highaltitude.log.20131010

[00:04] <enkidu> 1.42V? alkaline?
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[05:52] <OH1MN> GM from rainy Turku / Finland...
[05:52] <Upu> morning
[05:53] <x-f> morning
[05:54] <OH1MN> LeoBodnar: dont want to get ur hopesup but OH3DP has informed that he sometimes here a beep or two on 434500, possbily from B-17...but as the guys were yesterday seraching for it, no trace. But -3DP hopes to get his station listening and possibly decoding something today.
[06:05] <Upu> could be an older B there are quite a few possibly still about
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[06:10] <arko> mornin
[06:10] <Krouty> morning
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[06:12] <x-f> i was gonna say "flying dutchmen" but that would be geographically incorrect because of their origin
[06:15] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: #UKHAS Arctic Challenge http://t.co/Kd0PfPIz4C #amsat #hamr #amateurradio #hab
[06:16] <arko> hahaha
[06:16] <arko> rule 8
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[06:16] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:arctic_challenge
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[06:18] <x-f> "has to be launched from the UK" :/
[06:22] <Rebounder-SM3ULC> Build a balloon that would fly against the wind over the atlantic. That's a challenge!
[06:27] <Upu> x-f note point 6
[06:29] <x-f> ok, i didn't get that far :|
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[06:30] <WillTablet> Didn't realize we had contests
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[06:36] <iain_G4SGX> Morning chaps. Just found an OCOM document which seems to suggest we can only use 434 ISM for airborne telemetry, unless i missed summut. . http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra60.htm
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[06:41] <WillTablet> if his balloon/payload crosses 66.5622 but not 68.5622 ?
[06:41] <WillTablet> Don't they all have to cross that latitude?
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[07:02] <DL1SGP> good morning!
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[07:06] <jcoxon> morning DL1SGP
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[07:07] <ibanezmatt13> Morning. When soldering a micro sd socket, should I tin the tiny pads inside the socket before I stick it on or not?
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[07:08] <eroomde_> it might help ibanezmatt13
[07:09] <eroomde_> *but*
[07:09] <eroomde_> not with too much solder
[07:09] <eroomde_> or the pads won't sit flat
[07:09] <eroomde_> better to use flux if you have a flux pen
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> good point
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[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> I have a flux pen yes but say I already stuck the 4 corners down
[07:09] <jcoxon> it not the end of the world
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[07:10] <jcoxon> are the tabs now fluahs with the pads/
[07:10] <jcoxon> ?
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> Yes
[07:10] <OH7HJ> GM gents! How is B-18 doing?
[07:10] <jcoxon> so you should be able to apply the solder and let it get 'sucked' up by the pads/tabs
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[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, ok. Should be fine then
[07:10] <DL1SGP> assumably it is on ground OH7HJ
[07:10] <jcoxon> if you don't use too much solder
[07:11] <jcoxon> avoid large blobs as thats when bridges occur etc
[07:11] <DL1SGP> and good morning dear OH7HJ
[07:11] <WillDuckworth> interesting challenge jcoxon - nice one
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> I've got really fine solder now so it *should* be ko
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> gorgeous day up here
[07:13] <OH7HJ> Thanks info DL1SGP! Yes, the altitude curve might suggest so. If sun begins to warm the balloon soon, hope that it takes a hop up...
[07:15] <DL1SGP> we will see OH7HJ, I am not too optimistic though :) we do not have such cute ninja squirrels here, and if it came down where people saw it in the morning it may well have been taken up by kids, farmers, whosoever
[07:15] <DL1SGP> time for breakfast brb
[07:17] <OH7HJ> 26 MHz travels quite nice as surface wave, so if the Tx is alive it might be possible to hear it even 1 - 2 km away on ground.
[07:18] <jcoxon> so did people like 26Mhz as a freq choice?
[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde_, having the soldering iron next to a window is blowing the fumes into my room, not sure what to do :/
[07:18] <Darkside> OH7HJ: only with a decent antenna
[07:18] <Vostok> hey, you sent B-18 the wrong way
[07:18] <Darkside> and only if the antenna is in the air, not laying on the ground
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[07:20] <OH7HJ> Darkside, fortunatelyt there is good choice of 27 and 28 MHz mobile antennas among hams and CB people. So it might be possible to track it on ground.
[07:21] <Darkside> i mean on the payload
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[07:22] <OH7HJ> Yes, if the aerial lies flat on ground, the field is short cut. If even one radial points up, it will radiate as surface wave enough to track it.
[07:22] <Darkside> yeah
[07:22] <Darkside> the one case where you want the payload to land in a tree
[07:23] <Mik_WD8MNV> I was getting B-18 decodes w/ the U of Twente websdr
[07:23] <Darkside> only by line of sight though
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[07:23] <OH7HJ> jcoxon, sure it is interesting to get experience of different bands!
[07:25] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, I'm interested in its performance if we flew it on a proper latex balloon
[07:25] <jcoxon> with a full dipole
[07:25] <jcoxon> would we get just LOS or actually some propagation
[07:25] <OH7HJ> Darkside, you are correct, a tree would be ideal place for the balloon payload to catch in! OH7JG once suggestes putting a fishing hook on the aerial... ;)
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[07:26] <eroomde_> ibanezmatt13: nothing
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> right...
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[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> must say, I'm making lovely joints with this flux pen
[07:27] <OH7HJ> jcoxon, have you regulations about allowed size of balloon?
[07:27] <Darkside> jcoxon: take it from am amateur radio operator, who is also doing aPhD on the effects of ionospheric disturbances on low power HF data comms. You will not get local propagation at such a high frequncy
[07:27] <Darkside> you will get line of sight propagation, and perhaps some DX propagation
[07:27] <Darkside> but with such a low power, you wont get much at the other end
[07:27] <jcoxon> okay
[07:27] <Darkside> and you'd ned to be running something like WSPR to get anything out of it
[07:28] <Darkside> if you want local skywave, you ned to be running <=7MHz
[07:28] <Darkside> during the daytime anyway
[07:28] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: flux is amazing eh
[07:28] <ibanezmatt13> definitely
[07:28] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, once you get bigger then the balloons that Leo launches yes you needpermission to launch
[07:28] <jcoxon> but its not particularly difficult
[07:29] <Darkside> eroomde_: i really should write that ionospheric propagation primer shouldn;t I
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[07:31] <OH7HJ> jcoxon, how is the baloon size determined by regulations? Total gas volume? Or individual balloon size?
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[07:32] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, so anything below 2m in diamter at any point of the flight is exempt from requiring permission
[07:32] <jcoxon> when i say any point i really mean throughout the flight
[07:32] <jcoxon> so pretty much all meterological balloons are too big and so you need permission
[07:32] <OH7HJ> So that limits aerial size, but you could use larger balloon?
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[07:34] <OH7HJ> jcoxon, no restrictions for gas volume, as long as balloon + payload keeps within 2 m size?
[07:35] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, yes thats correct
[07:35] <jcoxon> we call that Pico ballooning
[07:35] <jcoxon> so you can launch whenever but are restricted.
[07:35] <jcoxon> Instead if you use a bigger balloon you need permission but no restriction on aerial size etc
[07:36] <jcoxon> and permission can be applied for quite easily
[07:36] <OH7HJ> Good! Are you using a single or multi balloon?
[07:36] <jcoxon> single for everything
[07:37] <jcoxon> with latex balloons we can hit 40km with ease
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde_: http://sdrv.ms/GMHxll
[07:37] <fsphil> getting it back is the trick
[07:37] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde_, the camera makes it look bad
[07:38] <OH7HJ> Would there be resrictions using 2 or 3 pico balloons for the payload?
[07:38] <enkidu> jcoxon: for these altitudes (over commercial air traffic) it is easier to get permissions
[07:38] <fsphil> as long as they all stay within 2m in any direction it's fine
[07:38] <fsphil> some of the early pico flights used two smaller balloon
[07:38] <fsphil> +s
[07:38] <eroomde_> ibanezmatt13: looks fine
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[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> cool, eroomde_ you reckon the Ublox will fit next to the antenna I'm using? :/
[07:39] <fsphil> but there was frequently a problem with one balloon bursting
[07:39] <eroomde_> you'll find out!
[07:39] <eroomde_> but yes
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> great thanks
[07:39] <eroomde_> if it doesn't you can bodge a coax on easily enough
[07:39] <eroomde_> and run it to an external antenna
[07:39] <eroomde_> so no worries
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> yeah good point
[07:39] <jcoxon> i don't recommend multi ballooned picos
[07:40] <OH7HJ> Yes, it is both safer and gives larger range to get the balloon well above flight levels. I guess you could add rather many pico balloon in bunch and keep it still well within 2 m..? ;)
[07:41] <OH7HJ> Was balloon burst the only problem with multi balloon picos?
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[07:44] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, yeah picos aren't spherical so you can fly a few
[07:45] <jcoxon> people like picos because they are cheap and easy to launch when you want
[07:45] <jcoxon> but proper flights are a better place to start
[07:45] <jcoxon> get a bit of altitude
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[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> on an 0603 resistor, if it says 103 on it, that means 10k right?
[07:45] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, did you see are new Arctic Challenge?
[07:46] <OH7HJ> jcoxon and fsphil, there are at least two tricks of preventing balloon burst. Only the trick of partial filling is well known and regularly used.
[07:47] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, its not easy to get identical lift in both balloons
[07:47] <jcoxon> and they have a habit of creating friction between the two
[07:47] <jcoxon> to get performance from these balloons you don't have very much mass for payloads etc
[07:47] <jcoxon> leo's payloads weight less then 15grams
[07:49] <OH7HJ> Actually, there are two more tricks than the usual partial filling... These help to get even lift and to avoid contact between balloons.
[07:49] <Zokol> ibanezmatt13: yep, 103 = 10 * 10^3
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[07:50] <OH7HJ> These tricks are gas valve and chaining balloons. And yes, they are suitable for picos, too! :)
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[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Zokol
[07:50] <jcoxon> OH7HJ, give it a go!
[07:52] <OH7HJ> I have not built balloons with actual Tx payload, but I have been experimenting with simple pilot balloons, however always thinking about how to increase their lift and reliability.
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[07:52] <LeoBodnar> morning gents
[07:53] <OH7HJ> Hi LeoBodnar! We are about to get to means increasing pico balloon lift to get above regular flight levels, using balloon chaining and simple gas valves.
[07:54] <OH7HJ> Balloon chaining is a relly simple trick. Only restriction is the 2 m overall size of the chain and payload.
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> Empty Qualatex balloon with no payload will float at 11000m
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> After few days stretching and at 9200m during the first night
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> And so will a chain of them without payload
[07:57] <OH7HJ> Balloon chaining means to put the balloons above each other, instead of side to side. Each above balloon line is fastened to the upper surface of each below baloon. I use tape for upper balloon line fastening to lower balloon surface.
[07:57] <LeoBodnar> With Hydrogen first night is at 9900m and after stretching 11500m
[07:57] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[07:58] <OH7HJ> This of course prevents balloons having contact with each other.
[07:59] <OH7HJ> Actually, I am experimenting with hydrgen balloons, too, because get it easily from my hydrogen welding machine... :)
[07:59] <fsphil> cheaper too
[07:59] <OH7HJ> Then the second trick, the gas bleed valve.
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[08:01] <OH7HJ> About hydrogen, yes it is cheap. However, it is ultra sensitive to static discharges. chaining balloons is also a safety feature with hydrogen. If use long enough chaining spacing, one ignited balloon will not ignite whole chain.
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: are you thinking about latex balloons or foil ones?
[08:02] <fsphil> true
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[08:02] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[08:02] <OH7HJ> Chaining should solve the friction problem with foil pico balloons. But back to the gas valve.
[08:02] <Lunar_LanderU> morning LeoBodnar
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[08:03] <Lunar_LanderU> I assume B-18 is out of order?
[08:03] <DL1SGP> good morning Lunar_LanderU, LeoBodnar, fsphil and all that I might not have greeted yet
[08:03] <Lunar_LanderU> morning DL1SGP
[08:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Guys Collectively :D
[08:04] <DL1SGP> :D
[08:04] <Lunar_LanderU> OK, here are two moments of fail if having two working places and two radios
[08:04] <Lunar_LanderU> 1) having the wrong radio at your place at the wrong time
[08:04] <Lunar_LanderU> 2) only having one BNC connector antenna
[08:04] <DL1SGP> heh
[08:05] <OH7HJ> fsphil, you mentioned the balloon burst problem. The standard trick to avoid it is partial filling. However, you get also partial initial lift with it, and it really does not solve the burst problem if the balloon rises higher than the burst limit.
[08:06] <LeoBodnar> Yo Steve
[08:06] <OH7HJ> Alternative means to solve the high alt burst is a low pressure bleed valve at the bottom of the pico balloon.
[08:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yo Leo :-)
[08:06] <DL1SGP> nice ISM signals in the B-18 band now, heh, quite noisy
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[08:07] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: I am a bit lost are you talking about latex or foil balloons?
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[08:09] <OH7HJ> With bleed valve, you can fill the foil balloon with full volume right on ground to get high initial lift. As the balloons rise, the low pressure bleed valve on the balloon mouth lets excess out, preventing bursting.
