highaltitude.log.20130901

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[00:41] <zs260> hi newbie here from the US& great guide at http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide, wondering if the US radio regulations almost similar (or at least won't block) if i follow it to build tracking setup to be used in US? also are there "kits" that i can purchase?
[00:43] <fsphil> I don't believe 434mhz is license-exempt in the US
[00:43] <fsphil> you'd need an amateur license to transmit there
[00:43] <fsphil> though it's not hard to get one
[00:44] <fsphil> you've also a pretty good APRS network there (in most places in the US anyway)
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> isn't there a very close radio band though?
[00:44] <fsphil> it's also an amateur radio thing
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> and yes - APRS is a very viable alternative often
[00:44] <fsphil> I think the nearest is 900mhz?
[00:46] <zs260> reading up on APRS& wasn't aware. thanks for pointing me there.
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[06:41] <jcoxon> morning all
[06:41] <craag> morning!
[06:48] <x-f> morning
[06:56] <daveake> morning
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[07:12] <Upu> morning
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[07:35] <radim_OM2AMR_> morning Upu, ji did ping yesterday but I was asleep after 36 hours avake :-)
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[07:35] <Upu> lol nps
[07:35] <Upu> congrats on that altitude
[07:35] <Upu> impressive
[07:36] <Upu> how heavy was payload ?
[07:36] <radim_OM2AMR_> Thank you :-) 150 grams
[07:36] <Upu> double wow
[07:36] <eroomde> yes congrats!
[07:36] <eroomde> good flight
[07:36] <Upu> 1600g Hwoyee H2 ?
[07:37] <radim_OM2AMR_> thank you gus !
[07:37] <radim_OM2AMR_> yes
[07:37] <radim_OM2AMR_> guys...
[07:37] <Upu> I think they have their mojo back
[07:38] <radim_OM2AMR_> I see that H1600 bursting 3km higher than I calculated
[07:39] <Upu> indeed
[07:39] <Upu> did Vie team receive their RFM22B's in time ?
[07:39] <radim_OM2AMR_> only the one from first attempt of STS-6 bursted at 28km
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[07:40] <Upu> there are the sort of altitudes they were bursting at when Ron Meadows did that 3 day transatlantic
[07:40] <radim_OM2AMR_> no, they didn't, but I had spare RFM for them, so no problem :-) we reworked failed RFM before launch
[07:40] <Upu> damn
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[07:43] <radim_OM2AMR_> no problem Upu at all, Erwin orderer spare in the last moment from you
[07:43] <Upu> should have got there in time
[07:43] <Upu> silly post office
[07:43] <Upu> and silly mail for Austria going via Germany
[07:44] <Upu> left the UK on Tuesday and didn't hit Germany until Friday
[07:44] <Upu> must have gone by priority donkey
[07:44] <radim_OM2AMR_> yes I know. So another experience for VIE team, have some spares prepared.
[07:44] <eroomde> i love the idea of priority donkey
[07:44] <Upu> :)
[07:45] <eroomde> i quite want to have that available as a shipping option
[07:45] <Upu> lol
[07:45] <radim_OM2AMR_> :-D
[07:45] <eroomde> Anthony! I need 10 Ublox's ASAP - send your best donkey!
[07:45] <eroomde> we'll find DM has been using them all along
[07:48] <radim_OM2AMR_> Upu, the only fail with STS-6 was, that I didn't request for flight doc, so we don't have receiver stats and telepemtry export, but I hope it's no problem
[07:48] <radim_OM2AMR_> ohh, I will throw this keyboard away..
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[08:52] <sinaptik> Hello, I'm trying to source some helium for my balloon, could someone tell me if 160USD for a 1.3m3 cylinder is a reasonable price?
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[09:01] <daveake> too much money and too little gas
[09:01] <daveake> In UK it's 150USD for 3.6m3
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[09:02] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[09:02] <sinaptik> daveake: is that including the cylinder rental?
[09:03] <daveake> Yep 1 month
[09:03] <sinaptik> hmmm, do you also require a regulator?
[09:03] <daveake> and the valve/regulator rental
[09:03] <sinaptik> ah
[09:03] <daveake> Also, have you calculated how much gas you actually need?
[09:04] <sinaptik> 2.38m3
[09:05] <sinaptik> cylinder sizings are: A 0.49m3, D 1.3m3, F 4.23m3, G 6.4m3
[09:05] <sinaptik> so I was thinking two D's
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[09:06] <sinaptik> but for 330USD, that's a bit of money
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[09:07] <chrisstubbs> This would be awesome for HAB http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/my-diy-ground-control-station
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[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[09:07] <chrisstubbs> Hi matt
[09:08] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Chris, I'm all set to send v3 off but I'm unsure about that SD card
[09:09] <chrisstubbs> Unsure about connections or soldering it?
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> connections :/
[09:09] <chrisstubbs> join.me?
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> yeah sure, one sec
[09:11] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: https://secure.join.me/596-689-136
[09:11] <chrisstubbs> blergh windows 8
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's ok
[09:13] <chrisstubbs> I think thats okay too
[09:13] <chrisstubbs> I dodnt use any resistors
[09:13] <chrisstubbs> but looking online some people do
[09:14] <chrisstubbs> not sure if they put the resistors in series so it will work with a 5v arduino though
[09:14] <chrisstubbs> leave them on
[09:14] <chrisstubbs> if you have a problem
[09:14] <chrisstubbs> bridge the resistors with solder
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks chrisstubbs
[09:15] <chrisstubbs> No worries :)
[09:16] <ibanezmatt13> I gotta go catch a train, see you later :)
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[09:19] <ike> hi there
[09:19] <ike> how much does cost HAB balloon itself
[09:19] <chrisstubbs> hello ike
[09:19] <ike> without He
[09:20] <chrisstubbs> Most of us buy our ballopons from http://randomsolutions.co.uk/
[09:20] <ike> only "condom" itself
[09:20] <chrisstubbs> You can use http://habhub.org/calc/ to work out what size balloon you need
[09:20] <chrisstubbs> aim for just over 5m/s ascent
[09:22] <ike> Result (configuration suggests a possible floater) - is that good or bad?
[09:22] <chrisstubbs> Are you planning to recover your payload when it lands?
[09:22] <craag> That probably means your ascent rate is too low.
[09:22] <ike> btw chrisstubbs thx for links
[09:22] <ike> Result (configuration suggests a possible floater)
[09:22] <ike> Burst Altitude:40000 mAscent Rate:3.01 m/sTime to Burst:221 minNeck Lift:505 gVolume:2.44 m32441 L86.2 ft3
[09:23] <chrisstubbs> Yeah your ascent rate is a little low
[09:23] <chrisstubbs> delete the target burst altitude and put 5 in the ascent rate box
[09:23] <chrisstubbs> then scroll throught he balloons until you find one that gives you the altitude you want
[09:23] <chrisstubbs> or shave some weight off your payload
[09:25] <ike> what is the maximul Altitude for this kind of balloon?
[09:25] <chrisstubbs> the world record is about 44,000m
[09:25] <chrisstubbs> so if you have loads of money for a big balloon and lots of helium, about that!
[09:26] <ike> I can broke it, with 2 balloons? one that will go to 40km and second with less He that will go higher
[09:26] <ike> about helium, isn't H2 better?
[09:26] <chrisstubbs> h2 is much cheaper yes, but comes with its risks
[09:27] <chrisstubbs> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[09:27] <craag> H2 is better for altitude as well, but do read the wiki on the safety guidelines.
[09:27] <ike> what is I made it on site with diesel generator?
[09:27] <craag> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[09:27] <craag> electrolysis?
[09:27] <craag> You won't get nearly enough
[09:28] <craag> And it'll be far more expensive than just buying some.
[09:29] <chrisstubbs> ike where are you from?
[09:29] <ike> bulgaria
[09:30] <chrisstubbs> Ah okay, no idea if we have any bulgarian HABbers on here
[09:30] <chrisstubbs> A post on the mailing list may get you in touch with someone nearby
[09:31] <ike> there are here
[09:31] <ike> I've seen their site and they said that they are here
[09:32] <chrisstubbs> Ah great, they should be able to give you some info on what gas they use and where they buy it
[09:33] <craag> Do you have a name for them?
[09:35] <ike> http://www2.cs.man.ac.uk/~popovr8/tiny/01.html
[09:36] <x-f> lz1dev is from Bulgaria, he's ocasionally here
[09:36] <x-f> yes, that's him
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[09:45] <mikestir> ublox question - is airborne 1G still the recommended dynamic model as shown in the wiki? Is there any risk of hitting the 100 m/s vertical speed limit on descent?
[09:45] <mikestir> ted was pushing that, for example
[09:45] <Upu> I think dynamic model 6 is the suggested one
[09:45] <Upu> its unlikely to exceed 100m/s veritcally
[09:46] <Upu> and even if it does it relocks fairly quickly
[09:46] <mikestir> yeah that's the 1G one. ok I just wanted to make sure that was still current advice
[09:47] <x-f> STS-6 yesterday reported 150-165 m/s shortly after burst
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[09:49] <ike> do you know "floater" how long will stay ... in the sky? 24h? a week? a month?
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[09:50] <daveake> hours or days. varies
[09:50] <daveake> 1 day seems common
[09:51] <ike> what should I do if I want to stay for 1 week at 30 000m?
[09:52] <craag> afaik it's only the american superpressures balloons that have managed that.
[09:52] <daveake> Make a balloon. Latex won't do it.
[09:53] <craag> What was the material that was in the 'history of superpressure balloons' at last years talk? By Dan I think?
[09:53] <daveake> There are other issues - how to track it given that it'll be 1000s of km away, and how to keep it powered for that long
[09:54] <daveake> Yeah Dan is the man for this
[09:54] <ike> like this "36” Qualatex silver “foil” balloon - used for “pico” SuperPressure flights." but way more bigger?
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[09:55] <craag> That could be one way.
[09:55] <craag> But it's not really a project for an individual
[09:55] <craag> Google is struggling to do it with their 'Loon' project
[09:57] <craag> Conditions are incredibly harsh, and change drastically from day to night.
[09:59] <x-f> speaking of last year's talk - was watching it last night and noticed daveake's suggestion - http://i.imgur.com/bCPbguC.png :)
[09:59] <craag> hahahahaha
[10:00] <craag> nobody listens to dave
[10:00] <ike> 10x guys
[10:00] <ike> bye
[10:00] <jcoxon> i think he might take that back now
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[10:02] <daveake> x-f haha :-)
[10:02] <daveake> That was for darkside :)
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[10:05] <jcoxon> not been much Oz ballooning recently
[10:05] <daveake> No, he wa saying it's about time they did some more
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[10:05] <jcoxon> i want them to do an Oz to NZ flight
[10:06] <daveake> That'd be cool
[10:06] <daveake> About time fsphil sent another over to us
[10:09] <mfa298> maybe the Pi line should just change from "Don't" to "Do something new"
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[10:14] <Darkside> jcoxon: heh
[10:14] <Darkside> maybe
[10:14] <LeoBodnar> I want to do 1 week at 30k as well, what do I need? XD
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> Maybe go to 45k then descend to 30k and stay there for a week or two.
[10:15] <jcoxon> Darkside, the winds can do it
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[10:19] <AdamDynamic> I'm trying to create a Arduino shield for my GPS tracker, when wiring the NTX2 up on perfboard, should I connect the 'GND' pin to the digital ground or the power ground? Does it matter?
