highaltitude.log.20130908

[00:00] <enkidu> hold your breath
[00:01] <crash_18974> WillTablet: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[00:01] <ike> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=B-12%3B+B-11
[00:01] <enkidu> B12 comeback was even better
[00:02] <Maxell> true
[00:02] <Maxell> Laurenceb_: yeah what is this log function?
[00:02] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[00:02] <crash_18974> this stuff is epic. Much more fun than ascending and popping.
[00:02] <Maxell> also, why is B-11 and B-12 sending in packs of two?
[00:02] <Hix> that was worth the question then?!?
[00:03] <Maxell> oh, is that it?
[00:03] <fsphil> hah, I bet it crashed Will's tablet
[00:03] <enkidu> log coming
[00:03] <enkidu> no proper packet
[00:03] <Maxell> It holds back one location so it can send it in pack?
[00:04] <PE2G8915> Maxell: Previous positions recorded at even hrs UTC are re-transmitted
[00:04] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> very nice
[00:04] <Maxell> oh, wow
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> thats so awesome
[00:05] <fsphil> though it's not quite working
[00:05] <Maxell> I taught it was like holding on to one so it could send as two while the transmitter is hot
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> F5
[00:05] <Maxell> but it is rotating itself?
[00:05] <Hix> he's taking the p now. Kudos to him :D
[00:06] F5MVO (52e6b25d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.178.93) left #highaltitude.
[00:06] <Maxell> ah, thats why it looks spazzy sometimes
[00:06] <Maxell> very clever i must saya
[00:06] <Maxell> PE2G8915: is it doing random locations that have not been re-transmitted yet?
[00:07] <PE2G8915> No
[00:07] <Maxell> or is working trough it in a sequence?
[00:07] <PE2G8915> Yes
[00:07] <fsphil> it looks bad on the map because it's transmitting data from previous days
[00:07] <fsphil> but not including the date in the string, just the time
[00:07] <Laurenceb_> ah
[00:07] <fsphil> so habitat basically assumes it's the current date
[00:08] <fsphil> easy enough to fix manually
[00:08] <Maxell> PE2G8915: thanks
[00:08] <Laurenceb_> now something else has broken
[00:08] <Laurenceb_> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/ has newer data
[00:09] <Maxell> fsphil: good, but even better to also save the time and transmit that down the line so no manual fixing is needed
[00:09] <Maxell> Or is the current time required?
[00:09] <enkidu> it is
[00:09] <fsphil> for this yes
[00:09] <enkidu> for me it would be nice to keef timestamp
[00:11] <Maxell> Laurenceb_: very nice graphs. Can you import older flights?
[00:11] <Laurenceb_> i dont know
[00:11] <Laurenceb_> not my site :P
[00:11] <Maxell> ah
[00:11] <Maxell> x-f: Can you import older flights?
[00:11] <Laurenceb_> runs off the habitat thingy
[00:12] <Hix> hey Costyn
[00:12] <Laurenceb_> spacenear thinks its 2013-09-08 22:00:51
[00:12] <Laurenceb_> something rather screwed
[00:12] <Hix> I despise that time/date format
[00:13] <enkidu> at least we got log
[00:13] <Laurenceb_> bet fsphil isnt so happy
[00:14] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[00:14] <Hix> Anyone got any updates on what happened to the BabsPipes?
[00:15] <fsphil> I like that date format. it sorts properly
[00:15] MIG-29 (bc199703@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.25.151.3) joined #highaltitude.
[00:15] <enkidu> unix timestamp sorts properly too
[00:16] <fsphil> hard to read. and if you're doing that, might as well do it properly and transmit binary data
[00:16] <fsphil> cleaned the map, refresh
[00:16] <enkidu> binary was considered too ;)
[00:19] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[00:21] <Maxell> 2013-09-08 22:00:51 is best!
[00:21] <PE2G8915> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13765_trj001.gif
[00:22] <fsphil> not bad
[00:22] <Maxell> PE2G8915: does it always sends an extra log, or is only every x minutes it starts going back in time?
[00:22] <fsphil> every two hours
[00:23] <Maxell> and for how long does it does this?
[00:23] <Maxell> or how many datapoints?
[00:23] <fsphil> not sure exactly. 16-ish
[00:23] <Maxell> yay .pl listeners will have some great time
[00:23] <Maxell> ah
[00:23] <enkidu> I have. cannot decode anything but it is well heard
[00:23] <Maxell> Not that much...
[00:24] <Maxell> enkidu: how so?
[00:24] <fsphil> enough to know where's it has been
[00:24] <Maxell> what does the signal looks like on dl-fldigi?
[00:24] <enkidu> like dna helix ;)
[00:24] <Maxell> if you can hear it it can be decoded
[00:24] <Maxell> domex16 is magic
[00:25] <crash_18974> Welcome to Poland B-11. How long will the world tour last?
[00:25] <Maxell> fsphil: true, it is crude, but suffcient
[00:25] <enkidu> #D8nFnrt00QLUbR bi0,oi.5Li,?UV5wOSTYIS-6Vrrj#Da3,8F,S0orJnNN9'X1IvSO32Btd578,i,Q3LePV9Hb2
[00:25] <enkidu> this is what I got
[00:25] <enkidu> to much noise in background
[00:26] Hix (~Hix@149.241.238.10) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[00:27] <Maxell> SP2XDF has now taken over \o/
[00:27] <Maxell> enkidu: DomEX16 can be decoded even when it's down into the noisefloor
[00:27] <Maxell> spreads pectrum magic
[00:27] <WillTablet> How long has b 11 been up for?
[00:28] <enkidu> Maxell: domex modem settings? filter off?
[00:28] <Maxell> WillTablet: start 2013-09-01 16:50:08
[00:28] MIG-29 (bc199703@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.25.151.3) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[00:28] <Maxell> WillTablet: currently 2013-09-08 00:24:47
[00:28] <Maxell> enkidu: autoconfigure or "DomEX16" What filter?
[00:28] <PE2G8915> Maxell: B-12 strong, B-11 weak, received on Sept. 3:
[00:29] <PE2G8915> http://s23.postimg.org/92fdwxovv/Screen1049.jpg
[00:29] <enkidu> autoconfigure
[00:29] <WillTablet> How on earth??
[00:29] <WillTablet> Is it aprsing?
[00:29] <mfa298> it's not oon the earth
[00:29] <Maxell> PE2G8915: nicely captured
[00:29] <mfa298> it's 9km above the earth
[00:30] <fsphil> ah you have both B- flights
[00:30] <fsphil> the other one usually stops transmitting at night doesn't it?
[00:30] <Maxell> WillTablet: APRS? No, DomEX16 mode, solar powered
[00:30] <enkidu> unfortunately yes
[00:31] <WillTablet> Ah OK, how has it been up for almost a week?
[00:31] <mfa298> magic
[00:31] <crash_18974> voodoo
[00:31] <Maxell> WillTablet: however, B-12's battery can not hold suffcient charge for the full night.
[00:31] <Maxell> WillTablet: yes.
[00:31] <Maxell> mfa298: magnets
[00:31] <enkidu> Aliens
[00:31] <Maxell> crash_18974: no, magnets.
[00:31] <PE2G8915> fsphil: Yes, this was a screenshot taken at daytime
[00:31] <mfa298> also known as a very small payload so the foil balloon can fly above a lot of weather etc
[00:31] <fsphil> ah
[00:31] <crash_18974> :)
[00:31] DL1SGP (d90fa3ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.163.237) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[00:32] <WillTablet> Why has this one floated soo long thoguh
[00:32] <WillTablet> Don't most of them only last a few days?
[00:32] <mfa298> magic
[00:32] <enkidu> probably chinese manufacturer made to thick foil
[00:32] <crash_18974> it's on turtles
[00:32] <fsphil> some might have, but batteries ran out in the tracker
[00:32] <mfa298> it's not latex so it doesnt degrade as quickly
[00:32] <fsphil> so even if they did float for weeks we'd never have known
[00:33] <fsphil> also these two have been doing circles, so keeping within receiver range for longer
[00:33] <mfa298> but mostly magic, no one knows how Leo has acheived such results
[00:33] <WillTablet> Don't most foil floaters only last a few days? Also who launched it?
[00:33] <enkidu> leo
[00:34] <enkidu> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/
[00:34] <fsphil> the hab witch doctor
[00:34] <Maxell> I have a dream, that someday HABs will bumd into eachother, and the 434 Mhz is full of RTTY and DomEX beacons.
[00:34] <WillTablet> Was it one with a fancy altitude limiting thing
[00:34] <Maxell> s/bumd/bump/
[00:34] <mfa298> most foil floaters have been lower and so seem to be more affected by things (rising and falling - like b-11 did for a few hours at the start)
[00:36] <crash_18974> is it the general consensus that the light weight was a/the key?
[00:36] <PE2G8915> B-11 and B-12 are "above the weather"
[00:36] <WillTablet> enkidu that link's dead
[00:36] <WillTablet> So why is it floating longer than other foils?
[00:36] <mfa298> light weight has allowed them to float higher which has made it more stable
[00:37] <enkidu> WillTablet: works for me
[00:37] <crash_18974> so there's no phase change liquid in them at all right??
[00:37] <mfa298> WillTablet: previous foils have been 4-5km so are much more affected by the weather, which has contributed to them coming down
[00:38] <mfa298> foil balloons can also be much harder to fill accurately
[00:39] <enkidu> mfa298: not really
[00:39] Black_Phoenix (~phoenix@ip-6317.proline.net.ua) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[00:39] <enkidu> it is just problem in adjusting free lift
[00:39] <mfa298> latex balloons can have 10s or 100s grams free lift and float, for the pico's it's more like 1gram of free lift
[00:44] <WillTablet> I had an idea which is probably stupid but could rtty be slowed down with a shift register?
[00:48] <PE2G8915> I'm off now, goodnight
[00:49] <ike> WillTablet why do you need that
[00:49] PE2G8915 (Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) left #highaltitude.
[00:50] <ike> why do you need slow rtty
[00:50] <WillTablet> Well, if you had something only stable at high baud rates or with a 300baud minimum, you could slow it down
[00:51] <WillTablet> 50 baud is presumably easier to decode
[00:51] <adamgreig> hmm
[00:51] <adamgreig> well like
[00:52] <adamgreig> kinda yes
[00:52] <adamgreig> you want a divider chip rather than a shift register really
[00:52] <adamgreig> and you will struggle
[00:52] <adamgreig> because of the way that serial has start and stop bits
[00:52] <adamgreig> and so i think you need to ensure you output the data bit from each byte, rather than the start/stop bits
[00:52] <adamgreig> which is going to be an annoying sync problem
[00:59] ike (~Miranda@78-130-179-217.vipnetbg.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[01:01] beingaware (~aware@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[01:12] MIG-29 (bc199703@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.25.151.3) joined #highaltitude.
[01:35] MIG-29 (bc199703@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.25.151.3) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[01:35] <enkidu> need narrowband antenna amplifier
[01:36] KiwiDean (~Thunderbi@186.153.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #highaltitude.
[01:58] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[02:11] <Maxell> enkidu: get habamp
[02:12] <Maxell> it's 70cm filter and LNA
[02:12] <Maxell> how narrow band needs it to be?
[02:12] <Maxell> Any why isn't some LNA suffcient?
[02:21] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[02:32] kd2eat (Hojnowski@cpe-24-59-92-120.twcny.res.rr.com) left #highaltitude.
[02:33] <enkidu> I got some tv amplifier but It gave only noise
[02:33] <enkidu> alno, now I work only with antenna
[02:34] <enkidu> still noisy, but $$B-11,5427,023102,54.9r.a1,21.5556S,782,O1,nPon-ab0-X aU
[02:34] <enkidu> why fldigi cannot just capture frow rtlsdr
[02:38] <enkidu> also: pulseaudio loopback massively sucks
[02:39] <enkidu> $$B-11,5430,023834,54.8919I21.5403,8W62,10,-3Lb3.59,0*6aac
[02:39] <enkidu> 3.59V
[02:51] DarkCow (~DarkCow@cpc22-acto3-2-0-cust128.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[03:04] spacekitteh (~quassel@unaffiliated/traumapony) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[03:04] spacekitteh (~quassel@124-171-225-254.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[03:04] spacekitteh (~quassel@124-171-225-254.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc: Changing host
[03:04] spacekitteh (~quassel@unaffiliated/traumapony) joined #highaltitude.
[03:15] <Maxell> enkidu: it can not because you didn't implement it yet.
[03:15] <Maxell> pulseaudio local monitor is fine.
[03:16] <Maxell> For some reason I think this is PEBKAC.
[03:16] <enkidu> yes, especially, when it throws all stored samples at a time to fldigi
[03:17] <Maxell> Is your computer powerful suffcient for the job? SDR and DomEX DSP might require some juice
[03:18] <enkidu> double core athlon 64?
[03:18] <Maxell> hehe, the neighbours installed a tv amplifier. I can now recieve PAL audio with rubber duckie
[03:19] <Maxell> enkidu: if you listen to audio does it have hickups?
[03:20] <enkidu> no
[03:20] <enkidu> only monitor stream has
[03:20] <Maxell> That should not happen.
[03:20] <Maxell> Even if you close dl-fldigi is it still laggy?
[03:21] DL7AD (6d2d03e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.45.3.231) joined #highaltitude.
[03:21] <enkidu> then I have nothing to measure
[03:21] <enkidu> still, load is low por this machine
[03:22] <enkidu> for*
[03:22] <DL7AD> good morning
[03:22] <enkidu> hello
[03:22] <Maxell> oh right
[03:22] <Maxell> time for sleepz
[03:22] <enkidu> whole night listening of B-11 tweets and nothing decoded :(
[03:26] <DL7AD> b-12 should be wake up now, right?
[03:26] <enkidu> in minutes, need to precharge its battery
[03:26] <DL7AD> yesterday it woke up at this time
[03:27] <enkidu> i have something on waterfall
[03:30] <DL7AD> of b-12?
[03:30] <enkidu> no, just noise...
[03:31] <DL7AD> could you receive b-12 if its active?
[03:32] <enkidu> in theory I am in its range
[03:32] <enkidu> in practise, I cannot decode B-11 beeps because of some distortions
[03:33] <enkidu> and also noise level
[03:33] <DL7AD> where are you stay?
[03:33] <enkidu> gdansk, pl
[03:34] <DL7AD> ah okay. you are right now under b12
[03:34] <DL7AD> yes that should work
[03:34] <DL7AD> im also waiting for it. but im unsure if i can receive it here in north berlin
[03:34] <enkidu> for you it may be easier than for me
[03:35] <DL7AD> why?
[03:36] <enkidu> noise too high for reception
[03:36] <enkidu> Ive seen every single packet sent by B-11
[03:36] <enkidu> and while B-12 was passing over me i got only one
[03:37] <DL7AD> the problem i have is, that im currently portable
[03:37] <DL7AD> no high antenna.
[03:38] <enkidu> I got yagi out the window
[03:39] <enkidu> also slim-jim
[03:42] <DL7AD> oh i made a mistake. yesterday b-12 woke up at 7:17 utc. so i belived i have to wake up two hours before (timezone). no i was incorrect. its two hours in the incorrect direction!
[03:51] DL7AD (6d2d03e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.45.3.231) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[03:51] <enkidu> end of night propagation, nothing to decode
[04:02] crash_18974_ (~crash_@2605:8900:1000:1001:8:0:e:2) joined #highaltitude.
[04:05] crash_18974 (~crash_@2605:8900:1000:1001:8:0:e:2) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[04:05] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[04:18] <enkidu> i can see beeps that could be B-12, but they are appearing rarely. seems, that fixing gps is still killing its battery
[04:22] <enkidu> DECODED <3
[04:22] <enkidu> at last
[04:23] <enkidu> most symbolic is that it is over my home town
[04:41] <enkidu> no signs of 12 tho
[04:44] beingaware (~aware@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[05:17] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[05:17] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:33] seventeen (021bf710@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.27.247.16) joined #highaltitude.
[05:49] kpiman (56933dd5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.147.61.213) joined #highaltitude.
[05:51] DL1SGP (d90fa38e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.163.142) joined #highaltitude.
[05:52] <DL1SGP> morning folks
[05:56] mattltm (~mattltm@86.156.246.125) joined #highaltitude.
[05:59] <DL1SGP> good morning matt
[06:00] G3XVL_Chris (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.101.129.74) joined #highaltitude.
[06:00] <mattltm> Morning :)
[06:00] <mattltm> Hows things?
[06:02] <mclane> good morning dl1sgp
[06:02] <mclane> I assume that you are from Germany?
[06:30] Martin_G4FUI (~Martin@mjrigby.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[06:35] beingaware (~aware@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[06:38] klepko (d41aa57c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.26.165.124) joined #highaltitude.
[06:40] klepko (d41aa57c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.26.165.124) left irc: Client Quit
[06:46] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[06:49] <enkidu> anyone alive?
[06:52] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:55] <Mik_WD8MNV> is B-11 awake?
[06:55] <darkstar-20011> Maybe. Its hard to tell......
[07:01] <darkstar-20011> (sorry - that was in answer to @enkidu, no idea about B-11)
[07:05] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:08] onariz (~onariz@dab-crx1-h-1-5.dab.02.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:10] <DL1SGP> you are correct on that point mclane and equally good morning to you
[07:10] <DL1SGP> just came back from a walk with the dog
[07:10] <DL1SGP> now time for breakfast
[07:13] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) joined #highaltitude.
[07:13] Penfold (~mike@iannos.altrion.org) joined #highaltitude.
[07:17] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[07:18] onariz (~onariz@dab-crx1-h-1-5.dab.02.net) left irc: Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi
[07:19] <craag> Morning all
[07:22] DL7AD (2552fd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.82.253.110) joined #highaltitude.
[07:22] <DL7AD> good morning
[07:23] eroomde (~ed@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:24] SQ9MDD (bc92b73c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.146.183.60) joined #highaltitude.
[07:27] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[07:30] <enkidu> B11 is awake, at sunrise I lost track of it tho (forest at line of sight)
[07:30] <enkidu> B12 - dont know
[07:31] <enkidu> also, i have just finished antenna filter able to kill FM intermodulation. Fits in F plug size pipe
[07:32] vladimirek (~vladimire@95.105.250.72) joined #highaltitude.
[07:35] <enkidu> DL7AD: do you know what frequency is SP3 loon?
[07:35] vladimirek (~vladimire@95.105.250.72) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[07:36] Hix (~Hix@149.241.238.10) joined #highaltitude.
[07:38] <DL7AD> what is SP3 loon?
[07:38] <DL7AD> enkidu
[07:39] DutchMillbt (3e2d8485@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.45.132.133) joined #highaltitude.
[07:39] <mclane> question to the DLxxx people: is it hard to get a german amateur licence? Do I need to become member of DARC for that?
[07:39] <enkidu> sp3osj/03
[07:40] <DL7AD> no you dont need to be member of darc
[07:40] <DL7AD> bundesnetzargentur is doing the tests
[07:41] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) joined #highaltitude.
[07:41] <LeoBodnar> good morning
[07:42] <DL7AD> class E contains around 800 questions. class A 1200. they are really technique with many calculations (calculate gain of transistor circuits eg)
[07:42] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar good morning
[07:43] <DL7AD> im going to try now to receive b-12
[07:44] <mclane> DL7AD: can you recommend a book or online learning?
[07:44] <Hix> morning
[07:45] number10 (519a08fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.8.252) joined #highaltitude.
[07:46] vladimirek (~vladimire@95.105.250.72) joined #highaltitude.
[07:46] <enkidu> hello leo. whole night, one point
[07:46] vladimirek (~vladimire@95.105.250.72) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[07:47] <LeoBodnar> somebody got B-12?
[07:47] <LeoBodnar> just now?
[07:47] DL7AD (2552fd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.82.253.110) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[07:47] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: I am so sorry, you must be a bit disappointed
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> What was the problem with Rx?
[07:48] <enkidu> a little. Dont know, why decoding failed
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> Did you post waterfall pictures?
[07:48] <enkidu> I could hear every tone clearly. probably something with pulseaudio
[07:48] <enkidu> no, was fighting with antenna
[07:48] <enkidu> B12 is in my region again
[07:48] <mikestir> enkidu: I've encountered pulseaudio slowing down the sample rate
[07:49] <mikestir> just very slightly, so that 50 baud decodes ok if you set fldigi to 45
[07:49] <LeoBodnar> what is pulseaudio?
