highaltitude.log.20131007

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[03:52] <DL7AD> good morning!
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[05:36] <yo2loj> Last packet of SP9UOB...
[05:36] <yo2loj> $$$$SP9UOB,8419,044310,44.09835,23.88927,7148,6918,27,155,-16,41538,81,9b*3242
[05:36] <yo2loj> $$$$SP9U(5Ft9 @4P.
[05:36] <yo2loj> @
[05:44] <yo2loj> Battery gone.
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[05:55] <Upu> excellent run that
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[06:10] <LZ1CLA> Hi Guys
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[06:16] <LZ1CLA> Hi Guys :)
[06:23] <x-f> good morning
[06:24] <Chetic> how do you encode messages for dl-fldigi to receive?
[06:24] <Chetic> can you put any sensor data in there?
[06:24] <Chetic> in my mind it only supports gps position but that's probably not true
[06:24] <x-f> Chetic, it's just text, you can put anything there
[06:25] <Chetic> but dl-fldigi decodes and sends to that tracker site doesn't it?
[06:25] <Chetic> I wanna do that too
[06:25] <Chetic> so I assume there's a format that everybody uses
[06:25] <x-f> the common UKHAS standard is $$callsign,sentence_id,time,lat,lon,alt,misc1,misc2,misc3,..*checksum
[06:26] <x-f> habitat (the server) takes care of the fields
[06:26] <Chetic> that's great
[06:26] <x-f> that's why you create a payload_document
[06:26] <Chetic> why do you send the time?
[06:26] <x-f> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[06:27] <x-f> to know when the sentence was transmitted?
[06:27] <Chetic> but you can just log that on the receiver's end
[06:27] <Chetic> save precious bytes
[06:27] <Chetic> :p
[06:28] <x-f> probably yes, but it is easier to send the time too
[06:29] <x-f> you don't have to, though, you can send anything
[06:29] <Chetic> that's great
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[06:29] <Chetic> I have lots of little sensors
[06:29] <x-f> just start with a callsign and end with the checksum
[06:30] <x-f> Chetic, maybe you can log them onboard and send only important data down "to save precious bytes" :)
[06:31] <Chetic> I don't expect to get it back
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[06:31] <Chetic> I want to at least have some sensor data to remember it by
[06:32] <x-f> well, some have used quite long sentences too
[06:33] <x-f> you can (habitat supports that) also alternate between two sentence types
[06:33] <daveake> If some of the sensor data changes slowly, you could (for examlpe) send one of them only per sentence, and cycle through the sensors
[06:34] <Chetic> we'll see once I have them working
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[06:35] <x-f> another option is to use a higher baud rate
[06:35] <Chetic> I'm having lots of trouble getting a good enough signal just at home..
[06:35] <Chetic> wanna stay safe, so I'm using 50
[06:36] <Chetic> not sure what to do about that crappy signal
[06:37] <x-f> can you ask somebody to test it with a different receiver?
[06:37] <Chetic> oh that's a good idea
[06:38] <Chetic> I don't think I know anyone with one, but maybe I can order another one
[06:38] <fsphil> being near the payload can cause overload in the receiver too, making it looks like a poor signal
[06:38] <Chetic> it's ~5m through two walls though
[06:39] <fsphil> that's still quite close
[06:39] <Chetic> huh..
[06:39] <Chetic> with no antenna?
[06:39] <Chetic> on the transmitter
[06:42] <fsphil> possibly, if it's in stripboard or breadboard that might provide enough of an antenna
[06:42] <fsphil> great way to test is if you've a hill a few km from your house
[06:42] <Chetic> that could be arranged
[06:43] <Chetic> but I mean the transmitter specs say 500m max range, so isn't testing it from a few km away a bit much?
[06:43] <Chetic> just to have it working as it shouhld
[06:43] <Chetic> should*
[06:43] <fsphil> I've lost a payload because I assumed the antenna was working ok
[06:44] <Chetic> I'm not gonna do that
[06:44] <fsphil> but it was putting out a very weak signal, which I couldn't tell up close
[06:45] <Chetic> the problem I'm having is with or without antenna
[06:45] <Chetic> makes no difference
[06:45] <Chetic> though maybe I made such a crappy antenna it shouldn't make a difference..
[06:46] <Chetic> definitely makes me suspect the receiver now
[06:47] <fsphil> it's possible yea
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[07:07] <g4sgx-iain> Ooooh? $$B-1600,i0551,52.3195.3 nXt4zK.49*
[07:07] <g4sgx-iain> Getting trace of B16, bo decode yet
[07:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Dial please Iain?
[07:09] <g4sgx-iain> 13.553, trace centered at 1475Hz
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[07:09] <g4sgx-iain> will leave it on when i go to work
[07:09] <g4sgx-iain> VERY slow, (DOM4)
[07:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> HF?
[07:10] <g4sgx-iain> yep
[07:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool.. I@ll take a look, Thanks
[07:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Got it!
[07:11] <g4sgx-iain> VERY weak here, using a K3 out of band
[07:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh right. Very easy to hear on TS590
[07:11] <g4sgx-iain> also Im using a 12M delta loop! :)
[07:12] <g4sgx-iain> did you decode?
[07:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just tuning up
[07:13] <eroomde> where is it roughly, do you know?
[07:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOADS of QRM
[07:13] <Darkside> totally unsurprised
[07:14] <Darkside> lol theres a chirp sounder there
[07:14] <Darkside> looks like a CODAR seasonde
[07:14] <Darkside> right on frequency
[07:15] <g4sgx-iain> damn, no decode again, damn chirp
[07:15] <Darkside> yeah
[07:15] <Darkside> not the best location for it..
[07:16] <g4sgx-iain> Damn, gotta split for work, will leave it on freq, back this arvo. Was not so much QRM earlier. Hopefully get a full decode
[07:17] <g4sgx-iain> Leo'll be happy.
[07:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> I can see it quite plainly on the waterfall, just like on UHF but the filter bandwidth looks wrong
[07:18] <g4sgx-iain> its DOM4 not 16
[07:18] <g4sgx-iain> thus very slow data
[07:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> I did an auto-config in FLDigi
[07:19] <g4sgx-iain> should be ok then, partial...$$B-16,406,07a59,52-3419,0.402,?421
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[07:21] <eroomde> might be worth recording some wavs if you feel up to the faff
[07:21] <eroomde> of a single string
[07:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Take a look: http://i.imgur.com/o7t2u0b.jpg
[07:21] <eroomde> with a bit of cunning one can write better decoders
[07:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Morning LeoBodnar :D
[07:21] <eroomde> that will work offline
[07:21] <LeoBodnar> Morning :)
[07:21] <x-f> combined with the previous partial, that puts it just north-east of Cambridge?
[07:21] <g4sgx-iain> gotta go to work, will leave it on freq.
[07:21] <x-f> morning
[07:21] <eroomde> morning LeoBodnar
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[07:21] <Darkside> G0TDJ_Steve: that looks like RFID reader hash
[07:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's continuous signal on 13.552.93
[07:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not B16?
[07:22] <Darkside> no
[07:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Damn!
[07:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Wondered why it was so strong LOL
[07:23] <Darkside> if you want to see what B16 looks like, switch mode to DOMEX4 and press the CQ button
[07:23] <Darkside> oh wait, dl-fldigi has all that stuff disabled
[07:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good idea
[07:23] <Darkside> but you know fldigi
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[07:23] <Darkside> so yeah
[07:23] <LeoBodnar> You can tick T/R it will still transmit
[07:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> I've not done any of the configuring to Tx, I get nothing LOL
[07:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Doesn't matter, I'll keep searching
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[07:25] <g4sgx-iain> last partial $$B-16,408,onn11,52.34980.4a7
[07:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> With that signal in the passband very near B16s TX Freq. I don't think I'll get to hear it at all.
[07:31] <g4sgx-iain> $$B-16,411,072856,52.3638,0.4325,6465,5,1.51*aFc
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[07:31] <g4sgx-iain> $$B-16,412,073026,52r666,0.4376,6464,5,1.52*bfad SO CLOSE
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[07:32] <g4sgx-iain> REALLY gitta go an open work up,cyas laters, will leave it on and online
[07:33] <g4sgx-iain> should be able to work out where it is?
[07:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Seeay!
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[07:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: Whats the nominal frequency of B16 please?
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[07:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm going to tweet it and see if we can get any listeners
[07:35] <LeoBodnar> Hah you have heard something g4sgx-iain ?
[07:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Iain has gone but he was getting partials
[07:35] <LeoBodnar> 13.553MHz USB
[07:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh no! B16 on the map :D
[07:37] <g4sgx-iain> decode
[07:37] <LeoBodnar> I thought it was close to impossible to hear it (if you are not GCHQ)
[07:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well done Iain :-)
[07:37] <LeoBodnar> go to work g4sgx-iain , see you later! :)
[07:37] <g4sgx-iain> REALLY gotta go..again. 73.
[07:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> 73
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[07:39] <LeoBodnar> It has been launched at 1800UTC yesterday, not the speediest of things
[07:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool.... I wish I could hear it but I have that signal right on top of it (typical!)
[07:43] <arko> good luck LeoBodnar!
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[07:43] <LeoBodnar> cheers
[07:44] <G8APZ> Good morning Leo... B-16 spotted I see!
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[07:45] <arko> a morning launch rather than a night launch for floating?
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> Morning G8APZ
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> arko: it is up since yesterday evening, just very difficult to rx
[07:46] <arko> ahhh
[07:46] <arko> cool!
[07:46] <arko> was wondering why its already at 6.5km
[07:47] <G8APZ> any theories as to what's gone wrong?
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[07:47] <LeoBodnar> I come to realise that UHF is soooo easy
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> Nothing's wrong - its 13.553MHz and 10mW
[07:48] <G8APZ> Ah....! yes, HF again!!
[07:48] <arko> i thought you couldnt do hf in the uk
[07:48] <G8APZ> I assumed 434MHz
[07:48] <G8APZ> ISM band
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> We need a guarded HF band for ourselves :D
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[07:49] <G8APZ> It will probably be audible in Southern Spain!! The problem is that spotters won't be listening on HF!
[07:51] <G8APZ> and variations in night/day propagation at 13MHz.... not easy to predict where reception will be!
[07:52] <LeoBodnar> We have time to experiment. It should run for 3-4 days on AA
[07:52] <f5vnf> that gives me time to swap antenna
[07:54] <DL7AD> good morning
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> morning Sven
[07:54] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: saw B-16 already launched???!!??!?
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[07:54] <LeoBodnar> It's an QRPPPP HF experiment
[07:55] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: ehh okay so not flying?
[07:58] <jim_g3wgm> UUmm. Nothing heard so far on 13.553. What thew tx/rx ration?
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[08:01] <jim_g3wgm> OOppss, I mean whats the tx/rx ratio!
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[08:02] <jcoxon> wow B-16 is alive!
[08:02] <DL1SGP> Good Morning!
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> 3 second pips and tx every ~2 minutes
[08:03] <LeoBodnar> morn jcoxon - barely
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[08:06] <jcoxon> still
[08:07] <jcoxon> it means that it does work
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[08:07] <jcoxon> i think it would suit a latex flight more
[08:07] <jcoxon> as we could do a proper dipole
[08:08] <LeoBodnar> Yeah and crank up power in international waters
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[08:11] <DL1SGP> does any of you kind people have the link to the pictures of our dear FBRC (Finnish Balloon Rescue Crew) for me?
[08:12] <DL1SGP> found them, thanks :)
[08:12] <malgar> did you find the balloon in finland? b-15?
[08:12] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, what is interesting about B-16 is that now we have a single tracker you should get more
[08:12] <jcoxon> there is a degree of psychology about it all
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[08:17] <LeoBodnar> do we need fake trackers strategically scattered worldwide?
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[08:17] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> I can't get my head around how lifting HF antenna to 7km affects first skip zone
[08:19] <LeoBodnar> it probably doesn't much
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[08:19] <LeoBodnar> Considering ionosphere is at ~100km
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[08:19] <jcoxon> i wonder if its to do with bounce off the ground
[08:20] <Darkside> nope
[08:20] <LeoBodnar> very true, also HF antenna in a free space might not provide desired radiation pattern
[08:20] <Darkside> off sea maybe
[08:20] <Darkside> off land, no
[08:20] <Darkside> land reflection loss is very high
[08:21] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, so G4SGX must be getting it line of sight
[08:21] <LeoBodnar> so instead of going slightly upwards it travels mostly horizontally
[08:21] <Darkside> perhaps 30-40db each hop
[08:21] <jcoxon> so people within the green circle 'should' be able to get it
[08:21] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: so this is a vrtical dipole?
[08:21] <jcoxon> might be worth an email
[08:22] <Darkside> because if so, what is flying is the closest thing you can get to a ideal dipole in free space
[08:22] <Darkside> which means there wont be much radiation below it
[08:22] <Darkside> additionally, many people will have horizontally polarised antennas for that band, not vertical, which will contribute another 5-10db or so of loss
[08:23] <LeoBodnar> yeah so G4SGX should lose it soon
[08:23] <Darkside> mm
[08:23] <Darkside> we had this issue with our 40m vert dipole launch
[08:26] <Darkside> so, according to the hourly area prediction charts, the first single-hop path lands near poland
[08:26] <Darkside> the electron density above the UK is not high enough for vertical incidence propagation, so any reception closer than poland will be from ine of sight
[08:27] <jim_g3wgm> Have had a careful listen for B16 on 13.553, but, sorry, nothing heard in Dorset.
[08:27] <jcoxon> HF is hte worst kind of black magic
[08:27] <Darkside> jim_g3wgm: whats your noise level?
[08:28] <Darkside> and what antenna
[08:29] <jim_g3wgm> about S4 and windowm ant (hor!)
[08:29] <jim_g3wgm> windom
[08:29] <Darkside> hrm, S4...
[08:29] <Darkside> need to run some path loss calcs
[08:29] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: TX power?
[08:29] <DL1SGP> 10mW :-)
[08:30] <Darkside> jim_g3wgm: estimated path length?
[08:31] <Darkside> ok lets say 100km
[08:31] <Darkside> with dipoles at both nds, thats -78dBm
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[08:32] <Darkside> ehh
[08:32] <Darkside> oh well
[08:32] <PA1SDB> Dial and tone freq pse B-16 ?
[08:33] <Darkside> PA1SDB: 13.553MHz
[08:33] <Darkside> and slook at your waterfall
[08:33] <PA1SDB> Darkside And where is the tone ?
[08:33] <Darkside> supposedly around 1400Hz?
[08:34] <PA1SDB> Darkside Tnx
[08:35] <DL1SGP> Good Luck Peter
[08:35] <Darkside> im taking a look on the PA websdr
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[08:35] <Darkside> netherlands one i mean
[08:35] <Darkside> whatever that prefix is
[08:36] <Darkside> so wahts the transmit rate for B16? LeoBodnar ?
[08:37] <LeoBodnar> DominoEX4 at 2 mins intervals with 3 sec pips inbetween
[08:37] <Darkside> ok
[08:38] <Darkside> nothing in th ntherlands then
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[08:38] <DL1SGP> as expected nothing here either :)
[08:38] <Darkside> not particularly surprised
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[08:41] <PA1SDB> :-)
[08:42] <jcoxon> you could say that tracking 434 was too easy
[08:42] <Darkside> such a low noise floor
[08:42] <jcoxon> this is a real challange
[08:42] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:43] <jcoxon> it would be nice to have some screenshots of G4SGX's waterfall
[08:43] <Darkside> THOR4 might help here
[08:43] <PA1SDB> Did some HiFer dx on this band in the past http://hifer-nl.8k.com/
[08:43] <jcoxon> Darkside, don't get fsphil too excited
[08:44] <jcoxon> right i think its time to clear some of the map
[08:45] <jcoxon> i'll take off WB8ELK and PSB if thats okay with everyone
[08:45] <Darkside> yeah
[08:45] <Darkside> do it
[08:45] <ed__> Hix, yo
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[08:45] <jcoxon> actually do we need XABEN any longer
[08:45] <jcoxon> 1 ditched and the other was recovered
[08:45] <jcoxon> i'll take those off too
[08:45] <PA1SDB> Did hear also a lot of HiFer stations from US here in The Netherlands http://hifer-nl.8k.com/received.htm
[08:46] <Hix> yo ed__
[08:46] <g4sgx_work> Its centered at 1450-1475 on the waterfall. My K3 was calibrated yesterday so accurate to a few Hz
[08:47] <jcoxon> thanks g4sgx_work !
