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[00:17] <Mik_WD8MNV> what freq is b-12 supposed to be on?
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> 434.500 MHz as far as I know
[00:19] <Mik_WD8MNV> can't tell what time it's supposed to be in range
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> sadly I can't answer that
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[00:21] <Mik_WD8MNV> looks like it'll be like 5am ish? dark
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> should reach Nevada by 1200 Z UTC I think
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> where are you from if I may ask?
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/NOAA.gif
[00:22] <Mik_WD8MNV> Oakland, CA CM87
[00:23] <Mik_WD8MNV> looks like it crosses here in darkness, if it's still airborne
[00:24] <Mik_WD8MNV> and all i have is RTL dongle
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> but RTL dongles should be OK
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> at least they have proven so in the past
[00:27] <Mik_WD8MNV> they're OK... but 10KHz off on 2 meters
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[00:30] <Mik_WD8MNV> it will be replaced with a HackRF, whenever it gets finished
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:31] <Mik_WD8MNV> it's subject to local RFI as well
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> not good :(
[00:32] <Mik_WD8MNV> my local noise on HF ie S9+30
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[00:32] <Mik_WD8MNV> blech
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh well
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> time for good night in Europe
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> good luck! :)
[00:33] <Mik_WD8MNV> that's city life i guess... lots of noise to bust thru
[00:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:33] <Mik_WD8MNV> k... nite
[00:33] <Lunar_Lander> night!
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[00:57] <MobileNathan> Hi.
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[06:36] <tweetBot> @daveake: View of the landing area, reached via a 7km track. The payload was another 1km away on foot. http://t.co/gQCCdKwaWi #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
[06:37] <x-f> mmm, nice view
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[06:38] <Panman> what the
[06:38] <Panman> anyone got some crack?
[06:38] <daveake> It was very very scenic up there
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[06:39] <daveake> Not the high he was looking for
[06:39] <tweetBot> @daveake: Lester from @regspb looking for the payload - http://t.co/OlkQ84NrwW #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
[06:40] <adamgreig> wow, lovely terrain daveake
[06:40] <daveake> Absolutely amazing
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[06:40] <adamgreig> international launches are the way to go, clearly
[06:40] <daveake> Wasn't at all clear from the maps/satellite imagery that the track was driveable, but it was fine, bar a few craters
[06:40] <adamgreig> none of this rubbish east anglia flatlands
[06:40] <daveake> lol
[06:41] <daveake> true :)
[06:41] <adamgreig> I could do with another cross-channel to France
[06:41] <adamgreig> drank well for weeks after that
[06:42] <daveake> hah :)
[06:43] <tweetBot> @daveake: Unsurprisingly the parachute was the first thing I saw http://t.co/bsom39w6qU #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
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[06:44] <DL1SGP> good morning :)
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[06:45] <tweetBot> @daveake: @regspb flight ended with the GoPro hitting the dirt, breaking the spar inside the case. http://t.co/Q0AQqvjQgE #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
[06:46] <daveake> As you can tell the internet is working again afte I maxxed it out yesterday :p
[06:46] <adamgreig> hehe
[06:46] <daveake> Silly 1GB/day limit
[06:47] <daveake> Actually we have 2 local SIM cards and maxxed out both
[06:47] <DL1SGP> lovely pictures dave
[06:47] <daveake> cheers
[06:47] <daveake> We planned for the flight to land in the plains but the ascent rate was way off and it burst very early
[06:48] <adamgreig> any idea on the early burst?
[06:49] <daveake> My suspicion is that the latex wasn't evenly distributed, and it didn't want to stretch, then a weak point went
[06:49] <daveake> A lot of latex came down with it and we have that here
[06:49] <adamgreig> curious
[06:50] <DL1SGP> yeah with the early burst and the auto separation system ignition not being triggered it was a bit heavy as well
[06:50] <daveake> Initial ascent was 5-6m/s as planned
[06:50] <DL1SGP> plus latex :)
[06:50] <daveake> then it slowed down to 3.3
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[06:51] <Upu> pics look good daveake
[06:52] <DL1SGP> well gladly you found it, and it provided data, plus gave you a lovely hike in the area :) enough reason to have a fine cold one ones back at the base
[06:52] <tweetBot> @daveake: @regspb playmonaut survived intact, protected in his safety cell behind a crumpled crumple zone http://t.co/Jxfb798ngK #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
[06:52] <DL1SGP> *once even .oO( coffee needed )
[06:52] <daveake> "a fine cold one"?
[06:52] <daveake> ^ "a" ??
[06:53] <DL1SGP> a barrel, serving you fresh from the tap
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[06:54] <daveake> :)
[06:54] <DL1SGP> anyhow, time to regulate coffee issue, brb
[06:54] <daveake> No we have a large fridge well stocked with beer and bacon
[06:54] <daveake> Seriously, that's all we have :p
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[07:01] <tweetBot> @daveake: GoPro snap as the flight came in to land in the mountains http://t.co/WO8HRYLskq #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
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[07:07] <Rebounder> daveake: url to flight?
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[07:08] <daveake> sorry?
[07:08] <LeoBodnar> morning
[07:08] <daveake> morning
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[07:10] <fsphil> morning. blah. 8am
[07:11] <Upu> it is indeed
[07:11] <daveake> 9am
[07:11] <Upu> heh
[07:12] <daveake> I bet the weather is different too :p
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[07:12] <fsphil> sunny here
[07:14] <Rebounder> daveake: you have an url for your launchens?
[07:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Morning People :-)
[07:17] <craag> Rebounder: Tracking at http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[07:17] <daveake> Yes, but not this one yet
[07:17] <daveake> I have a blog and the flight is on spacenear now
[07:18] <daveake> But the blog will have to wait
[07:18] <daveake> Preparing for tomorrow's launch
[07:18] <craag> Best thing seems to be to follow him on twitter! @daveake
[07:18] <daveake> :-)
[07:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> How has the plan changed for tomorrow daveake? - Good Morning
[07:21] <daveake> We're going to re-do that launch, but with a much lighter release box and a 2000g hwoyee
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[07:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Any suggestions on how we can get you some more listeners?
[07:23] <daveake> I don't, no
[07:23] <daveake> Was hoping we'd get one or two
[07:23] <Upu> might be worth a quick tweet to...
[07:23] <Upu> 1 sec
[07:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> When you announce it I'll retweet it, I@m sure everyone else will
[07:23] <Upu> @AlEspacius
[07:24] <Upu> you had one listener in Spain
[07:24] <Upu> and a few in southern France
[07:24] <Upu> but you didn't make it high enough
[07:24] <daveake> yup
[07:24] <daveake> Well fingers crossed ...
[07:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> I did remote into Barcelona but same issue
[07:24] <daveake> Yeah that's right on the edge
[07:24] <daveake> sodding big country
[07:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep
[07:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> I didn't post it on the RSGB Facebook page for fear of flaming!
[07:25] <Upu> antenna isn't right on Barcelona
[07:25] <Upu> HF Dipole
[07:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> No, it sounded very quiet Upu
[07:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> The Toulouse one was hopless too
[07:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> hopeless even
[07:26] <WillDWork> Spain may have better weather and more 'relaxed' rules - but if there're limited trackers then the outcome was always going to be a tricky one
[07:27] <daveake> The aim was for it to land in the plains. In which case we'd have had it almost down to the ground
[07:27] <WillDWork> i wouldn't have minded a little holiday over there ;)
[07:27] <Upu> There was a time when there were 2-3 trackers in the UK
[07:28] <daveake> We only lost it when it dropped past a mountain, and when was switching between payloads
[07:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> I take it that you couldn't get permission to do the mission in the UK?
[07:30] <daveake> Yup
[07:31] <daveake> Also, for a "small" flight (<4kg I think it is) you need no notam so you can change the launch site to suit the predictions
[07:31] <daveake> Plus, Lester lives here
[07:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sounds ideal really (except for lack of trackers)
[07:32] <daveake> And silly price for the helium
[07:32] <daveake> and they don't seel hydrogen
[07:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> silly good?
[07:32] <daveake> silly > double UK
[07:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Blimey!
[07:32] <fsphil> inflation?
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[07:33] Action: daveake wipes the dust off that pun
[07:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
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[07:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anything going on today daveake?
[07:34] <daveake> Prep for tomorrow
[07:34] <daveake> So don't get excited if you see my trackers pop up on the map :)
[07:35] <DL1SGP> :)
[07:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Ping us if we can do anything remotely
[07:35] <daveake> Tell all the Spanish hams to take tomorrow off work :)
[07:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D Will do
[07:36] <SP3OSJ> Hi, you know when it's time start Leo Bodnar B13?
[07:36] <DL1SGP> the issue with the remote receivers on Globaltuners in that area is that the Toulousy one only does AM and the one in Barcelona La Salle is equipped for HF
[07:36] <fsphil> we'd need someone there to setup a temporary remote receiver
[07:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> As I discovered DL1SGP
[07:37] <DL1SGP> G0TDJ_Steve: sighs, yea shame ...
[07:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> BRB - Brekkie :-)
[07:37] <fsphil> but that doesn't really gain anything over just them tracking it themselves
[07:40] <fsphil> basically we all need to be flown to spain :)
[07:40] <DL1SGP> great plan
[07:42] <WillDWork> i like that idea
[07:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm up for that
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[07:42] <DL1SGP> Let's ask FlyBe! lol
[07:42] <daveake> EasyHAB
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[07:43] <daveake> Get our Danish listener down. Brian Air
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[07:45] <DL1SGP> I will come in by a wingbeat of my GermanWings
[07:52] <WillDWork> does anyone use a telescopic mast in their radio setup? - if so - any recommendations?
[07:52] <daveake> I do. Not sure I'd recommend it.
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[07:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> daveake: Are you going to launch from the same place on Thurs?
[07:56] <daveake> doubt it
[07:57] <daveake> I'll check the predictions today and see where's best
[07:57] <daveake> This is a luxury I want to use again :)
[07:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK I'm preparing a tweet in Spanish via Google translate (LOL)
[07:57] <daveake> lol
[07:57] <DL1SGP> hehe
[07:57] <daveake> Lester speaks Spanish I can get it checked for you
[07:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ballpark launch time?
[07:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh cool
[07:57] <daveake> no idea
[07:58] <daveake> wait till we've run predictions and I have a clue
[07:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[07:58] <tweetBot> @daveake: A #RaspberryPi camera took this picture just seconds before landing http://t.co/Y2ydHHbatG #UKHAS
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[07:59] <fsphil> man those ninja goats are really stealthy, no sign of them at all
[08:00] <daveake> lol
[08:00] <daveake> brb breakfast
[08:01] <DL1SGP> have a good meal :D
[08:02] Action: DL1SGP hopes daveake gets a full British Breakfast in the area he is in
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[08:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not seen that before, I just refreshed tracker and there's not a single payload on the map
[08:06] <mfa298> WillDWork: I've got a telescopic mast that I've used for a few events but dont use one permanently.
