highaltitude.log.20130909

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[00:50] <smrtz> Hey, can anyone here help me with the pinout for the u-blox max7 gps pinout? I'm trying to understand pin 6
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[00:57] <wrea> smrtz: its for batt backup
[00:59] <smrtz> I get that, but in Upus schematic, it's to a small resistor, than to ground.
[00:59] <smrtz> I'm amusing that's how that feature is turned off.
[01:01] <wrea> Yeah
[01:02] <jarod> The highest in Loudness http://78.129.167.24:9930/listen.pls 87.5 FM Amsterdam, does that count? :D
[01:04] <wrea> ublox docs say you can connect it to vcc if not using a backup batt
[01:06] <wrea> Looks like connecting it to vcc is acceptable as of the 7's but you can go to gnd like on the 6's just fine
[01:06] <wrea> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/MAX-7_NEO-7_LEA-7_HardwareIntegrationManual_%28GPS.G7-HW-11006%29.pdf
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[02:11] <enkidu> seems, that we need to call libya RX
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[02:56] <crash_18974> This balloon flight has me looking at g-earth way too much. WTF is this - http://imgur.com/a/bU3VL
[02:58] <M6PFX> looks like water treatment
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[03:05] <crash_18974> it's in the middle of the desert. ??
[03:06] <M6PFX> https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=30.154627,38.963013&spn=2.087431,4.22699&t=h&z=9
[03:06] <M6PFX> same in Saudi Arabia
[03:07] <M6PFX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrigation_in_Saudi_Arabia
[03:07] <M6PFX> http://boingboing.net/2013/05/09/satellites-trace-the-appearanc.html
[03:10] <crash_18974> M6PFX: :) Learn something every day. :) Thanks.
[03:11] <M6PFX> no problem
[03:15] <enkidu> overlay says, that sun is coming up, where B-12 should be
[03:16] <enkidu> but if I open the window to turn antenna, wasp swarm will hit inside
[03:33] <enkidu> B-12 is waking up
[03:38] <enkidu> still it is so weak, that every beep seems to reset it
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[05:43] <yo5pjb> Good morning
[05:43] <yo5pjb> It seems that B11 is over Romania right now
[05:43] <Upu> can you receive it ?
[05:43] <yo5pjb> yup
[05:43] <Upu> morning :)
[05:43] <yo5pjb> And I post it
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[05:44] <Upu> hmm whys it not updating
[05:44] <yo5pjb> he is updating
[05:44] <Upu> just refreshing my end
[05:44] <yo2ldk> GM all
[05:44] <yo5pjb> probllem is that the signal is weak and some packets have errors
[05:44] <Upu> thats ok
[05:44] <Upu> morning Romania :)
[05:44] <yo2ldk> @ yo5pjb, cam pe unde este?
[05:44] <yo5pjb> half an hour ago was strong signal
[05:44] <yo5pjb> yo2ldk: Sighisoara
[05:45] <Upu> can you post a few (~3) of the ones with errors ?
[05:45] <yo2ldk> super, pacat ca sunt la job
[05:45] <yo5pjb> My antenna is obturated somehow on the south-west... and also I have a hill in that direction
[05:45] <yo5pjb> so is possible to lost the signal
[05:46] <yo5pjb> but it is in Bucharest another station who is listening
[05:46] <Upu> great :)
[05:46] <jcoxon> morning
[05:46] <Upu> morning jcoxon
[05:46] <Upu> recovered ?
[05:47] <enkidu> listening to B-12 now. unfortunately it is still not charged enough to make complete cycle (fix-transmit)
[05:47] <jcoxon> Upu, not reall
[05:47] <jcoxon> y
[05:47] <jcoxon> oh well
[05:47] <Upu> lol
[05:47] <jcoxon> time for work
[05:47] <jcoxon> enkidu, cool
[05:47] <Upu> have fun
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[05:49] <yo2ldk> arata ca este in Ucraina
[05:50] <yo5pjb> yo2ldk:e gresit, receptia proasta (abia il mai aud) si automat apar erori
[05:50] <yo2ldk> yo5pjb: ok, multumesc!
[05:50] <yo5pjb> yo2lkd: vezi cel mai sudic punct
[05:52] <yo5pjb> Upu: do you know why he sends the coordinates twice ? I saw that they are different
[05:52] <Upu> the last entry I see for B-11 on the map is 23:59:20
[05:52] <Upu> yes there is a 5 min gap between the actual points
[05:52] <yo5pjb> or should be the same coordinates twice... but are errors at reception side
[05:53] <Upu> just transmits every 5 mins
[05:53] <Upu> first is the position at the start of the 5 mins
[05:53] <Upu> the second is the one at the end
[05:53] <yo5pjb> 46.0441,24.9567 this is current possition
[05:54] <Upu> has that appeared on http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[05:54] <Upu> because I can't see it
[05:55] <yo5pjb> $$B-11,6397,054809,46.0718,24.9385,9077,5,3,3.86,0.6*2952 $$B-11,6398,055057,46.0441,24.9567,9014,5,3,3.87,0.61*0023
[05:55] <yo5pjb> this is what I've received 2 minutes agio
[05:55] <G8KNN> it is plotting the path, but not putting the balloon icon in the correct place
[05:55] <Upu> hmm
[05:56] <yo5pjb> on that map the correct location is the one from the South
[05:56] <Upu> good piint G8KNN
[05:56] <yo5pjb> and from unknown reasons he is up now, and at a different time
[05:56] <yo5pjb> up in Ucraine
[05:56] <Upu> oh
[05:56] <Upu> its probably the play back
[05:56] <Upu> every 2 hours it plays back its log
[05:57] <Upu> however for some reason
[05:57] <Upu> the time was 2013-09-09 23:59:20
[05:57] <Upu> should have been 09-08
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[05:58] <Upu> thats whats possibly messing it up
[05:59] <Upu> anyway great work yo2ldk & yo5pjb
[05:59] <Upu> thanks
[06:02] <yo5pjb> right now he is trasmitting over and over again
[06:02] <yo2ldk> upu: sorry, i not received yet, maybe after 16 hour, after job :(
[06:03] <yo5pjb> he transmitted concecutivelly for 10 times ?
[06:03] <yo5pjb> $$B-11,4560,020134,57.0705,13.3604,8743,10,-29,3.72,0*6ef8 $$B-11,4607,040150,57.174,14.0661,8725,4,-28,3.71,0.48*6d59 $$B-11,4650,025,58.4023,14.9644,9101,8,-2,3.83,0.52*73c84697,080226,58,9108,10,5,3.9,0.6,8876,7,1,3.99,0.6d$B-11,4896,12000zm00.69*f62a,5049,1403,5,7,0,4.06,0.67*b64b $$B-11,5183,160113,20.2768,9073,11,-0,4.01,0.57*2d42 $$B-11,5238,180137,58.2056,21.,8829,7,-29,3.85,0.02*0d57 $$B-11,5278,200042,57.5407,21.
[06:03] <yo5pjb> this is from last minute
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[06:03] <yo2ldk> yo5pjb: ma mir ca cei de la KSR l-au receptionat, cand raza de receptie este pana la timisoara doar...
[06:03] <yo5pjb> the coordinated are totally wrong
[06:03] <yo5pjb> nu inteleg nici eu
[06:04] <yo2ldk> o alta minciuna de-a miticilor
[06:04] <yo5pjb> still receiving : $$B-11,5510,060214,53.564,21.1423,9270,5,1,3.84,0.61*8c77 $$B-11,5556,080008,52.9082,21.0071,9135,5,2,3.9,0.68*880d $$B-11,5603,100033,52.314,20.8854,9920,4,2,3.97,0.7*826f $$B-11,5717,120035,51.6822,20.9373,9132,4,3,4,0.69*e4b8 $$B-11,5886,140014,50.9699,20.9561,9109,12,4,4.01,0.66*e3dd
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[06:05] <yo5pjb> Does he transmit somehow the last N coordinates ?
[06:05] <Darkside> yes
[06:05] <daveinsaudi> Leo is going to need good own copy of spacenear
[06:05] <daveinsaudi> S/good/his/
[06:06] <daveinsaudi> I should have brought a radio so i could help track from here
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[06:11] <yo5pjb> I'm not receiving the beacon anymore
[06:12] <Upu> might need you :)
[06:12] <Upu> afk work
[06:13] <yo5pjb> Soon will be in the Bucharest coverage
[06:13] <enkidu> dont know, if B-12's battery is not at short circuit now :(
[06:13] <enkidu> anyways, it really should start transmitting at few minutes
[06:16] <yo5pjb> Good news: http://websdr.yo3ggx.ro:8766/ websdr received ni Bucharest on that frequency
[06:18] <enkidu> do we have receiver near moscow?
[06:23] <x-f> good morning
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[06:29] <x-f> i got back late last night, woke up 7am this morning, but it was 7am UK time, because i forgot to set the clock back to my timezone, heh :]
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[06:39] <enkidu> it is still beeping, but no power t lock yet ;/
[06:40] <enkidu> also, beep tone lower than yesterday
[06:41] <x-f> i'm not seeing anything on the waterfall
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[06:43] <enkidu> I would share audio for you, but I am prohibited to publish streams over internet
[06:43] <enkidu> isp rules
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[06:45] <enkidu> ill share my waterfall shot
[06:48] <UpuWork> morning x-f back home ?
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[06:49] <x-f> Upu, yep, all good, thanks
[06:49] <UpuWork> cool
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[06:52] <eroomde> mornatron
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[06:57] <arko> 9000
[07:07] <fsphil> leo messing the map again
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[07:08] <enkidu> I feel, that if it reach niger, it could pass 10 or even 11 km
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[07:08] <UpuWork> yup fsphil
[07:08] <UpuWork> feel free to fix it
[07:08] <PA1SDB_> $$B-11,6425,070155,45.3335,25.4135,9032,4,8,3.92,0.65*83ac
[07:08] <UpuWork> I think there is a duff point
[07:09] <UpuWork> 2013-09-09 23:59:20
[07:09] <fsphil> it's 23:59:20 on the 8th gps time
[07:09] <fsphil> but the server was on the 9th when it got uploaded
[07:09] <UpuWork> ah
[07:11] <PA1SDB_> $$B-11,6428,070932,45.255,25.4686,9051,4,5,3.94,0.65*7e53
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[07:11] <keydashwork> hi
[07:12] <fsphil> spacenear is killing firefox atm :)
[07:12] <fsphil> morning keydashwork
[07:12] <PA1SDB_> A copy via http://websdr.yo3ggk.ro:8766
[07:12] <UpuWork> cool and fsphil has cleared the path up
[07:13] <UpuWork> oh B-12 is still up too ?
[07:14] <fsphil> yea updated a few minutes ago
[07:14] <enkidu> over belarus?? thats why I couldn receive it properly
[07:14] <DL7AD> i contacted a guy in bucharest who switches his 2m sdr to 70cm for us :) http://websdr.yo3ggx.ro:8766/
[07:14] <UpuWork> excellent :)
[07:14] <fsphil> this is so cool
[07:17] <DL7AD> but i cannot receive anything
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[07:21] <enkidu> SP3 balloon probably alredy is on seabed
[07:21] <PA1SDB_> B11 was just clear via yo3ggk websdr
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[07:22] <DL7AD> can anyone recive b-11?
[07:22] DL1SGP (d90fa1dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.161.221) joined #highaltitude.
[07:22] <DL1SGP> good morning everyone.
[07:23] <yo5pjb> there is an WebSDR received set on that frequency
[07:24] <eroomde> good morning DL1SGP
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[07:25] <DL1SGP> yo5pjb: are you refering to http://websdr.yo3ggx.ro:8766/
[07:25] <yo5pjb> yup
[07:25] <DL1SGP> good :)
[07:25] <yo5pjb> I saw that PA1SDB is using that receiver to track it right now
[07:25] <DL1SGP> yes, looks like it
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[07:26] <yo5pjb> for the moment that SDR receiver has connected a 2m band pass filter
[07:26] <yo5pjb> so that's the reason why the signal is so low
[07:26] <DL1SGP> heh, not to helpful but if the balloon still comes in... that is fine :)
[07:27] <DL1SGP> the robustness of the DominoEX mode will help
[07:27] <yo5pjb> he will disconnect that as soon he be at home
[07:27] <PA1SDB_> 1000Hz beeps are now with websdr at 434500,64 KHz, but drifts a few 100 Hz up and down.
[07:28] <yo5pjb> I will try also to talk with yo3ksr station who was set last night, but from some reasons is not working properly
[07:28] <enkidu> dont worry, domex16 will discriminate it even, if you mistune
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[07:28] <enkidu> FFS
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[07:29] <enkidu> okay, time for hysplit
[07:29] <DL1SGP> possibly I should connect the websdr and add a globaltuners node based on what I hear from that websdr, like that we keep network load distributed a bit better
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[07:30] <PA1SDB_> $$B-11,6435,072719,45.0682,25.5997,9019,4,6,3.96,0.65*bfc0
[07:31] <PA1SDB_> $$B-11,6436,072948,45.0412,25.6188,9049,4,6,3.96,0.65*3f2d
[07:31] <Mik_WD8MNV> that version of websdr is being a pain
[07:32] <PA1SDB_> That where the latest 2 with good checksum from B-11 via websdr yo3ggx
[07:32] <DL1SGP> heh
[07:32] <enkidu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15687_trj001.gif
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[07:33] <enkidu> not good, Ukraine is deaf
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[07:34] <DL1SGP> well based on that hysplit we still have chances that B-12 will be audible in bucharest before it goes to sleep
[07:35] <DL1SGP> I will see if I can talk some HAM from Ukraine into listening for the Balloon when I am on PSK31 later on :)
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[07:41] <DL7AD> hey there is a signal on the sdr!
[07:41] <eroomde> awesome
[07:42] <LeoBodnar> morning
[07:42] <enkidu> hello LeoBodnar
[07:42] <DL7AD> can someone decode it?
[07:42] <eroomde> timed that one well LeoBodnar
[07:42] <fsphil> there he is. Get Him!
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[07:42] <LeoBodnar> I'm being got?
[07:42] <UpuWork> lol
[07:42] <LeoBodnar> :D
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> What sdr? I can have a go at it!
[07:43] <fsphil> I remember wondering if they'd be up by the time I got to the conference
[07:43] <DL1SGP> good morning leo
[07:43] <DL1SGP> http://websdr.yo3ggx.ro:8766/
[07:43] <fsphil> now I'm wondering if they'll be up by the next one
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[07:43] <DL1SGP> working on getting the audio for the balloon streamed through globaltuners network to reduce load on the websdr
[07:44] <DL7AD> http://websdr.yo3ggx.ro:8766/
[07:45] <DL1SGP> Guten Morgen DL7AD
[07:45] <fsphil> websdr's on 434mhz are quite rare
[07:45] <fsphil> that's great luck
[07:45] <DL7AD> guten morgen DL1SGP
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[07:47] <Mik_WD8MNV> needs more sdr dongles
[07:48] <fsphil> B-11's track is nearly very rude
[07:48] Nick change: Guest36457 -> danielsaul
[07:49] <Darkside> the combination of them alrady is
[07:49] <Darkside> i alreadh had someone remark it looks like something el reg would write about
[07:50] <eroomde> B-11 - the hefner
[07:50] <eroomde> long-lived, should really be dead by now, still only got one thing on its mind
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[07:53] <DL1SGP> ok folks
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> my audio cuts out after about a minute, maybe overloaded server?
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for cleansing the map once again! :D
[07:54] <DL1SGP> I brought up a node on GT :) http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/286/
[07:55] <tweetBot> @geenweer: Great! High Altitude Balloon B-11 is being decoded by @P_Knol over YO via websdr #UKHAS
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> Oh, B-12 alive again?
[07:55] <tweetBot> @PD3EM: Great! High Altitude Balloon B-11 is being decoded by @P_Knol over YO via websdr #UKHAS
[07:56] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: yea
[07:56] <fsphil> I didn't expect it to be in range
[07:57] <UpuWork> I've mailed Greece
[07:57] <UpuWork> and by proxy Morocco
[07:57] <LeoBodnar> Does NOAA keep prediction for some time? After this is all done and dusted I want to go back and fill in missing parts of the flightpaths
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[07:58] <LeoBodnar> Splendid
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[07:59] <DL1SGP> http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/286/vk4fsgw now is relaying B-11 signal
[07:59] <LeoBodnar> Thanks for the conference to all who helped organising it! I really enjoyed it :D
[08:00] DL7AD (57bd7444@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.116.68) joined #highaltitude.
[08:00] <WillDWork> it was an excellent conference - good to put faces to names/handles
[08:01] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[08:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> Morning Guys
[08:02] <WillDWork> morning - was just looking at those conf pics Steve
[08:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> B11/12 STILL Going - Wowser!
[08:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Will, Hope you like them
[08:04] <LeoBodnar> Great shots G0TDJ_Steve. It's good when people are not carried away and remember to take photos.
[08:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D I was carried away!
[08:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> But I'm used to taking pics
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[08:05] <G0TDJ_Steve> And generally to everyone, if you want to publish or use the pics anywhere, please feel free to do so. If you want a better resolution version, you only have to ask.
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[08:06] <PA1SDB> Someone here who likes to receive the log of 08 UTC ?
[08:06] <LeoBodnar> B-11 went timeshift again :) is it because of the log?
[08:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just gotta sort something, back soon
[08:07] <PA1SDB> Almost 100% copy of the log via WEBsdr
[08:07] <danielsaul> G0TDJ_Steve: Where are the conf pics?
[08:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> danielsaul: Mine are at: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151907812156111.1073741836.703001110&type=1&l=ef99db374e
[08:08] <danielsaul> Ah, cheers
[08:09] <UpuWork> we had about 40 watching on the stream
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[08:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Lee M6DRS told me he was watching on the day and another friend Steve reported watching too UpuWork
[08:13] <number10> danielsaul: some pics of eds talk http://www.flickr.com/photos/65839734@N04/sets/72157635434184382/ if you havent seen them
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[08:15] <danielsaul> number10: Thanks, haven't been online since the conf so haven't seen anything
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[08:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> cheers number10 I've added you as a contact too
[08:18] homewld (5698ccd9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.152.204.217) joined #highaltitude.
[08:18] <number10> :)
[08:19] es8tjm (258f45ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.143.69.237) joined #highaltitude.
[08:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyone else have any conference images? Perhaps we should collate them somewhere.
[08:19] <fsphil> I only got a couple, will upload them when I get home
[08:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> No worries
[08:19] <mikestir-work> morning. anyone know if BOC's "Universal filling kit" has a party balloon style nozzle?
[08:20] <x-f> i'll have some pics too, but haven't sorted them out yet
[08:20] <number10> up said he will sort at the 2013 conf page on the wiki when he has time - so when thats done people can put a link there to pics
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[08:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool number10
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[08:22] <number10> my typing is getting worse, maybe its this new keyboard or just that I am noticing the mistakes more
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[08:24] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: the map has a jump again for B-11 - is this because the log keeps filling up with older entries or somebody uploaded old data?
[08:25] <fsphil> it'll be the log
[08:25] <fsphil> checking
[08:25] <fsphil> when it sends a log line from the previous day, the server gives it todays date
[08:26] <fsphil> we really need to trim the number of points :)
[08:27] <DL7AD> ah the map is upsidedown again... -.-
[08:27] <fsphil> fixed now
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[08:28] <fsphil> if it travels east at it's current pagce, it'll be 7 weeks to get to the US
[08:28] <fsphil> -g
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> Ta fsphil
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[08:33] robroy (d5217032@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.33.112.50) joined #highaltitude.
[08:33] <DL7AD> never seen so many receivers iin the world .)
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[08:34] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: is hysplit up to date?
[08:34] <LeoBodnar> Does anybody have a link to a screenshot with dl-fldigi receiving B* in DominoEX?
[08:35] <DL7AD> i can make one
[08:35] <HixWork> is B11 still going LeoBodnar ?
[08:36] <HixWork> see B12 is ging well but 11 shows yesterday @~18:00
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> DL7AD: It's kinda impressive how people keep popping up ahead of the flightpath
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: reload
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: it was playing back log - it's finished now - and is transmitting live
[08:37] <SpeedEvil> And just flew 5 miles away from a couple of trackers
[08:37] <HixWork> ahhh. I'd only just booted into the work PC so knew it wasn't a browser cache thing
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[08:38] <SpeedEvil> Over scenic bucharest.
