highaltitude.log.20130910

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[00:18] <crash_18974> has there been any 'press' on these B-xx flights?
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[00:45] <K9JKM> test
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[02:04] <tweetBot> @shinjinof: ¢óÆÊKDD
[02:04] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: B-11 and B-12 Pico Balloons Break World Duration Record http://t.co/hRcRjiaRWv #amsat #hamr #ukhas #hab #amateurradio
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[04:07] <heathkid> the aliens don't use AM
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[04:10] <heathkid> well... most don't
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[05:51] <jcoxon> morning
[05:52] <jcoxon> so is B11/B12 mission concluded now?
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[06:08] <DL7AD_> .
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[06:29] <x-f> gmmorning
[06:30] <astrobiologist> are B-11 and B-12 still alive? The last plots seem to be from lunchtime yesterday
[06:30] <x-f> SP3OSJ, how much does your pico payload weight?
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[06:31] <x-f> astrobiologist, they went out of receiver range
[06:32] <x-f> B-11 was presumably heard from Cyprus late last night, but for technical issues was not decoded, afaik
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[06:33] <x-f> or it was Crete..
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[06:34] <x-f> i hope B-12 will be heard today somewhere close to the Black sea
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[06:48] <SP3OSJ> 23g
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[06:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Morning!
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[06:56] <SP3OSJ> read more: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/Lyb_Fw6z2eM
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[06:59] <x-f> thanks
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[07:03] <DL1SGP> good morning everyone
[07:03] <x-f> morning
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[07:06] <DL1SGP> good morning LeoBodnar
[07:06] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[07:07] <arko> Morgen
[07:08] <LeoBodnar> morn arko
[07:08] <DL1SGP> morning arko
[07:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Morning guys - Any news on the 'B' twins?
[07:09] <DL1SGP> as of this morning, negative
[07:09] <arko> Theyll be back
[07:09] <DL1SGP> yes!
[07:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Well we can all hope an Rx will pick one or both of them up soon
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[07:10] <domlin> morning all
[07:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is there any way of plotting likely trajectories from previous data?
[07:10] <DL1SGP> good morning domlin
[07:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Domlin
[07:11] <DL1SGP> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/3-day-prediction-B11-B12.png
[07:11] <LeoBodnar> B-12 is heading for Armenia tonight, do you have any contacts there?
[07:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sadly not
[07:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks DL1SGP
[07:11] <LeoBodnar> B-12 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/17054_trj001.gif
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[07:12] <DL1SGP> might reach somebody through HF in Georgia, LeoBodnar
[07:13] <LeoBodnar> Would be cool
[07:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> There's a couple of towers in Russia
[07:13] <LeoBodnar> B-12 is now over Crimea
[07:13] <DL1SGP> they are usually quite active in morning hours on PSK modes
[07:13] <DL1SGP> but primary aim for now is the consumption of breakfast
[07:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
[07:14] <LeoBodnar> Well put, I need a coffee fix
[07:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I'm going to have to go soon. Be back later though.
[07:14] <domlin> you can't have enough coffee at this time in the morning
[07:14] <domlin> especially when you've been at work for 45 minutes already :(
[07:14] Action: DL1SGP sends a mug of coffee ((|_|
[07:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> I do have a nice cup of tea here...
[07:15] <DL1SGP> shh our troll might blame you for being stereotypical Steve :D
[07:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL :D
[07:15] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[07:15] <DL1SGP> Welcome back Kip
[07:16] <domlin> DL1SGP: I hadn't even considered breakfast this morning. :|
[07:16] <DL1SGP> ok breakfast time, bbiab
[07:16] <DL1SGP> domlin: that was not the best idea I bet
[07:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Breakfast, the most important meal of the day
[07:16] <domlin> DL1SGP: tell me about it! I may have to go and buy all of the pastries available in the company
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[07:17] <LeoBodnar_> CU later G0TDJ_Steve
[07:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Roger Leo
[07:18] <LeoBodnar_> HUnger can kill, take a break.
[07:19] <domlin> have a break, have an android
[07:19] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[07:20] <SP3OSJ> Leo "Qualatex" Comp. must pay a $ for you. This is a good advertising company
[07:21] <SP3OSJ> Silver ring balloons 36" very very goood!
[07:22] <enkidu> :) SP3OSJ is your balloon officialy dead?
[07:23] <eroomde_> oh yes breakfast
[07:23] <SP3OSJ> no
[07:23] <enkidu> where would it be now?
[07:24] <LeoBodnar_> SP3OSJ: they are very good indeed!
[07:26] <enkidu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/17662_trj001.gif
[07:26] <enkidu> crap
[07:26] <arko> eroomde_: tell andy that i will be eating my own shoe, turns out spacex does launch from vandenburg and will infact be launching a f9 next week
[07:26] <eroomde_> willdo
[07:27] <arko> Cant believe i forgot they launch from there
[07:27] <arko> This construction is an alarm clock
[07:28] <enkidu> SP3OSJ: try pressurized approach next time. is less vulnerable to temperature changes
[07:29] <enkidu> ie. no pressure valve
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[07:33] <SP3OSJ> yes you are right
[07:34] <enkidu> now due to temp. changes it was losing helium
[07:34] <LeoBodnar_> arko: do you have any contacts in Armenia?
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[07:34] <arko> Yes, ill send out an email
[07:35] <LeoBodnar_> Here is the prediction for today: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/B-12-prediction.png
[07:35] <LeoBodnar_> Cheers!
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[07:39] <HixWork> is B12 still aloft LeoBodnar ? spacenear not updated yet
[07:39] <fsphil> no receivers
[07:40] <Rebounder> LeoBodnar_: have to switch to longrange tracking for future projects? :)
[07:40] <fsphil> all the long range options are quiet heavy
[07:40] <mfa298> as well as a ukhas chase speedboat, it looks like we need a ukhas chase jet
[07:41] <fsphil> mfa298: nah, SATELLITE!
[07:41] <LeoBodnar_> or a sat
[07:41] <fsphil> polar orbit that brings it over the UK every few hours
[07:41] <Rebounder> fsphil: you mean antennawise?
[07:41] <fsphil> nah, actual satellite
[07:41] <fsphil> with a 434mhz receiver
[07:42] <Rebounder> fsphil: switch to HF?
[07:42] <HixWork> µRockblox
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[07:42] <fsphil> imagine all the noise that would receive. every 434mhz device in northern europe would be visible
[07:42] <fsphil> Rebounder: HF is heavy .. needs a large antenna
[07:45] <HixWork> totally non HAB related question. If I have a wireless device on 902-928MHz, If i use SDR to get the exact frequency, is there a method to interpret the data being sent?
[07:45] <Rebounder> fsphil: right. but what other options are there? iridium expensive?
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[07:46] <Rebounder> HixWork: you mean identify what modulation is uses?
[07:47] <HixWork> well, see what is being sent. some kind of wireless version of a logic analyser
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[07:47] <fsphil> odds are its AM or FM
[07:47] <fsphil> could try demodulating it with either, and see what the output waveform looks like
[07:47] <Rebounder> HixWork: well, an sdr is just an A/D...
[07:47] <Rebounder> ah
[07:48] <Rebounder> well, you could allways record som transmissions and analyze in suitable tool
[07:48] <HixWork> got any recommendations as to toos please?
[07:49] <HixWork> *tools
[07:49] <HixWork> its a wireless camera trigger I got given, wanted to see if I could knock up compatible receivers
[07:49] <mfa298> the sdr waterfall is potentially a good tool to see what's happening
[07:52] <Rebounder> HixWork: gnuradio is very flexibel, but take some time to get started with
[07:52] <HixWork> cool - cheers
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[07:59] <DL1SGP> and back
[08:02] <domlin> nice breakfast, DL1SGP ?
[08:02] <DL1SGP> of course :)
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[08:06] <DL1SGP> we have an active echolink link station in armenia
[08:07] <DL1SGP> and another repeater
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[08:11] <LeoBodnar_> Do you have to be a HAM to send messages via QRZ.com?
[08:11] <DL1SGP> I guess you can register as SWL
[08:12] <DL1SGP> I am waiting for mail to come in and then will be calling Armenia
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[08:12] <DL1SGP> QRZ,com had something posted on the project, maybe you want to contact them for a follow up LeoBodnar_
[08:13] <DL1SGP> also Southgate ARC would be a good location to post news too
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[08:16] <LeoBodnar> I am trying to get in touch with UU4JLM or RV6FW that are shown on the map on the flightpath.
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> Not sure how do you reach a ham off air
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[08:18] <gonzo__> qrz.com and see if there is an email address on there
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[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> good morning
[08:19] <DL1SGP> I will check
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[08:22] <oldswl> UU4JLM his website seems down but his is on eQSL apparently
[08:22] <DL1SGP> LeoBodnar_: sent you the data through direct message
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[08:35] <DL7AD_> a balloon was heared in bulgaria!
[08:35] <DL7AD_> from LZ1CLA
[08:35] <DL7AD_> but without decode
[08:35] <DL7AD_> it is too weak
[08:35] <x-f> !
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[08:36] <PE2G> Gutenmorgen DL7AD, when did he rx it?
[08:36] <DL7AD_> 20min ago
[08:37] <PE2G> Cool
[08:37] <DL7AD_> he wrote an mail to me
[08:37] <DL7AD_> should be b12 i think
[08:37] <DL7AD_> he thought it waw b11
[08:37] <DL1SGP> Goedenmorgen PE2G en Guten Morgen DL7AD_
[08:37] <gonzo__> if you can get a telem string from him, someone here will graft it in manually
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[08:40] <DL1SGP> good morning yo5pjb
[08:40] <DL1SGP> erm
[08:40] <DL1SGP> yo3ksr
[08:40] <DL1SGP> :D
[08:40] <yo3ksr> hi
[08:40] Action: DL1SGP takes a sip of his coffee
[08:40] <yo3ksr> no news from b-12 :(
[08:40] <yo5pjb> good morning DL1SGP
[08:41] <DL1SGP> oh hi yo5pjb :) thank you
[08:41] <yo3ksr> salut 5pjb
[08:41] <yo5pjb> salutare 3ksr
[08:41] <yo5pjb> well... balloons were lost... thinking about testing HF instead of UHF
[08:42] <yo5pjb> I'm curious what has LeoBodnar to said related with this
[08:42] <DL1SGP> if there was a faint decode in Bulgaria 20min ago I assume it is currently over Black Sea
[08:43] <DL1SGP> would be cool if the station near Sevastopol was on air :)
[08:43] <yo5pjb> yo3ksr: is the ts2000 still on ?
[08:43] <yo3ksr> yes is on
[08:43] <yo5pjb> I see that has 17hours from last contact
[08:43] <yo5pjb> ok
[08:43] <yo3ksr> but no signal from b-12
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[08:44] <LeoBodnar_> B-12 should be above Crimea at the moment so ducting over Black Sea to Bulgaria makes sense.
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[08:45] <DL1SGP> I have a staiton from Krasnodar on PSK31 in 15m band, gonna try to work the station and talk him into listening :)
[08:45] <eroomde> it should move quickly over Crimea if it spends the night-in-gale
[08:45] Action: eroomde sees himself out
[08:45] <yo5pjb> I will send a mail to uu4jlm
[08:46] <LeoBodnar_> lol eroomde
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[08:47] <yo3ksr> DL1SGP have you send email to turkey hams?
[08:48] <LeoBodnar_> eroomde: you need to wind down
[08:48] <yo3ksr> or someone
[08:49] <DL1SGP> yes I did send email to turkey
[08:49] <DL1SGP> no answer
[08:49] <yo3ksr> to bad
[08:49] <PE2G> I've sent mail to Western Turkey. No reply.
[08:50] <DL1SGP> so now I am trying to get in touch with people directly on air :)
[08:50] <yo3ksr> echolink?
[08:50] <DL1SGP> 15m :)
[08:50] <yo3ksr> :)
[08:50] <DL1SGP> also tried echolink for armenia
[08:51] <HixWork> LeoBodnar any chance of switching B12 to 121.5MHz? :)
[08:51] <PE2G> What would be B-12's course after Crimea?
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[08:53] <HixWork> Florence :D
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[08:54] <LeoBodnar_> PE2G: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/B-12-prediction-24h.png
[08:54] <PE2G> Thanks Leo
[08:54] <LeoBodnar_> Caucasus then Kazakhstan
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[08:55] <LeoBodnar_> B-11 is spending few days over Libya and coming back
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[08:55] <DL1SGP> š±»·¼­Á± ñ sv1iw
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[08:56] <sv1iw> DL1SGP š±»·¼­Á±
[08:56] <LZ1CLA> Hi Guys
[08:56] <PE2G> So no need to approach HAMs in Turkey anymore
[08:56] <DL1SGP> Hi LZ1CLA
[08:56] <yo3ksr> hi LZ1CLA
[08:56] <LZ1CLA> I am trying to decode the signal from B11/B12
[08:56] <LZ1CLA> i hear it on the radio
[08:56] <LeoBodnar_> oO
[08:57] <DL1SGP> woot!
[08:57] <sv1iw> PE2G Its probably near by Cyprus or further...
[08:57] <yo3ksr> 1CLA you receive signal from them?
[08:57] <LZ1CLA> Yep i receive something
[08:57] <LeoBodnar_> Must be B-12
[08:57] <LZ1CLA> on the frequency
[08:57] <LZ1CLA> 434.500
[08:57] <LZ1CLA> but cannot decode it
[08:57] <yo3ksr> in what part of bulgary are you?
[08:57] <LeoBodnar_> Can you record it as well as a sound file?
[08:58] <LZ1CLA> I have recorded the signal
[08:58] <LZ1CLA> on a file
[08:58] <yo3ksr> i'm from bucharest but i do not have signal here
[08:58] <LZ1CLA> I am from Sofia
[08:58] <yo3ksr> hmm
[08:58] <yo5pjb> humm... mee too
[08:58] <DL1SGP> please share the file with us :)
[08:58] <LZ1CLA> how
[08:59] <DL1SGP> you can email it to me if you like
[08:59] <yo3ksr> file transfer
[08:59] <yo3ksr> google drive
[08:59] <yo3ksr> :)
[08:59] <LZ1CLA> mailing will be faster
[08:59] <LZ1CLA> give me one email
[08:59] <DL1SGP> mail to dl1sgp@felix-techie.org
[08:59] <DL1SGP> I will then share it on one of my servers
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[09:01] <yo5pjb> It's very possible to be something else there, we have yesterday in the evening a false alarm from romanian ham radio operator (located in Bucharest) who had recorded something digital on that frequency. I guess the ISM is used a lot in such a big city like Sofia
[09:02] <LZ1CLA> ok, mail has been sent
[09:02] <DL1SGP> yesterday afternoon I had DomEX16 in my ears without listening to anything... I think I was listening too much :)
[09:02] <DL1SGP> and received thanks!
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[09:03] <LZ1CLA> ok, here is something from another ham near Sofia from 20 hours ago
[09:03] <LZ1CLA> $$B-11,6689,105814,42.4573,27.3388,9102,7,1,4.05,0.69*ef53 $$B-11,6690,105851,42.6461,27.2714,265,4,1,4.05,0.69*db88
[09:04] <LeoBodnar_> I have been hearing a beacon on Breda globaltuners servers on 434.500 that looked exactly like B-12 but was 8 seconds instead of 3. Kept me excited all night but didn't come to anything in the end. It was just local QRM.
[09:05] <LZ1CLA> $$B-11,6688,105734,42.4666,27.3337,9105,5,3,4.05,0.68*3dff
[09:05] <DL1SGP> sorry LZ1CLA but that is not the Balloon :((
[09:06] <LZ1CLA> He couldnt pass it to the tracking site however
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[09:06] <DL1SGP> still will upload :)
[09:06] <LeoBodnar_> Thank you for the report LZ1CLA !
[09:06] <LZ1CLA> Can you send me audio file from the balloon, so i know when i hear it :)
[09:07] <DL1SGP> http://felix-techie.org/Reception_LZ1CLA.m4a
[09:08] <LeoBodnar_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFsxAN7K_yw
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[09:09] <LZ1CLA> Oh i see
[09:09] <LZ1CLA> Havent heard this kind of signal here
[09:09] <LZ1CLA> But i hope the log from my fellow ham will be helpful
[09:10] <DL1SGP> it is, cause it has a position :)
[09:10] <LZ1CLA> nice
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[09:12] <fsphil> oh dear
[09:13] <DL1SGP> basically it tells us that the B-11 Ballon was at N42.466 and E27.337 in an altitude of 9105m with 4.05V from Battery and 0.68V from Solar Panel... the remaining numbers are timestamp, number of satellites, and a checksum
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[09:13] <LZ1CLA> We are preparing Balloon here in Sofia
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[09:14] <LZ1CLA> Planing to put crossband repeater onboard
[09:14] <DL1SGP> LZ1CLA: do you know wher LZ5YL is at in Bulgaria?
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[09:14] <LZ1CLA> Sorry, dont know him
[09:15] <DL1SGP> good :) not listed on qrz.com :)
[09:16] <LZ1CLA> Why dont you use APRS for tracking your balloon ?
[09:16] <LZ1CLA> there are lots of gates around
[09:16] <fsphil> B-11 so far has 124 different receiver callsigns (some duplicate users with slightly different callsigns)
[09:17] <fsphil> B-12 has 74
[09:17] <DL1SGP> heh, people like me receiving with main call and then suffix _remote
[09:17] <fsphil> yea
[09:17] <fsphil> but even with those, that's a huge number of stations
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[09:17] <DL1SGP> indeed
[09:17] <fsphil> *without
[09:18] <DL1SGP> I wonder if we could add that telemetry reported from Bulgaria on the map :)
[09:18] <LeoBodnar> woot! 100+ receivers
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[09:18] <fsphil> I hope those russian stations hang around for a bit
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[09:19] <fsphil> they're in a good spot if the winds swing the payloads around again
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[09:23] <yo3ksr> i take a look at the map and we need a station on turkey :(
[09:24] <enkidu> B12 should be broadcasting now
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[09:24] <enkidu> in range of uu4qlm and rv6fw
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[09:26] <nats`> hi
[09:26] <yo3ksr> hi nats
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[09:28] <arko> Wasps everywhere here huh?
[09:29] <arko> We have lots of bees but they don't really sting
[09:29] <DL1SGP> UA6YGN is on 20m PSK31 (14072.534) but not hearing me, he would be useful
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[09:31] <nats`> need advice I need about 5 meter or coaxial (I think to put SMA and if needed I'll use adaptor) what type of cable should I take to reduce loss (I always forget the good reference)
[09:31] <fsphil> there are fewer wasps this year than usual arko
[09:31] <fsphil> but yea they're horrible animals
[09:31] <arko> Blah
[09:31] <arko> They are jerks alright
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[09:32] <Babs> to be fair there are a lot of WASPS in the US too. only ours die in September.
[09:32] <fsphil> "Oh look, someone minding their own business and not bothering me at all. Lets get 'em!"
[09:32] <DL1SGP> nats`: what frequency do you plan to use the 5m on :)
[09:33] <DL1SGP> http://www.w4rp.com/ref/coax.html
[09:33] <Laurenceb> no sign of B-12
[09:33] <Laurenceb> but no sign of active receivers
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[09:34] <nats`> thanks for the link DL1SGP I have no fixed frequency for now it's only for listening so I'll try to take some with good impedance in the UHF bande
[09:34] <HixWork2> wait until the asian Hornets arrive
[09:35] <fsphil> sounds like a rugby team
[09:35] <nats`> I could always put a little PA on some band if I have trouble
[09:35] <nats`> (please don't talk about bees wasps and other crap like that I have a fucking phobia of these)
[09:35] <Laurenceb> heh
[09:35] <DL1SGP> good plan nats`
[09:36] <nats`> I would revise that when having a license to TX
[09:36] <nats`> will be more a problem for the lambda length
[09:39] <yo5pjb> nats`: what frequency are you using ?
