highaltitude.log.20130829

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[01:49] <wrea> Any designs available that use the hx1?
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[03:46] <wrea> arko: next launch at vandenberg is the 10th between 9-11am
[03:47] <arko> ah
[03:48] <arko> i'll be in the uk
[03:48] <arko> o well
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[03:50] <wrea> arko: next launch from there is in Dec.
[03:51] <arko> ohh
[03:51] <arko> nvm
[03:51] <arko> i thought you meant sept
[03:51] <wrea> I did
[03:51] <wrea> Sept 10, then another is Dec
[03:51] <arko> oh sweet
[03:52] <arko> i guess i'll see the dec
[03:52] <wrea> http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html
[03:52] <arko> maybe drive up there
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[03:59] <Stratos> Hi everyone, I am getting ready to do a HAB launch tomorrow.. Anyone have any tips on how to optimize the ascent rate? Our payload is roughly 2kg, the balloon is a 600g ballon ordered from high altitude science (http://shop.highaltitudescience.com/Premium-Weather-Balloon-600g-20001.htm)
[03:59] <Stratos> it says to add 500g positive bouyancy, is that a good target?
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[05:37] <arko> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23869462
[05:37] <arko> Awesome
[05:39] <wrea> Yeah, saw that on reddit earlier today
[05:39] <wrea> Hilarious, the fee to have that like that will probably cost too much to break even though
[05:43] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[05:44] <craag> wrea: Says it only cost him 10 quid +VAT, then he gets 7p a minute.
[05:45] <craag> And he's so far made 300 quid.
[05:45] <wrea> There's usually an annual fee for lines like those
[05:47] <craag> Registration fee is 135+VAT per year.
[05:47] <craag> but
[05:47] <craag> "If youre a provider of only 0871/2/3 numbers, you currently dont have to register,"
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[07:26] <LeoBodnar> mornings!
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[07:28] <craag> Morning
[07:28] <fsphil> morn!
[07:29] <LeoBodnar> void LocalShopStock(void){ butane--;}
[07:30] <LeoBodnar> void FreezerContent(void) { butane++; }
[07:30] <fsphil> error: butane undeclared (first use in this function)
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> declared as volatile earlier
[07:32] <cm13g09> LOL
[07:32] <cm13g09> Morning all
[07:33] <LeoBodnar> morn!
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[07:35] <cm13g09> let my fun involving Windows Server 2012 continue :P
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[07:41] <number10> morning
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[07:42] <x-f> morning
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> m
[07:48] <HixWork> Good dayings
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[07:54] <cm13g09> this saturday looks wet for chris stubbs' potential launch
[07:55] <cm13g09> possibly in terms of launch weather and landing location
[08:06] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[08:07] <arko> morning
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[08:08] <fsphil> evening
[08:08] <LeoBodnar_> summer!
[08:09] <SpeedEvil> dreamtime
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[08:17] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[08:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good day to you fine people :-)
[08:19] <Chetic> g'day mate
[08:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey :-)
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[08:23] <fsphil> summer? that gas has gone to your head LeoBodnar_ :)
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[08:42] <LeoBodnar_> g'day! Yeah, feels like staying in a sleeping bag is better idea than going to work
[08:44] <fsphil> everyone's yawning in the office today
[08:44] <LeoBodnar_> I bought all types of butane they had.The shop assistant asked if I am aware that this gas is for camping. I said never mind, we are just experimenting. Long pause...
[08:44] <fsphil> lol
[08:45] <fsphil> trying to see which one goes highest
[08:45] <LeoBodnar_> "You ARE over eighteen, right?" "Yes, but not necessarily mentally."
[08:46] <LeoBodnar_> I am mid-40 for the records.
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[08:52] <Tom___> Hi, sorry to bother people again! Can anyone recommend a camera suitable for a high altitude balloon? Ideally I'd like to take photos and video - so I'll need two? Are the cheap micro-sd card cameras on eBay normally good enough or do I need something more robust?
[08:54] <fsphil> those little cheap video cameras (the keyring ones) can sometimes interfere with GPS receivers
[08:55] <mfa298> Some of the cheap cameras have been known to interfere with gps
[08:55] <fsphil> for a stills camera, many use a cheap Canon compact, one that runs CHDK
[08:55] <fsphil> with CHDK you can program the camera to take a picture every x seconds
[08:55] <daveake> and choose one that takes AA batteries
[08:55] <Tom___> ah right. that's useful to know
[08:55] <UpuWork> Tom___ Canon A810
[08:55] <fsphil> yes, AA
[08:55] <fsphil> a set of energizer lithiums will work a treat
[08:56] <UpuWork> £30 on ebay
[08:56] <UpuWork> 16mpix
[08:56] <UpuWork> win
[08:56] <daveake> wide angle lens too
[08:57] <Tom___> Just seen that on ebay
[08:57] <Tom___> thanks!
[08:57] <UpuWork> I have JGC's script somewhere thats modified to work with it
[08:59] <UpuWork> ping G0TDJ_Steve
[08:59] <Tom___> Ahhh, so CHDK is a way of hacking a camera. This is getting better and better.
[08:59] <fsphil> yes it makes them programmable
[09:00] <fsphil> which is infinitly useful
[09:00] <fsphil> +e
[09:00] <Tom___> fsphil: that's fantastic
[09:02] <UpuWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgh4u7lrs51xqn7/gaga2.lua
[09:02] <Tom___> Another question, does anyone launch around the north west? I'd love to go to a launch to pick up a few tips and help out in the next few months
[09:02] <UpuWork> I have his permission to share I've been meaning to put it on the wiki
[09:02] <UpuWork> good script as it checks the camera is set correctly
[09:02] <Tom___> UpuWork: thanks for the script!
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[09:26] <fsphil> I'm a bit iffy on lua. definitly much better than ubasic though
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[10:02] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[10:02] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[10:03] <cm13g09> mfa298: to PM so we don't clutter channel
[10:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Its not exactly busy in here cm13g09 ....
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[10:06] <cm13g09> G0TDJ_Steve: I know - but I like to keep channels clean, plus it's non-HAB stuff ;)
[10:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> Fair enough :-)
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[10:12] <Adam012> Hi all, I'm looking to run our 3.3V Arduino flight computer off a single AA. Has anyone used a dc-dc booster/buck booster/joule thief?
[10:14] <craag> yep step-ups are often used
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[10:15] <craag> I used one of these on my first payload http://www.amazon.co.uk/Batteries-Accessories-Boards-PRT-10255-LiPower/dp/B006W979LG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377771298&sr=8-1&keywords=boost+converter+lipower
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[10:18] <Adam012> Looks perfect. Did you need to make any alterations or did it work just as intended?
[10:18] <Adam012> Did you use one L91 AA or two as input?
[10:18] <craag> Worked as intended. I used a single AAA
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[10:19] <craag> I think you can get better performance with 2x in series (for 3V) though.
[10:19] <craag> not performance, efficiency.
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[10:19] <craag> Would still be using it if it wasn't up a tree :)
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> Joule thief sounds naff
[10:20] <Adam012> Thanks for the tip. I'll get one and run a few tests (I don't want it to come down and run out of charge before we are able to find it!)
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> joule thief is basically a term used by people who don't understand how to design boost converters.
[10:21] <craag> Adam012: Yeah, good idea, I got about 6 hours out of one AAA with mine, ran a lot of tests so I could measure the battery voltage and get an accurate 'Time remaining'
[10:21] <LeoBodnar> Must have been invented for a blog a populist maker website
[10:21] <Adam012> I figured that they were the same thing as the terminology seemed to crop up for similar circuits.
[10:21] <Adam012> Thanks for the advice craag
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[10:21] <LeoBodnar> efficiency is better as Vin approaches Vout, then it plummets suddenly
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> Still above 80% usually. Very impressive tech
[10:23] <Adam012> On a seperate note, has anyone used hydrogen instead of helium? How did you go about sourcing a regulator (I'm going to look at the BOC website to see what the thread sizes are for the tank we've been looking at renting) and what information is it most useful to have before I start hunting about for one?
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> You won't derive time remaining from voltage
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[10:25] <SpeedEvil> Well - you sort of can
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> but it takes a lot of work to do well
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> for example if you know impedence spectra vs state of charge, you can invert that to get charge state
[10:25] <LeoBodnar> It's a 3D lookup table + dynamic model = "you can't"
[10:25] <craag> LeoBodnar: Yeah, it got a rough estimate, there was a lot of plateau in the middle and much averaging of samples needed.
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> At a constant temperature yes
[10:26] <craag> It told me whether there was 2 hours left or 30 minutes at least.
[10:26] <craag> And that I wasn't launching a flat battery
[10:26] <craag> That's all I wanted
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> Then just having Vbatt voltage in telemetry is enough - the brain does the rest
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> Or you can use "Coulomb counter" on the "Joule thief"
[10:27] <craag> That's what I did, and then had a little parser page that graphed and analysed it.
[10:28] <craag> (VBatt)
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[10:28] <craag> First flight: https://www.thecraag.com/images/5/5b/CRAAG1_10thOctober_Voltage_Graph.png
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> TI makes some lovely battery charge monitor chips.
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> using them for this sort of application is likely insane overkill
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're using a solar panel - where they may be arguably interesting
[10:29] <LeoBodnar> Lovely - you could have just used a binary flag - battery is present XD
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[10:30] <craag> Yeah..
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> Yes, they are on the ball TI
[10:32] <Adam012> Thanks all, any ideas about a hydrogen regulator?
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[10:34] <Upu-> ping x-f
[10:34] <x-f> hi, Upu
[10:34] <Upu-> pm
[10:34] <x-f> ok
[10:35] <mfa298> Adam012: several people have used H2, I think they've got the Regulator from somewhere like BOC but I think it was expensive - although payback is fairly quick if you're doing several flights
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[10:42] <LeoBodnar> Lovely butane. In and out of the freezer.
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> I note that putting butane in your freezer is not an especially safe thing to do - and may cause nasty odours
[10:44] <craag> Just noticed the AMY-6M ublox on hab supplies..
[10:44] <Upu-> yes...
[10:44] <craag> Looks like max-6 minus tcxo
[10:45] <Upu-> won't be any more coming in
[10:45] <craag> ah ok
[10:45] <Upu-> but just for a few for people to play with
[10:45] <WillDuckworth> ooo - nice and small
[10:45] <eroomde> lovely butane, metered gas // nothing can come between us // when it gets dark i tow your payload away // floating over what was aquitane // when i catch a glimpse of butane // loft up my payload in her litle silver envelope
[10:45] <craag> No power-saving mode on them?
[10:46] <eroomde> doesn't scan as well as the original but i think there's some promise
[10:46] <craag> Not mentioned in product summary under power consumption...
[10:46] <Upu-> not sure entirely you need an external crystal or something
[10:46] <Upu-> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/amy-6m_datasheet_gps.g6-hw-10052.pdf
[10:46] <Upu-> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/AMY-6M-%20Hardware%20Integration%20Manual.pdf
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> Filling plastic bags full of butane and sealing them with heat sealer before freezing draws attention from colleagues.
[10:47] <craag> Thanks! Yeah no powersaving mode.
[10:48] <craag> And that footprint..
[10:49] <WillDuckworth> lots of potential
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> I am toying with severe powersaving projects so AMY probably need to wait until then.
[10:50] <eroomde> are the different to just the chipset used inside some of the integrated modules?
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> I don't understand why they took out powersaving AND tcxo. It's like cutting both legs.
[10:52] <eroomde> if it's just the chip, it's not surprising tere's no xtal
[10:52] <eroomde> and i imagine a lot of the powersaving stuff assumes tcxo
[10:53] <WillDuckworth> has a max-7q been up yet?
[10:53] <eroomde> i've used about 20 7q in anger
[10:53] <eroomde> not on a balloon flight though
[10:53] <eroomde> just for other stuff
[10:53] <eroomde> they work fine
[10:53] <eroomde> although the power save config is a bit esoteric
[10:53] <WillDuckworth> good stuff
[10:54] <eroomde> but i would imagine the assumption of a tcxo would open up a lot of powersave opportuity
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[10:54] <eroomde> inasmuch as you can trust your local time ref and therefore know where to look for correlations within a single chirp
[10:54] <eroomde> and not have to reaquire
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> I thought powersaving does not require TCXO because you maintain permanent correction to XO drift. If it is an ON/OFF regime you have to acquire the time and recalibrate XO every time.
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> I think B-6 was MAX-7Q
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[10:55] <LeoBodnar> The three day one.
[10:55] <eroomde> you can track LO freq easily enough, but if there's phase noise and thermal drift between 'on' periods, that might be enough to throw you off
[10:55] <craag> LeoBodnar: 7Qs are the big ones.
[10:55] <eroomde> i'm thinking hypothetically here, rather than with reference to any specific chipset
[10:56] <Upu-> WillDuckworth whats your payload called ?
[10:56] <eroomde> MAX-7Qs are the same size as all the other MAX's
[10:56] <Upu-> B-6 was a MAX7C
[10:56] <Upu-> no ones bought any 7Q's yet
[10:56] <LeoBodnar> Ah, does 7Q have TCXO?
[10:56] <craag> 7Q is 7C with tcxo?
[10:57] <Upu-> yes
[10:57] <craag> and more pins..
[10:57] <Upu-> but doesn't run at lowever voltages
[10:57] <Upu-> same pins
[10:57] <Upu-> man spelling
[10:57] <craag> oh ok
[10:57] <eroomde> i have bought plenty of 7Qs!
[10:57] <eroomde> just not from you
[10:57] <Upu-> noted..
[10:57] <Upu-> :)
[10:57] <eroomde> well try and change that for the next batch
[10:58] <Upu-> I have them in now
[10:59] <craag> Upu-: The pic you have for the 7Q has 11 pins on the side.
[10:59] <WillDuckworth> upu - my payload is WDHAB - but might give it a whole new refresh
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[10:59] <Upu-> haha
[10:59] PH3V (~renetuijt@ip5456e3dc.speed.planet.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[10:59] <Upu-> yeah getting pictures from the internet...
[10:59] <Upu-> bad
[10:59] <Upu-> its the same
[10:59] <Upu-> cheers WillDuckworth
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[11:25] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: any luck with freezer?
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[11:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have an R820T DVB Dongle. What SDR software would you recommend I use? (It's previously been set up with drivers etc.)
[11:45] <craag> To get started, SDR#
[11:45] <craag> When you're confident, SDR-Radio can do multiple VFOs (so you can listen to several payloads at once)
[11:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's what I@m aiming for Phil
[11:46] <mfa298> sdr# or hdsdr are good starting points. Most people seem to start with sdr# now
[11:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Downloading all three
[11:47] <craag> haha
[11:47] <mfa298> you might need to find extra bits to download for all of them as well.
[11:47] <craag> nothing like throwing yourself into it :)
[11:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Why not
[11:48] <mfa298> although I think sdr# has a setup script to get all the bits you need
[11:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@ll start with that
[11:48] <craag> Yeah, for SDR# download 'sdr-install.zip', extract and run install.bat. Then it's in the sdrsharp folder that'll appear.
[11:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cheers Phil
[11:49] <mfa298> I tend to use sdr-radio and sdr# now. For testing a single payload sdr# is a bit easier to use - I can make the window smaller and it's still useable.
