highaltitude.log.20131119

[00:00] <arko> hopefully they see it
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander__> arko, apperantly it is in libraries all over the US
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander__> and in London
[00:01] <qyx_> it's a pity that we don't have CSI-like realtime sattelite images
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[00:01] <LeoBodnar> I tried helping OZ1SKY by dragging his car icon to the bottom of the tree but it spring back onto the road. I thought this is fully interactive :(
[00:01] <qyx_> *satellite
[00:01] <arko> LeoBodnar: hahaha
[00:01] <arko> this isnt the sims
[00:01] <craag> lol LeoBodnar, didn't realise you could do that :P
[00:02] Action: craag now tries dragging the balloon out of the tree..
[00:02] <arko> its too bad you cant drag the hab to england
[00:02] <craag> awww doesn't work
[00:02] <arko> hah
[00:02] <LeoBodnar> *shaking the map
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[00:02] <LeoBodnar> *turns laptop upside down
[00:03] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[00:03] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[00:05] <LeoBodnar> Average altitude reading I got is 70m
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[00:06] <arko> they must be there by now
[00:06] <arko> hope they brought a stick
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander__> XD
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[00:10] <PE2G> According to Google, terrain elevation is ~40 m at the landing spot
[00:13] <arko> move damn it!
[00:13] <arko> odds are its probably stuck up high
[00:13] <arko> entering a pile of trees from the top probably means it didnt get too far down
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[00:21] <MobileNathan> Where are you guys discussing?
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[00:22] <LeoBodnar> arko it probably now has positive buoyancy so shaking the tree just makes it go higher.
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[00:23] <arko> yeah
[00:23] <LeoBodnar> And just when you were to reach for it it floats away
[00:24] <LeoBodnar> so maybe deflating it first would be the best approach
[00:24] <arko> haha
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[00:24] <arko> bb gun
[00:24] <arko> poke a few holes in it
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[00:25] <MobileNathan> Lol.
[00:25] <LeoBodnar> but how would I know, I haven't retrieved a single foil myself
[00:25] <arko> wait, didnt you get that one back?
[00:25] <arko> B-12?
[00:25] <arko> or something
[00:26] <arko> i wonder where OZ1SKY_Brian is now
[00:26] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I have waited for kids to march down the hill with it to their car and met them there :D
[00:26] <arko> ahhh
[00:26] <qyx_> lol
[00:26] <arko> you only have 1 of the back?
[00:27] <LeoBodnar> yeah, not a bad score what do you think?
[00:27] <craag> 1/30. I think that's the worst recovery rate out of anyone :P
[00:27] <arko> haha
[00:27] <LeoBodnar> except NASA
[00:27] <arko> lol
[00:27] <craag> worst amateur recovery rate then
[00:27] <arko> you see, as a nasa person i see it as 29/30
[00:27] <arko> they werent suppose to return :P
[00:27] <craag> oh mission success rate you're up there with the best of em!
[00:28] <arko> yeah, Leo has that down
[00:28] <arko> probably most launches in a year too
[00:28] <craag> yep
[00:28] <arko> i've never heard of 30 in 1 year
[00:28] <LeoBodnar> Year is not over yet.
[00:28] <craag> :D
[00:29] <arko> haha :)
[00:29] <arko> heh its getting dark here
[00:29] <LeoBodnar> And I started in June
[00:29] <arko> true, so half the year
[00:29] <arko> damn
[00:29] <arko> thats crazy
[00:29] <wd8mnv> may be plenty of pree filled party balloons on new years eve too
[00:29] <arko> i want your hab budget
[00:29] <MobileNathan> arko: I hate how it gets dark so early now in CA.
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[00:29] <arko> seriously
[00:30] <arko> and its cold
[00:30] <arko> so weird
[00:30] <MobileNathan> I know, this is supposed to be CALIFORNIA! It's never cold!!!
[00:30] <wd8mnv> have to bring the sun indoors lighting wise
[00:30] <craag> how cold may I ask?
[00:30] <LeoBodnar> Payload says +6C
[00:31] <LeoBodnar> Ah, in CA?
[00:31] <MobileNathan> yeah, I'm getting 64ºF
[00:31] <craag> err SIbot can you help me out here?
[00:31] <craag> nope
[00:31] <mfa298> 17C
[00:31] <MobileNathan> Brb guys.
[00:31] <mfa298> or 18C if you round it properly
[00:31] <craag> balmy warm then :)
[00:31] <LeoBodnar> It's 17ft cold
[00:31] <SIbot> In real units: 17 ft = 5.18 m
[00:32] <mfa298> that's a summer temperature isn't it ?
[00:32] <wd8mnv> 57F here
[00:32] <LeoBodnar> Last car update was 40 minutes ago.
[00:33] <LeoBodnar> I hope they have retrieved it and switched the app off
[00:33] <craag> It'd be good to have a 'WE FOUND IT' button on the app
[00:33] <LeoBodnar> APRS update
[00:33] <LeoBodnar> same tree
[00:34] <craag> That adds a hab sticking out of the boot of the car or something.
[00:34] <arko> crap
[00:34] <arko> hopefully they are ok
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[00:35] <craag> Probably struggling to find it. It's hard enough to find stuff in trees in daylight.
[00:35] <wd8mnv> needs a blinking LED
[00:35] <arko> heh
[00:35] <mfa298> craag: if you're going to have a symbol like that you really need to use these balloons http://alistairpott.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/missiles.jpg
[00:35] <arko> when position doesnt change for more than 15minutes
[00:35] <arko> blink away
[00:36] <arko> however with torches they should be able to spot it since the balloon is mylar no?
[00:37] <craag> arko: Would make it easier
[00:37] <mfa298> assuming they have one of those mega torches Dave and Upu have got. (the ones that make the older million candle lamps look like a led)
[00:38] <craag> haha
[00:38] <craag> Dave is very proud of his torch
[00:38] <LeoBodnar> I would be too
[00:39] <MobileNathan> Arko: just checked the weather for the next few days. It's supposed to rain on Saturday...
[00:39] <MobileNathan> If it does, is the launch off?
[00:39] <arko> possible
[00:39] <arko> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/habexpico2/
[00:40] <arko> looking at maybe doing friday or sunday
[00:40] <arko> i'll let you know
[00:40] <MobileNathan> Allrighty, thanks. I'll be here.
[00:40] <arko> cool
[00:41] <arko> update again
[00:42] <arko> still in a tree :/
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[00:45] <arko> its in the field!
[00:46] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[00:46] <arko> come on baby
[00:46] <arko> get that out of there
[00:47] <arko> damn it
[00:47] <arko> gps drift?
[00:48] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ -> Steve_G0TDJ_AFK
[00:48] <LeoBodnar> tree drift
[00:51] <arko> damn tree drift!
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[00:53] <LeoBodnar> Still there...
[00:53] <arko> wonder if he's still there
[00:54] <arko> the car is in the same place
[00:54] <arko> but an hour ago
[00:54] <LeoBodnar> I hope not and there is some plan in action we don't know about
[00:54] <LeoBodnar> The last car update was an hour ago
[00:55] <arko> hmm
[00:55] <LeoBodnar> I am going to bed for now, see you tomorrow chaps!
[00:55] <MobileNathan> Good night!
[00:55] <qyx_> gn
[00:56] <PH3V> gn
[00:56] <arko> night Leo!
[00:56] <LeoBodnar> Thanks to all who patiently tracked B-30 and OZ1SKY for the rescue expedition!
[00:57] <LeoBodnar> Good night!
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[00:58] <DL7AD> did Brian sleep in? ^^
[01:02] <Lunar_Lander__> xD
[01:02] <arko> haha
[01:02] <arko> he might be sleeping in his car
[01:02] <arko> shouldnt you guys be asleep?
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander__> yea it's 2:04 am
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander__> but
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander__> MAVEN is on its way!!
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander__> :)
[01:06] <arko> i doubt you'll be able to not sleep until sept 22 2014
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[01:10] <debrisrat> hi '
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[01:13] <arko> hello
[01:17] <Lunar_Lander__> good night!
[01:17] <Lunar_Lander__> arko, you are right :)
[01:18] <arko> heh
[01:18] <arko> night
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[01:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh too bad we could´nt reach it
[01:25] <arko> HEY!
[01:25] <arko> what happen!?
[01:25] <arko> you take pictures?
[01:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> we could see it up a tree
[01:25] <arko> ah!!
[01:25] <arko> awesome!
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[01:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no it was too dark for pictures
[01:25] <arko> whats the plan?
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[01:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> calling the landowner tomorrow
[01:26] <arko> ah smart
[01:26] <arko> :) nice work man
[01:26] <arko> we were watching here at the edge of our seats
[01:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i knew the chances where slim, but me and my buddy had a good trip anyway
[01:26] <arko> :)
[01:27] <arko> how high up is it?
[01:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and its 90% freeways all the way, so didnt take that long
[01:27] <arko> nice
[01:27] <arko> looked like a 45min drive or so
[01:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ill say 15-20m or so
[01:27] <arko> ouch
[01:27] <arko> thats up there
[01:27] <DL7AD> OZ1SKY_Brian: do you think it can detach itself?
[01:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it might, the branches where pretty small in that tree
[01:28] <arko> was the balloon still inflated?
[01:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but we didnt try to get up in it, its was too dark, raining and swamp around it
[01:29] <arko> oh wow
[01:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> arko only by a margin
[01:29] <arko> hmm
[01:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i could not see the tracker, but the ballon was easy to see with the spotlight
[01:29] <arko> cool, hopefully the land owners tomorrow will be nice enough to alllow you to recover
[01:30] <DL7AD> fell the tree!
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[01:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes lets see what he says, i better clear off now, alarmclock goes off in less than 5 hours
[01:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> goodnight all
[01:31] <DL7AD> gn
[01:32] <DL7AD> good morning arko
[01:33] <arko> hey hey
[01:33] <arko> good night OZ1SKY_Brian
[01:33] <arko> nice work !
[01:33] <DL7AD> okay... lets start my night shift
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[02:19] <heathkid> arko: who's launched a tracker using a RFM22B-S2?
[02:20] <heathkid> I know someone here has on a pico...
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[03:59] <arko> yes people have before
[03:59] <arko> i havent personaly
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[04:40] <heathkid> do you remember who has?
[04:40] <heathkid> Upu?
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[06:10] <DL7AD> good morning
[06:11] <MobileNathan> Morning? It's 10:11 P.M. for me.
[06:11] <MobileNathan> Lol.
[06:11] <MobileNathan> But good morning to you.
[06:11] <DL7AD> good evening in your part of the world ;) MobileNathan
[06:11] <MobileNathan> Lol, thank you DL7AD :)
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[06:14] <det_> gm, did OZ1SKY get hold of B-30 or is he waiting for sunrise?
