highaltitude.log.20131025

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[00:02] <arko> dayum LeoBodnar almost to the arctic circle
[00:03] <arko> B-21 was just 3.4 degrees away
[00:03] <LeoBodnar> checking the approach paths :D
[00:03] <arko> haha
[00:12] <PB0NER> got my m2 X yagi's today... me happy better baloon tracking.. mor gain!
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[00:15] <arko> :)
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> For optimum results, put one on the top, one on the bottom
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[02:20] <DL7AD_> good morning...
[02:21] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[02:25] <heathkid> guten Morgen
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[02:43] <DL7AD> $dSP3OSJ,4666,023817,54.904160,37.314168,5299,)4,8,%1=737,1.40,0.00*559A from RN3DDW
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[03:22] <DL7AD> i got some raw data and interpolate them.... this could be a valid package (interpolated): $$SP3OSJ,4712,025405,54.923370,37.66721 ,5310,-14,7,180.34 ,1.40,0.01
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[03:26] <DL7AD> got another two packes (original):
[03:26] <DL7AD> $$SP3OSJ,4757,031032,54.941380,38.049049,5308,-14,61&07.17,1.40,0.0p,B15E
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[03:26] <DL7AD> $$SP3OSJ,4765,031310,54944530,38.110298,5323,-15,7,1611.48,1.40,0.00*8AF8
[03:26] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ retrieved.... got first valid package from moscow
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[03:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[03:54] <DL7AD> on which frequency is b-22 transmitting exatly?
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[05:02] <jphoglund> morning
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[05:13] <DL7AD> hi jphoglund
[05:13] <x-f> morning
[05:14] <x-f> DL7AD, should be spot on 434.5
[05:14] <DL7AD> i?
[05:14] <DL7AD> ?!???!???
[05:14] <x-f> B-22
[05:14] <DL7AD> i know this station in moscow but he unfortunately had to go to work
[05:16] <DL7AD> he left his receiver ready on 434,500,500hz
[05:16] <x-f> good
[05:16] <DL7AD> but its not likely it will hit this frequency
[05:16] <x-f> i lost it because of terrain and sleep
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[05:17] <DL7AD> hm....
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[05:47] <jcoxon> morning all
[05:51] <jcoxon> slowly breaking into Russia it seems
[05:51] <DL7AD> yep.....
[05:51] <DL7AD> does anybody know a receiver for B-22? you jcoxon?
[05:52] <jcoxon> for spacenear.us?
[05:52] <jcoxon> sorry i don't currently
[05:52] <DL7AD> yes
[05:53] <jcoxon> mght be worth catching leo for a prediction of position
[05:53] <jcoxon> i suspect its near Moscow
[05:53] <jcoxon> work time, bbl DL7AD
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[05:53] <DL7AD> not yet....
[05:57] <Upu> B-21 should be in southern Finland/Estonia/Russia area this morning
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[05:59] <Upu> B-22 is probably on its way to Moscow
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[06:01] <DL7AD> Upu: b-22 will be in moscow at 0800Z
[06:02] <x-f> according to the prediction, B-21 should be still over Finland
[06:03] <x-f> sunrise was less than an hour ago
[06:03] <DL7AD> no... i think not. but near finland
[06:03] <DL7AD> newest prediction said, its between the border and st petersburg
[06:04] <DL7AD> but fins should receive it, when it did not go down
[06:05] <DL7AD> okay..... going for breakfast....
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[06:13] <daveake> Shocking that this place even exists ... http://imgur.com/i2cZEEl
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[06:20] <OH1MN> GM... What happened with B-21?
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[06:21] <OH1MN> Woke up in different part of the country... :)'
[06:21] <x-f> right were it was expected!
[06:21] <x-f> OH1MN, its battery is faulty, it goes to sleep around sunset
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[06:22] <OH1MN> x-f: think so... ok. thought maybe gps gone crazy...
[06:22] <UB4UAD> SP3OSJ signal is received. Tell me how to decode
[06:22] <x-f> UB4UAD, super, you need dl-fldigi - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide:russian
[06:23] <x-f> download here - http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[06:23] <Upu> Btw if you're in range of SP3OSJ you may have to have a listen on 434.500 as you're probably in range of the B as well
[06:24] <Upu> If anyone is in contact with RN3DDW
[06:24] <Upu> tell him to retune to 434.500
[06:25] <x-f> UB4UAD, if i understood DL7AD correctly, RN3DDW left his receiver on, but had to go to work
[06:25] <x-f> eek, Upu ^
[06:25] <Upu> never mine
[06:25] <Upu> mind
[06:26] <Upu> ping LeoBodnar
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[06:27] <UB4UAD> Thank you. I myself am at work, I work remotely from the receiver. Frequency: 437.700.300 MHz. QTH: LO24LA
[06:28] <x-f> wow, that's a fair stretch from Moscow
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[06:37] <fsphil> oh nice. the most east we've ever got telemetry from
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[06:42] <x-f> UB4UAD, how is it going there with the dl-fldigi?
[06:44] <LeoBodnar> yo Upu
[06:44] <Upu> morning Leo
[06:44] <LeoBodnar> morning all
[06:44] <DL7AD> good morning to all
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[06:53] <x-f> great, UB4UAD is on the map now
[06:53] <x-f> and what are M0XER's?
[06:54] <Upu> hehe
[06:54] <Upu> I'll let LeoBodnar tell you :)
[06:54] <DL7AD> rofl...
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[06:55] <x-f> that's his new and shiny callsign and both B's had APRS transmitters?
[06:56] <Upu> s/had/are
[06:56] <DL7AD> rofl.... then he has to change the software in flight :D
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[06:57] <Upu> right work for me laters all
[06:57] <x-f> cool
[06:58] <x-f> UB4UAD got SP3OSJ!
[06:59] <LeoBodnar> yes, Bs are APRSing away
[06:59] <UB4UAD> : :-)
[07:02] <fsphil> DL7AD: yea, he's THAT GOOD
[07:02] <fsphil> launched a service mission
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[07:05] <x-f> i would believe that :)
[07:06] <x-f> both APRS tracks - http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=5&call=a%2FM0XER-11%2Ca%2FM0XER-1&timerange=172800&tail=172800
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[07:08] <wd8mnv> so there a 4 floaters over russia atm?
[07:08] <wd8mnv> are*
[07:08] <DL7AD> 3
[07:08] <fsphil> yep!
[07:09] <DL7AD> B-21, B-22 and SP3OSJ. mine (D-1) already landed :(
[07:09] <wd8mnv> well done all
[07:10] <fsphil> if they had gone the same distance west, they'd be in canada by now
[07:11] <wd8mnv> are the arps on 2 meters?
[07:11] <wd8mnv> aprs*
[07:12] <jphoglund> that would be really amazing as they were on 70cm earlier :o
[07:12] <fsphil> the B's are doing aprs on 144.800 and dominoex on 434.500
[07:13] <fsphil> no idea how :)
[07:13] <wd8mnv> 2 tranmitters or 1 and freq switching?
[07:13] <fsphil> switching I believe
[07:14] <wd8mnv> that amazing
[07:14] <fsphil> I've a payload that does both, but has two radios
[07:15] <DL7AD> i think he has Si4463 and this chip can do broadband transmissions.
[07:17] <fsphil> I suppose the one advantage of mine is it can do rtty and aprs at the same time
[07:17] <wd8mnv> 144.8 x 3 = 434.4... so SWR souldn't be too bad
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[07:28] <x-f> spontaneus Trans-Eurasia challenge
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[07:35] <DL7AD> i would laugh if it will reach the us :D
[07:36] <wd8mnv> don't b-21 have a cranky battery? don't think it would make it
[07:36] <DL7AD> beaten by a balloon having less weight than 50g
[07:36] <DL7AD> wd8mnv: b-21? it will... but it can be received just on day
[07:37] <wd8mnv> if it gets to california maybe google will shoot it down
[07:37] <fsphil> solar powered
[07:37] <fsphil> the bad battery just means it won't tx at night
[07:39] <DL7AD> b-22 overtook b-21 :D
[07:40] <wd8mnv> b-21 was looking at sweedish furnature
[07:40] <x-f> B-21 had to say hello to friendly Finnish hams
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[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> good morning
[07:43] <fsphil> your half right
[07:44] <ibanezmatt13> what's up this morning?
[07:44] <daveake> balloonz
[07:44] <ibanezmatt13> no way really? :P
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: how was spud/mash?
[07:45] <daveake> shocker I know
[07:45] <daveake> recovered
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> good good
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> pics?
[07:45] <daveake> Well I haven't but they were
[07:45] <daveake> sorry
[07:45] <daveake> no can do
[07:45] <daveake> not yet
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> ah, ok. top secret I guess :)
[07:46] <ibanezmatt13> the names say it all
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> If testing goes well over the next 2 months or so, we'll see if we can get one up around Christmas
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> Our first launch was just called "NORB" and it was a Pi payload. So, this next flight will have my "NORB 3" board. But I don't think I should call it NORB 3 because it might mislead people into thinking it's my third flight :)
[07:49] <wd8mnv> NORB C then
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[07:49] <fsphil> 2ORB
[07:49] <diegoesep> hello daveake , first congratulations for your awesome balloon flights :)
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> 2ORB and beyond
[07:49] <diegoesep> I plan to launch a payload with a raspberry pi with CSI camera
[07:50] <daveake> ok
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> 2ORB or not 2ORB, that is the question fsphil
[07:51] <diegoesep> daveake, is it possible to provide the settings you are using for raspistill for having best images in high altitude?
[07:51] <daveake> Just set matrix metering
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, worked for me :P
[07:51] <fsphil> and take the plastic cover off the lens :)
[07:51] <daveake> orly?
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> nah
[07:51] <daveake> ^ this :p
[07:52] <daveake> and don't blob hot melt over it?
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> no daveake it wasn't the lens, it was sealant ;)
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> blame my Dad
[07:52] <daveake> looked very green
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> "Well, it'll have to be watertight" says my Dad. [plasters lens in a film of sealant]
[07:53] <daveake> oh dear
[07:53] <diegoesep> ok thanks daveake
[07:53] <diegoesep> and what about --exposure and --awb ?
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[07:53] <diegoesep> you used auto?
[07:53] <fsphil> one thing I've noticed about the Pi on batteries, it doesn't like quick power outages
[07:54] <fsphil> doesn't boot until power is removed for a second or two
[07:54] <daveake> Yes auto
[07:54] <daveake> You can improve on that no doubt but it does work well
[07:54] <diegoesep> ok :)
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> how long can Go Pros record up to? Like is there a typical time they last on a HAB battery wise?
[07:55] <diegoesep> as it will be my first launch , I don't want to make a mistake about these settings
[07:55] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Depends on batteries, card size, image size
[07:56] <ibanezmatt13> well, we were thinking at least 720p HD all the flight :/
[07:56] <daveake> Regular backpack and >=32GB card should get over 3 hours
[07:56] <daveake> However .... TEST IT
[07:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok, will do
[07:56] <daveake> GoPros can be objectionable re charging
[07:57] <daveake> I object to them anyway
[07:57] <ibanezmatt13> I can't think of any good HD camcorders
[07:58] <ibanezmatt13> that work well in extreme environments
[07:58] <diegoesep> daveake, were most of the image blurry or steady with this kind of settings using the CSI camera? I plan to do approximately one 5MP shot every 1 or 2 seconds
[07:58] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[07:59] <daveake> They're fine. I just take a separate shot every 15 secs or so; with 1-2 seconds you'll need to use the timelapse mode in raspistill. In that case, watch out for high power consumption
[08:00] <diegoesep> ok , so you would recommend one shot every 15 secs for keeping power usage lower?
[08:01] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[08:01] <DL1SGP> good morning :)
[08:02] <daveake> diegoesep Up to you. Measure it, and decide.
[08:02] <diegoesep> yes , I will check power consumption and define battery capacity :)
[08:03] <diegoesep> and also 3MBytes every one or two seconds may be too much compared to the sd card writing speed
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[08:21] <DL7AD> Upu? What is the difference weight of MAX7-C and Q?
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[08:23] <craag> DL7AD: No noticeable difference afaik.
[08:24] <craag> The changes between the two are physically tiny.
[08:24] <DL7AD> yes and i thought the MAX7Q is lighter than the C one
[08:25] <craag> How did you measure that?
[08:25] <fsphil> the chips are so small, any weight difference will be really tiny
[08:26] <craag> Yeah I doubt you'd be able to measure it on a set of scales.
[08:26] <DL7AD> but you can measure that.... it should be around 0.5g
[08:26] <DL7AD> i am ;)
[08:26] <craag> That much? ok..
[08:26] <craag> So you've already measured them, what are you asking?
[08:27] <DL7AD> no i did not... i dont have a MAX7Q
[08:28] <craag> Ah ok.