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> Yes, good condensation Laurenceb and almost 30% of volume
[11:49] <Laurenceb> nice
[11:49] <Laurenceb> this is lighter refill?
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> I think it works
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> Yes
[11:49] <Laurenceb> did you get air into it?
[11:49] <Laurenceb> i found it tricky
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> Is its n-butane or i-butane
[11:49] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:50] <Laurenceb> i-butane isnt as nice
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> I have sealed a bag and then stuck a straw into it for filling
[11:50] <Laurenceb> Boiling point: -11.7 °C
[11:50] <Laurenceb> cool
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Also found this: http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance
[11:51] <Laurenceb> yeah i use that regularly :P
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Butane + latex is bad idea
[11:51] <Laurenceb> most of my day job these days is polymer sensor stuff
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> PVC is maybe OK
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Nylon is good
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> WHy not main envelope then?
[11:52] <Laurenceb> does it say on the canister if its n or i butane?
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> Partial pressure will drop anyway
[11:52] <Laurenceb> the helium will lower the vapour pressure
[11:52] <Laurenceb> so it gets all complex and doesnt respond quickly
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> Seems much easier
[11:53] <Laurenceb> you could try simulating it i guess
[11:53] <LeoBodnar> How bad is reaction with latex? does it just migrate through it?
[11:53] <Laurenceb> dunno
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> He/butane latex floater?
[11:55] <Laurenceb> partial pressure is going to get complex
[11:55] <Laurenceb> it prob wont condense at all
[11:55] <Laurenceb> i think you want to use a polythene bag
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2159707/Knife-wielding-mother-high-15-canisters-butane-gas-threatened-cut-daughter-14--like-fish.html
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[11:56] <Laurenceb> wtf url
[11:57] <Laurenceb> is there a link for the canister you have?
[11:57] <Laurenceb> seems like some lighters use iso/n butane mix
[11:58] <Laurenceb> i guess you could purify it using distillation
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[11:59] <LeoBodnar> http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=swan+universal+gas+lighter+refill&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=TzcfUoTlHtKQ7Aa_lIGgBg
[11:59] <mattbrejza> you two are still talking about pico balloons? i thought i should check
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> partially (no pun)
[11:59] <Laurenceb> what star rating is your freezer?
[11:59] <Upu-> pin gcra
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> I think it was -20C when I have measured
[12:00] <Upu-> ping craag
[12:00] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:00] <Laurenceb> itd condense isobutane too then
[12:00] <LeoBodnar> It did not go all flat but pool of liquid formed
[12:00] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:00] <Laurenceb> this might not be so simple
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> How do you calculate liquid-gas equilibrium below boiling point?
[12:01] <Laurenceb> work out the vapour pressure
[12:01] <Laurenceb> then it will be in equilibrium with that partial pressure in the gas above
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[12:01] <LeoBodnar> It's OK. We don't want the balloon to come down at winter or over arctic. -10C or -15C is OK
[12:01] <Laurenceb> seems like there might be other stuff in some lighters
[12:02] <Laurenceb> its not - it wont condense until 8Km
[12:02] <Laurenceb> and not at all with solar heating
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> It says "contains extra refined and purified butane gas"
[12:02] <Laurenceb> has to be n-butane
[12:02] <Laurenceb> haha
[12:02] <Laurenceb> prob bs
[12:03] <Laurenceb> i wonder if theres some safety datasheet stuff for it anywhere
[12:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.defend.com/uploads/files/Ronson%20Butane%20Refill%20MSDS%201-1-2011.pdf
[12:04] <Laurenceb> that looks like pure n-butane
[12:05] <Laurenceb> Vapour Pressure (mmHg
[12:05] <Laurenceb> 1520 @ 18
[12:05] <Laurenceb> o
[12:05] <Laurenceb> C
[12:08] <LeoBodnar> I concur
[12:09] <Laurenceb> looks like swan is made by sievert
[12:09] <Laurenceb> http://www.sievert.se/upload/File/MSDS%20-%202201%20Butane%20gas%20GB%281%29.pdf
[12:09] <LeoBodnar> http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C106978 same Gas Number
[12:09] <Laurenceb> and their gas has other stuff in it
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> THis has a different gas number
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> Wait, canister has a different gas number on it
[12:11] <Laurenceb> your canister?
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> 203-448-7
[12:11] <Laurenceb> oh cool
[12:11] <Laurenceb> you can use this to identify the right canister
[12:12] <gross> hi all, apparently I'm now the proud owner of a shiny new NOTAM. anyone up for the challenge of tracking a flight out of Inverness this weekend?
[12:13] <LeoBodnar> http://www.caslab.com/Butane_CAS_106-97-8/ same
[12:13] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:13] <Upu-> inverness :)
[12:13] <Upu-> may be able to reciever it if you get high
[12:13] <LeoBodnar> CAS Number: 106-97-8 EC Number (EINECS): 203-448-7
[12:13] <gross> yes, that's the first hurdle
[12:13] <LeoBodnar> n-Butane it is
[12:13] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:13] <Laurenceb> ok cool
[12:14] <Laurenceb> maybe theres some air in there
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> Wait' have another one. Bought a few.
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> http://www.campingaz.com/uk/p-22854-cp-250.aspx
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[12:15] <LeoBodnar> isobutane bummer.
[12:16] <LeoBodnar> at least yellow one is n-
[12:16] <mattbrejza> gross: ive done a fair number of launches without internet so and without data from other people, other people listening is more of a backup and to make sure that all the data is collected
[12:16] <mattbrejza> (assuming youre chasing after it)
[12:18] <gross> yes, we'll have a chase car following it.
[12:18] <eroomde> can be a good idea to get someone down the predicted path in advance
[12:18] <mattbrejza> i would guess internet is limited around youre area?
[12:19] <mattbrejza> at least after you get out of the city
[12:19] <eroomde> it's not the easiest terrain to chase on up there
[12:19] <eroomde> we had no phone signal or anything when we did some rocket launches in sutherland
[12:20] <Laurenceb> did you do it in 24 hours?
[12:20] <eroomde> ?
[12:20] <mattbrejza> oh thats where loch ness is
[12:21] <Laurenceb> kiefer sutherland
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[12:21] <gross> 3g should be ok for most of the predicted path.
[12:22] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a predictor that tells you what provider you should use for a given flight.
[12:22] <gross> hopefully get a good photo of loch ness on the way up. (it'll be cloudy though, of course)
[12:23] <mattbrejza> well just make sure you have some sort of map/gps thing that doesnt need internet
[12:23] <HixWork> Another cool image from @AstroKaren http://goo.gl/OT7trD
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/butane.png
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> on a random topic - google maps on android has now hidden the download option
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> open up the search box, and scroll way down past what anyone looks at
[12:25] <Stratos> hello everyone, I am doing a HAB launch today and was just wondering what the best way to optimize the ascent rate. Our payload is roughly 2kg, we are using a 600g weather balloon from high altitude science (http://shop.highaltitudescience.com/Premium-Weather-Balloon-600g-20001.htm).
[12:25] <Upu-> trouble is Stratos
[12:25] <Upu-> unlike Random Engineering we have no idea of the make of that balloon
[12:26] <Upu-> You can use http://habhub.org/calc/
[12:26] <mattbrejza> http://habhub.org/calc/ & http://predict.habhub.org/ Stratos
[12:26] <Upu-> but you reall yneed to know what make it is
[12:26] <Upu-> but try the various makes at that weight and pick somewhere in the middle
[12:27] <HixWork> There could be some use in this idea http://goo.gl/7FBVHS
[12:27] <Stratos> darn.. well we have a 8cu meter tank of helium so the plan was to just fill it up until it provided our payload + 500g of lift, tie it off and let it fly
[12:27] <Stratos> is that a good method? it's recommended on their site
[12:27] <Upu-> normally you want to aim for a 5m/s ascent rate
[12:27] <Upu-> lol
[12:27] <Upu-> seriously
[12:28] <Upu-> it will probably work
[12:28] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: interesting
[12:28] <Upu-> but a bit of a naff way of doing it
[12:28] <Stratos> yea not going for high altitude here, just need to reach atleast 70,000 feet
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> I -butane is steeper
[12:29] <Stratos> we are attempting to fire a small model rocket off the payload box at that altitude
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> Oh god
[12:29] <Stratos> Rockoon attempt :p
[12:29] <Laurenceb> dont forget solar heating
[12:29] <Laurenceb> of up to 15C or so
[12:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Stratos: what area are you in?
[12:29] <Upu-> Stratos a 100g balloon can get that so you should have no issues
[12:29] <Upu-> use the predictor too
[12:30] <Stratos> Ottawa area
[12:30] <Stratos> in Canada
[12:30] <Upu-> oh cool
[12:30] <Randomskk> when you say "small" model rocket
[12:30] <Randomskk> what size motor?
[12:30] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-) Not much chance of me tracking it. I'll watch on spacenear.us if yo'ure on there though
[12:30] <Randomskk> and how are you dealing with the low pressure?
[12:31] Nick change: Upu- -> UpuWork
[12:31] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: why not plot allowable envelope heating versus altitude
[12:31] <Laurenceb> before the butane boils
[12:31] <craag> Yeah I'm interested to know more about how you're stabilising the rocket in flight, do you have a project website?
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[12:32] <Stratos> A-size motor. Not doing anything fancy with the low pressure, just going to see what happens if we were to launch a off the shelf model rocket at that altitude
[12:32] <Randomskk> what fins on the rocket?
[12:32] <Stratos> amentumaero.com
[12:32] <Stratos> it hasn't been updated in a while though
[12:32] <Stratos> but check back a few weeks for the update
[12:32] <eroomde> Stratos, what's the payload mass?
[12:33] <Stratos> about 2kg
[12:33] <eroomde> 2kg with a 100g balloon?
[12:33] <eroomde> was that a type from upu further up?
[12:33] <Stratos> 600g balloon
[12:33] <eroomde> <Upu-> Stratos a 100g balloon can get that so you should have no issues
[12:33] <eroomde> ah right
[12:33] <eroomde> fine
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[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: lookup the temperature for equal pressure and take the diff?
[12:34] <eroomde> i'd use the calculator
[12:34] <Randomskk> what's this "6500m civilian GPS altitude cap" on your site?
[12:34] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:34] <Stratos> just worried about it hovering for too long if we don't fill it enough
[12:34] <eroomde> i don't think it will hover
[12:34] <eroomde> i'd just use the calculator
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[12:34] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[12:34] <eroomde> tell us when us telling you to use the calculator gets annoying
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[12:34] <Randomskk> is there anything inside the rocket to track it?
[12:35] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: I suspect solar heating gets more significant with altitude
[12:35] <Stratos> most gps have an if statement that turns them off when you reach an altitude of 65,000 feet and/or 1000knots
[12:35] <eroomde> 65000ft != 6500m
[12:35] <Laurenceb> you hear of some high altitude stuff suffering melting issues
[12:35] <Stratos> yea the marketing guy is an idiot lol
[12:35] <eroomde> lol
[12:35] <eroomde> ok
[12:35] <Randomskk> haha fair enough
[12:35] <eroomde> some things are universal
[12:35] <Stratos> haha
[12:35] <eroomde> well this sounds cool. how are you launch the rocket?
[12:35] <Randomskk> well, good luck
[12:35] <eroomde> and what igniter are you using?
[12:36] <craag> A-class rocket engine, with tracker, 1000m apogee - something isn't adding up by my reckoning?
[12:36] <Randomskk> any stabalisation on the rocket beyond stock?
[12:36] <Randomskk> big fins, spin etc?
[12:36] <Randomskk> I see the plan is to spin stabalise atlas 3?
[12:36] <eroomde> 1000m from a light A in a low-drag environment seems plausible to me
[12:37] <Stratos> We took two regular ignitors, dipped them in nail polish so the leads don't short if they touch, and placed them in the motor like you usually do with the plug on the bottom
[12:37] <Stratos> yeah the next launch will hopefully have real spin stabilization
[12:38] <Stratos> but we just wanted to see how it went without first
[12:38] <Stratos> thanks guys
[12:38] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[12:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Stratos, when is your launch?
[12:38] <Randomskk> don't forget that fins perform poorly at altitude ;)
[12:39] <mattbrejza> eroomde: yay or nay for: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/571734542/ne-1-rocket
[12:39] <eroomde> 2 igniters should be better
[12:39] <Stratos> Launch was supposed to be in 15 hours, but it looks like it will rain tomorrow so we are bumping it to 5 hours from now
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgDEhLj_ySw - this is off-topic - sorta. Teardown of a helicopter turbine. 1MW/150kg. turbines the size of a dinnerplate.
[12:39] <eroomde> oh god
[12:39] <eroomde> that thing
[12:39] <eroomde> i watched the video
[12:39] <eroomde> i'm sure it's a satire for rocket engineers
[12:39] <eroomde> that engine doesn't even choke
[12:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> stratos - Thanks Good Luck :-)
[12:40] <eroomde> i was like 'how the f can you ignite a rocket engine from outside the chamber?' and the answer is obviously that you stop it from being a rocket
[12:40] <eroomde> it is just a fire-maker
[12:40] <mattbrejza> well dw, it doesnt look like its gonna fund
[12:40] <eroomde> however the russians have done some very interesting work with the outer-wall switl injection
[12:40] <eroomde> which is a lovely idea
[12:40] <eroomde> swirl*
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Porous chamber always struck me as cool too.
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> For cooling.
[12:41] <eroomde> transpirational injection
[12:41] <Laurenceb> lol the diagrams
[12:41] <Stratos> Thanks Steve
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:41] <eroomde> or transpiration cooling
[12:41] <eroomde> yeah
[12:41] <eroomde> that's neat too
[12:41] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[12:41] <Laurenceb> epic lolling at the test
[12:41] <eroomde> you can get some problems though with a very oxygen-rich environemtn up near the oxidiser injector
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[12:42] <eroomde> lolling at the video?
[12:42] <eroomde> yeah
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> it'd be nice if Ir/Rh was cheap
[12:42] <eroomde> he just has burning propellant falling out of a box with a hole in the bottom
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> radiation cooling would be nice.
[12:42] <eroomde> it's not a rocket engine
[12:42] <Laurenceb> second test is slightly better
[12:42] <eroomde> no it's terrible
[12:42] <eroomde> it's not actually doing anything
[12:42] <Laurenceb> better than wikisat
[12:42] <eroomde> there's no shock forming at the throat, it's not actually being a rocket
[12:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50vRoOJKgeY
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: you should totally get your company involved in kickstarter. I'd buy a SSTO for sure, if you can get it under $2000 :)
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> £2000
[12:44] <eroomde> thanks
[12:44] <eroomde> we went for the george osborne version of kickstarter
[12:44] <Laurenceb> actually
[12:44] <Laurenceb> wikisat is kind of running later on
[12:44] <Laurenceb> past about 2 minutes
[12:44] <Laurenceb> nuts
[12:49] <eroomde> the nozzle looks quite overexpanded to me too
[12:49] <eroomde> given his chamber pressure is sort of nothing
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[12:49] <eroomde> but he works for a propulsion company
[12:49] <eroomde> so...
[12:49] <eroomde> might be missing something
[12:54] <Randomskk> you say that
[12:54] <Randomskk> I have met people...
