highaltitude.log.20130831

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[00:11] <niftylettuce> Anyone here fly Bixler 2's?
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[05:48] <x-f> good morning
[05:49] <x-f> what happened to VIEHAB-1?
[05:49] <x-f> good thing they have a backup
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[06:27] <SQ5NWI> Which is the STS-6 freq now?
[06:30] <PE2G> SQ5NWI: 434.095
[06:31] <SQ5NWI> Thnx
[06:31] <PE2G> Correction: 438.095
[06:32] <SQ5NWI> OK ;-)
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[06:41] <craag> Morning all
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[06:47] <x-f> morning
[06:47] <x-f> charolastra, any luck?
[06:48] <charolastra> stayed up too long building the yagi :/
[06:48] <x-f> STS-6 is still going up
[06:49] <x-f> it is on 438.095 apparently
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[07:06] <PE2G> Morning, STS-6 should be on 438.093 with 100 mW, but no trace here yet
[07:07] <charolastra> what are the parameters of STS.6; 300 baud, 500Hz freq. shift?
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[07:08] <PE2G> I think here ara the params: http://stsproject.net/?cat=21
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[07:10] <x-f> woo, 40km
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[07:16] <x-f> woo, 42km
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[07:17] <charolastra> yay, at least partial decodes from STS-6
[07:18] <PE2G> charolastra: Congrats!
[07:18] <PE2G> Is it still on 438.093 ?
[07:19] <x-f> woo, 43km
[07:19] <x-f> charolastra, you build a yagi for this?
[07:20] <charolastra> yes, but it got too late so using the ghetta groundplane now
[07:21] <x-f> GP should be good enough
[07:22] jiffe98 (~jiffe@64.251.173.29) got lost in the net-split.
[07:22] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) got lost in the net-split.
[07:22] <Darkside> burst
[07:22] <x-f> 43835 m
[07:22] <Darkside> not bad :-)
[07:22] <Darkside> at all
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[07:22] <x-f> -128 m/s :]
[07:22] <x-f> -162!
[07:22] <x-f> -153
[07:22] <Joel_re> hey, can someone point me to the string format that the payload should be broadcasting?
[07:22] <Joel_re> can't find it in the wiki
[07:23] <x-f> Joel_re, for example - $$vieHAB-1B,5018,07:22:32,48.295147,18.354158,03207,4.29,08*603E\n
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[07:26] <Darkside> well, this is the new #2
[07:26] <Joel_re> x-f: ok, so its "$$callsign, ?, timestamp, lat, lon, altitude?, temp?,checksum\n"
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[07:27] <x-f> second field is sentence-id
[07:27] <Joel_re> hrm, can I read up on this somewhere?
[07:27] <x-f> Joel_re, you can transmit anything you want
[07:27] <Joel_re> ok
[07:29] <x-f> Joel_re, some more information - http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol - but it's a bit absolete, because habitat (habitat.habhub.org) will parse your telemetry string according to your wishes what you specify by creating a payload document (using genpayload on habitat)
[07:31] <x-f> is it even possible that STS-6 reached 580 km/h on the way down, or the GPS got confused?
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[07:32] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[07:32] <x-f> morning
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[07:52] <x-f> trees are so attractive for HABs - zoom in to the vieHAB-1B landing site :)
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[07:53] <daveake> "Max. Altitude: 1000000 m"
[07:53] <daveake> O rly? :)
[07:53] <daveake> ah wrong viehab :)
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[08:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Morning Guys :-)
[08:18] <DL7AD> morning
[08:19] <DL7AD> Got your Mail Upu . thx ;)
[08:19] <Upu> morning
[08:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Upu and DL7AD
[08:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anything doing today?
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[08:49] <Steve_2e0vet> are there any guides on the wiki how to make a cut down arduino
[08:50] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRZY-Xd5LGg lol
[08:50] <Upu> nice legs
[08:50] <daveake> :)
[08:51] <Upu> shame about the voice
[08:51] <daveake> Comment #2
[08:51] <Darkside> win 24
[08:51] <Upu> lol
[08:51] <Upu> indeed
[08:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> That voice!
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[09:04] <eroomde> i'm so happy great british bake-off is back
[09:04] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: I'm tempted to pick up a couple of those agilent PSUs
[09:05] <eroomde> shame they're so massive
[09:05] <eroomde> but i didn;t realise they could also be constant current loads
[09:05] <eroomde> and the dials are accurate enough that you don't need a mutlimeter
[09:06] <LeoBodnar> I am glad I have managed to convince you eroomde
[09:07] <LeoBodnar> I connect PC via RS232 to them and log V and I to plot the power consumption of portable devices over time
[09:07] <eroomde> i might get them personally
[09:07] <eroomde> would be an easier decision if it was the house's money
[09:07] <eroomde> but twood be mine
[09:08] <LeoBodnar> Over say 12 hours - wIth 12 bit resolution no scope can do it
[09:08] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[09:08] <LeoBodnar> With things like GPS you really need short sample time but long logging period
[09:08] <eroomde> i've been playing with the python scpi (spic? pcsi? spci? nCp{s,p,c,i}
[09:08] <LeoBodnar> I get about 30msec between samples
[09:09] <eroomde> and that's convinced me of the utility (having previously not wanted to go near the gpib ecosystem)
[09:09] <LeoBodnar> I just use VBA
[09:09] <eroomde> NEEEEEVEEEEEERRRRRR
[09:09] <LeoBodnar> Yes, GPIB is a bit of dinosaur
[09:09] <eroomde> tbh at £120 each they're gonna be resellable
[09:09] <eroomde> can you talk me into buying two now?
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> Go and buy two now.
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> I have bought two from this guy. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-6632B-Bench-DC-Power-Supply-0-20VOLT-5-AMP-Programmable-/350858191596?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item51b0c722ec
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[09:11] <eroomde> yes he's the chap on eevblog
[09:11] <eroomde> cases scuffed he says
[09:11] <eroomde> listing below is 130 inc p&p
[09:11] <eroomde> and no mention of scuffs
[09:11] <eroomde> though of course that doesn't mean there are no scuffs
[09:12] <LeoBodnar> PM him and offer to buy two for £100 each and say that Leo Bodnar recommended him.
[09:12] <eroomde> ok
[09:12] <LeoBodnar> MIne a scuffed from the top not front panel.
[09:13] <eroomde> that's fine
[09:13] <LeoBodnar> are
[09:13] <eroomde> do you pm via 'make an offer' or is there some separate mechanism?
[09:13] <eroomde> my ebay foo is low
[09:13] <LeoBodnar> £100 each. Have you still not bought them?
