highaltitude.log.20131215

[00:00] <G8APZ> check reputable s/hand places advertised in Radcom.
[00:00] <chrisstubbs> I would only buy on gumtree in person and with cash, its packed with scams
[00:00] <G8APZ> they are best places to buy
[00:01] <G8APZ> chrisstubs I agree
[00:01] <acidtech> I don`t know what to do now :)
[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> germany will create a secretary for traffic and digital infrastructure
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> seems to resemble the "Data Highway" term which was used for the internet in the 1990s
[00:02] <mfa298> If that was an ebay seller id probably go with it (assuming there was enough favourable feddback) but then ebay at least provide some protection if you go via paypal
[00:03] <G8APZ> Paypal only if you have it linked to cred card
[00:04] <G8APZ> and many ebay scammers use a few low value transactions to gain feedback, then the heist
[00:06] <mfa298> from what I remember of the terms linking to credit card may not make a difference as a buyer, but ebay should provide protection if you use paypal.
[00:06] <mfa298> I've had money back via paypal when things haven't arrived
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[00:07] <G8APZ> ebay then only covered a buyer when the seller had a rating that covered above about £200
[00:07] <G8APZ> and when you pay £600 and nothing arrives, they would only pay out £200
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[00:08] <acidtech> bad
[00:08] <acidtech> very bad
[00:08] <G8APZ> Paypal tried 3 times to claim the £600 from my card ... and each time my CC refused it and charged back!
[00:09] <G8APZ> They gave up in the end
[00:09] <gonzo_> I've heard the response from a cc company, when lost money through paypal, that the cc to paypal transaction is all that the cc company will protect. After that you are on your own claiming through paypal
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[00:10] <mfa298> http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases
[00:10] <mfa298> search for paypal on that link
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[00:11] <G8APZ> gonzo I don't think that is correct. The CC card cannot charge you if you have not received goods
[00:11] Action: M6KIK regrets telling acidtech to advertise in radcom
[00:11] <gonzo_> radcom is prob safer, as it's limited circulation
[00:11] <M6KIK> How much you be willing to pay?
[00:11] <acidtech> what is radcom?
[00:12] <gonzo_> radcom is the rsgb members publication
[00:12] <G8APZ> RadCom = Radio Communication -
[00:12] <G8APZ> Previously known as The RSGB Bulletin or The Bull
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[00:13] <mfa298> that suggests that it's not so easy to claim back from the CC company if the payment goes via a 3d party(paypal, google checkout etc)
[00:13] <G8APZ> Well someone other than the punter is liable if there is a CC involved!
[00:14] <M6KIK> Has anyone else seen WACRAL? It seems to me a little silly a religious group would meet ota
[00:15] <M6KIK> By that logic one should be able to use amateur radio for meetings of any cause.
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[00:17] <gonzo_> in the uk you can't send any political or religious messages. S seems pointless
[00:17] <G8APZ> M6KIK I always wondered about that. When I took the RAE there were four specifically banned items you could not talk about. Sex, Religion, Politics and ???
[00:17] <M6KIK> amd what?
[00:18] <G8APZ> dunno - it was 1966 when I took the RAE!
[00:18] <M6KIK> gonzo_ does it specifically say something?
[00:18] <gonzo_> looks up licence doc
[00:18] <acidtech> and business
[00:18] <G8APZ> in the City and Guilds exam Q1 and Q2 were on licence condx....
[00:18] <M6KIK> I guess its like sending bikini pics over sstv
[00:19] <G8APZ> yes thats probably the fourth one!
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[00:20] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[00:20] <LeoBodnar> I don't think current licence prohibits discussing anything. You can't broadcast, can't use secret codes, can't use it for business and can't harass others, that's about all restrictions.
[00:20] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar and you must be able to wire up a 3 pin plug LMAO!
[00:20] <LeoBodnar> Not if you are foundations :D
[00:21] <LeoBodnar> -s
[00:21] <acidtech> hehe lol
[00:21] <acidtech> 
[00:21] <acidtech> :D
[00:21] <LeoBodnar> Russian keyboard?
[00:21] <acidtech> yes
[00:21] <acidtech> wrong layout
[00:21] <G8APZ> so I guess these days they don't ask you to draw a circuit diagram of a superhet and describe how the mixer works? LOL
[00:21] <gonzo_> looks like the limitations on messages are only, grossly offensive, obscene or menacing
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[00:22] <gonzo_> so the good old laughing policeman was bamg to rights
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[00:22] <G8APZ> or incomprehensible to the NSA!
[00:22] <LeoBodnar> Intermediate a bit and Advanced is still quite good
[00:23] <acidtech> but anyway silly questions
[00:23] <acidtech> )
[00:23] <G8APZ> http://www.laughingpoliceman.com/rsgb.htm for those who like a p155take!
[00:24] <gonzo_> I used to listen to his 'broadcasts' when I was getting ready to go to college
[00:24] <gonzo_> wet myself. even used to leave a cassette deck recording so I didn't miss him
[00:25] <G8APZ> was that on SL repeater?
[00:25] <G8APZ> in the 70s there were ppl like "Grandad"
[00:26] <G8APZ> on drugs or something? !!
[00:28] <acidtech> any advices about antennas?
[00:29] <gonzo_> one of the b'ham ones. BX?
[00:29] <gonzo_> lots of advice, but need detailed questions
[00:30] <mfa298> acidtech: what band(s) and possibly modes?
[00:30] <M6KIK> Is oit
[00:31] <M6KIK> Is it allowed to deliberately put your net close to someone elses without meaning to cause interference?
[00:31] <gonzo_> a friend owns BX now. Though hehas a sense of humor, and used to listen ans=d laugh too
[00:31] <G8APZ> gonzo ah ... there was one which went off air due to a device...!
[00:32] <G8APZ> acidtech... the question is far too wide...
[00:32] <gonzo_> undue interference. Is the key phrase. Intentional could just be a (un)mitigating factor
[00:33] <M6KIK> I guess you can talk about sex and politics and religion
[00:33] <gonzo_> there is a bit on the lpws site about that if I remember
[00:33] <M6KIK> Providedx you try not to offend people
[00:33] <G8APZ> M6KIK Your net... you mean your router? If so, it is license free so you accept no protection
[00:34] <M6KIK> I mean a net
[00:35] <M6KIK> As in an agreement to meet on a certain frequency
[00:35] <G8APZ> gonzo yes... it was http://www.laughingpoliceman.com/bomb.htm
[00:35] <M6KIK> So say we have an evangelical Christian net on 14.220
[00:35] <gonzo_> undue is, if their rx is crap and interference is reasonable, given the crapnes of their equipment, then it's just down to moaning old men
[00:36] <gonzo_> or if you are italian, that behaviour is expected
[00:36] <G8APZ> M6KIK you select a net QRG so as all can hear each other ... no point in selecting one so close to another that there is only QRM!
[00:36] <M6KIK> Can I start a net on 14.210 that discusses how fabulous gay sex is?
[00:36] <M6KIK> Or is that seen as provocative
[00:37] <G8APZ> M6KIK I wouldn't if I were you!!
[00:37] <M6KIK> (assuming there's no interference)
[00:37] <G8APZ> but I would be prepared to subscribe to a fund to help out with HABE loss
[00:38] <M6KIK> It isnt really in the nature of ham radoo
[00:39] <mfa298> 14.210 is a fair way from 14.220 for ssb
[00:39] <G8APZ> I hate nets anyway, and in 47 years I have never been on HF
[00:39] <mfa298> ssb should be around 3khz wide
[00:39] <M6KIK> If the purpose wasthat when the christians were tuning up they'd hear us talking about how fabulous gay sex is.
[00:40] <G8APZ> M6KIK I'd say that was debatable and provocative!!
[00:40] <gonzo_> and it makes your eyes water
[00:41] <LeoBodnar> The idea with talking on the air is that if you don't like something - move on or switch the radio off.
[00:41] <G8APZ> :-)
[00:41] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar which is why I never used HF in 47 years!!
[00:41] <LeoBodnar> It worked then! :D
[00:41] <G8APZ> I have 3W on 24GHz and 33dB antenna gain!!
[00:42] <G8APZ> cost per QSO unknown, but cost per station worked perhaps £100 !!
[00:43] <G8APZ> The exclusive club!
[00:43] <LeoBodnar> I am fascinated by microwaves. It's black magic
[00:43] <gonzo_> but for the first 37yrs, you wee noit allowed to. As a class B you were expected to wear a vai
[00:43] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar No it isn't!!
[00:43] <gonzo_> veil and 3 paces behind the class A's
[00:44] <G8APZ> gonzo but I could have taken a test in a digital mode invented in the early 1800s to communicate along wires!!
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[00:44] <LeoBodnar> Stripline filters, etc. They are government conspiracies.
[00:44] <gonzo_> not that long ago, 70cm was considered to be white man's magic
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[00:45] <gonzo_> I did that on-off test thing, still never used HF till I had a psk qso with fsphil
[00:45] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar Seriously 3cm (10368MHz) you can build a transverter from commercial modules, a decent microwave relay and interconnecting leads...
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[00:46] <gonzo_> look in a sat tv lnb, it's not that different from an rfm22
[00:46] <G8APZ> gonzo I got on 70cms with homebrew converter into an R107 tuning 3-5Mc/s and a home made valve tripler
[00:46] <LeoBodnar> Whom are you talking to G8APZ ? Is this for pure LOS link?
[00:46] <G8APZ> that was in 1966 or 67
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[00:47] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar no... on 3cm my best DX on 200mW was SM at 1026km
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[00:47] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar then Austria at around 1035km with 10W
[00:47] <LeoBodnar> EME or meteors I assume?
[00:48] <gonzo_> I remember the R107, the old man had one he brought war surplus. That is what got me into radio in the first place
[00:48] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar and on rainscatter from SW France 700km + to UK
[00:48] <gonzo_> Are tyhere still hab points up for grabs for the first valve tracking tx?
[00:48] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar... no MS above 432MHz and EME needs big dish!!
[00:49] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar It is mainly tropo and rainscatter
[00:49] <gonzo_> not that big a dish
[00:49] <LeoBodnar> cold war radios are cool
[00:49] <gonzo_> a little 10ft will do (ping sibot!)
[00:49] <SIbot> In real units: 10 ft = 3.05 m
[00:50] <acidtech> http://s10.postimg.org/89tpewao9/DSCN0346.jpg
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[00:50] <acidtech> that is the main problem :)
[00:50] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar Some free reading UKMicrowave Group journal Scatterpoint is here> http://www.microwavers.org/indexs.htm
[00:51] <G8APZ> gonzo yes 3m dish is BIG in my terms!!
[00:51] <M6KIK> G8APZ what the ham radio issue or whether gay sex is fabulous
[00:52] <G8APZ> gay sex is off topic!!
[00:52] <LeoBodnar> Thanks G8APZ I'll look around. I did not know there was life above 1GHz
[00:52] <gonzo_> don't go bringing chocolate into it too!
[00:52] <LeoBodnar> I.e. non-pre-arranged contacts
[00:53] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar I wrote the Activity column for 4 years so there will be at least 40 columns for you to judge by!!
[00:55] <M6KIK> G8APZ true but so is religion
[00:55] <LeoBodnar> gonzo_: what are you thinking?
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[00:55] <M6KIK> How can you have both?
[00:55] <eroomde> G8APZ: yes
[00:55] <eroomde> infact i think the first completely analogue hab would get lots of points
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[00:55] <LeoBodnar> I have been thinking about it Ed
[00:56] <M6KIK> It may be a slight exaggeration but it raises an interesting ethical point
[00:56] <eroomde> something that could get you a 3d position and perhaps temperature or pressure or some other measurement
[00:56] <eroomde> i found some of my boss's notes from when he was doing rocket telem when he was my age
[00:56] <LeoBodnar> AR is just a tool M6KIK
[00:57] <eroomde> it was great stuff, he had analogue sensor conditioned to give a voltage output that he put onto a VCO at a certain audio centre freq
[00:57] <G8APZ> M6KIK agreed - I may make an exception for AC/DC ladies since AC/DC theory may be relevant!
[00:57] <gonzo_> the original met sondes were analogur. But getting a tracking networc with active radar.....
[00:57] <eroomde> he put for or 5 of these together at different centre freqs in the audio range and plugged them into a dictaphone
[00:57] <M6KIK> It is interesting as some people's idea of offensive is another person's idea of fab-u-lous
[00:58] <gonzo_> 3mtrs is not that dig a dish... www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/CIMG4085.JPG
[00:58] <eroomde> then demodulate on the ground and plug the output onto a pen plotter
[00:59] <G8APZ> gonzo it is when your garden is 20 F eet wide (catch that SIbot!)
[00:59] <G8APZ> or even 20 F¬¬t wide
[00:59] <M6KIK> So. I found a canadian guy (who I know for other reasons) who's willing to help me write the code for the voip partof my remote radio project
[00:59] <craag> If SIbot is getting irritating I'll switch it off
[00:59] <LeoBodnar> 20 f55t
[01:00] <craag> huh
[01:00] <eroomde> SIBot is a force for good in the universe
[01:00] <eroomde> the perfect blend of automation and passive aggression
[01:00] <M6KIK> I agree
[01:00] <craag> lol
[01:00] <G8APZ> craag no it is amusing... maybe a change of record!! It's like an irritating GPS device in a car!! Turn left NOW
[01:00] <M6KIK> Isnt america technicallt supposed to be on si units
[01:01] <eroomde> yes
[01:01] <eroomde> doesn't stop them though
[01:01] <G8APZ> I think we have a derogation on metric units!
[01:01] <M6KIK> VoIP over python is probably going to be a little crap, in terms of will only work on lan but atm I only need to build a system for lan
[01:02] <G8APZ> Metrication is sometimes a nonsense... when did the computers stop using half inch tapes and go metric?
[01:02] <M6KIK> Connectionless voip might be fun to try though
[01:02] <G8APZ> and when did carpets come in sq Metres but 12ft wide?
[01:02] <SIbot> In real units: 12 ft = 3.66 m
[01:02] <G8APZ> yeah right!
[01:02] <LeoBodnar> QIC rules
[01:03] <G8APZ> even car wheels and tyres are not metric.
[01:03] <M6KIK> SIbot needs to chill out and get a pint
[01:03] <M6KIK> :-)
[01:03] <M6KIK> Does it work with 1 furlong?
