highaltitude.log.20131013

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[02:37] <chrisjake> Hi, I'm just starting out and am following the linking to arduino guide here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 . Having a bit of trouble with hooking up the radio to fldigi (I'm not experienced with ham), was wondering if anyone could give me a hand?
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[03:31] <wd8mnv> what radio do you have?
[03:36] <chrisjake> yaesu 790rii
[03:36] <chrisjake> ive got the beeps coming through from the arduino.
[03:37] <chrisjake> havn't had any success hooking it up to fldigi. not sure if thats cause im running it through a usb soundcard or because i am using fldigi incorrectly - not sure what 99% of the terms mean.
[03:38] <wd8mnv> usually you hook the audio from the radio into a computer, then tell dldigi what audio source to use
[03:38] <chrisjake> yup, i told it to use the soundcard.
[03:39] <chrisjake> tried using both the mic in and line in ports from the yaesu external speaker
[03:40] <wd8mnv> can you hear the radio audio at all?
[03:40] <chrisjake> i can hear it if i unplug it from the computer.
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[03:40] <chrisjake> and if i set up the computer to record from the soundcard, i can record the input
[03:40] <chrisjake> (from the radio)
[03:41] <chrisjake> so i think the radio-soundcard-computer connection is working okay
[03:42] <wd8mnv> if you pull up the mixer you might see what input you're actually using... sometimes if you have a front port and a back port you have to tell fldigi which one it is
[03:44] <chrisjake> mixer?
[03:45] <wd8mnv> using windows?
[03:45] <chrisjake> oh right. i thought you mean in fldigi. hold on a sec
[03:47] <chrisjake> hmm. can't see any input devices there (including the laptops built in mic. just speakers)
[03:48] <wd8mnv> is the radio plugged in?
[03:48] <chrisjake> but if i look at input devices in control panel i can see the bars moving up and down
[03:48] <wd8mnv> (audio)
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[03:49] <wd8mnv> what's it labeled as?
[03:50] <chrisjake> under control panel, sounds, recording; i can see the input from the radio. its listed as SB X-Fi surround 5.1 pro Line In, which is the name of the external sound card.
[03:51] <wd8mnv> ok... that's what you tell fldigi to use as its input
[03:51] <wd8mnv> line in
[03:54] <chrisjake> ahh. it was listed a a subset of that. boy do i feel stupid :S
[03:54] <chrisjake> now im just getting a wall of noise. but there is a lot of static.
[03:55] <wd8mnv> is it still beeping?
[03:58] <chrisjake> yup. i played a bit with the frequency dial and am now at 434.076.2 and am getting two differently pitched tones with minimal static.
[04:00] <wd8mnv> k... sounds like you have it now
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[04:03] <chrisjake> yeah. very cool :)
[04:03] <chrisjake> thanks for your help!
[04:04] <wd8mnv> yw
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[06:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> Morning All
[06:31] <enkidu> hello
[06:32] <enkidu> SP9UOB-Tom: freq?
[06:34] <Upu> 437,5966 MHz
[06:35] <enkidu> ah see it
[06:37] <enkidu> anyways, gqrx stopped piping sound for me
[06:38] <enkidu> PULSEAUDIO
[06:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> enkidu: got something?
[06:45] <enkidu> nothing
[06:45] <enkidu> also I got only horizontal antenna on roof
[06:45] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-Based_X-Band_Radar
[06:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> it should approach Swedish coast now
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[06:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> parser logtail is dead?
[06:58] <x-f> yup, was working earlier
[06:59] <x-f> it had your payloads sentences with zero time
[06:59] <x-f> and it probably rebooted, because sentence_id was around 60
[07:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: yes watchdog has rebooted it
[07:02] Action: SP9UOB-Tom will never ever use i2c to talk to the GPS :-)
[07:03] <x-f> you live and learn
[07:04] Action: x-f goes out to search for the missing cat. :/
[07:05] <Darkside> watching the final ep of Babylon 5 :(
[07:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: Your cat doesnt have tracker on the necklace? Impossible ;-)
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[07:08] <DL1SGP1> Good morning everyone
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[07:13] <Peter_PA1SDB> gm
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[07:17] <enkidu> Ive just received mail, that my friend referred me as .NET Developer. Most funny is, I am against .NET and avoid using it even as normal user
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[07:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> tracker is on the solar power now
[07:30] <wb8elk> What frequency are you using?
[07:30] <Upu> needs more Brian
[07:30] <Upu> morning Bill
[07:30] <wb8elk> Hi Anthony...thought I'd try listening for Thomas's balloon via a Globaltuner in Sweden
[07:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> 437,596.6
[07:30] <Upu> poor Brian, no HAB's for months then about 3 in 3 days
[07:30] <Upu> good plan
[07:31] <wb8elk> thanks Tom...I'll take a listen via Globaltuners
[07:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> flags &0x0200 = solar power
[07:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: thank You. The tracker behaves strangely - it is ocassionally reseted by watchdog - propably because i2c problems
[07:32] <wb8elk> How often does it transmit?
[07:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: continiously, with small 5 seconds gaps every 5 minutes
[07:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: .... at least it should... ;-)
[07:34] <wb8elk> Several of us on the Vidablick Sweden Global Tuner radio but nothing heard.
[07:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> Brian: wake up! :-)
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[07:38] <wb8elk> hearing Morse Code with your callsign on the Vidablick receiver
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[07:39] <wb8elk> Tom...how often does it identify in Morse code?
[07:39] <OH7HJ> Anybody have experience about this Tx with balloons? Should be suitable for 144 MHz APRS tracking. SRB MX145 Transmitter, https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=134&osCsid=eadq936aarra4722v7j82sjf51
[07:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: every 5 minutes, after the 5 seconds gap
[07:40] <wb8elk> Make sure to get the 5-volt version...otherwise you would need an 8-volt regulator for the 8-volt version
[07:41] <wb8elk> wonder why I don't hear the telemetry?
[07:41] <wb8elk> just heard the Morse
[07:41] <wb8elk> it seemed strong
[07:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: did you receive qth locator?
[07:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: propably it cant read gps, because of f.... i2c
[07:42] <wb8elk> As soon as we get the radio tuned to the right frequency...I'm listening for the next update
[07:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> wb8elk: after reset it sends callsign via morse code
[07:43] <wb8elk> takes 15 seconds to adjust the frequency on Globaltuners...tough to do with a short transmission every 5 minutes :-)
[07:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, im going to solder next board :-)
[07:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> maybe i should send rescue mission ;-)
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[07:51] <wb8elk> sending RTTY again now
[07:51] <wb8elk> too weak to copy...but coming up in strength
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[07:55] <wb8elk> 07523,56.28259,14.42750,7823,7680,76,0,-1,37280,152
[07:55] <wb8elk> copied by Piatek on the Globaltuners radio
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[07:57] <fsphil> it seems to regurlarly transmit 00:00:00 as its time
[07:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: yes, it cant get time from GPS
[07:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i2c is behaving stranely
[07:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: i2c is behaving strangely
[07:59] <fsphil> hmm
[07:59] <wb8elk> From Peri onGlobalTuners: $SP9UOB,364,0$SP9UOB,364,000000,0,0,0,7674,0,0,-1,37312,152,c0*6E39
[08:00] <wb8elk> From "Feri" :$$SP9UOB,364,000000,0,0,0,7674,0,0,-1,37312,152,c0*6E39
[08:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> flags&0x0008 = GPS communication ok otherwise - timeout
[08:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> presssure altitude: 7674 - nice
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[08:01] <Upu> so still up cool
[08:01] <Upu> and floating
[08:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> i2c is working ok - communicates with pressure sensor with no problems. But talking to ublox is somewhat wrong
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[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> If I have a variable byte flightmode_status = 0; Because I've declared it as a byte, what would the format specifier be if I wanted to use it in sprintf()?
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> Could I just use "%d" ?
[08:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> %d
[08:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> %x
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> or %o - what do You like ;-)
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[08:09] <wb8elk> Copied the Morse Code that time: de SP9UOB JO76BI ALT 7174 (not sure about the altitude though)
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[08:10] <wb8elk> Not sending RTTY continuously...only on occasion
[08:11] <wb8elk> we have it at 437.597.0 MHz and it is about 1800 Hz in the waterfall at that point 1550 Hz...it does drift
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[08:14] <RS010> $$SP9UOB,420,000p0p,5;33#G0v177,776(7168,0,0,5,37833,15&,29b*36CF
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[08:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> 29b = solar power, GPS PSM, airborne mode, 3Dfix
[08:17] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: stdint.h is recommended. google it :)
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[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> ok fsphil :)
[08:18] <fsphil> a byte is uint8_t
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> But I can still use %d for its format specifier in sprintf()?
[08:20] <fsphil> yup
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> sweet
[08:20] <fsphil> d is for decimal
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[08:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[08:25] <fsphil> morning
[08:25] <wb8elk> Tom the RTTY jumps around about 100 Hz up and down during transmit
[08:25] <RS010> $$SP9UOB,445,000000,56.41552,13.89878,7656,7532,80,0,7,38079,1m5,29b*97F3
[08:25] <wb8elk> discrete jumps at times
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[08:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom im here now, waiting for next tx
[08:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> next
[08:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> first decode was bad $$SP9UOB,457,000000,56.43603,13.81706,7684,7536l79,0,4,3X058,155,"9b*189E
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[08:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> hello Brian :-)
[08:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> got a green now
[08:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cw uobsp9uobattmt66ux{--..-}o66ukalt7629
[08:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its really jumpy, fldigi having a hard time decoding
[08:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ill stream the audio on mms://linkupmine.nu:18080
[08:33] <Upu> need a super cap on it SP9UOB-Tom :)
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[08:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: yes, the solar is directly tied (via blocking diode) to the power bus
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[08:34] <fsphil> typical, predicted to pass near scotland when I'm not there :)
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[08:34] <Upu> yeah super cap on it next time to smooth it a little under TX
[08:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: this was a experiment :-) but maybe too many experiments at once :-)
[08:34] <Upu> Its a good experiment as you have some ideas to better it :)
[08:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: have You ever talk to ublox via i2c?
[08:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cw now
[08:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sp9uobjo66tljo66tlalt7660m
[08:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, next board goes to the oven :-)
[08:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> jo66tl
[08:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> one rtty packet and then stopped
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[08:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> gps is pooled at the end of RTTY transmission
[08:39] <DL1SGP1> SP9UOB-Tom: it seems to be traveling with a quite nice speed now :)
[08:39] <DL1SGP1> hej brian
[08:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hej
[08:39] <DL1SGP1> last position was 56.49775,13.56814
[08:39] <DL1SGP1> so it is getting closer to you Brian :)
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[08:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes it is
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[08:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom how long time is it off air at a time?
[08:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: it shoulndt be of-air longer tahn 5 secs, but something went wrong
[08:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its been off over 7min now
[08:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> CW!
[08:45] <DL1SGP1> cw
[08:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> green rtty
[08:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> good
[08:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> JO66QM
[08:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> also heading reads are wron
[08:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> g
[08:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> stopped in the middle of line 3
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[08:47] <DL1SGP1> indeed
[08:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> your not making this easy for us Tom :-)
[08:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so lets see, last delay was 7min
[08:48] <DL1SGP1> enough time to prep some coffee :D
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[08:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: ;-) next time i'll do better ;-)
[08:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway: amazing power saving :-)
[08:49] <Upu> lol
[08:49] <number10> :)
[08:49] <DL1SGP1> cw
[08:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, next board is baked :-_
[08:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Tom you can listen yourself on my stream mms://linkupmine.nu:18080
[08:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: im on linux, and mplayer nor vlc cant play this url
[08:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh ok
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[08:53] <DL1SGP1> it is transmitting alot now
[08:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> back to cw
[08:54] <DL1SGP1> vidablick is losing it
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[08:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom VLC player can
[08:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> mine cannot - maybe because lack of support compiled in: Your input can't be opened:
[08:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> VLC is unable to open the MRL 'mms://linkupmine.nu:18080'. Check the log for details.
[08:56] <Upu> remove the mms:// ?
[08:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> To open a stream sent over http (Webradios, WebTVs, Shoutcast, Icecast...), ftp, or mms (Microsoft Media Server), select "HTTP/FTP/MMS", and give the corresponding complete URL, (such as http://live.stream.org:8080/live or mms://live.ms.stream.net:8080/live.asf) in the corresponding text input. This also the way to open a RTSP stream with the MacOS X interface.
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[08:58] <malgar> I have the same problem
[09:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> http://elearning.etsu.edu/macmmsguide/index.html
[09:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> No stream found to handle url mms://linkupmine.nu:18080/live.asf
[09:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah im i idiot, sorry, link is:
[09:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> mms://linkup.mine.nu:18080
[09:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sorry about that
[09:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> got it !
