highaltitude.log.20130903

[00:00] <Bo_DK> so far its not as much my code.. but code from 2 other people....
[00:00] <Bo_DK> first bit i understand... ie it pulls data from gps and prints
[00:00] <Bo_DK> or that is what it did....
[00:00] <Bo_DK> removed the part that printed to screen
[00:00] <Bo_DK> then habrotate follows
[00:01] <Bo_DK> with mods to use the live gps data
[00:01] <Bo_DK> and removed the bits not needed
[00:01] <Bo_DK> hence i used googledoc to colour code
[00:01] <mfa298> you'll probably do better copying the bits of code you need into your own code rather than trying to modify the existing habrotate code
[00:02] <mfa298> however the first thing you probably need is some sort of written plan of what you're code is going to do.
[00:03] <Bo_DK> yeah.... have it in my head so far.... must take care it does not get lost :-D
[00:04] <mfa298> if you want other peoples help you need to have written down.
[00:04] <mfa298> again this is where the likes of github helps
[00:04] <Bo_DK> but in short.... 1. get live gps data 2. pass it to habrotate part 3. let habrotate tell a servo where to aim
[00:04] <Bo_DK> yes.... will add plan to top of googledoc.... then git tomorrow
[00:05] <mfa298> no point with the googledoc, go straight to git
[00:05] <Bo_DK> not today
[00:05] <Bo_DK> but need safeguard against forgetting
[00:05] <mfa298> unless you're already familiar with something like svn or cvs in which case you could use one of them
[00:05] <Bo_DK> svn i use for a project where i help design PCB
[00:06] <Bo_DK> opentrv
[00:06] <Bo_DK> is the project
[00:06] <mfa298> it took me 20 minutes to get git setup yesterday and I've had to retrain my brain from a lot of cvs/svn working.
[00:07] <mfa298> The first thing you probably want to write is the README file which is where you put some of the stuff about what you're doing
[00:08] <Bo_DK> yeah... load all thoughts there... and get some structure in it
[00:08] <mfa298> unless you're an expert with svn it's probably better to use git for this project (it's where most people are moving) and github looks to have a lot of useful features - wiki etc.
[00:08] <Bo_DK> hmm.... thinkering if i should go ahead now....
[00:09] <Bo_DK> with risk of small upp's
[00:09] <mfa298> you could start writing the README on the BBB (assuming that's where your code is) and then you just have to add into into git once you've set the repo up
[00:10] <mfa298> you can even setup a git repo without github and then import into github once you've created an account
[00:10] <WillTablet> I so want to buy one of these and do arduino/bbb control.
[00:11] <WillTablet> http://dx.com/p/jh-wxdj283-1-3-5-ch-ir-remote-control-r-c-airplane-w-gyro-army-green-215715
[00:12] <WillTablet> Talking of arduino, I was talking to my granddad about a potential project we could do, and he keeps calling it 'aduina' and 'arduina'.
[00:12] Action: mfa298 thought Willdude was going to sleep 30 mins ago
[00:12] <WillTablet> I was. I gave up
[00:12] <LeoBodnar> Good night! Time to catch some sleep.
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, one thing before you leave
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> http://i.imgur.com/gXCkHzO.png
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:13] <LeoBodnar> hehe it's in :)
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[00:14] <mfa298> I think all those people that went to sleep >1hour ago probably had the right idea
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[00:14] <LeoBodnar> Is R14 grounded?
[00:14] <LeoBodnar> No dot
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> oh wait
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks!
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:15] <LeoBodnar> On that note I shell depart! :)
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> night :)
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[00:16] <WillTablet> I think the fsx plane I bought today may have been a slight waste of money.
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[00:19] <WillTablet> I hate to be a swaggot but #yolo
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[00:30] <Bo_DK> heheh think i managed to set up a repro at google code
[00:30] <Bo_DK> still empty thou
[00:31] <Bo_DK> https://code.google.com/p/beagle-bone-black-based-hab-listning-station/
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[00:38] <adamgreig> nooo don't use google code
[00:38] <adamgreig> use github seriously
[00:38] <Bo_DK> code saved
[00:38] <Bo_DK> adamgreig: you are a few mins to late
[00:38] <adamgreig> you can still get rid of the crappy google code one and get github
[00:39] <adamgreig> why would you pick gcode for a new project
[00:39] <Bo_DK> whats wrong with google code? i just need a place to ahre my code
[00:40] <Bo_DK> ahre=share
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[00:43] <Bo_DK> and then sudden silence....
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[01:39] <smrtz> Hey, I'm trying to figure out how much helium/ how big a balloon I'll need. Can you guys tell me how heavy your payloads are on average please?
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[01:40] <adamgreig> smrtz: http://habhub.org/calc and a 1kg payload is a safe guess
[01:41] <adamgreig> payloads range from 10g to many kg though
[01:41] <adamgreig> so it really depends on what you want to fly
[01:41] <smrtz> Great, thanks adamgreig
[01:43] <smrtz> What kinda gear do people put in many kg payloads?
[01:43] <adamgreig> all sorts. sometimes stupid crap
[01:43] <smrtz> A camera, tracker, and antenna should only be at the most, 1kg, right?
[01:43] <adamgreig> amateur radios, loads of batteries, silly things
[01:43] <adamgreig> heavy cameras
[01:43] <adamgreig> sometimes Science
[01:44] <adamgreig> most sensible modern payloads will be around 1kg or much less, yes.
[01:44] <smrtz> jAhh, ok.
[01:47] <wrea> At one point I'd like to put a stupid heavy camera on one
[01:51] <smrtz> Haha, could be fun.
[01:51] <smrtz> Can you give me any information on camera gimbles?
[01:52] <wrea> Thats something I've yet to take a look at
[01:52] <smrtz> yeah, I can't find any light enough
[01:57] <smrtz> How does this look for the balloon: http://www.amazon.com/dia-Professional-Weather-Balloon-600g/dp/B004RK2RAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378172825&sr=8-1&keywords=20+foot+weather+balloon ?
[01:58] <adamgreig> where do you live? no one here is a huge fan of those from amazon because it's very hard to tell what they'll actually do and stuff and reasons
[01:58] <adamgreig> in the uk we mostly go for http://randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
[01:58] <smrtz> Hmm, any good venders in the US?
[01:58] <adamgreig> not sure I'm afraid
[01:58] <adamgreig> stick around, there are a few other US people on here who'll know
[01:59] <smrtz> sweet, thanks.
[01:59] <wrea> smrtz: www.kaymont.com
[02:00] <smrtz> Ahh, thanks wrea
[02:01] <smrtz> I'm thinking of doing a tethered balloon with a camera, something like what would be used at a football game for security. Do you guys have any ideas for stuff I could add to it?
[02:03] <adamgreig> my advice would be to not tether HABs
[02:04] <adamgreig> it's so terrible
[02:04] <adamgreig> it won't work
[02:04] <smrtz> why?
[02:04] <adamgreig> they're aerodynamically unstable - they will blow sideways at the slightest gust as the lift is constant
[02:04] <smrtz> wind?
[02:04] <adamgreig> you want a lift generating structure
[02:04] <adamgreig> like a blimp
[02:04] <adamgreig> in wind they generate additional lift so remain in the right place
[02:04] <adamgreig> a balloon ends up with its cord horizontal
[02:04] <adamgreig> and it's already high up where it's going to experience all the gusts
[02:05] <adamgreig> it's super hard holding one for a minute while launching
[02:05] <smrtz> Hmm.
[02:05] <adamgreig> trying to do it for a football game would never work
[02:05] <adamgreig> you could try guying it down from the balloon
[02:05] <adamgreig> but you'd need so many very good guy lines
[02:05] <adamgreig> it's honestly not practical
[02:05] <adamgreig> use a scaffolding pole
[02:06] <smrtz> adamgreig: ahh, Good points.
[02:07] <adamgreig> people have tried
[02:07] <adamgreig> this is a lesson learnt the hard way
[02:09] <smrtz> I mean, I'm still interested in doing a balloon, but I just won't tether it.
[02:13] <adamgreig> yea. they're cool
[02:13] <adamgreig> but not really useful for tethering
[02:13] <smrtz> yeah, I guess not.
[02:16] <smrtz> I'm still looking for some inspiration though, what kinda stuff do you guys add to your payloads?
[02:26] <smrtz> Anything cool?
[02:27] <adamgreig> hmm
[02:27] <adamgreig> no, this is always a sticking point
[02:27] <smrtz> adamgreig: how so?
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[02:27] <adamgreig> not many people can think of novel things
[02:28] <adamgreig> you can make a lighter or smaller or longer lasting payload, or go higher, or stay up longer
[02:28] <adamgreig> which are the cool things to do
[02:28] <adamgreig> but in terms of taking something up with you? there's science outreach experiments, and that's about it as far as I've seen really
[02:29] <smrtz> yeah, really I just want some challenges. Reading the wiki, this doesn't seem that hard, I'm looking for some ideas to make it...harder.
[02:29] <adamgreig> hah
[02:29] <smrtz> flying higher and longer are good ideas though.
[02:29] <adamgreig> maybe get one normal launch in first
[02:30] <smrtz> Well, yeah, but I've been reading up on this for a few days, it doesn't seem that hard at all.
[02:30] <smrtz> am I that wrong?
[02:30] <adamgreig> do you have a background in this kinda stuff?
[02:30] <adamgreig> a lot of people find getting a payload flight computer and radio system etc together a reasonable challenge or learning experience
[02:31] <adamgreig> and there are always more issues than you'd expect
[02:31] <smrtz> yeah, I'm in Collage now, and I'm head of a Drone lab, I've got a few autonomous quadcopters, a 6 foot gas helicopter, a few planes, the biggest being a 7 foot blended wing
[02:31] <adamgreig> if you've done lots of software, hardware will fail on you in exciting ways you hadn't considered
[02:31] <smrtz> and I've got my technical license.
[02:31] <adamgreig> if you've done lots of hardware, things like parsing GPS data reliably is more annoying than you might expect
[02:31] <adamgreig> either way things like filling a balloon in gusting winds to the correct fill is a skill
[02:32] <adamgreig> well it sounds like you have a bunch of the required skills
[02:32] <smrtz> Also, I'm a CE major, so I'm good with the aurduino code.
[02:32] <Darkside> not so good with spelling
[02:32] <Darkside> :P
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[02:32] <smrtz> Yeah, I've used both UBlox and MediaTrec GPS moduals in the past, I prefer UBlocks.
[02:32] <smrtz> adamgreig: hopefully, but filling in wind does sound dificult.
[02:32] <smrtz> difficult*
[02:33] <adamgreig> can't tell if you're being sarcastic
[02:33] <smrtz> isn't there a way to put a pressure gauge on the fill line?
[02:33] <adamgreig> sometimes it's easy, anyway
[02:33] <adamgreig> well yea but it won't work
[02:33] <adamgreig> balloon is at atmospheric pressure really
[02:33] <adamgreig> latex expands
[02:33] <adamgreig> gotta measure gas flow instead
[02:33] <Darkside> $$$
[02:33] <adamgreig> and I promise that's harder than you might expect and in any event not worth it
[02:34] <smrtz> Not being sarcastic, that's something I hadn't thought of. And Darkside, lol, yeah, I'm on a shitty netbook keyboard.
[02:34] <smrtz> Can you just watch the PSI in the tank drop as you fill it?
[02:35] <adamgreig> yea but don't do that
[02:35] <adamgreig> you measure lift
[02:35] <adamgreig> it's the way to go
[02:36] <smrtz> Oh, just because it's simpler?
[02:36] <adamgreig> yea
[02:36] <adamgreig> http://habhub.org/calc and it's what that says
[02:36] <smrtz> Just stop filling when it starts to support itself?
[02:36] <adamgreig> no
[02:36] <adamgreig> you need a certain amount of free lift
[02:36] <adamgreig> which is beyond bouyancy
[02:36] <adamgreig> to get a useful ascent rate
[02:37] <smrtz> ahh, ok.
[02:40] <smrtz> This stuff seems pretty cool, I'm happy I found the wiki.
[02:41] <smrtz> I've got to go for now, but I'll check back in once I get the parts in, and am ready to fly.
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[03:28] <g6uim> B11 is back from the dead
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[03:42] <arko> nice!
[03:44] <arko> leo's habs are always entertaining
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[04:08] <arko> B11 has learned a new trait: Teleportation!
[04:11] <Darkside> B11 forgot: GPS lock
[04:12] <Darkside> B11 learned: Teleportation
[04:12] <arko> lol
[04:15] <arko> it gains +15exp every teleport
[04:16] <wrea> lol
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[04:29] <LeoBodnar> mornings!
[04:33] <arko> morning!
[04:33] <arko> B-11 is teleporting
[04:33] <arko> neat technology you got on these things
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[04:45] <LeoBodnar> lol map needs deglitching
[04:45] <LeoBodnar> B-11 was out of contact for 24+ hours
[04:49] <arko> it had to keep the reputation of the former B flights, it has to do something cool :)
[04:49] <x-f> nice to see it back!
[04:50] <arko> LeoBodnar: any plans for freon?
[04:51] <LeoBodnar> yeah, sucker survived
[04:51] <LeoBodnar> Butane more like it arko, working on packaging and purifying butane.
[04:51] <arko> nice!
[04:51] <arko> that paper was pretty cool
[04:52] <LeoBodnar> x-f: Bs crashed your website again, sorry :)
[04:52] <arko> they launched that a few blocks from where i live
[04:52] <arko> too bad i wasn't into habs in 1995
[04:54] <x-f> LeoBodnar, it must be something else, i've let the admin know, but on the bright side i've gained some sudo rights to fix it quicker :)
[04:54] <arko> I think one of the authors, John, still works at jpl. I might try to grab lunch with him and ask where things went afterwards
[04:54] <arko> i think it all went towards venus habs
[04:54] <arko> err balloons even
[04:54] <LeoBodnar> We have arrived at the idea in discussion with Laurence and it's already been tried and tested. It looks like everything has been already discovered or invented so no reason struggling, better google instead. :)
[04:55] <x-f> oh, hey, B-12 might come over the Baltic states, hehe
[04:55] <LeoBodnar> x-f: cool, how do you pull data from the habitat?
[04:55] <arko> ah
[04:56] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, would be nice to send a present from here x-f :)
[04:56] <x-f> LeoBodnar, i get it from logtail
[04:57] <LeoBodnar> I see, just running html query and parsing?
[04:57] <x-f> kind of, yes
[04:57] <LeoBodnar> thanks, interesting to know
[05:01] <arko> figured all this stuff has been modelled and tested by now
[05:02] <arko> have you tried anything other than mylar? I'm still looking for an alternative
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[05:06] <LeoBodnar> I haven't tried Mylar yet
[05:07] <arko> er, for the balloon?
[05:07] <LeoBodnar> These are aluminised nylon
[05:07] <arko> oh
[05:07] <Maxell> RevSpace #3 in top-3 decodes from B-12! :D
[05:07] <Maxell> Still going STRONG!
[05:07] <LeoBodnar> Mylar is very difficult to work with
[05:07] <LeoBodnar> Cool Maxell !!
[05:08] <LeoBodnar> It does not hot seal on its own
[05:08] <mfa298> wow what a pleasant surprise, being awoken by strong pips from b11
[05:08] <mfa298> shame about the w7 updates overnight
[05:09] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[05:09] <arko> oh yeah, mylar is aluminized polyester
[05:11] <LeoBodnar> yes, polyester, "space blanket" :)
[05:11] Action: arko does air quotes
[05:12] <LeoBodnar> Maybe you can get some with laminated hot sealable backing
[05:12] <arko> either one is illigal to fly here :/
[05:12] <LeoBodnar> Oh.
[05:12] <arko> nothing conductive
[05:12] <arko> california law sucks
[05:13] <LeoBodnar> Clear polyester then? It's very easy to puncture. Any double fold would usually produce a pinhole.
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[05:13] <LeoBodnar> I.e. it's glass-like
[05:13] <arko> damn
[05:14] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, it's a challenge. But zero-pressure might work OK.
[05:15] <arko> polyethylene?
[05:17] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, classic material
[05:17] <LeoBodnar> Easy to buy as tubing as well.
[05:18] <arko> would be cool to make a balloon
[05:20] <mfa298> looks like the battery in B11 is still doing well - hopefully suggesting solar is working
[05:20] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, grassroots
[05:20] <mfa298> shame we don't have the detail of what its altitude realy did
[05:21] <arko> how is the battery/solar balanced?
[05:21] <LeoBodnar> mfa298: I have not had time to test solar panels on B-12 - I hope they work as well
[05:21] <Maxell> B-12 is doing intresting glitches...
[05:22] <LeoBodnar> Yes, not sure what this is all about. Maybe low temp? Let's see what happens when it warms up.
[05:25] <mfa298> so big question: were the pips UPU saw last night B11 (he seems to have got good range on B12
[05:26] <LeoBodnar> I have updated the page with the position at the time: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/
[05:26] <LeoBodnar> 950km great circle
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[05:28] <LeoBodnar> I am absolutely certain. The freq difference between B-11 and B-12 was set to exactly 500Hz
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[05:30] <LeoBodnar> x-f crashed again :)
[05:30] <Upu> wow
[05:30] <Upu> wow wow woo
[05:30] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/
[05:30] <LeoBodnar> 950km well done Upu
[05:31] <Upu> eh ?
[05:31] <Upu> how the
[05:31] <Upu> what the
[05:31] <Upu> so wait
[05:31] <LeoBodnar> At the time you have spotted it it was in the middle of Bay of Biscay
[05:31] <Upu> I RX'd it and uploaded ?
[05:31] <mfa298> that range does seem almost impossible but those pips do seem to suugest upu was rxing it
[05:32] <Upu> I guess the track is it playing back now its in range ?
[05:32] <LeoBodnar> No the log has been caught by south coast station but the pips were B-11
[05:32] <LeoBodnar> stations*
[05:32] <Upu> wierd
[05:32] <Upu> that must have been some propagation
[05:32] <LeoBodnar> wired
[05:33] <Upu> awesome sauce :)
[05:33] <LeoBodnar> Unless you have received it from the future?
[05:33] <LeoBodnar> or the past
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[05:34] <x-f> LeoBodnar, brought it up again, thanks for monitoring :)
[05:35] <Upu> btw LeoBodnar replaying
[05:35] <Upu> epic idea
[05:35] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, we would have never known otherwise
[05:35] <LeoBodnar> I think 2 hours are about right
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[05:36] <LeoBodnar> Both are charging the batteries woohoo
[05:37] <mfa298> the dxinfocentre charts do seem to suggest a reasonable chance of tropo ducting around the bay of biscay
[05:38] <LeoBodnar> Does ducting happen on 70cm?
[05:39] <mfa298> I think tropo is more of a vhf/uhf thing
[05:40] <LeoBodnar> map needs debugging to deal with repeats/out of sequence reports. Using message sequence number as an index maybe together with time should take care of it
[05:40] <mfa298> and the top of the forcast page says about vhf, uhf, microwave and tv
[05:40] <LeoBodnar> I thought it only happens on VHF
[05:41] <Upu> it has happened before
[05:41] <Upu> but rarely
[05:41] <Upu> Brian got a packet at 800km + from a payload that was quite low
[05:41] <Upu> charging? what batteries do they have ?
[05:42] <LeoBodnar> LiPos
[05:42] <Upu> they don't charge sub zero
[05:42] <Upu> the chemical reaction doesn't work
[05:42] <LeoBodnar> Well sun warms them up first
[05:42] <Upu> sure ? :)
[05:43] <Upu> ah hell I'll believe you
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[05:43] <jcoxon> say what!
[05:43] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[05:43] <LeoBodnar> B-11 was at 4.00V last evening
[05:43] <LeoBodnar> what? lol
[05:44] Action: jcoxon bows down to LeoBodnar
[05:44] <LeoBodnar> i'm laughing here
[05:45] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: B-11 has reappeared and is now heading up the channel & B-12 still in the air 434.500 DomX16 #ukhas #hamr
[05:45] <LeoBodnar> Upu sniffed B-11 out yesterday from almost 1000km away
[05:45] <Upu> lol I know jcoxon
[05:45] <Upu> that was my reaction when I looked at spacenear this morning
[05:45] <eroomde_> christ
[05:45] <Upu> well my reaction was rude
[05:45] <eroomde_> might be worth someone having a clean-up of the gps path
[05:45] <eroomde_> if someone has the appropriate foo
[05:46] <LeoBodnar> I think sleeping UBLOXes screws them up. I need to research this deeper.
[05:46] PA1SDB (c3f1b778@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.241.183.120) joined #highaltitude.
[05:46] <Upu> morning PA1SDB
[05:46] <eroomde_> yes they can be a bit funny, sleeping ubloxes
[05:46] <PA1SDB> §B-12,265,05214F1.6791,4.1882,9963,4,-5,3.67,0.52*7560$$B-12,266,052448,51.548,4.1867,02,8,=Fw3.62,0.51*4cc4 is the best I was able to decode here in JO33KH
[05:47] <eroomde_> there is a substantial article to be written on the appropriate care and feeding for them
[05:47] <Upu> hey PA1SDB do you have dl-fldigi ?
[05:47] <jcoxon> i agree
[05:47] <LeoBodnar> I have been receiving B-12 on Breda globaltuners receiver. But it was deaf as dodo at midnight.
[05:47] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
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[05:48] <g4sgx-iain> Woh.. B11 back again! Nice..
[05:48] <LeoBodnar> Must implement some really harsh reality check for data.
[05:48] <LeoBodnar> Full house
[05:49] <eroomde_> lol
[05:49] <eroomde_> i love mitch
[05:49] <g4sgx-iain> AND its lost path is recorded. Love it.
[05:50] <eroomde_> just put in a quote for 25 pcbs like this
[05:50] <eroomde_> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/or17jebiz66xqc8/xHEnNV8j6z
[05:50] <eroomde_> black solder mask, ENIG plating, 25 off
[05:50] <Upu> go on
[05:50] <eroomde_> comes to like £65
[05:50] <eroomde_> amazing
[05:50] <Upu> lo
[05:51] <eroomde_> would be even less with defaults, but i like the black and gold
[05:51] <LeoBodnar> Is it a current sensor jumper or mini-handle for gremlins? :)
[05:51] <eroomde_> 0.01R 0.1% :)
[05:51] <eroomde_> as you probably guessed
[05:52] <Upu> lol
[05:52] <eroomde_> kelvin connection to an OP90, one of my favourite opamps for embedded stuff
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[05:52] <LeoBodnar> Nice work. I like plenty of silkscreen art.
[05:52] <eroomde_> yeah - it's basically the UI for the user
[05:53] <eroomde_> the thing above is a warning to not put anything metallic/conductive near the antenna
[05:53] <eroomde_> first phone call i got after dropping off the batch last week
[05:53] <eroomde_> 'they've been sitting outside for ten minutes& still no lock!!'
[05:53] <eroomde_> 'where are they outside?'
[05:54] <eroomde_> 'on my car roof'
[05:54] <Upu> heh
[05:54] <LeoBodnar> Haha
[05:54] <eroomde_> suggested putting them on something nonconductive, all locked within 2 minutes
[05:54] <mfa298> I just read the warning and wondered what the end user had done
[05:54] <LeoBodnar> Nonconductive 3D cage
[05:56] <eroomde_> this has probably been worked out in all of the ruminating but what size envelope would you need to make a similar payload live above the tropopause?
[05:56] <LeoBodnar> Opamps with part numbers starting with OP have some cuddly feel to them.
[05:56] <Upu> ah man Leo B-12 at 1'C so your Lipo will charge
[05:56] <LeoBodnar> OP01 etc.
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[05:57] <Upu> if you're doing this intentionally .. :))
[05:57] <LeoBodnar> They obviously expected to design at least another 9
[05:57] <LeoBodnar> Yes, planned
[05:58] <LeoBodnar> Hence black shrink tubing and no insulation
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[06:00] <eroomde_> lol upu
[06:00] <eroomde_> at email
[06:00] <eroomde_> nice
[06:00] <Upu> that was for the GPSL mailing list :)
[06:01] <arko> hahaha
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[06:01] <LeoBodnar> lol
[06:01] <eroomde_> it weighs about the same as a .357 magnum bullet
[06:01] <Upu> haha
[06:02] <LeoBodnar> You like rubbing it in don't you? XD
[06:02] <Upu> yep
[06:02] <arko> Upu's my hero for trolling them
[06:02] <Upu> my inner 14 year old troll will never die
[06:02] <PD4KDZ> Morning what's the log thing in the telemetry
[06:03] <LeoBodnar> PD4KDZ: it's recorder previous positions with 2 hour spacing
[06:03] <LeoBodnar> Just repeats
[06:04] <PD4KDZ> oke just curious
[06:05] <LeoBodnar> They are probably going to float at 9000m
[06:06] <PD4KDZ> DOMX works fine by the way ... strong trunking QRM here but it decodes
[06:06] <LeoBodnar> Nice
[06:07] <LeoBodnar> B-12 has a lot of excess lift so it might rupture under the Sun
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[06:21] SP3OSJ (2eaa3e52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.170.62.82) joined #highaltitude.
[06:22] <SP3OSJ> please set up the box for me
[06:23] <SP3OSJ> Iam flying on Saturday
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[06:24] keydash_ (58139731@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.19.151.49) joined #highaltitude.
[06:24] <SP3OSJ> How to insert tables, my flight
[06:29] <tweetBot> @rafvz: It's floating just above Antwerp my QTH .. @AnthonyStirk: Follow B-12 at http://t.co/5jVqUaIpra #ukhas Details http://t.co/hQr71579Xc
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[06:32] <fsphil> no way
[06:32] <x-f> another nonbeliever :)
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[06:36] <UpuWork> lol
[06:36] <nosebleedkt> hi all
[06:36] <x-f> SP3OSJ, you should make an announcement on the mailing list with all the information (place, time, radio details) - http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas, and create a flight document on http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ and ask to approve it on #habhub
[06:37] <UpuWork> hi nosebleedkt
[06:37] <SP3OSJ> start 07/09/2013 picotracker 437.700 RTTY 7n2 shift 470hz
[06:37] <SP3OSJ> time 10:00
[06:38] <SP3OSJ> 12mw
[06:39] <SP3OSJ> ok]
[06:40] <SP3OSJ> Let's get to work
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[06:42] <UpuWork> ping Brew_
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[06:50] <Bo_DK> Q.... craag is online sometimes right?
[06:50] <Bo_DK> want to ask him about habrotate
[06:52] <LeoBodnar> See you later from work
[06:52] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) left irc:
[06:55] <Bo_DK> to EVERYone: just started to merge habrotate with another bit of code to make it use live gps data rather than a stationary pos. not gotten very far and will update project page as i figure my mistakes etc: http://code.google.com/p/beagle-bone-black-based-hab-listning-station/
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[07:00] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[07:01] <keydash_> hi guys
[07:01] <keydash_> can i use this for ground testing
[07:01] <keydash_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-433Mhz-RF-transmitter-and-receiver-kit-for-Arduino-project-/261041100836
[07:01] <keydash_> ?'
[07:02] <UpuWork> I would suggest you use something known to work
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> I'd be inclined to use one of these if I had a limited budget: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=65
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13> Otherwise I'd use the NTX2; I don't trust chinese stuff
[07:03] <keydash_> xD
[07:03] <keydash_> ntx2 seems expensive for begin testing for me
[07:04] <fsphil> it *seems* expensive
[07:04] <UpuWork> lol
[07:04] <daveake> keydash Best advice I can give is to listen to people here who have done this before, and to not listen to those that haven't
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[07:04] <UpuWork> keydash there is a time and place for saving money when you fully understandthe implications of choosing the components. If you're new to the hobby I would strongly suggest you use what is known to work
[07:05] <daveake> That piece of Chinese crap won't work for the flight and therefore won't be testing anything for you and will be a waste of money as you'll have to buy the real kit anyway
[07:05] <daveake> It's a short-range AM transmitter don't even think about flying one
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[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> Wonderworks launch today :)
[07:08] <keydash_> ok then i'll choose ntx2
[07:08] <ibanezmatt13> excellent choice
[07:09] <number10> thats the easiest to interface to
[07:09] <keydash_> and attach to my arduino
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[07:09] <daveake> easiest and most reliable
[07:09] <PE2G> ibanezmatt13: Goodmorning, I understand that you especially need data above 30 km?
[07:10] <number10> its a work day ibanezmatt13 :(
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> ideally yes
[07:10] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: is there a backup?
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> err, yes one of those satellites phone things fsphil
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> number10: I know :(
[07:10] <fsphil> spot?
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> but we're relying on the radio link and everybody who can receive (not many I understand) :/
[07:11] <keydash_> 22 euros
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[07:12] <number10> you will also need to buy a receiver if you dont have one already keydash_
[07:12] <Bo_DK> what are peeps up to?
[07:13] <keydash_> i've bought rtlsdr
[07:13] <keydash_> smx to pal antena
[07:13] <keydash_> arduino uno
[07:13] <keydash_> futurly ublox gps and ntx2
[07:14] <keydash_> *next
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> what does it mean when in the habitat parser thing the error is "could not save to doc, unauthorised"
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> when you get green decodes
[07:16] <Bo_DK> was trying to visit spacenear us... but b-12 not there?