[06:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[06:15] <x-f> morning
[06:15] <x-f> det_, they found it in a tree but were unable to retrieve it, will try something today again
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[06:16] <MobileNathan> It's in someone else's land, isn't it? I heard OZ1SKY was going to call the landowner tomorrow and ask to get it down.
[06:16] <DL7AD> they have been really near... i recommended them to fell the tree
[06:16] <det_> x-f that is perfect, first B-balloon to be recovered, I guess
[06:17] <DL7AD> MobileNathan: yes
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[06:17] <DL7AD> det_: second or third. but first in a forgein country
[06:19] <det_> I see, nice idea to have it in one`s collection or maybe even to re-launch it
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[06:22] <det_> Thanks, see you later, must leave now.
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[06:23] <x-f> one B was recovered in NL recently
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[06:35] <DutchMillbt> Good morning all... is there a B31 ....and up?
[06:35] <Upu> not yet DutchMillbt
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[06:36] <DutchMillbt> ... so this was the last B-HAB for the moment?
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[06:38] <Upu> well for the next few hours I suspect yes
[06:41] <DutchMillbt> sorry Upu I meant how many B's are still in the planning
[06:42] <Upu> oh I have no idea
[06:42] <Upu> best ask leo
[06:42] <DutchMillbt> yep i do
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[08:24] <DL1SGP> good morning
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[08:26] <jphoglund> morning
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[08:31] <fsphil> morn
[08:33] <LeoBodnar> morning
[08:33] <DL1SGP> hi LeoBodnar, fsphil, jphoglund
[08:34] Action: DL1SGP needs coffee and breakfast
[08:34] <tjanos> Good morning! are there any news from B-30? Seems, the last data was 23:44:17
[08:34] <LeoBodnar> so what happened at the end of OZ1SKY mission?
[08:34] <LeoBodnar> Brian went to recover it at 1AM
[08:35] <DL1SGP> heh
[08:35] <DL1SGP> it was quite a bit of drive for him
[08:35] <DL1SGP> (2:29:49 AM) OZ1SKY_Brian: i could not see the tracker, but the ballon was easy to see with the spotlight
[08:35] <DL1SGP> consider it recovered
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[08:37] <DL1SGP> (2:25:44 AM) OZ1SKY_Brian: we could see it up a tree
[08:37] <DL1SGP> (2:29:52 AM) arko: cool, hopefully the land owners tomorrow will be nice enough to alllow you to recover
[08:38] <DL1SGP> there, the balloon has been spotted but is trapped in a tree which needs clearance by landlord.... at 01:29 UTC ringing at a danish door can be dangerous. so we gonna see what today brings :)
[08:39] <tjanos> Thanks. We are waiting
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[09:02] <cionki> hi all
[09:02] <cionki> i'm quite new here :) and I have some noob questions
[09:02] <fsphil> good place for them :)
[09:02] <tjanos> are there any new data from B-30?
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[09:04] <tjanos> is it left the tree, and start to walk on the field?
[09:04] <fsphil> it's on private land
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[09:05] <fsphil> I believe he's going to go back and ask the land owner
[09:05] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:06] <tjanos> I see on aprs.fi, there is new position of it
[09:07] <UpuWork> 3am this morning
[09:08] <fsphil> what's HB-B-30?
[09:08] <fsphil> someone uploading habitat data?
[09:10] <x-f> yep, every balloon since some time now is on aprs.fi with the HB- prefix
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> Brian said he talked to the landowner and got permission to take it down
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> to retreeve it
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> it's not treevial
[09:10] <fsphil> ooch
[09:10] <fsphil> try not to branch out too far
[09:11] <LeoBodnar> Hopefully the plan will come to fruition
[09:12] <fsphil> that's nuts
[09:13] <tjanos> do we hope at least one picture about the tree? or the recover team?
[09:13] <fsphil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/19/lohan_autopilot_update/
[09:14] <fsphil> suffers from a bit of VVS
[09:16] <DL1SGP> I had coffee, food ... much better!
[09:17] <x-f> time for a nap?
[09:19] <DL1SGP> nah need to do some scheduling on appointments, got an appointment with a state authority which collides with appointment with a local administration so local administration will get canceled
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[09:33] <LeoBodnar> It's a slow day... http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/kitteh-scope.jpg
[09:33] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/kitteh-chip.jpg
[09:33] <fsphil> dud that require purrfect frequency?
[09:33] <fsphil> and better spelling
[09:34] <eroomde> did you design it yourself or does it come as a Kitty?
[09:35] <DL1SGP> aww cuuute kittehstuff, meow
[09:35] <LeoBodnar> It is a part number 231-8552 from Furrynell
[09:35] <eroomde> i want that scope
[09:35] <eroomde> farnell are practically giving them away now
[09:36] <DL1SGP> Can I haz Kittehscopez?
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> come and get it, i take any R&S as a fair swap
[09:36] <eroomde> i'm not sure i'd be alowed to swap it :)
[09:38] <LeoBodnar> It's a 3v reset chip fed with 5v sine wave
[09:38] <eroomde> i was getting there!
[09:39] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[09:39] <LeoBodnar> needs a pullup sadly
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[09:41] <eroomde> curse buying a house, i want to buy electronics equipment
[09:41] <fsphil> you can fill said house with (cheap) electronics equipment
[09:42] <eroomde> yes possibly
[09:42] <eroomde> poor person staying in the spare room
[09:42] <eroomde> I'll have to vet them to make sure they're not too static
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[09:43] <LeoBodnar> low noise neighbours
[09:43] <eroomde> is the sig gen in the agilent useful?
[09:43] <Andrew_M6GTG> morning, did they recover B-30 last night?
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> I use it from time to time
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> like today
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> Oh, I have done some cool signal sweeps - poor man's spectrum analyser
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[09:46] <Andrew_M6GTG> LeoBodnar: Hi Leo, did the chase team find B-30 last night?
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> you can control sig gen via the USB bus and get readings from the scope via same USB bus
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> so you can emulate NA
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[09:47] <DL1SGP> Andrew_M6GTG: they found it
[09:47] <eroomde> that's pretty cool
[09:47] <eroomde> though i guess not at RF freqs :)
[09:47] <DL1SGP> it has not been recovered yet due to being stuck in a tree
[09:47] <eroomde> i really want the R&S ZVL
[09:47] <Andrew_M6GTG> DL1SGP: great news
[09:47] <eroomde> we had a good fling
[09:47] <eroomde> and i miss her
[09:48] <LeoBodnar> Andrew_M6GTG: Brian could see it in the tree but it was too high, cold and wet. He got a permission to remove it later
[09:48] <LeoBodnar> sig gen is up to 20MHz only
[09:49] <LeoBodnar> It's a useful toy
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[09:49] <LeoBodnar> You need to buy a licence key for that but I have ... you know
[09:55] <eroomde> i know
[09:56] <eroomde> a nicer day today then yesterday
[09:56] <eroomde> good for more rocket firings
[09:56] <ibanezmatt13> it was snowing here before
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[10:00] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ_AFK -> Steve_G0TDJ
[10:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> 'Morning Guys
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13> morning :)
[10:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hiya Matt
[10:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Late start today, I@ve been knee deep in stuff
[10:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh! B-30 found :-)
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[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> can anyone recommend a decent Vreg to step 12v down to 3v3? :/
[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, I could step down to 5v actually
[10:07] <eroomde> there are thousands
[10:07] <eroomde> no exaggeration
[10:07] <eroomde> if you want, go to the TI webpage
[10:07] <eroomde> and use their calculator thingamie that will recommend parts
[10:07] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, thanks
[10:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> TPS16016
[10:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> Sorry, TPS61016 - I always seem to get those figures swapped for some reason. Mental block
[10:10] <LeoBodnar> 1st you need to decide whether it is linear or switched
[10:11] <eroomde> to help you decide, how cold is your room currently?
[10:12] <LeoBodnar> efficient small and dirty vs big clean and wasteful
[10:13] <LeoBodnar> then as Ed said it a simple choice of picking one from few thousands :D
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> yes, the Ti calculator thing seems really good
[10:13] <eroomde> it is
[10:13] <eroomde> you can optimise for parts count, efficiency, whatever
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> well, my room will probably range from extremes of 15 deg C to say 30. Efficiency is not a problem really, it's running off a mains adapter
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> so I just need to step my 12V dc supply down enough for an ATMEGA328, Ti has thrown a load of suggestions for me anyway :)
[10:16] <ibanezmatt13> TPS62133 looking like a good one
[10:19] <nats`> <eroomde> [10:44:26] i really want the R&S ZVL <= we have one at work that's such a beauty
[10:19] <eroomde> yep
[10:19] <nats`> if you get one take care of having the Spectrum analyzer software option
[10:20] <nats`> (crappy lab equipment politic)
[10:20] <eroomde> i would
[10:20] <eroomde> used that option a lot whenwe borrowed one
[10:20] <eroomde> we have a project soon that might justify buying one
[10:21] <eroomde> which would be the jazz
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[10:22] <nats`> :)
[10:22] <nats`> I think for my bedroom I'll try to get a zvre
[10:23] <nats`> a little old but more in my price range :D
[10:24] <eroomde> R&S is an expensive habit, gotta make concessions
[10:24] <nats`> any VNA are expensive
[10:24] <nats`> there is a big gap between SA or SNA
[10:25] <nats`> and VNA
[10:25] <nats`> agilent is in the same price range
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> off to college, bye :)
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[10:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/19/lohan_autopilot_update/
[10:31] <fsphil> wish we could do that here
[10:31] <fsphil> the video is great
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[10:36] <Laurenceb> good weather for launching a B-31 today
[10:36] <fsphil> not snowing there?
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[10:40] <LeoBodnar> I think B-30 hit some unstable configuration point that kept it oscillating. combination of gas volume, free lift, skin water retention
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> there were some 6 hours of very clean oscillations
[10:42] <Laurenceb> looked to me like it was hitting cloud layers
[10:47] <Laurenceb> seems if you launch with some clean air
[10:47] <Laurenceb> you should more or less move with it
[10:47] <Laurenceb> obviously theres shear and evaporation from the ground and stuff
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[11:08] <Laurenceb> has anyone here ever ordered from "vertical"?
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[11:10] <eroomde> i love it when sales people are keen to sell their stuff to you
[11:10] LeoBodnar_ (569aa72f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.154.167.47) joined #highaltitude.
[11:10] <eroomde> "Hello, my name is Ed Moore and I'm calling from Airborne Engineering in Buckinghamshire. I'm interested in getting a $FOO and am looking for advice on some of the options"
[11:11] <eroomde> "oh."