[01:03] <gonzo_> ah, you have won it over
[01:03] <G8APZ> no
[01:03] <gonzo_> or it's sulking
[01:03] <M6KIK> 2 yards
[01:04] <mfa298> the one I noticed earlier is for cars: we buy petrol in metric, but measure it's use in imperial
[01:04] <gonzo_> no not for-long
[01:04] <G8APZ> SI units don't include rods, perches, poles, chains, furlongs etc!!
[01:04] <gonzo_> it's only beed half a century since we went metric. give it time
[01:04] <G8APZ> yes.. buy litres and do miles per gallon!!
[01:05] <mfa298> M6KIK: if you want SIbot to do anything other than feet you need to add to the code.
[01:05] <eroomde> yes i do wish my car would do mpg but temperature in C
[01:05] <mfa298> could be worse we could measure miles per litre
[01:05] <G8APZ> gonzo have a look at supermarket jars... they are not 500ml, but the imperial equivalent to a pint!!
[01:05] <LeoBodnar> furlongs per barrel
[01:05] <eroomde> if i want temp in C then i have to have fuel consuption in something stupid
[01:06] <eroomde> did you know that the units of fuel consumption are an inverse area?
[01:06] <M6KIK> eroomde in your job do you work exclusively with si units? Wasn't there a rocket that crashed because of one team using imperial units
[01:06] <G8APZ> and the horse races - 10 furlongs the 1000guineas!
[01:07] <G8APZ> never mind BthU
[01:07] <eroomde> M6KIK: yes, that was mars polar orbiter at JPL
[01:07] <LeoBodnar> So you have singularity problem when you are stationary
[01:07] <M6KIK> I'm bored of using this as a nick now
[01:07] Nick change: M6KIK -> Willdude123
[01:07] <eroomde> we work exclusively in metric, though lots of fittings and plumbing are all still imperial
[01:07] <Willdude123> Ah that's better
[01:07] <G8APZ> M6KIK I think it was a US space thing!
[01:08] <Willdude123> I'm willdude123 now :-)
[01:08] <G8APZ> anyway the metre is defined in terms of a bar of metal!
[01:08] <LeoBodnar> that's À rad turn
[01:09] <Willdude123> G8APZ no it isnt
[01:09] <gonzo_> you passed then will. good man
[01:09] <Willdude123> The kilogram is the only one defined by a physixal object
[01:09] <Willdude123> Thanks :-)
[01:10] <Willdude123> Decided I didnt want to get the rsgb yearbook for crimbo
[01:10] <eroomde> i think the metre was fairl recently restandardised as a wavelngth of something
[01:10] <gonzo_> and it's losing material
[01:10] <mfa298> although apparently the kg isn't a kg any more
[01:10] <gonzo_> snap
[01:10] <Willdude123> Getting computers in amateur radio
[01:10] <Willdude123> I actually quite like my little remote control idea
[01:11] <Willdude123> Although writing a stable voip app in python is going to be so hard
[01:11] <G8APZ> Willdude123 It was at one time!
[01:12] <Willdude123> It's almost easier to just use skypw or something
[01:12] <Willdude123> But I need something I can interface ptt with
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[01:13] <G8APZ> All I care about is that my pint doesn't include froth!
[01:14] <gonzo_> the ptt/ctrl does not have to be over the same link
[01:14] <gonzo_> as the audio
[01:14] <gonzo_> but a pint should have a head. I don't live in london
[01:14] <mfa298> Willdude123: what do you actually want to do on radio ?
[01:15] <G8APZ> gonzo then you pay for sodium alginate or something of less density than beer!!
[01:15] <eroomde> i think my local has that as the guest alginate at the moment
[01:16] <Willdude123> mfa298 in terms of bands/modes?
[01:16] <mfa298> yes
[01:16] <G8APZ> eroomde you pay for froth!!
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[01:16] <Willdude123> mfa298 I want to mainly do hf
[01:17] <Willdude123> Because there are almost no repeaters
[01:17] <Willdude123> Maybe psk31, primarily voice
[01:17] <G8APZ> 67 FEET of long wire will do for a start!
[01:18] <mfa298> depending on what antenna(s) you're going to use for hf you might want to consider how you tune it (and monitor swr)
[01:18] <Willdude123> Someoine kick G8APZ :-)
[01:18] <Willdude123> Ah
[01:18] <Willdude123> Good point
[01:18] <G8APZ> I was a SWL in early 60s... and on an ex Army R107 heard SSB from New Zealand on 80 metres every morning.... not a challenge
[01:19] <mfa298> auto atu should do it but might cost a bit more
[01:19] <Willdude123> hmm
[01:19] <mfa298> manual atu might be more interesting to tune remotely
[01:20] <G8APZ> kicks himself and washes out mouth with soap and water for mentioning HF!
[01:21] <G8APZ> and leaves this chat awaiting more tracking challenges
[01:21] <G8APZ> 73 all
[01:21] <mfa298> you might want to see if you chosen radio can report swr via cat
[01:22] <Willdude123> mfa298 would do that just for lolz
[01:22] <LeoBodnar> gn G8APZ
[01:22] <mfa298> gn G8APZ
[01:22] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar GN and have a good look at Scatterpoint Activity col from 2008 - 20012!!
[01:22] <LeoBodnar> will do!
[01:23] <G8APZ> I'll be pleased to be part of a secure recovery team in Essex if anyone wants to set one up....
[01:24] <G8APZ> the HABE event today totally disgusted me, so I'll be preparing my MPV as a recovery vehicle!!
[01:24] <Willdude123> mfa298 just has swr hi and swr lo
[01:24] <Willdude123> wait no
[01:24] <Willdude123> HI swr on and off
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[01:26] <mfa298> you might want a seperate swr meter which you'll want to read somehow
[01:26] <Willdude123> Hmm
[01:27] <Willdude123> If I have an automatic atu do zI sitll need to monitor swr?
[01:28] <mfa298> I'd probably want some idea of the swr, but might be less of a requirement.
[01:28] <Willdude123> I could just note down the swr for frequencies I frequent
[01:28] <mfa298> you'd want to ensure the tuner has done a reasonable job
[01:30] <mfa298> you generally want as low a swr as possible, otherwise your power just goes back into the radio rather thn into the antenna.
[01:31] <mfa298> if you do look for an auto atu the ideal option is one you can mount at the antenna feed point,
[01:31] <Willdude123> Hmm you can get LDG AT-200 PCs
[01:32] <mfa298> the other option is to have antennas designed for the bands you're using, but that can get more interesting.
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[01:37] <Willdude123> This a
[01:37] <Willdude123> This is an expensivs hobby :-)
[01:37] <mfa298> it can be
[01:37] <Willdude123> I guess I'll get the cheapest manual atu I can
[01:38] <Willdude123> Then when I can get an auto one, get one from radcom or a club member
[01:38] <gonzo_> secon hand auto ATU's can be had for about £100
[01:39] <mfa298> that's also where lookign at other radios can be worth it.
[01:39] <Willdude123> Hmm
[01:39] <Willdude123> Will think
[01:39] <gonzo_> or you could make a pretuned one, that you tweak for the required bands and just switch the L?C ina nd out woith relays
[01:39] <mfa298> some have atu's built in. although they're generally not as good as a dedicated one
[01:39] <gonzo_> at 10W, that should be quite doable
[01:39] <gonzo_> or get clever with some motors
[01:39] <Willdude123> I guess it's a case of just having a think about what has the best value for money
[01:40] <mfa298> webcam to monitor a cross needle swr meter
[01:40] <Willdude123> Interesting idea
[01:40] <gonzo_> a simple antenna (as I have here) is a 5/8th wave cb vertical. Mounted on a wooden fence post in the garden. The coils in the base of the atenna removed and a bit of copper water pie in the ground as an earth
[01:41] <Willdude123> Time will tell I suppose
[01:41] <Willdude123> Visiting ML&S next weekend
[01:41] Action: SpeedEvil looks at his DC-2GHz multiplier.
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> Sample from AD
[01:41] <gonzo_> it's actually a far cheaper hobby than it was once
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> I am making a silly thing from it.
[01:42] <gonzo_> gn all
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> (though it would also suit for SWR)
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> A device to multiply Id and Vds on a FET, feed it through a RCRCRC thermal model, and trip if the 'junction' gets too hot.
[01:42] <mfa298> talk to the people at ML&S about what you want to do and they can hopefully advise.
[01:44] <Willdude123> mfa298 have you been there?
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[01:44] <mfa298> not to ML&S
[01:45] <mfa298> but I've been to nevada radio as my fairly local shop and they're generally helpful
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[01:46] <mfa298> and whilst buying radio kit looks expensive, it should have a long life and tends to keep its value well
[01:48] <Willdude123> On an unrelated note, did dab fail?
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: It's in the process.
[01:49] <SpeedEvil> It's based on a _shitty_ codec with extreme spectral inefficiency problems.
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> DAB - if redone today - could be considerably better.
[01:50] <craag> DAB+, which is used by the rest of europe iirc, is a lot better
[01:51] <craag> uses half-decent audio compression
[01:51] <craag> but the UK has invested so heavily in the DAB kit, that we can't jsut upgrade.
[01:52] <Willdude123> analog radio sounds fine to me
[01:52] <Willdude123> Isn't there something about it being better too?
[01:53] <mfa298> must be time for them to start trying to get people buying dab radios again.
[01:54] <mfa298> Analogue TV can be better than digitalTV. but with the digital versions you should be able to get many more channels in the same bandwidth
[01:55] <craag> Willdude123: Digital Radio has several advantages, firstly you shouldn't get 'flutter' on the motorway
[01:55] <craag> Also it's one frequency, with many programmes
[01:55] <craag> So you select by station name, you don't have to 'search' for a station
[01:55] <craag> And the transmitters can be a lot lower power
[01:56] <craag> (although they went too far with the last point with DAB, hence lots of complaints of bad reception)
[01:57] <Willdude123> Is using a handheld radio in a car going to work particularly well? Is the fact that it's a hugw lump of metal going to make a difference?
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> DABB is generally worse than FM.
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> If you have a good FM signal.
[01:58] <craag> Willdude123: Not nearly as well as if you connect it up to a magmount on the roof of the car.
[01:58] <mfa298> magmount is the way to go in the car
[01:59] <craag> SpeedEvil: Yeah, MP2 sucks..
[01:59] <mfa298> and 5w can do a pretty decent job like that (that's all I use when mobile)
[01:59] <Willdude123> Right goos night people
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> craag: that, and bitrate.
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> I mean - some stations are broadcasting on _48K_
[02:02] <craag> ouch
[02:02] <craag> AAC+ isn't bad at 48K
[02:02] <craag> but MP3 isn't good, and MP2 is awful
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> mp2 isn't terrible at 196K
[02:07] <craag> hehe, but what is?
[02:08] <craag> also 196K > 48K == 6 dB of extra S/N margin
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[03:26] <N2NXZ> Guessing N9VAR-11 is a test track?
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[03:28] <SpaceApple> that was no test track :-)
[03:29] <N2NXZ> Where are the tracking stations?
[03:30] <N2NXZ> I wanted to try and tune one in on web tuner
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[05:29] <MLow> back
[05:30] <MLow> anyone here....
[05:30] <MLow> echo....
[05:31] <oh1hih>
[05:32] <MLow> ?
[05:48] <nigelvh> MLow, you poked me earlier?
[05:52] <nigelvh> Well, I'm off to bed, If you need something, PM me. Much easier for me to find it rather than searching the scrollback.
[05:52] <MLow> heyyyy
[05:52] <MLow> yeah will do
[05:53] <MLow> im STILL battling my hx1 lol
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[06:21] <MLow> KT5TK1: poke
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[08:46] <DL1SGP> Good Morning all
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[09:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> morninh
[09:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> morning
[09:04] <Reb-SM3ULC> Morrn!
[09:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: you starting up a new flight?
[09:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: Launch! good conditions
[09:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: im fixing code bugs :)
[09:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: in power saving code
[09:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: bus soon i'll launch 21 MHz floater :-)
[09:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> *but
[09:08] <MLow> what happened to N9VAR-11
[09:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: cool, rtty on 21MHz, or?
[09:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: dominoEX and CW
[09:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: exciting
[09:11] <Upu> me launch ? Could do actually but still working on code
[09:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: yup, look at the prediction :-)
[09:12] <Upu> haha
[09:12] <Upu> balloons are at work
[09:12] <Upu> so is the power board
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[09:13] Action: SP9UOB-Tom has still problems with those crazy-ivans. But they may be caused by no 100% clear sky
[09:13] <MLow> well
[09:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> in fact there are less than 50%
[09:13] <MLow> my little tracker actually got heard
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[09:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> MLow: great :) found the error(s)?
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[09:18] <MLow> Reb-SM3ULC: nope, tried LOTS of stuf
[09:18] <MLow> it appeared that my deviation was off, and the signal waveform looked "ugly"
[09:19] <MLow> some combination of modifying the sine wave table and adding a ceramic decoupling capacitor fixed it, or so it seems
[09:19] <MLow> has more deviation, AGWPE can decode 30 out of 31 packets
[09:19] <MLow> and when I hooked it up to a half wave dipole someone 6.9miles away decoded it
[09:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> MLow: AGWPE is poor
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[09:27] <MLow> what do you recommend
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[09:28] <MLow> MixW doesn't decode nearly as much
[09:29] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:29] <MLow> morning
[09:30] <x-f> morning
[09:32] <MLow> so as far as decoding aprs in windows goes SP9UOB-Tom ?
[09:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> MLow: http://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsp9uob.verox.pl%2Fdstnc.html&act=url
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[09:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> i really have to translate the page into english
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[09:38] <MLow> its not bad
[09:39] <MLow> but i mean software decode
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[09:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> i dont using windows
[09:41] <MLow> ah
[09:41] <jcoxon> MLow, basically decoding aprs is a terrible minefield
[09:42] <MLow> jcoxon: wanna hear something funny
[09:42] <MLow> my crappy radio can't decode the packets coming out of my tracker
[09:42] <MLow> cheap china handheld
[09:43] <MLow> 493mm long piece of wire for an antenna on the tracker
[09:43] <jcoxon> so a big issue is that one of hte tones is a lot quieter then the other
[09:43] <jcoxon> due to filtering
[09:44] <MLow> but get this
[09:44] <MLow> piece of wire, 300mw, on my desk in my house
[09:45] <MLow> thats the TX
[09:45] <MLow> china HT can't decode, BUT 6.9 miles away a repeater is getting every packet and repeating it back and it's decoing just fine from his repeat
[09:45] <MLow> on my HT
[09:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> MLow: maybe you have to open squelch ?
