highaltitude.log.20130925

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[02:02] <heathkid> hello everyone
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[06:32] <eroomde> arko: yo
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[06:34] <eroomde> 'we've come to crawley, just north of brighton,'
[06:34] <eroomde> geography according to london-based radio 4 correspondant
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[07:16] <arko> eroomde: yo yo
[07:17] <eroomde> yoyoyo
[07:17] <eroomde> all adjusted 1 wk later?
[07:17] <arko> yes, and missing the uk
[07:17] <arko> Odd ball me
[07:17] <arko> In the UK I miss the us, my mind can't make it up
[07:18] <arko> So BTW, just finished going through your talk and all the code line by line
[07:18] <arko> Very damn good
[07:18] <arko> I was a little too exhausted when it was going on live, now I have like 8 pages of notes and cleaned up code :p
[07:20] <eroomde> cool!
[07:20] <eroomde> yes it's definitely livecode
[07:20] <arko> Yep
[07:20] <arko> Heck it was still looking for sat 23
[07:20] <Darkside> haha
[07:20] <eroomde> lol
[07:20] <Darkside> coding live is pretty ballsy
[07:20] <arko> I was like, where's this damn sat
[07:20] <Darkside> i would have had a heap of it prepared
[07:21] <arko> Watched the video, sat 22
[07:21] <arko> Heh
[07:21] <arko> Darkside: eroomde actually pulled it off
[07:21] <eroomde> Darkside: i'm not much in a hurry to do it again
[07:21] <arko> Let the record show
[07:21] <Darkside> i bet
[07:21] <Darkside> what woudl have been more ballsy
[07:21] <Darkside> is capturing some RF data outside during the talk
[07:21] <Darkside> and working on that
[07:22] <eroomde> yes indeed
[07:22] <eroomde> but that would be mega demo effect
[07:22] <Darkside> yup
[07:22] <eroomde> and one of the demo gods would have struck me down
[07:22] <Darkside> haha
[07:23] <Darkside> we did a live demo of a HF digital voice modem
[07:23] <Darkside> with ah omebrew radio put together mostly on stage
[07:23] <Darkside> it worked
[07:23] <Darkside> we also did a balloon launch as a live demo at teh end of a talk
[07:23] <Darkside> that was fun
[07:23] <eroomde> i thought about it but worried that at some random bit in london there might be arm or multi path or something
[07:23] <arko> eroomde: http://www.imgur.com/W2J9JI6.jpeg
[07:24] <eroomde> this basic receiver is totally not cool with multipath
[07:24] <Darkside> heh
[07:24] <eroomde> nice arko!!!
[07:24] Action: arko needs to learn about multipath
[07:24] <arko> :)
[07:24] <Darkside> multipath is a bitch
[07:24] <arko> Can't be as bad as my exwife
[07:24] <Darkside> arko: combination of power, phase shift, and group delay
[07:25] <Darkside> you have the phase shift of the carrier
[07:25] Action: arko doesn't have an exwife but enjoys making those jokes
[07:25] <Darkside> and you have the difference in group delay along each path
[07:25] <Darkside> and they all interact causing really fun results
[07:25] <arko> Oh god why
[07:25] <Darkside> i've got multipath simulation in my HF simulator
[07:26] <arko> I shall read more in the morning when I'm not sleepy
[07:26] <Darkside> reasonably simple to implement
[07:26] <arko> After coffee of course
[07:26] <arko> Oh cool
[07:26] <Darkside> just difficult to predict the results of it from the raw input data
[07:26] <Darkside> not by eye anyway
[07:27] <Darkside> too much input data to be able to figure that out just by looking
[07:27] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/iVjEXNP.png
[07:27] <Darkside> the blue trace there is an approiximation of the receive signal strength, taking into account phase interference
[07:28] <Darkside> you can see how it kind of goes to shit around 420 seconds, when a second ray fades in
[07:28] <arko> Oh I see what this is
[07:28] <Darkside> two rays, about teh same path loss on each ray
[07:28] <Darkside> but with different (and constantly changing!) phase path lengths
[07:28] <Darkside> so they continually go in and out of phase with each other
[07:28] <Darkside> cancelling each other out
[07:28] <Darkside> hence: fading
[07:29] <arko> Ahhh
[07:29] <arko> How's this solved?