[09:13] <eroomde> well it's not instant if i have to make an offer :)
[09:14] <eroomde> ping re above q
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[09:15] <LeoBodnar> Name is Kev, 0777 565 2636 / Kevin Jarman Design Services Ltd / kev_spikeyhead2@hotmail.com
[09:17] <LeoBodnar> My 1st one got an encoder damaged in transit so I emailed Kev and he said he will send replacement and collect at his cost. By the time he replied I have already took it apart and fixed it. I asked him if he can sell me another one at discount. Yep. £90 delivered.
[09:17] <eroomde> offer submitted
[09:18] <eroomde> woop
[09:18] <eroomde> this does seem like a great offer
[09:19] <LeoBodnar> I am surprised you even think eroomde. It's like free considering it is Agilent / HP.
[09:19] <eroomde> yeah but i'm still a startup
[09:19] <eroomde> so just cash-flow for me personally is tricksie
[09:19] <LeoBodnar> I am self-employed altogether.
[09:19] <eroomde> we have all this funding but it doesn't actually arrive until financial year 2014, i.e. april
[09:20] <eroomde> but i reason these are a fine investment
[09:21] <LeoBodnar> It's like gold bullion. True value of things.
[09:21] <eroomde> suspect these will appreciate if this seem of PSUs they've obviously found dried up
[09:22] <eroomde> was there some production environment that used 2000 of them or something?
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[09:22] <LeoBodnar> Yes, they are routinely used in testing finished products because they were designed for that.
[09:23] <eroomde> i don't atm have a psi where i can easily add say 1-2mV and trust that that'll be the case
[09:23] <eroomde> will be useful for VCOs and so on
[09:23] <LeoBodnar> Hell, good Fluke multimeter costs 4 times that
[09:23] <eroomde> yes!
[09:23] <eroomde> the most i've spent with my own money was my fluke 87 multimeter
[09:24] <eroomde> have a couple of nice bench ones at work
[09:24] <eroomde> 24410 and an equivalent fluke
[09:24] <eroomde> 34410*
[09:24] <eroomde> i'm glad these PSUs have sense
[09:24] <LeoBodnar> Are you a sort of shareholder or employee at your place?
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[09:26] <eroomde> pm
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[09:27] <LeoBodnar> It's good that it has RS232 port. I had to use VBA because I had to also talk to Agilent scope that has GPIB via USB and need massive Agilent bloatware layer.
[09:28] <LeoBodnar> With RS232 you just talk directly to a port in ASCII mode. I use "COMP" protocol
[09:28] <eroomde> yep eprfect
[09:28] <eroomde> much happier with that kind of thing
[09:28] <eroomde> what's the fan noise like?
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[09:32] <eroomde> offer accepted!
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> Fan noise is quite loud but if your load is not high you can turn it off from inside the menus.
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> Sounds like an average desktop PC from 10 years ago.
[09:34] <eroomde> wonder if it can be swapped for a PC one
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[09:35] <LeoBodnar> Definitely.
[09:35] <eroomde> a decent modern PC one
[09:35] <eroomde> wow exciting
[09:35] <eroomde> ok now i'm tied to only getting nice stuff and slowly building up my home lab
[09:36] <eroomde> next stop, HP 3458
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[09:51] <Ferran> hi
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[09:52] <eroomde> greetings Ferran
[09:52] <jcoxon> morning eroomde
[09:52] <Ferran> hello eroomde
[09:52] <Ferran> Hello all, from Spain
[09:53] <Steve_2e0vet> morning
[09:53] <eroomde> nice Ferran
[09:53] <eroomde> bet it's not autumn yet there
[09:53] <eroomde> yo jcoxon
[09:53] <jcoxon> eroomde, not sure if i said but I got rtty working on hte F4
[09:54] <eroomde> grand!
[09:54] <eroomde> i just bought pair of power supplies
[09:55] <Ferran> i do you, back on one hour, bye
[09:56] <eroomde> i was just being friendly, please don't read too much into it
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[10:07] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2KcZGwntgg&feature=player_embedded#t=178
[10:07] <eroomde> fascinating
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[10:15] <SpeedEvil> A surface roughness of a wafer of 10^-19m seems unlikely
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> - 4:20
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> interesting infeed
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[10:22] Action: jcoxon is starting on his presentation for the conference
[10:22] <eroomde> same
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[10:22] <jcoxon> i think mine might be easier
[10:22] <eroomde> same
[10:22] <mfa298> eroomde: thats a good find
[10:23] <eroomde> yeah
[10:23] <eroomde> the crystal growing bit is wonderful
[10:23] <eroomde> had no idea how that was done
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[10:32] <LeoBodnar> The humans are dead. Binary solo: 0000001000000100000110000001 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64
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[10:43] <jcoxon> oh dear, there goes my plans for doing hte presentation now
[10:43] <jcoxon> my seeedstudio package has arrived
[10:43] <eroomde> lol
[10:44] <darkstar-20011> Anybody have a feel for what SNR you need to get 600 baud RTTY reliably decoded?
[10:45] <jcoxon> eroomde, 4x RfBees
[10:45] <eroomde> ah super
[10:46] <jcoxon> busy weekend?
[10:48] <eroomde> writing today
[10:48] <eroomde> out tomorrow
[10:48] <eroomde> walk then bbq
[10:49] <jcoxon> we are doing this this evening: http://www.brunel-museum.org.uk/events/midnight-apothecary/
[10:49] <zsentinel> wish me luck guys, i go for my ham exam today
[10:49] <zsentinel> its the first step needed to do my eventual launch
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: Good luck.
[10:50] <zsentinel> thanks :)
[10:50] <eroomde> that looks great jcoxon
[10:51] <bertrik> is there some kind of known problem of spacenear.us/tracker not showing on chromium/chrome?
[10:52] <bertrik> I only see the spacenear logo and the box with upcoming launches/frequencies, but no map
[10:53] <charolastra_> google product not suporting google product, trololo ;)
[10:53] <jcoxon> bertrik, works for me on chrome (OSX)
[10:53] <eroomde> bertrik: wait for a while
[10:54] <bertrik> maybe it's one of my plugins then
[10:54] <eroomde> does it imply it's loading in the bottom left?
[10:54] <jcoxon> its quite slow right now
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[10:55] <bertrik> I get a "waiting for map.google.com" very briefly in the bottom left
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[10:56] <bertrik> hm, it works in "incognito" mode
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[11:06] <cuddykid> hi all
[11:07] <Joel_re> hey so the habitat code will calculate speed of the balloon
[11:07] <Joel_re> I just need to send lat,lon,altitude?
[11:08] <Joel_re> or do I need to transmit speed from GPVTG data
[11:08] <jcoxon> it calculates ascent and descent rates
[11:08] <jcoxon> if you want ground speed etc it doesn't do it by default
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[11:08] <jcoxon> most people send the field from teh GPS for that
[11:08] <Joel_re> ok
[11:08] <daveake> I send it. Get from the RMC message
[11:08] <Joel_re> just want to be clear about the bare minimum I need to send to have it working with spacenear.us
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[11:09] <daveake> Minimum is payload id, message number, time, lat, long, checksum
[11:09] <Joel_re> ok, thanks
[11:09] <eroomde> but include alt too!!