[11:11] <fsphil> haha
[11:11] <fsphil> I've had this happen
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[11:11] <PB0NER> isleonotflying?.com
[11:14] <eroomde> that's a crap name for an island
[11:16] <hackvana> I get my pens from PenIsland.com
[11:17] <eroomde> expers exchange etc
[11:17] <eroomde> experts*
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[11:17] <fsphil> you wouldn't want an amateur one
[11:17] <adamgreig> experts-exchange.com? nothing wrong with that ;)
[11:17] <adamgreig> can't believe how long it took them to put that hyphen in
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[11:28] <gonzo_> I have a t-0shirt from a festival where the waddsworth brewery run the bar and the shirt read 6X Therapissed
[11:28] <gonzo_> it has been read as 6x the rapissed
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[11:39] <Laurenceb> yeah vertical are weird
[11:40] <Laurenceb> my order has been "processing" for days now :-/
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[11:52] <nats`> "Never do processing in interruption" I wonder how people can still continue to put more than 300 line of code in a timer interrupt -_-
[11:52] <nats`> seen on a manufacturer demoboard
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[11:53] <Laurenceb> nats': depends on the hardware and the requirements
[11:53] <Laurenceb> e.g. on cortex with nvic you can have nesting interrupts
[11:55] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[12:08] <nats`> Laurenceb why don't do it in the main ?
[12:08] <nats`> letting interrupt working in a simple way ?
[12:09] <nats`> maybe there are some advantage I ignore on that point
[12:09] <Laurenceb> like timing and event driven code :D
[12:10] <Laurenceb> "Never do processing in interruption" is basically a lesson for n00bs
[12:10] <nats`> I still apply it :D
[12:10] <nats`> I hate spaghetties :p
[12:10] <Vostok> i do everything in interrupts
[12:10] <Laurenceb> "Interrupts will prevent other interrupts at the same nesting level from running whilst they complete, consider worst case timing"
[12:11] <Laurenceb> is a better statement
[12:11] <Laurenceb> i use ChibiOS for everything :-)
[12:12] <nats`> in that case it's a timer what happen if I add more code or activate new interrupt on the uC ?
[12:13] <Laurenceb> work it out on paper
[12:13] <Laurenceb> do timing diagrams
[12:15] <nats`> yep I'll redo all the code would be safer and faster
[12:15] <nats`> that's a pain to take those kind of code back
[12:15] <nats`> without timing information etc...
[12:16] <nats`> and this board is driving an AC main line load
[12:16] <Laurenceb> what micro?
[12:16] <nats`> so I prefere to avoid strange stuff like skeeping ac zero cross or other
[12:16] <nats`> a stm32
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[13:00] <Hix> Eugh, stuck with the web interface. Can't connect to ssh on my server and IRC is blocked at work
[13:01] <nats`> Hix put your ssh server on 443 :)
[13:01] <nats`> I do that all the time
[13:01] <nats`> bypassing those crappy firewall rules
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[13:04] <Hix> >nmap -p 443 .......com > rDNS record for 94.x.xx.xx: xxxxx.bb.isp.sky.com > PORT STATE SERVICE 443/tcp filtered https
[13:04] <Hix> seems the ISP or something is blocking all ports somewhere as I've opened 443 on the router :/
[13:05] <adamgreig> sky probably don't allow you to host your own servers
[13:05] <Hix> just switched to Sky fibre and it appears to be a bad move
[13:05] <adamgreig> why would you get internet from a tv company :P
[13:05] <Hix> 38Mbps of unusable pipe
[13:05] <Hix> she who runs things locked the phoneline into sky so I didn't really have much choice
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[13:06] <mfa298> find a cheap vps and use that to run your irc client
[13:08] <mfa298> or if you can ssh out on port 22 see if someone will give you access on a suitable machine
[13:08] <Hix> still doesn't solve the issue of not being able to get to anything remotely though mfa298.
[13:08] <mfa298> if you had your own vps you could run ssh on 443.
[13:09] <mfa298> which hopefully would get through (unless they're doing evil level filtering)
[13:09] <Hix> I've got a perfectly functioning server at home that I can't get to though. It's really annoying. Gone from 1.2 of workable pipe to 38 of not usable. grrr
[13:10] <Hix> are there tools to find out where the filtering is? nmap only shows the port as filtered, wondered if you can drill through to ascertain where the block is happening
[13:10] <fsphil> sky. screwing customers since 1990
[13:11] <fsphil> could try a traceroute
[13:11] <mfa298> unless you get a response back from whatever it doing the filtering you cant easily find out where a port is blocked.
[13:11] <SM5OCI> Some Internet providers are willing to open up their firewall if you ask them.
[13:11] <fsphil> ah but that won't work for filters-by-port
[13:11] <Hix> there is possible an option to change routers but they use MER so i need to spoof the MAC address, even then it might not get past the blockage depending on where it is
[13:12] <mfa298> although traceroute and then trying to connect to the relevant port with a short ttl could work.
[13:12] <adamgreig> phone them up and ask
[13:12] <adamgreig> they should at least tell you if they are blocking it
[13:12] <fsphil> yea worth asking
[13:12] <mfa298> although I'm not sure if you can easily do that with a standard tool
[13:12] <adamgreig> but they probs are
[13:12] <SM5OCI> As 99% of their customers do not have a clue and do not care, it is safe to block most ports as a default.
[13:12] <fsphil> my last isp blocked the SMTP ports by default
[13:12] <fsphil> don't think the current one blocked anything
[13:12] <Hix> Spoke to them. "We don't support port forwarding " I told them it's not a support request it is being blocked...
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[13:16] <Hix> so I've got a tracert output do i then try to nmap port 22 on each hop IP?
[13:16] <fsphil> the traceroute won't help
[13:17] <mfa298> I wonder if you can specify a ttl for nmap
[13:17] <fsphil> tracetcp maybe?
[13:17] <mfa298> might also be able to do something with nc
[13:17] <Hix> They have said they have elevated it to a department but they will not be getting back to me until Thurs, then it'll probably be "we don't support"
[13:18] <mfa298> have you checked that where you're working doesn't block outgoing port 22
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[13:19] <Hix> I get the same on 443 though
[13:21] <mfa298> did you setup the same forwarding rules on the new router as you had on the old (including the external 443 -> server 22)
[13:21] <mfa298> other useful test might be to see if someone else can connect to either port
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[13:22] <Hix> how do you pm from web interface?
[13:22] <mfa298> looks like nmap can specify a ttl but the output isn't that useful (doesn't tell you that the timeout expired)
[13:23] <mfa298> you should be able to do "/msg person message"
[13:23] <DL7AD> good afternoon
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[13:29] <eroomde> why has 'Best Regards' become the default business-email salutation
[13:29] <eroomde> it's horrible
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[13:31] <kokey> you should rather say Lots of Love
[13:31] <kokey> or LOL in short
[13:32] <eroomde> yes that would be nicer
[13:32] <mfa298> start using 73s instead
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[13:32] <kokey> Kind Regards seems to be popular around here
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> What one do you prefer? Perhaps personalised. 'Sent with no expectation of you actually doing anything'
[13:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> i just write, "Med vänliga hälsningar"
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[13:34] Nick change: Steffanx -> Steffan-
[13:35] <mfa298> I think Best Regards/ Kind Regards/ Regards has become the default if you're not sure whether to use yours sincerly, yours faithfully or something else.
[13:35] <Hix> aren't sincerely and faithfully only to be used when adressing someone as Dear...
[13:37] <nats`> mfa298 I'm wondering if it's not partially due to the chinese english
[13:37] <eroomde> it's a mix of kind regards and best wishes
[13:37] <eroomde> best regards doesn't really mean anything
[13:37] <nats`> they usually use really personnal sentence
[13:37] <eroomde> it's a product of the same people that say 'utilize' when they just mean 'use'
[13:37] <nats`> plus for non english native like me it's easier to use
[13:37] <Hix> kist regishes
[13:38] <eroomde> or 'prior to / subsequenent too' when if they're going to be latin they should say 'prior to / posterior to' but if they're going to not be stupid the should say 'before / after'
[13:38] <Hix> bind wigards
[13:39] <eroomde> blah blah orwell essays, david foster wallace, new gingrich
[13:39] <eroomde> newt*
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[14:17] <DL7AD> does anyone know if b-30 is recovered?
[14:18] <UpuWork> apparently its in the air again
[14:18] <UpuWork> no idea where
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[14:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[14:24] <craag> Good day OZ1SKY_Brian
[14:24] <craag> I hear B-30 disappeared overnight?
[14:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OZ9AEH was out trying to take B-30 down, and when he got it loose from the tree, it lifted up again. No signal heard :-(
[14:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> phonecall brb
[14:25] <craag> haha wow
[14:26] <craag> Did you see the payload still attached?
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[14:30] Action: DL1SGP1 adds a rifle/handgun to the essential B-Recovery checklist
[14:31] <gonzo_> I've already sujjested a 12bore)
[14:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Im waiting for a new call from oz9aeh, i cant call him back atm
[14:32] <gonzo_> could this be the first hab to have multiple recoveries ion a sungle flight
[14:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i think 9aeh is packing his fishing pole and stuff, thats why i cant ring him up
[14:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gonzo_ :-)
[14:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> talked to 9aeh, he didnt notis if there where anything under it, when it took off, but he said there still was a line in the tree. He tryed to follow the ballon in the car and listen on the radio, but didnt heard anything. He is now turning back to the farm again, and talking another look in the tree and listen on the radio. Im not hearing it nor is oz5agj. So might still be in the tree and not transmitting. We´ll see when he gets there.
[14:39] <UpuWork> tell him to shoot it down immediately :)
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[14:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork 9aeh fishes, he dont hunt :-)
[14:40] <UpuWork> if the solar cells weren't pointing up the battery may have gone flat , should charge enough before sunset to get a few packets off
[14:40] <UpuWork> lol
[14:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> The old lady at the farm i talked to on the phone was abit confused about all of this :-)
[14:41] <fsphil> I bet!
[14:45] <MobileNathan> Lol
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[14:53] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[14:55] <eroomde> B30s altitude vs time plot is an almost texbook unstable system
[14:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 9aeh could not see anything in the tree nor did he hear anything on the radio. But when he arived at first, he hard it. So what happend we might never know
[14:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> It headed due east, when it took off
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[14:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 9aeh is heading home now, nothing more he can do
[14:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> brb
[14:58] <fsphil> callsigns are very impersonal
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[15:00] <DL1SGP1> I the old lady on the farm now is sitting by the window with a good bottle of Aarlborg and waiting for the mysterious things to come
[15:01] <DL1SGP1> *I think
[15:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[15:02] <fsphil> an evil smile as she glances at the remains of B-30 sitting on her kitchen table
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[15:03] <eroomde> the danes hate to see it leave
[15:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> either the transmitter is broken/out of batt or the antenna got pulled off when it took off.