[09:39] <yo5pjb> if it's HF an RG58 is enough :)
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[09:44] <gonzo__> nats` if you use a receive preamp, close to the antenna, then coax loss does not really matter. RG58 will be fine for UHF with a mast mounted preamp/LNA
[09:44] <mfa298> nats`: if you're after UHF rg-213 is a favourite, but you'll probably be looking to use bnc or N plugs
[09:44] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12247_trj001.gif
[09:45] <mfa298> for 5m of coax rg58 (or possibly even rg174) are likely to be fine (I've used that length of rg58 on antennas for uhf)
[09:46] <arko> fsphil lol
[09:46] <gonzo__> if money and cable size is not a problem, I would use the best low loss cable you can find.
[09:47] <DL1SGP> I would use RG174, less weight, smaller diameter, maybe better for SMA
[09:47] <gonzo__> Aircell or RG213/214
[09:47] <gonzo__> RG174 is sooooo lossy
[09:47] <DL1SGP> but not on 5m gonzo__
[09:47] <gonzo__> then again, given enough gain in an LNA, you coyuld use ut
[09:47] <gonzo__> it
[09:48] <craag> RG-8X mini is a good one for UHF runs.
[09:49] <DL1SGP> in any case, if you use an SDR like those cheapish dongles... use long USB and get the SDR as close to antenna as possible :)
[09:49] <mfa298> I'd agree with Gonzo, always use the best cable possible.
[09:49] <enkidu> DL1SGP: not really :)
[09:49] <gonzo__> a habamp is such a simple device to use, it makes all the loss problems go away. (If put at the mast)
[09:49] <DL1SGP> enkidu: might not be a solution for your requirement of filters in between :)
[09:50] <enkidu> properly shielded cable made of copper not alu
[09:50] <enkidu> I havent build broadcast centres around :P
[09:50] <gonzo__> there are lots of ways to getr away with small/lossy cable, but only in specific situations. Then you regert it when you get a licence and want to TX
[09:51] <navrac_work> I use LMR400 - but thats cos I got a load cheap
[09:52] <gonzo__> in very RF agressive environments, then even a habamp (or similar high dynamic range lna's) are going to need filters up front
[09:52] <gonzo__> LDF4-50
[09:52] <fsphil> original habamp had a filter on the input, before the amp
[09:52] <gonzo__> those saw filters ate too lossy to be up front really
[09:53] <navrac_work> I must admit its so RF quiet round here I'm thinking ablut removing the filter off my habamp
[09:53] <fsphil> the new version has the amp first
[09:53] <gonzo__> I'd leave the habamp as is, and get a DDK LNA in that case
[09:53] <fsphil> where I live I'd be worried about local signals overloading the amp
[09:53] <gonzo__> that is the way to do it phil
[09:54] <gonzo__> ahead of the LNA it really needs to be a low loss filter.
[09:54] <fsphil> I've a really loud tetra transmitter not far from here at 399mhz
[09:54] <gonzo__> There are designs for 100meg broadcast notch filters on the DDK website
[09:54] <gonzo__> that is close (freq wise)
[09:55] <gonzo__> a low loss helicak filter should be enough through
[09:55] <gonzo__> or interdigital filter
[09:58] <dl7ad> Good morning
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[09:58] <dl7ad> Has been b12 or 11 received yet?
[10:00] <DL1SGP> negative
[10:01] <nats`> yo5pjb gonzo__ mfa298 thanks for your answer
[10:02] <nats`> I think I'll stay with SMA because I have many equipment and personnal stuff in SMA
[10:02] <nats`> DL1SGP for rtl sdr stuff I did a cooled casing with independant 5V filtered
[10:02] <nats`> if I don't use that I see the beautful spike of every PLL in my computer
[10:03] <DL1SGP> eww
[10:03] <LeoBodnar_> morning dl7ad
[10:03] <dl7ad> Good morning LeoBodnar_
[10:03] <mfa298> nats`: you might find you're limited by the cable type, For the better cables which are often larger diameter (like rg213) you'll struggle to find sma plugs. Although one option is to make a short pigtail with something smaller (like rg58 or rg-8x mini)
[10:04] <nats`> in last solution I have some good N to SMA
[10:04] <nats`> N is god for UHF no ?
[10:04] <mfa298> N is a good connector for UHF
[10:05] <nats`> in fact at work we already have 2M N cord
[10:05] <nats`> but that's fucking expensive
[10:05] <nats`> 300 euros the cable
[10:05] <nats`> but used on a SA
[10:05] <nats`> I'll not need such quality I think
[10:06] <yo5pjb> 300euro for 2meters of cable ?
[10:06] <nats`> yep
[10:06] <yo5pjb> has that gold insertion ? :)
[10:06] <nats`> nop but a tiny loss
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[10:06] <mfa298> one of the key things to compare is the loss at the frequencies you're interested in (although check that you're looking at the same values. Some places do loss per 100ft and some per 100m)
[10:06] <nats`> it's plugged on a 40GHz 128MHz BW SA
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[10:07] <nats`> I'm looking at the DL1SGP link :)
[10:07] <nats`> I think I'll take the best I can fit without hack on sma
[10:07] <yo5pjb> I cannot think what cable could cost so much.. even those extra expensive cable used on gsm relays (more than an inch in diameter) are cheaper
[10:07] <nats`> :)
[10:08] <yo5pjb> 40ghz.. well.. there is another story :)
[10:08] <nats`> let me check the manufacturer (they love to sell lab stuff overly priced)
[10:09] <yo5pjb> LMR240 is another good choice, thinner than rg213 but is not so flexible
[10:09] <gonzo__> only cable sold to HIFI buffs should ever cost that much!
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[10:09] <nats`> http://www.suhner.com/site/index.cfm
[10:09] <yo5pjb> you have to think to that also, if you need flexible or rigid cable
[10:09] <mfa298> you might be paying a fair bit for a cal certificate if its for lab equipment
[10:10] <nats`> mfa298 that's certain they give a full test report with each cable
[10:10] <rogerponts> Hi, if I use the NTX2 I need and antenna on the payload ?
[10:10] <nats`> and since we have many of them they are all "different"
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[10:10] <nats`> yo5pjb I think I prefere flex one because it'll be on a balcony for now
[10:10] <gonzo__> nats` you are going to have problems finding SMA connectors for the larger diameter cables. So I suggest terminate the coax with N types and use an adaptor to SMA
[10:11] <nats`> gonzo__ that's a possible solution I already have N to SMA adaptor
[10:11] <gonzo__> if it's a reasonable quality adaptor, the extra loss will be very small
[10:11] <nats`> pretty good I need to recheck on the VNA but was not really important compared to the cable itself
[10:11] <astrobiologist> SMA connectors are only rated for 1000 connects/disconnects!
[10:11] <gonzo__> I use N types for everything
[10:11] <astrobiologist> So I am getting worried about breaking my handheld if I swap aerials too much
[10:12] <mfa298> although for a 5m cable the difference in loss between the cables might be similar to the loss of using adapters
[10:12] <gonzo__> they tend to get a buuild up of swarf long before 1000 connects, so worth a brush, blow out regularly
[10:13] <astrobiologist> So I am setting myself up as follows: SMA male to female, bought off eBay - no idea of the quality or velocity etc
[10:13] <gonzo__> but I would not worry about wearing it out.
[10:13] <nats`> astrobiologist we never break a pcb connector in SMA
[10:13] <nats`> many cable yes but that could be replaced quickly
[10:13] <mfa298> at 400MHz on a 3m cable it's around .3dB difference between rx-8x and rg-213
[10:14] <nats`> so rx-8x seems to be a good quality/price
[10:14] <astrobiologist> That's what I thought nats, use cables wherever possible. Cheapo stuff off eBay, see what difference it causes using a SWR meter
[10:14] <gonzo__> more of a risk with SMA is the leverage of using thick cables. I tend to use a short flexy patch bacle for the final link to the radio.
[10:14] <nats`> astrobiologist for what I know in lab I only brek cable at the connection with the sma head
[10:15] <nats`> break
[10:15] <nats`> like headphon jack in fact :D
[10:15] <astrobiologist> SMA cable to SMA-PL259 adapter, onto my SWR meter, then another PL259-SMA adapter, then another SMA cable to my antenna
[10:15] <nats`> PL259 is good enough for UHF ?
[10:15] <nats`> I always though that was crap
[10:15] <gonzo__> if using an swr meter, you shoudl take the cable loss into account
[10:16] <gonzo__> ugh, pl295 is nasty, HF only, if you really must
[10:16] <astrobiologist> That's all the SWR meters seem to have, PL259s . I'd avoid them if I could
[10:16] <gonzo__> a meter with 259's on is probably going to be pretty crap anyway
[10:16] <nats`> I don't understood why manufacturer don't stick with sma and N type
[10:16] <astrobiologist> I can skip it of course, but I had been given to understand that it would be good to include an SWR meter in your setup if you could.
[10:17] <mfa298> for a 5m length if you can get sma's for it I'd probably go for rg-8x over rg-213. For a longer run I'd use rg213 (or better) and then a short pigtail of something like rg-8x.
[10:17] <craag> astrobiologist: If a SWR meter has PL259s, it's probably not designed for UHF
[10:17] <nats`> mfa298 I note that I'll see on a price level :)
[10:17] <nats`> have to go thanks for all your answer
[10:17] <astrobiologist> I haven't found any that have anything else craag
[10:17] <nats`> I'll let you know my choice :)
[10:18] <craag> mfa298: What make is your UHF swr meter?
[10:18] <gonzo__> theamateur market used 259's because that is traditio0nally what they expect and know about. But they really are nasty. I would not use above 30mhz. And on my system I only have them where I have not yet replaced them on the radio
[10:18] <mfa298> craag: same make as the hf-vhf one
[10:18] <astrobiologist> Decided to have a punt on this in the end: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200935833140?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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[10:19] <gonzo__> a good 2nd hand bird 43 is worth getting
[10:19] <astrobiologist> Within my budget and no great disaster if useless
[10:19] <rogerponts> Hi, if I use the NTX2 I need and antenna on the payload ?
[10:19] <craag> astrobiologist: Maybe have a go at replacing the connectors on it with N
[10:19] <astrobiologist> What make exactly mfa298? I'll put it on my xmas list
[10:19] <LeoBodnar_> Is MPSK more efficient than MFSK?
[10:19] <craag> Not sure why they'd make something like that with so239
[10:20] <navrac_work> rogerponts yes you do
[10:20] <gonzo__> what is inside is prob not worth the effort of changing the connectors
[10:20] <astrobiologist> craag everything I could find had so239s, even up a £100 or so. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place, but it was all so239s
[10:20] <rogerponts> ok, and what I need to connect the coaxial cable to the NXT2 ?
[10:21] <rogerponts> NTX2*
[10:21] <mfa298> astrobiologist: Daiwa
[10:21] <navrac_work> just solder the cable directly to the ntx2
[10:21] <astrobiologist> gonzo I'll see what it's like. What would be the warning signs if it is really crap?
[10:21] <gonzo__> a bird throughline is the inductry std. Not cheap but will lost forever
[10:22] <rogerponts> How ? Because in a coaxial cable there are a lot of cables ?
[10:22] <craag> astrobiologist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAIWA-CN-103N-140-525-MHZ-CROSS-NEEDLE-SWR-POWER-METER-W-N-TYPE-CONNECTORS-/310603424708?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Meters&hash=item48516823c4
[10:22] <gonzo__> though you do need elements for each band/power level. That can add up.
[10:22] <craag> arggh usa
[10:23] <craag> astrobiologist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Daiwa-CN103LN-Amateur-Radio-VHF-UHF-145-433Mhz-Power-SWR-Meter-N-TYPE-/380710922793?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item58a423aa29
[10:23] <gonzo__> astrobiologist, warnings signs, the price is prob the main indication.
[10:24] <gonzo__> I've used CB swr meters on 2mtrs, but they are not really trustable
[10:24] <astrobiologist> wierd innit craag? All the Daiwa ones seem to be U.S. All N plugs. Slaver, slaver. Maybe next time I'm over there. Hang on, you've just posted a new link...
[10:24] <mfa298> astrobiologist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121171187079
[10:26] <astrobiologist> Thanks mfa298, even better
[10:26] <astrobiologist> I'll out them on my watch list and start saving, have an SWR bake-off sometime
[10:26] <mfa298> otherwise look at the ham shops (although it's £80 at nevada)
[10:27] <craag> mfa298: Nice.. for that price I might consider grabbing one.
[10:27] <rogerponts> navrac_work: How ?
[10:27] <craag> mfa298: Yeah, 80 quid new, 60 quid used.
[10:27] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[10:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey guys
[10:28] <craag> Morning G0TDJ_Steve
[10:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Morning Phil :-)
[10:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ping Upu UpuWork
[10:29] <craag> I'm trying to work out whether I can do SSDV over DominoEX 88 with a Pi and a mbed ARM core with DAC on the UART.
[10:29] <gonzo__> ebay 261283359307
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> does dl-fldigi do Domex 88?
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[10:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> I've always wanted one of those gonzo__
[10:30] <craag> LeoBodnar: It's the fastest mode it does.
[10:30] <craag> *dominoex mode
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> mine has 22 only
[10:30] <enkidu> is dominoex supported by any hw transmitter, or it has to be done in software?
[10:30] <craag> Oh... I'm playing with upstream fldigi
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> fldigi or dl-fldigi?
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> K
[10:31] Action: craag pokes the habhub guys for an update...
[10:31] <craag> enkidu: Encoding has to be done in software
[10:31] <gonzo__> G0TDJ_Steve, also look out for the coaxial dynamics version. Takes the same elements and has a much nicer mirrired beter. Tend to be cheaper because people don'#t recognise them
[10:32] <gonzo__> beter=meter
[10:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks for the tip gonzo__
[10:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> I like mirrored meters. My first multi-meter had one
[10:32] <craag> boring old 600 baud RTTY SSDV it is then :/
[10:32] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: im going to try fractional-n using the spare pll on an f4discovery when i get time
[10:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> craag: If it ain't broke....
[10:33] <Laurenceb> think ive worked out a way to do it with only dma and timers
[10:33] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: ... it can be done better?
[10:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well OK
[10:33] <craag> :P
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> Analogue mirrored meters rune
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> rule rather
[10:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have both LeoBodnar
[10:34] <Laurenceb> http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0xkgpLzQu1qb09odo1_500.jpg
[10:34] <gonzo__> there is something mystic about then, so they rune as well
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: so far I can't tighter than few kHz step on dsPIC
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> *get
[10:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> My connection is awful today. I think I'll restart my Router - Again.... BRB
[10:35] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: using DMA on the F4 it would appear you get get crazy small steps
[10:35] <Laurenceb> if this fractional-n hack works
[10:35] <LeoBodnar_> Distance from launch: B-11 2477 km, B-12 1924 km
[10:35] <Laurenceb> it seems to be the proper way to do it, so it should work
[10:35] <Laurenceb> wow
[10:36] <Laurenceb> distance records too
[10:36] <Laurenceb> - for UK
[10:36] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: i could setup two transactions on DMA2
[10:36] <Laurenceb> first set by a timer update writes N to the pll2 N register
[10:37] <LeoBodnar_> I will be interested to see phase noise of this hack
[10:37] <Laurenceb> second on compare match writes N+1
[10:37] <enkidu> B12 still not found?
[10:37] <Laurenceb> then you change the timer compare register to adjust the fraction
[10:37] <Laurenceb> enkidu: seems to be no listerners :/ ?
[10:37] <Laurenceb> *listeners
[10:37] <LeoBodnar_> yeah twiddling two ratios with +1 offset
[10:37] <enkidu> seems that it is really cubesat time
[10:38] <astrobiologist> my rig will basically have to go on a bedside table - I have a very small flat - so I will give the probably crap but small SWR meter a try, could I borrow someone's Daiwa or "rune meter" at some point to compare?
[10:38] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: you can go one step further and use DMA1 to load the timer compare register at the baud rate
[10:38] <Laurenceb> so its fully DMA driven
[10:39] <Laurenceb> then another DMA from gps to the tx ring buffer...
[10:39] <Laurenceb> a transmitter with no CPU use lol
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[10:40] <LeoBodnar_> hehe do it with 74 series logic
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[10:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hope that's a bot better
[10:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> bit
[10:41] <gonzo__> the early met sondes were clockwork
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[10:41] <gonzo__> not sure how we would i'f a max7 to cogs though
[10:42] <astrobiologist> Just to confirm what is the gender of the N types on the back of the Daiwa SWR meters?
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[10:43] <gonzo__> usually female
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[10:47] <astrobiologist> Thanks gonzo - so the connectors that screw on to them, that is to say N type "male", have the sleeve with internal thread that bolts onto the female side?
[10:49] <craag> astrobiologist: yep
[10:49] <enkidu> astrobiologist: most of connectors do have, so have the N-type
[10:49] <LeoBodnar_> If B-11 survives 5 days it will be back to Crete/Cyprus/Turkey triangle http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13084_trj001.gif
[10:50] <Laurenceb> yeah but when
[10:50] <astrobiologist> thanks
[10:50] <Laurenceb> thats the problem
[10:50] <craag> 5days... a week ago we wouldn't think that possible!
[10:50] <enkidu> Laurenceb: but we do have receiver there
[10:50] <Laurenceb> i doubt theres someone prepared to listen over several days?
[10:50] <enkidu> libya
[10:50] <enkidu> enough will be, if one will listen to it few hours daily
[10:50] <enkidu> just to capture log
[10:52] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar_: http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MC100LVELT22-D.PDF
[10:53] <enkidu> sonde time
[10:54] <x-f> enkidu, now? it's 11 UTC
[10:55] <enkidu> its time for starting
[10:55] <x-f> the ones around me launch on ~11:40
[10:56] <enkidu> maybe, but prior to launch tey are calibrated on earth
[10:56] <x-f> ah, i'm too far to get them on the ground anyway
[10:58] <enkidu> i am too far too
[10:58] <gonzo__> astrobiologist, the gender usually refers to the central pin or socket
[10:58] <enkidu> plane so low? strange
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[10:59] <gonzo__> (does get a buit confusing when things like WLAN start using females in the plugs)
[10:59] <astrobiologist> and RP-SMA too!
[10:59] <astrobiologist> I'm slowly getting my head around it
[10:59] <navrac_work> oh god r-tnc and R-sma drive me nuts
[10:59] <astrobiologist> I might order some N type adapters now, in anticipation of testing later
[11:00] <astrobiologist> Some of the adapters look like they are all foreign suppliers
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[11:00] <astrobiologist> What I really need is N type male to SMA male and N type male to SMA female
[11:01] <astrobiologist> Then I can interchange just about any SWR meter with my current rig, SMA extension cables and antenna
[11:01] <mfa298> astrobiologist: there is a description and images of some connectors on the wiki http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rf_connectors
[11:01] <mfa298> I should probably do some more pictures
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[11:04] <gonzo__> a useful thing to have is an interseries kit. Where you have a selection of plug/socket ends that mate with a little threaded union. So you just pick the ends you want and make up adaptors.
[11:04] <astrobiologist> thanks mfa298. gonzo could you point me to one?
[11:04] <gonzo__> the greenpar ones are best, but expensive
[11:04] <gonzo__> I have a copy kit that was not expensive.
