highaltitude.log.20131210

[00:03] <wd8mnv> yes... you can go to bare metal if you wish
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[03:49] <arko> if anyone is interested, new curiosity rover papers here: http://www.caltech.edu/content/new-curiosity-papers-published
[03:49] <arko> radiation papers are cool
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[04:57] <heathkid> ?
[05:22] <dove3_henry> arko: neat, thanks
[05:30] <arko> dove3_henry: have any recommendations for cubesat dev kits?
[05:37] <dove3_henry> arko: don't use them
[05:37] <arko> hah
[05:37] <arko> i was thinking of laying out my own board
[05:37] <dove3_henry> yeah, that's the way to go
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[05:37] <arko> cool
[05:37] <dove3_henry> the cubesat dev kits overcomplicate everything
[05:38] <arko> and stupid expensive for what they are
[05:38] <dove3_henry> exactly
[05:38] <arko> are most of them based on the msp430?
[05:38] <dove3_henry> I believe so
[05:38] <dove3_henry> which probably isn't a bad microcontroller to use, I guess
[05:39] <dove3_henry> the TI CC430 might be a reasonable choice, built-in radio
[05:39] <dove3_henry> same radio peripheral core as we have used with great success
[05:39] <arko> yeah, was looking for something industry or milspec -55C to 125C
[05:39] <dove3_henry> pfff
[05:40] <dove3_henry> cubesats are radiatively coupled to the earth's surface temperature
[05:40] <arko> thanks ground IR
[05:40] <arko> figured as much
[05:40] <arko> havent messed with any thermal models to know the expected operating conditions
[05:41] <dove3_henry> the only modeling you really need to pay attention to is the power budget
[05:41] <dove3_henry> make sure it's positive in the default state
[05:42] <dove3_henry> that has killed a lot of cubesats
[05:42] <arko> wow really?
[05:42] <arko> man
[05:43] <arko> seems a bit obvious
[05:43] <arko> i'd think they would have some sort of failure mode that throws it into safe mode if power issue occur
[05:43] <dove3_henry> you'd think, yes.
[05:43] <arko> :P
[05:44] <dove3_henry> really, safe mode should just be 'default mode' and all changes away from default mode should return to it after a deterministic amount of time
[05:44] <dove3_henry> minimize logic on the sat
[05:44] <dove3_henry> brb, pass
[05:45] <arko> oh wow ISS over head
[05:45] <dove3_henry> aw man
[05:45] <dove3_henry> I haven't seen ISS for ages since moving to these southern latitudes
[05:45] <dove3_henry> and now I can't go look at it because I have to ssh into a satellite
[05:45] <dove3_henry> it's a tough life
[05:45] <arko> oh i thought you were in SF
[05:46] <dove3_henry> I am
[05:46] <dove3_henry> we got ISS passes all the time in the UK, 52 degrees
[05:46] <arko> ohhhh
[05:46] <arko> damn, lucky, i didnt realize that
[05:46] <arko> no wonder jcoxon seems like he has a pass every other day
[06:02] <dove3_henry> yeah I would often just see them without even looking for them
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[06:08] <arko> ha
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[08:08] <fsphil> ah, I didn't realise the ISS passed over northern latitudes more
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[08:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Urrr, I can't see how it can, it covers equal amounts N/S of the equator surely
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[08:15] <fsphil> its orbit rotates, or the earth rotates below it. the equator has moved the furtherest each orbit
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[08:22] <DL7AD> morning
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[08:40] <DL1SGP> Good morning *
[08:41] <x-f> that's cheating :)
[08:41] <x-f> good morning
[08:43] <fsphil> good * *
[08:44] <jphoglund> * morning
[08:44] <fsphil> this can only end one wa
[08:44] <fsphil> y
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[08:57] <DL1SGP> heh
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[10:51] <thomas> Hi all
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[10:51] Nick change: thomas -> Guest20221
[10:52] <Guest20221> super :)
[10:52] <Guest20221> I have a question to predictor
[10:54] <mfa298> ask away, and someone will answer if they can
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[10:56] <eroomde> so someone from RS is coming to visit us at work soon!
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[10:57] <eroomde> after I loudly complained about how awful their website is
[10:57] <eroomde> i have been collecting evidence
[10:57] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r4xiip1cs4xpm0p/rsareshit.png
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[10:59] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[10:59] <mfa298> are you going to have a set of CPC catalogues on the shelf in their eyeline.
[11:00] <Guest20221> what format a command to generate a predictor of ID?
[11:00] <Guest20221> I need to format http GET or POST.
[11:01] <Guest20221> the best a direct link
[11:02] <mfa298> Guest20221: if you're talking about habhub.org/predict the sourcecode is available online.
