highaltitude.log.20131018

[00:00] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[00:01] Action: WillTablet zzzzzzzzzzzz
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[01:38] <rjenks> Hi all, I'm working on a HAB project and need some advice
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[01:40] <rjenks> I am looking for a pressure sensor that can handle 150000ft. The ones I'm finding on AdaFruit, SparkFun, etc.. don't seem to be up to the task.
[01:42] <Darkside> they all crap out around 35km
[01:43] <Darkside> i'v usd the BMP085 up to 40km, but it started outputting erronous readings after about 38km
[01:43] <Darkside> and im betting it was nonlinear up there anyway
[01:45] <rjenks> I've seen several people comment that "there are better ones" in web comments, but they never give specifics
[01:46] <Darkside> yeahi dunno
[01:46] <Darkside> i dont bother with pressure sensors
[01:46] <Darkside> its not particularly interesting data
[01:46] <Darkside> and you'll get a more accurate altitude from gps up there ayway
[01:46] <rjenks> With my experiment, pressure is everything
[01:47] <rjenks> I'm not trying to measure altitude with the pressure sensor. I'll use a gps for that
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[01:47] <Darkside> im not sure what you should use then, sorry
[01:47] <rjenks> I'm trying to measure pressure inside the balloon vs outside
[01:47] <Darkside> oh
[01:47] <Darkside> you want a differential pressure sensor then
[01:47] <Darkside> mattbrejza has done this
[01:47] <rjenks> Well, I was planning to use two sensors and compare the data
[01:47] <Darkside> but he will be asleep now
[01:47] <Darkside> nah
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[01:48] <Darkside> better to use a true diffrential pressure sensor
[01:48] <Darkside> with a tube going into the balloon neck
[01:48] <rjenks> I'm not familiar with those. I will google.
[01:48] <Darkside> anyway, mattbrejza has done this
[01:48] <rjenks> ok, thanks
[01:48] <Darkside> but they're all asleep
[01:48] <Darkside> all the UK guys will be waking up in 6 hours or so
[01:48] <Darkside> where are you locatd?
[01:49] <rjenks> Dallas
[01:49] <Darkside> ahh
[01:49] <rjenks> you?
[01:49] <Darkside> adelaide, south australia
[01:49] <rjenks> cool
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[02:10] <rjenks> I think I mau have found a better pressure sensor.
[02:10] <rjenks> http://dx.com/p/gy-63-ms5611-high-resolution-atmospheric-pressure-height-sensor-module-for-arduino-148866
[02:11] <rjenks> It uses the GY-63 chip which has a range of 10hPa-1200hPa compared to the BMP085 which has a range of 300hPa to 1100hPa.
[02:12] <rjenks> Unfortunately both of them have the same -40C temperature limit and it's likely to go below that for some time during the flight
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[03:46] <Joel_re_> can someone look at my gqrx capture and tell me if Im tuned in correctly
[03:46] <Joel_re_> I still cant get dl-fldigi to decode the rtty stream
[03:47] <Joel_re_> http://www.wikiupload.com/NG2SVEWT2V19FMR
[03:47] <Joel_re_> thats a wav file - 8Mb
[03:47] <Joel_re_> I can't figure what Im doing wrong
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[04:00] <Darkside> Joel_re_: upload a screenshot
[04:00] <Joel_re_> sure
[04:12] <Joel_re_> Darkside: http://picpaste.de/a-ZT97JkHw.jpg
[04:13] <Darkside> yah thats not in tune properly
[04:13] <Darkside> looks like you're on a sideband
[04:14] <Darkside> you should be seeing two 'fuzzy' lins, like the right line you see in the fldigi waterfall
[04:14] <Joel_re_> Darkside: you mean in gqrx?
[04:17] <Darkside> nah, you're looking for the fuxxy lines in fldigi
[04:17] <Darkside> but you will need to tune in gqrx
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[04:45] <Joel_re_> http://picpaste.de/pics/a-PcVWkDba.1382071510.jpg
[04:45] <Joel_re_> does that look any better
[04:45] Action: Joel_re_ wonders if he needs to do some reading up
[04:46] <Darkside> that looks better
[04:46] <Darkside> much better
[04:46] <Darkside> now you probably just ned to adjust the shift, and maybe put dl-fldigi into Rv mode
[04:46] <Darkside> (button at bottom right of dl-fldigi)
[04:47] <Joel_re_> turned on Rv
[04:47] <Darkside> your shift in dl-fldigi looks too large
[04:47] <Darkside> switch to a custom shift, and modify it until the red lines line up
[04:47] <Joel_re_> what do you mean by shift exactly
[04:47] <Darkside> tone spacing
[04:47] <Joel_re_> sorry Im a noob at this
[04:48] <Darkside> Op Mode -> RTTY -> Custom
[04:48] <Darkside> set Carrier shift to Custom
[04:48] <Darkside> and adjust with the arrows
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[06:25] <niftylettuce> I'm trying to get my live feed showing from my #808 16 V2 camera through my MinimOSD connected to my APM 2.5 board. For some reason, the video overlay is not showing on the HUD in Mission Planner, Andropilot, nor qGroundControl. Does anyone know why?
[06:30] <WillTablet> craag does your course include CS?
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[06:47] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[07:03] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTXfAtckS3g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[07:03] <arko> Watch this to start your day!
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[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> pretty cool arko :)
[07:07] <arko> Gave me a good laugh
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[07:07] <arko> I need to find my bed
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> lol, good night
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> I need to get off to college
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[07:12] <f5vnf> arko: you need to get out more
[07:18] <arko> f5vnf: I'm out drinking, finding my bed miles away
[07:18] <arko> Is now the new challenge
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[07:19] <arko> I'm too outside at the moment
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[07:26] <SP3OSJ> Good morning Europe, Goodnight America! I ask you to estimate the amount of wind NOAA 5000, 6000, 7000m Start 19.10.2013r 6:00 GMT Point Latitude 53.185200, Longitude 16.752710
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[07:30] <x-f> SP3OSJ, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/176676_trj001.gif
[07:31] <x-f> SP3OSJ, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajsrc.pl
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[07:45] <eroomde> 1wk since my last coffee
[07:45] <eroomde> i think i'm out of the woods
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> can you live w/o it?!
[07:46] <eroomde> so far managed
[07:46] <eroomde> i'm going to try a month without it
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> CoFe2
[07:47] <eroomde> its hard, i used to drink a lot of coffee
[07:47] <eroomde> and have strong opinions about roasting temperature profiles, and other hallmarks of bored undergraduatism
[07:47] <LeoBodnar> lots->none quite a change
[07:47] <eroomde> yes
[07:47] <eroomde> it was a rough weekend
[07:47] <eroomde> i've been having 1 cup of earl grey a day since
[07:48] <eroomde> so i haven't gone totally caffeine cold turkey
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> get a rock garden
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> is it really caffeine or is it in one's head?
[07:48] <eroomde> and wear a large bit of cloth
[07:49] <eroomde> i'm not sure. i definitely had bad headaches and painful joints and so on at the weekend
[07:49] <eroomde> thought it was flu
[07:49] <LeoBodnar> Japanese tea ceremony is mostly for looks
[07:49] <LeoBodnar> While Chinese is for tea itself
[07:54] <SP3OSJ> XF: thank you very much
[07:55] <eroomde> my tea is party ritual
[07:55] <x-f> you're welcome
[07:55] <eroomde> i miss the coffee ritual a lot
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[07:58] <LeoBodnar> Have you tried Oolong tea? I am not sure about its caffeine content but some its taste spectrum covers all [un]imaginable range
[07:58] <LeoBodnar> Some of it is so powerful it can knock you out and some is very subtle.
[07:59] <eroomde> i'm a complete tea novice
[07:59] <eroomde> i've had builders and earl grey
[08:00] <LeoBodnar> And you need proper kit to enjoy it in fullest.
[08:00] <SP3OSJ> Only: yerba mate
[08:01] <LeoBodnar> Chinese tea to common tea is what proper food to McDonald's
[08:01] <SP3OSJ> yerba mate and.... pure mind, pure heart!!!!
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> But check caffeine contents if you want to dive into this - I am not sure on that point
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[08:07] <LeoBodnar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolong "Though the caffeine content in a given brew of tea may vary based on the brewing method, variety of tea, and number of extractions, Oolong tea in general contains caffeine, albeit less than black tea"
[08:08] <eroomde> ok
[08:08] <eroomde> will check it out
[08:09] <eroomde> i do like robust which i think is caffeine free
[08:09] <eroomde> i might see if that substitutes out
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[08:14] <Steve_G0TDJ> Morning
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[08:16] <SP3OSJ> I do not like tea with milk is not good. Have you eaten at one time: Kiszkony ogorek?
[08:16] <M6GTG_Andrew> Morning Steve
[08:19] <SP3OSJ> My grandmother is doing good: "Kiszony ogorek". Very very goood, very very nice
[08:19] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: My wife swears by them but I am indifferent
[08:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> You what? Hi Andy.
[08:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> M6GTG_Andrew [~kvirc@cpc19-nwrk4-2-0-cust202.12-1.cable.virginmedia.com] requested CTCP DCC from Steve_G0TDJ: CHAT chat 1365411275 61706
[08:21] <LeoBodnar> Yo Steve
[08:21] <M6GTG_Andrew> Steve_G0TDJ: Sorry new irc client
[08:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> lol
[08:22] <SP3OSJ> What? swears by them but I am indifferent. what do you people eat? cannibalism "oh my God!"
[08:22] <DL1SGP1> good morning folks!
[08:23] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[08:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> M6GTG_Andrew: New?? what New irc clients have been made this century? ;)
[08:26] <M6GTG_Andrew> Reb-SM3ULC: Well new to me..
[08:27] Nick change: M6GTG_Andrew -> Andrew_M6GTG
[08:28] <SP3OSJ> Leo is busy now eats wife
[08:30] <Andrew_M6GTG> Fnarr! Fnarr!
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[08:31] <Joel_re> is it that hard to tune into the nxt2, I tried for 3 hours today and couldnt get RTTY to decode
[08:31] <SP3OSJ> Leo like spam?
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[08:32] <SP3OSJ> SPAM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
[08:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> Andrew_M6GTG: My irssi played tricks on me the other day and I've been using it for 10+ years.
[08:35] <x-f> Joel_re, could it be that your transmitter isn't putting out a correct RTTY?
[08:36] <x-f> something wrong with timings, perhaps
[08:36] <x-f> also, a recording would help
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[08:37] <Joel_re> x-f: http://www.wikiupload.com/NG2SVEWT2V19FMR
[08:38] <Joel_re> 8Mb wav file
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[08:53] <x-f> Joel_re, what are your RTTY parameters?
