highaltitude.log.20131126

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[04:05] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q65O3qA0-n4
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[05:10] <DL7AD_> good good arko :) good morning
[05:11] <arko> morning
[05:11] <arko> you're up early no?
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[06:35] <DL7AD_> arko yes
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[06:36] <DL7AD> next time append my name arko that my client notifies me
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[08:19] <fsphil> morrrrrrning
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[08:19] <daveake> brrrrrrrrrr
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[08:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Guys *shudder*
[08:20] <x-f> haya
[08:20] <x-f> SP3OSJ is near Corsica!
[08:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good flight :-)
[08:21] <arko> its freezing over here too
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[08:50] <SM5OCI> POP1 to be releaseed today?
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[08:53] <fsphil> there's been no announcement
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[08:56] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[08:57] <F5VKV> lost SP3OSJ about 1 hour ago
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[08:58] <tjanos> good brrning! the SP3OSJ survived the night and seems, it is in goog condition. Are there any follower station to trak it in jurney to Afrika?
[08:58] <DL7AD> morning
[08:58] <x-f> F5VKV, that's ok, thanks for finding it!
[08:58] <DL7AD> tjanos: its not going to africa
[08:59] <tjanos> but? return to home?
[08:59] <F5VKV> morning Sven
[08:59] <x-f> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/139966_trj001.gif
[09:00] <DL7AD> morning F5VKV ;)
[09:01] <tjanos> Oh, ok, its will be nice trip to visit Sicili and the Vesuv
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[09:03] <DL1SGP1> good morning all
[09:03] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[09:04] <DL7AD> morning DL1SGP number 1
[09:04] <DL7AD> which client do you use felix?
[09:06] <SM5OCI> Noob question: What are the blue and green circles? Blue=horizon?
[09:06] <fsphil> yea
[09:06] <fsphil> green is where the payload is 5 degrees above the horizon
[09:06] <fsphil> it might say that if you hover the mouse over them
[09:07] <SM5OCI> Ok, tnx.
[09:08] <SM5OCI> Hovering over green/blue circles tells me nothing.
[09:08] <DL1SGP> DL7AD: Pidgin, the issue is rather the ISP than the IRC-Client :)
[09:09] <DL7AD> SM5OCI: hovering with your mouse over the lines
[09:09] <DL7AD> DL1SGP: ah.... linuxfreak
[09:11] <DL1SGP> DL7AD: not forcefully, but for some stuff I need a few plugins, I am not an OS-Fetishist all have advantages and disadvantages, some have more disadvantages than advantages :-D
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[09:12] <fsphil> it's nice to try a new OS now and then
[09:13] <DL1SGP> indeed fsphil, and kinda required in my everyday business :)
[09:13] <fsphil> I give Haiku a go every now and then
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[09:23] <tjanos> are there any new telemetry from SP3OSJ?
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[09:38] <DL7AD> tjanos: no there are no receivers we can aquire
[09:39] <DL7AD> tjanos: no balloon ever flew in this region
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[09:48] <tjanos> I know a radio amateur near Rome, I sent him a mail, but he is not too active, I think
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[09:57] <tjanos> he is working, connected to meteorology, special servive for Roma airport: http://www.kwos.it/joomla/about-me2 I know him from the Blitzortung community
[09:58] <tjanos> it would be nice to access him
[09:58] Jacob (4bbb6cb4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.187.108.180) joined #highaltitude.
[09:59] <Jacob> Hi, is anyone in here?
[09:59] Nick change: Jacob -> Guest33857
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[10:00] <DL1SGP> hi Jacob
[10:00] <Guest33857> I'm jacob, I'm trying to figure out how to change my nickname.
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13> use the /nick command
[10:01] <Guest33857> Am I Jacob again?
[10:01] <eroomde> no
[10:01] <Guest33857> Now?
[10:01] <eroomde> /nick Jacob
[10:01] <Guest33857> Oh my gosh
[10:01] <eroomde> it might be that someone is already called Jacob
[10:01] <DL1SGP> the nick Jacob might be in use
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[10:01] <eroomde> registered on IRC
[10:01] <eroomde> so you can't take his nick
[10:01] <DL1SGP> add a number to it like Jacob182
[10:01] Nick change: Guest33857 -> TheRealJacob
[10:02] <TheRealJacob> And nowww?
[10:02] <DL1SGP> :)
[10:02] <TheRealJacob> FINALLY
[10:02] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[10:02] <TheRealJacob> Okay, anyways, how are you guys tonight?
[10:02] <eroomde> i'm very well
[10:02] <eroomde> this morning
[10:02] <eroomde> you must be american :)
[10:02] <eroomde> oh no
[10:02] <eroomde> no
[10:02] <eroomde> australian
[10:02] <eroomde> oh wait, who knows
[10:02] <DL1SGP> I am fine too, how are you?
[10:02] <TheRealJacob> Technically morning, yes. It's 5AM here
[10:02] <eroomde> east coast
[10:02] <daveake> Ah USA then
[10:02] <TheRealJacob> I'm working on making my first balloon. I'm in the research stage.
[10:04] <TheRealJacob> I bought a GPS module to play around with, then I'm going to buy the HX1 transmitter module and figure out how to use those together. I've never used my arduino with GPS or wireless stuff so I'm going to learn a lot from this project.
[10:04] <eroomde> it'll be a lot of fun
[10:04] <eroomde> it's a really awesome project to do, not least as a way of learning some embedded programming
[10:05] <TheRealJacob> I tried to read through the trackuino code, and I'm seeming to have a hard time understanding it. I understand programming already for the most part, but the trackuino stuff really gets me.
[10:05] <UpuWork> which GPS module TheRealJacob ?
[10:06] <TheRealJacob> Hold on, let me check, Upuwork.
[10:06] <eroomde> I'd totally ignore using any code you find on the net and build it up from scratch
[10:06] <eroomde> the job of a balloon trcker is sufficiently easy that it's hard to justify lubraries, especially at the cost of understanding what's going on
[10:06] <UpuWork> lubraries :)
[10:06] <TheRealJacob> Upuwork, GlobalSat EM-406a
[10:07] <UpuWork> mumble :)
[10:07] <eroomde> em-406a is a sirfIII chipset
[10:07] <eroomde> it'll die
[10:07] <TheRealJacob> I'm not forsure using that in my final stage, just got it to mess around with really.
[10:07] <eroomde> unless the a suffix means good-for-hab
[10:07] <UpuWork> When you come to get the HX1
[10:07] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[10:07] <DL1SGP> :D
[10:07] <UpuWork> or a GPS module that works
[10:07] <eroomde> there endeth the salespitch
[10:07] <eroomde> .
[10:07] <UpuWork> yeah I'm done :)
[10:08] <eroomde> lubrary does sound like some kind of scandinavian berry
[10:08] <eroomde> that you'd turn into a jab and eat with reindeer
[10:08] <TheRealJacob> I was planning on writing the code from scratch anyways only because I didn't understand trackuino :). But what's wrong with that GPS module again?
[10:08] <eroomde> it's based on the very common Sirf III chipset, which has an altitude limit of about 27km if memory serves
[10:09] <UpuWork> 18km
[10:09] <UpuWork> I think ?
[10:09] <eroomde> lots of habs go well above that, eg to 40km
[10:09] <eroomde> it's *not* 60,000ft
[10:09] <SIbot> In real units: 60,000 ft = 18 km
[10:09] <eroomde> it's something arbitrarily higher
[10:09] <eroomde> but still too low
[10:09] <TheRealJacob> lol for the real units
[10:09] <UpuWork> its SiRFIII based which don't work above a certain altitude
[10:09] <eroomde> that was always the stupid thing about the sirfIII chipsets
[10:09] <TheRealJacob> For my first HAB I don't want it to go to far from me, I want to find it!
[10:09] <UpuWork> the only SiRFIII Based GPS that works above "insert altitude here" is the Inventek ISM one
[10:09] <eroomde> it was implenent as AND on COCOM but had a second altitude limit that made them useless anyway
[10:09] <TheRealJacob> Which GPS module would you guys reccomend?