[09:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: :-))
[09:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah i need to open my eyes :-)
[09:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> nice S/N anyway :-)
[09:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes 28dB
[09:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> definitely i have to use at least LDO for solar
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[09:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OZ9AEH is onboard now
[09:10] <DL1SGP1> woot!"
[09:11] <DL1SGP1> if the current prediction on snus is correct it will keep you busy for a while :)
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[09:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: got green decode via Yours receiver :-)
[09:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> nice :-)
[09:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> current freq is 437.595.4
[09:13] <bertrik> What's the current status of B-19?
[09:13] <Upu> most likely landed bertrik
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[09:14] <DL1SGP1> and compared to the joyful hopping continental european ninja squirrel the grey ones in UK are a bit more lazy, so re-launch assistance might take a while
[09:14] <bertrik> Upu: thanks, I was wondering if it just lost radio contact and might still be floating, perhaps above the netherlands now
[09:15] <Upu> Suspect it got wet
[09:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> well someone has update the map, that it can take 000000 time. Thank You !
[09:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> time stamps again
[09:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> moving rx down 200hZ
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[09:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, next tracker is ready - i have to rollback software to use NMEA over uart now :-)
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[09:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> desp9uobsp9uobjo66hrjo66hralt7232m
[09:25] <daveake> SP9UOB-Tom You had problems with i2c?
[09:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: yes, not with the bus but with the ublox
[09:26] <daveake> ok, and did you see anything wrong in testing or just the flight?
[09:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: as you can see, it randomly hangs, cant take time from receiver and so on
[09:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: no - on the balcony everything was working ok
[09:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: bus is ok, because pressure and temperature readings are ok
[09:27] <daveake> OK in that case not sure, but the ublox does clock-stretching at arbitrary times, and some i2c hosts can't handle that
[09:28] <daveake> e.g. the Pi, which is why my Pi ublox i2c code uses bit-banging and not the hardware i2c
[09:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: the tracker is working now thanks to watchdog timer only :-)
[09:28] <daveake> ooer!
[09:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: thanks for point - i just dig in pic documentation
[09:29] <daveake> yes, do
[09:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: i want to release one uart for SSDV camera :-)
[09:29] <daveake> :)
[09:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: clok stretching, means that slave can hold down the clock line ?
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[09:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> clock
[09:30] <daveake> yes
[09:31] <daveake> and in the case of the ublox this could happen at any time
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[09:31] <daveake> and that's what causes the problem on the Pi, because the h/w i2c only accepts clock stretching at certain times
[09:31] <daveake> AIUI this is a h/w issue and not solvable in the driver
[09:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> strange thing is, that all was working ok in case of 'static' navigation - when the tracker was on the balcony everything was ok
[09:31] <daveake> sure
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[09:32] <daveake> I did see the problem in testing with the pi
[09:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> so You can confirm that on 'static' ewerything was ok ?
[09:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> everything
[09:33] <daveake> No, it failed randomly when static
[09:33] <daveake> IIRC it missed characters rather than hanging
[09:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> hmmm, maybe i was testing in too short period ;-)
[09:34] <daveake> maybe
[09:34] <daveake> Pull-ups are the other likely issue with i2c, but then your other devices are working
[09:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> no, i never have missed chars - the checksum was ok all the times
[09:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh a new RX? OZ5LBM
[09:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> nice
[09:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> but it seems to have problem when in airborne mode AND has PSM(cyclic) turned on
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[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: from microchip's datasheet: An addressed slave device
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> may hold the SCLx clock line low after receiving or
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> sending a bit, indicating that it is not yet ready to
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> continue. The master that is communicating with the
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> slave will attempt to raise the SCLx line in order to
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> transfer the next bit, but will detect that the clock line
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> has not yet been released. Because the SCLx
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> connection is open-drain, the slave has the ability to
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> hold that line low until it is ready to continue
[09:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> communicating.
[09:42] <eroomde> that's amazing
[09:42] <eroomde> 4 more lines and you'd have a sonnet
[09:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: sorry
[09:43] <eroomde> :)
[09:43] <eroomde> copying and pasting from PDFs is one of those things that should be really easy
[09:44] <eroomde> but for some reason in ancient times, god decided it would always not-quite-work
[09:44] <eroomde> regardless of context
[09:44] <eroomde> and thus it has always been so
[09:44] <eroomde> especially the multicolumn joy favoured by a lot of papers and datasheets
[09:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> so in fact clock stretching shoulnd by a problem for my PIC
[09:46] <daveake> ok cool
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[09:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: maybe in poversave - cyclic i2c stack in ublox ist just turned off...
[09:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok its time to walk :-)
[09:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> afk
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[10:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> long pause again
[10:01] ibanezmatt13 (1f3776d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.55.118.213) joined #highaltitude.
[10:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> back
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[10:05] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: 437.700 MHz ham radio balloon heading for UK http://t.co/frYHX3sSvf #hamradio #ukhas
[10:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> 437.600!
[10:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 437595! :-)
[10:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but that link is for SP3OSJ´s pico
[10:08] <fsphil> pico overload
[10:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tx pause again
[10:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes, and the photo is Leo's
[10:10] <DL1SGP1> heh
[10:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> :-)
[10:10] M6GTG_Andrew (516285cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.98.133.203) joined #highaltitude.
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, for an NTX2 and arduino, do you know off the top of your head the delay between pulses to achieve 50 baud? Or perhaps where I could find out
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> I've heard that it's not what you'd expect it to be
[10:11] <fsphil> 1 / 50 seconds
[10:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> Artur was send me Leo's tracker photo and told me that is his construction... I really dont like such behavior
[10:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> ibanezmatt13: 20 ms
[10:11] <fsphil> it probably will be as expected, if you're not using interrupts
[10:11] DF2MZ (5b068f81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.6.143.129) joined #highaltitude.
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> right, erm. The example on the Wiki confuses me
[10:12] <fsphil> there'll be some extra time between functions calls, general C overhead
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[10:12] <fsphil> but tiny
[10:12] <mfa298> I think the wiki gives a slightly longer timeout than that but not by much
[10:12] <DF2MZ> Hi all, name here is Edgar
[10:12] <DF2MZ> I am receiving SP9UOB
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[10:12] <DL1SGP1> Hi Edgar!
[10:12] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[10:13] <DF2MZ> weak but CW is readable
[10:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> welcome Edgar
[10:13] <fsphil> it uses two delays as the function only accepts an int16_t
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, http://pastebin.com/hGt1EfS7
[10:13] <DF2MZ> location is Kiel JO54di
[10:13] <fsphil> the maximum value is 16384
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> oh I SEE
[10:13] <fsphil> well, 16383
[10:13] <fsphil> so to get a 20000 delay it needs two calls
[10:13] <fsphil> not sure where the 150 comes from
[10:14] <fsphil> I'd ignore it
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[10:14] <mfa298> from the text above I'd guess it's a tweak if the clock isn't quite running at 20MHz
[10:14] <fsphil> possibly
[10:14] <fsphil> on average it's probably not needed
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> So for 8MHz it's ok?
[10:15] <fsphil> or even slightly shorter than 20000 to take into account the overhead
[10:15] <DL1SGP> Edgar, wenn du Hilfe brauchst fuer die Einrichtung vol dl-fldigi sag Bescheid :)
[10:15] <fsphil> 150ns isn't going to cause you any trouble :)
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[10:15] <mfa298> as long as the code knows the clock speed it should be fine.
[10:16] <fsphil> 150us even
[10:16] <DF2MZ> ich bleibe bei CW, brauch den Rechner gerade für was anderes, danke
[10:16] <fsphil> us is microseconds isn't it? I get my units confused
[10:16] <DL1SGP> ok
[10:16] <mfa298> in AVR code you define F_CPU to the clock speed, arduino may do that in the background for you
[10:16] <fsphil> it does
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> good
[10:18] <fsphil> you could use delay(20)
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[10:19] <ibanezmatt13> I've salvaged an NTX2 from the Pi flight I did. All the pins have snapped off so I've just soldered some wires to each of the pads. So now I can use it with my breadboard to sort out some code for it with the Arduino :)
[10:21] <fsphil> nice
[10:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well salvaged
[10:23] <fsphil> if this payload keeps going it'll be within range of the UK in 8 or 9 hours
[10:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> We can hope
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[10:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom OZ5AGJ in north west OZ will be tracking soon also
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[10:25] <DF2MZ> SP9UOB frequency is drifting pretty heavily
[10:26] <DF2MZ> can the digimode account for that?
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[10:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dl-fldigi have a AFC that can handle it most of the time
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[10:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im decoding fine here
[10:27] <DF2MZ> no problem in CW ;-)
[10:27] <DF2MZ> it is very weak here
[10:28] DL1SGP1 (~DL1SGP@dhcp134.signon1.uk.beevpn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DF2MZ nice to have you onboard, we miss a tracking station in north DL / south OZ
[10:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> you fill in nicely there :-)
[10:28] <DF2MZ> JO54di here
[10:28] <DF2MZ> near Kiel
[10:28] <DF2MZ> thx
[10:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> JO56DG
[10:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> well you see it on the map :-)
[10:28] <DF2MZ> balloon distance is roughly 300 km
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[10:29] <DF2MZ> heading 16°
[10:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats a long way for a pico
[10:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 108km from here
[10:29] <DF2MZ> what is it's power
[10:29] <DF2MZ> ?
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[10:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 10mW i think
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[10:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom i did lower the RX to 437.594.7 now
[10:31] <DF2MZ> last CW transmission was too weak here
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[10:33] g8lze (d4386511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.56.101.17) joined #highaltitude.
[10:36] <DF2MZ> JO57ob, 6932 m
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[10:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> seems it hit a cloud cover now
[10:42] <DF2MZ> is it supposed to go higher?
[10:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no
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[10:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but you never know
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[10:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cloud cover again
[10:46] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to get my Arduino to work on my PC. I've tried reinstalling drivers and the device manager says the device is working properly. However, in the Arduino ide, no matter which COM port I try, it doesn't work :/ any pointers?
[10:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> What does Device Manager say the COM port is ?
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13> COM5
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13> When I try that in Arduino, it says COM5 is already in use
[10:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you rebooted since it was last used ? Sometimes a port can get blocked.
[10:48] <PE2G> Hi, am tracking Essen 12UTC met-sonde (APRS) : http://nl.aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FPE2G-11&timerange=10800&tail=10800
[10:48] <ibanezmatt13> the PC?
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[10:48] <ibanezmatt13> I've rebooted Arduino and Arduin IDE. I'll try rebooting PC.
[10:48] <ibanezmatt13> brb
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[10:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes something has opened the port, and left it open and the program has closed
[10:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom i´ve sent an alert to LA3EQ
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[10:52] <DF2MZ> JO57kd, 6844 m
[10:54] <nats`> hi boyz !
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[10:58] <ibanezmatt13> Geoff-G8DHE, rebooting didn't work
[10:59] <ibanezmatt13> same error, COM3 already in use
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[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have a look in the Task Manager and see if anything else is likely to be using a COM port ?
[11:00] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> It won't tell you directly but there might be something running that shouldn't be
[11:01] <mikestir> lol windows
[11:01] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[11:01] <ibanezmatt13> nothing I can see Geoff-G8DHE
[11:02] <mikestir> it's like the os version of those screwdrivers you get in a christmas cracker
[11:02] <daveake> Usual culprits ... Windows thinking the device is a mouse, or some phone software (e.g. Nokia) trying to see if there's a phone on it
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[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> it says in the device manager that there is an Arduino Uno connected to COM3
[11:02] <Joel_re> hey, I have a few (probably stupid questions) about http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> nothing is working
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[11:03] <Joel_re> 1) what does (R3 || R1) mean?
[11:03] <Joel_re> is that an logical OR
[11:03] <jonsowman> R3 in parallel with R1
[11:03] <Joel_re> ah
[11:03] <Joel_re> got it
[11:03] <Joel_re> the last line there
[11:03] <Joel_re> 2000Hz/V = 1056
[11:03] <Joel_re> which Volts is he refering to
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[11:05] <jonsowman> that means 2kHz per volt
[11:05] <jonsowman> so since we have .53 Volts
[11:05] <jonsowman> the predicted shift is 1056Hz
[11:06] <Joel_re> ok
[11:06] <Joel_re> thanks jonsowman
[11:06] <jonsowman> no problem :)
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[11:08] <craag> Ofcom just discussed airborne at AR license review
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[11:08] <craag> ANswer is no.
[11:08] <chrisstubbs> :(
[11:09] <mfa298> any reasons ?
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[11:10] <craag> CAA apparently is very opposed to it
[11:10] <chrisg7ogx> good morning can someone give me a link to a picture of Leo Bodnar's wonderful B series of trackers please?
[11:11] <craag> and they would control any decision
[11:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://leobodnar.com
[11:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisg7ogx: http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/
[11:11] <mfa298> well we knew CAA could be the problem there.
[11:12] <mfa298> would be useful to know why CAA are opposed to it.
[11:12] <craag> Not sure they know that.
