highaltitude.log.20130905

[00:00] <crash_18974> enkidu: I think it's a great idea and may get some students interested in RF/electronics who may not have otherwise been
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[00:10] <enkidu> idea is nice for sure. I am only afraid, that some proffesors would be against it
[00:11] <crash_18974> don't ask ..... don't tell :P
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[00:12] <crash_18974> seriously, why would they be against it?
[00:13] <enkidu> why not? my university was offered by Danfoss:
[00:13] <enkidu> "we will build you new laboratory with all mechanical elements you want, but you will revenge us with one day for our technicians to do courses"
[00:13] <enkidu> answer was no
[00:15] <crash_18974> well this isn't quite the same as a corporate 'invasion'
[00:16] <enkidu> actually it was only offer for one faculty and relatively small group of students
[00:17] <enkidu> 40 students yearly
[00:17] <crash_18974> is Danfoss a government contractor?
[00:18] <enkidu> no, it is worldwide pump producer
[00:18] <crash_18974> hmm, ok
[00:19] <enkidu> but I will try with balooning
[00:19] <crash_18974> so basically they wanted free research labor, and I suppose a tax write off ??
[00:19] <enkidu> who cared about tax
[00:20] <crash_18974> corporations do
[00:20] <enkidu> they wanted to create group of engineers that will ease them to gather in new factory
[00:21] <enkidu> if you can educate students in university to fullfill your needs in engineering, its cheaper than year of course after
[00:21] <crash_18974> gotcha
[00:21] <enkidu> and probably even cheaper than whole lab
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[00:23] <enkidu> I gonna ask one guy that is PhD here, if he can manage to gather a group of interested students
[00:24] <crash_18974> just tape flyers on campus dogs like we did in the 80s :)
[00:26] <crash_18974> seriously, launch one balloon on campus, it wll be in the school paper. Then they will come and at least watch. Maybe more.
[00:27] <enkidu> first, Id have to get permission
[00:27] <enkidu> there is civir airport nearby
[00:27] <enkidu> civil*
[00:28] <crash_18974> :)
[00:33] <enkidu> also Id need to build payload
[00:38] <enkidu> but its not a problem
[00:45] <enkidu> neither is battery - two mobile cells
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[03:07] <enkidu> what was base frequency of B-11?
[03:08] <crash_18974> 434.500 ??
[03:08] <enkidu> I am on GT toulouse and I hear nothing :/
[03:08] <crash_18974> <LeoBodnar> Dial is 434.500 modem centre 1904
[03:08] <smrtz> Hola! What's up?
[03:11] <crash_18974> enkidu: there's a chance I could be misunderstanding or confused. And if that is the case, I apologize.
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[03:18] <enkidu> no reception
[03:18] <enkidu> Ive scanned what I could using GT
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[04:00] <smrtz> Hey Upu, are you here?
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[04:03] <x-f> it's 5am in UK
[04:03] <x-f> morning all
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[04:04] <smrtz> Ahh, lol, I forgot about the time change.
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[04:12] <WD8MNV> has B-11 been recovered?
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[04:19] <enkidu> dont think so, it should be out of range by now
[04:20] <enkidu> adam84 captured it over France, while it was re-sending log
[04:21] <enkidu> it will be now near Lyon/Geneve
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[04:31] <enkidu> when last seen on predicted path, it had 3.67V battery, so it has survived night
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[04:56] <enkidu> for some reason B-11 was removed from habitat :(
[05:03] <x-f> it's still there
[05:03] <enkidu> i mean from fldigi list, there is B12
[05:04] <x-f> ah, it's flight document might have expired
[05:04] <x-f> they both have the same settings anyway
[05:05] <x-f> great, adam84 received B-11's position in France an hour ago
[05:05] <enkidu> is it possible to oxtend flight docu?
[05:06] <x-f> habitat admins probably can do that
[05:06] <x-f> but don't worry, you can select B-12 from the list or enter the params manually, dl-fldigi will upload positions anyway
[05:06] <enkidu> dont worry, it will not be in my range for three days
[05:07] <enkidu> worse, it can flot around italia/france for few days
[05:07] <enkidu> float*
[05:07] <x-f> whereabouts are you?
[05:07] <enkidu> Gdansk, PL
[05:08] <x-f> just two days :)
[05:09] <enkidu> look at the weather model
[05:10] <enkidu> http://meteomodel.pl/gfseu/WIND300/03
[05:10] <enkidu> wind speed at barometric level 300hPa
[05:11] <x-f> what altitude is 300hPa?
[05:11] <enkidu> normally between 7000-9000m agl
[05:11] <enkidu> but it varies
[05:12] <x-f> ah, yeah
[05:12] <x-f> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/1564_trj001.gif
[05:12] <x-f> heh
[05:13] <x-f> it's gonna go in circles forever!
[05:14] <enkidu> not really
[05:15] <enkidu> 07.sep it will head to nort Africa
[05:15] <enkidu> then back over Syria and Turkey
[05:15] <enkidu> if predioction wont change
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[05:26] <enkidu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/11065_trj001.gif
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[05:35] <LeoBodnar> mornings
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[05:41] <jcoxon> morning
[05:42] <jcoxon> so B11 replayed did it
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[05:43] <LeoBodnar> $Bry1,2799,05282 edC4.9832,5.0896O8886,6,-11e.74n.54*b771 $$B-11ti,053058,44.9963,5.0844,8909,7,-MK,3Cn5,o N57*Mn25
[05:43] <LeoBodnar> From Crema just a few minutes ago
[05:44] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[05:44] <jcoxon> good work!
[05:44] <LeoBodnar> It looks like it
[05:44] <jcoxon> the flight log feature needs some work
[05:44] <jcoxon> hehe
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[05:44] <jcoxon> so this is 86 hours roughly?
[05:44] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[05:44] <LeoBodnar> It's buggy on both sides atm
[05:44] <LeoBodnar> 84:59
[05:45] <jcoxon> wow
[05:45] <jcoxon> well thats broken that record
[05:46] <LeoBodnar> Not bad for a £3 party balloon. I am impressed.
[05:47] <enkidu> < LeoBodnar> From Crema
[05:47] <enkidu> and I thought, why is it busy
[05:48] <LeoBodnar> Signal is gone atm
[05:48] <LeoBodnar> Maybe in a little while
[05:48] <jcoxon> does the toulouse GT not work
[05:48] <jcoxon> ?
[05:48] <LeoBodnar> no USB
[05:49] <jcoxon> one of those...
[05:49] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, so its heading back for hte conference then
[05:49] <enkidu> it is possible to fix signal with gnuradio ;)
[05:50] <jcoxon> work time
[05:50] <LeoBodnar> Some massive jammer on Crema
[05:50] <jcoxon> awesome work LeoBodnar - you are a genius
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[05:50] <LeoBodnar> Yes, hard work indeed, drinking tea and watching screens :D
[05:51] <LeoBodnar> Little fella had to go over Alps twice in the night and I have done the work :)
[05:52] <enkidu> intermodulations... hate this ;/
[05:53] <enkidu> rtlsdr is vurnelable to them: you can receive nearby FM stations +/-28MHz
[05:55] <WD8MNV> AM bcb can be a problem as well
[05:56] <enkidu> not really, only strong nearby stations
[05:56] <enkidu> and here is the list: FS/TV station, 150meters (20kW)
[05:56] <WD8MNV> In my case... nearby is AM bcb
[05:57] <enkidu> fm/dvbt station: 2km, los, 20kW
[05:57] <enkidu> and most loved one is 9km away
[05:57] <enkidu> 4*120kW FM, 3*100kW DVB
[05:58] <enkidu> I want to capture TWR talks
[05:58] <WD8MNV> when HackRF is finished... i'll have one.
[05:59] <enkidu> you will still need some filters
[05:59] <WD8MNV> just for the AM i think
[05:59] <enkidu> I need just 88-108MHz blocker
[06:00] <WD8MNV> those are easier to find than the AM ones
[06:00] <enkidu> also I have added GSM/LTE blocker/ remover
[06:00] <enkidu> depends, what is your desired lower frequency
[06:00] <WD8MNV> I haven't had the FM problem... they all stay where they are supposed to be
[06:00] <LeoBodnar> Probably just easier to get one bandpass than many rejecting ones
[06:00] <enkidu> for me simple return channel blocker would be enough
[06:01] <enkidu> not really easier
[06:01] <Darkside> enkidu: i hope you;re not planning on using mobile phone batteries in a balloon payload
[06:01] <Darkside> i think i read you saying somethign like that earlier
[06:01] <LeoBodnar> Aren't they regular LiPo?
[06:01] <Darkside> yeo
[06:01] <Darkside> which freeze
[06:01] <enkidu> Darkside: why? have them succesfully working in freezer ;)
[06:01] <Darkside> and fail
[06:01] <LeoBodnar> B-11 has LiPo
[06:01] <Darkside> enkidu: do NOT use them.
[06:01] <Darkside> urgh
[06:01] <WD8MNV> I could do w/o 160 meters,,, there are ones that cut off at 1800 khz... but they are like $75
[06:02] <Darkside> its not recommended
[06:02] <Darkside> if your payload fails we'll just say 'told you so'
[06:02] <LeoBodnar> LiFePo4 is 50% less energy density
[06:02] <enkidu> dont worry, my payload will not start til december ;)
[06:02] <Darkside> we strongly STRONGLY recommnd energizer lithiums
[06:02] <LeoBodnar> It won't :)
[06:02] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: what temp has yout payload got down to?
[06:02] <LeoBodnar> 3.74V and charging
[06:02] <LeoBodnar> -30C
[06:03] <Darkside> hrm
[06:03] <Darkside> we've had payloads with lipos fail
[06:03] <WD8MNV> energizer lithium is a primary cell... non-rechargable?
[06:03] <LeoBodnar> I am a refusenik
[06:03] <Darkside> WD8MNV: yes, but they work down to -50degC and below
[06:03] <Darkside> and dont lose capacity
[06:03] <LeoBodnar> LiPo rechargeable cell
[06:03] <Darkside> unlike lipo and li-ions
[06:03] <LeoBodnar> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/055a7e5147d3a7258f07a652d4cda64c click battery voltage
[06:04] <Darkside> yeahi see
[06:04] <Darkside> anywaym payloads have failed with lipos
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[06:05] <LeoBodnar> 4 days is good enough for me at the moment
[06:06] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: B-12 had smaller LiPo and it seems to have failed miserably
[06:06] <LeoBodnar> So it is careful selection process, not a random LiPo
[06:07] <Darkside> i still wouldn't rcommend it for a first launch
[06:07] <LeoBodnar> smaller/different brand
[06:07] <LeoBodnar> agreed
[06:07] <WD8MNV> can't use 18650 type?
[06:07] <LeoBodnar> B-10 has overcharged LiPo
[06:07] <Darkside> WD8MNV: even worse
[06:07] <Darkside> lithium ions fail before lipos do
[06:07] <Darkside> -25degC iirc
[06:08] <enkidu> 18650 is waste of space and weight
[06:08] <Darkside> yes
[06:08] <enkidu> it is generally cell inside double shell
[06:08] <Darkside> energizer lithiums are one of the best batteries for energy density
[06:08] <Darkside> ridiculously light
[06:08] <Darkside> and 3Ah per AA cell
[06:09] <LeoBodnar> Yes, but I need 10 gram payload for 4 days flight...
[06:11] <Darkside> heh
[06:12] <Darkside> dammit where did my paracetemol go
[06:12] <LeoBodnar> LiFePO4 is ideal but I can't get any cells lighter than 15 g
[06:14] <Upu> morning
[06:14] <Upu> Crema back online ?
[06:14] <LeoBodnar> Morning, massive QRM
[06:15] <LeoBodnar> but managed this: $Bry1,2799,05282 edC4.9832,5.0896O8886,6,-11e.74n.54*b771 $$B-11ti,053058,44.9963,5.0844,8909,7,-MK,3Cn5,o N57*Mn25
[06:17] <LeoBodnar> Are narrow filters on these receivers true IF filters or just audio ?
[06:17] <LeoBodnar> Oh, IC-R9000, must be true IF
[06:18] <Upu> $$B-11,2800,053058,44.9963,5.0844,8909,7,- ,3 5,0.57*
[06:18] <Upu> fill in the blanks :)
[06:18] <enkidu> but still they could have WEBSDR support
[06:19] <LeoBodnar> I think my flight doc either expired or is going to
[06:19] <Upu> ok so its well into France
[06:20] <LeoBodnar> Voltage is 3.75v
[06:20] <LeoBodnar> Solar 0.57v
[06:20] <Upu> call it -9 'c ?
[06:20] <LeoBodnar> yeah about so
[06:20] <Upu> ok
[06:21] <enkidu> f0fyf could take it, but he is offline
[06:23] <LeoBodnar> Not a single French station :)
[06:23] <enkidu> closest by now
[06:23] <Upu> didn't take it for some reason
[06:24] <LeoBodnar> doc expired?
[06:24] <Upu> would still appear
[06:24] <enkidu> not for me
[06:25] <Upu> I can't see the pips on crema
[06:25] <LeoBodnar> They faded away.
[06:25] <smrtz> Is there a webpage where I can monitor B-11s progress?
[06:25] <LeoBodnar> I guess mountains are in the way
[06:26] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[06:26] <Upu> afk a few
[06:26] <LeoBodnar> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=B-11
[06:26] <smrtz> Thanks!
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[06:27] <smrtz> What's the point near Grenoble represent? Also, it's back at launch?
[06:28] <HanzZ> So what happend to B-11?
[06:29] <x-f> B-11 currently is in France near Grenoble
[06:30] <LeoBodnar> It transmitted flight log and this confused the tracking website. Wait for another update
[06:30] <LeoBodnar> (maybe a while)
[06:30] <LeoBodnar> Crema needs tuning and I can't :\
[06:31] <LeoBodnar> STill flying HanzZ - approaching Lyon soon
[06:31] <Upu> tunind to what ?
[06:31] <HanzZ> LeoBodnar: thanks
[06:31] <HanzZ> I thought it's back home already :)
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[06:31] <LeoBodnar> can you tune to 434.499.500 and set narrow filter?
[06:31] <smrtz> Ok, thanks LeoBodnar.
[06:32] <smrtz> HanzZ: So did I.
[06:32] <LeoBodnar> The modem will be on 1534
[06:32] <LeoBodnar> thanks Upu
[06:32] <Upu> sure narrow ?
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[06:33] <LeoBodnar> Yeah
[06:33] <enkidu> narrow is 3kHz, more than enough
[06:33] <LeoBodnar> It probably does not help intermods
[06:33] <Upu> not on my screen
[06:33] <Upu> looks like 1khz
[06:33] <LeoBodnar> It's more lice CW but perfect for Domex
[06:34] <Upu> ok afk shower
[06:34] <LeoBodnar> ditto
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[06:41] <LeoBodnar> I think these filters are just digital audio processing rubbish
[06:41] <Darkside> hrm
[06:41] <Darkside> so Upu, you reckon THOR is the next step?
[06:42] <Upu> for normal telemetry yes
[06:42] <Darkside> ok
[06:42] <Upu> not for the higher speed stuff
[06:42] <Darkside> yeah
[06:42] <Upu> packet data is where I see it going eventually
[06:43] <LeoBodnar> FFT process the whole packet, not on the bit level maybe
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[06:59] <ChrisMc> ,
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[07:09] <enkidu> yeah, TWR received
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[07:10] <x-f> what is it?
[07:10] <enkidu> flight Tower
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[07:13] <enkidu> there are many interesting frequencies in airband
[07:16] <enkidu> also my rtl stick has 1300hz drift
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[07:31] <keydashwork> hi
[07:34] <fsphil> morning
[07:34] <HixWork> ello
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> I think this 2013-09-05 16:40:09 datapoint makes all French think B-11 is dead
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> allo allo
[07:36] <enkidu> conference
[07:38] <enkidu> what is it?
[07:38] <HixWork> enkidu http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
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[07:41] <eroomde> Upu, is there a whiteboard/blackboard/ohp in the classroom do you know?
[07:41] <Upu> yes
[07:42] <Upu> projector etc
[07:42] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/general:qa165_from_back_entrance_at_angle.jpg?id=general%3Aukhasconference2013
[07:42] <Upu> thats yours
[07:42] <eroomde> ok
[07:42] <Upu> no pressure :/
[07:42] <eroomde> i doubt we could fill that even if everyone came :)
[07:42] <fsphil> fixed that B-11 point
[07:43] <keydashwork> if I could i'd go to the conference
[07:43] <eroomde> do you know (long shot no reason why you should) if the OHP has the appropriate rolls of transparency involved?