[10:10] <eroomde> ublox6/7
[10:10] <UpuWork> however SiRF III is about 2 generations old as well
[10:10] <UpuWork> yes ublox 7
[10:10] <daveake> <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[10:10] <eroomde> it's a very good chipset apart from that
[10:10] <eroomde> very sensitive
[10:10] <eroomde> not as good dynamic performance as ublox but you don't need that anyway for hab
[10:10] <UpuWork> https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/GPS/EM-406A_User_Manual.PDF it is 60k feet eroomde :)
[10:10] <UpuWork> Altitude 18,000 meters (60,000 feet) max
[10:10] <SIbot> In real units: 60,000 ft = 18 km
[10:11] <UpuWork> simple bot is simple
[10:11] <daveake> persistent bot
[10:11] <UpuWork> so yes will be ok to test with
[10:11] <UpuWork> but don't launch that
[10:12] <UpuWork> Anyway : At the ris
[10:12] <UpuWork> cut and paste fail
[10:12] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[10:12] <UpuWork> have a read of that
[10:13] <TheRealJacob> So would I need to buy a breakout board to use the ublox7? That's what I'm understanding so far.
[10:14] <TheRealJacob> And thank you guys for all the help so far. I've learned so much in the past fifteen minutes than I have on Google in the past week!
[10:15] <UpuWork> TheRealJacob http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
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[10:15] <UpuWork> and use the discount code UKHAS at the check out
[10:16] <UpuWork> I'll stop advertising my shop now. Other shops are availble. (Adafruit Ultimate stops at 27km). I love you all long time.
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[10:17] <daveake> Will buy again A++++
[10:17] <craag> haha UpuWork
[10:17] <craag> +1 for Hab Supplies
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[10:18] <TheRealJacob> Thanks for the links!
[10:18] <UpuWork> TheRealJacob my advice is go read other peoples blogs
[10:18] <UpuWork> read the UKHAS Wiki
[10:18] <TheRealJacob> How do you mention someone directly?
[10:18] <UpuWork> make the decision on what to buy based on understanding the stuff out there
[10:19] <UpuWork> how do you mean ?
[10:19] <DL1SGP> if you need to find some blogs and comments relating to folks from here search for the #ukhas hashtag and so on at twitter
[10:19] <UpuWork> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/
[10:19] <UpuWork> www.daveakerman.com
[10:20] <UpuWork> http://habe.acudworth.co.uk/blog/
[10:20] <TheRealJacob> Like when your name shows up in red when you're talking to me.
[10:20] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:members
[10:20] <craag> TheRealJacob: Start typing the person's name, then press tab to autocomplete it.
[10:21] <TheRealJacob> craag: Thanks!
[10:21] <TheRealJacob> Did that work?
[10:21] <DL1SGP> TheRealJacob: that is a highlight. a function of your client... mostly works by using the nickname of the person you want to address in a way like I just did
[10:21] <craag> :)
[10:21] <craag> yep!
[10:21] <DL1SGP> great
[10:21] <TheRealJacob> I'm learning so much tonight/day!
[10:22] <TheRealJacob> UpuWork: thanks for all the links, I really need to start reading into this stuff more!
[10:22] <TheRealJacob> I'm really excited to get this started!
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[10:25] <craag> :D
[10:26] <TheRealJacob> I'm gonna get going now! I'm sure I'll see some of you in here soon again :)
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[10:29] <DL1SGP> Willkommen zurueck Sven
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[10:31] <Laurenceb> crazy weather this morning
[10:31] TheRealJacob (~androirc@cpe-75-187-108-180.insight.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:31] <Laurenceb> really strong temperature inversion
[10:32] <TheRealJacob> Testing
[10:32] <Laurenceb> its causing a "reverse mirage" effect
[10:32] <TheRealJacob> I'm on mobile now. That's all.
[10:32] <Laurenceb> i can see over the horizon by about 20 miles
[10:32] <Laurenceb> mental
[10:32] <fsphil> castles in the sky?
[10:33] <Laurenceb> its very weird
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[10:33] <x-f> ships upside down?
[10:33] <fsphil> just cloudy and dull here
[10:33] <Laurenceb> land nearby seems to be bending upwards
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[10:35] <fsphil> inception
[10:35] <daveake> GoPro
[10:35] <fsphil> hah
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[10:38] <gonzo__> There was some discussion about atmospheric bending of light at the local horizon, on the light comms group
[10:38] <gonzo__> someone had a telescope pointing at distane landmarks and showed the effects day to day
[10:40] <Laurenceb> yeah there was a huge effect this morning
[10:41] <Laurenceb> like several degrees, i thought i was tripping or something :P
[10:41] <Laurenceb> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1088648_life-with-tesla-model-s-even-after-update-vampire-draw-remains/page-1
[10:41] <Laurenceb> ^woops
[10:42] <craag> That is a ridiculous standby power draw
[10:42] <craag> 180W
[10:43] <fsphil> ooch
[10:43] <fsphil> firmware updates for cars
[10:43] <fsphil> scary
[10:44] <daveake> No wonder Woz is eating so much lately
[10:44] <DL7AD> i like that energy plug in the woods :P never seen
[10:44] <daveake> Beware of things charging in the woods
[10:45] <fsphil> uurg, that site has a horrible 'subscribe to our newsletter' popup
[10:45] <fsphil> I was trying to READ YOUR SITE
[10:45] <DL7AD> fsphil: agree!
[10:46] <UpuWork> no there is one worse
[10:46] <UpuWork> its the one that pops up the very second you enter a site saying "Would you like to do a survey on our site"
[10:46] <daveake> They never have a F Off And Die button
[10:47] <fsphil> yes, the instant you enter not knowing anything about their site at all -- other than it has a horrible popup
[10:47] <daveake> How can I help you today? .... John
[10:47] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:47] <daveake> Fix your website, John, that'd be great
[10:48] <DL7AD> rofl.....
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[10:51] <DL7AD> daveake do you mean spacenear?
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[10:51] <daveake> No, I mean RS
[10:52] <fsphil> good choice of letters
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[10:54] <nats`> hi boyz :
[10:54] <nats`> :)
[10:54] <DL7AD> but whos administering spacenear? are all works already done?
[10:54] <DL7AD> hi nats`
[10:54] <UpuWork> administering a few of us, developing not so many
[10:55] <DL7AD> umm whos developing spacenear?
[10:55] <UpuWork> the habhub team
[10:55] <DL7AD> okay should be you included UpuWork
[10:55] <DL7AD> are all works already done?
[10:55] <craag> What works?
[10:56] <fsphil> the outage we had before was caused by google breaking things
[10:56] <DL7AD> switching over to google-maps-api-v3
[10:56] <craag> The map now works if that's what you mean, it was google's fault.
[10:56] <UpuWork> might be best not letting me anywhere near the code DL7AD
[10:56] <craag> It's not properly switched over, still using the shim code.
[10:56] <craag> But works :)
[10:56] <fsphil> it's a bit slower
[10:56] <craag> mm
[10:56] <fsphil> ok lots slower on firefox
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[10:57] Action: DL1SGP slaps Google around a bit with a large trout
[10:57] <DL7AD> fsphil: a bit? ^^ it went really slow
[10:57] <UpuWork> natrium42 started to migrate it about a year ago but never completed it
[10:57] <fsphil> there may be changes being done to habitat soon, so probably best to leave a rewrite until after that
[10:58] <DL7AD> ah okay....
[10:58] <DL7AD> anyway its working
[10:58] <DL7AD> not good but it is
[10:58] <DL7AD> just wanna know if there are chanings still in progress
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[10:59] <craag> DL7AD: THere's constantly work going on to improve it :)
[10:59] <fsphil> no major works atm
[10:59] <DL7AD> it's open source isn't it?
[10:59] <fsphil> yea
[11:00] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/
[11:00] <fsphil> loadsalinks
[11:00] <fsphil> first one is to source
[11:02] <DL7AD> rofl... // Put IE9 into compatibility mode
[11:03] <mattbrejza> anyone else had DS18b20 sensors stop working after a while? (and by stop working they continuously report the same value)
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> powered?
[11:05] <mattbrejza> yea
[11:06] <mattbrejza> there are two on the same bus
[11:06] <mattbrejza> the other one is fine
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> have you read the reliable... document?
[11:07] <mattbrejza> well i just used the onewire/ds18b20 library for avr
[11:07] <mattbrejza> so no
[11:08] <mattbrejza> i guess it could be bodge fixed with a reset command every now and then (assuming such a thing exists)
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/148
[11:08] <Reb-SM3ULC> mattbrejza: don't think so druing the 15 or so year i've been using 1820
[11:09] <mattbrejza> hmm ok
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[11:13] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[11:13] <mattbrejza> i could actually test the error code returned by the read function
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[11:15] <SpeedEvil> way too radical!
