fix. Put that lat/lon in the gps and just walk around trying to get the numbers to match
[11:49] <gonzo___> in the pitch dark on one occasion. Almost treading on the payload
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[11:53] <MLow> lol
[11:54] <MLow> that makes me want to write like a lot of softare to never have to do that
[11:54] <MLow> gonzo___: rtty?
[11:54] <mattbrejza> software already exists :)
[11:54] <mattbrejza> (to some extent)
[11:54] <MLow> mattbrejza: for what kind of data?
[11:55] <mattbrejza> well tbh putting the gps coords into a compass/gps type app works fine
[11:55] <mfa298> for things using the UKHAS standard string there's plenty of software (rtty, DominoEX, Contessia)
[11:55] <mattbrejza> but ther eis a map thing for rtty on android/ios
[11:55] <MLow> aprs here
[11:55] <mattbrejza> well map thing for anything in habitat/snus
[11:56] <MLow> but i want to do a rtty, it will just be me decoding though, to the best of my knowledge theres no rtty network here
[11:56] <mattbrejza> tbh thats all you need really
[11:56] <MLow> PLENTY of aprs digi/i-gates around here though
[11:56] <mattbrejza> if you cant hear your rtty then noone else will
[11:56] <MLow> i think rtty on 144.390 is frowned on
[11:57] <mfa298> hamgps on android has been a popular app for something you just stick lat/long into and it shows you how far to travel in which direction
[11:57] <mattbrejza> do rtty on 144.400 then :P
[11:57] <mfa298> you just need to read the right bits off the screen
[11:57] <MLow> i've only got the one radio
[11:58] <mattbrejza> btw craag have you got round to doing a side by side test of the max7s yet?
[11:58] <MLow> mattbrejza: atm i cant even reliably decode my aprs from 2 feet away
[11:58] <SIbot> In real units: 2 ft = 0.61 m
[11:58] <mfa298> you could always write your code with no antenna on the radio module for rtty/domino etc. and change the module for flight, I think the ntx2b is similar pinout to the hx1
[11:59] <mattbrejza> isnt that an excuse to use rtty? :P
[12:00] <MLow> not sure it is a good enough excuse for the xyl
[12:00] <mfa298> MLow: you just need to work on getting more amateurs involved, that's all that's happened in Europe.
[12:04] <MLow> i have no issue with it jsut being me decoding
[12:04] <MLow> i plan to have a few chase cars
[12:04] <MLow> right now the xyl isn't on the same level with my purchases as of lately
[12:05] <mattbrejza> well do you have a ssb rx?
[12:05] <mattbrejza> if so then the extra cost is minimal really
[12:06] <mfa298> and if not, the rtl-sdr's seem to do pretty well for most people
[12:09] <MLow> no 2m stuff, but all fm
[12:09] <mattbrejza> you could always do afsk rtty
[12:09] <mattbrejza> it would need a bit more power oc
[12:11] <Maxell> MLow: rxing ssb on 70cm costs like 9 dollars wirh rtl-sdr
[12:11] <Maxell> but if you can tx or rx fm on 2mtr aprs could be nice
[12:12] <Maxell> tx and rx
[12:12] <Maxell> however, rx could be done by igates and digis
[12:12] <mfa298> rtl-sdr will also work in 2m and several other bands.
[12:16] <MLow> i have looked into the rtl stuff
[12:16] <MLow> takes quite long to ship from them it seems
[12:17] <wd8mnv> if you're on a shoestring, 3 weeks cost mothing to wait : )
[12:18] <wd8mnv> nothing*
[12:18] <acidtech> hi all
[12:18] <acidtech> what rig is better yaesu ft857d or icom 706 mk2?
[12:18] <nats`> woooo
[12:18] <acidtech> cannot decide
[12:18] <nats`> you want tos tart a rumble :p
[12:19] <wd8mnv> i have a 706 mk 1 no UHF
[12:20] <nats`> I have no license but a FT857D for rxing
[12:20] <nats`> works great (means better than the FT790R)
[12:20] <nats`> this is my only reference :D
[12:20] <fsphil> that's a bit overkill for RX-only
[12:20] <nats`> not when you had it for not so much
[12:20] <nats`> I'm waiting to receive the V/UHF transistor for a repair
[12:20] <nats`> the final stage is dead
[12:20] <fsphil> ah fair enough
[12:20] <nats`> after maybe I'll sell it
[12:21] <cuddykid> ping UpuWork
[12:22] <wd8mnv> anyone tried using a RFM22 as a receicer? it is a transceiver after all
[12:22] <mattbrejza> Darkside has
[12:24] <wd8mnv> can you get audio out of it?
[12:24] <UpuWork> he did it using the built in gfsk
[12:24] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure you cant get the IF or baseband out of it
[12:24] <mattbrejza> so no
[12:24] <mattbrejza> one of the chipcon radios can though
[12:25] <mattbrejza> although ment as a test feature
[12:25] <wd8mnv> chipcon?
[12:25] <mattbrejza> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[12:26] Nick change: Guest91579 -> nick_
[12:30] <fsphil> there are IQ demodulator ICs out there
[12:34] <mattbrejza> you normally need a seperate LO + LNA, and so can be a right pita
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[12:35] <wd8mnv> could use habamp for LNA?
[12:36] <fsphil> true
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[12:43] <MLow> gah, internet went out
[12:47] <MLow> just for me, not the server luckily
[12:53] <acidtech> nats`, I heard that 706 is overheating even in RX mode. Is that true?
[12:55] <Maxell> MLow: all of teh interwebs gone?
[12:55] <Maxell> do you own a ham licence?
[12:56] <Maxell> for the tracker TX
[12:56] <MLow> ye
[12:57] <MLow> i think the decoding problem is my soundcard
[12:57] <gonzo___> is this the aprs you are still having probs with?
[12:58] <MLow> yeah..
[12:58] <mfa298> acidtech: reading back a bit, what radio to get would tend to depend on what you want to do, how much money you want to spend, what features you want, and potentially what license level you want to aim for
[12:58] <gonzo___> could you try playing some afsk packet audio files into it to rule that out?
[12:59] <acidtech> main thing that I want is portability, for mobile use.
[13:00] <acidtech> also want full 100W on hf bands
[13:00] <nats`> acidtech 706 ?
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[13:00] <nats`> you talk about icom ? I don't have any icom
[13:02] <MLow> gonzo___: maybe i didn't describe well what is happening
[13:02] <MLow> i can decode packets, just not mine
[13:02] <acidtech> yes, my mistake
[13:02] <acidtech> <wd8mnv>
[13:02] <acidtech> I heard that 706 is overheating even in RX mode. Is that true?
[13:02] <mfa298> acidtech: aiming for a Full license :D, for portable and 100W you're probably looking at things like FT-857, FT-897 or IC-7000 and possibly some of the other icoms (I don't have any realy experience of them)
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[13:03] <acidtech> yes, I can`t decide between ft867d and ic-706mkIIG
[13:04] <acidtech> ft857d*
[13:04] <wd8mnv> overheating on rcv??
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[13:05] <acidtech> yes
[13:05] <wd8mnv> never heard that
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[13:07] <wd8mnv> you can always go over to qrz.com and look at reviews
[13:07] <mfa298> acidtech: well out of those two I think I'd probably go for the Icom, but that's mostly down to front panel layout (and I've not really looked at other specs much)
[13:07] <wd8mnv> i've never owned a yaesu, so don't know
[13:08] <mfa298> it's also worth seeing if there's a yahoo (or less likely google group) for the various radios and see if there are common threads.
[13:09] <Maxell> check out my new ATV 13 cm band dish-antenna http://i.imgur.com/54AgKyW.jpg :P
[13:10] <MLow> lol
[13:10] <MLow> i needed that little laugh
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[13:26] <g0azs> 706 gets "warm" on RX and freq. can shift as the fan cycles on and off (esp at UHF)
[13:26] <g0azs> ther eis a mod to have the fan running all the time that takes care of that
[13:27] <g0azs> "overheat"... no... even 100W RTTY key down does not do that
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[13:27] <g0azs> Caveat: I run a 706 II G
[13:28] <g0azs> I might install the TCXO one day
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[13:32] <acidtech> g0azs,
[13:33] <acidtech> ok, thanks.
[13:34] <g0azs> BTW When I say "frequency shifts".. I mean a few hz..not much more than that
[13:38] <chrisstubbs> Okay... Has anyone managed to configure a uBlox MAX-6 in U-center and save the settings to flash ?
[13:41] <MLow> so if other stations are decoding/repeating it must be my radio setup
[13:42] <mattbrejza> chrisstubbs: connected external eeprom to the max6?
[13:42] <mattbrejza> fairly sure you cant save in internal flash
[13:43] <chrisstubbs> that may well be the case, the instructions i have been following were for the LEA
[13:43] <mattbrejza> i think the lea needs external memory too
[13:48] <MLow> so yeah i think im going insane
[13:49] <gonzo___> MLow, how are you generating the AFSK then? Keying an external oscillator otr generating it from the processor?
[13:49] <MLow> arduino running trackuino code
[13:49] <gonzo___> sorry, I don't know it
[13:49] <gonzo___> you'll have to decsribe
[13:50] <MLow> it is going thru an HX1, 300mw, and a wire antenna 493mm long, being decoded reliably by someone 6.9 miles away
[13:50] <mattbrejza> farily sure the trackduino generates a 1200 or 2200 tone that goes into a hx1
[13:50] <gonzo___> so you are using the processor to generate the audio?