[09:46] <MLow> it is open, but good thinkig :D
[09:46] <bertrik> or maybe the signal is too strong for your own receiver?
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[09:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> or audio level is to high
[09:47] <MLow> im looking at the waveform and it looks good, not maxing out or anything
[09:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> MLow: take one of spectrogram programs, get the FFT and observe energy at 1200 and 2200 Hz
[09:49] <MLow> *woosh* right over my head
[09:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> maybe tones are not exactly as in spec
[09:49] <MLow> gotcha
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[09:51] <MLow> the packets are so fast i can't figure out how to get a better look
[09:52] <nats`> hi boyz !
[09:52] <DL1SGP> salut nats`
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[09:52] <nats`> :)
[09:56] <MLow> im looking hard and my packets look pretty much the same as all the ones that decode
[10:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> MLow: is the bit period exactly 833.33 microsecond? Remember that is the synchronus transmission, and timing errors are additive (not like in RTTY where synchronisatoins occurs at start of every byte)
[10:03] <MLow> i wouldnt know
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[10:15] <jcoxon> have we ever worked out the pressure inside a floating latex balloon?
[10:17] <nats`> Good news everybody ! my ft-857 has the tcxo option \o/
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[10:31] <fsphil> aah sunday morning. day of doing very little
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[10:37] <Willdude123> fsphil: I hate sundays.
[10:38] <Willdude123> a) They come before monday
[10:38] <Willdude123> b) I have to do all my homework
[10:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: lol, i was today on my house's construction site :-)
[10:38] <Willdude123> c) We often have roast dinner for lunch. This means no dinner.
[10:39] <MLow> i have to learn to be more diligent in testing
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[10:39] <MLow> make one too many changes in code, all goes bad fast
[10:39] <fsphil> Willdude123: do it all on friday
[10:40] <Willdude123> fsphil: friday is reserved for Google+ hangouts with people my parents don't want me talking to.
[10:40] <fsphil> MLow: use git :)
[10:40] <mfa298> Roast dinner is a good dinner :)
[10:41] <fsphil> my linode host has suddenly gone very slow
[10:41] <fsphil> this is annoying
[10:42] <Willdude123> mfa298: except it's not dinner. It's lunch. Therefore we do not even have a lunch sized dinner
[10:42] <mfa298> tweetbot looks like it's on linode and just pinged out
[10:43] <Willdude123> Hangouts with people your parents don't want you talking to is actually quite fun.
[10:43] <Willdude123> Except there's a lot of stuff I can't say out loud
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[10:44] <fsphil_> impossible to type over ssh to it. wonder what's up
[10:44] <nats`> someone has stock of 2sc3102 transistor to repair a yaesu I don't want to order that in china
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[11:07] <craag> Is tweetbot back? (am on phone)
[11:08] <craag> ok, ill give it a kick
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[11:10] <Willdude123> craag: Oh I liked SIbot
[11:10] <Willdude123> It was just about standing on it's own 2 feet
[11:10] <SIbot> In real units: 2 ft = 0.61 m
[11:10] <Willdude123> See what I did there?
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[11:12] <craag> yes... not much i can do about that though!
[11:13] <craag> a bot that works out the context is a good deal more complex
[11:15] <fsphil> and likely to turn against its creators
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[11:17] <craag> hehe yes
[11:19] <Upu> well just implement if host of person saying it = USA then patronise
[11:20] <Darkside> lol
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[11:25] <chrisstubbs> Upu do you know if its possible to upload/download configuration from the MAX-6?
[11:25] <Upu> yes you can do it
[11:25] <Upu> use uCenter to work out the commands
[11:26] <es5nhc> USA or .uk
[11:26] <es5nhc> or whoever else in Europe is using Imperial units :D
[11:26] <chrisstubbs> I found a tutorial for doing it on the LEA-5H (setting it up for ardupilot)
[11:28] <mfa298> needs an insult module (like can be enabled in sudo)
[11:29] Action: mfa298 reads some scrollback
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[11:29] <daveake> mfa298 I quite agree. e.g. "My payload weighs 5lbs" --> "My payload needs to go on a diet"
[11:29] <SIbot> In real units: 5 lbs = 2.3 kg
[11:31] <mfa298> the ultimate for that module would be to look up the records table and report back the current minimum.
[11:31] <daveake> hah
[11:31] <daveake> "My payload weighs 57 times what it could"
[11:32] <mfa298> "my payload went to 50000 feet" --> "you *only* managed 15km. The record is 44km, go try again"
[11:32] <SIbot> In real units: 50000 ft = 15 km
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[11:33] <daveake> lol
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[11:35] <es5nhc> LOL
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[11:47] <cuddykid> had a call from police this morning - looks like they will pursue. Guess it's something different for them. Still doubtful they'll resolve IP to name/address
[11:49] <mfa298> it's probably also something they can fairly quickly start off, then see if anything useful comes back before putting lots of effort in.
[11:49] <cuddykid> yeah
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[11:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Perhaps we also need to think about what is said on the channel ... but hopefully only a one off ?
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[12:02] <S_Mark> with a warrant to the ISP then they could get name and address?
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[12:02] <S_Mark> Are you certain that they could have only got that search term from your board?
[12:02] <S_Mark> @ cuddykid
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[12:03] <Willdude123> Why is it there are so few ATUs for VHF/UHF?
[12:04] <daveake> We could do a fake flight, landing at the same location, with cuddykid posting about it on his blog :p
[12:04] <daveake> See if any dodgy types show up
[12:04] <Darkside> Willdude123: bcause its easier to make a resonant antenna?
[12:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> You don't need an ATU for a VHF/UHF beam as they are designed to have the correct impeadance 50Ohms normally
[12:05] <nats`> Geoff-G8DHE what happened on the channel ?
[12:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> On HF where you have random lengths of wire and also using the same length of wire for different bands then the impeadance changes and thus the need for an ATU
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[12:06] <mfa298> ATU's generaly make sense for HF as there's ~15 bands you could potentially use, so 15 antennas or designing an antenna that's resonant on all bands is a difficult challenge (but will probably give better results)
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: hi Tom have you fixed the GPS jumps?
[12:06] <Willdude123> daveake: I suppose that would be a good idea. Or now we've talked about it, they might pick it up.
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> Mybe give it more time after wakeup?
[12:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> nat's On;y that there was a lot of disussion about the flight be retrieved and if someone was monitoring then it was obvious especially with the final co-ordinates where the payload was
[12:07] <nats`> but yu talked about police
[12:07] <LeoBodnar> APRS track looked better than HAB telemetry
[12:07] <daveake> aiui there's no suggestion that whoever stole the camera etc came here first
[12:07] <mfa298> most of the VHF/UHF bands are harmonically related as well so easier to make one antenna for all (50*3 ~= 145, 145*3 ~= 435)
[12:07] <daveake> but ck's blog was hit by someone in the area, using the search time printed on his tracker
[12:08] <daveake> and given that this was 1 of only 3 hits yesterday, that does seem suspicious
[12:08] <nats`> someone is stealing balloon ?
[12:08] <daveake> nah they left the balloon!
[12:08] <cuddykid> S_Mark: well the term was "habe flight computer v3" which was printed on the board. I don't know why anyone would search that to begin with. Then for it to be at the right time, in the right area
[12:08] <daveake> indeed
[12:08] <nats`> oO
[12:08] <cuddykid> came from a yahoo search
[12:08] <nats`> what a bunch of fuckers...
[12:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> daveake, No but unless they were lucky to see it falling from the sky and choose to park, find it open it, etc it seems more likely that someone knew where it was ?
[12:09] <S_Mark> ah ok I see. There is the possibility that some nasty person just stumbled across it?
[12:09] <cuddykid> yep
[12:09] <S_Mark> true
[12:09] <LeoBodnar> did same IP address show up on snus log?
[12:09] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE In that case they have better chase skills than most of us do!
[12:09] <S_Mark> wonder if IP was broadband or mobile
[12:09] <fsphil> mind the language nats` :)
[12:09] <cuddykid> IP has been checked for all spacenear etc logs and not showing up
[12:09] <cuddykid> S_Mark: broadband - pipex
[12:09] <mfa298> I think it's most likely that someone just saw it land, or saw it in the hedge after landing, seem's unlikely they saw the chat/snus etc.
[12:09] <nats`> yep fsphil but I don't know more nice term why they would steal a balloon ?!
[12:10] <fsphil> boy that would've been ackward if it did turn out to be someone here cuddykid
[12:10] <Willdude123> This is why we need a remotely enabled speaker on there that can say "WARNING WARNING PROPERTY OF NORTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT. DO NOT STEAL IF YOU WANT TO LIVE"
[12:10] <daveake> cuddykid has the IP been checked in the #ha logs?
[12:10] <nats`> that's pretty useless
[12:10] <cuddykid> daveake: don't think so
[12:10] <daveake> ok
[12:10] <cuddykid> what is #ha ?
[12:10] <daveake> er, here
[12:10] <nats`> highaltitude
[12:10] <fsphil> short name for this channel
[12:10] <cuddykid> oh!
[12:10] <cuddykid> haha, yes
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> it would be awkward if IP is reissued to someone here :/
[12:11] <Willdude123> cuddykid: so was it yours that got stolen?
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> I'm on Pipex near Northampton oO
[12:11] <S_Mark> I reckon that is quite likely
[12:11] <S_Mark> that they were here
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> Or whatever it is called now TalkTalk?
[12:11] <S_Mark> how else would they have got it
[12:12] <nats`> and why not random encounter
[12:12] <daveake> aiui it landed near a path or road
[12:12] <mfa298> S_Mark: it looks like it landed on what could be a fairly popular footpath
[12:12] <nats`> I mean people walking around and got the balloon falling near them
[12:12] <S_Mark> right ok
[12:12] <cuddykid> Willdude123: yeah
[12:12] <S_Mark> sorry wasn't here yesterday!
[12:12] <S_Mark> catching up
[12:12] <daveake> Also, how long between landing and (whoever it was that was chasing) got to it
[12:12] <daveake> ?
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> To go get a payload is quite a mission, it was probably a random occurrence of somebody seeing it land and being a d*head
[12:12] <cuddykid> police think it was more likely someone who knew what they were doing but I don't know really
[12:12] <S_Mark> really hope you get it sorted
[12:13] <S_Mark> bet that was an interesting convo
[12:13] <nats`> cuddykid you had special equipment in it ?
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[12:13] <cuddykid> daveake: not too long - about 40mins or so
[12:13] <cuddykid> nats`: go pro
[12:13] <nats`> owww fuck
[12:13] <nats`> :|
[12:13] <cuddykid> about £500 worth of equip in total
[12:13] <daveake> ok well 40 mins is plenty of time for a random person to stumble across it
[12:13] <nats`> I think that's the goal of all that
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[12:13] <fsphil> nats`: no swearing pls :)
[12:13] <daveake> "Officer, I lost a space probe what I launched"
[12:14] <cuddykid> had a nice email from a dutch company who are willing to sponsor cost of next flight
[12:14] <nats`> the gopro itself would explain why a total ignorant of what a balloon is would take it
[12:14] <nats`> sorry fsphil :|
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[12:14] <Willdude123> cuddykid: how did they find you?
[12:14] <cuddykid> yeah, apparently in the 25 years of being in police this is the most weird theft he's heard of
[12:14] <fsphil> I'm going to launch a picture of a gopro
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[12:14] <Willdude123> Wonder if I could get AR insurance that covers HABs
[12:14] <cuddykid> Willdude123: twitter I believe
[12:14] <nats`> I have a little idea there is a mass storage device in the gopro ?
[12:15] <nats`> if so for next flight that could be possible to do a little piece of software conecting to a server when the gorpo is plugged in
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if your house contents insurance might cover that case
[12:15] <mfa298> Willdude123: I think it's unlikely that many insurers would cover you for something that get's sent to that sort of altitude and you can't say exactly where it would land 1 week before launch.
[12:16] <cuddykid> no idea why they would've thiefed the tracker as well though - guess whoever thought it might be worth something
[12:16] <mfa298> and if they did offer it chances are the premiums would cost more than you'll ever get back from them
[12:16] <Willdude123> cuddykid: I take it they took the batteries out
[12:16] <LeoBodnar> I guess in a hurry you grab whatever looks unusual
[12:16] <cuddykid> Willdude123: yeah and they turned off gsm tracker
[12:16] <nats`> oO
[12:17] <nats`> ok so they knew what they were doing
[12:17] <cuddykid> sounds like it
[12:17] <mfa298> maybe we need a gps/gsm tracker with internal power and a dummy battery. So they think they've removed power, but havn't really
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Was there anything large on the box to indicate it wasn't simply abandoned?
[12:17] <LeoBodnar> latex chute and polustyrene look like junk
[12:17] <daveake> now if that was an aprs tracker, and they switched it on ............
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: I could reasonably find a box and assume tht it was abandoned.
[12:17] <fsphil> mmmm
[12:17] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: big notice to say call xxxxx asap - reward if found etc - which was ripped off the box
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:17] <nats`> SpeedEvil with all those stuff inside ?
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> nats`: sure.
[12:18] <LeoBodnar> so would this GPS tracker send coords when it is turned on next time?
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[12:18] <SpeedEvil> nats`: The met office abandons sondes regularly.
[12:18] <LeoBodnar> GPS/GSM?
[12:18] <cuddykid> yeah
[12:18] <nats`> oky
[12:18] <MLow> my question is, why didnt they just grab the rope, kinda roll it together and run, why pick and choose
[12:18] <cuddykid> bb in 10
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> But if there was a big notice - that changes things.
[12:18] <MLow> and go to the trouble of tearing a label off??
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> MLow: simply not knowing it was actually being tracked. Why take the contents if you're not sure you want them.
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> If they took the note I reckon they will play with it a few days and give you a call
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[12:19] <mfa298> maybe we should change the standard markings to: Dangerous scientific experiment, dedicated recovering team with Hazmat are on route, please call 07xxx xxxxxx
[12:19] <daveake> lol
[12:19] <nats`> mfa298 Mexican style :D
[12:19] <nats`> don't steal our cobalt 60
[12:19] <nats`> !
