highaltitude.log.20131202

[00:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Night all cu tomorrow no doubt ;-)
[00:00] <Laurenceb__> i suspect Upu will be ok with ebay trackers?
[00:00] <Laurenceb__> is he around?
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[00:10] <mfa298> I think he did a sensible thing of going to bed an hour ago
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[00:13] <LeoBodnar> good night chaps
[00:15] <qyx_> gn
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[01:05] <SP3OSJ> http://satelit.uniza.sk:8901/ 144692.60MHz
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[02:42] <wd8mnv> amazon delivery drone
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[03:30] <jarod> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ the balloons in the right dont shows frequency, wouldn't that be a useful option?
[04:06] <arko> totally called this when the FAA said they will have drone airspace by 2015
[04:06] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98BIu9dpwHU
[04:07] <arko> so glad its becoming a reality
[04:16] <heathkid> hello arko
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[04:42] <heathkid> everyone fall asleep?
[04:46] <heathkid> guess so...
[04:46] <heathkid> good night everyone...
[05:09] <jarod> :P
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[05:58] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[06:11] <wd8mnv> how soon till one of those amazon delivery drones wind up on eBay?
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[07:24] <fsphil> arko: there's going to be a market for taking down drones soon then :)
[07:25] <arko> murican style
[07:25] <arko> we all get a shotgun from walmart when we get our citizenship
[07:25] <arko> so we now finally have something to shoot
[07:25] <arko> "PULL!" *clicks amazon prime air button*
[07:26] <fsphil> haha
[07:31] <arko> i must admit, shooting clay pigeons is a lot of fun
[07:32] <arko> highly recommend it
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[07:40] <wd8mnv> who's gonna be supplying the parts for these? i want in
[07:43] <arko> same here
[07:46] <wd8mnv> is 'drone tech' gonna be a job discription now?
[07:47] <wd8mnv> somebody to change props and keep them charged
[07:49] <arko> vOv
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[08:21] <DL1SGP> good morning :)
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[08:25] <fsphil> morn
[08:26] <tjanos> Morning! Artur, SP3OSJ, are you here?
[08:26] <number10> morning
[08:26] <tjanos> I am really sorry, evening I went to sleep, and didnot checked before the launch of your ballon. Morning I see, it was over the east boarder of our coaunry. I sent alert to my collegues, but it seems the SP3OSJ are flying over Romania, or over the Black sea.
[08:27] <tjanos> It would be usefuul to ask Sven trying to activate from his database the romanian and ukrainian followers
[08:27] <Maxell> tjanos: SP3OSJ was last seen [Quit: Page closed] at 01:53:11 UTC.
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[08:29] <tjanos> Maxell: how can interpret this? it went down, because the battery?
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[08:34] <x-f> it went out of range
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[08:36] <Maxell> tjanos: "Quit: Page closed" means Artur, SP3OSJ closed down the chatbox at almost 2 am UTC.
[08:36] <Maxell> I am not sure about the HAB :-)
[08:39] <DL1SGP1> :)
[08:39] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[08:40] <DL1SGP> let's hope that RN3ZF remains on a listening watch, with the persistend trend towards the east and the fact that his antenna is quite nice he should be able to receive it in (if conditions persist and it still is up)
[08:41] <tjanos> Maxell, thanks the info. I reread now the yesterday,s evening log, it seems, I understand the situation.
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[09:11] <LeoBodnar> good morning :)
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[09:32] <tjanos> Morning! are there any news about the possible recoverie of the successfull flights yesterday?
[09:32] <tjanos> I am reading the previous logs here: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs/highaltitude.log.20131202
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[09:35] <x-f> RTSHAB was recovered, that's about it
[09:35] <x-f> ah, StratoDean 3 too
[09:35] <tjanos> Thanks, it seems, its a good rate!
[09:36] <fsphil> there's no chance of Orion turning up again
[09:37] <tjanos> Orion was really a nice, impressive flight but the power the Pi and its cam has its limtations, I mean
[09:40] <fsphil> it has a very tiny lens, it's never going to be that good at night
[09:40] <tjanos> another side of the story the missing followers. Yesterday one of my collegue sent to me this link: http://www.genso.org/
[09:41] <tjanos> It isa project to built global amateur satellite follower network.
[09:41] <tjanos> But this is one of such plans, it seems, me
[09:42] <tjanos> The Pi,s cam is very small, I was surpise, to see on the pictures some starts
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> I can't see how they are going to manage rotators with number of satellites rapidly increasing
[09:43] <eroomde> you need an electronically steerable array
[09:43] <eroomde> and then you can listen to many sats at once
[09:43] <eroomde> for great good
[09:43] <tjanos> I think this plans have many questions, but a working such network of emote stations would be usefull
[09:44] <fsphil> yikes, in 1995 the Belarus airforce shot down a manned balloon killing two pilots -- despite having been notified about the flights months in advance
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> A lot of aircraft radars are getting decommissioned and sold on eBay. They use both steerable and phased array technologies. It's a shame they are out of ISM bands
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> *nosecone weather radars
[09:45] <tjanos> The question is, have they a working radar system, able to follow a pico ballon? Or have they spacial department, studiing/using the habhub infrastructure?
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> It looked like a confusion rather than malice
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> I read somewhere they were routinely terminating weather baloons straying into their airspace from the West
[09:47] <eroomde> belarus does sound amazing
[09:48] <eroomde> no one seems to have told them that it all ended in 1990
[09:48] <tjanos> Lol, its interesting., This ballons use wel-known frequencies
[09:52] <LeoBodnar> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RCA-Primus-20-WXD-Airborne-Weather-Radar-Indicator-Antenna-Receiver-Set-7464-/121208898373?pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&hash=item1c389d0345
[09:54] <tjanos> do you think, we need such a Christmas present?
