highaltitude.log.20131213

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[04:36] <MLow> hiya
[04:37] <MLow> if you guys dont mind me asking, id like to know what kind of tracking systems you guys use, and what country your using it in
[04:39] <MLow> well i guess its probably out of timezone for most folks lol
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[05:33] <SpeedEvil> MLow: It varies.
[05:33] <SpeedEvil> There are people in the US using APRS
[05:33] <MLow> from payload to payload with you?
[05:34] <SpeedEvil> In the UK, APRS on the standard frequencies can't be done airborne.
[05:34] <SpeedEvil> So we've developed a system based around 433MHz recievers
[05:34] <SpeedEvil> This also tends to be much lower powered - 10mW
[05:34] <MLow> rtty yes?
[05:34] <SpeedEvil> Often.
[05:35] <SpeedEvil> But in general about 50bps
[05:35] <SpeedEvil> whatever encoding is used - the software is somewhat flexible. Narrow bandwidth
[05:38] <MLow> so aprs and rtty?
[05:39] <SpeedEvil> Generally.
[05:40] <SpeedEvil> The software and hardware used is a variant of fldigi - and any mode it supports can be used.
[05:40] <SpeedEvil> Typically, only 433MHz at 5khz or under bandwidth works, because of the recievers.
[05:41] <SpeedEvil> Dominoex - for example
[05:43] <MLow> i bought an HX1-144.390-3
[05:43] <MLow> hehe
[05:44] <MLow> not able to do APRS properly because of the bandwidth
[05:44] <MLow> needed a -10
[05:47] <MLow> trying to figure out a use for it but i think it's useless
[05:49] <MLow> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=78
[05:50] <MLow> even more confusing is that some sites indicate exactly the opposite but for the life of me I can't get the thing to trasmit anything decodable
[05:50] <MLow> http://www.byonics.com/mt-300
[05:51] <MLow> brb
[05:55] <MLow> ok back
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[06:27] <jphoglund> morning
[06:27] <MLow> morning
[06:30] <MLow> ok got it decoding with a capacitor lol
[06:44] <Upu> MLow the version I sell is the -10
[06:44] <Upu> not the -3 as shown in the image
[06:44] <Upu> but the -3 does work
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[06:45] <MLow> using a 200pf cap i get real good decode but it's quiet
[06:46] <MLow> series on TDX line
[06:46] <MLow> is there some advantage to the -10?
[06:46] <MLow> radiometrix support flat out told me that the -3 wouldnt work at all
[06:47] <Upu> surprised I didn't get that one generally the direct amateur support to me
[06:47] <MLow> I ordered from Lemos not you :)
[06:48] <MLow> im in the US
[06:48] <MLow> otherwise, you all the way
[06:48] <Upu> Yeah Lemos passes amateur requests to me now
[06:48] <MLow> This was....feb of last year
[06:48] <Upu> and they've agreed to let me sell low volumes into the States
[06:48] <Upu> yeah
[06:48] <MLow> you are awesome
[06:48] <Upu> Lemos don't like the small orders
[06:48] <Upu> lol
[06:48] <Upu> or the support for them
[06:49] <Upu> so I came to an agreement with Danny (Lemos)
[06:49] <MLow> must have all radios
[06:49] <Upu> I don't know why the -10 is better but the Australian HX1 is only availble in the -3 and they have no issues
[06:50] <MLow> I paid $52.75 for mine, $15 bucks of that was shipping
[06:50] <MLow> now it's spiked up to like 70 just for the module
[06:50] <Upu> about $50 delivered form me
[06:50] <Upu> from
[06:50] <MLow> i think i need a better gps though, im like 2 ft from a window without a single gps lock, i got this gps though because they said it works above the cocom height
[06:50] <SIbot> In real units: 2 ft = 0.61 m
[06:51] <Upu> which GPS is it ?
[06:51] <MLow> Prolific
[06:51] <MLow> *shrug*
[06:51] <Upu> hmm MTK something ?
[06:51] <MLow> not a single mark for ID on it
[06:51] <Upu> oook :)
[06:52] <Upu> lets assume that isn't going to work then
[06:52] <MLow> lol here is where i got it
[06:52] <MLow> https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144
[06:52] <Upu> there aren't many modules that do work
[06:52] <MLow> got it to toy around with
[06:52] <Upu> I think that one does work actually
[06:52] <MLow> i got it on recommendation
[06:52] <MLow> from here i think actually
[06:52] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[06:52] <Upu> strange
[06:53] <Upu> most people use the ublox based modules here
[06:53] <Upu> anyway only one way to find out
[06:53] <Upu> let us know so we can add it to the wiki
[06:53] <Upu> Adafruit say the Ultimate modules works above 25km
[06:53] <Upu> which it does
[06:53] <Upu> all the way to 27km where it stops
[06:53] <Upu> "This module has a special high-altitude firmware version loaded to support operation at altitudes in excess of 25 kilometers."
[06:53] <MLow> indeed, well its low channel and the patch antenna doesnt seem to work well... so I'm not so happy so far
[06:53] <Upu> look familiar ?
[06:54] <Upu> I'd mail them and ask them exactly what altitude it works too
[06:54] <Upu> as 27km is easily to exceed
[06:54] <Upu> or just get one that is known to work
[06:54] <MLow> or use both buahaha
[06:55] <MLow> test it out
[06:55] <Upu> yes I've done that before
[06:56] <MLow> at any rate I want to include some other sensors for altitude, barometric being one, so hoepfully if the gps cuts out, my software can be smart enough to kick it back into life below the altitude it stopped feeding good data
[06:56] <Upu> looks like it does work about 27km but this is based in inconclusive data, mail Argent Data and ask them
[06:57] <Upu> it should kick back in once it falls back below yes
[06:58] <MLow> or would i have to power cycle?
[06:58] <Upu> no should just work
[06:58] <Upu> again I know the ublox modules when they go out of cocom limits relock once they fall back within them
[06:59] <MLow> right right, but theres many ways the software can "follow" the rules
[06:59] <MLow> (Note: *Firmware special supports altitude > 25KM with adjusted algorithm for space application, but not for
[06:59] <MLow> very high dynamic*.
[06:59] <MLow> * Not for comerical airplane and land application. If it is used in both cases, large position error may occur
[06:59] <MLow> due to bad satellite signal.*)
[07:06] <Upu> sounds like "1G"
[07:06] <Upu> right work bbl
[07:10] <MLow> thanks for all the help
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[07:37] <M6KIK> Good Morning
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[07:40] <MLow> Morning
[07:40] <MLow> KF5KWE here
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[07:43] <MLow> trying to get trackuino code working with arduino 1.0.5 arrgg
[07:43] <MLow> its realllly not liking it
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[07:43] <MLow> daveake: o/
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[07:48] <daveake> moanings
[07:48] <Darkside> evning
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[08:20] <MLow> which com is my prolific usb to TTL adaptor hmm, oh yeah COM36 :|
[08:21] <MLow> what were they thinking
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[08:24] <daveake> what were who thinking?
[08:24] <daveake> That's Windows that is
[08:25] <daveake> Easily changed in device munger
[08:27] <MLow> Hehe
[08:28] <fsphil> many older (and probably some newer) windows programs assume one digit after COM
[08:32] <MLow> geez took all the fun out of it :(
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[08:40] <MLow> ok so as far as gps baud rates go, is there a sweet spot?
