highaltitude.log.20130913

[00:17] <enkidu> since when vaisala radiosondes are sending absolute positions instead of relative?
[00:17] <adamgreig> they send positions? I thought they just send pseudoranges
[00:19] <enkidu> it is funny, because I was listening to legionovo radiosonde, but it got too far from me, so I found another one. sondemonitor was displaying data based on legionowo launching poin, so i skipped to leba and restarted SM. nothing changed
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[00:20] <enkidu> direction I pointed yagi too also fits
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[02:45] <LU8DQ> Zurdo's!
[02:52] <Zurdo> Exu's.
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[03:12] <heathkid> anyone still around?
[03:20] <Zurdo> yep
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[05:01] <Maxell> morning
[05:17] <x-f> morning, Friday and 13
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[06:13] <jcoxon> morning wb8elk
[06:14] <wb8elk> Hi James....Cluster Balloon landed in Newfoundland. He had trouble establishing a steady float so had to end the mission
[06:15] <wb8elk> My 1 watt RTTY transmitter seemed to work well. Did you hear it?
[06:15] <jcoxon> oh, thanks for the update
[06:15] <jcoxon> wb8elk, i was at work for most of the flight so didn't listen
[06:15] <jcoxon> but people on here did hear it
[06:16] <wb8elk> Jonathan basically tossed my payload over the side of the gondola. Vertical half-wave wire dipole with the payload box in the middle.
[06:16] <jcoxon> wb8elk, http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/
[06:16] <wb8elk> I saw that Ireland, England and Poland had reception
[06:16] <jcoxon> yeah
[06:17] <jcoxon> if you follow that link and go to payload telemetry stats
[06:17] <jcoxon> you can view who submitted data
[06:17] <wb8elk> Great...I'll take a look at that.
[06:18] <jcoxon> http://habitat.habhub.org/ is a good resource - you can also download all the data etc
[06:18] <wb8elk> I was going to fly DominoEX16 which would've been easier to copy than RTTY but after hours of frustration I found out that the DAC on a PSoC microcontroller puts out a half value every 6th value....not good at all so I'll have to redesign with an external DAC.
[06:18] <wb8elk> for DominoEX
[06:19] <wb8elk> I could hear it here from 1500 to 2000 miles away most of the time but hard to get a perfect copy. Had a lot of good partials though.
[06:20] <wb8elk> Next time I'll have some shorter messages in between the longer ones.
[06:21] <wb8elk> I was hoping that he'd give it a full test all the way across the pond. Would've taken him 60 to 70 hours to make the trip.
[06:22] <wb8elk> I'm sure it was an exciting ride since he had thunderstorms chasing him (and about to catch him) from the west and a tropical storm and a hurricane to the south heading his way. He was trying to keep out in front of all of that.
[06:25] <wb8elk> That's great to see the Callsign Pie
[06:25] <wb8elk> How do I manually post something to Spacenear?...I had a few decodes that I was able to make good by fixing one number but no way to get it to Spacenear automatically
[06:27] <jcoxon> wb8elk, thats a bit harder
[06:27] <jcoxon> we have an old system for doing that
[06:27] <jcoxon> not really for public release
[06:28] <wb8elk> Ah....perhaps you could email me the particulars and I'll keep it under my hat.
[06:28] <jcoxon> will do
[06:29] <wb8elk> Thanks...will come in handy
[06:29] <wb8elk> Working on a mylar payload to launch soon.
[06:29] <wb8elk> Leo set the bar quite high with just 8 gms
[06:29] <wb8elk> I'm going to be closer to 12 to 15 grams
[06:31] <wb8elk> I just noticed that Jonathan Trappe landed near "Blow Md Down" park in Newfoundland. Seems appropriate.
[06:31] <wb8elk> Blow Me Down
[06:31] <jcoxon> yeah, i've pretty much given up on picos now ha
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[06:32] <wb8elk> I'm thinking of a multi 36" system with ballast....anyone done ballast with the pico's before?
[06:32] <jcoxon> wb8elk, not to my knowledge
[06:32] <jcoxon> but i don't think multi balloon systems are good
[06:32] <jcoxon> lots of our early fligths were multi and was very difficult to get float
[06:32] <wb8elk> working on a micro-ballast system...ought to be interesting to keep a multi-balloon system aloft for days
[06:32] <tweetBot> @NSEballoon: "@hackaday: New post: Digital camera becomes video transmitter http://t.co/5g7YoMDbF7" #ukhas
[06:32] <jcoxon> we only started getting good floats with single balloons
[06:32] <jcoxon> the problem is keeping them ballast
[06:32] <wb8elk> Yes I noticed that it is much easier to float just one balloon.
[06:33] <chrisstubbsW> Morning :)
[06:33] <jcoxon> the problem is keeping them balanced
[06:33] <jcoxon> not ballast
[06:33] <fsphil> you've been busy chrisstubbsW :)
[06:33] <wb8elk> well...just barely morning here...1:30 AM here
[06:33] <chrisstubbsW> Hah :)
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[06:34] <jcoxon> wb8elk, in theory on a single balloon you don't need ballast
[06:34] <jcoxon> as its pretty much self regulating
[06:34] <jcoxon> leo's success was that he flew high enough that it all warmed up during the day to charge his lipo
[06:35] <jcoxon> which kept everything going
[06:35] <jcoxon> and that the tracking system is good in Europe so we could keep track
[06:35] <wb8elk> I may do strictly solar-powered
[06:35] <WillTablet> chrisstubbsW congrats on the hackaday mentiin
[06:35] <wb8elk> daytime only...off at night and wait for signal at sunrise....does away with a battery and charging system
[06:36] <wb8elk> much more sparse here for 434 MHz ground stations....but I do manage to scare up a few during flights
[06:36] <jcoxon> wb8elk, there is an interesting psychology to tracking long duration balloons
[06:36] <chrisstubbsW> Not sure if cloudflare worked, my blog was down for a bit this morning :/
[06:36] <wb8elk> no sleep no gain?
[06:36] <jcoxon> in a sense that if you have large gaps people lose interest
[06:37] <wb8elk> that makes sense.....a payload that turns off at night would appear like a new flight every day
[06:38] <jcoxon> its more that its hard to find the next day
[06:38] <wb8elk> I liked Leo's beep tone every 3 seconds
[06:38] <jcoxon> difficult to know if its still in the air, has moved out of range etc
[06:38] <wb8elk> and the double-beep alerting the upcoming telemetry
[06:38] <wb8elk> yes indeed....well I did find a 4 gram LiPo that is 150 mAh
[06:39] <jcoxon> yeah
[06:39] <wb8elk> but there goes my weight limit
[06:39] <jcoxon> indeed
[06:39] <jcoxon> there is a reason b-11 was the eleventh flight before proper success
[06:39] <wb8elk> do you know what the heaviest payload that would allow a single mylar balloon to achieve float?
[06:40] <jcoxon> yeah about 35g
[06:40] <jcoxon> you'll fly quite low
[06:40] <jcoxon> with a very slow ascent rate
[06:40] <jcoxon> say 0.8m/s
[06:41] <wb8elk> I made it to 4500 m with two fully inflated 36" mylars....one burst in half and curiously enough didn't burst around the seam.
[06:41] <wb8elk> bet that would've been a spectacular explosion if I could put a video cam on it.
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[06:41] <jcoxon> wb8elk, yes we've seen that tehy don't burst at teh seam
[06:41] <jcoxon> often rip
[06:41] <jcoxon> across the middle
[06:42] <wb8elk> the other one had half its helium inside but I couldn't find a leak in it...perhaps it was able to leak through the filling hose seal.
[06:42] <wb8elk> the top half of it blasted away
[06:42] <wb8elk> I can easily do 35 gram payload....might be worth a fun try this weekend.
[06:43] <jcoxon> wb8elk, so 35g are less stable
[06:43] <jcoxon> so you need good weather, very low ascent rate
[06:43] <wb8elk> I'd probably come in around 20 grams
[06:43] <x-f> wb8elk, SP3OSJ (on the map) is 24g, floating at ~5 km
[06:43] <jcoxon> yeah the lighter the better
[06:44] <x-f> no new data since early morning though
[06:44] <wb8elk> do you know how much free lift SP3OSJ used?
[06:44] <wb8elk> do you recommend heat sealing the filling nozzle?
[06:44] <x-f> i don't, but he shows up here sometimes, ascent rate was around 1 m/s
[06:44] <jcoxon> wb8elk, i've only folded it over and taped it
[06:45] <jcoxon> probably better to heat seal it if it would work
[06:45] <wb8elk> well...it will be fun to try. I have 6 Qualatex 36" balloons to play with here
[06:45] <jcoxon> great
[06:47] <wb8elk> Well...I'm heading off to bed...been a long day since had to get up in the wee hours to listen for my HF payload during the Trappe launch.
[06:47] <wb8elk> does anyone make a larger diameter mylar balloon by the way?
[06:48] <jcoxon> wb8elk, thats the biggest we could find
[06:48] <jcoxon> people have attempted to make their own
[06:48] <wb8elk> Enjoyed watching the Conference by the way....had to get up at 4 am to join in the fun. I enjoyed your presentation.
[06:48] <jcoxon> with some success
[06:48] <jcoxon> great
[06:48] <jcoxon> it was a lot of fun
[06:49] <jcoxon> good venue this year and i'm glad the streaming was better then last year
[06:49] <wb8elk> The BATC streaming video was top notch and never dropped out for me. The audio was muffled but think that was due to a Mic battery problem.
[06:49] <jcoxon> yeah radio mics never really work
[06:49] <wb8elk> BATC was much better than last year.
[06:50] <wb8elk> I use the BATC streaming video to film my launches a lot and it usually works quite well.
[06:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[06:50] <wb8elk> looked like you had a great turnout and sure wish I could have attended. Maybe next year.
[06:50] <jcoxon> we got the idea to use it from your launches i think
[06:51] <jcoxon> yeah, one day i'll come to GPSL
[06:51] <wb8elk> You'd enjoy it...particularly the multi-balloon launch and chase
[06:51] <wb8elk> we had 9 or 10 this year I believe flying at once.
[06:52] <wb8elk> One fellow from the UK came to GPSL to learn about HAB...he didn't realize that there was a hotbed of activity in his backyard so I gave him links to you all.
[06:52] <wb8elk> I hope he was able to contact you all.
[06:53] <jcoxon> i'm sure he has joined in then
[06:53] <wb8elk> Well...time for bed this time...bye for now.
[06:53] <jcoxon> night wb8elk
[06:54] <wb8elk> night all and thanks to everyone for listening for the HF telemetry on Thursday.
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[07:17] <DL1SGP> good morning folks!
[07:19] <fsphil> morning
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[07:20] Action: DL1SGP rants about no news on Trappe's website
[07:20] <DL1SGP> :D
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[07:22] <m0tfo> Morning all.
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[07:23] <fsphil> morn
[07:25] <eroomde> http://imgflip.com/i/3l1br
[07:26] <DL1SGP> http://www.pressherald.com/news/North-Carolinian-embarks-from-northern-Maine-on-balloon-powered-trans-Atlantic-voyage.html
[07:26] <DL1SGP> lol eroomde
[07:27] <Kim> Morn. Is it still flying? 14mhz beacon showed last at 2200 last night and below 2k feet?
[07:27] <DL1SGP> Kim: he has landed for the night, it is unclear as of now if he will resume flight
[07:27] <x-f> WB8ELK an hour ago said: "Cluster Balloon landed in Newfoundland. He had trouble establishing a steady float so had to end the mission"
[07:28] <DL1SGP> x-f: sounds likely as much as we saw him bouncing up and down
[07:28] <Kim> Thank you. I can't see history on this ipad
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[07:30] <Maxell> Any UK's tuning in for JNOSS1 balloon today in the Hague?
[07:31] <m0tfo> any links for details Maxell
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[07:32] <fsphil> very good eroomde. now get some coffee :)
[07:32] <eroomde> how did you know?
[07:32] <SP3OSJ> goodmorning everyone
[07:33] <Maxell> m0tfo: not sure if he posted on the mailinglist...
[07:33] <DL1SGP> good morning SP3OSJ
[07:33] <DL1SGP> your balloon seems to be refusing to get closer to me :D
[07:34] <Maxell> m0tfo: between 7:00:00 am and 12:00:00 pm GMT, 434.650 Mhz, check flight list for "JNOSS1" and use autoconfigure :P
[07:34] <SP3OSJ> DL1SGP: Wind is not good
[07:34] <m0tfo> tnx Maxell
[07:35] <DL1SGP> yeap :) no worries SP3OSJ it was more a joke than serious trouble, it will find its way
[07:36] <SP3OSJ> A solar tracker should be available to 437,700
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[07:38] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[07:39] <SP3OSJ> I if not answered, I'm away
[07:40] <x-f> SP3OSJ, how much free lift did you use?
[07:40] <SP3OSJ> Who draw NOAA for SP3OSJ altitude 5000m please!
[07:41] <LeoBodnar> mornings!
[07:42] <LeoBodnar> What is happening with OSJ?
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[07:43] <x-f> LeoBodnar, NG0X had WB8ELK's 1 watt RTTY transmitter and a "vertical half-wave wire dipole with the payload box in the middle" "tossed over the side of the gondola"
[07:43] <SP3OSJ> x-f Leo talked 2g. I did-2g
[07:43] <x-f> thanks
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> 2g should be OK
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> thanks x-f
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> I think it worked very well for 1W!
[07:45] <SP3OSJ> Hi Leo, Leo - Baumgartner :)
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> I hope I am slightly saner.
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> When was the last transmission SP3OSJ ?
[07:46] <SP3OSJ> My tracker flies to England
[07:47] <x-f> not really
[07:47] <x-f> SP3OSJ, http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18641_trj001.gif
[07:47] <SP3OSJ> $$$$SP3OSJ,2304,024501,53.833431,14.950080,4849,-16,7,1.32,1.01,0.00*093A
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18677_trj001.gif SP3OSJ
[07:49] <SP3OSJ> x-f thanks! flight no to England :)
[07:49] <LeoBodnar> Last position projection: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18751_trj001.gif
[07:49] <LeoBodnar> Oh, x-f done it already :)
[07:50] <SP3OSJ> Leo when the B13?
[07:50] <LeoBodnar> No idea, today would have been a good launch day :D
[07:52] <LeoBodnar> It is going to rise to about 6000m during the day
[07:52] <nats`> For B-13 I'll have my listening station with a FT790R and a moxon :)
[07:52] <LeoBodnar> Cool nats` :)
[07:53] <LeoBodnar> Is SP3OSJ expected to transmit when the Sun is up?
[07:53] <nats`> B11 and B12 are considered dead ?
[07:53] <LeoBodnar> No, out of range for now nats`
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> B-11 should in theory fly over Cyprus/Israel by late night tomorrow. http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA.gif
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[07:55] <Maxell> detected carrier on 434.650 MHz. JNOSS1 is warming up
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[07:55] <LeoBodnar> x-f: How are you forcing a single altitude trajectory?
[07:56] <x-f> i just enter one altitude, leave the other two empty
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[07:56] <LeoBodnar> Thanks, I'll try again. It used to give me ground tracks before :)
[07:58] <nats`> that would be awesome to hear B11 in one year after everyone forget it :D
[08:03] <LeoBodnar> I am more interested to see how end-of-life happens on these balloons. Whether it is leak, gradual helium loss through diffusion or rupture.
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[08:07] <nats`> to avoid ruptur isn't it a possibility to had some vegetable bag ?
[08:07] <nats`> with many polyester cross
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[08:08] <SP3OSJ> Berlin answered winSDR http://radio-swl.no-ip.org:8901/
[08:08] <SP3OSJ> webSDR
[08:09] <SP3OSJ> 437701.79
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[08:12] <jcoxon> SP3OSJ, are you getting telemetry?
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[08:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[08:17] <SP3OSJ> I hear a weak signal can not decode
[08:18] <SP3OSJ> I am waiting
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[08:22] <DL1SGP> LeoBodnar: if they make it into my yard I will tell you what balloon looked like :)
[08:23] <DL1SGP> SP3OSJ: did you hear that faint signal directly or through Berlin?
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[08:25] <LeoBodnar> Deal DL1SGP
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[08:25] <DL1SGP> heh
[08:26] <DL1SGP> I do not have a geiger counter so I cannot tell you if the foil took up much radiation :)
[08:27] <SP3OSJ> DL1SGP: or through Berlin
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[08:29] <DL1SGP> I do not think your balloon drifted anywhere close to me SP3OSJ still I will set some of my equipment to a listening-watch
[08:30] <SP3OSJ> DL1SGP Where do you live?
[08:31] <DL1SGP> Near Hannover, JO52co
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[08:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Morning Guys
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> G0TDJ_Steve: morning
[08:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey SpeedEvil
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[08:33] <DL1SGP> Good morning Steve
[08:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi DL1SGP
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[08:34] <nerdsville> Morning G0TDJ_Steve
[08:34] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[08:34] <Steve_at_Work> can telemetry be sent at 600 baud
[08:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Andy :D
[08:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> I see Mr. Trappe hasn't got very far. Is it a coincidence he was last plotted over land (just)
[08:36] <nerdsville> Been listening out on HF for him but not a peep
[08:36] <DL1SGP> He aborted his flight
[08:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have a feeling that we couldn't hear him at that alt Andy.
[08:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah! I thought that may be so DL1SGP - Is he OK?