[10:21] <Darkside> dosn't matter
[10:22] <AdamDynamic> When I used to build guitar pedals I'm sure someone once told me that mixing the digital and power ground can degrade the quality of the signal?
[10:22] <AdamDynamic> (Otherwise, why have different grounds at all?)
[10:23] <daveake> They're wired together just connect to the closest one
[10:23] <AdamDynamic> Ah ok, cool. Thanks.
[10:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Depends how much noise there is on the ground lines, check with old batteries!
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[10:25] <mfa298> one difference you might get is that the tracks for the digital ground are more carefully routed (important for higher speed) signals but I'd expect them to both be connected together somewhere
[10:25] <daveake> You have separate grounds to keep large/spiky digital currents away from analog signals, but I really doubt there's a noticeable difference on the Arduino
[10:25] <mfa298> on the NTX2 the 0V in is Power Ground and Digital Ground.
[10:26] <AdamDynamic> Also, on this guide: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2, am I correct in thinking that the 'GPIO' tag goes to pin 13 on the Uno and the VCC arrows both go to 5v?
[10:27] <mfa298> Audio stuff does sometimes do interesting things with the ground connections as over long cable runs (stage to FoH mixer) the ground potentials can vary which leads extra noise (mains hum)
[10:28] <daveake> On an Uno, both to 5V
[10:28] <daveake> GPIO is any GPIO pin you like
[10:29] <mfa298> The code as written uses pin 13 but you can easily change that
[10:29] <AdamDynamic> Is there are reason that there are two VCC arrows at all? Seems you could join them together via the 4k7 resistor to the EN/VCC connection?
[10:29] <daveake> Pin 13 has the LED on it, which you might want to use for something else
[10:29] <daveake> sorry GPIO 13
[10:30] <AdamDynamic> I'm happy using pin 13, just wanted to check it was the GPIO tag that needed to go there :)
[10:30] <daveake> If you're running from a processor that has 3.3V logic, then the Vcc on the right needs to go to 3.3V but the one on the left could go to a 5V line (reducing load on the 3.3V line)
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[10:32] <AdamDynamic> This might sound like a 'beginner question' (because I am one :) but I'm assuming the Uno doesn't have that?
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[10:38] <mfa298> AdamDynamic: I think your ok with treating both VCC connections the same (I've not used arduinos)
[10:38] <mfa298> the different VCC gets used more with the pi
[10:41] <G4AIU-Eugene> quit
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[11:43] <Steve_2e0vet> any "eagle" experts around
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[12:30] <Laurenceb_> hi all
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> hi
[12:32] Action: SpeedEvil is amazed at the battery use of the new nexus 7.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> 48h on dim screen with fbreader.
[12:33] <craag> Yeah I streamed Radio 1 over wifi with the screen on most of yesterday, got home, 51% left!
[12:33] <daveake> I'm amazed
[12:33] <daveake> Radio 1 ???!??!
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> heh
[12:34] <daveake> Be a blessing if the battery died :p
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Would be 80% on R4
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> whats happening with B11?
[12:34] <craag> My colleagues in the office don't like my usual music tastes..
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Only regression is the more slippery back.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> where slippery is slightly more
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> No butane on this one just yet
[12:35] <Laurenceb_> a solar relaunch?
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> yes, with probably more lift
[12:35] <Laurenceb_> ah, cool
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[12:42] <mikestir> is there any reason not to use the max6 in eco mode?
[12:45] <LeoBodnar> If you have spare power then no.
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[13:00] <Iain_G4SGX> I see the MAX6 i used for my proto is no longer available. Does anyone know if I can just swap for the 1.8V MAX7 without changing any comms code? I see the footprint is the same.
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[13:01] <craag> Iain_G4SGX: It's pretty much identical drop-in
[13:02] <craag> You won't have to change anything.
[13:02] <Iain_G4SGX> cool..tnx..
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[13:11] <Laurenceb_> is B-11 launching today?
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[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon :)
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[13:40] <craag> Laurenceb_: I believe so..
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[13:42] <jcoxon> can i clear the tracker?
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[13:47] <LeoBodnar> yes jcoxon
[13:48] <jcoxon> cool cool
[13:48] <jcoxon> clear
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[13:50] <jcoxon> might have a listen for B11
[13:50] <WillDuckworth> is there a 'test' mode tracker at all? i know it was mooted awhile ago - but did anything happen with it?
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[13:53] <jcoxon> no, no test mode
[13:53] <craag> Would be a good idea with the amount of payloads around now.
[13:53] <craag> Perhaps with a 24h autoclear on it
[13:54] <jcoxon> indeed
[13:54] <craag> Might also encourage some people to test their payload docs before flying :P
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[14:04] <Brew> Hi Daveake, congrats for all the press on TED
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[14:10] <Steve_2e0vet> anyone know about Yaesu data cables?
[14:11] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: I've used a few,
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[14:12] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, I have a "BOX" that i used to use for data modes it has serial radio and audio, but the data pin for the radio is connected to 9600 not 1200 would that cause a problem?
[14:13] <mfa298> if it's on the 9600 pin of the 6pin mini-din I don't think you'll get suitable output.
[14:13] <Steve_2e0vet> yes its on the 9600
[14:13] <mfa298> I think that's designed for 9600bd packet on FM and taps somewhere else in the audio path
[14:14] <mfa298> been a while since I tried anything with that pin but I think the level is much lower - and possibly not of much use
[14:14] <Steve_2e0vet> it was packet i used but with the radio set to "DIGI" mode, not sure if that is something specific to the FT857
[14:14] <Steve_2e0vet> wire cutters out!!
[14:17] <mfa298> I think some of the digi modes are based on FM and something else is based on USB/LSB - been a while since I've checked. I've usually just used USB for RTTY and FM for the occasional 2m packet.
[14:17] <mfa298> that's all on the 817
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[14:17] <Steve_2e0vet> i've chopped the wires off the box now, i didnt like it anyway it always played up
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[14:20] Nick change: LeoBodnar_ -> LeoBodnar
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[14:25] <mc-> are there any launches today?
[14:25] <daveake> Brew Yeah it's all gone a bit mad!
[14:26] <daveake> Had 4 days of that till it settled down
[14:27] <Brew> That's all good though it was a good achievement I guess HAB doesn't get much air time generally
[14:27] <daveake> "air time" :p
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[14:28] <Willdude123> Hi.
[14:28] Nick change: mattbrejza_ -> mattbrejza
[14:28] <Willdude123> vatsim is cool.
[14:28] <craag> mc-: One might be coming up, B-11, foil float with solar.
[14:28] <Willdude123> Not sure how to test my tx though
[14:28] <daveake> I just wanted to get that video of teddy "jumping". It's the fact that it was also above Felix's altitude that has caused all the attention
[14:28] <Willdude123> Without anyone kicking me.
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> hah
[14:28] <Willdude123> heh
[14:29] <Willdude123> daveake, surely other people with teddy bears have done it before (higher than FB's alt)
[14:29] <daveake> One Austrian journo suggested it was faked. To quote Dad's Army "they don't like it up 'em" :)
[14:31] <mc-> I haven't been on highaltitude IRC for nearly 4 years....time flies
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[14:35] <Brew> daveake surely that has to be the mission for ted?
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[14:37] <mc-> daveake, how about doing a TED talk on ted?
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[14:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q ruined TED for me.
[14:46] <Laurenceb_> haha
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> onion talks
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[14:52] <LeoBodnar> Some people do other people talk
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[15:04] <chrisstubbs> ping Steve_2e0vet
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[15:27] <Laurenceb_> http://abload.de/img/stm32f429i-discomqswr.jpg
[15:27] Action: Laurenceb_ drooolllzz
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[15:28] <mattbrejza> can it run arduino?
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> haha
[15:30] <staylo> Any more details?
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> not really
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> other than price - $33
[15:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Are you flying tonight LeoBodnar ?
[15:31] <staylo> Nice
[15:31] <mattbrejza> amusingly an arduino board is also around $33
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> lolz
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[15:36] <Laurenceb_> 180MHz cortex m4f is slightly faster too
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[15:38] <Laurenceb_> someone got the F4discovery to boot linux using romfs
[15:39] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly busybox uses tons of ram
[15:39] <mattbrejza> http://hackaday.com/2012/03/28/building-the-worst-linux-pc-ever/ :P
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> but this has SDRAM interface so you can add more ram on a breakout
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats emulating arm
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> cheating
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> sounds like it shipping in October
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[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> Hi. I'm working on a GPS logger PCB for my Uncle and I'm wondering what battery would be ok for the job. He wants a Max 6, amtgea328, SD socket and GPS antenna - nothing more. I'm wondering whether a coin cell will do the trick. He wants it to last ideally for a few days. The obvious choice would be to step a AAA up to the needed voltage but I was wondering if I could get smaller
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> SD cards can be a little power hungry
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> That's what I'm thinking :/
[15:49] <Randomskk_> doubt a coin cell would last days
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> So it looks like a AAA
[15:49] <jcoxon> lipo?
[15:49] <mattbrejza> or even work at all
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> for a "few days" I would look at 2x AA's
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> ^^ or lipo
[15:49] <Randomskk_> a lipo seems a good option
[15:49] <jcoxon> if its not getting cold i'd go lipo
[15:49] <jcoxon> rechargable etc
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking of a lipo that I could charge/
[15:49] <mattbrejza> how big does it have to be?
[15:49] <mattbrejza> or small
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> err, as small as possible but the size of an iphone would be a good limit
[15:49] <mattbrejza> add a usb b socket to the pcb and a lipo charing IC
[15:49] <mattbrejza> charging*
[15:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Go for a small phone battery
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> yea, I'll have to work on how to charge it up. Never done a lipo charging circuit
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> no idea what's involved
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/jsp/common/flv.jsp?url=https://s3.amazonaws.com/st-videos/matlab.flv&width=576&height=324&title=MATLAB/Simulink%20design%20workflow%20for%20STM32F4
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> nooooooooooooooo
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk_: Looking at your wombat lipo circuitry, looks complex
[15:50] <Randomskk_> it's really not
[15:51] <Randomskk_> all you need is a 3v3 LDO
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> seriously?
[15:51] <mattbrejza> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/4002
[15:51] <Randomskk_> and if you want onboard charging circuitry, one more chip
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I need to charge it
[15:51] <Randomskk_> then add the max1551 or wahtever, as mattbrejza suggests ^
[15:51] <jcoxon> max1555
[15:52] <jcoxon> you definitely need the decoupling caps
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok so I need basically a max1555, some caps and an LDO?
[15:52] <mattbrejza> well you alreaddy had the LDO?
[15:52] <mattbrejza> thats nothing extra
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, would it make sense to get a 1.5 lipo and step the output up or is that futile?
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> 1.5v
[15:53] <Randomskk_> you can't get a 1.5v lipo
[15:53] <mattbrejza> good luck finding a 1.5V lipo
[15:53] <Randomskk_> cell voltage is 3.7v nominal
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> ah, ok
[15:53] <Randomskk_> and even if you could, it wouldn't make sense
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> so 3.7 into an LDO... done
[15:53] <Randomskk_> well 4.2 to 3.4V into an LDO
[15:54] <Randomskk_> and you should probably consider a low voltage cutoff at 3.4V
[15:54] <mattbrejza> if you want a sizable battery ive used this before http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lithium-rechargeable-battery-packs/6152472/
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> I think one of those phone batteries would be ok
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[15:55] <mattbrejza> they offen come with annyoing connectrors though
[15:55] <Joel_re> hey, sorry someone already mentioned this already
[15:55] <mattbrejza> get a LDO with low battery cutoff too
[15:55] <Joel_re> but I need to know, when sending the gps coordinates as DDMM.SS, DDDMM.SS
[15:56] <Joel_re> is that ok?