[15:03] <fsphil> bit worried that a program cleaning up my hard drive has now gotten to 105%
[15:04] <gonzo_> it's started cleening the desk as well?
[15:04] <fsphil> I wish
[15:04] <DL1SGP1> I hope that is on a notebook fsphil you could carry it to each room
[15:05] <fsphil> 111%
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[15:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil 9aeh name is Per, but he goes by the callsign on the tracking page, thats why i used the call :-)
[15:05] <fsphil> ah
[15:07] <fsphil> phew, stopped
[15:07] <fsphil> lets hope there's a filesystem left
[15:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> are there any tags or info on B-30 ?
[15:08] LeoBodnar (569aa72f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.154.167.47) joined #highaltitude.
[15:08] <DL7AD> good afternoon LeoBodnar
[15:09] <LeoBodnar> hi
[15:09] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if B-30 still has any solar panels left - they are really fragile
[15:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Leo, we might never know :(
[15:11] <LeoBodnar> hehe living in hope
[15:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im writing a storey about the chace, will post it soon on ukhas bb
[15:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> easyer than to write the same thing to 10 people here :-)
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> If there is even one out of four panels left it should be able to transmit something during the daytime
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> maybe tomorrow
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> mad adventure
[15:13] <DL1SGP1> at least we know that it still had lift
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[15:22] <fsphil> weather seems to be the main problem
[15:28] <gonzo_> did it still have the payload attached?
[15:28] <gonzo_> (that was ajoke btw)
[15:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gonzo_ we are not 100% sure, Per didnt notis it when the ballon took off, and didnt find anything in the tree after
[15:30] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: just write "*: bla bla"
[15:30] <Reb-SM3ULC> ;)
[15:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> :)
[15:31] <gonzo_> ah......
[15:32] <sa6bss> Il keep the radio on if its comming this way tomorow
[15:34] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[15:34] <sa6bss> it looks like its going to be sunny here tomorow :)
[15:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> sa6bss: i thoguht the default setting was "off" during november..
[15:37] <ve6ts> weather is a problem here, i cannot get a nice enough day to launch :)
[15:37] <ve6ts> fingers crossed for the weeekend
[15:39] <DL1SGP1> this time with gps ve6ts?
[15:39] <ve6ts> not yet, i want to do 2 flights before my GPS flight
[15:39] <qyx_> LeoBodnar: four panels?
[15:39] <DL1SGP1> ok
[15:39] <qyx_> ah, 1 of 4, ok
[15:39] <ve6ts> i wanna do a HF float flight and a float 433mhz flight
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[15:41] <ve6ts> i have some 100g latex balloons on their way
[15:41] <ve6ts> i only have the large latex left (1200, 600, 2000g)
[15:41] <ve6ts> too big for a micro
[15:42] <ve6ts> probably no "macro" balloon launches until the summer, not sure i want to snowshoe into the landing location
[15:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar watching Pers pictures, how long is the line?
[15:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> where is a godo place to upload the pictures in a rar file?
[15:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> good
[15:45] <craag> I would upload them all to imgur
[15:45] <craag> http://imgur.com/ You don't need to register
[15:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i see it need a login
[15:46] <craag> Nope
[15:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[15:46] <craag> Just click the 'Computer' button and select all the pics
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[15:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok got it, thanks
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[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LeoBodnar, Interesting effect with the Oscillations relating to its path http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-30_20131116/index.php?ind=10
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[15:50] <sa6bss> Reb-SM3ULC: hmhm Dont get ?? i thoguht the default setting was "off" during november..
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[15:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar you there?
[15:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> sa6bss: the sun
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[16:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> upu?
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[16:01] <UpuWork> here Brian
[16:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> wonder if im blocked on the ukhas mail list, my post dont seem to get to it
[16:02] <UpuWork> its moderated
[16:02] <UpuWork> I've posted it
[16:02] <DL1SGP1> :)
[16:02] <DL1SGP1> thanks Brian&Upu
[16:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh ok, thanks :-)
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[16:03] <UpuWork> nps
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[16:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok gotta run, back later to night. cheers
[16:06] <craag> Yeah those solar panels are very very bust
[16:06] <qyx_> the tracker can be seen on the second picture
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[16:07] <craag> qyx_: Where in the second pic?
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[16:08] <qyx_> open it in full res, go to the highest part of the baloon
[16:08] <qyx_> you can see a sharp shape here
[16:09] <qyx_> and two very thin lines going up
[16:09] <craag> AH yes
[16:09] <qyx_> they they are crossed
[16:09] <craag> Yeah I don't see any rectangular solar panels
[16:10] <qyx_> i assume they are there on the sides
[16:10] <qyx_> they are too sharp to be leaves
[16:10] <craag> Yep that's what I thought
[16:10] <craag> so very broken
[16:10] <qyx_> actually you can see two things with sharp edges and the tracker with yellow cap on top
[16:11] <craag> So it's got caught by the radials, buffeted by the wind and cracked the solar panels
[16:11] <craag> Very little chance of any charge getting into the batteries now.
[16:12] <sa6bss> Reb-SM3ULC got it :)
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[16:13] <qyx_> ah its zoomed on last two pics
[16:13] <qyx_> it's
[16:13] <craag> But yes, shooting the balloon would have been the only way to get that down :P
[16:14] <craag> Interesting to know it was moisture/temp effects that brought it down, not a burst :)
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[16:14] <SpeedEvil> Combat quadcopter.
[16:14] <craag> SpeedEvil: Or that :P
[16:14] <craag> Just any unshielded-rotors quadcopter would have done!
[16:15] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[16:16] Nick change: Maxell_ -> Maxell
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[16:17] <eroomde> A three year old ambition is about to be achieved
[16:17] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[16:17] <eroomde> A sign that I have made it in life
[16:17] <eroomde> I'm about to buy
[16:17] <eroomde> (drumroll)
[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE_> A house
[16:17] <eroomde> A Forklift
[16:17] <eroomde> !!
[16:17] <fsphil> a pony
[16:17] <fsphil> oh
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[16:18] <eroomde> i.e. an ambition I had when i was 3 rather than one I have had for the last 3 years
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Now you need a license to drive it ...
[16:18] <eroomde> yes, that'll come
[16:18] <f5vnf> or fly it
[16:18] <fsphil> they don't let me on our forklifts
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[16:18] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[16:20] <eroomde> I really can't wwait
[16:21] <adamgreig> be sure to post pics
[16:21] <eroomde> I've wanted one of these for ages, much more fun than programming
[16:21] <eroomde> I will post pics
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: your own forklift, or one you get to drive at work?
[16:21] <eroomde> I want to name it Ical
[16:21] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: both are the same thing
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Can you take it home?
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[16:22] <eroomde> suspect it's not road legal
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPpwLCvPAME
[16:24] <eroomde> Ical because it's likely to be from these people
[16:24] <eroomde> http://plant.autotrader.co.uk/used-plant-machinery/hyster/forklifts
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[16:24] <nats`> eroomde could you lend it to me for a few day neighboor problem to (dis)solve.
[16:25] <fsphil> mmmm
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[16:26] Action: SpeedEvil looks at his barrel of sulphuric acid.
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[16:27] <fsphil> remember to wear goggles
[16:27] <gonzo_> needs some nirtic acid to get rid of them in a more fun way
[16:27] <gonzo_> (and rubber gloved when you pull theb plug out!)
[16:28] Nick change: zyp_ -> zyp
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nitric-Acid-69-5-Litre-5L-/140573783968?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item20bad9b7a0
[16:29] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if the carriers know what they're carrying
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[16:30] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[16:33] <nats`> SpeedEvil better to know
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes - from the carriers POV
[16:33] <nats`> even from the legal POV
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[16:34] <nats`> normally that shouldn't pass the custom in France for example
[16:34] <nats`> I tried to source nitric acid and unless using the lab of my father that was a no
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> You can't even legally ship non-new NiMH batteries.
[16:34] <nats`> why ?
[16:34] <nats`> is there a danger with NiMh ?
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> ^via royal mail
[16:35] <nats`> I could understand for li batteries
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Prohibited-Goods
[16:37] <nats`> oO
[16:37] <nats`> I'm puzzled
[16:37] <Reb-SM3ULC> url to pics about b30?
[16:38] <nats`> A used liion battery like the one in my old samsung phone would be more dangerous event in the phone
[16:38] <nats`> it inflated to a point I couldn't close the phone back
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[16:38] <sa6bss> ulc: Reb-SM3ULC>
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[16:39] <sa6bss> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> nats`: The rules are the rules.
[16:39] <eroomde> the mailing list is the place to be
[16:39] <eroomde> to see and be seen
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> They don't need to make sense
[16:39] <gonzo_> they say nimh are ok if new and in original packaging. New to who, and who's packaging
[16:39] <eroomde> to flame and be flamed
[16:39] <nats`> SpeedEvil yes but a rule is better when logic
[16:40] <nats`> Christmas crackers
[16:40] <nats`>
[16:40] <nats`> Crackers can only be sent in their complete made-up form and in their original retail packaging.
[16:41] <nats`> what's a crackers
[16:41] <nats`> is a biscuit ?
[16:41] <adamgreig> small pyrotechnic device
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> It is a small handheld explosive device traditional at parties.
[16:41] <gonzo_> "Gases that are compressed" hmmm, so no air at 14psi
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[16:42] <nats`> ohh oky :)
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[16:42] <gonzo_> "animal remains" no leather then
[16:44] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza
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[16:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> sa6bss: ah, i only have digest so missed that one
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[16:55] <arko> Yoyo
[16:56] <cm13g09> Royal Muddle's prohibited goods is quote prohibitive!
[16:56] <arko> OZ1SKY_Brian: any luck?
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[17:22] <SpeedEvil> cm13g09: It's basically because it's imported the other list wholesale
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> But because some of the stuff is transported by air - it's hard to say that the air regulations should not apply.
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[17:30] <arko> OZ1SKY_Brian: LeoBodnar: wow! Just saw the email
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[17:31] <arko> Those solar panels look really chipped
[17:33] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: yeah
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[17:33] <cm13g09> I suppose....
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Do chipped solar panels produce more power and increase your insurance costs?
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[17:36] <Ugi> Hi guys - can I take your advice on antenna stuff? I'm having some roof work done so that seemed a good time to put up a 70cm antenna.
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[17:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Good idea
[17:37] <Ugi> The antenna won't go up for a couple of months but they might need to lay the coax soon - what would you suggest.
[17:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> How long is the run
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> Put a nice big hole in the roof so you can easily get up there, and fix an antenna at your leisure.