[11:02] <mfa298> if you want to send data to it and get a prediction out I'm not sure it's as easy as sending it a GET request and getting a reply.
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[11:25] <Darkside> craag: ping
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[11:57] <SP9UOB> evening all
[11:57] <SP9UOB> oops
[11:57] <SP9UOB> afternoon
[11:57] <SP9UOB> :-)
[11:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Morning here ;-)
[11:57] <mfa298> morning (just)
[12:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Duh, wondered why I hadn't heard any SOndes last couple of days ....
[12:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> switched Dongles and HABAMP around .... doesn't cover 400-410MHz
[12:05] <SP9UOB> im planning to launch today 144.010 MHZ + APRS pico
[12:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure I'll hear that even with Beams and Habamp on the right dongle from here!
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[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thinking about it I won't hear it with the Habamp on that dongle either ! Seeing as its 144.01!
[12:16] <SP9UOB> Geoff-G8DHE: just wait, about 20 dec i will launch 21 MHz :-)
[12:16] <fsphil> oooh
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> No chance no HF aerials in the shack! I must get round to moving the long wire up to the shack!
[12:16] <fsphil> hope conditions are as good as it was when we tested
[12:16] <Guest20221> mfa298: Thank you for the info. I see the source code.
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[12:19] <eroomde> in anticiptation of the RS man coming to visit tomorrow, I've written him a few lines of python to demonstrate that the following thing is JUST NOT DIFFICULT
[12:19] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ec348cygbbilxx/Screenshot%20from%202013-12-10%2012%3A16%3A38.png
[12:19] <eroomde> this is a screencap from RS https://www.dropbox.com/s/r4xiip1cs4xpm0p/rsareshit.png
[12:20] <fsphil> I suspect in a years time, it will be exactly the same
[12:20] <mfa298> Guest20221: I was meaning all the backend source code is available on github which you might not have found yet. (although I forget exactly where it is). Although it might help if you described what you're trying to achieve.
[12:20] <nats`> eroomde that's not the worst
[12:20] <nats`> many resistor are not quoted correctly
[12:20] <nats`> m in place of M
[12:20] <nats`> always a pleasure to blow a card because your shunt is in mega ohm
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: :)
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I had a nice script for tesco, which sorted their site by price/kilo.
[12:21] <eroomde> nats`: yes, i did wonder how you parse that
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Alas - they've broken the unit specifiers now.
[12:21] <eroomde> you have no option but to assume they mean milli and shoot the person who entered it wrong
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> - most expensive thing they sell by weight was saffron.
[12:21] <eroomde> lol
[12:22] <eroomde> i can beleive that
[12:23] <nats`> eroomde I thought about that but we reported the problem and tell them we destroyed 2 5k dollar proto and they gave us a rebate on next order
[12:23] <nats`> way under the price/time of the proto but still a generous move
[12:23] <eroomde> yes
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[12:23] <eroomde> or you just use farnell
[12:24] <eroomde> which is what I shall tell him
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: you have an actual rep?
[12:24] <eroomde> it literally is shit enough to be the 100% deciding factor in whether or not to use RS or Farnell, 99% of the time
[12:24] <eroomde> SpeedEvil:
[12:24] <eroomde> yes
[12:24] <eroomde> he's coming to visit tomorrow after he heard me complaining about them
[12:25] <nats`> eroomde i dropped RS and farnell for mouser
[12:25] <nats`> in general better price
[12:25] <nats`> if you can wait one day more it's a better choice I think
[12:25] <nats`> + the catalog is larger than the two other
[12:25] <Laurenceb> mouser search is pretty epic
[12:25] <nats`> Laurenceb yep totally crap :D
[12:25] <nats`> I do like for msdn google part+mouser
[12:25] <nats`> :D
[12:25] <Laurenceb> better than farnell and digikey
[12:26] <fsphil> digikey is pretty awful
[12:26] <nats`> and for international outside us it's a pain
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[12:26] <nats`> random vat power
[12:26] <fsphil> it's like a website from 1992
[12:28] <nats`> I wonder why nobody have done a CSS for firefox on digikey :D
[12:28] <nats`> I know some guys did it for farnell
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Also some parameters are entirely missing.
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Optocouplers, for example.
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> There is no parameter for 'speed'
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> So you can't find the 17MHz ones, from the 10khz
[12:29] Action: SpeedEvil is making a very silly thing.
[12:29] <fsphil> very silly buy electrically safe thing?