[11:10] <Joel_re> yep
[11:10] <Joel_re> are there any fixed fields or can they move around
[11:10] <Joel_re> I know it needs to start with payload id and end with checksum
[11:11] <jcoxon> yeah other then that you can rearrange it
[11:11] <jcoxon> we suggest going with the 'ukhas standard'
[11:11] <jcoxon> but thats up to yo
[11:11] <Joel_re> ok
[11:11] <daveake> eroomde oops yes alt :p
[11:11] <eroomde> i remember a launch at ears
[11:12] <eroomde> jcoxon will remember too problem
[11:12] <eroomde> with laurence
[11:12] <eroomde> 'Laurence, [me looking at telex srream] which one in altitude?'
[11:12] <daveake> ha
[11:12] <eroomde> 'oh&. i forgot to include altitude'
[11:13] <eroomde> thankfully he had included 'time until landing'
[11:13] <eroomde> which was just a function of altitude
[11:13] <daveake> haha
[11:13] <jcoxon> oh yes
[11:13] <eroomde> so we just reversed that
[11:13] <jcoxon> was this bluetack launch?
[11:13] <eroomde> no that was a different one
[11:13] <daveake> which was the lost lcd one?
[11:13] <eroomde> don't attach parachutes to payload with bluetak kids
[11:13] <eroomde> ukhas 1
[11:13] <daveake> !!!!!!!!!
[11:14] <daveake> They sell WhiteTak now. Is that OK?
[11:16] <jcoxon> probably
[11:17] <daveake> cool
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[11:23] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[11:27] <jcoxon> okay 6 slides, tis enough for now
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[11:34] <Willdude123> Hi people
[11:41] <beingaware> sup
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[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> Have I got this SD socket the right way round? https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqa4bzqonl8p681/ohyeah%21.png
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[12:00] <LeoBodnar> Oh eroomde, this is LINEAR power supply, not SMPS junk.
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> Has anybody got a link to the Hackvana.dru?
[12:01] <eroomde> yes idneed
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> The one from their website never works, only one from Upu does
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> And I've not got it here :/
[12:01] <eroomde> just make it yourself
[12:01] <eroomde> it's super super trivial
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> the dru? Nah
[12:01] <eroomde> yeah
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> I'd rather get the proper one done by somebody who knows what they're doing :P
[12:02] <eroomde> no
[12:02] <eroomde> this is bullshit
[12:02] <eroomde> no
[12:02] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: haha i have a big motorola linear PSU on my desk
[12:02] <eroomde> none of this is complicated
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[12:02] <LeoBodnar> they don't know what YOU are doing
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> ok, what must I do?
[12:02] <Steve_2e0vet> does anyone kmow of a schmatic for an atmeg328 to build a cut down arduino
[12:02] <eroomde> it's made to sound complicated when people present everything as mysterious black boxes
[12:02] <eroomde> 'just send it to me i'll do it for you'
[12:02] <eroomde> and bollocks like that
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> Ditto Agilent Darkside
[12:03] <eroomde> but providedhackvana has got published his minimum hole and track sizes and so on somewhere, then it's easy
[12:04] <eroomde> so if you click on design rule check you get window with loads of tabs
[12:04] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: this is just a single voltage one though
[12:04] <eroomde> in that window you'll see pictorially what each field means when you click on it
[12:04] <Darkside> 13.8V, 20A
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll have a look
[12:04] <eroomde> basically there are a million different kids of gap - between tracks, between pads and tracks, between holes and tracks, between holes and pads, whatever
[12:04] <eroomde> they all are just whatever the minimum spacing is
[12:05] <LeoBodnar> 20V/5A for trackers development
[12:05] <eroomde> 6mil or whatever it happens to be
[12:05] <eroomde> you'll see an obvious one for drill holes too
[12:05] <eroomde> we can also do something called Tended Vias which you might want, we can cover that once the basics are done
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> Made in U.S.A.
[12:06] <eroomde> that's about the only non-obvious thing to implement in drc
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqa4bzqonl8p681/ohyeah%21.png Is that SD socket the correct way round eroomde?
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[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> it looks strange
[12:06] <eroomde> yep
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[12:06] <eroomde> those lines represent where the edge of the card is in the 'in' position and the 'out' position
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[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[12:07] <eroomde> so you can see they want to be facing the edge of the pcb
[12:07] <eroomde> you might not actually want them on your silkscreen though
[12:07] <eroomde> up to you
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not fussed to be honest
[12:07] <simmo> hello
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[12:12] <ibanezmatt13> What would EEPROM chips be used for generally? I know they are sometimes used to store configuration settings for other devices but what else? Something like this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/525
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> ST strikes again with dysfunctional appnote and useless datasheet.
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[12:17] <LeoBodnar> 1M write cycles
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[12:35] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Has anybody appeared regarding the "Eranu" flight ?
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[12:47] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE-M: is it Uggy ?
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Not sure that was the callsign on one of the tracker reports
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes looks like it all the reports are from uggy
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[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> seems to flown early, came in to try to track it (its a bit north!) but looks like it has already been and gone!
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[12:55] <AdamKissack> I'm currently putting together my arduino GPS tracker using the instructions here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[12:55] <AdamKissack> On the instructions it says to connect pin 13 of the Uno to 'the pin marked RXD'
[12:55] <Darkside> those aren't instructions
[12:55] <Darkside> they are suggestions
[12:55] <Darkside> we expect you to do a bit of reading and figure out what they mean
[12:55] <AdamKissack> Does it mean 'TXD'?
[12:56] <AdamKissack> I can't see anything marked 'RXD' and I want to be sure?
[12:56] <Darkside> it probably is TXD
[12:56] <Darkside> i dont know the code
[12:56] <Darkside> hah yep
[12:56] <Darkside> thats a typo
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[13:04] <eroomde> Darkside: are you in the market for a new psi or did i misconstrue?
[13:04] <Darkside> i am not
[13:04] <Darkside> i have enough
[13:04] <Darkside> my needs are mainly for high current supplies
[13:04] <Darkside> and i have enough
[13:04] <Darkside> i have a 40A switchmode and a 20A linear
[13:07] <eroomde> ah righty
[13:08] <Darkside> need current to put out power on HF :-)
[13:08] <Darkside> 100W linear amp and all
[13:08] <Steve_2e0vet> anyone any idea how much the 16mhz crystals are?
[13:09] <mattbrejza> <£1
[13:09] <Steve_2e0vet> farnella ??