[17:37] <Ugi> and is an X-50 the standard fairly unobtrusive 70cm antenna?
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[17:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Pretty good, very similar to the one I use
[17:38] <Ugi> run will probably be 5m across the roof before it enters the room, at which point I can add a HABamp etc if needed.
[17:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> No problem then
[17:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> My WX1 (or maybe 2) has been up without needing attention for something like 20 odd years!
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[17:41] <Ugi> Google for WX1 does not reveal anything useful, at least to me.
[17:42] <Ugi> I assume RG58 is too thin for a roof-top run.
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[17:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its very similar to the X-50 you will find references to it, just googled it myself https://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=PYB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=wx1+colinear+aerial&spell=1&sa=X&ei=sqKLUtWmINSg7AbkkIEY&ved=0CCoQBSgA&biw=1250&bih=1053
[17:42] <Ugi> Would I use RG213
[17:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that would be an ideal cable
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[17:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> especially as uoi only need a few meters of cable
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> I would also consider running power up there, perhaps and data cable - in case you get further ideas.
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> For example, a housetop USB camera.
[17:43] <Ugi> Perfect. Then I can lay that down & worry about the specifics of the antenna later
[17:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> That's all ways worthwhile provided that is where you would add additonal aerials of course
[17:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Here are mine http://www.g8dhe.com/amateurradio/g8dhe/beams.jpg
[17:44] <Ugi> we currently have a massive tin lid on our house so it's not going up for a while!
[17:44] <Ugi> USB telescope for visual HAB tracking!
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> Ugi: :)
[17:45] <Ugi> Geoff-G8DHE: Is that your mast? Impressive!
[17:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its just been down in the last week, no Aerialcam any longer, the Autofocus has packed in and the box it was in has clouded over
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[17:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> so I'll repair over Winter and put it back up later next year!
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[17:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> remeber that you will need to fit a plug at the aerial end, best to put it on NOW before trying to terminate on the roof ..
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> On a general point.
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> WAter sealing of boxes can be really tricky.
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> If you however add a little insulation and a heater, so that they will stay 10C over ambient, condensation generally can't occur
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> Do of course add appropriate vermin and insect sealing
[17:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've always worked on priciple of seal the co-ax and let any boxes drain
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[17:53] <Ugi> OK - not put an antenna up before and the connection may have to be done by the builders. If I add the correct plug, will it be just a case of plugging in the cable to the antenna or is there a complex sealing process on a basic colinear?
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[17:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> NO do not let builders do the plugs up! You need to connect and then seal with rubber self amalgamting tape
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[17:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> that ensures waterproof, almost gaurnatee that if you leave it to the builder they will cross a thread and you will have problems!
[17:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tape like this http://www.screwfix.com/p/self-amalgamating-rubber-tape-black-19mm-x-10m/87717
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[17:55] <Ugi> OK. That, should be managable. I should have access to the roof end of the cable while the scaffolding is up
[17:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> it welds itself together after a few minutes into a continous bond of rubber
[17:56] <Ugi> Yes, I have self-amalgamating tape.
[17:56] <Ugi> It's very userful
[17:56] <Ugi> useful
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[17:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> You will need to solder plug on so you need to check which type of plug is used on X50 aerial
[17:59] <Ugi> Sounds like I should get that fairly soon then, so I can get the right plug added.
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[17:59] <Ugi> I have a gas soldering iron but soldering on the roof-ridge is not my idea of fun!
[17:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite! So do that before running cable up to the roof
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[18:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> It maybe PL259 or N-Type not sure on the X-50
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[18:01] <Crashjuh|QTH> X50 is N-Type
[18:01] <Ugi> The cable will come in under the roof into the loft room we are having built so it can go up on the scaffolding. I just need to make sure it's there before they start to re-build the roof.
[18:02] <Ugi> I can add a connector from the scaffolding in reasonable comfort but I do need to do that before moving to the actual roof!
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[18:02] <Ugi> Sounds like I'm farily safe with an X-50 so I'll get one and a connector to match.
[18:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> It seems to be an N-Type these days, they should be waterproof but I would still seal it within tape .
[18:03] <Ugi> I'll do that, providing I can get access at the right time.
[18:04] <Ugi> The TV areal and support pole are massive! I didn't realise from the ground that the support is 8' long and the width of a scaffolding pole!
[18:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Other tip is try to use all Stainlss Steel fixings for the clamps etc. it may seem expensive but it pays in the long run
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[18:05] <Ugi> The X-50 will have to attach before the pole goes back on the chimney, which the builder will do.
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[18:06] <Ugi> I assume that I can just add the X-50 to the pole with the TV antenna on.
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[18:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Depends on where tv aerial is mounted, you will need at least 0.5m of pole above the tv aerial to clamp the x-50 to
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[18:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> try to get tv aerial mounted on an offset stub mast so it is clear of the pole and cable, most aerial erectors would put the TV aerial on the top of the mast
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[18:10] <Ugi> OK - I'll have a look but chances are we can move it down a little on the pole - next door's areal is not quite so high and their signal is fine.
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[18:10] <Ugi> so if I drop the TV antenna 0.5m to take the X-50 I can't see that mattering.
[18:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes but the TV aerial won't want the main mast running thru the elements they don't work very well!
[18:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> See cranked masts / stub masts http://www.aerialsandtv.com/polesandbrackets.html#CrankedPoles
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[18:12] <Ugi> Good point. I need to have a look at what we've got ATM
[18:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> then both aerials can go on top of there respective masts
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[18:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK call for tea so AFK
[18:14] <Ugi> Thanks for your help
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[18:22] <sa6bss> B-31 soon on the run :) Nice!
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[18:28] <fsphil> Crashjuh|QTH: the X-50 has a SO239, the X-50N has the N socket
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[18:28] <fsphil> unless they've updated it recently?
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[18:30] <fsphil> no more snow here, raining instead. meh
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[18:30] <mfa298> you could always put an N on the cable and use a N-PL259 adapter if the antenna as a SO239 on it (or try and get a version with an N connector)
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[18:33] <fsphil> I'd avoid adapters if possible
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[18:34] <db_g6gzh_> I'd avoid PL-259 if possible
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[18:35] <mfa298> I'd go with db_g6gzh_ and have all N if possible
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[18:36] <mfa298> definetly dont put a pl259 on the cable and then use an adapter to convert to N that's just doing it all wrong.
[18:36] <db_g6gzh_> looks like Leo doesn't even bother walking to the field these dark nights, just chucks it from the car park
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[18:38] <db_g6gzh_> and, as if by magic, a flight doc appears
[18:38] <DL1SGP1> hehe
[18:38] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[18:38] <DL1SGP> have a safe float dear B-31
[18:38] <db_g6gzh_> not yet quite strong enough for a green
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[18:39] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[18:47] <mattbrejza> b31 decoding in soton
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[18:54] <arko> does Leo use He or H?
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[18:55] <fsphil> aww, this one is heading south
[18:55] <mfa298> I think he's being using He
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[18:56] <fsphil> what's the frequency for B-31?
[18:56] <Maxell> I suppose 434.5 MHz?
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[18:59] <qyx_> waht, B-31? O_o
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[19:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Guys
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[19:02] <fsphil> evenining
[19:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yay, Leo
[19:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Phil
[19:02] <DL1SGP> Hey Steve_G0TDJ prepare a cuppa, something is in the air :D
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[19:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL Felix, I see. But it's not high enough yet and I'm off to my radio club soon.
[19:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> If I can find the signal before I go, I'll leave the kit on
[19:03] <mfa298> take your tracking kit with you and have a live demonstration at the club.
[19:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'd love to but we haev a special guest and I don't want to rain on his parade
[19:04] <DL1SGP> clubmeetings are fun :) will there be a teatime and a raffle?
[19:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh! I hear B-31
[19:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yes, Felix, always Coffee/Tea - No raffle though
[19:05] <DL1SGP> great
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> evening
[19:05] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good evenong Leo
[19:05] <arko> yo!
[19:05] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Arko too
[19:05] <arko> it was cool to see B-30
[19:06] <arko> chipped panels and all
[19:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah, what a flight
[19:06] <DL1SGP> good evening LeoBodnar
[19:06] <arko> im adding a bb-gun to my hab recovery kit
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[19:07] <fsphil> flight termination device
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[19:08] <db_g6gzh_> arko: if you use a flare gun you can find out if it was H or He
[19:08] <arko> haha
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> lol
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[19:10] <db_g6gzh_> B-31 is not so strong and has some fading
[19:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> Nothing here Leo. I've got to go out I'm afraid.
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[19:11] <G8KNN-1> Quite deep fading :-(
[19:11] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good luck - Catch you later Guys.
[19:11] <LeoBodnar> It might get better if it levels off
[19:12] <G8KNN-1> What antenna is it using tonight?
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> It's vertical dipole but the wire might be a bit wavy
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[19:13] <G8KNN-1> Ah OK. That might explain it.
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[19:21] <mclane> B30 recovered?
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[19:22] <Upu> nope
[19:22] <Upu> it took off without its transmitter working
[19:23] <Willdude> Hi Upu, tired soldering resistors today onto a spare board
[19:23] <Willdude> Failed completley
[19:23] <Upu> how come ?
[19:23] <arko> bb-guns are legal in denmark?
[19:23] <Willdude> I ended up pushing it out of the way with the iron, since they're so tiny
[19:23] <Upu> tweezers ?
[19:24] <Willdude> Yup
[19:24] <arko> fine tip iron?
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[19:25] <Willdude> Yeah, maybe I'm just useless at soldering
[19:25] <arko> it takes a lot of practice..
[19:25] Action: SpeedEvil needs to make his new soldering iron.
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[19:27] <Upu> practice Willdude
[19:27] <Upu> Check out my new base GPS Antenna : http://i.imgur.com/kJHwXSk.jpg
[19:28] <Upu> (will be mounted on the roof at some point)
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[19:28] <arko> woah
[19:29] <arko> that seems a little more serious
[19:29] <Upu> its a marine one
[19:29] <arko> nice
[19:30] <arko> just for fun?
[19:30] <Upu> for my NTP Time server
[19:30] <arko> ahh
[19:30] <Upu> you can do a survey over 24 hours and it ascertains your position to with 10cms
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> Upu: Are you worried about global warming leading to salt spray on the roof?