[08:40] <fsphil> most seem to be 4800 or 38400
[08:40] <MLow> my gps chip has the option to do 19200,
[08:40] <MLow> 19200,9600,4800,2400
[08:41] <MLow> seeing as my flight computer is an arduino, my thinking is that slow is better but after a certain amount it's just slowing things down more
[08:41] <fsphil> sorry, the ublox defaults to 9600 not 4800
[08:42] <fsphil> if you're using the hardware uart on the avr, the baud rate doesn't really matter
[08:42] <MLow> i am
[08:42] <fsphil> maybe even safer to stick with the default, incase it resets during flight
[08:42] <MLow> it has a coincell on the gps board itself, but your suggesting maybe if it dies?
[08:43] <fsphil> there's always that chance
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[08:44] <MLow> im trying to tinker with my gps because as is the trackuino code doesnt read it properly even though the serial output is good
[08:46] <MLow> wonder if there is a way i can get in there and test that
[08:46] <MLow> like temporarly remove the battery
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[08:54] <LeoBodnar> morning gents!
[08:56] <fsphil> morn!
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13_> morrow
[08:57] <fsphil> is saturday
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13_> is it?
[08:57] <UpuWork> morning
[08:58] <fsphil> morrow: the following day
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13_> I didn't know that :)
[08:58] <LeoBodnar> moarrow
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13_> oh yes I did, makes sense. Ignore me
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[09:07] <MLow> ok found the command to factory reset it, broke everything lol
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[09:37] <MLow> ok so i factory reset this gps, so as to simulate the battery on board dying
[09:37] <MLow> its been like 20 minutes, only has one sat
[09:40] <Vostok> that's normal
[09:42] <fsphil> what model of gps?
[09:43] <MLow> geez thats going to be nerve wracking if it happens
[09:43] <MLow> prolific
[09:44] <fsphil> that's probably the usb to serial bridge
[09:44] <fsphil> the gps module will be something else
[09:44] <MLow> GT-320FW
[09:46] <fsphil> those ceramic things do seem to be slow at locking. make sure there's a good ground plane below it
[09:47] <MLow> its on a metal window sill?
[09:47] <fsphil> sounds fine
[09:48] <MLow> 40 minutes, 5 sats
[09:49] <MLow> http://screencloud.net/v/jMi6
[09:50] <MLow> :\
[09:51] <MLow> ive never seen a gps take this long to lock
[09:53] <Vostok> it always takes some 30min or more for me
[09:53] <Vostok> if there is no backup battery
[09:54] <fsphil> the ublox modules seem to lock much faster
[09:54] <MLow> wonder if there is a US source for the flight ublox
[09:55] <MLow> 7 sats
[09:56] <MLow> playing rymdkapsel while i wait...
[09:56] <eroomde> gettenmorgen alles
[09:56] <eroomde> Vostok: wow that's a long time
[09:56] <eroomde> are you somewhere really north or south?
[09:57] <eroomde> eg lake vostok?
[09:57] <Vostok> 60N
[09:57] <Vostok> that's just for the cold start
[09:57] <fsphil> beats me
[09:57] <eroomde> that shouldn't be *too* bad
[09:57] <Vostok> with backup and good visibility fix takes a few seconds
[09:57] <eroomde> gps coverage nearer the poles is weaker
[09:58] <eroomde> never anything overhead and usually a lower elevation on average
[09:58] <eroomde> sounds just like some SNR issue on your previous unit
[10:00] <MLow> 8 sats
[10:01] <MLow> wtf
[10:02] <MLow> it went down to 1
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[10:05] <MLow> okay! DOP 3.7
[10:07] <MLow> pretty lame accuracy but at least it locked to something
[10:10] <MLow> so i got my radio doing tracking, but gps doesnt seem to read, my packets work tho
[10:10] <MLow> thats something
[10:11] <eroomde> progress is progress
[10:11] <MLow> not sure if i want to use another radio for real-time ish telemetry and backup tracking
[10:12] <MLow> the UK guys seem to have something cool going with low power low baud data
[10:14] <MLow> 2.2 DOP pretty good pretty good, it's slowly getting better
[10:14] <MLow> its....learning
[10:15] <fsphil> eroomde could have written a software GPS receiver in the time it's taken this one to get a lock :)
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[10:17] <nats`> hi boyz
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[10:24] <MLow> lawl
[10:29] <MLow> this thing is pretty sporatic
[10:29] <eroomde> a comment in the cpython implementation of fileio
[10:29] <eroomde> * Known likely problems:
[10:29] <eroomde> * - Making it work on Windows and other oddball platforms
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[10:30] <fsphil> true
[10:30] <MLow> I just use what works best for my task
[10:31] <MLow> either works best for me, uses the software the employer requires, etc
[10:32] <MLow> except mac os, i dont touch that
[10:32] <MLow> most accurate ive seen this thing get is 1.9
[10:32] <eroomde> usually windows is never the best for the task
[10:33] <eroomde> apart from mechnical cad
[10:33] <eroomde> i can't think of an exception to that off the top of my head anyway
[10:33] <eroomde> our customers have now realised that asking for reportins in MS Word rather than LaTeX is flogging a dead horse
[10:34] <fsphil> your customers are smarter than mine
[10:37] <MLow> it al boils down to the collective hive effect
[10:37] <eroomde> also in the fileio.c, some pretty funcky stabs at garbage collection if things don't go to plan
[10:37] <eroomde> goto bad_mode;
[10:37] <MLow> x company only accepts x file format
[10:37] <MLow> so on
[10:37] <MLow> up and down the chain of production
[10:37] <MLow> and x file format is proprietary to windows
[10:37] <eroomde> yes, you tell them to get over it
[10:37] <fsphil> nothing as depressing as receiving a screenshot in a docx file
[10:37] <eroomde> seriously
[10:37] <eroomde> it's amazing how many of the ryules turn out to be bullshit if you call them out as being bullshit
[10:38] <MLow> for instance the printers we use for signs, only have windows drivers, only accept a format from a windows only program, hundred thousand dollar printers
[10:38] <eroomde> I've also sent stink-ograms when I've asked for technical reports and got a slidument in reply
[10:39] <eroomde> that should be a firable offence, really
[10:39] <fsphil> slidument.. that's a new one
[10:40] <eroomde> if you've not read this, do
[10:40] <eroomde> http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB
[10:40] <eroomde> that should be a firable offence, reallymandatory reading for all engineers, I think
[10:40] <eroomde> this especially hits home as it's my business
[10:43] <MLow> saving for later
[10:44] <MLow> 2.1 DOP seems to be around 10-15ft accuracy
[10:44] <SIbot> In real units: 15 ft = 4.57 m
[10:45] <MLow> with this unit
[10:45] <MLow> gosh i really want a ublox for testing now
[10:45] <MLow> everyone says they are great
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[10:46] <eroomde> they're pretty decent
[10:46] <eroomde> sensitive and the tracking engine has good dynamics
[10:47] <fsphil> a good antenna is key
[10:47] <eroomde> better than sirfIII dynamically, though I think the sensitivity is probably similar between the two
[10:47] <MLow> maybe this first one I'll just do cheap
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[10:57] <MLow> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51 hm
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[11:15] <MLow> hm
[11:15] <MLow> ublox max-7c vs max-7q whats the difference
[11:16] <craag> 7c will work 1.65 - 3.6V VCC
[11:17] <craag> 7q will do 3.1? - 3.6V VCC but has a TCXO, so will lock a little faster and work a little better at really cold temps.
