highaltitude.log.20130827

[00:04] <crash_18974> 10-4 good buddy. :)
[00:07] <ed__> still at work
[00:07] <ed__> left bristol at 8am to come into work
[00:07] <ed__> and here i still am
[00:07] <ed__> whoopdedo
[00:07] <crash_18974> Didn't CD die out in the 80s or 90s? I remember putting an antenna on my roof in the late 70s.
[00:07] <crash_18974> CB ^^
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[00:10] <mfa298> Still some CB in the uk but not much
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[00:13] <arko> ed__: damn dude
[00:14] <ed__> yes
[00:14] <arko> 18 hour days
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[00:14] <ed__> super cool huh
[00:14] <arko> haha
[00:15] <arko> makes me feel bad, im leaving work early because i had a good demo
[00:15] <arko> new list of requirements is something to sleep on anyway
[00:15] <ed__> i will not be doing an 18 hour day tomorrow
[00:15] <ed__> of that you can be sure
[00:15] <arko> hahaha
[00:15] <arko> 18hour sleep schedule tomorrow
[00:16] <ed__> i need to go and drive a bunch of geofence units around to check they work
[00:16] <ed__> then i'm packaging them and going to bed
[00:16] <arko> nice
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[00:16] <arko> well deserved rest
[00:16] <arko> hope you dont get pulled over
[00:17] <WillTablet> ed__ geofencing for aprs?
[00:17] <ed__> nope
[00:17] <WillTablet> Oh OK
[00:18] <arko> im off, good luck ed__
[00:18] <ed__> tanks
[00:18] <ed__> will need
[00:20] <WillTablet> ed__ what for?
[00:20] <ed__> accessories for tethered blimps
[00:32] <KF5WYX> celebratory moment - Max232 adaptor all soldered up, hooked up to breadboard, attached to jerry rigged LassenIQ breakout board... NMEA strings appearing in putty.
[00:33] <KF5WYX> It was almost too easy this time around, though I don't long for difficulties.
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[06:05] <tweetBot> @ruskin147: @daveake: Babbage Bear jumping from 31 metres above Felix Baumgartner's record #UKHAS #RaspberryPi http://t.co/u9fU4pxNok Magnificent!
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[07:13] <LeoBodnar> mornings
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[07:15] <number10> morning
[07:17] <G0TDJ_AFK> Good Morning Guys
[07:17] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
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[07:59] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:59] <SamSilver> morning jcoxon
[08:03] <daveake> morning
[08:03] <jcoxon> daveake, congrats on the flight
[08:03] <jcoxon> hey SamSilver :-)
[08:03] <daveake> cheers, was a lot of fun
[08:03] <daveake> I'm knackered :/
[08:03] <daveake> 2 flights in 1 w/e plus helping another
[08:04] <daveake> jcoxon did you see the little release video?
[08:04] <jcoxon> you are quite prolific
[08:04] <jcoxon> yeah i did, awesome
[08:04] <jcoxon> shame we didn't catch it with ssdv
[08:04] <jcoxon> what happened to Babbages GPS?
[08:04] <daveake> Well, Babbage's SD card came slightly loose I think
[08:05] <daveake> Had to fsck it last night to recoiver
[08:05] <jcoxon> but didn't it do that both times
[08:05] <jcoxon> (as in drop out GPS at 38km
[08:05] <jcoxon> )
[08:05] <daveake> Not sure on the GPS side that should have been OK
[08:05] <daveake> Yes, strange
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[08:05] <daveake> Exact same GPS code as all my other Pi flights, including TED
[08:06] <jcoxon> oooo who fired the cutdown?
[08:06] <jcoxon> ted or pie?
[08:06] <daveake> I thought it might have been cold after that first flight, so this time the GPS was well wrapped up
[08:06] <daveake> TED
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[08:06] <jcoxon> power drop
[08:06] <daveake> @39km
[08:06] <daveake> Sorry
[08:06] <daveake> PIE
[08:07] <daveake> I'llw ake up soon :)
[08:07] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:07] <daveake> Yes PIE cut the line and kept going; TED already lost GPS
[08:07] <jcoxon> oh well not htat idea then
[08:08] <daveake> Oh, wait ... had an idea .... TED switches to video mode before 39km to record the jump, and the camera cable is quite long (longer than the one that passed the EMC tests)
[08:08] <daveake> Sorry, PIE
[08:08] <daveake> OK next time I choose names that aren't the same length :p
[08:09] <daveake> Anyhoo, both record video for the jump. Wonder if that interfered with the receiver
[08:09] <daveake> TED switches the video on at 38km, and his GPS is in his ear a few cm from the GPS which has a chip antenna
[08:09] <daveake> In PIE, it's a Sarantel antenna
[08:09] <daveake> OK this sounds like it
[08:10] <fsphil> indeed
[08:10] <daveake> Babbage's fault for being too small :p
[08:10] <fsphil> worth having a listen on the gps frequencies with the fcd while it's doing video
[08:10] <jcoxon> yeah that makes sense
[08:10] <jcoxon> as it happened twice
[08:10] <daveake> Yes
[08:10] <daveake> Yes indeed
[08:10] <daveake> Guilt as charged
[08:10] <fsphil> can the ribbon cable be shielded?