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[08:54] <x-f> your signal is reversed, btw, mark should be on the right side, but that's a minor issue
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[08:55] <Joel_re> x-f: the carrier shift 350, Ascii 8, 1 stop bit, 50 baud
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[08:56] <Joel_re> or its supposed to be 350 as per the design Im following
[08:56] <Joel_re> but it turns out to be around 300
[08:56] <Joel_re> when I tune in fl-digi
[08:56] <fsphil> breadboard?
[08:56] <Joel_re> yes
[08:57] <fsphil> could be changing your resistance
[08:57] <Joel_re> oh hrm
[09:00] <x-f> hmm, i don't know
[09:01] Action: Joel_re should read up, since he would be the only one tuning into the ntx2 in his area
[09:01] <x-f> you are using some funky microcontroller there, right?
[09:01] <Joel_re> the msp430
[09:02] <Joel_re> Im pretty much following his footsteps - http://academy.cba.mit.edu/2012/students/pello.david/classes/project_development/
[09:02] <Joel_re> http://academy.cba.mit.edu/2012/students/pello.david/classes/project_development/rtty.h
[09:03] <Joel_re> http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8160/alr.png
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[09:04] <Andrew_M6GTG> Joel_re: what is the text data in that wav file?
[09:05] <bertrik> do you really need seperate lines for mark and space? I think it can be just one line that goes high and low
[09:05] <Joel_re> Andrew_M6GTG: deadbeef
[09:05] <fsphil> Joel_re: that doesn't sound like 50 baud
[09:06] <Joel_re> I probably have the clock wrong then
[09:06] <fsphil> actually maybe it's ok
[09:06] <fsphil> it sounded a bit quick, but comparing it against another recording it might be fine
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[09:09] <Joel_re> bertrik: you're right, I thought of changing that, once I got it to work
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[09:18] <bertrik> In audacity I see bits about 26.8 ms apart, equivalent to about 37 baud
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[09:20] <SP3OSJ> habhub
[09:20] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
[09:20] <x-f> /join #habhub
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[09:21] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:22] <x-f> hello
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[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> how's life?
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[09:23] <Andrew_M6GTG> Joel_re: Is the text "DEADBEEF" or is it four bytes 0xDE,0xAD,0xBE,0xEF? getting the same four 'characters' when decoding each data burst
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[09:26] <fsphil> bertrik: yea I got 37 baud too
[09:27] <fsphil> it's difficult to make out the bits in audacity though
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[09:29] <Joel_re> Andrew_M6GTG: the text I pass to rtty_txstring is "deadbeef"
[09:29] <Joel_re> http://academy.cba.mit.edu/2012/students/pello.david/classes/project_development/rtty.c
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[09:30] <Joel_re> he seems to transmit that as a byte
[09:30] <Joel_re> which is why you're seeing it that way I guess
[09:30] <Joel_re> or not, hes sending out chars
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[09:31] <fsphil> that code looks familiar
[09:32] <daveake> I see no "deadbeef"
[09:32] <Joel_re> its similar to the one on the wiki
[09:32] <Joel_re> daveake: sorry, Im only using his function to transmit "deadbeef"
[09:32] <bertrik> the baud rate is nonstandard, I'd fix that first
[09:33] <Joel_re> bertrik: you mean its not 50?
[09:33] <Joel_re> sorry I timed out there
[09:33] <bertrik> no, it looks like 37 baud or so
[09:33] <Joel_re> wow
[09:33] <Joel_re> hrm
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[09:33] <fsphil> does __delay_cycles do what you expect?
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[09:34] <Joel_re> fsphil: RTTY_BAUDRATE was set to 50, I'll re-check
[09:34] <bertrik> you can check by loading the wav in audacity, change to "spectrogram view", zoom in until you see the bits, then measure duration of a bunch of bits
[09:35] <Joel_re> fsphil: I try to measure the clock as well
[09:35] <fsphil> Joel_re: not that bit. I mean are you sure __delay_cycles() does what you think it does?
[09:35] <fsphil> a cycle might not be the same as a millisecond
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[09:35] <Joel_re> fsphil: that would depend on the clock speed I guess, I have to confirm
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[09:37] <fsphil> #define RTTY_BAUDRATE_50 20150*(CPU_CLOCK/1000000)
[09:38] <fsphil> check CPU_CLOCK is correct
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[09:38] <fsphil> wonder where 20150 comes from
[09:39] <bertrik> trial-and-error? :D
[09:39] <daveake> Doesn't seem right. I'd expect it to be a tad less than 20000 not more
[09:40] <daveake> Anyway delays are for losers :/
[09:40] <fsphil> ah, it's from the ukhas wiki
[09:40] <fsphil> yea it should be 20000
[09:40] <daveake> it is
[09:40] <daveake> I googled it :p
[09:40] <fsphil> really must take that out
[09:42] <Joel_re> fsphil: CPU_CLOCK was set to 1Mhz
[09:42] <Joel_re> Im at work right now, hence cannot test, but will note any suggestions
[09:42] <fsphil> what is it really?
[09:42] <bertrik> if CPU_CLOCK is a non-integer multiple of 1 MHz, that calculation is not very accurate
[09:44] <LeoBodnar> Hex art time
[09:48] <Joel_re> I guess thats what I get for copy pasting code
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[09:49] <LeoBodnar> 0xAD0BE15BAD
[09:51] <Gadget-Mac> Upu around ?
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[09:55] <UpuWork> yup
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[09:58] <nats`> hi guys
[09:58] <eroomde> overheard from boss: "We have an employee handbook, apparently. I don't actually know where it is."
[09:59] <nats`> employee handbook teach manager how to (ab)use employee ?
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[09:59] <fsphil> user manual?
[10:00] <nats`> I have a joke in head by that's rude and dirty
[10:00] Action: nats` loves when it's dirty
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> A handbook on how to use an employee?
[10:05] <nats`> there was employee hand and job inside the joke but now that's ruined :D
[10:06] <eroomde> nats`, apparently we had to have one to be a supplier to ESA
[10:06] <nats`> oO
[10:06] <eroomde> so one was quickly made
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[10:06] <eroomde> along with all the other things they think companies shoud have
[10:06] <fsphil> what business is it of ESA?
[10:06] <nats`> those crap with "don't harass female employee, don't smoke in the WC, ..." ?
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[10:07] <Gadget-Mac> UpuWork: HABbuino.......
[10:09] <Gadget-Mac> The schematic mentions R1 & R4 for control of the output voltage from the stepup convertor but thaey arn't present, have they been removed ?
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[10:15] <UpuWork> they are there if you're using the variable version of the TPS chip
[10:16] <UpuWork> I'll check it later
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[10:19] <DL7AD> Good afternoon
[10:19] <Gadget-Mac> UpuWork: Cool Thanks.
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[10:43] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24575795
[10:43] <Laurenceb> i knew this was happening already...
[10:43] <Laurenceb> they got my number somehow
[10:43] <Laurenceb> apparently im an illegal
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[10:51] <fsphil> I knew it
[10:51] <gonzo_> it's worth calling anyway, just for the fun of it
[10:52] <gonzo_> specially if you have a uk passport
[10:53] <LazyLeopard> Another Government SNAFU... ;)
[10:55] <Laurenceb> i could actually be an illegal immigrant
[10:55] <Laurenceb> implanted with false memories...
[10:55] <bertrik> an alien even
[10:57] <eroomde> it would explain a lot
[10:57] <fsphil> terrible disguise though
[10:59] <nats`> a robot ?
[11:00] <eroomde> Laurenceb is real
[11:00] <eroomde> some of us have touched him
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[11:02] <nats`> oO
[11:02] <nats`> Laurenceb your news article seems soo unreal
[11:02] <nats`> I feel like reading a 1984
[11:03] <Laurenceb> its real on my phone :P
[11:03] <nats`> there are truck like that in the street ?
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[11:07] <eroomde> i think there was one truck that went around with that on
[11:07] <eroomde> they got in trobule for it
[11:08] <nats`> remind me the movie "Children of men"
[11:08] <nats`> and other in same style
[11:10] <Lunar_LanderU> the truck seems
[11:10] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah really Nazi like if I may say that
[11:12] <nats`> I think you can
[11:16] <fsphil> the government does seem a bit xenophobic recently
[11:17] <nats`> it's the standard scheme of global crisis
[11:17] <nats`> that's frightening because once again it show Humanity can't learn from the past
[11:17] <gonzo_> <eroomde> some of us have touched him
[11:17] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:18] <gonzo_> in the currrent climate, a dodgy thing to say
[11:18] <eroomde> he's over the age of consent
[11:18] <gonzo_> we have some machines called 'toddlers'
[11:18] <fsphil> oh dear
[11:18] <gonzo_> imagine the dodgy phrases we hear
[11:19] <Lunar_LanderU> btw, the Nazi party NPD in germany actually sent letters to candidates of other parties running for parliament this september, the candidates having their origin not in germany
[11:20] <Lunar_LanderU> they sent them mock flight tickets "From: Germany" "Destination: Your Country of Origin"
[11:20] <Lunar_LanderU> with a letter "It would be the best for both of us if you return to your original country"
[11:20] <Lunar_LanderU> how crap is that?
[11:21] <Laurenceb> not as crap as flooding my phone with spam
[11:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> ping UpuWork
[11:22] <gonzo_> the go home phrase is in the uk is always amusing as that could be leveled at amyone but tyhe celts and wensh
[11:22] <gonzo_> welsh
[11:23] <nats`> like anywhere in the world
[11:23] <nats`> I don't think we have many pure blood "gaullois" in France
[11:24] <gonzo_> especially these days
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[11:24] <Lunar_LanderU> do the Scots btw really consider dropping out of the UK next year?
[11:24] <Lunar_LanderU> papers ran that front page here
[11:25] <gonzo_> I did hear some good news about my ancestry recently. Though my gran was welsh. Turns out she was only half welsh. result!
[11:25] <fsphil> lol
[11:25] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[11:26] <fsphil> my mums family is scottish, dads is english
[11:26] <fsphil> so I'm quite conflicted :)
[11:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:26] <Lunar_LanderU> the conflict in Belgium is quite big still
[11:27] <Lunar_LanderU> learned that the Uni of Brussels has a french and a dutch part which do not communicate with each other
[11:27] <gonzo_> the scots have been banging that drum for years. They will claim independence in the pub, but in realitym, they's be screwed
[11:27] <Lunar_LanderU> once there was a fire in the one segment that the other did ignore
[11:27] <fsphil> kinda hoping they don't vote for it
[11:27] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:27] <gonzo_> that sounds like an ideal marriage then. They actually have a good reason to argue
[11:27] <fsphil> the world should be getting closer, not further apart
[11:28] <gonzo_> you would get dual nataionality phil
[11:28] <Lunar_LanderU> Gavin & Stacey but other country xD
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[11:31] <UpuWork> hi Steve_G0TDJ
[11:31] <nats`> We should create a new country to put all the dumbass of the wolrd and let them do the auto cleaning process !