[11:15] <mattbrejza> not sure what i would do when it returns 'not ok'
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[12:50] <fsphil> http://hackaday.com/2013/11/26/amateur-radio-transmits-1000-miles-on-voice-power/
[12:50] <fsphil> -while-appearing-ridiculous
[12:51] <craag> lol
[12:53] <LazyLeopard> Gotta keep talking while bashing out the Morse... ;)
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[12:54] <fsphil> it reminds me of the russian listening device hidden in a gift
[12:54] <fsphil> it didn't need any battery power
[12:54] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_%28listening_device%29
[12:54] <craag> Needed a reasonably high power transmitter pointed at it though
[12:55] <fsphil> ah yes
[12:55] <fsphil> not the same
[12:55] <craag> no, but still awesome :)
[12:57] <fsphil> could we power a payload this way? :)
[12:58] <fsphil> fire 20W at it on 434mhz
[12:58] <craag> haha yeah we could
[12:58] <craag> well obviosuly it would have to be passive
[12:59] <fsphil> yes, just trying to make a CQ call
[12:59] <craag> I wonder how you could key rtty with a resonant circuit.
[13:01] <craag> so have the AVR drive something that acts like the 'Thing' and modulates RTTY.
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[13:02] <gonzo__> the cccp put a passive bug in an us embassy in the 60's (?) with just a resonant cavity. In some plaque that was presedted to them i reccall. And so simple (and unexpected) iot passed inspection
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[13:02] <craag> gonzo__: THat's the 'thing'
[13:03] <gonzo__> tuned cct and a varicap?
[13:03] <gonzo__> or even just pulse a load on the tuned cct, like contactless smart cards do
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[13:03] <craag> gonzo__: Yeah, tuned cct connected to an antenna would re-radiate at resonance?
[13:04] <gonzo__> would still need a shit load s of power to run the gPS!
[13:04] <craag> antenna is obviously part of the tuned circuit
[13:04] <craag> Well power that seperately, but use this as the TX downlink :P
[13:04] <gonzo__> just a half wave lit of wire to re-radiate. Look at 'window'
[13:05] <craag> Yep, and vary it's tuning slightly to modulate the re-radiation (assuming a broadband tx)
[13:05] <craag> Ground-testing would be painful
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[13:08] <craag> So... now that the TX is on the ground, which ham band would you like to use?
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[13:11] <fsphil> well easy to get a 700W transmitter for 2.4ghz :)
[13:12] <fsphil> though not an amateur band anymore?
[13:12] <craag> not for long at least :/
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[13:33] <ullas> Hello. How to implement humidity sensor at high altitudes?
[13:35] <mfa298> buy sensor, attach to microcontroller, read data, transmit with telemetry or store onboard.
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[13:43] <eroomde> there is no humidity at high altitudes anyway really
[13:43] <ullas> then can you suggest any other simple experiements?
[13:45] <eroomde> is this for school stuff?
[13:46] <ullas> college project
[13:46] <eroomde> ok cool
[13:47] <eroomde> college as in 17-18 or univerity? (words are different in american/uk english)
[13:47] <ullas> eroomde: university
[13:47] <eroomde> ok cool
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[13:48] <eroomde> well, lots of people doing this are univeristy students, so anything you see on the ukhas wiki or random HAB blogs is probably quite achievable at a university dtudent level
[13:48] <eroomde> you could try and measure the speed of sound
[13:48] <eroomde> i don't think anyone's directly measured that yet
[13:49] <craag> G8JNJ: Afternoon Martin! (Phil here)
[13:49] <eroomde> and see if it agress with the speed of sound that you calculate from temperature
[13:50] <eroomde> c = sqrt(gamma*R*T), where gamma is the heat capacity ratio, R is the ideal gas constant, T is temp in kelvin
[13:51] <ullas> eroomde: interesting. can you elaborate on the experiment?
[13:51] <ullas> eroomde: Can you directly measure the speed of sound?
[13:51] <eroomde> well, so theory says you can calculate the speed of sound just by knowing/measuring the temp
[13:52] <eroomde> but you could also directly measure it
[13:52] <eroomde> say with a speaker and a microphone
[13:52] <eroomde> and see if the two agree
[13:52] <eroomde> and if not, why not
[13:52] <eroomde> (which would actually also indirectly measure humidity! - because gamma - the heat capacity ratio - assumes dry air)
[13:54] <ullas> eroomde: nice. how do you measure it with a speaker and microphone?
[13:54] <eroomde> well there are lots of ways
[13:54] <eroomde> here's what *I* would do
[13:54] <eroomde> i'd have a speaker being driven by a sine wave
[13:54] <eroomde> i'd have a microphone some known distance away
[13:54] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[13:55] <eroomde> i'd compare the phase of the sine wave coming out of the mic with the sine wave i'm using to drive the speaker - this is all very textbook analog circuit design stuff - and from that phase difference you should be able to calculate the speed of sound
[13:56] <eroomde> because the wavelength will chanve if the speed of the wave changes but if the frequency is held constant
[13:56] <eroomde> and so you can measure that as a change of phase
[13:56] <eroomde> this is probably quite hard to explain without a diagram, sorry
[13:56] <eroomde> but hopefully you see what i mean
[13:58] <ullas> eroomde: but would small distance make any difference in the speed of sound?
[13:58] <ullas> eroomde: because the payload has to be small right?
[13:58] <eroomde> the distance between the mic and the speaker would be fixed
[13:59] <eroomde> it shouldn't matter
[13:59] <eroomde> what we're definitely *not* doing here is sending a pulse with the speaker and seeing how long it takes to reach the microphone
[13:59] <eroomde> that was *would* be difficult with small distances
[13:59] <eroomde> but by measuring the phase difference between two sine waves, you can get around that problem
[13:59] <fsphil> I'd quite like to measure the speed of light some day. no real gain other than saying I've done it :)
[14:00] <eroomde> you can do it in exactly the same way
[14:00] <fsphil> indeed
[14:00] <eroomde> just get a coil of fibreoptic and a scope, drive it with an LED sinudoisally and hook ch2 of the scope onto a photodiode
[14:00] <eroomde> measure the phase diff
[14:00] <eroomde> voila
[14:02] <eroomde> ullas: you could do all this with a microcontroller too, probably, rather than with an analogue circuit
[14:03] <ullas> eroomde: but wouldn't the small distance give rise to small phase difference, which would make it difficult to detect?
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[14:04] <craag> ullas: at 300m/s, a 1KHz waveform will change 180 degrees in 15cm.
[14:04] <eroomde> ^
[14:06] <eroomde> which makes it all quite reasonable for a HAB experiment
[14:06] <ullas> craag: how did you determine that?
[14:06] <eroomde> ullas: what's the wavelength of a 1khz sine wave going at 300m/s?
[14:07] <ullas> 0.3m ?
[14:07] <eroomde> correct
[14:07] <adamgreig> fsphil: chocolate in microwave suffices
[14:07] <adamgreig> well kind-of
[14:07] <eroomde> so at 0.015m (15cm) it's only done half a wavelength, right?
[14:07] <adamgreig> it's not quite as nice
[14:08] <adamgreig> but you can measure the distance between peaks
[14:08] <ullas> eroomde: yeah
[14:08] <fsphil> adamgreig: do explain :)
[14:08] <fsphil> I like chocolate
[14:08] <eroomde> so at half a wavelngth from the transmitter, it's 180 degrees out of phase with the transmitter
[14:09] <gonzo__> the smart phone people did the scream in space experiment. Could we do a hab version? we watch someone put up a balloon relying on a spot/gsm tracker and see if we can hear them scream , when they lose it?
[14:09] <eroomde> at a whole wavelngth from the transmitter, it'd be 360 degrees out of phase (which is the same as being in-phase) with the transmitter
[14:09] <eroomde> watch that space gonzo__
[14:09] <fsphil> gonzo__: didn't that satellite fail?
[14:09] <gonzo__> erm.... near space !
[14:10] <gonzo__> I heard they had probs.