[08:07] <fsphil> it was cleared this-morning G0TDJ_Steve
[08:07] <mfa298> We've also found a fibreglass pole is great for sticking rope over high tree branches wich can then be used to hang a variety of antennas
[08:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> First time I've ever seen it totally clear
[08:08] <mfa298> I'm sure a clear map can be solved quickly by a few people testing
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[08:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> For anyone interested in military aircraft listening/tracking, there's a couple of F51es flying around in the North Sea near Scarborough. You can track them on www.flightradar24.com search for Best11 or Strik31
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[08:31] <Hix> F51? or 15
[08:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry, F15e
[08:32] <Hix> ah, thought I'd missed something there :)
[08:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm not known for my typing prowess :-)
[08:33] <Hix> I'll not comment on typing skills
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[08:35] <mfa298> putt knot yore trussed inn spill chequers
[08:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Definitely not
[08:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> A friend of mine was typing an e-mail on tech support and apologizing for an application out of service, his e-mail eventually read " We apologise for any incontinence caused"
[08:41] <DL1SGP> heh
[08:42] <gonzo_> one of our eng used to the the following email sign off, before mgmnt moaned
[08:43] <gonzo_> xxxx accepts no responsibility for any losses, damages, blindness, head injuries, loss of limbs, fatalities or embarrassing bodily noises resulting from the use or mis-use of this information
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[08:48] <fsphil> boo managers
[08:51] <Hix> probably banned it as it wasn't in Comic Sans
[08:52] <Hix> all corporate signatures are supposed to be in Comic, in lurid colours
[08:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Comic Sans??? Even the guy who designed it has disowned it.
[08:54] <Hix> Best11 seems to have been shot down
[08:54] <Hix> no longer squawking
[08:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> I was wondering where it went. Possibly to mask landing point?
[08:55] <adamgreig> I thought the guy who designed it stood behind it actually?
[08:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> He did at first adamgreig...
[08:56] <Hix> http://goo.gl/iiFfWI
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[08:56] <Hix> Vincent Connare
[08:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hix - We think the two F15's were up to support GTI8564 in it's transit across the North Sea
[08:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> I must have read a hoax about it...(Comic Sans)
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[08:58] <mfa298> from the link that was posted about comic sans last week I got the impression that the guy that created it agreed that it's mis-used a lot although possibly hasn't actually disowned it
[08:58] <Hix> seems to be a few days of ops in that area G0TDJ_Steve http://www.notaminfo.com/nationalmap areas 5 and 6 bounded by red - FL050-650
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[08:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers Hix Looks like it
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[09:02] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi James
[09:02] <Hix> hi jcoxon
[09:05] <Upu> morning
[09:05] <fsphil> hehe, I wasn't the only one who noticed the Thor / Greenwich thing
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[09:11] <jcoxon> fsphil, got you F4 yet?
[09:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hix: BEST11 back on the map if you're interested
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[09:19] <fsphil> he's too quick
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[09:37] <tweetBot> @daveake: Some images taken by the #RaspberryPi camera during yesterday's flight #UKHAS @Raspberry_Pi @regspb #UKHAS http://t.co/oaQQVT4f4L
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[09:39] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[09:39] <fsphil> nice moon shots
[09:40] <DL7AD> .
[09:40] <DL7AD> good morning
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[09:40] <daveake> I like the shots of the landscape it landed in
[09:41] <DL1SGP> good morning Sven, great pictures dave
[09:41] <M6GTG> Look a bit like the Viking lander shots dave ;-)
[09:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Nice
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[09:43] <fsphil> yea the landing shot is brilliant
[09:43] <fsphil> or the just-about-to-land shot
[09:43] <fsphil> great timing there
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[09:46] <daveake> yeah love that one
[09:48] <fsphil> no shots after landing?
[09:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> willdwork, Whst type portable or fixed ? This firm is good http://www.tennamast.com/
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[09:54] <birilloso> hello
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> FYI I have booked the advanced ham exam just now. You don't need need to have passed any other exams or have licence to book it. Obviously you need to pass intermediate to sit it.
[09:55] <daveake> fsphil Yes. Dirt.
[09:55] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: curious. cool.
[09:55] <adamgreig> I would say good luck but it's not like you need it :P
[09:55] <birilloso> is there anybody from italy? this weekend I will launch a balloon... just in case there is anybody interested
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[09:56] <birilloso> launch from italy, rome
[09:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Hi birilloso, any more details ?
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[09:57] <birilloso> hwoyee 1000, payload 270gr
[09:57] <birilloso> max altitude 36300m
[09:58] <Hix> Frequency, callsign etc?
[09:58] <Hix> or no radio tracker?
[09:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Probably outside our tracking range in the UK but freq, etc. ?
[09:58] <birilloso> payload is made of: cheap MD80 camera, cheap TK102 tracker, cheap salt and cheap hand warmer
[09:58] <birilloso> no radio, no frequencies, etc
[09:59] <birilloso> oh, and a parachute :)
[09:59] <gonzo_> LeoBodnar, I understand that you must have first passed the foundation and intermediate courses.
[09:59] <birilloso> very cheap launch
[09:59] <x-f> salt?
[10:00] <birilloso> I think it's called salt; it's a substance which absorbs humidity in the air
[10:00] <birilloso> probably it's also called silica
[10:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is in the lens for moisture ?
[10:01] <x-f> ah, right
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> gonzo_: don't need them to book it
[10:01] <fsphil> silica gel
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> thanks adamgreig
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> but need them when it comes to taking the test gonzo_
[10:02] <Hix> Hi LeoBodnar did you have any luck getting any W.NA trackers to listen out for B12?
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> We need some trackers in Italy, haven't seen a single one yet.
[10:03] <gonzo_> LeoBodnar, that sounds correct. As I have heard that some places do a fast-track, running all the courses toge5ther
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> No, USA has no trackers
[10:04] <Hix> dagnammit
[10:06] <birilloso> well, I was trying to buy silica gel, but I couldn't find it
[10:07] <birilloso> i'm not sure, but i think i bought calcium chloride
[10:07] <daveake> Don't bother doesn't work
[10:08] <gonzo_> LeoBodnar, I think I am correct in saying, that you don't actually have to do any courses for foundation/intermediate. Just attend for the assessment and exams. For intermmediate I think that could be a day though. As there is a construction project to do (velleman kit or similar)
[10:08] <adamgreig> yea, courses are strictly optional, but
[10:08] <adamgreig> foundation and intermediate both have a practical requirement
[10:09] <adamgreig> so you must complete the practical assessment before you may sit the respective exam
[10:09] <gonzo_> that was the assessment bit
[10:09] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: I'm email Exeter uni about Argos
[10:09] <adamgreig> but you don't have to have passed the foundation exam to perform the intermediate practical
[10:09] <adamgreig> oh right
[10:09] <adamgreig> yea the intermediate does need some kind of assembly thing, that's right
[10:09] <adamgreig> anything you soldered yourself seems to be basically ok
[10:09] <birilloso> how much would it cost a cheap radio tracker?
[10:10] <mfa298> from memory intermediate requires wiring a plug, soldering a pl259 and a small related electronics project
[10:10] <gonzo_> given the size of leo's trackers. the old lasd at the clubs would need to get their best ghlasses to see his soldering!
[10:10] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: no im not
[10:10] <Laurenceb> better idea : http://www.smru.st-and.ac.uk/Instrumentation/Overview/
[10:10] <Hix> pretty cheap birilloso check out www.habduino.org
[10:10] <mfa298> although I'm not sure you have to do the project there and then
[10:11] <gonzo_> ugh, pl259. I'd refuse. I won't use them
[10:11] <adamgreig> mfa298: I brought in a thing I'd done before
[10:11] <adamgreig> pretty sure the soldering of the project doesn't have to be there and then
[10:11] <adamgreig> but yea, plug wiring and pl259 is
[10:11] <adamgreig> I think you can do an sma alternatively maybe?
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[10:12] <gonzo_> actually, can't remember the last time I wired a mains plug either. They are all premoulded these days
[10:12] <mfa298> I'm not sure the type of plug is defined - but pl259's tend to be cheap and common so get used
[10:12] <gonzo_> I tend to lop the end off an IEC lead and wire that in to the kit
[10:12] <adamgreig> I use IEC inlets
[10:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.smru.st-and.ac.uk/Instrumentation/downloads/SRDL%20Activation.pdf
[10:12] <adamgreig> much nicer ;)
[10:13] <gonzo_> them too
[10:13] <Laurenceb> looks like they have their own data system
[10:13] <gonzo_> brought a q-max cutter for IEC inlets, for that reason
[10:13] <mfa298> I've re-wired a few 4 ways and plugs when I've wanted to change the flex length - or run the cable through a small hole. But that's not done that often
[10:14] <birilloso> hix: I can see the project details on that site, but I didn't find prices for the components
[10:14] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: emailing St-Andrews
[10:14] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: you might want to try the NOC too
[10:14] <mattbrejza> http://noc.ac.uk/
[10:14] <LeoBodnar> I have done both foundation and intermediate practical requirements. Had to solder a silly resistor and a bulb circuit
[10:15] <Laurenceb> ok
[10:15] <adamgreig> did you have to use an analogue multimeter? :P
[10:15] <ed__> birilloso: better to build a tracker yourself from scratch - it's what most people do and you'll learn a lot
[10:15] <adamgreig> and investigate the current-voltage behaviour of a diode?
[10:16] <Hix> birilloso ask Upu
[10:16] <gonzo_> LeoBodnar, so you just need to do the foundation/intermmediate exams and talk on the radio bit?
[10:16] <birilloso> ed__: thanks :-) do you know some website that sells arduino components? How much would it cost (only hardware) to build the radio tracker?
[10:17] <birilloso> just a very approximate number
[10:17] <mattbrejza> ¬60 maybe
[10:17] <mattbrejza> youll need some sort of radio though
[10:17] <mfa298> just read the intermediate sylabus, you don't even need to solder the rf connector
[10:17] <mfa298> 10d.7: Fit a suitable RF connector (PL259, BNC or N-type) to a piece of coaxial cable.
[10:18] <birilloso> mattbrejza: so ¬60 + radio, correct?
[10:18] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:18] <Hix> birilloso Upu has a store http://ava.upuaut.net/store/ but it is down for maintenance this morning. He offers a discount on here. The trackduino is a shield for Uno etc
[10:18] <daveake> And if it's a PL259 and you intend to use it for UHF, you fail? :p
[10:18] <Hix> birilloso quite a few people use RTLSDR dongles for recievers
[10:18] <gonzo_> I had to demo fitting to heliax recently. That's hacksaw terratory!
[10:18] <ed__> woo a positive response
[10:18] <ed__> the battle isn't over
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[10:19] <gonzo_> birilloso, a gps rx breakout board and NTX2 from the UKHAS shop. And some batteries
[10:21] <ramm25> LeoBodnar, ?@825B. >B25B8;8 <=5 A @048>A:0==5@0: 0?8H8B5 51<0AB5@C. ;O @538AB@0F88 >B :0=4840B0 B@51C5BAO =8: (?@>25@LB5, GB>1K =5 1K; 70=OB) 8 459AB2CNI89 e-mail: info@radioscanner.ru
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[10:23] <Hix> is that some news on B11?
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[10:29] <Laurenceb> emails ent
[10:31] <Laurenceb> looks like the st-andrews team build their own hardware and run a telemetry server
[10:31] <Laurenceb> so seems hopeful
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[10:37] <LeoBodnar> A?0A81> ramm25 !
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[10:37] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: have you already got a reply from Exeter Uni?
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> Or ARgis is abandoned already?
[10:38] <ramm25> LeoBodnar ?60;C9AB0
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[10:44] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: i didnt bother emailing exeter
[10:44] <Laurenceb> looks like st-andrews is a way better idea
[10:46] <Laurenceb> haha
[10:46] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NOAA-N%27_accident.jpg
[10:47] <Laurenceb> smashed argos sat
[10:47] <adamgreig> argos runs on noaa sats?
[10:47] <Laurenceb> yup
[10:48] <adamgreig> huh
[10:48] <Laurenceb> NOAA is co-operating with CNES now
[10:48] <mattbrejza> i thought that was NOAA 19 rather than anything argos related?
