highaltitude.log.20131023

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[05:09] <Elwell> our new computer room was supposed to be hepa (3?) cleaned before handover, including underfloor
[05:10] <Elwell> so I lifted a few tiles off after and scooped up the swarf from tile legs with the sand ....
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[07:27] <DL1SGP1> good morning
[07:27] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
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[07:54] <tweetBot> @M0TFC: We have started a High Altitude Balloon project. Interested in hearing from others about their experiences. #hamr #ukhas
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[08:01] <fsphil> DON'T DO IT!!!!
[08:01] <fsphil> you'll get addicted
[08:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL
[08:02] <fsphil> and spend hours looking up into trees
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[08:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> Stiff neck....
[08:04] <fsphil> haven't done a proper launch and chase in ages
[08:04] <daveake> and getting wet in the rain
[08:04] <daveake> (or watching someone else get wet)
[08:05] <fsphil> hands freezing while trying to launch while snowing
[08:05] <Steve_G0TDJ> I was just getting over that daveake :D
[08:05] <fsphil> lol
[08:05] <fsphil> where you streaming from the Pi daveake?
[08:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> He was
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[08:07] <Steve_G0TDJ> Wasn't set to record though
[08:07] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good morning BTW - I was on the phone :-)
[08:07] <daveake> No I streamed from my netbook
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[08:07] <daveake> Didn't have the Pi with me (it wasn't in a case then)
[08:08] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[08:08] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh, sorry, that's trying to concentrate on the phone call
[08:08] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[08:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Leo
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[08:15] <Steve_G0TDJ> 'Morning Andy
[08:15] <Andrew_M6GTG> Morning Steve
[08:16] <Hix> dumb python question of the day. why would you use escape characters instead of """?
[08:16] <fsphil> "\"" ?
[08:18] <daveake> easier to read? I find multiple quotes annoying to get right
[08:20] <fsphil> VB uses " to escape an ". enough reason not to encourage it :)
[08:20] <daveake> As if we needed more :)
[08:20] <daveake> sorry, I mean, as if we need more reasons to not use VB
[08:21] <fsphil> everyone should have as many reasons not to use VB as possible :)
[08:22] <DL1SGP> VB ---> Viscously Bad :D
[08:23] <fsphil> Virtually Broken
[08:23] <mfa298> only virtually ?
[08:23] <mfa298> Very Broken
[08:24] <fsphil> sadly it does allow a program to be written, compiled and run
[08:24] <fsphil> so not compltely broken
[08:26] <mfa298> last time I used it (around VB5) that was dependant on your program.
[08:27] <mfa298> I seem to recall there were a lot of things you couldn't do.
[08:27] <mfa298> I've not touched it since those days so it's possible it's improved.
[08:28] <Hix> sorry, work interlude. I was referring to """that's what i meant""" as opposed to "That\'s what I meant"
[08:29] <fsphil> you don't have to escape an ' inside an "" string
[08:30] <fsphil> """ in python is for multi-line strings
[08:30] <fsphil> like this"""
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[08:33] <Smrtz> Hola, anyone active here and can talk about antennas?
[08:33] <Hix> sure, the main crux of the q was why not just use it all the time instead of \' or anything else even in a single sline string
[08:33] <Smrtz> I'm trying to figure out dB in terms of antennas. When you use circular polarization, you get 3dBi loss, right? Is that dBi as in gain, as in directional?
[08:34] <fsphil> """this is a bit ugly"""
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[08:44] <Andrew_M6GTG> Smrtz: are you referring to when you use a circular polarised antenna to receive a linear polarised signal and vice-versa? If so I believe it is a 3dB loss in signal strength
[08:45] <mfa298> the antenna will have some gain measured in dB which will be related to how directional it is.
[08:45] <mfa298> but there's also loss if you're using a different polarisation between the tx and rx
[08:46] <mfa298> 3dB sounds familar for linear (vertical/horizontal) polarisation to circular polarisation
[08:47] <mfa298> going from Horizontal to vertical polarisation is a much higher loss (20-30dB)
[08:47] <Smrtz> Ahh, that's what I thought. Thanks.
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[08:49] <mfa298> going from Horizontal to vertical polarisation is a much higher loss (20-30dB)
[08:49] <mfa298> hmmm, that's not what I typed
[08:50] <mfa298> I've not seen figures but I suspect going from one form of circular polarisation to the other direction between tx and rx will also have a high loss.
[08:50] <mfa298> that's what I'd meant to say just now (rather than repeating myself)
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[08:56] <nats`> hi
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[09:00] <PE0SAT> Here some info regarding Antenna and polarisation: http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html
[09:00] <Smrtz> Thanks PE0SAT
[09:00] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[09:00] <gonzo_> if you have a linear tx antenna and a circ rx, you will not lose any signal
[09:01] <gonzo_> if you tx with circ, and rx linear, then the linear rx ant will miss half of the power
[09:02] <Smrtz> gonzo_: Hmm, that changes my plan...
[09:02] <gonzo_> (as you can resolve a circular signal into horizontal and vertical components. And the linear ant will just receive one or the other)
[09:02] <Smrtz> I thought both the tx and rx needed to be the same polirization...
[09:02] <PE0SAT> For optimum result they should be
[09:03] <gonzo_> you can generate circular by using two linear antennas, one H and one V. That probably makes it easier to visualise
[09:03] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: So that table on the site you sent me shows dB loss for both TX and RX ends?
[09:04] <mfa298> I'd imagine for a linear tx and circ rx whilst you should get all the signal you're not using the antenna to it's full potential
[09:04] <PE0SAT> Smrtz: Yes the differences are in dB
[09:04] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: thanks.
[09:05] <PE0SAT> Here is a Youtube movie where somebody is testing Circulair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvC28YCnSok
[09:07] <PE0SAT> In this case the satellite TX is Cir.
[09:07] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: and he's switching between CW and CCW.
[09:07] <PE0SAT> Yes he is
[09:11] <PE0SAT> Smrtz: are you thinking of using Cirulair on a balloon flight?
[09:12] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: Not really, I'm just trying to learn more about it.
[09:12] <PE0SAT> Nice
[09:12] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: Yeah, I wish I knew more about antenna theory, so I'm trying to learn, but the more I learn the more it just seems like magic....
[09:13] <PE0SAT> Keep in mind that the pattern is different between coming towards you and going away from you
[09:13] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: So would I want CW towards me, and CCW away?
[09:14] <PE0SAT> For example
[09:15] <Smrtz> For example I'd want that? Or you're still typing the example?
[09:15] <PE0SAT> Try to visualise something that is RHCP coming towards you. When passed you is seems that is is LHCP
[09:16] <Smrtz> PE0SAT: yeah. I get that.
[09:16] <gonzo_> mfa298, that's the case as I understand it. Though using circ RX for a linear signal can be useful for a spinning signal, like a satellite. As it can help avoid nulls
[09:16] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[09:17] <Smrtz> Hmm, I still don't get whether I'd want CCW mixed with CW or not.
[09:18] <PE0SAT> No, just one pattern. Maybe if you have uplink and downlink that you would consider both.
[09:19] <Smrtz> Well, back to balloons, If I've got CW on the Tx in the balloon, would that be an uplink and downlink?
[09:19] <PE0SAT> Downlink
[09:19] <gonzo_> if you think of the traditional drawing of a linear antenna, that woul will see in all the books, with the signal sinusou snaking out from the antenna in the plane of the antenna. (with is just a snapshot in time.)
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[09:19] <gonzo_> with a circular signal, thimng of it like a corkscrew or spring,
[09:19] <gonzo_> eminating from the antenna
[09:20] <Smrtz> gonzo_: I get that, but I can't visualize if I'd get more overlap with a CW omni RX, and a CCW directional TX, for example...
[09:20] <Smrtz> Does that make since?
[09:22] <gonzo_> if you have circular pol at bothe ends, they have to match. So ccw-ccw or cw-cw. If you mix the sense then you will get vert little signal
[09:22] <Smrtz> OK. That makes since.
[09:23] <Smrtz> I was just thinking, ehh, I don't know, it just made sense in my head.... Thanks you guys...
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[09:23] <PE0SAT> There is 30dB loss between opposite signals, keep that in mind. Vert - Hort and LHCP - RHCP
[09:24] <Hix> Smrtz bit of a download but here you go https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0mn4gzqpvjku2dh/jfuPz-y7X-
[09:24] <Hix> ARRL Antenna book
[09:24] <PE0SAT> Hix: Nice
[09:25] <Smrtz> Hix: DLing now. Thanks.
[09:25] <Hix> ;)
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[09:25] <gonzo_> as I said earlier, visualise it but splitting circular into it's H and V components. And using separate antennas to transmit each. Then you can see whete the signal is going.
[09:26] <Smrtz> gonzo_: good advice. Thanks.
[09:26] <Smrtz> Hix: got it.
[09:26] <gonzo_> (that is visualise it as using separeate antennas, not actually do that!)
[09:27] <Hix> smtrz - wish i had a comparable download speed :/
[09:27] <Smrtz> Hix: being at university helps.
[09:27] <Hix> heh
[09:27] <PE0SAT> Hix: is it a recent version?
