highaltitude.log.20131127

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[01:29] <arko> woo
[01:29] <arko> weather looks good for tomorrow
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[01:33] <Darkside> arko: 37 degrees here today
[01:33] <arko> C or F?
[01:33] <arko> i only do C now days :P
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[01:42] <W6YRA> arko: I'm here now too so we don't spam #cubesat
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[01:42] <arko> great
[01:42] <arko> good thinking
[01:45] <arko> W6YRA: fixed!
[01:45] <arko> thanks
[01:46] <W6YRA> ok, I'll work on the getting fl-digi & stuff installed. it is an ubuntu station with soundmodem & hamlib/gpredict, so the hw is all in place
[01:46] <arko> nice!
[01:46] <arko> you can do 434.5Mhz?
[01:47] <W6YRA> yep, 6ft yagi. i'd like more for satellite, overkill for this
[01:47] <SIbot> In real units: 6 ft = 1.83 m
[01:47] <arko> :D
[01:47] <arko> awesome
[01:47] <arko> lol SIbot
[01:47] <arko> W6YRA: EE at UCLA?
[01:49] <W6YRA> personally, staff engineer @ IGPP, personal call NX1U. student EEs are on our cubesat project
[01:49] <arko> oh awesome!
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[01:58] <W6YRA> arko: we've been having trouble with these 9600 satellites. we have a couple rigs on campus that work fine together, but do you use it, or know anyone that does?
[02:00] <arko> I have a hack rf and a USB RTL with a preamp/filter
[02:01] <W6YRA> i really want a hackrf. i have a FCDP & usbrtl. filter too, and a crummy preamp, but the rig i'll be using for the balloon is a FT-897
[02:01] <arko> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=72_73
[02:01] <arko> i use the 434 mhz preamp/filter
[02:01] <arko> its great
[02:02] <arko> hackrf is nice though
[02:09] <wd8mnv> i hope Hackrf One gets here on time : )
[02:09] <arko> :)
[02:09] <arko> should be cool
[02:09] <arko> i love my hackrf
[02:09] <wd8mnv> i need better antennas
[02:10] <arko> such is life
[02:10] <wd8mnv> a japanese hame has made a dongle/upconverter all-in-one for like ~$60 shipped... soft66rtl
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[04:34] <MobileNathan> hi
[04:35] <MobileNathan> arko, if you're online we are at the hackerspace. We were wondering if you were coming dkwn
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[05:02] <DL7AD_> morning
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[07:32] <arko> damn i missed MobileNathan
[07:32] <arko> time to sleep, launching the hab in 8 hours
[07:33] <fsphil> nite!
[07:33] <fsphil> morning!
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[07:38] <x-f> morning, snowontheground
[07:43] <arko> W6YRA: nice
[07:43] <arko> i see your station at UCLA :D
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[07:48] <DL7AD_> morning fsphil x-f arko
[07:48] <DL7AD_> morning @all
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[08:16] <DL1SGP1> morning @all time for breakfast bbiab
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[09:58] <nats`> hi
[10:01] <DL1SGP1> salut nats`
[10:01] <tjanos> good morning!
[10:02] <tjanos> we try to puzzle with WREN sat
[10:02] <tjanos> have you any info about it?
[10:04] <DL1SGP1> good morning tjanos
[10:05] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[10:06] <DL1SGP> I guess you found this already anyhow: http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/24/wren-a-ham-radio-sstv-pocketqube/
[10:09] <tjanos> Thaknk you, but its "old news" on their facebook page there are more but not clear notes: https://www.facebook.com/StaDoKo
[10:09] <tjanos> rsy, mayb ethis is OFF here.
[10:09] <tjanos> sry *
[10:09] <DL1SGP> I avoid facebook :)
[10:10] <tjanos> I dont like it too, but they put something there only
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[10:16] <mdcarter> hello everyone =)
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[10:18] <fsphil> morning
[10:19] <mdcarter> I'm a french dude and I'm working on my first ballons fligth, and I have some questions :/
[10:19] <nats`> legal aspect ? :D
[10:20] <mdcarter> nah I got that covered after NUMEROUS calls pretty much everywhere =D
[10:20] <mdcarter> I have big trouble finding Helium actually
[10:20] <mdcarter> the best I can get is "ballonium 2.8" wich is 97% helium mixed with air
[10:20] <mdcarter> I was wondering if it would affect the altitude the balloon could get heavily or not
[10:21] <daveake> not much
[10:21] <mdcarter> really ? that would be great
[10:21] <nats`> mdcarter if you found some reliable information on the legal aspect I would love to have some information
[10:21] <mdcarter> I spent some time contacting the company but they can't get me technical informations like density to use in theb urst calculator
[10:21] <fsphil> I believe the gas I use has 5% air
[10:21] <fsphil> well estimated, I'm sure it varies quite a bit
[10:22] <nats`> I searched around the interweb without calling anybody and didn't find anything usefull
[10:22] <mdcarter> you're French nats ?
[10:22] <mdcarter> thank you very much fsphil, that's reassuring =)
[10:23] <DL1SGP> hi mdcarter, fsphil and daveake
[10:23] <nats`> yep
[10:23] <nats`> i'm french
[10:23] <mdcarter> okay, so i have bad and good news
[10:23] <mdcarter> the good news is that os pretty easy to have an authorisation
[10:23] <nats`> as usual with french law :D
[10:23] <nats`> oky
[10:23] <mdcarter> the bad news is that the regulation is changing on the 12th of december, this year
[10:23] <nats`> and become worse ?
[10:24] <mdcarter> much, apparently ^
[10:24] <nats`> :\
[10:24] <nats`> it was easy even if you're not a ham ?
[10:24] <mdcarter> for now all you have to do is contact the DGAC (direction général de l'aviation civile) near the point where you're going to launch
[10:24] <mdcarter> and gove them all the information about the ballon, the launch etc and they'll give you a paper
[10:24] <mdcarter> my ballon is not ham
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[10:25] <nats`> and for frequencies
[10:25] <daveake> We should all emigrate to Spain
[10:25] <mdcarter> you need a certification to do ham here too
[10:25] <nats`> they gave many not coherent information
[10:25] <mdcarter> yeah I had a lot of back and forth between the prefecture and severals dgac
[10:26] <mdcarter> the point is you only really need an authorisation from the aviation civile, and a personnal insurance
[10:26] <nats`> by personnal insurance you mean specifically about pico balloon or a general personnal insurance ?
[10:27] <nats`> because if I'm not wrong the general one will not cover you if you do damage
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[10:27] <mdcarter> what you need is "responsabilité civile"
[10:27] <nats`> oky so pretty standard one
[10:28] <nats`> and they gave you an autorisation for what frequency ?
[10:28] <nats`> 433 ?
[10:28] <mdcarter> but you're right, it won't probably cover everything but at least you won't go to jail :D
[10:28] <mdcarter> oh no, no frequency
[10:28] <nats`> ? oO
[10:28] <mdcarter> as I said I'm not doing HAM
[10:28] <nats`> 433 is not HAM
[10:28] <mdcarter> it's just for the physical launch
[10:28] <nats`> it's an ISM band
[10:28] <nats`> but don't know his use in the air
[10:29] <nats`> and what you will put in the balloon so ?
[10:29] <mdcarter> oh right, then I have no idea
[10:29] <mdcarter> I'm using a sateliite and gsm tracker
[10:29] <mdcarter> so the dude at the dgac told me it was fine
[10:29] <nats`> WEIRD !
[10:29] <nats`> totally weird oO
[10:29] <nats`> normally you shouldn't use GSM in a UAV from what I red
[10:29] <nats`> french law are a bunch of unreadable crap
[10:30] <nats`> anyway if the DGAC said ok that's fine :)
[10:30] <mdcarter> yeah henestly, they all say differents things
[10:30] <nats`> and it's a one time autorisation ?
[10:30] <mdcarter> as long as I have the official paper my ass is covered =D
[10:30] <nats`> yep french concept
[10:31] <mdcarter> yup, for one launh on one specific date
[10:31] <nats`> always cover your ass :D
[10:31] <mdcarter> i managed to have one for a whole week-end to account for the weather
[10:31] <nats`> I even red some text suggesting that for pico sized balloon you didn't need autorisation
[10:31] <mdcarter> I hope it'll be fine :/
[10:31] <nats`> I hope to
[10:31] <nats`> :)
[10:31] <nats`> and you have an overview of what it'll be next month ?
[10:32] <mdcarter> not really, I got the authorisation yesterday
[10:32] <mdcarter> and it's only for the week end next week
[10:32] <mdcarter> I'm a bit stressed =D
[10:32] <nats`> I understand :)
[10:32] <nats`> where do you do your launch ?