[11:12] <chrisg7ogx> steve g0tdj thanks mate
[11:12] <mfa298> probably a case of we [CAA] can't be bothered investigating so Computer says No!
[11:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> No worries, Geoff-G8DHE posted too
[11:12] <fsphil> likely
[11:13] <craag> Will see if I can ask after. (already 15 minutes overrun)
[11:13] <mikestir> it seems a bit of stretch that it should be up to the CAA. But then ofcom doesn't seem to lay claim to anything being their job these days
[11:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> craag: Please get contact name/number of whom we could approach
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[11:14] <mfa298> I suppose the first question is how much support do we have from ofcom for wanting a change. If they can't be bothered then they're not going to force ofcom to talk about it.
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[11:15] <craag> Yeah ofcom man said there's no chance.
[11:15] <craag> No idea of rsgb position yet.
[11:15] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: I think we need to go through RSGB
[11:16] <craag> Who was the guy who was pursuing it at the RSGB?
[11:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Why not go for the root of the problem - RSGB is useless right now
[11:16] <mfa298> craag: it was Iain G4SGX (or something like that who had been talkingto the RSGB previously)
[11:16] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: Ofcom don't answer to individuals :/
[11:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> HOw about the CAA?
[11:17] <bbjunkie> G0TDJ_Steve it may be but its the best we've got - as craag says they wont listen to anyone else
[11:17] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: I'll see what answers I can get..
[11:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> And anyway, if we want change we need to form a dedicated group/organisation to organise just what we DO want and present it professionally
[11:17] <mfa298> unless we can persuade ofcom to invite us to talk to CAA directly there's probably not going to be much joy talking to CAA directly
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[11:19] <mfa298> as far as I can tell ofcom just want to make their lives as easy as possible.
[11:20] <mfa298> (it looks like they're making more stuff on CB legal - AM/SSB as well as FM) - presumably meaning they don't have to worry about people who are currently operating illegally.
[11:21] <fsphil> not changing power limits though
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[11:21] <mikestir> isn't the CB thing a euro requirement?
[11:21] <mikestir> I think it's allowed in the CEPT regs but hadn't been written into uk law
[11:21] <mfa298> more power on SSB though (12W PEP) but 4W still for FM/AM
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> FOIA.
[11:22] <mfa298> it looks like AM/SSB has started being done on the EU channels.
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[11:22] <SpeedEvil> Make a freedom of information request for any internal documents relating to airborne use and communications the CAA has been having with OFCOM
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> - on both sides - request from both OFCOM and the CAA
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> whatdotheyknow.co.uk
[11:22] <mfa298> again, they've had the work done for them already so they've just take the EU findings and said yeah we'll make it legal
[11:22] <PE9PE-Rob> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/october2013/437_700_mhz_ham_radio_balloon_heading_for_uk.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AmateurRadioNews+%28Southgate+Amateur+Radio+News%29#.UlqCSVPCEuk
[11:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sounds good SpeedEvil
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> It's a simple form, and a letter to write explaining what you want, and they have to respond in 40 days
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> (Unless certain exceptions are met)
[11:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> It would be a good starting point
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[11:25] <mfa298> looks like CAA are relativly decent at answering FOI requests (at least based on the ones listed as Successful)
[11:27] <wd8mnv> seems that you could try to get an exemption for transmitters under 100 mW...
[11:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> If we want to move it forward we need a clear simple case for what and why, at the moment we haven't got anything that can be used.
[11:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Exactly Geoff-G8DHE
[11:33] <mfa298> I think we've got a few ideas of what people would like to experiment with (ATV, HF trackers, Fast telemetry)
[11:34] Action: craag is back
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> There not going to apply any resource (especially manpower) without a written formal request with the details stated and the reasons why the current situation stops that.
[11:34] <craag> Answer is: "Get an SRP"
[11:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> SRP?
[11:34] <craag> There's a paper process for it that'll actually reach the CAA
[11:34] <craag> Special Research Permit, ie not AR
[11:34] <fsphil> isn't that expensive?
[11:35] <craag> erm dunno tbh, I only got a 15 second convo.
[11:35] <fsphil> sounds frantic there :)
[11:35] <mfa298> I just found OFW306 - Application for an Amateur Radio
[11:35] <mfa298> Special Research Permit
[11:35] <craag> Ah ok
[11:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Might be OK for starters.
[11:35] <craag> Ah so it's NoV
[11:35] <craag> huh
[11:35] <craag> I misunderstoof
[11:36] <fsphil> ah
[11:36] <fsphil> makes more sense
[11:36] <fsphil> NoV's have been tried before
[11:36] <mfa298> this looks like it might be what I've seen before - and seems designed more for people experimenting with high power.
[11:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Test proposals under an SRP and then ask for it permanently
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[11:37] <mfa298> this might be the way to start - and if a few people can get them successfully it might make a case for a more standard /AM nov.
[11:38] <mfa298> These will be interesting to answer:
[11:38] <mfa298> Distance to nearest neighbours boundary
[11:38] <mfa298> Field strength at neighbours boundary
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[11:40] <mfa298> does have a nice line at the bottom: Reasons must be given for applications not supported.
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[11:42] <craag> Tried to re-catch him to get a contact, but he's gone to lunch
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[11:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> craag: Well done for trying, maybe you'll catch up with him later
[11:44] <mfa298> will be interesting to see if anything appears on the rsgb litmus test at any point
[11:44] <craag> the litmus test looks like a joke to me tbh
[11:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> The RSGB can't of failed to notice all the interest in HAB recently.
[11:45] <craag> yeah, although there was one guy arguing that all transmitters should be type-approved for aeronautical :/
[11:45] <craag> ie the NTX2
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[11:46] <mfa298> I'mpartly interested to see the views of other non-HAB hams.
[11:46] <craag> haha
[11:46] <craag> I can see why the RSGB didn't want it streamed..
[11:46] <craag> so much BR68/back-in-my-day nostalgia
[11:46] <mfa298> although of the bits I've read on the litmus test forum so far it mostly seems to be sensible people
[11:46] <X-Scale> Imagine all the world's helium reserves run out. Is there an alternative for high altitude ballons ? Hydrogen ?
[11:46] <craag> held everything back imo
[11:47] <nats`> someone here master 1bit delta sigma ADC and the process chain ?
[11:47] <craag> X-Scale: Yes, plenty of people do use hydrogen
[11:47] <nats`> I have question on that topic
[11:48] <X-Scale> craag: I'm glad to know that :)
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[11:53] <ibanezmatt13> I got my Arduino transmitting stuff :)
[11:54] <mfa298> well done!
[11:54] <nats`> next step doing it without arduino
[11:54] <nats`> :p
[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[11:55] <ibanezmatt13> well, I would hope it's the same for AVR
[11:55] <nats`> why the sad face
[11:55] <nats`> it's now fun begins
[11:55] <nats`> you drop all the arduino library and you learn how your avr is working
[11:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB leaving Denmark
[11:56] <ibanezmatt13> nats`, I've managed to do everything without the arduino library apart from radio and serial ports. All the parsing stuff has been managed without arduino
[11:56] <mfa298> I think the NTX2 code is very close to being AVR compatible - you might just need to change how the GPIO pin is toggled
[11:57] <nats`> ibanezmatt13 if I say that that's because arduino library are often crappy
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> So pinMode() and digitalWrite() are out the window :)
[11:57] <nats`> some play with interrupt other not etc....
[11:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> mfa298: Quick NTX question, do the RFGND1 and RFGND2 pins need to be tied?
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> For testing I didn't touch the three RF pins and it worked fine
[11:58] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: best to check the datasheet but I think they're tied together internally (and possibly also tied to the 0V pin)
[11:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13: I@m just putting a circuit together :-)
[11:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> I will mfa298 cheers
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[11:59] <mfa298> you might find using both of them gives a better RF design onthe PCB
[11:59] <ibanezmatt13> So yeah, I think it would be a good achievement to do everything without Arduino, but I wouldn't know where to start with getting the serial to work on the AVR
[12:00] <nats`> you have plenty of resource on that topic
[12:00] <nats`> :)
[12:00] <nats`> the tips is to start by sending and receiving dummy data
[12:00] <nats`> once this brick works you add you code
[12:00] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: I'd stick with arduino for now and then once you've got something that's working you can work on improving it
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> I think that's what I'd rather do, but it's definitely something I'll do at some point
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> You need an Arduino bootloader to run Arduino sketches on an AVR correct?
[12:02] <mfa298> I don't see why you'de need the bootloader to run the code.
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> So the AVR knows all the Arduino functions and stuff?
[12:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> mfa298: You're suspisions were correct; RF ground is internally connected to the module screen and pin 6 (0V). These pins should be directly connected to the RF return path - e.g. coax braid, main PCB ground plane etc.
[12:03] <jonsowman> mfa298: i don't think it'll work
[12:03] <jonsowman> i'm not sure the binary will be at the right place in mem
[12:03] <jonsowman> it needs the bootloader to sit at $0000 at point execution at the user code
[12:03] <jonsowman> i'm not certain though
[12:03] <mfa298> AFAIK the bootloader is just there to provide an easier method of uploading the main program (using serial rather than the ISP)
[12:04] <mfa298> I could be wrong on that. I've not used arduino
[12:04] <jonsowman> the bootloader sits at the reset vector, so is executed on power up, and usually just does nothing and execution moves to user code
[12:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13: Why get hung up on it now? Just use it for what it is and gain experience and go AVR Pure later
[12:05] <jonsowman> the binary will never be executed if there's no bootloader since it doesn't reside at the reset vector
[12:05] <ibanezmatt13> G0TDJ_Steve, exactly my plan
[12:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool
[12:05] <jonsowman> again, not sure - there might be some mechanism to get around this
[12:06] <jonsowman> but if you have an ICSP programmer you may as well just flash the arduino bootloader anyway ibanezmatt13
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I've got the AVRISP MKII
[12:06] <jonsowman> in fact you could experiment first if you like, just flash the binary and see if it executes
[12:06] <jonsowman> i'm betting on no
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> ok, cheers
[12:07] <jonsowman> if not, flash the bootloader and you'll be sorted
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[12:07] <mfa298> quick googling gives a couple of pages which might explain things better http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP http://www.arduino.cc/en/Hacking/Programmer
[12:08] <mfa298> but unless you need the extra flash memory there's not a problem with uploading the arduino bootloader
[12:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right - Lunch time - BBL
[12:10] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
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[12:13] <iain_G4SGX> Aww, looks like SP9UOB is descending.. :(
[12:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
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[12:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no recovery :-(
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[12:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> very slow decent
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[12:29] <iain_G4SGX> Hope is not lost, getting used to these pico floaters going up & down then upo again
[12:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes and landing and going up again :-)
[12:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom what does flags 28b and 29b mean?´
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[12:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Its a pretty tx SP9UOB got on, still hearing it at -0.3deg elev
[12:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> packets going red now, bye bye SP9UOB
[12:57] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is back :-)
[12:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom your going down Tom :-(
[12:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: 28b = solar power, airborne mode, 3D fix, GPS OK
[12:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: 29b = solar power, airborne mode, gps power save, 3D fix, GPS OK
[12:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok its on 21b now
[12:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> also seen 1b
[13:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> 0x0200 - solar power
[13:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/the_end.jpg
[13:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
[13:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lol yes
[13:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no chance to recover
[13:03] <X-Scale> http://youtu.be/9ZDkItO-0a4
[13:03] <fsphil> aww, coming down
[13:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: i forgot to put life saving vest on ;-)
[13:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> :-)
[13:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> still S7 at 5agj
[13:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway - envelope is not empty, so it should float :-)
[13:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: as You can see problems with i2c/ublox dissapeared when it is in pedestran mode
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[13:09] <daveake> interesting
[13:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> really strange. I must buy USRP and make GPS simulator :-)
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[13:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom still see it, but no decodes
[13:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i mean OZ5AGJ does
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[13:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> total signal loss at 1319cet from OZ5AGJ
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[13:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: its floating in North Sea Now ;-)
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[13:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
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[13:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> Brian: thanks a lot for tracking !
[13:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> your welcome Tom, i relay your regards to 5agj and 9aeh
[13:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: it would be nice, thank You OZ guys :-)
[13:23] <PA1SDB> SP9UOB-Tom Thank YOU to !
[13:24] <Willdude123> Upu we both suck at BF4 :)
[13:24] <Upu> speak for yourself :)
[13:25] <fsphil> haha
[13:25] <Willdude123> What rank are you in BF3?