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[08:49] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[08:51] <PA1SDB> g4sgx_work Tnx, keep us uptodate is something does change :-)
[08:52] <DL1SGP> we need some HF station on a boat to follow the path :D
[08:52] <Rebounder> Darkside: is the loss that big at 13 Mhz?
[08:52] <Darkside> its free space path loss
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[08:55] <Rebounder> Darkside: i meant vertical vs horizontal polarisation at 13 MHz.
[08:55] <Darkside> well for an ideal dipole its like 30db
[08:56] <Darkside> realistically its more like 5-10db
[08:56] <Darkside> probably less the closer the antenna is to ground
[09:00] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: UKHAS Listener Network http://t.co/gq06j12Hit #hamradio #uhf #ukhas
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[09:00] <nats`> hi
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[09:03] <Hix> http://goo.gl/m5ZlLZ no antenna mounting problems now :D
[09:04] <Darkside> interesting
[09:04] <Darkside> that wont handle a big mast though
[09:04] <Maxell> Hix: magmount?
[09:04] <Darkside> looks like a huge suction cup
[09:05] <Hix> 18Kg vacuum lifter for glass, figured it'd make a great camera mount but also mobile tracker antenna mount too
[09:05] <LazyLeopard> That one of those salt-water spray things?
[09:05] <LazyLeopard> Ah... ;)
[09:05] <Rebounder> LeoBodnar: have a vertical for 40 online when needed
[09:06] <malgar> LeoBodnar: isn't there a page for b-16?
[09:10] <Hix> when did B16 go up? looks like it launched around Mildenhall [i doubt this] maybe that was first pickup in DL-FLdigi
[09:11] <DL1SGP> Hix: yesterday late evening
[09:11] <x-f> 18 UTC
[09:11] <Hix> hmm - he normally announces when he releases them
[09:11] <jcoxon> yeah this is a super experimental flight
[09:12] <DL1SGP> a ninja flight :)
[09:12] <jcoxon> which initially didn't really work as in no one could hear it
[09:12] <jcoxon> and somehow G4SGX has locked onto the signal
[09:12] <fsphil> someone got it?
[09:13] <fsphil> wow
[09:13] <Hix> whats he experimenting with now? <0g payload ;)
[09:13] <fsphil> and floating too
[09:14] <Hix> oh is this the methanol flight?
[09:14] <Hix> was methanol wasnt it
[09:15] <x-f> Hix, it has a HF transmitter this time
[09:15] <Hix> oh
[09:15] <Hix> what freq?
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[09:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> 13.553MHz
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[09:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Must admit, I can't think why HF tracking is thought to be a good idea ?
[09:17] <ed__> over the horizon
[09:18] <ed__> the problem that's been afflicted a lot of the B flights
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[09:18] <Hix> does HF not rely on LoS then?
[09:18] <ed__> afflicting*
[09:18] <ed__> nope
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> no
[09:18] <ed__> it bounces off the ionosphere
[09:18] <Hix> ah beast me to the q ed__
[09:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> But its so unreilable due to propogation and noise
[09:18] <Hix> beat
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> not if the transmission is in a range of frequencies.
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> physics bounces it round the world
[09:18] <ed__> Geoff-G8DHE, indeed, though the potential payoff i think probably justifies a bit of experimentation
[09:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> aerial will be very ineffective due to size etc.
[09:19] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... The QRM on 13.553 is quite... intense...
[09:19] <ed__> it's amazing what you can do with physical constraints
[09:19] <Maxell> yes, HF is pretty messed up, even outside of the ISM baands
[09:19] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE: no reason you can't use a longgg wire
[09:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup aware of all the propogation modes but they work against reliable reception as far as I can see, but yes its worth checking it out I guess.
[09:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> use a long wire and you need a NOTAM in th eUK.
[09:20] <Darkside> ed__: in this case nobody in the UK will hear it from skywave
[09:20] <Darkside> only via LoS
[09:21] <DL1SGP> yeah as with all experiments we gotta wait a bit to see how this turns out to end... still is fun even if it is not received in the end
[09:21] <Darkside> the closest country that can hear it via skywave is poland, though as th day progresses that skip zone will shrink
[09:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Do we know what aerial Leo is using ?
[09:21] <Darkside> vertical dipole i think
[09:21] <LazyLeopard> It was a whole lot quieter yesterday, so I'm guesing having a beam of some sort is going to be essential for any serious HF tracking...
[09:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> well the only person receiving it is in ground wave range!
[09:21] <DL1SGP> 2x 2m wire going up and down he said if I remember correctly, so that makes it a vertical dipole
[09:22] <Darkside> not a full wavelength dipole then
[09:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Perhaps we shouldn't ask in that case :/
[09:22] <DL1SGP> hehe nope not at all Darkside :)
[09:22] <Hix> yeah - thats what i read in zeusbot a min ago
[09:22] <Darkside> which means unlike the 70cm antennas, this antenna will be more inefficient
[09:22] <Darkside> very inefficient
[09:23] <DL1SGP> which means that of the 10mW TX Out there will be significantly less ERP
[09:23] <Darkside> yeah
[09:23] <Darkside> here lies the other problem with HF payloads
[09:24] <DL1SGP> and still, it is being heard :) so that is good
[09:24] <Darkside> a dipole is the only efficient antenna you will get
[09:24] <LeoBodnar> It's just an experiment. For proper flight one needs well tuned full dipole and possibly 100mW-1W transmitter.
[09:24] <Darkside> yeah
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[09:24] Action: DL1SGP likes the experiment
[09:24] <Darkside> i think 1W would be fine
[09:24] <LeoBodnar> What was the power cluster balloon guy was using off the coast of Canada?
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[09:24] <Darkside> 5W i think
[09:25] <Darkside> that was on eof WB8ELK's transmitters
[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That seems to ring a bell with me as well.
[09:25] <Darkside> anyway, you can do 5W with good efficiency with a Class D or E amp
[09:25] <jcoxon> i've just started my beacon again
[09:25] <Hix> read that as bacon jcoxon
[09:25] <LeoBodnar> and 20m CW part of the band was pretty benign compared to HF ISM
[09:25] <Darkside> and you dont need big transistors - i use 2N7000's
[09:26] <jcoxon> just in case people see it in the waterfall
[09:26] <DL1SGP> where is your beacon at jcoxon ?
[09:26] <jcoxon> same band
[09:26] <DL1SGP> ok
[09:26] <jcoxon> basically i built a beacon yesterday on 15.553
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[09:26] <jcoxon> then LeoBodnar dug out his payload he had built
[09:26] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: if you wre going to fly a payload on 20m, i'd do it on around 14095
[09:26] <Darkside> that area
[09:27] <LeoBodnar> Lol sorry, jcoxon I did not steal you thunder - you just reminded me I had one and thought now or never
[09:27] <Darkside> 14070-14080 is PSK, 14080-14090 is RTTY, and 14090-14105 is other shit
[09:27] <Darkside> and some more RTTY
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[09:27] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, oh that wasn't what i meant
[09:27] <jcoxon> it was more explaining why suddenly we have 2 transmitters
[09:28] <Darkside> jcoxon: anyway, your beacon wont be propagated via skywave
[09:28] <LeoBodnar> I knew you didn't :D
[09:28] <Darkside> not locally anyway
[09:28] <jcoxon> Darkside, well its a fun experiement for me
[09:28] <jcoxon> :-D
[09:29] <jcoxon> looks like b-16 is settling into its day float
[09:29] <Darkside> jcoxon: what antenna hav you got up
[09:29] <tweetBot> @nerdsville: B16 HAB flight, 13.553MHz DomEx 4, track on http://t.co/25cZQgG2dZ no chance of rx here with this QRM #ukhas #hab http://t.co/jcQeRSpO6D
[09:29] <LeoBodnar> I actually tried HF 13.553 before on B-9 but thought TX was faulty. No I see that it probably wasn't
[09:29] <malgar> what's the predicted flight for b-a16? scandinavia like b-15?
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[09:29] <malgar> b-16
[09:31] <jcoxon> Darkside, its currently a 1/4 vertical which extends up above my roof and then a grounded section
[09:31] <jcoxon> i just can't run the second element of hte dipole down, don't have space
[09:31] <Darkside> how much ground
[09:31] <Darkside> for a HF vertical, you need many many ground radials
[09:31] <jcoxon> metal drain pipe ground
[09:31] <Darkside> like >10
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[09:32] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[09:33] <Darkside> jcoxon: you'd do better with an end-fed halfwave running up to somthing
[09:33] <Darkside> they arent too hard to mak
[09:33] <Darkside> make*
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[09:34] <LazyLeopard> LeoBodnar: Do you know exactly where B-16 is transmitting?
[09:34] <Darkside> jcoxon: trying to find the doc on th one i made..
[09:36] <DL1SGP> jcoxon: is your beacon transmitting CW/RTTY/DomEx?
[09:37] <jcoxon> CW, SLowHell and RTTY
[09:37] <jcoxon> currently slowhell
[09:37] <Darkside> dammit, cant find it
[09:37] <Darkside> it was a 49:1 balun iirc
[09:38] <Darkside> with a capacitor across it
[09:38] <jcoxon> LazyLeopard, Its centered at 1450-1475 on the waterfall. My K3 was calibrated yesterday so accurate to a few Hz
[09:38] <jcoxon> <jcoxon> thanks g4
[09:38] <jcoxon> 13.553Mhz that is
[09:39] <LazyLeopard> Thanks
[09:41] <LazyLeopard> Not seeing anything. Probably a case of needing a better antenna here.
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[09:42] <LeoBodnar> LazyLeopard: 13.553 USB with modem around 1450Hz
[09:44] <fsphil> lovely noise on 13.553 on the websdr
[09:45] <mattbrejza> so how long until we can blast out 5W on 144? :P
[09:45] <mattbrejza> hurry up ofcom...
[09:46] <LazyLeopard> Thanks, LeoBodnar. Not seen anything here, but wil monitor for a while. I expect my antennas aren't up to it, though.
[09:46] <DL1SGP> maybe you can make PLT Modems fly :) as broad as their spectrum is :D
[09:46] <Darkside> DL1SGP: you horribl person
[09:46] <Darkside> PLT is vil
[09:46] <Darkside> evil*
[09:46] <DL1SGP> I agree!
[09:48] <fsphil> yea horrible things
[09:48] <DL1SGP> Plasma TVs can be horrible things too!
[09:48] <Darkside> yup
[09:49] <LazyLeopard> 'vile' was an equally appropriate typo interpretation. ;)
[09:49] <Darkside> yeah
[09:49] <fsphil> evile
[09:49] <LazyLeopard> We had an interesting demo of just how much garbage PLT stuff spews out at a club meeting a year or three ago...
[09:49] <Darkside> mm
[09:50] <Darkside> supposedly they have notch filters for the amateur band
[09:50] <Darkside> but i dunno about that
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[09:50] <LazyLeopard> ...and the rather cynical way some of the manufacturers were adding filters for the main ham bands...
[09:51] <fsphil> there's a seriously noisy signal on 13.553 atm
[09:51] <LazyLeopard> ...which did make a difference to the ham bands, but not really quite enough difference, and did squat for the interference on the DAB frequencies...
[09:52] <fsphil> how those things got any kind of approval I've no idea
[09:53] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, is it okay if i email the mailing list
[09:53] <jcoxon> about b-16
[09:54] <LazyLeopard> The reports that came out of the RA (and the ones that should have but didn't) all demonstrated that PLT was something that needed killing at birth.
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> absolutely jcoxon !
[09:54] <LazyLeopard> ...but the RA was closed down and Ofcom was born at just about exactly that time...
[09:55] <LazyLeopard> ...and somehow all the technical reports got buried/lost/forgotten/whatever...
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> But economy got a boost, all these extra modems sold
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> that what matters
[09:56] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, right...
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[09:58] <craag> PLT stuff does make wired networking a lot easier for student houses! I only support people using it that are at least 1/2 a mile from me though :P
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[10:01] <mattbrejza> na, student houses should have 30m cat5 going everywhere and held in palce with gaffa tape
[10:01] <fsphil> phew, thought you'd wrote jaffa cake there for a moment
[10:02] <mattbrejza> well some spots on walls are naturally sticky
[10:02] <DL1SGP> that jaffa cake would not stay long, though students can come up with funny ideas for gaffa tape too
[10:02] <craag> mattbrejza: Well that's what mine ends up looking like!
[10:02] <craag> ALthough doesn't do too well for the 144MHz noise floor
[10:02] <fsphil> hehe yea
[10:02] <fsphil> ethernet is annoying on 2m
[10:02] <Ugi> Is that powe-line networking you are discussing guys? (PTL)
[10:02] <craag> Ugi: yep
[10:03] <Darkside> fsphil: thernet is horrible on HF
[10:03] <Ugi> Not previously ocurred to me that it might be any issue
[10:03] <fsphil> It doesn't seem to cause any noise on HF for me Darkside
[10:03] <Darkside> it puts out spurs
[10:03] <Darkside> about very 20KHz
[10:03] <fsphil> I switched everything off in my house a while back
[10:03] <DL1SGP> if hell had internet it would be through PLT :)
[10:03] <fsphil> and the only difference was on 2m
[10:04] <fsphil> I'm fairly sure someone nearby is using PLT though
[10:04] <Darkside> heh
[10:04] <Ugi> I think our PLN is currently running but doing nothing - I should turn it off.
[10:04] <fsphil> it's too constant for a plasma TV
[10:04] <fsphil> though could be a faulty PSU too
[10:04] <Maxell> lol, someone got mad and now messing with thta power line stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBa4_vQVd3Y
[10:05] <Darkside> anyway, i have to do a big thernet run at some point soon, it'll hav to be fully shielded CAT6
[10:05] <Darkside> else it'll raise my noise floor
[10:06] <Ugi> Is powerline worse than normal UTP
[10:06] <Ugi> ?
[10:06] <fsphil> much
[10:06] <fsphil> PLT is basically wifi over HF
[10:06] <Darkside> well ADSL is too
[10:06] <Darkside> but phone lines are usually twisted pair
[10:06] <Darkside> power lines arent
[10:06] <Darkside> and radiate
[10:07] <fsphil> that's true
[10:07] <Ugi> OK - we now have a UTP cable down to our living room (where the wifi doesn't reach) so I could ditch the PLT
[10:07] <DL1SGP> PLT transmits data signals on non-shielded power cables which basically turns the wiring into an antenna
[10:08] <Darkside> PLT also gos higher in frequency than ADSL2+
[10:08] <Ugi> DL1SGP: Figures
[10:08] <fsphil> Ugi: if you have an HF receiver it might be worth doing a before/after test
[10:08] <Darkside> even higher than VDSL iirc
[10:14] <jcoxon> somehow G4SGX still is rx'ing
[10:14] <jcoxon> i'm very impressed
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[10:17] <CHRISG7OGX> what is the time interval between txs on B16 please?
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[10:18] <DL1SGP> 3.553Mhz USB approximately 1475 on the waterfall for the standard 3 second beeps and telemetry every 2 mins.
[10:18] <DL1SGP> 13.553Mhz USB approximately 1475 on the waterfall for the standard 3 second beeps and telemetry every 2 mins.
[10:20] <CHRISG7OGX> dl1sgp thanks very much nothing seen..i am horizontally polarised
[10:21] <DL1SGP> CHRISG7OGX: you are welcome :)
[10:22] <Laurenceb_> nice flight from SP9UOB
[10:22] <Laurenceb_> long duration for a energizer lithium
[10:23] <craag> gonzo_: I'll be at the RSGB convention this wkend and will be pushing airborne AR :)
[10:23] <Hix> is there an #rsgb channel? would it be worth spreading news on B16 there if there is?
[10:24] <jcoxon> you could try #hamradio
[10:24] <jcoxon> but you might never return
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[10:25] <Darkside> lol
[10:25] <Darkside> maybe its time i flew a 40m transmitter...
[10:25] <Hix> with my level of RF and HAM knowledge I'm not putting my head above the parapet :D
[10:25] <Darkside> well, flew one again
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> No rush Darkside, tomorrow morning will do!
[10:27] <Darkside> lol
[10:27] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi was built for HF initially
[10:28] <jcoxon> well HF flights
[10:29] <Darkside> whats your power limit on 13.566MHz
[10:29] <Darkside> legal power limit i mean
[10:29] <LeoBodnar> 10mW
[10:29] <Darkside> damn
[10:29] <Darkside> that sucks
[10:30] <Darkside> around here its half a watt
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> Wouldn't 27.120 MHz ISM make more sense? I have a tracker made up for it somewhere.