[08:37] <fsphil> Steve_at_Work: you can send telemetry at any speed
[08:37] <fsphil> the question is can you receive it :)
[08:37] <DL1SGP> Jonathan R. Trappe shared A Link via DeLorme inReach Enterprise. 8 hours ago Landed safe, at an alternate location. Remote. I put the exposure canopy up on the boat. Will stay here for the night.
[08:38] <fsphil> good to know he's safe at least
[08:38] <DL1SGP> indeed, fsphil
[08:38] <nerdsville> Not as easy as the (CGI) films make out then? That is a shame
[08:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, a valiant attempt.
[08:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hopefully he'll try again
[08:39] <nerdsville> I spotted Ilmatar on the tracker the other night? Coming on then Steve? ;-)
[08:39] <DL1SGP> I guess first he will have to catch some sleep, then he needs to get picked up
[08:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep Andy. Although it will be Vaya going up first, I haven't get that on the tracker yet. Got more testing to do.
[08:41] <nerdsville> Cool name btw, did have to google it mind
[08:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ilmatar is a personal one. Something from my past and just happened to be very apt (Finish Virgin God of the Air)
[08:42] <nerdsville> should be your first flight then? pop her cherry as it were
[08:43] <Steve_at_Work> fsphil: OK, thanks, my problem is i want to send telemetry and ssdv but there are not many trackers UP NORF (i dont think) and how with one receiver i will do both, which is why i thought of RTTY at 600, i'm probably way off the mark though.
[08:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL... I'm still deciding that. Weather or not it's going to be a foil first or larger latex
[08:43] <Steve_at_Work> how do you find when someone was last on here
[08:44] <nerdsville> anyway should be working, will carry on lurking
[08:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Andy, speak to you later
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[08:45] <fsphil> Steve_at_Work: there's nothing stopping you sending it at 600. it does work, but if the number of receivers is going to be an issue then it might be wise to slow down
[08:45] <fsphil> or have a second tracker running at 50 baud
[08:48] <Chetic> how does the number of receivers affect your maximum baud rate?
[08:48] <Chetic> I have a lot of data I want to be sending
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[08:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> seen Steve_at_Work
[08:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK That didn't work...
[08:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Damn!
[08:52] <DL1SGP> :)
[08:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah! There you go
[08:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> I know DL1SGP
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[08:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> I was trying to find out the command for seeing when someone was last seen
[08:53] <DL1SGP> ah
[08:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Steve_at_Work: The command is (Exclamation mark)seen nick
[08:56] <kajurria> JNOSS1 will be launched soon in The Hague, Netherlands
[08:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> kajurria: Whats the expected max alt?
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[08:57] <kajurria> no idea unfortunately, I'm not one of the crew
[08:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK No worries. Just wondered if there was a chance I could receive it.
[08:59] <fsphil> Chetic: if there are more receivers the odds of a packet being received and decoded are better
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[08:59] <fsphil> one person receiving 600 baud might not receive all packets of an image for example
[09:00] <fsphil> but if 10 people are doing it, the odds are better
[09:01] <kajurria> do I need to keep refreshing the tracker? or does it refresh itself
[09:01] <fsphil> it's automatic
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[09:01] <fsphil> if it's spacenear.us you where asking about
[09:01] <kajurria> yes
[09:02] <kajurria> I've just heard the expected alt is 26km
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> The BBC report that Trappe is just on a stop-over landing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24076168
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thank you kajurria
[09:03] <kajurria> heh that's amazing
[09:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> He's on Tracker kajurria
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[09:04] <kajurria> yes, I saw that
[09:04] <kajurria> but about the tracker, does it auto-refresh?
[09:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> It does when new telemetry is received
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[09:05] <kajurria> thanks
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[09:07] <kajurria> it's about to rain in The Hague so I've heard they're in a bit of stress
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[09:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hello again
[09:07] <kajurria> isn't that the whole point of a weather balloon? :)
[09:07] <DL1SGP> http://www.jeroennijhof.nl/wiki/index.php/JNOSS1
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[09:08] <kajurria> who's DL1SGP? :)
[09:08] <Lunar_LanderU> the regulator I selected in EAGLE does not reflect that the regulator I selected by the help of LeoBodnar has a top pin which is wired to VCC, now I realized that this would give a terrible short with the groundplane
[09:08] <Lunar_LanderU> what to do?
[09:08] <Lunar_LanderU> hi chrisstubbsw
[09:08] <chrisstubbsw> Morning Lunar_LanderU
[09:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> kajurria: I have Tracker centred on The Hague just in case
[09:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Chris
[09:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> HI Lunar_LanderU too :-)
[09:09] <Lunar_LanderU> hi G0TDJ_Steve
[09:11] <chrisstubbsw> The SSDV camera made it onto hackaday.com in case you didn't see this morning :)
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[09:11] <chrisstubbsw> However not sure I would call it a "video transmitter" at 1/3600 fps or whatever it works out to
[09:12] <Laurenceb_> Trappe has landed?
[09:12] <Steve_at_Work> chrisstubbsw: your famous now
[09:12] <DL1SGP> Good Morning Lunar_LanderU, chrisstubbsw, PH3V
[09:12] <PH3V> Goedemorgen ;-)
[09:13] <kajurria> good morning PH3V
[09:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Laurenceb_: Have a look at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24076168
[09:16] <kajurria> I just heard the launch of JNOSS1 has been delayed for a couple of hours because of the weather
[09:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks for the update
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[09:17] <cuddykid> top work with your transmitting camera chrisstubbsw
[09:18] <Maxell> kajurria: ah thanks
[09:18] <Maxell> hai PH3V
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[09:18] <kajurria> see www.buienradar.nl
[09:18] <Maxell> kajurria: still QRV till 5 PM amsterdam time
[09:19] <kajurria> I'm not sure what QRV means
[09:19] <kajurria> sorry I'm new to this
[09:19] <Maxell> ready :P
[09:20] <chrisstubbsw> Cheers cuddykid , good to hear your flight went well too!
[09:20] <staylo> 'First stop-over landing', hah! Very glad he made a safe landing though, I was a bit worried by that speedy descent, if the satellite tracker altitude was to be believed anyway
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[09:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> kajurria: QRV Are you ready? - I am ready.
[09:21] <kajurria> I see, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code
[09:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> kajurria: Yep
[09:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> There are a few common ones, the others aren't used much
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[09:22] <Rebounder> QLF can be a bit exciting in these digital days.. :)
[09:22] <mtak> We had to delay the launch of JNOSS1 high altitude ballon because of the weather
[09:22] <mtak> We expect to launch at 13:00 GMT+2
[09:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Also, kajurria Some have corrupted meanings. Like QRP which now means any power below 5W, more likely W and below
[09:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> *1W
[09:23] <kajurria> mtak: can't the weather balloon handle a little rain? :-)
[09:23] <mtak> Unfortunately not, Jeroen is afraid it'll get too heavy and rain is going to get on the lens
[09:23] <kajurria> ah that's true
[09:24] <fsphil> it's a kind of video chrisstubbsw :)
[09:24] <kajurria> I'm thinking of quickly driving to the hague to see the launch
[09:24] <mtak> Cool
[09:24] <kajurria> however I've only had 3 hours sleep due to the hackathon last night
[09:24] <chrisstubbsw> should have been 1/360 fps, this pc is too laggy to type
[09:24] <kajurria> soo a quick nap also is quite attractive
[09:28] <Chetic> has anybody actually tried using the RTLSDR plugin with SDR# here? http://sdrsharp.com/index.php/downloads
[09:28] <Chetic> it hasn't worked for me for a couple of months
[09:28] <Chetic> tried on 3 different computers
[09:28] <Chetic> it can't load the dll
[09:29] <nats`> ##rtlsdr is a better source of informations on that case I think :)
[09:30] <mfa298> Chetic: I think several people have used the rtlsdr with sdr#
[09:30] <Ugi> chrisstubbsw: Did you say that was y our Canon on Hackaday?
[09:30] <Ugi> your
[09:30] <Chetic> must be an older version then mfa298
[09:31] <chrisstubbsw> Ugi Yeah it is
[09:31] <Ugi> looks great - I didn't realise you could get at the i/o lines to drive a radio directly!
[09:31] <mfa298> from memory you need to get files from three places, sdr#, sdr# plugin and an additional dll (which should all be documented somewhere)
[09:32] <chrisstubbsw> Brb
[09:32] <Ugi> Next, you just need too hook it up to a GPS and make it a complete tracker!
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[09:35] <eroomde> mornatron
[09:37] <jcoxon> morning eroomde
[09:38] <Lunar_LanderU> hi
[09:38] <Rebounder> Chetic: works great for me with my dongles
[09:38] <craag> Chetic: Download the sdr-install.zip, extract all, run the batch file, and it'll set it all up for you!
[09:39] <Rebounder> Chetic: zadig is usually the big problem
[09:39] <craag> Well it won't set up zadig, which you'll need to wrestle with if you haven't already.
[09:39] <mfa298> Chetic: it's worth using the sdr-install script if you didn't as that gets all the bits you need (or use it as documentation of what to do as I don't think the install process is documented properly anywhere else)
[09:41] <Chetic> yeah sorry my bad
[09:41] <mfa298> Rebounder: the issue I've normally had is the relwithdebinfo step as that's not documented anywhere (apart from the install.bat script)
[09:41] <Chetic> the batch file didn't work before, it failed to download anything
[09:42] <Chetic> but it worked now and it turns out I forgot to copy x32\rtlsdr.dll when mimicking the batch file
[09:42] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
[09:42] <Chetic> thank god, no more localhost rtl_tcp
[09:42] <jcoxon> eroomde, playing with my F4 discovery board
[09:42] <eroomde> nice
[09:43] <eroomde> doing a brushless dc motor driver
[09:43] <eroomde> with quadrature encoder feedback and the other nice things
[09:43] <Rebounder> Chetic: rtl_tcp is very unstable for. tragic since all my radiostuff can sit to my comps
[09:43] <eroomde> useful for reaction wheels...
[09:43] <eroomde> also really *really* enjoying a moszkowski binge
[09:43] <eroomde> eg
[09:43] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgA6m53-KH4
[09:45] <Rebounder> Btw.. you guys have recommendation for discone-antenna?
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[09:47] <enkidu> it is just DIY stuff
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[09:51] <enkidu> use copper sheets or solder few wires
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[09:54] <Rebounder> enkidu: thought of actually buying one
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[09:56] <enkidu> actually it depends only on band you want to receive
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[10:03] <enkidu> but most of them will do
[10:07] <Rebounder> enkidu: ok, good tip as any :)
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[10:09] <gonzo_> recommendation for discone-antenna: don't use them. They really are poor
[10:09] <gonzo_> A bi-cone design is much better. But ideally use an antenna for each band you are going to receive.
[10:10] <enkidu> gonzo_: their advantage is bandwidth. but of course antenna per band is also good
[10:10] <enkidu> my friend was using two band antenna with traps
[10:11] <gonzo_> a good old dual/tri/quad band colinear will work well at it's designed freqs and aften quite a bit either side. And will probably still be bettey at totally way off freqs, than a discone
[10:11] <gonzo_> discones have such poor performance though
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[10:12] <Rebounder> gonzo_: ok, i maybe have to do some rethinking of what exactly fqs i want to listen to
[10:14] <gonzo_> no probs.
[10:14] <nerdsville> gonzo the big problem with discones or indeed any wideband antenna is they pull in everything, every piece of interference around you which isn't an issue with a good/expensive receiver but the poor old dongles really suffer in my experience
[10:14] <enkidu> for me best solution will be collinear combined with yagi
[10:15] <enkidu> nerdsville: in any case lna combined with saw bandpass will do
[10:16] <enkidu> I got so strong interference that even icom-9000 had troubles
[10:17] <nerdsville> enkidu I got a FCDP+ which has filters and is usuable with my discone, my older FCP which didn't have filtering was really prone to issues, found my RTL-SDR have similar issues, especially pager breakthrough
[10:18] <Rebounder> maybe i'll try to build some collinears with some new coax. the rg58 i have won't play nice when trying to solder the shielding. never seen such problem before.
[10:18] <enkidu> nerdsville: do you live between broadcast stations?
[10:18] <nerdsville> got a nearby fill in FM transmitter
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[10:20] <enkidu> Rebounder: rg58 may have aluminium shielding
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[10:20] <enkidu> look for full copper cables
[10:20] <nerdsville> don't under estimate the use of a coax notch filter if you have local interference http://nerdsville.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/rtlsdr-part-4-cutting-out-noise-using.html
[10:22] <enkidu> I know this approach but anyways I have to use amplifier for sdr in long reception
[10:23] <enkidu> also I dont have cable with known velocity factor
[10:24] <Rebounder> enkidu: mm, could be so.. nerver thought of that.. had my dad (55+ years as HM) try to solder it.. he couldnt.. saw that as a sign that it was some funny with the cable..
[10:24] <gonzo_> I've never had much success with coaxial colinears. But given the cost, and effort, it may be worth looking at commecrian colinears, even used ones
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[10:25] <gonzo_> the VF of coax is down to the dielectric. The usual nylon os 0.66 Foam is closer to 0.95 (but look it up)
[10:26] <enkidu> gonzo_: many coaxials have only few wires and aluminium foil. You would like to use bus cables
[10:26] <gonzo_> when I refer to coaxial colinears, I mean ones made by taking 1/2 wave lengths of coax and string them together soldered braid to inner along the length.
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[10:27] <enkidu> I think it could be easy to make colinear of water copper pipes
[10:27] <gonzo_> I've only ever used foil screened cable for rx, using sat TV cable. Never seen foil screened 50R cables?
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[10:28] <gonzo_> water pipes are heavy, but it is poss for higher freqs (short and light)
[10:28] <nerdsville> gonzo is the antenna just for receive?
[10:29] <enkidu> still it is possible to solder aluminium pipes
[10:29] <enkidu> you just need to clean it with sandpaper in oil
[10:29] <enkidu> and then solder it also in oil
[10:30] <gonzo_> for VHF you can make a slim jim out of wire/twin and put it in a plastic pipe.
[10:30] <gonzo_> interesting idea, never tried it
[10:30] <enkidu> I made it, but you need 150W soldering iron
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[10:31] <enkidu> it is also possible in vaseline
[10:31] <gonzo_> ali-ali I would bolt/clamp. And to terminate it I'd bolt trough some solderable lugs. Then coat the whole assy to keep the wx out
[10:31] <enkidu> anyways, you will also need some distances so wires wont touch
[10:32] <gonzo_> it is possible to solder ali-ali with a eutectic solder and blow torch. But that is expensive
[10:33] <gonzo_> nerdsville, I don't know. Will wait for more info from Rebounder
[10:33] <enkidu> you can try on ali beer can: put oil drop on it, scratch with knife, put some flux, then solder
[10:35] <gonzo_> nice excuse for opening a beer, but mine are all bottled
[10:35] <enkidu> got me
[10:36] <gonzo_> after a few beers I'll try bit on glass
[10:36] <gonzo_> it
[10:38] <Rebounder> My antenna is just for receiving.
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[10:45] <gonzo_> That does make it easier to plan for
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[10:58] <enkidu> for reception it is even better to make some narrowbands antennas
[10:58] <nerdsville> sorry was afk, radiozing have some cheap dual band collinears X30/X50 types around £40
[10:59] <Laurenceb> so trappe crashed??
[11:00] OZ8AAZ (~oz8aaz@194.47.243.42) joined #highaltitude.
[11:00] <x-f> he landed
[11:01] <Laurenceb> "crashed"
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[11:01] <Laurenceb> wonder if SV5DKL is around
[11:01] <Rebounder> ok, great tips guys! now afk feeding future young radionerds.. ;)
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[11:07] <nerdsville> so go on who is the balloon expert in the comments section? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10306400/Balloonists-attempt-to-cross-Atlantic-ends-after-only-12-hours.html
[11:10] bertrik_work (5a911fc2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.145.31.194) joined #highaltitude.
[11:13] <Laurenceb> "I expect the technical issue was that he realised "Up" was a cartoon and crapped his pants."
[11:13] <Laurenceb> lolling
[11:13] <bertrik_work> jnoss1 might be launching soonish from the hague, netherlands
[11:14] <Laurenceb> tbh i didnt see how he could do it
[11:14] <Laurenceb> too hard to get stable float with those balloons
[11:16] Mik_WD8MNV (32889d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.136.157.96) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:16] <Maxell> problem, JNOSS crew? http://i.imgur.com/LvZhxEf.png
[11:16] <Maxell> decoding before you guys are :P
[11:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Where is jnoss1 located ?
[11:22] <Maxell> Geoff-G8DHE: The Hague.
[11:22] <Maxell> "minor" GPS issues...
[11:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes "minor" ;-)
[11:24] <Maxell> :P
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[11:25] Action: enkidu wonder, if we will hear B11 again
[11:26] <Laurenceb> if its still up
[11:26] <Laurenceb> it might cross today
[11:26] <Laurenceb> or tomorrow
[11:27] <Laurenceb> need listeners to keep a lookout for it
[11:27] <Laurenceb> SV5DKL seems well placed
[11:28] karlo (d438e23c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.56.226.60) joined #highaltitude.
[11:28] karlo (d438e23c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.56.226.60) left irc: Client Quit
[11:29] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:30] <bertrik_work> more info on JNOSS1 at http://www.jeroennijhof.nl/wiki/index.php/JNOSS1
[11:32] <DL7AD> i informed SV5DKL as good as possible and he set up everything to receive B-11. i hope that its still alive and at the predicted position
[11:32] <Laurenceb> cool
[11:32] <Laurenceb> predicted position is a little tricky....
[11:32] <Laurenceb> maybe today or tomorrow....