[12:19] <fsphil> have it make a buzzing sound
[12:20] <fsphil> that gets louder when it moves
[12:20] <daveake> and issue smoke
[12:20] <MLow> i should do a video of my terror inducing buzzer
[12:20] <daveake> maybe one of those electronic cigarettes as used in that coach
[12:20] <fsphil> lol
[12:20] <number10> just have a label saying live images are being received by trackers
[12:20] <nats`> cuddykid you mean they let the balloon and just took the box ?
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[12:20] <MLow> they took everything but the box lol
[12:20] <fsphil> nats`: just the contents. the box was left behind
[12:20] <mfa298> nats`: they broken the box open and just took the contents
[12:21] <LeoBodnar> smile you are on camera!
[12:21] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbsAFK
[12:21] <nats`> oky so clearly burglar
[12:21] <nats`> :|
[12:21] <daveake> SSDV could have provided some evidence here :)
[12:21] <RocketBoy> I always put REWARD on my labels - in the hope that it will be seen as a better alternative ti niching it
[12:21] <RocketBoy> nicking
[12:21] <nats`> maybe a big twitter call could help but not even sure
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[12:21] <nats`> put the IP on reddit :D
[12:22] <nats`> you'll have name pretty quickly :D
[12:22] <daveake> lol
[12:22] <mfa298> have a message of "smile your on camera: ssdv/mugshots" and have a mugshots page on the ssdv site to make them think twice.
[12:22] <fsphil> this is where a live gsm video stream would've been handy
[12:22] <MLow> im going to stick with terror buzzer
[12:22] <DL1SGP> maybe a low altitude ballon with a payload that releases little notice papers all over that damn place so that every landlord gets the news :)
[12:22] <nats`> "Retriever agent have the autorisation to kill at sight"
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> I think we are over-reacting
[12:23] <MLow> a buzzer is over-reacting?
[12:23] <fsphil> ninja-squirrels
[12:23] <daveake> "tracked by the NSA"
[12:23] <daveake> well, probably is
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[12:23] <LeoBodnar> what if buzzer lands somewhere close to somebody's window but impossible to retrieve
[12:23] <MLow> your depressing me dave
[12:24] <bertrik> I wouldn't judge it so quickly as malice, stupidity is much more common :)
[12:24] <nats`> LeoBodnar funny prank :D
[12:24] <MLow> LeoBodnar: problem?
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> Maybe it WAS NSA?
[12:24] <fsphil> I like the planet you live on bertrik, can I join you? :)
[12:24] <mfa298> buzzer could make it more likely to get stolen as well, would make people more aware of something that's partly hidden
[12:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> The video of its recovery is still on Flikr http://www.flickr.com/photos/rinioth/11369034225/in/photostream/
[12:24] <RocketBoy> Personally I think a buzzer is a bad idea unless it can be remotely activated
[12:25] <RocketBoy> its just going to alter people to the payloads presence
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> MLow: if you can't turn it off it will irritate locals so much you won't be able to retrieve it in peace (or piece )
[12:26] <MLow> i take it your not from where i am
[12:26] <LeoBodnar> no :D
[12:27] <mfa298> MLow: HAB's are generally attracted to where you don't want them to land: Water, Trees, Power Lines, Dodgy Locals
[12:27] <RocketBoy> yeah its going to be quite different in con tries with high population density to low
[12:28] <RocketBoy> for example doing having in the large open areas of the us is going to be quite different fro the UK
[12:28] <RocketBoy> HABing
[12:29] <cuddykid> RocketBoy: I had reward on outside and on another laminating card inside - no luck though
[12:29] <Darkside> RocketBoy: i can attest to this
[12:29] <RocketBoy> :-(
[12:29] <Darkside> HABbing in australia is different
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[12:29] <Darkside> we have had landing issues though
[12:29] <MLow> 256 people km^2 in the UK
[12:30] <MLow> my state, 38 km^2
[12:30] <fsphil> the density is greater in the south
[12:30] <Darkside> our most common landing issue is landing in a farmrs field, and having to find the farmer
[12:30] <fsphil> scotland is mostly empty space
[12:30] <Darkside> as we dont have right of way laws here
[12:30] <cuddykid> going to have a look through the site logs today and last night to see if they came back for another look on site
[12:31] <MLow> http://mapfight.appspot.com/gb-vs-texas/united-kingdom-texas-us-size-comparison
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[12:32] <MLow> i have noticed something
[12:33] <Darkside> quite and achievement
[12:33] <daveake> cuddykid are the police going to check the box (what's left of it) for prints?
[12:33] <Darkside> an*
[12:33] <MLow> my laptops soundcard is better than my desktops
[12:33] <cuddykid> daveake: don't think so - I believe in their eyes it's not worth time/effort for ~£500
[12:33] <daveake> ok
[12:34] <daveake> so I needn't have worn latex gloves then :)
[12:34] <cuddykid> haha
[12:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Population of Texas 23Million, population of UK 63<illion
[12:34] <cuddykid> i just wish if I could know who was behind 81.178.140.16 yesterday at 14:20..
[12:35] <cuddykid> I think that would lead to whoever it was
[12:35] <RocketBoy> well it may be the same today - my IP is very sticky
[12:35] <nats`> it's a usa IP
[12:35] <adamgreig> uhm, what? definitely a UK IP
[12:35] <nats`> ohh no sorry wrong ip
[12:35] <nats`> tiscali UK
[12:35] <MLow> it was the americans!
[12:35] <craag> I did some scanning of the ip last night
[12:35] <MLow> the rebels stole the gopro
[12:36] <craag> Looks like it was running Toredo (IPv6 tunnel)
[12:36] <nats`> craag I can nmap it not the same country I should not have too much trouble
[12:36] <craag> And timing analysis reckoned it was a *BSD box
[12:36] <nats`> craag on that point either it's a badly configured BSD or a lie
[12:36] <Darkside> wouldnt it hav most likely been a mobile phon?
[12:36] <craag> yeah... timing analysis can be wrong a lot
[12:36] <nats`> any paranoid admin on bsd use some trick to false trigger the OS recognition
[12:37] <craag> but it did have udp port 3544 open
[12:37] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/xGQWc8yh <- that's the arrival http header of visitor
[12:38] <nats`> so you think this guy found the box and search to know from where it comes ?
[12:39] <cuddykid> I think, whoeever it was, got home, had a look at tracker and decided to search the wording on the tracker as he/she was inquisitive
[12:39] <mfa298> most likely it's a bog standard adsl modem/router so won't have much open.
[12:39] <nats`> mfa298 in that case telling BSD that's weird
[12:40] <nats`> they are usually badly configured linux
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[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> It landed at 12:30 ish, G8TMV was on site at about 14:00 and the search on Yahoo was at 14:48
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[12:47] <Willdude123> Oh fudge. I just turned my tablet on in front of my sister and there was something she probably shouldnt have seen on there
[12:47] <Willdude123> So, how's our detective work going?
[12:50] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: lol http://imgur.com/a/ZJTDQ didn't see that coming
[12:58] <RocketBoy> humm: OSX - best unix in the world
[12:58] Action: RocketBoy feels smug - buts suspects its not true
[12:59] <fsphil> lol
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[13:00] <nats`> nice troll
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[13:01] <fsphil> I installed linux on my mac. probably made enemies in the apple world, but thankfully they can't find me
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[13:19] <mfa298> related: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=716836874995788&set=a.206324462713701.57526.178370992175715
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[13:39] <Hiena> Greetings!
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[13:44] <SpeedEvil> There is a clear lesson in what's happened recently.
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> Conceal all of the expensive bits inside the structure of the box.
[13:44] <Hiena> I have a non HAB quesion for the british guys. Maybe it's just the inhaled acetic acid, but an old theme song stuck in my head, and can't remember the title of the show. It was and technology history show, where each episode was themed around some invetions (airships, locomotives, ships). I think, it was produced by the Thames television, and maybe the title was Time to... Anybody remembers about it?
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[13:47] <fsphil> how old
[13:47] <fsphil> ?
[13:48] <Hiena> End of 70's or 80's. I watched it as kid.
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[13:50] <wd8mnv> could be on youtube?
[13:50] <eroomde> could you record yourself humming the theme tune?
[13:50] <eroomde> 80s good tv shows in that vein:
[13:51] <fsphil> tomorrows world was about that time
[13:52] <bertrik> look around you?
[13:52] <fsphil> haha
[13:52] <fsphil> that show was great
[13:52] <wd8mnv> blake's 7
[13:52] <fsphil> timewatch
[13:54] <Hiena> It started with a single recorder/flute song, which moved some complex music.
[13:54] <eroomde> Secret Life of Machines
[13:54] <eroomde> James Burke's Engineering Connections
[13:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> hey SIbot how fast is 2 furlongs per 2 weeks ;-)
[13:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> fail ;-)
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[13:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.google.pl/#q=2+furlongs+per+2+weeks+in+km%2Fh
[13:57] <solarballoonman> @ cuddykid. Any news on the recovery of the Sat flight?
[13:58] <eroomde> are you aware it got stolen solarballoonman ?
[13:58] <cuddykid> nope, in the hands of police now who sound like they're pursuing but don't hold too much hope
[13:58] <cuddykid> I believe they're going to make a request to ISP for name/address
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> look around you was the second best tv series ever
[13:59] <solarballoonman> Heck, hope they can get it back for you.
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> second only to brasseye
[13:59] <solarballoonman> No need to go look for it then. Posted on UKHAS that i might.
[13:59] <eroomde> with you Laurenceb_
[14:00] <adamgreig> cuddykid: so that IP went on spacenear.us/tracker following a link from your blog at 22:39:58Z and stayed on it for a minute or two but otherwise have never interacted with habhub infrastructure
[14:00] <adamgreig> i need to get look around you series 2 on dvd
[14:00] <adamgreig> only seen series 1
[14:01] <cuddykid> oh right, didn't realise they visited my blog again last night, I'll have a look in logs
[14:02] <LazyLeopard> Any guesses whether it was just an opportunist, or someone who used the tracker?
[14:02] <cuddykid> looks like opportunist if it is whoever is behind this IP
[14:02] <daveake> I think adamgreig has just shown its the latter
[14:02] <adamgreig> uhm
[14:02] <adamgreig> do you mean former, daveake
[14:02] <daveake> so i do :)
[14:03] <cuddykid> yep
[14:03] <daveake> my memory obviously only goes back 2 lines
[14:03] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[14:03] <solarballoonman> Unless they have turned it off, why not see if you can get others to try and track it again. It could help the police.
[14:04] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, the former is unfortunate, but the latter would be a worrying development...
[14:04] <cuddykid> perhaps I should post a big notice on the blog so when they pop on again (if they do) they might turn it in :P
[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Or they dump it never to be seen again .. and deny knowing anything about it
[14:05] <cuddykid> oh yes
[14:05] <solarballoonman> Cuddykid: Good idea.
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[14:05] <cuddykid> Geoff-G8DHE makes a good point though
[14:06] <cuddykid> afk
[14:06] <solarballoonman> Got to go, work to do.
[14:06] <daveake> you could do an ip-specific page :)
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[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If the police can get the address and find anything at the house then ....
[14:06] <daveake> that's prolly the only hope now
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[14:07] <LazyLeopard> Write a long blog about it but don't mention the info the cops might be following up on...
[14:07] <daveake> Or watch ebay for a new advert "1 GoPro, has some mud on it"
[14:08] <adamgreig> got the gopro serial number?
[14:09] <mfa298> maybe start off with a blog post saying when recovered only the box and parachute were found and that the electronics and contact details were taken so you're now waiting for the phone call.
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[14:24] <LeoBodnar> cuddykid: why don't you post on the blog nice well tempered plea for return. As soon as you say "stolen" or "police" the chance of it being returned/found will plummet
[14:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Agreed
[14:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> also run a slow ping on the IP address, log the resulkts and perhaps send yourself an alert when it appears.
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[14:33] <SpeedEvil> And setup an ebay search for used gopros of that model to your email
[14:34] <cuddykid> "Or watch ebay for a new advert "1 GoPro, has some mud on it"" - I keep checking :P
[14:35] <cuddykid> adamgreig: should be on the box right? I have the box - I will look in a bit
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[14:35] <adamgreig> yes
[14:36] <adamgreig> if you have it tell the police
[14:39] <nats`> Geoff-G8DHE sadly the IP will change
[14:39] <nats`> the dsl line is a dynamic one
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Normally the IP address will be re-issuied, unless they run out, by the DHCP server
[14:41] <mfa298> except I don't think ADSL uses DHCP, it's done via the PPP layer and possibly radius so may not follow the same rules as DHCP should (not that all dhcp servers do the right thing)
[14:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> agreed, but it was re-issuied to the same address later that evening
[14:42] <nats`> mine change each 2 days about
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[14:43] <mfa298> most likely it's on an adsl router which may not get turned off.
[14:43] <mfa298> at least not during the daytime.
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[14:44] <mfa298> it should keep the same address until the ppp link goes down which will either be them turning the router off, or a reconnect on the line
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[14:45] <nats`> uhhmm the dslam can force it
[14:45] <nats`> that's the case on my line
[14:45] <mfa298> nats`: that's what I meant by a reconnect on the line (remote end forcing it, interference etc.)
[14:46] <nats`> :)
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[14:54] <cuddykid> done a quick blog post in the hope that whoever has nicked it visits again http://habe.acudworth.co.uk/blog/
[14:54] <DL1SGP1> well done cuddykid
[14:55] <mfa298> do we all need to register our ip' somewhere so you know which logs to discount !
[14:55] <cuddykid> haha
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[14:56] <es5nhc> I think I can be easily discounted, I am in .ee :D
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[15:01] <Laurenceb_> maybe we should password protect the tracker
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> or perhaps password protection once payload goes <5Km or something
[15:02] <mfa298> not sure what that would acheive other than annoying everyone
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> well it kind of looks like someone is using the tracker to nick stuff
[15:03] <mfa298> In this case it seems more likely that that found it on the ground or saw it land
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> maybe..
[15:04] <Willdude123> mfa298: I figured I may as well put a wanted for an FT-857 in RadCom and see what comes up. It seems there's often a yaesu Ft-8x7 of some sort in there
[15:04] <mfa298> the hit on cuddykid's blog was a couple of hours after landing and the snus hit was last night several hours after the hit on his blog
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> ah
[15:05] <mfa298> Willdude123: what other radios have you looked at before deciding to get an 857.