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[11:31] <fsphil> didn't we already do that? :)
[11:34] <nats`> sadly not :p
[11:35] <Lunar_LanderU> wasn't that the idea of australia?
[11:35] <UpuWork> hah
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[11:41] <daveake> We should ask Darkside for his opinion :p
[11:41] <rwsq1> I think it would be hard for scotland to be independent, but if they want it, good luck to them
[11:43] <rwsq1> they could save a lot of money they would have had to spend on their share of nuclear weapons and have it to use on other stuff
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[11:43] <rwsq1> I wish the UK would do that anyway
[11:43] <X-Scale> http://youtu.be/raiFrxbHxV0
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[11:46] <Lunar_LanderU> final scene of Terminator 3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24564375
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[12:22] <eroomde> adamgreig, what new ipython joy have you discovered today?
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[12:30] <gross> hi folks, can anyone confirm that the cusf predictor is accurate enough 2 days in advance that I shouldn't get my hopes up when it predicts a sea landing this weekend? or could anything happen?
[12:31] <UpuWork> only as accurate as the weather forecasts
[12:31] <UpuWork> I'd call it 1 day in advance
[12:31] <UpuWork> 2 days is keep an eye on it
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> In general - you can get at least some idea by doing a simple analysis.
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> If the path is the same - or similar - launched +-3 hours, and at several points within 10km - it's more likely to be accurate.
[12:34] <Hix> (12:22:16)<gonzo_>the go home phrase is in the uk is always amusing as that could be leveled at amyone but tyhe celts and wensh - something I pointed out to a retard in a pub one night when he got fired up by some Daily Mailesqu shite about immigration. I pointed out the danelaw and asked him whether he'd prefer Denmark or Norway for his deporting....
[12:35] <gross> yes, it seems to be heading in to the sea at any launch time between 08:00 and 16:00 for both sat/sun. this is the risk from launching from Inverness.
[12:35] <eroomde> it's more accurate for simpler systems
[12:35] <Lunar_LanderU> Hix: what law is that?
[12:35] <Lunar_LanderU> about denmark and norway
[12:35] <eroomde> i.e. in the forcast is just generally wind in the same direction high speed all the way through to the weekend, that's unlikely to change
[12:36] <Hix> Lunar_LanderU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danelaw
[12:36] <eroomde> but if there's lots and loads of business in the forecast, there's a lot more variability as that's harder to predict
[12:36] <Lunar_LanderU> ah not law in justice but a place
[12:36] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks Hix
[12:36] <Hix> nps
[12:36] <eroomde> eg a storm might take 6 hours to go across you, in that time the winds will be in all directions as the leading edge and trailing edge passes over you
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[12:37] <eroomde> so sometimes you have to time it down to the last couple of hours
[12:37] <eroomde> but we would generally make a call at T-24hrs
[12:37] <gross> forecast has been fairly constant through the week. I'll watch it up to the last minute though...
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[12:40] <fsphil> it has been quite steady for mine too
[12:44] <adamgreig> eroomde: I'm working on the ipython parallel thing atm
[12:45] <adamgreig> but "working"
[12:45] <adamgreig> apparently 90 min coffee+cake breaks are not unusual
[12:45] <adamgreig> your name was mentioned again today
[12:45] <adamgreig> and that coffee break ended just about lunch time
[12:45] <adamgreig> but I have an ipython cluster running atm, just need to figure out how to run my code on it
[12:47] <Hix> "in August 2013, Microsoft contributed $100,000 to support the continued development of IPython"
[12:47] <Hix> just to cheer you both up
[12:47] <Hix> Is iPython a good environment for learning with?
[12:48] <adamgreig> maybe? it's a super environment for doing research and work in
[12:48] <adamgreig> but it depends really
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[12:48] <adamgreig> I'd probably learn python without it
[12:52] <Hix> I like the look of the inline plots etc. being able to save it all in one doc seems handy for dropping and then picking up where you left off
[12:53] <adamgreig> yea it's really great for maths and plotting and science stuff
[12:53] <adamgreig> less useful for developing actual programs and thinking about splitting things into modules etc
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[12:56] <Hix> "it's really great for maths and plotting and science stuff" is exactly what I had in mind initially :)
[12:59] <eroomde> adamgreig, in what context was my name mentioned?
[12:59] <eroomde> and also yes
[12:59] <eroomde> you can loose whole afternoons to coffee
[12:59] <eroomde> welcome to PhD
[12:59] <adamgreig> someone was saying they were sure you were a much better engineer than them
[13:00] <adamgreig> we were discussing interview techniques and whether you try to optimise for tripos scores or actual engineering ability or what
[13:03] <eroomde> that chestnut
[13:05] <eroomde> similarly has anyone approached you about supervising?
[13:05] <adamgreig> not yet. not really clear how it works. my college dos strongly implied he'd like me to supervise in college at the end of last term
[13:05] <adamgreig> but not seen him since
[13:05] <adamgreig> suspect it's a bit late in this term to do supervisions in this term
[13:06] <eroomde> yeah
[13:06] <adamgreig> demonstrating appears to involve emailing each respective lab leader to offer your demonstrating services so likewise I should probably have done that earlier
[13:06] <adamgreig> though if I could load on supervising instead of demonstrating that'd be fine with me too
[13:06] <eroomde> you'll be on a list
[13:06] <eroomde> yes
[13:06] <eroomde> well, the former pays quite well
[13:06] <eroomde> the latter pays nothing
[13:06] <adamgreig> demonstrating does technically pay a tiny bit
[13:06] <adamgreig> but yea
[13:06] <eroomde> so what are you reading about atm?
[13:06] <adamgreig> also supervising seems more fun
[13:07] <eroomde> yes much more fun
[13:07] <adamgreig> network information theory
[13:07] <adamgreig> and communications generally
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[13:07] <adamgreig> I have an actual description for my PhD now (the epsrc form required it)
[13:07] <eroomde> C-v
[13:07] <adamgreig> http://pastie.org/private/zacusmohnvey2rlkmvbca
[13:08] <adamgreig> haha wow ipython cluster just broke my machine
[13:09] <adamgreig> used all the 16GB of RAM then everything crashed
[13:09] <adamgreig> amazing
[13:09] <adamgreig> chrome just broke royally
[13:10] <adamgreig> need more RAM clearly
[13:11] <mattbrejza> or you actually need to use a cluster rather than your own machine?
[13:11] <adamgreig> that would be nice too but I don't have a cluster handy
[13:12] <mattbrejza> cant you get access now youre a pg?
[13:12] <adamgreig> there's not really anything to get access to
[13:12] <adamgreig> the teaching system has eight fairly chunky machines I can ssh too, but in term time they should really be for teaching
[13:13] <adamgreig> sigproc doesn't have its own cluster
[13:13] <adamgreig> the central university one I don't have grant money to pay for
[13:13] <DL7AD> shredder machine ^^ airliners.net/photo/Germania/Boeing-737-329/1589920/M/ http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germania/Boeing-737-329/1589919/M/
[13:13] <mattbrejza> thers no uni wide / eng wide cluster?
[13:13] <adamgreig> the uni wide one is shared between a pretty big uni, so access is a faff so far as I can tell, and costs money that I don't have
[13:13] <mattbrejza> oh right :/
[13:13] <adamgreig> there's no eng central one really. divisions might have their own but mine doesn't I don't think
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[13:15] <mattbrejza> http://www.southampton.ac.uk/mediacentre/news/2013/oct/13_186.shtml :P
[13:15] <mattbrejza> awaiting access
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[13:16] <adamgreig> gimme some :P
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[13:17] <mattbrejza> if i were you id start writing for the gpu and see if you can get a gpu from somewhere
[13:19] <adamgreig> apparently I get £1k/yr from my grant for equipment
[13:19] <adamgreig> but it's equipment+travel/conferences
[13:19] <adamgreig> and I suspect my first year computer used up the bulk of that already
[13:19] <eroomde> yeah
[13:19] <adamgreig> will ask and see if there's enough left for a gpu though, that'd be nice
[13:19] <eroomde> i suspect one single conference would use the bulk of that
[13:19] <adamgreig> gpu isn't gonna have much ram tho
[13:19] <adamgreig> indeed
[13:19] <eroomde> thankflly supervisors can usually mix and match
[13:19] <adamgreig> though there are other grants available
[13:20] <adamgreig> college has some money too apparently
[13:20] <mattbrejza> depends what you want to sim as far as ram usage goes
[13:20] <adamgreig> yea it's just that I'm doing 8 sims in parallel and some of them are generating some seriously large codebooks
[13:20] <mattbrejza> also soton uni is bigger student # wise than cam
[13:20] <mattbrejza> oh right
[13:21] <adamgreig> like how big I wonder
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[13:22] <eroomde> so have you got to know any more people in your lab?
[13:22] <eroomde> eg any more people that are more sort of my vintage?
[13:23] <mattbrejza> hey fsphil is that the shortest time from announcement to cancelling?
[13:23] <fsphil> I believe so mattbrejza
[13:23] <adamgreig> lol 1E9 elements in my codebook
[13:23] <adamgreig> and eight of them
[13:23] <fsphil> we need a table on the wiki :)
[13:23] <adamgreig> all doubles so 8 bytes
[13:24] <eroomde> nice
[13:24] <eroomde> needs moar ramz
[13:24] <adamgreig> that's 64GB
[13:24] <adamgreig> now wonder I ran out
[13:24] <adamgreig> shame it crashed instead of being sensible
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[13:24] <adamgreig> wrt people, a few clearly know you, but I'm not sure what their names are yet :P
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, UpuWork, I've received the parts minus the Taoglas Antenna but everything else has arrived ok :)
[13:29] <malgar> Upu: ping
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[13:30] <adamgreig> redistributed my work a bit so the large codebook jobs run alongside the small ones
[13:30] <adamgreig> rather than all the big ones at once
[13:30] <adamgreig> and dropped down to 4 at a time
[13:30] <adamgreig> and now it works a bit better
[13:30] <adamgreig> slower tho :P
[13:30] <adamgreig> but I added a nice progress bar thing so that's ok
[13:32] <malgar> UpuWork: PING
[13:35] <adamgreig> oh python. memoryerror. :(
[13:38] <eroomde> wrt people, i don't know of any if your lab
[13:38] <eroomde> i don't think
[13:38] <eroomde> but it's all changed anyway
[13:38] <eroomde> i mean your office
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[13:41] <eroomde> just used the export to pdf via latex thing on ipython
[13:41] <eroomde> works nicely enough
[13:42] <adamgreig> oh I should try that
[13:42] <adamgreig> nbconvert?