[08:10] <OH7HJ> Then how to make a simple and featherweight low pressure bleed valve for a pico balloon? One means is to use a small rubber band and a stick.
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: Ideal superpressure balloon floating altitude does not depend on its lift (as soon as it is above zero)
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> Actually higher lift makes it float lower
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> Because of extra gas weight
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[08:12] <LeoBodnar> It's fundamentally different from freely expanding ones like latex ones
[08:13] <OH7HJ> Yes LeoBodnar, chaining balloons is the means to get high alt, and valve is the means to prevent balloon high alt burst.
[08:14] <OH7HJ> The more balloons you add to lift the same payload, the higher alt.
[08:14] <jcoxon> bbl
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[08:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Andy :-)
[08:15] <M6GTG_Andrew> Morning Steve
[08:15] <OH7HJ> Back to gas bleed valve: Instead of tight tie on the balloon mouth, you my use a flexible tie, like the rather loose rubber band on a stick.
[08:15] <LeoBodnar> No, you can't get even 1000 Qualatex foil balloons go above 11000m
[08:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Did you hear any of us Morseing away last night?
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> One empty balloon floats at 11000m another one two. Tie them together and they will float at 11000m
[08:16] <M6GTG_Andrew> saw some faint traces but really bad QRM
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> *too
[08:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I heard a little QRM between keying. No other sigs though.
[08:17] <OH7HJ> What do you think limits their alt?
[08:17] <M6GTG_Andrew> didn't burn out your PA then? ;-)
[08:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D No, I stuck to 25W The Kenwood easily coped
[08:18] <M6GTG_Andrew> sent off for your QSL card?
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[08:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> I did as soon as we'd finished - Should be nice
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[08:19] <OH7HJ> There is also another important point: Chained multi balloons increase flight time. The weight of payload is shared between balloons.
[08:20] <M6GTG_Andrew> wonder if they have got any clues now to the gravity assist anomoly
[08:20] <LeoBodnar> Chained balloons have larger relative surface vs one large balloon -> bigger icing problem
[08:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not sure what that is.
[08:22] <M6GTG_Andrew> they have seen in previous gravity assist manouvers that despite calculations there is a unexpected 'speed up' so given this was happening near earth they were able to observe it if it happened
[08:22] <M6GTG_Andrew> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Operations/ESA_and_NASA_stumped_by_cosmic_mystery
[08:22] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: the limiting factor is envelope stretch. Foil balloon is made of nylon and stretches only about 20% from being barely inflated to burst
[08:22] <OH7HJ> Sure LeoBodnar, more balloons, more icing. But thinking still further, we see that the weight of the payload is shared between the balloons. So they can take more icing and still keep up..! ;)
[08:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll have a read Andy
[08:23] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ: Balloon itself weighs 37 grams and payload is 10. So relatively speaking payload can be ignored.
[08:24] <LeoBodnar> We need either lighter or bigger balloons :D
[08:24] <daveake> or stronger?
[08:25] <OH7HJ> Yes again, LeoBodnar, foil balloon bursts on stretch. The meanin of low pressure valve is to let expanding gas out, preventing balloon pressure rise which causes it burst.
[08:25] <Mik_WD8MNV> when a foil balloon fails, is it into little pieces or does it stay as a big chunk?
[08:26] <daveake> One big chunk
[08:26] <LeoBodnar> daveake: more gas = lower floating altitude
[08:26] <daveake> They don't seem to fail at particular places - e.g. the seam
[08:26] <Mik_WD8MNV> so i can act as a streamer then
[08:26] <Mik_WD8MNV> it*
[08:27] <gonzo_> I was just about to ask the same venting question
[08:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Interesting M6GTG_Andrew How the heck they measure 13mm/s gain.....
[08:27] <OH7HJ> yes, the balloon payload to weight ratio is important. However, every time you double the number of balloons, the reltive payload weight is split between balloons.
[08:27] <gonzo_> I assume that it would reach it;s float alt, but a little lower because it would not stretch
[08:27] <gonzo_> but venting would prevent burst
[08:27] <OH7HJ> That means longer flight time of course.
[08:28] <LeoBodnar> With 0.1 gram lift superpressure in a floating Qualatex is about 10% of bursting pressure
[08:28] <M6GTG_Andrew> G0TDJ_Steve: I suppose when travelling several million miles it might matter, "s**t we missed"
[08:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[08:29] <OH7HJ> Yes, venting with simple valve prevents expansion burst. With large weather balloons they do not use venting on purpose, because they are intended to burst on certain alt.
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> I'l say it again: zero weight payload on a qualautex balloon(s) will float at 11000m and not higher
[08:31] <LeoBodnar> With any free lift
[08:31] <LeoBodnar> *positive free lift
[08:31] <OH7HJ> Yes LeoBodnar, I guess foil balloon net weight sets their altitude limit? Then you can not get higher, but you will get farther with multi balloons.
[08:31] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: so what would we need to reach ~20 km float?
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[08:31] <Darkside> 100g latex balloon
[08:31] <Darkside> underinflated
[08:32] <Darkside> but it will probably only last a few days
[08:32] <OH7HJ> and vented
[08:32] <LeoBodnar> Better ratio of balloon weight / free lift
[08:32] <Darkside> OH7HJ: nah
[08:32] <Darkside> i've had 20kg floats with 100g balloons, unvented
[08:32] <Darkside> just with crap all free lift
[08:32] <Darkside> but they break down ventually
[08:32] <LeoBodnar> Latex is the way to go but it leaks and degrades
[08:32] <OH7HJ> Yes, latex works well underinflated
[08:32] <Darkside> yup
[08:33] <LeoBodnar> So you need to start from the goal first this will define material and balloon tech choice
[08:33] <OH7HJ> Anyone have experience about PE balloon life times?
[08:33] <LeoBodnar> years
[08:35] <OH7HJ> My hydrogen balloons are just cheap PE bags, actually trash bags. However, no Tx along, so I can not tell their life time.
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[08:37] <OH7HJ> A 150 liter PE plastic trash bag has quite a nice lift, althoug with hydrogen one has to be vary careful with static electricity of course. Would be no problem with helium.
[08:38] <OH7HJ> If such a large hydrogen bag ignites, it sounds like a howitzer shot.
[08:38] <Darkside> only if there is air in there too
[08:39] <OH7HJ> In my bags there is not air but oxygen, in ideal mixture. See, I use welding gas... :)
[08:39] <Darkside> haha
[08:39] <Darkside> bang
[08:39] <OH7HJ> rofl? ;)
[08:40] Action: DL1SGP likes things that ignite with a big bang
[08:40] <OH7HJ> Not just bang, but BOOM!
[08:40] <DL1SGP> hehe
[08:41] <OH7HJ> Actually, the hydrogen-oxygen is rather insensitive to flames. I usually have to ignite is a few seconds with an open flame like match stick until the gas ignites.
[08:42] <OH7HJ> But with electric sparks, it goes instantly!
[08:43] <LeoBodnar> Eternal beauty! http://www.cnes.fr/automne_modules_files/standard/public/p3691_ed77069b38b89947b9f6e5678e9af2adP24027.jpg
[08:43] <enkidu> agree
[08:44] <OH7HJ> When filling bags, it is good to arrange some distance between filler and bag, and use hearing and face protection and gloves.
[08:44] <enkidu> so maybe we must turn into open solar balloons
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[08:46] <LeoBodnar> The goal defines material and tech
[08:47] <OH7HJ> LeoBodnar, if I had found your B-15, what I actually had in mind for it would have been to continue its flight under a 150 or 250 liter hydrogen filled PE bag... :)
[08:47] <OH7HJ> Vented to prevent alt burst, of course.
[08:48] <LeoBodnar> Feel free OH7HJ :D
[08:49] <OH7HJ> Tnx, I will do for the next one I get hold of..! :)
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[08:55] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[08:58] <PE2G> GM, earlier this morning I recovered the De Bilt (NL) 00 UTC RS92-SGPD: http://bit.ly/17hb5hj
[08:58] <PE2G> http://s23.postimg.org/cmhmqdeaj/Screen1135.jpg
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[09:06] <nats`> hi !
[09:10] <fsphil> morning
[09:11] <natrium42> hello
[09:12] <eroomde> yo natrium42
[09:12] <eroomde> how are tricks?
[09:17] <Hix> Grrrrrrrrrrr 2fn:45 to get to work. A journey of 22 miles
[09:18] <mfa298> sounds like it might have been quicker to walk
[09:18] <mfa298> or at least jog
[09:20] <gonzo_> took me over an hour to get home on tuesday. 3 miles
[09:20] <eroomde> Hix, you could cycle that at a very very gentle pace
[09:21] <eroomde> on a dutch bike
[09:21] <eroomde> doffing your beret at the lovely young girls
[09:21] <Hix> with no chain or tyres
[09:21] <eroomde> and still get there quicker
[09:21] <Hix> i could probably crawl on my belly quicker
[09:21] <eroomde> y'all need to reverse commute like me
[09:21] <gonzo_> ('course , we 'ad it tough....)
[09:21] <eroomde> live in the centre of a city, drive to the arse-end of nowhere to make fire
[09:22] <eroomde> where make fire = be upset that ballscrew pdf catalogues don't have a pdf index
[09:22] <Hix> ironically eroomde there appears to be a very yummy mummy jogging club in rural Herts
[09:23] <gonzo_> measure the amount of thrust you get from the steam coming out of your ears!
[09:23] <gonzo_> that's why the traffic queues exist, for watching bottoms jogging passed
[09:24] <mfa298> paper catalogues work better for making fire with.
[09:24] <Hix> there were >12 of them, all in pristine nick
[09:24] <eroomde> no!
[09:24] <eroomde> paper catalogues are the best
[09:25] <Hix> eroomde HPCGears.com are pretty good on docs
[09:25] <eroomde> i wish everything was a paper catalogue
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[09:25] <eroomde> i usually by stuff from people that give me a paper catalogue
[09:25] <Hix> hpc do this too :)
[09:25] <eroomde> like HPC, whose paper catalogue i have infront of me
[09:25] <Hix> ha
[09:25] <eroomde> the RS website is basically unusable
[09:25] <eroomde> so farnell get all my custom
[09:25] <gonzo_> you get huge piles delivered, in case fo a servere winter
[09:25] <eroomde> i've definitely seen NSK catalogues in the wild
[09:25] <Hix> farnell is an arse to search sometimes, even if you have a part number
[09:25] <eroomde> but they don't seem to give me a form to ask for one on their site
[09:25] <mfa298> I thought that's why they keep sending out new catalogues, so you can use the old ones to make fire with
[09:25] <eroomde> should maybe invite their rep over
[09:26] <Hix> reps bring goodies too
[09:26] <eroomde> wurth have been great to us
[09:26] <eroomde> they have ever-lasting kits
[09:26] <natrium42> eroomde: in frankfurt airport
[09:26] <natrium42> going to visit moscow for a week
[09:26] <eroomde> say a compartment box
[09:26] <gonzo_> we used to have a good social club on site when i was with GEC
[09:26] <eroomde> natrium42, business or pleasure?
[09:26] <natrium42> and then going back to SF
[09:26] <natrium42> pleasure
[09:26] <eroomde> with a range of their connectors in
[09:26] <natrium42> got some relatives there
[09:26] <eroomde> all different types and sizes
[09:26] <gonzo_> we would arrange a rep to come in each friday
[09:26] <eroomde> and they will restock it free for life
[09:27] <natrium42> how have you been, eroomde?
[09:27] <eroomde> not bad. busy 3 months (we got funding!)
[09:27] <natrium42> cool, glad to hear that!
[09:27] <eroomde> but nothing that excites my equity yet, unlike you for which congrats!
[09:27] <natrium42> thanks :)
[09:27] <Hix> gonzo_ i seem to remember you saying that Fridays were a wee bit liquid fuelled
[09:27] <eroomde> did you buy a private jet and some models to serve you champagne?
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[09:28] <natrium42> haha, i am not there yet, and that's a bit too lavish for me
[09:28] <natrium42> but travelling business class is nice
[09:29] <Hix> ok lose the champagne
[09:29] <natrium42> lol
[09:30] <eroomde> nice when the hard work pays off
[09:30] <eroomde> so what are the plans now? are you full time at instagram for the next while?
[09:30] <natrium42> yeah, gotta serve my time
[09:30] <natrium42> and then i can do another startup
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[09:32] <eroomde> anything in mind?
[09:32] <natrium42> probably something hardware related this time around
[09:32] <natrium42> when are you moving to the bay? :P
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[09:33] <oh2fwt> huomenta ---good morning
[09:33] <eroomde> lol
[09:33] <DL1SGP> good morning oh2fwt
[09:33] <eroomde> well, given we just got funding for 3 years, not for a while!
[09:34] <eroomde> it's going to be a scary ride for us
[09:34] <Hix> large new Andriod expected to arrive at the office shortly :D
[09:34] <eroomde> need to get bigger by a factor about about 10 in that time
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[09:34] <eroomde> could do with talking to some valley people actually about how one does that without messing up
[09:35] <natrium42> you should have come for YC startup school
[09:35] <natrium42> it's on the 19th of october, i believe
[09:35] <eroomde> bit too late for that now :)
[09:36] <DL1SGP> there's always last-minute
[09:36] <natrium42> yeah...