[07:16] <UpuWork> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[07:16] <UpuWork> what browser
[07:16] <UpuWork> it is there :)
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait
[07:16] <Bo_DK> IE10
[07:17] <UpuWork> press compatibility mode
[07:17] <UpuWork> see if that fixes it
[07:17] <Bo_DK> did... thanks
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[07:18] <UpuWork> seriously does not work in IE10
[07:18] <Bo_DK> not very well no
[07:19] <Bo_DK> i can see it... but big white box on top floods over screen edge etc
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: No the issue was it wasn't uploading the telemetry to habitat. Reason: I'd made the hours of the time field into an integer so it wasn't adding a 0 in front of the 7. It was doing 7:19:45 instead of 07...
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> think we've sorted it
[07:21] <Bo_DK> must also be looking at my code for ground tracker.... a lot of new to learn and understand
[07:22] <ibanezmatt13> same here, I need to learn how to write C code for my NORB boards :/
[07:23] <fsphil> C is lovely
[07:23] <daveake> lovely++
[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> I really like it, just have no experience as of yet :)
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[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> Wonderworks has success :)
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[07:27] <LeoBodnar> Sorry for doodling all over the Europe
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[07:27] <Bo_DK> fsphil: C ??
[07:27] <x-f> B-11 and B-12 will avoid France for the next two days - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/11_trj001.gif
[07:28] <x-f> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/87311_trj001.gif
[07:28] <x-f> sorry
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[07:31] <fsphil> Bo_DK: yes. C :)
[07:32] <Bo_DK> fsphil: not aimed at me right? just got confused.... brain not in gear after my partners shrink yanked us out of deep sleep
[07:33] keydash_cell (~androirc@49.Red-88-19-151.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:34] <daveake> That's a worryingly attentive shrink she has there
[07:34] Nick change: HixGoneHome -> HixWork
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[07:35] <Bo_DK> daveake: hehehe.. they called to ask if she was able to get there 4 hours more early....
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[07:36] <Bo_DK> so trying to get awak with coffee and oatmeal while reading news
[07:36] <Bo_DK> while at news... if you sum them all up we are still fucked according to danish news sites
[07:38] <LeoBodnar> WHen haven't we been?
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[07:39] <HixWork> We're all domed
[07:39] chrisstubbsR (56a76ebc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.167.110.188) joined #highaltitude.
[07:39] <Bo_DK> LeoBodnar: to them a surprise everytime
[07:40] <Bo_DK> same as they some time ago found out that petrol goes up before 10am
[07:40] <Bo_DK> and drops at 10pm
[07:40] <chrisstubbsR> Fantastic news about B-11!
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[07:40] <chrisstubbsR> shame I dont have the CAT cable plugged in back home, still tuned to B-12 and out of range
[07:40] <HixWork> hmm geometric flight
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[07:41] <LeoBodnar> Le Tour de France
[07:41] <UpuWork> well we could do with cleaning up the path
[07:41] <UpuWork> but I lack the necessary skills
[07:41] <chrisstubbsR> LeoBodnar: are the location bugs from an error in the flight log?
[07:42] <HixWork> LeoBodnar which starts in Yorkshire 2014 :)
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[07:42] <LeoBodnar> Big jump yes, small one probably UBLOXes playing up when going to sleep and waking up.
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[07:43] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if B-11 used any performance enhancing stuff
[07:43] <enkidu> from my experience with uBlox they are often having problems
[07:43] <ike> WTF B11 is here
[07:43] <HixWork> EPO electronically powered orbiter
[07:43] <ike> how
[07:44] <UpuWork> not using cheap components ike :)
[07:44] <ike> and his solar is working
[07:44] <UpuWork> yeah charging too
[07:44] <UpuWork> as the temp is > 0
[07:44] <UpuWork> whats fully charged voltage LeoBodnar ?
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> 4.07V or so
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> Just below 4.1V
[07:45] <UpuWork> whats the battery capacity ?
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[07:45] <ike> and where was it for 24H?
[07:46] <Bo_DK> anybody want to have a very good laugh at some python code?
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> B-11 - 190mAh new, B-12 - 110mAh but unknown past.
[07:46] <ike> it's like B-11 was in a Bermuda Triangle
[07:47] ibanezmatt13_ (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) joined #highaltitude.
[07:47] <ike> for 24h
[07:47] <LeoBodnar> Bearmuda
[07:47] G0TDJ_Steve (d49f4aee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.159.74.238) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[07:47] <Bo_DK> http://code.google.com/p/beagle-bone-black-based-hab-listning-station/source/browse/trunk/habrotatelive.py
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[07:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> 'The return of B11'
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[07:48] <HixWork> I'll B11 back
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[07:50] <LeoBodnar> ZomB11
[07:52] <LazyLeopard> ...and the occasional backup track transmissions suddenly make a whole lo of sense! ;)
[07:52] <daveake> FrisB11
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[07:52] <LazyLeopard> s/lo /lot / ;)
[07:53] <ike> LazyLeopard didn't you have tracking nick?
[07:53] SP3OSJ_ (2eaa3e52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.170.62.82) joined #highaltitude.
[07:53] <ike> now you track 2 HABs at once
[07:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> B11directional
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13_> By the way daveake, there was no lens cover on the Pi Cam :P
[07:53] <LeoBodnar> ibanezmatt13_: are you flying today?
[07:53] <daveake> orly?
[07:53] Action: LazyLeopard has not got the rig wired up at the moment...
[07:53] <ibanezmatt13_> LeoBodnar: I've done all the coding for someone who's launching LeoBodnar
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13_> daveake: yea, not sure why quality was so poor. Proabably a duff camera
[07:54] <daveake> There was something there - pictures were blurry and there were flashes of green after burst
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> If you want to get rid of B-* use the link http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=Wonderworks-PP
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13_> Cheers Leo
[07:54] <enkidu> no way it will pass near me
[07:55] Nick change: chrisstubbsR -> chrisstubbsAFK
[07:55] <ike> enkidu catch it, if you can :)
[07:55] <enkidu> not with my GP antenna :P plus its over 1000 km
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah, quite important that Wonderworks-PP gets trackers at 30km
[07:56] <ike> did B12 just use teleport?
[07:56] <SP3OSJ_> What voltage gives solar-panel the sun?
[07:57] <gonzo__> how did we get the extra hourly plot points for B11??
[07:58] <ike> backup
[07:58] <ike> I think
[07:58] <gonzo__> I did wonder af that was the case
[07:58] <gonzo__> I didn't look at the temel so didn't notice if it sent any history
[07:59] WillDWork (c2498339@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.73.131.57) joined #highaltitude.
[07:59] <ike> so yesterday's ghost signals at 434.500 was real?
[08:01] <LeoBodnar> it sends the flight log every 2 hours on the first transmission after an even UTC hour so after 02:00 04:00 etc
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[08:02] <gonzo__> damn good idea
[08:03] <ike> can solar battery overcharge Li-po one?
[08:03] <LeoBodnar> No
[08:04] <ike> how big is backlog? 24H? 48H?
[08:05] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[08:05] <gonzo__> just saw it do that leo. Nice one
[08:05] <G0TDJ_AFK> Back later guys!
[08:05] Action: G0TDJ_AFK waves
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[08:08] <LeoBodnar> 5 days ike
[08:08] <ike> cool
[08:08] <LeoBodnar> buy G0TDJ_AFK
[08:08] <LeoBodnar> bye rather
[08:09] <PE2G> ike: The log from a few min ago: http://sharetext.org/McPT
[08:10] <ike> what is Solar Panel: 0.61 is it 0.61mA?
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[08:10] <mikestir-work> B11 reappeared then!
[08:11] WD8MNV (32889d60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.136.157.96) joined #highaltitude.
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> No, 0.61V
[08:11] <ike> mikestir-work: B11 reappeared - and send it's backlog
[08:12] <LeoBodnar> mikestir-work: Upu spotted it from 950km away
[08:12] <mikestir-work> so it was that last night then
[08:12] <mikestir-work> Upu must be pleased :)
[08:12] <LeoBodnar> yes
[08:12] <UpuWork> confused
[08:12] <UpuWork> is a better word
[08:12] <mikestir-work> that must have been way below your horizon?
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[08:13] HanzZ (hanzz@nat/redhat/x-tjviomdjvqgusjsw) left #highaltitude ("Konversation terminated!").
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[08:13] <UpuWork> yeah
[08:15] <gonzo__> do we get dx records for history logs?
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[08:16] <GMT> ibanezmatt13_: what time for your/your mates launch today?, and where from?
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13_> 12:00 BST, at Royston, UK :)
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[08:18] <GMT> okay, thanks, may listen to that for a while, assuming B-11 is still going strong
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks! It's getting up to 30km where we need the decodes mostly
[08:19] <GMT> okay, I'm in w London, so it may be a bit 'marginal', but I will give it a go
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13_> thank you
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13_> mikestir-work: that horizon calculator you used the other week, what was it and how do you use it?
[08:19] <enkidu> got something that loooks like "time code" on 433.901
[08:19] <GMT> I take it there won't be live TV, so how will we know when it launches?
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll tell you :)
[08:20] <GMT> okay then!
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13_> Is there some way I can find out at what altitude I'll be able to pick the payload up?
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13_> Some sort of horizon calculator
[08:23] <PE2G> http://radiontvangst.freehostia.com/calc.htm (in Dutch)
[08:23] <Bo_DK> ibanezmatt13_: i have been looking for something similar.... kind of googlemap that shows elevation so i can figure where to set up listner
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13_> thankfully there's google translate :)
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks
[08:24] <WD8MNV> what are people listening with?
[08:24] <Bo_DK> ibanezmatt13_: maybe if it even showed buildings etc
[08:24] <PE2G> Antennehoogte = antenne height
[08:24] <PE2G> Ontvanger = receiver
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13_> But that wont take hills into account will it PE2G ?
[08:24] <PE2G> zender = transmitter
[08:24] <mikestir-work> ibanezmatt13_: that tool is called "radio mobile" but it's meant for ground-based links
[08:24] <GMT> WD8MNV: do you mean what sort of RX?
[08:24] <PE2G> No hills taken into account.
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13_> ah
[08:25] <WD8MNV> yes... and software in general
[08:25] <mikestir-work> you could try it with a huge antenna height for the far end
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13_> so basically, when it's at 30km, I could receive it :)
[08:25] <enkidu> what is exact frequency of B12?
[08:25] <GMT> WD8MNV: well, I'm using a scanner, the software is called DL-FLDIGI
[08:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh it drifted off 2:50 minutes ago!
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[08:26] <ike> enkidu: what is exact frequency of B12 434500KHz-500Hz
[08:27] <enkidu> so no way I could receive it here, cause security TX is using this frequency
[08:27] <HixWork> mornin' Babs___
[08:27] <GMT> enkidu: where are you then?
[08:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its quite a robust signal and can get thru iterference
[08:27] <enkidu> Gdansk, PL
[08:28] <GMT> oh, okay
[08:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434499.600 with a bandwidth of 300Hz centered on 750Hz
[08:30] <Bo_DK> anyone bored enough to want to help me slightly with some python code? think i got the idea but have some doubts... ie if i understand it right
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[08:31] <ibanezmatt13_> Bo_DK: I would but I'm gonna be a bit on and off with the Wonderworks launch
[08:32] <Bo_DK> np....
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13_> what's the code for?
[08:32] <Bo_DK> its a tweak of habrotate... so it uses live gps data instead of a config file
[08:32] <Bo_DK> getting links of org code and what i have done
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13_> oh cool
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[08:33] <Bo_DK> yeah
[08:33] <Bo_DK> and later i will try and add servo control... ie so it can aim yagi at payload
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13_> nice
[08:34] <Bo_DK> so.... i took this: https://github.com/thecraag/habrotate/blob/master/cli/habrotate-cli.py
[08:34] <Bo_DK> and
[08:34] <Bo_DK> merged this in:
[08:34] <Bo_DK> http://www.danmandle.com/blog/getting-gpsd-to-work-with-python/
[08:34] <Bo_DK> my code here:
[08:34] <Bo_DK> http://code.google.com/p/beagle-bone-black-based-hab-listning-station/source/browse/trunk/habrotatelive.py
[08:34] <Bo_DK> notes:
[08:35] <mfa298> Bo_DK: if you're heavily using habrotate then that's a very good reason to be using git as you can then get updates to the habrotate code
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[08:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh wow only just realised its B-11 come back not B-12!!
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[08:35] <Bo_DK> habrotate uses a config file for staions pos.... since that only holds pos and elevation and 2 other settings i decided to hardcode settings
[08:35] <LeoBodnar> Q: can i get the client code for the spacenear.us/tracker and run it on my server? I want to tinker with it a little bit
[08:36] <Bo_DK> ALSO
[08:36] <Bo_DK> habrotate had code to send to a rotator over network vis udp packets... want that out since i will direct control servos
[08:36] <Bo_DK> but added a lot of Q's in my code
[08:37] <mikestir-work> ibanezmatt13_: regarding receiving launches from down south. I can usually hear most payloads not far beyond the blue line, although not necessarily get decodes at that point
[08:38] <mikestir-work> that's just with the yagi in the loft aimed on a compass bearing in the right general direction
[08:38] <mikestir-work> I don't bother steering it
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13_> ah cool, I'll give it a go when I'm very near the green. I only have a vertical so my chances are slim :/
[08:38] <mikestir-work> I thought you had a yagi?
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13_> Borrowed Upu'd
[08:38] <mfa298> If they're not that similar then you're better off just coping the bits of code you need (or adapting them to your purpose) rather than creating something that's bolting random bits of stuff together
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13_> Upu's*
[08:39] <mikestir-work> you should make one. Mine seems to be performing really well
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, I never trust myself when making things. They usually turn out really bad
[08:39] <mikestir-work> I have a lot of local QRM so you might be ok
[08:40] <mfa298> in a decent location a vertical is all you need.
[08:40] <mikestir-work> yeah I mean the 7 ele is only going to be about 7 or 8 dB better
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm lucky to get -5db
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13_> usually
[08:41] <mikestir-work> getting a vertical higher and outside of the loft would yield more signal
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13_> I usually have it on the car roof on the drive
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13_> brb breakfast
[08:43] <mfa298> if you're on a suitable side of the house it could be worth sticking it on something metal (that it sticks to) and out the window
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[08:44] <mfa298> I'm just using a GP similar to what's on a hab at the moment. Had strong signals when B-11 was over jersey and would have got decodes earlier if windows hadnt updated
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[08:45] <charolastra_> hi, so B-12 is a floater?
[08:46] <UpuWork> it is yes
[08:46] <UpuWork> mclane is southern germany ?
[08:47] <HanzZ> what's needed to track the baloon?
[08:47] <HanzZ> we are in south czech republic
[08:47] <HanzZ> having HAM license ;)
[08:47] <Joel_re> yay its HanzZ !
[08:48] Action: HanzZ will do some rtfm
[08:48] <Joel_re> HanzZ: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[08:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> HanzZ, SSB Rx on 434Mhz and dl-fldigi decoder software
[08:48] <mfa298> HanzZ: a reciever that can do ssb on 70cms and dl-fldigi are the main things you need
[08:49] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE-M: snap
[08:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LoL
[08:49] <HanzZ> right, I was able to get it on SDR
[08:49] <HanzZ> but I'm at work now :)
[08:49] <PE2G> I've posted a heads-up about B-12 to a German met-balloon forum but no reply yet
[08:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> staggerd a while back I thought B-12 had drifted in freq!
[08:50] <LeoBodnar> so is it drifting?
[08:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> nO IT WAS b-11 COME BACK
[08:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I lost B12 around 0700 this morning
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[08:51] <UpuWork> you have some time HanzZ I suspect its not in range yet
[08:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> looks like B-11 and B-12 want to get together from the predictions
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[08:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LeoBodnar, Do you have a limit on the log size ?
[08:53] <SP3OSJ_> B12 Welcome to Germany
[08:53] <LeoBodnar> 5 days Geoff-G8DHE-M
[08:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Might be enough then ..... :-)
[08:57] <Bo_DK> Q: anyone have played with mikestir-work 's webradio to do decode?
[08:58] Action: HanzZ would like to decode too
[08:59] <mfa298> Bo_DK: you'de be better off asking the real question.
[08:59] <mfa298> Whilst I've used mike's webradio I may or may not be able to help depending on the question
[09:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LeoBodnar, Excellent idea to include the log ! We need to get the habhab lads to be able to handle the idea on the trcking as well!
[09:00] <x-f> Bo_DK, i have done that, it worked in testing at home
[09:00] <Bo_DK> x-f great....
[09:00] <mattbrejza> Geoff-G8DHE-M: its a spacenear issue, and spacenear isnt as actively in development as the rest of the system
[09:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I know ;-)
[09:01] <Bo_DK> x-f: would be a great addition to the system i try to build up
[09:01] <Bo_DK> going to compile a list of hardware bits needed
[09:01] <mattbrejza> the android app should be fine though (i say that but im not sure whether itll like the time format without a bit of modification)
[09:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> well not only that the db also logs the records the same way, I use GE a lot and hence have a load of lines back to base !
[09:01] <Bo_DK> later that is
[09:02] <Joel_re> HanzZ: I think you need a virtual audio cable between SDR# and fldgi if thats what you're using
[09:02] <mattbrejza> /mt is a bit sad though
[09:03] <Bo_DK> x-f: how well did it work etc etc etc?
[09:03] <HanzZ> hm, will it be still somewhere near czech republic after 5 hours?
[09:03] <HanzZ> probably not :)
[09:06] <x-f> Bo_DK, it worked for me, however i didn't do any deep tests with it, and keep in mind, that webradio is still in early development, lots of things for now are hardcoded, it isn't ready just yet
[09:07] <Bo_DK> x-f: i know.... talking with mike on reg basis.... and time is always an issue....
[09:08] <Bo_DK> x-f: getting it to work and have it autotune would be a big welcome feature
[09:09] <x-f> so you wan't your setup to be completely autonomous?
[09:09] <LeoBodnar> Is it possible to get the client code that spacenear.us is running? I want to play with it a bit.
[09:09] <x-f> payload -> your thingy -> habitat?
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[09:10] <LeoBodnar> No, just to try to clean up a map a bit
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> And understand how it works
[09:10] <Bo_DK> x-f: that was the plan in the end yes
[09:10] <Bo_DK> x-f: know it will take time
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13_> UpuWork: Sarantels purchased for when we come up
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[09:12] <Bo_DK> x-f: but it should have some kind of web interface so it can be controlled remotely... but webradio should not be important right now... now i just want to aim the yagi
[09:12] <UpuWork> nps got it thx
[09:13] <mikestir-work> I've had to park webradio for a few weeks due to other commitments, but I pushed the current version to github so I'll accept pull requests if anyone does anything on it
[09:13] <mikestir-work> should get back to it in a month or so
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[09:14] <mattbrejza> mikestir-work: how easy will it be to get running on windows? say perhaps with only audio from soundcard?
[09:14] <mattbrejza> btw UpuWork i ment to order stuff from you, not too late for the conf if i do it soon?
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[09:15] <UpuWork> no you're good until tommorrow morning
[09:15] <Bo_DK> mikestir-work: no problem... i was just aiming a little ahead :-D
[09:15] <UpuWork> but sooner is better for me thx
[09:16] <mikestir-work> mattbrejza: it would need a new IO block for windows audio, but since it doesn't have any decoders yet it wouldn't really be of much use unless by soundcard you mean FCD?
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[09:16] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:17] <x-f> hi
[09:17] <mattbrejza> well i was going to add a decoder than make it work on windows :P
[09:17] <x-f> Lunar_LanderU, is your radio ready and available for tracking right now?
[09:17] <Lunar_LanderU> I got my Stabo XR100 scanner here at uni
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[09:18] <mikestir-work> I'm still not happy with the channel filter either. I need to look at using overlap-add instead of a time domain FIR - that would be my next port of call I think
[09:18] <Lunar_LanderU> what settings?
[09:18] <Maxell> B-11 is on the same freq as B-12. Will I be able to recieve both by just tuning to one freq?
[09:18] <Maxell> Both are DomEX16 right?
[09:19] <mattbrejza> mikestir-work: this filter being after the CIC and filtering before sending the audio to the listener?
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[09:20] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> again
[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> which settings?
[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> USB, LSB, FM?
[09:20] <UpuWork> if you feed the same signal into 2 dl-fldigis you can decode both Maxell
[09:20] <PE2G> Maxell: I believe they are a few 100 Hz apart
[09:20] <UpuWork> oh hello Lunar_LanderU
[09:20] <UpuWork> 434.500
[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> only noise
[09:20] <UpuWork> Domino EX16
[09:20] <x-f> USB
[09:21] <UpuWork> look for some pips in the noise
[09:21] <PE2G> I have B-12 on 434.5009
[09:21] <x-f> LLU, it's not transmitting continously
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> I just did autoconfigure on dl-fldigi
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> I can see one rather strong line
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> 434.501.8
[09:24] <Maxell> UpuWork: but they are the same DomEX16 yes
[09:24] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU: It doesn't show as a line
[09:24] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
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[09:25] <Lunar_LanderU> so what am I looking for?
[09:25] <mikestir-work> mattbrejza: after the CIC and before demod. it might be possible to omit it for some decoders, but it may still be desirable to get some extra decimation (since the CIC is not very flat)
[09:25] <Lunar_LanderU> what should I see
[09:26] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU: This is what I see (the beeps) : http://s9.postimg.org/eyrgzagjj/Screen1047.jpg
[09:26] <Lunar_LanderU> also, where can I put the station location in dl-fldigi?
[09:26] <mattbrejza> well ive seen CIC 'de-flatteners' use FIR
[09:26] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
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[09:26] <mattbrejza> but if youre demodulating on the flat part just FIR recieve filters should be fine
[09:27] <mattbrejza> can always add a bit more gain to one RTTY one
[09:27] <mattbrejza> *tone
[09:27] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: later I want to start routing the SMD board
[09:28] <Bo_DK> out for some hours to rest my head.... ideas suggestions etc etc for my python code so far are welcome.... either here in the open or a short pm would be very welcome
[09:29] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU: here B-12 sending data: http://s13.postimg.org/kwajv0o13/Screen1048.jpg
[09:29] <mikestir-work> Bo_DK: you could try that geodetic2ecef code snippet and a bit of trig to see if you can get the same answers as habrotate
[09:29] <mikestir-work> that might save you having to do a cut and shut
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[09:30] <Lunar_LanderU_> damn wrong buttons
[09:30] <Bo_DK> mikestir-work: tried to look last night.... made no sense to me...
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[09:31] <Bo_DK> i'm not the sharpest knife in the kitchen when it comes to learn new stuff :-D
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[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU_> can somone please answer my question about the location info in dl-fldigi?
[09:31] <Maxell> Not seeing B-11... B-12 is still coming in strong. I'll focus more on B-12 since UK guys can handle B-11 right now.
[09:31] <number10> ah Lunar_LanderU_ - there is a balloon heading in your direction - do you have your radio?
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[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU_> yeah and I am trying to set it up number10
[09:31] <number10> thats cool
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[09:32] <Lunar_LanderU_> do you know how in the world to set up the station location in dl-fldigi?
[09:32] <x-f> DL-Client -> Configure -> Location
[09:32] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU_: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide:german
[09:33] Nick change: Bo_DK -> Bo_DK_Resting
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[09:34] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU_: here you can find your decimal coordinates http://www.mcaviglia.ch/gmap/get_coor_ext.asp
[09:34] <Lunar_LanderU_> yeah I know that
[09:34] <Lunar_LanderU_> thanks
[09:34] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, toys have arrived!
[09:34] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tn3uhvbcvumju1v/2013-09-03%2010.30.53.jpg
[09:34] <Lunar_LanderU_> ah thanks
[09:34] <Lunar_LanderU_> I searched the options high and low
[09:34] <UpuWork> beasties eroomde
[09:34] <mattbrejza> :D
[09:34] <eroomde> they are quite
[09:34] <UpuWork> flipping huge
[09:34] <eroomde> and they weight a tonne
[09:34] <eroomde> it's almost all transformer
[09:34] <UpuWork> can imagine
[09:34] <mattbrejza> linear?
[09:35] <eroomde> they have like 20 secondaries in there
[09:35] <eroomde> mattbrejza, of course!
[09:35] <mattbrejza> :P
[09:35] <eroomde> 10.345V = 10.345V too, according to our nice multimeter
[09:35] <mattbrejza> at that age i guess too
[09:35] <Lunar_LanderU_> eroomde: cool
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[09:36] <enkidu> I cannot get git fldigi to work
[09:36] <Lunar_LanderU_> no chance
[09:36] <Lunar_LanderU_> too far away simply
[09:37] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU_: You also got an FT-790R :)
[09:37] <Lunar_LanderU_> at home
[09:37] <PE2G> Ah
[09:37] <enkidu> it says there is newer version, but it is git snapshot
[09:37] <x-f> Lunar_LanderU_, Upu did it 900 km away!
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13_> Wonderworks at launch site and txing
[09:37] <mfa298> enkidu: in most cases you're probably better off using a packaged version. otherwise follow the info on the wiki to compile it.
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[09:37] <Lunar_LanderU_> yea
[09:37] <Lunar_LanderU_> but with a yagi for sure?
[09:37] <UpuWork> that was a fluke
[09:37] <enkidu> mfa298: I just compiled git one.
[09:37] <UpuWork> and wasn't a real decode
[09:38] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: what advantages does the TCXO give in the ublox? will the non-txco one get sad if it tries to cold start in the cold?
[09:38] <mfa298> enkidu: if you downloaded the zip file then it will tell you there's a newer version as it wont know which version you compiled
[09:39] <UpuWork> doubt it mattbrejza they are rated to -40'C
[09:39] <UpuWork> TCXO gives quicker initial lock and relock from warm start etc
[09:39] <mattbrejza> oh right
[09:39] <mfa298> enkidu: bit if you're on ubuntu or similar there's a package you can install which is probably easier than compiling from source
[09:39] <UpuWork> also if you loose lock due to COCOM limits being exceeded they'll regain it quicker
[09:40] <UpuWork> but you're talking a few seconds
[09:40] <enkidu> no, it wanted just callsing this time, ugh
[09:40] <mattbrejza> does the datasheet give lock times for with/withought tcxo?
[09:40] <UpuWork> yes
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[09:40] <enkidu> also, i am reported on map
[09:40] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/MAX-7_DataSheet_%28GPS.G7-HW-12012%29.pdf
[09:41] <UpuWork> but lock times on datasheets are whatever
[09:41] <mattbrejza> did you haev to sign a NDA to get the datasheet for the AMY?
[09:41] <UpuWork> nope
[09:41] <UpuWork> want it ?
[09:41] <mattbrejza> yea sure
[09:42] <Lunar_LanderU_> UpuWork: can you assist later getting started with the SMD routing?
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[09:42] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/AMY-6M-%20Hardware%20Integration%20Manual.pdf
[09:42] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/amy-6m_datasheet_gps.g6-hw-10052.pdf
[09:42] <mattbrejza> thanks :)
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[09:43] <fsphil> it's still going
[09:43] <fsphil> what madness is this
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[09:45] <fsphil> both at rather high altitudes for foils
[09:45] <mattbrejza> oh the 7s have glonass too
[09:45] <mattbrejza> forgot about that
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[09:45] <mfa298> seems to be a much more stable float at >8km for the foils though
[09:46] <mattbrejza> 8-11km is plane cruise altitude
[09:46] <mattbrejza> i wonder if its been seen
[09:48] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: you need to stock combined gps/glonass antennas now :P
[09:48] <UpuWork> samples coming in
[09:48] <mattbrejza> ah
[09:48] <mattbrejza> same footprint?
[09:48] <UpuWork> no
[09:48] <mattbrejza> massively different?
[09:49] <Lunar_LanderU_> wonder if B-12 gets picked up here later on
[09:49] Action: mfa298 looks at Bo's project on google: There's something wrong when the project name is longer than the description!
[09:49] <UpuWork> not sure people are going to be using Glonass anyway
[09:50] <mattbrejza> well it should improve accuracy, but these things are probably very decent already
[09:50] <PE2G> Lunar_LanderU_: Can you get on a roof somewhere? You'd be able to receive it.
[09:51] <Lunar_LanderU_> well I am already on the top floor
[09:51] <Lunar_LanderU_> :)
[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU_> 3rd floor in fact
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[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU_> OK SMD routing
[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU_> can anyone help me getting started please?
[09:53] <Lunar_LanderU_> have all my parts in EAGLE 6.5.0 now
[09:53] <enkidu> is it normal that there is nothing on waterfall plot?
[09:53] <GMT> Has B-11 missed it's TX slot, no update for over 10 minutes
[09:54] <Lunar_LanderU_> mattbrejza: you said 10 mil for track width is OK
[09:54] <mattbrejza> yea
[09:54] <mattbrejza> maybe increase to 16mil for power tracks
[09:54] <mfa298> enkidu: you might need to setup the soundcard in dl-fldgi to use the right input and also configure the soundcard to get the right levels etc.
[09:54] <Lunar_LanderU_> OK
[09:54] <Lunar_LanderU_> and Vias?