[14:10] <gonzo__> not really kept up on the sats scene. Only the funcube, as it's closer to home
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> gonzo__: The clear next step to the scream in space project is an ice-cream in space project.
[14:11] <G8JNJ> CRAAG: Hi Phil ! is POP1 your balloon ?
[14:11] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if there is a spot for a cubesat launcher.
[14:11] <gonzo__> awould that be a man made comet?
[14:11] <adamgreig> gonzo__: there are already plans afoot to run the exact same experiment from a HAB
[14:11] <fsphil> totally
[14:11] <fsphil> a tasty comet
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> A cubesat that pops open, and launches 27 cubesats
[14:11] <adamgreig> fsphil: trying to remember now. basically you just put chocolate on a (non rotating) microwave, the hot spots should be lambda or lambda/2 apart or something, you measure them
[14:11] <gonzo__> so is the latest comet mission to see it it made of vanilla, or rum and rasin?
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: yeah - but powering a microwave at 40km altitude will be hard.
[14:12] <fsphil> adamgreig: ah yes, I remember watching someone do that a while back
[14:12] <adamgreig> mm
[14:12] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: oh I was just pondering measuring the speed of light
[14:12] <fsphil> not directly HAB related
[14:12] <gonzo__> the hot spots will be determined by the nulls/nodes in the cavity. So could be anywhere as there will be lots of reflecting wave fronts
[14:12] <adamgreig> or you send a pulse of radio signal down a directional antenna at a reflector and time how long it takes to come back
[14:12] <adamgreig> that's fun
[14:13] <adamgreig> tricky
[14:13] Action: SpeedEvil quacks.
[14:13] <eroomde> ullas: what are your thoughts?
[14:13] <Hix> Anyone know if I am going along the right lines using one of these as a the basis of a current draw logger with an AVR http://goo.gl/h3hcS0 ?
[14:13] <gonzo__> we did the light speed experiment once. The slotted disc and rotate it till the light can't get through
[14:13] <craag> G8JNJ: No, POP1 is one of the university ones
[14:13] <gonzo__> quite spectaculat in an understated way to see
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> Hix: in many cases, you can skip that.
[14:14] <craag> G8JNJ: They're testing some sensors for a possible launch this weekend.
[14:14] <G8JNJ> OK just wondered if I could hear it - what freq ?
[14:14] <fsphil> gonzo__: yea that one is cool
[14:14] <Hix> how so SpeedEvil
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Hix: Put a 0.1R in the negative rail, and then just use a negative feedback opamp circuit to get it up to an ADC
[14:14] <fsphil> gonzo__: how far away was the mirror?
[14:14] <craag> G8JNJ: Hmm 434.650 I think
[14:14] <G8JNJ> OK - I'll take a look
[14:14] <ullas> eroomde: yes. so from what i understand. The payload would consist of a speaker and a mic at a particular distance. the microcontroller sends out a sine wave to the speaker, and the mic receives it. so the microcontoller
[14:15] <craag> It's in someone's house down the hill though, so I doubt you will tbh.
[14:15] <ullas> keeps the count when the wave was sent, and when it receives back.. and from that speed would be calculated right?
[14:15] <craag> (I should check here..)
[14:15] <nats`> shouting at the board for half an hour... wanting to see all ST people dead and remembering that you must compile the firmware before flashing it if you want to test your modifications....
[14:16] <nats`> I hate tuesday
[14:16] <gonzo__> we used two discs on a shaft, about 4ft between. But the slots were too wide to really get much accuracy. and no way of measuting the spinn speed then. But fun to see the light greying out as you wound up the speed
[14:16] <SIbot> In real units: 4 ft = 1.22 m
[14:16] <fsphil> I love you SIbot
[14:16] <Hix> negative feedback looks like a scary beast :)
[14:16] <gonzo__> nats`, been there often
[14:16] <eroomde> ullas: almost
[14:16] <eroomde> what you actually want to do is not measure the time between sending and receiving
[14:17] <eroomde> you want to measure the phase difference between the sent and received sine waves
[14:17] <gonzo__> 200 furlongs
[14:17] <craag> G8JNJ: I can jsut about see it on the waterfall here, but no chance of a decode.
[14:17] <ullas> eroomde: how do you do that
[14:17] <gonzo__> nope,it's sulking
[14:17] <G8JNJ> OK what parameters
[14:17] <eroomde> http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/02019.png
[14:17] <eroomde> so you might send out A and receive B
[14:17] <gonzo__> or it's trying to fathom it out
[14:17] <eroomde> and you want to measure that phase angle between them
[14:18] <craag> G8JNJ: 434.650 almost exactly, 300 baud 7n2
[14:18] <eroomde> ullas: there are lots of waves, if you're doing it with a microcontroller than you can do it in software
[14:18] <craag> You might be able to see the idle high tone.
[14:18] <G8JNJ> Freq shift ?
[14:18] <eroomde> ullas: I gave a talk at the ukhas conference a couple of months ago, about how to write a gps receiver. I spent the first hour going over the basics of digital signal processing
[14:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could you not vary the frequency until the two waveforms are 180 out of phase over the fixed distance, then you can measure the frequency and hence the wavelength.
[14:18] <eroomde> the video is online, i will find the link
[14:19] <eroomde> it should explain to you how you can measure the phase of your incoming signal relative to your speaker signal using a technique called 'I/Q mixing'
[14:19] <eroomde> once you get to that bit you can stop watching
[14:19] <eroomde> :)
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> But carry on its a great talk!
[14:19] <craag> G8JNJ: 425
[14:20] <G8JNJ> I can see something with a spacing of about 470Hz but I think it's local interference
[14:20] <eroomde> don't be put off, i'm talking about work I did at university too, the concepts are actually quite simple, even if you might not be familiar with them
[14:20] <G8JNJ> OK back to work :-(
[14:20] <craag> G8JNJ: It's through campus and down the hill from me, I'm surprised I can hear it at all!
[14:20] <ullas> eroomde: great!..
[14:21] <craag> G8JNJ: Hopefully it'll be a few kms higher in the air for you this weekend!
[14:21] <eroomde> sigh, i can't directly link to batc
[14:21] <eroomde> very annoying
[14:21] <eroomde> ullas: go to batc.tv
[14:21] <eroomde> then film archives
[14:21] <eroomde> then 'HAB 2013' in the category dropdown menu
[14:21] <eroomde> then 'GPS part 1' in the video dropdown menu
[14:21] <eroomde> you'll probably want to watch Part 1 and 2
[14:21] <eroomde> if i remember correctly
[14:21] <eroomde> Geoff-G8DHE: you could definitely do that yes
[14:22] <eroomde> but you still would have to measure the phase at some point
[14:22] <eroomde> hmm i guess unless you mix them and filter
[14:22] <eroomde> well, whatever, it's all just software
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[14:26] <ullas> eroomde: got it. thanks!
[14:27] <eroomde> great
[14:27] <eroomde> it was a bit rushed to prepare as i had a nightmare work week beforehand, so do please aks questions here if i'm unclear in the talk
[14:34] <fsphil> I like that you start of by drawing rude diagrams
[14:37] <eroomde> do I?
[14:38] <gonzo__> always a good start
[14:39] <fsphil> just my dirty mind perhaps. http://i.imgur.com/b5UQpgx.png
[14:39] <adamgreig> lol
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[14:46] <eroomde> can't argue with that
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[14:50] <gonzo__> that would proudly grace any pub toilet wall
[14:52] <cm13g09> OK - that's special....
[14:52] <cm13g09> minutes in 18 hours = 1080....
[14:53] <cm13g09> weird coincidence with monitor resolutionas....
[14:53] <eroomde> kill him, he knows too much
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[14:54] <cm13g09> eroomde: lol
[14:55] Nick change: Piet0r_ -> Piet0r
[14:55] <cm13g09> (ah the joys of writing backup scripts....)
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[15:04] <pavan> hi eroomde
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[15:05] <BrainDamage> 1+8=9, divible by 3, half life 3 confirmed
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[15:08] <eroomde> pavan: hi
[15:08] <eroomde> sorry for the lag
[15:08] <pavan> where can i learn verilog coding?
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[15:08] <jonsowman> :)
[15:09] <eroomde> pavan: not from me! I have done some VHDL, that's about it
[15:09] <eroomde> however I learn that just from trying to find decent free ebooks
[15:09] <eroomde> do you have any kind of hardware with which to experiment - an FPGA dev board, for example?