[12:55] <eroomde> indeed
[12:55] <Randomskk> where i can only assume the company is actively encouraging their side projects
[12:55] <Randomskk> to keep them from working on customer stuff
[12:56] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/butane2.png
[12:56] <eroomde> sounds like the ideal company to work for!
[12:56] <eroomde> for the few months until their capital is all gone
[12:56] <Randomskk> his profile pic on kickstarter looks like he's smoudldering into middle distance
[12:56] <Randomskk> mouldering
[12:56] <Randomskk> smouldering
[12:56] <Randomskk> having said that
[12:56] <Randomskk> this very first test video of nitrous coming out of the nozzle
[12:57] <Randomskk> is very reminiscent
[12:57] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: cool
[12:57] <eroomde> :)
[12:57] <Laurenceb> thats quite an encouraging graph
[12:57] <eroomde> nitrous ice too
[12:57] <tweetBot> @daveake: German TV news item re Babbage - http://t.co/dcxgR81XVz and choose Compact/Kompact from the list below the video. #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
[12:58] <Laurenceb> looks like n-butane is needed
[12:58] <eroomde> Randomskk, not the most enthusiasm here about a relaunch
[12:58] <Randomskk> hm?
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> yep
[12:58] <Randomskk> of m1?
[12:58] <Laurenceb> ~12C at 8Km
[12:58] <eroomde> yep
[12:59] <eroomde> re the emial to iain
[12:59] <Randomskk> I wonder if they'd be better off trying to do something new. well, probably not...
[12:59] <Randomskk> it sounds like it was an awful lot of work to get it rocket-shape again
[12:59] <eroomde> i think iain was aghast that he'd made it to the end of 2nd year without getting out-of-hours access already
[12:59] <LeoBodnar> THis is below what I have seen on qualatex
[12:59] <eroomde> and therefore had no concept of the amount of work required
[12:59] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: how much heating on qualatex?
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> about 7-10 degrees
[13:00] <Laurenceb> ok
[13:00] <Randomskk> eroomde: lol I can imagine
[13:00] <Randomskk> "it's a heck of a lot of work" never stopped things before
[13:01] <Randomskk> just wrecked everyone involved?
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> It just has to survive day pressures that's all
[13:01] <eroomde> yes but most of the people who said it knew what it meant
[13:02] <Randomskk> mm
[13:02] <eroomde> i mean, by the end of second year we all had out of hours access, parking slots, roz and RCFs mobile phone numbers, etc etc
[13:03] <eroomde> on first name terms with most of the night porters and machinists
[13:03] <Randomskk> are we talking about ESA now?
[13:03] <eroomde> no, esa was 3rd/4th year
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> Butane calls for zero-pressure thing I think it can stabilise it enough to be passively stable
[13:04] <eroomde> but the rocket would be a not dissimilar level of work, if for a shorter period
[13:04] <eroomde> but trying to get it done in mich and lent terms, as undergrads, i'm not sure they have a clue what they'd be letting themselves in for
[13:04] <eroomde> given they haven't even found OoH access necessary yet
[13:05] <Randomskk> fair
[13:06] <eroomde> it's not my decision in the slightest, it's quite up to them. i just want to make sure they reaslise what they'd be letting themselves in for
[13:06] <Randomskk> undergrads do now have until-10-pm access by default, 7 days a week, so 24/7 isn't as crucial these days as before, but your point stands
[13:06] <Randomskk> yea
[13:06] <eroomde> we had till 10 too
[13:06] <Randomskk> really? in my first year we didn't by default, had to request 24/7 specially
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[13:06] <Randomskk> wonder if it would be more sensible to try and make something new and fairly simple for big range this year and think about m1 later?
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[13:07] <eroomde> big range is a f-tonne of effort to just take a rocket you could lanch anywhere else
[13:07] <eroomde> it's extremely difficult terrain
[13:07] <eroomde> it's total isolation, no phone or internet
[13:07] <eroomde> it's expensive
[13:07] <Randomskk> I assume it would be a rocket more than you could launch at EARS else obviously pointless going there
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> DomeEX sounds like it has been invented by PinkFloyd.
[13:07] <eroomde> a minimum diameter N could be fun
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> If one were to use progressively larger frequency spacing it would sound really pleasant. Hit 2^1/12 freq scale
[13:08] <eroomde> they'd probably also have to provide a launch tower
[13:08] <eroomde> well i guess they could borrow ours if it's available
[13:08] <eroomde> and rent a landrover etc
[13:08] <eroomde> it's really a lot of work. not the best thing to be doing in the lead up to summer exams
[13:09] <eroomde> i honestly thing a trip to black rock is probably a better use of the money
[13:09] <eroomde> price is not dissimilar when all is said and done
[13:09] <Randomskk> point taken, I'll relay your convictions
[13:09] <eroomde> black rock is flat and the event well organized
[13:09] <eroomde> if they were thinking of black rock, i'd go for it
[13:09] <Randomskk> more spectacle too I imagine ;)
[13:09] <eroomde> i probably wouldn't go back to big range
[13:10] <eroomde> yes
[13:10] <eroomde> we were the only non-trivial launch there our year
[13:10] <eroomde> black rock would have Ns and Os and Ps going off left, right and centre
[13:10] <eroomde> you can just rent an RV when you're out there
[13:11] <eroomde> the salt gets everywhere though apparently
[13:11] <Randomskk> getting the rockets there might be fun. I guess you'd buy the motors
[13:11] <eroomde> conformal coat all your electronics and stuff :)
[13:11] <Randomskk> buy the motors there*
[13:11] <eroomde> yes, get the motors out there fo sho
[13:11] <eroomde> ship the rocket ahead
[13:11] <Randomskk> mm
[13:11] <Randomskk> still comes down to it being a whole ton of work to build the rocket
[13:11] <Randomskk> though actually black rock is in summer or something?
[13:12] <eroomde> yeah
[13:12] <eroomde> there's BALLS and LDRS
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[13:13] <eroomde> we might be doing oen of those two on an O-powered boosted dart
[13:13] <eroomde> to get a sexy dataset for the gps
[13:13] <Randomskk> july 18-22 for LDRS apparently
[13:13] <eroomde> that i would commend as being a much more noble target
[13:13] <Randomskk> can't find dates for BALLS
[13:13] <eroomde> both after exams, you'll have a good months of time you can dedicate
[13:13] <Randomskk> yea
[13:13] <Randomskk> and a more fun trip
[13:13] <eroomde> and there's a lot of logistics in place for international visitors i believe
[13:13] <eroomde> and yeah, it would be fun
[13:14] <Randomskk> oh those dates ^ were this year actually
[13:14] <Randomskk> BALLS is september I think
[13:14] <eroomde> either/or
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[13:14] <eroomde> i'd commend them anyway.
[13:14] <eroomde> and so does james who has done both, over BR
[13:14] <Randomskk> fe
[13:15] <eroomde> BR is very beautiful though
[13:15] <eroomde> very wild terrain
[13:15] <eroomde> but not the best for rockets
[13:15] <Randomskk> yea.
[13:15] <Randomskk> ouch. £80 import fees for my bladerf
[13:15] <Randomskk> be here tomorrow. at long last.
[13:16] <fsphil> ah man, that's a lot
[13:16] <Randomskk> yea it is :|
[13:16] <eroomde> wow
[13:16] <eroomde> yes, ouch
[13:16] <Randomskk> 57 in VAT, 13 in duty, 8 in collection
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[13:17] <Randomskk> and some change to account for the rounding there >_>
[13:18] <Randomskk> eroomde: I was thinking of trying to make a 3GHz radar gun
[13:18] <eroomde> nice!
[13:18] <eroomde> do
[13:18] <Randomskk> send out a carrier at 3GHz, receive, mix it on the FPGA, FFT the downmixed stuff, find the doppler
[13:19] <Randomskk> some back of the envelope maths suggests with 1/4 second sampling I should be able to resolve a couple of hz of doppler
[13:19] <Randomskk> and it's 4Hz per mph
[13:19] <Randomskk> ish
[13:19] <Darkside> why 3GHz
[13:19] <eroomde> ah so doppler rather than pos?
[13:19] <Darkside> you can gt 10GHz gunn diodes
[13:19] <Darkside> gunnplxers*
[13:19] <eroomde> presumably for bladiness
[13:19] <Randomskk> Darkside: because 3GHz is the highest it can tune to
[13:19] <Darkside> oh
[13:19] <Darkside> hackrf?
[13:19] <Darkside> or something similar
[13:19] <Randomskk> eroomde: I would also like to try pulsing to get distance to objects
[13:20] <Randomskk> Darkside: bladerf
[13:20] <Darkside> aha
[13:20] <Randomskk> hackrf being half duplex would not work so well
[13:20] <Darkside> mm
[13:20] <eroomde> you can do both
[13:20] <Randomskk> yea
[13:20] <Darkside> bladerf uses that analog devices chip doesnt it?
[13:20] <Randomskk> will want to try it
[13:20] <Darkside> or is that just the B200
[13:20] <Randomskk> Darkside: no, a lime micro thing
[13:20] <eroomde> you can fm modulate a, say, triangular wave ontop
[13:20] <Darkside> ahh
[13:20] <Darkside> i know it doesnt go low enough to be useful to me :P
[13:20] <eroomde> much lower freq, eg 10MHz
[13:20] <eroomde> and compare the phases of those waves
[13:20] <Darkside> FMCW
[13:20] <Randomskk> hmm yea
[13:20] <Randomskk> I was thinking of trying to time the pulse time of flight
[13:21] <Randomskk> but that's hard
[13:21] <Randomskk> measuring phase of the LF modulated signal would be cool
[13:21] <eroomde> it's noisy
[13:21] <Darkside> eroomde: what you described is how our OTHR works
[13:21] <Darkside> 'our' being my countries one :P
[13:21] <eroomde> OTHR?
[13:21] <Darkside> over the horizon radar
[13:21] <eroomde> oh right
[13:21] <eroomde> cool
[13:21] <LeoBodnar> Randomskk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MViVyocQhVw ?
[13:21] <eroomde> it's also what i was playing with for an altimeter for gyroc
[13:21] <Darkside> i see the pulses from it all the time on HF
[13:22] <Randomskk> eroomde: I was thinking you could send a correlation code modulated and then correlate the return signal to find the phase?
[13:23] <eroomde> yep, i think that would be the more sophisticated way of doing it too
[13:23] <Randomskk> not sure how you'd determine the number of wavelengths. maybe keep changing the code?
[13:23] <eroomde> and work nicely for multiple rdars with multiple receivers
[13:23] <Randomskk> oh that'd be cool
[13:23] <eroomde> because they are all orthogonal
[13:23] <Randomskk> yea
[13:23] <eroomde> that's how you spot stealth planes
[13:23] <Randomskk> should have got some more bladeRFs
[13:23] <Randomskk> they can sync clocks
[13:23] <HixWork> Randomskk when you have that working, fancy building me a 3D laser scanner ;p
[13:23] <Randomskk> make a synthetic aperture tracking radar
[13:24] <eroomde> i have a notion of a jamming-proof gps that works a bit like that
[13:24] <eroomde> for some values of jamming anyway
[13:25] <Laurenceb> octave:443> log(10)
[13:25] <Laurenceb> ans = 2.3026
[13:25] <Laurenceb> octave: keeping it real
[13:25] <eroomde> designed by engineers, for engineers
[13:25] <eroomde> here's something annoying
[13:25] <eroomde> numpy.sqrt(-1)
[13:25] <eroomde> >> nan
[13:25] <eroomde> scipy.sqrt(-1)
[13:25] <eroomde> >> 1j
[13:26] <eroomde> do not like the messy overlap of numpy and scipy
[13:26] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:29] <Laurenceb> lol all the rolf harris jokes just got deleted from sickipedia
[13:30] <Darkside> oh?
[13:30] <Darkside> what jokes :P
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> 'can you tell what it is yet?'
[13:30] <Laurenceb> serious business
[13:31] <Laurenceb> theres a lot of bars...
[13:31] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: that presentation makes radar look easy, i want a bladerf now...
[13:31] <mattbrejza> could just borrow a usrp though
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Some sorts of radar are eays
[13:32] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: Pulse length as timecode? Rising edge as time reference.
[13:32] <eroomde> PCM?
[13:32] <eroomde> PWM even
[13:33] <LeoBodnar> You only need maybe 10 seconds assurance with 1PPS it's 10 different pluse lengths
[13:33] <eroomde> i just don't like timing stuff with speed of light things
[13:33] <eroomde> i like comparing phases
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> Frequency sweep is nice
[13:33] <eroomde> it seems much more robust
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> All the information pops out of the envelope
[13:36] <Laurenceb> im currently working on an optical swept freuqnecy system
[13:36] <Laurenceb> using peltier cooled laser diode
[13:37] <Laurenceb> you can frequency sweep many laser diodes using current ramps
[13:38] <Laurenceb> http://redlum.xohp.pagesperso-orange.fr/laser/modeanalysis.html#HL6385
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[13:39] <Laurenceb> the assembly is also interesting -> http://redlum.xohp.pagesperso-orange.fr/laser/pics/IMG_1148.jpg
[13:40] <Laurenceb> using woods metal
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah - i've been thinking wacky stuff about that.
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> if you pot an enamelled copper wire in woods metal, you get a 6R or so transmission line
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[14:01] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_srdB2JGBI - william tell overture
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[14:07] <eroomde> zen things:
[14:07] <eroomde> 1) ignoring that wasp. there is no wasp
[14:08] <eroomde> 2) very carefully refilling your fountain pen from an ink bottle, lest disaster
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[14:09] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[14:09] <eroomde> 3) rewriting the .doc emailed to you 'for your comment' in latex and sending it back, corrected.
[14:09] <eroomde> 4) smoking on a pipe looking smug, except i have no pipe
[14:12] <eroomde> so gps jammers are slightly more sophisticated than i thought
[14:12] <eroomde> they're not just CW or noise
[14:12] <eroomde> they actually sweep across about 5MHz on bandwidth, centered on the gps carrier freq
[14:12] <eroomde> and they sweep at the chip rate, so every chip gets a blast across its frequency content
[14:13] <eroomde> i wonder if any habbers have yet encountered shitty gps readins
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> You must have seen this http://www.utexas.edu/know/2013/07/30/spoofing-a-superyacht-at-sea/
[14:15] <eroomde> i did
[14:15] <eroomde> that's def more interesting
[14:15] <eroomde> that's how i would go about it (have gone about it...)
[14:15] <eroomde> but just for jamming rather than spoofing, this is clever enough
[14:16] <eroomde> for some widget you put in a cigarette lighter socket
[14:16] <eroomde> it's basically the Tomorrow Never Dies attack
[14:18] <eroomde> it occurs to me that just time spoofing could buy you a few ms as a high frequency trader
[14:18] <eroomde> if you wanted to play really silly buggers
[14:19] <eroomde> i suspect i might have just found a market for my anti-jamming gps receiver
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: Massive wasp has appeared in my office. It's an insulated room inside an insulated workshop. Been practicing mental powers?