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[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok, are there any example schematics out there for this kind of thing? Anybody got any handy?
[15:56] <jcoxon> the datasheet as a good one
[15:56] <jcoxon> for the link that was posted
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll check it out
[15:56] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13: http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-ultimate-gps/overview
[15:56] <Joel_re> not sure if the schematics are posted
[15:56] <Joel_re> oh you need sdcard
[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> yep :)
[15:57] <mfa298> Joel_re: I think that if you want dl-fldigi to show distance, direction and elevation it needs to be decimal degrees, but habitat will cope with either version
[15:57] <mattbrejza> Joel_re: you can send the gps position in whatever is convient
[15:57] <Joel_re> ok
[15:58] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13: also note the globaltop gps modules can store days worth of data
[15:58] <Joel_re> s/store/log
[15:58] <Joel_re> internally
[15:58] <Joel_re> so you dont really need a sdcard with it
[15:58] <Joel_re> mtk3339
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> gotta run, tea
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the info
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[15:59] <mattbrejza> lol tea, i just had lunch
[16:00] <Joel_re> Im about to head for a late dinner :)
[16:01] <Joel_re> so if Im sending in gps data in the Degrees Minutes format
[16:01] <Joel_re> do I need to include N/S E/W ?
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> mc-: no
[16:01] <Joel_re> or how does that not matter
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Joel_re:
[16:01] <Joel_re> ok
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Northings >0 is norhtern hemisphere
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> and so on
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[16:49] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I just found out how useless I am at flying
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> haha, how come? :)
[16:49] <Willdude123> Are there any training servers?
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[16:49] <Willdude123> Well, I couldn't even set up ILS.
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> it's a real wake up call to the realism of flying
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> really?
[16:49] <Willdude123> On a 737. Something went wrong
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> standard 737?
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[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> Well, you find out the ILS frequency for the runway your setting up for, dial it into to say the NAV1 box on your radio panel. Then enter the runway heading as the course found on the MCP where you set the speed and altitude etc... Then when you're near the runway, press the APPR button (approach) and it'll get you established then bring you down on the G/S. Of course if you're too high it won't wor
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> k
[16:52] <LeoBodnar> B-11 is in the air. The whole place is overrun with bikes - it's MotoGP weekend. Trailers, campers, etc. Launchpad A is unuseable
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[16:53] <ibanezmatt13> however, I'm researching Li-Po charging ICs so I need to figure out the difference between a MCP73831 and a MAX1555
[16:53] <Willdude123_> Apologies internet cut out.
[16:53] <ibanezmatt13> ping Randomskk_
[16:53] <Willdude123_> Did you say anything?
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[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> <ibanezmatt13> Well, you find out the ILS frequency for the runway your setting up for, dial it into to say the NAV1 box on your radio panel. Then enter the runway heading as the course found on the MCP where you set the speed and altitude etc... Then when you're near the runway, press the APPR button (approach) and it'll get you established then bring you down on the G/S. Of course if you're too high it won't work
[16:54] <LeoBodnar> Didn't want to distract the bike race but...
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[16:54] <Willdude123_> Maybe I was too high
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> about 3000ft is fine
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> depends on the airport elevation really
[16:55] <LeoBodnar> Data is 434.500 MHz, DominoEX 16
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk_: So I'm looking at your LiPo circuit for Wombat and you used a MCP73831 as a charging controller IC. Is it worth me using that or the MAX1555? They look very similar really but the MCP73831 looks a little better in that you can get quite high current rates for charging the battery... https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Prototyping/Batteries/MCP73831T.pdf
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[16:56] <Willdude123_> Actually this doesn't work. Did you say you had a spare product key for some cessna?
[16:57] <Willdude123_> It's hard to read what the controls are actually for in default FSX planes
[16:57] Nick change: Willdude123_ -> Willdude123
[16:57] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll try and dig it out for you. I can't remember my login details :/
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[17:00] <Willdude123> I think most websites have a button for that.
[17:00] <Willdude123> Errr what's it called? Erm
[17:01] <Willdude123> "Forgot your login details?" maybe
[17:01] <Willdude123> :P
[17:01] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, What's MCP?
[17:02] <ibanezmatt13> It's the control panel where you have all the dials to set speed (IAS), heading, course, altitude, VS, and engage the A/P
[17:03] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: i can see the signal in soton
[17:04] <mattbrejza> not quite decdoing
[17:04] <jarod> http://78.129.167.24:9930/listen.pls 87.5 FM Amsterdam :D
[17:04] <jarod> trust me... high altitude :P
[17:05] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: there are loads of battery charger ics
[17:05] <mattbrejza> not much between them really
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[17:05] <mattbrejza> ive also used the max1811
[17:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hi all
[17:05] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is impressed
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[17:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> 1 Watt output @10MHz http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SP9UOB-10
[17:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://www.db0anf.de/app/aprs/stations/digiusage-SP9UOB-10
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'll stick with the MAX1555 mattbrejza. I'm quite confused as to what this charger IC actually does
[17:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> 300 baud APRS on HF
[17:06] <mattbrejza> to charge a lipo, when the battery voltage is low you have to cupply constant current to it
[17:06] <mattbrejza> then when its almost full you give it constant voltage
[17:06] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I don't think I'm ready for VATSIM.
[17:07] <mattbrejza> then detect when its full
[17:07] <Willdude123> I listened to some of the ATC.
[17:07] <Willdude123> Couldn't understand half of it.
[17:07] <mattbrejza> connecting 5V to a lipo and expect it to charge and be happy wont work
[17:07] <x-f> hi, Tom, nice recovery of the STS-4 with a quadcopter :)
[17:07] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Do you get kicked for starting on a runway?
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> only once
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: ok so it's basically like a vreg this thing?
[17:08] <mattbrejza> kinda, but a special one for charging lipos
[17:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: :-) it was 3rd try :-)
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'll read the datasheet
[17:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: only chainsaw left :-)
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: what's the general current rate for charging a lipo?
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[17:08] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[17:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: are You going to Conference ?
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> This thing only does 100mA, is that ok?
[17:09] <mattbrejza> choose a lipo and read the datasheet :)
[17:09] <mattbrejza> they have a max current generally
[17:09] <x-f> hehe :)
[17:09] <x-f> Tom, yess
[17:09] <x-f> -s
[17:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: it will be nice to shake Your hand
[17:10] <x-f> it will be my pleasure too
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: all these lipos are huge! They're all for RC planes and stuff
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[17:11] <mattbrejza> 'these lipos'?
[17:12] <mattbrejza> well what do you expect if (at a guess) youre looking on a rc site
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> "lipo battery" search results in amazon
[17:12] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[17:12] <mattbrejza> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lithium-rechargeable-battery-packs/6152472/
[17:12] <mattbrejza> howver rs is doing a farnell
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> Got B-11 in chelmsford :)
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> ping cm13g09
[17:14] <JDat> B-11 downlink freq?
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> 434.500 bang on
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> only every few mins though
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: they're still huge. I was expecting basically a phone battery
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[17:18] <darkstar-20011> I assume B-11 is using a vertical antenna?
[17:20] <jcoxon> its a 1/4 wave ground plane
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> looking for a decent Li-Po mattbrejza is like looking for water in the Sun
[17:21] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, have you looked on sparkfun?
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> sort of, not thorougholy
[17:21] <jcoxon> https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/54
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> I want something not too big like an RC Li-Po. Something like a phone battery
[17:21] <jcoxon> e.g. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8483
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[17:22] Action: ibanezmatt13 feels a bit thick now
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> thanks jcoxon
[17:22] <jcoxon> i use lipos for all my testing
[17:23] <ibanezmatt13> have you ever made a li-po charger on a PCB?
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[17:23] <jcoxon> i've done it on a breadboard
[17:23] <jcoxon> and on stripboard
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[17:23] <ibanezmatt13> using a charger IC?
[17:23] <jcoxon> yeah max1555
[17:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking at the MAX1555 and trying to figure a good way to wire it on the schematic
[17:24] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, do you get banned if you do it twice?
[17:24] <jcoxon> i thought the schematic was pretty clear!
[17:24] <ibanezmatt13> http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX1551-MAX1555.pdf
[17:25] <jcoxon> see the typical operating circuit
[17:25] <iain_g4sgx> Good rx of B11 from the garden just before the blue again. nice
[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Normally they help newbies but I wouldn't make a habit of loading at the runway. If someone's been doing a 10 hour flight and they're landing and you crash out their sim, not good
[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> jcoxon: ok, thanks
[17:25] <LeoBodnar_> mattbrejza: has the signal improved?
[17:25] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, How can someone be that obsessed to do a ten hour flight?
[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Well I did a 9 hour :/
[17:26] <ibanezmatt13> It's quite addictive but now I'm a bit bored
[17:26] <Willdude123> You had 9 hours spare?
[17:26] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, actually page 6 is better
[17:26] <jcoxon> has values for the caps
[17:26] <ibanezmatt13> Yea jcoxon I'm just figuring out how the thing works :)
[17:27] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I don't think I'm ready to fly vatsim. I need some practive
[17:27] <darkstar-20011> I've got B-11 about 12dB over noise here in Cambridgeshire. If only dl-fldigi didn't crash on startup I could (perhaps) do something with it!
[17:27] <Willdude123> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHzvtcLrkBU
[17:27] <jcoxon> darkstar-20011, delete your config files
[17:27] <ibanezmatt13> yep Willdude123, that does happen :)
[17:28] <Willdude123> So err. How do I train myself?
[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> you learn on Vatsim
[17:28] <darkstar-20011> jcoxon: Ta!
[17:28] <Willdude123> Really? But how do I learn on vatsim?
[17:29] <Willdude123> Thought it was for proffessionals. I don't even know how to talk to ATC.
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> load at a small airport and check vatspy to find one with a controller on it. Then just put in your flight plan notes "newbie plz help"
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> well, it's recomended for ATC training yes
[17:29] <Willdude123> Small airports?
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> Liverpool? Not small but not big
[17:29] <Willdude123> Boscombe down maybe.
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> Bristol?
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> Not somewhere that's empty :)
[17:30] <LeoBodnar_> Willdude123: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP41320Editionto4April2013_ISBN9780117928206.pdf
[17:30] <Willdude123> It's sunday, so all the Qinetiq people won't be there
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[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> jcoxon: So page 6: I literally, give the charger IC voltage input from the adapter, and plug the positive terminal of the lipo to BAT. And have an LED on the POK pin? Is that absolutely it?
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> including all the decoupling caps and stuff
[17:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:31] <jcoxon> pretty much
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> So does the Lipo have three terminals then?
[17:31] <jcoxon> the ones i linked to don't
[17:32] <jcoxon> just Pos and Gnd
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> How do you separate the charging line with the output line?
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[17:32] <jcoxon> you don't
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok
[17:32] <jcoxon> so you can charge and run a device at the same time
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> So the lipo POS is connected to BAT on the charger IC, and the lipo POS is also connected to a normal VREG for my components?
[17:33] <jcoxon> yes
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> sweet!
[17:34] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar_, eek about flight path
[17:36] <LeoBodnar_> Luton?