[08:38] keydashwork_ (581392f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.19.146.240) joined #highaltitude.
[08:39] <x-f> 77 towers on the map
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[08:41] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar www.dl7ad.de/b_11_romania.png
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[08:44] Ugi (d4facd31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.250.205.49) joined #highaltitude.
[08:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> One from me LeoBodnar http://imgur.com/Wlg0TNK
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[08:51] <DL1SGP> Reminder: If you wish to keep load on the WebSDR in Bucharest a bit lower, feel free to connect to Globaltuners Network: http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/286/vk4fsgw the audio from SDR is being relayed through it
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[08:54] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[08:57] <LeoBodnar> Thanks DL7AD !
[08:57] <DL7AD> no problem. try to find some receivers in turkey
[08:57] <DL7AD> .... thats more difficult than romania and greece
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[09:03] <Babs> Chaps - A big thanks from me for everyone who organised Saturday's conference/spoke there. I had a great time. Cheers, Babs.
[09:04] <Babs> PS How do they get the paper planes into the orbiting GPS satellites to enable them to be fired at Earth anyway?
[09:06] <HixWork> forgot to have a look at your camera settings Babs
[09:07] <Babs> Damn. I knew there was something. Sorry Hixwork - I get my aluminium bits in a couple of days. good tip you gave me there.
[09:08] <HixWork> oh, sweet. I'd be really interested in seeing them once they arrive
[09:08] Lunar_LanderU (83ad0bed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.173.11.237) joined #highaltitude.
[09:08] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:08] <DL1SGP> Welcome to Bulgaria B-11
[09:08] <DL1SGP> hello Lunar_LanderU
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[09:09] <HixWork> hi Lunar
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[09:11] <chrisstubbsW> Howdy domlin, not seen you on here in a while
[09:11] <domlin> hola chrisstubbsW, yeah it's been a while.
[09:12] <chrisstubbsW> Going to try and do a pico over the next week, then a big flight with this CHDK SSDV thing in a month or so if your up for it
[09:12] <domlin> yeah sounds good to me!
[09:13] Nerdsville_ (516285cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.98.133.203) joined #highaltitude.
[09:13] <domlin> if you get your 3G system delivered we could do some decent livestreaming possibly
[09:13] <DL7AD> my websdr failed now
[09:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hi chrisstubbsW
[09:15] <chrisstubbsW> Hi Lunar_LanderU
[09:16] <domlin> chrisstubbsW: when's your telekeneticpotato estimated to arrive?
[09:16] <domlin> and mine if the guy decides to send it?
[09:16] <enkidu> what do you think about using audio equalizer as bandpass between tuner and pc?
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[09:21] <mfa298> enkidu if it's a decent quality one if might help, although as dl-fldigi is only looking at a small portion of the audio spectrum you'de need a decent number of channels to give any real benefit.
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[09:22] <mfa298> if you're using a radio with suitable controls you'll probably do better to use that to limit the bandwidth your listening to - On stable transmissions I've reduced the filters to only show the bit of spectrum I'm interested in
[09:22] Nick change: kurti_ -> kurti
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[09:23] <HixWork> has anyone used AA SMT clips on PCBs for trackers? Thinking them and some tape would be a pretty secure compact solution, with less liklihood of bad connections
[09:23] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/tP1imX
[09:23] <enkidu> mfa298: I got pully parametric equalizer, that is able to select one frequency and remove others. It is rather for searching
[09:24] <gonzo_> fl digi will be digitising the whole spectrum, regardless of any pre filtering, and will be doing all the filtering in the SW. Adding narrow analogue filters coudl actually cause problems, with them ringing and corrupting the data
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[09:25] <enkidu> HixWork: I really think it would be better to use soldering. you could use batteries with soldering plates easily
[09:25] <gonzo_> external filters and dsp are great when using the human ear, not for data modes
[09:25] <enkidu> okay
[09:26] <LeoBodnar> Thanks G0TDJ_Steve for the image
[09:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> My pleasure LeoBodnar Let me know if you need anything else
[09:27] <mfa298> I think I've found the radio bandwidth filters have helped if there's strong noise to the sides of the signal but otherwise they've not done much. Same would probably be true with any other audio eq. it's not made any noticable difference with just white noise at the sides
[09:27] <HixWork> enkidu these are soldered - to the pcb
[09:27] <enkidu> SP3OSJ: have you found any signs of life from your balloon?
[09:27] <enkidu> HixWork: but I meant : solder battery pads
[09:28] <enkidu> http://www.tme.eu/pl/details/accu-bh-aaa/akumulatory/byd-company-limited/#
[09:28] <enkidu> for reference
[09:28] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: you have a thing about bandpass filters :D
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[09:29] <HixWork> ah, them, but then they still have to be secured to something, these seemed to be a good solution http://goo.gl/5rhw8C
[09:29] <LeoBodnar> I love analogue stuff, FIR IIR stuff is too easy :)
[09:30] <enkidu> yeah, I have ;) also, I gonna build one 3rd order bandpass for 434 but have to make sure I find capacitors for this project
[09:30] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: I have been trying to liste to it from Swedish web receiver all day yesterday
[09:30] <enkidu> and parasite capacity might be a problem
[09:30] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: I am afraid that it could be hit by rising plane
[09:31] <DL1SGP> damn airtraffic :)
[09:32] <LeoBodnar> HixWork: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/ they work but too heavy for me :)
[09:32] <DL1SGP> yeah we tried hard to get a sign of life of SP3OSJ Balloon, unfortunately no luck, ist still was fun!
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[09:33] <DL7AD> where can i find out, how fast the ballon moves?
[09:33] <enkidu> DL7AD: mobile tracker
[09:33] <DL7AD> thx
[09:34] <enkidu> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[09:36] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: some military grade lithium batteriec sould be used,
[09:37] <nats`> Please take not, that's a bad idea to look into the hot air station nozzle -_-
[09:38] <enkidu> even worse is trying to remove pcb drovned in solder pot by fingers
[09:39] <nats`> Uhhmmm yes bad idea too :)
[09:39] <HixWork> ah, cheers LeoBodnar just the ticket, I have no such dietary requirements :)
[09:40] <nats`> next time I put my hand under a IR rework station :)
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[09:42] <Bo_DK> morning
[09:43] <HixWork> hi Bo_DK
[09:44] <Bo_DK> its a good day to get some code-work done.... pissing down outside :-(
[09:44] <Bo_DK> thou i have to figure a BBB lib from adafruit
[09:45] <Bo_DK> its a lib for servos..its made for 180 degree ones...
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[09:45] <Bo_DK> i think my 360 degree 6 turn servo will just go 6 turns if i ask it to go180 degree
[09:46] <Bo_DK> next would be to source gears with 1:6 ratio
[09:46] <Bo_DK> and one of them big enough to be screwed to a sheet of mdf
[09:47] <Bo_DK> that i gave up on last night... ie finding the gears
[09:47] <Bo_DK> would love a 3D printer
[09:48] <HixWork> why not use steppers with gears on? great control and loadsa torque
[09:48] <SP3OSJ> so, my balloon (SP3OSJ) he's probably dead
[09:48] <HixWork> http://www.hpcgears.com/ could give you some ideas
[09:48] <Bo_DK> hehe.. i have asked myself until i saw a list of of pros and cons
[09:49] <Bo_DK> they only lack one thing.... they dont know where they point
[09:49] <Bo_DK> and servos have torque enough... given you dont by the smallest ones
[09:49] <Bo_DK> i go for the biggest and most powerfull
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[09:49] <Bo_DK> but will look at link anyway
[09:49] <PA1SDB> And one from me LeoBodnar, B-11 via WebSDR: http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb/B-11.jpg
[09:50] <SP3OSJ> 13-09-2013 at 17:00 GMT start a new - $$SP3OSJ,,,,,,,
[09:51] <mikestir-work> Bo_DK: you could use steppers in conjunction with limit switches or some sort of absolute encoder (or even just a pot)
[09:52] <nats`> B-11 flight is really impressive....
[09:52] <Bo_DK> mikestir-work: yeah... well board allready on the way
[09:52] <nats`> would be fun to find him in USA :D
[09:52] <Bo_DK> but lucky mee HPC makes custom gears if need be
[09:52] <HixWork> they are a great resource
[09:52] <HixWork> they probably already have what you need
[09:53] <Bo_DK> yeah... now i blame google for not giving me link :-P
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[09:53] <enkidu> http://ve2zaz.net/HighPass_Notch_Filter/2m_Yagi_70cm_Array.jpg
[09:55] <Bo_DK> oh... my servos turns 6 times and i need to gear down to 1... that is a ratio of 6:1 right?
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU> sad that the mission will come to an end soon :(
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU> when it runs out of receivers
[09:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> That is a big shame Lunar_LanderU
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> we'd need HAMs in Greece, Turkey
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[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> well yea, I doubt there are any people in the sahara
[09:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> We need a few Cubesats on the band
[09:58] <mikestir-work> anyone in the know: I take it the 95% helium from BOC is the right stuff?
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[09:58] <mikestir-work> apparently they have different purity ratings
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> should be OK
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> are there globaltuners in egypt?
[09:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nt to my knowledge
[10:00] <Nerdsville_> Perhaps needs a bit more publicity on the amateur radio feeds/news might get a few more receivers?
[10:00] <Maxell> I feel the need to get some vacation in Turkey. Pack lightweight. 70 cm yagi, HABamp, rtlsdr-dongle.
[10:00] <Maxell> Oh, and laptop ofc.
[10:00] <Lunar_LanderU> at least there is one in Greece
[10:01] <Lunar_LanderU> SV7 something
[10:01] <HixWork> YES Bo_DK
[10:01] <HixWork> oops sorry shouting again :/
[10:01] <Bo_DK> HixWork: thanks.. and no problem.... it got my attention...
[10:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> SV1IW
[10:01] <Laurenceb_> oh nice, more listeners
[10:01] <HixWork> i blame CAD. Again....
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: SP3OSJ you can get historical playback on http://www.flightradar24.com and see what exactly has been flying through the position balloon was at.
[10:02] <Bo_DK> HixWork: and thanks again for the link... have sent of an mail if they have what i need or can make it
[10:02] <HixWork> I assume the reason engineering drawings are in caps is that they are used on the shopfloor where it is loud, so they have to be heard
[10:03] <HixWork> no probs Bo_DK
[10:03] <Lunar_LanderU> G0TDJ_Steve: http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/204/
[10:03] <Lunar_LanderU> this one is also here
[10:03] <Lunar_LanderU> there
[10:03] <Bo_DK> yeah.... with a great SUCCESS as b11 we sure need more listners.... may my project help with that :-D i hope it does
[10:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's good. I hope it can Rx B11 - We'll try when in range
[10:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> B11 doing hourly log right now
[10:03] <Lunar_LanderU> and thessaloniki might just be in range
[10:04] <Maxell> Log incoming \0.
[10:05] <Bo_DK> i see a new requirement for my project... needs to fit a small suitcase
[10:05] <Lunar_LanderU> nice back to Slovenia
[10:05] <Lunar_LanderU> surely a malfunction
[10:05] <Maxell> lol
[10:05] <Lunar_LanderU> Slovakia, sorry
[10:05] <Maxell> Lunar_LanderU: no, this this is the log function
[10:05] <DL1SGP> yeah, it is not a bug, it is a feature
[10:05] <Lunar_LanderU> yea but did it really fly back to Slovakia in just an hour?
[10:05] <DL1SGP> that is what Microsoft keeps telling users on support line :)
[10:06] <Maxell> Evey 2 hours it repeates 16-ish old messages.
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[10:06] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[10:06] <Maxell> So missed messages have a chance to be heard
[10:06] <Maxell> see the top at B-11 near stockholm, very crude position
[10:07] <Maxell> thats why the log function is so freaking cool
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> Bo_DK: have you had a go at listening to B-12 or B-11 when they passed over Denmark?
[10:08] <Bo_DK> LeoBodnar: sorry no... still building my listning tracker thingy
[10:08] <Bo_DK> got the habamp thou... i need the ublox gps module so got the amp while at it
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: we need your help again :D
[10:09] <Bo_DK> PCB on its way... so about to assemble that when it gets here
[10:09] <Bo_DK> then i just need to figure if adafruits servo lib for BBB can be used as is
[10:10] <Bo_DK> if so my project can aim the yagi... next will be to decode on the BBB too
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[10:11] <Rebounder> Maxell: i live in sthlm but never had time to make proper arrangements
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> Maxell: ah thanks :)
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> so which is the real position now?
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> Rebounder: cool someone from Sweden!
[10:12] <Lunar_LanderU> Hej :)
[10:13] <Rebounder> Maxell: but should a couple of guys that could hel out. there's a resting balloonproject here i sthlm
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[10:13] <Bo_DK> Q: do we know persons in places where a tracker/listner could be nice? where the person at the place just dont have the equioment to help us?
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[10:15] <ike> hi guys
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> Rebounder: cool
[10:15] <ike> where is B-11 now?
[10:15] <Rebounder> Lunar_LanderU: yah, been watching you guys for a while and then suddenly the Bs headed for sweden.. hope to be better prepared next time...
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[10:15] <ike> in bulgaria or in slovakia?
[10:15] <kokey> yo
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> Rebounder: actually the balloon I did at Uni was called Örnen-II :)
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> due to S.A. Andrée
[10:15] <kokey> anyone have some details of the solar panel set on the picos?
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> Romania ike
[10:15] <DL1SGP> ike: Bulgaria
[10:15] <kokey> set=setup
[10:15] <Rebounder> Lunar_LanderU: cool :)
[10:15] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> We have someone in Ukraine!
[10:17] <eroomde> perhaps optimistic
[10:17] <DL7AD> could someone tidy up the map again?
[10:17] <Bo_DK> have some thought about my project... maybe it can be used in those places.... certainly have the potential for it
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> I have posted on Russian/Ukrainian forums
[10:17] <Laurenceb_> Ukraine should be in range of B-12 in a few hours
[10:17] <kokey> yeah it looks a bit like bad obscene tagging by a teenager
[10:17] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[10:18] <Lunar_LanderU> ROFL THE TRACK
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: have you seen the B-11 battery profile? It charged too quickly - either battery loses capacity or overnight conditions were benign
[10:18] <mikestir-work> if only they had gone west over denmark, then set up spacenear for a pink track and it could easily have got front page on b3ta
[10:18] <kokey> my gf spotted it first
[10:18] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if its the amount of sunlight
[10:19] <kokey> are there pictures of the payload anywhere?
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: i think this is why a current meter would be nice
[10:19] <x-f> Maxell, hi, was reading the backlog - what flight did you want me to import?
[10:19] <kokey> I'm well curious about what type of panels were used and how they were attached
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> if theres high altitude cloud it might effect the amount of sunlight
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/
[10:19] <kokey> LeoBodnar: thanks!
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[10:20] <LeoBodnar> I think battery was just warmer on the night than before
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> *in
[10:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[10:21] <Lunar_LanderU> Laurenceb_: so time for some METEOSAT?
[10:21] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[10:21] <kokey> oh, so just two pieces of PV glass pointing downwards?
[10:21] <kokey> or is it film?
[10:21] <LeoBodnar> Upwards kokey
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[10:22] <LeoBodnar> monocrystalline kokey
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[10:22] <kokey> interesting, that's some pretty good performance there
[10:22] <LeoBodnar> Yes, current sensor would not be out of place
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> PV likes cold
[10:24] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/09/musk_iron_man_video/
[10:24] <Laurenceb_> lolling
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[10:25] <Bo_DK> what about listning from top of this building: http://goo.gl/maps/mpZTF
[10:26] <HixWork> :D
[10:26] <Bo_DK> have asked about a few other places
[10:26] <Bo_DK> should be doable with my project as it will not need much space
[10:27] <Bo_DK> 1*1 meter with 360 degree free view
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[10:28] <Bo_DK> oh well... time to look at code
[10:29] <Bo_DK> ping me if any Q's or ideas
[10:30] <Bo_DK> this might also be a good place for me: http://goo.gl/maps/Czija
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[10:31] <Bo_DK> or this one: http://goo.gl/maps/67H0y
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[10:34] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15268_trj001.gif
[10:34] <Laurenceb_> B-12
[10:35] <Laurenceb_> express delivery to North Korea
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[10:35] Nick change: domlin_ -> domlin
[10:36] <Bo_DK> north korea.... hmm... shame we cant change the payload
[10:38] <enkidu> Ill build just tunable amplifier
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> 3 day prediction for both on the same map http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA-B11-B12.png
[10:38] <enkidu> rc circuit with two elements
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[10:39] <enkidu> china seems safe, at least they can have rtl sdrs ;)
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> 1650Km range for B-11
[10:47] <Bo_DK> enkidu: for N korea i had some more provokative n mind
[10:48] <Bo_DK> a BIG f-finger with their flag painted on
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[10:48] <Maxell> x-f: 73dd2859f5c2ad1acc8bc040facf7d14 and 11e6f53a69f97cbcffd061f501b60004
[10:48] <Maxell> Thanks!
[10:49] <Maxell> It's the "Hyperion/Habanero" and "HABANERO2" flights.
[10:50] <Laurenceb_> its 8th for amateur distance
[10:54] <ike> that is soo cool
[10:54] <ike> you can hear B-11 here http://websdr.yo3ggx.ro:8766/
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> B-12 seems to be travelling slower than predicted?
[10:55] <ike> $$B-11,6684,105439,42.5067,27.3121,8970,7,3,4.05,0.67*76ef
[10:55] <Laurenceb_> heh 6684
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> heh verily.
[10:56] Action: SpeedEvil waits for firefox to start responding again after loading the tracker.
[10:56] <ike> $$B-11,6685,105528,42.4956,27.3181,9005,7,3,4.05,0.67*810c
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> oh - it's just gone romanian.
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[10:57] <SpeedEvil> Bulgarian
[10:58] <DL7AD> nearly turkey
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> and heading for turkey
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Almost bang on course for istanbul
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> need a B-12 Rx on here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPYhznjLQmQ
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> this is about the course i rememer from a couple of days ago - skirting the black sea then heading for the caspian
[10:59] <HixWork> this right for B11? http://goo.gl/maps/sJKd2
[11:00] <DL7AD> yes
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh - is that reciever in ukraine new?
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[11:00] <HixWork> sweet
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[11:00] <SpeedEvil> That expands the network nicely!
[11:01] <DL7AD> could someone tidy up the map?
[11:01] <Laurenceb_> fsphil is the admin, and he's away
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> DL7AD: In general if you reload after it's stopped dumping - it goes clean again
[11:02] <DL1SGP> which date was B-11 launched on?
[11:02] <DL7AD> SpeedEvil: not at me
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> DL1SGP: the second
[11:02] <staylo> I guess with barely any receivers in range, even if it turns around at istanbul and heads straight back in a gentle arc it'll still look jagged on the tracker.
[11:02] <x-f> DL1SGP, 2013-09-01 16:50
[11:02] <staylo> That's good, cause I can't stand an oval.
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> DL7AD: oops :)
[11:02] <DL1SGP> tu x-f
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> staylo: D11 repeats old tracklogs
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[11:03] <ike> B 11 is right here http://goo.gl/maps/Ezd8m
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> staylo: D12 of course not so much - with its battery
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> D11 will only go jagged if it loses reception for more than 2 days
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[11:09] <x-f> Maxell, http://bit.ly/16emfpz and http://bit.ly/15darEn - you'll need to specify the actual flight time for HABANERO, because i group by payload docs, not flight docs, and you used the same payload doc for both flights
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[11:09] <fsphil> map cleaned up
[11:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers fsphil
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[11:17] <x-f> B-11 is speeding today, 99 km in the last hour
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[11:20] <x-f> 50 km for B-12 in the same time
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> B-11 is heading out of range now :-/
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[11:25] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[11:25] <Lunar_LanderU> no one that could be reached in Turkey?
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[11:27] <arko> x-f: cant believe i met you and didnt know it was you!
[11:28] <Bo_DK> Q: can someone look through some python code for me and see if i made any booboo's? its based on habrotate but i added control for servos... its just the theory behind it i would like a check on
[11:28] <DL1SGP> Lunar_LanderU: I just send a mail to TRAC
[11:29] <Lunar_LanderU> cool!
[11:29] <mattbrejza> where is LZ1DEV these days? (he wrote /mt)
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[11:30] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> "We are pleased to announce a new Aluminum clad FR4 1.5 mm thick single sided PCB Train service. "
[11:31] <Babs> ping eroomde
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[11:33] <arko> Babs: thank you so much for all the drinks :) I had a great time
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> when do you head back home arko?