[07:49] <enkidu> I should start with alsa again. less overhead, more reliability
[07:49] G-SP9UOB (561abae9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.26.186.233) joined #highaltitude.
[07:49] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: thing you should avoid in linux
[07:49] <mikestir> I ended up using an analogue loopback cable
[07:49] <G-SP9UOB> Morning All :-)
[07:49] <enkidu> mikestir: this is what I made
[07:49] <mikestir> LeoBodnar: it's the audio subsystem used in most modern linux distros
[07:50] <mikestir> it's can do software routing between applications like virtual audio cable, which would be great if it didn't corrupt the audio!
[07:50] <number10> morning G-SP9UOB
[07:50] <LeoBodnar> I even sometime have good decodes from built-in mike picking up built-in speakers output
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> Morning G-SP9UOB
[07:51] <G-SP9UOB> number10:, LeoBodnar Hi :-)
[07:51] <darkstar-20011> I wish it had a raw file input (from a pipe) rather than having to use pulseaudio.
[07:51] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: I managet to fit double-T fm trap inside AAA size cylinder
[07:51] <enkidu> darkstar-20011: it should capture raw from usb
[07:51] <enkidu> need only frequency setting
[07:52] <LeoBodnar> Nice, do you have pictures?
[07:52] SQ5NWI (53096159@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.9.97.89) joined #highaltitude.
[07:52] <darkstar-20011> I have a couple of gnuradio flowgraphs before that.
[07:52] <G-SP9UOB> LeoBodnar: I'll be looking for B's from the plane ;-)
[07:52] <enkidu> unfortunately not, my camera was borrowed by my friend and my cell phone died
[07:53] <LeoBodnar> Wait, B-12 only travelled 20 miles in 12 hours?
[07:54] <enkidu> it made small loop over Gdansk
[07:54] DL7AD (2552fd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.82.253.110) joined #highaltitude.
[07:54] <enkidu> also there was nearly no wind here, also in higher atmosphere
[07:54] <DL7AD> i could not hear b-12
[07:55] <DL7AD> in berlin
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> It's almost at 9500m
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> 9450m
[07:56] <enkidu> pretty high, hope it will not explode
[07:56] noname (541f040f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.31.4.15) joined #highaltitude.
[07:56] <SQ9MDD> nice $$B-11,5554,075507,52.9357,21.0108,9104,7,4,3.89,0.68*3b1
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> Oh atmosphere, I never understood you.
[07:56] <G-SP9UOB> Ok, its time for breakfast :-)
[07:56] <G-SP9UOB> CU ALL
[07:56] G-SP9UOB (561abae9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.26.186.233) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[07:56] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) joined #highaltitude.
[07:58] <LeoBodnar> Flight times: B-11 159 hours, B-12 134 hours
[07:58] <SQ5NWI> Hi. I just joined. What's wrong with B-11 posits? GPS issue? Packets are decoded fine, but no posits update on the map and the last is from the future. :-(
[07:58] <enkidu> SQ5NWI: log
[07:58] <enkidu> balloons are dumping time, but no day
[07:58] <LeoBodnar> SQ5NWI: this is the website presentation problem. It will be fixed hopefully
[07:58] <eroomde> arko i explaining that there are two timezones within him, brain and stomach
[07:59] <LeoBodnar> Running at different clock rates
[08:00] <enkidu> so its time to tirn yagi north again
[08:00] <enkidu> turn*
[08:00] <eroomde> gonna try and fully adjust it with a full english brunch
[08:00] <LeoBodnar> SQ5NWI: so repeating log entries had to be manually fixed
[08:01] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[08:01] <SQ5NWI> Thank you LeoBodnar. Fortunately all is OK in payload telemetry stats on habitat. What an amazing flight this B-11 which I can hear now and B-12 which is tofar for me... so far at least ;-)
[08:01] DL7AD (2552fd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.82.253.110) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[08:02] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[08:02] <LeoBodnar> sometimes I feel like my stomach lives on the North Pole
[08:03] <eroomde> constantly needing animal fat?
[08:04] <LeoBodnar> Demanding food at any time of day/night
[08:05] <LeoBodnar> Lack of listeners caused deeper discharge of B-11
[08:05] <eroomde> QED
[08:06] <SQ5NWI> Last sequence of packets was crazy with distance changing from ~90km to more than 1000km between each other... And this sequence was realy long. I've counted 26 packets sent continously one by one.
[08:07] <enkidu> it is log
[08:07] <LeoBodnar> It's log from the past position SQ5NWI (repeats)
[08:08] <fsphil> leo drawing a mess on the map again? :)
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> This is how we know it was over the Bay of Biscay on the first night and Baltic Sea positions on the map. You can probably see they have 2 hour spaced point
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> They were plotted retrospectively from the log
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> doodling fsphil :D
[08:09] <DL1SGP> and back from breakfast
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> Good thing it will only lats for another day
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> *last
[08:11] <fsphil> cleaned it up a bit
[08:11] <Darkside> its still going...
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> Whoa! that was quick fsphil :)
[08:11] <fsphil> they're both still going
[08:11] <fsphil> madness :)
[08:12] <Darkside> what is it up to now?
[08:12] <LeoBodnar> Flight times: B-11 159 hours, B-12 134 hours
[08:12] <LeoBodnar> Lucky timing for the conference :)
[08:13] <Darkside> jez
[08:13] <Darkside> jeez
[08:13] <SQ5NWI> Clear. Thank you. Now it is approaching to me more and more. Maybe I'll be able to see it! ;-)
[08:13] <Darkside> well you've blowk the amateur duration record out of the water
[08:16] <enkidu> Ill be able to start capturing, when it pass Jastarnia
[08:16] <enkidu> 3 sides - hills
[08:16] <DL1SGP> B-12 seems to try eagerly to fly back to you LeoBodnar, I fear atmosphere won't let him, eventually he will get emo and crash somewherein suicidal manner
[08:16] <DL1SGP> good morning enkidu nice reading you again
[08:17] <enkidu> so your sleep is over? :)
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> Could somebody explain why NOAA put starting point with GPS coordinates 55.1448 18.7933 over Gdansk while it is in fact over Baltic Sea? compare http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/17684_trj001.gif
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> vs https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=+55.1448,18.7933&hl=en&ll=55.14121,18.808594&spn=7.087812,19.753418&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=7.48912,19.753418&t=m&z=6
[08:17] Babs___ (~babs@cpc16-dals15-2-0-cust292.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:17] <DL1SGP> it has been over for about 3 hours enkidu
[08:18] <enkidu> i would call it "nap"
[08:18] <mikestir> LeoBodnar: different datum? although it does seem a bit far away
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> DL1SGP: two hippy balloons
[08:18] <enkidu> red trajectory was close
[08:19] <LeoBodnar> Always used the same procedure with NOAA and alway had a perfect match
[08:19] <DL1SGP> yeah saw you earlier on Vidablick LeoBodnar had to leave for morning routines though
[08:19] Tramvai (50eb2c78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.235.44.120) joined #highaltitude.
[08:20] <LeoBodnar> Sorry, I got it wrong! Missed the Black Star
[08:20] <LeoBodnar> Please ignore the NOAA question
[08:20] Action: DL1SGP ignores
[08:20] <Tramvai> I return yet again, with no success on my quest. Could someone please link me to a complete tutorial or an example code for setting up and polling the Upu's uBlox6 GPS with Arduino?
[08:22] PH3V (~PH3V@ip565723e4.direct-adsl.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[08:22] <eroomde> i think none exists because the view taken (as discussed yesterday) is that there's a lot of value in not just spoon feeding the complete solution to people, and that they should go away and learn a bit of programming and learn a bit of electronics and then come back
[08:22] <LeoBodnar> Tramvai: https://github.com/Upuaut/Ava/tree/master/fc0335_PavaR7_PAVA_550
[08:22] <eroomde> all the said
[08:23] <eroomde> github.com/habduino
[08:23] <eroomde> that*
[08:23] G4BWR_mark (2e218f57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.33.143.87) joined #highaltitude.
[08:23] <eroomde> /curmudgeon
[08:24] <Tramvai> LeoBodnar: And that's only GPS? 950 lines? :/
[08:25] <LeoBodnar> It's the full code.
[08:26] <LeoBodnar> s/\//)/
[08:26] <Tramvai> I can't even come close to comprehending all that
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[08:27] benoxley (~Ben@66.172.10.141) joined #highaltitude.
[08:27] <enkidu> I see some pulses
[08:27] F5MVO (52e6b25d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.178.93) joined #highaltitude.
[08:27] <eroomde> Tramvai: it will take you like several days of study
[08:28] <Tramvai> Is setting up GPS really that difficult? Hasn't someone built a simple library for it?
[08:28] <eroomde> how do you know how difficult it is?
[08:29] <eroomde> you just said you don't understand it
[08:29] <Tramvai> Exactly
[08:30] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[08:30] <Hix> Tramvai: you should read up on the UBX protocol
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> GPS isn't really hard - it's processing a simple line of text
[08:30] <Hix> you can poll the gps for exactly the informtion you want
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> For NMEA at least
[08:31] <Hix> Tramvai: read this properly and you should find all you need is there http://goo.gl/a8nq4P
[08:31] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Again - awesome. As is the 'play back logs' idea.
[08:31] mclane (uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left #highaltitude.
[08:32] spacekitteh (~quassel@unaffiliated/traumapony) left irc: Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.
[08:32] mazzanet (~mazzanet@unaffiliated/mazzanet) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[08:32] homewld (5698ccd9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.152.204.217) joined #highaltitude.
[08:33] spacekitteh (~quassel@124-171-225-254.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[08:33] spacekitteh (~quassel@124-171-225-254.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc: Changing host
[08:33] spacekitteh (~quassel@unaffiliated/traumapony) joined #highaltitude.
[08:33] <LeoBodnar> It's so awesome it even has a proper bug coded in SpeedEvil :)
[08:33] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: was this one done in assembly?
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> What's the bug?
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Did your local interference go away?
[08:33] <LeoBodnar> Of course Darkside
[08:34] <enkidu> in youur face, b-12!
[08:34] <enkidu> $$B-12,26,083331,54.9353,18.3615,9439,6,-5,3.96,0.62*ea10
[08:34] <enkidu> just doubled decoded packet amount
[08:34] <LeoBodnar> SpeedEvil: you can only see 26 entries out of 64 (~2 days out 5) worth of log
[08:34] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Ah
[08:35] mazzanet (~mazzanet@unaffiliated/mazzanet) joined #highaltitude.
[08:35] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[08:35] <SpeedEvil> Also - hello to all our new polish people! :)
[08:35] <LeoBodnar> Lol enkidu , persistence pays off
[08:35] <PE2G> enkidu: Good to see you tracking. Congratulations!
[08:36] <enkidu> I had to trim my antenna boom and remove reflectors, but was worth it
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:36] <PE2G> enkidu: Well done
[08:36] <LeoBodnar> This was mentioned at the conference yesterday - ballooning made europe come together.
[08:36] <LeoBodnar> That's the spirit!
[08:37] <enkidu> I will mount next antenna on roof but will need place little higher
[08:37] DL7AD (2552fd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.82.253.110) joined #highaltitude.
[08:38] <PE2G> enkidu: Height is everything, that's my antenna credo :)
[08:39] <enkidu> now little abowe noise level
[08:39] <enkidu> also I cannot tilt it to aim higher
[08:41] Babs___ (~babs@cpc16-dals15-2-0-cust292.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi
[08:42] <enkidu> I have also far reception of 11
[08:42] F5MVO (52e6b25d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.178.93) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:43] <enkidu> should I enable DSP filtering in domino options?
[08:48] <PE2G> enkidu: I had it always on. Haven't experimented with Options though
[08:53] RocketBoy (~steverand@0541e4b5.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:53] RocketBoy (~steverand@0541e4b5.skybroadband.com) left irc: Client Quit
[08:57] <enkidu> PE2G: 1.2 bandwidth?
[08:58] <enkidu> elevation changable
[09:00] <SpeedEvil> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18894_trj001.gif b11 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18966_trj001.gif - b12
[09:00] <PE2G> I have Filter bandwidth factor at 2.0
[09:01] <fsphil> both heading for china
[09:03] ibanezmatt13 (569b6ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.155.106.231) joined #highaltitude.
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[09:03] <fsphil> so it is
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> are you homr fsphil ?
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> home*
[09:04] <fsphil> nah, still in greenwich
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[09:04] <mclane> so the Chinese will copy them ;-)
[09:04] <fsphil> not sure what to do today
[09:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi, what freq is SP3OSJ on?
[09:04] <fsphil> might visit the nat history museum
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: have you been around London yet?
[09:05] <fsphil> on previous visits yea, but not this time
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> go look at the Olympic stadium :)
[09:05] <fsphil> ah yes, that's new
[09:05] <Hix> whats left of it
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> well, yeah but still very impressive
[09:05] <Hix> though its easy to get to from CuttySark on the DLR
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> Hix: were you at the conference?
[09:06] <Hix> yup
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> I think I messed you
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> missed
[09:06] <Hix> oh, you were there?
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> of course :)
[09:06] <eroomde> the only englishman who attempted to speak french to alain
[09:06] <Hix> bugger, sorry dude
[09:06] <Hix> :)
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> haha, no probs
[09:06] SQ9MDD (bc92b73c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.146.183.60) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[09:07] <Hix> Inernational Conference eroomde :D
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> was that you Hix who started speaking to Alain in French from the back?
[09:07] <Hix> I was the one who rolled in late mid -JGC talk
[09:07] <Hix> yes ibanezmatt13
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[09:08] <Hix> it was a good day, still trying to process a lot of the info. Mostly Eds info
[09:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I was tying knots while Ed was demonstrating
[09:08] <Hix> but Alain had some really good concepts
[09:08] <Hix> my brain was too
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> he did, I can't believe there was a translator there :)
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> well, native french speaker but still
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> From what Alain was demonstrating, I was amazed when he said it got to 30km. Then I thought, "did he mean 3km?"
[09:10] <Hix> next year we need it lik ethe UN where everyone is plugged into translators via headsets
[09:10] <SpeedEvil> looks like b11 is going off the coast of Egypt and then towards the Caspian sea. b12 goes to the Caspian much more directly
[09:10] <enkidu> wonderwhat will be SP3OSJ trajectory
[09:10] <Hix> SpeedEvil: reckon we can rope NATO into a spot of HAB tracking?
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> They're fantastic flights of Leo's. Is that a new distance record then? (I think that was mentioned)
[09:11] <Hix> Atlantic surely pips it still?
[09:11] <eroomde> yeah
[09:11] oe6rke_ (~Android@089144192054.atnat0001.highway.a1.net) joined #highaltitude.
[09:11] <eroomde> distance travelled maybe
[09:11] <eroomde> but distance from launch site no
[09:11] <fsphil> if it gets to china, yea
[09:11] mattltm_alt (~mattltm@host109-158-2-28.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:11] <fsphil> but we'll never know
[09:12] <fsphil> it could make it
[09:12] <SpeedEvil> om1ats in slovakia _might_ pick up B12 if it goes a little east of projection - continuing more on its present course.
[09:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> one thing is for sure, Leo´s flights really pulled the european tracker team together.
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> I found that DominoEX quite interesting yesterday looking at your laptop fsphil (I'm assuming it was yours.) It had a lot more tones than RTTY and looked cool. What transmitter do you generally use for this?
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> And is that legal in the UK?
[09:14] <SpeedEvil> Though i think it's more likely that we'll last hear from it from someone in the southeast of poland. (assuming no more trackers pop up)
[09:14] <fsphil> any mode is legal on 434mhz as long as you're doing 10mw and stay within the allowed bandwidth
[09:14] <mfa298> we ought to be able to get china involved it's not like they have a shortage of rtl dongles :p
[09:14] mattltm (~mattltm@86.156.246.125) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[09:14] <Hix> we were discussing your handle last night ibanezmatt13 is it pronounced Aibanez as in the guitar?
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> yes Hix :)
[09:15] eroomde (~ed@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: eroomde
[09:15] <Hix> cool - ok - no face to put to the name but at least I can pronounce it
[09:15] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Is there any limit you can think of other than the battery and balloon? (admittedly they are pretty big limits)
[09:15] PA1SDB (52aaa392@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.170.163.146) joined #highaltitude.
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> Hix: Have you not seen my NORB videos?
[09:15] Black_Phoenix (~phoenix@ip-6317.proline.net.ua) joined #highaltitude.
[09:15] <Mik_WD8MNV> is the 434 MHz freq european, or worldwide?
[09:15] <Hix> nope
[09:16] <ibanezmatt13> wait one sec
[09:16] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you can do DominoEX with the ntx2 although any drift is going to kill it. The new ntx2b should solve that
[09:16] <fsphil> Mik_WD8MNV: european only I believe
[09:16] <ibanezmatt13> ah cool, I may look into it
[09:16] <ibanezmatt13> Hix: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kgmm55v1wqyoolf/yZJNP4WAbt
[09:17] <mfa298> it's a bit more complex to setup but seems to be the way people are going.
[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> The m4v video is the main flight video. And the launch video is here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kgmm55v1wqyoolf/lYjFD-_Od0/Video%2024-08-2013%2011%2043%2016.mov
[09:17] <fsphil> I did try wit hthe ntx2, it wasn't reliable enough
[09:17] <fsphil> the shift of the ntx2 changes a bit with temperature too
[09:18] <fsphil> which would pretty much kill dominoex
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'll stick to 50 baud RTTY for now, still learning
[09:18] <PA1SDB> Hallo, where can I find the frequency or aditional info about SP3OSJ ?
[09:18] <fsphil> hopefully the ntx2b is better
[09:18] <fsphil> PA1SDB: it seems to be on 437.7 mhz USB, according to the flight doc
[09:19] <LeoBodnar> SpeedEvil: I honestly have not even a rough idea. Previous flights were 1-2 days with one super long one of almost 3 days. These two are pushing almost a week. We have never flown LiPo for more than a few hours in the cold.
[09:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:19] <LeoBodnar> So it's a new territory. Experiment and observe mode I suppose. And try to explain what we see.
[09:19] <PA1SDB> fsphil Tnx, and mode ?
[09:19] <Hix> cheers ibanezmatt13
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> It looks i guess like B11s battery has major self discharge, as well as tiny capacity.
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> And probably high esR
[09:21] <Hix> PA1SDB: SP3OSJ: 437.700 MHz USB, RTTY 50 Baud, 470 Hz Shift 7N2
[09:21] <LeoBodnar> Overnight and daytime temperatures are dropping as well.
[09:21] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the thing to do first is read up on DominoEX and just work out roughly what you need to do. It's a very interesting mode when you start looking at how it works.
[09:21] <LeoBodnar> Regular x-f website plug for telemetry : http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/055a7e5147d3a7258f07a652d4cda64c
[09:21] <Hix> PA1SDB: `Launch pad: Pila (JO83JE) 53.185169,16.752810
[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: yeah I'm currently reading some info on it. Were you at the conf?
[09:22] <PA1SDB> O.K. tnx Hix !