[11:17] <MLow> gotcha
[11:17] <MLow> thanks a ton
[11:21] <craag> MLow: 7Q is 2.7V - 3.6V VCC
[11:22] <MLow> so 3.3v nom
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[11:23] <craag> yep
[11:24] <MLow> looking at the data sheet it wouldnt take much to put one on a board
[11:25] <craag> They're very easy chips to work with
[11:25] <eroomde> i did actually have 1 not come up after a reflow
[11:25] <eroomde> but that's 1 in about 30
[11:26] <eroomde> difficult to trace the cause, i assume DoA as i'm usually consistent and conservative in how i solder up boards
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[11:30] <tweetBot> @adamcudworth: HABE 11 should be taking to the skies tomorrow around 11am. Callsign $$HABE on 434.2mhz. Tracking on http://t.co/Ma79ksNZun #UKHAS
[11:34] <eroomde> taking to the skies
[11:34] <eroomde> vomit
[11:35] <eroomde> Lowerstoford: any more rocket thoughts?
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[11:42] <cuddykid> looks like i'm going to be battling the winds tomorrow at the launch site
[11:50] <gonzo_> lay off the onions
[11:51] <eroomde> we were just sniggering about someone who uses FEA as a crutch for not being able to do stress analysis mathematically
[11:52] <eroomde> he described something as being bad because 'it's a bit yellow - i'd prefer it if it was a bit more blue'
[11:52] <eroomde> wrt the colormaps FEA packages use to show stress in a part
[11:52] <eroomde> anyway, all the usual bad-sign bullshit
[11:53] <eroomde> but then i remembered that before we wrote the predictor we'd look at jetstream forecasts on wunderground and say things like 'ooooooh- it's a bit pink for my liking'
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[11:55] <MLow> colorblind
[11:55] <MLow> otherwise id laugh
[11:56] <MLow> but i dont at all see whats the matter with pink
[11:56] <MLow> only that its one of the brighter ones
[11:58] <fsphil> horrible colour
[11:59] <fsphil> it and magenta, which is just another form of pink
[12:00] <MLow> im much more fond of shapes
[12:00] <MLow> except rectangles
[12:00] <MLow> uck
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> Has SP9UOB been heard recently?
[12:03] <gonzo_> if it were pink, it's probably oen of Dave's
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> Dave has pink oens
[12:10] <gonzo_> so the roumors say
[12:20] <daveake> I just copied Upu
[12:20] <daveake> He owns the TM
[12:20] <gonzo_> ownes, or oen's
[12:20] <gonzo_> owns
[12:21] <MLow> what do you need to connect a ublox 7Q to an arduino it doesnt look like much
[12:21] <gonzo_> Agh, I can't even type typo's correctly
[12:21] <MLow> balance caps?
[12:21] <MLow> logic voltage converter/voltage divider
[12:25] Action: SpeedEvil yells at arsolforce.
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[12:25] Action: SpeedEvil wants his vacuum pump.
[12:25] <gonzo_> I thought they were parcelfarce
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: They recently underwent a several million pound rebranding exercise.
[12:26] <gonzo_> last thing I had through them I was chasing around dorset for two weeks
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> A 'you were out' card - delivered by the postman - in an envelope - lacks a certain level of authenticity.
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> Missing three digits off the end of the tracking number doesn't help either.
[12:28] <gonzo_> they leave them at a local post office in my area. But then it means that I have to try and find a sat morn that I can get to collect it.
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah - transport is a real problem here.
[12:28] <gonzo_> As post office iopening hours equate to me not being able to get there hours
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> No car - infrequent busses - health issues.
[12:29] <gonzo_> the delivery certainly gave me blood pressure issues
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> (a very small part of the use of the pump will be a HA simulator)
[12:30] <gonzo_> when I finally got to the post office and they told me that, no it looks like they have sent it to the one on the other side of town. I sank to my knees in the shop and banged my gead on the counter. To their ammusment/concert fior my mental health
[12:31] <gonzo_> concern
[12:31] <gonzo_> could have been a concert..... Head banging, an ovature in G minor
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[12:52] <cuddykid> for those who use extra batts to power go pro. Will 6AAs be enough to provide extra juice for GoPro 3? Going to set it in 30fps mode to get more juice out of it too
[12:54] <mattbrejza> measure the current draw and find out ;)
[12:54] <Darkside> i think we usually use 6x AAs for our flights
[12:54] <Darkside> but ys
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[13:15] <Upu> Did Cassie inhale some Helium before doing this ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7lxiP4aNLY
[13:16] <chris_99> don't spose any of you guys know where to get wired JST connectors in the UK per chance
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[13:17] <Upu> which JST ?
[13:18] <chris_99> JST 2.5mm SM 4 pin
[13:19] <chris_99> exactly like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121223449587?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[13:19] <chris_99> (but that's in china)
[13:20] <mattbrejza> try pololu.com
[13:20] <Upu> don't have those sorry
[13:21] <mattbrejza> although us
[13:21] <eroomde> bite the bullet, buy the crimp tool
[13:21] <chris_99> heh they're like £40
[13:21] <daveake> mortgage the house
[13:21] <mattbrejza> http://proto-pic.co.uk/jst-jumper-2-wire-assembly/
[13:21] <daveake> oh not so bad
[13:22] <chris_99> only 2 wire mattbrejza alas
[13:22] <mattbrejza> http://proto-pic.co.uk/jst-jumper-3-wire-assembly/
[13:22] <mattbrejza> oh 4
[13:22] <eroomde> £40 is nothing for a crimp tool
[13:22] <mattbrejza> http://proto-pic.co.uk/jst-jumper-4-wire-assembly/ lol
[13:22] <eroomde> if you have to do this more than like 5 times it'll pay for itself
[13:22] <chris_99> that's not the right connector mattbrejza
[13:22] <chris_99> it's not 2.5mm
[13:23] <chris_99> i only need like 2 of these alas eroomde
[13:24] <chris_99> i guess i'll try and solder a wire to the pins instead
[13:26] <eroomde> no don't do that
[13:26] <eroomde> that's awful
[13:26] <eroomde> really really bad engineering, bad chraftsmanship, bad everything
[13:26] <eroomde> don;t do iot
[13:26] <eroomde> do it properly
[13:26] <chris_99> but to do it properly i need to spend 40 quid heh
[13:27] <eroomde> yes
[13:27] <eroomde> so suck it up
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[13:27] <mattbrejza> just push bare wire into the connector and cover in glue gun
[13:27] <mattbrejza> sorted
[13:27] <chris_99> that's a good idea
[13:28] <cuddykid> payload weighs in quite a bit less than I thought it would
[13:28] <eroomde> he was joking chris_99
[13:29] <chris_99> heh oh
[13:30] <mattbrejza> what are you actually trying to make contact with?
[13:30] <mattbrejza> also farnell do pre-crimped ones http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2031+204367&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=jst+sm&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial
[13:31] <chris_99> led strips i bought from china
[13:31] <chris_99> a while back
[13:31] <chris_99> how do you attach those to the JST connector?