[11:37] <DL7AD> reached turkey
[11:38] <arko> Next wednesday
[11:38] <arko> Plenty of time for drinks and fun
[11:38] <arko> Turkey will now declare war on Leo
[11:38] <DL1SGP> Welcome to Turkey dear B-11
[11:38] <gonzo_> they could not afford it
[11:39] <arko> LOL
[11:39] <nats`> don't go over egypt :p
[11:39] <arko> You get extra lulz because im armenian ;)
[11:39] <nats`> they don't like brds with tracking payload so a balloon :p
[11:40] <Babs> arko - no worries, good to have you over. at least it is raining now so you are getting the full UK experience.
[11:40] <x-f> arko, heh :)
[11:40] <DL1SGP> haha
[11:40] <Maxell> x-f: ah, it would be the latest: Created: 2013-02-28T21:12:31+01:00 Doc ID: 73dd2859f5c2ad1acc8bc040facdd078
[11:40] <arko> :) im loving this
[11:42] <gonzo_> if you can get a freeze, flood and a drought in the same week, then you will know UK wx
[11:43] <DL1SGP> +fog
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[11:48] <gonzo_> I read that as frog! Thought it was getting a bit biblical!
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[11:49] <arko> Achievement unlock: heard someone say cheerio
[11:51] <eroomde> Babs, pong
[11:51] <eroomde> for the next 2 mins
[11:51] <eroomde> then i'm going to grab some food
[11:52] <Babs> its a quick one, and i think i know the answer before asking, but i thought id ask before doing the hard maths
[11:52] <eroomde> go on
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> 165hour
[11:53] <Babs> lets say we are at a UK latitude and longitude, at ground level, call the polar co-ordinates x,y and z where x is lat, y is long and z = 0 (in this example)
[11:53] <x-f> Maxell, i can't split it, so they both appear on the same graph, you'll need to specify the actual flight time by yourself - 2013-03-02 10:30 / 2013-03-03 13:30 and 2013-06-30 9:30 / 2013-06-30 12:30
[11:53] <eroomde> uhuh
[11:53] <Babs> we then rise vertically for 10km
[11:53] <Babs> obviously z changes, y stays the same
[11:53] <Laurenceb_> 185hours even
[11:54] <Lunar_LanderU> hello arko
[11:54] <eroomde> yup
[11:54] <Babs> and then x will always stay the same if we stay in the same co-ordinate system
[11:54] <Babs> x only changes if for example we go to cartesian
[11:54] <HixWork> Arko - welcome to BST :D have you had a nice cup of tea yet?
[11:54] <arko> HixWork: hell no, i had a pint
[11:54] <eroomde> i think it probably has the same properties as y
[11:54] <arko> ;)
[11:54] <HixWork> A pint?!? fibber ;p
[11:55] <Babs> good. thanks.
[11:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK updates flight path for GE for B-11 and B-12 with gaps estimated from Hy-Split http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/
[11:55] <eroomde> it's sometimes helpful, for mall things, to approximate things as a Local Tangential Plane
[11:55] <Babs> just working out the advantages/disadvantages of swapping to cartesian to work out a bearing (very easy) before going back to conventional lat and long
[11:55] <eroomde> so just making a flat cartesian xyz system centered on some point on the earth
[11:56] <eroomde> swapping to cartesian/LTP is great for smallish stuff
[11:56] <eroomde> if you playpen is a few miles and you're not near the poles
[11:56] <Babs> error is 8 inches a mile doing it your way
[11:56] <eroomde> your*
[11:56] <eroomde> so for getting stats about the gps lock and distributions i use LTP
[11:56] <Babs> but obviously goes up exponentially as you go out to 100 miles between the balloon and the target spot i want it to point at
[11:57] <eroomde> yep
[11:57] <eroomde> for the gps stuff we basically do everything in ECEF
[11:57] <eroomde> and just translate to LLA for the user output
[11:57] <Babs> with ECEF my target point on the ground will effectively move over time I think
[11:57] <eroomde> (lat/lon/alt, sorry)
[11:58] <eroomde> if it's the moon's shadow then yeah i guess
[11:58] <Babs> so i dont known whether moving to ECEF just creates an added complexity that i dont need
[11:58] <Babs> no, not the moon shadow
[11:58] <Babs> just any static point on earth will move in an ECEF (i think) as the ECEF frame of reference moves with the earths rotation (ie it is fixed in the earth)
[11:59] <eroomde> ah no
[11:59] <eroomde> that's ECI - earth centered inertial
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[11:59] <eroomde> so earth centered inertial is the one that is fixed relative to the sun and space
[11:59] <eroomde> earth centred earth fixed is attached to the rock
[11:59] <Babs> ahh, so ECEF of (Greenwich) say, will be a fixed point cartesian set of co-ordinates that doesnt move over time?
[12:00] <eroomde> yes exactly
[12:00] <eroomde> z is the north pole, x is greenwich merdian
[12:00] <Babs> i'm going with that then.
[12:00] <Babs> trig. easy.
[12:00] <eroomde> :)
[12:00] Action: HixWork learnt something there
[12:00] <eroomde> right, lunch o'clock
[12:00] <Babs> thanks mate.
[12:00] <eroomde> back shortly
[12:00] <DL7AD> oO http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/1682_trj001.gif
[12:00] <Babs> i had a posh cheddar sandwich from pret. was optimal.
[12:01] <HixWork> is optimal >= acceptable?
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[12:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL7AD, Its quite interesting running some archive plots to see how the estimate compares with the actual :-(
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[12:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've been trying to fill in the B-12 missing nights using Hy-Split not sure its that successful!
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[12:05] <LeoBodnar> Cyprus must have some listeners surely?
[12:06] Action: DL1SGP has lost signal of B-11 via Bucharest WebSDR
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[12:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> The two Greece stations might have a chance ?
[12:06] <nats`> your balloon will be destroyed by a russian missile if going near syria :D
[12:07] <HixWork> oh wow! Chrome remote desktop plugin. WIN
[12:08] <Babs> optimal =~ acceptable, but is is raining and pret is underneath my office. my other nearest canteens are the salvation army and the UK Church of Scientology - pret is the answer.
[12:08] <nats`> oO
[12:09] <HixWork> hmm, see where you're coming from there Babs :D
[12:09] <Lunar_LanderU> for your amusement: http://s.gullipics.com/image/y/a/3/ji1rd83-kvbdlt-xlcz/RoutingFail.png
[12:09] <DL1SGP> After emitting "Rule Britannia" as final signal, the GT-Node to relay signal from Bucharest WebSDR has ceased transmission and will return if ever we find a signal again
[12:12] <HixWork> doesn't look too obscene Lunar_LanderU whats the 644 going to be doing over a 328?
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU> more memory
[12:12] <Laurenceb_> SV1IW might see something
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU> you could even use a 1284
[12:12] <HixWork> ah ok. are you doing som efun stuff with this tracker?
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU> well the problem is that the tracks won't fit anymore
[12:12] <HixWork> remember you can use vias to move tracke to underside
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU> yea it is supposed to be the future mainboard for all our balloon ops
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[12:13] <HixWork> you've got room. just use 0.3mm vias
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[12:14] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[12:17] <HixWork> hey Lunar_LanderU http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/nEMbyhw.jpg
[12:17] <enkidu> not a good day for reception. Even for radiosonde
[12:18] <domlin> jusin bieber :@
[12:18] <Lunar_LanderU> XD yay
[12:19] <enkidu> poor girl
[12:20] <DL1SGP> yeah if he refuses to pay he will get arrested on next visit :)
[12:20] <Ugi> Hi Guys - can anyone use 3.6 m3 of He by next weekend? I have a cyl' hired until 19th & it doesn't look like I can use it.
[12:21] <HixWork> can you not extend ugi?
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[12:21] <Ugi> Don't know - I could call and see. Good thought
[12:21] <DL1SGP> maybe with a bit of a hose going down into london tub... that would make many mickey voices :)
[12:22] <Ugi> Otherwise I have to design & build a dozen pico floaters in the next 10 days!
[12:22] <DL1SGP> heh
[12:23] <HixWork> you could cross to Dunkirk with it :D
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[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> HixWork: to come back to your question again
[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> why 644 and not 328
[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> MEMORY
[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[12:37] <HixWork> yeah
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[12:37] <HixWork> are you doing som ecomplex stuff? or just futureproofing
[12:37] <Lunar_LanderU> both
[12:38] <HixWork> cool
[12:38] <Lunar_LanderU> we might have some more sophisticated stuff coming up
[12:38] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[12:38] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
[12:38] <HixWork> do you have a planned launch? and a new straw?
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> Ugi you can pre-fill some picos, they can be carried in a car
[12:39] <Willdude123> Hi
[12:40] <ike> how long He can stay in pico balloon?
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[12:41] <Willdude123> Does anyone get it when they get really excited about Wi-Fi on a train, then they log into it, and have nothing to do?
[12:41] <Willdude123> I'm having that kinda feeling. Gotta go back to school soon. Can't think for the life of me what I should do in this short period of computer acess.
[12:41] <Willdude123> Might fly IFR from Lasham to Popham for the lulz
[12:42] <Willdude123> Actually cba
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[12:43] <Laurenceb_> ah nice SV9RHE looks in a good place
[12:43] <Willdude123> Nah. I'm going to listen to some Chris De Burgh music. And maybe order my PCBs
[12:43] <Willdude123> Actually I don't have time for that.
[12:43] <enkidu> I wish, that fldigi could decode SGP signal
[12:44] <Mik_WD8MNV> if beiber dosn't want his monkey, he should leave it at Ikea
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[12:45] <DL1SGP> the monkey then would have more and bigger balls than his owner :D
[12:46] <PE2G> enkidu: You don't have SondeMonitor?
[12:48] <enkidu> I got it, but its way of representing signal Quality is not what I like
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> This is the best I could come up with http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/3-day-prediction-B11-B12.png
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> Who gives the monkey?
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: :)
[12:51] <Willdude123> Right gotta go back to school.
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> have fun.
[12:51] <Willdude123> (I had counselling, I'm not dodging school
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[12:59] <Laurenceb_> hopefully it fixed his head
[13:01] <gonzo_> or a kick up the arse
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> lol gonzo_
[13:01] <PE2G> enkidu: If you like to follow French met-sondes: http://f5jtz.free.fr/js/espion.php
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> needing counselling is a common reaction to IRC exposure
[13:05] <enkidu> PE2G: actually I am looking formard to capture some data myself.
[13:05] <DL1SGP> enkidu
[13:05] <DL1SGP> let me look something up for you :)
[13:05] <enkidu> strange, that at night I could do it easily, while now I have only noise
[13:06] <PE2G> enkidu: Yes, I understand
[13:06] <eroomde> lunch is such a good idea
[13:06] <eroomde> i would say thank you to whoever invented it
[13:07] <enkidu> probably its righ time to think about scanner or good tuner
[13:07] <DrLuke> eroomde: i feel you ;(
[13:07] <DL1SGP> enkidu: there is a program called KG-RS (Japanese) I can upload it for you :)
[13:08] <PE2G> DL1SGP: Can it decode GPS positions?
[13:08] <enkidu> DL1SGP: I have "radiosonde" utility, but problem is, that I have to find signal using headphones first
[13:09] <DL1SGP> I do not remember quite well PE2G
[13:09] <DL1SGP> only used it for some debug purpose on a software project
[13:10] <PE2G> DL1SGP: I believe it doesn't
[13:10] <DL1SGP> it still would help enkidu greatly to get the signal in well
[13:10] <DL1SGP> cause it displays the phases quite well
[13:10] <DL1SGP> and it has the protocol documented
[13:11] <PE2G> DL1SGP: OK, i see. I just found the main site
[13:11] <PE2G> http://www2.plala.or.jp/hikokibiyori/soft/index.html
[13:12] <PE2G> http://www2.plala.or.jp/hikokibiyori/soft/kgrs/index.html
[13:12] <DL1SGP> indeed
[13:12] <DL1SGP> fine things up there if you do not mind the japanese :D
[13:12] <PE2G> Download: http://www2.plala.or.jp/hikokibiyori/soft/kgrs/kgrs.zip
[13:15] <junderwood_M0JCU> PE2G, did you see my PM?
[13:15] <HixWork> anyone got any methods to remote dekstop to a windows box when RDC seems to be blocked in the office?
[13:16] <PE2G> junderwood_M0JCU: For reasons unclear to me, I don't see it
[13:16] <mattbrejza> ssh blocked?
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[13:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> Odd. Maybe your client doesn't support it
[13:17] <PE2G> junderwood_M0JCU: Now I see it
[13:17] <junderwood_M0JCU> :)
[13:19] <HixWork> mattbrejza ssh is ok - i have my socks on ubuntu vm on the serve and connects no probs
[13:19] <mattbrejza> ive tunneled rdc over ssh before
[13:19] <fsphil> you could tunnel port 3389 for rdp
[13:19] <eroomde> if a listener tunrs up soon downrange of B11 it would be a Turkish Delight
[13:20] <HixWork> would i not need to set 3389 to forward on the router at home?
[13:20] <mattbrejza> its a bit weird though, the local ip/port cant be 127.0.0.1:3389, you have to use 127.254.254.xxx because the rdc client is weird
[13:20] <fsphil> you'd only need to ssh to a machine on your home lan
[13:22] <HixWork> ok. So i have ssh on the ubuntu VM at the mo. what would be my next step?
[13:22] <HixWork> i am connected to the vm currrently
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[13:23] <enkidu> by now we are secure on receivers count
[13:23] <fsphil> HixWork: right click on puttys icon (top left) and go to options
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[13:24] <fsphil> under ssh there's a bit called port forwarding (I think?)
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[13:24] <fsphil> there you can setup a port number (local) to a hostname:port (on your lan)
[13:24] <fsphil> connections to the local port number get forwarded
[13:25] <fsphil> if doing it from a windows box you might not be able to use 3389 for the local port
[13:25] <fsphil> I've used 8389 in the past
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[13:25] <fsphil> "Tunnels" under ssh settings
[13:26] <fsphil> not port forwarding
[13:26] <fsphil> http://www.cs.uu.nl/technical/services/ssh/putty/puttyfw.html
[13:26] <HixWork> cheers fsphil I'll give it a whirl, got the tunnels. cheers. Did you go to the photg exhibition y'day?
[13:26] <mattbrejza> in ssh->tunnels, enter source as 127.254.254.254:3389, and desitination as dest.ip:3389 then press add
[13:26] <fsphil> HixWork: did! not bad, though was hoping for a bit more for the price
[13:27] <iain_G4SGX> Wow, been away a while, B11 STILL going and off to Beirut. Amazing
[13:27] <HixWork> shame fsphil looked good
[13:27] <eroomde> daveake got to suadi arabia just in time
[13:27] <HixWork> dynamic mattbrejza
[13:28] <mattbrejza> default settings i think
[13:28] <iain_G4SGX> Hes not LZ4ZD?
[13:28] <fsphil> yea, for this you want local
[13:29] <fsphil> dynamic opens a socks proxy
[13:29] <iain_G4SGX> Ah no, just checked QRZ
[13:29] <fsphil> which is great for web browsing
[13:29] <fsphil> remote opens a port on the remote machine -- not found a use for that yet
[13:30] <eroomde> iain_G4SGX, http://www.qsl.net/lz4zd/site_index.html
[13:30] <eroomde> nope
[13:31] <mfa298> I think I may have used Remote once (although with the Linux ssh client so -R) although I can't remember why.
[13:31] <HixWork> so from there i would use localhost:3389 in the RDC login
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[13:32] <mfa298> localhost and the port you used in the local port setting
[13:32] <eroomde> is 123test in Libya someone here finding a globaltuner or might it be a genuine local?
[13:32] <fsphil> HixWork: yea. though you might need to use a different port
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[13:32] <mattbrejza> HixWork: it works on 3389 local
[13:32] <mattbrejza> i do it all the time
[13:32] <eroomde> i think these might be out first ukranian and russian listeners too
[13:32] <eroomde> our*
[13:32] <mattbrejza> however when i first tried it didnt like localhost:3389
[13:33] <mfa298> 3389 local work if you don't have rdp running on the local machine.
[13:33] <mattbrejza> hence i yse 127.254.254.254:3389
[13:33] <mfa298> otherwise you try connecting to the local machine
[13:33] <fsphil> or use a different local port
[13:33] <fsphil> the rdp client accelts the address:port format
[13:33] <fsphil> accepts*
[13:33] <LeoBodnar> Maybe B-11 battery charged faster because the Sun position in the sky is higher at lower latitudes? Or battery lost its capacity.
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[13:33] <mfa298> I've always used an alternative port.
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[13:34] <fsphil> that's an interesting idea LeoBodnar
[13:34] <fsphil> it is quite a bit further south
[13:35] <mfa298> I was wondering if B-11 had reset at some point as it looked like the log lines were for more recent positions (not positions for 5 days ago)
[13:35] <mattbrejza> HixWork: http://imgur.com/QEKw6Nq i use these all the time
[13:36] <fsphil> that's a cute way of doing it
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[13:37] <mattbrejza> just need to remember which one is which
[13:37] <mfa298> you could put entries in the hosts file with that method
[13:37] <mfa298> if you can remember where it's hidden
[13:38] <fsphil> yea hosts on windows is in a stupid place
[13:38] <mfa298> something like windows\system32\*\etc\hosts
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[13:38] <LeoBodnar> mfa298: do you have the log or at least the first entry? The first entry in the log after reset is not tied to even UTC hours so if you see something further away than 5 minutes from even hour then it would have reset.
[13:38] <fsphil> drivers/etc I think
[13:38] <HixWork> hmmm, "Your Computer could not connect to another console session on the remote computer because you already have a console session in progress"
[13:38] <mattbrejza> all this assumes that ssh on the remote box is set up to tunnel
[13:38] <gonzo_> would not think that the sun angle would chaneg with alt, not significantkly
[13:38] <LeoBodnar> Log loops back every 5 days 8 hours
[13:38] <gonzo_> reflections from the balloon?
[13:39] <eroomde> change with latitude though
[13:39] <eroomde> quite poss
[13:39] <eroomde> shorter days with higher sun
[13:39] <gonzo_> Ah, sorry I missread!
[13:39] <HixWork> erm. I think that ssh is tunneling to the VM and then I'm trying to access RDC on the serve hosting the VM
[13:39] <LeoBodnar> And rises faster
[13:40] <LeoBodnar> If SV9RHE is listening he is in the right place at the right time
[13:40] <HixWork> ahh. BINGO! thank you so much mattbrejza and fsphil :D
[13:41] <mattbrejza> np :)
[13:41] <fsphil> it's a really handy trick to have
[13:41] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: that was from looking at spacenear.us earlier where it looked like the log lines were positions were to poland rather than germany/france/italy which is where I'd have expected them
[13:41] <fsphil> the log does seem to be sending newer data than before
[13:42] <HixWork> damn. it connects but then pretty much everytime putty spite the dummy and falls over
[13:43] <fsphil> putty crashes?
[13:44] <mfa298> ah, reading 14:38 is the log more like an array where it's writing to something like total log counter % logsize, and the log print is just printing entries 0-28
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[13:44] <HixWork> fsphil "Network error: Software caused connection abort"
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[13:45] <mfa298> I was assuming as the log filled up it would push the old items off the bottom so we would start seeing the positions from 4-5 days ago
[13:45] <LeoBodnar> You might be right. Log posted here from last night should have filled up by 02:00 UTC last night. http://sp7pki.iq24.pl/default.asp?grupa=75798&temat=345705&nr_str=2
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[13:46] <LeoBodnar> It's a circular buffer but we are looking at 26 entries at a fixed point on it.
[13:47] <HixWork> just wondering, does ubuntu only allow 1 ssh connection? sure I can have 2 open
[13:47] <fsphil> HixWork: any mount
[13:47] <fsphil> amount*
[13:48] <HixWork> yeah, seems to be, but the RDP kills it everytime, strange
[13:48] <fsphil> did you try an alternative port number?
[13:48] <fsphil> the local rdp server might be causing you trouble
[13:48] <HixWork> local?
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> Is Romanian sdr set up temporarily or will stay for at least midnight? B-12 will pass close to it later tonight
[13:48] <HixWork> I used 127.254.254.254:3389
[13:48] <fsphil> "Source Port"
[13:48] <HixWork> as recommended by matt
[13:48] <mfa298> so B-11 is currently overwriting the lower entries in the log buffer but we're still looking at it starting at 0. I was assuming the pointer for starting the dump would move to follow the oldest entry
[13:49] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: seen SP3OSJ reception?
