highaltitude.log.20130912

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[05:49] <jcoxon> morning all
[05:50] <jcoxon> for some reason despite me clearing quite a few of the flights on spacenear.us they continue to be there
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[06:13] <enkidu> they have life will
[06:14] <x-f> B's might classify as zombie flights, not sure about others
[06:15] <enkidu> SP3OSJ drowned for sure
[06:15] <enkidu> contact was lost however with it in range
[06:15] <enkidu> one in Warsaw was test flight
[06:15] <x-f> i still listen for it every now and then..
[06:16] <enkidu> I do too, but I hear only silence and intermodulations
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[06:25] <radim_OM2AMR_> morning to all, what's happend with Upu's shop ? :-) Vacation ?
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[06:29] <x-f> all sold out? :)
[06:29] <x-f> morning
[06:31] <radim_OM2AMR_> :-) maintenance
[06:31] <radim_OM2AMR_> although "all sold out" is good status also :-) at least for Anthony
[06:31] <eroomde> Upu is slightly out-of-action for a few days at the moment
[06:32] <eroomde> the poor bugger has had to have some eye surgery
[06:32] <x-f> :/
[06:33] <radim_OM2AMR_> oh&. that's sad, hope everything will be OK
[06:33] <eroomde> he's on for a short period at a time - can't spend too long looking at a screen
[06:34] <radim_OM2AMR_> ok Ed, I will wait, thanks for info
[06:34] <eroomde> np
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[06:41] <wb8elk> The manned trans-Atlantic cluster balloon project is inflating the balloons at the moment...launch in a few hours
[06:41] <wb8elk> 14.0956 MHz RTTY 110 baud NG0X will be transmitting shortly after launch
[06:41] <eroomde> good luck wb8elk
[06:42] <eroomde> are you timing it for a specific wind forecast or just hoping for the best?
[06:42] <wb8elk> Looks like he is using at least 150 helium tanks and hundreds of balloons
[06:42] <Darkside> wat
[06:42] <Darkside> wait, manned?
[06:42] <wb8elk> forecast is showing a trip towards Scotland...about 50 hours or so
[06:42] <wb8elk> yep manned.... www.clusterballoon.com
[06:43] <wb8elk> Jonathan Trappe is launching from Caribou, Maine
[06:43] <wb8elk> probably near sunrise
[06:43] <eroomde> Darkside: this is the chap Alain referenced in his talk
[06:43] <eroomde> who other people thought was mad
[06:44] <Darkside> yeah
[06:44] <Darkside> sounds like it
[06:44] <eroomde> to which there is probably a nugget of truth
[06:44] <Darkside> espcially with latex balloons
[06:44] <Darkside> i hope theres going to be a boat following him
[06:44] <wb8elk> APRS also onboard: KJ4GQV is the callsign for that.
[06:44] <wb8elk> His gondola is a boat
[06:44] <eroomde> i wonder if we can patch the feeds into space near.us
[06:45] <wb8elk> The RTTY signal will be coming from a transmitter I sent him...it is spacenear compatible.
[06:45] <Darkside> what power?
[06:45] <wb8elk> But would be great if you all can patch the APRS signal in until they go past the digipeaters on the Canadian coastline
[06:45] <Darkside> and what antenna will he be using
[06:45] <wb8elk> 1 watt every 10 mins
[06:46] <wb8elk> 00 10 20 30 40 50 minutes...two transmissions
[06:46] <wb8elk> every 10 mins
[06:46] <wb8elk> 110 baud ASCII RTTY 8N1
[06:46] <wb8elk> It's activated on Spacenear now.... NG0X is the payload
[06:46] <wb8elk> but hasn't started to transmit yet...probably in a few hours
[06:47] <wb8elk> He also has a SPOT shared page on his website and a Delorme InReach (Iridium modem)
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[06:48] <ramm25> hello
[06:48] <wb8elk> they are big latex balloons....about 6 feet in diameter...along with some plastic balloons
[06:48] <wb8elk> polyethylene balloons in the mix
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[06:52] <ramm25> when you are start next flight?
[06:52] <wb8elk> Darkside...here's a photo of the inflation going on right now: https://www.dropbox.com/s/98tmueq2esmkitn/Trappe_Inflation2_091113.jpg
[06:53] <eroomde> wow
[06:53] <Darkside> what the crap
[06:53] <wb8elk> And another showing the huge cluster of balloons being bundled together over the raft gondola: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qazr8kdm5c5shml/Trappe_Inflation1_091113.jpg
[06:53] <Darkside> why the hell didnt he just use a ZP
[06:54] <Darkside> would have been the same amount of gas
[06:54] <wb8elk> Baseball field filled with over 150 helium tanks or more
[06:54] <wb8elk> that's the difference...he's setting the record for a Cluster Balloon
[06:54] <Darkside> bah
[06:54] <Darkside> ok
[06:54] <Darkside> still
[06:54] <Darkside> dangerous
[06:54] <wb8elk> He says he has a lot of fine control this way
[06:55] <wb8elk> but yes...crossing the Atlantic with a tropical storm lurking two days behind him does seem risky
[06:55] <wb8elk> Hang on...I'll post the predicted flight path
[06:55] <ramm25> I work for Oil and Fat, is the operator of the installation of hydrogen production. I would also like to start something.
[06:56] <wb8elk> Here's the FindMeSpot share page for two of his SPOT trackers on the gondola: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0s4Q04gaaoV9KnJ0UMb7h5b90telngQjv
[06:56] <eroomde> ramm25: a balloon project?
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[06:57] <keydashwork> Mornin'
[06:58] <ramm25> yes, Balon project. but in my country I can not find like-minded people, I live in Ukraine.
[06:59] <eroomde> well, you've come to the right place
[06:59] <eroomde> and a balloon is a very achievable project on your own
[06:59] <eroomde> though you may want some help with the launch itself
[07:00] <ramm25> many times I ran the garbage bags with integrated LEDs
[07:01] <wb8elk> Here's the forecasted flight path for Jonathan's manned trans-Atlantic balloon: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ieg3ddizrxcc28/trappe_091213_1200z_Hysplit.gif
[07:01] <wb8elk> Looks like Scotland or Ireland in about 60 hours.
[07:06] <Darkside> hrm
[07:06] <Darkside> so how is he planning on releasing gas from the balloons
[07:06] <Darkside> so they don't burst
[07:07] <enkidu> Darkside: I am retty sure he'll just control altitude
[07:07] <enkidu> by releasing balloons
[07:08] <Darkside> hrmmm
[07:11] <enkidu> also B11 was heading slower than models predicted, so waybe it will show again over Europe. Maybe
[07:13] <keydashwork> how long have flown the b11?
[07:14] <enkidu> right now we have no contact but will try receiving when hysplit will say, its over mediterranean
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[07:18] <DL1SGP> Good Morning.
[07:24] <LeoBodnar> morning
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[07:29] <wb8elk> He plans to release balloons to descend and drop ballast to rise
[07:30] <wb8elk> probably fly between 5000 feet and 17000 feet
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[07:32] <wb8elk> Leo...how did you seal off your Qualatex 36 balloon for B11 and B12?...and also what size and type of wire did you use for the antenna and solar cell supports?
[07:32] <cuddykid> morning chaps
[07:33] <daveake> Leo ... is that your real name or is it short for Low Earth Orbit ? :-)
[07:33] <wb8elk> Was wondering if you used a heat sealer or just used the adhesive seal inside it or just tied it off?
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[07:34] <wb8elk> Those of you who can tune in 20 meters.... 14.0956 MHz. The 110 baud RTTY signal from the manned trans-Atlantic flight will probably start up around 1200 UTC every 10 mins
[07:34] <wb8elk> callsign will be NG0X
[07:35] <craag> is it ukhas standard rtty?
[07:36] <cuddykid> can the tracker be cleared down or is the consensus that B12/B11 should remain?
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[07:37] <daveake> Dunno but you can always filter for just your flight
[07:37] <cuddykid> yeah
[07:37] <cuddykid> how's the middle east daveake ? (I assume from twitter that is where you are)
[07:38] <daveake> Back in UK now
[07:38] <cuddykid> grim old uK
[07:38] <daveake> Off to Spain later
[07:38] <cuddykid> nice
[07:38] <gonzo__> a nice change from 44deg!
[07:39] <cuddykid> took one look at the weather and decided you need another holiday?!
[07:39] <gonzo__> reliable old tepid rain
[07:39] <daveake> Yeah a mere 27°C later I believe
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[07:39] <daveake> Both work
[07:39] <daveake> Well Spain is a jolly really
[07:40] <daveake> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/12/doomsday_box_result/
[07:40] <gonzo__> bugger another launch due and I didn't leave the station running. The downside of getting the mails in digest form
[07:40] <gonzo__> bet spain is really cheap at the mo
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> wb8elk: I have used heat sealer but I think it makes no difference
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> wb8elk: I use metal wire as antenna
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> *steel
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> lol daveake
[07:50] <Laurenceb_> what happened to this cluster balloon?
[07:52] <yo5pjb> wb8elk: around 4UTC I can tune on that freq and listen
[07:52] <yo5pjb> 16utc
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[07:56] <Laurenceb_> http://www.analog.com/en/rfif-components/rfif-transceivers/ad9361/products/product.html
[07:59] <HixWork> nice daveake! 10% off rockblock from the register link you posted
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[08:03] <wb8elk> Cluster balloon will probably launch around 1200 UTC...maybe earlier
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[08:07] <DL1SGP> thank you for the info wb8elk I will listen for it whenever it went up
[08:10] <UKRAINE> Hi!
[08:11] <DL1SGP> Hello UKRAINE
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[08:15] <HixWork> thinking about putting some big 'ol caps on a trackerboard to keep the almanac so you can reset without waiting ages for a lock, anyone done this?
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[08:15] <HixWork> (instead of a backup battery)
[08:17] <mfa298> I had wondered about that as a method for keeping the almanac (although didn't get further than thinking about it)
[08:18] <mfa298> you didn't just read the gps page on the rockblock site did you ?
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[08:20] <Steve_at_Work> any mathematicians here, what does || mean in the example http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[08:20] <mfa298> paralell probably
[08:21] <mikestir-work> yes. so shorthand for (R3*R1)/(R3+R1)
[08:21] <jonsowman> yeah, parallel
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[08:27] <gonzo__> why does it key between two voltages, rather than between zero and a voltage?
[08:27] <Steve_at_Work> mikestir-work: cannot relate that to the example. What would (R3 || R2) equate to
[08:27] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[08:28] <mikestir-work> Steve_at_Work: sorry it's R1 in the first occurence
[08:28] <mikestir-work> the product over sum formula will give you the parallel combination of two resistances
[08:28] <mikestir-work> so R3||R2 is just R3*R2/(R3+R2)
[08:29] <mikestir-work> || is electronics shorthand rather than a mathematical thing
[08:30] <HixWork> mfa298 yes :D though I had thought of that and an eeprom in thepast - just reminded me
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[08:30] <Steve_at_Work> ok thanks, i might try and write it so its friendly for non techies, after all thats what the guides are for. hope that hasnt opened a can of worms
[08:30] <keydashwork> spain at work
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[08:31] <PA3WEG> hi all
[08:31] <gonzo__> I just put a simple PD to the mod pin. So a 0-3.3V output results in a 0-few 100 mV keying line. Seems to work fine
[08:31] <PA3WEG> is HABE9 still on for today?
[08:33] <x-f> PA3WEG, it is, "around midday"
[08:33] <DL1SGP> Goedenmorgen PA3WEG have not heard anything contradictionary
[08:34] <mfa298> HixWork: similar, I'd thought od capacitor or diode setups previously to keep the batt pin powered and was reminded by that page.
[08:35] <PA3WEG> good, hoping to track later today
[08:35] <PA3WEG> FUNcube is sitting ready in its POD for launch, so a bit more time now....
[08:35] <PA3WEG> midday ISH ;) got it
[08:35] <DL1SGP> hehe yea I loved Delfi-C3
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[08:36] <PA3WEG> I still love it ;)
[08:37] <DL1SGP> will you use the equipment up on the tower of university for the tracking of Habe PA3WEG
[08:37] <mikestir-work> Steve_at_Work: the || notation is very common so it might be useful to define it rather than remove it
[08:37] <PA3WEG> not at the moment, but a similar setup on the QRL, only 15m above sea level
[08:37] <DL1SGP> ah :)
[08:38] <PA3WEG> but unobstructed view towards the UK
[08:38] <PA3WEG> tomorrow, the 3m dish is going back up at the TU Delft, that should be nice to track the balloon fox hunt this sunday
[08:38] <DL1SGP> sounds like a plan
[08:39] <PA3WEG> google english for those interested: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ballonvossenjacht.nl%2F
[08:39] <gonzo__> solid or mesh wouter?
[08:39] <PA1SDB> Why is publishing a TX frequency so difficult ? Where do I have to listen for HABE 9 ?
[08:40] <PA3WEG> its a mesh dish
[08:41] <x-f> PA1SDB, 434.650, it's on the mailing list
[08:42] <PA1SDB> x-f ok, tnx
[08:42] <x-f> np
[08:42] <DL1SGP> that hunt sounds fun Wouter
[08:43] <PA3WEG> its a yearly event, but this will be the first time I try ATV reception
[08:43] <PA3WEG> I did use the transponder before
[08:44] <DL1SGP> fingers crossed :)
[08:44] <PA3WEG> and offered my own transponder, but they do not want SSB, only FM transponders
[08:44] <gonzo__> it's linear so it is FM!
[08:45] <nats`> there is a mailing list ?!
[08:45] <gonzo__> is that a captive balloon, or free floating?
[08:46] <PA3WEG> mailing list for the balloon fox hunt? I do not think so
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[08:46] <nats`> no that was for x-f :)
[08:46] <DL1SGP> Guten Morgen Sven
[08:46] <nats`> for TX frequency to listen :)
[08:46] <Steve_at_Work> mikestir-work: agreed
[08:46] <gonzo__> see the front page of the UKHAS wiki site
[08:46] <PA3WEG> and no, they do not have a linear transponder. this is what I offered, but they do not want it.
[08:46] <x-f> nats`, http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
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[08:47] <gonzo__> PA3WEG, My argument is that a linear transponder IS fm. If you put fm in!
[08:47] <PA3WEG> yes, off course, but the other way around is not true ;)
[08:48] <gonzo__> is this eatv/txsponder in a free floating balloon?
[08:48] <DL7AD> im on the german autobahn with bad connection from provider
[08:48] <DL7AD> good morning to all
[08:48] <Darkside> PA3WEG: got a transponder design?
[08:48] <gonzo__> morning
[08:48] <Maxell> HABE on 434.650 MHz right?
[08:48] <Darkside> PA3WEG: i'd like to fly one in australia
[08:48] <cuddykid> Maxell: yeah
[08:48] <Maxell> hai DL7AD
[08:48] <PA3WEG> yes, it is launched by KNMI, the dutch meteo office
[08:48] <Darkside> PA3WEG: 2m in, 70cm out would be nice
[08:48] <cuddykid> launching around 12:30/1ish now
[08:48] <Maxell> cuddykid: RevSpace ready in a few mins.
[08:49] <DL1SGP> gute Heimfahrt Sven sei vorsichtig.
[08:49] <PA3WEG> Working on 2m in, 70 out
[08:49] <Darkside> PA3WEG: nic
[08:49] <Darkside> PA3WEG: we'll fly it :P
[08:49] <HixWork> mfa i think it would be a good idea especially for testing where interminable locktimes just make everything really slow
[08:49] <Darkside> we've flown 2m->70cm crossband FM repeaters
[08:49] <PA3WEG> sounds good to me ;)
[08:49] <Darkside> but a linear translator woudl be good
[08:49] <Darkside> what output power?
[08:50] <PA3WEG> the trouble is getting this legally done here in The Netherlands
[08:50] <Darkside> yeah
[08:50] <Darkside> harder in europe
[08:50] <Darkside> more users
[08:50] <Darkside> around hre, nobody cares
[08:50] <PA3WEG> not decided exactly, it goes into a satellite, so I'm bound by some constraints
[08:50] <Darkside> mm
[08:50] <Darkside> wont be much then
[08:50] <DL7AD> .
[08:50] <Darkside> our FM repeater had something like 1W output power
[08:51] <PA3WEG> well, 2Watts I can do at the moment
[08:51] <Darkside> but it'll suck a heap of current
[08:51] <PA3WEG> but that needs more batteries ;)
[08:51] <Darkside> as you'll need a veeeery linear amp
[08:51] <PA3WEG> yup....thats the problem
[08:51] <PA3WEG> but on SSB, you also need less signal
[08:52] <mfa298> HixWork: might also help with getting lock pre-launch, you could test using a decent power supply or spare batteries, and swap over just before launch and not lose the almanac.
[08:52] <Darkside> yeah
[08:52] <PA3WEG> so the output power is not a huge concern
[08:52] <Darkside> if we were to launch one here, we'd give at least 2 weeks notice or so
[08:52] <Darkside> and we'd get a pretty good turnout it hink
[08:52] <Darkside> last time we flew a FM repeater we had a few hundred contacts through it
[08:52] <HixWork> mfa298 it could only help couldn't it
[08:52] <Darkside> we'll just have to dissuare people from trying to put FM through the transponder
[08:53] <HixWork> just need to work out what to use
[08:53] <DL7AD> DL1SGP ja ;) mein vater fährt wieder. sonst könnt ich nicht schreiben ;)
[08:53] <Maxell> Darkside: wait, FM repeater and not use FM? whut?
[08:53] <PA3WEG> well, it would be really cool if you all start practising on the FUNcube-1 transponder
[08:53] <Darkside> Maxell: i mean for a linear transponder
[08:54] <Darkside> PA3WEG: i dont have the gear to work transponder sats
[08:54] <Maxell> Darkside: ah, and thats SSB right? Breaks the transmitter of you do SSB?
[08:55] <Darkside> Maxell: a linear transpodner is designed for DDB, yes
[08:55] <Darkside> SSB*
[08:55] <Darkside> putting FM through it uses up the output power
[08:55] <DL1SGP> DL7AD: du laesst wieder einen fahren, schon klar :D
[08:56] <Maxell> Darkside: ah
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[08:56] <Steve_at_Work> i think one of the calculations maybe wrong on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[08:56] <Steve_at_Work> I can get to the required result, but not using the values in the eqquation
[08:56] <Darkside> PA3WEG: anyway, working a transponder balloon will be easier than working a sat, as ther'll be less doppler
[08:56] <PA3WEG> @Maxell, it is possible to do FM, but you won't make friends ;)
[08:56] <Darkside> i'm pretty sure it'll be noticable though
[08:57] <PA3WEG> yes, thats for sure
[08:57] <PA3WEG> and you can surely listen to FUNcube
[08:57] <PA3WEG> mayby not "work" it
[08:57] <Darkside> yes
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[08:57] <Darkside> i will b e:-)
[08:57] <Darkside> though i dont have a tracking yagi setup
[08:57] <nats`> Darkside I'm working on a motorised mount :)
[08:58] <nats`> originally for an other project but I have spare boards :D
[08:58] <Darkside> oh, i could get the az/el rotator i need
[08:58] <Darkside> i just dont have anywhre to put it
[08:59] <nats`> I wonder how much cost a ready made one
[08:59] <DL1SGP> Darkside: how about you get it and I put it up??? :P *joke*
[08:59] <Darkside> a lot
[08:59] <Maxell> PA3WEG: why so? other people wont be able to make contacts off it?
[09:00] <nats`> Darkside not surprising :|
[09:01] <PA3WEG> yup, FM is wide, and uses a constant amount of power
[09:01] <PA3WEG> so it will fill up the pass band, where you could normally fit more signals in
[09:01] <PA3WEG> but my new design is software defined, and will probably have an FM channel as well
[09:01] <PA3WEG> with a decent level control ;)
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[09:08] <HixWork> this is a very cool idea "PP3" supercap "Battery"
[09:08] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/mr4deH
[09:12] <nats`> PA3WEG there are no technic to increase power efficiency and reduce BW of FM like for SSB and AM ?
[09:13] <PA3WEG> there are plenty of techniques, that can be used
[09:14] <PA3WEG> but in the end, the uplink stations have to do this
[09:14] <PA3WEG> A linear, bent pipe, transponder sends back what the users put in
[09:14] <nats`> maybe sily question but what means linear ?
[09:15] <PA3WEG> so if someone is really wide, he messes it up for others. AMSAT has developed some schemes to minimize these effects, but that is all still development
[09:15] <PA3WEG> Linear means that if you put in two signals, they will not mix or interfere with each other.
[09:15] <nats`> oky so finally USB/LSB are prefered for long range TX ?
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[09:15] <PA3WEG> definately
[09:15] <nats`> oky the opposite of a mixer
[09:15] <PA3WEG> HABs use RTTY, which is also received by SSB receivers
[09:16] <nats`> yep I so that with fldigi
[09:16] <nats`> saw
[09:16] <PA3WEG> correct
[09:16] <PA3WEG> but the way it works with generating these signals is slightly different, as they use an FM transmitter with two different tones. Lets not confuse you too much
[09:17] <nats`> and last question why broadcast radio use WFM where they could use SSB ?
[09:17] <HixWork> ping LeoBodnar
[09:17] <PA3WEG> because SSB has one big disadvantage: there are audible errors introduced
[09:17] <nats`> oky I'll read some doc on this subject
[09:17] <PA3WEG> it is good for speech, but not music
[09:17] <nats`> uhhmm you mean when the carrier is not well phased ?
[09:17] <PA3WEG> you could say it like that, yeah.
[09:18] <PA3WEG> in SSB you are creating a signal locally to mix the audio back
[09:18] <nats`> oky nice to answer :) thnks
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[09:18] <gonzo__> theoretically you could put broadcast quality over SSB, but the complexity/cost of the receiver would make it uneconomical
[09:18] <nats`> yep I know that but I though that you didn't need it for audio since phase drift is not important for hears
[09:19] <PA3WEG> this local signal is by definition not the original signal that was used at the transmitter, both in frequency and phase
[09:19] <PA3WEG> there are ways to do it, with phase locked SSB
[09:19] <PA3WEG> but like gonzo mentioned, really expensive
[09:19] <nats`> let me guess you catch a tiny carriere signal
[09:19] <nats`> and pll on it
[09:19] <PA3WEG> that's the idea
[09:20] <nats`> ok thanks time to read more :)
[09:20] <HixWork> is there any reason that people don't use something like a 5F supercap to power a tracker? They seem to be rated to -40°C
[09:20] <PA3WEG> and this carrier *could be* anywhere, so also in the audio
[09:20] <nats`> supercap don't work well
[09:20] <nats`> for one reason the discharge curve
[09:20] <nats`> cap discharge "lineraly" until they reach 0
[09:20] <enkidu> HixWork: not enough power, you would need 150F
[09:20] <gonzo__> supercaps are not good enough power/weight
[09:20] <nats`> so the problem is quickly you don't have enough V on your system
[09:21] <nats`> where a battery keep his voltage until the end
[09:21] <HixWork> ah, ok. Even for something with say 40mA draw?
[09:21] <gonzo__> I have some that I was going to play with for a cutdown supply though. Trickle charge from the flight batts
[09:21] <nats`> HixWork it's an often ask stuff
[09:21] <enkidu> anyways, battery dont like charging at freezing point
[09:21] <nats`> the problem is not the current in fact it's really the disharge curve
[09:21] <enkidu> maybe some low voltage upconverters would do
[09:22] <nats`> let me find you a good link I had on that
[09:22] <nats`> http://www.edaboard.com/thread66676.html
[09:22] <nats`> check the last post it gives an overview of why you can't really use capacitor in place of battery
[09:23] <gonzo__> I suspect, even a very badly affected(cold) battery is probably going to have more capacity than the equiv supercap
[09:23] <nats`> in fact gonzo__ you could use a cap if your volatge can accept voltage at low as 0.01V
[09:23] <nats`> :)
[09:24] <enkidu> gonzo__: not really. B12's battery acted as a regular cap
[09:25] <enkidu> lithium battery charged at positive temp and discharged at -20 celsius keeps 60% of charge but drops below 3.4V at 40%
[09:26] <enkidu> charging it however at negative temperature degrade it very fast
[09:26] <nats`> even for solid lithium ?
[09:26] <enkidu> for one week flight it is not an issue
[09:26] <nats`> I though that only liquid one was affected by freezing
[09:27] <enkidu> even solid electrolytes are affected
[09:27] <HixWork> E = CU2/2 explained it to me :D
[09:27] <enkidu> its because of reaction kinetic
[09:27] <nats`> ;)
[09:27] <nats`> enkidu I trust you I'll not search for an explaination I suck at physic :)
[09:28] <enkidu> it is actually chemistry
[09:28] <nats`> same as physic for me
[09:28] <enkidu> capacitors rely on physics. of course ESR rise in low temperature
[09:29] <enkidu> nats`: when ions have to move, it is chemistry
[09:29] <nats`> when I say same I mean I suck at both :)
[09:29] <enkidu> ^^
[09:30] <enkidu> maybe graphene capacitors will do better, but we have to wait
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[09:31] <nats`> just let find the superunity solution :D (joke inside for all the UFO/Alien/Gov fanatics)
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[09:43] <SpeedEvil> There is a better solution.
[09:43] <enkidu> nuclear battery?
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> At altitude, it's considerably easier to evacuate a small volume.
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> Maglev flywheel energy storage.
[09:44] <enkidu> =]
[09:44] <enkidu> rotary storage I constructed few years ago - nice
[09:44] Action: SpeedEvil is wishing maglev bearings was simpler.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> I just want a couple of small ones.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> That can support maybe a ton going at 30000RPM.
[09:46] Action: SpeedEvil goes back to pondering concrete vacuum vessels.
[09:46] <enkidu> heart stimulators are using betavoltaic batteries
[09:47] <nats`> and energy harvesting ?