[09:22] <Hix> nps
[09:22] <mfa298> I was I was in the front row with the tablet trying to record stuff
[09:23] <mfa298> and helping craag with the foundation exam
[09:23] <fsphil> PA1SDB: rtty. hit auto-configure in dl-fldigi and it should setup all the rtty parameters automatically
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I didn't see you. (Well, didn't know who you were) :)
[09:23] <DL1SGP> goedenmorgen PA1SDB
[09:23] <fsphil> connecting faces / names / callsigns / IRC nicks is tricky
[09:24] <fsphil> I'd be talking away to someone then 5 minutes later realise who they where
[09:24] <Hix> i miseed you too mfa298
[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, hence why I introduced myself fsphil despite the badge :)
[09:25] <PA1SDB> Hallo DL1SGP, ook goedenmorgen :-)
[09:25] <Hix> I reckon the name badges should have been nick in large bold with real name below :)
[09:25] <mfa298> there were a lot of people there to try and work out who they were
[09:25] <fsphil> hah
[09:25] <fsphil> yes
[09:25] <fsphil> craag had the right idea
[09:25] <mfa298> I only knew a couple of people before getting there
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> Well, mine did say on the bottom "team NORB" :)
[09:26] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It seems to be possible to get hysplit to tell you mm/hr precipitation along the trajectory - select 'rainfall' down the bottom at the page and then look at the trajectory dump
[09:26] <SpeedEvil> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/tdump.19318.txt
[09:26] <mfa298> I think that's the standard Uni club thing now, get polos with name/ nicknames etc for the club
[09:26] <SpeedEvil> 1 1 13 9 8 8 0 8 0.0 54.936 18.381 8255.6 358.6 0.0
[09:26] <PA1SDB> <PA1SDB> test
[09:27] <SpeedEvil> trajectory 1, at 2013 9th mothh 8 day 8:00 Am sequence number lat lon meters pressure rainfall
[09:28] <SpeedEvil> I think this means that B11 will see no rain over the next few days
[09:28] <SpeedEvil> Of course, rainfall may happen starting below 10km
[09:28] <SpeedEvil> which you don't care so much about
[09:29] <enkidu> also, rain over 7km is not intensive
[09:29] <enkidu> few drops per square meter
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> well - yes - but 'intensive' - and 'needs 2g or so to make the balloon sink
[09:31] <ibanezmatt13> Arko's presentation was very interesting about hot/cold HABs
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> it would be interesting to experiemnt with 'windscreen clearing' coatings on the balloon
[09:31] <mfa298> I wonder if B12 does head for china if there's any chance of the winds taking it south to Australia.
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> And, i guess a helium leak detector to see if the valve is actually leaking anything or if it's all coming out the sides. That gets rather more exotic though
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> Especially if you use one of the mass-spec sort
[09:32] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[09:32] ibanezmatt13 (569b6ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.155.106.231) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[09:32] <enkidu> I think that small amounts of water would evaporate also, its still 2 km above magic 7
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> small water won't evaporate if it's actually raining.
[09:33] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> small amounts
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> - B10 went up and came back down again due to rain
[09:34] <SpeedEvil> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/
[09:34] <enkidu> balloon surface is little warmer than sorrounding. also - there is still option "measure humidity"
[09:34] <SpeedEvil> 'Balloon still has original free lift which implies that there was no Helium loss at float altitude.'
[09:35] ibanezmatt13 (569b6ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.155.106.231) joined #highaltitude.
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Oh - sure. It's just that in principle if you can predict the trajectory, you might consider not launching if it's going to hit heavy rain
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Or adjusting the float height
[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> Say I wanted to make a GPS logger for a bike or something, what would be a good antenna to use? Would the chip antennas be ok?
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> sure.
[09:36] <enkidu> ibanezmatt13: chip antenna or if it is bigger thing you can use small helix
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> they're not quite as sensitive as bigger ones - but bikes are usually on more open space
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> And you don't care about indoor locks.
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> ok, and what's the crack with putting it on a PCB. Is there a certain type of ground plane method to use?
[09:38] <fsphil> yea, don't
[09:38] SQ5NWI (53096159@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.9.97.89) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[09:38] <fsphil> a ground plane near it will cause trouble
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, that's confusing because all the other antennas I've used have their own ground plane
[09:40] <LeoBodnar> SpeedEvil: I tried that but I had weird output from HySplit
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> I spoke to KT5TK about GPS jumps problem and he had exactly the same issues. Even though we use completely different software and hardware approach.
[09:42] <enkidu> I like this domino mode. signal is nearly invisible on waterfall and it still decodes
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It's not checksum issues - the GPS is actually saying it's at those positions?
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> He cuts GPS power and uses UART to parse data. I use software sleep mode and I2C to poll for data.
[09:43] <LeoBodnar> It has valid lock and time and everything but random position jums.
[09:43] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: gps is also vulnerable to some interferences
[09:43] PA1SDB (52aaa392@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.170.163.146) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[09:43] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Have you looked at DOP outputs? or EPE?
[09:43] <enkidu> we had valid lock and position but strange time
[09:43] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: I have the same effect with gps interference with my Kenwood TH-D72
[09:44] <LeoBodnar> I have not sent them with telemetry but KT5TK mentioned that these jumps are quite sticky and persist for relatively long time (minutes?)
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> So it's not corrupted GPS sentence or one sentence glitch
[09:45] <LeoBodnar> Which implies GPS core system as a source of the problem
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Is this the same as the altitude noise visible in the trajectory? Or is that just really bad
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> altitude estimaton
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> It coincides with altitude jumps
[09:46] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: I had sometimes offset on non uB devices
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> So it assumes it's on the ground (ish) with a screwed up position?
[09:46] ibanezmatt13 (569b6ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.155.106.231) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[09:47] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[09:48] <enkidu> gps base is time computing. gps signal contains also so called almanac
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> Almanac should be stored
[09:49] <enkidu> it is, but also it is updated often
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> ephemirides are updated often
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> almanac not quite so much
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> Almanac is on a 12.5 min cycle
[09:50] <enkidu> PSN may be decoded badly too
[09:51] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: Is it possible to retrieve that flight over Gulf of Mexico when GPS was doing the jumps?
[09:56] <enkidu> 4.03V
[09:56] wolfbl (4fc60ed5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.198.14.213) joined #highaltitude.
[09:57] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: if you have used panels similar to these used by sp3osj you'd have higher voltage and maybe even little power from moonlight
[09:57] <bertrik> moonlight is like half a million times weaker than sunlight
[09:58] <enkidu> it is weak, but Ive had calculator with solar that was running even at candlelight
[09:58] <enkidu> might be enough for ram keeping
[10:03] <enkidu> sp3osj has alkaline battery (it can be recharged few times)
[10:03] <enkidu> lets see, how long it would be able to keep height
[10:04] <seventeen> B11 dropped ballast ?
[10:04] <enkidu> b-12 log time
[10:05] <fsphil> gps glitch seventeen
[10:05] <Hix> fsphil: this looks interesting, right on your doorstep too http://www.rmg.co.uk/visit/events/visions-of-the-universe
[10:06] KiwiDean (~Thunderbi@186.153.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) left irc: Quit: KiwiDean
[10:07] <Hix> ^^ for anyone else still in Greenwich
[10:08] <fsphil> B-12's flitch seems ot happen at the same time each day
[10:08] <fsphil> glitch*
[10:09] <fsphil> Hix: oh yes, forgot about that. seen the poster
[10:09] <Hix> looks like £8 well spent
[10:10] <fsphil> was going to go to the natural history museum but it's about an hour on trains and busses
[10:14] G4AIU-Eugene (5680f20b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.242.11) joined #highaltitude.
[10:17] mattltm_alt (~mattltm@host109-158-2-28.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[10:17] wolfbl (4fc60ed5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.198.14.213) left irc:
[10:17] mattltm (~mattltm@host109-151-39-10.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:17] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[10:18] G4AIU-Eugene (5680f20b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.242.11) left irc: Client Quit
[10:22] Upu2 (~upu@dab-bhx1-h-45-9.dab.02.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:23] <Upu2> morning all
[10:23] <enkidu> not clearly, but its turning nort
[10:23] <enkidu> north
[10:23] <Upu2> hows the B's doing ?
[10:23] <enkidu> b12 over baltic, b11 over warsaw
[10:23] <enkidu> also we got third balloon
[10:23] <Upu2> wow
[10:24] <Upu2> third ?
[10:24] <enkidu> SP3OSJ/03
[10:24] <Upu2> oh yes
[10:24] <Upu2> sorry not done infobox
[10:24] <Upu2> sat on train
[10:25] <enkidu> need help from Denmark and south Sweden
[10:25] <Upu2> was the steaming ok yesterdsy ?
[10:25] <Upu2> we have recievers in Denmark
[10:26] <Upu2> ot1sky
[10:27] <G0TDJ_AFK> Hi Upu2, On your way back?
[10:28] <Upu2> OZ1SKY_Brian, even
[10:28] <Upu2> yup
[10:28] <Upu2> on train
[10:28] <G0TDJ_AFK> I got back to a rather lively Crayford at about 8:30 last night.
[10:28] <enkidu> kobenhavn in range of SP3. 437.700MHz
[10:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Iam ready once in range
[10:29] <enkidu> hope it will pass baltic. it is flying low, 4.3km
[10:29] <fsphil> OZ1SKY_Brian: nothing for ages, then three in a row :)
[10:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes it a stressfull weekend, 3 balloons and smoking stop :-)
[10:30] <Upu2> wireless broken
[10:30] <Upu2> aircon broken
[10:30] <Upu2> go uk
[10:30] <Upu2> oh altitude dropped
[10:30] <fsphil> hah
[10:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so please bare with me :-)
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> B-11 flightpath: Silverstone London Paris Brussels Stuttgart Innsbruck Florence Nice Lyon Frankfurt Rostock Copenhagen Stockholm Ventspils Klaipeda Kaliningrad Warsaw
[10:32] <enkidu> Upu2: it was designed to have pressure valve
[10:34] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] Upu2 (~upu@dab-bhx1-h-45-9.dab.02.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: pressure valve on SP3 balloon?
[10:36] <Mik_WD8MNV> how many hours has B-11 been up?
[10:36] <Laurenceb_> coming up to 1 week
[10:36] oe6rke_ (~Android@089144192054.atnat0001.highway.a1.net) left irc: Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.1.10
[10:36] <enkidu> yes, he decided to keep pressure at minimum
[10:36] <Laurenceb_> 162hours
[10:36] <Laurenceb_> enkidu: interesting
[10:37] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> B-11 countries visited: UK France Belgium Germany Austria Italy Denmark Sweden Latvia Lithuania Russia Poland
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> B-11 162 hours, B-12 137 hours
[10:38] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-233-25.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/11398_trj001.gif
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> B-11 going to Egypt
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> might have reception to midnight
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> Is OBJ talking to you direct or is there a website where his experiments can be followed?
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> if we can find listeners in Greece...
[10:39] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: luxembourg, monaco
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> heh
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> Cheapest way of travel
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> it'd be nice to get to 1 week
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> double the PBH record
[10:43] <Hix> nosebleedkt is Greece isn't he?
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/11562_trj001.gif
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[10:44] <Laurenceb_> Ukraine for B-12 - no listeners there :-/
[10:44] daveake (~androirc@31.221.87.87) joined #highaltitude.
[10:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> whats the exat freq for the SP ballon?
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: calculator by candlelight is somewhat misleading. Firstly, calculators use essentially no power - and are designed to work in dim office light. Secondly - candles have a massive peak in the near-IR which is invisible to the human eye but will power thin film solar cells just fine
[10:46] <enkidu> mcu in sleep mode would not use much power
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> It's a bit of a known unknown at the moment , looks like singularity over Poland - three balloons are all going in different directions
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> NIce snapshot of windspeed though!
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Full moon on a clear night is .25 lux. Sunlight is 120000 lux. So a quarter of a million times less is about right
[10:47] <enkidu> yeah, right
[10:47] <fsphil> my 500 watt PV array doesn't seem to output anything under a full moon
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> You need a bigger solar panel
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Or for perhaps the same area of panels - instead of 30mW, 60nW
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It's not quite that simple - the peak power voltage of a solar panel is the point at which the voltage through the parallel diode draws perhaps 10% of the current.
[10:49] <fsphil> I don't think the power generated by the moonlight can overcome the losses in the diodes
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> SP3 going over Vidablick GT receiver - nice!
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> Just joking
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: For a millionth of the current of nominal, this voltage is not .6V, but more like 0.
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> You can probably hear individual photons noise
[10:50] <enkidu> good point
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> Solar panel also have high leakage current so the generated energy won't even leave the panel
[10:50] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: Flight of Gulf of Mexico. Yes I guess Thomas have the raw data
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: yup
[10:51] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-104-230.static.vivaciti.org) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[10:51] <fsphil> it would need a big lens
[10:51] <fsphil> focus the moonlight from a large area into a cell
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> Or mirror
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> Use half a balloon as a mirror http://amsat-uk.org/2013/09/07/inflatable-antenna-could-give-cubesats-greater-reach/
[10:53] ike (~Miranda@78-130-179-217.vipnetbg.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/11961_trj001.gif
[10:55] <Tramvai> Um, quick question regarding data types on Arduino: what exactly does sprintf do?
[10:55] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: humidity sensor?
[10:55] <Tramvai> sprintf(datastring, Information);
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> I like your thinking Laurenceb_
[10:55] <Laurenceb_> LA to UK picoballoon ^
[10:55] <Tramvai> What data type does 'Information' have to be?
[10:56] <Laurenceb_> have to tell Arko :P
[10:56] <mattbrejza> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstdio/sprintf/
[10:56] <mattbrejza> see examples
[10:57] <Laurenceb_> could set distance record as well
[10:58] <fsphil> guess where arko isn't :)
[10:58] <fsphil> that said at the speed this thing is going, there's plenty of time
[10:58] <Tramvai> mattbrejza: Thanks, but what types does it accept? I can't use a string, what can I use then?
[10:59] <mattbrejza> wht do you actually want to do?
[10:59] <enkidu> cout is for strings
[11:00] <mattbrejza> oh you want to copy one string (say the NMEA lat) into your output telemetry stirng?
[11:00] <ike> Tramvai you can wait for custom bit format
[11:00] <ike> so you can dump raw data
[11:00] <Hix> Tramvai: this is possible the best reference you will get for C https://www.dropbox.com/s/wymely43m11w1r2/K%26R%20The_C_Programming_Language.pdf
[11:01] <mattbrejza> you can use strings http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstdio/printf/
[11:01] <mattbrejza> slightly different function but the usage is the same
[11:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> For the next B launch, we need to hire this http://watercraft.pro/images/stories/07/00/image011.jpg
[11:01] <ike> and server will interpret it for you
[11:01] daveake (~androirc@31.221.87.87) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[11:02] <fsphil> another balloon to track the balloon
[11:02] <fsphil> rinse and repeat
[11:02] <fsphil> 434mhz would be a mess!
[11:03] HeliosFA (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:03] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[11:03] <enkidu> we should use z-wave
[11:03] <enkidu> every device can act a repeater ;)
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> 48 hours prediction for both B-11 and B-12 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12415_trj001.gif
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Shiny - I couldn't be bothered to work out how to get it to do that. :)
[11:04] <enkidu> at last I will be able to spot on radiosondes
[11:04] <ike> btw chinise gsm/gps trackers now cost only $30
[11:04] <enkidu> ;)
[11:04] <LeoBodnar> but worth $3 ike
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> Also - hysplit output reallyhelps with your geography
[11:05] <LeoBodnar> Mine at least was DOA
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> Wait - is latvia above estonia or below...
[11:05] navrac_work (56a5b704@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.165.183.4) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[11:05] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[11:05] <enkidu> latvia above
[11:06] <enkidu> or I am just too tired
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> you need a rest enkidu after that night shift
[11:07] <enkidu> maybe. I got antenna placed well for 3 hours of reception
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> heh B-12 is just hovering
[11:08] <ike> enkidu: every device can act a repeater ;) - how can you put it in low power mode if it act as a repeater?
[11:08] DL7AD (2552fd6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.82.253.110) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Nice vortex: SP3 going North, B-11 South and B-12 staying put
[11:08] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[11:09] sq6cox (4e0837a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.8.55.169) joined #highaltitude.
[11:09] <mikestir> ike: you can't. sensor mesh protocols are a con-trick. the low power and meshing properties are mutually exclusive
[11:10] <LeoBodnar> Is there any way of retrieving receiving stations list from habitat from coordinates?
[11:10] <ike> that is not true, all you need is working atom clock
[11:10] <mikestir> right, and that satisfies the low power requirement how exactly?!
[11:11] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[11:11] mattltm (~mattltm@host109-151-39-10.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[11:11] sq6cox (4e0837a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.8.55.169) left irc: Client Quit
[11:11] <ike> maybe you can buy low power atom clock on chip
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: that's not quite true. You can mesh adequately with crystals.
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: they _vastly_ reduce the amount of on-time required for one reciever
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> (with the right protocols)
[11:13] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:14] <mikestir> suppose so up to a certain capacity limit
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> Also - we have GPS.
[11:14] <mikestir> in general protocols like zigbee restrict mesh routing to full-feature nodes, which tend to be always-on devices
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> it would be fairly trivial to listen for transmissions 30 seconds before and after every 10th minute
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> With some arbitration protocol as to who talks first.
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> The are uniquely numbered so each can talk on Nth second after 10th minute
[11:15] zygfryd (4dfd56fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.253.86.251) joined #highaltitude.
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps as simple as something like 'transmit at degree%2' or somthing
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: that too
[11:16] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) joined #highaltitude.
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: easy to setup too, as you could shut the reciever down for appropriate seconds if you hadn't heard a transmission from a source in several times.
[11:17] <LeoBodnar> But if they start rebroadcasting each other's data via their own telemetry links it gets progressively worse
[11:17] <mikestir> that works ok for a simple point-to-point network where everything is predictable
[11:17] <enkidu> imagine that z-mess
[11:18] mw_ (5bec205a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.236.32.90) joined #highaltitude.
[11:18] <mikestir> if the relays are moving around though (i.e. the routing order changes), it becomes much more difficult to know which timeslots you need to be receiving on
[11:19] <mikestir> maybe a single timeslot and cdma approach?
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> it works if you have enough bandwidth to relay all the data you can recieve in your own timeslot.
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> then you simply resend all you get - and nodes discard duplicate packets
[11:20] <mikestir> yes, but if a node doesn't know it's preceding node then it has to listen on multiple slots
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Nodes do have to have at least worst case width of network * nodes memory for packets so they can disregard dupes.
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: sure - every 10th reception - you listen on all slots.
[11:20] <enkidu> SpeedEvil: its done on z-wave chip level.
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: If you receive on a slot - you open it up for 10 receptions - and you always send.
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: yeah - but chip-level protocols are not always optimal for specific usecases
[11:21] <enkidu> i know
[11:22] <enkidu> thats why I told "imagine that z-mess"
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:23] <enkidu> OZ1SKY_Brian: we need someone closer to kobenhavn
[11:23] <mikestir> I quite like this idea because I have an interest in HA/sensor networking on the ground
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> mesh networking is awesome and shit at the same time.
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> Awesome when it's properly configured - and shit if people don't understand the limits.
[11:24] <mikestir> yeah I like the idea of e.g. zigbee, but at the same time I can't help but think it's an unnecessary expense especially for consumer applications
[11:25] <mikestir> except for commercial/industrial applications meshing is just not needed
[11:25] <enkidu> mikestir: I like the idea of zwave, but for light management there is good old DMX, now with RDM
[11:26] <enkidu> which can use two wires and 1$ controllers
[11:27] <mikestir> the problem with almost all the standard (or defacto standard) protocols is that they have no security at all
[11:27] <mikestir> z-wave is an exception, although even that has some major limitations, like some devices will just blindly accept a new network key
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: especially fun if you can upgrade the firmware of your electricity meter, or your neighbours.
[11:28] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering getting a clone of his electricity meter (which is not smart) to play with.
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> theres arduino code for mesh network with si4432
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> It's only £20ish
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> i got it running on stm32 - the core c++ code is very nicely written
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> but balloon to balloon is fundamentally limited
[11:29] <mikestir> yeah I think I've seen that. the HA stuff I'm working on at the minute is all si4431 (which is basically the same)
[11:29] <SP3OSJ> B11 and B12 has a solar 2xpanel parallel = 0.5-0.6 V How to get transfer to 1.8V (MAX 6Q) OR 3.3 v (MAX 6G) TPS61200 are using? What is the current is output as a 0.5 V input
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> as you have very low rx antenni gain
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> i think shortwave is the way forward - as LeoBodnar is working on
[11:29] JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #highaltitude.
[11:30] <mikestir> SpeedEvil: the IR interface on a lot of electricity meters is standard
[11:30] <mikestir> it will tell you the reading and that's about it (talking non-smart meters here)
[11:30] Action: Laurenceb_ is thinking about useing just a trailing dipole with the payload in the middle
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> *using
[11:32] <nats`> B11 and B12 still running ?
[11:32] <enkidu> yes
[11:32] <mikestir> anyone got AR8200 and found management software that doesn't look like it was written in 1985?