[14:22] <eroomde> kill it with fire
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> Solution: synchronised atomic clocks with UPSes shipped by special courier from NPL
[14:22] <eroomde> put some jam on one of your butane balloons
[14:22] <eroomde> then tie a lighter to the end of a stick
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[15:04] <fsphil> I had to do that "there is no wasp" thing while driving home once, and there was one sitting happly on the driver window .. waiting to pounce
[15:06] <HixWork> I have a deal with wasps, I ignore them and they go away. Go in my beer and I'll get pissed off and throw you across the garden
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[15:08] <G4AIU-Eugene> testing log-in
[15:10] <fsphil> A*
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[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> ping Randomskk
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> I was wondering where I could find an EEPROM that would do the same job as a 24AA32A
[15:13] <HixWork> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/eeprom-memory-chips/6879155/ ibanezmatt13
[15:14] <HixWork> although that is actuall one :/ why an alternative though
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> ah sorry, forgot to mention I'm looking for it in Eagle :/
[15:14] <mattbrejza> eeprom pinout is very generic
[15:15] <mattbrejza> search for eeprom and then check the pinout matches
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> I searched for eeprom and it returned no results. I wondered if anybody knew where to look in Eagle for these chips
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, they might have something in the Sparkfun libraries...
[15:16] <fsphil> could just copy an existing IC and rename the pins
[15:16] <mattbrejza> i have the exact part in my library
[15:16] <mattbrejza> is the 'microchip' linrary standard?
[15:17] <HixWork> PDIP/MSOP/SOIC/SOIJ/TSSOP search for one of them
[15:17] <HixWork> damn SOIC N
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, thank
[15:18] <HixWork> sorry
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> thanks*
[15:18] <HixWork> your welcom
[15:18] <HixWork> ;p
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> got it, thanks! :)
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[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> looks like I'll have to give it its own vreg
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> main voltage on the board is 3v3
[15:19] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: you sure you think the eeprom is worth it, or do you just want a board with lots of parts?
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13> I think a board with lots of parts is cool :)
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13> good pcb practice
[15:20] <mattbrejza> tbh find something interesting/useful to add :)
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'm just experimenting. I'm gonna try and make a board with components on the bottom like Upu's Pava boards
[15:21] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 you should have a look in the library at how footprints are made and do some of your own, it'll save redoing a board when you get a crap one from somewhere
[15:21] <HixWork> http://learn.adafruit.com/downloads/pdf/creating-accurate-footprints-in-eagle.pdf
[15:21] <HixWork> is pretty cool info too
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> He has the rfm22 and ublox max 6 on the bottom and I can't figure how to get it on the bottom
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> thanks HixWork
[15:21] <HixWork> there are loads of crap eagle parts out there in the ether
[15:22] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: its generally neater to have everything on one side
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok mattbrejza
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> tell me about it HixWork :)
[15:22] <HixWork> select part and middle button. Voilá
[15:23] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: SD card? lipo charger circuit?
[15:23] <mattbrejza> expansion header?
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> I would have loved an SD card socket
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> not bothering with the LiPo
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> And I'm breaking out some pins for headers yeah
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> I need to work out how to use the SD card socket thing with an AVR
[15:24] <HixWork> SPI
[15:24] <mattbrejza> well electrically its very simple
[15:24] <mattbrejza> remember CS pin pullup though
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I guess I could just emulate one of the micro sd designs out there
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> On the schematic I'm looking at, CS is left floating mattbrejza
[15:25] <mattbrejza> i doubt it
[15:25] <mattbrejza> itll be connected to a pin
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/wombat/tree/master/pcb
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> look at the .pdf
[15:25] <mattbrejza> yea tahts not an AVR
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[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> oh of course
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[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> err
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[15:26] <mattbrejza> its needed on the AVR because spi is shared with the programmer
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes it is, didn't think of that
[15:26] <mattbrejza> and during programming CS will be floating
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> are there any examples out there?
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> schematics
[15:26] <mattbrejza> just wire it up
[15:26] <mattbrejza> MOSI to MOSI
[15:26] <mattbrejza> CLK to CLK
[15:26] <mattbrejza> etc
[15:26] <mattbrejza> however
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> CS?
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> sorry gotta run, tea
[15:27] <mattbrejza> best to put a 1-4K7 on the MISO pin at the SD card as SPI is shared
[15:27] <mattbrejza> CS to a GPIO w/ external pullup
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> right, I'll note that down, back in 15
[15:27] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 http://avrbeginners.net/architecture/spi/spi.html
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[15:33] <HixWork> bit of a random question. If i has python and scipy on a webserver, it would be possible to create web apps that for instance, dynamically plotted graphs based on user input no?
[15:35] <eroomde> yes
[15:35] <HixWork> are tickets still available for the conf? topic states so, thought deadline was past
[15:36] <eroomde> looked at such a thing once to let you plot x vs y on the fly from a list of parameters
[15:36] <HixWork> cheers eroomde
[15:36] <eroomde> whoever asked about tickets, i would talk to upu asap
[15:36] <eroomde> i expect there may be a gap between our deadline and their dealing (no idea tho)
[15:36] <UpuWork> wut
[15:36] <UpuWork> topic ?
[15:37] <UpuWork> meh
[15:37] <HixWork> no panic UpuWork just the topic
[15:37] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[15:37] #highaltitude: mode change '+o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[15:37] Topic changed on #highaltitude by Upu!Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:e593:ed0e:5f46:245f: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, rockets etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[15:38] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[15:38] <fsphil> there's an extra space before rockets too
[15:38] <UpuWork> ta
[15:38] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/30077/1/95-0437.pdf
[15:38] <eroomde> for emphasis
[15:39] #highaltitude: mode change '+o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[15:39] Topic changed on #highaltitude by Upu!Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:e593:ed0e:5f46:245f: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, rockets etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[15:39] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[15:39] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: check out figure 2
[15:39] <fsphil> all is right with the world :)
[15:39] <UpuWork> basically numbers have gone in for catering
[15:39] <fsphil> well some of it
[15:40] <HixWork> catering you say - we are being fed and watered?
[15:40] <LeoBodnar> It's exactly what we have Laurenceb
[15:41] <LeoBodnar> good find
[15:41] <mattbrejza> HixWork: your first conference i see :)
[15:41] <HixWork> indeed
[15:41] <HixWork> well HAB one at least
[15:41] <LeoBodnar> Do they use a mix or separate balloons? [Doing some RL work atm]
[15:42] <mattbrejza> first year we had pizza (from pizza hut or similar)
[15:42] <Laurenceb> separate
[15:42] <Laurenceb> their altitudes are a bit high
[15:42] <mattbrejza> 2nd year was sandwiches and similar from the venue
[15:42] <Laurenceb> i think they included soalr heating of polythene
[15:42] <Laurenceb> about 8Km max for butane
[15:43] <HixWork> hmm, so there is a great Nepalese in Greenwich - does that mean ..... :)
[15:43] <Laurenceb> ah yeah - figure 2 is peak altitude
[15:43] <eroomde> arko: ping
[15:43] <Laurenceb> so they say 8Km peak with butane
[15:44] <Laurenceb> using their model
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[15:44] <LeoBodnar> on the earth?
[15:45] <Laurenceb> "In this projccl, a very small (total syslcm mass <3kg) two-balloon systcm is being tcstc.d. I’hc primary’ balloon is filled with helium and the buoyancy-control balloon is filled with a commercial refrigerant calledRI14,"
[15:45] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:45] <Laurenceb> lol OCR
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> Why R114 better than butane?
[15:46] <Laurenceb> slightly lower altitude and non flammible
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[15:49] <HixWork> ooh R4 intersting atm
[15:49] <HixWork> Gemini Super Intense Laser
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[15:50] <LeoBodnar> Is main one zero-pressure?
[15:51] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:51] <Laurenceb> they talk about "evaporative heat exchanger"
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[15:51] <Laurenceb> being needed to stop it crashing into the ground
[15:51] <eroomde> i'm going to be original and observe how annoying the person talking loudly into their phone on my bus is
[15:51] <Laurenceb> need more info :-/
[15:52] <Laurenceb> but their system was huge
[15:52] <Laurenceb> 3.1Kg total mass
[15:52] <Laurenceb> so itd respond slowly
[15:52] <HixWork> eroomde http://goo.gl/dqN55W
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[15:53] <LeoBodnar> THey required low altitude for photography? Have the lost 1st and 2nd flight? From the alt charts..
[15:54] <Laurenceb> yeah i think so
[15:54] <LeoBodnar> I like the idea of pocketed bags but it increases area/volume ratio massively.
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> Superpressured main balloon saves the system from going to high and destroying itself
[15:55] <Laurenceb> i tihnk they mixed something in with the butane
[15:55] <Laurenceb> that acted as a heat transfer fluid/gas
[15:56] <Laurenceb> prob some CFC stuff
[15:56] <LeoBodnar> Radiosone assembly 472 g, lol
[15:56] <Laurenceb> pity its all banned now
[15:56] <Laurenceb> overall this does look massively easier than superpressure
[15:56] <LeoBodnar> Is R114 on of the "bad ones?"
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, as I said - He latex + butane foil floater
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> Shame butane migrates through latex :(
[16:01] <Laurenceb> oh they have a diagram
[16:01] <Laurenceb> arg so badly drawn
[16:02] <Laurenceb> lol, it called lots of balsa wood
[16:02] <Laurenceb> thats their solution
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[16:03] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[16:04] <Joel_re> did this channel suddenly explode in usercount?
[16:06] <mfa298> Joel_re: no, it's about average, although it may be a bit more active around this time (heading into UK evening time)
[16:06] <Joel_re> ok
[16:08] <LeoBodnar> OK, my understanding is that if temperature falls below boiling point all saturated vapour should condense and n-butane filled bag should fully collapse and contain nothing but liquid butane when in the freezer.
[16:08] <LeoBodnar> It did not happen
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[16:09] <LeoBodnar> THere must be some other stuff there with boiling point lower than -20C
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> I need a cryolab
[16:11] <Laurenceb> what fraction froze?
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> Maybe freeze "butane" canister in the freezer, open the valve and let crap to come out leaving purified liquid stuff?
[16:11] <Laurenceb> volume wise
[16:11] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:11] <Laurenceb> i think the tube goes to the bottom
[16:11] <Laurenceb> you could tap a hole into the top
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> Turn it upside down then
[16:12] <Laurenceb> or that
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13> Does the BMP085 chip only come in one package? Looking to purchase it, the only one I can find is a QFN-8 but in my schematic it doesn't say what package it is
[16:13] <eroomde> if in eagle can you check from the corresponding layout view?
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> not sure eroomde :/
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> I am not puncturing butane canister filled with -20C highly flammable stuff XD
[16:14] <eroomde> i phrased it as a question
[16:14] <eroomde> because i'm like that
[16:14] <eroomde> but what i meant is
[16:14] <eroomde> look at the layout view because that will tell you
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> right, gotcha
[16:15] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: if you wanted a challange for a new board, use a bare sensor. that way you can get one that works to 0 bar
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> might do :)
[16:19] <KF5WYX> Radiometrix U.S. distributor is a bit of an a**hole. I was making enquiries on how to buy the HX-1 from the US (since it can't be done through their website) and was curious if I could have it shipped from the U.K. to avoid the added costs of their US supplier. Radiometrix forwarded my concern and I got this email back: http://pastebin.com/LkGdK7BQ
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[16:21] Nick change: Guest73700 -> nigelvh
[16:21] <ike> KF5WYX I must confess that I'm a troll, but fuck Radiometrix
[16:21] <ike> you are hammer right?
[16:21] <KF5WYX> As a side note: Radiometrix explained to me when I visited them in January, that they're getting a higher volume of 1pc orders on the HX-1 and NTX-2 than they'd expected due to habing activity increasing. They were happy to fill the orders non-the-less and even advised me to contact them for my orders over their U.S. distributor (which I did).
[16:21] <KF5WYX> Yes, recently qualified technician, soley for the purposes of habbing.
[16:22] <wrea> KF5WYX: Good to know, thanks
[16:22] <ike> ask for VHF version of that radio and use it with APRS http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=107191
[16:23] <ike> slap arduino and GPS module ... job done
[16:23] <ike> you will get 4W of power
[16:23] <ike> with that you can go to ISS
[16:24] <KF5WYX> I only posted that here because I plan to email Radiometrix and politely tell them fuck their U.S. supplier. But I want to be delicate about it so as not to make the habbing community look bad - while highlighting their U.S. distribution problems.
[16:24] <nigelvh> KF5WYX, yes, I've had bad experience with the US distributor of Radiometrix as well.
[16:24] <KF5WYX> Thanks ike, I was looking for the alternative.
[16:24] <nigelvh> They VASTLY overcharge and I got a similar email when I complained about the price.
[16:24] <arko> morning
[16:24] <ike> KF5WYX here is you can conntac them http://www.409shop.com/shop_page.php?pagename=contact
[16:24] <nigelvh> If you want them for a much better price, check out Upu's shop http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[16:25] <ike> on ebay they are cheap, but form 409shop you get nice earpice worth $3
[16:26] <KF5WYX> Slightly confused, I'm seeing a hand-held radio?
[16:26] <KF5WYX> The BF-888S ?
[16:26] <ike> right
[16:26] <ike> there is UHF version
[16:26] <KF5WYX> You're suggesting slapping one of those aboard the payload?
[16:27] <ike> you can remove most of it
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[16:27] <ike> it's just 1 board
[16:27] <ike> http://www.kh-gps.de/888_1.jpg
[16:27] <KF5WYX> understood, so hacking that apart is the alternative to the radio modules. I'll order one and have a tinker with it.
[16:27] <ike> you can remove all of connectors and shit
[16:28] <ike> it will be light as 20gr
[16:28] <mfa298> there are various other radio modules people use - although it depends on what you're doing as to what's sensible
[16:28] <ike> order UHF and use it with APRS
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[16:28] <KF5WYX> I'd feed it audio from the serial port of the atmega328 ?
[16:29] <ike> https://www.google.com/search?q=arduino+afsk
[16:29] <ike> there is AFSK
[16:29] <nigelvh> In reality, if you're new to things, check out the Trackuino project.
[16:29] <ike> it's just like FSK
[16:29] <ike> .... but can pass caps
[16:30] <ike> KF5WYX you are a hammer, read more about it
[16:30] <KF5WYX> I've seen the trackuino, it's basically what I'm doing - but I was building my own board using a left over lassenIQ. Hence trying to get the HX1
[16:30] <KF5WYX> will do ike, thanks
[16:30] <nigelvh> If you want a HX1, get it direct, or check out Upu's store
[16:30] <nigelvh> He's got a very good price.
[16:31] <ike> looked the prices ... http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63 this is bullshit
[16:31] <wrea> I'm going to get mine though upu since i'm getting of the ublox 7's
[16:31] <Upu> why bullshit ike ?
[16:31] <KF5WYX> well if I decide to stick with the HX1, I'm going to have someone in the UK buy it for me and mail it, Royal Mail to texas for something so light weight is about 6 quid.
[16:31] <ike> on ebay they are $18.20 with shipping
[16:31] <ike> it's toooooooooooooooo expencive
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[16:32] <nigelvh> That's not a problem with the store, that's a problem with the manufacturer.
[16:32] <Upu> link me a HX1 on ebay for that price
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> What's minimum wage in the US?
[16:32] <nigelvh> Depends on where you are.
