highaltitude.log.20130922

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[00:11] <DL7AD> could someone fix the map?
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[00:15] <fsphil> this is moving slower than I expected :)
[00:15] <DL7AD> fsphil could you fix the map?
[00:17] <fsphil> oh wow look at all the stations
[00:17] <fsphil> DL7AD: a particular payload or just clear 'em out?
[00:17] <LeoBodnar> another floater oO :D
[00:17] <adamgreig> wow, all the stations.
[00:17] <LeoBodnar> B-13 has looped back again
[00:17] <adamgreig> so many
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[00:18] <fsphil> and in france too
[00:18] <LeoBodnar> Balloonza!
[00:18] <fsphil> I've never seen so many en francais
[00:18] <DL7AD_> fsphil no the balloon is acually behind its actual position
[00:18] <adamgreig> rolling out the next dl-fldigi upgrade is going to be a nightmare :P
[00:18] <adamgreig> glad we got the current one working entirely on the new servers before this, hah
[00:18] <adamgreig> trying to do the rjharrison migration now would be entertaining
[00:18] <fsphil> ooch
[00:18] <fsphil> yea
[00:18] <fsphil> to be honest his server would have melted a while back :)
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[00:19] <fsphil> I don't see that DL7AD_
[00:19] <fsphil> oh wait I do
[00:19] <fsphil> one sec
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[00:20] <LeoBodnar> I think SP3OSJ did past midnight launch because of this midnight loop problem.
[00:20] <DL7AD> fsphil yes i can. zoom in! ;)
[00:20] <fsphil> yea, refresh now
[00:21] <SP3OSJ> Leo Bingo!
[00:22] <fsphil> ok refreshing isn't helping. but it's fixed in the db, it'll update eventually
[00:22] <fsphil> what's up with SP9UOB weird track?
[00:24] <LeoBodnar> I think it's GPS conversion code. It goes 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 2.9 2.0 2.1 etc
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[00:31] <DL7AD> for which time can the battery give SP9UOB give life?
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[00:49] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: Tom said 26 hours http://sp7pki.iq24.pl/default.asp?grupa=75798&temat=346700
[00:50] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar okay what time do we have left?
[00:51] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: B-13 is at 2.74V :P thats too low. you said 3 ours ago that it will fail in one hour :D
[00:52] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB has been launched at 0800 UTC so approaching 17 hours now
[00:53] <LeoBodnar> Sorry I lied :)
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[00:53] <DL7AD> :D
[00:53] <LeoBodnar> It seems to flatten out and then dive again. It's GPS acquiring some useless satellite data instead of sleeping
[00:54] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar i was thinking about telling the russian guys that a balloon will come. but the battery will be empty then
[00:56] <LeoBodnar> We need to ask Tomek what is expected life span
[00:56] <LeoBodnar> And then we have SP3OSJ coming up
[00:58] <DL7AD> SP3OSJ is rising
[00:59] <DL7AD> 10...9...8....7....6 we hav main lift start 5..4..3...2...1... and lift off for SP3OSJ .... experiencing near space for the next weeks coming....
[01:00] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I think near space should start at 1000m
[01:01] <LeoBodnar> We have EA5CV
[01:02] <DL7AD> yes in this direction the mountains are not that high
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[01:18] <LeoBodnar> .
[01:19] <DL7AD> .
[01:21] <LeoBodnar> OK, good night :)
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[01:50] <DL7AD> good night
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[02:00] <ea5cv> B-13 copied at 00:51. Then lost; just some tones ear some periods. Looks batery too low. Sorry, 73 and GL
[02:07] <ea5cv> On the sunrise B-13 will be out of my range :-( Aniway!, i will be listening. 73!
[02:10] <adamgreig> ea5cv: 00:51 what timezone?
[02:11] <adamgreig> (and thanks for listening!)
[02:11] <ea5cv> adamgreig> UTC time
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[02:36] Nick change: plantain_ -> plantain
[03:13] <heathkid> what kind of batteries is ZINOO2 flying??? still at 12.4V?
[03:23] <Maxell> didn't they picked it up already?
[03:24] <heathkid> I don't know
[03:24] <heathkid> unless spacenear isn't updated...
[03:24] <Maxell> Time: 2013-09-21 13:47:09
[03:24] <heathkid> ah
[03:24] <Maxell> yeah, thats a while ago
[03:25] <Maxell> Something broke iirc
[03:25] <heathkid> makes sense... but why such a high battery voltage to begin with?
[03:27] <Maxell> heathkid: 15:52:02 < x-f> hmm, now its signal just faded out and dissappeared, it's not here and not at my home station (40 km away)
[03:27] <Maxell> 15:00:00 Amsterdam time
[03:28] <Maxell> so thats 5 minutes after breaking down
[03:28] <Maxell> No idea
[03:33] <heathkid> hmm
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[05:15] <x-f> heathkid, Maxell, looking at the graphs for Zinoo2, it appears that GPS lost lock after the burst, switched to 2D fix (3 sats) and that's why it kept reporting the max altitude, while position was updating, so actually i saw it comming down and going behind the horizon as usually - http://i.imgur.com/xdOoHU5.png
[05:21] <craag> At least it kept reporting position - now I think about it, my code ignores anything but a 3D fix...
[05:24] <x-f> "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself." (Eleanor Roosevelt)
[05:24] <x-f> :)
[05:24] <x-f> good morning, craag
[05:25] <craag> nice quote
[05:25] <craag> and good morning! still dark here..
[05:31] <heathkid> thanks x-f
[05:31] <heathkid> that's explains it
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[06:13] <Upu> morning
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[06:17] <F1VJQ> Good morning balloonatics!
[06:20] <Upu> morning :)
[06:24] <heathkid> hello Upu
[06:25] <Upu> hey heathkid
[06:25] <heathkid> I need some of your stuff... :)
[06:25] <heathkid> and helium
[06:25] <heathkid> lol
[06:26] <heathkid> have you ever launched using a Li-Ion battery?
[06:28] <heathkid> using a single 14500 Li-Ion I'm getting very good results (on the ground)
[06:28] <heathkid> lighter weight than a standard AA battery
[06:28] <Upu> no but they should work
[06:28] <Upu> but don't try recharge in the air
[06:28] <Upu> at least below 0
[06:28] <Upu> capacity is lower than though
[06:28] <heathkid> will the payload ever see 0C?
[06:29] <Upu> AA energizer is 3000mAH
[06:29] <heathkid> yes... only about 800mAh
[06:29] <Upu> so mAH per g the Energizer wins by miles
[06:29] <heathkid> but higher voltage makes the booste converter happier when trying to get 5V for the HX-1
[06:29] <Upu> indeed
[06:29] <Upu> I always run 2 cells when using 5V step up
[06:30] <heathkid> we'll see how this test goes
[06:30] <Upu> and yes
[06:30] <heathkid> so far... I could have done a 600g balloon w/ <1kg payload FAST ascent to burst and still have plenty of volts left for finding it...
[06:30] <Upu> over night payload will see sub 0'c I suspect
[06:31] <heathkid> strapped to the HX-1?
[06:31] <heathkid> it's warm...
[06:31] <heathkid> TX once per minute
[06:31] <heathkid> and I plan on launching in the daytime...
[06:32] <Upu> ok
[06:32] <heathkid> no floaters just yet
[06:33] <heathkid> and by FAST ascent to burst I mean less than 3 hours to >100k ft. and back on the ground
[06:33] <heathkid> and includes some recovery time too
[06:34] <heathkid> it still shocks me how FAST it'll descend from that altitude
[06:34] <heathkid> > MACH
[06:34] <heathkid> poor parachute
[06:34] <heathkid> I'm surprised they work
[06:34] <adamgreig> the air building up slowly helps matters
[06:35] <adamgreig> plus they're predeployed
[06:35] <heathkid> true
[06:35] <adamgreig> not sure it is >mach either
[06:35] <adamgreig> at most maybe 60m/s?
[06:35] <heathkid> heh
[06:35] <adamgreig> not seen anything even approach >mach
[06:35] <adamgreig> well. except.
[06:35] <adamgreig> but yea, HAB payloads, nope.
[06:35] <adamgreig> supersonic parachutes are apparently a world of hurt :p
[06:36] <heathkid> they don't have enough air to "inflate" while still at supersonic speeds
[06:36] <heathkid> but they are supersonic after burst
[06:36] <adamgreig> well you tend to deploy them into atmo with supersonic chutes aiui
[06:36] <adamgreig> your hab payloads won't be supersonic
[06:37] <adamgreig> unless they're like, shaped like a missile
[06:37] <adamgreig> and aerodynamically stable
[06:37] <adamgreig> which would be a poor design choice :p
[06:37] <heathkid> I'm no expert... but think about that
[06:37] <adamgreig> the air density increasing slowly lets the parachute inflate slowly, so there's much less of a jerk
[06:38] <heathkid> very little air... yes it increases... but at burst >100k ft...
[06:38] <heathkid> it'll go supersonic
[06:38] <adamgreig> why?
[06:38] <adamgreig> I mean are you just guessing or have you done some calcs?
[06:38] <heathkid> nothing to slow it down and I've done several calculations and seen it
[06:39] <adamgreig> hmm
[06:39] <heathkid> when does the air have enough drag to start slowing down the payload?
[06:39] <adamgreig> the lowest it gets is like 290m/s at 11km
[06:39] <adamgreig> for speed of sound, I mean
[06:39] <adamgreig> it changes with air density but not below 290m/s or so
[06:39] <heathkid> right
[06:40] <adamgreig> but like
[06:40] <heathkid> anything should drop from 100k ft. to about 30k ft. in about 30 seconds... then start slowing down... right?
[06:41] <adamgreig> well let's see
[06:41] <adamgreig> HABE flew this weekend
[06:41] <adamgreig> got to 34038m which is 111kft
[06:41] <adamgreig> began to descend
[06:41] <adamgreig> hmm, let me quickly compute and chart the descent speed
[06:42] <heathkid> take your time... I have to take my dog out... brb
[06:53] <heathkid> back (but not for long)
[06:53] <adamgreig> made your chart ;)
[06:53] <heathkid> :)
[06:54] <adamgreig> https://randomskk.net/u/habe.png
[06:54] <adamgreig> green is altitude
[06:54] <adamgreig> blue is rate of ascent/descent
[06:54] <adamgreig> the fastest it gets is -68m/s or so
[06:54] <adamgreig> i.e., about mach 0.2
[06:54] <heathkid> hmm
[06:54] <adamgreig> which doesn't surprise me at all
[06:54] <adamgreig> that's about the same speed every hab payload gets to
[06:55] <adamgreig> (and I've seen a few :P)
[06:55] <adamgreig> the atmosphere is not all that thin, and they tumble, and there is a parachute which does start to do things
[06:55] <heathkid> :) I"m sure you have
[06:55] <heathkid> I haven't
[06:55] <adamgreig> I mean it's still blisteringly fast
[06:55] <adamgreig> but if you want supersonic it's gonna take a bit more
[06:55] <adamgreig> for instance
[06:55] <heathkid> yeah... -68m/s isn't slow!
[06:55] <adamgreig> http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/9823026913/
[06:55] <adamgreig> see the big red/orange thing in the middle
[06:56] <adamgreig> dropping that upside down from a HAB does the trick
[06:56] <heathkid> I'll look at it tomorrow... I have to get some sleep...
[06:56] <heathkid> almost 3 AM here
[06:56] <heathkid> more tomorrow?
[06:57] <adamgreig> the pic is quite fun. but basically HAB payloads don't need to worry about supersonic parachute design :P
[06:57] <heathkid> good! :)
[06:57] <heathkid> I hadn't planned on it...
[06:57] <heathkid> just sorta hoping it "just worked"
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[07:17] <eroomde> death or just out of range?
[07:19] <adamgreig> I'm sorry?
[07:19] <adamgreig> oh
[07:19] <adamgreig> not sure
[07:19] <adamgreig> probs death overnight
[07:19] <adamgreig> lipo got way undervolted
[07:19] <adamgreig> might recover with sun
[07:19] <adamgreig> aiui
[07:19] <adamgreig> like b-12
[07:20] <eroomde> such is liff
[07:20] <eroomde> i like the noise of sunday worship on here in the kitchen
[07:20] <eroomde> on radio 4
[07:20] <adamgreig> you missed someone asking about how hab parachutes manage to work in the supersonic descent regime between 100kft and 30kft
[07:20] <eroomde> still won't listen to the archers
[07:21] <eroomde> ah, the old supersonic descent regime
[07:21] <adamgreig> i was up at 7, toasted a few slices of the fresh sourdough loaf, had poached eggs in the garden
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[07:21] <adamgreig> sunday mornings are very quiet
[07:21] <eroomde> sourdough from the market for me...