[09:47] <enkidu> there are some commercial devices. Generally, it works by capturing beta rays (free electrones)
[09:48] <nats`> in home automation there are some which use the force of the button
[09:48] <nats`> like enocean
[09:48] <nats`> to transmit small rf packet
[09:48] <nats`> I don't know if it's possible for ballon to have such tiny transmitter
[09:50] <gonzo__> you would need a long arm
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[09:50] <gonzo__> how about harvesting free photons
[09:52] <enkidu> how about harvesting thermal rays reflected from earth?
[09:57] <Rebounder> how about harvesting antimatter?
[09:57] <enkidu> ^^
[09:57] <enkidu> btw I have seen nice project by Nokia - picopower harvester using RF
[09:58] <enkidu> in general there was tunable RL network able to receive energy from broadcast stations
[10:00] <nats`> enkidu that was what I though
[10:00] <nats`> having like a meshed antenna on the ballon itself
[10:00] <DL1SGP> Cluster-Balloon Transatlantic Project is now visible on APRS: http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKJ4GQV&timerange=172800&tail=3600 still Alt.: 0ft
[10:00] <nats`> and harvesting all energy from radiated broadcast
[10:02] <enkidu> wide spectrum RF chargers were reported to deliver over 1mW
[10:03] <Laurenceb> not bad
[10:03] <enkidu> yeah. enough for devices working in cycles
[10:03] <gonzo__> there was a guy who ran his shed lights from the local MW b'cast transmitter
[10:03] <gonzo__> he was almosy under the antennas thoyugh.
[10:04] <gonzo__> they tried to prosicute him for theft
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[10:04] <Maxell> DL1SGP: lulz, does he know about APRS being on 144.800 MHz in europe? :P
[10:04] <enkidu> in years Konstantynow LW broadcast station was working, nearby houses had problems with constantly working fluorescent lamps
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[10:05] <gonzo__> one of the locals has seen similat with his VLF tx
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[10:07] <Tramvai> Hello!
[10:07] <Tramvai> Quick question about building the payload antenna: the way I solder the coaxial cable shield doesn't really matter, does it?
[10:08] <nats`> it's for doing a balun or just to solder the antenna ?
[10:08] <nats`> if first choice it's matter
[10:08] <nats`> other just do a good soldering
[10:08] <Tramvai> In the wiki tutorial, the author made the shield into two bits and then soldered them to the rest of the wires: http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:qwave7.jpg
[10:08] <gonzo__> you want the braid to be as short as practically poss
[10:08] <Tramvai> I was thinking of not spreading the shielding into two and just wrap it around the wires
[10:08] <Tramvai> Oh
[10:09] <enkidu> nice approach, but it is easy to make one used in wifi routers
[10:09] <DL1SGP> Maxell: that pretty much is the issue with all the balloons they send over from USA :D but for being manned flight he might be able to switch the frequency
[10:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Why short ? It just becomes part of the groundplane.
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[10:10] <gonzo__> I assumed it was soldering the braid to the TX?
[10:10] <enkidu> http://egidy.de/wifi/wusb54g/08_pigtail_close.jpg
[10:10] <gonzo__> if it's the antenna end, then it is nkit critical
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That was my understanding
[10:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Tramvai, That looks fine as far as it goes!
[10:12] <Tramvai> I'm quite confused still
[10:12] <Tramvai> Does it matter how I solder the shield to the other wires then?
[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> So long as you go straight out at right angles, no good to run parrallell then to angle outwards
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[10:14] <Tramvai> What
[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Can you show us what you are doing not what the wiki suggests ?
[10:15] <Tramvai> Not really, my equipment isn't here
[10:15] <Maxell> DL1SGP: put in two transmitters and some sort of geofence+relais
[10:15] <Tramvai> But basically, I didn't trim the shield down
[10:15] <Tramvai> So it's quite long (~10cm at least)
[10:15] <Tramvai> And then I just passed the radiating element through the radials (which are twisted together)
[10:16] <Tramvai> And then I thought I could just wrap the braided shield around the radials
[10:16] <Tramvai> And solder them at some random places, would be easier
[10:16] <DL1SGP> Maxell: which way ever works best for him :) He will make it... somehow
[10:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> you will need to solder the braid to the radials.
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> otherwise the surfaces will oxidise
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> which will give poor electrical connection
[10:18] <Tramvai> That's what I meant
[10:18] <Tramvai> But what I'm asking is, does the braid length matter?
[10:18] <Tramvai> Or the way I do it
[10:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> it sounds ok, but without a photo difficult to be sure
[10:19] <Tramvai> I know a picture would say a lot more :P
[10:19] <Tramvai> But can't provide any
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[10:20] <DL1SGP> Trans-Atlantic Cluster Balloon is airborne
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[10:21] <Maxell> no whats
[10:21] <Maxell> wadsfasdf
[10:22] <Laurenceb> wtf o clock
[10:23] <Tramvai> What's happening on the tracker? What are the B-11 and B-12?
[10:23] <Laurenceb> hes not going to get far at 2mph
[10:23] <Laurenceb> Tramvai: went out of range
[10:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> He is indeed airborne and going the wrong way !!
[10:23] <Laurenceb> B-11 might be in range tomorrow
[10:23] <DL1SGP> Geoff-G8DHE-M: he will try to take the longpath :D
[10:23] <Tramvai> Are they basically hovering at ~10km altitude?
[10:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LolO
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[10:25] <DL1SGP> Canadian Border Police has started a helicopter to check his passport once he comes into their airspace
[10:25] <DL1SGP> :D
[10:25] <adamgreig> hah
[10:25] <adamgreig> hope they have a telephoto lens ;)
[10:26] <enkidu> Laurenceb: checked hysplit?
[10:26] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:26] <Laurenceb> coming east ?
[10:26] <gonzo__> how will they stamp it?
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[10:27] <nerdsville> morning all
[10:27] <enkidu> Laurenceb: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/16655_trj001.gif
[10:27] <nerdsville> HABE still launching today?
[10:28] <HixWork> nerdsville 11:00 UTZ ISH
[10:29] <Laurenceb> need to listen out tomorrow and Saturday
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It's a pity you don't have an identical balloon in your living room, inflated to the same pressure
[10:29] <zsentinel> anyone familiar with air variable caps?
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Would at least give som eidea on leakage
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: what?
[10:29] <zsentinel> SpeedEvil: air variable capacitor
[10:29] <nerdsville> thanks HixWork time to remote into listening station at home.. in work :-(
[10:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Tunign capacitors you mean ?
[10:30] <zsentinel> exactly
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: yes - I know what they are. What's your question
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[10:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> tuning
[10:30] <zsentinel> SpeedEvil: i am building a mag loop and bought one but am not sure how it is wired
[10:30] Action: SpeedEvil looks at the box of air variable caps.
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: Inspect it.
[10:30] <zsentinel> SpeedEvil: it came with no box, no datasheet, no instructions, and i have never used one before so i am not sure how t hey are supposed to work
[10:30] <Laurenceb> slow ascent
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: Look at the wires - you can usuall ytace quite easily which is which
[10:31] <zsentinel> SpeedEvil: thing is, there are no wires and no terminals
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: how many wires are there. Is it made of metal?
[10:31] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a picture.
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> there should normally be two tags on the cpacitor
[10:31] <zsentinel> this is the cap: http://i.imgur.com/vycgO3e.jpg
[10:31] <zsentinel> http://i.imgur.com/ksn2fjf.jpg
[10:31] <zsentinel> that is what i thought maybe it should be hooked up as
[10:31] <zsentinel> http://i.imgur.com/mVdQX0p.jpg
[10:32] <SpeedEvil> The chassis - the side bolts - are ground.
[10:32] <zsentinel> it appears in that pic that the center post is connected to the metal exterior
[10:32] <enkidu> zsentinel: use piece of paper whan taking photos with flash
[10:32] <SpeedEvil> The middle bolt isconnected to the variable component looks like
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[10:32] <zsentinel> SpeedEvil: yeah that is why i took that last pic
[10:32] <zsentinel> enkidu: yeah i realized after the first few and turned it off for that last one
[10:33] <zsentinel> but it seems the middle that spins is connected to the chassis
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> Use a multimeter
[10:33] <zsentinel> so i am not sure where the other connection should be made
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> touch one set of plates - and then measure the connections
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> and repeat with the other
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The moving plates are best grounded in that layout and the fixed plates should be the "live" side
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The fixed plates are on the brass threaded rods
[10:34] <zsentinel> Geoff-G8DHE-M: ok so the chassis itself is one connection, and the brass rods is the other? i guess i can just undo one of the brass rod nuts and put a connector on it?
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> just connect a tag to one of the threaded rods
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[10:35] <zsentinel> sorry for my ignorance but what do you mean by a tag?
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[10:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> a small see http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.electronelec.co.uk/acatalog/solder%2520tag.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.electronelec.co.uk/acatalog/M3_SOLDER_TAG_PACK_100.html&h=124&w=200&sz=13&tbnid=maIUcXdn2eIiVM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=124&zoom=1&usg=__1jzgjXH-_9OjD3dMku4sY4kaI5A=&docid=Gz2zbodohKeqnM&sa=X&ei=CJkxUvPBJsqbtQaTg4BI&ved=0CEkQ9QEwAA&dur=406
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[10:36] <zsentinel> ahhh got ya
[10:36] <zsentinel> and any part of the chassis will work for the other connection i assume
[10:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The other connection is to the brass plate which the bearing is mounted on
[10:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> yes a small bolt and tag thru one of the holes
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[10:38] <zsentinel> Geoff-G8DHE-M: can i safely undo one of the nuts and put the tag under it, or should i purchase another nut to put on top of one of the existing ones?
[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> that soldering of the spring looks poor as well :-(
[10:38] <zsentinel> really? that stinks, this wasnt cheap
[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> the brass plate was not hot enough to let the solder flow
[10:39] <zsentinel> that part isnt brass at all
[10:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> brass coloured
[10:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> probably plated
[10:39] <zsentinel> i guess if i have trouble i will redo it
[10:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> what freq. is this aerial for ?
[10:39] <zsentinel> its just the way the camera took the pic, the plate and the spring are both steel
[10:40] <zsentinel> Geoff-G8DHE-M: its a magloop for 40-20m
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Rx or Tx ?
[10:40] <zsentinel> both
[10:40] <zsentinel> that is why i got the big cap
[10:40] <zsentinel> its 25-310pf, 3.3kV
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK, in that case yes you do need a wide spaced capacitor incase the voltage gets a bit high!
[10:41] <zsentinel> Geoff-G8DHE-M: yes exactly :)
[10:41] <zsentinel> that is what i was told as well
[10:41] <zsentinel> http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/small_tx_loop_calc.aspx
[10:41] <zsentinel> i am using that calcumator
[10:41] <zsentinel> calculator sorry
[10:41] <zsentinel> i bought 3/4in copper pipe
[10:41] <zsentinel> i am going to make the outer loop square
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Sounds good!
[10:42] <zsentinel> was considering an octagon but i was told square will work just as well and has some actual benefits
[10:42] GMT (GMT@cpc15-haye15-2-0-cust426.17-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:42] <zsentinel> thanks so much though because not knowing how to wire the cap had me stuck, i didnt want to risk damaging it or worse
[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> depends on the construction, always used thick co-ax myself with cross spreaders, but depends on diameter!
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[10:43] <zsentinel> i got the 3/4in copper pipe really cheap, i was told the larger diameter the outer loop is, the better
[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes that's correct
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> just keep it away from other conductive surfaces
[10:44] <zsentinel> yeah i am going to hang it
[10:44] <zsentinel> from the ceiling
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> wiring, piping & wet roofs!
[10:44] <gonzo__> and make all the connections low resistance
[10:45] <zsentinel> gonzo__: i am trying my best
[10:45] <zsentinel> i was going to use flat copper strap to connect the cap to the copper pipe
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[10:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> yup again braid from co-ax is easy
[10:46] <zsentinel> someone said to drill a hole in the flat copper strap and use that to connect the cap to the copper pipe, i guess that would be instead of the solder tag
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[10:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> yes bolt the two together, but make sure surfaces are clean and stay that way
[10:48] <gonzo__> loops are very low impeadance so any extra resistanec is loss. Not really an issue on RX, but on TX that is lost power
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[10:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> soldering ensures the surfaces aren't exposed to oxygen so helps stop corroision
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[10:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> looks like Trapper is getting onto course
[10:50] <DL1SGP> yeah
[10:51] <Laurenceb> hehe Van Burne road
[10:51] <Laurenceb> *en
[10:51] <fsphil> sounds like it should be in Belfast. they like burning vans there :)
[10:52] Nick change: Mission-Critical -> MissionCritical
[10:52] <Laurenceb> www.arminvanbuuren.com/
[10:52] <Laurenceb> double u :-/
[10:54] <fsphil> bwren
[10:54] <Laurenceb> whats the blue line of aprs?
[10:54] <Laurenceb> predicted?
[10:54] <DL1SGP> Blue Line?
[10:55] <DL1SGP> heading indicator
[10:55] <Laurenceb> ah
[10:55] <DL1SGP> so yes, sorta kinda a prediction thing
[10:55] <DL1SGP> cause the faster he goes the longer it should get
[10:55] <DL1SGP> but it is nothing fancy :P
[10:56] <Laurenceb> mine is getting liners with time
[10:56] <Laurenceb> updating each second then reset to zero length at each update
[10:56] <Laurenceb> hes speeding up
[10:56] <DL1SGP> yea
[10:57] <DL1SGP> if he did not have the requirement of the life raft he could have flown a porta-potty which might have been convenient looking at the expected time of flight
[10:58] <zsentinel> Geoff-G8DHE-M: thanks much
[10:58] <Laurenceb> eww
[10:58] <zsentinel> Geoff-G8DHE-M: i am going to clean the copper with salt and vinegar before i built it
[10:58] <Laurenceb> just thought of that problem
[10:58] <zsentinel> built/build
[10:58] <zsentinel> i am also going to silver solder the pipe together at the elbows
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[10:59] <DL1SGP> Laurenceb: I would assume he uses same equipment as extreme climbers do. so do not be too afraid for sour rain
[10:59] <Laurenceb> ie nappies?!
[10:59] <fsphil> this is climbing without all that mountain nonsense :)
[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/KJ4GQV/201309121154.jpg
[11:00] <DL1SGP> Laurenceb: shitbags and such :D
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[11:03] <DL1SGP> Welcome back Graeme
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[11:07] <Laurenceb> into Canada
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[11:09] <Laurenceb> now... how does he stop ascending?
[11:09] <adamgreig> removes balloons :P
[11:09] <DL1SGP> Indeed
[11:09] Piet0r (~Piet0r@53559572.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[11:10] <Darkside> Teal'c: P.I.
[11:11] <mfa298> Darkside: :D
[11:12] <Darkside> glad someone got the reference
[11:12] Piet0r (~Piet0r@53559572.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left irc: Client Quit
[11:13] <mfa298> took me a minute to make the link.
[11:13] <mfa298> I'm sure there are a few others that should get it.
[11:19] cuddykid (~acudworth@94.197.120.105.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:19] <PE2G> I'll put the De Bilt (PA) ozone sonde on APRS. Launch in about 15 mins time
[11:19] <PE2G> http://nl.aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FPE2G-11&timerange=10800&tail=10800
[11:19] <PE2G> (Previous flight visible now)
[11:20] chrisg7ogx (5699a750@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.153.167.80) joined #highaltitude.
[11:20] <chrisg7ogx> gooood morning all
[11:22] <DL1SGP> gooooooooood morning chris
[11:23] <chrisg7ogx> wonderful about B11 B12 still flying
[11:24] daveake (~androirc@31.221.87.87) joined #highaltitude.
[11:24] <chrisg7ogx> dl1sgp whats the temperature at home there?
[11:24] <DL1SGP> outside?
[11:24] <chrisg7ogx> yes
[11:24] <chrisg7ogx> 18 degrees here
[11:24] <DL1SGP> 15.9c
[11:25] <Laurenceb> hes getting a bit high
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> chrisg7ogx: you mean they've been detected?
[11:25] <chrisg7ogx> thats not too bad seeing a change here now cooler at night and in the morning
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> chrisg7ogx: As I understood - they are merely likely to still be flying - possibly
[11:25] <Laurenceb> no chance of B-12 getting picked up i dont think
[11:26] <chrisg7ogx> story of my life being a bit premature!
[11:26] <Laurenceb> theres a change B-11 will head across the med tomorrow or saturday if its still up
[11:26] <gonzo__> I'd keep that to yourself!
[11:26] <chrisg7ogx> laurenceb tracked or physically picked up?
[11:26] <Laurenceb> tracked
[11:27] <GMT> it almost makes you want to get a cheap flight to Cyprus to see if you can hear 'em
[11:27] <DL1SGP> chrisg7ogx: during night temp falls down to abt 8c now, currently clouds are not that dense so it got a bit warmer
[11:27] <Laurenceb> <chrisg7ogx> appropriately the clusterballoon is heading to trouser lake
[11:27] <chrisg7ogx> LOL
[11:27] <chrisg7ogx> DL1SGP about the same here
[11:28] <chrisg7ogx> have to go and do some chores in a moment but hoping for HABE
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[11:29] <gonzo__> good name. There is a Knicker Brook at the Oulton Park race track
[11:29] <Maxell> Aww right, time to get ready
[11:29] <chrisg7ogx> there was a house mentioned on the radio for sale called, "2 Sluts Cottage"
[11:29] <Maxell> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=HABE%3BHABE_chase
[11:30] <chrisg7ogx> maxell tks
[11:31] <Maxell> NP
[11:32] <daveake> Plenty of room inside ?
[11:33] <chrisg7ogx> daveake "whateva"!
[11:36] <DL1SGP> if it says 2 sluts... then there most be plenty of space... imagine all the shoe storage space that would be required!
[11:37] <gonzo__> my mind was going down a totally different path reading tha comment!
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[11:38] <Laurenceb> hes too high surely
[11:38] <Laurenceb> http://fridaynightsmoke.co.uk/murray_mars.jpg
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[11:38] <chrisg7ogx> time to go
[11:43] <Laurenceb> is he dead yet?
[11:45] <Laurenceb> ah descending
[11:45] <Laurenceb> obviously not
[11:47] G4AIU-Eugene (56a11d44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.161.29.68) joined #highaltitude.
[11:49] <Laurenceb> troll prize of the day... http://i.imgur.com/wX9cxL7.jpg
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[11:51] <HixWork> is this the loction of 2 sluts cottage? http://goo.gl/9XbQuD
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[11:53] <GMT> HixWork: there is a ladies hairdressers near Marseille (France) called 'Fanny Coiffure'!
[11:53] <cuddykid> HABE is up
[11:53] <DL1SGP> Yay for HABE!
[11:53] <HixWork> GMT think this wins http://goo.gl/jgx3Cc
[11:54] <Maxell> yay habe
[11:54] <Maxell> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=HABE%3BHABE_chase
[11:55] <HixWork> blimey cuddykid you challenging B11?
[11:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll get the airgun out as he crosses the coast!
[11:56] <HixWork> heh
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[11:58] <GMT> HABE on .650?
[11:59] <Laurenceb> any info on HABE?
[11:59] <db_g6gzh> .647 for me
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[11:59] <db_g6gzh> 820 shift
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[11:59] <GMT> okay, just about audible on .647, too weak to decode yet
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[12:00] <Maxell> Strong QRM on 434.650 MHz here. I'll see if RevSpace will be able to hear anything :-)
[12:00] <Maxell> And boy it's going fast. I'm getting used to these slow floaters :P
[12:02] <Laurenceb> is this really a float attempt?
[12:02] PH3V (~renetuijt@ip5456e3dc.speed.planet.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[12:05] <HixWork> doesn't liik lik eit 5.6m/s
[12:05] <HixWork> hmm I've gone Dutch somehow
[12:07] <x-f> it's a 2.2 kg photographic payload, nobody's challenging Leo :)
[12:07] ike (~Miranda@78-130-179-217.vipnetbg.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:07] <ike> hi guys. Have you experience with ebay's si4432 modules
[12:08] <ike> they have some odd 6pin IC
[12:08] <ike> is this antenna switch?
[12:09] <Darkside> yes,it is
[12:09] <Darkside> TX/RX switch
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[12:09] <ike> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SI4432-470MHz-1000m-Wireless-Module-470M-433mhz-Wireless-Communication-Module-/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/3Y0AAOxy66pRtAJ8/$T2eC16V,!w0E9szNZI-(BRt!J8bueQ~~60_12.JPG
[12:09] <ike> chip near the antenna
[12:10] <ike> so I have to toggle si4432 GPIOs right?
[12:10] beingaware (~aware@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[12:10] <ike> "Note also that on the RFF22B, it is required to control the TX_ANT and X_ANT pins of the RFM22 in order to enable the antenna connection. The RF22 library is configured so that GPIO0 and GPIO1 outputs can control TX_ANT and RX_ANT input pins automatically. You must connect GPIO0 to TX_ANT and GPIO1 to RX_ANT for this automatic antenna switching to occur." http://www.airspayce.com/mikem/arduino/RF22/
[12:11] <ike> so this is true for ebay modules not only sparkfun RFM22b modules right?
[12:13] lz1dev (~rgp@188-221-236-112.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:13] <chrisg7ogx> going up at a fair old lick
[12:13] Wouter-[pa3weg] (~wouter@cust-95-128-95-33.breedbanddelft.nl) joined #highaltitude.
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[12:14] <nerdsville> Is it just me or is the frequency shift narrowing?
[12:15] <GMT> I thiunk it is narrowing
[12:16] PA1SDB (c3f1b778@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.241.183.120) joined #highaltitude.
[12:17] Action: DL1SGP hopes the cluster-pilot has oxygene
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[12:17] <chrisg7ogx> F5APQ is doing well
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> habe SHIFT IS 780hZ FOR ME
[12:18] <PA1SDB> Dial for 100 Hz center ?
[12:18] <PA1SDB> Dial for 1000 Hz center ?
[12:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.649130
[12:19] jim_g3wgm (5244226e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.68.34.110) joined #highaltitude.
[12:19] <PA1SDB> I have to go to work, so leve it unmanned listening. vingers crossed - tnx Geoff-G8DHE
[12:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> but driftng high
[12:20] <PA1SDB> 434 or 437 ?
[12:20] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> 434
[12:20] <G4AIU-Eugene> HABE shift for me is now 770Hz
[12:20] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> HABs are ISM band license exempt devices
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[12:21] <DL1SGP> Welkom terug, Wouter!
[12:22] <wb8elk> Jonathan Trappe manned trans-Atlantic balloon has launched. I'm picking up the HF telemetry now with great signals.
[12:22] Action: Wouter-[pa3weg] is in a work meeting, remote desktopping to the tracking PC
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[12:22] <wb8elk> Here's a frame I just received: $$NG0X,19,12:09:59,4711.74,-06652.88,6899,10,8.72,24*6F
[12:23] <DL1SGP> 14.0957 USB right wb8elk ?
[12:23] <wb8elk> HF on 14.0956 MHz USB
[12:23] <KipK> is this frequency shift because of temperature ?
[12:23] <wb8elk> At 00, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 min marks
[12:23] <DL1SGP> thank you wb8elk
[12:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> KipK, HABE yes temp. causes drift and changes in shift
[12:25] <wb8elk> If you tune 14.0956 MHz you'll see NG0X at 1900 Hz in the waterfall. 110 baud ASCII RTTY 8N1
[12:25] <KipK> I didn't knew that. This explains why I see some big range difference depending of temp difference between my tx & rx for LRS r/c
[12:25] <fsphil> I'll have a listen out for it when I get home
[12:25] <wb8elk> It is about 400 Hz above the center of the nearby WSPR frequency.
[12:25] <fsphil> hopefully it'll be a bit stronger when he's closer
[12:25] <fsphil> are there any predictions? is it coming towards the UK / spain / africa?
[12:26] Action: daveake gets ready if it goes to Spain
[12:26] <fsphil> and why is it not on spacenear? :)
[12:26] <wb8elk> I haven't reported it yet to Spacenear since dl-FLdigi v.50 crashed on me.... older v.29 is working great. I had to restart v.50 so hopefully it will work now. Is there a newer update to dl-FLdigi?
[12:27] <fsphil> there are a couple of test builds
[12:27] <fsphil> but nothing official
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[12:28] Piet0r (~Piet0r___@53559572.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[12:28] <Piet0r> Hi
[12:28] <DL1SGP> Goedendag Piet0r
[12:28] <chrisg7ogx> wb8elk can you give me a locator for the balloon please?
[12:28] <Piet0r> ;)
[12:29] <Piet0r> Nederlanders hier die mee gaan doen aan de ballonvoschenjacht a.s. zondag?
[12:29] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> yup, ik
[12:30] <Piet0r> Ah tof
[12:30] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> I see mark is tracking again ;)
[12:30] <Piet0r> Eerste keer zie ik (?)
[12:31] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> Piet0r: no, not the first time for me, I will be following the ATV signal, not driving to find the balloon
[12:31] <Piet0r> I see
[12:31] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> but I never joined the hunt
[12:32] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> and it will be the first time for me to track the ATV transmitter, I used the transponders before
[12:32] <craag> wb8elk: I just manually uploaded that frame you posted.
[12:32] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> decoding HABE9 by the way
[12:32] <Wouter-[pa3weg]> its quite wobbly
[12:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> shift is now down to 710Hz
[12:34] <Piet0r> @Wouter-[pa3weg] By tracking the ATV transmitter you mean physically following it with a yagi antenna?
[12:34] Babs (1fdd51ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.221.81.202) joined #highaltitude.