[15:10] <pavan> can you suggest any group in this site?
[15:11] <eroomde> which site?
[15:11] <mfa298> craag: seeing your discussions with G8JNJ maybe I should start up my payload sometime and see how many people can see it (matt was recieving it the other day)
[15:12] <pavan> eroomde: any group in this kiwiirc ??
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[15:13] <eroomde> pavan: currently you're on an irc network called freenode
[15:13] <eroomde> there are lots of channels available
[15:13] <pavan> any channel related to verilog?
[15:13] <nats`> ##verilog
[15:13] <nats`> and ##fpga
[15:13] <nats`> you have more chance to have answer in ##fpga
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[15:13] <eroomde> so there are specific channels you could try like ##fpga
[15:14] <eroomde> oh i'm too slow
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[15:18] <Hix> anyone used Sugru? They do a 100g lump but I think it'd cure once opened. Fridge / freezer prevent that?
[15:18] <daveake> I've only used little sachets
[15:18] <daveake> Well I've only used 1 so far :p
[15:18] <Hix> heh
[15:18] <daveake> The rest are in the fridge
[15:19] <eroomde> my boss just bought loads
[15:19] <eroomde> he wants to make a mouse that fits his hand
[15:19] <eroomde> he's keeping it in the fridge
[15:19] <daveake> I used it to glue in Babbage's bionic eye
[15:19] <adamgreig> interesting plan
[15:20] <daveake> When he's going to remove his hand from the fridge?
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[15:22] <Hix> 100g seems to be the same price as 40g in 8 sachets worth a shot
[15:23] Nick change: Crashjuh|QTH -> Crashjuh|Away
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[15:27] <raj1> hi maga
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[15:30] <raj1> ullas: yen maga
[15:32] <craag> mfa298: yep you should!
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[15:34] <mfa298> in the current state it's causing the pi to crash - I think I need to understand how to prod the memory for pwm a bit better.
[15:36] <craag> Hmm debugging that must be fun
[15:38] <mfa298> requires a lot of use of the power switch!
[15:39] <cm13g09> mfa298: sounds fun
[15:39] <mfa298> I'm trying to make the Domino baud rate selectable rather than being hard coded for DominoEX16
[15:39] <craag> That'd be good
[15:40] Nick change: Crashjuh|Away -> Crashjuh
[15:40] <mfa298> then I want to find real numbers for DominoEX44 and DominoEX88 (I'm assuming it's just DominoEX22 *2 or *4 at present)
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[15:41] <adamgreig> 22 is 21.533
[15:41] <adamgreig> beyond that, uhm..
[15:41] <adamgreig> it's not official?
[15:41] <eroomde> 160 airwires!
[15:41] <eroomde> [1 hours awesome work]
[15:41] <eroomde> 'ha! how many airwires now!?'
[15:41] <eroomde> 158 airwires!
[15:41] <adamgreig> haha D:
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Call the airwires a layer, and get lots of kynar.
[15:42] <mfa298> I think 44 and 88 are just fldigi options - but could be interesting for SSDV over DominoEX if it works.
[15:42] <adamgreig> mm
[15:43] <adamgreig> I should really get designing my "more-interesting" radio things
[15:43] <adamgreig> one day.
[15:44] <eroomde> what do you have in mind?
[15:44] <adamgreig> 1) receive my hackRF
[15:44] <adamgreig> 2) wideband IQ fun
[15:44] <adamgreig> 3) ...
[15:45] <adamgreig> 4) profit?
[15:45] <eroomde> IC
[15:46] <eroomde> my masterplan is still a combined high speed dual freq gps and IMU
[15:46] <gonzo__> learning and fun is not enough profit for you??
[15:46] <adamgreig> modulation and modes that are >3kHz wide (gasp!) using real constellations (shock!) and actual channel coding (whoa!)
[15:46] <eroomde> but when the hell I'll have time to work on that, who can say
[15:46] <adamgreig> see how close to C I can get
[15:47] <eroomde> C as in shannon or C as in programming language?
[15:47] <adamgreig> shannon
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[15:48] <eroomde> I still want there to be a fast (compiled?) language that's good at matrix math
[15:48] <eroomde> s
[15:49] <eroomde> and perhaps with easy(ish) parallelisation
[15:49] <eroomde> that would make a lot of sigproc stuff more bearable
[15:49] <adamgreig> https://github.com/iskandr/parakeet JITs numpy in python or something
[15:49] <adamgreig> but yes
[15:49] <adamgreig> something like Go or D or C or Rust
[15:49] <eroomde> the problem with the gps stuff in python is that when doing the good shit it can take minutes per second of data
[15:49] <adamgreig> but with multithreaded DSP
[15:49] <adamgreig> and an easy happy library
[15:49] <eroomde> yes exactly
[15:50] <eroomde> and *really* simple matrix math
[15:50] <eroomde> like octave/atlab
[15:50] <eroomde> matlab*
[15:50] <adamgreig> yes
[15:50] <adamgreig> n-d arrays as a fundamental language type
[15:50] <eroomde> y = AQA' + 3x^2
[15:50] <eroomde> i want that syntax
[15:50] <eroomde> that would make me happy
[15:51] <adamgreig> very
[15:51] <adamgreig> but it needs to support nice other things
[15:51] <eroomde> yes
[15:51] <eroomde> i.e. not be octave/matlab
[15:51] <mfa298> C++ with overloaded operators you could write a Matrix class that can do at least some of that stuff.
[15:52] <adamgreig> eeehhhhh
[15:52] <adamgreig> have you tried doing matrix stuff in C++
[15:52] <mfa298> I did some fairly simple stuff for my Uni 3rd year project - wanted to do eigenvalues/eigenvectors.
[15:53] <Reb-SM3ULC> Guesses when SP3OSJ might be arriving i Greece?
[15:53] <fsphil> sheesh, http://i.imgur.com/5Y3eXWw.png
[15:54] <fsphil> would I be right in saying that if the computer had infinite precision, there would be no harmonics in that graph?
[15:54] <eroomde> correct
[15:54] <eroomde> well not quite
[15:54] <eroomde> if it was infinitely long, there would be no ahrmonics
[15:54] <eroomde> harmonics*
[15:54] <eroomde> it's the ends that cause the ringing
[15:54] <fsphil> ah yes
[15:54] <fsphil> gotcha
[15:54] <eroomde> so normally you get round this problem by 'windowing'
[15:55] <eroomde> which is basically just smoothing out the ends of what you're sampling
[15:55] <eroomde> there are a few common windowing functions like 'hamming' windows and so on
[15:56] <fsphil> I've heard of them, not used them
[15:56] <adamgreig> you know how a square wave has awful harmonics?
[15:56] <adamgreig> because we're cutting the signal off at the edges (when we stop sampling) it looks like a sudden (square) edge at the ends of the sample
[15:56] <adamgreig> which gives the harmonics
[15:57] <adamgreig> the windowing function just fades out the signal so it's zero at the edges, which helps stop the harmonics
[15:57] <adamgreig> but will also affect your resolution in the part you're interested in, too
[15:57] <adamgreig> all tradeoffs
[16:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/158253_trj001.gif
[16:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> should be close to trackers i guess
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[16:10] <cm13g09> so... turns out that letting certificates expire is a bad thing :P
[16:11] <adamgreig> oops :P
[16:11] <fsphil> ssl?
[16:12] <cm13g09> fsphil: no....
[16:12] <cm13g09> worse ;)
[16:12] <cm13g09> ipsec ;)
[16:13] <cm13g09> = constant regotiation between servers....
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[16:19] <fsphil> that python plot thing is fantastic
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[16:21] <eroomde> it really is great
[16:21] <eroomde> ipython notebook in general is great
[16:22] <adamgreig> embedded charts pretty super
[16:22] <eroomde> being able to do markup and latex maths is just a wonder
[16:27] Nick change: Crashjuh -> Crashjuh|QTH
[16:28] <Laurenceb> http://assets.diyfail.com/hashed_silo_content/silo_content/31586/resized/faildonkey.jpg
[16:28] <cm13g09> fsphil: Having temporarily worked around it....
[16:29] <cm13g09> Puppet ran and promptly re-enabled the IPSec links...
