[00:16] <DL7AD> good evening
[00:16] <DL7AD> or good morning :)
[00:22] <Maxell> oh hi
[00:22] <DL7AD> b-13 is at the incorrect location on the map
[00:22] <DL7AD> hi Maxell
[00:25] <Maxell> DL7AD: it's doing it's logging feature.
[00:26] <Maxell> Every two hours it sends back his older locations
[00:26] <DL7AD> yes i know and i try to get someone who can fix this :)
[00:26] <Maxell> :P
[00:26] <Maxell> by sending the day
[00:26] <Maxell> afaik
[00:26] <arko> for people who play KSP
[00:26] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mXTxQko-JH0
[00:27] <Maxell> 0.1 elevation still amazes me
[00:27] <arko> very neat glimpse into physics engine, etc
[00:28] <Maxell> $$B-13,179,002421,49.4222,4.2282,7379,5,-21,3.26,0*04a6
[00:28] <Maxell> $$B-13,180,002722,49.3998,4.2511,7365,6,-21,3.24,0*a615
[00:28] <Maxell> :)
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> I was about to say woooo!
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> but that's just a woo!
[00:29] <Maxell> :p
[00:29] <Maxell> PE2G doing amazing "Receivers: PE2G, F5APQ, RevSpace"
[00:29] <DL7AD> yes
[00:30] <DL7AD> F5APQ was nearly missing it. so i wrote him a mail
[00:32] <Maxell> new locs incoming
[00:48] <DL7AD> got a receiver in turin (sdr)
[00:50] <Maxell> yeah, we should look into remote SDRs
[00:52] <Maxell> Keep track of the ones that have been reported to work with HABs
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[00:55] <DL7AD> http://radio.it/PROJECTS/spectra/Pino/index.html
[01:04] <Maxell> R.I.P. B-13
[01:04] <Maxell> Time: 2013-09-21 23:59:42
[01:04] <Maxell> Lsat time since Rx: 26m 18s
[01:05] <Maxell> $$B-13,184,003754,49.3204,4.3293,7312,6,-21,3.29,0*b6b5
[01:06] <Maxell> Hmm, Battery: 3.36 V...
[01:07] <Maxell> I Rx'd 3.29 volts, right?
[01:08] <DL7AD> it went out of range
[01:08] <DL7AD> not because of battery i think
[01:09] <Maxell> Tracker tells me "Time: 2013-09-21 23:59:42"
[01:09] <Maxell> I'm listed in the recieved list.
[01:10] <DL7AD> do you really mean the battery is completely empty?
[01:14] <Maxell> All of a sudden three trackers do not get any more updates.
[01:14] <Maxell> F5APQ is well in range...
[01:21] <DL7AD> we you are right...
[01:21] <DL7AD> yes*
[01:29] <Maxell> Sleep well!
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[02:35] <heathkid> hello everyone
[02:43] <DL7AD> good morning
[02:43] <DL7AD> hi F6AIU
[02:43] <heathkid> not really morning here... lol
[02:44] <heathkid> but I hope it will be
[02:45] <F6AIU> Tks to DL7AD for getting me out of bed!
[02:47] <DL7AD> F6AIU is this something negativ? ^^
[03:07] <F6AIU> Oh no Sven! B13 bearing down on me
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[05:26] <DL7AD> good morning.... anyone listening?
[05:26] <x-f> good morning, DL7AD
[05:27] <mclane> good morning DL7AD
[05:27] <x-f> F6AIU is listening, the position is updating
[05:27] <DL7AD> F6AIU was listening for B-13 the half night. we will lose it, when it will go out of range
[05:28] <DL7AD> so i organized TWO streams in turin
[05:28] <DL7AD> http://radio.it/PROJECTS/spectra/Pino/index.html
[05:28] <DL7AD> http://radio.it/PROJECTS/spectra/Albugnano/index.html
[05:28] <DL7AD> keep this in mind. ^^ because i wanna sleep now
[05:29] <x-f> you were up all night for B-13? :)
[05:29] <DL7AD> yes i tried to wake up F6AIU
[05:30] <DL7AD> F6AIU was listening, the failing, so i wrote another mail to him. he got it and fixed the problem ^^
[05:30] <DL7AD> *then failing
[05:30] <x-f> last update is 3 minutes ago, it's fine now
[05:30] <DL7AD> x-f can you open the streams?
[05:31] <x-f> loading..
[05:32] <x-f> DL7AD, do you know the prediction, where it is heading to?
[05:32] <DL7AD> second....
[05:33] <Upu> so B-13 just stipped TXing ?
[05:33] <x-f> DL7AD, yeah, i got the sound from Pino
[05:33] <x-f> Upu, "last" position on the map is wrong, B-13 itself is fine
[05:33] <tweetBot> @jamescoxon: B-13 - trans-european balloon floater, 434.500MHz USB DominoEX16, follow on http://t.co/6PpAhXUoMd #ukhas #hamr
[05:34] <Upu> ah ok so its still txing ?
[05:35] <x-f> yep
[05:35] <Upu> cooll
[05:35] <Upu> fsphil can fix that when he wakes up
[05:35] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19533_trj001.gif
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[05:35] <x-f> thanks, DL7AD
[05:42] <mclane> DL7AD can b13 be heared via I1YRB already?
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[05:48] <DL7AD> mclane no not yet
[05:48] <DL7AD> but you can try later
[05:50] <DL7AD> rx pino has an altitude of 650 m AMSL and a discone antenna.
[05:51] <DL7AD> usually discones have loss :/
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[05:54] <DL7AD> http://radio.it/PROJECTS/spectra/Pino/index.html http://radio.it/PROJECTS/spectra/Albugnano/index.html Streams on 434.500 USB near Turin.
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[06:46] <mattltm> FLdigi is driving me nuts!
[06:46] <mattltm> Wprking fine yesterday and now ist wont control the radio!
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[06:59] <LeoBodnar> good morning
[07:00] <mclane> good morning LeoBodnar
[07:05] <chris_4x1rf> GM!
[07:06] <mclane> I am trying to receive B13 through the italian remote radio, but nothing
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[07:08] <mclane> can someone provide a wav file so that I get an impression what kind of signal I have to look for? I have never heared a domino ex
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[07:10] <gonzo_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3o0dWbvhvs
[07:10] <mclane> thanks
[07:10] <gonzo_> though there is also some psk31 in the background of that demo
[07:18] <f5vnf> how bo i change the tracker heading to B13 from habe
[07:18] <f5vnf> do
[07:20] <gonzo_> do DL Client>refresh fklight docs
[07:20] <gonzo_> then you should be able to use the pulldown menu in the 'Flight' box
[07:21] <gonzo_> sellect B18 and press the auto-configure button
[07:21] <f5vnf> thanks
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[07:51] <x-f> nice, DL7AD went to bed and now started tracking from Italy
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[08:05] <F1VJQ> Good morning all. Anyone know the B-13 channel and RTTY characteristics?
[08:07] <x-f> F1VJQ, 434.500 MHz, and it's DominoEX16, not RTTY (dl-fldigi will autoconfigure it for you, just choose B-13 from the list)
[08:07] <F1VJQ> OK Thanks - Not sure whether it may be in range.. I'll look!
[08:09] <Upu> look for the pips
[08:10] <Upu> only transmits every 5 mins but you can see the pips every 3 seconds
[08:12] <F1VJQ> OK thanks.. it may be too far from Atlantic coast looking at last position on near.us
[08:12] <x-f> predicted trajectory - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19533_trj001.gif
[08:15] <F1VJQ> That's handy ... I'll keep a lookout. The LOHAN flight was -6kHz when I found the sigs at about 700km range!
[08:16] <F1VJQ> They didn't decode, but nice to see ....
[08:20] <F1VJQ> I've set RX on SCAN from 434.490 to 434.510 and will turn beam slowly
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[08:24] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ: B-13 should be exactly East from you now
[08:24] <LeoBodnar> Over Grenoble now
[08:25] <F1VJQ> Thanks Leo... nothing heard yet... I assume it's a bit too far
[08:25] <G0TDJ_AFK> Morning :-)
[08:25] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[08:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: GM - I managed to track B-13 quite a way into France but then signal dropped out.
[08:26] <F1VJQ> It's 518km from here
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> It is making a circle around you F1VJQ :)
[08:27] <F1VJQ> G0TDJ Steve, hoe close was the frequency to 500?
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> Morning G0TDJ_Steve - it was quite a range!
[08:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Pretty much bang on
[08:27] <F1VJQ> OK
[08:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar: Yes, I thought my antenna did very well :-)
[08:28] <F1VJQ> I recon JN25VC for locator!!
[08:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have listened this morning but nothing heard
[08:31] <F1VJQ> I think at 7km high, 500km may not be line of sight
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[08:32] <DL1SGP> Good morning!
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[08:37] <F1VJQ> F6AIU due south of you - Grenoble
[08:37] <F1VJQ> B-13 that is... JN25vc approximately
[08:38] <DL1SGP> Bonjour F1VJQ, bon week-end et bonne ecoute
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[08:41] Nick change: ollipillo_ -> ollipillo
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[08:42] <F1VJQ_> test
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[08:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats very strange, every GT around Europe seems to be tuned to 434.500+/- !
[08:44] <F1VJQ_> Wish I could help with reception! Nil here so far!
[08:44] <F1VJQ_> I don't know why the balloon icon isn't following the last spot
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[08:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its the LOG records sent every few hours (2 ?) the snus copies and replots
[08:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Are the Logs still sent every 2 hours ?
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[08:48] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: only when the battery is full (4v) this time
[08:48] <LeoBodnar> Because they are quite long and will kill the battery during the night
[08:48] <F1VJQ_> Good thinking!!
[08:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Makes sense!
[08:49] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> morning
[08:49] <F1VJQ_> Back shortly.... another cuppa required!
[08:49] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> you were probably already answering leo, no B13 or power save?
[08:50] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> just joined the chat....
[08:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wonder if daveake is still in Spain and can receive B-13 ?
[08:53] <F1VJQ_> The predicted flight path is made for him!