[13:43] <eroomde> yes
[13:43] <eroomde> but it's now built in
[13:43] <eroomde> thus
[13:44] <adamgreig> how? I'm on 1.1.0 but don't see it?
[13:44] <eroomde> ipython nbconvert --to latex --post PDF mynotebook.ipynb
[13:44] <adamgreig> oh right
[13:44] <adamgreig> want a link on ipynb to download as pdf really
[13:44] <eroomde> yes but it doesn't
[13:44] <adamgreig> indeed
[13:45] <eroomde> well it might, but it wouldn't rernder all the md as tex
[13:45] <eroomde> this way does
[13:45] <adamgreig> it could do
[13:45] <eroomde> sure but i guess that might be an annoying default for a lot of people
[13:45] <adamgreig> I mean it renders it in mathjax on the web page
[13:45] <eroomde> who would first have to pull in texlive-full
[13:45] <adamgreig> and it could just run nbconvert on the kernel from the browser
[13:45] <adamgreig> oh hmm yes
[13:45] <adamgreig> texlive-full is not a thing you do lightly
[13:47] <adamgreig> hmm want to scale this matplotlib axis really
[13:48] <eroomde> you can my son
[13:48] <eroomde> i would like the defaul matplotlib output to be a bit bigger really
[13:48] <adamgreig> scaled the x values I was plotting instead. think that works just the same
[13:48] <adamgreig> so change your .matplotlibrc or whatever it is
[13:49] <eroomde> maybe i just will
[13:50] <eroomde> i'd also like the code window to have some kinda 80char marker as it doesn't wrap in the latex rendering
[13:50] <adamgreig> ah yes
[13:50] <adamgreig> that would be handy
[13:50] <adamgreig> or just lint it against pep8 :P
[13:50] <eroomde> harder to automate that
[13:50] <eroomde> would be nice if it was all in-browser
[13:50] <adamgreig> I guess yea
[13:50] <adamgreig> could totally do it in browser though
[13:51] <adamgreig> there are js linters
[13:52] <adamgreig> I quite enjoyed writing some docs up last night in markdown then using pandoc to make a PDF via latex
[13:52] <adamgreig> much easier for the class of things that's mostly text, code, HTTP examples, etc and not so much maths
[13:52] <eroomde> yeah
[13:53] <adamgreig> how do you set author in nbconvert?
[13:53] <adamgreig> I'm getting "Unknown Author"
[13:55] <eroomde> unsure
[13:56] <eroomde> havsn't crossed that bridge yet either
[13:56] <adamgreig> wow, my stuff keeps crashing in exciting ways
[13:56] <adamgreig> gnome-terminal just fell over
[13:56] <malgar> I found Arduino UNO SMD.. is SMD ok for hab?
[13:56] <eroomde> is this all ipython parallel doing woo to you?
[13:57] <eroomde> malgar, no all the bits explode
[13:57] <Hix> malgar, most peoples boards are SMD now
[13:57] <eroomde> definitely don't use smd on anything
[13:57] <adamgreig> might have just used too much memory and making things sad
[13:57] <eroomde> ever
[13:57] <adamgreig> can't tell
[13:57] <adamgreig> it's not running atm
[13:57] <adamgreig> should probably memcheck this thing
[13:57] <adamgreig> wonder if they just bought the cheapest offbrand ram they could find
[13:57] <eroomde> yeah
[13:57] <ve6ts> i wish i could solder smd, it's just too small
[13:57] <eroomde> would save hunting for more intelligent bugs
[13:57] <ve6ts> smd is better for hab due to weight/size
[13:57] <eroomde> it's easy peasy
[13:58] <Hix> ve6ts its notthat bad
[13:58] <eroomde> stereo microscope if the eyes can't keep up
[13:58] <Hix> apart from MAX7/7, thats my nemesis
[13:58] <ibanezmatt13> I have to try and solder a TPS61201 by hand! That's hard
[13:59] <Hix> ve6ts you could probably use a webcam as a digital scope
[13:59] <adamgreig> eroomde: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/urls/randomskk.net/u/sparc.ipynb anyway
[13:59] <adamgreig> check out the very bottom chart
[13:59] <ve6ts> Hix it's more of my hands aren't very steady
[13:59] <Hix> ve6ts glue them to the bench then - sorted
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[14:01] <eroomde> you'll have to provide me some context
[14:01] <adamgreig> green line is shannon
[14:01] <adamgreig> blue line is my thing being close ish
[14:01] <eroomde> oh right!
[14:01] <eroomde> nice
[14:01] <ve6ts> on some of my hab lauches to keep the cost/weight/size down, i simply solder everything together in open air with wires, it's a pain but some weight savings
[14:02] <eroomde> in true ham prototype style too
[14:02] <eroomde> so extra points for that
[14:02] <ve6ts> eroomde yup
[14:02] <adamgreig> if you scroll up to [13], that chart is 71 bytes for 128 N(0,1) samples with distortion 0.02
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[14:02] <adamgreig> so about 4 bits per sample
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[14:03] <eroomde> is the explicityly ignoreing the return values from plt funcions a style thing?
[14:03] <adamgreig> yea
[14:03] <Hix> this is genius XKCDify your matplotlib plots http://goo.gl/cjZeV2
[14:03] <adamgreig> it stops it outputting the resutl of the final plt call
[14:04] <Hix> every report needs that - I'm definitely going to try and incorporate that into work :D
[14:04] <adamgreig> Hix: yea I enjoyed that - one of the reasons I build my own latest matplotlib, it has plt.xkcd()
[14:04] <eroomde> (16,8)
[14:04] <eroomde> memorised
[14:05] <eroomde> that's impressive compression btw
[14:05] <ve6ts> does anyone here have any experience with zero pressure balloons? I'm wondering if you have bought them, or made them from say a lightweight garbage bag / etc
[14:05] <adamgreig> yea it's not bad huh
[14:05] <adamgreig> considering how simple it is theoretically
[14:05] <adamgreig> you do need to have the large random codebook available to compress/decompress
[14:06] <adamgreig> which might be cheating a bit
[14:06] <eroomde> well yes
[14:06] <adamgreig> but the codebook is static so
[14:06] <eroomde> the ultimate version of that was the third year impression compression project
[14:06] <eroomde> 'if the first bit is 1, it's lenna'
[14:06] <adamgreig> haha
[14:06] <adamgreig> solid compression
[14:06] <adamgreig> this generalises a bit better to unknown data ;)
[14:07] <adamgreig> but the codebook size does kinda determine your compression rate and computational complexity
[14:07] <adamgreig> but that's ok really
[14:07] <adamgreig> you can truncate it for lower rate or complexity I think
[14:07] <adamgreig> anyway the hard part is going to be using this same theory for channel coding rather than compression
[14:07] <adamgreig> compression is the simple bit
[14:08] <adamgreig> (the real hard bit is going to be understanding the theoretical background enough to build upon it)
[14:11] <eroomde> i can imagine that
[14:11] <eroomde> i don't enjoy you
[14:11] <eroomde> er
[14:11] <eroomde> envy
[14:11] <adamgreig> lol
[14:12] <adamgreig> oh well. got three years.
[14:13] <eroomde> thought really just the one year to get to get upto speed :)
[14:13] <adamgreig> well I guess I need something to show for myself by the end of the year :P
[14:14] <adamgreig> but I've got my two modules (one even has coursework!) to keep me busy too
[14:14] <ve6ts> i was wondering if you are not allowed to use ham radio in the UK for ballooning, can you use it why flying in an airplane? eg mobile air
[14:14] <adamgreig> nope
[14:14] <adamgreig> no /AM at all
[14:15] <ve6ts> hmm, i feel for you, glade we do not have that problem in Canada, I use amateur radio while flying and of course for hab
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[14:16] <adamgreig> would love to do that
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[14:16] <ve6ts> someday i want to try an aiborne store and forward voice repeater
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[14:21] <ve6ts> i'm getting the itch to launch another hab already, my last was only 1 week ago :)
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[14:32] <adamgreig> ooh ubuntu 13.10 is out now
[14:32] <adamgreig> time to upgrade
[14:32] <fsphil> to debian? :)
[14:33] <adamgreig> haha
[14:33] <adamgreig> sadly it turns out the uni mirrors don't have it yet
[14:33] <adamgreig> so I guess I'll wait
[14:33] <fsphil> you could probably install it direct from the mirror quicker than downloading+installing
[14:34] <adamgreig> ?
[14:35] <fsphil> on fedora the installer can download from an http mirror directly instead of a dvd
[14:35] <adamgreig> oh yea
[14:35] <fsphil> I'm sure ubuntu has the same thing
[14:35] <adamgreig> ubuntu and debian can do that fine
[14:35] <adamgreig> but downloading the dvd probably quite speedy too
[14:36] <adamgreig> oh well. I can wait.
[14:38] <UpuWork> ping malgar
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[14:44] <Hix> http://goo.gl/98Ef8P
[14:45] <ve6ts> nice proof
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[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
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[15:29] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork ping
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[15:40] <PB1DFT> ..
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[15:41] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
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[15:51] <nats`> you know there is a problem when your xtal is twice the size of your uC
[15:51] <nats`> ....
[16:06] <Upu> thank you Steve_G0TDJ :)
[16:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> A pleasure Anthony :-)
[16:06] <DL1SGP1> :)
[16:08] <mattbrejza> so much for the new mailing list rule Upu :P
[16:11] <Upu> well :)
[16:12] <Upu> yes nats :) That why I use a 16Mhz crystal with the DIV/8 set and run my AVR's at 2Mhz
[16:14] <nats`> I'm talking about a 3.2x5 xtal :D
[16:14] <nats`> will switch to lower size
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[16:14] <ve6ts> does anyone here have any experience with zero pressure balloons? I'm wondering if you have bought them, or made them from say a lightweight garbage bag / etc
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[16:20] <WillTablet> craag BEng ECS sounds awesome
[16:21] <mattbrejza> youre a little way off that though?
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[16:42] <Willdude123> mattbrejza, yeah, but is still sounds awesome
[16:42] <mattbrejza> computer science or electronics?
[16:43] <Willdude123> Both.