[10:30] <Darkside> not really
[10:30] <Darkside> i mean, you'd only be getting line of sight propagation locally
[10:30] <Darkside> and you'll only get DX propagation if th conditions are really good
[10:31] <Darkside> and it hasn't been *that* good on 10/11m recently
[10:31] <DL1SGP> indeed, 12m was quite OK past few days but highly unstable
[10:31] <Darkside> DL1SGP: did you work the OCDX contest?
[10:31] <DL1SGP> no
[10:31] <Darkside> aww
[10:32] <DL1SGP> had a few duties over the weekend that would not really have given me proper chances to concentrate on contesting :)
[10:32] <Darkside> hehe, we ran a multi-two station
[10:32] <Darkside> 940 contacts
[10:32] <Darkside> 68 DXCC entities
[10:33] <DL1SGP> yeah I listened in on 20m, remember :)
[10:33] <Darkside> oh yeah :P
[10:33] <Darkside> haha
[10:33] <Darkside> sorry, that was like 48 hours ago now :P
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[10:33] <DL1SGP> will you be in the CW contest?
[10:33] <Darkside> nope
[10:33] <DL1SGP> meh :)
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[10:34] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/DSC_8584.jpg
[10:34] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, B-16 ground speed is quite high
[10:34] <Darkside> not sure if i posted that
[10:35] <jcoxon> what was it doing overnight?
[10:35] <jcoxon> some sort of loop?
[10:35] <DL1SGP> if you posted it that was like 48h ago so we would have forgotten anyhow :)
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> There was very little wind overnight
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> and it would have been lower - at about 5500 I would guess
[10:42] <fsphil> this is a very low float
[10:43] <craag> *low float for leo
[10:43] <fsphil> well corrected
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[10:44] <LeoBodnar> It has a AA battery onboard so a bit heavy
[10:46] <fsphil> interesting prediction difference. if I launch a foil today and it floats, it heads for northern sweden
[10:46] <fsphil> tomorrow, it heads for england and on to germany
[10:46] <fsphil> tomorrow evening, denmark
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[10:47] <craag> Tomorrow sounds good then ;)
[10:47] <fsphil> that's the plan :)
[10:47] <fsphil> though I'll be at work
[10:47] <fsphil> can bring it down in the car, launch from the carpark :)
[10:48] <fsphil> wonder if I can fill it tonight
[10:48] <DL1SGP> that sounds like a good plan fsphil I will be listening for it :)
[10:48] <fsphil> I've never done this before, if it leaves N.Ireland I'll be chuffed ;)
[10:49] <craag> Good luck with it!
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[10:50] <fsphil> do I let the gas get to outside daytime temperatures, or night?
[10:50] <fsphil> given that it's quite cold up there, I wonder if doing it when it's colder on the ground would help
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[10:59] <homewld> can hear the 3 secong beeps on 13.553 here in Lowestoft but frequency very noisy
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[11:00] <fsphil> there are some quite strong signals on there
[11:00] <fsphil> definitly more than 10mw
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[11:03] <Laurenceb_> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VSf15JyQfJoC&lpg=PA228&ots=QYkc9ztvFE&dq=shape%20memory%20effects%20in%20elastomers%20polyurethane&pg=PA227#v=onepage&q=shape%20memory%20effects%20in%20elastomers%20polyurethane&f=false
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> smilies in a book ?!
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[11:06] <fsphil> hah
[11:06] <fsphil> that's like parents using "lol"
[11:08] <DL1SGP> a moxon for that antenna would be umm spanning 24.664 feet my neighbors would likely kill me :)
[11:09] <DL1SGP> s/antenna/frequency/
[11:09] <DL1SGP> gonna prepare some mushrooms we found in the forests for lunch. will be back in a bit... at least that is what I hope :)
[11:11] <sv1ljj> :-D
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[11:12] <Vostok> what's the "predicted burst" thing at spacenear.us? apparantely not applicable to floating balloons?
[11:13] <Vostok> apparently
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[11:17] <PA1SDB> g4sgx_work Still same frequency ? 13553,000 USB gives ~1475 Hz tone center ?
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[11:19] <UpuWork> Vostok yeah it assume a burst so ignore it generally
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[11:37] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: STM32 has arrived, what do I do now? :D
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> laugh/cry
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[11:38] <mattbrejza> destroy your supplies of PICs
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> you have to get a compiler running
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[11:39] <Laurenceb_> https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> On the shelf then among other Arduino wannabes
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> looks like they have a nice .exe
[11:39] <jcoxon> i regularly cry at my STM32
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> oh you run mac dont you?
[11:39] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: hah, just got one too
[11:40] <fsphil> lovely screen
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> mac should be easier
[11:40] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, yeah i've got hte toolchain sorted, use xcode to edit it
[11:40] <fsphil> the demo app doesn't seem suited to large fingers
[11:40] <jcoxon> managed to get libopencm3 and CMSIS compiled
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[11:41] <LeoBodnar> how jcoxon ?
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[11:43] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, are you on mac?
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> x5 I think
[11:43] <jcoxon> i'll pm you some links
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> Cheers!
[11:44] <fsphil> don't try building gcc manually
[11:45] <fsphil> it ends in tears
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[11:45] <fsphil> but not straight away. it waits until near the end to display a cryptic error that google's never seen ebfore
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[11:49] <Rebounde1> fsphil: those were the days... compiling gcc on a Sparc+ over NFS... about as fun as compiling gnuradio on an rpi...
[11:50] <fsphil> if it worked, I salute you :)
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[11:51] <fsphil> I managed to build a version of gcc to build CHDK
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[11:51] <fsphil> but failed for the stm32
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[11:53] <nats`> coocox is cool to dev on stm32
[11:53] <nats`> I use it with the advised compile chain
[11:53] <nats`> and support busblaster and openjtag :)
[11:54] <malgar> Could you try to explain me better this point from tracking guide? "How this works is that the transmitter broadcasts a '0' at 434.075MHz (for example) - the SSB radio is tuned to 434.074MHz (1000Hz lower). The SSB receiver outputs a tone that is simply the input frequency minus the tuning frequency. 1000Hz and 1200Hz are easily in the audible range (the receiver will only output from around 300-3000Hz) - and are passed to the sound
[11:54] <malgar> card. "
[11:55] <fsphil> SSB basically takes a little bit of radio spectrum and shifts it down to audio frequencies
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[11:56] <fsphil> so if your USB radio is tuned to 434.075mhz, you hear the signals from 434.075 > 434.077ish
[11:57] <fsphil> most ssb radios seem to have about 3khz bandwidth
[11:57] <malgar> I have an rtl-sdr
[11:57] <malgar> is it enough?
[11:57] <craag> Yep
[11:57] <fsphil> the hardware in that has a huge bandwidth
[11:58] <fsphil> your SDR app will control what you hear
[11:58] <fsphil> the default in that is probably about 3khz too, but you can change it
[11:59] <malgar> ok but I still wonder how can I hear 1000Hz sounds if my receiver is shifted by 1000Hz from the carrier
[12:00] <Hix> so is what the SDR is doing, just shifting the radio signal from MHZ down to KHz in order that human ears can hear it?
[12:00] <fsphil> yep
[12:01] <fsphil> it takes that little window you've tuned to, and basically shifts it all down to 0hz
[12:01] <fsphil> if there is a signal on 434.076mhz, and you've tuned a USB radio to 434.075mhz
[12:01] <fsphil> you'll hear it output at 1000hz
[12:01] <fsphil> it's been shifted down 434.075mhz
[12:02] <malgar> still wondering but... ok, I'll realize that it will work :P
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[12:02] <Hix> So unlike normal AM FM transmissions, there is no need to demodulate USB/LSB?
[12:02] <Darkside> the demodulation consists of shifting it down to baseband (audio)
[12:02] <craag> Hix: indeed
[12:03] <malgar> fsphil: but this trick works only with data. If I would like to hear voices I guess they would have the wrong frequency
[12:03] <Maxell> Hix: yep, USB is just baseband actually
[12:03] <fsphil> yea it's probably still technically a demodulation
[12:03] <Hix> told you I was an RF pleb :)
[12:03] <fsphil> malgar: it works for voice too. the audio at the transmitter is just shifted up to whatever frequency they're transmitting at
[12:05] <mfa298> with voice the trick is just tuning the radio properly so the audio frequency is around where it should be.
[12:05] <fsphil> yea there is no guide
[12:05] <mfa298> otherwise you hear donald duck / aliens
[12:05] <fsphil> slightly off and it sounds weird
[12:05] <Hix> thus the pitch changes on RTTY when you tune/detune
[12:06] <craag> malgar: I suggest you tune around 14.100 - 14.300 Upper SSB on here: http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
[12:06] <mfa298> Hix: yes
[12:06] <craag> You should hear plenty of voice, and see what we're talking about
[12:07] <mfa298> LSB/USB is very similar to AM it's just stripping out all the redundant / useless information
[12:07] <Hix> is there a 101 for RF sort of stuff, I'm interested in knocking up a flash controller system for photography but my current knowledge is about the linkijg an NTX2 level from the wiki :)
[12:09] <mfa298> tuning around using the websdr craag just linked is a good way to play. Most amateur stuff will be lsb <10MHz and USB >10MHz broadcast radio will be AM
[12:09] <mfa298> but you can also listen to the AM broadcasts with LSB/USB
[12:10] <fsphil> which is a good demo of why SSB is a better use of power than AM :)
[12:10] <malgar> craag: cool tis web sdr! which band? am?
[12:10] <craag> malgar: It does 0-30Mhz, tune around and see what you can find!
[12:11] <fsphil> there are a huge amount of signal on there
[12:11] <fsphil> that sdr is amazing
[12:11] <mfa298> for best effect you need to zoom in on the web sdr
[12:11] <fsphil> the interface could use some work though
[12:12] <mfa298> the interface worked really well when it only covered 48KHz of 20m but it's not so good on a laptop with 30MHz of bw
[12:14] <Hix> Everytime I go to TI.com I am still in awe of how much information they have on it. It goes from pleb level to úber-pro all in one page. It is truly a great resource
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[12:14] <Hix> probably very shrewd marketing too, as I makes me have a preference for their kit
[12:15] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[12:15] <DL1SGP> Guten Nachmittag DL7AD
[12:16] <Hix> Mahlzeit :)
[12:17] <malgar> craag: wonderful :) tnx a lot
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[12:24] <malgar> I know that every antenna is designed for a particular range of frequencies. How could an SDR receive a so wide spectrum?
[12:25] <malgar> are there "universal antennas"?
[12:25] <craag> That SDR uses a special antenna
[12:25] <fsphil> they must have a good location too
[12:26] <craag> it's a small piece of metal (5x10cm iirc) with a high-gain amplifier on it
[12:26] <fsphil> not so much QRM
[12:26] <craag> And it's on a lead-lined roof with no HVAC units or anything, so deadly quiet qrm wise
[12:26] <fsphil> it would be interesting to see the waterfall over the course of a day or week
[12:26] <fsphil> see the effects of the day/night cycle
[12:26] <mfa298> there's a couple of pictures on http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/qrt.html
[12:26] <craag> He has done that a few times
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[12:31] <malgar> for AM transmission is the bandwidth of the transmission identical to the sound bandwidth? For example the best sound could come from a 22000Hz bandwidth, right?
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[12:31] <nats`> malgar you have RX antenna with really wide range of freq
[12:31] <nats`> like disconne
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[12:32] <mfa298> malgar: that's correct although AM stations don't tend to use that much bandwidth
[12:32] <fsphil> malgar: it's double
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[12:32] <fsphil> AM duplicates the audio, as both an upper and lower sideband
[12:32] <malgar> ok
[12:33] <mfa298> AFIK AM tends to be 8 or 9 KHz normally so around 0-4000Hz in the audio range
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[12:33] <nats`> mfa298 they use SSB ?
[12:33] <malgar> anyway.. this web sdr is extramely interesting and funny :D I'm understanding a lot of things that written on wikipedia or other websites weren't so clear
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[12:34] <fsphil> If you filtered out the carrier, and one of the sidebands of an AM signal - you get an SSB signal :)
[12:35] <mfa298> with AM around 1/2 your power goes into a carrier wave then 1/4 into each sideband. The carrier doesn't provide any useful information but helps a reciever tune in.
[12:35] <malgar> fsphil: but if in the websdr I select USB or LWB i get only the part of the audio frequencies. Is this because the transmission isn't SSB?
[12:35] <mfa298> for amateur stuff that power is wasteful so we generally use one of the sidebands.
[12:36] <malgar> are there SSB transmissions that I actually could hear using that websdr? give me a frequency to tune in :)
[12:37] <mfa298> malgar: if you're listening to an AM station you should be able to switch between LSB and USB and still hear it. You might find the default bandwidths are slightly different so it might cut some frequencies
[12:37] <malgar> mfa298: I still hear it but sound is awful
[12:37] <mfa298> but you can adjust the bandwidth on the websdr by dragging the edges
[12:37] <malgar> ok
[12:37] <malgar> let's try
[12:37] <mfa298> if you're slightly off in frequency you might also find the frequency shifts as you swap between the two sidebands.
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[12:40] <mfa298> looking at one of the china AM signals 13.610 by default AM gives +/- 4Khz, USB gives under 3khz of bandwidth
[12:40] <DL1SGP> hi iain_G4SGX thanks for the great tracking work :)
[12:42] <mfa298> if you wanted something that's only USB look at the 20m amateur band 14.100 - 14.350 for voice (14.0 - 14.1 for data modes)
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[12:42] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[12:43] <iain_G4SGX> No worries, all direct though, no skywave prop. Very weak here and QRM is bad.
[12:43] <craag> What's the antenna on it?
[12:43] <craag> (B-16)
[12:44] <DL1SGP> malgar: check 14.207 MHz if you need something in USB ... 7x2ara on there
[12:44] <Maxell> craag: 2 meter of wire on both ends
[12:44] <Maxell> so dipole
[12:44] <craag> So that's 2x1m?
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[12:45] <Maxell> no, 4 meters total
[12:45] <iain_G4SGX> dipole will be 10 m long
[12:45] <craag> Ok... coiled or something? (2m limit)
[12:45] <Maxell> craag: 20:57:30 < LeoBodnar> 2m up 2m down dangling thin wire
[12:46] <craag> hmm, any matching at all?
[12:46] <nats`> isn't it possible to use loop antenna for this 13MHz ?
[12:46] <malgar> it's addicting
[12:46] <nats`> I remember having something like that for am radio with a magnetic support
[12:47] <craag> nats`: Yes, they're not very efficient though, especially on tx.
[12:47] <craag> I'd probably go for a hybrid of the two
[12:47] <craag> center-loaded dipole
[12:47] <nats`> craag I was mostly talking about tracking balloon
[12:47] <nats`> I guess if you tx on that you'll burn the ferrite core
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[12:47] <Lunar_LanderU> hi DL7AD_
[12:47] <craag> Ah ok, yeah still not nearly as good as a dipole
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[12:47] <craag> not at 10mW!
[12:48] <iain_G4SGX> ERP of a lot less
[12:48] <mfa298> HF probably really wants to be on a larger NOTAM'ed balloon so you can do something that's less of a compromise
[12:48] <craag> iain_G4SGX: Yep, but restricted by legality :/
[12:48] <jcoxon> thats what i'm aiming to do with my transmitter i'm testing
[12:48] <craag> At least then you have a 75 ohm match !
[12:48] <jcoxon> go for a full dipole
[12:49] <jcoxon> i'd also include a 434 payload
[12:49] <mfa298> full dipole or hang a proper loop underneath (effectivly a dipole bent into a circle / square)
[12:50] <jcoxon> well it wouldn't be diffiult, you could use the upper part of the dipole as the line
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[12:50] <iain_G4SGX> I'll model a 4M long dipole on 13Mhz, see what results are. brb
[12:50] <jcoxon> the question is? is it worth it
[12:50] <jcoxon> as has been pointed out hte QRM is terrible in this region
[12:51] <craag> iain_G4SGX: It's not going to be a 50 ohm match, hence why I'm saying 2m dipole with loading coils >> 2m dipole on 13MHz
[12:51] <craag> Yeah just thinking for picos
[12:51] <jcoxon> if we can get some form of propagation then it would be worthwhile
[12:51] <craag> Absolutely
[12:51] <mfa298> I wonder how much difference the polarisation would make for skywave. I know on the ground it can make a difference but at least some of that is due to the ground effects.
[12:52] <iain_G4SGX> Sure, interesting to see radiation pattern though. A loaded mobile vertical would be good also, can you use the metallic coating of the pico balloon as a groundplane maybe?
[12:52] <craag> If Leo just has a couple of 2m bits of wire with no matching, then I'm not surprised at the poor range, because his SWR will be well off.