[08:53] <F1VJQ_> But it circles me at "just out of range" :-(
[08:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-13/B-13_201309210954.jpg
[08:53] <daveake> daveake is on way to airport
[08:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ideal from the aircraft then to Rx B-13 ;-)
[08:54] <daveake> :-)
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> I like the true curvature of the Earth Geoff-G8DHE :)
[08:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'm sure they will want to help, and won'r believe your abiut to bring the lane down!
[08:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> *plane
[08:55] <daveake> I foresee no problems with that
[08:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just going to plot the EPT output see what data there is
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[08:58] <Upu> daveake is on a plane now
[08:59] <daveake> Soon
[09:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Last record I saw was 23:41.24 last UK station to hear it.
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[09:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not to bad 316Km range
[09:07] <F1VJQ_> I'm over 500km ... still no copy
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[09:09] <mclane> yea, my first Domino decode!! (using the I1YRB receiver
[09:09] <SP9UOB> morning ALL
[09:10] <Upu> hey Tom how did your launch go last night ?
[09:10] <SP9UOB> x-f could You reset old data points for SP9UOB? I want to compare pressure altitude and GPS readings :-)
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[09:11] <SP9UOB> Upu: unfortunetly binbag was bursted at about 15 km
[09:11] <Upu> what did you launch ? a bin bag full of hot air ?
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[09:13] <fsphil> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/record-daltitude-pour-un-ballon-sonde.html
[09:13] <fsphil> anyon see that?
[09:13] <SP9UOB> UPU: tube from 3 bin-bags with hydrohen :-)
[09:14] <fsphil> 53.7km is the record to beat now :)
[09:14] <F1VJQ_> fsphil remarkable!
[09:14] <fsphil> it is
[09:15] <fsphil> that really is near space
[09:17] <Upu> Jaxa again
[09:17] <Upu> we should get them on here :)
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[09:20] <LeoBodnar> what do they use for the envelope?
[09:21] <F1VJQ_> Leo I wonder if Mylar is strong enough?
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[09:24] <F1VJQ_> It would be useful if GTs reported actual freq of reception! I'm tuning and may miss the 3 sec blip!
[09:25] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> if I am not mistaken, the TX is GPS locked, so you will not need adjustments
[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do others find the Audio level from Crema is very low ?
[09:25] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> I am on 434.500 and 750Hz for the blips
[09:25] <F1VJQ_> good heavens!! GPS lock ?
[09:26] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> but the last couple of Hz is down to the XO of your TRX
[09:26] <F1VJQ_> I'm happy about my VFO!
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[09:26] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> Leo can clarify ;)
[09:26] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> and I'm happy with my TCXO in the IC-910
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[09:27] <Maxell> ohhi
[09:27] Action: Maxell goes in backlog read-modus, to see what happend with B-13
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[09:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Elsworthy = North London?
[09:38] <LeoBodnar> I have used GPS frequency lock on earlier flights but at the moment have stopped doing it. TCXO signals keeps pretty good stability within +-100Hz and GPS lock needs extra GPS on time. I am having a fight with GPS now so lock is off at the moment.
[09:39] <Maxell> how come other flights drift so much?
[09:39] <LeoBodnar> Maxell: did you read telemetry in the log?
[09:39] <Maxell> Your trackers never seem to drift.
[09:40] <F1VJQ_> Maxell drift is due to temp... and it is cold up there!!
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[09:40] <Maxell> loIRC backlog :P
[09:41] <LeoBodnar> For telemetry: http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/ae2ef66e91fd5a107444b2e43dd1f6ad
[09:41] <Maxell> s/loIRC/IRC/
[09:41] <F1VJQ_> although showing 10C at altitude atm
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[09:42] <Maxell> F1VJQ_: yes, I've launched HABs myself. It gets cold up there.
[09:42] <Maxell> But how does LeoBodnar prevent this?
[09:42] <Maxell> His insulation is heatshrink
[09:43] <F1VJQ_> Insulation is all!
[09:44] <LeoBodnar> I don't use any insulation any more.
[09:44] <mfa298> Maxell: one of the key differences is TCXO rather than XO
[09:44] <F1VJQ_> TCXO must use more power to heat the oven?
[09:46] <Maxell> Ah
[09:46] <Maxell> Why didn't we had a TCXO on the tracker?!
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> It's temeprature compensated, not oven controlled F1VJQ_
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> SOme of them are as simple as cap+resistor with computer selected tempco
[09:48] <F1VJQ_> OK
[09:48] <F1VJQ_> careful balance of temp coefficients
[09:49] <LeoBodnar> I didn't mean you have to do it yourself (but I am sure it is possible) - just buy a TCXO module
[09:51] <F1VJQ_> Ah, I though you did all the selecting!!
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[10:00] <fsphil> the foils don't go up as high as a latex flight too, they won't get as cold
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[10:00] <LeoBodnar> Maybe you can do manual compensation if you have very unique crystal freq that can't be had in TCXO module. Like DVB dongles for example lol
[10:01] <Maxell> hey those are quite stable once they warm up
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for cleaning up fsphil . Adding date for this flight required major re-write of the code (in assembly) so I'l save it for the next one.
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> Mine picks up any draft of air in the house. I have replaced its onboard DC-DC converter with LDO so it heats up like a stove.
[10:03] <fsphil> np LeoBodnar -- is it sending a log this time?
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> Only during the social hours :)
[10:04] <fsphil> excellent lol
[10:04] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: what transmitter is in the B-10 series?
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> When the battery is full and the Sun is up
[10:04] <Maxell> Can't find it on your site
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> It's Si446x series I use Si4460
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> Or Si4060, no RX on this PCB
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[10:06] <Hix> testing off Cape Verde Upu ;)
[10:06] <Maxell> ah, http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si4063-60.pdf
[10:06] <Upu> hmm ?
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[10:06] <Hix> habduino
[10:07] <Upu> odd thought I was in offline mode
[10:07] <Upu> odd x 2 though I had filters to stop that
[10:08] <Hix> :)
[10:08] <Hix> nice place to test though
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[10:08] <Hix> 3/4 Wave Watson just turned up. Cool to see how it fares
[10:09] <Upu> which model is that ?
[10:09] <Hix> WSM-270 magmount
[10:09] <Hix> kinda figure it should have a little gain for airband too
[10:10] <Hix> Once the new dampers are fitted to the car it'll undergo chase test speed trials too.
[10:10] <Upu> thats 5/8ths isn't it ?
[10:11] <Hix> 2m 1.4 70cm 3/4 according to specs
[10:11] <Upu> hm ok
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[10:19] <Hix> ahh there's a WGM-270 0.8m Upu that could have been what you were thinking of
[10:20] <mfa298> looking at the length of the 270 (460mm) that would suggest a 5/8 for 70cms
[10:20] <Upu> possibly
[10:20] <mfa298> and a slightly short 1/4 for 2m
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[10:21] <Hix> to be fair the WSM-270 is quoted as 46cm whereas I calc it so it should be 49cm
[10:22] <mfa298> I ignored the base loading coil and base size in those calcs (but i think they should roughly cancel each other out)
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[10:23] <Hix> either way - its going to be easier to mount to a car than a 7 element Yagi ;)
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[10:24] <mfa298> and more useful on the car.
[10:25] <mfa298> W&S say element length of 46cm so that might match your measured 49cm.
[10:25] <Hix> not measured just a rough calculation
[10:25] <mfa298> or was your 49cm your calc for 1/4 at 2m
[10:26] <Hix> 3/4 @70cm based on 435 iirc
[10:26] <Hix> yeah 492mm
[10:26] <mfa298> 3/4 isn't far off 5/8
[10:27] <F1VJQ_> Anyone know the line of sight distance at 500km?
[10:27] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> @Maxell, the other radio's drift because they were never designed for frequency stability. They are off-the-shelf stuff
[10:27] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> Leo built his own TX and has control over many design parameters
[10:29] <F1VJQ_> I mean line of sight at 9km high!!
[10:29] <Hix> Right, I've put it off for long enough this morning, time to go and do battle with the car. Time for damper change
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[10:29] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> @Hix: good battle, safe return
[10:29] <bertrik> F1VJQ_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-of-sight_propagation has a couple of quick approximations
[10:29] <Upu> F1VJQ you're not going to get that balloon I think I got it out to about 350km last night at that alt
[10:29] <Upu> PE2G was around the same
[10:30] <Maxell> Wouter-[PA3WEG]: yeah, the pico trackers we have https://revspace.nl/Pico_Trackers
[10:30] <Maxell> require RFM22B...
[10:31] <PE2G> Yeah, here I got my first decodes: http://s9.postimg.org/pllxgl8mn/Screen1100.jpg
[10:31] <F1VJQ_> Upu yes, I rather thought it would stay out of range!!! Aargh!!
[10:31] <Upu> I still have some Maxell
[10:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys
[10:31] <Upu> hi Steve
[10:32] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> smells like EAGLE PCB design ;)
[10:32] <Maxell> Upu: yeah we are going to see if we can do DomEX on it
[10:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Quick question about tomorrows (hopeful) launch - Elsworthy = North London?
[10:32] <Upu> unless you can fiddle with it you can't
[10:32] <Upu> the minimum step size is about 150hz
[10:32] <Upu> Elsworth, Cambridge
[10:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers Anthony
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[10:33] <Maxell> cool
[10:34] <F1VJQ_> Bertrik yes... looks to be about 350km at that height - I'm 150km short!
[10:35] <Wouter-[PA3WEG]> I might pop in and out of the chat, cleaning up the CanSat competition cable spaghetti
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[10:35] <PE2G> F1VJQ_: What's your rx antenna height?
[10:36] <Maxell> Upu: hmm, not useful for DomEX hmm
[10:36] <Upu> you can fiddle with the crystal
[10:36] <F1VJQ_> PE2G 9m agl and 70m asl
[10:36] <Upu> but tbh use the new NTX2B
[10:37] <Maxell> :P
[10:37] <Maxell> how do I put that on pico tracker?!
[10:37] <Upu> well you can decase it
[10:37] <F1VJQ_> PE2G - I will keep an eye on it... will be in / out of here for a while
[10:37] <Upu> which is something I'm going to look at
[10:37] <Maxell> :O
[10:37] <Upu> and you can do domex with one resistor
[10:38] <F1VJQ_> I'm waiting for it to head west!!