[13:26] <Upu> no idea 50+
[13:26] Action: fsphil is ninja .. I have no rank
[13:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: i2c/uplox problems has gone after switching module in to land navigation mode (it was happen below 2500m)
[13:27] <Upu> interesting
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's starting to take shape :) https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB_3/blob/master/NORB3.ino
[13:27] <Upu> shame it looked like it was going to make it for a while
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[13:27] <Upu> you're not getting that one back :)
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[13:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> also the problem was seen for the first time above 2500m
[13:28] <Upu> odd issue
[13:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: why ;-) It is floating now ;-)
[13:28] <fsphil> it's me I think. any pico that has a chance of coming in range of me will descend
[13:28] <Upu> yeess... not the right type
[13:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: envelope is 100% not empty
[13:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: lol
[13:28] <Upu> afk a few
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[13:46] <Willdude123> I'm having trouble finding 5 pin 0.1mm headers
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[13:47] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
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[13:57] <eroomde> one of those interesting whole subfields you normally don't have to go into but is actually quite interesting: seals
[13:57] <eroomde> the art of forming pressure-tight seals with moving parts
[13:57] <eroomde> there are thousands of geometries and materials for different applications
[13:58] <eroomde> there must be millions of little areas for which there's actually a lot of science
[13:59] <Willdude123> Right. RE homework.We are supposed to be thinking about protest methods for our chosen cause. I chose LGBT rights and homophobia. I need to subtly take the piss about the catholic church here.
[13:59] <eroomde> you don't need to
[14:00] <eroomde> only worth doing if you can do it subtly and with style
[14:00] <eroomde> i thought i had some of those when i was 13
[14:00] <eroomde> i didn't
[14:00] <eroomde> i found a homage to peter cook I wrote when i was 15, recently
[14:00] <eroomde> it was f*cking awful
[14:00] <eroomde> really embarassing
[14:00] <eroomde> full of what i imagined at the time would be subtle satire
[14:01] <eroomde> don;t let that put you off Willdude123
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[14:01] <eroomde> it's a phase you need to get through
[14:01] <Willdude123> Mhm.
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[14:02] <Willdude123> Or I could just not take the piss and do it seriously.
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[14:02] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13_: [norb3.cpp:265]: (error) Buffer access out-of-bounds
[14:02] <bertrik> checksum_str is too small
[14:03] <bertrik> you need to account for the \0 too
[14:03] <bertrik> the string terminator 0-character
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[14:04] <ibanezmatt13_> bertrik, not sure what you mean
[14:04] <Willdude123> I think that we should capaign for sexuality to be covered under something similar to incitement to ethnic or racial hatred.
[14:04] <eroomde> is it not already?
[14:04] <ibanezmatt13_> oh I see bertrik, o
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13_> bertrik: https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB_3/blob/master/NORB3.ino better? I've made the size one bigger
[14:06] <Willdude123> eroomde, I think it's only for hate crimes.
[14:06] <Willdude123> Otherwise we wouldn't have so many bigots in this country.
[14:07] <Willdude123> I think a lot of the problem is in schools.
[14:07] <eroomde> put this all down in your homework
[14:07] <eroomde> did you see the thing will young mentioned this week?
[14:07] <Willdude123> No.
[14:08] <eroomde> about the use of the term 'gay' as a pejorative in school playgrounds
[14:08] <eroomde> google it
[14:08] <eroomde> make your thesis about how 'homophobia starts at school'
[14:08] <eroomde> or something
[14:08] <Willdude123> I saw a remarkable interview with stephen fry about it though.
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[14:09] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13_: yes, better now :) I used "cppcheck" to find that
[14:09] <Willdude123> How homosexuality occurs in over 1500 species and homophobia occurs in one.
[14:09] <ibanezmatt13_> bertrik, thank you very much
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[14:10] <Willdude123> I don't want to appear too passionate about the matter though. Because then people will start guessing that I'm not heterosexual, which is sorta true.
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[14:12] <eroomde> learning to write arguments in a rigorous and dispassionate way is something you need to learn anyway
[14:12] <eroomde> so this is good practice
[14:12] <adamgreig> talking of rigorous and dispassionate writing, you might enjoy http://www.oftenpaper.net/sierpinski.htm eroomde
[14:13] <adamgreig> From what I can tell, one of the settings used to deal with division by 0 is the so-called Riemann sphere, which is where we take a space shuttle and use it to fly over and drop a cow on top of a biodome, and then have the cow indiscriminately fire laser beams at the grass inside and around the biodome. That's my intuitive understanding of it anyway.
[14:13] <Willdude123> Except I have to go up and talk about it to everyone.
[14:13] <adamgreig> Willdude123: see also, dispassionate and rigorous presentations
[14:14] <adamgreig> but yes
[14:14] <Willdude123> And it might be awkward.#
[14:14] <adamgreig> no matter how dispassionate, the mere fact you're even mentioning this will no doubt haunt the rest of your school years
[14:14] <adamgreig> such is often the way on the playground
[14:15] <bertrik> I think the best thing I learned in the past 10 years or so, is to be a little *less* rigorous and just project a bit more confidence instead :)
[14:15] <Willdude123> Meh. I'm nervous though.
[14:15] <adamgreig> indeed, I try to aim for personable, confident and straightforward in my presentations
[14:15] <Willdude123> It could go horribly wrong.
[14:15] <adamgreig> Willdude123: well you could also just do a really boring run of the mill presentation and thus not incur any other student's wrath
[14:16] <eroomde> preparation is the best defence against presentations going horribly wrong
[14:16] <adamgreig> not so much against other people's reactions though
[14:16] <Willdude123> That said, I've only told two people in my school and I trust them so it shouldn't be a problem.
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[14:18] <eroomde> i've switched back to a sitting desk
[14:18] <Willdude123> Could be a phase though. Ooh I could mention that, how at our age a lot of people are confused.
[14:18] <eroomde> and after 3 days of solid sitting, my hamstrings are in a state
[14:18] <eroomde> dull pain the whole time
[14:18] <eroomde> sucks
[14:18] <adamgreig> why'd you swap back?
[14:19] <eroomde> i had to just read about 4 pdfs for about 3 hours
[14:19] <jonsowman> you could maybe stand up once in a while
[14:19] <eroomde> to really try and grok something
[14:19] <eroomde> and i just couldn't do it standing up
[14:19] <adamgreig> yea
[14:19] <eroomde> standing works when i'm sort of 'doing'
[14:19] <adamgreig> I found reading long form stuff while standing really hard
[14:19] <adamgreig> yup
[14:19] <eroomde> yeah
[14:19] <eroomde> i would really like an adjustable desk
[14:19] <eroomde> rather than bricks
[14:19] <adamgreig> when I had a standing desk I mostly used my laptop/kindle to read stuff while sitting down
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[14:20] <adamgreig> but now I have my aeron chair up in cambridge and it lets me recline wonderfully so I'm less upset
[14:20] <eroomde> this is a hell of an article
[14:20] <eroomde> you have an aaron?
[14:20] <eroomde> nice
[14:20] <Willdude123> Hmm. I think attending Westboro Baptist Church services is a good idea.
[14:20] <eroomde> so are you sat at an aaron by default now?
[14:20] <eroomde> Willdude123: no
[14:20] <Willdude123> And turning up with rainbow flags.
[14:20] <adamgreig> got it years ago as a birthday present for £100 off a wholesaler who got it from a bankrupt company's firesale
[14:21] <adamgreig> seemed like the dodgiest guy
[14:21] <eroomde> i do occasionally check craiglist
[14:21] <adamgreig> but when two years later the seat pan started to get a crack
[14:21] <adamgreig> he replaced it for free inc shipping
[14:21] <Willdude123> I suppose they'd kick you out and we want to portray the movement as a peaceful one.
[14:21] <adamgreig> and yes but only at home - in CUED I'm on a shit office chair
[14:21] <eroomde> might be worth swapping
[14:21] <eroomde> after all, i guess 80% of you sitting now will be in the office
[14:21] <eroomde> your*
[14:21] <adamgreig> yea. am considering
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[14:22] <adamgreig> not sure how much I want to try and get this chair to CUED and buy a new one for home
[14:22] <adamgreig> but it wouldn't be that hard
[14:22] <maya_> where can i get a radiosonde?
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[14:22] <jonsowman> take a run up across lamma's land and then just freewheel down fen causeway
[14:22] <jonsowman> np
[14:22] <adamgreig> Willdude123: you maybe have to work out how involved you want to get in this sort of activism and how much you want to keep quiet during school years
[14:22] <adamgreig> jonsowman: hahaha
[14:22] <adamgreig> yes
[14:22] <adamgreig> maybe attach it to my bike
[14:23] <adamgreig> so I can sit in it and pedal
[14:23] <jonsowman> :D
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[14:23] <eroomde> i have always though there is a bike middle ground
[14:24] <eroomde> in between tilted forward and reclinder
[14:24] <eroomde> with a really comfy chair
[14:24] <eroomde> and the pedal slightly in front of you
[14:24] <eroomde> and maybe big tricks handles
[14:24] <eroomde> a sort of chopper riding position
[14:24] <eroomde> with an aaron as the saddle
[14:24] <Willdude123> adamgreig, yeah. It's just theory really, and we're learning about conflict.
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[14:25] <Willdude123> adamgreig, I want to sort of present it as something we feel sort of strongly about, not due to our own orientations but due to our good nature :)
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[14:27] <adamgreig> that would be nice
[14:27] <Willdude123> Ooh, I have a good idea. A role play. We have a guy who walks past a fellow student and says "you're such a n*****" and then the teacher gets mad. Then we have a guy who walks past and says you're so gay and the teacher does nothing
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[14:38] <Willdude123> Or is that a bit inappropriate?
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[14:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> another one going out to sea http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FVU2MYH&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[14:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
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[14:55] <eroomde> adamgreig: do you get a pc for your PhD?
[14:56] <adamgreig> yes
[14:56] <adamgreig> it is a bit chunky
[14:56] <eroomde> new?
[14:56] <adamgreig> i7 4770 (3.4GHz, 4 cores with HT), 16GB RAM, 180GB SSD, 1TB HDD
[14:56] <adamgreig> 24" LED LCD
[14:56] <adamgreig> yea brand new
[14:56] <eroomde> nice
[14:56] <adamgreig> and stole a second screen from the sigproc seminar room which is full of them
[14:56] <adamgreig> no GPU mind
[14:56] <adamgreig> will have to try for one later
[14:57] <eroomde> or get an AWS budget :)
[14:57] <adamgreig> though oddly only rjw seems to have done gpu programming before. two of the current phd students are thinking about trying it
[14:57] <eroomde> i'm hurting right now that i can't really do CAD on my laptop
[14:57] <adamgreig> apparently godsill's group is getting a dual gpu server
[14:57] <adamgreig> so maybe just get access to that
[14:57] <adamgreig> yea. now and again the mba's lack of cpu bugs me and I guess it's similar for the thinkpad
[14:57] <adamgreig> but like
[14:58] <eroomde> although i swore i wouldn't ever spend more than £200 on whatever is the best second hand thinkpad for £200, ever again, that is really only true for coding and embedded stuff (for which it's great)
[14:58] <adamgreig> most of the time that's fine and anyway I like a real keyboard and mouse and big screens for cad
[14:58] <eroomde> and i'm thinking next laptop purchase might be back to a beastie thing
[14:58] <eroomde> the mbp is superb on the face of it, for what i want
[14:58] <eroomde> GPU, big flash drive, 16GB ram, and can drive both of the 24" external displays
[14:59] <eroomde> swell as be quickly moved over to the firing bay
[14:59] <adamgreig> yea the new mbps are super nice
[14:59] <adamgreig> definitely a tempting proposition
[14:59] <eroomde> at the moment i have about 3 machines to serve my various pc needs
[14:59] <eroomde> which is workable but a bit unsatisfying
[15:00] <eroomde> e.g. right now i'm at a pub in chiswick
[15:00] <eroomde> and would really love to do some stuff in solidworks
[15:00] <adamgreig> often I find there are other things to do when in pubs
[15:00] <eroomde> but the combination of weedy graphics and not enough SSD for a win64 VM basically kills it
[15:00] <eroomde> i'm working on stuff
[15:00] <eroomde> was at an exhibition, seeing friends later
[15:00] <adamgreig> ah fe
[15:01] <eroomde> got about 2 hrs to kill now
[15:01] <eroomde> and trying not to drink
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[15:08] <Willdude123> I have an idea. We get people to pledge if people stop using the term "gay" in schools, they stop masturbating for a month.
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[15:08] <adamgreig> can't see that catching on somehow
[15:09] <Willdude123> I'd pledge to it, it'd be difficult but I could do it.
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[15:14] <S_Mark> Hello, who should I talk to about setting up an hourly predictor on habhub?
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[15:15] <eroomde> danielr* probably. though if you announce it on #habhub the pool of relevant people likely to see it will be higher
[15:15] <adamgreig> S_Mark: I can probably do that
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[15:16] <S_Mark> cool thanks!
[15:16] <adamgreig> need to know alt, lat, lng, a name, contact email, contact name, and some weak password
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[15:16] <adamgreig> nothing you use anywhere else
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[15:17] <adamgreig> if you give me an ascent and burst and descent I can set that, but you'll be able to change it yourself
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[15:18] <BenLTechSat> I'm part of a university team that's working on a cubesat type project. we would like to launch our device with a weather balloon. currently we're looking for some low cost (under ~$50) transceivers that would work. any ideas?