[12:35] <PA3WEG> not with a yagi, but a dish
[12:35] <Piet0r> Ah
[12:35] <PA3WEG> but yes (and now on another PC)
[12:36] <PA3WEG> I did the explanation this morning, but I guess you joined the chat later then
[12:36] <Piet0r> I'm not not going to hunt either
[12:36] <Piet0r> Just following the event via ATV, PI3UTR and the transponder in the balloon offcourse :)
[12:37] <Piet0r> Yes because I'm actually at work right now
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[12:39] <PA3WEG> same here
[12:39] <PE2G> Piet0r: I'll be supporting team Jan PA2GLA en Joep PA0SOM from home. We became third last year.
[12:39] <PA3WEG> I was in a meeting when I started to pick up the signal
[12:39] <PA3WEG> remote desktop is a beauty
[12:40] Administrator__ (~Hix@78-105-50-72.zone3.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] <PA3WEG> I'm doing the same for two teams this year, but I'm also going to be trying a DX record on 6cm first
[12:40] <PA3WEG> but it is still unsure if that will work out due to weather conditions
[12:41] <Piet0r> Weather will be crappy :/
[12:41] <PE2G> Actually, PA0SOM is training right now using the De Bilt ozone sonde. Direction finding without decoding.
[12:41] <Darkside> :D
[12:41] <Darkside> its good fun
[12:41] <Piet0r> Nice
[12:41] <Darkside> i do that here occasionally, on the local analog sondes
[12:41] <Piet0r> I was looking at de peildoos
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[12:43] <PA3WEG> I know weather wll be "dutch", but I can not go on the rood if wind speed > 6bft
[12:43] <PA3WEG> roof that is
[12:43] <Steve_at_Work> i thought spacenear.us showed the planned route of the balloon - No?
[12:43] <PA3WEG> plus, i do not really want to do that any way....its quite scary up there
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[12:44] <mfa298> Steve_at_Work: it does (at least it is for HABE)
[12:44] <adamgreig> Steve_at_Work: it does eventually/usually/if configured/after loading (delete as appropriate)
[12:44] <mfa298> although it's more oredicted route than planned route
[12:45] <mfa298> s/predicted/oredicted/
[12:45] <daveake> <-->
[12:45] <PA3WEG> sorry, no regexes
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[12:45] Action: mfa298 is obviously failing today.
[12:46] <Steve_at_Work> adamgreig: lol
[12:46] <mfa298> I'll go back to breaking servers.
[12:46] <daveake> :)
[12:47] <Piet0r> Already doing that ;)
[12:47] <daveake> Someone broke this display at LHR T5 today https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1240543_10151650091977654_453695279_n.jpg
[12:48] <Piet0r> Any prediction for the ozone sonde?
[12:48] <Maxell> Boom first decode green
[12:48] <PE2G> Piet0r: Lommel, Belgium
[12:48] <Piet0r> Oei
[12:48] <Maxell> too bad i only started tracking now, it has been in our horizon for a long time
[12:49] <Maxell> work was bugging me
[12:49] <Steve_at_Work> do we have many tracking stations north of birmingham
[12:49] <PE2G> What's the current dial for HABE pls?
[12:50] <PE2G> Have to dig it out of the interference
[12:51] <gonzo__> 434.651
[12:51] <wb8elk> more trouble with dl-FLdigi v.50...now says can't resolve host name even after perfect receive from the HF telemetry :-(
[12:51] <PE2G> gonzo__: Thanks!
[12:51] <Maxell> PE2G: SDR# on 434.650 Mhz, dl-fldigi like this: http://i.imgur.com/TfRDpcr.png
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[12:53] <KipK> by listening you guys, my project seems far more complicated than what I thought :) NEed to idle here foe a while
[12:53] <PE2G> Maxell: Ok, will try that, thanks
[12:53] <PE2G> Maxell: Nice clean waterfall you have, BTW
[12:53] <KipK> I want to put an fpv plane on a ballon and bring it back to groundstation trought FPV.
[12:54] <Maxell> Yeah, QRM gone :-)
[12:54] <HixWork> KipK we aren't allowed in the UK
[12:54] <KipK> I can have some special authorisation in france for that.
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[12:55] <craag> wb8elk: Does it mention which hostname it's trying to resolve?
[12:55] <Maxell> PE2G: \0/ http://i.imgur.com/NEYwbBz.png
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[12:56] <PA3WEG> PE2G: try 720 shift!
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[12:58] <PE2G> Traces...
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[12:58] <Maxell> PE2G: not like these, muahahha http://i.imgur.com/FjE9oBC.png
[12:59] <PA3WEG> Maxell, you are lucky I am actually working
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[12:59] <PA3WEG> if you want more signal to noise ;)
[13:00] <Maxell> PA3WEG: but, but, but $9 reciever
[13:01] <mikestir-work> my work is an impressive faraday cage
[13:01] iain_G4SGX (~iain@175.81.90.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:01] <PA3WEG> Mike, same here...inside
[13:01] <PA3WEG> thermal coated glass
[13:01] <mikestir-work> I brought my receiver with me to see if I could pick up HABE on the telescopic. I can, but only with a window wide open!
[13:01] <PA3WEG> you started the muhahaha maxell ;)
[13:02] <Maxell> To prevent signals coming in our coming out PA3WEG =)
[13:02] <fsphil> good to know you're protected from that nasty radiation there mikestir-work
[13:02] <PA3WEG> probably, cuase I will mess up your waterfal
[13:02] <wb8elk> HF RTTY signal is now centered around 1900 Hz if tuning 14.0956 MHz for NG0X manned balloon
[13:02] <iain_G4SGX> Wow, got a partial decode of NG0X, not quite green though.
[13:02] <PE2G> First green at 586 km , elev -0.3
[13:02] <fsphil> oh sweet iain_G4SGX
[13:02] <fsphil> that's a heck of a range :)
[13:02] <iain_G4SGX> trace is there though
[13:03] <iain_G4SGX> If I had a beam.... :(
[13:03] <craag> freq for NG0X?
[13:03] <iain_G4SGX> 14.0956
[13:03] <DL1SGP> 14.0956
[13:03] <craag> cheers
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[13:04] <PE2G> O3 sonde had it's burst at ~32km
[13:04] <Maxell> PA3WEG: do not want, thanks for not messting up all of Delft's and The Hague's wireless hardware
[13:05] <PE2G> http://s12.postimg.org/y6h85tgu5/Screen1079.jpg
[13:05] <PA3WEG> hahaha
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[13:06] <Maxell> wtf PE2G
[13:06] <KipK> what temperature do you have at 25000m ?
[13:06] <Maxell> PE2G horizonhunter
[13:06] <PA3WEG> I normally do not notice the DX. is there any way to extract this from the database?
[13:07] <PE2G> KipK: -52 C
[13:08] mc- (59f2987e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.242.152.126) joined #highaltitude.
[13:08] <Ugi> Some sort of GPS error on HABE?
[13:08] <Maxell> glitched gps yeah
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[13:09] <Ugi> looks like a receiver error - it came from one station only, where all of the others seem to be coming from around 10^5 separate receivers
[13:10] <mc-> I'm trying to track HABE, it seems to be closer spacing between frequencies, how do I adjust in FLdigi?
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[13:10] <Ugi> right click on RTTY at bottom left IIRC
[13:10] <Piet0r> Doesn't look like the o3 will go to Belgica, right?
[13:10] <adamgreig> so much for checksums
[13:10] <x-f> mc-, right click on "RTTY" in lower left corner
[13:10] <fsphil> ah neat Ugi, didn't know that
[13:11] <PE2G> Piet0r: I do think it will make it. Just.
[13:11] <mc-> thanks
[13:11] <PE2G> Piet0r: Parachute is good
[13:11] <mc-> whats the current spacing?
[13:11] <Maxell> adamgreig: checksum not reliable enough
[13:11] <Maxell> mc-: about 730
[13:11] <Ugi> There's a hell of a lot of trackers out today, for a Thursday.
[13:12] <fsphil> nothing heard from NG0X on the websdr in .nl
[13:12] <eroomde> any news from the transatlantic lunatic?
[13:13] <Maxell> fsphil: same here :P
[13:13] <Maxell> same websdr :P
[13:13] <DL1SGP> not hearing NG0X here either, eroomde http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKJ4GQV&timerange=172800&tail=3600
[13:13] <gonzo__> very weak here. Though the ystsem is not fully working
[13:14] <gonzo__> (habe that is)
[13:14] <Babs> was the transatlantic lunatic for real eroomde? his website read like David Icke
[13:14] <Ugi> can normal SDR pick up 20m band?
[13:14] <mfa298> Ugi: everyone has been having withdrawl symptoms!
[13:14] <DL1SGP> define "normal" SDR :)
[13:14] <gonzo__> which SDR?
[13:15] <eroomde> Babs, for real, apparently
[13:15] <HixWork> David Icke is walking along underneath him Babs
[13:15] <HixWork> acroos the atlantic
[13:15] <Babs> WITH THE LIZARDS
[13:15] <Ugi> well, it was really just a general question, but specifically I have an E4000 based dongle
[13:15] <mfa298> I dont think and of the the rtl-sdr's go down to 20m
[13:16] <HixWork> eroomde I purchased a Leica this morning ;)
[13:16] <mfa298> FCD Pro+ will do 20m though.
[13:16] <Mik_WD8MNV> need upconberter for that
[13:16] <gonzo__> the e4000 is a tv tuner chip. I only know of the FCDmk1
[13:16] <gonzo__> that will do down to 56MHz
[13:16] <eroomde> HixWork, oh my!
[13:16] <eroomde> what did you get?
[13:16] <Babs> I am sure if ace balloonist Per Lindstrand found it difficult with a multi million pound capsule, flying across with a shed will be a walk in the park
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[13:17] <HixWork> eroomde http://i.imgur.com/pEE2eGc.jpg - not the camera version but it is still Leica
[13:17] <Babs> lets hope you spelt Leica right on your amazon search HixWork http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika
[13:17] <eroomde> oh nice!
[13:17] <Babs> the alternatively spelt Laika would be getting a bit smelly at this point I imagine
[13:17] <eroomde> for soldering?
[13:17] <gonzo__> that would eb a bit hal;f baked
[13:18] <HixWork> soldering, but with the prism i can use it for photoraphy too :) Babs both spellings are cool
[13:19] <Ugi> who would not want a space-dog? And having been baked & then freeze-dried in space, she'd be pretty well preserved I should think!
[13:19] <Ugi> if you could get her back
[13:20] <Babs> i think she re-entered the atmosphere though right? More of a hot dog than a chili dog then
[13:20] <Babs> *bows*
[13:20] <mc-> I hearing a signal, I think it's HABE, however I'm not decoding anything sensible. Should it be USB or LSB?
[13:21] <PA3WEG> USB ideally
[13:21] <DL1SGP> usb
[13:21] <PA3WEG> but it does not matter, as DL_FLdigi has a reverse button
[13:21] <DL1SGP> indeed
[13:21] <HixWork> reign in in Babs
[13:21] <mc-> ah, where's the reverse button
[13:21] <Maxell> It might be pressed. Check if "Rv" is disabled when your reciever is in USB.
[13:22] <Maxell> Left of the SQL bar.
[13:22] <Maxell> Right next to Lv
[13:22] <Maxell> Lk.
[13:22] <Ugi> If you use the automatic payload setup then it should sort all that, I think.
[13:23] <PA3WEG> left of right next to ....what Maxell ;);)
[13:23] <iain_G4SGX> Must say NG0X does look incredibly like Jeremy Kyle..
[13:23] <HixWork> uh - what the hell did i post there?
[13:23] <DL1SGP> heh
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[13:23] <mc-> thanks
[13:23] <Ugi> Babs: ba-dum tish!
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[13:25] <Maxell> PA3WEG: bleh brainfart. "Next to Lk, on the right" :P
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[13:25] <Maxell> Burst already?
[13:27] <eroomde> i'm bored of making new parts in eagle
[13:27] <adamgreig> it gets so tedious
[13:27] <Maxell> Ah, great, QRM is back... http://i.imgur.com/yfUzbQ9.png
[13:27] <eroomde> i want to scream
[13:27] <adamgreig> kicad is nicer
[13:27] <eroomde> stand back, because i'm going to scream
[13:27] <adamgreig> what it needs is constraints
[13:27] <adamgreig> like any other cad software
[13:27] <adamgreig> "these pads are this far apart"
[13:27] <eroomde> eagle 6.5 does actually have a useful feature
[13:27] <adamgreig> and like, a row of pad creation
[13:27] <adamgreig> and other such obvious features
[13:28] <HixWork> what it needs is completely redesigning with an emphasis on the CAD side of EagleCAD
[13:28] <eroomde> right click on a part in sch or brd, and you have the option to edit the package/symbol/device
[13:28] <eroomde> just pops up
[13:28] <adamgreig> I mean every bloody footprint you make is probably going to require either useful constraints or the ability to make a quick row at a given pitch
[13:28] <eroomde> which really lowers the cost of doing s,all edits
[13:28] <adamgreig> kicad has had that for ages >_>
[13:28] <adamgreig> it is handy
[13:28] <adamgreig> but it's not as handy as just adding a sodding constraint tool
[13:28] <HixWork> I really need to give Ki a proper go
[13:28] <adamgreig> when people are having to write scripts to generate package files
[13:29] <HixWork> can you import dxf into a footprint?
[13:29] <adamgreig> you've completely fucked up your cad editor
[13:29] <adamgreig> HixWork: not sure.. don't _think_ so
[13:29] <HixWork> about right
[13:29] <adamgreig> you can actually import eagle libraries and boards etc now it turns out
[13:29] <adamgreig> but honestly
[13:29] <adamgreig> the proliferation of scripts to generate tqfp packages etc
[13:29] <HixWork> ah, no. I meant eagle
[13:29] <adamgreig> don't know about eagle
[13:29] <HixWork> its crap :)
[13:29] <HixWork> that much you do :)
[13:29] <adamgreig> I partially agree
[13:30] <adamgreig> I have used it a lot
[13:30] <PA3WEG> same here, and I use it profesionally
[13:30] <nats`> I prefer at least kicad to eagle :p
[13:30] <HixWork> yeah, bit harsh on it really
[13:30] <adamgreig> and like, some things considered, it's ok
[13:30] <adamgreig> it's got pcb design into a lot of people's hands
[13:30] <adamgreig> which is a good thing
[13:30] <HixWork> yup
[13:30] <adamgreig> and I'm sure if I set out to make a pcb editor it'd be worse in so many ways
[13:30] <adamgreig> but at the same time there are a number of imo glaring omissions
[13:30] <HixWork> just a shame its so badly thought out
[13:30] <adamgreig> that shouldn't even be that hard to get right
[13:30] <adamgreig> also these days I use kicad 100%
[13:30] <PA3WEG> its a hugely inderestimated task
[13:30] <adamgreig> it's just nicer
[13:31] <adamgreig> and open source and completely free and no limits
[13:31] <HixWork> probably why there are so many crap parts out there for it - peeps just got pissed off creating them
[13:31] <adamgreig> which is nice too
[13:31] <nats`> and it evolves prett quickly
[13:31] <nats`> pretty
[13:31] <nats`> my real preference goes to altium in the end
[13:31] <PA3WEG> I have been using Gerbv for ages now
[13:31] <adamgreig> gerbv is great
[13:31] <PA3WEG> really usefull stuff
[13:31] <nats`> (we use mentor at work and I want to rip my eyes off every time)
[13:31] <HixWork> I will give it a proper go. Just need to cross the "another new package to learn" threshold
[13:32] <HixWork> PADS?
[13:32] <nats`> nop expedition
[13:32] <PA3WEG> mentor, altium, protel, ultiboard, eagle, designspark, kicad and pcb elegance used here
[13:33] <HixWork> havnae a clue what the hardware guys here use
[13:33] <PA3WEG> the worst was _by far_ pcb elegance. people, do not even google that one!!
[13:33] <HixWork> but it doesn't speak to Catia [well it does but some krank in kóeln will not release the only license]
[13:33] <PA3WEG> HABE9 fading here....
[13:35] <nats`> HixWork almost all can at least export dxf of the board
[13:35] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/DomEX16.wav
[13:35] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/DomexDecoding.png
[13:35] <PA3WEG> back to 700 shift....
[13:35] <nats`> ho and if you want a "not so expensive" CAD software give a try to diptrace
[13:35] <nats`> I was positively surprised
[13:36] <gonzo__> drifting badly, fldid not keeping up
[13:38] <PA3WEG> traces now gone here
[13:38] <HixWork> nats` ironically WE give them a dxf of the board, but we could do with a package model back to do the housing designs
[13:39] <PH3V> Nothing heard from NG0X on the Websdr Ontario, Canada / supertuners.com. Bad HF antenna
[13:40] <iain_G4SGX> He was very week when I saw a trace, but haven't even seen any more since.
[13:41] <iain_G4SGX> *weak
[13:41] <PH3V> Uhh globaltuners.com ;-)
[13:42] <HixWork> LeoBodnar that WAV. is it DominoEX16 or a recording from the flight deck o f a Cessna 172
[13:43] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: 14 MHz beacon on radio amateurs trans-Atlantic balloon flight http://t.co/1sDekhkh2C #amsat #hamr #hab #ukhas
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> It's my test file for fooling around with DomEX decoding
[13:43] <Babs> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2418598/Daredevil-IT-manager-attempts-cross-Atlantic-simply-clinging-helium-BALLOONS--winds-blow-Iceland-Morocco.html
[13:43] <Babs> its a daily mail article and so is both true and accurate and politically neutral
[13:43] <Laurenceb> <LeoBodnar> wth
[13:43] <Laurenceb> youve coded it in c or something?
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> Hehe
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> Yep
[13:43] <Laurenceb> nice work
[13:44] <Laurenceb> very fast too
[13:44] <Laurenceb> what does fldigi think of the recording
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[13:45] <LeoBodnar> fldigi says: "ktXshrlqi29aGB3tùa1B,i9 t1,-r00,aD6dtia.o"
[13:46] <spaceball> Any news about B-12?
[13:46] <Laurenceb> hah
[13:46] <Laurenceb> even if tuned well?
[13:46] cuddykid (~acudworth@94.197.120.105.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:46] <Laurenceb> so you are searching for the header then aligning correctly and measuring power in each frequency bin?
[13:47] <LeoBodnar> No, I am correlating all possible combinations of three valid chars in a row
[13:47] <mfa298> I appear to have some interesting QRM drawing sets of sinewaves on my waterfal.
[13:48] <Laurenceb> oh very nice
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> And do the exhaustive header search to find exact position and modem freq
[13:48] <Laurenceb> oh
[13:48] <Laurenceb> so correlate to find header
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> fldigi is manually set on the same freq it generated the audio (1000)
[13:48] <Laurenceb> then do the valid character thing to get the string?
[13:48] <Laurenceb> i see
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[13:48] <LeoBodnar> Yep
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[13:48] <Laurenceb> very smart
[13:49] <cyclops> hi people!
[13:49] <LeoBodnar> :D
[13:49] <cyclops> back with good internet!
[13:49] <Laurenceb> any idea of the SNR dB improvement?
[13:49] <LeoBodnar> Mahoosive
[13:49] <Laurenceb> you have a script to add noise in?
[13:49] <craag> Hows the CPU usage of it?
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> Pre-existing knowledge of the message massively improves efficiency
[13:50] <Laurenceb> are you going to release the code?
[13:50] <craag> ie. Could you run it for a 200khz bandwidth :P
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> I have just slapped it together
[13:50] <gonzo__> though if you have too much knowledge of the signal, you will start seeing it in pure noise
[13:50] <Laurenceb> github it
[13:51] <craag> +1 for githubbing it
[13:51] <gonzo__> the eme people have that issue with the JT modes
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> about 10 sec to find the sync and about 10 sec to decode the string on an old MacBook
[13:51] <Laurenceb> not bad
[13:51] <Laurenceb> bet matlab would be like 10 hours to do the same correlation
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> I can't make it work with continuous phase between freq chips for some reason
[13:52] <eroomde> p(a|b)p(b)
[13:52] <eroomde> so simple but so powerful
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> So I am resetting phase information between the bins
[13:52] <cyclops> guys is there any simple way to get graphs out of the raw data?
[13:52] <cyclops> from habitat
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> SOmebody who know math and programming should have a fresh go at dl-fldigi
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> *knows
[13:53] <eroomde> i wish I was better at the latter
[13:54] <LeoBodnar> massive dropouts on IRC typing
[13:54] <eroomde> i can get most things working in mathsy languages. but it doesn't take me long to make a mess with posix threads
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[13:55] <eroomde> but i am usually quite quick to get to the 'oh my god i can see the matrix' initial promising results with statistical techniques
[13:55] <Laurenceb> hmm if WSPR works down to -28dB
[13:55] <Laurenceb> this has got to be getting there
[13:56] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: is that someone talking i can hear?
[13:56] <Laurenceb> i dont get it
[13:56] <Laurenceb> speaker and mic across a room or something??
[13:56] <eroomde> people are testing pressure releif valves next to my lab door
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> Server running Mac OS X announced the time :)
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[13:56] <eroomde> it's the worst possible noise
[13:57] <iain_G4SGX> Looked at JT9? Similar to WSPR-ish.
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> I am relieved
[13:57] <gonzo__> HAEB down? Looks like a tree and power line free area
[13:57] <gonzo__> HABE
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> I am just trying to play with stuff after eroomde talk. I always had a thing for FT analysis
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[13:58] <eroomde> it's a lot of fun
[13:58] <Laurenceb> this looks like a very clever technique - theres redundant information in the encoded dominoex
[13:58] <Laurenceb> genius
[13:58] <eroomde> signal processing, especially with a statistical bent, is just fascinating
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> I thought fldigi is ultimate in performance
[13:58] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:58] <Laurenceb> no way
[13:59] <LeoBodnar> Well if you are only trying to correlate with valid combinations you are eliminating massive amount of chuff
[13:59] <eroomde> Laurenceb / LeoBodnar, so if I understand it correctly it's taking advantage of the information you get by know it's trellis coded?
[14:00] <eroomde> i.e. from some state it can only go to a finite state of other possible states/ freq shifts
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[14:00] <eroomde> finite set*
[14:00] <Laurenceb> more or less i guess
[14:00] <Laurenceb> but its trellis by accident
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> So I am ASSUMING in the decoder that there are no fancy chars, just minimum set of [0-9A-FaF.,*/]
[14:00] <Laurenceb> due to the design of dominoex
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[14:01] <eroomde> yes indeed. but that's still trellis
[14:01] <Laurenceb> this seems so good im betting its up there with WSPR
[14:02] <Laurenceb> but massively higher bps
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> Trellis coding was actually invented in North Wales.
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> So if you have a dropout in say 1?3 sentence you only need to test for 20-30 valid combinations.
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[14:02] <SpeedEvil> By a Ms Trellis.
[14:03] <eroomde> i think Leo has just independently discovered viterbi decoding :)
[14:03] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: you could try making the checksum match
[14:03] <Laurenceb> using brute force and soft decision stuff
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> Add to this checksum validation in the decoder and you are onto something here
[14:04] <LeoBodnar> fuzzy logic-style decidion
[14:04] <eroomde> we don't call it fuzzy logic anymore
[14:04] <LeoBodnar> or binary tree travel like in machine chess
[14:04] <eroomde> that goes down like a bad smell with ML people
[14:04] <eroomde> :)
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[14:05] <eroomde> but yeah a checksum fitter would be awesome
[14:05] <eroomde> the most likely valid string
[14:06] <Laurenceb> if way one or two symbol decodes are dodgy
[14:06] <Laurenceb> and checksum doesnt match
[14:07] <Laurenceb> then you can start trying with the symbols at the next most likely decode and so on
[14:07] <Laurenceb> it rapidly gets impossible to solve
[14:07] <Laurenceb> but the nature of the noise helps here
[14:07] <Laurenceb> its flicker and fading noise, so its more likely that onyl one of two symbols will be poor
[14:07] <Laurenceb> *or
[14:08] <Laurenceb> talking of flipped symbols...
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[14:09] <adamgreig> also you rapidly run out of checksum validation ability
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[14:09] <adamgreig> birthday paradox
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[14:09] <adamgreig> uhm, something like 302 changes at random before you hit 50%?
[14:09] <adamgreig> bit changes
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[14:12] <eroomde> i guess you'd go after the low confidence bits
[14:13] <eroomde> try the first 8 least confident bit decisions
[14:13] <eroomde> i.e. 256 tests
[14:13] <Laurenceb> yeah thats what i was saying
[14:13] <eroomde> and see if any of them pass
[14:13] <adamgreig> not sure you want to come even close to 50% odds of your checksum not being right
[14:13] <Laurenceb> Leo has gone :P
[14:13] <adamgreig> really just want to add FEC. or longer checksums
[14:13] <adamgreig> CRC32 would be better
[14:13] <eroomde> tedious
[14:13] <Laurenceb> im not so sure
[14:13] <adamgreig> well I mean
[14:13] <Laurenceb> with fading noise and stuff
[14:13] <eroomde> yeah FEC would help
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[14:13] <adamgreig> you want to have CRC32 checksums if you want to start messing with bits
[14:14] <eroomde> leo is back
[14:14] <eroomde> having missed a chunk of chat
[14:14] <Laurenceb> i think you are likely to only see one or two poor symbols
[14:14] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:14] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: maybe
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> Had a noise dropout
[14:14] <Laurenceb> haha
[14:14] <eroomde> just because of lower clash likelihood adamgreig?