[16:43] <Willdude123> Hence ECS
[16:43] <mattbrejza> well pick one
[16:43] <mattbrejza> theres no combined course
[16:43] <mattbrejza> although as you would expect electroncs has lots of programmig
[16:43] <arko> or if you are crazy and have time, double major it
[16:43] <arko> but its pointless
[16:44] <mattbrejza> yea not really a thing here
[16:44] <arko> get an EE and learn cs on your own
[16:44] <arko> ^^^^
[16:44] <mattbrejza> you can just choose more cs-y modules later in the course if thats what you prefer
[16:44] <arko> true
[16:45] <arko> its coffee time
[16:49] <DL1SGP1> good idea!
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[16:55] <eroomde> morning arko
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[17:13] <Steve_G0TDJ> Quick question for everyone - What effect does lowering temperature do to Lithium batteries?
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[17:18] <SpeedEvil> It makes them turn into princesses.
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> More seriously.
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> For most sorts.
[17:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL In that case, I'll stick some in the freezer NOW!
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> You can't chage under about 7C, the impedence rises - and once you get below -20C or so - the electrolyte freezes.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> And the impedence rises a lot.
[17:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm just toying with the idea of using AAAs instead of AAs for my flight
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh - lithium-iron
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> ignore the bit about charging then - and the performance at low temps isn't quite so bad
[17:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK. Yeah, they're Maplin extra longlife+
[17:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> Testing Tx time from fresh now
[17:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> after 1 hour they have dropped .1V
[17:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK maybe .2,,,
[17:23] <DL1SGP1> Maplin rocks :) was my favorite shopping place
[17:23] <ve6ts> i've had litium batteries down to -15C with no problems (inside my payload
[17:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Ah, Felix, I have one less than 10mins walk away from me :-)
[17:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Thanks ve6ts
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[17:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Leo :D
[17:24] <eroomde> fun
[17:24] <eroomde> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/
[17:24] <arko> sup eroomde
[17:24] <ve6ts> lowest recorded temp (outside) on my hab flights was -70C @ 65,000 ft
[17:24] <eroomde> lots of stuff
[17:25] <eroomde> we've continued making cool cad stuff
[17:25] <eroomde> ipython notebook is still great
[17:25] <eroomde> and other stories
[17:25] <Steve_G0TDJ> ve6ts: Thet's pretty good going
[17:25] <arko> nice!
[17:25] <eroomde> ve6ts, that is very cold
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[17:25] <eroomde> what latitude did you launch?
[17:25] <ve6ts> then my temps started going back upto about +7C @ 105,000ft
[17:25] <arko> made come cool friends at jpl a few weeks ago, and oddly enough one of the first things they were talking about was how aweosme ipython is
[17:26] <arko> assured me they are cool people
[17:26] <ve6ts> i launch from 512904N 1130911W
[17:26] <DL1SGP1> Was same distance for me Steve, and on the way to city centre (ASDA and other naughties)
[17:26] <arko> also yay solidworks
[17:26] <Steve_G0TDJ> Thanks for the help guys, gotta go for a while - 73
[17:26] <arko> i just ordered some powder/binder for our 3d printer
[17:26] <ve6ts> arko i would love to have a 3d printer
[17:27] <eroomde> nice
[17:27] <eroomde> got a quite back for some of the 3d printing stuff we want to try
[17:27] <eroomde> quite a lot!
[17:27] <eroomde> quote*
[17:32] <LeoBodnar> hey Steve!
[17:34] <LeoBodnar> I am divided on moral issues of applying "free spirit tech" to military and business
[17:37] <DL1SGP1> Good Evening LeoBodnar :) weather is getting more stable for the next days as it looks like :)
[17:37] <adamgreig> it's not very cheap is it eroomde
[17:39] <Willdude123> Starting to think my boards might have got lost in the post.
[17:39] <Willdude123> Will ask #hackvana
[17:39] <ve6ts> Willdude123 which boards did you order?
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[17:39] <DL1SGP1> oh hope they will make it there Willdude123 I kind of hate lost mail :(
[17:40] <Willdude123> I designed them, sent the design off to china, they got made and I'm waiting to get them back
[17:40] <ve6ts> i'm eagerly waiting for my aprs weather station, I want to mount it perminately at my HAB launch site
[17:40] <DL1SGP1> when were they sent out Willdude123?
[17:40] <ve6ts> Willdude123 cool, i was always thinking of getting that done for my hab boards
[17:40] <Willdude123> 23rd I think
[17:40] <Steve_G0TDJ> Willdude123: Mine arrived from Hackvana today, it was 11 days from order
[17:41] <Willdude123> That's HK post for you I guess
[17:41] <ve6ts> Willdude123 what is the min order for custom boards?
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[17:41] <Willdude123> 5 I think
[17:41] <ve6ts> wow, not bad
[17:42] <Steve_G0TDJ> ve6ts: Excellent quality - Have a look: http://projecthab.co.uk/2013/10/18/vayu-v1-01-pcbs/
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[17:43] <ve6ts> Steve_G0TDJ those are great boards
[17:44] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah, both from Hackvana
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[17:44] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm very impressed and definitely will use them for my next one.
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[17:45] <Steve_G0TDJ> Anyway, making dinner! Be back later.
[17:45] <DL1SGP1> enjoy your meal Steve
[17:46] <Steve_G0TDJ> cheerrs Felix! :D
[17:48] <ve6ts> anyone know the mass of a litium AA battery?
[17:49] <arko> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[17:49] <arko> 14.5g
[17:49] <ve6ts> thanks arko
[17:49] <arko> eroomde: in that fancy steel?
[17:49] <arko> 601 or something
[17:50] <arko> i forget my alloys
[17:50] <eroomde> this was just 316 stainless
[17:50] <eroomde> which is not that fancy
[17:50] <arko> ah
[17:50] <eroomde> it's our default
[17:50] <arko> how many $/cm^3?
[17:50] <eroomde> alot
[17:50] <arko> or pounds/cm^3
[17:50] <arko> damn
[17:50] <eroomde> i don't think they calculate it like that
[17:50] <arko> really?
[17:50] <arko> odd
[17:50] <eroomde> it's v high quality stuff
[17:50] <eroomde> a lot better than shapeways
[17:51] <eroomde> and i think there's a lot of technician involvement
[17:51] <arko> that all i do now with ours, i cad it up, had solidworks spit out volume, then multiply that by $0.18/cm^3
[17:51] <arko> which is cheap but yeah that makes sense if it's a really involved process
[17:51] <arko> also, no labor cost as the labor is just me
[17:51] <eroomde> shapeways' metal is annoying
[17:51] <eroomde> their process is different
[17:51] <eroomde> it has a stage where it's like wet sand and will break
[17:52] <eroomde> and their stainless steel is 30% bronze infused
[17:52] <eroomde> and it's all a bit budget
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[17:53] <arko> do they do any hardening?
[17:53] <arko> heat treat etc
[17:54] <arko> quench and what not
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[17:54] <arko> i remember a guy who came to our hackerspace telling me about these super crazy processes they go through
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered about a process akin to damasteel. Take nanosized iron and stainless powders.
[17:55] <arko> cad it a bit larger or something so when then go through heat treating the come out to the exact size
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Print your shape in iron and stainless powder.
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Hot isostatically press under vacuum to compress it to solidity
[17:55] <arko> eroomde: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulfCxDsVTWo
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Etch away the iron
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Alas it doesn't sound cheap
[17:55] <arko> you probably already know about that stuff, but its still a cool video
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> That guy is way too awesome.
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[17:59] <Willdude123> I keep getting bored and I have no clue why.
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[17:59] <Willdude123> I know, I'll go and masticate.
[18:00] Action: SpeedEvil remembers when he found that amusing.
[18:00] <Willdude123> :)
[18:03] <arko> SpeedEvil: seriously!
[18:03] <arko> that dude is cool
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[18:07] <ve6ts> i'm wondering how hard it would be to use a VOR style balloon tracker. A VOR transmits a different code on each of the radials comming out of the ground station, so the balloon would know where it is on an arm (with 2 it would know it's position - or close to it's position)
[18:08] <ve6ts> using this you could build a system that doesn't rely on the GPS system.
[18:09] <DL1SGP> well you could also have a time difference based system to spot the bearing for a transmitter and like that find position, like if you had a few HAM friends they could TX on an agreed QRG and then your balloon sends back the estimated bearings from which you can triangulate the balloon position :)
[18:10] <ve6ts> that would require alot of computing power on the balloon itself
[18:12] <DL1SGP> well look at the dutch conrad-doppler-peiler project :)
[18:12] <DL1SGP> let me get you a link
[18:12] <DL1SGP> http://mancave.conrad.nl/radiokampweek-2011-bouwproject-doppler-peiler/
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[18:13] <ve6ts> DL1SGP thanks, i will take a look
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[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> Quick one, how do I know which way round to place the atmega328p-au on my board???
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> There's a little circle in one corner. Assumning that's in the top left corner, are the TX/RX pins on the top row?
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> the circle is pin 0
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> ok cool, thank you
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> 1, even
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> still ok, RX/TX pins :)
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[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> for a micro sd clot, it says to use a 4.7uF cap
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> would a 10uF be ok>?
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> yes
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[18:55] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: If you've ordered a Habamp they'll ship Monday apologies for the delay #ukhas http://t.co/0cIF5SYjT1
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[19:10] <eroomde> arko, nice
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[19:10] <eroomde> sadly i did a whole year of materials science
[19:10] <eroomde> indelibly etched into my brain
[19:10] <eroomde> i didn't much enjoy it
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[19:10] <arko> eroomde: ah ok
[19:10] <arko> well then
[19:10] <arko> must have been super boring
[19:11] <eroomde> but i know my matensite from my austenite
[19:11] <arko> hehe
[19:11] <eroomde> martensite*
[19:11] <arko> materials is a field i really need to learn
[19:12] <eroomde> the most useful thing from it actually was when i tried to get make the perfect fudge
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Martensite is made when you add 3% martens to steel. The RSPCA get very upset when you use it.
[19:12] <eroomde> but getting it right on the eutectic point
[19:12] <arko> hahahaha
[19:12] <arko> thats putting knowledge to good use
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:15] <Willdude123> eroomde thinking about starting doing project euler again. It did get a bit too complicated but I'm really bored so may as well try ot
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[19:17] <eroomde> yep
[19:17] <eroomde> nothing to be lost
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[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, http://sdrv.ms/16leyez
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> not spectacularly neat, but I've checked the joints and it looks like it'll work
[19:27] <Upu> hey ibanezmatt13
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> evening Upu, what do you think? :)
[19:27] <Upu> did I promise you a Taoglas ?