[12:29] <fsphil> but*
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[12:29] <eroomde> nats`: farnell is free next day delivery up to 8pm
[12:29] <eroomde> mouser aren't
[12:29] <eroomde> the end
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Voltage+ current shunt across a FET, 2GHz multiplier, RCRCRC thermal model connected to a thermocouple for case temp, which crowbars off gate drive.
[12:30] <nats`> yep but I find their catalog totally crap now
[12:30] <gonzo__> Do farnell have a min order value for free delivery?
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> The idea is to hopefully be able to connect a FET across 400V, and be able to turn it on without it going bang.
[12:31] <nats`> SpeedEvil please film that :)
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> I have a large bag of sacrificial BUZ80s.
[12:31] <nats`> put one or two virgin in the bag :)
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[12:31] <SpeedEvil> It's part of my project to learn SMPS properly by making a welder.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Welder/slow high power arbitrary waveform generator.
[12:32] <nats`> that's a big project !
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> Step 1 - 3kW PFC.
[12:33] <nats`> you'll use one of those huge transformer for the crurrent ?
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> Step 2 - forward converter (probably) from 400V to 50V/300A max.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Step 3 - control logic.
[12:35] <gonzo__> we used to have a valve based amp, about the same power, for testing current transformers
[12:36] <gonzo__> though it was only sine wave, having a huge (really hige) audio output transformer
[12:36] <gonzo__> huge
[12:36] <gonzo__> when it died, two blokes could just about drag the Hv rransformer about on wooden blocks.
[12:37] <gonzo__> yours will prob bne a bit more compact!
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> The 'AWG' is basically as for various modes - you need to be able to have various negative and positive resistances and inductances effectively in series with the output.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> This will sort-of-be faked in 'software'.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> and various waveforms with AC/DC balance and pulsing and ...
[12:38] <gonzo__> AWG? Audio welding gear?
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> It seems to be simpler to have the output stage acually be flexible enough.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> Arbitrary waveform generator.
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[12:38] <gonzo__> mine sounds more fun
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> As a plus - with extra filtering, I think I can pull off a +-300A 50V fully programmable PSU cheaply.
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> For little more than the cost of a purchased decent 5A/30V one.
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[12:53] <craag> Darkside: pong
[12:54] <Darkside> craag: i awoke th esleeping comms engineers with my email :P
[12:54] <Darkside> lots of discussions about various filter setups :P
[12:55] <craag> oh lol
[12:55] <Darkside> i'm trying to talk them down to something that wont require its own rack
[12:55] <Darkside> sidenote: yes, we have spare cavities
[12:55] <Darkside> >_>
[12:56] <Darkside> there was a valid point made though, that the rpeater should already have a filter setup designed to filter out the repeaters transmitter
[12:56] <Darkside> so you may be able to tap into that somehow
[12:57] <craag> Yes that was discussed, but I think the filter on there is too wide, and would block out a lot of what we want to listen to as well.
[12:57] <Darkside> mm ok
[12:57] <Darkside> well i've asked what a single notch filter cavity would do
[12:58] <Darkside> hopefully i'll get an answer on that soon :P
[12:58] <craag> Well I talked to Noel and he's keen to see what the habamp does for us on the intermodulation and go from there. He has on/off control on GB3ET anyway, so can remove the issue on demand ;)
[12:59] <Darkside> heh
[12:59] <craag> He does ask if you have any pics of the filters?
[13:00] <Darkside> heh, not yet
[13:00] <gonzo__> having a cavity that is wide enough to get all the hab band through, andstill stop a TX about a meg away, will be interesting
[13:00] <Darkside> well its just a notch
[13:00] <Darkside> not a bandpass
[13:00] <gonzo__> though, have a look at the varinotch designs
[13:00] <craag> gonzo__: We'd just stop-notch the repeater.
[13:00] <Darkside> so the idea is to put a notch over the repeater TX
[13:00] <Darkside> and use the SAW to handle the rest
[13:00] <gonzo__> they can be tuned wuith a notch and a peak on one cavity
[13:00] <craag> mm
[13:01] <Darkside> anyway, we apparently have lots and lots of old commercial UHF filters
[13:01] <gonzo__> common mod for AR repeaters, where you want that sort of response#
[13:01] <Darkside> which can all be retuned easily enough
[13:02] <Darkside> anyway, i've got them all thinking now
[13:02] <craag> Darkside: Ok thanks a lot for looking into it. We'll take it in stages. There's a bit of relocation going on and the sdr might end up about 100m up the hill from the repeater anyway.
[13:02] <Darkside> heh
[13:02] <Darkside> that would be preferable
[13:02] <Darkside> though even 100m away a notch would be useful
[13:02] <craag> It's still going to be strong enough to kick through the frontend on the rtlsdr though.