[09:28] <Hix> pretty recent afaik
[09:28] <Hix> 21st ed 2007
[09:29] <PE0SAT> I'll also have a look at it, thanks for sharing
[09:29] <Hix> nps
[09:29] <gonzo_> I would suggest that circular polarisation is not going to be of any benifit for a balloon though. Vertical linear is optimum
[09:30] <PE0SAT> My paper version is falling apart
[09:30] <Smrtz> gonzo_: I know, but I still want to learn. Knowledge is Power!
[09:30] <PE0SAT> I would agree
[09:31] <gonzo_> Agree. But on a balloon, CP is extra complication/weight/directionality that could hane a -ve impact on your flight
[09:33] <nats`> "Knowledge is Power!" <= Many years I didn't read this sentence on an IRC channel :D
[09:33] <Smrtz> nats`: Lol, I'm glad you liked it.
[09:34] <Smrtz> haha.
[09:34] <gonzo_> if you want a graphical tutorial on antennas, there was an exelent demo by Dud Charman. There is a video of it (not high quality thiough) on the batc site
[09:34] <gonzo_> http://www.batc.tv/vod/dud_charman.flv
[09:35] Action: Hix wonders if the purchaseing of exotic parts for the preparation of Stabilotron® has ended up with a trip to guantanamo
[09:35] <gonzo_> what's has arrived? An orange jump suit with your name on?
[09:36] <Hix> Babs - I was referring to
[09:37] <Smrtz> gonzo_: watching it now.
[09:39] <gonzo_> the intro is a bit cheesy, but the content is excellent
[09:40] <Smrtz> I wish it had subtitles.
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[09:45] <gonzo_> from mem, the audio qual was not good
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[09:56] <Steve_G0TDJ> ping UpuWork
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[10:04] <Smrtz> gonzo_: Thanks for this video, it also explains phases really well.
[10:07] <gonzo_> that was a very populat demo. aparentkly he used to also get invited into uni's etc to give the show.
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[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[10:26] Action: mfa298 checks clock - yup still morning
[10:27] <wd8mnv> wee hours here
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[10:27] <Hix> trying to run learnpythonthehardway using cygwin but when it comes to raw_input() it just falls over. Do i need to invoke anything?
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13> for me, raw_input() never worked with Python 3.3; it only worked on 2.7
[10:28] <Hix> im not on 3 afaik
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[10:29] <Hix> Python 2.7.5 :: Anaconda 1.7.0 (64-bit)
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> should be ok
[10:30] <adamgreig> Hix: that's a really weird thing to fall over
[10:30] <adamgreig> how's it failing?
[10:31] <mfa298> google doesn't seem to say much (apart from a bug report about raw_input and cygwin from 2002 - which you'd hope is fixed by now)
[10:31] <Hix> just hangs with no output
[10:31] <adamgreig> code or interactive shell?
[10:31] <adamgreig> script*
[10:32] <Hix> open cygwin nav to /home/hix then python ex11.py
[10:32] <adamgreig> what's the contents of ex11.py?
[10:32] <mfa298> without knowing much about cygwin/python could it be doing something like C getchar where the shell is buffering data until you hit enter
[10:32] <Hix> everthing else has been fine
[10:32] <Hix> hmm lemme see
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[10:34] <Joel_re> hey has anyone use a cheap phone to send out gps coordinates
[10:34] <Joel_re> by hooking to its uart lines
[10:34] <Joel_re> the pads behind the battery
[10:34] <Hix> hmm, yes hitting return makes things progress good call mfa298 something to look for now
[10:35] <mfa298> sounds similar to an issue ibanezmatt13 and myself had with a simple bit of C code, the code itelf was working but the shell/OS was buffering data rather than sending it to the application.
[10:35] <mfa298> not sure of the fix for windows
[10:35] <adamgreig> raw_input always requires you to press enter
[10:36] <adamgreig> it takes a whole line at a time
[10:36] <adamgreig> oh--
[10:36] <adamgreig> but it should echo what you type as you type it, admittedly
[10:36] <Hix> strange thing is the propt line is print "How old are you?",
[10:36] <Hix> age = raw_input()
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> isn't it. age = raw_input("How old are you?")
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> ?/
[10:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure it is
[10:37] <adamgreig> either is fine
[10:37] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[10:37] <adamgreig> the former will put a space after the ?, the latter won't. but you could just add a space.
[10:37] <Hix> it doesn't print the question but stores the value i enter, then the sentence that it contructs at the end is fine
[10:37] <adamgreig> otherwise identical
[10:37] <Hix> not according to http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/ex11.html ibanezmatt13
[10:37] <adamgreig> Hix: so the comma at the end of the print line tells it to not print a newline
[10:38] <adamgreig> which is probably causing it to not get flushed to your shell
[10:38] <adamgreig> and thus not appear
[10:38] <Hix> hmm lemme try
[10:38] <adamgreig> the same problem is likely to happen if you put the prompt inside raw_input()
[10:38] <adamgreig> you need to figure out why it's not flushing
[10:38] <adamgreig> or you can: import sys; sys.stdout.flush()
[10:38] <adamgreig> but that's not a great way forward
[10:39] <Hix> nope removing the comma doesn't fix it
[10:40] <Hix> works fine in notebook but I was trying to follow the principles of lpthw
[10:40] <Hix> so n++ and cygwin
[10:40] <Hix> looks like it really is the hard way with cygwin
[10:41] <adamgreig> that sounds like a weird and irritating problem that i'm surprised isn't fixed
[10:41] <adamgreig> and/or an issue with your specific setup
[10:41] <mfa298> you need to get a pi to stick behind the monitor - or find a way of ssh'ing into something
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[10:43] <Hix> ssh into the xubuntu box is probably going to be the easiest way with two windows, gvim and terminal to run things
[10:44] <Hix> xming to the resue :D
[10:45] <mfa298> just learn to use vim without the g bit
[10:45] <Smrtz> Use git bash, rather than putty or something from the windows box.
[10:46] <Hix> I'm at work trying to be covert, vim sticks out like a sore thumb
[10:46] <Laurenceb> arg
[10:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1666651.pdf
[10:46] <Laurenceb> this thing is junk
[10:46] <Smrtz> Hix: Ahh, then don't use gitbash...
[10:48] <Hix> :D
[10:48] <Hix> notebook is great, just trying to do it simply so when it gets more advanced I don't run into some other stupid problem
[10:49] <Laurenceb> this lipo just discharged to 1.5v
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> with protection?
[10:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:50] <Laurenceb> supposedly
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> eww
[10:51] <Laurenceb> going to have to go back to Varta polyflex
[10:51] <Laurenceb> can't trust these things for CE marked devices :-/
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[10:57] <jphoglund> doesn't CE stand for China Export? :)
[10:57] <Laurenceb> heh
[10:58] <Hix> contains excretum
[10:58] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[10:59] <jphoglund> haha
[11:00] <fsphil> Could Explode
[11:00] <Laurenceb> true in this case
[11:00] <fsphil> applies to their PSUs too
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[11:02] <Hix> "Semper in merda sumus; altitudo solum variat."
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[11:04] <fsphil> language
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[12:11] <nassau> hi
[12:11] <fsphil> afternoon
[12:11] <nassau> not used this IRC method to any extent before... testing this out
[12:12] <fsphil> you've passed the test :)
[12:12] <nassau> helloe
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[12:12] <SpeedEvil> hello
[12:12] <DL1SGP> hi all
[12:12] <nassau> Not sure if this is a relevant forum for the following question but it does relate to HAB
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[12:12] <nassau> ...does anyone here have an amateur radio license/
[12:13] <fsphil> a fair few of us do
[12:13] <nassau> cos I have a radio for HF listening, etc. and have wanted to get onto the ladder with a foundation license
[12:14] <nassau> but my local club runs a class once a decade (it woudl seem)
[12:14] <fsphil> hah
[12:14] <fsphil> where abouts in the world are you?
[12:14] <nassau> UK
[12:14] <nassau> Croydo
[12:14] <nassau> Croydon
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[12:16] <fsphil> the london hackspace might be doing one sometime
[12:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.b3tards.com/u/4f3e520a1ba01b78eff9/tesco_star_trek.jpg
[12:18] <fsphil> not sure what clubs there are in the area
[12:19] <fsphil> sometimes a uni or collage will run the course
[12:21] <nassau> I missed the UKHAB conference in Sept anf there were exams there :-(
[12:21] <mattbrejza> tried sutton and cheam?
[12:21] <mattbrejza> 'We are holding our next Foundation licence course and examination in November. The dates are Saturday
[12:21] <mattbrejza> 9th November, Sunday 10th November and Saturday 16th November. The training course will be over the
[12:22] <mattbrejza> first two days followed on the second Saturday by revision in the morning and the examination in the
[12:22] <mattbrejza> afternoon. The application forms are available from Derek G3WHK and must be returned to him by Friday
[12:22] <mattbrejza> 18th October.
[12:22] <mattbrejza> '
[12:22] <mattbrejza> maybe not all that text was needed
[12:22] <nassau> sweet!