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[10:49] <Herman-PB0AHX> GM all
[10:50] <Maxell> hai
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[10:52] <Herman-PB0AHX> he maxell al ok
[10:52] <Maxell> yes, RevSpace decoded a lot of B-18 yesterday
[10:53] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes i know i have no hf here hihihi only above 144 Mhz til 10.Ghz
[10:53] <Maxell> yay for software radio
[10:54] <Maxell> (and discone)
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[10:54] <Herman-PB0AHX> i have a dongel but not yet working here on laptop
[10:56] <Herman-PB0AHX> and hf is not importand for me hihihihih\
[10:56] <Maxell> I feel the same for >440 MHz
[10:57] <Herman-PB0AHX> yes that is wat i almost do above 430 til 10 GHz
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[10:58] <Herman-PB0AHX> on this moment i rebuld my radio room with al new wires en rig
[11:01] <Maxell> hehe
[11:01] <Maxell> you got some spare gadget money to spend?
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[11:09] <LZ1CLA> Hi Guys
[11:09] <LZ1CLA> I have hard time to set RF22B to transmit unmodulated carrier with arduino
[11:09] <LZ1CLA> any ideas ?
[11:12] <craag> LZ1CLA: Have you tried the code on the wiki?
[11:12] <LZ1CLA> yep.
[11:12] <LZ1CLA> It is not working with my board
[11:12] <LZ1CLA> not transmiting
[11:13] <craag> Right, have you checked all of the connections on the RFM22, such as the enable pin?
[11:13] <daveake> Have you wired it as per the comments ?
[11:13] <LZ1CLA> i have tested the board with RF22lib from 2013 and it works
[11:13] <craag> ah ok
[11:13] <LZ1CLA> the Test program works just fine
[11:13] <LZ1CLA> but i dont know how to set constant carrier
[11:13] <LZ1CLA> i set modem mode to OOK
[11:14] <LZ1CLA> or to unmodified
[11:14] <LZ1CLA> but no TX
[11:14] <LZ1CLA> should i do somehting else than switch TX on ?
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[11:30] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[11:40] <chris__> can some kind person please give me a dial freq for B18?
[11:41] <enkidu> 26.959MHz DominoEX 8
[11:41] <chris__> lots of fast firing machine guns on there at the moment
[11:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> It was 26.959MHz DomEx4
[11:41] <chris__> tks enkidu
[11:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> oh sorry, yes Dom 8
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[11:44] <chris__> nothing heard with cushcraft ma5b beam
[11:45] <enkidu> we need 27mhz yagi
[11:45] <chris__> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.21/Modes/domino.htm
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[11:46] <chris__> for those unfamiliar with dominoex
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[11:49] <DL1SGP> I got domex audible
[11:50] <DL1SGP> it is the bird!
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[11:50] <DL1SGP> 1847,51847,5589,7,1.45*2ed3
[11:50] <chris__> congrats dl1sgp
[11:50] <x-f> woo!
[11:51] <PE2G> DL1SGP: Excellent!
[11:51] <chris__> dl1sgp can you give us a countdown for the next tx?
[11:51] <DL1SGP> I will say NOW when it txes
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[11:52] <chris__> tks just before???!!
[11:52] <DL1SGP> NOW
[11:53] <fsphil> oh wow
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[11:53] <fsphil> don't these things ever die? :)
[11:53] <PE2G> DL1SGP: Update on the map
[11:53] <fsphil> haha
[11:53] <chris__> zero
[11:53] <fsphil> it's back in the air
[11:53] <fsphil> amazing
[11:53] <craag> fsphil: that is quite a recovery
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[11:54] <DL1SGP> woot we haz a floaty!
[11:54] <craag> exceeding the previous altitude...
[11:54] <fsphil> very odd
[11:55] <fsphil> it hadn't moved much since the last position
[11:55] <fsphil> definitly seems to have landed
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[11:55] <DL1SGP> if it does log transmission that will be in 5 minutes
[11:55] <fsphil> ah yes
[11:55] <fsphil> then we'll know
[11:55] <DL1SGP> now!
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[11:56] <fsphil> the log is a great idea
[11:56] <mfa298> is there anything Leo can't do with these balloons.
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[11:56] <DL1SGP> it is still raising in the skies!
[11:57] <DL1SGP> ok needs the vertical dipole for RX just switched antennas to the backup but nothing there
[11:58] <DL1SGP> now!
[11:59] <DL1SGP> climbing rather fast
[12:00] <fsphil> the previous float was very low
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[12:01] <DL1SGP> wx is not too evil here yet, but may get nuts later
[12:01] <DL1SGP> in case of it still being audible during evening I will run rig here remotely while at club meeting :D
[12:02] <DL1SGP> now
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> woot?!
[12:02] <DL1SGP> leo, it does not do the log thing I suppose?
[12:02] <enkidu> if Leo was air bomb designer, we would be safe
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> no log, sorry, it's quite basic thing
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[12:05] <fsphil> ah
[12:05] <fsphil> probably safe to assume it was on the ground for a while
[12:06] <fsphil> took off again at around 0900 utc
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> squirrels needed some time to come over from Finland
[12:06] <fsphil> flying squirrels
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[12:09] <ramm25> wel wel wel
[12:10] <fsphil> it got knocked down, but it got up again. you're never going to keep it down
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[12:16] <DL1SGP> back at the desk
[12:16] <fsphil> http://www.space.com/23146-juno-jupiter-spacecraft-glitch-earth-flyby.html
[12:17] <fsphil> bet it didn't record the CW being sent
[12:18] <M6GTG_Andrew> or all those amateurs running huge linears sending the CW fried it ;-)
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[12:18] <daveake> they pushed it a bit
[12:19] <DL1SGP> JUNO did not want to interfere with B-18 that is why it went to Safe-Mode of course :D
[12:19] <oh1jcs-qrl> Have B-18 entered the jetstream? http://www.wund.com/global/Region/EU/JetStream.html Gain altitude and going north.
[12:19] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[12:20] <M6GTG_Andrew> quick question, i've got a box full of unused pmr446 radios, can someone point me to the relevant link/info that outlaws them being dangled at the bottom of a balloon? ;-)
[12:21] <fsphil> you'd know if it entered the jet stream, it would be moving a bit faster than this :)
[12:21] <fsphil> IR2040 M6GTG_Andrew :)
[12:21] <fsphil> or is it 2030
[12:21] <DL1SGP> well it has reached float agn by now
[12:21] <fsphil> can never remember
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[12:21] <DL1SGP> clear signal over here, fine stuff
[12:22] <fsphil> actually ir2030 doesn't cover 446mhz
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[12:23] <M6GTG_Andrew> fsphil: thanks, will check it out just fancied a bit of an experiment
[12:24] <oh1jcs-qrl> Here to lern, a total balloon noob. Interesting sruff. :)
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> I had receiver running in the background all morning and I think I had B-18 on it
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[12:24] <LeoBodnar> o-18,739,1117tieto067,8.172!,3075t aen--1ner 740,111459,5f na9e!316,8,1.48*iTd3
[12:24] <fsphil> oh nice LeoBodnar
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> about 3km at 1117UTC?
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> $$B-18,746,1129no.3,8.1878,3868,7,1.46
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> $B-18,751,113226,52..1762,4491,7,1.45*0
[12:26] <jcoxon> shaken off the rain have we?
[12:26] <chris_4x1rf> LeoBodnar: dial and offset please?
[12:27] <jcoxon> fsphil, i hope you'll go for the arctic challenge...
[12:27] <DL1SGP> 26.595 MHz at 1306 for me
[12:27] <DL1SGP> 26.959 MHz sorrz
[12:27] <DL1SGP> *sorry
[12:27] <fsphil> jcoxon: hoping to. won't have a chance to even think about it for a while
[12:28] <fsphil> I can't see where 446mhz isn't allowed in the air
[12:28] <UpuWork> you have till next year :)
[12:29] <chris_4x1rf> DL1SGP: you also hear B18? there's vy good propagation to PA, DL on 10meters, maybe I have a chance
[12:29] <M6GTG_Andrew> fsphil: thats why I asked the question ;-) I couldn't find anything either
[12:29] <jcoxon> oooo 446 has been asked before i think
[12:30] <chris_4x1rf> so I'll appreciate the offset, I'm currently on +1280 in dl-fldigi
[12:31] <DL1SGP> 1306 for me chris_4x1rf
[12:31] <jcoxon> fsphil, M6GTG_Andrew http://ukspec.tripod.com/446/whatis.html
[12:31] <jcoxon> search for airborne
[12:31] <LeoBodnar> 26.959MHz USB with 1275Hz audio chris_4x1rf for me
[12:32] <chris_4x1rf> thanks Leo, I'm GPSDO locked here
[12:32] <fsphil> ah so it might actually be fine
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> nice!
[12:32] <fsphil> as we're not a registered aircraft
[12:33] <jcoxon> i suspect as usual its a grey area
[12:33] <jcoxon> i think teh first apex used 446
[12:33] <fsphil> hehe, not for OFCOM to decide
[12:33] <mattbrejza> aka 'the tank'
[12:33] <fsphil> suspect the rule will be, use it but don't cause too much interference
[12:33] <jcoxon> oooo i can hear B18 on the websdr
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Proper onboard radios are part of CAA aircraft certification requirement
[12:34] <gonzo_> depends what the AC is. Gliders don't need radios, but of fitted must be certified. So many use handfheld sets
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> so if craft is not registered (=not required to be registered then it is not covered by CAA requirements) as soon as it does not create undue interference to other radiotelegraphy equipment
[12:35] <gonzo_> (though that is all to change soon)
[12:35] <fsphil> nothing received on my radio overnight. tuned to 26959 with +1200hz offset
[12:35] <M6GTG_Andrew> jcoxon: yes it was on the apex website I spotted the pmr446 stuff
[12:35] <PH3V> stefan3q
[12:36] <tweetBot> @FelixTechie: after having landed in Germany for the night B-18 Balloon is in the air again http://t.co/TRGz4yf5qm #ukhas
[12:36] <DL1SGP> wow that was fast :D
[12:36] <DL1SGP> almost instant when I pressed "tweet"
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[12:38] <daveake> Leo is the new Barnes Wallis
[12:38] <DL1SGP> heh mr clusterballoon did not resume his flight after landing in New England :)
[12:39] <daveake> not entirely mad then
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[12:39] <DL1SGP> indeed daveake, his decision to land there was right, already the safety landing there was quite a dangerous adventure
[12:40] <DL1SGP> B-18 is -8db here during the transmission of DOmEX
[12:42] <x-f> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/110368_trj001.gif
[12:43] <fsphil> it's coming home
[12:43] <jcoxon> getting data but its getting slammed by big packets of interference
[12:43] <enkidu> france preparing to surrender
[12:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is the ERP limited to 10mW on all ISM bands?
[12:45] <fsphil> no
[12:45] <jcoxon> G0TDJ_Steve, no, for example 868 is 500mW
[12:45] <jcoxon> but 10% duty cucle
[12:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah....
[12:45] <jcoxon> cycle*
[12:46] <fsphil> which is a pain
[12:46] <jcoxon> the document you want is IR_2030
[12:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll do a search
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR_2030.pdf
[12:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Got it cheers Geoff-G8DHE-M
[12:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> See you in a few hours LOL>...
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[12:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Chris :D
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[12:48] <fsphil> so, when you getting a camera on one of these LeoBodnar? :)
[12:48] Action: DL1SGP votes for camera
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> what if it goes to Russia?
[12:49] <nats`> Jail !
[12:50] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, then Russia goes for you
[12:50] <Rebounder-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: you get an invoice for the SAM they had to use on it.. ;)
[12:50] <DL1SGP> does it have greenpeace symbols, or some rainbow flag on it?
[12:50] <x-f> haha
[12:52] <daveake> B-52 better be careful
[12:53] <DL1SGP> hehe start a Mig21 about 2 minutes past B-52 and they would think "hey it is being taken care of"
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[12:55] <OH7HJ> Sure you will get sued for piratist attack if get too east... ;) Fine thing that you kept listening for it DL1SGP, it could otherways have slipped unnoticed as people thought it was dead..!
[12:55] <daveake> Wouldn't take much to write a bot that circles it
[12:57] <DL1SGP> OH7HJ: thanks it is my pleasure. does not take much to monitor a frequency so if I can contribute Op time to NASA I can do same for UKHAS :)
[12:57] <eroomde> i would hope UKHAS is a higher priority than NASA
[12:57] <gonzo_> an anti missile balloon is about all they can afford these days
[12:57] <fsphil> UKHAS hasn't shut-down either
[12:57] <jcoxon> while NASA is closed shall we take its place
[12:58] <DL1SGP> eroomde: it is :) I did not participate in full Juno event to be able to check on B-18
[12:58] <nats`> is there any new balloon launch for central europe ?
[12:58] <fsphil> we have no budget to agree so woo-hoo :)
[12:58] <eroomde> nats`, we need more french launchers!
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[12:58] <nats`> eroomde we need you to change the law :p
[12:58] <nats`> I'll never launch in France with that law that's for sure
[12:59] <eroomde> what's the law?
[12:59] <nats`> for smallest ballon you need a police autorisation
[12:59] <nats`> you need to give a planning for the launch and the exact location
[12:59] <DL1SGP> hmm, police or gendamerie?