[16:32] <ike> NTX2 434.075Mhz Radio Module ?19.79 sux balls comared to $4 with free shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/SI4432-470MHz-1000m-Wireless-Module-470M-433mhz-Wireless-Communication-Module-/200932667345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec8852fd1
[16:33] <Upu> lol
[16:33] <nigelvh> There is federal minimum wage, and then states can implement their own.
[16:33] <Upu> ok is that a NTX2 ike ?
[16:33] <Upu> so are you comparing like for like ?
[16:33] <KF5WYX> I think it's around $4 here in texas, but minimum wage is kinda bullshit in a country where service industry staff can legally be paid less than the minimum based on their expected gratuities.
[16:33] <nigelvh> Ike, those are NOT the same.
[16:34] <Upu> before calling bullshit please understand the differences
[16:34] <nigelvh> KF5WYX, it CANNOT be $4, federal minimum is something like 7.xx
[16:34] <Upu> anyway afk
[16:34] <ike> I told you that is way better than any Radiometrix
[16:34] <nigelvh> Better is relative and subjective. Please define what you're defining as better.
[16:34] <KF5WYX> nigelvh - I don't know the actual amount, I guessed - but my fiance is paid $2.50 or so as a waitress. I feel like the legal minimum has no bearing.
[16:35] <arko> eroomde: yo
[16:35] <ike> nigelvh: Better is relative and subjective. Please define what you're defining as better. - it's better in any way
[16:35] <nigelvh> Waitresses are (unfortunately) an odd case because tips can be factored into your pay.
[16:35] <nigelvh> Ike, that's just stupid.
[16:35] <KF5WYX> The employer is expected to make up a shortfall if the minumum is not achieved, but tips are taxed too - Just feel it's wrong.
[16:35] <nigelvh> Pick a definable measurable aspect, and describe why it's better.
[16:36] <nigelvh> KF5WYX, I agree.
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[16:37] <nigelvh> Ike, and a definable, measurable aspect of why it's "better" may be different for each use case.
[16:38] <nigelvh> Now, the SI4432 is a very useful chip, but the use case here is somewhat different.
[16:38] <ike> so ... you can't use it?
[16:39] <nigelvh> That module doesn't fit the use case of transmitting FM APRS at =>100mW like is common in the US.
[16:39] <nigelvh> Would it potentially work to do FSK RTTY at about 10mW as is common in the UK? Maybe. Try it.
[16:40] <nigelvh> But different modules do different things better than others, and sometimes they have different costs.
[16:40] <mfa298> also a common deciding factor (especially for begginers) is ease of use, and the NTX2 generally wins that criteria
[16:40] <nigelvh> For what it does, the HX1 is a good module, and the prices either direct or from Upu I believe are in line with its capabilities and use case. 300mW FM AFSK.
[16:41] <ike> nigelvh you can't do APRS with SI4432, but you can use it instead of any 433mhz module Radiometrix
[16:42] <nigelvh> Not necessarily. What is the use case.
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[16:42] <nigelvh> The NTX-2 requires no programming. That's a potential benefit or downfall, depending on your use case.
[16:42] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
[16:43] <nigelvh> The SI4432 REQUIRES programming it to run at a given frequency, that can either be a benefit or a hindrance.
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[16:43] <nigelvh> The NTX-2 could also do very low power FM if desired. The 4432 is not designed for that.
[16:44] <nigelvh> Not every radio, or every chip, or every battery, or every anything is going to work everywhere. It's about the use case.
[16:44] <ike> replacement for http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?s[]=ntx2
[16:45] <nigelvh> Not necessarily. That guide is designed for beginners, the NTX-2 is much easier to interface with. See my earlier comments about programming it.
[16:45] <Upu> ike be my guest in making it replicate the behaviour
[16:45] <nigelvh> In theory can the radio perform the same function, probably.
[16:45] <Upu> I think you're missing the point anyway
[16:45] <mfa298> ike: the beauty of the ntx2 in that is that it's *SO* simple to use, And judging by the people that struggle with that guide they wont manage with anything more complex
[16:45] <Upu> anyway go launch that radio
[16:45] <ike> nigelvh 4432 can run from 1dbm to 20dbm and if you use arduino lib ... no programing is necessary
[16:45] <Upu> have fun with it when it stops working @ -20
[16:46] <Upu> the core of that board is fine
[16:46] <Upu> its the stuff round it thats the issue
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[16:46] <Upu> we've had issues with the cheaper chinese boards before
[16:47] <daveake> NTX2 is bulletproof
[16:47] <Upu> the Radiometrix modules are quality items and sheilded
[16:47] <Upu> also the new replacement has a TCXO in it
[16:47] <daveake> Power = signal the end
[16:47] <Upu> and we can only use 10mW anyway
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[16:47] <Upu> so either ways you're welcome to take the advise of people on this channel
[16:47] <Upu> or ignore it entirely
[16:48] <Upu> just don't tell my prices are bullshit pls because they aren't
[16:49] <ike> I don't have problem with stupid people buying overpriced toy
[16:49] Action: daveake smells troll
[16:49] <nigelvh> Then I don't have a problem with stupid people buying chinese garbage from ebay.
[16:49] <wrea> trolls be trolling
[16:49] <ike> I just wana tell to hams that there is other way than Radiometrix
[16:49] <daveake> We know
[16:49] <craag> ike: If the only factor was cost, my time saved would be worth a lot more than the extra cost of the NTX2.
[16:49] <ike> yes I'm troll
[16:49] <daveake> And we know the relative strengths and pitfalls
[16:50] <Upu> we know and we've used them and we go back to the radiometrix products
[16:50] <ike> and btw I'm waiting for my SDR dongle to arive from china to test FSK using $1 433 tx module
[16:50] <LeoBodnar> Considering minimum wage you have just spent more of your life's worth than you going to save buying them elsewhere :)
[16:50] <LeoBodnar> Minimum wage ~ cost of you time
[16:50] <Upu> anyway you've made your point, please document your findings on the Wiki
[16:51] <daveake> If price is your first priority in choosing HAB components, you're headed for a fail
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still saving up to make my NORB boards but I'm sure it'll be worth the wai
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> +t
[16:52] <LeoBodnar> Consider http://ava.upuaut.net/store/ a HAB charity
[16:53] <nigelvh> Upu buys in bulk and makes almost no profit on anything he sells.
[16:53] <ike> I can sell you AWG 22 wire for just $1000 meter, yes I know that cost is not an issue so it's with free shipping
[16:53] <Upu> well in fairness I made some money but not enough to warranty running it as standalone
[16:54] <nigelvh> I said 'almost' so I think that's covered.
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> Right, what do people think of sending 2 or more payloads up and having them interface with each other in some way? I thought the LMT2 could be a way to achieve this and may open up some neat ideas for HAB projects. :)
[16:55] <ike> I don't say don't buy from Upu, I'm just saying Upu but chinise crap and resell it
[16:55] <wrea> ibanezmatt13: on the same balloon?
[16:55] <nigelvh> Ike, that makes no sense, the chinese crap has been found to not work well, why would he sell it to the community.
[16:55] Action: mattbrejza predicts ike 's house burning down from cheap chinese electronics going wrong
[16:55] <chris_99> ike, what are you talking about?
[16:55] <ibanezmatt13> well, I thought different balloon would be more cool :)
[16:56] <daveake> I suspect Upu is well capable of deciding what's worth selling and what would cause him to lose money
[16:56] <wrea> ibanezmatt13: then using that would make sense, people having it on the same balloon have used xbee before
[16:56] <daveake> Bad eough with Chinese GPS-jamming cameras
[16:57] <ibanezmatt13> wrea: So what sort of things could be done with two HABs interfacing with each other using the LMT2?
[16:57] <ibanezmatt13> middair laser quest or something
[16:57] <daveake> Well they could say hello to each other
[16:57] <ibanezmatt13> true
[16:57] <nigelvh> ibanezmatt13, it's definitely something interesting, but you'd want to figure out why you're doing it first.
[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> they could fire pyro stuff at each other? First one to hit the ground looses kinda thing :/
[16:58] <nigelvh> Even if that reason is "can it be done reliably?
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> Two payloads raises the possibility of fairly simple testing of using one as a beacon, and the other as a GPS
[16:58] <ibanezmatt13> that's a good idea SpeedEvil
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> Simply broadcast as normal with a GPS payload on 434.500, and a beacon on 434.502 - and then have them in the same audio passband
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> record both - as audio files - and then recover the position from several recordings
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> - from different locations
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still thinking of some sort of high altitude shoot out or something
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> need at least 2 recievers - more if you want to actually get a position, not merly determine proof of concept
[17:01] <arko> nice daveake, the jump video has over 100k+ views
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:01] <daveake> ha yes
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> Fame!
[17:02] <daveake> It was on Austrian TV last night, on a station owned by Red Bull :p
[17:03] <arko> nice!
[17:03] <arko> i can just imagine felix in boxers eating ice cream watching tv when that comes on
[17:03] <daveake> lol
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[17:04] <Piet0r_> Hi
[17:04] Action: daveake isn't asking why the boxers
[17:04] <arko> it's a typical scene in movies no?
[17:04] <daveake> ah ok
[17:05] <Piet0r_> Quick question: can I use a uBlox NEO-6M for HAB or doesn't it go higher the 18KM?
[17:05] <Upu> it works fine above 18km as long as you put it in flight mode
[17:05] <Piet0r_> How do I put it in flightmode?
[17:05] <Upu> its the same as the examples on the wiki don't have them to hand
[17:06] <arko> daveake: think of the show "Married with Childern"
[17:06] <daveake> oh yeah
[17:07] <arko> reading my comment now i see how that's weird >_>
[17:07] <Piet0r_> I'll look it up
[17:07] <arko> its coffee time
[17:07] <Piet0r_> Thnx :)
[17:09] <daveake> It's in the wiki :)
[17:10] <Piet0r_> Yeah found it
[17:11] <Piet0r_> @Upu Why don't you sell the 6M in the HAB Supplies store?
[17:11] <Piet0r_> It's a lot cheaper
[17:15] <Upu> its end of line
[17:15] <Upu> which is why its cheaper :)
[17:16] <Piet0r_> I see
[17:16] <Upu> there are piles of them on ebay at the moment
[17:16] <Upu> as the new NEO7/MAX7's are now out
[17:16] <Piet0r_> Yeah that's where I got one to play with
[17:16] <Upu> I'm hoping to get the MAX7C down in price a little shortly
[17:16] <Piet0r_> Nice
[17:17] <Upu> also that module doesn't do power saving very well
[17:17] <Upu> not really an issue for most flights
[17:17] <Upu> afk for a bit
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[17:19] <Piet0r_> Bye
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[17:39] <Laurenceb> http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/30075/1/95-0435.pdf
[17:39] <Laurenceb> nice
[17:39] <Laurenceb> full thermodynamic analysis
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[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:44] <WillDuckworth> any ntx 2b transmitters appearing any time soon upu?
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I've been looking into SPI with an SD socket. Because I'm using the AVR ISP programmer you said I needed to add a pullup on the MISO line on the SD side of the ISP. Do I not need to add a pullup for the SCK and MOSI line too?
[17:51] <mattbrejza> pullup on CS
[17:51] <mattbrejza> series resistor on MISO
[17:52] <mattbrejza> to stop two devices damaging each other if they both decide to talk at once
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> nothing on the sck and mosi?
[17:52] <mattbrejza> na
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[17:55] <cm13g09> anyone seen chrisstubbs recently?
[17:55] Action: cm13g09 forgets if there's a bot keeping track of this!
[17:55] <cm13g09> Saturdays predictions are looking rather wet for him
[18:00] <ike> how much did you pay for lost payload as a reward?
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[18:27] <Upu> hey WillDuckworth yes
[18:27] <Upu> soon(TM)
[18:28] <Upu> Discussing with Radiometrix about how we get them
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[18:31] <Bo|2> Q: i2c uses sda and scl to do coms... but a compas chip i use in a design only have scl and sdi...
[18:32] <Bo|2> its an HCM6352
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> read the datasheet
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> - dunno and can't look at it
[18:32] <Bo|2> you assume i dont have?
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[18:34] <Bo|2> my q relly is if SDA goes under other names like SDI or something else
[18:34] <Bo|2> need to pair it up with right pin on a BBB expansion header
[18:36] <fsphil> wikipedia has a list of alternative names for SPI headers
[18:36] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus#Interface
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[18:37] <Bo|2> ah
[18:37] <Bo|2> just want to be sure or i will have to hack my board once it comes back from fabrication
[18:38] <Bo|2> fsphil: upps
[18:38] <Bo|2> not spi... but i2c :-)
[18:39] <fsphil> ah ha
[18:39] <mfa298> data sheets really should give you the answer, if they don't you're probably buying the wrong thing.
[18:39] <Bo|2> ehh... why that?
[18:39] <Bo|2> the chip is an i2c thing
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8z6rsef7prcxkg/Photo%2018-08-2013%2012%2059%2015.jpg
[18:40] <Bo|2> and it has the scl pin
[18:40] <Bo|2> but no SDA
[18:40] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: lol is that where you had to stand?
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> yep, for best chances :_)
[18:41] <mikestir> we heard back from the CAA - no launch at the school
[18:41] <mikestir> too close to LPL
[18:41] <mikestir> looking like last week of september from somewhere near Wrexham might be on though
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> ah, that's not so bad
[18:42] <mikestir> so I need to get my finger out and build their tracker
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[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> Looking at these pins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9w1inock6f38qqt/sd.png Not sure how to connect some of them
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> What should I do with Card detect, Card detect1, DAT1 and DAT2?
[18:57] <craag> Card detect and Card detect 1 I'm guessing are the little switch that gets closed when you put the card in.
[18:57] <craag> So you can use that to signal to the uC that it should use the sd card.
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> So one goes to GND, the other to an input on the AVR?
[18:58] <craag> With a pull-up on the input, that would work.
[18:58] <craag> You should check that's right though! (I haven't wired up sd cards before)
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[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> haha, cool I will do
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[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> Evening Brew_
[18:59] <craag> DAT1, DAT2, not a clue.
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> nor have I, I'll look it up
[19:00] <Brew__> Evening ibanezmatt13
[19:00] <craag> I tried interfacing with an sd card once, before I'd really delved into arduino at all, so I connected it to Vcc (5V). It didn't work.
[19:00] <Brew__> ibanezmatt13 just drawing a little flight path for our project next week
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> flight path? Could you PM me Brew__ ?
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> I've never worked out how to do a PM
[19:02] <craag> /query Brew__
[19:02] <craag> ^^ like that
[19:02] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, cool thanks! :)
[19:02] <mfa298> or /msg Brew__
[19:02] <Brew_> now that's funny!
[19:02] <craag> mfa298: Then you have to put a message in as well?
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> what?!
[19:03] <craag> anyway, evening mfa298 !
[19:03] <mfa298> I've always used /msg as I've generally wanted to send someone a mesasge in a PM
[19:03] <mfa298> evening
[19:03] <Upu> hey mikestir were you asking about launches North West ?
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[19:13] <Brew__> odd still here enjoying being mr popular for a moment
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[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> I require a cup of tea
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> Can't believe I've just considered buying fireworks to shove on a HAB
[19:26] <Piet0r> wut?