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> On Swedish Rx?
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> No, nothing all day, have been looking out for it
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> On Vidablick receiver on globaltuners
[13:51] <HixWork> just added a forwar from 127.254.254.254:3398 to the remote ip:3389 and it did the same thing, as coon as you log-in it falls over.
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[13:52] <domlin> :o
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> is SV1IW ere?
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> *here
[13:52] <HixWork> not according to the nick list Laurenceb
[13:53] <HixWork> ahh, that a SWE handle? sorry
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[13:59] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: no, not his balloon, but B11 from his location
[14:04] <Ugi> Anyone have any tips on applying for CAA permission? The page on the Wiki seems to have quite a few broken links and the form is very old (2005). I can't find anything on the CAA web site thou'
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[14:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/skytruth-the-bakken - wth
[14:09] <Mik_WD8MNV> what is the difference between the NEO 6 and the MAX 6 uBlox?
[14:10] <Babs> Ugi - If you go on the CAA website and search you will find the form. Alternatively, if you ring up the CAA and ask for the person who deals with met balloon releases and describe what you are looking to launch (description and weight), when and location (do not say Heathrow) he will point you in the direction of what you need to fill in.
[14:11] <HixWork> Mik_WD8MNV size - but there are varying different NEO and MAX specs
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[14:13] <Mik_WD8MNV> neo - 6M is cheap and available on eBay here
[14:14] <HixWork> Chrisstubbs has flown em with no truble afaik Mik_WD8MNV
[14:14] <Mik_WD8MNV> k... should work in a clock then : )
[14:15] <Ugi> Thanks Babs - I have been searching the CAA site and not found it, but I probably just overlooked it. Will try again.
[14:15] <HixWork> Ugi - http://ukhas.org.uk/general:restrictions_legality?s[]=caa there are two maps i linked to that give you an idea as to where airspace categories are, should help you choose a site
[14:15] <Ugi> HixWork: those are the links that ar broken.
[14:16] <Babs> Ugi - PM
[14:17] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/AwoXOB is what DM emailed me in Feb so it should be the latest
[14:18] <Piet0r> EPE2G ping
[14:19] <Ugi> Thanks HixWork - only Google didn't let me get at the link
[14:20] <Ugi> I think Babs is going to e-mail it to me anyway, so no issues.
[14:20] <Ugi> Thanks to all.
[14:20] <enkidu> so now I have noise virtually eliminated
[14:20] <PE2G> Piet0r: pong
[14:20] <enkidu> rtlsdr is so sensitive, it will receive FM stations even with its input shorted
[14:21] <Piet0r> @PE2G Zie je mijn prive-berichtje?
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[14:22] <enkidu> Ill need copper/silver paint
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[14:25] <HixWork> Ugi http://stratosvision.com/docs/CAALaunchForm.doc
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[14:26] <mikestir-work> Ugi: I believe we are likely to get a launch window for last week sept/first week october for a site near Oswestry that you might be able to piggy back on. Last I heard we were expecting confirmation from DM next week
[14:27] <mikestir-work> don't know if that's anywhere near you
[14:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> enkidu, Might be better to box it up in a metal case.
[14:29] <Ugi> mikestir-work: thanks very much for the offer but we are just east of London so I suspect it's not viable for us to get to you.
[14:29] <Ugi> HixWork: thanks for the form. I now have paper and online versions, so that's perfect! Cheers
[14:29] <mikestir-work> suppose you'd be better trying to get your own approval for that Cambridge site then
[14:30] <HixWork> http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=4&Itemid=11.html Got to section ENR6.1 and the 3rd and 4th links Chart of United Kingdom ATS Airspace Classifications - SFC-FL195
[14:30] <HixWork> Chart of United Kingdom ATS Airspace Classifications - FL195-FL245
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[14:30] <Ugi> mikestir-work: I hope to do a first launch from Cam' but I also think that sometime I might try to do one from my kid's school so I'm trying to work out how!
[14:30] <mikestir-work> we were aiming for somewhere further north, but too many airports
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[14:33] <HixWork> mikestir-work follow the link at 15:30 and download the pdfs - they will give you an idea of areas you are likely to get permission easier
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[14:33] Nick change: Gnea -> 31NAAKU0I
[14:34] <mikestir-work> while I am having a break from work. what does everyone use for live streaming launches?
[14:35] <mikestir-work> HixWork: thanks. The site we ended up going for was a CAA suggestion I think, but maybe we could get closer to home in the future
[14:35] <HixWork> http://stratosvision.com/docs/UK-ATS-AIRSPACE.pdf I'll update wiki in a bit
[14:35] <Ugi> thanks HixWork - we may be too close to Stanstead, but we'll see.
[14:36] <HixWork> nps, th emap will show you
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[14:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> mikestir-work, Try http://batc.tv/ for streaming
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F401-DISCO/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui1YcVs9LwlR2JelgmX1SF1iszpZ55Gw0IYNSw9DUj%2fkWWd2%2faY2W3UXxGfyeERL6A%3d
[14:39] <mikestir-work> Geoff-G8DHE: what about the source? an android solution would be nice. anyone doing that?
[14:39] <enkidu> Geoff-G8DHE: id have to make the case, while using paint will be faster way. Or I can use tin foil
[14:39] <mikestir-work> server is not such a problem - I have capacity I could use, or join BATC
[14:39] <mfa298> mikestir-work: I in general people have either used batc or ustream
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is already a stream for HAB work
[14:40] <mfa298> batc has the advantage of no adverts but might need a windows machine to stream from
[14:40] <mikestir-work> was the conf not being streamed from tablets?
[14:41] <mfa298> the tablet recording at the front (which I was doing) was just to try and provide a bettter quality to put up after the event.
[14:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> enkidu, Can you not buy an Eddystone/Hammond box ?
[14:41] <HixWork> Right I've updated the CAA page on the wiki with the airsapce maps and the newer 2009 .doc form.
[14:42] <mfa298> the actual stream was from the couple of video camereas in the room (and was managed by Noel down the front of the room)
[14:42] <Lunar_LanderU> next attempt at my crap board http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/r/2/ji1rd83-kvcknk-x0ou/WreckedBoard.png
[14:42] <mikestir-work> mfa298: right, and they were just pc based?
[14:42] <mikestir-work> was dave's chase car for ted just a laptop as well?
[14:43] <mfa298> I think it was a composite feed from various sources into a video mixer and then into a pc to actual send the stream
[14:43] <mfa298> I think when dave's done it for his launches it's just been a laptop using the ukhas stream
[14:44] <enkidu> Geoff-G8DHE: for what? :) for my use original case is best. I can change connector so it would be BNC or F type
[14:44] <mikestir-work> might see if I can cobble something together for using a phone. there are a couple of android apps but they tend to require an inbound connection, so LAN only
[14:44] <mikestir-work> at least one is open source though
[14:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> enkidu, OK I assme its just a two part plastic case, getting they metal based inks to stick can be a problem, and also ensuring good connection at the joins.
[14:47] <Maxell> x-f: ah, ok thanks. Yeah I already figured it :-)
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[14:47] <enkidu> Geoff-G8DHE: two pieces of copper foil with soldered springs (one to USB, one to antenna connector), then copper paint and insulation
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[14:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> enkidu, This is what I used http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/HABAMP_and_DONGLE/
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[14:50] <Bo_DK> spacenear-us + IE10 = *sigh*
[14:51] <enkidu> Geoff-G8DHE: both amp and dongle in one box? interferences?
[14:51] <enkidu> Bo_DK: spacenear-us + anything = *sigh*
[14:52] <enkidu> every refresh is killing my browser
[14:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> No, how would the pre-amp interfere ?
[14:52] <enkidu> loop?
[14:52] <Bo_DK> enkidu: was look for a flight that relly moves arround
[14:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope no problems
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[14:52] <enkidu> habamp is narrow band?
[14:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> 10Mhz filter
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[14:53] <enkidu> nice
[14:53] <Bo_DK> hmmm a listner in libyea.. and saudi arabia.....
[14:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> simple, don't always need to use pre-amp, hence reason for external link
[14:54] <Bo_DK> anyways.... is there a flight in europe that relly moves arround?
[14:54] <nats`> I saw the libya listener this morning, I'm not sure that's a real one
[14:54] <Bo_DK> nats`: still there... assuimng spacenear.us work
[14:54] <Bo_DK> right now its not....
[14:54] <nats`> maybe an error in gps coordiante
[14:54] <nats`> coordinate
[14:55] <Bo_DK> only b11 and b12
[14:55] <nats`> like the one in russia 37.52 37.52 :)
[14:55] <enkidu> Geoff-G8DHE: Id just use rotary switch, but for sure also metal pad between them
[14:55] <Bo_DK> refresh kills browser
[14:56] <enkidu> tinfoil is good too
[14:56] <nats`> Bo_DK I have a problem too with the script on the page since 2 days
[14:57] <nats`> firefox don't like it and try to stop the script every time
[14:57] <Bo_DK> IE 10 same
[14:57] <enkidu> id need also 400MHz preamp then
[14:57] <Bo_DK> prop same with chrrome
[14:57] <x-f> i think i saw "123test" in Europe this morning
[14:57] <HixWork> PuTTy is still falling over on connection to the server. Strange, it is fine from any ohter machine. Surely the SSH tunnel prevents any work firewall interaction?
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> I wanted to keep the wide bandwidth of the RTL device so no cheap rotary switch is going to do that you would need a propoer RF switch rated to 2GHz!
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> drill three/four holes, file one slot keeps it very simple!
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> need to keep ventilation/cooling to dongle board otherwise drifts with temperature.
[14:58] <Bo_DK> are there ANY of the flights in europe that moves round a lot?
[14:58] <Bo_DK> so i can pick in habrotate
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> the rtl820 are very prone to this much worse than the rtl2832u
[14:58] <enkidu> Geoff-G8DHE: silicon pads to this case
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[15:04] <nats`> Geoff-G8DHE Personnally I put the raw dongle in a fan cooled casing with filtered 5V and with a 1m usb cord
[15:04] <nats`> I don't know if it changes many things since I didn't test the two setup
[15:04] <nats`> but I though adding a little heatsink on the chip
[15:05] <mfa298> nats`, Bo_DK: IE10 is known to not work with sn.us, other browsers will take a while to load as there's a lot of data for them to load in (was 42,000 points of data when I looked earlier), you just need to leave FF / Chrome to load all the data and then the path will appear
[15:05] <Bo_DK> mfa298: nothing works right now
[15:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> The ones I use seem happy if just left running, either in the original plastic case or boxed, only drift that appears is chip heating for 30 seconds to a minute or two on power up.
[15:06] <Bo_DK> mfa298: enkidu also have trouble
[15:06] <Ugi> FF is just not even trying today for me - no script errors, just no balloons
[15:06] <enkidu> mfa298: maybe its best to use non-blocking approach?
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[15:07] <Nerdsville_> I can open this in firefox with no problem http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> taking about 30 seconds to load in FF here at present
[15:08] <Bo_DK> Nerdsville_: not that one... space-near.us
[15:09] <Bo_DK> but thanks... better working at least
[15:10] <Nerdsville_> Bo_DK, sorry came in halfway through yes sn.us on FF here has been patchy, once loaded it seems fine. If the script stops on loading I just keep clicking continue till it loads
[15:10] <Bo_DK> Nerdsville_: just a shame the site dictates what browser to use
[15:10] <Bo_DK> should work with them all
[15:10] <Nerdsville_> mind you FF is just a huge amount of memory (but what's new!)
[15:10] <nats`> Bo_DK... are you kidding ? :D
[15:11] <nats`> working with all browser is a nightmare
[15:11] <nats`> :p
[15:11] <nats`> FF and Chrome are generally correct
[15:11] Nick change: yo5pjb -> yo5pjb_afk
[15:11] <Bo_DK> i have sticked to ie.... only due to not willing to have 3-4 installed
[15:11] <mfa298> 42,000 data points is a lot of data for any browser to load so going to sn.us with any browser will be slow, you just need to be patient with it and tell it to continue (if you stop the slow running script you won't get any data)
[15:11] <Bo_DK> mfa298: ok.. will do that
[15:12] <Bo_DK> 2 hours dinner should help it along
[15:12] <mfa298> ie generally has been pretty poor at following any standards so if you want a modern browser get something else.
[15:13] Nick change: 31NAAKU0I -> Gnea
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[15:14] <mikestir-work> mfa298: would be nice to ajax the data in in batches, starting with the most recent
[15:14] <Nerdsville_> To be honest Leo's crazy brilliant flight is pushing the boundaries in so many ways not surprising things are choking a little
[15:14] Action: DL1SGP likes crazy stuff
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[15:18] <HixWork> grrr
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> qwebirc ftw
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> free to use my web client if you need HixWork
[15:20] <HixWork> not IRC thats the problem dude its RDP over ssh
[15:21] <Bo_DK> Nerdsville_: when i get going i will try something more insane... round the globe...
[15:21] <x-f> trying to display 47k datapoints is one thing, browser also has to download 17.8 MB (!) of data at first, which simply takes some time too
[15:21] <Bo_DK> still need to apply for launch permit
[15:22] <Bo_DK> thats an 100-150£ thing
[15:22] <Nerdsville_> In FF when the first script warning box comes up I ticked the box to not prompt again and then clicked continue.. now loads everytime just takes a while
[15:22] <x-f> gzip'ing it on server's side would be an idea
[15:23] <ed___> yes ^
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> by the time you had unzipped it and plotted it all on the map, you might only be a second or two ahead
[15:23] <ed___> also sorry i didn't get round to saying hi properly x-f
[15:23] <ed___> (it's eroomde)
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> suppose the data might compress quite well though
[15:23] <ed___> but hi. and the plotting tool is awesome
[15:24] <Nerdsville_> Bo_DK that would be cool, circumnavigation (spelling?) mind you Leo is having a good attempt ;-)
[15:24] <x-f> hi :)
[15:25] <Bo_DK> Nerdsville_: do all tricks count?
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[15:25] <mfa298> adding gzip is potentially just an option in the webserver to compress the data and it will be uncompressed by the browser so nothing hard to change.
[15:26] <mattbrejza> have you looked at data.php? the potential to decrease its size is obvious
[15:26] <mattbrejza> http://spacenear.us/tracker/data.php
[15:27] <mattbrejza> each listener has the telemetry repeated for them
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[15:29] <mfa298> would probably be better to just send the points on the track and ajax the callsign list when someone clicks a point on the map.
[15:29] <mikestir-work> hmm yes it gzips to 962K as well
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[15:33] <mfa298> looking at the wireshark of loading data.php it looks like it's gzipped anyway from the server (at least loading it direct in FF)
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: i was thinking of running some experiments on F4Discovery
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> theres a second PLL on the F4, and if DMA is used to set the divisor, it might be feasible to do fractional-N
[15:34] <steve_____> Hi mattbrejza - I just looked at your wiki update; why are you considering a new binary protocol?
[15:34] Nick change: Nerdsville_ -> Nerdsville_AFK
[15:35] <LeoBodnar> It will be too noisy Laurenceb_ but will probably still work
[15:35] <Laurenceb_> the actual PLL noise isnt too bad
[15:35] <mattbrejza> steve_____: because progress
[15:35] <mfa298> entire conversation in wireshark for data.php is listed as ~1.2MBytes
[15:35] <Laurenceb_> if the spurs are far away...
[15:35] <LeoBodnar> Just need to stay at 9300 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/1282_trj001.gif
[15:35] <mattbrejza> get more data through
[15:36] <steve_____> mattbrejza: progress is good - it would be helpful as a reader to understand the why
[15:36] <steve_____> :)
[15:36] <Laurenceb_> hahaha
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Oh! Canada!
[15:36] <mattbrejza> well yea, i was just putting some thoughts to paper
[15:36] <mattbrejza> hvnt finished yet
[15:36] <LeoBodnar> Why not external PLL chip?
[15:37] <LeoBodnar> Because it would be cool to have CPU be a PA
[15:37] <steve_____> I can imagine after hearing your talk on Sat, you already have the protocol sorted :)
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[15:38] <Laurenceb_> for awesomeness thats all
[15:38] <mattbrejza> well its been mentioned on a regular basis so i just decided to make a start
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> the F401 is in 40QFN and runs at 1.8v
[15:38] <steve_____> I was wondering why we need to be more efficient in transmitting telemetry
[15:38] <steve_____> it doesn't seem like there is a need
[15:38] <arko> LeoBodnar: lets home is goes to los angeles
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> arg
[15:38] <arko> it*
[15:38] <steve_____> I can understand data
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> http://blog.mark-stevens.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/STClockConfigurationToolExpertMode.jpg
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> *brain explode*
[15:39] <mattbrejza> there is a lot more detail to be seen on a hab flight path if you have the resolution
[15:39] <steve_____> more resolution than every couple of seconds?
[15:39] <mattbrejza> you should be able to see the payload swing
[15:40] <mattbrejza> and then theres the times it goes between two wind layers and it dances around for a bit
[15:40] <steve_____> is the gps accurate enough
[15:40] <mattbrejza> should be
[15:40] <mattbrejza> also if you sleep every 5mins and want to be transmitting for as short a time as possible to save power
[15:41] <mattbrejza> or sending ssdv for most of the time and still want telemetry
[15:41] <ed___> gps should be accurate enough to see payload swing
[15:41] <LeoBodnar> Steps seems massive
[15:41] <iain_G4SGX> Hi Y'all. I reminded the RSGB VHF guy by email.. He said 'As a result of informal contacts and discussion with Ofcom the RSGB will include the aspect of Aeronautical Amateur Operation in its input to Ofcom as part of the license review. However do not expect things to change in a hurry, any proposal to Ofcom will be forwarded to the CAA who are unlikely to be receptive. I therefore expect a lengthy set of exchanges where the RSGB will n
[15:41] <iain_G4SGX> eed to do a lot of lobbying.'
[15:41] <mfa298> might need to get the sn.us client side processing sorted before having flights with 10hz updates though!
[15:42] <ed___> well, that's still a move in the right direction iain_G4SGX
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: yeah about 26kHz/step on F4
[15:42] <ed___> who is the rsgb vhf guy anyhoo?
[15:42] <mfa298> iain_G4SGX: that sounds like progress (even if it's at a glacial speed)
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> this is silly but epic haxorish
[15:42] <mattbrejza> yea but the reciever needs writing as well, so itll be a while before a binary protocol
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> even more epic if the dipole was directly driven from the stm32 MCO2 pin
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[15:43] <steve_____> my gps readings are not even always in my backyard - I must be doing something wrong...
[15:44] <iain_G4SGX> IHe's the RSFB VHF manager. (New one)
[15:44] <iain_G4SGX> *RSGB
[15:44] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: I need to try this on dsPIC, it all depends how good and clean PLL is.
[15:44] <mattbrejza> so probably a bit early to put together a 5W IQ transmitter on 144?
[15:44] <steve_____> mattbrejza: you're not considering the suggestion of only sending the delta telemetry, just the transmission?
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah - the stm32 pll jitter seems ok
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[15:45] <Laurenceb_> ironically its only just good enough for ethernet
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> the revision A silicone has ethernet issues
[15:45] <LeoBodnar> What are the value ranges for PLL_N PLL_M and what VCO limits it should stay within?
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> but for shortwave it seems ok
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> the VCO runs at ~200 to 500MHz
[15:45] <mattbrejza> steve_____: my suggestion would support a single gps position and mutliple ones via deltas ( i might not have made it clear on the page though)
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[15:45] <Laurenceb_> N is 9 bits
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> so you step by one part in 512 or so
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> What is PLL_M range?
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> you can divide with two dividers to get the MCO2 out at ~13.5MHz
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[15:46] <Laurenceb_> 1 to 8
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> then there is a 1 to 5 divider following it
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> - on the output
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> something like that...
[15:47] <steve_____> mattbrejza: I would like to help if I can, is there anything you want to farm out?
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/CD00171190.pdf
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: VCO range 192..432 is this right?
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> ah yeah thats it
[15:48] <mattbrejza> well atm its just coming up with ideas rathe rthan implementing anything
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> ultimate payload : just an F401 transmitting a PRN sequence on 13MHz :P
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> oops that was f1 series
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[15:50] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/DM00031020.pdf
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> pages 114 and 179
[15:50] <steve_____> has anyone considered compression or removal of unneeded data - not sure on the power saving ability..