[10:39] Nick change: F1VJQ_ -> F1VJQ
[10:39] <Maxell> "Other frequency variants can be programmed to individual
[10:39] <Maxell> customer requirements in the range 425MHz to
[10:39] <Maxell> 480MHz"
[10:40] <Maxell> Anyone looked into doing this manually?
[10:41] <PE2G> F1VJQ: Your optical horizon to B-13 at current alt is 370 km, radio horizon may be tens of kms more...
[10:41] <SP9UOB> Upu: can You put SR0FLY-11 from APRS on the map, please ?
[10:41] <F1VJQ> yes, on the edge!! I've seen some traces that are on the noise in waterfall... the spacing looked right... no decode though
[10:42] <Upu> yep 1 sec SP9UOB
[10:42] <bertrik> F1VJQ: have you disabled squelch in dl-fldigi?
[10:42] <Upu> done
[10:43] <SP9UOB> thank You
[10:43] <bertrik> (the SQL in the bottom right)
[10:43] <WillTablet> Hi Upu
[10:43] <Upu> hi Will
[10:44] <F1VJQ> bertrik yes
[10:46] <Maxell> Upu: is the NTX2B something they made for HABs?
[10:46] <Upu> no
[10:46] <Maxell> I'm looking into it and I see only HAB stuff
[10:47] <Maxell> and no details on manufactures page
[10:47] <Upu> but features it has are great for what we do
[10:47] <Maxell> except one post about HAB
[10:47] <Upu> its not officially been released yet
[10:47] <Maxell> and datasheet
[10:47] <Maxell> ah, ok
[10:47] <Upu> yeah
[10:47] <Upu> its a straight swap for the NTX2
[10:47] <Upu> but with a TCXO
[10:47] <Maxell> August 1 2013 is pretty new
[10:48] <Upu> Dave flew a pair of prototypes
[10:48] <Maxell> ooh sexy
[10:48] <Upu> didn't drift at all
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[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is supposed to be a firstimer launching with the callsign MOD1 today from Coventry area.
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[10:52] <Maxell> sounds sexy Upu
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[10:55] <LeoBodnar> Upu: has somebody flown Habduino in Spain recently?
[10:56] <Upu> yeah
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[11:07] <x-f> ZINOO launch in a few minutes, btw
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[11:08] <chrisg7ogx> I'm going to leavr my beam pointing ENE in case B13 has noved further North
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[11:10] <craag> mfa298: fsphil: GPS part 1 & 2 out of 4 are up on BATC.
[11:10] <craag> Rest will follow later today.
[11:10] <fsphil> amazing craag, thanks
[11:11] <fsphil> 4 parts.. yikes :)
[11:11] <craag> was it that long?
[11:11] <fsphil> 2 hours I think
[11:12] <craag> wow ok
[11:12] <mfa298> nice
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[11:12] <mfa298> I think it covered most of the time we were doing the foundation practicals and half the exam
[11:12] <chrisstubbs> craag, are they all at a slight angle from the box?
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[11:13] <craag> chrisstubbs: I think so... I'm not really anything to do with it. Passing along message from Noel G8GTZ
[11:14] <craag> But I think he had one of the cameras fail
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[11:14] <chrisstubbs> Ah darn :(
[11:14] <chrisstubbs> I thought this was footage from your tablet?
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[11:15] <craag> chrisstubbs: No, I only got the morning as I was doing Foundation License stuff outside in the afternoon
[11:15] <craag> Will get around to uploading those at some point.
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[11:16] <mfa298> I did have a thought after about the recording stopping on the tablet, I wondered if it was stopping when the video had used something like 1/2 the free space.
[11:17] <bertrik> Upu: to do domex, you can use the same kind of circuit with three resistors as used for rtty, as shown in http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 right? (but with different resistor values)
[11:17] <craag> Yeah probably. It wasn't really designed for recording that kind of thing!
[11:17] <fsphil> you also need analogue or pwm output bertrik
[11:18] <bertrik> except you use a PWM pin instead of a digital out, and perhaps some filtering
[11:18] <craag> Following the server revamp, we'll be revamping the BATC broadcast kit as well.
[11:18] <bertrik> ah right
[11:18] <craag> Hopefully going HD with a PC capable of H.264
[11:18] <fsphil> craag: hdmi > h.264 capture card
[11:18] <craag> yeah
[11:18] <fsphil> you can get hdmi <> cat5 adaptors
[11:19] <craag> getting away from composite video :|
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[11:19] <fsphil> so you can run cable easily enough
[11:19] <fsphil> aye
[11:19] <mfa298> as backup next year maybe we should take a composite cam and VCR.
[11:19] <fsphil> the trick will be mixing the h.264 with other sources
[11:19] <fsphil> annoyingly my old canon HD camera seems to have developed another fault
[11:19] <fsphil> it crashes after about 5 minutes of use
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[11:20] <fsphil> anyone want a cheap Canon HF200? :)
[11:20] <craag> fsphil: That sucks. corrupt firmware flash
[11:20] <craag> ?
[11:21] <fsphil> hmm possible
[11:21] <mfa298> doing a set of cheap cameras for hdmi out should be easy - PiCam + Pi
[11:21] <craag> My brother has a nice full-frame HD canon SLR with HDMI output which would be ideal.
[11:21] <mfa298> although might want some better optics
[11:21] <fsphil> I'm gonna use a picam to stream my next launch
[11:22] <fsphil> speaking off, could that be done with batc craag?
[11:22] <craag> I'm planning to use one to stream my next launch, from the balloon :)
[11:22] <craag> yes..
[11:22] <craag> We can give you the UKHAS accoutn details
[11:22] <fsphil> the viewer won't mind being given HD video?
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[11:23] <fsphil> I'll reduce the resolution a bit
[11:23] <craag> Nope. I've just been playing with 1080p30 streaming this morning!
[11:23] <fsphil> does it display it ok?
[11:23] <craag> Seems to!
[11:23] <fsphil> ah fantastic
[11:23] <fsphil> depends on the bandwidth at the site
[11:23] <craag> If you have the upload and a decent pc/laptop
[11:24] <fsphil> I might try a lower resolution but a higher frame rate
[11:24] <craag> It wasn't too bad on about 200kbps H.264 tbh. but a lot of movement would change that drastically.
[11:24] <fsphil> 50 fps is nice
[11:24] <craag> haha
[11:24] <craag> not sure the viewer supports that :P
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[11:24] <fsphil> will have a play with that later if you're about
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[11:25] <craag> Would this be from windows or linux?
[11:25] <fsphil> the pi
[11:25] <fsphil> so linux
[11:25] <craag> oh ok
[11:25] <craag> sorry, missed that bit
[11:25] <craag> I've been trying to get it working from the pi
[11:26] <craag> keep getting 'Connection Authorisation Failed'
[11:26] <craag> just need the right incantation!
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[11:27] <Sir_> :)
[11:27] <fsphil> it's a flash media server isn't it?
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[11:28] <craag> yep
[11:29] <craag> just gonna boot up the pi and get you what I've been using so far
[11:29] <craag> I needed a newer version off fmpeg, so compiled one from the latest tarball (2.0.1?)
[11:29] <chrisstubbs> Did dave stream to BATC from his pi when it landed?
[11:29] <craag> chrisstubbs: Yep, that's what I'm planning to try again :)
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[11:30] <chrisstubbs> Cool
[11:30] <fsphil> I've had an idea of doing HD streaming over wifi for the launch
[11:30] <F1VJQ> Has B-13 been heard in past hour?
[11:30] <fsphil> with a good antenna might get a few km out of it
[11:32] <craag> Yeah the american guys did it with a dish and 1W I think, got 9km or something
[11:32] <mfa298> would be nice if you could get a one way wifi connection going without having to send anything the other way. I've managed to see wireless networks over ~4km but not good enough to associate
[11:32] <craag> Hand-steered dish though!
[11:32] <fsphil> mfa298: ad-hoc
[11:32] <x-f> ZINOO launch postponed due to rain (10-30 minutes..?), if anyone's gonna track it
[11:32] <fsphil> ad-hoc at a fixed 1mbit/s
[11:32] <mfa298> might have to do some playing.
[11:32] <fsphil> annoyingly ad-hoc isn't supported by the linux driver for my wifi hardware
[11:33] <mfa298> I've got a couple of 2.4 GHz patch antennas (which is what I used to see a wifi network over the 4km range)
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[11:34] <mfa298> I had assumed ad-hoc would still need to send packets back the other way (which is the issue I had)
[11:34] <fsphil> I don't believe it does
[11:34] <fsphil> but I've only done some very simple tests
[11:34] <mfa298> I've never really played with ad-hoc - I've always had enough ap's to play with
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> How does it establish the connection then ?
[11:34] <fsphil> on really old hardware
[11:34] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: it doesn't, that's the idea behind ad-hoc :)
[11:34] <craag> You might want to consider what I've been looking at for ATV. Using a helical end-fire antenna of about 60 deg beamwidth pointing straight down, then a steerable, longer, helical pointing up. Just need to stay underneath it!
[11:34] <fsphil> it's peer to peer
[11:35] <mfa298> if the ad-hoc network can be made to work we just need to send packets with enough fec over udp.
[11:36] <fsphil> the receiver wouldn't pass along a packet with a bad checksum though
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[11:36] <fsphil> it's a bit like aprs in that way
[11:36] <fsphil> unless the wifi protocol has fec?
[11:37] <mattbrejza> indeed it does
[11:37] <fsphil> 802.11b doesn't
[11:37] <fsphil> seems to have been added for a and g
[11:37] <craag> 1Mbit at N is BPSK with 1/2 FEC iirc
[11:37] <mattbrejza> really :/
[11:37] <Laurenceb__> is B-13 working?
[11:37] <fsphil> oooh maybe it does have FEC
[11:38] <Laurenceb__> no data for an hour?
[11:38] <fsphil> could be out of range of a good receiver
[11:38] <mattbrejza> well g will at least
[11:38] <mattbrejza> use tht :P
[11:40] <craag> Or N MIMO with two opposing circular-polarised helix end-fires.