[08:28] <craag> The difference, if any, would be less than +-0.05 g, which you won't be able to measure on a normal set of scales :)
[08:28] <DL7AD> and unfortunately i already soldered all my MAX7C.... have to get new ones.... ^^
[08:28] <craag> So you can assume they are the same!
[08:29] <DL7AD> i will check that! :P
[08:29] <DL1SGP> .oO( he must be German )
[08:29] <DL1SGP> Guten Morgen Sven :)
[08:29] <fsphil> the weight of the balloon will vary more than the difference between gps modules
[08:29] <craag> Sure! Let us know if you do see a difference.. I would be surprised!
[08:29] <DL7AD> guten morgen felix :D
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[08:40] <DL7AD> craag... measured the balloons (qualatex 36") with exception of one they are nearly identical... 36.63g, 36.72g, 36.68g, 36.85g
[08:41] <fsphil> that's closer than I expected
[08:46] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[08:50] <OH7HJ> GD Gents! Does the B-21 have a twin call MOXER-11..?
[08:50] <fsphil> same payload OH7HJ
[08:52] <OH1MN> OH7HJ: Terävä huomio :)
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, you gonna try and cross the Arctic circle?
[08:54] <daveake> take a woolly hat
[08:54] <fsphil> my dog couldn't pull the sled
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:arctic_challenge
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[08:55] <OH7HJ> Does it also operate on dual mode..?
[08:55] <fsphil> it does OH7HJ
[08:55] <fsphil> dominoex and aprs
[08:56] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: yea when predictions are good I'll have a go
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[08:56] <OH7HJ> One is Domino 16, and what is the other mode?
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, I found out that that sensor only draws 0.000027A when it's running. I'm starting to doubt that power issues were the problem
[08:58] <OH7HJ> I left my Rx listening to it overnight, but as it resumed transmitting it was again beyong reach of my low aerials...
[08:59] <fsphil> without a multimeter I guess we'll never know ;)
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> :p
[09:00] <fsphil> did you ever put those ACK timeout messages back in?
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> don't think so
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> I just lost all hope and went to bed
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[09:00] <fsphil> you'll need them otherwise there's no telling if that change worked
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> Hyvaa paivaa Suomi
[09:01] <OH7HJ> Tnx info, fsphil! Does it transmit APRS on the same freq? Is the mode FM or USB for APRS?
[09:01] <fsphil> OH7HJ: the aprs will be FM on 144.800
[09:01] <OH7HJ> GD Sir Leo! :)
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: APRS on 144.8
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[09:02] <fsphil> yes it's all rather cunning
[09:02] <fsphil> like a fox
[09:02] <fsphil> only doesn't empty your bins at night
[09:02] <wd8mnv> hope it gets doccumented and written up
[09:03] <OH7HJ> OH, if I had known it I would have set my 2 m aerials to follow it, got a lot better range on that band!
[09:03] <LeoBodnar> It did not transmit at all overnight
[09:04] <LeoBodnar> And the first APRS transmission after waking up got picked up by OH1RT http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=5&call=a%2FM0XER-11&timerange=43200&tail=43200
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[09:09] <OH7HJ> Now it is picked up by my neighbour OH7BD APRS igate. He has Rx aerial a good 30 meters above ground.
[09:11] <OH7HJ> Looks like Arto's igate is picking up its all 2 m APRS packets easily. 70 cm seems to out of range of all Rx's by now?
[09:14] <fsphil> the 70cm should be easier to receive
[09:14] <fsphil> 2m just has more stations listening
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[09:16] <OH7HJ> I am quite close to Arto's OH7BD igate. Arto has also left 70 cm Rx listening to B-21, but neither his high aerial has copied B-21 on 70 cm.
[09:17] <OH7HJ> However, the omnidirectional 2 m APRS aerial right beside the 70 cm aerial seems to copy the 2 m APRS without efforts..!
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[09:24] <wd8mnv> doesn't seem to be any 70cm APRS frequency
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[09:26] <nats`> hi
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[09:27] <wd8mnv> hello
[09:29] <OH7HJ> Yes wd8mnv, the only APRS freq found to work here in deep forests is the 144.800 MHz.
[09:30] <OH7HJ> 50 MHz would work in mixed terrain still better, but it is still a new band to us, so no igates for it yet.
[09:33] <fsphil> wd8mnv: there is 433.800
[09:33] <OH7HJ> Wow, the B-21 seems to be copied now all the in Moscow!
[09:34] <wd8mnv> is that a UHF aprs freq?
[09:34] <Joel_re> has anyone here hooked a phone over fbus/serial to get it to send out sms for gps coordinates?
[09:34] <Joel_re> instead of getting a gsm board, I was hoping to use an old nokia phone
[09:35] <fsphil> wd8mnv: it's listed as such in the uk band plan, but it's likely not used by many at all
[09:35] <wd8mnv> hmmm... i don't think there's one for the US at all
[09:35] <OH7HJ> Yes there is allocation for 70 cm APRS, but igates for it only in some central Europe cities.
[09:36] <wd8mnv> one was proposed... but never adopted afaik
[09:37] <fsphil> 144.800 is empty where I live too
[09:37] <fsphil> I setup an igate for two weeks, and it received less than 10 packets
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[09:38] <OH7HJ> 70 cm has only about half the range of 2 m from surface mobile. Further, 50 MHz has almost twice the range than 2 m on surface.
[09:39] <mfa298> Joel_re: I think people have used phones to send sms details but it's not a recommended way to track - you'll only get packets when the payload is relativly low and potentially nothing when it's landed
[09:39] <fsphil> weirdly I can hit a nearby 70cm repeater from the house, but not a closer 2m one
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[09:39] <OH7HJ> Especially if there are hills and forests. From the sky there is less difference with range.
[09:39] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[09:40] <fsphil> 6m does seem like a useful band. nobody seems to use it
[09:41] <OH7HJ> Is B-21 starting to descend..?
[09:41] <wd8mnv> i don't have any antennas... and plenty of local niose up to 30 MHz
[09:42] <OH7HJ> Yes it is, fsphil! well, someone uses it, we are experimenting with it to building a packet radio emergency network on 50 MHz to reach all places in our wilds.
[09:42] <fsphil> nice
[09:43] <fsphil> I use it for my own testing sometimes
[09:43] <fsphil> basically have the band to myself here :)
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[09:43] <fsphil> I've heard stations from norway and sweden on it once
[09:45] <eroomde> fleuber-hueber-trueber-werube-fleuber
[09:45] <eroomde> that's how they sound
[09:46] <OH7HJ> Yes, Es and Aurora are usual on 6 m. But what it is really good about are connections in mixed terrain.
[09:47] <eroomde> william shatner's rocket man really is the weirdest thing done in the name of (mainstream) art probably in the last 100 years
[09:47] <Joel_re> mfa298: thing is, Im going to be the only one reciever tracking this baloon
[09:47] <Joel_re> balloon*
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> everything is in russia
[09:48] <Joel_re> so it'll be sad if I lose the signal and have no idea here it is
[09:48] <Joel_re> s/here/where
[09:48] <OH7HJ> We regularly get in our experiments 1,5 ... 2 x the range on 6 m in hilly forest terrain than on the next best band 2 m.
[09:49] <x-f> it's not easy to lose it completely, unless your transmitter fails, but then there's no difference how many receivers you have
[09:49] <x-f> Joel_re, do you have a spare computer?
[09:49] <mfa298> Joel_re: by all means try sms as a backup but don't rely on it.
[09:49] <Joel_re> x-f: yeah
[09:49] <OH7HJ> 2 m curves a bit beyond horizon, but 6 m seems to climb especially fine beyond hills and horizon.
[09:49] <Joel_re> you mean I run one at home?
[09:49] <mfa298> from people trying sms from balloons I think the failure rate is around 50%
[09:50] <x-f> Joel_re, yes, control it from the road, using VNC, we did that, and it really helped with the coverage
[09:51] <Joel_re> x-f: ok, so I dont carry the reciever with me
[09:51] <fsphil> have a receiver with you, and one at home
[09:51] <x-f> no, you need a receiver too
[09:51] <Joel_re> Ill test it out
[09:51] <DL1SGP> yeah issues can be cellphone giving up on too many cells being available, or environment effects (temperature) on the cellphone making it go silent.
[09:51] <mfa298> Joel_re: you'll want a reciever for you, but having a 2nd reciever in a fixed location could be useful
[09:51] <Joel_re> ok
[09:52] <DL1SGP> Joel_re: where abouts in the world will you be flying?
[09:53] <x-f> West India
[09:53] <DL1SGP> lovely :)
[09:54] <eroomde> is West India literally the west of india or do you mean what we (britihs) would call The West Idies, i.e. the carribean/bahamas?
[09:55] <eroomde> West Indies*
[09:55] <Joel_re> DL1SGP: from near 19.3784,72.7968
[09:55] <mfa298> Joel_re: if you're using the ukhas method with rtty it might be worth finding some local amateur radio clubs as you might find people that would help track
[09:55] <Joel_re> although Im thinking I launch from abou 60 kms inland
[09:56] <Joel_re> mfa298: yep I am using the ukhas rtty method, I could not locate any active amateur radio clubs
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[09:58] <x-f> eroomde, literally :)
[09:59] <mfa298> Joel_re: you might want to try http://www.arsi.info/
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[09:59] <mfa298> they can probably tell you if there are local clubs - or how you can get in touch with local amateurs
[10:00] <Joel_re> mfa298: oh neat, thanks
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[10:09] <Babs> Morning HAB fans. It's been a while.
[10:11] <eroomde> and yet here we still are
[10:11] <Babs> it's like nothing has changed in the 3 weeks since i last logged on eroomde
[10:11] <Babs> apart from......
[10:11] <UpuWork> oh hi Babs :)
[10:12] <Babs> we have a carbon fibre gimbal ready for the 2017
[10:12] <Babs> http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/10472899086/
[10:12] <Babs> well, theoretically, I haven't put it together yet. It might not all fit together
[10:12] <Babs> Hey upuWork - are you better? Hope so
[10:12] <UpuWork> yup much better thx
[10:13] <Babs> excellent excellent
[10:13] <UpuWork> I was just looking at your post on the Trackuino forums the other night
[10:13] <UpuWork> from way back when
[10:13] <Babs> BITD - the trackuino i built was mega
[10:14] <Babs> only to find that it was illegal after i built it
[10:14] <DL7AD> what happened to b-21?
[10:14] <Babs> brilliant babs, brilliant
[10:16] <eroomde> gimbal looks great
[10:17] <Babs> the carbon fibre is mega stuff. never played with it before.
[10:18] <Babs> i've got the brushless motors and the slip rings, the aluminium brackets should be with me next week
[10:18] <Babs> thanks eroomde
[10:19] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[10:19] <Babs> i think i am going to try and eos m with it. has anyone used one before (before i buy it). its either that or a powershot, but the eos m has a pancake lens which should give a good panoramic effect i think.
[10:25] <Hix> hey Babs, long time..... CFRP looks ace!!
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[10:25] <Babs> hix - your guy was a top tip. excellent machining service, £30 to cut it. really appreciate your help with it.
[10:26] <Hix> nps - who did it in the end? St Albans guy?
[10:27] <Babs> peter solman - fantastic guy
[10:27] <Hix> ah yes, nice. What did it end up as? A3 sheet 2.0mm
[10:28] <eroomde> £30 is a very very very good price for that lot
[10:28] <Hix> it is when you factor in tool wear
[10:28] <Babs> yes, a3 2mm sheet. that was about 80, so we are 110 all in.
[10:28] <Hix> cured CFRP monsters bits
[10:28] <Babs> plus it looks nice. and as you know, i pay far more attention to how something looks than whether it functions well.
[10:29] <LazyLeopard> Heh
[10:29] <eroomde> i have 3 sheets of about 1m x 1m nomex honeycomb cfrp from hexcel. i'm sort of afraid of usig them because they're so pretty
[10:29] <eroomde> needs to be the right project
[10:30] <Hix> "Performance is nothing. Image is everything"
[10:30] <Babs> hix - thats where adidas have gone wrong.
[10:30] <Hix> eroomde sandwich panel?
[10:31] <Babs> eroomde - just scale up my gimbal and pop an office chair underneath it. I'll supply the oxygen canister. that would be the right project.
[10:31] <Hix> babs that was MP4-23 unofficial tagline
[10:31] <Babs> i wouldnt have said that in front of Mr Dennis
[10:32] <Hix> :p
[10:32] <eroomde> i can just imagine him telling you off
[10:33] <eroomde> ' rather think that perhaps that was an unhelpful contribution, approximately'
[10:33] <Babs> did you ever see that program about mcclaren and their attention to detail?
[10:33] <Babs> they were interviewing him in the big sweeping section with all of the championship winning cars
[10:33] <Hix> the MP4-12C docu?
[10:34] <Babs> and he was pointing to a floor tile which was cracked and saying it was really p*ssing him off
[10:34] <Hix> thats "The Boulevard" babs.