[15:51] <steve_____> I guess your idea is to use binary to remove any ASCII bloat
[15:51] <mattbrejza> it has been thought of, nothing more than that though
[15:52] <steve_____> a limited character set may be useful
[15:53] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza, you were saying about only integrating it into ians SDR program. would that not be a problem for people with normal ham radios?
[15:53] <LeoBodnar> You can get much better resolution by finding combinations of different PLL settings. Run all allowed permutations of all possible values, delete illegal combinations (e.g. VCO out of range) and sort by output frequency. You'll get much tighter stepping than by altering just multiplier.
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> if you ran 16bit DMA to RCC_PLLI2SCFGR...
[15:53] <LeoBodnar> That's what I do when I need to squeeze the last bit of resolution out of PLL
[15:54] <mattbrejza> can always add audio to that program
[15:54] <mattbrejza> also it was mike not ian
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes sorry
[15:54] <LeoBodnar> Often silly manufacturers calculation programs can't do this because it is not reversible operation
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> I.e. you can't come up with a formula to derive PLL parameters from requested freq. Only exhaustive search can find the best match
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[15:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:55] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: B-11 and B-12 Pico Balloons Break World Duration Record http://t.co/mRlcsNZJc3 #amsat #hamr #ukhas #hab #amateurradio
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> i had this issue generating OFDM with PWM
[15:56] yo5pjb (598973af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.137.115.175) joined #highaltitude.
[15:56] <DL7AD> i would count on SV9RHE ;)
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> going to have to experiment with F4 discovery
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> ditto dsPIC33
[15:57] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: Amateur Radio Foundation Exam Success at UKHAS Conference http://t.co/7K3UuSnGgF #amsat #hamr #ukhas #hab
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[16:06] <Laurenceb_> oh wow
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> Eastern russia listeners
[16:06] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> well - Volgograd
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YhrKMBrJ2g
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[16:10] <HixWork> Libya and Saudi - really?
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> More like spectrum indicator due to SDR intermod and overload propensity
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[16:13] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[16:13] <Laurenceb_> http://www.qsl.net/lz4zd/site_index.html
[16:13] <Laurenceb_> this guy isnt from Saudi
[16:13] <iain_G4SGX> Leobodnar; I'm just starting to look at the Si4031 & TXCO for RTTY Tx, just checking the datasheet, any advice on its implementation programming wise beore I start? I assume frequency hopping a carrier is the way to go..
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> Ukraine is HUGGEEEE
[16:15] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[16:15] <yo5pjb> Does anyone have an estimation for B12 ? where sould be now ?
[16:15] <Serge> Hello ballon hrd in Ukraine at 1415utc
[16:15] <yo5pjb> Serge: exactly where in Ucraine ?
[16:16] <Serge> info here: http://forum.vhfdx.ru/sputniki/a-omo-eme-teemet-ooo-aa/msg166608/#msg166608
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> Yes iain_G4SGX i think it is used in one of the Hope RF modules if you want to sneak peak at the code
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[16:16] <Serge> if someone can add it to track map?
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> I found it very simple really
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> $$B-12,534,141054,50.596,26.7063,9363,5,-5,4.1,0.58*cf57 $$B-12,537,141255,50.5825,26.7187,9362,5,-1,4.07,0.6*0b1d $$B-12,538,141333,50.5782,26.7228,9357,6,-1,4.11,0.59*8cc2 $$B-12,539,141413,50.5737,26.7272,9354,6,1,4.08,0.59*6ffe $$B-12,540,141454,50.569,26.7318,9350,5,1,4.11,0.65*61cf $$B-12,541,141534,50.5645,26.7364,9352,5,0,4.08,0.58*6866 $$B-12,542,141615,50.5598,26.7412,9355,5,0,4.11,0.61
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> Any chance of manual import ?
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[16:18] <Nerdsville_AFK> \quit going home
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[16:19] <LeoBodnar> UpuWork: could you please import manually $$B-12,542,141615,50.5598,26.7412,9355,5,0,4.11,0.61*bf41 please credit UR3CTB - it's important to give them a thumbs up
[16:20] <DL1SGP> THUMBS UP for our dear listeners in Ukraine!
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[16:20] <steve_____> mattbrejza: having read your page again I can see you are already well ahead in your thoughts - as I say if there is anything you want to farm out - tests, code or other implementation details let me know
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[16:21] <Serge> no problem, we tried to attach more hams, but its working day here
[16:22] <iain_G4SGX> LeoBodnar; Cool, just looking at their module datasheets now, they got a few
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> Pity it will stop TXing at sunset
[16:22] <steve_____> I wonder if there is not already standards for this sort of data that are reusable
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> SV9RHE should get B-11 soon
[16:22] <chrisstubbs> I can decode it from the YT vid using stereo mix
[16:23] <chrisstubbs> can upload from that callsign if you want?
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> haha magic
[16:23] <Serge> upload from UR3CTB in KN59RS loc
[16:23] <chrisstubbs> Will do :)
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> have you got the lat/long for the rx location?
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> roughly
[16:24] <mattbrejza> steve_____: no implementation for a while ;)
[16:25] <steve_____> mattbrejza: what about some sort of serialisation of a data structure
[16:25] <steve_____> then the implementation is rather straight forward
[16:26] <mattbrejza> one thing that does need looking at is how to arrange things like sync sequences, how to minise the chance of the decoder misframing and stuff like that
[16:26] <steve_____> not such an intellectual exercise though but portable.
[16:26] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: 7.323302,19.753418
[16:26] <LeoBodnar> IGNORE THAT chrisstubbs
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[16:26] <chrisstubbs> okay
[16:26] <LeoBodnar> lol wrong country
[16:27] <chrisstubbs> haah
[16:27] <mattbrejza> at the moment its just looking into possible formats
[16:27] <steve_____> ok - will take a look and let you know if I can be of help
[16:27] <Serge> long: 49.77 E, LAT: 31.45 N
[16:28] <enkidu> mattbrejza: some FEC ?
[16:28] <mattbrejza> of course :P
[16:28] <AF7U> Why isn't the time in utc?
[16:29] <enkidu> AF7U: why isnt the time unix timestamp?
[16:29] <Serge> sorry swap LONG and LAT, my mistake
[16:29] <AF7U> Has the time zone changed? it used to be...
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> B-12 updated on the map
[16:30] <AF7U> It seemed to me the reported time a few days ago was in GMT format
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[16:31] <AF7U> It't abt Noon 4:40 UTC, but the craft reports abt Noon...
[16:31] <PE2G> Serge: You are UR3CTB ?
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[16:32] <Serge> not, mycall uz2hz
[16:32] number10 (519a08fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.8.252) joined #highaltitude.
[16:32] <Serge> i asked ur3cdtb to record video
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> Welcome Serge !
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> And thanks for quick response!
[16:33] <Serge> Leo> ok!
[16:33] <AF7U> Okay, no help here.... 73
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[16:33] <Laurenceb_> sunset soon at B-12
[16:34] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[16:34] <PE2G> Serge: Thank you for the link to the loggings
[16:36] <Serge> there in Ukraine few UHF hams with SSB radios, mostly is FM rigs...
[16:36] <PE2G> Serge: OK. Do you receive signals from B-12 ?
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[16:37] <Serge> still nothing here
[16:37] <Serge> but ur3ctb have some sounds
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[16:38] <chrisstubbs> Serge, can you get him set up with dl-fldigi to decode the data and upload it?
[16:38] <Serge> he is 100km western from me
[16:38] <chrisstubbs> Ah right okay
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> well if ghe gets more recordins of the audio I can try to decode them from here
[16:39] <Serge> if he making records i will say here
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[16:39] <LeoBodnar> Cool
[16:40] <steve_____> mattbrejza: have you seen https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/
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[16:42] <number10> thats great to see listeners in so many new countries
[16:43] <DL7AD> hm..... does anybody know, if there is anyone listening for b-11 in turkey?
[16:43] <steve_____> or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Thrift
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[16:46] <PE2G> DL7AD: I've sent an email to TA4A early this morning, but no reply yet
[16:46] <LeoBodnar> B-11 should near Crete at the moment
[16:46] <LeoBodnar> *be
[16:47] <DL7AD> yes i have sent also 5 or 6 mails to different persons
[16:47] <DL7AD> also no reply yet
[16:47] <YO3KSR> wee lost B-11
[16:48] <LeoBodnar> We will probably find it again :D
[16:48] <DL1SGP> yes but the sdr in bucharest did a great job YO3KSR
[16:48] <YO3KSR> thanks
[16:49] <YO3KSR> i'm waiting for b-12 but... is not moving
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[16:52] <DL1SGP> ah we will see if you get to hear it before it goes to sleep for the night
[16:54] <enkidu> YO3KSR: even, if you lose it now, try capturing it about 7:20utc in the morning
[16:54] <YO3KSR> here at the club the ts-2000 is 20/7 open
[16:54] <YO3KSR> and is on rx for b-12 :)
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[16:57] <DL1SGP> welcome back Lunar_Lander
[16:58] <Serge> last info from ur3ctb: he hear weak signals at 16:00 utc, but no records and he gone QRT.
[16:59] <DL1SGP> thanks Serge
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:00] <PE2G> B-11: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13057_trj001.gif
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[17:01] <LeoBodnar> 24 hour predictions from last known points: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/B-11-prediction-24h.png http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/B-12-prediction-24h.png
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> Oh, they are different PE2G hmmm
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> I have used the time of the last position
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> uu4jlm might see B-12
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[17:03] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: OK, disregard mine then
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> B-11 should be coming into range of Crete atm
[17:03] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: actually hunting for B-12 was more fun due to its restarts
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[17:03] <Hix> ping eroomde
[17:04] <PE2G> DL7AD: Was Crete on your mailing list?
[17:04] <DL7AD> no whole greece
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[17:05] <DL7AD> but..... how likely is it, that b-11 could be received by cyprus?
[17:06] <PE2G> DL7AD: Look at the Hysplit above
[17:06] <LeoBodnar> Very likely DL7AD
[17:06] <DL1SGP> yea
[17:06] <DL7AD> and what about this? http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12897_trj001.gif
[17:07] <LeoBodnar> It looks like it is coming back to med in a few days
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> really?
[17:08] <PE2G> DL7AD: Looking just in range of Crete to me
[17:08] <DL7AD> yes question: which diagramm can we trust?
[17:08] <DL7AD> i dont know
[17:08] <DL1SGP> none
[17:08] <DL1SGP> :)
[17:08] <DL7AD> i tried to contact someone in antalya via echolink. no response
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> B-12 would have stopped transmitting now due to sunset
[17:09] <DL7AD> i think the turkish have been extinct
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> lol
[17:10] <DL7AD> really?
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> Sunbathing who can blame them :D
[17:10] <DL7AD> because of power?
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> Yes DL7AD
[17:10] <DL7AD> so early?
[17:10] <DL1SGP> I also sent an email to the QSL Manager of TRAC who is in Izmir, and contacted somebody in Antalya area via email as well
[17:10] <PE2G> Did B-12 stop immediately at sunset? I've forgotten.
[17:11] <LeoBodnar> It's 2 hours local time difference with you DL7AD
[17:11] <LeoBodnar> Yes PE2G
[17:11] <Hix> daveake_: you about?
[17:11] <Hix> or Upu
[17:11] <DL1SGP> time for dinner bbiab
[17:11] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar but it had 4.11 V on battery
[17:11] <Hix> Here is that link for the poly files: http://download.geofabrik.de/europe.html
[17:12] <Hix> choose the country and you can select the poly file. Example UK - http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain.poly
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[17:14] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: The LiPo in B-12 is as good a battery as a dead parrot. It serves as capacitor at most at the moment. Which is still good because when it fails to hold any charge it won't work during the daytime at all.
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[17:16] <enkidu> LeoBodnar, when will be next launch?
[17:16] <Hix> what kind of lipo did you use leo?
[17:16] <daveake> Hix
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[17:17] <Hix> hi daveake
[17:17] <daveake> sorry was up at the restaurant
[17:17] <Hix> links above. Should be a case of extracting the numbers and adding them to the relevant array
[17:18] <Hix> daveake are you in Saudi?
[17:18] <daveake> ah cool
[17:18] <Hix> saves a load of work
[17:18] <daveake> yup
[17:18] <daveake> and no I didn't bring a radio :p
[17:18] <Hix> you can even get county level :D
[17:18] <daveake> haha
[17:18] <Hix> oh, there was a saudi tracker on spacenear
[17:19] <daveake> So Upu can use the Yorkshire prefix for his home launches
[17:19] <daveake> not me
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[17:19] <Hix> yes - and as Yorkshire is a foreign country he can use APRS there to boot ;p
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> we need SV9RHE
[17:19] <daveake> ha :)
[17:20] <daveake> then he can use ayoophigh.com
[17:20] <enkidu> which amateur balloon lasted longest in stratosphere?
[17:21] <Hix> heh
[17:21] <Hix> laurenceb_ http://sv9rhe.blogspot.co.uk/ any use to you?
[17:22] <Willdude123> I was having a relaxing evening, listening to bee gees, queen and meat loaf music and then I realize I have homework. :(
[17:23] <Hix> tbh I'd rather have the homework :)
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-APX1zJW11j0/UYwwJe5D2DI/AAAAAAAAA5g/PjLr8oWcI7s/s1600/Radio+Mobile+Online_20130504-021349.jpg
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> You took the word out my mouth Hix
[17:24] <Hix> XD
[17:25] <x-f> enkidu, CNSP-11 i think - http://www.cnsp-inc.com/cnsp-11/
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> "Lee Meadows of CNSP Payload Engineering developed the calculations that made it possible to achieve these float altitudes."
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> lolwut
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[17:28] <x-f> marketing
[17:29] <daveake> So this is what they mean by wireless internet ... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTvNixZCAAAK0kU.jpg:large
[17:29] <enkidu> Flight Duration 57 hours 02 minutes - amateur
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[17:31] <enkidu> I am asking for stratosphere, because thermal conditions there are probably most stable
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[17:31] <LeoBodnar> I'd credit BoyleMariotte
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[17:33] <enkidu> I know I know. pV = const. or pV=nRT
[17:34] eroomde_ (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] <enkidu> Ill think of solar balloons
[17:39] G3XVL_Chris (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.101.129.74) joined #highaltitude.
[17:43] <Willdude123> Hix: Wow, for the first time you aren't at work :)
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[17:45] <Willdude123> How can you not like the Bee Gees?
[17:45] <Willdude123> Or Meat Loaf?
[17:45] <Hix> fairly easily :)
[17:45] <Willdude123> or Queen?
[17:45] <Hix> I have aural function
[17:45] <eroomde_> http://ukamsat.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/attendees-at-the-ukhas-conference-2013-image-m0upu.jpg
[17:45] <Willdude123> So what music *do* you like?
[17:46] kpiman (5692d7df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.146.215.223) joined #highaltitude.
[17:46] <eroomde_> i am playing with the little hot-wheels toy of the mars rover that arko gave me
[17:46] <Hix> Massive variation, just not including any of those 3 options
[17:46] <Hix> ahh, wondered who's that was
[17:46] <Hix> oh, eroomde_ SW is good to go
[17:46] <eroomde_> awesome
[17:46] <eroomde_> will start it tonight
[17:46] <eroomde_> ty
[17:46] <Hix> nps
[17:46] <Hix> enjoy
[17:46] <Hix> if you need a hand shout
[17:47] <Hix> though I doubt you will :)
[17:47] <Hix> if you want Catia too lemme know
[17:47] <Hix> oh - i already linked didn't I
[17:47] <eroomde_> ProDesktop 2000i2 got me into cad
[17:47] <eroomde_> they gave it to schools for free back in 2001/20012
[17:48] <eroomde_> 2001/2002
[17:48] <Hix> I remember
[17:48] <eroomde_> i loved it
[17:48] <eroomde_> cad was like my painting
[17:48] <eroomde_> it got me hooked on engineering totally
[17:48] <kpiman> Are B-11 & B-12 likely to return to central europe?
[17:48] <Hix> it is cool - especially when you can get real stuff made from it
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[17:48] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[17:48] <Hix> babs has CNC lovelyness coming soon :D
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[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> good evening
[17:49] <LeoBodnar> kpiman: Not for the next few days
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> is there a globaltuners station in Libya?
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[17:51] <Willdude123> Evening ibanezmatt13
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> evening Will
[17:51] <Willdude123> Did you like the conference?
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[17:54] <enkidu> it is funny - over africa 300mbar layer is colder, than over Europe
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> I did Will yeah
[17:57] <eroomde_> was good to meet you in person
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, you too Ed
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just revising D1. Kruskal's, Prim's and Dijkstra's algorithms on networks. Pretty straight forward to be honest
[17:59] <eroomde_> i think i've forgotten most of those except Dijkstra's
[17:59] <Willdude123> Was anyone completely different to how you imagined them?
[17:59] <eroomde_> but algorithms for navigating through graphs are really cool
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> they are actually. I found it quite interesting calculating minimum spanning trees and stuff
[18:00] <eroomde_> there's one that's super useful in forward error correction called the Viterbi Algorithm
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Some yes
[18:00] <Willdude123> Obviously I'm a <insert expletive> in real life as well
[18:00] <eroomde_> as usual the wikipedia entry on the viterbi algorithm makes it look like you'd need a phd to understand it
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> It's the same for most of them. If you get good quality teaching, it all makes a lot of sense and it's really easy to apply
[18:01] <eroomde_> yeah indeed
[18:01] <mattbrejza> ahaha lolwut that wiki page
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[18:01] <eroomde_> that's basically what i keep hammering away about. nothing is really that hard usually, it's just about finding the right way of seeing it
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> in case you're interested eroomde_: http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-MD01-QP-JAN12.PDF
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> correct ^
[18:02] <eroomde_> although there was a lot of stuff in my gps talk, i hope at least it's persuaded people that it's not pure witchcraft
[18:02] <eroomde_> that it's actually a whole bunch of fairly simple concepts chained together
[18:02] <eroomde_> i'll have a look at the paper pares curry
[18:03] <eroomde_> going to curry up the arko
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[18:03] <eroomde_> apres*
[18:03] <eroomde_> having a go at writing these algorithms in python would be a really useful exercise too
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, didn't think of that
[18:04] <eroomde_> i.e., how to represent a graph in code and then how to solve it
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go
[18:04] <eroomde_> it would be a super good exercise.
[18:04] <kpiman> It would be good to have them back. Not knowing how long they lasted would be a let down.
[18:05] <eroomde_> hint: dictionaries are a really good data structure to help you construct graphs
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> I've heard of those
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> Same sort of things as tupules and lists, but not the same
[18:05] <eroomde_> they're super useful
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[18:05] <eroomde_> they're key/value stores
[18:06] <eroomde_> so there is a 'value' associated with a 'key'. key just means name
[18:06] <eroomde_> value is just an object
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> aah
[18:06] <eroomde_> so let's say you have a triangular graph, with 3 nodes: A, B and C
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[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[18:06] <eroomde_> you could say
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[18:07] <adamgreig> eroomde_: my prn radar worked. well.
[18:08] <eroomde_> adamgreig: awesome!
[18:08] <adamgreig> except I still can't see return pulses. but I'm suddenly not so convinced I'm not seeing return pulses only.
[18:08] <eroomde_> right
[18:08] <eroomde_> ibanezmatt13: http://pastebin.com/GsT4jd08
[18:08] <adamgreig> if I cover one tube with foil, the entire signal drops entirely
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[18:08] <adamgreig> which kind of suggests that actually none of the transmitted pulse is leaking through
[18:08] <eroomde_> so the 'key' in the first line is 'A' and the 'value' is a list saying what 'A' is connected to
[18:08] <eroomde_> you could query it by saying
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[18:09] <eroomde_> mygraph['A']
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[18:09] <eroomde_> and get back the list ['B', 'C']
[18:09] <eroomde_> so it's sort of like a list or an array except the entries in it have names
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> right, so I just need to modify that to hold the individual weights of the paths
[18:10] <adamgreig> eroomde_: quick demo video: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/mu77a0clozhyii3/dfnfbmZstR
[18:10] <eroomde_> so instead of some_list[45] returning the 45th element of some_list, instead you have some_dictionary[key] which returns whatever is after the colon in the 'key' entry on the some_dictionary
[18:10] <eroomde_> ibanezmatt13: yep
[18:10] <arko> adamgreig: in any condition have you been able to measure it without that second spike?