[11:40] <craag> ie RHCP and LHCP
[11:41] <mfa298> can you use ad-hoc with N
[11:41] <fsphil> I dug out an old 2.4ghz video receiver last night -- 2.4ghz is basically unusable for analogue video now :)
[11:41] <mfa298> I had a feeling I saw something yesterday saying ad-hoc had gone in N
[11:41] <craag> mfa298: good q, have'nt used ad-hoc for a while
[11:41] <craag> ah
[11:41] <fsphil> ad-hoc hasn't been properly supported for a long time :(
[11:42] <fsphil> I wonder
[11:42] <mfa298> I might be remembering incorrectly (was trying to find out what my issues on a tp-link with openwrt were)
[11:42] <fsphil> we could use an sdr to receive on 2.4ghz :)
[11:42] <mfa298> that could make things more interesting.
[11:42] <fsphil> if it's bpsk that wouldn't be tooooo difficult
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[11:45] <Upu> bertrik one resistor and PWM
[11:45] <Upu> you can do RTTY with this as well
[11:46] <mfa298> this suggests upgrading ad-hoc support in g and n has been an afterthoght http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/25271-43-supported
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[11:52] <sv1ljj> Good evening!!!
[11:52] <Maxell> Hey schoppenhauer
[11:52] <Maxell> sv1ljj: :o
[11:52] <Maxell> Sorry schoppenhauer!
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[11:53] <sv1ljj> Can anyone help with building dl-fldigi???
[11:55] <mfa298> sv1ljj: for what sort of system (in general using a package is best if one's available)
[11:55] <sv1ljj> for debian testing
[11:56] <mfa298> the ubuntu instructions on the wiki should give a good guide
[11:56] <sv1ljj> I tried them but i am getting....
[11:56] <mfa298> there's also an ubuntu package but I don't know enough of the debian/ubuntu side of things to know if that would work properly
[11:56] <sv1ljj> src/Makefile.am:231: error: using '$(srcdir)' in TESTS is currently broken: '$(srcdir)/../scripts/tests/cr.sh'
[11:56] <sv1ljj> autoreconf: automake failed with exit status: 1
[11:56] <craag> I would try the ubuntu deb
[11:56] <craag> Can't see why it would differ
[12:00] <fsphil> I've seen that before
[12:01] <fsphil> I think I just replaced $(srcdir) with an explicit path to get it building
[12:02] <fsphil> this was on debian 7
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[12:03] <mattbrejza> Upu: have you compared the max6Q and max7C side by side as far as getting a lock goes?
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[12:05] <fsphil> ok what's the point of the "yes" command
[12:05] <fsphil> I just typed it in accidently and it just outputs y forever
[12:05] <adamgreig> you can pipe it to things
[12:05] <adamgreig> that read from stdin
[12:05] <adamgreig> e.g. apt
[12:05] <adamgreig> yes | apt-get install thing
[12:05] <adamgreig> obviously with apt you'd -f
[12:05] <adamgreig> but some commands can't
[12:05] <mfa298> doesn't apt have a -y flag (like yum)
[12:05] <adamgreig> I mean it's years and years old and I doubt anyone really uses it but it's unix standard iirc
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[12:05] <adamgreig> yea it has a -f flag which does the same kinda thing
[12:05] <adamgreig> but there exist programs that don't
[12:06] <adamgreig> also iirc you can give it any argument you wanta nd it'l repeat that instead
[12:06] <adamgreig> yes no
[12:06] <adamgreig> also it's fun for whacking cpu usage up
[12:06] <mfa298> surely expect was written for those sorts of apps.
[12:07] <bertrik> Upu: the one resistor solution relies on the built-in 100 kohm bias circuit inside the NTX2, right?
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[12:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> fsphil, With regard to the ad hoc network, how do you get around the need to exchange Association request/response frames ?
[12:24] <mfa298> the thought was for ad-hoc you might not need to associate
[12:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> The protocol even for ad-hoc says its needed, so I was wondering how that was got around ?
[12:26] <fsphil> interesting -- I didn't seem to need it when I tested it
[12:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> you can get the Sync details from the BSS/IBSS beacon but it doesn't complete the loop
[12:26] <fsphil> unless they got associated and that never breaks
[12:26] <adamgreig> i think generally wifi needs to be a two way thing
[12:26] <adamgreig> you'd be better off finding another way to stream over 2.4GHz?
[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> there is the use of a reassociation frame that maybe what was happening, but it still needs the origina association to establish the link.
[12:27] <adamgreig> plenty of 2.4GHz modules that can put out a decent bitrate
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> I thought ad-hoc would actually just recieve packets - and diddn't even require association
[12:27] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: but can you also "just transmit" packets?
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> There _is_ no AP
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> There is no beacon
[12:27] <fsphil> that's what I thought too SpeedEvil
[12:27] <adamgreig> hum
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> It's just nodes, spamming packets onto a channel, and listening pomiscuously.
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> promiscuously
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> No I was just saying you can get Sync details from the BSS/IBSS beacons but the association link still needs to be established at some point
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> This is why you can't do WPA
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> And why you can't detect when a ad-hoc network goes away
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> And why power usage sucks as the radio has to be active all the time
[12:29] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE: this is all ad-hoc mode so no AP which so you won't have the same beaconing stuff as standard wireless
[12:29] <fsphil> my amazing plan was to put a pre-amp on the antenna before the wifi dongle
[12:29] <mfa298> I shall have to go boot up another pc and add some wireless cards.
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Agreed you don't have any AP, but there is still the need to establish the Sync details
[12:29] <fsphil> cause I suspect wifi receivers are not great at weak signals
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE: no, there isn't
[12:30] <fsphil> this would be easily tested
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE: that's in the network setup that the user does
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it at least.
[12:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll be interested to hear how it works out then ;-)
[12:30] <fsphil> haha
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I question how well that'll work.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I guess there may be some gain
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: is this for ssdv?
[12:31] <fsphil> I figured the noise from the amp would be a lot less than the noise in the receiver
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I've thought of the related thing.
[12:32] <fsphil> video
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: multiple transmitters.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: You have 6 or 8 small wifi things on your payload
[12:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> See the first 4 packet types - note its for both types of network http://www.wildpackets.com/resources/compendium/wireless_lan/wlan_packet_types/printable
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: And you pick the approrpiate sort
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[12:32] <mfa298> I've recieved packets using a patch antenna from a wifi point (which I think was 802.11b with an outdoor omni) at around 4km, so we might get something.
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: connector
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: err - transmitter
[12:33] <fsphil> mfa298: there's a thought. run the payload in master mode
[12:34] <fsphil> with no encryption
[12:34] <fsphil> would it transmit a broadcast packet even if no clients connected?
[12:34] <mfa298> would is send out packets with nothing associated
[12:34] <mfa298> snap :p
[12:34] <fsphil> could hack the kernel driver :)
[12:34] <fsphil> make it think there's always one
[12:34] <mfa298> although I did thing earlier, what about have two wifi cards in the payload and have one associate to the other
[12:35] <mfa298> s/thing/think
[12:35] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: there are only 4 unique wifi channels
[12:35] <fsphil> the rest overlap
[12:35] <radim_OM2AMR_> hello, anyone knows SP9UOB QRG ?
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I don't mean using different frequencies
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I mean - for example - you have 8 transmitters arranged each covering one octant, and you use whichever one on is appropiate according to your GPS
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> GPS/compass
[12:35] <fsphil> aaaah
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[12:36] <fsphil> 2.4ghz disco ball
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: With the lightness of hubs, and the low power use of some wifi modules when idle - and the smallness of some modules - it could be a really light steerable antenna
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Also pretty cheap
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[12:38] <mfa298> arg, stupid windows, plug in second wifi card to play and it drops the existing wifi connection :(
[12:39] <SP5NON> SQ9MDD - bardzo ladnie odbieram w okolicy Plocka, gratuluje
[12:40] <SQ9MDD> :)
[12:40] <SQ9MDD> Ju| lduje
[12:42] <Maxell> mfa298: IP address conflict?
[12:46] <mfa298> Maxell: no it just disassociated/associated the first wifi connection as I plugged in the 2nd one.
[12:46] <mfa298> probably installing drivers causing something to restart
[12:47] <mfa298> and looks like you have to hack around with windows these days to setup an ad-hoc network
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> Grr
[12:51] <craag> mfa298: http://batc.tv/streams/M0DNY
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[12:52] <mfa298> nice
[12:52] <DL7AD> hm cool
[12:52] <F1VJQ> I'm trying to get a tracker who can hear B-13 to set FLdigi up correctly - may soon get another fix!
[12:53] <mfa298> shame my flat is on the wrong side, or you could have tried streaming via wireless
[12:53] <DL7AD> F1VJQ do you know f4fqn?
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[12:54] <DL7AD> F1VJQ he went online but i cant find any email adress of him
[12:54] <F1VJQ> DL7AD no, sorry I don't
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> Cool F1VJQ, let us know if he needs any help
[12:57] <F1VJQ> Leo English is not his lang... he downloaded FLdigi from a diff place and seems not to have HAB version Grrrr!!!!
[12:58] <F1VJQ> This place looks confusing to start with!! > http://www.w1hkj.com/download.html
[12:58] <Upu> LeoBodnar Aespacious just got back to me he's in Barcelona and setting up now
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ: does this help? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide:french
[12:58] <bertrik> F1VJQ: I think the ukhas website has a link to the exact version
[12:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Upu: Will that be a single receiver or on Globals?
[13:00] <F1VJQ> I did tell him, but you know what ppl are like for following instruction !!!!
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[13:01] <Upu> single rx
[13:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> I hope he's lucky
[13:02] <F1VJQ> LEO This is a packet he decoded... haven't established if it is valid!! > $$B-13,483,123503,43.1466,4.2942,9062,8,1,4.01,0.63*e610
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[13:03] <bertrik> looks valid! :)
[13:03] <bertrik> regarding CRC
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[13:04] <Upu> I'll post it manually
[13:04] <Upu> whats his callsign ?
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> yup, valid
[13:05] <darkstar-20011> Stupid question, but why do the size of the 'horizon' circles on the spacenear tracker depend of the lat/long of where the map is centred?
[13:05] <F1VJQ> F6HTJ is his call. location in a mo
[13:05] <Upu> updated
[13:05] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[13:05] <Upu> feel free to paste strings here
[13:05] <Upu> until he gets dl-fldigi working
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> darkstar-20011, Oh yes they do don't they!