[11:32] <enkidu> $$B-12,192,113053,55.0886,18.5348,9438,8,-0,4.08,0.64*fde8
[11:32] <nats`> oO
[11:32] <nats`> that's an epic world record
[11:34] <enkidu> moreover, they dont appear to be landing soon
[11:35] <nats`> and they still have fully charger battery....
[11:35] <nats`> charged
[11:35] <nats`> it's really impressive
[11:36] Tramvai (50eb2c78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.235.44.120) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:38] <ike> what does -0 stand for?
[11:38] <ike> 8 are the sats
[11:38] <ike> 4.08 is v batt
[11:38] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:38] <ike> but what is -0?
[11:38] <cm13g09> afternoon chrisstubbs
[11:38] <chrisstubbs> howdy
[11:39] <chrisstubbs> need to change my clients hilight to something other than yellow on white. impossibloe to read
[11:39] <cm13g09> lol
[11:39] <G0TDJ_AFK> Hi Chris
[11:39] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon
[11:39] <nats`> hey chrisstubbs let me burn your eyes :D
[11:39] <cm13g09> looks like a bit of a trek if you did a launch today
[11:39] <chrisstubbs> hopefully nobody made a drunken fool of themselves last night ;)
[11:40] <cm13g09> Somewhere between Sudbury and Colchester....
[11:41] <LeoBodnar> ike: temperature (lousy programming should have been just 0)
[11:41] <ike> it got me puzzled :)
[11:42] <ike> one I prefer int8_t instead of strings like -10 or -0 ;)
[11:42] Brian_DK (~Brian@83.93.227.209) joined #highaltitude.
[11:43] <SP3OSJ> Balloon escapes SP3OSJ is Scandinavia receive 437.699.2Mhz (RTTY)
[11:43] zygfryd (4dfd56fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.253.86.251) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:44] <Hix> did you end up a wee bit hammered then chrisstubbs
[11:44] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@83.93.227.209) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[11:46] Seejjay_ (~Seejjay@82-69-203-85.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:46] <chrisstubbs> Hix lets just say im glad we went for dinner, or i would have struggled to navigate the DLR
[11:47] <Hix> heh - it is a bit of a tin-pot railway
[11:47] Seejjay (~Seejjay@82-69-203-83.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[11:47] <enkidu> need to drill window, as wind is blowing too much
[11:47] Nick change: Seejjay_ -> Seejjay
[11:48] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, yeah think I will leave that and see how it looks in the week
[11:49] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon cuddykid
[11:51] DrLuke (~quassel@v120420003125117.hostingparadise.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[11:51] DrLuke (~quassel@v120420003125117.hostingparadise.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:51] <SP3OSJ> Hallo Chris
[11:52] <enkidu> could we have speed vector plotted on map? (arrow + speed label)
[11:53] <chrisstubbs> enkidu, the mobile tracker shows ground speed on the sidebar
[11:53] <chrisstubbs> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[11:53] SQ9MDD (57cf59ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.207.89.171) joined #highaltitude.
[11:54] <kokey> these two picos
[11:54] <kokey> how are they powered?
[11:55] <chrisstubbs> Im off for lunch, brb
[11:55] <chrisstubbs> kokey solar and lipos
[11:55] <kokey> ah, cool, they got it working :)
[11:56] <kokey> I remember discussions about it many months ago
[11:56] <SP3OSJ> Chris I have your software RTTY see the frames: $$$$SP3OSJ,569,091525,53.694649,15.751880,4371,22,7,97.95,1.59,2.07*565D and: $$$$SP3OSJ,608,092452,53.741581,15.687700,4384,21,7,0.89,1.62,2.18*F586
[11:56] <SP3OSJ> chris dx over 100km to reset (0.00)
[11:57] <kokey> I wonder what setup worked so well, just a panel facing down?
[11:57] <SP3OSJ> Chris 97.95 - 0.89
[11:58] <cuddykid> hi chrisstubbs
[11:58] <cuddykid> finally got a cutdown mechanism working :)
[11:59] <cuddykid> pyro was giving me endless headaches even with a new batch of igniters - swapped to resistance wire and it does the trick
[12:02] DL7AD (6d2d036c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.45.3.108) joined #highaltitude.
[12:02] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[12:06] <ike> SP3OSJ what is your freqency?
[12:07] <DL7AD> is it possible to modify dl-fldigi that way, that it searches for signals automatically?
[12:07] edmoore (~AndChat19@188.29.164.219.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:08] <edmoore> Arko on the english countryside: "no wonder you guys get all your habs stuck in trees. Jeez"
[12:08] <adamgreig> haha
[12:08] <adamgreig> excellent
[12:09] <Darkside> hahaha
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> 163hours flight on B-11
[12:10] <adamgreig> crazy
[12:10] <edmoore> Impressive
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> another 5 hours and its one week
[12:10] <adamgreig> smashed the arhab record up
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> tht'd also double the current record
[12:11] <Laurenceb_> also http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/11961_trj001.gif
[12:11] Hix (~Hix@149.241.238.10) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[12:11] <edmoore> I think solar balloons could be the way to beat it
[12:11] <arko> lol
[12:11] KT5TK-DL (~thomas@pD9525C20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[12:11] <edmoore> In as much as I can't see a failure mode for them other than UV
[12:12] <edmoore> No helium diffusion
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> diffusion
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> oh
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> solar balloons = air?
[12:12] <edmoore> Yes
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> Well - fatigue also
[12:12] <edmoore> As per alain's talk yestetday
[12:12] <ike> what about 2 balloons one in another, one filled with He and other with H2?
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> Don't solar balloons need to be really big?
[12:13] <ike> record is 55 days I think
[12:13] <edmoore> Well there's almost no delta p across them
[12:13] <edmoore> So the loading is tiny
[12:13] <edmoore> So not sure fatigue is an issue
[12:13] <edmoore> Speedevil, depends on the payload!
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> i thought they had to have enough thermal inertia ...
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> Oh - do they rely on delta-t between the earth and sky
[12:14] <ike> did you guys remember the book http://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1264220195l/1825519.jpg
[12:14] <ike> it's soo cool
[12:15] DL1SGP (d90fa38e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.163.142) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[12:15] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: i thought for night flight you need really big?
[12:15] <Laurenceb_> well
[12:15] <Laurenceb_> like 4m diameter or more
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> I keep wondering about foil - actual foil
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> has the obvious UV advantage.
[12:16] <Laurenceb_> your crazy
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:16] <Laurenceb_> in b4 grammar
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> It's not that bad - if you can stop it ripping on the way up
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> And assemble it into a sane shape
[12:17] <ike> remember the lead balloon ;)
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> Gonna have a pretty massive radar cross section though :)
[12:19] <ike> or none if you make it like pyramid
[12:20] sp6ryd (4e080150@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.8.1.80) joined #highaltitude.
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: also nigh time IR isn't guaranteed to fly anywhere
[12:20] <ike> tetrahedron have no radar cross section
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> *night
[12:20] <ike> it's stelth
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> heh stealth balloon
[12:20] <sp6ryd> Hi B-11 listeners :-)
[12:21] <cuddykid> ping Upu- when you get a free moment could you drop me a line, got a question - don't worry if you're busy, can wait
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> ike: Only if you can keep it with the base horizontal and the edges sharp
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/en-historique3.htm
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: high cloud screws IR?
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> only i think that was in the talk yese
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> *yesterday
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yeah
[12:22] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he'd got to go to the conference.
[12:22] <number10> some pictures from edmoore s talk http://www.flickr.com/photos/65839734@N04/sets/72157635434184382/
[12:23] <adamgreig> in theory the solar balloon talk was recorded
[12:23] <adamgreig> how's your french?
[12:23] <sp6ryd> B-11 What is the algorythm to chose which position include and send in log
[12:23] <adamgreig> number10: nice, i saw earlier :) i like this one https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ocx706x1f3ezezi/en4c6irDVp
[12:23] <adamgreig> finally got the bitstream
[12:23] <adamgreig> after two hours
[12:23] <sp6ryd> B-11 nice idea to track whole run
[12:23] <number10> thats goos - I missed a shot at that
[12:23] <adamgreig> ed looks so fed up with it all
[12:23] <number10> good
[12:23] <adamgreig> but his arms are like "ta-da!"
[12:24] <Darkside> lol
[12:24] <Darkside> i likd the "i know this looks complicated" bit
[12:24] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65839734@N04/9696979409/in/set-72157635434184382
[12:24] <Laurenceb_> that code is too easy :P
[12:25] DL7AD (6d2d036c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.45.3.108) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[12:25] <number10> well it was for the taget audience Laurenceb_
[12:25] <adamgreig> well it worked
[12:25] <number10> +r
[12:25] <number10> yes and that
[12:25] <adamgreig> but that's just plotting some 2d histograms
[12:25] <adamgreig> so not sure what your point is :P
[12:25] <adamgreig> you want basic plotting functions to be easy
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah i thought it was doing correlation
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> didnt bother to read :P
[12:27] <edmoore> That was trying to make a sane 3d plot
[12:27] <edmoore> Matplotlib requires a bit more care and feeding than matlab
[12:28] <edmoore> I might also have not done it in the best way. I'm not the best at this stuff
[12:28] <enkidu> what do you think of binary format with variable field ammount?
[12:28] Aakash (0e611b24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.97.27.36) joined #highaltitude.
[12:28] <LeoBodnar> edmoore: is 1-bit ADC a standard approach for GPSes?
[12:28] <edmoore> Very common on the existing low power front-end chips
[12:28] <nats`> edmoore did you already try scilab ?
[12:29] <edmoore> Never tried scilab
[12:29] <nats`> I really enjoy it since I can't afford a matlab license
[12:29] <nats`> they did a great improvment over the last few years
[12:31] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: 1bit is very easy. its basically probing at v. high frequency, so can spot phase shifting
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> Well it is just a high speed comparator with servo?
[12:32] <edmoore> I'm quite happy with the python ecosystem at the moment. It keeps imoroving
[12:33] <edmoore> I still find it witchcraft though
[12:33] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: similar technique is used in 1-bit DAC's, just reverse way
[12:33] <edmoore> It's just sampling some noise
[12:33] <enkidu> theory is the same
[12:33] <tweetBot> @concreted0g: Just gone through the brilliant arduino-ntx2 tutorial by #ukhas I have loads to learn but got my arduino transmitting http://t.co/ecQWnfzUjf
[12:34] <Maxell> SP3OSJ: What freq is your floater transmitting?
[12:34] <edmoore> Or rather, the noise is sampling the signal
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> In Soviet Russia ADC designs you.
[12:35] <number10> edmoore: I hope you do the plots when you put slides up on the wiki edmoore
[12:35] <SP3OSJ> 437.700 +- 3Mhz
[12:36] <enkidu> what did you put in there? tinfoil cap?
[12:36] <edmoore> Yes I can toggle a thing in ipython notebook that embeds them into the html
[12:36] g3wgm_jim (5244226e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.68.34.110) joined #highaltitude.
[12:36] <number10> nice
[12:36] <ike> +- 3Mhz ???!?
[12:36] beingaware (~aware@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[12:37] <enkidu> my rtlsdr seem to be very accurate. no floating etc
[12:38] <enkidu> also: yagi, no amplifiers
[12:38] Babs___ (~babs@212.183.128.212) joined #highaltitude.
[12:39] <Maxell> SP3OSJ: whut, +- 3Mhz?
[12:39] Seejjay_ (~chatzilla@82-69-203-84.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] Bo_DK (~kvirc@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] Bo_DK (~kvirc@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) left irc: Client Quit
[12:41] <SP3OSJ> 437.697-437.003Mhz dryft of termic. No synchronic GPS!
[12:43] <sp6ryd> +/- 3 kHz then :-)
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: it was picked up again by SP1TMN buy quickly losing altitude
[12:44] <LeoBodnar> I can't hear it on Vidablick receiver in Sweden :(
[12:44] <ike> SP3OSJ: you ment 437.697-437.703Mhz dryft of termic.
[12:45] <LeoBodnar> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/398f04365cacc1702208cc32f193bd8b
[12:46] <Maxell> globaltuners helsinki antenna is nor for 70cm/crap
[12:46] <enkidu> 2V alkaline
[12:46] <enkidu> hope it was not burst, but convection
[12:47] <LeoBodnar> yes Maxell
[12:47] <Maxell> There is one WebSDR in Norway that is useable
[12:48] concretedog (56bfa2b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.191.162.180) joined #highaltitude.
[12:48] <SP3OSJ> Yes or thermals, or drops of water, or burst
[12:49] <Maxell> Also, whats the "DX" in SP3OSJ? Does it have a reciever that it listens on, or does it calculate current location minus launch site?
[12:49] heathkid (~heathkid@unaffiliated/heathkid) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[12:50] <SP3OSJ> Which battery from the helicopter: V911
[12:51] <concretedog> hello all, just wanted to drop in as I just went through the ukhas arduino to ntx2 tutorial successfully using one of those cheap realtek dongles as an sdr...got loads to learn but that tutorial is great., thanks
[12:52] <Darkside> concretedog: we saw your tweet
[12:52] <Darkside> :P
[12:53] Babs___ (~babs@212.183.128.212) left irc: Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi
[12:53] joph (~joph@foo.kueni.stw.uni-erlangen.de) left irc: Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
[12:54] <fsphil> hmm.. B-12's doing weird stuff
[12:54] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:54] <enkidu> not really
[12:54] <concretedog> excellent.. good to show my appreciation through various channels i reckon!
[12:55] <enkidu> there was wind change over Gdansk in the night
[12:55] <fsphil> ah
[12:55] <fsphil> still weird, considering the rest of the flight path
[12:55] joph (~joph@foo.kueni.stw.uni-erlangen.de) joined #highaltitude.
[12:56] <enkidu> weird is, that SP3OSJ gone
[12:57] DL1SGP (d90fa38e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.163.142) joined #highaltitude.
[12:57] <enkidu> I think that we should anect Bornholm
[12:58] edmoore (~AndChat19@188.29.164.219.threembb.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[12:58] concretedog (56bfa2b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.191.162.180) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[12:59] <enkidu> fldigi could automatically search for domex16
[13:01] <fsphil> it could. if someone writes that code :)
[13:01] Steve_2E0VET (~androirc@94.197.120.190.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:02] <enkidu> last time I agreed to modify colors in program I ended with complete meteorology architecture
[13:02] <SP3OSJ> weird is!
[13:02] <Darkside> fldigi does automatic searching for PSK31
[13:03] <fsphil> and rtty
[13:03] <Darkside> oh it does RTTY too?!
[13:03] <enkidu> yes
[13:03] <fsphil> yea there's an rtty signal browser in the newer versions
[13:03] <Darkside> nice
[13:03] <fsphil> but limited to currently selected rtty settings
[13:03] <Darkside> i use the PSK browser all the time
[13:03] <Darkside> i love it
[13:03] <enkidu> it does. Also, it doesnt seem very different
[13:03] <fsphil> for dominoex you could probably listen out for the symbol rate
[13:04] flvctvat (4841ee8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.65.238.141) joined #highaltitude.
[13:04] <enkidu> probably. probably I could use bandwidth or detect newlines at beginning
[13:04] <fsphil> which sounds easy
[13:05] <enkidu> Id rather think of not fully automatic detection
[13:05] <enkidu> rather small shifting to fin in bw
[13:06] <fsphil> that could be slow
[13:06] Nick change: Upu- -> UPu
[13:06] Nick change: UPu -> Upu
[13:06] <enkidu> why? we got "dots" at center plus good filters for subcariers
[13:08] <enkidu> ive just detuned filter by 150Hz. two decodes
[13:08] <enkidu> so its just about searching for band center
[13:10] <ike> this is quite handy for balloon tracking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioBuXgcJiiw
[13:11] <enkidu> overhorizon radar
[13:11] <enkidu> russians love it
[13:11] Aakash (0e611b24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.97.27.36) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:12] <enkidu> one was so classified, that they made chernobyl explode to get rid of curious ones
[13:13] <ike> https://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&q=Voronezh-DM%20Armavir
[13:13] <ike> this is better than chernobyl's one
[13:14] <enkidu> but smaller
[13:15] <arko> it was very awesome meeting you all yesterday
[13:15] <fsphil> it was a great day
[13:15] <LeoBodnar> Was that the radar too? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Woodpecker
[13:16] <enkidu> yes
[13:16] <enkidu> DUGA-3
[13:17] <enkidu> you can make "british woodpecker" and make one tracker "sweep" over am band ;)
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> Guys it was great to see everybody yesterday! I am still not able to put many nicks to faces and I apologise if I didn't meet everyone! We need to do it more often (maybe in smaller groups?)
[13:18] <LeoBodnar> British woodpecker sounds fluffy and adorable not menacing as it should have
[13:19] <enkidu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryal_radar
[13:19] <ike> 10MW shortwave I wonder what range does it have ;)
[13:19] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@83.93.227.209) joined #highaltitude.
[13:19] <enkidu> 350MW one
[13:19] <enkidu> i.e. 2MW AM transmitter can be received around half of the world
[13:20] <ike> with 2W shortwave can be received around the whole earth
[13:20] <chrisstubbs> arko, how much longer are you in london for?
[13:20] Brian_DK (~Brian@83.93.227.209) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:20] <LeoBodnar> We have one already http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fylingdales
[13:21] Action: chrisstubbs wonders if using a radio on the london cable car is "airborne use"
[13:21] <fsphil> chrisstubbs: you up there now? I've got my baofeng here :)
[13:21] <arko> chrisstubbs: another week and a half
[13:21] <arko> well
[13:21] <arko> now im in oxford
[13:21] <chrisstubbs> Nooo im back home :(
[13:21] <enkidu> ike: depends on propagation. 2MW longwave from Warsaw used to be heard in New York
[13:22] <chrisstubbs> arko, may do a launch next week from chelmsford, welcome to come along but it will be a bit of a trek for you!
[13:22] <keydash> Upu: u r ahere?
[13:23] <enkidu> at least it was not 300MW 2.4GHz
[13:23] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:23] <ike> you can get 800W at 2.4GHz really cheap
[13:24] <bertrik> :)
[13:24] <arko> chrisstubbs: thanks for the invite! if i dont have anything planned i'll swing by
[13:24] <enkidu> I have even 1050;)
[13:25] ChrisMc (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/session) joined #highaltitude.
[13:26] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[13:26] ChrisMc (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/session) left irc: Changing host
[13:26] ChrisMc (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.101.129.74) joined #highaltitude.
[13:26] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) joined #highaltitude.
[13:27] staylo (~staylo@unaffiliated/staylo) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[13:27] staylo (~staylo@vm3999.vps.tagadab.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:31] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, looking at http://ssdv.habhub.org/ Something bad must have happened to image 0
[13:34] <fsphil> that is two images combined
[13:34] <fsphil> must see if I can fix that
[13:35] <chrisstubbs> I should probably make the image id be stored on the SD card instead of memory
[13:37] <fsphil> normally not a problem, but I think I reset it half way through the image
[13:38] <chrisstubbs> Think the dropped packets are still due to overloading the fcd?
[13:40] <fsphil> yea. it was either overloaded with the antenna or too weak without
[13:41] <fsphil> there we go
[13:42] <fsphil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2013-09-07--13-52-42-M6EDF-52F.jpeg
[13:42] <chrisstubbs> Hah cool :)
[13:42] kpiman (56933dd5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.147.61.213) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[13:43] <DL1SGP> B-12 starting to get audible on Vidablick
[13:43] DarkCow (~DarkCow@cpc22-acto3-2-0-cust128.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:43] <enkidu> amplifier armed
[13:43] <fsphil> quality is great
[13:44] <enkidu> also my filter chain is looking nice
[13:44] <chrisstubbs> Right im off out, laters :)
[13:45] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[13:45] <enkidu> highpass T in antenna (fs=300MHz) lowpass on cable (fs=900MHz) and before amplifier - highpass for 110
[13:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP what about SP3OSJ?
[13:46] <DL1SGP> enkidu, which frequency do you hear B-12 on?
[13:46] <enkidu> 434.501300
[13:46] <enkidu> but I got some offset due to cheap oscillator
[13:46] <DL1SGP> OZ1SKY_Brian: I am trying to determine freq offset of vidablick to give the SP3OSJ balloon another try
[13:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[13:48] guest17 (d9d4e7e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.212.231.233) joined #highaltitude.