[16:29] <cm13g09> breaking it :P
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[16:33] <eroomde> greetings ullas
[16:34] <ullas> hello eroomde
[16:35] <eroomde> did any of that make any sense?
[16:37] <ullas> eroomde: I'm actually downloading the video. I couldn't play while it was buffering, it was awfully slow on my machine.
[16:38] <Hix> of the pi users on here what is the general trend in programming C or Python?
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[16:38] <ullas> eroomde: But I seem to be familiar with iPython, so most of it (hopefully) makes sense to me
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[16:41] <fsphil> I've only used Python on the Pi so far
[16:41] <fsphil> it is quite nice
[16:42] <fsphil> not flown yet, not sure how reliable it's going to be :)
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[16:48] <Hix> I've been pointed towards wiringpi, which seems good. Thinking that the arduino knowledge could be useful, instead of learning more python to do things I've already achieved in C
[16:48] <daveake> wiringpi works well
[16:48] <daveake> I've only used it from C though not Python
[16:51] <eroomde> ullas: ok cool, good stuff
[16:54] <Hix> s'what i was getting at daveake, seems silly to not use the wee bit I've learned from arduino forays.
[16:55] <eroomde> these little motor driver chips are amazing
[16:55] <eroomde> or lying
[16:55] <eroomde> they're basically just soic packages
[16:56] <eroomde> yet claim to be able to ahndle motors of the order of 6A, 24V
[16:56] <cm13g09> eroomde: yes - I've seen similar
[16:56] <cm13g09> Student Robotics use a very special chip
[16:57] <cm13g09> I think it's good for at least 5A or so....
[16:57] <Laurenceb> any printer gurus here?
[16:57] <Laurenceb> i have a problem with "AuthInfoRequired username,password"
[16:57] <Laurenceb> in printers.conf
[16:57] <Laurenceb> for CUPS
[16:57] <Laurenceb> if its there it prompts me continually, if i remove it nothing works
[16:58] <fsphil> Hix: nice way to learn python :)
[16:59] <Hix> yes, I've been playing with learn the hard way and ipnb just thinking for projects I want to get going now C is going to be easier for me to achieve
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[17:14] <ullas> eroomde: I finished with part-1. I couldn't see the 'correlation' between the experiment and the content of the lecture. But, the lecture was fantastic. I liked how you explained the sine and cosine tracing a circle.
[17:14] <ullas> eroomde: Downloading part-2 now
[17:16] <eroomde> cool so you undersatdn that if you correlate against a sin wave and then correlate against a sin wave that is 90 degrees out of phase with the first (a cos wave), you can a point on the plot?
[17:17] <eroomde> the one the plot where sin is on the x axis and cos is on the y axis
[17:17] <ullas> eroomde: Yes, I understood that.
[17:18] <eroomde> ok cool
[17:18] <eroomde> and using trignometry, you can work out the angle between that dot on the plot and the x axis?
[17:18] <eroomde> trigonometry*
[17:19] <eroomde> that was a question, what i meant to say is are you happy with that idea
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[17:20] <eroomde> using the tan function
[17:20] <ullas> the inverse right?
[17:20] <eroomde> yep
[17:20] <ullas> ok.. so that's the phase angle!?
[17:20] <eroomde> well, that angle is the phase angle!
[17:20] <eroomde> yep!
[17:20] <ullas> ah!.. nice!
[17:21] <eroomde> so you can correlate the signal you pick up at the mic with the signal you send to the speaker (sine, or I) and a signal 90 degrees offset from it (cos, or Q)
[17:21] <eroomde> and do inverse tan
[17:21] <eroomde> et voila, phase angle
[17:22] <eroomde> and see how the phase angle changes with altitude or whatever as you go up
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> >1 speaker and mic, and you can work out wind direction too, for gusts
[17:22] <eroomde> it'd be a pretty cool experiment, and not one that i think anyone in ukhas has ever tried before
[17:23] <ullas> but the speaker and mic are situated inside the payload, right? would the speed of sound vary even if they're enclosed?
[17:23] <eroomde> you could leave them outside
[17:23] <eroomde> i'd put them in a tube
[17:23] <eroomde> speaker at one end, mic at the other
[17:23] <eroomde> have a couple of small airholes to keep the pressure balanced
[17:24] <eroomde> (balanced with ambient, that is)
[17:24] <eroomde> the tube should also help block off other rnadom noise from outside
[17:24] <ullas> hmm.. i see
[17:25] <eroomde> a bit like an organ pipe/standing wave experiment that you might have done at school
[17:25] <eroomde> (high school?)
[17:26] <ullas> yes. :)
[17:26] <ullas> i couldn't get the 'pressure balance' part..
[17:26] <ullas> why airholes?
[17:26] <eroomde> oh i see, sorry, i just meant that if the tube was sealed off (like a pressure vessel) then it obviously wouldn't work
[17:26] <eroomde> because it would just have 1 atmosphere of pressure inside
[17:27] <eroomde> but if you put some breathing holes in then it could be at the same pressure inside as outside
[17:27] <ullas> ah.. got it, thanks!
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[17:34] <mfa298> Hix: reading back a bit, unless you're already decent at C or really need the power it provides then python is probably a better choice.
[17:35] <Hix> really mfa298 ?
[17:36] <Hix> just beacuase of the learning curve? Or something else?
[17:36] <craag> It'll reduce the development time a bit
[17:36] <Hix> k
[17:36] <craag> being more high-level
[17:37] <eroomde> agree with this a lot, after doing quite a lot of embedded recently
[17:37] <mfa298> certainly for quick stuff then python should be good (I've only used similar stuff)
[17:37] <eroomde> purest joy to have list comprehensions and dictionaries again
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[17:38] <eroomde> thought writing a hashmap in C is a useful exercise, as with most datastructures and algorithms
[17:38] <Hix> all sounding a bit unanimous
[17:38] <mfa298> that said I'm using C for my Pi stuff but I'm probably doing it the wrong way!
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[17:38] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[17:38] <craag> mfa298: I'm using javascript, trust me, you're going the right way!
[17:39] <eroomde> i use C for daemons
[17:39] <mfa298> although you're not bit banging rtty out the gpio with that.
[17:39] <eroomde> getting stuff from peripherals/hardware to a text file of socket or whatever
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[17:39] <eroomde> or socket*
[17:39] <mfa298> I upset current students when I write daemons, most of the ones I've written are in perl!
[17:40] <craag> I use C whenever I have the time to get it right, often after I've prototyped it in a higher-level language such as javascript or python.
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[17:41] <mfa298> with C code it'll probably take longer to write and have 10x the lines as something similar in python. Although you get the warm glow of writing something that work (rather than crashing your Pi)
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[17:41] <craag> Agreed. Rewriting a js app in C to have 100x less ram footprint is very satisfying.
[17:42] <craag> A bit like working a HF contest with a valve rig actually.
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[17:44] <mfa298> is that a warm glow from all that RF leaking from the Linear?
[17:44] <craag> nah, rf burn off the mic ;)
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[17:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> craag: nice ;)
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[18:01] <eroomde> this is henry (CUSF alum's) startup
[18:01] <eroomde> http://www.parabolicarc.com/2013/11/26/planet-labs-send-flock-28-satellites-space-month/
[18:01] <arko> eroomde: im getting ready to starting writing my senior project proposals, my goal is the self driving golf cart, but if i cant raise the 20k, i may default to a gyroc like project
[18:02] <arko> woah cool
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[18:05] <eroomde> adamgreig: Julia
[18:05] <eroomde> looks like the language we wanted
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[18:06] <adamgreig> oh yes
[18:06] <adamgreig> I heard about this but didn't investigate much actually
[18:06] <adamgreig> you can run it inside ipython
[18:07] <eroomde> matlab stylr matrix creation
[18:07] <eroomde> JIT compiler
[18:07] <eroomde> does paralellism
[18:07] <eroomde> y = 3x^2 + pi
[18:07] <eroomde> evaluates correctly
[18:08] <adamgreig> oh nice
[18:09] Action: Reb-SM3ULC braindamaged. 3x^2 + rPi
[18:09] <eroomde> http://julialang.org/
[18:09] <eroomde> have a look at the parallel syntax
[18:10] <eroomde> basically just like an openMPI pragma
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[18:10] <eroomde> libraries also written in Julia, which is cool
[18:11] <eroomde> one of the numpy annoyances is when the bug is actually in fortran
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[18:11] Nick change: Lunar_Lander_ -> Lunar_Lander
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello!