[13:00] <nats`> depends on where you're if I understood
[13:00] <OH7HJ> Perhaps the B-18 spotted an attractive girlie balloon balloon down there and decided to stay overnight... What do you monitor for NASA?
[13:00] <jcoxon> nats`, there have been french balloon launches in hte past
[13:00] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[13:00] <jcoxon> by schools etc
[13:00] <DL1SGP> I have contacts in Gendamerie so maybe with my next trip to France :)
[13:00] <nats`> jcoxon so they asked for authorisation
[13:00] <fsphil> we have to do the same here
[13:00] <jcoxon> can't be too difficul
[13:00] <jcoxon> t
[13:01] <fsphil> and getting anything from the CAA is tricky
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> fsphil,, What's the position with PECAN ?
[13:01] Action: jcoxon thinks we need a latex floater, people have got a bit Pico'y
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[13:01] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: had GPS trouble with it, going to re-try shortly
[13:02] <DL1SGP> hardest thing over here for floaters is the insurance. for high altitude flights of only a few hours duration you can get a 1 day insurance with some nice asking... but for a float that is a different thing
[13:02] <eroomde> indeed, we have to tell our CAA several weeks in advance when and where we want to launch
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[13:02] <fsphil> jcoxon: rescheduled for weekend after next
[13:02] <DL1SGP> over 7km altitude now
[13:02] <fsphil> CAA-permitting
[13:02] <jcoxon> fsphil, i might launch 19/20 Oct
[13:02] <DL1SGP> DL2OAU is starting to send data as well, I informed him by email
[13:02] <jcoxon> weather + CAA dependent
[13:03] <OH7HJ> Ask M6GTG_Andrew to sponsor a few PMR rigs and release them quietly in dark. PMR is free to everyone, explain... ;)
[13:03] <fsphil> snap jcoxon
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[13:03] <fsphil> I call dibs on 434.650 mhz :)
[13:03] <jcoxon> ha
[13:03] <fsphil> launch will most likely be saturday
[13:03] <fsphil> but I've asked for sunday too
[13:03] <jcoxon> okay i'll do 434.225 or what ever my ntx2b does
[13:03] <fsphil> you floating this one too?
[13:04] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:04] <nats`> jcoxon if I do an interesting payload maybe I'll take the time to ask for an autorisation
[13:04] <fsphil> two latex floaters
[13:04] <fsphil> this should be fun :)
[13:05] <jcoxon> nats`, yes thats a good approach
[13:05] <nats`> if I understand if you go over 2meter you need to have the civil aviation informed
[13:05] <jcoxon> nats`, thats teh rules in the UK
[13:05] <nats`> but in UK for less than 2 meters it's free
[13:05] <nats`> that's what I understand
[13:05] <gonzo_> not just informed, they have to issue you with permission
[13:06] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've just emailed David Miller
[13:06] <OH7HJ> M6GTG_Andrew, I did once an airborne APRS experiment together with OH7BD using a PMR rig tuned to 70 cm ham band. It sent the fixes quite OK from my electric glider and we got them igated online, too.
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> so is it just size? what about 2m cube balloon but really heavy?
[13:06] <jcoxon> fsphil, did you find that Thor code?
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[13:07] <nats`> gonzo_ yes but I mean after you need to call them 30 minutes before the effective launch
[13:07] <nats`> LeoBodnar in France there is a weight and the resistance of the wire attaching payload to balloon to respect
[13:07] <gonzo_> only if they require it in the permission they give
[13:08] <gonzo_> usually youb just get a NOTAM issued for a place and time. And you just go for it
[13:08] <OH7HJ> LeoBodnar, you were worried about 70 cm Tx interfering with GPS. At least the 200 mW PMR Tx did not interfere with the GPS in our experiment, although their aerials were side by side.
[13:08] <eroomde> for us we have to give 24hrs and 5 mins headsup of a launch
[13:08] <eroomde> to the local tower
[13:08] <eroomde> because we're within a couple of miles of cambridge airport
[13:08] <eroomde> modify all the above to past tense
[13:09] <jcoxon> yeah we just give 5mins before launch notice from Preston St Mary
[13:09] <nats`> gonzo_ ok
[13:09] <nats`> but even for a party ballon in plastic with postcard you need to have an autorisation from the police (prefecture but don't know how to say it in english)
[13:10] <f5vnf> local government office
[13:10] <jcoxon> isn't the balloon in Lunar_Lander land
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[13:12] <LeoBodnar> tks OH7HJ
[13:13] <DL1SGP> it does not seem to have uploaded the last two:
[13:13] <DL1SGP> $$B-18,813,130950,53.0366,8.5024,7187,9,1.44*6446
[13:13] <DL1SGP> $$B-18,814,131105,53.0562,8.5056,7152,8,1.44*3134
[13:14] <jcoxon> DL1SGP, on there for me
[13:14] <DL1SGP> ok
[13:14] <jcoxon> the 131105 one is on the map with your name
[13:14] <DL1SGP> reloading snus
[13:15] <DL1SGP> done works again
[13:15] <nats`> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/reglementation4m.htm <= for people reading french
[13:15] <nats`> gonzo_ if I udnerstand the NOTAM is mandatory for heavy and medium balloon
[13:17] <Laurenceb> what happened to B-18 overnight?
[13:17] <fsphil> jcoxon: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/thor.tar.gz
[13:17] <fsphil> think that's the latest version
[13:17] <gonzo_> in the UK, for any balloon greater than 2mtrs in and linear dimension, yes NOTAM is required
[13:18] <DL1SGP> s/n -4db now
[13:18] <gonzo_> (and that is at any point in it's flight)
[13:18] <fsphil> permission (or exception from a rule preventing it) is required
[13:18] <fsphil> from what I understand the notam isn't required, but you get one anyway
[13:18] <gonzo_> prob more accurate phil, ta
[13:18] <LeoBodnar> it was resting Laurenceb
[13:19] <Laurenceb> it landed?!
[13:19] <DL1SGP> yes
[13:19] <Laurenceb> how much free lift?
[13:19] <fsphil> looks like yea
[13:19] <LeoBodnar> 4.5 grams
[13:19] <Laurenceb> bad weather?
[13:19] <fsphil> or else some kind person re-filled it
[13:19] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[13:19] <DL1SGP> it was worse than british weather :D
[13:19] <Laurenceb> interesting
[13:20] <Laurenceb> any freecad users here?
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[13:22] <LeoBodnar> IRC is distraction - replaced the wrong chip on the PCB :D
[13:22] <DL1SGP> heh
[13:22] <DL1SGP> B-19 pcb?
[13:23] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, nice
[13:24] <f5vnf> nats`: thanks, have to get the dictionary out now
[13:25] <nats`> f5vnf it's the french law so not sure you need it :)
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[13:26] <nats`> anyway fren civil aviation advise to contract a protection for damage that the balloon could do
[13:26] <nats`> ....
[13:26] <nats`> wouhou
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[13:27] <DL1SGP> new max. altitude for B-18
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[13:28] <f5vnf> close to the test flight path for airbus in toulouse , they may not appreaciate just doing a LEO
[13:30] <nats`> uhhmm in theory you need to obtain authorisation from all the country you may cross....
[13:30] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[13:30] <eroomde> guess how much notice people take of that
[13:32] <fsphil> the iaa said I didn't need permission to enter their airspace
[13:32] <fsphil> they did ask that I inform them anyway
[13:32] <LeoBodnar> DL1SGP: http://leobodnar.com/files/B-19_B-20_B-21.jpg
[13:35] <nats`> there is something weird for light balloon there are not so much details concerning the autorisation request
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[13:36] <DL1SGP> hilarious LeoBodnar
[13:37] <nats`> f5vnf <= the complete law text concerning the balloon in france if interested
[13:37] <nats`> http://ballonsolaire.free.fr/Textes%20Aviation%20Civile.pdf
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[13:41] <f5vnf> nats`: merci
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[13:49] <nats`> de rien ;)
[13:49] <PA1SDB> Dial and tone B-18 pse ?
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[13:50] <DL1SGP> Goedendag Peter, I have it on 26.959MHz and my dial is set to 1308
[13:50] <DL1SGP> erl
[13:50] <DL1SGP> tone at 1308 :P
[13:50] Action: DL1SGP needs moar coffee
[13:50] <PA1SDB> DL1SGP Tnx, B-18 must be in view almost here :-)
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[13:50] <PA1SDB> Understand :-)
[13:51] <eroomde> DL1SGP, i gave up coffee today
[13:51] <eroomde> this is going to turn out to be an awful week, I suspect
[13:51] <DL1SGP> hee Peter, yeah you should hear it in Appingedam :D
[13:51] <DL1SGP> it is transmitting tlm now
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[13:52] <DL1SGP> end of tlm transmission
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[13:53] <PA1SDB> Seems that my Mini Whip does not work well on 26 mc
[13:53] <DL1SGP> I tried various antennas Peter, best result was with the vertical dipole
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[14:04] Nick change: LeoBodnar_ -> LeoBodnar
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[14:12] <PA1SDB> Unfortunately nothing here at the antennas I have available.... :-(
[14:12] <PA1SDB> ....and it is so close...
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[14:13] <PA1SDB> Yesterday very clear via WebSDR in twente NL, but that pager made RX impossible... :-(
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[14:15] <DL1SGP> thanks for trying PA1SDB, it is getting weaker and weaker here now, but I still get frames decoded
[14:17] <DL1SGP> s/n -16db now
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[14:22] <PA1SDB> DL1SGP if a 26 MHz balloon fly's by daily, I will build a good antenna. Unfortunately there was no time to build one...
[14:23] <DL1SGP> heh
[14:24] <DL1SGP> the big question will be if it will stop falling at 5500 or not, I am afraid that I loose contact before that
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[14:25] <PA1SDB> LeoBodnar I like al these frequent airborne balloons, but I think you get more listeners and "better prepared listeners" when you announce flight's earlier...
[14:26] <M6GTG_Andrew> OH7HJ: Thanks for the replies earlier, sorry had to leave keyboard
[14:27] <M6GTG_Andrew> on the subject of insurance, do all launchers get it or take the risk?
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[14:27] <mfa298> I think most people doing it for fun just take a risk.
[14:28] <mfa298> from when its been talked about before I think in general people have found getting public liability insurance is very difficult as an individual
[14:28] <M6GTG_Andrew> okay, just might be involved in a launch with a club as part of a festival next year
[14:29] <HA6NN> ejcspii: Hello :)
[14:29] <mfa298> I know in the bits of looking I did a while ago for something else it was very difficult to find anything out there for individuals.
[14:29] <ejcspii> HA6NN good morning there :)
[14:29] <DL1SGP> 5693m now on broken decode
[14:30] <mfa298> it might be worth talking to the club / festival organisers as it might be something that can be easily added to any insurance they have.
[14:30] <M6GTG_Andrew> mfa298: I understand, might be able to get cover through the festival, will need to investigate
[14:30] Action: SpeedEvil_ ponders.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil_> Might it almost be worth forming an actual club?
[14:30] <HA6NN> Thanks! We have a sad and cloudí day. No signals on 26959 kHz. :(
[14:30] Nick change: SpeedEvil_ -> SpeedEvil
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[14:31] <SpeedEvil> On the other hand - do insurers take account 'I did it 150 times before with no insurance'
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[14:31] <mfa298> if we were an actual club then it might be possible to look at getting some sort of generic policy although I can imagine it might be somewhat expensive
[14:32] <M6GTG_Andrew> would love to do a launch, just the real fear it would land on someone or something knowing my luck
[14:32] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: n=150 is not hugely compelling
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> M6GTG_Andrew: Out of 200 (?) launches - one got blown into a car.
[14:32] <DL1SGP> lost signal
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: True
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> (with no damage)
[14:33] <PA1SDB> DL1SGP :-(
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[14:33] <adamgreig> M6GTG_Andrew: have you seen the very recent mailing list thread on insurance?
[14:34] <M6GTG_Andrew> adamgreig: not read it in depth, will check it out
[14:34] <Upu> I actually have a mail from someone who quoted £50 per launch
[14:34] <adamgreig> wow
[14:34] <Upu> but would need to cover 20 launches
[14:34] <Upu> but
[14:34] <mfa298> with looking at predictions and making sure you've got a suitably large parachute you should be able to time the launch so that it stays away from populated areas meaning less chance of hitting people / property
[14:34] <Upu> I may engage with him and see what I can do
[14:34] <adamgreig> that's surprisingly reasonable
[14:34] <Upu> yes it was for schools
[14:34] <adamgreig> bet he'll stop offering that after the first incident :P
[14:35] <adamgreig> aaah
[14:35] <adamgreig> yea ok then
[14:35] <adamgreig> a lot of schools seem to have decided that their public liability insurance covers it
[14:35] <Upu> and only 2mil PL
[14:35] <adamgreig> after chatting with their insurers
[14:35] <DL1SGP> 5743m
[14:35] <M6GTG_Andrew> how much to cover Leo's launches and the risk of setting off Russian early warning system?