[17:36] <jcoxon> london
[17:36] <jcoxon> but also luton
[17:36] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar_: i got my first decode the next transmission after i said i could initially see it
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[17:36] <Upu> 434.500 usual pips ?
[17:37] <mattbrejza> ya
[17:37] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, I'm back to my frequency lol
[17:39] <Upu> Rule 1 : Don't fly over major cities
[17:39] <Upu> "doh"
[17:39] <LeoBodnar_> jcoxon: it should be at 8k over London
[17:40] <G4SGX_Iain> I see there's an extra couple of CR/LF's before the data, its improved myRX of the first string for sure.
[17:42] <Upu> I can see it not decoded yet though
[17:42] <LeoBodnar_> I think dl-fldigi lock onto some noise and is difficult to re-lock to a signal when it comes
[17:43] <Upu> oh there you go
[17:50] <Steve_2e0vet> what frew is B11 on
[17:50] <Upu> 434.500
[17:51] <LeoBodnar_> Upu: When DomEX 22 is flying?
[17:52] <JDat> what about 1280 MHz video downlinks?
[17:52] <Upu> no idea now
[17:52] <JDat> I tested on ground and it is possible to receive video using old analog SAT tuner
[17:52] <LeoBodnar_> Why not?
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[17:52] <Upu> no time to do it for a month or so
[17:53] <Upu> might be piggybacking in Septemebr
[17:53] <JDat> SAT tuner sensitivity ir better than RC video receiver
[17:53] <JDat> is*
[17:54] <LeoBodnar_> Shame...
[17:54] <JDat> I am planning to launch 1.2 GHz video downlont on Zinoo2 balloon
[17:54] <Upu> I may redo the whole board anyway
[17:55] <LeoBodnar_> Why is that?
[17:55] <Upu> because it didn't work :)
[17:56] <Upu> I had to hang a PAVA off the side of it :)
[17:56] <Upu> it was that one where the GPS didn't work
[17:57] <LeoBodnar_> wasn't it dynamic RAM problem in the end?
[17:57] <Upu> nah
[17:57] <Upu> must be board layout
[17:57] <Upu> very very odd
[17:58] <LeoBodnar_> Oh, you said memory clash of sorts? Do you want me to have a look at it?
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking for an ESD protection IC in Eagle. The one I want to use is the USBLC6-2 but it's not there
[18:01] <mattbrejza> is this you being 'inspired' by adams board?
[18:01] <LeoBodnar_> How do tracker icons show up / disappear on the tracker map? SOme say "Last Contact: 23 hours ago"
[18:01] <mattbrejza> thats time since fldigi was turned on i think
[18:01] <G4SGX_Iain> Well Im impressed with the FCD pro+ filters, Its in the garden 6 foot away from my HF wire and I just worked Angola on 100W CW and it still received packets during it.
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: That and my Uncle wants a PCB for his bike that he can charge up :)
[18:02] <mattbrejza> well what did you want to esd protect?
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> the micro usb input
[18:03] <mattbrejza> youre only connecting power though
[18:03] <G4SGX_Iain> 21.012MHz if anyones interested, very strong.
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> why did Adam use one?
[18:03] <mattbrejza> he was using data to connect to the ublox
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> he's got one on the main power one too
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[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> is it safe to leave the d+ and d- floating then mattbrejza?
[18:05] <mattbrejza> well the charging IC should have it built in if it intends to be connected to the external world
[18:05] <mattbrejza> yea leave them
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[18:06] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: https://www.dropbox.com/s/011w302mn882pz9/lipo.png
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> would that work or is it wrong?
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, I may need to chage the labels on USB and DC
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> Not really sure what the difference is in how I should wire DC and USB up
[18:09] <mattbrejza> dont connect both DC and USB
[18:09] <mattbrejza> only need one
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll get rid of USB
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> but what if I'm charging it from a PC?
[18:10] <mattbrejza> well
[18:11] <mattbrejza> technically you should connect to usb, so that the charging current is <100mA
[18:11] <mattbrejza> because you shouldnt take more than 100mA from USB withoyt asking for it
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[18:11] <mattbrejza> but in practice hubs will allow upto the max (500mA) without you asking
[18:12] <mattbrejza> so you could connect the DC input to the usb socket, which will draw upto 280mA
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> right, how would I wire USB up if I had to?
[18:12] <mattbrejza> so itll charge quicker from USB
[18:12] <mattbrejza> but you are abusing usb a little
[18:12] <mattbrejza> how you did it in that png was fine
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> So the chip can handle USB and DC at the same time/
[18:13] <mattbrejza> well connect to one of those pins not both
[18:13] <mattbrejza> its deisgned to operate from two potential soruces
[18:13] <mattbrejza> so if you have one connect it to only one
[18:13] <mattbrejza> it wont damage it how youve done it thoigh
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, so basically I've finished completely the li-po charging circuit?
[18:14] <mattbrejza> yea, you just need to delete one connection
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> wait, which one's that?
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[18:14] <mattbrejza> well either the one to 'DC' or 'USB'
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> So I connect the microusb vbus to say DC and then tie USB to DC?
[18:15] <mattbrejza> why?
[18:15] <mattbrejza> thats not how the IC is supposed to be used
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure where USB fits into this. Shall I just leave the USB floating?
[18:15] <mattbrejza> yep
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[18:19] <LeoBodnar_> Technically drawing any current from USB without attempting attachment and enumeration is against standard but nobody cares anymore :)
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[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: That MAX1555 can't output less than 4V to charge the battery. How can a 3.7 Li-Po handle that?
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> brb
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[18:21] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: magic
[18:23] <Steve_2e0vet> what causes this http://imgur.com/wjOk7MZ it seems to be picking outside sounds up, this was me coughing
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> -_-
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[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: could you define magic?
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> evening Lunar_Lander
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[18:23] <mattbrejza> read the datasheet and find out :)
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> That;s where I found it outputs a minimum of 4.1v
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[18:25] <mfa298> Steve_2e0vet: check what input dl-fldigi is using, By default I think my laptop uses the internal mic, or if you're using stereo mix that could also be getting stuff from an internal mix
[18:25] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: youve misunderstood the datasheet
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> most definitely true
[18:25] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, cheers
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX1551-MAX1555.pdf I was looking a page 3
[18:26] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: you think that a lipo is 3.7V and that putting more than 3.7V in a lipo is therefore bad
[18:26] <eroomde> both of these assumptions are quite wrong
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> oooh dear :/
[18:26] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery#Charging
[18:27] <eroomde> charge a lipo up to 100% and measure the voltage with multimeter
[18:27] <eroomde> that will kill off assumption 1
[18:27] <LeoBodnar_> Or this http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> right
[18:28] <eroomde> look at this discharge curve
[18:28] <eroomde> http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_packs/Li_Polymer/Li_Po_DiscGph.JPG
[18:28] <eroomde> 3.7 is just the average
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> so Li-Pos can give out any voltage between around 3 and 4.2
[18:29] <eroomde> yup
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> so they can be charged with whatever voltage?
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[18:30] <G4SGX_Iain> He He, gonna fly pretty close to the houses of Parliament, sure you havent got an extra payload? lol
[18:30] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, liverpool has no tower.
[18:30] <eroomde> charged according to the links leo and i gave you :)
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[18:30] <Willdude123> I went on EGKK Tower and asked how I read. But didn't work
[18:31] <eroomde> LeoBodnar_: what's on this flight?
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: You'll get used to it, bit busy though atm
[18:31] <Willdude123> I guess I need to check my mic
[18:31] <Maxell> RevSpace is now tracking from The Hague.
[18:31] <Willdude123> And check the PTT is working
[18:31] <x-f> hey, JDat, all going well?
[18:33] <mattbrejza> just flying over the mall
[18:35] <G4SGX_Iain> Now Saaaaf of the river
[18:35] <LeoBodnar_> eroomde: 10.7g payload with solar panels and a bit more free lift. Trying to see if night descents are repeatable.
[18:36] <eroomde> coolio
[18:36] <LeoBodnar_> No butane just yet.
[18:36] <mattbrejza> probably best considering its flight path
[18:36] <Willdude123> Anyone here do VATSIM?
[18:38] <G4SGX_Iain> Are you actually after a night descent then? Thought they were an unwanted occurance.
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[18:42] <LeoBodnar_> I am not really but if it happens again it would have more data. This one has higher lift than usual. I am intrigued to see what happens. It can burst in the morning when heated up. Or it can accumulate more ice/water/supercooled air than before and descend steeper. Or it can just survive.
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[18:42] <LeoBodnar_> *It would bring more data
[18:43] <Steve_2e0vet> i dont believe it, all my troubles (well a lot of them) is because i had the data lead plugged into the wrong socket
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[18:44] <chrisstubbs> Hah
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[18:45] <iain_g4sgx> Ah I see. :)
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[18:46] <Maxell> whats the dial for b-11? 434.500 is empty in the hague :P
[18:47] <Steve_2e0vet> ping Upu
[18:48] <Upu> evening Steve
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[18:48] <Steve_2e0vet> evening are you transmitting with your habdino
[18:48] <Steve_2e0vet> *habduino
[18:48] <Upu> yeah I've turned it off now
[18:49] <Steve_2e0vet> ok was gonna see if i could hear it
[18:49] <Upu> oh ok err 1 sec
[18:49] <Upu> I'll make it TX via the colinear
[18:49] <Steve_2e0vet> ive found out what my decoding issues were
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[18:49] <Steve_2e0vet> what freq
[18:49] <Upu> hang on finding an adaptor
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[18:50] <Steve_2e0vet> if its 434075 i will need to turn mine off
[18:50] <iain_g4sgx> my dialis 434.501683 and its about 1750 on fldigi
[18:50] <Maxell> burst
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[18:51] <Upu> or float Maxell
[18:51] <Upu> never say burst :)
[18:51] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Only 11.91km away...
[18:51] <Maxell> :P
[18:52] <Upu> not sure where my adaptor has gone
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[18:52] Action: LazyLeopard is a bit late to the B-11 tracking party...
[18:52] <Steve_2e0vet> np
[18:52] <mattbrejza> is the stepping altitude graph because the two sentences the payload sends actually a couple mins apart but saved locally and sent togethre?
[18:53] <Upu> I doubt you'll pick it up on a stub
[18:53] <LeoBodnar_> haha burst more like
[18:53] <Upu> give me a mo I'm sure I have an adaptor round here
[18:53] <Steve_2e0vet> im on a tri band vertical
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[18:54] <mattbrejza> btw Upu my conf presentation is looking like its about 15min long, dunno how long you were expecting
[18:55] <Upu> 434.651 Steve_2e0vet
[18:55] <Upu> nps mattbrejza
[18:55] <mattbrejza> :)
[18:55] <LazyLeopard> Meridian crossed...
[18:55] <LeoBodnar_> Bumped into
[18:55] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[18:56] <Steve_2e0vet> upu yep nothing
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[18:56] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/MIVuaOJ.jpg
[18:57] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[18:57] <Steve_2e0vet> those houses look familier lol
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[18:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening Upu :-)
[18:58] <Upu> evening Tom
[18:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: 1 Watt out, HF (10 MHz) http://www.db0anf.de/app/aprs/stations/digiusage-SP9UOB-10
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[18:58] <Steve_2e0vet> upu found out what my decoding problem was
[18:59] <Upu> som distance :)
[18:59] <Upu> oh yeah
[18:59] <Upu> what was it ?