[12:22] <mattbrejza> might want to make a quick call to that bloke
[12:22] <nassau> I will
[12:23] <DL1SGP> OMG Tesco Star Trek invading Maryland
[12:24] <mattbrejza> also coulsdon, crystal palace, dorking and district, echelford, surrey, wimbledon
[12:24] <mattbrejza> seems to be lots around
[12:28] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Zhitomirskiy#Death
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[12:34] <nassau> yes, I was in touch wiht Crystal Palace, but (understandably perhaps) they wait for 7-8 candidates, then run the course
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[12:36] <mfa298> in theory if you're technically minded you only have to do the practical bits and the exam. But not everywhere will accept people just for the practical and exam.
[12:40] <nassau> Thanks for the Sutton and Cheam info.I've emailed them now to request a place. thansk"
[12:40] <mattbrejza> np
[12:40] <mattbrejza> did you email them in general or the person running it?
[12:41] <nassau> I used training@scrs.org.uk.
[12:41] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[12:41] <mattbrejza> i also pm'ed you the phone number of the person running it, might get a faster response
[12:41] <nassau> what is the contact details for G3WHK? I cannot see that reference on their website
[12:42] <nassau> ahh found it
[12:42] <nassau> a chap called Derek Poulter
[12:42] <nassau> will email him too
[12:42] <nassau> cover all the bases
[12:42] <mattbrejza> i would probably phone though
[12:43] <nassau> no tel number
[12:43] <nassau> just emaisl
[12:43] <mattbrejza> see pm
[12:43] <mattbrejza> (private message i sent you a few mins ago)
[12:43] <nassau> ah
[12:43] <nassau> thanks
[12:43] <nassau> totally new to IRC< so didn't see it
[12:43] <nassau> manyu thanks matt
[12:43] <mattbrejza> ah :)
[12:44] <mattbrejza> no worries
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[12:49] <DL1SGP> so today I found some ole 26MHz RF-Keyboard receiver, it has a few lovely test-points on the PCB including DATA-OUT from the FSK-Receiver uC and audio-out :) could not resist playing with that
[12:49] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lft51kJdDxc
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[12:50] <SpeedEvil> Grr. Stupid qualcomm intersticials.
[12:51] Action: DL1SGP hands SpeedEvil the flamethrower ... feel free
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I feel that machine may fail a risk assessment.
[12:52] <wd8mnv> no safety guard
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Cookie-o-matic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l9OAccaJdA
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[12:56] <nats`> DL1SGP better than flamethrower, water gun with fluorhydric acid \o/
[12:56] <DL1SGP> heh
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[12:57] <nats`> if it hurts you're already dead but you don't know it :D
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[14:49] <ab3mc> If anyone in Switzerland, Southern Germany (around Munich), Austria, or the Czech Republic is able to tune up 144.006 in USB mode in order to listen for a FSK-Hell signal on 144.007 Mhz, I'd appreciate it. Most likely the balloon landed in the Atlantic, but there is at least a small chance that it made it to Europe and the NOAA Hysplit predictions place it in that vicinity around now.
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[14:52] <x-f> mclane is near Munich
[14:53] Nick change: X-Scale` -> X-Scale
[14:54] <ab3mc> Thanks -- I'll ping him if he shows up.
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[15:01] <x-f> i emailed him, we'll see what happens
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[15:02] <ab3mc> Thanks!
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[15:14] <DL7AD> good afternoon
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[15:28] <Hix> if I ssh into the linux box using putty with xming, is there a way to launch things without having to open a new ssh terminal?
[15:28] <Hix> i.e gedit locks the ssh window up
[15:28] <adamgreig> maybe gedit &
[15:29] <Hix> nope, unfortunately
[15:29] <Hix> this whole covert thing at work isn't going too well :)
[15:29] <eroomde> lol
[15:29] <adamgreig> if you run "gedit &"
[15:29] <adamgreig> it should background gedit
[15:29] <mfa298> an & at the end of the command should do it
[15:30] <adamgreig> so it opens but you can still use the shell
[15:30] <Hix> if only we still used Sun boxes for Catia
[15:30] <eroomde> try a program called 'screen'
[15:30] <eroomde> and vim
[15:30] <adamgreig> tmux > screen
[15:30] <adamgreig> if nothing else, easier to google for
[15:30] <eroomde> screen can, to first order approximation, let you sort of do alt-tab inside a terminal
[15:30] <mfa298> and if you forget hit Ctrl-Z and then type "bg"
[15:30] <eroomde> so you could have vim in one, ipython in the other, or whatever
[15:30] <eroomde> or yes tmux
[15:30] <adamgreig> I got to use sympy recently eroomde
[15:30] <eroomde> tmux is the cool kid
[15:30] <adamgreig> bwim I decided to try it out for my optimisation coursework
[15:31] <eroomde> adamgreig, what did you learn?
[15:31] <adamgreig> it's quite good fun
[15:31] <adamgreig> did symbolic differentiation for me
[15:31] <mfa298> screen as root on a box and then multiplayer sysadmin (via screen -x)
[15:31] <adamgreig> then turned that expression into a numpy lambda that I could evaluate
[15:31] <adamgreig> and functools has an lru_cache decorator that does an LRU for calling the function, which makes it easy to optimise certain optimisation algorithms which call the function on the same point a few times
[15:31] <adamgreig> bbl meeting
[15:32] <Hix> ah no, gedit & then ctrl C frees up the trminal. excellent, cheers
[15:32] <mfa298> shouldn't need the ctrl-C - that normally quits stuff
[15:32] <Hix> seems to be happy with it
[15:32] <mfa298> you might need to hit enter after gedit & as it may not show the prompt (although it's there)
[15:33] <Hix> I'll try that
[15:33] <eroomde> adamgreig, in what was the lab i was in for my masters
[15:34] <eroomde> which occupies the same floor space as your lab
[15:34] <eroomde> there were 3 godsill PhD students
[15:34] <eroomde> and Jens had the godsill defcon chart
[15:34] <eroomde> which was a chart with 5 vertically stacked blocks of colour
[15:34] <eroomde> from black at the bottom via green, blue, yellow, red at the top
[15:35] <eroomde> and a cardboard arrow with bluetack on pointig at one of the blocks
[15:35] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[15:35] <eroomde> black was godsill is not in cambridge
[15:35] <eroomde> via things like in the dpeartment, in divf, and the top one was in the lab
[15:35] <eroomde> he never tweaked what it meant despite him asking what it was for
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[15:53] <Hix> arrrrrrrrr fucking powerpoint
[15:54] <Hix> ^ NSFW or children sorry
[15:56] <eroomde> it's a sentiment with which we all can sympathise, thought
[15:56] <eroomde> though*
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[15:57] <nats`> I love powerpoint !
[15:57] <nats`> it means sleeping time during the meeting :D
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[15:57] <eroomde> thanksfully we don't do powerpoint
[15:58] <nats`> ohhh never did one
[15:58] <nats`> but pleased to see marketing boy presenting one :D
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[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> Evening Steve_G0TDJ
[16:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Matthew :-)
[16:00] <ibanezmatt13> how's things?
[16:00] <Hix> powerpoint is the whole reason the global economy is screwed. no fekker does anything anymore, they just present crap
[16:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Pretty good. I've built my new VAYU tracker. Just need to have a chat with Chris about the correct fuse settings
[16:01] darkstar-2001 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> oh nice, what you using to get the fuses on?
[16:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> I have a front end for AVRDude called avrdude-GUI
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> Are you running C code or Arduino on the boar?
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> board8
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> *
[16:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'd like to use the Atmel studio but my programmer isn't compatible
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> nor is mine
[16:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Using the Arduino IDE to program it
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> is it atmega328p-au
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[16:02] <Hix> isn't it just arduino pro mini @ 8MHz?
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> yes Hix
[16:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> It's a p not sure if it's au
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> is it tqfp package?
[16:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> ok, so in two clicks you can have your fuses set for you :)
[16:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hold up, I@ll get the number off the chip
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[16:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yes, it's a P-AU
[16:03] <wd8mnv> which VAYU board is this?
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_G0TDJ: What crystal?
[16:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> 8MHz
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> 3v3?
[16:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yes - wd8mnv: It's my development of Chris Stubbs' CHEAPO board
[16:04] <wd8mnv> is it open source?
[16:05] <Hix> if 8MHz im guessing yes 3v3 as there arent level convertors for the NEA
[16:05] <adamgreig> eroomde: hah, excellent
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> ok to set the fuses, go into Arduino IDE, tools -> board -> Arduino Pro or Pro Mini (3.3v 8MHz)
[16:05] <adamgreig> I'm getting on really well with my supervisor
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> then tools -> burn bootloader
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> done
[16:05] <Hix> eroomde hit me with it. why sould I use vim. apart from "use vim, be hapy"
[16:05] <adamgreig> all my meetings with him leave me feeling like I have a purpose and direction and interesting things to research
[16:05] <adamgreig> which is... novel but quite nice
[16:05] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: It will be when I've fully tested it: http://projecthab.co.uk/2013/09/26/cheapo-re-design/ Have a look at my blog
[16:06] <eroomde> Hix, you'll grow wings
[16:06] <eroomde> i would recommend the following
[16:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> Chris did me a custom entry for the original CHEAPO board and I tried the loading bootloader thing, it didn't work
[16:06] <adamgreig> suddenly enlightenment
[16:06] <eroomde> do a quick vim online tutorial game thing
[16:06] <eroomde> to sort of get the idea of moving around, copying and pasting
[16:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> ibanezmatt13: Going PM :-)
[16:06] <Hix> k
[16:06] <adamgreig> one day you will find yourself putting :wq in your word documents and then be enlightened
[16:06] <adamgreig> just run "vimtutor" on any good unix system
[16:06] <eroomde> then once you've spent a week with that, and you might be wondering why you should like it, i'll send you an awesome essay
[16:07] <eroomde> which was given as a stackoverflow answer
[16:07] <Hix> i know :wq and a few of the others from when it was on Sun boxes
[16:07] <eroomde> then you'll see how vim language itself is sort of like a programming language
[16:07] <adamgreig> enlightenment comes only when you try using :wq in another text editor :P
[16:07] <wd8mnv> how many sq in is the board?
