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[00:25] <DL7AD> good morning
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[00:31] <SpeedEvil> Check out @elonmusk's Tweet: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/400776254082666496
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> inconel 3d printer
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[00:36] <F1src> Hello, sorry i have a problem with my antenna, i think it's done for me to receive B31 :(
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[00:58] <f1src> Very little signal, decoding some data, no good
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[01:02] <f1src> Signal from B31 is in the noise, no decoding here in IN87KM, antenna pb or coax :(, it's done for me, 73.
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[05:53] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[05:55] <DL7AD> good morning. b-31 could be received by barcelona
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[06:35] <DL7AD> morning
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[06:54] <nats_laptop> hi
[06:54] <nats_laptop> is the tracker dead ?
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[07:00] <nats_laptop> hi Geoff-G8DHE
[07:00] <nats_laptop> could you try the tracker page and say if it's working
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[07:00] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[07:00] <nats_laptop> not sure it's borken or me the problem
[07:04] <nats_laptop> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.kml in the googlemap search box is doing the job
[07:04] <DL7AD> nats_laptop: have the same problems
[07:05] <nats_laptop> go to maps .google.com
[07:05] <nats_laptop> and enter the kml url in the search box
[07:05] <nats_laptop> you'll have to refresh but you'll see the path :)
[07:06] <nats_laptop> he should be soon on aprs
[07:06] <nats_laptop> it's on the spanish border
[07:07] <nats_laptop> at least now I'msure all the qrm on 230MHz band is from the industrial area
[07:07] <nats_laptop> nothing at night and no plenty of crap
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[07:17] <x-f> what is broken with it?
[07:18] <x-f> snus works for me
[07:18] <nats_laptop> no map display at all
[07:19] <x-f> have you refreshed it?
[07:19] <nats_laptop> I still have a white screen
[07:19] <nats_laptop> yes
[07:19] <x-f> looks like it has switched to google maps v3
[07:19] <Maxell> Intresting: loading that kml file in the new Google Maps" doesn't work here. It tells me it can't fine that location.
[07:20] <Maxell> nats_laptop: some kind of https enforcer/adblocker?
[07:20] <nats_laptop> nop
[07:20] <Maxell> nats_laptop: tried a CTRL+F5 (force reload)
[07:20] <nats_laptop> and yesterday evening was working
[07:20] <nats_laptop> yep already
[07:20] <Maxell> Or CTRL+r should do the same
[07:20] <x-f> tested with Chrome, Safari, FF and IE - blank page in IE
[07:20] <Maxell> hmmm
[07:20] <Maxell> nats_laptop: using IE?
[07:21] <nats_laptop> -_-
[07:21] <nats_laptop> are you mad :D
[07:21] <nats_laptop> firefox on linux on this case
[07:22] <x-f> nats, http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=7&call=a%2FHB-B-31%2Ca%2FM0XER-10&timerange=86400&tail=86400
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[07:22] <Maxell> nats_laptop: good, good
[07:22] <nats_laptop> sorry but hae to go at work
[07:23] <nats_laptop> I'll recheck this evening
[07:23] <Maxell> Firefox 28.0a1 (nightly) working fine here...
[07:23] <nats_laptop> if till white I'll do a more in depth bug search :)
[07:23] <Maxell> ack
[07:23] <nats_laptop> aprs.fi is working correctly
[07:23] <nats_laptop> (for information)
[07:23] <sa6bss> white screen here to on both computers and phone
[07:24] <x-f> shit's broken, yo
[07:24] <nats_laptop> internet borken ?!!! time to panic !
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[07:27] <Maxell> No time to panic, time for work :-)
[07:29] <DL7AD> :( i do not like google-maps-api3... its working that slow on my computer...
[07:31] <f5vnf> so who's the idiot who didnt put his handdbrake on properly so the car rolled into his mast,
[07:32] <DL7AD> whose mast?
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[07:38] <DL7AD> Spacenear went incredible slow....
[07:39] <fsphil> not getting the map here
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[07:42] <DL7AD> fsphil: try STRG+F5
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[07:46] <f5vnf> dl7ad my own, yagi now lying on the floor
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[07:50] <DL7AD> f5vnf: sorry? your yagi is not ready to go?
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[07:52] <f5vnf> dl7ad with b31 this close am off outside to see what can be rescued
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[07:52] <DL7AD> f5vnf: okay
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[08:07] <DL7AD> F6HTJ wrote an email to me: good rx this morning after 07:10 utc but no decode....
[08:07] <DL7AD> No more "pip" after 08:57 utc
[08:07] <DL7AD> 434.500 is qrm 55 here...
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[08:09] <DL7AD> fsphil: is spacenear also that slow on your computer? https://www.dropbox.com/s/hm401w0sx42v9l8/VID_20131120_090251.mp4
[08:10] <fsphil> DL7AD: not working at all
[08:11] <DL7AD> even not with STRG+F5? what does firebug say?
[08:11] <DL7AD> *tell
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[08:24] <fsphil> use the mobile tracker for now
[08:24] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
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[08:36] <seventeen> something in the logtail: $$B931,281,073750,131120,rr2.5512,2.57I9,2083,411,3.71j0.5*530d\n
[08:36] <x-f> by who?
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[08:36] <fsphil> B-931
[08:37] <fsphil> isn't that next week?
[08:37] <seventeen> f6htj
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[08:39] <x-f> actually B-31 could right above HJT according to the prediction
[08:40] <x-f> F6HTJ*
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[08:42] <DL7AD> x-f f6htj wrote an email to me this morning
[08:42] <DL7AD> good rx this morning after 07:10 utc but no decode....
[08:42] <DL7AD> No more "pip" after 08:57 utc
[08:42] <DL7AD> 434.500 is qrm 55 here...
[08:42] <DL7AD> Will look after 12:00 utc
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[08:43] <x-f> 9 UTC is in the future
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[08:43] <x-f> maybe his 19el yagi (!) is too directional
[08:44] <fsphil> directional in the 4th dimension
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[08:45] <DL7AD> he wrote that mail 45min ago. i think he means utc
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[08:45] <DL7AD> ehm no it should be local time
[08:46] <seventeen> looks like it may have come down on land : 42.6319,2.4883 and 2000m
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[08:48] <x-f> noooooooooooooo
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[08:50] <UpuWork> morning Leo
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[08:50] <UpuWork> seventeen the ground is 368m at that location
[08:50] <UpuWork> so I suspect something is wrong
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[08:51] <UpuWork> oh there is piles of data in the log
[08:51] <UpuWork> hang on
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[08:54] <UpuWork> I think it was coming down
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[08:58] <UpuWork> http://pastebin.com/4D2q2YMD
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[09:01] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> 'Morning - Leo's doing a pincer movement on the Eu :-)
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[09:06] <DL1SGP> morning all :)
[09:06] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Hi Felix
[09:06] <DL1SGP> Hi Steve :)
[09:07] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> I'm just about to re-read the UKHAS page on how to drive an NTX2 from an AVR (Arduino)
[09:07] <UpuWork> oh steve
[09:07] <UpuWork> I redid it
[09:07] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=617
[09:07] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Yep?
[09:07] <UpuWork> here http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=627
[09:08] <UpuWork> and
[09:08] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Oh cool, thanks
[09:08] <UpuWork> here http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=633
[09:08] <UpuWork> basics, rtty and dominoex
[09:08] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Ohhh!
[09:08] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Excellent Anthony, thank you
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[09:08] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Now I REALLY have to wake up LOL
[09:08] <UpuWork> will get round to putting it on the wiki
[09:08] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> :-)
[09:09] <LeoBodnar> morning
[09:09] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Hiya Leo
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[09:09] <DL7AD> good morning LeoBodnar
[09:09] <DL1SGP> yo LeoBodnar
[09:09] <DL1SGP> Moin moin Sven
[09:09] <DL7AD> bye
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[09:10] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Moin moin (Good Morning?)
[09:10] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ_AFK -> Steve_G0TDJ
[09:10] <DL7AD> Steve_G0TDJ_AFK: yes
[09:10] <DL7AD> Steve_G0TDJ: yes
[09:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'll remember that
[09:10] <fsphil> or a cat with the flu
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[09:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL
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[09:11] <Steve_G0TDJ> LeoBodnar: I said earlier you were doing a pincer movement on the eu - B-30 that way and B-31 the other
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[09:12] <LeoBodnar> heh
[09:13] <Steve_G0TDJ> Either that or you have vey wide arms
[09:13] <Steve_G0TDJ> very
[09:13] <fsphil> giving it a hug
[09:13] <Steve_G0TDJ> Awwww
[09:13] <fsphil> come here europe. don't listen to those nasty torys
[09:13] <fsphil> there there now
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[09:14] <fsphil> the difference in flight paths just a few days apart is impressive
[09:14] <Steve_G0TDJ> Quite amazing
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[09:15] <cionki> hi
[09:15] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi
[09:15] <fsphil> morning
[09:15] <cionki> I was reading the code on the page http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=633
[09:15] <fsphil> thunderbird doesn't like moving 46000 emails
[09:15] Nick change: f5vnf -> f5vnf_
[09:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> I was just about to cionki, well after the NTX bit
[09:16] <cionki> there is something that I dont get ... on the function dominoex_txchar(uint16_t code)
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[09:18] <fsphil> hehe
[09:18] <fsphil> code isn't used
[09:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> Can you explain Phil?
[09:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> Is it a place holder?
[09:19] <fsphil> the uint16_t code being passed into the function isn't actually referenced
[09:19] <cionki> for example varicode1 is not defined anywhere and the "code" paramenter is not used? or I m wrong ?
[09:19] <fsphil> nah suspect it's a typo
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[09:20] <fsphil> there's no varicode1 either
[09:20] <cionki> maybe it is something like "c = varicode[code][i];"
[09:20] <fsphil> yes
[09:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Well, I'm going to read the RTTY bit - Back soon
[09:21] <fsphil> and code doesn't need to be uint16_t .. change that to uint8_t
[09:21] <fsphil> oh wait
[09:21] <fsphil> secondary char set
[09:21] <fsphil> it can be > 255
[09:21] <fsphil> leave it at uint16_t
[09:23] <cionki> i'm not expert in radio transmissions i'm just reading the code to understand better the logic behind it :) I think that i have understand the main/basic concept of dominoEX, but I have a noob question to do ... can i bother you ?
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[09:26] <LeoBodnar> 1.9m/s descent rate. Sounds like a burst to me
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[09:30] <PE2G> Good morning.
[09:30] <fsphil> cionki: don't ask to ask :)
[09:30] <DL1SGP> goedenmorgen PE2G
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[09:31] <PE2G> I see there have been some changes to the tracker site
[09:31] <cionki> ahahah ok I'm new in this world and in about 5-6month I think that i will launch my first baloon :)
[09:31] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes i cant se noting on the tracker site now ?
[09:31] <PE2G> Now the map won't show anymore in the Opera browser
[09:31] <PE2G> http://s23.postimg.org/xiwg2eqln/Screen1211.jpg
[09:32] <fsphil> yea google broke it :)
[09:32] <cionki> my doubt is about that piece of code if(i && !(c & 0x8)) break; always from the previous function
[09:33] <cionki> I understand what it's making but I dont get the reason to do a bitwise and with c and 0x8
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[09:33] <craag> Alternative (working) tracker page: http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
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[09:33] <craag> PE2G: Herman-PB0AHX ^^
[09:34] <Herman-PB0AHX> tnx
[09:35] <Herman-PB0AHX> now i see B-31 is in spain & frans
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[09:35] <PE2G> Thanks craag. The mobile tracker won't work in Opera either :(
[09:35] <PE2G> Keeps loading
[09:35] <craag> :(
[09:37] <fsphil> cionki: from what I remember (been a while since I did dominoex), if the 4-bit MSB is not set on the 2nd or 3rd symbol it moves on to the next character.
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[09:37] <fsphil> which is an odd way of doing things
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[09:38] <cionki> ok I get it thankyou
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[09:41] <EA4GLI> I can hear B-31 from Madrid
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[09:43] <EA4GLI> I can barely hear it with the yagi, but S7 with the X510
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[09:45] <LeoBodnar> Are you certain it is B-31?
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> That's quite a distance if it is!