[07:21] <eroomde> and black coffee
[07:21] <adamgreig> probably better - i tried using the bread mould again to shape a loaf, and it shaped great but the crust where it was in the mould is v poor
[07:21] <adamgreig> not convinced on moulds at all
[07:22] <eroomde> odd
[07:22] <adamgreig> the 4 buns I made at the same time came out very nicely though, frozen those for lunch during the week
[07:22] <eroomde> lots of flour?
[07:22] <adamgreig> hmm
[07:22] <adamgreig> the first time, heaps and heaps of flour, but it all stuck to the mould and didn't make a crust at all, just soft bread to the outside
[07:22] <adamgreig> this time, baking sheet inside, but no flour inside
[07:22] <adamgreig> maybe I need baking sheet + flour
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[07:23] <adamgreig> the part on the top forms a lovely crust, typically
[07:23] <M6GTG_nerdsville> morning all
[07:23] <adamgreig> morning
[07:23] <adamgreig> eroomde: just converting my old wordpress blog over to a static generator (as is the rage), fixing up image links, there's like a hundred fun little pet projects I did before uni, then a total absence of anything after 2009
[07:23] <adamgreig> so sad
[07:24] <adamgreig> need to write up more of what I do manage to do
[07:24] <eroomde> you got cammed
[07:24] <adamgreig> yup
[07:24] <adamgreig> good n hard
[07:24] <M6GTG_nerdsville> see XABEN postponed till tomorrow, is Anthony's launch still going ahead?
[07:26] <daveake> You mean Ugi not Upu ?
[07:26] <M6GTG_nerdsville> yes hungover! sorry not anthony's upi's
[07:27] <eroomde> i can't see anthony launching for a bit
[07:27] <eroomde> baddum tish
[07:27] <daveake> lol
[07:27] <M6GTG_nerdsville> blurred vision saw a three letter word starting in U..
[07:27] Action: daveake tries not to make a joke involving eyes and sharp sticks
[07:28] <daveake> Reminds me I need to run predictions to see if I can launch next weekend
[07:28] <M6GTG_nerdsville> back in the UK now Dave? Congrats on last weeks Lohan flights
[07:28] <daveake> Yes back home#
[07:29] <daveake> Back to wind and cold and poor predictions and having to get notams
[07:29] <eroomde> http://www.digipeer.de/index.php?media=DMA_FA_014_03022&size=3
[07:29] <eroomde> v2 turbopump
[07:30] <eroomde> all of the v2
[07:30] <eroomde> http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.digipeer.de/index.php%3Fstatic%3D52
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[07:30] <M6GTG_nerdsville> You are famous Dave, my 79 year old mum had heard about Babbage's flight
[07:30] <daveake> hah
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[07:45] <eroomde> so what's new?
[07:45] <eroomde> what's your techy debrief of spain daveake?
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[07:49] <daveake> Plane looks great needs fettling; HAB side went well; rocket stuff<lost carrier>
[07:50] <eroomde> they need uncle ed
[07:51] <daveake> I know
[07:51] <eroomde> tbh just having the wrong off-the-shelf igniter is going to be a dead-end
[07:51] <daveake> You know
[07:51] <daveake> They kinda know
[07:51] <eroomde> e-matches come in many flavours
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[07:52] <eroomde> A.L Kennedy is a woman
[07:52] <eroomde> didn't know that
[07:52] <eroomde> perhaps that's deliberate
[07:53] <daveake> Also I got through more beer in 1 week than I usually manage in 1 year
[07:54] <eroomde> i did like the reveal
[07:54] <eroomde> best use of pyros on an internet blog 2013
[07:54] <daveake> That was a hoot
[07:54] <daveake> :D
[07:54] <daveake> I had the idea of lining up the bottles and pulling them apart like a curtain
[07:54] <eroomde> but yeah, i'll be quite impressed if that thing holds up at 1700km/h
[07:54] <daveake> The pyro guys improved on that slightly :)
[07:55] <daveake> Well it is a lot stronger than it looks, but yes the g forces are pretty high and the final speed rather scary
[07:58] <eroomde> it's the canards i'd be worried about
[07:58] <daveake> yes definitely
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[07:58] <daveake> They have to stay movable as well as stay attached
[08:03] <eroomde> if just the servos indeed - and they'll see quite a lot of flutter probably
[08:04] <eroomde> which if they're just attached to servo outputs could result in badness 10000
[08:04] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ijkixREibs
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[08:25] <fsphil> eroomde: that looks more like rolling shutter + camera shake
[08:25] <eroomde> yes there is some of that obviously
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[08:25] <eroomde> but flutter is definitely a thing
[08:25] <fsphil> cool video. I wanna see a rocket launch some time
[08:25] <eroomde> it frequently rips the fins clean off supersonic rockets
[08:25] <fsphil> eek
[08:39] <eroomde> http://youtu.be/D-d_tN5NNPM?t=1m9s
[08:39] <eroomde> this is another video where you see flutter doing what it usually does to rockets
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[08:42] <fsphil> that parachute really didn't help much
[08:43] <eroomde> indeed
[08:46] <adamgreig> I like how the video telem cuts out
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[08:57] <JDat> hello there!
[08:57] <JDat> Some info about zinoo2
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[08:58] <JDat> thanks to habhub team for last minute help
[08:58] <JDat> i had some problems wit servers, but everything was solved
[08:58] <JDat> we planned launch on 11:00 UTC, but
[08:59] <JDat> 10:45 UTC we got rain
[08:59] <fsphil> hate that
[08:59] <fsphil> all ready to go and it snows or something
[08:59] <JDat> we launch balloon on 11:50 in the rain
[09:00] <JDat> no probles with rain
[09:00] <JDat> everything was great
[09:00] <JDat> we got 33KM altitude, but arfer burst there was problems with GPS
[09:01] <JDat> so again messed telemetry on last phase
[09:01] <JDat> recovery was without any problems
[09:01] <JDat> GoPro recovered and we got nice video
[09:02] <JDat> special thant to x-f
[09:02] <JDat> he was on launch site for a moment
[09:02] <JDat> an later worked on telemetry reception
[09:03] <JDat> live video downlink worked great
[09:03] <fsphil> analogue?
[09:03] <JDat> heat from 1.28 GHz transmitter is anoug to heatup all electronics
[09:04] <JDat> internal temeriture was 10-25 degrees all time
[09:04] <JDat> temperiture*
[09:04] <JDat> so
[09:05] <JDat> great flight and show for zinoo and space festival
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[10:08] <jjioeeman> hello
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Morning
[10:09] <jjioeeman> Hi Geoff
[10:09] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:09] <jjioeeman> a lot of enthusiasts
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Plenty of people tracking down Eastern Europe today!
[10:10] <jjioeeman> any one recommend a good 18650 battery?
[10:10] <jjioeeman> yes... i noticed!
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> 18650 ?
[10:10] <jjioeeman> none here im cairns north qld
[10:10] <jjioeeman> battery
[10:10] <iain_G4SGX> Just been sent this, hmmmm, seems a lot of money. http://www.gofundme.com/4g9wsc
[10:10] <jjioeeman> it is li-ion batt
[10:11] <jjioeeman> ive cooked quite a few batteries :-(
[10:11] <jjioeeman> read up a lot....
[10:11] <jjioeeman> and see which ones have good characteristics
[10:12] <jjioeeman> desirble for my hab....
[10:12] <apollo1> anyone know sp9uob freq???
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[10:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you see leoBodnar aroud he is LiPo's on his B-xx flights
[10:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> he is *using
[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> iain_G4SGX, Being a bit hopefull if you ask me!
[10:14] <x-f> JDat, was nice meeting you and Minivat, not that i did much there yesterday :)
[10:14] <jjioeeman> hmm
[10:14] <x-f> apollo1, 437.6 MHz, USB
[10:14] <jjioeeman> what is the rabge of this tracking stuff?
[10:15] <apollo1> x-f: thank you!!
[10:16] <Laurenceb__> is EA1EXV around?
[10:16] <Laurenceb__> might pick something up about now
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> I can normally Rx out to around 300+Km when using 10mW on 434MHz jjioeeman
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[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Haven't seen EA1EXv on the channel Laurenceb, even when he was sending in records for Lohan
[10:23] <F1VJQ> jjioeeman I received RTTY at 700km from the LOHAN flight, but a bit smeared and no decode.....
[10:24] <fsphil> jjioeeman: I was there last year :) nice part of the world
[10:26] ATCC (5207d160@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.7.209.96) joined #highaltitude.
[10:29] <JDat> x-f: thanks for telemetry, statistics and help
[10:30] <eroomde> apollo1 is not a good name for a payload
[10:31] <fsphil> apollo 1 take 2
[10:31] <apollo1> why is that???
[10:31] <fsphil> it didn't end well last time
[10:32] <apollo1> :)
[10:33] Nick change: apollo1 -> apollo2
[10:33] <apollo2> better now????
[10:33] <JDat> much better :D
[10:39] <Laurenceb__> we could go full on business speak
[10:39] <Laurenceb__> call it synergy
[10:41] <Laurenceb__> touchbasehab
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[10:45] <ATCC> Do we ahave a launch this afternoon?
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[10:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Afternoo (Almost) - All the launches I knew about have been posponed because of weather
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[10:53] <DL7AD> what happpened to SP3OSJ?
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[11:01] <ATCC> Steve many thanks seemed to think we hvae one from "ToGo1" at Elsworthy this afternoon seeking clarification
[11:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sadly not. The weather is against them
[11:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> From UKHAS Google Group: "Following on from Steve's deferment to tomorrow, we will also not launch today. Hoping for better winds another weekend! Ugi"
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[11:04] <ATCC> Steve many thanks for the clarification Andy
[11:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> No problem Andy.
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> MOD1 was launching yesterday but deffered to today but winds still put them over London so I think they have revised again.
[11:05] <ATCC> Thanks Geoff
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[11:07] <Willdude123> My design link on eagle doesn't seem to work
[11:08] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/01hWWrB
[11:15] <Willdude123> Ping Upu
[11:15] <Willdude123> Do you sell the Taoglas?
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[11:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just to let everyone know, I'm testing a tracker. YAYU_TEST - I'm going to do a walkabout locally but it's unlikely anyone will be able to receive since it's at ground level.
[11:18] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
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[11:25] <LeoBodnar> afternoon!
[11:25] <adamgreig> hi
[11:26] <LeoBodnar> looks like B-13 is lost
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> are SP3OSJ and SP8OUB still flying?
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB
[11:27] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: did the battery die last night?
[11:27] <Laurenceb__> should be in range on Ireland later today?
[11:28] <LeoBodnar> I am not sure, last reading was reasonably high for another 30 min or so.
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> It should be in range of the guys at the south of Spain so I assume they don't hear anything
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[11:30] <Laurenceb__> prediction has onyl EA1EXV in range ?
[11:30] <Willdude123> What wattage should my board's resistors be?
[11:30] <Laurenceb__> itll be well over sea by now
[11:30] <DL7AD> is SP9UOB still active?
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[11:33] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[11:35] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah MOD1 is around its flying
[11:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well that's impressive on 10mW
[11:38] <Willdude123> I don't like farnell. You waste an hoúr trying to find a resistor and then 5000 come along at once
[11:38] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE: do you know off hand the settings for mod1
[11:39] <Willdude123> Does it matter that they come in reels of 150?
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> its coming up as 50B 425Shift 7n1
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.073.751 for 1KHz center
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[11:42] <Willdude123> I wanted 4 components - I have to order 400 due to order minimums
[11:42] <adamgreig> you might be picking the wrong ones then
[11:42] <adamgreig> for most resistor values you can probably find a MOQ 10 option
[11:42] <tjanos> Good afternoon... I think, we were, who heard it last time...our story is: When sp9uob approached our boarder, two radio amateurs, living near the north boarder of the country, started to trak it.
[11:42] <tjanos> But they havenot installed software to decode and load up the data. He sent the reports to our list, based on decoded CW.
[11:43] <tjanos> At late night arrived home the third collegue, Dezso, HA3JK0 who live near the lake Balaton, and start to receive the signal, sent some report like this: "I recive it, it has strong sound, come from 150 degree direction..."
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[11:43] <tjanos> the last report was around 1.35, local time. He was tired, and went to sleep. Tomorrow mornig we dont able to receive anything...
[11:43] <mfa298> very weak but I can see it - will have to see if it decodes
[11:43] <Willdude123> adamgreig, tbh they aren't expensive so it doesn't matter
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[11:43] <Willdude123> If they work, that's all I care
[11:44] <adamgreig> fair enough
[11:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> No flight or payload documents for MOD1
[11:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Who launched MOD1?
[11:46] <mfa298> did they even announce on the list
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> M0ODY I thin it is
[11:46] <x-f> how did you find it?
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope
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[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thery came up here on the cannel Wednesday
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> *channel
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> they were advised
[11:47] <mfa298> I remember them being on the channel and suggesting launch may not be wise with how the predictions were looking
[11:47] <Laurenceb__> h
[11:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Partial decode of MOD1 here
[11:47] <mfa298> and the current predictions look about the same
[11:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Prediction shows St. Albans this morning
[11:48] <mfa298> how many -ve hab points if they hit heathrow
[11:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> They extended the NOTAM from 21st to 22 I see
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[11:49] <adamgreig> yo eroomde
[11:49] <eroomde> yoyo
[11:49] <Upu> what frequency is MOD1 on ?
