highaltitude.log.20130930

[00:05] <SpeedEvil> They are in 12h orbits
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> So about 6h
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[00:13] <Laurenceb__> be interesting to see if temperature rises over land
[00:16] <LeoBodnar> I can hear frequency drifting up a little bit
[00:16] <LeoBodnar> which is very strange
[00:17] <LeoBodnar> usually crystals increase in freq when they freeze
[00:17] <LeoBodnar> crystal dimensions reduce -> resonance freq increases
[00:17] <LeoBodnar> this TCXO works backwards
[00:18] <LeoBodnar> it lower the freq when cooled down. I think it has a faulty compensation or overcompensation
[00:18] <LeoBodnar> anyway, I can hear freq drifting up as if it was warming up
[00:18] <Laurenceb__> yeah but check the voltage
[00:19] <Laurenceb__> gps just major glitched
[00:19] <LeoBodnar> It's very subtle drift
[00:19] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[00:19] <LeoBodnar> It downloaded the crap again. Compare to the previous day. Same time almsot to the minute
[00:20] <Laurenceb__> heh
[00:21] <LeoBodnar> Do you mean glitched as in position?
[00:22] <Laurenceb__> no i meant current
[00:22] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[00:23] <Laurenceb__> if it goes into sleep mode, whats the wakeup voltage?
[00:23] <LeoBodnar> 3.55v
[00:24] <LeoBodnar> Not sure what happens if voltage relaxes again and GPS wakes up, kills voltage, etc. Could be looping
[00:24] <LeoBodnar> Next major GPS glitch is In 4 hours
[00:25] <LeoBodnar> These balloons are not as easy as they seem to be are they?
[00:26] <Laurenceb__> heh
[00:26] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18553_trj001.gif
[00:29] <Laurenceb__> haha
[00:29] <Laurenceb__> need listeners in Alaska
[00:30] <LeoBodnar> or on the North Pole
[00:31] <Laurenceb__> or Argos....
[00:31] <Laurenceb__> no replies from anyone :-/
[00:31] Action: Laurenceb__ zzz
[00:32] <LeoBodnar> good night!
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[01:06] <PB0NER> I and PA3WEG will cover the night if everything goes to plan...
[01:06] <PB0NER> I leave my rig on... 03:06 here.. bed time
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[01:10] <LeoBodnar> Thanks PB0NER
[01:10] <LeoBodnar> good night
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[02:37] <bluedogslim> Cool channel
[02:37] <bluedogslim> Does this have anything to do with drones?
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[02:39] <Darkside> not really
[02:39] <Darkside> it's mostly about high altitude ballooning
[02:41] <bluedogslim> What language do you typically program in?
[02:41] <Darkside> for embedded, C/C++
[02:41] <Darkside> for PC, python
[02:41] <bluedogslim> What kinds of things are you testing for these days ?
[02:42] <Darkside> eh?
[02:42] <Darkside> how do you man
[02:42] <Darkside> mean*
[02:44] <bluedogslim> Well
[02:44] <bluedogslim> Is it mostly weather balloons you are sending up?
[02:44] <bluedogslim> I mean.. if the balloons go high. What are you testing fore?
[02:44] <Darkside> generaly we aren't :P
[02:45] <Darkside> its more for cool pictures, and experimenting with tracking hardware
[02:45] <bluedogslim> Ah.
[02:45] <Darkside> i have flown things like temp sensors, pressure sensors, whatever
[02:45] <Darkside> but its not like thats particularly new data
[02:45] <bluedogslim> so you are sending camera's up?
[02:45] <Darkside> yeah
[02:45] <Darkside> been done many times
[02:46] <bluedogslim> Do you get the balloons back?
[02:46] <bluedogslim> Or do they drift off into the never?
[02:46] <Darkside> well, thart depends
[02:46] <Darkside> in general, yes
[02:46] <Darkside> but it relies on a good trackig system, and good predictions
[02:46] <Darkside> tracking system*
[02:46] <Darkside> and here we have both
[02:47] <Darkside> much of the work involvd in launching a high altitude balloon is involved with developing the radio tracker
[02:47] <Darkside> as without that, you don't get the payload back
[02:48] <bluedogslim> intersting
[02:48] <bluedogslim> how are you making the balloons?
[02:48] <bluedogslim> Kits?
[02:48] <Darkside> err
[02:48] <Darkside> the balloons themselves are bought
[02:48] <Darkside> there are a few companies that make them
[02:49] <bluedogslim> What do you fill them with?
[02:49] <bluedogslim> HeliuM?
[02:50] <Darkside> yeah
[02:50] <Darkside> some groups use hydrogen
[02:50] <bluedogslim> Actually I just bought a drone for film arial video's
[02:51] <bluedogslim> So sending up a balloon sounds cool too
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[03:03] <bluedogslim> Do you guys launch the balloons in teams?
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[03:39] <heathkid> hydrogen?
[03:39] <heathkid> hello everyone
[03:39] <heathkid> again
[03:39] <ljj> hello everybody
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[04:07] <ljj> good morning!!!
[04:07] <ljj> is there a problem with the database or b-14 is lost???
[04:10] <Mik_WD8MNV> it's not sunrise yet on B-14... maybe another 60 - 90 minutes yet
[04:10] <Mik_WD8MNV> right now it's sleeping
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[04:15] <ljj> thanks Mik!
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[05:00] <det> gm PA1SDB. I am trying to find the signal of B-14. What is your current RX frequency? vy 73 Detlef, DJ3AK
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[05:04] <PA1SDB> gm det, dail 434.499.800 / tone then at 1000 Hz
[05:05] <PA1SDB> det usb
[05:06] <PA1SDB> det but slowly drifting up and down 200 Hz up and down in few minutes
[05:08] <det> PA1SDB, thank you. I guess I should find it then. With my 13 el. hor. yagi it iss still at the range limit.
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[05:11] <PA1SDB> det I'm using a vertical at +10 m from the ground, but i'm half way the range. Clear signal here in N/E ot. Netherlands.
[05:13] <PA1SDB> det I wonder what happens at sunrise with frequency. Since yesterday evening not much change in center freq, besides 200 Hz drift.
[05:16] <PA1SDB> det I think balloon is at and of (red) line in tracker and not where balloon icon appears...
[05:22] <det> PA1SDB thanks. yesterday at -36 C there was much more drift in frequency reported. Vertical polarization is best for the B-.. series of balloon payloads I guess.
[05:23] <PA1SDB> Now drifting up quick at sunrise
[05:24] <Mik_WD8MNV> you see signal from B-14?
[05:24] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.500,000 - beacon puls at 1300 Hz 05h24m
[05:27] <LA3EQ_> how long are these pulses?
[05:27] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.500,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls at 1600 Hz 05h27m
[05:28] <PA1SDB> Every 3 secons one bleeb
[05:29] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.500,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls at 1800 Hz 05h29m
[05:29] <LA3EQ_> i am getting 1 second pulses..(more like chirp sound...most be something ealse
[05:31] <PA1SDB> blip - 3 sec silence - blip - 3 sec silence etc, then every 3 minutes a Domino broadcast , then blip - 3sex - ect,,,,
[05:31] <LA3EQ_> tnx for info
[05:31] <PA1SDB> Oops x = c
[05:32] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.500,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls at 2000 Hz 05h32m
[05:34] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.501,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls at 1300 Hz 05h35m
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[05:38] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.501,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls at 1500 Hz 05h38m
[05:47] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.501,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls at 1700 Hz 05h47m
[05:49] <Maxell> moring PA1SDB \
[05:49] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.502,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls audio at 800 Hz 05h49m (dial change)
[05:49] <PA1SDB> Maxell gm !
[05:49] <Maxell> B-14 is on 434.50 Mhz dial 1230 Hz here
[05:51] <PA1SDB> Maxell Thats is a large difference between my measurements... :-(
[05:51] <PA1SDB> B-14 Dail 434.502,000 MHz - USB - Beacon puls audio at 850 Hz 05h52m
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[05:51] <Maxell> Yes
[05:52] <Maxell> Your rig may be off or my dongle isn't calibrated well enough :P
[05:52] <Maxell> I might suspect the last one
[05:53] <det> PA1SDB in the meantime I was up on the roof. Installed a new antenna. Now with vertical (9 dBD) it decodes fine :-)
[05:53] <Maxell> And why is the balloon stuck in one place? :P
[05:53] <PA1SDB> It did drift quick up during sunrise. Now it stabilizes ! Stil drift, and also that 100 Hz swing up and down now and then.
[05:54] <PA1SDB> det What is your dial and tone frequency ?
[05:54] <PE2G> Good morning, I have it on 434.500.6 , 1250 Hz now
[05:54] <PH3V> Goedemorgen :-) /// Saw that hopping
[05:55] <PH3V> 434.000 / 1250 > FT-817
[05:55] <det> dial is 434500.0 and tone freq. is 1100 Hz
[05:55] <PA1SDB> Maxell I have a dongle to :-) SDRrtl softw at one PC and decode at other PC.
[05:55] <Maxell> 434.500 Mhz, fldigi @ 1350 Hz
[05:55] <Maxell> PA1SDB: did you calibrate it?
[05:57] <Maxell> http://rtlsdr.org/files/kalibrate-win-release.zip
[05:57] <det> will be back in a minute. need a hot coffee now. it was cold up there.. on the roof..
[05:58] <Maxell> And run `kal.exe -h`
[05:59] <PH3V> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ is not updating during the night. No actual reading. Reason?
[06:00] <PA1SDB> maxell Busy kallibrating :-)
[06:00] <PE2G> PH3V: It is updating, but a log file with previous positions has been tx'ed at 00 UTC
[06:00] <x-f> PH3V, habitat received that "23:57:59" packet after midnight and decided, that it was for today not yesterday, that's why spacenear.us stuck
[06:01] <x-f> good morning, busy trackers
[06:01] <PE2G> x-f: Oh, I see
[06:02] <PH3V> Both trackers thanks for the information! Clear
[06:02] <PH3V> gm x-f
[06:04] <PH3V> Still a very strong signal here on my indoor :-) 11 el vertikal yagi > 4.7 degrees elevation
[06:05] <x-f> that's a mighty thing to keep indoors :)
[06:05] <PH3V> :-)
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[06:09] <enkidu> do you live in a hangar?
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[06:10] <det> PA1SDB must leave now. cul Detlef - DJ3AK
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[06:19] <PA1SDB> o.k. det cu
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[06:21] <PA1SDB> Someone with ~ calibrated dial + puls tone freq ? Dial 434.500,000 MHz puls tone at ???? (here now 1300Hz at 434.500,000 MHz)
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[06:37] <DL7AD> morning
[06:38] <Mik_WD8MNV> is the map right? B-14 is heading back to UK or ??
[06:38] <ljj> nop!!!
[06:39] <ljj> it is on the other side of the line
[06:41] <Mik_WD8MNV> looks like it is going back way it came... or is that artifact?
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[06:42] <PE2G> Mik_WD8MNV: The most southeasterly position is the current one
[06:42] <ljj> yeap!!!
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[06:47] <PA1SDB> No good signal anymore here in n.e. of The Netherlands. Audible, but bad decode...
[06:47] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
[06:48] <PE2G> PA1SDB: QRM?
[06:48] <eroomde> arko: yo
[06:49] <PA1SDB> PE2G misschien ? Only vertical at side of the house, not much gain...
[06:50] <PE2G> PA1SDB: OK, QRM here since 8:00 local time, but still decodable.
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[06:51] <PA1SDB> PE2G If B-14 is near South Limburg, than that blue range cirkel is not far from my area anymore ...
[06:52] <Chetic> what's the thing called that's usually connected between the helium tank and the balloon?
[06:52] <Chetic> to limit pressure I suppose
[06:53] <PE2G> PA1SDB: yes, and I think there are no conditions
[06:53] <PA1SDB> PE2G Your in between us :-) (halverwege)
[06:54] <PA1SDB> PE2G It was clear audible and decodable around 5h utc this morning, but after sunrise signal level did drop here.