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> I think so
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> well not promise :P
[19:28] <eroomde> looks good ibanezmatt13
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> thanks eroomde :)
[19:28] <Upu> doesn't look bad got a higher res version ?
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> nah, not got a good cam
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[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> but I've carefully inspected all joints
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> no bridges anywhere and all look suitably connected
[19:29] <Upu> super
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[19:29] <Upu> ok I have 1 Taoglas and one Alphamicro patch
[19:29] <Upu> one is for Willdude123 and one for you
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> oh I see
[19:29] <Willdude123> Ok.
[19:29] <Willdude123> Thanks
[19:29] <Upu> Both are about the same performance
[19:29] <Upu> the AM patch is slightly smaller
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> Will they both fit?
[19:29] <Upu> yeah
[19:29] <Upu> same fitting
[19:29] <Upu> what are you putting it on Willdude123 ?
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> arko: did you say -55C killed Enrgizers?
[19:30] <Willdude123> Nothing yet. The boards haven't got here :)
[19:30] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 have you done the fuses for that AVR yet ?
[19:30] <Upu> but you have a board on the way ?
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> nope, need to get TPS61201 on first
[19:30] <Upu> ah ok
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> plus I don't know what that means anyway
[19:30] Action: Upu slaps ibanezmatt13 :)
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[19:31] <Willdude123> Upu: I should do. It's been almost a month now though
[19:31] <Upu> power -> test -> AVR -> test -> radio -> Test -> GPS -> Test
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> how can I do that without power to the board though :)
[19:31] <Upu> because if there is a fault its going to be who has to remove that GPS chip :P
[19:31] <Upu> its called patience :)
[19:31] <Upu> anyway you have the TPS chip now
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> yes I do, it's getting it on that's the hard bit :P
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[19:32] <Upu> yeah take your time
[19:32] <Upu> they can take a bit of abuse
[19:32] <Upu> before you stick a battery on it
[19:33] <Upu> check the input and output rails for shorts
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> question for you Upu...
[19:33] <Upu> i.e check +/- isn't shorted
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> How do I begin going about getting it on there
[19:33] <Upu> or things will get hot and release magic smoke
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> :p
[19:33] <Upu> ok flux the pads
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> including gnd pad undernath/
[19:34] <Upu> there are three pins on the TPS bit that are are connected together
[19:34] <Upu> yes
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:34] <Upu> does your board have a via under the TPS chip ?
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> it does but it's practically invisible
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> I have no idea how any solder will get through
[19:34] <Willdude123> Magic smoke?
[19:34] <Upu> is it tented on the rear ?
[19:34] <Upu> i.e can you see solder ring or just a hole ?
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> well, it should have been but I don't think so
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> more like a hole
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: I am very curious how 13.56MHz is going to pan out with proper dipole
[19:35] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, exactly why i'm doing it
[19:35] <jcoxon> also higher altitude
[19:35] <Upu> ok you may want to use a small blade to scrape the mask off and reveal the copper
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> I thought about that
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> Yeah half-way to ionosphere
[19:35] <Upu> good luck jcoxon its about time sone stood up and did a mans floater
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> Oooh
[19:35] <Upu> none of this 9km malarky
[19:35] <Willdude123> Waiting for boards is boring and I have nothing to do :(
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> :D
[19:35] <Upu> oh hi Leo
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[19:36] <Upu> should tie B-20 to the bottom of it
[19:36] <jcoxon> that said payload isn't finished
[19:36] <jcoxon> eek
[19:37] <Willdude123> eroomde, any clue on how to find an nth prime number?
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> ok so tin *all* pads everywhere for tps. Then after making a small copper ring around the via on the back?
[19:37] <Willdude123> (is it OK to pregenerate a list?)
[19:37] <Upu> no ibanezmatt13
[19:37] <Upu> ok you're going to need to flow some solder up through that via
[19:37] <Upu> which is going to be impossible if its tented
[19:38] <Upu> have you got a scanner ?
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> is that all done on the back of the board?
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> scanner?
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> I assume not a radio scanner :P
[19:38] <Upu> computer one
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> I think
[19:38] <Upu> ok go scan you PCB rear
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> right now?
[19:38] <Upu> ping LeoBodnar - pm
[19:38] <Upu> why not ibanezmatt13
[19:38] <Willdude123> eroomde, I give up
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> sure, gimme 10 mins or so
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: are you planning to climb into warmer air or battle -50s?
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> wait Upu
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> how can I
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes I can
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> ignore
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[19:39] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, going to go cold
[19:40] <fsphil> sadly can't join you up there tomorrow jcoxon
[19:41] <jcoxon> fsphil, oh no
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[19:43] <fsphil> why two rtty beacons on the secondary payload?
[19:43] <jcoxon> oh more so you can catch the rtty
[19:43] <jcoxon> its more that rtty is repeated twice
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, afraid scanning is pointless. The scanner is not on the network and we have no way of connecting to it as of yet, just moved house. What did you need the scan for?
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[19:44] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
[19:44] <fsphil> oooh I read it wrong
[19:44] <fsphil> I see now
[19:44] <Upu> high quality image
[19:44] <Upu> or get a better image of the rear
[19:45] <RocketBoy> Hi jcoxon & all
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> I know what you can have, bear with me
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: http://gerblook.org/pcb/TWJBrZHJnVbCWzRVsC27xn#back
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> or I have a sketchup file?
[19:46] <Upu> linky
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> to the sketchup?
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: you only need the .eup file? https://www.dropbox.com/s/npm543ujxg0l9cb/NORB_v3.eup
[19:48] <Upu> whats an eup ?
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> the file eagle exports to use in sketchup
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> you want something else?
[19:48] <Upu> oh
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> I can take a screen shot of the sketchup
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> but not sure how you want it
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[19:49] <Upu> can you just save the sketchup model and link that ?
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> where will I find it?
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> I can yes
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> .ulp?
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> that the correct one?
[19:50] <Upu> if its open in Sketchup
[19:50] <Upu> file -> save as
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> .eup is what you put into sketchup from eagle
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ur8idgis2wm0obm/norb3.skp
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> sketchup file
[19:55] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: the via in question is in between the I and the F
[19:58] <Upu> sigh
[19:58] <Upu> my sketchup is out of date
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> so's mine
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> but it works
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> just out of curiosity Upu, could I solder a wire to any point on the board that is on the VCC net, and another wire to say the ground pin on the NTX2 and connect both wires to the correct battery, would it work?
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[20:00] <Upu> you mean you want to inject 3.3V into the circuit
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[20:00] <Upu> yes as long as its 3.3v
[20:01] <Upu> I think you're going to struggle to solder through that hole
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, well I'll solder two wires on, one on the VCC pin on the NTX2, the other on the GND pin of NTX2, and I'll get a regulated 3v3
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> yes I am
[20:01] <Upu> hot air job
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> how about if I scrape some off?
[20:01] <Upu> doesn't look big enough
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> :(
[20:01] <Upu> what diameter was the via
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> like, 0.3 :P
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> oop
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> s
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> what's the plan of action then?
[20:05] <Upu> you won't be able to solder that
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> but it is possible to fix somehow?
[20:05] <Upu> you put a small blob od solder paste on the pad
[20:05] <Upu> and hit it with a hot air gun
[20:05] <Upu> job done
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> not got one
[20:05] <Upu> yes that is a slight issue
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> aha!
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> I have a genius diea
[20:06] <Upu> go on
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> idea
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> It involves postage ;)
[20:06] <Upu> lol
[20:06] <Upu> put a return address on it this time
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> and the correct delivery address :P
[20:06] <Upu> and put my correct address on it
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> so thick
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> right then Upu, how's this: I'll post the entire board to you with correct stuff on it, would you mind doing the whole TPS61201 circuit? :/ I just can't see me doing a good job, far smaller than I thought
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[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> I imagine it would be a doddle to you
[20:08] <Upu> only one way to learn
[20:08] <Upu> I can do it
[20:08] <Upu> you're also welcome to come across
[20:08] <Upu> and do it yourself
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds like the better option
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> let me work something out. Any dates you prefer?
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> ie, weekend or weekdat
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> y
[20:09] <Upu> weekend probably but speak to your Dad its a pita coming all that way
[20:09] <Upu> up to you happy to do it , happy to let you do it
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> I'd like to learn how to do it, and if I come, saves postage and waiting for antenna
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> win win
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'll go ask him
[20:11] <jcoxon> fsphil, you now not launching?
[20:12] <Willdude123> I'm bored, need something habby to do :)
[20:12] <fsphil> the person I was launching with can't make it jcoxon, and I've no other way into the building
[20:12] <jcoxon> you can be mission control for our flight :-)
[20:12] <fsphil> haha
[20:13] <Upu> Willdude123 I'm bored of you saying you're bored
[20:13] <Upu> go find something to do
[20:13] <fsphil> I'll definitly have a listen
[20:13] <fsphil> weather is to be horrible so no yagis
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I'll be coming on the train if that's ok. Are you far from Bingley station?
[20:13] <x-f> Willdude123, penumbral lunar eclipse in a few hours
[20:13] <Willdude123> Upu, such as?
[20:13] <Upu> I can pick you up its 5 mins drive
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[20:14] <Upu> I can't do this weekend
[20:14] <fsphil> what size of antenna are you using for the HF rig jcoxon ?
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> weekdays are better for me on the train tbh Upu
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[20:14] <Willdude123> x-f, sky isn't clear, will check later
[20:14] <Upu> let me have a think ibanezmatt13
[20:14] <jcoxon> fsphil, dipole, 1/4 wave each side
[20:14] <fsphil> oooh
[20:14] <fsphil> that might do
[20:15] <jcoxon> did people notice that the permissions have changed a bit
[20:15] <jcoxon> used to be a range on your balloon flight
[20:15] <jcoxon> now thats not there
[20:16] <fsphil> mine still has it
[20:16] <fsphil> not that I noticed of course.....
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[20:17] <fsphil> it actually specifies within the UK too
[20:17] <fsphil> I'm terribly forgetful though
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[20:37] <arko> LeoBodnar: yes
[20:37] <arko> from the tests i did
[20:38] <LeoBodnar> Hmmm
[20:40] <arko> why? whats up?
[20:40] <arko> "(No Leo isn't flying wow!)" haha nice one
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> Not for long!
[20:43] <arko> haha
[20:43] <arko> glad i dont have to update Isle of Lying anymore
[20:43] <arko> good old ajax to save the day
[20:44] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Check out http://t.co/9cxFn9cdXG to see the new status of the NORB board! Almost all parts soldered on, almost ready to fly :D #ukhas #hab
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[20:55] <LeoBodnar> Can Foundation licence holder use home-made equipment with his foundation level callsign if he is also intermediate licence holder?
