highaltitude.log.20131014

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[05:34] <DL7AD> good morning!
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[06:34] <jphoglund> morning
[06:35] <arko> morning
[06:36] <x-f> morning
[06:37] <DL7AD> morning
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[06:50] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[07:00] <ibanezmatt13> where can I get the <util/crc16.h> header file?
[07:01] <ibanezmatt13> I've found the raw source file, I guess I could just shove all that in a file and call it util/crc16.h
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> would that be ok?
[07:04] <x-f> it should be a standard file, you can just #include it
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> So Arduino will have it already installed?
[07:04] <x-f> yes
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> oh brill, thanks
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[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[08:29] <Piet0r> Hi guys
[08:30] <Piet0r> I'm having a little problem with the http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/ feed in Thunderbird
[08:31] <Piet0r> Every time Thunderbird synchronizes the calendar, Thunderbird gives me error's like these: JavaScript Error: "Unknown timezone "Australia/NSW" in "SPASO UP 1". Treated as 'floating' local timezone instead: Tue 25 Sep 2012 08:30
[08:31] <Piet0r> Quite annoying
[08:40] <mfa298> morning all
[08:41] <henryplumb> Morning
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[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> morning mfa298
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> NORB3 code is complete until the board is made
[08:45] <mfa298> nice
[08:45] <henryplumb> What antenna should I use with NTX2B?
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> You make one yourself :)
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> Dead easy
[08:45] <mfa298> most people use a simple 433Mhz Groundplane antenna
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> I used an SMA connector on my NTX2 so I could just screw the antenna on. Worked a treat
[08:47] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: your wiki foo is strong today (you beat me to it)
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, it took me ages to find it. It should be more findable
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> Or at least, it should have a link to it from the radio modules section
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[08:48] <mfa298> took me a while to find as well
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, you heard from RMX yet? :)
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[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> I want to finish this board so much I can't wait :D
[08:58] <DL1SGP1> hi folks
[08:58] <Maxell> hello
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> right I'm off to my next lesson, cherio :)
[08:59] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[08:59] <DL1SGP> be safe ibanezmatt13
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> ;)
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> no plug wiring todat
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> today
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[09:07] <henryplumb> Is that guide on the link the same antenna as you used? ibanezmatt13
[09:08] <mfa298> he's left but it will be similar to what he used (and what more people use)
[09:08] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[09:09] <mfa298> the base design stays the same but there are a few ways of getting there (different types of wire and supports
[09:10] <mfa298> I've used something very similar as a receiving antenna but using slightly larger solid wire and wooden skewers as supports - but I probably wouldn't want to fly it.
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[09:11] <henryplumb> Cheers mfa298 I think I'll build one for my payload
[09:14] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: BATC Convention: Balloon with video downlink: The British Amateur Television Club convention... http://t.co/KKFzvinRng #hamradio #ukhas
[09:17] <mfa298> no pressure for craag then
[09:17] <x-f> :)
[09:17] <Darkside> video downlink huh?
[09:17] <Darkside> on what
[09:17] <Darkside> 2.4GHz with dish on the ground?
[09:18] <mfa298> last time we talked about it it was either 1.2Ghz or 2.4Ghz
[09:18] <nats`> hi
[09:18] <Darkside> doubt it would be 1.2
[09:18] <Darkside> as thats the amateur 23cm band
[09:18] <Darkside> and licensing issues
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[09:18] <mattbrejza> yea 1.2 isnt allowed here
[09:18] <Darkside> however 2.4GHz is doable
[09:18] <Darkside> as in, it has been done before
[09:19] <mfa298> possibly with a pair of stacked halo's on the payload (so Horizontal and Omni) so people could use dish / yagi
[09:19] <Darkside> 24dBi dish on th ground + LNA and you can probably gt video
[09:19] <mattbrejza> i think only 10mW on 2.4 also
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[09:19] <Darkside> mattbrejza: naaaaahhhhhh
[09:19] <mfa298> we couldn't remember if 1.2Ghz ISM was allowed at that time.
[09:19] <Darkside> you'd just use the wifi limit (4W EIRP or whatever)
[09:19] <Darkside> and bugger what anyon says
[09:20] <mfa298> wifi limit is only 100mW EIRP here so not much better anyway
[09:20] <Darkside> FM video is just as wide as wifi
[09:20] <Darkside> oh what
[09:20] <Darkside> wow
[09:20] <Darkside> yeah thats pushing it a bit then
[09:20] <mattbrejza> i thought the ir2030 limit was 10mW but w/e without checking
[09:20] <Darkside> its 4W EIRP here
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[09:21] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I think you're right on that. (I don't think the wifi bit says allowed airborne)
[09:21] <Darkside> heh
[09:21] <Darkside> damn
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[09:21] <Darkside> well i'd like to know how craag plans on doing it
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[09:21] <Darkside> when we finally gt around to it, we plan on using 70cm analog ATV
[09:21] <Darkside> with about 5W
[09:22] <mfa298> I think he's only planning on short-ish range for it (maybe a few km)
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[09:22] <Darkside> but we live in the lucky country
[09:22] <Darkside> mm
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[09:22] <mfa298> otherwise it's try and do something close to the HAM bands so it can use the good RX kit people have (hence the idea of stacked halos)
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[09:23] <Darkside> yeah
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[09:23] <Darkside> dunno what the ATV scene is like in th eUK
[09:23] <Darkside> around here its mostly 70cm and 23cm
[09:23] <Darkside> the repeaters are usually 23cm uplink, then multiplexed 70cm DVB-T downlink
[09:25] <mfa298> I think there's a fair number of people doing stuff although I'm not sure which bands.
[09:25] <mfa298> the batc launch might be circular polarisation pretty much straight down to the ground station / chase car
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[09:26] <mfa298> because all the people with good ATV kit probably wont be in front of their kit for the BATC launch
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[09:40] <mattbrejza> o dear...
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[09:43] <DL7AD> morning
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[09:50] <jedas> hi
[09:50] <jedas> I still don't get how dl-fldigi should work
[09:50] <jedas> here is example http://picpaste.com/1-7NzPA8MQ.jpg
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[09:50] <mfa298> mattbrejza: was than an "o dear ..." for the mailing list post?
[09:50] <jedas> I've send communication string, but it doesn't decode
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[09:51] <mattbrejza> yea he did at least say orignally by me
[09:51] <mattbrejza> but thats not even the latest apk he was using...
[09:51] <Darkside> jedas: i dont think it goes green unlss you have a flight document
[09:51] <Darkside> also don't use XOR chcksums
[09:51] <Darkside> they are really, really bad
[09:51] <jedas> i see. is that the same for SSDV data ?
[09:51] <mfa298> or at least a payload doc.
[09:51] <Darkside> dunno
[09:52] <jedas> someone said yesterday, that i don't need flight document for testint
[09:52] <Darkside> yes that right sorry
[09:52] <Darkside> you need a payload doc tho
[09:52] <mfa298> although I thought I had seen green lines when I was testing before having a flight doc
[09:52] <Darkside> but please don't use XOR checksums, you get way too many false positives
[09:52] <Darkside> use CRC16
[09:52] <jedas> i need to create it online, ans someone will validate this, or can i do it by myselft localy somehow ?
[09:52] <jedas> ok
[09:52] <jedas> this was just example string from the web
[09:53] <Darkside> you really shouldn't do that
[09:53] <Darkside> as if it does decode and upload, it confuses everyone
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[09:53] <jedas> how I should test SSDV trasnmission without disturbing upload ?
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[09:55] <mfa298> I'd get it successfully decoding telemetry first as that gives readable text and you know that it's working.