[13:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> I've noticed that the footprints move when you scroll the map
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[13:07] <F1VJQ> LEO / UPU F6HTJ lat/long is > 42.6875000 N and 2.8750000 E
[13:08] <mfa298> the circles do the right thing for me (FF)
[13:08] <adamgreig> darkstar-20011: it's to do with the map projection and the circle approximation
[13:08] <adamgreig> mfa298: try zooming out
[13:08] <adamgreig> they don't really do the right thing for you
[13:08] <adamgreig> to put it another way - they shouldn't look like circles
[13:08] <adamgreig> not really
[13:08] <adamgreig> gmaps uses a mercator variant
[13:08] <adamgreig> spherical mercator iirc
[13:08] <Upu> I don't know how to put him on the map F1VJQ
[13:09] <Upu> adamgreig ?
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> Thanks F1VJQ
[13:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> They would be oval?
[13:09] <adamgreig> G0TDJ_Steve: uhm, maybe. depends on their position
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> wooo
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> its still alive
[13:09] <adamgreig> they might be a circle at the pole
[13:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm thinking of the footprints I see on satellite predictors
[13:09] <adamgreig> G0TDJ_Steve: yes, they would probably look a bit similar to that
[13:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[13:10] <adamgreig> drawing those on google maps is harder
[13:10] <adamgreig> so we draw circles instead
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> What is the rough percentage of error, do you know?
[13:10] <adamgreig> uhm
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> If he has more packets I can put his details into my dl-fldigi and transmit the packet to myself from fldigi and it will put the packet into the database and place his icon on the map
[13:10] <adamgreig> less than the error in assuming that you have a direct line of sight to the horizon
[13:10] <adamgreig> so not a huge biggie
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool
[13:10] <adamgreig> the percentage will change based on position
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> But better set him up :)
[13:10] <adamgreig> it's a very good approximation over the pole ;)
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Within 10%?
[13:10] <adamgreig> uhm. sometimes?
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL... OK
[13:10] <adamgreig> like
[13:11] <adamgreig> for a standard 40km launch over the UK
[13:11] <adamgreig> yes, it's probably within 5% or better
[13:11] <adamgreig> and drowned by other effects anyway
[13:11] <adamgreig> it's only meant to be a guide
[13:11] <F1VJQ> Leo OK.... he's struggling with firewall...I've asked for latest packet
[13:11] <adamgreig> "standard" "40km" haha
[13:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> So we can really dis-regard any error and just use the circles :-)
[13:11] <adamgreig> yes exactly
[13:11] <mfa298> LOS will also depend on the recievers hieght which is totally ignored at present.
[13:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[13:12] <darkstar-20011> OK
[13:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks for the clarification guys
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> Considering we are flying over Alps horizon is a bit of a too rough a guide
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> I am using this to look at elevation profiles http://www.heywhatsthat.com/profiler-0904.html
[13:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's a great tool LeoBodnar I use it often to see if I can 'see' a payload from here
[13:14] <LeoBodnar> Pass TNX to him for his efforts F1VJQ :D
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: battery voltage got veyr low last night?
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> do you have any sort of battery protection?
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> i was thinking of turning off the transmitter and gps if the voltage got below 3v or something
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> that might help
[13:16] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, it was a fresh battery and I was advised to give it a few cycles before use, advice I have completely ignored :)
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> ah yeah ive noticed this with lipo
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> you can get significant increase in performance after a few cycles
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> what capacity?
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[13:16] <LeoBodnar> It should really do it as priority measure but I am struggling with the whole GPS sleep thing at the moment.
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> did you leave the protection circuit on it?
[13:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Should see its performance improve over the next week or so then :-)
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> No, it's a bare cell
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> eeek
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> So it might liven up after few cycles
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> hopefully
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> 190mAh
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> at least its going to warmer climates
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> i see
[13:18] <LeoBodnar> Not tomorrow
[13:18] <F1VJQ> LEO He's apparently got the correct version online... He's near Perpignan
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[13:19] <LeoBodnar> We can see him on the map now
[13:19] <LeoBodnar> 11 el yagi - nice!
[13:21] <DL7AD> hey cool :)
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[13:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Eh why are they F calls in Spain ?
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> Just GPS data offset maybe
[13:23] <DL7AD> F1VJQ did you aquire F6HTJ?
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> He is from Perpignan to the North
[13:23] <F1VJQ> DL7AD I asked him on ON4KST
[13:24] <DL7AD> could you ask him, if i can put him onto my contact list, that i can write a email to him next time?
[13:24] <F1VJQ> The mast icon base isn't on QTH....but green blob on top is!!
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[13:25] <F1VJQ> DL7AD he is in KST now....
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[13:25] <DL7AD> F1VJQ oh hes not there permanently?
[13:25] <F1VJQ> KST chat
[13:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah we will all have to use the same Zoom level then ;-)
[13:26] <DL7AD> F1VJQ what is KST? #KST on freenode?
[13:27] <F1VJQ> Google for ON4KST chat
[13:27] <DL7AD> rgr
[13:27] <Upu> is he uploading now ?
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[13:28] <Upu> cuddykid can I clear your flights ?
[13:28] <F1VJQ> Upu no idea! He's on another chat page and not responding much....
[13:28] <Upu> ok no probs :)
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[13:35] <LeoBodnar> It's rare to see no path divergence at different levels http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12565_trj001.gif
[13:36] <x-f> is there some kind of limit for Ublox at 33 km altitude just like pedestrian mode and 12km?
[13:36] <adamgreig> no. in aircraft mode its altitude is essentially unrestricted aiui
[13:36] <adamgreig> certainly >>33km
[13:37] <Upu> as long as you're in flight mode (dynamic model >= 6) you're good to 50km
[13:37] <Upu> the other dynamic models have various limits on altitude
[13:37] <x-f> then i wonder what GPS iz Zinoo using..
[13:37] <Upu> default mode = 12km
[13:37] <Upu> don't launch in sea mode
[13:37] <Upu> max alt is 500m
[13:38] <adamgreig> haha
[13:38] <adamgreig> wouldn't even make out of the coxon kilometer
[13:38] <Upu> zinoo2 possibly coding ?
[13:40] <Upu> F6HTJ updated
[13:40] <LeoBodnar> Oj, ys
[13:40] <LeoBodnar> =Oh, yes.
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> so many balloons
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> im losing track
[13:41] <LeoBodnar> Balloonza!
[13:41] <Upu> I'll clear cuddykid's
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[13:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Those updates are coming in fast ?
[13:43] <Upu> replaying ?
[13:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> No I think its the pairs, I just saw the first one 8 seconds before the next
[13:45] <LeoBodnar> When there is a lot of solar power updates are sent back-to-back
[13:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah the predictions are now the Hysplit as well /
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[13:50] <cuddykid> Upu: yep
[13:50] <Maxell> The clouds move the same was as B-13... http://i.sigio.nl/a005eb9c0c60bc864001f1379cd5edc1.png
[13:52] <x-f> hmm, now its signal just faded out and dissappeared, it's not here and not at my home station (40 km away)
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[13:55] <YL3GV> x-f, tu ar maa+nu brauc?
[13:56] Mik_WD8MNV (32889d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[13:56] <x-f> j
[13:56] <Maxell> ja
[13:56] <Maxell> almost Dutch!!
[13:56] <Maxell> :D
[13:56] <YL3GV> nez ko es neuztveru zondi, kaut kas tur ar datiem nelikas ok beigas...
[13:57] <x-f> YL3GV, i'm not chasing, i'm still just outside Ceesis on the parking lot
[13:57] <YL3GV> ok
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[14:01] <x-f> possibly the balloon burst and on the post-burst chaos both antennas broke off
[14:01] <x-f> (they had some interesting construction there)
[14:02] <x-f> but then it wouldn't have faded out but just would go silent in a second
[14:03] <x-f> dunno, can't help them from here, i'm heading home
[14:04] <x-f> waterfall is empty
[14:05] <YL3GV> may be, but why trajectory changed so strange? :)
[14:07] <x-f> could be a GPS or a coding error
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[14:09] <x-f> was funny how i remembered about my home station an hour too late after the launch.. :]
[14:10] <YL3GV> ok, could be. I think thats's it for today. Going to watch Dinamo Riga :)
[14:11] <x-f> :)
[14:13] <YL3GV> ZINOO2 is on ground near Vecpiebalga. [chaula.tv]
[14:14] <x-f> good, thanks
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[14:19] Nick change: uwe__ -> uwe_
[14:19] <DL7AD> hey thats a success today :)
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> What was the payload like on ZINOO2?
[14:26] <x-f> it was a 20cm sphere, but with two very external :) antennas, one for telemetry on 434 MHz, other for video on 1.3 GHz
[14:28] <x-f> YL3GV, i called JDat, they are walking to recover it now, all good
[14:29] <YL3GV> just see on chaula.tv, they are going to find it :)
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> cool
[14:32] <x-f> i'm on the road atm, cant watch tv :)
[14:32] <YL3GV> www.chaula.tv
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[14:37] <LeoBodnar> I love complete chaos on this tv channel. Beats glossy BBC hands down.
[14:38] <YL3GV> :)
[14:38] <YL3GV> video from rescue operation via Skype I think
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[14:39] <F1VJQ> B-13 crossing from sea to land at Rosas , Costa Brava
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[14:42] <LeoBodnar> Another country added to the list :)
[14:43] <adamgreig> you should get passport stamps ;)
[14:44] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB prediction http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12900_trj001.gif
[14:44] <F1VJQ> LEO You never know, it may divert and fly over C31 Andorra!!!
[14:44] <F1VJQ> I mean C3
[14:45] <F1VJQ> I don't know any EA3 stations or else I'd ask!!!
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> Winds have mind of their own
[14:46] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for your help with HTJ
[14:47] <F1VJQ> At least for now his input establishes where it is!!!
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[14:49] <DL7AD> we'll get another receiver in allicante soon!
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[14:51] <LeoBodnar> Cool, it's massive step from no receivers to a single receiver :)
[14:52] <F1VJQ> That's the ham network Leo!!
[14:52] <F1VJQ> LEO - HTJ says "19el horiz yagi with LNA beaming to baloon"
[14:52] <LeoBodnar> Have you spoken to him on HF?