[07:29] <Darkside> wait
[07:29] <Darkside> i changd channels somehow
[07:29] <Darkside> argh
[07:30] <Darkside> hold on
[07:30] <arko> ????
[07:30] <Darkside> ok
[07:30] <Darkside> so hows it solved?
[07:30] <Darkside> it isn't, really
[07:30] <arko> Bummer :/
[07:30] <eroomde> with BAYESIANISM
[07:30] <Darkside> on HF you can gt a bit more signal by having cross-polarised antennas
[07:30] <Darkside> so you remove the loss from faraday rotation fading
[07:31] <Darkside> that gets you about 10db
[07:31] <Darkside> but at HF its a pain in the ass to implement
[07:31] <Darkside> biiiiig antennas
[07:31] <Darkside> apart from that, the main way to deal with it is FEC
[07:31] <Darkside> FEC FEC FEC
[07:31] <Darkside> time and frequency interleaving
[07:32] <Darkside> time interleaving for the flat fades, frequency interleaving for the frequency selective fads
[07:33] <arko> Neato, I'll need to read this again in the morning
[07:33] <arko> Sleepy time....
[07:33] <Darkside> night
[07:33] <arko> Zzzzz good night
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[07:50] <DutchMillbt> morning picking up some blips @434.501.88
[07:50] <Maxell> 3 second blips?
[07:51] <DutchMillbt> nope 1 sec interval
[07:51] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: booting up RevSpace tracking SDR
[07:51] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: :(
[07:51] <DutchMillbt> en liukt dat ?
[07:51] <DutchMillbt> lukt
[07:52] <Maxell> Now starting up SDR#
[07:54] <Maxell> Hmm
[07:55] <Maxell> No signals screaming "B-13!!!" here
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[07:56] <DutchMillbt> ... kinda qrm :(
[07:58] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: holylylylyl
[07:58] <Maxell> blips
[07:58] <Maxell> and suddnly
[07:58] <Maxell> larger blips
[07:58] <Maxell> like domex16
[07:58] <fsphil> domex doesn't sound like blips
[07:59] <DutchMillbt> radar scatter?
[07:59] <Maxell> no
[07:59] <Maxell> fsphil: more like "wider"
[08:00] <Maxell> freqency hopping :P
[08:00] <fsphil> ooooh
[08:00] <fsphil> how long did it last?
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[08:01] <Maxell> somewhat short
[08:02] <Maxell> would be pretty optimistic yeah
[08:02] <fsphil> if it was it you'll hear it again
[08:02] <fsphil> or the 3-second beeps
[08:05] <DutchMillbt> ..what the hell was that
[08:06] <DutchMillbt> Maxell ... local qrm indeed
[08:07] Nick change: HixWork -> Hix
[08:07] <DutchMillbt> oke back to qrv mode ;-)
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[08:16] <LZ1CLA> Here in Sofia, Bulgaria there is also very loud digital sounding QRM. It is right on the frequency of B13
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> http://www.edn.com/contenteetimes/documents/schweber/c0792/c0792-1_15.pdf
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> "The portion of that capacity that is unavailable due to increased resistance can be recovered by raising the top cutoff voltage during charge and lowering the bot- tom cutoff voltage during discharge, using IR (V = I * R) compensation (Figure 1.9)."
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> "The very same cell that has lost 10% of its capacity, in actuality may still have much of its original capacity; to access it, the charge cutoff voltage must be increased and the discharge cutoff must be decreased, to make up for the additional IR voltage drop due to its increased resistance."
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> I have been thinking exactly that yesterday when testing batteries in the freezer.
[08:19] <adamgreig> interesting
[08:19] <adamgreig> makes sense
[08:19] <LeoBodnar> But wasn't sure where in the electrochemical chain increase ESR sits
[08:19] <LeoBodnar> *increased
[08:20] <LeoBodnar> This is said in the context of age related capacity loss but I assume it applies to some extent to colder temperatures as well.