[13:09] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:09] <Steve_2e0vet> farnells even
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> I like Farnella
[13:09] <Steve_2e0vet> dont suppose you know the code lol
[13:09] <eroomde> Darkside: nice! chunky fan i bet
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> La Farnella
[13:10] <Steve_2e0vet> why is La farnella's website so clumsy
[13:10] <eroomde> it can be a frustrating experience
[13:10] <mattbrejza> well package would be a good start
[13:10] <eroomde> you shake the monitor saying 'I KNOW YOU HAVE THIS PART WHY WONT YOU SHOW ME!?!?!'
[13:10] <mattbrejza> go to the crystals page, select 16MHz, and sort by price
[13:10] <eroomde> usually with connectors
[13:11] <eroomde> if it's for tab i wouldn't necessarily go on price
[13:11] <Steve_2e0vet> only 4 of them they start at 1.46, does that sound right
[13:11] <eroomde> get one with a decent temperature coefficient and industrial/automotive temperature rating
[13:12] <eroomde> they don't generate their own heat so they get cold
[13:12] <Steve_2e0vet> only going on price cos i want to try and make a cut down arduino
[13:12] <eroomde> 1.46 sounds right
[13:12] <mattbrejza> when you want a resistor and it brings 230 results sort by price is generally useful though
[13:12] <eroomde> sure, but if it's a tab arduino then bear the temp ratings in mind. that's all
[13:12] <eroomde> mattbrejza: yes for sure
[13:12] <Steve_2e0vet> mattbrejza, not if they are all 99p
[13:12] <eroomde> i usually just use multicomp
[13:13] <Steve_2e0vet> would this do the job for an arduino http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/dxo57-16-50-t-3-3-ts/oscillator-dxo-57-16-0mhz/dp/1667032
[13:13] <eroomde> certainly yes BUT note the minimum temp
[13:13] <mattbrejza> if you want to keep the price down http://uk.farnell.com/txc/7a-16-000maaj-t/xtal-16-000mhz-18pf-smd-5-0x3-2/dp/1841946RL
[13:14] <Steve_2e0vet> when i look at that one, it says "this is an alternative" and its a can, why didnt it show me that in the first place
[13:14] <LeoBodnar> Multicomp is private Farnell label probably made by Chinese kids. I prefer branded ones.
[13:14] <eroomde> didn't know that
[13:14] <Steve_2e0vet> mattbrejza, what did you type in for that... price isnt a problem, but just concerened i am searching with the wrong keywords
[13:14] <eroomde> i usually (always) go big-name for caps as it seems there's much more scope to go wrong
[13:15] <eroomde> usually panasonic
[13:15] <mattbrejza> 'crystal'
[13:15] <eroomde> but resistors i've never been so discerning
[13:15] <bertrik> bah, forgot all about today's launches
[13:15] <eroomde> unless it's like some vishay metal foil thing for £10 for some precise bit of instrumentation
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[13:18] <Steve_2e0vet> is it just operating temp that needs to be considered when buying the crstals
[13:18] <eroomde> accuracy too
[13:18] <eroomde> stick to < 20ppm if you can for a normal crystal
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[13:19] <eroomde> and also temperature coefficient - how the freq drifts with temp - a similar number or better ideally
[13:19] <Steve_2e0vet> ok, thanks. what does the crystal actually do/perform? (electronics isnt my strong point.... yet)
[13:19] <eroomde> we think there was a floater balloon failure a few years ago because the atmega crystal drifted relative to the gps crystal and so the serial link failed
[13:20] <eroomde> i.e. it thought the baud rate was right but actually it drifted relative to the gps's baud rate
[13:20] <eroomde> it's a perfectly good question!
[13:20] <eroomde> the crystal is the heartbeat for microcontroller
[13:21] <eroomde> the micro controller is full of transistors arranged into gates, registers, memory and so on
[13:21] <eroomde> instead of letting them all just do their thing is an analogue way, asynchronously, changing whenever they want, they are arranged in circuits so that the only change state when they get a pulse telling them to do so
[13:21] <Steve_2e0vet> +-50 too high then
[13:22] <eroomde> that pulse needs to be provided by something, and that something is the crystal
[13:22] <eroomde> which provides a regular number of pulses per second
[13:22] <eroomde> so for example with serial comms, say you pick 1MHZ serial comms, and you have a 16MHz crystal, the serial port will be told to send a new bit every 16 pulses it gets from the clock
[13:22] <eroomde> just for example
[13:23] <eroomde> +/- 50 ppm could be a bit high.
[13:23] <eroomde> serial comms can accept some error/mismatch in baud rate. just not too much :)
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> 10% is always too high. 5% may work most of the time, if the other end is accurate. 1% is fine
[13:24] <Steve_2e0vet> its all a (huge) learning curve
[13:24] <eroomde> yep!
[13:24] <eroomde> it is
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> If it's not working at 1% - it's likely that there is some fault.
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> For example - the frequencies are not what you think they are
[13:25] <eroomde> but best to just enjoy the ride rather than keep looking at how far away the summit still is :)
[13:27] <eroomde> if you want a recommendation, i thought a book (free online too) called The Elements of Computing Systems is *fantastic*
[13:27] <eroomde> http://www.nand2tetris.org/
[13:27] <eroomde> watch the vid
[13:27] <eroomde> it's not actually hugely time consuming
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[13:27] <eroomde> and it's probably the best introduction to the whole field you could hope for
[13:33] <Steve_2e0vet> 4mins in.. it looks pretty good
[13:35] <eroomde> it's very good for understand computing from top to bottom. never goes into too much depth in any one specific area, it just fixes in your head howe everything works and fits together from transistors to high level programming languages
[13:40] <Steve_2e0vet> do you actually build a computer at the end of it
[13:40] <eroomde> on their simulator, yep
[13:41] <Steve_2e0vet> argh not physically then
[13:41] <eroomde> nope
[13:41] <eroomde> though you could definitely go and use what you learnt to build one
[13:41] <eroomde> out of 7400s logic gates
[13:41] <eroomde> 1970's mainframe style
[13:41] <darkstar-2001> Anybody have a feel for what SNR you need to get 600 baud RTTY reliably decoded?
[13:42] <eroomde> or put one on an FPGA (which are amazing devices)
[13:42] <Steve_2e0vet> is this the atmega needed to build an arduino like flight controller http://uk.farnell.com/atmel/atmega328p-pu/mcu-8bit-avr-32k-flash-28pdip/dp/1715487
[13:43] <eroomde> yep
[13:43] <Steve_2e0vet> or the smd one i presume
[13:44] <eroomde> yep. any of the flavours should do the job
[13:45] <mfa298> darkstar-2001: I've not really taken note of what the snr is when I've had (or not had decodes) but 15dB+ is probably a good place to aim.
[13:45] <mfa298> dont forget you need to increase the filter bandwidth in dl-fldigi for higher baud rates
[13:46] <darkstar-2001> mfa298: OK - that fits in with what I was seeing. I got around 10dB (I'm over in cambridge - a far way away) and was sometimes getting the odd partial packet decoded.