[07:44] <keydashwork> but don't have money for the plane + hotel
[07:44] <keydashwork> x
[07:44] <keydashwork> xD
[07:44] <enkidu> I think, that properly weighted balloons could be nice for realtime weather data
[07:45] <DL7AD> good morning
[07:45] <eroomde> s/involved/installed
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> thanks fsphil !
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[07:48] <Upu> no idea eroomde
[07:48] <eroomde> ok not to worry
[07:49] <eroomde> doesn't look like the windows have blinds anyway so ohp might be optimistic
[07:49] <eroomde> will bring board markers
[07:50] <Upu> B-11 is drawing an enormous pair of testes over France
[07:51] <enkidu> and I was pretty sure, that genital drawing is for elementary schoolers
[07:51] <eroomde> i wonder if it'll still be up at the conference
[07:51] <eroomde> that would be fun
[07:51] <eroomde> anyway i musn't be on irc.
[07:51] <Upu> might be able to use it for a live tracking demo :)
[07:51] <eroomde> thanks for answering q upu
[07:51] <Upu> thx eroomde :)
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[07:51] <fsphil> think it'll come within range of greenwich again?
[07:52] <Upu> not sure
[07:53] <Upu> lets do a hyspli
[07:53] <enkidu> we did already. north africa atm
[07:53] <enkidu> in three days
[07:53] <HixWork> once B111 has finished its testes, reckon it'll head up to Norway, do a nice 180 loop then head back :)
[07:54] <HixWork> hmm few launches ahead there :/
[07:55] <enkidu> should I mail f0fyf if he is able to start receiving?
[07:55] <HixWork> Upu are you tracking B11 on global tuner?
[07:55] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18011_trj001.gif
[07:55] <Upu> no
[07:55] <Upu> its out of range
[07:56] <Upu> F6AIU is the best bet at the moment
[07:56] <enkidu> toulouse dont have ssb
[07:56] <HixWork> what is the M0UPU-MANUAL thing?
[07:57] <Upu> I fixed and uploaded a string someone posted
[07:57] <HixWork> are you just manually updating the map based on strings posted
[07:57] <HixWork> ha
[07:57] <HixWork> like that then
[07:58] <enkidu> f6aiu is online on twitter
[07:58] <enkidu> (or was half an hour ago)
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[08:09] <Laurenceb_> nice
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> Nice
[08:09] <Laurenceb_> 84.7hours float
[08:09] <Laurenceb_> well - flight
[08:09] <Laurenceb_> new amateur record
[08:14] <Laurenceb_> just need some listeners in france
[08:15] <enkidu> anyone mailed f0fyf?
[08:15] <Laurenceb_> heh predictions show yet another loop
[08:16] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[08:16] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[08:22] <enkidu> M6JCX should prepare for reception in the evening
[08:24] <LeoBodnar> Looks like he is our only chance
[08:24] <enkidu> I mailed french guys
[08:25] <enkidu> they have 2h break at 12 so they could be able to start reception
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[08:26] <LeoBodnar> cool thanks enkidu
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[08:26] <enkidu> but I dont know, if they will
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[08:37] <gonzo_> I see the conf is on the map. Are we going to see a number of android 'chace' cars going to recover it??
[08:37] <gonzo_> chase
[08:38] <enkidu> it cold draw path with year number
[08:38] <enkidu> could*
[08:40] <erpayo> which temperature sensor do you use? I'm testing TMP36 and I'm not satisfied with results
[08:41] <Babs> nice touch on whoever set up the conference spacenear plot
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[08:42] <fsphil> gonzo_: I'll give it a go :)
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[08:44] <WillDWork> what's the state of play with the B flights?
[08:44] <enkidu> no receivers, B11 still airborne, b12 dead radio
[08:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> UpuWork, Are the readings tour manually adding hitting the habitat db or only the tracker ?
[08:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> *your
[08:45] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[08:53] <WillDWork> has B11 run out of steam at last?
[08:53] <enkidu> no
[08:53] <enkidu> there are no active receivers
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[08:56] <PE2G> Hi all, I was hoping for miraculous propagation conditions this morning. But alas :)
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[08:59] <enkidu> odenwald taken
[09:00] <ike> what happend to Li-po bvattery when it goes to 0? Does it short or does it behave like it's not there?
[09:01] <enkidu> electrodes degrade, shortage in frozen state seems not possible
[09:01] <enkidu> but when it comes to charge, battery just shorts
[09:01] <Laurenceb_> yeah - seems like B12 battery was screwed by the cold
[09:02] <Laurenceb_> for some reason B11 is ok - but they were different batteries
[09:02] <Laurenceb_> some lipo cells seem to be rated for lower temperature
[09:04] <enkidu> its not really temperature
[09:04] <enkidu> if battery gets discharged low electrode degrades
[09:04] <enkidu> but in low temperatures ion movement is limited, so electrodes degrade very quickly
[09:04] <ike> LeoBodnar does your payload have protective schottky diodes?
[09:05] <ike> agains shorts in battery or charge circut
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[09:06] <ike> enkidu aren't low temp better for Li-pos?
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[09:06] <SpeedEvil> ike: not for charging
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> it depends - some li-ion at least recover after discharge to 0
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> (this is not recommended)
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[09:07] <SpeedEvil> - at least a few cells I accidentally took to 0 recovered with only 20% loss of capacity
[09:07] <enkidu> for discharging either. anyways, there is hard to find proper batteries
[09:08] <ike> that is good only 20% loss
[09:09] <enkidu> http://www.powerstream.com/LLL-low-temp.htm
[09:09] <SpeedEvil> However - these were 1300mAh 18650s - so it was a while ago
[09:09] <SpeedEvil> And other apparantly similar cells diddn't recover
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[09:14] <enkidu> http://www.wewinbattery.com/en/html/products/2012-2-4/201224161128.html
[09:16] <navrac_work_> i like the description of the battery ' there will be no leakage or flatulence' thats good news
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[09:17] <enkidu> still, they can be charged at positive temperatures
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[09:17] <navrac_work_> the biggest problem i found with lipos was charging them when it was below zero - that killed them dead
[09:17] <nats`> hi
[09:17] <enkidu> styrofoam plus sacrificing one watt from solars to heat it up
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[09:19] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: Little black lined box, with a couple of layers of bubblewrap on the top
[09:19] <navrac_work_> I think LeoBodnars approach of using a black heaqtshrink casing is keeping them warm in daylight and thats when the solar cells start charging has overcome the problem And at night his power saving is keeping the discharge current low enough to prevent damage
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[09:20] <SpeedEvil> Or, indeed, black heatshrink - a twist of bubble wrap might increase his temperature though
[09:20] <x-f> nice, F0ERP is RXing B-11
[09:20] <navrac_work_> yep just saw that - good news
[09:21] <enkidu> one I couldnt contact
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[09:22] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[09:22] <LeoBodnar> Woohoo!
[09:23] <Upu> its back :)
[09:23] <ike> I think that B12 should be somewhere near B11
[09:23] <Upu> ok so you have the duration record leo congrats
[09:23] <enkidu> it should be, but not necessarily
[09:24] <ike> Upu doesn't nasa have more long flights?
[09:24] <enkidu> f0erp would have found it too
[09:24] <Upu> oh yes but they aren't amateurs under a party balloon :)
[09:24] <ike> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9848989/NASA-science-balloon-breaks-longest-flight-record.html
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[09:25] <enkidu> 55 days, UV will kill it
[09:26] <enkidu> http://www.google.com/loon/
[09:26] <enkidu> competitors arrive
[09:26] <SpeedEvil> enkidu: PET - is quite resistant to UV
[09:27] <enkidu> polyethylene is, of course
[09:28] <enkidu> when will B-11 commit log dump?
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[09:28] <gonzo_> I wonder hoe "the sparse population in the southernmost" makes a long duration flight poss?
[09:28] <gonzo_> how
[09:28] <ike> enkidu every 2 hours
[09:28] <HixWork> Woo hoo Xperia Z1 pre-ordered
[09:28] <Upu> even hours
[09:28] <JDat> Hello!
[09:28] <Upu> so an hour and a half
[09:28] <Upu> hi JDat
[09:29] <JDat> Please confirm Zinoo2.0 flight documents
[09:29] <gonzo_> even hrs gmt ?
[09:29] <JDat> we are going to launch tomorrow
[09:29] <Upu> UTC
[09:29] <JDat> all times are in GMT
[09:29] <JDat> plannet launch on 9:00 GMT
[09:30] <JDat> or UTC :)
[09:30] <enkidu> battery will not last too long
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[09:31] <enkidu> it is charging faster and faster every day
[09:31] <G4MYS> Do we have a frequency for " Conference" please Andy
[09:32] <Upu> frequency for what ?
[09:32] <x-f> G4MYS, it hasn't launched yet :)
[09:32] <Upu> its not a real payload :)
[09:32] <Upu> I just put it on there as a marker
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[09:33] <x-f> hi, JDat
[09:33] <JDat> x-f Hi!
[09:33] <HixWork> heh NOTAM would be a bit tricky for Conference's location :)
[09:33] <JDat> :)
[09:35] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: there is a bug in log transmission code that makes it transmit only 26 entries out of 64 so it is useless (for the next 5 days)
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[09:36] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[09:36] <Upu> LeoBodnar your flight doc needs extending
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> make it 2two days
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> How do I do that?
[09:37] <Upu> not sure
[09:37] <Upu> ask someone on #habhub :)
[09:40] <JDat> Upu ! Zinoo2 fly docs confirmed?
[09:40] <Upu> checking
[09:40] <JDat> after 8 hours we will start tests with web tracker
[09:40] <Upu> Zinoo2 test flight ?
[09:41] <JDat> mening we will star transmit test data and will chet that web tracker is working
[09:41] <JDat> Yes
[09:41] <JDat> Zinoo2 test flight
[09:41] <G4MYS> x-f thank you for the info! thought Id take a liten but no point then! any news of B11?
[09:42] <Chetic> JDat: chet
[09:43] <JDat> Thank You!
[09:43] <Chetic> it's my nick-nickname :p
[09:43] <x-f> G4MYS, no other news about B-11, it is still alive and over France
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[09:44] <G4MYS> Many thanks glad to hear its still up somewhere, will look out for it this evening when I can turn Rx back on !!
[09:45] <ike> Upu are you the boss of http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[09:45] <Upu> nope we don't have a boss really
[09:45] <Upu> I run the hardware
[09:45] <ike> who run software
[09:45] <Upu> Habhub tram
[09:45] <Upu> team
[09:45] <daveake> off the rails those guys
[09:46] <Upu> baaaah dum
[09:47] <Upu> approved JDat
[09:47] <ike> Upu I had OCD and it gets me that you don't accept BCD or binary data
[09:47] <ike> Encoding BCD or binary data
[09:47] <Upu> ike -> #habhub
[09:47] <Upu> and be patient :)
[09:47] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure binary data is fine
[09:47] <mattbrejza> thats what kraken sends after all
[09:48] <JDat> Upu ! TNX
[09:51] <JDat> Wish me a flight in adverse weather :D
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[09:51] <WillDWork> my X-50 colinear has arrived :)
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[09:52] <WillDWork> Upu - fsphil - did you make your own cables up?
[09:52] <fsphil> WillDWork: yep
[09:52] <Upu> yep
[09:53] <WillDWork> should be fun - didn't you do a timelapse of putting up the antenna upu?
[09:53] <Upu> yeah but the big one
[09:54] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Gwm530L3M
[09:56] <enkidu> what do you think of using these small SAW filters designed for 433.92 as UHF bandpass filters?
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[09:58] <ike> enkidu like this ? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=82
[09:58] <nats`> enkidu usually you loose some dB using that but the filter is really great
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[09:59] <enkidu> the preamp is good idea, but I was thinking of this: http://www.gamma.pl/katalog/rezonatory-filtry-i-zrodla-czestotliwosci/filtry-saw-rf/filtry-saw-rf-przewlekane/rfm-rf3404-433-92-mhz-saw-filter.html
[10:00] <enkidu> sorry for kilometer of link
[10:00] <gonzo_> put the filter after the LNA, then the loss is not that important
[10:00] <Upu> replay coming up
[10:01] <enkidu> gonzo_: I have to put it before lna, because I got FM band all over
[10:02] <ike> I have no idea why they are so expensive http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-SAW-resonator-433-4pin-433MHZ-R433A-/141019858158?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d57044ee
[10:02] <enkidu> dont know either
[10:02] <enkidu> in smd package I can buy them for ~1$
[10:03] <gonzo_> ahead of the LNA will ruin your NF. Using a good high dynamic range LNA shoudl eb doable these days
[10:04] <enkidu> I live 150m away from 20kW broadcast station
[10:04] <enkidu> of course I can use LNA but only as buffer and with no more than 3db gain
[10:04] <gonzo_> have a look at: http://www.g4ddk.com/PGA103+2.pdf
[10:05] <gonzo_> try putting some series tunes ccts on the input to notch the b'cast out
[10:05] <ike> enkidu make BBB+SDR receiving station somewhere on hill top
[10:05] <gonzo_> you can get some quite high atten that way
[10:06] <enkidu> so: fm blocker between antenna and lna, then filters, then another amplifier to boost signal to needed level
[10:06] <gonzo_> I have one of those PGA LNAs for 2mtrs, with some notches at 70 and 50MHz, to stop very high erps on field days
[10:07] <gonzo_> the gain of those PGA devices, you will prob not need a second stage
[10:08] <gonzo_> gain of 20dB is easy. And even wuith the saw loss, it's still a good overall gain
[10:08] <gonzo_> but otherwise, as you said
[10:09] <gonzo_> put the unit in a good screened box too, otherwise pickup could get passed your filtering
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[10:10] <gonzo_> and using a monoband antenna will help keep out the 100meg signals. Using a dual band ant may not help
[10:10] <enkidu> not a problem, I would be making some aluminium pipe screened devices, so amplifier will end up in a can too
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[10:14] <enkidu> f6aiu online, maybe will get the reception
[10:15] <fsphil> hah, it's still flying
[10:16] <fsphil> battery seems to be holding up well
[10:16] <mattbrejza> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13458_trj001.gif hmm
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[10:16] <mattbrejza> i might have done something wrong though
[10:17] <fsphil> africa. drat
[10:17] <enkidu> mattbrejza: this is what I had too
[10:17] <fsphil> the altitude on that prediction drops .. I doubt that'll happen
[10:17] <fsphil> will change the long term results
[10:17] <mattbrejza> it at least goes in the range of the central eu trackers
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[10:20] <LeoBodnar> <mattbrejza> im fairly sure binary data is fine \\ I want to know the details!
[10:21] <Upu> Leo Saturday :)
[10:21] <mattbrejza> ask #habhub :P
[10:21] <mattbrejza> but if you want to start sending binary data probably best we look to put together a new packet format
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> I have seen some interesting use of two identical antennas spaced 1 wavelength apart that almost cancel lower freq interference if oriented correctly
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> And signals are summed
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> Need some geometry tweaking but works very well
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> Phased grid array of two antennas basically
[10:24] <enkidu> but two directional antennas?
[10:24] <mattbrejza> there are some really neat things you can do with multiple antennas, im not sure what would work best though
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: you had vertical velocity != 0, try isobaric
[10:25] <mattbrejza> oh right
[10:25] <LeoBodnar> Upu: cool! Won't sleep until I know
[10:25] <Upu> lol
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> no enkidu, natural nulling the unwanted signal
[10:26] <mattbrejza> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13932_trj001.gif
[10:26] <mattbrejza> hmm
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> Back over Alps and Italy. It's like a groundhog day
[10:27] <enkidu> no way
[10:28] <gonzo_> phasing antennas is creating a broardside or endfire directional array. (Depending on the spacing)
[10:28] <LeoBodnar> enkidu: http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-mfj1026.htm
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[10:29] <enkidu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14103_trj001.gif
[10:29] <enkidu> eat this
[10:29] <LeoBodnar> There are also magnets that reduce car fuel use if kept near fuel line and novelty golf ball finders
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> Joking, but this box seems to work well and I can't see a reason why not. But need two antennas
[10:31] <enkidu> in extended model it ends up in Africa or on Pacific
[10:31] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: MIMO array? :P
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> Yarp
[10:32] <mattbrejza> not sure that works on LoS channels
[10:32] <gonzo_> that's only an HF unit. I thought the problem was very high power 100MHZ causing problems on 434MHz rx?