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> It's not fully PA I think they use beam shaping in there
[09:55] <SpeedEvil> Find one that is a common model, and ship it to mikeselectricstuff for a video. :)
[09:55] <fsphil> haha
[09:56] <tjanos> but it would be interesting to see, how it folows a path of a balloon
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> You'd want the appropriate corner cube on the balloon
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[09:59] <tjanos> it is another story, if somebody in the super-administration, invent the idea, to need to carrie such a thing for radar visibility on every pico ballons
[10:11] <gonzo___> the met office don't fly radar reflectors
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[10:32] <x-f> jedas, we missed you yesterday!
[10:32] <jedas> oh , sorry :) was afk
[10:33] <jedas> flight over lithuania ?
[10:33] <x-f> over Kaunas
[10:33] <jedas> dammit :) i've build antenna specially for such ocasion, and was waiting for it
[10:34] <x-f> is your contact info available somewhere?
[10:34] <x-f> or have you joined the UKHAS mailing list?
[10:34] <jedas> i haven't actually, let's share skype, or something like that ? some of my contants are http://www.fpv.lt/lang/en/kontaktai-contacts/
[10:35] <x-f> cool, zeusbot has it logged now
[10:36] <x-f> i was looking at jedas.fpv.lt, but didn't look higher
[10:36] <DL1SGP> yeah if you forget about it you would not need to call NSA any more x-f, zeusbot has it all :D
[10:36] <jedas> yea, i'm sorry i haven't introduced myself earlier
[10:36] <jedas> :)
[10:38] <x-f> it's ok, we got you now!
[10:39] <jedas> few days ago i've build circular polarization antenna for those weather ballons, it would be nice to test that on HAB's too https://picasaweb.google.com/105652379121567398072/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCLPBvP6W0Y_6Iw#5951770391314300274
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[11:52] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[11:52] <Maxell> Hello
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[12:17] <jcoxon> morning all
[12:17] <mfa298> afternoon
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[12:40] <tweetBot> @daveake: Completed "HAB Flight Readiness Display" http://t.co/pyuP0TTnjn #UKHAS http://t.co/hAIvprp1fW
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[12:52] <LeoBodnar> morning James
[12:53] <daveake> morning behind-the-tiimes people
[12:54] <LeoBodnar> time is on our side
[12:54] <mfa298> daveake: looks like a good bit of hacking you had to do there for that display.
[12:54] <daveake> more than I was expecting tbh :)
[12:54] <daveake> but all good fun
[12:55] <daveake> Others have figured out the protocols for other displays and I thought this would match one of them
[12:55] <daveake> but no the protocol is new and unique :p
[12:56] <mfa298> presumably as it's a uP on the board you could re-program it to do work in a slighlty more sensible way, although that could end up being more effort.
[12:56] <daveake> yes, and someone has done that to a different model
[12:56] <daveake> For me that passes the "is it worth it?" test
[12:56] <mfa298> manufacturers seem to like coming up with weird and wacky protocols.
[12:56] <daveake> yes
[12:56] <daveake> and dire Windows s/w for it
[12:57] <daveake> OK it works, just, but really the only UI effort they made was to provide skins in various revolting colours
[12:57] <mfa298> sounds about average.
[12:57] <daveake> and you have to go hunting for the exe on the CD
[12:57] <daveake> yes
[12:58] <daveake> There's another exe too
[12:58] <daveake> but that wanted to install Chinese .NET for me
[12:58] <daveake> I declined
[12:59] <daveake> That Windows serial logger program is very good
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[13:00] <mfa298> looks like a useful bit of software.
[13:00] <daveake> Yes, might even buy it as it would be useful for other stuff I'm likely to do
[13:01] <daveake> The trial is perfectly usable - just the odd nag screen
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[13:01] <daveake> Till it stops altogether after 14 days
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[13:01] <daveake> I didn't think I'd need 14 days for this project :)
[13:02] <mfa298> No doubt the next time you want to use it will be 15 days after installing it
[13:02] <daveake> hah :)
[13:02] <daveake> That's when I use the laptop instead
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> good evening Dave
[13:04] <daveake> Yes I exist in my own personal time zone
[13:04] <daveake> Seems like it sometimes
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[13:14] <DL7AD> oh there has been SP3OSJ...
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[13:22] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: would this work below -40C ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ZbLM7vTTA
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> I have heard quants go a bit mouldy when it's too cold
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[13:26] <SpeedEvil> The voice made me think it was this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtlYi1yLTVQ
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Less swearing though.
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[13:43] <Laurenceb> does pdf store links in a none planetext format?
[13:43] <Laurenceb> i have a pdf that runs fine in evince
[13:43] <Laurenceb> but someone with adobe reader7 told me the links dont work
[13:44] <Lowerstoford> First Q, why are they still using 7?
[13:45] <Laurenceb> i'm not
[13:45] <Laurenceb> some random n00b is
[13:45] <craag> Give them a 'fixed' PDF that runs a shell exploit and installs >=9. :P
[13:45] <Laurenceb> im trying to fix their issues :-/
[13:45] <Laurenceb> haha
[13:46] <Lowerstoford> quickest solution, get them to upgrade.......
[13:46] <Laurenceb> so, can links be stored in none planetext?