[11:04] <gonzo__> will look, stby
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[11:05] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ Hi, will keep receivers on and perhaps one in Rhodes too
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[11:06] <astrobiologist> (LIkely series of connections is: Rig sma female. Sma female to male cable. into sma female socket to pl259 or N type male converter. Into SWR meter N type or PL259 female conenctor. Then out again via another N type of PL259 female connector (why don't the SWR meters change the gender on the way out?)
[11:07] <mfa298> the standard tends to be that all equipment has female connectors and leads have male connectors
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[11:08] <astrobiologist> or for god's sake. I've lost myself. I'll go and write it down and try again. Anyway it's all the gender changes that confuse me
[11:08] <mfa298> although there are a few exceptions to that (some handhelds have male sma connectors)
[11:08] <Sven1987h> hello all
[11:08] <LeoBodnar_> thanks sv1iw ! It is expected to come back in4-5 days
[11:08] <astrobiologist> thanks for all your help! I'm just confusing myself
[11:09] <gonzo__> ebay 370891358110 - that is a bit expensive and usa. I brought a similar 25 piece kit for about 25quid a while ahi
[11:09] <gonzo__> gao
[11:09] <gonzo__> ago
[11:10] <nats`> mfa298 gonzo__ astrobiologist to finish on the reliability of (x)HF connector
[11:10] <nats`> I don't like N TYPE
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[11:10] <nats`> because you can easily break the screw
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[11:10] <nats`> (I don't know how to say "filetage")
[11:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi nerdsville_work :-)
[11:10] <nats`> I broke one on the SA because you need more force to screw it correctly
[11:10] <gonzo__> very useful to have when you are patching things together on the bench, but for fixed insallation I'd use specific connectors
[11:11] <gonzo__> adaptors
[11:11] <astrobiologist> nats <sob> please tell me this agony will end
[11:11] <nats`> this agony ?
[11:11] <gonzo__> adaptors and connectors are easy
[11:12] <astrobiologist> gonzo yes I would probably leave my handheld attached to a good sma cable and then connect things on and off the end of that (SWR meters, antenna etc)
[11:12] <astrobiologist> instead of killing my handheld's SMA buy accident
[11:12] <nats`> gonzo__ what I do now on lab equipment is to put a "fake" adaptor
[11:12] <nerdsville_work> Hi G0TDJ_Steve
[11:12] <astrobiologist> nats - which blimming plug to use
[11:12] <nats`> like N female to N male
[11:12] <nats`> and I screw the cord only on the adaptor
[11:13] <nats`> if I destroy the adaptor I don't care
[11:13] <nats`> (and the cord is the same)
[11:13] <nats`> that's more a problem fucking a 140k$ SA
[11:13] <gonzo__> good qual N types are machanically robust and good at RF. Then use adaptors to other devices if req (with patch cables if required to give some felxability)
[11:14] <gonzo__> port savers they are called, at least when you are using D type data connactors
[11:14] <nats`> port savers ?
[11:14] <nats`> that's the name of adaptor which is not an adaptor
[11:14] <nats`> ?
[11:14] <gonzo__> if you need force,, something is wrong
[11:14] <gonzo__> I think so nats`]#
[11:15] <nats`> oky nice to know :)
[11:15] <mfa298> it's never taken me much force to connect an N connector to equipment
[11:16] <nats`> mfa298 I don't know why this time was the bad one
[11:16] <nats`> other tips is to take lesser hard metal for the adaptor
[11:16] <mfa298> and if it's a 140k$ SA with 200$ patch leads I hope your N adapter is suiably calibrated, otherwise you're reducing the worth of the test gear.
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[11:17] <nats`> mfa298 like I said on this Agilent we put a 300$ cable
[11:17] <nats`> calibrated and all that stuff
[11:18] <mfa298> if I'm not sure the connector is seated properly I sometimes turn it as if I'm undoing if first as you can feel if it's going to go on cleanly
[11:18] <mfa298> if you've put a 2$ adapter in the middle of that then that calibration is going to be meaningless
[11:19] <nats`> you can imagine we don't take é$ adaptor for that
[11:19] <nats`> I'll certainly do that for my home setup
[11:20] <nats`> but here I talk about Wifi/GSM/3G certification test
[11:20] <mattbrejza> most of the time you dont care if your adapter has a small loss anyway
[11:20] <mattbrejza> just make sure that loss is flat over what you care about
[11:20] <mattbrejza> im fairly sur ethe SA's absolute power accuracy will be less than the loss of the extra connector
[11:21] <mattbrejza> and if you really care you can cal with a power meter
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[11:37] <gonzo__> have done similar with a precision atten on the input. Save the connectors and risk of bernung out the input cctry
[11:37] <gonzo__> burning
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[11:44] <nats`> gonzo__ I often use 20dB attenuator dc -> 6GHz when doing conducted tests :)
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[11:53] <astrobiologist> any news on B11 and B12? Still nothing since yesterday on the map
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[11:59] <DL1SGP> no news dear astrobiologist
[11:59] <fsphil> it's likely still flying fine
[12:00] <DL1SGP> yes :)
[12:00] <DL1SGP> just no groundstations there to listen for them
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[12:04] <YO3KSR> maybe they will come back to europe where we have stations :)
[12:04] <astrobiologist> well good luck to them, if they finally die it will be a bit like that bit in Flash Gordon when Zarkoff accidentally knocks him out with the golden egg thing. The sudden loss of hope....
[12:04] <DL1SGP> hopefully :)
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[12:07] <chrisstubbsw> Nice work on spacenear.us DanielRichman!
[12:09] Nick change: domlin -> domlin_
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[12:10] <mfa298> oh wow, that's quite an improvement
[12:12] <fsphil> yea he's really good at php
[12:13] <mfa298> whats changed (I was assuming it would be in the JS as it looked like the delay was client side)
[12:14] <fsphil> bits on both sides I think
[12:15] <adamgreig> mfa298: basically all that changed is the old javascript had an n² operation
[12:15] <adamgreig> for every point in the list, it operated on every point on the list
[12:15] <adamgreig> now, it operates for every point on the list once
[12:15] <nats`> hey there are no more different level on HAM certificate in Europe...
[12:15] <adamgreig> I don't think there's any change to the php even
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[12:15] <nats`> if I understand correctly now you just have the two series of questions and you get the same level as the former higher class
[12:15] <adamgreig> just something like five lines of javascript changed
[12:15] <adamgreig> amazing ;o
[12:15] <mfa298> Ouch, no wonder it was slow
[12:16] <adamgreig> weirdly the chrome profiler didn't catch it as being a slow part
[12:16] <sv1iw> DL1SGP B-11 last heard from Rhodes last night at 20.14 z exactly...by SV5DKL.
[12:17] <adamgreig> spacenearus is filled with these kind of exciting things
[12:17] <fsphil> ah, the js was in a php page
[12:17] <mfa298> my JS foo is pretty non existant so i didn't bother looking at that, but based on the packet captures and speed of transfer I suspected it was a JS issue
[12:17] <adamgreig> of course fsphil ;)
[12:19] <eroomde> any more radar progress adamgreig ?
[12:19] <LeoBodnar_> sv1iw: just aurally, no copy?
[12:20] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ yes just aurally, he was not prepared for proper copy but received my mail and went to listen...
[12:21] <LeoBodnar_> still very good news. What was the signal strength?
[12:21] <adamgreig> eroomde: not since we last chatted. i spent yesterday in bed ill, so
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[12:22] <adamgreig> I think to make any progress I either need the scheduling/metadata support in bladerf, or I need to build a little attenuated crossover so I can see the tx pulse clearly first
[12:22] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ it should be since he was listening with a 2 meter beam. He plans to be properly set this evening
[12:22] <adamgreig> and even then I'm not convinced I can do very much better than several metres resolution, but I've still not cracked this improve-time-resolution thing
[12:22] <adamgreig> so I've got say 200 samples from the radio
[12:22] <adamgreig> and I know the tx pulse was in there somewhere and repeats every 200 samples
[12:23] <adamgreig> hopefully with some jitter
[12:23] <adamgreig> but I can't align it to other sets of samples
[12:23] <adamgreig> if I average all of them as a vector average, I don't improve my time resolution at all
[12:23] <adamgreig> so maybe I can upsample all of them to 50 times the time resolution and then try to line them up
[12:23] <adamgreig> but I'm not convinced that would work and even if it did I don't currently have anything good to line them up with
[12:23] <adamgreig> I think slightly better antennas would help too, but I'm not sure. the current ones definitely work to some extent
[12:23] <LeoBodnar_> thanks sv1iw we might need him to be there in 4-5 days. :)
[12:24] <Darkside> i cavuelt remember something about subsample correlation
[12:24] <LeoBodnar_> With a good setup
[12:24] <Darkside> vaguely*
[12:24] <Darkside> which is baslcally just upsampling then crosscorrelating
[12:24] <adamgreig> oh hm
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[12:24] <adamgreig> yes you could totally cross correlate to find the correct alignment
[12:24] <domlin_> hello other me
[12:24] <Darkside> yeah
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[12:24] <adamgreig> though with like 150 things to all align that might be fun
[12:25] <adamgreig> but still not a huge problem
[12:25] <Darkside> isn't that the normal way anyway?
[12:25] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ I have told him so, will keep you posted
[12:25] <adamgreig> well yea that is the way
[12:25] <adamgreig> I just hadn't actually thought it through far enough to think 'cross correlate'
[12:25] <Darkside> :P
[12:25] <Darkside> i'd be interested to see how wide your correlation peak is
[12:25] <Darkside> want to put some transmit and receive data online somewhere?
[12:27] <Darkside> i really need to learn how to do range-doppler plots at some point
[12:28] <LeoBodnar_> Is cosine shaping used in BPSK used to reduce BW only or does it serve other purposes?
[12:28] <adamgreig> cosine pulsing is pretty much just to reduce bandwidth. in bpsk tho?
[12:28] <adamgreig> Darkside: sure
[12:28] <adamgreig> but I think the data I have is all crap
[12:28] <adamgreig> do you want samples from the pulse or the prn version?
[12:28] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: reduce bandwidth only
[12:28] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: however
[12:28] <adamgreig> the pulse version just turns TX on for one sample
[12:28] <adamgreig> every 256
[12:29] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: some demodulators may use the shaping to sync
[12:29] <adamgreig> the PRN one transmits a 1023 bit PRN at 20MHz constantly
[12:29] <LeoBodnar_> So if I hard key phase transitions the RX quality would not degrade just the waterfall would look a bit smudged?
[12:29] <Darkside> adamgreig: i probably wont have time to look at it ages ago
[12:29] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: hahahahaha smudged
[12:29] <Darkside> hahhahahha
[12:29] <Darkside> it'll put out a shitlaod of sidebands
[12:29] <Darkside> it just means you get a bit less power going into the main signal
[12:30] <eroomde> i think i missed the joke
[12:30] <adamgreig> though if you're doing high rate bpsk with a spreading code
[12:30] <Darkside> it'll still decode
[12:30] <adamgreig> it's not going to make much odds if you put out sidebands
[12:30] <Darkside> it wont matter on 70cm
[12:30] <adamgreig> your tx will probably have an output filter anyway
[12:30] <LeoBodnar_> me too, does it have special meaning down under?
[12:30] <PE2G> And B-12. According to this hysplit: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/B-12-prediction-24h.png
[12:30] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:30] <PE2G> it should be somewhere near or over the eastern part of the Black Sea by now (~12 UTC)
[12:30] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: i've been playing with this as part of my research work
[12:30] <Laurenceb> its only a interference issue
[12:30] <Darkside> i was experimenting with phase shaping
[12:31] <Darkside> it kind of work
[12:31] <Darkside> works
[12:31] <Darkside> but not very well
[12:31] <Darkside> anyway, if you're going to use hard keyed BPSK, make sure you dont put it anywhere other peopel are using BPSK
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[12:31] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:31] <Darkside> else you'll get yelled at
[12:31] <Darkside> on 70cm it'd be fine
[12:31] <Laurenceb> phase shaping might work with stm32f4 pll haxor
[12:31] <Darkside> i did it using a DDS
[12:31] <Darkside> i could update the phase register at 200KHz
[12:31] <Laurenceb> the VCO will go up to 492MHz on F4...
[12:32] <LeoBodnar_> I am thinking ISM for HAB, not HF
[12:32] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: yep oit'll work fine then
[12:32] <Laurenceb> annoyingly the output pin drive wont be that fast
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[12:32] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: no problems at all. it'll work fine
[12:32] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: planning on implementing BPSK31?
[12:32] <Laurenceb> will you actually get any range with tens on mw on 22m band?
[12:33] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: i wouldnt use hard-keyed BPSK on HF
[12:33] <Darkside> your bandwidth will spray out massively
[12:33] <Darkside> when i did it it was out >3KHz
[12:33] <LeoBodnar_> No idea, how does link budget scale with freq?
[12:33] <LeoBodnar_> The whole point of BPSK is keeping it tight (100Hz or so) on HF
[12:33] <Laurenceb> it gets better as you go down in frequency
[12:34] <Darkside> https://github.com/darksidelemm/qitx/blob/master/QITX_Remote/PSK.ino
[12:34] <Laurenceb> so line of sight will work fine
[12:34] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: yep, th eonly way BPSK is tight on HF is because of the pulse shaping.
[12:34] <Laurenceb> im just wondering about ionospheric signal strength
[12:34] <Laurenceb> i.e. over the horizon
[12:34] <Darkside> yeah it wont get over the noise
[12:34] <LeoBodnar_> sure
[12:34] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ Ism band can be crowded on big cities, lots of plcs with telemetry also...
[12:34] <Darkside> your problem is noise at the receiver on HF
[12:34] <Darkside> its going to be WAY WAY higher than on 70cm
[12:34] <Laurenceb> most poeple use 1W or so
[12:35] <Darkside> and your 10mw signal will *not* get over it
[12:35] <Laurenceb> yeah the noise floor is way higher
[12:35] <ike> guys how do you disable GPS to save 30mA. Are there $PMTK commnad for that? this is module that I have http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/GlobalTop-FGPMMOPA6C-Datasheet-V0A-Preliminary.pdf and it don't have enable external pin, only Vcc pin but I don't wana toggle 60mA
[12:35] <Darkside> Laurenceb: lol
[12:35] <Darkside> Laurenceb: you havent played BPSK31 on HF, hav you
[12:35] <Laurenceb> nope
[12:35] <Darkside> Laurenceb: most people use 30W
[12:35] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:35] <Darkside> or more
[12:35] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: Is it looking like it just came up to russia now?
[12:35] <Laurenceb> what kind of range do you get?
[12:35] <Darkside> Laurenceb: i've worked the world
[12:35] <Laurenceb> hmm, so multiple bounce
[12:36] <LeoBodnar_> Yes SpeedEvil no receivers there
[12:36] <Darkside> europe, asiatic russia, US
[12:36] <Darkside> of course
[12:36] <Laurenceb> if you want over the horizon maybe less?
[12:36] <Laurenceb> like 1000Km ?
[12:36] <Darkside> same problem
[12:36] <Darkside> ground reflection loss is the killer
[12:36] <Laurenceb> so
[12:36] <Laurenceb> if its only ionospheric reflection?
[12:36] <Darkside> single hop isnt so bad, but ionospheric absorbtion loss can be bad, depending on the path
[12:36] <Laurenceb> ie single hop off balloon yeah
[12:36] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:37] <Darkside> also, making an antenna that radiates *up* is hard on a balloon
[12:37] <Laurenceb> do you think ~30mw would work?
[12:37] <Darkside> no.
[12:37] <Darkside> i think you;d have troubles with 30mW even with line of sight
[12:37] <Laurenceb> :-/
[12:37] <Darkside> unless you have a receive site in a very low noise area
[12:37] <Darkside> i.e. out in the country away from any noise sources
[12:37] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:38] <Laurenceb> thats prob doable
[12:38] <Darkside> Laurenceb: in cities, you're looking at -80dBm noise in a 3KHZ bandwidth
[12:38] <Laurenceb> but i think the idea was for single bounce
[12:38] <Darkside> convert that to dBm/Hz as you please
[12:38] <Darkside> so i've flown 40m before
[12:38] <Darkside> 40mW TX power
[12:38] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:38] <Laurenceb> any good?
[12:38] <Darkside> we didn't gt any reports from the eastern states, which shoudl have been single hop
[12:38] <Darkside> only line of sight
[12:38] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:38] <Laurenceb> what was it transmitting?
[12:38] <Laurenceb> baud rate
[12:39] <LeoBodnar_> I want to do HF anyway. With domino
[12:39] <Darkside> 50 baud RTTY
[12:39] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: do THOR
[12:39] <Laurenceb> yeah domino will outperform that
[12:39] <Darkside> i think th FEC would help
[12:39] <Laurenceb> WISPR
[12:39] <Laurenceb> *-I
[12:39] <Darkside> WSPR is a different kettle of fish
[12:39] <LeoBodnar_> DominoEx 4
[12:39] <Darkside> or someone could be real nice and write an olivia implementation
[12:39] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:39] <Darkside> and we could run Olivia 32/1000
[12:39] <Darkside> because that mode rocks
[12:40] <LeoBodnar_> I flew one but it did not transmit anything due to my own stupidity :-/
[12:40] <Darkside> i mean, i've had contacts where the signal was -10dB down
[12:40] <Darkside> my first DX data mode contact was with a south korean station on olivia 32/1000
[12:40] <LeoBodnar_> I don't think we have to worry about freq drift anymore so DominoEX is not that appealing
[12:40] <Laurenceb> WSPR ftw :P
[12:40] <Darkside> and i couldnt even see it on teh waterfall
[12:40] <LeoBodnar_> I have chosen it initially because it is drift-resistant
[12:40] <Laurenceb> MFSK-64 maybe
[12:40] <Laurenceb> well - a low speed mode
[12:41] <Laurenceb> actually WSPR is hard to generate
[12:41] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ The VOA runs digital mode tests every weekend. So far the winer is MFSK in all variants, 16,32,64,128 just my 2 cents...
[12:41] <Laurenceb> need a very low phase noise PLL
[12:41] <LeoBodnar_> Can the habitat be updated to autoconfigure it in dl-gldigi?
[12:42] <LeoBodnar_> I use DominoEX sv1iw which is MFSK mode
[12:42] <Darkside> Laurenceb: olivia has better FEC than MFSK16/32/64
[12:42] <Darkside> way btter
[12:42] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:42] <Darkside> better*
[12:42] <Darkside> i've been running tests on these modes through my HF channel simulator
[12:42] <Darkside> olivia wins out in ALL cases
[12:43] <adamgreig> except all the sv1iw cases apparently, Darkside
[12:43] <Darkside> in terms of reliability, olivia wins hands down
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[12:43] <adamgreig> so much for your simulator
[12:43] <LeoBodnar_> Can habitat be updated to allow autoconfiguration for Olivia?
[12:43] <Darkside> adamgreig: :P
[12:43] <Darkside> do VOA use olivia?
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[12:43] <Darkside> olivia is kind of crap for high speed data stuff, as it has so much latency
[12:43] <Darkside> and takes ages to sync
[12:44] <Darkside> but if you can handle the latency, its good
[12:44] <Darkside> MFSK has way less latency,and more throughput
[12:44] <Darkside> iirc
[12:44] <LeoBodnar_> I'll look into it. What is the tone shift interval value?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK
[12:44] <Laurenceb> " the lower, modulation and forward error correcting (FEC) code layer is a classical multiple frequency-shift keying (MFSK) while the higher layer is a forward error correcting code based on Walsh functions."