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[08:21] <LZ1CLA> hm, you have to be quite careful when increasing charge cutoff voltage, or you can end with nice home fire
[08:22] <Mik_WD8MNV> but up at altitude, all that would do is keep the battery warm : )
[08:22] <LZ1CLA> yeah :)
[08:22] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: maaaybe. not clear that the same electrochemical effect will be responsible for higher esr at low temperatures?
[08:22] <adamgreig> but yea, it could be. or the same technique could work in any event
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[08:22] <adamgreig> your freezer should be fairly good at containing a small lipo fire, test it out ;)
[08:23] <LeoBodnar> I have overcharged B-10 battery to 4.7v due to some hardware bugs
[08:23] <LeoBodnar> It still survived and worked for the whole night
[08:23] <adamgreig> did you figure out why it was doing that?
[08:25] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, ADC sampling was upsetting regulator sampling network
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[08:32] <LZ1CLA> We have idea to launch Balloon with crossband repeater to have some international repeater fun
[08:32] <LZ1CLA> we already have almost all the hardware except the balloon
[08:33] <LZ1CLA> So, any ideas will be welcome
[08:33] <LZ1CLA> maybe one domino EX transmitter will find its place onboard :)
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[09:00] <G0TDJ_AFK> Gooooooood Morning HABers :D
[09:00] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[09:01] <fsphil> morn
[09:01] <fsphil> dull grey wet morning
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, same here
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> We may get a last gasp of summer before the dullness really sets in
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[09:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> All quiet today then.
[09:11] <fsphil> NEEDS MORE CAPS
[09:11] <LeoBodnar> time of day greetings G0TDJ_Steve !
[09:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I got a nice one from Duxford the last time I was there... It's blue
[09:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Leo :D
[09:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I saw the notice on SpaceNear that B11/12/13 are all MIA
[09:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Are you planning B14?
[09:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> DOORBELL! - That'll be Sainsburys deliveries - Be Back in a Tick Guys
[09:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice 'n' quick
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[09:36] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: any test data yet?
[09:37] <M6GTG_nerdsville> journey into the wonder world of amateur radio stymied by a dodgy coax! lol
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[09:43] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, got 111mAh out of 150mAh LiPo at -16C..-21C
[09:44] <LeoBodnar> I think the key is to avoid current surges
[09:44] <LeoBodnar> Waking up GPS is a monster
[09:45] <adamgreig> moar capacitors
[09:45] Nick change: Guest87921 -> nick_
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> nice
[09:46] <fsphil> manyfarads
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[09:47] <LeoBodnar> BFC model
[09:47] <Herman-PB0AHX> GM all
[09:49] <Upu> morning
[09:50] <Herman-PB0AHX> any HAB today in the air ??
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[09:51] <Upu> nothing intentionally up
[09:51] <Upu> though do have a listen on 434.500 see if you can catch a 'B'
[09:51] <Herman-PB0AHX> then i go listening of i hearing someting from the B ballons
[09:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is there any chance that any of the 'B's could be over the UK?
[09:53] <Babs> Upu - heard you were off sick - hope you are getting better
[09:53] <Upu> hey Babs yeah getting better just doing a little work from home for the next few days
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[09:54] <Babs> good work.
[09:55] <LeoBodnar> Have some quality thinking time
[09:56] <M6GTG_nerdsville> Upu - nothing serious I hope, get well soon
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> That looks like sleep for those who don't understand
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[10:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> "to sleep perchance to dream...."
[10:04] <GMT> Hey, that's part of my sig!
[10:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Great minds GMT
[10:04] <GMT> it's also by some bloke who made cigars
[10:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> I don't smoke :-) It's just popped into my head when Leo mentioned sleep
[10:06] <GMT> it's from Hamlet (cigar ref; v.poor!), the "To be, or not to be" speech
[10:09] <charolastra> what's the difference betweenSTS-8 and STS-8N? will they be separte ballons?
[10:09] <gonzo_> or 'To B13'
[10:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/PHB-5R0V505-R/283-3520-ND/2770536
[10:10] <Laurenceb> there is stuff like that that might help
[10:10] <Laurenceb> but a bit heavy
[10:10] <Laurenceb> 7.5grams
[10:11] <GMT> that would nearly double the weight of Leo's payloads
[10:11] <Laurenceb> yeah
[10:11] <Laurenceb> all for an extra 3mAh lipo equivalent
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[10:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> I think I lost the connection....