[10:32] <mattbrejza> and you need to change how you transmit
[10:33] <ike> LeoBodnar I think that there is a need for 2 new bin packet format one that is full and the other 1byte for minutes past current hour 2 bytes for BCD long, 2 bytes for BCD lat, 1 byte for alt (25600m = 256 and 9100m=91) and 1 byte for xor checksum so 1+2+2+1+1 that is 7 bytes every 3 seconds instead of beeps
[10:33] <LeoBodnar> Just an idea gonzo_ maybe you can take it further! 70cm is nice because you can play with stuff within a comfortable space
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> Why BCD ike ?
[10:34] <ike> it's cheaper than ASCII
[10:34] <ike> and easy to implement
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> radio time is the most expensive resource
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> both UHF and GPS
[10:35] <gonzo_> the MJF box has a local picup any that will hear the local noise, but not the dx signal. Then you adjust theb phase and amolitude of the local sig to cancell the main noise+DX signal
[10:35] <ike> foe example Position: 46.6863,5.096 is = 6863,0960 - 4bytes
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> It's better to start from scratch otherwise we will end up with an ugly bodge like APRS packet
[10:35] <mattbrejza> xor checksum -> ¬.¬
[10:35] <ike> LeoBodnar but toy RX beeps anyway
[10:35] <ike> X25 - blast from the past
[10:36] <gonzo_> more of a braaaaap than a blast
[10:36] <mattbrejza> new sentence discussion will probably happen at the conf
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[10:36] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[10:36] <ike> you can aways TX legacy data + new bin one
[10:37] <LeoBodnar> I have horror memories of HDLC i have used in late 80's
[10:38] <gonzo_> binary rathe than ascii data would be more efficient, though not as nice to watch
[10:38] <gonzo_> lat/lon will crunch down to 8bytes
[10:38] <mattbrejza> if the decoding program knows the binary format it can 'convert' to ascii for the user
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> If dl-fldigi outputs decoded binary as it receives it will as much pleasure to watch as RTTY
[10:38] <enkidu> 8 bytes yu can acchieve with floats
[10:39] <mattbrejza> also multiple gps positions in one sentence
[10:39] <mattbrejza> 10Hz updates :D
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> future proofing is always nice
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> future is >= next week
[10:40] <mattbrejza> i was thinking sending differences rather than say 20 absolute positions
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> I-frames
[10:40] <mattbrejza> have a few fields for packet tpye/structure, number of positions and so on
[10:40] <gonzo_> becomes a prob when packets go missing
[10:40] <mattbrejza> well only send differences within one frame
[10:40] <mattbrejza> frame/packet/sentence
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> Or have two frame types like in DV
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> any modern video really
[10:41] <zyp> so in other words, reinvent compression?
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> Send full frame every 30 transmissions and differences in between
[10:41] <mattbrejza> a full gps position is only like 12 bytes?
[10:42] <mattbrejza> +time
[10:42] <LeoBodnar> Just use something that's already out there with proven codebase
[10:42] <gonzo_> would be better to send full positions every time, as opasket loss is usually at the most critical time, ie landing
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> +1
[10:42] <LeoBodnar> 8 bytes is enough probably
[10:42] <gonzo_> when airborne, updates need not be so fast anyway, as it;'s a big sky up there
[10:43] <enkidu> 4 bytes per dimension: 32bit float on lat and 32bit float on lon, 8bytes
[10:43] <LeoBodnar> It's a user, not protocol problem, e.g. switch mode below 1000m etc
[10:43] <gonzo_> float=yuck
[10:43] <LeoBodnar> use only absolute position frames below 1000m
[10:43] <keydashwork> hey men
[10:43] <mattbrejza> ublox outputs 4 byte fixed point for gps?
[10:43] <keydashwork> what's the weightless 9v battery?
[10:44] <enkidu> gonzo_: reinvent coords with chars. yuck.
[10:44] <Laurenceb> wow
[10:44] <Laurenceb> 90hours flight time
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> Yeah but it's like sub-mm precision in 4 bytes
[10:45] <mattbrejza> so the distance the payload goes in say 1s is less than 1 byte per dimension?
[10:45] <Laurenceb> alternativly just use a beacon
[10:45] <Laurenceb> and have a barometer on there
[10:45] <Laurenceb> then only rebroadcast if something happens
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> 4 bytes = 4*10^9
[10:45] <Laurenceb> otherwise every hour or so
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[10:46] <mattbrejza> will have to be careful with how many bits are used in the differences
[10:46] <gonzo_> fixed format, 100ths of minutes will give 4bytes per dim. Simple and debuggable (and no floating point lib to add to the unreliability)
[10:46] <mattbrejza> could vary from packet to packet though
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: not that careful
[10:46] <mattbrejza> i guess theres not too much to it
[10:46] <enkidu> float mantis is 24bits
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: send a 'degrees' packet every 10 minutes packets, forex
[10:47] <mattbrejza> more careful than i was just now by pouring water down myself anyway
[10:47] <Laurenceb> just send position a few times every hour
[10:47] <Laurenceb> ie on the hour a few times
[10:47] <Laurenceb> beacon inbetween
[10:48] <Laurenceb> then use air pressure to detect anything happening
[10:48] <Laurenceb> adn start broadcasting if it fluctuates too much
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> Just give users a massive variety of packet options and let them decide themselves
[10:49] <mattbrejza> and if they cant cope with the choice they can use rtty :P
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> There are mighty clever guys out there
[10:49] <Laurenceb> it seems that some extra free lift improves the stability a lot
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> Yeah. Shit! Butane is still in the freezer!!!
[10:50] <mattbrejza> just need a few bytes header for number of 'differences', length, time between
[10:50] <Laurenceb> some weird stuff on ascent, but that was prob cloud
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[10:51] <LeoBodnar> Original wobble?
[10:51] <Laurenceb> im tempted to make a micro rogallo
[10:51] <Laurenceb> for picoballoon launch
[10:51] <Laurenceb> as it first ascended
[10:52] <Laurenceb> there are 3gram servos available..
[10:52] <Laurenceb> in fact
[10:52] <Laurenceb> maybe a picoballoon/rogallo is possible
[10:52] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: I did not get any answere from France. Thumbs Up for B-11 ;) Hope that it is visiting Berlin.
[10:52] <Laurenceb> payload drops off after several days and does controlled descent
[10:52] <Laurenceb> kind of silly but cool
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: Butane is frozen and won't flow. Drips when can is turned over.
[10:53] <Laurenceb> hmm wut
[10:53] <Laurenceb> sounds like it was pure butane
[10:53] <Laurenceb> maybe you got air in at first
[10:54] <Laurenceb> good news i guess
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: http://www.microflight.com/Online-Catalog/Actuators-and-Servos
[10:54] <Laurenceb> wow 2.5g
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[10:55] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0191.jpg?w=800
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> Why servos? Use magnet+coil
[10:55] <Laurenceb> mine was heavier
[10:55] <Laurenceb> for CofG shift a magnet isnt going to work
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> Ah, ok, got you
[10:55] <enkidu> f6aiu is receiving
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[10:56] <LeoBodnar> I have 1g servo somewhere, let me see if I can link it
[10:56] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:ukhas_glider_project:pict7921.jpg?w=700
[10:56] <Laurenceb> 90hours flight time now
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholesale-1.5g-servo.html 1.5grams
[10:57] <Laurenceb> amateur record smashed
[10:57] <Darkside> haha
[10:57] <Darkside> ant i bet the PBH flight was with a zero pressure
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:58] <Laurenceb> yes, and it was a collaboration with Lockheed martin
[10:58] <Darkside> lol
[10:58] <daveake> <> amateur
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[10:58] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: have you any thoughts as to maximum longevity - assuming the balloon holds up?
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> Well, does this qualify for a HAB as in where "H" starts?
[10:59] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar: YOU ROCK
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It's higher than my ladder, so sure.
[11:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Congratulations LeoBodnar :D
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[11:01] <LeoBodnar> Cheers guys! I haven't done much to be honest for the last few days :)
[11:01] <Lunar_LanderU> B-11 still working?
[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Don't forget to ask for another extension Friday evening !
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> I am amateur - I am only doing it for the last 3 months
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[11:02] <Ugi> impressive work with B-11! What's the flight-time now?
[11:03] <Ugi> must be close to a record-breaker
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> 90:13
[11:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Spectacular!
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[11:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.ucar.edu/communications/staffnotes/0404/marcel.html
[11:05] <Laurenceb> record is 744days
[11:05] <Laurenceb> some time to go...
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[11:05] <Lunar_LanderU> cool, thanks Laurenceb
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar: B-11 still in operation?
[11:06] <Laurenceb> YES
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> Yes
[11:06] <Laurenceb> he said that 2 minutes ago
[11:06] <Laurenceb> calm down
[11:07] <Lunar_LanderU> sorry didn't get that xD
[11:07] Nick change: arko_lax -> arko_uk
[11:07] <arko_uk> ENGLAND
[11:07] <Laurenceb> welcome
[11:07] <LeoBodnar> arko_uk has landed
[11:08] <arko_uk> :)
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Make the most of the last day of good weather.
[11:08] <arko_uk> Haha, I want rain
[11:08] <enkidu> a wild f8bnn appeared
[11:08] <arko_uk> Its always sunny where I am
[11:10] <arko_uk> On a train to Paddington now
[11:10] <Lunar_LanderU> hi arko_uk
[11:10] <arko_uk> Yo
[11:11] <number10> welcome arko_uk - we shall do a rain dance and you should get some rain by tomorrow
[11:11] <arko_uk> Awesome
[11:12] <arko_uk> I've been sweating in sunny 34C Los angeles
[11:12] <arko_uk> Its time for cold weather already!
[11:12] <arko_uk> UK is beautiful
[11:12] <number10> parts of it - certianly not heathrow
[11:12] <arko_uk> At least what I flew over
[11:12] <arko_uk> No way
[11:13] <arko_uk> Heathrow was crappy
[11:13] <Darkside> woah
[11:13] <Darkside> its arko
[11:13] <Darkside> in the uk
[11:14] <number10> dont go telling evryone you have your long pants on
[11:14] <number10> they may get the wrong idea over hear as we dont bother saying under - when referring to underpants
[11:14] <number10> here
[11:16] <x-f> "However, in Britain, the word "pants" generally means underpants and not trousers." (wikipedia)
[11:17] <Upu> hey arko_uk
[11:17] <Upu> welcome :)
[11:17] <Babs> morning arko - ahh, you got suckered by the con that is the Heathrow express
[11:17] <Upu> got your SIM card then :)
[11:17] <Upu> hu
[11:17] <Upu> HEathrow Express is great
[11:17] <Upu> quick
[11:17] <Laurenceb> its on if you get a ticket in advance
[11:17] <Laurenceb> *ok
[11:18] <Laurenceb> prices seem quite variable
[11:18] <Laurenceb> tube takes forever
[11:18] <Babs> it's pretty expensive compared with the tube.
[11:18] <Upu> well yes but its quickest way into London
[11:18] <Upu> and quite tidy
[11:18] <Upu> at least it was when I used it
[11:19] <Babs> it is nice and tidy. and has wifi.
[11:19] <Laurenceb> only £20 or so return in advance
[11:19] <Upu> right afk
[11:19] <Babs> pah, what am i saying. my wife is spending all the money now.
[11:19] <Laurenceb> now we just need a way to make planes cheap too
[11:19] <Babs> only on Saturday did I realise she doesn't know the word "Ikea"
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Dirigibles!
[11:19] <Laurenceb> about 75% of the fee seems to be fuel
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: not really
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> Just stay where you are!
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It's more 33% fuel 33% staff 33% capital and maintainance - as I understand it
[11:20] <Laurenceb> according to the carbon emission thing on my last ticket
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> Trip to the next village is 2 days feat and adventure of the lifetime
[11:20] <Laurenceb> i was using about 400L of fuel
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - a fully loaded long haul modern jet is way better than any single passenger car, even the most efficient.
[11:22] <Laurenceb> but its still a lot of fuel
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: however - pack 4 people into that car - and the numbers go the other way - at least only considering fuel
[11:22] <Babs> ARKO REMEMBER TO LOOK RIGHT WHEN COMING OUT OF PADDINGTON
[11:22] <Babs> i know shouting is disapproved, but with eroomde down we dont need another speaker dropping out
[11:22] <Laurenceb> and jet fuel isnt that much cheaper than car fuel
[11:22] <Babs> ;-)
[11:22] Action: SpeedEvil decides not to make a _very_ bad joke about marmalade.
[11:22] <Babs> arf SpeedEvil
[11:22] <Babs> never let an opportunity like that pass
[11:22] <Laurenceb> i paid about £400 for a flight that used 400L
[11:23] <Laurenceb> so the fuel is going to be the most significant fraction of the price
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[11:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: In principle - electrically powered planes seem quite feasible.
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> http://authors.library.caltech.edu/3303/1/PARaipcp04a.pdf
[11:24] <Laurenceb> i was wondering about CNG
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> the above is a microwave powered launcher - planes are rather easier
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> Though clearly you can only fly between stages some 100km apart
[11:25] <Laurenceb> hah yeah ive read that paper before
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> it is a cool paper.
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> SpeedEvil: teasing is worse than torture
[11:25] Action: SpeedEvil wants a gyrotron
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: ?
[11:26] <LeoBodnar> marmalade joke please?
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> paddington bear + marmalade - and 'coming out of paddington' - complete it yourself.
[11:26] <Babs> That would be a sticky situation
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[11:27] <LeoBodnar> lol thanks
[11:28] <Laurenceb> any printer experts around
[11:28] <Laurenceb> work print server just vanished and noone to fix it :-/
[11:29] <Laurenceb> i dont know the first thing about network printers
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> Power plug
[11:29] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:29] <Laurenceb> i can't access the server
[11:29] <gonzo_> axe
[11:29] <Laurenceb> doing have a key
[11:29] <Laurenceb> *dont
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> can you ping or telnet into it?
[11:29] <Laurenceb> not sure if its my end or what
[11:30] <Laurenceb> i dont know the ip...
[11:30] <Laurenceb> arggg
[11:30] <Laurenceb> voip phones are all broken....
[11:30] <Laurenceb> funtimes
[11:31] <gonzo_> breakers to the room/building/town?
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> there were utilities that scan networks for presence of printservers. It may have another printer interface open on it.
[11:31] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:31] <Laurenceb> ill scan the network
[11:31] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSljO3DqDDU
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> start a fire and electricity will be shut down
[11:31] <Laurenceb> haha im tempted
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> before sprinklers activate
[11:32] <Laurenceb> would help if people actually turned up to work
[11:32] <Laurenceb> im the only person in the building as usual
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> then proceed to print on a wisely savoured sheet of paper
[11:32] <gonzo_> in response to a terrorist attack, the circuits that cannot be cut ate automatically cut
[11:32] <gonzo_> (watched diehard last week)
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[11:37] <cuddykid> has anyone experience unreliability with pyro cutdowns? most of mine don't fire
[11:37] <cuddykid> (even when continuity check suggests they should)
[11:37] <mattbrejza> needs moar power
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[11:38] <f5mvo> Hello everybody
[11:38] <cuddykid> used 12 AAs and it still doesn't go boom
[11:39] <WD8MNV> what are you using for pyro? have access to electric matches?
[11:39] <cuddykid> using estes rocket igniters
[11:39] <cuddykid> some work but vast majority don't
[11:40] <WD8MNV> i'd try like a 1.2 or 1.5 ohm surface mount resister, and fire it with like a 1000 uF capacotor
[11:40] <mattbrejza> resistor+low melting point cord seems a better option tbh
[11:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> f5mvo, Afternoon!
[11:40] <cuddykid> ping daveake
[11:41] <daveake> pong
[11:41] <f5mvo> great flight B11 ! more french listen coming !
[11:41] <Babs> cuddykid - i've had no problems for a batch that i made
[11:41] <Babs> do you want me to bring one to the conf to compare design etc.?
[11:42] <mattbrejza> bringing explosives on london transport are we?
[11:42] <WD8MNV> are you allowed to use a pyrogen?
[11:42] <cuddykid> unfortunately I'm not going to conf :(
[11:42] <f5mvo> hi G8DHE
[11:42] <Babs> what are you firing them with?