[08:11] <daveake> I would think so
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[08:19] <Laurenceb_> is there an onboard video from TED?
[08:19] <daveake> Just getting it now
[08:20] <jcoxon> daveake, ooo i'm looking forward to that
[08:20] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, you coming to the conference?
[08:20] <Laurenceb_> nah too busy
[08:20] <daveake> Whether it'll work or not, dunno, but there's a file there
[08:20] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: working on thesis :S
[08:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> I hope it's OK. I'd like to see the jump from TEDs point of view
[08:21] <jcoxon> its only 1 day
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[08:21] <Laurenceb_> heh
[08:22] <jcoxon> well you can watch the video stream
[08:22] <Laurenceb_> you'll have to survive without me :P
[08:22] <Laurenceb_> http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Lisa/S <- looks fun
[08:22] <jcoxon> i'll put on a brave face
[08:22] <zsentinel> oh cool
[08:23] <zsentinel> i cant wait to see the videos daveake
[08:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> James, are you organising the comference's video stream?
[08:23] <jcoxon> G0TDJ_Steve, ummm BATC are coming to do it AMSAT style
[08:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh cool.
[08:24] <jcoxon> so it should actually work
[08:24] <jcoxon> unlike the previous years
[08:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well, I hope they mic up better than the AMSAT conference
[08:24] <daveake> The batc system is great.
[08:24] <fsphil> we have proper internet this time too
[08:25] <jcoxon> fsphil, when are you getting to london?
[08:25] <daveake> Must say, that new mifi thing plus roof aerial worked great yesterday. We had 3G in lots of places I thought it would die
[08:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> It was quite consistient daveake
[08:25] <fsphil> jcoxon: I'm there on Friday morning-ish
[08:25] <jcoxon> you staying in greenwich?
[08:25] <fsphil> yea
[08:25] <jcoxon> cool
[08:25] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: I've insisted that I man the audio mixer this time..
[08:25] <jcoxon> small pilgramage to the observatory?
[08:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice one craag !!
[08:26] <fsphil> ooh definitly. have a quiet moment for all the bugs its caused :)
[08:26] <jcoxon> yes
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[08:27] <jcoxon> we should find 0.0 and then do small memorial service
[08:27] <jcoxon> s
[08:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> I better bring my iPhone charger, I expect I'll be tweeting like a nutter!
[08:27] <mattbrejza> craag: hope you werent intending to clone my repo...
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[08:27] <Steve_2e0vet> ping UpuWork
[08:28] <craag> mattbrejza: I took a look at your commit last night and the page wouldn't stop loading..
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[08:29] <mattbrejza> heh, bad time to commit really
[08:29] <mattbrejza> i cba so git add .
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[08:40] <Will_> Morning all. I am looking to buy an antenna for my first balloon track to link to mu Funcube pro for SDR/dl-digi. this 70cm antenna from maplin http://www.maplin.co.uk/2m-and-70cm-dual-band-mobile-antenna-97903. but they are sold out. Are there any other placed that I could purchase one and a recommended antenna if possible. I have tried RS for advice and they have been useless!
[08:41] <Steve_2e0vet> Will_, is the antenna for the ballon
[08:41] <Will_> Morning all. I am looking to buy an antenna for my first balloon track to link to mu Funcube pro for SDR/dl-digi. this 70cm antenna from maplin http://www.maplin.co.uk/2m-and-70cm-dual-band-mobile-antenna-97903. but they are sold out. Are there any other places that I could purchase one and a recommended antenna if possible. I have tried RS for advice and they have been useless!
[08:41] <Will_> Thanks Steve. No, it is the receiving antenna for the chase car
[08:41] <daveake> Try CPC
[08:42] <daveake> or ebay
[08:42] <daveake> http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/21033-wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna-wsm-270-watson.html
[08:42] <daveake> Blimey, in stock for a change
[08:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Or here Nevada http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/amateur-radio/antennas/mobile-antennas/?page=2
[08:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> SBB-4 works well on my vehicle
[08:44] <Will_> Perfect! Thanks. THese are all affordable too. RS ones were £150 minimum
[08:44] <Will_> Do the connectors tend to be pretty standard across the board?