[10:32] <nats`> :)
[10:33] <mdcarter> in champagne ardennes, near reims
[10:34] <nats`> ok too far from me to come but I would like it :)
[10:34] <mdcarter> if I succeed i'll come back here to give the photos/videos
[10:35] <nats`> if you end up with any news concerning the future law I would be intereted to hear about it :)
[10:36] <mdcarter> yeah he just tole me it was a law enforcd by the european union, and that it would take them some time to change things
[10:36] <mdcarter> he also told me that beside météo france, almost no one is doing that here =D
[10:37] <eroomde> funny conversation with a sliding bushings company technical person
[10:37] <eroomde> i want a slide that works in a very high pressure gaseos oxygen environment, so was asking him abotu mateirals compatibility
[10:38] <eroomde> he offered that they could do 'self extinguishing' slides
[10:38] <eroomde> given it's high pressure oxygen and hydrogen, i'd sort of rather it wasn't on fire in the first place
[10:38] <mdcarter> ahah
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[10:45] <mdcarter> do someone have any advice to fill the balloons ?
[10:45] <mdcarter> I'm using an hyowee 1200 and the nexk is rather large
[10:47] <eroomde> some drainage pipe and cabl;e ties
[10:49] <mdcarter> like they do in this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_06Q_eWta8 ?
[10:49] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:balloon_filler
[10:50] <daveake> or (better) http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sealing_the_balloon?s[]=filler
[10:50] <daveake> and http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:fill_tube?s[]=filler
[10:51] <mdcarter> oh, great! thank you =)
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[11:06] <eroomde> 'Traces to Nowhere' is a biographical documentary about one of ym favourite conductors, Carlos Kleiber
[11:06] <eroomde> it is also an apt name for my current pcb design
[11:06] <daveake> hah
[11:07] <eroomde> another one where every sincle (every single) pin of the 64pin arm has to be used
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[11:07] <daveake> Is copper your second-favourite conductor?
[11:07] <eroomde> so fanout is a bit of a pig
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[12:02] <nats`> SpeedEvil do you think the capacitor of a veroboard could screw up my LNA at 430MHz
[12:02] <nats`> it's the last point I see for such bad performance
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[12:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> depends on how much track you are using and the frequencies, a long length of track will be resonant at freq's you might be interested in nats`
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[12:13] <nats`> Geoff-G8DHE I think I'll do a test without using tin trac on the vero board
[12:13] <nats`> I'll glue the component on a epoxy board without copper
[12:14] <nats`> and use thin wire to do the connection
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> just cut out the layout you need on double sided board for testing or glue bits of single sided board onto another piece is another technique
[12:15] <nats`> I could do it with peroxyde I have the material but it'll take time without warranty of results
[12:15] <nats`> I would prefer to validate my proto before
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just use a sharp knife to cut the track out from double sided board for test
[12:17] <nats`> last time I did that it didn't ended well but I'll retry and tell you if it works correctly :)
[12:17] <nats`> or if I lost my hand this time
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[12:17] <nats`> I don't fear chemistry but mechanical work is a pain for me :D
[12:17] <cm13g09> daveake, eroomde: Bad... both of you... (the jokes)
[12:18] <daveake> Just when all trace of laughter had vanished ...
[12:18] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[12:19] <cm13g09> daveake: BAD BAD BAD!
[12:21] <fsphil> I thought it was a super conductor pun
[12:24] <cm13g09> fsphil: No.....
[12:24] <cm13g09> I am currently struggling to contain myself in the office....
[12:24] <cm13g09> and this is causing my colleagues to worry....
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[12:56] <LazyLeopard> The RSGB discussion on airborne use has got to "summary" stage. Probably worth checking...
[12:59] <mattbrejza> link?
[12:59] <SiC> I keep meaning to post on the RSGB discussion
[12:59] <SiC> as it completely missed out on all FPV activities
[12:59] <SiC> which is far bigger than HAB
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> I'm trying to build dl-fldigi on OS X and get "configure: error: Package requirements (libpng >= 1.2.8) were not met: No package 'libpng' found" error
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> but MacBook:dl-fldigi lbodnar$ libpng-config --version
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> 1.2.46
[13:00] <LazyLeopard> Try http://rsgbdata.net/litmus/viewforum.php?f=22
[13:01] <DL1SGP1> hi LeoBodnar SiC mattbrejza LazyLeopard
[13:01] <Hix> Volocopter anyone? http://goo.gl/2aKQne
[13:03] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[13:03] <SiC> I'd love to see that thing trying to autorotate...
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[13:08] <craag> "RSGBs Litmus Test did not attract huge interest.."
[13:08] <craag> I'd say it had a great amount of interest, most of us were just well aware that many postings on a phpbb forum cause the good posts to get lost!
[13:09] <mattbrejza> has it been pointed out that airborne use will incourage more people to actively do ham stuff?
[13:10] <craag> Yes it has.
[13:10] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, it got a good selection of responses, not the insane level some of the others generated...
[13:10] <mattbrejza> what else has been proposed?
[13:10] <mattbrejza> dw
[13:10] <mattbrejza> 'Embedding the Progressive Licence Concept'
[13:11] <mattbrejza> whatever that means
[13:11] <craag> LazyLeopard: You mean it didn't turn into a flamewar like some of the others did..
[13:11] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:11] <craag> mattbrejza: Everyone should progress through to full, not sit on an M6 for years..
[13:12] <mattbrejza> automatically?
[13:12] <craag> No, jsut that their M6 will expire after a few years.
[13:12] <craag> (that's the idea)
[13:12] <craag> I don't like it
[13:12] <mattbrejza> which reminds me i need to renew my M6 :P
[13:12] <fsphil> horrible idea
[13:12] <mattbrejza> the 5 year thing
[13:12] <fsphil> most would simply let it lapse and not go back to the hobby
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[13:13] <fsphil> and there's nothing wrong with having a foundation license anyway
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[13:13] <LazyLeopard> Most folk who're half-way serious go for the higher exams anyway.
[13:13] <craag> fsphil: Yeah, I know several people with foundation licenses that have no reason to progress, despite definitely knowing enough to pass the full blindfolded.
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[13:14] <mattbrejza> ha whats my ofcom password...
[13:14] <craag> They just do experimentation and occasional local chats on VHF
[13:14] <fsphil> exactly
[13:14] <craag> So no reason for higher power, remote ops, abroad use, etc
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[13:15] <fsphil> it's not exactly easy for some to get to an intermediate/advanced exam either
[13:15] <craag> No it isn't, something we've put a lot of effort into solving at southampton uni
[13:15] <mattbrejza> why do they want people to progress anyyway?
[13:15] <fsphil> probably just the people who don't consider an M6 to be a real license
[13:16] <craag> mattbrejza: At the ITU conference, they get more sway if they have more licensees, and the ITU doesn't consider M6/2E0 to be real licenses
[13:16] <craag> (They're not international amateur radio licenses)
[13:16] <mattbrejza> what actually happens at these ITU conferences?
[13:16] <craag> not a clue
[13:17] <mattbrejza> if they want more M0s then automatically convert 2E0s to M0s after 5 years :P
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> Reminiscing about CW?
[13:17] <mattbrejza> problem solved
[13:17] <mattbrejza> i would have thought the ITU has other things to worry about other than HAMs
[13:17] <craag> oh yeah, interesting stat, in the last 3 years the southampton uni club has been responsible for just over 1% of all new licenses in the UK!
[13:17] <mattbrejza> what was the last ITU HAM related rule change?
[13:18] <LeoBodnar> Introduce lower requirements each 5 years and automatically upgrade existing ones to full licence
[13:18] <LeoBodnar> This happened so many times already
[13:18] <craag> haha Leo
[13:19] <mattbrejza> its only ham radio, its not like upgrading a moped licence to a car licence to a HGV licence
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[13:19] <craag> mattbrejza: But then the loudest voices at the RSGB are the ones who say M6s shouldn't be allowed on HF, it says so in their BR68!
[13:19] <LazyLeopard> If folk know enough to pass the Advanced exam blindfold then they ought to take and pass the exam...
[13:20] <mattbrejza> put the exam online :)
[13:20] <craag> LazyLeopard: It's often not that easy, a couple of guys here had to drive 2 hours *each* way to get to a place to do intermediate.
[13:20] <mattbrejza> br68?
[13:21] <craag> mattbrejza: THe old pre-ofcom license regs
[13:21] <mattbrejza> oh right
[13:21] <mattbrejza> also brie sandwich, nom nom
[13:21] <mattbrejza> should do that more often
[13:21] <eroomde> i had beef and stilton
[13:21] <craag> Amazing the number of hams that still use it, having not checked their license documents in many years.
[13:21] <eroomde> and mustard
[13:21] <eroomde> it's an amazing combo
[13:21] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, the practical side of the Intermediate is a bit of a stumbling block, but if folk had to progress then there'd be more demand for the facility....