[14:36] <DL1SGP> and some position $$B-8,868,143511,53.9935,8.4836,666,7,1.42*ea=a2
[14:36] <gonzo_> there is balloon event insurance, covering 3rd party. It seems to be aimed at public attending the launch, but would be interesting to see the words
[14:36] <M6GTG_Andrew> adamgreig: that is good to know, we were thinking of involving a school with the launch
[14:37] <Upu> M6GTG_Andrew if the russian early warning system can't differentiate between a party balloon and an ICBM we have bigger issues :)
[14:37] <HA6NN> dl-fldigi says here when it is receiving a carrier like signal: <<2013-10-10T14:36Z DominoEX 8 @ 25959000+1488>>
[14:38] <gonzo_> would be a hell of a party!
[14:38] <M6GTG_Andrew> Upu: anyone contacted Nena see if she wants to reissue the single "99 foil balloons"
[14:39] <gonzo_> do they go 'bye' ?
[14:40] <nats`> :D
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[14:40] <eroomde> there are UK early warning systems too
[14:41] <eroomde> there have been notable uk hab flights that have directly overflown early warning radars in the uk, without bothering to file for a notam
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[14:44] <M6GTG_Andrew> eroomde: fylingdales?
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[14:45] <eroomde> yes
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[14:47] <gonzo_> whether a track on a radar would be linked to a NOTAM males away is probably doubtful
[14:47] <gonzo_> miles
[14:47] <M6GTG_Andrew> lol, just seen this, think Leo's balloon will go unnoticed http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2280547/How-did-Russias-early-warning-miss-meteorite-Nuclear-missile-detecting-radars-saw-coming.html
[14:48] <eroomde> gonzo_, nope, it was noticed
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[14:49] <Maxell> DL1SGP: you did well
[14:49] <Maxell> DL1SGP: credit to the team :P
[14:49] <gonzo_> but would they have linked the radar target with a notam that coudl have been issues for a launch 100's of miles away
[14:49] <tr0lli> b-18 is also amazing
[14:49] <DL1SGP> hehe thanks, after floating on the airwaves it now gonna float on the sea
[14:50] <DL1SGP> I still hear when it is transmitting but not getting useful decodes any more, shame, bye bye B-18
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> good tracking DL1SGP
[14:52] <eroomde> what kind of dom is it?
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[14:55] <HA6NN> LeoBodnar: Hello, May I know where can B-18 signal be found within fl-digi bandwidth?
[14:56] <LeoBodnar> with 26.959MHz USB you will find it around 1270Hz
[14:56] <HA6NN> I can hear a very weak RTTY-like signal by ear...
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[14:56] <HA6NN> RRRRRRRRRRR
[14:57] <HA6NN> there I am: <<2013-10-10T14:57Z DominoEX 8 @ 25959000+1270>>
[14:58] <DL1SGP> OK time to work a bit on outgoing QSL cards
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[15:00] <DL1SGP> 98
[15:01] <DL1SGP> lol computer stop typing things
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[15:02] <Maxell> DL1SGP: that sounds creepy
[15:03] <DL1SGP> what does sound creepy?
[15:03] <DL1SGP> :-D
[15:04] <DL1SGP> 98 would have been close to the number of cards I gonna have to send out until end of year
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[15:10] <HA6NN> DL1SGP: Hello, Forget paper QSL-cards! Join LotW!
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[15:10] <oh3kav> B-18 seems to be approaching the Sylt island. Isn't that one of the places where rocket hobbyist do their things?
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[15:14] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: have you used 90cm qualatex latex balloon before?
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[15:17] <Maxell> HA6NN: it's part of the hobby :)
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[15:17] <Maxell> (I suppose :P)
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[15:18] <G4AIU-Eugene> GA all
[15:19] <HA6NN> Maxell: It's up to you.
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[15:21] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, is that steves normal one?
[15:21] <chrisstubbs> sorry latex
[15:21] <chrisstubbs> err let me check
[15:22] <chrisstubbs> I have used the 100g pawan ones
[15:24] <chrisstubbs> and some of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260816389660?var=560036877423&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 which I didnt seal off very well and leaked
[15:25] <tweetBot> @daveake: Chase Car #RaspberryPi nearly done - snazzy screen showing where the balloon is, plus upload of chase car position #UKHAS. batc to come
[15:26] <tweetBot> @daveake: Forgot the pretty pic http://t.co/jn7UFbz3eU #raspberrypi #UKHAS
[15:27] <DL1SGP> HA6NN: I keep up the tradition of paper QSL with stations that appreciate it, for others I can use the more modern forms of sending electronic QSL, however I like going through physical cards here and then
[15:28] <DL1SGP> and it is a good way of showing things to visitors when they ask about the hobby, something they can take into hands physically
[15:28] <DL1SGP> and it never hurts to give out one of my cards as a little present which in the end might lead them to contact me for further info :)
[15:30] <oh3kav> DL1SGP: you send cards via the bureau, I assume?
[15:30] <HA6NN> DL1SGP: You are right. Of course I have a lot of cards to show which arrived since 1970...I have started using eqsl.cc, LotW, Cloblog and hamlog.eu a few years before.
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[15:31] <Rebounder-SM3ULC> B18 going down again?
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[15:32] <DL1SGP> hej brian, welcome back from work
[15:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thanks, long day
[15:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> not hearing B-18
[15:32] <eroomde> the language-appropriate salutations are noticed
[15:32] <DL1SGP> it went down again for a bit skinny dipping in north sea :)
[15:33] <DL1SGP> eroomde: trying to make everyone feel home :)
[15:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> last altitude says 6228m ?
[15:33] <HA6NN> By the way I can hear only two CW beacons in the 10 m band. There is LU2ERC/BCN from GF15ad (Buenos Aires) on 28193 kHz and HA5BHA from 28225 kHz from JN97ko...
[15:33] <DL1SGP> I had partial decodes where it went down to 5500
[15:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh ok
[15:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no need to race home then :-)
[15:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> was it 26.959 dead?
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[15:37] <PE2G> OZ1SKY_Brian: Yes
[15:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tnx
[15:37] <PE2G> OZ1SKY_Brian: No drift
[15:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Leo dont play with drift, hi
[15:40] <DL1SGP> heh
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[15:46] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: I have a few of the ones like your eBay link, thinking about launching one. How did you seal them ?
[15:47] <chrisstubbs> i used one cable tie
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> it may have worked better with 2
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Are you sure it has leaked?
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> Ah, so it did not burst then?
[15:49] Action: Laurenceb has finally done something useful with freecad
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[15:54] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/i0WJxkG.png
[15:54] <Laurenceb> first usable CAd program ive found :P
[15:55] <Laurenceb> now i can design alien mushrooms
[15:55] <eroomde> solidworks Laurenceb :)
[15:55] <eroomde> i would love to show you what's in y solidworks window atm
[15:55] <eroomde> but i'd have to kill you
[15:55] <eroomde> in my*
[15:55] <DL1SGP> great Laurenceb
[15:57] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/wp/?p=366
[15:58] <chrisstubbs> yes it had leaked, when we recovere it it just about fitted in my car door
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what is it?
[15:58] <chrisstubbs> when we got home it fitted out easily
[16:01] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: vacuum forming mold
[16:01] <Laurenceb> about the only useful thing you can do with 3d printing :P
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I mean program
[16:01] <Laurenceb> freeCAD
[16:01] <Laurenceb> sorry - i was ranting about it easier and forgot to say again :P
[16:02] <Laurenceb> i tried blender and wings3d first :-S
[16:02] <arko> Solidworks is the best. No more arguing
[16:02] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:02] <Laurenceb> but its not free :D
[16:03] <arko> Sure...
[16:03] <nats`> I love pro engineer but not free too
[16:03] <arko> Good software is rarely free
[16:03] <Laurenceb> so theres going to be hundreds of these on a drum
[16:03] <Laurenceb> then polyurethane elastomer goes past and gets formed continuously
[16:04] <Laurenceb> not the most amazing thing but its fun to watch
[16:05] <eroomde> i hate pro engineer
[16:05] <eroomde> hate it
[16:05] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[16:05] <eroomde> hate
[16:05] <Laurenceb> i hate blender :P
[16:06] Action: DL1SGP gets his flamethrower and hands it to Laurenceb
[16:06] <eroomde> blender isn't a cad program
[16:06] <Laurenceb> exactly
[16:07] <Laurenceb> all the reprap nutters use it for cad
[16:07] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: I remember your lock problems and the disappointing low alt
[16:07] <LeoBodnar> Do they burst at 1.2m dia?
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[16:08] <chrisstubbs> in my experiment they did
[16:09] <chrisstubbs> i will try another 100g pawan launch this weekend if the conditions hold
[16:09] <LeoBodnar> Have you reached any conclusion on why it burst so low?
[16:10] <nats`> eroomde you break my heart
[16:10] <nats`> please love pro engineer
[16:10] <nats`> :D
[16:10] <eroomde> i haven't used it for about 6 years to be fair
[16:10] <eroomde> it seemed much more complicated than solidwroks to do anything
[16:10] <nats`> to be faire I stay on the last wildfire release
[16:10] <nats`> it changes to PTC Creo sometime ago
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> All CAD software sucks
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> i forgot to shorten the payload line after filling and steve thinks the paylod could have swung up and hit the balloon
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> at least its not autocad
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[16:11] <nats`> autocrap that's the real name :)
[16:12] <LeoBodnar> so too long and too short are safe but somewhere in the middle it's the most dangerous
[16:12] <LeoBodnar> Too long is outside 2m
[16:12] <eroomde> i'm beginning to get a headache
[16:12] <eroomde> might be screen
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[16:12] <eroomde> but might be coffee withdrawal
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> yeah im going to try it right on the balloon neck this time
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> I am curious
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[16:13] <LeoBodnar> as to how that works considering He leaks
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[16:14] <arko> eroomde: just drink coffee
[16:14] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, have you tried flying hydrogen?
[16:14] <eroomde> arko, NO
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> not inside the neck, tied tight up to it
[16:14] <eroomde> i've quit
[16:14] <nats`> eroomde replace coffee by codeine
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> Not yet, savouring it
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> Manning up
[16:14] <arko> Hahahahahahahahahaha
[16:14] <arko> Lirs
[16:14] <arko> Lies
[16:14] <eroomde> no srsly
[16:14] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[16:14] <eroomde> i have
[16:14] <nats`> eroomde you quit like I quit smoking everyday :p
[16:15] <eroomde> haven't had coffee today
[16:15] <eroomde> gonna give up for at least a month
[16:15] <arko> Woah
[16:15] <nats`> you had tachychardia ?
[16:15] <arko> You ok man?
[16:15] <nats`> I quit coffee long time ago because of that
[16:15] <eroomde> nats`, is that funny beats?
[16:15] <arko> When someone says eroomde, i think two things, rockets and coffee
[16:16] <eroomde> if so then yes, in the early days of coffee drinking i often had funny beats
[16:16] <nats`> caffeine powered rocket \o/
[16:16] <eroomde> but that subsised after a year or so
[16:16] <nats`> eroomde yes but funny beats are more extra systole
[16:16] <eroomde> arko, have been getting bad acid reflux the last few weeks
[16:16] <nats`> like 2 little poom and a big one
[16:16] <eroomde> and generally feeling on edge
[16:16] <number10> stress
[16:16] <arko> :( i have GERD i know wthe feeling
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> Is there a smart IRC software that lists each participant comments in a different column and cleverly deduces what it might have been response to and links them with thin dotted lines?
[16:17] <nats`> if so it's usually not a problem
[16:17] <eroomde> number10, indeed, though i'm not sure if caffeine helps
[16:17] <number10> probably not
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> We have computing power to do this for at least 40 years by now
[16:17] <nats`> caffeine is bad for any heart condition
[16:17] <number10> you need to not do so many long hours
[16:17] <nats`> but sleeping is good too :p
[16:17] <nats`> I have funny beats like you say everytime I sleep too little
[16:17] <eroomde> i do quite a lot of sleeping
[16:18] <eroomde> well anyway, i will give it up for at least 4 weeks
[16:18] <number10> good idea I think
[16:18] <nats`> uhhmm one thing
[16:18] <nats`> take some magnesium
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> sleep needs energy
[16:18] <nats`> that's not a joke
[16:18] <arko> Good luck dude
[16:18] <eroomde> might take 2 weeks to withdraw
[16:18] <eroomde> timed it so i can take the brunt of it this weekend
[16:18] <nats`> magnesium helped me a lot with those funny beats like you said
[16:19] <HA6NN> LeoBodnar: I had been usig mIRC long ago. http://www.mirc.com/
[16:19] <LeoBodnar> Burning magnesium helped me to go through teenage years
[16:19] <number10> burning powedered magnesium with kmno4
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[16:20] <eroomde> a decent initiator for thermite
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> Classic number10
[16:20] <eroomde> for rocket igniters in low pressure / high altitude stages
[16:20] <number10> signs of a mispent yout LeoBodnar
[16:20] <number10> +h
[16:20] <arko> LeoBodnar: I use KVIRC
[16:20] <arko> Best one i could find
[16:20] <nats`> eroomde so now in place of burning it eat it !
[16:20] <eroomde> banananas
[16:21] <Upu> mirc vote here
[16:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> How did 26mhz preform vs 13 and 434 ?