[14:14] <adamgreig> sounds like a question for.. science
[14:14] <adamgreig> eroomde: yea
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> zeus Log to the rescue
[14:14] <adamgreig> though then you have more checksum bits to transmit correctly too
[14:14] <adamgreig> so obviously a balance
[14:14] <eroomde> indeed
[14:14] <Laurenceb> i guess you need to 1) do nothing if checksum matches
[14:14] <adamgreig> but you can include the checksum bits in your corrections
[14:15] <eroomde> but yes i suspect that FEC is probably the easier way of doing this
[14:15] <Laurenceb> 2) if it doesnt, then look for anomalously poor symbol decodes
[14:15] <adamgreig> i.e. low confidence checksum bits can be flipped too, then see if the new checksum matches
[14:15] <adamgreig> good FEC basically solves all the problems :P
[14:15] <eroomde> and you do the max likelihood on what a bit is at the FEC stage
[14:15] <Laurenceb> if you have one or two or something low confidence outliers
[14:15] <adamgreig> yea
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> My thinking is that dl-fldigi can be improved without too much effort
[14:15] <Laurenceb> then you try brute force
[14:15] <HixWork> Laurenceb you like a bit of a kickstarter no? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z-sdO6pwVHQ#t=0
[14:15] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: have you _seen_ its source code?
[14:15] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, for sure
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> Not yet
[14:15] <adamgreig> plus assuming the FEC is actually operative you probably don't need to start messing with changing bits anyway
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> But I can guess
[14:15] <eroomde> it's really basic 'classical' implementations od the decoding
[14:16] <adamgreig> the FEC should hopefully have resolved the few symbol problems we expect to encounter
[14:16] <eroomde> really very little smarts
[14:16] <Laurenceb> i tried to read fldigi source...
[14:16] <Laurenceb> brain explode
[14:16] <adamgreig> and for all that it's too slow to run on an rpi
[14:16] <adamgreig> I mean it's a fav whipping boy round these parts
[14:16] <adamgreig> it's not all bad
[14:16] <Laurenceb> has anyone tried it recently?
[14:16] <Laurenceb> with hard float support and stuff
[14:16] <eroomde> no
[14:16] <adamgreig> and writing something yourself - that actually works - is hard
[14:16] <Hes> I think fldigi originally forked from OH2BNS's gmfsk app source code, Tomi used to write very pretty code
[14:16] <eroomde> last time was to pull the DominoEX encoder software out
[14:16] <eroomde> several years ago
[14:17] <adamgreig> that said given as your thing seems to be working in C, that's a pretty good start
[14:17] <eroomde> and that was nicely written, got dominoex working in about half an hour
[14:17] <adamgreig> yea
[14:17] <Laurenceb> but its easy to encode :P
[14:17] <adamgreig> parts of it are fairly ok
[14:17] <Laurenceb> yeah - the pulled in parts
[14:17] <adamgreig> but it's a big and somewhat sophisticated piece of software
[14:17] <adamgreig> any sufficiently large program etc
[14:17] <Laurenceb> the core code is impenetrable
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[14:18] <Laurenceb> yeah i guess if the decoder keeps some sort of record of confidence
[14:18] <adamgreig> I still wanna try my probabilistic ukhas rtty demod
[14:19] <adamgreig> but I think I would rather see people use real fec
[14:19] <Laurenceb> markov model
[14:19] <Laurenceb> :P
[14:19] <adamgreig> it's in many ways a shame that our channel is so great for 95% of the time
[14:19] <LeoBodnar> It's difficult to know where to draw the line. E.g. decoder assumes modem frequency stays bang on during the message. Even though you can fine-tune it as you progress through decoding but it starts dissolving decision peaks
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[14:19] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: tracking!
[14:19] <adamgreig> but yea, having such a great channel really removes a lot of impetus to develop cleverer solutions
[14:19] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: for your stuff i think its fair to assume constant frequency
[14:19] <adamgreig> basically we can decode our 50 baud craptastic rtty for 600+km, until it drops off a huge cliff
[14:20] <adamgreig> so like..
[14:20] <adamgreig> eh
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> Unless you are using SDR dongle in a drafty room :D
[14:20] <eroomde> having 1.2k up and down by default would be a nice state of affairs
[14:20] <eroomde> think it's possible
[14:20] <adamgreig> what for though?
[14:20] <adamgreig> not enough for video
[14:20] <adamgreig> too much for telem
[14:20] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:20] <eroomde> could have the mythical flying lisp REPL to do flight logic 'on the fly'
[14:21] <eroomde> it's not too much for telem at all
[14:21] <adamgreig> that would be hugely entertaining
[14:21] <adamgreig> hmm
[14:21] <Laurenceb> i think we need some kind of over the horizon stuff
[14:21] <Laurenceb> for pico
[14:21] <eroomde> it's too much for a polystyrene box with a camera in
[14:21] <adamgreig> right
[14:21] <eroomde> but hopefully people will move byond that
[14:21] <adamgreig> sure
[14:21] <adamgreig> that would be nice
[14:21] <adamgreig> but people don't seem to be moving in directions that require _more_ telem :P
[14:21] <adamgreig> if anything fewer sensors
[14:21] <eroomde> actively stabilised thing with lots of state being downlinked at once
[14:21] <eroomde> gliders
[14:21] <Laurenceb> we need over the horizon but very low throughput
[14:21] <eroomde> HF
[14:22] <Laurenceb> for pico
[14:22] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: yea. wspr or similar
[14:22] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe, im worried about power lines
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[14:22] <eroomde> pff
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> I can see few diverging groups
[14:22] <adamgreig> you will probably struggle to do over the horizon without hf
[14:22] <eroomde> 20m of thin copper won't hurt anyone
[14:22] <Babs> *Babs wakes up* did someone say actively stabilised?
[14:22] <Laurenceb> need to think about if there is a solution to this...
[14:22] <Darkside> eroomde: it'll trip HT lines
[14:22] <Laurenceb> eroomde: kind of what im thinking
[14:22] <adamgreig> eroomde: if it shorts a power line that then plasma arcs it might be entertaining
[14:22] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:22] <eroomde> yes indeed
[14:22] <adamgreig> but as mentioned, modern power lines are good at this
[14:22] <Laurenceb> thats the porry
[14:22] <Darkside> and it will trip them and keep themt ripped
[14:22] <eroomde> but schmetails
[14:22] <adamgreig> they will trip, short, then autoreclose
[14:22] <adamgreig> s'fine
[14:23] <Darkside> adamgreig: they reclose too quickly
[14:23] <Laurenceb> Darkside: the wire will be gone in 100µS
[14:23] <adamgreig> Darkside: they should reclose such that a plasma fault can clear
[14:23] <Darkside> there'll still be an ionisation trail
[14:23] <Darkside> dunno about that
[14:23] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: the wire might be gone but a plasma cloud will keep conducting
[14:23] <Laurenceb> only from the air plasma
[14:23] <Darkside> from what i've been told its within a few ms
[14:23] <adamgreig> Darkside: I thought that was the design spec :/
[14:23] <Laurenceb> yeah sure
[14:23] <eroomde> yeah only from the air
[14:23] <eroomde> the copper will be gone instantly
[14:23] <Laurenceb> but thats no different from air
[14:23] <Darkside> ionoisation trail will conduct
[14:23] <adamgreig> yea
[14:23] <gonzo__> leaving a trailing end at HT hanging down close to the ground
[14:23] <Laurenceb> copper is gone i n <100µS
[14:24] <Laurenceb> you can prove this with simple maths
[14:24] <adamgreig> but once the breaker cuts off
[14:24] <adamgreig> the plasma will start dissipating
[14:24] <Laurenceb> so its a question of the danger from the air breakdown it triggers
[14:24] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:24] <adamgreig> and should hopefully all dissipate before the breaker turns on again
[14:24] <eroomde> i can't see it would be worse than the exploding squirrels that bridge between overhead conductors
[14:24] <Darkside> adamgreig: do you want to test this?
[14:24] <adamgreig> but I mean that's obviously not ideal anyway
[14:24] <adamgreig> no
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> Plasma should recombine within usec
[14:24] <adamgreig> not in the least bit
[14:24] <adamgreig> even if it does operate
[14:24] <adamgreig> the breaker can still fail
[14:24] <adamgreig> it happens
[14:24] <adamgreig> and even if it doesn't fail, it's an Event
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[14:24] <adamgreig> how much insulation would you need on the wire?
[14:24] <Darkside> yes, the circuit gets shut down
[14:25] <Darkside> and lots of money starts being lost
[14:25] <Darkside> adamgreig: way too much
[14:25] <eroomde> probably enough to make it annoyingly heavy
[14:25] <adamgreig> yea probably
[14:25] <Darkside> like, 5mm of silicone for 10kv
[14:25] <adamgreig> lol
[14:25] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of boric acid coating
[14:25] <adamgreig> can you do better than silicone?
[14:25] <Laurenceb> but i dont know where youd test this
[14:25] <Darkside> tflon maybe?
[14:25] <adamgreig> clearly the solution is plasma antennas
[14:25] <Darkside> lol
[14:25] <Laurenceb> boric acid is endothermic
[14:25] <adamgreig> or ice antennas
[14:25] <Darkside> anyway, for OTHR stuff 6m might be a solution
[14:25] <craag> or saltwater
[14:25] <Laurenceb> it snuffs the plasma
[14:25] <Darkside> for closer-in stuff anyway
[14:26] <adamgreig> craag: water antennas might present a transport issue :P
[14:26] <Darkside> but dont forget that depending on frquency a spot HF frequency won't always help
[14:26] <adamgreig> Darkside: clearly we just need over the horizon RADAR
[14:26] <Laurenceb> this is the "pro" solution to these problems
[14:26] <Laurenceb> haha
[14:26] <Darkside> the payload will go over the horizon, and you won't hear the HF signal
[14:26] <Laurenceb> actually....
[14:26] <craag> adamgreig: hmm, fly it into rainclouds?
[14:26] <Darkside> but someone 3000km away will
[14:26] <Darkside> Laurenceb: don't go there.
[14:26] <gonzo__> most habs have an affility to salt water anyway
[14:26] <Laurenceb> holy shit that might work
[14:26] <Darkside> oh dear
[14:26] <Laurenceb> passive over the horizon
[14:26] <adamgreig> sorry for mentioning it
[14:27] <Laurenceb> this could be epic
[14:27] <Darkside> Laurenceb: do you have any idea how HARD the ionosphere is to model
[14:27] <iain_G4SGX> NG0X seems to bee loosing a lot o height according to APRS
[14:27] <adamgreig> mesh network of HAB
[14:27] <Darkside> like, holy shit it is complicated
[14:27] <Darkside> adamgreig: that is the only real solution
[14:27] <Darkside> tbh
[14:27] <adamgreig> uhm
[14:27] <adamgreig> no
[14:27] <Darkside> well
[14:27] <Darkside> not mesh
[14:27] <Laurenceb> doh
[14:27] <adamgreig> for instance ground based listening stations is another good solution
[14:27] <Darkside> but high altitude relay
[14:27] <Laurenceb> slight problem
[14:27] <Laurenceb> one small issue here
[14:27] <gonzo__> tigher mesh of groundstations
[14:27] <adamgreig> which has worked pretty well recently!
[14:27] <adamgreig> but, HAB relays could be sweet
[14:27] <Laurenceb> poassive over the horizon needs....
[14:28] <Laurenceb> a HF antenni
[14:28] <Laurenceb> fail
[14:28] <adamgreig> thing is, HAB relay at 40km over UK doesn't actually get you far
[14:28] <Darkside> Laurenceb: passive over the horizon radar is HARD. its been workd on for years
[14:28] <KipK> we could use some r/c planes as relay
[14:28] <KipK> hovering around a position
[14:28] <Darkside> and there arent enough good signals of opportunity
[14:28] <adamgreig> KipK: they can't get even close to as high altitude
[14:28] <adamgreig> you'd need so many. and then tehy're illegal and stuff
[14:28] <Darkside> Laurenceb: my PhD was meant to be on this. unfortunately the signal i was going to use went the way of the dodo.
[14:28] <adamgreig> you'd need so many HABs to get decent coverage that I don't think it'd work
[14:28] <KipK> yep but having them at few hunderd meters would help to have a good LOS signal
[14:28] <adamgreig> KipK: not really...
[14:29] <adamgreig> a HAB at 40km still won't get much more horizon
[14:29] <eroomde> I honestly think the HF is the solution to thi and that powerlines are just not that scary an issue
[14:29] <eroomde> the only issue i can see is the 2m rule
[14:29] <Darkside> 2m rule?
[14:29] <KipK> and what about a pan/tilt tracker on the baloon ? Pointing antenna to groundstation + a tracker on the gs too
[14:29] <Laurenceb> yeah im tending to that view
[14:29] <adamgreig> maybe use more compact HF antennas
[14:29] <Darkside> oh
[14:29] <Hes> A distributed decoder, integrate over signals received by multiple receivers?
[14:29] <Darkside> adamgreig: compact = inefficient
[14:29] <eroomde> in which case you just go as long as you can and load it to the right resonance on the pcb
[14:29] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of a trailing J-pole
[14:29] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: can you run some standard DomEX 16 encoded HAB telemetry strings via HF noise model at controlled S/N ratios and upload somewhere for me to play with?
[14:29] <adamgreig> KipK: still won't get you over the horizon
[14:29] <Darkside> especially in 2m
[14:29] <Hes> Single decoder, multiple receivers
[14:29] <adamgreig> Darkside: oh boo hoo efficiency tho
[14:29] <KipK> directional circual antenna on booth side
[14:29] <adamgreig> we need like 1 bit a minute
[14:29] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: just do it using white noise
[14:30] <Hes> KJ4GQV descending, from 6km to 2km already
[14:30] <eroomde> yeah who cares about efficiency
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[14:30] <eroomde> you work with what you've got
[14:30] <eroomde> we have bayes rule
[14:30] <eroomde> f*ck efficiency
[14:30] <Darkside> i do have some HF noise recordings floating about the place you could use
[14:30] <adamgreig> as Hes suggests
[14:30] <Laurenceb> i wonder what 2m rule says about trailing 38awg j-pole
[14:30] <adamgreig> upload radio samples from multiple sites
[14:30] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: I think you have a controlled workflow already? Please :)
[14:30] <adamgreig> do dsp magic
[14:31] <adamgreig> but to be honest I'm not sure that would be easy at HF
[14:31] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: mine is designed to show the effects of specific TIDs
[14:31] <adamgreig> the channels would all be annoyingly different and you then need time sync again
[14:31] <Darkside> not as a generic HF simulator
[14:31] <Darkside> also i'm in bed
[14:31] <adamgreig> which is a hard problem
[14:31] <Darkside> >_>
[14:31] <eroomde> it's a hard problem when everyone suploads are at different freqs and phases
[14:31] <eroomde> assuming wav
[14:31] <adamgreig> or an expensive or anoying one anyway
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> Oh, ok :D nps
[14:31] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: just add white noise
[14:31] <Darkside> use audacity
[14:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Look likes he's coming down 1.7Km now
[14:31] <adamgreig> so probably just each receiver does their own decode
[14:31] <Darkside> add another track, generate noise, atteuate other track
[14:31] <adamgreig> but sufficient FEC on the signal
[14:32] <adamgreig> we've seen how far wspr can propagate
[14:32] <Darkside> Geoff-G8DHE-M: lol
[14:32] <adamgreig> slow that bit rate right down, use a low efficiency antenna
[14:32] <adamgreig> shove as much power into it as we can afford
[14:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah last shoes him going up again ...
[14:32] <eroomde> i wonder if there's some freq and phase (i.e. peoples Rxs at different centre freqs, slightly different adc sample rates etc) representation of the data
[14:32] <Hes> KJ4GQV is a chicken.
[14:32] <LeoBodnar> They can all make correlation analysis and upload the peaks only
[14:32] <eroomde> for comparing them
[14:32] <Darkside> WSPR does some weird things
[14:32] <Darkside> i hav my reservations about 'Deep search'
[14:32] <adamgreig> lol
[14:32] <Darkside> which is how it gets down to <-20dB SNR
[14:32] <adamgreig> I don't
[14:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Better make his mind up he's just on the coast!!
[14:32] <adamgreig> it's just bayes >_>
[14:33] <Darkside> hrm
[14:33] <eroomde> may he rest in peace
[14:33] <adamgreig> but I do really enjoy the hams who argue to the ends of the earth about deep search on jt64 for eme
[14:33] <Laurenceb> Darkside: Leo is getting into that territory
[14:33] <Darkside> so theres checksumming and stuff in wspr?
[14:33] <Laurenceb> wtf at clusterballoon
[14:33] <Darkside> so you know what you decode is actually what was sent
[14:33] <Laurenceb> com,ing down fast
[14:33] <Darkside> and not some figment of the decoders imagination
[14:33] <adamgreig> Darkside: well it depends and stuff
[14:33] <adamgreig> but decoders don't have imagination
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[14:33] <adamgreig> they have signal and priors
[14:33] <adamgreig> and detection thresholds
[14:33] <Darkside> mm
[14:33] <adamgreig> the rest is maths
[14:34] <Darkside> theres also WSPR-15 now
[14:34] <Darkside> or whatever its called
[14:34] <adamgreig> but obviously we can't do what jt64 does
[14:34] <adamgreig> which is that fantastic self-spot thing
[14:34] <Darkside> that uses 15 minute long sequences
[14:34] <Laurenceb> hes coming down
[14:34] <adamgreig> tell everyone "hey listen for signal M0RND on this precise freq"
[14:34] <Darkside> yeah
[14:34] <adamgreig> and that's all you tx
[14:34] <Laurenceb> looks like he abandoned it
[14:34] <Darkside> adamgreig: thats the one
[14:34] <Darkside> thats the one that pisses me off
[14:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/KJ4GQV/201309121534.jpg
[14:34] <adamgreig> Darkside: in principle it's fine
[14:34] <Darkside> anyways
[14:34] <adamgreig> just a question of what you say about it
[14:34] <Darkside> its not a QSO imo
[14:34] <adamgreig> it's not correct to say "we received M0RND from the signal, no prior knowledge"
[14:34] <Darkside> but whatever
[14:35] <Darkside> yes
[14:35] <adamgreig> but it is correct to say "with a detection likelihood of N (and thus a false alarm rate M), we believe we received M0RND"
[14:35] <Darkside> WSPR-15 uses 15-minute T/R sequences, rather than the standard 2-minute sequences; at MF and LF it is 9 dB more sensitive than WSPR-2, decoding signals as weak as -37 dB in the standard 2500 Hz reference bandwidth. WSPR-15 is not recommended for use at HF: the tone spacing is only 0.183 Hz, less than the Doppler spreading typical of many HF paths
[14:35] <Darkside> heh
[14:35] <Darkside> yeah, 0.183Hz is a tiny TINY shift
[14:36] <Darkside> doppler spread would kill that
[14:36] <adamgreig> lol .183Hz shift
[14:36] <Darkside> temperature drift would also be a problem
[14:36] <adamgreig> mental
[14:37] <Darkside> i think WSPR handles drift over time, but drifting within a single symbol will probably kill it
[14:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> down to 1400ft
[14:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> he's landing on the shore ..
[14:37] <Laurenceb> he hopes
[14:37] <eroomde> you could however take say x Hz and x+0.5Hz and hunt around in that space with arbitrary freq precision to see which has the strongest signal
[14:37] <Laurenceb> chicken
[14:37] <eroomde> and look for discrete jumps
[14:37] <Darkside> mm
[14:37] <DL1SGP> yeah looks like he aborted the flight Geoff-G8DHE-M
[14:38] <iain_G4SGX> Maybe he thought 'Hang on, what the hell am i doing?' and bottled.lol
[14:38] <adamgreig> wonder how well changepoint detection would work :P
[14:38] <eroomde> bingo :)
[14:38] <Darkside> anyways, OTH stuff definitely has to be HF
[14:38] <adamgreig> eroomde: for really really long integration periods though?
[14:38] <Darkside> you could use the WSPR network for coarse positioning
[14:38] <adamgreig> just have a huge G matrix?
[14:38] <eroomde> yes
[14:38] <eroomde> and stand well back
[14:38] <Darkside> but i wouldn't push more data through it than that, else people might gt shitty
[14:38] <Darkside> heh
[14:38] <LeoBodnar> Doesn't WSPR allow 500m precision?
[14:38] <Darkside> reminded of a satirist just now
[14:39] <Rebounder> not a good day for GN0X it seems
[14:39] <adamgreig> I think wspr people might enjoy it
[14:39] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: is that how much you get from a 6-letter locator?
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> I think so
[14:39] <adamgreig> but I don't think wspr is ISM band
[14:39] <Darkside> i thought it was worse than that
[14:39] <adamgreig> so UK amateur licenses airborne...
[14:39] <Darkside> its not
[14:39] <adamgreig> whereas there is an ISM band on 40 isn't there?
[14:39] <adamgreig> or something
[14:39] <Darkside> nope
[14:39] <Laurenceb> theres the dual packet format
[14:39] <Darkside> you want to be using WSPR on the WSPR frequencies
[14:39] <adamgreig> Darkside: nope what?
[14:40] <Laurenceb> 20m
[14:40] <adamgreig> well obviously WSPR has to be on WSPR freqs
[14:40] <Darkside> or 30m
[14:40] <adamgreig> but there is HF ISM
[14:40] <Darkside> not on 40m im sure
[14:40] <Darkside> 40m is primary use
[14:40] <Darkside> anyway, 40m doesnt get you that far
[14:40] <Darkside> 20m is a good bet
[14:40] <adamgreig> hmm 40MHz
[14:40] <adamgreig> not 40m
[14:40] <Darkside> oh
[14:40] <Darkside> 40mhz doesnt gt skywave
[14:40] <adamgreig> there's also 27MHz
[14:40] <Darkside> unless you have sporadic E
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> He must be down by now
[14:40] <gonzo__> there is ISM around 13.5 I think
[14:41] <Darkside> yes
[14:41] <Darkside> 13.56MHz
[14:41] <Darkside> i.e. RFID
[14:41] <adamgreig> 13.5MHz is for RFID
[14:41] <adamgreig> not sure if you can use it for HF telem..
[14:41] <adamgreig> but hey, maybe
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[14:41] <Laurenceb> but theres no WSPR receivers
[14:41] <Laurenceb> so why bother
[14:41] <adamgreig> DC to 150kHz is ISM too ;)
[14:41] <Darkside> 20m is the key
[14:41] <Laurenceb> unless you use Domineox...
[14:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Looks like he's trying to get out of the trees to land on the shore
[14:41] <Darkside> you guys need to push the RSGB
[14:41] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:42] <Laurenceb> oops
[14:42] <Laurenceb> in the trees?
[14:42] <Darkside> so you can do amateur stuff airborne
[14:42] <gonzo__> lost of representations have been made
[14:42] <adamgreig> suspect ofcom dc
[14:42] <gonzo__> lots
[14:42] <Darkside> its the RSGB that has to do it
[14:42] <Darkside> not you guys
[14:42] <adamgreig> when telcos will pay billions
[14:43] <Darkside> i doubt ofcom will listen to small groups, but they may listen to the RSGB
[14:43] <Darkside> anyway, i can understand why that restriction exists
[14:43] <gonzo__> they are on board with it. As they are desperate for something with a wow factor. And HAB has that
[14:43] <DL1SGP> that US bloke made a forest landing according to APRS
[14:43] <Darkside> as once you get up 30km, you'll hit heaps of stuff in europe
[14:43] <Darkside> and if you dont do your bandplanning right, you'll cause interference
[14:43] <Darkside> but the same problem exists in the US, and they allow it
[14:44] <Darkside> so go figure
[14:44] <adamgreig> Darkside: and europe all allows it
[14:44] <Darkside> yeah :P
[14:44] <Rebounder> DL1SGP: not really amazing reporting from that flight... no news at facebook or homepage...
[14:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/KJ4GQV/index.php?ind=3
[14:44] <adamgreig> pretty sure this is a WW2 hangover
[14:44] <DL1SGP> ah he is back := I know that radiosonde likes forest but for a human payload I still consider it unhealthy
[14:44] <Darkside> still the UK has an astoundinly dense network of repeaters from what i saw when i was last there
[14:44] <gonzo__> there is a reissue of the uk licence cioming up when they flog off 2.3GHz. And that is a good time to be getting any other changes in
[14:44] <gonzo__> listening to the repeaters, dense is the right word!
[14:44] <Darkside> oh are you guys losing that band too?
[14:44] <DL1SGP> Rebounder: agreed on the news-coverage concerning his flight
[14:45] <Darkside> we only hav 2MHz left..
[14:45] <Darkside> 2300-2302
[14:45] <Darkside> or something like that...
[14:45] <Darkside> LTE is going in above it
[14:45] <Rebounder> DL1SGP: alt 0 m, that's very low when on land.. ;)
[14:46] <DL1SGP> Rebounder: In the Netherlands you could go deeper
[14:46] <DL7AD> ^^
[14:46] <PA3WEG> much deeper ;)
[14:46] <gonzo__> think we will keep the bottom 20Meg and there is a 10meg guard band at 2390 we should be able to keep
[14:46] <Darkside> I N C E P T I O N
[14:46] <Darkside> gonzo__: mm better than w got then
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[14:46] <Darkside> are you guys getting th efull 2m band?
[14:47] <Darkside> i heard something about that
[14:47] <PA3WEG> not yet....
[14:47] <radim_OM2AMR_> alt 340m again !
[14:47] <Mik_WD8MNV> wait... is he climbing again??
[14:47] <Darkside> link to tracking?
[14:47] <gonzo__> the main prob I see is that ofcom want to put in a clause that allows them to blanket withdraw all 13cm access if 'the cost of investifgating alledged interference becomes to onerous"
[14:47] <Darkside> :<
[14:47] <Rebounder> Hhttp://aprs.fi/#!mt=hybrid&z=15&call=a%2FKJ4GQV&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[14:47] <DL1SGP> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=hybrid&z=13&call=a%2FKJ4GQV&timerange=172800&tail=3600
[14:47] <Rebounder> minus the H
[14:47] <DL1SGP> :D
[14:48] <gonzo__> so if the telco's just put in false complaints or ofcom want to reduce that cost to zero, we are off
[14:48] <DL1SGP> I guess he did not consider the spot a good location to go down, potentially aims at open water now
[14:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> No the GPS is not that good either it was just loosing signal in the trees!