[13:46] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:49] <Lowerstoford> cant find an answer to non plain text. But see this http://support.microsoft.com/kb/897755
[13:49] <Lowerstoford> may not be relevant thou
[13:53] <Laurenceb> interesting
[13:53] <Laurenceb> thanks
[13:53] <Lowerstoford> No Prob
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[14:10] <Laurenceb> aha solved it
[14:10] <Laurenceb> looks like there is a checksum on pdf files
[14:10] <Laurenceb> and i'd broken it
[14:11] <Lowerstoford> good to here its sorted
[14:11] <Lowerstoford> or even, hear
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[14:23] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/02/amazon_prime_air_announcement/
[14:23] <Laurenceb> this actually looks not utterly unfeasible
[14:23] <Laurenceb> but the props are way too dangerous for a start
[14:24] <Laurenceb> well - less utterly stupid than the pizza video
[14:33] <Steve_G0TDJ> Afternoon people
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[15:23] <DL1SGP1> Good afternoon Steve
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> Ducting the props is fairly easy
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[16:54] Nick change: DrLuke__ -> DrLuke
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[16:58] <anerDev> hi guys .. anyone ?
[16:59] <craag> Hi anerDev
[16:59] <anerDev> hi craag
[17:00] <anerDev> know you the gps coordinate like this: lon 1039.093754
[17:00] <anerDev> lat 4441.147848
[17:00] <anerDev> what format is this ? Thank you
[17:01] <craag> hmm
[17:01] <craag> ddmm.mmmm
[17:01] <craag> maybe?
[17:02] <anerDev> i don't know ..,. ://
[17:05] <mfa298> looks a bit like ddmm.mmmmm format
[17:09] <mfa298> 4441.147848N 1039.093754E would put you somewhere around Reggio Emilia in Italy if it's ddmm.mmmm format
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[17:09] <anerDev> yes. I'm there
[17:09] <anerDev> definitelly this is the ddmm.mmmm format
[17:09] <anerDev> =D
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[17:17] <LeoBodnar> I think APRS uses it
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[17:20] <tjanos> Are this coordinates pointed to the location: Regio Emilia Via Papa Giovanni XXIII ?
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[17:37] <jcoxon> hmmm snus has a weird error currently
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[17:37] <jcoxon> where the altitude bar is covering parts of the telemetry box
[17:37] <jcoxon> anyone else?
[17:38] <arko> mmm
[17:38] <arko> looks fine here
[17:38] <jcoxon> oh fixed on refresh
[17:38] <arko> heh
[17:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah I see the Transatlantic flight is on the map ..
[17:40] <jcoxon> Geoff-G8DHE, when is that planned for launch?
[17:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> vague feeling today, but its not on the iCal I'll check the list ...
[17:41] <jcoxon> it might be just testing
[17:42] <craag> Yeah I think the trackers were due to be delivered today.
[17:42] <arko> is the transatlantic flight happening?
[17:42] <craag> So probably just firing them to check for postal damage.
[17:42] <craag> *firing them up
[17:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup that's right, but I'm sure I saw a reference somewhere to being 23:00 tonight maybe on the IRC logs
[17:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah On Sunday [21:43] <Upu> a transatlantic attempt in the next day or so
[17:45] <tjanos> anerDev: are your coordinates pointed to the location: Regio Emilia Via Papa Giovanni XXIII ?
[17:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes [21:44] <Upu> its likely to launch tomorrow around 2300UTC from Rochester, NY
[17:46] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: :D
[17:46] <arko> oh sweet
[17:46] <arko> thats pretty soon
[17:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> 5 hours
[17:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> ISH
[17:46] <arko> glad its only morning
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[17:53] <Laurenceb> anyone here any good with bluetooth on linux?
[17:53] <Laurenceb> im trying to connect to an RN-42 module
[17:54] <Laurenceb> its only allowing HID connections
[17:56] <mfa298> my only experience of bluetooth on linux was linux thinking a bluetooth gps receiver was a dialup modem.
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[17:58] <Laurenceb> heh
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[18:05] <tjanos> a month ago I started to deal with the bluetooth 4.0, because the Apple,s iBeacon based on it, and seems, it would be good start for small ballon payload too.
[18:06] <Upu> possibly today for TA launch
[18:06] <tjanos> But we discussed only a lot, I was lazy to order some hw,s
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[18:08] <tjanos> for example here is an interesting approach: http://www.ioncannon.net/programming/1603/turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-an-ibeacon/
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[18:22] <craag> Upu: :)
[18:22] <craag> When's it predicted to reach europe?
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[18:36] <GDella> Hello
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[18:37] <mfa298> Hello ^H^H^H^H^H^H Oh, Good bye
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening :-)
[18:38] <mfa298> Evening Matt
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> Was SD3 a success?
[18:40] <mfa298> I believe so.
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> awesome
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> Did Mark ever tell us what SD3 was going to do with all those funky headers an all? :)
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> They do have a fantastic blog at stratodean.co.uk, must say
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[19:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FN2NXZ-11&timerange=3600&tail=3600
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[19:28] <LeoBodnar> TinyTrak3 v1.42 - I thought they use Upu's AVA?
[19:29] <arko> AVA can do APRS?
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> In my head Upu = AVA
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> Can it not?
[19:31] <arko> haha
[19:31] <arko> i have no idea
[19:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There are 4 trackers ?
[19:31] <arko> is he going to stream the launch?