[11:32] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) joined #highaltitude.
[11:32] <DL7AD> yes he's already receiving
[11:32] <DL7AD> hope for the best
[11:33] <Laurenceb> cool
[11:33] <enkidu> noone hear SP3OSJ?
[11:33] chrisstubbsw (~webchat@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:34] <enkidu> DL7AD: it should be stillin your range
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[11:34] <DL7AD> enkidu it died this early morning
[11:34] <DL7AD> cant hear anything
[11:34] <enkidu> oh, how? it had solars onboard ;/
[11:34] <Laurenceb> battery seemed very low
[11:35] <enkidu> alkaline cell
[11:35] <DL7AD> i will try to change the antenna
[11:39] <DL7AD> switched to omni... but cant hear it.
[11:39] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2013/09/12/digital-camera-becomes-video-transmitter/
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[11:43] <DL7AD> enkidu i already recognized 500 lcl that its not transmitting anymore. and at 600 lcl i tried to receive it again with my yagi. but i did not success
[11:44] <DL7AD> enkidu i monitored the balloon through the night every hour
[11:46] <enkidu> okay
[11:47] <DL1SGP> Any news concerning JNOSS1?
[11:50] <Maxell> DL1SGP: they seem to be rebooting it
[11:50] <Maxell> Last green decode 12 seconds ago was $$jnoss1,10,000343,0000.00000,00000.00000,0.000,NF,0.0,0.0,0,0.00,20.64,28.35,-1,-1,-1,160,0*7114
[11:50] <DL1SGP> Thanks Maxell !
[11:51] Action: DL1SGP keeps an eye on Hague area
[11:52] seventeen (021bf710@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.27.247.16) joined #highaltitude.
[11:52] <Maxell> :P
[11:52] <Maxell> I somehow have the feeling that the UHF transmitter is messing up the GPS reception.... http://www.jeroennijhof.nl/wiki/images/7/7d/Shieldtop.jpg
[11:54] <DL1SGP> that is a pretty picture!
[11:55] <DL1SGP> Maybe I should turn my directional antenna towards the Netherlands
[11:55] <Maxell> Not sure how high it will be and if you will be able to hear anything
[11:55] <Maxell> if they fly today!
[11:56] <chrisstubbsw> Ugi: thanks for the comments. You got me thinking and it may well be doable
[11:56] <DL1SGP> hehe some sports never hurt Maxell, all it takes is going outside, get on the roof and then use the Armstrong-Type Rotator
[11:57] <DL1SGP> currently it is pointing north east, nothing at all going on there :)
[11:58] <DL1SGP> also will give me the ability to check if wind messed up my rain gauge again or if it still is happy
[11:58] <Maxell> :P
[11:58] <Maxell> Armstrong-Type Rotator? :P
[11:59] <DL1SGP> takes a strong arm to rotate :)
[11:59] <Maxell> :P
[11:59] <Maxell> hand power best power?
[11:59] <Maxell> Position: 52.06291133,4.31611483
[11:59] <Maxell> woot, the hague
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[12:00] <Maxell> Altitude: 0 m yep \0/
[12:00] <kajurria> interesting GPS readings of jnoss1
[12:00] <kajurria> the weather balloon moved at lightning speed
[12:00] <DL1SGP> yay \0/
[12:00] <Maxell> $$jnoss1,18,120022,5203.79689,00418.97256,53.697,G3,2,0.0,0,8.28,17.28,23.55,29,1,100,288,2*3AA3
[12:00] <DL1SGP> that will be a new speed record :)
[12:09] <Maxell> We have signal
[12:09] <Maxell> Both decoding from RevSpace and work
[12:09] <Maxell> work with lulzy monopole :P
[12:10] <Maxell> It broke.
[12:10] <Maxell> Empty carrier.
[12:10] <Maxell> Oh, and back.
[12:10] <Maxell> pfew
[12:12] <DL1SGP> rotated
[12:12] <enkidu> DL7AD: can you hear radiosonde at 402.7 mhz NFM 5.4k no deemphasis?
[12:13] bertrik_work (5a911fc2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.145.31.194) joined #highaltitude.
[12:13] <bertrik_work> I saw JNOSS1 is up now
[12:14] <HixWork> so it seems, cheap crap ebay solderpaste is both cheap and crap http://i.imgur.com/z6cIa9y.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Ws4NQZD.jpg
[12:14] <DL7AD> enkidu where is it?
[12:14] <HixWork> and thats another MAX6 that's probably not going to work ever again...
[12:14] <Maxell> JNOSS1 needs some clean u I think :P
[12:14] <enkidu> DL7AD: over Warsaw about 12km by now
[12:15] <DL1SGP> that really looks crap HixWork!
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[12:15] <HixWork> yup
[12:15] <HixWork> maybe should have tried it on some caps to start off with, what a knob
[12:16] <DL7AD> enkidu ehm wait.... i have NFM but i cant switch off deemphasis
[12:16] <mfa298> HixWork: at least this way you'll remember the mistake.
[12:16] <HixWork> amazing how expensive cock-ups stay in the mind isn't it
[12:16] <enkidu> doesnt really matter, can you hear sound that could be next skrillex single?
[12:17] <Maxell> Cheap monopole works! http://i.imgur.com/n74jhTn.png
[12:17] <HixWork> still, when the Leica arrives I will try and hand solder them hopefully a lot easier under a scope
[12:18] <DL7AD> enkidu no i cant. my transceiver has a gap between vhf and uhf. its starting at 410mhz
[12:18] PA1SDB (c3f1b778@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.241.183.120) joined #highaltitude.
[12:19] <PA1SDB> Frequency JNOSS1 pse ?
[12:19] <enkidu> DL7AD: what model? ill avoid it when I gonna buy one
[12:19] <bertrik_work> 434.65 nominally
[12:19] <PA1SDB> tnx
[12:19] <Maxell> PA1SDB: 434.650 MHz
[12:19] <DL7AD> enkidu FT-847 you cant buy it anymore ;)
[12:20] <Maxell> see complete flightlist, or do RTTY 75 baud, ~370 Hz shift
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[12:20] <enkidu> on ebay probably I can ;)
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[12:23] <Maxell> bertrik_work: horay, our setup is useful!
[12:23] <enkidu> I found, that russians are using L-band radiosondes, so most of these I am listening to are from Poland. Now I just need to track one down
[12:23] <Maxell> I feel so proud, WHO IS CUTTING ONIONS?
[12:25] <DL7AD> checked again every direction for SP3OSJ with my yagi. no signal.
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[12:29] GapSpark (950b6832@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.11.104.50) joined #highaltitude.
[12:29] <GapSpark> Hello Friends!!
[12:30] DL1SGP (d90fa1b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.161.180) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[12:30] <GapSpark> i come with some bad news
[12:30] <GapSpark> very badness indeed
[12:30] <GapSpark> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24076168
[12:32] <GapSpark> We can now only hope that our hero Mr Trappe try to acomplish this great feat once again
[12:32] <bertrik_work> GapSpark: at least nobody got hurt
[12:33] <GapSpark> ofcourse no one got hurt
[12:33] <GapSpark> this is real life, not Jackass the movie
[12:35] <GapSpark> people don't get hurt anymore, risk assesments and Health and Safety have eliminated getting hurt
[12:35] <enkidu> health and safety
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[12:38] <DL7AD> http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder/blickpunkte5520.html
[12:39] <GapSpark> DL7AD: is this link work safe?
[12:39] <GapSpark> or is it some german lederhosen clad gay pornstar featured in it?
[12:39] <pdsi> Hello all, can anuone please help me with the ntx2 radio and raspberry pi?
[12:40] <DL7AD> enkidu there should be launched another polish balloon today, do you know something about? time, frequency eg.
[12:41] <bertrik_work> Could it be that JNOSS1 has no expected burst altitude configured?
[12:41] <GapSpark> a polish balloon?
[12:41] <Maxell> bertrik_work: that could be possible yes.
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[12:43] <Maxell> Receving HABs at work is doable! http://i.imgur.com/BEpnQMh.jpg
[12:43] DL1SGP (d90fa1b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.161.180) joined #highaltitude.
[12:44] <GapSpark> Shalom DL1SGP
[12:44] <HixWork> Maxell - do you receive decent signals indoors with that setup?
[12:44] <x-f> JNOSS1's telemetry string is just too long
[12:45] <mfa298> pdsi: how far have you got ?
[12:45] <HixWork> is it an RTLSDR in a case?
[12:45] <Maxell> HixWork: yes, RTLSDR/R820T tuner. No preamp.
[12:46] <HixWork> wow - there is hope for me at work yet. What antenna is it?
[12:46] <Maxell> HixWork: a while ago: http://i.imgur.com/eFx6zcT.png
[12:46] jim_g3wgm (5244226e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.68.34.110) joined #highaltitude.
[12:46] <HixWork> pretty sweet
[12:47] <Maxell> HixWork: no name, no gain, ~20 cm long
[12:47] Action: bertrik_work goes back to work
[12:47] <HixWork> heh
[12:47] <Maxell> My work is in a huge open hangar right now
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[12:47] <Maxell> One layer of thin metal thats between me and the HAB :P
[12:47] <GapSpark> Maxell: Pan am flight 103?
[12:48] <HixWork> ahh thought it was some kind of workshop. I may make a HABtracker in a case with antenna socket on the top
[12:48] <GapSpark> i thought that was Gaddafis work
[12:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can I have jnoss1 dial freq please guys?
[12:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Also, what settings for FLDigi
[12:49] <DL1SGP> 434.650
[12:50] <Maxell> G0TDJ_Steve: 434.650 MHz, dl-fldigi @ 2060 Hz
[12:50] <Maxell> G0TDJ_Steve: autoconfigure from "all" list.
[12:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers Maxell
[12:53] <Maxell> o/
[12:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Green decode here
[12:53] <Maxell> :)
[12:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> The sig is wandering a bit
[12:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> AFC having trouble keeping up
[12:54] <Maxell> Set AFC to fast!
[12:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyway, I have to get on with something. Hopefully the AFC will keep it in tune
[12:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Done Maxell
[12:56] <Maxell> yeh
[12:57] <gonzo_> anothe ballon I miss becasue I didn't turn the system on a home
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[12:58] <gonzo_> have ordered an RS232 controled relay box, so should be able to have remote power up again
[12:58] <Maxell> gonzo_: but if it mailed to the mailinglist you might have turned it on this morning
[12:58] <GapSpark> how do i tune into a radio balloon?
[12:58] <gonzo_> (the valleman kit that was on there died)
[12:58] <gonzo_> I only get the digests
[12:58] <gonzo_> so even then, I'd have missed it
[12:58] <GapSpark> i have Robertson SW radio which I use to SWL with
[12:58] <Maxell> hmm
[12:59] <GapSpark> please assist me ASAP TNX!
[12:59] <gonzo_> will the radio cover 434 mhz?
[12:59] <GapSpark> i don't think so
[13:00] <Maxell> gonzo_: yeah, ok, I heard about this flight yesterday evening, it was a last minute thing
[13:00] <gonzo_> then you can't receive most of the UK/Eu ones
[13:00] <pdsi> mfa298, I've connected the ntx2 to the raspberry pi according to the schematics of Dave Akerman, then when I send something do the radio I can ear it in my baofeng radio. The problem is that I'm getting just garbage. :(
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[13:00] <GapSpark> FUCK SAKE
[13:00] <gonzo_> who's she?
[13:01] <gonzo_> you need an RX that will cover the 434MHz band, and will resolve SSB
[13:01] <DL1SGP> pdsi: your RX does not do SSB if it is a Boafeng HT I fear
[13:01] <gonzo_> cheap way is to use an RTL dongle and a HabAmp
[13:02] <Maxell> pdsi: yeah, the Baofeng HT just doing FM, not SSB
[13:02] <gonzo_> or a Fun Cube Dongle, bit more expensiive. But nice
[13:02] <pdsi> oh f***
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[13:02] <GapSpark> fun cube
[13:03] <gonzo_> or a 70cm / UHF multi-mode amateur rig
[13:03] <Maxell> pdsi: rtl-sdr (the T820T tuner) and HABamp make a perfect tuner.
[13:03] <Steve_2e0vet> using python ehy am i getting unexpected indent error messages
[13:03] <Maxell> And a proper antenna, ofc.
[13:03] <Steve_2e0vet> *why
[13:03] <GapSpark> what a stupid name
[13:04] <GapSpark> Steve_2e0vet: it smells a fake ham
[13:04] <Steve_2e0vet> GapSpark, u lost me
[13:04] <kajurria> jnoss1 is doing quite well at the moment
[13:04] <kajurria> currently at 12km altitude
[13:04] <gonzo_> it was designed to receive a UK cube-sat that is due to launch later in the year, called fun-cube
[13:05] <GapSpark> gonzo why?
[13:06] <gonzo_> why what?
[13:07] <GapSpark> why is it called fun-cube?
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[13:07] <GapSpark> it would be fun if there was a monkey inside it flying it around or something
[13:07] <gonzo_> it follows on from the RSGB (UK amareur radio organisation) that promotes radio to school ages kids
[13:08] <GapSpark> but its just more junk blocking my night time view of mars
[13:08] <gonzo_> oh the irony
[13:08] <mfa298> pdsi: if that's something like the baofeng uv-5r handheld it wont be suitable. You need a radio reciever that can use SSB (LSB/USB) modulation, The baofeng handhelds are FM only
[13:09] <GapSpark> gonzo_ why would schoolkids need radio promoted to them?
[13:09] <x-f> :|
[13:09] <gonzo_> a 15cm cube is hardly going to block views
[13:09] <GapSpark> they have iphones and BBC radio 1
[13:09] <GapSpark> gonzo_: it could block my view
[13:09] <Maxell> kajurria: last decode was $$jnoss1,216,130911,5152.73917,00445.66138,14490.187,G3,0.0,0.0,0,8.39,34.08,-2.-57,13,1,100,3456,36*9DCE
[13:09] <Maxell> The tracker doesn't seem to update?!
[13:10] <gonzo_> and they have no appreciation of how they work. And if we are to encourage the next generation of engineers......
[13:10] <x-f> hmm
[13:10] <x-f> updated
[13:10] <x-f> Maxell, is it just me or JNOSS1 is indeed constantly drifting up?
[13:10] <GapSpark> gonzo_: most radio hams have no appreciation of how radio works
[13:10] <GapSpark> expecially M3/6 and 2E licence holders
[13:11] <x-f> i'm having hard time trying it to track on Breda GT
[13:11] <GapSpark> and any former no code class B sorts
[13:11] <Maxell> x-f: Seems stable at my end
[13:11] <Maxell> x-f: are you really in Breda? :o
[13:11] <x-f> Maxell, i'm using a globaltuner
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[13:12] <GapSpark> x-f: throw it away
[13:12] <Maxell> Ah, right :P
[13:12] <pdsi> thanks mfa298 and Maxell
[13:12] <Steve_2e0vet> any pyhon programmers here
[13:13] <Maxell> ~25 minutes ago it was in my dlfldigi at 2060 Hz, now it's at 2230 Hz.
[13:13] <gonzo_> passing a morse test is no measure of tech competence. And the foundation/intermediate licencees are just beginning. So give them some breating space
[13:13] <GapSpark> gonzo_ sure it is
[13:13] <gonzo_> admittedlt the people who are talking on air are not the ones doing groundbreaking work in their workshops
[13:14] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: unexpected indent would suggest you're indenting is wrong somewhere - remember python uses indents to group statements together.
[13:14] <GapSpark> passing morse test means person can generally write, which it seems most M3s cannot
[13:14] <gonzo_> morse =tech? your justification is?
[13:14] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, all I am foing is pressing return to the next line, maybe Notepad++ is doing something strange
[13:14] <gonzo_> we had three M6 passes at the club last week. All were under 12yrs
[13:15] <gonzo_> they are still learning to write
[13:15] <Steve_2e0vet> gonzo_, well said
[13:15] <GapSpark> the way to get more innovation from the ham community is to have a degree level course
[13:15] <GapSpark> with a 25wpm CW exam at the end
[13:16] <GapSpark> gonzo_: under 12? i'm sure all the pedo G7s will love that
[13:16] <kajurria> the guys chasing jnoss1 are on the highway right below
[13:16] <kajurria> approximately 16km
[13:16] <gonzo_> the inovation is coming from those who are professional engineers anyway.
[13:16] <Steve_2e0vet> CW is ia dying breed
[13:16] <gonzo_> it's a dead mode
[13:16] <Steve_2e0vet> most of its operaters are
[13:17] <gonzo_> hehe, well a listen on 8-0mtrs seems to support that
[13:17] <Maxell> kajurria: why are they not running a chase app so we see chase car? :P
[13:17] <Steve_2e0vet> gonzo_, i personally think there is a lot more skill and enjoyment in data modes, tapping a key has no appeal to me each to their own
[13:18] <GapSpark> i refuse to speak with 2E0 CB'er sorts
[13:18] <GapSpark> Steve_2e0vet: when you get a proper callsign i'll remove you from my /ignore list
[13:18] <GapSpark> its against the conditions of my licence
[13:18] <Upu> GapSpark please quit trolling only warning
[13:18] elf271 (d57d17c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.125.23.194) joined #highaltitude.
[13:18] jornt (jornt@roxy.dsinet.org) joined #highaltitude.
[13:18] <Steve_2e0vet> i seem to be getting a lot of QRM!!
[13:18] <GapSpark> Upu fuck off
[13:18] <Maxell> Steve_2e0vet: yeah, lucky me... No more morse code exam in The Netherlands.