[11:49] <adamgreig> I mentioned I was upgrading my blog to a static site
[11:50] <adamgreig> check this out
[11:50] <eroomde> yes
[11:50] <adamgreig> http://negativeacknowledge.com/2013/09/22/ipython-notebook-test/
[11:50] <JDat> for your information
[11:50] <JDat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHT6jHxbRwU&feature=c4-overview&list=UU
[11:50] <adamgreig> I can write an entire blog entry as a .ipynb
[11:50] <adamgreig> put it in the contents folder
[11:50] <JDat> zinoo2 launch
[11:50] <mfa298> Upu: just under 434.075
[11:50] <adamgreig> and it appears as a blog entry, with code highlighted, charts, etc etc
[11:50] <eroomde> oh lovely!
[11:50] <eroomde> which framework?
[11:50] <adamgreig> plus check out the new matplotlib pyplot.xkcd()
[11:50] <adamgreig> (at the bottom there)
[11:50] <JDat> there wal lot of crowd
[11:50] <eroomde> and what other glue?
[11:50] HeathrowT5 (54d23037@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.210.48.55) joined #highaltitude.
[11:50] <adamgreig> this is pelican
[11:50] <eroomde> yes i've seen xkcd pyplot
[11:50] <adamgreig> and this plugin https://github.com/danielfrg/pelican-ipythonnb
[11:50] <eroomde> it amused me for about 3 minutes
[11:50] <adamgreig> though a tiny bit modified
[11:51] <adamgreig> to stop it outputting ipynb's million lines of CSS
[11:51] <adamgreig> (pelican already outputs pygments.css for the theme)
[11:51] <adamgreig> have now imported everything from wordpress okay too
[11:52] <adamgreig> so I can just vim contents/new_post.md; write my post, with markdown for all the happy things, inline code highlights, images, whatever, then; make rsync_upload
[11:52] <adamgreig> and it pushes it to my server. or you can push it to your github pages adamgreig.github.io, or to S3 or anything really
[11:52] <adamgreig> takes care of it all for you. very handy.
[11:53] <adamgreig> https://github.com/adamgreig/negativeacknowledge
[11:53] <adamgreig> dropbox, even.
[11:54] <mfa298> looks to be quite a fady signal on MOD1
[11:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> pretty solid here ?
[11:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> despite some QRWM
[11:55] <mfa298> maybe that's just my location then
[11:56] Will___ (95feb69b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.254.182.155) joined #highaltitude.
[11:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/MOD1_20130922/
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[11:57] <Will___> Hi. Thanks for tracking MOD1 someone. In the chase car now!
[11:58] <mfa298> Will___: what burst altitude are you expecting ?
[11:58] <Martin_G4FUI> MOD1 is a stonking signal in Penrith
[11:58] <Will___> Thanks Geoff. First launch so pleased we got it up!
[11:59] <Will___> Penrith!
[11:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> First green on MOD1
[11:59] <Martin_G4FUI> Penrith England, not Penrith NSW :-)
[11:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Will___ Solid signal in Crayford now
[11:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Saw the test last night and that the NOTAM was extended so guessed you might fly, but not sure as its proximity to London and Heathrow
[11:59] <Will___> We would like 90k feet but quite a heavy payload at 1.4 kegs
[12:00] <Will___> It was a 1200g balloon. Nearly lost grip of it a fe times...
[12:00] <Will___> Ha. NSW would be something
[12:01] <mfa298> well at least that's an earlier burst than the live prediction is set for.
[12:02] <Will___> What does the live prediction say?
[12:02] <mfa298> inside the M25
[12:02] <mfa298> but that's set at 36km
[12:02] <eroomde> just outside on mine - hemel hempstead
[12:03] <Martin_G4FUI> Oh No, the Magic Roundabout !!
[12:03] <Will___> I know Hemel well,
[12:03] <Will___> Thanks Steve. And also to mark Ireland who built the tracker.
[12:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> No probs Will___ Always a pleasure to track.
[12:03] <Willdude123> Will____ I can imagine you nick will mess up peoples' tab completes for me and vica versa
[12:04] <Will___> Has been lots of fun so far!
[12:04] <mfa298> habhub calc seems to suggest burst at >30km for 1.4kg payload, 1200 hwoyee
[12:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/MOD1_20130922/index.php?ind=2
[12:04] <eroomde> i don't really know hemel at all
[12:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Will___: Well done having colons in the time - It's the details...
[12:04] <eroomde> except robot wars robots often came from hemel hempstead
[12:04] <Will___> It recently won the crappest toe
[12:04] <eroomde> in my childhood memory
[12:05] <Will___> Town of the year award :-)
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[12:05] <Will___> thanks Mfa . Is that 36 k up or from the launch site in long/lat.
[12:06] <eroomde> too near london to form an atmosphere
[12:06] <eroomde> like moons orbiting close to giant planets
[12:06] <eroomde> intact i don't think there's a nice town on the edge of the m25
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[12:06] <Will___> We had to postpone yesterday as it placed the balloon on the m25
[12:06] <mfa298> the 36K is what seems to be set on the live predictor (on spacenear.us) so it's using current location/ascent rate to generate a prediction (that moves around a bit)
[12:06] <eroomde> hatfield&slough...brentwood
[12:07] <eroomde> i guess some bits of surrey have got away with it
[12:07] <adamgreig> hah, depends what you mean by nice
[12:07] <adamgreig> most of the bits of surrey on the m25 are acceptably boring suburbs
[12:07] <mfa298> the >30km was based on your payload weight, balloon size and rough ascent rate (generally suggested burst at around 32km)
[12:07] <adamgreig> iirc you had an ex who lived in walton on thames once?
[12:08] <adamgreig> doesn't get more surrey-on-the-edge-of-the-m25 than that >_>
[12:08] <jim_g3wgm> Hi anyone know the tx freq for MOD1?
[12:08] <GMT> .075
[12:08] <GMT> ish
[12:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> drifting high
[12:08] <eroomde> yes i did
[12:08] <Will___> Wow. It was swaying around a lot on the way up - we're jets and light aircraft in the time leading up to launch. Guess its a case of big sky little balloons
[12:08] <eroomde> shelves in london now
[12:09] <eroomde> she lives
[12:09] <adamgreig> good move
[12:09] <eroomde> shelves?
[12:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> 434.075.10 50bd 7n2 and I have 400kHZ Shift
[12:09] <jim_g3wgm> Gr8 thanks.
[12:09] <Will___> Yep. It's 434.075
[12:09] <GMT> who does MOD1 belong to?
[12:09] <Will___> For mod1
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[12:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wow that will be a shit ;-)
[12:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> *shift!
[12:10] <eroomde> and a shit
[12:10] <eroomde> to listen to
[12:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Slowly creep up in freq Will___ Nothing to worry about
[12:10] <GMT> if it does land in NW London I can help search for it
[12:10] <Will___> That's me, mod1. My first launch. In chase car with my brother now
[12:11] <GMT> okay Will ... didn'nt see an announcement about this one on UKHAS this morning
[12:11] <Will___> Thanks GMT? We actually live in london so fingers crossed it drifts onto my flat
[12:11] Action: bertrik is turning on the RevSpace receiver for MOD1
[12:11] <GMT> maximum HAB points if you can achieve that!
[12:12] <Will___> didn't mean that question mar. I hear you get 1000 for catching it.
[12:13] <eroomde> it would sue if it landed between uxbridge and wembley
[12:13] <GMT> I would catch it if it landed near there, I'm the antenna mast in west London!
[12:13] <eroomde> suq*
[12:13] <Will___> Steve, the frequency creep, is that because of temperature and is the remedy just to adjust sdr sharp/fldigi?
[12:13] <eroomde> yes that was meant to be a belaboured pun but i typod
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[12:14] <GMT> what news from El-Dave, is he back from Spain yet?
[12:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Will___: Yeah, No worries. Just reporting it to you. I use an FT857 for Receive anyhow :-)
[12:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Stonking signal here in Crayford now
[12:15] <bertrik> I have only about 360 Hz shift on MOD1
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its reducing along with the drift up
[12:17] <mfa298> GMT: he came back a day or two ago
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[12:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Leo could probably hear it on a damp piece of string right now
[12:17] <GMT> okay, hopefully there will be a nice write-up about his trip
[12:17] <PE2G> First MOD1 decode at 515 km, 60 km outside the blue circle
[12:18] <GMT> Will___: anything special on this payload, cameras etc?
[12:18] <Martin_G4FUI> Just a kW Tx :-)
[12:19] <Will___> Was a Bit of a finger in the air guess on the level of lift. I heard about a water btt
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> receiving it with a hearing funnel
[12:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
[12:19] <Will___> :-) coke!
[12:19] <bertrik> MOD1 is swinging up and down in frequency :)
[12:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> It did a sudden dip
[12:20] <enkidu> unfortunately it will fall very fast :)
[12:20] <Will___> Bottle method and attached some string to a 2l cocke bottle
[12:20] <bertrik> I can't find MOD1 in the autoconfigure list
[12:20] <Will___> What is the significance of a red name?
[12:21] <GMT> bertrik: it's not there, but 434.075, 50 bd, 400 shift, 7n2
[12:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Will___: That's someone who has directed a post to you directly
[12:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> If you don't include someones nick, it doesn't do it
[12:22] <fsphil> not liking MOD1's landing prediction
[12:22] <GMT> I'm LIKING it!
[12:22] <Will___> Thanks Steve. How do I send one to someone directly.
[12:22] <fsphil> if it gets a bit higher it'll be inside the M25 .. risky
[12:23] <mfa298> fsphil: hopefully burst is a bit before what the live predictor is set for
[12:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Will___: Include their full nick in your post like Will___
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> type slash PRIVMSG and their name and message
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[12:23] <Will___> Hmmm
[12:23] <fsphil> what's the frequency? it should be just withing range of me
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> slash-PRIVMSG together and slash is \ backwards
[12:23] <mfa298> it did show inside the M25 earlier but I think that was a few points when ascent had dropped to <4m/s
[12:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.076.053
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[12:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh if you want a private message, do as Leo said, Including a nick on here is public
[12:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> \privmsg LeoBodnar I didn't know that :-)
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[12:24] <keydash> Hello
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> It didn't work :)
[12:25] <fsphil> nothing on 434.500 :)
[12:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> I know LOL
[12:25] <Will___> Ok, got it. Thanks
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> lol
[12:25] <fsphil> I'll keep checking
[12:25] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: you want /msg Leo
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[12:25] <GMT> fsphil: try .075
[12:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers mfa298
[12:25] <mfa298> or privmsg or query
[12:25] <fsphil> GMT: this was for B-13 :)
[12:25] <GMT> ah, okay
[12:25] <Will___> GMT: yep we have a camera on board and a rocket which the camera faces
[12:26] <fsphil> yea I can hear MOD1
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[12:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/MOD1_20130922/MOD1_201309221326.jpg
[12:26] <Will___> GMT: Not a real rocket, a model Saturn 5 made from toilet rolls and pritstiks
[12:26] <PE2G> MOD1 signal strenght at such low elevation is far better than average
[12:27] <fsphil> 370hz shift
[12:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Will___: Whats the transmitter output?
[12:27] <PE2G> Even drowning out local QRM
[12:27] <Will___> Sorry, missed the privmsg bu
[12:27] <fsphil> PE2G: agreed. getting good decodes already
[12:27] <Will___> Bit. Car is shaking us around
[12:27] <ATCC> thought I smelyt a ballon out there somewhere!
[12:28] <Will___> What's qrm?
[12:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Interference
[12:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's a Ham Radio term
[12:28] <fsphil> man-made interference
[12:29] <bertrik> PE2G: 21 dB S/N on MOD1 here
[12:29] <fsphil> -11db :)
[12:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> 21db I've had to trun my output down
[12:29] <ATCC> man made and other junk made like car alarms burg alarms other users etc
[12:29] <fsphil> it's not strong enough to survive the local qrm
[12:30] <PE2G> 18-20 dB here
[12:30] <fsphil> conditions are either very good or they've a good antenna
[12:30] <ATCC> QRM basically anything you dont want on the channel your trying to monitor/ listen too!
[12:30] <fsphil> and just as I say that it fades a bit
[12:30] <PE2G> 20 dB now
[12:30] <Martin_G4FUI> I'll have to leave it with you chaps, family duties! Happy landings Will___
[12:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is there anyway of getting payload telemetry out of EPT without documents ?
[12:31] <PE2G> There may be conditions
[12:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> 73 G4FUI
[12:31] Nick change: Martin_G4FUI -> Martin_G4FUI_AFK
[12:31] <Will___> Not sure about the transmitter output but we splayed out the antenna 5 ways like a spider minus a few legs
[12:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Interesting
[12:32] <fsphil> ntx2?