[14:48] <Darkside> mm thats a pain
[14:48] <chrisstubbs> monster
[14:48] <chrisstubbs> not google
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[14:48] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[14:48] <Darkside> anyways, are you getting 144-148MHz yet?
[14:49] <Darkside> or are you still stuck with 144-146
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[14:49] <gonzo__> he is in a boat, so water would seem the safest landing!
[14:49] <gonzo__> still 144-146
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[14:49] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[14:49] <gonzo__> but trying to get 146-148, not the services are out of there
[14:49] <Darkside> mm
[14:50] <Darkside> whats your 70cm band?
[14:50] <Darkside> we had 420-450, but lost 420-430 at the start of the year
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: extended AA11bb locator looks like 2km grid
[14:53] <Darkside> yeah
[14:53] <Darkside> thats more like what i was thinking
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> 10km rater
[14:53] <Darkside> fine for long distance flights
[14:53] <Darkside> and put altitude in the power field
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> yeah but not
[14:53] <Darkside> just make up a conversion
[14:54] <Darkside> not good for finding it when it lands
[14:54] <eroomde> DF
[14:54] <eroomde> you can DF from within 2km
[14:54] <Darkside> well yeah
[14:54] <Darkside> lol
[14:54] <Darkside> you can df from a bloody lot further than that
[14:54] <Darkside> however
[14:54] <Darkside> 10mw is harder to har when its on the ground
[14:54] <Darkside> and when teh hf antenna is now on the ground
[14:54] <eroomde> no, i clearly meant there's a fundamental physical limit to how far away you can df, when i said that
[14:54] <eroomde> and it's 2km
[14:54] <eroomde> it doesn't work beyond that
[14:54] <Darkside> :P
[14:54] <Darkside> nup
[14:55] <Darkside> definitely not
[14:55] <Darkside> once you go pas that point the magical rf shield kicks in
[14:55] <Darkside> no antenna can penetrate it
[14:55] <Rebounder> Or build another WSPR-like network with sutiable protocol. So there's possibility to send telemetry and so on.
[14:55] <Darkside> however, DFing on HF kind of sucks
[14:55] <Darkside> you have to use loops, which are horribly inefficint
[14:55] <Darkside> anyway
[14:55] <Darkside> thats why you have a 70cm beacon as well as HF
[14:56] <Darkside> i've found DFing a 5W 80m beacon to be far FAR more challenging than DFing a 25mW 70cm beacon from the same distance...
[14:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Looks like he was just cruising above the trees to make a water landing .....
[14:57] <Rebounder> Darkside: Ever radio orienteered? :)
[14:57] <Darkside> i've done ARDF contests
[14:57] <Laurenceb> wtf
[14:57] <Darkside> only on 2m though
[14:57] <Laurenceb> this guy needs to make his mind up
[14:57] <Darkside> only done 80m/10m/6m DF long distance, not close-in stuff
[14:57] <radim_OM2AMR_> he will do a passport control :-)
[14:58] <Rebounder> Darkside: It's called "foxfunting" i Sweden for some reason..
[14:58] <Darkside> Rebounder: called that here too :P
[14:58] <Darkside> ARDF is less confusing though
[14:58] <Darkside> but yeah, we have a 70cm fox that travels around here
[14:58] <Darkside> its actually a modified balloon payload inside it :P
[14:58] <tweetBot> @adamcudworth: There's a blue box in the field... #ukhas http://t.co/pDIKQLJDhP
[14:59] <Darkside> its inside an ammo box, and when yoou find it, you charge it up and put it somewhere else for someone to find
[14:59] Action: DL1SGP won some ARDF Fox-Hunt this year, on other 2 I was 3rd and 2nd :D
[14:59] <Darkside> nice
[14:59] <Darkside> do you guys do car-chase stuff?
[14:59] <DL1SGP> Foot-Hunt
[14:59] <Darkside> ok
[14:59] <Darkside> yeah, we do some foot-hunt stuff
[14:59] <Darkside> but the main contest thats run every year is car based
[15:00] <Darkside> this year we did a balloon launch for the 70cm hunt
[15:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Duh he's going back up again!
[15:00] <Darkside> and didn't tell the hunters it was a balloon
[15:00] <Darkside> or that it was moving
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[15:00] <costyn> Darkside: must have caused some confusion :)
[15:00] <Darkside> it sure did :D
[15:00] <Darkside> hold on
[15:00] <Darkside> i hav a video
[15:00] <Rebounder> Darkside: veil
[15:00] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJnpUvikUac
[15:01] <Darkside> i couldn't slow the animation down any further
[15:01] <Darkside> not in google earth anyway
[15:01] <costyn> Darkside: trololol!
[15:01] <costyn> Darkside: beautiful animation :)
[15:01] <Darkside> that balloon only got to about 4km too :P
[15:02] <Darkside> ascent rate was waaaay too slow
[15:02] <Darkside> had to cut it down early
[15:02] <gonzo__> Darkside, we have 430-440, but with restrictions in the bottom 2 meg
[15:02] <Darkside> ok
[15:02] <gonzo__> and possabilty of losing the top few meg too
[15:03] <gonzo__> it's a shared band and any repeater/beacon licences can take years to get
[15:03] <HixWork> hey costyn hows the sun?
[15:04] <Darkside> ok sleep time for me
[15:04] <Darkside> nn all
[15:05] <LeoBodnar> nn
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[15:05] <DL1SGP> sleep well Darkside
[15:05] <costyn> HixWork: heya... good, a little warm at times. the worst thing about here is the mozzies, for the rest pretty good. it's unfortunate how quickly one gets used to living here and finding things normal. its when you overhear tourists on the beach talk about their hotel and stuff that you realize lots of people pay good money to come and stay a week on the island :)
[15:05] <costyn> Darkside: cya
[15:05] <DL7AD> gn
[15:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Was it a practice landing ?
[15:06] <costyn> maybe he was waving to people on the beach ?
[15:06] <DL1SGP> I hope you get a good share of that money costyn
[15:07] <costyn> DL1SGP: nope, our stay here is mostly paid for by Dutch taxpayer money (my wife works at the Dutch consulate)
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[15:07] <DL1SGP> Heee, leuk! that is even better
[15:08] <costyn> :)
[15:10] <x-f> -407 m altitude
[15:10] <DL1SGP> yeah, he is with the fish
[15:10] <DL1SGP> :D
[15:10] <x-f> you were talking about Netherlands previously? :)
[15:10] <DL1SGP> no about the taxpayers :)
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[15:10] <costyn> x-f: well the kingdom of the netherlands :P I'm living on Curacao :)
[15:10] <DL1SGP> and before that about the Netherlands
[15:10] <x-f> before that
[15:11] <DL1SGP> yeah x-f
[15:11] <x-f> hi, costyn!
[15:11] <costyn> x-f: hiya, sorry I haven't been round much lately
[15:11] <DL1SGP> alt 2692 m
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[15:11] <costyn> climbing pretty fast
[15:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Weird ...
[15:11] <Laurenceb> he changed his mind
[15:12] <costyn> I guess that's why he had so many bags of ballast, to be able to make lots of altitude changes
[15:12] <DL1SGP> yeah. he just had to make sure his first poop-bags land on canadian territory
[15:12] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[15:12] <Mik_WD8MNV> that or his GPS is somewhat flaky?
[15:12] <Rebounder> semms like that
[15:13] <DL1SGP> alt 1069 m
[15:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/PF259090
[15:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you look at the path in detail there are lots or "errors" with significant chnages in position at times
[15:13] <DL1SGP> those changes are a bit too quick, assuming that he did not change hobby and is doing skydiving now
[15:13] <costyn> DL1SGP: haha @ poop bags
[15:14] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/data_brief/DM00094498.pdf
[15:14] <HixWork> I can imagine it is quite weird costyn. I bet it its pretty cool though. Are you working over there or not yet?
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[15:14] <costyn> HixWork: yea still working for my old employer. 5 days a week work from home :P
[15:14] <DL1SGP> https://share.delorme.com/ea79aa8be81346d6bf8159bf95a40f60
[15:15] <HixWork> costyn, grrrr :)
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[15:16] <costyn> hehe
[15:16] <costyn> DL1SGP: interesting
[15:17] <costyn> DL1SGP: looks more reliable than the aprs info
[15:17] <DL1SGP> yes
[15:17] <Rebounder> from the HF beacon?
[15:18] <DL1SGP> no, GPS tracker on another system than HF
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[15:18] <costyn> Rebounder: http://www.inreachdelorme.com/ I asume
[15:19] <DL1SGP> indeed costyn
[15:19] <costyn> anybody know what his planned cruising altitude was going to be?
[15:20] <DL1SGP> unfortunately there is a terrible nothing of information on his website costyn, so no clue
[15:20] <x-f> 3-5 km i think
[15:21] <costyn> x-f: he went up to 6.7km at one point. Not a very nice place to be
[15:21] <DL1SGP> yeah in that range, also depends on wind situation in different layers, but he should not go over 5500m for too long
[15:21] <costyn> maybe his ascent was too fast and he slowed it down too much and descended back
[15:21] <DL1SGP> costyn: not healthy either, but we do not know what kind of equipment he has for getting into rough conditions
[15:21] <costyn> but he has a fair bit of experience with his craft, can't imagine he'd jojo like that
[15:22] <x-f> [07:33] <wb8elk> probably ranging from 1500m to 5500m
[15:22] <Babs> has anyone told him to keep an eye out for B-11/B-12?
[15:22] <costyn> DL1SGP: nope... staying at 4K for longer than 15 minutes is already onset of hypoxia
[15:23] <DL1SGP> costyn: especially as he had no way to get used to the thin air like the mountain climbers in himalaya do
[15:23] <Babs> who were those two dudes who tried and failed and went missing in the 70s/80s? SOmeone recommended a book about them
[15:23] <costyn> DL1SGP: yep
[15:23] <HixWork> depending on his ascent rate, and acclimatisation he shoule be good for 5500m for pretty long periods. Everest BC is >5100m and people are there for >3months.
[15:23] <Babs> I realise that that is a bit vague, but you are bright guys
[15:24] <costyn> HixWork: but that's with acclimatization
[15:24] <costyn> HixWork: he's had no time to generate extra red blood cells
[15:25] <HixWork> i did put that caveat. you never know, h emay have spent some time acclimatising in the mountains to prepare, or have supplementary O2
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[15:25] <DL1SGP> maybe he uses some technology developed during "Tour de France" :)
[15:25] <costyn> I have to assume he's carrying enough oxygen for long periods of time, otherwise he'd be very limited in his altitude range
[15:25] <enkidu> costyn: he might used either low pressure training room or transfusion of own blood ;)
[15:26] <enkidu> on such distance you cannot rely only on bottled oxygen
[15:26] <HixWork> I've spent multiple days at 4000m with only 1 day to acclimatise
[15:26] <costyn> HixWork: ow...what were you doing?
[15:26] <costyn> enkidu: could be
[15:26] <costyn> enkidu: sounds expensive :) especially that room
[15:27] <enkidu> not really expensive
[15:27] <HixWork> having fun in the alps costyn :)
[15:27] <enkidu> also you can be training in room with low pressure of oxygen, it is availaible nearly for everyone
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[15:28] <costyn> enkidu: ok, I guess it doesn't have to be a vacuum chamber, just one with less oxygen than normal
[15:28] <costyn> HixWork: cool
[15:29] <HixWork> hypobaric chambers are used for research
[15:29] <enkidu> you can use CO2 or nitrogen bottle to lower oxygen pressure
[15:29] <gonzo__> been in that situation, a room with little ventliation. Was like having a hangover after working in there for a few hrs
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[15:29] <Laurenceb> costyn: otherwise hed be dead already
[15:29] <costyn> Laurenceb: likely yes
[15:29] <Laurenceb> 23kft
[15:29] <Laurenceb> wtf
[15:29] <enkidu> also he is not exercising there
[15:30] <enkidu> so he dont need much oxygen
[15:30] <costyn> Laurenceb: well maybe not dead, but passed out in any case
[15:30] <HixWork> there have been tests done on mountaineers in the himalaya at alt. their SATS would have them marked as dead in an ER theatre
[15:30] <DL1SGP> at :27 the delorme alt was 6603ft whereas APRS was 6447ft
[15:31] <enkidu> on ER i would be marked dead in normal case. 5 breaths per minute, 35 heart beats
[15:31] <HixWork> when you think about it a long haul flight has you at ~2300m for sometimes 24 hours with very little detrimental effect
[15:31] <DL1SGP> his equipment might have flown on a NASA Mars mission, oh wait the issue there was unit conversion
[15:31] <HixWork> and that can be from MSL
[15:32] <costyn> enkidu: check out this video of skydivers with hypoxia.. they're also not doing any exercise but the oxygen system had failed for the passengers (pilot had a separate system): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa4w4aYKEk they're hypoxic after only 10 minutes above 4km
[15:32] <gonzo__> conspitacy theory, you think this flight may have been faked?
[15:32] <costyn> enkidu: it becomes evident later in the vdieo as people are struggling to get to the door
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[15:33] <enkidu> people in stressful situations are more vulnerable to hypoxia
[15:34] <costyn> enkidu: yes, and they would've been stressed. going to 21kft is not your average skydive
[15:34] <Babs> travelling in an open lifeboat which, if he does go down, will be hundreds of miles from land and being dragged across an open sea at about 3 degrees celsius, I think hypoxia is probably the least probable cause of death of many
[15:35] <Babs> i tell you though, if he does make it an survive he will be a modern day hero. exploration is too safe these days.
[15:35] <costyn> are his balloons going to last longer than our 40KM floaters because of less UV and less pressure in them I guess?
[15:36] <gonzo__> or, nutter, as we call them
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[15:37] <HixWork> mad video costyn. the effect would be more marked as they had a system which seemed to fail, so they would be dropped straight into the situation. you can adapt fairly quickly, just not that quick :)
[15:38] <gonzo__> what's his estimated flight time btw?
[15:38] <costyn> HixWork: well it was weird, they had no idea; they felt like they were drunk. one guy actually passed out in freefall and woke up at like 3k, still enough time to deploy
[15:38] <x-f> 66 hours, iirc
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[15:40] <HixWork> costyn they have done tests in the RAF in a hypobaric chamber - pilots would be rolling around laughing not noticing and certainly not giving a shit, I've heard tales of pilots coming round as they have descended afer passing out too
[15:40] <DL1SGP> HABE Chasecar has not moved in a while, are they still hunting in the fields there?
[15:40] <costyn> HixWork: yea, sorry I meant they were actiing drunk but feeling just fine
[15:41] <costyn> HixWork: and yea, somewhere in the video is a guy laughing his ass off too
[15:41] <HixWork> there are some papers on this site about altitude effects, they did some mad tests a few years back, one was an excercies bike at something like 6500m :) http://www.xtreme-everest.co.uk/article.php?newsid=66
[15:41] <HixWork> would be interesting to measure o2 levels in a HAB to see if there are differing bands
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[15:42] <costyn> yea has no one sent up gas meters yet? o2, co2?
[15:43] <g4sgx-iain> So he didnt just jump of then? he he
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[15:44] <gonzo__> I am assuming that the HABchase don't have an rx with decode onboard, or we would be seeing updates
[15:44] <HixWork> is the o2 ext linear with absolute pressure in the air?
[15:46] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[15:46] <x-f> i assume HABE has been recovered - https://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/378170865013121024
[15:47] <Laurenceb> hmm good point
[15:47] <Laurenceb> maybe he bailed out
[15:47] <Laurenceb> and the balloons are free floating
[15:48] <craag> gonzo__: It may be a lack of internet
[15:48] <gonzo__> a quick google suggests that the O2 % stays constant
[15:48] <gonzo__> craag, I did think that, but they did get a chase car app update
[15:49] <craag> (chasecar tracker is probably on a seperate machine)
[15:49] <DL1SGP> thanks x-f
[15:49] <gonzo__> craag, true, and not a recent update
[15:50] <DL1SGP> ok I gonna get ready for a club meeting tonight. one item of agenda is the balloon project for 2014
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[15:50] <HixWork> costyn dunno if you can make it out, but there was a big ole avalanche a few years back, bit unnerving to say the least http://goo.gl/E5AVBl
[15:50] <WillTablet> Hi
[15:50] <costyn> HixWork: wow
[15:51] <HixWork> new trousers please :D
[15:51] <costyn> yea
[15:51] <costyn> but looks like you were far away enough?
[15:51] <HixWork> and a large dose of paranoia after
[15:51] <costyn> heh yea
[15:52] <costyn> what was the sound like?
[15:52] <HixWork> yeah, we were, but you never know what part of a mountian is going to give up next. LOUD and scary
[15:52] <HixWork> but quite cool in a weird way
[15:53] <WillTablet> HixWork you seem to be at work too much ...
[15:54] <costyn> WillTablet: and spending a lot of time on IRC at work :P
[15:54] <WillTablet> I've almost never seen you with the nickname Hix
[15:54] <WillTablet> I cou
[15:54] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[15:55] <WillTablet> ld get onto irc at school. I reinstalled the os though and cba to faf with it.
[15:55] <WillTablet> (On my server)
[15:56] <HixWork> you are on in normal work time WillTablet
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[15:56] <WillTablet> I guess,
[15:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Looks like Trapper was just waving at the beach! Seems a waste of ballast and balloons however to have dipped like that ...
[15:59] <g4sgx-iain> Or he bailed, was only on land a few mins if that
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[16:03] <Laurenceb> atm clusterballon guy is on his way to the nearest canadian airport
[16:03] <Laurenceb> he'll get on the next flight to ireland
[16:03] <WillTablet> Hi Laurenceb
[16:03] <Laurenceb> then the balloon will make an odd descent at the irsh coast....
[16:04] <g4sgx-iain> What, then disappear of aprs then re-appear bit down the coast? Surely not! :)
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[16:06] <HixWork> where are the updates on Trappe coming from? spacenear not really much help on the flight it seems
[16:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKJ4GQV&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[16:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The GPS has frequent errors like a few seconds ago it put his flight back several a distance
[16:09] <HixWork> cheers Geoff-G8DHE
[16:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/KJ4GQV/index.php?ind=7
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[16:21] <enkidu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15212_trj001.gif - B11 isentropic
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[16:26] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: where is the webpage link you are generating reports from? I can only find HySplit
[16:26] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: hysplit- archive trajectory
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[16:30] <g4sgx-iain> so close $$NG0X,45,16:29:59,4738.1,(3352.:3,r978,118.3,!66C
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[16:30] <g4sgx-iain> not
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[16:32] <g4sgx-iain> On my K3, freq=14.095600 and mark is 1772 Hz dead.
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[16:33] <LeoBodnar> thanks enkidu
[16:33] <wb8elk> Getting great decodes from the HF transmitter at times: $$NG0X,44,16:19:59,4735.43,-06401.17,3952,12,8.58,39*67
[16:35] <wb8elk> About 1500 miles from me at the moment.
[16:36] <g4sgx-iain> I hope to have him this time..
[16:36] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how he failed to know that was where Algeria was.
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> maybe they moved it, to confuse me.
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[16:37] <LeoBodnar> this is what I get with isobaric model http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15430_trj001.gif
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> What is isentropic.
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> i mean - 'same entropy' - but what does that mean
[16:38] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: with isobaric yes
[16:39] <enkidu> SpeedEvil: virtual temperature of particle
[16:39] <enkidu> erm, potential temp
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[16:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi. Does anyone know how much power NG0X is running?
[16:43] <Laurenceb> its hard to say what B-11 will do
[16:43] <Laurenceb> might cross crete tomorrow or saturaday if its still up
[16:43] <Laurenceb> but there seems to be a long spread of times
[16:43] <LeoBodnar> Balloon's gotta do what balloon's gotta do.
[16:44] <sv1iw> wb8elk Hi what frq is it beaconing?
[16:44] <g4sgx-iain> Seems to be floating @ 5000ft. Odd.
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[16:49] <kc9doa> bye
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[16:55] <LeoBodnar> home time, see you later!
[16:55] LeoBodnar (5685d3d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.133.211.209) left irc:
[16:57] <DL7AD> how does it come that b-12 was lost over ukraine but heared last time from SV5DKL (spacenear.us)
[16:58] <enkidu> DL7AD: mp3 sample
[17:00] <Rebounder> wb8elk: your qth? i'll go and start my hf receiver.. :)
[17:00] <DL7AD> but it never flew in greec, wasnt it?
[17:00] <enkidu> it was heading east
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[17:01] <DL7AD> but greece is south
[17:02] <nats`> back
[17:02] <nats`> enkidu half of the board is assembled
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[17:02] <enkidu> nice
[17:03] <nats`> I have a problem
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[17:03] <enkidu> what kind of?
[17:03] <nats`> the 3.3V is here but some chip are really hot
[17:03] <enkidu> show circuit
[17:03] <nats`> seems that some STM32 have this problem
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[17:03] <enkidu> they shouldnt be
[17:03] <nats`> on a forum they have it and nobody seems to know why
[17:04] <enkidu> maybe its due to frequency, or some pins are acting as current source/drain
[17:04] <nats`> following the datasheet all pin are Z at startup
[17:04] <nats`> and even with that I never tie pin directly to rail
[17:04] <nats`> the quartz don't even start
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[17:05] <nats`> I'll do some more investigation
[17:06] <wb8elk> I'm in Alabama....the balloon is approaching Newfoundland, Canada on its way to Europe.
[17:06] <wb8elk> 14.0956 MHz USB
[17:06] <nats`> the real problem is I can clearly burn the PCB because my DC handles 3A at 3.3V
[17:06] <sv1iw> DL7AD Hi Sven, SV5DKL palyed back the you tube recording to his system by mistake,,,
[17:06] <wb8elk> at 00, 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 minute marks. Two 110 baud RTTY transmissions.
[17:06] <cuddykid> thanks all for tracking earlier - very successful launch :)
[17:06] <nats`> I think I'll add a limiter and link an external psu
[17:06] <g4sgx-iain> He is very low though 1000ft
[17:07] <wb8elk> about 1850 Hz in the waterfall display if you tune 14.0956 MHz USB...just above the WSPR segment.
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[17:07] <DL7AD> sv1iw ah okay :D
[17:07] <DL7AD> sv1iw thanks for explaination
[17:07] <g4sgx-iain> oop, back up to 3000, must be aprs error
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[17:08] <sv1iw> wb8elk what is the shift of the rtty beacon?
[17:08] <DL7AD> sv1iw got any new contact? this is the new hysplit model: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA.gif
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[17:09] <g4sgx-iain> abt 170-180
[17:10] Action: enkidu thinks, if there is much difference between ne602an and e612an
[17:10] <sv1iw> DL7AD No Sven nothing heard so far
[17:11] <nats`> nop enkidu
[17:11] <nats`> the 612 is the successor
[17:11] <nats`> if i'm not wrong today it's a sa612
[17:11] <nats`> you 'll not found ne anymore
[17:11] <enkidu> just as I thought
[17:11] <nats`> you talk about the mixer right ?
[17:11] <enkidu> yeah
[17:12] <nats`> I used them with no problem
[17:12] <enkidu> I got old pal modulator from cable tv frontend
[17:12] <nats`> check SA612 you'll find it more easily
[17:12] <nats`> farnell and mouser have some
[17:12] <enkidu> philips ne612AN in the middle of it
[17:12] <enkidu> much faster way than ordering
[17:13] <nats`> I had an idea some month ago fetching all the components I have for RF and make a public list to help
[17:13] <nats`> I think for some part like exotic BJT/FET that could be helpfull to the community to have some sort of public stocl
[17:13] <nats`> stock
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[17:15] <enkidu> still I have to find ~470khz oscillator
[17:15] <nats`> 475 ?
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Seek within yourself, and you will find it.
[17:15] <enkidu> :>
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Or is that the force.
[17:16] <nats`> :D
[17:16] <nats`> I'm not sure we are talking about electronics here :D
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[17:19] <eroomde> what's up?
[17:20] <eroomde> or down or landed
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[17:21] <enkidu> sp3osj is up
[17:21] <enkidu> 303m
[17:23] <nats`> no one sells an used binocular ?
[17:24] <eroomde> off topic but related o this topic
[17:24] <eroomde> modern binoculars are amazing
[17:24] <eroomde> i had a go recently with some canon image stabilising ones
[17:24] <eroomde> they're incredible!
[17:24] <nats`> I mean for soldering :)
[17:24] <Willdude123> Hi eroomde
[17:24] <eroomde> i have no particular need for binoculars but now i'd really like some
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[17:24] <nats`> but yes the ones to see far away are pretty cool
[17:24] <enkidu> we are multidisciplinary
[17:25] <eroomde> yo Willdude123
[17:25] <Willdude123> yo.
[17:25] <enkidu> electronics, physics, meteo, chemistry, programming
[17:25] <eroomde> yep
[17:25] <eroomde> it's a broad church in HAB
[17:25] <nats`> I don't know many technical hobby nbot involving many disciplin :)
[17:25] <eroomde> and yes stereo microscopes are really useful too
[17:26] <Willdude123> eroomde, a broad church or a broad Church?
[17:26] <nats`> Willdude123 what's the difference ?
[17:26] <enkidu> time for tuning itno sp3osj
[17:26] <eroomde> Willdude123: I have no idea
[17:26] <enkidu> possibly out of range, but clouds can give propagation
[17:27] <Willdude123> nats`, should've gone to Catholic (or catholic) school. Then you'd understand the difference.
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[17:27] <nats`> .... I'm french and don't speak english very well so maybe it's only in your language....
[17:27] <nats`> anyway don't mind I'll find
[17:27] <Willdude123> Church is the organization. church is the building. Catholic is that organization that got into a bit of trouble for child abuse. catholic is an adjective
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[17:28] <eroomde> i'm glad i've never needed to know the distinction
[17:28] <nats`> ......