[10:14] <fsphil> oh, HF dominoex launch
[10:14] <fsphil> that should be worth a go
[10:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Whens that fsphil ?
[10:14] <fsphil> saturday, weather permitting
[10:14] <fsphil> Polnad
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just found it on the group, cheers
[10:15] Nick change: darkstar-20011 -> darkstar-2001
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yipee, a Morse ID :D
[10:16] <GMT> where, what id?
[10:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> On the Google Group - Launch annoucement, Gliwice, Polnad sat, 28 sep 2013 9:00 UTC
[10:16] <GMT> okay, I will look at that later
[10:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> That should be fun. - APRS tracker 300 mW SP9UOB-11 QRG 144.800 MHz - DominoEX11 tracker on HF 1Watt output QRG 21.401 MHz USB (Dial freq 21.400 MHz) transmission every minute (disabled during WSPR transmission) - CW (Morse) id - callsign, locator and altitude every 5 minutes - WSPR on 21.096100 MHz - two transmissions (6 digit locator) every 12 minutes - ATV on 23 cm and 6 cm
[10:17] <fsphil> aaah ATV would be nice to have :)
[10:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, different
[10:18] <GMT> covering almost all the bases there!
[10:18] <Mik_WD8MNV> might hear the 21.4 on the U of Twente rcvr
[10:19] <mfa298> I need to try some range tests for streaming over wifi. I've done some streaming with an adhoc network at home which seems to work.
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[10:19] <M6GTG_nerdsville> Will be at the hamfest on Saturday so will miss those flights :-(
[10:20] <Mik_WD8MNV> someone @ the hamfest should tune those in
[10:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, Go to the Yaesu/Kenwood/Icom stads and ask ;-)
[10:21] <mfa298> there's often a few people with radios on tuned into something random at the ones I've been to.
[10:21] <M6GTG_nerdsville> looking at buying some gear.. "Could you demonstrate this rig... "
[10:22] <Mik_WD8MNV> might catch their attention of you say that it's live from a balloon
[10:23] <M6GTG_nerdsville> I've been the last few years, would be a pretty good demo for the SDR lot that are there..
[10:24] <Mik_WD8MNV> if it's in the UK there should be a funcube dongle around somewhere
[10:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can you get in touch with them and give them a heads up?
[10:25] <M6GTG_nerdsville> It's the National Hamfest at Newark-on-Trent, UK
[10:25] <M6GTG_nerdsville> Will do Steve
[10:25] <Mik_WD8MNV> put a B-xx payload onto the rafters on a foil balloon : )
[10:26] <M6GTG_nerdsville> http://www.nationalhamfest.org.uk/
[10:27] <M6GTG_nerdsville> only a couple of miles from QTH
[10:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice!
[10:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Say Hello to Dave on the Kenwood stand if he's there. Tell him I'm enjoying the TS-480 :-)
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[11:00] <Hix> BBC planning to axe the Sky at Night. There is an online petition to try and dissuade them, figured there wouild be a few proponents on here. http://goo.gl/IHKo31
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[11:04] <Laurenceb> why did i know that was coming
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[11:07] <fsphil> still can't find anywhere the bbc have said that Hix
[11:07] <fsphil> that said, I've signed it anyway
[11:08] <Babs> the daily mail said it and its on the internet. its definitely true.
[11:08] <Babs> the daily mail and the internet never lie
[11:08] <fsphil> twitter wouldn't lie!!1
[11:09] <Babs> question: when you get say commercially available circuit boards that are stacked up, what are the tubes that sit with a screw running through it that effectively act as spacers?
[11:09] <Babs> called?
[11:09] <Laurenceb> http://mikesmods.com/mm-wp/?p=189
[11:09] <Babs> i've tried screw sleeves, everything, do they have a technical widget name that i just don't know?
[11:10] <M6GTG_nerdsville> stand offs?