[18:10] <eroomde_> so you could have a tuple in the list
[18:10] <adamgreig> arko: uhm. kind of.
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> got it eroomde_, thanks
[18:11] <adamgreig> but not in any way that suggests the second spike was really a return pulse
[18:11] <eroomde_> 'A': [('B',13), ('C', 7)] say
[18:11] <arko> hm
[18:11] <eroomde_> which would be a weight of 13 between A and B and 7 between A and C, say
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[18:11] <adamgreig> what I really really need is the sample metadata stuff
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> that's a good way to do it
[18:11] <adamgreig> they've not implemented it on the fpga yet
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[18:11] <adamgreig> so there's currently no way of knowing how the TX buffers and RX buffers align
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[18:11] <adamgreig> if I got that, I could know exactly when the TX happened
[18:12] <eroomde_> ah yes i see
[18:12] <adamgreig> I was hoping there'd be enough leakage from tx to rx to be able to see the tx pulse
[18:12] <adamgreig> but it's not clear that that's the case
[18:12] <adamgreig> I could add an attenuated electrical path directly between the two
[18:12] <eroomde_> i wonder though
[18:12] <adamgreig> also the other big way of doing radar - pulses with linearly swept frequency/chirps
[18:13] <adamgreig> where you have a 0.1ms pulse that runs 0 to 10MHz modulated onto carrier
[18:13] <adamgreig> I just realised how you actually decode that
[18:13] <adamgreig> which is to modulate your received data at the same rate
[18:13] <eroomde_> yeah
[18:13] <arko> adamgreig: ed just told me what you are doing
[18:13] <LeoBodnar> Does Ofcom allow radars to use specific freq band or do you need to get a licence for this?
[18:13] <arko> freakin brilliant
[18:13] <adamgreig> so mix the baseband samples with an LO that is modulated the same as the TX
[18:13] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: I'm actually using my amateur license
[18:13] <adamgreig> and pulsing my callsign real quick right at the start
[18:14] <adamgreig> on 3.4GHz
[18:14] <eroomde_> right arko, it's curry time
[18:14] <adamgreig> and anyway once you mix the baseband rx samples with the LO taht's modulated
[18:14] <arko> woo!
[18:14] <adamgreig> your return pulse is right there
[18:14] <arko> curry
[18:14] <adamgreig> like a 600Hz signal
[18:14] <adamgreig> enjoy your curry!
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[18:14] <eroomde_> bbl
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> Oh, stick CQ there to be squeaky clean
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> :D
[18:14] <adamgreig> however I can't hope to modulate the rx signal without having precise timing between the two
[18:15] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: to be fair it's 6mW transmit power going out a highly directional antenna
[18:15] <adamgreig> inside my bedroom
[18:15] <adamgreig> on 3.4GHz
[18:15] <eroomde_> so if multiple replications fall within 1 chip width, you have problems
[18:15] <eroomde_> that's why multipath becomes a problem
[18:15] <adamgreig> yea
[18:15] <eroomde_> replications? er, reflections
[18:15] <adamgreig> and with 20MHz PRN rate
[18:15] <adamgreig> each bit is like 15m
[18:15] <eroomde_> yeah
[18:15] <eroomde_> indeed
[18:16] <eroomde_> you should be able to track to sort of 0.1 chip widths easely enough with a pll
[18:16] <adamgreig> so I think for long range radar - like boats or aeroplanes - prns and straight up pulsing might be fine
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> Can you use self-correlation to remove reflections?
[18:16] <adamgreig> eroomde_: yea but my samples are 40MHz so there's only two samples per chip width
[18:16] <eroomde_> indeed
[18:16] <adamgreig> but for short range radar like this, I think I really need that sweeping
[18:16] <adamgreig> with well coordinated tx+rx
[18:16] <eroomde_> though assuming static target the dithering can increase the resolution
[18:17] <adamgreig> they share the same clock at least so once I have the metadata it should work very well
[18:17] <adamgreig> yea
[18:17] <adamgreig> in theory that's true
[18:17] <eroomde_> dithering between one sample and the next
[18:17] <adamgreig> but I'm yet to work out how to actually increase _timing_ resolution
[18:17] <eroomde_> we observe this with our kalman tracker
[18:17] <adamgreig> because you still need a way to coordinate
[18:17] <eroomde_> yeah indeed
[18:17] <eroomde_> that's tricky
[18:17] <adamgreig> and I can't like, extract a time
[18:17] <adamgreig> because I'm not seeing any clear return pulses anyway
[18:17] <adamgreig> seem to either need much higher sample rates
[18:17] <adamgreig> or
[18:17] <adamgreig> that whole coordination thing
[18:17] <adamgreig> might be other ways to cheat it for now
[18:18] <adamgreig> having prns working at all is kinda fun though
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/09/lightweight_balloon_flight/
[18:18] <eroomde_> congrats on article Leo
[18:18] <eroomde_> right, DEF curry
[18:18] <adamgreig> yea stop talking about radar and go eat
[18:18] <adamgreig> seeya
[18:18] <eroomde_> byeeeeeeeeeee
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[18:19] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: haha I knew it will be exposed
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[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/5/k/5yv7i1-kvcum1-qn6g/StormdrifterIISMDCrapPCB.png
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> need more SV9RHE
[18:26] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Is there a ground plane under the track to the GPS antenna? If not it'll act like an antenna itself.
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[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> OK; at the moment there is none
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> YEs!
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> We need him a lot!
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[18:28] <LeoBodnar> I really dislike separate GND island under the GPS. Really really.
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> no contact for 4hours
[18:28] <LeoBodnar> Bends?
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, what do you recommend?
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> One ground plane for the whole board on both layers
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> And keep as much traces on the top layer as possible
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> It's disputable of course
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> GND on both layers?
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> No island
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> because this little joint between the two is where all power current is going to create a drop, especially at RF
[18:31] <adamgreig> yea, unless you really know what you're doing and thus know you need it, one single continuous ground plane is almost certainly the best choice
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> but I was always told to spare the GPS antenna area
[18:32] <LeoBodnar> So you have pretty much inserted an inductor into your GND line between the GPS and PSU
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
[18:32] <LeoBodnar> Of course, don't do GND plane near antenna.
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> and what about the extra GND for the SMA?
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> But this ground plane island under GPS itself, ask whoever suggested it what was the reasoning, then at least you know why it is there
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> All your return path currents from data lines are creating a voltage drop on GND line
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[18:35] <craag> Seperate ground islands doesn't make much sense to me when you're battery powered. Only when you've got 2 or more potentially noisy power sources.
[18:36] <LeoBodnar> Also pour the top layer with GND polygon and stitch it to the bottom in as many places as you can. Go wild on GND vias.
[18:36] <LeoBodnar> They make sense when you have separate analog and digital sections AND separate analog and digital power supplies.
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> so remove the planes I have now and fill up with GND on both sides?
[18:37] <LeoBodnar> This is my opinion of course.
[18:38] <craag> LeoBodnar: Yep, exactly.
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> I do it that way.
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> Collect opinions Lunar_Lander and form your own too :D
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> I think I'd do that but leave out the SMA
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> like I have it now
[18:39] <tweetBot> @thoughtstore: "B-11 and B-12 Pico Balloons Break World Duration Record" http://t.co/BSWRCrDH90 #ukhas #amsat #hamr
[18:39] <ike> LeoBodnar if you have module like this with integrated active antenna http://www.gtop-tech.com/Templates/pic/GPS_Modules_PA6B-01.jpg you should not have any GND under dot of the antenna
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> Ah I thought Lunar_Lander uses MAX-*
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> well yea
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> MAX-7
[18:42] <ike> I just pointed exception of common rule
[18:42] <LeoBodnar> With chip antennas don't even try to understand how they work, follow 100% the datasheet or appnote examples. Even 101%.
[18:43] <ike> too much GND near chip antenna and gnd issue http://hackaday.com/2013/09/05/fail-of-the-week-gps-module-design/
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> Oh, yes sure. With GHz stuff whatever datasheet says must be followed unless there is a clear understanding of why it should not be.
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder if a sarantel would be better
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[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> sv1iw, hello to greece
[18:44] <ike> from comments: I noticed one thing, the RF ground on the venus chip does nothing but connect the ground pins together on the RF side. There is no GND for the RF GND pins on the venus part. He could try jumpering to the LNA from the venus part as there is a ground pin on the venus part right next to a grnd pin on the LNA. It won’t be a good as a proper RF ground, but it will be a ground and might get things working. (When they sa
[18:44] <ike> y don’t connect GND to RFGND it doesn’t mean total isolation. What you want to do is have the two GND planes connect in a single point (50 mils is a good starting point) . You also want the power supplying the RF components flowing in over this point on an adjacent layer.)
[18:44] <sv1iw> Hi there
[18:45] <ike> RF is black magic
[18:45] <DL1SGP> Hello sv1iw
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> Hi sv1iw
[18:46] <fsphil> it's *good* black magic :)
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[18:46] <sv1iw> Hello everyone. nice to join...
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[18:47] <DL1SGP> Dr OM Manos, by chance do you know anyone on Cyprus and/or Crete that could have a listen for the Balloon?
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> you know what the bad part is?
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> I wholeheartedly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/High-Speed-Digital-Design-Handbook/dp/0133957241 It's not RF but high speed design which is very much like RF but without radiating it.
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> because I am doing EPR spectroscopy I should know about microwave stuff
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> well, to be fair I am starting
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> and we are not really working on PCBs
[18:47] <DL1SGP> of course you are welcome to listen yourself Manos (sv1iw)
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> We are desperately looking for station in Greece.
[18:48] <sv1iw> We have already one station listening from Crete and O have alerted People in Istanbul as well and Cuprus.
[18:48] <ike> LeoBodnar you should publish your design so we can just copy mindlessly
[18:48] <DL1SGP> thank you sv1iw (Manos) that rocks!
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> Lol are you serious?
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> does anybody know how I can get these 4 dictionaries into one thing? http://pastebin.com/2PEiUr8S
[18:48] <sv1iw> Unfortunately not everyone feels very comfortable so they need a gentle push!
[18:49] <DL1SGP> if any of such stations needs help in getting set up, please get them into this chat, we would be happy to help
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> It is just few chips stuck together on a small PCB, it's not even 4 layer.
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> I remember the Apex Alpha balloon and how we failed to get listeners from Poland here
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately that has changed
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> Here comes GENTLE PUSH!
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> thanks LeoBodnar
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> Please :)
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> Ah, well done sv1iw !
[18:50] <sv1iw> I am thinking of making an article for our magazine at least so people here in SV will be much more confident..
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> you surely know Kostas from Thessaloniki?
[18:51] <ike> LeoBodnar: or people will continue to slap arduinos to radiometrix modules
[18:51] <sv1iw> there a lot of people in thessaloniki, which one?
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> Kostas is the guy who did the first two stratosphere balloons of Greece
[18:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There is a guide for tracking on the Wiki if it helps, could do with translations of course! http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
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[18:52] <sv1iw> I haven;t heard abt it, but if he has a call i would have known.
[18:53] <sv1iw> Thanks Geoff I noticed the guide, I will think of something...
[18:54] <mfa298> ike: why don't you design something, then fly it and you could publish those designs
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[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> sv1iw, Kostas will come on IRC probably
[18:54] nosebleedkt (~nose@ppp079167036206.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> in a minute or so
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello nosebleedkt !
[18:54] <ike> I can't, I'm not that good
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> sv1iw, there he ist
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> *is
[18:54] <fsphil> ike: nothing wrong with slapping an arduino and ntx2 together
[18:54] <nosebleedkt> Yo stratonauts
[18:55] <fsphil> it's a good first step
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:55] <domlin> Evening all
[18:55] <nosebleedkt> sv1iw, Cretan ?
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> evenings!
[18:55] <domlin> Just got an IRC client for my ipad... It's terrible
[18:55] <sv1iw> No Athens,,
[18:55] <fsphil> the ipad?
[18:55] <fsphil> or the irc client? :)
[18:55] <domlin> Both
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[18:56] <domlin> I'm struggling to understand how the user list is sorted
[18:56] <nosebleedkt> sv1iw, Im from slaros project if you ever heard
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> is B11 predicted to curve east? if not - greek listeners seem likely not to hear it.
[18:56] <domlin> I can only assume that it adds up every number in a persons ip and sorts it by that
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil, no, west, towards Algeria
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> B-12 will fly to China probably
[18:56] <nosebleedkt> sv1iw, are you able to decode SSB stuff?
[18:56] Sven (2e732c46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.115.44.70) joined #highaltitude.
[18:57] <Sven> hello
[18:57] <nosebleedkt> sv1iw, you need a receiver at 434mhz
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[18:57] <mikestir> domlin: it's an ipad - it will be sorted by how cool they are
[18:57] Nick change: Sven -> Guest87197
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[18:57] <domlin> mikestir: that must be why I'm at the top
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> This is the best I had a few hours ago http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/B-11-prediction-24h.png
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi Sven
[18:58] <mfa298> mikestir, domlin: or by how much they love Steve Jobs
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> Did prediction change?
[18:58] <sv1iw> There is a receiver already listening since last night...
[18:58] <domlin> damn. I actually hate apple, I've no idea why I bought this
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> Reception range has a radius of about 350km (3 degrees longitude)
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> ping Steve_2e0vet
[18:59] <sv1iw> nosebleedkt sorry I am not familiar with the project i will google it...
[19:00] <nosebleedkt> sv1iw, www.facebook.com/slaros.project
[19:00] <domlin> balls to it I must find computer
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[19:00] <SpeedEvil> i guess mainland greece is looking unlikely - at least for B11 :( But the receiver on Crete has a great shot.
[19:00] <Steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs, hi chris
[19:00] <nosebleedkt> sv1iw, I had a report posted yesterday regarding B-11 so I assumed you sew it from there.
[19:00] <chrisstubbs> Ready when you are for EAGLE times, will OM you
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[19:01] <sv1iw> B-11 has not been heard yet from any SV stations, but there are just a 4 for the moment
[19:01] <fsphil> someone fancy a holiday in cyprus in the next day? :)
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, did you see my new innovation called "CrapBoard"?
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:01] <domlin> much better.
[19:02] <fsphil> no-expenses paid :)
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[19:02] <DL1SGP> fsphil: if you pay for the flight ticket I will dxpedition there :)
[19:02] <domlin> if there's a travelodge there i'll go
[19:02] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, i hope there are photos
[19:02] Nick change: Guest87197 -> Sven_
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> Well if we want to preempt the arrival of B-11 we should be in Libya
[19:03] Nick change: Sven_ -> _Sven
[19:03] Nick change: _Sven -> Sven1987h
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, XD
[19:03] <chrisstubbs> Please expand
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/5/k/5yv7i1-kvcum1-qn6g/StormdrifterIISMDCrapPCB.png
[19:04] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: are you talking to a balloon?
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[19:04] <chrisstubbs> Okay right, chip antenna is a little "far out"
[19:04] <chrisstubbs> rest looks pretty neat
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[19:04] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: he's feeling a bit deflated
[19:04] <chrisstubbs> And I can see an airwire :(
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> where?
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> bottom left going to JP1
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> LED/diode
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> ahhhh ground Via missing
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
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[19:05] <LeoBodnar> Don't be condescending fsphil
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[19:09] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: i just checked - easyjet don't ly to lybia for some reason
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[19:09] <Willdude123_> I know it's off topic but does anyone know an easy way to install the driver for a RTL8187L?
[19:09] <Willdude123_> Under backtrack
[19:09] <ike> it's supported under linux
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> We don't need to land SpeedEvil, maybe just overfly North Africa
[19:10] <DL1SGP> yeah overfly, then turn north, come back home, land in my yard :)
[19:10] <Willdude123_> ike it should bee
[19:10] <Willdude123_> *be
[19:10] <Willdude123_> Isn't
[19:10] <ike> we need stations in southern Italy
[19:11] Nick change: Willdude123_ -> Willdude123
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: I was wondering that.
[19:11] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, ducting might be good enough
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Are windows of planes transparent to 433
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> I guess you could always drill a small hole.
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Stick a yagi out
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> I think DME equipment works at about 400MHz
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: Does it?
[19:13] <DL7AD> 800mhz
[19:13] <DL7AD> i guess
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> SV9RHE has gone to a party or something
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> whatever you do on Crete...
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> tho im probably thinking of Rhodes
[19:15] <DL7AD> dme 960-1215
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> rofl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nWHmdTklQ4
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> seems i was thinking more of Rhodes
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> Forgiven then
[19:16] <sv1iw> nosebleedkt looks very interesting we can probably help on the radio side of things (http://www.raag.org)
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[19:23] GapSpark (950b6832@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.11.104.50) joined #highaltitude.
[19:23] <GapSpark> hello friends!
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[19:24] <yo5pjb> hi GapSpark
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> Hello GapSpark
[19:26] <GapSpark> whats on ?
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Nothing much. Chewing the rag.
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[19:28] <sv1iw> DL7AD have you got my e-mail?
[19:29] <DL7AD> nope
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[19:30] <Willdude123> Is it wrong to pentest my parent's wifi without asking?
[19:31] <Steffanx> No
[19:31] <sv1iw> DL7AD is this correct sven.steudte@gmail.com
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[19:34] <Maxell> Willdude123: I did this in a small store some friends ran, they thanked me kindly I was able to warn them on time.
[19:35] <DL7AD> sv1iw yes thats correct
[19:36] <mfa298> Legally you should have permission from whoever is responsible for the equipment before pentesting.
[19:36] <sv1iw> DL7AD I have resend it now just some simple notes regarding future events. pse let me know if you got it htis time...
[19:37] <DL7AD> sv1iw okay ....
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> What's pentesting? Scanning for ports?
[19:37] <mfa298> penetration testing, so includes any sort of weakness
[19:38] <DL7AD> sv1iw ah yes okay. i will do this.
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> OK
[19:38] <DL7AD> sv1iw do you have contact to SV9RHE ?
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[19:39] <DL7AD> sv1iw i want to check if he needs help for tracking
[19:39] <sv1iw> DL7AD I do not know him in person but I can contact him and ask
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[19:39] <DL7AD> okay. should be quick, because tomorrow b-11 is gone
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[19:41] <DL7AD> sv1iw or if you know someone special in rhodes.
[19:41] <DL7AD> i guess rhodes should be in range now
[19:41] <sv1iw> DL7AD as far as I can see the program works abtenna is a J pole so there are not much to fail.
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> We can buy a spread in major Cretan newspaper.
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> B-11 should be over Rhodes now.
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[19:42] <DL7AD> sv1iw ah okay cool. hope duction will do it
[19:42] <sv1iw> DL7AD I have alerted SV5DKL but I am not sure if he can receive on uhf ssb
[19:43] <sv1iw> DL7AD sending another urgent alert to Stathis now,,,
[19:43] <DL7AD> sv1iw rgr
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Is it via packet radio?
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[19:45] <LeoBodnar> I wish I had a good HF kit. The easiest way to get listening audience is probably make contact on HF in digimode. Then you know people know their stuff.
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> Just need to switch over to UHF if the have a setup.
[19:46] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar Packet network is almost dead, just a few nodes for sentimental reason.
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> Oh, does APRS work in Greece?
[19:46] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar Yes APRS is much better as a network
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> Do you know if Greek amateurs can operate from aircraft or balloon?
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[19:48] <JDat> heh
[19:48] <JDat> another video from zinoo-2 test drive
[19:48] <JDat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOE3xDir2kg
[19:48] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar Aircraft yes, balloon U have to investigate, I think regulations do not cover that but can be a revison if we need to do so...
[19:48] <JDat> and on local news portal
[19:48] <JDat> http://www.tvnet.lv/tehnologijas/zinatnes/478066-veiksmigi_izmeginata_kosmiska_zonde_zinoo2
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> Ah, they are usually classed together. UK amateur license specifically prohibits operation from any airborne vehicle :(
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> I am collecting info on airborne use in different countries so I will mark Greece as "allowed" for now
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[19:51] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar Maybe, maybe not, it has to be mentioned clearly, For example we have added DV modes recently in 2012. So I am not sure but this is not going to be a problem if we can cope with everything else...
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> OK, thank you for your help sv1iw
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[19:52] <sv1iw> LeoBodnar Dont mention it, my pleasure...