[09:54] <joph> Lunar_LanderU_, http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Richtiges_Designen_von_Platinenlayouts
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU_> I am astonished that I can select smaller vias than the drill size
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU_> :S
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU_> thanks joph
[09:55] <enkidu> joph: minimal values I was able to order were like 4mils pad/isolation
[09:55] <joph> Lunar_LanderU_, there's another doc
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU_> ok
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU_> yeah I am led by hackvanas specs
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU_> he has 6 mil minimum
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU_> but 4 mil on special oder
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU_> order
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU_> and I think that is more expensive
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU_> mattbrejza: when I did the big board, the people in Hackvana mentioned to me to watch out for a 50 ohm track from the NTX2 to the SMA
[09:59] <Lunar_LanderU_> so I suppose that should be done on this version too
[09:59] <Maxell> Oh noes. dl-fldigi crashed!
[09:59] <Lunar_LanderU_> (sorry had an error when I typed that, thought I'd have to do a 50 Ohm track from the atmega too)
[09:59] <joph> http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/general/msp/intrface/1394/preview/layout.pdf
[09:59] <Maxell> And I noticed by checking http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/ :P
[10:00] <joph> http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/szza009/szza009.pdf
[10:00] <joph> http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/scaa031/scaa031.pdf
[10:00] <GMT> Wonderworks-PP has moved to its launch location at Royston
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[10:00] <joph> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/an/AN/AN-42036.pdf
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13_> yep :)
[10:00] <joph> http://alternatezone.com/electronics/files/PCBDesignTutorialRevA.pdf <<< have a look at this one
[10:00] <GMT> ibanezmatt13_: what's the payload name, is it still on 434.075?
[10:00] <Maxell> F5APQ was gaining more packets and mine was not increasing. However, I now see both B-11 and B-12.
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13_> Payload has same name
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13_> I think they're getting it on 434.05
[10:01] <GMT> wow, long name!
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13_> yep :)
[10:01] <daveake> ibanezmatt13_ Likely launch time?
[10:01] <Lunar_LanderU_> thanks joph
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13_> should be 11 UTC, 12 BST
[10:01] <daveake> cheers
[10:01] <x-f> Maxell, you are using two fl-digi's now?
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13_> you tracking daveake?
[10:03] <joph> Lunar_LanderU_, there are a lot of guides for layouting
[10:03] <mattbrejza> UpuWork: would you prefer to be paid in cash at the conf? (does paypal charge you fees?)
[10:03] <joph> have a look at your university libary, they should also offer stuff like this
[10:03] <UpuWork> no to be honest paypal it pls
[10:03] <Lunar_LanderU_> joph: thanks, the last one doesn't loat at the moment :(
[10:03] <mattbrejza> ok np
[10:04] <joph> yeah, takes a lot of time to load
[10:04] <Lunar_LanderU_> joph: wait
[10:04] <Lunar_LanderU_> is it
[10:04] <Lunar_LanderU_> is that DAVE JONES?
[10:04] <joph> *g*
[10:04] <joph> maybe
[10:05] <Lunar_LanderU_> XD
[10:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Looks like B-11 recognises its been there before its gone back for a second look!
[10:06] <HixWork> Didn't b-5/6 do a similar thing in France
[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That one did a figure of 8 I think!
[10:08] <ibanezmatt13_> Wonderworks is Txing
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[10:09] <ibanezmatt13_> launch soon
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[10:10] <UpuWork> thanks mattbrejza
[10:10] <mattbrejza> :)
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[10:12] <G0TDJ_AFK> nick G0TDJ_Steve
[10:13] <Lunar_LanderU_> lunchtime!
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[10:13] <G0TDJ_AFK> ibanezmatt13_: Is Wonderworks a foil or latex?
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13_> latex
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13_> not sure what size though
[10:14] <G0TDJ_AFK> Cool, might have a chance of tracking once it gets up.
[10:14] <daveake> on 434.050 ??
[10:14] <G0TDJ_AFK> What's the expected max alt?
[10:14] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is this Wonderworks a commercial flight ?
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Commercial?
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13_> yes
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> I mean, what does that mean?
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Disyney ?
[10:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Disney
[10:16] <ibanezmatt13_> haha no :)
[10:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's being sponsored by a large company?
[10:16] <ibanezmatt13_> if you track it, you'll find out what it's for :)
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[10:16] <ibanezmatt13_> yes G0TDJ_Steve
[10:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Fair enough :-)
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13_> Everything's worked perfectly in testing so assuming the hardware side of things is ok, everything should go to plan
[10:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll give it a go once the 5deg line has passed me. 434.050 yes?
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Plans always work before being put to the test ;-)
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13_> lol
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13_> yes Geoff-G8DHE
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13_> sorry G0TDJ_Steve
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13_> yes
[10:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Thanks
[10:18] <GMT> Wonderworks has been pre-programmed to fly a certain route, and the track will spell out the name of the product.
[10:18] <ike> B-12's battery is overcharging ;)
[10:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> daveake: 4334.050 confirmed for Wonderworks
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13_> not quite GMT
[10:19] <GMT> I know!
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13_> Using a 434.075 NTX2 G0TDJ_Steve but I believe they were decoding it well on 434.05. It'll probably change a bit
[10:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> sorry daveake 434.050 of course
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13_> GMT: As good as that would be :)
[10:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Thanks ibanezmatt13_
[10:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13_: Rough idea of time before launch? Just a ballpark figure.
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13_> Err, they're pretty set on 12 BST
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13_> 40 mins
[10:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cool. I can get a few bits sorted out - See you then :-)
[10:21] <ike> so it's WONDERWORKS 434.075, B-11 434.500 DominoEX16, B-12 434.4995 DominoEX16
[10:21] <ibanezmatt13_> Thanks,
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[10:23] <GMT> ike: that's pretty much it. Wonderworks may be on a slightly lower freq, we will have to wait until launch
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[10:27] <ibanezmatt13_> Launch delayed by 30 mins
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13_> G0TDJ_Steve, GMT, daveake 12:30 launch
[10:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13_> Someone from the launch team went to the site to set it up and has now left heading home to get to his receiving station. But, the payload has stopped txing :O
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> Oh noes.
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13_> Hopefully the rest of the team know what to do :/
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13_: Run in circles, scream and shout?
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> Duck and cover?
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> well, he's driving so I can't contact him just yet. It may be intended to save power
[10:29] <mattbrejza> so what h/w is flying, their own design? your deisng ibanezmatt13_ ?
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> Wait for the little green man?
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> mattbrejza: Pi, NTX2, Ublox max 6
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Pi Face
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Relays
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Motors, LEDs etc
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Go Pro
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13_> Pi Cam
[10:30] <mattbrejza> ssdv?
[10:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Any live pics ibanezmatt13_?
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13_> nah
[10:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Awwww
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13_> well, we're really relying on getting decodes at 30km so we thought not to risk it
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[10:31] <ibanezmatt13_> yea they may have just disconnected power to save battery juice
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13_> I hope :
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[10:33] <LeoBodnar> are you a bit happier now eroomde ? XD
[10:34] Action: SpeedEvil contemplates a connector song.
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> To the tune of 'Though we die, la resistance lives on' - from south park
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[10:36] <mattbrejza> do you intend to keep the 'blame canada bit'?
[10:37] Action: HixWork resists the urge to mention the Kevin Bloody wilson song....
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[10:38] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, yes tho needs a cal
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[10:38] <ike> ibanezmatt13_ I want that payload, too bad that I'm 10 000km away ;(
[10:38] <ibanezmatt13_> holy moly, I don't think you'll get it there then
[10:39] <HixWork> whereabouts are you ike?
[10:39] <ike> bulgaristan
[10:40] <ibanezmatt13_> I can't tell if this is normal or not but I just had a a packet of crisps and now I'm having another packet actually on my sandwich...
[10:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Your a Northerner so of course you have Crisp Sandwiches
[10:41] <HixWork> ahh, thought you were in Canada
[10:41] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[10:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Black pudding ?
[10:42] <ibanezmatt13_> occasionaly
[10:42] <fsphil> Crisp Sandwiches are awesome
[10:42] <HixWork> Drool - eroomde - http://droidworx.co.nz/products/shop/category/flir-cameras/cameras/
[10:42] <HixWork> crispy bacon sandwiches
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Crumble it over the crisps is best
[10:43] <ibanezmatt13_> crispy bacon sandwich with smoky bacon crisps... wow
[10:43] <enkidu> nice - seems, that I cannot capture anything using any of my soundcards
[10:43] <ibanezmatt13_> I wonder how wonderworks is getting on
[10:43] <x-f> why are you not there with them?
[10:43] <ibanezmatt13_> I couldn't make it
[10:44] <ibanezmatt13_> Well, I would have had to drive all the way down and back up, and then back down for the conf
[10:44] <mattbrejza> tbh its obvious really, you should just move to the south
[10:44] <ibanezmatt13_> I don't think my Dad would enjoy so much travelling considering he's going to USA the day after the conf too :/
[10:44] <mattbrejza> where its warmer and stuff
[10:44] <ibanezmatt13_> yes mattbrejza :)
[10:44] <daveake> Will it be a wonder if it works? :p
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[10:44] <ibanezmatt13_> I wonder
[10:45] <Thejoker> hi everyone can i make a question?
[10:45] <eroomde> HixWork, nice
[10:45] Action: ibanezmatt13_ puts more crisps on his sandwich as theyve all fallen off
[10:45] <daveake> Yes you have 1 question per day, and now you've used it up
[10:45] <keydash_job> going home
[10:45] <eroomde> we flew a FLIR IR camera on our blimp
[10:45] <keydash_job> bye
[10:45] <eroomde> was lovely
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[10:46] <ibanezmatt13_> this is why it's taken me so long to get things done Thejoker :) Too many Q's, not enough A's :)
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13_> shoot
[10:47] <Thejoker> so ... can someone tell me how rtty work and how is it possible to let it work?
[10:47] <mikestir-work> ibanezmatt13_: I moved to the south once, but their beer is rubbish so I moved back
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13_> haha, my Dad actually lived in Germany for a year just for that reason mikestir-work
[10:47] <HixWork> eroomde 25Hz IR cool
[10:48] <eroomde> yep
[10:48] <eroomde> was a huge brick
[10:48] <eroomde> ethernet
[10:48] <eroomde> self cal
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[10:48] <mattbrejza> http://www.ringwoodbrewery.co.uk/ mikestir-work
[10:48] <eroomde> 0.01K resolution
[10:48] <mattbrejza> :P
[10:48] <ibanezmatt13_> haha
[10:48] <eroomde> you could see which keys people had pressed for their password on their keyboard after they'd stopped typing
[10:48] <mikestir-work> mattbrejza: ringwood does fortyniner right?
[10:48] <Thejoker> yeah its great i've already see that guide , but is it possible to make it with raspberry pi?
[10:48] <mikestir-work> i like that
[10:48] <eroomde> just from residual heat
[10:48] <fsphil> sweet
[10:48] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:49] <eroomde> we crashed it into a glacial waterfall in the alps
[10:49] <eroomde> that was a good day
[10:49] <eroomde> oh no wait
[10:49] <HixWork> ouch
[10:49] <eroomde> that was a bad day
[10:49] <eroomde> i totally lost control of it
[10:49] <eroomde> switch to manual
[10:49] <HixWork> oneof the new gen ones is 165x110x110mm and 454g
[10:49] <eroomde> but it was stuck in some crazy wind
[10:49] <fsphil> Thejoker: unless you're doing something fancier than basic tracking, there's no point in using a Pi
[10:49] <eroomde> went screaming down the valley
[10:49] <eroomde> was trying to dive it
[10:50] <eroomde> i wanted to put a pair of solid rocket motors on a pod for the v2
[10:50] <eroomde> just for diving
[10:50] <Thejoker> and for something like ssvd
[10:50] <eroomde> with a Leroy Jenkins button in a red missile switch on the remote control
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13_> Thejoker: In that case use the Pi
[10:51] <mattbrejza> :/
[10:51] <UpuWork> B-12's battery has charged
[10:51] <UpuWork> most epic
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[10:51] <Thejoker> is it complicated to do ? i mean ssdv if not there is a guide somewere?
[10:52] <Lunar_LanderU_> back
[10:52] <Lunar_LanderU_> PE2G: do you have a dial frequency?
[10:53] <PE2G> 434.5009
[10:53] <ibanezmatt13_> Thejoker: It's not ridiculously hard really. There's a program that does it for you
[10:53] <Lunar_LanderU_> got that
[10:53] <Lunar_LanderU_> no signal currently
[10:53] <UpuWork> turn the volume down so most of the back ground on the waterfall is blue
[10:53] <UpuWork> and look for the pips
[10:53] <PE2G> B12 still quite strong here
[10:53] <ibanezmatt13_> Thejoker: You literally run the program for a picture and it will spit out a file with the individual ssdv packets in. Then you just read the file packet by packet and send them, simple
[10:54] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13_: did you want ww-pp cleared from the map to reset the path?
[10:54] <UpuWork> looks like this : http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/4.png
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thejoker, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13_> that would be good yes mattbrejza
[10:54] <ike> I have APRS question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio#Physical_layer:_modem_and_radio_channel so Bell 202 1200 bit/s 1200 Hz for Mark and 2200 Hz for space so does it mean that when it send 1200Hz tone it send only 1 period?
[10:54] <mattbrejza> dne
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13_> thank you :)
[10:54] <Thejoker> a programm ? that take a picture and send it via radio ... Using the pi?
[10:54] <Thejoker> Thats great?
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13_> well no
[10:55] <Thejoker> Sorry for (?)
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13_> the program just converts your image into packets
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[10:55] <ibanezmatt13_> so you take the picture (easy), run the program (easy) read the packets (easy) send the packets (easy) done
[10:56] <ibanezmatt13_> though I struggled getting it working :P
[10:57] <Thejoker> understeand so were can i find something that send the packet?
[10:57] <Lunar_LanderU_> UpuWork: volume turned down
[10:58] <ibanezmatt13_> Thejoker: github.com/fsphil/ssdv
[10:58] <ibanezmatt13_> I think
[10:59] <ibanezmatt13_> you can git clone it. git clone https://www.github.com/fsphil/ssdv or something like that
[10:59] <mfa298> Thejoker: the key to having a good payload for a balloon is that you have to write some code. For a Beginner that can be in something like python
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[11:00] <mfa298> if you have coding experience you could possibly do more interesting stuff in C/C++ (but that's not something I'd recommend starting with)
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[11:00] <ibanezmatt13_> really am starting to wonder about wonderworks now...
[11:01] <Lunar_LanderU_> thanks UpuWork
[11:01] <enkidu> alsa sucks. this is official
[11:02] <mfa298> based on people experience in here it's possibly better than pulseaudio (which seems to have done stuff to the audio for some people to render the audio useless)
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[11:03] <enkidu> no, it sucks balls at driver level
[11:03] <enkidu> I wanted to capture sound using second card, but... it only allows me to do it using first
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[11:04] <enkidu> it produces no samples
[11:04] <mfa298> I've managed to use a secondary (usb) soundcard on linux with dl-fldigi although not all sound cards have worked that well (or not all inputs)
[11:04] <mikestir-work> enkidu: assuming you are opening the hardware directly (e.g. hw1), you may have to ask for 48 kHz sample rate
[11:04] <mfa298> one of the usb soundcards I could only use the mic input not line-in
[11:05] <enkidu> mikestir-work: I did.
[11:05] <enkidu> format, rate, channels count
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[11:06] <ibanezmatt13_> less than 30 mins from estimated launch and no sign
[11:06] <ibanezmatt13_> balloon inflated over 30 mins ago
[11:07] <Ugi_> ibanezmatt13_: what is there no sign of?
[11:07] <ibanezmatt13_> waiting for contact from the team who are launching
[11:07] <Ugi_> Ah. I see
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[11:08] <ibanezmatt13_> launch expected 12:30 so I believe and nothing yet on Habitat
[11:08] <Ugi_> I've been out of it for a bit on hols, but sounds like your launch went well
[11:08] <ibanezmatt13_> yes, NORB was fantastic. We lost it for a bit when it was right up there
[11:09] <ibanezmatt13_> but it came back :)
[11:09] <Lunar_LanderU_> UpuWork: http://i.imgur.com/PuF6TyN.png
[11:09] <Ugi_> fab'
[11:09] <Ugi_> was it ssdv or just telemetry?
[11:10] <ibanezmatt13_> wasn't flight mode issue. We lost it at about 19KM, got it for a bit at 28KM, then got it all the way down from 25KM. Burst 35.5KM. Ugi_ https://www.dropbox.com/s/2oquc4bh3oybo98/NORB.m4v
[11:10] <Bo_DK> anybody that has a BBB and can help me setting up the ethernet?
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[11:11] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU_: tahts not the signal
[11:11] <eroomde> you might have more luck in a more populated linux forum
[11:11] <Ugi_> sounds like a great flight - I'll watch the vid' when I'm not at work - we have a thin client system that doesn't like video too much
[11:11] <ibanezmatt13_> Ugi_: Just telemetry, sure :)
[11:11] <enkidu> time to compile oss4, maybe it doesnt suck
[11:12] <Ugi_> I've been hoping to have our first lauch the last two weekends but various factors prevented.
[11:12] <ibanezmatt13_> ah
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[11:12] <Ugi_> hoping for this Sunday depending on weather
[11:13] <ibanezmatt13_> nice, not sure what the weather is.
[11:13] <Ugi_> forecast for cambridge seems to changes several times a day
[11:13] <Ugi_> oscillates between sun and thrashing rain
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[11:13] <ibanezmatt13_> Brew_, talk to me man
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13_: It's the environmental condition of the atmosphere which affects the surface of a planet.
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[11:14] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13_: what is that garbage chars in the dl-fldgi window?
[11:14] <Joel_re> s/is/are
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[11:15] <ibanezmatt13_> what do you mean? It's not txing yet
[11:15] <GMT> it's just random decodes of the noise
[11:15] <Joel_re> oh ok
[11:15] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13_: what antenna, reciever are you using?
[11:16] <ibanezmatt13_> Err, I probably won't receive it up here. But I have a diamond mr77
[11:16] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm not tracking though, I never get anything unless I'm in the green
[11:16] <Joel_re> ok
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> wow
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> that MPPT does it job well
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> interesting how the internal heating is 30C
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[11:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah from the altitude gain it'd seem that the heating is of that order
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[11:19] <Lunar_LanderU_> mattbrejza: yeah I figured
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> looks like mylar isn't suitable for butane
[11:19] <GMT> B-11 crossing the French coast for the 4th time
[11:19] <ibanezmatt13_> LAUNCH
[11:19] <Lunar_LanderU_> LeoBodnar: you are once more surely the PICO balloon champion
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> wait wut
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> omfg
[11:19] <ibanezmatt13_> G0TDJ_Steve, GMT, daveake
[11:19] <Lunar_LanderU_> if I may say that :)
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> i missed b11
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> wow
[11:19] <Lunar_LanderU_> ibanezmatt13_: cool
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> mad skillz
[11:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13_: How come it's not on the Tracker Map?
[11:20] <GMT> okay, I'm leaving B-11 for a while, will try WW-PP
[11:20] <Ugi_> Has B11 really done a tour of the bay of biscay & back?
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> ah and it used the history thingy to store the points?
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13_> nobody tracking it at the site
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> Ugi_: yes
[11:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[11:20] <Ugi_> fab'
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> it stores points onboard
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> and relays them later
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13_> ok, it's txing, just not decoded yet
[11:20] <daveake> yup very neat idea
[11:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll see if I can find it in about 10 mins ibanezmatt13_ It will need some elevation to clear my local terrain
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13_> sure
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks
[11:21] <daveake> ibanezmatt13_ At this rate it will be a Wonder if it Works
[11:21] <GMT> ibanezmatt13_: got a precise TX freq?
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13_> not yet, search around the 434.05 mark I'll get back to you in one minute
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13_> GMT: 434.049
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13_> 8N2, shift 400 I think
[11:22] <daveake> .050 is probably 'cos they're mis-tuned. Bet it's closer to .075
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13_> possibly, give it a go
[11:23] <ibanezmatt13_> decode
[11:23] <GMT> okay, no trace of signal on waterfall just yet
[11:23] <daveake> I see it
[11:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> As I predicted, nothing here yet ibanezmatt13_
[11:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> WW-PP On the map now though
[11:23] <ibanezmatt13_> yep
[11:24] <Lunar_LanderU_> mattbrejza: which mil spaceing for the grid?
[11:25] <Lunar_LanderU_> joph: the guide from dave jones finally loaded :)
[11:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still receiving B-11 very clear here in Crayford
[11:25] <Lunar_LanderU_> and there I learnt of using mil
[11:25] <Lunar_LanderU_> :)
[11:25] <GMT> decoding WW-PP, just waiting for a good decode ... is on 434.074 ish
[11:25] <GMT> green decodes
[11:26] <ibanezmatt13_> excellent
[11:26] <mikestir-work> landing on the beach. live dangerously :)
[11:27] <GMT> it should head east, away from me, ... if you could just get it to head south-west I'd be happier
[11:27] <GMT> why 300 baud if it's just sending a simple message?
[11:27] <ibanezmatt13_> The Pi at 50 baud isn't very stable
[11:28] <Ugi_> not the beach - there's a good 200 yards between the predicted landing point and the sea!
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> B11 creeping up the record chart
[11:30] <LeoBodnar> <ike> B-12's battery is overcharging ;) - is it?
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[11:31] <G4MYS-2> Can I have the frequency of wonderworks PP please
[11:31] <GMT> 434.074
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: did you increase the float voltage between the two?
[11:31] <Laurenceb_> B11 seems to 4.00v and B12 4.10v
[11:32] <G4MYS-2> Many thanks I'd better put an aerial up!
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[11:33] <ike> LeoBodnar it was 3.82 and now is B-12 Battery: 4.11 V
[11:33] <ike> at 4.2 - KABOOM
[11:34] <enkidu> not really
[11:34] <HanzZ> is there specs of those balloons available online?
[11:34] <eroomde> not really ike
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[11:34] <mfa298> the pi at 50 baud isn't very stable, shame dl-fldigi can't do much slower than that as I think I could get my pi doing less than 50 happily :P (although I'm aiming for more) - but my code is very different
[11:34] <Brew__> Hi all thanks for those helping with the tracking of Wonderworks-PP
[11:34] <enkidu> kaboom would be at 4.7
[11:35] <eroomde> and the charging circuit is presumably constant voltage 4.2V
[11:35] <enkidu> plus there is pressure fuse
[11:36] <PE2G> Decoding B-11 and B-12 now: http://s23.postimg.org/92fdwxovv/Screen1049.jpg
[11:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13_: Getting green decodes intermittently, not sure why it's having problems. It's a good signal.
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13_> oh dear
[11:37] <ibanezmatt13_> it's coming through fine on the logtail G0TDJ_Steve
[11:37] <GMT> ibanezmatt13_: it's not *that* bad!
[11:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> O
[11:37] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
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[11:37] <ibanezmatt13_> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[11:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, I', sure it's an issue my end
[11:37] <ibanezmatt13_> you can see the sentence id incrementing very often
[11:38] Nick change: chrisstubbsAFK -> chrisstubbsR
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[11:39] <mfa298> G0TDJ_Steve: silly question time: did you increase the reciever filter bandwidth in dl-fldigi
[11:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's on Auto, currently 300bd
[11:41] <WillTablet> Gl with the launch ibanezmatt13_
[11:41] <mfa298> I had a feeling you have to set that option everytime (I don't think it saves the auto setting)
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13_> WillTablet: ta. It's going well so far
[11:41] <WillTablet> ¡I have school tomorrow :-( !
[11:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> G0TDJ_Steve, See http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/WonderWorks_PP__20130903/
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[11:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> I've just increased to 424 and it's a lot better. Still intermittent though mfa298a
[11:42] <GMT> G0TDJ_Steve: in the RTTY settings menu, at the bottom ... open the bandwidth filter to abt 200
[11:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[11:42] <Ugi_> current landing prediction is on the Hull to Zeebrugge ferry!
[11:42] <GMT> makes it easier for AFC to track the signal
[11:42] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: B-12 is fully charged B-11 is still charging as its batery is almost twice bigger in capacity
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> i see
[11:43] <ibanezmatt13_> I have college tomorrow WillTablet ! :)
[11:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> QSB on signal now mfa298 ibanezmatt13_
[11:44] <GMT> it comes and goes!
[11:44] <ibanezmatt13_> nice G0TDJ_Steve
[11:44] <ike> LeoBodnar Solar Panel: 0.62 what does this mean?
[11:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13_: QSB=Fading
[11:45] Nick change: LazyLeopard -> LazyL_M0LEP
[11:45] <ibanezmatt13_> what does that mean G0TDJ_Steve
[11:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13_: Signal fading up and down - QSB
[11:46] <ibanezmatt13_> ah
[11:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's a 'Ham' radio term
[11:46] <GMT> it means that the signal comes and goes ... affected by propagation
[11:46] <ibanezmatt13_> got it
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[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code
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[11:47] <ibanezmatt13_> wonder works is overtaking B11
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13_> 12rather
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13_> as expected :)
[11:47] <GMT> almost completely disappeared for me know, now it's coming back again
[11:48] <LazyL_M0LEP> That was a rather deep fade...
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13_> what causes fading?
[11:49] <mattbrejza> multipath interference is one
[11:49] <mattbrejza> dopler also
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13_> what's that caused by?
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13_> I know very little about radio :P
[11:50] <HixWork> blimey, Wonderworks is cutting fine for a recovery based on predictor
[11:50] <mattbrejza> well in a more general case you might be recieving radio signals that are direct from the tx, or have also reflected off walls
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13_> ah got it
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13_> ok
[11:51] <Ugi_> HixWork: it was predicted to land on the Zeebrugge ferry a few mins ago!
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13_> lol
[11:51] <LazyL_M0LEP> Battery power, things in the way, other things on the frequency, signal bouncing off something and arriving twice at slightly different times... and probably a hundred other things...
[11:51] <HixWork> heh
[11:51] <HixWork> top HAB points for a deck landing
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13_> oh yes
[11:52] <ibanezmatt13_> I think a beach landing would be good also
[11:52] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13_: no chase car?
[11:52] <ibanezmatt13_> not sure, one sec
[11:52] <mattbrejza> we demand entertainment
[11:52] <HixWork> not if the tide is in ibanezmatt13_ salt water not your frfiend
[11:52] <Ugi_> beach landing must get 98/100, just behind deck landing and caught by hangglider
[11:52] <ibanezmatt13_> the bit of the beach were the tide doesn't come in :)
[11:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> ww-pp drifting high
[11:53] <mattbrejza> how many points for landing in towns with rude names?
[11:54] <GMT> plenty of chances of that in Anglia
[11:56] <ibanezmatt13_> 600m to go before the 12KM test takes place :/
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[11:56] <Ugi_> prediction is based on burst at 40km - if it goes earlier it should fall short of the sea. Hopefully
[11:56] <ibanezmatt13_> that's good
[11:56] <PE2G> What''s the current dial for ww-pp pls?
[11:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.073.400
[11:57] <PE2G> Thanks.
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[11:58] <ibanezmatt13_> 100m to 12km test
[11:58] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13_ you need to calibrate your reciever 434.050 :)
[11:58] <Ugi_> is that a flight-mode issue ibanezmatt13_ ?
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13_> if it fails yes
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13_> UpuWork: Not my receiver :)
[11:59] <daveake> <daveake> .050 is probably 'cos they're mis-tuned. Bet it's closer to .075
[11:59] <ibanezmatt13_> but yeah, must be detuned
[11:59] <daveake> <smug>
[11:59] <UpuWork> :)
[11:59] <Ugi_> 40m above and still coming in
[11:59] <ibanezmatt13_> passed 12km!
[11:59] <Brew__> I'm getting it at 434.048 now
[11:59] <ibanezmatt13_> yes
[11:59] <chrisstubbsR> Any idea on descent rate?
[11:59] <chrisstubbsR> ibanezmatt13_:
[11:59] <daveake> Brew__, What receiver?
[11:59] <Brew__> Happy clearance on 12km Matt
[11:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/WonderWorks_PP__20130903/index.php?ind=1
[11:59] <ibanezmatt13_> Excellent Brew__
[11:59] <Brew__> ezcap - I know sorry and a yagi
[12:00] <daveake> Yeah that 12km limit is always a tricky one :p
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[12:00] <ibanezmatt13_> daveake: didn't bother checking it this time, just assumed flight mode was set
[12:00] <ibanezmatt13_> and it is :)
[12:00] <daveake> good
[12:00] <daveake> Brew_ You might want to calibrate it :)
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[12:01] <Brew__> Burst estimate is around 34000 and we weighed in at 1.16 it has a 36" chute on it
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13_> Brew__: Get a boat out there ready just in case
[12:01] <Ugi_> predictor is working on burst at 39,890m at the moment
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13_> a rowing boat will be fine, it's not that far off
[12:02] <Ugi_> if it bursts at 34km you shouldn't need more than waders
[12:02] <daveake> Well it'll land quicker than 5m/s so that'll help
[12:02] <Brew__> daveake calibrate what the ezcap returns?