[09:46] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[09:50] <F1src> Hello, problem this morning with spacenear.us/tracke, no map on the screen, same pb with two pc, google map is ok, have you a idea ?
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[09:51] <craag> F1src: http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[09:51] <jphoglund> F1src, seems to work just fine for me
[09:51] <craag> spacenear.us is written using the old google maps api, which was deprecated yesterday
[09:51] <jphoglund> hmm
[09:51] <craag> THey've put in a 'compatability layer' but it doesn't seem to work in all browsers
[09:52] <jphoglund> k
[09:52] <F1src> Thank's for the information, thank's for the link, it's work.
[09:52] <jphoglund> works with firefox on a mac
[09:53] <fsphil> no luck with the fox on linux or windows
[09:53] <fsphil> or chrome on windows
[09:53] <F1src> I use Firefox 25.0.1 win7, pb also under Firefox 25.0.1 and XP
[09:56] <nats`> back
[09:59] <jphoglund> mac chrome seems to work too
[10:00] <nats`> there was any modification between yesterday and today ?
[10:00] <nats`> because yesterday evening that was working on my linux/firefox(24) and this morning nothing
[10:00] <nats`> I have the same probleme here with windows xp and firefox 25.0.1
[10:00] <craag> nats`: Yes, google made a big modification :)
[10:01] <nats`> working yesterday dead this morning
[10:01] <nats`> ohh oky :)
[10:01] <craag> You'll have to use the mobile tracker.
[10:01] <DL1SGP> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[10:02] <nats`> oky got the link
[10:02] <DL1SGP> :)
[10:02] <nats`> not nice as spacenear.us but will do the trick
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[10:02] <craag> spacenear.us will be fixed in time
[10:02] <DL1SGP> still better than seeing nothing :)
[10:03] <EA4GLI> Hi Leo
[10:03] <EA4GLI> Yes it was, I had to point NW from Madrid to hear it with the yagi
[10:04] <EA4GLI> and that is about right as far as the spacenear.us map
[10:04] <craag> EA4GLI: Are you decoding with dl-fldigi?
[10:04] <nats`> craag DL1SGP that was not a bad remark :)
[10:04] <nats`> just miss the link to station on point :)
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[10:05] <LeoBodnar> cool
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> EA4GLI: when did you hear it last?
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[10:06] <craag> nats`: Yeah I don't like it as much either, but at least you can see where the balloons are!
[10:09] <EA4GLI> about 12 minutes ago
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[10:10] <LeoBodnar> oh!
[10:10] <Maxell> Yeah new map seems to work on firefox 25.0.1 :
[10:10] <EA4GLI> Hi Craag, I don´t think I am decoding... either that, the signal is so weak that I cannot decode
[10:10] <Maxell> And seems to be a bit nicer to this cute pentium 4 cpu
[10:11] <EA4GLI> Leo, do you guys have a mailing list or twitter account to alert of new launches?
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[10:12] <malgar> LeoBodnar: when will you update the NOAA forecast?
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[10:12] <mattbrejza> first visit to andorra it seems
[10:12] <malgar> I'm in Italy and I could set uo a receiving station
[10:13] <EA4GLI> Correction, I meant to type NE from Madrid
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[10:15] <LeoBodnar> Last known B-31 position was here at 2000m at 0738 UTC this morning https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=42.55,2.57&ll=42.549034,2.570801&spn=1.226179,2.469177&t=m&z=9
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> malgar: I will in a minute
[10:15] <nats`> 2km over the pyrénée ?
[10:15] <nats`> it's on the ground :p
[10:16] <nats`> woohhh near my uncle house !
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> And it was descending at 2m/s
[10:17] <EA4GLI> Have to get back to work. Will join tomorrow. Talk to you soon. Later Leo, Craag.
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> cheers!
[10:17] <nats`> LeoBodnar I think it's on the ground
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[10:20] <LeoBodnar> How can it be heard from Madrid then?
[10:20] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: -2m/s is speedy.. :/
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[10:22] <nats`> I don't know that's strange
[10:22] <nats`> since there is a mountain chain between madrid and the balloon
[10:23] <nats`> I know this area pretty well
[10:23] <nats`> maybe some sort of scattering ?
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> hmmm
[10:24] <nats`> does the perpignan station heard it ?
[10:24] <Laurenceb__> Andorra!
[10:24] <nats`> I can't see it on the mobile tracker
[10:24] <Laurenceb__> looks like a cool place to live
[10:24] <Laurenceb__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caldea.jpg
[10:25] <nats`> https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=42.55,2.57&ll=42.549034,2.570801&spn=1.226179,2.469177&t=m&z=9 <= LeoBodnar the canigou is a 2800m mountain
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: these buildings are HAB-friendly
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> nats`: puzzle
[10:28] <nats`> shit that I'm not in holidays I could have tried to retrieve it
[10:28] <nats`> :\
[10:28] <nats`> best hope is the perpignan station
[10:28] <mattbrejza> they dont like being caught mind you
[10:28] <nats`> you have a direct line of sight from perpignan to the canigou
[10:29] <Laurenceb__> unless there was a catastrophic burst like the one over france
[10:29] <nats`> (for information I installed chrome on my windows xp and the tracker is still a white page.)
[10:29] <nats`> have you the last temperature value ?
[10:29] <nats`> should be really cold
[10:29] <nats`> they have snow if I'm not wrong on the canigou at the moment
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[10:30] <nats`> http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-france/saillagouse/66800
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ it is garbled, I would say -11C
[10:31] <nats`> he passed here
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[10:31] <nats`> there is a -15
[10:32] <nats`> http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-france/prades/66500
[10:32] <nats`> the meteo station near the last point you gave
[10:33] <nats`> and for information la bastide where the ballon was last seen is at an altitude of 800m
[10:34] <nats`> if you could contact the guy in perpignan maybe we could have news
[10:34] <eroomde> that's one tall bastard
[10:35] <nats`> Surface : 15.63 km² (1 563 hectares)
[10:35] <nats`> Altitude minimum : 545 m
[10:35] <nats`> Altitude maximum : 1 780 m
[10:35] <nats`> Altitude moyenne : 1 163 m
[10:35] <eroomde> both B30 and B31 flew less than a mile (over the ground) from me
[10:35] <eroomde> i should get my shit together
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[10:42] <DL1SGP> shit in terms of SHM (Surface-to-Hab-Missile) guided model rocket?
[10:43] <nats`> Hab Retrival System Rocket Based
[10:43] <nats`> HRSRB
[10:43] <fsphil> if a model rocket can fly, surely it's not a model?
[10:44] <DL1SGP> it is if it is a replica of a Saturn-V for instance :)
[10:44] <Maxell> DL1SGP: 1:1 replica :P
[10:45] <DL1SGP> hehe Maxell, might be hard to get launch permission for that one, but you can try to ask your local authorities about it
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[10:45] <nats`> DL1SGP harder to hide before the launch :p
[10:45] <Maxell> "Yo guys I found this piece of junk, do you guys mind me testing it" :P
[10:45] <nats`> need to dig a hole in the center of the house :p
[10:45] <fsphil> that's where you need a base under a volcano
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[10:47] <nats`> fsphil + no need of heating for the winter
[10:47] <nats`> free energy to fry the bacon
[10:47] <nats`> no more wet tissue after the shower
[10:47] <nats`> I love that
[10:47] <Maxell> yes and on top of the vulcano perfect antenna placement
[10:47] <mfa298> I thought you hid the rocket under a retractable swimming pool, Isn't that what they did on Tracy Island
[10:48] <Maxell> Underfloor heating ftw
[10:48] <nats`> a lava bucket is not really a swimming pool :D
[10:48] <nats`> let's model that in minecraft :D
[10:49] Action: DL1SGP never played minecraft :)
[10:50] <nats`> I did for some hours
[10:50] <nats`> and after was WTF I'm doing
[10:50] <nats`> :D
[10:51] <DL1SGP> we could host a minecraft server which is online for the time that isleoflying.com indicates NO
[10:51] <DL1SGP> :D
[10:51] <nats`> or model the landing area on minecraft !
[10:52] <nats`> or have a life...
[10:52] <DL1SGP> by the withdrawal symptoms we would be getting a minecraft world made of pixel crafted habs and stuff
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[10:55] <DL1SGP> Good Day Matt :) how are yor projects going?
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Felix
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> I've just had a maths test, got a physics one later :/
[10:56] <ibanezmatt13> projects on hold
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[11:06] <DL1SGP> ah good luck!
[11:06] <DL1SGP> well there he left already sighs
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[11:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> Any AVR experts here. I have a question
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[11:20] <fsphil> just ask
[11:20] <eroomde> don't ask to ask just ask etc
[11:20] <eroomde> also here is a life truth
[11:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Or I could always throw it open; If I'm powering an AVR from 3.3v, does it stand to reason that the digital outputs will only ever get to 3v for logic 1?
[11:20] <eroomde> It is very difficult to design a good pressure sensor that is not also a good temperature sensor
[11:21] <eroomde> it's *always* better to throw it open
[11:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> :-)
[11:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah the mobile tracker that is currently replacing snus alsoseems to have failed ?
[11:21] <eroomde> without qualification
[11:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Is that a yes Ed?
[11:21] <eroomde> the pins should be 3.3V too
[11:21] <fsphil> Steve_G0TDJ: 3.3v
[11:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK Cool, then I've found my problem
[11:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'm getting the "No vehicles :-(" reported
[11:21] <fsphil> unless something is badly wrong the logic levels will be the same as GND and VCC
[11:21] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: which browser?
[11:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> ff
[11:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK Some maths help needed now....
[11:21] <fsphil> hmm
[11:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> But I need a cuppa first. brb
[11:22] <fsphil> working ok in firefox here
[11:22] <fsphil> maths? /me sits down again...
[11:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> it was working earlier just come up to the desk machine and its not
[11:22] <mfa298> FF and win8 seem to be ok with mobile tracker for me (apart from missing balloons - but visible payloads)
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[11:23] <fsphil> standard tracker seems to work for some people, which is odd as it should have been broken for everyone
[11:23] <eroomde> it's broken for me on ff on osx
[11:23] <eroomde> works ok on ff on ubuntu
[11:23] <eroomde> works ok on chrome everywhere
[11:23] <fsphil> you can still get to the standard one at: http://spacenear.us/tracker/fullscreen.php
[11:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> The original was working for me, until I cleared cache and refreshed, but then it started working again shortlyafterwards
[11:23] <eroomde> the standard one is boken for me on ff on osx
[11:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> I've just got Upu's code working on my new board http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=627 On that page, he assumes 5v. I need the shift values for 3.3v instead.
[11:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> is there an address to reach the standard one
[11:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> I just can't get my brains round the figures
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[11:24] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: http://spacenear.us/tracker/fullscreen.php
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[11:25] <eroomde> have you got the AVR datasheet infront of you on the PWM section?
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup just saw it, only partially working this time weird
[11:25] <Steve_G0TDJ> No Ed, but I can find it
[11:25] <eroomde> you'll need this, otherwise it's just witchcraft
[11:25] <eroomde> that datasheet explains what it is those registers are actually doing
[11:26] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK Looking now, I have it on my HD somewhere
[11:26] <fsphil> youtube really is horrible now
[11:26] <eroomde> you're amining to get a mark/space ratio which, when multiplied by 3.3V, will give you the same mark/space voltages going into the NTX2
[11:26] <UpuWork> Steve_G0TDJ
[11:26] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Anthony
[11:27] <UpuWork> the voltage should only be 0-3V anyway even on a 5V µC as the max input on the NTX2B is 3V
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right two machines both running Win7x64 the laptop downstairs working fine, on both trackers and the machine in the shack not happy with either!
[11:27] <Steve_G0TDJ> Well, I've got my board working, (with a diffefent PWM Pin) and only getting 274Hz shift
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[11:28] <UpuWork> just keep incrementing the value until you get the shift what you want, gives you software changable shift
[11:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yes, but I was trying to understand what was going on
[11:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> I also don't want to overdrive it (is that possible with 3.3v?)
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Both FF 25.01 version browsers as well!
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[11:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah a second clear cache and the original is working fine, mobile still can't see anything :/
[11:30] <eroomde> Steve_G0TDJ: are you happy with the notion of how PWM can be used as a DAC?