[06:55] <Mik_WD8MNV> regulator?
[06:56] <PE2G> PA1SDB: Did you experience the bad freq drift after sunrise?
[06:56] <eroomde> Chetic: regulator
[06:56] <PE2G> PA1SDB: Was about 100 Hz/min
[06:58] Nick change: junderwood_M0JCU -> junderwood
[06:58] <PA1SDB> PE2G Yes, even at -36 C some sunshine makes that thing above there running more comfortable and x-tals will shake quiker :-)
[06:59] <PE2G> PA1SDB: Indeed
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[06:59] <PA1SDB> PE2G Unfortunately my dongle was not callibrated. So I did publisch wrong data here. I hear it now at 1400 Hz with the dial at 434.500,000 USB !
[07:00] <Chetic> thanks eroomde
[07:00] <eroomde> np
[07:00] <PA1SDB> Just positive decode twice :-)
[07:00] <PE2G> PA1SDB: OK. 434.500.9 with 1090 Hz here
[07:01] <PE2G> Watch my QRM: http://s16.postimg.org/6g7d6mu6t/Screen1114.jpg
[07:01] <PE2G> But greens still
[07:02] <PA1SDB> PE2G Oei, thatts not best.
[07:03] <PA1SDB> Well, at least you have still some good checksum data...
[07:03] <x-f> that's impressive
[07:04] <PE2G> PA1SDB: Surprisingly...
[07:04] <PA1SDB> PE2G x-f yea right...
[07:06] <PA1SDB> Strange that the track line continues and leaves the Dutch border to Germany, but the balloon icon isn't... Aren't they connected ?
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[07:07] <Maxell> Seems to be drifted again, RevSpace's last packet was ~17 mintes ago
[07:07] <fsphil> PA1SDB: it's in germany on my map. you might need to refresh
[07:07] <Maxell> I had to reajust dl-fldigi once again :P
[07:07] <Maxell> But kinda hard on the bike
[07:08] <PA1SDB> Not WWGIWYS (what we get is what you see)...
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[07:10] <PA1SDB> fsphil Tnx. That was the problem, but it was whole morning above the North Sea...
[07:10] <Maxell> PA1SDB: my dongle says 434.500 Mhz and dl-fldigi at 1500 Hz. Not bad for $9 dongle eh?
[07:10] <fsphil> PA1SDB: yes there's a little glitch that happens at midnight
[07:10] <fsphil> when a string is transmitted just before midnight arrives at the server just after midnight
[07:10] <fsphil> the line gets the wrong date
[07:11] <PA1SDB> I bought my dongle there where your's was bought. Same seller at e-bay :-)
[07:12] <PA1SDB> Maxell ¬10 incl. shipping from China.
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[07:13] <PA1SDB> fsphil O.K. thanks for explanation !
[07:13] <Maxell> PA1SDB: actually the dongle I got was from Upu's store. The discone R820T dongle would be ebay cheapest + lowest shipping first :P
[07:13] <PE2G> Maxell: Do you have automatic tracking of freq drift in your SDR software?
[07:13] <Maxell> Well costyn_ bought it.
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[07:14] <Maxell> PE2G: no, fldigi (so dl-fldigi) doesn't support AFC for Domex16
[07:14] <DL1SGP> good morning folks
[07:14] <Maxell> oh hai
[07:14] <PE2G> Maxell: And the SDR rx software?
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[07:20] <Maxell> No, how would SDR# reconize the blips and retune?
[07:20] <Maxell> afaik AFC for DomEX16 could be done, there are no technical limtis
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[07:25] <PE2G> Maxell: I don't have any experience with SDRs yet. The old FT-790R won't do any freq tracking of course.
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[07:27] <pb1dft> http://www.funcubedongle.com/
[07:27] <Maxell> PE2G: get a $9 rtl-sdr :-)
[07:27] <eroomde> it can do frequency tracking
[07:28] <PE2G> Maxell: Will do that certainly
[07:28] <eroomde> in as much as there is a digital freq control input which you could hook into dlfldigi
[07:28] <Maxell> eroomde: well, you can write software that does it.
[07:28] <PE2G> eroomde: Thanks for the info.
[07:28] <Maxell> Thats the great thing with SDR
[07:28] <Maxell> _software_ defined radio!
[07:28] <Mik_WD8MNV> ya... try the $9 dongle 1st : )
[07:28] <Maxell> If you don't like it, you change it.
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[07:29] <LeoBodnar> mornings!
[07:29] <Mik_WD8MNV> or you can us it for FM
[07:29] <Maxell> PE2G: I got hooked in radio/amateur radio by the rtlsdr. yeah I played with Uniden scanners, but the real game-changer was rtl-sdr.
[07:30] <LeoBodnar> Chetic: the thing you asked about earlier is called "gas regulator"
[07:30] <LeoBodnar> Uniden is like looking at the world through the keyhole
[07:30] <LeoBodnar> and SDR is like standing on an edge of the cliff
[07:30] <LeoBodnar> :D
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> I had Radioshack scanner too
[07:31] <Maxell> True, but modding your scanner with discrimnator output for digital stuff such as pagers helps a lot
[07:31] <Mik_WD8MNV> I still want to see someone build a dongle on a stripped to the RTL2832 chip HF receiver in direct mode. should be no more that $20
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> It's been through a lot!
[07:32] <Maxell> Mik_WD8MNV: it's not hard, solder a bond wire to pin on rtl-sdr
[07:32] <Maxell> uh, s/rtl-sdr/dongle/
[07:32] <Maxell> You do have to have a microscope and good soldering station :P
[07:32] <Mik_WD8MNV> i want to see it as a product purpose built... not a modded one
[07:33] <Maxell> Aint gonna work for $20. The nice thing about these dongles is mass China production
[07:33] <Maxell> Thats how they kept the price low... By fabricating millions
[07:33] <Mik_WD8MNV> wonder what minimum order on that chip is... i heard that maybe an NDA has to be signed as well
[07:34] <Mik_WD8MNV> you could get it made in china... get someone to work a new board for it
[07:35] <x-f> morning, LeoBodnar, thanks for the feedback :)
[07:35] <Mik_WD8MNV> using the already existing chip should not cost that much
[07:36] <Maxell> Mik_WD8MNV: correct, R820T is as closed as it can be.
[07:36] <Maxell> Datasheet leaked on the webz, :P
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> Maxell: you can snoop on I2C enough to figure out basics
[07:37] <LeoBodnar> I think I2C protocol still has not been leaked
[07:37] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[07:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Morning Guys :-)
[07:37] <Mik_WD8MNV> but you don't need the R820... it gets toss fromt the design. the RTl will direct sample HF as is. put a filter in front, and maybe a preamp
[07:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Another good flight Leo :-)
[07:39] <Maxell> ah right Mik_WD8MNV
[07:39] <Maxell> well, even then I think for selling it for $20 your better off modding them manualy
[07:39] <PE2G> There is a log coming up
[07:40] <Mik_WD8MNV> for prototyping you could have a few boards made, then just lift the RTL chip from a dongke with a rework station
[07:40] <Maxell> PE2G: lol, it acctually said "Log"
[07:40] <PE2G> Log
[07:40] <PE2G> $$B-14,1,063813,130928,52.077,-1.0238,166,4,47,4.16,0.49*ba42
[07:40] <PE2G> $$B-14,48,080053,130928,52.1764,-1.205,5471,6,0,4.18,0.55*69a0
[07:40] <PE2G> $$B-14,229,100023,130928,52.2865,-1.033,8930,5,-1,4.28,0.69*b6c7
[07:40] <Maxell> moar
[07:40] <Mik_WD8MNV> yay... maybe map will update
[07:41] <fsphil> is it sending the log now?
[07:41] <PE2G> Yes
[07:41] <fsphil> behold the non-messed up map, muhahaha
[07:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well done fsphil :-)
[07:41] <fsphil> thank LeoBodnar for including the date in a field :)
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[07:41] <LeoBodnar> Thanks G0TDJ_Steve !
[07:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is that all it took, Additional date in the telemetry and some fsphil jiggery pokery?
[07:42] <fsphil> yep
[07:43] <fsphil> the server only had the time before, for each string
[07:43] <fsphil> it assumed it was the time today
[07:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah! That makes sense
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: it still breaks when crossing midnight for some reason
[07:43] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: it shouldn't now
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> cool!
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> so we have solved all the problems then?! :D
[07:44] <fsphil> nearly
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> [you did]
[07:44] <fsphil> this is still a bit hacky
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> well it works, don't touch it :D
[07:44] <fsphil> I think next time we need to send it in the timestamp rather than a data field
[07:44] <Maxell> do touch it
[07:44] <fsphil> $$BLAH,yyyymmddhhmmss,35,
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> lol
[07:44] <PE2G> Battery at 4.0 V, solar panel: 0.61 V, so B14 will send data at 1.5 min intervals from now?
[07:44] <Maxell> fsphil's code likes to be `touch`'ed
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> go on touch it then :D
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[07:45] <LeoBodnar> if habitat is OK with that I will do it that way then
[07:45] <Maxell> touch code.c; git add code.c; git commit; git push
[07:45] <Maxell> :P
[07:45] <fsphil> yea habitat I'm not sure about
[07:45] <Maxell> But whats going on around midnight?
[07:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> I take it the date string wasn't in any of those sentences PE2G just posted?
[07:45] <fsphil> but if it doesn't, it shouldn't be difficult to fix
[07:46] <fsphil> Maxell: a string received just before midnight was arriving at the server just after midnight
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[07:46] <fsphil> it was given the wrong date
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> Y2K problem, you need to hire a consultant for £800/hour
[07:47] <fsphil> my paypal address is.... :)
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[07:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Could someone post a recent sentence please?
[07:48] <PE2G> $$B-14,2284,074732,130930,50.7355,6.4633,9229,6,-3,4,0.62*4596
[07:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks
[07:48] <Maxell> fsphil: muahaha :P
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[07:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Got it... Dunno why I couldn't see it in the previous ones PE2G Not awake yet :-)
[07:49] <Maxell> fsphil: only way to prevent that is to not send any updates if midnight is within 5 minutes
[07:49] <PE2G> B-14 is sending data at 1 min intervals now
[07:50] <fsphil> Maxell: the B-14 hack will work as it's sending the date this time
[07:50] <LeoBodnar> lol fsphil
[07:50] <fsphil> it didn't work last night as it wasn't automaticlly fixed
[07:50] <LeoBodnar> automatically fixed?
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> auto-debugged
[07:51] <fsphil> yea. myself and Upu where fixing the database manually
[07:51] <fsphil> there's a hack in spacenear now to fix it on upload
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> time to retire now
[07:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> fsphil: If the telemetry doesn't include the date field, or just ,, will all be well?
[07:52] <fsphil> G0TDJ_Steve: yea, it's a B-14 specific hack atm
[07:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Special treatment... Cool, well done
[07:53] <tjanos> good morning...
[07:53] <tjanos> Mik_WD8MNV: it is a small hungarian "lab" dealing "redesigned" rtl-sdr and other converters: http://janielectronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=18
[07:54] <tjanos> (see the last one), but it seems me, he think, this is a "golden mining" field for him.
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[07:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi daveake
[07:55] <daveake> g morn
[07:56] <Mik_WD8MNV> well... all the upconverter does is send the low stuff into the tuner, then the RTL samples it again... can take all that out for HF and just use the RTL chip raw
[07:57] <PA1SDB> B-14 now transmitting more frequently telemetry data and also stronger now (in relation to half hour ago)
[07:58] <Mik_WD8MNV> there's a hack that modds the chip by putting a balun at the input of the chip. why not clean it all up and put it all on a nice pretty new board. if i want the stuff above HF i'd just get a 2nd dongle... they're cheap
[07:58] <Mik_WD8MNV> and in the new design you can adda a filter and maybe a preamp
[07:59] <tjanos> If I know well, the"main actor" is the "silicon-tuner" chip, the realtek use as an a/d only
[08:00] <Mik_WD8MNV> I *had* an upconverter, but if *failed* after 3 days, and when i sent the RMA back it went missing, so i still have no working upconverter
[08:01] <PA1SDB> Ooh, now signal less again.