[11:10] <fsphil> spacer is pretty much it I think
[11:10] <Laurenceb> oh shit its happened
[11:10] Nick change: Laurenceb -> SteveBong
[11:11] <SteveBong> "Become a part of Catalyst Nottingham"
[11:11] <Babs> you guys are the bomb http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=16413321
[11:11] <Babs> thanks
[11:12] <fsphil> I've got some metal ones
[11:12] <SteveBong> "An invitation to engage in the "research cafe" sandpit"
[11:12] <SteveBong> hehe sandpit
[11:13] <Babs> i reckon if i can get some ones of various sizes then i can stack them up to get any length ones i want, rather than trying to slice off a 3mm bit of plastic fsphil
[11:13] <fsphil> yea good plan
[11:13] <M6GTG_nerdsville> sandpits? Isn't that where all the other kids would have a wee? ;-)
[11:14] <SteveBong> http://www.theregister.co.uk/Author/2497/
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[11:27] <PE9PE-Rob> Goedemiddag René
[11:42] Nick change: SteveBong -> Laurenceb
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[11:43] <PE9PE-Rob> Laurence i guess your mother did not like the steve Bong name :)
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> Steve Bong - an incubator.
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> Gimme your egss
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> heh -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/carnivillain/9621749653/in/photostream/
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> neat
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Funky long exposure
[12:31] <Hix> Babs http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/series.aspx?id=6&category=210
[12:31] <Hix> arse, too late, he's gone
[12:33] <Laurenceb> rofl
[12:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/carnivillain/9619681874/in/photostream/
[12:37] <Laurenceb> not at all weird
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I would be extremely worried if that structure was not actually designed for that
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> yes - geodesic domes are strong for their weight
[12:40] <adamgreig> it's burning man
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[12:43] <LeoBodnar> 1000 re-charge cycles at 0.1 C = 2+ years
[12:48] <fsphil> nice
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> Which means nobody really tested them in this mode
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[12:55] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: what?
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: context?
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[13:01] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: word from the guys where I got the batteries from (for free): "they are old and only 160mAh" Duh!
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> 1k cycles test at 0.1C is projected/estimated data
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[13:34] <Laurenceb> interesting stuff
[13:34] Action: Laurenceb has been filing down pneumatic connectors all morning
[13:35] <Laurenceb> the CNC milling cost £2k - cant redo it
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[13:38] <Laurenceb> now i can't test the finished product as some tard decided to do the GUI in simulink and use an undocumented binary protocol
[13:38] <Laurenceb> then they left....
[13:39] <adamgreig> lol
[13:41] <Laurenceb> but not before they redesigned the enclosure without letting anyone know
[13:42] <Laurenceb> now when the controls are facing you the labels are upside down
[13:42] <LeoBodnar> Wait a few years - they might get booted from the new place and come back
[13:42] <LeoBodnar> Tell customers it has been originally designed for space stations
[13:43] <gonzo_> or like spirit bottles for optics
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was going to say dx.com can fix anything - but they don't seem to stock those reversing glasses
[13:46] <Laurenceb> ill glue a new label panel ontop of the box
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[13:48] <gonzo_> a lable saying that you should only operate it when drunk
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[15:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.airships.net/lz127-graf-zeppelin/history
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[15:14] <WillTablet> Hi
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[15:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Anybody had expereince with the huawei 586 MiFi units ? My old E5830 has just failed and need to replace it :-(
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[15:31] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: want
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[15:33] Action: Laurenceb is onto his next project
[15:33] <Laurenceb> assembling these: http://i.imgur.com/bfJfytc.jpg
[15:40] <Laurenceb> mini stm32 based datalogger
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[15:44] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) joined #highaltitude.
[15:48] <SP3OSJ> welcome all the Lords and the King (Leo)
[15:48] <enkidu> hello
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[15:49] <SP3OSJ> Your Majesty
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[15:51] <SP3OSJ> sorry I watch the movie 24hrs. Live Henryk VIII Tudor
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[15:53] <SP3OSJ> http://s10.postimg.org/y6u1kskw9/osj.jpg
[15:53] <SP3OSJ> My dog wants to fly a balloon into space
[15:54] <enkidu> sa many trackers, so little time...