[11:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> What's a DAC? :-)
[11:30] <eroomde> digital to analogue converter
[11:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh, I sort of get it but not in detial
[11:30] <UpuWork> you want to understand it ? My work here is done
[11:31] <eroomde> so to rephrase, are you happy with the idea that you can USE PWM to (with a low pass filter) create a set voltage?
[11:31] <UpuWork> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btViXvIDsi0#t=416
[11:31] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yes
[11:31] <eroomde> ok
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[11:31] <UpuWork> that video at that point how I feel now :)
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[11:32] <eroomde> so the task of generating the correct input voltage to the ntx2b is therefore the task of fidning the right mark/space ratio for the pwm
[11:32] <Steve_G0TDJ> UpuWork: I also want to understand why I'm getting 274Hz shift and not 425
[11:32] <eroomde> i.e. in a given pulse cycle, the ratio of time it spends on vs spends off
[11:32] <eroomde> you will in a second
[11:32] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK
[11:32] <UpuWork> listen to Ed
[11:32] <UpuWork> I've over simplified it
[11:32] <Steve_G0TDJ> Listening (intently)
[11:32] <eroomde> i find light bulbs a good analogy here
[11:32] <eroomde> you're standing by the light switch
[11:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Didn'y know IRC had a sound ?
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[11:33] <eroomde> you turn the light on, it goes on, you turn the light off, it goes off
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> He sees the light
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[11:33] <eroomde> if you turn the light on and off really really quickly, say 1ms on, 1ms off, it doesn't have enough time to completely heat up or cool down, so instead it'll just glow at 50% brightness
[11:34] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yep
[11:34] <eroomde> 50% because you're spending an equal amount of time on and off
[11:34] <Steve_G0TDJ> 50% duty cycle?
[11:34] <eroomde> if you bump to 1.5ms on, 0.5ms off, it'll appear to be glowing at 75% brightness, etc
[11:34] <eroomde> yep, 50% duty cycle
[11:34] <eroomde> and 75% in the second example
[11:34] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yep
[11:34] <eroomde> so, in anthony's code, he's assuming 5V
[11:35] <eroomde> his code will alternate between, say (numbers pulled from my bum) 50% duty cycle at 70% duty cycle, for rtty
[11:35] <eroomde> so that means the actual voltage going to the ntx2 would be 5V*50% and 5V*75%
[11:35] <eroomde> i.e. 2.5V and 3.5V
[11:36] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK
[11:36] <eroomde> now, you're now using his code but with a 'on' voltage level of 3.3V
[11:36] <eroomde> but with the same duty cycles
[11:36] <eroomde> so running his code on your 3.3V system would give you voltages going to the NTX2 of
[11:36] <eroomde> 3.3V*50% and 3.3V*75%
[11:37] <eroomde> = 1.65V and 2.31V
[11:37] <eroomde> so the difference between those two voltages is 2.31-1.65 = 0.66V
[11:37] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK
[11:37] <eroomde> the difference between the two voltages on upu's 5V system is 3.5-2.5 = 1V
[11:38] <eroomde> so you're actually sending a smaller voltage shift, which will map to a smaller frequency chift in the NTX2
[11:38] <UpuWork> you have more "resolution" at 3.3V than I have @ 5V
[11:38] <Steve_G0TDJ> So, not only do I need to increase the voltages but the distance between them as well
[11:38] <eroomde> sorry i notice i switched from 70% to 75% in there
[11:38] <UpuWork> your smallest step is 3.3/256, mine is 5/256
[11:38] <eroomde> Steve_G0TDJ: yes exactly
[11:39] <eroomde> bingo
[11:39] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK Cool
[11:39] <eroomde> so basically i'd pick first the two voltages you want to stick into the ntx2
[11:39] <eroomde> eg 1.2V and 1.4V or whatever it needs to be, i forget
[11:39] <Steve_G0TDJ> So, how do I calculate the figures properly as opposed to just incrementing until fixed
[11:39] <eroomde> and then using the avr datasheet equation, you can then calculate the actual values to put into the pwm registers
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[11:40] <UpuWork> its about 0.005v per hz of shift on the NTX2
[11:40] <UpuWork> very ish
[11:40] <eroomde> so if you calculate the voltages you want going to the ntx2, you can then calculate the dutycycles required (given 3.3V supply) to get those voltages
[11:40] <UpuWork> so about 0.2125V change to get 425hz
[11:40] <UpuWork> ish
[11:40] <eroomde> and then use those dutycycles in your code - the equation on the avr datasheet will show you how to turn those dutycycles into the binary numbers in the right registers
[11:40] <UpuWork> I wouldn't dwell over it too much as long as you understand whats going on
[11:40] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK I've taken note of that
[11:41] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah, I get the gist of it
[11:41] <Steve_G0TDJ> UpuWork: I'd wired the NTX2 TXD pin to a digital AVR pin on my board. I have to hack it to get it to a PWM pin LOL
[11:42] <eroomde> it's not a proper PCB without a few bodge wires :)
[11:42] <Steve_G0TDJ> It'll be OK in the next version, althogh still not on the same pin as you used probably
[11:42] <Steve_G0TDJ> I fell like a 'proper' engineer now LOL
[11:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> feel
[11:43] <mfa298> as a very simplistic approach (without having looked at any data sheets) you could probably think of it as a 256K variable resistor. Where the output is connected to the variable part - at one end (0) you get 0V out, at the other end (256) you get 3v3 out.
[11:43] <eroomde> i just define engineering as using maths and science to solve problems
[11:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yep, makes sense. I've done the pre-scaling thing on Arduino which is a similar concept
[11:43] <eroomde> so yes :)
[11:44] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK so, Anthony kindly gave me a value to go for the shift (I'll check the datasheet later)
[11:44] <Steve_G0TDJ> So, I now meed to calculate the numbers to plug into the code
[11:45] <Steve_G0TDJ> And learn to type one day....
[11:45] <eroomde> that's on my list too
[11:45] <mfa298> trying to do hardware PWM on the Pi made my brain hurt even more as you can adjust the range value and the clock speed as well - although adjustable range did make DominoEX easier to sort out.
[11:46] <eroomde> the avr does have a 16bit resoltion mode on the pwm
[11:46] <eroomde> but the clock speeds are so bloody low on the AVRs that it takes too long to overflow the 16 bit counter
[11:46] <eroomde> so the pwm freq is sort of Hz
[11:46] <eroomde> or at least 100s of Hz
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[11:46] <eroomde> which is much to low for the ntx2
[11:47] <eroomde> alternative idea
[11:47] <eroomde> ooh ooh ohh
[11:47] <eroomde> might work
[11:47] <Steve_G0TDJ> *light comes on*
[11:47] <F1src> Have a nice day, ciao
[11:47] <eroomde> run 8bit PWM and absolutelly full whack frequency
[11:47] <eroomde> and dither
[11:47] <Steve_G0TDJ> Ciao
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[11:47] <eroomde> to increase the resolution up to say 10-12 bits
[11:47] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'll let you play with that Ed LOL
[11:48] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK Help me out here Ed....
[11:48] <eroomde> so if you have 256 values, and you want 100.5, you just alternative between 100 and 1001
[11:48] <eroomde> 100 and 101*
[11:48] <eroomde> very fast
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[11:48] <eroomde> the avr might not be able to go fast enough the other way though
[11:49] <eroomde> actually yes it should be able to
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[11:49] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hang on. Ed are the two values in Anthony's code levels?
[11:49] <eroomde> at 8MHz, an 8 bit counter overflows at 31ish kHz
[11:49] <eroomde> Steve_G0TDJ: yes
[11:49] <eroomde> because he's going from one voltage to another voltage
[11:49] <eroomde> so say 1V to 1.2V
[11:49] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK so 3.3v / 256 is 0.1289
[11:49] <eroomde> the both require different duty cycles
[11:49] <eroomde> no it isn't :)
[11:50] <Steve_G0TDJ> Clarify?
[11:50] <mfa298> I think you missed a decimal point in there
[11:50] <eroomde> 3.3/256 = 0.01289
[11:50] <eroomde> not 0.1289
[11:50] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh, yes, sorry you're correct
[11:51] <eroomde> fsphil: ping
[11:51] <eroomde> have you tried the above?
[11:51] <eroomde> on an 8MHz avr, the 8 bit counter overflow rate is 31ish kHz
[11:51] <Steve_G0TDJ> So, if I divide .2125 by 0.01289 that should give me the amount of steps required?
[11:51] <eroomde> Steve_G0TDJ: yes approximately
[11:51] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cool
[11:52] <Steve_G0TDJ> 16.4 so we'll say 16
[11:53] <Steve_G0TDJ> so if I use 116 for one side and 100 for the other?
[11:53] <nats`> someone here took a look at the EN300220 with HAB use in mind ?
[11:53] <eroomde> sounds reasonable, try it!
[11:53] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK... brb
[11:53] <eroomde> i don't remember exactly how the registers for pwm setting work on the avr
[11:53] <eroomde> but the principle is sound
[11:56] <fsphil> I've done PWM for domex and thor yea
[11:57] <UpuWork> did thor work ?
[11:57] <fsphil> I got it mostly working on the dds-60, not tried on the ntx2b yet
[11:57] <eroomde> fsphil: with 8bit pwm timing?
[11:57] <fsphil> eroomde: yea
[11:58] <fsphil> but
[11:58] <UpuWork> you can us a resistor to increase the resolution
[11:58] <fsphil> I had resistors to narrow the frequency shift on the pwm output
[11:58] <eroomde> did you use the 8 bits over the full 3.3V range or did you compress it with a PD?
[11:58] <eroomde> aaaah
[11:58] <eroomde> right
[11:58] <eroomde> yes
[11:58] <eroomde> so
[11:58] <eroomde> in principle you might be able to do it over the full 3.3V range
[11:58] <eroomde> i think so anyway
[11:59] <Maxell> nats`: http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300200_300299/30022001/02.04.01_40/en_30022001v020401o.pdf ?
[12:00] <eroomde> my reasoning is that an 8 bit counter overflows on an 8MHz chip at 31kHz
[12:00] <nats`> yep those one :)
[12:00] <fsphil> it might be possible to increase resolution by using some kind of interrupt-driven sigma delta thing
[12:00] <fsphil> not sure if that's practical
[12:01] <fsphil> the AVR timers can be configured to stop at certain values
[12:01] <fsphil> so it doesn't necessarly need to be /256
[12:01] <eroomde> so if you have a good low pass filter between you and the avr, say 100Hz, you might be in business
[12:02] <eroomde> because you could toggle the value in the duty cycle counter each cycle up and down one
[12:02] <eroomde> so you could toggle between say 100 and 101 each time round
[12:02] <eroomde> which would give the effect of being 100.5
[12:02] <eroomde> because the toggling would be happening at 31khz, it gets filtered out by the low pass filter nayway
[12:03] <eroomde> you could do 5x 100 and 4 x 101 to get 10.44
[12:04] <eroomde> you could basically buy yourself another couple of bits of resolution
[12:04] <eroomde> the limit is when the toggling frequency drops down beneath the cutoff frequency of the low pass filter, because then the ntx2 itself would start to see the toggling frequency component
[12:05] <eroomde> s/tiggling/dithering
[12:05] <eroomde> toggling*
[12:06] <eroomde> but if you keep the toggling freq above say 300Hz, you'd be fine, assuming the 100Hz LPF was any good
[12:07] <eroomde> so that means you could dither for about 100 pwm cycles
[12:08] <eroomde> i think you'd be able to get about 5 bits more resolution
[12:08] <eroomde> that outa be plenty
[12:08] <eroomde> here endeth the monologue
[12:08] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK Ed
[12:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> The shift is now right, well 450Hz which I'm happy with.... But
[12:09] <fsphil> I shall try this
[12:09] <eroomde> nice
[12:09] <eroomde> what's it meant to be?
[12:09] <eroomde> it's likely just a timing issue
[12:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> RTTY Beacon blah blah
[12:09] <eroomde> fsphil: do you see what I mean?
[12:10] <eroomde> it's difficult over ascii
[12:10] <fsphil> nah I got it
[12:10] <eroomde> could really do withh a diagram
[12:10] <eroomde> but hopefully you see what i mean
[12:10] <eroomde> cool
[12:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> It was working OK with the old values
[12:11] <eroomde> that's odd
[12:11] <eroomde> screenshot?