[12:02] <daveake> A late burst though and you'll need a boat
[12:02] <Brew__> I'll pack my swimmers
[12:03] <chrisstubbsR> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=de1a0d405a5a0243674a61df9cf98b45f77f6ee9
[12:03] <F5MVO> hello everybody
[12:03] <daveake> Brew_ Calibrate the frequency; this is on 077 not 050
[12:03] <daveake> You're out by 25kHz or so
[12:03] <HixWork> whats the deal with the uBLOX AMY-6M? how comes its appeared un UPu's store?
[12:03] <chrisstubbsR> ~13km clearance, fingers crossed!
[12:03] <UpuWork> because I bought some :)
[12:03] <UpuWork> hi F5MVO
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[12:05] <mfa298> Brew__: could be an issue with having swap I/Q set (or not set) - but that might be something to check post flight - don't break stuff during flight
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[12:05] <daveake> +1
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[12:06] <Brew__> sure I'm getting good strong decodes I am tiging the dial as it were to keep it sweet but so far so good wonder if I'll be able to see it passing over head (nearly) shortly
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[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> I actually wish I lived more in the South of England :)
[12:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, You will need to send DATE & TIME in the logs!
[12:08] <Ugi_> It's going to land tangled on G3WDI's antenna at this rate - how many points for that?
[12:08] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: you can probably get lots of recommendations for Cambridge or Southampton Uni's from here
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[12:09] <HixWork> UpuWork do you have a proper datasheet for it, uBlox site says get in touch with dealer.
[12:10] <F5MVO> UpuWork : hi, do you know what solar panel B11 B12 use ?
[12:10] <HixWork> you are now a "Dealer" :)
[12:10] <ibanezmatt13> I doubt I'll get into Cambridge mfa298 taking FM :)
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[12:10] <mattbrejza> the soton offer is A*AA now too
[12:11] <UpuWork> HixServer scroll back aboutr 2 hour sposted it ealier
[12:11] <UpuWork> hang on
[12:11] <Ugi_> ibanezmatt13: making HAB payloads is a great interest to talk about at interview!
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> Ugi_: Yeah, I'm so glad I got into this!
[12:12] <ibanezmatt13> Brew__: All set with the trigger script?
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU_> I got a routing question
[12:12] <UpuWork> [10:42] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/AMY-6M-%20Hardware%20Integration%20Manual.pdf
[12:12] <UpuWork> [10:42] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/amy-6m_datasheet_gps.g6-hw-10052.pdf
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[12:12] <UpuWork> Hix ---/\
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU_> UpuWork: you said you place a via to connect devices to the ground plane on the bottom
[12:13] <HixWork> cheets UpuWork
[12:13] <mattbrejza> middle click
[12:13] <HixWork> and cheers
[12:13] <UpuWork> yes
[12:13] <UpuWork> make a ground plane on the bottom (Type POLY GND)
[12:13] <UpuWork> make one
[12:14] <Lunar_LanderU_> and only then the vias work?
[12:14] <UpuWork> then just place a via near where you need GND
[12:14] <UpuWork> and type NAME
[12:14] <UpuWork> click it
[12:14] <Ugi_> ibanezmatt13: arguably more relevant if you are donig science or engineering than Anglo-Saxon but even so.
[12:14] <UpuWork> call it GND
[12:14] <Lunar_LanderU_> ah ok
[12:14] <UpuWork> press ratsnest
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> Ugi_: Hoping to do some sort of engineering
[12:14] <Lunar_LanderU_> and then the ground plane is there
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[12:14] <Lunar_LanderU_> I was asking because it just looked like the via wouldn't really connect to the track I made
[12:14] <UpuWork> hello :)
[12:15] <UpuWork> joi.me lets have a loko
[12:15] <UpuWork> wow
[12:15] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU_: you can route other traces on the bottom, trackers arnt the most critical things
[12:15] <UpuWork> join.me lets have a look
[12:15] <Lunar_LanderU_> ok
[12:15] <Lunar_LanderU_> wait
[12:16] <LeoBodnar_> F5MVO_: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/ it's pretty much the same as B-11 and B-12
[12:16] <Lunar_LanderU_> UpuWork: first have to get the client
[12:16] <Ugi_> ibanezmatt13: what is the "trigger" that has been flase for the flight so far?
[12:16] <Ugi_> false
[12:16] <G4MYS-2> not hearing a lot from wondewrworks can I confirm freq please Andy in Southampton
[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> it'll trigger something at 30km
[12:16] <ibanezmatt13> you'll see
[12:17] <UpuWork> 434.075 ish G4MYS-2
[12:17] <Ugi_> if I see it from here (London) it's gonna have to be big!
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[12:17] <Laurenceb_> coming up to 44hours on b11
[12:18] <G4MYS-2> many thanks I just have white noise !!!!
[12:18] <WD8MNV> so B11 and B12 are really tiny payloads?
[12:18] <fsphil> you'll need to tune around a bit G4MYS-2
[12:18] <fsphil> these payloads are never at precise frequencies
[12:18] <fsphil> (well, some are)
[12:18] <G4MYS-2> OK any thoughts how far and is ID contious?
[12:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13: Getting reasonable decodes now. Still miss one or two sentences
[12:18] <chrisg7ogx> 434.073 here in Bognor strong sigs
[12:19] <fsphil> G4MYS-2: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[12:19] <chrisg7ogx> wonderworks is continuous RTTY
[12:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> 434.074.55 here. Deliberately tuned slightly low to give it room to creep up in freq.
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[12:19] <GMT> Ugi_: I'm in London and the sigs are okay
[12:19] <LazyL_M0LEP> It goes through QSB spasms from time to time, but it's mostly solid, and roaring in...
[12:19] <HixWork> UpuWork have you soldered the AMY's ? can you hot air them or reflow only?
[12:20] <UpuWork> personally no
[12:20] <G4MYS-2> finaaly the freq is announced but thank you sytill hear nowt think spare AE must have fault
[12:20] <UpuWork> its a reflow or hot air job
[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> G0TDJ_Steve: Good stuff :)
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[12:20] <mattbrejza> do they have beads of solder on the bottom?
[12:21] <fsphil> G4MYS-2: like I said, the frequency varies. we advertise the ideal frequency, it'll be +/- 10khz. you always need to tune around a bit to find it
[12:22] <fsphil> plus everyone's radio on 70cm seems to be slightly off
[12:22] <UpuWork> no mattbrejza
[12:22] <mattbrejza> oh, that makes them even worse
[12:23] <G4MYS-2> yes the radios can be off thye are never calibrated once they leave the factory! and the displays oft only show twhat it thinks not the true freq anyhow !! thinks now I have a coax or aerial fault with the portable set up Ive slung up!
[12:24] <fsphil> aah
[12:24] <fsphil> Sadly I left my radio off at home
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[12:25] <daveake> fsphil Have you suddenly developed a liking for Sauerkraut?
[12:25] <HixWork> ahh bugger - forgot it would necessitate another solder stencil. That was a ballache last time
[12:25] <UpuWork> lol
[12:25] <chrisg7ogx> g4mys have you tried 70cms repeater?
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[12:26] <fsphil> daveake: that may be the most awful thing ever eaten
[12:26] <HixWork> I'm sure they can beat it
[12:26] <chrisg7ogx> i love saurkraut! my fillings do not..
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[12:26] <HixWork> and the swedes definitely can
[12:26] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: we have a slight lack of 70cms repeaters down here at the moment, they're all offline for various reasons
[12:27] <HixWork> Surströmming - blerghhhh
[12:27] <chrisg7ogx> CC is online point towards Birdham
[12:27] <ibanezmatt13> how's it going Brew_? Armed?
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[12:28] <HixWork> "According to a Japanese study, a newly opened can of surströmming has one of the most putrid food smells in the world"
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[12:28] <Lunar_LanderU_> XD
[12:28] <chrisg7ogx> http://www.ukrepeater.net/my_repeater.php?id=491
[12:28] <chrisg7ogx> for "CC"
[12:29] <mfa298> CC is probably one of the closest operational ones although that's best part of 30miles and soton is quite low down
[12:30] <chrisg7ogx> yeah shame but not much high stuff between you both along the coast
[12:31] <LeoBodnar_> Yes WD8MNV they are 10.7grams and 8.5grams
[12:32] <mfa298> not going to work for me (wrong side of the re-inforced concrete I live in). It might be slightly better for g4mys although I know he's much lower down than i am
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[12:37] <GMT> ibanezmatt13: this 'thing' happening at 30k ... is it programmed, or manually activated?
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> programmed
[12:38] <LeoBodnar_> I want to go first! Is it a glider ibanezmatt13 ?
[12:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13: A suprise at 30k from WW?
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> No, nothing like that
[12:38] <x-f> no painting from space? :/
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> The only thing you'll see is hopefully the trigger boolean should flick to true
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> then that will trigger something down here
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> all automated
[12:39] <mikestir-work> you could have just tied it to the switch with 30km of string
[12:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> ibanezmatt13: I hope there will be some sort of YouTube video to show it all in action afterward.
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure there will, don't worry
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[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir-work, that would be a nice project. Keep hold of your balloon while it's at 30km :)
[12:41] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 So it no longer says "I'm in space"?
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[12:41] <GMT> how much 'lift' would you need for 30kms of fishing line?
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: nah, the dl client idea was too unreliable
[12:41] <daveake> Good, so no need for me to go offline when it does :p
[12:42] <daveake> Please don't tell me it tweets "I'm in Spaaace!"
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[12:42] <HixWork> "altitude 30km reached. I'm now in space!"
[12:42] <enkidu> re
[12:42] <enkidu> I got it working
[12:42] <daveake> s/30/100
[12:42] <HixWork> GMT depends on the diameter and density.
[12:43] <daveake> Bad enough correcting journos live on radio
[12:43] <enkidu> what is wonderworks frequency?
[12:43] <LeoBodnar_> GMT depends on the diameter and density. Does it?!
[12:43] <GMT> 434.075, but you won't hear it in Prague!
[12:43] <LeoBodnar_> XD
[12:43] <x-f> Gdansk*
[12:44] <enkidu> yeah, too much noise
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[12:45] <x-f> enkidu, no, it's the ground in the way that doesn't let you hear it :)
[12:45] <UpuWork> ping LeoBodnar what is the make and model of solar panel on B11/12
[12:45] <daveake> silly non-flat Earth
[12:46] <x-f> enkidu, the blue ring on the map is the radio horizon
[12:46] <LeoBodnar_> Chinese and Chinese UpuWork
[12:46] <UpuWork> haha
[12:46] <enkidu> nah, sometimes tropospheric reflections can take signal far behing horizon
[12:46] <GMT> x-f: that can't be true ... everybody knows the Earth is flat
[12:46] <UpuWork> F5MVO would like to know
[12:46] <enkidu> anyways, there is baloon in PL starting
[12:46] <LeoBodnar_> eBay is full of them, I have no idea what they are
[12:46] <HixWork> GMT brief look at 1.8Kg b.s line shows about 40oz for ~30000m but it'd probably have snapped before it got up there
[12:47] <LeoBodnar_> about 2" long
[12:47] <x-f> enkidu, SP3OSJ balloon will launch on Saturday, ~10am, it's a pico, iirc
[12:48] <Penfold> it would be rude to comment on the glitches in B11's track, right? :D I assume the loop over France is legit, though?
[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> nearly at 30km :)
[12:48] <GMT> it's legit!
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The glitches are just GPS errors
[12:49] <Penfold> GMT: wow
[12:49] <Penfold> impressive
[12:49] <UpuWork> Penfold legit
[12:49] <Penfold> nice one :D
[12:49] <UpuWork> going to try get those blips removed from the database, its basically the GPS waking up and not knowing where it is
[12:50] <mattbrejza> well gps and spacenear errors
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[12:50] <GMT> Penfold: the B-11 program records its position every 2 hours, and every 2 hours re-sends the whole flight
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[12:50] <Penfold> interesting
[12:50] <GMT> bad description by me!
[12:51] <ike> guys I can hear some strange signals every minute http://87.248.27.155:8901/ 434060.00 kHz USB can it be that this is Wonderworks-PP ?
[12:51] <ike> This is a WebSDR receiver, located in Skarnes, Norway.
[12:51] <UpuWork> probably not ike, its continous
[12:52] <mfa298> unless the reciever is inside the blue circle its unlikely you'll hear it
[12:52] <ike> there is continous signal at 434200.50 USB
[12:52] <ike> sometimes you can get 950KM, right UpuWork ?
[12:52] <Ugi_> WW turning south & then west
[12:52] <daveake> wrong frequency too far, so no
[12:52] <Ugi_> goo dfor a dry landing
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[12:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Loosing WW sigs...
[12:53] <UpuWork> no not at al
[12:53] <UpuWork> all
[12:53] <UpuWork> that was just some wierdness going on
[12:53] <mfa298> ike: remember that 434 is the ISM band, there a lots of devices which use the band for short range comms
[12:53] <UpuWork> 750km from a balloon @ 40km is about your max line of sight
[12:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Deep QSB, almost gone
[12:54] <iain_g4sgx> me too
[12:54] <ike> I wonder when LeoBodnar_ is going to make next quantium step
[12:56] <ibanezmatt13> eta 2 minutes to 30km
[12:56] <Ugi_> I want to see one of LeoBodnar_ 's 9g trackers on a 2kg latex balloon & see how high it can go!
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[12:57] <mattbrejza> tbh theres not much difference between a 9g tracker and a 25g tracker under a 2kg balloon
[12:58] <Ugi_> fair point,
[12:58] <Darkside> with those big balloons the line between float anf altitude is very slim
[12:58] <ike> mattbrejza what about 9g tracker and 14g retrorockets :)
[12:59] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, 12 mins not 2
[12:59] navrac_work (56a5b704@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.165.183.4) joined #highaltitude.
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> yes, bad calculations on my end :P
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> 11.6 mins
[13:00] <Ugi_> WW clearly enjoying the view of Bangrove woods....
[13:01] <iain_g4sgx> is there anyone chasing?
[13:01] Herman-PB0AHX (53560375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.86.3.117) joined #highaltitude.
[13:01] <Herman-PB0AHX> hello to all
[13:02] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, Brew_ is heading out after it pops iain_g4sgx
[13:02] <enkidu> ike: i got pulses every secong
[13:03] <ike> so it's someting else
[13:03] <enkidu> but few khz less
[13:03] <enkidu> 433.902
[13:03] <Herman-PB0AHX> i folowing now B12 evey time 2 lines info than puls dots
[13:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Back to greens here iain_g4sgx
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[13:05] <iain_g4sgx> yep all good. must have been those @mospherics again!
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[13:07] <ike> Altitude: 29120 m Rate: 4.9 m/s
[13:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> We're all waiting for the exciting climax to the flight!
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> 29968....
[13:10] <ike> yes, yes, yes almost there Altitude: 29951 m
[13:10] <iain_g4sgx> hang onto your hats.. gonna say TRUE..!
[13:10] <ike> 88
[13:10] <ike> Trigger: True
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> TUR1
[13:10] <daveake> s/false/true/
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep, see it
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:10] <daveake> stunning :p
[13:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Well the world didn't end ...
[13:10] <iain_g4sgx> wow
[13:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Wow!......
[13:11] Action: G0TDJ_Steve is BLWON AWAY!
[13:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> or maybe /me is BLOWN AWAY
[13:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL
[13:11] <ike> still climing
[13:11] <ike> Altitude: 30255 m Rate: 4.3 m/s
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> :d
[13:11] <ike> is it missfire?
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> :D
[13:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Nothing tweeted here either
[13:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry guys, it was the excitement
[13:12] <iain_g4sgx> :)
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[13:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> afternoon all
[13:12] <ike> going up
[13:12] <ike> steady
[13:12] <Penfold> is that it? :D
[13:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> B-12 has no chances to reach Poland :-(
[13:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> pity
[13:12] <mfa298> ike: I think all that was supposed to happen at 30km is that trigger changed to True.
[13:12] <mfa298> That's triggered something else somewhere else.
[13:13] <ike> ;(
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> Brew__: Can we tell them?
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:13] <enkidu> SP9UOB-Tom: time to release own bloons
[13:13] <ike> so they have to catch it's R pi in the sea
[13:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh please... The anticipation LOL
[13:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> enkidu: i've released some :-)
[13:13] <iain_g4sgx> Maybe its the answer to life the universe and everything?
[13:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> 42?
[13:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> iain_g4sgx: simple: 42
[13:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[13:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL
[13:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Glad there's still sone 'hikers about
[13:15] <mfa298> 42, but what's the question ?
[13:15] <iain_g4sgx> bit simpler than 42
[13:15] <HixWork> is this Brew__ 'd flight then ibanezmatt13 ?
[13:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> what is dial freq for B12?
[13:15] <HixWork> 's
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> But I've done the flight code
[13:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> BRB
[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.499.700 for B-12
[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> tones between 500Hz and 1Khz
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you all very very much for helping track Wonder
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> Let's hope we recover it
[13:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: i hav srtong QRM here (looks like wideband OFDM)
[13:18] <HixWork> hmm, weird, they are not nromally referred to as MET balloons in NOTAMs "MET BALLOON RELEASES 5NM RADIUS 520248N 0000214W (THERFIELD HEATH,
[13:18] <HixWork> ROYSTON)"
[13:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: i have strong QRM here (looks like wideband OFDM)
[13:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> That's the problem with ISM band :-(
[13:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: anyway those OFCOM regulations are really stupid
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[13:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> They are nonsense and historic in so many cases
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[13:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: im planning to run my aprs rtacker from the plane during my fridays flight to London :-)
[13:20] <PE2G> WW-PP Burst
[13:20] <ike> Altitude: 30930 m Rate: -61.4 m/s
[13:20] <ike> go get it
[13:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> OFCOM doesn't really have the manpower these days to manage much so amateur radio never gets changed significantly
[13:21] <ike> it's going to some lake
[13:21] <navrac_work> looks like WW is going to land right near me - and sadly no aerials at the moment.
[13:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: this one: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/a.jpg
[13:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> and i have to turn it off over Channell
[13:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I doubt anyone would notice!
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[13:24] <GMT> I have a a GPS tracker on my mobile phone
[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> put a length of string on it and as you go for the plane hang it around a suitable object claim it wasd picked up in flight from a balloon
[13:24] <ike> SP9UOB-Tom: how does it look at the other side?
[13:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE: i dont want to check ;-) Some guys may wair for me at the Stansted with handcuffs lol
[13:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> ike: wait, searching for the photo
[13:25] <iain_g4sgx> Tell the chaser to watch out for chickens on roundabouts.. Seriously..!
[13:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> ike: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/hab1.jpg
[13:26] <iain_g4sgx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Roundabout
[13:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/hab2.jpg
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> a fine bit of coding there for Wonderworks if I do say so myself :D
[13:27] <ike> SP9UOB-Tom 10x
[13:27] <Laurenceb_> looks like the battery is perfectly sized on B12
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks all who tracked and are still tracking! :)
[13:27] <Laurenceb_> hahaha wtf iain
[13:28] <Penfold> $triggered = 0; main_event_loop { if ($alt >= 30_000) { $triggered = 1; do_top_secret_stuff(); } }
[13:28] <GMT> chickens on roundabouts - not like this then? - http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/582787
[13:29] <Penfold> :)
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:29] <iain_g4sgx> he he suffolk version
[13:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> ike: i've found better photo: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/IMG_9935-big.JPG
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[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> SP9UOB-Tom: What antenna is on that?
[13:30] <erpayo> should be $triggered = 0; main_event_loop { if ($alt >= 30_000 && !$triggered) { $triggered = 1; do_top_secret_stuff(); } }
[13:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> ibanezmatt13: which one ? GPS ?
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[13:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> Sarrantel from UPU
[13:30] <erpayo> only once ;)
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[13:31] <Ugi_> did I miss what the triggered event was, or is it still top secret?
[13:32] <UpuWork> false became true ugi
[13:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> My tracker is two-way, which means that it can decode APRS frames
[13:32] <fsphil> the universe was inverted
[13:32] <Penfold> erpayo: unnecessary optimisation
[13:32] <fsphil> but nobody noticed
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> that's it fsphil
[13:32] <Penfold> (well, depending on whether a second test is faster than a set)
[13:32] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> so I can send remote commands via APRS mesages - even over Internet :-)
[13:33] <Penfold> and how many times you want to do the secret stuff :D
[13:33] <Penfold> man, I need more tea.
[13:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> after connecting FM receiver ofcourse
[13:33] <erpayo> if secret stuff is going to be reapeated, or secret stuff involves some kind of self destruction, yeah
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[13:34] <HixWork> I recorded my Friday evening commute a few years back, jammed phone under the visor on window and set to log https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?authuser=0&vps=2&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF8&msa=0&output=kml&msid=205941426232429721221.000477f430e4ec9da4dbd
[13:34] <Penfold> do_secret_stuff() might of course be 'broadcast location on twitter every time round loop' :D
[13:34] <Ugi_> I often feel that I have the universe on the wrong way round. This may explain it.
[13:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway, now on my desk is running 1 Watt HF (10.151 MHz LSB) APRS tracker: http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SP9UOB-10
[13:35] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 why is $ALT 30_000? and not 30000
[13:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> please take look at the Igate distance :-) http://www.db0anf.de/app/aprs/stations/digiusage-SP9UOB-10
[13:35] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: thats your local 30m aprs frequency?
[13:35] <Ugi_> SP9UOB-Tom: Handy if you desk ever makes a break for freedom
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: huh?
[13:35] <Darkside> right on the edge of the 30m band
[13:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> Darkside: this is global 30m APRS frequency i think
[13:35] <Darkside> interesting
[13:35] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: ahh
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[13:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> Ugi_: LOL :-)
[13:36] <HixWork> do secret stuff was triggered at 30_000
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> at 30000
[13:36] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: yep sure is
[13:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> Ugi_: im planning long-distance flight over Asia
[13:36] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: looks like you could save some weight with smaller panel
[13:36] <daveake> Not that secret http://blog.paddypower.com/2013/08/20/your-chance-to-win-1m-with-a-bet-from-space-with-paddy-power/
[13:36] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: if you're planning long distance stuff, why not use 20m APRS?
[13:36] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: should get a bit further, 
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: ! :D
[13:36] <Darkside> or aren't there as many 20m ground stations
[13:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> Darkside: this is early test by now. Also i have WSPR ready for it
[13:37] <Darkside> bah
[13:37] <Darkside> WSPR sucks :P
[13:37] <Darkside> use a mode you can push data through :P
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[13:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> Darkside: 10 mW to USA :-)
[13:37] <iain_g4sgx> Used RMS Express in Bhutan, was hard finding asian nodes
[13:37] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: yeah but you cant push much through it
[13:37] <Darkside> only a very coarse locator
[13:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> Darkside: 6 digit locator is enough over Asia - remember there is no civilisation ;-)
[13:38] <Darkside> heh
[13:38] <Darkside> true
[13:38] <Darkside> so whats the transmitteR?
[13:38] <Darkside> DDS?
[13:38] <Darkside> Class D/E?
[13:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> AD9851 and small PA
[13:38] <Darkside> ahh
[13:38] <Darkside> you shoudl square the output of the AD9851 and class D/E it :-)
[13:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> push-pull at the moment - i want to go wideband, and trap antenna
[13:39] <Darkside> will get you heaps better efficiency
[13:39] <Darkside> ahh
[13:39] <Darkside> righto
[13:39] <John_____> Hi, I'm new to HAB balloon & a college student..I want to use normal high-altitude balloon. 1) However, I wish to capture maximum duration video of beyond Earth surface (horizon) & black space. In general approx how many minutes is it possible to capture this view before balloon bursts? (Only beyond Earth surface+black space). 2) Which weather, temperature, timing is most suitable to capture the best view of Earth..Any ti
[13:39] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: yeah, Class E wont give tou the bandwidth, Class D will though
[13:39] <LazyL_M0LEP> Hmmm... Getting some very aggressive QRM here. What else uses 434.075? Sounds like broadband data bursts...
[13:39] <Darkside> LazyL_M0LEP: HEAPS of stuff uses 075
[13:39] <Darkside> we generally avoid it
[13:39] <Darkside> John_____: you can usually get a good hour of black sky
[13:40] <GMT> I've lost WW-PP, going back to try again with B-11
[13:40] <Darkside> John_____: and you want a clear day. cloud cover can cause lots of glate in the cameras
[13:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, its time to visit my dentist... :-(
[13:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> CU all
[13:40] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: commiserations
[13:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> Darkside: :-)
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[13:41] <HixWork> John_____ you can get raw telemetry data here to compare different flights http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[13:42] <Ugi_> ww-PP still coming down like a stone - -9.7m/s!
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> well it weights 1.1KG
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> 36"" shute
[13:44] <mfa298> at least that speed ensures it's not in the sea
[13:44] <LazyL_M0LEP> It may be in pieces, but it won't be in the sea...
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> yes, better in pieces really
[13:45] <daveake> <daveake> Well it'll land quicker than 5m/s so that'll help
[13:45] <daveake> <smug>
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[13:45] <mfa298> there's a nice pub not far from there (I assume it's still nice - been a few years since I was that way)
[13:46] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[13:46] <ike> so WW will fall on Clintergate Rd?
[13:46] <John_____> @ <Darkside> so a normal balloon will be able to give atleast 1 hour of black sky?.. ie the view beyondEarth surface(horizon)..?..
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> at a fair speed. Hope
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> no one gets hit
[13:47] <Darkside> John_____: above about 20km the sky is pretty darn black
[13:47] <mfa298> probably most likely to hit a pheasant around there
[13:47] <HixWork> 1.1Kg, whats on it
[13:47] <Darkside> and depending on your launch you can stay above 20km for over an hour
[13:47] <HixWork> or a very expensive NewHolland :)
[13:48] <John_____> @ <Darkside> Do u have any blog/website dedicated to HAB launches?..
[13:48] <Ugi_> At the moment I have my payload set to switch to pedestrian mode (mode 3) after landing - anyone any views on whether I should make the switch earlier (say when we go below 12k) or not at all?
[13:48] <Darkside> John_____: projcthorus.org
[13:48] <mfa298> hopefully a chase vehicle is reasonably close
[13:48] <Darkside> argh
[13:48] <Darkside> projecthorus.org *
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Pi, Pi Cam, 2 relays, stepper motors, LEDs, Pi Face, NTX2, Ublox max 6 etc
[13:48] <Darkside> hasn't been updated in a while
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> go pro*
[13:49] <ike> what are 2 relays for?
[13:49] <Ugi_> what are the motors and relays for?
[13:49] <erpayo> Bumble Barn under attack :)
[13:50] <LazyL_M0LEP> Lost telemetry here.
[13:50] Nick change: LazyL_M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[13:50] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 is it s stabilised GoPro?
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> not sure HixWork
[13:51] <HixWork> ok
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[13:52] <erpayo> nice decceleration
[13:52] <Ugi_> I reckon it's on the ground
[13:52] <HixWork> or in the ground :)
[13:52] <ike> 500m and 2 min
[13:52] <mfa298> 520m in norfolk, probably 500m above ground at least
[13:52] <UpuWork> ping LeoBodnar refresh spacenear.us, until it retransmits
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[13:53] <HixWork> yeah, just checked alt, could even go -ve
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> should have landed now I think
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> depending on elevation
[13:53] <HixWork> as some of it has sunk no?
[13:53] <mfa298> at least we should get decodes nice and low
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[13:53] <mfa298> the moles create the highest hills around there :p
[13:53] <HixWork> heh
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[13:54] <HixWork> Mountaineering mecca
[13:54] <Ugi_> impressive tracking down to 175m!
[13:54] <ike> the Eagle has landed
[13:54] <erpayo> have anyone ever tried two stage parachutes?
[13:54] <UpuWork> rule no1 of HAB : keep it simple
[13:54] <navrac_work> sadly i didnt have time to get the aerial up properly - also im only 5mASL
[13:54] <ike> who is the lucky winner of the payload
[13:55] <navrac_work> depends if the wife has taken the car out or not!
[13:55] <John_____> @<Darkside> Any tips to achieve & capture maximum time period of beyond Earth surface view ?
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[13:55] <Tramvai> Hey
[13:55] <iain_g4sgx> So, 434.500 for both B11 &12..
[13:55] <homewld> my last decode
[13:55] <homewld> üø,$Wondupworks-PP,13:53:11,39#f,52.4qf294705,9,True,205*B7FF
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: how much do the solar panels wiegh?
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> so can we say it's on the ground at that location?
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> near enough that location?
[13:56] <Laurenceb_> are they thin film?
[13:56] <HixWork> NAVRAC had it down to 175m on spacenear, so it'll be pretty near there
[13:56] <mfa298> it's going to have landed near there.
[13:57] <fsphil> near enough to get a signal
[13:57] <mfa298> but norfolk is pretty flat and most of it is very close to sea level
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[13:57] <fsphil> but do leave asap
[13:57] <fsphil> you want to be there before the batteries run out
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[13:57] <HixWork> is Brew_ off chasing already?
[13:58] <mfa298> driving around that area is really weird in places. there's no indication of where the road goes and you corners can appear quite suddenly
[13:58] <ibanezmatt13> ok, so it's probably in the field somehwere that habitat says its in?