[17:28] <nats`> it's me or you smell a little "pedantic"
[17:29] <adamgreig> a church doesn't have to be a building
[17:30] <adamgreig> The Church is an organisation, but "a broad church" could mean a physically large church building or a wide metaphorical organisation that isn't the organised religious one
[17:30] <Willdude123> nats`, It's you
[17:30] <Willdude123> Yes what does it mean eroomde
[17:30] <eroomde> i meant something that needed lots of bricks
[17:31] <adamgreig> nice metaphor
[17:31] <Willdude123> HAB needs a lot of bricks?
[17:31] <adamgreig> a lot of Standard Bricks
[17:31] <adamgreig> hang on, I have a demonstration
[17:31] <eroomde> i try
[17:31] <Willdude123> Except HAB is a hobby, or a community, not a building
[17:31] <enkidu> seems that sp3osj will be low altitude floater ;)
[17:31] <adamgreig> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/hvm2rjajzyev1nd/_t5Gs0Z1KW
[17:32] <eroomde> i said lots of bricks Willdude123
[17:32] <eroomde> not lots of Bricks
[17:32] <enkidu> 804m, 1m/s
[17:32] <adamgreig> but sometimes you need bricks too huh eroomde ^
[17:32] Action: Willdude123 gives in
[17:32] <fsphil> anyone still keeping an ear out for B-1x?
[17:32] <Willdude123> But yeah never go to a Catholic school
[17:32] <enkidu> fsphil: b11 too far south, b12 too far east
[17:32] <eroomde> where did you find that adamgreig ?
[17:33] <adamgreig> my dropbox folder
[17:33] <adamgreig> where do you think
[17:33] <adamgreig> given the photo appears to include a paintbrush and some lovely blue carpet tiles
[17:33] <Willdude123> I really can't wait till relationships day. I need really good arguments against far-right Catholic beliefs.
[17:34] <enkidu> DL7AD: low altitude balloon approachng ;)
[17:34] <PE2G> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/16173_trj001.gif
[17:36] <enkidu> dont know exact height it may climb to
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[17:38] <enkidu> weather is not really good today - rainfalls
[17:40] <LeoBodnar> I think OSJ said its around 20 grams
[17:40] <enkidu> battery dropping fast
[17:40] <enkidu> too fast
[17:40] <Laurenceb> looks like clusterballoon crashed?
[17:41] <g4sgx-iain> nope, other tracker say gone up again
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> If it's about 20grams then it should float first night at a bout 5000m
[17:43] <LeoBodnar> What battery is that?
[17:45] <DL7AD> enkidu how? where?
[17:45] <enkidu> DL7AD: SP3OSJ launched his tracker today
[17:45] <g4sgx-iain> he he. DQRM on 20M forgot he had cw ident on. lol
[17:45] <DL7AD> enkidu oh okay....
[17:46] <DL7AD> have to set up my rx
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[17:48] <LeoBodnar> Is DQRM a sort of intentional jammer?
[17:49] <g4sgx-iain> yep, deliberate init
[17:49] YU1TTN (b2946625@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.148.102.37) joined #highaltitude.
[17:50] <YU1TTN> hello everyone
[17:50] <x-f> hi, YU1TTN
[17:50] <g4sgx-iain> He must be up, his trace is getting better, still no decode though for me
[17:50] <YU1TTN> can someone give me a link where I can see equipment of SP3OSJ
[17:51] <DL7AD> enkidu which frequency?
[17:51] <enkidu> 437.7
[17:52] <enkidu> ssb, rtty 50baud
[17:52] <enkidu> 470 Hz Shift 7N2
[17:53] <fsphil> oh, ng0x still going?
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[17:54] <g4sgx-iain> Hard to say, APRS has failed to give good height, but one o the satellite trackers says back up to 9000ft
[17:54] <g4sgx-iain> And HF sig is slowly improving, could be the greylinbe though
[17:55] <g4sgx-iain> Getting dusk here
[17:55] <YU1TTN> pls can someone write all the freqs for SP3OSJ?
[17:55] M0TFO (4d6473ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.100.115.173) joined #highaltitude.
[17:56] <x-f> YU1TTN, look what enkidu just wrote, those are for SP3OSJ
[17:57] <YU1TTN> ok x-f
[17:57] <M0TFO> evening all, my APRS is showing him down,but NG0X still flting, any updates?
[17:57] <x-f> and he hasn't given us a link about his balloons
[17:57] <M0TFO> flying that is
[17:59] eroomde (~ed@94.197.120.123.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[17:59] <eroomde> ping
[17:59] <adamgreig> pong?
[17:59] <fsphil> baplow?
[17:59] <eroomde> flakey socks proxy
[17:59] <eroomde> on the bus connected through phone
[17:59] <fsphil> ah
[18:00] <eroomde> carrier stops me tethering
[18:00] <g4sgx-iain> Oh so close. NG0X on HF is definately coming up
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[18:01] <Willdude123> eroomde, why?
[18:01] <eroomde> because i don't pay them extra on my contract
[18:01] <eroomde> which i think is silly
[18:01] <M0TFO> you hearing him G4SGX ?
[18:01] <g4sgx-iain> Yep
[18:02] <Willdude123> Also how?
[18:02] <M0TFO> Nice might go and have a tune!
[18:02] <Willdude123> How do they stop you?
[18:02] <eroomde> Willdude123: so they scan my traffic if i set my phone us as a hotspot
[18:02] <g4sgx-iain> Not decoding yet though but im sure with a beam on a mast would be no problem
[18:02] <Willdude123> I could always set up a wifi network on android, no probs
[18:02] <eroomde> and see it wants desktop-browser sized things
[18:02] <eroomde> and instead block me saying 'it looks like you're using your phone as a hotspot' etc
[18:02] <Willdude123> Ah that sucks
[18:03] <YU1TTN> I tried few WebSDRs from Germany but nothing picked up @ 437.7
[18:03] <M0TFO> whats the mode rtty?
[18:03] <eroomde> so i just set up an ssh connection to a remote server on my laptop
[18:03] <eroomde> and tunnel all my internet traffic through that
[18:03] <Willdude123> Ah good idea.
[18:03] <enkidu> YU1TTN: might be still too low
[18:03] <eroomde> it's encrypted so the phone carrier can't see that it's desktop stuff
[18:03] <Willdude123> I used that for getting around norton safety minder.
[18:03] <YU1TTN> prob... enkidu is there any HF tx in ballon?
[18:04] <DL7AD> enkidu okay. my rig is running. but cant hear the balloon yet
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[18:04] <g4sgx-iain> 110 Baud ASCII RTTY 8-bits no parity 1 stop bit: Call: NG0X Multi-Mode transmitter will transmit at 10 minute intervals at: 00, 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 minutes. Frequency on 20m is: 14.0956 MHz just above the WSPR frequency (approx 1880 Hz in the waterfall display).
[18:04] <M0TFO> cheers will take a look now
[18:04] <g4sgx-iain> MArk on mine is 1720 Hz
[18:05] <DL7AD> enkidu how much power does it have?
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> What antenna is on NG0X
[18:05] <enkidu> seems that 10mw
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[18:06] <LeoBodnar> ping NG0X: what antenna do you use?
[18:06] <M0TFO> an A$S lol
[18:06] <M0TFO> A4S
[18:07] <enkidu> I should be in range now, but I got this direction covered
[18:07] LU8DQ (c8725512@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.114.85.18) joined #highaltitude.
[18:08] <YU1TTN> some tone burst @ 14095.6
[18:08] <g4sgx-iain> thats wspr
[18:08] <M0TFO> yeah Ive got them to/
[18:08] <g4sgx-iain> slightly altering rew by not a lot if you watch
[18:08] <YU1TTN> qsl
[18:08] <sv1iw> Do we know the shift of NG0X?
[18:08] <g4sgx-iain> *freq
[18:09] <M0TFO> 14.095.6
[18:09] <x-f> sv1iw, 170 Hz
[18:09] <eroomde> Upu: am on the way to St John
[18:09] <eroomde> the holy land
[18:09] <sv1iw> x-f Tnx the typical shift, ok got a second system on him
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[18:10] <g4sgx-iain> here we go
[18:10] <g4sgx-iain> nope, its drfited up a bit and was weak
[18:10] <M0TFO> same here !
[18:14] <M0TFO> is it reversed or normal?
[18:14] <g4sgx-iain> normal usb
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[18:15] <Chetic> I connect sdr# to dl-fldigi through audio cable and the frequency of the carrier signal seems to slowly go up and down in a smooth fashion
[18:15] <M0TFO> No i mean the RTTY
[18:15] <Chetic> but in sdr# it stays straight
[18:15] <Chetic> what am I doing wrong?
[18:16] <x-f> Chetic, why are you not using a virtual audio cable instead of a physical one?
[18:16] <Chetic> because I've been having enough software problems for a lifetime trying to get these two to start :p
[18:17] <Chetic> just wanted to test
[18:17] <enkidu> fucking pulseaudio started itsel
[18:17] <eroomde> beat frequency caused by injection lock between your sdr's crystal and a harmonic of your mains
[18:17] <eroomde> that'll be the cause
[18:19] <Chetic> wait so if I...
[18:19] <Chetic> only run on battery?
[18:20] <Chetic> that is cool.
[18:20] Martin_G4FUI (~Martin@88-96-185-86.dsl.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:20] <M0TFO> ah nice and strong that time
[18:20] <Chetic> I'll ask the hardware guys about that at breakfast tomorrow if you don't feel like explaining :p
[18:20] <eroomde> i was being silly Chetic
[18:20] <Chetic> lol what
[18:20] <Chetic> but it worked
[18:20] <eroomde> i have no idea what the cause is
[18:20] <Chetic> lol
[18:21] <eroomde> was just going for something wild that had long words
[18:21] <Chetic> thought it sounded a bit iffy
[18:21] <eroomde> i'm looking at the wine list of a restaurant i'm about to go to
[18:21] <eroomde> and feeling silly to get me in the mood
[18:21] <adamgreig> haha
[18:21] <g4sgx-iain> Better trace, still no decode. Shame its not 50 Baud. At 110 Baud the filter needs to be wider i thought
[18:21] <eroomde> & in the mood for london restaurant wine prices
[18:21] <adamgreig> yea...
[18:22] <adamgreig> in the mood for how silly you'll feel handing over the cash
[18:22] <adamgreig> god
[18:22] <nats`> ok I'm lost
[18:22] <nats`> no short circuit
[18:22] <eroomde> plastic
[18:22] <adamgreig> I was at a place once where the cheapest bottle was £40 and nothing came by glass
[18:22] <eroomde> definitely a plastic evening
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> eroomde have I seen you using Dirac bra-ket notation or am I dreaming?
[18:22] <M0TFO> same here Iain
[18:22] <nats`> the cpu starts correctly at 10mA
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> earlier today
[18:22] AD-HOC_ (babcbd35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.188.189.53) joined #highaltitude.
[18:22] <nats`> and ramp up to 500mA
[18:22] <nats`> in 10s
[18:22] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: possibly - what is it?
[18:22] <LU8DQ> Adito's!
[18:22] <eroomde> adamgreig: yeah, am looking at at least that too
[18:22] <AD-HOC_> Guigui
[18:23] <eroomde> there's a local wine (to my french side) that is nice
[18:23] <x-f> Clusterballoonman has climbed up to 7 km altitude again :|
[18:23] <eroomde> that might go for
[18:23] <adamgreig> there was only one wine at £40, then £90, then triple digits
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> <a|b>
[18:23] <adamgreig> and before you know it, £4000 a bottle
[18:23] <nats`> oO
[18:23] <eroomde> also my uncle's experiment with sweet wine from alight (usually mineral and refreshing) that they happen to sell
[18:23] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: probably not
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> Quantum mechanics
[18:23] <eroomde> i do use | a lot though
[18:23] <nats`> I know only few bottle of wine exceding 5000euros
[18:23] <eroomde> to mean 'given'
[18:23] <eroomde> stats notation
[18:23] <nats`> and they are no so good
[18:24] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: it's also used for any dot notation it seems
[18:24] <eroomde> p(a|b) - the probability of a given b
[18:24] <nats`> I mean you have other wine in the same area good too
[18:24] <adamgreig> a few of my lecturers use <a,b> to mean a.b
[18:24] <adamgreig> which bugs me no end
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> dot product of two quantum states
[18:24] <eroomde> nats`: i think they're mostly for chinese businessmen
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> Ah, wrong class, sorry gov
[18:24] <Chetic> which should I pick out of WFM, USB, LSB, NFM etc
[18:24] <nats`> uhhmm could be understood I drank some alcohol and "wine" from china...
[18:25] <eroomde> where i'm from (burgundy) they've mostly stayed under the fart-east radar
[18:25] <eroomde> and also the patchwork structure stops huge monoculture brands from emerging
[18:25] <eroomde> which is good
[18:25] <g4sgx-iain> It started of so well.. $N0X,56382ZFs**n]µÍhyYoo{$
[18:25] <eroomde> no Chateux Lafite for ££££££
[18:25] <nats`> Romanet conti :)
[18:26] <eroomde> there's never enough quantity of a single given thing for it to appear on the radar of a market that big
[18:26] <eroomde> well yeah, there is that
[18:26] <eroomde> but there's still only like a couple of hectares of that
[18:26] <nats`> yep and they sell bottle with other wine in a box
[18:26] Tramvai (50eb2c78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.235.44.120) joined #highaltitude.
[18:26] <nats`> some box exceed 10keuros
[18:27] <nats`> but that's stupid to spend so much you take some wine like von romanet and they are good too
[18:27] <nats`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman%C3%A9e-Conti
[18:27] <eroomde> wikipedia
[18:27] <eroomde> 3 bottles of the 1990 vintage were sold for US$72,000 in 2013.
[18:27] <eroomde> yes it's retarded
[18:27] <nats`> In October 2010, 77 bottles sold for a total of US$750,609 at auction; 3 bottles of the 1990 vintage were sold for US$72,000 in 2013. [1]
[18:27] <nats`> yep :D
[18:27] <eroomde> again will be clueless chinese businessmen
[18:27] <eroomde> not realising that you can get stuff just as good if you're willing to look for normal monies
[18:27] <adamgreig> do they even drink that
[18:27] <adamgreig> or just look at it
[18:27] <Chetic> is there a complete guide to dl-fldigi + sdr# somewhere?
[18:27] <nats`> adamgreig I hope not
[18:28] <Chetic> there are so many parameters I don't know what they mean
[18:28] <nats`> yes Chetic I used the one on the ukhas website
[18:28] <nats`> :)
[18:28] <eroomde> especially the reds a bit south where i'm from. stuff near Corton
[18:28] <nats`> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[18:28] <DL7AD> how much power does the SP3OSJ have ?
[18:28] <Tramvai> I have a few questions regarding the construction of the payload antenna. Would this wire be fine for the radials? https://www.dropbox.com/s/61jgc7r8o86id2u/2013-09-12%2014.35.30.jpg It's a braided wire
[18:29] <eroomde> Tramvai: yes absolutely
[18:29] <nats`> eroomde if you come to france you're welcomed for food and wine :)
[18:29] <Chetic> thanks nats` I'll give it another try
[18:29] <enkidu> DL7AD: from my knowledge it is 10mw
[18:29] Wolfie_ (b891583d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.88.61) joined #highaltitude.
[18:29] <Tramvai> Thanks, eroomde!
[18:29] <eroomde> it's common to provide some kind of reinforcement too, so for example taping to a thickish cabletie
[18:29] <nats`> chetic for the virtual audio cable there is a better 'freeware' software
[18:29] <nats`> let me find again the name
[18:29] <eroomde> to be flexible but holding it straight
[18:29] <eroomde> nats`: thanks!
[18:29] <eroomde> i love both :)
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> "It is common among physicists to use the same symbol for labels and constants in the same equation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braket_notation
[18:30] <eroomde> i come to france usually once a twice a year for holidays, what with family there
[18:30] <adamgreig> lol physicists
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> Lol secret handshake
[18:30] <Tramvai> Another question: would this tactic work for connecting the braided shielding to the radials: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mtxi2fqzhigu7dj/2013-09-12%2015.50.20.jpg ?
[18:30] <eroomde> we have a family house in savigny-les-beaune
[18:30] <nats`> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2013/05/04/free-virtual-audio-cable-alternative/
[18:30] <nats`> Chetic take this one
[18:30] <nats`> the other the demo version says "TRIAL" everytime screwing all your capture
[18:30] <eroomde> Tramvai: yes, that looks like you've done a nice job of that splice
[18:30] <eroomde> i'd be inclined to re-enforce with solder
[18:30] <Tramvai> Unfortunately, we failed to make it work.
[18:31] <eroomde> really?
[18:31] <M0TFO> Nothing this time!
[18:31] <Tramvai> It might've been our makeshift connector fault, as we haven't received the proper SMA input yet for the Arduino part
[18:31] <nats`> can I edit the sdr# guide to add the link to the freeware for virtual audio jack
[18:31] <eroomde> indeed. that photo of the antenna end looks well made. would be surprised if there was a problem there
[18:32] <eroomde> whereas putting SMAs on coax can take a bit of practice
[18:32] <eroomde> and is fiddly regardless
[18:32] <Tramvai> That's how we tested it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2c3bdw29aipv8ea/2013-09-12%2015.34.25.jpg
[18:32] <eroomde> nats`: of course!
[18:32] <DL7AD> enkidu do you receive the balloon?
[18:33] <eroomde> Tramvai: looks solid. but you could;t receive the signal from it?
[18:33] Boggle (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:33] <Tramvai> Unfortunately not.
[18:33] <Tramvai> One likely cause would be the way we connected it to the breadboard.
[18:33] <eroomde> you should be able, if the receiver is in the same room as the tx, to hear it even without an antenna
[18:33] <Tramvai> Well, not breadboard, the NTX2.
[18:34] <eroomde> so i'd try without antenna and see what happens
[18:34] <Tramvai> Yeah, I know
[18:34] <Tramvai> We tried it without the antenna for a while, till we built one
[18:34] <enkidu> DL7AD: I got directional antenna covering only northeast-southeast region
[18:34] <eroomde> it could be the antenna has a short - easy enough to check with a meter - or if you can't hear it without an antenna attached still then yes it's likely to be an ntx2 issue
[18:34] <eroomde> as you say
[18:34] <Tramvai> After attaching the antenna, the signal was still very weak and there was none coming from the antenna itsself.
[18:35] <eroomde> sounds suspiciously like an ntx2/breadboard issue then
[18:35] <nats`> eroomde it seems I can't edit the page
[18:35] <nats`> This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong.
[18:35] <DL7AD> enkidu okay i cant hear it either
[18:35] <Tramvai> I'm fairly sure it's the way we made the connection to the NTX2.
[18:36] <DL7AD> enkidu but its currently under my horizon
[18:36] <DL7AD> .
[18:36] <eroomde> ah i think we might have added sign-up approvals
[18:36] <DL7AD> .d
[18:36] <eroomde> to stop spam
[18:36] <eroomde> i'm a bit out of the loop on that
[18:36] <eroomde> upu or adamgreig might know
[18:36] <nats`> ohhh oky
[18:36] <adamgreig> nats`: are you signed in?
[18:36] <nats`> yep
[18:36] <nats`> as natsfr
[18:36] <enkidu> I could try omniderectional one, but I am afraid it wont work either
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[18:36] <adamgreig> okay
[18:36] <adamgreig> should be good now
[18:37] <Tramvai> eroomde: That's the makeshift connector: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4rok10kaovb5nx/2013-09-12%2015.51.02.jpg
[18:37] <adamgreig> Tramvai: ah, innovative but definitely not ideal
[18:37] <eroomde> yeah that could well be causing you issues :)
[18:37] <adamgreig> the NTX2 is on a breadboard right now?
[18:37] <nats`> ok that works :)
[18:37] <adamgreig> you could just stick a 16cm piece of wire into the breadboard socket
[18:38] <eroomde> i would still think though that even attaching a bit of wet spaghetti to an sma should make it loud and clear in the same oroom
[18:38] <adamgreig> I'd love to try that
[18:38] <adamgreig> it would remind me too much of that commercial antenna designed by the EMC guy actually eroomde
[18:38] Rob_ (4d6473ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.100.115.173) joined #highaltitude.
[18:38] <eroomde> lol
[18:38] <adamgreig> looked like http://randomskk.net/u/sad_antenna.png
[18:38] <eroomde> the astrium one?
[18:38] <adamgreig> I wasn't gonna name names but yes
[18:38] <adamgreig> that was awful
[18:38] <Tramvai> We don't have the SMA female jack for the Arduino yet, so we just built something using female-to-male breadboard jumpers
[18:38] <eroomde> i was rather surprised i must say
[18:38] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488AA2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:38] <adamgreig> that whole morning was a bit of a disaster
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> awesome news about Voyager 1
[18:39] <eroomde> what news Lunar_Lander ?
[18:39] <Chetic> did it exit the solar system for the umpteenth time?
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> interstellar space reached
[18:39] Action: Chetic rolls eyes
[18:40] <nats`> eroomde you can check if english is not too bad ?
[18:40] <eroomde> link me up
[18:40] <nats`> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[18:40] <nats`> in the decoding payload page
[18:40] <M0TFO> strong but no decode!
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah question by "Crow Robot"
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> nice MST3K reference
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> Chetic, did they really mention that the years before?
[18:41] <eroomde> formidable nats`
[18:43] <nats`> is it ironic ? :D
[18:43] <Rob_> Am i correct with RTTY 45 baud 110 8-n-1 170Htz shift
[18:43] <Chetic> yes Lunar_Lander, I see a headline like that every month :p
[18:44] <x-f> Chetic, http://25.media.tumblr.com/a61014a98621e68eb90b3c77af6c23e6/tumblr_mknwghspYg1snnbt8o1_r1_500.jpg
[18:44] <Chetic> it's not like there is a line out there that is 1 meter wide and marks the border between our solar system and not our solar system
[18:44] <Chetic> rofl
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> but they say that now they found it due to the instrument data
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> I doubt they would do a press conference if it wasn't true
[18:44] <Chetic> nats`: now I need a guide to dl-fldigi.. the one you linked only covers sdr#
[18:45] <eroomde> i never do irony :)
[18:45] <Chetic> >:|
[18:45] <mfa298> Chetic: there's a guide to tracking which covers dl-fldigi (in many languages)
[18:45] <nats`> ohh my bad Chetic I understood you needed a guide to interact sdr# and dl-fldigi
[18:45] <mfa298> look at the front page of the wiki
[18:45] <nats`> sorry
[18:46] <Chetic> found it
[18:46] <Chetic> sorry, just getting a bit moody from the lack of progress, despite a bit of effort
[18:47] <eroomde> that usually is the hough bit before the breakthrough
[18:47] <enkidu> nats`: ive found amplifier in sot37 package. worth using?
[18:47] <nats`> reference ?
[18:47] <nats`> that's a LNA no ?
[18:48] <nats`> because you don't have many power dissipation inside that
[18:48] <enkidu> none. ive fousd it in headend: A04 on top of it
[18:48] <eroomde> like practicing the piano and having like 3 or 4 practice sessions consecutively when you seem to be making no progress, think you'll give up, go on your tube and watch a 4 year old chinese child play it better than you ever will, consider chopping off your hands with a rusty axe
[18:48] <nats`> I have some dual gate mosfet in this package
[18:48] <eroomde> and then boom, suddenly you can play it really well next session
[18:48] <Chetic> lol eroomde I know just what you mean
[18:48] <enkidu> nats`: this one have input, dual ground and output that feeds the power
[18:48] <Chetic> and heh I play too :)
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[18:49] <nats`> enkidu you have a reference or unknown chip in a radio ?
[18:49] <enkidu> it is unknown for me, ive seen circuit using similar thing before
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[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> hi radim_OM2AMR
[18:50] <nats`> you could take apicture I'm puzzled because I know some mosfet and MMIC in this package
[18:50] <M0TFO> Still too week
[18:50] <radim_OM2AMR> evening Lunar_Lander, how are you ?
[18:51] ibanezmatt13 (6d94fbb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.148.251.185) joined #highaltitude.
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> I am fine, thanks
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> and happy :D
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[18:51] <enkidu> nats`: wait, it is not sot103, its smaller
[18:51] <mikestir> enkidu: could be msa0486
[18:51] <radim_OM2AMR> same here :-) any plans for the next XD day ?
[18:52] <enkidu> mikestir: it looks like this
[18:52] <eroomde> the blowfish is basically hilarious
[18:52] <eroomde> blobfish*
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[18:52] <DL7AD> can receive the balloon
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> which balloon?
[18:54] <radim_OM2AMR> balloon cluster
[18:54] <Chetic> it's like I'm only looking at harmonics..
[18:54] <enkidu> mikestir: thansk it is this one
[18:55] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[18:56] <enkidu> noise figure 7dB. not worth it
[18:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> exat freq for SP ballon?
[18:59] <enkidu> 437.7 +- drift
[19:00] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[19:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> whats the current freq?
[19:00] <M6PFX-mobile> evening
[19:00] <M0TFO> evening..
[19:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[19:01] <Chetic> I can hear the signal clear as day, but I just don't get how to configure dl-fldigi
[19:01] <Chetic> I have it at RTTY 50 baud, and the correct parity, byte-size etc
[19:01] <M0TFO> use dm780 then on HRD
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi OZ1SKY_Brian
[19:02] <M0TFO> is it 45 or 50?
[19:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic for what balloon?
[19:02] <Chetic> testing at home
[19:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh
[19:02] <Chetic> trying to understand how to receive
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[19:04] <Chetic> spot the error: http://i.imgur.com/vqueuZz.png
[19:04] <x-f> DL7AD, not decoding it yet?