[10:34] <eroomde> i know that the MP4 has hexagonal section wire strands to improve their packing factors when used in cables
[10:34] <Babs> because it would have to be replaced, and it would be of a different batch and therefore a slightly different shade
[10:35] <Babs> i think he also rejected a trolley because it had the wrong shade of grey for the wheels
[10:35] <Hix> great place to work
[10:35] <fsphil> lol
[10:35] <Babs> although that might have been steve jobs
[10:35] <Hix> nope - the bogeys were specced wrong
[10:35] <Hix> s/specced/supplied
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[10:36] <Hix> Geroge, the cleaner used to have a template which lined up to marks under big Ron's desk to make sure seat was aligned and at the right distance from the desk
[10:36] <Babs> if i was whitmarsh i would be permanently sh1tting myself having dennis behind me
[10:36] <Babs> albeit doing it from the comfort of my private jet
[10:37] <Babs> Petula Clark: "money doesn't make you happy, but it makes being miserable a lot more comfortable"
[10:37] <daveake> Doesn't sound that comfortable
[10:37] <Hix> There was an unofficial jackpot prize if you could get away with availing yourslef of the facilities on htat jet
[10:37] <daveake> haha
[10:38] <Hix> spelling just for you there babs
[10:39] <Babs> i abhor bad spelling
[10:39] <fsphil> your and me both
[10:39] <Babs> if there was something that combined bad spelling and bad design eroomde and i could really go to town
[10:39] <daveake> indede
[10:40] <Babs> this would do it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2058934/Manchester-United-gaffe-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-Stand-sign.html
[10:40] <Babs> with apologies for posting a daily mail link
[10:41] <daveake> They'll need some extra time to fix that
[10:41] <Babs> arf
[10:41] <fsphil> I was just a bit sick
[10:42] <Hix> Here's some Friday noise http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9ZHMjdzw0w0#t=38
[10:43] <fsphil> you will certainly be noticed driving that
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[10:53] <eroomde> another reason i don't like monte carlo for the predictor - the predictor doesn't model parachute glide
[10:53] <eroomde> and starting to put confidence ellipses around thigns can give people a false sense of security
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[10:54] <adamgreig> yea there are a number of issues
[10:54] <adamgreig> not having noise distributions either
[10:59] <Hix> this ray tracing software I'm learnign uses the Monte carlo method.
[10:59] <adamgreig> that's.. odd but okay fine I guess?
[11:00] <adamgreig> I thought ray tracing was pretty deterministic but maybe it's doing subsurface scatter and things
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[11:00] <LeoBodnar> ray tracing and Monte Carlo are made for each other
[11:00] <LeoBodnar> exhaustive methods are probably impractical
[11:01] <Hix> I'd never heard of it before
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[11:08] <UpuWork> I've been promised NTX2B's are shipping on Tuesday
[11:08] <UpuWork> don't hold your breath though
[11:19] <tweetBot> @thecraag: No balloon launch at BATC Convention tomorrow due to the large HAB-magnets in Russia (also wind). SSDV Demo is going ahead though! #ukhas
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> You can release balloons up to 2m without issue and they can free fly. I assume blimps totally enclosed by 2m are 'normal' R/C devices?
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> RC is completely different ballgame, I think it will be classed as UAV
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[11:27] <cm13g09> hey chrisstubbs
[11:27] <cm13g09> how goes?
[11:28] <chrisstubbs> Okay thanks, been hibernating until the wind dies down
[11:28] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ_AFK -> Steve_G0TDJ
[11:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> Afternoon chaps
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[11:28] <craag> Afternoon Steve_G0TDJ, cm13g09
[11:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hiya Phil
[11:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> So no flights now huh?
[11:29] <craag> Not from me :(
[11:29] <Steve_G0TDJ> Well, if the time is wrong, it's wrong
[11:29] <craag> Filling the balloon with a full m3 of helium, to burst at 10km, would dump it 5 miles offshore.
[11:29] <Steve_G0TDJ> Fair enough
[11:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm going to try and re-launch VAYU-1 Sunday week.
[11:30] <mattbrejza> not even a pico? didnt get it working in time?
[11:30] <craag> Considered doing a pico float instead, but decided it wasn't worth the hassle, would far rather have the time to talk to people there!
[11:30] <fsphil> yea the wind this weekend is forecast to be very strong
[11:30] <craag> mattbrejza: I'll send it from soton sometime soon instead.
[11:30] <mattbrejza> ah :)
[11:30] <LazyLeopard> ...and not blowing the correct way for the Arctic challenge.
[11:31] <fsphil> nope
[11:31] <mattbrejza> btw need to look at that cc430 tracker at some point
[11:31] <craag> mattbrejza: Yeah, I've been thinking about it.
[11:32] <mattbrejza> cool
[11:32] <mattbrejza> i have yet to decide whether a cc430 can be driven by a clipped sine oscillator
[11:33] <mattbrejza> howver you can do http://www.pletronics.com/ple/articles/view/401 and alwats NC the IC and short the resistor
[11:33] <craag> Thinking about how to redesign for that lisocl, wondering if 3.3V and LDO would be the way to go, makes everything a lot simpler.
[11:33] <craag> Is cc430 constant-current?
[11:33] <mattbrejza> yea when going 3.7->3.3 less of an issue
[11:33] <mattbrejza> well itll be lower power on 2V id guess if thats what youre getting at
[11:34] <mattbrejza> im not sure how much power the radio uses on different supply voltages
[11:34] <mattbrejza> would have to check
[11:34] <mattbrejza> stepdowns are happier than step ups though
[11:34] <craag> Hmm, will look into it and see what power we get off each.
[11:34] <craag> 3.6 -> 3.3 is 92% efficient
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[11:35] <mattbrejza> urgh why does the chrome pdf viewer have like no features
[11:36] <craag> Also we are going to be sleeping a lot of the time with this.
[11:37] <craag> So quiescent current may be more of a factor, and tx current a lot less so.
[11:37] <mattbrejza> at some point we'll need to speak to andras to see if theres anything else he might want out of it
[11:37] <mattbrejza> could put snap-off-able expansion headers and so forth
[11:37] <craag> Yep, sounds like a plan.
[11:37] <craag> what sort of timeframe are you looking at?
[11:38] <mattbrejza> speak to him next week somepoint
[11:38] <fsphil> CC430 dev board is £133. they're doing it wrong
[11:38] <mattbrejza> its not super urgent
[11:38] <craag> fsphil: haha, I've heard someone else say exactly that recently!
[11:39] <mattbrejza> could always sell these boards through habsupplies :P (i dont know what the demand is, QFN makes it all a bit more annoying)
[11:39] <fsphil> the IC itself is £3 :)
[11:39] <mattbrejza> also single component match/filter is super nice
[11:39] <fsphil> is it easy enough flashing the software into them?
[11:39] <joph> fsphil, write ti a mail with a short info about your project, usually they give you a huge discount or the board for free
[11:39] <joph> a prof of me told us this, he worked for several years at ti
[11:39] <craag> Instead of 'designing the payload' being the 'step' into the hobby, it would be soldering the darn qfn!
[11:40] <fsphil> I've an oven :)
[11:40] <PB1DFT> howdy...
[11:40] <mattbrejza> also the olimex cc430 dev board is £25
[11:40] <fsphil> ah now that's much better
[11:40] <fsphil> ST are practically giving their stm32 dev boards away
[11:40] <mattbrejza> but that board needs a programmer i think
[11:41] <craag> mattbrejza: Next week sounds good, I have a work project for next weekend, so won't do much dev before then.
[11:41] <joph> fsphil, yeah, stm was great at the embedded world ;)
[11:41] <joph> got 2 rfid dev kits
[11:41] <mattbrejza> yea its more to see what he wants and what we want out of it
[11:42] <craag> Cool :)
[11:42] <mattbrejza> ill see when jonsowman is around too
[11:46] <mattbrejza> btw craag cc430 radio current is about the same for 2V and 3V
[11:46] <craag> Ok.. but radio is going to be switched off 90% of the time I guess.
[11:46] <mattbrejza> so energy is linear to voltage
[11:46] <craag> We'll talk to andras and then work it out.
[11:47] <mattbrejza> well it depends if we're doing a leo or a 2hr up and down
[11:47] <mattbrejza> and if using a linear regulator doesnt matter if 2V or 3V from a battery life point of view
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[11:48] <craag> for single-flight, 2V would be better I'm sure, just wondering if how much we lose by simplifiying the board and cutting a bit of cost/assembly time.
[11:48] <craag> Anyway gtg pack the car, talk next week!
[11:48] <mattbrejza> laters
[11:49] <mattbrejza> we can discuss at some other point :)
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[12:02] <Laurenceb> what is M0XER?
[12:02] <Laurenceb> B-22?
[12:02] <daveake> yup
[12:02] <Laurenceb> oh lol
[12:08] <DL1SGP> Leo chose to identify properly when entering russian airspace I fear :D so they know who to arrest
[12:13] <x-f> just read the news, you're getting 30-35 m/s winds this weekend in the UK, sheesh
[12:13] <DL1SGP> it will be a stormy weekend :D
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[12:21] <Babs> Appears to be slotting together nicely at this stage http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/sets/72157636929911016/ fsphil - glad you knew what a stand off was called a couple of weeks ago (I was getting nowhere on ebay with "plastic tubes"), they work well
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[12:22] <fsphil> they should be called plastic tubes
[12:23] <fsphil> that looks amazing
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[12:24] <SpeedEvil> That looks like radically stupid overkill.
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[12:24] <SpeedEvil> If that is in fact carbon, not fake carbon
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[12:30] <Babs> cheers fsphil. the motors are pretty cool bits of kit http://www.iflight-rc.com/product/iPower-GBM-Motors-iPower-GBM3506H-130T-Hollow-Shaft.html - well they would be, if I hadn't lost them in the depths of my house somewhere
[12:30] <Hix> Babs no titanium M2/ M3 cap heads? shame on you ;p
[12:31] <Babs> it would have actually been ok with plastic m3 for the curved arm, only no-one makes them long enough
[12:31] <Hix> the motors are "Pre-wounded"
[12:31] <eroomde> that's a plus
[12:31] <Babs> i guess i could have fudged some out of threaded m3 rod and a glued nut
[12:32] <Babs> but silver is a good look against carbon, or in fact fake carbon as it could be
[12:33] <Hix> nope that's carbon, you can see the laminates in http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/10474251225/in/set-72157636929911016/lightbox/
[12:33] <Babs> although if it is fake, the place i got it from talks a good game http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Products/Pre-Preg-Carbon-Fibre-Sheet__CMFSRG.aspx
[12:34] Action: Hix laments the amount of offcuts and bits of flatstock that were just binned to keep the desk tidy in the past
[12:35] <Babs> we have to be able to get two of these things talking together, one to go up transmitting its location, and the other with an active stabiliser pointing at it and filming it going up
[12:35] <Babs> of course, in practice it may be marginally more difficult than my one sentence problem suggests
[12:36] <Hix> pah - tis probably the work of a moment
[12:37] <Babs> the HAB equivalent of http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/08/120806-mars-rover-jpl-landing-nasa-curiosity-science-space-photos/ - i love that photo
[12:37] <Darkside> Babs: we've done that already :P
[12:37] <Darkside> by chance
[12:37] <Darkside> kind of
[12:37] <Hix> oh yeah
[12:37] <Darkside> ill find the pic
[12:38] <Hix> England v Australia
[12:38] <Babs> i saw it. it was excellent.
[12:38] <Darkside> not many pixels across
[12:38] <Darkside> but still cool
[12:39] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/x8ITG7c.jpg
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[12:53] <fsphil> would the sky at 30km be dark enough to photo the suns atmosphere?
[12:53] <fsphil> with the sun covered up by a disk
[12:53] <fsphil> Corona's the word I was looking for
[12:54] <Hix> ND filter
[12:58] <Babs> disc as in the moon, or disc as in disc in front of the camera lens?
[13:00] <fsphil> front of the camera lens
[13:00] <fsphil> would be a good test of an aiming system
[13:03] <Babs> yep, I guess there may be a difference in refraction from a disc so close and a disc at the distance of the moon in terms of light coming into the camera. i have no clue of the impact of the difference
[13:04] <Babs> i think the first test will be to pick some massive structure and a clear day. Wembley arch, something like that and see how it tracks it.
[13:04] <Babs> i guess the difficulty with tracking the sun would be that it would be moving object (balloon) to moving object (sun) but presumably that could be overcome if the equations of motion are known.
[13:05] <Babs> which they are (of the sun). the rest is just bearings.