[13:18] #highaltitude: mode change '+o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:19] <Maxell> woot woot
[13:19] GapSpark (950b6832@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.11.104.50) left #highaltitude.
[13:19] <Maxell> lol
[13:19] <DL1SGP> muahahaha
[13:19] <Steve_2e0vet> lol I can say what I want now, as GapShite has blocked me
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[13:19] <jornt> anyone following http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=jnoss1 ?
[13:19] Action: DL1SGP has a 2e0 call too :D
[13:19] <kajurria> hi jornt, yes me
[13:19] <kajurria> on the phone with the guys in the car
[13:20] <jornt> say hi to them from me ;)
[13:20] <gonzo_> Steve_2e0vet, fsphil and I did some tests a whiole ago. He wound his 817 down in power and we tried some mfsk modes ate progresivly lower powers. Was quite impressed. NI to Dorset on 500mw
[13:20] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:20] <jornt> kajurria: where is the car now?
[13:20] <Maxell> jornt: I am tracking it with two tuners
[13:20] <enkidu> radiosonde flight distance: 24km ><
[13:21] <kajurria> jornt: they are in Gorinchem
[13:21] <Steve_2e0vet> gonzo_, i very raely speak n the radio, its all data modes when i get the time that is
[13:21] <kajurria> jnoss1_chase is on the map now
[13:21] <jornt> what would the max altitude be?
[13:21] <gonzo_> I'm too busy in the workshop to talk on AR!
[13:21] <Maxell> nice
[13:22] <kajurria> jornt: thy are expecting 23-25km max
[13:22] <Maxell> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=jnoss1;jnoss1_chase :P
[13:23] <gonzo_> do we have a dial freq for jnoss?
[13:23] <x-f> Steve_2e0vet, you need to use the same indentation - either spaces or tabs, check what your editor is inserting
[13:23] <Maxell> gonzo_: 434.650 Mhz, dl-fldigi @ 2418
[13:23] <kajurria> 434652.67
[13:23] <kajurria> dial frequency: 434652.67
[13:23] <gonzo_> ta
[13:24] <HixWork> ooh I missed that little spell of hostility on a Firday afternoon. How exciting :)
[13:24] <Steve_2e0vet> it was fun!!
[13:24] <HixWork> Upu even deployed the BRASTRAP i see
[13:25] <Maxell> Oh, 434.652 Mhz dl-fldigi @ 1441 Hz, whoopsie
[13:25] iain_G4SGX (~iain@175.81.90.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:25] <gonzo_> getting trolled and refusing to bite. Good fun
[13:25] <mfa298> it's amazing how quickly troll's vanish when they see an op appear
[13:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good signal in Crayford Maxell kajurria http://i.imgur.com/i0bzpZx.jpg
[13:26] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[13:26] <mfa298> hopefully he returned to uk.radio.amateur as that looks like his sort of level
[13:26] <Maxell> G0TDJ_Steve: AFC holding up?
[13:26] <gonzo_> I initially thought that he was not english, from his earlier poor posts
[13:26] <kajurria> lol
[13:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Maxell: Works much better set on fast, cheers. Ididn't know there was a setting
[13:27] <HixWork> he was like the little chavs that give you the bird then shit themselves and run off
[13:27] <Maxell> G0TDJ_Steve: yep!
[13:28] Action: mtak is jnoss1_chase
[13:28] <Maxell> hi mtak
[13:28] <mtak> Hi
[13:28] <mtak> we're waiting for the balloon to catch up now
[13:28] <DL1SGP> copying the signal at my QTH as well
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[13:28] <mtak> Germany?
[13:29] <DL1SGP> yeah
[13:29] <mtak> Cool :)
[13:29] Chris___ (d57d17c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.125.23.194) joined #highaltitude.
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[13:30] <Maxell> The empty carrier is still creeping me out.
[13:30] Action: jornt slaps mtak with a large trout
[13:31] <mtak> every 3 cycles it tries to find a mobile network
[13:31] <gonzo_> and he falls in Teddington Lock
[13:31] <mtak> so the empty carrier takes a bit more time
[13:31] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:33] <kajurria> approaching the 20km mark
[13:33] <jornt> mtak: 20km
[13:33] <Maxell> mtak: why does the tracker has to wait for it?
[13:34] <Maxell> Why does it need cellular?
[13:34] <x-f> mtak, next time remember to alert the UKHAS mailing list, you'll get more trackers
[13:34] <DL1SGP> my dl-fldigi is not showing the flight of JNOSS1 in flight docs though I updated so if anyone could let me know the settings for the rtty it would be appreciated
[13:34] <Maxell> DL1SGP: it's in the testing list
[13:34] <DL1SGP> tu Maxell
[13:35] <Maxell> Configure, Operator, most right tab "DL-client", All flights, testing,
[13:35] <DL1SGP> yeah got it done
[13:36] <Maxell> Should be RTTY 75 baud, ~370 Hz shift.
[13:36] <DL1SGP> it is decoding :)
[13:36] <Maxell> 7N2... what
[13:36] <Maxell> Nice DL1SGP!
[13:36] <DL1SGP> nothing green yet but well
[13:38] <Maxell> PE2G and someone near also decoding!
[13:38] <mtak> Maxell: that's how it's coded
[13:38] <mtak> When it comes down it'll send a text message with coordinates as well
[13:38] <jornt> nice 21.5 km now
[13:39] <PE2G> jnoss1 took me by surprise
[13:39] <PE2G> Didn't expect a flight
[13:40] <kajurria> jnoss1 is full of surprises
[13:40] <jornt> 22km now
[13:40] <mtak> on Friday the 13th :)
[13:40] <nats`> is it possible to give some a record of a "strange" signal to have an idea of what it is
[13:40] <nats`> I can record it this evening it's here all the time
[13:41] <nats`> (on all my different receiver)
[13:41] <kajurria> mtak: how many seconds and fps does the camera allow to record?
[13:42] <Maxell> PE2G: yeah, I heard about it yesterday evening :P
[13:42] <DL1SGP> 1 green yay
[13:42] <Maxell> :O
[13:42] <mtak> kajurria: jeroen thinks about 8hrs of recording, 480p, 25fps
[13:42] <mtak> he's got an 8g sd card in there
[13:42] nerdsville (516285cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.98.133.203) joined #highaltitude.
[13:43] <DL1SGP> 373.9km distance, elevation 1.8deg, heading 258
[13:45] <enkidu> nats`: what kind of signal?
[13:45] <Maxell> 23 kilometers!
[13:45] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-104-230.static.vivaciti.org) joined #highaltitude.
[13:45] <enkidu> jnoss_chase Altitude: -9 m
[13:46] <DL1SGP> chaser-class submarine
[13:46] <jornt> enkidu: holland is below sea level ;)
[13:46] <enkidu> I know it ;)
[13:47] <enkidu> but looks funny compared to balloon altitude
[13:47] <enkidu> jnoss1 burst at?
[13:47] <jornt> 24km!
[13:48] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) joined #highaltitude.
[13:48] <Maxell> 24404 M
[13:48] <enkidu> imagine broadcast network utilising balloons...
[13:49] <Maxell> 24507 meters
[13:49] <PE2G> Maxell: What alt may we expect?
[13:49] <nats`> enkidu near 433MHz
[13:49] <nats`> strange repetitive crack
[13:49] <Maxell> PE2G: ~26km
[13:50] <nats`> and sometimes silence and some sort of digital communication
[13:50] <PE2G> Thanks
[13:50] <nats`> if lover in band I would have say a station number :D
[13:51] <DL1SGP> 25km mark reached
[13:51] <jornt> 25km!
[13:51] <Maxell> nice nice
[13:52] <nerdsville> jnoss1 freq 434.650MHz?
[13:52] <Maxell> nerdsville: 434.652 dl-fldigi @ 1400 Hz
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> what format is jnoss1 using ?
[13:53] <PE2G> 7n2 75 baud
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup found it in the test list!
[13:54] <DL1SGP> 26km reached
[13:54] <jornt> 26km!
[13:54] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[13:54] <Maxell> Geoff-G8DHE: Browse all and see the testing tab.
[13:55] <mtak> omg awesome this is me jnoss itseld :)
[13:55] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) joined #highaltitude.
[13:55] <jornt> mtak: 26.2 now
[13:56] <DL1SGP> 26.6
[13:56] <Maxell> 26.5 km
[13:56] <Maxell> :p
[13:56] <PE2G> mtak: congrats on your flight!
[13:56] <DL1SGP> tlm comes in nicely here now :D
[13:56] <Maxell> welcome to the Dutch habbing club :P
[13:56] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@83.93.227.209) joined #highaltitude.
[13:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi. Why is jnoss1 not in active flights?
[13:57] <SP3OSJ> to issue a formal, what is the frequency "jnoss1"?
[13:57] <Maxell> 27 km
[13:57] <jornt> 27km!
[13:57] <Maxell> now we see how well it's filled
[13:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> I have it on 434.651.6 mark@1400Hz
[13:58] <SP3OSJ> thanks!
[13:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still great sigs here Maxell mtak Well done
[13:58] jim (4700eb84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.0.235.132) joined #highaltitude.
[13:58] <Maxell> OZ1SKY_Brian: nice one!
[13:58] <mtak> nice and thanks!
[13:58] Nick change: jim -> Guest19694
[13:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> But jnoss1 is not in active flights, so no data in fldigi
[13:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Could someone activate it
[13:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> mtak are the pictures just being recorded, not sent?
[13:59] <mtak> this is actually my first hab project
[13:59] <DL1SGP> it is accessible through the test-flight list Brian, and Hej :D
[13:59] <mtak> yep
[13:59] <mtak> just recorded not send
[13:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'd appreciate seeing them later on if you can post a link
[14:00] <DL1SGP> [15:35] <Maxell> Configure, Operator, most right tab "DL-client", All flights, testing,
[14:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Some of them anyway
[14:00] <Maxell> or even, "Browse all", "testing"
[14:00] <PE2G> G0TDJ_Steve: Browse all > All Payloads (testing) > select JNOSS1 > Autoconfigure
[14:00] <enkidu> is this flight holding a camera?
[14:00] <jornt> almost 28km....
[14:00] <mtak> yes
[14:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP i know but that that dont activate the fldigi data boxes
[14:00] <kajurria> what's the world record for amateur balloons?
[14:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> PE2G: Was that meant for me? I'm already decoding
[14:00] <PE2G> I meant: OZ1SKY_Brian:
[14:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
[14:00] <Maxell> The browse all is next to the normal list
[14:01] <Maxell> Uh, 28 km now.
[14:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> PE2G yes but i get no data in time,lat,lon,alt etc
[14:01] Guest19694 (4700eb84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.0.235.132) left #highaltitude.
[14:01] <PE2G> OZ1SKY_Brian: Strange
[14:02] <nerdsville> got it on the waterfall, but also got a huge splogg of noise right on top of it :(
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> jonoss1 has now been authorised
[14:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> PE2G now i got data, dont know why it didnt work before. All ok now
[14:02] <PE2G> OZ1SKY_Brian: :)
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> tks priyesh
[14:03] <Maxell> yeah I have the same problem as OZ1SKY_Brian.... http://i.imgur.com/JBrTjZc.png
[14:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Geoff-G8DHE thanks, maybe that did it
[14:03] <Maxell> However this works fine on my laptop thats also decoding
[14:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Maxell look in active flights now, its there, if not then refresh the list
[14:03] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[14:03] <Maxell> kajurria: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[14:04] <mtak> the problem i face is my antenna and transmitter on board was not really made for 28km lol
[14:04] <enkidu> it is gonna blow in seconds
[14:04] <Maxell> OZ1SKY_Brian: ah, nice
[14:04] <jornt> 29km!
[14:04] <x-f> what size balloon is it?
[14:04] <DL1SGP> yeap :)
[14:06] <kajurria> the balloon is 500grams
[14:06] <enkidu> mtak: is it regular weather balloon?
[14:06] <costyn> hi guys
[14:06] <DL1SGP> it is following my GFS based prediction pretty well, just recalculated with new altitude
[14:06] <DL1SGP> hi costyn
[14:06] <costyn> any more details on what happened to Jonathan Trappe? The news outlets don't have much details
[14:07] <enkidu> he is safe
[14:07] <DL1SGP> 30km!
[14:07] <Maxell> Holy!
[14:08] <DL1SGP> 30293
[14:08] <enkidu> http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8623325/images/1268798124128.jpg
[14:08] <DL1SGP> 30406
[14:08] <Maxell> :P enkidu
[14:08] _bart (~bart@171.33.129.185) joined #highaltitude.
[14:09] <kajurria> lol
[14:09] <x-f> that's high for a 500g balloon!
[14:09] <enkidu> I hope it has chute
[14:09] <kajurria> yes the guys in the follow car are pretty amazed themselves, it's their first flight ever
[14:09] <DL1SGP> last sounding with WX sonde went up to 31249.3
[14:10] <enkidu> I havent noted maximum of my sonde
[14:10] <kajurria> if it bursts, how long will it take to get down on the ground approximately?
[14:10] <enkidu> 15-25 minutes
[14:10] <x-f> ~40 minutes, depends
[14:10] <DL1SGP> 31!
[14:11] <x-f> kajurria, how much does the payload weight?
[14:11] <kajurria> approximately 700 grams
[14:11] <Maxell> thats light :o
[14:11] <_bart> How heavy/long is the antenna used to contact the locators/radios?
[14:12] <x-f> Maxell, for the first flight - that's really light :)
[14:12] <DL1SGP> heh rtty taking a dramatic break
[14:12] <DL1SGP> to make us curious
[14:12] Nick change: LazyLeopard -> LazyL_M0LEP
[14:12] <mtak> I made a custom antenna 17cm based
[14:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> And what output power is the TX?
[14:12] <mtak> on the payload
[14:12] <Ugi> slowing down - I reckon that's elastic limit
[14:12] <mtak> 10mw
[14:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/jnoss1/
[14:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's amazing for 10mw
[14:13] <mtak> it is
[14:13] <Ugi> surprised if jnoss1 not burst in a few moments
[14:13] <mtak> nice geoff!
[14:13] <PE2G> burst
[14:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sounds like a burst now?
[14:13] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yep
[14:13] <Maxell> DL1SGP: yeah, like, "hmm I wonder if I would get GMS signal at 31 kilometers height"
[14:13] <DL1SGP> burst
[14:13] <enkidu> at last
[14:13] <Maxell> Burst at it's 400th packet :)
[14:14] <enkidu> 48.2 m/s
[14:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah bugger, repeater just started on the same freq
[14:14] <enkidu> 65.6
[14:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's fast! Has it got a parachute?
[14:14] <kajurria> uh oh
[14:14] <LazyL_M0LEP> Always fast up there...
[14:14] <kajurria> brace for impact
[14:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> INCOMING!
[14:15] <DL1SGP> burst altitude was pretty much 31689.285m I saw the burst on the signal, the typic rapid fading when it changes its direction, sweet!
[14:15] <Maxell> G0TDJ_Steve: yeah, thin air eh
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[14:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still got a great signal
[14:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no more decode here, repeater trafic started :-(
[14:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's stopped sending RTTY
[14:16] <PE2G> -51 m/s at 25 km is too fast
[14:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just have tone
[14:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Back
[14:16] <nerdsville> is it just a scream you can her steve?
[14:16] <Maxell> 2 hours and 10 minutes till burst
[14:16] <LazyL_M0LEP> Yeah, it seems to have periodic long pauses.
[14:16] <Maxell> thats nice
[14:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL @Andy
[14:17] <DL1SGP> according to the prediction I just ran it should come down somewhere near "Wijk en Wrestede" but that might be inaccurate cause I have no adjusted falling rate for that bird in the prediction :)
[14:17] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:17] <enkidu> like a brick
[14:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi James
[14:17] bertrik_work (5a911fc2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.145.31.194) joined #highaltitude.
[14:17] <jcoxon> hey G0TDJ_Steve
[14:18] <Maxell> The pauses is the GSM seeking for cellular networks.
[14:18] <SP3OSJ> CallSign: Jnoss1 f=434.650Mhz What is the format (RTTY 7n1 ????? shift; ????) as there is no auto-configuration in dl-fldigi :(
[14:18] <Maxell> To send text with gps pos
[14:18] <bertrik_work> awful lot of water near the expected landing site for JNOSS1
[14:18] <Maxell> SP3OSJ: use autoconfigure
[14:18] <Maxell> :P
[14:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> SP3OSJ: Bworse all and it's in there. You will be lucky, it's on it's way down - FAST!
[14:18] <Maxell> reload flight list
[14:18] <bertrik_work> RTTY 75 / 350 Hz shift on 434.65 MHz
[14:18] <_bart> Are the radio locators also available for non-weatherballoon projects? Like an autonomous light-weight plane or copter?
[14:18] <Maxell> DL Client > reload flights
[14:18] <kajurria> do you guys think the parachute is working?
[14:19] <Maxell> _bart: if it's high enough so we can hear it
[14:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> At 46! I don't think so...
[14:19] <_bart> Maxell, what's the threshold? How high?
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/jnoss1/index.php?ind=1
[14:19] <kajurria> we have to deploy the parachute first
[14:19] J_ (d57d17c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.125.23.194) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] <Maxell> _bart: horizon. I was able to pick up JNOSS1 at ground level. (both in The Hague)
[14:20] <LazyL_M0LEP> When it gets lower the parachute should start working...
[14:20] <enkidu> silence is always thrilling
[14:20] <Maxell> _bart: the higher you go the more people that will be able to rech you
[14:20] <LazyL_M0LEP> However, it seems to have given up transmitting reliably...