[19:31] <mfa298> I think a few of the AVA/PAVA's have done APRS - although it's rare as they don't often go outside the UK
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[19:32] <LeoBodnar> Upu's new habduino can as far I remember
[19:32] <arko> ah
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> I remember it saying you need a licence and the onus is on the user
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> *it = website
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[19:33] <LeoBodnar> http://www.habduino.org/ "Optional 300mW 2 meter transmitter for APRS." wow, that's some power! cool
[19:34] <arko> its to market it to americans who dont realize you only need 10mW
[19:35] <arko> :P
[19:35] <arko> reminds me of my first hab.... 35W
[19:35] <arko> not even joking
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> 299.99mW
[19:35] <arko> hehe
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[19:36] <LeoBodnar> You need 1kW if you are near Rome
[19:37] <arko> haha
[19:37] <arko> lots of radio stations?
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> Yes heavy packet traffic
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[19:39] <LeoBodnar> After certain point APRS just bottlenecks
[19:39] <arko> yeah
[19:40] <arko> i really really dislike APRS for many reasons
[19:40] <bertrik> arko: 35W, wow
[19:40] <arko> its nice
[19:40] <arko> i like ax.25
[19:40] <arko> but so much traffic on the same frequency without any code division is stupid
[19:40] <mfa298> seeing a bit of discussion on ##hamadio the otherday the suggestions seemed to be that aprs bottle necks at under 30% channel utilisation which is pretty poor
[19:40] <arko> bertrik: yeah i had no idea what i was doing
[19:41] <mfa298> in some ways packet radio is a bit like the old 10Base2 days - except some of the stations can't hear the others so even collision detection can fail.
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> wtf?! "WIDE7-7,TRACE7-7" http://aprs.fi/info/a/IR1BO
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> I have sweet memories of HDLC
[19:43] <mikestir> anyone heard if space x is having another go tonight?
[19:43] <arko> LeoBodnar: wtf?
[19:43] <arko> why not WIDE2-1?
[19:44] <arko> 7-7????
[19:45] <arko> mikestir: tomorrow
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> It will flood the whole country possibly with so many rebroadcasts
[19:46] <arko> yeah
[19:46] <arko> you can really jam the aprs network
[19:46] <arko> then you get an angry letter from hams
[19:46] <arko> its like the UN though
[19:46] <arko> they cant really do anything about it
[19:47] <craag> There's some digipeaters that wil cap any broadcast packets at 4
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> I am trying to keep it low, sweet and short
[19:47] <arko> you know, the funny thing is ham always look away from security
[19:48] <craag> ie (completely out of spec) editing the packet.
[19:48] <arko> ignoring it like it doesnt exist
[19:48] <arko> i could in the next hour bring the aprs network to its knees
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> It's like golden era of IP in 90's
[19:48] <arko> but because its 99.9% people who treat the system nicely (honesty system) it's usually fine
[19:48] <arko> yeah
[19:49] <arko> even the digital stuff ICOM has
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[19:49] <LeoBodnar> Just because I did not tell everyone my IP address I can keep "My Documents" shared from home without password to access it from the road
[19:50] <arko> about 2 years ago i met an engineer from ICOM and demo'ed to him how i was able to intercept and spoof dstar packets
[19:50] <arko> told him that if they are serious, they need to address this
[19:50] <arko> he got pissed
[19:50] <arko> told me i should stop and that if i continued that i would get in trouble
[19:50] <arko> ^ PRO TIP: Not the attitude to have
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[19:51] <arko> ok, im stopping myself here, otherwise i will go into the big rant i have about hams & crap systems & crap attitudes
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> Well HAM radio implies insecure communication. It's a gentlemen agreement
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[19:51] <arko> true
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[19:53] <arko> annnnyywayyy
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:53] <DL1SGP1> Guten Abend Lunar_Lander
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[19:53] <arko> wie spat ist es?
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> guten abend
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> 20:54
[19:54] <arko> danke
[19:54] <ve6ts> on some of my balloons launches i run aprs, but i avoid the other hams in the area and run my own frequency
[19:54] <arko> :)
[19:54] <ve6ts> it keeps me out of the polatics
[19:54] <arko> word
[19:55] <arko> obviously legal
[19:55] <ve6ts> yup, it is here
[19:55] <arko> i actually liked operating at 434.5 here
[19:55] <arko> no one was on there
[19:55] <arko> many hams dont use it
[19:55] <arko> LeoMhz
[19:56] <Maxell> arko: LPD use it
[19:56] <Maxell> @ 500 mW?
[19:56] <arko> LPD?
[19:56] <Maxell> Low power device. wide fm modulation for voice
[19:56] <arko> oh yeah
[19:56] <arko> i was at 60mW
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[19:58] <LeoBodnar> lol
[19:58] <ve6ts> you should have seen the complaints when i used the "main" aprs freq, around here the ham clubs are run by a very few, new hams cannot get in
[19:59] <ve6ts> so i simply do my own thing
[19:59] <arko> yeah
[20:00] <arko> another reason why i'm trying to get off aprs here and try new things like dominoex or something
[20:00] <ve6ts> the funny thing was i volunteered at all of their events for years, and still never got in.
[20:00] <arko> plus its more fun when the network is colaborated
[20:00] <ve6ts> i like the rtty with backup on field hell, cw
[20:00] <ve6ts> i'm using that for all of my micro balloon launches.