[13:05] <daveake> in both senses of the word
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[13:18] <fsphil> sun also has the added drama of destroying the sensor if you aim it wrong
[13:21] <Babs> especially if the camera is so stable it is pointing directly into it for 3 hours at a time
[13:21] <fsphil> there may need to be a protective shutter
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> For a step up boost regulator that will have a Vin always below 1.5v, what would I need to do in the code to get an accruate reading from an analog input on an Arduino
[13:23] <Babs> fsphil - hubble esque camera flap
[13:23] <Darkside> at that point you can feed the battery voltage straight into the avrs ADC pins
[13:24] <fsphil> make sure the aref voltage is above 1.5v
[13:24] <Darkside> fsphil: i've had troubles with it at 1.8v actually
[13:24] <Babs> i bet the NASA dudes who designed that would be disgusted with me calling it a camera flap
[13:24] <Darkside> workd finr at 3.3v
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> My initial thought was to scale it down to 0-1.5v but it doesn't seem like it would be accurate float voltage= raw_voltage * (1.5 / 1024.0);
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> It's connected to an analog pin on Arduino, A0
[13:24] <ve6ts> Babs probably
[13:24] <UpuWork> still coming tommorrow Matt ?
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> of course :)
[13:24] <fsphil> Babs: SPACE COVER. sheesh, get it right :)
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> 9?
[13:25] <UpuWork> well 9.30
[13:25] <UpuWork> is fine
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> sure
[13:25] <Babs> vehicle assembly building = large garage
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork - I'm looking into getting a Go Pro HD Hero 2, but I'm not convinced about how long it will last up there
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[13:26] <adamgreig> get the battery bacpac too
[13:26] <adamgreig> then you're good for some hours
[13:26] <fsphil> easy enough to test
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> more than 3 hours?
[13:26] <fsphil> just run it
[13:26] <Darkside> we use lithium AAs with a switchmode regulator
[13:26] <Darkside> powering it via the usb socket
[13:26] <adamgreig> I reckon 4 hours or so on a gopro 2 with bacpac
[13:26] <Darkside> lasts for hours and hours
[13:26] <adamgreig> maybe a bit more
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[13:27] <adamgreig> depends on the video fps and resolution etcetc#
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool, worth getting one then to try out
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> 720p would be ok
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> brb
[13:27] <Darkside> anyway, we've had a gopro run for like 6 hours before
[13:27] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13 it will fill a 32Gb card with the extended battery
[13:27] <UpuWork> ~ 4hours
[13:27] <Darkside> i think we had 8 lithium AAs powering it, via a buck regulator
[13:28] <ve6ts> ibanezmatt13 i use the go-pro with extra battery pack for all my hab flights
[13:28] <Hix> POWER VIA REAR BUS PORT SEEMS BEST OPTION
[13:28] <Hix> damn, sorry
[13:29] <Babs> there is an easier way/cheaper way. just jump a mini usb from the gopro to an external battery like the itrent.
[13:29] <Darkside> Babs: this is what we do
[13:29] <Darkside> works perfectly
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[13:29] <fsphil> those USB battery things worth it?
[13:29] <Darkside> we made our own
[13:29] <Darkside> 3A buck regulator from somewhere
[13:29] <ve6ts> i had in the past interferrence problems with using a regulator to power the go-pro it killed my GPS signal
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[13:29] <Darkside> thn gt a bettr regulator :P
[13:29] <Darkside> i think th on we used was shielded
[13:30] <ve6ts> u would have have to use a better reg or just use the correct voltage from a battery
[13:30] <Darkside> the camera payload wasn't particularly light, but it worked
[13:30] <Babs> see http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8665144505/in/set-72157632733154985 ibanezmatt13. there is another battery in there to power the DSLR.
[13:30] <Babs> USB battery things are great fsphil. you end up walking around the house looking for things to power.
[13:30] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2012-10-07_Horus_29/Pages/21.html
[13:30] <Darkside> theres the gopro payload
[13:31] <Darkside> with 'stabilisation rods'
[13:31] <fsphil> lol Babs
[13:31] <Darkside> (hint, they dont do much)
[13:31] <fsphil> I think I'd need one for my phone, which runs out after about 12 hours
[13:32] <fsphil> right, ohm time
[13:33] <mfa298> is that a pun you can't resist making?
[13:33] <Darkside> i'll admit that
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[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> Looks like I'm gettin me a Go Pro then, thanks for the advice
[13:40] <ed__> from 100,000 ft you'll be able to see the black sky and the curvature of the lens-distortion
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[13:41] <ed__> is it?
[13:41] <PB1DFT> is there a launch date/time for the new mash/spud?.
[13:42] <Darkside> ed__: lol
[13:42] <Darkside> yes, lens distortion
[13:42] <Darkside> lots of it
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> Do these things mist up easily?
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[13:42] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 If you use the case, yes
[13:42] <LeoBodnar> You need much better camera than gopro ibanezmatt13 http://www.thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf
[13:43] <daveake> PB1DFT What new mash/spud?
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> my requirements are: HD non stop video footage for a 2-3 hour flight
[13:44] <Darkside> gopro does fine for that
[13:44] <Darkside> you can set it to modes where the lens distortion is not so apparent
[13:45] <mattbrejza> we've used a contour roam 2
[13:45] <daveake> if you can stand the bendyness
[13:45] <mattbrejza> as an alternative
[13:45] <mattbrejza> video is somewhere
[13:45] <Darkside> and if you record in 1080p you can ccorrect for it after
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> Sounds like I should get one anyway, ok thanks
[13:45] <ed__> they're useful
[13:45] <Darkside> you just need to be aware of the lens distoriton
[13:45] <ed__> the 240fps part is fun
[13:46] <Darkside> ed__: thats only the hero 3, right?
[13:46] <OH7HJ> LeoBodnar and fsphil, quite a surprise that B-21 delayed APRS beacon wakeup you made..! We have been wondering about it on local repeater. :)
[13:46] <ed__> it's the newer one yes
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> So this lens distortion makes it look more curved than it actually is?
[13:46] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: yes
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[13:46] <Darkside> do you want an example?
[13:46] <daveake> or less
[13:46] <daveake> or curved the other way
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> Anthony has got fantastic Go Pro footage at 40km though
[13:47] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/18440325
[13:47] <Darkside> epic lens distortion in that video
[13:47] <Darkside> that is pretty extreme though
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> That makes it looks awesome
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGLB9-LdpYM
[13:47] <Darkside> we've had other flights where we've flown in a different mode, and its much less worse
[13:48] <Darkside> less worse
[13:48] <Darkside> lol
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure it'll be fine. Any footage is better than my last footage...
[13:48] <Darkside> but yeah, in that ava video, you can see the bendy horizon
[13:48] <PB1DFT> daveake: the one that is currently on spacenear.us
[13:49] <PB1DFT> last contact time this morning...
[13:49] <Darkside> man, i still love grants ability to pick good music for th videos :P
[13:49] <daveake> Yesterday's flight
[13:49] <Hix> Darkside isn't that the curvature of the earth from space ;p
[13:49] <Babs> ibanezmatt13. if you can sneak a bearing between the string and balloon it limits spinning http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8845053028/in/set-72157632733154985
[13:49] <Darkside> Hix: no :P
[13:50] <daveake> The tracker was still running in the back of my car and got uploaded by mistake :p
[13:50] <OH7HJ> I see also B-22 has a surprise APRS..! And now it has flown deeper in Russia than Mathias Rust..! ;)
[13:50] <PB1DFT> ;) as they say shit happens ;)
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: APRS was off for the night too
[13:50] <Hix> ahh, its just that I've read that from space balloons you can clearly see the curvature of the earth using a GoPro
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> on B-21
[13:50] <Darkside> Hix: but not with other, longer focal length cameras
[13:50] <Darkside> CONSPIRACY
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: That's amazin
[13:50] <Babs> you can see the curvature of the earth at sea level using a gopro Hix
[13:51] <OH7HJ> It was off over Sweden too? I guess it would have been well visible there if APRS on?
[13:51] Action: Hix stops trollin
[13:51] <PB1DFT> daveake: did it/someone save the pics it took online?
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: Do you have any pics of the bearing mechanism?
[13:51] <Hix> There's a company in the US who'll change the lens in a go pro
[13:52] <daveake> Yes I have all the pix (those sent and others too)
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> Yes, it turned APRS over Sweden http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=8&call=a%2FM0XER-11&timerange=172800&tail=172800
[13:52] <PB1DFT> are they online yet?.
[13:52] <daveake> No, not allowed.
[13:52] <OH7HJ> The APRS seem work quite fine, congrats! If the B-21 keeps luckily alive it might still come in range of some igate...
[13:53] <daveake> Have to wait for the show to air.
[13:53] <fsphil> OH7HJ: it's all LeoBodnar's work :)
[13:53] <mattbrejza> did you have a fancy front end to change between 144 and 434 or is it two transmitters?
[13:53] <Babs> here http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8461544439/in/set-72157632733154985. but ignore all the other gumpf, if you get one of these http://www.smbbearings.com/Framesets/Plastic_Metric_Frame.htm and work out a way of attaching the string from the balloon to the inner part of the bearing, and the string from the payload to the outer part of the bearing it will be good enough
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[13:53] <LeoBodnar> Single transmitter and no fancies :)
[13:53] <PB1DFT> can't wait. i missed the launch completely yesterday
[13:53] <mattbrejza> same frequency band for aprs and domex?
[13:53] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: so on 2m its likely also putting out a few mW at 288MHz :P
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Babs
[13:54] <Babs> ie you just need the middle ring, seen spinning here http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8589745881/in/set-72157632733154985
[13:54] <LeoBodnar> B-21 is presumed dead, it must have suffered a atypical burst that sometimes happens to foil balloons
[13:54] <OH7HJ> Single Tx for both bands, of two singles?
[13:54] <Darkside> im sure the second harmonic wont be that far down
[13:54] <LeoBodnar> 2nd is almost nil Darkside
[13:54] <Darkside> how are you doing the filtering then?
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[13:55] <LeoBodnar> I can't see discernable 2nd harmonic on an analyser
[13:55] <Darkside> hrm
[13:55] <OH7HJ> Yes, B-21 alt curve suggests so...
[13:55] <Darkside> i could when i was playing with a RFM22B
[13:55] <LeoBodnar> 3rd yes but it is below 1mW
[13:55] <mattbrejza> isnt there a match on the output of the ic?
[13:55] <Darkside> hrm maybt it was the 3rd harmonic
[13:56] <Darkside> anyways
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[13:56] <Darkside> so im guessing you're using a lower crystal than normally intended?
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[13:57] <LeoBodnar> Even harmonics of purely periodic signal are zero
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[13:57] <Darkside> so the usual 230MHz bottom limit moves down to 100MHz or so, and the 960MHz cap moves down
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[13:57] <LeoBodnar> Si406x are specced to work at 144MHz
[13:57] <Darkside> ooh
[13:57] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[13:57] <Darkside> now thats interesting
[13:57] <Darkside> up to what power?
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> and up to 1GHz+
[13:57] <x-f> LeoBodnar, what antenna are you using this time?
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[13:58] <Darkside> i might use them in my new fox design
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[13:58] <Darkside> if i can have a single pcb that i can build for either 2m or 70cm that'd be awesome
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/ezradiopro/pages/si446x.aspx
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[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> Babs: Where can you buy those plastic rods and connectors that you used?
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> What is the 433MHz dx limit?
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> It might be amusing to see if we could get 1000km - balloon to balloon
[14:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: B-21 record length?
[14:00] <OH7HJ> Both balloon sailed higher and longer time then previous. Did you have different balloons now, LeoBodnar?
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> No, you had better wether OH7HJ :D
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> *weather
[14:01] <OH7HJ> It kept well above our louse weather down here... :)
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[14:02] <Babs> ibanezmatt13 - i designed them and had them 3D printed out. You are welcome to the files although the connector parts proved a bit fragile on landing and weren't the cheapest, so bear that in mind. rods were carbon fibre from here http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Category/Carbon-Fibre-Products/Carbon-Fibre-Tube/Roll-Wrapped-Carbon-Tube.aspx
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[14:03] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> To climb higher it needs to get stretched by the Sun so if you don't have in the first place at least once you keep limping at 6500-7000m or so
[14:03] <fsphil> Babs: you don't happen to be in Manchester?
[14:04] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[14:04] <Babs> ? no. ermmm, am i being slow on the uptake?
[14:04] <fsphil> http://boingboing.net/2013/10/25/manchester-cops-trumpet-seized.html
[14:04] <Babs> i do like Joy Divison and I've seen the Happy Mondays play 6 times now and shook Bez's hand, does that count?
[14:05] <Babs> Johnny Marr refused to shake my hand at the same gig :-(
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> Is Bez still alive?
[14:05] <daveake> Bunch of plebs
[14:05] <daveake> (the cops, not the Moody Tuesdays)
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[14:05] <OH7HJ> Quite a balloon race on sky reaching towards Siberia. Seems to have two finalists...