[10:48] <Laurenceb> it carries argos
[10:48] <mattbrejza> mm didnt realise that
[10:49] <ramm25> http://youtu.be/34cypuq8iSQ
[10:49] <ramm25> real crash
[10:49] <Laurenceb> " Repairs to the satellite cost $135 million" lolwut
[10:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~map/weather/notes/2003-06-03_noaa-n_prime_anomaly.jpg
[10:51] <Laurenceb> lol the filename
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> talked already gonzo_ and have the prctical bit signed off just need to sit the paper tests
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> oops, time lag
[10:56] <Hix> wasn't that down to a lack of documentation on the removal of the bolts and whos resonsibility it was to check they hadn't been removed
[10:57] <Laurenceb> it was an "anomaly"
[10:57] <adamgreig> yea Hix
[10:57] <adamgreig> "oops"
[10:57] <Laurenceb> im going to say that now whenever anything goes wrong
[10:57] <adamgreig> bet at least one head rolled
[10:57] <Hix> lackofcommonsenseallround
[10:57] <adamgreig> seriously who the heck went into the mounting plate _in storage_ and thought
[10:57] <adamgreig> "haha i know"
[10:58] <adamgreig> "i will take all 24 bolts out"
[10:58] <adamgreig> like, what, did they need them for another project?
[10:58] <adamgreig> run out of bolts?
[10:58] <adamgreig> I bet they had that awful sinking "oh shit" feeling when the satellite started to topple
[10:58] <adamgreig> $135,000,000 in damage... those things are crazy expensive.
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[10:59] <LeoBodnar> Maybe short bolts?
[11:00] <Hix> probably factoring in design and research costs
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: yes - they needed them for another similar fixture
[11:00] Nick change: Hix -> HixLunch
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> Reminds me of a captain sucked out of the window due to shorter screws used on a cockpit glass frame
[11:01] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: oh god.
[11:01] <adamgreig> :|
[11:01] <adamgreig> how many millions of dollars for the sake of 24 bolts
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> It's often interesting to read these accident reports.
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> It's rarely just one simple cause.
[11:02] <adamgreig> yea.
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> I mean - sure - it was the guy that undid the bolts.
[11:02] <adamgreig> postmortems are great
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> But - why did he - and what was he forced to do
[11:02] <adamgreig> yup. you can just keep popping that why stack
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[11:03] <mfa298> and then you find the investigation has cost as much in time as the actual accident cost.
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> Which can be OK if you want to avoid another.
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[11:21] <Mik_WD8MNV> *IF* B-12 is passing over west coast of USA... it is doing so in darkness, so it wouldn't be active anyway.
[11:22] <Laurenceb> arg
[11:22] <Laurenceb> this is why we need Argos :P
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> Mik_WD8MNV: 16 UTC is sunrise and this is when it makes the landfall
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> This prediction contains solar flux chart http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/NOAA.gif
[11:22] <mattbrejza> so you still thinking of DIY'ing the radio?
[11:23] <Laurenceb> mattbrejza: dunno
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[11:23] <Laurenceb> st-andrews seem to be making their own radios
[11:23] <Laurenceb> ill see if they get back to me
[11:23] <mattbrejza> its only 400baud BPSK, should be easy :P
[11:23] <Laurenceb> yeah - i was wondering if it was doable with silabs pll
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> heck yes (using Dynamite's voice)
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> I want to hack Silabs to do bpsk
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> it is not impossible
[11:24] <mattbrejza> i would have thought you would have needed the nice 'classic' BPSK waveform
[11:24] <Laurenceb> _if_ a logic 1 could be made to flip the phase 180degrees
[11:25] <Darkside> mattbrejza: it'll still decode
[11:25] <Darkside> it'll just use a heap more bandwidth
[11:25] <mattbrejza> rather than having a quick frequency increase to cause a phase switch (which im assuming is how you do it)
[11:25] <Darkside> but 'a heap more' only means a few KHz
[11:25] <Darkside> on HF that matters, at UHF, it doesnt
[11:25] <Laurenceb> then you could transmit a large fsk bit sequence to do the bpsf
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> Sea mammal research unit PCB has non-tented vias lolz
[11:25] <mattbrejza> well how much BW does the spec say you can use?
[11:25] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: lol
[11:25] <Darkside> mattbrejza: it doesn't
[11:26] <Darkside> well
[11:26] <Darkside> mattbrejza: pulse shaped BPSK31 has a necessary bandwidth of symbol rate Hz
[11:26] <Darkside> i.e. 31.25Hz
[11:26] <Darkside> howver, the decoder only cares about that centre 31.25Hz
[11:26] <Darkside> anything outside of it, it doesnt look at
[11:26] <Darkside> so you can have a very wide BPSK waveform, with lots of sidebands, and it'll still decode
[11:26] <Laurenceb> the Argos band is 6okHz wide
[11:26] <Darkside> it'll just use a heap mor ebandwidth, which means wasted power
[11:26] <mattbrejza> ok
[11:27] <Darkside> the reason they do the pulse shaping is so the phase reversals dont cause interference
[11:27] <Laurenceb> if you could use the silabs modem, you could maybe try GFSK
[11:27] <Darkside> you *can* use linear phase ramping, and fldigi will decode it
[11:27] <Darkside> but it doesnt help much
[11:27] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:27] <Darkside> it doesnt reduce the bandwidth that much
[11:28] <Darkside> i had a go at found raised cosine phase transitions
[11:28] <mattbrejza> could you get a MSK modem to do it?
[11:28] <Darkside> and that still didn't help
[11:28] <Darkside> i dunno
[11:28] <Darkside> technically you can do PSK with FM
[11:28] <Darkside> but i dunno how you actually implement that
[11:28] <Laurenceb> depends of the minutia of the silabs modem
[11:28] <Darkside> yeah
[11:28] <Darkside> but don't expect it to look pretty in a waterfall
[11:28] <Darkside> it
[11:29] <Darkside> it'll be wide
[11:29] <Laurenceb> hmm
[11:29] <Darkside> as long as it decodes, who cares
[11:29] <mattbrejza> if this is the msk constellation, you all need to do is go 00->01->11 for a bit? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pi-by-O-QPSK_Gray_Coded.svg
[11:29] <Laurenceb> im not convinced
[11:29] <Laurenceb> it wont be as wide as abrupt phase transition bpsk
[11:29] <Darkside> yes
[11:29] <Darkside> you'll narrow th eoccupied spectrum
[11:29] <Laurenceb> cuz its basically a phase ramp
[11:29] <Darkside> but you wont get it to 31.25Hz
[11:29] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: for msk yea but it's gross
[11:29] <Laurenceb> of course not
[11:29] <Darkside> but yeah
[11:29] <adamgreig> you'd have to run at a way high bit rate
[11:29] <Darkside> as long as its within a few hundred Hz, who cares
[11:29] <adamgreig> actually considering, you could just run at a way high bit rate
[11:30] <Darkside> i got to about 200HZ with phase ramping
[11:30] <adamgreig> wonder if that would work
[11:30] <Darkside> ok gtg, bus
[11:30] <adamgreig> I think my adf7012 can do msk in theory
[11:30] <Laurenceb> yeah - high bit rate with the existing modem
[11:30] <adamgreig> msk is just fsk with shift=baud really
[11:30] <Laurenceb> like 4kbps or something
[11:30] <adamgreig> hmmmmm
[11:30] <adamgreig> but the adf7012 doesn't even do a clock
[11:30] <adamgreig> so like
[11:30] <adamgreig> I'm not really sure what trigging a phase swap would look like
[11:31] <adamgreig> depends how the fsk on it works
[11:31] <adamgreig> if I set the deviation to be huge I guess I could just flip one way and back again very quickly
[11:31] <mattbrejza> that document i have is a bit useless really for helping us here
[11:31] <adamgreig> but I can't see that being reliable
[11:31] <mattbrejza> also we dont have a reciever knocking around to test with
[11:31] <adamgreig> since the pll presumably has to retune after I shift
[11:32] <adamgreig> though I'm not even clear that it does fsk by screwing with the pll
[11:32] <adamgreig> apparently it can frequency hop no problem though
[11:32] <adamgreig> and yet it doesn't offer MSK as a mode
[11:33] <mattbrejza> i would have thought it just changes the fractional N value?
[11:33] <adamgreig> I guess because the communication line only has one bit
[11:33] <adamgreig> so it can't do msk
[11:33] <adamgreig> as you can't indicate which direction to change on the constellation
[11:33] <mattbrejza> ithought MSK is just FSK but with the shift set to 1/2baud, so you could do it with an ntx2?
[11:33] <adamgreig> 1/2baud or =baud?
[11:33] <adamgreig> and yea, it does just change N for the PLL
[11:34] <adamgreig> when you toggle the io line
[11:34] <mattbrejza> na 1/2 baud
[11:34] <adamgreig> hmmm
[11:34] <mattbrejza> ref: wikipedia :P
[11:34] <adamgreig> lol k
[11:34] <adamgreig> uhm
[11:34] <adamgreig> are you sure it's not deviation to 1/2 baud
[11:34] <adamgreig> thus total shfit is baud?
[11:34] <adamgreig> well anyway
[11:34] <adamgreig> not sure it's relevant
[11:34] <adamgreig> I can't do msk on this without two bits input?
[11:35] <mattbrejza> no i think it only needs 1
[11:35] <adamgreig> if it was just fsk with half the baud, how do you control which direction you go on the constellation?
[11:35] <mattbrejza> that diagmra i showed was more OQPSK
[11:35] <Laurenceb> hmm
[11:35] <Laurenceb> yeah if phase always increases
[11:35] <Laurenceb> isnt that like increasing the freuqency
[11:36] <adamgreig> so you can definitely kind of fake bpsk by just whamming the frequency up briefly
[11:36] <adamgreig> and dropping it back
[11:36] <adamgreig> the phase advances
[11:36] <adamgreig> and if you do it in 180 deg chunks
[11:36] <adamgreig> it basically flips each time
[11:36] <Laurenceb> i guess they use a costas loop on the sat
[11:36] <mattbrejza> the timing would have to be pretty good though?
[11:36] <Laurenceb> so it shouldnt matter
[11:36] <adamgreig> so you flip phase by shooting up to some high frequency briefly and coming back
[11:36] <adamgreig> but yes
[11:36] <Laurenceb> that phase only ever goes one way
[11:36] <adamgreig> you'd need a) precise timing b) coherent fsk modulation
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[11:37] <adamgreig> idk if the adf could do either
[11:37] <adamgreig> might be fun to play though, my bladerf could definitely capture it and see
[11:37] <mattbrejza> by coherent you mean continous phase?
[11:37] <Laurenceb> silabs might be able to if the modem can do it
[11:37] <mattbrejza> it should be
[11:37] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: yea
[11:37] <adamgreig> it's a pll
[11:37] <adamgreig> being shifted
[11:37] <adamgreig> so yea
[11:37] <Laurenceb> - modem can do the right timing
[11:37] <adamgreig> but idk how the pll will cope with a huge deviation
[11:38] <adamgreig> but in theory this thing can do 180kbps
[11:38] <Laurenceb> im going to have to read the datasheet now
[11:38] <Laurenceb> arg
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> You can swap dipole antennas
[11:38] <mattbrejza> so no one cba with an external mixer + PA?
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> 2 swicthes
[11:38] <gonzo_> or use a dbm and use that as a phase mosulator?