[20:57] <jcoxon> no
[20:58] <jcoxon> well
[20:58] <jcoxon> this debate goes on
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[21:00] <Upu> I suppose the question is what defines home made
[21:00] <Upu> if you're using a RF IC is that home made ?
[21:00] <arko> you need to grow your own silicon
[21:00] <arko> do photolithography
[21:00] <arko> make some ics
[21:00] <arko> wirebond them and solder them down
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[21:08] <LeoBodnar> So foundation licence holder cannot use other amateur equipment with his callsign even if equipment has been built within current requirements?
[21:10] <Gadget-Mac> LeoBodnar: huh ?
[21:10] <arko> mmca: i'll be in today
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> Say Intermediate licence holder A builds a transmitter and sells it to Foundation licence holder B. Can B go on the air on it with his callsign?
[21:11] <arko> ah crap wrong channel
[21:11] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, i'm not sure
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[21:12] <Gadget-Mac> I'm going to say no
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[21:12] <LeoBodnar> I can't see a difference between Kenwood and a chap "A"
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> Kenwood does not need a special licence to sell ham equipment
[21:13] <Gadget-Mac> Kenwood will have emission tested the kit
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> Or Elekraft or what not
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> So did "A"
[21:14] Action: Laurenceb_ is lurking in crazytown
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> Because he is bound by his intermediate licence and has used this equipment himself before selling it to "B"
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> this http://uk.farnell.com/bourns/mf-r010/multifuse-radial-0-1a-60v/dp/9350365
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> glued to a block of steel with thermal epoxy and wrapped in foam...
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> I'm trying to make a ~15minute delay fuse
[21:15] <Gadget-Mac> LeoBodnar: You can't just sell RF stuff
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> Gadget-Mac: you can on ISM band for "Dev"
[21:16] <Gadget-Mac> Laurenceb_: Give me an example
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> It's not a consumer device
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> so why not?
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> Gadget-Mac: my Ti eval boards
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> They come with big warning that they are illegal in Japan
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> yeah lol
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> you must have the same kit :P
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> and most probably violate all possible requirements elsewhere
[21:17] <Gadget-Mac> Laurenceb_: Ok so are these complete modules made by TI, or something you've knocked up ?
[21:17] <DL1SGP> hmm my neighbor his his amp on his party cranked up a bit too far... and they are just 3m outside of my antenna protection radius ... should I modulate the music with some lovely CW :)
[21:17] <LeoBodnar> yeah, have some if their RF stuff
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> Gadget-Mac: modules
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> "This board is more naughty than Bukkake in Japan"
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know a broker that does super cheap car insurance for 17 year olds?
[21:18] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, so as you said they're covered by ISM regulations.
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> Gadget-Mac: yeah sure
[21:18] <Gadget-Mac> Laurenceb_: Sorry, but thats not appropriate for the channel
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> but they havent been tested
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> uh oh
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> I keep a lovely Marconi sig gen in the lab for stopping mechanics downstairs playing silly music on the radio
[21:18] <LazyLeopard> A Foundation holder is not allowed to build a transmitter and use it on air. An Intermediate holder can build a transmitter from a kit and use it on air. A Full licence holder can design, build and use a transmitter on air.
[21:19] <LazyLeopard> A Foundation holder could, however, use a transmitter that had been built by someone suitably qualified.
[21:19] <eroomde> if the foundation holder is also an EE...
[21:20] <Gadget-Mac> EE ?
[21:20] <eroomde> electronics engineer
[21:20] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. That's where it's all a bit insular.
[21:20] <eroomde> indeed
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> tl;dr : HAM is bureaucratic treacle
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> So what is full license holder built for foundation side of himself lovely DIY transmitter?
[21:21] <Gadget-Mac> He's got bigger issues ;)
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> lol
[21:22] <Gadget-Mac> Most of the time it's common sense!
[21:23] <LazyLeopard> Heh. The Foundation and Intermediate licences are pretty much irrelevant if he's got as far as a Full licence.
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[21:23] <Gadget-Mac> Interestingly just found this
[21:23] <Gadget-Mac> http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/radiocommunication-licences/amateur-radio/guidance-for-licensees/Technical-Information/interference-amateur-repeaters/
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[21:24] <LeoBodnar> Does it say repeaters should just relax and give way to ISM?
[21:25] <LazyLeopard> ...though there's the anomalous business of being allowed to hold callsigns at all three levels...
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> ISM are primary users
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> LazyLeopard: yes, this is mental
[21:26] <eroomde> just get a a site experimental permit when you want to do stuff
[21:26] <eroomde> bypass all the amateur confusion
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[21:28] <LazyLeopard> ...and the subject of fairly heated discussion in amateur circles at present. I didn't see the point in keeping my M6 and 20 calls once I had my M0, but some folk get attached to their earlier calls, and don't want to let go of them.
[21:29] <Willdude123> What's a site experimental permit?
[21:29] <LazyLeopard> Gadget-Mac: Heh. More or less says "If you run your repeater properly you won't have a problem, so get with it already."
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> its a way to set up a site thats off limits to n00bs Willdude123
[21:30] <Gadget-Mac> LazyLeopard: Yup.
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> It should just say "Grow up."
[21:31] <DL1SGP> Willdude123: this paperwork http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/amateur-radio/apply-for-a-licence/ofw306.pdf
[21:31] <SiC> I saw an ofcom truck the other day
[21:31] <SiC> with a big extendable mast thing on the back
[21:31] <SiC> no-idea what they use it for
[21:31] <mikestir> they probably just drive it around to make people think they do something
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> Track illegal immigrants?
[21:32] <Willdude123> Right so is this directly to do with HAB or is it just Hams getting annoyed? No offence
[21:32] <SiC> maybe, the driver looked like a proper rf engineer though
[21:32] <Gadget-Mac> Should probably also point out that most of the modules 'we' use for HAB are licence exempt, rather than being licence for ISM band usage.
[21:32] <SiC> do you need a licence for R&D work in the ISM bands?
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[21:33] <LazyLeopard> Willdude123: Well, some hams have suggested that HABs might interfere with repeaters.
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> If R&D work does not violate requirements for ISM devices then no
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[21:34] <SiC> so as long as your transmitter stays in the ISM band and within the limits of the ISM band, then its ok?
[21:34] <LazyLeopard> ...and it's quite hard to argue that HABs are short range devices...
[21:34] <Gadget-Mac> SiC: Ofcom do all sorts of RF work
[21:35] <Willdude123> So what's this whole experimental stuff about then?
[21:36] <mikestir> ofcom has a nice remote rx network. iirc there's an interesting public domain article about it somewhere
[21:37] Action: Gadget-Mac remembers visting Baldoc ~20 years ago
[21:37] <mikestir> allows then to triangulate a transmitter anywhere in the country without getting out of their chair
[21:38] <SiC> ah cool
[21:38] <SiC> never knew that
[21:38] <SiC> so they can track illegal users easily? :p
[21:38] <eroomde> they can triangulate signals fairly easily
[21:38] <bertrik> I saw a short video about the dutch radio authority, they seem to have SDR's installed all over the country too
[21:38] <Gadget-Mac> Yup.
[21:39] <SiC> do ofcom ever go after illegal transmitters?
[21:39] <SiC> apart from the odd pirate radio?
[21:39] <mikestir> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/market-data-research/other/technology-research/research/spectrum-use/ams/
[21:39] <Gadget-Mac> SiC: Yes
[21:39] <Gadget-Mac> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/enforcement/spectrum-enforcement/baldock.pdf
[21:39] <mikestir> yes. they will come down on anyone interfering with mobile networks in hours
[21:40] <SiC> I always wonder how some of the RC crowd get away with transmitting video on the 900/1.2/1.3ghz bands
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> Is there a formal definition of short range? It is short compared to iterplanetary comms
[21:40] <mikestir> misguided individuals installing jammers on the roof of buildings
[21:40] <SiC> On the 5.8G band with the 1W transmitters I guess signal propergation issues doesn't cause a problem
[21:41] <LazyLeopard> Right. Bedtime. G'night.
[21:41] <mikestir> SiC: there is a license exempt video allocation at 1394 MHz
[21:41] <SiC> plus its on 5.8G which is ISM
[21:41] <SiC> is there?
[21:41] <DL1SGP> Sleep well LazyLeopard
[21:41] <Gadget-Mac> SiC: ISM doesn't have anything to do with it
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[21:41] <mikestir> SiC: take a look at IR2030
[21:42] <SiC> IR2030?
[21:42] <Gadget-Mac> If you don't have a licence for the ISM band, you can only operate a Licence exempt device
[21:42] Action: SiC googles
[21:42] <SiC> ah yes
[21:42] <SiC> I've seen that doc
[21:42] <SiC> yes, its still illegal if you don't have a licence
[21:42] <SiC> you can't get a licence for airborn use of a transmitter on 5.8G anyway
[21:43] <SiC> but its better than transmitting over another primary user on 900-1.3g band (i.e. GSM/radar(I think?)/others
[21:43] <SiC> not that condone doing it
[21:44] <SiC> just a lot of people do, do it
[21:44] <Gadget-Mac> Alot of people do 80MPH on the motorway
[21:44] <SiC> yup, similar analogy imo
[21:45] <eroomde> and it involves cars
[21:45] <eroomde> so, 2 points
[21:45] <SiC> doing 80mph on a clear day with very light traffic on the motorway, is still illegal
[21:45] <SiC> but not as bad as doing 70mph through a heavy snow storm with heavy traffic
[21:46] <eroomde> another point to you
[21:46] <SiC> :p;
[21:46] <eroomde> can we involve the internal combustion engine somehow
[21:46] <mikestir> I suppose running a watt on 2.4 gig would be analogous to doing 700 mph in heavy traffic :)
[21:46] <qyx_> but you are not interfering with snow, it's the snow that is interfering with you
[21:47] <SiC> well the analogy isn't completely watertight
[21:47] <SiC> running 1w on 5.8G isn't good, but at least the other uses of 5.8G are likely to be wifi routers
[21:47] <eroomde> the snow is a primary user though
[21:48] <SiC> and the signal propergation of 5.8g is so crap, that an airborn 5.8G 1W transmitter isn't likely to pentrate any buildings anyway
[21:48] <SiC> its a shame that ofcom, unlike some other EU countries, don't allow >25mW video transmitters on 5.8G airborn
[21:49] <daveake> It's a good job the snow doesn't interfere whilst airborne
[21:49] <SiC> lol
[21:50] <eroomde> if you're on a band you shouldn't be, is it impropergation?