[11:43] <cuddykid> anything from 8AAs up to 12AAs
[11:43] <Babs> i think the issue might be you are using *too much* power
[11:43] <gonzo_> I've made igniters by dipping wire in some glue and rolling in gunpowder. Then bagging up with another pinch of powder in cellotape
[11:43] <WD8MNV> any kind of storage capacitor?
[11:43] <gonzo_> though that was usually with a SLA batt
[11:43] <cuddykid> nope, just direct to batt pack
[11:43] <Babs> i seem to remember eroomde tipping me that too much power can cause them to melt before generating sufficient heat to go off
[11:43] <Babs> have you tried a 9v?
[11:43] <cuddykid> Babs: interesting
[11:44] <cuddykid> I've ran out now!
[11:44] <cuddykid> that could explain
[11:44] <nats`> <WD8MNV> i'd try like a 1.2 or 1.5 ohm surface mount resister, and fire it with like a 1000 uF capacotor <= chewing gum paper
[11:44] <nats`> like prisonners :)
[11:44] <Babs> i have loads http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8462672066/in/set-72157632733154985 - similar design?
[11:45] <Babs> i don't know whether the too much voltage thing is valid as i never tested it, but people on here do more of that kind of thing than i will ever do, so I always assume they know better :-/
[11:45] <cuddykid> yep, mine are like that
[11:45] <nats`> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVf2JssdYWg
[11:45] <cuddykid> Babs: how many AAs do you use to fire yours?
[11:48] <WD8MNV> should be able to fire it w/ a 9V battery
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[11:52] <Darkside> hrm
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[11:52] <Darkside> i use 2xAAs for my cutdown
[11:52] <Darkside> oh wait, igniters
[11:53] <gonzo_> (shotgun powder is more heat sensitive than black powder btw)
[11:53] <mattbrejza> where do you even buy this stuff :/
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[11:54] <gonzo_> most gun shops. It does not need a licene, though most shops will want to see some bit of paperwork to cover themselves
[11:55] <mattbrejza> hmm
[11:55] <gonzo_> anyone with a shotgun licence coudl get it, for reloading shot carts
[11:55] <gonzo_> a handfull id shotgun powder is mighty unimpressive when lit
[11:56] <mattbrejza> id probably go for the resistor technque tbh
[11:56] <gonzo_> but a good steady burn so good for cutdowns
[11:56] <Babs> cuddykid - i tried with 4, didn't go off - went back to it feeling like someone who had never heard the rule about not going back to a lit firework. Tried with a single 9V battery, did this instead http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/9679951628/
[11:57] <Babs> was using the same estes igniters as you, and black powder from some guy in the midlands
[11:58] <HixWork> Babs http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jrs3GXDEr3s
[11:58] <HixWork> ;)
[11:58] <gonzo_> black powder is a pain to light. with a gas lighter tyou will burn your fingers before it goes off
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> Thank you for tracking f5mvo !
[11:59] <Babs> black powder worked ok in those pyros, don't know what it is like in other situations.
[12:00] <Babs> nice hixwork
[12:01] <Babs> HixWork. machined aluminium services. have you ever used any from a hobby perspective, or just to make engine blocks in house?
[12:01] <WD8MNV> once upon a time i did high power rocketry... and used pyrogen coated electric matched to fire a BP charge to eject the chute. worked really well
[12:02] <f5mvo> hi LeoBodnar, no tracking for me, much noise near Paris, the signal not enough strong for me.
[12:02] <Upu> maybe stronger later f5mvo
[12:02] <f5mvo> Upu : perhaps ?
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> Please pass thanks to all French who are tracking then :)
[12:03] <Upu> tbh its going to come within range of Netherlands soon, then Brian in Denmakr
[12:03] <f5mvo> no problem for decoding, another french listen come hi !
[12:03] <Upu> hell if it skirts Poland you're sorted :)
[12:03] <fsphil> and coming around again to poland after visiting finland
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> Lol Tom will probably take care of Poland XD
[12:04] <mattbrejza> just hope he can remote control tough :P
[12:04] <mattbrejza> though
[12:04] <fsphil> we're going to need some stations in Russia if this continues :)
[12:04] <fsphil> ah, loh
[12:04] <fsphil> log
[12:05] <fsphil> messing up my nice and tidy map :)
[12:05] <Upu> shame x-f will be in London on Sat :)
[12:05] <Upu> replay time
[12:05] <Upu> ping fsphil :)
[12:05] <Upu> Toms in the UK too :)
[12:05] <Upu> lol
[12:05] <fsphil> will hit the update when the replay is done
[12:05] <fsphil> sooo need to transmit date
[12:06] <mattbrejza> is he here yet? otherwise he could take a handheld and a audio recorder on the plane...
[12:06] <mattbrejza> not sure if you would rx anything though in a metal cage
[12:06] <Upu> check aprs.fi
[12:06] <Upu> SP9UOB
[12:06] <f5mvo> you have a flight plan to Russia ! Lol
[12:06] <Darkside> mattbrejza: i've workd repeaters from planes
[12:06] <Darkside> :P
[12:06] <Darkside> and hopped on IRC from 10km up
[12:06] <mattbrejza> were they putting out 10mW? :P
[12:06] <Upu> his car is still in Poland
[12:07] <Laurenceb> ooh some new datapoints
[12:07] <fsphil> I did IRC at 11km so there ;)
[12:07] <Upu> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FSP9UOB-9&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[12:07] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: can you use message seq number to primary database key?
[12:07] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: I'm using the sequence number to correct the date
[12:07] <fsphil> since only time is transmitted, the server assumes todays date
[12:08] <mattbrejza> Upu: is he driving to the airport i wonder
[12:08] <Upu> well thats close to airport
[12:08] <Upu> oh maybe not
[12:08] <mattbrejza> if you put trace on hes not at home
[12:08] <Upu> maybe so
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD has APRS in his plane
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> And works 2m while flying
[12:11] <Upu> might not work in a jet with the cocom limits though
[12:11] <mattbrejza> is x-f in the uk yet?
[12:11] <x-f> no, flying tomorrow morning
[12:11] <mattbrejza> ah
[12:11] <Darkside> Upu: eh?
[12:12] <Darkside> i've gotten gps lock in airplanes
[12:12] <Upu> 500 knots
[12:12] <mattbrejza> same
[12:12] <Upu> depends how fast the plane is going ?
[12:12] <mattbrejza> my xoom (tablet) got lock in a plane
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[12:12] <mattbrejza> 800km/h
[12:12] <Darkside> Upu: you're not going high enough
[12:12] <Darkside> onlt 10km
[12:12] <Darkside> only*
[12:12] <mattbrejza> 8-11km
[12:12] <Darkside> mm
[12:12] <Upu> ah ok
[12:12] <mattbrejza> i think we touched 11km
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[12:16] <fsphil> my htc couldn't get a gps lock
[12:16] <fsphil> think the window was too small
[12:17] <ike> so guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSK31 QPSK31 is the best modulation and can be used at all HF bands?
[12:17] <Darkside> er
[12:17] <fsphil> best?
[12:17] <Darkside> i wouldn't say best
[12:18] <Darkside> its probably the most spectrally efficient PSK mode
[12:18] <Darkside> (theoretically anyway)
[12:18] <Darkside> but PSK31 is more popular
[12:18] <ike> which one is better
[12:18] <Darkside> and is proven
[12:18] <ike> QPSK31 looks better to me
[12:18] <Darkside> PSK31 is the most common PSK mode
[12:18] <fsphil> most common by a long way
[12:18] <Darkside> why are you asking about this?
[12:18] <ike> for research
[12:19] <ike> Dl-Fldigi have QPSK31
[12:19] <ike> so it's OK, right?
[12:19] <Darkside> er
[12:19] <Darkside> yes
[12:19] <Darkside> but what for
[12:19] <ike> telemetry
[12:19] <Darkside> from a balloon?
[12:19] <Darkside> PSK is going to be harder to generate than any FSK/MFSK mode
[12:19] <Laurenceb> you need wide bandwidth for best balloon performance
[12:19] <Darkside> as you will need a linear amplifier, which means more power
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[12:20] <Darkside> well, to fo PSK properly anyway
[12:20] <Darkside> to do*
[12:20] <Darkside> without causing massive wideband interference
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[12:20] <Darkside> i've been working on PSK transmission without a linear amplifier, but haven't gotten very far
[12:20] <mattbrejza> could always do MSK which is kinda a QPSK scheme
[12:21] <Darkside> someone explain the benefits of MFSK
[12:21] <Darkside> i need to go
[12:21] <mattbrejza> come to the confere,ce i have a slide on it
[12:21] <ike> OK then, what is the best modulation with class C/E amp?
[12:21] <Darkside> MFSK
[12:21] <Darkside> definitely
[12:21] <Darkside> or anything MFSK related
[12:21] <mattbrejza> C/E are completely different amp types
[12:21] <ike> dominoEX16?
[12:22] <Darkside> mattbrejza: assume monlinearity
[12:22] <Darkside> ike: yep
[12:22] <Darkside> that'kk work
[12:22] <Darkside> or you could implement THOR
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[12:22] <mattbrejza> i might have forgotten what class C is tbh
[12:22] <Darkside> the issue is some MFSK modes use raused cosine pulse shaping
[12:22] <Darkside> and use that pulse shaping for sync
[12:22] <Darkside> you cant do pulse shaping with a class C/E amp easily (it's possible, just a pain)
[12:22] <Darkside> so if you can use a mode *without* pulse shaping, its nice
[12:23] <Darkside> ike: i've made a DDS_based HF transmitter that uses a class-E amp
[12:23] <Darkside> i've implemented domino on it
[12:23] <ike> Darkside can you show me some info about THOR, there is no wiki page about it
[12:23] <Darkside> works nicely
[12:23] <Darkside> google
[12:23] <Darkside> its like dominoEX, but with FEC
[12:23] <fsphil> fldigi source code
[12:23] <Darkside> fsphil: don't say that
[12:23] <Darkside> thats a HORRIBLE suggestion
[12:23] <Darkside> HORRIBLE
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[12:24] <fsphil> useful as a reference
[12:24] <mattbrejza> i assume a pulse shaped mfsk signal isnt constant envelope?
[12:24] <Darkside> heh
[12:24] <ike> Darkside DDS_based HF transmitter that uses a class-E did you publish it somewhere?
[12:24] <Darkside> ike: not yet
[12:24] <Darkside> still writing it up :P
[12:24] <Darkside> haha
[12:24] <Darkside> i used an AD9834 and used the square wave output pin
[12:24] <ike> how do you modulate? with xtal pulling or with frequency setting?
[12:24] <Darkside> frequency settings
[12:24] <Darkside> i can update it at 200KHz
[12:24] <Darkside> more than enough :P
[12:24] <ike> cool
[12:24] <Darkside> i was even able to do PSK250 with it
[12:24] <Darkside> messy as hell
[12:25] <Darkside> but it worked
[12:25] <Darkside> used about 2KHz of bandwidth instead of 250Hz, but thats what hard phase-keying does
[12:25] <ike> Darkside there are cheap DDS on ebay is it possible with them??
[12:25] <Darkside> yeah
[12:25] <Darkside> AD9851
[12:25] <Darkside> look up thaton ebay
[12:25] <Darkside> heaps of cheap modules
[12:25] <Darkside> they cant do good PSK
[12:25] <Darkside> they can do MFSK and FSK fine though
[12:25] <Darkside> though check the datasheet
[12:25] <Darkside> sometimes the frquency resolution isnt good enough for some MFSK modes
[12:26] <ike> what about AD9850 they are cheaper
[12:26] <Darkside> the AD9834 can barely do Domino, the freuqency resolution is only just good enough
[12:26] <Darkside> they are ok
[12:26] <Darkside> the difference is the AD9851 has a internal PKK
[12:26] <Darkside> PLL*
[12:26] <Darkside> so you can use a 30MHz reference oscillator, it multiplies it up to 120MHz, giving you more output frequency range
[12:26] <ike> 180
[12:27] <Darkside> easy
[12:27] <Darkside> yeah
[12:27] <Darkside> thats it
[12:27] <Darkside> you only need a 60MHz reference to get 0-30MHz
[12:27] <ike> more range with less resolution
[12:27] <Darkside> just make sure you filter the output well
[12:27] <Darkside> oh
[12:27] <Darkside> thats the other thing
[12:27] <Darkside> AD9850 doesnt have square wave output
[12:27] <ike> that is the hardest thing
[12:27] <Darkside> unless they implementd it on the board somehow
[12:27] <Darkside> it will hav sine output
[12:27] <Darkside> so you will need to square that then feed into class-E amp
[12:27] <ike> on those cheap modules there are 40MHz filter
[12:27] <Darkside> which is kind of wasteful
[12:28] <Darkside> thats fine
[12:28] <Darkside> with DDS only need to get rid of the reference clock, and ref_clock-output_freq
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[12:28] <Darkside> so a 40MHz output filter shoudl be fine
[12:28] <Darkside> YMMV, check on spec-an
[12:28] <Darkside> ok, i really need to go
[12:28] <Darkside> back later
[12:29] <ike> Darkside there is comparator for square wava in chip but I think it's not good for anytinh greater than 5mhz
[12:29] <ike> but I maybe wrong
[12:29] <ike> bye Darkside
[12:29] <ike> thanks for the info
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[12:30] <LeoBodnar> It's Gray area.
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[12:34] <ike> LeoBodnar how are you making DominoEX16 modulation on si44xx chip? with xtal pulling?
[12:36] <f5mvo> Salut Francis !
[12:38] <f5mvo> F6aiu: ta branché ton aspirateur ?
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> Salut!
[12:38] <f5mvo> hi
[12:41] <f5mvo> F6AIU : ta branchés ton aspirateur ?
[12:42] <DL7AD> back to airplanes. most long range airplanes have their limits at 44000ft altitude
[12:42] <DL7AD> approx
[12:42] <f5mvo> LeoBodnar : B12 is out ?
[12:45] <f5mvo> comment on passe en mp ?
[12:46] <nats`> tu fais /msg nick message
[12:47] <DL7AD> ehm leo said to me, he think b-12 is okay. we just dont receive it du to that area thats currently flying
[12:48] <DL7AD> it could be, thats its coming back. but who knows whats gonna happen....
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> I think B-12 has died because of the inferior battery.
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[12:51] <nats`> LeoBodnar do you let a "message" on the balloon for people to contact you case they find it ?
[12:53] <LeoBodnar> No but it might be a good idea. There is very little space on the balloon payload to put any message on.
[12:54] <Laurenceb> permanent marker on the envelope?
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:54] <f5mvo> Gulfstream V over 45000ft Frankfurt
[12:54] <gonzo_> then drop it on their head to get their attention
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> I think it may degrade the envelope. I put a massive smiley on one of them - can't remember which one :)
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[12:56] <Laurenceb> i guess a little dangling tag
[12:56] <ike> you can put skype or tweeter name
[12:57] <ike> and you can print certificate to give them as a gift to balloon hunters
[12:57] <ike> and mention on balloon page
[12:57] <ike> and some badge and ribons
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> Good idea. I was thinking about giving away £20-£50 for finding and disposing of each of them to stop littering nature with plastic sheets. Does nylon degrade well?
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> Not very, no.
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> Shame. Latex is better in this reagard
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> Or foil.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> (actual foil)
[13:04] <WD8MNV> you couls laser mark the shrink wrap if you had the right gear
[13:04] <Laurenceb> not all foils are environmentally friendly
[13:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.com/patents/US4039378
[13:05] <ike> what is £20?
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Aluminium foil
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> ike: $34
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> Just as a thank you gesture
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[13:06] <LeoBodnar> And to put some restraint on myself how many I can launch :)
[13:06] <ike> most people expect some fat ransom
[13:06] <ike> you know that regular sat cost about 200-400milions
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> They can keep the balloon actually
[13:07] <ike> that is what they expect
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> and the payload
[13:07] <ike> what they can do with payload?