[18:59] <Steve_2e0vet> i was plugged into the microphone socket
[18:59] <LeoBodnar_> What is the RF module freq Upu ? 434MHz?
[18:59] <Steve_2e0vet> ive built 3 trackers because i thought i was doing something wrong
[19:00] <Upu> oh
[19:00] <Upu> doh
[19:00] <Upu> 434Mhz frequency agile that one
[19:00] <Steve_2e0vet> it wasnt until i swollowed a fly, coughed and saw a great big yellow streak across fldigi that i realised
[19:00] <Upu> haha
[19:00] <LeoBodnar_> Lol
[19:01] <Steve_2e0vet> its funny now, but wasnt at the time
[19:01] <Steve_2e0vet> the "fly" was a slight exageration, but had to make it sound better lol
[19:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: home made TX exciter DDS AD9851 and PA 1 watt http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pliki/pa1W.jpg
[19:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar_: are You dividing 30MHz reference to PIC for frequency compensation ?
[19:04] <LeoBodnar_> Yes SP9UOB-Tom
[19:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> im talking about Timer1 in async counter mode
[19:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar_: is it single D coiunter or something bigger ?
[19:06] <LeoBodnar_> How do you do it?
[19:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> im in concept phase now - datasheet saying that 60ns minimum period on counter input
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[19:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> i want to run timer in asynchronus counter and gate it by 1PPS signal
[19:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> but i need at least /2 divide the reference signal
[19:09] <LeoBodnar_> YOu can do it that way as well. I am on Rev.F of the PCB - can't remember what the code looked like at the beginning.
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[19:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar_: and how are You doing it?
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[19:11] <LeoBodnar_> Gating the asynchronous external signal with 1PPS output
[19:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> found : http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc1g175.pdf
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[19:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Gah B-11 taken flight!#
[19:12] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: Long Duration 434.5 MHz balloon launched http://t.co/5SSBBHAQyk #amsat #hamr #hab #ukhas
[19:13] <LeoBodnar_> It looks like it has blown a hole
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> what freq 434.5 ?
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[19:14] <LeoBodnar_> I guess I should not have bothered with solar panels XD
[19:17] <tweetBot> @thoughtstore: Long Duration 434.5 MHz balloon launched http://t.co/bdvnX8hhz1 #hamr #nearspace #ukhas #amsat
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[19:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys, just got back from a trip to see B11 up. Can I have a dial freq. please?
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> 434.5
[19:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers Chris
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[19:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cracking signal here in Crayford
[19:21] <Chris_M6CSV> What frequency is B11 on?
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> It is 434.5
[19:22] <Chris_M6CSV> Thanks Geoff
[19:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Telemetry every 5mins?
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[19:22] <LeoBodnar_> It's coming down into the channel so hurru up G0TDJ_Steve :)
[19:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> blip every 3 secs
[19:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@m there!
[19:23] <LeoBodnar_> lol
[19:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> 2 mins da time 5 min night
[19:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> *day
[19:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar_: so we are waiting for B-11 in Poland :-)
[19:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> There you go :D
[19:25] <LeoBodnar_> I'm afraid not SP9UOB-Tom - it has just burst recently
[19:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> pity
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[19:26] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[19:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool, my friend Lee M6DRS is receiving too :D
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar_> Hehe great stuff
[19:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar_: Signal slowly drifting up.
[19:30] <LeoBodnar_> Hm, interesting, it should probably drift down with temperature rise.
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Confirm the drift
[19:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Can someone else confirm?
[19:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers geoff
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[19:33] <LeoBodnar_> How big is the drift?
[19:35] <mattbrejza> only by like 20Hz here
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[19:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> I think the drift has slowed down since I noticed it LeoBodnar_
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[19:41] <LazyLeopard> Was on offset about 1280 when I first heard it around 19:50, and is now on offset 1400 at 20:39 (times BST)
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[19:43] <WillTablet> I know I promised to stop moaning about slow internet, but i'm getting around 0.03mbps, to a server in newbury.
[19:44] <LeoBodnar_> Interesting, maybe I need to bring freq correction back
[19:44] <mfa298> WillTablet: even though the server is in newbury doesn't mean the connection is short. The way ADSL/Internet works you could be going around half the country.
[19:45] <WillTablet> It was selected based on ping I think though
[19:45] <mfa298> and if you've had a torrent client running recently that can really slow stuff down
[19:45] <LeoBodnar_> Wow
[19:46] <mfa298> that went up fast !
[19:46] <LazyLeopard> Something mighty odd happening there!
[19:46] <WillTablet> what?
[19:46] <LeoBodnar_> It did this on the last flight as well. Will have to check the code again.
[19:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> No wonder it's a good signal....
[19:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> And now the freq. is drifting up :D
[19:47] <WillTablet> I c
[19:48] <WillTablet> I closed the torrent client.
[19:48] <WillTablet> I'm getting a mighty 500kbps!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:49] <mfa298> you have to wait a while (potentially hours or more) for some of the attempted connections to drop off.
[19:49] <mfa298> that's after closing a torrent client
[19:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Weird, the signal is weakening LeoBodnar_
[19:49] <mfa298> When I tried out some other P2P software many years ago I was still getting traffic for it months after getting rid of it.
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[19:51] <mfa298> plus 500kbps if that's from a single server could be all it can do (depending on what the server is and where it is)
[19:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still decoded successfully
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[19:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> LeoBodnar_: I have to go in a minute but I'll leave the kit on as long as I can and correct freq when possible. 73 fer nw.
[19:54] <LeoBodnar_> Cheers G0TDJ_Steve
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[19:58] <chrisstubbs> To anyone who wants to learn EAGLE: I am putting together some HAB related video tutorials of the bits I have learned over the last couple of months. Is there anything people would find particularly useful?
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> Great idea!
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[19:59] <SpeedEvil> how to train bears to skydive.
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> Haha
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: A tutorial video on ground planes for different things would be helpful
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> quite important too
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> Yeah thats on the list!
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> Will probably do one for the TPS61201 too
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> Maybe a separate one for the TPS61201
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> that's good for teaching polygons
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> Yeah
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> might have to spend some time editing out the swearing when it goes horribly wrong too
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[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> haha, nah that's part of it
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[20:01] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> It's true that the people remember things better when they can link it to a particular event. "Hey I remember how to rip up a track; Chris said "Oh S***" and hit the rip-up tool" :)
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> works for me anyway
[20:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
[20:03] <mfa298> Is the serious going to be called something like "Routing from Hell" or "Hells Eagle"
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[20:04] <mfa298> s/serious/series/
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[20:06] <chrisstubbs> I was thinking EAGLE4HAB
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[20:07] Action: cm13g09 returns, a little more bruised than before this morning....
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[20:17] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Think B-11 is out of my range now... Geography getting in the way...
[20:18] <fsphil> ah launch
[20:19] <fsphil> ah, falling
[20:19] <mfa298> descent speed looks like it's slowing down
[20:19] <Upu> its floating again
[20:19] <Upu> wierd
[20:19] <Upu> I have no idea what you do with these LeoBodnar
[20:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Has he been playing with the Butane ?
[20:19] <Upu> if it makes it to France you'll probably get it back
[20:20] <LeoBodnar_> They are weird little buggers. I don't understand them.
[20:20] <eroomde> in that respect it's like a proposal to scrap the common agricultural policy
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[20:21] <Willdude123> Hi Upu. Board finished
[20:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LeoBodnar_, what is it filled with ? You were talking about mixtures etc. ?
[20:21] <Willdude123> Ironed out errors
[20:21] <Upu> good Willdude123
[20:21] <LeoBodnar_> I think it is just cold air. Balloon will cool down and drop.
[20:21] <Upu> still got those wierd diagonal lines ?
[20:21] <Willdude123> Not ordering it yet as I'm not sure I can afford it.
[20:22] <Martin_G4FUI> Simplistically, it seems to me that "lightweight floaters" are in such delicate equilibrium with their surroundings, that small variations in those surroundings have a large effect on said floater (?)
[20:22] <fsphil> yea the stepping in altitude is odd
[20:23] <Martin_G4FUI> I apologise for the dodgy grammar!
[20:24] <eroomde> that altitude stepping could be dodgy gps
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Surely the small steps are just due to the gaps between Tx's instead of every few seconds its every few minutes ?
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[20:27] <LeoBodnar_> spacenear.us altitude is plotted against the time report has been received instead of time inside the report. SInce two strings (one delays) are transmitted at once you have these steps. Mobile tracker dows not show them.
[20:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup likewise in GE, its a smooth line
[20:28] <LeoBodnar_> oO
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[20:28] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ging up!
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[20:29] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[20:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=1
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[20:32] <LeoBodnar_> intriguing at the least!
[20:32] <Martin_G4FUI> Naturally occuring curves are so sexy! Geoff's diagram has more than a hint of hyperbolic to it ...
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> its clearly as we havent studied fluid dynamics enough
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/dawkins.html
[20:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You didn't swill some Butane inside the Pico did you LeoBodnar_ ?
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[20:34] <LeoBodnar_> No, not this one. But I have used a new He cylinder.
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[20:35] <LeoBodnar_> "Suppose you are an intellectual impostor with nothing to say, but with strong ambitions to succeed in academic life..." Haha, I have seen a few!
[20:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/B-11_201309012135.jpg
[20:36] <Martin_G4FUI> You been on the tartrazine, LeoBodnar_ ?
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[20:37] <Laurenceb_> " The problem of turbulent flow cannot be solved because the conceptions of fluids (and of women) have been formulated so as necessarily to leave unarticulated remainders. "
[20:37] <LeoBodnar_> No, I have been through the uni and some staff was exactly like that phrase XD
[20:38] <LeoBodnar_> What's tartrazine?
[20:38] <Martin_G4FUI> Geoff's buiding a bridge across to France - that could severely impact on the economics of Eastern Kent! :)
[20:38] <LeoBodnar_> Lol Martin
[20:38] <Martin_G4FUI> Stuff they blame hyperactivity on, ISTR ...
[20:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Designed by LeoBodnar_, implemented by B-11 and watched by Geoff !
[20:39] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: @F5APQ @f6agv #ukhas Ballon venir à vous 434.500 DominoEX16
[20:39] <LeoBodnar_> As an engineer I wouldn't stand under one.
[20:39] <Martin_G4FUI> Still, those curves .... :)
[20:40] <G4SGX_Iain> Strange, looks like B11's climbing again..
[20:40] <Martin_G4FUI> Rallying call to the French by Upu!
[20:41] <Upu> Oui
[20:41] <Martin_G4FUI> Bien sur
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[20:41] <LeoBodnar_> Croissant?
[20:41] <Martin_G4FUI> :\
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[20:42] <Upu> which way is it likely to go anyway ?
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
[20:42] <Upu> got a Hysplit ?
[20:42] <Martin_G4FUI> As in "Croissant La Manche"?
[20:42] <Upu> oh on the mail
[20:42] <Upu> ignore me
[20:42] <Upu> wierd one
[20:43] <LeoBodnar_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuXdhow3uqQ
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, http://gerblook.org/pcb/mRoZHQyV3ewzGwfsqzPTSc
[20:45] <Upu> looks good Lunar_Lander apart from all those through hold cobblers
[20:45] <Upu> Leo http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/18721_trj001.gif
[20:45] <Upu> hold=hole
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> why the steps in altitude?
[20:46] <mattbrejza> its a spacenear thing
[20:46] <mattbrejza> /mt doesnt do it
[20:46] <Upu> its only receiving every 5 mins
[20:46] <Upu> is that something to do with it ?