[16:07] <eroomde> and you'll understand regex and unix tools like sed and grep for free as a side effect
[16:07] <mfa298> learn vi/vim and you can use the text editor on pretty much any linux/unix system you use
[16:07] <Hix> but then it's just more stuff to remember - I'll prob forget what I'm actually trying to learn ):
[16:08] <adamgreig> happily that's probably not how learning works
[16:08] <Hix> sorry yes it was vi i used to use
[16:08] <eroomde> yeah, 2 things at once can be hard
[16:08] <eroomde> but you bake it into your fingers with vim
[16:08] <eroomde> i promise
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[16:08] <mfa298> ^^ So true
[16:08] <mfa298> I reqularly write :wq into notepad documents and other things.
[16:08] <Hix> hmm vim & hant opened a new term
[16:09] <Hix> hant obviously is an new abv for hasn't
[16:09] <mfa298> doing that doesn't open a new terminal
[16:09] <mfa298> the & means open it in the background
[16:10] <Hix> I'm remote though, how to get it to open separately
[16:10] <mfa298> if you type "jobs" it will show the processes.
[16:10] <Hix> like ps -ef
[16:10] <mfa298> you can "fg <number>" to bring that one to the foreground
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[16:10] <mfa298> kinda like ps
[16:10] <mfa298> but it's the jobs in that terminal
[16:10] <Hix> ok
[16:10] <Hix> cheers
[16:11] <Hix> hmm, how to get back or do i have to :q
[16:11] <mfa298> when you have a list of items from jobs you can use fg / bg / kill to bring it to the foreground, background (same as starting with & at the end) or kill it
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[16:11] <mfa298> :q will quit
[16:12] <mfa298> ctrl-z will suspend the app in the foreground
[16:12] <Hix> yes, but from vim how to get to the other processes?
[16:12] <Hix> ahh
[16:12] <mfa298> you can then use bg to make it run in the background (useful for X apps)
[16:13] <mfa298> if you had an X app running and you do ctrl-z on it it won't be responsive until you do a bg on it
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[16:13] <wd8mnv> Steve_G0TDJ how big is that board?
[16:13] <Hix> cool sorted, cheers chaps.
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[16:13] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE-M -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[16:14] <Steve_G0TDJ> 30x70mm
[16:14] Nick change: Hix -> Hix_gon_ome
[16:14] <mfa298> learning screen / tmux is good if you want to have multiple terminal applications running.
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[16:15] <wd8mnv> nice : )
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[16:16] <eroomde> Hix_gon_ome, your solution will be tmux of screen
[16:16] <wd8mnv> but that 10 pin chip (power management?)... so small... gotta be a pain to solder
[16:16] <eroomde> both programs do a similar thing
[16:16] <Hix_gon_ome> cool, cheers. About to engage in battle with the M25, thx for the tips gents
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[16:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: It was a challenge!
[16:19] <wd8mnv> is that a 2 layer board?
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[16:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yes, double sided. S'cuse the delays, I@m working on it now :-)
[16:22] <wd8mnv> NP : )
[16:23] WillTablet (~Willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[16:23] <WillTablet> Hi
[16:24] <WillTablet> Agreed with Mitch that if the boards aren't here by next week, we'll talk about a remake
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[16:29] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: ping
[16:30] <wd8mnv> hi ya : )
[16:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi, thanks for your patience
[16:30] <wd8mnv> np... you're busy : )
[16:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> I managed to get it going. I didn't realise the AVR pins are marked up in a funny way
[16:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> Just need to do a little re-soldering, but that can wait
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[16:31] <wd8mnv> is the neo - 6 pin cpmpatable w/ the max 6 / 7?
[16:31] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm not sure. I just used the device Chris had on his orginal board
[16:32] <Steve_G0TDJ> UpuWork: Would probably be the best to ask regarding that.
[16:32] <wd8mnv> k... just wondering about future proofing
[16:32] <Steve_G0TDJ> Sure
[16:32] <Steve_G0TDJ> The boost reg was great fun to solder.
[16:33] <eroomde> the neos and max's are not pin compatible
[16:33] <Steve_G0TDJ> For fun read took a while of very patient work
[16:33] <eroomde> max's are pin compatible between 5,6,7
[16:33] <Steve_G0TDJ> Thanks eroomde
[16:33] <wd8mnv> did you use an iron or hot air?
[16:33] <eroomde> likewise most of the ublox parts are pin compatible with historical version of the same range
[16:33] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hot air gun, I couldn't see it to solder with an iron LOL
[16:33] <eroomde> but they're not inter-range pin compatible
[16:33] <wd8mnv> what about neo vx max?
[16:33] <eroomde> see above
[16:33] <wd8mnv> k... never used one, so i'm noob : )
[16:34] <eroomde> np
[16:34] <eroomde> different footprints
[16:35] <wd8mnv> one day i will try to build a GPS enabled clock : /
[16:35] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: Once I've got this one transmitting telemetry, I'm going to publish the whole design on my blog. Circuit in PDF and Eagle - Gerbers etc.
[16:35] <eroomde> wd8mnv, that's a very good idea
[16:35] <eroomde> you can also build gps disciplined 10MHz oscillators
[16:36] <eroomde> so you have a super accurate 10MHz lab reference for your radio and lab equipment
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[16:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=58&doc_id=1319290& Win a tek scope
[16:36] <Steve_G0TDJ> Didn't Leo do that on one of the 'B's?
[16:36] <wd8mnv> i don't have a gear budhet
[16:36] <wd8mnv> budget
[16:37] <eroomde> yeah but that never stopped anyone
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[16:37] <eroomde> it just happens
[16:37] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: That's pne thing that attracted me to HAB, it's not silly dear
[16:37] <Steve_G0TDJ> one thing...
[16:37] <eroomde> i beleive leo did use the gps pulse-per-second to discipline something
[16:37] <eroomde> though that solution usually still has some phase noise
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[16:38] <eroomde> plenty god enough for a payload though
[16:38] <Steve_G0TDJ> s'cuse me for a couple of mins...
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> The above could actually be on-topic for HAB debugging
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> That is - a hab debugging story
[16:39] <eroomde> like A Christmas Carole?
[16:40] <WillTablet> Oh hi eroomde
[16:40] <WillTablet> How are you?
[16:40] <eroomde> same as always
[16:41] <WillTablet> Which is?
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[16:42] <eroomde> unwilling to chit-chat about how I am
[16:44] <WillTablet> OK then. That's perfectly acceptable.
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[16:45] <WillTablet> I won't ask in future.
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[16:48] <WillTablet> Right, I'm going to read up on dominoex
[16:49] <WillTablet> Does tone element refer to a certain change in frequency?
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[16:52] <wd8mnv> anyone try an attiny85 as a controller?
[16:54] <bertrik> WillTablet: I think I understand dominoex now, tone element could refer to one of the 18 frequencies used in a dominoex signal
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[16:59] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: The board is sending out telemetry as we speak :-)
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[17:00] <wd8mnv> yay!! gonna fly it this weekend?
[17:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Possibly
[17:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> I have old code in it at the moment. Needs updating.
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[17:00] <wd8mnv> did you weigh it yet?
[17:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> NO LOL
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[17:01] Action: DL1SGP listens up... flying stuff?
[17:01] <WillTablet> bertrik so is each letter demonstrated by changes in the frequency or something?
[17:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> It will be around 35g with 2xAA attached
[17:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> DL1SGP: Just got my new VAYU board running
[17:01] <DL1SGP> woot hopefully no rain :)
[17:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah!
[17:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'll do some work on it over the next couple of days and see how it goes. I did want my friends Graham and Sebastian with me if poss. They helped a lot last Sunday
[17:03] <DL1SGP> that always helps
[17:05] <wd8mnv> i'm wondering how many party ballons will get 'borrowed' new years eve
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[17:14] <ve6ts> woohoo my digi key order came in
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[17:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: Now I know the design works, I'll get the docs sorted for the blog.
[17:16] <wd8mnv> kewl
[17:17] <Steve_G0TDJ> Do you use Eagle?
[17:17] <wd8mnv> i have it... use it? hmmm...
[17:17] <Steve_G0TDJ> It's a great prog. I use it for all my layouts
[17:17] <WillTablet> I'm confused about dominoex
[17:17] <Steve_G0TDJ> At least you will be able to open the design files
[17:17] <WillTablet> And what a symbol is etc
[17:17] <wd8mnv> i think if i wanted it use it... i'd just need the gerber files?