[13:07] <ike> attach party balloon to it LOL
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> It's for fun not profit. Like geocaching but useful
[13:08] <Laurenceb> lol geocaching
[13:08] <Laurenceb> dorkiest thing ever
[13:08] <ike> geocaching in the sky
[13:08] <Laurenceb> NO
[13:08] <Laurenceb> no geocaching pls
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> UHF Fox hunting
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> whatever
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[13:10] <nats`> <LeoBodnar> I think it may degrade the envelope. I put a massive smiley on one of them - can't remember which one :) <= just let the website URL and do a big visible page with title IN CASE YOU FOUND ONE BALLOON
[13:11] <ike> I think that skype name is enough
[13:11] <nats`> and for marking I did some funny experiment with "cyanocrylate marking on polystyrene"
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[13:12] <nats`> you take a duct tape with letter cutted in and put some cyanocrylate over the stencil
[13:12] <mattbrejza> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-23962379 lolz
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> nats`: well - you can test it easily enough and pretty cheaply
[13:13] <nats`> (do you think a yaesu ft-790 refurbished is a good deal at 260 euros ?)
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[13:13] <nats`> SpeedEvil testing what ?
[13:13] <nats`> the cyanocrylate marking ?
[13:14] <mfa298> nats`: the ft-790 has been one of the favourites for people on here not sure what's a decent price though
[13:14] <mfa298> I tihnk in the UK they're around £100 on ebay
[13:15] <PE2G> nats`: for that price, it should be impeccable
[13:15] <nats`> ok good to know since I don't have a HAM license maybe I should go for a RX scanner only VR5000 for example
[13:16] <ike> https://www.google.com/search?q=bird%20tracking&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=94MoUuPcK8WGswaT0oDoBQ&biw=1280&bih=933&sei=-4MoUtrTEsPnswbo8YGIDA
[13:16] <ike> those devices have GPS, GSM, solar
[13:16] <jonititan> I'm looking forward to trying a hackRF. I'm building an input module for 433Mhz at the moment ot make it more sensitive.
[13:16] <mfa298> an alternative if you only want rx is the funcube pro+ dongle, it's an SDR but as sensitive as the comercial ham radios
[13:16] <ike> and when battery start overcharging then they just use more power
[13:17] <nats`> mfa298 I already have some e4k based dongle (I don't know if thefuncube is better) but I search for a clean setup without a computer behind
[13:18] <mfa298> the funcube is a lot better than the RTL dongles.
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[13:18] <PE2G> I still would like to compare my FT-790R to a funcube pro+ (which I don't have yet)
[13:18] <mfa298> but does still require the computer for decoding
[13:19] <mfa298> I've struggled to see much difference between FT817, TS2000 and FCD Pro+
[13:20] <WD8MNV> < got in on the HackRF
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[13:20] <jonititan> the kickstarter? Apparently GSG will also be selling them after all the current orders are fulfilled.
[13:21] <WD8MNV> yep
[13:21] <PE2G> I often notice that the waterfalls of funcube pro+ users are much cleaner than mine on the FT-790-R
[13:21] <PE2G> funcube pro+'s filtering capabilties more extensive
[13:24] <WD8MNV> even if you have to add a filter... you can get a dongle for like $10 these days
[13:24] <f5mvo> funcube Sensitivity: 0.15 uV (12 dB SINAD NBFM at 145/435 MHz !
[13:26] <iain_G4SGX> Noise level is a little higher than most good rigs though.
[13:26] <LeoBodnar> oh not bad at all! And also money paid support fellow HAMs and not a Japanese giant.
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[13:28] <iain_G4SGX> At HF anyway, probably not as bad at VHF/UHF
[13:29] <iain_G4SGX> Good value or money though and a lot of fun, been listening to satellite passes on mine.
[13:29] <LeoBodnar> B-11 almost overhead F6AIU :)
[13:30] <f5mvo> I did not test in hf
[13:31] <f5mvo> its go to G20 also ?
[13:32] <iain_G4SGX> I can only compare to my K3, not a fair comparison.!
[13:32] <nats`> going over G20 space is not a good idea :p
[13:32] <iain_G4SGX> :)
[13:33] <nats`> say hello to NSA and KGB for us LeoBodnar ;)
[13:33] <f5mvo> with no flight plan !
[13:33] <gonzo_> also the FCD contribures to the MASAT satellite building fund (quite significantky)
[13:33] <gonzo_> AMSAT
[13:34] <LeoBodnar> Where is G20?
[13:35] <PE2G> St. Petersburg on September 5-6, 2013
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[13:35] <f5mvo> it does not come back as mini UAVs starting point?
[13:36] <LeoBodnar> I usually leave code protection bits not activated in case some loony from some secret agency gets hold of it.
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[13:36] <mfa298> could B-11 be described as the ultimate hippy, green power and it goes wherever the winds take it.
[13:36] <iain_G4SGX> he he, you sound worried Leo! lol
[13:36] <LeoBodnar> Haha, I'm all for it.
[13:37] <nats`> LeoBodnar you should activate it forcing to at least decap the chip :D
[13:38] <PE2G> I experienced that even sending a met sonde by air-mail is a challenge these days
[13:38] <PE2G> Security someweger cut wires, dismantled the poor sonde
[13:38] <LeoBodnar> THat would secure me a few uncomfortable interviews probably :D
[13:38] <PE2G> *somewhere
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[13:40] <PE2G> Was delivered virtually destroyed
[13:40] <iain_G4SGX> More likely they try and recruit you..
[13:41] <nats`> other very good idea you add a little paper "Drug delivery point"
[13:41] <nats`> :D
[13:41] <nats`> you're pretty sure to see your balloon get back in days :D
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[13:42] <nats`> and free of any charge
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[13:48] <iain_G4SGX> Is there a more recent prediction for B11?
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[13:56] <LeoBodnar> iain_G4SGX: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA.gif
[13:59] <crash_18974> So it appears B11 is going on a world tour. Good job Leo.
[14:02] <iain_G4SGX> Cool, that'll please the polish too, right over..
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> nats`: if the marker degrades the balloon
[14:03] <Laurenceb> any southern russian hams?
[14:04] <x-f> uncharted teritory
[14:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> HeHe lookslike we all got in on the act - in the log ;-)
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Where is it - the tracker seems confused and has joined the track back to off the coast of france
[14:06] <WD8MNV> it's near F6AIU
[14:06] <iain_G4SGX> Must have sent its 2 hourly update
[14:07] <iain_G4SGX> he he spacenear dont like it
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[14:08] <SpeedEvil> WD8MNV: that doesn't actually help :)
[14:08] <iain_G4SGX> North of Dijon
[14:09] <Upu> ping fsphil :)
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:09] <fsphil> ah ha
[14:09] <LeoBodnar> Doing 2 hour shifts fsphil ? :D
[14:10] Action: SpeedEvil fails.
[14:10] Action: SpeedEvil must not be awake.
[14:10] <LeoBodnar> We should all shut down receivers when next 2 hour log comes XD
[14:10] <iain_G4SGX> Dijon, rance? lol
[14:10] <iain_G4SGX> *France
[14:10] <LeoBodnar> , The Earth
[14:11] <fsphil> the deed is done
[14:11] <gonzo_> etch-a-sketch tracker
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> Salute you
[14:11] <nats`> hope the B11 will go north and west after to return south
[14:11] <nats`> the biggest d**k in the world :D
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> is 4V about right for this time of day - or is it getting less than it was
[14:12] <LeoBodnar> duck ?
[14:12] <fsphil> it was 3.8v earlier
[14:12] <nats`> you have really strange duck in england ;)
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> i mean less than yesterday
[14:12] <iain_G4SGX> Odd that, i c 2 titys
[14:13] <LeoBodnar> 4V is sweet spot. It will start transmitting more often and at higher power above 4V trying to dissipate excess energy
[14:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Updated KMZ/L files todate here http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> It's one of a Rorschach test cards
[14:14] <ike> at higher power above 4V - how so?
[14:14] <ike> 20mW?
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> Well maybe 10mW above 4V and 6-7mW below.
[14:15] <iain_G4SGX> maybe? lol
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[14:21] <Ugi> LeoBodnar: how are you converting the voltages on B11? It's a notional 0.5v from the solar, I guess, being stepped up to 4+v to charge the battery, and then down again for the board? Or does the board run at the battery voltage?
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[14:25] <LeoBodnar> Step up and then down
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> Not best efficiency but solar power is in abundance
[14:27] <Laurenceb> so mppt goes to the lipo directly?
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Is 123test in libya real?
[14:29] <LeoBodnar> Yep
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> might almost pick it up.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> come mondayish
[14:32] <Laurenceb> some altitude oscillation
[14:32] <Laurenceb> interesting how panel voltage, temperature and altitude correlate
[14:32] <Laurenceb> i think it migh be due to rotations
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> -2mV/C
[14:33] <LeoBodnar> Why would it spin around at constant speed?
[14:33] <Laurenceb> its not that constant
[14:34] <LeoBodnar> x-f: once again thank you for your telemetry website.
[14:35] <LeoBodnar> Don't leave home without one!
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Why does sometimes the predictor give a path on spacenearthat seems rather a long way from the expected path if you look at the desccent rate
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> i mean - it's showing a landing in norway - for a 3km altitude balloon descending at 1.5m/s
[14:35] <LeoBodnar> Projected V/S ?
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe the predictor ran when it was almost level
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Are the spikes on the altitude graph one-off GPS glitches?
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Or transmission errors
[14:36] <LeoBodnar> Prossibly. Sometimes landing is almost underneath the balloon
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[14:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Rather than rotation could it be a pendulum affect causing the changes ?
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[14:38] <Laurenceb> i think it just went through a front or something
[14:38] <Laurenceb> look at the temperature
[14:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It has shot up in a fe minutes
[14:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *few
[14:44] <Laurenceb> coming up to 94hours now
[14:47] <LeoBodnar> Perfect entertainment. Drama spread over 4 days
[14:48] <Ugi> 94 hours must be an all-time record
[14:48] <PE2G> Yeah, I really enjoy the B flights. Thanks for that.
[14:48] <Laurenceb> Ugi: it is
[14:48] <Ugi> and no sign of losing power or coming down at the moment
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[14:52] <Laurenceb> <Steffanx> its fake
[14:52] <Laurenceb> one person thinks its fake
[14:52] <nats`> technical question on one of the balloon you said someone picked the signal at 900km
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[14:52] <Steffanx> I love you too Laurenceb
[14:53] <nats`> I'm puzzled because at 400MHz freespace attenuation for 900km is 143.5dB
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> Upu did
[14:53] <fsphil> nats`: atmospheric propagation
[14:53] <fsphil> can do wonderful things
[14:54] <LeoBodnar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_propagation#Tropospheric_ducting
[14:54] <fsphil> also upu has much antenna mojo
[14:54] <mattbrejza> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/surface-pressure/#?tab=surfacePressureColour&fcTime=1378339200
[14:54] <mattbrejza> no fronts where the balloon is :/
[14:54] <LeoBodnar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzDGeg7U5RE
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: thermals?
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[14:55] <nats`> LeoBodnar fsphil I'll read that I knew already the phenomen but didn't think it's possible at those frequency
[14:55] Action: SpeedEvil enjoys his new power supply.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> One of those ones Ed linked - but I got a dented one
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> i now have perhaps the heaviest USB charger in the world.
[14:56] <LeoBodnar> Oh, dented a lot?
[14:56] <mattbrejza> have you loveingly cal'ed yours yet?
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Not very.
[14:56] <eroomde> SpeedEvil, where is the dent?
[14:57] <eroomde> mine had a couple of dents
[14:57] <craag> nats`: In propagation, something is possible at every frequency!
[14:57] <eroomde> backplate on one is a bit dented
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: The corner plastics are a bit broken, and there is a cracked display
[14:57] <eroomde> top is a bit dented
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> Mine was _awesomely_ packed
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> The package is about 50*50*40cm and was solid with bubblewrap then an internal box, then more
[14:57] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, you flew right by when my family (paternally) is from
[14:57] <nats`> <craag> nats`: In propagation, something is possible at every frequency! <= ?
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> But it was 30 quid cheaper than the 'nice' ones.
[14:58] <LeoBodnar> It's power source.
[14:58] <eroomde> just south of dijon
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> ^a cracked display plastic - the display itself is fine
[14:58] <LeoBodnar> Haha world is so small eroomde
[14:58] <eroomde> could probably see you from the vinyard
[14:58] <eroomde> they're there (parents) at the moment
[14:59] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: could we wake turbulence from a jet above
[14:59] <LeoBodnar> They dissipate very slowly and drift outside and down
[14:59] <mattbrejza> so the balloon was launched at silverstone circuit, and its currently flown past spa and monaco
[14:59] <mattbrejza> it has a thing for F1
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: I am pondering cal methods.
[14:59] <LeoBodnar> *outwards
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[14:59] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: Varying from posting someone a well aged 7805 supply to measure on a nice meter on.
[15:00] <eroomde> SpeedEvil, do you have access to a decent multimeter?
[15:00] <craag> nats: Well you can get quite amazing propagation at HF sometimes, and well-over-the-horizon on 10GHz as well!
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> £3.99 from lidl.
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> it's accurate according to that.
[15:01] <mattbrejza> you could get a selection of high precision voltage references from maxim?
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: perhaps, yes
[15:01] <LeoBodnar> Maybe someone can cal precision voltage standards and sell them for cost + £10 here. I'd buy one.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> that's the 'on'
[15:01] <daveake> mattbrejza And looped round Monza
[15:01] <craag> nats`: There are individual effects on each frequency 'range' but basically there's no frequency with 100% predictable propagation!
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[15:01] <SpeedEvil> craag: neutrinos.
[15:01] Action: SpeedEvil cheats.
[15:01] <craag> and Higgs Bosons I've heard too sometimes
[15:01] <craag> :P
[15:01] <Piet0r> Hello y'all .. like they would say in the USA
[15:02] <LeoBodnar> Graviton ducting
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> G'day old son like my Ozzie landlord says
[15:03] <Piet0r> Is B11 going to paint a cock-and-balls on the map? :p
[15:03] <Laurenceb> uh oh
[15:03] <mattbrejza> SpeedEvil: http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/3623 0.02% accuracy
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[15:05] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: yeah - I know of them.
[15:06] <mattbrejza> how you would then use them to cal is another thing, if the psu expects you to measure and then it adjusts
[15:06] <mattbrejza> could cal your lidl DMM :P
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: you can cal with an arbitrary voltage iIRC
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> and it only needs one
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> I only skimmed the manual though
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> i hadn't fully realised that it's also a programmable load of sorts
[15:07] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[15:10] <eroomde> iirc it wants a meter
[15:10] <eroomde> it sets 2 voltages
[15:10] <eroomde> you type in on the front panel what the meter says they are
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> At 14:17 a 737 FR4232 / RYR42M flew over the B-11 at altitude of 10,660m
[15:14] <LeoBodnar> This must have pushed the balloon down.
[15:14] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:15] <nats`> need to merge the map with adsb map
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[15:16] <nats`> "See the boxing meeting of tonight ! B-11 vs 737 !"
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: :)
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[15:23] <Joel_re> hey are lm35 sensors ok for temp measurements
[15:23] <Joel_re> internal and external
[15:23] <Joel_re> I mean has anyone found that they work fine
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[15:26] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/B-11-737.png http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/737.png
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> Plausible?
[15:27] <chrisstubbs> eek
[15:27] <Darkside> dunno
[15:27] <Darkside> big altitude difference
[15:27] <Laurenceb> hehe ryanair
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[15:28] <keydash> it's possible to with one arduino. set 2 lm35 sensors, ntx2 and gps=
[15:29] <LeoBodnar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence
[15:32] <daveake> Don't tell RyanAir; they'll want to charge for overflying
[15:33] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[15:34] <PE2G> I doubt it. The jet passes north of B-11 and the wake turbulence of the jet moves with about B-12's speed to the NE
[15:34] <nats`> LeoBodnar did you use a pll fed by the GPS and passing right F to the transceiver ?
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[15:36] <VFTT> anyone know a good place to buy balloons in US?
[15:37] <LeoBodnar> No, just a regular TCXO
[15:37] <VFTT> cheapest I've found is www.weatherballoons.net
[15:38] <Steve_2e0vet> with spacenear.us, how do you know the rtty frequency of the ballon, is it displayed anywhere
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2e0vet, you can look it up on habitat
[15:39] <daveake> Just in the info panel top-left, for a live launch
[15:39] <chrisstubbs> the box in the corner is manually set
[15:39] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: if it's been announced it's usually (manually) put into the box top left
[15:39] <mfa298> But not everything sends rtty
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[15:41] <LeoBodnar> Would be nice if somehow dl-fldigi showed this info.