[08:01] <tjanos> It has some of this components: http://www.flickr.com/photos/csete/6892184884/
[08:02] <PE2G> A log being transmitted again
[08:02] <Mik_WD8MNV> the I and Q goto the RTL chip... and you can bypass the tuner and go straight to the chip for HF
[08:03] <DL1SGP> PE2G: which frequency are you on at present?
[08:03] <PE2G> 434.500.9 MHz , 1150 Hz
[08:03] <DL1SGP> thank you
[08:03] <tjanos> Ok, maybe this is the "direct mode"
[08:04] <PE2G> DL1SGP: Log bein tx'ed now
[08:04] <Mik_WD8MNV> yes... direct mode
[08:04] <PE2G> *being
[08:05] <tjanos> if you dont mind your rtl chip, you can attach the antenna in direct way to it
[08:07] <Mik_WD8MNV> yes... and all i'm saying is to take that idea and iterate it... clean it up, add a filter and maybe a preamp, and stick a SMA connector on it. a simple IQ HF receiver.... don't want to pay $$$ unless i find something better, like HackRF. at $20 everyone would buy one or 2.
[08:08] <Mik_WD8MNV> seen them for like $999 for like the percious. lowest i've seen is like 250ish
[08:10] <Mik_WD8MNV> might buy yet another dongle just to mod it
[08:10] <Maxell> PE2G: so much LOG
[08:10] <Maxell> whats up with that?
[08:10] <Maxell> I like it, suffcient timeslots for log
[08:11] <Maxell> I would do even moar log
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> first as a delayed from the night and second is regular one on the even UTC hour
[08:11] <Maxell> embed evey normal group of 2 with one extra
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[08:12] <LeoBodnar> Maybe just keep sending log continuously with occasional interruptions for current update? :D
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[08:12] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: 300% log overhead
[08:12] <Maxell> sounds like a plan
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[08:18] <Maxell> 1.4 degrees elevation, broken packets: $$B-1n\UffffffffaAa00d&l0930P5oau6326,6oneaa167,= ttRn eO\UffffffffOe\Uffffffff
[08:19] <Maxell> It's in RevSpace's blind spot: east, so behind an elevated highway
[08:20] wb8elk (ae7dc521@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.125.197.33) joined #highaltitude.
[08:22] <Maxell> And we are back in action :P
[08:22] <Maxell> I guess
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[08:25] <PA1SDB> Maxell Ups and Downs here....
[08:25] <PE2G> My QRM is (temporarily?) gone. Which is nice.
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[08:27] <PA1SDB> PE2G Up's en Down 's here. Sometimes almost overloading my soundcard, then few minutes later just above noise !
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[08:29] <PE2G> PA1SDB: Hang in there, you're within the blue circle still
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[08:29] Herman-PB0AHX (53560375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.86.3.117) joined #highaltitude.
[08:29] <PA1SDB> I'm a the border of that Blue range circle. No gain here, just vertical antenna, so unfortunately I think my cat and mouse game stop's soon :-(
[08:29] <Herman-PB0AHX> wow b-14 stil flying
[08:33] <PA1SDB> Hope the wind direction will turn, but I guess it's it will act the same like the wind, who meet, when I go to work at the bike, Wind direction changes always the wrong way :-(
[08:38] <Maxell> :P
[08:38] <Maxell> PA1SDB: yes thats how mother nature rolls
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[08:40] <Maxell> PA1SDB: no gain vertical antenna? hmm, as long as it has clear line of sight it should work just fine within the blue circle.
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[08:41] <Maxell> Still 1.1 degrees above horizon
[08:41] <Maxell> Herman-PB0AHX: yes, LeoBodnar is the floater overlord!
[08:41] <Maxell> or even "floating overlord"
[08:44] <Mik_WD8MNV> maybe he is secret Starcraft 2 Zerg player http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/overlord
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[08:45] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[08:45] Possible future nick collision: daveake
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[08:51] <pb1dft> Herman-PB0AHX: it somehow picked up some speed as this morning 4am it was just past us.
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[08:57] <PA1SDB> Unfortunately only the sound of the sea here at 434.500 MHz for half hour or so... #noise
[08:59] Nick change: pb1dft -> PB1DFT
[08:59] <PA1SDB> That looks better DFT :-P
[09:00] <PB1DFT> i was with PB0NER yesterday he was tracking it since 14:30 or so.
[09:00] Action: PB1DFT has a bad habbit with cases PA1SDB ;)
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[09:01] <PA1SDB> :-D
[09:01] <nats`> hi all :)
[09:01] <PB1DFT> i think the frequency shifted to much so he lost it for now.
[09:01] <PA1SDB> Hello nats'
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[09:02] <PB1DFT> when he wakes up he will fix it i guess...
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[09:03] <PA1SDB> PB1DFT It is just audible here in Appingedam right now, but no decode anymore. Sometimes totally gone. I'm around the border of the blue range circle...
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[09:04] <PB1DFT> can't tell as i'm at work atm ;)
[09:04] <PB1DFT> besides that receiver broke down yesterday so i had no luck at all doing any decoding
[09:06] <PB1DFT> i'm waiting for the funcubedongle so we can play with that a bit.
[09:07] <Maxell> PB1DFT: uploading with the nick PB1DFT, right?
[09:08] <Maxell> I do not see any uploads from your reciever http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/
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[09:09] <PB0NER> I left my radio on.. but the f drift made it not decoding for a while
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[09:09] <PB0NER> I might have an idea for afc for domino16
[09:09] <Maxell> PB1DFT: you did have a lot of decodes around 3 and 4 am
[09:10] <Maxell> and many you where the only one decoding
[09:10] <Maxell> been up all night? :P
[09:10] <PB1DFT> huh.. find that very weird as i didn't have a decoder online...
[09:10] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> goedemorgen nerderland!
[09:10] <PB1DFT> mogge
[09:10] <Maxell> oh that should e PB0NER
[09:10] <PB1DFT> indeed
[09:11] <Maxell> PB1DFT: both of your names start with PB. I'm used to typeing PB{TAB} and autocomplete
[09:11] <Maxell> hallo Wouter-[pa3weg]
[09:12] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> so Terry should disappear ;) to fix the autocomplete world
[09:12] <PB1DFT> Maxell: yep and when you are looking at a map it will be confusing too...
[09:12] <PB0NER> pb0[tab]
[09:12] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I lost tracking because of 1) drift and 2) antenna pointing
[09:12] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> lost it for abt 2hrs this morning
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[09:13] <PB1DFT> Wouter-[pa3weg]: didn't you send girlfriend to the roof to turn it ?.
[09:13] <PB0NER> i was at my pc until 03:00
[09:13] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> my imaginary girlfriend, yes, so the antennas were off by 90 :(
[09:13] <PB0NER> and left it
[09:14] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> Mhhh, then I had decent performance, leaving around midnight ISH
[09:16] <PB1DFT> lol @ Wouter-[pa3weg]
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[09:19] <Maxell> Wouter-[pa3weg]: you have Yagi at home?
[09:19] <PB0NER> no, that is @ his QRL (work)
[09:21] <Maxell> Updated my location too. I can see you Wouter-[pa3weg]
[09:23] <Maxell> PB0NER: yes do want that tracking yagi :P
[09:24] <PB0NER> what do you mean by that? I am planning a similar setup
[09:25] <PB0NER> not just for balloon tracking, I will build a Sat station
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[09:27] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> similar antennas, yes
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[09:27] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> similar rotators, probably not
[09:27] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> :D
[09:27] <PB0NER> you do not know me yet
[09:28] <PB0NER> I am planning a v8 powered rotor...
[09:28] <Maxell> PB0NER: you have free acces too the roof, I assume?
[09:29] <PB0NER> it is my roof.. yes
[09:29] <Maxell> Well, thats somewhat of a problem at my QTH or RevSpace.
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[09:30] <Maxell> I would love to setup so much stuff @ RevSpace. But roof access is now only accessable trough the private office of some photography studio
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[09:32] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> mhhhh.....wanna bet ;)
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[09:32] <Maxell> And the woman that own the studio got scared and started all kind of weird questions about the antenna we put up :P
[09:32] <PB0NER> you told me...
[09:32] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> oh great, tinfoil hats
[09:33] <DL1SGP> sounds like my neighbors Martijn
[09:33] <PB0NER> I am actally designing a hous
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[09:33] <PB0NER> e for a huge mast
[09:34] <PB0NER> @DL1SGP not sure what you mean by that
[09:34] <DL1SGP> my neighbors got scared of antennas too :)
[09:34] <PB0NER> by the way, did you QRZ.com my call?
[09:34] <DL1SGP> yes :)
[09:35] <PB0NER> I thought so
[09:36] <PB0NER> Guten Morgen Felix!
[09:36] <DL1SGP> Goedenmorgen Martijn
[09:36] <PB0NER> i'm off for a bit.. visitors
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[09:37] <DL1SGP> enjoy, talk to you later
[09:37] <PB0NER> u2
[09:37] <PA1SDB> Hear only only eternal noise fields on 434.500 MHz USB right now. B-14 gone here in N.E. part of the Netherlands - QTH Appingedam.... :-(
[09:38] Nick change: LeoBodnar -> LeoBodnar_
[09:38] <PA1SDB> Why ?
[09:39] <PB0NER> still going strong here
[09:39] <nats`> you didn't plug in the antenna ?
[09:39] <nats`> :D
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[09:40] <PA1SDB> nats' Deuh... :-)
[09:40] <PA1SDB> PB0NER Where R U
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[09:41] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> Appingedam is on the edge of the footprint
[09:41] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> so sounds about right
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[09:42] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> PB0NER is located in Pijnacker
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[09:42] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> should be on the map
[09:43] <PA1SDB> O.K. Tnx, Yes, footprint is right. Some ups and downs at the border of the footprint, but ten suddenly Noise noise and more noise....
[09:46] <PE9PE-Rob> How good or bad are these SDR Dongles to track these weak signal balloons?
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[09:51] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: pretty bad.
[09:51] <PE9PE-Rob> Okay Tnx info.
[09:51] <PB0NER> I am able to receive beyond the blue circle...
[09:51] <PA1SDB> PE9PE-Rob Good enough to add information to HAB ground control. Just befor the finger print did reach the border of my antenna, I was able to upload significant telemetry data to the server...
[09:51] <Maxell> But for $9 they are fucking doing the job
[09:51] <Maxell> like, $9 is almost free in the SDR / reciever world
[09:52] <PA1SDB> Maxell [like it]
[09:52] <PB0NER> no pre amp, no directional antenna... but it seems to work very well here (good grounding, prper cables/connectors etc)
[09:52] <PE9PE-Rob> My antenna will be at 35mtrs and 360 degrees free view.
[09:52] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: Getting band pass filter for 70cm and LNA for 70cm can really make the difference
[09:54] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: OK, however, the dynamic range is pretty limited, so if any other strong signals in the ISM band near it might be lost in mirrored images
[09:54] <PE9PE-Rob> @ Maxell, understand. Tnx info
[09:55] <PA1SDB> Where do you find a SSB receiver for ¬10 ? Perhaps not good for digging below the noise floor, but good enough for HABing...
[09:55] <Maxell> PA1SDB: no, you wont.
[09:56] <Maxell> And if it wasn't for rtl-sdr to be so cheap I might not gotten into hab tracking as much as I am now
[09:56] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: ok will the antenna on the mast have some gain?