[14:20] <Maxell> No LazyL_M0LEP
[14:20] <Maxell> Thats intented
[14:21] <Maxell> It's seeking for cellular networks
[14:21] <LazyL_M0LEP> 5 minutes since last fix.
[14:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Gone now here UK, south coast
[14:21] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:21] <Maxell> _bart: how high do you plan to fly?
[14:22] <DL1SGP> yeah I only got a faint trace of the signal but no more decodes possible :)
[14:22] <bertrik_work> JNOSS1 is still transmitting, but spacenear is not updating for me
[14:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Loosing it here, lots of corruption
[14:22] <Maxell> bertrik_work: same here
[14:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, Tracker not updated here
[14:23] <LazyL_M0LEP> 7 minutes since last fix on spacenear.us.
[14:23] <Maxell> Happend once before in this flight.
[14:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Signal weakening here
[14:23] <Maxell> Last RX 11 secs ago: $$jnoss1,427,142246,5152.08026,00510.33712,11793.712,G3,0.0,0.0,0,8.19,26.39,-17.-77,-1,-1,-1,6832,70*7BA3
[14:23] <PE2G> It's desending at 12 m/s at 14200 m, which is very nice
[14:23] bravehurt (d57d17c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.125.23.194) joined #highaltitude.
[14:23] <kajurria> the guys are screaming eureka in the car
[14:24] <_bart> Maxell: Not sure yet, I got some parts, like light-weight solar panels and a raspberry pi, but I'm still considering designs.
[14:24] <kajurria> PE2G thanks for the speed reading, they were crossing their finger
[14:24] <kajurria> s
[14:25] <Maxell> dat adrenaline rush ;)
[14:25] <Maxell> _bart: ok, but should I think like >5 kilometers?
[14:25] <_bart> Maxell: Yes, probably
[14:25] <_bart> Maxell: well, depends on the goal
[14:26] <Maxell> _bart: getting it tracked in .nl would not be a problem at >5 km
[14:26] <LazyL_M0LEP> Ok, so either something at spacenear.us has crashed or packets aren't getting uploaded...
[14:26] <LazyL_M0LEP> Lost signal here a while back.
[14:26] <PE2G> Well, -17 m/s at 9500 m...
[14:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Try manuel upload
[14:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Fading here. Still on the W/F but not decodable. I recovery goes OK
[14:26] <jcoxon> okay
[14:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> I suspect packets aren't getting fed back
[14:26] <SP3OSJ> Now is JNOSS in dl-fldigi. Need to enable "Browse all" and "Refrash flights/payloads"
[14:26] <Maxell> $$jnoss1,437,142616,5151.07649,00512.21523,8368.604,G3,0.0,0.0,0,8.16,7.20,-17.-51,-1,-1,-1,6992,72*07B6
[14:26] <jcoxon> so the format of the packets have changed
[14:26] Nick change: LazyL_M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[14:26] <jcoxon> they are getting to the server
[14:26] <Maxell> $$jnoss1,438,142634,5151.00434,00512.32930,8110.945,G3,0.0,0.0,0,8.16,15.84,-17.-51,-1,-1,-1,7008,72*AA46
[14:26] <_bart> Maxell: I'm choosing between two goals, goal 1, fly it as high as possible and shoot pretty pictures of the earth. Goal 2: fly it around the earth (jules verne ftw)
[14:26] <jcoxon> (field temperature_external): invalid literal for float(): -17.-51
[14:27] <bertrik_work> ah, classic mistake :)
[14:27] <Maxell> heh
[14:27] <kajurria> why is the tracker not updating?
[14:27] <kajurria> I'm trying to steer the guys to the pickup spot
[14:27] <Maxell> kajurria: 16:26:46 < jcoxon> so the format of the packets have changed
[14:27] <bertrik_work> kajurria: temperature strings are invalid
[14:27] <Maxell> Ok, so this has happend before, and fixed itself.
[14:28] <LazyLeopard> kajurria: Seems the packet line format is up the creek. ;)
[14:28] <jcoxon> habitat team are on it
[14:28] <Maxell> jcoxon: sweet <3
[14:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Why did the format change? D
[14:28] <kajurria> can we hotpatch it? :)
[14:28] <kajurria> otherwise the guys have no idea where to go
[14:28] <Maxell> jcoxon: 16:28:03 < jcoxon> habitat team are on
[14:28] <Maxell> :P
[14:28] <bertrik_work> perhaps wait until it gets > 0 degrees again
[14:28] Action: DL1SGP hopes to see the pretty pictures that JNOSS1 shot in a while
[14:29] <Maxell> kajurria: last known pos: $$jnoss1,443,142804,5150.82170,00512.95517,6858.054,G3,0.0,0.0,0,8.15,1.44,-10.-84,-1,-1,-1,7088,72*709D
[14:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Same here DL1SGP
[14:29] <bertrik_work> it's at about 6km high now
[14:29] <Maxell> $$jnoss1,444,142850,5150.75113,00513.35489,6240.328,G3,0.0,0.0,0,8.12,1.92,-6.-4,-1,-1,-1,7104,74*7318
[14:29] <Maxell> etc
[14:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> -6.-4 is the problem i gess
[14:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thats not a valid temp readout
[14:30] <Maxell> OZ1SKY_Brian: yeah "16:26:57 < jcoxon> (field temperature_external): invalid literal for float(): -17.-51"
[14:30] <bertrik_work> nearly at positive temperatures
[14:30] <Maxell> yep
[14:30] <bertrik_work> 5km to go down
[14:30] <Maxell> at 0
[14:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> manuel upload it and edit it to -6.4
[14:30] <adamgreig> don't change the checksum
[14:30] <adamgreig> won't
[14:31] <Maxell> OZ1SKY_Brian: "16:28:03 < jcoxon> habitat team are on"
[14:31] <adamgreig> so if you change by hand it'l reject based on checksum
[14:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> there we go
[14:31] <PE2G> -12,5 m/s at 5000 m, which is too fast
[14:31] <adamgreig> I suspect the temperature will pick up enough for it to not be an issue shortly anyway
[14:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> adamgreig yes your right
[14:31] <Maxell> R.I.P. JNOSS1
[14:31] <bertrik_work> it's updating again
[14:32] <jornt> i hope it won't end up in the river :)
[14:32] <kajurria> it's on the map again, nice
[14:32] <enkidu> jornt: nor on railroad
[14:32] <PE2G> Radiosondes love rivers :)
[14:32] <enkidu> and trees
[14:33] <bertrik_work> perhaps hitting a tree would be a blessing at this descent speed
[14:33] <Guest87501> Tress break the fall of 10m/s
[14:33] <Maxell> and #1 worlds worst lasting spots :P
[14:33] <Ugi> Chase car might see it come down!
[14:34] <kajurria> they're quite close
[14:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/jnoss1/index.php?ind=2
[14:36] <bertrik_work> revspace still has solid decodes
[14:36] <Maxell> bertrik_work: costyn: ;)
[14:36] <Ugi> Is it in the river?
[14:37] <bertrik_work> about 1km to go now for JNOSS1
[14:37] <PE2G> No, but there is some other water over there
[14:37] <Guest87501> yes wind, away from the river
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[14:37] <costyn> Maxell: wut?
[14:37] <kajurria> the course is quite nice
[14:37] <bertrik_work> might hit a tree anyway
[14:37] <Maxell> costyn: nice decodes from revspace \o/
[14:37] Action: DL1SGP wonders if it would work to catch a payload in decent by approaching some solid built RF Plane in FPV and hook it for slowing down further... but additional 700g might be too much for RF Plane, could work with something like 22g
[14:37] <enkidu> one minute till crash
[14:37] <costyn> Maxell: ah ok good
[14:37] <Maxell> And gone
[14:38] <bertrik_work> we lost decodes at 475m
[14:38] <Maxell> Last packet heard: $$jnoss1,470,143728,717156,00516.34513,475.482,G3,0.0,0.0n(0n07q>44,22*48,-1,,1-17207<A1
[14:38] <PE2G> My last decode: $$jnoss1,469,143711,5150.10173,00516.27127,647.817,G30.0,0.0,0,8.09,14.40,29.15,-1,-1,-1,7504,78*E711
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[14:38] <Maxell> we win!
[14:38] <costyn> Maxell: who's balloon is it?
[14:38] <Maxell> costyn: I think mtak/kajurria
[14:38] <costyn> cool
[14:39] <bertrik_work> costyn: http://www.jeroennijhof.nl/wiki/index.php/JNOSS1
[14:39] <costyn> a 3rd HAB team in the NL
[14:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no decodes from the chacecar?
[14:39] <enkidu> landing zone photos
[14:39] <kajurria> they are still decoding
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[14:39] <Maxell> Pfft, 0.3 elevation from horizon. Too bad it was falling so fast.
[14:39] <kajurria> 5150.31137,00516.5034
[14:39] <Maxell> Last packet was at 10 m/s
[14:40] <enkidu> they will need shovels
[14:40] <costyn> very cool
[14:40] <Maxell> Position: 51.838526,5.275088 Altitude: 41 m
[14:40] <Maxell> Tracker survived!
[14:40] <DL1SGP> woot woot
[14:41] <kajurria> -1.7m/s is great
[14:41] <kajurria> they are close
[14:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> congratulation to the team
[14:41] <Maxell> Nice save
[14:41] <Ugi> I just hope they didn't have tall hats on!
[14:41] <kajurria> they don't have it yet
[14:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> kajurria but they will
[14:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> should be a easy find
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[14:42] <DL1SGP> cornfield landing? :)
[14:42] <Ugi> given everything it went over at low attitude, that's a pretty sweet spot to land!
[14:43] <kajurria> indeed
[14:43] <kajurria> looks like a cornfield
[14:43] <DL1SGP> :D
[14:43] <kajurria> I hope they have tall shoes on
[14:43] <kajurria> probably wearing their sneakers instead
[14:43] <DL1SGP> over here the issue with cornfields are the Boars :D
[14:44] <enkidu> hope that no farmer got hit
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[14:44] <DL1SGP> maybe they asked at that farm first if it is OK to access property, that is good practice
[14:44] <kajurria> they have a problem with a guard dog
[14:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ooops
[14:45] <Maxell> lol
[14:45] <costyn> DL1SGP: I brought along a bottle of wine to placate any landowners
[14:45] <HixWork> or the guard dog has a problem with them :)
[14:45] <nats`> guard dog often win the fight
[14:45] <costyn> DL1SGP: and yes, first ask, but sometimes a random field has no obvious owner
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[14:45] <Ugi> It's mighty warm there : 40'C
[14:45] <DL1SGP> when we asked the landlord of the property our second balloon went down at he said "OK" he did not expect so much folks to come in for retrieval
[14:45] <kajurria> or maybe it's on fire
[14:46] <kajurria> it's quite cold here
[14:46] <DL1SGP> the dog ate it!
[14:46] <costyn> DL1SGP: hehe
[14:46] <nats`> oO
[14:46] Action: DL1SGP hopes they have a tall knife
[14:47] <DL1SGP> hmm guard-dog issue... 40deg external
[14:47] <DL1SGP> has it crashed into a hidden weed farm?
[14:47] <nats`> hey good idea ! you put some artificial perfume of rotten meat in a box
[14:47] <nats`> when the payload land the box open
[14:47] <nats`> and you can track your balloon with dogs
[14:47] <kajurria> it's a tree farm
[14:48] <Maxell> here you can see the first time the temprature spacing out: http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/jnoss1/jnoss1_201309131524.jpg
[14:48] <PE2G> Looks like the landing spot is in a fruit farm
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[14:48] <DL1SGP> nats`: another option would be to replicate the scent of a female canine in heat
[14:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/jnoss1/index.php?ind=0
[14:48] <nats`> I let you do that ok... :D
[14:48] <nats`> I don't want to know how you'll take the first natural sample
[14:48] <nats`> :p
[14:48] <DL1SGP> and start spraying out the aerosol at 20m above ground
[14:49] <nats`> and how do you wash you payload box after all the dogs come by ? -_-
[14:49] <nats`> :$
[14:49] <DL1SGP> the payload would have the shape of an artificial female canine of course, there are such available on market for when male dogs get too horny :P
[14:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lokks like they are in the field now
[14:49] <nats`> oO
[14:49] <nats`> hooo seriously ?
[14:50] <nats`> they do that ?
[14:50] <nats`> -_-
[14:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> on foot i hope
[14:50] <costyn> nats` / DL1SGP : your conversation is going downhill fast :P
[14:50] <kajurria> they are on foot
[14:50] <kajurria> almost there
[14:50] <DL1SGP> http://www.hotdollfordog.com/
[14:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> we need live video and benny hill music
[14:51] <bertrik_work> kajurria: are you in the retrieval party?
[14:51] <costyn> DL1SGP: not the appropriate channel
[14:51] <kajurria> they got him!
[14:51] <Laurenceb> fapfapwooffap
[14:51] <costyn> yay
[14:51] <bertrik_work> \o/
[14:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> great
[14:51] <DL1SGP> costyn: it is going downhill as fast as the decent of the balloon, if you feel annoyed by my spurious chatter feel free to ignore me
[14:51] <costyn> kajurria: congrats
[14:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> YAY! Well done guys, great flight and recovery :D
[14:52] <kajurria> I'm on the phone with them
[14:52] <costyn> DL1SGP: yea, but we try to keep the conversation here civil and on-topic, especially during launch/chase/retrieval when it is already busy
[14:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> Very impressive for a first flight. I hope mine goes half as well!
[14:53] <PE2G> Congratulations, great first flight!
[14:53] <kajurria> they are cheering, thanks for the congrats
[14:53] <x-f> nice, congrats!
[14:54] <Guest87501> Congrats@
[14:54] <kajurria> hey sent me a picte
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[14:54] <kajurria> picture
[14:54] <DL1SGP> congrats, great flight!
[14:54] <kajurria> let me get it online and post it here
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[14:57] <kajurria> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/560kmbsxzaeqk0u/9CmSWgIJuY
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[14:58] <Guest87501> Nice!
[14:58] <DL1SGP> great pictures
[14:58] <kajurria> there are 3 pictures now
[14:59] <DL1SGP> is he playing snake on that cellphone?
[14:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Object Movie for those who lke them http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/jnoss1/JNOSS1_20130913.html
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[15:00] <kajurria> Geoff: cool thanks
[15:00] <kajurria> it was quite a steep dive at first
[15:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> If a Pano from burst helps give me a shout
[15:02] <bertrik_work> I hope the contents of the payload survived
[15:02] <bertrik_work> if the tracker survived impact, perhaps the other stuff survived it too
[15:02] <PE2G> Geoff-G8DHE: Thanks for the movie Geoff, I really like those views from all sides!
[15:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> They do help visualise the path!
[15:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just wish GE would let ne get the full resolution :-(
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[15:04] <Ugi> Well done all involved with JNOSS1
[15:04] <PE2G> Geoff-G8DHE: Quality is good enough for me!
[15:05] <DL1SGP> I like that sphere payload shape, reminds me a bit of sputnik :)
[15:05] <DL1SGP> and the fruits on the farm look tasty too
[15:06] <Ugi> hi chrisstubbs - sorry I was at lunch earlier
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[15:09] <YU1TTN> hello
[15:09] <DL1SGP> hello YU1TTN
[15:09] <DL1SGP> nice to meet you
[15:10] <YU1TTN> Hi DL1SGP!
[15:10] <YU1TTN> I see on the page http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=SP3OSJ that package is still at ~5000m ?
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[15:10] <YU1TTN> what happend with SP3OSJ?
[15:10] <YU1TTN> I stopped following him last night
[15:11] <DL1SGP> we have not heard from it for a long time. it might have ceased transmitting
[15:11] <fsphil> any of our UKHAS foundation exam participants got a callsign yet?
[15:11] <DL1SGP> I do not think that Ofcom is that fast fsphil
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[15:11] <YU1TTN> hm.. it was pretty much time at the atmosphere maybe low temperature caused that
[15:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> YU1TTN its lots
[15:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> YU1TTN no signal from it last 17 hours
[15:12] <fsphil> woo, severe gales for the north of the UK this sunday
[15:13] <YU1TTN> tnx Brian.. This is very interesting project. My friend and I are planing to release ham balloon filled with He into atmosphere.. Trying to have as much as possible home-made stuff on it
[15:13] <fsphil> DL1SGP: yea I can't remember how long it took for mine
[15:13] <fsphil> but it was less than a week
[15:14] <YU1TTN> for now I made some demonstration board for some testing, but that one prob won't go up there
[15:14] <DL1SGP> hmm
[15:14] <DL1SGP> I wonder if I still have the data on mine
[15:14] <DL1SGP> let me check
[15:14] <craag> fsphil: It seems some still haven't got their confirmation back from the RSGB.
[15:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> YU1TTN very nice, dont think we have seen any launches from serbia yet
[15:15] <YU1TTN> Brian, well no.. There was two of them from Croatia but none from Serbia
[15:15] <YU1TTN> on 1st of September Croats release 9A5B their second ham balloon
[15:16] <YU1TTN> this project amazed me how all the things are minimalized and tiny :) just few grams of load
[15:16] <jcoxon> anyone familiar with ADC on an STM32F4 discovery board?
[15:16] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes some flight are very light
[15:17] <fsphil> hehe, http://what-if.xkcd.com/62/
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[15:17] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, with the ADC, if i've selected channel 0 is that therefore PA0 on the board itself?