[15:41] <LeoBodnar> Maybe one can add it to payload name
[15:42] <LeoBodnar> as a temp bodge
[15:42] <nats`> LeoBodnar but in your description you say you use the gps clock to adjust the frequency drift you do that in software ?
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[15:42] <LeoBodnar> Which balloon? I have stopped using this after about B-7
[15:43] <LeoBodnar> For power saving reasons
[15:44] <nats`> ok understand :)
[15:47] <LeoBodnar> I can correct the description, what balloon have you seen it on?
[15:48] <nats`> I check :)
[15:48] <nats`> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/index.html <= B2 :)
[15:48] <nats`> GPS-locked carrier ensured the transmitter tuning did not move more than a few Hz during the whole flight.
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> Ah, yes that was correct at the time. B-7 and above don't have this
[15:50] <nats`> and the pll/gps output was too much load ?
[15:50] <LeoBodnar> *later not above
[15:50] <nats`> because I would like to modify one of my transceiver to do balloon experiments :)
[15:50] <LeoBodnar> It takes almost 8 seconds to accumulate the correction data for each check so I have dropped it.
[15:50] <nats`> the idea of gps locked is pretty cool
[15:51] <nats`> using a gps module with 10MHz output ?
[15:51] <LeoBodnar> extra 8 seconds after getting the position fix
[15:51] <nats`> woooo
[15:51] <nats`> that's huge
[15:52] <LeoBodnar> Does not matter. If you want to correct 30MHz base clock with 3Hz precision you need 10 seconds
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Surely doing it every 100th or so transmission would be sane.
[15:52] <LeoBodnar> Unless you do phase comparison and all that
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Or have you deleted the hw
[15:53] <nats`> LeoBodnar but that's the output of the gps module ?
[15:53] <nats`> because I was thinking putting a dedicated pll on the output to directly upscale to the desired frequency
[15:53] <nats`> so should be shorter
[15:54] <LeoBodnar> But if it drifts away over 99 transmission and somebody just tuned RX and left it on for the night then you have just lost one tracker after large correction. DomEX does not autotrack freq drift beyond maybe 100Hz
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[15:55] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: true
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> GPS output has quite a lot of jitter and large phase noise. It's not a good idea to use it as PLL input
[15:55] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[15:56] <nats`> ohh ok didn't know that
[15:56] <nats`> I was thinking that GPS must be precise in phase noise
[15:56] <LeoBodnar> So basically all this dancing around is just a convoluted LPF
[15:57] <nats`> Yep I understood that part :)
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> Maybe internally but not on the 1PPS output I am using.
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> There must be modules that are designed for direct use of reference output
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> But they are massive. Is it Trimble?
[15:58] <nats`> I have a trimble module at home
[15:58] <nats`> in noway embedable in balloon
[15:58] <nats`> but not so massive
[15:59] <LeoBodnar> Yea, if it is 10MHz it is almost certainly can be used as a ref clock in a lab grade instrumentation. But not a typical 1PPS output module like MAX-6 or MAX-7
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[16:00] <nats`> thanks for information too much trouble compared to vctxo
[16:00] <nats`> vctcxo
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[16:06] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK uses vctcxo in his APRS tracker I think as he modulates AFSK this way http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/tag/pecan/
[16:06] <LeoBodnar> I just do it digitally in PLL
[16:08] <nats`> you use Si44xx transceiver too ?
[16:08] <nats`> because that's what I'm putting on my board since I use it at work
[16:09] <nats`> have to go see ya :)
[16:09] <LeoBodnar> bye! see you later
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[16:20] Nick change: arko_uk -> arko
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[16:28] <WillTablet> Hi.
[16:28] <WillTablet> ¡It seems I can afford the PCBs after all!
[16:30] <ike> WillTablet can't you crowd source your HAB project
[16:30] <ike> like finding friends that like HAB
[16:30] <WillTablet> No.
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[16:31] <ike> and one of you are going to buy balloon other will buy GPS, other TX module and 2 other will get RX tracking stations
[16:32] <daveake> I believe he's UpuSourced much of that
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[16:37] <Steve_2e0vet> cheers both
[16:41] <LeoBodnar> Could please somebody with regular globaltuners account set "Odenwald" German receiver to USB mode?
[16:41] <LeoBodnar> I am locked out while there is a full memeber logged in
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[16:45] <LeoBodnar> PE2G: Thank you :)
[16:45] <mattltm> Is Conference still up?
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[16:50] <Maxell> happy 5 days uptime :P
[16:51] <DL7AD> happy birthday!
[16:51] <mfa298> mattltm: I suspect Conference will float at 2013m until saturday.
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[16:53] <mattltm> Is it a marker for the UKHAS conf?
[16:57] <Maxell> F6AIU needs to set a reciever location, right?
[16:57] <Maxell> Does dl-fldigi allow uploading strings without a location?
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[17:00] <LeoBodnar> Haha it is a party balloon in the end :)
[17:00] <Maxell> Hope it wont become a party pooper in the end :P
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> I see what you've done there XD
[17:03] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: whats the unit for "Solar Panel"? Volts, Ampreres?
[17:03] <LeoBodnar> Volts
[17:03] <Maxell> Utilization ratio based on voltage? :P
[17:03] <Maxell> Ah, ok.
[17:03] <LeoBodnar> It's a single cell
[17:04] <Maxell> Monocrystal?
[17:04] <LeoBodnar> Yep
[17:05] <Maxell> Fancy stuff
[17:06] <Maxell> Might be worth including if we (=RevSpace) floats a floater
[17:07] <DL7AD> lets think about. B-11 ist floating for a long time. now im thinking abount b-6. could it be that its still floating? ^^
[17:08] <LeoBodnar> It is not impossible!
[17:09] <Maxell> Not anything is impossible, DL7AD.
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> B-8 is down, B-10 has landed and was retrieved, B-11 is being tracked, the rest I don't know where.
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> B-3 is in the sea
[17:10] <DL7AD> B-1 is down as well
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> Guaranteed! Yes
[17:10] <DL7AD> thats a rhyme :D LeoBodnar
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[17:15] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: Do you put an address label on your Bees?
[17:15] <LeoBodnar> No, no space
[17:15] <PE2G> ok
[17:16] <LeoBodnar> I think the PCB has name on it but that's it
[17:16] <LeoBodnar> They'll find me if they are desperate
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[17:19] <LeoBodnar> Odenwald globaltuners receiver is a bit deaf. Maybe local topography is not very good.
[17:19] <Ugi> LeoBodnar: congrat's on 5-days air-time. The one-week float is looking realistic!
[17:20] <LeoBodnar> Haha, at the moment I am looking forward to a 100 hours, beyond that it is almost the same until you hit 1000.
[17:21] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: have you used Odenwald earlier for decoding?
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> Yes, yesterday
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> Before we lost B-12
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[17:26] <LeoBodnar> HAM club meeting! See you later guys
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[17:29] <DL7AD> got a new toy :D http://dl7ad.de/PICT0001.JPG
[17:29] <adamgreig> nice :D
[17:29] <adamgreig> "pet series"? for sucking up pet hair?
[17:29] <adamgreig> or because it is a pet :P
[17:30] <DL7AD> yes http://dl7ad.de/PICT0003.JPG for these egdes
[17:30] <DL7AD> our dog looses hair a lot
[17:30] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[17:30] <chrisstubbs> Lol my uncle got one of those, knocked over some designer lamp, destroying the lamp and itself
[17:31] <DL7AD> rofl :D
[17:31] <DL7AD> cleans all my smds from the bottom
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[17:37] <chrisg7ogx> DL7AD does it know where the power dock is and automaticaly go back for a re-charge?
[17:37] <DL7AD> ehm i think so ^^ at least it drived back to the recharging station automatically.
[17:38] <chrisg7ogx> nice.. tks
[17:38] <DL7AD> dont ask me how that works
[17:38] <chrisg7ogx> i am a volunteer walker of guide dog puppies and have a family pet labrador!
[17:39] <DL7AD> the recharging station has something on it that works like a light-house i think
[17:39] <chrisg7ogx> LOL
[17:39] <chrisg7ogx> a bit more RF for radio hams to worry about¬
[17:39] <DL7AD> does your dog loose much hair?
[17:40] <chrisg7ogx> yes at certain times of the year spring and winter is usual but central heating interferes with the natural cycle. Puppies shed hair as part of their growing up
[17:41] <chrisg7ogx> quite long hair so i think the machine would soon have indigestion!
[17:42] <chrisg7ogx> can I have a dial frq for B11 please
[17:42] <crash_18974> DL7AD: make sure you turn off scheduling if your dog ever gets sick. Diarrhea and roombas don't mix.
[17:43] <DL7AD> 434.500 i guess
[17:43] <DL7AD> yes thats correct
[17:43] <chrisg7ogx> another prob with pups..we are collecting our sixth one next week and diarriorhea is common
[17:43] <DL7AD> crash_18974 yes our dog got several shocks today
[17:44] <chrisg7ogx> it would not survive in our puppy environment
[17:44] <DL7AD> when it was bumping
[17:44] <DL7AD> :D no out dog was afraid
[17:44] <crash_18974> DL7AD: I have one in the basement that looks the same except it's not pet series
[17:45] <nats`> back :)
[17:45] <chrisg7ogx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEMRo-IcGk
[17:45] <crash_18974> btw, they sell soft bumpers for the front.
[17:45] <chrisg7ogx> bumpers Mmm nice an' chewy..
[17:46] <DL7AD> its really soft
[17:46] <crash_18974> oh, hmm, yes it looks like yours has a soft bumper and my older one didn't
[17:47] <DL7AD> sometimes it knows that a obstacle is coming soon. then its slowing down
[17:48] <crash_18974> yea I think it has infrared on the front and sides. Doesn't work too well on mine. It will run full speed into things.
[17:49] <crash_18974> except a while wall
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[17:50] <DL7AD> not it dont have infrared i think. evertime its running full speed at the first time
[17:50] <DL7AD> not at the second bumb
[17:52] <crash_18974> http://www.robotshop.com/irobot-ir-sensors-roomba-new-swivel-caster.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=jos
[17:52] <chrisg7ogx> OMG it's learning! turn it off they're taking over i wish.. back to hoover and dustpan and pan for me
[17:52] <crash_18974> oh that's just cliff sensors
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[17:53] <bertrik> very nice to see B-11 still flying :)
[18:00] <chrisg7ogx> Is "Sandals" txing?
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[18:01] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: not anymore, it's just testing some new ideas
[18:02] <chrisg7ogx> ok tks
[18:02] <mfa298> and definetly needs application of solder before being flight ready
[18:02] <chrisg7ogx> Major WX change forecast here for tomorrow so reluctantly off to cut the grass
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[18:11] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:11] <jcoxon> go B-11
[18:12] <kpiman> Is it a record flight?
[18:12] <jcoxon> very much so
[18:12] <jcoxon> previous duration record was 84 hrs
[18:12] <jcoxon> this is at least 96 now
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[18:13] <kpiman> doesn't look like stopping anytime soon
[18:13] <Bo_DK> HEEEELP
[18:13] <Bo_DK> playing with habrotate but no active flights :-(
[18:15] <jcoxon> kpiman, indeed
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[18:15] <Tramvai> Hey.
[18:16] <Tramvai> Where may I find a tutorial for the uBlox 6 GPS setup and polling?
[18:16] <mfa298> Tramvai: I think there's some stuff on the ukhas wiki,
[18:17] <mfa298> although possibly the easiest option is to just connect to a serial port. You can then just read and parse the NMEA strings
[18:18] <Tramvai> I have no idea how to do that
[18:18] <Tramvai> That's my problem :(
[18:18] <mfa298> arduino, Pi, PIC, something totally different ?
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[18:23] <Bo_DK> mfa298: got to the part where i test habrotate.... but no fligts
[18:23] <Bo_DK> flights
[18:24] <Bo_DK> could be nice with a simulator of some kind :-d
[18:24] <x-f> Bo_DK, B-11 is an active flight right now
[18:25] <x-f> mfa298, he's using Arduino
[18:25] <Bo_DK> x-f: hmmm... habrotate did not get it from habhub
[18:26] <mfa298> If I run habrotate it sees 7 active flights
[18:26] <Bo_DK> strange
[18:26] <Bo_DK> let me recheck
[18:27] <Bo_DK> if i abbort the program i get this:
[18:27] <Bo_DK> File "habrotate-cli.py", line 165, in <module>
[18:27] <Bo_DK> wanted_id = int(raw_input('Select Flight number: '))
[18:28] <Bo_DK> https://github.com/thecraag/habrotate
[18:28] <Bo_DK> there are 2 folders
[18:28] <Bo_DK> cli and wglue
[18:28] <mfa298> use the version in cli
[18:29] <Bo_DK> that i did
[18:29] <Bo_DK> total unaltered
[18:29] <Bo_DK> not even the config
[18:29] <Tramvai> mfa298: Arduino of course
[18:30] <mfa298> Tramvai: I think a number of people have used TinyGPS to parse the gps data - although it's not that tiny.
[18:30] <mfa298> I'm afraid I can't help that much as I'm not using an arduino
[18:31] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[18:31] <Tramvai> Aww
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[18:32] <mfa298> having a look for TinyGPS should give you several good pointers
[18:34] <Bo_DK> mfa298: could it be that i have not set a location in config file? ie the default is somewhere in the ocean near africa
[18:34] <Bo_DK> would a uk pos be better?
[18:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Latest cleaned up view http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=16 also GE kmz/l files if any one wants to play!
[18:34] <mfa298> Bo_DK: I don't think the location in the config file will affect it showing active flights
[18:35] <Bo_DK> hmmm
[18:35] <mfa298> you might want to check that your BBB (if that's where you're running it) can access the habitat server
[18:36] <Bo_DK> ahh of course
[18:36] <Bo_DK> bingo
[18:37] <Bo_DK> it cant pin outside world
[18:37] <Bo_DK> ping
[18:37] <Bo_DK> but it got an ip from router
[18:37] <Bo_DK> and i can ssh to it from local side
[18:40] <Bo_DK> prop i does not use the dns servers that comes with dhcp
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[18:44] <DL7AD> im waiting for the balloon :P
[18:44] <jcoxon> DL7AD, hooray
[18:44] <jcoxon> hopefully it'll still be flying on saturday
[18:45] <Bo_DK> hmmm... nameservers right
[18:45] <Bo_DK> still cant ping thou
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[18:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[18:46] <jcoxon> could people bring cameras to the conference
[18:46] <jcoxon> and take lots of pictures
[18:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> Tracker for my tommorows flight to London si ready :-) http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FSP9UOB-9&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[18:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FSP9UOB-9&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[18:47] <x-f> what time is your flight?
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[18:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> 18:30 local time from Krakow
[18:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> 16:30 UTC
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[18:49] <x-f> ah, mine will be on early morning
[18:49] <x-f> i'll try hard to not get lost on my way to Greenwich :|
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[18:52] <number10> look forward to seeing yo there
[18:52] <number10> you all
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[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> jcoxon: im getting my "space" Cannon A800 because of luggage weight limit :-)
[18:53] <jcoxon> hehe
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[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> greedy ryanair :-)
[18:55] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: drive by car then :-D
[18:55] <Bo_DK> and ryanair sucks
[18:56] <Bo_DK> they even regard their cabin crew as "culi's"
[18:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: its 26 hours of driving
[18:57] <Bo_DK> hmmm...
[18:57] <Bo_DK> from denmark, odense its 13 hours
[18:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: i was in London several times by car :-)
[18:57] <eroomde> i think i've just finished my slides
[18:58] <Bo_DK> does it relly take 26 hours?
[18:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> 90% of time i was talking to myself "keep left, turn left at roundabout" ;-)
[18:58] <x-f> Geoff-G8DHE, in 3D from GE its flightpath look waaay more impressive than on spacenear.us' humble 2D map :)
[18:58] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: its pure up in your brain
[18:58] <number10> what the maths like eroomde ?
[18:58] <eroomde> none!
[18:58] <eroomde> deliberately
[18:59] <eroomde> well, there is a tiny tiny big
[18:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: yes, 22-26 hours
[18:59] <Bo_DK> i can drive in left side no problem... takes a few sec to get used t
[18:59] <eroomde> but it's just trigonometry you'll have forgotten from school and for which i will remind you
[18:59] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: are you driving a trabant?