[12:52] <craag> iain_G4SGX: It's not metallic iirc, just made to look like it :P
[12:53] <iain_G4SGX> can model it in free space, without a ground, or with groundplanes
[12:54] <craag> mfa298: It doesn't make much of a difference. Horizontal is generally used on the ground as then you can get the high-current centre of the dipole higher above the ground.
[12:54] <craag> WIth a 1/4 wave on the ground, your high-current part is the bit next to the ground, which distorts your radiation pattern upwards.
[12:55] <craag> iain_G4SGX: What I'm proposing is effectively a couple of loaded 'mobile' verticals back to back as a dipole.
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[12:56] <craag> At least then you get the SWR match to the tx, so less reflected power, so more erp. Even though the antenna is no longer.
[12:57] <jim_g3wgm> Just a thought, as far as the hf antennas on a balloon goes, dont forget the end fed zep (after Zeppelin airships). http://www.qikzepp.com/QikZepp_technical_information.html
[12:58] <mfa298> craag: that's roughly what I was thinking, and vertical dipole vs horizontal loop will both have similar nulls so not much difference again for skywave. vertical dipole will be a lot easier to make though.
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> Is there a concept of SWR in a system with no feedline?
[12:58] <iain_G4SGX> he he, EZNEC cant work out his SWR on that antenna, its more than 100:1 lol
[12:58] <craag> LeoBodnar: Yes, you'll still get a mismatch with the antenna.
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> But not really SWR
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> there is no feedline per se
[12:58] <craag> feedline has no bearing on SWR
[12:59] <craag> unless it also is unmatched, and so adds to the loss
[13:00] <craag> SWR is the ratio of the impedance of the load to the impedance of the transmitter.
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> Well I have matched the transmitter for higher impedance which short dipole has
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[13:00] <craag> LeoBodnar: Ah ok, in which case all is fine :)
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> But it's a bit of a struggle to have high voltages in the payload.
[13:02] <craag> Mm, and matching high-impedance is messy.
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[13:02] <iain_G4SGX> That antenna at 13.5 Mhz : 7.821 - j 1286
[13:02] <craag> very easy to be out by large factors.
[13:03] <iain_G4SGX> need inductor then feed resistance will be abt 8ohms
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> yeah, and the whole thing with thin wires launching in the darkness is messy :)
[13:03] <craag> haha i bet
[13:04] <nats`> you can't use the 140MHz band for balloon ?
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> I think there are other ISM bands but they have patchy acceptance in the EU
[13:05] <iain_G4SGX> I think the only advantage for HF is if you can get reception via sky-wave.
[13:05] <fsphil> yep
[13:05] <craag> Yep.
[13:05] <fsphil> in all other respects it's horrible :)
[13:05] <craag> And it's 'something different'
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> definitely
[13:06] <fsphil> less frequency drift too
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> I started to appreciate the simplicity of UHF. Even wet shoestring works great
[13:07] <fsphil> the low noise floor is really nice
[13:07] <fsphil> even with all the blips and bleeps of other ism devices
[13:08] <iain_G4SGX> I like HF, its so varied, 10M is active at the moment, good long distance skip last few days, don't know how long that will last.
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[13:09] <Lunar_LanderU> wb DL7AD
[13:10] <DL1SGP> he seems to be having a bit of connection troubles today :)
[13:10] <DL7AD> Lunar_LanderU: :) thx. nach ein paar mal anrufen, hatte ich glücklicherweise jemand am apparat
[13:10] <Lunar_LanderU> yay!
[13:15] <iain_G4SGX> Yep definitely lost B16 now, i have rubbish take off to the east when line of site, buildings in the way and no tower.
[13:17] <DL1SGP> ah... well we will let it float away then :)
[13:17] <DL1SGP> maybe some danish station will pick it up once it makes landfloat there
[13:17] <DL1SGP> "landfall" sounded too scary
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> xD Arduino Tre "Coming Soon"
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[13:22] <fsphil> it's an ugly looking thing
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[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[13:23] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[13:23] <fsphil> better than the intel board though
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[13:23] <DL1SGP> ah I saw that intel monster :)
[13:24] <fsphil> yea. still not sure what they're trying to do with that
[13:28] <Lunar_LanderU> in the arduino blog about the Arduino 3 someone thinks its an attempt to beat the RPI
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[13:31] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe Galileo is an attempt to outrun RPI then
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[13:33] <LeoBodnar> How many Arduinos have been stillborn so far? Only the first few were really successful (from the outsider point of view)
[13:34] <eroomde> ?
[13:34] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[13:35] <Hix> "458.5 - 459.5 MHz" are licence exempt for use up to 100mW - is there a reason we use 434.04 – 434.79 MHz and not that part of the spectrum?
[13:35] <LeoBodnar> They had some Cortex-M3 thing that just fizzled out. Not sure why - it uses a lovely Atmel chip with HS USB.
[13:35] <eroomde> oh that makes more sense in the context of the scrollback
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[13:35] <eroomde> well, i guess arduinos were intended to sell to a market of non-electronics people
[13:36] <eroomde> i.e. introducing the idea of a microcontroller
[13:36] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, whacking them over the head with embedded Linux is a wrong move
[13:36] <eroomde> so while we may appreciate the difference between arm and avr8, it might be academic to the target market
[13:37] <Maxell> Hix: yes, duty cycle afaik
[13:37] <eroomde> indeed
[13:37] <Hix> ah oki Maxell
[13:37] <Maxell> Hix: in .nl you can do 10 mW at 100% duty cycle
[13:37] <mfa298> Hix: check duty cycle and use airborne
[13:37] <Maxell> and some higher and some lower is 100 mW max at <10% duty cycle
[13:37] <LeoBodnar> Many people have actually made a jump from Arduino to AVR8 bare bones system. I can't see this happening on ARM or Intel platform
[13:37] <eroomde> Hix, where is that ref from?
[13:37] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, yes, that too
[13:38] <Hix> eroomde http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-information/UKFAT_2013.pdf
[13:38] <eroomde> although i had been programming my pi as bare metal
[13:38] <Hix> pg.247
[13:38] <Hix> ofcom really do make it awkard to find things on their site, typical govt mentality
[13:39] <eroomde> that's for Model Control
[13:39] <eroomde> i highly suspect that if you ound the correct document elaboration, it would explcude airborne
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[13:40] <eroomde> exclude*
[13:40] <eroomde> which IR2030 does
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[13:40] <Hix> oki
[13:40] <eroomde> or rather, IR2030 explicity says what can be used airborne
[13:40] <eroomde> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR_2030.pdf
[13:40] <mfa298> for one of the bits of 458 in ir2030 the RSPB might not be happy with us using it: Equipment affixed to a bird may be used airborne
[13:40] <eroomde> that would be hilarious
[13:40] <eroomde> HAB
[13:40] <eroomde> high altitude birds
[13:41] <Hix> eagle mounted goPro
[13:41] <mfa298> ir2030 doesn't specify that the bird has to be living
[13:41] <eroomde> they put cameras on a peregrin falcon iirc
[13:42] <eroomde> the one that can dive at 280mph or whatever it is
[13:42] <eroomde> was quite impressive
[13:42] <DL1SGP> hehe mfa298
[13:42] <eroomde> mfa298, you have a career in law if electronics doesn't work out
[13:42] <Hix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G3QrhdfLCO8#t=1
[13:42] Action: mfa298 is still waiting for the dead parrot reference
[13:43] <mfa298> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE
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[13:49] <Babs> Afternoon afternoon, ping Upu
[13:50] <DL1SGP> Good afternoon Babs
[13:50] <eroomde> IGBTs are amazing
[13:50] <Babs> Hi DL1SGP
[13:50] <eroomde> 200A 600V switching ability in a single package
[13:51] <Babs> a single, heavy package presumably
[13:54] <mattbrejza> na SOT23
[13:54] <mattbrejza> (if only)
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[13:55] <eroomde> SOT-227
[13:55] <eroomde> scre terminals
[13:55] <mattbrejza> thats not actually that big
[13:56] <eroomde> you basically water-jet cut sheets of copper with appropriate mounting holes and screw them down onto the IGBTs
[13:56] <eroomde> which are mounted to a slab of ali to act as some heat sinking
[13:56] <mattbrejza> was thinking about those brick sized ones
[13:56] <eroomde> nope
[13:56] <eroomde> it's not bad is it
[13:56] <eroomde> http://www.vishay.com/docs/93196/gt100da1.pdf
[13:56] <eroomde> that'n
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[13:58] <Hix> hey Babs
[13:58] <eroomde> switching freqs are basically audio
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[13:58] <mattbrejza> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IGBT_3300V_1200A_Mitsubishi.jpg a slightly bigger one...
[13:58] <eroomde> :)
[13:58] <mattbrejza> ah audio is nothing...
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[13:58] <mattbrejza> well maybe for high power stuff
[13:59] <mattbrejza> havnt gone much above 5A personally
[13:59] <mattbrejza> the inside looks interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IGBT_2441.JPG
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[14:00] <Babs> Hey Hix - Solman dude came through on the CF machining. He can do me an A3 machined sheet for £25 (service only, I provide the materials) basis.
[14:00] <Babs> which works for me
[14:01] <Hix> bonzer
[14:01] <Hix> what sort of tolerance does he reckon he can cut to?
[14:01] <Babs> hmmm. i should have asked that question.
[14:01] <Babs> arf
[14:01] Action: Hix sets about carbon stuff for no reason other than carbon is shiny
[14:02] <Hix> ooh a cusom quadcopter could be easily feasible
[14:02] <Babs> if you look on this vid, this is his old machine http://blog.networkedsolutions.co.uk/?m=201208 apparently and the pieces he has out look pretty tidy
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[14:03] <Babs> although whether they are correct to 0.1mm, 0.2mm or whatever is beyond the resolution of my monitor
[14:03] <Hix> :)
[14:03] <Babs> custom quadcopter definitely feasible
[14:03] <Babs> I'm half tempted to build an RB7 in my living room
[14:03] <Hix> great for gimbal testing too
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> taking apart industrial servo drives is very nice learning experience about system engineering including IGBTs
[14:04] <Hix> might be tricky in planar sections Babs ;)
[14:04] <Babs> I already have no hair, i just need a manual drawing board and a slightly weird social manner and I could be adrian newey
[14:04] <Hix> would you affectionately call her "Kinky Kylie"
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> low power ones from Mitsubishi or NEC, 100W-300W
[14:05] <Hix> that is an impressive price - I cant help but think he's probably going to use >£20 of wear to the cutting tool
[14:06] <Babs> I got my 2mm pre preg A3 carbon fibre sheet. it is pretty cool. I spent the whole weekend using it as a beer tray.
[14:06] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, having to design up some atm
[14:06] <Babs> it supported 6 pints at peak with minimal flexing
[14:06] <eroomde> ~15kW
[14:07] <LeoBodnar> continuous?!
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[14:17] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, thankfully not
[14:17] <eroomde> just for <30s
[14:18] <eroomde> needle valves for controlling mass flow into engines
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[14:21] <LeoBodnar> Servo drives are amazing, they allow x5-6 overload for peak current vs continuous
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> Mostly limited by heat dissipation
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> So yours probably have to be around 3kW continuous
[14:25] <eroomde> the other amusing thing
[14:25] <eroomde> guess the most expensive bit
[14:25] <eroomde> thought it would be the IGBTs at about £35/ea
[14:25] <eroomde> nope!
[14:25] <eroomde> Caps at about £300/ea
[14:26] <Upu> hey Babs here now
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> Haha yes, possibly 105C or 120C ones
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> Next to possibly good connectors
[14:27] <Babs> Hey Upu - picked this up this morning http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/100090-pwc-sells-sarantel-assets?utm_source=eastmidlands_newsletter&utm_medium=deals_article&utm_campaign=eastmidlands_news_tracker
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> Are you using 340V DC bus?
[14:28] <Hix> are you going to buy Sarantels stock up Babs?
[14:28] <Babs> Its already gone
[14:28] <Upu> interesting
[14:28] <Babs> so it basically says
[14:29] <Hix> bum
[14:29] <Babs> all of the operating company has gone and been sold. Whether that means that the new owner will sell product or not is obviously unclear
[14:29] <Upu> yup
[14:29] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, not decided yet
[14:29] <Upu> I think for the moment we can assume no products
[14:29] <Babs> but the normal thing with this kind of company will be that the gross margin for the antennas will be large, and worth pursuing
[14:29] <Hix> shame you couldn't have done a Royal Mail and undervalued it and bought it for 50p
[14:30] <Babs> but the business itself was subscale and couldn't afford the operating base to support it
[14:30] <Babs> (losses greater than sales is the clue here)
[14:30] <Babs> so if it has gone to trade, I think there is a good chance you will see product again soon
[14:31] <Babs> and i can't imagine anyone other than trade buying it, unless there is a lot of kit that could be auctioned off in a high tech episode of Storage Wars
[14:31] <Babs> I'll keep an eye out
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: how big are these valves?
[14:31] <eroomde> this big
[14:32] <eroomde> |---------------------------------|
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[14:33] <Hix> whats that in imperial
[14:33] <mfa298> still this big |---------------------------------|
[14:33] <Hix> I'm not counting them
[14:34] Action: mfa298 may have no idea what that really is in metric or imperial
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> My micro SD sockets just arrived for my PCBs. Seriously, how the heck am I supposed to solder those on!? :)
[14:34] <Hix> carefully ;)
[14:34] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, I might do the star-star and star-delta trick to make a 12 pulse rectifier
[14:34] <eroomde> that's at whatever voltage it is
[14:34] <eroomde> lower than 340V
[14:34] <eroomde> i forget exactly
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[14:34] <eroomde> but it's nice and smoth and the harmonics are at least 12x higher than the AC freq
[14:34] <eroomde> so easy to clean up
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> The [ins are inside, I'm not quite sure where I should bring the iron in Hix. Have you soldered a micro sd socket before?
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> pins*
[14:35] <eroomde> yes
[14:35] <eroomde> 1) stencil for super easy
[14:35] <eroomde> 2) a long fine tip
[14:35] <eroomde> pre-tin and go through the gaps in the top of the holder
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> sounds complex. I've not got a long fine tip yet. Not sure which to get
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[14:36] <eroomde> it's not complex
[14:36] <eroomde> you just have to get the tip onto the pin
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[14:36] <eroomde> it's like normal soldering
[14:36] <eroomde> just with more stuff in the way
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> what do you mean by stencil?
[14:37] <eroomde> 1 and 2 were either or
[14:37] <eroomde> noth both
[14:37] <eroomde> solder stencil is the eaiest way do populate PCBs
[14:37] <eroomde> pics speak a thousand words
[14:37] <eroomde> so
[14:37] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/sets/72157629174453806/
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[14:38] <eroomde> observe the microsd card slot on that pcb
[14:38] <Hix> http://i.imgur.com/1Ycn6dP.jpg
[14:38] <Hix> ahh
[14:38] <Babs> ibanezmatt13. if you don't have them, and aren't using a reflow oven, then I certainly find that the tools that you can buy (picks etc.) to hold the components down are useful too.
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> I see
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[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> So maybe I can tack the 4 corners down, then using a long tip just bodge it and hope for the best :/
[14:39] <eroomde> yes
[14:39] <eroomde> that's what i did when i had to remove and replace the microsd by hand
[14:39] <eroomde> tack the corners
[14:40] <eroomde> then i think i took the iron tip in from the top and fine solder in from the slot's mouth
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I was thinking. Next step for me is to find the right tip out of the hundreds that exist
[14:40] <eroomde> it's pervsere isn't it
[14:40] <eroomde> most of them are optimised for some tiny specific task in a production environment
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[14:40] <eroomde> just get 2-3
[14:41] <eroomde> a fat one, a finer one (but the really shapr point are usually useless) and maybe a gullwing
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> another ting, the plug looks strange. It has 3 points on it but they're angled strangely
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> thing*
[14:41] <eroomde> photo
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> erm, one sec
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: http://www.adaptelec.com/images/plugs_outlets/germany-socketfit.jpg
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> bottom left it looks like :/
[14:42] <eroomde> oh the mains socket!
[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[14:43] <eroomde> ok
[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> it said 220v so I assumed that was correct
[14:43] <Hix> cut it off and attach a uk one
[14:43] <eroomde> yeah you'll need to change that
[14:43] <eroomde> yes, the good news is austrialia and china are 220V
[14:43] <eroomde> so that's fine
[14:43] <eroomde> just put on a uk socket
[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> how do I do that?