[19:30] <Upu> with the timing module
[19:30] <arko> seems like a long cable
[19:30] <Upu> 10 meters arko
[19:31] <Upu> but its active
[19:31] <arko> yeah, i figured
[19:31] <Upu> well SpeedEvil it was weather proof
[19:31] <arko> thats awesome
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> On a related matter - I noticed that the beagleboard PRUs are quite adequate to recieve high-speed serial from a GPS frontend
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[19:31] <Upu> $25 Arko so not that serious :)
[19:32] <arko> oh
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[19:32] <arko> i always thought they were expensive
[19:32] <arko> http://www.panbo.com/archives/2008/12/gps_antenna_splitting_yes_but_.html
[19:32] <arko> the inside antenna looks crazy
[19:32] Nick change: sa6bss -> SA6BSS
[19:32] <arko> wideband choke-ring antennas
[19:32] <craag> Upu: Any particular reason for needed GPS-synced NTP at your house?
[19:32] <Upu> because I can ?
[19:32] <craag> Or just because you'll never be late? :)
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[19:33] <craag> hehe that as well
[19:33] <Upu> I like playing :)
[19:33] <craag> Hmm might have to convince work we need one :P
[19:33] <arko> i would not be shocked if there has been a had with one of these
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[19:34] <Upu> I want to see if I can do that super accurate GPS with two receivers in raw mode
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[19:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> Upu: i guess 10 cm is with non code-gps but one of thoes wavelength-receivers?
[19:35] <daveake> Are you expecting your house to move then?
[19:35] <craag> The LEA does some cool stuff with PPP
[19:35] <Upu> I could tell you if it did daveake
[19:35] <daveake> :)
[19:35] <arko> lol
[19:35] <Upu> not sure what you mean Reb-SM3ULC ?
[19:35] <Upu> oh
[19:35] <Upu> Sorry
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> IIRC I got 10cm repeatability simply by averaging the output of a garmin GPS-12 over 1 month.
[19:35] <Upu> no thats a timing module
[19:35] <Upu> doing a survey
[19:36] <craag> One of the projects here at Uni dumps raw data from LEA's and does PPP post-processing to get to a couple of cm iirc.D
[19:36] <Upu> as SpeedEvil describes
[19:36] <Upu> thats the one craag
[19:36] <Upu> if you have 2 slightly apart and know the exact location of one
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> The 'right way' is considerably more accurate and faster
[19:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> Upu: sri, messed the languange.. i mean these ones... http://www.trimble.com/gps_tutorial/sub_phases.aspx
[19:36] <Upu> you can get extremely accurate
[19:36] <Upu> yeah like that I think
[19:37] <Upu> I don't understand it fully its on my list
[19:37] <Upu> use them for mapping
[19:37] <craag> Upu: http://wiki.glacsweb.info/index.php?title=DGPS_processing#PPP_processing
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[19:37] <craag> Those are the guys.
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[19:38] <Upu> yep thats it
[19:38] <craag> Hmm 'this wiki is for internal information exchange'
[19:38] <craag> But... it's on google :|
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[20:00] <DL7AD> evening
[20:01] <DL7AD> B-31 flying
[20:01] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes i see
[20:01] <Herman-PB0AHX> goeden avond DL7AD
[20:01] <DL7AD> guten abend ;) Herman-PB0AHX
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[20:02] <daveake> I'll know that time travel is possible when I see Leo *pre*announce a flight :)
[20:03] <craag> Yay first B-* decode since about B-7
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[20:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Mine's coming up as well red last time but .....
[20:04] <craag> I'm further up the hill from last year, but the peak is closer, so need >> green circle to get anything to the north :(
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[20:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh and its coming our way!
[20:05] <nats`> Geoff-G8DHE
[20:06] <nats`> for 5 meter I suggest RG213 I have some attenuation graph with a vna for the one I use
[20:06] <nats`> a radiospare reference
[20:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> nats
[20:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Green!
[20:07] <nats`> http://imgur.com/a/38GvE
[20:07] <nats`> worst and best case mesure
[20:07] <nats`> I helped a friend to mount an antenna with same cable we took thermo adhesive
[20:07] <nats`> and run the DC to power a LNA on the end of the antenna
[20:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Indeed looks what I would expect
[20:07] <nats`> the lna itself is in an IP67 box
[20:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes
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[20:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> I wouldn't bother the loss is too low to worry about the extra noise reduction would be quite small
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[20:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> for 70cms and 2m, if he wa going a LOT higher then yes
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[20:09] <nats`> he used that mainly because there is no balun on the end of the antenna
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[20:09] <mclane> ping mfa298
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[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right would be better to fit the balun, but for aX-50 he won'y have the problem
[20:11] <nats`> I think we will modify the setup later :)
[20:12] <nats`> can someone tracking B31 confirm the frequency ?
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[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Even for my runs where I have more like 30m of co-ax it wasn't worth the effort even ffor 23cms, it was worthwhile for 13cms but I ended up paying for better co-ax :-) It was simpler than arranging for switching for the Tx!
[20:13] <nats`> ahhh you want to do tx :)
[20:13] <nats`> my bad
[20:13] <nats`> I was thinking rxing only :)
[20:13] <nats`> I'm not a ham so tx is like the most beautiful boobs in the world... don't touch :D
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[20:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
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[20:18] <LeoBodnar> nats`: it's very tempting
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[20:19] <nats`> don't try to tease me :p
[20:19] <nats`> I can't resist boobs :p
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> :D
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Did you see this http://www.aerialsandtv.com/polesandbrackets.html#CrankedPoles image and note the directions of travel at peak and trough ?
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oops wrong link
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-30_20131116/Oscillations.jpg
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[20:23] <LeoBodnar> Yea, I have noticed that. It was meandering as the wind seem to be veering with altitude quite predictaby
[20:24] <nats`> LeoBodnar what was the last freq you got for B31 ?
[20:24] <nats`> I try to anticipate the drifting :D
[20:24] Nick change: Crashjuh|QTH -> Crashjuh
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[20:27] <LeoBodnar> B-31 at the moment is on 434.500 MHz modem centre 1600 Hz
[20:27] <nats`> oky
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[20:29] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: at some point off the coast change of wind direction with altitude was almost 90 degrees
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[20:29] Nick change: Crashjuh -> Crashjuh|Away
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[20:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes I see, I'm on the collinear at the moment but might change to a beam if required.
[20:30] <craag> Hmm sounds like my FCD is a bit off
[20:30] <craag> I have it 434.502 at 1300hz
[20:31] Action: craag uses B-31 as frequency calibration source..
[20:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> im 434500170 at 1050hz
[20:32] <mfa298_> pong mclane
[20:32] Nick change: mfa298 -> mfa298_remote
[20:32] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
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[20:33] <LeoBodnar> Sometimes I use rubidium 10MHz standard with 1:100 divider to provide stable 100kHz square wave and pick up its harmonic on 434,500 and set up HAB tracker to be 1500-1600Hz above that
[20:34] <craag> That's just showing off :P
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> It's easy to see on the dl-fldigi waterfall
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[20:34] <craag> Yep true!
[20:34] <craag> Some day I'll have a receiver with an LO that precise...
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> If you know your offset it is just as good :D My receivers are off too
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> I have made a portable calibrator, let me see if I can fetch some pics
[20:35] <mclane> mfa298: my question became obsolete sorry for bothering
[20:36] Nick change: Crashjuh|Away -> Crashjuh|QTH
[20:38] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/calibrator.jpg
[20:39] <mattbrejza> more jealous of hte scope tbh :P
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[20:40] <nats`> LeoBodnaryour counter do phase angle measure ?
[20:40] <mfa298> yay, I can hear B-31 with a RG174 sleve dipole poked through a gap in the double glazing surround. I've even got the pips (that's better than I've had for a while)
[20:40] <nats`> I'm seeking for one
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> I have used one of the LithiumThyonil (sp?) batteries seen on the desk - it should give about 300 hours continuous use
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[20:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> So it's just a 10MHz VCTCXO with an LDO, 1:100 TTL decade counter and a pot
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[20:42] <mfa298> oooh, hadn't realised B-31 was that far south already.
[20:43] <mfa298> no wonder I can hear it so clearly - could probably use that wet piece of string.
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> So I align portable calibrator to 10MHz reference and it's good for daily use
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[20:44] <LeoBodnar> VCTCXO I have used: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=i-ddd7-00001003&sku=1100747
[20:45] <nats`> uhhh time to mount the setup
[20:45] <nats`> the balloon is speedy gonzales
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[20:56] <nats`> the balloon is going fast no ?
[20:57] <DL1SGP2> well faster than B-30 :)
[20:57] Nick change: DL1SGP2 -> DL1SGP
[20:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> 28.4 m/s... fast one..
[20:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> DL1SGP: but not in our direction.. :/
[20:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar the close up pictures, is that the tracker?
[20:57] <DL1SGP> sighs it won't be coming here
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> Has B-31 fading got any less?
[20:57] <DL1SGP> yeah Reb-SM3ULC :)
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[20:58] <LeoBodnar> OZ1SKY_Brian: yes
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> it is you can even see yellow Kapton tape
[20:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok thanks, we where not 100% sure
[20:58] <G8KNN-1> LeoBodnar: Yes, I think so, but the signal is ~10dB down on B-30
[20:58] <DL1SGP> OZ1SKY_Brian: thanks for the pictures and the efforts to rescue the B-30 payload :)
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[20:59] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-28/Pages/3.html is the same payload
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> Danes did a great job :D
[20:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP we had fun, even though the outcome could have been better
[20:59] <DL1SGP> Maybe we have some luck around xmas OZ1SKY_Brian :)
[21:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar the ballon seems tuff, since it can survive a night in a tree and then just take off, after beeing poked more than once by a stick
[21:01] <DL1SGP> yeah, notably the balloon should be shot several times before trying to rescue it :D
[21:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP that depends if Leo would have liked to relaunch it
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> Yes I am surprised as well. However if there is a hole in it it would still have buoyancy and go up but will pressurise, lose Helium and descend for good
[21:02] <DL1SGP> yes OZ1SKY_Brian :)
[21:03] <DL1SGP> we need an automated straw guidance mechanism to release He from the balloon in the process of payload recovery
[21:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar lets get an answer to that, bring back or relaunch?
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> I consider them the property of the rescuer and it's up to him/her what to do with them :D
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[21:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar ah ok, good to know in case
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> Brian, It was completely your call :D
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[21:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Well we relaunched with no transmitter, so much for my call. :)
[21:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: stealth-enhanced..
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> Observing radio silence
[21:05] <nats`> station online
[21:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> But i think you can add it to "First foreign landing" table
[21:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im not aware of any other
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> It would be interesting to map UK landing sites abroad
[21:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> if we dont count waterlanding
[21:07] <DL1SGP> Netherlands, B-28 ... was recovered
[21:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> nice
[21:08] <DL1SGP> but first landing in Denmark :D
[21:08] <DL1SGP> I think
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> nats`: looks like it's veering too much West for you to hear it :/
[21:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> One of the SP´s landed in the water in DK
[21:09] <DL1SGP> No worries nats` we share mishap if it goes too far west for you :)
[21:09] <DL1SGP> yea SP3OSJ landed one in the waters around Bornholm
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[21:10] <nats`> LeoBodnar I'll try anyway :)
[21:10] <nats`> the setup is here :)
[21:10] <nats`> and I don't sleep before 3am
[21:10] <nats`> it's 10PM now
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[21:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP also one in north west DK
[21:11] <DL1SGP> ah I do not remember that one... oh wait I think I do
[21:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> just cant remember what call
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[21:14] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD can you run your magic das automatische maschinen to inform French trackers in the way of B-31?