[09:55] <jedas> i've send the same data to serial port, and decoded properly with ssdv-master
[09:56] <jedas> I *think* it should go correctly via RF too
[09:56] <Darkside> dunno, never used SSDV
[09:56] <jedas> at least short strings comes as clear text
[09:57] <mfa298> they really should be appearing in the box above with either green or red background
[09:57] <jedas> maybe that happens when communication documents is prepared
[09:57] <mfa298> from memory if you don't have a payload doc it appears in that box but the boxes above (callsign, time etc) don't get filled in
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[09:58] <jedas> i see. yea, this seems to be acase
[09:58] <mfa298> but the white box next to the RTTY dropdown should show something
[09:58] <jedas> it's ok to test communication strings. but for SSDV i really would like to see a picture :)
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[09:58] <jedas> i see
[09:59] <mfa298> although seeing that saying rtty might be wrong, you might need rttyr or usb
[09:59] <jedas> hm, i'm not sure what i should change in codding to make USB work
[09:59] <jedas> if I select it, it doesn't decode my string
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[10:00] <mfa298> standard approach is to have the radio set to USB and dl-fldigi set to USB or RTTYR - If you've got to change one of those you might have your mark and space frequencies reversed
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[10:02] <jedas> ohh, that's right, I've changed it to USB on HDSDR, and i see chars allright, but no decode still :/
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[10:03] <mfa298> just tested here for something that shouldn't have a payload doc and I get the string with green background in that box
[10:03] <jedas> could you share an audio from that ?
[10:05] <mfa298> this is how my dl-fldigi looks https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/SLADNAS%20-%20dl-fldigi.jpg
[10:06] <jedas> I'll try to code the same exact string as yours into my stream
[10:06] <jedas> let's see if that will help
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[10:09] <Brace> those of you who've tested rpi's running on batteries, how do you record how long it'll stay on for?
[10:09] <jedas> mfa298: strange, but it doesn't work either :) http://picpaste.com/1-L56526EN.jpg
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[10:10] <mfa298> you might want to check the audio levels / filtering - the diamond at the bottom of the screen should be green
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[10:12] <jedas> made it green, but didn't help. when I can see actual symbols on screen I don't think rf/audio stage matter anymire
[10:13] <mfa298> Darkside: nice reply :D
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[10:14] <mattbrejza> i dont think hes actually tested the app with a real device though
[10:14] <mattbrejza> or tested the audio part
[10:14] <mfa298> this is a short recording of that payload, 300bd, 600 shift, 8n2 - you might need to play it with something like vlc and pipe the audio into dl-fldigi via stereo mix / VAC https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/SLADNAS%20-%20Audio.wav
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[10:15] <jedas> thanks!
[10:15] <mfa298> from what he's said on here it sounds like his only testing is does it load in a vm
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[10:18] <jedas> mfa298: your audio works, sometimes it's red, sometimes green, but at least i see how it should work. Thanks, I'll sort out whats wrong with mine
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[10:21] <mfa298> jedas: it might help if you were able to share a quick diagram of how things are connected up and your code (assuming it's something relativly readable like C / Python)
[10:22] <jedas> I'll try the last thing. The only difference i see from your stream, is inter character delay. I'll try to reduce that. if that won't help, i'll bother you with the source :)
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[10:22] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza_
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[10:27] <jedas> mfa298: yea:) that what it was
[10:27] <jedas> i was careful, and was sending quite big pauses between each character. it seems that fldigy doesn't want that
[10:28] <jedas> anyway, thanks for the help. i've spend quite much time with this :)
[10:29] <mfa298> you can have gaps between sentences but I don't think anyone has tried gaps between characters
[10:29] <mfa298> people generally want to get data sent as fast as possible
[10:29] <jedas> yea, it makes sense
[10:30] <jedas> my serial driver is not finished, and i can't put any amount of chars without delay
[10:30] <jedas> anyway it's first time i see that it makes difference
[10:30] <mfa298> gaps between sentences tend to be when people are polling gps (if that's how their code is written)
[10:31] <jedas> ok, now it's picture time
[10:31] <mfa298> with any luck that might now work as well - if the issue wsa just the gaps
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[10:34] <jedas> wohu :) it works also
[10:35] <jedas> briliant software
[10:35] Nick change: f5vnf_ -> f5vnf
[10:36] <mfa298> assuming you're LY4FPV it's being uploaded successfully http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[10:36] <jedas> yea, it's me
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[10:37] <jedas> i should probably go offline
[10:37] <x-f> oh, LY, hello southern neighbor :)
[10:38] <mfa298> or just make sure it's taking pictures of things you're happy to go online.
[10:38] <jedas> hi :) is there anyone more north from LY ?
[10:38] <jedas> sure :)
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[10:38] <x-f> i'm from Latvia, there was one from Estonia too
[10:38] <jedas> nice
[10:42] <x-f> jedas, be sure to send a launch announcement to the UKHAS mailing list when you have the launch date, you'll get trackers from Poland, Latvia, possibly Estonia, Sweden too
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[10:44] <jedas> actually not I'm doing the launch personally. I'm hired to prepare hardware/firmware for that. My customer will definally ask do that. Actually it won't be a ballon, but low orbit sat\
[10:44] <mfa298> if you want to see where listeners have appeared over the last year or so have a look at http://www.philcrump.co.uk/ukhas_listeners/
[10:44] <x-f> LituanicaSAT?
[10:44] <jedas> wow, there's many
[10:44] <jedas> actually no :) unfortunatelly I'm not related to litsat, they are doing great job there, and launching soon
[10:45] <jedas> it's privete company. called ThumbSat
[10:45] <x-f> oh, cool
[10:45] <jedas> if that will go up, it will be probably in 2014 or so
[10:48] <fsphil> ssdv on a satellite?
[10:48] <jedas> yea, they want to take a snapshot of antenna or something like that
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[10:49] <fsphil> cool
[10:49] <jedas> this is one is ligt one, <25 g for electronics
[10:49] <jedas> and battery
[10:49] <mfa298> if you can run more power than some of the habs then ax.25 might give a better throughput
[10:49] <mfa298> although rtty and ssdv from a satellite could be pretty cool.
[10:50] <fsphil> ah, nano sat
[10:50] <fsphil> what camear sensro do you know?
[10:50] <fsphil> er, spelling
[10:50] <jedas> i'll read about that for sure. currently I'm using 3mpix mt9t112 from Aptina
[10:51] <jedas> quality is *ok*, so we are going to stick with it for first prototypes
[10:51] <jedas> then we'll see
[10:52] <DL7AD> hi
[10:52] <jedas> basically we'll have about 2 weeks to transmit 12 images
[10:53] <fsphil> oh loads of time
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[10:53] <jedas> yea, but there won't be listeners all around the globe
[10:53] <fsphil> so you're repeating the packets?
[10:53] <jedas> so we are considering to power tx only above europe or so
[10:53] <jedas> it's the idea
[10:53] <jedas> actually controller just takes picutre and sends via SSDV for a now
[10:54] <jedas> there is much to do yet
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[10:54] <fsphil> did you solve your other problem? with the packets not decoding?
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[10:55] <jedas> yea, just now :) mfa298 gave me good example
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[10:55] <jedas> it was a problem of too big gaps beetween each char
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[10:55] <jedas> now i'm sending it without gaps, works like a charm
[10:55] <eroomde> good morning
[10:55] <fsphil> ah, yea dl-fldigi will pad out gaps with NUL bytes
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[10:59] <fsphil> afternoon eroomde
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[11:01] <mfa298> according to my clock that was a bit premature fsphil
[11:01] <eroomde> and mine
[11:01] <eroomde> you need a gps nts system
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[11:02] <fsphil> I was hoping with the lag of this slow connection it would arrive at the right moment
[11:02] <Hix> Darkside you about?
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[11:04] <Darkside> Hix: no
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[11:04] <Hix> Darkside damn :)
[11:04] <Darkside> :P
[11:04] <Hix> have you used Altium? Got a Russian "Evaluation" to play with
[11:04] <Darkside> lol
[11:04] <Darkside> i us altium exclusively
[11:05] <Hix> whats the learning curve like?