[13:51] <gonzo___> rr ok
[13:51] <MLow> yeah on a pwm pin
[13:52] <gonzo___> then I'd look at the audio output on a spectrum analyser prog (the waterfall on fldigi would prob be enough)
[13:52] <gonzo___> and check that the two tones are correct and equal level
[13:53] <gonzo___> and that there are no silly harmonics in the output 9indicating that the filtering is not working, or that you are overdriving some analogue part of the curcuir
[13:53] <gonzo___> (harmonics, would indicate problems)
[13:54] <mattbrejza> well i think the pwm is fed directly into the transmitter
[13:54] <mattbrejza> its up to it to filter the pwm
[13:54] <mattbrejza> but you should still be able to look at the pwn signal on your pc
[13:54] <mattbrejza> and even decode it
[13:55] <mattbrejza> also you might have to increase the level of the 2200 tone to undo the rx filters in the recievers
[13:55] <gonzo___> then connect to your radio and adjust the drive level correctly. If you have no way of measuring, just listen to your tx and adjust it to sould the same as other users
[13:55] <mattbrejza> according to leo's experience anyway
[13:56] <gonzo___> I've only ever used TNC's for packet
[13:56] <gonzo___> but the basics should be the same
[13:56] <MLow> hx1 input is right from the pwm ping directly
[13:56] <MLow> according to people who have done this and made it work
[13:57] <mfa298> MLow: the other test that might be worthwhile is seeing if your decoding setup is decoding other aprs stations
[13:57] <MLow> it is
[13:57] <gonzo___> it's important to get the levels right. If you overcook the deviation, then it will cause problems
[13:57] <fsphil> how good is your timing?
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[13:59] <gonzo___> it may be that your radio has narrow filters designed for a 12.5khz channel spacing. If you overdrive it, it will just distort the decode. Whereas this remote station may have wider filters (older 25khz channel spacing) which would be more tollerant of wide deviation
[13:59] <MLow> icom IC-2000
[13:59] <gonzo___> I'd assumed timing was inbuilt to the arduino code?
[14:00] <MLow> right
[14:00] <gonzo___> don't know the radio. Check what filetr bandwidth it has
[14:00] <fsphil> interrupt or delay timing?
[14:00] <MLow> ill take some snaps of the waterfall
[14:02] <MLow> looks like the one tone is lower than the other
[14:02] <MLow> by a good bit
[14:04] <MLow> 2200hz IIRC
[14:05] <MLow> vs the 1200 being pretty good looking
[14:05] <gonzo___> some low pass action going on somewhere in the chain then?
[14:08] <MLow> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12996303/my_packet_as_heard.png
[14:08] <MLow> top is as heard directly, second is after it's repeated by a station
[14:09] <MLow> i can decode the repeated version, but not directly
[14:10] <gonzo___> I can't really make anything out in that
[14:11] <MLow> hm sorry
[14:12] <MLow> way i read it the higher tone is weak coming from my hx1, but it is heard and decoded, then repeated packet the tones look about equal
[14:14] <gonzo___> how do you couple the pwm output to the tx module?
[14:15] <MLow> directly into it as per schematic of the trackuino
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[14:15] <gonzo___> which is?
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[14:16] <MLow> the schematic?
[14:18] <gonzo___> I don't have it, so you will need to describe the signal path, processor to tx module
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> in APRS 2200 tone should be almost twice the level (=modulation) of 1200 on the air
[14:19] <LeoBodnar> so about 3kHz modulation for 2200 and about 1.5kHz for 1200
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[14:20] <MLow> little above me but i think i understand the jist
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[14:20] <gonzo___> LeoBodnar, really? I'd always set them equal.
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[14:20] <MLow> from what i can tell then it's a modulation issue, not enough on one tone
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> can you generate clean continuous 1200 and 2200 tones separately to start from?
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[14:20] <LeoBodnar> and check they are clean and don't overdrive the RX?
[14:21] <gonzo___> thouigh done by ear in thiose days, as that was all there was. And 3db by ear could be anythuing
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> gonzo___: if you send them into the receiver it will do it for you
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[14:22] <LeoBodnar> But I don't think these Radiometrix TX modules have pre-emphasis built in (needs checking)
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> Good TNC can still pull it off
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> on RX
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[14:24] <LeoBodnar> I think you can see that your 2200 tone has not been pre-emphasized and therefore has been suppressed after de-emphasis
[14:25] <gonzo___> old school mathod was to listen to the tones individually on a separate rx, and adjust by ear for equal level. Then adjust against a known level, usually a node, as they stood a better chance of being correct
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> But remote repeater has correct pre-emphasis
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[14:25] <LeoBodnar> sure gonzo___ all you care is that TNC gets roughly equal tone
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> +s
[14:26] <fsphil> aprs igate running for 14 hours. 0 packets so far :)
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[14:26] <mattbrejza> :/
[14:26] <mattbrejza> when at home i got packets every few seconds
[14:26] <mattbrejza> or so
[14:26] <fsphil> I have the channel to myself here basically
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[14:27] <gonzo___> I was wondering what the analoguwe interface was. if there was a high Z in the path and some C on the input of the tx module, that would roll off the higher tone/
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[14:28] <gonzo___> is the pre-emp on the drive to overcome froll off on the TX radio then?
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[14:29] <LeoBodnar> So to sum it up if you pipe APRS audio into proper transmitter it does pre-emphasis (boosting 2200) for you. If you do it into Radiometrix module or modulate crystal or PLL you need to take care of it yourself.
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[14:30] <gonzo___> ah, that makes sense
[14:30] <MLow> hm
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> Pre-emphases could be as simple as RC network if you stay analogue
[14:31] <gonzo___> So does the arduino board got pre-emp? Or is it done in software?
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> no idea :p
[14:32] <LeoBodnar> I bet it does not
[14:32] <gonzo___> suppose depends if it was designed for a module or feeding ionto an AR radio
[14:32] Nick change: priyesh_ -> priyesh
[14:32] Possible future nick collision: priyesh
[14:33] <LeoBodnar> For generic RF use you want a clean linear response
[14:33] <LeoBodnar> E.g. if you come to do SSB MFSK signals you don't want tones of different amplitude on the air
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[14:34] <LeoBodnar> So it makes sense having clean TX path and do pre-emphasis in software
[14:35] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ_AFK -> Steve_G0TDJ
[14:35] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey guys :-)
[14:35] <gonzo___> for a generic board, yes. Depends if the designers had just packet in mind
[14:35] <LeoBodnar> sure
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[14:38] <MLow> got a decode
[14:39] <MLow> but thats the first out of who knows how many
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[14:39] <MLow> all i did was play with the volume on my RX
[14:40] <MLow> got a 3rd packet decoded now
[14:41] <LeoBodnar> who knows how many = 1
[14:41] <LeoBodnar> 1 / who knows how many = who knows how many
[14:41] <LeoBodnar> thus who knows how many = 1
[14:42] <LeoBodnar> wait or could be = i
[14:42] <LeoBodnar> forget that = -1
[14:42] <gonzo___> ah, that is getting to the root of the problem
[14:43] <LeoBodnar> I'm positive it's negative
[14:43] <gonzo___> I imagine so
[14:43] <LeoBodnar> lol
[14:43] Action: daveake makes a sign
[14:43] Action: daveake makes a sine
[14:43] <LeoBodnar> it's plane simple
[14:44] <daveake> not complex at all
[14:44] <nats`> I'm not bi polar at all just a little complex !
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[14:45] <fsphil> this doesn't add up
[14:45] <gonzo___> get real!
[14:47] <daveake> He's an exponent of the art
[14:47] <gonzo___> sum one had to say it
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[15:05] <nats`> gonzo___ I never go without my imaginary friend !
[15:10] <daveake> I've no argument with that
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[15:17] <nats`> daveake you shouldn't resist so much :)
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[16:02] <ve6ts> but i have had splashdown into the only puddle of water in the field (murphys law)
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[16:23] <nats`> netsplit party !
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[16:24] <LeoBodnar> pop the balloons!
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> It is kinda silly
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[16:31] <fsphil_> ah we're back
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[16:36] <nats`> I don't know who is back but that was a netsplit
[16:36] <nats`> a real one :D
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[16:53] <nats`> yay I received a VR5000 to test \fo/
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[17:00] <LeoBodnar> Is that a chip on your shoulder nats` ?
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[17:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: What was that recentish cheap arm with the very fast processor. I'm thinking of using it for a hacky oscilloscope/FIFO thing.
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> very fast ADC
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> For debugging a SMPS.
[17:03] <nats`> LeoBodnar yes a decapped chip :D
[17:03] <nats`> SpeedEvil lpc4370
[17:03] <nats`> :)
[17:04] <nats`> NXP gave me one devboard it's pretty impressive
[17:04] Geoff-G8DHE_ (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:05] <nats`> http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/app/labtool.php
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[17:06] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
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[17:06] <MLow-work> yay work
[17:07] <nats`> SpeedEvil if you want to do oscilloscope just buy the EA board I think you'll gain much time
[17:07] <nats`> the board and the software are pretty good
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[17:07] <mattbrejza> how is that thing only £6...
[17:07] <fsphil_> MLow-work: I was going to say something, but it wouldn't make you feel better
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[17:07] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> nats`: That is rather better than I remembered - and I'd thought it was ST.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> nats`: That's damn near ideal.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> nats`: I am making a silly project.
[17:08] <MLow-work> not much can make me feel better about work
[17:08] <mattbrejza> well if it was Laurenceb who showed it to you it probably was ST
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> nats`: A welder. +-50V out, +-300A.