[12:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its Stratodean build I believe
[12:33] <fsphil> weird, it's gotten weaker as it got higher
[12:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not here fsphil Blazing sigs
[12:34] <GMT> Will___: no HAB chase app on phone? no car sysmbol on Spacenear map
[12:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> 20+dB above noise flr here
[12:35] <fsphil> -9db now
[12:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> There's a receiver in N.Ireland appearing on the list.MI0VIM
[12:35] <fsphil> hello G0TDJ_Steve :)
[12:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi fsphil
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[12:35] <fsphil> that's me
[12:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL Oh!
[12:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well done on Rx, That's DX :D
[12:36] <fsphil> 483km
[12:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool
[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> lots of turbulence
[12:36] <PE2G> Blue line approaching me and 22 dB http://s21.postimg.org/4kju8m47b/Screen1104.jpg
[12:36] <mfa298> fsphil: that's the downside of not joining the callsign in nick brigade.
[12:37] <fsphil> yes I must just put my ham hat on
[12:37] Nick change: fsphil -> fsphil_MI0VIM
[12:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yay! :D
[12:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry for being so wet behind the ears
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[12:38] <fsphil_MI0VIM> payload sounds like it's spinning a lot
[12:38] <eroomde> look at the track
[12:38] <Willdude123> if the NTX2 was used for the intended purpose of short range comms, what mode would be used?
[12:39] <eroomde> it's clearly in a very turbulent shear layer
[12:39] <fsphil_MI0VIM> or drunk
[12:39] <Darkside> Willdude123: full-deviation FSK
[12:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> I was going to say wiggly :-)
[12:39] <Darkside> where in the NTX2's case, full deviation is about 20KHz
[12:39] <eroomde> it'll currently feel like it's in a boxing ring
[12:39] <F1VJQ> where is the freq and telemetry detail for MOD1?
[12:39] <fsphil_MI0VIM> Willdude123: same as we do now basically, but without the resistors
[12:39] <mfa298> looks like it tried doing an etch-a-sketch cloud
[12:39] <fsphil_MI0VIM> and much faster
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[12:40] <fsphil_MI0VIM> etch-a-sketch tracker map, there's a project for someone when they're bored
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> No documents lodged so no details on line but 434.075+ 50/3608n1
[12:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> F1VJQ 434.075.10 50bd 7n2 and I have 370kHZ Shift
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> 7n1 rather
[12:40] <eroomde> many moons ago (over half a decade!) we caught some vid footage of what it's like in conditions like that
[12:40] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1598522
[12:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Opps, sorry Geoff-G8DHE correct 7n1
[12:41] <mfa298> I think I got decodes with both 7n1 and 7n2
[12:41] <fsphil_MI0VIM> fldigi's modem doesn't care about stop bits for decoding
[12:41] <F1VJQ> G0TD OK thanks
[12:41] <fsphil_MI0VIM> it always assumes one
[12:41] <fsphil_MI0VIM> then just waits for the start bit
[12:41] <F1VJQ> G0TDJ Thanks
[12:42] <fsphil_MI0VIM> you could have 6 stop bits and it'll still work :)
[12:42] <Upu> no flight doc for this one
[12:42] <fsphil_MI0VIM> very choppy signal now, not getting any decodes
[12:42] <fsphil_MI0VIM> indeed Upu
[12:42] <Willdude123> Upu do you sell the Taoglas?
[12:43] <mfa298> there's been very little information about this one apart from a little bit on IRC wednesday evening
[12:43] <Upu> Willdude123 not yet not
[12:43] <Upu> Will sort when I get back to work
[12:44] <eroomde> yeah will
[12:44] <GMT> no flight doc: is that why I'm not seeing range and bearing figures?
[12:44] <Willdude123> Okay. Just ordering caps and resistors from farnell.
[12:44] <eroomde> sort it out
[12:44] <Upu> yes GMT
[12:44] <fsphil_MI0VIM> haha
[12:44] <fsphil_MI0VIM> was thinking it
[12:44] <Willdude123> Have to buy 400 by the looks of it
[12:44] <Upu> Shall we make them a doc ?
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Go on
[12:44] <fsphil_MI0VIM> yay, another decode
[12:45] <eroomde> sterling work fsphil_MI0VIM
[12:45] <fsphil_MI0VIM> thanks old chum
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Range and Bearing are done within dl-fldigi
[12:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Wierd city fsphil_MI0VIM It's just dipped for me LOL
[12:45] <eroomde> or is it stirling?
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[12:46] <fsphil_MI0VIM> stirling engine?
[12:46] <eroomde> stirling work might be a pun on thermodynamic cycles
[12:46] <Upu> I can't find MOD1 as a payload doc
[12:46] <fsphil_MI0VIM> I used an old unapproved doc
[12:47] <fsphil_MI0VIM> listed as Moody
[12:47] <Upu> k
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[12:47] <Will___> I've haven't uploaded anything to has on MOD1 but did file a NOTAM. Was in a mad dash to get everything ready
[12:47] <Upu> ok approved
[12:48] <Upu> refresh payloads
[12:48] <Upu> Will___ you're part of MOD1 team ?
[12:48] <Will___> Moody, that's me
[12:49] <Upu> Ah ok its all sorted now
[12:49] <eroomde> Will___: http://vimeo.com/1598522 incase you missed it, that video is the sort of thing your payload would have been going through during the wiggly portion of the tracking you just passed through
[12:49] <Will___> Are there other official notifications to file other than with the CAA, or is it just for general interest?
[12:49] <Upu> what ballono is it ?
[12:49] <Upu> and what do you expect the burst alt to be ?
[12:49] <eroomde> where there is sheer and churning from different layers of winds going in different directions where they meet
[12:49] Nick change: Upu -> Upu_M0UPU
[12:49] <eroomde> Will___: nothing official at all, just the ukhas mailing list so other likeminded hobbyists can have a heads-up to track
[12:49] <Will___> Upu, yes we are the mod team, in chase car now
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Will___, its to let the Habitat server understand and record the telemetry etc.
[12:50] <Upu_M0UPU> ok what balloon and whats estimated burst alt ?
[12:50] <mfa298> Upu: with the values from will earlier I think burst is around 32k (1400g payload, 1200 balloon, ~5m/s ascent)
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[12:50] <Will___> Hoping for 90k feet . It's a 1200 gram. Howee I think
[12:51] <eroomde> payload mass?
[12:51] <fsphil_MI0VIM> 27.4km
[12:51] <Upu_M0UPU> ok
[12:51] <Will___> I bough it from an American company, they didn't specify. 1.4 kg mass
[12:51] <fsphil_MI0VIM> you're basically at that now
[12:51] <eroomde> sounds a bit low for a typical payload
[12:51] <Upu_M0UPU> Will___ approving the doc and flight doc make things work in the back ground
[12:51] <Will___> Woohoo!
[12:51] <eroomde> burst-alt wise
[12:52] <fsphil_MI0VIM> yea it'll probably go higher
[12:52] <fsphil_MI0VIM> 30km anyway
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> like automatically presents the payload to the dl-fldigi client to autoconfig
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> makes the auto rotation programs work
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> etc
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> don't worry about it
[12:52] <Upu_M0UPU> go get it
[12:52] <mfa298> burst calc gave 32km +/- a bit depending on ascent rate earlier
[12:53] <fsphil_MI0VIM> should keep it clear of london anyway
[12:53] <eroomde> autorotation is something helicopters have to do when the shit hits the fan
[12:53] <eroomde> can we come up with a different word for antenna pointing :)
[12:53] <fsphil_MI0VIM> auto-aim
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[12:53] <Will___> I wasn't expecting to get data back over 50k ft. Was under impression there was a blackout period
[12:53] <fsphil_MI0VIM> auto-pointer-at-the-hab
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Aerials came before helicopters
[12:53] <Upu_M0UPU> depends what GPS you're using
[12:53] <fsphil_MI0VIM> to be honest track-a-tron is good enough
[12:53] <eroomde> Will___: unless you drink too much during the flight to steady your nerves, there should be no blackout period
[12:53] <Upu_M0UPU> if you're using a ublox in flight mode you're good for 150k feet though we do use metric int he UK :)
[12:54] <fsphil_MI0VIM> there's an imperial int?
[12:54] <fsphil_MI0VIM> that's probably what ubasic on chdk used
[12:54] <Upu_M0UPU> heh
[12:55] <fsphil_MI0VIM> I can't make fun of your typos, you've too good an excuse
[12:55] <Upu_M0UPU> well they only fixed my eye not my fingers
[12:55] <Upu_M0UPU> Will___ you now have listeners as far out as the Netherlands
[12:55] <Upu_M0UPU> and France
[12:55] <bertrik> certainly not a lack of trackers on MOD1 :)
[12:55] <F1VJQ> I expect MOD to pop over horizon soon! Hope it carries on up!!
[12:56] <Upu_M0UPU> and you're predicted to land south of Leyton Buzzard
[12:56] <mfa298> presumably imperial int would need to be uint32 rather than uint16 so it doesn't overflow at 65k ft (20km)
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[12:57] <eroomde> leyton buzzard
[12:58] <fsphil_MI0VIM> the imperial int would overflow at a different value depending on where the program is being run
[12:58] <eroomde> the energy that gets released when you vaporise a buzzard
[12:58] <fsphil_MI0VIM> is that where they dropped the atomic buzzard?
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[13:00] <fsphil_MI0VIM> and there goes 30km
[13:00] <bertrik> nice
[13:00] <Upu_M0UPU> we know 1200g's can do 40km...
[13:00] <GMT> fsphil_MI0VIM: they dropped a bomb on Luton once, and it did nearly £10 worth of damage
[13:01] <fsphil_MI0VIM> would probably improve it
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/MOD1_20130922/index.php?ind=6
[13:01] <mfa298> not £10 or improvements ?
[13:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> fsphil_MI0VIM: Auto-Tracking (I was out of the room)
[13:03] <fsphil_MI0VIM> lunch time here, gonna be out of the room shortly
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[13:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, scoffing Ham and Pickle sarnies while I watch the fun
[13:04] <fsphil_MI0VIM> this payload is accelerating
[13:04] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: it should be bacon butties
[13:04] <GMT> I've just troughed, ready to 'go chase' if needed
[13:04] <fsphil_MI0VIM> ooh,, burst or turbulance?
[13:04] Action: mfa298 realises it's past lunchtime and there's bacon in the fridge :)
[13:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> I know mfa298 *sigh* - No bacon available
[13:05] <fsphil_MI0VIM> turbulance.. the signal nearly disappered
[13:05] <GMT> I had unicorn for lunch
[13:05] <Upu_M0UPU> btw if anyone wants a portable receiver for HAB work :
[13:06] <Upu_M0UPU> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171128414967&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:GB:3160
[13:06] <Upu_M0UPU> £36 at the moment
[13:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice
[13:06] <fsphil_MI0VIM> I'm impressed how well the FCD++ works
[13:06] <Upu_M0UPU> mines broken
[13:06] <GMT> I will stick with my Yupi's
[13:06] <Upu_M0UPU> but can't get a response from Howard
[13:06] <Upu_M0UPU> it has a persistent clicking in the back ground
[13:07] <eroomde> you might have to wait a Long time
[13:07] <fsphil_MI0VIM> oh dear
[13:07] <fsphil_MI0VIM> are you Shore?
[13:07] <fsphil_MI0VIM> burst!
[13:07] <fsphil_MI0VIM> maybe
[13:08] <fsphil_MI0VIM> aye
[13:08] <GMT> yup
[13:08] <Upu_M0UPU> http://i.imgur.com/wi0fbVA.jpg
[13:08] <Upu_M0UPU> top fcd+
[13:08] <Upu_M0UPU> burst
[13:08] <fsphil_MI0VIM> right, lunch
[13:08] <GMT> landing prediction now say Tottenham!
[13:09] <mfa298> lets hope that prediction shifts
[13:09] <bertrik> frequency is swinging quickly again
[13:09] <fsphil_MI0VIM> eek
[13:09] <F1VJQ> another one where the coverage just gets to me and stops!!
[13:10] <eroomde> that prediction was probably based on the moving average still having memory of the ascent rate
[13:10] <fsphil_MI0VIM> yea
[13:10] <Willdude123> burst
[13:10] <fsphil_MI0VIM> much more sensible now
[13:10] <eroomde> and so thinking the descent rate was much lower than it was
[13:10] <fsphil_MI0VIM> lunch, properly this time
[13:10] <Willdude123> I just felt like saying burst, I have no clue if it burst or not.
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[13:10] Nick change: fsphil_MI0VIM -> fsphil
[13:11] <bertrik> Willdude123: it burst 8 km ago :)
[13:11] <Willdude123> Anyway quick BF3 match
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[13:12] <Willdude123> Hi ibanezmatt13
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> hi will
[13:14] <Upu_M0UPU> I wonder if they put a parachute on this
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[13:15] <bertrik> what's a fair estimation for descent speed vs altitude?