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[11:05] <wd8mnv> that sound like a pill
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[11:05] <Darkside> but im too tired to teach it
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[11:05] <Darkside> Hix: steep, but not as bad as eagl
[11:05] <Darkside> imo
[11:05] <Hix> not after tuition, just wondered if it was worth getting to grips with, looks very good I have to say
[11:06] <Darkside> its very good
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[11:06] <Hix> figured that rather than learning kiCAD I'd prob be better learning something used in industry
[11:06] <Darkside> mm
[11:06] <Hix> cant hurt the CV
[11:07] <Darkside> yup
[11:07] <Darkside> its used a lot here
[11:07] <jedas> in my opinion they've done slightly silly things with libraries
[11:07] <nats`> nothing can be bad as eagle
[11:07] <jedas> in newest version you almost don't get any, you need to buy
[11:07] <Darkside> the library system in altium is excellent
[11:08] <Darkside> and i make all my own parts anyway
[11:08] <jedas> maybe if you are using vault
[11:08] <Darkside> i rarely use exising libraries
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[11:08] <nats`> jedas you want a good library management... go for mentor (joke isnide)
[11:08] <Darkside> except for stuff in miscellaneous devices.connectors
[11:08] <nats`> inside
[11:08] <Darkside> everything else i make myslf, so i can put in decent 3d models
[11:08] <Darkside> and customise them for whatever pcb im working on
[11:09] <Darkside> if you judge a pcb design tool by the available libraries, you're doing it wrong IMO
[11:09] <jedas> during time i've also end up with my own parts, but i don't think that it's what they've planned :)
[11:09] <Darkside> anyway, making parts in altium is easy
[11:09] <Darkside> the IPC compliant footprint wizard is really useful too
[11:10] <jedas> yea, that helps a lot
[11:10] <Darkside> makes making stuff like TQFPs or QFNS, or SOTs or whatevr, really simple
[11:10] <Darkside> but yeah, i end up with my own library
[11:10] <Darkside> which i add to as needed
[11:10] <Darkside> means i end up with nice parts with good 3d models
[11:11] <nats`> Darkside everyone do his own library
[11:11] <Darkside> instad of the regular extruded stuff
[11:11] <Hix> good to hear that creating parts is easy, that was the main point. The routing tool loos awesome
[11:11] <Darkside> nats`: not everyone
[11:11] <Hix> *looks
[11:11] <jedas> but i believe you can't do anything more than extruded without additional software ?
[11:11] <zyp> I've also made most of the parts I'm using in altium myself
[11:11] <Darkside> jedas: yeah
[11:11] <nats`> ok to be honnest at work if a manufacturer model exists we take it
[11:11] <Darkside> jedas: i usually import STEP models
[11:11] <zyp> but I don't care much for 3D models, so I haven't bothered with that
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[11:11] <Darkside> 3dcontentcentral ftw
[11:12] <Darkside> and yes, manufacturer 3d models help too :-)
[11:12] <Hix> I've got a rakke of 3D parts in Catia so I could export them and marry them to a schematic part, job done
[11:12] <jedas> it helps to get "wow" effect from customer, when you show a pcb in 3d :)
[11:12] <Darkside> jedas: yep
[11:12] <Darkside> sure does
[11:12] <Hix> plus then the 3D board can go into a hardware design too
[11:12] <Darkside> Hix: yep
[11:12] <Darkside> did that with the habamp
[11:12] <Darkside> designd it to fit in a hammond box
[11:12] <Hix> hammond ftw :)
[11:13] <Darkside> make easier because hammond provide 3d models of all their boxes
[11:13] <nats`> many years I didn't use altium, I'll find arussian demo too :D
[11:13] <jedas> yea, just did the same too :)
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[11:14] <Darkside> anyways, altium is nice
[11:15] <mattbrejza> $$$ ?
[11:15] <Darkside> dunno about the FPGA stuff
[11:15] <Darkside> but i only use it as a pcb design tool
[11:15] <Darkside> yes
[11:15] <Darkside> i have a student license
[11:15] <eroomde> hardware is the best wow effect on customers
[11:15] <Darkside> and commercial seats are $$$
[11:15] <eroomde> the power of it is amazing
[11:15] <mattbrejza> im not surpised, just wondering
[11:15] <Darkside> but yes, i learnt it mainly because its whats used in industry around here
[11:15] <Hix> how did you get on with SW over the weekend eroomde
[11:15] <Darkside> including the department of defence
[11:16] <eroomde> Hix, well, thank you
[11:16] <eroomde> I will leak something to you later
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[11:16] <eroomde> i actually spent 8 hours designing something i later realised was silly
[11:16] <eroomde> which was tedious
[11:16] <Hix> cool - its pretty intuitive.
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[11:17] <Hix> interested to see your project at some point
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[11:19] <eroomde> yeah, it's intuitive and the models can be more complicated than I can fit into my head at once
[11:19] <eroomde> which i really like
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[11:19] <eroomde> so it's great for conceptual design
[11:20] <Hix> I've been lookinmg at it this morning. Not used it in a good few years. Very interested in SolidCAM too. Reckon if I can create the G Code then getting stuff machined should cost a bit less
[11:20] <jedas> my colleagues used that very often, to line up two mating boards. you will know that high cap won't touch something else on other board
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[13:05] <KD8ATF-TAB> GM all
[13:05] <UpuWork> hi there
[13:06] <KD8ATF-TAB> How is everyone?
[13:06] <UpuWork> tired :)
[13:06] <UpuWork> and its only 2pm
[13:06] <KD8ATF-TAB> I hear that short weekend here and it's 9am here
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[13:10] <henryplumb> Where is the best place to get helium for a flight?
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[13:19] <craag> LOL at that tweet about video downlink
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[13:20] <craag> It's 3G streaming, I've tried to make it clear I don't expect it to work above 1000m at all, maybe not even 500m.
[13:20] <DL1SGP1> :)
[13:21] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
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[13:21] <eroomde> henryplumb, where are you?
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> afternoon
[13:22] <henryplumb> eroomde at college in Colchester
[13:23] <eroomde> if the college has a chemistry lab that gets in gas bottles, the easiest thing might be to ask them if they can get some
[13:23] <eroomde> failing that, BOC, Air Products, random party shops
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> Or if you fancy your chances, go H2 :)
[13:24] <Hix> wow! Altiums documentation is really good. You can export it to pdf to which is a really nice touch
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[13:24] <Hix> *too
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> When you're setting up a web server for a website, that server has to be permanently running if you want to access the site at any time. So does that mean if I had the webserver running on my PC, I'd have to have my PC running 24/7?
[13:27] <mfa298> yes
[13:27] <qyx_> of course
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> how do people have websites then without leaving their PC on?
[13:28] <nats`> they use hosting service
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: External servers.
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: Or use a low power thingy.
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> right, that makes sense then
[13:28] <mfa298> for low traffic stuff a hosting provider or vps, for a big site a server (or many of them)
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> The raspberry pi, or Beaglebone black is quite suited to a personal website
[13:29] <mfa298> home internet connections also aren't always best suited for running web servers (at least adsl isn't)
[13:29] <qyx_> for the cost of raspberry pi i can buy hosting for 3 years
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'd rather have it hosted so it runs all the time
[13:29] <qyx_> i would not recommend running server at home
[13:30] <henryplumb> ibanezmatt13 i wouldn't mind using hydrogen, i hear it's cheaper! Where can you get h2?
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> where are you?