[17:17] <Steve_G0TDJ> SOrry Will, Ihaven't the feintest
[17:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> Sure, I'll be publishng them too
[17:18] <WillTablet> are the different characters defined by shifts in frequency?
[17:18] <bertrik> WillTablet: each character you want to send is encoded as a bunch of nibbles (4-bit units), each of which can be send as a tone which is offset in frequency to the previous tone by some amount
[17:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> wd8mnv: I had to make a Zip file of the Gerbers for Hackvana to fabricate the boards for me so the job is already done
[17:18] <wd8mnv> send them off... get some boards... like i said earlier... as a builder the onlt 'got ya' i see is that tiny chip
[17:19] <WillTablet> OK, so is the tone always the same frequency?
[17:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> Well, I have a tecnique I've developed, seems to work
[17:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'll try and document that too
[17:19] <WillTablet> Ignore that
[17:20] <WillTablet> So you make up certain nibbles by shifting the frequency some amount of steps?
[17:20] <bertrik> yes, basically
[17:22] <WillTablet> OK. I'm off to a ham radio club
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[17:54] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[18:18] <mclane> ping upu
[18:18] <Upu> hi mclane
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[18:18] <DL1SGP> 10s Speedy-Upu
[18:18] <mclane> Hi upu, any news about the NTX2b which I have ordered some time ago?
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[18:19] <Upu> Yeah I'm assured by the MD of Radiometrix they will be with me this week
[18:19] <Upu> so sorry but they have been quite slow on the order
[18:19] <Upu> I'll let you know as soon as I get them and ship
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[18:19] <Upu> afk got to put some food in the oven
[18:20] <mclane> thanks - forgive my impatience ;-)
[18:23] <Upu> no its ok
[18:23] <Upu> that post office is in for a shock the day they turn up trust me
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[18:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> ping Upu
[18:28] <Upu> Hi Steve :)
[18:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> Just doing dinner myself but I wanted to say thanks :-)
[18:28] <Upu> welcome :)
[18:28] <Steve_G0TDJ> The new VAYU board works
[18:28] <Upu> yay :)
[18:28] <Upu> pics later afk making food
[18:29] <Steve_G0TDJ> With a little help from ibanezmatt I got it going
[18:29] <Steve_G0TDJ> See you later!
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[18:41] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: South Charleston High students to launch satellite http://t.co/aWrleaBCvP #amsat #hamr #amateurradio #ukhas #hab
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[18:44] <DL1SGP> :D I found my ole tesco simcard, let's see if it still works
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[19:03] <x-f> "temporary Near Space Stations" - http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/new-satellite-segment-in-iaru-region-2-bandplan/
[19:03] <x-f> heh
[19:03] <x-f> good evening
[19:03] <Herman-PB0AHX> good evening to all
[19:05] <ve6ts> x-f excellent
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[19:12] <wd8mnv> will that allow you to use packet / arps?
[19:12] <wd8mnv> aprs*
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[19:16] <PE0SAT> Herman-PB0AHX: GE
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[19:21] <Herman-PB0AHX> PE0SAT goeden avond jan
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[19:28] <G4BWR_Mark> Appears Leo is off again.
[19:32] <DL7AD> ohohohoh B-21 is flying :D
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: http://pbrd.co/1a7Wjzn :)
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> We learned the potential divider equation today so I thought I'd put it in context :)
[19:33] <Upu> kinda ibanezmatt13
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> kinda? :/
[19:33] <bertrik> DL7AD: In a year or so, it'll be a B-52 :)
[19:33] <Upu> there is a 100k resistor internally on the NTX2 input
[19:33] <DL7AD> rofl... yes bertrik
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> ah, didn't know that
[19:33] <Upu> Try this : http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> of course
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> how does the 100k affect it Upu?
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> aren't we only interested in the Vout across the divider circuit?
[19:35] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> I thought it was the ratio of the high/low voltage that did it
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:35] <Upu> LeoBodnar usual frequency and modulation ?
[19:37] <Boggle_mint> Upu: Yes, same as usual :-)
[19:37] <Upu> ta
[19:37] <Upu> it can effect stuff depending on your circuit ibanezmatt13
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> ah right. See after college today, I've concluded it's about time I understood how it worked properly
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> ie, what was going on in that link you sent
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[19:41] <charolastra> did we miss this launch? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=848_1382488381
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> this is relevant to my interests
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[19:47] <LeoBodnar> afk for a bit
[19:48] <stilldavid> https://www.twilio.com/blog/2013/10/1-855-meow-jam-sending-cat-pictures-over-the-phone-via-space-age-technology.html
[19:49] <stilldavid> sort of related to this channel's interests, plus... cats?
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[19:58] <g0hww> cool, i can hear b-21 in Bury St Edmunds already. not quite strong enough for a decode
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> 21
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> _B_alloonathon
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> or maybe... /b/21
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[19:59] <g0hww> 434.50125 centre
[20:00] Action: Laurenceb_ discovered he can track UPS deliveries on flightradar24
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[20:07] <DL1SGP> thanks for 21 Leo :)
[20:08] <DL7AD> he's offline DL1SGP
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[20:08] <DL1SGP> He will read the log someday :)
[20:08] <DL1SGP> see :)
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[20:09] <DL1SGP> evening LeoBodnar
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[20:09] <ibanezmatt13_> evening eroomde
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> evening *
[20:09] <eroomde> yoyo
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[20:15] <arko> oh nice B-21
[20:15] <DL1SGP> hi arko :)
[20:16] <arko> hello!
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[20:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[20:17] <arko> hello tom
[20:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: are You flying to Asia :-) ?
[20:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> hello Arko
[20:18] <Maxell> Any preditected float altitude for B-21
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> 6700m first night
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Lrdw5mimQ
[20:20] <Maxell> aww right
[20:20] <wd8mnv> 80s hair
[20:21] Action: arko grooves
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[20:22] <DL1SGP> LeoBodnar: weather looks quite OK, so hopefully it will travel a bit :)
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[20:24] <LeoBodnar> we'll see :D
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d_KhITjA_gA/TKp8dGNe4hI/AAAAAAAABnY/NGb6IxzgxjI/s400/300px-Extortion_for_Dummies.png
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[20:25] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[20:27] <ab3mc> Anyone here tried putting a camera on a floater and transmitting still images via SSTV or similar?
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[20:27] <DL7AD> SpeedEvil: GEMA is blocking this video ... -.-
[20:28] <mfa298> we've had ssdv on a latex float before
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> ab3mc: Dave was transmitting SSDV from floater
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> DL1SGP: Kim Wilde - flying to Cambodia. Following on to the 'flying to Asia' comment
[20:29] <ab3mc> Any details available online for me to look at?
[20:29] <mfa298> I'm not sure how well a foil/pico float would work with ssdv (weight is likely to be a challenging factor)
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> Look at this for a nebula! http://physicsforme.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/space_cats.jpg
[20:29] <mfa298> the latex floater was a raspberry pi
[20:29] <DL1SGP> SpeedEvil: though based in Germany GEMA cannot block it for me :)
[20:29] <ab3mc> (I've got some serial camera modules which weigh about 4 grams I was thinking of flying).
[20:31] <eroomde> a nice overflight of the ukhas historical sites
[20:31] <mfa298> ab3mc: this is the ssdv code https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv
[20:31] <arko> hah
[20:31] <mfa298> sends small jpg images over rtty
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[20:33] <mfa298> I think the challenge is having a serial camera that gives the data in a suitable format for a microcontroller (I think you want somethign that provides jpeg data from the camera rather than raw data)
[20:33] <ab3mc> Thanks. Was thinking of using DRM or similar if it's not too compute intensive.
[20:33] <ab3mc> The serial cameras I have output JPEG format images.
[20:33] <fsphil> mfa298: I think for a pico we'll need a better microcontroller, and one of those simple cmos sensors
[20:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: cameras from modern cellphones
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[20:34] <fsphil> indeed
[20:34] <fsphil> some of them even do jpeg
[20:34] <mfa298> ab3mc: fsphil is probably one of the best people to talk to about how to do lightweight camera payloads
[20:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes, and they are small
[20:35] <ab3mc> And here he is! ;)
[20:35] <fsphil> ta da :)
[20:35] <fsphil> sounds like you've most of the bits already ab3mc
[20:35] <fsphil> the ssdv encoder will run on just about anything
[20:35] <fsphil> if you feed it jpeg it doesn't use that much memory
[20:35] <Upu> Dave did a very light canon launch
[20:35] <Upu> 120g ?
[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i will port it to PIC when i get my FRAM
[20:36] <ve6ts> i did a calculation based on the specs of the hydrogen generator that environment canada said they were going to buy for balloon inflation and the cost in electricity to split water is approx $3 cdn for 1 600 gram balloon lifting say around 1KG payload
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> How about single pixel camera?
[20:36] <fsphil> how much memory do PICs have these days SP9UOB-Tom?
[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: ?? photodiode ?
[20:36] <ve6ts> this doesn't include the purchase price/parts or deniozed water
[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: im using pic18lf22k26 with almost 4k of ram
[20:37] <fsphil> 4k would be enough
[20:37] <fsphil> the encoder uses about 2k
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> 97MB
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[20:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: yes, but my plan is to take the photo, store it in fram, completly turn off the camera and sloooowly transmit collected data :-)
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[20:38] <ab3mc> I will take a look at the SSDV code, but at RTTY speeds it may be a bit slow for me. Robot 36 takes 36 seconds to send a QVGA image, which is about what I'm looking for.