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[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> do they not do adapters
[14:44] <Hix> just get a uk plug and replace it - ~50p
[14:44] <eroomde> chop the other one off
[14:44] <eroomde> with cutters
[14:44] <eroomde> strip it back (stanley knife)
[14:44] <Babs> ermmm. *safety babs should point out here that if you are doing it (and it is easy), make sure your Dad gets to help you with it*
[14:44] <eroomde> the out insulation, that is
[14:44] <Hix> http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/images/openplug.jpg
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> and there's no risk of death
[14:45] <eroomde> well there is if you do this while it's plugged in
[14:45] <eroomde> so don't
[14:45] <daveake> of course there's a risk of death
[14:45] <daveake> as above
[14:45] <eroomde> but if it's unplugged you'll be fine
[14:45] <Hix> you could sever an artery with the cutters
[14:45] <Babs> there is always a risk of death, its just that my tolerance to death is lower in mince pie production than rocket engineers and f1 engineers
[14:45] <eroomde> and just make sure you do a nice job
[14:45] <eroomde> no loose strands of copper wire
[14:46] <Babs> daveake - nice pics of the 135
[14:46] <daveake> ah yes
[14:46] <Hix> tin the ends for a really neat job ibanezmatt13
[14:46] <Babs> i miss mine :-(
[14:46] <eroomde> i find it impossible to bend them in if i tin them
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> ok, if you don't hear from me again in the next few days, fear the worst
[14:47] <Hix> I always remove the pins and screw the wire in and then route them back into the plug
[14:47] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, also resist the urge to strip back too much of the outer insulation
[14:47] <Hix> 135 Babs / daveake ?
[14:47] <eroomde> you should only need 3cm or so
[14:48] <Hix> mm?
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> this whole operation is destined to be a painful disaster
[14:48] <mfa298> I think tinning wires for screw terminals is generally frowned upon, I usually just strip and twist the cable.
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> Hmm 15kW for 30 seconds won't work on domestic power supply
[14:48] <Hix> 3cm could be a little likely to short somewhere :)
[14:48] <mfa298> being able to wire a plug is a useful skill to learn.
[14:49] Action: DL1SGP has a UK multi socket that he fit a Schuko connector to in order to use devices obtained in UK once back to Germany
[14:49] <Hix> ibanezmatt13 is it not on GCSE physics /combined science curriculum anymore?
[14:49] <Brace> definitely don't strip too much
[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> they don't teach you anything at all anympre
[14:49] <DL1SGP> being able to wire a plug is a useful skill for becoming a HAM in UK :)
[14:49] Action: Brace made that mistake while wiring a cooker
[14:49] <Hix> wow - I really thought that would be a main thing to teach
[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> So if I wired the wrong wires to the wrong things in the plug. What would happen?
[14:49] <Hix> RDC pop!
[14:49] <Hix> RCD
[14:49] <Hix> grrr
[14:50] <daveake> Hix elise 135
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> pop - death or pop - power cut?
[14:50] <Hix> ohh i figured 135 would be 2 or 4 wheeled - yours?
[14:50] <daveake> 4
[14:50] <daveake> yes
[14:51] <Hix> yes - i meant the number would refer to 2/4 I'd hope the elise would have 4 unless you parked in in Moss-Side
[14:51] <Babs> I have some smart photos of my Mk1 during the food and mouth crisis
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> will I need to put a fuse in myself?
[14:51] <Hix> UK plug should have a fuse ibanezmatt13
[14:51] <Babs> edit: it wasn't in front of a dead cow, it was more that you could put it behind the no entry barriers and place it at 45 degrees in the middle of the road and take photos of it from a stepladder
[14:51] <Hix> ibanezmatt13 http://goo.gl/lgxzQR
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> but will it be the correct rating?
[14:52] <mfa298> you might need to change the fuse.
[14:52] <Hix> depends on what rating the fuse is....
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> 13A seems to be popular on Maplin
[14:52] <mfa298> plugs normally come with a 13A fuse, chances are a soldering iron will need much less than that (work it out with P=IV)
[14:53] <mfa298> 13A is the max rating for a UK plug so the plug should be rated for that
[14:53] <DL1SGP> ibanezmatt13: I will scan in 2 pages from a book for you :)
[14:53] <daveake> The fuse has to be rated for no more than the cable is rated for
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13> very kind of you, thanks
[14:53] <daveake> Otherwise the cable is your fuse
[14:53] <daveake> Which is bad
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> god knows what the rating of the cable is
[14:54] <daveake> Get a 3A fuses job jobbed
[14:54] <mfa298> and ideally the smallest fuse that the device needs (probably 3A for a soldering iron unless it's a big beast)
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> 48W
[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> I think
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> I've gotta go do some maths, thanks for all the advice. I'll go buy a plug :)
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[14:58] <Hix> they seriously dont do plugs or P=IV on GCSE curriculum anymore?
[14:59] Action: Hix fears the fewcheeeerr
[14:59] <PE2G> Currently, I'm on Odenwald GT
[15:00] <DL1SGP> hi PE2G
[15:00] <PE2G> Receiving bips on 13.555.3
[15:00] <mfa298> I'm not sure I did much with plugs at GCSE/A-Level and that was too many years ago to want to work out how long ago it was
[15:00] <PE2G> No data
[15:00] <mfa298> although I'm sure we did some P=IV and V=IR in GCSE science
[15:00] <Hix> no offense to Matt whatsoever, but I see a surprising irony in someone designing and building their own tracker PCB but having to research a UK plug.
[15:01] <Hix> a reflection on the school system
[15:01] <jcoxon> PE2G, ooo i can see the pips
[15:01] <DL1SGP> well whenever ibanezmatt13 comes back and I should not be around feel free to share http://felix-techie.org/plug.pdf
[15:02] <PE2G> jcoxon: What do you think, is it B-16?
[15:02] <DL1SGP> I can see the pips too :) but I do not think it is B-16
[15:02] <eroomde> i did plugs for GCSE
[15:02] <jcoxon> they are about 3secs apart
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[15:03] <jcoxon> would expect some data though
[15:03] <mfa298> realisically theres not much need to know how to wire a plug these days unless you do something more specialist and I can see schools not wanting to do much about it in case someone goes home and electrocutes themselves
[15:03] <Hix> is seems from looking at the AQA site that it is now places in "Additional Science" - truly shocking
[15:03] <jcoxon> or a large gap where the data should be
[15:03] <eroomde> although (this old debate) there is a lot of heat and noise from some quarters about flying on repeater frequencies despite there being no known incidents of interference, i note from reading the band plan just now that the following footnote seems to sppear everywhere where AR is a secondary user
[15:03] <eroomde> "Secondary User: Users must accept interference from ISM users."
[15:04] <Hix> if there was ever any f^&*(&*$$ science that would be considered essential - that would be in the top 3
[15:04] <PE2G> jcoxon: No data for at least 15 mins
[15:04] <jcoxon> don't think its it then
[15:04] <eroomde> Hix, 'truly shocking'
[15:04] <eroomde> deliberate?
[15:04] <jcoxon> also the pips aren't as regular as i thought
[15:04] <mfa298> there's something to be said for teaching useful skills (wiring a plug) and then let survival of the fittest take over.
[15:04] <Hix> pun-central
[15:05] <jcoxon> freq is a bit high
[15:05] <jcoxon> should be 13.553Mhz
[15:05] <daveake> Should have told him that the live pin is actually the death pin
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Proper treatment of epilepsy has really helped survival of the fittest.
[15:06] <PE2G> jcoxon: No freq drift?
[15:07] <jcoxon> didn't sound like it earlier when it was being rx'd
[15:07] <jcoxon> G4SGX's radio was unattended
[15:07] <jcoxon> and didn't need retuning
[15:13] <jcoxon> PE2G, its like a needle in a haystack
[15:15] <PE2G> jcoxon: Yeah
[15:15] <jcoxon> i'll go an look on another GT
[15:15] <Hix> the whole plug thing has made me want to punch Gove in the face - even more than normal
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[15:15] <PE2G> jcoxon: OK
[15:16] <PE2G> Anybody who knows whether B-16's freq was drifting or not?
[15:17] <fsphil> he has that effect Hix
[15:18] <Hix> dunno what makes you say that fsphil http://goo.gl/OWx6b2
[15:18] <fsphil> haha
[15:19] <fsphil> that'll teach him
[15:20] <Hix> nice punnage
[15:20] <LeoBodnar> PE2G: it shouldn't drift much as this is 13.553 MHz vs usual 434.5 so the drift should be in the order of few Hz
[15:20] <LeoBodnar> punned down
[15:20] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: Thanks for the info, Leo
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[15:25] <Laurenceb_> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/652945597/red-pitaya-open-instruments-for-everyone
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[15:29] <LeoBodnar> For some reason I utterly despise the term "makers" as in "MAKERS & DIY ENTHUSIASTS"
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> me too
[15:30] <PA1SDB> Listening whole afternooon for B-16 via WebSDR Twente and looking with Argo and DL-FLdigi, but nothing here....
[15:31] <Hix> not in this context though Laurenceb http://goo.gl/FnTClW
[15:33] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, i remember stumbling across some rant to this effect by you on eevblog :)
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[15:35] <Hix> Furze at it again http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EorMrpM6q9Q#t=1
[15:35] <LeoBodnar> lol I haven't been there for a year or two, is it still alive or succumbed to Arduino related drag ?
[15:35] <chrisstubbs> Hix apparently he got pretty badly hurt by it :P
[15:37] <Hix> makes it even more impressive chrisstubbs a true pioneer
[15:38] <Hix> "no worries, he’s wearing his safety tie" on the hackaday page - genius
[15:41] <HA6NN> Hello all, I was listening to SP9UOB for two days, rxed ant uploaded telemetry for two days but I am not shown on UKHAS Listeners Map. How can I registrate again?
[15:42] <jcoxon> HA6NN, oh you are registered immediately
[15:42] <jcoxon> by using dl-fldigi
[15:42] <jcoxon> HA6NN 2248 lines
[15:42] <HA6NN> Hello jcoxon, I can't see "my ant tower" on the map... :(
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[15:43] <jcoxon> HA6NN, oh you need to make sure you've entered lat and lon and alt into the config part
[15:43] <jcoxon> which need to be in decimal
[15:43] <HA6NN> jcoxon: Yes, I was using dl-fldidgi
[15:44] <HA6NN> Well, I am now to start dl-fldidgi and we'll se what happens...
[15:44] <PB0NER> 13.553 ... LSB?
[15:44] <jcoxon> PB0NER, USB
[15:45] <PB0NER> I do hear some domino alike signal .. can not make it out in the WF though
[15:46] <HA6NN> What mode may I choose on 13553 USB? RTTY 50 baud 470 Hz shift?
[15:46] <jcoxon> its dominoEX
[15:46] <jcoxon> DominoEX4
[15:48] <HA6NN> There I am --on 13.553 USB FT-847 and 41 m multiband OCF-dipole...
[15:48] <HA6NN> Just a minute!
[15:49] <HA6NN> DominoEX4 chosen...
[15:50] <PB0NER> autoconfigure..
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[15:52] <PB0NER> US NAVY (or whatever) is putting up huge signal there
[15:52] <HA6NN> RRRR Autoconfigure...
[15:52] <HA6NN> Done
[15:52] <HA6NN> tjanos: Hi
[15:55] <PB0NER> HA6NN: do you receive anything?
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[15:55] <PB0NER> question... is it sending continuously or intermittant?
[15:56] <PB0NER> B16
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[15:57] <tjanos> Good afternoon, szia Andras
[15:58] <HA6NN> PB0NER: Vy weak RTTY like sigs -and QRN...
[15:58] <HA6NN> eee QRM
[15:58] <PB0NER> qrm is S6/S7 here...
[15:58] <HA6NN> tjanos: Szia!
[15:58] <PB0NER> occasionally I hear something
[15:59] <tjanos> do you talk about receiving B-16?
[15:59] <HA6NN> I did autoconfigure again but I am still not on the map!
[16:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> HA6NN, refresh your browser window
[16:01] <PB0NER> vacuum cleaner QRM here
[16:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> you are on the display here as 0 Hours
[16:01] <jcoxon> yeah i can see you HA6NN on the map
[16:01] <HA6NN> G8HDE: Hello, Thanks! Good idea. :)
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[16:04] <HA6NN> I am still not on the map, neither HA8AR nor HA713SWL
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[16:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> HA6NN, http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/Capture.JPG
[16:06] <Lunar_LanderU> HA6NN: try a refresh of the browser page
[16:07] <PB0NER> hmm if that is his location.... good luck with B-16
[16:07] <Lunar_LanderU> I can see you, HA2ECM and HA8AR
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: when I cut the plug off, will the three wires be coloured in the same way as UK cables?
[16:07] <DL1SGP> ibanezmatt13: http://felix-techie.org/plug.pdf
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> thanks DL1SGP
[16:08] <HA6NN> Lunar_LanderU: I have done it several times -not to mention the zwo day long activity with rxing SP9UOB continuously for som 18 hours or so...
[16:08] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[16:08] <Lunar_LanderU> strange, here I can see you
[16:08] <Lunar_LanderU> and I notice a person in Israel!
[16:08] <Lunar_LanderU> cool :)
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[16:09] <Lunar_LanderU> well
[16:09] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later!
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[16:10] <HA6NN> G8HDE: Got it! Thanks!
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[16:14] <yo2loj> The same RTTY-like signal here on 13.555, S9
[16:14] <Upu> not going to be S9 :)
[16:15] <yo2loj> sounds like an intermodulation or something...
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[16:16] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-WN8kPolug
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> epic troll
[16:18] <HA6NN> Disturbing carrier was notched out. No signal from the balloon yet.
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[16:18] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[16:19] <yo2loj> is it exactly on 13553?
[16:20] <PB0NER> does not really matter
[16:20] <yo2loj> to know what to look for :-)
[16:20] <PB0NER> why is 13.xxx choosen?
[16:20] <yo2loj> ISM
[16:21] <PB0NER> what power, what polarisation?
[16:21] <x-f> 10 mW, vertical
[16:21] <PB0NER> I know it is ISM... rthere should be a reason to 'experiment' there I guess
[16:22] <mfa298> you mean like experimenting to see how well low power HF works at altitude
[16:23] <PB0NER> hmmm vertical seems logical, hard for me though, I'm on a sloped FD-3
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[16:23] <PB0NER> I mean like why HF ISM, when 70cm seems functioning fine..
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[16:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its just an experiemnt PB0NER, I asked the same this morning, I can't see how HF helps due to the varyig propogation that occurs
[16:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> *varying
[16:24] <mfa298> with several of Leo's balloons UHF hasn't been fine when they go out of LOS of a receiver. In theory HF should give some skywave although in practice 10mW and a short antenna might not allow for much useful skywave
[16:25] <craag> It's something different to try, different is good :)
[16:26] <Vostok> what's the timestamp in the B-16 observations at spacenear.us?
[16:26] <Vostok> timezone, i mean
[16:26] <mfa298> some experimentation like this (even if it's not successful) is good stuff to show the RSGB/Ofcom in support of /AM
[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> The last timestamp received from the payload
[16:26] <Vostok> yeah, but is it 12 UTC?
[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> or time of receipt byhabtat to be precise I thiunk
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[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes midday in the UK when it passed out of range
[16:27] <craag> yes 12 UTC
[16:27] <Vostok> but is midday in UK == 12 UTC?-) I suppose it's DST in UK
[16:27] <Upu> all sounds good mfa298 but I think they'll then stop us on beaconing rules
[16:28] <craag> so 13:00 in the UK
[16:28] <Vostok> yeah, ok
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[16:30] <mfa298> Upu: looking at some of the litmus test bits it looks like there's some serious consideration for /AM - and there's some discussion about APRS so might be able to prompt looking at beaconing rules in relation to those.
[16:30] <Upu> they don't like unattended beacons
[16:30] <Upu> heck have you seen the hoops you have to go through for a digirepeater ?
[16:30] <Upu> three people who can close it down at 2 hours notice
[16:31] <Upu> being able to use airborne APRS would be nice though
[16:31] <mfa298> looks like various bits are being looked at regarding the license so now's the time to speak out about them.
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[16:32] <Upu> yep
[16:32] <Upu> I guess we can ask
[16:32] <Upu> exemptions for balloons
[16:32] <Upu> would be fine
[16:32] <craag> Upu: Stick it on my document and I'll quiz them about it this wkend.
[16:32] <mfa298> Just added a line about Beaconing and shutdown on craags document
[16:32] <craag> cheers
[16:32] <craag> (it's mainly so I can remember everything)
[16:32] <Upu> our payloads are effectively beacons which is why I think thats also something to consider
[16:33] <Upu> however
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[16:33] <Upu> our restrictions have made this community what it is
[16:33] <Upu> and lets be honest has it impeded us ?