[08:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> PL259 bases, that scew into the mount
[08:46] <Steve_2e0vet> i use a commercial PMR one, unfortunatly i dont know the make as i get someone to get them for me. I think it was £20-£25 quid and defo superior quality to the "ham" ones
[08:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you have a fixed mount get an extra PL259 plug, and then seal it over so that when you go thru a car wash, take aerial off put sealed plug in place.
[08:49] <Will_> Great. Thanks for the advice, all. Have now found resources for all of these suggestions
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[09:02] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:03] <tweetBot> @davidojames: "@daveake: Babbage Bear jumping from 31 metres above Felix Baumgartner's record #UKHAS #RaspberryPi http://t.co/QuJqDBerqd"
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[09:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: 'Jets of compressed air will also lift land vehicles off the highways, which, among other things, will minimize paving problems. Smooth earth or level lawns will do as well as pavements. Bridges will also be of less importance, since cars will be capable of crossing water on their jets, though local ordinances will discourage the practice. ' http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/23/lifetimes/asi-v-fair.html - Asimov on world fair
[09:05] <SpeedEvil> 2014
[09:05] <Laurenceb_> hahaha
[09:07] <zsentinel> i guess it would be 1 in a million for one of these to get sucked in a jet's engine?
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> Dead on in some bits - way out in others.
[09:07] <Randomskk> sometimes I wonder what that probability looks like
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: rather higher than that
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> zsentinel: consider how much air there is. now, consider how much air is not filled with balloons.
[09:08] <zsentinel> heh true
[09:08] <zsentinel> is there any danger to these balloons?
[09:10] <daveake> yes wouldn't be good for the balloon to go through a jet engine
[09:10] <Joel_re> is there a rough estimate most balloons travel - in ground distance?
[09:10] <zsentinel> but you dont need to notify your equiv of our FAA of the launch right?
[09:10] <daveake> yes we apply for permission
[09:10] <zsentinel> ahh
[09:11] <zsentinel> can that be done the day of? like "can we launch now?" or must it be in advance?
[09:11] <daveake> 28 days in theory, but frequenct flyers have been known to get it done in a couple of days
[09:11] <x-f> Joel_re, between 10 and 150 km, it really depends on the season, area and luck
[09:12] <zsentinel> i wonder if the same requirement is for the usa
[09:12] <Joel_re> x-f: heh thats a wide estimate,well yeah
[09:12] <Joel_re> I need to go more inland I guess, Im 2kms away from sea
[09:13] <daveake> Varies a lot. I've had some land 10 miles away, one 200
[09:13] <daveake> "floaters" go much further
[09:13] <x-f> Joel_re, ask in #habhub to set up a hourly predictor for your location, you'll see the trends
[09:13] <Joel_re> ok
[09:13] <x-f> if you watch long enough
[09:13] <Lunar_LanderU> SpeedEvil: concerning Asimov 2014
[09:14] <Lunar_LanderU> Flying Cars, Hoverboards, self-drying jackets
[09:14] <Lunar_LanderU> proposed for Oct. 2015 by Steven Spielberg and Robert Zemeckis
[09:14] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[09:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> News is getting about, BBCClick tweeted the Online BBC News report on Babbage's jump and Southgate ARC have a short article on their site.
[09:36] <daveake> Southgate are usually quick
[09:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'd love to see a launch on BBCClick (I watch it every week without fail)
[09:39] <Darkside> i bet it'll be on the local WIA news thsi weekend
[09:39] <Darkside> in australia
[09:40] <daveake> Nice reliable Hwoyees ... 41.1km and 41km
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[09:41] <Darkside> lol
[09:41] <Darkside> we need to do more of them here
[09:41] <Darkside> havent done a launch in months
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[09:48] <Steve_2e0vet> ping UpuWork
[09:51] <UpuWork> hi Steve
[09:54] <Steve_2e0vet> Upu, hi is it ok if i pop over and bring this ublox and also get an ntx2 from you
[09:54] <UpuWork> sure I won't have time to fix it today though
[09:55] <Steve_2e0vet> thats ok, as long as i can get an ntx2
[09:55] <UpuWork> and if you could place an order on the shop for the NTX2 first that would really help
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[09:55] <UpuWork> just a bit snowed under today real work and all that :/
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[09:56] <fsphil> mmm snow
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[09:58] <gross> Hi there, can anyone help me with the flight doc approval process, please?
[09:58] <Randomskk> sure
[10:00] <gross> I've generated a payload (ERANU) and flight doc (DOVE) with the aim to launch on Sat 31 Aug. what should I do next?