[14:06] <Babs> fsphil - that liderrrally could be anything
[14:06] <Babs> Bez is still alive. he's like Keith Richards, will go for ever
[14:06] <Hix> Bez is legendary
[14:06] <Babs> Keith Richards: "People come up to me and say they had a massive night and don't remember anything that happened as a result"
[14:07] <Babs> "I don't remember *anything* that happened in the 1970s"
[14:07] <Babs> that is rock and roll
[14:07] <Hix> and I've just been told that the 3D printer downstairs needs to be used as they need to tune it so they can do stuff in-house. "So if you have any homebrew things, can you please do them on it so we can get stuff tuned and ready for project use" WIN!
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> hah
[14:07] <Hix> babs weren't you only in the 70's for 6 years?
[14:08] <Babs> Babs: "I don't remember anything from 1970 to 1977". I am 7/10ths keith Richards.
[14:08] <Hix> I fit that criteria too
[14:08] <Hix> ish
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[14:09] <LeoBodnar> I had them all (70s)
[14:09] <ed__> i had them none
[14:09] <Hix> I remember how to breathe, which I'm guessing i mastered in '77
[14:09] <ed__> and only caught the tail end of the 80s
[14:09] <LeoBodnar> YOu haven't missed much
[14:10] <deck_> Hi guys, i'm wondering if there is any guide some where to connect a ntx2 to a raspberry pi
[14:10] <Babs> away from a 1980s retrospective and back to HAB reality in one easy post
[14:11] <ed__> deck_, you connect it to the serial port, in the way most people have done it here
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[14:11] <ed__> follow the think linked here
[14:11] <ed__> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi_advanced
[14:11] <ed__> thing*
[14:12] <ed__> in general, the ukhas wiki has a lot in it
[14:12] <ed__> in general, you will never find it apart from through google
[14:12] <Hix> RTFW
[14:12] <Hix> should the wiki link not be in the topic?
[14:13] <ed__> sec
[14:13] <deck_> true, sorry I should've tried harder
[14:13] <deck_> thanks anyway :)
[14:13] <Hix> the RTFW was not aimed at you btw deck_
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[14:13] <Hix> it was a play on RTFM
[14:13] Nick change: ed__ -> eroomde
[14:13] <Hix> i sense a topic update coming
[14:13] <Hix> he has the power cloak on
[14:14] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[14:14] <Hix> that or I'm getting a kick :)
[14:14] Topic changed on #highaltitude by eroomde!ed@77.89.152.84: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, rockets etc), and always read the wiki! www.ukhas.org.uk
[14:15] <Hix> heh
[14:15] <eroomde> deck_, not aimed at you at all
[14:15] <Hix> ditto
[14:15] <eroomde> we should make more of an effort with promoting it
[14:15] <Hix> it is a really good resource, and I remember knowing nothing of it for the first few weeks on here
[14:15] <Babs> arf
[14:16] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[14:16] <Hix> still think the link should be in the topic tho ed
[14:16] <Hix> damn too later
[14:16] <eroomde> it is
[14:16] <Hix> *late
[14:16] <eroomde> www.ukhas.org.uk goes to the wiki
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[14:17] <mfa298> better wiki link for rpi is http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi
[14:17] <Hix> sorry - my bad there is no /start
[14:17] <fsphil> sites that automatically remove the www. annoy me :)
[14:17] <mfa298> the _advanced page has nasty things on it you might not want to try yet.
[14:17] <Babs> Sometimes i go for a walk around the wiki and it is like tutankhamun's tomb in HAB form. No one knows exactly what is in there and it keeps yielding new unexplained secrets.
[14:18] <Joel_re> Babs: thats the story for most wikis
[14:18] <Babs> i like all the projects from the cambridge dudes in 208/09
[14:18] <Joel_re> atleast the ones Ive worked on :p
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[14:18] <Joel_re> wikis tend to end up that way
[14:18] <Babs> *2008/09. Even Cambridge wasn't founded that early.
[14:18] <eroomde> yes
[14:19] <eroomde> i vaguely know what's in there as i predate the wiki
[14:19] <daveake> That was shortly before Steve started selling balloons
[14:19] <eroomde> but even i go there and rediscover stuff i'd forgotten we did
[14:19] <eroomde> bin-bag rogallo steerable parachutes
[14:20] <eroomde> a museum exhibit's worth of different cutdown mechanism
[14:20] <eroomde> incleading the famous Simon Stent knot that 'will slip open the second you get some tension on it', and thus detcach from the balloon
[14:20] <eroomde> which didn't
[14:21] <eroomde> rockoon obsessions
[14:21] <eroomde> altitude records that involved multiple balloons
[14:21] <eroomde> or 3kg balloons
[14:22] <eroomde> every flight was a bit crazy
[14:22] <eroomde> every flight computer was different from the last one, different GPSs, different radios, different modulations and protocols, lots of odd 'scientific' experiments
[14:22] <eroomde> bottles of port (space port [har har.])
[14:23] <adamgreig> how's that book of yours coming along then
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[14:23] <eroomde> it isn't
[14:24] <eroomde> i wrote like half achamper in a fit of enthusiasm
[14:24] <eroomde> half a champter
[14:24] <eroomde> it is time for a champers
[14:24] <Babs> novel, popular science or flick?
[14:24] <adamgreig> an history
[14:24] <eroomde> Burst! A Short History of High Altitude Ballooning in the UK
[14:24] <eroomde> basically ukhas 2005-2010
[14:24] <Babs> my mate boldly decided mid 20s to go to a 4 day week and write a book on the 5th day
[14:24] <eroomde> what we tried
[14:25] <Babs> within 4 weeks he was getting up on Friday at midday and playing on his playstation for 6 hours.
[14:25] <adamgreig> writing is hard
[14:25] <eroomde> as a lot of what gets proposed as new now has been tried before
[14:25] <eroomde> my friend took 2 months off to plan his wedding
[14:25] <adamgreig> wow
[14:25] <adamgreig> did it work?
[14:25] <eroomde> he went to ibiza, italy, vancouver, and played battlefield 3 almost incessantly
[14:26] <adamgreig> vancouver is lovely
[14:26] <eroomde> and left all the wedding planning to about the last minute
[14:26] <adamgreig> hah
[14:26] <Babs> arf
[14:26] <eroomde> the order of service at the wedding was testament to this
[14:26] <Babs> i outsourced my wedding planning to my wife and assigned myself "creative director" role
[14:27] <Babs> she appreciated that
[14:27] <eroomde> The Signing of the marriage license (organ recital: TBD. Witnesses: TBD - probably mothers)
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[14:27] <eroomde> see his gf/wife handed in her PhD thesis on fri
[14:27] <eroomde> and got married on sat
[14:27] <eroomde> which is why alex had to organise
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[14:27] <gonzo_> the groom only has two jobs. To turn up and say 'I do'
[14:28] <eroomde> presumably at the reception afterwards in response to the question: "Why pays to clean up all this mess?"
[14:29] <gonzo_> these days, the couple have probably been living togrether for years, so there is no need to hurry away early
[14:29] <gonzo_> so they probably ARE the mess
[14:30] <gonzo_> last wedding I went to, the groom was refusing to let us leave the bar till all the beers were gone
[14:37] <ve6ts> hehe, considering i don't drink i think i'd be there all night
[14:37] <fsphil> as long as he didn't say how they where made to disappear
[14:38] <ve6ts> ah, excellent i'll give them all to the girls in the bar (if there were any)
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[15:10] <schoppenhauer> hello. I know it is not directly related to balloon flights, but I need a camera that one could attatch to a water rocket. that is, it should be light, flat, and robust enough for a fall from ~50m. does anybody know such a thing?
[15:11] <schoppenhauer> should not be too expensive
[15:11] <schoppenhauer> and does not need to be too high-quality
[15:11] <schoppenhauer> merely a "toy"
[15:12] <eroomde> the chinese-made keyring video cameras could be just the thing
[15:12] <eroomde> the 808 ones
[15:12] <eroomde> eg http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/808HD-11-HD-DV-KeyChain-Lens-Camera-Cam-H-264-720P-New-/160595839562
[15:12] <eroomde> they're all over the internets
[15:12] <mfa298> one of the few times the cheap chinese cameras can be recommended!
[15:12] <eroomde> yep!
[15:12] <fsphil> I'm tempted to attach one to a firework
[15:13] <daveake> I've been tempted to set fire to one too
[15:13] Action: DL1SGP is tempted to attach one to a goat
[15:13] <fsphil> I bet
[15:13] <eroomde> we embedded one into the fin of a rocket
[15:13] <daveake> Instead I just remind UpuWork at appropriate points :)
[15:13] <adamgreig> ooh that sounds like it would have been a good video eroomde, did you put it online anywhere?
[15:14] <adamgreig> >___>
[15:14] <daveake> I'd like a radio camera that I can put on a heli and tx down to a laptop and then stream to batc
[15:14] <eroomde> that's extremely lolatron adamgreig
[15:15] <fsphil> 2.4ghz camera > receiver > composite > usb > ffmpeg > batc :)
[15:15] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/2012/04/martlet-1-hd-fin-camera/
[15:15] <daveake> are there small, well, very lightweight 2.4GHz cams?
[15:15] <fsphil> I put a 2.4ghz camera onto a little RC helicopter once -- it got to 20cm altitude then crashed into long grass
[15:15] <adamgreig> eroomde: :(
[15:15] <adamgreig> m2 is going to have lotsa cameras too
[15:15] <adamgreig> hopefully recovered ones
[15:15] <DL1SGP> daveake: would the FPV systems be an option?
[15:16] <mfa298> rpi and stream over wifi ?
[15:16] <eroomde> yes
[15:16] <eroomde> i highly commend single-stage as an excellent idea
[15:16] <daveake> mfa298 yes that's an option but a tad heavy
[15:16] <eroomde> i think complexity of design/test goes as the cube of number of statges
[15:16] <daveake> My aim of course is to stream a balloon launch from the air
[15:16] <adamgreig> hah
[15:16] <adamgreig> yes sounds about right
[15:16] <daveake> using someone who can actually fly a heli properly (not me)
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[15:16] <adamgreig> hence SSTO right
[15:16] <fsphil> don't ask me
[15:17] <eroomde> i wouldn't say ssto is simple either :)
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[15:17] <adamgreig> :P
[15:17] <eroomde> needs moar rocket science than big dumb boosters
[15:18] <schoppenhauer> ok
[15:18] <schoppenhauer> so this will probably also not break when they fall?
[15:18] <fsphil> it might. but they're really cheap
[15:19] <fsphil> water rocket landing shouldn't be too hard anyway
[15:20] <eroomde> yeah, the ballistic coefficient of an empty water rocket is probably not high enough for you to worry especially
[15:21] <fsphil> mmm.. water rocket for soft HAB payload landing
[15:21] <mfa298> if it's got a seperate memory card then that should survive even if the camera gets damaged
[15:23] <schoppenhauer> ok, these ones are really cheap http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mini-car-key-chain-808-DVR-Video-Recorder-Kamera-camera-Auto-Schlussel-versteckt-/230873310520?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder&hash=item35c11f2538
[15:25] <schoppenhauer> one could probably hang one of these on a normal helium party balloon ... the "poor man's" balloon flight
[15:25] <DL1SGP> yes schoppenhauer, they are :D
[15:25] <schoppenhauer> at least in germany, this would probably not even need an allowance
[15:26] <daveake> mfa298 Actually, looking at some not-too-expensive quadcopters, they'd easily carry a Pi/cam/AAAs
[15:26] <DL1SGP> schoppenhauer: as long as you stay under 500g payload weight and fly non flammable gas no prior permission is needed, however flight rules request you to have insurance coverage for any damage done by your airborne vehicle
[15:27] <mfa298> schoppenhauer: they have been used on proper HAB flights, but a number of them have been found to interferre with the gps (so not recommended for hab flights)
[15:27] <DL1SGP> there is stuff on the rules in Germany on the ukhas wiki
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[15:28] <schoppenhauer> well, I do not plan to use them. I wanted to start a real balloon flight this summer, but then my car broke and I had no money and time left -.-
[15:28] <schoppenhauer> I am not sure how much sense it makes to start a flight in winter.
[15:29] <schoppenhauer> does it make sense?
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[15:30] <eroomde> yes
[15:30] <DL1SGP> not as long as there is enough Gluehwein to survive the cold :)
[15:31] <DL1SGP> Hope your car and finances are fine again schoppenhauer, unexpected car breakdowns can be nasty showstoppers
[15:31] <Hix> daveake http://goo.gl/Bsovn or http://goo.gl/CwlVJn tip - give it 5 mins on each page and price drops
[15:32] <mfa298> quick googling for cameras I've mostly seen things which are bigger and more expensive than a pi+cam
[15:33] <fsphil> daveake: I've always wondered how tricky it would be to fly a pi+fcd++ on a quadcopter, as an rtty relay. for payloads that land in ackward terrain
[15:33] <daveake> Hix Yeah it's the streaming side that might be tricky. With a Pi Cam that's all easy.