[12:11] <eroomde> and a pastebin of code before and after?
[12:11] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK I'll change the values back for a tick
[12:14] <Steve_G0TDJ> iT'S ok, FOIND THE PROBLEM My Caps lock....
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> http://aerostation.free.fr/ page successfully tested with Netscape Navigator 2.01 and IE 3.0
[12:14] <Steve_G0TDJ> No, FLDigi got into Baudot mode instead of ASCII 7 for some reason
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> And your "U" key
[12:15] <Steve_G0TDJ> YAY!
[12:15] <Steve_G0TDJ> RTTY TEST BEACON
[12:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> At 450 shift :-)
[12:16] <eroomde> good work
[12:16] <fsphil> result
[12:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> My god it's PELTING down outside
[12:16] <eroomde> nice day for a pico
[12:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cheers guys.
[12:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL
[12:17] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cool - and I understand a little more on how it ticks
[12:17] <eroomde> always the best bit
[12:17] <eroomde> (for me)
[12:17] <fsphil> very windy here overnight and today. the tree in my back garden is on the ground
[12:17] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah. Now I have to do a quick re-design of my NTX board to get the pin in the right place LOL
[12:17] <LeoBodnar> What would be pico equivalent for underwater?
[12:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> I also have some other stuff to take care of which I should have been doing already but this is more fun ;-)
[12:18] <nats`> pico submarine ?
[12:18] <nats`> :D
[12:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> All together now 'We all live in a pico submarine, a pico submarine a pico submarine...'
[12:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK I better get on with the real work - Thanks agai guys be back soon
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> what's happene to spacenear? :)
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> I read the news today, oh buoy
[12:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh Hi Matt
[12:20] <craag> ibanezmatt13: google updated their maps api
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> hey steve :-)
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[12:20] <craag> it broke a few things...
[12:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> The guys have been helping me get my NTX board running
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I've been reading :)
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> well done
[12:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Have you seen the pics?
[12:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Thanks
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> on site?
[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah
[12:21] <ibanezmatt13> I'll look at it now :)
[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> http://flyha.be/17Ibr6R
[12:21] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> I've had to re-route one of the lines to the NTX but it's all good now
[12:21] <ibanezmatt13> they look rather nice indeed
[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm chuffed to bits with them
[12:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> Wait 'till you see the next board ;-)
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> I've decided I prefer 1.6mm thick boards instead of 0.8mm, they look more bulky and just better, IMO
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes, I can't wait
[12:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> It's minute
[12:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> Ordered the other day
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> is this the one you told me about?
[12:23] <ibanezmatt13> to do with the header
[12:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> No, this is another tracker
[12:23] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, awesome
[12:23] <ibanezmatt13> I need to make NORB 4
[12:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> Anyway, I have to get on with stuff I should have been doing!
[12:23] <ibanezmatt13> cool, have fun
[12:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> Make or design?
[12:24] <ibanezmatt13> design :P
[12:24] <ibanezmatt13> then make
[12:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cool. Look forward to seeing it
[12:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> be back soon - 73
[12:26] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, what could I make interesting with NORB 4...
[12:28] <x-f> cluster balloons!
[12:28] <x-f> https://picasaweb.google.com/114503320666283130750/Misiunea_WP3#5927641236114510226
[12:29] <DL1SGP> gamma counter!
[12:29] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[12:29] Action: DL1SGP hides
[12:29] <fsphil> LED beacon
[12:29] <ibanezmatt13> mm
[12:29] <ibanezmatt13> something spectacular
[12:30] <fsphil> that's been on my todo list forever
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[12:30] <ibanezmatt13> I thought about explosives but quickly lay that idea to rest
[12:30] <DL1SGP> good
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> Could send up two balloons attached by a long PWM RGB LED strip :)
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> night flight
[12:33] <fsphil> they probably wouldn't stay level
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> ah I've got it! Two payloads, one below the other. One at top lined with fireworks, one on bottom has upfacing camera. Bonfire night!
[12:33] <fsphil> high altitude firework
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> 30K firework display
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> rhymes!
[12:33] <fsphil> you'd be amazed how small fireworks look from the air
[12:34] <craag> well, you'd need to scale up the fireworks then :P
[12:34] <ibanezmatt13> mm, good point. Be a bit rubbish
[12:34] <fsphil> from 10km up they are fairly small
[12:34] <fsphil> 30km they'd just be a dot
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> but from 10m away
[12:35] <fsphil> or use a reallly big firework :)
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> the payload below would have a nice show
[12:35] <fsphil> would be easier to fire it downwards
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> then I'd have the MoD on me
[12:35] <x-f> no air resistance, fireworks could be bigger than down here
[12:35] <fsphil> true
[12:35] <fsphil> it would spread out more
[12:36] <DL1SGP> from 10m away you might not see much other than the ignition and some parts flying away, I would fire it below and have the trigger going off after camera went up a bit extra
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> yea, I think explosives must be in it somewhere. It's totally the way forward
[12:36] <fsphil> wonder what the rules on fireworks are
[12:37] <DL1SGP> maybe needs insurance :)
[12:37] <fsphil> I bet it doesn't say have to be fired from the ground
[12:37] <x-f> we have special regulations for flights between sunset and sunrise, a flasher light is a requirement
[12:37] <craag> x-f: How bright does it have to be?
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> for Xmas, could have a giant santa figure and then ignite it and drop it down
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> He'd certainly be dashing through the snow then, assuming it was snowwing
[12:38] <x-f> craag, to be seen from 10 km distance
[12:38] <x-f> (or 5, i don't remember now)
[12:39] <mattbrejza> anyone got any 'avoids' as far as dodgy brands of battery holders go?
[12:39] <fsphil> I don't even know what brand mine are
[12:39] <DL1SGP> does a translucent material with the picture of a flasher printed on it count as flasher light if the backlight is strong enough to be seen on the given distance? :P
[12:39] <fsphil> if you're being really paranoid you could just solder wires to the battery terminals
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> Or maybe have say 20 small gifts attached to a payload, then on a float, time it so it drops a gift at several places every now and again. Then when Santa's finished, jettison him from the payload with his own tracker and self destruct the sleigh.
[12:40] <fsphil> you're venturing into comic bad-guy land there
[12:40] <mattbrejza> ok
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> x-f: At 10km, you have a surface area of an illuminated sphere of 1.2*10^9m^2. A magnitude 4 star (quite visible at night soon after leaving a bright room) is 10^-9W/m^2 - so you need of the order of 1W of light.
[12:40] Action: ibanezmatt13 goes back to his physics revision
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> x-f: If you use cyan LEDs, then you need perhaps .5W of light, or 1W of power.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Cyan LEDs are the most efficient you can get for dark adapted vision flashers.
[12:42] <fsphil> could fly a 3W LED light bulb
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Of course - 10W LEDs are about 3 quid.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Cree XML2
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> white ones.
[12:43] <fsphil> nice
[12:43] <x-f> SpeedEvil, is that to illuminate the balloon?
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> And if you put a tiny lens on each - you don't need a heatsink - and arrange a dozen of them so each covers 60 degree cones, and flash them intermittently, you can get a hundred times the brightness
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> No, I was meaning a direct light
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> I guess illuminating the balloon will work too
[12:44] <fsphil> the balloon is not an ideal reflector
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> A pulsing LED would get ~100km visibility in clear skies.
[12:44] <fsphil> they're a bit transparent when stretched
[12:44] <craag> Once susf starts doing NOTAMed night launches I might have to try an LED inside a balloon.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps a little more if you use 30 degree or so lenses canted down in a ring.
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[12:45] <fsphil> drive it with PWM doing rtty :)
[12:45] Action: nats` is expecting a peak in UFO witness declaration in the living area of craag
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yes, that's a real possibility
[12:45] <fsphil> yea. I've done it with small LEDs
[12:45] <fsphil> range of about 30cm :)
[12:45] <craag> fsphil: Well theres the optical video stuff I sent you
[12:45] <craag> AM modulation of video
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If you're willing to use even a tiny telescope - and put a decent photodiode on it, especially with a filter - you can get very silly bandwidths
[12:46] <fsphil> I suspect we'll struggle to do video
[12:46] <craag> With a decent telescope on the ground I think you could do it.
[12:46] <fsphil> but I do have a nice computer guided scope
[12:46] <craag> there you go then ;)
[12:46] <fsphil> no reason it couldn't be habitat'ed
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: though for this, a bare laser diodes, and a narrow bandwidth filter may work bettter.
[12:46] <gonzo_> there ihas need a lot of stuff going on with light comms
[12:46] <gonzo_> google nanowave
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> a 20nm filter really cleans stuff up
[12:47] <gonzo_> has been
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> (using the laser diodes as pure 'LEDs' with no pointing)
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[12:48] <gonzo_> I have a 4" lens on a bit of drain pipe with a photodiode as an optical receiver.
[12:48] <gonzo_> the lomitation with photodiodes is the bandwidth. Realistivly limited to audio type BW
[12:49] <fsphil> yea they're not great
[12:49] <fsphil> what sensor do they use for the video?
[12:49] <gonzo_> for low light, you need bigger capture area (or great optics!) and that has inc reased capacitance, so low bandwadth
[12:49] <fsphil> I guess there's some overlap with fibreoptic comms
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: Err - no
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: you get nicer photodiodes that are way more expensive and good for HF
[12:50] <gonzo_> think vidoe just needs more light (or poss good filtering?)
[12:50] <fsphil> decent video is a few mhz
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: Especially if you point it properly, and use a receiver designed for comms - 500MHz is easy
[12:50] <gonzo_> most of the amateur work uses simple diodes. And often using the LED in rev boas as a photodiode
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> And yes, they tend to be annoying and perform best if you can wirebond to them
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> But 'only' 100MHz is quite easy.
[12:51] <craag> gonzo_: There was a very impressive demo at the BATC convention, simple LED over 4m, badly focussed, and worked off well relections too.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> I was looking into this for my laser ranger project
[12:52] <gonzo_> all I've done so far is listen to the street lights buzz and the whines from TV backlights in peoples houses
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: Gwaaan. Get it a bit better, and Kepler II
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:53] <gonzo_> for ling paths, it's been found that non cohearent sourses suffer less scintilation
[12:54] <gonzo_> may go out on the hills now the evenings are getting darker. But need to mechanically build the TX
[12:54] <gonzo_> it's in cardboard boxes at the mo. just to do a demo
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[13:04] <DL7AD> good afternoon
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[13:29] <eroomde> fsphil: re: earlier convo, microchip has a bit of windows software that works fine under Wine caled FilterLab
[13:29] <eroomde> you can use it to design a low pass filter
[13:30] <eroomde> my gut feeling would be a 4-pole one, i.e 2 op amps, bessel filter
[13:30] <eroomde> it'll give you a circuit diagram and graphs of how well it works
[13:30] <fsphil> that could come in handy
[13:30] <eroomde> and perhaps 100Hz is a bit low for rtty, but probably fine for domino
[13:31] <fsphil> yea you don't want it so low that the change in tones takes time
[13:31] <eroomde> yeah
[13:31] <fsphil> baud rate * 10 as a minimum maybe
[13:31] <eroomde> you perhaps want the rise/fall time on the chips to be no more than 10% of the symbol period, say
[13:31] <fsphil> I guess this is venturing into GFSK
[13:31] <eroomde> so for 50Hz, that'd be 0.002s
[13:32] <eroomde> so a rise time of 0.002s corresponds to a bandwidth of
[13:32] <eroomde> ...
[13:32] <eroomde> 170Hz
[13:33] <eroomde> (rise_time = 0.35 /Bandwidth)
[13:33] <fsphil> low enough to make it easy
[13:33] <eroomde> (the derivation of this is in the wiki article on rise times)
[13:33] <eroomde> so yeah, you could still have a toggle period of like 50 cycles
[13:33] <eroomde> so you could have ratios of 27/23
[13:33] <eroomde> which would still be pretty sweet
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[13:35] <fsphil> having less hardware would be nice too though
[13:35] <eroomde> yeah
[13:35] <eroomde> though 2 more opamps
[13:35] <fsphil> I like the idea of the PWM pin direct to the radio
[13:35] <eroomde> though that can be a dual opamp package in a tssop if you need
[13:36] <eroomde> well, the prob is the radio's LPF is like 5kHz
[13:36] <eroomde> so you'd see all the dithering
[13:37] <eroomde> unless you kept the dithering freq up at like 10khz
[13:37] <eroomde> which really only means you're getting one more bit of resolution as you'd have to alternatate it every pwm cycle, i.e. 15kHz
[13:38] <fsphil> are opamps bothered by temperature changes?