[20:00] <arko> ahh
[20:01] <mfa298> maybe ICOM did it that way so they didn't need to worry about putting backdoors in for the NSA
[20:01] <arko> lol
[20:01] <arko> ICOM has a bad plan as is
[20:02] <arko> they are essentially trying to create a messaging network based on an honesty policy
[20:02] <arko> they cant encrypt
[20:02] <arko> so they just have to deal with the fact that it can be messed with
[20:02] <bertrik> ve6ts: I've never seen field hell on a balloon so far (been lurking for a year or so now)
[20:03] <arko> i wish there is a small band for encrypted stuff
[20:03] <arko> i dont understand why so many hams are against it
[20:03] <arko> why not have both
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> It's illegal in the UK
[20:03] <arko> same here
[20:03] <arko> in the US
[20:03] <arko> http://slashdot.org/story/13/06/26/1243254/fcc-considering-proposal-for-encrypted-ham-radio
[20:05] <ve6ts> bertrik i did it, check out http://arawr.ca
[20:05] <ve6ts> it worked really well
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> Governments become further and further detached from "average" or "median" people.
[20:06] <ve6ts> bertrik: http://arawr.ca/?page=piccw5
[20:06] <ve6ts> the recording of the field hell is up as well as a screen shot during decode
[20:07] <ve6ts> it makes a great backup in noise, as does the morse coed
[20:08] <ve6ts> later this winter i will be adding GPS to my micro launches, so far i've just been testing various transmitter / balloon combo's
[20:08] <ve6ts> my next test will be a float test (no GPS) with 433mhz rtty, fieldhell and morse code
[20:09] <ve6ts> for that one the flight unit is ready, might launch next weekend currently weights around 9 grams including battery
[20:09] <Upu> hi craag sorry been a bit manic here
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[20:09] <Upu> launch may be later on today
[20:09] <Upu> US time
[20:09] <DL1SGP1> Upu if it lands in my backyard I gonna put it on the xmas tree :)
[20:09] <Upu> lol
[20:10] <ve6ts> hey that is a great idea, payload as an xmas decoration, I should do that :)
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[20:12] <bertrik> ve6ts: nice, which radio module did you use?
[20:12] <ve6ts> QAM-TX1-433-ND (from digikey)
[20:12] <ve6ts> $5 each
[20:12] <bertrik> field hell is basically on-off keying with proper timing to draw characters, right?
[20:12] <ve6ts> pwm keying
[20:13] <ve6ts> bertrik yes on/off
[20:13] <ve6ts> you can do it with an oscilator (which i have done in testing as well)
[20:13] <ve6ts> i used 1 cr2032 battery
[20:15] <bertrik> I wonder if you can draw little icons in the waterfall with an RFM22
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> Happy days. GPS is such a power hog...
[20:15] <ve6ts> bertrik that would be cool
[20:15] <ve6ts> LeoBodnar ya i will have to increase my battery when i add a GPS
[20:17] <mfa298_> to get around the no encryption, I wonder if you could come up with a new standard, document it openly, then put the only copy in the basement, in a a locked filing cabinet.
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> We have a VHF beacon that works 10 days on a single hearing aid battery.
[20:17] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
[20:17] <ve6ts> LeoBodnar is that a morse code beacon?
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> Total weight is 3 grams including battery and antenna
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> It's a direction finding one but could be CW if necessary
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> I even did DominoEX on it
[20:18] <bertrik> LeoBodnar: for tracking bats, there are beeping transmitters that are 0.5 gram IIRC
[20:18] <ve6ts> bertrik do you know how long they work?
[20:19] <bertrik> ve6ts: not very long, from 3 to 10 days or so
[20:20] <ve6ts> bertrik that would be great to use for DF events
[20:20] <bertrik> looks like this is the lightest one used for bats http://www.holohil.com/lb2x.htm
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> You can make very light ones but they are usually shite using crystal and two transistors forming an astable oscillator
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> They create chirp and have massive harmonics
[20:21] <bertrik> some models make the beep interval dependant on temperature or orientation (flying/stationary), or light levels
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> "beep interval dependant on temperature " you get that for free it also depends on power level and proximity to other objects
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> lol
[20:22] <bertrik> hey, it's a feature! not a bug! :)
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> I know :D
[20:23] <ve6ts> hehe
[20:23] <ve6ts> i can't believe those are under 1 gram
[20:23] <bertrik> with bats, there is a kind of rule that says you can't increase the bat weight by more than 5% or so, so that's just 0.5g for a 10 gram bat
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> The one I have seen claimed to be 150MHz - turned out it had crystal oscillating at 50MHz and was only 150MHz because of massive harmonics content. It could have just said "*50MHz"
[20:24] <ve6ts> hahaha
[20:24] <bertrik> another feature! :D
[20:25] <ve6ts> i wanna try one of those for hab
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> No LPF, etc.
[20:25] <ve6ts> rdf
[20:25] <ve6ts> any idea on what they cost?
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[20:27] <bertrik> not really, E 50 to 100 or so
[20:28] <mattbrejza> hey Upu , managed to connect a max7 to ucentre or you been busy today?
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> He's v busy with contractor on-site
[20:29] <mattbrejza> oh ok, nm then
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> maybe this evening?
[20:30] <mattbrejza> i wasnt gonna look into it much myself tonight anyway
[20:30] <Upu> busy as
[20:30] <Upu> now coordinating a transatlantic launch
[20:30] <Upu> as you do
[20:30] <Upu> :)
[20:30] <Upu> I have a MAX7C here
[20:30] <Upu> will connect shortly
[20:31] <mattbrejza> ah thanks
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> Did you make much sense from UBLOX diagnostics info mattbrejza ? Does it make any sense to include in telemetry?
[20:31] <mattbrejza> i think it might be something electronic in my room jamming, so waiting on jonsowman to be around to borrow his laptop
[20:31] <mattbrejza> well the potentially useful item is the noise level one
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> GPS should really be as reliable as a resistor considering IP and cost involved.