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[19:04] <DL7AD> x-f yes i can decode in partially
[19:04] <enkidu> mikestir: thansk it is this onechdeviation
[19:05] <enkidu> ffs
[19:05] <enkidu> Chetic: deviation
[19:05] <enkidu> sp3osj uses 450hz deviation
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[19:06] <Rob_> quick question is it rtty 45 or rtty 50?
[19:06] <enkidu> 50
[19:06] <Chetic> enkidu: who is sp3osj?
[19:06] <Rob_> ty
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[19:06] <enkidu> ah... who are you trying to decode?
[19:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i remember something about an offset on SDR, that you must not set the centerfreq on the freq you want to rx
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[19:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what freq is your transmitter on?
[19:07] <Rob_> NGOX
[19:07] <Chetic> it's an ntx2, at 434.065 I believe
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[19:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic should be at 434.075 ish
[19:08] <Chetic> when I transmit the waterfall just sprays all over the place
[19:08] <Chetic> in fldigi
[19:08] <x-f> Rob_, NG0X has 110 baud RTTY
[19:08] ct1etx (2e324a35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.50.74.53) joined #highaltitude.
[19:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic remove the antenna on the SDR, so you dont get alot of splatter or harmonics and look for the strongest signal arouns 434.075 ish
[19:09] <x-f> Chetic, turn the volume down, it's too loud, red diamond on bottom right corner should be green
[19:09] <Rob_> Got it cheers 110
[19:09] <Chetic> OZ1SKY_Brian: there is no antenna, and when I listen to it I can very clearly hear a crisp transmission
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[19:09] <Chetic> sounds like an old 60s modem
[19:10] <Chetic> thank you x-f
[19:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic right, but it does not look right in dl.fldigi, you should have 2 clear lines at the spaceing you transmit at
[19:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic i only see one
[19:11] <Chetic> instead I get lines all over the place
[19:11] <Chetic> why?
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[19:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> try and look around 434.075 ish, right now your spectrum is 434.040 to 434.056
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[19:12] <Chetic> how important is it to have a narrow filter bandwidth?
[19:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> you can narrow it when you find the signal, right now you need to find the right signal first
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> what's the balloon's name?
[19:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and i think your looking at the wrong freq.
[19:14] <Maxell> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=jnoss1 preparing for tommrow
[19:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> If its a NTX2 434.075, you can´t see that freq in your current setup
[19:15] <Maxell> can JNOSS1 get updated in the active list?
[19:15] <Maxell> Will be at 434.650 Mhz
[19:15] <Steve_2e0vet> the user list on the right is that active users or all users
[19:15] <Chetic> OZ1SKY_Brian: but I can hear it very clearly
[19:15] <Chetic> and see it in sdr#
[19:15] <Chetic> very clearly
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[19:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic even so, try to set the center freq to 434.090 and look again
[19:16] <Chetic> why are there only fixed values for carrier shift?
[19:17] <Chetic> I've done so, OZ1SKY_Brian
[19:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> see a stronger signal now?
[19:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> around 434.075?
[19:18] <Chetic> no
[19:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hhmmmm
[19:18] <Chetic> there is clearly a very strong signal at 434.049mhz as you can see in the picture
[19:18] <Chetic> or am I misunderstanding something?
[19:19] <Chetic> no, as I transmit data, I can see that top moving and nothing else
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[19:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ive not sone much work on SDR´s, but i can recall it problem some of them had, that the centerfreq was a signal the SDR generated, not a on air signal.
[19:20] <Chetic> so I know where it is, now how do I get the bars in fldigi to fit?
[19:20] <Chetic> fldigi makes no sense to me
[19:20] <enkidu> OZ1SKY_Brian: its because of DC cancelation
[19:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> pleace clear something up for me, if you centerfreq is set for 434.050 you see your transmitter there, if your centerfreq is set for 434.060 your transmitter is still on 434.050?
[19:21] <enkidu> it should be
[19:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes but is it
[19:22] <Chetic> I think you need to rephrase the question, OZ1SKY_Brian
[19:22] <enkidu> in my case it is - I often detune sdr so all noise is out of decoding range
[19:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> enkidu right, thats what Chetic needs to do
[19:23] <bertrik> yes, important for dvb-t sticks using an e4000 tuner
[19:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic in SDR# set your centerfreq for 434.060 and then click on the transmitter freq at 434.050
[19:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> So you move your centerfreq away from your transmitter signal
[19:24] <enkidu> bertrik: also important for any usb-powered tuners.
[19:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok 434.060 might be too much, try 434.055 then
[19:25] <Chetic> yeah I see a small tip there that is always in the same place
[19:25] <Chetic> but it's not in the way of the rtty at all
[19:26] <enkidu> also rtl-sdr has shitty quartz osc
[19:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lets see a screendump of it again then, both fldigi and sdr#
[19:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> with the current settings
[19:27] <Chetic> another pic: http://i.imgur.com/FK7xndj.png
[19:28] <Chetic> this time I transmitted something
[19:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> there you go
[19:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> much better
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[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> OZ1SKY_Brian, Do you have Offset Tuning ticked in the Configure of SDR# ?
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> If not tick it
[19:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Now go to "op mode" > "rtty" > "custom"
[19:28] <OY1R> you need to halve your rtty bandwidth
[19:29] <DL7AD> can it receive loud ans clearly
[19:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> There you lower your custom shits, till it fits
[19:29] <bertrik> also, reduce audio level by sliding the slider under "Audio" to the left, until the red diamond becomes green
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Chetic, Do you have Offset Tuning ticked in the Configure of SDR# ?
[19:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Looks like 400Hz shift´ish
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> If not tick it
[19:30] <OY1R> yea
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Then you will get rid of the central DC peak
[19:31] <OY1R> just got two more terratec receivers
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[19:32] <Chetic> Geoff-G8DHE: offset tuning? where is that?
[19:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh hejsa Regin, still missing that ip61 on 6m :-)
[19:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> On the Configure button top of screen
[19:32] <Chetic> DL7AD: what's loud ans?
[19:32] <DL7AD> S0 ^^
[19:33] <Chetic> no such option
[19:33] <Chetic> sample rate and auto/manual gain
[19:33] <Chetic> and freq correction (ppm)
[19:33] <Chetic> I have auto gain, is that right?
[19:33] <OY1R> Hey Brian. tror ikke der er forrhold til 6m i aften.
[19:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Underneath Sampling Mode
[19:33] <Chetic> notice I am using rtl_tcp
[19:33] <DL7AD> the signal is a bit too high (+300hz)
[19:34] <OY1R> i do have a dedicated 6m antenna now.
[19:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah sorry assumed you had a USB dongle in place, are you running froma seperate server then ?
[19:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OY1R Joker også :-)
[19:34] <Chetic> Geoff-G8DHE: no it's local, rtl_tcp is just the only solution that works for me
[19:34] <OY1R> but it's just a vertical, and i run qrp.
[19:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> So your talking to the server ? via RTL-TCP
[19:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Chetic did you get the shift to fit now?
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.universetoday.com/104679/absolutely-incredible-photo-frog-launches-with-ladee/
[19:35] <OY1R> OZ1SKY_Brian, i'm always on ##hamradio so if you hear an opening give me a shout.
[19:35] <Chetic> I'm guessing the right thing goes on the carrier signal
[19:35] <Chetic> because I'm getting a green bar to the right
[19:35] <Chetic> and a very clear carrier signal now
[19:35] <Chetic> but when I transmit it all looks very messy
[19:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> In which case you need to set the Offset tuning on the server
[19:36] <Chetic> a-ha
[19:36] <OY1R> i know of one other ham in ip61. Otto oy9r but im not sure if he does 6m.
[19:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OY1R we will see next season, GP and qrp will not work on meteor scatter.
[19:37] <Chetic> rtl_tcp doesn't seem to have that setting, Geoff-G8DHE
[19:37] <OY1R> i can do 12w if need be,
[19:37] <Chetic> several cursewords in a row.
[19:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Which dongle are you using on the server then ?
[19:37] <OY1R> i just about retired by ft897, i realy do love my new KX3 :)
[19:37] <Chetic> Geoff-G8DHE: rtl_test says "Using device 0: ezcap USB 2.0 DVB-T/DAB/FM dongle" and "Found Rafael Micro R820T tuner"
[19:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> One second let me check that out my end
[19:38] <Upu> evening all
[19:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OY1R nice :-)
[19:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Anthony
[19:38] <Steve_2e0vet> evening
[19:38] <Upu> if anyones been after me for the last few days sorry not ignoring you
[19:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Anyone hearing NG0X?
[19:39] <Upu> I've had surgery on my eye and my use of PC is limited
[19:39] <Upu> close the shop as well for a few weeks until I can see out of it again
[19:39] <Upu> but anyway
[19:39] <Upu> where is Mr Trappe ?
[19:39] <Upu> Hi faroe islands :)
[19:40] <Steve_2e0vet> looks like no ones been after you!!
[19:40] <Upu> thats not what my PM's say :)
[19:40] <Steve_2e0vet> lol
[19:40] <Steve_2e0vet> is/was there a user on here called ianezmatt13
[19:41] <Upu> oh I've sorted him out
[19:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> given the circumstances, i think all can forgive you. Health first.
[19:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Must be the R820 doesn't support it then, nevermind it removes the central DC peak.
[19:41] <Steve_2e0vet> no the question was IS there a user on here called that
[19:41] <Upu> yes
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[19:41] <Upu> ibanezmatt
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:42] <Steve_2e0vet> argh ok, does he come on much?
[19:42] <Upu> he was at the conference
[19:42] <Upu> hi Lunar
[19:42] <Upu> yes he does
[19:42] <Steve_2e0vet> cool, i came accross a python script of his and wanted to ask him a question
[19:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> how forgot to lift the parking break on the sp balloon?
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[19:45] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: you could try asking the question more generally, several people have helped matt with his code so it's possible someone else can answer the question
[19:45] <x-f> Mr. Trappe is approaching Newfoundland at 5.5 km altitude, APRS is updating again
[19:46] <Steve_2e0vet> looking at his NORD.py i was wondering how he connect the NTX2 to the pi.
[19:46] <Upu> super
[19:46] <OY1R> what's his Europe ETA ?
[19:46] <fsphil> I must get wire up my HF antenna
[19:46] <Upu> he's insane
[19:46] <fsphil> -get
[19:47] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: via the UART as almost everyone has done
[19:47] <fsphil> I hope he's got some way of communicating other than aprs :)
[19:47] <g4sgx-iain> Can see his telemetry on waterfall, no decodes yet
[19:47] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, the GPS is on the UART
[19:47] <Steve_2e0vet> raspberry
[19:47] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: the standard approach on the pi is to connect the GPS and the NTX2 via the uart
[19:47] <fsphil> welcome to the Pi's main flaw for doing hab'ing :)
[19:48] <mfa298> and then open and close the port at different speeds depending which you're using
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[19:48] <fsphil> they can be wired at the same time with some circuit trickey
[19:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> g4sgx-iain whats your dail and waterfall freq?
[19:48] <fsphil> it means commands you send to the gps get transmitted via the ntx2, but the baud rate is so high it'll just be a brief bit of noise
[19:48] <mfa298> you could also connect the gps to i2c but that requires some hacking, or the ntx2 to a gpio but that needs even more hacking.
[19:49] <g4sgx-iain> Dial:14.095600 Mark@1776 Hz
[19:49] <g4sgx-iain> every ten mins
[19:49] <g4sgx-iain> next in 30 secs
[19:50] <Steve_2e0vet> that said and this is probably a stupid question, shouldnt the GPS be RX and NTX2 be on TX ?
[19:50] <Steve_2e0vet> cd /nord
[19:50] <fsphil> you want to be able to tell the gps to go into flight mode
[19:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> g4sgx-iain thanks
[19:50] <fsphil> which means both rx and tx
[19:50] <mfa298> yes, but you also need to talk to the gps to put it into flight mode
[19:50] <Steve_2e0vet> true
[19:50] <Steve_2e0vet> cd NORB
[19:50] <fsphil> but you can have both the gps and ntx2 driven by the same tx
[19:50] <Steve_2e0vet> ARGH!!!!
[19:50] <fsphil> and just alternate between them
[19:51] <g4sgx-iain> A big beam would get it..
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[19:51] <fsphil> No such file or directory :)
[19:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> g4sgx-iain yeah, not getting anything here
[19:51] <fsphil> if he keeps far enough north I'll actually be in a good spot to receive this :)
[19:51] <g4sgx-iain> Its only for a few secs every 10 minutes.
[19:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> g4sgx-iain one linje or?
[19:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> line
[19:52] <g4sgx-iain> 2 or 3 lines max
[19:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> R
[19:54] <g4sgx-iain> I have one of the better RX but my antenna is an Inverted-L.
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[19:56] <g4sgx-iain> I am looking to retire in a few years and am looking for anywhere I can have an antenna farm! lol
[19:56] <g4sgx-iain> Its my lifes main restriction.
[19:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> g4sgx-iain i only got a multiband hf gp, not ideal
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[19:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody explored the use of rigCat in dl-fldigi ?
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[19:59] <Upu> I put the APRS RX on the map
[19:59] <m3eav> anyone on here listening for NGOX?
[19:59] <jcoxon> hey all
[19:59] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[19:59] <g4sgx-iain> yep a couple or few
[19:59] <jcoxon> Upu you should put KJ4GV as NG0X
[19:59] <m3eav> he seems ot have stoppe don the map? can;t find no upt o date info
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[20:00] <jcoxon> it'll then complete the stream surely
[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=8&call=a%2FKJ4GQV&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[20:00] <fsphil> if the gps_time fields match up it will jcoxon
[20:00] <g4sgx-iain> he was strong that time, any decodes?
[20:00] Action: fsphil is still setting up
[20:01] <g4sgx-iain> partial : 19:59:59,4830.68,-06050.21,559510,8.46,31
[20:01] <fsphil> as is typical when I'm tidying up, I found something and got distracted :)
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[20:01] <jcoxon> ping LeoBodnar
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> hey jcoxon
[20:01] <m3eav> anyone know what power/antenna he is using for 14mhz?
[20:01] <g4sgx-iain> m3eav: hes up but tracking is erratic, not decoding on 20m yet
[20:02] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, can i clear b11 and b12
[20:02] <Upu> its one of wb8elk's I think m3eav
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> yes go ahead
[20:02] <fsphil> awwww
[20:02] <m3eav> thanks g4gsx, yeah i am monitoring 20mtr too
[20:02] <jcoxon> okay, clearing the map, last chance for screenshots
[20:03] <g4sgx-iain> hes at 18,000 t
[20:03] <enkidu> jcoxon: could you dump last points to some place?
[20:03] <Willdude123> Upu sorted board out- is rectangular now
[20:03] <jcoxon> enkidu, all the data is available from http://habitat.habhub.org/
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> I guess export is still available
[20:03] <jcoxon> the whole flight data is downloadable
[20:03] <jcoxon> and more
[20:03] <enkidu> okay, go ahead then
[20:03] <g4sgx-iain> He was strong sig last time, almost a decode but QSB got him
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[20:04] <fsphil> found out why I couldn't get my F4 working jcoxon. it's an F3. duuh moment
[20:04] <jcoxon> oh
[20:04] <adamgreig> fsphil: haha oops
[20:04] <fsphil> I have no excuse :)
[20:04] <adamgreig> that could have an impact :P
[20:04] <fsphil> it says right there on the board
[20:05] <jcoxon> adamgreig, ummm the tracker doesn't seem to accept the admin control
[20:05] <jcoxon> everything i cleared is still there
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[20:05] <fsphil> it may be cached
[20:05] <jcoxon> oh fixed now
[20:05] <fsphil> yea
[20:05] <fsphil> gone for me
[20:05] <jcoxon> okay
[20:05] <adamgreig> hmm yea probs caching
[20:05] <adamgreig> at most 2min iirc
[20:05] <jcoxon> next lets merge kj4gqv with ng0x
[20:05] <adamgreig> usually less
[20:06] <Willdude123> Should send off PCB files at some point. Had a bit of a crap day so not really in the mood for it
[20:06] <fsphil> heh, spacenear's prediction has it looping around
[20:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> It will have him sunk in a minute, he's broadcasting 0 feet again!
[20:07] <fsphil> yea, aprs oddity hopefully
[20:08] <fsphil> yea
[20:08] <fsphil> back up
[20:08] <fsphil> man it's going to be dark up there when night hits
[20:08] <fsphil> the sky will look amazing
[20:08] <fsphil> if it's not cloudy
[20:08] <Willdude123> I need good music to do physics problems to.
[20:08] <m3eav> I envy him, must be peacefull too wetahe rpermitting
[20:09] <adamgreig> and so quiet
[20:09] <fsphil> yea no engines
[20:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think the view straight up might be a bit congested for him ;-)
[20:09] <Willdude123> It's one of those things that I have to have, like when writing I can't focus
[20:09] <Willdude123> Unless I have a clicky pen
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[20:10] <m3eav> I just visualise some commercial jet flying nearby and some kid looking out and seeing him grinning away only to be told by his parents to not make up stories about flying men with party balloons :-)
[20:10] <Maxell> just got a green decode: $$jnoss1,9,000242,0000.00000,00000.00000,0.000,NF,0.0,0.0,0,8.32,21.12,34.48,-1,-1,-1,144,0*5BD0
[20:10] <Maxell> someone testing at home
[20:10] <fsphil> on HF?
[20:10] <Willdude123> m3eav, I can't.
[20:10] <Willdude123> Funnily enough
[20:10] <Willdude123> :)
[20:11] <m3eav> you lack fun imagination will:-)
[20:11] <m3eav> maxell was that decode on HF?
[20:15] <ramm25> please tell me if there was a balloon launch today?
[20:15] <Maxell> m3eav: nope, 434.650 MHz
[20:15] <DL1SGP> hi again
[20:15] <m3eav> ok cheers
[20:15] <fsphil> there was indeed ramm25
[20:15] <Maxell> ramm25: HABE was today, http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=SP3OSJ is going right now
[20:16] <Willdude123> m3eav, Sorry what was that I was just daydreaming about rainbow land, with rainbow flags and rainbow ice creams and rainbow cars
[20:16] <ramm25> Maxell, Thanks
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[20:17] <DL1SGP> SP3OSJ started today? he told me yesterday that he would start friady
[20:17] <Maxell> fsphil: nope, the jnoss thats launching tomrrow
[20:17] <fsphil> ah
[20:17] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18577_trj001.gif
[20:17] <fsphil> had thought for a moment someone was transmitting telemetry on the frequency ng0x is using
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[20:17] <fsphil> which would be rather rude
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[20:18] <Maxell> yeah
[20:18] <DL1SGP> hehe there is an AMTOR-Winlink Mailbox not far from the 20m freq that ng0x is on :)
[20:19] <Maxell> Also, for the note: JNOSS1 launching tomorrow in the Hague @ 434.650 MHz
[20:19] <fsphil> this flight needs ssdv :)
[20:19] <DL1SGP> would you also have an estimate on the time that JNOSS1 is starting and possibly some brief info if foil floater or not?
[20:19] <m3eav> totally agree fsphil, that woudl have been great
[20:20] <bertrik> 75 baud, 350 Hz shift
[20:20] <bertrik> RTTY
[20:20] <Maxell> DL1SGP: uh 9:00 till 14:00 (amsterdam/berlin time) was looking quite good
[20:20] <Willdude123> m3eav, I have a fun imagination
[20:20] <Maxell> bertrik: autoconfigure should work
[20:20] <g4sgx-iain> so close and yet not green
[20:20] <g4sgx-iain> $$NG0X,68,20:19:59,4837.66,-06027.73,586$
[20:20] <DL1SGP> thank you Maxell
[20:21] <DL1SGP> thank you iain
[20:21] <m3eav> on 20 g4gsx?
[20:21] <g4sgx-iain> yes
[20:21] <m3eav> what antenna you using
[20:21] <DL1SGP> still 14095 something?
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[20:21] <m3eav> 140956 i beleive DL1
[20:21] <g4sgx-iain> inverted L. 14.0956 mark @1800Hz
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[20:22] <DL1SGP> Thank you iain
[20:22] <m3eav> ok cheer fshil, using MFJ loop here
[20:23] <AD-HOC_> What is the actual altitude?
[20:23] <Upu> ~5km I think
[20:23] <AD-HOC_> thanks
[20:24] <DL1SGP> according to the frame of g4sgx-iain it was 4837.66
[20:24] <AD-HOC_> My map told me 0m! :-o
[20:24] <DL1SGP> heh that would cause some wet feet
[20:24] <Upu> I think something is misreporting alt
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> The last non-zero was 5782m
[20:24] <fsphil> yea, it's putting out 0 sometimes
[20:24] <DL1SGP> this tracker has some reliable data as it seems https://share.delorme.com/ea79aa8be81346d6bf8159bf95a40f60
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> can someone tell me the name of the balloon please
[20:24] <Maxell> hmm, jnoss1 doesn't appear in any logs yet. It is however in the "all" list of autoconfigure
[20:24] <Willdude123> Upu did I mention my board wasn't rectangular
[20:25] <Upu> I mentioned that Willdude123
[20:25] <Willdude123> Oops
[20:25] <Willdude123> I thought snapping it to the grid fixed it.
[20:25] <Willdude123> So please don't go all "You never listen to good advice" on me
[20:26] <Willdude123> I changed the coords of each line so they were exactly perpendicular
[20:26] <ramm25> Data used by APRS?
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> I advise to listen to advices
[20:26] <fsphil> good advice
[20:27] <Willdude123> I do listen to advice
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[20:27] <Willdude123> Won't send off the new board design today, feeling a bit crap so can't really be bothered
[20:28] <DL1SGP> I hope you will be feeling better again quick Willdude123
[20:29] <Willdude123> thanks
[20:29] <Willdude123> Anyway, I better sleep.
[20:29] <Willdude123> I say that every night, but I know I won't.
[20:31] <DL1SGP> heh I somehow messed up my right should joint, quite painful experience and certainly if ever you plan to stay awake, that is a good way of avoiding too much sleep
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[20:32] <Rob_> starting to decode NG0X now a lot stronger
[20:32] <DL1SGP> he just got in here as well, no decode yet
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[20:34] <ramm25> SP3OSJ has low batt voltage, 1.37v
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> is the clusterf*** still up?
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> sorry i couldnt resist it
[20:36] <DL1SGP> hehe
[20:37] <DL1SGP> If I were a priest I'd give you absolution, as I am not a priest .oO( which prolly is a good thing ) I just clap at your question :)
[20:37] <enkidu> ramm25: its alkaline
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[20:39] <Willdude123> Is said clusterfuck a balloon?
[20:39] <ramm25> enkidu, tell me, what is measured by the height of more than 18 kilometers away?
[20:39] <enkidu> balloon cluster
[20:40] <jcoxon> okay
[20:40] <DL1SGP> noo it was censored, I was reading clusterfine
[20:40] <Rob_> worse that time
[20:40] <jcoxon> i've merged the two streams
[20:41] <enkidu> ramm25: I dont understand what height do you mean
[20:41] <ramm25> enkidu, sorry, i mean altitude
[20:42] <Willdude123> DL1SGP, I go to a Catholic school so I see a few priests every now and then
[20:42] <Willdude123> Generally dislikeable characters.
[20:42] <Willdude123> They have no experience of what the world is like outside of religion and charity
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: if anyone can receive B-11 tomorrow or on Saturday you should ask them to record wav
[20:43] <enkidu> ramm25: I know you meant altitude, but still dont understand question. did you meant "how te measure altitude when gps module is shutdown due to altitude limit" ?
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> to test your decoder
[20:43] <sv1iw> NG0X heard very week briefly, couldn't decode
[20:43] <Steve_2e0vet> can anyone recommend a program to decode ssdv
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> Good point Laurenceb_
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[20:43] <m3eav> fldigi hab steve?
[20:43] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: dl-fldigi
[20:43] <fsphil> which is pretty much all there is atm
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: also github it pls pls :P
[20:44] <Steve_2e0vet> oh ok, didnt realise that did it, will that view the images as well
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> tho i guess its not that complex
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> i might have a play in matlab
[20:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody explored the use of rigCat in dl-fldigi ?
[20:44] <m3eav> views them and uploads them steve
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[20:44] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: yea. click on View -> SSDV RX
[20:44] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: and if you're in online mode, the image will appear on http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[20:45] <ramm25> enkidu, yes, there is a limit 18 km, how they measured more?
[20:45] <Steve_2e0vet> thanks
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[20:45] <LeoBodnar> Lol it's a horrible mess of random C statements. I have pretty much explained the idea. I'll clean it up and github it. But there's nothing to it than what I have already said.
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> I am an assemblerman so all my C programs look like mythical creatures.
[20:46] <fsphil> goto?
[20:46] <ramm25> http://www.sat24.com/?ir=true
[20:46] <Steve_2e0vet> fsphil, do i need any special settings other than rtty
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> Unfolded loops, etc
[20:47] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: nope, just the correct rtty settings (8-bit required)
[20:47] <Rebounder> LeoBodnar: would like to see your php-code.. ;9
[20:47] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, how is the butane/methanol idea coming along?
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> No goto luckily I can't even remember how labels look in C
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> Label: ?
[20:47] <fsphil> yea
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> or :Label ?
[20:47] <fsphil> the first one
[20:47] <fsphil> I've used it once
[20:47] <fsphil> when not using it would have made ugly code
[20:47] <x-f> ramm25, by using a Ublox GPS module - when it is put in "flight mode", it works up to 50 km
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> WHile butane is in my freezer Willdude123 the world can sleep without worries
[20:48] <ramm25> x-f, thanks
[20:48] <Willdude123> Why is it in your freezer?
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> Like climbing out of 10 levels deep CASE statement fsphil ?