[15:18] <Laurenceb> yes.. it think
[15:18] <Laurenceb> look at the datasheet
[15:18] <Laurenceb> each channel is assigned to a fixed pin
[15:19] <YU1TTN> if you dont have enought ADC pins, or want much more, maybe you can try with IC 4051
[15:19] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/jp/resource/technical/document/user_manual/DM00093903.pdf
[15:20] <YU1TTN> this is first demo-board for our project
[15:20] <YU1TTN> http://www.pirot.org/phpmyboard/uploads/c5/f4/1_18_101_AREA1_2.jpg
[15:22] <HixWork> Laurenceb you appear to be king of hte datasheets :)
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[15:22] <Laurenceb> id like to try running qt on that thing
[15:22] <HixWork> hi daveake how is brastrap going :)
[15:23] <daveake> Well aside from the number of hours it's taken to get a 3G connection that doesn't cost 4 arms and 8 legs ...
[15:25] <HixWork> :)
[15:26] <fsphil> Hola!
[15:27] <fsphil> has anything crashed or exploded yet?
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[15:28] <HixWork> and fsphil was just referring to Ryanair
[15:28] <fsphil> crashes and explosions are charged as extras
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[15:28] <HixWork> heh
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[15:31] <kajurria> I'm leaving
[15:31] <kajurria> thanks guys for tracking us
[15:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> It was a pleasure kajurria
[15:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tks for something to track!
[15:32] <daveake> no explosions yet but there is some smoke
[15:32] <daveake> (from a frying pan)
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[15:32] <HixWork> jambon
[15:33] <daveake> cheese omelette
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[15:33] <HixWork> missig the jambon
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[15:39] <daveake> Got some Spanish sausage stuff in there too
[15:39] <daveake> lol @ the prediction (see ZURG on spacenear)
[15:39] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[15:40] <adamgreig> daveake: convenient!
[15:40] <daveake> just a tad
[15:40] <daveake> shame the launch is on Monday (probably)
[15:40] <adamgreig> yea really
[15:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thats a launch and wait
[15:41] <HixWork> ahh chorizo, good work
[15:41] <HixWork> right, vive le weekend! laters peoples
[15:42] HixWork (~hixwork@78-105-50-72.zone3.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> adios
[15:43] <daveake> launch and beer
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[15:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> enjoy, im on standby, so no beer allowed :-(
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[15:56] Action: LU8DQ think: beer or not to beer, thats the question
[15:57] <Babs___> Afternoon all - a quick question - what is the best way to attach a wire to this ?
[15:57] <Babs___> http://m.imgur.com/XIsypKy
[15:58] <LU8DQ> welding? :)
[15:58] <Ugi> Babs___: All I see is a black page - best way is to turn on a light first!
[16:01] <chrisstubbs> babs they look like little solder cups
[16:02] <DL1SGP> yes
[16:02] <chrisstubbs> insert wire and fill with solder
[16:04] <Babs___> Thanks chrisstubbs - I've done that before but these are 4mm wide which is wider than I've seen before so just checking
[16:04] <Babs___> And heat shrink to give some integrity?
[16:04] <chrisstubbs> Sounds like a plan
[16:04] <chrisstubbs> what are they for?
[16:05] <Babs___> I'm building a gimbal for an active stabilisation camera
[16:05] <Babs___> And I need to connect certain things up that will be disconnected very occasionally but not too often
[16:05] <Babs___> (Mainly motors and gyros
[16:06] <Babs___> And wanted something that was fairly heavy duty, but still removable
[16:06] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[16:06] <Babs___> That NTX 2 chdk camera combo you had at the Conf was v cool btw
[16:07] GapSpark (950b6832@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.11.104.50) joined #highaltitude.
[16:07] <GapSpark> hello friends
[16:13] <WillTablet> Hi
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> Cheers :) Was featured on hackaday.com this morning!
[16:15] <daveake> Nice :)
[16:16] <Steve_2e0vet> what do most people use to send RTTY 7,N,1 ??
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[16:16] <Steve_2e0vet> 50 baud
[16:16] <adamgreig> chrisstubbs: I saw on hackaday! nice going ;)
[16:17] <adamgreig> it popped up and I was like "haha oh I recognise that camera!"
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[16:17] <daveake> Steve_2e0vet 2 stop bits tends to work better IME
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[16:18] <Steve_2e0vet> daveake, thanks dave just trying to get it working on the pi but its hit and miss
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[16:18] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: also depends on what you're sending, 50bd 7n2 is good for telemetry,
[16:18] <mfa298> faster and 8bit for ssdv
[16:18] <mfa298> I think some people have found 50bd on the pi to be a bit tempermental
[16:19] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, just telemetry at the moment, ive proved SSDV havent got confidence to get them working at the same time at the mo
[16:20] <mfa298> remember you need to configure speed and bits on the tx (pi) and rx (dl-fldigi) sides
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[16:23] Action: G0TDJ_Steve is still looking forward to daveake's conference docs when they become available
[16:24] <costyn> chrisstubbs: very cool!
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[16:27] <chrisstubbs> hahaa nobody has picked up on the drinking straw in the bottom of the test photo
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[16:31] <GapSpark> what is daveake?
[16:31] <daveake> good question
[16:31] <Babs___> That is a philosophical question
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> He is a bag of impure water.
[16:32] <daveake> The impurity is key
[16:32] <GapSpark> davake has malaria or something in it?
[16:33] <GapSpark> FFS quit cunting around and tell me what the fuck daveake is
[16:35] <daveake> GapSpark You might want to find a more suitable outlet.
[16:35] <costyn> GapSpark: http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/12/07/dave_akerman.jpg
[16:35] <costyn> chrisstubbs: and which test photo do you mean?
[16:36] <Laurenceb> what is John Galt
[16:36] <GapSpark> so why did no one just say daveake is a ugly fat middle age geek?
[16:36] <GapSpark> instead of fucking around
[16:37] <costyn> lol
[16:37] Action: daveake 's ignore list doubles in size
[16:37] <DL7AD> :D
[16:37] <costyn> daveake: who was the other person?
[16:37] <Laurenceb> my ignore list is rapidly expanding :P
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[16:37] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[16:38] #highaltitude: mode change '+b *!*950b6832@*.149.11.104.50' by jonsowman!~jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com
[16:38] GapSpark kicked from #highaltitude by jonsowman: swearing etc
[16:38] <daveake> Cheers
[16:38] <costyn> nice one
[16:38] <DL1SGP> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/attachment/ticket/112/GapSpark_fedora_2012-05-22.txt he has not learned much the past 16 months
[16:39] <daveake> Yeah I checked zeusbot earlier when my SpideySense triggered
[16:39] <fsphil> saw that coming
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[16:39] <SpeedEvil> Sheyit.
[16:39] <mfa298> He was trolling earlier and left when Upu op'ed up
[16:39] Action: SpeedEvil realises he's closing on 600 ebay transacitons
[16:39] <mfa298> He was also trolling a couple of days ago
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly - that's under one a week.
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[16:42] <jonsowman> "I didn't mean to insult anyone"
[16:42] <jonsowman> "it was said as a joke"
[16:42] <jonsowman> hmm
[16:43] <daveake> riiight
[16:43] <mfa298> I think the way he left earlier proves that's not the case
[16:44] <daveake> Looking at his posts so far, he's just trolling for fun
[16:44] <daveake> And he needs to find somewhere more suitable. kindergarten.net or something
[16:44] <gb73d> N0GX good try
[16:44] <mfa298> he was around on the 9th as well based on my logs
[16:44] <jonsowman> oh he has aspergers
[16:44] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: you'll definitly need 8-bit rtty for ssdv :)
[16:45] <fsphil> 7-bit is better for text-only payloads
[16:45] <fsphil> no point wasting an extra bit that'll never be used
[16:48] <daveake> jonsowman lol
[16:48] <Steve_2e0vet> just looking for rtty at the moment so is the concenceous 7,n,2
[16:48] <daveake> fsphil save the bits :)
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[17:07] <DL7AD> .
[17:07] <Laurenceb> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2013/08/25/ambient-backscatter-wireless-communication-out-of-thin-air/
[17:10] <daveake> costyn: The other half of my list is young Will
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[17:43] <DL7AD> hey!!!! theres 4x1rf on the map!
[17:44] <enkidu> ?
[17:45] <DL7AD> have a look on spacenear
[17:45] <DL7AD> one station in israel
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> Coolio! is it real?
[17:47] yo5pjb (598973af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.137.115.175) joined #highaltitude.
[17:47] <craag> I think I've talked to him on hf..
[17:48] <craag> I say talked... it was a qso, but barely.
[17:48] <DL7AD> and you told him about b-11 and that we need his help?
[17:48] <craag> Oh this was months ago
[17:48] <craag> probably a year actually
[17:48] <craag> but I recognise the callsign!
[17:49] <enkidu> anyhow he is too far now
[17:49] <DL7AD> enkidu what do you mean with too far?
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[17:50] <enkidu> too far to receive B11 if it is in predicted place
[17:50] <DL7AD> enkidu no have a look to the updated prediction ;)
[17:50] <enkidu> libya/algeria/niger/tchad
[17:50] <DL7AD> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA.gif
[17:51] <enkidu> he may try OC
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[17:51] <enkidu> but I'd rather trust archives not models
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[17:52] <enkidu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19799_trj001.gif
[17:59] <LeoBodnar> If B-11 is still alive and moving back it should overfly Israel tomorrow night
[17:59] Action: DL1SGP hopes for B-11 to be alive
[17:59] <enkidu> it should be alive
[17:59] <LeoBodnar> or day
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> Maybe aliens ate it
[18:01] <DL1SGP> Microbe alien lifeforms based on Au digestion?
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[18:02] <rogerponts> hi anyone knows a quality-price ratio camera to put onboard a HAB payload ?
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[18:06] <LeoBodnar> eroomde Laurenceb I get better snr decoding threshold when using square waves instead of sinewaves.
[18:07] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if rounding errors marginally deteriorate the result in case of using sines
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[18:08] Action: G0TDJ_Steve has his fingers crossed for LeoBodnar
[18:10] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[18:10] <LeoBodnar> Libya is not the best place for a little party balloon to be :)
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[18:10] <DL1SGP> even if he landed there he would not be giving much of entertainment to kids
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[18:13] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: what do you mean by using square waves?
[18:13] <adamgreig> for which part of the process?
[18:13] <adamgreig> square waves take up more bandwidth so it stands to reason that if you are transmitting them 'perfectly' you will see a better SNR, all else being equal
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[18:14] <LeoBodnar> using square waves as the set of base functions when performing spectral analysis
[18:14] <adamgreig> at each of the frequencies of interest?
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> convolution?
[18:15] <LeoBodnar> yes, they seem to be orthogonal just like sines
[18:15] <adamgreig> well yea I mean spectral analysis is the same kind of thing as convolving with a periodic function at each frequency of interest and noting the result
[18:15] <LeoBodnar> Not sure why they work better
[18:15] <adamgreig> yea, square ways will be orthogonal in the same way
[18:15] <adamgreig> because they are just an infinite sum of sine waves at odd harmonics
[18:15] <LeoBodnar> ANyway I have tried them for a laugh and they give +1dB improvement
[18:16] <adamgreig> but I'm not clear how you're using them -- just on the receive processing side?
[18:16] <adamgreig> like, to decode the same signal?
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> yes
[18:16] <adamgreig> curious
[18:16] <adamgreig> I guess they will give a higher convolution score anyway
[18:16] <adamgreig> if in sync
[18:17] <adamgreig> just because they're always high valued
[18:17] <LeoBodnar> <My theory is that convolution process adds extra noise due to multiplication errors while square waves result in just summing
[18:17] <adamgreig> but they might mess up quicker when out of phase
[18:17] <adamgreig> what data types are you using?
[18:17] <LeoBodnar> I can't get my head around of what spectral density would actually reflect. Main signal + harmonics?
[18:17] <adamgreig> I'd expect quantisation noise but that's probably not going to be a big thing for you
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[18:18] <LeoBodnar> double and long ints
[18:18] <adamgreig> hum. wouldn't have expected rounding errors to give that much of a hit...
[18:18] <LeoBodnar> We are talking -21dB snr
[18:18] <adamgreig> yea
[18:18] <adamgreig> depends how you're using the long ints I guess
[18:18] <LeoBodnar> my input file is 32 bit integers
[18:18] <LeoBodnar> *16 bit ints
[18:18] <LeoBodnar> .wav
[18:19] <adamgreig> so are you finding the PSD by convolving with lots of freqs?
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[18:19] <adamgreig> like, generate an LO at each of several frequencies, convolving with the input, then you plot a convolution sum against frequency?
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> No, just with the ones centred around DomEx bins
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> 18 in total
[18:19] <adamgreig> right
[18:20] <adamgreig> domex only transmits one freq at a time, right?
[18:20] <adamgreig> curious
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> Yes, MFSK
[18:21] <adamgreig> I'm pretty sure in theory the sine wave should give the better result, but as you say it's entirely possible an implementation thing like limited precision multiplication is somehow making squares perform better
[18:21] <adamgreig> a lot of things do use square waves as LOs
[18:21] <adamgreig> for DSP purposes
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> And much faster if implemented on MCU. Just surprised...
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[18:28] <adamgreig> you've got me checking some dsp notes now :P
[18:28] <adamgreig> you can imagine how, when doing the convolution, the square wave gives a higher sum output, because even when the sine wave is small-and-positive the square is still big-and-positive
[18:28] <adamgreig> and 1.0 * 0.1 is obviously bigger than 0.1 * 0.1, for aligned square/sine waves respectively
[18:29] <adamgreig> but I don't think it immediately follows that you expect better real performance in noise
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[18:32] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: in what sense is it 1dB better?
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> I get error-free decoding with 1dB lower signal using square waves
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[18:51] <Steve_2e0vet> which NEMA sentence has the most info for the telemtry
[18:52] <x-f> GGA
[18:53] <Steve_2e0vet> x-f, why do i always ask then go and work it out lol
[18:54] <x-f> it
[18:54] <x-f> it's normal, everybody does that :)
[18:54] Nick change: ghoti -> constant
[18:55] Nick change: constant -> ghoti
[18:55] <DL1SGP> http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=0002fadf-4361-499e-99ae-1424fb2c5219
[18:55] <x-f> DL1SGP, hi
[18:55] <DL1SGP> hi x-f nice to see you again
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[18:56] <x-f> yesterday you said you were going to your radio club's meeting?
[18:56] <DL1SGP> I was there :)
[18:56] <x-f> could you tell me, what do you do in your club?
[18:57] <x-f> there are no radio clubs in my country and a fello ham wants to start one
[18:57] <x-f> fellow*
[18:58] <DL1SGP> Sure, there are various activities, ARDF Foot-Hunts which are carried out about 4 times the year, Contest operations from the Contest Location, Field-Day activities and each month we have a meeting to have a bit of social exchange and discuss what is going on
[18:58] <DL1SGP> also there are "special" project like our HAB project of 2012, and as it looks liek there will be another start in 2014
[18:59] <DL1SGP> so basically the planning for such events is partially conducted through the club meetings
[18:59] <DL1SGP> and I guess for most the biggest benefit of a meeting compared to activity on Repeaters / Networks is to get the chance of running some fine Eyeball-QSO
[19:00] <DL1SGP> We also have a monthly technical meeting / workshop and a full-weekend technical workshop which is held annually
[19:01] <x-f> sounds like you have a lots of members there
[19:02] <DL1SGP> we do :)
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> Ha! "According to Knapp, the cluster balloon was never able to achieve a stable float altitude and developed a severe yo-yo effect --- rapid descents with the aircraft hitting the surface of the water, followed by rapid ascents to altitudes as high as 21,000 feet or more."
[19:02] <DL1SGP> but it is not the number of members that defines the success
[19:02] <adamgreig> haha that sounds terrifying to be riding
[19:02] <x-f> sure
[19:02] <adamgreig> weird effect though
[19:02] <DL1SGP> that must have been quite a rollercoaster
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> I have seen this before
[19:03] <x-f> thanks a lot, DL1SGP
[19:03] <adamgreig> pilot induced oscillation? :P
[19:03] <DL1SGP> you are most welcome x-f and good luck for starting a club
[19:03] <DL1SGP> never hesitate contacting me with further questions
[19:03] <x-f> ok, will do :)
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> B-11 was doing it on ascent
[19:04] <DL1SGP> he came down... on way down lost the water on his balloons as it got warmer, then went up again to collect new water... 300something balloons have quite a surface
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[19:07] <DL1SGP> "he says Trappe is uncertain if he is on the ground or possibly in trees," when he started searching for his lamp, he realized what he had forgotten home?
[19:08] <DL1SGP> brb
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[19:26] <Steve_2e0vet> i might be wording this wrong, but is there a way to read gps data in NEMA format as opposed to UBLOX format
[19:26] <Steve_2e0vet> i.e plain text
[19:30] <fsphil> that's like asking if there's a way to look up words by reading a dictionary :)
[19:30] <fsphil> nmea format is the most common way gps modules are read
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[19:31] <fsphil> look for GPGGA strings, they'll contain the time, position and altitude
[19:31] <fsphil> it's not too difficult reading and decoding these lines
[19:31] <fsphil> they're just strings
[19:32] <fsphil> there's a handy reference here: http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/
[19:32] <nats`> enkidu when the arm doesn't burn the DC/DC don't start
[19:32] <nats`> I think that's my biggest fail ever
[19:34] <iain_G4SGX> Hi Y'all, can anyone tell me roughly what the MAX current the MAX5 & 7Q will draw at 2V ? Probably when trying to lock ? Been told it may be more than the datasheet suggests.