[10:00] <Randomskk> give me the flight document ID
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[10:00] <Randomskk> actually I've found it, don't worry
[10:01] <fsphil> OVAVU
[10:01] <Randomskk> gross: approved
[10:01] <gross> hehe, UVAVU is the second payload with SSTV transmission... not sure how to add that one though
[10:02] <gross> ok, great, thanks very much Randomskk
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[10:03] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[10:07] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[10:07] <Steve_2e0vet> UpuWork, do you know anywhere local to get veroboard idealy not maplins
[10:08] <mattbrejza> why not maplin? they not be farnell but i dont know of any other electronics shops
[10:08] <mattbrejza> ignoring small local ones
[10:08] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
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[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Could you clear the map? I've got two payloads running and it's kind of irritating :)
[10:10] <UpuWork> no :)
[10:10] <UpuWork> not yet
[10:10] <UpuWork> sorry
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> ah, it's ok. You got those things?
[10:11] <UpuWork> what things ?
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> Yagi + Pava?
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> Oh wait
[10:11] <UpuWork> oh don't think he's been yet
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> He said this afternoon I think on his way back
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah sorry
[10:11] <daveake> er no don't clear yet I need it!
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> oops, lol :)
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> how did it go daveake? Did the bear jump?
[10:13] <UpuWork> Steve_2e0vet if you are coming down let me know what time as I'm all over the place today
[10:13] <daveake> Have you been in a cave the last 24 hours? :p
[10:13] <mattbrejza> just realised i had sn.us open over the weekend in the office
[10:13] <mattbrejza> its a bit of a mess
[10:13] <mattbrejza> has both bear launches on it
[10:13] <Steve_2e0vet> UpuWork, just placing the order now, so probably about an hour
[10:13] <daveake> You can bearly see what's happening?
[10:13] <UpuWork> I might not be in but it will be at reception for you
[10:14] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: did you know you can filter what's shown on spacenear.us (look in the settings)
[10:15] <Steve_2e0vet> ive done it COD, dont want the wife seeing it on my paypal account lol
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: Only one of them is uploading now I think, it's just still got the other one on and I can't get rid of it
[10:15] <UpuWork> lol
[10:15] <UpuWork> ok
[10:16] Babs__ (1fdd51ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.221.81.202) joined #highaltitude.
[10:17] <Babs__> Daveake - will you still talk to the rest of us mortals at the conference after all this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23840596
[10:17] Action: daveake ignores Babs__ :p
[10:18] <mattbrejza> its a shame they havnt updated it with the shot of him jumping
[10:18] <daveake> I'll email him
[10:18] <mattbrejza> :)
[10:22] <Babs__> Cool. I was wondering how daveake was going to get from car to the Greenwich lecture theatre but then I found this http://tinyurl.com/m5lxcvd
[10:22] <Babs__> *Babs stops the ribbing otherwise daveake really will stop talking to him
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[10:24] <UpuWork> Steve_2e0vet thanks its on reception waiting for you
[10:25] <number10> Babs__: davewho?
[10:26] <Babs__> you know number10. famousdave.
[10:27] <number10> h yes... I remember when he used to talk to the likes of us
[10:27] <number10> +a
[10:29] <daveake> lol sorry was on the phone to the BBC :p
[10:30] <number10> :)
[10:30] <mattbrejza> will we see ted jump on the 6pm news?
[10:30] <daveake> nah not them
[10:31] <daveake> bbc click radio. Wanted me to go to London. No ta.
[10:31] <mattbrejza> shame
[10:31] <daveake> so he's coming here
[10:32] <mattbrejza> :P
[10:32] <Babs__> oh yes. the media are in the palm of your hand.
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[10:33] <craag> Have we got security to hold back the crowds at the conference?
[10:33] <daveake> hah
[10:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> daveake: Find out when the broadcast will be please
[10:35] <daveake> sure
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[10:37] <LeoBodnar> I have met Dave in RL. I am off to sell my story to DailyMail
[10:37] <WillTablet> Hi
[10:37] <daveake> Anyone but them
[10:37] <daveake> ;)
[10:37] <Babs__> They'll build you up and then knock you down.
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> STill tired after yesterday daveake ? :)
[10:38] <daveake> just a tad
[10:38] <WillTablet> daveake does felix baumgartner know a teddy bear beat him?
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> 'steddy on?
[10:38] <WillTablet> I'm quite proud I spelt his name right.
[10:39] <WillTablet> Oh I forgot he's ignoring me
[10:41] <WillTablet> Ping UpuWork are you available at all today to help with the pcb?