[12:44] <sv1iw> Darkside not sure, but they have tested a lot of modes. MFSK seems their favorite and I can receive here practically 99% error free.
[12:44] <Laurenceb> so its like MFSK ++ ?
[12:45] <Darkside> yeah
[12:45] <Laurenceb> oh neat
[12:45] <Laurenceb> yeah i already implimented MFSK on avr
[12:45] <Darkside> yeah VOA arent doing Olivia http://voaradiogram.net/
[12:45] <Laurenceb> ages ago...
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[12:45] <Darkside> Laurenceb: hold on, i hhave an example file for you
[12:45] <Darkside> Laurenceb: rfhead.net/geocaching/beneath_the_noise.wav
[12:45] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:45] <Darkside> Olivia 32/1000, signal is centered on 1KHz
[12:45] <Darkside> you can play thar file straight in fldigi
[12:46] <Darkside> theres also a MT63-1000L signal at 2KHz, and BPSK scattered throughout
[12:46] <Darkside> and i think i put an Olivia 8/500 signal up at about 2750Hz
[12:47] <Darkside> this is for a puzzle geocache
[12:47] <Darkside> don't tell any australians
[12:47] <Darkside> :P
[12:47] <fsphil> oh dear. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24031979
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[12:48] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: anyway, if you coudl write the Olivia implementation in C it woudl be greatly appreciated :P
[12:48] <Darkside> and woudl make it usable by many other people :P
[12:48] <fsphil> would olivia offer much over thor?
[12:49] <Darkside> yes
[12:49] <Darkside> better FEC
[12:49] <fsphil> are they not the same?
[12:49] <Darkside> but im not sure it it can be implemented on a small micro
[12:49] <Darkside> not sure
[12:49] <Darkside> i thought olivias was better
[12:49] <mattbrejza> what fec?
[12:49] <gonzo__> the straight msfk is good for simple modulators though
[12:49] <Darkside> yeah
[12:50] <Darkside> the olivia spec wants pulse shaping
[12:50] <Darkside> and im not sure the fldigi demodulator can work without it
[12:50] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: you may want to check that before you go too far
[12:50] <Darkside> if the fldigi demodulator uses the pulse shaping for sync, then it might not work
[12:50] <Darkside> THOR has the benefit of being constant amplitude, so it doesnt need any pulse shaping, and doesnt need a linear amplifier
[12:51] <Darkside> howevr, if olivia can be decoded without the pulse shaping, then it could be really useful
[12:51] <mattbrejza> so olivia is a mfsk scheme that doesnt have constant amplitude?
[12:51] <Darkside> it uses pulse shaping to reduce bandwidth
[12:51] <Darkside> or maybe i'm wrong
[12:52] <Darkside> hm
[12:52] <fsphil> it changes between two tones smoothly
[12:52] <gonzo__> pulse shaping of the outgoing tx power, or of the transision in the modulator?
[12:52] <mattbrejza> so you pulse shape before you modulate|
[12:52] <fsphil> the overall output power is the same
[12:52] <fsphil> or something like that
[12:52] <Darkside> wait, maybe it doesnt have it
[12:52] <gonzo__> rr
[12:52] <Darkside> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK
[12:52] <fsphil> I don't see which FEC it uses
[12:52] <Darkside> im getting confused
[12:52] <Darkside> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK#The_MFSK_layer
[12:52] <Darkside> by that bit
[12:53] <LeoBodnar_> Darkside: I am not good at C
[12:53] <eroomde> Laurenceb, have you used the mini 10-pin cortexy jtag headers before?
[12:53] <eroomde> if so have you found a uk supplier for them?
[12:53] <eroomde> part number (99% sure) Samtec FTSH-105-01-L-DV
[12:53] <LeoBodnar_> (this doesn't mean I am good at anything else)
[12:53] <adamgreig> eroomde: yes
[12:54] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: its just an implementation in PIC assembly is a bit limited
[12:54] <Darkside> right, so i did a short recording of olivia 32/1000 in fldigi
[12:54] <eroomde> thanks adamb
[12:54] <Darkside> and it sure as hell isnt constant amplitude
[12:54] <Laurenceb> eroomde: yes, in bandbury
[12:54] <Laurenceb> arg
[12:54] <Laurenceb> *-d
[12:54] <eroomde> where?
[12:54] <eroomde> farnell is US stock £15/order
[12:54] <Laurenceb> http://www.toby.co.uk/
[12:54] <fsphil> "Walsh functions FEC layer"
[12:54] <eroomde> digikey is digikey
[12:54] <eroomde> oh toby
[12:54] <eroomde> forgot about them
[12:55] <Laurenceb> they are very handy
[12:55] <eroomde> adamgreig, happy to hear from you though if you know someone else
[12:55] <Darkside> still, im not seeing much pulse shaping, so maybe fldigi will demodulate it if its constant amplitude
[12:55] <eroomde> er wait
[12:55] <eroomde> FTSH-105-01-L-DV-K
[12:55] <eroomde> not FTSH-105-01-L-DV
[12:55] <adamgreig> http://onecall.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1865279
[12:55] <eroomde> the -K is with the polarised key slot
[12:55] <adamgreig> iirc
[12:55] <eroomde> which is the bit i want
[12:55] <fsphil> I suspect the FEC on thor might be a bit better
[12:55] <adamgreig> ah
[12:55] <adamgreig> so that doesn't have the key slot
[12:55] <Laurenceb> wait you want the headers?
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[12:55] <eroomde> yes i do
[12:56] <eroomde> key slot/header
[12:56] <Laurenceb> cant you just pull a bin out??
[12:56] <Laurenceb> *pin
[12:56] <Darkside> fsphil: interesting
[12:56] <eroomde> er...
[12:56] <eroomde> no?
[12:56] <eroomde> why not just do it right
[12:56] <Darkside> i might try adding noise to it and seeing how it goes
[12:56] <adamgreig> yea so I just used the ones without polarisation
[12:56] <fsphil> yea. worth testing this
[12:56] <Laurenceb> cuz 1 second with long nosed pliers
[12:56] <adamgreig> but not sure farnell sell anything with pol
[12:56] <eroomde> will try toby anyway
[12:56] <Laurenceb> seriously wut
[12:56] <LeoBodnar_> Can habitat be updated to allow autoconfiguration for *?
[12:57] <Laurenceb> pull the pin out
[12:57] <Darkside> thor runs at a slower baud rate than olivia though
[12:57] <Darkside> so its not going to be a fair test
[12:57] Action: Laurenceb bbl
[12:57] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar_: yes
[12:57] <LeoBodnar_> cool
[12:57] <eroomde> Laurenceb, i'm not sure how that helps with anything
[12:57] <LeoBodnar_> without modifying current dl-fldigi client? adamgreig
[12:58] <Darkside> fsphil: right, recording a test
[12:58] <Darkside> will overlay with HF band noise and see how low i can take the THOR signal down
[12:59] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar_: no
[12:59] <Darkside> actually i guss i should use white noise, for UHF sim
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[13:00] <Darkside> hah ok thats pretty damn good
[13:00] <fsphil> yea
[13:00] <Darkside> as good as olivia
[13:00] <Darkside> its down to -12 db and still decoding
[13:00] <Darkside> ok getting some errors in
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[13:01] <Darkside> but its mostly there
[13:01] <Darkside> so yeah, THOR would be worth a shot
[13:01] <Darkside> and it'll work on my class- HF transmitter
[13:01] <Darkside> Class-E*
[13:01] <fsphil> it seems to use different FEC settings for different speeds
[13:01] <Darkside> mm ok , im using THOR11
[13:02] <Darkside> ill try THOR4
[13:02] <Darkside> good lord this is slow
[13:02] <Darkside> 3.9 baud
[13:02] <fsphil> sheesh
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[13:03] <Darkside> The FEC system uses binary convolution to generate two dibits per varicode bit, and halves the corrected data rate compared to the equivalent DominoEX mode. Rate R=1/2, Constraint length K=7, Interleaver L=10 (40 bits).
[13:03] <AndroUser> Good afternoon
[13:03] <Darkside> lol it took over a minute to send :
[13:03] <Darkside> The FEC system uses binary convolution to generate two dibits per varicode bit, and halves the corrected data rate compared to the equivalent DominoEX mode. Rate R=1/2, Constraint length K=7, Interleaver L=10 (40 bits).
[13:03] <Darkside> argh
[13:04] <Darkside> took over a minute to send my regular CQ
[13:04] Nick change: AndroUser -> dl7ad
[13:04] <LeoBodnar_> If it needs a new client this pretty much non-starter. Try to convince all the listeners to update the software...
[13:04] <fsphil> fldigi has THOR support
[13:04] <Darkside> yeah
[13:04] <fsphil> it should just work
[13:04] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar_: haha I know right. we've been there
[13:04] <dl7ad> Any new information from b balloons?
[13:04] <Darkside> and as logn as habitat asks it to switch to a modem by name, it shoudl be fine
[13:04] <Darkside> adamgreig: how does it tell fldigi what modem to use
[13:05] <adamgreig> it's not "by name"
[13:05] <adamgreig> this is a c++ app
[13:05] <Darkside> id?
[13:05] <adamgreig> doesn't quite work as easily as that
[13:05] <adamgreig> god knows
[13:05] <adamgreig> no
[13:05] <Darkside> mm
[13:05] <adamgreig> it calls the right functions
[13:05] <Darkside> but can otu get it working with a arbitrary mode
[13:05] <LeoBodnar_> adamgreig said it can't be autoconfigured to other modes apart from current RTTY/Hell/DomEX
[13:05] <adamgreig> but also has to configure baud rates and wahtever else
[13:05] <Darkside> dammit
[13:05] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar_: the only good news is that dl-fldigi does have a version check built in
[13:05] <adamgreig> so if/when a new version is released, it will pop up saying so
[13:05] <Darkside> adamgreig: the xmlrpc interface allows you to set a mode by name or ID
[13:05] <adamgreig> that's nice Darkside
[13:06] <Darkside> i know, you're working in C++ land
[13:06] <fsphil> so how does it do it
[13:06] <Darkside> but doesnt that mean it has somethign internal that parses that?
[13:07] <fsphil> what's the command to set the mode?
[13:07] <Darkside> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.22/xmlrpc-control.html
[13:07] <Darkside> i used it for a bunch of python automation stuff for HF propagation monitoring
[13:07] <fsphil> set_by_name
[13:07] <Darkside> and you set the name that shows up in th ebottom left corner of fldigi
[13:08] <Darkside> so i could do modem.set_by_name("THOR4")
[13:08] <fsphil> mode_info[]
[13:08] <fsphil> is an array of modes
[13:08] <adamgreig> https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/blob/master/src/dl_fldigi/flights.cxx#L358-L363
[13:08] <adamgreig> there ^^
[13:09] <adamgreig> and correspondingly see the autoconfig_rtty, _* functions in that same file
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[13:09] <adamgreig> which eventually call things like init_modem_sync(MODE_RTTY) and other bits
[13:09] <adamgreig> basically it needs custom code for each supported mode
[13:09] <adamgreig> and currently only supports the 3 anyone has ever used
[13:10] <adamgreig> but it's not hard to add more support (feel free)
[13:10] <adamgreig> and we do have a working update system which people will probably use
[13:10] <Darkside> i'm wondering if its possible to just add support to ggive it a mode by name..
[13:10] <adamgreig> update notification system*
[13:10] <Darkside> like you can do via xmlrpc
[13:10] <adamgreig> Darkside: probably not
[13:10] <adamgreig> given as you have to configure other things too
[13:10] <Darkside> well
[13:10] <adamgreig> but then again, if the mode doesn't take any additional config
[13:10] <Darkside> exactly
[13:10] <adamgreig> it would be easy to just add it as a supported type
[13:10] <Darkside> most of these modems dont take any config
[13:10] <Darkside> even domex just shows up as different mdos
[13:10] <fsphil> https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/blob/master/src/globals/globals.cxx#L45
[13:10] <adamgreig> anyway I'm not sure there's any easy way to do it by a name string
[13:11] <fsphil> search this array ^^
[13:11] <adamgreig> and pointless to some extent
[13:11] <fsphil> that's how xmlrpc does it
[13:11] <adamgreig> mm
[13:11] <Darkside> tadaaaaah
[13:11] <adamgreig> but I mean
[13:11] <adamgreig> that's not really tadaah Darkside
[13:11] <Darkside> well
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[13:11] <Darkside> closer anyway
[13:11] <adamgreig> anyway we can just add a few more branches to the if-else in autoconf
[13:11] <adamgreig> doing it by arbitary string is kind of pointless
[13:11] <fsphil> have this as a fallback
[13:11] <adamgreig> dl-fldigi won't be getting any _new_ modes
[13:11] <Darkside> yes, why not have this as fallback
[13:12] <adamgreig> and we don't want to set to a mode that _does_ require config
[13:12] <adamgreig> because when do we ever fall back?
[13:12] <fsphil> when someone wants to use thor ;)
[13:12] <adamgreig> if fldigi itself gets a new data mode we don't support yet
[13:12] <adamgreig> then we'll have to issue an update anyway
[13:12] <adamgreig> otherwise we already know exactly what modes it supports
[13:12] <Darkside> yes, im talking about being able to use any modes in th existing set of modes fldigi supports
[13:12] <adamgreig> and which require additional configuration
[13:12] <Darkside> without pushing an update
[13:12] <adamgreig> well we're going to have to push an update
[13:12] <Darkside> yes
[13:12] <adamgreig> to support anything that's not rtty or hell or domex
[13:12] <Darkside> the majority of these mods dont ned additional config
[13:12] <adamgreig> so just include all the ones that don't need additional config in that
[13:13] <adamgreig> in the same way that we already support three existing ones
[13:13] <Darkside> so that basically ALL The other modes there
[13:13] <Darkside> all the MFSK modes, all the PSK modes
[13:13] <Darkside> etc
[13:13] <adamgreig> would be a lot less effort than writing some string search thing to try and set any mode by string name
[13:13] <Darkside> they all don't need config
[13:13] <adamgreig> hmm
[13:13] <adamgreig> ugh
[13:13] <Darkside> this is why im saying set it by name
[13:13] <adamgreig> well basically they don't need config because the stupid config is the name
[13:13] <Darkside> yes
[13:13] <Darkside> DOMEX4
[13:13] <Darkside> DOMEX11
[13:13] <Darkside> its in the name
[13:13] <adamgreig> not sure I'm a huge fan of that design :P
[13:13] <adamgreig> hams, what can you do
[13:13] <adamgreig> but anyway
[13:14] <fsphil> hah
[13:14] <adamgreig> at the least you probably want a list of modes that don't require config
[13:14] <Darkside> still, if it means you can use any mode out of fldigi's arsenal without having to add a zillion functions
[13:14] <adamgreig> so you can't set modes that do
[13:14] <adamgreig> mm
[13:14] <adamgreig> well as I said before
[13:14] <adamgreig> feel free
[13:14] <adamgreig> >_>
[13:14] <Darkside> adamgreig: thats basically everything apart from RTTY
[13:14] <adamgreig> right. the only mode on the list not made up by hams?
[13:14] <Darkside> RTTY is th eonly one that ned specific config changes
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[13:15] <Darkside> well RTTY was originally baudor
[13:15] <Darkside> baudot*
[13:15] <adamgreig> :P
[13:15] <Darkside> then people decided to add ASCII support
[13:15] <Darkside> when ASCII was invented
[13:15] <adamgreig> baudot wasn't made by hams either was it?
[13:15] <Darkside> nope
[13:15] <Darkside> but anyway
[13:15] <Darkside> fldigi supports stuff
[13:15] <adamgreig> yea
[13:15] <Darkside> why not allow the use of it
[13:15] <adamgreig> well fair enough, I hadn't realised there were not "modes with config" so much as "a billion arbitrary modes"
[13:16] <adamgreig> I was kind of hoping internally it was like "the olivia modem, with config settings for number of tones"
[13:16] <Darkside> you obviouslt havent used fldigi for anything other than HAB :P
[13:16] <adamgreig> but nope!
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[13:16] <adamgreig> it's instead ten different olivia modes
[13:16] <adamgreig> wonderful
[13:16] <Darkside> actually not so much the case
[13:16] <adamgreig> having said that - it looks like it is actually one olivia modem
[13:16] <Darkside> you can set arbitrary olivia modes
[13:16] <adamgreig> and you _can_ configure tones etc
[13:16] <Darkside> yep
[13:16] <adamgreig> which implies we should just allow people to say 'olivia'
[13:16] <Darkside> but there are standard modes used
[13:16] <adamgreig> and set the details
[13:16] <Darkside> various modes for various bandplans
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[13:17] <Darkside> because theres a heap of configurability with olivia, its nice to be abl to go "oh, that signal is 1KHz, wide, its probably olivia 32/1000"
[13:17] <Darkside> not "oh that signal is 1KHz wide, i wonder if its olivia 16/1000 or 32/1000 or 64/1000 or 128/1000"
[13:17] <Darkside> (yes you can kind of see the difference in the waterfall, but still)
[13:18] <adamgreig> mm, I was saying something about hams designing digimodes
[13:18] <adamgreig> anyway, well, ok
[13:18] <adamgreig> being able to set any mode on that list might be nice
[13:18] <adamgreig> or at least the subset of modes that don't require additional config
[13:18] <Darkside> also means if somon ewants to be silly and fly a rpi and a SSB transmitter
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[13:18] <Darkside> then they can do something silly like run 16xPSK125R
[13:18] Nick change: AndroUser -> dl7ad
[13:19] <DL1SGP> welcome back Sven
[13:19] <Darkside> or adamgreig , what if dl-fldigi was used for something other than balloons :-)
[13:19] <Darkside> maybe a HF beacon on a sailboat circumnavigating th world
[13:19] <Darkside> :P
[13:20] <adamgreig> maybe they could use real modes >.>
[13:20] <Darkside> fsphil: THOR4 doesnt go many dB lower than THOR11
[13:20] <Darkside> so i'd say just use THOR11
[13:20] <dl7ad> DL1SGP any new info from balloons?
[13:20] <adamgreig> but okay, that's not fundamentally different, HABs might use olivia or something
[13:20] <DL1SGP> no dl7ad
[13:20] <dl7ad> Hm ok
[13:21] <enkidu> SV9RHE could be able to receive B-11
[13:21] <dl7ad> Im currently at IFA
[13:21] <DL1SGP> heh
[13:21] <DL1SGP> have a nice time at IFA
[13:22] <dl7ad> Enkidu i think the balloon moved too south now
[13:23] <enkidu> 123test then
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[13:23] <dl7ad> I think 123test is a test
[13:23] <dl7ad> Noy a real rx
[13:23] <dl7ad> *not
[13:24] <enkidu> ah ;/ nice then
[13:24] <mattbrejza> related: http://what-if.xkcd.com/
[13:24] <dl7ad> 123test received signals via sdr in Bucharest
[13:25] <craag> Does anyone know offhand the spec of DAC needed for dominoex?
[13:25] <mattbrejza> you can always use a shitty one + potential divider
[13:26] <craag> True
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[13:28] <DL1SGP> if B-12 makes it to Hong-Kong there is a Globaltuners receiver available there :)
[13:29] <mfa298> I think I worked out you need to be able to change in steps of 0.0024V if connected direct to the ntx2 for dominoex16.
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[13:30] <mfa298> you might need different levels of control for the other domino speeds
[13:31] <craag> All are 18 tones
[13:31] <craag> iirc
[13:31] <craag> Just different spacing/baudrate
[13:32] <craag> DominoEX 22 looks doable
[13:32] <craag> Just need that NTX2B pls!