[15:06] <Willdude123> I had a look at icom and kenwood but most HF/VHF/UHF radios seem to be very very high end ones
[15:07] <Willdude123> Will look around ML&S first though
[15:07] <mfa298> I'm not sure they're that much more high end than the 857.
[15:07] <Willdude123> Apparently Mr. Lynch himself said that it was very popular with new amateurs
[15:07] <Willdude123> They seem to be so in terms of price
[15:08] <mfa298> things like the ts-2000 and ic-7000 have a few more features (various levels of dsp) but that can be useful on HF.
[15:08] <nats`> Willdude123 if you take a 857
[15:08] <nats`> try the one with DSP option or directly a 857D
[15:09] <eroomde> ML&S are good at selling you stuff
[15:11] <Willdude123> I meant 857D
[15:11] <Willdude123> eroomde: in a good or bad way?
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[15:18] <eroomde> bad way
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[15:22] <mfa298> hmmm, quickly scanning the FT-857D manual I'm glad I got the TS-2000 as a main rig. Looks like the menu system is very similar to the FT-817 which is a bit of a pain if you want to change anything quickly
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[15:25] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, Yaesu menu hell...
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[15:29] <mfa298> I suspect I've got better options for CAT control on the kenwood (almost 30 pages of CAT commands compared to 2 pages for the 857)
[15:31] <LazyLeopard> Very few competitors in the light weight easily portable HF/VHF/UHF rig market, though...
[15:31] <mikestir> I need to start thinking about radios too - one of the local clubs finally ran an exam :)
[15:32] <mfa298> I'm not sure that Willdude is necessarily looking at portable.
[15:32] <mfa298> 817/957/897 do seem to be some of the better options in the portable field though.
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[15:34] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Well, there's very little competition for the 817.
[15:34] <mfa298> if I was getting another Yaesu I think I'd probably look at the 897 with the batteries - although my current 817 generally does for portable use when I use it.
[15:34] <LazyLeopard> ...but even it's a bit heavy for a multi-day hike.
[15:35] <mfa298> I've not really taken mine out walking much yet, need to replace the batteries
[15:35] <LazyLeopard> I'd skip the batteries, and look for some decent LiFePo alternative...
[15:36] <fsphil> http://www.m0lmk.co.uk/2013/11/13/ft-857-portable-manpack/
[15:36] <LazyLeopard> ...but the 817 needs its ones.
[15:36] <fsphil> yaesu could do amazing things with an 817 v2
[15:37] <mfa298> I'm wondering what to do in that realm, I'd half considered getting a set of high capacity AA cells to use - would be better than most of the NiMH packs available.
[15:37] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[15:37] <LazyLeopard> That's a lot of extra copper...
[15:37] <fsphil> yea
[15:38] <fsphil> I'll not be using my 857 portable
[15:40] <eroomde> i have an 817 in my bugout bag
[15:41] <mfa298> That doesn't look like a good option for any real hiking (unless you want to go for military grade fitness)
[15:41] <Willdude123> eroomde: Is it still worth visiting them?
[15:41] <fsphil> 857 would be good for a car
[15:42] <eroomde> Willdude123: yes
[15:42] <eroomde> just know what you want
[15:42] <eroomde> rather than have them try and sell you something you're not sure you want
[15:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The main thing is try a few out for controls and ease of use before deciding.
[15:42] <Willdude123> The loads of menus might get annoying and it could perhaps do with more CAT commands
[15:43] <Willdude123> But in terms of value for money
[15:43] <Willdude123> It seems pretty good
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[15:50] <mfa298> Willdude123: I'd have a good look at things like the Kenwood TS-2000, Icom IC-7000 and maybe also the FT-847, also work out what you need to get with them or not.
[15:51] <eroomde> IC-7000 is a lot of radio for a first radio
[15:51] <mfa298> For instance with the TS-2000 I decided I could do without a HF SWR meter as the radio had a reasonable one built in and with some antennas I could get away with no ATU (again as the radio had one built in)
[15:52] <Willdude123> I think the price has to be less or equal to the price of the FT-857
[15:52] <Willdude123> TS-2000 is way out of my budget
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[15:52] <mfa298> you also need to consider all the bits you need to buy!
[15:53] <mfa298> 857 + HF SWR + ATU might cost similar to the TS-2000 (which has HF SWR and basic ATU built in)
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[15:54] <mfa298> but also consider if you need diplexers or not for 6/2/70
[15:55] <Willdude123> I think the 857d has a built in SWR meter
[15:56] <acidtech> yes
[15:56] <Willdude123> Might be able to get an LDG lt-100 for around £100 used
[15:56] <DL1SGP1> it also has an analog outlet to attach your own SWR meter, there is the ones sold by Yaesu but if you study the levels on that output you might create something more pretty :)
[15:56] <mfa298> it looks like it has an indication of SWR (high/low) but I'm not sure how detailed it is.
[15:57] <Willdude123> Not sure if I really care much beyond Hi/Lo
[15:57] <DL1SGP1> it is pretty detailed, of course no number readings, rather a bar-indicator. it also has a huge flashing swr warning indicator if you are totally mistuned
[15:58] <mfa298> FT-847 looks like it might be a fairly decent radio although not sure if it has any CAT controls - does look like it has 4m though
[15:58] <DL1SGP1> I would say if you are in doubt about the rig best way may be to ask somebody who has one for a tiny demo
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[15:59] <mfa298> Willdude123: personally I'd build up a shopping list of what you need and what might be useful with a variety of radios and also list the pro's and con's of each set of options (cost, features etc). Then go and try out a few radios ideally with an antenna connected so you can see how they work in real life.
[16:00] <Willdude123> mfa298: can't find a single one for sale.
[16:00] <Willdude123> Not quite sure what I need other than hf/vhf/uhf with up to 100 watts
[16:01] <mfa298> well you'll find they all have different power levels on 6/2/70 (the advertised 100W is usually only on HF)
[16:02] <mfa298> some may have extra bands or ability to have extra bands (847 looks to have 4m, ts-2000 can have 23cm)
[16:02] <acidtech> 50w on vhf and 20w on uhf
[16:03] <mfa298> some may have multiple tuners (ts-2000 has a 2nd reciever for vhf/uhf only)
[16:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you going to have aerials for all those bands as well ? You will need rotators for anything serious above HF, a colinear might be adequate but for 6m/2m70cms but not if your in a poor site.
[16:03] <mfa298> some may have better quality DSP (I think the IC-7000 may win there)
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[16:05] <mfa298> different sets of Antenna outputs (TS2000 has total of 4: 2xHF, 2m, 70cm) (857 looks to have total of 2: Hf and 2/70). Which is better could depend on your needs.
[16:06] <Willdude123> This is so confusing. Ima take a break. Will talk to Tim who's taking me to ML&S next sat
[16:06] <Willdude123> Off to post RSGB app.
[16:07] <mfa298> what you'll generally find is different radios will win in different areas (I generally wish the TS2000 had a combined 2/70 antenna connector) so you need to work out which bits are more important to you.
[16:08] <mfa298> and think about what atennas you're going to connect to it.
[16:08] <fsphil> 857s 6m output is on the HF port, which is annoying
[16:08] <fsphil> for a 6m/2m/70cm colinear
[16:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> also a factor to borne in mind is the cost of Co-ax runs, it very rapidly builds up if you have any length!
[16:09] <acidtech> Bars SWR
[16:09] <acidtech> 0 1.0 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 1 1.2 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 2 1.3 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 3 1.5 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 4 1.8 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 5 2.1 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 6 2.5 : 1
[16:09] <acidtech> 7 3.0 : 1
[16:10] <fsphil> pastebin :)
[16:10] <acidtech> ok )
[16:11] <mfa298> I think most radios put 6m on the HF port, although at least with the TS-2000 I have 2 HF ports so can use a triplexer into the HF, 2m & 70cms ports to connect a tri-band vertical
[16:11] <mfa298> even worse if you run ladder line for HF, you have to think about metal objects nearby as well.
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[16:15] <Willdude123> All these radios are very confusing. Will have to talk to a ham IRL
[16:18] <mfa298> large piece of paper or spreadsheet is probably the way to go
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[16:20] <Willdude123> It's so tempting just to go for the FT-857 because so many people recommend it and I have just enough money for it
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[16:21] <fsphil> you'll also need a good PSU for it
[16:21] <fsphil> don't forge tthat
[16:22] <mfa298> just remember it's potentially an investment you're going to use for a long time, so it's worth trying to get it right, and sometimes spending a bit more is worth it.
[16:22] <fsphil> at full power it'll sink quite a bit of current
[16:22] <mfa298> you can easily spend £100+ on a decent new PSU
[16:23] <Willdude123> mfa298: that's true
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[16:23] <Willdude123> I think the most I can really expect to pay for the whole thing is £1000
[16:24] <mfa298> and for an old PSU you may find you need to replace components (I've had the output capacitors fail - they were only rated for 1000 hours operation)
[16:25] <daveake> 1000? wow, that's ridiculuous
[16:25] <daveake> or some similar word
[16:25] <mfa298> I think £1k got me my TS-2000, new PSU and G5RV and possibly a might have had some change left over for a cheap colinear.
[16:25] <Upu> yay I finally found an old image I'd been after for ages : http://i.imgur.com/bhzPfyq.jpg
[16:26] <daveake> what happened when you pressed it?
[16:26] <mfa298> is that the go faster button ?
[16:26] <Upu> exactly what every IT person every thought
[16:27] <Upu> I think it generated an NMI and crashed the system
[16:27] <Upu> but they never documented it properly
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> lol "All the screws with * mark are for service people only"
[16:28] <mfa298> looks like a fairly old system
[16:28] <Willdude123> I am actually having second thoughts about VHF/UHF
[16:28] <mfa298> 2 serial ports and what looks like a hole for an AT keyboard
[16:28] <Willdude123> It sounds a bit boring
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[16:29] <mfa298> there can be some interestign stuff on vhf/uhf, just not always on FM
[16:29] <mfa298> but a white stick vertical won't be as good for the interesting stuff
[16:31] <Willdude123> Why?
[16:32] <mfa298> SSB tends to be horizontally polarised, FM is vertical (I think that came about from cars where vertical is much easier)
[16:32] <mfa298> and ssb on 2/70 can have some pretty decent range if you have a big antenna (but that gets more costly)
[16:33] <Willdude123> Upu why did it have a do not press button?
[16:33] <Willdude123> I'll think about it
[16:34] <fsphil> as bad as the "This door must remain closed" signs
[16:34] <mfa298> plus with a radio covering 70cm's you can track balloons
[16:35] <fsphil> or satellites
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[16:37] <Willdude123> mfa298: I have a 70cms covering receiver anyhow
[16:38] <mfa298> with a tx you can try sending data to the ISS or via other satellites as well (although again bigger antennas might help)
[16:39] <mfa298> although you could look at HF/6 only radios and see if that gives more options.
[16:40] <mfa298> I don't really know that market so much (apart from reviews of some of the newer ones - but they're gonna be expensive)
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[17:08] <Maxell> please SIbot tell me what 3 oz is
[17:08] <Maxell> k
[17:08] <Maxell> 3 lbs might be
[17:08] <SIbot> In real units: 3 lbs = 1.4 kg
[17:08] <Maxell> k
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[17:09] <LeoBodnar> 1 psi
[17:09] <fsphil> I think 3oz is about the same as 2.8nz
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[17:26] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaQTSTrbT3w
[17:27] <Willdude123> Is it me or is thee
[17:27] <Willdude123> Or are most HF/VHF/UHF setups very costly?
[17:28] <chrisstubbs> My ft-817 was £300 second hand from waters and stanton
[17:28] <mfa298> £500-£1000 isn't costly
[17:28] <mfa298> some people will spend £5k on a HF/6 radio (new)
[17:29] <PA3WEG> what is your costly limit?
[17:31] <gonzo___> though, the same people who spend 5k on a radio are also the ones who whinge about a few quid for club fees
[17:31] <mfa298> hmmm, the FT-2000 didn't last long by the looks of it.
[17:32] <gonzo___> if you go to the 1960's, a simple tx (not a transciver) would cost the equiv of 2k
[17:33] <gonzo___> and you can get an 8x7 for £300-500
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[17:33] <mfa298> looks like you can even spend more than £5k on a HF/6 radio http://www.hamradio.co.uk/amateur-radio-main-equipment-base-station-radio-yaesu-base-station-radio/yaesu/yaesu-ftdx9000d-pd-2338.php
[17:33] <gonzo___> so the real world cost of a station has come down by an order of magnitude in a generationn
[17:34] <gonzo___> if you went and spoke to racal, (if the existed) you could spend far more
[17:34] <acidtech> for this money it is better to buy http://www.milweb.net/webverts/63139/
[17:34] <acidtech> R140
[17:34] <mfa298> I can remember buying my first handheld almost 20 years ago and that was fairly cheap at around £150 (and 2m only)
[17:35] <gonzo___> with the chinese getting on the act, you can buy a dual band V/U tcvr that is almodt cheap enough to not bother bending down to pick up when you drop it
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:36] <gonzo___> ditto. an ft23 for £120 and that was 2nd hand
[17:37] <gonzo___> ('course, we 'ad it tough........)
[17:37] <Willdude123> mfa298: woah
[17:37] <Willdude123> Just starting my spreadsheet
[17:37] <Willdude123> There really isn't much to compare
[17:38] <Willdude123> I think what I should dois get an FT-857, find what I like doing the most and then get better suited equipmnet for that.
[17:38] <gonzo___> what to buy depends wht you are trying to do and if you are going for the full licence soon
[17:38] <gonzo___> 857 is not a bad start
[17:39] <Willdude123> Going for intermediate in feb
[17:39] <gonzo___> good plan
[17:39] <Willdude123> So full will probably be around this time next year
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[17:39] <gonzo___> then fiull in april?
[17:39] <Willdude123> April?
[17:39] <Willdude123> The full ones are normally around this time of year
[17:40] <mfa298> 857's does at least look to be fairly available on the 2nd hand market and buying ATU/PSU/SWR meter will be useful with any radio.
[17:40] <mfa298> the Full's are around every 2 months
[17:41] <mfa298> but it's likely to be more than a weekend course
[17:42] <mfa298> Dates for the advanced exam http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-training/advanced-examination-dates/
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[17:42] <mfa298> although you're also limited to when any local clubs are running it as well.