[10:41] <Bo_DK> Q.... what would an BBB consume approx? with a 3G dongle fitted... ublox... compas chip and 2-4 servos?
[10:41] <craag> WillTablet: Upu is v busy today.
[10:42] <Bo_DK> trying to figure what track width to go for on board
[10:42] <Bo_DK> then i can ship it to china
[10:42] <WillTablet> Bo_DK check the consumptions of each
[10:42] <craag> Bo_DK: BBB ~200mA, 3G dongle ~550mA, ublox ~60mA
[10:42] <craag> Those are the ones I know
[10:42] <Bo_DK> thanks...
[10:42] <WillTablet> Although I doubt you could power that properly over usb
[10:42] <mattbrejza> assume 500mA for each usb device, as the user could plug anything into them
[10:43] <Bo_DK> it was just to get an approx idea
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[10:43] <mattbrejza> then leave 70mA for GPS, and like 20-30 for 'electronics'
[10:43] <mattbrejza> and look up what servos you intend to use
[10:44] <WillTablet> craag I guess I'll book an appointment for tomorrow. :-)
[10:44] <Bo_DK> WillTablet: think they have invented a powered usb hub if its not enough
[10:44] <daveake> Reading the batc chat from yesterday .... WTF was "Babbage"? :)
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> User will plug novelty coffee cup warmers and office rocket launchers too
[10:44] <Bo_DK> out again
[10:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> ISn't that how you spell it daveake ?
[10:45] <daveake> It is was wondering who used that nick
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[10:45] <LeoBodnar> Sounds like exotic dish name
[10:45] <daveake> Ah that was Sat not yesterday
[10:45] <daveake> anyway still wondering
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> daveake: wasn't there a website dedicated to dropping teddies from things for records? I think you have put them out of competition for the next century.
[10:48] <daveake> Ah yes, I can't remember the link tho
[10:48] <daveake> If yo find it let me know!
[10:48] <daveake> "parafauna" is what they call it
[10:49] <fsphil> http://www.bmiss.org.uk/
[10:51] <daveake> Ah well found :)
[10:52] <daveake> I have this feeling they're going to come back with "You put an extra zero on the altitude", or "surely you mean cm?"
[10:52] <Babs__> Unfortunately it is a minimum of 250g bear. Yours was 200g. No record.
[10:52] <daveake> damn
[10:52] <craag> Babs__: Category II (open)
[10:52] <craag> No minimum eight
[10:52] <daveake> eys
[10:52] <craag> *weight
[10:52] <daveake> er "yes"
[10:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> ....Attempt No. 3....
[10:53] <craag> LOL that a teddy bear with computer, batteries, camera and transmitter comes in under the minimum weight..
[10:53] <craag> oh and GPS
[10:54] <Babs__> craag - who would want a record on the open category though? I mean, there isn't even a minimum number of gores on that one.
[10:54] <Babs__> what's a gore anyway?
[10:54] <craag> not clue..
[10:54] <Randomskk> sounds like the record is about the quantity of bears dropped
[10:54] <Randomskk> not the altitude therefrom
[10:54] <craag> But I think he'll win it anyway for altitude :)
[10:54] <craag> oh
[10:54] <Babs__> also, they spell "whose" as "who's"
[10:54] <Babs__> i abhor bad grammar
[10:55] <Randomskk> http://www.bmiss.org.uk/BBPT.pdf
[10:55] <Randomskk> wow
[10:55] <Randomskk> that's... comprehensive
[10:55] <Babs__> daveake - if Norris McWhirter was still alive, he would give it you
[10:55] <Randomskk> if you ever wanted to make your own parachute
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[10:59] <ibanezmatt13> sorry but this is just brilliant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RPClAUGj4S4
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[11:06] <eroomde> so
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[11:06] <eroomde> 8am-5am finishing off customer order
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[11:07] <fsphil> how are you still awake?
[11:07] <eroomde> then 6.30am set out to drive a few hours to their site deep in the new forest to hand deliver by 10am
[11:07] <eroomde> then drive back to work
[11:07] <eroomde> et voila
[11:07] <Randomskk> haha
[11:07] <eroomde> i am now here
[11:07] <Randomskk> hardcore
[11:07] <Randomskk> they got what they paid for huh ;)
[11:07] <LeoBodnar> replace haemoglobin with caffeine
[11:07] <eroomde> i'm gonna head home after lunch though. i'm not feeling at my most productive
[11:07] <fsphil> I've heard New Forest is a nice spot
[11:07] <Babs__> slacker
[11:07] <eroomde> it's beautiful!
[11:08] <eroomde> stunning!