[20:46] <LeoBodnar_> I'm using this for telemetry http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/055a7e5147d3a7258f07a652d4cda64c
[20:47] <mattbrejza> it saves a message and then only transmits it 2.5min later
[20:47] <Upu> hey thats a nice tool
[20:48] <LeoBodnar_> Upu: what a choice of routes!
[20:48] <Upu> you're going to need the French
[20:48] <LeoBodnar_> Lunar_Lander: didn't you have a lot of AA batteries before?
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[20:48] <Upu> like America really
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[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar_, yeah, but I removed them from the board
[20:49] <LeoBodnar_> Lol Upu
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> as I couldn't make a 10x10 cm goal with them
[20:50] <LeoBodnar_> Is it Eurocard size?
[20:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Still climbing
[20:50] <Upu> that 11km alt was an error ?
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> now it is 9.9x9.9 cm :)
[20:51] <LeoBodnar_> Laurenceb_: so is this thermal runaway in full swing?
[20:51] <LeoBodnar_> Upu: Yeah Das Glitsch of some sort
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> maybe yeah
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> it could be that the extra lift corrected it
[20:52] <LeoBodnar_> Very sharp transition at the top though
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> maybe some moisture
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> i cant see how the thermal runaway effect in itself could be strong enough
[20:53] <Upu> your flight profiles are nothing short of wierd
[20:53] <LeoBodnar_> Maybe in combination with frost
[20:53] <LeoBodnar_> Thank you Upu
[20:54] <Upu> nps :)
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[20:56] <Laurenceb_> why the steps in altitude?
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> oh nvm
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> lol mt doesnt show anything
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> telemetry graph stops at 18:20
[20:59] <LeoBodnar_> Laurenceb_: http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/055a7e5147d3a7258f07a652d4cda64c
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> internal temp is a bit warm
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> how did it get that hot ?!
[21:00] <x-f> (i removed the odd point)
[21:01] <LeoBodnar_> I was just going to ask how did you do it x-f! :) Thanks
[21:01] <LeoBodnar_> What altitude Laurenceb_ ?
[21:01] <LeoBodnar_> ANd time?
[21:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Was it in the sun in the back of a car or something before launch ?
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> just at liftoff
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> it was 42C
[21:03] <LeoBodnar_> It was in the hot car.
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> ah
[21:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> 14:45 it was 44c
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> hit 44C in fact
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:03] <LeoBodnar_> I was going to drive somewhere to launch so it sat there for 10-20min
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[21:05] <ike> hi LeoBodnar_ http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-3/Images/1.jpg what are those strange blue smd elements on the right side?
[21:06] <LeoBodnar_> inductors
[21:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=5
[21:07] <ike> what will hapend if I don't put inductors and caps only 25cm wire?
[21:07] <LeoBodnar_> To what ike?
[21:08] <ike> to si4463 RF TX pin
[21:08] <eroomde> i think ike is wondering if impedance matching is an optional extra
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:08] <LeoBodnar_> You'll get massive 3rd harmonics at the least
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> big NO
[21:08] <eroomde> i think ike wants to read up on some basic electronics
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> the silabs thing is basically a pwm output
[21:09] <LeoBodnar_> It's class-E amp
[21:09] <eroomde> I'm + filtering i should say
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> need some high quality and relatively complex matching
[21:09] <ike> what about some small cap for 3rd harmonic like 1-2pF
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:10] <LeoBodnar_> You'll get SOME signal but why do you want to skip the filter/match?
[21:10] <LeoBodnar_> YOu need at least ONE inductor from TX+ pin to Vdd. But it would be such a ghetto design.
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[21:10] <ike> wrong frequency on ebay's modules
[21:11] <LeoBodnar_> Just replace them
[21:12] <ike> I can't
[21:12] <ike> I'm not that good with smd
[21:12] <LeoBodnar_> I haven't actually looked where 434MHz harmonics end up, might be somewhere not very nice.
[21:12] <Upu> give you a discount code for the Radiometrix stuff ike :)
[21:12] <ike> and I don't tink I can find good right inductors and caps
[21:13] <Upu> I still have some RFM22Bs left which are basically the same thing
[21:13] <ike> 10x Upu, but my goal is $4 and less space + less power
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[21:13] <Upu> yeah can't quite get to that :)
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar_ yeah are you using the reference design?
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> looks a little simpler than my matching
[21:13] <ike> yes, about those RFM22B/si4432 what about 15MHz xtal
[21:13] <Upu> 30Mhz
[21:13] <ike> what do you think guys
[21:13] <LeoBodnar_> No, sliced and diced
[21:13] <Upu> I have a pile of 30Mhz crystals actually
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> i see
[21:14] <ike> did some of you tryed that
[21:14] <LeoBodnar_> What pic are you looking at?
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[21:14] <ike> 15mhz instead of 30MHz?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> mine is at lower right
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/9cC04.jpg
[21:14] <Upu> nope I put a 26Mhz TCXO on my SI4460 based board
[21:14] <Upu> that works well
[21:14] <Upu> White meh
[21:15] <ike> Laurenceb_ at what frequency do you TX at 433 or 144.xxx
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> 434
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> Laurenceb_: Is that a BMP085?
[21:15] <Upu> we can't use 144 in the air here
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:15] <LeoBodnar_> Laurenceb_: I don't use RX
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[21:16] <ike> Laurenceb_ have you tryed with 15MHz xtal?
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> yeah - i have skyworks rf switch on there
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> ike: no
[21:16] <ike> what do you think
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> its outside spec
[21:16] <ike> goal is 144.800
[21:16] <ike> is it possible?
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[21:16] <Laurenceb_> iirc someone tried that, but no luck
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> - use of 15mhz with si4432
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[21:17] <Upu> Leo runs the 4460 out of spec
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> Laurenceb_: Have you got some sort of schematic for your BMP085 chip? I just did one but not sure if it was correct or not
[21:17] <ike> new si4463 goes to 110MHz I think
[21:17] <LeoBodnar_> PLL probably won't lock
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> <ibanezmatt13>: datasheet?
[21:17] <ike> and I think that those chips are made in the same fab
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> Laurenceb_: It's ok, I was just unsure about the general wiring but I think it's fine
[21:18] <ike> Upu: Leo runs the 4460 out of spec - how?
[21:18] <LeoBodnar_> I mean if you take existing design and just start dropping the xtal freq PLL VFO will probably hit a limit where it can't be controlled anymore.
[21:19] <LeoBodnar_> Using out of spec xtal I make sure VFO is still running within its normal operation range.
[21:21] <LeoBodnar_> I have Si4462 running APRS, it's within spec.
[21:21] <ike> yes, but double the price
[21:21] <ike> I can't solder chips, I can only use premade ebay's modules
[21:21] <LeoBodnar_> You want to run 4432 at 144.8?
[21:22] <ike> yes
[21:22] <ike> with 15MHz xtal
[21:22] <ike> and I have other question
[21:23] <LeoBodnar_> Impossible
[21:23] <ike> can I use 25cm wire as an antenna instead of 50cm wire
[21:23] <ike> why is Impossible? internal VFO?
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[21:23] <LeoBodnar_> PLL N coefficient won't go below 24
[21:24] <ike> LeoBodnar_ I don't understand
[21:25] <ike> if I use 15MHz xtal wouldn't that make everry frequency 2 times less
[21:26] <ike> like 290MHz will become 145MHz
[21:26] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, VFO simply won't go that low. I can't give you 100% assurance but typically you can "overclock/underclock" only 10-20% off the datasheet range.
[21:26] <ike> 290 is within the specs
[21:28] <LeoBodnar_> Sorry, it's VCO not VFO in Silabs docs.
[21:28] <ike> so Si4432 can go down to 192MHz (240-20%)
[21:28] <ike> did you try it that low?
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[21:29] <LeoBodnar_> I have tried Si4462
[21:29] <ike> they are new chips
[21:29] <ike> and maybe they can go lower
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[21:30] <LeoBodnar_> Well this is my opinion. I can probably bet you £100 it won't work but if you try and report back we'll all benefit fro extra knowledge.
[21:30] <ike> why don't you use Si4463 it's 119–1050 MHz part
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[21:30] <ike> I was hoping that someone have hack it already
[21:31] <ike> tell me about antenna
[21:31] <ike> can I use 25cm wire instead of 50cm wire
[21:31] <LeoBodnar_> I wanted to use Si4462 at 26MHz. Silly me XD
[21:31] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, but efficiency will be much worse and impedance will be different.
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> 6Km :P
[21:32] <LeoBodnar_> Look up short dipole antenna
[21:32] <LeoBodnar_> Oh, sneaky balloon. :)
[21:33] <Upu> this isn't using your new warming up the gas idea is it ?
[21:33] <LeoBodnar_> No Upu plain vanilla foil
[21:33] <Upu> this is witch craft
[21:34] <LeoBodnar_> You can't hack a VCO, it has variable oscillator circuit consisting of a ceramic coil and most probably varicap. You are asking a varicap to give you twice higher capacitance.
[21:35] <LeoBodnar_> Lol Upu I'd love to say it has been planned but no.
[21:35] <ike> It have a quite dinamic range
[21:36] <ike> 240–930 MHz is not funny business
[21:36] <LeoBodnar_> ike: try it! This was my take on it but I have never tried with this particular chip. I have tried with others though.
[21:37] <mikestir> LeoBodnar_: what happened to cause that huge altitude spike?!
[21:37] <ike> about those Si4462 what are they rated to
[21:37] <LeoBodnar_> You don't need to do anything with output stage for this experiment. Just replace the xtal
[21:37] <ike> what is their lowest frequency
[21:37] <LeoBodnar_> http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadioPRO/Pages/si446x.aspx
[21:38] <ike> 119–1050 MHz
[21:38] <ike> how did you try 26MHz?
[21:38] <ike> with SW settings?
[21:39] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, you can do anything you want with PLL coefficients unlike on Si4432.
[21:39] <ike> so I can go down to 145MHz just with PLL settings?
[21:40] <LeoBodnar_> mikestir: It wasn't my fault - honest! No idea
[21:40] <ike> without changin of the xtal?
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[21:40] <LeoBodnar_> Si446x are all specced to work on 2m.
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[21:41] <ike> at double price
[21:42] <ike> about antenna
[21:42] <ike> output is 50 Ohms right?
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[21:42] <LeoBodnar_> I wonder if water has anything to do with reversing descent.
[21:42] <LeoBodnar_> What output ike ?
[21:42] <ike> what is the best wire for antenna 1/4 .. 1/2 ?
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[21:43] <ike> output of rf TX stage of SI44xx
[21:43] <ike> impedance
[21:43] <ike> impedance of RF TX stage
[21:43] <ike> pin4 of si446x
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[21:46] <LeoBodnar_> It's all in there: http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN648.pdf http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN627.pdf
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[21:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Pssibly greater humidity of the sea and it can warm the balloon more rapidly, especially the surface which might have ice or water on it ?
[21:47] <LeoBodnar_> TX pin is just an output of a MOSFET that shorts it to the ground. Very much like OC
[21:47] <LeoBodnar_> I would say it is cold dense air over the water.
[21:47] <LeoBodnar_> Humidity and warmth usually mean lower lift
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[21:48] <WillTablet> Hi
[21:49] <LeoBodnar_> Is IR radiation higher from water than from landmass?
[21:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I'm thinking that the higher humidity will help the heat transfer, what ever the temperature is ..