[13:32] <mattbrejza> get the housing and just push them in
[13:33] <chris_99> ah cool that sounds like a plan then
[13:33] <mattbrejza> if you thought the glue gun idea was a good one you might as well just solder to the pcb
[13:34] <chris_99> this seems far better
[13:34] <eroomde> .... yes
[13:41] <eroomde> the parametric search on the farnell website for ethernet switches is great
[13:42] <eroomde> voltage, current, length, width, height
[13:42] <eroomde> those are your options
[13:42] <mattbrejza> well at least something like ethernet switches they dont have that many (i would assume)
[13:43] <eroomde> 404
[13:43] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[13:43] <mattbrejza> surely 'ports' would be an easy one though
[13:44] <cuddykid> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=e4431f9e38ab00217543f79b5c230abdd8848551 is that close enough for cambridge uni people ;)
[13:44] <eroomde> yes but you'd have to call-off a launch with that prediction
[13:44] <mattbrejza> deploy the chase bike!
[13:44] <eroomde> or else change the flight parameters
[13:45] <cuddykid> haha - yes, eroomde, I can change the rates
[13:46] <daveake> After my last flight, not sure I'd be flying that one tbh
[13:46] <daveake> Only with lots of gas
[13:47] <daveake> don't aim for past Cambridge in case it drops short
[13:48] <eroomde> agreed
[13:49] <adamgreig> haha cuddykid, if you manage that close to the centre I'll get on my bike ;)
[13:49] <adamgreig> see if you can hit my garden, that'd be convenient
[13:50] <daveake> if a tad worrying as it comes in :)
[13:50] <adamgreig> :P
[13:52] <daveake> I've done the "coming down with power lines/phone lines/houses/cars around" thing
[13:52] <daveake> it's part "this is cool I'll see it land", and part "oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit"
[13:53] <fsphil> / giant radio dish
[13:53] <daveake> oh yeah that was cool :)
[13:53] <fsphil> very
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[13:56] <daveake> View from near the landing spot http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/P1070978-682x1024.jpg
[13:56] <daveake> The flight path was straight at the dish then did a 180
[13:57] <cuddykid> haha
[13:57] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, would have been an interesting recovery exercise if it had landed in the dish... ;)
[13:57] <cuddykid> when was this?
[13:57] <daveake> in the summer
[13:57] <daveake> on a Sunday - nobody working there
[13:58] <daveake> Shame ... they missed seeing a UFO
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[13:58] <daveake> Especially as this is the field it landed in http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/2000AD/ChilboltonFractalverticalTWK.jpg
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[13:59] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
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[14:04] <fsphil> seems like the sort of thing they'd be interested in
[14:05] <gonzo_> on their faq page I love the :
[14:05] <gonzo_> We do believe that some are hoaxed every year, but there is definitely a real phenomenon interacting with these man-made designs!
[14:05] <gonzo_> how far in denial can a person get?
[14:06] <daveake> a long way obviously
[14:07] <daveake> well it is a long river
[14:07] <fsphil> that was deep
[14:07] <daveake> I just go with the flow
[14:07] <fsphil> are you shore?
[14:09] <daveake> nah it's just a stream of conciousness
[14:09] <LazyLeopard> A dammed stream...
[14:10] <fsphil> oh buoy
[14:11] <gonzo_> another wave of puns!
[14:11] <LazyLeopard> they ebb and flow
[14:11] <gonzo_> at least thaey are current
[14:11] <gonzo_> but you can't bank on that
[14:14] <fsphil> at least we didn't get a flood this time
[14:16] <gonzo_> we do get tied up with them
[14:17] <gonzo_> pft, tide
[14:18] <gonzo_> vnc, the fun of not seeing what you typed till a few sec after hitting return
[14:18] <gonzo_> gived me a sinking feelin
[14:19] <LazyLeopard> only a few seconds? ;)
[14:19] <daveake> Very Nearly Current
[14:19] <fsphil> thought it had dried up
[14:20] <gonzo_> wound the colours resolution right down. Speeds it up, but it looks awful
[14:20] <fsphil> have you enabled jpeg compression?
[14:20] <fsphil> I find it speeds things up quite a bit
[14:20] <gonzo_> did you mean that. I sedimentit
[14:21] <gonzo_> not sure my version has that. Will look though
[14:21] <fsphil> I've got tightvnc
[14:21] <fsphil> tigervnc on linux, also supports jpeg
[14:22] <gonzo_> think this is realvnc. Quite an old copy though
[14:25] <daveake> You'll be up the creek with one that old
[14:25] <daveake> Need a current one
[14:26] <gonzo_> I'll float that idea
[14:26] <gonzo_> eddy chance I get
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[15:11] <mdcarter> Hey guys
[15:11] <mdcarter> I launched a balloon last week end and I have some questions on the outcome, maybe you could help me
[15:12] <eroomde> fire away
[15:12] <mdcarter> I launched an Hyowee 1200 ballon and it reached 23.4km high
[15:12] <mdcarter> It rose at a speed of 4.4m/s average
[15:12] <mdcarter> I calculated that it should have gone higher than that
[15:12] <eroomde> payload mass?
[15:12] <mdcarter> around 1750g
[15:13] <eroomde> hmm yes, probably should have gone higher than that
[15:13] <mdcarter> I had a lest of 3kg to know when the balloon was filled enough, but it didn't worked really great
[15:13] <eroomde> should have broken 30km
[15:13] <eroomde> did you launch with any rain?
[15:13] <mdcarter> I think I under inflated it, so it should hae gone higher, not lower
[15:13] <mdcarter> there wasn't rain on the ground but the weather was shitty
[15:13] <mdcarter> a bit windy and thick clouds
[15:14] <eroomde> if it got wet in a cloud then that's a common cause of failure
[15:14] <mdcarter> also it was my first time
[15:14] <eroomde> ice stops it stretching properly
[15:14] <mdcarter> oh I see
[15:14] <mdcarter> didn't tought about that
[15:14] <eroomde> the crystals cut into the latex and cause a premature burst
[15:14] <eroomde> often seems to be around 24km too, when it does happen
[15:14] <mdcarter> aslo can me and my partners touching the balloon can weaken it a lot ? we had gloves of course but I wonder
[15:14] <eroomde> not really
[15:14] <eroomde> that shouldn't make a huge difference
[15:15] <mdcarter> okay I was worried about that
[15:15] <eroomde> people worry about that too much
[15:15] <mdcarter> so probably the water then
[15:15] <eroomde> unless they sweat acid
[15:15] <eroomde> yeah, that would be my guess
[15:15] <mdcarter> that a really good thing to know, avoid any clouds =D
[15:15] <eroomde> or a defect in the balloon
[15:15] <mdcarter> and di you have any advice to know if your ballon is properly inflated or not ?
[15:15] <mdcarter> the "lest" technique was a bit shitty
[15:16] <eroomde> i'm not familiar with that technique
[15:16] <eroomde> explain it to me
[15:17] <mdcarter> I had a jug of water, weigthing the lift I wanted tethered to the ballon (around 3kg)
[15:17] <mdcarter> and when the jug was beginning to lift it was filled enough
[15:18] <mdcarter> but it's hard to judge if the jug is really being lifted by the ballon or not and I underinflated the ballon a bit according to it's speed
[15:18] <adamgreig> "lest" as in "ballast"?