[09:57] <PE9PE-Rob> @ PA1SDB this is the dongle i own http://dx.com/p/dvb-t-digital-tv-usb-2-0-dongle-with-remote-28891
[09:57] <PE9PE-Rob> @ Maxell i can install whatever i like. All is open.
[09:58] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: you can get cheapter at ebay!
[09:59] <Maxell> (and have free China Air mail shipping)
[09:59] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: yes, R820T tuner should be the one you'd get
[09:59] <PE9PE-Rob> @ Maxell okay. I don't want a PayPal account.
[09:59] <Maxell> I can highly recomend this filter+preamp
[10:00] <PE9PE-Rob> Okay
[10:00] <Maxell> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=83
[10:00] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> PE9PE-Rob: good that you clarify this, because the FUNcube Dongle is SDR too
[10:00] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> and much better
[10:00] <Maxell> However, it limits your antenna setup.
[10:01] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> but others already understood you meant RTL
[10:01] <PE9PE-Rob> @ Wouter yes i'm aware that the FunCube Dongle is much better, but i can't afford that at this moment.
[10:01] <Maxell> once again, 20 times the price is not fun when you are just starting
[10:02] <PE2G> Log time!
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[10:03] <PA1SDB> PE9PE-Rob I have same dongle case but other print :-)
[10:03] <Maxell> OK, I'm out. None of the string decoded properly
[10:03] <Maxell> You did well $9 reciever
[10:03] <Maxell> i loev you
[10:04] <PE9PE-Rob> Okay Peter SDB
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[10:13] <mikestir-work> morning all. can anyone confirm that spacenear doesn't work properly on Android Chrome?
[10:13] <mikestir-work> seems ok on iOS
[10:13] <Maxell> morning DutchMillbt
[10:13] <mattbrejza> snus barely works on desktop chrome...
[10:14] <mikestir-work> heh
[10:15] <x-f> try opening it with a filter
[10:15] <mikestir-work> I wondered if it might be fairly easy to fix. The name of the JS touch events are different between Safari and everything else iirc
[10:15] <mikestir-work> but they are otherwise fairly similar
[10:15] <mikestir-work> x-f: problem is that you can't interact with the map so it tends to be zoomed in too far even with a filter
[10:15] <x-f> mikestir-work, have you tried the mobile tracker too?
[10:16] <mikestir-work> not recently actually - I forgot about that. is it just /mobile on the end?
[10:16] <x-f> http://habhub.org/mt/
[10:17] <mfa298> mobile tracker works with the default browsers on my anddoid devices.
[10:17] <mikestir-work> just trying it. seems ok
[10:18] <mfa298> there's also the chase and track app for android (which can also decode your rtty)
[10:18] <mikestir-work> yeah I'm going to use mattbrejza's one for decoding on weds I think
[10:19] <mikestir-work> since we have one real rx
[10:20] <mikestir-work> any way to filter in the mobile tracker?
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[10:20] <malgar> where is b-14? it doesn't appear on the map
[10:20] <mattbrejza> that reminds me, i need to put the latest version on the play store
[10:21] <malgar> ok, now has been loaded
[10:21] <malgar> is the tme UTC?
[10:21] <malgar> time
[10:21] <fsphil> yes
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[10:22] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> Maxell: I am not suggesting it is abad investment
[10:22] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I have two RTLs as well
[10:22] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> just making sure people know how to refer to the dongles
[10:22] <malgar> uhm it's heading to northern italy.. Shuld I set up a receiving station? :D
[10:23] <PA1SDB> Not mux RX stations in fingerprint area right now....
[10:23] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> you can not beat the $8 buy, even if you have to do the pre-amp and filtering yourself.
[10:24] <Maxell> Wouter-[pa3weg]: oops, my bad. When he said "SDR Dongles" I read is as "RTL dongles". I should have asked what SDR dongle he ment
[10:25] <mfa298> if you can afford it it's well worth getting both the funcube and the rtl. RTL has the wider bandwidth so can be good to see whats happening accross the band, the funcube is much more sensitive so is good for weak signals
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[10:25] <DL7AD> http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/vk4fsgw.php?receiver=49
[10:26] <malgar> what's the hardware of B-14?
[10:26] <PE9PE-Rob> @ DL7AD Access denied on link.
[10:26] <PE2G> Do I need a HabAmp for the RTL dongle? Antenna cable length is 5 m here.
[10:27] <DL7AD> PE9PE-Rob: eh..... i have access
[10:27] <PE9PE-Rob> @ DL7AD i guess because you have an accoun there?
[10:27] <PE9PE-Rob> account?
[10:27] <DL7AD> PE9PE-Rob: yes i have
[10:27] <PE9PE-Rob> I don't so therefor i get access denied.
[10:28] <mfa298> PE2G: I think the habamp can help, but I've recieved payloads with an rtl dongle and antenna with no habamp (but the 817/funcube have heard payloads before the rtl)
[10:29] <PE2G> mfa298: Ok, thanks for the info. I like the RTL Dongle since it can rx the met-sonde band as well
[10:29] <Maxell> malgar: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-14/
[10:30] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> PE2G: how much noise do you have at your QTH?
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[10:30] <Maxell> PE9PE-Rob: http://bugmenot.com/view/globaltuners.com
[10:30] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> since the RTL sticks have only 8bit dynamic range, they suffer from overload if you do not filter them
[10:32] <Maxell> Wouter-[pa3weg]: The neherkade-repeater overloads the dongle on discone anntenna easely
[10:32] <DutchMillbt> Morning Maxell... internet connection was broken
[10:32] <Maxell> :P
[10:32] <PE2G> Wouter-[pa3weg]: VHF+UHF are relatively clean here, but I'm at the 12th floor
[10:32] <Maxell> PE2G: if you are using donle it helps bringing down the noise floor
[10:33] <Maxell> pump up the antenna signal, bring down any noise thats inside the dongle
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[10:33] <Maxell> RevSpace has the habamp direct infront of the dongle
[10:33] <PE2G> Maxell: OK, I see
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[10:33] <PE9PE-Rob> @ Maxell tnx
[10:34] <Maxell> When you disconnect your dongle it will still have noise floor
[10:34] <Maxell> when you connect your antenna it the signal will just peak just over it
[10:34] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> the trouble with the front-end of the RTL dongles is that it is wide open
[10:34] <Maxell> by pumping up the signal it the signal and noisefloor will separate, getting more signal/noise ratio
[10:35] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> so even pagers or FM broadcast stations nearby will produce intermodulation if you try to listen to weak signals at full gain
[10:35] <Maxell> yeo
[10:35] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> but if you are in a quiet RF environment, it is not a problem
[10:35] <Maxell> RevSpace is within 200 meters of C2000/P2000 pager transmitter
[10:35] <Maxell> No fun
[10:36] <Maxell> But with HABamp filter it works perfectly
[10:36] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> the RTL dongles are 8-bits, so 48dB Dynamic range, anything that is stronger then 48dB above the HAB you want to track will stuff up your reception
[10:37] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> any way, for $8 it is always worth the shot
[10:37] <Maxell> yes
[10:37] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> you get 2MHz of view width
[10:37] <craag> Yeah it's actually more like 7 bits for the rtls
[10:37] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> and if it turns out you have some problems, you can always buy the HAB amp
[10:37] <craag> As they're not set up perfectly
[10:37] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> or if you want to track satellites, the G0MRF pre-amp from AMSAT-UK
[10:37] <Maxell> Or get an hardware radio that does SSB on 70cm
[10:38] <craag> +1 for the habamp if you're just after balloons
[10:38] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> craag: true, but lets take the factory specs :D
[10:38] <Maxell> Something you might already have since you are amateur radio
[10:39] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> and yes, HABamp is perfect for these dongles, and great to have on the shelf as RF glue block
[10:39] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I have several similar designs I did myself
[10:39] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> with the sister chip of the HAB-amp, PSA-545+
[10:40] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I keep them with me for RF amplification emergencies ;) I actually carry one with me every day to work and back ;)
[10:40] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I have a small SDR lunchbox with ¨SDR first aid¨ in it
[10:40] <Maxell> lol
[10:40] <PE2G> Wouter-[pa3weg]: :-)
[10:40] <craag> haha Wouter, me too infact
[10:40] <Maxell> so you can do SDR-on-the-go on the bike?
[10:41] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I´ll snap a pic right away ;)
[10:41] <craag> usb extension, rtlsdr, some adaptors, habamp.
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[10:41] <craag> and a little diy 1/4 wave.
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[10:42] <PB0NER> amazing amount of crap entering in my reception, b-14 still going strong though
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[10:44] <PE2G> Thanks all, for your RTL advice!
[10:45] <Maxell> Discone antenna and R820T tuner doing AIS here: http://aprs.fi/#!call=i%2FRevSpace&v=heard
[10:45] <PB0NER> hmm digging into the dominoex16 code... and I think it will be possible to compensate for drift by changing the rx freq based on avarage decoding freq...
[10:45] <Maxell> Pretty impressive if I say so.
[10:46] <PB0NER> Radio connection to dl-fldigi is needed though
[10:46] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> http://pa3weg.nl/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/wpid-DSC_05891.jpg
[10:46] <craag> PB0NER: Can we not implement some rtty-like AFC with that?
[10:46] <craag> in dl-fldigi
[10:47] <Maxell> PB0NER: RigCAT or the HamLib?
[10:47] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> from left to right: cabinet key, SDR box, Rpi and network box
[10:47] <PB0NER> the AFC routines are (as far as I can see) ouside the decoding software
[10:47] <craag> Wouter-[pa3weg]: wow, beats mine by a long way!
[10:47] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> yes, it contains tie-wraps, screwdriver, swiss knife, and duct-tape on the bottom of one
[10:47] <PB0NER> thing is... what if it leaves the current 'audio' bandwith or waterfall, than radio rtune is needed
[10:48] <fsphil> AFC can be done in software so long as the signal remains in the audio bandwidth
[10:48] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I actually quite often end up needing this stuff
[10:48] <fsphil> and dl-fldigi has a feature to retune the radio automatically
[10:48] <fsphil> if the offset moves outside a set of limits
[10:48] <craag> PB0NER: Yes.. but dl-fldigi can already do that
[10:48] <PB0NER> yeah, and that key... is that used to power the stuff from the traindrivers cabin?
[10:48] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> yes, true
[10:48] <fsphil> it works quite well for rtty
[10:49] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> + gas distro[, elevator keys, lamp posts
[10:49] <craag> fsphil: So if we implemented AFC for dominoex, fldigi should handle the rig-retuning automatically?
[10:49] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> switchboards...
[10:49] <fsphil> craag: yep
[10:49] <fsphil> if that option is switched on anyway
[10:49] <mikestir-work> fsphil: does that work with hamlib?
[10:49] <PB0NER> well I got some ideas and I am digging into the code
[10:49] <fsphil> mikestir-work: yea
[10:49] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> the implementation of HAMLIB in DL-Fldigi slightly sucks if you want to network it
[10:50] <PB0NER> yes it will work with hamlib
[10:50] <fsphil> as long as dl-fldigi is configured to control the radio, the auto-retune will wor
[10:50] <mikestir-work> I might use that in the car on weds then instead of the android app
[10:50] <fsphil> +k
[10:50] <mikestir-work> I have the data cable so should be easy
[10:50] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> if DL-FLSIGI will talk to the deamons over sockets, I would happier
[10:50] <PB0NER> Wouter-[pa3weg]: and on OS X it is broken, I am working on that
[10:50] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> make it do sockets as well then
[10:51] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> just do it properly
[10:51] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> (i know you do)
[10:51] <PB0NER> I know...
[10:51] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> last time I checked, Hamlib was statically linked...