[11:38] <adamgreig> s'hard mattbrejza
[11:38] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: better
[11:38] <adamgreig> hmmm
[11:38] <adamgreig> my pll lock time depends on how good my pll loop filter is
[11:38] <Laurenceb> you can use a balun
[11:38] <adamgreig> which is not great
[11:38] <adamgreig> so a bit concerned there
[11:39] <Laurenceb> to do that
[11:39] <Laurenceb> annoyingly simple BPSK wont work for Argos
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> tracker is small so pretty much ~ balanced output
[11:39] <Laurenceb> you need a QPSK
[11:39] <Laurenceb> to do the startup sequence
[11:39] <mattbrejza> http://www.analog.com/en/rfif-components/mixersmultipliers/adl5350/products/product.html look how simple it seems...
[11:40] <Laurenceb> well - a midway phase
[11:40] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: where in the docs does it say that?
[11:40] <Laurenceb> i forget sorry
[11:40] <Laurenceb> one of those 3 pdf documents
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[11:41] <Laurenceb> the tuneup pulse is widway phase
[11:41] <mattbrejza> 3.1.3 Carrier wave (CW) preamble bit?
[11:41] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:41] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: so in theory I can have a 150kHz deviation
[11:41] <adamgreig> for 300kHz total shift
[11:41] <adamgreig> I think
[11:41] <adamgreig> (!)
[11:41] <adamgreig> probably missed a digit there or something but it's a lot
[11:41] <mattbrejza> whats the difference between deviation and shift here?
[11:41] <adamgreig> though I'm not sure how the modulation works
[11:42] <adamgreig> uhm
[11:42] <adamgreig> shift = 2*deviation (from centre)
[11:42] <mattbrejza> oh right
[11:42] <adamgreig> like, 300kHz is still a puny fraction of the 434MHz carrier
[11:42] <adamgreig> but at demodulated baseband
[11:42] <Laurenceb> you talking about silabs?
[11:42] <adamgreig> that's huge
[11:42] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: no adf7012
[11:42] <keydash> hello
[11:42] <Laurenceb> got you
[11:42] <adamgreig> so if you downmod the bottom tone
[11:42] <adamgreig> to be like, 1kHz
[11:43] <adamgreig> then every time I hit the IO line, it goes 300x the frequency
[11:43] <adamgreig> so will complete a phase transition in like, no time at all
[11:43] <adamgreig> need to be precise with how long I hold the line high and it's gotta snap around sharpish
[11:43] <adamgreig> but in theory I guess that might look like bpsk
[11:43] <adamgreig> interesting
[11:43] <adamgreig> if that works then my reverse gps idea is back on the cards
[11:45] Nick change: HixLunch -> Hix
[11:46] <adamgreig> though the amount of time you had to spend at the higher freq would appear to depend on the receiver's tuning frequency
[11:46] <adamgreig> lol
[11:46] <adamgreig> that doesn't sound right
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> You can use internal packet engine to generate single timed pulse to kick the phase 180 degrees
[11:50] <ed__> i've managed to layout Spaceship 1
[11:50] <ed__> http://i.imgur.com/2Aa8d9B.png
[11:50] <mattbrejza> you cant route under the device?
[11:51] <ed__> other shit going there
[11:51] <mattbrejza> ah
[11:51] <ed__> and it's much harder to decouple
[11:52] <mattbrejza> what IC is that?
[11:52] <adamgreig> looks cool
[11:53] <mattbrejza> symmetrical PCBs are always nice though
[11:53] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: where is the silabs register description?
[11:58] <Laurenceb> oh theres an xls
[11:58] <Laurenceb> nvm
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> Half of them are undocumented Laurenceb
[12:03] <Laurenceb> ewww
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/EZRadioPRO-API.zip
[12:03] <Laurenceb> yeah from the xls it looks like a few millihertz of data dependant drift
[12:03] <Laurenceb> so would appear to work
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> But most undocumented ones are related to tuning digital RX path
[12:06] <Laurenceb> yeah same deal with the earlier stuff
[12:06] <Laurenceb> xls is giving me silly errors
[12:06] <Laurenceb> seems its windows only
[12:10] <Laurenceb> looks like a ~70 degree data dependant phase shift over the entire packet
[12:10] <Laurenceb> that should work ok
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[12:19] <Laurenceb> well maybe.. the costas loop on Argos is quite tight
[12:20] <Laurenceb> but it seems <30degrees is possible by choosing the right baud rate for the phase flipping
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> freq deviation on Si446x can be massive and bps is high too, i don't think the PLL loop will keep track of such a quick change.
[12:21] <Laurenceb> which PLL loop?
[12:22] <nats`> you want to do PSK ?
[12:23] <Laurenceb> i think the silabs PLL has to remain locked?
[12:24] <Laurenceb> tho i dont understand this stuff very well
[12:24] <Laurenceb> having said that it will work with just a few kHz frequency deviation
[12:25] <mattbrejza> so if the PLL cant keep up, what method do you think it uses to tx with 200kHz deviation?
[12:26] <Laurenceb> ^what i was thinking
[12:28] <Laurenceb> from the documentation it looks like argos costas loop bandwidth is of order 1Hz or so
[12:28] <Laurenceb> so it needs to be fairly good bpsk, but not amazingly good
[12:29] <mattbrejza> we really need some sort of SDR program to test with though
[12:29] <Laurenceb> it has to pull in off the short sync pulse so it cant be that narrow
[12:29] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[12:31] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: RX PLL
[12:31] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:32] <Laurenceb> yeah thats the idea
[12:32] <Laurenceb> the rx pll loop bandwidth is like 2hz
[12:32] <Laurenceb> so it cant even see this
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> That's easy then
[12:32] <Laurenceb> just tracks the ground station doppler, not even the data
[12:32] <Laurenceb> thats how the positioning works
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> =not impossible
[12:33] <nats`> you're redoing GPS ?
[12:36] <Laurenceb> predoing
[12:36] <Laurenceb> this system dates from the 80s
[12:37] <mattbrejza> how much payload does a message have btw?
[12:37] <Laurenceb> up to 248bits
[12:37] <mattbrejza> oh thats loads
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[12:37] <mattbrejza> can transmit like the last days of data at once
[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[12:37] <Laurenceb> but wed want to enable FEC to get it to work well at 100mW
[12:37] <Laurenceb> which halves it
[12:37] <mattbrejza> oh
[12:38] <Laurenceb> but you can pay more for extra packet length
[12:38] <Laurenceb> up to 1Kbit or something
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[12:48] <malgar> where do you buy the balloons?
[12:49] <mattbrejza> the latex ones?
[12:52] <Hix> malgar http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
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[13:23] <iain_g4sgx_p> Very off topic but I know there's some Linux peeps out there. My PC often doesn't start properly, says its disabling irq 35 and then just cycles, never boots. To fix this I now unplug any USB device before starting then plug it on after booting which works fine. Any ideas?
[13:25] <Laurenceb> this is genius http://www.pnas.org/content/104/34/13705.full.pdf
[13:25] <Laurenceb> ocean monitoring using seal tags
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Try Windows .....
[13:25] <Laurenceb> hehe
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> ;-)
[13:25] <Laurenceb> trolololol
[13:28] <darkstar-2001> iain_g4sgx_p: I had a weird thing where my machine won't boot if I had my logitech joystick plugged in. Seems to be common with AMD machines - on the rare occasions I use it I remember to unplug it but not tried it for a while. Had no issues with any other usb devices but that one.
[13:31] <iain_g4sgx_p> Yeh, it's a ancient amd. Probably bad motherboard USB enumeration on reboot. Think ill have to put up with it.
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[13:41] <fsphil> nothing interesting in /var/log/messages ?
[13:47] <iain_g4sgx_p> Yes lots but can't find anything bad on boot or udev
[13:47] <tweetBot> @daveake: The Register's article on Monday's flight and yesterday's epic recovery #RaspberryPi #UKHAS http://t.co/4bQskdjUfQ & #lohanspaceplane
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[14:23] <Sven1987h> hi
[14:24] <DL1SGP> Guten Nachmittag Sven
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[14:24] <tweetBot> @daveake: Timelapse video of Monday's launch of a #RaspberryPi powered flight #UKHAS http://t.co/tyxvQ4lPRc
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[14:27] <Sven1987h> wohl er guten morgen :D
[14:27] <Sven1987h> Aber wünsche ich dir auch DL1SGP
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[14:33] Nick change: DL1SGP_ -> DL1SGP
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[14:54] <Lunar_LanderU> hi Sven1987h
[14:55] <M6GTG> love watching rockets launch Antares/Cygnus launch in 3 minutes
[14:55] <Mik_WD8MNV> is there a feed?
[14:55] <M6GTG> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
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[14:58] <Lunar_LanderU> liftoff
[15:03] <malgar> daveake: could you give me a detailed description of your hardware/software?
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[15:03] <tweetBot> @daveake: Second LOHAN test flight TOMORROW Spanish/Portuguese/SW French radio hams invited to listen on 434.075 and 434.650MHz! #hamr #UKHAS
[15:04] <daveake> varies
[15:04] <daveake> Sometimes AVR sometimes Pi
[15:04] <fsphil> and now and then, both
[15:04] <fsphil> AVRPi
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[15:05] <mattbrejza> does that ^ mean you intend to drop the plane thing tomorrow?
[15:05] <daveake> No just firing a rocket
[15:05] <daveake> motor
[15:05] <daveake> small one
[15:05] <mattbrejza> just to test the ignitor?
[15:06] <daveake> yup
[15:06] <daveake> Probably don't have enough gas to do the plane
[15:06] <daveake> So Paul is making up a small payload with the SPEARS board and the Pi board
[15:07] <Lunar_LanderU> ORBIT
[15:07] <mattbrejza> is it still using the oven timer thing?
[15:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hi daveake
[15:07] <Upu> caps were indeed needed there Lunar
[15:08] <daveake> noooooo
[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> well it is the first OSC Cygnus flight
[15:08] <mattbrejza> ah good :P
[15:08] <DL1SGP> :) Hi Lunar_LanderU, Upu, mattbrejza and of course welcome back daveake
[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> hi DL1SGP
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[15:08] <daveake> I told him if he still intended to use the oven timer, I was going to pack a hammer to "adjust" it with
[15:09] <M6GTG> that launch looked pretty much perfect!
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[15:10] <malgar> daveake: I'm interested in the one using Pi
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[15:10] <Lunar_LanderU> M6GTG: yeah
[15:11] <daveake> Pi + NTX2 + Ublox GPS + sensors
[15:11] <M6GTG> I wonder how it looked from New York?
[15:11] <daveake> I did a workshop at the conference; when I get back I'll put the notes and source code online
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[15:12] <M6GTG> the Cygnus control room looks more inpressive than the Antares one.. lol
[15:13] <daveake> Mine is better :p
[15:13] <M6GTG> yes dave I was looking at some of the pictures on the register
[15:15] Nick change: M6GTG -> M6GTG_nerdsville
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[15:16] <fsphil> I need a control room
[15:16] <fsphil> or just control
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[15:20] <M6GTG_nerdsville> fsphil: well I got a shed does that count?
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[15:22] <mewla4> daveake: dont know if my dongle will arrive in time , 60Km west of toulouse.
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[15:26] <daveake> Cool. Well this one should get fairly high - 37km expected - so you'll be within range
[15:26] <Mik_WD8MNV> anyone remember where to tune for B-12 in dl-fldigi?
[15:26] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: ^
[15:26] <Laurenceb> i think 434.500
[15:26] <LeoBodnar> 434.500 Mik_WD8MNV
[15:26] <Mik_WD8MNV> that's the dongle... but where on the audio stream...
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> About 1.2kHz USB
[15:27] <Mik_WD8MNV> k... got ya. thanks
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> Or just below 1kHz
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> It's been awhile :D
[15:28] <Mik_WD8MNV> nothing seen here... but listening
[15:28] <LeoBodnar> thanks!