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: both have similar emissivioty
[21:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Sea temperature will be less than the ground at the current time
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> land may cool faster
[21:50] <LeoBodnar_> ping KT5TK
[21:50] <G4SGX_Iain> Its a phenomenon for sure.
[21:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Sea temperatures for today http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/marine/weather?LEVEL=77&MENU=0&CEL=C&SI=mph&MEER=kana
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[21:51] <LeoBodnar_> I am surprised this is not covered in hot air ballooning literature or folklore.
[21:52] <G4SGX_Iain> Must be the small size is accentuating whatever efect is causing it, most experiments been with bigger bvalloons i presume?
[21:52] <LeoBodnar_> Water temperature is not that low.
[21:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> what 16-18 C sure is!
[21:53] <LeoBodnar_> Yes, and higher altitudes. sub-10k is notoriously difficult to stay afloat in.
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[21:56] <ike> LeoBodnar_ thanks for the info you give me
[21:57] <LeoBodnar_> nps
[21:57] <ike> I will try it someday
[21:57] <ike> I don't have modules
[21:57] <ike> that are in transit from china
[21:57] <LeoBodnar_> cool, let us know!
[21:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Now what will it do once it gets back to7.3Km and similar temperature ?
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> lol and down again
[21:58] <LeoBodnar_> Good question, if it fell once it might as well do it again
[21:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Back down again!
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> is it hitting a layer of cloud?
[21:58] <G4SGX_Iain> Just hit land too. hmm
[21:59] <LeoBodnar_> If it had butane in it would have confused me massively.
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> looks like what you would expect from butane
[22:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=6
[22:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Perhaps we need a humidity sensor onboard to tell us if that might be a cause ?
[22:01] <LeoBodnar_> maybe for proper research there should be two balloons - a control one and an experimental one
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[22:01] <LeoBodnar_> launched at once
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> yeah humidity would be useful
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[22:02] <Laurenceb_> but it might be ice
[22:02] <LeoBodnar_> I don't know if icing/dew can be detected via humidity...
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> dew can't happen at other than 100% hu idity at the surface
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> im thinking it might be due to the mylar cooling
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> due to IR emission
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[22:04] <Laurenceb_> if it goes below the dewpoint there will be ice formation
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[22:06] <SpeedEvil> yup
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> i suspect the extra lift is helping
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> some of the earlier flights crashed in similar fashion
[22:06] <LeoBodnar_> Maybe it has caused instability in the first place
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> prob for same reason
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[22:08] <Laurenceb_> it needs a camera on next flight
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> little omnivision camera and stm32
[22:09] <LeoBodnar_> Pointing at envelope itself?
[22:10] <LeoBodnar_> And some strobe lights
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> flir camera
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[22:11] <ike> SSTV ;)
[22:11] <ike> like lunokhod
[22:15] <LeoBodnar_> Internal gas heating does not seem daft again.
[22:15] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[22:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=7
[22:17] <ike> whare is that? France?
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> butane ftw
[22:18] <LeoBodnar_> Big bounce
[22:19] <LeoBodnar_> I'll try purifying it tomorrow
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[22:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup iys got over the Channel
[22:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *its
[22:20] <ike> like D-day?
[22:20] K9JKM (~chatzilla@c-67-184-171-11.hsd1.il.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:22] <LeoBodnar_> almost :)
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[22:23] <ike> time to drop payload
[22:23] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[22:24] <arko> LeoBodnar_: i just noticed B11 flying
[22:24] <arko> what's responsible for that altitude profile?
[22:24] <arko> freon?
[22:24] <LeoBodnar_> No, this one is pure He.
[22:24] <arko> oh?
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[22:25] <arko> why such a drastic altitude profile?
[22:25] <K9JKM> Thot freon was heavier than air?
[22:25] <arko> K9JKM: i was refering to this paper posted earlier http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/30075/1/95-0435.pdf
[22:26] <K9JKM> ooo, ok ... thanky
[22:28] <LeoBodnar_> Low free lift is probably a key to get gentle floating transition. I think in this case the transition was too sharp with typical overshoot and that what has caused the first descent.
[22:28] <arko> ah
[22:28] gross (925a0d3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.90.13.58) joined #highaltitude.
[22:30] <ike> who is makeing this http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/Pages/2.html
[22:30] <mattbrejza> as good as gone in soton id say now
[22:33] <gross> Hi, I've got some flight info for eranu, if anyone is interested...
[22:35] <mattbrejza> gross: email the group, people are probably on the sleepy side
[22:37] <gross> what? at half eleven on a Sunday? :) ok, will do
[22:37] <mattbrejza> well i might be proved wrong, but more people will see it that way
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/honeywell-s-c/hih-4000-001/sensor-humidity-2-54mm-sip/dp/1187547
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> temp range goes very low
[22:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> also http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1566264&MER=bn-me-pd-r3-cust-all-1566264
[22:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> much cheaper!
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> yeah but annoying to interface
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[22:40] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=2191823&MER=bn-me-pd-r3-cust-all-2191823
[22:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> that should be easier then, not that much more expensive than the first
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> humidity sensors?
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> I now got the HIH-6121
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> but they have like 8 weeks delivery time at farnell
[22:46] Nick change: Randomskk_ -> adamgreig
[22:47] <mattbrejza> someone making a life change adamgreig ?
[22:47] <adamgreig> it was at randomskk_ for ages and I cba changing back to randomskk so I'm gonna see how long this lasts
[22:47] <adamgreig> I'm already adamgreig on all the irc networks I'm on that aren't freenode
[22:48] <mattbrejza> there is a world outside freenode?....
[22:48] <adamgreig> :P
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> yes, outside your mums basement
[22:48] <adamgreig> where do you even live Laurenceb_
[22:48] <adamgreig> have you moved out yet?
[22:48] <mattbrejza> that remark doesnt really work in the uk
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> trolling :P
[22:49] <LeoBodnar_> Interesting to see that temperature has a little plateau at zero degrees. Water freezing up and consuming energy while T remains const?
[22:49] <mattbrejza> attic over here i guess
[22:49] <adamgreig> yea but it's low-quality trolling :P
[22:49] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: 'loft', please
[22:49] <adamgreig> :P
[22:49] <mattbrejza> o dear
[22:49] <mattbrejza> the internet has ruined me
[22:49] WillTablet (~androirc@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[22:49] <adamgreig> join the club
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> descent rate decreasing?
[22:50] <mattbrejza> well unless france wakes up we wont know
[22:52] <WillTablet> Hi
[22:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> But no matching plateau on the first dip
[22:52] <LeoBodnar_> Yeah, following the first one
[22:53] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: did you see my radar antennas?
[22:53] <LeoBodnar_> Maybe reading too much into sparse data
[22:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> always a risk!
[22:54] <mattbrejza> yep
[22:54] <mattbrejza> very pro
[22:54] <adamgreig> :P
[22:54] <adamgreig> they do look a bit cute on the inside
[22:54] <LeoBodnar_> pic or it didn't happen!
[22:54] <adamgreig> no idea if they work yet
[22:55] <adamgreig> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/q0baaic9l0t2f93/gLRQpEdCTy
[22:55] <adamgreig> 3.4GHz
[22:55] <LeoBodnar_> Oh, cantennas!
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[22:55] <adamgreig> yup
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> adamgreig, can I tell you a remark about KiCAD?
[22:55] <adamgreig> easy to make, cheap parts, should be reasonably ok
[22:55] <adamgreig> you may Lunar_Lander
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> I changed a connector in the schematic
[22:56] <adamgreig> ok
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> from 6-pin to 8-pin
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> then made a annotation and netlist
[22:56] <adamgreig> yup
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> and then changed the footprint in cvpcb
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> to SIL-8
[22:56] <adamgreig> so far so good
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> then read the netlist in pcbnew and it screwed up
[22:56] <adamgreig> how did it screw up?
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> complained about mismatches
[22:56] <adamgreig> hmm
[22:56] <adamgreig> well
[22:56] <adamgreig> when you read the netlist
[22:56] <adamgreig> there are some options
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> that we have a SIL-6 there and a SIL-8 in the file
[22:57] <adamgreig> like whether to replace modules if changed
[22:57] <adamgreig> so you can just tick the 'replace changed modules' thing
[22:57] <adamgreig> and it should be ok
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I solved it the following way
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I deleted the SIL-6 socket in pcbnew and added a SIL-8 socket
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> and then it was OK
[22:57] <WillTablet> Hallo Lunar_Lander
[22:57] <WillTablet> How are you yah?
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> fine and you?
[22:58] <WillTablet> Not bad
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear
[22:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Right I'm off see you lot in the morning!
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> night Geoff-G8DHE
[22:59] <WillTablet> Urgh the age old dilemma- to order PCBs or not to order PCBs
[22:59] <WillTablet> I can't afford it really, not with the ublox, and also the cost of my ham radio stuff.
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> its levelling off
[23:01] <ike> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=8
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/B-11_20130901/index.php?ind=8
[23:01] <WillTablet> Laurenceb_ what is?
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[23:03] <LeoBodnar_> Yeah, looks like it
[23:04] <LeoBodnar_> Going up
[23:04] <ike> it's heading to africa
[23:05] <ike> ... btw how are you tracking it?
[23:05] <ike> with car or some kind of neutrino ray?
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[23:07] <LeoBodnar_> Can you see the map ike? http://spacenear.us/tracker/ If you hover over the track you can see who has received the reports from that position.
[23:07] <LeoBodnar_> It's 434MHz ISM band
[23:10] <ike> who is this guy G4MYS
[23:10] <ike> and how did he do it
[23:14] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[23:15] <daveake> aerial + radio + dl-fldigi. Usual stuff.
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> if you mean 'how did he recieve outside the circle' - sea-bounce and a small hill can do that near the coast
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[23:17] <SpeedEvil> i cna't imagine him getting many more sentances
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> oh - it was an hour ago
[23:17] <ike> yes sound like a magic
[23:17] <ike> aren't there stations in france?
[23:18] <daveake> radio is magic
[23:18] <ike> are there people from france?
[23:18] <daveake> yes
[23:18] <ike> are you near Position: 49.3297,1.1105
[23:20] <daveake> I think you misunderstand. There are peole in France who come here (though not often) and do track. I'm not one of them.
[23:20] <mattbrejza> SpeedEvil: UTC...
[23:20] <mfa298> nI don'y think G4MYS has much of a small hill, but from what he's said before he's got Southampton water in his favour in that direction
[23:20] <mattbrejza> my elevation is -.2
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> doh
[23:21] <WillTablet> Is it possible to crowdfund textbooks?
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: sure.
[23:21] <mattbrejza> im using a colinear ontop of a 4-5 storey building
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: what do you mean by that?
[23:21] <WillTablet> I so want one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classical-Mechanics-8-01-MIT-Edition/dp/1119918022
[23:21] <mattbrejza> short bit of fat coax, ft817
[23:21] <WillTablet> I can't afford it.
[23:21] <WillTablet> Can I crowdfund it?
[23:22] <mattbrejza> tried a library?
[23:22] <WillTablet> Actually my parents probably think it's dodgy
[23:22] <WillTablet> No.
[23:22] <LeoBodnar_> I was thinking about getting ft817. ANy major reasons not to mattbrejza ?
[23:22] <WillTablet> Isn't worth looking,
[23:22] <mattbrejza> its like the internet but on paper and you can take it home
[23:22] <WillTablet> My library is useless.