[13:32] <sv1iw> dl7ad Good day sven, I have confirmed last aural report was last night 20.14 from SV5
[13:32] <mfa298> you'd need to get different voltages out for the different spacing
[13:33] <craag> mfa298: THanks, looks like this one will do .8mV steps at 3.3V range
[13:33] <LeoBodnar_> sv1iw: was that UTC or local?
[13:33] <LeoBodnar_> Ah, you said Z so UTC
[13:34] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ 2014z
[13:34] <LeoBodnar_> thanks
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[13:35] <craag> mfa298: Assuming linear relationship, 3.3mV for EX 22.
[13:35] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar_ No problem unfortunately my plea for receivers in 5B and OD hasn't produced any yet...
[13:35] <craag> mfa298: I'm thinking DominoEX 22 beacon, and RTTY 600 SSDV for this batc launch.
[13:36] <mfa298> my calculations were based off the 2Khz/V from the wiki.
[13:36] <craag> Aiming high!
[13:36] <mfa298> you shouldn't need the whole 3.3V range so if you can reduce that you might have a bit more control.
[13:37] <mfa298> I've never really played with DACs like that.
[13:38] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: have you got a pic of the B11 payload PCB?
[13:38] <Darkside> not covered in heatshring :P
[13:38] <mfa298> I need to investigate the hardware pwm on the pi and see if that can be utilised
[13:39] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: nvm, foudn i on your site :P
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: http://pythonhosted.org/RPIO/pwm_py.html
[13:41] <LeoBodnar_> I have just found that 0R2 resistor does not work very well if used as a decoupling capacitor on the Vdd bus
[13:41] <Darkside> haha
[13:41] <Darkside> no
[13:41] <Darkside> it won't work very well
[13:41] <craag> mfa298: Yeah I think I'll just stack this KL25z board, get that to do the GPS + dominoex. 600 baud RTTY can be done straight from the Pi UART right?
[13:41] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: how are you charging the lipo on your boards, and how are you stepping that down to whatever the board runs at?
[13:41] <LeoBodnar_> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/Images/2.jpg Darkside
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: :)
[13:41] <fsphil> craag: yes
[13:42] <craag> Could still couple the GPS uart with a diode or something to the pi uart, so it can listen to GPS too.
[13:42] <craag> fsphil: Thanks
[13:42] <LeoBodnar_> I have ground off all the IC part numbers in case it lands in China
[13:42] <mfa298> SpeedEvil: that's one of the many links I've got open to read through - although I'm doing this in C++
[13:42] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: is that board 2-layer?
[13:42] <fsphil> or use the i2c interface on the ublox
[13:42] <Darkside> or 4
[13:42] <LeoBodnar_> 2
[13:42] <Darkside> jeez
[13:42] <Darkside> thats got to hav some compromises
[13:42] <craag> fsphil: True...
[13:43] <craag> Need to do some experimentation..
[13:43] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: what panls did you use?
[13:43] <LeoBodnar_> Whats pp of grind?
[13:43] <mfa298> craag: from the Pi UART is what everyone else has done
[13:43] <Darkside> and where did you source them?
[13:43] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: (in case you haven't realised, i'd liek to do a solar powered flight in australia)
[13:43] <fsphil> the audio out can be hacked to do rtty
[13:43] <Darkside> and try and fly to new zealand
[13:43] <fsphil> leaving the uart free
[13:43] <fsphil> but this may not be reliable
[13:44] <LeoBodnar_> eBay Darkside
[13:44] <Darkside> LeoBodnar_: heh ok
[13:44] <Darkside> specs of them?
[13:44] <LeoBodnar_> Chinese
[13:44] <LeoBodnar_> lol
[13:45] <Darkside> hah ok
[13:45] <LeoBodnar_> They sell them by the dimensions
[13:45] <Darkside> right, so is that a max-7?
[13:45] <LeoBodnar_> MAX-6G
[13:45] <Darkside> ahh k
[13:45] <Darkside> ok, next.. did you just wire the panels striahg to the lipo?
[13:45] <Darkside> or is there some nicer charging circuit there
[13:45] <LeoBodnar_> Hold on I need to rework nice SMT decoupling shorts
[13:46] <LeoBodnar_> I am at work atm
[13:46] <Darkside> ahhk
[13:46] <enkidu> Darkside: solars had too low voltage for direct charging
[13:49] <ike> enkidu what if you have 20 solar panels?
[13:50] <enkidu> for li-ion, li-po and li-fe id never risk direct charging
[13:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Darkside, I think Leo used an ST MPPT chip to charge the batteries. The another convertor down to the supply to the chips.
[13:51] <Laurenceb> https://plus.google.com/photos/101126269564358156827/albums/5921989886089716177/5921989889529954130?authkey=CL6-idGs_MbAfQ&pid=5921989889529954130&oid=101126269564358156827
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[14:02] <enkidu> Laurenceb: wth is this?
[14:02] <Laurenceb> charge pad
[14:03] <enkidu> atmega for charge pad?
[14:03] <Laurenceb> yup
[14:03] <enkidu> its time to put athlon64 on telemetry balloon
[14:03] <Laurenceb> and two axis control
[14:03] <Laurenceb> lolz
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[14:08] <enkidu> btw - there are radio modules for remote read of power meters, that are rated to work 10 years on internal battery
[14:12] <arko> LeoBodnar: friends in Armenia don't know any hams :/
[14:12] <arko> Sorry
[14:13] <DL1SGP> I will try Armenia Echolink again :)
[14:13] <arko> Smart!
[14:14] <arko> CQ! Help!
[14:14] <arko> Oh wait
[14:14] <arko> I speak Armenian
[14:14] <arko> I should try as well!
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[14:14] <DL1SGP> there is one link station on :)
[14:14] <arko> Say
[14:15] <arko> "Barev"
[14:15] <arko> It means hello :)
[14:15] <DL1SGP> let me get my vodka!
[14:15] <DL1SGP> will get easier
[14:15] <arko> Hahaha
[14:15] <DL1SGP> for Leo's project it is permitted to get drunk :P
[14:16] <DL1SGP> nobody does answer
[14:17] <Laurenceb> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/Market_Communication/GestIC_Press_Presentation_Final.pdf
[14:19] <nats`> hey I want a drink too
[14:20] <arko> I got a beer now
[14:20] <arko> Cheers
[14:20] Action: arko smacks his cup to his phone with irc open
[14:20] <nats`> I could but at work something suggest me that's not a good idea
[14:20] <arko> lol
[14:20] <arko> Do what I did and go on holiday
[14:21] <LeoBodnar_> Got an email from UU4JLM just now. He says that he is monitoring now but can't hear anything. Well keep monitoring. I guess B-12 moved further towards Stavropol / Caucasus.
[14:21] <arko> Excellent
[14:21] <nats`> "And soon on reality show named `News` Russia declare war on Leo !"
[14:22] <arko> I'm going to call it now, its going to disappear and reappear in england in like a week
[14:22] <HixWork2> ffs http://www.spacexc.com/en/bookings/ no paypal facility :/
[14:22] <adamgreig> or america
[14:22] <adamgreig> you'd better have a listen when you get home arko :P
[14:22] <arko> Yes!!!
[14:22] <arko> I'll setup my rig
[14:23] <arko> That would be amazing
[14:23] <enkidu> btw ib balloons were a little more reflective to microwaves, we could try to track them on meteo radars
[14:23] <LeoBodnar_> Well one balloon is in Russia another in Libya, I am afraid Mr Putin might disagree to agree.
[14:24] <arko> adamgreig: I maybe grabbing drinks with the guy who created the hackrf in London Thursday afternoon if you would like to join
[14:24] <arko> Leo will get elected prime minister
[14:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en560048
[14:25] <Laurenceb> this is epic
[14:25] <LeoBodnar_> In exile maybe
[14:25] <LeoBodnar_> Laurenceb: controlling balloons by waving at them?
[14:26] <arko> Shoo!
[14:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well you won't hear much if they used LW for the telemetry! The excitation field is at 100KHz!!
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[14:35] <nats`> <LeoBodnar_> Well one balloon is in Russia another in Libya, I am afraid Mr Putin might disagree to agree. <= I quote this one for me :D
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[14:39] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[14:43] <craag> A couple of questions on NOTAMS - 1) Where can you get the OS Maps from? 2) Do you normally print it, sign it and scan it back in, to then email?
[14:45] <mattbrejza> bing maps has an OS layer
[14:45] <mattbrejza> or go to the library and scan it
[14:47] <craag> Yeah I was wondering if Bing was acceptable.
[14:48] <craag> Ok cool, I'll do that then.
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[14:48] <HixWork2> craag - if you need something better - I havve memory map of the whole of the UK so can give you a pdf of the selected area if you need
[14:50] <nats`> question why not integrate OpenStreetmap (don't know if it's possible)
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[14:52] <craag> HixWork2: I've just found academic access to OS maps :)
[14:52] <craag> (thanks mfa298 )
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[14:54] <HixWork2> cool
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[14:55] <HixWork2> openstreetmap doesn't use OS mapping nats`
[14:55] <nats`> maybe dumb question but what is "OS" in that case ?
[14:55] <craag> Ordnance Survey
[14:56] <nats`> oky I'll take a look :)
[14:57] <nats`> uhhmm I don't know what it change is it the TOID of each object ?
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[15:03] <navrac_work> I always get a picture of someone going around saying ' 1 bomb, 2 bombs, 3 bombs' when i read ordnance survey
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[15:04] <mfa298> navrac_work: lol
[15:05] <LeoBodnar_> Bullets list
[15:06] <navrac_work> clip board
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[15:17] <HixWork2> round table
[15:17] Nick change: HixWork2 -> HixWork
[15:18] <LeoBodnar_> 'tis con-fusing
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[15:19] <LeoBodnar_> Technology Gala Dinner 2013 at De Montfort Uni - is it HAB related by any chance?
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[15:21] <eroomde> suspecting not?
[15:21] <eroomde> de montgolfier uni?
[15:22] <LeoBodnar_> Got invite - no idea where from and whom from.
[15:22] <eroomde> Unity is causing great divisions between me and linux
[15:22] <adamgreig> use awesome
[15:22] <adamgreig> ditch unity
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[15:23] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:23] <eroomde> that sounds like some kind of silicon value poser blog subtitle
[15:23] <eroomde> 'use your awesome'
[15:23] <Laurenceb> 10mw 434 to a handheld yagi via moonbounce
[15:23] <Laurenceb> gives you 2bits/day
[15:23] <adamgreig> http://awesome.naquadah.org/
[15:23] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: sometimes two bits a day is enough
[15:23] <eroomde> doy uou use it?
[15:23] <adamgreig> yea
[15:23] <eroomde> 2 bits per day?
[15:23] <adamgreig> have done for years now
[15:24] <adamgreig> oh
[15:24] <adamgreig> I don't use two bits per day
[15:24] <eroomde> 'am i still here? yes/no'
[15:24] <adamgreig> sometimes knowing that someone is still there is all that matters
[15:24] <Laurenceb> lol confusion
[15:24] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: has anyone actually got that working?
[15:24] <LeoBodnar_> They all came back adamgreig
[15:24] <adamgreig> you might get two bits per day in theory but I'd love to see it in practice
[15:24] <Laurenceb> moonbounce?
[15:24] <Laurenceb> its been done with 3mw @ 434
[15:24] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: 10mW 434MHz moonbounce with handheld yagi
[15:25] <eroomde> this man has too much irc
[15:25] <eroomde> http://awesome.naquadah.org/images/6mon.medium.png
[15:25] <adamgreig> wat, 3mW?
[15:25] <adamgreig> what was that, a bit per week?
[15:25] <adamgreig> eroomde: i can only aspire
[15:25] <Laurenceb> they used Jodrrel bank
[15:25] <Laurenceb> however you spell it
[15:25] <adamgreig> not sure that's quite the same as a handheld yagi
[15:25] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:25] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar_: they all came back?
[15:26] <adamgreig> eroomde: but basically it's a tiling window manager (not unlike xmonad) but not one that strives to be keyboard-pure
[15:26] <LeoBodnar_> adamgreig: sometimes knowing that someone is still there is all that matters
[15:26] <adamgreig> so you can use the mouse to rearrange windows and resize windows and etc if you want, which is frankly quick and convenient
[15:26] <adamgreig> but you can in theory only use a keyboard, which is also nice
[15:26] <adamgreig> depending on where my hands happen to be
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[15:27] <adamgreig> you can run it with gnome - which I am doing atm - so you still have things like gnome's hardware automount and settings stuff and gnome-panel
[15:27] <adamgreig> (I use gnome3-classic)
[15:27] <adamgreig> but you can also run it without any gnome at all, which I've done a lot, and that's also nice
[15:28] <LeoBodnar_> Sunset over Caucasus
[15:28] <adamgreig> it's amazing for things where what you want is to use all your screen space and split it between, say, vim mostly with a bar at the bottom for another terminal
[15:28] <adamgreig> or schematic and pcb at the same time
[15:28] <adamgreig> or half a screen of docs and half a screen of vim
[15:28] <adamgreig> or whatever
[15:29] <adamgreig> like that divvy thing for os x, but all the windows are tiled all the time
[15:29] <eroomde> i seees
[15:29] <adamgreig> you can apt-get it on ubuntu
[15:29] <adamgreig> so it's not hard to try out
[15:30] <adamgreig> for some reason ubuntu's default install of it has it as a hidden desktop option, so edit /usr/share/xsessions/awesome.desktop and remove the line that makes it hidden (visible=false? idk)
[15:30] <adamgreig> then when you log in, click the ubuntu icon next to your user name and select 'awesome' instead of 'unity' or 'default'
[15:30] <adamgreig> and then try to ignore the frankly awesome default background wallpaper
[15:30] <adamgreig> awful*
[15:30] <adamgreig> god
[15:30] <adamgreig> awful awesome default background wallpaper
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[15:30] <adamgreig> just to confuse you, the library awesome uses for managing widgets is called awful
[15:32] <Laurenceb> haha
[15:32] <HixWork> does anyone have a source of sprung connectors and such like for test stuff?
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[15:37] <mattbrejza> pogo pins?
[15:37] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/p100-h-250-g/plunger-serrated/dp/1568268?Ntt=1568268
[15:38] <mattbrejza> protopic dont have moq
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[15:44] <Willdude123> It seems my board isn't perfectly rectangular.
[15:44] <Willdude123> How can I fix that?
[15:45] <enkidu> sandpaper?
[15:46] <adamgreig> drag the corners?
[15:46] <HixWork> cheers eroomde
[15:46] <eroomde> there are variations on that theme
[15:46] <eroomde> in terms of how spikey the end is or whatever
[15:46] <HixWork> does it need to be completetly square Willdude123 ?
[15:46] <Willdude123> Mitch said so
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[15:47] <HixWork> got to make a test jig for doing spectrometry on SMD LEDs eroomde
[15:47] <adamgreig> Willdude123: probably just dragged one of the board edges off corner
[15:47] <adamgreig> use the grid to check things are aligned
[15:47] <HixWork> Oh, Willdude123 in eagle you mean?
[15:47] <adamgreig> and fix that corner
[15:47] <Willdude123> What grid size>
[15:47] <HixWork> use the info button and check the outline, you can then make sure co-ordinates are lined up and square Willdude123
[15:47] <eroomde> nice sounds interesting HixWork
[15:48] <Willdude123> They aren't though.
[15:48] <HixWork> forget grid - just use properties
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[15:48] <Willdude123> I can see they aren't.
[15:48] <Willdude123> But then how do I make them square freehand?
[15:48] <adamgreig> uhm, if you haven't had snap-to-grid turned on when making the pcb...
[15:48] <adamgreig> eagle has snap to grid on by default
[15:48] <adamgreig> so just use that and snap them to be aligned
[15:49] <adamgreig> shouldn't be hard
[15:49] <HixWork> eroomde its not really, but I get to play with blinkenlights and it is called work. plus I am desiging a loony bike light on the side whilst I'm at it. Been given tracePRO - lighting CAD plugin
[15:50] <HixWork> but am also working on a HUD for automotive use - they're coming to normal cars. Cue fighter helmets
[15:50] <Astrobiologist> I am still being haunted with PL259 connectors
[15:50] <Astrobiologist> I thinking about having two dipoles at home, one for 70cm and one for 2m
[15:50] <HixWork> Willdude123 select the line do properties and then set co-ords manually
[15:50] <Mik_WD8MNV> i'm being invaded by SMA connectors
[15:50] <Astrobiologist> And somebody suggested a duplexer for me
[15:51] <Willdude123> Done
[15:51] <HixWork> simples
[15:51] <Astrobiologist> Plenty of duplexer that cover exactly these frequencies
[15:51] <Astrobiologist> But all PL259s
[15:51] <Astrobiologist> I reckon all the SMAS are round your place Mik_WD8MNV
[15:52] <DL7AD> who was the guy in crete=
[15:52] <DL7AD> ?
[15:52] <DL7AD> does anybody know?
[15:52] <eroomde> HUD in cars - does smell like the future
[15:53] <HixWork> all i need now is hellfires ion the fog light apertures and target acquisition roundel in the HUD commute on M25 sorted :)
[15:53] <adamgreig> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/review-garmin-hud-is-sharp-functional-pricey/
[15:53] <adamgreig> car HUD
[15:53] <adamgreig> does look cool
[15:53] <HixWork> ARS
[15:53] <adamgreig> eroomde: oh my god, there goes the rest of the day. http://www.slant.co/topics/67/~what-are-the-best-programming-fonts
[15:54] <eroomde> must resist
[15:54] <adamgreig> :D
[15:54] <adamgreig> I already have so many mono fonts on my system
[15:54] <eroomde> every time i go on sites like that now i try and do some SICP instead
[15:54] <adamgreig> haha
[15:54] <adamgreig> nice
[15:54] <HixWork> we are trying to get a windscreen cut somehow - its a mare. waterjet - no, diamond cutting 5 axis seems the only way
[15:55] <eroomde> sourc code pro
[15:55] <eroomde> never heard of it before
[15:56] <eroomde> but looks nice
[15:56] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: All the duplexers I've come accross tend to be N or PL259/SO239, Often PL259/SO239 for 2m and N for 70cm
[15:56] <Laurenceb> HixWork> whats up with waterjet?
[15:56] <eroomde> i need to whip up my gps vomit into a presentable notebook, that reminds me
[15:56] <adamgreig> i have source code pro installed. for programming i mostly use pragmata pro. but inconsolata is an old favourite and i use that for irc
[15:56] <adamgreig> oh yes please
[15:56] <adamgreig> please include the diagrams too
[15:56] <HixWork> toughened glass has stress built in, it just crumbles on cutting Laurenceb
[15:57] <Laurenceb> oh
[15:57] <Laurenceb> wait wut
[15:57] <Laurenceb> you are cutting it after its heat treated?!
[15:57] <eroomde> yes i'll include the diagrams
[15:57] <HixWork> yes Laurenceb only for test rig
[15:57] <Laurenceb> i see
[15:57] <Laurenceb> thats not making it easy
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[15:58] <HixWork> just need 1/4 of a screen - just how its panned out
[15:58] <HixWork> I'm still loving the idea though. Top gun action in the test room :D
[15:59] <mfa298> Astrobiologist: if you could find somewhere that sells it the CF-4160N has N on all connectors
[15:59] <Willdude123> adamgreig, remind me, one time at school some idiot asked me why I was reading a website with the "Exact font that programming is done in"
[15:59] <HixWork> speaking of waterjet cutting - you could get some sweet HAB enclosures cut that way...