[13:22] <fsphil> mustard is overrated
[13:22] <mattbrejza> beef is always a good thing to have in a sandwich
[13:22] <mattbrejza> my other sandwich has chili sauce in, kinda like mustard :P
[13:22] <craag> LazyLeopard: We've got an exam centre at the uni now, with a couple of us as instructors. and we are now cramming people in for every exam date!
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[13:22] <LazyLeopard> craag: Excellent!
[13:23] <fsphil> why isn't there a tzinfo.UTC in python
[13:23] <fsphil> that's annoying
[13:23] <LazyLeopard> We ended up cancelling one Intermediate course this year, and ran the other with only five students.
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[13:24] <craag> LazyLeopard: about 80 people in the last 3 years, not bad for a club with only about 15 properly-active members.
[13:25] <craag> Really ramped up recently
[13:26] <mattbrejza> what sort of people are taking the test?
[13:26] <LazyLeopard> craag: That's often how it goes. Folks interested in running training and exams congregate at the clubs which make a habit of doing training.
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[13:27] <LazyLeopard> Uni clubs with a couple of dedicated staff can make a big difference, too.
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[13:28] <LazyLeopard> mattbrejza: At my local club I'd put the average age of students at 50+, and almost all are men.
[13:29] <LazyLeopard> Sometimes we get father+son on a course.
[13:29] <mattbrejza> hmm ok
[13:29] <mattbrejza> how about here though craag ?
[13:30] <eroomde> another reason i like analog. stuff is bigger. you can live in a happy world of SOIC, 24mil traces, and 0603 components that can go at the same pitch as soic legs
[13:30] <eroomde> it's just nice and simple
[13:30] <eroomde> no globalisation, no supermarkets
[13:31] <eroomde> just rearing the land
[13:31] <eroomde> tending to the flock
[13:31] <eroomde> looking forward to the first of the season's apples
[13:31] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:31] <craag> mattbrejza: A fair few electronics phds coming through, but mainly locals being referred to us from a few clubs outside southampton.
[13:32] <craag> It's far easier for us to book a room for training/exam, than them to hire a venue.
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[13:32] <mattbrejza> yea i guess space isnt an issue like it can be elsewhere
[13:33] <craag> Apart from shack space :/
[13:33] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, venue hire is the biggest part of the cost of running a course and exam...
[13:33] <craag> grrr
[13:33] <mattbrejza> so someone has all the club gear and has to transport it every week?
[13:34] <craag> mattbrejza: yes, but we don't run a station most weeks because it's a real pain
[13:34] <LazyLeopard> ...or however often the club meets, yeah.
[13:34] <craag> also susu stroage have already cost us in broken antennas.
[13:34] <mattbrejza> lol susu storage if youve been in the 'cage' room recently (bottom floor)
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[13:37] <craag> I haven't...?
[13:37] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[13:39] <mattbrejza> well theyve had issues with leaking pipes
[13:39] <craag> hahaha
[13:39] <mattbrejza> its next to the marshal arts room
[13:39] <mattbrejza> and you might have heard what happend to that a few times
[13:40] <mattbrejza> oh martial arts :P
[13:40] <craag> :P
[13:40] <mattbrejza> silly english
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[13:58] <Upu> ping ve6ts
[13:58] <eroomde> overheard in the office (not on main channel as villages get easily offended by naughty words), to Open Office, "This is why LaTeX was invented, you fucking Fuck!"
[13:58] <eroomde> oh god wrong channel
[13:58] <Upu> hah
[13:59] <Upu> unping ve6ts sorry if you know any HAMs in Nova Scotia ping me :)
[13:59] <eroomde> sorry to any villagers in here
[14:00] <Laurenceb> what the heck is a villager?
[14:02] <eroomde> generic term for the easily offended
[14:02] <eroomde> like a happless character in The Archers
[14:02] <Upu> anyone got any contacts in Nova Scotia ?
[14:02] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: I do hope that we're not talking about Cages 6-9?
[14:02] <eroomde> my theatre-ey friends use the term for when the audience is people whove come up from the home counies for dinner-and-a-show and the cosmopolitan humour is a bit lost on them
[14:03] <mattbrejza> cm13g09: yep
[14:03] <mattbrejza> those ones
[14:03] <eroomde> or don't like the bits about homosexuality
[14:03] <eroomde> or whatever
[14:04] <Laurenceb> i c
[14:05] <gonzo__> as have heard refered to as being 'old world values'
[14:06] <eroomde> how you describe it is presumably a function of whichever world you're in
[14:08] Action: Laurenceb is waiting for his lipo cells to charge
[14:08] <Laurenceb> funtimes
[14:08] <Laurenceb> at 1/3C :-S
[14:08] <gonzo__> and a age thing.
[14:09] <gonzo__> Some people age to be less reactionary than in their youth. Some just become grumpy opinionalted old men.
[14:09] <eroomde> time and places are the same thing
[14:09] <eroomde> The Past is a Foreign Country, etc
[14:10] <gonzo__> the same stuff just goes around and around
[14:27] <cm13g09> just heard on local radio: "Confucious say: Man with no grass in garden, look forlorn" (GROAN)
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: /me is annoyed that a123 cells aren't available.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: it would be really nice to be able to charge at 10C
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[14:45] <LeoBodnar> open source is mad horrible hairy crap specifically when applied to such an open-ended unrestricted environment as *nix
[14:46] <LeoBodnar> Just when you set off to do something you are forced to spend 4 hours chasing dark corners where somebody could have tucked away their code
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[14:46] <SpeedEvil> Closed source is much better, as you can then phone the vendor, who will ignore you.
[14:47] <LeoBodnar> MacBook:libpng-1.6.6 lbodnar$ libpng-config --version -> 1.6.6
[14:47] <LeoBodnar> configure: error: Package requirements (libpng >= 1.2.8) were not met: No package 'libpng' found
[14:47] <LeoBodnar> Now Pile of steaming turd
[14:47] <craag> LeoBodnar: I seem to recall that libpng 1.2 is a special version
[14:47] <craag> completely different api
[14:48] <craag> I recall an app recently required >1.2.8 and <=1.2.12
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> Apple please take over and bring me restricted non-democratic communist working environment where I can compile something useful
[14:48] <adamgreig> ha ha
[14:48] <mattbrejza> another reason why eroomde 's analogue land is happier
[14:48] <adamgreig> try compiling something on apple
[14:48] <adamgreig> much worse
[14:48] <mattbrejza> none of this crap to put up with
[14:49] <LeoBodnar> I am on Apple now and it worked for everything so far
[14:49] <LeoBodnar> But here comes dl-fldigi...
[14:49] Action: SpeedEvil boggles at bitcoin about to hit $1K. (998 max so far)
[14:49] <adamgreig> insane huh
[14:50] <adamgreig> really regret selling my 10BTC for $30, lol
[14:50] Action: SpeedEvil wishes to be able to send himself a message to 2009 'buy 50 quids worth of bitcoin'
[14:50] <adamgreig> not as much as I regret not going through with buying £1000 of them in 09
[14:50] <adamgreig> I so nearly did!
[14:50] <craag> SpeedEvil: my housemate just bought 2 new graphics card
[14:50] <adamgreig> it was that or GOOG and I got GOOG
[14:50] <craag> Free heating
[14:50] <adamgreig> craag: "free" :P
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> craag: For bitcoin - no way
[14:50] <mattbrejza> wonder how easy a miner is to run on the gpu nodes on the cluster...
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> craag: For litecoin - maybe
[14:50] <craag> SpeedEvil: Yeah I think he does litecoin, not sure exactly.
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of free heating.
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.orionairsales.co.uk/mitsubishi-heavy-industries-air-conditioning-srk20zjx-s-28-kw--9000-btu-hyper-inverter-heat-pump-220-p.asp
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> I'm trying to find an installation manual for that - but 5.71 COP!
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> - 1kW gets you 5.7kW of heat
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> Significantly cheaper than gas.
[14:52] <LeoBodnar> So does dl-fldigi source require virgin freshly installed OS X now?
[14:52] <mattbrejza> so it just moves heat from outside to inside? even if outside is colder?
[14:52] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: air source?
[14:53] <mattbrejza> well i guess thats the same as a fridge
[14:53] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: well if outside is hotter then it's kind of easy to move the heat in....
[14:53] <adamgreig> and usually not what you want to do ;)
[14:53] <mattbrejza> indee
[14:53] <mattbrejza> d
[14:53] <craag> LeoBodnar: I think you have to sacrifice at least 3 virgins ;)
[14:53] <mattbrejza> just me being silly...
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> I can do that
[14:53] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: it's awful. took me a few hours or something I think
[14:54] <BrainDamage> you'll have no problem finding those in the nix community
[14:54] <adamgreig> building it from source on os x is just painful
[14:54] <ullas> Hi.. So I was reading about the process of sending/acquiring the GPS signals.. Does it work only upto a certain altitude?
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yes.