[13:39] <eroomde> no really
[13:39] <eroomde> maybe a little
[13:39] <eroomde> but small bananas for a low pass filter
[13:39] <eroomde> might chnage the cutoff freq from 170Hz to 171Hz or something
[13:41] <fsphil> the dither rate can probably be pretty quick before the frequency of interrupts becomes a problem
[13:41] <eroomde> yeah
[13:41] <fsphil> the interrupt will be doing very little work
[13:41] <eroomde> but higher the dither rate, the worse the interrupt problem
[13:41] <eroomde> the lower the dither rate, the lower the anti-alia problem
[13:42] <eroomde> but the nice thing is, the lower the better as it also means more resolution
[13:42] <fsphil> there will be a sweet spot
[13:42] <eroomde> yep
[13:43] <eroomde> incidently the reverse of dithering is how my gps front end works
[13:43] <eroomde> it just needs a 1 bit dac, and uses the noise power to sample the much smaller gps signal hidden within it
[13:44] <eroomde> 1 bit ADC sorry
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[13:46] <fsphil> are you generating noise for that?
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/11/20/0414258/many-uavs-vulnerable-to-directed-energy-weapons Unsurprising story of the day
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I forget - did I say I saw a couple of days ago that the PRUs on the Beaglebone black are just fine for receiving high speed serial signals?
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> (gps)
[13:49] <eroomde> I dodn't see that no!
[13:49] <eroomde> interesting
[13:49] <eroomde> link to more info?
[13:49] <eroomde> fsphil: nope, it's the thermal noise
[13:49] <eroomde> the gps signal is 15dB beneath the thermal noise
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> http://elinux.org/Ti_AM33XX_PRUSSv2 - it's the '28 bit shift in and out'
[13:49] <eroomde> we amplify it up so that the thermal noise power is just about matched to the threshold on the one bit adc
[13:50] <fsphil> ah
[13:50] <fsphil> yea that was the bit I was wondering
[13:51] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: vs interesting, thanks
[13:51] <eroomde> v*
[13:52] <nats`> SpeedEvil your article reminds me of a video where a guy mounted a microwave oven magnetron on a waveguide
[13:52] <nats`> pretty impressive for a such low end/cost device
[13:52] <nats`> but I was always puzzled by a point, what will be the damage on living creatures
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> nats`: Essentially none
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> nats`: A microwave isn't that dangerous as long as the power level is not very high
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> If you can get the focal spot narrower than perhaps a meter, then yes, there is some likelyhood of long term damage
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> But you really would need to focus it much more to get actual rapid damage
[13:54] <nats`> you mean with 900W you don't risk anything (maybe for eyes ?)
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> Basically.
[13:58] <nats`> and know I want to play with that
[13:58] <nats`> now
[13:59] <fsphil> that's where my k went
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_absorption_rate
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> 2W/kg of bodymass is the general 'safe' limit.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> For a fully exposed human with a square meter of skin, that means that you have about 20kg or so of mass before you get beyond the microwave skin depth
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[14:01] <SpeedEvil> So - that's 40W as 'safe' - forever.
[14:02] <nats`> and with a good waveguide how much you could direct on the focal point ?
[14:02] <nats`> (I don't know anything on that topic)
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> It's a matter of diffraction.
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> beamwidth (1.22* wavelength )/ diameter
[14:03] <nats`> ok so the most limiting factor will be the loss in the low cost magnetron ?
[14:04] <nats`> because when theysay 900W oven I guess it's electrical power measure
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> So, for 12cm microwaves, that's about .14 / diameter , or 1/diameter * 7 = divergance in radians. Or 60/diameter * 7 in degrees, or 8/diameter in meters fo degrees.
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> It's output
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> 900W magnetron has 1800W in often
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> So - to make a 5 degree beam, you need a dish approaching a couple of meters across
[14:06] <nats`> wooo that's huge....
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> And that couple of meter dish would make someone pleasantly (though safely) warm at 40m.
[14:06] <eroomde> you lot are being evil
[14:06] <nats`> do you have an idea how much power they use in riot control cannon ?
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> nats`: that's rather different.
[14:06] <nats`> because report say that the pain is really intense
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> nats`: that's _much_ higher frequency - so it dumps all of the power in the skin.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> If you try to do that with 2.4GHz, you will end up literally cooking people.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> (as well as needing thousands of times the power)
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> If you heat up the top 0.5mm of the skin - it hurts.
[14:08] <nats`> but higher freq means lower distance from the target ?
[14:08] <nats`> unless they use really heavy power source
[14:08] <nats`> (PS cooking people seems to be a good plan :D)
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> Higher frequency means you can have smaller antennas, and the beam can be narrower for a given size of antenna. It als o means it is absorbed more readily in a smaller depth, so it's more appropriate for a crowd control weapon
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[14:09] <SpeedEvil> Higher frequencies do also mean higher atmospheric absorbtion in general.
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> Though this is not quite simple.
[14:10] <nats`> oky thx for explaination
[14:10] <nats`> on an article they talk about 95GHz main freq for that
[14:10] <nats`> I don't even know how to produce such high wave
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrotron
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klystron
[14:12] <nats`> I knew about klystron but not at that frequency :)
[14:13] <nats`> interesting stuff I'll see if I could find old russian junk for that :D
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[14:18] <Hix> Hah, proxy is back, been reading scrollback and noticed pwm method for RTTY, neat idea. Just not sure about the low pass filter part of it
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> RCRC would work fine
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Or even RC
[14:18] <Hix> s/RTTY/FSK
[14:18] <nats`> SpeedEvil I read that gunn diode could be used for that too
[14:18] <nats`> is it true ?
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> nats`: yes - for lowish power
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[14:19] <SpeedEvil> nats`: milliwatts IIRC
[14:20] <nats`> yep
[14:20] <nats`> and 200W peak
[14:20] <nats`> if I understand the main advantage is that the klystron is already a high power output
[14:20] <nats`> no need of some amp behind
[14:22] <nats`> there seem to be IMPATT diode too
[14:22] <nats`> same frequency range but more in the W range for output
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[14:27] <Hix> Aerial image of Conf central https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZhS2yHIAAAZbvj.jpg:large
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[14:34] <MobileNathan> Wow, that's an awesome image!
[14:40] <x-f> i went to the cinema and before the movie (Gravity) there was Thor's trailer - it had a similar view :)
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[14:41] <MobileNathan> Gravity was an awesome movie.
[14:42] <x-f> yep
[14:44] <fsphil> Thor wasn't too bad either
[14:46] <MobileNathan> Nope.
[14:48] <eroomde> 3I was a bit unsure about Gravity
[14:48] <eroomde> I saw it last night
[14:48] <eroomde> (again)
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[14:52] <MobileNathan> I was unsure at first too; it seemed a bit unrealistic. But the affects were amazing, and (SPOILER ALERT) I liked how they killed off George Clooney in the beginning; it wasn't a typical Hollywood movie.
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[14:56] <x-f> we had a starparty at the local observatory some time ago, and there were some lectures and the last one was from "cinema bloggers" about astronomy-related movies and stuff. Gravity was mentioned too, that there has been some discussion about how realistic it actually is etc, and then he mentioned that there has never been such discussion about reality in Sharknado. a trailer followed on the big screen with great laughs from the visitors
[15:03] <MobileNathan> Oh, that sounds interesting.
[15:03] <MobileNathan> Well I gotta go to school guys. See ya later.
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[15:03] <Andrew_M6GTG> issues with tracker? being redirected to mobile version
[15:04] <fsphil> yea google changed the api
[15:04] <fsphil> broke it
[15:06] <gonzo_> ohh, pretty new tracking page.....
[15:06] <Andrew_M6GTG> don't you love them ;-)
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[15:13] <eroomde> someone has sent me a tool user's dictionary
[15:13] <eroomde> it has some amusing definitions like
[15:14] <eroomde> Engine Hoist: A Tool for measuring the tensile strength of everything for forgot to disconnect
[15:14] <DL1SGP> heh
[15:16] <eroomde> Tap: used to permenantly fill a hole you didn't want
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[15:20] <Hix> got a copy Ed?
[15:21] <eroomde> sec
[15:21] <eroomde> http://www.battlebeach.com/tools.html
[15:21] <Hix> tvm
[15:33] <gonzo_> nails: What all fixings become, when all you have is a hammer
[15:34] <mfa298> OPERATING MANUAL: A completely useless object containing the manufacturer's liability disclaimers and inane safety warnings.
[15:34] <mfa298> ^^ so true
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: Those are actually useful.
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> I just composted a pile of them.
[15:35] <gonzo_> to be carefully files, in case of a severe winter
[15:35] <mfa298> not so useful in a flat, no compost and no fire pit.
[15:35] <DL1SGP> yeah they tell you the things you need to do in order to void warranty, kinda what we aim for but not needed as written instructions
[15:35] <gonzo_> filed
[15:37] <DL1SGP> mfa298: advantage of a flat often is that there are multiple parties living in same house, each having a letterbox :) I bet they would be happy to get some manuals for free
[15:43] <mfa298> that's christmas presents for the neigbours sorted then :D
[15:47] <DL1SGP> yeah :D
[15:47] <ve6ts> has anyone tried bit banged serial port (9600baud) on an attiny? I've been using the 88A which has a uart, but i'd like to try a 44/88 instead
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[15:54] <fsphil> no reason that shouldn't work ve6ts
[15:54] <ve6ts> ya, i will just have to take a closer look at my code, it wasn;t working last i looked at it
[15:54] <fsphil> interrupt driven?
[15:55] <ve6ts> yup
[15:55] <ve6ts> all i want it for is to recieve from the GPS, currently working on an atmega88
[15:55] <ve6ts> but that has the uart, which is easier
[15:56] <ve6ts> i might launch another micro this weekend, i have 2 ready to fly a 10meter CW beacon and my rtty, field-hell, cw prototype on 433mhz
[15:56] <ve6ts> the weather looks like it is improving for this weekend
[15:56] <ve6ts> I want to try a float
[15:58] <fsphil> I started writing a receiver for serial on the arduino
[15:58] <fsphil> using timer0
[15:58] <ve6ts> i was also using timer0
[15:58] <fsphil> using it as an actual timer though. the interrupt is on a level change
[15:58] <ve6ts> i might make that a christmas project, something to work on over the holidays
[15:59] <ve6ts> i also still need to work on my GPS autopilot (i want to use a controllable parachute) not sure how that is going to work out
[15:59] <ve6ts> i'll call it controlled crashing :)
[16:00] <fsphil> that sounds like fun
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[16:25] <ve6ts> i already have pwm working to control a servo for the steering (pull on 1 corner of the chute)
[16:26] <eroomde> ve6ts: awesome
[16:26] <ve6ts> now i have to finish the calcuation of where i want to fly to
[16:26] <eroomde> back to base?
[16:26] <eroomde> launch, grab a deck chair and a beer, maybe have a bbq next to you for some sausages
[16:27] <eroomde> look at your watch and think it's a bout time it was on its way back, notice a spec on the horiozon
[16:27] <ve6ts> i don't think that will work well, it's too windy here, I was thinking of programming a few landing locations in and it could pick the closest one (or the one it's heading to)
[16:27] <ve6ts> fly me home would be cool though
[16:27] <eroomde> and wait as the spec enlarges in the shimmering distance, a sort of quotidian, canadain version of the opening scene of Laurence of Arabia
[16:27] <ve6ts> hehe
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[16:34] <fsphil> I do wish I had somewhere to test the parachute
[16:34] <fsphil> parafoil even
[16:35] <fsphil> the control at a minimum can be two servos yea?