[15:56] <SP3OSJ> I now fly every week (starting Saturday) It's all to fly balloons My antenna j-pole 437.700Mhz
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[15:58] <x-f> SP3OSJ, have you launched any high altitude balloons yet?
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[17:13] <eroomde> screens
[17:13] <eroomde> i hate them
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[17:13] <eroomde> lost the ability to stare at screens now for pcb design, all the lines blur
[17:13] <eroomde> thus irc time
[17:14] <eroomde> any flights today?
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[17:16] <arko> i had to move my office outside today
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Not as far as I'm aware
[17:17] <arko> people are tripping out and joining me for coffee
[17:17] <arko> i love it
[17:17] <arko> "how did you? what? why are you outside?"
[17:17] <arko> "care for some coffee?"
[17:17] <arko> "yes"
[17:17] <arko> this is a beautiful day
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> VEry quiet - 200 lines or so since morning - including join/part
[17:17] <arko> although the screen outside is hard to see
[17:18] <eroomde> why *are* you outside?
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[17:18] <arko> its really nice
[17:18] <arko> like
[17:18] <arko> really nice
[17:19] <arko> 25C, clear skys, air temp is perfect, the fire that was going on is done and no more smell
[17:19] <arko> so i got fed up being indoors and took the power and cat6 outside
[17:19] <arko> and coffee
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[17:23] <fsphil> I think if I did move outside I'd create a fire hazard
[17:23] <arko> really?
[17:23] <fsphil> it's not quite raining but all the electronics would get damp
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[17:24] <arko> haha
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[17:26] <fsphil> getting dark in the mornings now too. I do like winter but getting up and coming home in the dark is a bit depressing
[17:27] <arko> yeah, i get that when the time change happens :/
[17:27] <arko> i want to change my work hours so i can still get sunlight
[17:27] <fsphil> it's still warm though. this time last year there was some snow about
[17:27] <arko> oh wow
[17:27] <fsphil> yea I'd rather start early and get out when there's still some daylight
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[17:27] <arko> yeah
[17:28] <bertrik> I'd prefer summer time all year round
[17:28] <bertrik> barely conscious in the early morning anyway
[17:29] <fsphil> actually there was no snow this time last year, it was october
[17:30] <arko> that makes more sense
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[17:32] <x-f> there were a few reports of snowing over here today :(
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[17:34] Nick change: Gadget-Mac_ -> Gadget-Mac
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[18:04] <enkidu> winter is coming. time for special preparations
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[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:39] <enkidu> hi
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[18:58] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: do you know some good online transistor catalogue? I need to find combination of current, power dissipation, package and few more
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> farnell
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> It's horrible but it works
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> WHat are you looking for?
[19:00] <enkidu> smt replacement of ss8050c
[19:01] <enkidu> also with heatsink pad
[19:02] <enkidu> MJD31CG seems to be overkill - found in tme
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> So Vcbmax=40V Icmax=1.5A Ft 100MHz
[19:02] <enkidu> and Pc 2W or more
[19:02] <enkidu> BDP947 looks nice also
[19:04] <enkidu> I am going to build CCFL spectrum analyser without any uC, especially without arduino
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[19:05] <LeoBodnar> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=204244+731+502+110204108+110106268+110030383+110030214+110109738+110015165+110048089+110075057+110007716+110074949+110114042+110055525+110007704+110007735+110077636+110084797+110045903+110103759+110067889+110022626+110108049+110007709+110073917+110090637+110037580+110037599+110082473+110137574+110137584+110158898+110173965+110148387+110316579+110185992+110137577&No=0&getResults=tr
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> woah
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> huge url
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> You get my full support just for that enkidu
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> trannies
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> I don't know what to do for short urls
[19:06] <enkidu> thanks :)
[19:06] <enkidu> farnell seems to have more things than tme
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> mouser and digikey work as well
[19:08] <enkidu> actually I want to look for it at local suppliers, but thanks anyway
[19:09] <enkidu> most expensive part will be inverters
[19:09] <enkidu> but I will get them too
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[19:10] <LeoBodnar> Transformers, switches, connectors! Money suckers.