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> I remember using bicycle pump for rocket body
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> We never found it
[16:21] <eroomde> irssi
[16:21] <nats`> was using irssi until I get more than 15 channels open :p
[16:22] <arko> irssi is the best for linux
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> I can understand teenagers these days. Life is much harder
[16:23] <arko> Lol
[16:23] <nats`> oO
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> No magnesium or KMnO4 easily available
[16:24] <eroomde> rockets are harder to do too
[16:24] <nats`> ahh you mean itneresting life
[16:24] <nats`> most of the teenager watch tv reality show
[16:24] <nats`> :p
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[16:25] <M6GTG_Andrew> LeoBodnar: arko: Bit of a delay but can also recommend KVIrc
[16:26] <number10> you cant even buy sodium chlorate to weedkill a drive because of terorist activities
[16:27] <eroomde> ebay is not bad though
[16:27] <eroomde> for small qtys of chemicals
[16:27] <bertrik> nice to see B-18 remained airborne
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> I think I was just 14 or 15
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[16:29] <LeoBodnar> We just started learning chemistry and that was enough to quickly calculate required molar quantity of stuff
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[16:30] <la3eq> any news on B-18?
[16:31] <number10> didnt realise there was another B- up
[16:32] <la3eq> it was on its way north 2 hours ago...but bo reports since..
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[16:35] <la3eq> B-18 was 6200meters high...now?? who knows?
[16:36] <LeoBodnar> number10: It was yesterday's B-18
[16:36] <LeoBodnar> It landed in Germany, spent the night there and took off again this morning
[16:37] <arko> The hotel will bill you later
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[16:37] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
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[16:41] <number10> oh wow - that good
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[16:42] <LeoBodnar> B-17 did it in Finland
[16:42] <number10> been working to much and not looking. you have the art of foil balloons
[16:42] <LeoBodnar> It B-comes a HAB it.
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[16:43] <number10> I dont think I'll bother relaunching my 30g nanu payload
[16:43] <la3eq> ;-)
[16:43] <number10> it would be a disappointment after all these floats
[16:46] <LeoBodnar> Disappointment? Why?
[16:46] <LeoBodnar> The last thing I need is to discourage fellow HABers :-/
[16:47] <LeoBodnar> 30g should fair pretty well. B-18 is 22 grams
[16:48] <LeoBodnar> *fare
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[16:51] <number10> It was a single batch of foil balloons and all three failed - I may try one of the other balloons I have
[16:54] <LeoBodnar> I am facing similar worries. From this new batch none of the balloons floated well. So it's either weather or balloons. Would be nice to have a standard test conditions for balloons to check each new batch.
[16:54] <arko> It should inspire :)
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[17:04] <LeoBodnar> till later!
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[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> Upu I was looking at the Habduino code for a little inspiration and I'm not sure what these dynamic modes are. Are they something to do with flight mode?
[17:29] <Upu> flight mode should be called dynamic model
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[17:30] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/u-blox6_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_%28GPS.G6-SW-10018%29.pdf
[17:30] <Upu> see page 1
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> ta
[17:30] <Upu> actual page 1
[17:31] <Upu> 2 Navigation Configuration Settings Description
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> I'm finding creating the code for NORB very difficult. It's far harder than I thought to do it on an AVR
[17:31] <Upu> go one step at a time
[17:32] <Upu> don't try do it all at once
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> what's the best first step assuming I've done little C and nothing with an AVR ever? :)
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[17:32] <Upu> make the radio work with an Arduino
[17:32] <Upu> change things play about
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> I have no radio
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> :/
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[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> I think having a mess around with some components would be a good thing to do, but I kind of don't have any HAB components at all :P So I'm just guessing atm
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FYZFAuhFV4 - Why tightening shit up is important.
[17:35] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13: do you have an arduino? and something you can hook to an arduino (gps, thermometer, etc.)?
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[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> I have an Arduino and some sensors but nothing like radios and GPS
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13> I've already made some stuff like turning relays on to turn 12V fans on when it gets too hot and things like that. But I kinda want to get working on my NORB boards
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[17:36] <Upu> I'll chase them about the radios tomorrow
[17:37] <Vostok> are there any further info of Leo's hardware than what's on his page?
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13> cool, I look forward to it
[17:37] <bertrik> SpeedEvil: bah, that's ugly
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[17:38] <ibanezmatt13> that's nasty
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[17:39] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, I tried to use solder wick to take off the ublox chip from the pi n chips board, didn't work
[17:39] <ibanezmatt13> I got the resistors off ok
[17:40] <chris__> is WSMETEOR just testing? I am close by
[17:40] <Upu> no you won't get the ublox off with wick
[17:40] <Upu> chris__ testing F5 should be gone now
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> I guess hot air? Don't have that
[17:40] <chris__> ok thanks
[17:40] <Upu> hot air
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> http://sdrv.ms/GMHxll
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[17:42] <ibanezmatt13> I think the hardest bits are going to be the tps61201, the tmp102 and the small pins inside the micro sd. Everything else I *think* should be manageable
[17:43] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, yo
[17:43] <ibanezmatt13> Hi :)
[17:43] <eroomde> pm
[17:43] <stilldavid> fsphil: just found this: http://stilldavid.com/stuff/skitch/_SparkFun_Multimeter_with_David_Stillman__YouTube_20131010_114346.jpg
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[17:49] <enkidu> OZ1SKY_Brian: any signs of 18?
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[17:52] <arko> Hahahaha
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[18:09] <LeoBodnar> Is it performing to its full capcity?
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[18:14] <LeoBodnar> arko: was it about the multimeter? :D
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[18:23] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[18:25] <x-f> station count fluctuations on snus, seven launches (iirc them all) - http://i.imgur.com/FCe8JeF.png
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[18:30] <OH7FXK> any balloons?
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> cool x-f ! Please make one webpage with all these cool stats link
[18:33] <x-f> i'm bad at numbers that's why i need to "see" them :)
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[18:34] <Willdude123_> Hi
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[18:35] <LeoBodnar> same here, I can't "see" a million
[18:36] <Willdude123_> LeoBodnar, seen the Arctic circle contest? I see you have a handicap :)
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[18:38] Nick change: Willdude123_ -> Willdude123
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> Yes Willdude123_, mustn't grumble
[18:40] <Willdude123> Ping Upu do you mind having a brief look at my homework so far?
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[18:51] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: ping
[18:52] <jcoxon> hey LeoBodnar
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[18:52] <LeoBodnar> hey James, just looked at the arctic rules: You need a link where it says "If you'd like to contribute to the prize please get in touch"
[18:53] <DL7AD> good evening
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> and also "enthusiasts in other countries can enter after discussion with the challenge organisers"
[18:53] <jcoxon> i'll put a contact section at hte bottom
[18:53] <jcoxon> rather than an email link
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> yeah, anything will do as it looks kind of dead end if you arrived on it from search or email
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[18:54] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, shall i put you as a irc contact
[18:54] <jcoxon> as well?
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[18:55] <LeoBodnar> yeah, why not? I am chuffed
[18:55] <jcoxon> i'm avoiding email addresses
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> Maybe just IRC channel link then?
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> I have 52787 email in my inbox (40697 unread)
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> Yeah I think IRC link is best
[18:57] <Willdude123> Slightly off topic but why was there the need for 2 voyager space craft?
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> I agree, the should have been 18
[18:58] <Upu> flight path probably Willdude123
[18:58] <fsphil> stilldavid: apologies :)
[18:58] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
[18:58] <stilldavid> hah, no it's great :)
[18:58] <stilldavid> more like this on youtube, please!
[18:58] <Upu> V2 flew by Nepture and Uranus
[18:59] <Upu> V1 couldn't do that
[18:59] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[18:59] <eroomde> Willdude123, they could visit different stuff
[18:59] <Willdude123> Was V1 designed just to go as far as it could into the solar system?
[18:59] <Willdude123> (and beyond)
[18:59] <jcoxon> fsphil, just working on Thor
[18:59] <Upu> no they used gravitational slingshots to visit the furthest reaches
[19:00] <fsphil> ooh any luck?
[19:00] <Upu> thats my weekend project
[19:00] <jcoxon> forgot that i was going to use the si570 rather than DAC
[19:00] <eroomde> uing gravitational slingshots is your weekend project?
[19:00] <jcoxon> so what was the tone spacing maths again?
[19:00] <Upu> no THOR
[19:00] <fsphil> it's samplerate / tone length
[19:00] <fsphil> for thor11 it's 11025 / 1024
[19:00] <Upu> same as DominoEX I think
[19:01] <fsphil> 10.xxxx hz
[19:01] <Willdude123> eroomde, it's homework
[19:01] <Willdude123> I'm a bit stumped https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2ki41-zdyfBQkZ5bTlncGVjcWM/edit?usp=drive_web
[19:01] <Rebounder-SM3ULC>
[19:01] <jcoxon> hmmm might need a scope then
[19:02] <Upu> Willdude123 what was the homework text ?
[19:02] <Upu> i.e the question
[19:02] <Willdude123> How are Voyager I and II still travelling?
[19:03] <fsphil> I couldn't seem to get accurate enough timing info out of the rigol, but it looked close enough to the 10.xhz it needs
[19:03] <fsphil> I think the frequency shift not being exact is what killed it for me
[19:03] <Upu> ok so how is due to the lack of friction in a vacuum
[19:03] <eroomde> momentum!
[19:03] <Upu> they will carry on forever unless the encouter something
[19:03] <Upu> what eroomde said
[19:04] <Upu> how can we still communicate with them
[19:04] <Upu> RTG and big dishes
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[19:04] <Upu> basically
[19:04] <fsphil> if the sun was more massive or they didn't have enough momentum, they'd eventually fall back
[19:04] <Upu> "science"
[19:04] <Willdude123> Yeah. I included stuff about that.
[19:04] <Willdude123> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GOZyRTG-Czb93sE2cUl94oJGWmgJO_zy3hCDRqr3SQA/edit
[19:04] <Willdude123> The live version ^
[19:04] <bertrik> fsphil: I looked a bit at thor too
[19:04] <eroomde> Willdude123, you'll want to mentione escape velocity
[19:04] <eroomde> for the solar system
[19:04] <fsphil> thor does seem like a good mode for this
[19:05] <Willdude123> Because live streaming your homework is the new phrase.
[19:05] <fsphil> *hab
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> I wish out school did homeworks like that
[19:05] <Willdude123> *craze :)
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> our*
[19:05] <Upu> I think there are two answers Willdude123
[19:05] <Upu> off you go :)
[19:05] <bertrik> one thing I found a bit silly about thor is the use of two different varicode sets in thor for the primary and secondary messages
[19:05] <eroomde> right gtg
[19:05] <eroomde> good luck Willdude123
[19:05] <fsphil> the existance of a secondary set is a bit silly tbh
[19:05] <Upu> and I don't think mobile phones use 20w but I might be wrong
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> Voyagers will evaporate
[19:05] <Willdude123> How stuff works said so
[19:06] <Upu> everything will evaporate
[19:06] <fsphil> oh stop being all Brian Cox
[19:06] <Upu> to quote brian cox
[19:06] <fsphil> the end of the universe is a while away yet :)
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[19:06] <Upu> "everything....*ponders*.... everything will turn to shit"
[19:06] <Willdude123> Oh it's 2 watts.
[19:06] <Willdude123> Wow
[19:06] <fsphil> lol
[19:06] <Willdude123> Upu, language :)
[19:07] <Upu> Willdude123 elders
[19:07] <Willdude123> A million, billion trillion years inside our Earth's atmosphere.
[19:07] <Willdude123> Oh sorry
[19:07] <Upu> now go do your home work
[19:07] <Upu> :)
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[19:08] <oh3ne> 20 watts is the highest power class for GSM900, none were made afaik
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> Upu is kinematic calculation done at launch still stands or is it pretty much let's see what happens now?
[19:08] <oh3ne> some companies made few 8 watt mobiles and transportables
[19:09] <oh3ne> and evening to all :)
[19:09] <Upu> do what LeoBodnar ? :)
[19:09] <Willdude123> I'm stuck. I don't know what to say after this
[19:09] <Upu> evening oh3ne
[19:09] <Upu> ok Willdude123
[19:09] <Upu> you have 2 answers to the "how" question
[19:10] <Upu> introduce
[19:10] <Upu> detail each one
[19:10] <Upu> closing paragraph
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> Were their trajectories predicted as far as today ?
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> At launch
[19:10] <Upu> are you still on about Voyager ?
[19:11] <Upu> if so I doubt it
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[19:11] <Upu> however they must still be working it out so they know where to point the DSN
[19:11] <fsphil> they tweaked the trajectory as it was flying
[19:11] <fsphil> to get it near interesting objects
[19:11] <Upu> interesting factoid
[19:12] <Upu> Voyager 2 I think can only be received in the Southern Hemisphere
[19:12] <Willdude123> Have I just covered the first answer to the how question?
[19:12] <Upu> go answer the second one Willdude123
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> Unknown unknowns have distorted trajectories
[19:12] <Upu> momentum
[19:12] <Upu> friction
[19:12] <Upu> vacuum
[19:12] <Upu> then come back
[19:13] <M6GTG_Andrew> wasn't there some unexpected velocity change on Voyager not predicted by the science when it was launched but has been explained since?
[19:13] <Upu> yeah not sure its been explained
[19:14] <fsphil> was that Pioneer?