[16:35] <eroomde> yep
[16:35] <eroomde> i think just 1
[16:36] <eroomde> you could have one with a lever across it (like a tight roper holding a balancing pole) where the end of each level is attached to the sides of each wing
[16:36] <eroomde> that way you can shift your CG around to steer
[16:36] <eroomde> and your descent rate is just whatever it is
[16:36] <LeoBodnar> and self learning PID loop
[16:37] <eroomde> of course
[16:37] <fsphil> makes sense
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[16:38] <ve6ts> i plan on 1 servo with the arm
[16:38] <fsphil> would it be a problem putting something in the fabric to keep it opened?
[16:39] <fsphil> I don't fancy its chances flopping about on ascent
[16:39] <fsphil> going to get tangled
[16:39] <ve6ts> i might build a wind tunnel to test with
[16:39] <eroomde> yes
[16:39] <ve6ts> i have a big fan at home which should be enough
[16:39] <DL1SGP1> crossed control lines can be an issue with a parachute as well
[16:39] <eroomde> you could add some rigidity to a lifting surface
[16:39] <eroomde> i think there's a word for that but it escapes me
[16:39] <eroomde> wang?
[16:39] <eroomde> wong?
[16:39] <eroomde> hmm can't remember
[16:39] <fsphil> numberwang
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[16:40] <fsphil> anyway, yea that might work
[16:40] <ve6ts> i could even take it up with my plane and drop it for testing
[16:40] <fsphil> suspended from the balloon it shouldn't cause much of a problem going up
[16:41] <qyx_> the new tracker crashes my firefox
[16:41] <DL1SGP1> yeah then pyro cutoff to avoid tangling balloon parts across the chute
[16:41] <eroomde> yes, some means of completely cutting away the balloon would be useful
[16:41] <ve6ts> exactly: you need the cutdown.
[16:41] <fsphil> definilty
[16:42] <eroomde> and i'd want that anyway to do some lower altitude test flights
[16:42] <eroomde> eg 10km
[16:42] <ve6ts> cut away before burst
[16:42] <fsphil> after burst for unexpected bursts too
[16:42] <ve6ts> if you go too high like above 25km, i have found alot of tangling of the chute lines
[16:43] <ve6ts> during burst
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[16:43] <ve6ts> i've had video pointed up going up, and it's fine until burst
[16:43] <eroomde> some people use spreading loops to keep the parachute lines from tangling
[16:44] <ve6ts> yes some of the chutes you can buy have them
[16:44] <eroomde> but i've not really had any probs with tangling chutes except for one very misguided attempt at triply redundant mortar-deployed chutes on nova 4
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[16:44] <eroomde> which didn't have a pre-deployed chute because it was luanching a rocket up through a central launch column
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[16:45] <ve6ts> hehe, how did that go?
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[16:45] <eroomde> we designed it to have an aerobrake anyway, should the chutes not work
[16:45] <eroomde> they didn't work
[16:46] <eroomde> so it came down under the aerobrake
[16:46] <eroomde> there was some very illconceived idea baout a spread bar to keep the chutes from tangling with each other
[16:46] <eroomde> it had the effect of making one chute failure into a three chute failure
[16:46] <eroomde> we were young and naive
[16:46] <eroomde> rtty had barely been invented then
[16:46] <DL1SGP1> young and wild :D
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[16:47] <fsphil> what was used before the ntx2?
[16:47] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/images/FEAModel.jpg
[16:47] <eroomde> that's roughly what it looked like
[16:47] <eroomde> central rocket launch tube, 3 parachute mortars, and a large aerobrake (styrofoam) on the top
[16:47] <eroomde> before the ntx2?
[16:47] <eroomde> golly
[16:48] <eroomde> well, there was the infamous 'circuit solutions' 70cm tx, which always failed at about 5km
[16:48] <eroomde> lots of random maplin keyfob based things
[16:48] <eroomde> sometime tried HF
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[16:48] <eroomde> it very quickly converged on 70cm ISM
[16:48] <fsphil> a right mish mash
[16:48] <eroomde> but it was a while before the ntx2 emerged
[16:49] <eroomde> and it was even longer before people started to settle on rtty
[16:49] <eroomde> we actually did 300baud rtty for nova 2
[16:49] <fsphil> I think I read about that
[16:49] <eroomde> that worked great, got about 500km off it
[16:49] <fsphil> it's what convinced me to use 300 for my first launch
[16:49] <eroomde> but it settled on 50 baud for whatever reason
[16:50] <eroomde> nova 2 was the second system syndrome extravaganza
[16:50] <eroomde> £600 spent on digital cameras (which were expensiver in 2006)
[16:50] <eroomde> a quick mod to put a mosfet across th shutter switch to 'depress' it from the flight computer
[16:50] <fsphil> yea second flights don't tend to go well
[16:50] <eroomde> a quick flight, desolder the mosfet, return the cameras back within the 14 day guarantee
[16:50] <eroomde> student-style
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:51] <craag> lol
[16:51] <eroomde> alas, it took off with a 1:20 ascent rate (serious gas fill calc fuck up) and we knew then it wasn't coming back
[16:51] <eroomde> it got well out into the north sea before we gave up and went to the pub
[16:52] <fsphil> my second one was the yorkshire one
[16:52] <fsphil> poor lad
[16:52] <eroomde> ah yes!
[16:52] <fsphil> an important lesson in testing the antenna
[16:53] <fsphil> and not launching during a storm
[16:53] <eroomde> storm launches are super tempting though
[16:53] <fsphil> very
[16:53] <eroomde> i'd quite like a storm to roll over here
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[16:54] <eroomde> it ould involve building another payload which i've successfully put off for 3 years now
[16:55] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a proper storm launcher.
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> It'd need to I guess be something like a spring-loaded structure which can retract fast enough that the balloon can't impact it.
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> This could be 'fun'.
[16:57] <eroomde> it certainly could be yes
[16:57] <eroomde> we get storms in out valley
[16:57] <eroomde> our*
[16:57] <eroomde> the difficult thing is that storm cells are actually often only about 500meters in size
[16:57] <eroomde> you'd have to be pretty accurate
[16:59] <eroomde> http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/projects/telex/videos.html
[16:59] <fsphil> would have to be below the CAA limits
[16:59] <fsphil> no way you'd get a notam for a large area
[16:59] <fsphil> ah real player, that brings me back
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[17:00] <eroomde> yeah
[17:00] <eroomde> or wait for one to hit cambridge
[17:00] <fsphil> it would be impossible here. there are so few storms
[17:01] <fsphil> and most don't head directly overhead
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[17:02] <eroomde> there were a few good ones at cam
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[17:05] <fsphil> noaa's flight_3 was a fun launch
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[17:09] <LeoBodnar> Fireworks balloon manual http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Mq3K21UFf04C&lpg=PA173&ots=Z1v3cAHEuP&dq=round%20pumpkin%20balloon%20gores&pg=PA177#v=onepage&q=round%20pumpkin%20balloon%20gores&f=false
[17:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/20/david_cameron_in_twitter_hooker_shocker/
[17:10] <Laurenceb> lolling
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[17:15] <DL1SGP1> Good Afternoon LeoBodnar
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[17:19] <Laurenceb> http://openmdao.org/hyperloop-in-openmdao/
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[17:22] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[17:26] <LeoBodnar_> hi all
[17:26] <jcoxon> hey LeoBodnar_
[17:27] <LeoBodnar_> how are things?
[17:28] <jcoxon> good thanks
[17:29] <jcoxon> back from the US
[17:29] <LeoBodnar_> ah!
[17:30] <arko> jcoxon: nice! where did ya go?
[17:30] <jcoxon> NY and DC
[17:30] <arko> nice
[17:30] <arko> fun or work?
[17:31] <jcoxon> fun, got friends who work in DC
[17:31] <arko> :)
[17:31] <jcoxon> and in NY we bumped into some friends from the UK
[17:31] <jcoxon> which was crazy if you think about the odds
[17:31] <arko> ha! small world
[17:32] <LeoBodnar_> i always think about the evens
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[17:43] <jcoxon> just uploading pics
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[17:52] <tweetBot> @M0TFC: A warm welcome to our new club member Bob M0ZRF. Looking forward to you joining the HAB project ! #hamr #ukhas
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[18:11] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[18:15] <jarod> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ cool ! :D
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[18:17] <LeoBodnar_> http://www.buzzfeed.com/peggy/unexpected-things-to-do-with-balloons
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[18:27] <G4MYS_Andy> Good evening a frequency for POP 1 would be interesting!
[18:30] <x-f> it's just a test today, Andy
[18:32] <G4MYS_Andy> x-f well at least I spotted it today unlike the unannounced flights of the last few days! HI cant hear anything from 434 to 434.7 so guess your behind the tress!
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[18:32] Action: mfa298 wonders what requency it's on. There's a chance G4MYS_Andy and myself could hear it.
[18:33] <x-f> G4MYS_Andy, have you joined the UKHAS mailing list?
[18:33] <G4MYS_Andy> well me thinks I should but looking across 70cm and cant sniff it out
[18:33] <G4MYS_Andy> er no, thought I had, but seems I was barking up wrong tree
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[18:33] <mfa298> I've heard previous payloads being tested elsewhere on the uni campus.
[18:34] <mfa298> I think they're planning a real launch fairly soon (although I'm guessing that might depend on weather)
[18:34] <x-f> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/ukhas
[18:35] <G4MYS_Andy> Yes Its been pending some time but the GPS would put them behind buildings I guess at 100 ft it would be FSD with me but short of driving round whoich I am not going to do it will be not audable here !
[18:35] <SIbot> In real units: 100 ft = 30 m
[18:36] <x-f> however B-flights are usually announced a while after the actual launch :)
[18:36] <G4MYS_Andy> 100ft = 30.48037M but I come from the 1950s dont do M -- we do yards like the road signs!
[18:36] <SIbot> In real units: 100 ft = 30 m
[18:37] <mfa298> doesn't look like there's been any updates from POP1 for 10 mins so might have been a demo
[18:37] <G4MYS_Andy> In the mean time Ill monitor on the computer its warmer in the kitchen!
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[18:38] <G4MYS_Andy> mfa interesting to see the improved Mobile tracker programme
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[18:41] <mfa298> the mobile tracker page is (probably) a temporary thing. Google have done some upgrades which broken the normal spacenear.us map
[18:42] <mfa298> the mobile tracker page has been around for a while (there's also a shorter url for it of habhub.org/mt)
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[18:47] <mclane> something wrong with spacenear.us? - why redirect to mobile tracker?
[18:48] <ve6ts> aparently something was changed with the google api, and they had to redirect
[18:48] <adamgreig> google finally deprecated/disabled api v2
[18:49] <adamgreig> they now have a v3 wrapper but it doesn't work for most people
[18:49] <adamgreig> the mt is based on v3 so still works
[18:49] <adamgreig> someone needs to rewrite all the google maps bits in the snus tracker to use v3 api before we can swap it back I think
[18:49] <adamgreig> which may be one straw too many
[18:50] <mclane> uh ok
[18:51] <arko> damn that sucks
[18:52] <adamgreig> well it's been coming for ages to be fair
[18:52] <adamgreig> like multiple years or something
[18:52] <arko> heh
[18:52] <adamgreig> v3 was launched in 2009
[18:52] <adamgreig> like, may 2009
[18:52] <adamgreig> and v2 got deprecated at that tim
[18:52] <adamgreig> e
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[18:52] <adamgreig> so like 4.5 years or so
[18:53] <arko> wow
[18:53] <arko> thats a while
[18:53] <arko> software world
[18:53] <arko> its like 100's of human years
[18:53] <adamgreig> lol
[18:53] <adamgreig> indeed
[18:53] <adamgreig> and for a free service at that
[18:53] <adamgreig> so can't really... complain
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[18:55] <arko> true
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[18:57] <arko> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-337
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[18:57] <adamgreig> so it's got enough short to drop the bus from 16V to 11V on landing day
[18:58] <adamgreig> presumably that's some fair amount of current just being wasted?
[18:58] <adamgreig> or is it like, high impedance maybe
[18:59] <arko> im not sure if that was presistent
[18:59] <arko> might have been temporary
[19:02] <arko> its things like that that scare me when thinking about EDL
[19:02] <arko> say that dipped to something to trigger an error
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[19:23] <LeoBodnar> Gerald Hurst is one of the most brilliant men on the planet. He invented the mylar balloon." http://nypost.com/2011/10/07/incendiary-the-willingham-case/ Really?