[21:14] <nats`> already run
[21:15] <nats`> I got the mail 1 hour ago :)
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> ah, cool
[21:15] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: already did
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> cool is it automatic now?
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> have you merged it with arko yet?
[21:15] <craag> LeoBodnar: Is aprs M0XER-10 on this one?
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> should be
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[21:16] <craag> ok cheers
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> Just came through http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FM0XER-10&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[21:16] <craag> There we go
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[21:17] <Laurenceb__> arg too cold
[21:17] <moj_> Hello, im just going to jump in with some potentially stupid questions and firstly ask....are there any devices (small portable maybe added to arduino/pi) out there capable of sending medium resolution pictures over an area of 200/500m
[21:17] Action: Laurenceb__ has been out watching some drama
[21:18] <craag> You've got France blacklisted for APRS right?
[21:18] <Laurenceb__> mad petrol bomb/slasher guy in my neighbourhood
[21:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar are there any detailed page about your trackers, dont mean code or print layout, but a walkthrough the functions?
[21:18] <Laurenceb__> he just got caught after an epic helicopter chase
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> Not yet, but they are very simple really
[21:18] <Laurenceb__> pity i didnt have a camera on me
[21:18] <moj_> the cusf lynx is interesting be but seems to be under development
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> yes craag
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: insane
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> Ninja?
[21:20] <mfa298> moj_: there's various good tutorials on the ukhas wiki (see the topic)
[21:20] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: someone a few streets away got slashed :-/
[21:20] <Laurenceb__> 2 cars on fire
[21:20] <craag> moj_: For just 500 metres, an xbee might be suitable.
[21:20] <mfa298> although if it's low altitude / short range you could probably use something like wifi or 3g
[21:21] <craag> 868MHz xbees are rather good.
[21:21] <Laurenceb__> i climbed up the hill behind my house in time too see them chase him down in a chopper
[21:21] <Laurenceb__> looked like some movie :P
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[21:22] <Laurenceb__> the lucky thing: i had been considering chopping some wood in my garden with a machete
[21:23] <Laurenceb__> if i'd done that id currently be being repeatedly tasered
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[21:24] <moj_> what resolution would the picture be, or how many pics?
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> conclusion: chop something else in your garden with a machete, not wood
[21:25] <moj_> or any 3g module
[21:26] <mfa298> moj_: that's potentially going to depend on what you're trying to do and how.
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[21:28] <mfa298> it may help if you described what you're trying to acheive
[21:28] <moj_> on one side i want to have a package (control--camera---send) and 200-500mtres away i want to view this picture. i am not looking to build but buy or fund
[21:28] <nats`> Laurenceb oO
[21:28] <nats`> we have a mad gun shooter in paris for 4 days now
[21:29] <nats`> they are seeking for him everywhere
[21:29] <nats`> world is crazy
[21:29] <mfa298> in what sort of environment ?
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[21:29] <moj_> jungle
[21:29] <moj_> literally
[21:29] <craag> moj_: So no GSM coverage?
[21:29] <mfa298> 3G might not be the best solution then (unless there's good mobile phone coverage)
[21:30] <craag> In which case you're going to have to build :/
[21:30] <mfa298> might be able to do it with a pi and wifi (depending on where this jungle is you might be able to use more power than the UK allows as well which could help)
[21:31] <craag> mfa298: 500m is a big ask of wifi, even in open space. Jungle is going to be rather attenuating!
[21:31] <moj_> i thought wifi would be a problem with trees
[21:31] <craag> Yeah me too
[21:31] <moj_> what if i have a pi+3g tx/rx and build my own network
[21:32] <craag> Is there 3g coverage?
[21:32] <moj_> no
[21:32] <craag> oh build your own network!
[21:32] <craag> haha
[21:32] <craag> no
[21:32] <mfa298> might get there with wifi if it's somewhere that allowed higher powers (1W+) and possibly 5GHz rather than 2.4GHz
[21:33] <craag> If you can get LOS above the trees it might work.
[21:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Someone asked earlyer what antenna i used for direction finding, here is the simple answer http://imgur.com/W8VokVs
[21:33] <craag> But that means putting masts on the top of trees
[21:33] <mfa298> otherwise craag's original suggestion of XBee might be the easiest - although you might need to find a suitable version for whereever this is being setup.
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[21:35] <moj_> sorry when i said 3g i meant 868mhz/900 being built
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[21:35] <moj_> could i build a xbee network of 900mhz devices+pi
[21:35] <mfa298> building your own 3G network probably isn't that feasible.
[21:36] <craag> 868MHz is completely different to 900MHz GSM
[21:36] <craag> 868MHz is normally done device <=> device
[21:36] <mfa298> I'd have thought you can interface xbee with a pi fairly easily. (although check that the xbee frequencies you get are legal to use in whichever country the jungle is in)
[21:36] <moj_> i see, in advance apologies for the stupid questions
[21:37] <mfa298> the frequencies you can use license exempt in the UK/Europe are different to the americas and different again to places like Austrlia.
[21:38] <moj_> i understand that was another thing i was working on, but before i do that i wanted to just check up on what could be done in engineering/telecom terms
[21:38] <moj_> assuming all legal barriers were open
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: are you shaken but not stirred?
[21:39] <mfa298> potentially depends on how much money / effort you want to throw at something.
[21:40] <mfa298> If you had enough money and engineering available you could probably manage live HD video over larger distances (but you might need to be more on a BT / BBC scale for that)
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[21:41] <Laurenceb__> heh LeoBodnar
[21:41] <moj_> you mean streaming over satellite or something else?
[21:41] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: weather looks a bit nicer for B-31
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[21:41] <LeoBodnar> I hope you are OK
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> I have added 2L of isobutane into the main envelope trying to see if it somehow reflects on ascent profile and it obviously did not
[21:41] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> n-butane next time and pouch after that
[21:42] <craag> moj_: satellite for 500metres is a bit overkill
[21:42] <craag> More like custom RF link with masts and big antennas at each end.
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> I did not want it to dangle around 0C as it would be somewhere at 1000m alt
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[21:42] <moj_> oh no, i want it portable.
[21:43] <craag> moj_: If you can put up masts above the tree canopy and get line-of-sight, then wifi might be an option.
[21:43] <craag> :/
[21:43] <LeoBodnar> isobutane seems good for winter and n-butane for summer experiments
[21:43] <craag> moj_: In which case XBee Pros I think are your best bet, but check the legality of the frequencies in the country.
[21:43] <moj_> ok
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[21:44] <craag> Sounds like an interesting project moj_, let me know how it goes!
[21:44] <moj_> thanks
[21:45] <mfa298> I think if you looked at the wifi route you probably want 5Ghz rather than 2.4GHz.
[21:45] <moj_> this webchat seems to hold alot of expertise and experience, something i need for what i am doing, thanks for the help guys
[21:45] <mfa298> and XBee you're probably looking at the 868/900 MHz ranges rather than 2.4GHz modules
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[21:46] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[21:46] <moj_> an 868mhz xbee + rasberry pi + camera ==> would that send pictures, how many do you think, resolution
[21:46] <moj_> could that stream?
[21:47] <craag> moj_: Not a clue, depends completely on conditions
[21:47] <mfa298> looking at some of those XBee's some claim >200kbps for ranges of 1km or more shame they probably don't tally up with ir2030 and airborne use.
[21:47] <craag> You need to try it out, then see what you can achieve :)
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[21:48] <moj_> i see
[21:48] <qyx_> mfa298: theres a duty cycle constrain on 868MHz
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> However ascent rate on foil balloons is not very much dependent on lift. 1g lift produces 0.6m/s and 5g - 1.1m/s
[21:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> moj_: remember, if you have small antenna on the portable you still can have big on the other end.. like 24 db parabolic or seomthing
[21:49] <qyx_> i think this band is not very usable in eu
[21:49] <qyx_> or maybe i am wrong
[21:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is Xbee likely to have sufficent bandwidth for omages in a sensible time ?
[21:49] <mfa298> moj_: if you got one claiming 250kbps that would transfer around 25KB of data per second (assuming it actually managed that rate), from there you can work out time vs image size.
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[21:49] <craag> qyx_: It's higher power than most bands though, so you get more range at the cost of data rate.
[21:49] <qyx_> 868MHz xbee is 25kbps max only if i remember correctly
[21:50] <mfa298> qyx_: hence the comment about it being a shame it probably doesn't match up with whats allowed in ir2030 (the UK rules of freq/power/duty cycle/ airborne use)
[21:50] <qyx_> ah
[21:50] <qyx_> anyway wifi on 5.5-5.7GHz band is quite usable
[21:50] <qyx_> we had links of 10+ mbps spanning across 5km and more
[21:51] <craag> qyx_: Not through a jungle though :/
[21:51] <qyx_> within ETSI limits
[21:51] <qyx_> wut, i missed some important point apparently
[21:51] <mfa298> that could be a solution for moj_ stick an AP on a tethered balloon and use that as a relay point.
[21:51] <craag> qyx_: Through a jungle, and camera end has to be small and portable.
[21:51] <mfa298> might be a bit more trick to aim antennas if there's any air movement.
[21:52] <moj_> ah
[21:52] <qyx_> then 5G is not an option :/
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[21:53] <craag> qyx_: Yeah, it's tricky, but I think XBee Pros could be the best chance.
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[21:53] <mfa298> qyx_: on the list of options I was looking at I think most of the higher bandwidth XBee modules were 2.4GHz so not so good for HAB use (10mW limit within IR2030 for UK use airborne)
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[21:54] <moj_> i will have a central point to receive where it is probably fixed on a tree, then 200/500 metres away behind understays/high trees and bushes i will have a portable camera taking snaps of whatever.
[21:54] <qyx_> and the 433MHz ism? i think you can use all allowable bandwidth here for data transfers
[21:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> B-31 signal strength seems to be varying quite a bit this evening ?
[21:56] <moj_> do i need a massive antenna on that, i want something i can put in a backpack and then strap to on a tree
[21:56] <mfa298> moj_: how well things work is likely to depend on how much stuff is in the way (and what bands you can legally use in the country your visiting)
[21:57] <craag> qyx_: Well you get more power on 868, and for this I think link reliability is going to be more important than sheer throughput.