[16:33] <craag> tbh I wouldn't be a fan of using APRS
[16:33] <Upu> we've got more out of much less :)
[16:33] <craag> It's far slower update rate.
[16:33] <Upu> with the tracking network what it is now
[16:34] <mfa298> I think it would be good to still persuade people towards the ukhas method for standard telemetry.
[16:34] <craag> I'm more after easy uplink, tv downlink, that kind of thing.
[16:34] <Upu> unless you go southern Spain we have good coverage right out to Russia
[16:34] <Upu> where APRS sucks anyway
[16:34] <mfa298> Amateur space would be good for TV and HF which are harder to do within existing ISM spectrum
[16:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> there is that, but it perhaps has limitied the amount of data that can be transffered, choices of video etc. come to mind
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[16:34] <Upu> two way comms
[16:34] <Upu> airborne repeaters
[16:35] <Upu> and video
[16:35] <Upu> and airborne HF with some power would be nice
[16:35] <Upu> thats my shopping list
[16:35] <mfa298> Just added HF into the list list as well :D
[16:37] <iain_G4SGX> Wouldn't get too excited yet..quote:'do not expect things to change in a hurry, any proposal to Ofcom will be forwarded to the CAA who are unlikely to be receptive. I therefore expect a lengthy set of exchanges where the RSGB will need to do a lot of lobbying.'. Will take some time I think and we may not get what we want.
[16:37] <Upu> At the end of the day being a radio amateur is about experimentation, making stuff and trying new things
[16:37] <Gadget-Mac> The problem with any unattended operation is what happens when it goes wrong, how for example do you turn a balloon off ;)
[16:38] <Upu> I think HABing is more in line with the principles of being an amateur than the radio trainspotting that is exchanging signal reports
[16:39] <Gadget-Mac> Others would disagree ;)
[16:39] <Upu> indeed :)
[16:39] <Gadget-Mac> Most of my ham usage was running packet radio.
[16:39] <Upu> yeah I still think the sticking point to all this is unattended beaconing
[16:40] <Upu> but lets see
[16:40] <Upu> we can but ask
[16:40] <Upu> I never got a response to my NoV request for airborne APRS from a balloon btw
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> "exchanging signal reports" from stock radios running via stock antennas
[16:41] <Upu> and in a wonderful demosontration about how physics doesn't care I was digirepeated by two UK stations whilst over German airspace
[16:41] <Gadget-Mac> I've been involved in a case with the RA and CAA when unattended operations went wrong ;)
[16:41] <Upu> demonstration..
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[16:43] <Upu> I think one mitigating factor is by definition a balloon is going to be a transient source of interference
[16:43] <Upu> unless Leo launches a solar powered pumpkin SP that stays up for months
[16:44] <Upu> I don't think its gone unaware at the RSGB that what we do is bringing younger people into the hobby
[16:45] <Gadget-Mac> Well even a 2 hour flight, if the TX goes wrong is going to cause issues.
[16:45] <Upu> indeed
[16:45] <Upu> across a wide area
[16:45] <Upu> another reason you may not want to start down this line is it could open a can of worms :)
[16:46] <Upu> like the wonderful RFM22B should be used at all
[16:46] <Upu> shouldn't be
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[16:47] <Gadget-Mac> Only real issue is if it's 2M (we as far as CAA is concerned).
[16:48] <Upu> anyway I look forward to what gets put forward and to what response we get
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[16:49] <Upu> cheers for taking the time to present it
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[16:50] <mfa298> I think it could be particularly interesting to see what non ukhas people say once something appears on the rsgb litmus test forum (which sounded like it might happen in a week or two)
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[16:58] <Gadget-Mac> Here's an interesting question, how many people can 'we' attribute taking the ham exam directly to balloon experiments ?
[16:58] <adamgreig> I for one
[16:58] <adamgreig> but I don't actually use my license, like, ever
[16:58] <daveake> me
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> Me too
[16:59] <adamgreig> I would probably use mine /am if I could :P
[16:59] <craag> there's the 6 from the conf
[16:59] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, lets clarify that question. People who took the exam because of HAB. Not having a licence and doing HAB.
[17:00] <mfa298> I think there's a fair number who've got a license due to ukhas (and equally a number of previously licensed people who've done more AR style experimentation because of ukhas)
[17:00] <craag> Gadget-Mac: All of the above qualify for that I believe.
[17:00] <daveake> yup
[17:00] <iain_G4SGX> Is someone creating a UKHAS proposal ? signed by all 'members' ? Would give weight to any proposals at RSGB maybe OFCOM, though I doubt the later.
[17:00] <craag> I don't.
[17:01] <eroomde> Hix, yo
[17:01] <eroomde> hour of need
[17:01] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac, i too
[17:01] <Gadget-Mac> iain_G4SGX: What I think is more important would be to identify licenced amateurs backing the proposal
[17:01] <Ugi> Is there actually an official UKHAS "membership"? If so, I probably owe a membership fee!
[17:01] <eroomde> Ugi, no
[17:01] <iain_G4SGX> Bring back the home office i say. lol
[17:01] <mfa298> I had my license before doing HAB but I think the HAB side has got me doing a lot more AR style experimentation than I'd done before.
[17:01] <craag> iain_G4SGX: That I emailed the link too isn't. It's a sheet of things for me to keep in mind when cornering ppl at the rsgb convention.
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[17:02] <eroomde> i got the license so i could legally manufacture radio stuff
[17:02] <iain_G4SGX> Aha cool
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[17:03] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: Erm hows that work then ?
[17:03] <eroomde> manufacture as in make for experiments, rather than go into production
[17:03] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac, because the license grants you the right to make and use your own equipment
[17:03] <Gadget-Mac> Thats not manufacturing, thats experimentation.
[17:03] <daveake> I got the license because I got fed up of being heckled hereabouts for not having one :p
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[17:03] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac, how about read what i said above your question
[17:03] <iain_G4SGX> Peer pressure eh? its a killer.
[17:04] <iain_G4SGX> :)
[17:04] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: your response arrived after I sent the question ;)
[17:04] <craag> Still a lowly M6 though aren't you Dave ;)
[17:04] <daveake> ok ok .... :)
[17:04] <eroomde> Hix, !!
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[17:05] <Gadget-Mac> eroomde: I'm not being negative, just have to be careful what wording you use. Some hams are real pedants.
[17:05] <daveake> I plan on attaining the full monty in time for the RSGB allowing airborne use :)
[17:05] <eroomde> Gadget-Mac, yes i know
[17:05] <eroomde> usually it's worth baitng them
[17:05] <eroomde> because they are annoying
[17:06] <eroomde> i once heard a very amusing exchnage at a rocketry thing
[17:06] <Gadget-Mac> Yes, but they're the same people that will object to the sort of proposals we are trying to put forward, and carry some weight.
[17:06] <eroomde> someone was using a downlink on a rocket that was 2 watts, and a yagi on 900MHz or something
[17:06] <eroomde> they had got the experimental permit, and were testing a modem they'd built
[17:06] <eroomde> a ham there spotting the yagi went over to enquire
[17:07] <Ugi> Just a thought - would a proposal for broader airbourne use by those with an AR license please both sides?
[17:07] <eroomde> and started to object in a very self importnat way
[17:07] <Ugi> would encourage people to train and qualify
[17:07] <eroomde> there was the line "I'm a highly experienced radio amateur and..."
[17:07] <Ugi> and would give those who made the effort access to more freq's
[17:07] <eroomde> which was cut off by the rocket owner with 'Yeah? well i'm a radio professional, so fuck off"
[17:07] <daveake> lol
[17:07] <Gadget-Mac> hehe
[17:08] <eroomde> it was about the most satisfying exchnage I've ever witnessed
[17:08] <craag> lol I bet
[17:09] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, out of curiosity is UKHAS an actual entity or purely a virtual organisation ?
[17:09] <adamgreig> hah
[17:09] <adamgreig> purely virtual, as you put it
[17:10] <craag> one thing I like about the BATC community is that some of them have worked professionally in tv broadcasting, so have their head on straight.
[17:10] <eroomde> yes
[17:10] <Gadget-Mac> Indeed.
[17:10] <eroomde> and they seem to be aware of the pitfalls of large numbers of hams in a room
[17:11] <Gadget-Mac> lol.
[17:12] <craag> I haven't been to the rsgb convention before... it's going to be interesting.
[17:12] <craag> Maybe I should carry around an audio recorder to post conversation snippets.
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[17:13] <mattbrejza> i was wondering about applying for an experimental licence thing, but have no idea on what frequency to ask for
[17:13] <mattbrejza> dont suppose you know how he got 900MHz eroomde ?
[17:13] <eroomde> nope
[17:13] <eroomde> presume just via the usual experimental permits
[17:14] <eroomde> he was something to do with UAV research
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[17:14] <mattbrejza> hmm ok, nm then
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[17:14] <Gadget-Mac> If it was part of his day job then it's fairly easy to get permits I would imagine.
[17:15] <eroomde> yeah
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[17:15] <eroomde> they're fairly well set up to support industrial R&D
[17:15] <eroomde> doing stuff as a private individual is harder
[17:16] <eroomde> they might come round to check your equipment and so on
[17:16] <eroomde> i think they just want to check you're sane
[17:16] <eroomde> if you have enough test equipment and don't look like a nit job, you'll be fine
[17:16] <mattbrejza> there are people i could probably ask nicely, lets see how the AR thing turns out for now
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[17:43] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[17:49] <la3eq-jan> frequency of B-16 please?
[17:50] <DL1SGP> 13.553 MHz
[17:50] <DL1SGP> hi jan :)
[17:50] <la3eq-jan> shortwave?
[17:50] PH3V (~phv@ip5456e3dc.speed.planet.nl) left irc: Quit: Quit
[17:50] <DL1SGP> yes
[17:50] <la3eq-jan> ok...tnx
[17:50] LeoBodnar_ (5ec49c18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.196.156.24) joined #highaltitude.
[17:50] <DL1SGP> using DomEX4 with 10mW
[17:51] <DL1SGP> 13.553Mhz USB approximately 1475 on the waterfall, standard 3 second beeps and telemetry every 2 mins
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[17:56] <Upu> if you're bored of trying to locate B-16, B-17 is on the map :)
[17:59] <DL1SGP> heh
[17:59] <Upu> and up
[18:00] <ehplon> hi, just convinced the shortwave-RX to listen for B-16 :-)
[18:00] <Upu> or maybe not
[18:00] <ehplon> ephlon??? is that me?
[18:00] <Upu> lol
[18:01] <Upu> yes :)
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[18:01] <eroomde> ehplon, ziggy has sent you to UKHAS, the year is 2013
[18:01] <PA1SDB> I did listen active whole afternoon for B16 via WebSDR in Twente NLD, but no luck...
[18:01] <arko> lol
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[18:01] <Upu> lol
[18:01] <det__> nickname is better now :-)
[18:01] <Upu> you can type /nick ...
[18:02] <det__> ah, good to know
[18:02] <PA1SDB> Still listening, but no sign of Domino 4 sounds or beeps...
[18:02] <Upu> I think its going to be hard to RX it PA1SDB
[18:02] <DL1SGP> same here PA1SDB ...
[18:02] <Upu> 10mW
[18:02] <PE0SAT> Maybe add WebSDR Eindhoven
[18:02] <Upu> anyway there is a 70cms one going up shortly
[18:03] <Upu> already up I think
[18:03] <Upu> yep B-17 in the air
[18:03] <DL1SGP> so LeoBodnar_ is in "a floater a day" mode :D ?
[18:03] <PA1SDB> Yes, raining balloons here...
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[18:06] <x-f> he's building a network of airborne transceivers to cover the northern hemisphere
[18:07] <PA1SDB> Like Wifi repeaters :-)
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[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:10] <sv1ljj> so Leo's balloon are not get lost... they enter stealth mode!!!!
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[18:11] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
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[18:12] <x-f> true story
[18:12] Action: x-f winks.
[18:12] <sv1ljj> hahaha
[18:13] <DL1SGP> Welcome back Lunar_Lander
[18:13] <arko> sv1ljj: i still believe every B-series hab leo has launched is still floating
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[18:14] <sv1ljj> ..... waiting to be arised!!!!!
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> thanks DL1SGP
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[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> arko, no
[18:14] <arko> ello
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> B-14 and B-15 are confirmed landed
[18:14] <x-f> to add more to the conspiracy - only one B-balloon has ever been recovered, by Leo himself
[18:14] <arko> ^^^^
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> :P
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[18:15] <arko> LeoLoon Internet is coming...
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[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> did you see Arduino 3?
[18:16] <enkidu> LeoLoon tracking network ;)
[18:16] <arko> habs that track ground stations
[18:16] <x-f> !
[18:16] <enkidu> balloon navigation system!
[18:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Evening Guys :-)
[18:17] <eroomde> what is the Arduino 3? google doesn't seem to know about it
[18:17] <DL1SGP> yea HAB-PS
[18:17] Helios_STOLEN (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:17] <DL1SGP> google "Arduino Tre"
[18:17] ibanezmatt13 (6d90bfbc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.144.191.188) joined #highaltitude.
[18:17] <arko> google "arduino sucks"
[18:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Another 'B' payload up... Cool
[18:17] Action: arko awaits tomatos
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, I did the plug myself and it works :)
[18:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Arko :-)
[18:18] <enkidu> whyduino
[18:18] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, good!
[18:18] <arko> yoyo mr steve
[18:18] <eroomde> that used to be in the GCSE syllabus
[18:18] <eroomde> i believe
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> not anymore
[18:18] <eroomde> but i am glad you are still alive
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[18:18] <eroomde> you have garnered another man point
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, it is called Arduino Tre and seems to be a hybrid of AVR arduino and some Texas Instruments CPU
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I now feel like such an idiot. It was the simplest thing ever!
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardTre
[18:18] <tweetBot> @P_Knol: #UKHAS #HAB B-17 airborne.
[18:18] <DL1SGP> ibanezmatt13: glad you survived
[18:18] <eroomde> ah righty, so it has a big cortex a8 chip on it
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> thanks DL1SGP, so am I
[18:19] <arko> so it's a beagle and arduino in 1?
[18:19] <eroomde> guess you can run arduino ide on the cortex a8 and program the atmega with it directly
[18:19] <arko> or that other one
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> seems so, says "In addition, the Arduino TRE is partially the result of a close collaboration between Arduino and the BeagleBoard.org foundation."
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[18:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Raspberry Pi arko ?
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah the chip is a "1-GHz Sitara AM335x processor"
[18:19] <eroomde> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardTre
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[18:19] <arko> http://beagleboard.org/
[18:19] <DL1SGP> and with the audio output on board you can emulate a Sitar Guitar :D
[18:20] <arko> just that plus an arduino?
[18:20] <eroomde> it looks like someone has done some bad shit to the 2ouble-row pin header in the middle
[18:20] <eroomde> double*
[18:20] <arko> real "innovative"
[18:20] <arko> hahahahaha
[18:20] <arko> nice catch eroomde
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, yeah saw that this afternoon as well xD
[18:21] <eroomde> it's 2x10
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[18:21] <eroomde> jtag perhaps
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:21] <eroomde> maybe they don't want you to use jtag
[18:21] <arko> lol
[18:21] <eroomde> 'this is not the interface you're loooking for'
[18:21] <arko> from their history one can only assume
[18:21] <eroomde> 'use our happy happy smiley land IDE here, all you need is here'
[18:21] <arko> >:O no debugging for you
[18:22] <arko> "where do I look at the current state of my variables and flag lines?" "NO QUESTIONS, USE OUT IDE"
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[18:23] <enkidu> arko: for unskilled devs it is easier to code in debugging points
[18:23] <eroomde> i thought we had printf
[18:23] <eroomde> the final word in debugging
[18:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyone got a dial freq for B17 please? I can't see anything at 434.5 Could just be too low for me.
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, would you expect anywhere in England to sell tips for the Hakko FX-888?
[18:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not hearing it myself yet too low behind the Downs
[18:25] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, i'm not sure i'm afriad, but probably
[18:25] <eroomde> tried ebay?
[18:25] <eroomde> often quite good
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[18:25] <eroomde> i got a bunch of chinese iron stuff from uk people on ebay
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, there is a german forum for microcontrollers, where recently one guy asked "Is Arduino any good?" and someone just made that point "We can't just plaster our code with printf arguments to debug"
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[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take a look, thnks
[18:25] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander, they're confused
[18:25] <eroomde> you must ignore them
[18:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> It will be interesting to compare notes Geoff-G8DHE Let me know when you have it.
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> you mean the advanced guys programming in Assembler and C or the Arduino people?