[19:11] <enkidu> indeed :) but trafos ale not very expensive for ccfls
[19:11] <Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/24/oracle_openworld_walkout/
[19:11] <Laurenceb__> talking of money suckers
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> Oracle
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> shivering memories
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[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Board looks good G0TDJ_Steve, time to order I think!
[19:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> chrisstubbs: Coolio - Cheers :-) You gonna be on later?
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> Yeah should be
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> the stackable idea is cool, but you have a lot of failure points on all those contacts
[19:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good oh - Catch you then :-)
[19:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[19:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> ..
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> I mean potential mechanical faliures, not failures with the board design
[19:24] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:25] <chrisstubbs> Hi jcoxon
[19:28] <mfa298> hmmm, Oracle, that well known swearword across the IT industry.
[19:30] <enkidu> stackable design is good for adressable buses
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[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> evening LeoBodnar and chrisstubbs
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> evening Lunar_Lander
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> organic
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[19:38] <chrisstubbs> Howdy Lunar_Lander
[19:39] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, instead of pips you could send hellschreiber
[19:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:40] Action: jcoxon is always keen for hellschreiber
[19:40] <Upu> does need the manual touch
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> lol, get proper Siemens receiver then :D
[19:40] <jcoxon> but these are just pips
[19:42] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> good evening Sven
[19:43] <Upu> Day 27 nothing heard on 434.500 :)
[19:43] <Upu> launch another one Leo
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[19:43] <LeoBodnar> bends? :D
[19:44] <Upu> I do check 3-4 times a day
[19:44] <Upu> mainly as I don't have much else to do atm :)
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> :D
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[19:45] <LeoBodnar> Need to push ahead with B-14. Waiting for good LiPos
[19:45] <Upu> getting them from somewhere else ?
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> I will get the same as was on B-11
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> evening Upu
[19:46] <Upu> evening Lunar
[19:46] <Upu> yeah sounds like a plan
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[19:46] <Upu> going H2 or sticking with He for the moment ?
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> He for the time being
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, saw that BMP180 got a different pinout than BMP085
[19:47] <Upu> yep Lunar it has
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I'll try to draw a BMP180 in eagle
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> seems like there is no library online yet
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[19:51] <Upu> you could make one :)
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> Barosensor?
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:55] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: http://www2.dupont.com/Kapton/en_US/assets/downloads/pdf/summaryofprop.pdf
[19:55] <Laurenceb__> page 20
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> Kapton, cool
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> we use that too currently
[19:56] <Laurenceb__> should get approaching twice the flight time with H2
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[20:02] <LeoBodnar> Always a tickle that H2 is less permeable than He2
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[20:04] <Laurenceb__> its not He2
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> its a noble gas
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> so the H2 molecule is considerably larger
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[20:05] <DL7AD> does anyone know something about SP3OSJ's balloon?
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[20:06] <DL7AD> Laurenceb_ and its much cheaper. i want to try to get H2 directly filled into my balloon from my dealer...
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[20:08] <chrisstubbs> DL7AD, I know he is trying out a GPS odometer thing in the code
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> (which i guess is what road km is)
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_Lander: have you created your own parts in Eagle?
[20:11] <enkidu> H2 is easier permeable through metals
[20:11] <enkidu> especially iron
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, actually I once did one
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> a HIH-6121 humidity sensor footprint
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> used the Sparkfun EAGLE tutorial
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> then BMP180 should be reasonably simple
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> Or this? http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=3207
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> cool thanks :)
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[20:27] <enkidu> time to move my stuff to temporary place
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> evening daveake
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, that is ideal
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> only have to mod it, make the pads longer for better soldering
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> can do that
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:50] <jcoxon> ping Upu
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[21:05] <enkidu> Lunar_Lander: actually you just have to keep thermal padding. If you use solder paste it is very easy to do this
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> flux and then paste?
[21:06] <enkidu> special no-clean paste
[21:06] <enkidu> contains both flux and tin
[21:06] <enkidu> or narrow bit and 0.3mm tin
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:10] <enkidu> just use active flux on pads and tin will flow. Eagle has very large pads
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> but don't you need hot air for solder paste?
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:11] <enkidu> no, pad will conduct heat
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah, just apply the iron?