[19:34] <iain_G4SGX> *MAX6
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[19:35] <Steve_2e0vet> fsphil, I seem to be getting a load of junk, not plain NEMA strings
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[19:36] Nick change: Willdude123_ -> Willdude123
[19:37] <Steve_2e0vet> http://imgur.com/b9uUW5R
[19:37] <enkidu> nats`, have you used its output as a key?
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[19:37] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: if you're getting junk that suggests something is setup wrong, with NMEA you should just see text strings
[19:38] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, this is what i mean by junk http://imgur.com/b9uUW5R
[19:38] <chalcy0n> Let me thank all of you who helped me tracking jnoss1 today!
[19:38] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: check your serial port settings (I think its 9600, 8n1 by default for the ublox)
[19:41] <chalcy0n> It was my first flight and everything went far beyond my expectation
[19:41] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, yes you are correct its 8,n,1
[19:41] <Willdude123> Today I have learned the meaning of the term "Slut Drop", unfortunately it is very difficult to use in everyday conversations
[19:43] <chalcy0n> lol
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[19:47] <LeoBodnar> You have just did
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[19:48] <DL1SGP> chalcy0n: congrats on the flight
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX: about 120mA max or so
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> Right after startup then it drops
[19:52] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> Yo Laurenceb
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[19:53] <chalcy0n> DL1SGP: thanks!
[19:55] <DL1SGP> heard your bird fine here :) hope the video produced by the FlyCam Eco has come out as you wanted it
[19:55] <Steve_2e0vet> This problem http://imgur.com/b9uUW5R is on a Pi if it makes any difference
[19:55] Action: Willdude123 slut drops on LeoBodnar
[19:55] <Willdude123> Jk
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Will your mum says stop behaving like 9 year old.
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[19:57] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: how are you connected to the pi and what's getting the data from the gps
[19:58] <enkidu> how feels our ear at haifa?
[19:58] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, i am connectting via VNC... argh..... a python script is getting the data
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: Have you read about Trappe's problem?
[19:59] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: it might be a case of checking the settings in the python script
[19:59] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, what do you mean?
[19:59] <DL1SGP> http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=0002fadf-4361-499e-99ae-1424fb2c5219
[19:59] <mfa298> although I'm slightly confused by the PuTTYPuTTY lines in there as it doesn't sound like you're using putty in the setup
[19:59] <Steve_2e0vet> i think VNC has something to do with the serial port as well
[20:00] <Steve_2e0vet> i am using putty (vnc0 to access it
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[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:00] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, it looks like serial corruption of some sort
[20:00] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Lunar_Lander
[20:01] <mfa298> I'm not exactly sure how putty would be interacting with vnc then. As far as I know they're totally seperate things
[20:01] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, sorry i used VNC as a generic term, I am using putty to access the pi
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: no ?
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> "According to Knapp, the cluster balloon was never able to achieve a stable float altitude and developed a severe yo-yo effect --- rapid descents with the aircraft hitting the surface of the water, followed by rapid ascents to altitudes as high as 21,000 feet or more."
[20:02] <iain_G4SGX> Tnx LeoBodnar. now to look for a dc-dc converter, 1.5V to 2V. Got my RFM42 boards from Poland today, they use a Si4032, £2.50, bargain
[20:02] <mfa298> vnc is a specific protocol.
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> Sounds familiar?
[20:02] <mfa298> right if it's putty ssh'ed into the pi then that makes a bit more sense for those errors
[20:02] <Steve_2e0vet> yeah i know, old habits and all that
[20:02] <mfa298> I've seen similar things when putty get's characters it doesn't understand
[20:03] <Steve_2e0vet> i could always VNC in lol
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> yup
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[20:03] <Laurenceb_> i thought that might happen
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> seemed like it was an issue from the data
[20:04] <mfa298> my guesses would be that either the python script isn't opening the port properly, or that something else is also trying to access the serial port
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> very interesting stuff
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> I have been wondering for weeks about lack of reference to these phenomena in balloonist media. ANd here we go...
[20:04] <Steve_2e0vet> time to google i think
[20:05] <mfa298> have you stopped the kernel logging to the serial port and the getty process (I might have asked this before)
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: i was thinking about dominoex decoding
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> Me too :)
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> i thought i had a way to do it using viterbi over the entire packet
[20:05] <Steve_2e0vet> i think i have stopped kernal logging, not sure about the getty process
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> then i realised there is extra info from the location where the varicode decoder fails
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> I have tried using square waves instead of sines and got extra 1dB SNR improvement
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> if the varicode decoder fails at a given location, its likely that the error is there
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> im not sure how you model this accuratly :-S
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> Yep, keep strong positives intact
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> i think your 3 character thing is actually close to optimal
[20:06] <mfa298> for getty you need to remove the line that references ttyAMA0 in /etc/inittab
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> if it was combined with reed solomon for the outer code
[20:07] <Upu> try THOR
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> i guess this problem is why inner/outer coding techniques are used
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> I think if middles "sags" the strong outside chars help to pull a good match on the middle one
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> i think just keeping the 3 character thing and swapping the checksum to a reed solomon checksum will be close to optimal
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[20:07] <mfa298> and for the kernel logging you need to edit /boot/cmdline.txt and remove "console=ttyAMA0,115200 kgdboc=ttyAMA0,115200" from the line
[20:08] <mfa298> you'll need to reboot for those to take affect
[20:08] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, defo done the logging
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> At the moment I get 5dB better SNR than fldigi
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> nice
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> so what is that overall in the 2kHz bandwidth scale thingy?
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> I have attempted to track phase transitions across frequency changeovers but it does not work well.
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> i was going to ask about that
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> is the silabs phase transition unstable?
[20:11] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, hadnt done the "getty"
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> like a random phase jump betwen characters?
[20:11] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, so i will give it another whirl soon
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> Mickey Mouse fldigi thingy says -17dB
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> wow
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> That's the last valid fldigi decode level
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> so -22dB
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> thats nuts
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> only 6dB worse than WSPR
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> Let me upload the file that I decode.
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> can habhub support reed-solomon checksums?>
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[20:16] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/DomEX16.wav this is the one I am getting valid decodes from
[20:16] <DL7AD> i can only hear NOISE!
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah nothing in fldigi here
[20:18] <nats`> enkidu I got it work crappy boost cap I destroyed it
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> Modem centreline is 1000Hz
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> i see maybe some noise concentration in the waterfall
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah lol
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> i didnt know where to tune
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> the noise floor is up a little there
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> Decoder finds it itself :D
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> thats all i could say
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> reed-solomon should buy a couple more dB or so
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> Yeah
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> this is like an inner and outer code with no extra overhead over the current scheme
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> genius
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> as long as habhub can be made to support rs checksum
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> It needs a new client push :\
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> ah yeah as its done in dl-fldigi
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> annoying
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> on the +ive side, the rs checksum code is there already for ssdv
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> Maybe add rc chksum as separate field?
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> rs
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> i guess - makes the packet longer
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> need to talk to fsphil i suppose?
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> yes, we need some sort of "steering committee"
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> if the payload config was made to support normal or rs checksum
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> And a carrot with stick
[20:26] <iain_G4SGX> If it works like it sounds like it is Leo, could cause a very big stir in the radio world.. May change the digi mode scene completely, why bother with JT65, PSK etc
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> I would think they can be told apart automatically
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> i guess
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: i guess you could experiment with adding rs
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[20:28] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX: it's a bit of toying around and centred around pre-existing knowledge of the information in the packet (it won't work very well with just a bitstream )
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> But for things like APRS and other packet comms this is just the ticket
[20:29] <iain_G4SGX> A ha, gotcha
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> www.eccpage.com/rs.c
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> <iain_G4SGX> it scans for packet header then uses redundant info in the varicode as an inner code
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> topic of discussion atm is adding an outer code in place of the "dumb" checksum
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[20:32] <Laurenceb_> the cool thing is it can take regular dominoex
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> encoding RS is like 20 lines
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6S0dNBEIsxw/TjfQsVGmddI/AAAAAAAABMM/SPZQbYrGmTo/s1600/alien-breakfast.jpg
[20:34] <iain_G4SGX> Very interesting, data comms was in its infancy when I did it at uni, wish I was 18 now.. sigh..:)
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> lol
[20:35] <iain_G4SGX> I dont even think we used FFT much as it took so much computing power
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[20:36] <LeoBodnar> SFT :)
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> Punchcards and stuff
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> Mainframe days Aaaaah
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[20:48] <Laurenceb_> rs can tolerate double the error rate if it knows where the errors are
[20:48] <iain_G4SGX> I'm just loving getting back into programming, used to program assembler on contracts or a while, mostly rs232 stuff on PICS. I have just the right compulsive obsessive disorder to make a good coder! lol
[20:49] <fsphil> yea, in dl-fldigi I pass in data on missing bytes
[20:49] <fsphil> it quite often fixes more than 16 bytes in packets
[20:50] <enkidu> nats`: reverse polarity?
[20:50] <G3JNB> Good evenin gfrom UK Gentlemen...am new to this and am setting up for RTTY reception of NG0X signals..I hope!!
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> should be possible to pass info on poor dominoex decode confidence
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[20:52] <G3JNB> Ian G4sgx..are you QRV from teh baloon sigs??>
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[20:54] <fsphil> is it still transmitting?
[20:54] <G3JNB> I have only just got info from teh Southgate Club site ..so do not know if TXing beacon...the map has stopped over StPieere>>
[20:55] <G3JNB> Anybody got more info on teh ballon??
[20:56] <adamgreig> NG0X is down I understand?
[20:56] <adamgreig> it was www.clusterballoon.com
[20:56] <fsphil> he's landed in newfoundland, from the sounds of it he's not going back up again
[20:56] <adamgreig> but had to land early
[20:56] <fsphil> not for a while anyway
[20:56] <fsphil> I suspect he'll try again
[20:56] <adamgreig> can't be a cheap attempt
[20:57] <Willdude123> Can someone help me with a physics problem? Been muted on ##physics for not knowing a load of complicated stuff
[20:57] <G3JNB> Ah!! Sorry to hear that..his pic is in todays paper. Looks very iffy!! OK ..tnx so much. Will watch out for more info.GN et 73>>
[20:58] <fsphil> yea it's a bit mad :)
[20:58] <adamgreig> Willdude123: you can but ask
[20:58] <adamgreig> G3JNB: iffy indeed!
[20:58] <Willdude123> x=8-6t+t^2, how do I figure out the object's velocity as a function of time?
[20:58] <Willdude123> x being position
[20:58] <Willdude123> t being time
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: which dominoex mode are you using?
[20:59] <adamgreig> do you know differentiate
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[20:59] <Willdude123> adamgreig, kinda
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> DomEX 16
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> ok
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> trying to work out shannon limit...
[20:59] <bertrik> Willdude123: v =dx/dt = -6 + 2t
[21:00] <Willdude123> So -6 is the change in x and 2t is the change in time?
[21:00] <Willdude123> But it's -6t
[21:00] <Willdude123> Or does it cancel out
[21:01] <adamgreig> don't think about it like that too hard
[21:01] <adamgreig> you just need to differentiate it
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> ok wtf
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> you are 4dB over the shannon limit
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> Using square waves allows to stay with integer arithmetic throughout
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> i must have screwed something up
[21:02] <adamgreig> working out signal levels is really tricky to get right
[21:02] <Willdude123> adamgreig, but how did we get that answer?
[21:03] <adamgreig> Willdude123: by differentiating. it's a process
[21:03] <adamgreig> d/dx (x) = v
[21:03] <adamgreig> d/dx (8) = 0
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> i suspect perhaps fldigi is inaccurate
[21:03] <adamgreig> uhm
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> lets try this again...
[21:03] <adamgreig> sorry, d/dt, lol
[21:03] <adamgreig> d/dt (x) is the rate of change of x with respect to time, so the velocity
[21:03] <adamgreig> d/dt (8) is zero because 8 doesn't change with time
[21:03] <adamgreig> d/dt (-6t) is -6 because it changes by -6 every time t changes by 1
[21:04] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[21:04] <adamgreig> d/dt (t²) is 2t for the same reason (there's a process - you multiply by the power then decrement it)
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> Aliens use (shannon - 1dB) to RC saucers
[21:04] <adamgreig> so overall you get v = 0 -6 +2t
[21:04] <Willdude123> I'll figure it out
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[21:04] <Willdude123> So the acceleration is 8-6t+t^2?
[21:05] <Willdude123> Because you're adding on the square of time every time.
[21:05] <adamgreig> uhm no
[21:05] <adamgreig> acceleration is differentiate again
[21:05] <adamgreig> now -6 goes to zero as well (it doesn't change with time) and +2t goes to 2 (as before)
[21:06] <Willdude123> +2t? How?
[21:06] <Willdude123> This is sooo confusing
[21:06] <adamgreig> the +2t from velocity
[21:06] <adamgreig> you differentiate velocity to get acceleration
[21:06] <Willdude123> OK
[21:07] <Willdude123> Then what?
[21:07] <Willdude123> So is it just a(t)=2?
[21:07] <adamgreig> yes
[21:07] <Willdude123> OK. I don't fully understand that but I get the jist of it
[21:08] <Willdude123> *gist
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[21:10] <mfa298> the important thing to understand is how distance, velocity, accelaration are linked.
[21:10] <mfa298> and then that differentiation / integration gives you the maths to go from one to the other
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: how many characters do you allow?
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> alphabet + numbers + "," + "#" ?
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> i think this is where i went wrong - effective number of bits is less
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> hexadecimals for the checksum but they can be disabled until we hit "*"
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> "-" "."
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> For the time being I assume no alphas in the data fields
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[21:14] <Laurenceb_> seems veyr close to shannon limit to me, crazy
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> dB or two away
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> until we arrive at checksum "*" and then allow hexadecimals
[21:14] <Steve_2e0vet> any uk balloons going up tomorrow?
[21:14] <adamgreig> seems surprising it would be that close to shannon
[21:14] <adamgreig> without serious error coding
[21:15] <adamgreig> but then shannon only applies in some conditions anyway
[21:15] <adamgreig> and if you have foreknowledge of the data..
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> It is easy to fall into the trap of optimising the decoder to decode specific set of test files
[21:15] <adamgreig> right
[21:15] <adamgreig> it's very easy to pick out an entirely known sentence from noise ;)
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> lol yes
[21:16] <adamgreig> but obviously if what you're transmitting _does_ have high redundancy you should take advantage
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[21:24] <Laurenceb_> im thinking fldigi must be inaccurate
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> its too close
[21:24] <adamgreig> that's also quite possible
[21:24] <adamgreig> measuring snr is really annoying
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> but it looks likely to be within a few dB
[21:24] <adamgreig> Eb/N0 is generally better or at least more precisely defined
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> i doubt its less than 2
[21:25] <adamgreig> produce the signal in zero noise, measure the total energy content, divide by the total number of information bits transferred (i.e. minus the bits you knew about)
[21:25] <adamgreig> then create white noise of a known power, which is relatively easy, and add it
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> thing is i cant get a snr out of fldigi at all
[21:25] <adamgreig> then try decoding
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> theres no singla in there
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> this is very doable
[21:26] <adamgreig> however I tried doing that a fair bit
[21:26] <adamgreig> and I still found it really hard to get figures that agreed with theory
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> a quick matlab/octave script should work fine
[21:27] <adamgreig> I was trying to decode in silly ways though so didn't help
[21:27] <adamgreig> also fsk is annoying
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> ill try it now and shove the file somewhere
[21:27] <adamgreig> bpsk is much nicer. much better defined bandwidth
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> YOu can record clean Domex16 sound into Audacity, normalise it and take it from tehre
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Using TX from fldigi
[21:29] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: so what SNR do you think you're getting right now?
[21:29] <adamgreig> -22?
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Then add a white noise track and mix them down
[21:29] <adamgreig> hmm
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[21:30] <adamgreig> in theory that might work if you knew all the numbers but I'm not sure you could still accurately get the expected Eb from the signal
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> this may take some time...
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> but ill give you a benchmarking wav file in a bit...
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> Cool, just stick $$B-11, in the header there
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:31] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: so you should be able to decode any arbitrary string containing just 0-9 and - and . and ,?
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> ill add guassian noise in octave
[21:32] <LeoBodnar> yes adamgreig
[21:32] <adamgreig> that's the whole character set?
[21:32] <adamgreig> 0-9 - , .
[21:32] <adamgreig> ?
[21:32] <LeoBodnar> But needs solid header to lock on to
[21:32] <adamgreig> and it requires a $$B-11 header?
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> THis is how I am searching for modem frequency and header start
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[21:33] <adamgreig> all six digits of the header?
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> ill try -20dB
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> over the 4khz bandwidth
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> It worked with just $$ earlier but I did not check if it still locks on these silly SNR levels
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> now i have to avoid saturating it....
[21:34] <adamgreig> what domex baud are we on?
[21:34] <LeoBodnar> Domex 16
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> ok file coming up
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[21:38] <Laurenceb_> http://filebin.ca/uvI7v4ReIgh/gen_.wav
[21:38] <YU1TTN> good evening everyone
[21:38] <YU1TTN> is there any news about SP3OSJ?
[21:38] <YU1TTN> balloon
[21:38] <adamgreig> can you get dl-fldigi to only transmit domex until it has sent all the bits?
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> i didnt bother
[21:40] <adamgreig> then how do you know how much energy per bit?
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> i just scaled the amplitudes
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> try order of magnitude first
[21:41] <adamgreig> go on
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: can you save it in 16000 rate, I have it hard coded atm
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> oh
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> ok np
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> ill have to resample :-S
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[21:42] <Laurenceb_> do i have libsamplerate for octave...