[10:51] <PB0NER> getting the domex16 afc working would be a minor patch
[10:52] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> and there is a rig defined that is using sockets, but a bit dirty
[10:52] Action: Wouter-[pa3weg] is making a sandwich, no sudo needed
[10:52] <PB0NER> on OSx the rig field is not filled correctly
[10:53] <PB0NER> just do not overload your input ports :-)
[10:54] <PB0NER> and enable your chew intterupt
[10:54] <PB0NER> -typo
[10:55] <PB0NER> I am curious if the domino will produce a longer range than my current rtty record (536km with my rig)
[10:55] <fsphil> remember this payload is not as high
[10:55] <PB0NER> currently 322 and counting
[10:55] <fsphil> getting good distances from it will require some propagation
[10:56] <fsphil> which can happen
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[10:57] <PB0NER> this is.... alt is 'only' 9km
[10:57] <PB0NER> and the pie ballon was much higher
[10:57] <fsphil> yep
[10:58] <DutchMillbt> not much the propagation front this week : http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_eur.html
[10:58] <PB0NER> can change in a minute or 2
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[11:00] <PB0NER> hmm still S9+ here...
[11:00] <PB0NER> close to the blue circle
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[11:01] <DutchMillbt> thats nice PB0NER
[11:02] <PB0NER> amazes me too
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[11:03] <craag> Looking at the B-14 graphs.. so much data.. interesting how the GPS gets more satellites in the afternoon..
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[11:03] <PB0NER> is seems more stable on freq during daytime...
[11:04] <PB0NER> good... work
[11:04] <PB0NER> needs my attention
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[12:01] <PE2G> Log time
[12:02] <malgar> what's mean the horizontal speed of B-14?
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[12:04] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> got some habitat errors in DL-FLDIGI
[12:05] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> incicentally, the heading looked rubbish
[12:05] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> was that coming from B-14, or my bad?
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[12:11] <PE2G> malgar: in the past 5 hrs, average horizontal speed was 39 km/h
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[12:17] <malgar> PE2G: interesting.. tnx
[12:18] <malgar> PE2G: did you check the raw data? could you link them to me?
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> Flying over Worms now
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[12:23] <Laurenceb__> odd altitude spikes
[12:24] <PE2G> malgar: You can get the telemetry here : http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[12:25] <PE2G> malgar: Follow the instructions
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[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: aircraft turbulence?
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[12:35] <LeoBodnar> If it gets too high it might blow
[12:35] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: nice GT tracker position
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> Maybe thermals over mountain range
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> Temperature gone up too
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[12:41] <LeoBodnar> There is almost 1kPa difference at 200m altitude difference at 9200m
[12:42] <eroomde> 's a lot
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> burst overpressure is only about 5-6kPa
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> Looks dangerous
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[12:47] <ramm25_> hello
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[12:56] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> someone TXing on B-14s frequency here
[12:56] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> so I guess thats it for weak signal decoding
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[13:00] <DL1SGP> well you did a great job Wouter, I had no luck today :(
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[13:07] <PB0NER> me lost it too
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[13:14] <Steffanx> Wouter-[pa3weg], find the transmitter and 'kill' it :)
[13:16] <LeoBodnar> Hills below are just 200m high but there are some clouds underneath. Maybe extra solar irradiation from below?
[13:16] <LeoBodnar> No other theories...
[13:16] <LeoBodnar> 500m hills
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[13:29] <LeoBodnar> Boom! 6 degrees temperature drop at once
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[13:32] <eroomde> do you think that's a burst LeoBodnar ?
[13:33] <LeoBodnar> No just some weird air undulations.
[13:33] <LeoBodnar> Very rapid OAT changes
[13:35] <eroomde> OAT?
[13:35] <Laurenceb__> looks like weird atmospheric stuff
[13:35] <Laurenceb__> what with the temperature
[13:35] <eroomde> Laurenceb, i spent this morning trying to get a from-scratch blinky to work on an stm32. it was instructive
[13:35] <Laurenceb__> heh
[13:35] <LeoBodnar> -6C to +3C within 5 minutes at the same altitude
[13:35] <Laurenceb__> its not the easiest thing to setup
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[13:36] <eroomde> from scratch meaning in assembler, with a homemade linker scrift and homemade openocd config and so on
[13:36] <eroomde> yeah it's not!
[13:36] <Laurenceb__> eek
[13:36] <Laurenceb__> asm
[13:36] <eroomde> had a bit of an issue with the thumb instruction stuff having to end in 1
[13:36] <eroomde> and just how much of the vecotr table you have to initialise
[13:36] <LeoBodnar> Haha! odd address means Thumb doesn't it?
[13:36] <zyp> yep
[13:36] <eroomde> which it turns out is only the first 4 for some reason, and this is not at all mentioned in the st programmer's reference manual
[13:37] <zyp> and cortex-m is thumb only, so it'll hardfault if you don't have the bit set
[13:37] <LeoBodnar> Carry-over from older ARM days
[13:37] <eroomde> but it is in the cortex m3 instruction manual for arm, which i didn't look at because the st programmers referenc emanual seems to be 99% the same (same diagrams and eveything) so I assumed it was good enough, turns out, no
[13:38] <zyp> eroomde, the reason is that the first four vectors are initial stack, reset, NMI and hardfault, i.e. the only ones that can't be disabled
[13:38] <eroomde> yeah, grokked that eventually
[13:38] <eroomde> makes sense in hindsight
[13:38] <zyp> and for stuff in the cpu core, I also tend to just read ARM's own documentation
[13:38] <eroomde> just wasn't sure at the time if tha was the case of my errorage
[13:38] <eroomde> yeah, have certainl learnt that sson now!
[13:38] <Laurenceb__> i just copy and paste the ST startup code
[13:39] <zyp> also, cortex-m is supposed to let you get by without any assembly, since stack is set up by hardware for you
[13:39] <eroomde> this is what i really wanted to avoid doing
[13:39] <LeoBodnar> grokked - lovely. Haven't heard it for ages
[13:39] <Laurenceb__> you can easily persuade their example projects to build with any of the GCC toolchains
[13:39] <eroomde> zyp, for sure, and indeed having to initialise the stack pointer at the beginning was something i didn;t think i would have to do for that reason
[13:39] <eroomde> coming from smaller micros
[13:39] <Laurenceb__> as im uber lazy i usually find an example project that does what i want first
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> there are so many of them
[13:40] <eroomde> Laurenceb__, sure, but i specificlaly wanted to start from scratch so i could try and understand all this stuff on the cortex
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> yeah good plan
[13:40] <eroomde> where to put say a random bootloader to update over ethernet, say
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> you need to know how to edit linker scripts and stuff to have any chance of making something work
[13:41] <eroomde> precisely
[13:41] <eroomde> it was quite instructive. i certainly agree it's not the ideal way to get going quickly though
[13:41] <Laurenceb__> today is the last day of my life as a "student" :D
[13:41] <eroomde> but just reading the man for -ld was interesting
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[13:42] <eroomde> congrats Laurenceb__
[13:42] <eroomde> what next?
[13:42] <Laurenceb__> well ive got a "job" for the next two years
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[13:42] <Laurenceb__> working on a "DPFS" project
[13:42] <Laurenceb__> but thats no life
[13:42] <LeoBodnar> Do they block IRC ?
[13:43] <Laurenceb__> i'll be looking for a proper job after some time chillaxing
[13:43] <Laurenceb__> heh no chance
[13:43] <eroomde> DPFS?
[13:43] <Laurenceb__> it skills are nonexistent
[13:43] <Laurenceb__> Developmental Pathway Funding Scheme
[13:43] <eroomde> sounds governmental
[13:44] <Laurenceb__> commercialising my PhD work
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[13:44] <eroomde> what kind of job would you like?
[13:45] <Laurenceb__> which sounds good in theory but its going to be killed by braindead management
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[13:45] <Laurenceb__> im not sure... aerospace seems boring as a job
[13:45] <eroomde> that's not really a job
[13:45] <eroomde> that's a sector
[13:45] <Laurenceb__> I was considering trying for a job with Smith and Nephew
[13:46] <Laurenceb__> they arent a trance act
[13:46] <Laurenceb__> yeah but everything aerospace seems tedious and slow and ....
[13:47] <eroomde> i would say that's not true, just 95% of it is like that
[13:47] <Laurenceb__> heh
[13:47] <Laurenceb__> http://www.smith-nephew.com/uk/products/wound_management/product-search/pico/
[13:47] <Laurenceb__> ^my PhD work is very similar to that
[13:47] <eroomde> and it's hard finding the right 5%
[13:47] <eroomde> took my a couple of attempts :)
[13:47] <eroomde> me*
[13:47] <Laurenceb__> and I recently met the guys who developed it
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> medical stuff sounds boring and bureaucracy driven, but i'd say its actually less like that than aerospace
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[13:49] <Laurenceb__> theres more going on and more money too
[13:49] <eroomde> good meeting?
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[13:52] <number10> you'll be having to read EN60601 Laurenceb__
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> hahahahaaa
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> number10: ive done the documentation for a few devices
[13:52] <number10> from what I have seen its not a good read
[13:53] <number10> ah... should be no problem for you
[13:53] <Laurenceb__> eroomde: yeah very interesting - the guy who invented it still owns the patents himself
[13:53] <Laurenceb__> licenses them on a per device basis to the company
[13:53] <Hix> quick question for the tech heads. looking to put my limited knowledge of radio transmission to use as a wireless flash trigger system. assuming 1/2000s exposure time, could an FSK system work with a window of 0.5ms?
[13:54] <Hix> or am I just wasting my time
[13:54] <eroomde> zyp, in general would n00by questions about, forexample, which of the vector table needs initialising straight away be suitable for ##stm32 or is it more for people who know what they're doing?
[13:54] <eroomde> i don't want to be the stm32 equivalent of the guy asking why the led won't blink on his arduino
[13:54] <Laurenceb__> hehe
[13:54] <Laurenceb__> ##strollm32
[13:55] <eroomde> Hix, yes quite probably, though you might struggle with the frequency cutoff on an ntx2
[13:55] <LeoBodnar> stm32 machine code is written in "sketch" isn't it?
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[13:56] <Laurenceb__> no, VB6
[13:56] <zyp> eroomde, it'll be more on topic than most conversation on the channel, so it should be fine
[13:56] <eroomde> Hix, the fastest rising edge you can get through an ntx2 with an in theory good cutoff is about 0.07ms
[13:57] <Hix> cheers eroomde I'll research frequency cutoff. maybe something other than an NTX2 for power reasons
[13:57] <eroomde> and given the cutoff freq won't be that good, you can do even better
[13:57] <eroomde> so yes, you should be able to get several bits through in 0.5ms, assuming ntx2
[13:57] <Hix> sweet.
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> Maybe send duration first and then trigger it?
[13:57] <eroomde> but if you just want a 'go' signal then you probably don't even need data
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> Or it is controlled by camera?
[13:58] <eroomde> zyp, cool thanks
[13:58] <Hix> did think of duration and then trigger, though I need to understand how Nikon speaks to its flashes
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> Is it one of those smart - off the film reflection power control systems?
[13:58] <Hix> i think there is a fire signal followed by a quench signal
[13:59] <LeoBodnar> Nikon had some sensors in the film chamber measuring reflected light off the film
[13:59] <LeoBodnar> So even manual lenses could be used
[13:59] <Hix> TTL yes LeoBodnar though i was just aiming for power levels, which should be fairly simple
[14:00] <Hix> I'm gonna need a scope for this arent I
[14:00] <Hix> not a microscope :/
[14:01] <Hix> LeoBodnar I believe TTL still reads light from the prism yes
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> Yes, it's not TTL it was off the film with mirror up so it compensates for lens properties, F-stop, filters, etc
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> Some proprietary Nikon stuff
[14:03] <Hix> my main concern is that different flashguns have different durations for a given power level.
[14:05] <Laurenceb__> did someone say power levels?