[18:59] <eroomde> for just one slide
[18:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: no C5 :-)
[18:59] <number10> that makes it open to a wide audience
[18:59] <eroomde> basically so long as you're happy with multiplication, you'll be fine
[18:59] <eroomde> multiplication is the only pre-req
[19:00] <eroomde> i hopefully cover everything else
[19:00] <number10> looking forward to it
[19:00] <mattbrejza> not going to use complex numbers to describe any radio stuff then? :P
[19:00] <eroomde> nope
[19:00] <eroomde> none
[19:00] <Bo_DK> hmm... krackhow you said?
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[19:00] <eroomde> except that has necessaitated a slight fudge too
[19:00] <eroomde> well not really
[19:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway - even 22 hours are not comparable with sucking 2.5 hour with ryanair :-)
[19:01] <eroomde> i basically do the PSD instead of the DFT
[19:01] <mattbrejza> well complex numbers can be avoided easily for bpsk
[19:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: im from Gliwice, about 60 km west from Krakow
[19:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> Cracow
[19:01] <eroomde> indeed. not going near them for this
[19:04] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: https://maps.google.dk/maps?saddr=London,+Storbritannien&daddr=Gliwice,+Polen&hl=da&sll=50.294603,18.671265&sspn=0.758872,2.113495&geocode=Fa7_EQMd8Cv-_yl13iGvC6DYRzGZKtXdWjqWUg%3BFdxu_wIdFOccASlfsWZsYDARRzER6ssGn6i8mw&oq=London&t=h&mra=ls&z=6
[19:04] <eroomde> mattbrejza, are you attending the talk?
[19:04] <mattbrejza> ype
[19:04] <eroomde> cool
[19:05] <eroomde> do you know how to make reliable paper aeroplanes?
[19:05] <eroomde> reliable = fly in a fairly straight line
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[19:05] <mattbrejza> the classic dart works pretty well
[19:05] <mattbrejza> straight line isnt always a given though
[19:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: so? Are You able to driving 14.5 hour without break? Then add 2 hour prom window and... You have over 20 hours
[19:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> prom= ferry
[19:07] <eroomde> will make an appeal during the talk
[19:07] <mattbrejza> is this how you intend to model what the ionisphere does to radio signals?
[19:08] <Bo_DK> tried 13 hours
[19:08] <mattbrejza> or am i over thinking this
[19:08] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: tried 13 gouras
[19:08] <Bo_DK> hours
[19:08] <Bo_DK> and whats the 2 hours?
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[19:09] <eroomde> mattbrejza, yes you are
[19:09] <eroomde> ionosphere is but a massing mention
[19:09] <eroomde> passing*
[19:09] <eroomde> 2 hours is not enough to go into that much detail about everything
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[19:10] <mattbrejza> especially when you have to explain DSSS
[19:10] <mattbrejza> starting at what bpsk is
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[19:10] <eroomde> starting at what a sine wave is
[19:10] <eroomde> and what correlation is
[19:10] <mattbrejza> radians?
[19:10] <eroomde> it's basically all about decoding DSSS
[19:11] <eroomde> yeah... radians
[19:11] <eroomde> fudge
[19:11] <mattbrejza> radians is gcse level maths?
[19:11] <eroomde> don't know
[19:11] <eroomde> conceptually simple though so i'm just staing it and moving on
[19:11] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: you dont use the tunnel train?
[19:12] <mattbrejza> yea
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[19:13] <mattbrejza> anyway will be interesting to see how you pratically implement some of these things (DSSS), theory doesnt tend to teach you that
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[19:14] <eroomde> indeed
[19:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: 2 hour ferry "window", ferries from Dunkirk departs every 2 hours
[19:14] <Bo_DK> ok
[19:14] <Bo_DK> are they cheaper than the tunnel?
[19:14] <Bo_DK> might go to uk in october
[19:14] <smrtz> How did B-11 end guys?
[19:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> i dont know - nwver tried
[19:15] <bertrik> smrtz: still going as far as I know
[19:16] <smrtz> bertrik: Damn, what's the record for longest flight?
[19:16] <mfa298> its currently increasing
[19:17] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: not the ferry?
[19:17] <smrtz> mfa298: haha, sweet, who launched B-11?
[19:17] <mfa298> the record was 84 hours
[19:17] <mfa298> It was launched by Leo
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[19:18] <smrtz> What's it's payload?
[19:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> Bo_DK: no tunnel. I was always taking ferry (2 hours of sleep :-))
[19:19] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: yes
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[19:19] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: what does it cost approx?
[19:19] <mfa298> smrtz: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/
[19:19] <Bo_DK> SP9UOB-Tom: found website
[19:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> P&O was about 20 GPB
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[19:22] <Bo_DK> hehe... yes... 45€
[19:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> ??really? http://www.aferry.pl/dover-prom-pl.htm?gclid=CLXS6dv9tLkCFYRP3godcVwAvg
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[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:32] <DL7AD> hi
[19:32] <Upu> hey DL7AD
[19:32] <Upu> Lunar
[19:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> well.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RhXlzHCv-qs
[19:35] <DL7AD> im at the fieldday contest tomorrow ;)
[19:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: hi Lunar_Lander
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB-Tom
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[19:38] <Upu> are you in Germany now ?
[19:39] <DL7AD> yep
[19:39] <Upu> anywhere in range of B-11 ? http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:39] <Upu> we could do with some German listeners and its entering Germany in about an hour or so
[19:39] <DL7AD> im trying to get some persons tracking the balloon in germany
[19:39] Action: Lunar_Lander buzzes in
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> the trajectory resembles a pair of glasses
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:41] <Upu> or gonads
[19:41] <adamgreig> mainly gonads
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[19:41] <adamgreig> looking forward to it flying on to denmark or something
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[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:44] <Bo_DK> mfa298: my BBB config is fucked.... cant get to outside world
[19:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> B-11 really dont want to fly over Poland...
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[19:47] <fsphil> ok bored now ;)
[19:47] <fsphil> it's the largest and slowest etch-a-sketch in history
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[19:54] <adamgreig> oh my god
[19:54] <adamgreig> the current predicted flight path
[19:54] <adamgreig> yess
[19:58] <fsphil> lol
[19:58] <adamgreig> aww it changed
[19:58] <adamgreig> it did go up to gothenburg then loop left and back
[19:58] <adamgreig> the perfect shape
[19:58] <adamgreig> but now it's going way over lithuania and estonia and then coming north again?
[19:58] <fsphil> the live predictor is a bit naff with floaters
[19:58] <adamgreig> indeed
[19:58] <adamgreig> good luck getting many receivers in norway
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[20:00] <x-f> challenge accepted?
[20:01] <x-f> there probably was time in the past, when you had no receivers across the channel
[20:03] <adamgreig> yup
[20:04] <fsphil> or not much in the uk
[20:04] <DL7AD> wow b-11 is hopping
[20:04] <fsphil> oh, log dump
[20:04] <fsphil> Leo!!!!!!!
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kitkat-galaxy-s4-640x305.jpg
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> err
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> wrong one
[20:05] <bertrik> great idea to dump a coarser path every once in a while, by the way
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> http://connect.dpreview.com/post/1040220037/first-look-sony-qx10-qx100-mobile-cameras
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> i question if this is a useful device usually - but i could see it being interesting for embedded - if it's open or hackable
[20:06] <Bo_DK> any people that can help me with habrotate???? it will not get any flights
[20:06] <fsphil> it is
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> - basically a camera lens + sensor + wifi
[20:06] <Bo_DK> i have chekced that i have internet access
[20:06] <fsphil> though there's a bug in this one where it dumps the first part of the flight only
[20:07] <fsphil> refresh to clean up the map
[20:07] <Bo_DK> ????
[20:07] <Bo_DK> what map?
[20:07] <fsphil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[20:07] <Bo_DK> i was talking about habrotate
[20:07] <Bo_DK> not the tracker page
[20:08] <fsphil> I was making a statement rather than replying to anything specifically :)
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[20:10] <Bo_DK> so tjhere are not any that can help me with habrotate right now?
[20:10] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with it
[20:10] <Upu> only craag
[20:10] <Bo_DK> hmmm
[20:10] <Bo_DK> a bit strange...
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[20:11] <Bo_DK> i can ping outside urls
[20:11] <Bo_DK> habrotate comes up with no list of flights
[20:11] <Upu> comes up with a list here
[20:12] <Bo_DK> trying the zip on his page
[20:12] <Bo_DK> and not the ones from github
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[20:12] <Bo_DK> the ones i had success with on windows was those from his own site
[20:12] ibanezmatt13 (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) joined #highaltitude.
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> evening! :)
[20:13] <Upu> evening Matt
[20:13] <Upu> when are you going down to London ?
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[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Saturday isn't it?
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> The morning
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> We're driving it on the Saturday morning earl
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> y
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> By the way... Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIR55jqGcZI
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[20:14] <Upu> oh dear :)
[20:14] <eroomde> you're conferencing ibanezmatt13 ?
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: I'm coming yes
[20:15] <eroomde> cool
[20:15] PE5TS (565e2199@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.94.33.153) joined #highaltitude.
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> man you gotta watch that video
[20:16] <Upu> holding antenna wrong orientation
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> haha, well spotted
[20:16] <Upu> lol
[20:17] <Upu> well done anyway for your contribution
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[20:17] <Upu> a solid lession in marketing bullshit
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, quite cool actually
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> I can't believe it happened so quick to be perfectly honest
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[20:18] <eroomde> i don't understand
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> what don't you understand?
[20:18] <eroomde> people
[20:18] <Upu> lol
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah, me neither generally
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[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> hey eroomde, maths is going well... so far
[20:19] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: good
[20:19] <Upu> German station
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> Did a fair chunk of D1 today, really really straightforward commonsense stuff
[20:19] <Upu> super :)
[20:19] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: and you where worried
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> well, it's my second day :P
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> and that's not further maths :)
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> Had first computing lesson too. "A program is a... A variable is a... Hello World...." -_-
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> so pleased I have a bit of a head start
[20:22] <eroomde> lol
[20:22] <eroomde> there is no speed limit
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> only down side is the launguage
[20:22] <eroomde> go as fast as you want learning
[20:22] <eroomde> (SICP)
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> vb.net :(
[20:23] <eroomde> SICP
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I read that link you sent me
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> About the SICP, didn't fully get it but hey
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[20:34] <DL7AD> blub
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[20:40] <WillTablet> Hi. Gonna order the PCBs tomorrow
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[20:44] <craag> Bo_DK: How are you getting on?
[20:45] <Bo_DK> craag: ohhh. think it was due to time not set right
[20:45] <Bo_DK> i have rethought my approach to your code
[20:45] <craag> Ok, yeah habitat is a fickle beast
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[20:45] <craag> Took me ages just to get the flight list out of it when I started!
[20:45] <Bo_DK> mainly i try to keep it as is... thou i want it to use GPS instead of the config file
[20:46] <craag> Yeah very easy, I'd use gpsd and then talk to that on the API
[20:46] <Bo_DK> craag: very much my thought
[20:46] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-139-98-27.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:46] <Bo_DK> and then some python script that can listen to upd and tell the servos where to look
[20:47] <Bo_DK> but doing baby steps
[20:47] <Bo_DK> have a google doc split up in stages
[20:47] <craag> That's the way to do it.. test test test
[20:47] <Bo_DK> and noting down what i do
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: Got a pic of your boards?
[20:47] <Bo_DK> a lot of things not the same on pi as on BBB
[20:48] <WillTablet> Not atm, will post tomorrow.
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> 100hours flight time
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[20:48] <craag> woah there's a flight still up
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> right I'm off to bed, further maths tomorrow -_- Good night
[20:48] <Bo_DK> craag: if you want to have a peak at google doc pm me with google account mail
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[20:48] <craag> you guys have been busy on the mainland!
[20:49] <craag> (I'm currently stood about 200m from the Big Top stage at Bestival on IoW)
[20:50] <craag> Bo_DK: Work is all-encompassing at the moment, maybe next week
[20:50] <Bo_DK> craag: no rush... and not enforcment to contribute... not from my side
[20:51] <craag> Is B-11 being perpetually powered by the solar?
[20:51] <Upu> yeah its recharging in the day
[20:51] <Upu> as the temp gets above 0 it charges
[20:51] <Upu> enough to last through the night
[20:51] <Upu> so yes it could be up for along time
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[20:52] <Bo_DK> hmmm... if we just had listners arround the globe :-D
[20:52] <craag> fantastic, and amazing flight path too
[20:52] <WillTablet> Actually, I did upload it to gerblook, at school but I'm not sure if that's an up to date version
[20:52] <WillTablet> Upu good news.
[20:52] <craag> Way to go LeoBodnar, upstaging everybody else on the week of the conf!
[20:53] <WillTablet> ¡¡¡I can afford the PCBs!!!
[20:53] <Upu> woo WillTablet
[20:53] <charolastra> what the hell is going on with the path on the tracker?
[20:53] <enkidu> WillTablet: most expensive in ordering PCBs is so called "documentation"
[20:53] <enkidu> charolastra: backlog.
[20:53] <craag> Right better get back to work, cya at the conf all!
[20:54] <WillTablet> ¿What do you mean ?
[20:54] <enkidu> WillTablet: documentiation consist of masks of all layers used
[20:54] <charolastra> enkidu: a reload fixed it, had strange criss cross pattern
[20:55] <enkidu> I know. It was due to backlog
[20:55] <WillTablet> Sorry I really don't know what you mean?
[20:55] <mikestir> enkidu: do you mean "tooling"?
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[20:55] <charolastra> sooo, is there a prediction where it will go next?
[20:56] <enkidu> WillTablet: are you ordering PCBs in specialized factory?
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[20:56] <enkidu> mikestir: tooling? where?
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[20:56] <fsphil> no B-11 receivers in .de?
[20:56] <mikestir> what you're describing sounds like you mean the phototools
[20:57] <enkidu> yes, most PCBs are etched this way, at least here
[20:57] <enkidu> offset printing doesnt make good results
[20:58] <DL7AD> which type of battery does b-11 have?
[20:58] PE2G (~Miranda@a83-161-208-176.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[20:58] <mikestir> the two common methods are either etching the copper away from a complete board, or adding the copper electrochemically to a blank board
[20:58] <mikestir> both use photographic masks as you say
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[20:59] <Laurenceb_> Germany
[20:59] <enkidu> there is also offset printing on boards that will be etched
[20:59] <mikestir> and yes WillTablet this is the expensive part, but they are reusable so the cost is split across all the boards. places like seeed and hackvana get the costs down by pooling your boards with lots of other people's
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[21:01] <enkidu> and some methods falls back to screen printing technique
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[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> B-11 malfunction?
[21:04] <enkidu> seems up
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> but look at the tracjectory
[21:04] <eroomde> what about it?
[21:04] <Upu> what about it ?
[21:04] <enkidu> no, it is due to backlog. refresh page
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> needs moar trollface logtrail
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[21:07] <number10> are you able to track B11 Lunar_Lander ?
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> no
[21:08] <number10> why?
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> (note to myself: have to get another BNC connector antenna)
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> way too far south
[21:08] <enkidu> GT?
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[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> GT?
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[21:09] <enkidu> odenwald receiver, but it is busy
[21:10] <number10> how far south is it from you Lunar_Lander ?
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> 370 km
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> the blue circle isn't even reaching me
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[21:13] <LeoBodnar> evening
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi LeoBodnar
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> hi
[21:14] <number10> you must at the far north of Germany as the blue circle is about Munster
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> Anything exciting happened?
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[21:15] <PE2G> Yeah, I just got today's first green decode :-))
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: are you using the ST MPPT chip?
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> Yes
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> how is it setup?
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[21:15] <LeoBodnar> CV/CC
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> i wasnt sure if it can charge lipo
[21:16] <PE2G> Range 384 km elev. -0.4 deg
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> It's the same thing
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> :D PE2G
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[21:17] <LeoBodnar> Functiinally
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> so it tried to maintain 4.1v ??
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> or what? how does it charge
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> I am looking at Vbat Vsolar Tinternal charts. Textbook execution.
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> It tries to maintain 4.1V but at current not exceeding XmA
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> Not sure what X is
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> so its designed for charging, not for constant voltage?
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> Well it can't give you constant voltage at above specific current as the load power is limited
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[21:20] <LeoBodnar> So up until 4.0xV itis limited by current
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> It is not constant by any means, just limited
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> i kind of understand, yeah
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[21:21] <LeoBodnar> So if power source would be very potent then CC and then CV as in LiPo charger
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[21:22] <LeoBodnar> I don't want to set CV at 4.2 as it puts massive stress onto the battery
[21:22] <Upu> whatever you're doing is working
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> 4.0...4.1V should be OK.