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes
[13:30] <mfa298> unless you wanted to learn about running the server yourself you can use things like wordpress.com
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> colchester
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb: http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> not sure if it's a trek or not, but this guy supplies the balloons and parachutes and he has a launch site with a notam for atc
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> he also supplies H2
[13:32] <tweetBot> @thecraag: To clear things up my HAB at the BATC Convention will stream video over 3G (&lt;1000m) and *may* carry an SSDV TX (~SSTV), not an ATV TX #ukhas
[13:32] <mfa298> otherwise you can probably get H2 from similar places to He
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> and he fills it for you and ties everything up for you too. I went with him (Steve) because we had no experience in things like that
[13:33] <henryplumb> Okay cheers :-)
[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> managed to kill several birds with one stone. Because we recovered it, we didn't need to pay for the chute too
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, I mentioned wordpress to Upu last night and he suggested this other one which looked better. Can't remember the exact name; the word "simple" was in it somewhere
[13:34] <henryplumb> Anyway I've got a college lecture/talk thing. Talk later guys :-)
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> bye
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:34] <mfa298> I did spot that when looking at scrollback
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> habduino.org is based on that
[13:35] <x-f> SimpleCMS
[13:35] <mfa298> http://get-simple.info/
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> that's the one
[13:35] <KD8ATF-TAB> Is the handling available to buy yet?
[13:35] <KD8ATF-TAB> Habduino *
[13:36] <UpuWork> not yet no
[13:36] <Hix> ibanezmatt13
[13:36] <UpuWork> I am working on it KD8ATF
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> yes Hix :)
[13:36] <Hix> are you ok iwth python now? Django is very well regarded
[13:36] <eroomde> in the mean time, you can diy your flight computer
[13:36] <KD8ATF-TAB> Stupid auto correct :(
[13:36] <eroomde> can take just an afternoon with some veryboard
[13:36] <UpuWork> yeah the designs and code are up
[13:36] <eroomde> veroboard*
[13:36] <mfa298> you can get fairly cheap hosting - you might even find someone who'll let you put stuff on their server for free several of us have some sort of server.
[13:36] <Hix> i like veryboard :)
[13:37] <KD8ATF-TAB> I am very interested in one! For my first balloon launch!
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> Hix, I'm *ok* with Python. But not that good to make a website I would think
[13:37] <Hix> its a framework, not sure you need that much python to be honest
[13:38] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[13:38] <Hix> https://www.djangoproject.com/
[13:39] <adamgreig> depends what you are making a website for
[13:39] <adamgreig> if you jsut want some words on some pages, I'd stick with a static site generator, even
[13:39] <nats`> I would not recommend django for a beginner
[13:39] <mfa298> these options all depend on how much stuff you want to do, things like wordpress, drupal, mediawiki, and I assume simple cms you just install stuff on the webserver and then edit the content via a web browser.
[13:39] <adamgreig> if you actually need a thing with a database and stuff, then you need something more
[13:39] <nats`> I worked with this one and there are many tricky part
[13:39] <adamgreig> django is super though
[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> adamgreig, I'm just making a website for NORB
[13:40] <adamgreig> and I think very easy to get started with. but it's totally inappropriate for a straightforward content website
[13:40] <mfa298> things like django, php, python, perl, cgi you end up writing code on the server.
[13:40] <Hix> I've heard a lot of good things about it, but not played with it yet
[13:40] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: in which case yes, wordpress or maybe one of the static generators
[13:40] <adamgreig> simple cms would probably work
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> the simple CMS looks ok
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[13:40] <adamgreig> django is like rails, a framework for making web applications
[13:40] <adamgreig> not what you want
[13:40] <adamgreig> bbl
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> At the moment I know how to get it working on the Pi. I have scheduled lessons for getting it off the Pi soon
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[13:44] <Hix> simpleCMS appears to be $13/month Wordpress is gratis
[13:44] <mfa298> I'd assume that's only if you want them to host it for you.
[13:44] <mfa298> not actually looked at it much yet
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't think you had to pay for simple CMS to just make the site, but I may be wrong
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[13:47] <Hix> seems so http://www.simplecms.com/pricing
[13:47] <craag> Hix: I think you're looking at the wrong 'simple cms'
[13:48] <craag> http://get-simple.info/ ?
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[13:48] <Hix> ahh that'd explain it
[13:48] <Hix> it was supposed to be simple :)
[13:49] <eroomde> RC stuff is so annoying!
[13:49] <eroomde> i have ha dthis rant before
[13:49] <eroomde> but nothing is specified
[13:49] <eroomde> they jus tshow you a picture of it
[13:49] <eroomde> and maybe give you 20% of the required information
[13:49] <eroomde> i've just bought a bunch of ball linkages and will hope that'll do the trick
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[13:50] <craag> ibanezmatt13: As mfa298 said, as long as you're not planning to compete with amazon then one of us might be able to give you a slot on our servers. Looks v simple to set up!
[13:52] Action: SpeedEvil starts a chorus of 'Are your balls linked in specific orientations to each other'
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that's good to know. I don't think NORB is going to get as many viewers as http://www.daveakerman.com/ so should be fine
[13:52] <tweetBot> @thecraag: More info on my BATC HAB here: http://t.co/XksSy1mx2r Progress has been slow recently, will have updates soon! #hamr #ukhas
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[13:54] <Hix> eroomde these guys are pretty helpful http://goo.gl/Xn2n1Q
[13:55] <eroomde> forums take forever
[13:55] <eroomde> and i've never found one without 10 people who don't understand what they're talking about by still talk a lot anyway
[13:55] <eroomde> they should just provide specs for stuff. like normal people
[13:56] <eroomde> w/e, hobbyking is cheapo
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[13:57] <eroomde> in googling for stuff this morning i came across a forum thread which was about 5 pages of the same three people completely misadvising someone
[13:57] <eroomde> they had no idea what they were talking about but we so certain about their advice
[13:57] <eroomde> it was a PICAXE forum admittedly
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[13:58] <Hix> heh. Forums are a place for knobs to be heroes
[13:59] <Hix> I'm getting to the end of my tether with the 1.5Mbps line at home. Time for fibre I reckon
[13:59] <eroomde> check out the UKRA forum one day
[13:59] <eroomde> quite amazing
[13:59] <eroomde> fibre is a great thing
[13:59] <Hix> 1.5Mbps is not
[13:59] <Hix> predicted 40 here
[13:59] <eroomde> over copper?
[13:59] <Hix> ironically i get parity between upload and download at the mo
[14:00] <Laurenceb> UKRA? you mean UK fireworks party
[14:00] <eroomde> UK Rocketry Association
[14:02] <Laurenceb> yeah, fireworks :P
[14:02] <eroomde> mostly yes
[14:03] <eroomde> carboard and solids and off the shelf electronics
[14:04] <Laurenceb> less fail than: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg5LbAJ94K4
[14:04] <Hix> what over copper eroomde? 1.5 or 40
[14:04] <eroomde> 40
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[14:04] <Hix> seems so. its fttc max advertised is 78Mbps
[14:05] <Hix> predicted is 40
[14:06] <mfa298> I prefer seeing fibre that's running 10Gbit/s - Doubt I'll find an ISP to provide that at a reasonable cost though.
[14:07] <Hix> I'm assuming they have had their arses kicked over advertising outrageous speeds only to provide 25% of the advertised speed for 100% of the cost
[14:07] <Laurenceb> actually these guys actually have something that kind of works
[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zn4y0FXJnM
[14:07] <eroomde> move to a university mfa298 :)
[14:07] <Laurenceb> lol 41 attempts
[14:07] <Hix> mfa298 I'd be happy to see the back of my 1.5Mbps
[14:08] <mfa298> the exchange I'm on is still limited to 8mbps :(
[14:08] <Hix> still >4x what I've got though.
[14:08] <mfa298> and I think infinity in the area has just been knocked back another 3 months (as has happened a few times before)
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[14:09] <eroomde> what the hell is that Laurenceb ?