[15:33] <fsphil> stream the fcd audio down via wifi
[15:33] <fsphil> decode on the ground
[15:33] <daveake> mfa298 Yeah Once I started seeing quads with GoPros hanging below I realised that weight might no be that big an issue :)
[15:33] <Hix> was going with fsphils method of 2.4 to base and stream from base
[15:34] <fsphil> there have been raspberry pis flown on quads
[15:34] <DL1SGP> there are a few quadcopter models that I would have used for such purpose, if they were not that expensive :D
[15:34] <fsphil> don't think they where streaming though
[15:34] <Hix> right time to fight the Friday eve M25. byeeeee
[15:34] <daveake> sure, and so was I, but I thing mfs298's might be the better/cheaper/easier option
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[15:36] <mfa298> Hix's links look like the other way to go, but needs an rx and then suitable capture on the pc.
[15:36] <daveake> exactly
[15:36] <mfa298> I've done some short range streaming over a wifi link from the pi - still needs some range testing.
[15:37] <fsphil> if the wifi adaptor didn't use so much power I'd leave one in for my next launch, stream the launch from the payload pov
[15:38] <daveake> Can the USB be disabled during flight?
[15:38] <Gadget-Mac> Don't forget on newer Pi you can turn the USB power off.
[15:38] <fsphil> there may be power saving options
[15:38] <fsphil> hmmm
[15:38] <fsphil> the A can't turn off USB power
[15:38] <mfa298> you could always make up a short usb cable with a mosfet on the 5v line.
[15:39] <fsphil> I wonder if just ifconfig'ing the interface off would work
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: no
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> but
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> you can configure the hub into suspend mode
[15:41] <fsphil> iwconfig eth0 power off
[15:41] <fsphil> there is no hub on the A
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> which drops the drain from USB and Ethernet to 0
[15:41] <fsphil> the USB is directly wired to the processor
[15:41] <Gadget-Mac> Easier method may be to put a FET into the USB +5v line and control with GPIO
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> it's an integrated hub chip and network chip
[15:41] <daveake> Yes it's the device that needs to be powered down
[15:41] <fsphil> the B has the hub/ethernet
[15:41] <fsphil> the A doesn't
[15:41] <SpeedEvil> there is an echo 0 >/sys/whatever
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> oh, right
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> misread back scroll
[15:42] <fsphil> I'll try that iwconfig command....
[15:42] <fsphil> I got 120ma without the wifi and without gps
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> you should still be able to put the usb device to sleep
[15:43] <fsphil> 185ma with wifi enabled and working
[15:43] <adamgreig> what if wifi can't connect to any networks and isn't txing
[15:43] <fsphil> I was thinking if having it in master mode
[15:43] <fsphil> if i can control the power
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> I've just been measuring my CPU power use, and got 12-36W - which seems about right.
[15:43] <fsphil> have it power up occasionally through the flight
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> With a deeply silly method.
[15:44] <fsphil> see if people can connect to it
[15:44] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: heating water? :P
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> Jam adjustable power supply into a 12V disc connector, and wind up the voltage by .5V
[15:44] <adamgreig> gross
[15:44] Nick change: Guest40816 -> nick_
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> Seems to be more or less 'right' anyway.
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> I was using it to verify the loads I need to make my PSU for it from 20-28V
[15:45] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: ping
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> yo
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: go ahead
[15:52] <Laurenceb> where are your lipo test plots?
[15:52] <Laurenceb> was looking for some example lipo charge curves thats all
[15:52] <fsphil> 160ma with /etc/init.d/network stop
[15:52] <Laurenceb> somewhere on your site iirc yuo had some plots?
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: what if you unplug the nic?
[15:52] Action: fsphil waits for the at command to bring networking back up...
[15:53] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: 120ma
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:53] <fsphil> hmm, network should be back by now
[15:54] <fsphil> at has failed me
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[15:56] <LeoBodnar> It was just a test Laurenceb http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/LiPo-testing.jpg
[15:56] <LeoBodnar> Wrong file, sorry http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/LiFePO4.png
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> this was LiFePo4
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> I can send you raw CSVs of a dozen batteries I have tested
[15:58] <Laurenceb> do you have a lipo graph on there?
[15:58] <Laurenceb> im trying to work out how much the termination curent changes capacity
[15:58] <Laurenceb> just designing some charger hardware atm
[15:59] <Laurenceb> thansk for the help
[15:59] <cm13g09> anyone here used nginx? random out of blue question?
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> about 5% I'd say
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> Let me check
[16:01] <Laurenceb> yeah looks like that on LiFePO4
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[16:04] <fsphil> can't seem to reduce its power any better
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[16:04] <fsphil> via software anyway
[16:05] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/LiPo190mAh.zip
[16:06] <LeoBodnar> Fields: seconds, Volts, Current_mA, mAh, mWh
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[16:10] <LeoBodnar> Looking at the charge curves it hits 4.2v at 181mAh capacity and when current drops to 0.1C it increases to 193mAh only
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> extra 6% capacity
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> maybe another 1% if you lat it taper of to 0.01C
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[16:14] <Astrobiologist> Repeater question: most repeaters are described something along the lines of frequency rx, tx, shift +-, but how do I know what tone system they use? That never seems to be given, at least not in things like the Repeater app
[16:15] <fsphil> Astrobiologist: http://www.ukrepeater.net/
[16:15] <fsphil> that'll have all the details
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[16:15] <Astrobiologist> Do you know any mobile apps that give this detail fsphil?
[16:16] <fsphil> don't, rarely use repeaters
[16:16] <Astrobiologist> So many lists seem to give everything except the tone type, I wondered if there was some accepted convention as to the tone used that I wasn't aware of
[16:16] <fsphil> seems fairly random from what I can see
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[16:18] <Astrobiologist> Hmmm wish they'd give it then! The same tone frequency could apply to different tone types, as far as I can see. The tone frequency is usually given, but not the type
[16:18] <fsphil> it'll be ctcss
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[16:18] <Astrobiologist> Fsphil why?
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Theres only the 1750Hz toneburst old style of the CTSS frequency
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> *or
[16:19] <fsphil> Astrobiologist: if they give a tone frequency then it'll be ctcss
[16:20] <fsphil> DCS is digital -- not sure if any repeaters use it
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> This page gives input outpur and CTSS all on thr same page http://www.ukrepeater.net/repeaterlist1.htm
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[16:23] <Astrobiologist> Sorry, lost my 3G signal there for a moment
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[16:25] <Astrobiologist> For the record, for tones my F7E can select DCS, CTCSS and one other tone type (I'll have to check the manual). The latter two have selectable frequencies
[16:25] <ONZ> Hi all!
[16:26] <DL1SGP> hi ONZ
[16:26] <ONZ> I have a questions..
[16:27] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: from memory it has DCS, CTCSS and Tone Burst
[16:27] <mfa298> AFAIK no repeaters use DCS
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[16:27] <mfa298> and Toneburst is just a 1750Hz tone,
[16:28] <mfa298> so if a tone frequency if given for a repeater it will be CCTSS
[16:28] <mfa298> you'll probably find there's an option for sending CTCSS and one for doing local squelch based on CTCSS
[16:29] <ONZ> What's happened with the high altitude weather-balloon after he crashed?
[16:29] <Astrobiologist> Mfa298 the wierd thing is that for "T", which is presumably toneburst (CT and DCS are the others), there is still a ctcss-like tone frequency to set (e.g 82.5hz)
[16:29] <DL1SGP> you mean the ones started by weather services ONZ?
[16:29] <mfa298> you'll need to send the CTCSS tone, using CTCSS for local squelch is either not required or optional - Some repeaters use it only on active use so you don't hear the regular ident
[16:30] <ONZ> Do anybody searching him?
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[16:30] <fsphil> which one ONZ?
[16:30] <mfa298> I think T is sending CTCSS - (CT is probably for local squelch unless you rx a CTCSS tone)
[16:31] <DL1SGP> ONZ: depends on where you are, in some countries weather service has chase teams to retrieve the payload, in other countries there are amateur chasers
[16:31] <DL1SGP> see http://radiosonde.eu for some info
[16:31] <Astrobiologist> Mfa298 confused now, have opened up repeaters with CT so far. Will check manual
[16:31] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: thanks
[16:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Astrobiologist,http://www.ukrepeater.net/access.htm
[16:34] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: looking at the repeaters I've got in memory it's just set to T
[16:35] <mfa298> I think CT will send the CTCSS tone and also use the rx'ed CTCSS tone for local squelch
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[16:38] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: let me know if you find anything interesting
[16:39] <ONZ> DL1SGP:Thanks for the answer. I'm in Russia, Moscow and want to look what hi's look.
[16:39] <Astrobiologist> Thanks mfa298, that makes sense I think, sometimes the rx LED lights up for a given repeater but it's squelched. When I check with the moni key, it's static. I only hear something when it's a true signal
[16:39] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: I've just been trying to see what the manual says and it's not that clear.
[16:39] <LeoBodnar> amazingly mAh on the way in is almost exactly mAh on the way out. So the battery looks like a variable capacitor in theory?
[16:40] <mfa298> however toneburst looks to be a menu setting (or pressing the call button in some setings)
[16:42] <Astrobiologist> Mfa298 I seem to have got it right the first time I tried it, but there are so many repeaters around that I couldn't open I wondered if I had the tones wrong
[16:43] <Astrobiologist> Will play more later, unfortunately have to go offline now
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[16:44] <DL1SGP> ONZ: I have not heard of radiosonde chasers there yet, but I guess you will find some good info on the link I gave you
[16:45] <mfa298> based on the info in the link from Geoff-G8DHE you should be good with the CT setting as repeaters should be transmitting the same CTCSS tone as they use for being opened up.
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[16:47] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, have you sorted your audio loopback for the SDR?
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[16:57] <DL7AD> any sign from sp3osj?
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[16:59] <OH7HJ> OMG! Back to my shack and again see a balloon make a quantum leap in deep east..! B-22 is doing a very respectable journey for a pico foil balloon..!
[17:02] <arko> woah
[17:02] <DL1SGP> hehe
[17:02] <arko> B21 came back!?
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[17:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> arko: daywise..
[17:03] <arko> i know russia has lots of hams
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[17:04] <arko> now they got reasons
[17:04] <OH7HJ> B-21 got frozen here in Finland - like anything and anybody do - And turned down south, but too late..!
[17:04] <arko> :)
[17:05] <OH7HJ> B-22 is traveling purposefully to east in direct line. It seems determined to see Ural, and even beyond...
[17:06] <arko> it's headed towards me
[17:06] <arko> if only :(
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[17:09] <OH7HJ> If the B22 decides to land before Japan, how can we rescue its payload..? ;(
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[17:10] <arko> no idea
[17:10] <arko> i think it should just fly to los angeles
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[17:11] <ve6ts> the B in B21, B22 should stand for bomber, not balloon :)
[17:11] <OH7HJ> Good to know you are there ready to catch it!
[17:11] <ve6ts> i'm ready to catch one in western canada
[17:12] <OH7HJ> If it were a bomber, would you still be ready to..?
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[17:14] <ve6ts> yup, ready!
[17:16] <OH7HJ> Be careful..! What kind of payload pico bombers could take? Micro explosives?
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[17:19] <LeoBodnar> did you mean maybe boomer?
[17:19] <DL7AD> at which time does the balloon transmit its log?
[17:20] <OH7HJ> A fresh fix from B-22 tells that it float steadily alt 7k6 m, only adjusting its course a little to NE.
[17:21] <x-f> after first transmission of an even UTC hour, iirc
[17:21] Nick change: wd8mnv_away -> wd8mnv
[17:22] <DL7AD> thx x-f
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[17:22] <x-f> so, in 50 minutes
[17:22] <x-f> np
[17:22] <OH7HJ> Whichever of the two, ve6ts seems to be on its new course.
[17:22] <x-f> 40 minutes*
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> It only transmits log during the day to avoid killing the batteries
[17:23] <DL7AD> :(
[17:23] <x-f> what is the "day" for it?
[17:23] <DL7AD> light?
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[17:27] <OH7HJ> Does it transmit log on 70 cm Domino mode only?
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:27] <DL7AD> OH7HJ: yes
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[17:28] <OH7HJ> OK. Just thought a curious way to send it. APRS network relays text messages, too.
[17:29] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Lunar_Lander
[17:32] <LeoBodnar> This was my first experiment with APRS - I am glad it sort of worked.
[17:39] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: not yet
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[17:48] <x-f> http://assets.amuniversal.com/819d6f40f980013015ef001dd8b71c47
[17:48] <x-f> (Calvin and Hobbes)
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[17:55] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: why?
[17:55] <cm13g09> are things going up this weekend?
[17:56] <malgar> what is Domino? is it a transmission protocol? Where can I read more about it?
[17:56] <malgar> ahh dominoEX!