[11:08] <eroomde> driving through amazing forests and grassland with wild horses wondering around
[11:08] <craag> fsphil: It is, I was out there attempting to take pictures of meteors last week
[11:08] <eroomde> was almost fantasy
[11:08] <Babs__> eroomde - who are you and what have you done with Ed Moore?
[11:08] <fsphil> sure you hadn't nodded off at the wheel eroomde?
[11:08] <eroomde> i'm pretty sure i haven't
[11:08] <eroomde> if so then heaven would be pretty crap
[11:08] <fsphil> craag: nice. good dark skies?
[11:08] <eroomde> same old office
[11:09] <eroomde> hmm maybe this is purgatory
[11:09] <eroomde> Babs__, he'll return after a sleep
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> Th
[11:09] <craag> fsphil: Yeah fantastic, got no meteors though.
[11:09] <fsphil> we where clouded out here
[11:09] <fsphil> as predicted
[11:10] <Babs__> Good. All that new age stuff is just not you.
[11:10] <eroomde> i was sleepy
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[11:10] <craag> Nice spot for radio as well, hf noise floor is really low.
[11:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTV5Pcs5Q8U
[11:10] <Babs__> "How do I work out the distance to the horizon from a certain altitude?" "JUST CALCULATE IT"
[11:10] <mattbrejza> fsphil: http://benoxley.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IMG_1395.jpg new forest
[11:10] <eroomde> anyway i like natural landscapes
[11:10] <eroomde> not in a new agey kinda way
[11:11] <Babs__> was my personal favourite. More of that please.
[11:11] <eroomde> just the magnificent isolation kinda way
[11:11] <eroomde> like a sort of caspar david friedrich painting
[11:11] <Babs__> I went climbing yesterday. It was really new agey, they told me over a 5 minute period how they grow their own vegetables in a biodynamic garden.
[11:12] <craag> fsphil: We get some interested visitors to our radio outings too! http://photos.suws.org.uk/index.php?album=outings/new-forest-26th-may-2013&image=img_2276.jpg
[11:12] <Babs__> i listened for 5 mins and then asked for a mars bar.
[11:12] <fsphil> that is nice mattbrejza. it's a bit like the yorkshire dales, but without the mountains
[11:12] <eroomde> Babs__, well that was a basic geometry question
[11:12] <mattbrejza> yea its completely flat
[11:12] <mattbrejza> and has ponies
[11:12] <fsphil> craag: hah, that is brilliant
[11:12] <eroomde> the second anyone actually just draws a diagram of the thing they're trying to calculate it should be obvious
[11:13] <Babs__> I know. I just miss the open lack of patience.
[11:13] <Babs__> ;-)
[11:13] <eroomde> normal service to resume later
[11:13] <Babs__> cool. I will prepare a basic coding question for you to open your spleen on.
[11:14] <fsphil> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html
[11:14] <fsphil> too basic maybe
[11:14] <Babs__> although I have made some progress on the whole stabilisation platform coding thing *taps nose*
[11:14] <Babs__> quaternions, kalman filtering. its all there.
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[11:14] <eroomde> you've got kalman filtering?
[11:15] <Babs__> using the madgewick algorithm actually.
[11:15] <Babs__> (he says as if he knows what he is doing)
[11:15] <eroomde> madgewick the kalmaning
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[11:15] <fsphil> Madgewick sounds like something a witch would use while brewing
[11:15] <Babs__> but it all works. I've even got it communicating wirelessly so I can have one set of stuff in the top half, one in the bottom half.
[11:16] <Babs__> although I might use a slip ring to avoid it all going wrong in a way i currently can't imagine.
[11:17] <tweetBot> @daveake: Babbage's jump covered on The Independent's web site http://t.co/EF0g4djtbC #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
[11:18] <Babs__> exactly eroomde - looking at the paper i take your point that it is one and the same.
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[11:18] <eroomde> what is one and the same sorry?
[11:18] <Babs__> kalman and magdwick
[11:19] <Babs__> the paper being the madgwick academic paper
[11:19] <eroomde> ah right
[11:19] <eroomde> didn't see it i don't think
[11:19] <Babs__> http://www.x-io.co.uk/res/doc/madgwick_internal_report.pdf
[11:19] <Randomskk> it will be the same as the kalman if it's optimal under gaussian system noise but I wonder if it really is
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: I have a few more questions to you as soon as you have finshed writing your paper
[11:20] <Randomskk> the abstract claims it outperforms a kalman algorithm
[11:20] <Babs__> although now i see the arduino due is out and that is a gazillion times faster than the uno (well 4) which makes it even more ideally suited to rapid calcs
[11:20] <Babs__> of the IMU rapid sampling type
[11:20] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> Is it Cortex-M3 based?