[20:38] <fsphil> yea
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[20:38] <fsphil> ab3mc: yea at about 300 baud it sends a 320x240 image in about 4 minutes. though better quality than robot36
[20:38] <ab3mc> Another option I'm reading about now is Digital Radio Mondial format...
[20:39] <fsphil> DRM would take quite a bit of work
[20:39] <fsphil> and it's no faster than ssdv
[20:39] <fsphil> you can do rtty at 1200 baud if you have a bit more power than 10mw
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[20:39] <mfa298> for us UK folks rtty is probably the best option at the moment with our limited power
[20:40] <fsphil> it doesn't even have to be on rtty
[20:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: are You talking about this http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081014134021.htm
[20:41] <fsphil> you could send ssdv packets over drm, but it would be a bit silly
[20:41] <ab3mc> Multi-tone RTTY where you use the extra bits for FEC is an interesting option, but I was hoping to find something for which there was already software available to decode in order to make it easy for others to receive the images as well.
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> well x-ray version
[20:41] <fsphil> dl-fldigi is our SSDV over RTTY decoder
[20:41] <mfa298> we need a dominoEX300
[20:41] <fsphil> it's best feature is being able to upload the received packets to a website
[20:41] <fsphil> so the data from multiple stations gets merged
[20:41] <ab3mc> "Digital SSTV software is based on Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) which is an open standard system for transmitting digital signals." - http://www.amateur-radio-wiki.net/index.php?title=SSTV_software
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[20:42] <ab3mc> Looks like 5 software packages already implement this, FWIW.
[20:42] <fsphil> it also means you get live updates to the images on the website
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[20:43] <ab3mc> Love dl-fldigi -- just aren't enough stations here in the US yet...
[20:44] <mfa298> ab3mc: assuming your in the USA then digital sstv might be an option as you can use more power airborne
[20:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> new fl-digi has dominoEX-88 :-)
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[20:44] <ab3mc> Yes, the FCC limits (2500 watts) aren't really a limitations... ;)
[20:44] <mfa298> Raspberry pi could be an option that might work (if there's an implimentation that works on linux)
[20:45] <mfa298> in the UK we're limited to ISM band only so 10mW meaning we need modes that work at a lower speed
[20:45] <ab3mc> http://users.telenet.be/on4qz/qsstv/index.html
[20:46] <ab3mc> Even with an Amateur license, you still are limited to 10 mW?
[20:46] <mfa298> although our ssdv solution is good as it combines various receivers to get the data
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> can't do airborne hamming
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> at all
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> night
[20:46] <mfa298> our AR license says no airborne use :(
[20:47] <ab3mc> Yuk. Fly a frequency-agile transmitter and switch to a ham band and high power as soon as you leave UK airspace?
[20:47] <fsphil> heck you can use ATV if you can do amateur radio
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[20:47] <fsphil> forget still images, get video :)
[20:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: HD in amateur DVB-T
[20:48] <fsphil> mmmmmm
[20:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: or even 4k!
[20:48] <fsphil> would be so nice
[20:48] <mfa298> its not clear how much of EU allows airborne use either with AR - and legally I think we could only use airborne AR once over a country allowing it
[20:48] <ab3mc> I was thinking of a payload that could be lifted with 1 or 2 foil balloons... Video is power hungry so I'm not sure how long I could sustain it with the kinds of batteries I could use on such a payload.
[20:49] <fsphil> A future flight of mine will do 48x40 video at 12.5 fps :) greyscale
[20:49] <ab3mc> So if I'm a private pilot in the UK and want to bring my amateur radio in the airplane with me, I'm forbidden to use it? That's awful.
[20:49] <mfa298> as I understand it over international water you're bound by the terms of your license. (which seems insane)
[20:49] <fsphil> yea ab3mc, sadly if you follow the letter of the law even jumping into the air while operating is forbidden
[20:49] <Maxell> partial decode
[20:50] <Maxell> now waiting for next batch
[20:50] <g0hww> b-21 is getting very loud now
[20:50] <fsphil> oh Leo has done it again
[20:50] <DL1SGP> indeed fsphil
[20:50] <g0hww> it looks like its coming within 2km of me
[20:50] <g0hww> ground separation
[20:50] <ab3mc> If I'm bound by the terms of my license, then that suggets I can operate airborne in the UK since it's legal for me to do so here in the USA?
[20:51] <fsphil> suspect not
[20:51] <mfa298> better is the fact we could sit in an airplane with someone from the US over international waters (12 miles off the UK coast), the american could use AR with full power, the UK folk couldn't
[20:51] <fsphil> but I doubt anyone would complain if a balloon overflew the uk
[20:51] <fsphil> actually someone would
[20:51] <fsphil> but we can ignore them
[20:51] <ab3mc> I almost think it would be funny to receive a violation notice from the UK equivalent of the FCC. Would have to frame it... :)
[20:51] <mfa298> operating in the country you're doing it under a recriprical license so your limited by the rules of where you're visiting.
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[20:52] <LeoBodnar> ab3mc: usually inside the other country local rules override
[20:52] <ab3mc> Yes, that makes sense.
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> but if you violate local rules it automatically violate your licence terms too
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[20:53] <ab3mc> I don't know about that -- haven't checked FCC Part 91 Rules to see what they say.
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[20:53] <ab3mc> Would be an interesting test case to fly a balloon over the UK and get violated for transmitting whilst airborne.
[20:53] <fsphil> we'd all have US callsigns if that loophole existed :)
[20:54] <Maxell> and now we wait for stronger signals: $$21,4205nr0aHHI02Xx.2t6rn0.589,5284,8,-rn0U,i\Ufffffffffie
[20:54] <Maxell> ZZz night everyobne
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> night!
[20:54] <mfa298> I think your license is only valid in your country and for suitable license classes in international waters.
[20:54] <DL1SGP> ab3mc: why not start from some extraterritorial US ground in UK :) easier to fly over UK then
[20:54] <DL1SGP> good night Maxell
[20:55] <ab3mc> If there is nothing in FCC Part 91 Rules & Regulations about it, then a violation notice from the UK will not have any effect on a US license holder. I can't find anything about this, but it doesn't mean it isn't there...
[20:55] <ab3mc> Sorry, Part 97.
[20:55] <mfa298> for another country you need some sort of recipricol license, these are often agreed between countries (e.g. CEPT) so you can automatically use your license elsewhere
[20:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[20:56] <ab3mc> I will send an email to the ARRL and see if they have an opinion on the subject.
[20:56] <mfa298> e.g. I can go to france an operate as F/M1ARI due to the CEPT reciprocal agreement. Without that aggreement I'd have to get a french license (potentially having to pass their test and pay their fees)
[21:00] <ab3mc> Also, at what altitude does soverign airspace stop? Obviously satellites are above soverign limits, but is there an agreed upon altitude?
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[21:00] <g0hww> b-21 make me feel like i'm in a submarine
[21:00] <ve6ts> ab3mc in canada about 60,000 feet is uncontrolled, and above 98KM or so it isn;t part of canada anymore
[21:01] <g0hww> and the destroyer is getting closer
[21:01] <DL1SGP> wait, you are not a submarine, g0hww? I always thought you were :)
[21:01] <ve6ts> about is above
[21:01] <ab3mc> Looks like 100 km is the generally agreed upon number.
[21:01] <ab3mc> (for sovereignity purposes).
[21:01] <mfa298> good luck getting a balloon to 100km
[21:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Guys
[21:02] <DL1SGP> yo Steve
[21:02] <ab3mc> Yup, not going to happen. Just wondering...
[21:02] <g0hww> DL1SGP, no, thankfully. I'm sure there are some Dutch stations that are below sea level though
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> envelope-less balloon
[21:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yo Felix :D
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> Hi Steve_G0TDJ
[21:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Leo - Got another one in the air?
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> yeah, while some clear sky opened up
[21:03] <ab3mc> Apparently the Americans thought it was lower back in the days when they were flying U2 and SR71 aircraft over Russia. :)
[21:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> I just missed the data - one every 5mins like normal?
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> U2 service life has been extended just recently, hasn't it?
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[21:05] Nick change: BrainDamage1 -> BrainDamage
[21:05] Action: mfa298 gives up fighting vps providers and goes to get food
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[21:07] <ab3mc> "The U-2 has remained in service since the end of the Cold War and is one of several aircraft types that have been operated by the USAF in excess of 50 years. It has participated in conflicts such as Afghanistan and Iraq, and supported several multinational NATO operations. The role of the U-2 is increasingly performed by alternative platforms, such as surveillance satellites, unmanned
[21:07] <ab3mc> reconnaissance drones such as the Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk, and conventional aircraft."
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> I remember it's decommission has been postponed again
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> Lovely plane.
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[21:09] <LeoBodnar> Thoroughly recommend this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/dp/1409136868
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> Apart from the last chapter
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[21:09] <DL1SGP> I will try to find it without last chapter somewhere :)
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[21:13] <Steve_G0TDJ> B-21 not strong enough to decode here
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[21:17] <fsphil> not to B then
[21:17] <ab3mc> Letter sent to the US ARRL requesting a legal opinion on the issue of a US-based ARHAB straying into UK airspace. Will report back if loophole found...