[19:26] <Hiena> Why?
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> no idea
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[19:27] <Piet0r> That's kinda weird
[19:27] Action: mfa298 is reminded of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2olLDv2P9AI
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'm thinking of something spectacular, exciting and "different" to do on a HAB
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[19:27] <Piet0r> And maybe not such a good idea :p
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> Yea... perhaps not
[19:27] <Piet0r> Ah
[19:28] <Hiena> How about fixing a rocket payload and kicking another mile or two to the burst altitude?
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> Already been done
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> Well
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> Kind of
[19:28] <Hiena> Or just measuring the speed of sound there with some ultrasonic transducer?
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: just use hydrogen+chlorine as a lift gas, and then launch at night
[19:29] <Piet0r> How about some ultra bright LEDs so you can write morse in the sky :)
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> some good suggestions :)
[19:30] <Hiena> It would settle the old debate about the pressure, temperatude and the speed of sound.
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking having 2 balloon flights and have them shoot each other down with small rocket missiles. Last balloon flying wins
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> Some good coding practice in getting them to aim at each other
[19:31] <Brew__> awesome! that for sure trumps any of those maplins helicopters
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> I think the missile bit is a bit optimistic
[19:31] <fsphil> lasers
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> I said that but my Dad went mental at the idea of bringing down so many 747s
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> #highaltitudelaserquest
[19:32] <fsphil> to be fair there are not many 747s at 20km and up
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, still I would think it'd be illegal
[19:32] <fsphil> almost certainly :)
[19:32] <fsphil> shame we can't control the direction of these things
[19:33] <fsphil> we could do a high altitude docking between two payloads
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> we need to think of something that's just about legal (maybe slightly not but as close as we can) that is super cool, exciting and different to your typical HAB
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> that involves possibly more than one balloon, perhaps interfacing with each other using the LMT2. I dunno, there's gotta be something cool
[19:34] <fsphil> balloon to balloon relay has been talked about
[19:34] <fsphil> but iirc hasn't been done
[19:34] <mfa298> a night flight with a super bright led inside the balloon could be interesting - or at least reading the papers in the morning
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> UFO
[19:34] <fsphil> I'm thinking of doing that on my next floater flight
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> It's been done between payloads on one balloon fsphil but iirc not two separate flights
[19:35] <fsphil> it should be dark by the time the payload reaches england so you guys might actually see it
[19:35] <fsphil> assuming clear skies
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> maybe a self-destructing HAB with H2?
[19:36] <fsphil> not enough oxygen
[19:36] <fsphil> unless you fill it with .. but then you're basically launching a bomb
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> O(l)
[19:36] <mfa298> I think we've used our clear sky quota for the year.
[19:37] <fsphil> wonder how many secret service alerts that sentence triggered
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[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> I think we should modify the Wiki so that people can post there most ridiculous HAB ideas on so then we can all laugh
[19:38] <WillTablet> I went to bournemouth air festival today
[19:38] <fsphil> launching a tedd.. oh wait
[19:38] <WillTablet> 'Twas amazing
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[19:38] <fsphil> nobody has launched a koala
[19:38] <fsphil> they're not really bears
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[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> maybe we should introduce a competition for people to send up the most ridiculous object as a HAB payload
[19:39] <fsphil> nah
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> for instance a toaster with a tracker on the bottom of it and some bread inside
[19:39] <fsphil> better to encourage proper invention
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> I think that's already been won.
[19:39] <WillTablet> Lancasters, Red Arrows, <insert name of plane that I have since forgotten>
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelir_Antonio_de_Carli
[19:41] <mfa298> toaster with bread in is only allowable if you can have to start toasting the bread just before you arrive.
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[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> btw, what's the point in a pyrotechnic cutdown when it's gonna burst anyway? I'm curious
[19:43] <fsphil> not having a huge clump of latex flapping around tangling parachutes is a good one
[19:43] <mfa298> it allows you to release at a certain height
[19:43] <fsphil> also if you're flight is limited to a certain area
[19:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> You choose when it occurs rather then leaving it to fate!
[19:43] <fsphil> your*
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> fair enough :)
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> I might try one for another project
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> But it's not ticking the excitement box. We need more solid rocket boosters on here
[19:44] <Piet0r> can't you just cut the balloon loose at the desired hight?
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Piet0r: yes
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> yes but where's the excitement
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Piet0r: some think explosives ar ethe easy way to do that
[19:45] <Piet0r> I see
[19:45] <craag> They tend to be the most reliable method.
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> excitement should always outweigh safety and practicality
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> while HABbing
[19:46] <fsphil> try ed's challange of landing at a pre-defined spot
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> I'm interested in that but it's so hard
[19:46] <fsphil> tis
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> Surely the glider would have to be made of carbon fibre for it to be any good at anything?
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> and how would it cope with zero atmosphere or near enough
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> stall, spin, snap, fail
[19:47] <fsphil> well it wouldn't until it fell a bit
[19:48] <fsphil> parafoil, if it didn't tangle, would be good
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I like the idea of killing 2 birds with one HAB by gliding two gliders down from 30km win formation using the almighty LMT2
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, that will be my project for the next 5 yeats
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> and years
[19:49] <fsphil> make a payload that uses compressed air to hover above the ground just before landing
[19:49] <fsphil> make a slow landing on feet
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> Like a Lunar Landing
[19:49] <fsphil> yes
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> where is he
[19:49] <daveake> See if you can do what I've done .... a flight that has conspiracy theorists
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[19:50] <fsphil> fly a rover, have it drive out after landing and transmit a picture back to base
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> that's why I suggested the mighty high altitude pyro system to create a huge explosion at 30km
[19:50] <craag> ^^ I'd like to do that
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[19:50] <craag> (rover)
[19:50] <fsphil> yea
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[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> same
[19:50] <fsphil> have a satellite modem in the main payload
[19:50] <fsphil> and a 434mhz two-way link to the rover
[19:51] <fsphil> a bit like pathfinder
[19:51] <daveake> land a boat at sea and have it come back to shore
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> I thought of that daveake
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> though a boat is of no interest to me. I think a super sonic jet appeals more
[19:51] <fsphil> don't hold back
[19:52] <daveake> but do remember to take the film off the camera :p
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> -_-
[19:52] <fsphil> oops :)
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> Of all the things... a lens protector
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> jees and I'm taking further maths
[19:53] <fsphil> your problems will only multiply
[19:53] <daveake> Common mistake according to RPi Foundation
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> exponentially
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> I might make a PCB which controls the ignition of some fireworks for bonfire night
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> in fact... bad idea
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> I need to de-veg from the PC. Night!
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[20:02] <Piet0r> I have a question about the NTX2
[20:02] <Piet0r> Why the NTX2?
[20:03] <Piet0r> Aren't there any other usable (cheaper) radios?
[20:03] <fsphil> they're really easy and reliable
[20:03] <mfa298> NTX2 is easy to use and known to work well
[20:04] <mfa298> other cheaper radios are usually more complex to interface and have been known to fail in the cold
[20:05] <Piet0r> Why not use an über cheap 433 ASK module from eBay?
[20:05] <ike> it's software thing
[20:05] <mfa298> AFSK probably wont have such a good range as FSK on 10mW (all we can use in the UK)
[20:06] <ike> there is software for FSK not for OOK/ASK
[20:06] <fsphil> well there is morse code, but it's not that good for this
[20:06] <Piet0r> You can't do RTTY on ASK
[20:06] <fsphil> or even hellschriber
[20:07] <Upu> those modules also drift badly and generally the crystals aren't rated below -10'C
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.arianespace.tv/ later on
[20:08] <Piet0r> I believe those modules dont't even use a crystal
[20:08] <Piet0r> Just a coil
[20:09] <bertrik> and a SAW filter
[20:09] <bertrik> sorry, resonator
[20:10] <Upu> there is a crystal on that board ike linked earlier
[20:10] <Upu> I spoke to HopeRF about the issues we had with the RFM22B and they freely admitted none of the components were rated to below -20
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[20:15] <Steve_2e0vet> any ideas why DL-FLDIGI looks like this for RTTY http://imgur.com/D31NrMR
[20:15] <Upu> volume needs turning up
[20:15] <mfa298> weak signal or not enough audio
[20:15] <Upu> input volume
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> grab the whole window, the othe controls help decide whats wrong
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[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ariane launch stream live now
[20:21] <Upu> cheers Lunar
[20:21] <daveake> LL I trust you saw my flight mentioned on your TV news earlier :-)
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> oh which channel?
[20:22] <mattbrejza> online video daveake ?
[20:22] <daveake> yes just a sec
[20:23] <daveake> www1.wdr.de/mediathek/video/sendungen/aktuelle_stunde/videoaktuellestunde382.html … and choose Compact/Kompact from the list below the video.
[20:23] <daveake> But that New Zealand one was much better :)
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: what's it launching?
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> (ariena)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> two comsats
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> one from Eutelsat
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> and the other one from ISRO
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> let me check
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea EUTELSAT25B/Es'hail 1
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> and GSAT-7
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the link daveake
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> quick http://www.arianespace.tv/
[20:29] <S_Mark> hello Lunar_Lander
[20:29] <Upu> evening S_Mark did you get it working ?
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> 50 sec
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:29] <S_Mark> Yes thank you upu, was a software thing, had to change baud rates etc
[20:29] <Upu> cool
[20:29] <S_Mark> all working now
[20:29] <Upu> super
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> 10 sec
[20:29] <Upu> bring it to the conference :)
[20:30] <Upu> tracker-geddon
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> launch
[20:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Will it burst ?
[20:31] <S_Mark> ha ok lol
[20:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> actually I think its a floater
[20:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> at least for some bits of it, the minor bits
[20:32] <x-f> first cutdown worked
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[20:35] <Laurenceb_> can anyone help me fix git conflicts?
[20:35] <ike> that was faster than HAB
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> No chasing, not nearly as much fun.
[20:37] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: maybe
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> so how can i view the conflicts?>
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> atm im stuck in mergetool
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> how do i quit mergetool?
[20:38] <Randomskk> ew, idk, depends what your mergetool is
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> ah ive got it
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> conflicts are in the file now
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[20:40] <Randomskk> they appear in the file as soon as you run git merge
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[20:40] <Laurenceb_> i see
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> how can i just overwrite the local copy?
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> there doesnt seem to be anything imporatant here
[20:41] <Randomskk> git checkout --theirs path/to/file
[20:41] <Randomskk> (as opposed to git checkout --ours)
[20:41] <Randomskk> --theirs for the remote file you're merging in, --ours to keep your version
[20:41] <Randomskk> operates on a whole file
[20:42] <Randomskk> then git add path/to/file
[20:42] <Randomskk> to mark the conflicts as resolved
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/mJa2rGJB
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> what is the first letter about?
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[20:46] <Randomskk> status
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[20:46] <Randomskk> can't remember what they mean though lol
[20:46] <Randomskk> my terminal colours them in
[20:46] <Randomskk> and I just remember colours I guess
[20:46] <Randomskk> don't git pull
[20:46] <Randomskk> git fetch then merge
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> error: 'merge' is not possible because you have unmerged files
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[20:47] <Laurenceb_> i could delete the entire directory...
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> but its a lot of data to grab the entire project
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[20:57] <Randomskk> yea uhm
[20:57] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: there are stronger approaches
[20:57] <Randomskk> like git reset --hard
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> ariane powered flight complete
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> maneuvering for satellite seperation
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: http://s4.b3ta.com/host/creative/89718/1366376093/KangaRofl.gif - actually lol.
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> why did i know that was coming
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> eutelsat gone
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[20:59] <Steve_2e0vet> any ft857 or ft817 users about
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[20:59] <Upu> 817
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[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> SYLDA container seperated
[21:00] <Upu> whats the question Steve /
[21:00] <Steve_2e0vet> Upu, just realised if i turn volume up on radio i get a better signal, but never used to do that on digi modes,
[21:00] <Upu> even
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[21:00] <Upu> is your input plugged into the head phone socket or do you have something like a digimaster
[21:00] <Steve_2e0vet> you should be able to turn the volume right down and still get a good signal
[21:00] <Steve_2e0vet> digimaster
[21:01] <Steve_2e0vet> but the serial part isnt plugged in
[21:01] <Upu> well mine has the green knob at about 11 o clock if that is of any use at all
[21:01] <WillTablet> Still need to do my PCB
[21:01] <Steve_2e0vet> i think its a digimaster clone
[21:01] <Upu> ok
[21:02] <Upu> well mine is turned up
[21:02] <Steve_2e0vet> but saying that i also get very "tinny" sound out of the radio speaker when the cat lead is plugged in
[21:02] <Upu> the trick is turn it up until the diamond at the bottom corner of dl-fldigi goes yellow, then turn it back down till it goes green
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah what is the diamond for?
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[21:02] <Upu> input signal level
[21:02] <Steve_2e0vet> my diamond is constantly black
[21:02] <Upu> if its red its too high
[21:03] <Upu> turn it up till it goes green
[21:03] <WillTablet> Upu can you give a general summary of what was wrong with my board so I can figure out what the problems are?
[21:03] <Steve_2e0vet> my missus will kill me if its that loud
[21:03] <Upu> well you can mute it in windows
[21:04] <Steve_2e0vet> its coming out of the radio lol
[21:04] <Upu> turn the volume knob the radio down then
[21:04] <Steve_2e0vet> ok i have it green
[21:04] <Upu> if you have a cat interface
[21:04] <Steve_2e0vet> then i get no decodes
[21:04] <Upu> the volume should be dictated by the volume coming out of the cat
[21:04] <Upu> wierd
[21:04] <Upu> take the audio lead out of the cat interface and stick it in the head phone socket
[21:04] <Upu> job done
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> GSAT-7 seperated, mission success
[21:05] <mfa298> if you're using the data port on the back of the 817 you should have audio regardless of volume control, although I think squelch still affects it (so don't squelch the signal)
[21:06] <mfa298> having the right mode set on the radio might also affect it
[21:07] <Steve_2e0vet> im wondering if it should be DIGI mode
[21:07] <mfa298> I run it in USB
[21:08] <Steve_2e0vet> in USB i can hear the tones
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[21:10] <mfa298> other thing to consider is which data out pin your interface is using, there's one marked 1200bd (which you want) and one marked 9600bd (which you dont)
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[21:15] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, are you talking about the yaesu settings
[21:15] <mfa298> the 1200bd/9600bd are pins in the data port
[21:16] <Steve_2e0vet> i think thats set in the menu and its set to 1200
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[21:20] <daveake> Yeah the Yaesu settings are the same as normal. you don't use digi mode just USB as usual
[21:20] <Steve_2e0vet> mfa298, just looking at the plug and yes there are 1200 and 9600 not sure which one it is configured to, however this lead has worked before
[21:21] <Steve_2e0vet> daveake, digi and usb both work, neither is better than the other.
[21:22] <Steve_2e0vet> can i just make a lead up that goes from the data port to the sound card without any electronics inbetween
[21:22] <Steve_2e0vet> i am not convinced this box is orking correctly
[21:23] <mfa298> I've just got a straight cable with nothing in the middle
[21:24] <mfa298> probably not the recommended way but it works
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[21:24] <Steve_2e0vet> i also had RTTY-L selected and should have had RTTY-U
[21:26] <daveake> Just get a PS/2 cable, chop one end off and put a jack plug on it
[21:26] <Steve_2e0vet> daveake, PS/2 keyboard?