[13:59] <HixWork> mfa298 especially in fog :/
[13:59] <Ugi_> seems very likely ibanezmatt13
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> fantastic!
[13:59] <HixWork> 90° right with no prior warning. and a drain on the left
[13:59] <mfa298> if they get close they should be able to hear it.
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm just telling him where to go
[13:59] <mfa298> and from there should have a more precise location
[13:59] <fsphil> ah
[14:00] <fsphil> and they have a radio?
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> told him to head to clintergate road and stop near the farmers house on the left
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> yes fsphil
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> not sure if it's a yagi though :/
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> might be a case of wading through a fully grown wet wheat field, like I did :P
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> b11 up to 44hours
[14:00] <HixWork> still get a position, which helps
[14:00] <mfa298> simple instructions would be head Bury st edmunds and then stay on the A143 until they're past Diss
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, they're nearly at hardwick road
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> then they're taking a right onto clintergate
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> should be ok
[14:01] <mfa298> they should be able to hear it from there easily
[14:01] <HixWork> tell em to stop at the barn, before they pass it
[14:02] <HixWork> 5th field on their right
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[14:05] <navrac_work> weird - im still getting wonderworks telemetry at 10m from somewhere
[14:05] <HixWork> oh wow, thats pretty damn good
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[14:06] <UpuWork> which means its probably in a tree navrac_work :/
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[14:08] <Ugi_> navrac_work: are you getting data good enough to be worth posting? Someone can probably update the map if so.
[14:09] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/maps/MXeM4 they don't look too bad there
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[14:09] <navrac_work> no - its gone again - it looks like it was going back east about 100yards from the last good position
[14:10] <navrac_work> trouble is it was more noise than signal and took a lot of guesswork to average out the packets
[14:10] <LeoBodnar_> Laurenceb_: 0.9g both of them together
[14:10] <Laurenceb_> ah so not much in it
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[14:11] <Lunar_LanderU> hello again
[14:11] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: just to verify, GND polygon under the Ublox, but not under the Antenna?
[14:11] <Laurenceb_> b11 battery seems to be taking a long time to rechange
[14:11] <mfa298> just have to hope the crops have been harvested. Finding the payload amongst crops could be interesting
[14:11] <UpuWork> get the data sheet for the JTI antenna
[14:11] <UpuWork> hang on
[14:11] <UpuWork> its cold Laurenceb
[14:12] <UpuWork> recharge rate will be very compromised
[14:12] <Lunar_LanderU> getting datasheet
[14:12] <LeoBodnar_> Not really. B-10 flew with 1.5 solar panels (I broke a half off one in blustery wind.) Nice to have some excess power if needed.
[14:12] <UpuWork> Lunar_LanderU https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/JTI_Antenna-1575AT43A40_2006-09.pdf
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> they are solid silicone ones?
[14:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> WW_PP Object Movie and KMZ file etc. http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/WonderWorks_PP__20130903/
[14:12] <UpuWork> see page 2
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[14:13] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: where are the panels from?
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> so it should be made like this
[14:13] <LeoBodnar_> China Laurenceb_
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> heh
[14:14] <LeoBodnar_> Monocrystalline
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> but where did you source them?
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> oh - explains the performance
[14:14] <LeoBodnar_> eBay
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
[14:14] <LeoBodnar_> B-11 is rising nicely. Should be at 4.07V by sunset
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: oh no
[14:15] <Lunar_LanderU> there is no space to make the track 19 mm long
[14:15] <Tramvai> Is there a sample code for TinyGPS to use with uBlox?
[14:15] <Lunar_LanderU> :(
[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> they're on clintergate rd
[14:16] <HixWork> UpuWork does the trace need to be 19mm if coming straight from th ublox? Thought that was if it was a remote feed to the ant
[14:16] <HixWork> Tramvai take my advice and steer clear of TinyGPS. its massive and pretty crap
[14:17] <Tramvai> What would I use then?
[14:17] <Ugi_> Tramvai: there is a special version of tiny GPS that decodes the ublox data string. I'll see if I can find where I got it from.
[14:17] <UpuWork> HixServer no just a make sure there is that 1mm gap from ground plane
[14:17] <Ugi_> Although HixWork is right, it's enormous
[14:18] <HixWork> Lunar_LanderU ^^
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, thanks :)
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[14:18] <Tramvai> Are there simple alternatives then? I don't really want to reinvent the wheel or just code a lot from scratch
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[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> Wonderworks-PP recovered in harvested field :)
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> woo!
[14:19] <Ugi_> This whole page is very useful Tramvai but right at the end is a link to TinyGPS for ublox
[14:19] <Ugi_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[14:20] <Ugi_> ibanezmatt13: Yay!
[14:20] <ibanezmatt13> yep! :D
[14:21] <Ugi_> So was it really a bet placed with PP at 30Km?
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: teleported to germany?
[14:22] <LeoBodnar_> Yarp
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> ibanezmatt13: cool!
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe another stupid question
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> yes Ugi_
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> a 50 ohm track is 55 mil
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> someone won £1 mil
[14:23] <Ugi_> hope you get a cut
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> that doesn't fit with the ublox pins
[14:23] <Ugi_> what's your %?
[14:23] <LeoBodnar_> Congrats if bWon == True ! XD
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> it's decent Ugi_ put it that way :)
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> can I have a 10 mil track merging into a 55 mil track?
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[14:23] <Piet0r> Hi
[14:23] <Tramvai> Ugi_: I already had a modified TinyGPS library: https://github.com/KevWal/TinyGPS
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[14:24] <Piet0r> I see LeoBodnar has some nice floaters up in the air :)
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[14:26] <Ugi_> Tramvai: OK, so I think in the Examples are the various routines that you need to get something meaningful out of TinyGPS.
[14:27] <Ugi_> IIRC you feed it the GPS string as it comes in
[14:27] <UpuWork> TinyGPS can also muck up radio timing
[14:27] <Ugi_> and it returns various parameters
[14:27] <ike> there was link but I lost it :( Can I send BCD data to http://spacenear.us/tracker/?
[14:28] <ike> there was link how to send data
[14:28] <ike> and CRC and stuff
[14:28] <ike> I want to send BDC and xor CRC8
[14:28] <ike> can I do that?
[14:28] <mattbrejza> eww xor crc
[14:28] <mattbrejza> dont do that
[14:29] <LeoBodnar_> What was the climax of Wonderwork flight? I have missed it :)
[14:29] <mattbrejza> the 16bit ccitt checksum isnt that much more work
[14:29] <ike> well maybe then 16bit xor
[14:29] <ike> it's good enough for me
[14:30] <mattbrejza> 16bit xor is a bit pointless on 8 bit symbols
[14:30] <daveake> 8 bits pointless
[14:30] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/ICqr4v by the look of it LeoBodnar
[14:30] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, just calibrated them
[14:30] <mikestir-work> it's also pretty useless as a check value
[14:30] <ike> 4 bit symbols - BCD remember
[14:30] <eroomde> against the 6.5 digit multimeter, don't have an 8.5 digit multimeter as recommended by the cal proceedure!
[14:31] <HixWork> though I can't see how they can Claim the Guinness Record as they hadn't passed the Kármán line
[14:31] <LeoBodnar_> Do you think it's really going to happen?! :)
[14:31] <eroomde> 9.999V = 9.999V, which is quite nice
[14:31] <eroomde> haven't done current cal just yet though
[14:32] <LeoBodnar_> eroomde: ! I guess you are happy
[14:32] <mattbrejza> i hate to think how bad my one is
[14:32] <eroomde> i am happy
[14:32] <eroomde> good purchase
[14:32] <eroomde> time to leave some nice feedback
[14:33] <eroomde> i now have a pair of awesome PSUs
[14:33] <LeoBodnar_> I was right to force you
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Are these still for sale?
[14:33] <ike> LeoBodnar are you LeoB_Remote ?
[14:33] Action: SpeedEvil is being tempted.
[14:33] <eroomde> i was testing out the overvoltage protection, i see the fan really does go michael bay when it wants to
[14:33] <eroomde> SpeedEvil, think so
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[14:35] <eroomde> SpeedEvil, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-6632B-Bench-DC-Power-Supply-0-20VOLT-5-AMP-Programmable-/350858191596?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item51b0c722ec
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[14:35] <eroomde> mine did need a calibration though
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> How badly?
[14:36] <eroomde> i have access to a calibrated agilent 34401A on the bench
[14:36] <eroomde> oh fairly badly
[14:36] <LeoBodnar_> yes ike
[14:36] <Tramvai> HixWork: What's the alternative to TinyGPS?
[14:36] <eroomde> like what it thought was 10V was actually 10.23V
[14:36] <eroomde> but the cal is a thing you can do through the front panel
[14:36] <eroomde> it sets a V, you enter the actual v, it sets another, you re-enter it etc
[14:36] <eroomde> and it does it automatically
[14:36] <eroomde> now it's pot on
[14:36] <eroomde> spot*
[14:38] <eroomde> if you have nowt, he is selling keithly 6.5 digit multimeters too
[14:38] <eroomde> probably worth getting one sent off for a cal
[14:38] <eroomde> and tht can be your lab standard with which to do everything else
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: is that a globaltuners station?
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> your remote station
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[14:39] <mattbrejza> Tramvai: writing it yorself (which isnt that much work)
[14:39] <fsphil> parsing gps strings is an interesting exercise
[14:39] <Tramvai> That's not really efficient, is it?
[14:39] <mattbrejza> tinygps isnt very efficent
[14:39] <fsphil> or very tiny
[14:40] <mattbrejza> mainly due to it converting strings to floats
[14:40] <mattbrejza> which you dont need to do
[14:40] <mattbrejza> just keep as strings
[14:40] <eroomde> Tramvai, what do you mean, not efficient?
[14:40] <mattbrejza> and copy into the output buffer
[14:40] <Tramvai> I have no idea how to code stuff like this
[14:41] <mattbrejza> but you know how to do some coding?
[14:41] <mattbrejza> thats all you need
[14:41] <Tramvai> I just thought TinyGPS would just take the GPS information and turn it into readable variables
[14:41] <fsphil> that's exactly that it does. but take a look at its code sometime
[14:42] <fsphil> it's not bad, just a bit big
[14:43] <mattbrejza> and you said you wanted an alternative :)
[14:43] <Babs__> BitbigGPS (c) fsphil
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[14:43] <fsphil> NeedsAnATMEGA644P-GPS
[14:44] <Babs__> Is the dash significant fsphil?
[14:44] <fsphil> make the name bigger
[14:44] <fsphil> very important
[14:44] <HixWork> unneccesary padding ftw
[14:44] <LeoBodnar_> yes Laurenceb_
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[14:45] <Willdude123> I just installed a plugin for chrome that closes tabs that I don't use. It's amazing
[14:45] <LeoBodnar_> I don't really need that level of accuracy eroomde but scientist in me has just protested to what I said
[14:45] <Willdude123> I used to have like 300 tabs open, now I have 4. Productivity ftw!
[14:45] <fsphil> chrome needs a plugin to close tabs?
[14:46] <mfa298> I've found ctrl+W works quite well for closing tabs
[14:46] <mattbrejza> the 'x' is too much effort for some
[14:46] <mfa298> works on chrome and FF
[14:46] <mfa298> probably IE as well but I've never had enough tabs in IE to try it out
[14:46] <Babs__> the power button is an excellent shortcut to closing all tabs simultaneously.
[14:47] <Babs__> on a more serious note, does anyone have a better free solution to creating a .dxf file on a budget to creating in sketchup and converting the file through a plugin - all of the .dxf editors that I have seen give like 4 minutes of free access before they want to charge me gazillions
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: On a related matter - why the hell are spectrum analysers so expensive.
[14:48] <tweetBot> @Brewj: Success payload retrieved with @piersshepperd and @NORB_HAB thanks to all associated with #UKHAS http://t.co/eFMbLRChMe
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[14:48] <Babs__> i'd like to get some machined carbon fibre doobries for Stabilotron II
[14:48] <chrisstubbs> Oooh recovered, thats good news!
[14:48] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sbhgy6jwnddk2md/DSC_5093.jpg successful retrieval
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: i think he's run out of the keithley ones
[14:49] <chrisstubbs> nice and easy :)
[14:49] <eroomde> in the lasdt few minutes?
[14:50] <UpuWork> congrats Brew
[14:50] <Brew_> retrieved yes in the last 15
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Searching keithly for that seller shows no results for me
[14:50] <ike> we want youtube video
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[14:50] <Ugi_> what is the stuff sticking out of the box ibanezmatt13 ?
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> err
[14:51] Action: HixWork may be able to help Babs__ inhis dxf quest
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> ask Brew :)
[14:51] <chrisstubbs> mr autocad to the rescue
[14:51] <Ugi_> ok: Brew_ what's the stuff sticking out of the box?
[14:51] <eroomde> SpeedEvil, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keithley-2015THD-6-5-digit-bench-DMM-multimeter-with-harmonic-analysis-/350850329409?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item51b04f2b41
[14:51] <HixWork> chrisstubbs wash yo mouth out fool ;p
[14:51] <eroomde> 4 avail / 5 sold
[14:51] <Babs__> go on HixWork. There is first dibs on Saturday cake for you if you come through.
[14:52] <Brew_> Ugi it's the practicle bits we had a light box and a winch I'll do more photos later
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Oops - wrong seller
[14:54] <Ugi_> Brew_: sounds interesting.
[14:55] <Brew_> yeah we had a GoPro on there too I'll upload some of that footage too
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Alas - the power supply has basically blown my toys biudget - even the dented one i got.
[14:55] <Brew_> right heading for home and some celebratory chocolate
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> good idea, send me some virtual lindor Brew_ !
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[14:55] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: thanks for the link
[14:56] <eroomde> np. it's a fairly serious investment but equally it's a lovely bit of kit
[14:56] <eroomde> obviously not worth getting if you're not gonna cal it, as you'll loose most of the digits off the end
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> Well - my current best DMM is from Lidl.
[14:57] <LeoBodnar_> My local HAM club does not even have DMM
[14:57] <Tramvai> How to fix the issues with the Arduino program not responding?
[14:58] <Tramvai> It just hangs and doesn't update. I understand it runs in the background fine, but the visibile part just doesn't update.
[14:58] <eroomde> Tramvai, you're going to have to provide much more detail than that if you want people to be able to help you answer
[14:58] <Tramvai> I thought it's a common problem.
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[14:59] <UpuWork> Sadly McClane is in southern France on vacation
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[15:01] <Babs__> McLane was probably knackered from sorting out the hostage situation at Nakatomi Plaza
[15:01] <UpuWork> see what you did there
[15:02] <Babs__> :-)
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[15:03] <Laurenceb_> uli@nakatomi.com
[15:03] <HixWork> how in jaysus do you remember a name of a plaza from a film?
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[15:03] <Laurenceb_> cuz everyone has seen die hard
[15:04] <HixWork> but to remember Nakatomi Plaza
[15:04] <HixWork> i mean to quote it not identify the reference
[15:05] <Ugi_> Tramvai: some sort of context would be helpful. Is it TinyGPS causing the issue? what have you done since it was last working? Is there a risk that you are out of SRAM? (tinyGPS is pretty greedy)
[15:06] <Tramvai> It's the IDE that's acting up, no matter the code.
[15:06] <enkidu> it could be possible to integrate tinygps directly into uBLOX
[15:06] <enkidu> uBLOX holds an ARM processor
[15:06] <chrisstubbs> Tramvai, does it hang when you open the tools meny?
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[15:06] <chrisstubbs> and mouseover the COM port menu
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[15:06] <chrisstubbs> you may need to update a dll
[15:07] <Darkside> enkidu: no it wouldnt be
[15:07] <Darkside> well, theoretically yes
[15:07] <Darkside> but practically, no
[15:07] <HixWork> wtf would you put notsotinyatallGPS in a uBlox
[15:07] <HixWork> chrisstubbs intel on the dll?
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9kKLjefeHM&feature=youtu.be
[15:08] <mattbrejza> so put tinygps into the ublox, then use another string protocol to send back tinygps data to the avr
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[15:08] <mattbrejza> then on the avr have another parser
[15:08] <Tramvai> I can cause the hang when I open the serial port monitor and change the baud rate for example
[15:08] <mattbrejza> and repeat
[15:08] <Tramvai> That's when it freezes 100%
[15:08] <enkidu> three parsers dont have sense for sure
[15:08] <LeoBodnar_> redundancy?
[15:09] <chrisstubbs> HixWork the rxtx drivers were very slow on my pc for some reason
[15:09] <mattbrejza> i guess you could program the ublkox to output 50baud rtty strings
[15:10] <HixWork> chrisstubbs think that is the problem Tramvai has, I've had it hand when changing boards etc
[15:10] <mfa298> ublox with dedicated extensions to get data out in a custom format? I thought that already existed :P
[15:10] <chrisstubbs> cant find the page with the solution i used...
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[15:11] <chrisstubbs> http://www.johngineer.com/blog/?p=97
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> there we go
[15:12] <HixWork> skills dude
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[15:15] <Tramvai> Thanks!
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[15:15] <Tramvai> I hope it still works, after 4 years.
[15:15] Action: chrisstubbs had a good find at the scrap pile at work today!
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/1cCbYFo
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> three guesses what I want to do with that (reading teh url is cheating)
[15:15] <edmoore> LeoBodnar, prodigious quantity of dust on the inside however
[15:16] <edmoore> i'll take it apart and give it a good cleanup
[15:16] <HixWork> copper pile-cushion chrisstubbs ?
[15:16] <chrisstubbs> hahah
[15:17] <enkidu> I wonder, what will happpen faster: bloon crash or battery discharge
[15:19] <Ugi_> chrisstubbs: that looks suspiciously like a tesla coil to me.
[15:20] <UpuWork> PE2G giving scant regard to the radio horizon again :)
[15:22] <Piet0r> Yes he has quite a nice set up
[15:22] <chrisstubbs> ;)
[15:22] <chrisstubbs> ping fsphil
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[15:23] <fsphil> pongish chrisstubbs
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> awh man the price rocketed :( Was looking at a canon with GPS
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> 5 mins left
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> would run CHDK too
[15:23] <fsphil> ack
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> im watching one with a smashed screen
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> we wont need it...
[15:24] <fsphil> true
[15:24] <Piet0r> What is CHDK?
[15:24] <enkidu> are there any B-12 photos before start?
[15:24] <edmoore> adamgreig, i've found quite an interesting blog on electronics
[15:24] <chrisstubbs> Piet0r, canon hackers development kit
[15:24] <edmoore> he writes quite amusingly and informatively on his projects
[15:24] <chrisstubbs> allows you to run custom code on the camera
[15:24] <edmoore> an example opening paragraph: "Analog is sexy, we all agree, right? Embedded systems on the other hand, are full of lots of unglamorous problems. Filesystems, say. Inherently un-sexy."
[15:25] <fsphil> filesystems are quite interesting
[15:25] <arko> lol
[15:25] <arko> linky?
[15:25] <fsphil> you can tell I don't do much electronics :)
[15:25] <adamgreig> edmoore: excellent
[15:25] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[15:25] <adamgreig> I think I agree with him already
[15:25] <edmoore> http://blog.narrat1ve.com/
[15:26] <edmoore> came across in the context of googling something about the cla routine for the 6632b's i just bought
[15:26] <edmoore> cal*
[15:26] <arko> oh this dude!
[15:27] <Babs__> arko! are you in the UK yet?
[15:27] <arko> tomorrow
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[15:27] <Babs__> where an English muffin really IS an English muffin
[15:27] <Babs__> cool - have a good trip.
[15:27] <fsphil> made in china
[15:27] <arko> lol
[15:28] <arko> soon enough :)
[15:28] <edmoore> "Woes 4:
[15:28] <edmoore> The microSD card. I came up with new swears for these things:"
[15:28] <edmoore> i feel a have a lot in common with this guy
[15:28] <PE2G> UpuWork: Not below the horizon yet :) B-12 ist still at 0 deg and B-11 at +0.9 deg according to dl-fldigi
[15:28] <edmoore> although he seems more proficient at electronics
[15:29] <arko> "Encouraged, we got drunk, fixed the monitor, Andrew wrote a rasterizer and we put the patron saint of Bed Stuy on the screen. It sucked less:"
[15:29] <Babs__> remember to get a window seat. the normal way into heathrow goes straight down the thames east to west, you do the whole boring sightseeing thing in a little under 30 seconds.
[15:29] <arko> hahaha
[15:29] <arko> i got a window seat both ways!
[15:29] <Babs__> sweet
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[15:29] <HixWork> Arko, You'll probably route over me on approach.
[15:30] <arko> edmoore: that vector "video card" is wicked awesome
[15:30] <edmoore> yep
[15:30] <arko> HixWork: track me!
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[15:30] <edmoore> you'll go past me too
[15:30] <arko> \o/
[15:30] <arko> just type in what you think my coordinates are into spacenear
[15:30] <edmoore> oh actually
[15:30] <edmoore> i have been on this blog before
[15:30] <edmoore> a long long time ago
[15:31] <Babs__> in a galaxy far far away?
[15:31] <arko> i think his vector game was on hackaday a while back
[15:31] <arko> last i remember being on this blog
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[15:32] <WillDWork> don't forget the cowboy hat
[15:32] <arko> what have you guys done to me... someone just asked me what my plans are for the day, and i responded "to buy trousers"
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> whenever ive gone into heathrow its been all murky
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> nothing to see accept the concord museum thing
[15:32] <edmoore> we've corrected you arko
[15:32] <arko> WillDWork: crap i forgot
[15:32] <arko> edmoore: done good
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> when are you flying arko?
[15:33] <arko> tomorrow afternoon
[15:33] <arko> a little more than 24 hours from now
[15:34] <arko> oh crap i need to buy a plug converter too
[15:34] <UpuWork> yeah your hair dryer will run at super speed in the UK
[15:35] <arko> i just stick my head out the window
[15:35] <arko> ace ventura style
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[15:36] <mattbrejza> my mum has done that before UpuWork
[15:36] <mattbrejza> we were on a boat and it was a mix of 110V and 230V
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[15:42] <smrtz> Hey adamgreig, you're the one who helped me yesterday right?
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[15:42] <adamgreig> "helped" :P
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[15:42] <adamgreig> but yes
[15:42] <smrtz> Haha, great.
[15:42] <edmoore> were you condescending but correct?
[15:42] <edmoore> that's my favourite
[15:42] <edmoore> and why no one asks me for help
[15:42] <smrtz> I'm thinking of either getting a blimp, or this: http://www.southernballoonworks.com/balloons/kingfisher-aerostat-wind-capable.html
[15:42] <PA1SDB> $$B-11517,153431,50.531,4.5568,91k,7,4,0.69*9922t$B-11,1N18,153511,50.53,4.N646,9139,8,7,4,0.66*a86tar~ Was decoded here at JO33KH
[15:43] <smrtz> and doing a tethered aerostat, thoughts?
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[15:43] <LeoBodnar_> edmoore: cleaned one of mine and left another as is. Are you going to change the fan for something quieter? Like AC powered maybe.
[15:43] <edmoore> possibly yes
[15:43] <edmoore> not decided
[15:43] <edmoore> might wait for it to become annoying
[15:43] <smrtz> adamgreig: specifically, the 20foot blimp here: http://www.southernballoonworks.com/blimps/camera-blimps-aerostats.html
[15:45] <chrisstubbs> Upu needs to get a blimp with "habsupplies" on the side
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[15:45] <chrisstubbs> to mark the location of the conference
[15:46] <LeoBodnar_> you get complacent very quickly. I don't pay attention to their hum already. Nice comforting warm 50Hz hum. Not DCDC whining rubbish.
[15:47] <edmoore> oh i actually can probably help with blimp advice, tethered or otherwise
[15:47] <Steve_2e0vet> hey chrisstubbs
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[15:47] <smrtz> Also, I'm trying to compare the uBlocs NEO-6, and the LEA-6, I don't need the low power draw from the NEO-6, since this will be tethered, but I just can't justify spending that much more on the LEA-6. What are some of it's benefits?
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[15:48] <smrtz> edmoore: great, what experience do you have?
[15:48] <edmoore> smrtz, i built a robotic blimp to study glacial areas a few years ago as part of a small research grounp
[15:48] <smrtz> edmoore: Wow, that's cool. Do you have a webpage I can check out?
[15:48] <edmoore> i mostly built the blimp and the control, and the electronics pod. i made a small contribution to the computer vision code (it was doing live 3d mapping) but that was mostly the work of the other 3
[15:48] <adamgreig> yea edmoore is the person to ask for condescending advice on why you should never tether balloons and what blimp to get
[15:48] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29dn0Mzspk
[15:49] <adamgreig> he has more extensive experience in the nightmares of tethering HABs than probably anyone else on here :P
[15:49] <edmoore> and i also now work on nice aerodynamic tethered aerostats that are stable and that I wish i'd known about long ago
[15:49] <smrtz> adamgreig: ahh, ok. Thanks for the tip.
[15:49] <smrtz> edmoore: how did you do the mapping?
[15:50] <smrtz> edmoore: where do you live?
[15:50] <edmoore> gps + intertial package on the blimp, and a machine vision camera
[15:50] <edmoore> thus the blimp knew where it was pointing, and could do 3d mapping
[15:50] <edmoore> instead of using stero vision it just had the one camera but moved
[15:50] <edmoore> which gets you the same thing
[15:50] <Babs__> the video when the speed controller shut down the motor is better
[15:50] <edmoore> i live in oxford
[15:51] <Babs__> "Neil, run"
[15:51] <smrtz> Hmm. do you have any more documentation I can check out?
[15:51] <edmoore> nope
[15:51] <smrtz> Also, I'm working with the guy behind this: http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090814/600_aerostat_balloon_090814.jpg
[15:51] <edmoore> it was for academia
[15:51] <smrtz> Fair enough.
[15:51] <edmoore> we don't do documentation, we just try and publish papers that no one will ever read
[15:51] <smrtz> It seems really cool.
[15:51] <smrtz> did you get them published?
[15:52] <edmoore> there were a couple.
[15:52] <edmoore> there's one still pending, that will win me (for some value of 'win') an erdos number of 4
[15:52] <edmoore> thus i quite want to publish it
[15:52] <edmoore> but i am living breathing documentation if you want to ask me stuff
[15:52] <smrtz> Ahh, can you send me the published ones? Or are they not freely available?
[15:53] <edmoore> and cos i'm interested in it i wont be condescending
[15:53] <edmoore> the published stuff was on computer vision
[15:53] <smrtz> edmoore: Haha, even better!
[15:53] <edmoore> nothing to do with blimps
[15:53] <edmoore> it was really just a carrier to let us get the vision electronics pod up in the air
[15:53] <edmoore> i made a little controller to get it to raster over an area
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[15:53] <smrtz> So, where did you get the envelope? And do you have any pictures of the electronics pod mounted to the blimp?
[15:53] <edmoore> that mostly worked but didn't enjoy turning in windy onditions
[15:54] <edmoore> the envelope is from minizepp
[15:54] <smrtz> What kinda wind were you working with?
[15:54] <edmoore> well it could make progress into about 40kmh wind
[15:54] <edmoore> but the problem is that if you go into the wind then turn sideways your drag against the wind vecotr increases by about 200
[15:55] <edmoore> as the Cd goes from like 0.05 to sort of 0.4, and the front area increases by 10 or so
[15:55] <edmoore> the pod attached to the blimp by velcro and guy lines
[15:56] <edmoore> the belly of the blimp had two strips of very sticky industrial velcro
[15:56] <HixWork> dual-lok
[15:56] <HixWork> ?
[15:56] <edmoore> and then we guyed it to lines attached from further up the envelope
[15:56] <edmoore> don't remember
[15:56] <HixWork> that stuff is the nuts
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[15:57] <smrtz> Ahh, cool.
[15:57] <edmoore> will try and find you some pics
[15:57] <edmoore> they're on another machine
[15:57] <edmoore> nothing sshfs can't fix up
[15:57] <HixWork> sketchup is from trimble the GPS people?!?
[15:58] <smrtz> minizepp was sold to Anabatic, and they don't sell just an envelope, so I can't get it from them, but how was the construction of it? the website makes me think that they make high quality stuff.
[15:58] <smrtz> Great thaks.
[15:59] <smrtz> Also, the "Rockoon" seems like an awesome idea, is there anyone working on it?
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[16:00] <edmoore> smrtz, it was very good quality
[16:00] <edmoore> i enjoyed withing with phillipe
[16:01] <edmoore> it served us very well
[16:01] <edmoore> we did have a sort of go at rockoons too
[16:01] <edmoore> but a bit of a regulatory quagmire
[16:01] <smrtz> edmoore: Yeah, it seems like it. How was filling it? adamgreig pointed out that filling in the wind is harder than I thought it would be.
[16:01] <edmoore> i think now that ground launching is a much easier way of breaking 100km
[16:01] <edmoore> i'd fill it indoors
[16:01] <edmoore> for sure
[16:01] <edmoore> but dealing with blimps in the wind is not so bad compared to balloons
[16:02] <edmoore> they're stable and low drag if poitning into the wind
[16:02] <edmoore> if you want tethered stuff consider allsopp helikites
[16:02] <smrtz> Let me look that up.