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[15:29] <LeoBodnar> It should be over arko somewhere
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[15:43] <chris_4x1rf> LeoBodnar: any updated prediction for B11? I'm still monitoring here and streaming the audio feed...
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> chris_4x1rf: B-11 prediction is pretty much the same, it seems to be stuck over northern africa
[15:47] <chris_4x1rf> thanks, looks like it will be just outside of my radio range this saturday
[15:47] <chris_4x1rf> but maybe we'll get lucky :-)
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> :)
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: how sane are these predictions. If you do minor variations in the conditions.
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> The spread can be massive, it's a turbulent media
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[15:50] <chris_4x1rf> as I understand it, current prediction is based on another prediction who traced it from the last reported position to somewhere above Sahara desert, right?
[15:50] <AlfRob> Hi
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[15:52] <LeoBodnar> It's a point where it should have been based on archived data with daily altitude variations taken into account
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: yeah - I'm wondering if 'it's over the US' - has any meaning beyond 'i'ts over the uS, or france'.
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[15:57] <chris_4x1rf> thanks Leo! I'll carry on monitoring, just hope there are others listening to the feed: http://lantv.ds.pg.gda.pl:8080 (thanks to enkidu for the streaming!)
[15:59] <LeoBodnar> The probability of it being over the US is higher of it being over France.
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[17:52] <ike> so did B-11 and B-12 reappear somewhere?
[17:53] <bertrik> I tried to receive it earlier today, didn't see/hear anything (I'm in the netherlands)
[17:53] <nats`> the carriere may have drifted dramatically over one week no ?
[17:54] <bertrik> no, AFAIK the carrier is locked to GPS
[17:54] <nats`> are you sure ?
[17:54] <nats`> IIRC on B11 and 12 it's only tcxo
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[18:07] <fsphil> shouldn't drift that much
[18:07] <fsphil> they didn't drift much over the week they where being received
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[18:15] <jcoxon> evening all
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[18:23] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:39] <Laurenceb__> ooh K6RPT
[18:39] <Mik_WD8MNV> how often would B-12 be transmitting?
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[18:40] <mfa298> beeps every three seconds and dominoEX every 3-5 minutes (from memory)
[18:40] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[18:40] <Mik_WD8MNV> k... thanks
[18:40] <enkidu> SpeedEvil: we can use archived data, they are very accurate. Using them, it is alo over Africa
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[18:53] <malgar> where could I find a good guide about the ground antenna? How are made those of the ukhas network that I see on the tracker page?
[18:53] <malgar> the receiver is quite clear
[18:53] <malgar> and even the decoder
[18:53] <malgar> are the receiving antennas omnidirectionals?
[18:54] <mfa298> people use a range of antennas from homemade antennas through standard dualband colinears to espensive yagis
[18:55] <mfa298> the 2/70 colinears in a good location are good for most things on the home station.
[18:55] <malgar> is it omnidirectional?
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[18:56] <mfa298> you might need something a bit better (or a preamp) if you've got a long coax run or a reciever that isn't as sensitive
[18:56] <mfa298> colinears are generally omni directional
[18:56] <mfa298> yagi's are directional
[18:56] <Willdude123> ooh $25 coupon code for TI
[18:57] <Willdude123> I haven't ever head of TI doing much aside from calculators
[18:57] <malgar> mfa298: what if I start with and sdr usb that I already own?
[18:57] <Willdude123> Launch pad looks interesting
[18:57] <malgar> s/and/an
[18:57] <Willdude123> But no clue what I'd use it for
[18:59] <enkidu> mfa298: yagis are not expensive
[18:59] <mfa298> probably going to depend on how long the coax is between the antennas and the sdr and what coax you're using
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[19:00] <mfa298> enkidu: good yagi's tend to be expensive. there are cheap yagi's although the only benefit you get from them is being more directional (they don't have much more gain than a colinear)
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[19:02] <enkidu> mfa298: or diy yagis as SP3OSJ have
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[19:03] <mfa298> I think I covered that by starting with " homemade antennas "
[19:03] <enkidu> too tired after work
[19:04] <mfa298> but if someone is asking about antennas I'm not sure I'd recommend making a Yagi.
[19:04] <mfa298> buying something like the watson w-50 and some coax and getting it in a good location is probably the best bet there.
[19:04] <enkidu> omnidirectional is good only with filters
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[19:05] <malgar> mfa298: very interesting.. when you talk about the lenght of the coaxial.. how much is "too long"? :)
[19:05] <mfa298> I've used onmi antennas direct into a range of radios (including the rtl dongles) without issue
[19:06] <mfa298> how long you can get away with varies depending the the type of coax.
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[19:06] <chris_4x1> malgar: an easy DYI one is here: http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf
[19:07] <mfa298> but all coax will have loss which depends on the cable type and length. That loss figure means there's less signal and more noise for the reciever.
[19:08] <mfa298> 5m of rg58 will probably be ok, if you need longer something like rg213 will help, or you can use something like the habamp near the antenna to boost the signal.
[19:08] <malgar> mfa298: yes I understand well.. so the next qyestion is.. which coax?
[19:08] <mfa298> so antenna, short coax, habamp, long coax, receiver
[19:08] <malgar> ops you just answered
[19:09] <mfa298> with the rtl sdrs the habamp is potentially worth while getting anyway as it adds some filtering and will help boost the signal
[19:09] <malgar> habamp? :D high altitude ballon amplificator? is it something special or just a 434 amplifier?
[19:09] <malgar> 434mhz
[19:10] <Willdude123> One of my friends had a pro-censorship facebook post, http://imgur.com/rTDBx3L I've never understood how anyone can support it
[19:10] <craag> It's a pre-amp, with a SAW filter for the 434MHz ISM band.
[19:10] <malgar> craag: is ready to buy? where?
[19:10] <mfa298> it's got a filter for 434Mhz and an amplifier from http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=common/home (but you'll have to wait for the hab store to reopen)
[19:10] <craag> malgar: You can get it off Hab Supplies, hopefully next week.
[19:10] <malgar> ok perfect :)
[19:11] <craag> I've got one here and they do boost the rtl-sdr's performance up a lot.
[19:12] <Willdude123> Do hackvana make the habamp pcbs?
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[19:15] <malgar> supposing a colinear antenna, habamp and rtl-sdr.. how much is the typical range? I know that it depends by the transmitter but let suppose the stanadart radio module and 1/4 wave antenna?
[19:16] <mfa298> depends on where the payload is.
[19:16] <Upu> depends on altitude
[19:16] <mfa298> on the ground 1km or two if you're lucky
[19:16] <Upu> anywhere between 500 meters and 500 kilometers
[19:17] <Upu> I've had 650km from a colinear
[19:17] <Upu> payload was very high though
[19:17] <malgar> I ask this because I live on alps and I would like to receive some signal from launches from germany for example. I could go on a peak to extend the line of sight
[19:18] <malgar> alps-italy
[19:18] <Upu> depends how high up you are and which side of the mountain you're on
[19:18] <malgar> Upu: obviously
[19:18] <Upu> could have done with you :)
[19:18] <malgar> let say 2500m
[19:18] <Upu> I landed a payload on a hill in Austria
[19:18] <Upu> your range at that altitude will be significant
[19:19] <malgar> unify: are you from germany?
[19:19] <Upu> I get way out of the radio horizon and I'm 300 meters asl
[19:19] <bertrik> I use range in km = 3.5 times square root (height in m) as an approximation
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[19:22] <Laurenceb__> meanwhile in oxford http://www.dailyinfo.co.uk/boxadfolder/aug2013/planner_2014.jpg
[19:22] <tweetBot> @daveake: Edited GoPro video of the LOHAN test flight http://t.co/pmj1Ont5ff #UKHAS
[19:23] <malgar> Upu: where are you from?
[19:23] <Upu> UK
[19:24] <Upu> have you read the story of when I sent a balloon your way ?
[19:24] <malgar> from uk to austria? yes! jet streams?
[19:25] <malgar> did you recover it?
[19:25] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=522
[19:25] <Upu> that one
[19:25] <Upu> yeah
[19:25] <Upu> Radim from Slovakia drove to Austria
[19:25] <Upu> climbed up the mountain
[19:25] <Upu> and recovered
[19:25] <Upu> quite epic
[19:28] <malgar> what an adventure!!!
[19:28] <malgar> fantastic
[19:28] <malgar> where exactly in austria?
[19:29] <Upu> 47.56405,15.91586
[19:29] <Upu> @1582m
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[19:29] <malgar> mmh quite far from here
[19:30] <Upu> Mclane is the only person I know who launches from Southern Germany
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> evening anthony
[19:31] <malgar> is there a page explaining the spec of the receiver station across the europe? I would like to understand the usual setup
[19:32] <Upu> Hi Lunar
[19:32] <Upu> well basically its some receiving device connected to a computer running dl-fldigi
[19:33] <malgar> we will launch in May 2014. Hoping in jet streams shifted to north. I'm quite worried about tracking since here the nearest are in Austria and Germany
[19:33] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander
[19:33] <Upu> best thing you can do is go round some radio clubs
[19:33] <Upu> present your project and recruit listeners
[19:33] <Upu> demo how to set up etc
[19:33] <malgar> good idea
[19:33] <Upu> Poland had zero listeners
[19:34] <Upu> SP9UOB did that and now they have as many if not more than we have
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[19:34] <Upu> in fact we could do with some listeners down that way
[19:34] <Upu> btw
[19:34] <Upu> keep listening out for B-11/B-12 on 434.500Mhz
[19:34] <malgar> firstly I have to understand well the system before teaching to radio clubs :P
[19:34] <Upu> yup :)
[19:35] <Upu> well make a payload than can transmit
[19:35] <Upu> and away you go
[19:35] <malgar> what's B-11/12?
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[19:36] <malgar> could you suggest us the steps to follow to set up all the system ballon+ground tracking? I think that we will start from the ground tracking
[19:36] <Upu> LeoBodnar's balloons which were last seen floating into Turkey I believe, both still in the air after 8 days
[19:36] <Upu> we ran out of listening stations
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, that's right, B-11 flew to turkey and B-12 to ukraine
[19:37] <Upu> http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/index.html
[19:37] <malgar> Upu: !! turkey from uk??
[19:37] <Upu> via France
[19:37] <Upu> Denmakr
[19:37] <Upu> Denmark
[19:37] <Upu> Sweden
[19:37] <Upu> check the track on that page
[19:38] <malgar> how did you receive the signal from turkey? which station caught it?
[19:38] <Upu> last station was YO3KSR
[19:38] <Upu> in Romania
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[19:38] <Upu> but it left the range of that sadly
[19:38] <Upu> could be anywhere and still up
[19:39] <Upu> its solar powered
[19:39] <Upu> with a battery that charges during the day so it can run at night
[19:39] <malgar> LOL! incredible! btw.. the only receiver in Italy is very close to here. Who is?
[19:39] <Upu> no idea
[19:40] <Laurenceb__> http://www.wildlifecomputers.com/Downloads/Documentation/SPOT5%20Manual.pdf
[19:42] <malgar> isn't there a list of the receiver stations?
[19:42] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/
[19:42] <Upu> click flights
[19:42] <Upu> then click B-11
[19:42] <malgar> ok tnx
[19:42] <Upu> callsign pie
[19:42] <Upu> even
[19:42] <Upu> next to B-11
[19:42] Nick change: clopez_ -> clopez
[19:43] <malgar> I have other questions but I have to understand well a lot of things
[19:43] <Upu> well
[19:43] <Upu> just hang round on here you'll pick it up
[19:43] <Upu> there is a launch in Spain tomorrow
[19:43] <Upu> are you a licensed amateur ?
[19:44] <malgar> I will follow the italian aviation laws but what will happen if the balloon lands in another country?