[17:08] <nats`> yep SpeedEvil I remember you talked about it some days ago :)
[17:08] <MLow-work> the level of stupid about this whole place is astronomical
[17:08] <nats`> I was impressed by the 300A figures ;D
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> nats`: That would be almost ideal for catching why explosions occur.
[17:08] <fsphil_> £6?
[17:08] <nats`> buy a HIGH FPS camera too :)
[17:08] <MLow-work> i had my aprs tracker sorta kinda working after my best efforts, so i think to be safe, i better scrap and start over in a different direction
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> nats`: :)
[17:09] <mattbrejza> http://uk.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=179219834
[17:09] <mattbrejza> it has a 12bit 80MSPS adc and some other stuff and is only £6...
[17:09] <fsphil_> oh nice
[17:09] <fsphil_> scary package
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> :/
[17:10] <nats`> SpeedEvil my advice is do a box for their board
[17:10] <nats`> it's a mount of two pcb with 2 lpc43x
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> What?
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> And the debug board is only 16 quid?
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> Madness.
[17:11] <nats`> quid ?
[17:11] <mattbrejza> i went to the adc section of hte website and put in 12bit 80MSPS ADC
[17:11] <mattbrejza> cheapest is £7.20...
[17:11] <MLow-work> so if i were starting from scratch on a shoestring budget(cause i already blew money on current components) what would i do for tracking
[17:12] <MLow-work> RFM22B rtty tracker? dont have a SSB RX unit though...
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> Oh wow.
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> And it can use sdram
[17:13] <nats`> you know the lpc4370 is a dual core arm ?
[17:14] <nats`> M0 + M4
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Mind=blown
[17:14] <nats`> basically the M0 handle device and dma the M4 do the crunching
[17:14] <nats`> 3 cores my bad
[17:14] <nats`> 2x M0
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[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Wait - I don't see documents anywhere for the demo board.
[17:16] <nats`> on embedded artist ?
[17:17] <nats`> let me find you the two links
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> I was looking on farnell/nxp
[17:17] <Willdude123> craag: I've noticed a small issue with the SDR
[17:17] <Willdude123> There seems to be band wide EMI
[17:17] <Willdude123> At times
[17:18] <nats`> http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/app/labtool.php
[17:18] <LeoBodnar> I have been waiting for QFN versions of some NXP chips forever. They released BGAs and just don't bother with anything else. QFNs are still listed as "coming soon"
[17:18] <nats`> http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/lpcxpresso/lpclink2.php
[17:18] <nats`> if i'm not wrong the two mate
[17:18] <craag> wow mattbrejza that would be a nice sdr :)
[17:18] <nats`> LeoBodnar bga is easier I think here
[17:18] <mattbrejza> needs dual ADC really
[17:18] <nats`> just take care of taking the 100pin 1mm pitched
[17:18] <craag> good point
[17:18] <nats`> the lfbga is 0.8mm
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[17:19] <mattbrejza> unless that has a sample and hold that can sample both then alternatly convert
[17:19] <cm13g09> e'nin all
[17:19] <Willdude123> craag: It is such a big problem I assume you'd noticed it
[17:19] <craag> Willdude123: on 70cm?
[17:20] <craag> GB3ET is a repeater on the same mast, which knocks it out for a few seconds every 10 minutes or so. Unavoidable atm.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> nats`: yeah - on this sort of part - you really need either BGA, or to want a limited set of the peripherals and for the chip to have a massive crossbar switch
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> nats`: not for me, I only needed a high speed USB and half a dozen i/os
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[17:22] <SpeedEvil> And yeah.
[17:22] <nats`> LeoBodnar in that case why not a FX2 from cypress ?
[17:22] <MLow-work> could i use a 70cm FM for rtty??
[17:22] <nats`> that's exactly the use
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> All I'd really want from that chip would be half a dozen analog pins, and perhaps microSD or high speed analog pins.
[17:22] <nats`> you put a fx2 and and an UC behind
[17:22] <craag> MLow-work: You could, it's not ideal.
[17:22] <MLow-work> hmmff
[17:23] <craag> MLow-work: Why not get an rtl-sdr receiver?
[17:23] <MLow-work> pushes my costs past red more
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[17:23] <LeoBodnar> I dislike the whole EZ-USB thing
[17:23] <MLow-work> i'll have to put off the HAB stuff to next month
[17:23] <MLow-work> my HX1 doesnt deviate enough for reliable APRS for some reason(I probably broke it but know knows)
[17:24] <craag> NTX2B + rtl-sdr is probably the cheapest decent solution.
[17:24] <nats`> LeoBodnar why ?
[17:24] <nats`> it's pretty easy way to have HS usb
[17:25] <nats`> the driver on windows have some signature problem that's the worst thing in my opinion
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> I don't want any drivers on the host side
[17:25] <craag> MLow-work: Have you looked at the price of rtl-sdrs?
[17:25] <Willdude123> craag: yeah
[17:25] <MLow-work> yes the RTL ones?
[17:25] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[17:25] <nats`> LeoBodnar how do you want to do USB HS without driver ?
[17:25] <MLow-work> seems that shipment is from somewhere out of country
[17:25] <craag> MLow-work: Yes.. they're rather cheap!
[17:25] <nats`> un less you use a standard profil that's not possible
[17:25] <craag> Oh ok, where are you located?
[17:25] <MLow-work> USA
[17:25] <craag> Willdude123: Yep, it's the repeater, see my explanation above.
[17:25] <Willdude123> craag: how high is it?
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> Using existing USB classes but I don't want a specific Cypress driver that loads some crap into the device before it can be used
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[17:26] <Willdude123> OK
[17:26] <craag> MLow-work: I'd have thought there would have been somewhere inside the states selling them...
[17:26] <craag> Willdude123: 70cm rx antenna is about 5m AGL
[17:26] <craag> reapater antenna is 10m AGL on same mast
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> HS USB house for example would just plug in and work on OS X/Linux/Windows/etc
[17:27] <MLow-work> craag: the ones i saw were form china or taiwan
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> *mouse
[17:27] <Willdude123> Right, might have some diffculting receiving it
[17:27] <Willdude123> Given the terrain
[17:27] <craag> MLow-work: Keep looking around, there are plenty of local sellers here in the UK
[17:27] <Willdude123> craag: Power?
[17:27] <nats`> LeoBodnar I think you can do that with the cypress
[17:27] <nats`> you just store the firmware on i2c eeprom
[17:27] <craag> Willdude123: repeater: 5W
[17:28] <nats`> and are you sure HS usb mouse can do bulk transmit ?
[17:28] <nats`> (the only way to have easily 400mb/s)
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> I thought EZ-USB thing loads the firmware from the host each time the device is powered up by the Cypress drivers
[17:28] <MLow-work> assuming i do that, I will probably be the only one in the US to use rtty for a hab lol
[17:28] <nats`> LeoBodnar you can it's for dev
[17:28] <craag> MLow-work: Nope, there's a small but growing group :)
[17:28] <nats`> but you can store the firmware on the board
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[17:29] <nats`> in fact when you have no firmware it loads a dummy enumeration
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> So somebody can take off I2C EEPROM with my firmware and run a few thousands copies?
[17:29] <nats`> the driver take over and allows you to upload new firmware
[17:29] <nats`> yep but that's just an usb interface
[17:29] <nats`> so don't really worth it
[17:30] <nats`> almost all the time you do basic stuff in it
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[17:30] <nats`> + that's not that hard to extract firmware from uC if you have the money t do it
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> I am talking just inquisitive hobbyists not people like you :D
[17:31] <nats`> look at the salae logic analyser
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> Anybody can take I2C SOIC off a PCB and read it
[17:31] <Willdude123> craag: my LOS seems very poor with just about every single repeater there is
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[17:31] <nats`> that's just a cypress fx2 tha's why you find so muany clone
[17:31] <nats`> yep that's true but like said FX2 is not meant to keep secret code
[17:32] <nats`> that must be only an interface
[17:32] <nats`> nothing more
[17:32] <LeoBodnar> That's exactly why I don't want it
[17:32] <nats`> the logic side is pretty bad
[17:32] <nats`> poor 8051
[17:32] <nats`> usually you do fifo transfer and that's all
[17:32] <nats`> + some logic for control
[17:32] <MLow-work> craag: lol i was maybe fibbing a bit
[17:32] <MLow-work> but thats what it seems like
[17:32] <craag> Willdude123: Bear in mind the websdr is at the top of a tall hill, hence why it can hear so many repeaters.
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[17:33] <MLow-work> wonder where i should post to, in order to see about tracking a launch in the USA with rtty
[17:33] <craag> Willdude123: It's normal to just have LOS to one from your home, or none!
[17:33] <LeoBodnar> NXP has some sweet Cortexes with HS USB interface and QFN but no FLASH, so they are off the list. The ones with HS USB and FLASH are in BGA.
[17:33] <craag> MLow-work: Talk to arko, who's in LA
[17:34] <MLow-work> LA, CA or the state LA
[17:34] <craag> LA, CA
[17:34] <arko> woo!
[17:34] <arko> Los Angeles
[17:34] <MLow-work> coolio my sis lives in LA
[17:34] <arko> nice
[17:34] <MLow-work> you know what Los Angeles mean right
[17:34] <MLow-work> (ron burgandy voice)
[17:35] <arko> har har
[17:35] <arko> thats San Diego but sure
[17:35] <MLow-work> google brough me here for an rtl-sdr
[17:35] <MLow-work> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NooElec-SDR-ADS-B-USB-Set-w-R820T-Tuner-USA-1090MHz-1090-MHz-RTL2832U-RTLSDR-/171163633489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27da25c751
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[17:35] <MLow-work> arko: gimme a break im at work
[17:35] <MLow-work> :P
[17:35] <arko> :P
[17:36] <arko> where are you exactly?