[17:44] <acidtech> You also can get full US license in the uk
[17:44] <LeoBodnar> Haha I had R-140 20 years ago
[17:45] <gonzo___> the full loicence is more of a self study thing.
[17:45] <LeoBodnar> lovely and warm
[17:46] <acidtech> and powerful (gu43 tube)
[17:46] <gonzo___> thefull exams may not be in paril, but some time soon after you do the 2e0
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> classic cold war stuff
[17:49] <mfa298> March 1st, or May 2nd for the Full
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[17:52] <acidtech> Is morse test mandatory getting full licence?
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> in Germany not
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know about the UK
[17:53] <mfa298> dont think so any more
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> no acidtech
[17:53] <eroomde> not
[17:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> not in Poland
[17:53] <mfa298> just morse appreciation at the foundation level
[17:53] <acidtech> what do you mean?
[17:54] <mfa298> i.e. can you decode some really slow morse, that can be repeated several times, and you can use a lookup table to help.
[17:54] <gonzo___> they dropped the morse about 10yrs ago
[17:54] <gonzo___> (and that was 10 yrs too late)
[17:54] <mfa298> I'm not sure it's possible to actually fail the morse appreciation test.
[17:54] <gonzo___> the foundation is slow enough for you to look it up off a bit of paper
[17:55] <gonzo___> and even that is really not neccesary. As why teach morse these days. no legal req for it
[17:55] <acidtech> ok )
[17:55] <mfa298> I think most people write down the dots and dashes first then work it out afterwards.
[17:55] <mfa298> it seems a fairly pointless test.
[17:57] <gonzo___> licence wise it has no place. it's prob juse there to pander to the crusty old gits who think that cw is the measure of tech ability
[17:57] <mfa298> then again for some candidates most of the practical skills seems a bit pointless.
[17:57] <eroomde> yes, it did feel a bit pointless
[17:57] <eroomde> very slow and you just transcribed then coded
[17:58] <gonzo___> </soap-box>
[17:58] <eroomde> about as useful as saying 'find the entry on onions in this dictionary'
[17:58] <eroomde> which tests your ability to use an index
[17:58] <gonzo___> ah, a greenhouse reference text!
[17:58] <eroomde> well, encyclopedia probably, don't need an index for a dictionary
[17:59] <mfa298> being able to identify a few different modes would seem like a more sensible test if you were going to do something like that (cw/rtty/mfsk/voice/packet) although not necessarily decoding it.
[18:00] <mikestir> the foundation exam is incredibly patronising - there really should be a method for just going straight to full (like the old RAE), maybe a supplementary paper sat at the same time as the advanced
[18:00] <gonzo___> voice is easy, it will be talking about hospital appointments
[18:00] <mfa298> or moaning about m3's using the radio
[18:01] <gonzo___> I raised that in the recent rsgb consultation on licence progression
[18:01] <mfa298> (I'm assuming that those people havn't realised yet that m6's exist)
[18:01] <Willdude123> mfa298: NADARS has no full course
[18:01] <Willdude123> Just an exam
[18:02] <gonzo___> very few places do
[18:02] <mfa298> I think a few of us said there should be direct entry into Full.
[18:02] <gonzo___> but you are a clever lad. judst get the exam book and work through it
[18:03] <Willdude123> gonzo___: Me?
[18:03] <Willdude123> Comparitively perhaps
[18:03] <eroomde> cleverness is comparative
[18:03] <gonzo___> I enquired with our tutors if there was a way to offer an intensivecourse. that was just the exam/assessment bits of the courses. just to get them out of the way. then sit the next full exam
[18:03] <eroomde> otherwise you would never reward a clever dog
[18:04] <daveake> my local club does a 6-weekend course for the full
[18:04] <eroomde> bloody hell
[18:04] <daveake> I'm not going to go - I can't spare that much time for a start
[18:05] <gonzo___> we did one a few yrs ago. but sapped al, the club resourse that nowt else got done
[18:05] <daveake> I'll just read the book and do the exam
[18:05] <eroomde> i think we just did the foundation and int practicals and exams in one day, immediately booked the full, crammed the q-codes and sat it
[18:05] <Willdude123> eroomde: what's your callsign?
[18:05] <eroomde> M0TEK
[18:06] <daveake> there was 1 Q-code question in the inter
[18:06] <gonzo___> you'll walk it. there will be obvious question in the course book. after that it'd just memorising the licence doc/schedual
[18:06] <Willdude123> eroomde: Do you go OTA frequently?
[18:06] <daveake> I did read the table first, but I wasn't going to fail on 1 question anyway
[18:06] <gb73d> nice c/s
[18:06] <eroomde> Willdude123: yes, about once every 5 years
[18:06] <eroomde> which is to say, once
[18:07] <gonzo___> sibot didn't catch that!
[18:07] <daveake> regular user then :)
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[18:07] <Willdude123> eroomde: why did you get it?
[18:07] <Willdude123> Oh, were you doing a daveake?
[18:07] <eroomde> to build rf hardware
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[18:08] <gonzo___> I actually spoke on the radio at nfd last year, so only 18mths for me
[18:08] Action: daveake is just doing them so a) he can do APRS, and b) in the hope that sometime the airborne rule gets relaxed in the uk
[18:08] <daveake> I have zero intention of actually talking OTA
[18:08] <Willdude123> eroomde: for fun?
[18:08] <eroomde> for learning
[18:09] <eroomde> for hab/rocketry/whatever
[18:09] <daveake> I have talked on air
[18:09] <daveake> for the foundation
[18:09] <daveake> that was plenty
[18:09] <gonzo___> there are plenty of people doing interesting stuff on radio, but they are too busy in the workshop to talk on air, that's why the on air chat is so awful
[18:09] <Willdude123> eroomde: oh that's cool
[18:09] <gonzo___> very little tech chat
[18:10] <eroomde> i have used repeaters actually, come to think of it, for coordinating a hab chase
[18:10] <fsphil> of my two voice contacts, one was HAB related
[18:10] <mikestir> df hunts are a good laugh
[18:11] <gonzo___> but groups like un microwave group and batc are good places for tech rf stuff.
[18:11] <gonzo___> eve phil
[18:11] <fsphil> I quite like the optical stuff. you don't even need a license for that :)
[18:11] <Willdude123> eroomde: ever wanted to actually use the license to transmit anything?
[18:11] <gonzo___> and you are 50% of my hf qso's
[18:11] <fsphil> lol
[18:11] <fsphil> that's right
[18:11] <daveake> hah
[18:11] <eroomde> used it for hab uplinks :)
[18:11] <gonzo___> well, on ar bands anyway....#
[18:11] <mfa298> I think in the last year I've talked on the radio more for other peoples foundation than at any other time (and that was at the ukhas conference)
[18:12] <fsphil> I brought my baofeng to the conference but didn't get a chance to actually talk to anyone
[18:12] <eroomde> oh also used it in the scottish mountains when trying to recover a rocket stage
[18:12] <fsphil> mostly because I was in the same room as everyone for most of the day
[18:12] <eroomde> but if you'd got stuck in the loo, just think how useful it'd have been
[18:12] <fsphil> mmm
[18:13] <fsphil> I quite liked that there was a poster in the loo with instructions on how to clean your hands
[18:14] <mfa298> maybe next year someone will have to take a vertical and mast then whoever is there early enough can do talk in, I think we had to be pretty much at the site before we managed to make contact 817 - 817
[18:14] <mfa298> damned buildings in the way
[18:14] <daveake> So they do teach something practical there then
[18:15] <gonzo___> go to top floor with hheld
[18:15] <Willdude123> Intermediate might be difficult
[18:15] <Willdude123> Each club does it differently I presume
[18:15] <Willdude123> Given the practicals
[18:15] <daveake> it really isn't
[18:15] <gonzo___> but I assume everyone got there on foot?
[18:15] <fsphil> my hotel was just down the road, which was very handy
[18:16] <eroomde> have the conf in a secret location, but known to within 1 sq km
[18:16] <eroomde> have a hab tracker
[18:16] <eroomde> tell people to find it
[18:16] <fsphil> rtty beacon?
[18:16] <mfa298> I think most people did train/foot, a few of us drove.
[18:17] <eroomde> i came in from the dlr
[18:17] <fsphil> gotta try that next time
[18:18] <mfa298> Willdude123: Intermediate should be pretty similar in most places. There's a set of practical skills you have to do and then exam from the rsgb
[18:18] <acidtech> what kind of practical skills?
[18:18] <mfa298> the bit that might change is how a course is run (if they do a course)
[18:19] <eroomde> soldering iirc
[18:19] <mfa298> wire a plug, solder a simple circuit and a couple of other things for Inter
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> bizarre thing with Advanced exam is that there is no pass mark
[18:19] <gonzo___> btw, why was the conf in london? was that where jc could rob a conf room?
[18:19] <eroomde> london is the centre of the universe
[18:20] <gonzo___> there is also assemble an rf connector to coax on the int
[18:20] <fsphil> easier for people flying in
[18:20] <mfa298> I think it was mostly as jc was organising so London is easy for him
[18:20] <gonzo___> fary nuff
[18:20] <fsphil> unless we want the next in Luton
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> RSGB just fail bottom 30%-35% applicants
[18:21] <fsphil> greenwich was brilliant for it though, the room was perfect
[18:21] <gonzo___> if anyone was interested in south coast. We have a good venue avail, with catering and parking. (Not wanting to steal JC's thunder)
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[18:22] <mfa298> acidtech: there's some info on the exams at http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-training/for-students/foundation/ you should find the sylabuses which detail the practical skills
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[18:22] <acidtech> thanks
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> We can have Alternative UKHAS Conference lol
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> maybe not
[18:23] <mfa298> maybe we ought to arrange a South Coast meetup, there seems to be a good collection of us around.
[18:24] <fsphil> Rehab
[18:26] <mikestir> you should come up north - we have hills and better beer
[18:27] <mfa298> there's some good beers down here as well.
[18:27] <eroomde> yeah but The North
[18:27] <mfa298> and we don't have so many of those pesky hills that get in the way.
[18:27] <mikestir> too many pies full of unidentifiable meat?
[18:28] <eroomde> just call it 'game' and dont think about it too much
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[18:31] <LeoBodnar> softer water rocks
[18:31] <gonzo___> shoud do a south meet. Prob when one of us has a launch
[18:31] <mikestir> yeah it was impossible to make a decent cup of tea when I lived down in northampton
[18:31] <mikestir> was always full of rocks
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[18:33] <eroomde> yeah softwarer water wouldbe nice
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[18:33] <eroomde> shaving is nicer
[18:35] <mikestir> software water?
[18:35] <mikestir> software defined beverages
[18:36] <fsphil> the replicator
[18:36] <eroomde> for pint in keg
[18:36] <eroomde> drink(pint
[18:36] <eroomde> )
[18:36] <eroomde> sigh
[18:37] <gonzo___> there was an open source beer I saw
[18:37] <eroomde> am gonna try out the new hobbit with some friends this eve
[18:37] <fsphil> looks good
[18:37] <fsphil> going to see it on tuesday
[18:37] <eroomde> selected the friends according to probability of hobbit-film-survival
[18:38] <fsphil> make sure they have functional bladders
[18:38] <eroomde> yeah
[18:38] <eroomde> this cinema has a bar too, which is a good and a bad thing
[18:39] <Willdude123> Can you just take in your own circuits that fulfill the intermediate criteria?
[18:40] <daveake> You just have to build a radio-related circuit
[18:40] <daveake> kit or your own design doesn't matter
[18:40] <eroomde> i showed them badger1
[18:40] <eroomde> that was fine
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> you need to build one and do some tinkering on it in situ
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> unfortunately
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> it has two resistors, a bulb and a battery
[18:45] <eroomde> must have changed since my day
[18:45] <eroomde> they guy who did it for us was quite apologetic through the entire process
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> on top of ham related project
[18:46] <eroomde> that people doing an engineering degree had to have their knowledge of ohms law formally examined
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> but I have been forgiven after what I have shown
[18:47] <mfa298> it may depend a bit on the place, although could be worth checking the sylabus and firmly persauding them if you think something slighlty differen
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> I have been told that they have to be observed going through the motions however silly they are. If somebody would grass the examiners up to RSGB they would lose their qualification.
[18:50] <mfa298> looks like you have to demonstrate some simple items (resistor colour codes, diode, transistor, soldering, and basic circuit with lamp, switch, resistor)
[18:51] <mfa298> you also have to do a project circuit which is bigger but can be done outside the assessment, you just need to satisfy the examiner that you did most of the work.
[18:52] <Willdude123> I love it when I say something, forget about it and then come back to see a whole conversation happened about it
[18:52] <mfa298> If I had to do the intermediate now I'd like to try:
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[18:52] <mfa298> 10d.7 Fit a suitable RF connector (PL259, BNC or N-type) to a piece of coaxial cable.
[18:53] <mfa298> by asking if I can crimp a bnc/sma onto some coax
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> It's indeed just an Ohms law circuit
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> +'
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[19:00] Action: cm13g09 appears - battered and bruised :P
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[19:17] <G8APZ> mfa298 the N type is easiest with a piece of UR67
[19:18] <mfa298> most things are fairly easy to crimp (if you have a decent tool).
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[19:19] <mfa298> although I wonder how many places would cope with crimp rather than the standard solder a pl259 onto some rg58
[19:19] <G8APZ> pl259 and rg58 a horrid combination!!
[19:20] <G8APZ> PL259 horrid in itself!
[19:20] <G8APZ> I use PL259 to N female adaptors so never use the PL259!
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[19:21] <mfa298> I use some pl259's but I mostly get the Deluxe ones which require less soldering.
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[19:23] <G8APZ> mfa298 I stopped using them in 1970!! Damn things were nickel plated, and brown muckite insulator...!
[19:24] <mfa298> I've tended to get ones like these http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/plugs-adaptors/nevada-uhf-016
[19:24] <mfa298> the cheapy ones most places use are horrible to use and horrible to solder
[19:26] <G8APZ> mfa298 good heavens look at those prices!!
[19:27] <mfa298> but at least they work :D
[19:27] <G8APZ> I buy all my plugs and cable from W.H. Westlake
[19:27] <mfa298> although I'm using BNC or N as much
[19:28] <mfa298> I've got some of his stuff, by 103 get's a bit bulk to cart around for outdoor operating.