[15:18] <mdcarter> yeah
[15:18] <mdcarter> I'm sorry
[15:18] <mdcarter> French dude here
[15:19] <eroomde> it's hard in the wind
[15:19] <eroomde> but it works quite well without wind
[15:19] <mdcarter> yeah i figured
[15:19] <mdcarter> if there's a next time, I'll do this in summer :D
[15:20] <eroomde> a mass-flow meter would be the "correct" solution
[15:20] <eroomde> but that's slightly beyond a lot of amateur budgets
[15:20] <eroomde> or amateur knowledge of fluids and industrial systems and stuff, or whatever
[15:20] <eroomde> even though they're fairly simple in principle
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[15:21] <mdcarter> hehe I didn't knew about this device
[15:21] <mdcarter> but yeah probably expensive for a one time thing
[15:22] <mdcarter> the project already costed me quite a lot, the helium alone, wow ><
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[15:22] <mdcarter> another question, I guess I know the answer but anyway
[15:22] <mdcarter> the ballon was spinning all the way to the top
[15:23] <mdcarter> any way to reduce this motion a bit ? or at least stablize it horizontally (to have great panos)
[15:23] <mdcarter> *stabilize
[15:23] <nats`> mdcarter where do you launch in France ?
[15:23] <mdcarter> hey nats, we spoke last time ;)
[15:24] <mdcarter> champagne ardennes, near Reims
[15:24] <nats`> hoo you changed your nickname :)
[15:24] <mdcarter> it worked !
[15:24] <nats`> cool !
[15:24] <nats`> you logged data ?
[15:24] <mdcarter> http://instagram.com/p/h08U4xl4_N/
[15:24] <mdcarter> I logged a lot of data yeah
[15:24] <mdcarter> I used this : http://www.hexpertsystems.com/zlog/Z7/ really great
[15:25] <nats`> and the picture comes from a webcam ?
[15:25] <mdcarter> no I had a goPro inside and 2 little chinese camera (pointing up and down)
[15:25] <nats`> really nice picture
[15:25] <mdcarter> thanks =)
[15:26] <nats`> and how evolved the legislation now ?
[15:27] <nats`> :)
[15:27] <nats`> you have an insight on that ?
[15:27] <eroomde> mdcarter: how long was the line betwen balloon and payload?
[15:27] <eroomde> i know reims
[15:27] <eroomde> dad is from beaune, go through champagne every time i drive down
[15:27] <nats`> eroomde take a loop by paris next time :)
[15:27] <mdcarter> @nats I don't know but I know it changed this week, I'll contact them if I ever try this again
[15:28] <eroomde> nats`: sure!
[15:28] <eroomde> you have a zvl
[15:28] <mdcarter> eroomde: I had a line of 15meters between the ballon and the chute, and from the chute to the ballon 4 lines going to each sides of the boxes, around 3m long
[15:28] <eroomde> and presumably a bottle of vosne romanee in the cellar
[15:28] <eroomde> so i'm game
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[15:29] <eroomde> mdcarter: ok, that sounds quite sensible and well made, so that wouldn't be the cause of the spinning
[15:29] <mdcarter> I saw some german dude adding "wings" to their box
[15:29] <eroomde> might be some stresses in the 15m line, twisting up?
[15:29] <mdcarter> but the videos they made had the box spin as well
[15:30] <eroomde> could try braid/tape instead (which is more resistent to twisting)
[15:30] <eroomde> we have used wings before to help with stability
[15:30] <eroomde> close enough
[15:30] <mdcarter> oh so it really helps ?
[15:30] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/3803248
[15:31] <eroomde> we did that when we wanted *really* low spin to test a star camera
[15:31] <eroomde> also there's a guy here called richard babbington who made an amazing gyro-stabilisation system
[15:32] <mdcarter> wait wow
[15:32] <mdcarter> 2 balloons
[15:32] <eroomde> oh yes, that was to get a float
[15:33] <mdcarter> and the "wings" are made of fabirc ?
[15:33] <eroomde> we had one with lots of lift, and one with the same lift as the payload
[15:33] <mdcarter> *fabric
[15:33] <eroomde> so it flew up to 28km, then cut away the lifty one
[15:33] <eroomde> and then it spent a while with a very very low vertical speed under the other one
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[15:33] <eroomde> yes, parachute nylon
[15:35] <eroomde> that was definitely a very rare amount of effort though
[15:35] <eroomde> usually we wouldn't bother with that
[15:36] <cuddykid> just called BOC who were meant to be delivering h2 today.. turns out the depot has 're-raised' the delivery until monday...
[15:37] <cuddykid> I have one partially filled h2 cylinder but not sure whether I've got enough gas in it
[15:37] <mdcarter> that's great eroomde =)
[15:37] <mdcarter> and this guy richad babbington is craazy o_O
[15:37] <eroomde> yep
[15:38] <nats`> eroomde I have a zvl at work :p
[15:38] <nats`> hard to sneak in the lab even the week end :p
[15:39] <nats`> but good for wine
[15:39] <nats`> I have enough to kill the earth :D
[15:39] <eroomde> you've not met me yet
[15:47] <DL1SGP> heh
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[16:04] <DL7AD> good evening
[16:05] <x-f> good evening
[16:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> ello
[16:06] <DL7AD> good evening @all :)
[16:13] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: cool intercept of the 50sat :)
[16:14] <x-f> PE2G is much more successful with it
[16:14] <x-f> and it shouldn't be on snus actually..
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[16:22] <x-f> but, while there are no balloons flying, it's just something from a higher altitude
[16:23] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) joined #highaltitude.
[16:23] <mattbrejza> it doesnt have gps though?
[16:23] <x-f> sadly no
[16:23] <x-f> it doesn't have a clock either
[16:24] <mattbrejza> lol who put it at bermuda...
[16:24] <x-f> just saw it's RTTY on the waterfall - elevation 1.5deg, range 2900km :) way too weak to decode though
[16:24] <x-f> its*
[16:25] <SP3OSJ> no comments: http://s27.postimg.org/msw24jms3/1_2.jpg
[16:25] <x-f> mattbrejza, apparently it's a snus feature
[16:27] <mattbrejza> SP3OSJ: got enough boost converters? :P
[16:27] <mattbrejza> x-f: is 50sat in sat tracking programs like hrd?
[16:29] <SP3OSJ> mattbrejza: why?
[16:29] <x-f> mattbrejza, it is object 2013-066W (from tle-new.txt)
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[16:29] <x-f> i haven't used hrd
[16:30] <mattbrejza> SP3OSJ: i was just remarking that youve managed to squeeze a lot of them onto one board
[16:30] <mattbrejza> x-f: probably for the best
[16:30] <mattbrejza> but its the program that happens to be on this pc
[16:30] <x-f> i like Gpredict :)
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[16:34] <DL7AD> x-f: me too
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[16:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[16:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> merry christmas ;-)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pcWlyUu8U4
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[16:45] <fsphil> yikes, 10 years since Beagle 2: http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/what-ever-happened-to-beagle-2.html
[16:47] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: good one
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[16:49] <mfa298> wow, 10 years really, I hadn't realised it was so long ago.
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[16:50] <fsphil> mmm
[16:50] <fsphil> I was looking forward to seeing it working
[16:50] <fsphil> was very disappointing
[16:51] <mfa298> I remember there being a lot of hype just before it was due to land
[16:51] <fsphil> about time it was tried again
[16:51] <fsphil> only properly this time
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[16:53] <gonzo_> I went to a talk by colin pilinger, after the failure, but before the official conclusion
[16:53] <gonzo_> so a lot of the talk was his views of why it failed and what could have been, if things were different
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[17:13] <cuddykid> pending no medical emergencies, I should have another h2 cylinder by 9am tomorrow.. so BOC says..