[13:02] <Darkside> yep
[13:03] <Darkside> so ill still look into getting a notch filter
[13:03] <Darkside> im gussing it'll be a singl cavity thing
[13:03] <craag> That would be great :) Thanks a lot! Good to see a healthy amount of aussie visitors on the google analytics!
[13:03] <Darkside> haha
[13:04] <Darkside> well i linked the websdr to the groups list
[13:06] <craag> It's going to be a lot of work in many areas to the point where it works /well/ but we've been very happy with the feedback so far.
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[14:00] <eroomde> "And back in Germany you can probably walk into an Aldi store and get a Rheinmetall transfunktionierter cyberblaster bollocks Kanone on discount."
[14:01] <eroomde> from a post comparing Aldi in different countries
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[14:34] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
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[15:28] <HA7018SWL> Hi!
[15:28] <HA7018SWL> Does someone know any news from SP9UOB's this afternoon "launch"?
[15:30] <mfa298> 12:05 < SP9UOB> im planning to launch today 144.010 MHZ + APRS pico
[15:30] <mfa298> HA7018SWL: ^^^
[15:30] <mfa298> I don't think he's said any more about it here recently
[15:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is more on the calendar
[15:31] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ -> Steve_G0TDJ_AFK
[15:31] <HA7018SWL> Thank You!
[15:31] <HA7018SWL> mfa298:
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[15:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> DESCRIPTION:Project: PICO\nGroup: Tom\nLocation: Gliwice\, Poland (lat:
[15:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> 50.28433 lon: 18.65582 alt: 200M)\n\nPayloads:\nSP9UOB\n144.01MHz USB RTTY
[15:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> 50 baud 240Hz shift ASCII-7 no parity 1.5 stop bits\n
[15:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> LOCATION:Gliwice\, Poland (lat: 50.28433 lon: 18.65582 alt: 200M)
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AL-N-AL-solar-water/332872692.html Hmm
[15:43] Action: SpeedEvil must resist!
[15:45] <Laurenceb> wow 500
[15:45] <Laurenceb> thats <$2 each
[15:45] <Laurenceb> nuts
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[15:46] <HA7018SWL> Geoff-G8DHE: Where is this info from?
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> For 53m^2 or so of area.
[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> The iCal link here http://habitat.habhub.org/
[15:47] <Laurenceb> 250C O_o
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly - they don't have the manifold, or heat pipes.
[15:47] <wd8mnv> but... free shipping
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[15:48] <SpeedEvil> I am unsure that's not an error.
[15:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Stick it on the desktop if you use Win7 etc http://wlcalendargadget.codeplex.com/
[15:48] <Laurenceb> are they filled with refridgerant?
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: no - vacuum.
[15:48] <Laurenceb> what are the copper things?
[15:48] <Laurenceb> i mean up the inside
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: htose are not present.
[15:48] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:49] <Laurenceb> ok, not such a maddly low price then i guess
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: However - normally there is a thick (}o{) sort of shape of aluminium foil on the inside with the 'o' as a heatpipe.
[15:49] <Laurenceb> i see
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> basically just 6mm or so tube, filled with acetone or something under a low pressure.
[15:50] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:50] <Laurenceb> that makes sense
[15:50] <HA7018SWL> Wow, Thanks
[15:50] <Laurenceb> so it is all vapour at <100C ?
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> No complex inner structure - it relies on gravity to make the 'refrigerabt' flow back down
[15:50] <Laurenceb> i see
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> It starts to heat well below boiling.
[15:50] <Laurenceb> but wont boil your water?
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> It works up to 200C or so
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> whatever the critical temperature is
[15:51] <Laurenceb> wtf
[15:51] <Laurenceb> how do you stop it turning into a steam generator in summer?
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Continual waterflow.
[15:51] <Laurenceb> eeek
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> Some are designed with thermal dumps, others have loops which are designed to form a steam bubble.
[15:52] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:52] <Laurenceb> cant you get tubes with ~90C stagnation temperature?
[15:52] <Laurenceb> i thought that was the way to solve the problem?
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> You could pick the refrigerant appropriately, I guess.
[15:52] <Laurenceb> this sounds rather annoying to get up and running :-/
[15:52] <x-f> HA7018SWL, SP9UOB estimates launch on about 17-18 UTC
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[15:53] <Laurenceb> i wonder about running it at ~200C with a stirling engine or maybe even steam
[15:53] <HA7018SWL> x-f: TY!
[15:53] <Laurenceb> old school steam piston engines run at 200C steam
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Propylene will only heat to 197F, for example.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.refrigerantgases.co.uk/shop/ http://www.bes.co.uk/index.asp - fun plumbing bits.