[13:48] Seejjay__ (~Seejjay@82-69-203-87.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:48] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[13:49] sp6ryd (4e080150@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.8.1.80) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:50] Seejjay (~Seejjay@82-69-203-85.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:50] Nick change: Seejjay__ -> Seejjay
[13:50] Steve_2E0VET (~androirc@94.197.120.190.threembb.co.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[13:51] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19842_trj001.gif
[13:52] guest17 (d9d4e7e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.212.231.233) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> poland to alaska
[13:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Next time on deadliest catch, polish balloon invation over dutch harbor.
[13:55] <DL1SGP> heh
[13:55] <LeoBodnar> We need a way of deorbiting them when they stop working
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: wow
[13:56] <enkidu> not really. planes are designed to survive collision with meteo balloons
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> Suddenly the world is so small
[13:56] <enkidu> even if it goes sucked into turboengine
[13:56] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: eroomde
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> I mean to stop blocking the sun
[13:57] <nats`> LeoBodnar congrats :) you smashed the world record
[13:57] <nats`> :)
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> Cheers nats` :)
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> B-12 is not going to beat any speed records though
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> Like B-6 that spent three days over Paris (almost)
[13:58] <nats`> looking at the trace you lost again sometimes ago ?
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> B-11?
[13:58] <nats`> there is a right angle near stockholm
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> No listeners
[13:58] <nats`> b12
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> No backlog :)
[13:58] <nats`> B11 seems to have a correct curve
[13:58] <nats`> ohh oky :)
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> next question:
[13:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP any luck?
[13:59] <LeoBodnar> But backlog is buggy so we only get lucky 2 days out of 5
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> how many balloons do you need to launch over a several week period - if they have no diffusion problems in order to make a global mesh network.
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's not actually hugely many.
[14:00] <nats`> too much to not have a law project to forbid that !:p
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> It's not I think illegal
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> If the balloons are teeny ones like this
[14:00] <nats`> it's already illegal in France to do the launch without the police consent
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> Even let a party balloon go?
[14:01] <DL1SGP> No not yet Brian
[14:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Updated the kml/zfiles for GE here with estimates from meto & Hysplit data for the lost sections http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-12_20130902/
[14:01] <nats`> ohh and the wire linking balloon to payload must not exced a strength of more than 23k
[14:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SpeedEvil you should take a look at this http://www.google.com/loon/
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I know
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> I think with 2000 balloons, you'd have a pretty good shot at global coverage
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> Sure - there would be gaps
[14:03] <DL1SGP> SP3OSJ lost about 1km in altitude between 11:20 and 12:20
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> I mean - sure it's a lot of balloons - but it's only maybe a £40K investment.
[14:04] DL7AD (6d2d00da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.45.0.218) joined #highaltitude.
[14:04] <ike> LeoBodnar you should log somewhere your findings about backlog and battery and so on. This way people will not make the same mistakes again
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> Imagine the publicity if you launched them all quietly, and then in a month or two turned on the global network. :)
[14:08] <DL7AD> dl7ad.de/wind_08092013_fl300.gif
[14:09] <DL7AD> www.dl7ad.de/wind_08092013_fl300.gif
[14:09] <ike> SpeedEvil: Imagine the publicity if you launched them all quietly, and then in a month or two turned on the global network. :) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jN8LC1aDpk
[14:09] <LeoBodnar> I am ready to try a cluster of few dozens if somebody is going to work out a mesh protocol.
[14:11] <ike> don't forget to include RF firmaware update
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Major oops.
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> What if they gain intelligence or somebody bad hacks them via FW update?
[14:11] Willdude123 (~William@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> If you pu the balloons at about 20km - the number drops to probably about 500ish needed for full coverage with some overlap
[14:12] <LeoBodnar> http://www.drsukhi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/World-Domination-Summit.jpg
[14:13] <nats`> 20km is a reasonnable expectation for an amateur balloon ?
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> These are party balloons and are at 10km
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming something like a 1.5m diameter balloon maybe made of something a little tougher.
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> To stay under the 'under 2m at all times' limit
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> if only it was possible to do fast comms between them - then you could think about having a teeny wifi dish and a flashing light on them.
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> pointing down
[14:15] <enkidu> or get a special permission to make bigger balloon
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Getting permission is boring.
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> using existing permissions to do things that were considered flat impossible is amusing.
[14:16] <enkidu> launching 40-m diameter loon may land in quick landing
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> That's why I am enjoying these party foil ones
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> Like HAM radio 100 years ago.
[14:18] deuce460 (56080f20@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.8.15.32) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> What Leo has done would be entirely boring and fairly obvious - if it was a 10m diameter envelope with a 2kg payload hanging off.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> Well - not maybe boring - but not nearly as awesome.
[14:22] <enkidu> has one built 70cm repeater carried by loon?
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> i know someones done a voice repeater.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> i don't remember if it was 70cm
[14:23] <ike> I have a question for you guys. I need some C example code for function, where I put 20 chars and get 30 chars from that function, then I sendo those 30 chars and 3 of them are missing and 5 of them are wrong but the other 22chars are ok, so I put those 27 chars in the other function and I get 20 original chars ... I need simple and effective "forward error correction" code
[14:24] <Willdude123> Are the rest of the conf videos going up?
[14:24] DL7AD (6d2d00da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.45.0.218) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[14:25] <fsphil> ike: http://www.ka9q.net/code/fec/
[14:25] RalphW0RPK (b8014325@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.1.67.37) joined #highaltitude.
[14:26] <ike> fsphil are they good for 8 or 16 bit cheap micro?
[14:27] <fsphil> I used his RS encoder on an avr
[14:27] <ike> how does it work
[14:27] <fsphil> magic
[14:27] <ike> did you get better range
[14:27] <fsphil> (ie. I dunno :)
[14:28] <fsphil> yea
[14:28] <ike> cool
[14:28] <RalphW0RPK> On Spacenear.us B11/B12 telemetry includes "Solar Panel: 0.65". What is the unit of measurement?
[14:28] <enkidu> V
[14:28] <fsphil> the data with the RS codes decode before normal telemetry
[14:28] deuce460 (56080f20@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.8.15.32) left #highaltitude.
[14:28] <ike> RalphW0RPK volts
[14:28] <ike> then it's transformed to 4.2 to charge battery
[14:29] <ike> using Maximum power point tracking convertor
[14:29] <ike> so solar output just 0.65volts
[14:30] <ike> fsphil I don't understand you
[14:31] <darkstar-20011> Out of curiosity, how efficient is converting the 0.7 ==> 4V?
[14:31] <ike> he said 90%
[14:31] <RalphW0RPK> Thanks Ike. These are extraordinary flights resulting from extraordinary design. Well done!
[14:31] <ike> I thought that is 10% but he said 90%
[14:31] SP6RYD (4e080150@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.8.1.80) joined #highaltitude.
[14:32] <darkstar-20011> 90% is much better than I was expecting!
[14:33] <ike> I was expecting 10% but I was wrong. I was expecting that B-11 mission will last 24h but I was wrong.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Switchedmode power converters in general get over 90% if the designer has botehred much about efficiency
[14:33] <ike> SpeedEvil but not at 0.65V
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> ike: at 0.65V
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> if you use a FET switch
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> And a good bypass cap
[14:34] <ike> if you have 20V and you need 5V it's soo easy to get 90%, but try it with 0.65V ... aliens, magis and so on
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> It's quite possible to make a 90% efficient supply from 0.065 - it just gets more annoying.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> And may need multiple stages.
[14:36] SP6RYD (4e080150@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.8.1.80) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[14:36] <ike> fsphil thanks for FEC link
[14:36] <ike> it looks good
[14:36] <ike> I have to try it
[14:38] <darkstar-20011> Interesting.
[14:38] <ike> Test (255,223) RS code what does this mean? that it encode 0-223 into 255 so you lose some dinamic range?
[14:39] <fsphil> it encodes 224 bytes
[14:39] <fsphil> and outputs 256
[14:39] <fsphil> (224 original bytes + 32 bytes)
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> does Fldigi rtty still drop characters?
[14:40] <fsphil> yea
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> DOH
[14:41] <ike> fsphil that is better
[14:42] SQ5NWI (53096159@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.9.97.89) joined #highaltitude.
[14:43] <ike> fsphil are there someting like 30,20 for MCU with 128bytes of ram?
[14:44] <fsphil> There are functions there for generating more unusual setups
[14:45] <fsphil> but I've not used them
[14:45] RalphW0RPK (b8014325@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.1.67.37) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[14:47] <ike> off-topic this is my favorite move moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6LEXXtEHwg&feature=player_detailpage#t=2236
[14:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Is the SP3 balloon transmitting all the time or does it have power safe mode?
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> B-11 has set UK distance record
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> 1550Km range
[14:51] gb73d (gb73d@79-68-242-199.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:52] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[14:52] <nats`> leo should put a self destroy system to avoid smashing every world record -_- :p
[14:52] <Laurenceb_> - point off coast of Estonia
[14:52] <Laurenceb_> CNSP still has world distance record
[14:53] <Laurenceb_> Bello Mondo-10 altitude :P
[14:53] <nats`> I don't understand I have a T1-1T transformer rated for 200MHz max but seeing VNA result it could be used way more than 1GHz
[14:58] DL1SGP (d90fa38e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.163.142) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[15:01] noname (541f040f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.31.4.15) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[15:01] JFS (6d954a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.149.74.45) joined #highaltitude.
[15:05] <mikestir> ike: if you want a simple fec you could look at the hamming codes used in teletext
[15:06] <mikestir> I don't know off the top of my head if they are any easier to implement, but I would assume they are (although also less good)
[15:08] wolfbl (4fc60ed5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.198.14.213) joined #highaltitude.
[15:10] JFS (6d954a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.149.74.45) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:11] homewld (5698ccd9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.152.204.217) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:14] nerdsville (516285cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.98.133.203) joined #highaltitude.
[15:14] <Willdude123> Are the rest of the conf videos going up?
[15:18] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) joined #highaltitude.
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13741_trj001.gif
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> looks like we need someone in Greece
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> nats`: they sell the 1GHz rated ones for $n*10
[15:21] <LeoBodnar> nats`: I think they are designed for square-(ish) signals and thus preserve higher harmonics.
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> looks unpredictable later - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13915_trj001.gif
[15:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Whilst waxing about real Pano's from HABs (not GE ones) yesterday several weren't aware of the Airpano team see this page http://www.airpano.com/360Degree-VirtualTour.php?3D=Stratosphere
[15:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> do read the first page before exploring the Pano's themselves there full story is there!
[15:22] <LeoBodnar> Sounds like R4 shipping forecast "looks unpredictable later"
[15:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Later ! Is it predicatable now ?
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14108_trj001.gif
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> Libya or Syria
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> fun areas
[15:24] <Willdude123> I think the new method of improving brand identity is to have a book about it next to your item.
[15:24] <Willdude123> http://www.griffintechnology.com/business/multidock
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgay-KW7PX4 - on how to deal with clouds
[15:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LoL
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> B-12 heading east http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14474_trj001.gif
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> might get it until tomorrow evening
[15:30] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, this is going to be fun
[15:32] DL7AD (5b3d524f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.82.79) joined #highaltitude.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> looks like B-11 will get the record
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> ~8days if someone can rx from Greece
[15:34] <nats`> uhhmm true LeoBodnar / SpeedEvil I try this monday at work to put it on a 300MHz squarewave to see :)
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:38] mewla4 (5c926e56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.146.110.86) joined #highaltitude.
[15:40] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, congrats on B-10 and 11
[15:40] <LeoBodnar> cheers Willdude123
[15:41] <Willdude123> How long have they been going? Nearly a week.
[15:42] Seejjay (Seejjay@82-69-203-87.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) left #highaltitude.
[15:42] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, you recovering them if you can?
[15:43] <Willdude123> Did you launch them at the same time?
[15:43] <LeoBodnar> I recover if they come down in UK. So far very few did
[15:44] <LeoBodnar> 24 h difference
[15:44] <nats`> if they fall down near paris I would recover them with pleasure
[15:44] <LeoBodnar> Thank you nats` :)
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> Paris looks unlikely, unless they come round again.
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> in 1 hour B-11 will have been up for a week
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15515_trj001.gif
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> Hehe. In one hour DurationRecord *= 2
[15:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No good Leo you will have to resign the job, an take up full time tracking!
[15:47] <nats`> please consider to put a sef destroy switch to let some chance to other :D
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> ^ UK to USA the wrong way
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: interesting
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> ill have a play with the cloud dispersion modeller
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> I don't think I would want to chase any records intentionally. It becomes quite an exhaustive feat.
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> What model has this longevity? Aren't they 180 hours?
[15:50] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> im using past data
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> they archive it all
[15:50] <LeoBodnar> Gotcha
[15:52] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, it might be a bit awkward if they end up outside the EU
[15:52] <LeoBodnar> GPS dark magic makes me think. Could one use existing GPS processors scaling them down by a factor of 3.3 into 70cm band?
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> wut
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/register/forms/register.pdf
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> arggg
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> pita
[15:53] <nats`> LeoBodnar that would be hard no ?
[15:53] <nats`> phase noise etc...
[15:53] <nats`> delay
[15:54] <LeoBodnar> Obviously direct scaling won't work but feeding IF signal into a processor for bit recovery?
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> oh
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> hahahahaha http://www.ciecem.uhu.es/hysplit-bin/dispatype.pl
[15:54] <nats`> seriously I don't know
[15:54] <LeoBodnar> Just use it for stream recovery
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: why?
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> oh
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> Me non comprendo!
[15:55] <DL7AD> I have a contact in Greece I could ask if he can receive B-11
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> open access Hysplit in spanish
[15:55] <Willdude123> DL7AD, see if it lands first. :)
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> Please DL7AD
[15:55] <DL7AD> yes of course
[15:55] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, does it have any cutdown method?
[15:56] <Willdude123> Also why is it floating this long?
[15:56] iain_g4sgx (~yahalimu@31.185.194.226) joined #highaltitude.
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: it hasn't leaked enough helium out to come down, or burst. And no
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: and Tx on 70cm?
[15:57] <DL7AD> he should live in Zakinthos, Greece
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: if one encodes the signal on 70cm using pseudorandom numbers and then on the rx end one demodulates it and feeds into GPS slicer to get the bitstream out
[15:57] <Willdude123> Yeah but why are most floaters only up for a day or so?
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> Yes Laurenceb_
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> theres an easier
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> way
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> tx a prn code
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> then sync the receivers
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: either it UV degrades, and bursts, or leaks
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> Using GPS?
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Most have gone out of range or run out of battery - so we don't really know
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> so annoying for long range
[15:58] KiwiDeaniMac (~Thunderbi@186.153.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[15:58] <Willdude123> Wait so is it leaking?
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> unless you are in the region of a time station on HF
[15:58] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, what happened to the methanol idea?
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> What is wrong with standard GPS procedure with self-correlation analysis ?
[15:59] <Willdude123> Reminds me, the local methodist church has "Meth church" written on their bins
[15:59] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:59] DL7AD (5b3d524f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.82.79) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: each receiver would need time sync
[15:59] <LeoBodnar> Apart from hardware requirements that can be overcome by using standard GPS processor block
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> or each transmitter
[15:59] KiwiDeaniMac (~Thunderbi@98.144.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #highaltitude.
[15:59] DL7AD (5b3d524f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.82.79) joined #highaltitude.
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> most HAMs arent set up to do this
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> So many cool things you can do with precise time sync
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> This is just for data piping, not positioning
[16:00] <Laurenceb_> oh
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> On hold for now Willdude123 and we have switched to butane anyway
[16:01] <Willdude123> Could you explain it like I'm 5 please>
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ciecem.uhu.es/hysplit-bin/disp1a.pl
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Fill the balloon with butane gas.
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> ok my spanish is failing me
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> Stop doing this and go to bed NOW! [Slap]
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: When it goes up too far, it gets cold, and becomes liquid. it falls down a bit.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: This makes it hover
[16:02] <Willdude123> Wow. Nice idea
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> (there are annoying complicating details, but it seems to work in principle.
[16:02] <LeoBodnar> So why don't we use GPS encoding magic for telemetry?
[16:02] <Willdude123> Is butane east to get?
[16:03] <Willdude123> Is eroomde's talk going up on the interwebz?
[16:03] <nats`> Willdude123 normally yes in butagaz bottle
[16:03] <nats`> but that's not a good idea I think
[16:03] <LeoBodnar> Cigarette lighters use butane
[16:04] <LeoBodnar> But it's heavier than air
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: PRN for telemetry seems overkill, and doesnt give you much more performance
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> nice it works http://www.ciecem.uhu.es/hysplitout/21932_partplt.gif
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> in the main - we've not bothered, because rtty is 'good enough'
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> if you get 500km+ distance - there is little point in getting more - to a balloon you're going to recover
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> it's only for beyond the horizon, or high datarates it might be interesting
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: why is particles different from matrix?
[16:07] <Laurenceb_> you can define a "cloud"
[16:07] <Laurenceb_> but yeah its broadly similar
[16:08] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> hmm dispersion is limited to 48hours i think
[16:11] flvctvat (4841ee8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.65.238.141) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[16:11] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:21] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A20C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:23] DL7AD (5b3d524f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.82.79) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[16:26] wb8elk (4b78de88@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.120.222.136) joined #highaltitude.
[16:28] DL1SGP (d90fa192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.15.161.146) joined #highaltitude.
[16:29] mewla4 (5c926e56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.146.110.86) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[16:29] navrac_home (56a5b704@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.165.183.4) joined #highaltitude.
[16:29] DL7AD (5b3d524f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.82.79) joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] DrLuke (~quassel@v120420003125117.hostingparadise.de) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[16:30] DrLuke (~quassel@v120420003125117.hostingparadise.de) joined #highaltitude.
[16:35] oldswl (~stephen@host217-34-45-72.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:42] PH3V (~PH3V@ip565723e4.direct-adsl.nl) left irc: Quit: PH3V
[16:43] <Maxell> Lunar_Lander: good evening.
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> hello Maxell
[16:46] ibanezmatt13 (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) joined #highaltitude.
[16:47] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[16:49] kpiman (5692d7df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.146.215.223) joined #highaltitude.
[16:52] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[16:54] Mik_WD8MNV (32889d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.136.157.96) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[16:58] <Willdude123> Hi ibanezmatt13 haven't seen you in a while.
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Will, yeah been busy with college
[16:59] <Willdude123> Trying to do P1 rating, too scared to do a flight though.
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[16:59] <Willdude123> Been a bit busy with school myself.
[16:59] <Willdude123> How are you finding it?
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> Very good so far; I think it'll get MUCH harder though
[17:00] <Willdude123> Has lfe magically become so much better like everyone says?
[17:00] <Willdude123> *lif
[17:00] <Willdude123> *life
[17:00] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[17:00] <ibanezmatt13> until Further Maths gets hard...
[17:02] <keydash> any habsupplis admin here?
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> 1 week flight
[17:04] <Maxell> Laurenceb_: and 14 minutes
[17:05] <Maxell> First packet that was elevated (209 meters) got recieved at 2013-09-01 16:50:08 by LeoB2, LeoB :P
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> Coolio
[17:11] <LeoBodnar> And 168 hours which is 2 x 84 :D
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> ive been trying to model superpressure stability
[17:11] <LeoBodnar> Oh, and?
[17:12] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:12] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:12] <PE2G> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/1336_trj001.gif
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> i seem to have derived d(height)/d(helium)=-scale_height
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> so you lose ~75m per percent of gas
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> its very confusing - at first i thought it was stable as gas was released
[17:14] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:15] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[17:15] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, How does it feel to have a balloon that's been up for a week>
[17:17] <LeoBodnar> Ahhh, I don't know, usual.
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> so in theory there should be a 450m descent before it becomes unstable
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> nothing obvious in the data
[17:19] <Willdude123> Does anyone know if ed's gps talk will get uploaded
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> for what amount of free lift?
[17:22] G8JNJ1465advcio (56aa0b28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.170.11.40) joined #highaltitude.