[19:29] <G8APZ> http://www.whwestlake.co.uk/ PL259 HIGH QUALITY PL259 plugs for RG213U/W103 etc.,... silver plated,PFTE and Gold Pin...................................................£3..00
[19:29] <G8APZ> yes.. 10.3mm is a bit big but less lossy!
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[19:30] <G8APZ> oh right W103 OK
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[19:31] <LeoBodnar> G8APZ: good job you don't need USB cables http://www.musicdirect.com/p-16241-audioquest-diamond-usb-b-plug-cable.aspx
[19:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> WOW
[19:31] <G8APZ> Absurd!!! Same level of absurdness as gold plated phono plugs!!
[19:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> and directional audio cables
[19:32] <mfa298> I suspect Westlakes PL259's are similar to the ones I get from nevada although I've mostly used them with rg58 as it's only HF
[19:32] <G8APZ> OK
[19:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> and... paste for transistors :-)
[19:32] <mfa298> RG213 or W103 for VHF/UHF usually with a preference for N connectors.
[19:32] <mfa298> my W103 cables only have N connectors on.
[19:34] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: yes but that looks like they're selling to audiophiles, they'll buy anything if you claim it improved their sound.
[19:34] <G8APZ> I've been looking at APRS trackers for such things as chase car.... doesn't seem much choice
[19:35] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar.... audiophiles who play CDs where the sampling rate is worse than the analogue!!
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> 72V dielectric bias system wtf?! http://www.musicdirect.com/images/product/large/AAQUSBDIA075M_1_.jpg
[19:36] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar My hearing cuts off above 4KHz so I wouldn't know about sound above there!!
[19:36] <G8APZ> I cannot hear things such as a watch alarm bleeping!
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> Dielectric Biased System ® can fix that
[19:37] <daveake> The one time I put a piezo buzzer on a payload, it landed in the garden of someone too old to hear it :p
[19:37] <G8APZ> That's me daveake :-)
[19:37] <daveake> hah!
[19:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> G8APZ: my dsdigi has tracker function, you need only bunch of 100n capacitors and 2IC's :-)
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> G8APZ: is it to transmit or receive?
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[19:39] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar What I was thinking after the payload theft yesterday is that we need tracker teams downwind on standby. This would be TX only to id me as a chaser!
[19:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> G8APZ: http://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsp9uob.verox.pl%2Fdsdigi.html&act=url
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[19:41] <G8APZ> SP9UOB-Tom Thanks, I'll have a look using Google Tranlate.
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> I think most modern portable/mobile VHF things have APRS built in
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Hey G8APZ you can do it from any mobile phone! There are apps for iPhone / android that will show you on the HAB map!
[19:44] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar That may be the way to go... I saw a US made one with tracker and 5W TX
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> It'z nearly zero cost and does not rely on APRS netwrok
[19:45] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar that's a thought.... assuming you have one that has all you can eat data allowance!
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[19:46] <daveake> doesn't use much bandwidth
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[19:46] <G8APZ> I must borrow one of my wife's smartphones....I have a phone to make and receive occasional calls, not to run my life by!!
[19:46] <G8APZ> daveake that's good to hear!!
[19:47] <G8APZ> Then I'll go out and about on a test drive!!
[19:47] <daveake> I reckon on 500MB for a flight/chase, and almost all of that is batc
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[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> if we are talking about smartphones - anuone are using android?
[19:48] <G8APZ> So how does a chase car get onto the HAB map?
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> It's probably a few MBs
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> You just press the button "show me on the map" :D
[19:49] <G8APZ> I must look out some apps and get xyl to download them!!
[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0
[19:50] <mfa298> G8APZ: the apps report direct to the tracker system so you appear as _Chase
[19:50] <G8APZ> OK so I could download the app and go out in the car and do a circular and come back to see where I'd been?
[19:50] <mfa298> yep
[19:51] <mfa298> looks like someone's been running one of the apps in northern italy
[19:51] <G8APZ> SP9UOB Tom, what is that link? Says I need to sign in....
[19:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> G8APZ: its your location history taken by google
[19:53] <G8APZ> I don't have a google account...! I think I'll leave that alone!!
[19:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> G8APZ: :-)
[19:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> "...the presentation became gentler and smoother. The treble, in particular, was revelatory. Thanks to the elimination of hardness and glare, I could listen at higher volumes without the sound bothering my ears. The presentation became more musically vivid without becoming more sonically vivid -- a rare feat that I greatly value."
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[19:56] <G8APZ> Really!! I don't know what sort of music they listen to!!
[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> G8APZ: or what does they take before...
[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> did?
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[19:59] <LeoBodnar> $3500 patch lead http://www.musicdirect.com/p-58154-audioquest-rje-diamond-ethernet-cable.aspx
[20:01] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar It's like taking candy off a baby!!
[20:02] <mfa298> is that one that has the special markings to tell you which way to connect it so the electrons go in the right direction
[20:02] <Willdude123> Is there a way to stop FLDIGI from trying to decode noise?
[20:02] <G8APZ> use the SQL
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> mfa298: "All audio cables are directional. The correct direction is determined by listening to every batch of metal conductors used in every AudioQuest audio cable. Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound quality. For best results have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music."
[20:02] <G8APZ> squelch
[20:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: 3.0m version please :-)
[20:03] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar Thats complete and utter BLX to me!!
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> Carbon-Based Noise-Dissipation System (NDS) oO
[20:03] <G8APZ> and carbon is not noisy? discuss!!
[20:03] <Willdude123> Tremendous fun decding PSK31
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> I am carbon based too (in places)
[20:04] <mfa298> G8APZ: might be blx but the manufacturers will try and sell it to users like that http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatId=Accessories%28DenonNA%29&Pid=AKDL1%28DenonNA%29
[20:04] <G8APZ> Willdude123 did the squelch help?
[20:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: We are all carbon based (with some other elements)
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[20:05] <G8APZ> Made from high purity copper wire... now there's a thing!!
[20:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> it make my day: Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound quality. For best results have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player.
[20:06] <G8APZ> Is the "HabHub Chase Car Tracker" the app to use?
[20:07] <daveake> I think some audiophiles have had oxygen-free arteries installed in their brains. Nothing else explains it.
[20:08] <mfa298> G8APZ: that sounds like the right one (IOS I assume)
[20:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: :-)
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> why is that?
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> non-physical thoughts by those people? xD
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[20:16] <G8APZ> mfa298 Just got the app on my xyl's phone..as a test... so it should come up on the HAB map?
[20:16] <mfa298> you might need to set it as online somewhere
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[20:17] <mfa298> and probbly configure a callsign or name
[20:17] <mfa298> you seem to have appeared
[20:18] <G8APZ> I see the red car but no id on it!
[20:18] <G8APZ> Not familiar with the app... all it offers is start tracking and stop tracking as far as I can see
[20:19] <mfa298> with spacenear.us it should show the name if you click on it
[20:19] <mfa298> there should also be an info box on the side that shows it
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[20:21] <G8APZ> mfa298 can't see name on a click, nor info panels!
[20:22] <mfa298> you might need to refresh spacenear a few times, it seems a bit buggy after google changed the api
[20:22] <Willdude123> What does FL-digi's rig control actually do? I don't see anything in it that could control a rig
[20:22] <Willdude123> G8APZ: sorta
[20:23] <G8APZ> mfa298 OK - it didn't work after first refresh, but I'll have a play!
[20:23] <mfa298> you could try one of the other maps although I'm not sure how much they show habhub.org/mt or http://habmap.philcrump.co.uk/
[20:24] <G8APZ> Willdude123 you have to set the SQL level lust above the residual noise level in the adjacent meter window
[20:24] <mfa298> Willdude123: the rig control allows it to adjust frequency etc.
[20:25] <mfa298> I use it on balloons where the frequency drifts so as the frequency gets too high fldigi can retune the radio
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[20:26] <Willdude123> Is it possible to have a TNC that is software based?
[20:26] <G8APZ> mfa298 The chase car is shown with label on Phil's map page... but not in the info boxes... looks worth testing anyway!
[20:27] <mfa298> G8APZ: I think phil's page only does the info box for balloons not cars
[20:28] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you mean for packet there are some software tnc's althoguh they not always the easiest to use
[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> Fastest HAB recovery EVER ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zELHIfNnkss
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> lol
[20:34] <G8APZ> mfa298 OK that's fine... I wonder if it leaves a track for chase car or just reports location.
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> G8APZ: you are on http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=g8apz_chase
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[20:36] <LeoBodnar> Click on the "path" button to enable it
[20:36] <mfa298> on spacenear.us it can show the path but it's off by default
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> ...for chase cars
[20:37] Action: Willdude123 is having fun reading the EIA 2006 and finding that in a potential dispute with a teacher due to events that happened on Friday the law is on his side
[20:37] <G8APZ> OK I see it on spacenear but no info boxes with path
[20:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> at least GOPRO wasnt stolen...
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Try to give teachers a break if possible, they spend all year dealing with asshats.
[20:39] <G8APZ> Willdude123 please explain?
[20:40] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil: she is an asshat.
[20:41] <Willdude123> G8APZ: She keeps us behind for at least 2 minutes after the time in which we should leave class.
[20:41] <Willdude123> I left.
[20:41] <Willdude123> On time. For lunch
[20:42] <G8APZ> Ah..OK I don't need to know!!!
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[20:42] <G8APZ> Back later
[20:42] <LeoBodnar> There were bigger problems than that on the planet
[20:42] Nick change: G8APZ -> G8APZ-away
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[20:42] <Willdude123> One would say that such a penalty would contradict EIA 2006 sec 91 (6)(a)
[20:43] <Willdude123> Since I was guilty of no wrongdoing.
[20:43] <Willdude123> Also, teachers need to give reasonable time to eat and go to the toilet
[20:43] <Willdude123> G8APZ-away: you did ask
[20:44] <G8APZ-away> LeoBodnar Refreshed Spacenear with filter and now see chase car in panel. I may go for a test drive soon!!
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[20:44] <mfa298> in my experience teachers are generally overworked and underpaid
[20:44] <mfa298> and trying to give them a hard time for delaying your lunch by two minutes probably wont go down well
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> It was a revelation for me in school towards the end that teachers are humans and have normal lives and problems
[20:48] <Willdude123> This teacher has messed up on a lot larger things
[20:48] <Willdude123> Like losing coursework
[20:48] <Willdude123> It is frequently more than 2 minutes
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> I bet it's difficult to be perfect Willdude123 ?
[20:49] <nats`> no it's easy look at me
[20:49] <nats`> :D
[20:49] <nats`> ok I go back to me geek :D
[20:49] <Gadget-Mac> Willdude123: It's good training for the thing they call real life. Nothing ever runs to time ;)
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> And authorities are incompetent and screw up regularly
[20:51] <mfa298> and I doubt you have 6 hours of homework to do everynight after school.
[20:52] <Gadget-Mac> Infact, does the class start on time, or do you have to wait fro stragglers to arrive
[20:52] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar: I would expect to be reprimanded for bad behaviour
[20:52] <Willdude123> I have been in the past
[20:52] <Willdude123> Being illegally reprimanded for bad behaviour is not correct though
[20:53] <nats`> how old are you Willdude123 ?
[20:53] <Willdude123> 13
[20:56] <Gadget-Mac> Out of interest whats illegal about it ?
[20:57] <jcoxon> back on topic - what size vent do people predict would be needed to reduce a balloons ascent rate from 2.0 to 0m/s?
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: At what density of helium.
[20:58] <jcoxon> well lets say at 20km altitude
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: and we're back again to 'what is the delta-p across a balloon at diameter'
[20:58] <jcoxon> yes exactly
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> IIRC 4mB being estimated.
[20:58] <jcoxon> tough one
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Of that order.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> For delta-P
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> Near burst.
[20:59] <kokey> someone pointed me to the local rocketry people around Cape Town
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> I don't think anyones measured it though.
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[20:59] <kokey> I was disappointed in their lack of effort in electronics
[20:59] <kokey> though I think they make up for it with the actual rockets
[20:59] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, yeah, it would be worthwhile doing
[21:00] <jcoxon> differential pressure sensor
[21:02] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, i was thinking something like a 20mm diameter vent would be about right
[21:02] <jcoxon> (this would be a controlled vent)
[21:03] <Willdude123> What happened with the liquid filled balloon floater trhing?
[21:03] <jcoxon> Willdude123, not sure what that is
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[21:06] <Gadget-Mac> jcoxon: Challenge is going to be getting an effective vent / seal for not much wiehgt
[21:06] <Gadget-Mac> Just like getting my fingers to keep up with my brain ;)
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[21:07] <jcoxon> yeah, its quite easy to add a pvc pipe to the neck of the balloon
[21:07] <jcoxon> i'm thinking a pvc ball valve
[21:08] <Willdude123> jcoxon: there was some idea while ago to fill a balloon partially with a liquid that evaporates at high altitudes
[21:09] <Willdude123> And then condensed and weighed it down
[21:10] <jcoxon> oh i see
[21:12] <Willdude123> Did that ever get off the ground (no pun intended)
[21:12] <jcoxon> not that i'm aware of
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/ideas:p1190037.jpg?w=600
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[21:17] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, was that ever tested at altitude?
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> hey ball valve is mine!
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> lol :D
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[21:18] <LeoBodnar> not really
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> not at all
[21:18] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:19] <jcoxon> what size are you trying?
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Kaymont 350 at 500g payload and 6m/s ascent.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> 1.75m^3 1500g neck lift. 0.8m^3 at 0 neck lift.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Burst diameter 5m.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Burst at 22km.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> .08kg/m^3 density air - helium 10g/m^3
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Need to dump 1m^3at stp, 0.6 of balloon contents = 40m^
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> 3
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.lenoxlaser.com/index.php?dispatch=pages.view
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> &page_id=43 with 90kPa in, 55kPa out, 1000l/s helium gives 2 inches.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> This however is assuming it's dumping quite fast - in 40 seconds or so
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> This would be a commanded valve.
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> And it's got a considerable neck lift - so this would be pretty much worst case.
[21:20] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[21:21] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, useful to know
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: If instead we come to a rather more gradual halt - stopping over about 5 minutes and a kilometer, the same calculation comes to about 16mm
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> I would be tempted to go rather overkill - as the delta-p is uncertain.
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> Underfilling of course makes it easier too
[21:24] <jcoxon> yeah
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[21:25] <SpeedEvil> 20km is in the chilly bit.
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> what about air flow at low absolute pressures?