[15:56] <Laurenceb> nice
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bes.co.uk/products/085a.asp - solenoid valves are surprisingly inexpensive
[15:56] <Laurenceb> useful for rockets too
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> they're designed for good flow.
[15:57] <Laurenceb> its all very reasonable prices
[15:57] Action: SpeedEvil is at the moment doing the 'praying he's ordered the right bits' game.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> I'm installing my own heatpump.
[15:57] <Laurenceb> cool
[15:57] <Laurenceb> custom made?
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> Or more accurately, warm.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> No.
[15:57] <Laurenceb> picking compatible fitting is complex
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> www.orionairsales.co.uk/mitsubishi-heavy-industries-air-conditioning-srk20zjx-s-28-kw--9000-btu-hyper-inverter-heat-pump-220-p.asp
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Price is a bit Eeek.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> But - that works out at _considerably_ cheaper than gas.
[15:58] <Laurenceb> ah, you need the fittings to rig it up?
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> Well - in principle, I can just buy a hose kit for 45 quid, and fake something with a spanner and scale for a torque wrench - and not bother purging (it says you can get away with it for short runs)
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[16:00] <Laurenceb> i see
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> However, I want to in principle be able to re-site it. And for a total of about 150 quids worth of stuff, I get a vacuum pump, the hoses, and enough stuff to move it around at will.
[16:00] <Laurenceb> i dont understand what kind of fittings those solenoid valves are for?
[16:00] <Laurenceb> cool
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[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Flare fittings are simple. You take a pipe. You take a flare tool, you apply one to the other, and get a 45 degree flare on the end. You put a flare nut on the end, and you torque it to the correct torque. Job done.
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Solder is the obvious.
[16:01] <Laurenceb> ah
[16:02] <Laurenceb> yeah ive come across flare fittings on gas cookers
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> Refrigeration is a bit more critical - you actually care about leakage when you're at 500PSI
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> Not 0.05 or whatever gas runs at
[16:05] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had transport.
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151003110808?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 would be fun to play with on a VFD
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[16:40] <Willdude123> Intermediate license book arrived
[16:41] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=08K_aEajzNA
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[16:45] <SpeedEvil> Fun
[16:46] <gonzo__> read it well, for at least 5 mins!
[16:47] <Laurenceb> http://store.3drobotics.com/products/3dr-pixhawk
[16:47] <Laurenceb> thats one expensive stm32f4 breakout
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> wow
[16:47] <gonzo__> remember the licence conditions. And they will always ask a safety and plug wiring question
[16:47] <Laurenceb> i guess it has a nice case
[16:48] <Laurenceb> $400 for a complete system
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.86duino.com/?p=95 is a pretty awesome case.
[16:48] <Laurenceb> https://raw.github.com/wiki/lilvinz/OpenPilot/P1020903.JPG
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[16:54] <Laurenceb> https://pixhawk.ethz.ch/px4/modules/pixhawk
[16:55] <Laurenceb> nice choice of pitot hardware
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[17:07] <Willdude123> Sorry, internet mucked up again
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[17:14] <Willdude123> OK
[17:14] <Willdude123> I now have a stable connection.
[17:14] <ve6ts_> man do i hate cell phone companies
[17:14] Nick change: ve6ts_ -> ve6ts
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[17:36] <Willdude123> Urgh, for some reason irssi wants to reconnect to awfulnet every time I attach to screen
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[17:52] <Willdude123> /save
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[18:16] <Willdude123> Just found intermediate license only allows gateway operation up to half a watt
[18:16] <Willdude123> Seeing if I could get our local repeater on that might be interesting.
[18:17] <craag> Willdude123: Which repeater is that?
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[18:18] <Willdude123> GB3NE
[18:19] <mfa298> Willdude123: repeater may not be equal to gateway
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[18:20] <craag> btw Willdude123 do you have a 70cm handheld or similar?
[18:21] <Willdude123> Nope
[18:22] <Willdude123> mfa298: I mean accessing our repeater on 500mw
[18:22] <Willdude123> Through a gateway to my radio
[18:24] <craag> Ah I've worked through GB3NE on my way to Bristol before I think
[18:24] <craag> 2m repeater right?
[18:24] <mfa298> using a radio to access the local repeater you can use your permitted power (so 10W on foundation)
[18:24] <mfa298> im not sure where gateway comes into it
[18:25] <craag> gateway operation is when you are remotely controlling a radio over the internet.
[18:25] <Willdude123> I know
[18:26] <Willdude123> The station is next door
[18:26] <Willdude123> or will be
[18:26] <Willdude123> I want to be able to operate it from my bedroom
[18:26] <craag> I think it doesn't count as operating it 'remotely' if it's on the same premises.