[19:44] <malgar> Upu: no
[19:45] <Upu> well
[19:45] <Upu> if you're transmitting on 434Mhz license exempt its europe wide
[19:45] <Upu> however
[19:45] <Upu> we do have a predictor
[19:46] <Upu> to help you not land anywhere dumb
[19:46] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predictor
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:46] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict even
[19:46] <malgar> I played a lot with the predictor!
[19:46] <malgar> :)
[19:46] <malgar> my fear are jet streams
[19:46] <Upu> that deals with that
[19:47] <Upu> as it knows the wind speeds at different levels
[19:47] <bertrik> malgar: are you considering a "floating" balloon, or a "normal" balloon launch?
[19:47] <Upu> yeah just put enough gas in so the balloon does what you expect
[19:48] <Upu> i.e bursts
[19:50] <malgar> bertrik: latex
[19:51] <malgar> Upu: yes! I understand well the trick with helium: more gas=more lift=sooner burst=lower altitude
[19:51] <malgar> right?
[19:51] <Upu> pretty much
[19:52] <Upu> but put too little gas in
[19:52] <Upu> and some balloons can float
[19:52] <Upu> which is easy to do with the cost of Helium
[19:52] <Upu> "it'll be enough"
[19:52] <Upu> generally isn't
[19:54] <Upu> afk
[19:55] <malgar> just for fun I tried the burst calculator for a small party latex balloon but it doesn't work. How much high could it go up?
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[19:56] <eroomde> malgar, you could try and plot burst altitude for a given ascent rate (e.g. 2m/s) and payload weight for the smallest balloons on the burst predictor
[19:56] <eroomde> then extrapolate it to your party balloon
[19:56] <eroomde> based on the weight of the balloon
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> malgar: Step 0 - which will lead to a fairly accurate result.
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> Blow up the balloon till it bursts - while monitoring the diameter
[19:58] <eroomde> oh yes, speed evil's technique is both more intelligent and more scientific than mine. try that
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> if it bursts at 2* the diameter you're using at the beginning - then it will ascend to where the air is 1/8th as thick
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> (this is _horrendously_ simplifying things - but that's a rough estimate
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[20:00] <malgar> SpeedEvil: nice
[20:01] <malgar> in your opinion how much? 3000? 5000?
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[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> Found this rather interesting pdf about how the Virgin Galactic spacecraft actually works. It's really interesting: http://www.virgingalactic.com/uploads/VG%20PUG%20WEB004%2020130612.pdf
[20:02] <eroomde> yeah&.
[20:02] <eroomde> their engine is scary as shit
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> how come?
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh7HOu5-o10 go to 30 seconds
[20:03] <eroomde> i'm not sure anyone there really understands hybrids
[20:04] <eroomde> nor handling N2O safely
[20:04] <eroomde> yes seen it. it's cool
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> they did blow up 5 people
[20:04] <eroomde> but that engine is not cool
[20:04] <eroomde> i suspect they might do more
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: If richard branston was one - it's worth it
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: how does the engine work? What's wrong with it?
[20:04] <eroomde> it has a solid fuel
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> a solid fuel?
[20:05] <eroomde> which might contain a little oxidiser too&.
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> I thought rocket engines normally did?
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> i can has a internets
[20:05] <eroomde> and a liquid oxidiser - n2o (nitrous oxide)
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> writed
[20:05] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: usually they're liquid fuel and liquid oxidiser
[20:05] <eroomde> in big rockets
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[20:05] <eroomde> hybrids are liquid oxidiser and solid fuel
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> The space shuttle has solid rocket boosters doesn't it?
[20:06] <eroomde> space shuttle solid boosters, or 'solids' more generally, are both oxidiser and fuel combined in a solid
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[20:06] <eroomde> so we have solids - solid F + solid O
[20:06] <eroomde> liquids: liquid F + liquid O
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> hybrids = bad?
[20:06] <eroomde> and 'hybrids' - somewhere in the middle - liquid O + solid F
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> hybrids are not bad.
[20:07] <eroomde> in theory they have advnatages
[20:07] <eroomde> the fuel is just like rubber
[20:07] <eroomde> quite safe
[20:07] <eroomde> easy to reload
[20:07] <eroomde> the oxidiser likewise
[20:07] <eroomde> but in practice i think their one is much more dangerous
[20:07] <eroomde> liquid oxygen is a good oxidiser but it's a cryogen
[20:07] <eroomde> and they're unfriendly to composite dual tanks (very low temps)
[20:07] <eroomde> so they have nitrous oxidee
[20:07] <eroomde> nitrous is a dangerous beast but tameable
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> Nitrous oxide - it's no laughing matter.
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[20:08] <eroomde> but in gaseous phase it is sensitive
[20:08] <eroomde> and can detonate all by itself
[20:08] <eroomde> this happened and killed several scaled composites engineers
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> nothing exciting comes without danger
[20:08] <eroomde> and the accident report from that smells super fishy and the numbers don;t really add up
[20:09] Action: SpeedEvil wishes Ozone were plausible to use.
[20:09] <eroomde> and they've had lots of problems scaling up the engine
[20:09] <eroomde> they don;t scale that well
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> in principle it would be awesome.
[20:09] <eroomde> and i think the one guy at their subcontractor who understood hybrids died
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> rather strange
[20:09] <eroomde> they seem to have spent years fanning around - they're many years behind schedule atm - mostly because of rocket engine problems
[20:09] <eroomde> they should have scrapped it and gone for a proper biprop (liquid liquid) years ago
[20:10] <eroomde> their performance is much higher, they're much better understood
[20:10] <eroomde> just for whatever reason (often not technical) thy went with hybrids for spaceship one
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> rockets amaze me. That thing accelarates in like 10 seconds to mach 4!
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> MDs who are not rocket engineers can be OK. As long as they understand their limits.
[20:11] <eroomde> not that fast
[20:11] <eroomde> the acceleration is actually pretty low
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> that's what it says
[20:11] <eroomde> to keep the people inside alive
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> in fact
[20:11] <eroomde> i think they're lying
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'm incorrect
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> ignore me
[20:11] <eroomde> i was
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> that would be 10G
[20:11] <eroomde> because that would make no physical sense
[20:11] <eroomde> rockets in missiles can pull like 30G
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Fun fact. Over the range 10-25G or so - prone - the delta-v motivated volunteers can take prone before tapping out is about 8-9km/s/s
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> I think they experience ~5G during acceleration
[20:12] <eroomde> but yes, rockets are completely amazing
[20:12] <eroomde> fascinating, wonderful, terrifying
[20:12] <eroomde> the power density is staggering
[20:12] <eroomde> the numbers invalid are staggering
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> How I'd love to be a rocket scientist...
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Staging is staggering.
[20:13] <eroomde> i find it amazing that you can have a pipe with a big hole in one end up but still have 500psi inside
[20:13] Action: ibanezmatt13 wakes up
[20:13] <eroomde> if you make it down near oxford i can give you a tour of our site
[20:13] <eroomde> an hopefully see a rocket firing test if the timing is right
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> you have a site for rockets?
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> :O
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> that would be awesome
[20:15] Action: SpeedEvil will wait till the launch to QSS.
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> I can get to Oxford train station very easily, I've done it twice before :)
[20:15] <eroomde> yes i work in rocket propulsion research
[20:15] <eroomde> we test rockets all the time
[20:15] <eroomde> statically mind
[20:15] <eroomde> i.e. strapped down
[20:15] <eroomde> not launching
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> I want your job :/
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> 'Unfortunately, due to a test stand failure, we have accidentally landed a man on the moon'. 'We're very sorry'.
[20:16] <eroomde> we should have some much bigger stuff on the rig in about 6 months. but there's still some very interesting work in the mean time
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde, I'd love to come down if that would be possible at some time, like seriously :)
[20:16] <eroomde> yes
[20:17] <eroomde> probably sometime in oct when the new engine is bedded in
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> wow, I have a week off in Oct
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> end of october
[20:17] <eroomde> here's a photo i took of one of the firings
[20:17] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8371635016/
[20:17] <Willdude123> Hi ibanezmatt13
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, speed to 100 km is some 1.4 km/s roundabout
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> to answer your question?
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Lunar_Lander :)
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Will
[20:18] <eroomde> that's a mix of carbon monoxide and oxygen. weird choice for propellants but the point is that you can make them from the martian atmosphere
[20:18] <eroomde> as this was researching sample-return technologies
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> awesome, they're so cool
[20:18] <Willdude123> Excited about the PCBs.
[20:18] <Willdude123> Need to order the caps and resistors and stuff
[20:19] <Willdude123> Can't order the Ublox yet as Upu is off work.
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'm excited too :)
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> for the PCBs as well yeah
[20:19] <Willdude123> But the board won't arrive for a few weeks anyway so it doesn't matter.
[20:19] <Willdude123> For mine?
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> ordered?
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> mine
[20:19] <Willdude123> Yup
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[20:19] <Willdude123> Heh
[20:19] <Willdude123> Another NORB board?
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: What're you making again - i forgot.
[20:19] <eroomde> cool, well let me know nearer the time when your week off is
[20:19] <eroomde> can see if i can organise something
[20:20] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil, breakout for Ublox and NTX2
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> I will, most definitely. Thank you very much!
[20:20] <eroomde> np
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: ah
[20:21] <Willdude123> I think I have a half term in october somewhen maybe
[20:22] <Willdude123> 28th October to 1st November
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[20:22] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, do you not have half terms?
[20:22] <Willdude123> Or is that your half term?
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: You've reminded me, do I even have time off in college? Hmm
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> let me check
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[20:24] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, 28th Oct - 1st Nov
[20:24] <eroomde> i want the great british bake-off marquee as my house
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> fair enough, I'd rather have NASA's mission control centre as my house :P
[20:25] <Willdude123> Nice. Have you never had a half term before? :)
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> in school I did yes
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[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> I recall going to Iceland during one of them. Amazing place btw
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/6896340820/lightbox/ ?
[20:27] <eroomde> oh, quickly rigging up a throttling test for our biprop engine for the hovering rocket
[20:28] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: re: mission control
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> man that is awesome
[20:28] <eroomde> here is a photo i took this year
[20:28] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/aHPp3tx.jpg
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> !!!!!!!!
[20:28] <eroomde> that's the JPL mission control
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> what's JPL?
[20:29] <eroomde> the jet propulsion laboratory
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> where you work?
[20:29] <eroomde> a nasa campus that does all the deep space stuff
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[20:29] <PH3V> hacvana
[20:29] <eroomde> pathfinder, spirit and opportunity, curiosity, cassini, whatever
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> you took that?
[20:29] <eroomde> all the rovers and missions to the other planets
[20:29] <eroomde> yep
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> my my, that is damn impressive
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> so do you make all these PCBs for the rockets generally?
[20:30] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8471425517/
[20:30] <eroomde> yes
[20:31] <Steffanx> eroomde, Laurenceb_ wants to know if that pcb you see is an arduino.
[20:31] <eroomde> that might be
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> aaw come on, that is just too cool
[20:31] <eroomde> i believe i did say in the caption to not judge me
[20:31] <eroomde> i rigged this up in about 5 seconds
[20:32] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: we're building a little hovering rocket
[20:32] <eroomde> that should be able to vector the engine to move around
[20:32] <eroomde> a bit like space x's grasshopper but much smaller
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds very cool
[20:32] <eroomde> this is the same engine as was being tested in that throttle rig
[20:32] <eroomde> but this time strapped to a test stand and wiggled around
[20:32] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkGlKYRISFM
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> very nice
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still consolidating my knowledge on the difference of two squares, and you're working on rocket propulsion! These next 2 years are honestly the most crucial years I will ever have, I MUST achieve something like this!