[14:54] <F1VJQ> LEO No, I'm on the ON4KST chat. I know him as the admin of French beacons (I'm admin of beaconspot)
[14:54] <YL3GV> ZINOO2 found in a tree
[14:54] <F1VJQ> better in a tree than inside a cow!!!
[14:54] <LeoBodnar> This chaula.tv is so funny
[14:55] <YL3GV> :) i watch it 1st time
[14:57] <radim_OM2AMR_> guys need chainsaw
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[15:10] <LeoBodnar> Does payload emit an audio beep?
[15:10] <LeoBodnar> ZINOO2 that is
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[15:12] <radim_OM2AMR_> looks like beep from the ground - UPS ? :-)
[15:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:12] <radim_OM2AMR_> hello Lunar
[15:12] <Lunar_Lander> Wainwright did it again!
[15:13] <Lunar_Lander> First page of BILD (german version of The Sun) with the "life from space" stuff
[15:14] <Lunar_Lander> phil plait about that http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/20/et_claims_of_alien_life_in_earth_s_atmosphere_are_unfounded.html
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[15:14] <LeoBodnar> got it down
[15:15] <YL3GV> jep
[15:15] <radim_OM2AMR_> beep from payload
[15:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Team effort or what....
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> That picture looks like an xray of Kippers - something Heston would do for Waitrose packaging
[15:17] <Maxell> There seem to be more Polish trackers tracking SP9UOB than total trackers in the Netherlands :P
[15:17] f5vnf (5c927613@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[15:17] <Maxell> Amazing amount of activety there
[15:17] <LeoBodnar> Yea, look at Warsaw trackers density!
[15:18] <Lunar_Lander> is ZINOO2 still working?
[15:18] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, yeah :D
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[15:19] <Lunar_Lander> Witam do Polska!
[15:19] f5vnf (5c927613@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Client Quit
[15:19] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[15:22] <fsphil> I may be able to receive this one later, thanks LeoBodnar :)
[15:22] <LeoBodnar> ha!
[15:23] <F1VJQ> fsphil are you still in Spain?
[15:23] <fsphil> F1VJQ: that was dave, I'm in n.ireland
[15:23] <fsphil> the prediction is showing B-13 coming up here tomorrow
[15:24] <F1VJQ> fsphil OK ..yes about 500km off in Atlantic I expect!
[15:25] <LeoBodnar> with some ducting and a pinch of hope...
[15:25] <LeoBodnar> s/hope/luck/
[15:27] <F1VJQ> B-13 is studiously avoiding my circle of reception!
[15:28] <fsphil> it's just shy
[15:29] <F1VJQ> fsphil It will probably come within range when I'm asleep tonight!! Then it will go out of range when I get up!
[15:30] <Maxell> F1VJQ: no sleep for you tonight :P
[15:31] <F1VJQ> I beg to differ!! I'll be out for a meal, back home for a bottle of wine, and a few large scotches as a nightcap!
[15:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Might come in range of EA1EXV he tracked the Lohan flight on Thursday when it got high enough, he has hills to the SE it seems.
[15:33] <F1VJQ> Geoff maybe... but you would be surprised - if hills are 10km away they pose no block on horizon
[15:34] <Maxell> Why not get HAB-tracking setup on the hill? :D
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[15:35] <F1VJQ> yea right!! Just in case one comes flying by!!
[15:37] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[15:37] <LeoBodnar> permanent campsite and 24h shifts
[15:37] <F1VJQ> F6HTJ just put a spot on the DX Cluster.......> 1536 f6htj 434500.0 BAL0N over EA3 DominoEX16 usb
[15:39] <SP3OSJ> Hi anyone knows ZINO02 frequency??
[15:39] <F1VJQ> I'm trying to get EB3DYS to track... he's hearing it near Barcelona
[15:39] Jancis (55ff4a95@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[15:39] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: some kind of interwebs that allows you to do remote desktop is suffcient.
[15:40] <Jancis> Hi! Anyone following zinoo-2?
[15:40] <Maxell> F1VJQ: DX Cluster? Now now more people listen in? :D
[15:41] <LeoBodnar> ZINOO2 is down and has been retrieved from a tree already
[15:41] <Jancis> k, thanks! that's exatly what i wanted to know because last altitude is 32km and then nothing
[15:42] <x-f> it just stopped transmitting
[15:42] <LeoBodnar> I think it stopped transmitting at burst
[15:42] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, cool
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[15:42] <Jancis> how did you locate it?
[15:42] <Jancis> or whoever got it
[15:42] <Jancis> alternative tx?
[15:42] <x-f> they had a backup GPS/GSM in the payload
[15:43] <Jancis> where did it land near which city or town?
[15:43] <LeoBodnar> It was live on chaula.tv very refined entertainment indeed!
[15:43] <F1VJQ> Maxell It's a radio ham spotting place!
[15:43] <x-f> afaik, somewhere near Vecpiebalga
[15:44] <x-f> when i was at the Zinoo launch site, the organisers said they wanted "an interesting landing site" - in the middle of a lake or a tall tree, perhaps
[15:44] <Jancis> X check :)
[15:45] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[15:45] <YL3GV> Position: 57.069393,25.936253
[15:45] <YL3GV> zinoo2
[15:45] <Maxell> F1VJQ: yeah, people watch it so they also can make contact with him/her/it
[15:46] <SP3OSJ> One question. Is my balloon can fly to England on frequencies 437.700MHz. Is the "Royal Air Force" to kill my balloon in England?
[15:46] <x-f> YL3GV, where did you get it?
[15:46] <Maxell> x-f: Latvia is 1,5% water. Netherlands is 18% water, and I tell you: seeing your payload taking a swim is not fun!
[15:47] <F1VJQ> Maxell yes.. that's about it!!
[15:47] <YL3GV> from map, red car
[15:47] <DL7AD> by the way: no response from andorra, yet. no response from portugal
[15:47] <Maxell> F1VJQ: but they do not know where to report it :P
[15:47] <x-f> Maxell, look how Brits landed on a tiny island in Thames few months ago :)
[15:47] <Lunar_Lander> SP3OSJ, yeah they'll use lazerz!
[15:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:47] <Maxell> pew pew
[15:47] <F1VJQ> Maxell they'll no doubt ask someone or google !
[15:48] <Maxell> "B-13" baloon won't give you any useful hits
[15:49] Jancis (55ff4a95@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: thanks! will pop in later
[15:49] <Maxell> 434.500 baloon might give some usefil hits :P
[15:49] <x-f> they can backtrace it, using the log it sends!
[15:50] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: you will be violating the terms of your ham licence but RAF usually has slightly more interesting things on their mind.
[15:51] <darkstar-20011> LeoBodnar: You mean gin & tonic and golf?
[15:51] <LeoBodnar> And fine cigars to boot
[15:54] <SP3OSJ> Leo: Thank you for the information I'll watch
[15:55] <F1VJQ> LEO - I've passed on the Spanish lang link to EB3 station to get FLdigi but he may be busy downloading... hasn't responded.. I will be QRT soon to go out for the evening, but I'll keep an eye open!
[15:56] <F1VJQ> when I get back...
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> Thank you F1VJQ
[15:58] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[15:58] <F1VJQ> It needs some proactive actions to get more trackers!!
[16:02] <f5vnf> dont have a rig with 70cms, waiting for my sdr to arrive, do you think it will hang around untill it gets here
[16:03] <Laurenceb__> sun is starting to go down at B-13
[16:04] <F1VJQ> I'm now off here... back later, good luck in finding more trackers!! 73
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[16:10] <Laurenceb__> http://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/lithium2.jpg
[16:10] <Upu> spanish listener
[16:10] <Laurenceb__> lol jpeg for graphs
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[16:15] <Laurenceb__> looks like 4.35v would be ok for hab
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[16:23] <LeoBodnar> Are they LiPos?
[16:26] <Laurenceb__> yes
[16:26] <Laurenceb__> i dont see any capacity increase over the first few cycles
[16:26] <Laurenceb__> but im sure it does exist
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[16:29] <LeoBodnar> It's been in storage for some (unknown) amount of time
[16:30] <LeoBodnar> I know how they increase capacity at the plant. THis is from the guys who are working with the manufactureres.
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> "We have just asked girl at the production to put thicker layer of electrolyte paste on." lol
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> "When LiPo batteries are manufactured they use a chemical reaction inhibitor to increase shelf life. It takes a few cycles to chemically use up the inhibitor. This varies a but between manufacturers and they keep making improvements. This is the reason that some batteries have better performance after a few cycles."
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> from here http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t486304p1/
[16:36] <Laurenceb__> if it increases ESR it might explain why the voltage was so low
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[16:38] <SP9UOB> evening ALL
[16:38] <Maxell> Hello SP9UOB
[16:39] <x-f> SP9UOB, i removed the old data, sorry for the delay
[16:39] <SP9UOB> x-f: thank You. MPL sensor is working flawessly :-)
[16:40] <SP9UOB> if You compare gps altitude with pressura altitude
[16:40] <Maxell> A lot of listeners! I'm amazed by the Polish HAB-activety
[16:40] <SP9UOB> anyway i have stupid bug in code ;-)
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[16:40] <Maxell> :o
[16:41] <x-f> SP9UOB, yeah, they both are very similar, and congrats on a successful float finally :)
[16:41] <SP9UOB> x-f: thank You :-)
[16:43] <Maxell> Also solar cells right, or single AA battery?
[16:45] <Laurenceb__> how do you convert to pressure altitude?
[16:45] <Laurenceb__> atmospheric model?
[16:46] <SP9UOB> Laurenceb__: yes
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[16:47] <SP9UOB> Laurenceb__: altitude = (float)44330 * (1 - pow(((float) pressure/qnh), 0.190295));
[16:47] <Laurenceb__> ah simple
[16:47] <Laurenceb__> surprisingly accurate
[16:49] <Laurenceb__> ah - the pressure altitude correlates perfectly with the altitude oscillation
[16:49] <Laurenceb__> looks like its balloon buoyancy oscillations
[16:49] <SP9UOB> Laurenceb__: mpl3115a2 as pressure sensor
[16:49] <Laurenceb__> is it a AA battery?