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[18:26] <eroomde> any of them who suggest you can't just debug with printf
[18:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Normally has to be around 1º above local Horizon when I'm aiming North, but varies given the valleys etc.
[18:26] <eroomde> they just haven't rewritten the offending bit of code to allow debugging with printf
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> I think that was one of the advanced people who said that debuggin with printf basically is scrap
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> +g
[18:27] <eroomde> i'm teasing Lunar_Lander
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[18:27] <eroomde> being able to halt and inspect your registers is very useful
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> just running a SDR dongle no pre-amp at present.
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> let me think
[18:28] <eroomde> as is dissassemly
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah sorry I think I got it wrong
[18:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> I've not had much luck with my SDR Dongle. Will try again soon. For now it's the FT857
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[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> I think the guy didn't like that arduino just allows tracking a program by using Serial.print after every step
[18:29] <eroomde> printf debugging is super useful
[18:29] <eroomde> but it has quite a high cost in embedded
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:29] <eroomde> often causes problems itself
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[18:29] <eroomde> you basically have to undersand your pgramme and your hardware when deciding how to isolate a problem
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> true
[18:30] <eroomde> true or all x
[18:30] <eroomde> for*
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[18:30] <eroomde> and then pick the right tools
[18:30] <eroomde> right, off
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[18:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm we have a chase vehicle in Jordan!
[18:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> My first green decode on B-15 which is similar flight path was at 5988m so I'll probably start to hear it around 4000-5000m
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[18:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cripes, you must have the same sort of terrain I have here Geoff-G8DHE
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[18:35] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for the update Upu
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[18:37] <OH7JG> Good evening... Film about B-15 searching http://youtu.be/MtaTdTv1XhY Enjoy !-) (made by OH7HJ)
[18:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> I do to the North South Downs - water logged chalk - rising to 112m @7Kms away and 221m @ 40Km see http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/profileNorth.jpg
[18:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> To the South, its sea all the way to France (well near enough a little hillock 10m high at about 1Km!)
[18:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Geoff-G8DHE: I'm in a bit of a valley, higher to the North pretty clear E <--> W and shallower hill to the South
[18:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nice one OH7JG!
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[18:44] <LeoBodnar> Thanks OH7JG, can I link to this video from B-15 page?
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[18:44] <OH7JG> Yes
[18:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Your not on the map at the moment are you G0TDJ_Steve ?
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> Kiitos
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[18:45] <OH7JG> Made by OH7HJ
[18:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Geoff-G8DHE: Yep, am. Right next to Dartford
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[18:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oops thinking of the other Steve! Huddersfied way!
[18:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
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[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> Geoff-G8DHE: I'm looking for tips for my soldering iron for 0603 parts, tqfp chips and micro sd connectors. I really haven't the slightest clue as to which I should get as they make so many! http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_s.html
[18:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Evening Andy :-)
[18:48] <PA1SDB> OH7HJ Nice movie. Gives good impression of the search !
[18:48] <M6GTG_Andrew> Good evening, another balloon to track I see
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> B-16 flights tells us more about iain_G4SGX equipment and location than vagaries of HF ISM :)
[18:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, Leos' B-17 is up
[18:49] <M6GTG_Andrew> tracking as we speak ;-)
[18:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: I tried on and off all day but haven't heard B16
[18:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> I see your call on the list Andy
[18:50] <M6GTG_Andrew> nothing here on B-16 but horrendous QRM
[18:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Same here
[18:51] <HA6NN> Gentlemen, There will be JOTA (Jamboree on the Air) on 18-20 October. Does anyone know about a ballon test during that week-end?
[18:51] <M6GTG_Andrew> the QRM here drifts and it vacated the frequency for a few hours this afternoon but still didn't get anything even swapping to my normal HF antenna (random bit of wire in the loft)
[18:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> G0TDJ_Steve, Here are your cardinal profiles
[18:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/
[18:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> HA6NN: I've been invited to launch at Youlsbury Scout Centre in Oxford. I'll be launching a Pico on the 20th
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[18:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Geoff-G8DHE: Not sure what I'm looking at
[18:53] <M6GTG_Andrew> a big hill?
[18:53] <HA6NN> G0TDJ Steve: Thank you very much Steve!
[18:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ahha! I was looking at the first image geo.. LOL>>> OK Got it now
[18:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Profile starts from your location on Left and moves right for the direction specified in file name so Profile to the North is http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/index.php?ind=2
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> Thanks G0TDJ_Steve, this is really tricky one. I am not sure what is our lesson from it (yet)
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[18:55] <Rebounder> x-f: missed a 75 deg max el pass with 5 min, masat-1.. :/
[18:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> HA6NN: It will be a small flight since it's my first but I've asked EVERYONE ELSE if any of them would like to come along and release a latex at the same time
[18:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah can just here Domino
[18:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> very faint on w/f
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[18:56] <LeoBodnar> I think I can often hear Domino even where I shouldn't be
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[18:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> I know what you mean!
[18:56] <iain_G4SGX> Is there no ISM about 26/27/28 Mhz, good skip possibiities at the moment and a chance at an effective ERP cos of antenna length.
[18:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE I've saved them for future use.
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[18:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK I'll get them out of B-17 folder!
[18:57] <HA6NN> G0TDJ Steve: What kind of tx will be flying then? HF or UHF?
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> F5APQ already there
[18:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: First lesson, do a poll from the listening stations to see what the clearest frequency would be LOL :D
[18:57] <iain_G4SGX> Got Afghanistan and Mongola on 10M this afternoon, been good for a few days
[18:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> HA6NN: UHF 434.300MHz RTTY 50 7n1 as far as I remember. I can confirm later if you wish.
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> Unfortunately the whole 13.560 band is only 12 kHz wide and there is a massive QRM right in the middle from the RF readers
[18:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Leo, yes, lots here sadly
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> I have tried to stick to one side which seemed a little cleaner here
[18:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[18:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> I hope it's picked up again
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[19:01] <LeoBodnar> I would be amazed. It needs a remote receiver with no industry, science or medicine around. And no shops.
[19:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> There's always a chance....
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> Hope is not lost definitely
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[19:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> HA6NN: Have a look at my last blog entry for info: http://projecthab.co.uk/
[19:03] <DL1SGP> we should sail towards it :) then we could add a boat to snus
[19:03] <HA6NN> G0TDJ Steve: Yes, Steve, please let us know somewhere all details -although we do not have to much chance to hear your UHF balloon but at lest we will be able to show its route on the map.
[19:04] <HA6NN> Thanks for the URL Steve!
[19:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> My pleasure. I would love to know that my balloon was being tracked on the map from overseas :-)
[19:05] <DL1SGP> G0TDJ_Steve: I will try my very best to make that happen... if you fly high enough :)
[19:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> DL1SGP: Well, I have to say that it probably won't but thanks for trying anyway
[19:07] <DL1SGP> never hurts to turn the antenna towards you and listen out for any signal
[19:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool :-)
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> G0TDJ_Steve: I think you need to send one up before the event, it could be very difficult to do it for the first time and with people observing
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[19:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) I look forward to the challenge - It'll be fun
[19:09] <LeoBodnar> Haha knowing you I am sure whatever the outcome it will be fun
[19:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have asked for an experienced HABber on my group posts but no one has offered...yet
[19:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Leo, if it doesn't go to plan then hopefully, lessons will be learned. Me and the scouts.
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[19:12] <keydash> Heyç
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[19:16] <iain_G4SGX> Our club do a JOTA thing, got to be security vetted these days in case of pedos.
[19:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: I am aware of this, my ex. wife works in child education. In this case, I'm not going to be left alone, or be responsible for any scouts.
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[19:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Been scanning about for B-17 - Nothing yet
[19:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> YUp clear now and nearly a full decode next time!
[19:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Are you on SDR Geoff-G8DHE ?
[19:20] <iain_G4SGX> Think its normal these days and rightly so i should think, just more paperwork puts people off contributing. I loved JOTA as a kid but I was the only scout with a G6! lol
[19:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> I have it at 434498.9 for a 1Khz center
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[19:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup SDR-Radio
[19:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> iain_G4SGX: I never got to do scouts but I'm very keen to get young people into the hobby by any means
[19:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Geoff-G8DHE: Cheers, I'll monitor there
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can't see the blips, but the Domino is very clear - Ca IC 2QI7,39,19aa644,131007,52.1776,-0.5426,4874,6,-8,4.1,0*c044
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> $$B-17,40,191853,131007,52.1834,-0.5257,4989,6,-8,4.1,0*371
[19:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Geoff-G8DHE: Can you call Data on the next block please?
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[19:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> it will be at 23:45 approx
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> B-17 ?!
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> this is mental
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> started now
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> lot weaker that time for me
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> $$n17,42,192341,H007,52.198,.2.4857,5382,6,-1D,4.1,0*2ae6
[19:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nothing here
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[19:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> next will be at 23:30 ish
[19:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> 28:30 ish rather
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[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah the blips are clear now
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> 30 seconds
[19:28] <g6uim> Got some B-17 Decodes down here in the SW
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[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> started
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[19:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nope, just not high enough....
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[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> 33:20 ish will be next
[19:30] <Rebounder> LeoBodnar: No more signs of B-16?
[19:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll be ready Geoff-G8DHE
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[19:33] <LeoBodnar> Rebounder: it should be approaching Denmark tonight http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-16/NOAA.gif
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[19:33] <LeoBodnar> But no reports
[19:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> started
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[19:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> weak with me that time 38:05 is next
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[19:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just time to make a cuppa :-)
[19:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> 4:45 aprrox I think must calculate it in a mo
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[19:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> I need a 80m mast at the moment :-( only got 20m http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/index.php?ind=0
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[19:41] <fsphil> oh, more Bs
[19:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[19:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Leo wants to get a swarm of Bs in the iar
[19:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> only the first with a beacon the others relays!
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[19:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Green at last
[19:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool Geoff-G8DHE
[19:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nothing here as yet, not even a pip
[19:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Any sign of it yet Steve ?
[19:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> ^
[19:44] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
[19:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'm centerd on 434,498.820 now for 1KHz
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[19:46] <iain_G4SGX> My FT857 shows a little higher for some reason, 434.5 and centered on 1200Hz
[19:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> If your mast is 21m high you might just see it on the local horizon http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/tjd%20view.jpg
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[19:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> We might even try a QSO one day Geoff-G8DHE I've only got a collinear though
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[19:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> YUp its at 1.6 degrees for me now, only Co-linear in use here at present the Azimuth rotator is defunct at the moment fixed a little south of East at Race hill in Brighton of rme
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[19:50] <fsphil> KT5TK: will I need any insulation for your board?
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[19:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Gotta be somewhere else for a bit - BBL!
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[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> reckon this tip would be ok for the tiny pins inside a micro sd connector? http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_i.html
[19:59] <tweetBot> @nerdsville: Currently rx/tracking B-17 High Altitude Balloon #hab #ukhas http://t.co/wctKvYnuZE visit http://t.co/uwf3jwzN6S on how to become involved
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[20:02] <DutchMillbt> .. first greens comming in
[20:03] <x-f> Rebounder, i wasn't listening then, can't confirm there was a signal, i'll try the next pass in four minutes
[20:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> ibanezmatt13, Would agree don't think you will get much smaller, its about 0.5mm at the tip I guess, otherwise you loose to much heat down the length of the bit itself.
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[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Looking at the price Geoff-G8DHE, it's double what most of the others are. For instance, shape S: http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/work_narrow_pitches.html. Shape S is half the price; would it be ok for those hard to get pins
[20:06] <Babs> Interesting stuff on orbital mechanics, thrusters, rescue protocols etc. in reality vs. the new movie Gravity (which I hear from a friend in Asia is really rather good) http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/10/poking-holes-in-the-gravity-trailer-with-nasas-help/
[20:06] <chrisstubbs> Thats one more xbox put through the tin foil and paint stripper reflow method
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[20:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> You might be pushing it, its so much smaller in diameter hence greater heat loss for the volume.
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> so the shape I is the only option for the sd? :/
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[20:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> The J shape can be helpfull depending if you need to get over the top of other components
[20:08] <Willdude123> Hi ibanezmatt13
[20:08] <Willdude123> How are you?
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Will, not so bad
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> yourself?
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Geoff-G8DHE, yeah, see I can do everything else with the current tip I have. The micro sd is just ridiculous
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> It's just trying to get the iron tip to actually fit into the connector which I can't do
[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> For straight SMD components I or S probaly fine but its the amount f heat you need for "pins" have you an image of the micro sd unit itself ?
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> it's a 3m socket
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> one sec
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> Geoff-G8DHE: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtmX&a4x&cEVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--
[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> missing a parameter I think
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[20:11] <Laurenceb_> wow
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> very tight transition to float
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> it's smaller than my thumb nail, just for some idea of the relative size :)
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[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> In that case the pins can't have that much volume in them at all ?
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[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> no
[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> You might be OK in that case
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[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> with which tip might I be ok?
[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> the S type as thats the cheaper
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[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> right, thanks for the tip ;)
[20:13] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: looks cool on the chart. I wish I could say I know how to do it again.
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1746935.pdf
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> MOAR boards
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[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Hey! You are not tricking me again!
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> 9dof IMU on there
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[20:22] <x-f> i assume STS-8N is yet another pico
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> wow
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f401c-disco/stm32f4-discovery-eval-board/dp/2355378?CMP=GRHS-1000962
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Very smooth transistion to float tonight http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/B-17_transistion_to_float.jpg
[20:24] <DL1SGP> Laurenceb_: that looks real interesting
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> price is insanely low
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[20:25] <Laurenceb_> quadcopter crowd are going to love it
[20:26] <ReadError> oh wow
[20:26] <ReadError> they had the f3 with that
[20:26] <ReadError> but the f4, even nicer
[20:28] Action: DL1SGP should plan a vacation in UK sometime in spring to get a few gadgets shipped to B&B instead of having items sent to continent
[20:28] <jcoxon> i think thats the one i've got
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[20:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL1SP, We could always try to float them over on a Balloon ...
[20:29] <DL1SGP> right I still got a few SAMs in the garage lol
[20:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
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[20:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> bobbed down a bit
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[20:35] <jcoxon> is B-17 standard 434.500?
[20:36] <DL1SGP> yeap afaik
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[20:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Back down below my horizon again think that was the last I'll hear of B-17 :-(
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[20:42] <DL1SGP> based on current prediction I guess it does not wanna float to Germany at all Geoff-G8DHE :-)
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[20:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope another Finnish retrival job! Mind you the wind is about to change after Wednesday, coming in from the North then ...
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[20:44] <DL1SGP> if Leo keeps starting like mad he will have ran out of balloon stock until then :)
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[20:48] Action: jcoxon continues to hunt for B-16
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[20:50] <enkidu> in Soviet Russia, balloon is hunting you!
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> lol
[20:51] <db_g6gzh> B-17 is 7.8km away, presumably mostly in the up direction 8-)
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[20:52] <arko> is anyone going to track B-16?
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:53] <LeoBodnar> We are trying arko but it's quite easy - there is nothing to hear
[20:54] <mikestir> LeoBodnar: what antenna did you use on B-16?
[20:54] <arko> ah, i saw only 1 tower decoding and got worried
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[20:54] <LeoBodnar> We need an electromagnetic lens
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> shortened dipole
[20:54] <arko> too much loss?
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> too much noise on the band
[20:55] <arko> damn
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[20:55] <arko> i'd love to see a 13Mhz yagi
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[20:58] <enkidu> easy one
[20:59] <enkidu> Dipole Length [mm] : 11123
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[21:02] <enkidu> worst thing is, that it should be vertical
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[21:05] <Hes> I'll try not to comment on anything posted on large facebook groups any more. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2208853839/10152710017813840/?notif_t=group_comment_reply
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[21:07] Action: enkidu have no facebook account
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[21:07] <mfa298> Hes: that looks to proove the point ed made earlier about some HAMS
[21:07] <mfa298> apparently some HAMS always know best, even when they're clearly wrong
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[21:17] <LeoBodnar> Is STS-8N still flying?
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[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, doesn't look like it :(
[21:22] <HA7018SWL> LeoBodnar: Yes
[21:22] <thejoker> hy there
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> Why map is not updating?
[21:23] <HA7018SWL> LeoBodnar: HA2ECM sent me this, few minutes ago: $$$$STS-8N,1225,20:29:16,48.668728,17.675791,03284,009,1.42,3.0,00*C440 $$$$STS-8N,1226,20:29:16,48.668728,17.675791,03284,009,1.42,3.0,00*4980
[21:23] <HA7018SWL> LeoBodnar: aprs.fi is updates: http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FHB-STS-8N&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> 3.2km float? Is it a small balloon or just heavy?