[18:26] <Willdude123> It's not]
[18:26] <craag> oh, next door house?
[18:26] <Willdude123> My grandadd's house is legally seperate
[18:26] <craag> I see..
[18:27] <mfa298> that means the link between the two radios is 500mW and for Foundation and Intermediate I think that link needs to be radio rather than network/internet
[18:27] <craag> mfa298: Ah you're right
[18:27] <craag> Only Advanced can do any remote control
[18:28] <mfa298> although akwardly 10(6) says it can only be done using wireless communication links
[18:28] <Willdude123> Ah
[18:29] <Willdude123> So that means the remote control link for the station?
[18:29] <mfa298> although it does say only bands in the amateur band allocations so that would discount wifi
[18:29] <Willdude123> craag: Will email ofcom
[18:29] <Willdude123> I was under the impression that you had do be intermediate to operate a gateway
[18:29] <mfa298> Willdude123: read the terms 10(6) in particular, it's fairly clear
[18:30] <Willdude123> And full to make one
[18:30] <Willdude123> Ah
[18:30] <Willdude123> So only full licensees can remote operate over the internet?
[18:31] <mfa298> if you're talking about remotely operating a radio (so operating a radio you're not sat in front of) then that's all covered by section 10.
[18:32] <mfa298> gateway can mean something different which isn't part of the main license (things like a packet BBS)
[18:32] <Willdude123> As in like an echolink gateway
[18:33] <mfa298> potentially
[18:33] <Willdude123> OK. I sort of get this
[18:34] <Willdude123> So you are not allowed to operate any radio remotely via the internet at intermediate level?
[18:34] <mfa298> so if I had my radio connected via echolink I could probably (as a Full licensee) use it for my own use. But on the standard license I can't let anyone else use it (clause 10(3))
[18:35] <mfa298> but I could potentially get a Notice of Variation (NoV) which does allow such use (assuming such a NoV is available)
[18:38] <mfa298> only if it's a wireless link on one of the amateur bands above 30MHz (which can't relly be part of the internet as you can't pass 3rd party traffic over it)
[18:39] <mfa298> best thing is to read through the license terms several times - there's a lot of information in there.
[18:40] <Willdude123> I don't quite understand it. Could I operate someone elses' echolink station?
[18:42] <mfa298> I suspect not as you won't be operating it over a wireless link in one of the allowed amateur bands.
[18:42] <mfa298> although that case might not be so clear
[18:43] <mfa298> I'm not sure how many stations there are to operate remotely on echolink. I think most of it's use is like skype.
[18:44] <Willdude123> Hmm.
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[18:46] <Willdude123>
[18:46] <mfa298> looking at the current logins list on the site the only UK stuff on there (G/M stations) are repeaters
[18:47] <HA6NN> I am looking for SP9UOB. Does anyone know which nick belogs to him?
[18:48] <HA6NN> eee belongs...
[18:48] <mfa298> HA6NN: when he's on he normally uses his callsign
[18:50] <x-f> i think he will launch any time soon, his last message on Polish forum thread is "ok, i'm leaving" 15 minutes ago
[18:59] <fsphil> http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA17744.jpg
[18:59] <fsphil> Juno's radio recording during the Earth flyby
[19:02] <fsphil> up until it went into safe mode anyway
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[19:14] <eroomde> before reading this, you should know that this is not satire, you're not reading the onion
[19:14] <eroomde> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/im-experiencing-austerity-as-well-says-princess-michael-of-kent-8993437.html
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[19:20] Action: SpeedEvil lawls.
[19:20] <Willdude123> I figured I might just be able to afford an Ft587 by july
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[19:23] <Maxell> fsphil: moving image wins http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/archive/PIA17744.mov
[19:23] <HA6NN> mfa298: Hello, Thanks a lot!
[19:25] <Maxell> fsphil: some more movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yqHy_MpNiQ
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[19:35] <x-f> SP9UOB is up
[19:35] <fsphil> 21mhz flight?
[19:36] <x-f> APRS and 2m
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[19:44] <HA6NN> SP9UOB: Are you around?
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[19:46] <HA6NN> To anyone who is to listen to SP9UOB: As you know the first 30-40 kHz of the 2 m CW band is full of birdies! I have one on 144010 which is S7 or so!
[19:47] <Maxell> HA6NN: oh, so not only my rtl-sdr dongle?
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[19:48] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[19:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: like You said... ;-)
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[19:50] <x-f> good evening, devil
[19:51] <LeoBodnar_> told you so
[19:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-) bit 3 miliwatts at 2m does the job :-)
[19:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> but
[19:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> and 100mW for APRS
[19:54] <HA6NN> Maxell: Every radio receives those birdies and all 2 m CW operator knows there are no usable frequencies under 144040 Khz. or so!