[17:56] <malgar> ok
[17:56] <mfa298> malgar: it's a different way of sending data over the radio using multiple tones.
[17:57] <malgar> is it supported by dl-fldigi? Could I do it using arduino?
[17:57] <mfa298> it's supported by dl-fldigi
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[17:58] <mfa298> but harder to do with an arduino - you'll probably need an external dac
[17:58] <mfa298> and you ideally need a stable tx module (ntx2b should be good, the ntx2 probably wont be)
[18:00] <malgar> mfa298: I'm waiting two ntx2b from Upu :)
[18:00] <eroomde> you can use pwm + filter in the absence of a dac
[18:00] <eroomde> if you want
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[18:01] <mfa298> I had a feeling pwm didn't quite have enough resolution - although I've not done the sums myself.
[18:02] <eroomde> i thought the avr had 16-bit resolution ith one of its timers
[18:02] <malgar> mfa298: ok, probably I'll start my first balloon using the smple RTTY :)
[18:02] <eroomde> i thought...
[18:03] <mfa298> there could be althoguh maybe that's only on certain AVR's
[18:04] <mfa298> malgar: rtty is probably the easier thing to start with, although once you've got that working you could always play and see if Domino can be done.
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[18:04] <eroomde> 328, i'm pretty sure
[18:04] <malgar> another question: I would like to try dl-fldigi using a recorded rtty signal.. just as exercise waiting for ntx2b. Is this possible? do you have an easy recorded signal to send me?
[18:05] <mfa298> there's one on the wiki somewhere
[18:05] <eroomde> on the guide to listening to balloons
[18:05] <mfa298> malgar: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide#background links from here
[18:05] <malgar> and is it possible to try it using dl-fldigi with this "fake-realtime" signal?
[18:06] <eroomde> yes
[18:06] <mfa298> you can play that signal back and get dl-fldigi to decode.
[18:07] <malgar> let's try
[18:08] <ve6ts> malgar my first balloons used CW (morse code)
[18:09] <LeoBodnar> malgar, download fldigi and use it to TX into dl-fldigi
[18:09] <ve6ts> malgar i'm now moved onto field hell
[18:09] <ve6ts> malgar rtty is next, i wanna try many different modes
[18:12] <mfa298> I wonder if the issue for dominoex on avr/arduino is possibly needing two 16 bit timers, one to get the timing one to generate the pwm tone - thinking aloud here.
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> I have realised that B-22 has covered only about 15% or Russia's length.
[18:20] <ve6ts> LeoBodnar still that is a long ways
[18:21] <Upu> malgar I've been told they are being posted on Tuesday
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> mahoosive span of territiry
[18:23] <DL1SGP> have you posted a new prediction to its webpage yet Leo?
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[18:25] <malgar> Upu: perfect
[18:26] <daveake> That's a Radiometrix Tuesday
[18:26] <daveake> They take ISH to a new level for new products
[18:29] <Upu> yeah lol
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[18:30] <Laurenceb> arg
[18:30] Action: Laurenceb is stuck in shottingham
[18:30] <Laurenceb> road closures...
[18:30] <Laurenceb> im gunna get shot
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[18:34] <DL1SGP> I will rename it to shockingham then
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh sorry
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[18:47] <tweetBot> @daveake: Follow up on my #raspberrypi Chase Car computer http://t.co/ZA1QeFHOoq using a new GPS board #UKHAS
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[18:52] <LazyLeopard> daveake: The link on that page to the GPS addon board needs an edit...
[18:52] <daveake> ah ta
[18:53] <daveake> had a bit of an issue with the links
[18:53] <LazyLeopard> It's insisting on sticking your site name on the front... ;)
[18:53] <daveake> ho hum I'll fix it now
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[18:54] <Upu> :)
[18:54] <LazyLeopard> Sometimes WP is just plain strange... ;)
[18:55] <LazyLeopard> Chase computer display looks neat though. :)
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[18:58] <Upu> needs more gradient fill
[18:58] <daveake> Links fixed cheers LazyLeopard
[18:59] <daveake> Nah it has just the right amount :p
[18:59] <daveake> I was pleased with those little switches
[19:00] <daveake> Only cut my fingers onmce with the scalpel
[19:02] <Laurenceb> ooh B-22 updated
[19:02] <Laurenceb> new uk distance record
[19:03] <arko> nice!
[19:03] <Upu> by quite a few miles
[19:04] <Laurenceb> B-21 decent on the last few points?
[19:04] <Laurenceb> or is that manually uploaded data?
[19:04] <Upu> yeah we think it blew its valve out
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> No, looks like it burst
[19:04] <ve6ts> wow 22 is really getting out there that is spectactular, how powerfull is it's transmitter?
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> *no, means yes
[19:05] <Laurenceb> what was the free lift on B-21?
[19:05] <Upu> either that or it was shot down
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> 10mW
[19:05] <malgar> LeoBodnar: congratulation
[19:05] <Laurenceb> B-22 seems nice and stable
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> Well, the last solar battery reading was 0.7v
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> I have never seen it go above 0.65v
[19:05] <Laurenceb> ah
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> even in direct sunlight
[19:06] <Laurenceb> lol
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[19:06] <LeoBodnar> Aliens?
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> 4.5-ish
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> cheers malgar
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[19:08] <Laurenceb> yeah i bet its slightly too high
[19:08] <Laurenceb> im suprised it works at all
[19:08] <Upu> missile explosion
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> level of superpressure Laurenceb ?
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> WHy when I type "sup" and hit tab it does not auto-complete with "superpressure"? This is #highaltitude or what?
[19:10] Nick change: fsphil -> superpressure
[19:10] <superpressure> try now
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> good superpressure!
[19:10] <superpressure> much better
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> lol we need lots of fake users with popular terms
[19:11] Nick change: Upu -> XD
[19:11] <superpressure> who's gonna be "burst"?
[19:11] Nick change: LeoBodnar -> float
[19:11] <superpressure> naturally
[19:11] <XD> 20:11] -NickServ- This nickname is registered - really ?
[19:11] Nick change: XD -> Guest79111
[19:11] <superpressure> hah
[19:11] <Guest79111> pwned
[19:11] <float> lol
[19:11] <ve6ts> LeoBodnar thanks i have a simular output power, my range is usually about 40 km
[19:11] Nick change: Guest79111 -> Upu
[19:11] Nick change: superpressure -> fsphil
[19:12] <fsphil> normal service will now resume.. ish
[19:12] Nick change: float -> LeoBodnar
[19:12] <DL1SGP> that is fantast-ish news fsphil
[19:12] <arko> haha
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[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> ve6ts something is wrong then? What frequency are you talking about
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[19:27] <Upu> ping craag
[19:28] <cm13g09> Upu: he was last seen trying to get out of Soton
[19:28] <Upu> hah
[19:28] <Upu> ok
[19:28] <cm13g09> that was ~4 hours ago
[19:30] <eroomde> arko: moog did their first 60s burn today
[19:30] <eroomde> it was fun
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> evening arko and Upu
[19:30] <eroomde> there was a small crowd
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[19:31] <arko> eroomde: nice!
[19:32] <arko> they were the ones firing when i was there?
[19:32] <arko> who wants to get lunch?
[19:32] <arko> ah crap, wrong channel
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I am awaiting November 5
[19:32] <eroomde> yes
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> do you know why?
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> NASA related
[19:32] <arko> eroomde: nice :)
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> arko: me!
[19:33] <arko> LeoBodnar: fly over here
[19:33] <arko> i can wait 10hrs for lunch
[19:33] <Upu> sure arko turn the winds round
[19:33] <arko> haha
[19:33] <Upu> we'll send him
[19:33] <arko> lol
[19:33] <arko> if only
[19:33] <Upu> you
[19:33] <Upu> could send us one
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> we need to resurrect Concord
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:34] <arko> yeah, funny i was looking at that yesterday
[19:34] <Willdude123> PCBs not here yet, since postmen are lazy they won't turn up tomorrow. Will have to start considering remake :(
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I mean the Indian Mars Orbiter
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:34] <arko> NY-LHR in lik 3.5hrs
[19:34] <Upu> urban myth it made no money either
[19:35] <arko> it couldnt opperate for 20 years if it didnt
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> the concorde?
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[19:35] <Upu> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24629451
[19:35] <Upu> Virgin wanted to buy one
[19:35] <Upu> but BA said no
[19:35] <arko> oh yeah i saw that that
[19:35] <arko> crazy
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> 101% politics
[19:35] <arko> branson wants to go really really fast
[19:36] <arko> i need to convince eroomde to give me a skylon
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:37] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu21rM9ahkY
[19:38] <ve6ts> LeoBodnar i'm on 433mhz
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, COOL
[19:39] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7wmyx__l-s
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[19:39] <Upu> yeah thing about Concorde is it wasn't really short on power
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> WOW
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> drifting in the air!
[19:41] <arko> crosswind landings are fun
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> pretty awesome
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> why doesn't do Boeing or so another one?
[19:42] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: because it would cost billion and billions
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:43] <eroomde> and it uses a great deal of fuel per passenger
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> true
[19:44] <eroomde> and there probably isn't a market for it
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> arko, did the Government Shutdown influence JPL btw?
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[19:50] <LeoBodnar> ve6ts: almost all of us here in the UK are using 10mW on 434MHz and the reception limit is mostly limited only by horizon
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> DL7AD, and LeoBodnar, congrats on reaching Russia
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> cheers!
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> I think we are really go to go round the world
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> but we need more receivers along the road
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> russia, india and so on
[19:52] <malgar> :O
[19:52] <malgar> you are great guys!
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:53] <malgar> how do you alert receivers there? russian HAM mailing lists?
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> damn, just asked a person who studies Indology
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> he has no idea about HAM in India
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:54] <DL1SGP> there was somebody who plans to launch from India in here earlier
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> I once saw a website of a guy preparing a launch in India
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> and you say "earlier" like "earlier today"?
[19:55] <DL1SGP> yes
[19:55] <DL1SGP> like a few hours ago-ish
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> [09:52] <DL1SGP> Joel_re: where abouts in the world will you be flying?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> [09:53] <x-f> West India
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> [09:53] <DL1SGP> lovely :)
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> [09:54] <eroomde> is West India literally the west of india or do you mean what we (britihs) would call The West Idies, i.e. the carribean/bahamas?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but really Western India or the Caribbean?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> there are coordinates :P
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> 19.37°N and 72.79°E
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> north of Mumbai
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[20:00] <DL1SGP> :)
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[20:08] <malgar> How much time has lasted the contact with B-22?
[20:09] <malgar> from the last receiver
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[20:09] <chrisg7ogx> nice Balloon article in november issue of Radio User
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[20:22] <PB1DFT> any predictions for the next takeoffs?.
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[20:29] <fsphil> wonder if we'll hear from B-22 again
[20:30] <fsphil> it's a huge amount of empty ahead of it
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, yeah
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> like B-11 and B-12 which were listened for in America
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[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> wb LeoBodnar
[20:30] <fsphil> it's moving quite quickly
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> what is?
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[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> if B-22 will be the first HAB around the world
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:31] <fsphil> B-22, before contact was lost
[20:32] <fsphil> well not the first Lunar_Lander :)
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL7AD_
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, ?
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> who made it?
[20:32] <fsphil> the ghost balloons
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> Ah, yes about 100 km/h
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> *amateur HAB
[20:32] <fsphil> yea
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> I would say it does not seem that impossible anymore
[20:33] <fsphil> definitly
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> What is the formal definition of "around the world"?
[20:33] <fsphil> we know they can last long enough
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> crossing the start longitude
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[20:33] <LeoBodnar> It can go to the North Pole and do a 100m circle there
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[20:34] <LeoBodnar> I wouldn't call it proper "around the world"
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> FAI defined RTW to be a flight within the 60°N to 60°S area
[20:34] <fsphil> crossing the starting longitude by going around the arctic circle?
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> So what if it strays outside?
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> never was a problem "back then" due to all the teams trying to go across southern China
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> China always restricted airspace
[20:35] <OH7HJ> With solar cells, maybe better follow antarctic circle this time of year?
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> Disqualified! So you can't do RTW and the Arctic Challenge in one flight?! lol
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:41] <OH7HJ> Impressive flight with B-22 this far..! Nice people on the way to set up listening posts! Not too many Rx's on the way further, however...
[20:41] <ve6ts> LeoBodnar hehe
[20:41] <ve6ts> that would be called cheating
[20:41] <OH7HJ> What is the APRS freq in Asia..?
[20:41] <Upu> 144.800 all the way to china
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[20:41] <Upu> however
[20:42] <Upu> very little aprs coverage
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> I am a bit confused by APRS recordings somebody sent from the city where last UHF station was. They don't decode.
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> Something is wrong with either APRS on the tracker or the receiver.
[20:43] <DL1SGP> we need DL7AD to do liek Rust just further to deploy solar powered air-dropped APRS gateways in Russia :D
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> I need to figure out which
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> Can you have a look and see if you understand what is going on?