[14:09] <Hix> I've read a few things on rural communities getting their own fibre link installed. Great finger up to BT that is :D
[14:09] <Laurenceb> rofl
[14:09] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djq8C-UYCb0
[14:09] <Laurenceb> wtf
[14:10] <Laurenceb> i dont get it, its like they are trying to fail
[14:10] <Hix> 41th - retards
[14:10] <Laurenceb> each test they iterativly screw it up
[14:10] <Laurenceb> they make the opposite change to the design than they should
[14:11] <eroomde> but what is the reason for all this?
[14:12] <Laurenceb> someone said they had to use coke cans
[14:12] <Laurenceb> several years ago
[14:12] <Laurenceb> now they are obsessed and delusional
[14:12] <Hix> thjey appear to be up to 48
[14:12] <Laurenceb> WTF
[14:13] <eroomde> are you able to answer my question?
[14:13] <Laurenceb> and their earlier stuff like 2 years ago was much closer to working
[14:13] <Laurenceb> eroomde: rockoon
[14:13] <Laurenceb> i think
[14:13] <eroomde> oh
[14:13] <eroomde> well in that case, that's retarded
[14:14] <Laurenceb> or in their case, failoon
[14:14] <Laurenceb> or just loon
[14:14] <Laurenceb> first confirmed case of inverse iterative design
[14:15] <Laurenceb> "the nozzle is too small... that means we make it smaller right??"
[14:16] <Hix> Jaguar LandRover probably beat them at inverse iterative design
[14:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4caEWjMGU&feature=c4-overview&list=UUAvf028nQt0tYFM2vLEtpXg
[14:27] <eroomde> oh well
[14:29] <eroomde> absolute magnetic position encoders are amazing
[14:30] <eroomde> 12bits angular resolution
[14:30] <eroomde> high bandwidth
[14:30] <eroomde> up to 12000rpm
[14:30] <eroomde> and some of them come in packages the size of a coin
[14:30] <eroomde> amazatron
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[14:37] <Hix> are they hellishly costly eroomde ?
[14:37] <eroomde> probably
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[14:40] <eroomde> prince isn't given
[14:40] <eroomde> which is usually The Sign
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[14:43] <Hix> i see what you did there
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[14:46] <eroomde> i'm not sure i do!
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[14:48] <Hix> Prince and The Sign
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[14:50] <eroomde> ah!
[14:50] <eroomde> didn;t see my typo
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[15:16] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[15:16] <chrisstubbs> Hi jcoxon
[15:18] <jcoxon> hey chrisstubbs
[15:19] <jcoxon> in general would a faster crystal for an MCU be more resistant to cold temperatures?
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[15:21] <eroomde> no
[15:21] <eroomde> no difference
[15:21] <adamgreig> all that matters is the ppm per degree C
[15:21] <eroomde> the temperature coefficient is a ratio usually
[15:21] <adamgreig> and it's a relative measure
[15:21] <eroomde> so it is the same percentage drift regardless of abs freq
[15:22] <jcoxon> okay
[15:23] <jcoxon> i trying to decide whether i'd need to change the current resonator for a crystal on a board
[15:23] <eroomde> look at the ppm value as adam said, for each
[15:24] <adamgreig> usually crystals will be considerably better than resonators
[15:24] <adamgreig> but sometimes the resonators have matched load capacitors with opposite temperature coefficients so they are actually very good
[15:26] <adamgreig> hmm almost time to go for free drinks
[15:26] <adamgreig> this phd life is pretty ok
[15:26] <jcoxon> thanks eroomde adamgreig
[15:26] <eroomde> adamgreig, what's the occassion?
[15:27] <adamgreig> eroomde: div F welcome party
[15:27] <eroomde> nice
[15:27] <eroomde> i remember that
[15:27] <adamgreig> I got invited last year, then uninvited
[15:28] <adamgreig> well no - I got invited to the sigproc welcome party, then uninvited, because I was actually in control nominally
[15:28] <adamgreig> but I've been reinvited to sigproc party this year too
[15:28] <adamgreig> and last year I never got invited to div f, but now I am
[15:28] <jcoxon> ooooo actually its not going to be as hard as i thought, they've brought out the pads so i should be able to solder an crystal
[15:28] <adamgreig> handy
[15:29] <adamgreig> crystals will need those caps on as well, whereas resonators usually have the load caps internal
[15:29] <adamgreig> as I'm sure you already know :P
[15:29] <jcoxon> yeah, my experience is that crystals are much safer bet for HAB
[15:30] <jcoxon> especially floating HABs
[15:30] <jcoxon> this RFBee has a 26Mhz crystal as well for its onboard radio chip
[15:31] <jcoxon> but its a crystal rather than a resonator, it looked like on the schematic the atmega used a resonator but its worse - it actually uses the internal oscillator
[15:31] <jcoxon> but means i can actually add a crystal to the pads
[15:31] <adamgreig> yea the internal one will be pretty rubbish
[15:31] <jcoxon> a bit dead bug but hey
[15:31] <adamgreig> cool
[15:31] <adamgreig> no one needs to see ;)
[15:32] <jcoxon> exactly
[15:33] <jcoxon> and my balloon train internal wireless network will be online
[15:33] <adamgreig> nice
[15:34] <jcoxon> ooo CastAR kickstarter has been released
[15:34] <adamgreig> yea! I saw the video earlier
[15:34] <adamgreig> tempted...
[15:35] <adamgreig> everybody who has used it thinks it's amazing
[15:35] <henryplumb> ibanezmatt13 Did you put your ublox and ntx2 on protoboard or veroboard of anything?
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb, I did. But then I posted it to Upu and forgot one line of his address; it never made it
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> nor did it return
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> but yes I did initially, a nice piece of vero
[15:35] <jcoxon> adamgreig, i never really know about kickstarters
[15:36] <adamgreig> jcoxon: so I have backed a few
[15:36] <adamgreig> http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/adamgreig
[15:36] <adamgreig> at 32 now
[15:36] <adamgreig> and mostly it works out? :P
[15:36] <adamgreig> but with stuff like this it's a lot harder to say I guess
[15:36] <adamgreig> still jeri has a good track record
[15:36] <mattbrejza> not helped by import tax...
[15:36] <adamgreig> no indeed
[15:37] <adamgreig> right, party time I think
[15:37] <adamgreig> bbl
[15:37] <henryplumb> You got a diagram or image on how you wired it?
[15:37] <henryplumb> ibanematt13
[15:37] <henryplumb> ibanezmatt13
[15:37] <henryplumb> :L
[15:38] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[15:38] <chrisstubbs> Thats a terrible story ibanezmatt13 :( It must be a bad feeling to lose a GPS chip :P
[15:39] <ibanezmatt13> yep. Real shame. But to be fair, it probably wouldn't have worked anyway. It was my first one :P
[15:39] <henryplumb> (henryplumb) You got a diagram or image on how you wired it?
[15:39] <henryplumb> Oops!
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[15:41] <henryplumb> On a bus so signal fluctuating a lot!
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> erm
[15:42] <ibanezmatt13> no I just went for it :P
[15:43] <henryplumb> Okay, cheers anyway. You know where i need to put resistors etc with the pi and ntx2?
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[15:45] <eroomde> he does
[15:45] <eroomde> but he'll tell you correctly to first go and read about potential dividers
[15:45] <eroomde> so you can understand why you put them where you do
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[15:47] <eroomde> My United States of Whatever
[15:47] <eroomde> is over a decade old
[15:47] <eroomde> golly
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb, as eroomde said. You must understand how the potential divider circuit makes the NTX2 work before you start to design and make your board: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[15:48] <henryplumb> I do A2 electronics.