[13:15] <Upu_M0UPU> half the speed @ 10km is about the landing speed
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[13:19] <bertrik> S/N quickly dropping here, now at about 10 dB
[13:20] <Upu_M0UPU> decent rate is fine
[13:21] <ATCC> strong sigs southampton: at 22db
[13:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> 23/24db still here
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[13:22] <will___> Finally managed to track MOD1! look to be descending very quickly
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[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks to be landing just South of LB
[13:24] <will___> Thanks Geoff. Just having roast beef in LB now
[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[13:24] <will___> Half an hout to touchdowm maybe?
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Current prediction is 13:47
[13:25] <Upu_M0UPU> ish
[13:25] <Upu_M0UPU> you're coming in a little quick
[13:25] <will___> Looks like the parachute took a while to open up as it seemed to be hammering down at one point
[13:25] <will___> is that UTC?
[13:25] <Upu_M0UPU> You have about 20 mins
[13:25] <Upu_M0UPU> I'd be eating up and heading out
[13:27] <bertrik> will___: at high altitude the air is so thin, the parachute works a lot less effectively
[13:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> will___: Have you a portable receiver with you?
[13:28] <will___> yep Steve, got a funcube dongle. Seems to bw workign and we are uploading to spaceners
[13:28] <will___> yep Steve, got a funcube dongle. Seems to bw workign and we are uploading to spacenersspacenear
[13:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/MOD1_20130922/index.php?ind=9
[13:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool stuff will___ What callsign?
[13:29] <will___> Its MOD1!
[13:30] <Upu_M0UPU> you're not upload
[13:30] <will___> if anyone is interested, we have a spot satellite tracker ion ir as well
[13:30] <will___> http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0Ka2ephx2fB3vrVsnlR79Lna6kkkNQ39j
[13:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> No your tracking callsign
[13:30] <will___> this shared page shows it up - transmits eeri 15 mins
[13:30] <Upu_M0UPU> if it lands upside down I'll be interested to see if SPOT works
[13:30] <Upu_M0UPU> genuinely
[13:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Loosing signal here now
[13:31] <will___> i dont think it will. We built tha payload so that ot would land upright
[13:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> will___: What is your tracking callsign, in the list on Spacenear?
[13:32] <will___> Thanks UPu. Tryign to stuff it down. Beef is really rare. Cant leave it on teh plate
[13:34] <Upu_M0UPU> lol
[13:34] <Upu_M0UPU> you have 10 mins till landing
[13:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Loosing it now
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[13:35] <will___> It is practically overhead. Might shoot for this 1000 points :-)
[13:37] <Maxell> hehe!
[13:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> will___: You should go to http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ on your smartphone and show us where you are
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[13:38] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
[13:38] <Upu> Right afk good luck on locating the payload will___
[13:39] <will___> Steve, you cant see it on space near?
[13:39] <will___> thanks UPU.
[13:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> will___: I can see the balloon yes, but not you
[13:39] <will___> We are near grove, just down the road. I think we an walk it from the pub:-)
[13:40] <Maxell> will___: or even https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pexat.habhub.chasecartracker
[13:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool. If you used http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ we would get an icon of your position
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[13:41] <will___> Trying to do that now
[13:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well MOD1 missed the large body of water anyway...
[13:41] <will___> Phew!
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[13:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah hes on the map
[13:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Got you on the map will___ Well done
[13:43] <will___> OK, you should see us as mood1 as a car now
[13:43] <will___> Took a while!
[13:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> MOD1 landed
[13:43] <will___> Gypsy lane!
[13:44] <will___> thanks for the help
[13:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not too far to go
[13:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> No probs
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[13:46] <Maxell> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=MOD1%3BMoood1_chase
[13:47] <Tramvai> Can someone help me with a sprintf + float related issue? Arduino prints gps_lat (Latitude information received from TinyGPS) just fine, but the transmitter sends it as a completely different value (Computer prints: 45.XXXXX; radio receives: 11104XXXXXX).
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[13:48] <Tramvai> I am using the usual sprintf(datastring, "%ld", gps_lat/100000.0);
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[13:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Tramvai: I've only just started in programming so this may be wrong but how about trying "%06lu" to convert to characters? Any good?
[13:51] <mfa298> lu would be for an unsigned int not a float.
[13:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah, OK
[13:51] <mfa298> I think arduino doesn't have float support for snprintf by default you either have to enable the library or use an alternative function to convert it
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[13:54] <Tramvai> Would it work if I simply converted it into a string?
[13:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Dunno if you can now. Any advise mfa298 ?
[13:55] <mfa298> I think there's a standard function to convert a float to a string
[13:55] <mfa298> I've not done much with arduino so I can't remember the specific
[13:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nor me sadly
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[13:56] <Tramvai> X-f suggested dtostrf()
[13:56] <fsphil> yea snprintf won't do it by default on the avr
[13:56] <Tramvai> Is that the one?
[13:56] <fsphil> yea that'll work
[13:59] <mfa298> looks like their spot is working
[13:59] <craag> G'day mfa298
[13:59] <craag> Thanks for the usb gps
[13:59] <mfa298> afternoon craag
[13:59] <craag> worked fantastically
[13:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Phil
[13:59] <mfa298> excellent
[14:00] <craag> Hi Steve
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[14:00] <mfa298> I suppose I should have monitored aprs this morning to see if I heard anything
[14:00] <craag> You probably wouldn't have, we were deep in the new forest with just a portable digi
[14:02] <craag> In the end it was netbook+handheld for the setup, had major issues with the USB soundcard on the Pi, lost me too much time to play around with the Radiometrix.
[14:02] <mfa298> I did manage to hear matt's balloon when they launched from N of Lyndhurst while it was still on the ground, although if you were a bit further in might have been a bit too far.
[14:02] <craag> Yeah we were down around New Milton
[14:03] <mfa298> soundcards on the pi seem to be interesting, although I don't think I've done much on the newer pi boards.
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[14:05] <craag> I tried it running off the USB on a new Pi, it rebooted the Pi. Then tried it all off a powered hub, but it still failed to bring up the soundcard, so then powered the Pi seperately and had the soundcard on the hub with a 2A supply, but it still rebooted every 30 seconds or so, which would crash soundmodem and lose any packets in the buffer.
[14:05] <craag> I ran it for a month last year all off that exact psu and hub. No idea what's changed.
[14:06] <mfa298> I think I found the soundcard worked but when I tried to do anything with it the usb subsystem had issues
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[14:07] <mfa298> that might have been with older kernels as well
[14:07] <bertrik> I see that MOD1 moved on the satellite tracker, possibly just GPS jumping around, or they are recovering it now
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[14:07] <craag> Yeah it all seems to point to the usb subsystem.
[14:08] <craag> In fact last year the soundcard was the only thing on the USB (GPS was on uart)
[14:08] <craag> So maybe that's the answer
[14:08] Action: craag starts beating on Hab Supplies' shutters..
[14:09] <bertrik> craag: need your "fix" ? :D
[14:09] <craag> bertrik: Absolutely, I'm starting to get ublox withdrawal :(
[14:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> bertrik: MOD1 being recovered
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[14:18] <Maxell> craag: hey, you are waking up the campers outisde
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[14:20] <fsphil> hamcamp?
[14:22] <eroomde> thinking of arko now
[14:23] <eroomde> i just discovered in my fridge the aspalls cider he bought but didn't drink
[14:23] <LazyLeopard> It won't keep... ;)
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[14:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> MOD1 has been recoevered according to the SPOT Rx
[14:38] <fsphil> still nothing on 434.500 here
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[14:38] <fsphil> if it does make it this far it'll be night time and probably not transmitting :(
[14:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> SPOT just updated Geoff-G8DHE
[14:43] <Laurenceb__> should be in range by 6pm?
[14:46] <fsphil> I thought it would be later, then there is a chance
[14:46] <fsphil> hope it's in range, if it swings by over the atlantic I might not hear it
[14:47] <fsphil> I've got mountains to the north and west of here
[14:51] <eroomde> adamgreig: so for what it's worth, as you probe already know anyway, i agree with you that pypy+cffi is probably the new Nice Way Of Doing Things
[14:54] <Upu> where abouts should B-13 be now ?
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[14:59] <adamgreig> eroomde: yea it's pretty nice. write normal native C, have happy quick easy interface.
[14:59] <adamgreig> cython is a cool idea too for some things I guess
[15:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Object Movie of flight path for MOD1 this morning http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/MOD1_20130922/MOD1_20130922.html
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[15:14] Nick change: Martin_G4FUI_AFK -> Martin_G4FUI
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[15:39] <Will2> Not sure if previous posts got uploaded but MOD1 recovered. Thanks for the tracking help
[15:39] <eroomde> good work
[15:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yay! Well done. Good flight
[15:40] <DL1SGP> yay
[15:40] <eroomde> any choice pics?
[15:42] <Willdude123> I chickened out of rooting my nexus 7.
[15:42] <Willdude123> Picked up 50w soldering station.
[15:42] <Will2> Thanks! Leant loads today. Heading back to base now then will grab some photos off the gopro. Where would I upload them?
[15:43] <Upu> imgur.com
[15:44] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: have you used 6632Bs to sink current?
[15:44] <eroomde> nope, only read that such a thing is doable
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[15:45] <eroomde> you?
[15:45] <Will2> It's quite a task monitoring trackers, driving, fitting in lunch, updating people who have shown an interest and trying to intercept. Was really fun - also. Looking forward to being a bystander next time with a bit less panic :-)
[15:45] <LeoBodnar> If I need to discharge LiPos at 100mA to stop at 3V I guess I set V=3V and I=-100mA does this sound logical?
[15:45] <eroomde> yep!
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> cool just checking for sanity
[15:46] <eroomde> @ Will2 back in the day, when the 'internet' load was much lower than today, we still often had someone dedicated to talking to the web
[15:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Will2: You did a good job for your first flight. I hope my first goes as well.
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> Charging works great btw
[15:46] <eroomde> the yep was at Will2, LeoBodnar
[15:46] <eroomde> but that also sounds logical too me i guess
[15:46] <eroomde> lemme know
[15:47] <LeoBodnar> k
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[15:51] <eroomde> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metcal-soldering-station-high-power-STSS-PS2E-supply-and-soldering-iron-/251339853719?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3a8505cf97
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[16:04] <Martin_G4FUI> Sorry I couldn't track as much as would have been possible, due to other commitments Will2 but very well done, and your tx and aerial were putting a fine signal into Cumbria - easy tracking!
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[16:10] <Tramvai> I'm about to die here
[16:10] <Tramvai> int test_alt = 65;
[16:11] <eroomde> so far so survivable...
[16:11] <Tramvai> So I do a basic sprintf command, set it to a char
[16:11] <Tramvai> I transmit it
[16:11] <Tramvai> And I receive '589889'
[16:11] <Tramvai> How does 65 become 589889?
[16:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Tramvai: It took me 1 and a half days to sort out a single sprinf line - Don't feel too bad!
[16:11] <Tramvai> I have it in a controlled enviroment
[16:12] <enkidu> how you sprintf it to char?
[16:12] <Tramvai> sprintf(datastring,"$$EES,%d,%02d:%02d:%02d,%f,%f,%ld,%d", count, gps_hour, gps_minute, gps_second, test_lat, test_lon, test_alt, test_sats);
[16:12] <Tramvai> $$EES,8,00:46:03,45.313370,52.513371,589889,13610*D881
[16:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> This is what happened to me. In MS Visual C++ everything worked fine, Arduino screwed it up!
[16:12] <Tramvai> The last 2 values go apeshit for me
[16:14] <Tramvai> test_alt and test_stats are just regular integers
[16:14] <enkidu> and yo pass long int to printf
[16:14] <Upu> AVR is 8 bit
[16:15] <Upu> so watch your data types
[16:15] <enkidu> %ld will read more than regular int
[16:15] <enkidu> so allocate data with: long int test alt = 65;
[16:16] <Tramvai> Oh wow, that fixed it
[16:16] <eroomde> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__stdint.html
[16:16] <Tramvai> How come it affected the last value as well?
[16:16] <enkidu> pointer shift?
[16:16] <eroomde> so %ld is going to turn whatever the 32 bits are starting with test_alt into a number
[16:17] <eroomde> but only 8 bits are describing the alt in your declaration of: Tramvai: int test_alt = 65;
[16:17] <eroomde> er 16 even sorry
[16:17] <eroomde> so avr-libc (the linked to) defines int as 16 bits
[16:17] <enkidu> eroomde: sizeof (int) etc
[16:18] <Tramvai> Oh yeah, thanks.
[16:18] <enkidu> visual and gcc are using 32-bit int and long int
[16:18] <eroomde> it can be confusing switching between architectures but if you understand why it wash;t work and now why it is working then that's all good
[16:19] <eroomde> the sailing only gets plainer even if it seems a bit choppy atm!