[14:54] <LeoBodnar> I will keep trying
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: Amusingly some swimming pool heatpumps do that. They spec 'COP 4' - when they mean 'if it's 30C out and 25C in your pool, it takes 1kW to move 4kW of heat'
[14:55] <adamgreig> lol
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> ullas: No
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> ullas: But some GPS receivers will lock up due to bugs at altitude
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> ullas: GPS will work fine on the moon (with a small antenna)
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> (Dilution of precision admittedly sucks, but hey - no ionosphere)
[14:56] <ullas> SpeedEvil: bugs at altitude?
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> ullas: The GPS receivers misimplement the limit on what GPSs can be sold. The limit is you can't produce a position if going over 1000 knots at 60000 feet.
[14:57] <SIbot> In real units: 60000 ft = 18 km
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> ullas: The buggy ones do 'OR' not 'AND'
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> So catch >60000feet and ~0 knots
[14:58] <SIbot> In real units: 60000 ft = 18 km
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> SIbot: What about the knots!
[14:59] <craag> nobody uses knots
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> (also - 60000 feet is the legal limit - not 18km)
[14:59] <SIbot> In real units: 60000 ft = 18 km
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> I have 2 feet.
[14:59] <SIbot> In real units: 2 ft = 0.61 m
[15:01] <ullas> SpeedEvil: Oh. Ok. Thanks!
[15:01] <mattbrejza> bitcoin high at $1030 now
[15:01] <adamgreig> bid or ask?
[15:02] <ve6ts> how could a GPS work on the moon, the GPS sats are between earth and the moon?
[15:02] <mattbrejza> not sure
[15:02] <mattbrejza> still a bitcoin n00b
[15:02] <ve6ts> i thought they had directional antennas pointing at earth?
[15:02] <mattbrejza> the ones at the other side of the earth are pointing at you
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[15:04] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: as in, is that the price people are offering to pay to buy a bitcoin, or the price people are offering to sell their bitcoins at?
[15:04] <mattbrejza> yea i realise the difference, but dont know how to find out which price its being quoted at me
[15:05] <adamgreig> oh right
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> ve6ts: yeah - as mentioned above - there is some overspill from satellites just coming over the horizon of earth from your perspective. It would be lovely if you could use the full diameter of the GPS constellation - 80000km - as that would improve the geometrical solution - but I doubt there are very significant emissions much off 'beam'
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: stay that way
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> bitcoins: find yourself here http://www.thereformedbroker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/stages_bubble.png
[15:14] <adamgreig> that diagram was being shown around in '09
[15:14] <adamgreig> and again in '11
[15:14] <mattbrejza> well i have some bitcoin as my office pc has been mining this past year
[15:14] <mattbrejza> so its just a case of wondering when to sell
[15:14] <mattbrejza> and then working out how :P
[15:14] <mattbrejza> i dont intend to buy any
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> It's proven right ever since Isaac Newton lost all his money in South Sea Company bubble
[15:15] <mattbrejza> so we at enthusiasm atm?
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> s/all /a lot of/
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> I reckon "greed"
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> Definitely above long term average
[15:17] <adamgreig> except it's done this like three times already
[15:17] <eroomde> there was a nice comment on an NYTime article about another valley tech bubble
[15:17] <eroomde> 'If the NYTimes is right about this one, they'll have successfully predicted eight of the last two bursts.'
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> For truly speculative investment where you can afford to lose the lot - it's not that bad an idea.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> If you're quite happy with the gamble that it may rise 10* or fall 10*
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[15:28] <rafaelf> hi! is there anyone here that could name the prediction method used in this site??
[15:28] <eroomde> it doesn't really have a name
[15:28] <eroomde> the CUSF predictor?
[15:29] <eroomde> the 'method' is forward-euler
[15:30] <rafaelf> oh ok, thank you very much eroomde
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[15:31] <eroomde> it is available standalone at habhub.org/predict
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[15:41] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[15:51] <fsphil> it would be rather cool if the same team recovered pava if it manages to crosses the atlantic :)
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[16:26] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[16:32] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[16:39] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[16:41] <cm13g09> mfa298: -> PM
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[16:53] <W6YRA> arko: at station now. presumably you saw me configure the dl-fldigi last night. rig is on & yagis pointed
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[17:09] <DL7AD_> evening
[17:10] <DL1SGP> nabend sven
[17:10] <DL7AD_> juten abend felix
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[17:13] <f5vnf> \nick f5vnf_
[17:13] <eroomde> there is a lot of fail
[17:13] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[17:13] Nick change: f5vnf -> f5vnf_
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[17:24] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[17:25] <arko> W6YRA: filling the balloon now
[17:25] <arko> almost ready
[17:26] <arko> UpuWork: yo
[17:26] <arko> i dont see the payload on spacenear
[17:26] <arko> i think packets are going
[17:26] <arko> yeah
[17:26] <arko> good packets
[17:26] <arko> sending
[17:26] <eroomde> is that you?
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[17:27] blakange1 (~blakangel@apollo.corbe.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:27] <blakange1> hey guys we are about to launch habexpico2
[17:27] DL7AD_ (~quassel@p57BB88F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[17:27] <Upu> why isn't it appearing on the map
[17:27] <blakange1> not sure
[17:27] <Upu> "_fix_invalid": true,
[17:27] <blakange1> my dl-fldigi says uploaded successfully
[17:28] <blakange1> ?
[17:28] <arko> huh
[17:28] <arko> i got good sats
[17:28] <Upu> checking
[17:28] <arko> 7
[17:29] <Upu> checking
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[17:30] <arko> thank you sir
[17:30] <Upu> I've pinged the people who can look into
[17:30] <Upu> its getting marked as an invalid fix
[17:30] <Upu> but not sure why
[17:31] <Upu> as it looks ok
[17:31] <Upu> are you holding to launch ?
[17:31] stealth_ (4c5a81c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.90.129.197) joined #highaltitude.
[17:31] <eroomde> not very stealthy is it
[17:31] <blakange1> we're launching in next 15 mins
[17:31] <stealth_> right on time as always
[17:31] <blakange1> balloon almost full
[17:32] <stealth_> I wos wondering why I didn't see any movement on the tracker site
[17:32] <blakange1> yea my site isn't showing up yet
[17:32] <blakange1> i guess maybe caues of invalid fix
[17:33] <W6YRA> given terrain, I don't expect to hear it until 2400ft MSL (1190 AGL @ launch site)
[17:33] <SIbot> In real units: 2400 ft = 732 m
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[17:33] <W6YRA> any guess as to ascent rate?
[17:34] Nick change: ReadError_ -> ReadError
[17:34] <Upu> being looked at now arko
[17:35] <blakange1> launch delay
[17:35] <blakange1> our helium tank is empty
[17:35] <blakange1> the gas supply ripped us off!
[17:37] <Upu> upload something pls arko
[17:39] <Upu> blakange1/ arko can you confirm you're still uploading data ?
[17:43] <Upu> adamgreig has fixed it you need to upload something
[17:43] <Upu> I need to afk for a few
[17:43] <Upu> cheers
[17:44] <LeoBodnar> Is there enough He to float?
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[17:49] <W6YRA> any other RTTY signals in the area on 70cm we can test our setup with?
[17:54] <LeoBodnar> The whole day wasted trying to make dl-fldigi source eat libpng installed now in almost any directory in the visible filsystem
[17:54] <LeoBodnar> No f* way: configure: error: Package requirements (libpng >= 1.2.8) were not met: No package 'libpng' found
[17:56] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: do you have the include files for libpng (png.h I think).
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> It almost rivals MULTIPSK in its horrific uselessness
[17:56] <mfa298> I'm not sure what MacOS does, but for linux the include files are often in a different package that's not installed by default
[17:56] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: you probably need to specifically tell configure where to look
[17:56] <bertrik> yeah, the XXX-dev packages
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> told it where to find libs and includes
[17:56] <adamgreig> ./configure --with-libpng=/path/to/png
[17:57] <adamgreig> lol
[17:57] <adamgreig> maybe when I'm home I can frob my setup
[17:57] <adamgreig> I have it compiling
[17:57] <adamgreig> but it was hours of pain including libpng rubbishness
[17:57] <LeoBodnar> You'd save me another day and maybe a night adamgreig
[17:57] <LeoBodnar> Appreciate it!
[17:57] <adamgreig> no promises, it built the current release but it was a while ago :P
[17:58] <LeoBodnar> I have suffered enough so probably qualify for some help :D
[17:58] <mfa298> You could always install Linux on the mac!
[17:59] <LeoBodnar> Can you cross-compile under Linux?
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> --with-libpng= no joy
[18:01] <mfa298> Not sure if you can cross-compile mac software from linux.
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[18:08] <Laurenceb> anyone here understand linux timestamping?
[18:08] <Laurenceb> im having tons of issues
[18:08] <adamgreig> lol
[18:08] <Laurenceb> fat32 timestamps are offset by an hour
[18:08] <adamgreig> what kind of timestamping?