[17:23] <arko> LeoBodnar: i mean this as a complement, you totally look like carl sagan
[17:23] <mfa298> Willdude123: the talks should be uploaded in some form but you might need to wait a day or two (possibly longer)
[17:24] <Willdude123> Most of them have been already
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> im confused now
[17:24] <LeoBodnar> cheers arko I will think about this
[17:24] <LeoBodnar> :D
[17:25] <arko> Hahaha
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> And make contact
[17:25] <arko> please do
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: by my question or balloons ?
[17:26] <arko> Congrats on your week long flight
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> im not sure what happens as gas is lost
[17:26] <arko> :) too cool
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> thanks arko
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> theres an error somewhere...
[17:26] SQ9MDD (57cf59ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.207.89.171) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> Are you accounting for diffusion (don't go mad if the term is wrong)
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> im just doing a simple model
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> and adding remvign gas
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> but it producing silly results due to an error somewhere...
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> equations or simulation?
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> Is there a clever way of sensing somebody a link from http://www.batc.tv that already has HAB 2013 preselected?
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> *sending
[17:32] <arko> http://www.batc.tv/channel.php?cat=HAB+2013&ch=1&id=1168
[17:32] <arko> Like that?
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> ok i got it
[17:32] <arko> I lookednup the source code and found the id number
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> it ascends as gas is lost lol
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> 20m/% of gas lost
[17:33] <arko> Then tacked it on the url variables
[17:33] <Laurenceb_> so after 130m ascent it will descent catastrophically
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> i guess this kind of makes sense
[17:34] <LeoBodnar> cheers arko
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> the superpressure is the dominant effect
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> not the free lift
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> but its a minor altitude shift
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> Of course it does Laurenceb_ , it gets lighter and goes up
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> had to detect if there is creep in the envelope
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> Unfortunately it is massively non-linear
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> maybe 70m upward drift over 4days on B-11
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> very hard to say
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> Maybe exponential function would makes sense in modelling it
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> i have:
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> 1st vs 2nd night is a good comparison
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> Lift(Kg)=Volume(m^3)[rho_zero*exp(-scale*height)-0.14*rho_zero*gas]
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> rho_zero ~ 1.27Kg/m^3
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> scale~1/7600
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> height is in meters
[17:38] <LeoBodnar> Thermal equilibrium?
[17:38] <Laurenceb_> gas is the stp gas volume / total volume of envelope
[17:38] <Laurenceb_> yes im not modelling heating
[17:38] <LeoBodnar> OK
[17:38] <Laurenceb_> this can be solved as:
[17:39] <Laurenceb_> height(float)=-7600ln[Lift/(Volume*rho_zero)+0.14*gas]
[17:39] <Laurenceb_> which gives sane numbers if i plug in the balloon stats, and ascends slightly as gas is lost
[17:40] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] <Laurenceb_> -7600ln[0.045/(1.27*0.3)+0.14*0.33]=13.73Km, which seems sane for some random guesses
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> B-12 died again
[17:43] <LeoBodnar> Yep
[17:46] <PE2G> B-12 doesn't die. It just fades away. (Only for the night)
[17:47] <Laurenceb_> and dark at B-11
[17:47] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: eroomde
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> hi LeoBodnar
[17:48] <LeoBodnar> So what is happening with new data format structures, FEC and everything else?
[17:50] G4BWR_mark (2e218f57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.33.143.87) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[17:51] darkstar-2001 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> battery seems ok
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> oh nice - listeners in Slovakia
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> hi Lunar_Lander
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> how's things?
[17:53] Bo_DK (~kvirc@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:53] darkstar-20011 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> Quiet, serene almost
[17:53] <Bo_DK> mfa298: arround?
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> What atmospheric pressure model did you use Laurenceb_
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:01] Marini (050fed35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.15.237.53) joined #highaltitude.
[18:01] G3XVL_Chris (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.101.129.74) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[18:02] Marini (050fed35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.15.237.53) left irc: Client Quit
[18:03] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: just a really basic exponential decay
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> Should be good enough for small altitude changes or conceptual model
[18:07] Chetic (~Chetic@c83-250-75-148.bredband.comhem.se) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[18:08] <JDat> Video downlink from Zinoo2 payload.
[18:09] <JDat> This is hot it looks on live video downlink.
[18:09] <JDat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7YCRIVPss&feature=youtu.be
[18:10] <DL1SGP> lovely video
[18:12] <DL1SGP> bit older but nice too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcAIw7CJlKo we had lovely dual start last year in summer :)
[18:13] <PE2G> Came across this posting to a Romanian HAM forum:
[18:13] <PE2G> http://www.radioamator.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1193
[18:14] ibanezmatt13 (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[18:15] <JDat> Well...
[18:15] <JDat> it is interesting about termal stuff on payload
[18:16] <JDat> we just ignorred low temperiture problems
[18:16] <JDat> why?
[18:16] <JDat> whe have too much heat sources on Zinoo2 test flight
[18:16] <JDat> video transmitter, Gopro, Baterries
[18:17] <JDat> if everything is carefully packet together than no problema about cold
[18:17] <JDat> we need to worry about heat, not cold :D
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> that's what arko said
[18:20] batchoy (~batchoy@cpc3-hitc6-2-0-cust462.9-2.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] yo5pjb (598973af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.137.115.175) joined #highaltitude.
[18:22] batchoy (~batchoy@cpc3-hitc6-2-0-cust462.9-2.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Client Quit
[18:25] <LeoBodnar> JDat: http://www.batc.tv/channel.php?cat=HAB+2013&ch=1&id=1168
[18:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP who is the guy i uniform at 9:38 ?
[18:26] <DL1SGP> a train driver, he is SWL, might get a licence next month
[18:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok i see.
[18:27] ibanezmatt13 (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) joined #highaltitude.
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> JDat, yeah, my former payload
[18:27] <DL1SGP> he participated in the project but had to work right after the first payload was retrieved
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> it was in a staircase for testing
[18:27] <DL1SGP> that is why he is in work costume
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> and it was about 27°C at the beginning
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> and then the night came, but because of the cam and so on, it got hotter than 50°C inside
[18:30] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 241 seconds
[18:30] Chetic (~Chetic@c83-250-75-148.bredband.comhem.se) joined #highaltitude.
[18:35] <yo5pjb> Hi all. Could I get a link with info about B-11/B-12 ballon. What experiments they are carry and who is the owner of this ?
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> yo5pjb: LeoBodnar
[18:38] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) joined #highaltitude.
[18:41] <ike> yo5pjb are you FBI or HAM?
[18:41] <yo5pjb> CIA :P
[18:41] <yo5pjb> ofcourse a ham
[18:41] <yo5pjb> http://radioamator.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1193&p=8424#p8424
[18:42] <yo5pjb> I've just readed a message sended to a romanina hams forum
[18:42] <ike> ok then they carry thermonuclear experiment
[18:42] <ike> :)
[18:42] <yo5pjb> related with tracking of a baloon
[18:42] <ike> it's party balloon http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/index.html
[18:42] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[18:42] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:43] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:43] <ike> with gps and 434.500 transmiter
[18:43] <yo5pjb> oh... no sweets. that I wouldn't track it when is over Romania :)
[18:43] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:43] <yo5pjb> nice project
[18:44] <ike> to track it all you need is usb SDR dongle and this software http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[18:44] <LeoBodnar> hi yo5pjb I have launched both balloons :)
[18:44] <yo5pjb> interesting that they have more than e week on the sky
[18:44] <yo5pjb> I have an ft857 available to use
[18:44] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, we have smashed the duration record already
[18:44] <yo5pjb> those rt820 dongles aren't too sensitive
[18:45] <ike> LeoBodnar don't tell him he is FDA guy
[18:45] <yo5pjb> =))
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> I am not bothered :D
[18:45] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:45] <ike> tune it to 434.500 USB and tell us what you hear
[18:46] <yo5pjb> well.. I can ask tomorrow someone who is working at local airport if they have tracked it :P
[18:46] <yo5pjb> nothing at the moment
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> LeoBodnar: May I ask what's on the board minus the obvious components? Just curious
[18:46] <yo5pjb> listening for few minutes
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> It's a DominoEX digital mode
[18:48] <ike> si446x, gps, Maximum power point tracking (MPPT) IC and li-po battery
[18:48] <ike> and thermonuclear experiment
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[18:48] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> is there a lipo charging circuit on it or just a connector for the lipo?
[18:50] noname_ (541f040f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.31.4.15) joined #highaltitude.
[18:50] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:50] Myles (5c199b2f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.25.155.47) joined #highaltitude.
[18:50] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:51] Nick change: Myles -> Guest37052
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> evening jcoxon
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> evening jcoxon
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> howdy
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> jcoxon, have a good night?
[18:56] <jcoxon> yeah, was good fun
[18:56] <jcoxon> quite tired today
[18:57] <jcoxon> sat was a busy day!
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> Aha yeah I can imagine! Congrats to you and upu + everyone else involved
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> I think everyone enjoyed it
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> I did!
[18:58] <jcoxon> thanks
[18:58] <jcoxon> it was good fun
[18:58] klepko (d41aa57c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.26.165.124) joined #highaltitude.
[18:59] oe6rke (5b721bb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.114.27.178) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[19:00] Buzz_ (2e0cc0d4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.12.192.212) joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] <Buzz_> hello
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> I say it again! Best £30 I have spent for the last year
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> are the 36'' envelopes the largest available?
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Even at that size - they have problems.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Royal mail won't accept them as a large letter.
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> Haha
[19:03] Action: SpeedEvil looks again at the 1.2m*500m roll of polythene tube in the corner.
[19:05] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> http://www.qualatexballoons.co.uk/images/products/thumbs/six%20foot%20%20balloons%20(45).jpg
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> * LeoBodnar eyeballs a roll of mylar film
[19:07] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> need to bond it tho
[19:07] <Buzz_> why te ballon stoped?
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> i guess silicone PSA would work
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Buzz_: B12 has stopped transmittin gbecause it has a faulty battery
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Buzz_: And can't transmit at night.
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> i have a roll of that and a canister
[19:08] <Buzz_> tomorrow ballon will be in Greece right?
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> you can spray it with acetone
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> this isnt actually insane
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> http://www.signatureballoons.co.uk/balloons/product-page.aspx?CI_ID=162
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> I thought it would be considerably after tomorrow it'd be in greece - but I don't have any to hand
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> any plots to hand
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> This 36" silver round foil balloon will stay inflated with helium for up to a week, sometimes longer
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> Who was the balloon purchased from?
[19:11] <Buzz_> ebay?
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13453_trj001.gif
[19:11] <Buzz_> fuck :D my town is near :d
[19:11] <Buzz_> im from Komotini, Greece
[19:12] <DL7AD> http://dl7ad.de/wind_08092013_fl300.gif
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Why do some balloons report speed on the tracker and others not.
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Is it simply tha tthe balloon needs to actually report speed?
[19:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its what the designer chooses to send in the telemetry,
[19:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> speed direction etc can be sourced from the GPS module
[19:13] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> Wow - just flew about a mile east of Sp9rqa
[19:13] <Buzz_> http://prntscr.com/1q4q1y
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE: yeah - i know - i was sort-of-wondering is it done in the tracker
[19:13] darkstar-2001 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes
[19:14] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> you could work it out from loctions sent of course
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> If I have a spherical payload with 4 lines of nylon chord coming up separately from it, what's the way to connect the 4 lines of chord to the main flight chord? I know some knots but I'm not sure which to apply
[19:14] <Buzz_> where are u all from?
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> UK
[19:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> for me
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> Mostly UK, but a few dotted around europe
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> and a couple from US and aus
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Scotland
[19:16] <Buzz_> https://www.facebook.com/slaros.project?fref=ts SLAROS PROJECT
[19:16] <DL7AD> germany
[19:17] <Buzz_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VpqiTus9P4 from Greece
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.remote-island.co.uk/Categories/UFO_Blimps/Turbo_Blimp/Radio_Controlled_Turbo_Blimp.html
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> "This 36" silver round foil balloon will stay inflated with helium for up to a week, sometimes longer. This balloon has a shiny, reflective finish and adds 'wow' to any event."
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> They were right on both counts
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: i've been wondering about that too
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> What happened to B-12? :O
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: you don't need a huge cross-track thrust in order to change your eventual postion
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Buzz_: we are counting on you now
[19:21] <Buzz_> what?
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: problem with the battery I believe
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Aw :(
[19:22] gb73d (gb73d@79-68-242-199.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: Quit: Look out Dave she's gonna blow !
[19:23] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: i think he has no 70cm receiver Buzz_
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: it usually wakes up in the morning
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> i think hydrogen for the next flight
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> then it should hit 10Km
[19:24] <PE2G> chrisstubbs: Every day so far, B-12 came back to life again about 3 hrs after sunrise :)
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> you reckon it'll still be up in the morning LeoBodnar ?
[19:24] <chrisstubbs> Okay just wondering why it had been cleared off the map
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: break from the mold of orthodoxy. Xenon.
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> If I'd be a betting man I'd say yes
[19:25] <Upu> going to need a separate tracker soon LeoBodnar
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> Do we need to extend flight docs (yet again?)
[19:25] Bo_DK (~kvirc@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) left irc: Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/
[19:25] <Upu> most likely and we probably need to prune the flight path a little
[19:25] Bo_DK (~kvirc@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> it did give me 'not responding' when I loaded it in Ff
[19:26] Bo_DK (~kvirc@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) left irc: Client Quit
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> Yeah we don't need all the points
[19:27] <ike> maybe only every even hour
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> I am glad it transmits reasonably seldom
[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Updated GE kml/z files for B-11 and B-12
[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/index.php here
[19:27] PD2MST (~Martijn@188.207.106.255) joined #highaltitude.
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Is raw data still available from habitat?
[19:27] <Upu> lol you can say that again Leo
[19:27] <Upu> yeah should be
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> after pruning
[19:28] <Upu> yeah the prune is just on the spacenear.us database which is separate to habtat
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> All the raw data is available that's were I'm getting it from and cleaning up
[19:28] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-uahvoajffvklmjxb) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Wow - B11 slowed right down - I make it fast walking speed now
[19:28] G8JNJ1465advcio (56aa0b28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.170.11.40) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[19:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Upu, does spavenear.us feed habitat or is the raw sent to both ?
[19:29] <chrisstubbs> </idiotmode> I had spacnear.us in B-11 filter mode
[19:29] <Upu> habitat feeds snus
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> make sense
[19:30] <DL7AD> Buzz_ ? are you still online?
[19:30] <Buzz_> yeah im here
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> LOL "Error occured: Launch window may not be greater than one week (speak to an admin if you have a special requirement). (undefined @ 0). Sorry :-(.The application may become unstable or behave erratically, you should probably refresh the page."
[19:31] <DL7AD> i wrote you in a private chat ;) did you recognize?
[19:31] <Upu> snus uses a postgres sql database I think
[19:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Where did that come from Leo ?
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> I have tried to look up my existing flight doc on habitat
[19:33] <adamgreig> both flight docs now valid til the end of the 12th
[19:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Try again it does work, just select the flight on this page http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[19:34] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-vzddxdxtpdbwwjiu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> adamgrieg, Where you @ the conf yesterday ? Couldn't locate you at the pub!
[19:34] PD2MST (~Martijn@188.207.106.255) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[19:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Will the 12th be long enought ?
[19:35] <Upu> he was behind you Geoff
[19:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah, silly place to stand when I'm offering a to but a drink ;-)
[19:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> *buy
[19:37] PD2MST (~Martijn@188.207.110.164) joined #highaltitude.
[19:38] <tweetBot> @stratodean: Busy evening at Stratodean HQ. One blogging, the other coding. #nodragonsdenforus #ukhas http://t.co/ZwwfyxvslO
[19:39] robroy (5b721bb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.114.27.178) joined #highaltitude.
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark: is S3 up and running?
[19:40] <S_Mark> yep well the tracker is
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, didnt see you at the pub!
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> yea, we would have gone but my Dad had to get back, he went to USA this morning
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> he's here: http://www.flightradar24.com/VIR85
[19:45] <adamgreig> enjoy the conference?
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> Oh blimey, fair enough :)
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> it was fantastic!
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> so pleased that I can now put a face to so many :
[19:46] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know if anyone saw me tying some knots for a while yesterday, but I was wondering if somebody could tell me how I could do this: Say I have a spherical payload with 4 nylon lines coming up. How do I attach the 4 nylon lines to the main chord?
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> if that makes sense :/
[19:48] SQ9MDD (57cf59ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.207.89.171) joined #highaltitude.
[19:50] Hix (~Hix@host86-163-89-143.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Hix :)
[19:51] <DL1SGP> you mean without using an additional ring?
[19:51] ike (Miranda@78-130-179-217.vipnetbg.com) left #highaltitude ("I'm a happy").
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> DL1SGP: Er, is that what I need to use? I've never tied anything to an actual balloon chord
[19:52] <DL1SGP> not sure about what solution would be working best in your case
[19:52] <DL1SGP> what you certainly would want to get is a balanced system
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm confused, sorry :/
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> So a ring would keep it balanced?
[19:54] yo5pjb (598973af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.137.115.175) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[19:54] <DL1SGP> I would have to test myself, basically weight should matter for you as well
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'm gonna leave this concept for another time. It might just click next time I think about it
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark: Did you remember the capacitor on BP?
[19:55] <S_Mark> BP?
[19:55] <DL1SGP> what I would attempt first is a system in which 4 equally long cords attach to a ring that has the same diameter as your spherical load, then you can tie them together to have a pyramide which gives you 1 attachment for the main cord.
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait, same board sorry.
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> bypass
[19:56] <DL1SGP> if you then again used equally long cords to attach the payload to the ring then you should have a stable and balanced solution
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense actually DL1SGP
[19:56] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> DL1SGP: I am imagining a very big ring at the moment :/
[19:58] <DL1SGP> well if you think of the launches where up to 12 wx-radiosondes are launched at the same time... it is possible :)
[19:58] <DL1SGP> you just do not want such a system to hit somebody or something on return to ground without proper parachute
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> yea :) thanks for the info
[19:58] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[19:59] <DL1SGP> if you do not wanna use a ring you might be using lightweight fiber beams to create a cross
[20:00] <DL1SGP> .oO( could see such as part of an antenna )
[20:01] Hix (~Hix@host86-163-89-143.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> interesting, I'll have a ponder
[20:01] <DL1SGP> again, most important is security. so keep testing and see what works best for you
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[20:02] MalbikEndar (4d381ae5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.56.26.229) joined #highaltitude.
[20:04] <DL1SGP> you are welcome
[20:04] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:05] g4ayu (50c193ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.193.147.234) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:05] <MalbikEndar> Hi there! I am trying to learn how to decode with dl-fldigi. I am playing the sample mp3 (icaruscapture.mp3) from http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide on my soundcard and trying to decode it via the laptop microphone
[20:06] <MalbikEndar> I guessed that the carrier shift is 425
[20:06] <MalbikEndar> But now I wonder what the other RTTY parameters are.
[20:07] <MalbikEndar> I guess Baud Rate is 50
[20:07] <eroomde> correct
[20:07] <eroomde> 8n1
[20:07] <eroomde> i.e., 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit
[20:07] <eroomde> well actually that's just a guess as that's what it is 99% of the time
[20:07] <MalbikEndar> Haaaa... thank, I'll try that
[20:07] <mattbrejza> otheriwise itll be 7 data bits
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> are daddy long legs venomous?
[20:08] <eroomde> yes
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> oh :(
[20:08] <eroomde> no not @ you
[20:08] <eroomde> at mattbrejza
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> I know :)
[20:08] <eroomde> i don;t know about daddy long legs
[20:08] <eroomde> they have yet to kill me
[20:08] <eroomde> even after i have made them daddy no legs
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> yea, just killed one. I seemed to rip it clean in half and one half of it is still moving with what look like venomous stinger things that are moving and it's worrying
[20:09] Guest37052 (5c199b2f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.25.155.47) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:09] g3wgm_jim (5244226e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.68.34.110) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> I'm leaving it engraved into my floor because it looks dangerous to touch
[20:10] <adamgreig> eroomde: think i'm getting a radar return pulse
[20:10] <adamgreig> not 100% sure yet but..
[20:11] <eroomde> awesome!
[20:11] <eroomde> range?
[20:11] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: they're not venomous to people
[20:11] <adamgreig> https://randomskk.net/u/capture024.png
[20:11] <adamgreig> eroomde: that's a 30m away target
[20:11] <adamgreig> which is 4 sample durations
[20:11] <adamgreig> need to work on oversampling in time. or using chirping or prns.