[17:36] <arko> new mexico?
[17:36] <craag> MLow-work: That one is ideal, you'll need an adaptor to plug it into a 70cm magmount antenna as well.
[17:37] <craag> (for receiving from the chase car/truck/pickup/whatever-you-americans-drive-now)
[17:37] <MLow-work> MCX correct?
[17:37] <craag> yep looks like it
[17:38] <MLow-work> i will have to rent a car for chase i do not own one atm
[17:39] <Willdude123> craag look http://imgur.com/hyoa82t
[17:39] <nats`> MLow-work take a bike :)
[17:40] <craag> Willdude123: I live in Southampton.. best repeater is GB3SN which I can't get with anything less than a 5/8 on the car. You have no sympathy.
[17:40] <craag> :P
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[17:42] <Willdude123> craag: well I'm getting a handheld for christmas anyhow so meh
[17:43] <Willdude123> It *might* work
[17:44] <craag> You've got a few around, so it should.
[17:44] <nats`> Willdude123 what will you take ?
[17:45] <nats`> some baofeng trx ?
[17:46] <Willdude123> TVT something something
[17:46] <Willdude123> Pretty much a UV-5R I hear
[17:46] <nats`> I'm hesitating to sell my FT790R to switch for a baofeng UV-5R
[17:46] <nats`> the FT becomes old and is heavier
[17:51] <MLow-work> hm
[17:51] <gonzo___> and lose the ssb capability?
[17:51] <MLow-work> craag: looking for a mag mount UHF/VHF and an adapter
[17:51] <nats`> gonzo___ I have 857 and VR5000 now for that
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[17:52] <MLow-work> "Antenna Input Female MCX"
[17:57] <MLow-work> any on amazon that are good?
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[18:01] <gonzo___> there will probably be peope in here willing to buy it
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[18:04] <Maxell> The FT790R?
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[18:10] <MLow-work> rtl-sdr purchased
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[18:15] <ve6ts> well it's time to blow $11,660
[18:17] <ve6ts> my ariplane is ready to fly again, and the upgrade bill was ALOT
[18:17] <cm13g09> And there was me thinking that taking the car to the garage was bad enough...
[18:18] <ve6ts> hehe
[18:18] <ve6ts> i got 4 new cylinders and pistons installed
[18:18] <ve6ts> and it's anual checkup
[18:19] <cm13g09> heh
[18:20] <MLow-work> found a MCX male to BNC female, fast free shipping
[18:21] <MLow-work> $5
[18:21] <MLow-work> http://amzn.com/B0045EQUBK thats the antenna im looking at
[18:21] <MLow-work> 1/4 2m, should be fine for 70cm right/
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[18:27] <MLow-work> thats 3/4 wave if my math is right
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[18:33] <mfa298> Willdude123: seeing some of the scrollback there is a kml which might help you locate where the repeaters are http://www.ukrepeater.net/documents/ukrepeater.kml
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[18:34] <mfa298> Also from what I looked at the other day I reckon you'll have a decent chance at getting to ET (70cms) and JB (2m - although currently offline)
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[18:36] <Maxell> That Yaesu FT-790R could be nice for sats
[18:36] Nick change: fsphil_ -> fsphil
[18:42] <MLow-work> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10534 hehe thats so tempting to play with
[18:43] <MLow-work> doubt it would be good for much the data sheet says the freq could be anywhere within a 1mhz range lol
[18:43] <fsphil> ASK
[18:43] <fsphil> you could use them for hellschriber or morse code
[18:43] <mfa298> MLow-work: I think it's been found that a lot of those sorts of modules aren't that good for HAB use. Generally the baudrate is too high to get any decent distance.
[18:44] <fsphil> it might actually be an AM modulator, if the input isn't logic
[18:44] <mfa298> NTX2/NTX2B are good as you can control the signal being sent meaning you can do lots of stuff with them,
[18:45] <MLow-work> i was mostly joking
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[18:46] <MLow-work> i mean id like to play with one, maybe send one up just to see what happens, with a real working setup of course
[18:46] <mfa298> nothing wrong with getting one and seeing what it can do (if you want to experiment)
[18:46] <cm13g09> hey mfa298
[18:47] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
[18:47] <fsphil> always worth experimenting
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[18:47] <MLow-work> bits per second = baud?
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[18:47] <fsphil> for most modes yea
[18:47] <MLow-work> i dont think its locked to 4800baud then
[18:47] <fsphil> baud rate is like symbol rate.. but a symbol may have more than 1 bit encoded in it
[18:47] <MLow-work> the example code shows it being set to 2000
[18:47] <cm13g09> fsphil: I'm experimenting... only currently it's with Bluetooth
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> symbols per second = baud
[18:48] <fsphil> cm13g09: nice. I'm trying to make an FM demodulator in software
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> *always late
[18:48] <cm13g09> fsphil: I've got these wonderful RFCOMM BT modules here
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[18:48] <MLow-work> i imagine bluetooth gets noisy up there
[18:48] <cm13g09> MLow-work: thankfully, this isn't going up in the air....
[18:49] <MLow-work> would everyone in a 500mi radius be seeing your device in their pair list? :P
[18:49] <fsphil> on my todo list is to fly an SDR and record various bands and frequencies
[18:49] <fsphil> just to see what can be heard at 30km
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[18:49] <cm13g09> heh MLow-work - it's a thought
[18:49] <MLow-work> id imagine everything
[18:49] <MLow-work> ask the NSA?
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[18:50] <fsphil> good name for the flight
[18:50] <fsphil> Not Spying At-all
[18:50] <cm13g09> and since this channel might happen to know where to find such a part....
[18:50] <fsphil> storage of the raw data is the trick
[18:50] <cm13g09> I'm on the hunt for something very close to http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumex/LCD-S301C31TR/?qs=MaxZGLOdHCk5BnewmcNYnw== but I don't think it's actually that module I want
[18:51] <fsphil> I'm not going to be the first person to lose an SSD on a balloon :)
[18:52] <MLow-work> microsd comes in 64gb
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: SDs are just stupid SSDs.
[18:52] <MLow-work> if your are recording more than 64gb, dang
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> In teeny boxes.
[18:52] <fsphil> fast enough?
[18:52] <MLow-work> camera sd's
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: you can do meaningful SDR at 6khz
[18:53] <mfa298> class 10 SD would hopefully just about manage the data from a rtl-sdr
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[18:53] <SpeedEvil> ,ore is clearly better
[18:53] <mfa298> although might want testing first to check it really does manage the speeds class 10 should do.
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[18:53] <fsphil> I'd quite like to record 144-146mhz
[18:53] <MLow-work> sandisk ultra's are 30Mb/s
[18:54] <fsphil> or 434.000-435.000 mhz if another flight is taking place
[18:54] <fsphil> see if the other payload can be detected
[18:54] <fsphil> though if I knew the frequency in advance I could do a much narrower bandwidth
[18:55] <MLow-work> http://amzn.com/B009QZH6JS 64gb, 30MB/s
[18:55] <MLow-work> $45
[18:55] <cm13g09> So yeah.... 30x24mm LCD modules
[18:55] <cm13g09> 3 digit
[18:55] <cm13g09> 2 DPs
[18:55] Action: SpeedEvil has been playing with his new phone.
[18:55] <Sm3ulc> Balloon-mesh network :)
[18:55] <cm13g09> that's what I'm trying to locate....
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> It comes with vi preinstalled, and has I2C on the back.
[18:55] <cm13g09> failing miserably
[18:55] <fsphil> Sm3ulc: exactly :)
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> cm13g09: why?
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[18:56] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: need to replace a couple of broken ones
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[18:58] <Sm3ulc> fsphil: just make a nice downlink for all data.. :)
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[18:59] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: If you're wondering why I need to replace 2, it looks like the both got shot at.....
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[19:00] <Sm3ulc> fsphil: dual 160 mhz channels at 5 ghz
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> cm13g09: Fun
[19:00] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: yeah....
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Is this one inch tall?
[19:01] mclane (~quassel@p5B02E2BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:01] <cm13g09> the digits are maybe 7mm
[19:01] <cm13g09> there's *masses* of border
[19:01] <cm13g09> the ones I linked to don't seem to have enough of a display border
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> ah
[19:02] <cm13g09> that said, toying with the idea of replacing them with 7-segs
[19:02] <MLow-work> RFM12B vs RFM22B vs NTX2B
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right
[19:02] <cm13g09> At least 7-segs are a bit more robust to being chucked around
[19:02] <MLow-work> NTX2B is the only one with TCXO crystal right?