[16:19] <enkidu> also you can try using text streams, because printf is just stupid
[16:19] <Tramvai> I'm just a newbie, I'll stick with what works right now.
[16:20] <eroomde> just stick with printf
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[16:20] <eroomde> it's as old as the hills at works
[16:20] <eroomde> and*
[16:21] <DrLuke> how old are hills anyways
[16:21] <eroomde> i'm not sure but they do have eyes
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> Useless factoid: AS/400 used hardware abstraction level below "BIOS" and OS so even OS didn't know what hardware it was running on
[16:21] <gb73d> depends on the geology
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> I think they have changed three or four architectures and CPU suppliers and OS din't even notice
[16:22] <gb73d> hey u guys have u ever considered flying an infra red cam on a balloon?
[16:22] <eroomde> i believe number10 has
[16:23] <keydash> who's the barceloan receiver=?
[16:23] <keydash> *barcelona
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> Also AS/400 file system was a transactional database on sector level
[16:24] <eroomde> as/400 has released when i was 1
[16:24] <eroomde> according to the wikipods
[16:25] <eroomde> so i wasn't so up on transactionaldatabases then
[16:25] <eroomde> was released*
[16:26] <enkidu> actually it is nice on machines this scale
[16:27] <eroomde> which scale?
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> The size of a small fridge
[16:27] <enkidu> not so small...
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[16:27] <LeoBodnar> Lovely stuff QIC tapes and green terminals
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> I think IBM is still making them
[16:28] <enkidu> yes, they are
[16:28] <enkidu> series I or so
[16:29] <eroomde> i would like technology to die for a bit
[16:29] <eroomde> and force everyone to go back to assembler for a bit
[16:29] <enkidu> dont worry. It seems, that u
[16:29] <eroomde> would be a very useful learning exercise for everyone, including me
[16:29] <enkidu> sun is going to kill power lines for a moment
[16:29] <eroomde> it seems that I?
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[16:30] <LeoBodnar> I remember using IBM/360 assembler
[16:30] <eroomde> people in my generation have never really had to understand the hardware
[16:30] <enkidu> eroomde: 1987?
[16:30] <LeoBodnar> World was perfect
[16:30] <eroomde> even arduinos are more about getting the led to flash than understanding small computers
[16:30] <eroomde> 1987 would do
[16:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Z80 Assembler.... LOVELY
[16:31] <LeoBodnar> And rushing to post it on vanitytube
[16:31] <eroomde> there is room for a tab-from-scratch tutorial
[16:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> I would LOVE to program a tracker in Z80
[16:31] <enkidu> core i7 assembler... insane
[16:31] <eroomde> avr assembler
[16:31] <eroomde> hab-from-scratch*
[16:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Group project, we'll do a sub-routine each
[16:31] <eroomde> maybe with a standard hardware platform
[16:32] <eroomde> like the habduino
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> Z80 must still be produced in some form?
[16:32] <eroomde> use it to teach assembler, from blinkenlight to rtty to talking to the ublox
[16:32] <bertrik> I've done Z80 assembler and PIC assembler and I'm glad I can now just write C
[16:32] <martinus> I think there are two levels (or more) previously hardware only allowed the deep hardware hacker to use it due to the hefty learning curve. Now arduino (which I'll admit I love and use extensively) is giving a wider group access. I understand the negatives but consider how cheap the hardware is as a result of mass adoption.
[16:32] <eroomde> properly understand timers and everything
[16:32] <bertrik> and I wish the 8051 was never invented
[16:33] <eroomde> martinus: indeed
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> Haha banking nightmares
[16:33] <eroomde> it gets people in
[16:33] <eroomde> but it seems to plate in understanding quickly
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> each manufacturer has its own
[16:33] <martinus> Some people will simply throw a circuit together and that is as far as they will go, others will get that itch to learn more and start educating themselves.
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[16:34] <martinus> Far more positives than negatives IMHO.
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> Let's get back to pre-digital. I want an all-analogue tracker
[16:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Need an eye break - BBL
[16:34] <eroomde> the amount of debugging we have to do here because people are not making noddyGPSparse lib they found somewhere work with mySoftSerialLib they found somewhere else
[16:34] <martinus> .o/
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[16:34] <eroomde> and you look into it and say 'well they're both using timer1 so it's not going to work'
[16:34] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[16:34] <eroomde> and they stare blankly back because the mental model of how the micro controller actually works is just not there
[16:35] <eroomde> it's all api's and black boxes
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> and the next question is usually what is a timer?
[16:35] <martinus> I was beating my head off a table for the past few days thanks to a beta telescope mount driver. I think it's prompted me to refresh my C and see if I can't get to the bottom of the issue. :)
[16:35] <eroomde> so i have no real beef with that and everyone has to start somewhere. i just think there'd be lots of value in a similarly complete tab tutorial that started with the very basics
[16:36] <eroomde> as once you get the foundations, everything is demystified
[16:36] <eroomde> the world is your mollusc
[16:36] <eroomde> s/tab/hab
[16:36] <LeoBodnar> The only way I feel comfortable with C on a micro is when I have disassembled code in a parallel window
[16:36] <eroomde> i'm fine with c on a micro tbh :)
[16:37] <eroomde> but i think assembler is a better way of learning the architecture
[16:37] <eroomde> as you get no confusing c paradigms getting in the way
[16:37] <LeoBodnar> The problem is before you were forced to progress linearly by a book/magazine/prof/tutor
[16:37] <eroomde> *especially* pointers
[16:37] <martinus> I am a biomechanist/biomedical eng. by trade, it shocks me how many people in both businesses don't know a thing about how processors work. Many of them simpy use a lego approach to hardware or outsource it.
[16:37] <LeoBodnar> Now you just skip 12 videos and go to the end result demo
[16:37] <eroomde> which are totally obvious to people who've done assembler but can be baffling to people coming at C from a blank
[16:37] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yes i agree
[16:37] <LeoBodnar> assembler IS the architecture
[16:37] <martinus> I taught myself a bit of Z80 assembler waaaay back and it's stood me in good stead.
[16:37] <eroomde> i think the net is bimodally useful
[16:38] <eroomde> great for 'get the led blinking' blog post
[16:38] <eroomde> great for the latest research papers
[16:38] <eroomde> but the gap in between reuiqres a lot more self study and a lot less internet
[16:38] <eroomde> getting from beginner to competant
[16:39] <LeoBodnar> self-study including failures helps one's mental shaping
[16:39] <eroomde> totally
[16:39] <eroomde> you really need to bash your head against problems for a bit to learn the lessons from them
[16:39] <LeoBodnar> We have also grew very intolerant to failures both social and personal
[16:39] <martinus> I think we can only point people in the right direction and state, truthfully, that it's going to take time to learn this stuff but that it's worth it.
[16:40] <eroomde> we do
[16:40] <eroomde> sometimes people try your patience though
[16:40] <eroomde> partly the solution there is for me to take a break
[16:40] <eroomde> not their fault so much
[16:40] <martinus> Haha, I know but then in a feild that is not my own I am aware that I'm the noob.
[16:40] <eroomde> so for my part i've been on here since 2006, and one gets support fatigue eventually. same. questions. constantly.
[16:40] <eroomde> but it's up to me to taken break in that situation
[16:41] <martinus> FAQ time. ;)
[16:41] <eroomde> other people are happy to take the time
[16:41] <eroomde> if only people read FAQs!!!
[16:41] <eroomde> the number of question people ask that are answered on the ukhas wiki...
[16:41] <eroomde> actually it's been not too bad of late
[16:41] <martinus> I really should code my IRC bot to figure out if someone's asking a FAQ and automatically link them.
[16:41] <eroomde> tramway is properly getting into C and doing it the right way
[16:41] <eroomde> which is awesome
[16:42] <eroomde> tramvai*
[16:42] <eroomde> and a couple of other newer people like that are doing the same. and it's all good, their flights will be all the better for it
[16:42] <martinus> I'm sure El Reg's efforts have brought an influx of newbie questions (mine included).
[16:42] <eroomde> ibanezmatt asks sensible questions then goes away and tries to implement what he's learnt. which is wonderful
[16:43] <eroomde> el reg people are very welcome :)
[16:44] <eroomde> el reg and lester have been very good to ukhas
[16:44] <eroomde> more the merrier
[16:44] <mfa298> I think the coding issues we've had more recently are more general issues - like how to think about solving the problem.
[16:45] <martinus> Right, I'd better get back to thesis writing. :)
[16:45] <eroomde> a lot of the micro questions basically boil down to how to use timers and interrupts to get an rtty task and a gps-parse task running asynchronously
[16:46] <eroomde> it's just when things like the arduin abstract away timers and interrupts (to an extent) the solution to the problem seems much more nebulous to the person asking
[16:46] <mfa298> the last few weeks / months there seems to have been a lot more python on a pi type questions for making a tracker than arduino stuff
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[16:47] <eroomde> yes very true
[16:47] <LeoBodnar> timers and interrupts are fundamental to any MCU but unfortunately they are not required to make an LED blink
[16:47] <mfa298> although maybe I'm having worse memories of this having tried to help Bo
[16:48] <craag> LeoBodnar: I've noticed a lot of the mbed (ARM cortex m3/m0) stuff uses interrupts, including their LED blink example.
[16:49] <LeoBodnar> They are trying to force "good stuff" down your throat. Which is great.
[16:49] <craag> Now I think about it, I'm not sure I've come across a no-op sleep in any example code for it.
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[16:50] <LeoBodnar> Is it cooperative or pre-emptive system?
[16:51] <craag> Absolutely. I really can't believe I was still using sleep-based rtty this time last year - and not particularly proud of it either..
[16:52] <eroomde> you can go back to using sleep when you have an os
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[16:52] <eroomde> so for example we had tnkernel on an arm for badger2 (a flight computer)
[16:52] <eroomde> and you could sleep between rtty pulses, but during that that sleep it went off and di other stuff
[16:52] <craag> LeoBodnar: erm not 100% sure but I believe it's pre-emptive. callbacks and the like.
[16:53] <craag> eroomde: Yeah.. I mean arduino no-op sleep.
[16:53] <eroomde> yeah that's just fug
[16:53] <LeoBodnar> If you do infinite loop, do other tasks die?
[16:53] <eroomde> me? depends on the priority of the thread
[16:54] <LeoBodnar> craag: ^
[16:54] <craag> LeoBodnar: I don't believe so. Doing some research now..
[16:55] <LeoBodnar> just curious. Cooperative multitasking relies on the fact that the task returns control to OS from time to time.
[16:56] <LeoBodnar> Sleeping is one of them
[16:57] <LeoBodnar> Preemptive multitasking is OS descends on you and takes away control pretty much when it (OS) feels like it
[16:58] <craag> Ah yes this is micro-level C without an OS, so is not pre-emptive.
[16:58] <craag> For delays you set a timeout with a callback.
[16:58] <LeoBodnar> I5A@D
[16:58] <LeoBodnar> Gotcha
[16:58] <bertrik> Has anyone tried the direct modulation mode of the RFM22?
[16:59] <LeoBodnar> I think this is what most people use for RTTY?
[16:59] <bertrik> it uses the SDI pin (or a GPIO pin) as the modulation source
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[17:00] <bertrik> the example on the wiki seems to use an unmodulated carrier and program the frequency back and forth
[17:00] <craag> I think the pin is for it's built-in data mode?
[17:00] <craag> Which is far too fast baud rate.
[17:00] <craag> (For HAB use)
[17:00] <LeoBodnar> I have definitely used it in the past on Si4032 (is it the same as RFM22 sans RX?)
[17:01] <LeoBodnar> You can have direct control craag
[17:01] <craag> Oh ok, maybe the shift is the issue then?
[17:01] <LeoBodnar> Bypass packet handler and do an async control of the modulator yourself
[17:02] <bertrik> craag: minimum shift is 625 Hz IIUC
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> OOC and FSK only though
[17:02] <bertrik> so that's usable I think
[17:02] <craag> That's not bad.
[17:02] <craag> Good if you want to do 600 baud :)
[17:03] <LeoBodnar> The beauty is you can connect it directly to a HW UART output
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[17:08] <bertrik> this actually feels a lot more "natural" and easier to me than swinging the carrier frequency around
[17:09] <bertrik> I will try this once I get access to the RFM22
[17:10] <eroomde> you might be able to spread with them directly
[17:13] <enkidu> seems, that sp9uob was taken in jest stream
[17:13] <enkidu> jet*
[17:13] <eroomde> shame, he was a nice guy
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17874276
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[17:14] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yes
[17:15] <eroomde> there's a lot about it on the bbc if you want to have a browse
[17:15] <ibanezmatt13> yea, really interested
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[17:15] <eroomde> none of these people are actually doing anything
[17:15] <eroomde> you can see stuff i've built there :)
[17:16] <fsphil> most things on TV are pretend
[17:18] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, can amateurs use small rockets (that actually have real rocket fuel in)? :)
[17:18] <ibanezmatt13> I doubt it
[17:18] <eroomde> liquids fuelled rockets?