[21:26] <daveake> yes
[21:27] <Steve_2e0vet> daveake, ok thanks
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[21:34] <Steve_2e0vet> once the balloon goes up, will it drift off frequency much
[21:35] <daveake> depends on a) transmitter b) insulation c) other heating
[21:35] <Steve_2e0vet> urm...
[21:36] <daveake> erm?
[21:36] <Iain_G4SGX> Evening chaps. Just a quicky, anyone used a semtech SX1223 transmitter? Thinking of using on my pcb.. Any comments?
[21:37] <Steve_2e0vet> daveake, i was thinking lol
[21:37] <daveake> Decent insulation, especially without any glaring air gaps, generally limits the drifting
[21:37] <daveake> You can tell the payloads with dodgy air gaps - they drift like anything during initial descent
[21:38] <Steve_2e0vet> daveake, worst case senerio NTX2, no real insulation and no heating, whats the normal kind of drift, if there is a normal. its just i am getting varing results at different frequencies
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[21:39] <daveake> no real insulation = it will drift more than dl-fldigi can track
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> lol, still post-launch talks
[21:39] <Steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, yes, but ive got the tracker working, i didnt cheat!!!
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD you mean cheat like the guy in the commentary?
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> or wait
[21:40] Bo|2 (~Bo@87-51-52-114-static.dk.customer.tdc.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> I actually mean the ariane livestream
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> and you meant your own tracker?
[21:40] <Steve_2e0vet> 2 months later, 2 x NTX2, 3 x Ublox and 3 arduinos
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:41] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK
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[21:41] <Bo_DK> anybody bored enough to give my board a 1-5 min look at come with final suggestions before i ship it off to fabrication?
[21:42] <Steve_2e0vet> i went from this http://imgur.com/MBBTB0m
[21:42] <Bo_DK> board is a cape for the BBB
[21:43] <Bo_DK> has gps and compas... plus menu buttons and header for lcd
[21:43] <Steve_2e0vet> to this http://imgur.com/MrXQzug
[21:43] <Bo_DK> in end like some know its supposed to be able to aim yagi at the payload
[21:43] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: Very nice :)
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK: you've thought about stray fields from inductors as to where you put the compass?
[21:44] <craag> Bo_DK: Post a PNG/JPG and I'll take a look.
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[21:44] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, i am 90% happy, whish i could design my own
[21:44] <Bo_DK> SpeedEvil: no inductors
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK: and you've read the datasheet in detail about layout of the compass - including the 'don't run tracks under it'
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK: IIRC there are some on the bbb
[21:45] <craag> Steve_2e0vet: You'll get there! But first, fly this one and see if there's anything you want to change!
[21:45] <Bo_DK> have split the board up in 3
[21:45] <Steve_2e0vet> craag, yeah think i better get my form in
[21:45] <Bo_DK> ohh... did read sheet for compas... no big note about no tracks under it
[21:45] <craag> BBB has smpsu, with several inductors.
[21:46] <craag> any current near compass = bad
[21:46] <Bo_DK> and will not power the BB from its jack....
[21:46] <craag> Bo_DK: Why not?
[21:46] <Bo_DK> but via external supply
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> As is delta-t's across the accel
[21:47] <craag> Bo_DK: Why not power it by the jack?
[21:47] <Bo_DK> it will be powered via the expansion headers... from a supply that is shielded
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> Also print +x +y labels on the board
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[21:47] <craag> Ok, but it has it's own switch-mode PSU onboard.
[21:47] <Bo_DK> craag: i know... but as you mentioned not so well shielded
[21:48] <craag> Bo_DK: You can't get out of using it's onboard PSU..
[21:48] <craag> It supplies *many* differnt voltages to the board.
[21:48] <Bo_DK> craag: not using it
[21:48] <craag> :/ have you tested it?
[21:49] <Bo_DK> ehh no... but know i will not use the onboard anyway
[21:49] <Bo_DK> let me get rid of tracks under compas
[21:49] <mattbrejza> so you itend to supply the 1.8V for the cpu core?
[21:50] <craag> mattbrejza: It also needs 1.5V, 5V and 3.3V.
[21:50] <craag> oh and Vcore and Vmpu
[21:50] <mattbrejza> Bo_DK 's board must have a lot of regs on it then
[21:51] <craag> Not sure what voltages those are.
[21:51] <Bo_DK> i will supply it 5v and 3.3.. and then just take a chance that its good enough
[21:51] <craag> Bo_DK: You can't get out of using the onboard power regulator. It won't work.
[21:51] <craag> Seriously.
[21:52] <craag> Give it 5V and it'll just use the onboard power regulator.
[21:52] <craag> Which I'm not saying is a bad thing.
[21:52] <Bo_DK> board also have ground flood on one side
[21:53] <Bo_DK> but let me edit so no tracks under compas and i will update DB
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, now during the talks I will go to the WDR and watch your flight :)
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> actually did you notice that there is another clip on ballooning?
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> "Warsteiner Montgolfiade abgesagt"
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> so that is, as far as I know, a hot-air balloon festival
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> and looks like they cancelled that
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> was cancelled because of bacteria in the ara
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> area
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> interesting
[22:00] <Bo_DK> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ffhrigdf29zb5om/CdkEst8aoL
[22:00] <Bo_DK> those who do not use eagle can look in hab(x4).pdf
[22:00] <Iain_G4SGX> I take it that's a no, thanks for your help...
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[22:04] <WillTablet> Ah man the red arrows' frequencies are kept secret.
[22:04] <mfa298> not that secret
[22:04] <WillTablet> That would be so cool to bring a handheld along. Apparently it's because some people tried to give them advice
[22:05] <WillTablet> The guy commentating said that some people bring along scanners.
[22:05] <mfa298> I did find some listed last year when they were supposed to be down this way, but then they cancelled both times there were supposed to visit
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[22:06] <WillTablet> He actually played the air to air radio over the loudspeaker.
[22:06] <WillTablet> He never said you couldn't tune into the air to air comms.
[22:06] <ibanezmatt13> Would somebody be able to help me understand what I need to do to get this on a PCB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9w1inock6f38qqt/sd.png ? There are some pins I can't figure out how to connect to an AVR
[22:06] <WillTablet> I don't think, you can never hear them that well.
[22:07] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 you like planes right?
[22:07] <WillTablet> :-)
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> of course :)
[22:07] <mfa298> technically I don't think it's legal to listen to airband/marine band etc. although the chance of anything happening is pretty slim.
[22:07] <WillTablet> I came back from Bournemouth air festival a few hours ago.
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: card detect are just to detect insertion of the card
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: gnd1/2 should be connected together, and are identical
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> SpeedEvil: Is card detect high when a card is in? So would it be an input in my AVR?
[22:08] <WillTablet> mfa298 that's stupid though, because if the communications were that secret, surely they'd encrypt them?
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: just ignore them
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> So they can stay floating, both detect and detect 1 SpeedEvil ?
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: they're probably a switch - read the datasheet if you care about detecting card insertion
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> it's just wires in the socket
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> there is nothing clever in there
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not bothered about it, would it be ok floating?
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> cool, what about dat1 and 2?
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> I guess data in and data out refer to miso and mosi?
[22:09] <mfa298> WillTablet: so because your old analogue cordless phone is unencrpyted FM I'm allowed to listen to it?
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[22:10] <WillTablet> Heh. My dad did that. He listened to phone convos.
[22:10] <WillTablet> Well
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> http://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/SSPO/SP/VenusUpper/Presentations/Hall_Venus%20balloons%20for%20high%20altitude%2024January2013%20final.pdf
[22:10] <mfa298> just because it's unencrypted doesn't mean you're allowed to listen to it.
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> page 9
[22:11] <WillTablet> I should understand that anyone could listen to it, and therefore rely on telegrams or skype or cryptocat.
[22:12] <WillTablet> Why should someone not be allowed to look at the electrons around them?
[22:12] <mfa298> most stuff these days that's supposed to be secret has some level of encryption
[22:12] <Randomskk> for the same reason you can't telescope into someone's window
[22:12] <Randomskk> expectations of privacy
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> AIUI air traffic is not illegal to listen to
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> Cordless phones are specifically illegal
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> ive intercepted landlines using e field meters
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> you can stand under the line and record the audio
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> the voltages are that high
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> There is no expectation of privacy with air controller interactions.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: err - what?
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: you mean not touching the wires?
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> or close to touching - 1cm say
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> standing on the road
[22:14] <WillTablet> mfa298, might bring (buy) a handheld if I go next year.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: that seems basically impossible unless the lines are very unbalanced
[22:14] <mfa298> legally to listen to airband I think you need an airband license, but the likely hood of anything happening is close on 0
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Oh - wait - phone lines are not balanced are they
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> no
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> and they have pretty high voltages
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> So I guess you just need it to not be shielded by other lines
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> chucks out a lot of field
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> I think it is legal to listen but illegal to tell anybody what you have heard
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> very sensitive front end strong bandblock
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> at 50hz
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: just poll the national grid page to get where to tune your notch :)
[22:16] <WillTablet> mfa298 do you mean the likelihood of being prosecuted or the likelihood of hearing anything?
[22:16] <ibanezmatt13> SpeedEvil: There's a DAT1 and DAT2. I can't find much info on those. I only recognise data_in and data_out which I think are the equivalent of MISO and MOSI :/
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> wrt to scanners
[22:17] <mfa298> likelyhood of being proscecute
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> Any brainwaves Laurenceb_ ?
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> on what?
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> or just generally? :P
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> I am back from HAB club meeting - completely branf*d
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> brainf*d rather
[22:17] <WillTablet> Hab club?
[22:17] <WillTablet> Nice
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> HAM
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> you can tell...
[22:17] <WillTablet> Heh
[22:17] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: there are two ways to access sd cards, the old spi (slow) way and the <insert name here> way that uses DAT0/1/2 thats faster
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> mmm bacon
[22:17] <mattbrejza> so use spi and ignore datx
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Using refrigerants instead of butane
[22:18] <WillTablet> I can just picture somebody stood on the the beach with a W-50 anchored in the sand by a polr.
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> i donno
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> been dealing with git merge issues
[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> So on here mattbrejza https://www.dropbox.com/s/9w1inock6f38qqt/sd.png I only need to connect data_in, data_out (I think miso, mosi), sck and power pins? DAT 1, 2, and card detects can float?
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> A lot of refrigerants on eBay turned out to be isobutane
[22:19] <mattbrejza> yep
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> i think i have some R143a
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> OK, no probs, I thought you have read few hundred papers while I was off :)
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> Have you finished your thesis yet?! XD
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> last week its was at 60%
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> today its at 60%
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> one last thing, the CS pin mattbrejza, that's connected via a 4k7 in series to a digital output on the avr? And I need another 4k7 to pull MISO up to VCC? Nothing for MOSI?
[22:21] <mattbrejza> you got those the wrong way round :P
[22:21] <mattbrejza> CS pullup, MISO series resistor
[22:21] <ibanezmatt13> right, just so I understand, why is this?
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> 60% might mean 60.00% and 60.49% which is a massive progress at your speed
[22:21] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 you ever been to an air show?
[22:21] <ibanezmatt13> many Will :)
[22:22] <mattbrejza> well MISO is the wire the sd card outputs on
[22:22] <ibanezmatt13> So it needs a resistor because?
[22:22] <mattbrejza> but it could be shared by other spi devics
[22:22] <mattbrejza> (eg programmer)
[22:22] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, that was it
[22:22] <ibanezmatt13> and MOSI isn't???
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> MISO and MOSI sound like Japanese cartoon characters
[22:22] <mattbrejza> and CS is what enables the interface
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> Tomorrow is big butane purification day
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: yeah - on googling - it seems to be technically an offence. Seems likely that it would only be prosecuted in extreme circumstances though
[22:23] <mattbrejza> so when youre programming you dont want CS left floating as it might enable the interface during and so mess up programming
[22:23] <mattbrejza> MOSI is only driven by the mcu
[22:23] <mattbrejza> so no contention issues
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[22:24] <LeoBodnar> Why JPL used 400g of He and 1000g of Freon? Seems quite a wrong balance
[22:24] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, so 4k7 in series for MISO to avoid conflict with programmer, and 4k7 to pullup CS to VCC to avoid issues during programming. And the rest float. Cool, thanks mattbrejza
[22:25] <mattbrejza> well tbh you could pull up with 10k-47k
[22:25] <mattbrejza> but 4k7 will work fine either way
[22:25] <WillTablet> mfa298 after some googling, I have discovered the red arrows operate on 1.20m normally.
[22:25] <WillTablet> There are no antennas for that :-)
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: He is light
[22:26] <mfa298> 1.2 meters ?
[22:26] <Bo_DK> did anyone have the time to look over my board?
[22:27] <Bo_DK> would like final suggestions
[22:27] <LeoBodnar> Oh, molar qtys give massively different ratio
[22:27] <qyx_> ibanezmatt13: a would pay double attention to voltage levels
[22:28] <qyx_> if you run avr at 5V
[22:28] <ibanezmatt13> My board will operate at 3v3, I'm not sure what the SD runs at
[22:28] <qyx_> 3.3, thats ok
[22:28] <WillTablet> mfa298 1m ( the band)
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> There is no "1m band"
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[22:30] <arko> LeoBodnar: where do you see that?
[22:30] <arko> the JPL thing
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: I have only skimmed the paper, did they use heat exchanger to actively boil Freon or to accelerate thermal equilibrium?
[22:32] <WillTablet> LeoBodnar I'm confused
[22:32] <WillTablet> Wait
[22:32] <ibanezmatt13> is vss = vcc = vdd?
[22:32] <WillTablet> What is a band technically defined as?
[22:33] <ibanezmatt13> or is vss ground?
[22:33] <qyx_> vss is ground
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> It's a common agreement thing, if nobody is calling that freq range XYZ band than it is no an XYZ band.
[22:34] <ibanezmatt13> and vdd is v+ i guess?
[22:34] <qyx_> vdd is 3.3V
[22:35] <qyx_> i would call my 500GHz band an asdf band
[22:35] <ibanezmatt13> would it make sense to have a 0.1uF ceramic as a decoupling capacitor for the SD system or is it fine without one?
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> I think what you refer to is called MILCOM frequencies
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> their "heat exchanger"
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> was actually balsa wood rods
[22:36] <qyx_> ibanezmatt13: minimum 4.7uF & 0.1uF pair
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> nasa jpl heat exchanger: balsa wood in a bag
[22:37] <WillTablet> LeoBodnar if I go to the air festival next year, I might take a small handheld.
[22:37] <ibanezmatt13> for SD? Didn't think it needed anything
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> Good idea WillTablet!
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> arko: it's a Venus balloon paper
[22:37] <Bo_DK> night night and thanks for help so far
[22:37] <WillTablet> It was amazing this year. I can imagine you get a pretty good view if you get a room at the premier inn.
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> nn!
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[22:38] <mfa298> WillTablet: 1m band would be around 300mhz
[22:38] <LeoBodnar> Balsa to increase surface area?
[22:38] <WillTablet> And shorter distance to the aircraft.