[18:09] <adamgreig> lol
[18:09] <adamgreig> shrug, sorry
[18:09] <Laurenceb> ive set my location and stuff
[18:09] <Laurenceb> hwclock is correct
[18:09] <Laurenceb> yet if i write a fat32 file the timestamp is an hour in the future
[18:09] <adamgreig> mysterious
[18:09] <adamgreig> maybe your bios clock is wrong
[18:10] <adamgreig> or something else screwy
[18:10] <Laurenceb> and stuff from my windows maxhine looks like its an hour in the past
[18:10] <adamgreig> do you dual boot on this machine?
[18:10] <Laurenceb> no
[18:10] <adamgreig> omg chrome just crashed. no. no. nooo.
[18:10] <adamgreig> ughugh
[18:10] <Laurenceb> :-/
[18:10] <mfa298> timezone issue maybe, something confused with daylight savings
[18:11] <Laurenceb> mfa298: i tried hwclock
[18:11] <Laurenceb> all looks correct
[18:11] <Laurenceb> i set the ubuntu location..
[18:11] <Laurenceb> but yeah surely there should be some location info for fat32 timezones
[18:11] <Laurenceb> maybe thats hozed
[18:12] <mfa298> pass, I don't tend to use Fat32 anywhere
[18:12] <Laurenceb> im only using it for fatfs based datalogging
[18:12] <adamgreig> don't think fat uses timezones
[18:12] <adamgreig> think it's just utc? or just local? not sure
[18:12] <Laurenceb> local aiui
[18:13] <Laurenceb> so i guess it depends on the system
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[18:13] <Laurenceb> as to how it is implemented
[18:14] <mfa298> I wonder if the OS still thinks it's in BST (on linux I think the hardware clock usually stays on utc all the time)
[18:14] <Laurenceb> interesting
[18:15] <Laurenceb> would explain the issue
[18:15] <Laurenceb> im trying to rule out a bug in fatfs
[18:15] <Laurenceb> it doesnt look like fatfs, but i want to see it work on windows and linux
[18:15] <mfa298> although I'd expect you to still see GMT+1 in logs etc. if that was the case.
[18:15] <W6YRA> arko: blakange1: scrub for the day? reschedule?
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[18:19] <Laurenceb> lol
[18:20] <Laurenceb> yeah its my pc
[18:20] <Laurenceb> i just tried a usb thumb drive and its an hour in the past
[18:20] <W6YRA> is there a sound file online for this transmitter?
[18:21] <W6YRA> so we can test our fldigi
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[18:21] <mfa298> W6YRA: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide#background
[18:22] <mfa298> on that link search for mp3 and you should find a couple of clips
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[18:28] <blakange1> sup
[18:28] <craag> blakange1: How's it looking?
[18:29] <blakange1> just got helium
[18:29] <blakange1> filling balloon
[18:29] <blakange1> nothing showing up on spacenear tracker yet
[18:30] <craag> are you uploading?
[18:30] <blakange1> we are restarting payload now
[18:30] <blakange1> we should know in a few if it pops up
[18:30] <craag> I'm watching the habitat log and there's no uploads coming in.
[18:31] <W6YRA> mfa298: neither of those look like RTTY50/450 7N2 though
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[18:32] <craag> blakange1: You're uploading now.. waiting for gps lock
[18:33] <blakange1> should start coming in a min
[18:33] <blakange1> yep
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[18:34] <fsphil> always a worrying moment, waiting for a lock just before launch
[18:34] <fsphil> (I almost typed lick there .. that would also be worrying)
[18:34] <blakange1> we are resetting payload, no gps lock
[18:34] <fsphil> give it time
[18:34] <mfa298> W6YRA: it should be 50baud, although on the one I'm trying it looks nearer to 425 shift
[18:34] <fsphil> can take a while
[18:34] <blakange1> oh there it goes
[18:34] <craag> blakange1: boom you're on the map!
[18:35] <fsphil> result!
[18:35] <blakange1> woot
[18:35] <blakange1> thx guys
[18:37] <mfa298> W6YRA: those clips look to be 8n1 (or 8n2, the stop bits don't really make a difference for rx)
[18:37] <fsphil> is the launch being streamed?
[18:37] <W6YRA> mfa298: thanks I'll use that info to check if we have trouble. right now we're configured for pico2 on the air
[18:38] <blakange1> no we're streaming
[18:38] <fsphil> not?
[18:38] <blakange1> err
[18:38] <blakange1> we are gonna hvae someone stream now
[18:38] nerdgeek (75c0a61f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.117.192.166.31) joined #highaltitude.
[18:38] <fsphil> ah
[18:38] <blakange1> hold on they're settin up
[18:38] DarkCow (~DarkCow@cpc22-acto3-2-0-cust128.4-2.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:38] <DL1SGP> :D great
[18:39] <nerdgeek> hi guys......i need to measure the variation in the speed of sound at high altitudes, which would also give a measure of the temperature variation at different layers in the atmosphere.
[18:39] <nerdgeek> can anyone give me technical details ?
[18:39] <nerdgeek> using raspberry pi
[18:39] <blakange1> send up an ipod to play mp3's
[18:40] <arko> ok getting ready to launch
[18:40] <mfa298> nerdgeek: was it you asking about it the other day ?
[18:41] <nerdgeek> when?
[18:41] <arko> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[18:41] <arko> launching in a few mins
[18:41] <blakange1> http://ustre.am/CZsp
[18:41] <mfa298> nerdgeek: probably not then, there was some discussion about measuring speed of sound yesterday I think.
[18:42] <craag> nerdgeek: Check the irc logs from yesterday: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20131126.html
[18:42] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ was heared in italy....
[18:42] <mfa298> nerdgeek: it might be worth reading through some of what was said yesterday at around 13:48 http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20131126.html
[18:43] <DL7AD> why is it already deleted from the map?
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[18:43] <craag> DL7AD: Another flight is going on.
[18:45] <DL7AD> which flight?
[18:45] <craag> DL7AD: arko is launching HABEXpico2
[18:45] <Upu> SP3 hadn't been heard for 24 hours
[18:45] <DL7AD> craag: floater?
[18:46] <blakange1> HABEXpico2 best HABEX
[18:46] <blakange1> :)
[18:46] <DL7AD> Upu: it was heared 3 hours ago in turin
[18:46] <Upu> wasn't uploaded ?
[18:46] <fsphil> if someone decodes it in dl-fldigi, it'll reappear :)
[18:46] <DL7AD> Upu: he did not know how to decode it because hes running a websdr only.
[18:47] <W6YRA> I think we just heard you, surprisingly
[18:47] <craag> DL7AD: Ok.. so get him to send a recording to someone who can run it through dl-fldigi
[18:47] <Upu> trouble is spacenear.us is running like a dog at the moment (thanks Google) so I can't leave stuff on there indefinetly
[18:47] <DL7AD> craag: he did not make an audio record
[18:48] <daveake> I see an Arko
[18:48] <fsphil> 5 points
[18:48] <fsphil> in his native habitat
[18:48] <fsphil> wait, there's cloud!
[18:48] <DL7AD> Upu: im wondering spacenear isnt running that fast. my map (contact db) is good in performance.
[18:48] <mfa298> if a hab transmits a signal in a forest and no ones there to decode it does it make a sounds ?...
[18:49] <Upu> it was fine till Google broke and then subsequently fixed API2
[18:49] <craag> fsphil: I call fake, must be filmed on a soundstage in kent
[18:49] <Upu> it needs redoing in API3
[18:49] <fsphil> lol
[18:49] <daveake> The only one wearing shorts. He must be the USA version of eroomde
[18:49] <fsphil> hah
[18:49] <fsphil> I'm surprised someone in CA isn't wearing shorts
[18:49] <DL7AD> Upu: but google cant be the reason for it when mine is running fast
[18:49] <craag> DL7AD: Did you write for api v3
[18:49] <blakange1> heh
[18:49] <craag> ?
[18:49] <blakange1> it was chilly this morning
[18:49] <DL7AD> craag: yep
[18:50] <craag> DL7AD: There you are then, spacenear was written for apiv2
[18:50] <fsphil> lol, camera womon getting excited
[18:50] <fsphil> woman*
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> What is the sound of single bit RTTY transmitting?
[18:51] <bertrik> beeeeeeeeeeeep
[18:51] <DL7AD> craag: i was looking on the spacenear github repository. but theres only an old backup
[18:51] <Upu> wouldn't be the first time someone had decoded via a ustream
[18:51] <craag> DL7AD: Yeah, the code is a real mess, so is not open-source.
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[18:52] <DL7AD> craag: rofl
[18:52] <fsphil> getting dizzy
[18:52] <DL7AD> craag: yeah spaghetthi like
[18:52] <DL7AD> :D
[18:53] <craag> DL7AD: I guess so! (I haven't got access)
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[18:53] <DL7AD> so my final question is, how i can get access to improve it?