[20:37] <eroomde> when i took the mission control photo i saw telex come back live from voyager 1
[20:37] <eroomde> was quite amazing
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[20:37] <eroomde> telem*
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> Baud rate? :)
[20:38] <eroomde> still out there doing its thing decades later
[20:38] <eroomde> like 8 baud or something
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> not bad, makes me seem so stupid that I hope for my payloads to actually work at all, never mind decades after launch :P
[20:39] <eroomde> you've done more than the voyager engineers probably had when they were 16
[20:39] <eroomde> keep at it
[20:39] <eroomde> very fun stuff awaits if you want it
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> haha yeah, I just LOVE rockets, sad as that may seem. They're too cool
[20:39] <eroomde> they are amazing
[20:40] <eroomde> intellectually very very gratifying, but also amazing in a primal way
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[20:51] <Willdude123> I realized the other day, physics is 10x more awesome if you can just do it for the lulz and not be under pressure to complete homework and stuff
[20:51] <eroomde> same at university
[20:51] <eroomde> same at job with contract dealines
[20:51] <eroomde> same always
[20:51] <eroomde> pick your hobbies wisely
[20:53] <Willdude123> So I might as well enjoy the freedom to just mess about with it, while I can
[20:53] <eroomde> yep
[20:58] <Willdude123> But how do I mess about with it?
[20:58] <Willdude123> Hmm. I could see how many decimal places I can accurately measure g to
[20:58] <Willdude123> I could use an arduino to time a falling object or something
[20:59] <eroomde> yes
[20:59] <eroomde> that would be very useful
[21:00] <Willdude123> Well, not so much useful, because I could google it :)
[21:02] <craag> Can anyone here remember how to get to your streamer settings on batc.tv?
[21:03] <mfa298> the point should be your doing that sort of experiment because you want to do it.
[21:03] Nick change: Willdude123 -> GrammarNazi
[21:03] <GrammarNazi> mfa298, *you're
[21:03] Nick change: GrammarNazi -> Willdude123
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[21:04] Action: mfa298 ignores grammar nazis
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[21:05] Action: SpeedEvil imagines history channel getting confused, and commissioning a program on grammar Nazis.
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> lolling
[21:07] <Willdude123> mfa298 fine take it from me. *you're
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> your is the correct use
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> epic fail
[21:08] <Willdude123> No, it's not. The use is you're
[21:08] <Willdude123> *correct use
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> when faced with a grammar question, just ask yourself WWBBD.
[21:08] <mfa298> Willdude123: the point being I don't care. I can find much better things to do with my time than trying to use correct grammar and spelling all the time.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> (what would Brian Blessed do)
[21:09] <eroomde> shout
[21:09] <eroomde> roar
[21:09] <Willdude123> I'm not trying to correct it. It comes naturally.
[21:09] <Willdude123> Oh OK then. I can't.
[21:10] <Willdude123> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v30q6VkphbE
[21:10] <mfa298> Willdude123: you were saying yesterday how everyone thinks you're a dick. Always correcting people like that is a good way to get people to think that.
[21:10] <Willdude123> Oh OK. Sorry.
[21:11] <enkidu> two beer, or not two beer
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[21:12] <gonzo_> that question desreves just a blank stare
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[21:13] <eroomde> i have two beefed already
[21:13] <eroomde> er, beered
[21:13] <gonzo_> now where enough, obviously
[21:14] <gonzo_> if you can even see the kbd, then drunk more
[21:14] <enkidu> yeah. I am braindead after work. 13 hours of plumbing, hydroisolation, thermal isolations
[21:14] <eroomde> sats? fish tanks? alternative therapy?
[21:15] <mfa298> does not two beer == whiskey ?
[21:15] <enkidu> building house for friend
[21:15] <enkidu> vodka actually
[21:15] <enkidu> dont like parfums
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[21:16] <eroomde> IPA then
[21:17] Willdude123 (~William@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[21:18] <gonzo_> a good single malt.... mmmmmmm
[21:18] <gonzo_> malt ipa?
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> good night y'all
[21:18] <enkidu> night
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[21:20] <WillTablet> Meh. Maybe measuring g isn't cool enough
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: We did that yesterday
[21:20] <WillTablet> At school?
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[21:20] <WillTablet> *college
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> I was so pleased, I got 9.4
[21:20] <WillTablet> Heh
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> not that bad
[21:20] <WillTablet> How did you do it?
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> well
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> a bit stand thing
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> magnetic ball attached
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> which has GPE
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> And some sort of sensor pad at the bottom
[21:21] <adamgreig> measured the period of a known-length pendulum?
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[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> and a timer which starts when the ball released and stops when the pad is triggered.
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> dead easy
[21:22] <adamgreig> for a good time, prove that g is actually effectively constant throughout the experiment
[21:22] <adamgreig> oh, you just timed it falling, fair enough
[21:22] <adamgreig> but what if it was falling through a non constant acceleration
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> good point
[21:23] <eroomde> caesium clocks
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> what does amabile mean?
[21:24] <eroomde> spin up a cylinder of water to a known rpm and observe how high the meniscus rises
[21:25] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds interesting, not that I know what the penultimate word means
[21:25] <adamgreig> build a railgun and measure the projectile barrel energy
[21:25] <adamgreig> always good
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> I like the vacuum cannon
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> Build a minute hadron collider
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> take a pipe, evacuate, place foil tape over one end, with a tennis ball behind it
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> miniture
[21:27] <WillTablet> eroomde if I knew what a meniscus was, I'd do ot
[21:27] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniscus
[21:27] <WillTablet> It's a shame I don't know anyone else interested in physics to do stuff with
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[21:28] <adamgreig> start a physics club!
[21:28] <mfa298> physics is a huge topic so I'm sure you can find people interested in some aspects of physics
[21:29] <WillTablet> My physics teacher, that's about it
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> ##physics
[21:29] <WillTablet> Banned from it :-)
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[21:35] <WillTablet> Well, there's a guy in the year below me who sometimes comes onto this cham
[21:35] <WillTablet> Chan
[21:35] <WillTablet> (His name isn't chan, I was correcting myself)
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[21:41] <WillTablet> I need some good music, I'm a bit bored of the bee gees
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[21:44] <Laurenceb__> looks like Argos uses +-63degree BPSK
[21:44] <Laurenceb__> slightly annoying
[21:44] <mattbrejza> :/
[21:45] <Laurenceb__> but silabs can do 4-fsk
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[21:45] <Laurenceb__> should be feasible using that
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> i cant find documentation for the FEC
[21:46] <adamgreig> 63 degree BPSK?
[21:46] <adamgreig> what?
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> +-
[21:46] <adamgreig> as in, you shift by 63 degrees to mark each transition?
[21:46] <adamgreig> so you don't even end up back where you started?
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> nope
[21:46] <adamgreig> ew
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> theres a reference phase
[21:46] <Laurenceb__> used in the CW start sequence
[21:47] <Laurenceb__> then you use +-63degrees from that
[21:47] <Laurenceb__> also its manchester encoded at 800bps
[21:47] <Laurenceb__> data at 400
[21:48] <adamgreig> lol
[21:48] <Laurenceb__> still seems doable i think
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> its annoying that both the silabs documentation and the argos documentation is semi NDA
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> using 3 FSK tones in the 4FSK mode should still work
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> the jitter tolerance spec looks ok, so haxored PSK wont break it
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> it does need a very good TCXO
[21:50] <Laurenceb__> medium term drift seems quite a challenging spec
[21:50] <Laurenceb__> might require some sort of insulation of the TCXO
[21:50] <Laurenceb__> but balloon movement is going to break it somewhat
[21:51] <Laurenceb__> apparently CNES made an iterative solver using a weather model
[21:51] <Laurenceb__> for balloons
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[21:52] <Laurenceb__> think ill see what the St-Andrews team thinks of this concept
[21:53] <mattbrejza> what frequency tolerance?
[21:53] <mattbrejza> they can make it work on birds after all
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> 1kHz
[21:54] <mattbrejza> which is basically the same thing
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[21:54] <Laurenceb__> aiui the movement messes up the position
[21:54] <mattbrejza> well leo's only drifted by like 200Hz?
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> hmm good point
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> but 0.5Hz over 2 minutes :-S
[21:55] <mattbrejza> hmm
[21:55] <Laurenceb__> oh wait thats class A - 200m CEP
[21:56] <mattbrejza> was looking around for my serial stick then remembered this programmer has one built in...
[21:56] <Laurenceb__> but this is possible irrelevant as we could use GPS and upload it
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: in principle companies might be willing to be flexible on this for PR reasons
[21:57] <Laurenceb__> yeah thats kind of what i was hoping for
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> ive emailed the group at St-Andrews
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[22:04] <seventeen> 9.5g solar bird tracker http://www.woodcockwatch.com/how-do-tags-work.php
[22:04] <adamgreig> did we all see the gopro on the eagle
[22:05] <adamgreig> surprised it didn't seem to bug the eagle much
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> i dont get how they make this work
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> that antenni cant be very efficient
[22:06] <Laurenceb__> we could just stick that on a qualatex and let it go :P
[22:07] <adamgreig> hmm
[22:07] <adamgreig> argos uses a reverse gps thing too :P
[22:07] <adamgreig> satellites each record received frequency for the tag, which doesn't have a gps, then use the doppler shift to estimate ranges
[22:08] <Laurenceb__> yeah, hence the challenging medium term stability
[22:09] <adamgreig> really want a real bpsk tx
[22:09] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[22:09] <Laurenceb__> its like they designed the perfect system for pico-balloons
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[22:13] <Laurenceb__> omg no way
[22:13] <Laurenceb__> http://microwavetelemetry.com/bird/5gsolar/specifications.cfm
[22:14] <Laurenceb__> too easy :P
[22:14] <gonzo_mob> that's the way the previous gen of emergency beacons worked
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> low temperature spec looks a bit tricky
[22:16] <adamgreig> details
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> i guess the max7 was drawing about 120mW
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> at -33C
[22:17] <Laurenceb__> so 100mW isnt utterly infeasible with a lipo
[22:17] <Laurenceb__> "measure temperature and its own
[22:17] <Laurenceb__> battery voltage with each parameter"
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[22:17] <Laurenceb__> everything ready to go into the tracker :P
[22:17] <adamgreig> lol
[22:17] <adamgreig> 5g
[22:17] <mattbrejza> 100mW for how long? guess a few secs - super cap?
[22:17] <Laurenceb__> its like B-11/B-12 but 5gram and works anywhere
[22:17] <adamgreig> that's mental
[22:17] <mattbrejza> probably ott
[22:18] <Laurenceb__> its for 920ms
[22:18] <adamgreig> I guess when you don't need the ublox
[22:18] <adamgreig> you can really make things tiny
[22:18] <adamgreig> but it has a little plastic case and everything
[22:18] <adamgreig> and great big steel antenna
[22:18] <adamgreig> wonder if the antenna is included in 5g >_>
[22:18] <Laurenceb__> yeah supercap would actually work
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[22:19] <Laurenceb__> it says dimensions exclude antenna, but not weight
[22:19] <adamgreig> @elonmusk
[22:19] <adamgreig> "Engineers interested in working on autonomous driving, pls email autopilot@teslamotors.com. Team will report directly to me."