[13:47] <darkstar-2001> Just wanted to check I wasn't doing something stupid.
[13:48] <darkstar-2001> (Was replaying the TED launch from earlier this week)
[13:50] <mfa298> you might find changing some of the settings helps, recieve filter bandwidth is the main one for higher baud rates.
[13:50] <mfa298> the shift can change sometimes during the flight so that may help.
[13:51] <darkstar-2001> Yeah, was tweaking all the settings and seeing what helped..
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[14:18] <Piet0r> Hi
[14:20] <eroomde> greetings Piet0r
[14:21] <Piet0r> I am trying to select the best powersource for my HAB
[14:22] <Piet0r> Would these batteries be a good choice: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/900-mA-3-6V-Li-ion-rechargeable-lithium-battery-affordable-and-durable-/231037883028?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item35caee5294&_uhb=1 ?
[14:22] <eroomde> energiser lithium ultimate cells (AA or AAA or PP3) are basically the defacto standards here
[14:22] <eroomde> we generally don't use rechargeable
[14:23] <eroomde> their performance at low temperatures is poor
[14:23] <Piet0r> Yeah I was looking at the wiki on ukhas.org.uk
[14:23] <Piet0r> Lithium Thionyl Chloride is supposed to be the best compound
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[14:26] <Piet0r> Pretty expensive batteries those Energizers :/
[14:26] <eroomde> yep
[14:27] <eroomde> worth it though
[14:27] <eroomde> just consider it a tab running cost
[14:27] <eroomde> like helium
[14:27] <eroomde> hab*
[14:27] <Piet0r> True
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[14:33] <daveake> Money well spent guaranteeing that the batteries won't be a problem
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[14:33] <Willdude123> Would anyone mind checking my gerber files are good to send?
[14:34] <Willdude123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/WILLSHAB%20%28V0.999999%29.rar
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[14:34] <Willdude123> Wait zipped version here : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/WILLSHAB%28V1.0001%29.zip
[14:34] <eroomde> http://gerblook.org/
[14:35] <eroomde> this makes it easier to share^
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[14:42] <Steve_2e0vet> anyone got an atmega328 to had and a multimetere
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[14:42] <Laurenceb_> waut wtf
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> is STS6 real?
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> new world record?
[14:44] <eroomde> linky
[14:44] <eroomde> ]no context
[14:45] <chrisstubbs> blimey, looks like it!
[14:45] <chrisstubbs> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[14:46] <chrisstubbs> not quite a record according to arhab
[14:47] <LeoBodnar> Descended in about 30 minutes?
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> beat XABEN
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> not quite passed belle mondo
[14:49] <jcoxon> hey LeoBodnar
[14:49] <LeoBodnar> hey
[14:49] <eroomde> 43385 is not a record is it?
[14:49] <eroomde> thought we were in the 44s
[14:49] <x-f> second place :/
[14:50] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, just got a GPRSbee, quite mini
[14:50] <jcoxon> might actually fit onto a pico
[14:50] <LeoBodnar> What is the power requirement?
[14:50] <jcoxon> well it would need a lipo
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> 2A?
[14:51] <jcoxon> requires 3.7v
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> Peaks
[14:51] <jcoxon> at times yeah
[14:52] <jcoxon> would be an interesting experiment
[14:55] <LeoBodnar> Will it fit onto a smaller PCB? http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-1/Images/1.jpg
[14:57] <jcoxon> oh hey
[14:57] <jcoxon> i remember that
[14:57] <LeoBodnar> I have never tried the the GPRS :) It is a massive power hog
[14:57] <jcoxon> probably not
[14:58] <jcoxon> the first pico flights from teh states were GSM based
[14:58] <jcoxon> did MMS as well as SMS
[14:58] <jcoxon> they had a downward facing yagi
[14:58] <LeoBodnar> Solar panel might work though as there is an excess of power during the day.
[14:59] <jcoxon> nevere going to be as light as a radio based board
[15:00] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, loses the beauty of minimalism
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[15:01] <jcoxon> any flights planned?
[15:01] <LeoBodnar> It would be cool to send up a tracker without an MCU. Just GPS 1PPS signal -> TX keying. Position calculation via triangulation.
[15:02] <LeoBodnar> From me?
[15:02] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:02] <LeoBodnar> Maybe tomorrow. Need to check winds.
[15:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:04] <jcoxon> i've found ground winds to be a bit blustery recently
[15:07] <LeoBodnar> There is also MotoGP this weekend on the circuit. I'll see if I can get there tomorrow, they are probably also using my Launchpad A place :)
[15:08] <Willdude123> Steve_2e0vet, Ebay is good for multimeters
[15:08] <LeoBodnar> Half-filled foil ballon in blustery surface wind is quite a challenge to launch. Definitely not a Zen experience.
[15:09] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, indeed, you should try ZP balloons in any wind at all
[15:10] <Willdude123> Can I just put CC-BY 3.0 on my board?
[15:10] <Willdude123> Do I need a logo/link?
[15:10] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3290736414/in/set-72157614028027899
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[15:11] <eroomde> Willdude123: suspect it's not a legs requirement
[15:11] <eroomde> er, legal
[15:11] <Willdude123> Meh I'll remove it
[15:11] <Willdude123> Nobody's gonna copy it
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[15:11] <LeoBodnar> beautiful
[15:12] <eroomde> that gallery is the good shit isn't it
[15:12] <jcoxon> i think that one got a leak and dragged for 3 miles
[15:12] <jcoxon> across an airport
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[15:14] <Willdude123> http://gerblook.org/pcb/XktBxwoLXvVcv7tavAQXAB
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[15:15] <LeoBodnar> I have been thinking about legal implications of having a floater with a camera on it flying into another country's airspace.
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> GPS tracker is quite innocent.
[15:15] <eroomde> looks good Willdude123
[15:16] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, guess it depends which country
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[15:16] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[15:19] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: how do you control the filling of these balloons - via neck lift or gas volume/weight?
[15:20] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[15:20] <jcoxon> gas volume
[15:20] <jcoxon> they measure how much is left in their super helium tanker
[15:20] <Willdude123> What thickness should I go for?
[15:20] <jcoxon> they had 2x of these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3290746460/in/set-72157614028027899
[15:20] <eroomde> 1.6 is normal
[15:21] <jcoxon> eroomde, what was your first launch you worked on?
[15:21] <eroomde> nova 2
[15:21] <LeoBodnar> Are you launching any foil ones any time soon?
[15:22] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, ummm no plans currently
[15:22] <jcoxon> got a few too many projects on the go
[15:23] <eroomde> tell me about it ^
[15:23] <jcoxon> indeed
[15:25] <eroomde> i was irc for nova 1 iirc
[15:25] <eroomde> and nova2 was just after matriculation
[15:25] <eroomde> cos i remember meeting you james IRL in like 1st week of term
[15:25] <eroomde> having known you on irc. i think that's how it was anyway. hazy!