[20:11] <adamgreig> uhm
[20:11] <adamgreig> a 15m away target
[20:11] <adamgreig> which is 30m round trip
[20:12] <adamgreig> but it would be a lot more convincing if it were a fair bit further away
[20:12] <eroomde> that looks plausible
[20:12] <adamgreig> yea indeed
[20:12] <eroomde> yeah i think prn's might be a good thing
[20:12] <adamgreig> plausible but not by itself entirely convincing
[20:12] <adamgreig> so like a prn would be fun
[20:12] <adamgreig> transmit the prn
[20:12] <eroomde> and you could get doppler out too
[20:12] <adamgreig> then do the phase search
[20:12] <adamgreig> and just expect to find two peaks
[20:12] <adamgreig> one at the tx and one at the rx
[20:12] <adamgreig> well tx and return
[20:12] noname_ (541f040f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.31.4.15) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[20:12] <adamgreig> was going to do a freq chirp
[20:12] <adamgreig> you transmit a 0.1ms pulse that goes 0 to 10MHz
[20:13] <adamgreig> so on a waterfall it's like /
[20:13] <adamgreig> then your return signal should be like / too, but time delayed
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: that works better for distances >> 1/4 phaseish
[20:13] <adamgreig> and you measure the frequency between the two
[20:13] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: what does - prn or chirp or..?
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> chirp
[20:13] <adamgreig> and what phase?
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> 1/4 phase at the top frequency
[20:13] XtremD (~XtremD@unaffiliated/xtremd) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[20:13] Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[20:13] XtremD (~XtremD@ool-182ef240.dyn.optonline.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> So 15m or so
[20:13] <adamgreig> well I have 28MHz transmit bandwidth so
[20:13] XtremD (~XtremD@ool-182ef240.dyn.optonline.net) left irc: Changing host
[20:13] XtremD (~XtremD@unaffiliated/xtremd) joined #highaltitude.
[20:14] <adamgreig> but the prn seems more fun
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> So Google tells me these things are the most poisonous spiders on the planet. But their fangs are tucked away so they can't kill you.
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> But, I just ripped this thing into more than 2 clean pieces and the fangs bit have actually come off and they're moving on their own and are exposed :/
[20:15] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: honestly it's fine
[20:15] <adamgreig> they're not really the most poisonous on the planet
[20:15] <adamgreig> and their fangs can't penetrate human flesh or whatever
[20:15] <fsphil> they're harmless
[20:15] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> brb, gonna try and find something to extract it with without touching it
[20:16] <adamgreig> you are overthinking this
[20:16] <eroomde> don't cross the streams
[20:16] <adamgreig> get some tissue or whatever
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> I have my head locked on your yesterday's talk eroomde
[20:16] <adamgreig> eroomde: any specific reason for bpsk to modulate the prn bitstream into the carrier?
[20:17] <fsphil> do a full dna test on it to find out how venomous it is
[20:17] <adamgreig> like, would fsk work just as well?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, are you there?
[20:17] <eroomde> adamgreig: in gps?
[20:17] <adamgreig> well in any similar such system
[20:17] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: with a kalman filter or a PLL?
[20:17] PD2MST (~Martijn@188.207.110.164) left irc: Quit: 73, de PD2MST
[20:17] <adamgreig> obviously choice of modulation will affect things like how you implement the tracking loop?
[20:17] <adamgreig> but specifically for this reverse gps thing actually
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> The whole concept
[20:17] <adamgreig> easy to find msk transmitters
[20:17] Dumorimasoddaa (~heliossch@dab-crx1-h-84-9.dab.02.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:17] <adamgreig> and I feel like you could maybe do bpsk with just an msk transmitter
[20:18] <adamgreig> but fsk is even more common
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> I want to try it for telemetry
[20:18] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: as in, just to encode the 50 baud data?
[20:18] <eroomde> not really sure adamgreig
[20:18] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: why?
[20:18] <eroomde> suspect same considerations as before
[20:18] <eroomde> bandwidth limit vs power limit
[20:18] <eroomde> oh well actually
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian, I read a facebook post by copenhagen suborbitals, but it is in danish and I don't understand it. what is their problem with the island?
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> To extract sync from the stream via self-correlation
[20:19] <eroomde> you'd need some decent tracking loop for the freq jumps
[20:19] <adamgreig> sync to what though, the telem bitstream?
[20:19] <eroomde> some fsk equivalent to the costas loop
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> WHat ferq jumps :)
[20:19] <eroomde> that might just be matched filters
[20:19] <adamgreig> eroomde: yea, that's my thought
[20:19] <eroomde> dunno
[20:19] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: i think within our bandwidth limits it'd be difficult to do spreading
[20:20] <eroomde> i think we're only allowed 25kHz
[20:20] <eroomde> i also think nobody would ever know if you were to do spread spectrum though either
[20:20] <eroomde> over a few MHz
[20:20] <mattbrejza> msk is constant power? should be able to do with ntx2 etc with the right shift?
[20:20] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: thinking of the msp430+cc1101 thing
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> It's the concept, not necessarily same parameters as GPS
[20:20] <mattbrejza> cc1101 has a min baud rate of lots for msk :(
[20:20] Geek_Juice (~Bryanstei@68.67.76.71) joined #highaltitude.
[20:21] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: that's good
[20:21] <adamgreig> I want lots
[20:21] <adamgreig> as much as possible
[20:21] <mattbrejza> oh right
[20:21] <adamgreig> but I want bpsk maybe, rather than msk
[20:21] <adamgreig> but no one makes bpsk rf+mcu as far as I can find
[20:21] <adamgreig> or just transmitters at all
[20:21] <mattbrejza> well msk is kinda qpsk
[20:21] <adamgreig> yea
[20:21] <adamgreig> despite really being fsk
[20:21] <mattbrejza> hmm
[20:21] <mattbrejza> so yea dsss via msk would be interesting
[20:22] <eroomde> CW with some unity gain mosfets arranged to do the inverting?
[20:22] Sven_ (2e732bd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.115.43.212) joined #highaltitude.
[20:22] <eroomde> why mosfets? nfi, silly premature design
[20:23] iain_g4sgx (~yahalimu@31.185.194.226) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[20:23] <adamgreig> could do though mucking with 868MHz carrier is annoying
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> how does prn help
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> with telemetry
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> i dont see it
[20:23] <arko> eroomde: http://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> Not sure yet, but it surely does.
[20:24] <mattbrejza> you could tx much more power without anyone knowing :P
[20:24] <adamgreig> I'm not sure that it does help with telem really
[20:24] <adamgreig> the point with prns is that you can spread spectrum
[20:24] <adamgreig> but we aren't allowed to spread anyway
[20:24] <adamgreig> and we don't need to either
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> if all you have is a PRN, everything looks like a GPS
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattbrejza and adamgreig
[20:24] <mattbrejza> yo
[20:24] <adamgreig> evening Lunar_Lander
[20:25] <tweetBot> @stratodean: @stratodean: New on the blog! - The International UKHAS Conference 2013 http://t.co/L0u8i8CBaO #UKHAS
[20:25] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: if all you have is a PRN, everything looks like a GPS
[20:25] <eroomde> v true
[20:26] <eroomde> was playing with ranging stuff based around PRNs too
[20:26] <eroomde> and a distributed radar system
[20:26] <eroomde> to spot stealth planes
[20:26] <eroomde> lots TX with orthogonal PRNs, lots listen
[20:27] <eroomde> and that gets around the problem of the reflections from a given Tx being scattered in other directions
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> Looks like the tweetbot picked up some random characters in that link. Cant remember who made it...
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> adamgreig ^^ ?
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: DAB transmitters
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> THis was new concept to me and I found it very novel and simple. It's neither but that's irrelevant
[20:28] <eroomde> "GPS workshop - finger courtesy of Ed Moore"
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, how do you mean?
[20:28] <eroomde> that is a terrible caption
[20:28] <S_Mark> Haha eroomde
[20:29] <S_Mark> we thought it was funny :p
[20:29] <adamgreig> not I, chrisstubbs
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> What is "finger courtesy" lol ?
[20:29] <eroomde> i said terrible with a smile :)
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> :D
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, http://t.co/L0u8i8CBaO I had to remove the "â€"
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah me too
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: you said power density is different to Fourier transform why is that? Coefficients? Window?
[20:30] <eroomde> phase information
[20:30] <S_Mark> Great presentation eroomde btw, really enjoyed it
[20:30] <eroomde> you loose that with power spectral density
[20:30] <mattbrejza> those boxes should render as ", sort out your unicode support :P
[20:31] <S_Mark> same for mattbrejza
[20:31] <eroomde> it's where i take the total correlation score
[20:31] <eroomde> by squaring and adding (and squarooting) the sin and cos correlation scores
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, so it is simply amplitude of Fourier transform?
[20:31] <mattbrejza> thanks S_Mark
[20:31] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: exactly
[20:31] <eroomde> it's the magnitude part of the fourier transform
[20:31] <eroomde> for the fourier transform you keep sin and cos orthogonal
[20:32] <mattbrejza> oc not hard to get the phase out using the method you showed
[20:32] <eroomde> yes i know
[20:32] <eroomde> but i really didn;t want to go near complex numbers in that talk
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> hey S_Mark !
[20:33] <eroomde> there was enough in it already
[20:33] <S_Mark> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:33] <mattbrejza> i thought you might know eroomde :P
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, I just invented something
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> do you want to hear what it is?
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> I had a beautiful picture on my desktop about 10 years ago where I took a picture of a white disk on a black background, did 2D Fourier transform on it, converted to amplitude and phase, forced phase to zero and made reverse transform
[20:33] <S_Mark> yep what is it
[20:33] <eroomde> what did it look like?
[20:33] <eroomde> i would try and work it out but it's sunday night
[20:33] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> I call it HAB wedding, works like this, when there is a wedding,a special balloon prep truck is placed near the wedding place, when the people come out of the house, a balloon is released through the truck roof
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> I'll find it one day and let you know. Some 3D looking spheres.
[20:34] <S_Mark> ok Lunar_Lander
[20:34] <eroomde> is someone spoofing Lunar_Lander?
[20:34] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[20:34] <S_Mark> what is the balloon doing
[20:34] <DL1SGP> released along with pidgeons?
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> I am not even sure what made me do it. Was just playing around
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> taking photos of the people
[20:34] <S_Mark> ah
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> and erm
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> haven't worked that out yet
[20:35] <S_Mark> right lol
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> maybe RTTY wedding music
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:35] <S_Mark> early stages then
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> release the confettii
[20:35] <eroomde> fill the balloon with confetti
[20:35] <eroomde> pop it
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:35] <eroomde> maybe hydrogen balloon to assist in the distribution of the confetti
[20:35] <DL1SGP> it will hover over the crowd at 30m pop and release a huge load of confetti
[20:35] <eroomde> S_Mark: thanks. you perhaps deserve an 'i survived the talk' badge
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: why would you need phase info? To make PLL more efficient?
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:36] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:36] <S_Mark> why do we need a hab for this, could you not use a cherry picker ?
[20:36] <chrisstubbs> burning confetti showers should go down for a wedding to remember
[20:36] <mattbrejza> i was speaking more generally
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> Tracking loop or whatever it was called
[20:36] <eroomde> you need phase information to do the correlation in the freq domain
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> well HAB is what we are working on
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> you and I
[20:36] <mattbrejza> well the costas loop already uses the phase
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: tracker on the bride and groom - just in case
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> that idea was especially for you
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> I am sure it contains information from which side you are approaching the match
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL yea
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: ?
[20:37] <mattbrejza> you do tan(I/Q) rather than abs(I,Q)
[20:37] <mattbrejza> arctan
[20:37] <eroomde> so correlation is what takes load of time in aquisition
[20:37] <eroomde> with the naive thing i coded
[20:38] <chrisstubbs> cuddykid, are we allowed to ask what your launching? :P
[20:38] <mattbrejza> am i right in thinking that the correlation trackers only need a few multiplcation + add operations per sample per satellite?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, well do you have an idea why I came up with that Idea?
[20:39] <mattbrejza> so probably doesnt use too much power?
[20:39] <S_Mark> no, how did you come up with it Lunar_Lander
[20:39] <eroomde> but correlation of x and y in the time domains is the same as multiplication in the frequency domain between the fourier transform of x and the complex conjugate (reversed phase) of the fourier transform of y
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> well you are the only couple doing HAB
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> wait, my team colleagues are couple too
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> hm well, might not just be a one timer
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: err - does this mean you get multipath correction 'for free' if you alter the fourier transform of y a little
[20:41] <eroomde> unsure that's too big a question after a drinking session with arko
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:41] <arko> :)
[20:41] <eroomde> i stayed away from multi path in the talk
[20:42] JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) left irc:
[20:42] <eroomde> but what it does do is automatically search all possible code phases at once
[20:42] Penfold (~mike@iannos.altrion.org) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[20:42] <eroomde> that's why it took like 2s to perform the search instead of 20mins
[20:42] steve_____ (~steve@cpc2-cbly1-0-0-cust515.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:43] <eroomde> it searches all 12000 possible offsets in one multiplication
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, hope that was OK :)
[20:44] <mattbrejza> one large matrix multiplication i would assume
[20:44] <eroomde> so you then only need to search in each of the 40 frequency bins
[20:44] <eroomde> rather than do 12000 multiplications in each of the 40 freq bins
[20:44] <mattbrejza> rather than 2x6
[20:44] <tweetBot> @PD3EM: It looks like High Altitude Balloons B-11 and B-12 can use some trackers in HA, YO, LY and YL! http://t.co/7wDftLWw48 #UKHAS
[20:44] <S_Mark> ha ok thanks Lunar_Lander
[20:44] <eroomde> it's just vector-vector
[20:44] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[20:45] <S_Mark> think we are a while from using your services though :p
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> I want to try it on dsPIC33 assembly
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> MAC commands are easy
[20:45] <mattbrejza> my qn was about once you have found the signal and are just tracking, but i think youre answering leo
[20:45] oldswl (stephen@host217-34-45-72.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left #highaltitude ("Ex-Chat").
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> *on dsPIC in assembly
[20:46] <eroomde> ah right probably
[20:46] <eroomde> can't keep up with IRC
[20:46] <eroomde> ram could be limiting
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> This is like a trading floor on a stock exchange
[20:47] <eroomde> though if you fixed-point the poo out of it, maybe
[20:47] ibanezmatt13 (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[20:47] <eroomde> i wonder if you could make your LO 1-bit too
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> Wasn't it called wavelet transform?
[20:48] <eroomde> and so mixing would be just xoring a 16bit register of data with a 16bit register of LO
[20:48] <mattbrejza> well that like a one line modification to yday's code?
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> I think some sort of square signals are orthogonal
[20:48] <eroomde> mattbrejza: to implement the parallel code phase acquisition?
[20:49] <eroomde> i think the wavelet transform is something else
[20:49] <mattbrejza> no the 1bit LO thing
[20:49] <eroomde> oh right
[20:49] <eroomde> possibly
[20:49] <eroomde> yes i could play and see
[20:50] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: can you get 12Mbit/s into a dspic?
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> yes if parallel
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> shift register would work
[20:51] <eroomde> up
[20:51] <eroomde> yup*
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> It has 1MSPS 10-bit adc
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> if needed
[20:52] Buzz_ (2e0cc0d4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.12.192.212) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:52] <eroomde> if it was the other way round you'd be in luck
[20:52] <eroomde> 10MSPS 1-bit
[20:53] danielsaul (~danielsau@99.198.122.28) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> Can do that no sweat
[20:53] robroy (5b721bb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.114.27.178) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:53] <eroomde> you might be in luck then!
[20:53] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:53] <eroomde> though you might swell use a front end chip with does the ADC for you
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> Cycle time is 16MHz and I can sample on each instruction cycle
[20:53] <eroomde> as it implements a really low noise, stable downmixer
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> *smapek a pin
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> *sample
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> I like writing tight efficient timing-deterministic code
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> Don't have opportunities though
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> *many
[20:56] <eroomde> GPS would be a good foe in that respect!
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> Would make a nice useless project!
[20:57] <eroomde> you could rebroadcast gps
[20:57] <eroomde> from your payload
[20:57] danielsaul (~danielsau@99.198.122.28) joined #highaltitude.
[20:57] <eroomde> save needing a whole gps receiver
[20:58] <eroomde> and get pos fixes on the pc
[20:58] Nick change: danielsaul -> Guest36457
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> BW would be massive
[20:58] <eroomde> yup
[20:58] <eroomde> but no one would know
[20:58] <eroomde> the perfect crime
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> Downconvert and just PA into antenna?
[20:58] <DL7AD> how can i get sound from ShardSDR to DL-FlDigi?
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> I like your thinking eroomde
[20:59] <eroomde> yep exactly that
[20:59] <eroomde> well for the rocket i was thinking rebroadcast on fm
[20:59] <eroomde> because then the rocket's own doppler relative to the ground doesn't mess things up
[20:59] <eroomde> it will just look like a DC offset
[21:00] <eroomde> but it's probably not a big deal on a balloon
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: I think either with actual audio cable or software http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
[21:01] mclane (~uli@p5B02F4BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[21:02] <DL1SGP> DL7AD, modernde Windose versionen haben bei den aufnahmegeraeten sowas wie "Stereomix" damit hast du ein toneingangsgerät was das aufnimmt was deine SDR software ausgibt
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> We need a good wideband receiver for this
[21:02] zygfryd (4dfd56fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.253.86.251) joined #highaltitude.
[21:02] <DL1SGP> kannst mir gerne ne direktnachricht schreiben dann helfe ich dir weiter
[21:02] <DL7AD> DL1SGP ja windows xp aber nicht windows 7
[21:02] <eroomde> hackrf/bladerf/ettus_research
[21:03] <DL1SGP> ich hab das auch bei windows 7 :)
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> WHat does "damit" mean in German?
[21:03] <eroomde> i think it means 'i tried installing windows'
[21:04] <arko> hahaha
[21:04] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:04] <eroomde> yo jcoxon
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> i was looking at GPS on 180mhz stm32f4
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> you might just get 12 channels
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> with inpine asm
[21:05] <eroomde> i mentioned you and this in the talk
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> i got fixes running with sige sampler
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> 5m out from most of the fixes
[21:06] G4HZW (524551a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.69.81.164) joined #highaltitude.
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> the WGS84 stuff was an epic pita
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> most of the error was geoid -> os map conversion related at first
[21:06] <eroomde> i glossed over all the reference frame stuff
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:07] <eroomde> lots and lots of details
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> but yeah i havent actually got an asm correlator running on arm
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> theres going to be some issues with flash and chache
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> *cache
[21:08] SQ9MDD (57cf59ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.207.89.171) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:08] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:08] zygfryd (4dfd56fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.253.86.251) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> interesting altitude noise on b-11 after sunset
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> stable now
[21:09] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@83.93.227.209) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> its def gone up, but its very hard to know whats going on
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> i guess a baro would help here
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> so you know barometric altitude
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> actually if i wasnt lazy i could grab some past weather data
[21:10] G4HZW (524551a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.69.81.164) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> so atm, its at 8750
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> im so lazy
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> arko, back in pasadena?
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> so its flying at 33kPa
[21:13] <adamgreig> eroomde: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/okjc3r1f6mlywdm/Rz1AmXvqvj
[21:13] <arko> Lunar_Lander: i just got to the uk like 4 days ago
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> We made it into Slovakia
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, well done :)
[21:13] <eroomde> adamgreig: nice!
[21:14] <arko> woah cool
[21:14] <adamgreig> but- I am less convinced that that second spike is a return pulse from my target
[21:14] <adamgreig> because it's still there kind of when I point it into the sky?
[21:14] <adamgreig> but not if it's indoors
[21:14] <adamgreig> and if I block either tube with foil the signal drops right off
[21:15] <adamgreig> which is a bit weird as I had assumed that the primary pulse I was seeing was getting through the two tubes
[21:15] <adamgreig> not being reflected off anything
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> Is it the same distance from TX reference or RX puldes?