[15:18] <BenLTechSat> We're new to RF. I was able to find this, but it's pretty pricy and asking for the money to purchase it might not go over well http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=86 The next best thing seems to be http://dx.com/p/power-4432-t2000-stm8l101-si4432b1-high-speed-transmission-module-yellow-164848 , but we're looking for something that can transmit and receive up to 80k feet.
[15:19] <BenLTechSat> We just want to stream GPS NMEA data to a base station...
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> hi BenLTechSat
[15:19] <BenLTechSat> hey
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[15:19] <chrisstubbs> are you in the UK?
[15:19] <BenLTechSat> no, Texas
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[15:20] <mfa298> BenLTechSat: you'll need to check what's legal to use radio wise there.
[15:21] <eroomde> BenLTechSat: a lot of the guys in the US doing this use amateur radio technology
[15:21] <mfa298> I have a feeling 430 MHz isn't a license free frequency over there.
[15:21] <eroomde> so for example, an off-the-shelf transceiver using something like AX.25 for data (a protocol used in the popular APRS network) and the same for uplinks
[15:22] <eroomde> a lot of the off-the-shelf things you'll find like XBee and ZigBee won't be up to it
[15:22] <BenLTechSat> ya, we were using a 433 MHz, one of the ISM bands, we have HAM licenses, so with the frequency we're good to go. But we have to follow some amateur transmission rules that we have to shut off our device if it's sending offending/interfering signals... so we need a transceiver
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[15:22] <eroomde> if you only want to uplink a few basic commands, look at DTMF
[15:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also need to make sure the GPS module can work in a mode to produce data at those heights due to the restrictions
[15:22] <mfa298> if you've got a HAM license then you might want to look at APRS
[15:22] <eroomde> same kind of thing as used to remotely control repeaters and so on
[15:23] <BenLTechSat> i think we can use 160mhz, 433 MHz, 900MHz, 2.4GHz, and maybe some others
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[15:23] <BenLTechSat> the gps, is an ADAfruit http://www.adafruit.com/products/746
[15:23] <BenLTechSat> and they said they tested it with high altitude balloon
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[15:24] <qyx_> hm, is 433 free in usa?
[15:24] <BenLTechSat> ya
[15:24] <mfa298> hmmm, I thought someone had said 433 wasn't ISM in the US, although if you're flying with a HAM license there's an amateur band there
[15:25] <BenLTechSat> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10534
[15:25] <BenLTechSat> I'm just having trouble finding a transceiver that will work up to 80km
[15:25] <mfa298> with that adafruit gps you might want to find out what >25km means (it might only be 28km max and people regularly go over 30km)
[15:26] <eroomde> perhaps look at a dul-freq handheld
[15:26] <tweetBot> @stratodean: We now have a new hosted hourly landing predictor, which we'll be using nearer launch time! http://t.co/8YtXHVXNx9 #ukhas #windy
[15:26] <eroomde> downlink on 70cm, uplink on 2m, say
[15:26] <BenLTechSat> we need to be using embedded though, due to weight restrictions...
[15:26] <eroomde> they are often 5W down which is plenty, and uplink whatever you like with your ground kit
[15:26] <eroomde> ah
[15:27] <eroomde> well, i doubt you'll find much off-the-shelf
[15:27] <BenLTechSat> I've found the radiometrix shx1, uhx1 and qpx1 transceivers but they are over $100 each
[15:27] <eroomde> you could have a separate downlink and uplink
[15:28] <eroomde> just get a simple narrowband fm receiver for the uplink
[15:28] <eroomde> e.g. from radiometrix
[15:28] <mfa298> various people here have used the NTX2 for downlink only which you can get fairly cheaply
[15:28] <eroomde> and send dtmf up to it, and have a dtmf decoder on the payload
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[15:28] <BenLTechSat> k, we might have to look into that. We're planning on sending UART.
[15:29] <BenLTechSat> GPS >UART> microcontroller >UART> Transceiver > ground
[15:30] <mfa298> althoguh wikipedia suggests that 433MHz is ISM in Region 1 only (which is EU)
[15:30] <eroomde> though I know what you mean by that, you don't really 'send' uart
[15:30] <BenLTechSat> ya
[15:30] <mfa298> so you might need to run it under a ham license so it will need to send a suitable call sign
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[15:30] <eroomde> the radio will have its own scheme, if it's all fancy and has a digital data interface (forget about that if you find >$100 too much) then you can probably talk to it with uart
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[15:31] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[15:31] <eroomde> otherwise you might actually have to be a bit more careful about exactly what you send
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[15:33] <BenLTechSat> we're trying to use something like this http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=86
[15:33] <BenLTechSat> but that's a little bit too expensive and the range is only 7-10km
[15:33] <BenLTechSat> BUT
[15:34] <BenLTechSat> that's 7-10km at earth's surface... would that be a greater range if it were ground to balloon?
[15:34] <eroomde> not really
[15:34] <mfa298> range will depend on what's in the way and the data rate
[15:34] <eroomde> i suspect it's assuming line-of-sight
[15:34] <eroomde> people have found even the 1W zigbee modems struggle
[15:34] <eroomde> they are just not optimised for that kind of link
[15:34] <eroomde> also
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[15:35] <eroomde> just forget it, if you want something like that (nice rs232 interface) that'll work at tab ranges, and $85 is kinda expensive, forget it
[15:35] <eroomde> you won't find anything
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[15:35] <eroomde> you're living in fantasy land
[15:35] <BenLTechSat> lol, i
[15:35] <BenLTechSat> k
[15:35] <eroomde> $85 is small change for this kind of thing
[15:35] <eroomde> HOWEVER
[15:35] <eroomde> we have science on our side
[15:36] <qyx_> lol
[15:36] <eroomde> and so the usual tradeoff between saving time vs saving money, you probably can do it if you build it yourself
[15:36] <eroomde> what kind of data rate down do you need?
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[15:39] <BenLTechSat1> well, the data is going to be pretty low
[15:39] <BenLTechSat1> like, 1200 baud would work
[15:40] <wannabe_ballonis> Hello, just checking in. I'm kind of new to this so I'll just hang around and listen :-)
[15:40] <qyx_> 1200 baud is actually pretty fast
[15:40] <BenLTechSat1> oh
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[15:40] <adamgreig> what do you actually need?
[15:40] <eroomde> BenLTechSat: i would seriously look at packet radio for the downlink then
[15:40] <BenLTechSat1> well, we're just sending gps data
[15:40] <adamgreig> like we typically do 50 baud for just gps data and that works fine
[15:40] <qyx_> people here are sending gps data at 50 baud
[15:41] <adamgreig> you get a position maybe every ten or fifteen seconds depending on how much other sensor data you're sending
[15:41] <adamgreig> maybe that's ok
[15:41] <BenLTechSat1> ya, 50 baud would work
[15:41] <BenLTechSat1> we don't have a "need" we have a "what we can afford"
[15:41] <adamgreig> there do exist license exempt bands in the US as I understand it, so you could probably just tx-only on them
[15:41] <BenLTechSat1> we all have HAM licenses
[15:41] <eroomde> well, you could use our way of doing things fro downlink
[15:41] <eroomde> based on an ntx2
[15:41] <adamgreig> you might even find your amateur radio regulations would allow for tx only on the ham bands considering that the flight shouldn't last for more than a couple of hours after all
[15:42] <eroomde> adamgreig: ham is fine in the US
[15:42] <eroomde> no need for ifs and buts
[15:42] <eroomde> people blast away with 10W all day long
[15:42] <BenLTechSat1> looking at ntx2...
[15:42] <adamgreig> must be nice
[15:42] <eroomde> on HABs, i mean
[15:42] <eroomde> BenLTechSat1: what kind of thing would you want to uplink?
[15:45] <BenLTechSat1> ok, here's the deal. we're working on a Cubesat/tubesat prototype. If we can fly a high altitude transmitter then that makes our pitch to get funding to build a Sat more realistic. So we have to be able to send a "turn on signal" to the device. The device will only transmit for 20 minutes when it receives this signal. this way, we dont get in trouble for offending transmissions/interference
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[15:46] <eroomde> ok, that should be comparatively easy
[15:46] <BenLTechSat1> yes
[15:46] <BenLTechSat1> we were just going to do, balloon transmit, and base station receive ... but we have to have 2 way comm now...
[15:46] <mfa298> you might want to send position data all the time from your hab so you know where it is (means you can use a directional antenna to send data to it as well)
[15:47] <BenLTechSat1> so, either a transceiver or dual receiver/transmitters.
[15:47] <mfa298> but you could have it send a different status depending on what it's heard
[15:47] <enkidu> most funny will be upward radiating antenna
[15:48] <eroomde> well, i would still commend an FM receiver and DTMF as a simple and moderately robust way to uplink a few basic commands
[15:48] <eroomde> see if you can find a suitable receiver from radiomatix
[15:48] <eroomde> you'll probably need a ham radio rig for the uplinking
[15:48] <eroomde> you'll want a few watts
[15:49] <BenLTechSat1> ntx2 comes out to $25 US, so 2x of them is 50$
[15:49] <BenLTechSat1> Awesome, i was wondering about wattage...
[15:49] <eroomde> you only need 1
[15:49] <mfa298> if you want to continuously send data on the downlink then running the uplink on another band might be sensible
[15:49] <Upu> BenLTechSat1 NTX2 you need a license to use in the States
[15:49] <BenLTechSat1> we all have HAM licenses
[15:49] <Upu> cool
[15:50] <BenLTechSat1> but we need one for the base station right?
[15:50] <eroomde> BenLTechSat1: no
[15:50] <Upu> and don't get them from Lemos I've been given the go ahead to sell into the States for low volumes now
[15:50] <eroomde> read the thing i just wrote
[15:50] <BenLTechSat1> oh, ya
[15:50] <BenLTechSat1> different freq
[15:51] <eroomde> my emphasis was not on different freq but more power
[15:51] <eroomde> though yes, i would aim to uplink on 2m or something
[15:51] <BenLTechSat1> NTX2 only says "Usable range over 500m"
[15:51] <mfa298> in other words: use a decent ham transceiver on the ground
[15:51] <Upu> Yes BenLTechSat1 for its intended use
[15:51] <eroomde> BenLTechSat1: ignore that and trust us
[15:51] <BenLTechSat1> k, ya
[15:52] <Upu> however dangle it from 40km high and its more like 750km
[15:52] <eroomde> 50 baud and line of sight make a big difference to your link budget
[15:52] <BenLTechSat1> YES, that's what I was wondering
[15:52] <mfa298> BenLTechSat1: NTX2 is what a lot of the UK use on HABs - it's good at a long distance with a good reciever and low baud rate
[15:52] <mfa298> BenLTechSat1: take a look at http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 for how people in the UK do it.
[15:53] <BenLTechSat1> so, then why won't a transceiver like this work? http://dx.com/p/utc-4432-long-distance-wireless-transceiver-module-w-antenna-155974
[15:53] <BenLTechSat1> that's 2000m
[15:53] <Upu> yeah but it will drift
[15:53] <Upu> don't get hung up on the 10mW and distance
[15:53] <BenLTechSat1> drift?
[15:53] <Upu> onces its in the air you'll get it from miles away
[15:53] <eroomde> BenLTechSat1: can you sat that to 50 baud?
[15:54] <BenLTechSat1> oh...
[15:54] <Upu> yeah on radios that don't have a temperature compensated crystal the frequency will drift with temperature
[15:54] <mfa298> the key for distance is low baud rate and a good receiver
[15:54] <Upu> the NTX2B has a TCXO in it
[15:54] <eroomde> this ^
[15:54] <eroomde> drift doesn't matter too much
[15:54] <eroomde> we coped with it for years
[15:54] <Upu> limited drift
[15:54] <Upu> the drift on those chinese radios can be catastrophic at times
[15:54] <mfa298> most of those modules are designed to work with cheap receiver modules which are very deaf compared to a ham transceiver
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[15:56] <Upu> have a chat with some other American groups who have used 70cms
[15:56] Action: Upu points at arko, wb8elk, KT5TK
[15:57] <BenLTechSat1> k
[15:58] <eroomde> but the takeaway from this chat would be:
[15:58] <eroomde> ntx2 on the payload Txing down
[15:58] <eroomde> decent amateur radio rig to receiver
[15:58] <eroomde> a simple narrowband fm receiver (ideally 2m?) on the payload
[15:58] <BenLTechSat1> so, then the cheapest thing would just be a uhx1 ?
[15:58] <BenLTechSat1> by radiometrix?
[15:58] <eroomde> an amateur rig transmitting up to iy
[15:59] <eroomde> you want uplink and downlink to be different
[15:59] <mfa298> descent amateur rig needs to do ssb on 70cm (for receiving the rtty)
[15:59] <eroomde> like, substantially different
[15:59] <eroomde> also 169MHz might not be allowed in the US
[15:59] <BenLTechSat1> oh... ya
[16:00] <Upu> BiMH1 is availble
[16:00] <Upu> you could use a euro 144.800 one
[16:00] <BenLTechSat1> so then, a transceiver wouldn't work at all right, unless it has very different bands?