[23:22] <mattbrejza> well LeoBodnar_ it works fine, if you only want to rx there are probably cheaper options
[23:22] <LeoBodnar_> You can probably order books they don't have
[23:23] <mattbrejza> also i only use it remotely
[23:23] <WillTablet> Full of *pre cleans mouth* fiction *cleans mouth and spits out*
[23:23] <adamgreig> ft817 is perfectly nice for hab stuff if you have nothing else
[23:23] <LeoBodnar_> Rx/Tx
[23:23] <adamgreig> it's pretty sensitive
[23:23] <ike> WillTablet CM sux, better invest in QM
[23:23] <mfa298> ft817 is good for HAB and for low power TX
[23:23] <adamgreig> but it's very low tx power
[23:23] <mattbrejza> reasonably portable if you want to chase too
[23:23] <adamgreig> really handy for taking out with you when chasing payloads
[23:23] <adamgreig> battery powered and lightweight
[23:23] <WillTablet> LeoBodnar_ only if another library has it
[23:24] <LeoBodnar_> OK, I am convinced!
[23:24] <mfa298> chances are there will be several ft817's at the conf if you want a play
[23:24] <mattbrejza> the horizon is coming back
[23:25] <mfa298> working the world on ssb with it might be a challenge - but people have done it - you just need a good antenna.
[23:25] <mfa298> digital modes should work better. A few of us managed a few contacts on PSK31 on 20m without really trying on my 817
[23:26] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/dWGMfmp.png domex16 @ -0.2 elevation
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: A major issue with interlibrary loan of textbooks is that the textbooks may not in many cases then be taken home - you can only look at them in the library
[23:27] <LeoBodnar_> Very clean waterfall
[23:28] <mattbrejza> good thing you didnt choose .075
[23:28] <mattbrejza> there is an annoyig weatherstation on the same roof
[23:29] Action: mfa298 considers turning on the ts2000 to fix that clean waterfall
[23:29] <mattbrejza> currently at 7dB SNR btw
[23:29] <mattbrejza> but getting stronger than it was
[23:29] <ike> LeoBodnar_ what is the frequency of B11?
[23:29] <WillTablet> Barnes and noble have for $40
[23:29] <LeoBodnar_> 434.500MHz ike
[23:29] <mattbrejza> oh wait there are two s/n numbers :/
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: Also - why that particular book?
[23:30] <WillTablet> I'm doing the edx course
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[23:31] <LeoBodnar_> Horizon is creeping back
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> It's likely most any classical mechanics book will be mostly usable
[23:31] <LeoBodnar_> Is there HAB life in France?
[23:32] <WillTablet> Who am I kidding? I can't afford a £70 textbook. Before that I have to cover ham course/equipment, flying lesson, and PCBs. All out of my own pocket.
[23:32] <ike> there is 431.982 - 432.078 MHz online SDR with 25M dish
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: Also - that's not yet released
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[23:32] <mattbrejza> WillTablet: there are other ways to get information on the internet...
[23:32] <WillTablet> My parents won't even chip in ( outside normal pocket money
[23:32] <ike> next time you can try 432.000MHz
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: you may consider asking over in ##physics if they know of any options for freely available textbooks that will be useful
[23:33] <mfa298> WillTablet: welcome to life, for most people there's a balance between what you want to get and what you can afford
[23:33] <WillTablet> Yet they pay for my sister to do some amateur musical with no plotline, about felines.
[23:33] <mattbrejza> http://pirateproxy.se/torrent/3807932/MIT_OCW_8.01_-_Physics_I_Classical_Mechanics_(video_lectures)
[23:33] <mattbrejza> not sure if the same course as the book though
[23:33] <WillTablet> Yeah
[23:33] <WillTablet> It is
[23:34] <WillTablet> Why torrent?
[23:34] <WillTablet> There's a perfectly good ocw site
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> http://archive.org/details/ClassicalMechanics_410 - as a zeroth step
[23:34] <mfa298> ike: we have to use parts of the ISM band that are allowed airborne in the UK. 432MHz isn't part of that.
[23:34] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[23:35] <LeoBodnar_> Oh, wow
[23:35] <ike> mfa298 you are not in Kansas anymore
[23:35] <WillTablet> Man this sucks.
[23:35] <ike> WillTablet you have the whole internet
[23:35] <ike> when I was a kid there was no computers
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:36] <ike> read wikipedia
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Wikipedia is sometimes retarded.
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> But you're going to need to get used to suboptimal sources. They are not going away.
[23:36] <WillTablet> Mhm
[23:36] <ike> if you have questions ask ##physics as SpeedEvil told you
[23:36] <WillTablet> I guess I'll use the online version
[23:36] <adamgreig> it bugs me that the course wants you to have an expensive textbook
[23:37] <adamgreig> yea I'd use the online version
[23:37] <adamgreig> but do check your local or school library
[23:37] <ike> mfa298 so in France can you use 432.000MHz?
[23:37] <adamgreig> there might well be _a_ book on classical mechanics
[23:37] <adamgreig> it hasn't changed much in quite some years
[23:37] <adamgreig> anything from the 60s onwards is likely to cover everything you need to know :P
[23:37] <LeoBodnar_> Another plateau on temperature graph at zero.
[23:38] <mattbrejza> someone has a decent antenna to rx B-11...
[23:38] <WillTablet> I've checked national library records, none in the country just yet.
[23:38] <LeoBodnar_> I guess I can change the TX frequency if flying over France. What benefit would this bring?
[23:38] <mfa298> ike: it maybe possible to use it via an amateur radio license if a) amateur radio is allowed airborne in france and b) the person flying the payload has a Full UK License
[23:39] <LeoBodnar_> I think 432 is not part of ISM band
[23:39] <ike> What benefit would this bring? - webSDR
[23:40] <mfa298> or if 432 is license exempt (ISM) in france - but I thinkthats unlikely
[23:40] <ike> you can track it over internet
[23:40] <LeoBodnar_> ISM starts from 434.05 I think
[23:41] <mfa298> but then if you're using Amateur radio from a balloon (where legal) it would probably make more sense to use aprs
[23:41] <LeoBodnar_> correction - 433.05
[23:41] <ike> 433.050 MHz 434.790 MHz 1.74 MHz 433.920 MHz Region 1 only and subject to local acceptance
[23:41] <adamgreig> WillTablet: none of that specific book but there must definitely be some on classical mechanics
[23:41] <mfa298> I was going to say I thought it was 433.?? but not all of it is airborne or it has other limits (duty cycle, even lower power etC)
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[23:43] <ike> mfa298 what will hapend if you launch HAB from Somalian ship in the channel?
[23:43] <ike> is it illigal then to use 5W?
[23:43] <ike> over France?
[23:44] <mfa298> In international waters I think you're limited to what's allowed in that ITU region although finding that information is difficult.
[23:44] <mfa298> once over france you're probably into french radio laws
[23:44] <ike> and what will hapend if some somaian brake france's law?
[23:44] <mfa298> but 5w, you'll need lots of batteries and a big balloon!
[23:44] <gonzo__> anyone have the B-11 freq?
[23:45] <WillTablet> My library can do international transfers for 10 quid an item.
[23:45] <ike> LeoBodnar_: 434.500MHz
[23:45] <LeoBodnar_> ike you will be breaking French (EU) law but it can only be enforced if you are in France or your country has extradition treaty with France and they send you over.
[23:45] <WillTablet> There's one in California.
[23:45] <mfa298> radio is pretty easy to trace, people even go out and find a hidden radio transmitter for fun
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[23:45] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[23:46] <ike> Somalia don't have extradition treaty with anyone
[23:46] <LeoBodnar_> Then it's HAB paradise.
[23:46] <ike> so it's ok for somaian to launch from somalian ship in the channel
[23:46] <wb8elk> The B-11 balloon just went over Rouen France...I'm copying the signal via the Rouen France internet radio on www.globaltuners.com I can decode the DominoEX16 telemetry that way.
[23:47] <LeoBodnar_> Wow, how where what?!
[23:47] <wb8elk> Hi Leo.....www.globaltuners.com they have internet controlled radio receivers
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[23:48] <ike> this is websdr http://www.websdr.org/
[23:48] <gonzo__> someoen give me a clue on the freq and I'll have a listen
[23:48] <ike> but there aren't many 433 receivers
[23:48] <wb8elk> amazingly Rouen France has one...I can hear the 3-second beeps and am copying the DominoEX using that remote radio. You'll see that I'm reporting on Spacenear.
[23:48] <ike> 434.500MHz
[23:48] <gonzo__> rr ta
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[23:48] <wb8elk> not a WebSDR receiver....Globaltuners
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[23:49] <LeoBodnar_> gonzo__: 434.500MHz USB, DominoEX 16 mode
[23:49] <wb8elk> they are usually not very sensitive radios with poor antennas...but since it just passed directly over the internet radio in Rouen it is audible but weak.
[23:49] <LeoBodnar_> Cool! thanks wb8elk
[23:49] <gonzo__> can hear it weak
[23:49] <wb8elk> it is a free service but you have to sign up for it.
[23:50] <wb8elk> I'll keep monitoring it as long as it is in range of Rouen.
[23:50] <wb8elk> I've built quite a few DominoEX payloads by the way...nice to see you using that mode Leo.
[23:51] <gonzo__> how often is the telem?
[23:51] <wb8elk> I really like the 3-second beeps and the double beeps you send just before the DominoEX
[23:51] <LeoBodnar_> wb8elk: do you have any links to your payloads? spacenear.us does not show you as a reporting station for some reason?
[23:51] <LeoBodnar_> Each 5 min gonzo__
[23:52] <wb8elk> wb8elk on Spacenear
[23:52] <wb8elk> www.wb8elk.com
[23:52] <LeoBodnar_> I might have overdone power saving :) LiPo is still at 3.93V
[23:52] <wb8elk> I'm not copying every frame...I was copying it a few minutes ago and it was showing up on Spacenear as: WB8ELK-FARM
[23:52] <gonzo__> LeoBodnar_, what is the freq of the beep, compared to the dominoex tx?
[23:53] <wb8elk> how large of a LiPo?....and what is your idle and transmit current drain?
[23:53] <LeoBodnar_> Bang in the middle
[23:53] <gonzo__> so I can predice where to set the decode window
[23:53] <gonzo__> rr ta
[23:53] <wb8elk> Are you using the u-Blox MAX-7?
[23:53] <gonzo__> perfect!
[23:54] <wb8elk> I'm showing the signal centered at 1700 Hz in the FLdigi waterfall while tuned to 434.500 MHz USB
[23:55] <LeoBodnar_> LiPo is 190mAh, my average power consumption is about 16mW, idle power is 3mW, consumed TX power is 65mW
[23:55] <LeoBodnar_> MAX-6G
[23:55] <gonzo__> need to kip, but will leave the rx going. good luck
[23:55] <LeoBodnar_> CHeers!
[23:56] <LeoBodnar_> I need to go soonish as well, it's 1AM here.
[23:59] chrisg7ogx (56b270d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.178.112.215) joined #highaltitude.
[23:59] <wb8elk> Hi Leo....the signal has faded away via the Rouen GlobalTuners radio....hopefully it will come back but maybe it is too far from Rouen now
[23:59] <chrisg7ogx> can someone give mr a dial freq for b11 please?
[23:59] <wb8elk> it was fun to hear though.
[23:59] <wb8elk> 434.500 MHz USB....1700 Hz in the waterfall audio
[00:00] --- Mon Sep 2 2013