[19:56] <HA6NN> I use an FT-847 which is vewry sensitive on 2 m and exceptionally sensitive on 435 MHz i.e. 0.09 uV.
[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: my pico is heading south :-)
[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: could You turn on live prediction for sp9uob?
[20:00] <Maxell> HA6NN: I wonder what makes those birdies. If all recievers have this problem it must be some kind harmonic of everyday household electroncis
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[20:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: hi :-)
[20:07] <DL7AD> good evening SP9UOB-Tom :)
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[20:07] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: whats going on here?
[20:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: going to Africa with 2m RTTY and APRS :-)
[20:08] <DL7AD> you or your balloon?
[20:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: my pico
[20:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: this one: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/small_picov4-1-front.jpg
[20:11] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: i'll do an announcement when its gonna float
[20:11] <Upu> hello
[20:11] <DL7AD> evening Upu
[20:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: i hope it will float :-)
[20:13] <Upu> cleared tracker bar SP9UOB
[20:13] <HA6NN> Maxell: I have two routers in my room and all kinds of electronics, but my rotatable yagi on the top of this ten stroried building is able to pick up a lot of birdies from the neighboring buildings. Please visit http://www.starjan.hu/bato/
[20:13] <Upu> did you announce this one ?
[20:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: no i did not, because i dont know it will gonna float
[20:14] <Upu> ok
[20:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: 144.010 MHz USB + APRS SP9UOB-11
[20:14] <Upu> sorted
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[20:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: thanks
[20:16] <HA6NN> SP9UOB: 144010 is so disturbed, we will not be able to decode -or even hear the signals of you balloon. Haven't you had a better idea to choose a usable frequency as all the 2 m CW operators do when making QSOs?
[20:16] <HA6NN> eee your...
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[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: 144.000 - 144.025 is recommended for near space stations, so i'll take some from this range
[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> but next time i have to change.
[20:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: anyway APRS is also working: http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FSP9UOB-11&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[20:22] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB in the air
[20:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> wtf
[20:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> sri
[20:23] <Upu> :)
[20:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: gps glitches
[20:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: no, didn't notice that my irrsi was in scrollback... i didn't one hour of talk..
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[20:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: happy floating!
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[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: thanks :-)
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[20:45] <DL7AD> evening LeoBodnar :)
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> evening Sven
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[21:05] <Upu> evening Lunar
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[21:21] Nick change: napos_ -> napos
[21:23] Nick change: SP9UOB-Tom -> verox
[21:23] <arko> Juno morse code https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nW03lcrw_8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[21:24] <Maxell> arko: also seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yqHy_MpNiQ ?
[21:24] <HA6NN> Verox: May I know the RTTY shift of your TX on 144010 kHz?
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[21:25] <verox> HA6NN: 240 Hz
[21:25] Nick change: verox -> SP9UOB
[21:25] <HA6NN> RRRRRRRRRRR Tnx!
[21:25] Nick change: SP9UOB -> verox
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[21:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: no prob
[21:29] <arko> Maxell lol
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[22:00] <x-f> DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: No configuration doc for '50SAT' found
[22:01] <x-f> but.. but..
[22:03] <craag> lol
[22:03] <craag> create one then :P
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[22:05] <x-f> habitat won't be upset about sentences without the counter and time?
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[22:06] <craag> Erm tbh habitat might work I think. Spacenearus will die horribly though.
[22:06] <craag> Whats the sentence format?
[22:07] <x-f> $$50SAT,128,,264,,,49,3,,21,146,84,,82,102,3703,*74
[22:08] <x-f> snus might ignore a sentence without position
[22:08] <craag> just a lot of current values?
[22:08] <craag> yes it would
[22:08] <x-f> yep
[22:10] <craag> It would work, you couldn't do much with it after that though!
[22:11] <craag> Other than viewing it on your graphs page of course! :)
[22:14] <x-f> for science! :)
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[22:16] <craag> Shame it doesn't have position, would be cool to see that on spacenearus :P
[22:17] <HA6NN> SP9UOB: I can hear it since about 22:00 UT Successful decodes will be hopefully sent.
[22:17] <x-f> position can be calculated from TLE, if only it was sending down the time
[22:17] <HA6NN> I mean on 144010 kHz RTTY...
[22:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: Thanks :-) thats only 3 miliwatts output :-)
[22:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> and 100 mW in APRS
[22:19] <x-f> why only 3 mW?