[16:50] <tjanos> Good afternoon! I am new here from Budapest. To see the present situation, my question is: - what is the frequency on SP9UOB? (sry, if it was published here)
[16:50] <SP9UOB> Energizer Lithium AA, all electronics is working at 2.7V
[16:50] <tjanos> - how can interperet the oscillating traces on the map? I will try to alert my friends on our closed list of satellite trackers here in Hungary
[16:50] <SP9UOB> tjanos: near 437.600 MHz USB
[16:51] <SP9UOB> tjanos: it is stupid bug in code
[16:51] <tjanos> Thank you! Congratulations to the filghts!
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[16:55] <SP9UOB_> tjanos: near 437.600 MHz USB
[16:55] <SP9UOB_> argh, internet acces here is horrible
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[17:01] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: is is urban myth or some solid fact?
[17:01] <Laurenceb__> im not sure
[17:01] <Laurenceb__> ive seen it with phones
[17:02] <Laurenceb__> it is odd how the battery was delivering charge at 2.7v last night
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> I'll ask my resident chemist / LiPo importer.
[17:02] <Laurenceb__> if there was a reaction inhibitor youd expect voltage to drop
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[17:04] <Laurenceb__> sunset at SP9UOB
[17:06] <LeoBodnar> Is SP9UOB using solar power?
[17:06] <Laurenceb__> no, lithium
[17:07] <Laurenceb__> the voltage seems to correlate with temperature
[17:07] <Laurenceb__> hard to say how much charge is left
[17:07] <SP9UOB_> LeoBodnar: no just one AA
[17:08] <Laurenceb__> looks like it will float overnight
[17:08] <Laurenceb__> if the battery lasts
[17:08] <LeoBodnar> What is your total payload weight?
[17:08] <LeoBodnar> H2?
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[17:11] <SP9UOB> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/smallpico7.jpg
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[17:14] <Laurenceb__> i thought that was Upu to the right for a second :P
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[17:19] <LeoBodnar> two floaters! exciting
[17:20] <enkidu> was zinoo2 using lead acid?
[17:20] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:20] <Maxell> floater-fight! pew pew laz0rs
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> c'mon grow up, this is childish
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> Use masers instead!
[17:23] <enkidu> gauss cannon!
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> Do I get it right - when two horizon circles intersect balloon can see each other?
[17:24] <x-f> enkidu, probably - there was one on "the launch pad" as the external power supply, so there probably was another one smaller inside the payload, i didn't inspect it that closely
[17:24] <craag> yes :)
[17:24] <craag> LeoBodnar: yep
[17:24] <craag> assuming no mountains and stuff
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[17:25] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[17:26] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> Transition from the first day into the night is always a critical time.
[17:29] <tjanos> ha5nm Laci recived the SP9UOB. He live near Balasagyarmat. He sent me a wav file now....
[17:30] <LeoBodnar> Hungary, cool
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[17:31] <tjanos> sry, what is the nex step?
[17:31] <tjanos> can I forward this file somewhere?
[17:33] <LeoBodnar> Can you post it online?
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[17:34] <LeoBodnar> Buenos eveningos daveake
[17:34] <daveake> sorry mate am back in blightly can't help :p
[17:35] <Upu> your timing is ...poor :)
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> I had no selfish thoughts !
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> :D
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> Your timing is purr
[17:37] <daveake> Whose timing? :)
[17:38] <tjanos> Its size is 1.2 meg. Maybe on google can share it? but this is the cw from it: SP9UOB SP9UOB JN98JN JN98JN AST 7339m
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> Ah then Tom would be interested from this report - I thought it was RTTY telemetry data
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> Can you post it there? : http://sp7pki.iq24.pl/default.asp?grupa=75798&temat=346700&nr_str=2
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[17:47] <tjanos> Hmmm...not easy. The registration is in polish. I filled the form, arrived a lonbg text in polish too...
[17:48] <tjanos> oh, I am inside the forum
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[17:49] <tjanos> It seems it is really "iternbational" used all the european "official" language. Ledo, you have real advantage have some language skills...
[17:49] <DL7AD> does anyone have the right frequency for SP9UOB ?
[17:49] <tjanos> sry, my tipo: Leo
[17:50] <arko> LeoBodnar: what power is B-13?
[17:50] <charolastra> what's the freq. of SP9UOB again?
[17:51] <x-f> 437.6
[17:51] <LeoBodnar> http://translate.google.com/ is your friend! :) tjanos
[17:52] <LeoBodnar> Usual stuff arko solar+LiPo
[17:52] <arko> ah
[17:52] <LeoBodnar> Usual stuff: lack of receivers :)
[17:57] <Laurenceb__> battery seems to be holding on B-13
[18:01] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[18:04] Rexor (~BadClown@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] <eroomde> there is a deep satisfaction in designing and using a well-made switch panel
[18:05] <eroomde> where all the buttons have the right click, all the rotary knobs have the right positive sense of engagement, and everything is well layer out, sealed, waterproof, locking and so on
[18:05] <eroomde> http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/09/21/how-to-start-up-a-boeing-737/
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> I read it as a "sandwich panel" eroomde
[18:06] <eroomde> similarly tasty
[18:06] <daveake> I quite enjoyed firing a pyro - indirectly via Iridium - from my switch panel :)
[18:06] <daveake> The unpredictable delay just added to the fun :p
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[18:07] <eroomde> an expensive but cool RNG?
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[18:08] <daveake> yes :)
[18:09] <craag> daveake: Was that iridium up - iridium down? or just over the web to the receiver iridium?
[18:10] <daveake> latter
[18:10] <daveake> Pi-in-a-box to do the sending
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[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Australia---Air/General-Dynamics-RF-111C/1827701/L/
[18:10] <daveake> Rockblock + Arduino Mini Pro at the rx end
[18:10] <craag> Ah cool.
[18:11] <daveake> Pi side is just a shell script
[18:11] <daveake> gpio commands to check the switches and control the leds
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I do wonder about the improper procedure.
[18:11] <daveake> wget to do the webby bits
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I.E. 'there are people with guns coming this way'
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> I guess the military version will have the explicit reduced checklists
[18:14] <tjanos> The last CW from SP9UOB: JN98KD, 7252m. Near the Hungarian border
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[18:16] <eroomde> nice photo ibanezmatt13
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> certainly is
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[18:26] <LeoBodnar> steel and fire - beauty
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[18:30] <tjanos> SP9UOB arrived in Hungary! Welcome!
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[18:39] <eroomde> oh my talk is up
[18:39] <eroomde> thanks, whoever is owed thanks for that
[18:40] <arko> nice!
[18:43] <eroomde> right i'd better get my act together then and publish the cleaned up notebook
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[18:48] <arko> lol
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[18:54] <Laurenceb__> SP9UOB voltage is trending up not down...
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> vampire panel
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[18:57] <Laurenceb__> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/dcfafd51a458b637a94d6e71d0d83faa
[18:57] <Laurenceb__> i like the pressure/altitude correlation
[18:57] <Laurenceb__> looks like it isnt gravity waves
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[19:02] <enkidu> accelerometer would be fun
[19:02] <Rexor> Why SP9UOB path is so weird ?
[19:03] <eroomde> arko: how did you direct-link to videos on batch?
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15789_trj001.gif
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[19:04] <Laurenceb__> any receivers in iceland?
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[19:05] <arko> eroomde: http://www.batc.tv/channel.php?cat=HAB+2013&ch=1&id=1179
[19:05] <arko> if you look at the source code each video has an id
[19:05] <arko> <option value="1182" >HAB2013 08 part 4</option>
[19:05] <arko> <option value="1181" >HAB2013 08 GPS part 3</option>
[19:05] <arko> <option value="1179" selected="selected" >HAB2013 08 GPS part 1</option>
[19:05] <arko> <option value="1180" >HAB2013 08 GPS part 2</option>
[19:05] <eroomde> http://www.batc.tv/channel.php?cat=HAB+2013&ch=1&id=1181
[19:06] <arko> that works
[19:06] <eroomde> so that should be where the good bit starts
[19:06] <eroomde> ish
[19:06] <eroomde> cool
[19:06] <eroomde> thanks
[19:06] <arko> yep
[19:06] <arko> np
[19:07] <chris_4x1rf> B-13 coming my way :?
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[19:08] <DL7AD> what happened with SP9UOB? did it die?
[19:09] Nick change: jarod_ -> jarod
[19:10] <Laurenceb__> its still there
[19:11] <Laurenceb__> im wondering what type of RTG its flying
[19:11] <arko> woah
[19:11] <arko> new iPython is shiny
[19:11] <eroomde> yeah nice huh
[19:12] <arko> yeah, just updated my real computers iPython
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[19:12] <eroomde> real = windows?
[19:13] <arko> nah
[19:13] <arko> its ubuntu
[19:13] <arko> real as in the laptop i use everyday
[19:13] <arko> not the crappy throw away i brought with my to england
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[19:18] <LeoBodnar> where is FF >> button on the map?
[19:19] <arko> eroomde: looks like im getting a Invalid JSON data
[19:19] <eroomde> where who why?
[19:19] <eroomde> ipython?
[19:19] <arko> with the "actualtalk"
[19:19] <arko> yeah
[19:19] <eroomde> which cell?
[19:19] <arko> does the new version not import the old?
[19:19] <eroomde> unsure
[19:19] <arko> hmm
[19:20] <arko> i just dragged the notebook into the interface and the terminal gave me that error
[19:20] <arko> dunno
[19:20] <eroomde> works fine for me
[19:20] <eroomde> on a different laptop
[19:20] <eroomde> with new ipython
[19:21] <arko> hm
[19:21] <arko> i must be doing something dumb
[19:21] <eroomde> does a vanilla workbook work?
[19:21] <eroomde> can you plot and so on?
[19:24] <arko> its: ipython notebook --pylab
[19:24] <arko> right?
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[19:24] <arko> does pylab install when installing ipython?
[19:26] <arko> odd, plot isnt working
[19:27] <eroomde> you'll need: scipy, bumpy and matplotlib for pylab to work
[19:27] <eroomde> er, numpy not bumpy
[19:27] <eroomde> bumpy is a different pibrary
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[19:28] <arko> sudo apt-get install python-numpy python-scipy python-matplotlib ipython ipython-notebook python-pandas python-sympy python-nose
[19:28] <arko> that should do it
[19:28] <eroomde> indeed
[19:28] <eroomde> though i prefer to use pip
[19:28] <eroomde> for that stuff
[19:28] <eroomde> i think everything is painless with pip except i vaguely remember matplotlib being annoying
[19:28] <arko> ah man, too late
[19:29] <arko> heh
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[19:37] <Willdude123> Hi eroomde
[19:37] <eroomde> hi Willdude123
[19:38] <Willdude123> How's stuff?