[20:49] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: yep :) almost exactly that
[20:49] <fsphil> it was bad code to begin with
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/c1l7nfE.png
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> head search with RTTY
[20:49] <fsphil> which is why I guess goto has such a bad reputation
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> in madlab...
[20:50] <mikestir> gotos are ok in C for exception handling
[20:50] <mikestir> and nothing else
[20:50] <fsphil> AH, I see NG0X!
[20:50] <g4sgx-iain> close but not green $$NG0X,71,20:49:5,4846.68,-05951.54,4505,10,8.58,21*6D
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[20:50] <fsphil> didn't decode anything
[20:50] <enkidu> ramm25: an x-f mentioned, but also it is possible to read altitude from pressure module
[20:50] <fsphil> but it was on the waterfall
[20:50] <LeoBodnar>
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: where are you rxing from?
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> go Laurenceb_, make the proper decoder
[20:51] <fsphil> Laurenceb_: own antenna at home, Cookstown
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> nice
[20:51] <g4sgx-iain> That was a good strong sig, best yet
[20:51] <fsphil> not cheating with an sdr this time :)
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: what frequency
[20:51] <enkidu> also there is option of extracting gps module from radiosondes, they dont have limits
[20:51] <g4sgx-iain> some rapid qsb tho
[20:51] <fsphil> 14095.6khz + 1948Hz
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> oh neat
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> this is cool
[20:52] <x-f> enkidu, or make your own :)
[20:52] <fsphil> now if pulseaudio would stop messing up
[20:52] <fsphil> I might be able to decode something soon
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> 20m band, same as WSPR :P
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> shows how feasible it is
[20:52] <fsphil> why 110 baud though
[20:52] <fsphil> and not 50
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> I want to know his power and antenna
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> im surprised how he seems to have stable flight now
[20:52] <fsphil> or even 100
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[20:53] <Laurenceb_> hes KJ4GQV ?
[20:53] <enkidu> x-f: there are some nice gps correction networks, that allow surface modules to be as accurate as 0.1mm
[20:53] <g4sgx-iain> Have you heard of the JT9 ? theres a variant that takes about 40mins to transmit a few chars.
[20:53] <ramm25> enkidu, can you show a photo of the finished weather balloon?
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> <g4sgx-iain>: tbh im more impressed by LeoBodnars dominoex decoder
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> high throughput too
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> WSPR does have the advantage of a network
[20:54] <fsphil> it does
[20:54] <fsphil> it's almost idea for this use
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[20:54] <fsphil> ideal*
[20:55] <g4sgx-iain> yep, managed new zealand on 100mw on 40M with wspr. Just kept ramping the power down.
[20:55] <enkidu> ramm25: I dont have any, I used gps modules to track electric planes built by my friend, Il be into balloons in few months maybe
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> Maybe encode extra info into a fake locator. Two messages.
[20:55] <fsphil> I think there is a two-message mode, for extra position accuracy
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> or just power level
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:56] <fsphil> someone mentioned it at the conf
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> It is still 10km accuracy fsphil
[20:56] <fsphil> ooch
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> 5'
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> lon
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[20:57] <LeoBodnar> A bit better at our lattitude but still useless for most purposes
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> this is the 4 digit position?
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> AA11bb format
[20:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hum Trapper is going to have to put his foot down so far 9:52 minutes & 324 miles so 32mph = 6 1/2 days to go 5000 miles...
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> bb is 24 x 24 subdivision of 1x2 degrees rectangle
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[20:59] <LeoBodnar> Somebody told me at the conf to talk to you Laurenceb_
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[20:59] <Laurenceb_> fair enough :P
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> So I am :D
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> what about??
[21:00] <m3eav> 6 1/2 days toilet must be fun:-)
[21:00] <fsphil> nothing received that time
[21:00] <m3eav> i heard him just now
[21:00] <m3eav> no decode
[21:01] <fsphil> hf is weird
[21:01] <m3eav> It is Voodoo fsphil:-)
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> i think 10Km is good enough for what we want
[21:01] <Steve_2e0vet> does my waterfall look suspect http://imgur.com/Mb7ZthS
[21:02] <ramm25> enkidu,I ran the garbage bags, used hydrogen. As the payload using LEDs.
[21:02] <enkidu> ramm25: they have nearly no pressure resistance. also, garbage bags can be used as solar balloon
[21:02] <Steve_2e0vet> i am sure it is because nothing is being received
[21:02] <fsphil> a bit dark Steve_2e0vet :)
[21:03] <fsphil> also you're on 50 baud
[21:03] <m3eav> looks like input not setup right?
[21:03] <Steve_2e0vet> knob i am
[21:03] <mikestir> fsphil: is it txing every 10 minutes on the 0?
[21:03] <fsphil> while you can do ssdv at 50 baud, it would require much patience :)
[21:03] <fsphil> mikestir: seems to be
[21:03] <Steve_2e0vet> proggy set to 600
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[21:04] <fsphil> arg, gqrx keeps stalling
[21:04] <mikestir> I take it I am unlikely to hear anything without a full size antenna?
[21:04] <fsphil> I've a 5m vertical
[21:04] <mikestir> hmm. I might hang around in the garden at 10 pasat
[21:04] <mikestir> past*
[21:04] <g4sgx-iain> perfect, its a 1/4 wave
[21:04] <fsphil> that said I've only seen the signal once, and no decode :)
[21:04] <enkidu> mikestir: you can try using ferrite rod antenna
[21:05] <mikestir> I had an offset dipole strung up the length of the garden, but it got taken down when we had the roof replaced and I never put it back up
[21:05] <Steve_2e0vet> does the image dispaly in the decode window as its decoding
[21:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> yes
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[21:06] <g4sgx-iain> ive got a 15m long inverted L, not much better
[21:07] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: the bar at the top will also turn green on decoding a valid packet
[21:07] <mikestir> my garden is west-facing which makes for a less than ideal orientation
[21:07] <fsphil> my garden is stupidly small, so I have to use the vertical
[21:08] <mikestir> it used to work ok though. used to hear quite a bit from the US
[21:08] <fsphil> when there isn't so much qrm the vertical works quite well
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[21:08] <mikestir> I have a nice racal rx I should get back into service. It's dead at the moment
[21:09] <g4sgx-iain> ive worked 201 countries on my bit of wire so far this year, good un.
[21:09] <m3eav> this little MFJ loop almost got me a psk31 in japan on 10 watts other day! quite impressed with it fsphil
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[21:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Steve_2e0vet, This was a capture of SSDV @600baud http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/PIE6/Capture.JPG
[21:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> two channels at the same time from the PIE6 flight
[21:11] <mikestir> question on message format: if there is no GPS fix should the sentence ID and timestamp be held (i.e. just keep transmitting the last known good)?
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[21:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[21:12] <m3eav> evening
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> SP6VWX hast just received NG0X
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> KT5TK: hi, at home ?
[21:13] <DL1SGP> good evening Tom!
[21:13] <Steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, think i have cracked it, i will upload mine in a mo
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB-Tom
[21:13] <DL1SGP> my issue with NG0X right now is that there is some Comms stuff right next to him :)
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[21:14] Action: SP9UOB-Tom finally did WSPR message type3 :-) Callsign hash + 6 digit locator :-)
[21:14] <g4sgx-iain> theres wspr to the left
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> LON: 186535568 LAT: 502774816
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Loc : JO90HG
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> PLL ON
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> WSPR message type 3
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> hash = 0x369c
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[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> so my WSPR long distance tracker is allmost ready :-)
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[21:16] <enkidu> SP9UOB-Tom: any schematic?
[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> enkidu: just PIC and DDS and push-pull PA
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[21:17] <Steve_2e0vet> its not quick this SSDV is it?
[21:17] <enkidu> nice
[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> nothing special, im working on code by now
[21:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> not at 50baud it won't be ;-)
[21:18] <nats`> last possibility removing the tqfp -_-
[21:18] <nats`> last time I use stm32
[21:18] <nats`> until they do a bga with 1mm pin spacing
[21:19] <enkidu> SP9UOB-Tom: and what used to decode?
[21:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> enkidu: wspr software
[21:19] <enkidu> I see
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> enkidu: http://wsprnet.org/drupal/
[21:20] <enkidu> I know address already
[21:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> hmmm something is still wrong with hashing - back to debugging :-)
[21:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> bye for now
[21:21] <enkidu> have fun
[21:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> enkidu: that's a lots of fun :-)
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[21:22] <Steve_2e0vet> Geoff-G8DHE, im doing it at 600baud
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[21:29] <jcoxon> if people post their latest decodes
[21:29] <jcoxon> we can perhaps reconstruct it and manually post it
[21:30] <g4sgx-iain> GREEN
[21:30] <g4sgx-iain> yay
[21:30] <jcoxon> good work!
[21:31] <g4sgx-iain> 4037Km, bets yet for me! lol
[21:31] <g4sgx-iain> *best
[21:31] <Rebounder> cool
[21:31] <jcoxon> updated teh map which is key
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> OK one last time
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> what is the callsign of the active flight?
[21:32] <Tracker> Just home from work and wonder if anyone has copies NG0X on 20M ?
[21:32] <m3eav> well done g4gsx
[21:32] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[21:32] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, it depends, which freq
[21:32] <jcoxon> on aprs its kj4GQV
[21:32] <jcoxon> on 20m its NG0X
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[21:33] <enkidu> clusterballoon over america, both receptions in Europe
[21:33] <m3eav> i heard it on 00 burst but not since
[21:33] <Tracker> What mode Baud and shift is NG0X using on 20 ??
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah OK
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[21:34] <DL1SGP> 110 Baud ASCII RTTY 8-bits no parity 1 stop bit
[21:34] <DL1SGP> Frequency on 20m is: 14.0956 MHz just above the WSPR frequency (approx 1880 Hz in the waterfall display).
[21:34] <DL1SGP> more info see mailinglist
[21:34] <Tracker> Thanks I ASSUME he still aloft ??
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:35] <DL1SGP> yes he is in the skies but do not ask me if he is having much fun right now :)
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[21:35] <Tracker> Anyone know the water temp up there ??
[21:36] <enkidu> water? or condensation?
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[21:36] <Tracker> Ocean Temp
[21:36] <ivor> hello from plymouth uk
[21:36] <DL1SGP> Hi ivor
[21:36] <enkidu> there are some maps from noaa
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[21:39] Action: jcoxon likes this flight
[21:39] <jcoxon> this is what the system was originally built or
[21:39] <jcoxon> for*
[21:40] <Steve_2e0vet> can you send telematry at 600baud
[21:40] <jcoxon> wow
[21:40] <fsphil> no sign of the signal since
[21:40] <jcoxon> does APRS import from habitat?
[21:40] <jcoxon> i mean does habitat pass to APRS these days?
[21:40] <g4sgx-iain> very faint that time
[21:40] <fsphil> don't believe so
[21:40] <fsphil> just the aprs > spacenear script
[21:41] <jcoxon> check out HB-NG0X
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[21:41] <jcoxon> on aprs.fi
[21:41] <fsphil> via habitat
[21:41] <fsphil> interesting
[21:42] <fsphil> KJ4ERJ
[21:42] <fsphil> callsign isn't familiar
[21:42] <fsphil> aaarg, pulseaudio
[21:42] <enkidu> fsphil: just kill it
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[21:43] <fsphil> need it for gqrx
[21:43] <fsphil> I think
[21:43] <enkidu> I have compiled gqrx with and without pulseaudio
[21:44] <enkidu> also I think, I could make it use even oss and selectable sinks
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[21:46] <fsphil> ok it won' tdie
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[21:46] <fsphil> well it dies, but keeps coming back from the dead
[21:46] <fsphil> oh finally got it
[21:46] <jcoxon> g4sgx-iain, hehe i like you trans=atlantic reception lines on spacenear.us
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[21:48] <m3eav> does anyone knows his power/anrenn yet?
[21:48] <m3eav> antenna
[21:48] <fsphil> gah, pa came back
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> is the altitude accurate?
[21:52] <enkidu> Laurenceb_: should be, if it is gps altitude
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[21:54] <enkidu> anyone speaking german here?
[21:54] <DL1SGP> Ja
[21:55] <DL1SGP> DL7AD does speak German :)
[21:55] Action: DL1SGP too btw
[21:56] <DL7AD> yep.
[21:56] <enkidu> http://freeservicemanuals.info/en/servicemanuals/viewmanual/Itt%20Schaub-Lorenz/STEREO3501HIFI/ here is manual
[21:56] <enkidu> I need information about IF frequency value
[21:57] <WillTablet> Urgh. Parents want talktalk to censor my internet
[21:57] <WillTablet> Internet is too slow to use tor or a vpn
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[21:58] <enkidu> tor is 1) taken by feds 2) used by some botnet
[21:58] <fsphil> don'ttalktalk
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[21:58] <m3eav> Tor, for perverts and marxists, same thing...:-)
[21:59] <enkidu> I was using it as proxy for instant messenger, so my flatmates wont capture my messages, but now it dont work
[21:59] <DL7AD> ZF = IF
[21:59] <DL7AD> FM 10.7mhz
[21:59] <enkidu> AM?
[21:59] <DL7AD> AM 450khz
[21:59] <DL7AD> or 455 i cant read it
[21:59] <adamgreig> WillTablet: vpn can be fast
[21:59] <WillTablet> fsphil I have no choice
[21:59] <enkidu> ah, I see now. 5 Kreise, 450/460 kHz
[22:00] <adamgreig> I would normally argue a sit down conversation with parents
[22:00] <adamgreig> but it doesn't sound like that'd get you very far
[22:00] <enkidu> I have it printed somewhere
[22:00] <WillTablet> What like 'erm I want to go on dodgy websites now so can you unblock them'
[22:00] <DL1SGP> heh
[22:00] <adamgreig> yea basically
[22:01] <WillTablet> This isn't recent but I just want be browse the internet freely.
[22:01] <adamgreig> I think I had that chat with my parents when I was about your age
[22:01] <adamgreig> about mobile internet or something
[22:01] <adamgreig> my home internet's never had blocks >_
[22:01] <adamgreig> try to avoid the phrase "dodgy websites"
[22:01] <g4sgx-iain> Deep QSB on 20M :(
[22:01] <fsphil> I'm not even hearing wspr now
[22:01] <WillTablet> Your internet was 56k.. Couldn't have loaded videos
[22:01] <g4sgx-iain> Starts off strong and goes to nothing
[22:01] <adamgreig> hey! I'm not that old!
[22:01] <WillTablet> I'm not saying I want to watch porn.
[22:01] <adamgreig> admittedly though
[22:01] <adamgreig> it was 56k
[22:02] <fsphil> lol
[22:02] <adamgreig> and I mostly downloaded macromedia shockwave games
[22:02] <g4sgx-iain> no wspr at the mo here either
[22:02] <WillTablet> I'm just saying I want err free internet acess
[22:02] <adamgreig> hang on, you're what, 13?
[22:02] <WillTablet> Yeah
[22:02] <adamgreig> by 13 I'm pretty sure I had dual bonded ISDN
[22:02] <adamgreig> coolest kid on the block
[22:02] <DL1SGP> g4sgx-iain: 20m does not seem happy right now
[22:02] <adamgreig> so that would have been a solid 128kbps
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> omg
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> and ELK FARM
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> *an
[22:03] <enkidu> DL1SGP: is it worth trying to use this as SDR frontend?
[22:03] <fsphil> I used to dial up both isdn channels at 64k separately, and do load balancing between them
[22:03] <adamgreig> fsphil: why not just dual bond?
[22:03] <fsphil> adamgreig: they charged for that
[22:03] <adamgreig> ah :P
[22:03] <fsphil> so we'd be sneaky :)
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[22:04] <DL1SGP> enkidu: not sure would have to read a bit more into depth than at this late hour :)
[22:05] <enkidu> DL1SGP: I see :) I think I will give it a try, just need to find oscillator for proper frequency :) if ZF is 460KHz id have to use 480
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[22:07] <enkidu> +-2khz stability ><
[22:10] <fsphil> ok see the signal this time
[22:10] <fsphil> no decodes
[22:10] <fsphil> dominoex would be nice about now :)
[22:11] <staylo> Hmm, that's not much altitude to play with
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[22:12] <ct1ffu> GE all
[22:12] <g4sgx-iain> Just going down over blow me down provincial park!
[22:13] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:15] <m3eav> well blow me
[22:15] <DL7AD> does anybody know for what time the batterys will be alive?
[22:15] <m3eav> altitude is low
[22:16] <enkidu> DL1SGP: on SP3OSJ?
[22:16] <DL1SGP> enkidu: not audible for me yet
[22:17] <enkidu> okay
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[22:18] <enkidu> he has some problems with battery mount
[22:18] <enkidu> voltage is unstable
[22:18] <enkidu> at least it is not searching for u-boots
[22:19] <DL1SGP> :)
[22:20] <enkidu> DL1SGP: I need something more stable than ceramic +-2khz osc. I think, ill use 48mhz crystall with sinusoid generator
[22:20] <enkidu> and of course prescalers
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[22:22] <Steve_2e0vet> is it possible to transmit telematery and ssdv at the same time
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[22:23] <Steve_2e0vet> *telemetry even
[22:24] <mikestir> I think you can alternate
[22:24] <g4sgx-iain> Even i he does land in Newfoundland, its the middle of no-where, big problems.
[22:25] <DL1SGP> indeed
[22:25] <g4sgx-iain> Didnt see a support jet.
[22:26] <mikestir> what do I need to do to test my payload on spacenear? it's being accepted by habitat according to the log parser
[22:26] <DL1SGP> there is no support jet I guess.
[22:26] <g4sgx-iain> It has to be a helicopter then i reckon. ;)
[22:26] <enkidu> DL1SGP: 74HC4060 with 7.68mhz quartz looks nice
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[22:27] <DL1SGP> enkidu, I am way too exhausted to check on anything like that right now, but I am well sure that you know what you are doing.
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[22:28] <m3eav> on his way back up slowly?
[22:28] <DL1SGP> g4sgx-iain: helicopter would be more useful for erm, outdoor rescue than a jet
[22:29] <DL1SGP> he did such a "I go real low" maneuvre before
[22:30] <g4sgx-iain> Hmm 381 feet now according to delorme.
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[22:30] <fsphil> not so good
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[22:31] <g4sgx-iain> thats a bit less than that mountain he over
[22:32] <g4sgx-iain> He came in quick, must have been in a hurry to land.
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[22:34] <DL1SGP> yeah 5901ft to 381ft within 10 minutes is a quick descent
[22:34] <fsphil> SP3OSJ has a nice float
[22:35] <enkidu> it could be downdraft
[22:35] <enkidu> fsphil: yeah, however, I dont know how to find rtty signals
[22:35] <fsphil> by ear :) they're quite a distinctive sound
[22:36] <enkidu> fsphil: is he broadcasting all the time, or in intervals?
[22:36] <fsphil> I don't know -- some payloads do either
[22:36] <m3eav> his rtty is every tn mins
[22:36] <m3eav> ten
[22:36] <fsphil> this is the foil floater though
[22:36] <m3eav> ah
[22:37] <fsphil> bad timing that one, everyone is distracted by the crazy balloon guy :)
[22:37] <m3eav> lol yeah, it is somewhat intersting by comparison
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[22:38] <m3eav> a crazy person in a yellow inflatable dinghy flying across an ocean on a fistful of party ballons....sounds like something for Hangover 4 movie
[22:39] <enkidu> even in worst exam session I had no such a hangover
[22:39] <m3eav> New foundland has him ....
[22:39] <enkidu> worst thing I dont remember was trying to get back home using suburban train
[22:40] <fsphil> that should really be oldfoundland by now
[22:40] <enkidu> whale night back and forth, I waked up passing station I entered onboard
[22:40] <m3eav> i am not even going to go there on what i have done under influence over the years.:-)
[22:40] <m3eav> cough.....
[22:40] <g4sgx-iain> He's only 2km from the coast though
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[22:42] <g4sgx-iain> He he, I don't even have to be drunk.
[22:42] <m3eav> hardcore......
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[22:42] <g4sgx-iain> :) Gotta crash, nite all.
[22:43] <m3eav> night!!!
[22:43] <m3eav> aprs and tracker not telling nothing
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[22:43] <mikestir> hmmm. why would habitat say the fix is invalid when it's not?
[22:44] <enkidu> I know only one thing: when I will have kids, there will be no balloons around. They are too dangerous
[22:45] <m3eav> i wonder if he goes down he will start rowing madly to make a good landing?
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[22:46] <m3eav> delorme has him on land at 0mph and 150ft el
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[22:47] <DL1SGP> let's hope he is OK
[22:48] <m3eav> yeah still apretty balsy thing to do
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[22:51] <m3eav> landed a long way from a road by the looks of it
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[22:55] <DL1SGP> info from dailyecho on some flight facts "Hell take oxygen through tubes feeding into his nose between 12,000 and 18,000ft and up to 25,000ft hell wear a full oxygen mask. "
[22:56] <m3eav> right now he neeeds AAA.....
[22:56] <DL1SGP> "Should the adventure fail, Trappe has already said he will change to a cold water immersion suit that will preserve him if he ditches into the freezing north Atlantic."
[22:56] <m3eav> thankfully he ditched on land it seems
[22:57] <DL7AD> no noise anymore on SP3OSJ's signal :)
[22:59] <m3eav> not here
[23:00] <m3eav> night all, wait to read news of it tomorrow, hopefully he will be recovered all ok
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[23:00] <DL1SGP> have a sweet and restful night Ian
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[23:03] <WillTablet> Anyone still up?
[23:03] <DL7AD> yes
[23:03] <WillTablet> Hi
[23:04] <WillTablet> Can't sleep
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[23:04] <enkidu> and for me its time to sleep
[23:05] <DL7AD> den hört einfach nur keiner
[23:05] <DL7AD> glaub
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[23:11] <WillTablet> I translate that to the heard only not no-er
[23:11] <WillTablet> My german is awful.
[23:11] <WillTablet> I speak kein German
[23:11] chrisg7ogx (5699a750@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.153.167.80) joined #highaltitude.
[23:12] <WillTablet> kein German whatsoever
[23:12] <DL1SGP> :)
[23:12] <WillTablet> Was I close?
[23:12] <chrisg7ogx> hello
[23:13] <DL1SGP> hi again chrisg7ogx
[23:13] <DL1SGP> I gonna call it a day, see you again in a few hours everyone!
[23:13] <chrisg7ogx> hi dl1sgp just a quick look before zzzz you should be zzz!
[23:13] <WillTablet> Oh
[23:13] <WillTablet> My day should have finished a few hours ago
[23:14] <DL1SGP> that what I keep telling myself each night WillTablet
[23:14] <DL1SGP> never works :)
[23:14] <WillTablet> I found the temptation of getting up and listening to bee gees music in my tablet too much
[23:14] <DL1SGP> Life is too interesting to miss things while sleeping
[23:15] <chrisg7ogx> yes we will all have a sleep soon enough!! any luck with the manned balloon?
[23:15] <DL1SGP> anyhow I am afk now and watch the tracker of SP3OSJ to fall asleep :)
[23:15] <WillTablet> In the event of something happening to me
[23:15] <WillTablet> There is something I would like you all to see
[23:15] <chrisg7ogx> oh oh!
[23:15] <WillTablet> It's just a photograph of someone that I kew
[23:16] <WillTablet> *knew
[23:16] <WillTablet> Have you seen my wife Mr. Jones?
[23:16] <WillTablet> Do you know what it's like on the outside?
[23:16] <chrisg7ogx> of the dodmwdmwdme?
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[23:17] <chrisg7ogx> of the dome?
[23:17] <WillTablet> Dome?
[23:17] <WillTablet> Great song
[23:17] <chrisg7ogx> series my wife s atching tephen King
[23:18] <WillTablet> Well you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk
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[23:18] <chrisg7ogx> bee gees
[23:18] Action: WillTablet stops
[23:18] <eroomde> i've defeated the armko
[23:18] <eroomde> arko*
[23:18] Action: WillTablet hides from eroomde
[23:18] <eroomde> after a meal out in london he's gone into shutdown mode
[23:18] <chrisg7ogx> next ballon tx in 2 mins
[23:19] <eroomde> we've just got on the bus back
[23:19] <WillTablet> eroomde is he staying near you?
[23:19] <eroomde> in my house
[23:19] <eroomde> so yes
[23:19] <WillTablet> Heh
[23:19] <WillTablet> You know him that well?
[23:20] <eroomde> by virtue of him staying at my house i guess so
[23:20] <eroomde> i met him when i was in LA in feb
[23:20] <WillTablet> Ah ha ha ha staying alive staying alive.
[23:21] <chrisg7ogx> g night
[23:21] <WillTablet> Sorry my dad sings loudly on the exercise bike. It'd be inappropriate to sing in real life atm
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[23:21] <WillTablet> Like he does
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[23:21] <WillTablet> So I sing along to the bee gees on IRC
[23:22] <WillTablet> eroomde how was his flight?
[23:22] <eroomde> i have no idea
[23:22] <WillTablet> I heard he was a nervous flyer
[23:22] <WillTablet> You didn't ask? :-)
[23:23] <eroomde> no
[23:24] <eroomde> it wasn't up on the list
[23:24] <WillTablet> Heh
[23:24] <WillTablet> Started the physics course btw
[23:24] <WillTablet> It's a little tough
[23:24] Action: Laurenceb_ looks at one sided conversation...
[23:25] <WillTablet> But then again, if I don't learn more physics then I'll fall behind in everything
[23:25] <DL7AD> why has been b-11 deleted?
[23:25] Action: WillTablet looks at Laurenceb_ talking to him/herself
[23:29] <eroomde> well, this is fun
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[23:43] <Laurenceb_> no updates from the clusterballoon
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[23:45] <LeoBodnar> good night !
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[23:49] <OY1R> How's that balloon guy doing ?
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 13 2013