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> http://pdf.sumobrain.com/US4077588.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIBOKHYOLP4MBMRGQ&Expires=1385078400&Signature=xXoUeJDw%2BgTBW%2BplRsjJiqY4mtU%3D#view=FitH
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> No permanently buoyant balloons existed before 1978 then?
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[19:28] <malgar> :O
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[19:37] <chrisstubbs> Evening all
[19:37] <ve6ts> hi chrisstubbs
[19:37] <chrisstubbs> Has anyone tried ovivo for mobile data. 750mb/mo for £20 one off (no monthly charges). Looks like an ad supported thing. Should be perfect for chase car use
[19:38] <chrisstubbs> http://ovivomobile.com/offer/ovivo-for-data/
[19:38] <chrisstubbs> 1.5gb for the first month too i think
[19:39] <tjanos> LeoBodnar above put here a link to this collections: http://www.buzzfeed.com/peggy/unexpected-things-to-do-with-balloons I propose change the case, Nr 25: "25. Turn your favorite little one into a walking apple tree..." with this picture: https://sites.google.com/site/mytempterulet/_/rsrc/1384975782497/home/25leo.jpg
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[19:40] <LeoBodnar> Good job hahaha! But it's not my picture :D
[19:42] <tjanos> maybe its true, but this is: http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-1/Images/17.jpg
[19:44] <ve6ts> i love the after pickup balloon shots
[19:44] <tjanos> but now is a little cold there
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> hehe it's the guy I work with
[19:47] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: looks interesting
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> I might give it a try
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> im paying £20 every 3 months for 3gb with three atm anyway
[19:48] <mfa298> I think my Three PAYG+12 is close to the end so this could be a good replacement
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> Uses vodafones network apparently
[19:48] <DL1SGP1> vodoofone
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> I just wonder with the ad supported system, would it screw with things like dlfldigi
[19:48] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> trying to upload data but the server wanting to give you an ad first
[19:49] <tjanos> By the way, I found most usefull this tipp: 5. Freeze water ballons and use them to keep drinks cold at a party. After recovering one, use it in such a way...
[19:49] <DL1SGP> I think the adds would be injected to your html downstream chrisstubbs, same way as they often use for reducing image quality
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> Ah right okay
[19:50] <chrisstubbs> adblockplus should solve that one if they dont have a check in place ;)
[19:50] <DL1SGP> or they redirect you here and then before you get to final destination
[19:50] <DL1SGP> it should be possible to get around it ... yes :)
[19:51] <mfa298> looks like having some sort of proxy setup could be worth it to bypass their advertising.
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> go on then, worth a play for £20
[19:51] <mfa298> one of their pages suggests you might see ads every 5 minutes whilst browsing
[19:51] <mclane> guess I found my first memory leak
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> its only going to be for chase car use now and again, so it wont be to annoying (considering its free)
[19:52] <mclane> POSIX threads seem to be the higher level of programming
[19:52] <mclane> mfa298: your domex code runs fine!
[19:53] <mfa298> mclane: seems to although I've only run it for around an hour at most
[19:53] <mclane> yea; the NTX2b seems to work also at low temperatures
[19:53] <DL1SGP> potentially vpn into a home computer or vps first and have the proxy running on there so that entire http-tcp foo is primarly tunneled and end point is external vpn that runs the proxy
[19:54] <mclane> (tried with cold spray)
[19:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> chrisstubbs, Yes we have just switched to OVIVO, it seems OK use it in a MiFi, haven't had any adverts either while using it :-)
[19:54] <mfa298> threads are fun especially if you want to use C++ (I'm using them in my code - first time with C++ but I've used them in C before)
[19:54] <chrisstubbs> Wow nice Geoff-G8DHE :)
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[19:55] <mclane> I found out that I have to start them in "detached" mode to avoid memory leaks
[19:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not used it much yet, mainly in the camper during summer, we both got a SIM so have 1.5G a month with luck!
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[19:57] Nick change: Gadget-Mac_ -> Gadget-Mac
[19:57] <mfa298> you could probably write it all without threads, they make some things easier but can make working out what's happening more interesting
[19:58] <mclane> yea; but I wanted to have ssdv and the gps/domex data to run in parallel and not wait some seconds in between transmitting ssdv data packets
[19:58] <mclane> to send the gps stuff
[19:59] <mfa298> if you've got your code somewhere I can try having a look although I'm not sure if I'd spot anything
[20:00] <mclane> its on github
[20:00] <mclane> but I have not pushed up the latest version
[20:01] <mclane> https://github.com/mclane/RasPiTracker
[20:01] <mclane> forgive me - i am just a hobby programmer ;-)
[20:02] <mfa298> same here,
[20:02] <mfa298> my RasPi code was my first C++ attempt in around 10 years - and probably the biggest bit of working C++ I've ever written.
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[20:06] <mclane> yea - I decided that c++ is too complicated for me ;-)
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[20:06] <mclane> I started my programming experience with Fortran on a mainframe some 30 yrs ago ;-)
[20:06] <mfa298> I'm not sure C++ is the best way to learn OO Programming. I did a bit of Java and plain C first.
[20:07] <mclane> so I am too old for all that classes and inheritance and overloading stuff ;-))
[20:07] <mfa298> I'm not sure I'm actually doing C++ exactly right but it seems to work
[20:08] <ve6ts> mclane same i stuck with plain c or assembler
[20:08] <mfa298> I used it for my Uni 3rd year project (>10 years ago) doing various things with matrices and it actually made sense for that (My main reason for using it was to learn something new)
[20:09] <mclane> yea, assembler is nice on a simple plain cpu
[20:09] <mfa298> Was nice being able to define Matrix A,B,C; and then do C=A+B in C++
[20:09] <fsphil> 6510 yay ;)
[20:09] <mclane> yea, I started on a 6800
[20:09] <ve6ts> i learnt assembler for the pdp11, never really got to use it for anything real
[20:10] <mclane> with an old tty as terminal and punched paper tape as mass storage
[20:10] <ve6ts> mclane what else do you need?
[20:10] <mclane> yea pdp 11 also was nice
[20:11] <ve6ts> i still want to build a field-hell reciever that prints out in punched tape
[20:11] <fsphil> or draws the letters with a pen
[20:11] <ve6ts> i used field hell for 1 balloon launch so far, plan on using it as a backup to rtty for future launches
[20:12] <mfa298> mclane: looking at what's in your github version (3 days old) it looks like you might not be using threads in the best way.
[20:12] <mclane> no you have to look into the "Threading" branch
[20:12] <mfa298> with the lines that are commented out I think you might end up creating a lot of threads
[20:13] <mfa298> ah missed that
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[20:13] <mclane> I have not yet merged back that stuff
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:15] <mclane> hi Lunar_Lander
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[20:18] <mclane> wie gehts?
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> gut, danke und dir?
[20:18] <mclane> was machen die Aminosäuren?
[20:18] <mclane> alles bestens soweit
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> alles gut da :)
[20:19] <mclane> (ich habe sie gehasst)
[20:22] <mfa298> mclane: looking through the threading branch: It looks like you're creating a thread each time you want to send something which might not be the best way to do things.
[20:23] <mfa298> when you call pthread_create it starts a new thread that runs the function specified in the call and the main function goes straight onto the next bit.
[20:24] <mfa298> the threads should then die once the called function has finished.
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[20:26] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
[20:26] <Willdude123_> mfa298 was it you who recommended Computer Networks by Tanenbaum to me?
[20:26] <Willdude123_> Or was it someone else in the channel
[20:26] <mfa298> in you're code they'll also share some of the memory space. so where you create threads for dominoex and rtty and both update dstatus odd things might happen
[20:26] <cm13g09> Willdude123_: both myself and mfa298
[20:26] <mfa298> Willdude123_: I was one of the people to recommend it
[20:26] <Willdude123_> Ah right, it is a pretty good book
[20:27] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
[20:27] <Willdude123_> Thanks for the recommendation
[20:27] Action: mfa298 knows
[20:27] <Willdude123_> I'm sort of struggling to understand OSI vs TCP/IP
[20:28] <mfa298> it's not really a vs
[20:28] <mclane> yea, mfa298 - its not the cleanest code; dstatus is used to control the flow
[20:29] <mclane> I have to check all the pthread stuff there is certainly a better way how to check if a thread has been finished
[20:30] <mclane> however, it seems to work now; I will leave it running over night
[20:30] <mfa298> OSI is a model of how networks work, TCP/IP is a real implimentation, So Layer 1: physical cabling, Layer 2: Ethernet, Layer 3: IP
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[20:30] <mfa298> you could also map HAB rtty onto the OSI model to some level
[20:32] <mfa298> you'll find that in real networks some of the OSI levels don't exist or are combined.
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[20:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> Willdude123_: i would also recommend tanenbaum :)
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[20:35] <mfa298> mclane: the issue might be that in tx_image where you have that switch statement, in case 2, you'll set dstatus to 3 and create two threads, as the threads end dstatus will either end up as 4 or 5 depending on which thread finishes first.
[20:36] <mfa298> where a variable is being used in various functions you should probably have some mutex locks as well
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[20:37] <mfa298> also I think you'll never leave tx_image due to the while(1) loop and nothing to get out of it.
[20:39] <mfa298> The way I've done it is to create a set of threads early on, one reading gps, one for each ntx2, These threads stay running whilst the code is running (effectivly a while 1 loop in each thread) I then query the threads to either get data (gps) or send data (ntx2s)
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[20:41] <mclane> yea, well analyzed. the rtty thread always ends earlier (since 600 baud)
[20:42] <mclane> yes, the tx_image loop is the main loop and will never end
[20:43] <mclane> I will do an architecture cleanup next before adding new features (contoling of the raspi cam)
[20:44] <mfa298> I'm not sure what difference the detatched state will make
[20:45] <mclane> it seems to free the memory on the stack
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[20:45] <mclane> without it memory consumption seems to increase and at one time there is not enough stack to create new instances of threads
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[20:46] <mfa298> if the thread is joinable you can always use pthread_join in the main thread which will cause that main thread to wait until the threadid in the argument has completed
[20:47] <mclane> yea, I read that, but that is not what I wanted - the main thread should continue
[20:47] <mclane> to run in parallel to the domex thread
[20:48] <mclane> since I have two NTX2 TX
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> mclane, oh
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> you also had to know the amino acids by heart one time?
[20:48] <mclane> one running 600 bd rtty for the ssdv interleaved with gps and another one for domex
[20:49] <mclane> Lunar_Lander: no; I had to learn them with my daughter for her Abi
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> as a homework for one of the lectures, one task was to sort them into classes
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> and I put Glycine into "non polar" as the prof had this on his slides
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[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> and it was returned as being wrong, and Wikipedia says that it is a polar amino acid
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> but in fact somehow it is right at the edge between those
[20:50] <mfa298> that's why I went for having a thread per ntx2 but have them keep going. The idea is that I can query each thread to see how it's doing and queue up data as needed.
[20:51] <mfa298> the main thread just keeps going asking the gps thread for data, creating strings and giving them tothe
[20:51] <mclane> yea, maybe I have to set up something like this
[20:51] <mfa298> to the rtty and dominoex threads
[20:51] <mfa298> C++ might have made some of that easier as each thread is wrapped inside the class.
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[20:53] <mclane> winter will be long enough to make some nice designed sw
[20:53] <mclane> nicely
[20:53] <mclane> designed sw
[20:54] <mclane> even though we still have one launch slot with NOTAM mid December
[20:54] <mclane> but then we will use an existing payload
[20:55] <mfa298> well you can see from my repositry that I first commited that in September (and I've not done any of the SSDV bits yet)
[20:56] <mfa298> there had also been a lot of work before that (I'd got a fair bit working before even commiting it)
[20:57] <mclane> I can imagine
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[20:57] <mclane> I just copied the ssdv stuff from fsphil
[20:59] <mclane> I have used that already on my arm-based tracker
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[21:12] <mclane> mfa298: what kind of power supply are you planning to use?