[19:39] <eroomde> stuff's alright, quiet night in doing a bit of studying
[19:39] <Willdude123> On?
[19:39] <eroomde> saturdays are great once you reach adulthood...
[19:39] <Willdude123> Heh
[19:39] <eroomde> and london tomorrow to see some friends
[19:40] <eroomde> i'm working on learning about non-ideal gases
[19:40] <Willdude123> Ooh
[19:40] <eroomde> so in rockets we have to work with high pressure gases and fluids generally, a lot
[19:40] <eroomde> and one of the first equations you come across in studying this stuff at school is the Ideal Gas Equation
[19:41] <eroomde> which is surprisingly good for a surprisingly large number of situations in physics and engineerings
[19:41] <Willdude123> Ah OK.
[19:41] <eroomde> but in our cases some of the pressures are high enough that the ideal gas equation starts deviating from reality, and you have to correct it by modelling the electrostatic interations between the modules when they get really close together
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[19:42] <eroomde> these care called wan der Waals forces
[19:42] <Willdude|BF3> Sorry did you say much? Talking within bf3 now
[19:42] <eroomde> anyway, they are one of the big 'non-ideal' things about high pressure gases, and i'm just reading up and modifying some of the code we use to analyse things to account for this effect
[19:44] <Willdude|BF3> OK.
[19:44] <Willdude|BF3> So what does an ideal gas do??
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> being ideal
[19:44] <arko> pvnrt things
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> keeping things real
[19:44] <eroomde> it's more that most gases behave like 'ideal' gases most of the time
[19:45] <eroomde> where, say, if you have a fixed amount of gas in a box, if you double the temperature the pressure will also double
[19:45] <eroomde> say
[19:45] <eroomde> boyle's law, you might have come across
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[19:46] <arko> eroomde: no luck with ipython, got plot working and all, still giving me json invalid error
[19:46] <arko> s
[19:46] <eroomde> very odd
[19:46] <eroomde> don;t think i've seen such a thing
[19:46] <eroomde> definitely the right python?
[19:46] <arko> yeah
[19:46] <arko> 2.7
[19:46] <arko> do i need 3?
[19:47] <eroomde> Willdude123: or, if you halve the volume, and keep the temp fixed, you double the pressure. these are all true with 'ideal gas' assumptions
[19:47] <eroomde> arko: nope
[19:47] <arko> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15771700/ipython-notebook-0-12-1-and-0-13-1-compatibility
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[19:47] <arko> looks like a compatibility issue, not sure how you got it to work
[19:48] <arko> ah shit, wait, thats going backwards
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> Willdude|BF3, and real gases do not have that propery because of the intermolecular forces
[19:48] <eroomde> but the ideal gas assumptions are good enough for engineering purposes 99% of the time
[19:50] <enkidu> ideal gass assumptions are very good at low pressures
[19:51] <eroomde> well, they go out the window at *really* low pressures :)
[19:51] <eroomde> but yes
[19:51] <enkidu> at really low pressures it indeed is out the window, but due to model parametres
[19:52] <arko> eroomde: are you on 0.13?
[19:52] <eroomde> 1.1
[19:52] <enkidu> internal energy is so low, that you got few molecules
[19:52] <arko> oh wow, im behind
[19:52] <arko> i thought this was the new one
[19:52] <arko> 0.12, no wonder it wasnt working
[19:53] <eroomde> use pip
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[20:01] <eroomde> periodic reposting of this for those who haven't had a read- how to do cables and connectors the right way
[20:01] <eroomde> http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
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[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Meh. You just put all the sensors and actuators on wifi, and then run +12V to everything.
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[20:01] <SpeedEvil> It's not like it's difficult or anything.
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[20:05] <Willdude|BF3> eroomde: Why do you need ideal gasses?
[20:05] <Willdude|BF3> And does anyone else here play bf3?
[20:05] <eroomde> Willdude|BF3: i think you misunderstand
[20:05] <eroomde> there's no such thing as an ideal gas
[20:05] <Willdude|BF3> Yes I got that bit
[20:05] <eroomde> it's more a way of modelling gases which exist
[20:05] <eroomde> nitrogen
[20:05] <eroomde> hydrogen
[20:05] <eroomde> argon
[20:05] <eroomde> whatever
[20:05] <Willdude|BF3> Ah OK. Why is it important for what you do?
[20:05] <eroomde> you can reason about how they behave with the ideal gas equation
[20:06] <eroomde> well, it's very important and we use it everywhere. a rocket engine is all about controlling gases
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[20:06] <eroomde> we need it to predict how stuff expands out the nozzle, and so what thrust we get
[20:06] <eroomde> how things mix in the injectors
[20:06] <eroomde> how things flow over orifices of a certain size so we can calculate the propellant mass flow
[20:07] <eroomde> how big a tank we'll need, how much pressurant we need to foce it into the engine from the tank, all these things
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[20:07] <arko> eroomde: that fixed it
[20:07] <arko> thanks
[20:07] <eroomde> it's just a basic tool in the mathematical toolbox
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[20:15] <enkidu> SpeedEvil: I2C ffs
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[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Err - what?
[20:17] <enkidu> Meh. You just put all the sensors and actuators on wifi, and then run +12V to everything.
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Wifi is clearly better, as it has encryption.
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[20:33] <Laurenceb__> why when i run nautilus with X forwarding over ssh can I not see the network drives on the remote machine?
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[20:39] <Laurenceb__> ssh -Y isnt working either :-/
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[20:43] <Laurenceb__> nvm fixed it
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: http://www.baen.com/Columbia.asp (not the obvious accident) accurate checklists, and oxygen are both kinda important.
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[20:56] <MobileNathan> hi
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[20:56] <Sven1987h> hi to all
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:04] <Sven1987h> verry go ;)
[21:04] <Sven1987h> *good
[21:07] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: interesting
[21:07] <Laurenceb__> i dont get how it acted so quickly
[21:08] <Laurenceb__> i mean - http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/05/german-diver-sets-breath-holding-record-22-minutes-22-seconds/
[21:12] <DL7AD> got records from b-13 :D
[21:13] <Laurenceb__> ooh
[21:13] <Laurenceb__> nice
[21:13] Action: Laurenceb__ can manage 3minutes 30 seconds
[21:13] <Laurenceb__> (breath holding)
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[21:19] <staylo> I guess when you're holding your breath you've still got some amount of oxygen for your lungs to process. Replace that with nitrogen and ...
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> It's worse than that.
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> Haemoglobin gives up its stored gas - CO2 or O2 - when the partial pessue of gas is lower than a certain amount.
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[21:25] <SpeedEvil> When you breathe a gas with no O2 - the blood flowing through it actually dumps the oxygen
[21:25] <DL7AD> hey.... thats cool ;D http://www.redesmadrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/malabares.gif
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> So you get blood coming out of the lungs with approximately zero O2
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> Which is normally impossible.
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> But you aslo get CO2 scubbing in the normal way
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> And CO2 drives the 'I'm suffocating' response.
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> So you basically take one breath - notice nothing - take another - feel a bit woozy - take another and fall over unconsioucs
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> And then another couple and your heart stops
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[21:34] <eroomde> wow france
[21:34] <eroomde> listeners galore
[21:36] <Laurenceb__> what the fuuuu
[21:36] <Laurenceb__> how can draftsight be 300MB
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[21:36] <Laurenceb__> sneakernet time
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[21:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah ha a Spanish tracker at last!
[21:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody able to update the description panel on snus ?
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[22:03] <WillTablet> There was a cannabis legalization protest in my town centre today, decided to go check it out. Around 20 people turned up
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[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD I remember a thing where like "concerned parents" put up a trash container in the city, asking citizens to throw in violent computer games
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> no one did that, so they staged it for TV and they actually threw in one newly packed GTA San Andreas and I think a Pokemon game
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:52] <Laurenceb__> eeek
[22:52] <Laurenceb__> battery is way too low
[22:53] <DL7AD> its colder than yesterday
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[23:00] <SP3OSJ> Hi, - 00:00 GMT start my balloon "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" http://s10.postimg.org/9fut70jc9/image.jpg
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> it's prbably going to do B-12 soon, I have used the same battery type but did not charge it fully after storage.
[23:01] <arko> SP3OSJ: nice!
[23:01] <arko> whats the mass?
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[23:16] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: need to do a freezer test with different Lipo cells
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> Need to preselect good samples from a pile of batteries at least
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> "Do it properly"
[23:18] <Laurenceb__> any postscript gurus here?
[23:18] <Laurenceb__> heh
[23:19] <LeoBodnar> it has extensions .eps or .ps did I pass?
[23:19] <Laurenceb__> yes, its ps
[23:19] <adamgreig> convert to pdf
[23:19] <adamgreig> >.>
[23:19] <Laurenceb__> im trying to set the minimum line width
[23:19] <Laurenceb__> atm its got 0 width lines
[23:19] <Laurenceb__> its from autodesk
[23:20] <SP3OSJ> Adobe Distiller
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[23:21] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: or just a low current sleep state when the voltage is too low
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, B-14 then
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> heh
[23:22] <Laurenceb__> or progressive low power modes
[23:22] <Laurenceb__> every 10 minutes, every 15 minutes etc
[23:22] <Laurenceb__> but yeah - freezer lipo test first
[23:23] Action: SpeedEvil needs to hook his PSU up to his serial port to do battery testing
[23:23] <Laurenceb__> hmf i cant even find the line width definitions in this postscript file
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> well, and to read and understand the programming language
[23:26] <Laurenceb__> http://pastebin.com/xuKXt0aG
[23:27] <Laurenceb__> /w { setlinewidth } def
[23:27] <Laurenceb__> hmmm
[23:28] <Laurenceb__> im guessing it must be somewhere in that header?
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[23:42] <Laurenceb__> finally
[23:42] <Laurenceb__> line 458
[23:43] <Laurenceb__> that look hawt
[23:43] <Laurenceb__> *looks
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[00:00] --- Sun Sep 22 2013