[18:54] <arko> here we go!!
[18:54] <arko> http://ustre.am/CZsp
[18:54] <craag> DL7AD: Not one I can answer, I've been asking for access for a while.
[18:54] <blakange1> launch imminent
[18:54] <fsphil> I must be lagging behind
[18:55] <blakange1> little wind gust
[18:55] <DL7AD> arko: what time do you have?
[18:55] <blakange1> 11:55
[18:55] <fsphil> hold onnn!
[18:56] <craag> Erm I thought this was a pico? :P
[18:56] <x-f> launch it now, ad begins in 30 seconds!
[18:56] <craag> Oh, american pci
[18:56] <craag> *pico
[18:56] <fsphil> yes, no vertical video
[18:56] <mfa298> the payload is smaller than the balloon, therefore pico :P
[18:56] <fsphil> nooo, stream cut out
[18:56] <fsphil> when it came back the balloon was gone
[18:56] <Upu> haha
[18:56] <daveake> wooo
[18:56] <Upu> ustream sucks so badly
[18:57] <fsphil> it so does
[18:57] <Upu> its up
[18:57] <mfa298> needs more batc
[18:57] <W6YRA> got it!
[18:57] <daveake> sound was at "6" when it launched on the video
[18:57] <DL7AD> off :(
[18:57] <bertrik> daveake: same here :)
[18:58] <W6YRA> i think i got it before the line of sight altitude too!@
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[18:58] <DL1SGP> lovely launch, thanks for the stream
[19:00] <x-f> temperature is in fahreinheit?
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[19:01] <daveake> Needs a SiBot
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[19:05] <x-f> it was up to +270
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[19:06] <arko> W6YRA: NICE WORK!
[19:06] <arko> dude
[19:06] <arko> awesome
[19:07] <blakange1> man my decodes are getting spotty
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[19:07] <W6YRA> i dropped a few since i tweaked our RX freq to get it in the center in case it drifts
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[19:08] <W6YRA> i don't have dl-fldigi doing rigctrl
[19:08] <W6YRA> (does it do rotctrl?)
[19:08] <blakange1> it supports a bunch of rig control stuff i think
[19:08] <blakange1> ive never used it
[19:08] <x-f> pressure is negative, what system is this?
[19:09] <W6YRA> yeah it'd be nice if it pointed my yagis for me
[19:09] <blakange1> hehe
[19:09] <W6YRA> arko: having trouble? i haven't seen you on the RX list until just now
[19:11] <blakange1> he's good i think
[19:11] <mfa298> W6YRA: there's rig control from dl-fldigi which seems to work, there's also habrotate which can interface with pstrotator (https://github.com/thecraag/habrotate)
[19:11] <arko> W6YRA: nope
[19:11] <arko> im N6ARA
[19:11] <arko> huh
[19:11] <arko> weird
[19:12] <arko> im having great decodes
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[19:12] <nerdgeek> mfa298: r u crzy
[19:12] <arko> W6YRA: no idea
[19:12] <arko> im getting great packets
[19:12] <arko> no red
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[19:13] <mfa298> nerdgeek: you might need to expand on that (I don't think I'm crazy. The men in white coats havn't arrived for me yet!)
[19:13] <craag> he's gone
[19:14] <craag> Something tells me he was looking for something more mickey-mouse than phase measurement
[19:16] <x-f> the correct answer would be "no, my mom had me tested"
[19:17] <W6YRA> hah, going back the first frame we got was #105 which said 789m, and I guessed we'd pick it up no sooner than 731m
[19:17] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488ADA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:17] <mfa298> I have wondered if you could do something using a reasonably high rate video with a buzzer and led. Although I think that would need a larger distance than is really managable on a hab
[19:17] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Lunar_Lander
[19:17] <W6YRA> partial frame of 104 that said 709m
[19:18] <W6YRA> this is fun
[19:18] <mfa298> have buzzer and led on the same gpio, and count the number of frames between seeing the light come on and hearing the sound.
[19:18] <x-f> -261.0 - is the decimal point not in the right place?
[19:19] <ve6ts> i saw it drop from -104C i think
[19:19] <x-f> but pressure..?
[19:19] <ve6ts> something might be wrong with the encoding
[19:19] <W6YRA> frequecy has drifted up about 500hz already. typical?
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Below absolute zero
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> might be inversion
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[19:20] <KK6ENG> But you expect temperature to fall with altitude, so it doesn't seem like it is inverted.
[19:21] <KK6ENG> It seems like a correct 'slope' but just a wrong offset?
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> I'll get my coat
[19:22] <DL1SGP> heh Lo
[19:22] <DL1SGP> LeoBodnar:
[19:22] <DL1SGP> dammit
[19:22] <DL1SGP> coffee needed
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[19:22] <LeoBodnar> yo James!
[19:23] <jcoxon> hey
[19:23] <nats`> wooohhh -353°C
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[19:23] <nats`> we frozen hell !
[19:23] <nats`> mouhahahahaha
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> What do you need to sacrifice to make dl-fldigi to compile on OS X?
[19:23] <tjanos> DL7AD Sven, here is a NOAA prediction, started at 19 UTC from Torino. It is clear the direction pointed to France,s Rivierra:
[19:23] <nats`> LeoBodnar a virgin
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> It refuses to find libpng
[19:23] <nats`> but that's pretty rare nowadays :p
[19:23] <tjanos> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/198891_trj001.gif
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> run out of them, none in stock
[19:24] <KK6ENG> LeoBodnar: The macbook.
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> I have three
[19:24] <nats`> LeoBodnar install a vm :D
[19:24] <nats`> and put a linux on it
[19:24] <DL7AD> tjanos: ummm yes.... i'm not going to chase it anymore.
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> I need OS X executable
[19:25] <nats`> what are the compile error ?
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> configure: error: Package requirements (libpng >= 1.2.8) were not met: No package 'libpng' found
[19:26] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, what version of osx?
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> 10.6.8
[19:26] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-osx
[19:26] <fsphil> spacenear doesn't seem to want to show me the info boxes
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Have 10.7 and 10.8 around
[19:27] <fsphil> oh there we go, on the fifth refresh
[19:27] <nats`> LeoBodnar usually it's a problem in the lib name
[19:27] <nats`> like renaming prout.so in prout.1.so
[19:27] <nats`> (better linking in fact)
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[19:28] <Miek_> LeoBodnar: does it use pkg-config on OSX?
[19:28] <nats`> LeoBodnar you have a libpng-config ?
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[19:29] <LeoBodnar> MacBook:dl-fldigi lbodnar$ libpng-config --version
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> 1.6.6
[19:29] <nats`> if yes you need to modify your ldflags according to libpng-config --L
[19:29] <anerDev> hi guys
[19:29] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, have you copy'd the pkg.m4?
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> yes, all steps went fine but ./configure bombs out with unable to find libpng
[19:30] <nats`> it doesnt find the correct ldflags I think
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> installed new libpng from here: http://mac-dev-env.patrickbougie.com/libpng/
[19:31] <Miek_> what does 'pkg-config --modversion libpng' give?
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> Package libpng was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `libpng.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'libpng' found
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> let me try that
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/src/libpng-1.6.6
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> same fail
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[19:34] <LeoBodnar> same with trailing slash
[19:34] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, hunt down libpng.pc
[19:34] <jcoxon> and copy it to /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
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[19:36] <jcoxon> arko, need a receiver other side of the mountains
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> woohooo! cp libpng.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> i love you guys
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> But I wont' get today back! :D
[19:36] <Miek_> hah
[19:37] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, welcome to compiling dl-fldigi on os x
[19:37] <jcoxon> many days lost
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> please update the wiki!
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> I know I will do it again
[19:38] <nats`> don't forget to update the .pc if you install a newer libpng :)
[19:38] <fsphil> habex going supersonic
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> OK, I will try to remember not to forget
[19:39] <Miek_> there's probably a better way by adding the directory to the search path
[19:39] <fsphil> arko: padding error?
[19:40] <KK6ENG> What just happened to the ground track?
[19:40] <KK6ENG> Was the payload an teleporter?
[19:40] <fsphil> a well known bug
[19:41] <KK6ENG> Please explain...
[19:41] <fsphil> -118.96902
[19:41] <fsphil> should be
[19:41] <fsphil> -118.096902
[19:41] <fsphil> the bit that formats it isn't padding it to the correct number of digits
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[19:42] <x-f> KK6ENG, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing - useful reading material :)
[19:42] <fsphil> it'll return to normal once the longitude goes below -118.0
[19:42] <KK6ENG> x-f: Thanks. I'll check it out.