[15:59] <Astrobiologist> Thanks mfa298
[15:59] <Willdude123> What he doesn't know, he just makes up
[16:00] <adamgreig> Willdude123: haha
[16:00] <Astrobiologist> I was looking at things like www.hamradio.co.uk/accessories-general-duplexers-pc-31.php
[16:00] <adamgreig> it's true, all programming must be done in one specific font
[16:00] <adamgreig> you may not use any other fonts
[16:00] <HixWork> C in comic sans ftw
[16:00] Action: HixWork ducks
[16:00] <daveake> ^ beat me to it :)
[16:00] <adamgreig> I will end you :D
[16:00] <Willdude123> I facepalm when anyone uses comic sans.
[16:00] <HixWork> heh
[16:00] <Willdude123> You should need a license
[16:01] <adamgreig> you do. unfortunately windows includes one.
[16:01] <Willdude123> And it should only be allowable for use with dyslexic children.
[16:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tza6Hl8wSJ0&feature=player_embedded#t=107
[16:01] <Laurenceb> saywhat
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[16:03] <Astrobiologist> One of those duplexer's has an N connector out for 70cm but still they all have PL259 on the input
[16:03] <Laurenceb> buzzword bingo
[16:04] <mfa298> I've come accross comic sans being recommended in other environments as well as it's supposed to be more readable. However that's usually for places where the lighting might be quite poor.
[16:05] <Astrobiologist> I know there shouldn't be an apostrophe in duplexer's but for some reason my Blackberry insists on it
[16:05] <adamgreig> mfa298: there are _definitely_ better fonts for high readability in poor lighting
[16:05] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/iiFfWI te hee hee
[16:06] <LeoBodnar_> I can see either RP costing £100, being made in China or this company going bust within 2 years.
[16:07] <adamgreig> HixWork: it's a great font.. for automatic comic strips
[16:07] <DL1SGP> I was just attacked by a glass door, when installing it on the guidance bar it went into a zillion pieces
[16:07] <DL1SGP> only minor cuts
[16:08] <LeoBodnar_> Comic sans is suitable only for talking dogs
[16:08] <Willdude123> ahem ahem Mr Corish ahem
[16:08] <DL1SGP> reminds me of MS Comic Chat times LeoBodnar
[16:09] <LeoBodnar_> oO DL1SGP
[16:09] <Babs> I ignore any proposal which uses comic sans in any form as a rule. I will not invest alongside comedians.
[16:10] <nerdsville_work> Comic Sans was good enough for Higgs Boson! ;-)
[16:11] <Laurenceb> itt: nerds talk about fonts
[16:11] <Laurenceb> AGAIN
[16:11] <Astrobiologist> What font were the glass door's instructions in?
[16:12] <Babs> font science is actually quite interesting. i read a book on it once.
[16:12] <Babs> as in how fonts are designed with the user and context in mind (road signs needing to be read at speed etc.)
[16:12] <Laurenceb> font science
[16:12] <Laurenceb> WUT
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[16:14] <HixWork> I thought a font was for blessing yourself on entry into the church or baptisms :)
[16:14] <Babs> science, from the second interpretation - "a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject"
[16:14] <Babs> hence font science
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[16:14] <DL1SGP> I think it was Arial Astrobiologist
[16:15] <Willdude123> I've never understood why people of my generation think every event in their life warrants a selfie.
[16:15] <Willdude123> "Out for pizza", "At Nando's", "At Cinema", "Waiting for bus"
[16:15] <Babs> cos you never had to pay for films to be developed, thats why
[16:16] <Babs> nandos warrants a selfie though, that place is mega
[16:16] <Babs> at all times
[16:16] <bertrik> "a selfie"?
[16:16] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/oz7pob
[16:16] <Steve_2e0vet> can anyone point me in the direction of a guide to enable me to do sstv with the pi
[16:16] <Willdude123> Nando's is awesome.
[16:16] <Willdude123> bertrik, A selfie is a photgraph of oneself.
[16:17] <Willdude123> Typically taken in a mirron.
[16:17] <Willdude123> *mirror
[16:17] <DL1SGP> yeah anyhow, cheer me up and tell me that the balloons were heard somewhere
[16:17] <HixWork> by a moron in a mirror, hence mirron
[16:17] <bertrik> it took me ages to figure out why some phones have this shiny curved piece on the back
[16:17] <Ugi> comic sans - I use it all the time for children because the "a" s look like the ones you are taught to write
[16:18] <Ugi> who writes an a with a curly bit on top?
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[16:18] <DL1SGP> portugese?
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[16:19] <HixWork> Nando's then :) right I'm off to do battle with a non working M25
[16:20] <HixWork> asta la proxima
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[16:33] <mattbrejza> hey Laurenceb i heard you like arduino http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun?from=Main.ArduinoYUN
[16:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody played with RigCAT on dl-fldigi ?
[16:34] <adamgreig> eroomde: found a cute crt for the radar http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DG7-31-95436-MULLARD-3-CRT-/271218114657
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[16:35] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE: I've had rig control working from windows with my TS-2000 (I think that was using RigCAT rather than Hamlib)
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[16:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Did you have to do anything special when selecting a "rig.xml" file, all copies of fldigi/dl or otherwise simply lock when I select a file ... :-(
[16:37] <mfa298> I don't think I had any issues.
[16:38] <mfa298> It may have locked up for a bit when changing serial port but it came back fairly quickly
[16:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK I'll try another file, it is an Alpha version for controlling the SDR-Radio so its perhaps suspect!
[16:38] <mfa298> I'm using a decent USB-Serial port though, Not a cheap PL2303 (I'd had issues previously with the cheap ones not working with HRD)
[16:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> I haven't even got as far as selecting a virtual serial port, but that element seems to work as SDR-Radio includes its own test routines!
[16:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah think I found the problem it doesn't allow "-" in the file name.....
[16:42] <enkidu> mfa298: I had issues with every usb serial port on windows. Dont know, why
[16:44] <mfa298> I bought one which costs significantly more than the pl2303 ones - I think it was something like £40 rather than £5. I've never had an issue with it (but lots of issues with the cheap ones)
[16:45] <enkidu> I had issues with ftdi based ones, windows was renumerating them
[16:46] <eroomde> take one hair dryer stand
[16:46] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hair-Tools-Chrome-Mounted-Hairdryer/dp/B0018LEJCU/ref=sr_1_1?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1378831522&sr=1-1&keywords=hair+dryer+holder
[16:46] <mfa298> BDCCCircle.js, line 93 - Unable to set property color of undefined or null reference
[16:46] <eroomde> cut some bits off, weld some other bits on, paint it grey, all to ensure there is no Essex left in it
[16:46] <Babs> I wonder how you got your locks so lustrous eroomde
[16:46] <Babs> *wondered
[16:46] <eroomde> et voila, one heat-shrink airgun holder for the electronics lab bench
[16:46] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/03ovz8445vt3pzz/2013-09-10%2017.44.35.jpg
[16:46] <enkidu> eroomde: I have seen toilet brush dolder antenna already
[16:47] <enkidu> holder*
[16:47] <adamgreig> eroomde: haha, nice
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[16:52] <eroomde> ok time to go home and entertain the arko
[16:52] <eroomde> by entertain i mean use him as an excuse to eat out for about the fifth night consecutively
[16:53] number10_ (519a08fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.8.252) joined #highaltitude.
[16:53] <adamgreig> not cooking him a fancy dinner? :P
[16:53] <eroomde> maybe later
[16:53] <eroomde> cba atm
[16:53] <eroomde> work busy
[16:53] <Babs> candlelit
[16:53] <Babs> mars rover love
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[16:54] <Babs> "You had me at Charged Couple Device"
[16:54] <eroomde> biCuriosity
[16:54] <Babs> i've just laughed out loud at work.
[16:54] <arko> that how you look like a crazy person
[16:54] <arko> i do that too much because of irc :(
[16:54] <arko> then think to myself "shit they know im not working..."
[16:55] <eroomde> anyway, leaving
[16:55] <arko> if anyone asks i just say it was a funny code bug
[16:55] <eroomde> see you shortly, darling
[16:55] <adamgreig> "haha this code was just so funny"
[16:55] <arko> eroomde: i do declare
[16:55] <arko> adamgreig: pretty much
[16:56] <arko> someone told me eroomde is a good cook and that i would be eating well
[16:56] <arko> >_> <_< o_<
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[17:00] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[17:09] <tweetBot> @Marty_212: B-11 and B-12 Pico balloons break world duration record http://t.co/o9YLomW08f #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
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[17:11] Action: Chetic just got radio transmission working
[17:11] <Chetic> the sound at 50 baud with "USB" selected in sdr# is just ridiculously cool
[17:11] <Chetic> make that LSB
[17:12] <x-f> when you listen to it long enough, you will start to hear it in noise too
[17:12] <Chetic> lol I can imagine
[17:12] <Chetic> why does the startup wizard in fldigi crash on startup?
[17:12] <Chetic> I want to decode..
[17:14] <x-f> just cancel it?
[17:14] <daveake> Even my tinnitus sounds of rtty sometimes
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[17:16] <Chetic> no fldigi crashes entirely
[17:16] <Chetic> I get no chance to cancel the wizard
[17:16] <craag> weird, what os?
[17:16] <Chetic> x64 win7
[17:17] <enkidu> still no reports
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[17:17] <enkidu> Bs have left civilisation
[17:17] <Steve_2e0vet> can anyone point me in the direction of a guide to enable me to do sstv with the pi
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[17:18] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[17:19] <craag> Chetic: Should work fine, try a re-install?
[17:20] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: sstv? or ssdv?
[17:21] <mattbrejza> Chetic: try deleting/moving the fldigi config files
[17:21] <mattbrejza> in your user's home dir
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[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:24] <Mik_WD8MNV> intel has a new tiny processor
[17:24] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander !
[17:25] <Mik_WD8MNV> http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/10/4715514/intel-quark-internet-of-things-wearable-computing
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[17:26] <sv1iw> 2e0vet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obfyn3iGP50
[17:28] <Chetic> craag: didn't work
[17:28] <Chetic> mattbrejza: will try
[17:28] <mattbrejza> hmm not entirely sure intel knows what the internet of things is
[17:28] <craag> Chetic: Yeah, the config files will be the issue I reckon.
[17:28] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, i was thinking of SSTV first
[17:29] <sv1iw> 2e0vet also here as well http://hsbp.org/rpi-sstv
[17:29] <Steve_2e0vet> sv1iw, cheers I will take a look at those
[17:29] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: If you can find a linux command line util that takes a jpeg and produces a wav of the sstv, I will be *very* interested!
[17:29] <craag> I haven't..
[17:30] <craag> sv1iw: well... thank you!
[17:30] <sv1iw> Steve_2e0vet Ok Steve, name is Manos here, good luck with the pi, I also have 2 around...
[17:31] <Steve_2e0vet> sv1iw, thanks manos
[17:32] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, i am still at the very early stage, ive got a basic tracker ready to fly, so now i want to look at using the pi as well
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[17:32] <craag> Cool, have fun!
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[17:34] <Hix> eroomde did you sucessfully d/l SW?
[17:35] <Hix> or eroomde_
[17:35] <eroomde_> or what?
[17:35] <eroomde_> oh sorry
[17:35] <eroomde_> no not yet
[17:35] <Hix> did you d/l SW ok?
[17:35] <Hix> ah
[17:35] <eroomde_> main laptop not with me
[17:35] <Hix> ok
[17:35] <eroomde_> the one with the hdd
[17:35] <Hix> heh
[17:35] <eroomde_> my macbook air's sad would get super upset
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> craag, I can show you my latest innovation
[17:35] <eroomde_> i need it one more day tomorrow at work then it'll come home and do it on my home connection
[17:35] <Hix> is sad a very unhappy ssd
[17:35] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Go ahead :)
[17:35] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[17:35] <eroomde_> work connection is like 1Mb on a good day
[17:36] <enkidu> eroomde_: poor man
[17:36] <eroomde_> yep
[17:36] <eroomde_> 50Mb at home
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> craag, http://s.gullipics.com/image/m/r/g/5yv9g0-kvemdh-24k4/StormdrifterIISMDCrapPCB2.png
[17:36] <enkidu> 1000Mb here and 10G at work
[17:36] <Hix> I have a glorious 1.5Mb
[17:36] <Hix> both directions
[17:36] <Hix> which is amusing
[17:37] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Looking good! Still not got a ground plane under that antenna track?
[17:37] <LeoBodnar_> Darkside: are you around
[17:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys
[17:38] <craag> Evening G0TDJ_Steve !
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> I had a lenghthy discussion with LeoBodnar about that
[17:38] <LeoBodnar_> Hi Steve
[17:38] <Chetic> what exactly is it that rtl_fm does? I get a bunch of garbage so I assume it's raw rtlsdr data, but what's the format?
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> RTL is a bad TV station in Germany
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can soome one point me in the direction of the standard sentence protocol please? - Hi Leo, Phil
[17:39] <LeoBodnar_> It wasn't about antenna stripline :)
[17:39] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[17:39] <Hix> G0TDJ_Steve http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[17:39] <craag> :P
[17:39] <Hix> bah
[17:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers GUys :-)
[17:39] <mfa298> Chetic: it gives audio data out so you need to pipe the output to something like aplay (with suitable options)
[17:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have my HabDuino running and I'm learning how to do the payload doc
[17:40] <Chetic> mfa298: oh it's just 8-bit audio data?
[17:40] <enkidu> kazakhstan - they have many DXers
[17:41] <mfa298> Chetic: I think that might vary depending on what you're trying to get out of it.
[17:41] <Hix> craag https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz6reb355isac3c/ChipScale_JTI_Antenna-1575AT43A40_2006-09.pdf page 2 for the antenna spec
[17:41] <mfa298> I think this is a command I used to get a local FM station: rtl_fm -W -f 106M | aplay -r 32k -t raw -c 1 -V1 -f s16_le -
[17:41] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, what about a python script https://pypi.python.org/pypi/PySSTV
[17:41] <craag> Hix: Yes.. that's stripline.
[17:41] <mfa298> (don't have speakers on the pi at present to check if it actually works)
[17:41] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[17:42] <craag> not just an isolated track (which is an antenna)
[17:42] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: Yep, saw that on the link, exactly what I'd been looking for :P
[17:42] <Chetic> mfa298: great tips. I'll look into it. really don't want to use an audio cable
[17:43] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, is SSDV must different to sstv, i presume SSDV is digital
[17:43] <mfa298> Chetic: what is it you're trying to do ?
[17:43] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: SSDV is fsphil's protocol for sending jpeg over rtty.
[17:43] <Steve_2e0vet> oh right ok
[17:43] <craag> sstv uses analogue audio, with sync pulses and stuff.
[17:44] <Chetic> mfa298: I'm considering writing a small decoder program that you can just pipe to and get the rtty ascii for further piping wherever you want
[17:44] <Chetic> mfa298: I don't like fldigi very much :p
[17:45] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, are there any tutorials for SSDV?
[17:45] <mfa298> Chetic: you might want to look at http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio and see if you can add stuff onto that.
[17:45] <mfa298> although it's currently not quite able to run on a pi
[17:46] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: Not as such, but http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[17:47] <mfa298> you can also send the raw i/q data from the sdr dongle with rtl_tcp to another machine but that requires a lot of bandwidth, you still need something like sdr# on the client pc
[17:47] <Chetic> mfa298: I can't believe there isn't already a program like the one I described. It could be added to that in like 5 minutes
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[17:48] <mfa298> there are a variety of programs for decoding rtty, dl-fldigi is just the one that people use as it also has the upload to habitat feature built in.
[17:49] <mfa298> The one I linked is in the early stages but the plan from the person writing it is that it can have various decoders built in.
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[17:51] <mfa298> I did start playing with rtl_fm a while ago seeing if I could get it to use other modes instead of FM but didn't have much joy (although no good signals to work with) - I ought to do more testing
[17:56] <Hix> quick C question: what is the difference between the two UBX instructions and why is there a difference in the args? sendUBX(setPSM, sizeof(setPSM)/sizeof(uint8_t)); sendUBX(request, 8);
[17:56] <Hix> sorry thats a bit fugly
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[17:57] <Astrobiologist> So my SWR meter has turned up
[17:57] <fsphil> nice
[17:58] <Astrobiologist> Extremely compact - could fit in the palm of your hand
[17:58] <Astrobiologist> Also, made in Taiwan, not China, so the build quality is likely higher
[17:58] <ike> where did you buy is from
[17:58] <fsphil> the chinese would disagree
[17:58] <Astrobiologist> I think it needs 12V external, which is probably why it is so small!
[17:59] <mfa298> the 12V is probably (hopefully) just for a lamp
[17:59] <Astrobiologist> I got it from eBay, from Merlin Facilities.
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi Astrobiologist
[18:00] <Astrobiologist> It has so239 connectors, but since practically everything else I can find has them too, worrying about this versus N type, SMA etc is probably academic
[18:01] <Astrobiologist> I am thinking of making my own 70cm and 2m dipoles, fixing them permanently, and feeding them via a duplexer
[18:01] <Hix> namely what is sizeof(setPSM)/sizeof(uint8_t) actually doing that stops it being defined as a number?
[18:01] <Astrobiologist> ...and all the duplexer's have pl259s!
[18:02] <Steve_2e0vet> does steve from random aerospace frequent this place, if so any idea of his user name
[18:02] <Hix> rocketboy
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[18:02] <Steve_2e0vet> Hix, cheers
[18:02] <Hix> nps
[18:02] <Steve_2e0vet> i hope he comes on more frequently than he checks his email lol
[18:04] <eroomde_> I was trying to explain to arko the concept of U and non-U
[18:04] <fsphil> Hix: dividing by sizeof(uint8_t) doesn't actually do anything
[18:04] <fsphil> sizeof(uint8_t) is 1
[18:05] <eroomde_> so he ventured that in a restaurant you don;t ask 'excuse me where's your pisser?'
[18:05] <fsphil> sizeof(setPSM) is probably returning the length of the array
[18:05] <eroomde_> close enough
[18:05] <Hix> hmm, struggling to see whay it has been used instead of just a value
[18:05] <arko> lol
[18:05] <fsphil> if the length of the array changes, saves having to change it elsewhere
[18:05] <Hix> ah, yes. nice. cheers
[18:06] <Hix> desperately trying to get some proper code that uses no notsotinyGPS and actually works
[18:07] <Hix> though out of stubborness [and correctness] I refuse to copy paste
[18:07] <Hix> so it WILL go into my brain
[18:07] <Hix> damnit
[18:09] <Hix> thinking of JGC's talk on sat - I don't actually have a debugger :D so I have at least one learning advantage
[18:09] <adamgreig> haha
[18:09] <adamgreig> keep on calling it an advantage when you're knee deep in who knows what is going on
[18:10] <fsphil> it'll save your life some day :)
[18:10] <Astrobiologist> Thumb for scale http://t.co/DkWw3qs9Q3
[18:11] Action: mfa298 is very good at writing bugs
[18:11] <fsphil> what connectors are on it?