[17:18] <eroomde> yes
[17:18] <eroomde> nothing off the shelf really exists
[17:19] <eroomde> you'd have to build it yourself
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> What kind of permission would you have to get?
[17:19] <eroomde> and solid motors definitely- there's a whole hobby of high power rocketry
[17:19] <eroomde> usually there are clubs with monthly launch days
[17:19] <eroomde> they do all the permissions
[17:19] <eroomde> they find somewhere remote and get notams for you
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> that's cool
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> So what's a good rocket to make/
[17:20] <Mik_WD8MNV> there are hybreds that use N2O as an oxydizer
[17:20] <eroomde> that's up to you!
[17:20] <eroomde> i'm not so into the UKRA side of things
[17:20] <Mik_WD8MNV> the one that you can afford
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> lol, good point
[17:20] <eroomde> have just scratch-built a couple of high-power rockets before to launch at okra events but it's not really an ecosystem i want to live in
[17:21] <eroomde> ukra*
[17:21] <eroomde> just seems to be big fireworks
[17:21] <enkidu> I was thinking of double stage spacecraft: first, payload is taken by large balloon to 40km level, where air is less dense and also gravity is a little less (just a little)
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, are CUSF launching a proper one soon?
[17:22] <eroomde> 1 stages on balloons for orbit make somewhere between no sense and absolutely no sense
[17:22] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: 'proper'?
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> yes, proper :)
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> not a firework basically
[17:23] <eroomde> however a balloon would be interesting for just suborbitally hopping over the karman line
[17:23] <enkidu> eroomde: it is dependent on payload weight. If you want to put cubesat or so - you are doing first 40 kilometres for free
[17:23] <eroomde> it's not really
[17:23] <eroomde> sorry
[17:23] <eroomde> go and work out how much energy you say
[17:23] <eroomde> save*
[17:23] <eroomde> for a 1kg cubesat
[17:24] <enkidu> I should take a look at equations for mass derivative rocket
[17:24] <eroomde> the rocket equation is a good start
[17:24] <eroomde> basically alt makes no difference
[17:24] <eroomde> getting to say 400km is trivial
[17:24] <eroomde> it's all bout the tangential velocity
[17:25] <eroomde> which needs to be about 8000m/s
[17:25] <enkidu> so maybe a "space elevator" is better, but still expensive conception
[17:25] <Laurenceb__> it seems to work for n-prize
[17:26] <eroomde> the size of a rocket you need to get to 400km alt and 8000m/s is almost identical to the size of the rocket you need to get from 30km-400km and 8000m/s velocity
[17:26] <eroomde> except in the latter you have to take a whole lunch tower complex and suspend it from a balloon
[17:26] <Laurenceb__> i got a design that was <2Kg GLOW
[17:26] <eroomde> like i said, it makes absolutely no sense
[17:26] <Laurenceb__> heh
[17:26] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[17:26] <Laurenceb__> theres no way you could launch that to orbit from the ground
[17:26] <Laurenceb__> its like hitting a concrete wall
[17:27] <eroomde> enkidu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation
[17:27] <Laurenceb__> eroomde: spin stabilised launch
[17:28] <eroomde> i can see the tough experiment might look like it might work for a 2g payload or something
[17:28] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[17:28] <eroomde> i'm still unconvinced you could engineer such a thing
[17:28] <Laurenceb__> i did some modelling
[17:28] <Laurenceb__> above ~20gram it makes no sense really
[17:29] <Laurenceb__> but it ended up with some pretty cool performance for n-prize
[17:29] <Laurenceb__> i never quite worked out a sane way to reorientate the second stage
[17:30] <eroomde> well exactly
[17:30] <eroomde> that was actually precisely what i had in mind
[17:30] <eroomde> all the 'little' things like that that end up being 5kg of plumbing
[17:30] <Laurenceb__> early on i though of control moment gyro
[17:30] <Laurenceb__> but when you work it out properly it pretty impossible
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdLB7oGJu8
[17:31] <Laurenceb__> micro solenoid valve thing using butane or something would work
[17:31] <Laurenceb__> if you could make a good enough ~3gram valve
[17:31] <eroomde> maybe move some masses inside so it stops spinning about the long axis and spins about a different axis due to the instability thing about the middle exis
[17:32] <eroomde> y know, that middle MoI that ends up have an unstable solution when you bash do the differential ewuations
[17:32] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yes, go and enjoy that
[17:32] <eroomde> that's the hsotry of alan
[17:32] <eroomde> grab a beer
[17:32] <eroomde> i need to go to london
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:32] <eroomde> back later
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> see you
[17:32] <Laurenceb__> heh
[17:32] <Laurenceb__> "maybe move some masses inside so it stops spinning"
[17:32] <Laurenceb__> sounds easy
[17:32] <Laurenceb__> /jk
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[17:34] <Willdude123> Hi
[17:34] <fsphil> yo
[17:35] <fsphil> all quiet on 434.500
[17:36] <Upu> yup
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[17:44] <sv1ljj> Test!!!!
[17:46] <DL7AD> yes read you 5
[17:47] <sv1ljj> Good report!!!!
[17:47] <GMT> sv1ljj: your report is 599, how me?
[17:49] <sv1ljj> Ur 599 btu om
[17:49] F1VJQ (56d5302c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.213.48.44) joined #highaltitude.
[17:49] <F1VJQ> Good evening. Has anyone heard B-13 at all? No trace here all day
[17:51] <Upu> nope not yet
[17:51] <Upu> hoping it will resurface
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[17:52] <F1VJQ> Upu - I just hope that if I can see a signal , even no decode, at least it gives a sort of fix!
[17:52] <Upu> its doing a long swing out over the Atlantic, fsphil is our best hope
[17:52] <F1VJQ> yes, EI3KD in Cork may look this evening too
[17:53] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54889147.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> today, Germany failed
[17:53] <F1VJQ> I've been panning antenna from South through NW on and off all day!!
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[17:59] <F1VJQ> I don't know how good DominoEx16 is at weak sig decodes - if I find it, I'll find out!
[18:03] <bertrik_> F1VJQ: a lot better than RTTY as far as I understand
[18:04] <F1VJQ> If it is good, should decode down to the noise!
[18:05] <F1VJQ> I think my chance at hearing B-13 has passed ... it is probably 350km out over Biscay!!
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> :-\
[18:06] <Laurenceb__> it might be the battery has killed it
[18:06] <Laurenceb__> B-12 seemed to go dead for 2 days
[18:06] <F1VJQ> B-11 and 12 lasted a week at least!!
[18:06] <F1VJQ> solar in daytime
[18:07] <F1VJQ> I'll look back here later. Had enough of listening to noise all day!!
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> as I said germany failed today
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> bad result of federal elections
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> they're invading Poland again?
[18:09] <F1VJQ> LOL
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> or not quite that bad.
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> no, what you call Tories (I think) won
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> by far
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> some 43%
[18:10] EA5KGD (c2b7614c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.183.97.76) joined #highaltitude.
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> political party names across countries are fun.
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:10] <F1VJQ> EA5KGD Good evening. Any signals from B-13 on 434.500?
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> well we call them the Christian Democratic Union
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[18:11] <EA5KGD> Good evening. No signals from Valencia, right now.
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> well good thing is that the Free Democratic Party (which is like the Libs) fell below the 5% boundary xD
[18:12] <EA5KGD> I'm trying...
[18:12] <F1VJQ> EA5KGD it probably has passed over CT and into Atlantic heading north!
[18:12] <F1VJQ> But we never know... always worth a listen
[18:13] <F1VJQ> Needed ground trackers in N EA/CT
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[18:14] <EA5KGD> Maybe... Thanks for the info. What is the latest time of receipt?
[18:15] <F1VJQ> 00:52 this morning, south of Madrid
[18:16] <F1VJQ> forecast path today is here> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-13/
[18:17] <EA5KGD> OK. Since quite some time ...Hopefully get something.
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[18:20] <EA5KGD> Thanks Robin F1VJQ for forecast. Cheers from Valencia, Spain.
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[18:22] <F1VJQ> Thanks... good luck with tracking future balloons. Pass word round EA/CT amateurs!! 73
[18:22] <EA5KGD> I am in contact with EA5DOM and EA5CV here in the eastern part of Spain. 73, Enrique EA5KGD
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[18:26] <Mik_WD8MNV> maybe someone in eurozone need to write a magazine article on how to track balloons and what you need to do it. get a few more people interested
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[18:27] <F1VJQ> WD8MNV Yes, quite right! I was only thinking of that today, but I'm only new to this game!!! Licensed since 1966, but only a week or so looking to track balloons!
[18:28] <Mik_WD8MNV> what's the most popular electronics mag over there... elector?
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[18:30] <daveake> s/most popular/only one left/ ?
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[18:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All :-)
[18:32] <Mik_WD8MNV> is a RasPi powerfull enough to use as a stand alone SDR setup say w/ a dongle?
[18:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> here is corrected track of PICO6: http://goo.gl/maps/tuYAs
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[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> I am laughing so hard
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> the christian democratic union wins the elections with 43%
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> on the other hand, surveys say that 60% think it is time for a change in government
[18:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> and gps altitude vs pressure altitude plot: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico6/altitude-time.png
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> maybe elections are too difficult?
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it is too hard for elderly people to find the spot to tick "social democratic party of germany"?
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:36] <Will____> Just watching footage of today's MOD1 launch back now. Its great!
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[18:38] <F1VJQ> Mik- Others on here may have an answer.. I have no experience of RaspPi.
[18:38] <mfa298> Mik_WD8MNV: you can use rtl-tcp to stream to sdr# on another machine
[18:38] <Willdude123> Trying to do my French homework but I really can't take it seriously http://i.imgur.com/5675qtA.png
[18:38] <Mik_WD8MNV> i saw something that was IP based... but not stand alone
[18:39] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb
[18:39] <mfa298> it also looks like rtl_fm might work (I've had it work for broadcast fm but not much luck with anything else)
[18:39] <Mik_WD8MNV> will sdr# run under linux?
[18:40] <mfa298> I think you can use sdr# on linux (I think using mono) although I doubt it will run on a Rasp Pi (if that's what you were thinking)
[18:41] <Mik_WD8MNV> i'm trying to think of the cheapest way to set up a stand alone sdr... dongle, sdr# or something, mouse monitor. in the event people don't already have a computer
[18:42] <mfa298> rtl_fm seemed to be the most promising of what I've tried so far as totally standalone on the pi. It seems to have options for SSB/AM etc now.
[18:42] <Rebounder> Mik_WD8MNV: it runs... but not very good.. on rpi.. don't think it has enough power
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[18:43] <mfa298> there's also a websdr that mikestir is writing which might work on a pi with some optimisations - although that relies on another machine to control it from (via web) - http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio
[18:44] <Mik_WD8MNV> k... cause a Pi and a dongle could be had for like $50USD or so... and that's affordable.
[18:45] <mfa298> for the ukhas rtty/domex you also need a decoder for which dl-fldigi doesn't work on a pi (needs too mcuh cpu) although there's a java applet (same as one of the android apps) that appears to work (but I've never managed to get enough audio into it to test fully)
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[18:47] <Paul-M6PFX> evening all
[18:49] <Maxell> hay Paul-M6PFX
[18:50] <Rebounder> mfa298: mikes thing seemed promising, but haven't been able to get it running yet
[18:51] <mfa298> I've had it going on a pi but the audio is very choppy, I keep meaning to try it on something with a bit more cpu
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[18:51] <Mik_WD8MNV> maybe offload the audio... isn't there a decoder for that?
[18:52] <fsphil> still hearing nothing
[18:52] <fsphil> B-13 was on 434.500 exactly wasn't it?
[18:53] <Mik_WD8MNV> think so
[18:53] <fsphil> though it's dark here so if the battery has failed it might pass by silent
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[18:58] <fsphil> despite the fact that I know this is a dominoex payload, I keep thinking I hear rtty
[18:59] <daveake> rtty is a brain virus
[19:00] <daveake> I thought I could here it when chasing that mountain-landing payload in Spain ... what I actually heard was the wind whistling round the roof-rack
[19:00] <daveake> hear*
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> wind is just 50/500 7N2
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[19:01] <fsphil> guess I'll be hearing that next, trying to decode the wind coming down the chimney
[19:01] <daveake> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:01] <daveake> That could grate
[19:02] <Laurenceb__> i wonder if the battery has died and killed it
[19:02] <fsphil> smoke signals
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: good stuff here http://www.ri.cmu.edu/video_view.html?video_id=60&menu_id=387
[19:02] <fsphil> possible. it did seem to disappear very abruptly
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> Salesmen were tricked into another room and locked out
[19:02] <fsphil> though B-12 did the same thing and recovered
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> fsphil: was the signal lost last night?
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> or did it go out of range?