[21:23] <Upu_M0UPU> APRS as well ?
[21:24] <eroomde> heh, someone who used to be in my lab just appeared in the grauniad
[21:24] <eroomde> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2013/oct/07/after-accident-triathlete-giving-back
[21:24] <iain_G4SGX> mfa298: Geez, you stumbled across a right bunch of idiots on that page !
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[21:26] <thejoker> does everyone know how can i sr
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[21:26] <mfa298> well someone else found it but definetly looks like a bunch of the "I'm a ham, I passed my test 30+ years ago, I know everything" type hams.
[21:26] <thejoker> how can i start writing a code to get ssdv and telemetry ?
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[21:27] <thejoker> i know there are a program the
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[21:27] <thejoker> that get the ssdv but about telemetry?
[21:27] <eroomde> mfa298: missed the link
[21:27] <eroomde> could you repost?
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> 20:29:16 is an hour ago?
[21:27] <mfa298> 22:05 < Hes> I'll try not to comment on anything posted on large facebook groups any more. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2208853839/10152710017813840/?notif_t=group_comment_reply
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> APRS is imported from habitat it seems. I am a bit lost
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> farcebook
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[21:28] <mfa298> nicely proves some of your point earlier about some hams always knowing best
[21:28] <iain_G4SGX> There's idiots like that in all walks of life im afraid, I like to ask questions about baluns to wind them all into a frenzy! lol
[21:29] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, is it to do with the lack of a flight doc?
[21:30] <mfa298> some hams in particular seem to have that mindset, luckily there dont seem to be any like that here.
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[21:30] <LeoBodnar> not sure, it should still update the tracking webpage if someone has received anything shouldn't it?
[21:30] <fsphil> yea
[21:30] <LeoBodnar> Just like any testing upload does
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[21:31] <fsphil> checking the db
[21:31] <eroomde> mfa298: nice
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[21:32] <Laurenceb_> < doesnt have a farcebook account
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[21:33] <fsphil> B-17's still transmitting?
[21:33] <fsphil> ah it just updated
[21:34] <iain_G4SGX> I do think its just a general sample of society at large, there are a lot of w******rs out there statistically, middle aged american hams even more so maybe.
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[21:37] <iain_G4SGX> I'm afraid i'm a bit of a hippy still at heart and i think this money led society stinks personally. nuf said.
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[21:41] <fsphil> B-17's transition to float is amazing
[21:42] <fsphil> it's like there is a ceiling at 7km
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> If somebody is writing a book on balloons they can borrow the image :D
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[21:45] <LeoBodnar> I'd buy one! :)
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[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> which image?
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[21:46] <LeoBodnar> B-17 altitude profile
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> Oh neat G1OGY has popped up down the road from me
[21:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure ho to read these fully but thr Cambourne balloon at lunch time http://meteocentre.com/upperair/get_sounding.php?stn=03808&type=rs&yyyy=2013&mm=10&dd=07&run=12&hist=0&show=0&lang=en&region=uk
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[21:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> does shoe a very strong dip in dewpoint temp about 5.5Kms but that was 10 hours ago and several hundred mile difference ?
[21:52] <arko> wow, that altitude profile!'
[21:52] <arko> its like a clean slope
[21:53] <arko> steady altitude
[21:53] <arko> 10/10
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:54] <LeoBodnar> saved it before it goes wobbly over the sea
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-17_20131007/flight%20profile%20@%202257.jpg at a large scale!
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> COOL
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[21:58] <arko> damn thats a clean flight path
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[21:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody warned the Danes and Finnish again ?
[22:00] <x-f> STS-8N GPS has stuck, its sentence_id is incrementing, time and coords aren't
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[22:03] <LeoBodnar> Finns are on full alert! :)
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> evening S_Mark
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, yay
[22:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right I'm off cu2mrw
[22:03] <S_Mark> hey Lunar_Lander
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[22:03] <chrisstubbs> Evening mark
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> CU later Geoff-G8DHE
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> x-f: how do you follow it? via logtail?
[22:04] <x-f> i looked there, yes
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> wow they roll at such a speed! is it 1200 packet or RTTY?
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> new update every 3 seconds
[22:08] <x-f> Radim's launch announcement just came through - "naked pico launch night"
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> lol, is it one of those druid things?
[22:09] <x-f> LeoBodnar, RTTY 300 baud
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> Voltage and temperature change though
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> maybe they can do direction finding on it
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> do they have a forum these guys?
[22:12] <x-f> i don't know
[22:13] <x-f> Poles DF-ed their ranaway SEBA5 quite precisely
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[22:14] <S_Mark> hey chrisstubbs
[22:14] <S_Mark> Good thanks
[22:14] <x-f> i'm not sure if that sentence made any sense, good night
[22:14] <S_Mark> Need to get my HAB act together lol
[22:14] <S_Mark> Hoping to launch another by November
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> My B is okay but HA needs some work
[22:15] <chrisstubbs> last 2 launches were terrible
[22:15] <S_Mark> lol
[22:15] <S_Mark> oh dear
[22:16] <fsphil> if I don't launch soon it'll be nearly a year and Lunar_Lander will laugh at me
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> well I doubt someone will beat my record
[22:16] <S_Mark> haha you better get your HAB act together too fsphil
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> five years of work, and Richard said we effectively worked two years on it
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[22:17] <LeoBodnar> so where are the other three?
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> writing papers and thinking how to do stuff
[22:17] <arko> i just wish at least 1 B-series launch would make it over here
[22:18] <arko> i'd be so happy
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> STS-8N internal temperature is around 1C
[22:18] <fsphil> it'll probably happen
[22:18] <arko> zoom out of that map.. it's lonely here
[22:18] <arko> I CHALLENGE YOU LEO
[22:18] <fsphil> uh-oh, you can't back down now
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Well better get some listening outposts organised then :)
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> And in Japan too
[22:18] <arko> i shall!
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea we need people in India
[22:19] <arko> damn, i dont know many people in japan
[22:19] <fsphil> you get me a flight and I'll do it :)
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> lol
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> Challenge accepted arko
[22:19] <fsphil> always wanted to go to Japan. Though I don't like fish. I may starve
[22:19] <arko> YES!!!
[22:19] <arko> this means it will happen
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[22:20] <arko> i have my 434mhz directional antenna built
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> lol thanks at least someone trusts me
[22:20] <arko> and my radios and preamp/filters ready
[22:20] <arko> you tell me when and i'll make it happen
[22:20] <arko> towers across cali
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> okeydokey
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[22:21] <LeoBodnar> btw I did not realise how much fun people can have from just a simple balloon
[22:22] <DL1SGP> heh
[22:22] <arko> this is a rare community
[22:22] <arko> people just love this stuff
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> Here is from an email exchange from Jari in Finland: This was sucha enjoyment for me today. Thrilling to follow the flight. I done satellite qsos quite heavily, but they havent given this kind of rush for ages. Summer time 6m openings was good, but if I remember anything special of this year, it was your balloon!
[22:22] Action: arko is guilty of it
[22:22] <fsphil> excellent
[22:22] <arko> haha
[22:22] <arko> :)
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> I am so proud :D
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[22:22] <fsphil> my fav bit is chasing
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[22:23] <DL1SGP> looks like you got a new weekend enjoyment on the way to skandinavia LeoBodnar
[22:23] <arko> you're flights are pretty reliable
[22:23] <arko> fsphil: agreed
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> It does not cost me much to chuck it into the sky and some people 1000 miles away go nuts :)
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[22:23] <arko> haha
[22:23] <arko> if only we had this awesome of a community in the us
[22:23] <fsphil> it will happen
[22:24] <arko> stilldavid: I think im going to launch my pico hab in 2 weeks
[22:24] <eroomde> how do you think john lennon felt
[22:24] <arko> 434mhz
[22:24] <arko> get ready
[22:24] <arko> :D
[22:24] <fsphil> ushas :)
[22:24] <eroomde> some old bollocks to music one afternoon while high
[22:24] <arko> oh god, not the beatles
[22:24] <DL1SGP> US will be assimilated next, we are going shortpath so first had to get finland
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[22:24] <PE2G> First green from B-17 at 388 km, -0.7 deg: http://i.imgur.com/kkIjvR1.jpg
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[22:25] <LeoBodnar> I have launched B-17 mostly for the Finns, they have put so much effort in trying to locate B-15 and some felt they missed the fun tracking it
[22:25] <DL1SGP> great PE2G
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[22:26] <LeoBodnar> Your performance is so consistent PE2G :D
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[22:27] <chrisstubbs> right i'm off, all the best to B-17 leo
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> laters
[22:27] <arko> nn
[22:27] <S_Mark> see ya
[22:27] <fsphil> g'nite
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[22:27] <LeoBodnar> cheers chrisstubbs good night!
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[22:28] <PE2G> Thanks LeoBodnar, because my antenna height is so consistent :) Second green, BTW
[22:31] <Babs> arko, you still on?
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[22:40] <arko> Babs: wasss up
[22:40] <Babs> wassss apppp
[22:40] <Babs> so. anyway.
[22:40] <Babs> can you get iplayer in the US? as in BBC iplayer
[22:41] <arko> ah yes
[22:41] <arko> i think so
[22:41] <Babs> coolio. they have a good mars doc on there at the moment. history of mars exploration.
[22:41] <arko> if not i can always proxy
[22:41] <arko> ooo
[22:41] <Babs> some nice jpl footage from bitd
[22:41] <Babs> watching it now
[22:41] <arko> haha
[22:42] <arko> nice, link?
[22:42] <Babs> there is a nice dig at your imperial/metric c*ck up, then a cut to Prof Pillinger with all his british weirdness not knowing where Beagle II ended up
[22:42] <PE2G> Wasn't seeing or hearing B-17's bips yet, but do now.
[22:42] <Babs> nice US and British stereotypes then. outside of that, is cool. hang on a sec
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[22:43] <fsphil> great, nearly midnight and you find me something to watch
[22:43] <Babs> here you go fsphil http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p1crx/Mars_A_Horizon_Guide/
[22:44] <eroomde> today i had a look at some code written by a client in lab view's ladder logic thing, it was doing a lot of stuff but he wasn't experienced with software. i waiting for the NI editor to load the code
[22:44] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/nOnrq7L.gif.jpg
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[22:44] <Babs> i also enjoyed this tonight fsphil (the wife is away) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03c59k7/For_Britain_and_the_Hell_of_It/
[22:44] <Babs> sample quote from Richard Noble "I did this for Britain and the hell of it"
[22:45] <Babs> we need more people like him
[22:45] <fsphil> haha, yea
[22:45] <Babs> quality guy
[22:45] <eroomde> hmmmmm
[22:45] <eroomde> i know a few people to get caught in the richard noble trail of destruction
[22:46] <eroomde> he'll happily leave you high and dry having promised otherwise
[22:46] <eroomde> anything to get done what he wants
[22:46] <Babs> i can imagine that there is a lot of stuff fairly frustrating about him
[22:46] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:47] <Babs> but, when he goes to meet his maker he can say that he gave it a go
[22:47] <DL1SGP> ok. gonna go to sleep so have a nice rest of the night everyone, and safe floating dear B-16 and B-17. hf gear remains on during night just for the case of any propagation oddities :)
[22:47] <eroomde> and bloodhound is not without project management issues
[22:47] <eroomde> yeah, he's had a go
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> bloodhound bores me
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> dont see the point
[22:47] <Babs> plus he did Thrust 2 when age 37
[22:47] <Babs> if nothing else that is impressive, be it through lies, chicanery or whatever
[22:47] <PE2G> Gutenacht DL1SGP
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> why doesnt he stick inductrac passive maglev on an old intercity 125 to troll hyperloop
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> that'd be something to watch
[22:48] <DL1SGP> Slaap well PE2G
[22:48] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/LqaxBRG.jpg
[22:49] <PE2G> DL1SGP: Danke, aber ich gehe noch nicht zu Bett :)
[22:49] <eroomde> but it's quite possibly to do impressive things quickly if you don't mind sacrificing people
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: erm wut
[22:49] <eroomde> e.g. 5 year plans or the japanese rail system
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[22:50] <Babs> are you talking the Burmese rail system, or the Japanese rail system
[22:50] <Babs> ?
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[22:50] <arko> Babs: sorry, had to pop into a meeting just now
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[22:50] <KD8ATF> Ge all first time on the irc....... My name is ryan call is KD8ATF i live in Fort Ashby, West Virginia wanted to stop by and say hi..... I am very slowly trying to gather stuff to do my first balloon
[22:50] <arko> hahahaha
[22:50] <arko> "heat is die"
[22:50] <eroomde> sorry yes, thailand/burma
[22:51] <eroomde> the one built by the japanese
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> Hello Ryan
[22:51] <Babs> I was thinking, "what the hell is he on about, I've been on the bullet train and it was excellent"
[22:51] <eroomde> :)
[22:51] <KD8ATF> How is the habduino coming along looks like i would really like one
[22:51] <arko> "Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only, but all BBC iPlayer Radio programmes are available to you. "
[22:51] <KD8ATF> Hello leo
[22:51] <arko> time to proxy
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> arko: lurn 2 proxy
[22:51] <Babs> then Bridge over the River kwai came into my mind and i guffawed
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> hah
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> preempted
[22:51] <arko> beat ya to it
[22:51] <arko> :)
[22:52] <Babs> arko - there is a short clip of loads of people in California with their own home made rovers driving around in some competition. Tell me you are one of those people.
[22:52] <fsphil> 8.3 bit/s for mariner 4
[22:53] <arko> oh?
[22:53] <arko> whats the compeition called?
[22:53] <Babs> fsphil : "it was transmitted back at a speed slower than a fast morse coder". arf.
[22:54] <Babs> arko - dunno, I'm watching Richard Noble but sobered by the thought of the people he has done over in his supersonic wake
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> KD8ATF: you can ask question if you want but most of the UK is now gone to bed as it is almost midnight here
[22:54] <Babs> I still think if I screwed every person i knew i would struggle to get up to 641mph for a flying mile
[22:55] <arko> hehe
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> There are some US folks here and Australians - at what seem like random parts of the day.
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[22:56] <arko> well its 4pm here
[22:56] <KD8ATF> I will have to ask again in the am here
[22:57] <KD8ATF> I have 7pm here lol
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[22:57] <arko> east coast?
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> I have only one burning question - how Iain managed to hear B-16 altogether!
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> i suspect balanced antenni
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[22:59] <Babs> arko - re watched the clip. its on a californian beach, but it is 2001. You might have been at the Buzz Lightyear stage than the Curiosity stage way back then.
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[23:01] <KD8ATF> Yea east coast
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[23:02] <arko> yeah, i was like 12
[23:02] <arko> or something
[23:02] <arko> but i probably would have done it if i knew
[23:03] <arko> KD8ATF: nice! another american
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[23:05] <Babs> quality. right, its turned midnight so i am turning in. see whether you can get the clip working arko, there is a lovely piece of art they had from when it was easier to print out the teletype coming in from Mariner and rather than wait for the picture to be processed (which took ages)
[23:05] <Babs> instead they coloured over the numbers depending on the numerical value, and made up the picture manually
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[23:06] <KD8ATF> Im still trying to learn how to use irc so forgive me.... It looks like people are sending me messages that are showing up in different colors im not sure how to respond to just them
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[23:07] <KD8ATF> But yes I am from America lol
[23:07] <arko> Babs: awesome!
[23:07] <arko> i'll try, at the moment work is crazy :P
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[23:07] <arko> no idea why im on irc
[23:07] <arko> KD8ATF: nice!
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[23:10] <KD8ATF> I hear that i got off work at 430pm my time today. It was really busy there also i work in a local hospital has a central service tech
[23:12] <K9JKM> Its always busy at the hospital ... my day job is cardiac RN at a local hospital
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[23:16] <KD8ATF> My dad(N3AAS) is an rn im not sure for how long tho so far
[23:16] <K9JKM> Cool!
[23:17] <KD8ATF> I have been working in central for about 3 year now ever since i graduated high school
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[23:23] <KD8ATF> My reall passion in the health care field is EMS. I am a volunteer EMT/Fire Fighter in the state of West Virginia
[23:23] <LeoBodnar> Gentlemen I am signing off, it's well past midnight here in the UK
[23:23] <LeoBodnar> Good night all!
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[23:23] <KD8ATF> Night leo
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[23:24] <K9JKM> Cool ... I was a paramedic a while back ... like 1980 thru 1990 ... excellent field to be in
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[23:27] <K9JKM> When you get old being inside at bedside seems like a good idea tho'
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[23:37] <KD8ATF> Yea dad has been trying to get me to go to school for it
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