[15:26] <jcoxon> yeah sounds about right
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[15:26] <jcoxon> ping Laurenceb
[15:27] <eroomde> you had launched 1 or 2 by then?
[15:27] <eroomde> and LB had launched
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> What balloons ten to reliably reach highest altitudes before bursting? Or are the alt records just tails of Gaussian distribution?
[15:27] <LeoBodnar> *tend
[15:27] <jcoxon> howyee 1600
[15:28] <jcoxon> i think it was the 2011 batch
[15:28] <jcoxon> eroomde, yeah i had launched 3 by then
[15:28] <eroomde> yeah there was an amazing string of alt records being broken
[15:28] <eroomde> we went from breaking 40km to the current record all in like 1yr
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[15:29] <LeoBodnar> I am getting slightly interested
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[15:30] <eroomde> is 3 the one that didn't phone home?
[15:30] <jcoxon> no it was 2
[15:30] <jcoxon> 3 was recovered
[15:30] <jcoxon> but i shall talk all about that in a weeks time :-)
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[15:30] <eroomde> >25km was decent. >30 was pretty cool
[15:30] <eroomde> 30 was the threshold for cool
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[15:31] Action: jcoxon looks up something for nostalga's sake
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[15:31] <LeoBodnar> Have you treated latex in any way?
[15:32] <eroomde> what was that?
[15:32] <jcoxon> oh i haven't found it yet
[15:32] <jcoxon> unfortuantely i suspect by the time i do the moment will have passed
[15:32] <eroomde> i'll go into hibernation mode
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[15:39] <jcoxon> eroomde, nah can't find it
[15:39] <eroomde> what was it?
[15:39] <jcoxon> it was the conversation with natrium42 about changing the little altitude bar from 40km to 50km
[15:40] <Steve_2e0vet> what is the lightest way to make a gps tracker for a pico
[15:40] <eroomde> no one will ever need more than 640k of ram?
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[15:40] <Steve_2e0vet> or should i say which gps module do people use
[15:40] <eroomde> fewest components as tightly as possible on a thin pcb
[15:40] <eroomde> max-7
[15:42] <jcoxon> picos aren't the best thing to start with
[15:43] <jcoxon> bbl
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[15:43] <Steve_2e0vet> i dont want to wait 4 weeks.....
[15:44] <eroomde> yeah picos are trickie
[15:44] <Steve_2e0vet> i just fancied popping down the local balloon shop and getting a foil (or latex) and using one of the many trackers i have built
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[15:48] <eroomde> well i think they're good for like 50g
[15:48] <eroomde> especially if you tie a few together
[15:48] <eroomde> so it might not be some leobodnar super-long-life extravaganza
[15:48] <eroomde> but yeah you could certainly just get something up for a couple of hours, for sure
[15:49] <eroomde> nothing like real flight time to prove stuff!
[15:51] <charolastra_> you really have a local balloon shop?
[15:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> charolastra_, http://goo.gl/maps/9yR45
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[16:04] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[16:07] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Forget hyperloop - this is the future of transport. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfiAmuOp5c
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[16:16] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[16:19] <Steve_2e0vet> ping chrisstubbs
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[16:43] <Steve_2e0vet> what frew is peaksky on?
[16:43] <jdtanner> It isn't ... I'm testing
[16:44] <jdtanner> And forgot to disable dl-fldigi "online" mode
[16:44] <jdtanner> :/
[16:44] <Steve_2e0vet> dam!! its nearly over me, it would have been the first balloon i tracked
[16:45] <jdtanner> Are you in Derbyshire?
[16:45] <Steve_2e0vet> no bit further north Huddersfield
[16:46] <jdtanner> Ah :) Well, I'm please to announce that the PeakSky tracker is built...finally!
[16:46] <jdtanner> Just in time for the weather to change lol
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> sup
[16:48] Action: Laurenceb_ is in Derby
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> but no antenna set up, sorry
[16:52] <jdtanner> No hurry :) I'm only getting weekends at the moment to play so even though the tracker is built, it'll be a while before it is ready to fly :)
[16:56] <Willdude123> I'm bored. There must be some way 13 year olds can earn money online
[16:58] <number10> go for a walk Willdude123
[16:58] <Willdude123> Nah. I'm not that bored.
[16:59] <number10> that will be something to do and you may find it interesting
[16:59] <Willdude123> *bored enough
[16:59] <number10> listen to some music - or read a book
[17:01] <chrisstubbs> pong Steve_2e0vet
[17:02] <Steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs, forgot what i was going to ask you now
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[17:02] <chrisstubbs> Sorry was out on the bike
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[17:02] <Steve_2e0vet> np how much are capacitors normally (that wasnt what i was going to ask)
[17:03] <chrisstubbs> Will do the eagle thing tomorrow with any luck
[17:03] <chrisstubbs> SMD 0603?
[17:03] <Steve_2e0vet> dunno, just on farnells buying a load of bits wanting some and they all seem v expensive
[17:03] <chrisstubbs> Most of my bits are from like selection packs on ebay
[17:04] <Steve_2e0vet> resistors are dirt cheap
[17:04] <chrisstubbs> bbl
[17:04] <Steve_2e0vet> dont suppose you have a schmatic for a cut down version of an arduino
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[17:09] <mikestir> Steve_2e0vet: capacitors vary in price a great deal depending on their characteristics. there are a lot of variables apart from capacitance
[17:12] <Steve_2e0vet> mikestir, yeah ive noticed that
[17:14] <mikestir> the easy one is working voltage
[17:15] <Steve_2e0vet> 40p seams steep
[17:15] <Steve_2e0vet> *seems
[17:15] <mikestir> it is. what's that for?
[17:15] <Steve_2e0vet> looking on farnells for some 10uf
[17:15] <Steve_2e0vet> just to build a cut down arduino
[17:15] <mikestir> through hole or surface mount?
[17:16] <Steve_2e0vet> hole
[17:16] <Steve_2e0vet> my soldering skills are not good enough for smd
[17:17] <LeoBodnar> WHat type - tantalum or ceramic?
[17:17] <Steve_2e0vet> dont know what the difference is
[17:17] <Willdude123> !op (if that works) invite spam by Steffanx
[17:18] <mikestir> is this just in the power supply, as a reservoir capacitor?