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: the above calculator was a simple orifice plate calculator
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[21:26] <SpeedEvil> the velocities are hugely subsonic
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> So it shouldn't be _Very_ complex.
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> Propane would be an ideal fill gas.
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[21:28] <SpeedEvil> Would sit at just the right level.
[21:28] <fsphil> are there any differential pressure sensors with digital interfaces?
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> If not for the whole 'heavier than air' thing
[21:28] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: yeah, several with i2c
[21:28] <Gadget-Mac> http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.php?ci_id=45333
[21:29] <fsphil> ah nice. last time I checked it all seemed to be analogue outputs
[21:30] Action: SpeedEvil sighs and wants a nice guage that goes down to several microns.
[21:30] Action: SpeedEvil is awaiting delivery of his vacuum pump.
[21:30] <Gadget-Mac> Yeah, was looking at them for doing mains water pressure sensing :)
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> the honeywell "truestability " stuff is good
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> but crazy low temperatures at altitude makes it tricky
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> then there is measurement specialities
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> which is big but even better
[21:37] <fsphil> yes there don't seem to be many rated below 0c
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[21:38] <Laurenceb_> https://pixhawk.ethz.ch/px4/modules/px4airspeed
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> https://pixhawk.ethz.ch/px4/airframes/skywalker_x5
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> is very cool
[21:43] <Gadget-Mac> Very nice
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[21:53] <Laurenceb_> also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_PxhU9i9Ng
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[21:58] <Gadget-Mac> Laurenceb_: Look like alot of fun
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[22:08] <Gadget-Mac> Laurenceb_: http://rcprofileplanes.com/blog/planes/gigantic-7ft-x8-skywalker-wing
[22:08] <SIbot> In real units: 7 ft = 2.13 m
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[22:14] <G8APZ-away> LeoBodnar Not very successful tracking on path.... looks as if it only had two positions and drew a line between them! My circular tour wasn't shown!!
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> G8APZ-away: it could be either loss of GPS position or loss of GPS data network
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> *GSM data network
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[22:18] <LeoBodnar> If you go somewhere together it would help for your xyl to watch the phone screen to see what is happeneing
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[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Are you connected to WiFi from your phone when at home?
[22:18] <G8APZ-away> Yes I am..
[22:19] <G8APZ-away> I'll do more tests ... looks a good alternative to APRS though. Thanks for the suggestion!
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> That might explain it, no good GSM data network around. Take it on a longer journey sometime
[22:20] <G8APZ-away> OK
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> Or try another phone/network - usual stuff
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[22:20] <LeoBodnar> But it's a good no-cost solution
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[22:23] <Willdude123> mfa298: don't suppose you know how high GB3ET is?
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> How does APRS message gets routed over the internet onto the air?
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> Say you want to send an APRS message to the balloon. Would all the igates in the are try to transmit to it?
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> There could be hundreds
[22:32] <G8APZ-away> I don't know about APRS .... just thought a turnkey solution may be the answer!!
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[22:32] <Laurenceb_> isnt it based ok knowledge of where the destination can be reached from
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> standard networking prolem
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> It's an unrelated question G8APZ-away :D
[22:33] <mikestir> can you even do that? what's to stop a non-amateur originating a message from the internet?
[22:33] <G8APZ-away> OK
[22:33] Nick change: G8APZ-away -> G8APZ
[22:34] <cm13g09> I wasn't aware APRS igates were tx/rx capable.... I thought most were RX only....
[22:34] <LeoBodnar> nothing: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/entermsg.cgi?fromcall=mikestir&tocall=
[22:35] <mikestir> right!
[22:35] <mikestir> seems a bit risky from an igate operator's point of view
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> Well it's a moot point
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> the message is supposed to carry originator's callsign
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> if it does not originator could hardly be violating anything apart from good community rules but the igate owner might be
[22:38] <LeoBodnar> if unlicensed operator would pick up a radio and send it from there that's another matter
[22:38] <LeoBodnar> but clicking a button on a website, honest, gov....
[22:39] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[22:39] <mfa298> Willdude123: not sure off hand, but it's in a fairly good location
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> But anyway, how does the message get routed back if recipient have been heard by 100 igates?
[22:39] <Willdude123> Mhm. Is it Woodgarston farm?
[22:39] <mfa298> it's where the basingstoke and Southampton Uni clubs did national field day from
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[22:41] <Willdude123> Ah roght
[22:41] <Willdude123> Will possibly go to barc at some point
[22:41] <Willdude123> ping craag
[22:42] <mfa298> I think he might be unavailable at the moment.
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[22:43] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: igates are the ones with internet?
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> car http://www-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/miscellaneousImage.cfm?ImgCat=Miscellaneous&Image=369
[22:43] <Willdude123> Yeah I was just wondering if SUWS does much else with barc
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> lol i thought that was their latest design
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> then saw date
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> wow homeland is getting epic
[22:45] <mfa298> they've done national field day once or twice as barc have some decent kit and access to a good location. Not sure if they do much else.
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[22:49] <mfa298> For the APRS I'm not sure how many igates take general internet traffic and pass onto radio. They may only be re-broadcasting what they hear locally, and possibly only stuff that's come over the internet from other trusted igates.
[22:49] <mfa298> not something I've really looked at though.
[22:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> Its getting late - night all !
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[22:52] <fsphil> I ran an rx-only igate for a few weeks
[22:52] <fsphil> definitly wouldn't have it txing
[22:53] <mfa298> I suspect for txing 24/7 you'd need a NoV as well, although these things never seem to be that clear.
[22:53] <Upu> you do
[22:53] <Upu> and you need to have three contacts who can shut down the station within 2 hours
[22:53] <Upu> they give you an MB call sign for it
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[22:55] <mfa298> the whole lot is probably a bit of a grey area. Even re-transmitting a message that you recieved over the air might not officially be covered by the license (it's going to be 3rd party traffic)
[22:56] <Upu> you can do it but you do need some sort of NoV for it
[22:56] <mfa298> I tend to look occasionally, realise there's not much interesting on it, and stop
[22:56] <fsphil> might try again
[22:56] <fsphil> see if there's as little traffic as before
[22:57] <mfa298> I think most of what I get is via digipeters and comes from halfway up the country.
[22:59] <Maxell> here in dense earas like The Hague you do not need any more digis or igates, every square centimeter is covered.
[22:59] <Maxell> However, portable 2mtr aprs might not be picked up by a wide relay so smaller directional first relays would help.
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[23:00] <Maxell> And about APRS-IS --> RF might be intresting
[23:00] <mfa298> If there was any real arps around here I should hear it - two motorways within a stones throw.
[23:00] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: I suppose you also give it an destination callsign
[23:01] <mfa298> I think APRS has an ability to send messages to other people although I'm not really sure how it works.
[23:01] <Maxell> http://www.aprs.org/aprs12/IS-to-RF-b.txt
[23:02] <mfa298> unless it's based on the old packet bbs days where you would have a mailbox on your local bbs
[23:02] <mfa298> and messages are addressed a bit like email to you at your bbs
[23:05] <cm13g09> heh mfa298
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> http://forumimage.ru/uploads/20130531/136998867221342968.jpg
[23:08] <jarod> heh
[23:08] <jarod> 1 is loose
[23:09] <mattbrejza> cooler may not now fit...
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: just spray alcohol on it constantly
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[23:12] <mattbrejza> i guess that when youve gone to that effort getting hold of liquid nitrogen or similar is probably a somewhat more minor issue
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> lol
[23:16] <db_g6gzh> I seem to get sent stuff from APRS-IS for stations that I've heard and gated to APRS-IS but I don't allow anything to go to RF
[23:17] <db_g6gzh> I assume if 100s of igates have heard a station that they all would get sent such stuff
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> Could please somebody with a radio with a few local igates try sending himself an APRS message over the internet? http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/entermsg.cgi?fromcall=&tocall=
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> I can't get through to any igate
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[23:18] <VK4HIA> Internet APRS messages will show up via RF
[23:20] <db_g6gzh> 2013-12-15 23:19:38.827 APRSIS R G6GZH>APRS,TCPIP*,qAC,THIRD::G6GZH-1 :Test
[23:20] <VK4HIA> LeoBodnar did you rx my emai today?
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> http://elm-chan.org/works/asg/xy2.png
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> haven't opened email today at all :D
[23:20] <db_g6gzh> that came back over Internet
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> is it urgent?
[23:20] <VK4HIA> No probs'
[23:20] <VK4HIA> NO
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> tomorrow then :D
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> lol Laurenceb_
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> so if you would allow tx it would get on air db_g6gzh ?
[23:23] <db_g6gzh> Well that destination was actually my igate anyway.
[23:23] <LeoBodnar> Neat http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?call=G6GZH
[23:23] <db_g6gzh> I have a test msg from you on my xastir
[23:24] <LeoBodnar> Hehe
[23:24] <db_g6gzh> Not sure if my reply is going anywhere
[23:25] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: whats the plan? I am Rxing on 144.8 now, about to send myself a msg
[23:25] <LeoBodnar> I can see it here: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?call=M0XER
[23:25] <Maxell> or should I TX a msg to you?
[23:25] <Maxell> over rf?
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> I thin {03} means needs acknowledgment not sure how
[23:26] <db_g6gzh> I seem to have a retry counting up so presumably it hasn't been delivered to you
[23:26] <Maxell> Wow creepy, findu.com shows a SQ message from a while back.
[23:27] <LeoBodnar> It needs ack-ing
[23:27] <Maxell> APRS-IS doesn't forget it seems...
[23:27] <fsphil> in theory I have an igate running now
[23:27] <LeoBodnar> Hessu said he won't remove anything from db
[23:27] <fsphil> been listening for 15 minute sand no traffic at all
[23:27] <db_g6gzh> I've not read the spec for messaging
[23:28] <LeoBodnar> It said messages requiring acknowledgments will timeout in due time
[23:28] <db_g6gzh> I now have 6/224s which is presumably try/delay
[23:29] <mattbrejza> i seem to remember tracking a lorry from france to kent last time i tried aprs
[23:29] <LeoBodnar> Maybe replying will ACK it
[23:29] <mattbrejza> probably wont work now due to agwpe + win8
[23:29] <Maxell> fsphil: It's sunday night, what do you expect?!
[23:29] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: are you using that findu form to send the message ?
[23:30] <LeoBodnar> yes
[23:30] <db_g6gzh> I presume it's send-only
[23:30] <LeoBodnar> you can see your messages here http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?call=G6GZH
[23:31] <LeoBodnar> and here http://aprs.fi/?c=message&call=G6GZH
[23:31] <LeoBodnar> Not sure if aprs.fi allows sending messages
[23:32] <db_g6gzh> My 'Hello' is now showing 7/448s
[23:32] <db_g6gzh> I presume a real client is needed to ack it
[23:33] <fsphil> Maxell: I'll leave it running for a week. I predict it won't have received a single packet :)
[23:34] <fsphil> I can hear some distance activity
[23:34] <Maxell> fsphil: Start doing APRS yourself, I'm hooked.
[23:34] <LeoBodnar> I have restarted MULTIPSK with M0XER callsign let's see if it receives the next try and ACK it
[23:34] <fsphil> oh god, multipsk
[23:35] <Maxell> Still have to finish up the nice VOX/PTT hack here because Baofeng UV B5's vox sucks...
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> multipass
[23:35] <VK4HIA> OPENAPRS has a messaging facility
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> multipass????
[23:35] <db_g6gzh> I'll 'Kick Timer'
[23:36] <db_g6gzh> still seems to be retrying, thogh now 3/28s
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/13/mac_bitcoin_mining_hoax/
[23:39] <Maxell> "terminal command line and running the following command: sudo rm -rf/*, viral images falsely claim"
[23:39] <Maxell> nice
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Oh har har
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[23:42] <Maxell> Also nice on the xbox one hoax: "The 4chan thread that hosted the information has since been deleted"
[23:42] <Maxell> But not because it tricked you into bricking the device, haha.
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> What is the lifetime of /b/ - 20 mins?
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> https://imgur.com/a/beY7E
[23:44] <Maxell> Guys I'm outta here. LeoBodnar if you need more APRS stuff I should be qrv tomorrow from my internship. I'm able to reach the wide digipeater/igate http://aprs.fi/info/a/PI1DFT there
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe an hour, looking at the last page - for some threads
[23:44] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: depends how popular the thread it.
[23:44] <Maxell> yeah
[23:44] <Maxell> Oh you are fammilair with 4chan. Good.
[23:46] <LeoBodnar> Not getting anything via MULTIPSK
[23:46] <LeoBodnar> Cheers Maxell
[23:51] <db_g6gzh> Seems to be still retrying, so I'll cancel it as I'm about to call it a night.
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> ah sure! I did not know you can cancel it
[23:52] <db_g6gzh> Apparently so, at least in xastir
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> Well the concept seems to be working anyway
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[23:53] <db_g6gzh> Yes, it would be interesting to see if multiple igates would all get passed a message but I suspect there are few, if any, UK ones gating to RF.
[23:53] <LeoBodnar> MULTIPSK might need paid version to be able to do messages. Believe it or not there is a paid version of it
[23:54] <Willdude123> Has anyone here ever managed a contact with the iss?
[23:54] <db_g6gzh> I don't know MULTIPSK
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> Don't! It's evil
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[23:54] <db_g6gzh> Willdude123: I've heard it but not been able to get it to hear me
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: I've contemplated making a tracking mount for a 100mW green laser pointer and a binocular as a beam spreader.
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: And then watch on NASA TV as it comes over.
[23:55] <Willdude123> Wait what?
[23:55] <LeoBodnar> haha
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[23:55] <SpeedEvil> Watch the video image.
[23:55] <Willdude123> Oh does nasa tv have live footage?
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes.
[23:55] <Willdude123> Would that even work?
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Yes.
[23:56] <LeoBodnar> You can watch urine tank levels
[23:56] <Willdude123> speedevil is it illegal?
[23:56] <LeoBodnar> Should go up if you blind them with a laser
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> It's illegal to shine lights at aircraft.
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> Not space stations.
[23:56] <Willdude123> Has anyone ever fapped on the iss?
[23:56] <Willdude123> Do it
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> However - the brightness from ISS would not be significant during daytime
[23:56] <LeoBodnar> It's not in UK airspace anyway
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> At ISS
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream - no idea what that is
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> where
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Oh - - mozambique
[00:00] --- Mon Dec 16 2013