[16:00] <Upu> thats a transciever they use them for APRS
[16:00] <mfa298> uplink and downlink could be on the same frequency *if* you're not transmitting from the payload when you uplink.
[16:00] <BenLTechSat1> looking at BiMH1....
[16:00] <eroomde> yes
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[16:01] <mfa298> but I'd go for uplink on a different band so you can do continuous downlink of data
[16:02] <BenLTechSat1> a google search for BiMH1 didn't bring any results....
[16:02] <BenLTechSat1> OH
[16:02] <BenLTechSat1> well, the only time we need uplink, the device will be off
[16:02] <BenLTechSat1> so states will be:...
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[16:03] <BenLTechSat1> hab is off, not transmitting, it receives signal from ground, transmits for 20 minutes, then shuts off and waits for transmit signal again
[16:03] <mfa298> assuming you want to get the payload back I'd transmit position all the time
[16:04] <mfa298> otherwise you have no idea where it is (apart from predictions which could be way off)
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[16:11] <BenLTechSat1> ya, we realize that we might not recover the device
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[16:12] <BenLTechSat1> by the time we're done with this, we would like to have a schematic with a gps chip, some power stuff, etc and transmitter and throw all that onto a PCB that anyone can use. So that's why we cant use handheld radios and stuff like that because it doesn't fit with our final goal to produce a board
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[16:12] <BenLTechSat1> i guess... we're essentially trying to design a radiosounde
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[16:17] <mfa298> have a look through the ukhas.org.uk wiki as there's a lot of good information on there (at least about downlinking data)
[16:17] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
[16:18] <mfa298> a lot of people have used that information to design there own pcb's with radio, gps and microcontroller
[16:18] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
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[16:20] <BenLTechSat1> awesome, thx
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[16:50] <Willdude123> Argh the dilemma of what to get for christmas. Graphics card or antenna?
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, ntx2b's would make awesome stocking fillers
[16:51] <eroomde> antenna
[16:51] <Willdude123> What's so different about them?
[16:51] <eroomde> unless you're using the graphics card for cad/photoshop/GPGPU
[16:51] <eroomde> get whichever lets you make stuff
[16:52] <Willdude123> Neither :)
[16:53] <Willdude123> I guess an antenna would be more productive.
[16:53] <Willdude123> But a GPU would just make me play BF4 more
[16:53] <Upu> get an antenna
[16:53] <Upu> at least you could take part then
[16:53] <mfa298> get an antenna, it won't go out of date as quickly
[16:54] <Willdude123> Hmm. There's the issue of where to mount it.
[16:54] <Willdude123> I would ideally like to put it on my granddad's house.
[16:54] <Upu> the roof
[16:54] <Upu> next question ?
[16:54] <Willdude123> It's higher than mine.
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[16:55] <Willdude123> And my dad doesn't want a 5 meter pole outside out house.
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[16:56] <Willdude123> Then there's W-2000 vs W-50
[16:57] <eroomde> W-50
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[16:58] <mfa298> I'd probably go W-50 as well
[16:59] <fsphil> 2000 requires a beard
[16:59] <mfa298> having 6m on a vertical is unlikely to give you anything interesting
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[17:00] <Willdude123> Yeah W-50 it is.
[17:00] <mfa298> unless someone starts flying ~50Mhz payloads
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[17:00] <mfa298> hmmm, I think there's an ISM band at 46MHz ...
[17:00] <Willdude123> The problem with putting one up next door is that I can't get WiFi there
[17:01] <mfa298> get a mast
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[17:01] <Willdude123> Obviously.
[17:01] <mfa298> although if it's put up on a house properly most people wont notice it
[17:01] <Willdude123> Which one? http://www.clickmetal.co.uk/Angle-Types/Round-Tubes/Aluminium-Round-Tube/p-16-13-23/
[17:02] <Willdude123> I wouldn't be able to get up on our roof.
[17:02] <Willdude123> It'd be a better idea to stick one up next door, as we could easily get a ladder up on the garage roof.
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[17:04] <M6PFX-Paul> i wasted money getting a v2000, as the radio i have puts the 6m band on the HF antenna socket
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[17:08] <mfa298> I've got a tri band vertical and when I've used it I don't think I've ever heard anything on 6m. You really need a horizontal antenna for 6m I think
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[17:09] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/application_note/DM00089670.pdf
[17:09] Action: Laurenceb_ is lolling at the VNC support
[17:09] <mfa298> Willdude123: buying tube like that is probably the wrong way to go about it.
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> have to try this on F429-discovery
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[17:10] <mfa298> Ideally you want to get the antenna up at roof height so you would need a long peice of tube (which you won't then be able to store easily)
[17:11] <Willdude123> How should I buy it then?
[17:13] <mfa298> if you want to get to roof height you probably want at least 5m of mast
[17:13] <Willdude123> Mhm. So 5m above the roof?
[17:13] <mfa298> at least 5m above ground
[17:14] <mfa298> probably more like 6 or 7 just to get to roof height
[17:14] <fsphil> anything above the roof line will be better than the ground
[17:14] <fsphil> or indoors
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[17:15] <mfa298> you can either get telescopic masts - but they can get expensive or ones that slot together
[17:15] <Willdude123> Well, my dad said roof mounting was the only option.
[17:15] <Willdude123> eroomde, you mentioned GPGPU earlier? Is that something worth looking into? Sounds cool
[17:16] <eroomde> it is but i'd wait until you need it
[17:16] <mfa298> although the ones I've used that sloted together was a bit wobbly
[17:16] <eroomde> a lot of these things are best learned when you have a need
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[17:17] <adamgreig> of course, when you do have a need you will wish you already knew it and didn't have to learn it
[17:17] <adamgreig> because now you have three days to learn it _and_ to solve your need
[17:17] <Willdude123> I tried multi-threading in python before I realised it's above my pay grade.
[17:18] <mfa298> I suspect you'll need a reasonable idea of parallel programming to make good use of the gpgpu
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[17:22] <WillTablet> Sorry, accidentally made windows update restart my pc
[17:22] <WillTablet> Did anyone say anything?
[17:23] <adamgreig> nope
[17:24] <WillTablet> So what's so exciting about ntx2b?
[17:24] <mfa298> tcxo
[17:24] <fsphil> frequency choice
[17:26] <WillTablet> Not worth changing I don't think
[17:27] <WillTablet> I need some smd experience
[17:27] <WillTablet> I'm board waiting for my boards to arrive ( pun intended)
[17:29] <WillTablet> Oh and BTW what was the result of that consultation about airborne stuff?
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[17:29] <mfa298> CAA are in opposition to it but we knew that already
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[17:30] <mfa298> it's not something thats going to change anytime quikly - but again we knew that as well
[17:30] <mfa298> in other words it's a long process and it's only just starting
[17:31] <WillTablet> Why though? Are ofcom saying no also? Is it because they think it'll make a plane crash?
[17:32] <mfa298> its the CAA not ofcom
[17:32] <mfa298> I suspect it's because it's easier to say no rather than do some work to decide if it would be ok
[17:32] <WillTablet> Surely it's got something to do with ofcom, they're the ones who give out the licenses
[17:33] <fsphil> you'd think that
[17:33] <mfa298> (if you had the choice of doing 20 days of solid homework or saying no to the teacher which would you do?)
[17:33] <mfa298> ofcom have to consult with the CAA apparently (which makes some sense if you think about it)
[17:34] <WillTablet> I would pick doing the homework
[17:34] <WillTablet> Because I'd get a Saturday Detention otherwise
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[17:35] <mfa298> I said it was your choice (i.e. not consequences to saying no)
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[18:16] <henryplumb> planning my first hab flight, anybody recommend a good ground unit for 433/434MHz?
[18:16] <f5vnf_> the yl just asked if b20 was up yet hehe
[18:17] <x-f> young lady?
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[18:17] <mfa298> henryplumb: depends on how much you want to spend
[18:18] <f5vnf_> look you call her wat you like but i know which side my breads buttered
[18:18] <f5vnf_> * want
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[18:18] <mfa298> there's a reasonable list of things people have used on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[18:19] <henryplumb> Cheers for that link
[18:20] <keydash> I'm now receiving fron an ntx2 with and sdr receiver
[18:21] <keydash> in my earlier test
[18:21] <mfa298> if you wanted something cheap to test with and try to track other flights with (if you're in a suitable location) the cheap rtl-sdr options will do.
[18:21] <mfa298> you might want something a bit more sensitive for your own flight.
[18:22] <keydash> by now is working well but im concerned i will nedd a good antenna
[18:23] <henryplumb> mfa298: Cheers for that, what about handheld VHF/UHF receivers that can receive 433/434MHz?
[18:24] <henryplumb> Like the Baofeng UK-5R ?
[18:24] <mfa298> AOR8000, MVT-7100, TH-F7E are all handheld
[18:24] <chrisstubbs> the baofeng does not support SSB
[18:24] <henryplumb> Oh
[18:25] <mfa298> for the method people use in the UK you need something that can receive SSB which very few handhelds do
[18:25] <chrisstubbs> well my UV-5R does not
[18:25] <PE0SAT> Take a look at SDR receivers
[18:25] <henryplumb> I'm in the UK, east anglia to be precise
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[18:25] <henryplumb> Going to be transmitting 434 MHz from a NTX2B
[18:26] <mfa298> there's a few people in east anglia (not me though)
[18:26] <chrisstubbs> Im in chelmsford
[18:26] <henryplumb> Local then! :)
[18:26] <henryplumb> I'm between Colchester and Sudbury
[18:27] <mfa298> for something handheld the three I listed above are options and I think there's also a yaesu that's handheld and does ssb
[18:27] <henryplumb> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yupiteru-MVT-7100-1000-Channel-Receiver-complete-kit-/251357214191?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item3a860eb5ef
[18:27] <cm13g09> I'm also "in" Chelmsford
[18:27] <henryplumb> That look right
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[18:27] <cm13g09> for a given definition of "in", isn't that right chrisstubbs?
[18:27] <chrisstubbs> something like that cm13g09 haha
[18:27] <mfa298> you can probably get an mvt-7100 cheaper than that (I think I got mine for around £60
[18:27] <chrisstubbs> in/around
[18:27] <cm13g09> hey... I've got a CM postcode :P
[18:28] <henryplumb> mfa298, like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scanner-Yupiteru-MVT-7100-Radio-Bands-Aircraft-etc-/290992230175?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item43c07d0f1f
[18:28] <henryplumb> Anyway, having dinner now! Cheers for your held mfa298 and others! :)
[18:28] <henryplumb> I'll be back!
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[18:31] <chrisstubbs> evening ibanezmatt13, did you get your new iron?
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> evening Chris, yeah I did
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> Got the Hakko
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> Very very nice
[18:32] <chrisstubbs> Money well spent then!
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> definitely
[18:32] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I've established the need for two soldering irons....
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[18:32] <chrisstubbs> same
[18:32] <cm13g09> one for the desk, one for the workshop :P
[18:32] <chrisstubbs> i have a crappy maplin one for doing crappy things
[18:32] <chrisstubbs> and the atten for smd stuff
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> My very first SMD soldering: http://sdrv.ms/GMHxll
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[18:33] <chrisstubbs> I was going to ask if you had populated any more of the board
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> yep, SD socket, humidity/temp sensor, not shown on that pic but I've also since added quite a few 0603 resistors
[18:34] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
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[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> Just waiting on the rest of the parts from Upu, and I'll be finished :)
[18:34] <chrisstubbs> try not to add anything that might get in the way for doing your atmega/ublox
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I've planned in which order to put things on already
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> and chrisstubbs, I've managed to sort out some code which might not work first time, but it's not going to be too far off https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB_3/blob/master/NORB3.ino
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> I wanted to do that thing we're people put licences and credits at the top. Makes it look more professional :)
[18:35] <chrisstubbs> looks promising!
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[18:36] <chrisstubbs> I should rewrite my tracker code some day, its a mess
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[18:37] <chrisstubbs> going with delays instead of interrupts?
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> I suppose thats something to have a go at when you have it all working
[18:37] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know the difference :/
[18:37] <ibanezmatt13> it's been mentioned a few times
[18:38] <mfa298> delays are easier to understand initially
[18:38] <chrisstubbs> yeah wayy easier
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> I think delays is what I've gone for initially
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[18:38] <mfa298> delays is what's in the wiki example
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> Is this to do with just NTX2?
[18:39] <chrisstubbs> the interrupt basically lets your NMEA parser run in the background, and your transmitting code runs only when you need to send a bit (a small fraction of the time at 50baud against 16mhz or whatever)
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> ah right I see
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> I think delays will be fine though tbh
[18:40] <mfa298> using interupts you tell the uC to run a small function at certain times so you'de use it to send each bit but the uC can do other things at other times
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[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> that would be more economical for processing power, but I'm really not too bothered about it in this stage
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> Hey chrisstubbs, you ever soldered a micro sd connector before?