[21:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> Sadly not. Alas poor 'B', I knew hom well fsphil
[21:18] <fsphil> haha
[21:18] <g0hww> some strange signal appeared at the end of the last DOMX16 burst. i think it might be aliens trying to communicate with B-21
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[21:19] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> Oh?
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[21:21] <PB0NER> Hi guys
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[21:21] <LeoBodnar> I think common sense shall prevail in legal issues
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[21:22] <DL1SGP> goeden avoend Martijn, allet goed?
[21:22] <ab3mc> Common sense is not so common these days, but that would be nice.
[21:23] <junderwood_M0JCU> What happened to the end of the last packet? Rubbish after the latitude.
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> Oh, there were a lot of changes made to the code
[21:25] <DL1SGP> it is in surprise-mode :)
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> so it might be a bit broken
[21:25] <PB0NER> Gutentag DL1SGP
[21:25] <junderwood_M0JCU> It certainly surprised fldigi
[21:26] <PB0NER> I jus got that last packet, DL-flgigi was not started yet
[21:27] <PB0NER> but my X-yagi is 'on its way'
[21:27] <g0hww> i'm not hearing any pings
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> died?
[21:27] <PB0NER> so reception would be better soon..
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[21:31] <junderwood_M0JCU> No packets since 1 and a half packets at 21:14
[21:31] <junderwood_M0JCU> I can still see the periodic bips
[21:31] <g0hww> i think i may have found the pings. 434.510 dial
[21:31] <g0hww> modem +1288
[21:31] <junderwood_M0JCU> dial is 434.500 for me
[21:32] <LeoBodnar> It's not impossible g0hww
[21:32] <g0hww> assuming i've found the proper signal its roughly 10KHz up from where it was when i lost it
[21:32] <Upu> I'd concur with g0hww
[21:33] <Upu> lets see if it does some Domino
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> It is very possible
[21:33] <g0hww> still just pings though
[21:33] <Upu> yep
[21:33] <junderwood_M0JCU> Odd. I can still see pings at .500 but nothing at all at .510
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[21:40] <g0hww> hmmm. strange multiple pings in quick succession there on the sig at 434.510 dial
[21:40] <g0hww> about 5 i'd say
[21:41] <g0hww> nothing much else going on
[21:41] <junderwood_M0JCU> I have a strong tone on 434.502.45 actual frequency which seems to be modulated every few seconds
[21:41] <junderwood_M0JCU> by broadband pings
[21:41] <junderwood_M0JCU> can't say whether it was there before - I had the bandwidth reduced
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[21:44] <junderwood_M0JCU> RIP B-21.
[21:44] <junderwood_M0JCU> Roll on B-22 ]:)
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> That was a quick flight lo;l
[21:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Only just come in has gone alredy ?
[21:45] <junderwood_M0JCU> expired in mid sentence
[21:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh....
[21:45] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$B-21,56,211653,131023,52.3221,1.aewyn;nlaefALPtio
[21:45] <arko> oh no
[21:45] <Maxell> R.I.P. $$B-21,56,211653,131023,52.3221,1.ara \Uffffffff!'aieaiol\Uffffffff ier\UffffffffUn7naitW4afenaoeaeooe\Uffffffffr \UffffffffG\Uffffffffy\Uffffffffao a Oto
[21:45] <arko> -24C
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> It might recover later on but not sure
[21:46] <g0hww> i'll continue to monitor the pinging i'm hearing on 434.510 and see what happens to it
[21:46] <arko> you think the cold killed it?
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> Cheers g0hww
[21:46] <PE2G> On what freq was the last data rx?
[21:46] <fsphil> odd, they've been very reliable in the past
[21:46] <Upu> I think it died at exactly the same point for everyone
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> what is the interval and are they regular?
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> I have rewritten a lot of code recently
[21:47] <g0hww> LeoBodnar, i'll try and record a bit
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> It might unglitch itself after 22:00UTC
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> watchdog?
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> woof woof
[21:50] <junderwood_M0JCU> I'm still seeing regular but faint pings every 4ish seconds on 434.5
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[21:55] <LeoBodnar> Could this be another B-*?
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[21:57] <ab3mc> Anyone know the current consumption on the ublox Max-7C with it in On/Off PowerSave mode and off? It's not specified on the data sheet.
[21:58] <Upu> you mean cyclic ?
[21:58] <WillTablet> Got an NRD 535 :-)
[21:59] <ab3mc> No -- On/Off mode.
[21:59] <Upu> it is listed
[21:59] <Upu> its more than the 7Q's
[21:59] <Upu> quite a bit more
[21:59] <g0hww> i don't think the signal on 434.510 is related. i've found other parts of the signal over a wider spectrum
[22:00] <Upu> locating it now ab3mc
[22:00] <mfa298> WillTablet: having radios is only good *if* you use them.
[22:00] <ab3mc> Page 16 of the datasheet lists current consumptions, but it does not list the current consumption for when it is in on/off powersave mode.
[22:01] <ab3mc> I'm trying to determine whether I need to remove power from VCC, or if I can simply put it in powersave mode when I don't need the GPS.
[22:01] <Maxell> and? did it de-glitch?
[22:02] <Upu> well if you remove power
[22:02] <Upu> 0mA
[22:02] <Upu> but if you're linked to the battery
[22:02] <Upu> Backup battery current 7Q 15µA 7C 300µA
[22:02] <ab3mc> Yes, there is 300 uA of current used to keep it warm-startable.
[22:02] <ab3mc> That's OK.
[22:02] <Upu> I know Leo had some issues with warm stating it
[22:02] <Upu> and ended up just leaving it in cyclick
[22:03] <Upu> cyclic
[22:03] <Upu> which is about 6mA I think
[22:03] <Upu> @ 1.8V
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, it's not pretty
[22:03] <ab3mc> Yes, that's way too much for me.
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> not as annoying as what im doing atm
[22:03] <WillTablet> mfa298 yup that's the point
[22:03] <ab3mc> Maybe I'll just switch VCC and not worry about it.
[22:04] <WillTablet> I'm looking around HF.
[22:04] <WillTablet> Not really sure what to look for and where
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> trying to replace an stm32
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> with a scalpel...
[22:04] <mfa298> 20m is a good start for hf
[22:05] <mfa298> about 5m of wire as an antenna thrown out the window should pick up some stuff
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> as i cant reflow it due to heat sensitive stuff
[22:05] <ab3mc> Leo: Did you use the recommended chip antenna (INPAQ) for your board? I see Digikey offers a number of different GPS chip antennas.
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> Yes, Johanson antennas work
[22:07] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=55
[22:07] <Upu> that one ab3mc
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[22:07] <ab3mc> Thanks!
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[22:08] <Upu> pinch some from wb8elk :)
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[22:09] <ab3mc> kk!
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[22:10] <LeoBodnar> looks like battery just died http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/6288c6fa2028a62a2791aad8c5294b67#g/altitude,battery,temperature_internal
[22:10] <ab3mc> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1575AT43A0040E/712-1003-1-ND/1560832
[22:11] <arko> that makes sense
[22:11] <arko> -24C is pretty cold for lipo
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> I have used bigger battery apparently but it must have different chemistry
[22:11] <ab3mc> They have some others with more gain than the Johanson, but if its working for others, it's good enough for me./
[22:11] <DL7AD_> good evening
[22:11] <arko> ah
[22:12] <WillTablet> Heard let it be by the Beatles on 3985 khz
[22:13] Action: bertrik wonders how those tiny GPS antennas work
[22:13] <WillTablet> Must be a pirate station since all the stations I could find on the internet for that were government ones
[22:14] <junderwood_M0JCU> LeoBodnar, Oops. Will it come to life with the solar panel tomorrow?
[22:14] <arko> LeoBodnar: aerogel
[22:14] <arko> its the dream material i want to try
[22:15] <arko> place the battery in aerogel
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[22:15] <arko> then run out the wires long enough where the heat from the battery can't escape
[22:16] <bertrik> I read that lithium batteries generally release very little heat
[22:16] <DL1SGP1> ok time for bed be safe *
[22:16] <ab3mc> What was the battery's capacity?
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> 300mAh
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> possibly junderwood_M0JCU
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[22:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> shame it will be in the wrong country
[22:17] <ab3mc> Did they specify capacity as a function of temperature?
[22:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> (for me)
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> no, LiPos usually officially don't work at these temperatures
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[22:18] <ab3mc> OK. Sounds like the Lithium manganese batteries have lower temperature ratings, then.
[22:18] <ab3mc> But no rechargability.
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[22:21] <ab3mc> Leo: You need a tritium battery!
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[22:21] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> that can be obtained
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> http://www.gizmag.com/city-labs-nanotritium-betavoltaic-battery/23720/
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[22:23] <ab3mc> A bit pricey. A couple of decades ago they had them at hamfests here in the USA very cheaply, though they probably had dangerous isotopes in them.
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> nice
[22:24] <ab3mc> Probably too heavy for use in floaters, though.
[22:25] <WillTablet> Has anyone thought about nuclear powered HABs?