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[18:11] <eroomde> and the JIT means you don't have to vecotorise everything, loops are just as fast
[18:11] <eroomde> awesome
[18:12] <eroomde> i might give this a whirl
[18:13] <eroomde> 1-indexing
[18:13] <eroomde> there's always something
[18:14] <eroomde> this could be the bomb for the gps receiver
[18:20] <Laurenceb> wtf
[18:20] <Laurenceb> how many languages
[18:20] <Laurenceb> stop creating new programming languages already
[18:20] AndroUser (~androirc@2600:1009:b02e:d866:687e:2271:7acc:fe3f) joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] <AndroUser> Hey
[18:21] <eroomde> go away Laurenceb
[18:21] <eroomde> hello AndroUser
[18:22] Nick change: AndroUser -> Jacob
[18:22] Nick change: Jacob -> TheRealJacob
[18:23] <TheRealJacob> How do you register a name on irc?
[18:26] <Hix> "/msg NickServ REGISTER password youremail@example.com"
[18:26] <TheRealJacob> Thank you Hix. I got it now
[18:27] <mfa298> although registering your nick isn't compulsory
[18:27] <mfa298> it can just mean other people can't use it
[18:27] <Hix> but he is the real jacob :)
[18:27] <TheRealJacob> Haha yes
[18:28] <Hix> all the others would be fakes, we'd never know
[18:28] <TheRealJacob> I'm using a mobile client so I have no idea what half these features are
[18:28] Action: mfa298 waits for TheRealEdward
[18:28] <mfa298> and if you don't get the reference think yourself lucky :D
[18:29] <TheRealJacob> I hope it isnt a twilight reference
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> LOL!
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[18:29] <TheRealJacob> Have any of you ever had problems using APRS with your balloons?
[18:29] Nick change: Hix -> TheReallyRealHix
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> APRS is not legal in the UK
[18:30] <mfa298> most of us don't use it as we can't use Amateur Radio Airborne
[18:31] <craag> We don't use it in the UK, but the only issues I've seen with APRS when used was due to dodgy GPSs in off-the-shelf APRS trackers.
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> (to be strictly accurate, APRS at the normal frequencies is not leagal airborne in the UK without a special licence that you can't get.
[18:31] <mfa298> APRS itself isn't illegal in the UK, but we can't use it in a useful way (as part of the Amateur radio network)
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> yes
[18:34] <craag> TheRealJacob: APRS works great (where it's permitted) just make sure to use a decent GPS module (eg ublox 7).
[18:41] <DL7AD> B-* balloons weak point
[18:41] <DL7AD> Rain 43% 8,10,15,17,18,19,20,23,24,26,28,30,31
[18:41] <DL7AD> Balloon Burst 17% 2,14,21,27,29
[18:41] <DL7AD> Battery empty 20% 3,4,5,6,7,25
[18:41] <DL7AD> Tech. Failure 7% 1,16
[18:41] <DL7AD> Receiver lack 13% 11,12,13,22
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> yay statistics!!
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> thank you :)
[18:41] <DL7AD> np :)
[18:43] <DL1SGP> nabend Sven und Lunar_Lander
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:45] <TheRealJacob> I'm in the US so aprs is okay with me. So in the US all i need to do is use the hx1 transmitter and aprs digipeters will pick it up for me yo see online?
[18:48] <DL1SGP> under the pretext that all works as planned that could be the case TheReal
[18:48] <DL1SGP> Jacob
[18:48] <fsphil> The Real Deal, so to speak
[18:49] <DL1SGP> heh
[18:49] <mfa298> TheRealJacob: assuming you're a licensed HAM operator then yes that should all work, just make sure you get a HX-1 on the right frequency (144.390 I think for USA)
[18:50] <TheRealJacob> I have my tech license. So I'm covered.
[18:51] <TheRealJacob> I'm looking at the ukhas wiki. Is there code anywhere that involves the hx1?
[18:53] <mfa298> I'm not sure there's much arps code around as most of us don't use it.
[18:53] <mfa298> you might find some code if you look for the Habduino.
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[19:08] <LeoBodnar> evening!
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello LeoBodnar
[19:08] <Upu> evening Leo
[19:08] <DL1SGP> good evening Leo
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> moin moin
[19:09] <TheRealJacob> mfa298 thanks for telling me about HABduino. I'm so happy now!
[19:09] <Upu> Me too mfa298 :)
[19:09] <DL1SGP> and if ye all are happy, then I am happy too!
[19:10] <TheRealJacob> HAPPY PARTY
[19:10] <Upu> If you want one of those speak to me in a PM TheRealJacob though the code and design are all open source
[19:10] Action: mfa298 thinks Upu should have a referal system :p
[19:10] <Upu> I have an unofficial one
[19:11] <Upu> webstat referrals
[19:11] <Upu> Dave usual wins
[19:11] <Upu> though for the last two months David Taylor has won
[19:11] <DL1SGP> heh
[19:11] <mfa298> I suspect dave gets more web hits per day than I get in a month.
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[19:12] <TheRealJacob> Upu how do you pm?
[19:12] <mfa298> that probably means I need to write some more pages on my site.
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> /privmsg Upu Blah!
[19:13] <Upu> I opened a window with you
[19:13] <Upu> may be at the top if you're using the web client
[19:15] <DL7AD> evening LeoBodnar
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> evening!
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[19:19] <anerDev> helo guys =D
[19:20] <DL1SGP> hi anerDev
[19:24] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-173-135-175.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:24] <anerDev> guys, there is a map for the wind direction during 1 year for Italy ?
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> hey S_Mark and anerDev
[19:26] <S_Mark> hey
[19:26] <anerDev> hey Lunar_Lander
[19:26] <mfa298> anerDev: you could try NOAA or whoever does the local forcasting in Italy to see if they have the data available.
[19:27] <mfa298> but it might be a case of getting raw data and then doing something with it.
[19:27] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[19:29] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: did yomething happen? :P last balloon launch is one week ago.
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[19:32] <LeoBodnar> yes, office move
[19:33] <DL7AD> into a tower for an automatic ballon launching machine?
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[19:40] <malgar> I miss the passage of the balloon :\
[19:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[19:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> Winds have been constantly form the north the passed weeks so not a thing close to qth...
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[19:48] <S_Mark> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/2013/11/santas-pre-christmas-sleigh-test.html
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> Cool
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> so you'll get a tracking car computer like Dave?
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:49] <S_Mark> haha no no
[19:52] <mfa298> S_Mark: good to see a whiteboard being put to good use!
[19:53] <S_Mark> It's been on there for weeks lol, we got it for project planning but had no where to put it so it is now in our dining room
[19:57] <mfa298> well project planning with a good picture beats that standard lots of unreadable text.
[19:57] Action: cm13g09 returns with working IPSec
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[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:07] <cm13g09> S_Mark: nice story ;)
[20:08] <S_Mark> Ha cheers, yeah hope it comes off now. It's all ready to go, no pics yet though :p
[20:08] <cm13g09> best of luck to you!
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> :) cool
[20:11] <S_Mark> Thanks very much! Hoping this weekend but will see what the wind does
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[20:27] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> Is anybody gonna fly Thor or DomEX/FEC anytime soon?
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> evening James
[20:28] <x-f> Tom?
[20:28] <x-f> evening
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[20:28] <LeoBodnar> Tom has FEC implemented?
[20:29] <arko> If MobileNathan comes online someone please let him know I won't make it to the hackspace tonight
[20:29] <mfa298> from the quick looking I've done it sounds like Thor might be a better route than DomEX+FEC, although I've not found a lot of detail about Thor in my quick googling.
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> I have found a lot of suggestions that Domex 8 performs better than Thor 16
[20:30] <fsphil> thor IS domex+FEC
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> Not really
[20:31] <mfa298> my understanding was that there is also a DomEX+FEC mode that's seperate to Thor.
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> Don't they use MFSK rather than varicode?
[20:31] <fsphil> it uses the mfsk character set
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> that's what I have thought as well
[20:32] <fsphil> the fec will help protect against fading
[20:32] <fsphil> the interleaver spreads the data out a bit
[20:32] <Upu> I'll fly one when I get this payload working
[20:32] <Upu> but had an accident and fried my programmer :)
[20:33] <jcoxon> hey LeoBodnar
[20:33] <fsphil> I've got an ntx2b to try it on, hopefully work better than the ntx2a
[20:33] <fsphil> whatever radio you use to do domex should be perfect
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> Thor does not use pulse shaping, does it?