[19:03] <MLow-work> the recent flight of HABE i think had a RFM22B
[19:03] <MLow-work> it seemed to drift a tiny bit in freq but no ones lost track of it, IIRC and the rtty went all the way down to like a few hundred meters
[19:04] <MLow-work> RFM22B for $11, vs the NTX2B for $70(with the only US supplier charging $30 for shipping)
[19:04] <daveake> Yes the NTX2B has a TCO and IME is very stable
[19:04] <daveake> Speak to Upu re pricing
[19:04] <MLow-work> he has an awesome price
[19:05] <MLow-work> even gave me a coupon
[19:05] <mattbrejza> you should be able to fit a txco to a rfm22b though
[19:05] <Upu> sssh
[19:05] <MLow-work> oh shit
[19:05] <Upu> there is no coupon
[19:05] Action: Upu makes mystical hand movement
[19:05] Action: MLow-work makes a run for it
[19:06] <MLow-work> he has an awesome price
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[19:07] <MLow-work> like $40 cheaper face price, but his shipping is half that of lemos
[19:07] <Willdude123> How do FT-857 memory management bits of software work? I mean there is no (documented) function to program the memory
[19:08] <MLow-work> so its like $55 cheaper lol
[19:08] <Willdude123> That would be fun, buy the software, sniff the traffic -> make own free software
[19:08] <MLow-work> im just torn
[19:08] <MLow-work> i know if i order from upu the shipping will be like a month
[19:09] <Upu> nope
[19:09] <Upu> 5 days
[19:09] <MLow-work> i've never had a good purchasing experience out of country
[19:09] <Upu> you've never used Upupost
[19:09] <MLow-work> lol
[19:09] <arko> yeah, Upu ships faster than US distributors even
[19:10] <arko> i once ordered something monday and got it thursday
[19:10] <Upu> OT but I'm just watching the human hero that is "Steve" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8-SgCcKw48#t=628
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:17] <fsphil> people like that exist? wow
[19:17] <MLow-work> damn the adapter is an add-on item, i need to add $5 worth for free shipping!
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[19:18] <arko> fsphil: im pretty sure it's not real
[19:18] <arko> but damn entertaining
[19:18] <arko> confirmed, its a comedy short http://marcryan.com/
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> arko, looking forward to all the new NASA missions like the Uranus Orbiter
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hope that it will be built
[19:18] <arko> hahaha
[19:19] <arko> you said uranus
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:24] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[19:25] <MLow-work> hehe, bought a 10m active usb extension cable
[19:26] <MLow-work> i am gunna be able to put that sdr on my roof :P
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[19:30] <fsphil> arko: yep, not real. kinda glad :)
[19:31] <arko> yeah
[19:31] <arko> but its not too far from the truth sometimes
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> Uranus landing now!
[19:31] <Maxell> MLow-work: is it usb 2.0?
[19:32] <MLow-work> i hope so
[19:32] <fsphil> uranus might have an ocean
[19:32] <fsphil> (and I'm pronouncing that the non-rude way :p )
[19:32] <MLow-work> we'll see when it gets here, it says 2.0 but who knows
[19:33] <jcoxon> evening all
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[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, XD
[19:36] <Willdude123> I think I might do a robin hood with FT-857D management and write some memory management software and give it away for free
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[19:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> A bit late http://www.g4hfq.co.uk/mmohelp/mmohelp.htm
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[19:39] <Willdude123> Not free
[19:40] <mikestir> Willdude123: make the UI generic - I was going to do the same for the AR8200 but I don't have time
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[19:40] <mikestir> there are other tools available for that, but they all appear to be dire
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[19:43] <Willdude123> mikestir: what do you mean generic/
[19:43] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/asnpvjM.gif
[19:43] <arko> not safe for habs
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[19:46] <x-f> remote cutdown
[19:46] <jcoxon> weirdly on RS you can only get free delivery if you are a guest rather than logging in
[19:47] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might find HRD does the memory managment and there is a free version of that.
[19:47] <fsphil> I'd probably get free delivery right up until I enter my postcode
[19:48] <Willdude123> mfa298: yuck, sharewatr
[19:48] <number10> a brief article on internal balloon pressure jcoxon http://www.zmatt.net/weather-balloon-physics/
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[19:48] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[19:48] <Willdude123> Only a demo I though
[19:48] <mfa298> you should be able to find a full free version of HRD (just not the most recent version) and it's pretty decent software.
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[19:49] <jcoxon> number10, oh interesting
[19:50] <jcoxon> number10, want to launch something in a few weekends time?
[19:51] <number10> would be nice jcoxon
[19:52] <MLow-work> Upu: 5 days to US, really?
[19:52] <MLow-work> how do you do that
[19:52] <fsphil> may be a bit slower this time of year?
[19:53] <mikestir> Willdude123: sorry was afk. Would be good to have the GUI separate from the radio comms, so it's easy to support different radios
[19:54] <mfa298> Willdude123 (and mikestir) might be worth looking at what the rigcat and hamlib libraries support, might make life a lot easier if they can do memory managment.
[19:54] <mikestir> not sure about rigcat, but hamlib seems a bit limited in that regard
[19:57] <mfa298> I'm trying to remember how I set the memories on my 817, I don't think I paid for software to do it - although it's possible I did it manually.
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[19:58] <mfa298> I mostly only use the memories for repeaters so it's not that much hassle to do a few manually.
[20:02] <jcoxon> bbl
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[20:19] <Willdude123> mfa298: turns out figuring how to do voip on the pi is quite a challenge
[20:19] <Willdude123> Might have to go connectionless
[20:20] <mfa298> well you've got a few months to work it out as you'll probably need that full license before you can use it anyway.
[20:21] <mfa298> Looking at HRD it looks like it's only got memory managment for Kenwood and Icom no Yaesu
[20:21] <Willdude123> Right
[20:21] <Willdude123> It is documented on the deep underwebs
[20:22] <Willdude123> Not sure if the 8x7s are all the same in terms of interface
[20:22] <Willdude123> If they are that's good
[20:22] <Willdude123> Because there's a command to turn it on and off
[20:22] <Willdude123> Which it says is only for 817
[20:22] <Willdude123> Well, not only
[20:23] <Willdude123> It doesn't elaborate on if it can be used on the others
[20:23] <mfa298> I'd suspect they're similar but they might not all be exactly the same.
[20:23] <fsphil> 817 and 857 are not the same
[20:23] <Willdude123> That would save all the relay hassle
[20:25] <mfa298> I just found something that claims to do memory managment for the FT-817 and there's a couple of things that would make me a bit wary of trying to do some of these things.
[20:25] <mfa298> First line: 817-Mem is memory manager for FT-817 rigs. Use this program only with FT-817, other rigs like FT857, FT-897 use different memory map.
[20:25] <MLow-work> ugh...
[20:25] <mfa298> which suggests at least some commands for the 817 are different to 857/897
[20:25] <MLow-work> ok so how hard would it be to put a ublox max7q on a board myself, and antenna wise what should i do?
[20:26] <fsphil> yep, I have to change hamlib config when switching between the 817 and 857
[20:26] <MLow-work> i've done sot and 0805 packages
[20:26] <mfa298> Having this page also state "Before connecting any software radio to your rig, it is highly recommended to save the factory calibration settings. " sounds a bit ominous.
[20:27] <mfa298> these are the settings you shouldn't need to look at or change, and it sounds like there's a risk of the memory managment software trashing them.
[20:27] <Willdude123> https://bg8net.dyndns.org/OpLog/FT-897D_CAT-Commands_EEPROM-Allocations.html#sect03
[20:27] <Willdude123> That is confusing
[20:27] <Willdude123> 817 is mentioned
[20:27] <Willdude123> So is 897
[20:28] <iqon_> 857 and 897 are the same
[20:28] Nick change: iqon_ -> acidtech
[20:28] Nick change: acidtech -> acidtechh
[20:29] <mfa298> it sounds like for managing the memory on the yaesu's you've got to fiddle with bytes on the eeprom.
[20:29] <Willdude123> Scary :)
[20:30] <mfa298> so the layout on that eeprom is probably different between different models.
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[20:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> eneving all
[20:31] <Willdude123> It was only when I started ham radio I realised how comparitively stupid I am
[20:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNPfD9l14Js new challenge :-)
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> strange creature :)
[20:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: 20 grams, You can beat them with hands down
[20:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[20:32] <mfa298> Willdude123: also remember with most radios, even when the radio is "off" it may not be fully off.
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> lol
[20:33] <mfa298> several radios have the finals powered directly from the DC jack so may never get turned off by the button on the front.
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> did you try your Linux decoder on the test CD audio files?
[20:33] <mfa298> and obviously the cpu has to be partly running to accept on commands via CAT
[20:34] <Willdude123> mfa298: it said it drew 10 ma when "off"
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[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: yes, if i recall that was more than 750 packets
[20:35] <mfa298> those comments look like they're purely for the 817 (it's talking about what happens if it's only on internal batteries or from dc power)
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[20:42] <LeoBodnar> I am still working on algorithm Tom
[20:43] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is keeping fingers crossed :-)
[20:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> but I think that FFT is littlebit overkill :-)
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> I got 973 packets so far
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> WOW
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
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[20:45] <Garak> Hello guys, whats up
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> so - You have decoded all :) ?
[20:45] <Upu> balloons Garak
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> I don't know how many are there, there are some broken ones (halves, etc)
[20:46] <Garak> have any of you guys built your own tracking antenna for the ground station?
[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: im affraid that, there are no balloons up at the moment ;-)
[20:46] <Upu> nope :)
[20:47] <mfa298> Garak: I usually use a home made antenna for tracking from home.
[20:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> Ive lost my FunCube dongle pro and i cant find :-(
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[20:47] <LeoBodnar> BUt I had to apply high-pass filter externally to the wav - I don't know whether to implement it in the algorithm or analogue input filtering will take care of low freq removal
[20:49] <Garak> I stumbled accross a free 1.2m dish last week, tracking balloons and UAV's is one of the many things I want to do with it. So I'm working on designing a cheap but beefy XY rotator for it
[20:49] <mfa298> SP9UOB-Tom: sounds like a good excuse to get another one ;)
[20:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lol I have found my coilgun :-)
[20:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> mfa298: orginal FCD is on the place
[20:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: what is cut-off frequency ?