[18:41] <chrisstubbs> Yeah
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'm dreading it
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> I've done the 4 corners
[18:41] <chrisstubbs> i specifically found one i could get as a free sample with the pins along the edge
[18:41] <chrisstubbs> those ones scare me :P
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> yea, I'm good at finding the hardest-to-solder components
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> I've got a very fine tip on order
[18:42] <chrisstubbs> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/IMAG11931.jpg
[18:42] <chrisstubbs> oh nice work bit.ly plugin
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[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> So I guess, flux pen through the top, then bring fine tip through say the inlet for the card and the solder in from the top and they can meet up and make a nice joint :)
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> that's the plan anyhow
[18:43] <chrisstubbs> you might be able to get both through the top
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> maybe for the middle pins yeah
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> the ones right at the edge which are blocked by the roof of the connector may proof to be tricky
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> unbelievably, I'm still in doubt as to whether I actually wired the SD up right in Eagle anyway :/
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[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> should be fine though
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> I took apart loads of electronic things and found some 0603 resistors, so I nicked them and put them on mine :P
[18:46] <chrisstubbs> haha
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[18:47] <mfa298> good practice
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[18:48] <henryplumb> back again
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[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking that I might like to do some sort of talk at next year's conference, but then I thought, well what the heck have I got to say that's of any use anyway... So sod it :)
[18:50] <mfa298> I'm sure you could find something if you wanted to.
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> I could talk about the evolution of NORB and how I ordered 3 PCBs before deciding to make only the last generation of NORB board.
[18:50] <henryplumb> Planning on using Raspberry Pi with NTX2B and uBlox Max 6 GPS for tracking
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> good call henryplumb
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[18:50] <henryplumb> and NORB code from github ;)
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13> even better call
[18:51] <mfa298> that's a method a few people have done for.
[18:51] <henryplumb> haha :L
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13> well, it worked perfectly for Wonderworks. Not that great for me, but still kinda worked
[18:51] <mfa298> even better call is to write your own code :D
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13> well yes, always
[18:52] <henryplumb> doing high res images stored on the SD and then low res sent via SSDV from the pi and ntx2b during flight from the raspberry pi camera
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> certainly not the most fun at times, but definitely the most rewarding
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[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[18:52] <henryplumb> I am fluent in Python but, new to this GPS and radio stuff so best to start with something that's proven to work!
[18:52] <mfa298> writing code gets easier as you do more of it (as long as you keep doing it)
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> henryplumb, have you used pyserial before?
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb, I started with little programming knowledge at all, and I still wrote it myself. I just asked questions :)
[18:53] <henryplumb> I think I used it once an awefully long time ago
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[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> It's very straight forward in Python, you'll pick it up easily
[18:54] <henryplumb> awesome, cheers
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[18:55] <henryplumb> Intend on using dl-fldigi for the flight on my linux netbook
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> oh mfa298, I got that "non-serial" version of the code working :) Works great. Fails if it's too long, if it succeeds, it passes it to the parse_NMEA function which also works a treat :D
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> one issue, when I declare a variable as a byte, say: byte flightmode; it doesn't know what byte is. Not sure why
[18:57] <mfa298> byte isn't a standard type
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[18:57] <mfa298> you probably want char or something like uint8_t
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[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> right
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[19:00] <henryplumb> ibanezmatt13 does your code just use the tx and rx pins on the pi?
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> for ublox and ntx2
[19:00] <henryplumb> rx to gps and tx to ntx2
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> no
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> well not quite
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> RX and TX to Ublox
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> as it transmits and recieves data
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> just TX to NTX2
[19:01] <henryplumb> so tx goes to both?
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[19:01] <henryplumb> okay
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> they can share the same line, there isn't any conflict
[19:01] <bertrik> ah, you can see the GPS setup in the air too?
[19:02] <ibanezmatt13> Just make sure you get it the right way round. TX to RX, RX to TX for ublox. TX to NTX2
[19:02] <henryplumb> right, cheers :)
[19:02] <henryplumb> got a NTX2B but, need to get a ubox now :)
[19:03] <henryplumb> *ublox
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[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> you know where to get it from? :)
[19:03] <chrisstubbs> wow, hacksaw blade in a plastic handle looked like a terrible tool but its probably the best thing I have used for payload box foam cutting
[19:03] <henryplumb> Nope
[19:03] <mfa298> the 9600baud stuff for the gps will just show up as a bit of noise on the radio.
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> there's only one answer to the above question ;)
[19:03] <mfa298> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=common/home
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> ^ right there
[19:04] <mfa298> use that site for radio modules and gps
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[19:05] <henryplumb> Okay, got the site
[19:05] <henryplumb> Loads of ublox stuff, which one do I want?
[19:05] <mfa298> probably the 3.3v breakout board will do you best
[19:06] <mfa298> hopefully that's the store you got the NTX2B from.
[19:06] <henryplumb> This one? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[19:06] <henryplumb> I did get my NTX2B there because it was the cheapest place I could find to buy it
[19:07] <henryplumb> didn't know at the time that it's where I "should" be getting my stuff from
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[19:07] <mfa298> I think it's the only place to buy the ntx2b at the moment
[19:07] <henryplumb> So VCC and GND from Pi 3.3V and ground?
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[19:08] <henryplumb> k
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[19:08] <jedas> Hi, sorry for maybe obvious question. What kind of parser configuration I need to create to be able to test SSDV packets on fldigy ?
[19:08] <mfa298> that board or the one with a chip antenna on should work.
[19:08] <henryplumb> cheers
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> You may discover that an external power supply may be more reliable than powering everything off the Pi, but cross that bridge when you get to it :)
[19:09] <henryplumb> Got switching regulators
[19:09] <mfa298> jedas: do you mean settings on dl-fldigi or on the radio transmitter
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[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> good henryplumb
[19:10] <jedas> well, i've ported master-ssdv for my controller/transmitter. And I think do get proper output. the same program valides JPEG as correct. just fldigi refuses to decode it
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[19:10] <henryplumb> Use lithium AA's :)
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> excellent
[19:10] <daveake> jedas transmitting from what h/w?
[19:10] <jedas> so I assume I'm missing fldigy settings, or "parser configuration" ?
[19:10] <mfa298> jedas: are you using the original fldigi or dl-fldigi ?
[19:10] <jedas> custom PCB with 3MP cmos sensor and on of those 433mhz modules
[19:10] <jedas> dl-fldigi
[19:11] <daveake> no config needed other than what you use for normal text
[19:11] <jedas> i do get output, just program doesn't recognize it as jpeg
[19:11] <daveake> You are using 8-bits, right?
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[19:11] <mfa298> assuming you're transmitting rtty it should just work
[19:11] <jedas> i see everything what i transmit on RTTY, but I've expected to see JPEG on SSDV view window, should I ?
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[19:12] <jedas> for example i've transmitted test string "$$A1,15254,15:36:34,52.145255,000.542061,00118,0000,03,3F4D3F2F,45*62" and i see it on dl-fldigy text output screen
[19:12] <jedas> but when I transmit jpeg, I see only binary data, no decoding
[19:13] <mfa298> if it's sending valid ssdv packets it should say that it's received an ssdv packet where it shows telemetry strings and you should see the image appearing in the ssdv window
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[19:13] <jedas> i see. then i probably have some errors in the transmission
[19:13] <mfa298> you'll need to open the ssdv window (View -> ssdv Rx)
[19:13] <jedas> even though short strings comes allright
[19:13] <henryplumb> ibanezmatt13 Can I do GPS telemetry and SSDV at the same time from my pi and NTX2B ?
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> well
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> send telemetry in between ssdv packets
[19:14] <henryplumb> How do I accomplish that?
[19:14] <keydash> with a raspberry processing the images
[19:14] <keydash> :D
[19:14] <jedas> mfa298: yea, did that, but no info on callsign, no image at all and so on. Anyway, at least I will know that i'm not missing any settings. Thanks
[19:15] <mfa298> what settings are you using to send the ssdv data
[19:15] <jedas> I've tried 300, 600, 1200 bps
[19:15] <jedas> shift ~500 hz
[19:16] <mfa298> bits / stopbits / parity ?
[19:16] <jedas> 8N1
[19:16] <keydash> how i can hear the sound through dl-fldigi
[19:16] <keydash> ?
[19:16] <jedas> RTTY, ASCII-8
[19:16] <mfa298> it's probably best to stick with 300 initially.
[19:17] <jedas> I see. Just it takes 5 min or so to see that there is nothing happening. Or if it gets right header, I should immediatelly see callsign info, or something like that ?
[19:17] <mfa298> and shift should be at least the same as the baud rate (some will say it should be a multiple of the baud rate)
[19:17] <jedas> I adjust shift visually from waterfall
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[19:17] <mfa298> In the box that shows the telemetry line with green/red it should say if it's decoded an ssdv packet
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[19:18] <chrisstubbs> jedas, you should see in the decoded text window the start of a SSDV packet as "Uf"
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> proceeded by the encoded callsign and other data
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[19:19] <mfa298> faster speeds will show up more timing bugs so getting it working at a slower speed can be easiest, then once it's working speed things up.
[19:19] <jedas> yea, I do get that in secondary UART port. that's how I know it's correct packet before RF
[19:19] <jedas> I need to make use i see it on fldigy decoded window
[19:19] <mfa298> have you increased the recieve filter bandwidth in the dl-fldigi settings (again make that similar to the baud rate)
[19:19] <jedas> Ok, thanks guys. I'll know that I'm the right track :)
[19:20] <jedas> untill now I've played with "auto"
[19:22] <henryplumb> How do I convert JPG's on my Pi to packets to be sent via my NTX2B
[19:22] <henryplumb> ?
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[19:24] <chrisstubbs> henryplumb, https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv
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[19:24] <henryplumb> cheers chrisstubbs
[19:24] <chrisg7ogx> evening all
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> ssdv -e -c HENHAB -i 1 image.jpeg ssdvoutput.whatever
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> then write ssdvoutput.whatever to the serial port byte by byte
[19:25] <henryplumb> what's HENHAB there?
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> callsign
[19:25] <mfa298> if you're taking high resolution pictures you might want to reduce the size of the ones you're sending first.
[19:25] <henryplumb> kk
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> i think its supposed to be 8 letters long
[19:25] <henryplumb> I was going to do that, what size do you reccommend mfa298?
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> Yeah Up to 6 digits
[19:26] <henryplumb> At 50 baud
[19:26] <chrisstubbs> oops not 8
[19:26] <henryplumb> :L
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb, https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[19:26] <henryplumb> hah
[19:26] <mfa298> Id recommend you don't do ssdv at 50bd
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> :P
[19:26] <henryplumb> mfa298 ???
[19:27] <mfa298> at 300bd you'll end up sending around 20 bytes of jpeg data a second
[19:27] <henryplumb> okay
[19:27] <henryplumb> So what size should I reduce to before sending to be able to receive in a reasonable time?
[19:28] Action: fsphil peeks in
[19:28] <daveake> I aim for <5 minutes per pic, but it's up to you
[19:28] <henryplumb> 5 mins would be fine
[19:28] <daveake> Remember that actual flight pictures will compress better than ones you take on the ground
[19:28] <henryplumb> kk
[19:28] <daveake> Black sky you see
[19:28] <henryplumb> What size did you use daveake
[19:28] <fsphil> at 300 baud you should see image data being displayed every 10 seconds
[19:28] <daveake> Whatever gave me 5 minutes :)
[19:28] <henryplumb> Haha :L
[19:29] <daveake> Largest was 5xx x 3xx pixels
[19:29] <henryplumb> Okay, cheers
[19:29] <mfa298> 300 baud means 300 symbols, at 8n2 each byte of data has 11 symbols (1 start bit, 8 data bits, 2 stop bits) (which gives 27 bytes at 300baud), ssdv adds some fec etc hence the approx 20bytse of jpeg data (having not checked the ssdv overheads)
[19:29] <daveake> I forget the actual numbers
[19:29] <daveake> <5 mins at 600 baud
[19:30] <henryplumb> k
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[19:30] <fsphil> there are 205 byte of jpeg data in each packet
[19:30] <henryplumb> right
[19:30] <fsphil> 32 bytes of FEC, the rest are headers and CRC
[19:30] <jedas> So I see Uf at the begining of the packet, bet no telemetry info. Is there a way to see what's wrong with the packet? http://picpaste.com/Capture-9TEAE0EF.PNG
[19:31] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[19:31] <fsphil> another common gotcha: linux converting newlines
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[19:32] <fsphil> or NUL '\0' bytes being dropped
[19:32] <fsphil> do you have a recording jedas?
[19:32] <jedas> audio ?