[16:02] <edmoore> disclosure in the name of correctness is that i make the emergency cutdowns systems for them that bring them down if they detch from their moorings
[16:02] <edmoore> they won't update their website but their product is very very good, and used by lots of universities, nato, etc
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[16:03] <smrtz> Thanks for the heads up.
[16:04] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ew0m7gzt4p79kj6/0LcCjjtznf
[16:04] <edmoore> 3 random pics from my cameraphone
[16:04] <edmoore> most of them with my actual camera must be elsewhere
[16:04] <edmoore> anyway hopefully from the first you can see the mounting arrangement
[16:04] <smrtz> Yeah, it's really helpful. thanks.
[16:04] <edmoore> the last is the electronics pod
[16:04] <edmoore> with velcro
[16:05] <edmoore> what application do you have in mind?
[16:06] <smrtz> Fun, as well as a school reserch project.
[16:06] <edmoore> well a lot of the off-the-shelf blimp/aerostat solutions might be a bit spendy
[16:07] <smrtz> I'm able to get the school to buy these "toys" as long as I document the hell out of it, and use it for research to work with other projects.
[16:07] <HixWork> edmoore is that the FLIR camera at the bottom you were talking about earlier
[16:07] <edmoore> yep
[16:07] <smrtz> edmoore: what other solutions would you recommend?
[16:07] <HixWork> and what have you done with eroomde
[16:08] <edmoore> smrtz, i'd recommend spending the money I'ma friad :)
[16:08] <HixWork> looks huge compared to the new ones
[16:08] <LeoBodnar_> Going home see you soon.
[16:08] <edmoore> unless you actually want to fight the battle of making envelopes reliably
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[16:08] <edmoore> HixWork, this was a fairly serious calibrated instrumentation one
[16:09] <smrtz> edmoore: yeah, that's what I thought, I've got a private funder backing me, so that's not too big of an issue...
[16:09] <edmoore> ok
[16:09] <edmoore> it's worth picking your battles with these things
[16:09] <edmoore> however it took me a few years to break out of the student mindset and realise that
[16:09] <HixWork> for the terrain mapping?
[16:09] <smrtz> edmoore: maybe later, but to get started, I feel like at least that aspect of it should be something I can trust.
[16:09] <edmoore> HixServer, glaciers and avalanch fields
[16:09] <edmoore> to make 3d temperature maps
[16:09] <HixWork> sweet
[16:10] <edmoore> smrtz, sounds sensible
[16:10] <HixWork> goal of avalance prediction?
[16:10] <edmoore> smrtz, so what are you actually hoping to do?
[16:10] <edmoore> HixWork, yep
[16:10] <HixWork> nice
[16:10] <edmoore> they think solar heating of rocks is a probable cause
[16:10] <edmoore> causing local melting around exposed rocks
[16:10] <smrtz> edmoore: to start? Just a camera for surveillance, as well as as many sensors as I can fit on it,
[16:10] <edmoore> we were helping to investiage that doing flights as the sun came up
[16:10] <edmoore> it meant lots of early starts
[16:10] <edmoore> but it was a nice trip to davos
[16:11] <smrtz> but that's just for the initial launch, after we get a stable platform, the sky's the limit, haha.
[16:11] <edmoore> smrtz, ok, so presumably tethered then
[16:11] <edmoore> ah well
[16:11] <smrtz> edmoore: yeah.
[16:11] <HixWork> alpine starts can be killers, especially in the summer
[16:11] <edmoore> the technologies are quite different
[16:11] <edmoore> as in, what you can do at 100m is quite different to what you can do at 30000m
[16:12] <smrtz> edmoore: well, it'll stay tethered, so that's not an issue.
[16:12] <edmoore> ah riht
[16:12] <edmoore> ok
[16:12] <edmoore> well, i've been very impressed with the allsopp stuff. it is designed to stay up for days/weeks and cope with very bad weather and strong winds
[16:13] <smrtz> edmoore: This is you?: http://www.allsopp.co.uk/index.php?mod=page&id_pag=17
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[16:13] <edmoore> yep
[16:13] <smrtz> Can I have a demo kit? I'll pay for shipping, lol.
[16:13] <edmoore> i'm afraid you'd have to ask them!
[16:14] <smrtz> Yeah, I know.
[16:14] <edmoore> they have exclusive rights to them
[16:14] <edmoore> i just make them. i actually (day job) work on completely different stuff
[16:14] <smrtz> Would you recommend the skyshout, or the tactical aerostat/
[16:14] <edmoore> but we make these
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[16:15] <edmoore> I think it would depend entirely on the application. Sandy Allsopp (the director) would be an excellent guy to have a chat with on the phone
[16:15] <edmoore> he's very knowledgeable and won't try and sell you things you don't need.
[16:15] <smrtz> Ok, I'll call him sometime soon. Thanks.
[16:15] <edmoore> the bimps are his design
[16:15] <edmoore> no problem
[16:17] <edmoore> smrtz, where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?
[16:17] <smrtz> edmoore: I PMed it to you.
[16:18] <smrtz> ehh, fuck it, USA>
[16:18] <edmoore> :)
[16:18] <edmoore> doesn't narrow it down too much so you're safe :)
[16:18] <smrtz> edmoore: my thoughts exactly, plus I'm connected through Tor, so I could even say my address, and you'd have no idea who I am. jk
[16:19] <smrtz> there was a post on the Tor mailing list a while ago, someone was pissed because Tor "leaked" there info, when they posted their address....
[16:19] <edmoore> our gps cutdowns systems log where they go :)
[16:20] <smrtz> I'm trying to pick between the skyhook 2.0, and the 20foot blimp at http://www.southernballoonworks.com/blimps/camera-blimps-aerostats.html. Can you weigh in?
[16:20] <smrtz> edmoore: they log back to the owner, right? Not to the vender?
[16:20] <smrtz> vendor^
[16:20] <edmoore> depends on your max wind requirement
[16:20] <edmoore> the skyhook will happily survive much higher than 15mph winds
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[16:21] <edmoore> and especially if you tether higher the winds are likely to be faster
[16:21] <smrtz> edmoore: yeah, that's what I'm thinking. But I really have no way of knowing what wind I'll be in.
[16:21] <edmoore> well, higher usually is faster
[16:21] <edmoore> is it the kind of thing you'll want to keep up for a while?
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[16:21] <edmoore> or are you happy to just send it up for 30 mins or so then bring it back in?
[16:22] <smrtz> edmoore: yeah, a few days hopefully.
[16:22] <edmoore> ah right
[16:22] <edmoore> i'd be inclined to go with something that can take the higher winds in that case
[16:22] <smrtz> I'm looking at average wind for my area, but it doesn't say the recorded height. .
[16:23] <edmoore> it's likely to be within the boundary layer on the ground
[16:23] <smrtz> edmoore: Do you think the skyhook 2.0 would be able to lift more than the 4Kg it says?
[16:23] <edmoore> as most building are
[16:23] <edmoore> you'd have to ask sandy
[16:23] <smrtz> fair enough.
[16:23] <edmoore> i'm afriad the specifics of each model are much beyond my knowledge
[16:23] <smrtz> I'll call him now, what time is it over there?
[16:23] <chrisstubbs> Looks like the standard HAB recovery setup: http://hackaday.com/2013/09/03/a-weekend-trip-to-verify-general-relativity/
[16:23] <edmoore> 5.30
[16:23] <edmoore> you might just catch him
[16:24] <smrtz> great,
[16:25] <smrtz> I don't have long distance apparently.
[16:25] <smrtz> I'll email him.
[16:26] <smrtz> edmoore: can I use your handle in the email?
[16:26] <arko> smrtz: you're in the us?
[16:26] <smrtz> arko: yep.
[16:26] <arko> as i see above
[16:26] <arko> nice
[16:26] <Babs__> chrisstubbs: "while leaving other atomic clocks at his home for comparison". I don't have *an* atomic clock, let alone many atomic clocks that could result in me leaving some at home.
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[16:26] <smrtz> Thanks?
[16:26] <arko> same here, los angeles
[16:26] <smrtz> arko: ahh, cool
[16:27] <arko> most people here are in the uk
[16:28] <smrtz> arko: yeah, I don't like how there's no one around me, I feel lonely, lol.
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[16:28] <Babs__> arko, you won't have any use for your reddit lonely face spacenear jpeg soon
[16:28] <arko> indeed!
[16:28] <arko> as far as habs go, welcome to the club smrtz
[16:29] <arko> the US is too damn big
[16:29] <arko> and aprs makes it such that there is no big community
[16:29] <smrtz> arko: thanks! I think I'll like it here.
[16:29] <smrtz> Actually, I joined a few years ago.
[16:29] <arko> oh
[16:29] <smrtz> I did this for a highschool project, but we never actually launched.
[16:30] <arko> launch it!
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[16:30] <arko> its coffee time for me
[16:30] <smrtz> it was at the end of the year, I had like, 2 weeks to go from never having heard of this, to launch, and I bought my parts from UPU, but the long shipping fucked me over, and we didn't get the parts till after I had graduated.
[16:30] <smrtz> I would, but all the parts are back at my highschool
[16:31] <arko> ahh
[16:31] <arko> i've had good luck with upu's shipping
[16:31] <smrtz> I still got an A though, because my report kicked ass, thanks to you guys.
[16:31] <arko> usually 1.25weeks
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[16:31] <arko> nice
[16:31] <smrtz> yeah, and now I'm doing this again for collage, hah
[16:31] <arko> you're making a collage?
[16:32] <smrtz> arko:...yes...
[16:32] <smrtz> arko: no, I'm just retarded and dyslexic, and type to fast for my own good.
[16:32] <arko> :)
[16:32] <edmoore> smrtz, he won't know eroomde
[16:32] <arko> it was too easy
[16:32] <edmoore> you can say Ed Moore from Airborne Engineering
[16:32] <smrtz> edmoore: great, thanks.
[16:33] <edmoore> oh wait my nick is edmoore not eroomde
[16:33] <edmoore> cannot. keep. track
[16:33] <arko> lol
[16:33] <adamgreig> lol
[16:33] <arko> what happen to your bouncer?
[16:33] <edmoore> gave up with perm-alogged in
[16:33] <mfa298> and I was thinking edmoore was the nice twin of eroomde :p
[16:33] <edmoore> trying to ween myself off irc
[16:33] <arko> aww
[16:33] <adamgreig> how's that going? get more work done?
[16:33] <edmoore> lol
[16:33] <arko> haha
[16:33] <edmoore> well i do when i'm not on it
[16:34] <adamgreig> yea
[16:34] <adamgreig> I should probably be stricter about irc during work time
[16:34] <edmoore> well work time is all the time for me anyway
[16:34] <arko> just mini breaks in a long work day
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[16:34] <adamgreig> edmoore: yea exactly...
[16:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hopefully B-12 will be in range of Austria & Slovakia shortly, B-11 starting to drop out with me now.
[16:35] <edmoore> brb
[16:36] <smrtz> edmoore: sent the email.
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[16:37] <smrtz> Can anyone help me pick between the NEO-6 and the LEA-6 uBlocks modules please?
[16:38] <Upu> sure use a MAX module :)
[16:38] <Upu> LEA has built in USB
[16:38] <Upu> generally not needed
[16:38] <Upu> what do you need it for smrtz ?
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[16:39] <Upu> i.e what are you connecting to it with
[16:39] <smrtz> Upu: The GPS is for a paparazzi autopilot.
[16:39] <Upu> ok
[16:40] <Upu> some sort of microcontroller ? connecting using serial ?
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[16:40] <smrtz> Upu: http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Lisa/M_v20
[16:40] <smrtz> using UART.
[16:40] <Upu> ok use the max modules
[16:41] <Upu> same performance
[16:41] <Upu> less size
[16:41] <smrtz> Upu, max modules?
[16:41] <Upu> also Max7's use less power, 10hz updates
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[16:41] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_64
[16:41] <smrtz> upu, yeah, just found that.
[16:41] <Upu> same instructions and code as the LEA's and NEO's
[16:41] <smrtz> Thanks for the help Upu
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[16:41] <Upu> nps
[16:42] <Upu> I have Eagle parts for all of them
[16:42] <smrtz> what's the difference between the u-blox 6 and 7 modulus? just size?
[16:42] <Upu> internal engine
[16:42] <smrtz> Do you have a breakout board?
[16:43] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[16:43] <smrtz> Thanks.
[16:43] <smrtz> what made you want you use the chip scale antenna?
[16:44] <Upu> size and weight
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[16:44] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
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[16:44] <smrtz> How does it preform compared to a panel, or helix?
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[16:45] <Upu> in our application little difference
[16:45] <Upu> the chips are very good
[16:45] <Upu> but more susceptible to interferene
[16:45] <smrtz> Thanks for the help.
[16:46] <smrtz> wait, interference? This will also be used in an autonomous plane, so near motors, ESCs, BECs, and batteries.
[16:46] <Upu> well that needs testing
[16:46] <Upu> I'm doing an active antenna version
[16:47] <Upu> but generally the chips do ok, its those crappy chinese cameras that kill them
[16:47] <smrtz> Upu: well, it's also going to be near an FPV system, so thanks for the tip, really.
[16:47] <Upu> it would be worth testing
[16:48] <smrtz> Can you explain an active vs passive sarantel antenna please?
[16:48] <Upu> well firstly Sarantel have gone bust
[16:48] <Upu> so no more Sarantels
[16:48] <Upu> the ones I sell are passive
[16:48] <Upu> good at rejecting interference due to design
[16:48] <smrtz> Ahh.
[16:48] <Upu> generally you don't need active antennas unless you have a long cable run from antenna
[16:49] <Upu> however sometimes people prefer them
[16:49] <Upu> best thing would be test a chip
[16:49] <smrtz> So an active antenna just has it's own power input?
[16:49] <Upu> in your environment
[16:49] <Upu> the module can power it
[16:49] <Upu> supply VCC to the rf in
[16:49] <Upu> I have to go walk dog smrtz
[16:50] <Upu> I'll be back later on we can continue this discussion then if you're about
[16:50] <smrtz> Upu: Ok, I've got class soon, but you've given me enough info to do some googleing of my own.
[16:50] <smrtz> Thanks for all the help!
[16:50] <Upu> nps
[16:50] <Upu> welcome laters
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[16:53] <smrtz> edmoore: do you know what kind of tethers Helikits sells?
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[17:01] <edmoore> smrtz, i think everything from a peg to automatic electronic winches built onto ground spoort trailers
[17:02] <smrtz> edmoore: yeah, that's what I'm seeing.
[17:02] <bertrik> LeoBodnar: I'm impressed by your balloons and payloads, very nice
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> Thanks bertrik
[17:03] <edmoore> LeoBodnar, the shop air line did some spectacular things to the insides
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[17:03] <LeoBodnar> Oh, good idea! We have one here as well.
[17:04] <edmoore> i think i also got the fan up to about 90,000rpm
[17:05] <G4MYS-2> The B11 logger seems to be having a fit ! I can assure you all I was asleep with the radio equipment OFF at 1AM this morning!
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> dont fry the controller
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[17:05] <smrtz> Has anyone here looked at the HackRF?
[17:06] <edmoore> yes. not me but others have. i'm sure they'll chime in
[17:06] <edmoore> but a lot of people in general here like SDR
[17:06] <LazyLeopard> G4MYS-2: Ah, but you picked up one of the "track replay" data blocks at some point... ;)
[17:06] <smrtz> I've been playing with a cheap rtlsdr, it's fun.
[17:06] <LeoBodnar> Sometimes you can burn the fan controller that way. I'd suggest holding impeller when you are doing this.
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:06] <edmoore> it was an accident :)
[17:07] <smrtz> I like how it can transmit, I'm thinking of picking one up...
[17:07] <LeoBodnar> {Innocent look}
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> B12 battery voltage dropping oddly
[17:08] <edmoore> the both still work
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> It's OK it just trying to sustain frequent TX sessions as it considers that it has sufficient charge.
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> ah i see
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> clever
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> Solar panel obviously does not have excess energy anymore but will maintain LiPo level at 4.00V
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> i was comparing solar panel voltage and it looked like current draw had increased since this morning
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> THat's the theory anyway
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> During the day?
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[17:10] <Laurenceb_> well - assuming solar panel voltage has some relationship with output power
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> then its not at the point it was at this morning
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> yet d(v_battery)/d(t) is negative
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> interesting step profile in the panel voltage
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if there is significant reflection off the envelope or something
[17:12] <LeoBodnar> Possibly, some sky refection maybe
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[17:14] <HixPad> Babs__: Thinking on the M25 could be an option to get templates cut from Perspex, make the process a lot easier and more accurate.
[17:14] <LeoBodnar> It's also an MPPT controller so it moves V-batt point the where it thinks the extracted power is max. AT high radiation levels it's usually plateaus
[17:14] <LeoBodnar> V_solar sorry
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[17:15] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> whats the free lift on B11 and 12?
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[17:18] <G4MYS-2> LazyLeopard Manythanks certainly interesting to see the progress of the flight and be involved Andy
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> oh its on the page lol
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[17:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Your going to have to include the date in the Log file transmissions!
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> Haha yes if habitat can use it
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> 3.0 on B-11 and about 4.0 on B-12
[17:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> At the moment its adding the Log records back into each day!
[17:22] <edmoore> my multimeter is now approach -1V adamgreig
[17:22] <edmoore> approaching*
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: habitat has to grow up and start trusting seuence numbers
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> *sequence
[17:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> That's one one indeed! Maybe also need to include DTG rather than just time in the records.
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[17:27] <HanzZ_> LeoBodnar: remote == websdr?
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> Lost B-12 on Odenwald radio
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> globaltuners
[17:27] <HanzZ_> I see, thx
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> wonderful tech! XD
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[17:32] <Laurenceb_> i see lots of people to the south east
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> should be coming into range around now
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[17:32] <HanzZ_> no luck for brno probably :)
[17:33] <HanzZ_> (south Czech republic)
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[17:37] <LeoBodnar> B-12 has battery of unknown quality, just pulled it out from the RC box so can't vouch for its past. I guess even if it dies overnight it's a good result already as it has proved that LiPos sort of work.
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[17:42] <LeoBodnar> B-12 decode $$B-12,1051,1n809,49.0288,1B.187,9317,7,-13O3.95,0.WP*3bit'$$B-aeq,1o52,174043,49.6,10.2024,9249,6t m13I3.94,0.53*e737
[17:43] <Laurenceb_> now you just correct it by hand and submit :P
[17:44] <LeoBodnar> How do I submit?
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> dunno lol
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[17:44] <daveake> ping Upu
[17:44] <edmoore> LeoBodnar, i am tempted to make up some little plates that mount to the rack-mount ear of the 6632b. they'll have everything (+,-, sense, earth) broken out to posts
[17:44] <daveake> ^^ he knows
[17:44] <edmoore> might you be interested?
[17:44] <x-f> first correct it :)
[17:45] <x-f> i emailed mclane earlier today, but haven't got any response yet :/
[17:45] <daveake> Yes might take a while :)
[17:45] <LeoBodnar> I'd drill front panel
[17:45] <edmoore> well it has holes for 2 already
[17:45] <edmoore> but i think it'll look a bit gash with 5
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> I'll talk to Pete tomorrow if you remind me. He's the guy for this stuff.
[17:46] <edmoore> ok
[17:46] <Willdude123> edmoore, nice new nick :)
[17:46] <edmoore> i am just going to use our normal front panel service
[17:46] <edmoore> everything looks nice from them
[17:46] <edmoore> eg http://www.ael.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/fle_panel.jpg
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[17:47] <edmoore> Willdude123, it's actually a very old nick
[17:47] <LeoBodnar> Steampunk paradise
[17:47] <edmoore> at predates eroomde by almost half a decade
[17:48] <edmoore> LeoBodnar, yup!
[17:48] <Willdude123> Ah. Why you suddenly changed it?
[17:48] <edmoore> they like things simple and solid in the sattelite biz
[17:48] <kpiman> is the track around Bay of Biscay a guestimate?
[17:48] <Willdude123> Now I can't laugh at my mum doing her deliberately annoying northern accent saying "Who's ee-romde?"
[17:49] <edmoore> kpiman, nope accurate
[17:49] <edmoore> apart from the obvious anomolous values
[17:49] <edmoore> Willdude123, dunno, think eroomde is logged in on another machine
[17:50] <LeoBodnar> Hello mum
[17:51] <kpiman> it's an impressive trip. By both
[17:52] <efahrenholz_> how are you guys tracking these? Yagi's?
[17:52] <chrisstubbs> Some yagis, some colinears
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[17:53] <craag> Probably a couple of dipoles and 1/4 wave as well!
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> $$B-12,1055,1748rn6b48.9707,10.2669,9275,ZtcY,Q55X*d2fi$$B-12,16,175116,48.9267,10.3897,11059,5,-13,3.94O0.52*34
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[17:54] <Laurenceb_> ,9275 altitude?
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> Yep
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> what does hysplit say?
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> about prediction
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> Haven't look. Please standby!
[17:57] <mfa298> I was using a 1/4 GP earlier :D - bit out of range now (unless we get more of that magic tropo or whatever it was last night)
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[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:58] <chrisstubbs> hi Lunar_Lander
[17:58] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[17:59] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-12/NOAA.gif
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[18:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is a cleaned up KML for B-11 with data up to recently here if anyone wants to play http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=1
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> Excellent Geoff-G8DHE
[18:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just processing for Lat/Long oddities at the moment as well
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[18:03] <G4MYS-2> Magic tropo... be aware that at nightfall that sometimes a form of grey line propergation happens Viz long distance reception, as fog is forcast it is possable for long distance reception so keep the rx on and computer going and see!
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> B-11 http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/NOAA.gif
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> b-11 should come into range again sooner
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[18:13] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[18:14] <adamgreig> eroomde: count them cosmic rays!
[18:14] <Smrtz_> eroomde: what kinda datalink were you guys using?
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> build a drift chamber
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[18:19] <edmoore> Smrtz_, some 1W zigbee modem things
[18:19] <Smrtz_> edmoore: Oh, cool.
[18:19] <edmoore> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9411
[18:20] <edmoore> did the job
[18:20] <Smrtz_> edmoore: Hmm, haven't seen those before.
[18:20] <edmoore> not the best designed things in the world
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> well its from sparkfun
[18:20] <Smrtz_> Laurenceb_: haha.
[18:22] <edmoore> iirc it had basically no onboard decoupling
[18:22] <edmoore> it kept resetting itself
[18:22] <edmoore> until i added an electrolytic and a 1u ceramic across the power pins locally
[18:22] <edmoore> then it was fine
[18:22] <edmoore> there were a few things like that
[18:22] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: im lazy
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> what are you using these for?
[18:23] <edmoore> also the tx times were a bit nondeterministic in 'transparent' serial mode
[18:23] <edmoore> blimp
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> oh
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> cool
[18:23] <edmoore> historical
[18:23] <edmoore> not present tense
[18:23] <edmoore> not using them atm
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[18:24] <Laurenceb_> ooh a new B12 position
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[18:28] <LeoBodnar> Foil balloon seems to be an underdamped system with a few oscillation modes
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[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/73dfc25187480c1e90106d50c3c04ce4 paste "2013-09-03 12:00" into from box and select "Altitude"
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[18:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm will B-11 last till the weekend and the Conference we wonder ;-)
[18:31] <edmoore> it's exactly that oscillation that i've always been interested in
[18:31] <edmoore> it's the oscillation that the latex's display too
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> I can see B-12 is struggling with the battery
[18:31] <edmoore> (perhaps you're in somewhere with a better lapse rate at 9km)
[18:32] <edmoore> i want to know if it's the balloon moving within the airmass or the airmass itself moving
[18:32] <edmoore> due to gravity waves or whatever
[18:32] Nick change: Morbo -> KyleYankan
[18:32] <edmoore> the instrumentation requirement to see that at 9km is actually much lower than at 36km too
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> gravity waves are slower
[18:32] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if it can be made critically damped
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> One parameter is envelope elasticity
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> oh wait
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> So it's nonlinear from the outset as we are at the limit of plastic flow
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> this is slower than latex
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/user/read/downloads/Marshall_fgfd/lecture2.pdf
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> I don't think atmosphere itself has such a nice oscillatory mode
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> i went to that lecture series :P
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[18:35] <Laurenceb_> assignment 1: calculate typical period
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> :P
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> Haha what do you remember then?
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[18:35] <Laurenceb_> not a lot
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> i crammed for exam then forgot it all
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> but the lecture handout hasnt changed
[18:36] <edmoore> what is a typical period?
[18:37] <edmoore> i'm not sure about the elasticity being part of the critical damping term
[18:37] <edmoore> there must be so much air friction
[18:37] <edmoore> well actually maybe i don't mean that
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunt%E2%80%93V%C3%A4is%C3%A4l%C3%A4_frequency
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[18:38] <edmoore> what's a typical value?
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> http://www.shodor.org/os411/courses/_master/tools/calculators/brunt/
[18:38] <edmoore> you have to tell me
[18:38] <edmoore> rather than me calculate it
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> 15minutes is typical
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> thats what we are seeing
[18:39] <edmoore> is that not what we're seeing?
[18:39] <edmoore> yeah
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> latex is considerably faster, and looks more like a balloon bouyancy thing
[18:39] <edmoore> but i'm confused
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[18:39] <edmoore> i suggested gravity waves
[18:39] <edmoore> you said no, too fast
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> yeah i was thinking of latex
[18:40] <edmoore> ah right
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> as we'd looked at that before
[18:40] <edmoore> so this oscillation could be gravity waves then
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> and it didnt seem right
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[18:40] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[18:40] <edmoore> right
[18:40] <edmoore> indeed
[18:40] <edmoore> well that was my thinking
[18:40] <edmoore> would just be nice to instrument to get delta p and abs p
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[18:40] <edmoore> which should confirm it one way or the other
[18:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> If the battery holds out we might even see B-12 again!
[18:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/17013_trj001.gif
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[18:46] <Laurenceb_> chernobyl overflight
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> sunset at B11
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> looks like theres still some envelope stretch going on
[18:48] <Willdude123> It's amazing how versatile irc is.
[18:48] <Willdude123> Even when my internet is too slow to send facebook messages, irc works.
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[18:48] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if its an exponential approach to some extension
[18:49] <mikestir> I think that's probably more of an indication of how crap facebook is
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> or it will continue forever/until burst
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> looks like it gained 150m or so today
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> Does stress accumulate in plastics?
[18:49] <mikestir> given that facebook messenger uses MQTT
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: you tend to orientate them
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> Yes, that's plastic
[18:50] <Willdude123> Or maybe it isn't working, and these messages are still being sent
[18:51] <mfa298> remember irc dates from the days when the internet was all pretty slow links.
[18:51] <Willdude123> My internet can't load google atm.
[18:52] <Willdude123> IRC is still working. It's amazing
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[18:52] <S_Mark> Anyone with experience with ServoTimer2?
[18:52] <S_Mark> .h
[18:53] <Willdude123> I just got those messages as a whole chunk at once so maybe it is quite slowq
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> hi S_Mark
[18:53] <S_Mark> Hey chrisstubbs
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> did you have any joy with that code last night?
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> hey S_Mark !
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[18:57] <S_Mark> Hey Lunar_Lander
[18:57] <S_Mark> Good thanks
[18:57] <Willdude123> Hi Lunar_Lander
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:57] <Willdude123> How are you?
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[18:58] <S_Mark> http://imgur.com/Ra8Trl5
[18:58] <S_Mark> Stratodean 2 is on our wall
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13_> sweet!
[18:59] <Willdude123> Right need to reboot
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13_> S_Mark: You got S3 up and running yet? :/
[18:59] <iain_g4sgx> ibanematt13: You recover WW ok?
[18:59] <S_Mark> Trackers working, just planning what we want to achieve with the other bits!
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[19:04] <WillDuckworth> edmoore -
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, awesome
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[19:10] <chrisg7ogx> i see F6AGV has posted instructions in french for installation of DL_Fldigi
[19:12] <Tramvai> S_Mark: That looks damn great
[19:13] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13_, did the 30k surprise work?
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[19:13] <Upu> B-12 has been r00ted :)
[19:13] <S_Mark> Ah thanks very much Tramvai - sized it up and bought it online
[19:13] <r2x0t> Upu: yop
[19:13] <Steve_2e0vet> S_Mark, awesome picture
[19:14] <Upu> is that you r2x0t ?
[19:14] <Tramvai> 10/10 would put on my wall
[19:14] <r2x0t> yes
[19:14] <r2x0t> very nice signal here
[19:14] <Upu> in Prague
[19:14] <Upu> nice
[19:14] <Upu> good effort :)
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[19:14] <r2x0t> http://puu.sh/4ifA8.wav
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> battery doesnt look too good
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> but its very cold
[19:15] <Upu> its getting to the point where I would expect a Lipo to give up
[19:15] <x-f> got reply from mclane, he's in south france currently :)
[19:15] <enkidu> yeah, is is just over lower level for li-ions
[19:15] <smrtz> Upu: I think I'm going to go with the NEO-7 series GPS instead, I like the 5Hz update speed, and the lack of Flash memory isn't an issue for my.