[20:34] <Upu> right just plugging it in mattbrejza
[20:34] <Upu> what am I testing ?
[20:35] <mattbrejza> in ucentre
[20:35] <mattbrejza> open a message window thing
[20:35] <mattbrejza> go ubx -> mon -> hw
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[20:37] <Upu> just getting a lock
[20:38] <Upu> noise 109 AGC 68.6% CW Jamming 19.6%
[20:38] <mattbrejza> you shouldnt need to get a lock
[20:38] <Upu> 2D
[20:38] <Upu> 3D
[20:38] <mattbrejza> hmm the noise figure you have is only 2 points lower than mine
[20:38] <mattbrejza> and your cw jamming is higher
[20:39] <mattbrejza> so seems that doesnt really help
[20:39] <mattbrejza> or rather help explain
[20:39] <mattbrejza> not sure there is anything else useful
[20:39] <Upu> if you have two modules doing the same thing
[20:39] <Upu> its got to be something else
[20:39] <Upu> want me to send you this one ?
[20:39] <mattbrejza> yea espeically if you tested them
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[20:40] <mattbrejza> na, ill test somewhere else with a different laptop
[20:40] <Upu> ok let me know
[20:40] <mattbrejza> that should solve it
[20:40] <Upu> happy to send you another to rule it out
[20:40] <Upu> these are slower to get an initial lock
[20:40] <Upu> but that was less than 2 mins to 3D lock
[20:40] <mattbrejza> if you tested these before you sent them then sending that one isnt gonna change much
[20:40] <mattbrejza> i have two max7c breakouts too
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[20:41] <Upu> or send them back and I'll check them here
[20:41] <Upu> just let me know
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[20:41] <mattbrejza> ok thanks, hopefully should sort it out here
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[20:42] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: they are not 100% drop in replacements. I am using I2C with "data ready" indication and after dropping MAX7 in this does not work anymore. I had to revert to extra timeout without much investigation.
[20:46] <mattbrejza> yea atm im just connecting to the pc with a serial converter
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> There could be subtle change in the UBX protocol somewhere but I am dreading going through UBLOX part of my code again.
[20:46] <mattbrejza> i did notice the recommended connction for vbat has changed
[20:47] <mattbrejza> Upu: ^ i tihnk your boards still connect vbat to vcc, now its supposed to be gnd
[20:47] <mattbrejza> dunno why
[20:47] <Upu> its always been GND
[20:47] <mattbrejza> oh really
[20:47] <Upu> if not in use
[20:47] <mattbrejza> must be dreaming lol
[20:47] <mattbrejza> ill check the appnotes
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> I always connected them to Vcc :D
[20:47] <Upu> however I've not seen it make a jot of difference if its left floating
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> And to GND on earlier revisions - no difference if you don't put it to sleep forcefully
[20:48] <mattbrejza> yea i didnt see it making much differnece
[20:49] <mattbrejza> oh so i have been connecting it to gnd
[20:49] <mattbrejza> dunno what i was reading
[20:49] <mattbrejza> o well
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[20:58] <Laurenceb__> this is very odd
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[20:58] <Laurenceb__> i have some instrumentation amplifiers that arent amplifying
[20:58] <Laurenceb__> lol
[20:58] <Laurenceb__> the output is stuck at the reference level
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> how come?
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> which p/n
[20:58] <Laurenceb__> AD623
[20:58] <Laurenceb__> im wondering if the output is fried
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> what are the input levels?
[20:59] <Laurenceb__> 1.2v
[20:59] <Laurenceb__> same as the reference
[20:59] <Laurenceb__> even if the input fluctuates
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> what is the Rgain?
[21:01] <Laurenceb__> 2k
[21:03] <Laurenceb__> ive got 10 boards so far
[21:03] <Laurenceb__> 6 work, 2 untested, 2 with this weird failure
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> Ah, so it is not failing on all?
[21:04] <Laurenceb__> nope
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> so your gain is 51?
[21:06] <Laurenceb__> yes
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> Do you have inputs open-circuited?
[21:08] <Laurenceb__> nope, they go onto a 2smpp sensor
[21:08] <Laurenceb__> one of the omron thingies
[21:08] <Laurenceb__> "Output Short-Circuit Duration | Indefinite "
[21:08] <Laurenceb__> so it isnt that the output got shorted
[21:08] <Laurenceb__> very odd
[21:10] <Laurenceb__> gain resistor is at ~3v and has a hundered mv or so across it
[21:11] <Laurenceb__> inputs are 1.94v
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[21:18] <LeoBodnar> What is Vpp? 3V?
[21:19] <Laurenceb__> 3.3v
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[21:19] <Laurenceb__> maybe i am hitting common mode range limit
[21:19] <Laurenceb__> on some parts
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> You are
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[21:21] <LeoBodnar> It's fairly high, let me go through datasheet
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> This is proper three opamp instrumentation amp. Often there is saturation on one of the internal opamps
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> usually the one after IN+
[21:22] <Laurenceb__> ah
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[21:24] <Laurenceb__> yeah i was using a Ti amplifier on an earlier board
[21:24] <Laurenceb__> but the footprint isnt the same :-/
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[21:28] <LeoBodnar> Input voltage range is (+Vs)-1.5v busted
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> INA122?
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Ignore INA122 - it is pin-compatible
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[21:30] <Laurenceb__> needs to be MSOP8 too
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> most good ones are SOIC :D
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[21:32] <LeoBodnar> I would have recommended AD627 but it's SOIC-8
[21:34] <Laurenceb__> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1360695.pdf
[21:34] <Laurenceb__> maybe
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[21:36] <LeoBodnar> This is 2 opamp one they are usually lower in performance CMRR etc, but more forgiving
[21:36] <LeoBodnar> And usually cheaper too!