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[17:14] <M6KIK> hi
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[17:14] <cuddykid> otherwise, I'm going to have to scrub it
[17:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> will you be up a t 6am ?
[17:14] <daveake> cuddykid Remember my offer :)
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[17:15] <daveake> fingers crossed BOC sort you out though :)
[17:17] <cuddykid> daveake: thanks - but it'll be a logistical nightmare getting gas from yours to mine in time! fingers crossed :)
[17:17] <daveake> prolly
[17:18] <daveake> depends on if I feel like delivering :)
[17:18] <cuddykid> the latest I can get this in the air is 1pm by current predictions
[17:18] <daveake> but anyhoo let's hope BOC deliver
[17:18] <daveake> ok
[17:18] <cuddykid> aiming for 10:30 though - which means if BOC deliver on time then probably 11ish
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> - missing the point. http://i.imgur.com/4Z9utWT.jpg
[17:19] <mfa298> just hope BOC havn't been taking lessons from parcelfarce or DHL.
[17:19] <cuddykid> or yodel
[17:19] <daveake> or Yodel, in which case they'll throw the cylinder into next door's garden next week
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[17:20] <LazyLeopard> ...or the garden of a house with a slightly different number on a street with a slightly different name in the next town...
[17:21] <daveake> I see you've been inflicted too :p
[17:21] <M6KIK> Hello
[17:21] <LazyLeopard> Generally, going to the Parcelfarce depot is the most likely way of actually getting your parcel, but you need to find out that it's there...
[17:22] <LazyLeopard> ...and take proof along, or they'll likely deny it...
[17:23] <mfa298> I think the one I've been annoyed with most is UPS
[17:23] <mfa298> partly as they don't seem to particularly like you arranging to collect from the depot
[17:23] <daveake> Our local parcelfarce had a phone with the bell removed, so in the unlikely event you didn't get a "busy" tone then you'd think a phone was actually ringing
[17:24] <daveake> UPS is the most reliable IME
[17:24] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. They're good at the "we'll deliver on..." promises that helpfully don't indicate a time or anything else useful, too.
[17:24] <mfa298> UPS are good if they deliver when you're around and you can get to the door quickly enough.
[17:25] <daveake> yeah
[17:25] <daveake> I send a fair amount of stuff. FedEx managed to lose 1 package
[17:25] <daveake> Which, considering it weighed 20kg, took some doing
[17:26] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Best if you keep a lookout so you can sprint for the door when you sight them approaching...
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> daveake: I've had a courier manage to lose a solar panel.
[17:26] <mfa298> I think UPS pre-write the cards though as half the time, by the time I've got to the door there's just a card there.
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> daveake: One of two - one arrived just fine.
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> daveake: this was about 1.8m*60cm*5cm.
[17:26] <daveake> Yeah I caught one guy who posted a "you were out" card without calling
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> It took them a week to find it.
[17:26] <daveake> wow
[17:27] <daveake> I called the depot who sent him back here :)
[17:27] <mfa298> Parcelfarce seem to do a reasonable job here, as long as you don't mind them arriving between 7am and 8am.
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[17:50] <M6KIK> Ahah! I have around £850 of my savings that I can use towards a transceiver
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[17:53] <mfa298> have a look around at what's out there and work out what you're going to need (depending on what you want to try out)
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[18:00] <M6KIK> mfa298: I'm thinking about the FT-857
[18:00] <M6KIK> It should be pretty future proof as it has quite high power
[18:00] <mfa298> it does seem like a reasonable radio although I have no experience of it myself.
[18:01] <mfa298> the power levels on it are pretty standard for a radio. Some have a bit more power on 2m and 70cm
[18:02] <mfa298> I think the thing that would annoy me most about the FT-857 is the use of menu's to access features
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[18:02] <mfa298> I think it's similar to the 817 in that respect.
[18:03] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: Tom, how many APRS packets are on that test wav file?
[18:03] <M6KIK> mfa298: I mean comparitively, so it's futureproof
[18:04] <M6KIK> Also, there's the 897 which is the same but without all the menus
[18:05] <mfa298> you'll find the majority of radios with HF/6/2/70 will be 100W on HF and 6m, with up to 100W on 2m and upto 50W on 70cms
[18:06] <mfa298> if you want HF/6/2/70 there are also suitable radios from Kenwood and Icom.
[18:08] <mfa298> I suspect the FT-897 is still mostly menu driven. Even something like http://www.rigpix.com/kenwood/ts2000.htm has some stuff in a menu - but the features you tend to use are on buttons.
[18:10] <mfa298> but then it depends on what you're doing, half the features may be more useful on HF
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[18:11] <M6KIK> I don't mind menus all that much
[18:14] <mfa298> they can get annoying if you want to turn things on quickly. But then they do give a more compact radio so something you can transport elsewhere easily.
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[18:16] <mfa298> So I often use the TS-2000 (like the link above) either from home, or when doing a decent station out somewhere (I prefer it for HF), But when in the car I tend to use the FT-817 as it sits on the dashboard nicely.
[18:17] <mfa298> I might even take the FT-817 out if I'm walking (if it's battery was in better condition).
[18:19] <mfa298> having a look to see if there are groups (usually on yahoo groups) for a particular radio can be useful as well as you might find out if there are common problems
[18:20] <mfa298> e.g. earlier FT-817s were known for blowing their finals.
[18:20] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
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[18:23] <Ericc> Anyone know how to refit the canons li-poly battery to other power supplier ?
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[18:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: You can disable APRS importer, battery should be dead now
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[18:28] <x-f> Ericc, make or purchase a fake battery, attach wires to supply power from outside
[18:29] <Upu> rgr SP9UOB-Tom
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[18:29] <Upu> can I remove from Spacenear.us SP9UOB-Tom ?
[18:30] <Ericc> I saw therere some choice but the power supply also from ENERGIZER?
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[18:31] <Ericc> will battery still work at -60 degrees in Celsius?
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[18:33] <x-f> you probably won't experience such temps inside your payload, usually they are somewhere between +20 and -20 Celsius
[18:34] <x-f> you can use Energizer Lithiums instead of LiPos, but you will need to regulate them down or boost them up, depending on how many you use
[18:37] <Ericc> I want to let my camera take photos per 20 sec , how many batteries do you recommend to install ?
[18:38] <x-f> what camera is it?
[18:40] <Ericc> canon a2500
[18:43] <x-f> CHDK isn't available for your camera yet
[18:44] <Ericc> I have a2400 too
[18:44] <Ericc> I think this one is available to CHDK
[18:44] <x-f> yep
[18:45] <M6KIK> mfa298: It seems that the FT 857 may well have an audio in
[18:45] <mfa298> M6KIK: most radios have audio in - usually known as a microphone.
[18:46] <x-f> Ericc, we used four AA batteries with a LM2596 regulator (http://www.ebay.com/itm/180947008880), batteries had plenty of power left even after five hours when we finally found it - regulated down to 4.1V to replace the LiPo
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[18:48] <x-f> there are different options, of course
[18:48] <soylentbomb> What do you need from the 857?
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[18:50] <M6KIK> mfa298: You know what I mean. They can easily be wired to 3.5mm jacks
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[18:53] <Ericc> how does LM2596 regulator work? any information?
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[18:57] <x-f> it's a switching regulator
[18:58] <x-f> and beyond my knowledge..