[19:42] <fsphil> or above
[19:43] <W6YRA> sorry for all the drops. somehow the rtty turns to garbage whenever i tried hamlib rigctl
[19:43] <W6YRA> and i'm kinda glad it doesn't have rotctrl, because it would have slewed west
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[19:45] <x-f> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/16e14cc7ac247fdaddd34dea02d6b42d#g/temperature,altitude,pressure
[19:47] <W6YRA> seem to be getting some pretty big frequency changes
[19:47] <W6YRA> more impulsive than drifts
[19:48] <arko> nice work dude
[19:49] <arko> we were cleaning up the launch site
[19:50] <arko> gonna get in a car
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[19:52] <LeoBodnar> great climb arko !
[19:53] <KK6ENG> Is there an expected elevation at burst?
[19:55] <KK6ENG> 32.5km got it. Thanks.
[19:56] <jcoxon> need more listeners!
[19:56] <malgar> go go!
[19:56] <KK6ENG> Is the radio wired to the same battery as another payload? We're trying to figure out these sharp breaks in the frequency.
[19:57] <jcoxon> could be the GPS
[19:58] <KK6ENG> Is anyone else getting that?
[19:58] <jcoxon> sometimes they can over draw and therefore cause the freq to shift
[19:59] <KK6ENG> I just want to make sure someone else is reporting the frequency jumps so it's not on our Rx side.
[19:59] <fsphil> normal longitude services has been resumed :)
[19:59] <jcoxon> KK6ENG, where are you listening from?
[19:59] <KK6ENG> W6YRA at UCLA
[19:59] <jcoxon> oh right cool
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[20:00] <jcoxon> sadly no local globaltuners i can listen through
[20:00] <KK6ENG> Yeah, NX1U is also on here as W6YRA.
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[20:02] <jcoxon> KK6ENG, really cool that we have got some US flights on spacenear.us
[20:02] <jcoxon> usually it only WB8ELK who makes use of it
[20:03] <fsphil> indeed
[20:05] <KK6ENG> jcoxon: Yeah, we're really happy to be able to listen in and report.
[20:06] <jcoxon> :-D
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[20:11] <W6YRA> just lost signal
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[20:12] <fsphil> suddenly?
[20:12] <jcoxon> oh no
[20:13] <KK6ENG> Suddenly
[20:13] <KK6ENG> Anyone else still have i?
[20:13] <KK6ENG> *it?
[20:13] <fsphil> the last point had 0.5m/s ascent
[20:13] <fsphil> I wonder if it's burst
[20:13] <KK6ENG> We can still hit APRS, so I don't think that's on our side.
[20:14] <KK6ENG> It would have been a really early burst (24 km vs 34?)
[20:14] <fsphil> it's not unheard of
[20:16] <KK6ENG> The radio shouldn't have died though, unless it took a heavy shock.
[20:16] <KK6ENG> During burst that is.
[20:16] <KK6ENG> It could have died for other reasons.
[20:16] <jcoxon> PBC
[20:16] <KK6ENG> We're checking our antennas
[20:16] <jcoxon> post burst chaos
[20:16] <fsphil> battery could have popped out
[20:16] <fsphil> or some connection somewhere
[20:17] <jcoxon> its pretty crazy when the balloons burst
[20:17] <jcoxon> there are great videos on youtube of it
[20:18] <fsphil> it may yet come back
[20:20] <KK6ENG> We're not getting anything on +-50 kHz. Is there a default frequency it may have reset to?
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[20:21] <fsphil> don't thin kso
[20:22] <craag> Keep watching the freq it was on for any sign of it would be best I think
[20:22] <craag> In case it's antenna damage or similar.
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[20:24] <KK6ENG> We're pretty sure it's not us (W6YRA)
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[20:28] <jcoxon> bbl
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[20:29] <KK6ENG> We might still have a carrier around 434.5
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[20:30] <KK6ENG> It's hard to tell, but there is fairly continuous line in the waterfall
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[20:39] <tjanoss> Hello, Peter, latod a habex ballont? gyorsan kimult
[20:40] <ak4rp> szia! nem, nem figyeltem.
[20:40] <ak4rp> pedig jó irányba indult!
[20:41] <ak4rp> még pár ezer mérföldet kellett volna megtennie :)
[20:41] <Hiena> :)))
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[20:41] <tjanoss> kb 50 percig repult
[20:41] <tjanoss> Hiena, te ki vagy?
[20:42] <ak4rp> de felment 25 ezerre, ez nem floater akart lenni, vagy igen?
[20:42] <tjanoss> errol nem volt szo, lehet, hogy csat tultoltottek
[20:42] <tjanoss> csak
[20:42] <Hiena> Egy holdkoros Mocsarfalvabol.
[20:43] <tjanoss> viszont kb mafel oraja volt egy hiradas, hogy a lengyel ballont websr-el hallottak valahol torinobol
[20:43] <ak4rp> kéne ide is pár lelkes lengyel vendégmunkás
[20:43] <KK6ENG> fsphil: I moved the rotors off and back on again. The carrier looking line disappeared then reappeared, so that might be it still.
[20:43] <tjanoss> de persze nem tuydtak dekodolni
[20:43] <fsphil> could be an antenna fault
[20:43] <tjanoss> Mocsarfalva? az is az eu-ban ven?
[20:44] <tjanoss> es hianak lakjak?
[20:44] <KK6ENG> fsphil: We were thinking modulator fault, where the radio is still Tx'ing, but it's not getting audio/data to Tx, so you only get a carrier.
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[20:45] <craag> KK6ENG: Wouldn't be the first payload that's had that issue.
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> HABEXpico2 comms check!
[20:45] <Hiena> Jahm, meg nadvagok. ;) De, hogy HAB is legyen, aruljatok el, hogyan kapott az Idokepes csapat repulesi engedelyt?
[20:45] <craag> Now it's time to test arko's radio DF skillz!
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> That was exactly what happened to me on my first flight
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> CW just before burst
[20:46] <tjanoss> biztos jo kapcsolataik vannak meteos foemberekkel
[20:47] <Hiena> En meg rongyosra levelezem magam a Leguggyel.
[20:47] <KK6ENG> craag: Are you with Arko at Cal Poly Pomona?
[20:47] <tjanoss> egy ilyen eskuvoi ballonhoz is kell levelezni?
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> Chaps, I had lovely time in Budapest recently.
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[20:49] <Hiena> tjanoss: Elmeletileg igen, leven atmegy a korlatozott legteren is.
[20:50] <Hiena> tjanoss: Es onnatol radarprizma+transzponder a minimum kovetelmeny.
[20:51] <ak4rp> Hiena: even for the smallest balloon and payload?
[20:51] <Hiena> Egy 200 dekas habszivacs is le tud hozni egy 737-est ha jokor, jo helyen van.
[20:52] <Hiena> ak4rp: Yes. The hungarian regulation is quite strict about the flight in the controlled airspace.
[20:52] <ak4rp> Hiena: no sensible minimum density or whatever requirements? Not that I'm surprised.
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[20:56] <Hiena> The density doesn't matter. For example, if you want a flight over 2400m, you should provide a minimal radar cross section or you should make a controlled flight in firing range.
[20:59] <craag> KK6ENG: I am not. I'm in the UK!
[20:59] <ak4rp> Hiena: I can see the Gripens chasing a wedding balloon...
[20:59] <tjanoss> Ok, we will use only chinaise lampions as balloon-like flying objects
[21:00] <KK6ENG> craag: Cool. I was just trying to find someone who might have a connection with Arko or the payload to give a bit more information on their end.
[21:02] <craag> KK6ENG: Yeah only connection I've got is through this IRC channel.
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[21:02] <KK6ENG> craag: I hope he finds it. I'd really like to know where the problem was.
[21:03] <Hiena> tjanoss: They are illegal too, due the fire hazard. They was legal up to 2012. ;)
[21:03] <craag> KK6ENG: I'm sure arko would too! Hopefully they've got a yagi with them to df it.
[21:04] <ak4rp> Hiena: are your efforts public? Do you have any up-to-date pointers regarding the legal background? I know it's fun to talk to the NKH (or whatever is their current name)
[21:07] <Hiena> ak4rp: My efforts is private, because they are mostly lunchmoney founded. If you want, I'll point some legal mumbo-jumbo tomorrow. Now, i have to do some sleep research.
[21:07] <Hiena> Have fun!
[21:07] <ak4rp> bye
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[21:11] <tjanoss> Peter, en is bucsuzom, keszuldom lefekudni. Bandi ba most olvasta a WREN 50dollaros torteneteket.
[21:11] <tjanoss> szia, joejt! (jo napot!)
[21:12] <ak4rp> jó éjszakát! (Babával nekem is kicsit összefolynak :)
[21:12] <x-f> [OT] http://i.imgur.com/cdKEB5D.gif - true story
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[21:27] <W6YRA> arko: blakangel we still have the carrier. i've parked the yagi to include the rest of the predicted trajectory. i hope to see a sharp drift indicative of cooling from burst
[21:27] <W6YRA> and then no signal which would indicate it went below the mountains
[21:27] <W6YRA> i would LOS about a kilometer above the predicted LZ
[21:29] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[21:40] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[21:43] <LeoBodnar> It's a shame there are no more receivers for arko
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[21:43] <LeoBodnar> we could have triangulated the position
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[21:44] <LeoBodnar> W6YRA: is it fading in and out?