[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i think that it should have impact to efficiency
[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: have NO impact
[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> i mean
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> I have applied 1200Hz cutoff with 24dB/oct roll-off in Audacity and saved it and run encoder on that
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> yeah simple 2 x 6dB HPF
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> 3 x 3dB
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> 3 x 6dB damn!
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[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> maybe Your decoder is somewhat overdriven? Some kind of saturation?
[20:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> if i understand You correctly You are using FFT to look for energy components at desired frequencies/bins right?
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> not really the input level is very low
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> yes
[20:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> so lower frequency bins shouldnt have impact to decoding performance
[20:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> but maybe im wrong, we should ask eroomde :-)
[20:56] <eroomde> he is very briefly here
[20:56] <eroomde> but cooking for his office christmas party of 14 people
[20:57] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rci6579hagui69/2013-12-16%2020.44.44.jpg
[20:57] <eroomde> boeff bourgignon, now swimming in some reduced-down red wine for marinating overnight
[20:57] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is looking for nearest flight to UK ;-)
[20:57] <eroomde> now i've got a lot of braised red cabbage to make
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: knock, knock ;-)
[20:58] <eroomde> that was quick
[20:58] <eroomde> who's there?
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> simple IIR should work but maybe analogue filtering will help
[20:58] <eroomde> the thign that excites me most is the cheese course
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> IIR could be unstable
[20:58] <eroomde> but then cheese and I have a very close relationship
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> now I want cheese
[20:59] <fsphil> cheese toastie
[20:59] <fsphil> mmm
[20:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: just HAM from Poland ;-)
[21:00] <eroomde> a nicely cured ham would be just the addition for the meal
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[21:00] <eroomde> i'm gonna garnish the bourguignon with sauted button mushrooms and pancetta, a salty porky kick
[21:01] <eroomde> an action shot of it swimming
[21:01] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4p84amz0qnhbo7p/2013-12-16%2020.47.22.jpg
[21:01] <eroomde> right i should probably get back on it, just wanted to take 5 before starting on the next dish
[21:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: look, they are making polish butter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr1DSgjhRqE ;-)
[21:02] <eroomde> watching
[21:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: polish.jpg
[21:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> country
[21:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> polish countryside :-)
[21:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> seek to 0:50 ;-)
[21:03] <eroomde> i dress like that when i'm cooking
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[21:03] <Kodar> :)
[21:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> at 2:08 they are making butter ;-)
[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: giwe photo :-)
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[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: give photo :-)
[21:05] <eroomde> don't really have the cleavage to pull off the look, sadly
[21:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> me neither ;-)
[21:07] <fsphil> photoshop
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[21:07] <eroomde> please noone do the photoshop
[21:08] <eroomde> i love this recipe because it makes a star out of things like ox cheek (what I'm using) which is super-frugal but completely amazingly delish with a good slow cook
[21:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> I have some of Your photos from the conference ;-)
[21:09] <fsphil> I'm hungry now
[21:09] <fsphil> not fair
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> I want scallops
[21:09] <eroomde> don't we all!
[21:10] <jcoxon> evening eroomde
[21:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> its too late for eating, Ed what You did to us ;-)
[21:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: tets back to signal processing
[21:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> *lets
[21:11] Action: SpeedEvil had one can of rice pudding, one can of beans, and some yogurt today.
[21:11] Action: SpeedEvil was not feeling like cooking.
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> I did make the yogurt from scratch though.
[21:12] Action: SP9UOB-Tom can make delicious pizza
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[21:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> SpeedEvil: me too - with cooked apples - Yummy :-)
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> also shrimps with garlic butter
[21:14] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is becoming more hungry
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> cleaned up on the desk, I still can not find the FCD :-(
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[21:15] <DL1SGP> lol SP9UOB-Tom
[21:16] <fsphil> I hate it when that happens
[21:16] <DL1SGP> if it is attached to the computer at present I suggest following the wires, that is what I do when I have troubles finding devices
[21:17] <DL1SGP> but the FCD is sneaky anyhow with the black case and stuff
[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL1SGP: nope - if i recall last time i have it in ham radio club, then i cant remember where it is
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[21:18] <DL1SGP> drats Tom, one day it will show up again... most likely just after you ordered something new
[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> i was put it somewhere - in order not to loose it
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> SP9UOB-Tom: hah
[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL1SGP: you're right
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[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> i'm still finding some various funny things ;-)
[21:23] <DL1SGP> haha
[21:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> FCD pro is recovered :-)
[21:31] <DL1SGP> woot
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[21:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
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[21:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hi Brian, hows Your new QTH :) ?
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> Some days I think how much easier life would be if I put a gps tracker in everything I own
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[21:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom Hi Tom. Doing fine at the new qth, plans for the tower is just about done, now i just hope cityhall planing accept it
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[21:33] <MLow> yo yo yo
[21:33] <MLow> im back from wizerk
[21:34] <MLow> i put my aprs tracker in the car on the dash, not a single packet decoded
[21:34] <DL1SGP> you moved Brian?
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[21:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: i have 20m pneumatic erected tower ready :-)
[21:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: russian military
[21:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP no not from last time we spoke :-)
[21:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Very nice Tom. Im going for a ~20m tower as well
[21:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 3 section tower, i hope to get very cheap from the railway here. They are putting new towers up
[21:37] <DL1SGP> So still in Arhus area? I gonna relocate into the area of Ebletoft on Sunday :) will stay until Jan 04, 2014
[21:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes still 15km north of Aarhus
[21:38] <DL1SGP> great, kind of on my road :)
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[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> hey SP9UOB-Tom DL1SGP OZ1SKY_Brian
[21:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Lunar_Lander
[21:43] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Kevin
[21:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> hey Lunar_Lander, saw Yellow Brothers landing on the moon :) ?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> hallo DL1SGP
[21:45] <MLow> hm, with gps unplugged i get better decodes?
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[21:45] <MLow> upu, is there anything i should speak with you about before ordering
[21:45] <jcoxon> MLow, interference?
[21:46] <MLow> your website says to speak with you on irc before ordering
[21:46] <MLow> jcoxon: mayhaps, my thoughts exactly
[21:47] <MLow> what to do though?
[21:47] <MLow> i'll be ordering another gps, ublox, and 2 more radios to test with
[21:47] <MLow> im trying to think of anything else I should get
[21:47] <jcoxon> seperate them a bit
[21:47] <jcoxon> longer wires or even shorter wires
[21:48] <arko> i'd recommend a preamp/filter
[21:48] <MLow> i unplugged the gps for now
[21:48] <jcoxon> ensure your powersupply is suitable
[21:48] <MLow> it's spotty though but seems better, still not getting 100% decodes
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[21:56] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: have you decoded AX.25 ?
[21:56] <arko> its easy!
[21:56] <arko> i've been using MixW
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> Is it a white man magic that makes normal code from some cryptic ASCII strings?
[21:58] <arko> oh the actual process of decoding (maths and all)
[21:58] <arko> ?
[21:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: kennyspeak ;-)
[22:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> Ffmppffmf mmfmmmppp mpmmppmmfppfmpmmpp mfffmp. Pffmppmmmpmfpmfffm
[22:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL
[22:00] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, ummmm depends what you mean
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> elders told us it is called Compiler and is called up by secret chants with many "-"
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> Have you sorted the addresses?
[22:01] <jcoxon> oh no
[22:02] <jcoxon> no idea
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> why not? don't give up
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> it's a one-line in those magical top-shelf tongues
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> *high-level languages
[22:02] <jcoxon> oh i did it another way
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> Or make a lookup table
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> lol
[22:03] <jcoxon> basically the program i've been using to decode aprs actually spits out the broken up version of hte packet
[22:03] <jcoxon> so i reconstructed it
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> I see
[22:03] <jcoxon> my ruby code takes the data and reconstructs the packet with the correct symbols
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> (lying)
[22:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:04] <jcoxon> i'm playing with ARM right now (teensy 3.0)
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> cool, is it NXP?
[22:05] <jcoxon> its a MK20DX128
[22:05] <LeoBodnar> ARM deserves some serious workload
[22:05] <jcoxon> in a nice package for simple people
[22:05] <jcoxon> and only $19
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> Don't tell me that I still have some demo boards Laurenceb said were cool. Still in blister packs.
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> They are indeed cool but so is all other stuff I fall for
[22:08] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, i assume arm is the next step for you
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> Did you get the biggest fastest teensy++ X2000 Mega Super special edition for $19.80?
[22:09] <jcoxon> sadly not
[22:09] <jcoxon> with the DAC
[22:09] <jcoxon> ?
[22:09] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: lemme know if you ever figure out how to use that :)
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> I have done some stuff with ARMv7 and had a quick go at Cortex-M3
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> Oh Freescale
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> PowerPC people
[22:11] <fsphil> ex-motorola isn't it?
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> Yeah
[22:12] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: which one do I need to get?
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[22:13] <jcoxon> 3.1
[22:13] <jcoxon> but i don't think its for you really - its a bit basic :-)
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[22:14] <LeoBodnar> I like things with pins
[22:14] <jcoxon> but yeah the 3.1 has nice DAC and ADC
[22:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> hedgehogs ;-) ?
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> wait does it carry Arduino inside?!