[18:12] <Astrobiologist> So259s fsphil
[18:12] <fsphil> that must take up most of the back
[18:12] <fsphil> I've got an swr meter somewhere but not ever used it
[18:13] <fsphil> I just cheat and use the indicator on the ft817 :)
[18:13] <fsphil> even though it's not very accurate
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[18:13] <Chetic> so I got fldigi to not crash by removing the configuration files
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[18:14] <Chetic> but now I'm starting dl-fldigi and it crashes immediately on startup
[18:14] <fsphil> you may need to do the same
[18:14] <fsphil> dl- stores its config in ~/.dl-fldigi
[18:14] <fsphil> shouldn't crash though
[18:14] <jcoxon> evening all
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[18:14] <fsphil> but I've seen it happen -- was on windows though, and I couldn't debug it
[18:14] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
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[18:14] <Chetic> that folder does not exist, fsphil
[18:15] <Chetic> I'm on win7
[18:15] <fsphil> hmm
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[18:15] <Astrobiologist> Lost contact there so if anybody said anything profound about SWR meters or my one or ones with pl259s etc, please repeat... sorry
[18:15] <fsphil> %HOME%/dl-fldigi maybe
[18:15] <fsphil> not sure about windows
[18:15] <Astrobiologist> Anyway, here it is from the back!
[18:15] <Astrobiologist> Do my so239s look big in this? http://t.co/yCbkUvWBDv
[18:16] <Chetic> fsphil: I think it doesn't exist because it was never created
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[18:16] <fsphil> shouldn't crash though
[18:16] <Hix> I'll save the debugger until I'm confident I can write a bug :D
[18:16] <Chetic> I sure do agree
[18:17] <DL1SGP> that swr analyzer has an evil face with huuuuge eyes
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[18:17] <fsphil> Chetic: running the latest version?
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[18:21] <Chetic> fsphil: got the binary from ukhas
[18:21] <Chetic> http://habhub.org/files/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-DL3.1-windows-2abd6a7.exe
[18:22] <fsphil> very odd
[18:22] <fsphil> I can't think why it could crash if the config is not there
[18:22] <fsphil> unless it's reading something from the fldigi config
[18:23] <fsphil> try deleting that too (or just rename it)
[18:23] <fsphil> then start dl-fldigi?
[18:25] <arko> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/U_and_non-U_English
[18:25] <arko> i need to work on some of those
[18:25] <arko> i need to be more drunk
[18:26] <adamgreig> non-U huh?
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[18:26] <adamgreig> huh
[18:26] <adamgreig> never heard that terminology
[18:27] <adamgreig> guess that's what I get for not living in the 50s >_>
[18:27] <fsphil> new one on me too
[18:27] <adamgreig> oh god
[18:27] <adamgreig> I think this codebase uses u8, u32 etc
[18:28] <adamgreig> instead of uin32_t
[18:28] <fsphil> they call ice cream just cream in the US?
[18:28] <adamgreig> and the library it's using that provided that
[18:28] <adamgreig> just changed it
[18:28] <fsphil> what do they call cream?
[18:28] <adamgreig> fsphil: I think it's having you on ;)
[18:28] <adamgreig> ...I hope so
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[18:28] <adamgreig> though I guess you could always say double cream or something
[18:29] <Chetic> fsphil: I did delete the fldigi config as well ofc
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[18:39] <Steve_2e0vet> does "ARP" cache update automatically with other machines on the network
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[18:45] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: machines should learn arp entries from the network. arp entries are just ip <-> mac address mappings though
[18:47] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
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[18:50] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, i am being lazy, want to plug my pi in and then just use my pc to ind its Ip lol
[18:50] <Steve_2e0vet> *find
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[18:51] <fsphil> the pi (if using raspbian) will report its IP address as it starts up
[18:51] <mfa298> it will only show up if the pc has seen a suitable arp packet
[18:51] <craag> nmap is your friend :)
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[18:52] <fsphil> yea, nmap your LAN on port 22 :)
[18:53] <mfa298> I forget most people dont have dynamic dns or ipv6 on their internal network - that makes life so much easier
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[18:55] <mattbrejza> ah ARP, so open to abuse :P
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[18:56] <craag> honestly, nmap -p 22 is what I use to find my pi most of the time
[18:57] <craag> Athough once I left the -p bit out and my housemates IDS kicked me off the network :/
[19:01] <Steve_2e0vet> it also helps if you havent formatted your SD card
[19:01] <Steve_2e0vet> nmap
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[19:02] <fsphil> yes the Pi works better with an operating system :)
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[19:04] <craag> nah, real men load up the firmware blob through the gpio
[19:05] <fsphil> with just a jumper
[19:05] <enkidu> jtag with stripped wires
[19:05] <craag> and their finger as a pull-up resistor
[19:05] <Steffanx> lunix style ...
[19:05] <enkidu> nah
[19:06] <Steffanx> oops
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[19:06] <enkidu> unix style would be : "make some cables first from copper ore"
[19:06] <Steffanx> wasn't meant for here/now :P
[19:06] <craag> meh, kludge time, get out the string and some salted water..
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[19:11] <Hix> another innane UBX query: when I send a NAV-SOL reqest to get lock status i send "Header [0xB5, 0x62,] ID [0x01, 0x06,] 0x00, 0x00, 0x07, 0x16" obviously not annotated thus, but what are the four remaining parts? Sure I've asked but can't find the answer in a any notes
[19:12] <fsphil> should be in the datasheet
[19:12] <craag> There's the checksum that is the last 2 bytes
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[19:14] <Hix> so 0x07 and 0x16 are checksum leaving the 0x00 0x00 which I assume are just empty?
[19:14] <Hix> got pg 172 of the protocol sheet open but can't see what they are for
[19:16] <S_Mark> Hi all, just a quicky - anyone know why the signal is reversed in fldigi when using the funcube dongle, SDR# and dl-fldigi?
[19:16] <S_Mark> is there a setting?
[19:17] <Hix> I remember something being mentioned in the wiki page s_mark
[19:18] <S_Mark> ok will take a look now
[19:18] <craag> S_Mark: Tick 'Reverse I/Q'
[19:18] <craag> it's a quirk with the funcube
[19:18] <S_Mark> where is that tickbox craag
[19:18] <craag> (tickbox on top left in sdr#)
[19:19] <S_Mark> correct IQ?
[19:19] <craag> err nope
[19:19] <S_Mark> swap I Q
[19:19] <craag> 'Swap I&Q
[19:19] <S_Mark> ok
[19:19] <S_Mark> !
[19:19] <craag> yeah that's the one
[19:19] <S_Mark> thanks v much
[19:20] <craag> np
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[19:20] <craag> was great to meet you and cassie at the conf btw!
[19:21] <Steve_2e0vet> did many go to the pub afterwards
[19:21] <S_Mark> same for you, had a great time
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[19:22] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: Yeah, a very good number.
[19:22] <Hix> lots from the look of it Steve_2e0vet
[19:22] <craag> Too many to get a single place for dinner though!
[19:22] <Hix> eating is cheating :)
[19:23] <Steve_2e0vet> i had to get back to paddington for the train, if i had gone i would have probably missed my train
[19:23] <fsphil> yea next time we need to pre-arrange the dinner :)
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[19:23] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: You need to plan better next year then :P
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[19:24] <Steve_2e0vet> i think i need to stay over!!
[19:24] <Steve_2e0vet> was it a late one or just a couple
[19:24] <craag> mfa298 and myself left after dinner as we were headed back to southampton
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[19:25] <Babs> ping eroomde
[19:25] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, driving or train
[19:25] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: mfa driving
[19:25] <Steve_2e0vet> i got the train return 1st class for £30 result
[19:25] <craag> wow nice
[19:26] <S_Mark> just a quicky again - any other settings for the funcube we should know about for dl-fldigi
[19:26] <S_Mark> ?
[19:26] <craag> S_Mark: In the 'Configure' dialog, check the correction is set to 0
[19:26] <Steve_2e0vet> they dont normally see the likes of me in 1st class after a few beers
[19:26] <Steve_2e0vet> is the conference allways held in London?
[19:26] <fsphil> so far yea
[19:26] <craag> S_Mark: (In sdr#, button at the top)
[19:27] <craag> I think if anyone finds a better venue that had decent rail connections, we'd be happy to move. But that venue was great.
[19:27] <fsphil> goodness, I've build gcc twice now and it worked both times. I'm scared
[19:27] <S_Mark> ah cool thanks craag
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[19:28] <craag> fsphil: Yeah ever since the NSA put that backdoor in, it's all worked!
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[19:29] <Hix> Steve_2e0vet quote from jcoxon "it has to be near my place" ;p
[19:31] <Steve_2e0vet> Hix, wheres his place
[19:31] <Hix> not sure
[19:31] <craag> in greenwish I think
[19:31] <Steve_2e0vet> is that James
[19:31] <craag> *greenwich
[19:31] <Hix> yeah
[19:32] <fsphil> not in greenwich, but not too far
[19:32] <Steve_2e0vet> yeah he sounded "southern"
[19:32] <Steve_2e0vet> thought it was in greenwich lol
[19:32] <Steve_2e0vet> am i missing something
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[19:34] <Steve_2e0vet> i recently bought some screwdrivers to take my xbox controller apart to fix it - now i need a new xbox controller
[19:34] <Hix> good investment - you'll not need to buy tools to take the new one apart ;
[19:35] <Steve_2e0vet> they are the best things i have bought off ebay in a while
[19:36] <Hix> Wera make really nice mini drivers
[19:38] <mfa298> I imagine the conf could move somewhere else if someone other than James organised it.
[19:40] <Hix> to be fair, for those travelling from afar, London is probably the easiest. Afar being abroad
[19:40] <fsphil> Upu organised most of this one
[19:40] <fsphil> and it wasn't op north :)
[19:40] <Hix> I don't have a visa for Yorkshire
[19:40] <adamgreig> london probably does make most sense
[19:40] <fsphil> it's impossible to get one
[19:41] <fsphil> also greenwich uni was great
[19:41] <adamgreig> it's got better transit links than anyplace else. though i wonder what the distribution of attendee locations is
[19:41] <adamgreig> yea!
[19:41] <adamgreig> superb location
[19:41] <adamgreig> better public wifi would have been good maybe
[19:41] <fsphil> yes
[19:41] <fsphil> but now that we know
[19:41] <fsphil> we can cheat
[19:41] <adamgreig> but that didn't bother me, yay eduroam
[19:41] <Hix> I've heard if you say you come from Lancashire, they welcome you with open arms. no paperwork needed
[19:41] <adamgreig> ugh. writing this code using a delay() instead of interrupts is coming back to bite me
[19:41] <adamgreig> "oh it will be fine with delay() for 300 baud, no problem"
[19:42] <fsphil> hehe
[19:42] <adamgreig> but now I want 100kbaud...
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[19:42] <adamgreig> I don't think the delay will work so well :P
[19:42] <fsphil> *slight* increase
[19:42] <fsphil> it's at this point I'd basically use hardware
[19:42] <adamgreig> in theory it's still ok... it was delaying by 500,000 NOPs in a loop for 50 baud
[19:42] <adamgreig> so 100,000 could delay for 250
[19:43] <adamgreig> but I suspect the timing overheads will mess it up just a bit.
[19:43] <adamgreig> better use an actual timer
[19:43] <adamgreig> but ugh, faaaaff
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> "If this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it within the next 0 days." Cheers Kodak!
[19:44] <adamgreig> haha
[19:44] <Steve_2e0vet> greenwich isnt the best to get to from paddington 1.5hrs
[19:44] <adamgreig> so helpful of them
[19:45] <adamgreig> Steve_2e0vet: what way did you go?
[19:45] <adamgreig> the route I'm seeing should be about 42min
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> top tip, never buy their printers. I will not rant...
[19:45] <Hix> I really wish I could get to grips with UBX in C, but it seems to stump me
[19:46] <fsphil> Hix: looked at the swift code? might not help but at least give you another reference
[19:46] <Steve_2e0vet> paddington to bank bank on dlr to greewich then walked
[19:46] <adamgreig> to cutty sark?
[19:46] <adamgreig> huh
[19:46] <Steve_2e0vet> yes
[19:46] <adamgreig> how did that take 1.5hrs?
[19:46] <Hix> fsphil swift on github?
[19:46] <adamgreig> underground's journey planner reckons 40-50min
[19:46] <fsphil> Hix: yea. https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/gps.c
[19:46] <Hix> ta much
[19:46] <Steve_2e0vet> dunno, i got to paddington at 8.30 and the uni at 10
[19:46] <adamgreig> huh
[19:46] <adamgreig> fe
[19:46] <adamgreig> interconnecting can take ages
[19:47] <fsphil> took me about an hour getting to the hotel from luton
[19:47] <fsphil> hotel was in greenwich
[19:48] <Steve_2e0vet> thats not bad
[19:48] <fsphil> man luton stinks .. might fly in to another airport next time
[19:48] Action: Hix starts to cry
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[19:49] <Hix> city is really cool fsphil should be able to get Aldergrove to LCY
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[19:52] <fsphil> yes I've heard it's good
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> London City has a great approach with buildings on either side. It's pretty cool
[19:54] <M6PFX> London City is my fav airport when having to go places for work
[19:54] <Hix> apart from 9 months of theyear when it is shrouded in fog
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[19:56] <PaulCDR> evening folks, has anyone got the link handy for submitting a payload for tracking on habhub?
[19:56] <adamgreig> do you mean http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[19:57] <adamgreig> or have you already generated a payload and want it approved?
[19:57] <adamgreig> or do you mean you've received some telemetry and want to upload it?
[19:57] <fsphil> nobody seems to fly to LCY from here
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, things went from bad to worse after deleting those lines in CHDK last night :P
[19:58] <Steve_2e0vet> does anyone know how long SC clearence takes to get
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> CHDK seems to do that
[19:59] <fsphil> haha
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> Im sure it must be a problem with what i'm dojng... but have you actually tested that patch file?
[20:00] <fsphil> I'll generate a new one, just in case I've changed something since
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> Okay cool cheers
[20:00] <Willdude123_> Hi chrisstubbs
[20:00] Nick change: Willdude123_ -> Willdude123
[20:00] <Steve_2e0vet> is the england game on sky or normal tv?
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> can you zip up your patched source so I can try and build that too plese
[20:01] <Willdude123> Got an email back from hackvana, needed to fix a few things
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> Ah okay yeah thats normal :P
[20:01] <chrisstubbs> silkscreen?
[20:01] <Steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs, sent you an email
[20:02] <chrisstubbs> Yeah just PMed you :)
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> Until I met you chrisstubbs I initially thought you were that other guy you launched with on Youtube :P
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> Oh haha no thats dom aka domlin
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> I was looking around for him at the conference and then I saw the name badge and I was like, ah ok :)
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> he was on here for the first time in ages this morning
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[20:04] <Hix> ITV Steve_2e0vet
[20:04] <Steve_2e0vet> Hix, yeah thought it would be just as quick to turn the tv on and have a look
[20:04] <fsphil> having met a lot of the people here before, I found it very difficult associating faces with names
[20:04] <fsphil> I'd recognise someone but not their nick/name
[20:05] <Hix> was domlin there?
[20:05] <Hix> BA should fly there fsphil
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> BA?
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/threeme3/WsprryPi
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[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't think they had aircraft much bigger than Fokkers and AVROs. Though I may be wrong
[20:06] <PaulCDR> sorry adamgreig, baby was kicking off
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> ^LeoBodnar
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> hes not here lol
[20:07] <Hix> ibanezmatt13 trolling? A380...
[20:07] <PaulCDR> im hoping to launch my first balloon this weekend and was i am looking to get a payload approved (i think thats what i need to do)
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> Hix: London City Airport?
[20:07] <fsphil> A380 is awesome
[20:07] <Hix> oh, Dash-8s and BAE146s
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> yea that sort of stuff
[20:08] <Hix> BA operate 146s i think
[20:08] <fsphil> BA only fly to gatwick or heathrow
[20:08] <fsphil> from either airport here
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> I thought they'd stopped going to LCY
[20:08] <fsphil> ah well, luton'll have to do :)
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: you're coming back over? :)
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[20:09] <fsphil> easyjet fly to gatwich and heathrow too
[20:09] <fsphil> wick*
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[20:09] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: probably will at some point
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[20:10] <fsphil> I seem to end up in london fairly often
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[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> it's a cool place
[20:10] <Hix> stansted is nice and easy
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> I think of all the cities, Berlin is my favourite
[20:11] <fsphil> yea they fly to stansted too
[20:11] <fsphil> also Southend
[20:12] <Hix> right time to not do UBX anymore. I'm going to zone out and watch some wildlife business. laters all
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> see you
[20:14] <fsphil> ubx takes a few goes
[20:14] <fsphil> I fussed over it for ages
[20:14] <PaulCDR> can i ask a quick question guys, when transmitting from a payload, is it a good idea to have a counter included
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[20:15] <PaulCDR> would you reset that counter during the flight
[20:15] <fsphil> no
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> no, I would use it as sentence id and increment it each sentence
[20:16] <fsphil> it's useful if for some reason your payload wasn't reporting time correctly
[20:16] <fsphil> if you lost gps lock for a while
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> Which happened to mine...
[20:16] <PaulCDR> ahh ok, good idea, then you know it hasnt died
[20:16] <fsphil> it's not strictly required though
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[20:17] <fsphil> it proved useful on Leo's B-11/12 flights, helped fix up the squiggles the log was making on the map :)
[20:17] <PaulCDR> i was worried about hitting the int limit, but its 32000, need to be a long flight
[20:17] <fsphil> use unsigned int, will give you 65535
[20:17] <PaulCDR> cool, ill do that
[20:18] <fsphil> but 32767 is quite a lot of strings
[20:18] <fsphil> even at 300 baud it would take a while to hit that
[20:18] <fsphil> you'd have to transmit a string every 2.6 seconds for 24 hours
[20:19] <PaulCDR> just timed my string, its 14 seconds
[20:19] <PaulCDR> yeah, plenty of time
[20:19] <fsphil> good that you're thinking of that though
[20:19] <fsphil> there have been many bugs caused by people not considering overflows
[20:20] <fsphil> usually with altitude
[20:21] <PaulCDR> emm, i have alt as an int, better as an unsigned int?
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[20:23] <PaulCDR> no, a char[8]
[20:23] <PaulCDR> thats plenty of space too, right?
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[20:24] <craag> char gives you upto 256..
[20:24] <craag> not enough
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[20:24] <craag> uint_16 will be enough
[20:24] <craag> (65536m)
[20:25] <fsphil> uint16_t
[20:25] <craag> thats the one
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[20:27] <PaulCDR> cheers for that, makes more sense
[20:27] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
[20:28] <PaulCDR> just on a different note, is the standard way of processing the gps data to basically count the commas and read what comes after
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> basically
[20:28] <fsphil> that's probably the simplest way
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Split on , - then interpret whateveris in the 8th comma delimited space - say
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Anything else tends to break on unexpected digit format
[20:30] <PaulCDR> yeah, thats the way im doing it, i remember a while ago someone talking about doing it in binary format i think,
[20:30] <fsphil> probably ubx
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Thjere is...
[20:31] <PaulCDR> some way to query the gps for what you want, i remember trying to read about it in the datasheet, but it just melted my head, maybe next time
[20:31] <PaulCDR> does anyone else do that
[20:31] <craag> Yep the UBX format
[20:31] <fsphil> nothing wrong with reading nmea
[20:31] <fsphil> but you will have to brave enough ubx to set the navagation mode
[20:31] <fsphil> otherwise it will lose lock above 18km
[20:32] <PaulCDR> even with the ublox chips
[20:32] <fsphil> yea
[20:32] <fsphil> the ublox will power up in a mode optimised for the ground
[20:32] <eroomde_> like me in the mornings
[20:32] <fsphil> I power up in sleep mode
[20:33] <PaulCDR> lol
[20:33] <fsphil> interrupts disabled
[20:33] <fsphil> there are good examples on the wiki about setting the nav mode
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/threeme3/WsprryPi/blob/master/wspr.c
[20:33] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> my PLL idea has already been done :P
[20:34] <PaulCDR> i am setting nav mode
[20:34] <PaulCDR> big long ass hex string
[20:34] <fsphil> aye
[20:35] <PaulCDR> on another different note, we dont have a radio, we are planing to use a laptop and sdr, do you think thats safe enough?