[11:21] <Laurenceb> fire ahead LeoBodnar
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> Firstly it took the balloon 40 minutes to start ascending again after drop so I guess time constant estimation was not far off.
[11:22] <Babs__> Randomskk - was it you how was saying how i would have trouble with non-stepping brushless motors?
[11:22] <Babs__> *who not how
[11:22] <Randomskk> don't think so
[11:22] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: nice point
[11:22] <Babs__> whoever it was. they were right.
[11:22] <Laurenceb> i didnt think of that one
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> Secondly descent rate is not a good estimation for temperature difference as it asymptotically approaches a descent speed of an empty envelope that is parachuting down. I think this is in the order of 1.5-2m/s
[11:23] <Randomskk> this madgwick one looks interesting
[11:23] <Randomskk> might read it properly after work
[11:23] <Babs__> I got this all arming through an ESC and rotating back and forth through the arduino. http://quadcopters.co.uk/iflight-gbm3506-130t-brushless-gimbal-motor-763-p.asp . Its quite cool, but my ESC reflashing skills are weak at present.
[11:24] <Babs__> so it doesn't go back and forth quite fast enough or with small enough steps.
[11:24] <Laurenceb> <LeoBodnar>: an empty envelope would surely have zero lift
[11:24] <Laurenceb> so itd fall really fast surely?
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> And thirdly is there a quick way of estimating heat transfer rate from enclosed gas-filled sphere? I think I need to take standard heat transfer equation and integrate it over volume but my integration skillz are a bit rusty now. Assume no convection, just conduction.
[11:25] <Laurenceb> you could assume no convection
[11:25] <Laurenceb> not sure how accurate itd be
[11:25] <Randomskk> but you'd be wrong
[11:25] <Randomskk> but there are ways of estimating convection
[11:26] <Randomskk> especially for spheres
[11:26] <LeoBodnar> Ruptured foil balloons don't plummet, they descent at about 1-2m/s (from memory)
[11:26] <Randomskk> in air
[11:26] <Randomskk> and also I think radiation is going to be important
[11:26] <Randomskk> conduction alone is going to be almost insignificant
[11:26] <Randomskk> compared to radiation and convection
[11:26] <Randomskk> </guess>
[11:26] <Laurenceb> id imagine a ruptured balloon would keep most of the helium
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> They split in the middle so He would mix with air very soon
[11:27] <Laurenceb> so yeah id imagine a 20 minute or so time constant
[11:27] <Laurenceb> theyd fall faster surely
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> Randomskk: any quick formula? Assume stationary gas-filled sphere in stationary air?
[11:28] <LeoBodnar> This is for the onset of the descent, not in the middle of it
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[11:28] <Laurenceb> i notice the onset is semi exponential
[11:29] <Laurenceb> makes the tempoerature hypothesis seem very plausible
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> Wow, He seems to have 6 times the heat conductivity of that of air.
[11:29] <Randomskk> LeoBodnar: you start getting into dimensionless numbers. rayleigh and nusselt will apply?
[11:29] <Randomskk> it's a bit of a mess and this is mostly bringing back nightmares from two years ago
[11:29] <Laurenceb> hehe
[11:29] <Laurenceb> id say approach it from the data
[11:30] <Laurenceb> not from theory
[11:30] <Randomskk> the wikipedia page on natural convection may be a bad starting point
[11:30] <Randomskk> yes absolutely
[11:30] <Randomskk> but you need a model to fit to the data
[11:30] <Laurenceb> i think we have enough data to work it out
[11:30] <LeoBodnar> Just need a guesstimate.
[11:30] <Laurenceb> theory gets noo nonideal with out weird balloon shape
[11:30] <Laurenceb> 200J over ~200seconds :P
[11:31] <Laurenceb> there
[11:31] <Randomskk> lol
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> It's not really a design critical as I cannot pack more energy enyway but would be nice to estimate what avreage cycle length would be. If >= 1 then it can survive the night easily.
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> Yes call it "the 200/200 rule"
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> :)
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> *anyway
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> *>=1h Oh, just ignore my spelling :)
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> Consider time dimensionless entity XD
[11:35] <Laurenceb> hopefully you just need to give it a kick
[11:35] <Laurenceb> then it should start ascending by itself and hopefully stabilise
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> Oh, and the typical balloon ascent must also be unstable process in reverese
[11:48] <Laurenceb> no
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> Same thing but in the opposite direction.