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[22:15] <LeoBodnar> not only SP9UOB-Tom ;-)
[22:16] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, it can if you want
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> If it does not have to I'll get one then. What is the DAC problem?
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[22:19] <LeoBodnar> From memory Freescale peripherals were a bit cryptic even on simple chip like motor controls 16 bits DSPs
[22:19] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, problem?
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> Ah, I read it as "sadly, not with the DAC"
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[22:20] <LeoBodnar> I read even worse than I type
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[22:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
[22:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> time to bed
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[22:24] <LeoBodnar> I have some Freescale Cortex demo boards but not M4
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[22:26] <LeoBodnar> do you need M4 level performance?
[22:27] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, oh i probably need less then arduino performance :-)
[22:27] <jcoxon> yay got my teensy doing RTTY with an ntx2
[22:27] <eroomde> fpu could be lovely for some linear algebra
[22:27] <LeoBodnar> http://uk.farnell.com/freescale-semiconductor/frdm-kl05z/eval-kinetis-l-freedom-cortex-m0/dp/2254491 12-bit DAC and ADC with DMA
[22:29] <FASTed> On the discussion board this weekend I heard talk of ultra low power APRS beacons for balloons.
[22:29] <FASTed> what are poeple using?
[22:30] <arko> discussion board?
[22:30] <arko> you guys get your hab back?
[22:30] <FASTed> this place here that we are talking on now
[22:30] <FASTed> its in the mail
[22:30] <jcoxon> FASTed, so LeoBodnar has successfully done it at 20mW i think
[22:30] <jcoxon> (correct me LeoBodnar if i'm wrong)
[22:30] <fsphil> ah, this is more commonly called a channel
[22:30] <FASTed> the NM group really helped us out!
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> yeah somewhere between 10 and 20mW
[22:31] <arko> :)
[22:31] <arko> cool man
[22:31] Action: cm13g09 finally cound his LCDs
[22:31] <cm13g09> Mouser had them
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> nice FASTed did they get theirs back?
[22:31] <FASTed> so is this something you made or something that can be purchased?
[22:32] <eroomde> mutually exclusive huh?
[22:32] <FASTed> I am not sure if the NM group got theirs back, good question
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[22:33] <LeoBodnar> I cobbled it together but I think there are plenty of options! Have you seen these: https://www.argentdata.com/products/aprs.html ?
[22:34] <FASTed> I have but those use lots of power also dont they?
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[22:34] <LeoBodnar> How low is low? I mean what is your target weight?
[22:35] <FASTed> Right now we are at 232g w batteries - that last 70 hours
[22:36] <FASTed> Ithat includes our styrofoam packaging
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[22:36] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: finally found the LCDs I was looking for
[22:36] <FASTed> If we could get something that used less power we could use less battery, and that is where most of our weight is
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> You can get down to 20 grams with probably 4-5 days runtime but the power would have to be lower
[22:36] <FASTed> That sounds great
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> On a latex?
[22:37] <FASTed> which components would we use to get down to 20g
[22:37] <FASTed> yes on latex
[22:38] <LeoBodnar> Hmmm good question. At the moment I can't think of a ready made solution on the market but there are at least four that are in the "working prototype" stage
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> Well the lightest I flew was 8 grams but it's just getting silly
[22:39] <FASTed> Where do I go to get more info? do you have any links?
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[22:40] <jcoxon> the radiometrix hx-1 isn't too bard
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> The ones available now are mine, Upu's, SP9UOB and arko and maybe more
[22:40] <jcoxon> bad*
[22:40] <jcoxon> nothing like LeoBodnar's stuff
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> Upu is commercial and the rest are hobbyist
[22:40] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsVDUdPLm8 -- points for production, even if it's realllllly overdone :)
[22:41] <arko> yeah im not going any lighter, its becoming useless going lighter
[22:41] <arko> gonna add more features
[22:41] <jcoxon> i don't think upu's aprs stuff will be commercial
[22:41] <arko> i can go down to 13g but its just so bare that it's not worth flying
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> On a latex probably 50 grams would make a nice tracker in a comfortable polystyrene ball with 2 weeks battery time
[22:41] <arko> well he has the habduino
[22:42] <daveake> "SPAAACE" fsphil :p :)
[22:42] <FASTed> OK this is great info
[22:42] <jcoxon> true
[22:42] <arko> yeah
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> It's also reasonable to consider not having GPS, but using other positioning solutions.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> That can get substantially lighter.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> But the question is why.
[22:43] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: Mouser & Digikey were the only people to have the screen I needed (and I hate ordering from either of them!)
[22:43] <LeoBodnar> It took a lot of effort to go from 50 grams to 10 but for latex balloon it won't be even noticeable
[22:43] <arko> heh
[22:43] <FASTed> How do I go about getting contact info for Leo, Upu, SP9UOB and arko?
[22:43] <arko> i got 10 of those 100g balloons now from steve
[22:43] <eroomde> ask them all
[22:43] <arko> gotta experiment with those
[22:44] <eroomde> they are here
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> arko: I was considering a few of those for a natural gas launch with a LED flasher.
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> A, forgot KT5TK as well!
[22:44] <Upu> basically say hi Upu
[22:44] <Upu> and he shall appear
[22:44] <Upu> it works for the the rest too
[22:44] <FASTed> LOL
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/
[22:44] <FASTed> ok still getting used to this chat thing
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> and I am Leo
[22:44] <Upu> My stuff isn't commercial
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> and arko is ... well arko
[22:44] <Upu> I don't sell trackers
[22:45] <Upu> however if you have somewhere interesting to hang them
[22:45] <Upu> I'm usually game
[22:45] <eroomde> what's habduino?
[22:45] <Upu> GPS and radio shield for an Arduino why eroomde
[22:45] <Upu> [22:44] <Upu> I don't sell pico trackers
[22:45] <Upu> pedantic pants
[22:46] <FASTed> We plan on doing 7-8 more flights with distance in mind in the next couple months
[22:46] <eroomde> i change them regularly so they stay fresh and clean
[22:46] <Upu> lol
[22:46] <FASTed> We have a good setup with a flowmeter so we can really dial in our gas fill
[22:46] <Upu> mines not quite ready yet still working on the TX
[22:46] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:46] <Upu> it does RTTY, and getting there with DominoEX
[22:47] <FASTed> If you would like to fly your hardware on one of our balloons...
[22:47] <eroomde> the flowmeter seems like an awesome thing for balloon filling
[22:47] <FASTed> egiandomenico@yahoo.com
[22:47] <Upu> I'd love to be a little part of a transatlantic attempt
[22:48] <arko> eroomde: i have a solidworks of a flowmeter im designing, might have some questions for you...
[22:48] <Upu> theorycraft says I could be able to cross the atlantic with a single AA battery
[22:48] <arko> not now, but when the design is a bit more mature
[22:48] <eroomde> ok
[22:48] <Upu> or solar like Leo does
[22:48] <LeoBodnar> I have abandoned RTTY and DomEX but can do APRS and Contestia
[22:48] <Upu> but let me get back to you on that
[22:48] <arko> FASTed: i dont sell trackers, but i will donate for cool flights
[22:48] <arko> i just need some time to build it and ship it out
[22:48] <FASTed> sounds great
[22:49] <arko> i was talking to amanda about the 21st launch, trying to get something ready for you guys
[22:49] <FASTed> Amanda and I would love to keep tring
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> I think for fun we can send you one of each of ours. I am definitely keen to get it back by airmail
[22:49] <FASTed> we are getting close to having most of our bugs from a flight platform worked out
[22:49] <MLow> what would be considered good altitude for a HAB, the numbers im getting back from the calculator are 25km
[22:49] <arko> the trick is making the balloon last
[22:49] <FASTed> Our math is getting pretty close for getting exactly the float altitude we are looking for
[22:50] <MLow> did you guys get recovery?
[22:50] <FASTed> We can reliably dial in our free lift down to a couple of grams
[22:51] <FASTed> yes the NM group found it and is sending it back to us. Landed 6 mi fromthier launch site
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[22:51] <FASTed> I saw that CNSP saw our method and is also now using a flowmeter
[22:52] <MLow> any more info on the recovery? video? :D
[22:53] <FASTed> here are pictures from the group that recovered it for us
[22:53] <FASTed> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B626xQQdn1z-aU0yYzdRQlZwWUE&usp=sharing
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> FASTed: what was the problem with site access I think the recovery truck stopped and that's where we were left
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> with no further info
[22:53] <FASTed> not sure they walked in. I guess the road was not great.
[22:54] <FASTed> the link shows pictures of the recovery site
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> cool box! :D
[22:55] <FASTed> It was cool they had their Christmas dinner that night so took pictures at a bunch of "Breaking Bad" sites then photos at the dinner
[22:55] <eroomde> :)
[22:56] <arko> woah coool
[22:57] <arko> haha
[22:57] <arko> breaking bad
[22:57] <arko> thats epic
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[23:04] <arko> i dig the tape
[23:05] <LeoBodnar> i concur
[23:06] <eroomde> red cabbage is starting to fill the house with nice smells
[23:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn all
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[23:08] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/1bLHroU Ready for its maiden flight tomorrow morning!
[23:09] <arko> nice!!
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[23:09] <arko> best of luck
[23:09] <arko> good flying
[23:09] <chrisstubbs> Hopefully I wont need it ;)
[23:09] <chrisstubbs> Do i recall you having a quad arko?