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[20:36] <craag> PaulCDR: Where are you based?
[20:36] <PaulCDR> northern ireland, planing to launch from the west,
[20:36] <PaulCDR> i was going to ask the question if anyone knows the guy thats based in cookstown that i would see on the tracker map
[20:37] <craag> ah ok, so not many other listeners
[20:37] <fsphil> PaulCDR: I know him :)
[20:37] <number10> I know him.
[20:37] <number10> ^^^
[20:37] Action: fsphil is from Cookstown
[20:37] <PaulCDR> ahh cool
[20:37] <fsphil> how far west?
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[20:38] <fsphil> I seen a notam near one of the loughs
[20:38] <PaulCDR> enniskillen we are thinking
[20:38] <PaulCDR> notam?
[20:38] <fsphil> notice to airmen
[20:38] <fsphil> you'll need to apply for one before launching
[20:38] <PaulCDR> probably us
[20:38] <PaulCDR> one of the other guys is sorting that bit out
[20:39] <PaulCDR> i think he is trying to get it extended,
[20:39] <fsphil> yea, it's for enniskillen
[20:39] <PaulCDR> where did you see that
[20:39] <fsphil> http://notaminfo.com/nationalmap
[20:39] <eroomde_> also the spy camera just in the corner of your desk
[20:39] <fsphil> ssssh
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[20:40] <PaulCDR> haha, cool, that is us,
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> craag, still on?
[20:40] <PaulCDR> we need to extend to over the weekend
[20:41] <fsphil> I've applied for a launch from Omagh next month
[20:41] <craag> Lunar_Lander: yo
[20:41] <fsphil> the hourly for that is looking quite dire:
[20:41] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/wtarc/
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> http://wspr.lz1ny.net/lz0dls_wsprmap.html
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> insane
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> craag, so the ground plane thingy again
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> we need this on a picoballoon
[20:41] <PaulCDR> quick swim and you will be fine
[20:42] <fsphil> lol
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> when i remember Upu's datasheet, the antenna itself MUST be spared of a ground plane
[20:42] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Yes. But not the track to it
[20:42] <fsphil> PaulCDR: so you've no receiver yet?
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> only the track?
[20:42] <craag> Any track without ground plane underneath will form an antenna
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> let my try it and then I'll show you
[20:42] <craag> sounds good :)
[20:42] <PaulCDR> no receiver, was planing to use an SDR on the laptop
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[20:43] <fsphil> one of the rtlsdr's?
[20:43] <PaulCDR> i got it from upu, the dongle and the filter
[20:43] <craag> PaulCDR: Should be ok, just get plenty of practice with it before the flight (adjusting freq, etc)
[20:44] <fsphil> that should be fine
[20:44] <fsphil> I can track from here but I won't be able to get it all the way to the ground
[20:45] <PaulCDR> seams pretty stable, getting a shift of 366, i seen you can only have prefixed shifts on the application form
[20:45] <PaulCDR> that would be great fsphil, that would be a big help
[20:45] <fsphil> if you think it's going to come anywhere near here let me know. I'll make sure I'm free to go out for it
[20:45] <PaulCDR> thats class, ill keep that in mind, we were hoping to track as best as we could from teh car
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[20:46] <fsphil> I've a good spot up one of the local mountains. basically line of sight to all of the east and south of NI
[20:47] <PaulCDR> on the predictor, whats an avg ascent and descent
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[20:48] <fsphil> the speed in m/s you think the balloon will rise and fall at
[20:48] <fsphil> most flights usually aim for about 5m/s both ways
[20:48] <PaulCDR> ok 5, im landing near drogheda, is that a problem going over the border
[20:49] <fsphil> nah
[20:49] <Bo_DK> q... where is drogheda?
[20:49] <PaulCDR> probably havent got that many planes down south anymore anyway lol
[20:49] <PaulCDR> republic of ireland bo_dk
[20:49] <Bo_DK> ah
[20:49] <PaulCDR> north of dublin
[20:50] <fsphil> the last time I spoke with the IAA, they said it was fine but I should probably notify them anyway
[20:50] <Bo_DK> well... attach a real bottle of whiskey to baloon and they might forgive you :-P
[20:51] <PaulCDR> lol, they would probably prefer a few euros
[20:51] <Bo_DK> PaulCDR: where are you aiming it to land?
[20:52] <PaulCDR> at this stage bo, id be happy just to land on land
[20:52] <PaulCDR> not really aiming anywhere
[20:52] <fsphil> you'll probably land in yorkshire
[20:52] <Bo_DK> just confused slightly... dont you use punds of both side of border?
[20:52] <Bo_DK> i know the british still do
[20:52] <PaulCDR> what kind of range can you pick up fsphil
[20:52] <fsphil> it's euros in the republic Bo_DK
[20:53] <PaulCDR> nah, euros down there
[20:53] <DL1SGP> no, Republic of Eire is a part of Euro Zone
[20:53] <Bo_DK> fsphil: oh....
[20:53] <fsphil> PaulCDR: depends on direction and altitude of the payload. I've managed 600km from some flights over cambridge
[20:53] <PaulCDR> wow, not bad,
[20:54] <fsphil> if you land east of here I can probably track it down to about 1km altitude
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[20:54] <fsphil> maybe less
[20:54] <mikestir> PaulCDR: I can track if I'm about. I'm near liverpool
[20:54] <Bo_DK> well if it goes over denmark can i wish for an 24 year old bottle of the finest eire has? :-D
[20:54] <PaulCDR> are you getter off with a directional antenna too then for when its on the ground
[20:55] <PaulCDR> just in case bo, ill attach one with your name on it
[20:55] <fsphil> a directional is useful if you're having trouble hearing the signal after it lands
[20:55] <PaulCDR> nice one mikestir, cheers
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[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> craag, http://s.gullipics.com/image/m/y/c/5yv9g0-kvewnf-jpju/StormdrifterIISMDCrapPCB3.png
[20:57] <mikestir> heh. debugging an avr by redirecting stdout over rtty works surprisingly well
[20:58] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Can you export that at higher DPI? I can't actually see what's going on.
[20:58] <fsphil> PaulCDR: fire of an email to the list a day or so before launching. you'll hopefully get a few stations tracking
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/h/p/g/5yv9g0-kvewr2-uvmj/StormdrifterIISMDCrapPCB3.png
[20:59] <PaulCDR> list?
[21:00] <fsphil> PaulCDR: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[21:00] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Thanks. You can actually leave a few mm of isolated track before the antenna pad (as in the datasheet)
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[21:00] <craag> ALso, why not make you board smaller by bringing it in a bit?
[21:00] <craag> It's really not going to make much difference at all
[21:00] <PaulCDR> excellent, cheers
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> ok one sec
[21:01] <craag> maybe halve the length of that stripline
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[21:01] <PaulCDR> can you have a quick look at my antenna, and see if its suitable
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[21:02] <PaulCDR> http://imgur.com/MQDeirT
[21:02] <PaulCDR> maplin special
[21:03] <fsphil> do you have a model number?
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[21:04] <PaulCDR> http://www.maplin.co.uk/miniscan-mobile-antenna-29616
[21:04] <craag> Looks weird..
[21:04] <craag> like multibandy
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[21:04] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[21:05] <fsphil> yea it's a bit odd looking
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[21:05] <craag> It is wideband
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/5/6/x/5yv9g0-kvew2v-mani/StormdrifterIISMDCrapPCB4.png
[21:05] <craag> Look alright to me as long as the magmount is strong enough for chase car speeds
[21:05] <craag> I mean speed limits
[21:06] <PaulCDR> so no mad cross country car chases
[21:06] <craag> That looks great to me Lunar_Lander
[21:06] <craag> although
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[21:07] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[21:07] <fsphil> yea it should be fine
[21:07] <craag> Why is your stripline to the antenna so fat?
[21:07] <fsphil> have you done a range test?
[21:07] <craag> Have you calculated the impedance of it?
[21:07] <PaulCDR> no
[21:08] <PaulCDR> how? from up a mountain?
[21:08] <fsphil> if you have one handy
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[21:08] <eroomde_> Lunar_Lander: that looks like a very good board
[21:08] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[21:08] <eroomde_> nice work
[21:08] <PaulCDR> lol, i know of a couple lying about
[21:08] <craag> A good idea to stick the magmount on the car, sit in it with laptop+sdr (as if on a chase) and get someone to walk the payload around the roads.
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks eroomde
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> craag, you mean from NTX2 to the SMA?
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> that's a 50 ohm track, yeah
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> calculated it
[21:09] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Ah, 1.6mm?
[21:09] <eroomde_> i'd probably add some more ground stitching vias
[21:09] <eroomde_> the bias between top and bottom gnd
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> 0.8 mm thickness
[21:09] <eroomde_> vias*
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, yeah now I'll do labelling and vias
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:09] <craag> huh, I got thinner than that. Ok.
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> craag, and then 55 mil came out
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> for a 1.6 mm board I got an insane track width
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> 3 mm or so
[21:10] <craag> Yeah!
[21:10] <craag> Ok cool, yeah look great.
[21:10] <eroomde_> yeah
[21:10] <eroomde_> microstrips are definitely designed for >=4 layer boards
[21:10] <craag> Just cover the whole free space in vias now :P
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[21:10] <eroomde_> with just 0.2mm top layer thinkess
[21:11] <eroomde_> then 50 ohm microstrips conveniently come out at like 12 mil or something
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> actually the cutdown corner
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> 70 mil or something like that :P
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea 66
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> constructed for 10 K heating at 3 amps :P
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[21:14] <PaulCDR> this is the payload antenna i built, is there any test i can do on it
[21:14] <PaulCDR> http://imgur.com/vqCfWsc
[21:15] <craag> Range test is probably best, unless you have a Ham with a 430MHz SWR meter around.
[21:15] <PaulCDR> apart from go up a mountain
[21:16] <PaulCDR> nah craag,
[21:16] <craag> Just walk it around some nearby roads I'd suggest, check you can still hear it from a few streets away.
[21:16] <PaulCDR> even through houses and stuff, should that still work?
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[21:17] <PaulCDR> would something like this be better than an sdr?
[21:17] <PaulCDR> http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/realisticuniden-pro-26-scanner-cb-ham-radio-coverage-is-continuous-from-25-1300mhz-with-no-gaps/1031192414
[21:17] <craag> PaulCDR: You need one that will do SSB
[21:18] <craag> That one won't
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[21:18] <PaulCDR> oh yeah
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[21:18] <craag> and tbh the dongle+habamp combination is rather good, if slightly less neat.
[21:19] <PaulCDR> im starting to think about power now, for the laptop
[21:19] <craag> yeah take a small inverter in the car
[21:20] <craag> run it off an ignition-switched socket so you don't run the battery down at the launch site....
[21:20] <craag> (the car battery)
[21:20] <PaulCDR> something like this? http://www.maplin.co.uk/150w-12v-inverter-48722
[21:21] <craag> perfect
[21:21] <Bo_DK> why not a 12V to whatever lappie uses?
[21:21] <craag> (check your laptop psu isn't more than 150W)
[21:21] <craag> Bo_DK: It does mean you can charge phones/batteries as well.
[21:21] <PaulCDR> sometimes maplins can be quite reasonable,
[21:21] <Bo_DK> yes... ofc
[21:22] <craag> Bo_DK: And I've had bad experiences with those DC-DC converters, two have put out a lot of RF noise.
[21:22] <Bo_DK> yes.. the switchmode... needs to be done right to not make noise... have tried same also
[21:23] <craag> Yeah a lot of them aren't done right. One was actually less efficient than going 12V>240V>19V !
[21:23] <mikestir> I wouldn't trust a cheap DC-DC in a car
[21:24] <mikestir> not with anything expensive anyway
[21:24] <craag> mm
[21:24] <craag> The 240V stuff is a lot better regulated!
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[21:24] <craag> (side effect of annoying legislation)
[21:24] <mikestir> £20 for that inverter is pretty good
[21:25] <mikestir> might have to pick one up
[21:25] <mikestir> probably even cheaper than waiting for an aldi/lidl special
[21:25] <craag> I got a 75W one at asda for 5quid
[21:25] <craag> went back the next day to get more though and they'd gone.
[21:25] <chrisstubbs> I got a 500w off ebay for £15 last month.. cant imagine it will do 500w without much fire happening
[21:25] <mikestir> lol
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[21:26] <chrisstubbs> worked for laptop etc
[21:27] <Bo_DK> anyway bed time here.... have fun
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[21:27] <craag> gn bombd_
[21:27] <craag> unping bombd_
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[21:28] <Steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs, Were you sending SSDV with the camera at the conference?
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[21:29] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2e0vet, yes :)
[21:30] <chrisstubbs> http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[21:30] <craag> I never got to see that, im gutted.
[21:30] <Steve_2e0vet> interesting,
[21:30] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: I think you're in those images
[21:30] <craag> even though I'm in one of them o_O
[21:30] <fsphil> you're in a few :)
[21:30] <Steve_2e0vet> i hope not
[21:30] <craag> *3
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[21:31] <fsphil> I'm there too
[21:31] <Steve_2e0vet> nope im not there
[21:31] <craag> what baudrate is it chrisstubbs
[21:31] <fsphil> yea just looked closer, that's not you
[21:32] <Steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs, can you point me in the direction of a tutorial ideally for python on how to do it. Dont think i will get it done in time for my launch though
[21:32] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[21:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys
[21:33] <Steve_2e0vet> hi steve
[21:33] <fsphil> the ssdv was transmitted directly from a canon camera
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> craag, 600b
[21:33] <fsphil> no python involved
[21:33] <fsphil> but some C and Lua
[21:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey Steve, Chris, Phil, Phil and everyone
[21:33] Action: chrisstubbs hides at the mention of LUA
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[21:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Andy
[21:34] <Steve_2e0vet> i'm gonna use my pi, but need to find out how to do it lol
[21:35] <nerdsville> Hi Steve
[21:35] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2e0vet, pi cam or webcam?
[21:35] <Steve_2e0vet> pi cam
[21:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Steve, When Dave gets back from his trip, I'm hoping he uploads his presentation from the conference. That will help
[21:35] <fsphil> Steve_2e0vet: you can use this on the Pi: https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv
[21:36] <fsphil> compiling that will produce a program you can run from the command line
[21:36] <Steve_2e0vet> G0TDJ_Steve, me too but not holding out much hope... i which i had taken notes
[21:36] <fsphil> that converts a jpeg into the ssdv data
[21:36] <Steve_2e0vet> fsphil, ok thanks i will take a look
[21:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> Of course, You're THAT Steve, sorry. Usless memory me
[21:36] <DL1SGP> Invasion of the Steves
[21:36] <Steve_2e0vet> THAT Steve ???? lol
[21:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D I mean the one at the conference LOL
[21:37] <Steve_2e0vet> which STEVE are YOU!!
[21:37] <Steve_2e0vet> yes lol
[21:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> ;-) I'm That Steve
[21:37] <fsphil> but who's Phil?!
[21:37] <Steve_2e0vet> i presume you were in the PI demo?
[21:37] <fsphil> I'm lost
[21:37] <Steve_2e0vet> I'm Steve
[21:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, long hair bloke at the front
[21:38] <Steve_2e0vet> sort of remember
[21:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> No worries. I'm sure our paths will cross again
[21:38] <Steve_2e0vet> i was the grey haired one at the back, by the way i went grey at 21
[21:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Beat you, first grey hair at 14 :D
[21:39] <Steve_2e0vet> but im only 22 now
[21:39] <Steve_2e0vet> mentally
[21:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
[21:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> YOu can see my Conference pics at: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151907812156111.1073741836.703001110&type=1&l=ef99db374e
[21:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Spot yourself?
[21:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> craag: Habduno still going strong.
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[21:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Habduino even... I think my keyboard needs new batts
[21:41] <fsphil> good picture of Babs
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[21:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is that the one with his SLR Payload fsphil ?
[21:41] <fsphil> yea
[21:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> I didn't know it was him otherwise I would have said Hi
[21:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> There's a test on the Tracker Mod2 and Mod2. Are they in here?
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151907873561111&set=a.10151907812156111.1073741836.703001110&type=3&l=ef99db374e&theater
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> nooooooooooo
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> hipstergram
[21:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Mod1 and 2 of course...
[21:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> I like playing around Laurenceb_
[21:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> I used to be a pro photographer and I got a bit bogged down in settings. Instargram and Hipstamatic kind of freed me from being so.
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[21:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> So, Mod1/2 are you about?
[21:47] <chrisstubbs> darn missed out on the tour of babshab
[21:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Me too Chris
[21:47] <chrisstubbs> I do like what dave did with his badge though
[21:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Apparently that was last years
[21:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> He'd customised it I believe
[21:48] <fsphil> yea
[21:48] <fsphil> bright wee screen that
[21:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, very cool
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[21:58] <PaulCDR> thanks for your help and advice tonight folks,
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[21:59] <PaulCDR> fsphil, ill give you shout towards the end of the week and see how we are fixed
[21:59] <fsphil> np PaulCDR
[21:59] <fsphil> I'm usually about
[22:00] <PaulCDR> good night folks
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[22:03] <fsphil> chdk has the feel of a project made quickly by lots of different people
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> hey S_Mark
[22:04] <S_Mark> hey Lunar_Lander
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[22:05] <S_Mark> good thanks
[22:05] <S_Mark> you\
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> quite good too
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> was just shown this
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_1IDLq4BH0
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> how not to do ballooning
[22:09] <DL1SGP> you got me curious Lunar_Lander
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yes?
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> you know these lanterns are banned in almost all of germany?
[22:09] <DL1SGP> yes, that is a cool video, it has a duration of 1s
[22:09] <DL1SGP> and yes they are banned here
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> save for the state with the funniest name in english
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
[22:10] <DL1SGP> hehe
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> which is Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:10] <DL1SGP> yes
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> one of two states I never visited
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> the other one is the Saarland
[22:11] <DL1SGP> cause there was Eastern Pomerania in history
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:11] <DL1SGP> so they kept the western attribute
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> and why 1s?
[22:11] <DL1SGP> I have been to Saarland
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> the video is about 1 minute long
[22:12] <DL1SGP> maybe NSA stole 59s from me
[22:12] <DL1SGP> for me it is 1s, not more, not less
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[22:12] <craag> DL1SGP: Same here
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> hmmmm
[22:12] <DL1SGP> craag: NSA got ye too
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> here the video is 1:54
[22:12] <DL1SGP> :D
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> let's try a skip http://youtu.be/X_1IDLq4BH0?t=27s
[22:13] <craag> nope
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[22:14] <DL1SGP> it first states it is 1:54 long, then breaks up
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[22:14] <fsphil> playing here
[22:14] <fsphil> take that NSA
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> screenshot http://s.gullipics.com/image/t/e/v/5yv9g0-kvezap-n0o5/Bildschirmfotovom20130911001415.png
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[22:15] <craag> DL1SGP: http://www.youtube.com/embed/X_1IDLq4BH0
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[22:16] Action: DL1SGP thinks he has been in all 16 German states
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[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:21] <DL1SGP> .
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[22:24] <DL7AD> good morning
[22:25] <DL1SGP> Guten Morgen DL7AD and all :D
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[22:59] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[23:02] <chrisstubbs> Night all
[23:02] <chrisstubbs> SSDV CHDK builds for all coming soon....
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 11 2013