[22:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: to check if its enough :-)
[22:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> on 2m band :-)
[22:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> RTTY act only as a backup for APRS
[22:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> which is in beta stage now :-)
[22:20] <x-f> i see
[22:21] <x-f> you could have varied the power for RTTY with time to see how much low can you go
[22:21] <x-f> like, 0-10 minutes - 10 mW, 10-20 minutes - 5 mW
[22:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: good idea :-)
[22:22] <x-f> see when listeners drop out :)
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[22:30] <LeoBodnar> 100mW APRS? I'd rather try 3mW APRS
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[22:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: its a first test :-) FM with 12.5 kHz needs more power than RTTY with 250 Hz bandwidth
[22:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> Mmm, aprs.fi have 186 km/h, habhub 100 km/h....
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/tridge/SiK
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> ^nice
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> I had 500km APRS links with 15mW
[22:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: Wow, respect :-)
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> From Africa to Spain
[22:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: vertical dipole ?
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[22:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> same as mine
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> All the world seems OK with that apart from Italy
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> There you need 5 sec repeat rate and 1kW
[22:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
[22:37] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: what's the problem?
[22:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> they are using veeeery long premables - 2 seconds or so
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[22:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> i was in Italy severral times
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[22:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> according to x-f graphs it has reached floating altitude
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[22:40] <LeoBodnar> http://aprs.fi/info/a/IR1BO
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> WIDE7-7,TRACE7-7
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> like a boss
[22:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> well...
[22:43] <bertrik> nice to see so many receivers in poland and slovakia
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[22:50] <LeoBodnar> Tom, it looks like APRS positions have fewer jumps than RTTY
[22:50] <LeoBodnar> How often do you put GPS to sleep?
[22:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: at start of RTTY frame
[22:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> and im turning it on after switching TX off
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> every 30 seconds?
[22:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> to archeive lower average current
[22:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes
[22:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: You are on :-)
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> And from time to time you are sending APRS without shutting down the GPS?
[22:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> APRS is send before every 5th rtty frame
[22:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> without powering GPS down
[22:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> GPS is pooled via ubx message over i2c
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> maybe this is why it is more stable as it has more time to recover from problems
[22:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> right
[22:56] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I do so as well but the problem is the same even on UART (KT5TK)
[22:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> GPS sometime hangs somewhat... after 10 minutes of no fix im doing gps coldstart to recover
[22:56] <LeoBodnar> *without polling
[22:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> 2 meter band has much lower free-space attenuation than 70cm MUCH
[22:58] <LeoBodnar> but higher noise floor probably and larger Fresnel zone
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[22:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> hmmm, here on 70 cm we have lots of industrial interferences
[23:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> on ism segment there is even more - that is a reason - i moved to 437 MHz :-)
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> i suspect power rail noise if ublox is hanging
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> in my experience nosie will hang it sometimes
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[23:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> Laurenceb: i have to add more capacitors, after mosfet switch
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> what is there there at the moment?
[23:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> 1uF and 100nF
[23:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> in parallel
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> i see
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> 100pF
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> btw do you want to know something special?
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[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> turned 24 on the 9th
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> I'd rather 1000-100pF
[23:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> and Vbatt is connected directly to main power bus - which has decenr decoupling
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> congratulations Lunar_Lander!
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[23:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i'll try
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> do you have predictions for the next birthday date?
[23:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: my brother turned 37 on the 9th :-)
[23:05] <LeoBodnar> I did not like powering via MOSFET as large capacitance after it creates massive dip on the system power bus
[23:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: if You are talking about birthday :)
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> awesome, congrats to him!
[23:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> so: happy birthday :-)
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> and happy birthday to your brother
[23:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: thank You :-)
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> you are welcome
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> 33 hours awake now
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Connect the FET gate to a 100K resistor or so.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Soft on and off
[23:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: amphetamine ;) ?
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> coffee xD
[23:07] <LeoBodnar> GPS might not like slow turn on
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: 'slow' in terms of maybe 100ms or so.
[23:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> Ublox should have ENABLE pin - thats all
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> It has a RESET
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> but it does not disable it
[23:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> but reset doesnt disable
[23:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> :D
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB-Tom, human's Lithium XD
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> It's a massive bodge of a GPS but the best we have
[23:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> the current drawn by module is even higher
[23:09] Nick change: SP9UOB-Tom -> verox
[23:09] <verox> argh autonick
[23:09] Nick change: verox -> SP9UOB
[23:09] Nick change: SP9UOB -> verox
[23:09] Nick change: verox -> SP9UOB
[23:09] Nick change: SP9UOB -> verox
[23:09] NICK flood from @matrix.verox.pl! Banning.
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[23:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> time to go to bed
[23:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> night!
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[00:00] --- Wed Dec 11 2013