[19:14] <OH7FXK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwbxhvREK8
[19:14] <fsphil> the Pioneer Anomoly
[19:14] <OH7FXK> BMWs are for kids ;)
[19:14] <fsphil> or however that's spelled
[19:14] <Willdude123> Upu, how's that?
[19:14] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly
[19:14] <Upu> how is what ?
[19:14] <M6GTG_Andrew> might be, something in the memory banks probably corrupted
[19:15] <Willdude123> It so far.
[19:15] <fsphil> it was explained as a heat thing
[19:15] <M6GTG_Andrew> my memory banks that is not pioneer's
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[19:15] <Upu> oh yes they did explain it I think
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[19:15] <Upu> it was due to reflected heat from the RTG or something
[19:15] <fsphil> yea
[19:15] <fsphil> no interesting physics going on sadly
[19:15] <Willdude123> Err now for friction. What do I have to say say about friction? *somebody unplugs microphone*
[19:16] <Willdude123> *say
[19:16] <fsphil> well interesting, but not new physics
[19:16] <Willdude123> And that's all I have to say about friction
[19:17] <Willdude123> Upu not too sure about friction
[19:17] <Upu> http://www.uhf-satcom.com/misc/datasheet/dh2va.pdf
[19:17] <Upu> thats why its home work Willdude123
[19:17] <Upu> the idea is you go learn
[19:17] <Upu> clue "vacuum"
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[19:18] <Willdude123> Space is a frictionless vacuum, so no air resistance.
[19:18] <Willdude123> So any object will keep on going, until a planet captures it within it's gravitational pull
[19:18] <x-f> anything, not specifically a planet
[19:19] <Upu> star
[19:19] <Upu> black hole
[19:19] <Upu> I'd refer to it as a source of gravity or something
[19:19] <fsphil> or it hits something
[19:19] <Upu> or when the aliens find it
[19:19] <fsphil> in which case friction goes up quite a bit :)
[19:21] <Willdude123> Right done momentum friction and vacuum
[19:23] <oh3ne> leobodnar, may I suggest circular polarisation for the UHF antennas, something like a quadrifilar helix?
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> Do you have a design links? oh3ne
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[19:24] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: QFH antenna
[19:24] <oh3ne> we were listening to B-17 with a horizontally polarised yagi at 400 kms or so and nothing on a vertical even though the balloon was already in Finland
[19:25] <Upu> http://makezine.com/2011/06/30/how-to-build-the-worlds-lightest-quadrifilar-helix-antenna/
[19:25] <Hes> I handed over my 10-element 70cm yagi to a young gentleman here at the club. He lives ~20 km away from the last position of B-17.
[19:26] <enkidu> http://jcoppens.com/ant/qfh/calc.en.php
[19:26] <fsphil> brian cox talking about the moon on bbc four
[19:26] <Willdude123> Upu would you say that it's finished?
[19:26] <Upu> link WillDuckworth
[19:26] <Upu> sorry
[19:26] <Upu> Willdude123
[19:27] <Willdude123> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GOZyRTG-Czb93sE2cUl94oJGWmgJO_zy3hCDRqr3SQA/edit#
[19:27] <Willdude123> Feel free to edit it if you want to, though it is my homework and I should do it myself
[19:27] <Upu> Well the title is wrong for starters
[19:27] <Upu> I'm not doing your home work
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[19:28] <Upu> might want to put why they don't use solar power
[19:29] <Willdude123> Upu of course, that's perfectly reasonable
[19:29] <Upu> but yeah its ok
[19:30] <Upu> personally I'd rearrange it a little so you're answering the question set
[19:30] <Willdude123> They don't use solar panels because, it's leaving the solar system and the power would decrease with the square of the distance?
[19:31] <Willdude123> Should I remove the design of the spacecraft section?
[19:31] <Upu> only put in that which is relevant
[19:32] <Willdude123> It's not all too relevant, I suppose the power is
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[19:32] <Willdude123> And the transmitter.
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[19:32] <Willdude123> I'll move it to the end
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[19:34] <Willdude123> I think I just deleted a load of it by accident
[19:35] <Willdude123> Wait no. They were images
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[19:37] <Willdude123> Right. I think that's OK now
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[19:39] <HA6NN> ejcspii: Hi, You have mail.
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[19:40] Nick change: oh3kav1 -> oh3kav
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[19:52] <LeoBodnar> What is the radiation pattern of helix antenna?
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[19:56] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: http://jcoppens.com/ant/qfh/img/sim/0.50/x.png
[19:56] <craag> Quite isotropic from what I understand
[19:56] <craag> Depending on how you build it
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[19:57] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: can't access this image
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> So it will penalise anybody with vertical polarised yagi or GP but will allow HP yagi owners to join in?
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Are SSB modes HP by default on UHF like on VHF?
[20:00] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: it is hemispherical radiation
[20:00] <craag> Yeah iirc you'd get 3db of polarisation loss. plus a bit for being more isotropic (less gain) than a 1/4 wave, but would mean HP tracking would be greatly helped (by upto 30dB or so.
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[20:00] <OH7HJ> Yes, most ham long yagis are horizontal on 70 cm, too.
[20:01] <enkidu> also it is circular pol
[20:02] <OH7HJ> Circular pol is fine for Rx aerials tracking spacecraft which changes its polarization constantly.
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[20:03] <craag> So the sum of it would be Vertical SNR -5dB, Horizontal +30dB, at a guess.
[20:04] <OH7HJ> However, balloon Tx does stay the balloon side up. Also, one loses 3 dB in gain is using circular pol Tx aerial. So linear pol may be still most efficient for balloon Tx's.
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[20:07] <OH7HJ> Yes, horizontal yagis rule in ham world. In most terrains horizontal pol is absorbed less than vertical pol. So will get stronger signal with HP than with VP on VHF and UHF bands.
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[20:08] <OH7HJ> Only exception are Tx's low on water, which appear propagate better on VP surface wave. With balloon, it is of course not case of low propagation. :)
[20:09] <ejcspii> I think local scattering at the receive end will typically leak some power into the X-pol, so -30 dB might be somewhat pessimistic
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[20:09] <craag> ejcspii: Perhaps, but 10mW doesn't give much margin for scatter loss
[20:11] <OH7HJ> Yes, if the Rx aerial is low or surrounded by urban environment with many reflecting surfaces, the polarization will scatter. However, high aerials tend to be less sensitive to close environment.
[20:12] <craag> Yeah ham h-pol yagis tend to be well up in free space, and very directional, so will mostly be receiving line-of-sight path signal.
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[20:13] <OH7HJ> High gain long Rx yagis usually are sensitive to polarization. Usual polarization loss is about 20 dB.
[20:14] <craag> I did some playing around with a 16-ele H yagi on a 10m mast on a hill with one of Leo's balloons. Got a better signal off the side of the yagi, and 10x better with a vertical whip on the table :)
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[20:14] <OH7HJ> There is a cunning way to make a linear pol yagi receive both VP and HP. It is by setting it to diagonal pol. This way one gets less loss than using circular pol.
[20:15] <craag> Sounds to me like it's worth giving it a try :)
[20:15] <craag> Yes Rob M0DTS has his diagonal at the moment!
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[20:17] <OH7HJ> Linear to circular polarization loss is -3 dB, while linear to diagonal pol loss is only about -1 dB. ;)
[20:18] <craag> Yep, but one involves changing one small antenna on the ground, the other involves lots of people climbing up masts to tweak their highly-prized antennas!
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[20:19] <ejcspii> <craag> maybe, maybe not. I think of the penalty of going HP with the balloon, and listening with a VP omni antenna
[20:19] <OH7HJ> And you can not tweak yagis with square boom diagonal...
[20:19] <craag> I wasn't suggesting HP on the balloon.
[20:20] <craag> I was saying the QFH might be worth a try
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[20:20] <ejcspii> I see
[20:20] <craag> People have been suggesting it for years, Leo is launching tons of balloons so can try it out. If it doesn't work he'll launch another with a 1/4 wave the next day :P
[20:21] <DL1SGP> back from meeting
[20:21] <OH7HJ> Sure, HP on balloon Tx would dramatically extend its range to HP yagis, but also reduce signal stregth to VP Rx aerials.
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[20:22] <craag> Yeah HP-only is going to annoy a lot of people who've put up VP antennas just for tracking!
[20:23] <OH7HJ> However, the vertical Rx aerials are usually lower and close to roof surfaces etc pol scattering reflectors, so usual VP home aerials hear acceptably well also HP signals.
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[20:23] <craag> So try to get both with qfh, (with a little penalty).
[20:23] <mfa298> HP may also not be so good for all flights as HP on a car will be more tricky for flights that are chased
[20:25] <ejcspii> or drop that vertical radiator from the GP and make the radials into a cross dipole :) That will make both HP and VP people randomly happy/unhappy in off-axis directions :)
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[20:25] <OH7HJ> Same thing with cars. Their bodies scatter polarization effectively. So HP signals are quite well readable to car stick aerials.
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[20:26] <craag> haha ejcspii, we've had badly constructed payloads do that before, it's not fun!
[20:26] <ejcspii> I don't see why :)
[20:27] <ejcspii> did they add phasing or just drove the two dipoles in phase?
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[20:28] <craag> ejcspii: It's ussually happened when the 1/4 wave antenna is bent, and so only radiates in one direction... then the payload starts spinning so all the receivers get fading!
[20:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> enkidu no, i been monitoring all night
[20:30] <ejcspii> The QFH would be a great idea.
[20:30] <OH7HJ> A HP dipole can easily be made omnidirectional, without any phasing. The trick is to bend it a bit, to horizontal V-shape.
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> I will play with EZNEC and different shapes
[20:31] <OH7HJ> Horizontal V-dipole patterns are shown in Rothammel's Antennenbuch, for instance.
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[20:34] <OH7HJ> I have made omnidirectional 2m packet node aerials with such V-dipoles. A lot less work and by half less weight than making a circular pol dipole.
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[20:34] <Astrobiologist> Any of you guys using Blackberry OS10 phones or the Playbook tablet?
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[20:35] <OH7HJ> Also, by half less weight than a GP with radials... ;)
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[20:38] <Astrobiologist> Trying to convert the HABmodem app to BlackBerry OS10, need further advice/testers
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[20:40] <S_Mark> Hello
[20:41] <la3eq> B-18 news anyone?
[20:41] <S_Mark> Anyone familiar with a company called SCISYS in the UK?
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[20:42] <bertrik> la3eq: last contact 14:22 UTC today, heading for denmark
[20:43] <DL1SGP> and then it decided to take a bath :)
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[20:43] <la3eq> a clean balloon is a healthy balloon ;)
[20:43] <bertrik> DL1SGP: the graph shows a descent, but how can you be sure it took a bath?
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[20:44] Nick change: f5vnf -> f5vnf_
[20:44] <DL1SGP> bertrik: the weather at that spot made a continued flight almost impossible, additionally I had decodes where it was about 2km below the last reported altitude
[20:44] <DL1SGP> so it was a pretty fast decent
[20:45] <bertrik> caused by additional weight from rain?
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[20:46] <LeoBodnar> This is a quality sales pitch: http://www.radiotrap.com/technology.html
[20:46] <DL1SGP> I would assume so, it headed right into the zone where the bad weather was starting to build up, and there was some rainfall on the doppler radar
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> Every radio will operate on a fixed carrier frequency. (for Europe it is often 433.92MHz known as 433MHz.). The data or signal information is embedded within the carrier. In Standard FM systems the carrier signal actually operates over a spread of frequency e.g. 433.5MHz to 434.5MHz (but centralised on 433.92MHz), this is referred to as the bandwidth.
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> n Narrow band FM Systems the carrier operates over a much narrower spread, e.g. 433.908 to 433.932MHz which is a much narrower spread.
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> Headslap and despair
[20:49] Action: DL1SGP gives LeoBodnar his last chocolate cookie
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> Always use an FM (Frequency Modulation) System, Never consider using an AM (amplitude modulation) . An example of the difference in performance can be see on an ordinary radio, such as a car radio. The difference in quality of sound on medium Wave (AM) compared to FM Stereo is easily noted.
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[20:50] <mfa298> because quality of between a narrow band and wideband system is such a good comparison
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> Thank you DL1SGP - it goes into a little box that says "break glass to use in emergency"
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[20:51] <DL1SGP> if you get glass pieces on that cookie and swallow them that could cause severe inner bleadings, I would rather have a security switch that permits you to trigger the cookie release mechanism
[20:51] <DL1SGP> *bleedings even
[20:51] <mfa298> > AM systems (also commonly found in car alarms) are cheap and do not perform reliably outside a small local area without obstacles.
[20:52] <mfa298> except on my AM radio I can hear various foreign stations and if im lucky on a good day I might hear a french station on FM (living on the south coast)
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[20:54] <LeoBodnar> http://www.radiotrap.com/profile.html RF Solutions Ltd is the UKs largest supplier of OEM radio control systems. and a picture of an unhappy customer coming back with valuable product feedback
[20:56] <DL1SGP> lol
[20:56] <mfa298> lol
[20:57] <DL1SGP> and there are UFOs, Aliens want to assimilate their technology!