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> when you move target
[21:16] <adamgreig> well I can't really move it enough to be useful
[21:16] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:16] <adamgreig> it's already 15m down the garden, I can't put it further back without it being behind a ton of foilage and any closer and it's not really got enough to do anything
[21:16] <adamgreig> also it's in the garden and it's wet and dark
[21:17] Steve_2e0vet (~pc01@97e09087.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:17] <adamgreig> but I see the same kinda shape indoors
[21:17] Dumorimasoddaa (~heliossch@dab-crx1-h-84-9.dab.02.net) left irc: Quit: Dumorimaosddaa away!
[21:17] <adamgreig> suspect the magnitude operation might be confusing things
[21:17] <adamgreig> let's see
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> haha
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/16422_trj001.gif
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> wtf is going on
[21:18] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-52-75.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> i guess it uses past predictions not data
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> or the data is poor
[21:19] Steve_2e0vet (~pc01@97e09087.skybroadband.com) left irc: Client Quit
[21:20] Willdude123 (~William@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 261 seconds
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> Why Germany as starting point?! :D
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> past data
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> im trying to work out helium diffusion less
[21:21] number10 (519a08fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.8.252) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:22] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> OK
[21:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening ALL
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> looks like its ascending at 4Pa/hour
[21:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> im back in home :-)
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> evening Tom
[21:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i've just received B-11 :-)
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> im running a load of hysplits with past data
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> to try and correct for pressure and ground temperature and terrain and stuff
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> seems like a consistent 4Pa/hour
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> Well done Tom! :)
[21:24] daveake (~daveake@37.104.23.108) joined #highaltitude.
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB-Tom, hello
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> Poles are doing very well today!
[21:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hi Lunar_Lander :-)
[21:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: its all my fault ;-(
[21:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: it could have crossed underneath an airway
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> Keep faulting then :)
[21:25] <eroomde> yes POHAS is twice the size of UKHAS
[21:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi eroomde :-)
[21:26] <adamgreig> eroomde: what kind of PRN generator might be good for this radar?
[21:26] <adamgreig> could just steal a gps gold code
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> if this is the diffusion rate
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> i get exactly 3 weeks float time
[21:26] <eroomde> not sure really. yeah could steal a goldcode
[21:26] <eroomde> or something a bit shorter
[21:26] <eroomde> hi SP9UOB-Tom
[21:26] <adamgreig> 1ms is fine
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> it does seem like a consistent ascent rate, shoving the past data through hysplit
[21:27] <eroomde> want my gold code generation function?
[21:27] <adamgreig> please
[21:27] <adamgreig> any chance you have a C version? ;)
[21:27] <adamgreig> haha actually no I'll just hardcode it in the C
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> adamgreig: using fpga on the rf-slice?
[21:27] <adamgreig> no
[21:28] <adamgreig> would like to but that's faff and slow to write and I've not used altera tools and stuff
[21:28] <adamgreig> given as I've managed to get 40MS/s full duplex on my desktop
[21:28] <adamgreig> doing that for now
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> oh
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> cool
[21:28] <adamgreig> 2.5Gbit/s
[21:28] <adamgreig> ;o
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> It will keep rising and then descent rapidly due icing
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> prob yes
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> id expect it to fail sooner
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> when it get to 1gram or so - after 2 weeks
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> if it used hydrogen itd be at 10Km with 4 to 5 week float time XD
[21:30] <eroomde> adamgreig: http://pastebin.com/DqDgFfXD
[21:31] <adamgreig> thanks
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> heh numpy
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> H2 diffuses less?
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> yes, a lot less
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> Or partial pressure is less?
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> people think im weird for using octave
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> no, lower diffusion
[21:31] <adamgreig> you really had to say "add 0 and 1 together in gf2" rather than "xor"? :P
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> i wonder how long it can fly until UV destroys it
[21:32] <eroomde> it's all about salesmanship
[21:32] <eroomde> i tried to add some comments anyway
[21:32] <adamgreig> :P
[21:32] <adamgreig> anyway great, thanks
[21:32] <eroomde> np
[21:33] <adamgreig> get to try bpsk on my bladerf then I guess
[21:33] <eroomde> picks any sat id
[21:33] <adamgreig> happily with IQ that's super easy
[21:33] <eroomde> it'll be a gold code
[21:33] <adamgreig> great
[21:33] SQ5NWI (53096159@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.9.97.89) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[21:33] <adamgreig> so 1023 bits and transmit at 1.023MHz huh
[21:33] <adamgreig> in theory I could transmit faster and it'd be ok right
[21:33] <eroomde> yep
[21:34] <eroomde> use your bandwidth luke
[21:34] <adamgreig> hehe
[21:34] <adamgreig> maybe 8MHz then
[21:34] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: you dont even need a costas loop as you already have the LO?
[21:34] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: well kinda but the costas loop tracks freq drift due to e.g. dopler
[21:34] <adamgreig> as the sat moves overhead so its relative vel changes
[21:34] <adamgreig> for static radar targets, no need
[21:34] <mattbrejza> you also use it for general BPSK demod
[21:35] <mattbrejza> as you dont know the LO phase
[21:35] <eroomde> faster chipping = better resolution
[21:35] <adamgreig> the lo or costas?
[21:35] <adamgreig> eroomde: yea exactly
[21:35] <adamgreig> I have 28MHz out of my TX filter
[21:35] <eroomde> the delay locked loop should be good to about 0.1 chip resolution
[21:35] <adamgreig> or I can turn of the filter off and TX at 40MHz but that's probably a poor idea
[21:35] <eroomde> which is about 30m at the speed of light with 1.023MHz chipping
[21:35] <adamgreig> hmm
[21:35] <adamgreig> but does it give me a float out?
[21:35] <adamgreig> like, such that I can usefully average it
[21:35] SQ5NWI (531cd378@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.28.211.120) joined #highaltitude.
[21:35] <eroomde> yes
[21:36] <adamgreig> mm
[21:36] ChrisMc (5165814a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.101.129.74) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:36] <LeoBodnar> II forgot that you have high elevation antenna SP9UOB-Tom
[21:36] <adamgreig> I think I will set the transmit samples/second to 20MS/s and have one sample per bit
[21:36] <adamgreig> so 20MHz code rate
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> adamgreig: what are you planning?
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> synthetic aperture radar?
[21:36] <adamgreig> that reduces the amount of data going over the usb link which might help a little anyway
[21:37] Action: Laurenceb_ just had a mad idea
[21:37] <adamgreig> Laurenceb_: just radar really. for now
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> SAR on a HAB
[21:37] <adamgreig> lol
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> mentallness
[21:37] MalbikEndar (4d381ae5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.56.26.229) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> it might even work
[21:37] <eroomde> i did wonder about electronically steerable arrays on a hab
[21:37] <eroomde> to always point the beam back at a fixed point on the ground
[21:37] <eroomde> despite swinging
[21:38] daveake (daveake@37.104.23.108) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[21:38] <eroomde> this idea predated the distributed listener though
[21:38] <eroomde> i.e. wanting anyone anywhere to ehar
[21:38] <eroomde> hear*
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> if your HAB is moving at a fair rate, you could use a simple dipole for SAR?
[21:40] <eroomde> does hackrf have a coherent clock input?
[21:40] <eroomde> let me google that for me
[21:40] <adamgreig> yes
[21:40] <adamgreig> it has a master/slave clock thing
[21:40] <eroomde> ok
[21:40] <adamgreig> so you can link two or more together and have the adcs share a clock
[21:40] <eroomde> MUSIC to my ears
[21:40] <adamgreig> hah indeed
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[21:40] <adamgreig> I'd love to try it
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> i guess the attenuation is huge
[21:40] <adamgreig> but I'm not sure MUSIC is even the best algorithm for that sort of thing any more?
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> for HAB SAR
[21:40] <eroomde> same
[21:41] <eroomde> well
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: B-11 is warmer tonight
[21:41] <eroomde> this could be the reversed gps thing
[21:41] <adamgreig> hmm
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> how do you work this out
[21:41] <eroomde> make a gps disciplined oscillator to drive the clock
[21:41] <adamgreig> I think the local tx idea is neater/easier
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> i guess if the radar hits the ground all bounces off
[21:41] <eroomde> we each have one clocking our hackrf wherever we are in the country
[21:41] <adamgreig> you want people to be able to use rtl-sdrs
[21:41] <adamgreig> rather than $300+tax hackrfs
[21:42] <adamgreig> with gpsdo and smb cables and etc
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> the reflecting stuff behaves like a source at 40Km range or so, but its incoherence
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> im confused
[21:42] <adamgreig> just have a gps and the same microchip+radio as on the balloon
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> *incoherent
[21:42] <adamgreig> transmitting gold code #1
[21:42] <adamgreig> and syncing it to the gps pps
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> oh yeah theres that idea too
[21:42] <adamgreig> and it can modulate the GPS lat/lng onto the signal too
[21:42] <adamgreig> then the computer-side software samples from the rtl-sdr
[21:43] <adamgreig> finds the local gold code #1 which is going to be the same sync for all stations, works out its station position from the gps data embedded in that
[21:43] <adamgreig> then searches through the other gold codes to locate a balloon
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:43] <adamgreig> then just reports the phase difference average between the balloon code and the local code back to habitat
[21:43] <adamgreig> habitat gets positions and pseudoranges
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> how the hell do you calculate SAR return signal
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> its an incoherent mess right?
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> but the energy has to be conserved...??
[21:46] Action: Laurenceb_ brain explode
[21:46] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> i guess an order of magnitude approximation is a source at balloon height*2 ??
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> for total input power
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> then it has to be binned and everything
[21:50] Action: DL7AD found a station which can receive the balloon in bucharest tomorrow
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:51] <DL7AD> 6 hours work of writring thousand mails :P
[21:51] mw_ (5bec205a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.236.32.90) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[21:52] <DL7AD> never sent so many emails at one day
[21:52] <adamgreig> eroomde: could you stick up the circular correlation stuff?
[21:52] <adamgreig> got it transmitting the prn (maybe, the received signal looks like so much noise :P)
[21:53] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )
[21:53] <adamgreig> so just need to see if the prn is found inside my rx data
[21:53] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[21:53] <WillTablet> Hi
[21:53] <chrisstubbs> haha just found the photos of arko on my ssdv camera
[21:53] <PE2G> DL7AD: Great job! Did you search qrz.com ?
[21:54] <WillTablet> Hi chrisstubbs.
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Howdy will
[21:54] <WillTablet> Forgot to order the PCBs again
[21:54] <eroomde> ok but i was just working on it
[21:54] <eroomde> and it's a bit ugly
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> did you play along from home yesterday?
[21:54] <eroomde> trying to make it nice for release
[21:54] <DL7AD> not only on qrz.com. i was searching for highaltitude balloon rumania on google
[21:54] <eroomde> forgive the nasties
[21:54] <adamgreig> you are forgiven :P
[21:54] <DL7AD> and found some persons and webpages
[21:54] <eroomde> http://pastebin.com/CfFk4t69
[21:55] <eroomde> second function calls the first
[21:55] <adamgreig> ta
[21:55] <PE2G> DL7AD: A lot of work
[21:55] <DL7AD> yep
[21:56] <eroomde> you might have to hack out all the freq search stuff
[21:56] <WillTablet> Hi eroomde
[21:56] <eroomde> hi
[21:56] <adamgreig> what's localOscillator.generateIQ?
[21:56] <WillTablet> Do you know when your talk is going up?
[21:56] <adamgreig> or, well, I can guess what it does - should I just bodge that or do you have a handy function
[21:57] <eroomde> sec
[21:57] <eroomde> http://pastebin.com/CLJGaHmL
[21:57] <adamgreig> great thanks
[21:58] <eroomde> assume that's the contents of a module called localOscillator
[21:58] <eroomde> which i was just trying to make
[21:58] <adamgreig> cool
[21:58] <adamgreig> PRNCodeResample?
[22:00] <eroomde> oh well
[22:00] <eroomde> and roll
[22:00] <eroomde> sec
[22:01] <eroomde> http://pastebin.com/cnZDcB7B
[22:01] <adamgreig> cool, thanks
[22:02] MLow_ (~MLow@74.63.229.166) joined #highaltitude.
[22:03] kurti_ (~kurti@unaffiliated/kurti) joined #highaltitude.
[22:07] XtremD (~XtremD@unaffiliated/xtremd) got netsplit.
[22:07] kurti (~kurti@unaffiliated/kurti) got netsplit.
[22:07] MLow (~MLow@74.63.229.166) got netsplit.
[22:07] Chetic (~Chetic@c83-250-75-148.bredband.comhem.se) got netsplit.
[22:07] zarya (~zarya@sayumi.gigafreak.net) got netsplit.
[22:07] ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) got netsplit.
[22:07] GeekShadow (~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) got netsplit.
[22:07] Maxell (~Maxell@ipv7.xs4all.nl) got netsplit.
[22:07] nigelvh (~nigel@c-24-22-141-166.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) got netsplit.
[22:07] Muzer (~muzer@cpc4-sotn9-2-0-cust230.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) got netsplit.
[22:07] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) got netsplit.
[22:07] joph (~joph@foo.kueni.stw.uni-erlangen.de) got netsplit.
[22:07] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) got netsplit.
[22:07] craag (~ircterm@dxspot.tv) got netsplit.
[22:07] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) got netsplit.
[22:07] SebastianFlyte (~sebf@pool-173-66-215-186.washdc.fios.verizon.net) got netsplit.
[22:07] mfa298 (~mfa298@gateway.yapd.net) got netsplit.
[22:07] costyn (~costyn@lolcathost.quanza.net) got netsplit.
[22:07] Elijah_ (~elijah@71-35-37-111.phnx.qwest.net) got netsplit.
[22:07] cm13g09 (~chrism@panther.cmtechserv.co.uk) got netsplit.
[22:07] Guest36457 (~danielsau@99.198.122.28) got netsplit.
[22:07] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) got netsplit.
[22:07] Seejjay_ (~chatzilla@82-69-203-84.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) got netsplit.
[22:07] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-233-25.clienti.tiscali.it) got netsplit.
[22:07] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) got netsplit.
[22:07] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) got netsplit.
[22:07] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) got netsplit.
[22:07] WillDuckworth (~will@host86-150-123-30.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) got netsplit.
[22:07] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) got netsplit.
[22:07] cardre (~cary@cdhm1.everynet.com.au) got netsplit.
[22:07] LWK (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) got netsplit.
[22:07] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) left irc: Quit: night
[22:08] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[22:09] Black_Phoenix (~phoenix@ip-6317.proline.net.ua) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:09] cuddykid (~acudworth@host-92-16-84-252.as13285.net) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[22:09] seventeen (021bf710@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.27.247.16) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:10] Martin_G4FUI (~Martin@mjrigby.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:11] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) returned to #highaltitude.
[22:11] XtremD (~XtremD@ool-182ef240.dyn.optonline.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:12] DarkCow (~DarkCow@cpc22-acto3-2-0-cust128.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[22:13] XtremD (~XtremD@ool-182ef240.dyn.optonline.net) left irc: Changing host
[22:13] XtremD (~XtremD@unaffiliated/xtremd) joined #highaltitude.
[22:14] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:16] <fsphil> freenode having a moment
[22:18] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] cm13g09 (~chrism@panther.cmtechserv.co.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Elijah_ (~elijah@71-35-37-111.phnx.qwest.net) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] costyn (~costyn@lolcathost.quanza.net) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] MLow (~MLow@74.63.229.166) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] LWK (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Muzer (~muzer@cpc4-sotn9-2-0-cust230.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] nigelvh (~nigel@c-24-22-141-166.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] WillDuckworth (~will@host86-150-123-30.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Maxell (~Maxell@ipv7.xs4all.nl) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] mfa298 (~mfa298@gateway.yapd.net) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] GeekShadow (~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] SebastianFlyte (~sebf@pool-173-66-215-186.washdc.fios.verizon.net) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] kurti (~kurti@unaffiliated/kurti) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] zarya (~zarya@sayumi.gigafreak.net) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] cardre (~cary@cdhm1.everynet.com.au) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] craag (~ircterm@dxspot.tv) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-233-25.clienti.tiscali.it) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Seejjay_ (~chatzilla@82-69-203-84.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] joph (~joph@foo.kueni.stw.uni-erlangen.de) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Chetic (~Chetic@c83-250-75-148.bredband.comhem.se) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] Guest36457 (~danielsau@99.198.122.28) got lost in the net-split.
[22:18] cardre (~cary@cdhm1.everynet.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] LWK (~LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] ivan`` (~ivan@li125-242.members.linode.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] Muzer (~muzer@cpc4-sotn9-2-0-cust230.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] Chetic (~Chetic@c83-250-75-148.bredband.comhem.se) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] zarya (~zarya@sayumi.gigafreak.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] GeekShadow (~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] Maxell (~Maxell@ipv7.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] nigelvh (~nigel@c-24-22-141-166.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: eroomde
[22:19] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] Guest36457 (~danielsau@99.198.122.28) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] zyp (zyp@zyp.im) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] Seejjay_ (~chatzilla@82-69-203-84.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-233-25.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] WillDuckworth (~will@host86-150-123-30.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] joph (~joph@foo.kueni.stw.uni-erlangen.de) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] craag (~ircterm@dxspot.tv) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] SebastianFlyte (~sebf@pool-173-66-215-186.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] mfa298 (~mfa298@gateway.yapd.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] costyn (~costyn@lolcathost.quanza.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] Elijah_ (~elijah@71-35-37-111.phnx.qwest.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] cm13g09 (~chrism@panther.cmtechserv.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:19] wolfbl (4fc60ed5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.198.14.213) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:20] WillTablet (androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) left #highaltitude ("just").
[22:20] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[22:26] <WillTablet> Hi
[22:26] PE2G (Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) left #highaltitude.
[22:26] <DL7AD> hi WillTablet
[22:27] <DL7AD> and good night
[22:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah were back
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> hmm SNR might actually work for HAB SAR
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> using 500m square pixels
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> just the _slight_ issues of PLL phase noise and clock stability as its moving so slowly
[22:30] DutchMillbt (3e2d8485@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.45.132.133) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> What if it floats to N.Korea?
[22:39] <KT5TK-DL> 99 Luftballons...
[22:40] <mattbrejza> you wouldbt be the first http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/28/north-korea-balloons
[22:41] <mattbrejza> i wonder how many times the cusf predictor is used by people in korea...
[22:41] <adamgreig> we should do a heatmap of launch locations
[22:41] <adamgreig> I bet that'd be really interesting actually
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[22:43] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-110-188.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, did you ever think about adding a flight terminator?
[22:47] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:48] <fsphil> skynet?
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> cutdown
[22:49] <BrainDamage> I think he means a 30 MtTNT thermonuclear device to make sure the balloon finally dies
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> So far this has not been needed
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:50] <fsphil> I doubt it would have the power to cut itself down
[22:55] smrtz (899bd134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.155.209.52) left irc: Changing host
[22:55] smrtz (899bd134@unaffiliated/smrtz) joined #highaltitude.
[22:55] smrtz (899bd134@unaffiliated/smrtz) left irc: Changing host
[22:55] smrtz (899bd134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.155.209.52) joined #highaltitude.
[23:00] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A20C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[23:01] Sven_ (2e732bd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.115.43.212) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> The nylon envelope is very easy to melt a nichrome wire can burn a hole in the envelope and trigger a very gentle descent
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> some Armstrongs mixture
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> in a glued on pouch
[23:03] <LeoBodnar> In fact I have burned a hole in an envelope with a resistor when experimenting with heating He inside the balloon
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> now i want to strap an Blade-RF to a hab
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> no time for all this stuff :-/
[23:04] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> blade rf to run SAR
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> Have you finished your thesis yet?
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> nope lol
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> im out of cash in 2.5weeks
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> but im just going to finish this chapter
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> few more pages then its just into and conclusion chapters
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> so i can do that in spare time
[23:13] DL7AD (5b3d524f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.82.79) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[23:17] navrac_home (56a5b704@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.165.183.4) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19347_trj001.gif
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> might last till tomorrow evening with Rx in Greece
[23:25] kpiman (5692d7df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.146.215.223) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[23:32] G8KNN (~jon@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:35] <LeoBodnar> Will see tomorrow! good night for now! :)
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> cya
[23:35] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) left irc:
[23:43] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-142.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[23:51] K5GTO (~IceChat77@184.177.84.123) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Mon Sep 9 2013