[21:37] <Laurenceb__> seems to do 50x gain at 3.3v supply
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> Even microchip made one.
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> It's smaller than MSOP
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> if you are after size
[21:38] <Laurenceb__> i already have the pcbs
[21:38] <Laurenceb__> so im limited to what i can swap for
[21:39] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/c98bL0q.jpg
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[21:43] <Laurenceb__> heh
[21:43] <Laurenceb__> this looks more hardcore
[21:43] <Laurenceb__> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina333.pdf
[21:43] <Laurenceb__> same gain equation and RF filtering
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> wazzup? It's zerø-drift time
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[21:46] <LeoBodnar> Looks interesting
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> I have used these http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/25073A.pdf
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> ok
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> it says common mode to within 0.1v of rails
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> but then figure 23 seems to suggest otherwise
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> (ina333)
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> Hehe welcome to datashite art
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> It is indeed when output voltage is 0
[21:52] <Laurenceb__> ah i see now
[21:52] <Laurenceb__> heh
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[21:53] <LeoBodnar> so if you have a weird design where the CV moves towards Vpp/2 as the differential voltage increases it is indeed possible
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[21:55] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> it looks borderline feasible for my system
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> INA333 it is then
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> thanks for the help
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[22:06] <Upu> evening Jim
[22:06] <N2NXZ> Hello
[22:06] <Upu> hows the soldering going ?
[22:07] <N2NXZ> ha ha ...got it now,,,tight spot for sure
[22:07] <Upu> the boards do separate
[22:07] <Upu> but you have to be careful
[22:08] <N2NXZ> I got it...not the oprettiest job,but solid with no bridges
[22:08] <Upu> good :)
[22:08] <Upu> that one is a bit of a botch job anyway
[22:08] <N2NXZ> I need a better uiron tip for those ...:)
[22:09] <Upu> it was a prototype
[22:09] <Upu> you should see the iron I use to make them
[22:09] <N2NXZ> thats ok,,,looks very cool to me
[22:09] <N2NXZ> makes my beacon look like a hack job...lol
[22:09] <arko> good luck N2NXZ
[22:09] <N2NXZ> tnx
[22:09] <arko> and Upu
[22:09] <Upu> isn't this what being an amateur is all about ?
[22:10] <Upu> hacking it up :)
[22:10] <Upu> so whens the plan to launch ?
[22:10] <N2NXZ> yup
[22:10] <N2NXZ> thinking tomorrow at sunset unless you think otherwise
[22:10] <Upu> well you can launch well before sunset
[22:10] <N2NXZ> I think night launch is against rules here
[22:10] <Upu> just aim to hit 30km + as sun sets
[22:11] <Upu> and try the vent pipe
[22:11] <N2NXZ> ok,just wanted to keep it aloft
[22:11] <Upu> I think its the only thing that will stop it bursting on day 2
[22:11] <arko> N2NXZ: i think you need a blinking light on it or something
[22:11] <arko> its in Part101
[22:11] <N2NXZ> you took the thoughts out of my head,,,you think it will be ok to try?
[22:11] <Upu> Well I had a quick chat and a number of us think its the only way
[22:11] <N2NXZ> yes...no time for more things though :)
[22:11] <arko> plan it so it hits 30km at sunset over international waters
[22:12] <Upu> the balloons don't seem to be strong enough survive sunrise the day after
[22:12] <Upu> mine didn't neither did fsphil's yesterday
[22:12] <N2NXZ> well,you think a ordinary pen casing?Markler or something...that is a large nozzle
[22:12] <Upu> both had about the same neck lift and payload weight
[22:12] <Upu> only needs to be small
[22:12] <Upu> but stiff so it doesn't collapse and seal
[22:12] <N2NXZ> common pen casing then?
[22:13] <Upu> I would say the inside of a pen
[22:13] <Upu> the bit that has the ink in it
[22:13] <N2NXZ> hmmm...ought to be a clean job :)
[22:13] <Upu> apologies in advance to your XYL for the mess you're about to make
[22:13] <N2NXZ> lol
[22:13] <Upu> just tell her some bloke off the internet told you to do it
[22:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Spray can nozzle tube is often the same size ?
[22:13] <Upu> yep if you have one
[22:13] <N2NXZ> you should see the kitchen...looks like a scientific lab
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[22:14] <N2NXZ> spray can tubing sounds good...easier without ink
[22:14] <Upu> just needs to stay open when you seal the balloon
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> Paper tubes and duck tape sounds familiar.
[22:15] <N2NXZ> The trackers in Maine are ready
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> You need to arrive at sunset with almost zero free lift. Does this help?! :D
[22:15] <N2NXZ> zero?
[22:16] <N2NXZ> for
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> *sunrise
[22:16] <N2NXZ> the reason that it will be dark time?
[22:16] <N2NXZ> hmm
[22:16] <N2NXZ> i was going to have just a tad more,but if you think zero...zero it is
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> The sun will heat it up and will keep it afloat
[22:17] <N2NXZ> as long as it makes the night
[22:17] <Upu> put the vent in and you should be fine whatever you put in it
[22:17] <N2NXZ> yup...nothing to lose all to gain i suppose
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, better smaller vent than large one
[22:17] <Upu> air duster can is perfect
[22:17] <Upu> good call that Geoff
[22:18] <Upu> 100% less ink
[22:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> I have a dozen or more lying infront of me!