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[19:52] <yo5pjb> LeoBodnar: put also Romania on "allowed" list :)
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> Thank you yo5pjb :)
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> I have noted that there was an APRS transmitted from a glider YO7MJA-11
[19:53] <GapSpark> LeoBodnar: what happens when your balloon crosses into a country that is non cept or does not allow airborne operation in its airspace?
[19:53] <yo5pjb> and also last year was an stratospherium balloon project who was tracked using APRS
[19:54] <yo5pjb> The F16 will intercept it :P
[19:54] <GapSpark> its illegal
[19:54] <GapSpark> ?
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> This balloon carries 10mW transmitter that is classed as ISM device and is usually allowed for airborne use in all countries apart form I think Japan?
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> It's not a HAM equipment but ISM device.
[19:55] <DL1SGP> in Japan it would be OK if you added a tamagotchi to it :D
[19:55] <GapSpark> ism device, so its off the ham bands then?
[19:55] <GapSpark> DL1SGP: don't be so racist
[19:55] <mfa298> GapSpark: for aprs the balloon knows where it is so can just use aprs in the places that it's known to be legal from airborne
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> 70cm HAM band is shared with ISM on a secondary basis typically
[19:56] <DL1SGP> GapSpark: I do not see any racism in that statement, please refrain from assigning such attributes to me
[19:56] <GapSpark> DL1SGP: sterotypical statements like that are racist
[19:57] <GapSpark> its like saying its okay to fly a balloon over germany provided it has some swaztikas painted onto it
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Because you can't ask a car keyfob to QSY :)
[19:57] <DL1SGP> right then it was racist of other users earlier to state that a full british experience would include rainy weather
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> So ironically ISM are primary users
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> Haha, we are happy for anybody to take this rain away and keep it :D
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> It's raining now!
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Alleluia
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> wtf guys
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> calm down and stop being so PC
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> We need to meet face to face more often
[20:00] <yo5pjb> LeoBodnar: well at least your streets are cleaned up by rain, no dust :)
[20:00] Action: Laurenceb_ passes round some chill pills
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[20:00] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: i read "chilli" pills.. :)
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[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah hej Rebounder
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:05] <LeoBodnar> Time for a cuppa
[20:05] <Maxell> Laurenceb_: GIEF MORE OF THEM
[20:06] <GapSpark> do freenode staff know about this channel?
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[20:07] <Maxell> GapSpark: They know about evey chanel.
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[20:09] <GapSpark> Maxell: do you think?
[20:13] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[20:14] <PE2G> I just had mail contact with a radio amateur in Cyprus.
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Oh! Go PE2G, go!
[20:15] <PE2G> He picked up some weak signals (S0), which he thinks are the beeps and telemetry from B-11
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> oh awesome
[20:15] <DL1SGP> likely possible, feel free to share soundfiles :D
[20:15] <PE2G> His UHF SSB isn't functioning properly, alas
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> long way from cyprus
[20:16] <GapSpark> PE2G this is great!
[20:16] <PE2G> He'll try to make an audio recording and send it to us
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> At least we know it's alive
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> Cool
[20:18] <fsphil> sweet
[20:19] <Maxell> not cool LeoBodnar. For the next weeks eveyone start chekking out 434.5 MHz neurotically...
[20:19] <PE2G> The fact that his UHF set is iffy and he receives a signal nonetheless would suggest that B-11 isn't very far from Cyprus
[20:20] <fsphil> getting enough to decode?
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[20:21] <GapSpark> PE2G lets hope it does not fly over Syria
[20:21] <Maxell> pew pew
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[20:22] <PE2G> fsphil: He is unable to decode. Quote: "I don't have a proper radio-to-sound card interface (I damaged my radio last time I connected it directly to the PC)."
[20:22] <GapSpark> USA will claim its a device from Assad carrying Sarin and start full scale invasion
[20:23] <x-f> talking about racism..
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[20:23] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:23] <PE2G> I've sent him this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDW52IOwBzI
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> countertrolled
[20:23] <Maxell> PE2G: tell him to hold a mic near the speakers :P
[20:23] <PE2G> So he knows how B-11 sounds
[20:24] <PE2G> Maxell: I believe that's his plan
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> beepy
[20:24] <sv1iw> DL7AD Sven Stathis SV5DKL can listen the beacon on 434.500. it was loud 5 minutes ago but is fading now, he will install lthe program but I am afraid is too late, looks like is heading for Cyprus....
[20:25] <DL7AD> sv1iw oO. do you have contact to cprus?
[20:25] <DL7AD> cyprus?
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> Can he record sound?
[20:25] <DL1SGP> Also a mic to the speaker while connected to echolink could help :)
[20:25] <Maxell> or stream it over livestream
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> Well the good thing it's still transmitting
[20:25] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: I believe so
[20:25] <GapSpark> maybe he can sing the sound so we get idea of what its like?
[20:25] <Maxell> it worked with rtty, so it must work with domex16 too :P
[20:26] <fsphil> PE2G: ah. shame
[20:26] <GapSpark> in greece and cyprus you must remember they are very poor
[20:26] <sv1iw> DL7AD I can try to alert some, if I can find their cell phones, let me give it a try....
[20:26] <Maxell> GapSpark: kiddin?
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[20:27] <GapSpark> that fat German woman robbed them of what was rightfully theirs
[20:27] <fsphil> yea a recording would be great
[20:27] <fsphil> if it's a strong signal then dominoex should survive it
[20:27] <DL1SGP> So far about stereotypical statements, GapSpark...
[20:27] <DL7AD> sv1iw hm that would be great
[20:27] <GapSpark> DL1SGP: what is stereotypical about my last statement?
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> GapSpark is a pretty successful troll
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> got to hand it to them
[20:28] Action: Maxell claps
[20:28] <DL1SGP> yeah, he will win the troll award
[20:28] <DL1SGP> something he really could be proud of
[20:28] <Maxell> now go home, you are drunk
[20:28] <DL1SGP> who me?
[20:28] <sv1iw> DL7AD the bad thing is that they are unprepared and they need to act fast...then unless the wind blows from the south chances are few to regain contact...
[20:28] <DL1SGP> not yet :)
[20:29] <DL7AD> sv1iw do you have echolink?
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[20:29] <GapSpark> why is this channel in the wrong namespace?
[20:30] <DL1SGP> sv1iw: even if they just give us report on the fact that they are hearing B-11 and potentially a bearing using a directional antenna it would be helping, does not need to be full decodes
[20:30] <GapSpark> it needs to be moved
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[20:30] <GapSpark> to comply with freenode high command
[20:30] <sv1iw> DL7AD I can be on in two minutes
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> GapSpark: seriously give it a rest
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> or you'll be banned
[20:30] <DL7AD> sv1iw cool
[20:31] <PE2G> I've sent messages to members of a HAM club in the west of Cyprus
[20:31] <GapSpark> Laurenceb_: welcome to my /ignore
[20:31] <GapSpark> i've had enough of your harrasment
[20:31] <PE2G> But it's already a bit late there
[20:32] <DL7AD> sv1iw iff you dont quit your transmission i cant talk
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[20:37] <GapSpark> what is a good balloon for beginner?
[20:37] <GapSpark> one that can carry good payload and not burst so easy
[20:39] <DL1SGP> Do you aim for float time or altitude GapSpark?
[20:39] <GapSpark> both
[20:39] <GapSpark> a good compromise
[20:39] <ike> then get this http://www.theultimatepartystore.com/images/eldorado/EI4104.jpg
[20:40] <GapSpark> ike THATS SO FUCKING SICK!!!!
[20:40] <GapSpark> !OPS ike
[20:40] <mattltm> Last time I was in Spain, I saw a small child with one of them hitting her smaller brother in the face with it...
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:41] <DL1SGP> rofl
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[20:42] <DL7AD> ^^
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[20:47] <Benny_Boy> evening everyone
[20:47] <fsphil> evening!
[20:48] <Benny_Boy> I need some help with fldigi. Anyone able to assist?
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> go for it
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[20:49] <Benny_Boy> This is my first project so I have yet to successfully receive any data over radio. I have the ntx setup and running. I've followed the instructions on this site to set everything up and I can see the transmission in SDR
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> are you using an arduino?
[20:50] <Benny_Boy> I've setup the baud rate, parity and bits per char in fldigi, but the decoded transmission is garbage. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?
[20:50] <Benny_Boy> Pi
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[20:51] <Benny_Boy> I'm just running a simple test program to transmit a string ("Hello everybody")
[20:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can you do a screen shot showing the dl-fldigi window ?
[20:52] <fsphil> the usual things to check in dl-fldigi are, make sure SQL is off, Rv is off, both dl-fldigi and the radio/SDR should be in USB mode
[20:52] <fsphil> (or RTTYR in dl-fldigi -- it's the same thing as USB)
[20:52] <Benny_Boy> Ok, I'll check...
[20:52] <mfa298> What setup are you using for the Pi (using the serial port?) and what baud rate ?
[20:53] <Benny_Boy> serial port. 150 baud
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> you need 300 baud
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[20:53] <Benny_Boy> that said my string seems to be transmitted very quickly
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[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> well, you can try 50 baud but it can be temperamental on a Pi
[20:54] <Benny_Boy> I'll just pop off and check those points...
[20:54] <mfa298> 150 might work (although I don't think anyones used it) 50 seems to work for some but not others
[20:54] <steve_____> mattbrejza: I imagine the sync sequences should be left until after the binary encoding has been sorted out; imagine its quite straight forward to send some unused sequence and a checksum at regular intervals - I was thinking that making the data a lot more dense would suggest that missing chunks would be a lot more serious - there is no way to guarantee delivery without two way comms
[20:54] <mfa298> other thing to check is that you've disabled the various things that normally use the serial port (kernel logs and getty)
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> Benny_Boy: Also, try hitting rv. Depending on your setup, it might be that you have to reverse it maybe
[20:55] <Benny_Boy> where is teh rv option?
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> bottom right
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[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> on the lower panel
[20:55] <mattbrejza> yea sync is considered seperate to data encoding steve_____
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> but I would change the baud rate personally
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[20:56] Action: fsphil doesn't believe in sync's :)
[20:56] <mfa298> screenshots (of the whole window) for the sdr software and dl-fldigi and audio recordings can help as well.
[20:56] <fsphil> just test all the data :)
[20:57] <fsphil> CPU cycles are cheap(ish)
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[20:57] <Benny_Boy> no joy :(
[20:57] <mattbrejza> well
[20:57] <mattbrejza> not when you have to trubo decode :)
[20:58] <mattbrejza> also now you have to test every bit rather than every byte
[20:58] <fsphil> does turbo codes work on streams or blocks?
[20:58] <Benny_Boy> I'm getting back Zlh_rmeO6O,4wEa%xc
[20:58] <steve_____> i was thinking relying on distributed receiving but dismissed it
[20:58] <WillTablet> Hi
[20:58] <mattbrejza> streams
[20:58] <fsphil> ah
[20:58] <fsphil> well then yes, a sync is good
[20:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Benny_Boy, Can you post a screen shot
[20:58] <fsphil> if it's covered by the FEC
[20:58] <mattbrejza> even if it were blocks you would have to make sure your blocks wer eframed right
[20:58] <GapSpark> so seriously what balloon should I order?
[20:58] <GapSpark> good one for beginner
[20:58] <mattbrejza> by blocks do you mean 8 byte symbols or 1000 bit 'chunks'?
[20:59] <GapSpark> ?
[20:59] <mattbrejza> GapSpark: depends on payload weight
[20:59] <mfa298> GapSpark: depends on what you're flying and where you are
[20:59] <fsphil> mattbrejza: anything of fixed length
[20:59] <mattbrejza> GapSpark: http://habhub.org/calc/
[20:59] <GapSpark> some wouxing HT i suppose
[20:59] <mattbrejza> fsphil: yea its in blocks then
[20:59] <Benny_Boy> sure. How do I post it here?
[20:59] <GapSpark> send the HT up on it?
[20:59] <GapSpark> maybe solar panel
[20:59] <mfa298> GapSpark: where are you located ?
[21:00] <mikestir> mattbrejza: are you still thinking about the soft decision idea to get gain from multiple receivers?
[21:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Post it to something like imgur is best
[21:00] <mattbrejza> mikestir: not really atm
[21:00] <mattbrejza> get it working on the reciever's box first
[21:01] <mattbrejza> tbh as it stands you could combine partials on habitat
[21:01] <mattbrejza> but normally someone gets a full decode so its not really needed
[21:01] <steve_____> I was thinking about that and also simply sending everything twice
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[21:02] <Benny_Boy> http://imgur.com/Ku66yVc
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[21:03] <LeoBodnar> So who's driving the new standard? Is there a steering committee of sorts? We need to get a wiggle on.
[21:03] <mattbrejza> well we were discussing on #habhub for a while
[21:03] <GapSpark> mfa298: UK
[21:03] <mattbrejza> but atm its hack-a-clock
[21:03] <mfa298> Benny_Boy: you migt need to tune it slightly more, you should see two lines of data when it transmits
[21:04] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: its started becayse i had a brain dump on http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:binary_protocol
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[21:04] <mattbrejza> so feel free to add ideas to that page
[21:04] <mfa298> GapSpark: if you're UK the limits of what TX you can use airborne are very limited
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[21:04] <Benny_Boy> I do see those. I've turned down the resolution in the SDR display because it's killing my PC doing all the graphics
[21:04] <mfa298> you have to use certain bits of the ISM band so limited to 10mW
[21:04] <GapSpark> mfa298: well
[21:05] <GapSpark> mfa298: who is going to check?
[21:05] <steve_____> did you have a look at goolg protocol buffers or apache thrift?
[21:05] <DL1SGP> Benny_Boy: what is your LO set to on the RX side of the SDR and which frequency are you transmitting on?
[21:06] <mattbrejza> not properly
[21:06] <mfa298> Benny_Boy: you should see the two lines in dl-fldigi as well.
[21:07] <mikestir> what is the interface to habitat currently? just json over http?
[21:07] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:07] <steve_____> I think there is merit in using a portable system that is already well tested
[21:07] <mikestir> seems like it would be ideally suited to MQTT
[21:07] <Benny_Boy> The ntx2 is a 434.075, but sdr is picking up the signal at 434.049.370
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[21:08] <mfa298> Benny_Boy: it might help if we could see the sdr window in the screenshot
[21:08] <DL1SGP> GapSpark: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:restrictions_legality
[21:08] <adamgreig> steve_____: mikestir: looked at a few systems
[21:08] <mikestir> then you could post any container protocol you like to your own topic, then run a translation daemon somewhere to subscribe to that and re-post using the standard habitat one
[21:08] <adamgreig> not convinced by any of thrift, protobuf or mqtt for this
[21:09] <mfa298> it shouldn't be that far off, you might not be getting the true signal. You might also need to calibrate the sdr (if it's an rtl dongle)
[21:09] <Benny_Boy> I'll do another image... hang on...
[21:09] <adamgreig> not for over the air telem
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> Just reading your doc mattbrejza Good stuff
[21:09] <adamgreig> not convinced by thrift in general actually
[21:09] <adamgreig> thrift seems awful
[21:09] <adamgreig> protobuf is nice
[21:09] <mikestir> i'm not suggesting mqtt for ota - definitely not
[21:09] <GapSpark> what happens if a balloon strays into UK airspace?
[21:09] <adamgreig> haha okay good
[21:09] <mikestir> but as a way of abstracting the habitat end a bit
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[21:09] <adamgreig> for habitat internals?
[21:09] <adamgreig> yea it's an interesting option
[21:09] <adamgreig> so at the moment basically the whole architecture is couchdb
[21:09] <adamgreig> which has a REST JSON HTTP API
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> Can we use Callsign hash instead to reduce the data amount?
[21:09] <GapSpark> is that illegal also?
[21:10] <adamgreig> but we're basically planning on nuking a lot of that
[21:10] <adamgreig> because couchdb is really slow
[21:10] <adamgreig> and nosql has failed to deliver ;)
[21:10] <craag> GapSpark: If it happens accidentally, and doesn't cause interference, I doubt you'll get in much trouble.
[21:10] <adamgreig> having a message queue system coooould be an interesting option
[21:10] <adamgreig> but I'm not sure we really warrant the complexity
[21:10] <craag> Doing it purposely however, is illegal.
[21:10] <mikestir> I wrote a nosql database for time series data. openenergymonitor has just replaced their mysql stack with it
[21:10] <steve_____> I was considering protocol buffers or thrift for serialising and sending telemetry and other data
[21:10] <mikestir> they've got huge speed ups
[21:11] <fsphil> doing it accidently is illegal too :)
[21:11] <craag> fsphil: Of course!
[21:11] <Benny_Boy> http://i.imgur.com/CjTcCjh.jpg
[21:11] <adamgreig> mikestir: what db?
[21:11] <mfa298> GapSpark: however having asked such questions in a public forum you wouldn't be doing it accidentally - if that's what you're thinking
[21:11] <GapSpark> craag: but its against the law?
[21:11] <craag> GapSpark: Yep.
[21:11] <mikestir> it's called timestore. it's still quite early days but it works
[21:11] <ike> mattbrejza Binary protocol is verry cool idea, I wonder can it be done with user defined fields? Like firt 4 bytes as ASCII next 4 bytes as uint32_t, next 4 bytes as float and so on
[21:11] <mattbrejza> steve_____: surely with google protocol buffer the tx needs to tell the rx the format before they can exchange data?
[21:11] <adamgreig> I'm being a little bit snarky when I say nosql failed to deliver here
[21:11] <mikestir> it basically just stores floats in an unindexed flat file
[21:12] <adamgreig> lol
[21:12] <adamgreig> definitely sounds like nosql
[21:12] <GapSpark> if i accidentally got drunk and drove a car because i was drunk it would be okay also?
[21:12] <ike> mattbrejza some gps recivers dump bin data
[21:12] <GapSpark> as it was accident to get drunk
[21:12] <mattbrejza> ike: you read my page?
[21:12] <mikestir> so you can seek trivially to a given time
[21:12] <mikestir> but it also does downsampling
[21:12] <mikestir> it's like rrdtool but doesn't destroy old data
[21:12] <adamgreig> neat
[21:13] <mikestir> I don't think it would work for hab data though, because although that's time series it doesn't really get queried in the same way
[21:13] <mattbrejza> the idea is to be able to get data from teh string without needing to know knowledge about it from say habitat (althoigh what sensor data actually relates to will need habitat)
[21:13] <steve_____> I must have missed that mattbrejza - let me check again - I was just thinking why write a custom binary encoding scheme when one surely exists
[21:13] <mikestir> it's designed for sensor data
[21:13] <craag> GapSpark: I'm saying that there have been APRS balloons that have strayed into non-legal-airborne airspace.
[21:13] <adamgreig> steve_____: I agree - can you think of any good ones?
[21:13] <adamgreig> would love to be able to use an extant protocol if there is a suitable one
[21:13] <adamgreig> but I couldn't locate anything obviously good
[21:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Benny_Boy, Your shift seems to be more like 5KHz not 425Hz
[21:13] <adamgreig> the great thing about binary protocols is they're so easy to write your own! ;)
[21:14] <GapSpark> craag was interpol involved?
[21:14] <mattbrejza> can always nick googles method of encoding different data fields though
[21:14] <steve_____> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data_serialization_formats
[21:14] <mikestir> bson?
[21:14] <adamgreig> yes, I know there are many huge lists
[21:14] <adamgreig> can you actually suggest any?
[21:14] <mattbrejza> to use an existing protocol it will have to match our requirements quite well
[21:14] <adamgreig> mikestir: I'd say msgpack over bson
[21:14] <adamgreig> but neither is appropriate really
[21:14] <GapSpark> Geoff-G8DHE: if we can the opinion of a class B, we'll tap it out in morse code!
[21:14] <adamgreig> we don't need that much flexibility
[21:14] <steve_____> not that I have used successful no
[21:15] <GapSpark> can=want
[21:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tell a lie you have a very narrow window, yes its in 400-500Hz range
[21:15] <mikestir> I've actually thought about this problem in the context of wireless sensor networks
[21:15] <steve_____> I was thinking googles looked good
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[21:15] <adamgreig> protobuf?
[21:15] <mikestir> there's a need for a protocol that can convey essentially name/value pairs, with units, but without resorting to just sending it in ascii
[21:15] <steve_____> but I missed the two way coms
[21:15] <craag> GapSpark: Not in those cases. But I dread to think what would happen if one started actually causing interference to safety-of-life systems.