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> excellent
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> that should be a doddle then
[15:49] <henryplumb> Potential dividers were forced into my brain a year ago! :-)
[15:49] <eroomde> you're all set then
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[15:50] <henryplumb> :-)
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[15:50] <eroomde> it's to map the ttl level serial port from the pi to the correct voltage offset to get the desire freqeuency shift on the ntx2
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> basically
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> So if you sent it direct highs and lows, the shift would be ridiculous. So the 4K7s create a bias point along with a series resistor to get the shift to a calculated value
[15:51] <henryplumb> Okay cheers
[15:51] <henryplumb> Think I'll work on that when i get off this never ending bus journey ;-)
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> haha, good idea
[15:52] <henryplumb> I understand
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[15:53] <eroomde> henryplumb, are you doing this as an A2 project?
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[15:53] <henryplumb> Cheers ibanezmatt13 and eroomde I'll be off. Talk to y'all later
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> see you :)
[15:54] <henryplumb> eroomde no
[15:54] <eroomde> just for fun?
[15:54] <henryplumb> Yup
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> always the best way ^
[15:54] <henryplumb> Sure is
[15:54] <eroomde> v good
[15:55] <henryplumb> I find if I do a hobby thing as a college project, it becomes a chore and i dont enjoy it anymore
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> ''
[15:55] <eroomde> ^
[15:55] <eroomde> I think we've all been there
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[15:55] <henryplumb> Anyway, talk later!
[15:55] <eroomde> although my hobby turned into my job
[15:55] <eroomde> it's OK so far :)
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[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> lol eroomde :)
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[16:45] <chrisstubbs> Oops, this has only been running just over a week! http://i.imgur.com/A2RYdeK.png
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[16:47] <arko> haha
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[16:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Busy map...
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[17:37] <mfa298> apparently this is legit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/netflix-customer-service_n_4086365.html
[17:44] <arko> i get a little sad everytime i see a jim williams datasheet :/
[17:45] <arko> such good datasheets
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[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:57] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[17:57] <cm13g09> mfa298: If it is....
[17:57] <cm13g09> that is genius!
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[18:00] <LeoBodnar> arko: Jim Williams is awesome guy
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> *was
[18:01] <arko> indeed
[18:01] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/6810295914/in/set-72157629519614857
[18:01] <arko> i was lucky to catch that at the computer history museum
[18:01] <arko> super cool desk to see
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> brain explosion in slomo
[18:03] <arko> i stood there for like 30 minutes just looking at everything
[18:03] <arko> the whole thing is mind blowing
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> He had his instruments nicked by colleagues few times so he sometimes built these mazes on purpose
[18:04] <arko> yeah!
[18:04] <arko> so they wouldn't take them
[18:04] <arko> haha
[18:04] <arko> "oh thats hard to get to and looks important, better not take it..."
[18:05] <arko> brilliant
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> Taking a an instrument from live system is a below belt event
[18:05] <arko> agreed
[18:05] <arko> its like the bro-code of electronics
[18:05] <arko> you just dont do that
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> You do it once at each workplace :D
[18:07] <arko> hah
[18:07] <LeoBodnar> the weather is crap here :(
[18:08] <LeoBodnar> we need a deployment vehicle for picos
[18:08] <arko> its amazing over here, best weather all summer or what not
[18:08] <arko> UAV
[18:08] <LeoBodnar> all the mositure is here
[18:08] <arko> hah, so true
[18:08] <arko> i miss the rain
[18:08] <arko> we had 1 day of it last week
[18:08] <arko> it was so amazing
[18:09] <arko> it hadnt rained since like april or so
[18:09] <arko> or was it may
[18:09] <LazyLeopard> It didn't rain much on Saturday...
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[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[18:10] <arko> ello
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> the site about "is leo flying?" is cool
[18:11] <arko> hah
[18:11] <arko> yeah, i still need to script it, i've been stupid busy with school back in session
[18:11] <LeoBodnar> arko: was a dramatic step from -40C to -55C in your env testing experiments for electronics?
[18:11] <LeoBodnar> *it
[18:11] <arko> believe it or not, no
[18:11] <arko> i had parts rated for -40 working at -59
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> like QFN peeling off and conformal coating blistering, etc
[18:12] <arko> ohhh
[18:12] <arko> not that i noticed
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> OK, I was just fantasising
[18:12] <arko> i looked at it after it thaw'd out
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> did you try UBLOX at -55C?
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[18:13] <arko> ahhh nope
[18:13] <arko> oh wait
[18:13] <arko> yes
[18:13] <arko> ublox max 6
[18:13] <arko> held lock
[18:13] <arko> and that was indoors too
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> so what's so magic about -55C? Why tropopause stops at that temperature?
[18:17] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/VjdAjwD.jpg
[18:17] <arko> here it is at -59C
[18:17] <arko> i was actually trying to kill it
[18:17] <arko> for the record
[18:17] <arko> i wanted to see where the limit was
[18:17] <arko> not recommended as it could damage the device :)
[18:18] <arko> well -55C is the average
[18:18] <arko> thats the point where you still have convention playing a roll in heat transfer of your hab
[18:18] <arko> around 18km
[18:18] <arko> and its the coldest
[18:18] <arko> and just around there you being to have the ozone around 22km
[18:19] <arko> which is warmer thanks to it absorbing uv from the sun, but sadly after 18km the convection component in the heat transfer equation drops off drastically
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, on my flight I measured some -60°C at the tropopause
[18:19] <arko> so you never get that cozy ozone heat
[18:20] <arko> temperature is also one of those things that creeps up on you
[18:20] <arko> it may work for a few hours at -60C then drift/fail/whatnot
[18:20] <arko> brb, meeting
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> k
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, why do you need to reach Arctic Circle + 2° on the challenge?
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> experience handicap?
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> I don't know :) jcoxon came up with it and I just agreed
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[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:43] <keydash> anyone knows
[18:44] <keydash> why at the beginning of plug in the ntx2 the signal drift left and the right
[18:44] <keydash> and then stabilizes?
[18:44] <bertrik> temperature effect I guess
[18:44] <mfa298> the ntx2 is sensitive to temperature so you might find it's warming up a bit when you turn it on
[18:45] <bertrik> keydash: the new ntx2b is temperature compensated, so it hardly drifts in frequency with temperature
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[18:48] <keydash_> fuck off chrome
[18:48] <keydash_> temperature issue then?
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[18:48] <keydash_> I couldn't read all
[18:49] Nick change: keydash_ -> keydash
[18:49] <bertrik> yes, probably
[18:49] <keydash> so if i turn off now
[18:49] <bertrik> keydash: the new ntx2b is temperature compensated, so it hardly drifts in frequency with temperature
[18:49] <keydash> and turn on quickly
[18:49] <keydash> lenme see
[18:50] <keydash> you all got reason
[18:50] <keydash> thanks
[18:53] <keydash> well i bought the standard ntx2 few weeks ago
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[18:54] <keydash> i think it is well insulated it will do the job
[18:54] <Willdude123> keydash, language
[18:55] <keydash> what?
[18:55] <Willdude123> "f*** off chrome"
[18:55] <keydash> oh sorry
[18:55] <Willdude123> No problem.
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve, revised board looks all good to me!
[18:55] <keydash> It won't happen again
[18:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool Mate, I've done some more work on it now LOL
[18:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just astetics really
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[18:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Extended the groundplane back up but misses the ant
[18:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Thanks for looking it over for me
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> no worries
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> just make sure the ground plane is nowhere near the antenna
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> its harder to cut off with a scalpel than it sounds
[18:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Would you like a board if I cant it fabricated?
[18:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> If I get is fabricated
[18:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> My typing today, hopless
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> I have a bit of a stock of my own to get through first! but cheers for the offer
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> considerd using one as a shim earlier
[18:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
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[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> shim?