[21:44] <W6YRA> yeah that would have been great. it is stable just the little rocking drift we have always seen even when the rtty was on
[21:44] <W6YRA> no big slews, so no cooling/burtst yet, although we're within 10min of the predict
[21:47] <W6YRA> when it was live we would see these impulsive shifts, which would trend back. presumably voltage instability like GPS hogging or something. not even seeing that now
[21:48] <W6YRA> so i suspect it is pretty dead
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[21:51] <stealth_> is pico still up
[21:51] <W6YRA> we think so but no RTTY, just carrier
[21:52] <stealth_> tracker shows big swing to the west then back on track
[21:52] <W6YRA> just a GPS formatting glitch
[21:52] <stealth_> shold be nearing the burst alt
[21:52] <W6YRA> or an airplane wing snagged it and was kind enough to bring it back
[21:53] <W6YRA> yes, we're watching the carrier closely, hopefully thermal drift will tell us when it is descending
[21:56] <eroomde> got a yagi to DF?
[21:56] <W6YRA> we are most certainly not portable. not our flight
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[21:57] <LeoBodnar> You should hear the burst quite clearly by disturbance and sudden change in fading pattern
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[21:59] <DL1SGP> indeed, bursts sound so cool
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[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> evening S_Mark
[22:07] <S_Mark> Hello Lunar
[22:08] <ve6ts> wohoo i got my fr24 ads reciever today, they send me a loaner as they wanted one in my area.
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[22:10] <W6YRA> carrier is still steady at 2110UTC
[22:11] <S_Mark> Good rhank you
[22:11] <S_Mark> that
[22:12] <S_Mark> thank lol
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear that
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> I am good too
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> recovered from cold
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[22:15] <W6YRA> hrm, 30 min past predict and still no burst. o
[22:15] <W6YRA> whoops
[22:15] <W6YRA> anyway, wondering if this carrier is actually the balloon
[22:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> ve6ts: cool
[22:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> ve6ts: (0dBd gain, 38 cm long,
[22:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> weather proof)
[22:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> 0 db antenna.. mm
[22:21] <ve6ts> Reb-SM3ULC yup
[22:23] <W6YRA> ok, NOW it is 30 min past burst predict. we're still listening, and also playing back this morning to see if the carrier remained when we lost the rtty
[22:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> ve6ts: thought it was some colinear thing with 5-8 db
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[22:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SIGMA-CATC-410-G3-Fibreglass-Omni-Directional-Antenna-403-421-MHz-/221324790945?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3387fc4ca1
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Not sure how it'd do on 433
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[22:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> SpeedEvil, Which frequencies do you want the aerial for ?
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[22:42] <SpeedEvil> I was actually just looking at local fibreglass - and that popped up showing a vertical with decent gain
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> On reflection, it's not very suitable
[22:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> You can get one for the same price for 2m and 70cms http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/amateur-radio/antennas/base-antennas/sirio-270ln here
[22:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> same spec as well.
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[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I diddn't initially realise it wasn't second hand
[22:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've had mine a stupid amount of time its like 20+ years!
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[22:52] <W6YRA> well we're 20 minutes past landing predict, and we haven't seen anything change on this carrier. we're doubting if this is even it. see see something on playback, but it isn't as well defined as what we're on now
[22:52] <W6YRA> so we're going to call it a day
[22:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Good attempt, lets hope Arco can DF nearer the landing predict!
[22:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Arko
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[23:06] Action: WillTablet just found out you can't actually use packet radio for anything not originating from an amateur radio station
[23:06] <WillTablet> My internet gateway plans are screwed
[23:07] <craag> WillTablet: The actual meaning of that is that the callsign of the transmitting station has to take responsibility for the content transmitted.
[23:07] <craag> So it could be done, just be aware that if anything dodgy goes over it, you could lose your license or worse.
[23:07] <WillTablet> So if google swears :-P
[23:07] <craag> yep
[23:07] <WillTablet> I could make a filter or something
[23:07] <craag> hence it's not advisable
[23:08] <craag> no filter would be good enough, trust me.
[23:08] <craag> (Having been to a school that spent a lot of money on a very comprehensive web filter)
[23:08] <WillTablet> Not much on the internet is likely to be that offensive
[23:09] <craag> still, I wouldn't want to take the risk
[23:09] <WillTablet> I guess its still worth doing for the interest of it
[23:09] <WillTablet> Did you get around their filter?
[23:09] <craag> If you want to, as long as you comply with the license requirements, go ahead :)
[23:09] <WillTablet> Someone actually recorded themself using SSH on ham radio
[23:09] <WillTablet> Wait
[23:09] <WillTablet> He was using a dummy load
[23:09] <WillTablet> Whatever that is
[23:10] <craag> It absorbs the radio rather than it being transmitted into the air.
[23:10] <WillTablet> Can you use packet on HF?
[23:10] <mfa298> also packet radio isn't particularly fast, it might take a while to load a page from google.
[23:10] <craag> YEs, but it's very slow
[23:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nor can you run any form of encryption over any form of AR link!
[23:10] <craag> Like 100x slower than dialup.
[23:10] <WillTablet> Geoff-G8DHE: he mentioned that
[23:10] <mfa298> and I dread to think what the google search while you type would do to packet radio.
[23:10] <craag> haha mfa298
[23:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> AX25 is not a good choice of protocol for HF
[23:11] <WillTablet> It would be interesting to try anyhow
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[23:12] <WillTablet> I guess IRC might work
[23:12] <K9JKM> Packet on International Space Station uses AX.25 but most of them are unconnected UI packets
[23:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> That already exists within the current BBS software
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[23:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Night all - AFK
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[23:23] <fsphil> aww habex didn't come back
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[23:24] <craag> Sounds like the carrier wasn't it either.
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[23:28] <Viss> arko: are you guys controlling the balloon in any way?
[23:30] <craag> Viss: As far as I know, no.
[23:31] <Viss> tell me he did something rad like transmit occasional screenshots using SSTV or something
[23:31] <Viss> or hes got a 1.3ghz fpv setup or something
[23:31] <Viss> I would totally track it with a yagi, and ustream live video from the thing
[23:32] <craag> Just a tracker it looks like: http://habexproject.org/pico/
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[23:33] <Viss> gotha
[23:33] <Viss> gotcha
[23:35] <fsphil> is it possibe to query more than one item of data per navigation solution on a ublox? it seems to wait for the next update each time I query it for something
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[23:36] <fsphil> the datasheet isn't helping me at all
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[23:39] <craag> fsphil: Yeah I had that, it's weird.
[23:40] <craag> 'solved' by setting the update rate to 10hz
[23:40] <fsphil> hmm yea, not ideal but would speed it up
[23:41] <craag> mm
[23:42] <craag> Also it means that you can check for lock, get lock OK, then ask for lat/lon, and by the next update it's lost lock, so they're not valid.
[23:42] <fsphil> yea that's what I'm worried about
[23:42] <craag> I talked to people who said I must be doing it wrong, but using copy-pasted CUSF code I still got the same behaviour.
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[23:43] <fsphil> I query for time, position and lock (number of sats, etc)
[23:43] <craag> 3 different messages right?
[23:43] <fsphil> yea. three seconds atm
[23:43] <craag> yeah same.
[23:44] <craag> I had to do the 10hz for fizzle that was doing 600baud lines
[23:44] <craag> with each line being ~2 seconds, 3 seconds to get something from the GPS wasn't working.
[23:44] <fsphil> I wonder what u-center
[23:44] <fsphil> does
[23:44] <adamgreig> "copy-pasted CUSF code"
[23:45] <adamgreig> not sure that's exactly a stamp of quality :P
[23:47] <craag> well it was using the same messages, but the logic for waiting for the end of the response was different, so I wondered if it was a bug in my version of that
[23:47] <craag> but they were identical, and after that I found that the GPS doesn't *start* responding until an update period has passed.
[23:48] <fsphil> yea
[23:48] <fsphil> if I query half way between updates the response comes back in 500ms
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[23:49] <fsphil> it doesn't seem possible to do more than one query per update
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[23:52] <craag> So apart from NMEA or PUBX, has anyone actually solved the 'not being able to know if your position is actually valid' problem?
[23:55] <jcoxon> no news about habexpico2?
[23:55] <craag> jcoxon: none :(
[23:57] <jcoxon> oh dear
[23:59] <W6YRA> we were the only receiving station when it went silent, and it has a pretty high probability on being on the ground by now, which we can't pick up due to range & mountains
[00:00] --- Thu Nov 28 2013