[19:03] <heathkid> hello everyone
[19:03] <fsphil> from what I read it stopped Laurenceb__
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> eek
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> doesnt sound right
[19:04] <Laurenceb__> is there a watchdog timer?
[19:04] <Laurenceb__> tho - if the MAX6 fired up badly it might explain it
[19:04] <fsphil> ea5cv B-13 copied at 00:51. Then lost; just some tones ear some periods. Looks
[19:04] <fsphil> batery too low. Sorry, 73 and GL
[19:04] <Willdude123> daveake, is it weird that I like the sound of rtty>
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> i see
[19:05] <fsphil> now it could be tx'ing during the day and it's just out of range
[19:05] <fsphil> the prediction did have it quite far of the coast here
[19:06] <Laurenceb__> does it measure battery voltage after the MAX6 relocks?
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> No, this is pretty much open circuit voltage under minimum load
[19:06] <heathkid> B-13 is taking a nice tour
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> If MAX6 indeed slips which I doubt
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> *sleeps
[19:09] <Laurenceb__> i remember B-11 had some very low voltages
[19:09] <Laurenceb__> like the MAX7 current peaks occasionally took it very low
[19:09] <Laurenceb__> so maybe that happened and killed it
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[19:17] <bertrik> cool, I think I already have an RFM22 to play with, but it's a 868 MHz variant :)
[19:17] <Willdude123> I need to write about a controversial political figure's breakfast for my French homework.
[19:17] <Willdude123> Hmm
[19:18] <Willdude123> Done Putin and Farage
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> discuss the German Federal Election in which the tories almost won an absolute majority
[19:21] <Laurenceb__> NO
[19:22] <Laurenceb__> i dont care
[19:22] <GMT> There was an Italian politician with a shady past - you could write about him ... he was Luigi Weetabix
[19:22] Action: Willdude123 actually googled that
[19:22] <Willdude123> Err.
[19:23] <Mik_WD8MNV> was bacon involved?
[19:23] <Willdude123> I lied.
[19:24] <Willdude123> The homework was to write about 3 famous peoples' breakfasts.
[19:24] <Mik_WD8MNV> i heard Sarah Palin has moose sauages for breakfast
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> David Akerman likes bacon, he's famous :/
[19:25] <Willdude123> Famous french nazis?
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[19:27] <GMT> Bill Clinton's breakfast involved Monica Lewinsky - can't get much more controversial
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> David Akerman likes bacon, his famous
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> works too
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:27] <Mik_WD8MNV> he's famous enough : )
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[19:28] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: I think inhibitor chemical sounds like a urban myth
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> *an
[19:28] <Willdude123> Is it pronounced EY-KER-MAN, EY-KER-MON, AH-KER-MAN or AH-KER-Mon?
[19:29] <Laurenceb__> i see
[19:29] <Laurenceb__> seems like you need to do a freezer tests
[19:29] <Laurenceb__> *test
[19:30] <Laurenceb__> at least we know it can be made to work - from B-11
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> Maybe it is just electrolyte saturating the anode/cathode porous layers
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> So after 5-6 cycles it reaches uniform density
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[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Watched the video Laurenceb__ ?
[19:57] <Laurenceb__> not all of it
[19:57] <Laurenceb__> working on my Thesis :P
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Are you not done with it yet?! :)
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[20:00] <Laurenceb__> its a 4 year endeavour
[20:01] <Laurenceb__> http://spacefellowship.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12610&sid=810bbde647cef0ee413f93cb952eb566
[20:02] <Laurenceb__> "Molesats is in the running." <- heh
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[20:09] <DL7AD> good evening
[20:10] <Willdude123> Evening DL7AD
[20:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: evening :-)
[20:12] <DL7AD> SP9UOB your balloon should be powered off right?
[20:12] <DL7AD> SP9UOB what was the cutoff voltage?
[20:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: tracker is dying at about 0.7V it hould be dead after 26 hours... but it was too cold - so i suspecting less than 20 hours
[20:16] <DL7AD> ah okay.... so there was no chance to get it back with the receivers in bulgaria, romania and greece
[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: next time i'll try add solars like Leo
[20:18] <DL7AD> and do not switch on the gps all the time! ;)
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: here is corrected track (was error in formating rule because of stupid compiler)
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[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://maps.google.pl/
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://goo.gl/maps/sSUyQ
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> argh ;-)
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[20:29] <mikestir> evening all. can anyone think of any other stuff I could put on this altitude infographic I've done for the school? http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/altitude_graphic_lin.png
[20:30] <mikestir> the idea is that it will be shown with the balloon's current altitude marked on it. Thought it would be more interesting than just showing a number.
[20:30] <adamgreig> the ISS ;)
[20:30] <adamgreig> http://xkcd.com/1162/
[20:30] <mikestir> yeah I did a version with a log scale that includes ISS
[20:30] <mikestir> and also the actual edge of space :0
[20:30] <mikestir> :)
[20:30] <adamgreig> :D
[20:30] <mikestir> the linear version is more intuitive though
[20:30] <adamgreig> http://xkcd.com/482/
[20:32] <mikestir> funny how there's an xkcd for everything
[20:32] <adamgreig> yup always
[20:33] <DL7AD> B-13 is coming tomorrow back to land! www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-13/NOAA.gif
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[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: what is QRG of B-13 ?
[20:47] <DL7AD> 434.500 mhz usb
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[20:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, we'll be listening tommorow :-)
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[20:56] <Laurenceb__> inux user spots someone running linux http://i.imgur.com/v7c1kEZ.gif
[20:59] <Mik_WD8MNV> make one like this http://i-hls.com/2013/09/mega-airship-back-in-the-air-in-california/
[21:04] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[21:05] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[21:06] <Upu> B-13 being RX'd ?
[21:07] <arko> did it slow down or has my tab not been refreshed?
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[21:20] <WillTablet> Hi
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[22:23] <enkidu> ps -A | grep li
[22:23] <enkidu> ffs
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[22:25] <fsphil> it's that window there to the right -->
[22:27] <enkidu> probably
[22:29] <enkidu> btw - I dont know, why there is no regular soundcard with good headphone amplifier and wide headroom...
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[22:33] <craag> *cough* pgrep *cough*
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[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[22:35] <craag> Hi Lunar_Lander
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[22:35] <craag> rather good thanks
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear that
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> what are you up to?
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[22:36] <craag> had a RAYNET event this morning where my netbook-with-a-thousand-wires APRS setup worked flawlessly.
[22:36] <craag> 2 of the tinytrak units couldn't get gps lock lol
[22:37] <fsphil> breadboard jobby?
[22:37] <craag> fsphil: No, was going to be with the radiometrix TXRX on the pi, but lost a lot of time with the dodgy usb on the pi.
[22:38] <craag> So it was usb gps, then 3 wires to the handheld.
[22:38] <craag> + power to handheld.
[22:38] <fsphil> usb does seem a weak point on the pi
[22:38] <craag> Yeah, it couldn't cope with usb gps and usb soundcard, kept resetting the soundcard connection and crashing the ax25 driver.
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:39] <craag> It's worked fine in the past with a uart gps
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> I am watching the election craag
[22:39] Action: fsphil is playing with kicad
[22:39] <fsphil> failing to add an 0805 capacitor...
[22:40] <craag> Lunar_Lander: oh cool, riveting stuff :P
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> damn http://wahl.tagesschau.de/wahlen/2013-09-22-BT-DE/charts/ergebnis-DE-NW/chart_2465254.shtml
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> that guy won by 3 votes?
[22:40] <craag> wow thats close
[22:42] <craag> I'm off, gn all!
[22:43] <fsphil> nite!
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> night craag
[22:44] Action: Laurenceb__ is playing with 802.11 monitor mode
[22:45] <Laurenceb__> this is moderately scary
[22:45] <Laurenceb__> so far ive made a script to detect irc users
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[22:45] <adamgreig> lol, welcome to 2006? or there was the big faff about this in cafes in 2011 or something
[22:45] <adamgreig> people were sniffing session tokens left and right
[22:45] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[22:45] <adamgreig> someone made a firefox extension
[22:46] <adamgreig> you could just click and be logged in to twitter/facebook/whatever
[22:46] <Laurenceb__> but that was bypassing the encryption
[22:46] <Laurenceb__> im playing with packet timing/size
[22:46] <Laurenceb__> irc is small packets at a few hz
[22:46] <Laurenceb__> you can just scan the channels to seach for it
[22:46] <mfa298> ad-hoc mode is more fun, I have vlc showing a nice dark stream which should be the view out a window - Now it needs some range testing (although might need a better wifi card first)
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[22:47] <Laurenceb__> im trying to make a passive indoor location system
[22:47] <Laurenceb__> its my no longer secret business idea
[22:47] <adamgreig> because google and apple have already done it? >_>
[22:48] <Laurenceb__> wonder if i can get it work on transcent SD cards
[22:48] <Laurenceb__> have they?!
[22:48] <craag> and soo many other people..
[22:48] <adamgreig> yea google maps does indoor location by wifi triangulation
[22:48] <adamgreig> esp in like, malls and stuff
[22:48] <craag> (I build wifi monitoring devices for work)
[22:48] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[22:49] <mfa298> tracking bluetooth devices is good for locating people as well
[22:49] <Laurenceb__> im pretty sure its all just signal strength right?
[22:49] <craag> signal strength is easy
[22:49] <craag> the bug guns use packet timing I believe
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[22:49] <Laurenceb__> im playing with modified atheros driver, but its secret secret :P
[22:49] <craag> *big guns
[22:50] <Laurenceb__> is anyone actually shipping it?
[22:50] <mfa298> there's even stuff out there for tracking people (anonymously) by traffic from mobile phones.
[22:50] <Laurenceb__> packet timing?
[22:51] <WillTablet> I was thinking the other day, what's the actual point in ham radio?
[22:51] <craag> Laurenceb__: THat's what they say, not sure how, but you'd need custom hardware at least.
[22:51] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[22:51] <Laurenceb__> thats kind of what im doing
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> craag, still on?
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> cool :P
[22:51] <Laurenceb__> tho its just my laptop
[22:51] <craag> Laurenceb__: google 'DNA Tracker'
[22:51] <mfa298> WillTablet: there are lots of points to it (all though some are more relevant in other countries)
[22:52] <WillTablet> It's an awesome hobby
[22:52] <WillTablet> ATV looks awesome but is expensive and I don't know anyone involved woith it
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah ATV is really expensive
[22:52] <mfa298> In some places it's used for emergency comms (like when all the power/phone networks are down)
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> also needs ariane 5 to launch
[22:53] <WillTablet> Ah OK.
[22:53] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Noticed wifi monitoring and thought I'd chime in, anyway really should go to bed now :P
[22:53] <WillTablet> Anyone here know much about ATV?
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:53] <mfa298> and lots of different types of experimentation.
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah ATV supplies ISS
[22:53] <WillTablet> Can people use normal televison sets to rx analog atv?
[22:54] <craag> WillTablet: I do. It's a steep curve of quite expensive kit tbh, and you really need a mast, not one of the easiest bits to get into.
[22:54] <Laurenceb__> craag: interesting
[22:54] <Laurenceb__> looks like custom hardware
[22:54] <WillTablet> craag awesome
[22:54] <Laurenceb__> im trying to do it with custom drivers
[22:54] <WillTablet> But it's expensive :-(
[22:54] <WillTablet> What equipment could one use to receive it?
[22:54] <Laurenceb__> but if its widely available already...
[22:55] <mfa298> WillTablet: unfortunately a lot of hobbies can get expensive when you really get into them
[22:55] <craag> Laurenceb__: Cool, I've done a lot with standard wifi kit and monitor mode.
[22:55] <craag> Nothing more than that, and the DNA tracker kit is pricey!
[22:56] <WillTablet> Such as HAB
[22:56] <Paul-M6PFX> The ATV stuff just needs a PCI DVB-S card, Sat Dish with LNB but also a downconverter, it will also work with a FTA sat box. I think the really expensive part is a rotator to track it, that will cost as much as all the other items together
[22:56] <craag> Anyway properly gn now...
[22:56] <Paul-M6PFX> I'm not really that interested to view a black image, and then the odd broadcast that lasts 5minutes
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> cya
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[22:59] <joeman> hello
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[23:02] <mfa298> hi joeman
[23:02] <joeman> gday
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[23:46] <Brunzmeflugen> Anybody in the US? I got a question regarding licenses
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[23:50] <SpeedEvil> there are us people here
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> I don't know about right now...
[23:54] <KT5TK> Brunzmeflugen: What question? Ham licenses?
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[23:56] <Brunzmeflugen> Yeah, I'm new to this. Do you need a license to purchase and operate a reciever or does the license just govern transmission of signals?
[23:58] <KT5TK> No license needed for a receiver. (as long as it can only receive broadcast and ham bands)
[23:58] <KT5TK> Ham license is only needed for transmitting
[00:00] --- Mon Sep 23 2013