[22:27] <ab3mc> Microwave-powered HABs. Just beam microwaves up to them in order to provide them with power... :)
[22:28] <WillTablet> Heh
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[22:30] <ab3mc> Leo: http://www.gmbattery.com/product/showproduct.php?lang=en&id=33
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[22:31] <Laurenceb_> you might be able to make passive RF harvesting work
[22:32] <WillTablet> Surely the power would be really tiny though
[22:32] <ab3mc> Looks like -40C is as good as it gets unless you have a very large budget for something exotic.
[22:32] <ab3mc> Though solar works great at very low temperatures.
[22:33] <ab3mc> Maybe WB8ELK has the right idea with 100% solar powered payloads.
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> i dont get how those tritium things can be very effiicent
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> seeing as tritium decay is 18kev
[22:37] <ab3mc> Says up to 5% efficiency. Not very good.
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: You don't get one photon out
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: the decay causes a cascade of ionisation which hits the phosphor
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> So it's not quite that bad.
[22:38] <ab3mc> The older cells used heavier radioisotopes along with shielding to make them "safe" for handling...
[22:38] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> ok the efficiency is 7millipercent
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> lol
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> i just worked it out
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[22:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:39] <ab3mc> Wikipedia says 0.1 to 5%. Couuld be wrong...
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> im going of the datasheet for that battery
[22:39] <ab3mc> (talking about atomic batteries in general, though).
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> it should be able to produce 30µA or so
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> *W
[22:40] <ab3mc> Might be better off harvesting stray RF at that point...
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[22:40] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if its possible to convert tritium decay with good efficiency
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> if i use silicon bandgap and divide by 18keV
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> i get 7millipercent
[22:42] <SP3OSJ> Hello Europe, who knows the frequency of the D1?
[22:43] <DL7AD__> 145.3
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: you're assuming no gain
[22:43] <SP3OSJ> wow 145,3
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> and that matches the datasheet
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> looks like tritium compound with PN junctions either side
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> rather lame
[22:44] <SP3OSJ> SSB????
[22:44] <SP3OSJ> FM
[22:44] <DL7AD__> ssb
[22:44] <DL7AD__> rtty 425/50
[22:44] <SP3OSJ> What is it???
[22:45] <SP3OSJ> thanks
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[22:46] <DL7AD__> SP3OSJ: 7n2
[22:46] <SP3OSJ> OK ower ower
[22:47] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54889A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:48] <DL7AD__> i dont have a proper receiver here
[22:48] <DL7AD__> $$$$$D-1,20,22:46z57,52.54013,14.38779,3977,7,-2,620791.3?*6F0E
[22:48] <SP3OSJ> mark: 145.300 space: 434.500 :))))
[22:49] <DL7AD__> can you receive it SP3OSJ?
[22:49] <SP3OSJ> no
[22:50] <SP3OSJ> verdical?, no horizontal?
[22:50] <SP3OSJ> power ist ???
[22:51] <SP3OSJ> yes yes
[22:51] <SP3OSJ> 145,299
[22:51] <DL7AD__> only the person know it who build it
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[22:53] <DL7AD__> SP3OSJ: rofl
[22:53] <DL7AD__> i was kidding. yes i did. vertical 10mW
[22:53] <SP3OSJ> I now have to start at 437.700 RTTY 100bd?
[22:57] <SP3OSJ> What system is the transmitter SI4463?
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[23:09] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: it is an Si4464
[23:09] <SP3OSJ> There are designer D1 (Es gibt Designer D1)
[23:09] <DL7AD> ehm yes
[23:09] <DL7AD> the beeping is cool, allright?
[23:10] <SP3OSJ> DL7AD war Sie? (D1)
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[23:10] <DL7AD> hm...?!?
[23:10] <DL7AD> try in english
[23:11] <SP3OSJ> What is your transmitter D1
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[23:11] <SP3OSJ> SI4463?
[23:11] <DL7AD> no its an Si4464
[23:12] <SP3OSJ> SI4464
[23:12] <DL7AD> it does a signle beep when its on sleep, double beep when aquiring GPS, triple beep before transmitting
[23:13] <SP3OSJ> Now I design tracker for SI4463 (2m)
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[23:14] <SP3OSJ> Where flight D1 to America?
[23:14] <DL7AD> i dont know... hope it will reach russia at least...
[23:15] <SP3OSJ> You have a photo
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[23:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/rust-removal-miracle-molasses-204391.html
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> Funky.
[23:15] <SP3OSJ> Berlin - Moscow
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> I guess the molasses derusts by gently reducing the rust
[23:16] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[23:17] <DL7AD> ehm yes... i will set up a page soon (1hour).
[23:17] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: you have to keep an eye on it, because its shifting...
[23:17] <SP3OSJ> I did not ask about the car. I ask about the balloon
[23:18] <SP3OSJ> You stabilizer GPS transmitter?
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[23:19] <SP3OSJ> You stabilizer GPS transmitter? I ask because I want to go to sleep
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[23:21] <SP3OSJ> DL7AD what's your name?
[23:21] <DL7AD> Sven
[23:21] <SP3OSJ> OK Sven my name Artur
[23:21] <DL7AD> :)
[23:22] <DL7AD> got you already in my contact book
[23:22] <SP3OSJ> OK Sven The transmitter has stabilized GPS
[23:23] <DL7AD> i think so... im crosschecking with the airpressure to avoid hopping
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[23:23] <DL7AD> how long does it do the double beeps? when its transmitting the double beeps, its aquiring gps
[23:24] <DL7AD> so thats the time when the most current is drawn
[23:24] <SP3OSJ> Is to stabilize the GPS I sleep. There is no stabilization GPS I can not sleep
[23:25] <DL7AD> rofl... i will improve this next time
[23:25] <SP3OSJ> 145.300 transmitter teeth did not move
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[23:27] <SP3OSJ> Why Sven takes off at night as all asleep?
[23:28] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: because im living in the near of an airport
[23:28] <DL7AD> final approach is pretty close to me
[23:29] <SP3OSJ> Fly: Saturday, Sunday
[23:29] <DL7AD> will not make a difference. :)
[23:31] <SP3OSJ> How to hook the aircraft is definitely America
[23:31] <DL7AD> :D
[23:32] <SP3OSJ> Berlin 8 hours in New York City
[23:32] <DL7AD> yes but the other way around...
[23:32] <SP3OSJ> no problem
[23:32] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: is the field strengh strong enough?
[23:33] <SP3OSJ> Yes very strong
[23:33] <DL7AD> stronger than 10mW on 70cm?
[23:33] <SP3OSJ> YES
[23:34] <DL7AD> so i will do 1mW next time ;)
[23:34] <SP3OSJ> 2m is fantastic
[23:34] <SP3OSJ> 2,5mW
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[23:34] <DL7AD> i only did 2m because i was unable to remove the low pass filter from the board
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[23:35] <SP3OSJ> SI4464?
[23:38] <SP3OSJ> Sven What's your balloon Qalatex silver 36"
[23:38] <SP3OSJ> Helium or hydrogen?
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[23:39] <DL7AD> helium qualatex 36" SI4464
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[23:40] <SP3OSJ> SVEN which allows the PIC or Atmega 328p?
[23:41] <SP3OSJ> SVEN not sleep
[23:42] <DL7AD> nonono... second
[23:42] <SP3OSJ> shlafmyce
[23:42] <SP3OSJ> Schlafmütze
[23:42] <DL7AD> got already footprints on my head by the keyboard
[23:43] <DL7AD> its an pecan pico 4
[23:43] <DL7AD> that one: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/pecan-pico-4-serial-number-1-built-working/
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nite-glow-keyring-illuminates-colour/dp/B000EXZNA0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382571805&sr=8-1&keywords=tritium+light
[23:45] <SP3OSJ> fantastic
[23:46] <DL7AD> it has unfortunately an error on it. its drawing 24mA even when its asleap...
[23:47] <DL7AD> but im unable to do anything, because i dont have the ability to change anything
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: I've got one.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: not that exact model.
[23:47] <DL7AD> it will be okay for my first launch
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> They're clearly visible at >20m in proper dark
[23:48] <DL7AD> do you have pico 3 or 4?
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> im wondering about extracting the tritium and trying for a proper "battery"
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> unfortunatly i have no clue how to do it
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> - the beta to power conversion
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Glue ten to a solar panel
[23:49] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> I did the sums to get the power output of those.
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> IIRC it's about a microwatt of light.
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:49] <DL7AD> D-1 had this software: https://github.com/DL7AD/pecan_rtty/blob/master/PecanRTTY.ino
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> better than the off the shelf PN junction stuff
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> thats a nanowatt
[23:49] <SP3OSJ> you have a program that tracker D1??
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> i suspect phosphor and solar cell would actually be better than PN junction
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Remember that Vf of a diode drops about 60mV for every decade under nominal power it is
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> Might need a GaAs cell and a blue one
[23:53] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: yes... thats the code running on the ATMega https://github.com/DL7AD/pecan_rtty/blob/master/PecanRTTY.ino
[23:54] <SP3OSJ> I can copy the software D1?
[23:54] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[23:54] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: yes no problem ;)
[23:54] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ: but its only for pecan pico 4
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Night
[23:57] <SP3OSJ> I change my toen big program (delete D-1 - write SP3OSJ :))))
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 24 2013