[19:15] <smrtz> me*
[19:16] <Upu> hmm
[19:16] <Upu> you know the MAX7 has 10hz updates
[19:16] <Upu> and no flash memory
[19:16] <Upu> is smaller and just as easy to solder ?
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> lipo is good to 3.3v
[19:16] <smrtz> yeah, isn't 5Hz faster?
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> at low temperature you can go lower
[19:16] <Upu> no :)
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> 3v or so
[19:16] <Upu> 10hz = 10 updates eve second
[19:16] <Upu> 5hz = 5 updates
[19:17] <Upu> thought I suspect the NEO can do 10hz
[19:17] <Upu> the NEO7 anyway
[19:17] <Upu> the NEO6 is 5
[19:17] <smrtz> What? 1 Hz is one clock cycle, right?
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> It's just about where hell freezes over :) I didn't expect it to go that far into the continent. Still not a bad going floating at 9000+ m all day
[19:17] <Upu> 1hz= once a second
[19:17] <Upu> so 10hz update rate = 10 positions every second
[19:17] <smrtz> well shit.
[19:17] <smrtz> Guess I'm going with the max7 again.
[19:18] <Upu> The NEO7 will do 10hz I'm sure but I don't see the point in going with that when the MAX7 does exactly the same
[19:18] <Upu> and is smaller
[19:18] <enkidu> Laurenceb_: dont know exact curve, but in therms of thermodynamics it sounds reasonable
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> low temperature basically shifts all the voltages down
[19:18] <Upu> smrtz is this a one off or are you going to be doing a large volume ?
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> but it also increases ESR
[19:19] <smrtz> Upu: well, I'm just experimenting now, once I get a set up I like, I'll have a bunch made for me.
[19:19] <smrtz> but for now, I'm making one by hand.
[19:19] <Upu> ok fair enough
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> i suspect it didnt charge fully during the day
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> due to the low temperature
[19:19] <Upu> well the MAX modules are just as easy to solder as the NEO's but just less pins
[19:20] <smrtz> yeah, I'm comparing the datasheets now.
[19:20] <Upu> sure
[19:20] <Upu> which country are you in ?
[19:20] <smrtz> USA
[19:20] <Upu> ok get some prices on small quantaties on NEO7s
[19:20] <Upu> suspect you'll come running :)
[19:22] <smrtz> Do you happen to know what all the letters after the 7 mean?
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> UBLOX has been waking up and consuming massive amounts of power. I might switch back to powersaving periodic mode. UBLOX inconsistency is really irritating.
[19:22] <Upu> LeoBodnar let me have your findings I can pass them back to ublox
[19:22] <Upu> Yes smrtz
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[19:23] <Upu> the 7M doesn't have a TCXO
[19:23] <Upu> the 7N does
[19:23] <Upu> locking times will be slightly quicker on the N
[19:23] <Upu> M has ROM, N has flash
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> OK, at the moment it is 100% unpredictable. Woke up yesterday at 23:00UTC, consumed massive amount of power and went from 4 sats to 13. Than dropped back to 4 within an hour...
[19:24] <Upu> this is one you have locally ?
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> No I think it was B-12
[19:24] <Upu> how can you tell how much power its using ?
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> eek B-12 is getting frozen
[19:24] <Upu> thats cold
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> no wonder the battery is low
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[19:26] <enkidu> both are freezing
[19:26] <smrtz> Upu: can you compare the max7c and the max7q please?
[19:26] <Upu> sure same as above basically
[19:26] <Upu> 7C has no TCXO
[19:26] <Upu> 7Q does
[19:26] <Upu> 7C will run down to 1.8V
[19:26] <smrtz> and the c locks faster?
[19:27] <Upu> Q will lock quicker
[19:27] <Upu> but not talking many seconds here under idential conditions
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[19:27] <Laurenceb_> just need to cut down over ublox headquarters
[19:27] <smrtz> Oh, ok. What's the TCX0 used for?
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> b11 might pass over
[19:27] <Upu> TCXO is temperature compensated crystal oscillator
[19:27] <Upu> means the internal timing is better
[19:27] <smrtz> Ahh, Ok. Thanks.
[19:28] <Upu> uses less power in standby
[19:28] <Upu> crystal based boards use more power
[19:28] <Upu> in standby
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> -30C oooh
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[19:28] <smrtz> Power isn't really an issue for me right now.
[19:29] <Upu> no so a 7Q would be a good one to go for
[19:29] <Upu> well either 7C or 7Q
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[19:30] <Maxell> x-f: yeah, I used two dl-fldigi's, ±500 Hz is too much to handle for one dl-fldigi :P
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> interesting how the vertical oscillation correlates with temperature oscillation
[19:30] <smrtz> How many more Ma/h does the Q use?
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[19:33] <smrtz> Upu: Do you know how much more power the 7q uses?
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[19:36] <Willdude123> test
[19:37] hojo1690 (~mqh1spam@nat-128-84-124-0-499.cit.cornell.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[19:37] <craag> smrtz: Look at the ublox datasheet, figures are in there.
[19:37] <smrtz> craag, thanks.
[19:38] <Willdude123> Hi craag
[19:38] <Willdude123> Got 97% on the hamtests.co.uk thing
[19:39] <Willdude123> My interwebz is slow. The intertubes must have been blocked.
[19:39] <Upu> smrtz not much more the power usage on all the MAX7 modules is really low
[19:40] <Upu> 25mA under acquire and then down to 5mA in 1 sec cyclic power saving
[19:40] <smrtz> Great, thanks!
[19:40] <Upu> Has B-12 frozen up ?
[19:41] <Upu> r2x0t is it still pipping ?
[19:41] <craag> Willdude123: Well done on the hamtests!
[19:41] Action: craag afk
[19:41] <Willdude123> I must admit my knowledge is shady in places.
[19:41] <smrtz> Only one mA difference between the two.
[19:42] <Upu> I'd try the 7C
[19:42] <Upu> its slightly cheaper
[19:42] <Willdude123> Urgh back to the <insert expletive beginning with an s and ending with a t>hole tomorrow
[19:42] <Upu> School !
[19:42] <Upu> super
[19:42] <Upu> :)
[19:43] <smrtz> Upu: I'm getting the money for this, so I'd rather get the 1s faster lock time, and pay the extra few dollers.
[19:43] <smrtz> dollars*
[19:43] <Upu> sure 7Q it is then
[19:43] <smrtz> Upu: Can you recommend some antennas for me to check out aswell please/
[19:43] <Upu> active or passive ?
[19:43] <Upu> taoglas are ok
[19:43] <bertrik> hmm, B-11 getting out-of-range :(
[19:43] <Upu> larger the batter generally
[19:44] <smrtz> I'm not sure, the 7q is better optimized for passive right?
[19:44] <Upu> either or
[19:44] <Upu> just get a nice patch on it should be fine
[19:44] <r2x0t> Upu: it got much weaker
[19:44] <smrtz> Ok, thanks
[19:44] <r2x0t> no decode
[19:44] <Upu> is it pipping still ?
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[19:45] <r2x0t> don't hear it now
[19:45] <Upu> thats frustrating as you're at the range anyway so may have frozen up, may be just out of range
[19:47] <r2x0t> pips are back
[19:48] <Willdude123> Upu To call it a school would be giving it un-necessary praise
[19:50] <Upu> so its still alive :)
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[19:50] <r2x0t> just sent position
[19:50] <Upu> Wonder if OE5GOLis about
[19:50] <smrtz> Willdude123: Why's that?
[19:50] <r2x0t> but too bad copy to upload
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[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: have you perhaps investigated if it's possible to test out of subjects?
[19:50] <r2x0t> -30C temp
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[19:51] <Upu> can you paste a string even if its errored ?
[19:51] <r2x0t> Dw4Nn494,11n94rrTD10a7,-HS,m-I0#23aa,41r1P4,90X3,8,-3oeY.42,0*3aHt7
[19:51] <r2x0t> not very good :()
[19:51] <Upu> yeah not going to be able to fix that :)
[19:52] <r2x0t> will keep trying
[19:52] <smrtz> Upu: does the ublox MAX-6 pico breakout board work for the max-7? I checked the hardware integration manual, but I'd like to be sure.
[19:52] <r2x0t> but soon it will go behind a building and I guess that will be the end
[19:52] <Upu> yes it will I can supply one with a MAX7Q on it built and tested
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if B11 is simply spinning
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[19:53] <smrtz> That might be something that we do. Thanks.
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> that would explain the altitude and temperature correlation
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[19:53] <R0b0t1> More idle material, muahahaha.
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> Amazing stuff. Too much to process at my 4.77MHz
[19:55] <Upu> sure I can hear the pips on Odenwald LeoBodnar
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> B-11 but not B-12 it died very quickly after passing overhead. Maybe antenna radiation pattern is not omni or local terrain.
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> Are you on Odenwald?
[19:57] <Upu> oh can see TX on Odenwald
[19:57] <Upu> yes
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> 434.5017 then 1733 is middle for B-11
[19:58] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/2sZLYIc.jpg
[19:58] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil, test out of subjects
[19:58] Action: Willdude123 slaps zeusbot very hard
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: In some cases, in some school systems, it is possible to take the tests ahead of time - so you don't have to go to classes, and can do other stuf with that time.
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> 1243 sorry
[19:59] <mattbrejza> SpeedEvil: such as take more a-levels?
[19:59] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil, even if I could, I'm not that intelligent
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: I'm not sure it's possible in the UK school system.
[20:00] <smrtz> Upu: I pm'd you about the breakout board, when you get the time. I can wait, so help r2x0t with his problem first.
[20:00] <mattbrejza> it was at our school if you started maths A-level in yr 11 (final GCSE year)
[20:01] <Willdude123> Unfortunately, I'm not an intelligent person.
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[20:03] <r2x0t> B12 just txed, but too weak for decoding
[20:03] <Upu> can see it TXing too but not decoding
[20:04] <Upu> its playing back now I suspect
[20:04] <Upu> as this is a long TX
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> yeah
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[20:04] <Upu> no chance of a decode
[20:05] <Upu> definitely transmitting now
[20:05] <Upu> might be B11 actually
[20:05] <Upu> thats in range
[20:06] <Upu> stopped
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> What are your dial and audio?
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[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Wow - looking back at the track. that is a _stupid_ number of recievers at points.
[20:13] <Upu> Odenwald
[20:13] <PH3V> 0-=
[20:14] <enkidu> I don't know how come there is no receiver in Munchen
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[20:16] <PE2G> SpeedEvil: I think those are the points where log files were transmitted
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> so the tracker gets confused and puts any reciever that had recieved any of those packets as being recieved then?
[20:18] <Upu> yeah
[20:18] <PE2G> Yeah I think so, I see green lines where I was out of range
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[20:19] <Laurenceb_> http://etheses.nottingham.ac.uk/2317/
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[20:19] <Laurenceb_> lolling
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> title is brilliant
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[20:20] <SpeedEvil> Regrettably unsurprising findings.
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> 'people with shitty lives tend to do drugs to avoid thinking about their shitty lives'
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah i didnt enter the right search terms on the database
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Also - way too much 'alice and bob' in the summary.
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> ended up trawling through lots of facepalm stuff
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[20:24] <Laurenceb_> on second attempt... i think their site is just horrible broken
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> *y
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[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> There doesn't seem to be much example code on the Wiki for parsing GPS data. I can only find flight mode code
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[20:28] <eroomde_> it doesn't exist
[20:28] <eroomde_> anywhere
[20:28] <r2x0t> $B-12,111GO202ia48.i0o,Dy.4452,9B ,5,-a,36d0
[20:28] <r2x0t> almost
[20:28] <eroomde_> therefore stop looking and have a go at writing your own
[20:29] <daveake> it's good exercise to write it
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> now i want to stab myslf in the face after reading some of these thesis titles
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> arggg
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde_: I was just looking for some sort of base structure so I know how the code works. I've only ever programmed in Python on a Pi you see :/ But point taken
[20:29] <eroomde_> the sooner one gets out of the habit of looking for library code for micro controllers, the better
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> superfluous twaddle
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[20:30] <eroomde_> unless it's basically a header file / api mapping numbers/memory locations to sensible names, it's not really necessary
[20:31] <eroomde_> or it's something quite complicated like ethernet or usb
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[20:31] <eroomde_> (and even then it's a good exercise, especially ethernet. usb is just disgusting)
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[20:31] <mattbrejza> SD cards?
[20:31] <mattbrejza> file systems?
[20:31] <eroomde_> file systems poss - bus sd cards?
[20:31] <eroomde_> but*
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319355&itc=eetimes_sitedefault&cid=NL_EET_Daily_20130903&elq=61698c4268a9447599ba1e10e502a6d6&elqCampaignId=987
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I have to learn that in C too
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> SD
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Automation in engineering history
[20:32] <tweetBot> @PD3EM: The Two Hign Altutude Balloons flying over Germany can use some extra listeners in DL, OE, HB9 & North. Italy #UKHAS http://t.co/SQoCuJMiPt
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> good catch r2x0t !
[20:32] <mfa298> whilst you're waiting to write your uC code for your boards you could always try something like learn C the hard way on the Pi.
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> yea, worth a try I guess
[20:34] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: the othe rreason there is no sample code for parsing is when people write it, they write it to fit into the way they want their program to run
[20:34] <mattbrejza> if you want something generic thats what tinygps is for
[20:34] <mattbrejza> all it is is generic string manipulation/parsing
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> ah, I'd better just sort it myself tbh. Bit of trial and error
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 I was looking at this and it looks reasonably simple stuff. Just saw a pointer *MSG and decided to close the page before my brain died
[20:35] <eroomde_> pointers are simple
[20:35] <eroomde_> i promise
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> I tried to see where it linked in to anything in reality, and I couldn't find anywhere
[20:35] <mattbrejza> you just need to be careful when it comes to things like assuming fields are fixed length
[20:35] <eroomde_> just be honest about learning C rather than trying to wing it
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> I really want to learn C, much nicer language than Python, in my opinion
[20:36] <eroomde_> the first chunk of learn C the hard way would be ideal for you
[20:36] <daveake> They're like a sharp knife: make sure you know where they're pointing
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde_: I started it, but it was a little too confusing for me. I couldn't undertand most of it
[20:36] <eroomde_> up to and including function pointers. that's basically all the c you need for embedded
[20:37] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if you get stuck with C there are plenty of people who can help.
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[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> I just don't understand why they are needed and what they actually are, despite the many youtube videos and various explanations. Like in the example on the Wiki, why not use int MSG instead of *MSG.
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> to save space or somthing?
[20:38] <adamgreig> you might want to learn more about pointers before declaring C to be a much nicer language than python :P
[20:38] <mattbrejza> do you understand what the 'i' in answer = array[i] is doing?
[20:39] <mfa298> int MSG is a single integer, int *MSG is a pointer to some memory that will contain data - which should be of integer type
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> the i'th element in the array?
[20:39] <mattbrejza> yea
[20:39] <mattbrejza> pointers are similar, but for pointers the array is the entire memory space
[20:39] <adamgreig> no, it's doing int answer = *(array + i*sizeof(int));
[20:39] <adamgreig> arrays are just opinters
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: don't understand. Why of int type if you did *
[20:40] <G4MYS-2> happy tracking Lads im turning in! 73 de G4MYS
[20:40] <Upu> nn
[20:40] <adamgreig> if you say like "int my_array[5]", my_array is a pointer
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[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> is it?
[20:40] <eroomde_> yes
[20:40] <daveake> it is
[20:40] <adamgreig> I advise learning C properly without trying to bodge things together or deeper misunderstandings will confuse it
[20:41] <eroomde_> ^
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> <emeb> Interesting - speed optimization on Keil doesn't seem to squeeze quite as many cycles out as -O3 on gcc does.
[20:41] <adamgreig> pointers are super key
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> <emeb> my DSP code seems to run slightly slower on Keil than it does on gcc
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> ^interesting
[20:41] <eroomde_> eroomde_: just be honest about learning C rather than trying to wing it
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> adamgreig: I've foccused on learning pointers for ages, can't seem to get it to click
[20:41] <mfa298> the * means it's a pointer to some memory, so rather than passing a value you've actually passed a reference to some memory, the int in int *MSG is more of a hint that the memory contents will be integers
[20:41] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: focus on learning C
[20:41] <adamgreig> the rest will follow
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> anthony do you have some minutes?
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok adamgreig
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[20:42] <adamgreig> as was previously mentioned here, try 'learn c the hard way'
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> I could look at it again but it was very complicated for me to understand
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[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> I learn a lot better visually I'll admit
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> generally
[20:42] <eroomde_> don't move on if you get stuck
[20:43] <adamgreig> find a guide that has good diagrams then
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> nah I don't. Just get frustrated for a bit and never look at it again :P
[20:43] <mfa298> the first times I used pointers in C I didn't really understand them (mostly with the likes of scanf) I just knew that's how the code worked,.
[20:43] <mfa298> with time the understanding came and now I'm (mostly) happy with pointers
[20:43] <adamgreig> though I have to admit I keep having to double check the syntax for referencing vs deferencing
[20:43] <adamgreig> just don't do it often enough
[20:43] <adamgreig> * or &? who knows
[20:43] <eroomde_> ibanezmatt13: have you used excel before?
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[20:44] <adamgreig> I feel like a superb analogy is about to come up
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:44] <eroomde_> so you know when you do equations, you might need to reference the contents of another cell
[20:44] <eroomde_> B4 or whatever
[20:44] <mfa298> adamgreig: I have the same issues at times (mostly for the same reason of not doing it enough)
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[20:45] <eroomde_> so you would say '= B4 + 2'
[20:45] <eroomde_> say
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[20:45] <eroomde_> if you wanted to add 2 to whatever was in B4
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> right
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[20:45] <adamgreig> this is where you realise what pointers are, ibanezmatt13
[20:45] <eroomde_> just as a random example
[20:46] <eroomde_> what does excel do when it sees '= B4 * 2'
[20:46] <eroomde_> ?
[20:46] <adamgreig> there must be some cute diagrams
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> it multiplies the contents by 2?
[20:46] <eroomde_> er, '= B4 + 2'
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> adds 2?
[20:46] <eroomde_> ibanezmatt13: it multiplies the contents by 2?
[20:46] <eroomde_> the contents of what?
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> the cell
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[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> b
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> 4
[20:47] <eroomde_> so what is b4?
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> a cell :/
[20:47] <eroomde_> yep
[20:47] <eroomde_> it's also
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> a register?
[20:47] <eroomde_> drumroll
[20:47] <eroomde_> A POINTER
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> :(
[20:47] <eroomde_> a pointer just tells you where to find what you want in memory
[20:47] <eroomde_> it's an address
[20:48] <eroomde_> i'm making a tiny simplification here to do with types but nvm for now
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> o-k
[20:48] <daveake> Stick your finger on the screen so it covers the B4 cell. See, you've made your arm into a pointer
[20:48] <eroomde_> when you say 'B4' what you mean is 'whatever is in the cell that is labelled B4'
[20:48] <daveake> now wave it about
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:49] <eroomde_> you don't want '= B4 + 2' to evaluate to 'B42' or something silly like that
[20:49] <adamgreig> (unless you're using PHP)
[20:49] <eroomde_> you want excel to go and look up what is inside B4 and add 2 to that
[20:49] <eroomde_> that's all pointers are
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> ok, so you point to B4
[20:49] <eroomde_> they point to a bit of memory
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[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> go get me some info from location b4
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> kind of thing
[20:49] <eroomde_> yes exactly
[20:49] <eroomde_> that's exactly it
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> So what's the crack?
[20:50] <eroomde_> that's it
[20:50] <eroomde_> so
[20:50] <eroomde_> *MSG is a pointer
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:50] <eroomde_> to the start of the bit of memory that has a bunch of bytes in it that is your message
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:51] <adamgreig> http://www.stanford.edu/~fringer/teaching/operating_systems_03/handouts/lecture9.pdf has some diagrams
[20:51] <adamgreig> though I'm not sure they're the best possible diagrams
[20:51] <adamgreig> some simple C code might demonstrate the concept too
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> so why is int MSG different to * MSG?
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[20:51] <eroomde_> because MSG is the name of one single byte somewhere
[20:51] <eroomde_> 4
[20:51] <eroomde_> 97
[20:51] <eroomde_> whatever
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok, and *MSG is?
[20:52] <eroomde_> int *MSG is a pointer to some number of bytes in a row somewhere in memory
[20:52] <eroomde_> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
[20:52] <eroomde_> ^---- *MSG
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> o-k
[20:52] <eroomde_> is pointed at 1
[20:52] <eroomde_> *(MSG + 1) is pointed at 2
[20:53] <eroomde_> *(MSG + 2) is pointed at 3
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:53] <mfa298> the key bit is the * which effectivly means "look at the memory at the address i've got here"
[20:53] <adamgreig> stepping back a moment
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'm going to save this window to a text file
[20:54] <adamgreig> you know that "int a = 5;" means "find some memory, store the value 5 in it, from now on I will call that memory 'a'", right?
[20:54] <adamgreig> 'int' is the _type_ of the variable 'a'
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:54] <adamgreig> you might say "float b = 4.2;" or "char c = 'Z';"
[20:54] <adamgreig> do you already understand all that?
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> yeah think so
[20:55] <adamgreig> do you understand that, say, an integer requires four bytes in memory, while a char only requires one?
[20:55] <adamgreig> (for instance -- sometimes the exact numbers are different)
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> yeah different types requrie different bytes, yeah got that
[20:55] <adamgreig> so if you tell the compiler, "int a = 5; int b = 6;" it has to find 8 bytes total to store your values
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> right
[20:56] <adamgreig> now when you write "int a = 5;", the code stores the value 5 in your computer's RAM
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:56] <adamgreig> so four bytes of your RAM now contain, in binary, 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000101
[20:56] <adamgreig> which is 5
[20:56] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[20:57] <adamgreig> every single byte of RAM in your computer has an address
[20:57] <adamgreig> "byte number 1", "byte number 2", "byte number 234723045235245" etc
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:57] <adamgreig> so your "int a = 5" needs to be stored in RAM
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[20:57] <adamgreig> and the code will keep track of which bytes in RAM it's stored at
[20:58] <adamgreig> so far, fine, whatever
[20:58] <adamgreig> you can not-worry about that, for instance in python, where it's all under the hood
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[20:58] <adamgreig> in C, you _could_ not worry about that
[20:58] <adamgreig> and just use "int a = 5; int b = 3; int c = a + b; return c;"
[20:58] <ibanezmatt13> but can and should?
[20:58] <adamgreig> no need to think about memory
[20:58] <adamgreig> but you do have the option of doing so, when the time is right
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> when is the time right?
[20:59] <adamgreig> so let's say your code has seen "int a = 5;" and stored 5 in the bytes 1234, 1235, 1236 and 1237
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:59] <adamgreig> it remembers that the variable 'a' is stored at address 1234
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[20:59] <adamgreig> which is to say, the 1234th byte of your RAM
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> right
[21:00] <adamgreig> now say you're writing some code, and you want to pass along the value of what's in 'a' to another function
[21:00] <adamgreig> for instance, you might have an addition function, add(int alpha, int beta) that returns the sum of the two arguments, right?
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> I see where this is going, please continue
[21:00] <adamgreig> when you call that function, you need to somehow tell it the things you want adding
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:01] <adamgreig> you can tell it "add 5" by copying 5 from memory and the function gets a copy of '5', the value
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> o-k
[21:01] <adamgreig> alternatively, you could tell it "add the integer stored starting at byte 1234"
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see, ok
[21:01] <adamgreig> but how would you pass '1234' to the function?
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> *
[21:01] <adamgreig> it's an integer, so maybe you could just give it 1234
[21:01] <adamgreig> and, that could work
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[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:02] <adamgreig> I mean, 1234 is an integer
[21:02] <adamgreig> the address is an integer
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[21:02] <adamgreig> but you don't know how big the computer's RAM is. maybe you have so much RAM, you need 8 bytes for each memory address -- but an int is only 4 bytes, so clearly won't do
[21:03] <adamgreig> instead C has more more data types - pointers
[21:03] <adamgreig> a pointer is another type of variable
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:03] <adamgreig> integer, character, float, integer-pointer, character-pointer, etc
[21:03] <adamgreig> it just means that this variable stores a memory address instead of a value itself
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> stop one second
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> you said it stores an address?
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> I thought it stored a value at an address
[21:04] <eroomde_> my excel analogy was crap
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait
[21:04] <eroomde_> sorry i've broken you
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[21:04] <eroomde_> imagine excel cells are the addresses in ram
[21:04] <eroomde_> some kinda 2D ram
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:05] <adamgreig> yea, so '1234' is your memory address
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[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> o-k
[21:05] <adamgreig> and if you had int* my_ptr = &a; my_ptr is a variable that stores the value 1234
[21:05] <adamgreig> and it's just like saying int b = 1234, in many ways -- it still finds space in memory
[21:05] <adamgreig> and to that memory writes the value 1234
[21:05] <eroomde_> and when you say 'int a = 5' the compiler says 'i'll put the value 5 in cell b4 and remember that 'a' is b4'
[21:05] <adamgreig> it's just another type
[21:05] <eroomde_> now as per adam
[21:06] <adamgreig> which means you could have a pointer to a pointer, etc -- they are just another variable
[21:06] <adamgreig> one that stores memory addresses instead of numbers or characters
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> ok, that kinda makes sense
[21:06] <adamgreig> I think I've probably overcomplicated it this way and honestly this is a topic that desperately wants diagrams
[21:07] <adamgreig> but a few quick syntax bits before I draw anything
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> that was a fantastic explanation, at least I know more about how computers remember things
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> even if I don't understand pointers fully yet
[21:07] <adamgreig> &a means "the address of the variable a"
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[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[21:07] <adamgreig> *a means "the value stored in the address contained by the variable a" (so A is likely a pointer)
[21:08] <adamgreig> int* is an integer-pointer type
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[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> so why int* pointer and not *pointer?
[21:08] <adamgreig> so for example: int a = 5; int* a_ptr = &a; int b = *a_ptr + 1; // b == 6
[21:09] <adamgreig> so the question really is "why have integer-pointer and character-pointer and float-pointer, not just pointer?"
[21:09] <adamgreig> given as they all just store a memory address
[21:09] <adamgreig> so they're all the same size and so forth
[21:09] <ibanezmatt13> last line at 22:08 was very helpful btw
[21:09] <adamgreig> the answer is because the compiler has to know what type of variable is going to be at that location
[21:09] <adamgreig> an int* says "you'll find an integer starting here in memory"
[21:09] <adamgreig> pointers only contain one address - but variables typically take up more
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> why does it need to know?
[21:10] <adamgreig> so if you say *my_ptr, if my_ptr is an int* it will get 4 bytes and use them as an integer
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> the type if it's all just 1s and 0s
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[21:10] <Rom> hi everyone, I dont suppose anyone knows if I can somehow still get tickets for the Greenwich conference this sat?
[21:10] <adamgreig> because different types need different amounts of 0s and 1s
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[21:10] <Upu> hi Rom
[21:11] <adamgreig> so if you do *my_ptr, it gets _four_ bytes out of RAM and turns then into an integer
[21:11] <adamgreig> if my_ptr is an int*
[21:11] <Rom> hi Upu
[21:11] <adamgreig> if you do *my_char_ptr and my_char_ptr is char*, it only gets one byte (and uses it as a char)
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> would int a get 4 bytes too though?
[21:11] <adamgreig> int a = 5; stores 4 bytes in memory
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[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:12] <adamgreig> 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000101
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> right
[21:12] <Upu> PM Rom
[21:12] <adamgreig> and let's say it stores it starting at address 1234
[21:12] <mattbrejza> (int a = 5 stores 1 byte for an avr right?) <- ibanezmatt13 ignore
[21:12] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: ints are two bytes on an AVR I think
[21:12] <mattbrejza> er
[21:12] <adamgreig> and 4 bytes on a 32 bit OS. 8 bytes on 64 bit. but hopefully that detail is currently unimportant
[21:12] <adamgreig> oh maybe they are one byte
[21:13] <adamgreig> on avr
[21:13] <mattbrejza> uint8_t ftw
[21:13] <mattbrejza> or char
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[21:13] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: I'm going to draw you a quick diagram maybe
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> that would be fantastic adamgreig but I may need to log off very soon
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> college tomorrow
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> but I've saved all this to a file to revert to
[21:14] <adamgreig> in that case I will do it some other time when you next feel like learning about pointers
[21:14] <adamgreig> my advice remains
[21:14] <adamgreig> learn C properly
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> advice taken
[21:14] <adamgreig> and really that means "learn how a computer works properly"
[21:14] <adamgreig> which means understanding RAM and storage and computation
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> goodidea
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[21:15] <adamgreig> anyway sorry for a long winded and somewhat confusing explanation but there's a lot to cover to introduce pointers in a way that I think is actually applicable to C
[21:15] <eroomde_> assembly
[21:15] <adamgreig> obviously pointers point to variables but what that means is tricky
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> Rom: Are you read only memory? :/
[21:15] <eroomde_> give him your cued course maybe
[21:15] <adamgreig> eroomde_: I would agree but assembly on an rpi is going to be a nightmare
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> sorry couldn't resist
[21:15] <adamgreig> assembly on an AVR might be a fun experience
[21:16] <adamgreig> though they are harvard architecture?