[21:42] <adamgreig> audacity'l do it
[21:42] <adamgreig> or ffmpeg or something
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> yes i have it
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> just need to call resample correctly
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[21:44] <Laurenceb_> error: The impulse response H of the antialiasing filter is either specified or either designed with a Kaiser-windowed sinecard.
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> riiiggghhhttt
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[21:45] <Laurenceb_> http://filebin.ca/uvKREAiNiil/gen_.wav
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> ^does that load?
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> Yep, thanks. Nothing good so far, let me play with sync search algo
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> Maybe I have carved out sin/cos too early :D
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> im not 100% convinced myself, just playing with octave script
[21:50] <adamgreig> reading around the literature
[21:50] <adamgreig> people claim to get within 0.6dB of shannon on rayleigh fading channels with various techniques for nc m-fsk
[21:50] <adamgreig> oh, this one paper manages 0.15dB which is very impressive
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> think something is wrong with my code..
[21:50] <adamgreig> uses trellis coded modulators on the inside code
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> snr is too low
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> 0.15dB ? wow
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[21:53] <adamgreig> yea but I mean, take numbers with a grain of salt til you see exactly what was 0.15dB and what decodability means
[21:53] <adamgreig> you generally report this as the required Eb/N0 (or Es/N0) for a given Pb
[21:53] <adamgreig> or Ps..
[21:54] <adamgreig> this older paper on trellis coding for mfsk has a chart for 16 states that gets 10dB coding gain at 1E-5 Ps, but...
[21:54] <adamgreig> not clear how close to capacity that is
[21:55] <adamgreig> also that assumes the channel SNR is known
[21:55] <adamgreig> which probably isn't the case here
[21:55] <adamgreig> there's more literature on fsk than I expected
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[21:55] <Laurenceb_> http://filebin.ca/uvNQztaDGaX/gen_.wav
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> try that
[21:56] <adamgreig> I think you want to be more careful about working out what your snr is..
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> I am only referencing to fldigi, absolute value is very iffy
[21:57] <adamgreig> the other thing is working out what you really mean by "decodes at"
[21:57] <adamgreig> ideally what you want to do is have a very long string and count up bit errors
[21:57] <adamgreig> so you can actually work out the probability of bit error at a given SNR
[21:57] <adamgreig> then you can plot the probability of bit error for that SNR
[21:58] <adamgreig> it's not likely that you'll never have an error even when decoding short strings fine - probably just the Pe is like 10^-5 or something nice
[22:00] <adamgreig> but yea, in practice every time I've tried to build a Pe/SNR chart, I've never been fully convinced I'd got it right
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: what char set did you use? :)
[22:00] <adamgreig> it's very hard to be sure you've done the right thing and not missed something important somewhere
[22:00] <adamgreig> https://randomskk.net/u/simples_bayes_vs_matched.png
[22:01] <adamgreig> so you see my problem there
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[22:01] <adamgreig> theory tells me that a coherent decoder for FSK achieves the red line
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> just capitals
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> and commas
[22:01] <adamgreig> Laurenceb_: alphabetics aren't in it...
[22:01] <adamgreig> my very simple matched filters in blue way outperforms
[22:01] <adamgreig> and my theoretical filter in green isn't very good
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[22:01] <adamgreig> 22:32:26 adamgreig> 0-9 - , .
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[22:02] <LeoBodnar> Ah, I don't have full alphabet coded in just yet, only [0-9.,-*]
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> ok ill retry, after some food...
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> OK :)
[22:03] <DL1SGP> have a nice meal Laurenceb_
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> adamgreig: i used power spectrum to check it was sane
[22:04] <adamgreig> still easy to be a handful of dB off
[22:04] <adamgreig> given you want Es/N0 or Eb/N0, the peak on the power spectrum will.. underreport?
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> i gues integrated over the dominoex spectrum
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> then over the rest of the spectrum
[22:05] <adamgreig> that gives you total energy _maybe_ in the signal
[22:05] <adamgreig> but you still need to divide by number of information bits transferred
[22:06] <adamgreig> the restricted alphabet confuses things too
[22:06] <adamgreig> 3.8 bits per 'byte'
[22:06] <adamgreig> or per character anyway
[22:06] <adamgreig> so if you know how long your message is you can work out the number of info bits
[22:06] <adamgreig> but not if you didn't stop the recording as soon as it went into idling
[22:07] <adamgreig> because then there's more energy but it's not doing anything
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[22:12] <adamgreig> it would be good to set up something that can do the dl-fldigi style decoding, leo's style of decoding at the same time, then plot the Pb vs Eb/N0 for a range of SNRs alongside a reference from theory and see how it all stacks up
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[22:15] <Laurenceb_> http://filebin.ca/uvTEMOq5lX3/gen_.wav
[22:16] <nats`> someone know coocox for stm32 ?
[22:16] <nats`> it's a free IDE ?
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[22:16] <adamgreig> also there's this confusing issue of secondary channel on domex
[22:16] <adamgreig> hams do not design their data modes to be readily amenable to analysis, do they..
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> lol I have just started programming capital chars in I can see SU and LEO, let me go back now to digits only
[22:19] <adamgreig> if you add more characters do you expect performance to go down?
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah you would
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> i didnt realise this
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> this is going to put it further away from shannon
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, ultimate telemetry string is a single bit :D
[22:22] <DL7AD> does anybody know how to setup an WebSDR?
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> so does that decode ok?
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[22:27] <LeoBodnar> HOld on, I have messed up my decoder with extra chars
[22:27] <adamgreig> version control :P
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> adamggreig: i guess you can apply Parsevals theorem fairly accuratly
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> Version control what version control lol
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> Got this so far : modem centre 989Hz $$B-11,1123,453.53335934,,.3,12,4518573,748,5328.74,8,000
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> sounds about right
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> i forgot what i typed lol
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[22:30] <LeoBodnar> Maybe cut out too early as I only had 50 chars loop
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> lets see what fldigi says
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> $$B-11,1234,456,12335.34,123,12,45
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> not quite right
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> let me tweak it l;ol
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> I might try to restore sinewaves convolution
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> that signal was at only -10dB over a 2.5kHz reference bandwidth
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> :-/
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> using Parsevals theorem
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> wait no i might have messed it up
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> this is _not_ simple
[22:35] <adamgreig> yea
[22:35] <adamgreig> I may have mentioned something about it being trickier than meets the eye :P
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> sinewaves are better
[22:38] <LeoBodnar> $$B-11,1234,456,21335.34,,.3,12,45
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[22:38] <Laurenceb_> not bad
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> ill write a proper script for this
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> Can you get a reference file that fldigi decodes without errors and then make progressively noisier with at 1dB steps?
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> *reference = noisiest that fldigi still decodes correctly
[22:40] <adamgreig> "without errors" is such a nebulous concept
[22:40] <adamgreig> ditto "correctly"
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> i could try that yes
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> im trying to get a reference noise level atm
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> 15.2dB over 4kHz
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> 14.97dB over 2.5KHz
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[22:43] <adamgreig> I might try generating the dominoex signal myself and cut dl-fldigi out of it
[22:43] <adamgreig> not quite as annoying as I thought
[22:43] <adamgreig> can't tell if it's meant to be coherent
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> thats for the last file i uploaded
[22:43] <adamgreig> yes, it is coherent
[22:43] <adamgreig> that's more annoying
[22:43] <adamgreig> got to change frequencies on the zero crossing
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> I think somebody has set up a streaming server demo at the conference?
[22:44] <mfa298> DL7AD: I think most websdr's are closed source so hard to do your own, but there's an early version of one being developed by someone here at http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio
[22:46] <DL7AD> mfa298 can you use it on windows?
[22:46] <adamgreig> oh I guess you can generate cpmfsk by just having an integrator in the sine phase
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> ok so i calculated shannon for the numbers only setup
[22:46] <LeoBodnar> Somebody is willing to stream audio from their UHF rig for us to monitor 24x7 what is the best way of doing this?
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> -20dB over the 2.5kHz
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> so its 5dB off
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> seems more sane
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> nice
[22:47] <adamgreig> more sane but I'm still not confident the figures are correct
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> B-11 extraction :P
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> me neither :P
[22:47] <mfa298> DL7AD: I think most are designed for linux
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> i gues applied Parsevals theorem
[22:47] <adamgreig> parseval should be ok but the spectrum starts transmitting the secondary as soon as it's done with the initial data
[22:48] <adamgreig> so you need to cut off before that happens
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah i windowed it
[22:48] <mfa298> sdr-radio has a server option that allows you to connect to it remotely (and I think multiple people can connect to it as well)
[22:48] <adamgreig> and even then you've got to get it the right way around with the 2pi and the dc level and so on
[22:48] <adamgreig> dc offset will muss up parseval
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> i skipped DC
[22:49] <adamgreig> skipped?
[22:49] <adamgreig> I'd be more tempted to sum up the energy in time
[22:49] <adamgreig> fewer chances to make mistakes
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:49] <adamgreig> you can do the same to the noise
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:49] <adamgreig> and that should get you a decent figure for signal energy and noise energy
[22:50] <adamgreig> then you count exactly how many bits of information you are transferring
[22:50] <adamgreig> and that gets you Eb/N0
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> that gives me similar numbers in octave
[22:50] <adamgreig> then you decode a long stream until you get errors
[22:50] <adamgreig> like keep decoding until 100 errors
[22:50] <adamgreig> and thus you work out the Pb
[22:50] <adamgreig> and then you change SNR and repeat
[22:50] <adamgreig> and then, boom, a pretty chart
[22:50] <adamgreig> just going and seeing if it "decodes perfectly" or not isn't really giving the whole story
[22:51] <adamgreig> annoyingly the design pages for dominoex seem to give no care to this at all
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah lol
[22:51] <adamgreig> and I'm not sure I'm convinced that using a bit of each nibble as a nibble sync gains you much info-theoretically. but it certainly makes designing a receiver easier which is something
[22:51] <adamgreig> but I mean, look at me talking all this big words, they did actually make a functional and popular and clearly very efficient data mode
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> im going to call it 5dB from shannon
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> im too lazy
[22:52] <adamgreig> just, clearly from the literature you can do way better even with non coherent fsk
[22:52] <adamgreig> whereas dominoex appears to require coherent fsk which grants you anotehr 2dB anyway
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> i guess ill try fldigi
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> atm fldigi decodes about 3% of characters
[23:00] <adamgreig> omg, just updated ipython notebook
[23:00] <adamgreig> now it's like a million times better looking
[23:00] <adamgreig> wow
[23:00] <adamgreig> this is amazing
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> wait i saturated the wav file
[23:00] Action: Laurenceb_ facepalm
[23:00] <mattbrejza> is there a tdlr version of above?
[23:01] <adamgreig> lol Laurenceb_
[23:01] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: generating reliable SNR samples for a decoder to try is hard
[23:01] <adamgreig> or, rather, knowing what the SNR is
[23:01] <mattbrejza> oh right
[23:01] <adamgreig> or maybe it is - or at least no one has done it properly
[23:01] <mattbrejza> modulation scheme?
[23:01] <adamgreig> dominoex
[23:01] <mattbrejza> oh i guess the other thing is that you want a nice filtered waveform rather than what i do for ber
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> about 30% decode
[23:02] <adamgreig> which is to say, a combination of cpmfsk and a nibble based varicode and god knows what else
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:02] <mattbrejza> matlab can do it by giving a waveform and a target snr
[23:02] Action: mattbrejza hides
[23:02] <adamgreig> ok I'm making up somethign to try and generate cpmfsk
[23:02] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: yea
[23:02] <adamgreig> I know
[23:02] <adamgreig> I have checked out matlab's source for that
[23:02] <adamgreig> it's fairly legit
[23:02] <adamgreig> but you _still_ have to be super careful about what you mean by SNR
[23:02] <adamgreig> like Eb and Es
[23:03] <adamgreig> my earlier attempts were based in part on how matlab does it
[23:03] <mattbrejza> do SNR then convert to Eb/N0 when you need to - the only fail free way reallu
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> ok, 6dB up and fldigi decodes
[23:03] <adamgreig> what does SNR mean if not Eb/N0?
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[23:04] <adamgreig> I think start at Eb/N0 and then plot Eb/N0 against Pb
[23:04] <mattbrejza> Eb/N0 takes into account coding and modulation
[23:05] <adamgreig> right
[23:05] <adamgreig> which is what we want here
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> 2.5dB up
[23:05] <adamgreig> given as we're trying to see how good this demodulator is
[23:05] <mattbrejza> so just ignore that domex is sending 4 bits at once
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> fldigi decoding ok
[23:05] <mattbrejza> or whatever it is
[23:05] <adamgreig> well I can just make a signal from domex
[23:05] <adamgreig> add up total signal energy
[23:05] <adamgreig> and divide by number of effective transmitted bits
[23:05] <adamgreig> right?
[23:05] <mattbrejza> youre comparing flidigi to theory?
[23:05] <adamgreig> that would be nice one day
[23:05] <adamgreig> but no
[23:05] <adamgreig> just trying to get an Eb/N0 vs Pb curve for leo's thing
[23:06] <adamgreig> and also for fldigi I guess
[23:06] <adamgreig> I think working out the theoretical curve for dominoex would be entertaining at best
[23:06] <mattbrejza> Pb?
[23:06] <adamgreig> probability bit error
[23:06] <adamgreig> Pe?
[23:06] <adamgreig> sources vary
[23:06] <mattbrejza> so ber?
[23:06] <adamgreig> yea
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> fldigi is only about 2dB worse according to this analysis
[23:07] <mattbrejza> how are you handing 4 bits -> 18 tones?
[23:08] <mattbrejza> not sure if that effects Eb/N0 though
[23:08] <adamgreig> shouldn't affect Eb/N0
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[23:10] <Laurenceb_> this doesnt really seem brilliant
[23:10] <adamgreig> also these baud rates are so frustrating :P
[23:10] <adamgreig> 15.625 baud
[23:10] <adamgreig> honestly
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[23:12] <mattbrejza> is it what you get when you divide a sample rate of a soundcard or something like that?
[23:12] <adamgreig> yes
[23:12] <adamgreig> it is
[23:12] <adamgreig> 16000/1024
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> ok its hard to call this
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> but looks like fldigi is ~3dB worse than custom decoder
[23:13] <mattbrejza> this isnt a coherent/noncoherent difference?
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> dunno
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> im using fldigi generated sound
[23:14] <adamgreig> could be
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> im just adding the noise
[23:14] <adamgreig> domex is meant to be generated coherently
[23:14] <adamgreig> but I mean 3dB could be a lot of things
[23:15] <mattbrejza> ill be suprised if fldigi is coherent
[23:15] <adamgreig> it might be coherent generation
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[23:15] <adamgreig> I think leo was decoding coherently as he syncs on the header to within a handful of samples
[23:15] <adamgreig> using a correlation
[23:16] <mattbrejza> leo made a new decoder?
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> i thought by coherent you meant phase
[23:16] <adamgreig> I do mean phase
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> got you
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[23:29] <Hix> Bonsoir
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[23:48] <adamgreig> Laurenceb_: made cpfsk http://nbviewer.ipython.org/urls/randomskk.net/u/CPMFSK.ipynb
[23:48] <adamgreig> step 2, make it work for domex
[23:48] <adamgreig> turns out I've been making fsk wrong since forever
[23:48] <adamgreig> gotta do phase modulation with an accumulator in order to get coherent results
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> wow
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> what am i looking at??
[23:48] <adamgreig> uhm
[23:48] <adamgreig> just fsk
[23:48] <adamgreig> switches between 5 and 10Hz
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> web hosted python apps?
[23:49] <adamgreig> over 1s data, 400 samples
[23:49] <adamgreig> oh uhm
[23:49] <adamgreig> this is ipython notebook
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:49] <adamgreig> it's the best thing since ever
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> never heard of it
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> looks flashy
[23:49] <adamgreig> the code has all been run on my system
[23:49] <adamgreig> so there's this super nice interface for me
[23:49] <adamgreig> it's what ed used in his gps talk incidentally
[23:49] <adamgreig> sec..
[23:49] <adamgreig> so here's my editing interface
[23:50] <adamgreig> https://randomskk.net/u/ipynb_cpmfsk.png
[23:50] <adamgreig> and then when I save, it saves the results (including images etc) to a JSON file (the .ipynb)
[23:50] <adamgreig> so that json file contains everything - the code, the results
[23:50] <adamgreig> meanwhile that website ^^ nbviewer.ipython.org can load any ipynb URL and display it in pretty HTML
[23:50] <adamgreig> so they don't run the python code, but they can display the embedded images etc
[23:50] <adamgreig> which makes it super duper easy to share notebooks
[23:50] <adamgreig> and you can write latex in them
[23:51] <adamgreig> and plain text, and code, and have inline charts and figures and so forth
[23:51] <adamgreig> also the way it works is you run code in each cell
[23:51] <adamgreig> so you can update just small cells and run them, without rerunning earlier code, in the same context
[23:51] <adamgreig> which means you can make small changes to some bits and experiment without having to write and run a whole script
[23:51] <adamgreig> it's like the best possible combination of an interactive shell and a script
[23:52] <adamgreig> it's sooooo good.
[23:58] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[23:58] <WillTablet> Hi
[23:58] G0TDJ_ALT (~G0TDJ_Ste@canfixit.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:59] Hix (~Hix@78-105-50-72.zone3.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[23:59] <G0TDJ_ALT> Anyone still about?
[00:00] --- Sat Sep 14 2013