[17:18] <Steve_2e0vet> its for this http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone
[17:18] <Steve_2e0vet> yes power supply
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[17:18] <mikestir> just use an aluminium electrolytic
[17:19] <Steve_2e0vet> argh ok
[17:19] <mikestir> but if you get on to making it in SMT I'd probably suggest a ceramic
[17:19] <Steve_2e0vet> SMT?? Can you not tell i am new to this
[17:19] <mikestir> e.g. 945-1056
[17:19] <Steve_2e0vet> brb
[17:20] <mikestir> SMT = surface mount technology
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[17:20] <LeoBodnar> I wouldn't use aluminium electrolytics in extreme temperatures
[17:21] <mikestir> well he linked to a breadboard project, but yes Steve_2e0vet if you are planning on using this for HAB a tant is probably better
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> 40p seems like a reasonable price for 10uF tantalum
[17:23] <mikestir> that's why I'd use a ceramic
[17:23] <mikestir> but no one seems to have bothered improving through-hole ceramic cap technology
[17:24] <mikestir> so it's only really an option in surface mount
[17:24] <LeoBodnar> I don't use much PTH components these days so not sure what the prices are but they are still way more expensive than SMT
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> Mechanical stress from terminals and higher soldering temperatures I guess...
[17:26] <Piet0r_> Did you know you can get an Arduino Mini Pro for $4 ;)
[17:27] <Piet0r_> That's probably lighter then an ATMega 328, a crystal, some caps and header pins
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> Is non-pro smaller and $2 then? :)
[17:28] <Piet0r_> No, weird eh? ;)
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[17:31] <Piet0r_> Does anyone has HAB-experience with these RFM22B RF-units?
[17:32] <number10> Piet0r_: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rfm22b
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[17:34] <Piet0r_> Interesting
[17:34] <Piet0r_> So that makes it also possible to use an nRF905 unit I guess
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[17:49] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/30075?mode=full
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> looks like what you need to make a simulation
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobot
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> Thanks Laurenceb_ good find
[17:53] <Laurenceb_> should be possible to write some sim code by tweaking those equations
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I can't think of a good way of sealing butane containers
[17:57] <LeoBodnar> Does Steve sell sub-2m latex balloons?
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[17:59] <Laurenceb_> containers?
[17:59] <LeoBodnar> Bag
[17:59] <Laurenceb_> you mean the dangling balloon
[17:59] <Laurenceb_> got you
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[18:00] <Laurenceb_> didnt you say you have a heat sealer?
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[18:00] <Laurenceb_> or just freezer bag and kapton tape?
[18:00] Nick change: KyleYankan -> Morbo
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> I have some mylar and kapton
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> im not sure what will see the least solar heating
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> prob polythene
[18:01] <Willdude123> Laurencenceb_ I hear you were bitching about me in ##STM32
[18:01] <Willdude123> :)
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> Polythene is heavy
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> huh
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> oh i guess you can get the RC plane myLAR
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> i have 14micron freezer bags from Wilkinson
[18:03] <LeoBodnar> Yes, and seal with Kapton
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> you only need a 5L bag for ballasting a qualatex
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> 3 or 4 grams of polythene
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[18:14] <Laurenceb_> i guess you could do a heating experiment with mylar and polythene
[18:15] <Laurenceb_> looks like the JPL ALICE project saw a max 10C heating of the gas
[18:15] <Laurenceb_> but the heat exchanger thingy was 20C hotter
[18:15] <Laurenceb_> prob as the wooden rods were absorbing
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[18:17] <Steve_2e0vet> where are the mini pro for 44
[18:17] <Steve_2e0vet> $4 even
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> i think this calls for launching at night with a freezer bag on the bottom
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> to see how it scales down
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> it should be a lot faster, so the rods might not be needed
[18:18] <Steve_2e0vet> ping piet0r
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[18:23] <LeoBodnar> I am sure just a bag should be OK
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> Day launches are a mess temp-wise
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> YOu don't know what is what
[18:25] <LeoBodnar> 10C heating in the main envelope?
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> looks like it from the graphs
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> i guess an additional advantage of this is more lift at launch
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> less risk of crashing
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I like the safety net of some positive buoyancy if stabilising bag loses all butane
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> In fact it will be higher than at launch.
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah, that might burst the mylar
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> At least go with a bang and not sinking cowardly
[18:30] <Laurenceb_> so the helium load will be equivalent to an extra ten grams of payload or so
[18:30] <Laurenceb_> where was your altitude graph for qualatex?
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> Yeah
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/projects:microballoons:foil-floaters-leo.png?id=projects%3Amicroballoons%3Adata that's for the night
[18:31] <Laurenceb_> so 6Km or so
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> high enough to work
[18:32] <LeoBodnar> Looks like it
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> so i guess weight the polythene bag
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> Do you know if you can saturate latex with Helium to reduce mass transfer? It will last for few minutes at these thicknesses?
[18:33] <Laurenceb_> then fill it and calculate mass of butane
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[18:34] <Laurenceb_> id imagine itd last a few minutes if there was any effect at all
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> or even less
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> you can diffuse H2 through thin silicone in hundreds of milliseconds
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I'd be surprised if that
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> its how many H2 sensors work
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> the electrochemical ones
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> Ah
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[18:35] <LeoBodnar> bbl need to go fetch some food
[18:37] <Steve_2e0vet> anyone know if the is an arduino mini pro in eagle
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[18:45] <Felipe__> how is the project?
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[18:53] <wrea> Steve_2e0vet: there might be in the sparkfun libraries
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[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> There's a pin called ADD0 on here and I can't work out what it does: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tmp102.pdf
[18:59] <Steve_2e0vet> wrea, thanks
[19:00] <daveake> address
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: So I don't need to do anything with it, I can just use SCL and SDA?
[19:01] <daveake> It's there for if you want >1 such device on the bus
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> Ah to differentiate between the addresses. Ok, I'll leave it
[19:01] <daveake> You need to tie it high or low (and your choice will change the address)
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> I can't leave it floating?
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/omron-industrial-automation/e3fa-tn11-2m/sensor-photoelectric-20m-npn/dp/2293571
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> nice
[19:02] <daveake> No you can't; reason should be obvious!
[19:02] <Willdude123> Just rediscovered my love for fsx today. It's an amazing game.
[19:02] <Willdude123> Prepar3d looks even better.
[19:02] <ibanezmatt13> Just confusing how in the example schematic they leave it floating
[19:02] <Willdude123> Though the EULA prohibits fun.
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: You fly on Vatsim?
[19:03] <Willdude123> Nope.
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> oh i though it could so distance
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> nvm
[19:03] <daveake> It might have a pullup I didn't check
[19:03] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, do you have FSX?
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: http://www.vatsim.net/ Best thing you will ever do on FSX, full stop
[19:04] <Willdude123> Mhm.
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> not sure daveake, it just looks like it's not connected in the datasheet example
[19:04] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, have you seen Prepar3d before?
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> nope, I lost interest in FSX to be honest when I got into Pi's and things like that
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[19:06] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, do you not do any flight simming anymore?
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> very very rarely, I prefer to fly the real things tbh
[19:07] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, No, it's shown as grounded
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> Is that what that circle means?