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> its thin rod
[22:19] <adamgreig> hmmm
[22:19] <Laurenceb__> gunna get trolled
[22:20] <Laurenceb__> "yo elon, hyperloop is a scam"
[22:21] <Laurenceb__> "Modulation Tri Phase PSK: ± 1.1 Rad ± 0.1 Rad" they are calling it tri phase, interesting
[22:21] <will___> Hi there. Im launching my first balloon on Saturday and looking for a bit of advice.Ive got a payload with 2 separate sections insulated. One with a hole in the side of the payload so that the onboard computer can track the temperature. The other is insulated and i have put a hand warmer in there to insulate the Spot satellite tracker and the RTTY radio. I am a bit worried that there will be condensation inside from the tempera
[22:21] <Laurenceb__> looks like its lipo powered
[22:21] <will___> Has anyone had similar problems?
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> condensation?
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> no real problems with that
[22:24] <will___> Yes, the moisture - was a bit worried that it could short circuit?
[22:26] <will___> Lunar, do you nind it necessary to insulate a tracker from the cold?
[22:26] <will___> Lunar, do you find it necessary to insulate a tracker from the cold?
[22:27] <mfa298> depending on the radio you're using for rtty you might find it drifts a bit with temperature
[22:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Once your high enougth and the air pressure is low, then you have the opposite problem in some cases as there is no convection to cool chips etc.
[22:27] <Laurenceb__> http://www.microwavetelemetry.com/bird/prices.cfm
[22:28] <Laurenceb__> ouch
[22:28] <mfa298> depending on what you're using as the flight computer it's possibly you could also have issues with it overheating
[22:28] <will___> Thanks mfa. The frequency would drift or the GPS location readings. Sorry, im a noob!
[22:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> I wondered when you were reading that page!
[22:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> What is the transmitter NTX2 ?
[22:29] <mfa298> the rtty transmitter might drift (depending on which radio module you're using)
[22:29] <will___> OK. so perhas no need to put a hand warmer in there
[22:29] <will___> Great. Thanks all.
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[22:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you in the UK will___ ? What frequency will you be using.
[22:31] <mfa298> if you want more definitive answers you might want to say a bit more about your setup (RTTY Radio could be made up of a variety of components)
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> will___, sorry was afk
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> well our payload just was insulated by the styrofoam box, the Voltage regulator and camera produced heat
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> never got colder than -20°C
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> so there were no problems
[22:33] <mfa298> in terms of moisture I think the times people have had issues are when using the anti fog strips with a camera (they store water in normal conditions but that water than boils off in low pressures at altitude)
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:43] <will___> Sorry Geoff, are you astill there? Yes im in teh UK
[22:43] <will___> was just having a late dinner
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[22:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK, just wondered what frequeinces you will be using fot e Tx
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[22:44] <will___> I got it built by Mark Ireland at stratodean. Im not sure the exact compnents
[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah will almost certainly be NTX2 then, and yes you will probably drift with temperature change.
[22:46] <mfa298> it's worth finding out what frequency it's on and send an announcment to the ukhas mailing list, that way you'll get listeners
[22:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also you may avoid clashing with others usig the same frequency!
[22:47] <will___> OK, ta. it is 434.075 i think
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, do you happen to be still here?
[22:48] <will___> it would be great to get some help from others as firs time using SDR and dlfldifgi
[22:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you tried out the tracking in advance ? If your launching Saturday its getting close!
[22:49] <mfa298> you may also need to make sure that there are payload and flight docs created for it (although mark might have done that for you)
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> stupid question
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> can you desolder the ublox modules from the breakouts?
[22:50] <will___> Yes, we tried the tracker and it worked and we could upload to spacenear but drove it 200metres away and the signal dropped to pretty much nothing. But we live in London and there were plenty of buildings around
[22:50] <will___> Was a bit of a shock though :-)
[22:50] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander: from what others have said I think it's tricky to remove them (although possible)
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> I just read a sad thing
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[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> the ublox reseller in germany sells the MAX-7Q for 50 euro/piece
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> but only in a 500 piece reel
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> which totals to some 6000 euro for some reason
[22:51] <adamgreig> guess you'd better start buying balloons then!
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Whats the payload callsign will___ ?
[22:51] <mfa298> will___: buildings will affect the signal quite a lot.
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> so much for "We need to order from companies in germany if possible"
[22:51] <craag> Lunar_Lander: You can order just the MAX-7 ic/module from Hab Supplies.
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[22:52] <mfa298> hopefully you're heading outside of London to launch
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> I was just investigating a supplier for fulfilling that rule for an uni order
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> (the one I cited)
[22:52] <craag> Ah right
[22:52] <will___> It will be MOD1 Geoff/MFA
[22:52] <craag> ANthony needs to open a german branch!
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> or I need to convince my prof
[22:53] <mfa298> I think I've seen that appear on the map a couple of times
[22:53] <will___> We are launchign at 11am on Saturdat from Warwickshire - tried to find somewhere as central as possible to avoid landing in teh drink
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> or still have to pay GPS and NTX2 myself :(
[22:53] <will___> Yep, we have done some testing in London
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> but that doesn't really match the sense of an uni project
[22:53] <craag> will___: Where's the predicted landing?
[22:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> No payload doc's for Saturday on habitat or that callsign
[22:54] <will___> Should we try and stay as close as possible to it during the chase - it there a limit to the receiver;s range? Im using a funcube dongle pro+
[22:55] <craag> will___: Well you get 1000 hab points if you can catch it before it lands ;)
[22:55] <adamgreig> you should make a flight doc and announce it on the list so that loads of other people track it for you :P
[22:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you don't put it on spacenear.us then you better stay very close to it!
[22:55] <adamgreig> what antenna are you using on the fcd+?
[22:55] <will___> Thanks Geoff. I have just sent a NOTAM but will check out habitat tomorrow and make the announcement
[22:55] <mfa298> you may find the signal is weaker when you're underneath the payload. But you should have plenty of others tracking it as well
[22:55] <adamgreig> will___: just sent the NOTAM?
[22:55] <will___> a 70cm magmount
[22:55] <adamgreig> or received the notam?
[22:56] <will___> I sent it and got a resonse back from CAA so its approved
[22:56] <adamgreig> oh good, thought you meant you had only just sent the request
[22:56] <adamgreig> so long as the CAA have written back you're good :)
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[22:56] <craag> will___: No real limit on range with the chase car, fcd++ is a great RX. But you want to be close when it lands so you can recover quickly and easily!
[22:56] <will___> No, was short notice but they were very good. I had a call from a oilot this mornign askign if he should look out for it :-)
[22:57] <will___> No, was short notice but they were very good. I had a call from a pilot this mornign askign if he should look out for it :-)
[22:57] <will___> Has anyone got the 1000 points?
[22:57] <mfa298> i think the standard recommendation is head for the predicted burst point and track from there as it starts to descend.
[22:57] <adamgreig> I don't believe anyone has caught a payload yet
[22:57] <adamgreig> I was soooo close
[22:57] <craag> not afaik, people have got v close!
[22:57] <adamgreig> but an A road got in the way
[22:57] <adamgreig> I was running after it, below it
[22:58] <adamgreig> and suddenly an A road in front of me
[22:58] <adamgreig> :(
[22:58] <will___> Yes, bit worried that someone will make off with it!
[22:58] <adamgreig> that's unlikely
[22:58] <mfa298> sharp (surprisingly) were close but just missed it I think
[22:58] <will___> We'll shoot for it then!
[22:58] <will___> Ive got a ladder dinghy and a bow and arrow. Any other recommendations for recovery tools?
[22:59] <craag> will___: Where is the current predicted landing?
[22:59] <adamgreig> mfa298: uhm
[22:59] <mfa298> craag: I wonder if we can claim points for seeing someone elses payload come down.
[22:59] <adamgreig> what, when they _almost_ caught it
[22:59] <adamgreig> but missed? :P
[22:59] <craag> a 10m telescopic fibreglass fishing pole is good.
[22:59] <craag> To pull it down from trees
[22:59] <adamgreig> ...from a static drop test. with a bedsheet.
[22:59] <will___> Thanks
[22:59] <craag> YOu can get them on ebay cheap.
[23:00] <adamgreig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qig-LVW1yb4
[23:00] <mfa298> adamgreig: no this was for one of the flights they actually managed to do.
[23:00] <adamgreig> hahaha
[23:00] <adamgreig> I still watch that occasionally
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[23:00] <mfa298> compared to the many failed attempts.
[23:00] <adamgreig> hehe
[23:00] <will___> Its on Saturday so might be too late to get a pole ut ill buy some bamboo
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[23:02] <will___> ha. just watched the drop
[23:02] Action: craag hides with the shame of being at that uni..
[23:02] <mfa298> I think the time they almost caught it was when it actually managed to be re-useable (they pulled it out a tree in the morning and flew it in the afternoon).
[23:03] <craag> But that's what happens when you let mechanical engineers design electronics.
[23:03] <mfa298> I may have been partly responsible for the one bit of possibly awesome in that video (having the countdown music being played and almost timed to match the cutdown)
[23:04] <will___> Thanks for the tips all. Going to bed. its MOD1 on saturday. if anyone is watching spacenear at 12-2, that's the planed touchdown time. I might be on here in a panic if i cant locate it :-)
[23:05] <mfa298> will___: put something on the mailinst list in advance so you get people listening for it.
[23:05] <will___> Will do, mfa
[23:05] <mattbrejza> yay gps has its first ever lock
[23:05] <craag> If it comes anywhere near soton I might nip out to see it :)
[23:05] <mfa298> and it's well worth trying to have someone watching irc when chasing
[23:06] <will___> Thanks. I did a prediction a few days ago and it was hampshire
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[23:06] <Sven1987h> hi
[23:06] <craag> will___: Have you got an hourly set up?
[23:06] <will___> Whats that, Craag?
[23:06] <tweetBot> @daveake: Photos of Monday's launch and Tuesday's recovery http://t.co/88l4SiK3jZ #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
[23:07] <craag> will___: If you talk to the habhub guys, they can set you up something like this: http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/highfield/
[23:08] <craag> It runs continuous predictions for a launch site, updated every 6 hours with latest wind predictions
[23:08] <will___> Awesome. Will run one tomorrow
[23:09] <craag> will___: Read this for a howto: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ukhas/predictor/ukhas/Y5qvjvZ5kMA/VZkl9B4-BmkJ
[23:09] <mfa298> you might want to keep an eye on predictions, sticking some rough figures for sat put landing in London (which isn't a good idea)
[23:09] <craag> mfa298: Yeah that's what I got too :/
[23:10] <will___> ooh
[23:11] <will___> Is that for a launch fron Near Rugby. Out launch postcode is CV47 8LT
[23:11] <will___> Is that for a launch fron Near Rugby. Our launch postcode is CV47 8LT
[23:11] <mfa298> winds might be a bit changeable. Changing the date to Sunday lands mearer milton keynes
[23:12] <mfa298> I randomly clicked somewhere near Royal Lemmington Spa
[23:12] <craag> Yeah looks like st albans for you at the moment
[23:12] <craag> But set up an hourly so you can keep an eye on it :)
[23:13] <will___> Yep, Leamington spa is near. The NOTAM is just for Saturday though..
[23:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://notaminfo.com/explain?id=138868/0
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[23:14] <craag> Hourly will also allow you to see if an earlier/later launch might do better.
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> ah people
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> it is possible to run two NTX2 on the same balloon, is that right?
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> one .075 and one .650
[23:15] <craag> Lunar_Lander: sure :)
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> ok, thanks
[23:16] <mfa298> you can even adjust two starting on the same frequency to shift them a bit in opposite directions although that's slightly more advanced
[23:16] <will___> Yes that us Geoff. Will run the hourslies. Fingers crossed
[23:16] <craag> Good luck will___ ! Don't hesitate to ask on here if you're unsure about anything.
[23:17] <will___> Thanks Craag! will do
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> I should be around to track, once it has some height!
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 19 2013