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik
[14:06] <eroomde> it occured to me last night that a battery of flash guns would be just the thing to stop tailgaiters at night
[14:06] <LeoBodnar> dBz
[14:06] <LeoBodnar> relative to 1 zap
[14:06] <eroomde> someone was driving up my bum for about 6 miles coming back from cambridge last night
[14:06] <nats`> dazzler effect ? :D
[14:06] <eroomde> 2 or 3 high power flashgun flashes from a rig installed behind the rear window would be just the thing to put them off
[14:06] <eroomde> then maybe the tar slick
[14:07] <Laurenceb__> oooh finally
[14:07] <Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/30/ballmer_video_farewell/
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[14:08] <la3eq> B-14 is realy go places :)
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> or not
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> B-11 was kind of faster
[14:13] <enkidu> B14 will be too- it approches jet stream
[14:13] <craag> Is internal temperature inside the balloon?
[14:13] <enkidu> http://meteomodel.pl/gfs.php?domena=gfseu&parametr=WIND300
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[14:13] <craag> Interesting to see the temperature surge just before that altitude bump.
[14:14] <Laurenceb__> yeah, some sort of atmospheric.. thing
[14:15] <craag> :)
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> thingularity
[14:15] <craag> We need fleets of these so we can see it in 3D :D
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[14:18] <enkidu> there is little convection over Germany
[14:18] <enkidu> so it is warm updraft I believe
[14:19] <Laurenceb__> very high for an updraft
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[14:20] <PE2G> The Idar-Oberstein, Stuttgart and München 12UTC soundings didn't show any temp surges at our near B-14's alt.
[14:20] <PE2G> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/europe.html
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[14:23] <enkidu> but lapse rate is not adiabatic (neither dry nor moist)
[14:29] <la3eq> When the tempurature rises the balloon goes down???
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[14:29] <la3eq> if it meets cooler air it goes upward???
[14:31] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
[14:31] <eroomde> pong
[14:31] <eroomde> oh shit!!
[14:31] <eroomde> that was what it was!!
[14:31] <eroomde> i had a random reminder go off at 8.55 with no data in it on my phone
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[14:31] <eroomde> bollocks!
[14:33] <jcoxon> damn
[14:34] <jcoxon> they've now sold out of 7th Nov
[14:34] <LazyLeopard> clearly not good....
[14:34] <LazyLeopard> ...whatever it is.
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[14:35] <jcoxon> ed was meant to book something which has now sold out
[14:35] <jcoxon> :-(
[14:35] <LazyLeopard> Ho hum.
[14:35] <LazyLeopard> Popular , whatever it was.
[14:36] <eroomde> jcoxon, sorry, that was a total fail
[14:36] <jcoxon> its alright
[14:36] <eroomde> was at a wedding in cam all weekend, totally shattered and totally not mentally with it this morning
[14:36] <jcoxon> you could still go on another day
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[14:40] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[14:41] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> afternoon
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[14:42] <LeoBodnar> So whatever it was stretched the balloon even more and if it does not come down we are going to float even higher at night :(
[14:42] <LeoBodnar> It was hitting -41C last night!
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[14:58] <eroomde> hackaday comments at their best
[14:58] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/0OdYBtx.png
[14:59] <fsphil> very good
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[15:08] <Hix> them thar pointers are the same as XKCD....
[15:08] <Hix> pseudo-random
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[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> lol
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[15:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Flight path to date http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-14_20130928/B-14_201309301615.jpg
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[15:29] <Laurenceb__> is there one of those for B-11?
[15:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> What with the profile on or just the flight path ?
[15:32] <Laurenceb__> both
[15:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There is now http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=18
[15:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Click the image for full size
[15:34] <LeoBodnar> This is epic picture. Now you CAN see the curvature of the Earth! :)
[15:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'm in Python trying to make a list of numbers like this: [1,2,3,4,5,6] The problem is, when I try to get this data from the user input, it includes all the spaces like [" ", " ", " ", 4, 5,6]. Any ideas how to get a list of numbers from an input?
[15:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> B-11 & B-12 http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-12_20130902/B-11%20&%20B-12%20Flight%20paths.jpg
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[15:39] <Laurenceb__> heh 8040km
[15:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> When I get up to the main machine I'll do all the paths on one plot, need the extra resolution I think for best effects!
[15:41] <Laurenceb__> thats third place if you count total distance
[15:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Actually that distance is a little short I wasn't able to get any reasonable data for the shortcut across Monaco due to the lack of stations
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[15:43] <Ugi> Hi guys - I've been trying to export the telemetry data from yesterday's flight out of Habitat but I'm struggling - can only get it in JSON format, which means nothing to me
[15:43] <Ugi> Anyone have any ideas?
[15:43] <Ugi> I'd really just like the CSV to play with in Excel
[15:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Try KML and paste it into GE ? Would you like an image ?
[15:43] <LeoBodnar> what is the problem? csv works fine for me
[15:44] <Ugi> When I select CSV I still get JSON format file
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[15:44] <Ugi> or at least with a .json extension
[15:44] <mattbrejza> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/ept/_list/csv/payload_telemetry/flight_payload_time?include_docs=true&startkey=[%2282cc629da942b73544b9b5d9f52a770b%22,%2239eaf70a538011a74f44b83e7053db07%22]&endkey=[%2282cc629da942b73544b9b5d9f52a770b%22,%2239eaf70a538011a74f44b83e7053db07%22,[]]&fields=_receivers,sentence_id,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,satellites,temperature_internal,temperature_external,pressure_mbar,battery,status ?
[15:44] <mattbrejza> is just csv
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[15:45] <LeoBodnar> You probably don't want receiver's callsigns for export?
[15:45] <Ugi> thanks mattbrejza - did you generate that from the habitat web page?
[15:45] <LeoBodnar> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/ept/_list/csv/payload_telemetry/flight_payload_time?include_docs=true&startkey=[%2282cc629da942b73544b9b5d9f52a770b%22,%2239eaf70a538011a74f44b83e7053db07%22]&endkey=[%2282cc629da942b73544b9b5d9f52a770b%22,%2239eaf70a538011a74f44b83e7053db07%22,[]]&fields=sentence_id,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,satellites,temperature_internal,temperature_external,pressure_mbar,battery,status
[15:46] <mattbrejza> yea i just went to ept and clicked on csv
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[15:46] <Ugi> mattbrejza: when I do that it still gives me a .json file!
[15:46] <mattbrejza> yea but it containts csv data?
[15:48] <Ugi> Oh. Maybe. I didn't think to open it in notepad & check!
[15:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/ToGo1/ToGo1_Flight_path.jpg
[15:51] <Ugi> cool! thanks Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[15:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you want an object movie say so or a Pano, the data is all there! Just that I wasn't!
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[15:55] <Ugi> Thanks guys - yes, it does open as a csv so I'm just getting confused over nothing! Cheers
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[15:59] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[15:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Guys :-)
[16:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah, Ugi Any chance of that code?
[16:00] <craag> Hi Steve
[16:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Phil :D
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[16:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Talking of code... ping daveake
[16:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh well, while I wait... I see B14 is still going. Cool.
[16:03] <craag> Yeah, and not being boring either, some kind of warm updraft earlier today.
[16:03] <Willdude123> Hi craag
[16:03] <Willdude123> I was thinking about VHF DXing. How is it that it's possible to get a signal to Spain on VHF?
[16:03] <daveake> brb phone
[16:03] <fsphil> or encounter with an aircraft :)
[16:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK daveake
[16:04] <craag> Willdude123: it is when the atmosphere is on your side, I've talked to Spain on 440MHz with 5W!
[16:04] <craag> All depends on propagation
[16:05] <fsphil> meteor trails can reflect radio waves over very long distance too
[16:05] <craag> fsphil: There's quite a sustained increase in temp.
[16:05] <craag> and the moon :)
[16:05] <fsphil> it used to be possible to detect the carrier of TV stations in spain from here
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[16:05] <fsphil> though I think all the analogue stations are gone now
[16:06] <Ugi> hi G0TDJ_Steve - yes, but I'm at work ATM. I'll put it up in an hour or so when I finish, if that's OK.
[16:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh sure :-) You can just e-mail it if you prefer
[16:07] <craag> There's a lot of cool stuff you can do, my mind was blown when my dad would point the yagi at passing aircraft during ATV contests to get over-the-horizon contacts.
[16:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's just too cool craag
[16:07] <fsphil> haha
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[16:09] <Ugi> G0TDJ_Steve: I'll upload it somewhere shortly and post the link, although there is the "below 1000m" bug in it which you will want to watch for when you look through. I think it's just a minor fix thou'
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[16:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK, cheers :-)
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[16:11] <Ugi> since radio waves can reflect off the moon, has anyone ever tried sending a pulse and timing it's return to get an estimate of moon distance? Would be a cool demo for the kids
[16:11] <Ugi> I'm only taking stapwatch accuracy, not distance to the mm
[16:11] <craag> You could, but the equipment required to do it isn't small.
[16:11] <Ugi> stop
[16:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Look up EME its a common mode
[16:11] <fsphil> big antenna
[16:11] <mfa298> Ugi: I did that (as a kid) at a science thing
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[16:12] <fsphil> neater than that, people have some something similar with venus
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doesn't have to be that big, these days, its the low noise front end that is the rick!
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> even 8Trick
[16:12] <Willdude123> How do radio waves bounce off the moon?
[16:12] <Ugi> mfa298: would you need to be licensed to do it, or is there a freq where you could use enough power without a license?
[16:12] <fsphil> same way light does Willdude123
[16:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> No normal amateur license
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[16:13] <mfa298> they arranged for a guy in Texas with a big EME setup to send a morse dit and keep doing it when he heard the return, we then listened in to the dits and measured the time (in the middle of the night)
[16:13] <PE9PE-Rob> Moonbounce http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/moonbounce
[16:13] <Willdude123> Does one need a big setup to bounce waves off the moon?
[16:13] <fsphil> you could also bounce radio waves of the sun
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> You need a bit more than your average setup! Large array and very low noise level front ends
[16:14] <fsphil> no, but detecting it is the trick. the power of the echo will be seriously weak
[16:14] <mfa298> you tend to need a directional antenna (several yagi's together) to keep the signal fairly narrow.
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.eme2012.com/eme/gb2eme.html
[16:15] <PE9PE-Rob> Moonbounce http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EME_%28communications%29
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[16:15] <fsphil> can't find any references to anyone actually doing earth-sun-earth
[16:15] <LeoBodnar> Bouncing off the Sun might be quite a boring QSO
[16:16] <fsphil> just some papers on the topic
[16:16] <craag> LeoBodnar: Not more boring than JT65 on 80m surely...
[16:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Duh too much noise from the Sun! Could try bouncing it off a copy of the Sun .... newspaper ;-)
[16:17] <fsphil> sadly the The Sun is as useless in this area as it is in many others
[16:17] <PE9PE-Rob> @ Geoff only Page 3 will bounce :)
[16:17] <fsphil> -the
[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Simple Harmonic Motion most of the time, worth calculating the frequency off course ;-)
[16:19] <eroomde> there has been earth-venus-earth by amateurs
[16:19] <eroomde> which is fun
[16:19] <Ugi> eroomde: you must need a pretty good receiver for that one!
[16:19] <eroomde> they had a dish i believe
[16:20] <Ugi> what % of transmitted power returns, I can't imagine
[16:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/march2009/eve.htm
[16:20] <Ugi> Yes, I suspect a big fish would be in order
[16:20] <Ugi> dish
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> dish slapping dance
[16:21] <eroomde> a big fish would also help
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> You could start with a WiFi card ;-)
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.qsl.net/d/dl4yhf///////speclab/earth_venus_earth.htm
[16:23] <mattbrejza> also at http://www.qsl.net/d/dl4yhf////////////////////////////////////////////////////////speclab/earth_venus_earth.htm
[16:24] Nick change: Steffanx -> Steffan-
[16:24] <mattbrejza> so 20m dish and 6kW
[16:24] <eroomde> and good dsp
[16:25] <mattbrejza> seems they only used 600W
[16:25] <mattbrejza> but thats 1.34GW EIRP...