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[20:57] <mfa298> I didn't spot what was in the picture at first, I was struggling to read the BS
[21:00] <mfa298> I just saw their installation tip: When installing always seek the advice of an electrician. Although there are only three wires to connect, getting them wrong can cause damage!
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> Tip usually means "unnecessary but possibly helpful suggestion" doesn't it?
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> Like nuclear bomb might come with a booklet of useful tips.
[21:03] Action: mfa298 suspects "RadioTrap is a division of RF Solutions Ltd" means one guy.
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> 1) Don't leave this product in your car's dashboard on a sunny day.
[21:04] <mfa298> Started as a team of dedicated design engineers - everyone else has now left
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> Dedicated = "overworked, micromanaged and underpaid"
[21:04] Action: DL1SGP suspects the system should purposefully get played with one time RadioTrap is presenting somewhere :)
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[21:05] <LeoBodnar> *on your car dashboard (it was a Chinese instruction)
[21:06] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Lunar_Lander
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> hallo/hello
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> hallo hallo
[21:06] <DL7AD> moin moin
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> How's the evening?
[21:07] <DL1SGP> moin moin Sven
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good thanks and you?
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> * reaches for safety cookie
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> Did you get it working Sven?
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[21:14] <LeoBodnar_> My RF based system got cut off because it was not NFM
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[21:26] <chrisstubbs> is it a good idea to get a cycling helmet delivered by royal mail?
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[21:27] <SpeedEvil> what?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[21:28] <chrisstubbs> well they will probably destroy it!
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> hi Lunar_Lander
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[21:31] <mikestir> chrisstubbs: the way our postie hurls stuff over the fence in the rain, I'm beginning to wonder whether it's sensible to get anything delivered by royal mail!
[21:31] <mikestir> I think he played too much paperboy as a kid
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[22:08] <craag> Does anyone have experience with the Arduino GSM Shield?
[22:08] <enkidu> you have written prohibited word
[22:08] <fsphil> experience?
[22:09] <x-f> GSM?
[22:09] <enkidu> arduino
[22:09] <x-f> i have used one
[22:09] <fsphil> arduino is not prohibited here :) though it may cause some teasing
[22:09] <craag> x-f: Did you encounter an issue when it hang on the .begin() call?
[22:10] <x-f> no, i don't recall such issue
[22:10] <craag> I've sniffed the serial from the Modem and it's returning 'OK CALL READY', but the library keeps resetting it.
[22:10] <craag> Ok thanks
[22:10] <arko> anyone had experience launching non milar 36" balloons?
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[22:11] <arko> http://www.amazon.com/Latex-Balloon-Premium-Helium-Quality/dp/B006VGJAQC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381442617&sr=8-1&keywords=36%22+balloon
[22:11] <arko> like these
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> arko yeah I launched a 36" decorators balloon, not quite the same as your one
[22:12] <arko> was it milar?
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> no latex
[22:12] <chrisstubbs> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260816389660?var=560036877423&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[22:13] <arko> what was your burst altitude?
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> 813m leak altitude
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> then it came back down :P
[22:13] <arko> damn
[22:13] <chrisstubbs> 1 cable tie did not seal it well enough
[22:13] <arko> thats terribel :/
[22:13] <arko> hah
[22:13] <arko> bummer
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> 2 hours of faffing trying to get a GPS lock and it must have lost a fair bit of helium
[22:14] <chrisstubbs> if we launched it on time it probably would have been fine
[22:14] <arko> what was the expected burst altitude?
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[22:14] <chrisstubbs> No idea, but i did test the burst diameter to be about 1.2m if that helps
[22:15] <arko> hmm
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> I did bodge it into steves burst calc spreadsheet
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[22:19] <chrisstubbs> chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/burst_mod.xls
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[22:20] <chrisstubbs> select the balloon as 35g (what i measured mine to be)
[22:21] <arko> nice!
[22:21] <arko> thanks
[22:21] <arko> gonna work with these numbers a bit
[22:21] <chrisstubbs> yeah, i have no idea how accurate that will be
[22:21] <arko> i bought the balloon anyway and im going to try to make it burst
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[22:22] <chrisstubbs> ignore the burst guesstimate bit at the bottom, thats for the 100g pawan
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[22:23] <arko> yeah, no way these can make it to the stratosphere around 12km
[22:23] <arko> im gonna buy a kaymont balloon :/
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[22:24] <chrisstubbs> what are you launching this time arko?
[22:25] <fsphil> wonder if B-18 was damaged on the ground
[22:25] <fsphil> it seemed to stop abrubtly
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[22:27] <arko> chrisstubbs: http://habexproject.org/pico/
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[22:29] <chrisstubbs> Nice site!
[22:29] <chrisstubbs> is this the board you sent upu a while ago?
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> or did he send you his..
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[22:31] <arko> chrisstubbs: Upu sent me his
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[22:32] <arko> this is the board i layed out
[22:33] <arko> its supa tiny
[22:33] <arko> my next one is half this size
[22:33] <chrisstubbs> I like :)
[22:33] <craag> arko: I'll hopefully be launching same day on this side of the world :)
[22:33] <arko> but for now, i need to test this
[22:33] <arko> craag: awesome!
[22:33] <chrisstubbs> QFN scares me
[22:33] <arko> weekend of habs it shall be
[22:33] <arko> im trying to get people to use RTTY here
[22:33] <arko> call me crazy, but aprs is boring
[22:34] <arko> sure we have it and it works well, but i want to build the community you guys have, but here!
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[22:34] <fsphil> things would be much duller if we'd all used aprs here
[22:34] <arko> yep
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[22:34] <arko> it cuts out the communication
[22:35] <arko> because you dont need others
[22:35] <arko> and its boring
[22:35] <arko> and easy
[22:35] <arko> so its time to get murica active and talking
[22:35] <fsphil> all the cool stuff that's come out of it
[22:35] <arko> yeah
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[22:37] <arko> http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/9823653014/
[22:38] <arko> this is one of my favorite pictures
[22:38] <arko> that's a good community right there :)
[22:38] <fsphil> ah, Pecan in the middle
[22:38] <craag> :)
[22:38] <craag> Mine on the right :D
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[22:39] <arko> haha yes
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[22:39] <fsphil> oddest one at the top
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[22:39] <fsphil> but very cool
[22:39] <arko> gotta get the people around to communicate, because i know people here do these sort of stuff
[22:39] <arko> fsphil: haha
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> :)
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[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah just a short thing
[22:42] <chrisstubbs> I think we should have everyone bring all of their payloads next year
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> Stirling RTG is more efficient because if the stirling runs a generator, that makes much more use of decay heat than the thermocouples used normally?
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[22:44] <LeoBodnar_> arko: I had a go as well at these latexes (latexi) ?
[22:45] <arko> did you!?
[22:45] <arko> ah!
[22:45] <arko> what happen?
[22:45] <arko> milar balloons here are illigal
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[22:46] <LeoBodnar_> my tracker crashed at 11km
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[22:46] <enkidu> LeoBodnar_: which one?
[22:46] <LeoBodnar_> http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-1/
[22:47] <LeoBodnar_> I have forgot to disable 96MHz PLL in the chip and was running off internal oscillator
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> And you needed to recal?
[22:47] <LeoBodnar_> P.S. That's not me on the picture
[22:48] <LeoBodnar_> It just froze the controller stiff and left a carrier
[22:48] <LeoBodnar_> so DF hunting from 10km ruled
[22:48] <LeoBodnar_> anyway they go above 11km these balloons
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[22:49] <LeoBodnar_> It's exactly like yours chrisstubbs
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[22:50] <LeoBodnar_> Balloon itself is 32-35 grams of weight and sold as 6' party balloon. "Made In U.S.A." it says
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[22:51] <craag> LeoBodnar_: I see there was a Telit module on there, would you recommend them?
[22:51] <LeoBodnar_> I have never used it :D
[22:52] <LeoBodnar_> I flew the the B-1 with unpopulated GSM and then switched the PCB design and left it out
[22:52] <craag> Ah ok!
[22:52] <LeoBodnar_> Why have you decided to go GSM?
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> and B-1 is the only B-Balloon you got back so far?
[22:53] <craag> Ah it's for another project
[22:53] <LeoBodnar_> For "The Challenge"? :D
[22:53] <craag> I've been struggling with the Arduino GSM shield
[22:53] <craag> no, not hab related.
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[22:53] <chrisstubbs> craag, what are you using it for? SMS/calls or data?
[22:53] <craag> data
[22:53] <LeoBodnar_> I see. I got sceptical when the datasheet became very restrictive to its power consumption
[22:54] <LeoBodnar_> I think it demands 2A current during TX bursts
[22:54] <chrisstubbs> Ah fair enough, was going to suggest just chucking it at commands
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[22:54] <craag> Yeah, it looks like that's the way to go
[22:55] <craag> Shame, I was hoping I could write it all quickly with the lib
[22:55] <LeoBodnar_> Lunar_Lander: I also got B-10 back
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> I have played with AT commands a bit before, its okay for texts but data gets very confusing
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:55] <LeoBodnar_> http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/
[22:55] <arko> LeoBodnar_: ahh
[22:55] <LeoBodnar_> Sorry for posting the links all the time
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[22:55] Nick change: LeoBodnar_ -> LeoBodnar
[22:55] <arko> glad to know it can do at least 10km
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[22:56] <LeoBodnar> It also did self-relaunch by the way
[22:56] <arko> haha
[22:56] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[22:57] <chrisstubbs> Im off, night!
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[22:57] <LeoBodnar> nn!
[22:57] <arko> LeoBodnar: awesome thanks for the info, gonna try out the latex
[22:57] <arko> and totex
[22:57] <arko> see how it goes
[22:57] <arko> see the site?
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[22:59] <arko> LeoBodnar: where did you get the balloon?
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[23:00] <LeoBodnar> like chrisstubbs said on ebay - it's sold under Qualatex name here
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> I wouldn't use black next time though
[23:01] <arko> ahhh
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> I knew NOTHING about balloons when I bought it
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> and then you sent balloons across europe :)
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> It was very long time ago
[23:01] <arko> i dont want to float btw
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> great evolution :)
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> In June
[23:01] <arko> goal is to get to stratosphere at least
[23:01] <arko> haha
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> Chris sid they burst at 1.2m diameter
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> I just did a quick calcs and this is about 19000m
[23:02] <arko> oh?
[23:03] <arko> hmm, how did you determine that?
[23:03] <arko> a lot of these material coefficients are unknown to me
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[23:05] <Mik_WD8MNV> is b-18 still in the air?
[23:05] <LeoBodnar> Mmm, balloon+payload weight is 74 grams
[23:05] <fsphil> difficult to say Mik_WD8MNV, looks like the radio failed
[23:05] <LeoBodnar> I need to revise my calcs :D
[23:05] <arko> haha
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: DL1SGP tracked it down to 4000m descending into the sea
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> I am trying to make it float you see
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> ^^ arko
[23:06] <Rebounder-SM3ULC> :D
[23:06] Action: Rebounder-SM3ULC floats to bed.
[23:07] Nick change: Rebounder-SM3ULC -> Reb-SM3ULC
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[23:07] <LeoBodnar> Ah ok here it is.
[23:08] <arko> LeoBodnar: ah, i wanted to make this float, but i want it back for my lab. I proposed a HAB for this instrumentation lab, so to measure pressure/temp (bs to get a good grade imo)
[23:08] <arko> they said good luck
[23:08] <arko> so i want to at least bring it back and show it post flight
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[23:08] <LeoBodnar> 1.2m diameter is 0.9m3 volume
[23:08] <arko> plus we dont have a great network like the EU when it comes to RTTY
[23:09] <fsphil> if you've got the weight and budget, a satellite backup would help
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> If start weight is 32+42grams plus 32 grams lift we need 0.1m3 of Helium on te ground
[23:10] <LeoBodnar> This makes system density at burst 0.1kg/m3
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> WHich is 17260m standard atmosphere
[23:11] <arko> fsphil: maybe, but the data is the most important (which it will be send down with telemetry), so all isnt lost
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> We need a latex practitioner to go through these figures
[23:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[23:13] <arko> LeoBodnar: ah that makes sense
[23:14] <Mik_WD8MNV> anyone excited for the newly found Dr Who episodes?
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> In my case I had ca. 70 grams neck lift and it went above 11km
[23:16] <fsphil> Mik_WD8MNV: I've been watching some old eps recently. it's cheap, but not too bad
[23:16] <arko> ah
[23:16] <arko> i realize now that the burst diameter solves the whole material coefficient problem of trying to predict the breaking point
[23:16] <arko> heh
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> I am sure your payload will fit into 40-50 grams budget?
[23:17] <arko> i need coffee, time to head to lecture anyway
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> Haha yes!
[23:17] <arko> LeoBodnar: going for 10g
[23:17] <Mik_WD8MNV> they found some of the really old ones and have remastered them
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> Oh you're golden then!
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> good luck!
[23:18] <arko> thanks!
[23:19] <arko> you inpired me to go lighter
[23:19] <arko> i maybe the lightest ever launched in the US ;)
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> :D
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> 0 grams is like -273.15C
[23:21] <arko> haha
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> and heavy/hot is open ended
[23:21] <arko> the US is known for that :/
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> lol
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[23:31] <LeoBodnar> good night
[23:31] <arko> night!
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 11 2013