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> like a spacer for wedging things together
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> xd
[19:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Latest version: http://i.imgur.com/9WaNcYf.jpg
[19:01] <chrisstubbs> eek
[19:01] <Willdude123> I've made the decision to live stream all my homework via Google Docs, to make it more exciting. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z0bjFDCry6gnBlC5MMPHFKCCsoLUhxkBkHvFVOS1Nvc/edit?usp=sharing
[19:01] <chrisstubbs> I think it was better with the ground plane completley gone from the top
[19:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's useful for connecting the LEDs
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[19:02] <chrisstubbs> let me have another look at the DS
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[19:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Actually, I've probably left the polygon in place
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[19:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Andy :-)
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> LEDs can do with two thin GND traces, otherwise GND copper fill at the top serves no purpose
[19:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Fair enough Leo. Back to the previous design then....
[19:04] <chrisstubbs> aw man :( upu the chip antenna DS link on your site is dead :(
[19:04] <Upu> ds ?
[19:04] <chrisstubbs> datasheet
[19:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Eh?
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> Ground plane stitching are most useful around the edges and along he tracks. THis is where RF escapes / radiates from most
[19:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, right
[19:05] <Upu> 1 sec chrisstubbs
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> cheers
[19:05] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/JTI_Antenna-1575AT43A40_2006-09.pdf
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> unstitched groundplanes create two antennas otherwise
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[19:07] <Willdude123> Upu are you selling the Taoglas yet?
[19:07] <Upu> no
[19:07] <Upu> I'm busy trying to mop up any Sarantels that are left atm
[19:08] <Willdude123> OK
[19:08] <Upu> I tested a few patch antennas and they all do the same thing
[19:08] <Upu> don't work very well upside down
[19:08] <Upu> they work
[19:08] <Willdude123> I'll buy them from somewhere else then.
[19:08] <Upu> but not as well as the Sarantel
[19:08] <Upu> I may have a sample one you can have
[19:08] <Upu> I'll check tomorrow
[19:08] <Willdude123> OK thanks
[19:08] <Willdude123> It's weird - I can't find the right kind of header on the internet for my board.
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> G0TDJ_Steve: Distance between stitching vias along the edges should be 1/10th of the wavelength critical for your design
[19:09] <Willdude123> I think they're 0.1" ones.
[19:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Along the edges of what Leo?
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> Of the PCB edge
[19:09] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, pins or sockets?
[19:10] <Willdude123> Female Header, for male wires. So yeah sockets
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> Vias don't cost anything so it's a good idea to go mental on them
[19:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm not following you Leo, can you illustrate?
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40-Pin-0-1-2-54mm-Male-Female-SIL-Header-Socket-Single-Double-Row-Strip-IN-UK-/200906546562
[19:11] <chrisstubbs> the female ones tend to be wayyy more expensive when i have got them from ebay before
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[19:11] <Upu> hey LeoBodnar good recommendation on the guitar string
[19:11] <Upu> super easy to work with
[19:11] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/0pdNNK8.jpg
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> G0TDJ_Steve: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra367a/swra367a.pdf
[19:13] <mfa298> are we going to have a hab band with people playing their payloads at the next conference with all these guitar strings being used ?
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> I am trying to find a good image of RF groundplane design
[19:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers Leo, I'll have a good read...
[19:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL mfa298
[19:13] <Upu> they are bit spikey I'm tempted to blob some epoxy the end
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> Cool Upu !
[19:13] <chrisstubbs> haha, that looks like good reading LeoBodnar
[19:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll read it tonight, before I go asleep ;-)
[19:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Gotta AFK for a while - I'll be back!
[19:16] <chrisstubbs> laters
[19:17] <Upu> Damn Ibanezmatt learns quickly
[19:17] <Upu> last night "how do I website"
[19:17] <Upu> today www.norb.co.uk
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> imgur takes ages to load recently - is it just me?
[19:17] <Upu> fits and spurts
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[19:18] <chrisstubbs> Hah i saw that conversation last night
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> "NORB Features - NORB is awesome"
[19:18] <daveake> lol
[19:18] <LeoBodnar> Upu: loaded 50% of the image only
[19:19] <Upu> yeah thats the one
[19:19] <Upu> use dropbox instead
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> Kapton ftw
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> upu is he hosting that on his pi?
[19:20] <Upu> no idea
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> Instructions on scales use...
[19:21] <Upu> if he is he can have some bonus points
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[19:22] <LeoBodnar> 3.44g!
[19:22] <fsphil> it's not hosted on a Pi :)
[19:22] <fsphil> (CentOS)
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> Reminds me of my 1st 1200 Hayes
[19:23] <fsphil> never thought I'd consider 1200 baud to be fast in 2013
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> Ah, cool. Got almost all of it! Are you flying it finally Upu ?
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> lol
[19:23] <UpuWork> soon(TM)
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> Even 300 rules
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[19:24] <fsphil> my next one will use dave patented 600 baud
[19:24] <UpuWork> probably with just an AA on it
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> lol
[19:24] <daveake> 1200 is the new 600 :p
[19:25] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, So I want a straight single header socket?
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> MNP5compression
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> I dont know, do you?
[19:26] <Willdude123> I think so.
[19:26] <Willdude123> Not sure
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> thats like the stuff you get round the outside of your arduino uno
[19:26] <Willdude123> Oh yeah I do then
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[19:28] <chrisstubbs> what are you building then will?
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[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
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[19:36] <Upu> hi Matt
[19:36] <Upu> nice site
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[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> I have made progress :)
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[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> I took the summit theme after inspiration from Habduino
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> only problem Upu, how do you change the picture at the top?
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[19:38] <Upu> in the template
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> I've searched everywhere, couldn't find it
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> what template?
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> look for theme/summit/images/img04.jpg
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> ah in the server files. I'll take a look
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[19:40] <chrisstubbs> you might be able to do it from the web if its a CMS
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> not sure if you can, looks like you should be able to
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, can you modify the template and change the pic in the browser?
[19:41] <Upu> nah just upload a new pic of the same size
[19:41] <Upu> same file name
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok thanks
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> Any word from RMX?
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[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Hey chrisstubbs, you know where I could get some sort of nice HAB related header pic?
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> like this: http://habduino.org/
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> I cant belive you like my terrible payload illustration
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> Inspired by http://www.stratodean.co.uk/
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[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> lol
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[19:45] <chrisstubbs> can you take a snap from your pi footage?
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> pi footage was crap
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> :(
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> daveake knows why too ;)
[19:46] <daveake> tsk :p
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> I think the new flickr site must run off ZIP drives
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> SO SLOW
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> The only decent HAB related picture I have is one the homescreen, but that's not good enough for the header
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, feel free to steal any images from http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/sets/72157633427283826/
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> very kind of you, I'll have a browse
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> Or wait until i fly this darn ssdv thing for more
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> only temporarily of course
[19:47] <LazyLeopard> Nah, they've just layered so much useless fancy feature bloat into it that it thinks it's running off ZIP drives...
[19:48] <jedas> have question on ssdv. I've uploaded same images 3 times (3 transmissions), with same ID, but still got 3 different images. Is that supposed to be ?
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[19:48] <chrisstubbs> I think the server times out and moves onto a new images after 10 mins or so
[19:49] <jedas> in fldigi software I've got one whole image
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[19:49] <daveake> it's normal; fsphil will know the exact logic
[19:49] <jedas> i see
[19:49] <jedas> ok, thanks
[19:49] <fsphil> jedas: an image is closed after five minutes of inactivity
[19:49] <fsphil> but I can change this
[19:50] <jedas> for a now it's not very important. I just wanted to make sure that it's possible. My transmissions will have much lower rate than that
[19:50] <fsphil> chrisstubbs was right, 10 minutes
[19:51] <fsphil> yea that's possible jedas
[19:51] <jedas> cool :)
[19:51] <fsphil> the timing on the live site was just setup for habs
[19:51] <fsphil> but it can be anything
[19:52] <jedas> hm, or maybe let's try, higher res if that's not too much trouble?
[19:52] <jedas> could you put something like 6h ?