[22:18] <Upu> do you collect them ? :/
[22:18] <N2NXZ> i better see what i can wreck to get one
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> WHen' the next flight from Heathrow?
[22:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes!
[22:19] <Upu> afk dog walk
[22:19] <N2NXZ> be back soon,going to look for tubing
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[22:20] <LeoBodnar> http://omegainc.com/Portals/142206/images/Apollo_13_Mailbox_at_Mission_Control.jpg
[22:21] <N2NXZ> :)
[22:21] <arko> tell me this isnt a government operation
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[22:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> You see you didn't believe me ;-) http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/index.php?ind=5
[22:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Apollo 13 carbon dioxide scrubber! LeoBodnar
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> :)
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[22:24] <N2NXZ> those are good tubings...i have some here to use
[22:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thay came in handy for all sorts of jobs!
[22:27] <N2NXZ> i have one in my hands now
[22:28] <N2NXZ> going for it...sounds too logical to fail...:)
[22:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Send a balloon over and I'll tie a few to it for you ;-)
[22:28] <N2NXZ> ha haha ...i will tomorrow
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[22:32] <LeoBodnar> lol arko at microwave.
[22:32] <arko> hehe
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> I had to educate coworkers and blew up a few CDs in ours
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> modern kids eh
[22:36] <arko> hahaha
[22:36] <arko> reminds me of high school when we blew up my friends microwave with grapes
[22:36] <arko> we cut a bunch in half and put them in there for plasma
[22:36] <arko> it toasted the microwave
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> haha
[22:36] <arko> his mom was sooo angry
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[22:39] <Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D3EvpRHL_vk
[22:40] <Laurenceb__> what the hll
[22:41] <arko> yeah
[22:41] <arko> thats freakin epic
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[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: Okaaay :)
[22:45] <LeoBodnar> My best friend's mum suffered quite a bit. The few projects I remember she encountered were human-sized Faraday cage, production of large quantities of Hydrogen and makeshift colour photographs labs. The rest of the projects she was happily not aware of.
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[22:49] <LeoBodnar> No TASing?
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Is it storing you executable code in machine codes directly and running it?
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> very 80's
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> It's basically just a buffer overflow attack
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[22:53] <LeoBodnar> Ah, OK
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[23:00] <Laurenceb__> boo spacex delayed
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
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[23:02] <SpeedEvil> I guess those microthrusters would scale really well - apart from the voltage requirement which is a bit annoying.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> I could see them working in a 5cm cubesat.
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> piezo transformers are nice
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> electron guns dont scale well
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> so youd need to go bipolar
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> I am almost there
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> some of the ionic liquid guys think you can reverse the polarity
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> very quickly
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> but i dont think anyone has ever demonstrated this
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> Sort of like inkjet printers?
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> the charge accumulated quickly on the sat and it all does wrong
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> print a blue dot, a red dot,, ...
[23:07] <Laurenceb__> liquid indium looks well demonstrated and easyish
[23:07] <Laurenceb__> but its positive polarity only
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> What about field emitters?
[23:07] <LeoBodnar> Good point, you can accumulate massive charge in space
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[23:08] <SpeedEvil> I've heard things about nanotube wool
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> And - well - there was that nice video on how to make it
[23:08] <Laurenceb__> yeah it might work
[23:08] <Laurenceb__> i dont understand how you control the sat charge
[23:08] <Laurenceb__> surely you need an e gun current control loop
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> the gun charges the craft until it begins to reattract electrons?
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> and it remains at that charge with a feedback loop
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> something like that
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> (but not an internal one)
[23:10] <Laurenceb__> maybe they add a metal target plate to the back
[23:10] <Laurenceb__> and very sensitive charge detector
[23:10] <Laurenceb__> to detect exhaust getting sucked back
[23:11] <qyx_> hm, doesn't they use electron guns to neutralize that?
[23:11] <qyx_> there was something said about them in your documents
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> you don't care about being a bit positively charged due to the electrons
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> Is this like open-ended CRT tube?
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> as that will repel - a little - the positively charged masses a tiny bit better
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[23:14] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[23:14] <Laurenceb__> qyx_: electroni gus are power hungry
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.com/patents/US6215243
[23:16] <qyx_> also there was some document i've read which said that polarity could be and should be reversed periodically
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Tritiated titanium
[23:16] <qyx_> some nasa coloidal thruster stuff
[23:16] <Laurenceb__> qyx_: yeah
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Tritium in quantities needed is easy to get
[23:16] <Laurenceb__> but coloidal efficiency sucks
[23:16] <Laurenceb__> i used thorium for my masters project
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[23:17] <Laurenceb__> thorium sharpened with dremel :P
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:17] <qyx_> "once i played with trollium"
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[23:23] Action: Laurenceb__ wonders if CE still applies if you change instrumentation amps
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[23:25] <Laurenceb__> ill pretend it hasnt changed :P
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[23:28] <LeoBodnar> just say you have swapped functionally identical parts
[23:29] <LeoBodnar> and product compliance has increased as a result
[23:30] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://www.technologyreview.com/demo/521956/printing-batteries/
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[23:34] <LeoBodnar> looks cool
[23:34] <LeoBodnar> I am off, good night!
[23:35] <arko> night!
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> Night.
[23:38] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[23:44] <Laurenceb__> http://www.technologyreview.com/sites/default/files/images/demo.web_.9.10x948.jpg
[23:44] <Laurenceb__> short city
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[23:55] <SpeedEvil> Some sort of MEMsy thing?
[23:58] <N2NXZ> http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=glob_250
[00:00] --- Tue Dec 3 2013