[19:07] <daveake> that one just names the pins it's not a circuit
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> oh :/
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> you can see my ability to read a datasheet then
[19:08] <daveake> It says to connect it to "add0" without saying what that is
[19:08] <daveake> i.e. it leaves it up to you
[19:08] <daveake> There's a table to show the address vs what you connect it to
[19:09] <daveake> Anyhoo ground it
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> I was almost going to send it off and then I thought, why not check the connections one last time :P
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> alert is an output pin so I guess I can just leave that floating
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> Ah yes I can, says the datasheet
[19:10] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, how many hours do you have?
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> not enough really
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> probably 10 :P
[19:11] <Willdude123> Don't you have a logbook?
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> sort of
[19:11] <Willdude123> You gonna do a PPL?
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> When I ever get some money, I'd love to
[19:11] <Willdude123> My parents have explicitly said this is a one off thing. It's only because we have airmiles.
[19:12] <Willdude123> So even if I do really like it, they won't let me do it unless I afford it.
[19:12] <Willdude123> *I can afford it
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still looking for the cheapest place to get an NPPL, but everywhere in England is over £7k
[19:12] <Willdude123> LAPLs are a bit cheaper
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> I've currently got about £3.50 in the bank. Not far off
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[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> I've never even heard of an LAPL :)
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna read into it
[19:14] <Willdude123> I could dive into savings, I suppose
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> lucky
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> where can I find a price for a LAPL?
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> a rough price
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> What's the cheapest way to get a licence to fly? Glider/microlight?
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> I don't think gliders need a license to fly
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> Have you soloed yet ibanezmatt13
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> ?
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> not yet LeoBodnar, only just turned 16
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> well, few weeks ago
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> Good luck! It's fun
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure they do need one. If they didn't I'd be flying
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> Go fly then, they don't
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> Neither do paragliders
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> haha, I want to but I can't - insufficient fund
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[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> morning chris_99
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> and chrisstubbs
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> LeoBodnar: Did you pay for your licence?
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> Evening
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs, I want my PPL :(
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> I don't have any. I have about 50 hours and needed to do a checkride but just got bored. The club also sold all Pipers and I don't like Cessnas. Plane is not a bird, it has to have low wing :D
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> So you don't have a licence and you fly when you want?
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> I dig flap lever on Pipers. Manly Grrrrr, not Cessna's microswitch
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> I don't fly when I want
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> haha, it felt wierd doing that in a Cessna :)
[19:48] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: when I was your age I flew gliders a bit
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> What about helicopters? Cheap?
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> Brace: Licence requried?
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure it said you needed an NPPL
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> Good luck with that ibanezmatt13 just double the prices
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> oh, maybe not helis then :)
[19:49] <Brace> yeah you do need a licence
[19:49] <Brace> helis are super expensive
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> "In the UK there is currently no legal requirement for pilots of unpowered sailplanes and self sustaining sailplanes to hold a licence."
[19:49] <Brace> you need a licence for everything apart from paragliders
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> wait, so you don't need a licence, but you do?
[19:50] <Brace> well when you join a club, they put you through a training program
[19:50] <Brace> and you get a logbook etc
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> The club might not let you fly unless you get some association ticket
[19:50] <Brace> it's quite structured
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> But legally you can build a sailplane, jump off a cliff and go soaring in uncontrolled airspace as you please.
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, gliders as in the ones that need a tow plane?
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> with long dihedral wings?
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> bit dodgy though I guess. No power + No fields = BOOM
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> You can stay in thermals until you bladder gives up
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> In the UK, can thermals support you for that long?
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> What about when there's no mountains
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> well, hills
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> Thermals don't need mountains
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> I'm thinking of normal wind being deflected upwards :P
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> that's good
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> Speaking in simple terms each standalone cloud sits on top of a thermal.
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> Warm air rising up, cooling down = cloud
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> Or just follow the birds
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> Gliding does seem dodgy, but I guess if you don't need a license it's worth it for a bit
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Those who do it love it. I can see why
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> Can you land just on a random field or must you land at the airfield?
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> stupid question I guess
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[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> evening Lunar
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> What's a motor-glider? I guess that requires a licence
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Random field is OK if you don't make it to the airfield.
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> I think you are probably right.
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, thinking it is a sailing plane with a motor
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> It's a glider with a small motor - usually with retractable prop.
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah isn't it that the propeller like folds into the back of the plane?
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'll just wait until I've got enough to buy a PPL
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[20:53] <Willdude123> Guys http://imgur.com/6C8G2TL
[20:54] <Willdude123> Done by accident trying to run a VLC web interface.
[20:54] <Willdude123> Can never figure out how to do those.
[20:55] <fsphil> yea it has an ascii output module
[20:55] <arko> looks like an ascii video generated by ffmpeg
[20:56] <Willdude123> Lol
[20:56] <Willdude123> It failed.
[20:56] <Willdude123> But still it's awesome. Will have to find a better web streamer
[21:05] <mfa298> almost as awesome as telneting to towel.blinkenlights.nl
[21:05] <mfa298> although I remember getting ascii mode on vlc many years ago when trying to get vlc to stream from a unix system - i forgot to turn off local display so it used the only method it could
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[21:09] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, that is awesome, had to install telnet to see if it worked
[21:10] <mfa298> if you've got putty you can use that. and if you don't have putty get it (good for ssh/ telnet/ serial)
[21:10] <Steve_2e0vet> just loaded up telnet on win7
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[21:44] <Upu> ping Randomskk_
[21:44] <Upu> no
[21:44] <Upu> sorry
[21:44] <Upu> unping Randomskk_
[21:44] <Upu> ping radim_OM2AMR_
[21:45] <arko> lol unping
[21:46] <Upu> :)
[21:46] <arko> DUDE I HATE THIS HEAT
[21:46] <arko> its like 90% humidity at 34C
[21:46] <Upu> you're going to love it here
[21:47] <arko> monsoon weather
[21:47] <arko> totally am
[21:47] <arko> im looking forward to it
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[21:54] <chrisstubbs> One week! :D
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> arko you are coming to conference?
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[21:54] <arko> yes!
[21:54] <arko> i'm flying out wednesday
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> ah, i wont be there
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> sorry lol
[21:54] <arko> aw
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[21:55] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about tip powered electric turbine helicopters.
[21:56] <arko> it only flys if you give it 20%
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> why not make the entire vehicle a blade
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Helicopter_XH-26_Jet_Jeep
[21:56] <chrisstubbs> Just reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQGvXx4rfUY
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: having aerofoil and craft speed identical is not always desirable
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> nice
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> so spin the wing
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[21:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[22:17] <Randomskk_> Upu: that unping was actually great, my watch unpinged just before I went over to get a computer and find out what it was
[22:17] <Randomskk_> good unpinging is what I'm saying
[22:18] <arko> a new term has been born
[22:18] <mattbrejza> ive been using gnuplot recently, unping seems like a normal thing to write
[22:19] <Upu> lol
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[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[00:00] --- Sun Sep 1 2013