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, I deleted the img04.jpg that was already there and replaced it with a new one with exactly the same name. The old picture is still there
[19:53] <fsphil> I'll put that in for your callsign jedas
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[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait Upu, sorry it's changed
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> jedas, its set up so if the payload restarts anf goes back to 0 mid flight, it wont overwrite all the photos
[19:54] <jedas> ok, cool :)
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[19:54] <fsphil> don't think any payload has yet done 256 images :)
[19:54] <daveake> Closest would be my Pi floater I think
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[19:55] <jedas> :)
[19:55] <fsphil> indeed
[19:55] <daveake> Need to do that one again
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> thanks chrisstubbs http://www.norb.co.uk/
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> looks awesome
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[19:58] <chrisstubbs> awesomeee
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[20:01] <fsphil> should be 6 hours for your callsign now jedas
[20:01] <fsphil> that includes existing images on there now
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[20:09] <LeoBodnar> Pi floater, what floater!? You woke me up!
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> What where when?
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[20:10] <fsphil> latex :)
[20:10] <fsphil> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1063
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know how I can add links in HTML? Like the quick links on the right of this: http://www.habduino.org/
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> I know where to put it, just don't know what to put :)
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> <a href="http://google.com">Google</a>
[20:13] <daveake> <a href="http.....">some text</a>
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[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[20:13] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, Still my breakout board
[20:13] <Willdude123> Just waiting for it to arrive
[20:13] <chrisstubbs> Ah right cool, have they just turned up then?
[20:14] <Willdude123> Nope
[20:14] <Willdude123> Shipped Sept 22
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[20:14] <chrisstubbs> any time soon then
[20:14] <Willdude123> Maybe
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> daveake: Ah, excellent float, surprisingly deep sag overnight
[20:15] <daveake> Well it was quite high!
[20:15] <fsphil> I tried doing a similar flight recently
[20:15] <daveake> Upu and I launched at the same time, and his ended up in Austria and mine was lost over Switzerland
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> Do you have any rough estimation of how much Helium would have diffused over the 24h period?
[20:16] <daveake> Amazing how different the flights were
[20:16] <daveake> None
[20:16] <daveake> It was hydrogen :P
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> :)
[20:19] <Willdude123> Right I need to do some work on presenting my case for getting an antenna to my parents
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> daveake: what was the free lift and ascend rate for this flight? was it 1600g balloon?
[20:20] <bertrik> What's likely the issue? money to buy the antenna? or a place to put it?
[20:21] <jedas> by the way, do you do antenna trackers, or just omni antennas ?
[20:21] <fsphil> most are omni
[20:21] <fsphil> there are a few with steerable yagis
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> jedas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzDGeg7U5RE
[20:22] <jedas> nice :)
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[20:22] <daveake> Yes 1600g. Ascent rate about 2.2m/s. Can't remember the free lift
[20:22] <Upu> I know that antenna :)
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> I know that sound :D
[20:22] <Upu> lol
[20:22] <fsphil> hah
[20:22] <fsphil> it's a great sound
[20:23] <Upu> your sound track was most pleasing
[20:24] <Upu> I should have put a bit of Domino in there
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> it's "atmospheric"
[20:24] <Upu> I just like the distant beeping
[20:24] <Upu> yes :)
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[20:25] <LeoBodnar> It sort of tells you just a little bit without telling the whole lot.
[20:25] <fsphil> mmmm motorised antenna or castar glasses
[20:26] <Willdude123> bertrik, place to put it.
[20:26] <Willdude123> Also how to put it up and where.
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> daveake: that's only 50% ascent rate vs regular flight?
[20:27] <Willdude123> I'm thinking a 2m pole mounted just under the apex of my granddad's roof.
[20:27] <daveake> yup
[20:27] <Willdude123> Should do the trick.
[20:27] <daveake> Wanted to be sure of a float
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[20:28] <Willdude123> Anyone know what range a W-50 would have?
[20:28] <daveake> Anything <4m/s is a possible float on a 1600 Hwoyee
[20:28] <daveake> with a light payload
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> But you target free lift on launch not ascent rate?
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> I mean control
[20:29] <daveake> yes
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> so it would be about 50% of normal lift?
[20:29] <daveake> I just use the burst calculator to give the neck lift for the target rate
[20:29] <daveake> less
[20:30] <daveake> well less free lift
[20:30] <daveake> Neck lift was less than my filler weight :p
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> And it still went up at 2.2m/s ? Is drag ~ 2nd power of airspeed? Can't remember now.
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:32] <daveake> I think that's right. Certainly it takes a *lot* more lift to double ascent
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> This makes sense then
[20:32] <daveake> so yes you need a lot less free lift to get down to 2m/s
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> k SpeedEvil
[20:36] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the site is looking good :D
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> haha, yes mfa298 certainly is :)
[20:36] <DL1SGP1> evening folks!
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:39] <mfa298> next challenge is to have more than one page on it.
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> that's easy though :P
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[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> everything seems pretty quiet here. I'm off for a cup of tea
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> night night :)
[20:50] <chrisstubbs> Night ibanezmatt13
[20:51] <chrisstubbs> check the mailing list for lolz
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[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, XD
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[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> ping mfa298
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[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> You know that DNS stuff we were doing before to get different URLs to go to the same website? Well, I thought we did it so norb.co.uk would work. www.norb.co.uk works, but it doesn't work without the www.
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[21:08] <mfa298> you might want to check if they were both changed
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[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> I've got one that's in the form * , type A, then your server ip mfa298
[21:10] <adamgreig> you need .
[21:11] <adamgreig> rather than just subdomains
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> so replace the * with a .?
[21:11] <adamgreig> no probably not
[21:11] <adamgreig> depends on the tool you're using to set it
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> one sec
[21:11] <adamgreig> might need an empty field. or a .. or youir domain name itself.
[21:11] <adamgreig> and you probably then also just want www
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> got that one
[21:12] <adamgreig> so you have like "yoursite.com A 11.22.33.44" and also "www.yoursite.com A 11.22.33.44"
[21:12] <adamgreig> (you could be cool and have www.youriste.com CNAME yoursite.com instead, too)
[21:13] <mfa298> might be an @ A <IP>
[21:14] <adamgreig> oh yea
[21:14] <adamgreig> 123reg mention @
[21:14] <adamgreig> I prefer it when they get you to specify the whole domain
[21:14] <mfa298> if there are some MX records in there use the same as they have at the start
[21:16] <ibanezmatt13> sorted it
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[21:19] <Laurenceb__> http://www.google.com/patents?id=RgsRAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
[21:19] <Laurenceb__> ^wut?
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[21:19] <Laurenceb__> PMMA doesnt dissolve in NaOH
[21:20] bbjunkie (bbjunkie@i-83-67-136-45.freedom2surf.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:21] <Laurenceb__> some kind of patent lies maybe
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> Hey mfa298 I added my next page :)
[21:31] <mfa298> you might want to consider how you put your email address online - unless you want lots of spam
[21:32] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[21:32] <ibanezmatt13> good point
[21:33] <ibanezmatt13> done
[21:33] <mfa298> you might find there's a contact form option you can get for that software
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[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, will have a look tomorrow
[21:37] <mfa298> looks like there are a few plugins for feedback / contact
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[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, they'll be good
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[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> noght all
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> night
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[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> rather
[21:49] <mfa298> night
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[21:50] <ibanezmatt13> gn
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[22:03] Nick change: bbjunkie_ -> bbjunkie
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[22:29] <DL7AD_> blub
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[22:39] <WillTablet> Reading up about lgbt rights. Seems my Granddad's views went out of fashion in the late 70s
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[23:26] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://isleoflying.com/ it's dynamic now
[23:27] <arko> thanks to some ajax and a coffee beark
[23:28] <adamgreig> haha excellent
[23:30] <arko> break*
[23:30] <arko> damn i need more coffee
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[00:00] --- Tue Oct 15 2013