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> to stop the bag collasping on itself
[22:39] <WillTablet> mfa298, I rounded.
[22:39] <WillTablet> 1m was the nearest.
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> keeps a large surface area to the airflow
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> Ah, to keep it stretched flat?
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> but im not sure if this is required on something smaller
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> its a scale thing
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> Carbon fibre then.
[22:39] <mfa298> 300 / Mhz = M
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> their balloon was pretty big
[22:40] <mfa298> but unless you have a really accurate wavelength you wont have an accurate frequency
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> Yes, scale thing
[22:40] <qyx_> ibanezmatt13: it would probably work without but this is a good practice
[22:40] <ibanezmatt13> 4.7uF and 0.1uF in 0603?
[22:41] <WillTablet> mfa298 ok, the frequency is 243.450
[22:42] <qyx_> ibanezmatt13: some designs use even higher values together with ferrite bead
[22:43] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, 4.7uF and 0.1uF is plenty for the SD I think
[22:44] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[22:44] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: Does the output from my AVR join CS after the pullup or before? Probably a stupid question but I've no idea
[22:44] <mattbrejza> the pullup, cs and avr pin are the same net
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> 2m amateur band = 150MHz, oops sorry Cambridge
[22:45] <WillTablet> LeoBodnar so how could one pick up 243.450mhz? Could you just use a 2m handheld?
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: Right... Still no idea what I'm doing :/
[22:45] <WillTablet> Forgive my noobity
[22:46] <mattbrejza> didnt you manage a pullup on reset?
[22:46] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[22:46] <ibanezmatt13> same principle I know, it's nearly 12
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[22:48] <LeoBodnar> So how can I calculate partial pressure of butane in He/butane mix under the boiling point temperature? It's not intuitive...
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> Is partial pressure proportional to gases molar ratio?
[22:49] <WillTablet> LeoBodnar or are the advertised operating freqs just what the antenna length is optimized to?
[22:50] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: finished product: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9w1inock6f38qqt/sd.png
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[22:52] <LeoBodnar> If you can pick it up on your scanner then any antenna would work. It won't be very efficient but it would still work. If you are trying Milcom then proper broadband scanner antenna is best
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> choice but if it's just occasional use try whatever you have
[22:53] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: :_)
[22:53] <ibanezmatt13> success?
[22:53] <WillTablet> LeoBodnar does the same go for transceivers?
[22:53] <WillTablet> (When receiving)
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> Of course if you are a Milcom nut then building tuned antenna for this particular band is better
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> YOu can usually TX only on specific bands so very few people need truly broadband antennas
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[22:54] <eroomde> yoyoyo
[22:54] <eroomde> yo
[22:54] <WillTablet> But you can rx pretty much anything a bit outside thre bands?
[22:55] <WillTablet> eroomde didn't you set fire to one of those?
[22:55] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[22:55] <eroomde> never a yoyo, no
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> With bad antenna match and high power output you are going to be heating up something and this something should be able to survive that abuse.
[22:55] <ibanezmatt13> well, I'm vegged. Night all
[22:56] <WillTablet> Right,
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[22:56] <LeoBodnar> So bad antenna will make RX deaf but it can cause actual damage to TX.
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> You probably don't have to worry until you start pushing 100W or so.
[22:57] <WillTablet> Would this be a good first transceiver http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/yaesu_ft-60_dual_band_2m_70cm_handheld-p-399.html ?
[22:57] <eroomde> if the antenna is a dead short that can be pretty lolinator
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> I have no idea I don't have license myself (yet)
[22:57] <eroomde> dead short at rf*
[22:58] <WillTablet> I could make a Quarter Wave for it!!
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[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:59] <LeoBodnar> Looks good but you really need to ask people who are using them regularly - I thought you have joined your local club?
[23:00] <WillTablet> Yep.
[23:00] <WillTablet> I have. Not been able to go to the past few meetings.
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> Well tell them what you want to do on air and they should be able to suggest a radio
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> If you are going to be operation mostly from a desk at your home mobile radio is a bit pointless.
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> *operating
[23:02] <mfa298> WillTablet: if listening to non ham stuff you also need to know what modulation mode it's using (airband is mostly AM)
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[23:03] <LeoBodnar> Maybe they can lend you one for a week or two - you'll very quickly find out what you actually want.
[23:04] <WillTablet> Yeah using a wideband atm. I'm a bit more focused on getting the license for now.
[23:04] <mfa298> WillTablet: the important thing is that wavelength of the signal and related to frequency, and the number that connects them is the speed of light (which is where the 300 in the formula I have above comes from)
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> Good strategy, don't buy a radio just yet, get a licence and if you can borrow one for a few weeks after you got your callsign.
[23:05] <mfa298> a simple antenna for a band is a 1/4 wave ground plane, so you just choose the right lengths for 1/4 wave of the band you're interested in.
[23:05] <eroomde> i have just been to see a cabaret on the south bank called Limbo
[23:05] <eroomde> it was good
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Yow - 1Ghz 12 bit ADC
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> https://estore.ti.com/ADS5400EVM-CVAL-ADS5400-SP-Evaluation-Module-P4306.aspx
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> 1GSPS
[23:06] <mattbrejza> i could put my $25 TI gift card towwards it...
[23:07] <Randomskk> phoar SpeedEvil
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> my mistake - that's the slow one.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/tool/adc12d1800rfrb
[23:08] <joph> :D
[23:08] <mfa298> WillTablet: if you want to listen to stuff, you can get much cheaper hand held scanners, when you're licensed if you want a cheap radio to talk to local people there are much cheaper options
[23:08] <WillTablet> Mhm
[23:10] <arko> eroomde:
[23:10] <arko> yoyoy
[23:10] <eroomde> yo
[23:10] <arko> you pinged?
[23:11] <eroomde> 70% chance i can't come down friday eve
[23:11] <arko> aww
[23:11] <arko> well, we'll roll the dice anyway
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> Scanners are for listening, radios are for conversing, if they are not flagship products they are usually only good at what they are designed for.
[23:11] <arko> this is all getting so close
[23:11] <arko> im handing off my code to my coworkers at the moment
[23:11] <Randomskk> how long are you away in total?
[23:11] <arko> had 3 meetings to set them up and explain
[23:12] <arko> well i leave wed
[23:12] <arko> arrive thurs
[23:12] <arko> LeoBodnar: linky?
[23:12] <Randomskk> arko: but like how many weeks total duration?
[23:13] <arko> in the uk?
[23:13] <arko> 2
[23:13] <Randomskk> oh you're doing europe after right?
[23:13] <arko> er
[23:13] <Randomskk> or like one country >_>
[23:13] <arko> just the uk
[23:13] <LeoBodnar> http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/30077/1/95-0437.pdf captcha in action
[23:13] <Randomskk> oh ok
[23:13] <Randomskk> thought you were going somewhere else after :|
[23:13] <arko> tomorrow is my last day at work, then i have 3 weeks off
[23:13] <arko> Randomskk: i was suppose to go to austria
[23:14] <Randomskk> nice
[23:14] <Randomskk> ah
[23:14] <Randomskk> that was it
[23:14] <arko> but plans fell though
[23:14] <arko> my family there was out of town
[23:14] <arko> timing :P
[23:14] <Randomskk> ah :(
[23:14] <arko> indeed, but thats ok, more time to spend there next year
[23:14] <arko> next year i will do ukhas and uk for like 3 days, then fly over to austria for a few weeks
[23:14] <Randomskk> cool
[23:15] <arko> if my boss doesn't kill me for leaving for as long as im leaving already
[23:15] <Randomskk> :P
[23:15] <Randomskk> 3 weeks
[23:15] <Randomskk> you americans are crazy
[23:15] <arko> dude
[23:15] <arko> thats maxing all my vacation
[23:15] <Randomskk> definitely crazy
[23:16] <arko> i havent had more than 5 days off within the year for over 4 years
[23:16] <Randomskk> :|
[23:16] <arko> this is my first real vacation in a very long time :/
[23:16] <arko> seriously lame of me
[23:16] <Randomskk> I guess to be fair my month in canada was my first vacation since starting uni 4 years ago
[23:16] <arko> :P
[23:16] <arko> work hard, play for like 4 minutes
[23:16] <arko> thats my motto?
[23:17] <arko> i duno
[23:17] <Randomskk> crap motto >_>
[23:17] <arko> seriously
[23:17] <eroomde> it's worth doing
[23:17] <Randomskk> to be fair I had whole weeks of lying in bed in those 4 years
[23:17] <Randomskk> yay undergrad holidays
[23:17] <eroomde> i think how you work after time off makes up for the time away
[23:17] <arko> my problem is that i like working on things
[23:18] <arko> my work isn't so bad (this last project is epic), my personal projects, and school
[23:18] <arko> my fear while in the uk is getting upset because things arent getting done
[23:18] <arko> :/
[23:18] <arko> its bad, im trying to flush that out of my head
[23:18] <Randomskk> you'll be fiiine
[23:18] <Randomskk> btw where are you staying when in cambridge?
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> Take up Zen dude
[23:19] <arko> Randomskk: no clue, i'll be with eroomde
[23:19] <Randomskk> are you overnighting in cambridge?
[23:19] <arko> worst case he stays with his friends there and i sleep in a pile of fresh leaves
[23:19] <Randomskk> cool
[23:19] <arko> i would like to, but it depends
[23:19] <Randomskk> the leaves are pretty good
[23:19] <eroomde> i have no idea atm
[23:19] <eroomde> we'll rock up
[23:19] <arko> me neither
[23:19] <Randomskk> I miiiight have signed my lease by then
[23:19] <arko> we'll wing it eroomde ;)
[23:19] <Randomskk> in which case I might be around and with house
[23:19] <arko> PARTY AT RANDOMSKK
[23:20] <Randomskk> but it won't be a very furnished house
[23:20] <arko> :P
[23:20] <eroomde> are you on john around in the week after the conf Randomskk?
[23:20] <Randomskk> yea
[23:20] <eroomde> ah cool
[23:20] <Randomskk> well not sure about jon actually
[23:20] <Randomskk> he's not coming to conf
[23:20] <Randomskk> due to being on holiday
[23:20] <eroomde> just i can definitely do a day off that week
[23:20] <Randomskk> >_>
[23:20] <Randomskk> but I think he is back by then
[23:20] <eroomde> ]but not sure about, like 3 days
[23:20] <arko> he said he'll join us in cam
[23:20] <Randomskk> oh yea I'm pretty sure he's back by then
[23:20] <arko> on the 12 or 13 or something like that
[23:20] <Randomskk> this is 13/14th kinda time?
[23:20] <Randomskk> the 14th is actually his birthday
[23:21] <arko> lol
[23:21] <arko> well then
[23:21] <eroomde> arko: when is your return flight?
[23:21] <arko> 18th
[23:21] <Randomskk> eroomde: I'll be "working" all the week days but can take a day off no biggie
[23:21] <Randomskk> should do anyway, need to sort out phd
[23:21] <eroomde> yep
[23:21] <eroomde> cool
[23:21] <arko> nice
[23:22] <eroomde> well it'll all be fine
[23:22] <eroomde> can plan it next wk
[23:22] <arko> yarp
[23:22] <Randomskk> yea cool
[23:22] <Randomskk> or at conf
[23:22] <arko> im kinda winging this whole trip
[23:22] <arko> flying with little planning and worries :)
[23:22] <Randomskk> is arko being taken out in london
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> Good night gentlemen, I shall retire for tonight
[23:22] <Randomskk> actually are there any post-conf evening plans beyond pub?
[23:22] <Randomskk> evening LeoBodnar
[23:22] <arko> good night LeoBodnar
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[23:23] <arko> Randomskk: no idea, eroomde and i are getting fancy wine and proper steaks though
[23:23] <Randomskk> you're coming from california to england
[23:23] <Randomskk> to get fancy wine and proper steaks?
[23:23] <eroomde> i don;t know what the post-pub plans are
[23:23] <Randomskk> you might want to check on that plan arko :P
[23:23] <eroomde> greenwich is the hardest bit of london to escape from
[23:23] <arko> oh no
[23:24] <arko> what did i do wrong now?
[23:24] <eroomde> steak will feature
[23:24] <eroomde> you can get awesome steaks in london!
[23:24] <Randomskk> arko: I just mean that the USA has pretty great steaks and california has nice wines
[23:24] <arko> eroomde: good!
[23:24] <Randomskk> it's true, you can
[23:24] <arko> we will buy that bottle
[23:25] <arko> Randomskk: ;) i know
[23:25] <arko> we have great food here
[23:25] <Randomskk> yea you do >_>
[23:25] <Randomskk> I had a great time in canada even
[23:25] <Randomskk> excellent food
[23:26] <arko> i actually had some nice wine and steak last weekend to set my calibration point for the uk
[23:26] <Randomskk> hehe
[23:26] <arko> i look forward to oxford
[23:26] <arko> rockets, beer by the river
[23:26] <arko> :( i want to leave already
[23:26] <Randomskk> :D soon enough
[23:27] <arko> i handed off my code already
[23:27] <arko> SOON
[23:28] <eroomde> lets hope we have a rocket on the rig
[23:28] <eroomde> it's not on yet
[23:28] <eroomde> which would be sad panda
[23:28] <arko> its ok
[23:29] <arko> but if you do
[23:29] <arko> you'll make the trip worth it just for that
[23:29] <arko> just seeing the facility will be cool
[23:29] <eroomde> it's very 60s
[23:29] <arko> PERFECT
[23:29] <eroomde> as Randomskk will attest
[23:29] <arko> s/60s/skunkworks/
[23:29] <Randomskk> it's so great
[23:30] <Randomskk> 60s skunkworks
[23:30] <arko> hell yeah
[23:36] <eroomde> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski#Particle_accelerator_accident
[23:37] <arko> oh yeah
[23:37] <arko> i heard about this
[23:38] <Randomskk> boo. tried to swap my UPS into connecting via a power meter
[23:38] <Randomskk> but one second of it being unplugged was too much
[23:38] <Randomskk> the inverter kicked in but not before my desktop switched off
[23:38] <Randomskk> :(
[23:39] <Randomskk> with two screens, my microserver, and my desktop running at 100% CPU I draw 270W or so
[23:39] <Randomskk> turn off the 100% CPU and it drops to 215W lol
[23:40] <Randomskk> 137W if I turn off both screens and 100W if the microserver goes off too. not bad.
[23:40] <Randomskk> about 1000kg of CO2 in a year, apparently. that's nice.
[23:41] <eroomde> beautiful infact
[23:42] <Randomskk> maybe I should get LED screens
[23:42] <Randomskk> >_>
[23:42] <arko> you're using crt?!
[23:42] <Randomskk> no
[23:42] <Randomskk> CFL backlit LCD
[23:42] <arko> oh
[23:42] <arko> totally misread
[23:42] <Randomskk> I used to have two 22" CRTs
[23:42] <Randomskk> wonderful
[23:43] <Randomskk> now I have two 24" LCDs and that's nice
[23:43] <Randomskk> three 24" LED LCDs would be nicer.
[23:47] <arko> yeah
[23:47] <arko> 3 screens is great
[23:47] <Randomskk> or a 28" and two 24" could be ok
[00:00] --- Fri Aug 30 2013