[16:27] <arko> eroomde: that had comment lol
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[16:34] <M6GTG_nerdsville> Out of interest if you have a yagi you can pick up moonbounce transmissions on your Funcubes
[16:35] <M6GTG_nerdsville> a bit late to the conversation - was working
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[16:36] <Ugi> transmitted from where M6GTG_nerdsville ?
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[16:37] <M6GTG_nerdsville> amateurs firing signals at the moon, reflected back so if you can see the moon you might catch the reflection
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[16:38] <Ugi> M6GTG_nerdsville: OK. I wondered from your comment whether there was some regular transmission that did this.
[16:38] <gonzo_> you will need reasonably big yagi's and a good low noise preamp for moonbounce
[16:39] <M6GTG_nerdsville> blogged about it http://nerdsville.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/really-annoying-qrm-splatter.html
[16:40] <M6GTG_nerdsville> I was never sure if what I received was from the moon, or from some other path
[16:41] <M6GTG_nerdsville> I am just talking about rx not tx'ing
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[16:47] <M6GTG_nerdsville> \quit
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[16:53] <det> no new position from B-14 for more than 20 minutes
[16:55] <Upu_M0UPu> Who is RS010
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[16:56] <PH3V> Station in Strasbourg
[16:56] <Upu_M0UPu> I know but is he/she on here ?
[16:57] <Upu_M0UPu> interested to know if B-14 is still transmitting
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[16:58] <det> I guess it is still transmitting ok,just not direct visual line between RS010 and B-14 currently
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[17:00] <det> black forest hills may be the obstacle
[17:00] Mik_WD8MNV (32889d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.136.157.96) joined #highaltitude.
[17:00] <LeoBodnar> I think it drifted off the frequency and RS010 is unattended at the moment
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[17:05] <dl7ad> Good evening
[17:05] <det> so no need to worry
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[17:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyone played with Z8Encore on here?
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[17:27] <Willdude123> Upu_M0UPu, you have a capitalization issue
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> You have punctuation issues, Willdude123.
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[17:29] <x-f> you have connection issues, LeoBodnar
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[17:29] <LeoBodnar> Lol indeed XD
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[17:29] <WillHelm> It's just that the last letter is lower case.
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[17:59] <LeoBodnar> evening!
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[17:59] <LeoBodnar> Any signs of B-14?
[17:59] <DL7AD> nope
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> I could hear it drifting down the frequency some time after last reading was received
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[18:01] <mclane> I am just setting up my equipment, any details about frequency?
[18:01] <mclane> still 434.5 MHz sharp?
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[18:03] <mclane> got it!
[18:04] <bertrik> mclane: cool, where are you located?
[18:04] <mclane> 48.6459 10.5982
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[18:04] <mclane> Regensburg Germany
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[18:06] <mclane> altitude 3629 m :-((
[18:06] <la3eq> Has WGGS1 been been launched???? Confliking info om tracker map!
[18:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> mclane: What's the dial freq. please?
[18:07] <enkidu> mclane: either it bursted, either glitch
[18:07] <fsphil> possibly glitch
[18:07] <fsphil> if you didn't get a full decode, there's hope :)
[18:07] <mclane> 434.500
[18:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> Dead on?
[18:07] <mclane> 2.6 kHz
[18:07] <mclane> full decode
[18:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool. I'm just trying a remote
[18:08] <LeoBodnar> leaked helium at the top of the altitude kick of unknown origin
[18:08] <fsphil> are you in online mode mclane?
[18:08] <mclane> just switched to online
[18:08] <DL7AD> mclane: audio record. make an audio record first!
[18:08] <fsphil> online is more important :)
[18:08] <fsphil> awww, it's true
[18:09] <LeoBodnar> Make running commentary! :D
[18:09] <fsphil> she's coming down
[18:09] Nick change: Upu_M0UPu -> Upu
[18:09] <DL7AD> fsphil: if you dont know how to decode it, audio record will be faster than troubleshooting...
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[18:10] <LeoBodnar> Right place at the right time mclane !
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[18:10] <bertrik> is -4 deg C is consistent with 3.3 km altitude?
[18:11] <Upu> oh mclane picked it up
[18:11] <Upu> super
[18:11] <Upu> at least some germans have radios not at college
[18:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nothing on remotes
[18:12] <mclane> Just returned home from work
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> lol snipe
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[18:12] <LeoBodnar> saved the bacon!
[18:12] <DL7AD> yes bacon for all LeoBodnar :D
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[18:13] <enkidu> It might been kicked by airplane contrail
[18:13] <LeoBodnar> It was a very gradual ascent and a LOT of warm air
[18:13] <enkidu> stream of hot vapour made it rise and then surface didnt withstand delta p
[18:13] <DL7AD> enkidu: yes could be theres a VOR in the near were it went up.
[18:14] <mclane> next green decode: 3075 m
[18:15] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: contrail has high amount of heat energy
[18:15] <enkidu> vapour is losing temperature, condensing, water is losing temperature, freezing, ice is losing temperature
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> 10 degrees temperature rise is massive
[18:16] <mclane> is there a beep every 2 seconds or so?
[18:16] <enkidu> and it has high area, at first moments starts ascending constantly ginivg energy to sorrounding
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[18:17] <enkidu> I hope it is not burst, but ice on balloon and payload, but if it doesnt heat up...
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[18:18] <bertrik> what was the link again to see telemetry as a graph?
[18:19] <Mik_WD8MNV> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/120d309024cfd89edfcd528fa7e8cbad#g/battery,solar_panel,temperature_internal
[18:19] <mclane> next decode altitude 2818 m
[18:19] <fsphil> what chance of recovery?
[18:20] <mclane> its 100 km away from me :-(
[18:21] <mclane> roughly
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[18:23] <mclane> altitude 2560m
[18:24] <keydash_> finally i've listened an airplane :D
[18:24] <keydash_> for two seconds and with much noise
[18:24] <keydash_> but im happy
[18:24] <keydash_> xD
[18:24] Nick change: clopez_ -> clopez
[18:28] <mikestir> do I remember someone saying that Hwoyees often burst higher than expected?
[18:28] <mclane> next decode 2279m
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[18:29] <mclane> coordinates are only in short form (2 digits afzer the point) but green decode?
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> Quite stable descent
[18:30] <enkidu> if checksum is correct it is OK
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> Zeros are dropped off
[18:30] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: either constant leakage, either it has higher mass. We have to wait
[18:31] <enkidu> mclane: hast du eine Freund in Munchen?
[18:31] <mclane> I tried to reach him; but maybe he is already on his way home
[18:31] <mclane> it is north of Augsburg
[18:32] <enkidu> ok
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[18:33] <mclane> next decode: 2023m
[18:35] <mclane> I lost the signal - no beeps any more
[18:35] Action: enkidu is requesting radiosounding from munchen
[18:35] <enkidu> water
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[18:37] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: is B vulnerable to condensation?
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[18:37] <LeoBodnar> Electronics is not but envelope is like any balloon
[18:38] <enkidu> but envelope is open, right?
[18:38] <enkidu> heat shrink tube?
[18:39] <mclane> signal is gone - should have received something by now
[18:39] <enkidu> mclane: wait for it. it wight got wet
[18:39] <enkidu> might*
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[18:40] <mclane> my last position was at 48.6312, 10.6773 2023m
[18:40] <mclane> I will stay tuned
[18:40] <enkidu> are you able to stream audio?
[18:40] <LeoBodnar> cool :)
[18:40] <mclane> no
[18:41] <mclane> no clue how to do that
[18:41] <enkidu> ok no time for it right now
[18:41] <mclane> I have a 7 element yagi + habamp+fcd
[18:41] <mclane> running gqrx on linux + dl-fldigi
[18:42] <enkidu> but the fact it disappeared after entering warm air layer made me think what is happening
[18:42] <DL7AD> whos going to search it? ;)
[18:43] <mclane> we would need some extrapolation of landing position
[18:44] <mclane> the french are good in that
[18:44] <mclane> where are you located DL7AD?
[18:44] <DL7AD> mclane: berlin
[18:45] <mclane> ok, so a bit far to join a search ;-)
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[18:45] <DL7AD> mclane: i will be able to search for it by plane but even there its a bit too far away from me ,)
[18:46] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: you left down of tube open. It is where vapour entered internals. ice started melting and shorted some pins (contrails have some salts dissolved)
[18:47] <enkidu> http://www.pakuya.com/upload/20111114/Clear_Plastic_Pen_Tubes.jpg
[18:47] <enkidu> wonder if such tubes with hot glue (or cyanoacrylate) would do the job
[18:50] <mclane> looks like a landing in the danube river
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> It drifted off frequency during descent and RS010 probably was away to keep RX adjusted
[18:50] <mclane> then I have just to wait for some days to pick it up here in Regensburg ;-))
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> I could hear it on Odenwals globaltuners but they probably have directional antenna, as soon as it passed overhead the signal has dropped a lot
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> haha
[18:51] <enkidu> mclane: actually it may start rising
[18:51] <DL7AD> mclane: i also said this to LeoBodnar ^^
[18:51] <enkidu> there was a similar case with balloon that entered rainfall
[18:52] <enkidu> as soon as water evaporated, balloon rised
[18:52] <bertrik> well, is it raining over there?
[18:52] <DL7AD> no
[18:52] <mclane> no
[18:52] <mclane> some clouds, but should clear up during the night
[18:52] <DL7AD> already checked that
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> It's a classic helium loss I think
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> But I have been proven wrong before
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> Every time
[18:53] <enkidu> lets see. anyways descent rate was very constant
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[18:53] <enkidu> like it was constant mass exceeding free lift
[18:53] <DL7AD> mclane: are you going to try to get it back?
[18:54] <WillHelm> I'm bored. I need some good music
[18:54] <mclane> not tonight
[18:54] <mclane> probably Thursday
[18:55] <enkidu> WillHelm: i suggest you some good German classics, especially marches
[18:55] <mclane> (I will work tomorrow)
[18:55] <enkidu> ie. links 2 3 4
[18:55] <DL7AD> omg
[18:56] Nick change: WillHelm -> Willdude123
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[18:57] <mclane> its about 2 h driving to that area from here
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[19:00] <mclane> just for the records: my fcd was tuned to 434.501 MHz; reception was around 1.7 kHz in dl-fldigi
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[19:01] <enkidu> I like german. It is very simple language to learn. There is only one drawback: every word sounds as genocide order...
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[19:07] <mclane> LeoBodnar: when will you plan your next floater? ;-)
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> I am planning it already it's just a question of making it :)
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> In a few day's time I guess
[19:09] <bertrik> are you doing any more improvements to the payload?
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[19:20] <LeoBodnar> RS010 has received this: ...3037,172047,130930,48.7374,10.4535,5985,7,-20,4.21,0.1*0882
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> $$B-14,3038,172305,1P0930,48.7308,10.4698,5857,7,-20,4.22,0.13*cb94
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> If it carries on the same straight path after turn then the X markes the spot 500m radius ... http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-14_20130928/B-14_Landing_spot_q.jpg
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> Good job Geoff-G8DHE. I reckon it's either a tree or river
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[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Good chance of river :-( But at low height the winds can vary so much .....
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've done another image at right angles to see possible path...
[19:24] <mclane> how long will the battery last?
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> If it isn't just rain weighing it down ....
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[19:37] <Upu> Helios why are you stolen ?
[19:40] Action: mfa298 is glad he's not a Soton Virgin customer (juding by the Helios* and Muzer disconnects)
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[19:41] <Muzer> mfa298: yeah
[19:41] <Muzer> it's strangely correlated with all the students arriving back
[19:41] <Muzer> I had 60Mbit/s (what I pay for) solidly throughout the day beforehand ;)
[19:41] <Muzer> now I'm getting 500 bytes per second
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:42] <Muzer> though that disconnect of mine was actually me rebooting my router to try to make it suck less
[19:42] <Muzer> which seems to have had some effect
[19:42] <mfa298> I still get the 8Mbit/s I always get (city exchange that's smaller than most rural exchanges)
[19:42] <mikestir> Muzer: is it the virgin superhub router?