[21:12] <enkidu> yep
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:13] <enkidu> it works really good. Also, if you have PCB tinned with HAL, you can solder things using just flux - pad has enough of solder
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for the stupid questions, I only used normal solder so far
[21:14] <enkidu> if it will not be enougd - 0.3 mm tin
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[21:14] <Maxell> enkidu: how does H2 hold up in floaters?
[21:14] <enkidu> I was working in PCB assembly service point
[21:14] <Maxell> The fact it can penatrate trough iron is not *all*
[21:14] <Maxell> that bad
[21:15] <enkidu> achually H2 should behave very good. Havent floated anything yet however
[21:15] <Laurenceb__> http://www.cargolifter.com/products-services/aircrane/
[21:15] <Laurenceb__> genius
[21:16] <Upu> ping jcoxon
[21:16] <Maxell> Leo should doooo eeet
[21:16] <enkidu> nice way of mast assembly
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> enkidu, yeah
[21:16] <jcoxon> Upu, you got any radiomertix rx'ers in stock?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> so paste and then put the sensor on the paste and then the iron?
[21:17] <enkidu> Lunar_Lander: yes, it will work for sure
[21:17] <enkidu> I have to put 30m tall mast on a 40m building
[21:18] <enkidu> this seems nice solution
[21:23] <enkidu> http://skylifter.com.au/
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> thanks enkidu
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[22:52] <Laurenceb__> the americas cup boats are insane
[22:52] <Laurenceb__> i didnt realise anyone had even made a sailing hydrofoil
[22:52] <Laurenceb__> mental
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: Diddn't you see that link to one-man ones I posted a while back?
[22:54] <Laurenceb__> nope
[22:55] <Laurenceb__> i was idly wondering... racing sail hydrofoil, that would be cool
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[22:55] <Laurenceb__> i dont exactly follow yachting :P
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW_UfYGO3Kg
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[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Funkily - the aerodynamic resistance about equals the hydrodynamic
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> And you could actually get notable performance benefits with some sort of capsule
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> ah neat
[22:57] <Laurenceb__> or a fully solid wing as the "sail"
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> That too - but then weight issues arise
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> Some means of putting the human prone - and them being able to still do weight shift and sail control would have major benefits
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> but that's majorly mechanically tricky
[22:58] <Laurenceb__> hahah the top comment
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.moth-sailing.org/download/CSYSPaperFeb09.pdf - neat paper on them
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> The L/D figures for the foils look quite good
[23:00] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[23:00] Action: SpeedEvil has managed to order two wrong processors for his first desktop system in a decade.
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Part numbers are confusing.
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> I just found my second-last desktop.
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> It has an ISA card in it.
[23:01] <enkidu> I remember my PC had AMR slot...
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[23:03] <SpeedEvil> I'm now getting an I3-4130
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> yay
[23:03] <enkidu> foreign students arrived *sigh(
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[23:06] <TATA> Have there ever been tests using higher bandwidth radio's?
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[23:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:08] <TATA> What is acheivable?
[23:08] <TATA> I estimated a few mbps for european regulations
[23:08] <TATA> (HAM may not be used airborne here)
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> TThere is a major issue
[23:09] <TATA> so limited to 10mW at 868Mhz, 434MHz and 10mW at 2.4GHz (100mW if it fits the definition of broadband data network)
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> What can you achieve at 500km range
[23:09] <TATA> Yes
[23:09] <TATA> I know
[23:09] <TATA> But you have perfect LoS
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes
[23:10] <TATA> Ok, the path loss seems quite high.
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> But 500km range - and local interference
[23:10] <TATA> You are right
[23:11] <enkidu> 2.4 is worst for long range, as it is absorbed by water vapor
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[23:14] <TATA> enkidu: is it?
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[23:15] <enkidu> it is band used by microwave ovens
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: 2.4ghz is not used because it's stronlgy absorbed by water.
[23:15] <TATA> Yes, because it is an ISM band
[23:15] <TATA> 900MHz is also used for microwaves
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> That's not how microwave ovens work
[23:16] <TATA> and 2.4GHz is used for ship radar
[23:16] <TATA> to penetrate rain
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 26 2013