[23:09] <arko> i didnt realize Barclays sells antennas
[23:09] <arko> yes i do
[23:09] <chrisstubbs> haha only the best
[23:09] <arko> http://wiki.032.la/quadrotor
[23:10] <chrisstubbs> its all a bit bodged atm
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[23:10] <chrisstubbs> the magneic field from the power distribution board is still too high with the APM stood off on that block of foam
[23:10] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26CKfzZxblg
[23:11] <arko> oh really?
[23:11] <arko> those motors are super noisey
[23:11] <eroomde> inline LC filter maybe. The L's should stop it taking off
[23:12] <chrisstubbs> oops flip, still not bad for a first flight!
[23:12] <arko> eh
[23:12] <chrisstubbs> a set of destroyed props is kinda a result considering what can go wrong
[23:12] <arko> i dont have video of my later flights were i actually left the ground higher
[23:12] <arko> err
[23:13] <arko> went higher and flew longer
[23:13] <arko> oh i just bought a 20 pack of blades
[23:13] <chrisstubbs> I love the display stand!
[23:13] <chrisstubbs> good move, i regret only getting 2 sets
[23:13] <arko> i went through so many when tuning the PID
[23:13] <eroomde> when I was into RC helicopters our model shop did flight consumable kits
[23:13] <arko> i was stupid and flew it over concrete since there is no gass in downtown la
[23:14] <eroomde> a pack containing new blades, a new boom, new tail belt etc
[23:14] <arko> smart
[23:14] <arko> not as profitable for them :P
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[23:14] <arko> they are jerks here
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> aren't two large contra-rotating props more efficient than 6 small ones?
[23:14] <arko> you get nothing and they charge your half the cost of the heli to get new stuff
[23:15] <eroomde> bigger and slower probs are usually more efficient, yep
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> CG movement to control
[23:15] <eroomde> props*
[23:16] <eroomde> and much quieter, which is part (though only a pretty small part) of the efficiency improvement
[23:16] <chrisstubbs> arko, was that test flight with APM or your own hardware?
[23:16] <arko> APM
[23:16] <eroomde> not sure if you've ever seen an osprey fly in horizontal mode, but it's almost silent
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[23:16] <arko> test flights of my board were never recorded because it was like 2am by the time i was ready to test and no one was around
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> Large slow props are beautiful
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> and magestic
[23:17] <chrisstubbs> haha :P But it works?
[23:17] <arko> LeoBodnar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syJq10EQkog
[23:17] <arko> you'd love this
[23:17] <arko> chrisstubbs: yes
[23:17] <arko> but it wasnt great
[23:17] <arko> never finished tuning it
[23:18] <chrisstubbs> Thats still really impressive
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[23:19] <arko> i ended getting an APM because at the time i was working on a rival board
[23:20] <chrisstubbs> ArkoPilot Mega
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> cool
[23:21] <arko> haha
[23:21] <arko> i should revisit this project really
[23:21] <arko> its been too long
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[23:23] <chrisstubbs> What would have been the advantage of your board over the APM arko?
[23:23] <arko> it was arm based
[23:23] <arko> let me see if i can find a picture
[23:23] <arko> http://arkorobotics.com/images/portfolio-isaac.jpg
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[23:24] <arko> arduino compatible, but was written using free tools like Atmel Studio
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> what radio is that?
[23:24] <arko> zigbee
[23:24] <arko> which i hat
[23:24] <arko> e
[23:24] <arko> i was going to ditch it
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> ah
[23:24] <arko> then gps
[23:24] <arko> loads of pwms
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> venus?
[23:24] <arko> jtag
[23:24] <arko> yeah venus gps
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[23:24] <arko> this is like a 2 year old design
[23:25] <arko> full IMU
[23:25] <arko> 9-dof
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:25] <arko> sd card
[23:25] <arko> usb 2.0 native
[23:25] <arko> CAN
[23:25] <arko> super wide power range
[23:25] <arko> i have an even smaller design i never released
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/9cC04.jpg
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> mine from 3 years ago
[23:25] <arko> nice
[23:25] <Steffan-> [00:25:04] <Laurenceb_> incoming trollbait
[23:25] <Steffan-> [00:25:05] <Laurenceb_> http://arkorobotics.com/images/portfolio-isaac.jpg
[23:25] <Steffan-> <3 Laurenceb_
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> brb
[23:26] <arko> ?
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> HS USB arko you are mad lol
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> I use SAM3U just for that
[23:27] <eroomde> i'm unsure as to what's meant to be trollbait in this context
[23:27] <arko> trollbait?
[23:27] <arko> yeah sounds like Steffan- put this in the wrong channel
[23:27] <Steffan-> no, i did not
[23:28] <arko> there are many reasons this product was never released
[23:28] <arko> or Laurenceb_ posted else where
[23:29] <arko> oh very nice Laurenceb_
[23:29] <arko> posted on other channels
[23:29] <arko> class act
[23:29] <arko> lets not give any context as to what it is
[23:31] <LeoBodnar> why did you choose SAM3U arko ?
[23:31] <LeoBodnar> I think Arduino made a flop board on SAM3S which is very similar
[23:32] <arko> LeoBodnar: this is before the arduino arm was announced
[23:32] <LeoBodnar> ah
[23:32] <arko> its a long story
[23:32] <LeoBodnar> any reasons for SAM3U?
[23:32] <arko> prototype
[23:32] <arko> it was suppose to be the SAM3X
[23:32] <LeoBodnar> I have only ended up with it because it has HS USB
[23:32] <arko> yeah
[23:32] <LeoBodnar> OK
[23:33] <arko> also the package is too big
[23:33] <arko> the bga is much nicer
[23:33] <LeoBodnar> Atmel documentation is shit
[23:33] <arko> seriously
[23:33] <arko> i grew hatred for atmel through this project
[23:34] <LeoBodnar> indeed, let me shake your hand
[23:34] <arko> haha
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[23:36] <LeoBodnar> I should have met you earlier. I did not know humans were using it
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> sup
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> #stm32 like to diss autopilot boards
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> sometimes i feed them :P
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> but this time they approve :D
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[23:37] <arko> sure
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> do you have firmware for that thing?
[23:37] <LeoBodnar> I thought I was going mad and nobody could share my pain
[23:37] <arko> yeah
[23:38] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/229i57FF9F8295AD205B/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> custom or based off something else?
[23:38] <LeoBodnar> lol
[23:38] <arko> stm isnt any better tbh
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:38] <arko> custom
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> cool
[23:38] <arko> from scratch
[23:38] <arko> before atmel even announced arm
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> nowadays id port taulabs
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> i was using that board to play around with kalman filtering and mesh networks
[23:39] <arko> stm's discovery board was shite
[23:39] <arko> i tried to use it to teach people, never worked right
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> never finished the mesh network to openpilot interface :D
[23:39] <arko> poorly documented
[23:39] <Laurenceb_> fairdoos
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> im tempted to do a new autopilot board with more or less stock taulabs firmware
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> as its more developed now, and supports silabs radios
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> that stm32f1 based thing was underpowered too, only 72mhz with no fpu
[23:41] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: please tell ST to put USB PHY on the chip like all others
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> what do you need 480mbps for?
[23:42] <LeoBodnar> joystick
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[23:42] <LeoBodnar> no seriously :D
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> trollin
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> why so fast?
[23:43] <LeoBodnar> 12 bit DAC and ADC with DMA: http://uk.farnell.com/freescale-semiconductor/frdm-kl05z/eval-kinetis-l-freedom-cortex-m0/dp/2254491
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> "<Thorn> this channel needs to be renamed to ##cortex-trolls btw."
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> eww M0
[23:45] <LeoBodnar> at a stroke of a pen easily disguised as M8
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> arm asm is fun to use :D
[23:46] <LeoBodnar> Thumb or manly one?
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> ive been learning thumb
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[23:48] <LeoBodnar> Thumb is relatively easy, the normal mode makes your brain glow
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:48] <LeoBodnar> Good job they have ditched it for Cortex
[23:49] <LeoBodnar> But few legacy bits are still there like odd addresses
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[23:51] <LeoBodnar> how do I apply simplest 24dB roll-off high-pass filter to stream of digitised data?
[23:51] <LeoBodnar> 24dB/oct
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> IIR?
[23:52] <adamgreig> FIR surely easier
[23:52] <adamgreig> more stable
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> is it 4 sequential 6dB/oct?
[23:52] <adamgreig> requires longer period but whatever
[23:52] <adamgreig> meh. think you're easier just doing one 24dB filter
[23:53] <LeoBodnar> So where do I get the taps?
[23:53] <LeoBodnar> I have found this but it does not do "simple" http://t-filter.appspot.com/fir/index.html
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> My input stream is 44100Hz and I need 1200Hz HPF with 24dB/oct or so
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> ah t-filter is useful
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> without decimation FIR is quite long
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> but fir is going to eat your processor
[23:55] <LeoBodnar> would IIR be unstable? sampling rate is very high compared to filter knee point
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> id think you could get away with IIR
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[23:56] <LeoBodnar> this http://t-filter.appspot.com/fir/index.html does not allow for roll-off it only works with flat pass and stop bands
[23:56] <LeoBodnar> troll-off
[23:56] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:56] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> you can allow more ripple
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> and add lots of bands closely spaced
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> but then it takes ages to run
[23:58] <LeoBodnar> wouldn't FIR be simply unrolled IIR over say 40-50 steps? In layman terms
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> kind of , yeah
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> im working on an IIR bandpass at the moment
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> in thumb assembly
[23:59] <LeoBodnar> Hah cool I love it
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> atm it failing badly....
[23:59] <LeoBodnar> oh
[00:00] --- Tue Dec 17 2013