[21:16] <adamgreig> still
[21:16] <eroomde_> yes
[21:17] <adamgreig> i was the first year of the new course
[21:17] <adamgreig> by penty
[21:17] <adamgreig> PICs
[21:17] <adamgreig> worst course of the degree
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> adamgreig: My NORB boards are here, I'm learning it on those when they're amde
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> made
[21:17] <adamgreig> the man knew nothing about what he was teaching and didn't care to either
[21:17] <adamgreig> made mistakes that were glaringly obvious even during the lecture reading from his own notes
[21:17] <adamgreig> didn't know what ASCII stood for but thought he did. he thought it stood for "american standard for information exchange"
[21:18] <adamgreig> you'll note that ASIE is not quite like ASCII
[21:18] <eroomde_> asie
[21:18] <adamgreig> he actually said this during the lecture
[21:18] <jcoxon> oooo got B-11 on globaltuners
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> ok I'm gonna point myself to bed. Good night. Hey eroomde_, first day of Further Maths tomorrow :/
[21:18] <adamgreig> then someone pointed out what it actually stood for and he made fun of them for knowing
[21:18] <mattbrejza> cam <- quality uni
[21:18] <eroomde_> good luck
[21:18] <eroomde_> remember
[21:18] <eroomde_> it's easy
[21:18] <adamgreig> nn ibanezmatt13
[21:18] <adamgreig> enjoy further maths
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah right
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:18] <eroomde_> just need to find the right way of looking at it
[21:18] <adamgreig> hey eroomde_ have you read "a mathematician's lament"?
[21:18] <eroomde_> yes
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> good night
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[21:19] <LeoBodnar> good night
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> oh, left already
[21:19] <adamgreig> anyway yes penty was a truly awful lecturer
[21:19] <adamgreig> in the end I had to print out a bit of the datasheet, take it to my supervisor, who required no convincing and emailed penty
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: but can you get b-12?
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> Trying...
[21:20] <adamgreig> who replied with "oh it doesn't matter that I didn't bother with this entire concept and that I made all these mistakes or that this font made 'l' and '1' indistinguishable even though I used 'l' to represent specific variable bits in a binary number"
[21:20] <adamgreig> "because I'm just teaching the concept here"
[21:20] <adamgreig> next year the first years got a printout new page to replace that part of the databooks with 'q' instead of 'l'
[21:20] <eroomde_> he is master of his college now
[21:20] <eroomde_> wierdly
[21:20] <adamgreig> ....what.
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> Great interoperability.
[21:20] <adamgreig> who were the other candidates :/
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> Is he working for IBM yet?
[21:20] <adamgreig> I mean he may well be good at what he actually does
[21:21] <eroomde_> http://www.sid.cam.ac.uk/aboutus/people/person.html?crsid=rvp11
[21:21] <adamgreig> but I was not convinced by his approach to teaching or microprocessors
[21:21] <eroomde_> can only assume he is
[21:21] <adamgreig> might even still have the video of where he made fun of someone for knowing what ASCII stood for
[21:21] <adamgreig> in an engineering lecture on microprocessors
[21:21] <adamgreig> after _he_ didn't know
[21:21] <adamgreig> and got it wrong in a way that's obvious to a five year old who has just learnt the alphabet
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> EBCDIC ?
[21:22] <adamgreig> "american standard for information exchange" apparently
[21:23] <fsphil> American Standard Code for Information Interchange
[21:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code as I recall
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> I think D=data
[21:24] <fsphil> and sadly I didn't have to look that up
[21:24] <adamgreig> and you're not even _lecturing about ASCII_
[21:24] <adamgreig> honestly
[21:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> No it was from BCD Binary Coded Decimal , f you look the numbers are the same in EBCDIC as in BCD
[21:24] <adamgreig> I mean this is just the most obnoxious
[21:25] <adamgreig> he would regularly threaten to hold us after the lecture ended if we weren't quiet
[21:25] <adamgreig> which was just ridiculous, obviously we'd just walk out
[21:25] <eroomde_> yes
[21:25] <eroomde_> we had him for dig
[21:25] <adamgreig> not least because we had other, better lectures to go to
[21:25] <mfa298> mattbrejza: you might be lucky if Steve Rake had left ECS before you got there, some of that Cam prof sounds familiar.
[21:25] <eroomde_> 'stop talking'
[21:25] <mfa298> although Rake was an ex IBMer
[21:25] <eroomde_> with such a charisma less flatness that talking almost sounded like terking
[21:26] <eroomde_> charismaless*
[21:26] <adamgreig> that's him
[21:26] <adamgreig> ugh
[21:26] <adamgreig> and the lectures were 2pm-3pm on friday afternoon
[21:26] <adamgreig> which seriously did not help matters
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[21:28] <mfa298> adamgreig: going back a bit, your description of pointers looked to be pretty decent.
[21:28] <adamgreig> sorely needed a diagram
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[21:28] <adamgreig> looking forward to supervising next year
[21:28] <adamgreig> they will _pay_ me to sit down and explain things to people!
[21:30] <mfa298> diagrams would probably help a lot for pointers.
[21:30] <mfa298> probably helps as well if you can see them being drawn for bits of it.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: Also longbows
[21:30] <adamgreig> yea definitely
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[21:33] <mattbrejza> mfa298: we have lectures you are expert in Y but teach UGs in X (and generally cant teach)
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[21:33] <mattbrejza> *lecturers
[21:34] <mfa298> when I was a UG I had the theory that lecturers either knew their stuff, or could teach. There were a few exceptions (Eric seemed to be good at both, I'm not sure Steve was good at either)
[21:36] <mfa298> Steve did Data Structures and algorithms and his notes were all based on C. Most of the lectures were spent correcting his code.
[21:36] <mattbrejza> cant say ive heard of him
[21:36] <mfa298> I think he retired around 10 years ago.
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[21:42] hojo1690 (~mqh1spam@nat-128-84-124-0-499.cit.cornell.edu) left irc:
[21:50] <tweetBot> @jamescoxon: B-11 and B-12 still in the air over Germany/Austria 434.500Mhz DominoEx, track on http://t.co/6PpAhXUoMd #ukhas
[21:50] <gross> Hi everyone, I've just posted an update on group. seems like a farmer has picked up eranu. going to meet him tomorrow morning. wish me luck!
[21:51] <jcoxon> great gross
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> gross: Woo
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[21:51] <gross> I made an appeal on local radio this afternoon. it appears to have done the trick
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[21:55] <Bo_DK> is Upu arround?
[21:55] <Bo_DK> have a short q about the ublox....
[21:55] <Upu> go for it
[21:55] <Bo_DK> 6q is end of life... but is the 7q direct replacement?
[21:56] <Bo_DK> have a board on the way designed for 6q
[21:56] <WillTablet> Yeah
[21:56] <WillTablet> It's the same pinout
[21:56] <Upu> either the 7C or 7Q wil work
[21:56] <Bo_DK> pheeww
[21:56] <Upu> both hardware and code
[21:56] <Bo_DK> hehe... code? not even gotten to that... or yes have made a rough hack in python for my ground tracker/listningdecoder
[21:57] <Bo_DK> but need hardware to even test software
[21:57] KT5TK-UK (52997fe9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.153.127.233) joined #highaltitude.
[21:57] <jcoxon> KT5TK-UK, hooray
[21:57] <arko> nice!
[21:57] <WillTablet> Has anyone else had the dilemma, PCB+Ublox or flying lesson? I have to pick one. Might be ab
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[21:57] <WillTablet> le to do ham radio after that.
[21:57] <KT5TK-UK> Hi jcoxon
[21:58] <jcoxon> KT5TK-UK, you made it then?
[21:58] <arko> KT5TK-UK: was customs painful?
[21:58] <KT5TK-UK> Ha, no problem at all
[21:58] <arko> cool
[21:58] <arko> all you needed was a passport and to say your there for pleasure?
[21:58] <mattbrejza> arko: you get queuing pratice when you come through
[21:58] <KT5TK-UK> I have my FT817 and a 70 cm 5 el yagi in my luggage
[21:59] <arko> cool
[21:59] <mattbrejza> need to make sure all vistors are well informed
[21:59] <arko> haha
[21:59] <jcoxon> KT5TK-UK, what are your plans apart from obviously the conference
[21:59] <arko> KT5TK-UK: staying in greenwich?
[21:59] <mattbrejza> the non-eu queue is always longer too, you lot need extra pratice
[21:59] <Bo_DK> upu... then http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=74
[21:59] <KT5TK-UK> I doubt they would have found a He bottle if I had one with me
[21:59] <Bo_DK> should be one that points right up?
[22:00] <Bo_DK> but different pics
[22:00] <Upu> if you're about Friday evening KT5TK we are near Greenwich
[22:00] <Upu> no thats an end launch connector Bo_DK
[22:00] <KT5TK-UK> OK, no I have my hotel in Heathrow
[22:00] <arko> aww
[22:01] <Upu> oh ok thats a fair distance never mind
[22:01] <Bo_DK> upu you dont have those that point straight up?
[22:01] <Upu> I do have some but not on the shop
[22:01] <jcoxon> right i need sleep
[22:01] <Upu> nn
[22:01] <jcoxon> B11 is on globaltuners Odenwald on 434.501
[22:01] <Bo_DK> upu :-D
[22:02] <KT5TK-UK> But if someone is driving in from the west, I may modify my plans. My wife needs to get her flight on Sat morning though
[22:02] <Upu> decodable ?
[22:02] <Bo_DK> will have a look and see what i need
[22:02] <WillTablet> Upu will there be a recording of the conf? Or live streaming
[22:02] <Upu> live
[22:02] <jcoxon> Upu yes
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[22:03] <WillTablet> Ah. Will the video(s) go up on youtube to watch afterwards, not sure I can watch the whole thing
[22:03] <KT5TK-UK> Where in Greenwich are you?
[22:03] <LeoBodnar> Prediction and existing path are forming some strange object for B-11
[22:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh nmo I can see it coming ......
[22:05] <mfa298> Bo_DK: I'd started looking through some of your code. I had a couple of quick thoughts.
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[22:05] <Bo_DK> Upu.. of course... was forgetting the habamp... Q bout that one... whould it be a problem to mount a BBB, ublox and dongle in same box?
[22:05] <Bo_DK> mfa298: shoot
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[22:05] <mfa298> Firstly it would help a lot if the lines were shorter (maybe move the comments onto their own line)
[22:05] <Bo_DK> mfa298: it was just a very rough hack
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[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK: You probably want to consider seperately shielding the BBB
[22:05] <Bo_DK> mfa298: and a quick one
[22:05] <mfa298> the second is that you need to think about how you want to do this. I can see two sensible options.
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> Lol Geoff-G8DHE
[22:06] <Upu> I can't decode from odenwald
[22:06] <Bo_DK> SpeedEvil: any reason? just nice to know....
[22:06] <mfa298> The first option would be to write your servo code as a seperate piece that interfaces to hab rotate in the same way that habrotate currently expectes (so make minimal changes to habrotate)
[22:07] <WillTablet> Oh god I have to chose my options this year.
[22:07] <Upu> KT5TK we are going to the venue on Friday afternoon to setup then going to somewhere
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK: RFI from the BBB in the 400MHz band
[22:07] <Upu> dunno where yet
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> 433
[22:07] <Upu> for food and drinks
[22:07] <mfa298> The other option is start from scratch using the few parts of habrotate that are useful (i.e. don't start off with the habrotate code)
[22:07] <WillTablet> Might do computing, if I can.
[22:08] <Bo_DK> mfa298: will pick option 1
[22:08] <mfa298> what you currently have is a horrible mess that isn't going to work well, there are bits of code you've tried removing but they're still required by other parts of the code.
[22:08] <Bo_DK> mfa298: purely to beeing total new to python
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[22:08] <Bo_DK> why i have not removed .... just commented out
[22:09] <mfa298> option 1 isn't necessarily easier as you'll have to write the bits that talk to servos in a way that habrotate currently understands
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[22:09] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K-V8ZWyNMs
[22:09] <KT5TK-UK> Upu: Ah, ok. What time is setup?
[22:09] <mfa298> the idea for option 1 is that you make almost no changes to habrotate - possibly the only change you do is an enhancment to allow it to get it position from gps *or* static config/
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> (not advocating, I like the tune)
[22:10] <Bo_DK> mfa298: starting from scratch is also impossible for me.... or yes possible fis i have a few years
[22:10] <Upu> we are meeting here : http://binged.it/13aE8o6 about 3pm
[22:10] <mfa298> and if you're using that method you really should use git and github so you can fork the code easily and then any enhancments you make can be put back into habrotate
[22:10] <Upu> on the meridian :)
[22:10] <Bo_DK> SpeedEvil: very valid reason :-D
[22:11] <mfa298> Bo_DK: the way you are currently doing it will be messy, unmaintainable and horrid and you'll probably struggle to get anyone to help with it.
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[22:11] <Bo_DK> mfa298: but its the only way i just understand a bit
[22:12] <smrtz> eroomde: You still here?
[22:12] <Bo_DK> mfa298: and i'm not that naive that i get someone to do the whole thing for me
[22:12] <KT5TK-UK> Noted. If I have a chance to make it, I'll be there. If not, don't wait for me.
[22:12] <Upu> nps :)
[22:12] <Upu> if we aren't there
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[22:13] <mfa298> Bo_DK: python isn't hard to learn and if you go for option 2 you should learn stuff quickly.
[22:13] <Upu> we'll be up at the university
[22:13] <Bo_DK> mfa298: depends on how good you are at learing.... i just stink worse than a skunk
[22:13] <mfa298> you'll also understand how *all* the code works and that is *very* important
[22:14] Action: WillTablet wisely nods
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[22:14] <Bo_DK> mfa298: but yes... if starting from scratch it will be very easy to understand for weeks.... no code will be made
[22:14] <mfa298> the key to writing code is to start with a very high level idea (I need something that can work out where I am) and then break that down into simple tasks (I can get that from the GPGGA NMEA sentence by grabbing these fields)
[22:14] <Bo_DK> i'm that dumb at coding
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[22:16] <mfa298> to be brutally honest if you really are that bad at coding you're going to struggle whatever way you do it. But at least if you start from scratch you'll know what your code is doing.
[22:16] <Bo_DK> i'm far worse
[22:16] <smrtz> What's a good USA vendor for balloons?
[22:17] <Upu> I don't think you have much in the way of choice over there
[22:17] <Upu> Scientific Sales I believe
[22:17] <smrtz> Upu: that's what I was afraid of. Thanks
[22:17] <mfa298> and if (as I think) that code is using multiple threads you've got a whole extra layer of stuff to understand - which you really don't want
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[22:17] <Upu> http://www.scientificsales.com/Meteorological-Weather-Sounding-Balloon-s/25.htm
[22:18] <Bo_DK> Upu the habamp... 1090 version... what extra would that give an automatic decoder and tracker?
[22:18] <Bo_DK> sorry for asking a sure well know Q
[22:18] <Upu> 1090 is for ADS-B
[22:18] <Upu> not balloon tracking
[22:18] <Bo_DK> ok
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[22:19] <Bo_DK> mfa298: its just that many in hear think its SO easy etc etc.... just not for me... i'm more the hardware guy
[22:20] <Bo_DK> but i have loads of ideas on what i want the code to do in end
[22:20] <Bo_DK> just not the means to put it in work from scratch
[22:20] <Bo_DK> i have always needed to rely on hacking bits together
[22:20] <mfa298> Bo_DK: if you've got any gps module you can use on the BBB (even a USB one) you might like to start with simple code that just gets your GPS location. Then add to it so that it calculates the bearing and elevation for a static lat/long/alt. Then maybe grab flight data from habitat and get it to point at the launch location for a flight
[22:21] <Bo_DK> i was about to order a ublox....
[22:21] <Bo_DK> boards to mount on are on the way from china
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[22:22] <mfa298> Bo_DK: The biggest hurdle for writing good code is approaching it the right way. And currently I think you're making two mistakes, firstly you're trying to bodge stuff together, and secondly I don't think you have a clear & detailed plan of what you're doing.
[22:22] <Bo_DK> mfa298: some truth in that.... but also have my reasons
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[22:23] <Bo_DK> boding code yes.... WHy? i know no other method.... from scratch i will never get off the ground...
[22:23] <mfa298> bodging code together without *really* understanding it leads to nasty, bloated, unmangable code
[22:23] <Bo_DK> might not have a clear plan of what i do.... but i know what i want to do
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Starting out with an actual written down plan helps
[22:24] <Bo_DK> habrotate i understand
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Even if you're bad at the actual coding bit
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Especially when you need to come back to it in two weeks
[22:24] <mfa298> do you really understand habrotate in real detail
[22:24] <Bo_DK> SpeedEvil: have a plan... i can tell you what i want
[22:24] <Bo_DK> mfa298: not deep... but i can follow what the code does
[22:24] <mfa298> so if I asked you exactly what one of the procedures does you could answer it
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> Actually writing it down usually helps to find weak spots, or things you've missed
[22:25] <Bo_DK> mfa298: i think i can answer... but not if i answer correct
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[22:26] <mfa298> if you're using the code you need to understand it in detail. If you don't understand it in detail you *WILL* have problems.
[22:26] <Bo_DK> mfa298: not will have... i allready have them
[22:26] <mfa298> exactly!
[22:27] <mfa298> this is why I say you're going about it the wrong way.
[22:27] <Bo_DK> there are 2 ways i can do it on my own:
[22:27] <Bo_DK> 1. try the way i do now....
[22:27] <Bo_DK> 2. ditch the whole project
[22:27] <Bo_DK> simple as that
[22:28] <Bo_DK> i DONT have the big brains for writing code
[22:28] <mfa298> I would highly recommend the 3rd way. Start off with something basic and build it up.
[22:28] <Bo_DK> there was only 2 ways
[22:28] <mfa298> There's another really good reason for this third way.
[22:28] <Bo_DK> not a 3rd
[22:28] <Bo_DK> if i should put in a 3rd it would be that somebody else did the code
[22:29] <mattbrejza> youre not gonna find all the bits of code you need already written
[22:29] <mfa298> With the first way you're suggesting you'll be hacking it about for several weeks with it probably never being in a state of working in any way. In that scenario you won't know if your on the right track or if what you're doing is going to work
[22:30] <mfa298> start small, build up and you should always have something that does something. Initially it might only be getting sentences from a gps but it does something.
[22:30] <mfa298> If you start small like that the next step might be that you get your lat and long from the gps. again you see progress
[22:31] <Bo_DK> Q: you think i'm not as stupid as i say?
[22:31] <Bo_DK> why is it that hard to belive?
[22:33] <mfa298> The two key skills I'd suggest you need for writing code. 1) The desire to do it, 2) having a brain that can look at the problem and break it down into suitable smaller problems.
[22:33] <Bo_DK> 1... check
[22:34] <Bo_DK> 2. shit
[22:34] <mfa298> You have 1. and if you're a hardware guy and have designed reasonable sized bits of electronics then you have 2
[22:34] <Bo_DK> nope
[22:34] <Bo_DK> you think i have done the hardware from scratch?
[22:34] <mfa298> it's the same skill for designing bits of electronics of any engineered solution
[22:34] <mfa298> you said you're a hardware guy.
[22:35] <Bo_DK> yeah... the hardware are hacks too
[22:36] <mfa298> In that case if you want to write the code yourself I think the first thing you need to do is write down in detail the process that your code needs to do.
[22:36] <mfa298> ignore any actual code, just the processes it needs to do
[22:37] <Bo_DK> that should be doable... depending on detail level
[22:37] <mfa298> start fairly basic and then add detail later.
[22:38] <mfa298> For a balloon payload I'd probably start off with two lines:
[22:38] <mfa298> get data from gps
[22:38] <mfa298> send data vai radio
[22:38] <Bo_DK> no payload
[22:38] <Bo_DK> itsa ground tracker
[22:38] <mfa298> I'd then add more detail to them about what I get from the gps and how
[22:38] <mfa298> Bo_DK: I know your doing someinth else. That's an example for something I know.
[22:39] <Bo_DK> ohhh
[22:39] <Bo_DK> ok then
[22:39] <Bo_DK> but first on my list is to install gpsd and have that get gps data
[22:39] <Bo_DK> then my code gets data from there
[22:39] <mfa298> after a day or two I'd hope to have a page of so of detail about how I'm going to try and get the data from gps, and how it's processed
[22:40] <mfa298> Bo_DK: at this point you ignore all code and software.
[22:40] <mfa298> you just need to understand the processes you code needs to do
[22:41] <Bo_DK> i just try to think at a level i understand myself...for gps i just know blocks... ie hardware... gpsd....
[22:41] <Bo_DK> ie the flow
[22:42] <Bo_DK> getting the gps data off the module etc i dont want to bother my brain with since there are allready done software for it
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[22:42] <mfa298> write the detailed notes first. We can deal with things like gpsd later.
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[22:43] <Bo_DK> mfa298: will do....
[22:43] <Bo_DK> just a goggle doc or is there batter ways?
[22:44] <mfa298> google doc is probably as good as anything at this point.
[22:44] <Bo_DK> would be happy to add peeps with edit rights if need be
[22:45] <Bo_DK> think i might have something to start up on... ie ideas for software... can just move that down and start on top of page
[22:45] <Bo_DK> was just about to get stuff from Upu....
[22:46] <Bo_DK> as SpeedEvil said BBB would interfere with habamp if not shielded
[22:46] <Bo_DK> but the default hammond box for habamp does not seem to have a wheaterseal
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> I said it might
[22:48] <Bo_DK> better be safe....
[22:48] <Bo_DK> at any rate it has to work outside
[22:49] <Bo_DK> might go for naked version and get a box with a seal in it
[22:50] <mfa298> a lot of that is stuff you'll need to experiment with once you've got some hardware.
[22:50] <mfa298> you might also find that the BBB interferes with the gps.
[22:50] <Bo_DK> yes....
[22:50] <WillTablet> Bo_DK I had problems with the BBB interfering with the ubloc
[22:51] <WillTablet> *ublox
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[22:51] <WillTablet> I've yet to do the shielding tests.
[22:51] <mfa298> but so far there's only two sets of experience of that. One where there were problems (as WillTablet just said) and one where it's not been an issue
[22:51] <Bo_DK> WillTablet: how far off was the antenna?
[22:51] <WillTablet> I can't sleep :-(
[22:51] <Bo_DK> WillTablet: same here
[22:52] <Bo_DK> Q is if it was because the antenna was to close to BBB
[22:52] <Bo_DK> i plan on an external
[22:52] <Bo_DK> and board has 2 ground planes
[22:52] <WillTablet> I have school tomorrow. First day back at that shithole.
[22:53] <Bo_DK> withublox on the side away from BBB
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[22:54] <WillTablet> Hmm
[22:54] <WillTablet> I best (try and) sleep.
[22:54] <WillTablet> Really don't want to go back to school
[22:54] <Bo_DK> hehe... i was just told same from my partner
[22:55] <Bo_DK> WillTablet: as student or teacher?
[22:55] <WillTablet> Student, obvs
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[22:55] <Bo_DK> hehe...i have heard teachers say schools are a shithole too
[22:56] <WillTablet> I say that but ibanezmatt13 thought I had a uni degree.
[22:56] <WillTablet> I'm in year 9 (as of tomorrow), that's ages 13-14
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[22:57] <WillTablet> It's the extreme Catholicism that irritates me
[22:58] <Bo_DK> i understand.... relegion is pure bullshit to me
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[22:58] <Bo_DK> Upu... problem with your shop... in denmark we dont have Region / State
[22:58] <Bo_DK> Fyn is name of island i live on....
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: what lipo cells are you using?
[22:59] <Bo_DK> but not a region nor a state
[22:59] <LeoBodnar> Some random ones - generic RC single cells
[22:59] <arko> LeoBodnar: do the predictions show either of the B's returning to the uk?
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> ah
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> i saw this http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/lithium-polymer-battery-110mah-p-778.html
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> seems to have a lower temperature rating than normal
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> what capacity are you flying?
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> 190 and 110
[23:01] <WillTablet> 110mah is tiny isn't it?
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> well, they are cool components
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:01] <mfa298> lol
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> B-11 out of range?
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> we need to use the rx on the silabs
[23:02] <WillTablet> Couldn't run a tracker off that surely?
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> 110 is small, yes
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> then we can mesh network a picoballoon cluster
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> sure
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I was planning to do that but got distracted :)
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> 110mah is good for half amp pulses
[23:02] <mfa298> Bo_DK: I'm heading off shortly pm me a link to whatever you write and I'll try and look tomorrow (got a few other things to do as well so it might be later in the day)
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> easily. at least at normal temps
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[23:05] <Bo_DK> mfa298: ... link in pm
[23:05] <mfa298> I saw.
[23:05] <WillTablet> ¿Do these use rtty? http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/radio-telemetry-europe-p-1186.html
[23:05] <mfa298> you need some detail in it now!
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[23:05] <Laurenceb_> iirc eroomde and navrac have tried doing rx
[23:06] <WillTablet> Oh
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> you tend to pick up a lot of noise from the ground
[23:06] <WillTablet> It is basica
[23:06] <WillTablet> l
[23:06] <WillTablet> Ly just an overp
[23:06] <WillTablet> Riced ntc
[23:06] <WillTablet> Ntc2
[23:06] <Bo_DK> mfa298: is sleep ok?
[23:06] <WillTablet> You know what I mean :-)
[23:06] <mfa298> I think the people that have done uplinks have used several watts of power on the ground side.
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> if you put an LNA and SAW filter on the rx side you may have some luck
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> iirc navrac got 57km range
[23:07] <mfa298> which requires a radio license and might be into greyer areas of being legal
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[23:07] <Laurenceb_> i got mesh networking working with si4432
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> ported some arduino code to stm32 and got it talking to the si4432
[23:07] <mfa298> Bo_DK: I'm assuming you sleep at some point - that's what I should be doing
[23:08] <Bo_DK> anyway Upu got a bit rich'er
[23:08] <Bo_DK> mfa298: if i dont go to bed within 5 mins it will cost me a new keyboard and some knocked out teeth
[23:11] <Bo_DK> mfa298: but need to be up at 8am.... new stove delivered
[23:11] <Bo_DK> so will prop start at that point and add the way i have in mind the code should work....
[23:11] <Bo_DK> might look like puke to start with
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> What stack?
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[23:23] <Laurenceb_> nothing on globaltners?
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> wonder if the station in Switzerland would pick anything up
[23:25] <LeoBodnar> Nothing, can't hear B-11 either
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> odd
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19848/musks-hyperloop-math-doesnt-add-up/
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> tho the technical maths is the most flawed bit...
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[23:45] <LeoBodnar> Going to bed. Nothing left to rx :)
[23:45] <LeoBodnar> good night!
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[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: true
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> they seem to be exaggerating a little in that article
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> about the capacity problem
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> but there is a ood point to be made
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> you can't scale air based hovercraft stuff by making the vehicles longer
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[23:49] <Laurenceb_> as you tend to run out of air
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> unless you suck it in the sides, but it all gets messy
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> inductrack just scales nicely
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[23:49] <Laurenceb_> more capacity = longer vehicles
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> yeah. lots of Lutz.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> litz
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> nope
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> lots of embossed alu foil
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> tons cheaper
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[23:52] <Laurenceb_> costs a fraction of the price of the tube
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> And with the purported design - you could I think just use variable aspect ratio turbine blades - and brake that way
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> ooh b11 is back
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> maybe...
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: ah - you're sacrificing the startup speed?
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> you can use plasma pantograph things for power
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[23:53] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be a proven concept
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> and works way better at low pressure, then you stick a induction motor on the vehicle
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> startup = indutrack liftoff
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> you use wheels for that
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[23:54] <Laurenceb_> so the track is dumb alu foil laminate stuff
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> It does seem an oddly unfleshed out proposal
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[23:54] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall a paper on indutrack going into why litz was needed
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> Seemed to make sense at the time
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> i actually took the trouble to simulate pumpdown of a concrete tube
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> Just noticed DD5FX appeared in Germany and picked up B-11
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> Well done
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> result - its hard to get down to pressure
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: paint the inside
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> but once its down it stays there, so praying the inside with something helps
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah - you only need to reduce the porotisy, not the permiability
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> ithout paint stuff comes out of the pores for ages, which is annoying
[23:56] <Laurenceb_> but otherwise it works fine
[23:56] <Laurenceb_> about £400/meter
[23:56] <Laurenceb_> for tube + track + overhead rails
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: well - you can paint it with a thin coat of vacuum epoxy
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> for overkill
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> its pretty much off the shelf and the vehicle is just dumb permanent magnet array with some linear motor coils put in there
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> or just pva glue
[23:58] <SpeedEvil> PVA glue - does sticky-back plastic have a role?
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> i dunno
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> also this: http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/21/meet-the-original-hyperloop-for-rocks/
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> interesting tube material - glass fibre concrete - i didnt know that existed
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[23:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah - i've been trying to work out how to make slabs of it easily
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> vacuum?
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> then pressure cycle it
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> possibly
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> mixing concrete in vacuum seems interesting
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Well - low presure steam
[00:00] --- Wed Sep 4 2013