[19:32] <fsphil> yea
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[19:32] <jedas> no, but I can do that
[19:33] <gonzo_> did b19 ever pop up again?
[19:33] <henryplumb> daveake Do you have an example of how you did SSDV on your pi?
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[19:35] <daveake> henryplumb You just run ssdv then read the resulting file and shove it out of the serial port
[19:36] <Maxell> yeah what happend with b-19?
[19:36] <henryplumb> daveake I don't know how to do that, sorry new to this :s
[19:36] Action: mfa298 makes a note that his rtty code is probably broken for ssdv.
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[19:37] <daveake> henryplumb Well, in that case, get a basic tracker running first
[19:37] <henryplumb> daveake can I do that with a shell script or python?
[19:37] <daveake> Adding SSDV to that is straightforward
[19:37] <daveake> either
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[19:38] <daveake> But assuming you're doing telemetry, then python or C or some other proper language
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> yes, SSDV is a pretty simple addition. I used a shell script to continuously try to load up the tracker code (python script) every few seconds so if for some reason it crashed it would restart again.
[19:38] <henryplumb> daveake I
[19:38] <henryplumb> daveake I'm going to do telemetry with Ublox Max 6 and NTX2B
[19:39] <daveake> Good choices
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[19:39] <henryplumb> Using ibanezmatt13 's NORB code from github
[19:39] <jedas> fsphil: http://jedas.fpv.lt/capture.wav
[19:39] <jedas> here is that audio
[19:39] <fsphil> thanks, will take a look at it
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb, it may need a little tweaking but it should be pretty good to go. But remember, have a go at writing it yourself :D
[19:40] <daveake> +1
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> I've never been +1'd by daveake :o wow
[19:41] <henryplumb> Cheers ibanezmatt13 and daveake I'm quite good with python but, new to all these big HAB words and things :L
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> so definitely a good point!
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> henryplumb, it's far simpler than you'd think
[19:42] <henryplumb> :)
[19:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: with all these people looking at your code you're going to have to start a website about it
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> I know :P
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> You'd understand it all so much more if you wrote it yourself. Seeing all those errors, realising why they were happening etc. It helps MASSIVELY with one's understanding of the components one is using, as I discovered in my early days
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[19:43] <henryplumb> I'll give it a go myself and see how much of my hair I've pulled out by the end! :)
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> enough to grow the same amount back again, and more
[19:44] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 "in my early days" :p
[19:44] <mfa298> and once you've written a tracker in python, you can learn C for version 2 :D
[19:44] <daveake> last month wasn't it? :p
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> well I am a coding specialist daveake, don't forget that :p
[19:44] <henryplumb> Haha :L
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, 4th paragraph, line 1
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> proof
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[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.wonder.co.uk/news/news_detail/paddy-power-space-agency
[19:45] <daveake> hah
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:45] <daveake> "in the media" != "proof" as I'm sure you know :)
[19:45] <henryplumb> :L
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> you're in the media aren't you? That's proof on your coding specialism
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> right, I'm off to sleep my cold away. Night all!
[19:47] <Maxell> have a great night
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> lol, thanks :)
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[19:48] <henryplumb> Cheers for your help ibanezmatt13
[19:49] <henryplumb> Right, I'll call it a day and watch some Sunday night TV!
[19:49] <henryplumb> Cheers for your help all, sorry for so many questions! daveake fsphil mfa298 etc. :)
[19:50] <fsphil> jedas: hmm not sure. do you have the ssdv data I can download?
[19:50] <mfa298> we're good at answering questions
[19:50] <henryplumb> you sure are :)
[19:50] <henryplumb> Trust me, I'll be back with plenty more of them! :)
[19:50] <mfa298> we get lots of practice :)
[19:50] <jedas> you mean the data i was pushing ? I can record that too
[19:50] <jedas> Can I catch you tommorow here ?
[19:50] <henryplumb> Night
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[19:51] <mfa298> if you havn't found it there's a lot of good stuff on the ukhas.org.uk wiki as well
[19:51] <henryplumb> Cheers, night :)
[19:51] <fsphil> jedas: probably tuesday, travelling tomorrow
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[19:52] <fsphil> worth trying 2 stop bits too
[19:52] <jedas> fsphil: allright. I'll play with it tommorow more. If I'll get no luck, I'll ask you for the help
[19:52] <jedas> ok
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[19:52] <jedas> Thanks anyway. c you later
[19:52] <fsphil> cya
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[20:02] <chrisg7ogx> any balloon activity on the horizon? pun intended
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:36] <WillTablet> Hi
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[20:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[20:45] <fsphil> yes. it is
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[20:51] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, payload box for the canon is coming along
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[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> can't sleep
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, sounds like you are in the right state for programming
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> :P
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> != sleeping
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> hey cuddykid
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> if you can't sleep, why would you program?
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> that almost came out as currykid
[21:03] <cuddykid> evening chrisstubbs
[21:03] <cuddykid> haha
[21:03] <cuddykid> I do like currys
[21:04] <WillTablet> I found out today that my gmail account was made when I was 6
[21:04] <WillTablet> I never realizef
[21:04] <WillTablet> *realized
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[21:09] <bertrik> WillTablet: have you at least seen an actual diskette?
[21:11] <WillTablet> Of course.
[21:11] <WillTablet> It was 7 years ago.
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[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs, may I ask what software you used to create your website?
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> I want to make on but don't know where to bgin
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> begin*
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> at our office at uni we have a 5 1/2" floppy
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> the one of the Ph.D. guys found it in the laser lab
[21:14] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: any big changes?
[21:15] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: I've about 20 of those disks at home :)
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know any software to make a website for NORB?
[21:19] <fsphil> vim :)
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> never heard of it
[21:20] <x-f> oh that's what your callsign means!
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[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> If it looked like this: http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/, I'd be very pleased
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> Just wondered what software would create something like tha
[21:21] <Upu> thats just workpress
[21:21] <Upu> wordpress
[21:21] <Upu> have you got some webhosting ?
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> no but I can get some
[21:21] <Upu> get some with Workpress on it
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> what does that enable me to do?
[21:21] <x-f> blog
[21:21] <Upu> and remember kids wordpress is an unauthenticated remote shell that, as a useful side feature, also contains a blog
[21:22] <Upu> ava.upuaut.net is also wordpress
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[21:22] <Upu> http://habduino.org/ is SimpleCMS
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, did you use any software to do it?
[21:22] <Upu> http://get-simple.info/
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[21:22] <Upu> Wordpress is the software
[21:22] <Upu> you do it all via admin pages
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[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I have zero experience in web pages and things
[21:23] <Upu> Simple has less crap in it
[21:23] <Upu> and doesn't use MySQL backend
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get that then
[21:24] <ibanezmatt13> wait, it's not even a program
[21:24] <ibanezmatt13> how does that work
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[21:24] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, do you even install this software?
[21:25] <Upu> you upload the basic site to your webserver
[21:25] <ibanezmatt13> I can't understand how you can create a site without installing something on your PC to make it in :P
[21:26] <Upu> you login to an admin page
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
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[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have to read their wiki, I have no idea what I'm doing :)
[21:27] <Upu> well
[21:27] <Upu> your first webpage
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[21:28] <Upu> is a milestone :)
[21:28] <Upu> go install Linux, stick a web server on it and do it yourself
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> it says unzip it to your web server... what?
[21:28] <Upu> unzip it
[21:28] <Upu> and upload the pages
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> right, I've got the unzipped file. But I don't have a web server, don't know what a web server is, how it works or how to get one :) I'll research
[21:29] <Upu> lol
[21:29] <Upu> a program that serves webpages
[21:29] <Upu> its time to learn Linux Matt
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[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> mm
[21:29] <cuddykid> <html><head></head><body>My First Page</body></html> <- c&p that into a text editor and save it as whatever.html then click on it :)
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> I'm a Windows person
[21:29] <Upu> virtual machine or an old PC
[21:30] <Upu> so am I
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> I have a PI
[21:30] <Upu> perfect
[21:30] <Upu> apt-get install nginx
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> nginx?
[21:30] <bertrik> "engine X"
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> it's a server
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[21:30] <Upu> or some other light weight webserver
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[21:31] <Upu> Apache is one of the most popular
[21:31] <ibanezmatt13> ok so I need to install nginx onto my Pi, step 1
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[21:31] <Upu> but not sure Apache is particularly "light weight"
[21:31] <ibanezmatt13> step 2... (void)
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[21:32] <Upu> interesting IIS and nginx are have about the same "market" share
[21:32] <Upu> step 2
[21:32] <Upu> sudo service nginx start
[21:33] <Upu> step 3 http://whatevertheipaddressofyourpiis
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[21:33] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[21:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'm writing all this down btw
[21:34] <ibanezmatt13> ok step 3 noted
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[21:34] <ibanezmatt13> so loading that URL will say something like "nginx server blah is running"
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[21:35] <Upu> yeah
[21:35] <ibanezmatt13> is that it?
[21:35] <Upu> stick a file down /usr/share/nginx/www
[21:35] <Upu> call it matt.html
[21:35] <Upu> put <html><head></head><body>My First Page</body></html> in it
[21:35] <ibanezmatt13> that's where I save it/
[21:35] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[21:35] <Upu> save it
[21:35] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:35] <Upu> then http://raspiip/matt.html
[21:35] <Upu> etc
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> nice
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[21:36] <Upu> well done you're running a webserver
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> so each file is a page?
[21:36] <Upu> same one as Tiamat uses
[21:36] <Upu> in its most basic form yes
[21:36] <Upu> static content
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok, and where does this "simple" thing come in
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> what ever that software was before
[21:36] <Upu> upload all the simple files to that directory
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> wait
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> what do you mean?
[21:37] <Upu> copy all the files in that zip
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[21:37] <Upu> to /usr/share/nginx/www
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:37] <Upu> now a number of ways to achieve this
[21:37] <Upu> scp
[21:37] <Upu> winscp
[21:37] <Upu> ftp
[21:37] <Upu> smb
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> I've used winscp
[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> I use it all the time for pi
[21:38] <Upu> off you go
[21:38] <ibanezmatt13> bit too late to do it tonight :) I'm writing it down for tomorrow
[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> So I copy the simple unzipped files to the directory on my Pi and once I've done that, BAM, my website looks awesome? Upu
[21:39] <Upu> well
[21:39] <Upu> you may need to customise it
[21:39] <Upu> also
[21:39] <Upu> it will only be availble internally to your network
[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> that's fine for now
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> how is customising possible?
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[21:40] <Upu> I wouldn't run a live public facing site on the Pi but you'll learn how to do it
[21:40] <Upu> you can select templates
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[21:40] <Upu> customise colours
[21:40] <Upu> pictures etc
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> using what though?
[21:40] <Upu> and put your own content on it
[21:40] <Upu> the web browser
[21:40] <Upu> its all done via the browser
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[21:40] <Upu> anyway enough for tonight
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[21:41] <Upu> tomorrow we shall cover "vi"
[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> cool, whatever that is :)
[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> right, off to bed
[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> night
[21:41] <Upu> night
[21:41] <qyx_> don't show him vi
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[21:41] <Upu> looking for volunteers to teach Matt about vi, I'm not doing it :)
[21:41] <qyx_> you'll scare him
[21:41] <Upu> lol
[21:42] <Upu> everyone at work knows when I'm using it as all you can hear is *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding*
[21:44] <qyx_> disabling bell works ok :)
[21:44] <qyx_> and if doing locally, rmmod pcspkr is the best solution i know for resolving all similar problems \o/
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:46] <Upu> haha
[21:46] <Upu> first web page thats like a rite of passage
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[21:47] <Upu> http://web.archive.org/web/19980628172035/http://www.ecliptic.demon.co.uk/
[21:47] <Upu> 1998 for me
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[21:50] <arko> wow
[21:50] <Upu> were you even born then arko ? :)
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[21:51] <arko> needs more dancing baby :p http://i.imgur.com/vMzRw.gif
[21:51] <mikestir> hehe you've got me looking for mine now. I think I had something on u-net even earlier than that, but it was probably on a /~blah type address
[21:51] <arko> i think my first website was a geocities or something
[21:51] <arko> fairly new technology to ham radio websites
[21:52] <arko> now days at least
[21:52] <arko> http://geocities.yahoo.com/index.php
[21:52] <arko> :( aww
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[21:53] <Upu> no where will all the internets under construction gifs reside now
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[21:55] <qyx_> i remember using internet on win3.11 over ipx to local unix server
[21:55] <qyx_> it could be around 97 too
[21:55] <qyx_> trumpet tcp/ip stack for win
[21:55] <Upu> thats old school :)
[21:56] <mikestir> :) found some posts of mine on usenet dating back to the beginning of 96
[21:56] <qyx_> i didn't even know what internet is at that time :)
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[21:59] <SpeedEvil> I think y first post was 94
[22:01] <mikestir> earliest one for me seems to be december 95, which was a couple of months after we got the internet at home (I was still at school then)
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> Jan 91
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> first website ever http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
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