[20:34] <mfa298> fsphil: whilst I've not tried significant cooling of the ntx2b yet it is seems to work well for DominoEX with the pi.
[20:35] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: the modulation is identical to domex
[20:35] <mfa298> with the room temperature to outside cooling the ntx2 on the same board has drifted from one end of the waterfall to the other (so a big difference)
[20:35] <fsphil> olivia uses pulse shaping
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> and proper CW :D
[20:37] <fsphil> I don't think there's much to be gained in range by using FEC
[20:38] <fsphil> just make it more reliable in the current ranges
[20:38] <craag> fsphil: Tracking from the chase car would be greatly improved.
[20:38] <LeoBodnar> It might help from annoying punching QRM
[20:38] <fsphil> yes
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> Also massive Domex alphabet (two actually) is a liability to our needs
[20:41] <mfa298> I was wondering earlier whether you could do interesting things by using the one alphabet for telemetry and the other for ssdv (or similar)
[20:41] <fsphil> too slow for imaging
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> Can't be worse than RTTY
[20:42] <LeoBodnar> Conceptually
[20:42] <fsphil> there is a thor100 mode
[20:43] <mfa298> I was thinking about the DomEX44 / DomEX88 in the newer fldigi release
[20:44] <fsphil> thor100 does seem somewhat similar to rtty at 300 baud
[20:44] <fsphil> and crashed fldigi when I stopped it :)
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> We need to fly more modes
[20:46] <Upu> jcoxon flew Hellschriber a few times
[20:46] <Upu> thats very interactive
[20:46] <jcoxon> i like Hell
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> I love it
[20:47] <jcoxon> there is something about it
[20:47] <Upu> people have to use these crazy devices called "pens" to decode it
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> Something primeval
[20:47] <jcoxon> Upu, mainly eyes
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[20:47] <Upu> well yes
[20:47] <jcoxon> next time i launch i'll launch a full hellschrieber payload
[20:47] <jcoxon> on a latex floater
[20:48] <fsphil> there was a bit of a contest to get the data entered
[20:48] <jcoxon> (seperate to what ever i'm doing the launch for)
[20:48] <fsphil> slave labour
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> I want mechanical Siemens
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> TCXO should produce beautifully straight output
[20:50] <jcoxon> yes that is true
[20:50] <jcoxon> then you need to get the timing just right
[20:50] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[21:07] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[21:12] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[21:14] <mattbrejza> anyone good with fatfs?
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[21:50] <Willdude123_> Wow packet radio really sounds fascinating
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, btw
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> I got a song for you
[21:51] <mikestir> go and listen to the ongoing funcube pass - that's even better
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BY7lAmmv1E
[21:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> After 11 years of running Nodes and a BBS I can assure you its no different than the Net at slow speed!
[21:52] <Willdude123_> mikestir, not sure if my long piece of wire will get it
[21:52] <mikestir> it's loud and clear here on a telescopic
[21:53] <mikestir> loads of ssb on the transponder
[21:53] <S_Mark> w
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[21:53] <S_Mark> what is this Lunar_Lander lol
[21:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Didn't know I'd left!
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> this is a space song :P
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> he sang it in english as well
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg_j4hkVJWY
[21:54] <mfa298> If you can hear a decent amount of packet on 2m (presumably 144.800) then you should have a fair chance at hearing the Funcube Satellite
[21:54] <S_Mark> 1983
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:55] <S_Mark> very 80s
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[21:56] <bertrik> yeah, the funcube-1 is a rather nice amateur satellite, pretty "loud" and it has nice decoding software (windows) and a good website with real-time data and packet upload stats
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[21:57] <DL1SGP> Funcube is Fun
[21:57] <mikestir> what's its expected lifetime?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, yeah
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> I like the NASA clips
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> the Viking and Pioneer Venus ones at the end
[21:58] <S_Mark> yeah
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> Pioneer Venus 2 landed December 9, 1978
[21:59] <Willdude123_> mfa298 Not sure I can
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> 11 years exactly before I was born
[22:00] <Willdude123_> Is there a map or is geostationary?
[22:01] Action: DL1SGP takes notice of the subtile statement of Lunar_Lander celebrating a bday soon
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:01] <mfa298> you might need to find some suitable satellite tracking software and give it the right data to know when passes are happening.
[22:01] <mikestir> Willdude123_: next decent passes will be tomorrow at 1115h and 2219h
[22:01] <mikestir> ish
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, DL1SGP and this is my own work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhCF8YhWgY
[22:06] <DL1SGP> nice Lunar_Lander
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[22:11] <S_Mark_> Sorry got disconnected\
[22:11] <S_Mark_> was there a video?
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> I made this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhCF8YhWgY
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[22:12] <S_Mark> ah cool!
[22:13] <S_Mark> will have a look shortly
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> btw, this is linux: "23:11:26 up 14 days, 1:59"
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:13] <Upu> ?
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[22:14] <mfa298> only 14 days ?!?
[22:14] <Upu> 22:13:51 up 791 days, 6:17, 1 user, load average: 0.01
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:14] <craag> Lunar_Lander: The machine running this irc client: 22:14:42 up 72 days, 21:58,
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> oh :)
[22:15] <mfa298> 22:00:31 up 204 days,
[22:15] <mfa298> I remember seeing a story a few years of someone complaining as they found a bug where the uptime days wrapped around.
[22:15] <Upu> it was me
[22:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> Upu: good to know when searching for available attack vectors.. ;)
[22:15] <Upu> we had it
[22:15] <ve6ts> Upu awesome, that is a great uptime
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[22:15] <mfa298> although I think that was around 300 days.
[22:15] <ve6ts> i've had 500 days before
[22:16] <Upu> Its not public Reb-SM3ULC
[22:16] <ve6ts> shockingly not on a UPS
[22:16] <mfa298> I've seen solaris boxes wih ~3 years uptime.
[22:16] <craag> I reboot for patches :)
[22:16] <Upu> we don't patch it
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:16] <Upu> because linux sucks donkey genitallia sometimes and if we do everything will break
[22:16] <mfa298> and with a proper sun box you should be able to manage many years even with patches and upgrades :D
[22:16] <bertrik> I shut down/suspend my computers to save power
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the only patches that require reboot is when a new kernel comes
[22:16] <ve6ts> we had a bad flood this year, worst in 100 years, flooded all of the downtown, power was out
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> at least on ubuntu
[22:17] <ve6ts> killed all of my great uptimes
[22:17] <ve6ts> my switch was up since we moved in until that happened
[22:17] <Upu> we had the wrap round bug on a previous box
[22:17] <ve6ts> power was out for 5 days
[22:17] <Upu> it wasn't actually that much
[22:17] <Upu> 400 days or so
[22:17] <bertrik> I think ubuntu used to have kexec (IIRC) that rebooted the kernel without rebooting the machine
[22:17] <Upu> this is a few years ago
[22:17] <Upu> right dog needs a walk bbs
[22:18] <mfa298> Real Unix systems you can partition off CPUs and Memory, upgrade on some CPUs leaving the existing OS and Apps running on the others, then cut over. None of that rebooting stuff (although I don't think that was officially supported)
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[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Linux does that
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Just not on normal hardware
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[23:00] <Laurenceb_> my last uptime was limited only by hard drive disintegration
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> my file server - had been spun up for ~5 years
[23:07] <fsphil> I'm not too bothered about rebooting
[23:07] <fsphil> at least I know it'll come back up
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[23:09] <mfa298> I try to go for the regular patching. It reduces the stress when the next remote kernel exploit get's announced (at least you know the box has been rebooting happily)
[23:10] <fsphil> I've a raspberry pi at 143 days uptime in the shed
[23:10] <fsphil> despite a power cut yesterday
[23:10] <mfa298> or with Solaris you just don't care as Oracle don't tell you anything or provide patches unless you pay $$$
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> im tempted to try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> but the price is going up not down :-/
[23:10] <cm13g09> mfa298: Ah,... Oracle....
[23:11] <cm13g09> the general thorn in everyone's backside ;)
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[00:00] --- Wed Nov 27 2013