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[21:58] <mfa298> moj_: antenna shouldnt need to be that big, (size is related to the frequency it works on and how much gain it needs)
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[21:59] <mfa298> moj_: higher frequencies need smaller antennas (TV antennas are around 400-800 MHz, depending on area, and fairly high gain)
[21:59] <qyx_> what adaptive frequency agility means?
[21:59] <qyx_> does
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: It seems to be an antenna radiation pattern plus spinning
[21:59] <craag> qyx_: Means it jumps channel if one's in use.
[21:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> The Tx can change frequency rapidly
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[22:00] <Laurenceb__> anyone in the US here?
[22:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is it any different fom previous LeoBodnar
[22:00] <Laurenceb__> who wants to make a quick buck
[22:00] <moj_> i see, so the options are 5.8ghz wifi (with repeaters) vs xbee 868mhz (assuming legal barriers are down)
[22:00] <qyx_> ok, so it is hardly considerable if only one channel is available
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[22:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> moj_: thinking of antennas ilke this for your stationary part, http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-ANT5830B
[22:01] <mfa298> moj_: I think those are probably the best bets.
[22:01] <mfa298> moj_: are you able to tell us what jungle / country this is for ?
[22:01] <nats`> LeoBodnar do you have a path prediction
[22:01] <DL7AD> http://ea3hmj.qlfecv.net/map/mapV2.php#
[22:01] <moj_> brazil amazon to start with
[22:01] <qyx_> lulz
[22:02] <OH7HJ> Yep moj_ and others, aerials for reception and portable direction finding do not need be massive. A featherweight glass fibre or carbon fibre stick with aluminun tape is just as good Rx aerial material as massive aluminum bar.
[22:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Dense foliage is going to play havoc at GHz freqs
[22:02] <mfa298> I think for Brazil 868 might not be possile but you might be able to use 900MHz (having not actually looked it up)
[22:02] <craag> moj_: The 900MHz xbee pro looks like the one you want to me.
[22:03] <OH7HJ> My 19-el 432 MHz foldable glass fiber yagi weighs about half a kg.
[22:03] <moj_> ok
[22:03] <craag> Note, 900Mhz xbee is completely different to 900MHz GSM
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> short term, at current altitude http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/170768_trj001.gif
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[22:04] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: arko is
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> [in the US]
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> yeah ill wait until hes on
[22:04] <Laurenceb__> i need to buy some LSM330DL
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> no-one will ship to UK
[22:05] <mfa298> 902-928 MHz is listed as ISM in Region 2 (the Americas) on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
[22:06] <qyx_> Laurenceb__: dlc is bad? same footprint
[22:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Farnell says no longer manurfactured Laurenceb
[22:06] <Laurenceb__> qyx_ different footprint
[22:07] <qyx_> O_o really.
[22:07] <OH7HJ> Leo, what actually bursts foil balloons in a couple days?
[22:07] <Laurenceb__> 7.5x4.4 versus 4x5
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/LSM330DLC/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu5vlrqIFXt5ZpdT3H9reVVTM%252b2AUnMyR4%3d
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: ^^
[22:07] <Laurenceb__> DLC
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> i have a bunch of CE approved boards for DLC
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> What's up with C?
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> 7.5x4.4 versus 4x5
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> footprint
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> im in big shit now
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> ok
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> vertical have a few thousand
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> but they wont ship to me
[22:09] <Laurenceb__> bbl
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> is vertical == arrow?
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[22:09] <moj_> ok so for xbee2pi or arduino2pi
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[22:10] <moj_> sorry arduino2xbee
[22:10] <mfa298> for doing stuff with a camera pi might be easier (but might require more power)
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[22:10] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: aiui yes
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[22:11] <moj_> i see, what is its complexity in terms of how quick/easy is the integration between a suitable medium resolution camera with the pi
[22:12] <LeoBodnar> Why Vertical won't ship?
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> moj_: usb or pi webcam basically
[22:12] <Laurenceb__> ITAR
[22:12] <moj_> i want to send a pic if there is motion / i want to send a picture every minute/hour ?
[22:13] <mfa298> hmmm, from a quick google Brazil looks to be a more interesting place with it's radio regulations - you might actually have to talk to their authorities to see what you can legally do
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[22:14] <moj_> its not just brazil but we're going to different jungles dr congo & brazil
[22:14] <mfa298> pi has it's own camera module (picam and picam noir) or you can plug in a usb webcam and it's basicly a lower powered linux computer.
[22:14] <moj_> just to clear things up i am with the wwf
[22:15] <mfa298> arduino you're likely going to need to do more more and more specialist camera for it (but it probably won't need as much power)
[22:15] <moj_> so i am looking at what tech could be useful for catching poachers/getting data and more
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[22:16] <moj_> pi cam, interesting
[22:16] <moj_> didn't know they had such thing
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: they don't normally burst, just ice up and descend
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[22:16] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[22:17] <mfa298> DR Congo will probably need a different radio module (Africa and Europe are Region 1 so assuming your UK based what's legal here is more likely to be legal in DR Congo)
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> I had only a few burst but they seem to have been overfilled (too much overpressure under the strong sunlight)
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[22:17] <Lunar_Lander_> hello
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[22:18] <moj_> so ok so 900 is most likely a no no
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: I have a guy who runs professional procurement company, he might be able to help
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> ji Lunar_Lander_
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> how's life?
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander_> was B-30 recovered?
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> ticking away
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> partially
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> let me guess
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander_> the payload was found?
[22:19] <mfa298> 900 is unlikely for DR Congo but you might be ok with 868MHz, 900 might be ok for Brazil but you might need to talk to their Govmt to get it approved. (same could be true of other nations)
[22:20] <moj_> thanks for the help
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_Lander_: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/Ujan8sc1SF8
[22:20] <mfa298> as part of WWF you might be able to talk to the various Govmt's and get special permission to use other radio frequencies or more power anyway. ISM bands are license exempt bands that generally don't need any approval or special licences.
[22:21] <moj_> so the xbee is a tranceiver, i could plug the second xbee into my laptop can see images on what software?
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander_> THEY FOUND IT!
[22:21] <moj_> can i get it on a com port?
[22:22] <moj_> usb port
[22:22] <mfa298> but as their license exempt they tend to fairly lower power and can have a lot of other noise (car key fobs, home weather stations, wireless keyboards etc)
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander_> mfa298, who wans to fly in Brazil and in the DR Congo?
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[22:23] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander_: this is for cameras in a Jungle that moj_ is looking at (not HABs)
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander_> oh ok
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[22:25] <mfa298> moj_: you'll probably need to get someone to write some suitable software. Although if you had a Linux PC (another Pi) as the receiver you could possibly set the XBee's up to provide a slow network link so you could use fairly standard transfer protocols.
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[22:30] <moj_> wifi seems easier with that but...?
[22:30] <craag> moj_: There is software for the pi that can detect motion, and take pics then.
[22:31] <moj_> i see
[22:33] <mfa298> although I'm not sure you can use "motion" (assuming that's what craag was thinking of) with the picam, you might need a suitable usb webcam for that.
[22:33] <db_g6gzh_> http://www.bootc.net/archives/2012/07/21/raspberry-pi-xbee-pcbs/
[22:34] <craag> mfa298: There's a picam specific one.
[22:35] <mfa298> moj_: unfortunately this sort of thing you need to try out and see what works. You might find wifi works in some situations but not all, XBee probably has a better chance of working but won't tranfer images as quickly and may take a bit more work to setup.
[22:35] <mfa298> craag: ah, I hadn't come accross that yet.
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander_> hi craag
[22:39] <moj_> thanks for the help guys, im out
[22:40] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander_
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander_> how are you?
[22:40] <craag> I'm good, tired
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[22:41] <craag> you?
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> same her
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> +e
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander_> held my Journal Club on Monday, others in the workgroup thought it was good
[22:42] <craag> journal club?
[22:42] <craag> ls
[22:42] Sven1987h (~Sven1987h@46.115.98.8) left irc:
[22:43] <craag> arggh wrong window
[22:43] <craag> That tells me it's time for bed I think, gn all!
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander_> ah short explaination
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> every monday a person from the group presents and discusses a scientific paper
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> that is called Journal Club
[22:44] <Maxell> swl014
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> :)
[22:44] <craag> ah I see!
[22:44] <Maxell> yay
[22:44] <craag> Sounds cool!
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> yeah
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> and this was my first one
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> xD
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> and I had a Laser! :P
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> gn craag
[22:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn all
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> good night OZ1SKY_Brian
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> well done!
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander_> good night craag
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[22:50] <g6uim> That would seem to be me finished receiving B-31 good luck with the rest of the flight
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> thanks for tracking g6uim !
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[22:55] <gonzo_> replaced the LNA, can see an increase in the noise floor when powering it up now
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[22:55] <gonzo_> the previous one must have just not had enough gain for the huge cable loss
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[23:06] <g6uim> Don't know if my last messege went through. finished tracking on 70cm and VHF APRS good luck with the B31 flight
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[23:08] <LeoBodnar> thanks g6uim we got the last message, cheers for tracking
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[23:12] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good Evening
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[23:15] <LeoBodnar> Evening Steve
[23:15] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Leo :-) Well done on B-31, sorry I couldn't track it
[23:16] <LeoBodnar> nps! :)
[23:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> Did you see my new tracker PCB?
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[23:20] <LeoBodnar> Not yet!
[23:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> http://flyha.be/17Ibr6R Scroll down
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> Oh, niiice!
[23:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cheers.
[23:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> The first one is a little messy cos I had to do some troubleshooting (coil not connecting properly) but I'm chuffed to bits with them.
[23:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Tomorrow, I start programming....
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> I know the feeling :D
[23:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL
[23:23] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for mentioning me too :D I am glad I could help
[23:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh, no problem! Credit where it's due.
[23:24] G0AZS (56aea92d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.174.169.45) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[23:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> The fantastic thing about UKHAS is all the ideas and open knowledge.
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[23:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Well, one of the fantastic things. One of the many...
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, this is great place
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> yea
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> B-31 already?
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander_> cool!
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[23:35] <Steve_G0TDJ> Right, I have a hard day of programming ahead of me - Good Night anyone who's still out there - Leo, Good Luck with B-31!
[23:35] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ -> Steve_G0TDJ_AFK
[23:36] <LeoBodnar> cheers Steve, good night!
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[23:42] <arko> did someone ping me?
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[23:42] <Laurenceb__> me
[23:43] <Laurenceb__> can you post something to me?
[23:43] <Laurenceb__> ill pay $$$
[23:43] <Laurenceb__> pm
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[00:00] --- Wed Nov 20 2013