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> "Improper gators" sounds like a suitable band name.
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[21:54] <fsphil> mmmm snow
[21:55] <KD8ATF> Wish i had snow!
[21:55] <DL1SGP> Snow is cool :P
[21:57] <SiC> yes it is very cool
[21:57] <KD8ATF> Just cant stand the cold if i could have the snow without the cold we would be set lol
[21:57] <SiC> cold infact
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[22:01] <Willdude123> eroomde, the math in Project Euler haunted me so I gave up before even trying
[22:02] <eroomde> great story Willdude123
[22:02] <eroomde> thanks
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[22:04] <Willdude123> Was that sarcasm?
[22:05] <Willdude123> I sort of lied, I did try a little but I'm really not sure if going through odd numbers and checking if they're prime is a good idea.
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> Does "give up" assume "trying"?
[22:08] <Willdude123> I suppose it does.
[22:08] <arko> looking at a problem is half the battle /s
[22:08] <Willdude123> I did try a little as I said but I'm not smart enough to solve it
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[22:10] <SiC> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/enforcement/spectrum-enforcement/baldock.pdf <- ahh
[22:11] <SiC> the van I saw is the "field monitoring facility"
[22:11] <SiC> 9khz-105ghz
[22:11] <SiC> I bet that van was probably the most expensive vehicle on the road :p
[22:11] <Gadget-Mac> Think the BBC / Sky win that award
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[22:12] <SiC> how much is the average broadcast van with sat uplink worth?
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[22:25] <WillTablet> https://mobile.twitter.com/mm_2312/status/391287335054499840/photo/1?screen_name=mm_2312
[22:25] <WillTablet> ^this made me laugh and gave me a distraction from the complete meaningless of life :-)
[22:26] <WillTablet> Hot air balloons in space. Well I'm sure we've had worse
[22:29] <SiC> what chipset does the RFM23 module use?
[22:29] <SiC> is it a TI or one from the RFM23 manufacturer?
[22:29] <arko> Si4xxx i think
[22:30] <SiC> ah
[22:31] <mfa298> WillTablet: reading bits of scroll back, if our bored and want something habby to do find something that no ones done yet and work out if its possible.
[22:32] <mfa298> however like most things worth doing, you need a attention span larger than that od a goldfish
[22:32] <WillTablet> Err jumping off one, oh I forgot Felix Baumgartner did that
[22:33] <WillTablet> Plus if I did that I'd 'forget' to open the parachute
[22:33] <WillTablet> ERM.
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[22:33] <WillTablet> *erm
[22:33] <WillTablet> Geiger counter on a HAB? Just to see if it's different.
[22:33] <mfa298> you could try and workout ways of doing dominoex from a pi/BBB - or even try and work out with some evidence if it's possible and what hardware might be needed.
[22:34] <mfa298> hint - I've started looking at DominoEx from a Pi and spent several hours finding out how dominoEX works and what I can make a pi do.
[22:35] <WillTablet> OK
[22:35] <WillTablet> Will find out what it's all about
[22:35] <fsphil> you might be able to do it via audio out
[22:35] <mfa298> (several hours being a couple of hours every day over a course of a week or more)
[22:35] <WillTablet> It was a really really bad idea using the BBB
[22:36] <WillTablet> My board would work with the Pi too I suppose but I'd best get it working on the BBB first.
[22:36] <fsphil> raspbian is much better put together than the OS that comes with the bbb
[22:36] <WillTablet> Mhm
[22:36] <mfa298> there's a few ways you might be able to do it - challenge is to see if you can work out what might work and what's a ludicrous idea. Once you've worked out what might work maybe see if you can get it working as well.
[22:36] <SiC> I really want to make a fully HAB transmitter with a CC1110F16 and gps module
[22:36] <SiC> I reckon you could get the design to be tiny and light
[22:37] <SiC> and cheap
[22:37] <mfa298> Doesn't have to be that as an idea. But come up with something you want to do, and them spend some real time on it.
[22:38] <WillTablet> Right. So dominoex will work on an arduino+ntx2?
[22:39] <fsphil> sorta. not terribly well
[22:39] <mfa298> It can also be a good way of learning some different programming techniques. I've learnt a fair bit about threaded programming by trying to bitbang rtty on a pi. It's not necessarily the best approach for just rtty but for me it's a a stepping stone towards dominoex and playing with some new stuff
[22:41] <WillTablet> The way dominoex works sounds complicated
[22:41] <mfa298> SiC: record for really cheap and light is around 10g including battery.
[22:41] <jcoxon> everyone loves a bit of hellschreiber
[22:41] <jcoxon> thats a fund project
[22:41] <jcoxon> fun*
[22:41] <WillTablet> Are the B-x launches using RTTY?
[22:41] <mfa298> WillTablet: spend a few hours reading about it and it's not too bad. just work out a bit at a time
[22:41] <WillTablet> jcoxon something tells me there's a reason it starts with hell
[22:42] <SiC> how much does the battery weigh mfa298?
[22:42] <Maxell> WillTablet: B-x is DomEX
[22:42] <WillTablet> What microcontroller?
[22:42] <SiC> I reckon a CC1110+GPS and boost circuit could be intergrated into a PCB the size of the GPS module itself
[22:42] <mfa298> the real skill with takling any problem is breaking it down into several small simple parts
[22:42] <WillTablet> http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/MFSK/DEX.htm O.O I already have a headache :-)
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[22:44] <WillTablet> So what is a symbol?
[22:44] <mfa298> SiC: this and the matching ones are amongst the lightest http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/
[22:44] <WillTablet> Actually I'm not sure I can do this at this time
[22:44] <fsphil> hellschreiber is a lovely mode
[22:46] <WillTablet> Urgh. Mum moved/lost my test clips, and they're about £20 to get spared
[22:46] <mfa298> WillTablet: the point is you need to do some research (i.e. read a few webpages about it, leave it a bit, think about it, read them again) and after a bit of work things will start to make sense.
[22:46] <WillTablet> *spares
[22:47] <mfa298> although one of the key things to finding something to do is find something you want to do.
[22:47] <mfa298> motivation is a big part to being successful
[22:47] <mfa298> if you dont want to do something that takes a bit of effort you wont do it.
[22:48] <SiC> do you still need a notam for balloons of that size?
[22:48] <SiC> iirc reading on the ukhas mailing list, the pico balloons have different rules, no?
[22:48] <mfa298> SiC: in the UK if the whole thing is under 2m in all directions for the whole flight it's exempt from needing a notam.
[22:49] <SiC> cool
[22:49] <WillTablet> mfa298 yeah I'll look into it in the morning.
[22:49] <mfa298> one of the key bits it 2m for the *whole* flight. So small latex balloons probably aren't suitable.
[22:49] <SiC> I guess otherwise kids letting go of balloons would be troublesome for the parents :p
[22:49] <WillTablet> Really looking forward to getting my board.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: Unless it's got a cutdown
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> SiC: Technically, many infringe
[22:49] <WillTablet> I'm actually looking forward to using my Saleae logic analyser again
[22:49] <SiC> lol
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> SiC: A 60cm balloon with a 1.5m cord will infringe
[22:50] <SiC> thats a big party balloon
[22:50] <mfa298> you also need to be sensible about what you're doing. Launching a small balloon next to a busy airport at the end of the runway probably won't go down well
[22:50] <SiC> yes ofc
[22:50] <SiC> launching anything airborn near an airport is never good
[22:51] <SiC> been tempted to launch a HAB for years (been on the mailing list for years)
[22:51] <arko> just do it
[22:51] <SiC> just the cost of helium and setup required for a normal sized balloon put me off
[22:51] <arko> registered trademark of Nike
[22:51] <arko> go hydrogen
[22:51] <arko> makes you feel more alive
[22:51] <SiC> :p
[22:52] <fsphil> you probably won't die
[22:52] <SiC> can those smaller foil balloons be commerically acquired?
[22:52] <SiC> or are they home made?
[22:53] <mfa298> I'm not convinved hydrogen in a pico is the best of ideas. They seem to have a habit of coming down mostly still inflated.
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[22:53] <mfa298> SiC: the favoured place for balloons and parachites http://randomaerospace.com/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[22:54] <mfa298> Qualatex 36" is what most people use for pico balloons
[22:54] <SiC> yea
[22:54] <SiC> ah
[22:54] <SiC> what was its original purpose?
[22:54] <arko> shame you cant fly them in california
[22:55] <mfa298> arko: you'll just have to visit the uk more often to do some pico flights :D
[22:55] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/13bUK0i.png
[22:55] <fsphil> rtty looks nice in audacity
[22:55] <arko> mfa298: good thinking :)
[22:55] <arko> woah cool
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[22:56] <fsphil> bonus points if anyone decodes it :)
[22:56] <SiC> do picos need parachutes?
[22:56] <SiC> B-10 didn't look like it did
[22:57] <mfa298> most of the B-?? flights have been designed to float - so spend as much time as possible at altitude.
[22:57] <mfa298> a couple of them managed around a week before going out of range
[22:58] <mfa298> this was the one after that one http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/ (similar payload to B-10)
[22:59] <mfa298> in fact B-11 was the same hardware as B-10
[23:00] <mfa298> fsphil: I'll let you decode it from the source code ;)
[23:00] <SiC> I guess those throw-away party balloon cylinders you get in the supermarket aren't pure helium?
[23:00] <SiC> but a mix of air/helium?
[23:01] <SiC> lol, b-11 really went on a european tour
[23:02] <fsphil> BOC's balloon gas is a mix too
[23:02] <fsphil> pure helium is very expensive
[23:02] <SiC> ah
[23:02] <mfa298> most of the balloon gas is probably reasonable.
[23:02] <SiC> I guess you don't loose too much with balloon gas?
[23:02] <mfa298> unless you find some 60/40 mix (as was asked about on the list a couple of weeks ago)
[23:04] <mfa298> I think (but not really looked) most of what you get will be 90 something high percent helium, the purer versions (medical etc) are into 99.99999% helium, but as with all things add more 9's on the end and the price goes up accordingly.
[23:05] <SiC> ok
[23:05] <SiC> so its pretty decent then
[23:05] <SiC> I was thinking it was more 60% helium / 40% air
[23:09] <SiC> right
[23:09] <SiC> night!
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[23:13] <WillTablet> I'm sort of looking forward to my board going wrong because then I can use the logic analyzer
[23:13] <WillTablet> Wondering if the board will help the EMI problem
[23:18] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:40] <SpeedEvil> op
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[23:40] <craag> NO
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 19 2013