[19:43] <Muzer> it is indeed. Yes, I know.
[19:43] <mikestir> get another one and put it in modem mode
[19:43] <mikestir> works fine then
[19:43] <Muzer> yeah. I'm still thinking of doing that. The thing is, the router almost sort of does everything I need it to
[19:44] <mikestir> yeah, except route :D
[19:44] <Muzer> well, I blame my connection right now rather than my router :P
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[19:44] <mikestir> I use a TP-Link gigabit router running openwrt and the superhub in modem mode
[19:44] <mikestir> is rock solid
[19:45] <Muzer> I'd like to be proven wrong to get counteract the inertia stopping me buying a router :P
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[19:46] <LeoBodnar> mclane: about a day I would guess
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> evening mclane
[19:46] <MIG-29> hello everybody! :)
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello :)
[19:47] <mikestir> so anyone about who could advise if there would be any drawbacks (other than altitude) of going for a fairly fast ascent?
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[19:47] <Steve_2e0vet> how do you gently persuade the caa to accept a notam, they have now ignored 2 of mine
[19:48] <mfa298> you can pick up tp link routers fairly cheaply on ebay (although the one I got doesn't seem to be that happy with wireless). Although I am comparing the stability to a Cisco AP.
[19:49] <Upu> mikestir other than altitude not much just uses more gas
[19:49] <mikestir> ok. aiming for more like 6.5 m/s is currently looking safer from the point of view of landing in inaccessible parts of the peak district
[19:50] <mclane> LeoBodnar: then Thursday is probably too late
[19:50] <Upu> yeah I would roll with faster :)
[19:50] <Upu> what sized balloon ?
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[19:50] <mikestir> 1200
[19:50] <Upu> Helium ?
[19:50] <mikestir> yes
[19:50] <Upu> is it a T cylinder ?
[19:50] <mclane> (that would be the first possible day for me - public holiday here)
[19:50] <mikestir> it's a Hwoyee as well - did I recall someone saying they tend to go higher than expected?
[19:51] <Upu> yeah always :)
[19:51] <mikestir> 3.6m^2, which is T I think?
[19:51] <Upu> we've seen 40km from a 1200g
[19:51] <Upu> yes that a T
[19:51] <mikestir> there's loads more than we need
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[19:51] <Upu> you reckon :)
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> evening anthony
[19:51] <Upu> how much does your payload weigh ?
[19:51] <Upu> hi Lunar
[19:51] <mikestir> 490g apparently
[19:51] <mikestir> including chute
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[19:52] <ReadError> dumb vague question
[19:52] <Upu> you're going to need it all
[19:52] <ReadError> how much is the helium required for a standard launch?
[19:52] <ReadError> i realize volume etc may vary
[19:52] <Upu> how big is your balloon ReadError ?
[19:52] <ReadError> its non existant ;)
[19:53] <ReadError> i was just curious on average, or a range
[19:53] <Upu> mikestir - 1200g Hwoyee with ~ 550g with 3557L of gas gives 6.3m/s
[19:53] <mikestir> Upu: hmm yes just looked at the difference in volume between 5 m/s and 6.5 m/s. It's a lot!
[19:53] <Upu> yep
[19:53] <Upu> put the whole cylinder in and don't waste any blowing up party balloons before hand
[19:53] <mikestir> well I guess we'll aim to empty the cylinder and hope we don't land on manchester airport
[19:54] <Upu> 1200g should be fine
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[19:54] <Upu> mikestir you don't hope that you don't fly that if its anywhere near :)
[19:54] <Upu> is this for tomorrow ?
[19:54] <mikestir> wednesday
[19:54] <mikestir> yes I know I still need to do the flight doc
[19:54] <Upu> ok my suggestion is use the whole cylinder
[19:54] <Upu> predictions suggest you run them assuming 32km burst and 40km burst
[19:55] <Upu> check it doesn't land anywhere "airporty"
[19:55] <mikestir> ok that sounds like good advice
[19:55] <mikestir> short range is currently near macclesfield, which isn't too bad
[19:55] <mikestir> reasonably south of the airport
[19:55] <Upu> personally I run predictions at each end of the "scope" and on the predicted altitude
[19:55] <mikestir> longer range takes it further east towards the peaks
[19:55] <Upu> which means 26km (early burst) 32km (predicted) 40km (max attained)
[19:55] <Upu> for a 1200g
[19:56] <Upu> also unless run predictions assuming decent 5m/s and 10m/s
[19:56] <Upu> just in case parachute tangles and/or brings back balloon
[19:56] <mikestir> yes I understand that can be an issue with the hwoyee as well
[19:56] <Upu> you do not want to land on an airport, or even worse Bradford
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[19:57] <mikestir> doncaster looks more likely, although the winds seemed to have calmed down a bit today
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[19:57] <Paul-M6PFX> lo all
[19:58] <mikestir> we'll be flying an 868 MHz tracker as well, just to see how well it does
[19:58] <Upu> do you have an hourly running ?
[19:58] <Upu> hi Paul-M6PFX
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[19:58] <Upu> yeah I don't think I'm allowed to hoist up the 868Mhz antenna sorry
[19:58] <mikestir> no hourly. can I automate that somewhere?
[19:59] <Upu> indeed
[19:59] <Upu> PM
[19:59] <Willdude123> Does anyone else ever get that burning desire to play with an awesome API or library?
[19:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> ReadError, Have you seen the Wiki page ? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
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[20:00] <ReadError> Geoff-G8DHE: someone told me it was $400 worth of helium
[20:00] <ReadError> that seemed a bit high
[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> See the page at the bottom
[20:01] <ReadError> yea, seems much less there
[20:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> If your talking $ and not £ then not sure what the State side pricing is like!
[20:03] <ReadError> well most things in the states are cheaper ;)
[20:03] <ReadError> looks fun, unfortunately i dont think we have the same scene here tracker wise
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, how is recovery?
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[20:06] <Upu> coming along slowly thanks Lunar
[20:06] <Upu> going into work tomorrow
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear that
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[20:08] <LeoBodnar> mclane: maybe somebody closer will appear on the map tomorrow?
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[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> anthony: time for a short PM?
[20:09] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[20:09] <mclane> LeoBodnar: I dont know
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[20:11] <mfa298> ReadError: tracking networks to use can vary depending on where you are. In the US a lot of people use APRS (although that requires a HAM license). Gas costs will vary depending on what you're flying, small payloads may not need such a big balloon and not as much gas.
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[20:15] <enkidu> Willdude123: I had it. but I chosen WinAPI...
[20:16] <Willdude123> It annoys me so much
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[20:49] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: can you try GT again?
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> Nothing... enkidu
[20:51] <arko> oo i get my antenna today, gonna point it in the sky looking for B-11 and B12
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[20:51] <arko> i still have hope
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> lol we have plenty of that left
[20:53] <arko> i just want to be believe
[20:53] <arko> http://uncoolghoul.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/i_want_to_believe.jpg
[20:53] <arko> except photoshopped to one of the B-series
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[20:53] <enkidu> I will get antenna on roof maybe tomorrow
[20:54] <nats`> talking about antenna someone have information concerning the antenna he uses for UHF ?
[20:54] <enkidu> (actually I am near cable shaft just under mast right now)
[20:56] <arko> sups
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[21:00] <LeoBodnar> somebody suggested launching foil balloon sidewise so it floats like a saucer
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> I think Upu was going to
[21:01] <arko> HAHAHA
[21:01] <arko> yes!!!
[21:01] <arko> do this
[21:01] <arko> add LED's that turn on at night
[21:01] <enkidu> blinking of course
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> I might do it. I don't quite like this 9300m cruise level. Too cold and too close to airways
[21:02] <enkidu> go higher
[21:03] <arko> 8k seems best
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> Need new balloons then
[21:03] <enkidu> still airways
[21:03] <arko> any luck finding balloons that are non-conductive?
[21:03] <arko> i've been searching for something that can do super pressure :/ but no luck
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> dissolve aluminium
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> or microwave it
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> lighter too!
[21:04] <enkidu> ask red bull
[21:04] <nats`> arko putting fishnet around a latex balloon
[21:04] <arko> hahaha
[21:04] <arko> LeoBodnar: you're crazy!
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> thank you!
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> it passes as a compliment in my circles XD
[21:05] <arko> me too!
[21:06] <arko> it means you're actually cool
[21:06] <arko> at least within my circles as well :)
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[21:07] <LeoBodnar> Photoshop!
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> Wrong window
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> haha high five arko
[21:09] <arko> hahaha!
[21:09] Action: arko high fives back
[21:12] <WillTablet> Isn't it weird how UFO only defines alien craft now?
[21:12] <nats`> conspiracy fanboy
[21:12] <arko> eh
[21:12] <arko> within the public
[21:12] <nats`> Roger and Klaus prepare a world take over
[21:13] <WillTablet> I saw a plane, looked a bit like a grob, but it can't have been, they're grounded
[21:13] <WillTablet> Is it not therefore a ufo?
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> Grob means "coffin" in Russian.
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[21:13] <mfa298> or is it just that the people reporting ufo's are the paranoid people that think it is ufo's
[21:14] <mfa298> couldn't be government as they use black choppers
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> Casket for you US types
[21:14] Action: mfa298 gets tin foil hat
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> Dave Ike enters the chat
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> *Icke
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[21:19] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: battery engineer replied. Only Ni-Cd
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: What was the question?
[21:21] <enkidu> what will last long in balloon tracker being charged and discharged
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> We need a larger balloon for NiCd :D
[21:24] <enkidu> but for stratospheric floater we can use larger ones
[21:24] <enkidu> they will not collide with air traffic
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> I am waiting for netted latex floater experiment.
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[21:25] <Mik_WD8MNV> how large of a nicd?
[21:26] <enkidu> NiCd has low energy density
[21:27] <PA1SDB> Hi, I was QRT for a while. Is B-14 down ? Altitude graph shows flight level is only 2200 m...
[21:27] <Mik_WD8MNV> but only need one?
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[21:28] <enkidu> it is more convenient to use serial package
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> NiCd is 40 mWh/g, tracker needs about 400mWh per night so 10 grams probably
[21:28] <enkidu> wait...
[21:28] <enkidu> so single AA would do, but what about voltage?
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Step up probably x2
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[21:32] <enkidu> or two cells in series
[21:32] <mikestir> phew. dashboard page finished
[21:32] <mikestir> CSS is a pain
[21:34] <enkidu> CSS+IE is a pain
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[21:34] <mikestir> I haven't even tested it on IE
[21:34] <mikestir> well I tried it at work earlier and it was ok then
[21:34] <mikestir> but I have no windows pc to hand at home
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, still on?
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[22:56] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jennings-Ceramic-Vacuum-Variable-Capacitor-CSVF-500-7-5-12-500pf-7-5KV-W-Mounts-/151107233326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232eb1662e
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> WAcky
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[23:01] <enkidu> but... WHY?
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Why not?
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> At high voltage, you will need a very large plate spacing to manage 7,5kv
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> By using vacuum, you can make a much more compact unit
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> That's likely good for a few amps at 7.5kv
[23:02] <enkidu> insulation oil?
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Vacuum
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Oil has a dielectric effect, and is noticably lossy
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[23:05] <Laurenceb_> Erika Ann KØDD
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> lolling
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> pity about B-14
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[23:08] <enkidu> Laurenceb_: we have to wait for sunrise, it may reappear as B-10
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[23:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.alstom.com/Global/Transport/Resources/Documents/English%20AGV%20.pdf
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> ^interesting, brushless motors
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[00:00] --- Tue Oct 1 2013