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: if we design protocol to be nice to occasional rogue user at a disadvantage to all those who need tight efficient data stream we are back to square one :)
[21:15] <WillTablet> Hi craag
[21:15] <craag> Evening WillTablet
[21:15] <fsphil> have a seriously simple protocol. just an array of variable-length values
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[21:16] <adamgreig> fsphil: like msgpack or bson?
[21:16] <Benny_Boy> How did my shift end up being 5khz?
[21:16] <fsphil> have the first 5 pre-defined (callsign, time, lat, long, altitude)
[21:16] <mikestir> fsphil: but how do you handle introspection?
[21:16] <mikestir> you need some kind of agreed record type
[21:16] <WillTablet> craag how are you?
[21:16] <GapSpark> craag: like txing from balloon on 121.5?
[21:16] <fsphil> adamgreig: will have to read up on those
[21:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> No its not I wasn't expecting such a narrow sdr# window it is in the order of 400-500Hz
[21:17] <fsphil> mikestir: introspection?
[21:17] <GapSpark> http://www.g8dhe.com/ <<
[21:17] <mikestir> to enable the receiver to decode to actual meaningful data without prior knowledge of the packet structure
[21:17] <GapSpark> this wife looks very much like him
[21:17] <mattbrejza> it seems that gps is reasonably trival, its just how to handle sensors. Do we just convey a series of values at certain times, (this is what we do already), or try to send over what the sensor is and how to scale it etc (which seems like it will take too much BW)
[21:17] <GapSpark> his sister perhaps?
[21:18] <craag> GapSpark: Yeah, that would not be good. I visited Ofcom at Baldock and they showed us data from a pirate FM station the day before that had a harmonic on the heathrow landing freq, took them 18 minutes from it switching on to the cops breaking down the door and putting a boot through the transmitter.
[21:18] <mattbrejza> meaningful data just means 4,6,8,7,5,8,11,10 rather than knowning what those numbers mean
[21:18] <fsphil> adamgreig: similar, only without the field names and the values are not strings
[21:18] <mfa298> Benny_Boy: that transmission looks quite short for a reasonably long string. if might be worth uploading a bit of the audio if you can (dropbox can work well if you have an account)
[21:18] <adamgreig> fsphil: is that bson?
[21:18] <mattbrejza> (except gps)
[21:18] <adamgreig> msgpack has non-string values
[21:18] <fsphil> adamgreig: only read about msgpack first
[21:18] <GapSpark> craag BS
[21:18] <adamgreig> oh
[21:18] <sv1iw> DL7AD Sven 5B and OD5 hams alerted, Let;s hope for the best...
[21:19] <fsphil> ooh I need to read more
[21:19] <adamgreig> msgpack supports a whole range of binary value types
[21:19] <adamgreig> we could extend the type id bit to cover some specific ones - gps coordinates primarily
[21:19] <GapSpark> ofcom could not find their way out of a wet paper bag
[21:19] <mattbrejza> although i guess you could define a message that you could send every now and then that defines feild meanings, but that runs into the 'will every rx implement issue'
[21:19] <fsphil> it would be nice to use an existing standard
[21:19] <mikestir> adamgreig: http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/timestore in case you didn't find it. I don't think it's high up on google
[21:19] <fsphil> mattbrejza: nah, leave that for the payload doc
[21:19] <mattbrejza> thats what i would have said
[21:19] <Benny_Boy> I though it was very short. I've checked the code and it all seems fine. I'm using the wiringPi library
[21:19] <craag> GapSpark: When something happens like that in london, they have about 20 GPS time-of-flight ranging station that give a heatmap of the estimated source.
[21:20] <WillTablet> craag was that on ILS or ATC?
[21:20] <fsphil> I'll read up on those formats a bit more
[21:20] <mattbrejza> if you dont have internet and cant find out that a value means temperature, than o well
[21:20] <adamgreig> fsphil: I'd ignore bson
[21:20] <WillTablet> And how did you get to go to ofcom?
[21:20] <adamgreig> read up on msgpack
[21:20] <craag> WillTablet: Can't remember the details
[21:20] <fsphil> will do
[21:20] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: we could have a format ID that is "integer degrees C"
[21:20] <WillTablet> Oh OK.
[21:20] <adamgreig> and then for 80% of sensor use cases
[21:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you tried reading the data on a serial port from the Pi to check format and baud rate ?
[21:20] <adamgreig> receivers could work it out themselves
[21:20] <steve_____> msgpack looks good
[21:20] <adamgreig> msgpack is wonderful
[21:20] <craag> WillTablet: I went along for an interview to do Spectrum Monitoring for the Olympics.
[21:21] <adamgreig> but I worry it's a bit verbose _still_ for what we want
[21:21] <adamgreig> and we'd definitely want to add our own data formats on for our common use cases
[21:21] <adamgreig> so we could extend - just use some of the reversed format types
[21:21] <adamgreig> or we could replace - just use the same structure but with our own data formats
[21:21] <WillTablet> craag Did you get the job?
[21:21] <adamgreig> but it's certainly not a bad source of inspiration
[21:21] <DL7AD> wv1iw rgr
[21:21] <craag> WillTablet: But in the intro presentation they said they wanted someone with at least 10 years experience in the industry, at which point everyone looked at me and laughed.
[21:22] <WillTablet> Heh
[21:22] <mattbrejza> although the msgpack method assumes we will want to know the names of the sensor fields
[21:22] <mattbrejza> ?
[21:22] <craag> Did the day anyway, played with some very cool kit.
[21:22] <DL7AD> sv1iw do they know how to install and configure the program?
[21:22] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: yea. that's why I think it's too verbose
[21:22] <steve_____> one issue I thought about is that if the data structures were large then missing even a bit could be a big problem
[21:22] <adamgreig> steve_____: this is another problem
[21:22] <adamgreig> a legit one, but
[21:22] <adamgreig> we're working out a source encoding
[21:23] <adamgreig> your actual modulation scheme or error coding wants to deal with that issue
[21:23] <adamgreig> this is a binary replacement for $$HELLO,1234*ABCD
[21:23] <adamgreig> not for RTTY
[21:23] <fsphil> I think msgpack is too much. my idea doesn't even have types :)
[21:23] <craag> WillTablet: Well, mostly cool, apart from the spectrum analyzer that ran Win XP Embedded.
[21:23] <steve_____> send twice or distributed receivers?
[21:23] <DL7AD> sv1iw to avoid wasting time
[21:23] <adamgreig> fsphil: given as the types are combined with field length
[21:23] <adamgreig> I think it's a ncie idea
[21:23] <sv1iw> DL7AD all information has been sent and links for the software, installation tutorial and tracking site
[21:23] <adamgreig> it means any receiver can at least display the data
[21:23] <mfa298> Benny_Boy I'm not sure that you need to use the wiringpi library if you're using the serial port.
[21:23] <DL7AD> sv1iw okay
[21:23] <adamgreig> there's no reason to say "here are two bytes of data" compared to "here's a two byte integer"
[21:24] <adamgreig> in any case you just need one byte for field type+length
[21:24] <adamgreig> in the msgpack fashion
[21:24] <fsphil> they'd need to understand the content of the data to display it in a useful way
[21:24] <adamgreig> and if you want a varilength string, that's fine too
[21:24] <mikestir> suppose there's no need to send the field info every time
[21:24] <sv1iw> DL7AD it will need some effort on their side but that is the way ot goes...
[21:24] <adamgreig> fsphil: yes - but we can do that too
[21:24] <adamgreig> "here's a two byte integer temperature"
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[21:24] <mattbrejza> the issue is if you have a 16bit int, do you have to do some funky scaling to get a value in mB (as an example)
[21:24] <mikestir> could send packed data most of the time, then periodically send field types as metadata
[21:24] <mfa298> Benny_Boy: If you're trying to use the arduino approach of turning a pin on and off you are likely to have some timing issues - it's possible to bitbang on the pi but I'm not sure you can do it with wiring pi
[21:24] <adamgreig> for 80% maybe of our use cases, we could fit everything in one byte
[21:24] <Benny_Boy> mfa298: It is just a wrapper I admit, but it made life a little easier as I learnt
[21:24] <adamgreig> for the rest, "here's variable length data, the next byte is the length"
[21:24] <adamgreig> we have _very_ few true variable length fields
[21:25] <adamgreig> steve_____: please don't send twice ;)
[21:25] <adamgreig> repetition error codes are the worst error codes
[21:25] <adamgreig> well, from an info theoretic point of view
[21:25] <adamgreig> obviously the simplest too!
[21:25] <adamgreig> we already have multiple receivers
[21:25] <craag> As was explained at the conf..
[21:25] <mattbrejza> so should each packet be decodable by itself, (even if it means that we might not know the name of a sensor)
[21:25] <adamgreig> and you benefit a _lot_ from short messages
[21:25] <adamgreig> our channel is not gaussian noise
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> Can payload transmit field structure from time to time and the server will keep it then receivers can retrieve it from the server?
[21:26] <adamgreig> so the shorter your message is, the more likely you'll get it all through without interference
[21:26] <adamgreig> vs a long slow rtty message which is hundreds of bits and any one going wrong breaks it
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> When inited initially
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[21:26] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: true for uncoded
[21:26] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: yes, we could do that. but for the amount of data we have...
[21:26] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: yes I'm talking about uncoded
[21:26] <mattbrejza> ah
[21:26] <adamgreig> we're designing a binary protocol to replace the ukhas telem strings
[21:26] <adamgreig> not talking about an error code or modulation schema at the moment
[21:26] <adamgreig> well we have started talking about that
[21:26] <adamgreig> which is a problem really
[21:26] <adamgreig> I mean throwing ideas around is ok
[21:26] <mattbrejza> well modulation is seperate
[21:27] <adamgreig> but you need to focus on what we're actually trying to accomplish
[21:27] <mfa298> Benny_Boy: I think most people that have used the pi just open the serial port and send data to it.
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> It's better to separate modulation scheme from binary contents
[21:27] <adamgreig> modulation might not be separate from error coding, depending on what error coding we use
[21:27] <steve_____> I think a binary code requires thought to the transmission
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> you need a packet specifying the mission theme song.
[21:27] <adamgreig> steve_____: definitely requires _some_ thought
[21:27] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: that's already on the requirements list, of course
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> However if legacy formats remain it can be done
[21:27] <Benny_Boy> Ok. I'll give that a go. Gotta go now, but thanks for teh help and advise. I'll be back if I'm still stuck
[21:27] <Benny_Boy> Ta muchly! :)
[21:27] <mattbrejza> well you could TCM i suppose, normalyl used with PSK/QAM though
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[21:28] <steve_____> The way strings are sent at the moment is nice
[21:28] <steve_____> if you miss one who cares the next is on the way in a couple of seconds
[21:29] <adamgreig> right
[21:29] <adamgreig> with these binary packets
[21:29] <adamgreig> you could fit three or four in a second
[21:29] <adamgreig> it's even quicker
[21:29] <steve_____> if you miss part of the image it doesn't matter
[21:29] <adamgreig> so if you miss one, it's still no biggie
[21:29] <adamgreig> and someone else probably got it anyway
[21:29] <adamgreig> shorter packets are only going to help matters when we don't have error correction
[21:29] <adamgreig> well, they're only going to help ever
[21:29] <steve_____> true
[21:29] <fsphil> we'd also gain a way of encoding the last x positions in one data unit
[21:29] <adamgreig> our current system has a huge, incredible amount of redundant info
[21:30] <adamgreig> we could make a binary protocol that transmitted field names and values in binary and probably use less bits per sentence than currently
[21:30] <mattbrejza> im going for longer packets becsyse as you might guess i intend to use error correction
[21:30] <adamgreig> putting multiple positions in one pdu is fun
[21:30] <steve_____> I think its needed if we start thinking of deltas
[21:30] <adamgreig> I had a great chance to play with a lot of stupid ways of doing this commercially
[21:30] <adamgreig> I've seen some _terrible_ protocols for lat/lng deltas
[21:31] <adamgreig> oh my god
[21:31] <adamgreig> I was crying for days
[21:31] <mattbrejza> well most of my initial brain dump was how to handle deltas
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[21:31] <fsphil> the variable length thing would be good for deltas. using very little data for values that don't change much
[21:32] <adamgreig> yea
[21:32] <adamgreig> but if you're going to transmit sequential deltas you need to be incredibly sure you don't miss anything or you can't reconstruct any positions past the error
[21:33] <adamgreig> which means you absolutely need solid ecc and checksums
[21:33] <steve_____> I imagine that the full message would have to be sent every so often though as deltas would imply 0 tolerance for corruption
[21:33] <adamgreig> whereas with transmitting whole positions - or deltas from one original position - errors in one delta don't matter
[21:33] <fsphil> oh I wouldn't transmit deltas without a reference in the same packet
[21:33] <steve_____> ^^
[21:33] <fsphil> always start with an absolute
[21:33] <adamgreig> fsphil: sure but even inside the same packet
[21:33] <adamgreig> you start with an absolute
[21:33] <adamgreig> but if you then transmit 20 deltas
[21:33] <adamgreig> and each one is a delta from the previous delta
[21:33] <adamgreig> then any one corruption loses it all
[21:33] <adamgreig> whereas if each one is a delta from the original complete position, that's less of a cocnern
[21:33] <fsphil> I'm not condisering errors at this level
[21:33] <adamgreig> but obviously you then have worse compression
[21:33] <fsphil> considering*
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[21:34] <steve_____> if habitat was used that would not be an issue
[21:34] <fsphil> if the packet doesn't pass the CRC test then it's all bad :)
[21:34] <mattbrejza> well a checksum will protect errors in a delta
[21:34] <adamgreig> it will detect
[21:34] <steve_____> but for individual decoders it would be a problem
[21:34] <adamgreig> which isn't quite the same thing
[21:34] <adamgreig> I also question how much deltas is seriously useful
[21:34] <adamgreig> depends what you're doing
[21:34] <adamgreig> for long duration drifters, yes, sure
[21:34] <adamgreig> for anything else?
[21:35] <adamgreig> in the fields I was doing deltas commercially we were sending hours of 1s data over a GSM modem
[21:35] <adamgreig> so you got a data dump every day or something, and every byte cost
[21:35] <steve_____> matt was suggesting more room for image data
[21:35] <adamgreig> but we're transmitting the whole time we are in the air and don't need 1s data anyway
[21:35] <fsphil> good for ocean floaters :)
[21:35] <steve_____> whats with ocean floaters
[21:35] <adamgreig> true, fantastic for ocean floaters for exactly the same reason
[21:35] <mattbrejza> i was going for lots of updates as one of the cases
[21:35] <adamgreig> you pay a lot for each byte and only transmit very infrequently
[21:36] <steve_____> I missed james joke
[21:36] <fsphil> yea for a regular flight it's not too useful
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[21:36] <adamgreig> and for very long duration floats with a rockblock ;)
[21:36] <adamgreig> more room for image data would be a nice thing too, but I don't know if we want to design this protocol to include image support
[21:36] <fsphil> I wouldn't
[21:36] <mattbrejza> well it more for when you switch to ssdv
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[21:38] <steve_____> anyways
[21:38] <steve_____> I am off for now
[21:38] <steve_____> bb4now
[21:38] <fsphil> g'nite!
[21:38] <mattbrejza> laters
[21:38] <DL1SGP> bye steve_____ have a good night
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[21:40] <Maxell> 22:37:30 < GapSpark> one that can carry good payload and not burst so easy
[21:40] <Maxell> 22:39:11 < DL1SGP> Do you aim for float time or altitude GapSpark?
[21:40] <Maxell> 22:39:31 < GapSpark> both, a good compromise
[21:40] <Maxell> 22:39:58 < ike> then get this http://www.theultimatepartystore.com/images/eldorado/EI4104.jpg
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[21:41] <Maxell> thats gold
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[21:47] <DL1SGP> welkom terug PA1SDB
[21:49] <PA1SDB> Hi, ja ik moest even werken...
[21:49] <PA1SDB> Geen signaal reports meer zie ik.
[21:50] <PA1SDB> Tenminste niet sinds 12h
[21:51] <DL1SGP> exact
[21:53] <PA1SDB> Perhaps someone is able to send a plain into B11 or B12 area with receiver on board ? :-)
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[21:57] <DL1SGP> we hope on getting some signals later or tomorrow, already we know it was audible about 2h ago
[21:57] <DL1SGP> just no decodes
[22:01] <DL1SGP> so basically we have to be patient hehe
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[22:01] <PA1SDB> O.K. PR. is also very important. Incidentally I did see a retweet from some one via Twitter, otherwise I didn't know about this.
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[22:03] <PA1SDB> That tweet did take my attention. In the past I did try to copy balloons from the USA on 30 meter in RTTY. That's already years ago.
[22:04] <DL1SGP> just today a few HAMs in the area were contacted, so there is hope that by tomorrow we see some more receivers scattered over Greece.
[22:04] <PA1SDB> They wrote also a special program to decode and upload data...
[22:04] <DL1SGP> ah
[22:05] <PA1SDB> I try to do some PR via my facebook and twitter followers...
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[22:06] <DL1SGP> dankt jou well Peter
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[22:27] <Maxell> \0/ dutchies >3
[22:28] <DL1SGP> hehe
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> need moar listeners
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[22:29] <PH3V> Another example of 'ham spam' ;-) > http://forum.db3om.de/ftopic19156.html&sid=76f86731ea2dd7ade68c28d324150c7c
[22:30] <PA1SDB> O.K., I did broadcast my PR commercials via the media :-)
[22:30] <PH3V> No reply's but more than 350 views :-)
[22:32] <DL1SGP> heh
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> Good night guys, I am chasing some sleep time.
[22:33] <PE2G> Goodnight Leo
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[22:34] <PH3V> Good night Leo..
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[22:34] <PE2G> Laurenceb_: In which country do we need listeners now?
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[22:36] <PA1SDB> Me to, gn all
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[22:38] <PH3V> @PE2G Libya > B11 / Moldova,Turkey > B12
[22:40] <DL1SGP> PE2G: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/3-day-prediction-B11-B12.png
[22:41] <PE2G> Thanks PH3V & DL1SGP
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> uu4jlm should get B-12 at dawn if he is around
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> noone seems to be home on Crete :-/
[22:43] <DL1SGP> graag!
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> B-12 might beat B-11 for received duration
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[22:44] <GapSpark> so what is a good balloon for beginner?
[22:44] <GapSpark> just something that will take old spare radio into stratosphere or so
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[22:45] <GapSpark> I am thinking i can remove the cooling fan from the radio
[22:45] <GapSpark> as high altitude will cool it
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[22:46] <GapSpark> upon landing we can trigger a low altitude alarm which will activate lights and flashers left over from my raynet whacker days
[22:47] <GapSpark> incase the payload decides to land at heathrow terminal 5
[22:47] <GapSpark> J0j0
[22:47] <GapSpark> !!!!
[22:47] <K9JKM> Mick!?
[22:48] <GapSpark> K9JKM: yes!!!
[22:48] <GapSpark> my friends here are helping me put a B into space on a balloon
[22:48] <K9JKM> Well, well, well, hello then
[22:48] <GapSpark> hi :-)
[22:49] <K9JKM> Balloon sounds like a fun project
[22:49] <GapSpark> FT-101Balloon
[22:49] <K9JKM> I'm enjoying the adventures these blokes are having
[22:51] <GapSpark> i think 3 of these should lift my FT101B http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400334443475?
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[22:53] <GapSpark> its whats going to lift the honda genny that worries me
[22:53] <K9JKM> Heh, ya just like the ponies
[22:53] <GapSpark> they only have 6 left!
[22:53] <K9JKM> Order early and order often
[22:55] <GapSpark> K9JKM: i am trying to reduce my carbon footprint
[22:55] <GapSpark> to allow the chinese to fill my carbon shoes!
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[22:56] <K9JKM> Switch to solar power instead of a Honda Gen
[22:57] <GapSpark> solar power hahahaha
[22:57] <GapSpark> thats so 1980s casio calculator
[22:57] <K9JKM> May need to resort to solid state instead of tubes (valves)
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[22:58] <GapSpark> valves will ensure the balloon will withstand a nuclear blast
[22:58] <K9JKM> I can copy FM signals from a 250 mW transmitter in space 500 km away
[22:59] <GapSpark> K9JKM: what are the aliens telling you to do?
[22:59] <K9JKM> They are telling me to quit egging you on
[22:59] <GapSpark> my aliens mostly use MCW and AM
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[23:02] <GapSpark> K9JKM: too late
[23:02] <GapSpark> you have put me in the ZONE!
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[00:00] --- Tue Sep 10 2013