[21:13] <mfa298> not got that far yet
[21:13] <mfa298> probably some form of switchmode psu (or two)
[21:13] <mclane> actually I have a ebay-type boost converter
[21:14] <mfa298> if I only need 3v3 I'll use daveake's tricks and a single psu, if I also need 5v I'll probably end up with two
[21:14] <mclane> runs at about 0.5 A at 3 V - thats a little too high for the energizers
[21:15] <mfa298> I'd also be tempted to try one of the battery packs you can get, although I'm not sure they'll be good for altitude
[21:15] <mclane> what kind of batteries?
[21:16] <mclane> I always used energizer ultimate aa's
[21:16] <mclane> they have 3 Ah according to the datasheet
[21:17] <mclane> should be good for 4-5h operation in my setup
[21:17] <mfa298> I'd probably use energizer ultimates as they're known to be good. Otherwise it might be testing the Power Bank type devices (Li-ion with usb output)
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[21:18] <mfa298> but I don't know how well they'de do for lower temp/low pressure (temp might not drop that much for a short flight with a pi on board
[21:19] <mclane> I have seen down to -20 C in my payload already - I guess that is not good for ordinary LiIon batteries
[21:20] <mclane> however, the Pi will generate enoughheat to keep the batteries warm
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[21:21] <bertrik> are qualatex *latex* balloons (e.g. the 36 inch spherical) any good for habbing?
[21:22] <mfa298> I think a couple of the early pi flights had the opposite issues (overheating) although I think that was Model-B with not mods or power saving
[21:22] <mclane> question to the RasPi tracker community: is it necessary to attach a cooling device to the bcm2835 to radiate the heat better?
[21:22] <mclane> at high altitude without real convection?
[21:23] <mfa298> I don't think anyone has done that.
[21:23] <mfa298> I think the real heat issue was with the Linear Reg on board (which is easy enough to replace(
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[21:30] <jedas> is that convection so much decreased ?
[21:30] <jedas> it's still the air for the god sake :)
[21:31] <mclane> yea, but at 30 km you have just a few mbar
[21:32] <mclane> compared to 1000 at sea level
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[21:32] <mclane> so convection is much decreased
[21:32] <jedas> hm, never realised that it's so low
[21:34] <malgar> what's happened to b-31?
[21:34] <mclane> see here: http://www.pirnay.com/cache/a/6a9b066533f7b6d311f2b2cf3cd85524.png
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> bertrik: yes, they go to above 11000m
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> at least
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[21:38] <SpeedEvil> It is kinda hard to find scientific papers on paper.
[21:38] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Searches kinda break.
[21:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[21:38] <bertrik> LeoBodnar: we have a couple of those qualatex 36 inch latex balloons and a pico tracker board already, just seeing if the things we have can be used
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[21:39] <LeoBodnar> I have used Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA down to -59C http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-27/3.png
[21:40] <arko> too bad they arent rechargable
[21:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> all: i need someone who knows english better than me :-)
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> bertrik: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-1/index.html
[21:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> what does it means: Due to rising threshold voltages at cold temperatures,
[21:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> it is recommend that the MCP1640/B/C/D minimum
[21:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> output voltage is 1.8 V for ambient temperatures
[21:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> greater than 0°C
[21:41] <bertrik> LeoBodnar: oh cool, thanks, that confirms it :)
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> it means that the temperature shoult be greater than 0 deg for 1.8 V?
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> should ?
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> Can you link the datasheet?
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/01311a.pdf
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> page 9
[21:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> this sentence makes no sense to me
[21:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> but im not native speaker ;-)
[21:45] <arko> wow
[21:45] <arko> B-1 was fat
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[21:46] <Laurenceb__> B-31 popped over Andorra?>
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> Couldn't stand the pressure
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[21:49] <Laurenceb__> heh
[21:49] Action: Laurenceb__ is still trying to bond nylon to polycarbonate
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> funtimes
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: it means that for temperatures greater than 0C you should not use Vout lower than 1.8v
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[21:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: cool :-)
[21:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: thank You
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[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: flexible/
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> heh
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> *huh?
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> it doesnt have to be flexible
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> its for assembling pneumatic connectors
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> try bonding polycarbonate to nylon instead
[21:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL, someone wants to see some exaggerated polish folk ;-) ?
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> i tried regular superglue but it peels right off after about a week
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> I'm sure I diddn't imagine a nice 3M product for that
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> lol LeoBodnar
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> im trying "Prism 401" now
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> That is you'd input two materials and conditions, and out popped a glue
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> Loctite have a database like that
[21:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://youtu.be/rr1DSgjhRqE?t=49s
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> it suggested prism 401...
[21:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
[21:54] <DL1SGP> if it does not work it leaves you clue... err glueles
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> so ill see if its bonded tomorrow...
[21:55] <DL1SGP> Good evening Tom :)
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> ohh Prism!
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> tried epxoy and that fails badly
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL1SGP: evening :-)
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1075577&MER=bn-me-ca-r1-best-too-1
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: did you see that CF/nanotube thing I linked?
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> cool headphones
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> yes
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> looked interesting
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: Plus, don't forget the distance selling rules :)
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> but not as exciting as http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/epoxy-putties/0691218/
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> I have one of them Laurenceb__ with retrofit CNC kit
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> liquid aluminium :P
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> oh cool
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> thats just what i was thinking for it
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> you got there already :D
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[21:58] <Maxell> Tempting, but way to dangerous ;-) http://i.sigio.nl/9f7f3db644dcb9fc87bedf01408927e1.jpg
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> I have installed preloaded ball bearings
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> *thrust bearings
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[21:59] <malgar> LeoBodnar: where is B-31?
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> It's ok-ish
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Somewhere in Pyrenees I believe
[21:59] <malgar> landed?
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> And I mean in not over
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[22:00] <LeoBodnar> Looks like it. Last point was at 2000m going down at 2m/s
[22:00] <malgar> uh, ok.. I read 6000m
[22:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> they are singing in refrain "we slovians know how use our body language, how to exploit this what mother gave in genes" :-)
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[22:00] <LeoBodnar> So either burst or really heavy icing/rain
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[22:03] <sa6bss> cool thing if you want to waterproof something, wonder how this should work with electronics ?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWncPVO1o7s
[22:04] <sa6bss> fastforwart to just after 5min in
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[22:09] <Laurenceb__> this place seems cheap
[22:09] <Laurenceb__> http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Default.aspx
[22:10] <Laurenceb__> lots of interesting stuff
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[22:13] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: know anything about epoxy resins?
[22:13] <Laurenceb__> im trying to thicken some epoxy
[22:13] <Laurenceb__> tried leaving it for a few hours before applying, but thats not ideal, its too "springy"
[22:13] <Laurenceb__> http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/resin-gel-silicone/fillers-and-additives/fumed-silica-thixotropic-powder.aspx
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> ^do i need this?
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> We have contacts with the guys who make all composite parts for most F1 racing teams - all body parts and steering wheels
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> sounds interesting
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[22:15] <LeoBodnar> And a few other independent carbon fibre workshops
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> Kevlar is cool!
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> "effectively turning it into a gelcoat and allowing it to cling to sides of steep moulds"
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> sounds like my problem - ill try some
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> Personally I just use either Araldite or some pink stuff that came from the pro facility
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> heh
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> It smells of ammonia and takes a day to set buts strong as hell
[22:17] <Laurenceb__> yeah i need biocompatible epoxy
[22:17] <Laurenceb__> dunno how adding silica effects it, but it would appear to be chemically inert
[22:18] <Laurenceb__> so i should be in the clear
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[22:18] <LeoBodnar> It is better to use epoxy of specific viscosity from the outset
[22:18] <Laurenceb__> yeah, in an ideal world
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> It will make it structurally brittle I believe
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> but the ISO10993 stuff is in a limited number of grades
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> yeah im just using it as a paint
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> Then it is no problem
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> to coat some ABS parts
[22:20] <Laurenceb__> its all very silly - for insurance purposes
[22:20] <Laurenceb__> so "no risk of allergic reactions"
[22:21] <Laurenceb__> or more accuracy "so there is someone else to blame if it all goes wrong"
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Aren't there readymade epoxy based paints?
[22:21] <Laurenceb__> not ISO10993
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> There might be a good reason :D
[22:22] <Laurenceb__> yeah i really dont see how an epoxy could ever be biocompatible
[22:22] <Laurenceb__> but Loctite claim theirs is
[22:23] <Laurenceb__> i have the documentation.. evil rabbit experiments
[22:24] <LeoBodnar> Then just use theirs and stick their flier into your ISO binder
[22:24] <Laurenceb__> yeah thats my plan atm :D
[22:25] <LeoBodnar> Sounds like you will be out of that place in 2-3 years
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[22:26] <Laurenceb__> huh
[22:26] <LeoBodnar> Must be riveting job
[22:26] <Laurenceb__> hopefully not that long
[22:26] <Laurenceb__> heh
[22:26] <Laurenceb__> well im effectively working by myself
[22:27] <LeoBodnar> Get yourself pay rise then
[22:27] <Laurenceb__> i have 0 input from managers or anything, have to work this all out for myself, organise meeting with NHS etc
[22:27] <Laurenceb__> heh, yeah i might try for a job with Smith and Nephew
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[22:29] <Laurenceb__> bbl
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[22:49] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, http://bit.ly/1b8PSg3
[22:49] <chrisstubbs> seems pretty cheap for a pre boxed thing. Blergh wired and double blergh SCART though aha
[22:52] <malgar> blergh
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[22:55] Nick change: ghoti_ -> ghoti
[23:00] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: I was looking more at that ovivo thing and it's looking way to good to be true, but seems to have some good reviews on hot uk deals
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[23:01] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, yeah I know what you mean. I suppose it could all go bust if they run out of money. But I dont think its likely for a few months
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite a few people wonder how long they will last .... especially when you don't see adverts!
[23:01] <chrisstubbs> even if it works for 4 months its still one of the best deals around
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite!
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[23:02] <chrisstubbs> mine is on order :D Is it slow/fast Geoff-G8DHE?
[23:02] <mfa298> there seemed to be a couple of people on hukd who've been using it for a few months (even someone for a couple of years) so might be relativly stable
[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> About 2-3 working days, then pop the SIM in and your away
[23:03] <chrisstubbs> I meant data speeds :P But thats still good to know
[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> speed and coverage as you would expect for Vodafone .....
[23:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> round town fine Welsh beaches don't expect anything
[23:05] <mfa298> seems worth getting even if you prefer someone else most of the time (three/ giff gaff) just so you've got access to an alternate network.
[23:05] <chrisstubbs> lol I seem to find o2 do well in the countryside and big towns, but are useless on most of our side of the M25
[23:06] <mfa298> Might need to get an openwrt router going and more 3g dongles so I can have it swap over if the connection on one is bad
[23:07] <chrisstubbs> I have a teltonika RUT-104 3G router but my old android phone as a hotspot seems to work far better
[23:07] <chrisstubbs> it didnt even detect the sim last time i tried the proper router
[23:08] <mfa298> I've got a fairly old Zoom £G router which seems to do ok, and a Huawei dongle which I found out how to unlock.
[23:08] <mfa298> I've used that setup on three and giffgaff.
[23:09] <mfa298> I'm tempted to try getting another TP link WR1043ND (or something better), and with openwrt and a usb hub it should be possible to have multiple 3g dongles
[23:09] <chrisstubbs> 3 are great but as soon as your out of 3g they are useless
[23:10] <mfa298> one of the places we've tried mobile internet O2 wasn't much better (that was out in the New Forest with craag and we ended up having dongles on long usb cables up a pole to get any signal)
[23:10] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, http://ebay.eu/1b8RRRI
[23:10] <chrisstubbs> ALL THE NETWORKS
[23:11] <chrisstubbs> if that would be any use for data i have no idea
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[23:12] <mfa298> openwrt and a suitable router with USB port(s) and USB hub it should be possible to get all the networks if you've got sim's and dongles
[23:12] <chrisstubbs> Oh neat
[23:13] <chrisstubbs> Didnt know they would support multiple. Sounds expensive on contracts though :P
[23:13] <mfa298> you might need to fiddle in the command line but I don't see why you can't have multiple 3G dongles
[23:14] <mfa298> you might just need a USB hub to plug them into
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[23:24] <mfa298> right, that's me registered as well, lets see how well this works.
[23:42] <chrisstubbs> Im off, laters!
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[00:00] --- Thu Nov 21 2013