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> http://www.radioscanner.ru/files/download/file16197/144_800_no_squelch.wav
[20:44] <DL1SGP> I will analyse :)
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> http://www.radioscanner.ru/files/download/file16202/144_800_no_squelch_fm.wav
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> http://www.radioscanner.ru/files/download/file16203/144_800_no_squelch_pkt.wav
[20:45] <OH7HJ> Maybe listening with a bit offset freq?
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> Very confusing
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> This is FM OH7HJ
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> Looks like bit timing is off
[20:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> More likely the recording doesn't have sufficent bandwidth for the bandwidth needed.
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> the last one is in FT817 "PKT" mode
[20:46] <OH7HJ> Yes, FM is vulnerable to freq offset, too. It makes distortion quite like if overmodulated.
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> YOu mean discriminator loses lock?
[20:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes but unless the recorded from the packet output then it will be filtered in the rig, and possibly the audio bandwidth of the recorder itself.
[20:47] <OH7HJ> Also FM receivers with NFM filters are very picky about FM deviation.
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> I have used very modest max deviation - 2.6kHz only
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> And because there are no other independent confirmed recordings I am not sure whether to look for subtle timing bug in FW or ignore this altogether
[20:50] <OH7HJ> My old FT-290 needs be aligned within 1 kHz to copy FM packets. FT-817 is not too picky, unless it is several kHz off.
[20:53] <OH7HJ> The freq and deviation of your B-21 aprs Tx must be correct, because OH7BD igate could follow it up to and beyond radio horizon.
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[20:55] <DL1SGP> yeah the signals sound OK to me, it seems to have been something goat-ish on the RX side
[20:55] <OH7HJ> Not all Rx's on the way are necessarily quite frequency precise.
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[20:55] <LeoBodnar> It is very new code written from scratch in assembly on PIC24 processor so I fully expect it to have some subtle problems.
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> E.g. I can't see 1200Hz on the spectrogram
[20:57] <OH7HJ> That is enough to make it not readily decodable.
[20:58] <OH7HJ> There have been some issues with bad FM with some FT-817's. My friend has one of those.
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> There are peaks at 1090 1664 2300 Hz
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> Just trying to understand what is happeneing
[20:59] <OH7HJ> Too many peaks would indeed suggest distortion in Rx?
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[21:00] <LeoBodnar> We need more recordings or decodes.
[21:00] <OH7HJ> I see such multi peaks ones with the 'singing' sound APRS unit transmissions. However, the Tx is known to be OK so it must be bad reception.
[21:01] <OH7HJ> *some singing sound APRS units*
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> Tx was known to be OK over western europe and moscow but unfortunately not 100% sure if it still is
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[21:03] <LeoBodnar> So if we don't get any more sightings or recordings I might as well start investigate now
[21:04] <OH7HJ> Yes, it might transmit distorted tone packets when both in cold and when battery voltage is dropping in the evening?
[21:05] <OH7HJ> The last packets from most APRS units just prior to battery eptying are usually distorted and not decodable.
[21:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Have you not got a spare unit you could check its performance on low batteries with ?
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[21:11] <LeoBodnar> This might actually be a clue. It was night time and battery was getting low.
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> Good transmissions over Moscow were during the daytime
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[21:11] <LeoBodnar> when the solar panels are adequately powering the payload
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[21:37] <[1]chrisstubbs> So apparently replacing my network cable took my broadband speed from 2.5mb to 17 :D
[21:37] <[1]chrisstubbs> easy fix
[21:37] <adamgreig> wow, nice
[21:37] <adamgreig> maybe I should try a new cable, definitely not getting the full rated speed
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[21:37] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> i thought all my cheap bootsale network hardware was creating a bottleneck, but no. crappy cable
[21:38] <adamgreig> it says "gigabit" but I'm only getting 700 megabit :/
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[21:43] <mfa298> I've seen some very crappy cable manage 100mbit ethernet
[21:43] <mikestir> iirc 10/100 is specced to work on CAT3, which is normal phone cable
[21:44] <mfa298> from memory cat3 isn't specced for 100bit
[21:44] <mikestir> might be just 10 then
[21:44] <mfa298> but that's the crappy cable I've seen do 100mbit, with a cable coupler in the middle
[21:47] <chrisstubbs> Yeah this old stuff wasnt even twisted pair
[21:47] <mfa298> it's amazing how much you can push networking things beyond their spec
[21:47] <mfa298> not twisted pair at all - eek
[21:47] <chrisstubbs> it has cat5e written on the side... Does that not define that it should be twisted pair...
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> DSL - over cable specced for 3.5KHz
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Running at MHz.
[21:48] <mfa298> pretty sure for it to be cat5e the pairs should be twisted.
[21:49] <mfa298> and cat5e should be good for 1GbE
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[21:50] <adamgreig> ADSL2+ is insane
[21:50] <adamgreig> though I think 56k dialup modems were cleverer really
[21:50] <adamgreig> or the 33k ones before that literally just used voice coding in a 3kHz channel
[21:50] <adamgreig> mental
[21:50] Action: mfa298 waits for the local exchange to reach ADSL2
[21:52] <mikestir> when our local exchange got "upgraded" my previously very stable 8 meg ADSL1 went briefly to 12 meg and then spent most of its time at 4
[21:52] <mikestir> so I wouldn't wish too hard
[21:52] <mikestir> I ended up going to cable
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[21:54] <mfa298> hopefully I'm close enough it would be stable at a faster speed.
[21:55] <mfa298> and it's small enough that hopefully contention won't be too bad (I've got the full 8Mbit pretty much all the time)
[21:56] <mfa298> downside is the FTTC date keeps getting bumped by 3 months.
[21:56] <mikestir> the problem seemed to be pretty common - minor line noise would cause the line management software to keep ramping up the target SNR when it wasn't really necessary
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[21:57] <chrisstubbs> I dont even have a C for them to FTT to here :P
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> direct line to the excange :S
[21:58] <mikestir> I've noticed round here that bt has been replacing some of the poles with new ones that feature a little capped tube at the bottom
[21:58] <mikestir> I wonder if that's for blowing FTTH
[21:59] <mikestir> that would be nice
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[21:59] <mfa298> wow, that would be impressive if they're doing fibre sensibly.
[22:00] <mikestir> they've already done FTTC although the cabinets seem to be very far apart
[22:00] <mfa298> although if they're running fibre to the cab/post then putting in the infra for blown fibre would make sense
[22:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: what is very far?
[22:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: how long is far..
[22:02] <mikestir> maybe a mile
[22:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: for how many buildings/apartments?
[22:02] <mikestir> in other areas nearby they are a lot closer together
[22:03] <mikestir> typical suburban area
[22:03] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:04] <mikestir> Reb-SM3ULC: e.g. our line is about 900m long, which is a long way down the slope for VSDL2+ performance
[22:05] <mikestir> VDSL*
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> Evening jcoxon
[22:05] <mfa298> 900m probably gets me fairly close to the exchange :D
[22:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: was thinking fiber...
[22:05] <mfa298> evening jcoxon
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[22:06] Action: mfa298 curses that you can't tab complete common words like evening.
[22:06] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC|Away
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[22:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> and my brain is slow... FTTC != FTTH which is being built around here
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[22:07] <mfa298> FTTC is fibre to the cabinet, FTTH/FTTP is Fibre to the Home/Premises
[22:08] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, that seems to happen a lot
[22:08] <mfa298> in general most of the UK is moving towards FTTC, but FTTH is becoming available if you pay for it.
[22:08] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: about the same for me here. crap cable and overheated station makes my adsl drop up to 100 times on a summerday..
[22:08] <mikestir> I get annoyed when the shell fails to tab complete the names of files that don't yet exist
[22:08] <mikestir> I'm waiting for a version of bash with built in mind reading
[22:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> mfa298: exactly.. been doing too much ftth-planning..
[22:09] <mikestir> Reb-SM3ULC: I think part of the trouble I had is that I am maybe a mile or so from a medium wave broadcast transmitter
[22:10] <mfa298> mikestir: tab completion in bash is getting more interesting as it starts to know about commands. Was a bit weird the first time I saw that happen
[22:10] <mikestir> you could clearly see the unused bins in the spectrum if you got the router to dump that data
[22:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: oh. your cables in the airs or in the ground?
[22:10] <mikestir> in the air from the house to the road then underground
[22:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: same for me, but no big transmitter here...
[22:21] <mikestir> anyone fancy a guess at what the dark straight line in this image from WGGS1 is? http://goo.gl/4mkXOO
[22:24] <arko> http://www.vicespy.com/world-view-enterprises/
[22:27] <gonzo_> low risk due to the numerous amounts of times similar balloons have climbed to altitudes..... hmmm, so a pressurised capsule is low risk?
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[22:29] <mikestir> and presumably the descent will be a bit of a white-knuckle ride until it gets back into some air
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[22:30] <gonzo_> the rim of space. 20miles, whoch is only 70 miles short of being in space.... Bit of advretising BS there?
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[22:31] <gonzo_> I'm normally omnly 100kms from actually being in space, right now
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[22:35] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: 198khz is quite obvious in my router.
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[22:38] Action: mfa298 should probably look to see what interesting stats I can get from the adsl router
[22:38] <mikestir> SpeedEvil: better not get them to turn it off though - might trigger nuclear war
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[22:47] <Laurenceb_> haha
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsU8fRvTeCI
[22:48] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: I missed B-22 due to having gone to sleep but just thought to grep my APRS log http://paste.debian.net/61735/
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> Thank you db_g6gzh I will save a link
[22:56] <arko> i plan on coming to the uk on B-99
[22:56] <arko> sometime next week
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[22:56] <Laurenceb_> we need some form of long range comms
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[22:56] <Laurenceb_> or someone in russia with a plane
[22:57] <arko> too bad sat comm is so heady
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[22:57] <arko> heavy*
[22:57] <arko> LeoBodnar: whats the predicted path of B-22?
[22:58] <craag> Hmm, has anyone tried GSM from a pico?
[22:58] <arko> if there is a time window it will be near california I'll climb a mountain with my radio gear
[22:59] <arko> probably setup on top of mount disappointment
[22:59] <arko> which hopefully is not forshadowing
[22:59] <craag> haha
[22:59] <craag> You doing a flight tomorrow arko?
[22:59] <arko> nah
[22:59] <arko> delayed to nov 9
[23:00] <arko> i should update the website actually
[23:00] <craag> :(
[23:00] <arko> the payload is almost ready
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> arko, cool
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> good luck!
[23:02] <arko> danke
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> arko: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/184425_trj001.gif
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[23:04] <LeoBodnar> we need a receiver on the pole
[23:05] <arko> awe damn it
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> arko, did you get my earlier text on the Indian Mars orbiter?
[23:06] <arko> i dont think so
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> I said I am looking forward to this launch on Nov. 5
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> and I asked if JPL was closed on the Shutdown too?
[23:11] <arko> oh no, it wasn't
[23:11] <arko> jpl is caltech contracting to nasa
[23:11] <arko> we were ok
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[23:20] <craag> Does anyone have a screenshot of one of Leo's DominoEX payloads decoding that I could use in my talk tomorrow?
[23:23] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE has a few I think. Do you want the dl-fldigi screenshot?
[23:24] <craag> Yeah
[23:24] <craag> Thanks, I'll take a look on his site.
[23:24] <Maxell> craag: http://i.imgur.com/rJ686Ux.png
[23:24] <craag> perfect malgar !
[23:24] <craag> Is it ok if I crop out the fldigi bit and use it?
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> Haha Maxell what the heck "S" before the checksum means? I can't remember :D
[23:26] <Maxell> craag: or http://i.imgur.com/HTUmR7C.png
[23:26] <Maxell> :p
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> Some status of something :D
[23:27] <Maxell> That B-6 also used dl-fldigi's status window
[23:27] <craag> Maxell: THanks, I'll use the first one as it demonstrates working at low snr
[23:29] <Maxell> craag: http://i.imgur.com/TjGlRMw.png
[23:29] <Maxell> Super strong signals :P
[23:31] <Maxell> Oh, thats all...
[23:31] <craag> Thanks a lot, they'll do perfectly.
[23:31] <craag> :)
[23:31] <Maxell> Credit: "RevSpace"
[23:31] <Maxell> We have some 430 MHz colinear with HABamp
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> hey craag
[23:34] <craag> Maxell: Will do.
[23:34] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander
[23:34] <craag> I'm not finishing my slides 9.5 hours before my talk I swear :P
[23:34] <craag> *10.5
[23:35] <PB0NER> B12?
[23:36] <PB0NER> Maxell: I have my m2 X yagi's! (not installed yet) need to pain my Rotor first
[23:37] <PB0NER> paint
[23:38] <PB0NER> with many thanks to pb0ahx!
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[23:40] <Maxell> wut
[23:40] <Maxell> more antennas
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 26 2013