[18:58] <Ericc> so four battery is enough and it should be connect to LM2596 regulator first then to camera
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bkOMDgwFA28C&lpg=PA357&ots=F3glYI7YVx&dq=the%20art%20of%20electronics%20switching%20regulator&pg=PA355#v=onepage&q=the%20art%20of%20electronics%20switching%20regulator&f=false
[18:59] <Ericc> I just have no idea how to install it
[19:00] <Ericc> Thank you
[19:00] <x-f> thanks, Leo :)
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[19:01] <x-f> Ericc, well, you will need to do some soldering
[19:03] <Ericc> Maybe I can get the board first then find the problem then ask
[19:03] <x-f> perhaps you can get a cheap LiPo battery for your camera from Ebay, pop it open, get the battery out and use just its case
[19:04] <Ericc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACK-DC90-AC-Power-Adapter-for-Canon-IXUS-A4000-A3400-A2400-A2300-125HS-240HS-/251191114464?pt=Batteries_Chargers&hash=item3a7c283ae0
[19:04] <Ericc> like this one?
[19:05] <x-f> or that, yeah
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[19:06] <Ericc> I also need a connector right?
[19:08] <mfa298> M6KIK: most radios can be easily wired to a 3.5mm jack if you've got the right tools
[19:08] <Ericc> from the board to the fake battery
[19:09] <arko> THIS IS AWESOME
[19:09] <arko> http://earth.nullschool.net/
[19:11] <x-f> Ericc, that's up to you, however make sure all your connection stay safely connected during the flight
[19:12] <x-f> one moment is after the balloon has burst (post-burst chaos), another - landing
[19:13] <x-f> (our camera turned off right on burst)
[19:14] <arko> LeoBodnar: ^ link above
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> wham! this is cool
[19:15] <arko> :D i know right!?
[19:15] <arko> if we could have this over lay on spacenear.....
[19:15] <arko> it would be amazing
[19:15] <arko> kinda looks like war games
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> needs to go on a 100+" TV
[19:16] <tweetBot> @arkorobotics: Real time 3D wind data visualizer!! http://t.co/g0S0c5XAOl #ukhas #hab #highaltitude
[19:17] <arko> oh wow that was fast
[19:17] <arko> LeoBodnar: hahaha
[19:17] <arko> i was thinking the same thing
[19:17] <arko> have a tv in the room that just shows this all the time
[19:17] <arko> some stats too
[19:18] <LeoBodnar> <NSAbot> we are on the case
[19:19] <bertrik> Anyone here following the $50 sat? Do you know the RTTY baud rate?
[19:19] <arko> lol
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> being a surveillance officer must be the most boring job in the world
[19:19] <arko> #cubesat should know
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[19:25] <LeoBodnar> different pressure altitudes too! woohoo http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=-7.22,40.46,535
[19:25] <arko> yes!
[19:25] <arko> there is a menu!
[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Neat!
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> duh! indeed
[19:29] <arko> dude, 700hPa is perfect
[19:29] <arko> send payload to the uk from there
[19:32] Action: SP9UOB-Tom has lost tweezers HELP ;-)
[19:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh sits nicely on the second screen
[19:36] <x-f> bertrik, 100bd
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[19:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Click the surface for a specific spot, and double clcick for colour change
[19:44] <M6KIK> Is £500 for a used FT 857D any good?
[19:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Depends on its state and batteries etc.
[19:47] <mfa298> may also depend on where it comes from and how much you trust the seller.
[19:47] <mfa298> if looking on ebay I tend to watch things like that for a few weeks / months before buying.
[19:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is such a small size necessary for you, it can be a real pain trying to change settings with fewer physical controls to hand ?
[19:48] <mfa298> and I's still recommend looking at the various sets of radios out there ICOM and Kenwood have some decent options as well which you might have better features and/or be cheaper
[19:49] <M6KIK> My dad basically said no don't buy anything that expensive off ebay
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[19:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> I would always want to test drive a rig of that nature, are you near any dealers shops its well worth asking could you pop in and try a few rigs, they are often very accomodating.
[19:52] <mfa298> I've been lucky buying radios on ebay but I've done a fair bit of research first.
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[19:54] <M6KIK> mfa298: he'd rather I go to Lynchies in Chertsey and see if he has anything
[19:55] <mfa298> ML&S if that's where you mean should have a decent range of radios but you might have to choose your time for a particular 2nd hand radio
[19:55] <mfa298> there's also Nevada Radio in portswood who always seem helpful when I've been there.
[19:55] <mfa298> portsmouth even
[19:56] <mfa298> ML&S would probably have a decent range of new radios so you can potentially try some out if they're being helpful.
[20:01] <mfa298> seeing the questions you were asking in ##hamradio earlier, if it's the same as the 817, the 6pin data port has audio in/out - designed for data modes but might also do voice.
[20:01] <mfa298> however I think using that to key the ptt doesn't take audio from the mic input.
[20:02] <mfa298> the other connector has serial on it for control (although I'm not sure if you can control all functions via serial)
[20:06] <Upu> most
[20:06] <Upu> the switch antenna never seemed to work for me
[20:06] <Upu> get a second hand 817 Will
[20:07] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-FT-817ND-multiband-portable-mobile-transceiver-/261352251976?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Ham_Radio_Receivers_Transceivers&hash=item3cd9cee248
[20:07] <Upu> just assume the battery pack will be duff and that you'll need to replace it
[20:07] <mfa298> I think he's thinking about something with a bit more power for when he does the Intermediate and Full
[20:08] <Upu> Second hand 897
[20:08] <mfa298> although if he's still thinkign about internet remote control he'll need to get that full quickly.
[20:08] <Upu> beast :)
[20:09] <Upu> Yaesu seriously need to make an 817MkII
[20:10] <mfa298> that 817 looks like it could get expensive (and if not could be a good buy), says it's only ~6months old!
[20:11] <mfa298> surely that would be ND++ or MkIII (ND would be MkII)
[20:11] <Upu> well either or
[20:11] <Upu> OLED display, DSP, better battery, more power
[20:12] <mfa298> remote interface with more buttons (less use of the menus) would be nice.
[20:12] <daveake> ^^ this
[20:12] <gonzo_> if he hard wires the system next door, then will it really be remost?
[20:13] <daveake> "next door" isn't remote, no
[20:13] <daveake> cancel that
[20:13] <daveake> "another room" isn't
[20:13] <daveake> suspect next door i
[20:13] <daveake> s
[20:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its outside of the address of the license
[20:13] <mfa298> if its just multicore cable to next door you could probably argue its not remote.
[20:14] <daveake> just add /A to the callsign :)
[20:15] <mfa298> not sure what the terms have to say about remote over dedicated cable.
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doesn't matter its outside of the address, you would need to operate /P/A/M or be remote
[20:16] <mfa298> although most of the remote stuff seems to say only RF links within the license schedule for Foundation and Intermediate
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Only use RF within the scheduled bands your licensed for.
[20:17] <mfa298> which I suppose means you could use a private wifi link with the intermediate license as long as it's not encrypted.
[20:18] <mfa298> and you're using channels which overlap with the AR license.
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wireless.org.uk%2Fremote.htm&ei=cWurUp6YEIiz4AT7hYCABA&usg=AFQjCNFZ4vc33N__lStBETal7B6lbMVNpw&sig2=h8v9VcmLk6YWTxLmYpVcdQ discuss none radio links towrds end
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> full license required
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[20:21] <mfa298> my understanding is anything that's not RF within the schedule for that license requires full.