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[21:22] <LeoBodnar> evening Upu
[21:22] <Upu> what is the capacity of the battery ?
[21:22] <Upu> evening
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> Odenwald is deaf isn't it?
[21:23] <Upu> err can't remember
[21:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> I couldn't hear much from it earlier
[21:24] <Upu> Discone
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> Did we have it in CW mode yesterday?
[21:24] <Upu> don't think so
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> TUned higher like 434.502.smth?
[21:24] <Upu> I can retune if it you want
[21:25] <PE2G> Weak signal, but decodable: http://s21.postimg.org/ukov7un87/Screen1065.jpg
[21:25] <Upu> lol
[21:25] <Upu> DominoEX ftw
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> Ah, Ok, let's leave it then
[21:26] <Upu> DD5FX has it now anyway
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> I have used CW on Rimini yesterday
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> Cool
[21:26] <Upu> X-30 Colinear + FT857
[21:26] <Upu> good
[21:26] <eroomde> i have been to karlsruhe
[21:26] <eroomde> unremarkable
[21:26] <eroomde> i have also driven through basel
[21:26] <eroomde> i thought it was the bladerunner set
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> is it *ühe?
[21:26] <eroomde> it was astoundingly ugly and industrial
[21:27] <Upu> interesting factoid the flame stacks at the start of Blade Runner are from ICI Wilton
[21:27] <Upu> in Teesside
[21:27] <eroomde> the north
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> Would you rather prefer flamboyant and useless?
[21:27] Action: eroomde ducks
[21:28] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yes!
[21:28] <eroomde> eg paris
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> Hahaha Corus?
[21:28] <eroomde> or the entirety of italy
[21:28] <Upu> got a Hysplit from this point LeoBodnar
[21:28] <Upu> I worked there for a year and the heat they gave off was insane, even driving past them 200 meters away you could feel it
[21:28] <Upu> through a car window
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Lovely Teesside.
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> But maybe no
[21:29] <Upu> petrochemical wonderland
[21:29] <Upu> you know
[21:29] <Upu> on days of heavy rain
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Chromium works
[21:30] <Upu> one of the car parks at ICI liquid mercury came out of the ground
[21:31] <Upu> right Hysplit
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> what's on the cards?
[21:32] <Upu> bit random
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[21:32] <Upu> but if it does this : http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18578_trj001.gif
[21:32] <Upu> Poland :)
[21:32] <eroomde> slow
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[21:33] <LeoBodnar> Ha! Neat, staying over borders?
[21:33] <enkidu> would be nice ;)
[21:33] <Upu> but thats 72 hours
[21:33] <eroomde> leo was waiting for all the polish habbers to come to the uk before invading
[21:33] <eroomde> clever
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, liquid Hg? why?
[21:33] <Upu> Because it was a polluted mess Lunar
[21:33] <Upu> Dupont dumped some random posionous gas into the air at least once a month
[21:34] <Upu> your car gets coated in this wierd rubbery crap
[21:34] <Upu> horrendous place
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7PdhbcdJSE
[21:34] <LeoBodnar> Chromium pulp is still in clay lined pools near Eaglescliffe
[21:34] <eroomde> the point at which their noxious gases condense on you
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[21:34] <eroomde> the dupont
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> Or was it Egglscliffe? There is Eaglescliffe and Egglscliffe right near each other. I never knew which is which.
[21:35] <Steve_2e0vet> Upu, should we have tickets for the conference ?
[21:35] <Upu> no tickets
[21:35] <Upu> just turn up
[21:35] <Upu> only people on the list getting in :)
[21:35] <Steve_2e0vet> Upu, ok ta
[21:35] <eroomde> got a bouncer?
[21:35] <Upu> yeah
[21:35] <Upu> James
[21:36] <Steve_2e0vet> anyone know the best way fom kings cross
[21:36] <Upu> yes
[21:36] <Upu> northern line to Bank
[21:36] <Steve_2e0vet> thanks
[21:36] <Upu> Bank DLR -> Cutty Sark
[21:36] <Upu> northern line is to Morden
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[21:37] <LeoBodnar> PE2G: are you using digital signal to dl-fldigi or audiocable?
[21:37] <Steve_2e0vet> ok thanks, might just make it for 10
[21:37] <PE2G> Audiocable
[21:38] <Upu> Leo can we assume B-12 is MIA and remove it ?
[21:38] <PE2G> Which is quite long
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[21:38] <LeoBodnar> Just a sec I'll grab a screen
[21:38] <Upu> ah no worries
[21:38] <Upu> I'll leave it on
[21:38] <Upu> not causing any issues
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[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, thanks :)
[21:40] <enkidu> I was trying to use audiocable but alsa developers made multicard capture impossible (bunch of morons)
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> OK, let's give it one more sunset chance.
[21:41] <Upu> ok
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: what smps do you use?
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[21:42] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: try plotting hyp trajectories for place it was last spotted
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> Ah, can't remember now, just random step-down really. LTsomething I think
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[21:42] <Laurenceb_> ah linear ok
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[21:43] <LeoBodnar> TPS6229x - just as I said
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> texas then
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> I did: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/NOAA.gif
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[21:45] <LeoBodnar> I can use LT*** and it would work just as good if not better
[21:45] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[21:45] <chrisstubbs> eroomde, is there anything we should read up on beforehand to get the most out of your gps workshop?
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> I can't even remember how I chose it
[21:45] <eroomde> nope
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[21:45] #highaltitude: mode change '+o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:46] Topic changed on #highaltitude by Upu!Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:fceb:e50c:37b0:9fdd: Welcome to #highaltitude - UKHAS 2013 Live Stream http://www.batc.tv/streams/ukhas - www.ukhas.org.uk
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> That's encouraging eroomde
[21:46] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:46] <eroomde> i'm assuming familiarity with multiplication
[21:46] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: so it should be somewhere close to 11 now, but no signal, yeah?
[21:46] <eroomde> that's about it
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> Yep can probably get away with that one :)
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> cool
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[21:47] <LeoBodnar> yes, B-12 was following B-11 with a few hour's flight distance
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: do you use any sort of SMPS shutdown mode?
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> or just keep it running between transmissions?
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> It has probably locked up. Maybe if battery really dies completely it may restart but to operate it needs a battery as surrogate capacitor, it won't work just on solar
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> So I'd say it's a goner
[21:49] <adamgreig> 11?
[21:49] <Upu> 12
[21:49] <adamgreig> oh right
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> will the STEPUP even startup at 0.68v or whatever
[21:49] <adamgreig> 11 still going strong?
[21:49] <PE2G> Was B-11 on the higher or lower freq, compared to B-12? I don't remember
[21:49] <Upu> yep
[21:49] <adamgreig> sweet
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: no, TCXO and SMPS are running
[21:49] <adamgreig> heck of a flight
[21:50] <Upu> no indication its stopping any time soon either
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> oh right
[21:50] <Upu> recharging cycle is working well
[21:50] <adamgreig> crazy
[21:50] <Upu> balloon isn't coming down
[21:50] <adamgreig> yea
[21:50] <crash_18974> someone is asking to tune odenwald
[21:50] <adamgreig> all systems go
[21:50] <Upu> could be up for weeks :)
[21:50] <adamgreig> hope it doesn't drift too far from receivers :P
[21:50] <crash_18974> he just tuned it
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> B-12 is LOWER than B-11 by 500Hz.
[21:50] <Upu> don't think we are RXing via Odenwald anyway
[21:50] <Upu> I'm sure B-12 would have been picked up by now
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> Agree Upu
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[21:51] <Upu> lets be honest that did pretty well
[21:51] <PE2G> Ok, I checked 500 Hz below B-11, nothing there
[21:51] <adamgreig> if it weren't for its big brother b-12 would be a super great flight anyway
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> 101hours flight time now
[21:52] <LeoBodnar> It's the highest foil float altitude so far - 9500m. Well done B-12
[21:52] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: you should think of some short circuit protection for batteries. or maybe supercap
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> Oh and the new payload weight record as well 8.5 grams
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> B-12 did well
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[21:53] <eroomde> these are the kind of alts that the 60s superpressure balloons would stay up in for weeks right?
[21:54] <eroomde> away from weather and scarier temp gradients
[21:54] <LeoBodnar> I think they had one up for two years
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_, do you have that UCAR link again?
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> 744 days LeoBodnar
[21:54] <LeoBodnar> But it's a lottery. If the Nature wants to bring it down it will
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> the only limit was UV degredation of the envelope
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> Alu on the outside helps with that
[21:56] <Upu> Qualatex balloon ?
[21:56] <LeoBodnar> B-11 must be shagged by now considering how B-10 looked after just one day. http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/Images/9.jpg
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> foil is on the inside
[21:57] <Upu> really
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> its probably a function of the stretching
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> in which case it wont be much worse
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> Yeah
[21:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> You will have to turn the next one inside out then ;-)
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> Haha, homework for topology undergrads
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> Messed up or lovely receiver and left after 7 minutes
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> *our
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Can we try CW Upu ?
[21:59] <Upu> if you want
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Say at 434.501.600
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> we need to turn "Rv" in dl-fldigi
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> CW ~ LSB
[22:01] <LeoBodnar> Can't hear anything
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[22:04] <Upu> lol
[22:05] <Upu> icon for OM1AMJ
[22:05] <Upu> scroll out
[22:05] <Upu> I should fix that
[22:05] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar ? could you generate a map-update?
[22:05] <PE2G> B-11 sending log now
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> What is the modem freq?
[22:08] <WillTablet> Upu looking forward to conf, even though I won't be there.
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> Upu: is noise blanker on?
[22:08] <Upu> off now
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[22:08] <Upu> from 10 WillTablet
[22:09] <WillTablet> Okay. Do you know if the videos will go on youtube after yet?
[22:09] <WillTablet> Also, is there a badgeboard this year?
[22:09] <Upu> possibly and no
[22:09] <Upu> afk
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[22:09] <WillTablet> K
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[22:14] <LeoBodnar> just a moment DL7AD
[22:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right see you lot tomorrow no doubt, night.
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[22:17] <enkidu> Upu: is it possible to show horizontal speed at tracker points?
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[22:22] <LeoBodnar> nn Geoff-G8DHE
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[22:24] <Bo_DK> mfa298: got a list now... nc 127.0.0.11 12000 gives a error.... connection refused
[22:24] <Bo_DK> trying to figure why in the morning
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[22:24] <LeoBodnar> PE2G: are you on Odenwald?
[22:26] <Bo_DK> out again
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[22:26] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA.gif
[22:28] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar thx
[22:30] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: but this is the old predition you made several hours ago, is it?
[22:31] <enkidu> so far we have seen many predictions, lets wait for actual movement
[22:32] <PE2G> LeoBodnar: No I was brushing my teeth. Do you want me to log in at GT?
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> No it's OK I thought you were RXing on Odenwald and did not want to disturb you. I realised you are RXing directly
[22:34] <PE2G> Yes, elevation -0.3 deg
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> wow
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> should be in range until next monday
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[22:35] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD: The NOAA data is updated 2-3 times a day only
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> every 6 hours but I have taken current balloon position
[22:38] <DL7AD> hm okay
[22:39] <DL7AD> my yagi is waiting for it :)
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[22:40] <PE2G> DL7AD: You're Wolfbl ?
[22:41] <DL7AD> no i would be DL7AD but i have a problem
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> seems to be swinging to the north slightly
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> looks like NOAA is right
[22:41] <DL7AD> dl-fldigi dont show b-11 as an option
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00287506.pdf
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> that?
[22:42] <enkidu> DL7AD: configure manually. B-11 flight doc expired (or so)
[22:42] <DL7AD> just configure dominoex16, right?
[22:42] <enkidu> mostly
[22:42] <enkidu> strange, i got it in list
[22:43] <PE2G> Me too.
[22:44] <DL7AD> i restarted fldigi 5secs ago
[22:44] <DL7AD> now its in the list
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[22:45] <PE2G> DL7AD: I can't find you on the map
[22:45] <DL7AD> hm... sec
[22:47] <DL7AD> indeed
[22:47] <LeoBodnar> Flightdoc is pining for the fjords.
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[22:48] <DL7AD> warning: couln't set stationary location: invalid float
[22:50] <PE2G> DL7AD: Did you use commas in your coordinates?
[22:50] <enkidu> DL7AD: dont use N/E
[22:51] <DL7AD> i didnt set any coords
[22:51] <DL7AD> just my locator
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> haha good joke DL7AD
[22:51] <PE2G> You should set decimal coordinates
[22:51] <DL7AD> where?
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> do you use commas in Germany or decimal points? Could be locale dependent?
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> post the pic
[22:52] <DL7AD> oh got it
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> Invalid float. Haha
[22:55] <PE2G> B-11 definitely is a valid floater :)
[22:56] <DL7AD> haha :D here we go :)
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> Do we have any jokes left :)
[22:57] <PE2G> Ah, You're in Berlin!
[22:57] <DL7AD> currently yes
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> Ah, you are on the map! woohooo
[22:58] <enkidu> F0FYF replied. He had too much interference to decode B-11 but will try to sort them out
[22:59] <LeoBodnar> Great, nice to know people are trying to help
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: I suspect temperature sensor has saturated. -27C looks too flat to be accurate.
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> B-12 went to -29C
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> is it digital?
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> It's whatever Si4460 reports. I'll check what my code does
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[23:03] <Laurenceb_> i doubt it'll saturate
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> at that temperature
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be wobbling about a bit
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> It's just hitting the bottom really hard, no exponential-ish tapering off
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[23:06] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> looks sane to me
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[23:11] <LeoBodnar> Thermal inertia is really small however
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> thermal time constant?
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> i dont follow
[23:13] <enkidu> LeoBodnar: maybe PT1000 sensor would be better for the next time?
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> oh the temperature
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[23:13] <LeoBodnar> Payload cools very quickly
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> it all seems sane to me
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> So gentle curves are actually sunlight changes not thermal delay
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> agreed
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> it levels off the same every day
[23:14] <LeoBodnar> 2nd night min=-25C, tonight=-27C
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> but to slightly different levels, which seems reasonable
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> yeah - as you would expect
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> sure
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> I can't believe I have hit a jackpot with a random LiPo
[23:16] <LeoBodnar> Well I have done power budget calcs but haven't even tested it in the freezer
[23:16] <LeoBodnar> LiPo performance deterioration is not obvious from the charts.
[23:16] <DL7AD> Leo? did you try lifepo yet?
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> Unless it's sudden and catastrophic.
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> It's too big! 15grams
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> I have them. Bought from Germany
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> :D
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> people have cut down lipo cells
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> I know but they need inert chamber to work in
[23:18] <DL7AD> did they sell it as 15g battery?
[23:19] <LeoBodnar> to cut and seal. I have friends who are in contact with Chinese manufacturers, I'll see if they can run a small batch of custom LiFePO4s
[23:19] <LeoBodnar> At the moment I can't see the reason
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904547
[23:20] <DL7AD> what the hell......
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> hmm thats not the successful one
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> someone managed to make it work
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> Yes, I can't find any LiFePO4s lighter than 13.5 gram (not15)
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> you need an argon chamber
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[23:21] <LeoBodnar> We have argon welding equipment
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> this is a _little_ nutty
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> i think one person on rcgroups made it work
[23:22] <BrainDamage> I'd want a blast/shrapnel resistant screen too ...
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> its not explosive
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> just the way the foils are wound inside the cell makes it hard to trim it
[23:24] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: http://newscenter.lbl.gov/wp-content/uploads/MJD-unit.jpg
[23:26] <DL7AD> okay i will go to bed. gn
[23:26] <PE2G> Gutenacht!
[23:26] <DL7AD> gn8 ;)
[23:27] <LeoBodnar> gn DL7AD !
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[23:40] <PE2G> B-11's speed is 11 km/h
[23:41] <LeoBodnar> Jogging
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[23:49] <PE2G> DJ3AK has appeared in the forecast flight path
[23:50] <PE2G> Which is nice, since that direction is my blind spot
[23:51] <LeoBodnar> Nice, he should come into range soon
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> Has fsphil automated the log cleanup from the map?
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[23:57] <PE2G> I think I'll never get within the blue circle, but it doesn't matter. DomEX16 is decodable nonetheless
[00:00] --- Fri Sep 6 2013