[20:21] <gb73d> arko tnx fer the wind sim link i tweeted it
[20:22] <gb73d> was on UKHAS
[20:22] <mfa298> assuming 802.11g/802.11a frequencies overlap the schedule for intermediate you could probably use that as your rf link as long as it's within the license terms (no encryption, not connected to the internet)
[20:24] <gb73d> https://twitter.com/NMewsik4
[20:28] <gonzo_> if will put his address as both houses. Similar to the way companies have unit1-4 yyx ind est
[20:28] <gonzo_> hen nolonger next door
[20:29] <mfa298> might need to check what the license terms mean by remote, although I suspect it's not defined.
[20:30] <gonzo_> the whole thing is kloosly worded#
[20:30] <mfa298> I suspect the intention of remote is not being sat in front of the radio (i.e. using a handheld in the garden to control a larger radio in the shack as some of the kenwoods can do)
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[20:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Remote is anything outside the Main Station Address.
[20:33] <gonzo_> if he's looking at an 857, thise radios will run with a remote head kit anyway
[20:33] <gonzo_> depending on the distance of the cable, thne that could be a possability
[20:33] <gonzo_> though depends what the reasons are that hois radios need to be next door
[20:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Keep the radio in the Main adress and run the co-ax to the the other house ?
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[20:35] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[20:52] <gb73d> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/12130915-change-3-landing-tomorrow.html
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[21:01] <fsphil> anyone watching out for meteors tonight?
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[21:01] <fsphil> clear skies here for once but it's very cold
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[21:03] <x-f> same here, but the Moon is very bright
[21:03] <fsphil> yea
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[22:31] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[22:31] <MLow-werk> o/
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[22:32] <fsphil> lo
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[22:36] <MLow-werk> im looking at getting a ublox
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[22:42] <MLow-werk> seems like upu sells them but hes in the UK i think
[22:43] <fsphil> postage won't be too bad
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[22:46] <mfa298> you can get a better hx1 at the same time
[22:46] <fsphil> sneaky
[22:48] <MLow-werk> 11 squiglies for post
[22:48] <mfa298> or ntx2b and join the rtty/DominoEX takeover.
[22:48] <anerDev> hello guys
[22:49] <fsphil> THOR!!
[22:49] <mfa298> I must make my gpio code less crashy then play with thor.
[22:49] <bertrik> here's what an old RFM22 can do http://i.imgur.com/83eWcho.png </spam>
[22:50] <MLow-werk> $18 USD for shipping i think
[22:50] <mfa298> bertrik: if you can get it to do that from high altitude I think it's worth many hab points.
[22:51] <fsphil> ooh I just saw it
[22:51] <MLow-werk> ouch
[22:51] <fsphil> I thought it was just noise
[22:51] <fsphil> they're stealth invaders
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[22:51] <fsphil> you could probably draw on the waterfall with an ntx2. wouldn't be as pretty I don't think
[22:51] <MLow-werk> oh wowo just saw that
[22:51] <mfa298> it's a bit bigger than they used to be.
[22:52] <bertrik> the smallest frequency step that an RFM22B can do is 156.25 Hz
[22:53] <MLow-werk> , but it says another price under it, "Ex Tax" Excluding tax? In the US if you buy from any other state you don'
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[22:53] <MLow-werk> t pay tax
[22:54] <MLow-werk> i dont know how that works in other countries though
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[22:57] <MLow-werk> because the tax brings it up $11, and the shipping $18, where just the module is $55, maybe im just spoiled by amazon
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[22:58] <mfa298> you might need to check with Upu for that. I think tax can depend on the size of business (I think sometimes it can be more pain to be able to do the tax deductions than it's worth).
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[23:12] <M6KIK> BTW is rtty still in fashion?
[23:13] <mfa298> i suspect theres still some of it on hf
[23:13] <mfa298> plus a fair bit of sstv/psk31 and various other modes (and even some ssb and cw)
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[23:22] <MLow-werk> i'll need to do something testing with my gps before i call it junk
[23:22] <fsphil> there's still some commercial rtty services
[23:23] <fsphil> but those tend to be encrypted
[23:26] <MLow-werk> commercial rtty?
[23:26] <MLow-werk> why would one do that?
[23:28] <mfa298> presumably they've had no reason to upgrade
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[23:34] <MLow-werk> if its just a beacon, or weather or something ya i could see that
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[23:36] <fsphil> they're mostly weather services
[23:36] <fsphil> they still transmit weather chart images on HF too
[23:36] <fsphil> that's not encrypted, and fldigi can decode them
[23:37] <MLow-werk> if its like a beacon or weather station i could see that working
[23:38] <M6KIK> Just decoded half of a testcard on a websdr
[23:38] <MLow-werk> dangit
[23:38] <MLow-werk> my internetttt...
[23:38] <MLow-werk> i work in a hole
[23:38] <M6KIK> They scare
[23:38] <M6KIK> me
[23:38] <M6KIK> So much
[23:38] <MLow-werk> would it kill them to give me a cat5e cable
[23:38] <MLow-werk> stuck on wifi
[23:38] <fsphil> test cards?
[23:39] <M6KIK> Yeah
[23:39] <M6KIK> Not websdrs
[23:40] <fsphil> so a numbers station test card would be the stuff of your nightmares :)
[23:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> MLow-werk: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3163959822
[23:41] <fsphil> lies
[23:42] <fsphil> my internet is faster than my wifi so I can't really test it properly
[23:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: where :) ? I have gigabit connection :-)
[23:42] <fsphil> but my download speed is 10% of yours
[23:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> because i cannot find 10G ethernet switch without fan
[23:44] <mfa298> can't be many years until you can get a belkin 10G switch
[23:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> we have 40G sitches in our network core
[23:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> *switches
[23:46] <mfa298> The only thing that might keep the likes of belkin out of 10G switches is the need for better cabling if you want the 100m range.
[23:47] <mfa298> from memory its only around 30m for cat6 - although that might do most homes
[23:48] <zyp> I've considered running 10GbE between my storage server and workstation, but last time I checked, NICs were still a bit steep
[23:49] <mfa298> if it's a short distance (<10m) the best option looks to be direct attach (sfp+ holes, but twinax instead of fibre)
[23:49] <zyp> it's not, the storage server is noisy so it's in the other end of the house
[23:51] <mfa298> doing it with fibre can get a bit expensive especially when you find the card only allows sfp+ modules from the same vendor :(
[23:51] <zyp> yeah
[23:52] <mfa298> I've never really looked at doing it over cat6/6a/7 it's generally looked more expensive for the cases i've looked at
[23:52] <zyp> I have a bunch of 2G FC stuff that I was playing with before
[23:53] <mfa298> (was cheaper to buy the cards and run fibre to an existing rack rather than sorting a rack/power/ac in a new location
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[23:54] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: from where did you do this test?
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[23:55] <mfa298> for my home use Gig is good enough, I think I probably saturate the disks first anyway (only 4x sata)
[23:55] <VK4HIA> Darkside are you around mark?
[23:56] <MLow-werk> cant seem to keep a connection to my vps from here
[23:56] <zyp> my storage server pushes around 800 MB/s locally, so GbE is quite the bottleneck here ;)
[23:56] <MLow-werk> or maybe my vps is crapping out
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[23:58] <MLow-werk> might be a good idea to get a better one
[23:58] <MLow-werk> if thats the case
[00:00] --- Sat Dec 14 2013