[11:48] <Laurenceb> ascent is stable
[11:49] <Laurenceb> it gets cooler the higher you go
[11:49] <Laurenceb> so its like a hot air balloon
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> It's a developed ascent temperature is lagging
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[11:49] <LeoBodnar> Yes, but technically it is possible to launch a balloon with zero lift. Just wait for it to wander in a cold pocket of air on the ground
[11:50] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> Even in the night with no IR radiation
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Riveting stuff
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[11:53] <Willdude123> i just got autokicked from a BF3 server because players from the UK are not allowed
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[11:58] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: actually maybe methanol would help
[11:58] <Laurenceb> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/MeOHlogVaporpressure.png
[11:59] <Laurenceb> vapour pressure drops by an order of magnitude between 17C and -20C
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[12:00] <Laurenceb> i think this would have to be modelled.. it gets complex
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[12:01] <LeoBodnar> Is methanol vapour lighter than air?
[12:01] <Laurenceb> no, heavier, slightly
[12:01] <Laurenceb> but liquid methanol gives you net negative lift
[12:02] <LeoBodnar> Is this not in reverse then?
[12:02] <Laurenceb> no
[12:02] <Laurenceb> it displaces air when it boils
[12:02] <Laurenceb> so its going from displacing no air and being a heavy liquid
[12:02] <Laurenceb> to a 10% heavier than air vapour cloud
[12:02] <Laurenceb> displacing some air
[12:02] <HixWork> eroomde how did your GPS http://i.imgur.com/Da4FK3v.png end up with the positional filtering you were working on?
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> What's the boiling point at different pressure levels?
[12:03] <Laurenceb> from that graph
[12:03] <Laurenceb> but you need to think in terms of partial pressures
[12:03] <Laurenceb> unfortunatly solar heating complicates it
[12:04] <Laurenceb> unless you have a separat polythene mini balloon
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> Is it a phase diagram? Are below the chart is liquid? It will probably get too much overpressure?
[12:05] <Laurenceb> im not sure what happens if you put methanol in with the He
[12:05] <LeoBodnar> *area
[12:05] <Laurenceb> i guess if it increases the pressure that kills the lift
[12:05] <Laurenceb> so confusing
[12:06] <Laurenceb> i guess if you have 10kPa methanol partial pressure in He
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[12:06] <Laurenceb> and fill it with that mixture at 20C
[12:06] <Laurenceb> with 1.8gram free lift...
[12:07] <Laurenceb> it ascends during sunlight
[12:07] <Laurenceb> to say 400mmHg atmospheric, envelope at 10C
[12:07] <Laurenceb> and the methanol will all stay as gas
[12:08] <Laurenceb> but if it starts getting too cold...
[12:08] <LeoBodnar> Does methanol migrate through latex?
[12:08] <Laurenceb> say at night, again 400mmHg ambient, it loses superpressurization and its falling
[12:08] <Laurenceb> im thinking qualatex here
[12:09] <LeoBodnar> I'm thinking small latex baloon filled with methanol only
[12:09] <Laurenceb> if its now at -20C the methanol condenses, making it fall faster
[12:09] <Laurenceb> but when it gets lower its closer to 20C, methanol reboils
[12:09] <Laurenceb> and it recovers at a lower altitude?
[12:10] <Laurenceb> this might work better with transparent polythene so theres less solar heating
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> Then zer-pressured main ballon with methanol-filled anchor one sure is better idea?
[12:10] <Laurenceb> maybe
[12:10] <Laurenceb> then its have to have air in too
[12:10] <Laurenceb> or the methanol will never evaporate
[12:10] <Laurenceb> boiling point is 70C at 1bar
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> Oh? Even when boiling?
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> Ah
[12:11] <Laurenceb> you use low partial pressures of methanol
[12:11] <Laurenceb> but it will still evaporate and condense out
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> I see.
[12:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> SO it should be pretty much saturated vapour at launch?
[12:12] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:12] <Laurenceb> 7000 -30.45 9.785 4.111
[12:12] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[12:12] <Laurenceb> arg
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[12:13] <LeoBodnar> Surely hot air ballon industry must have the same problem do deal with?
[12:13] <Laurenceb> 1000 8.50 9.804 8.988
[12:13] <Laurenceb> they keep it nice and hot
[12:14] <eroomde> HixWork, it's good to 2-3m singl freq
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> Maybe somebody tried to control altitude to keep air inside barely warm and had "the experience"
[12:14] <eroomde> the dual freq one is just vapourware at the mo
[12:14] <eroomde> but the algorithms for it should be good to a couple of centremeters
[12:14] <eroomde> no separate basestation required
[12:14] <HixWork> sweet.
[12:15] <HixWork> is this something you are going into at the conf?
[12:15] <eroomde> and of course 1000 positions/sec :)
[12:15] <eroomde> not the dual freq version
[12:15] <eroomde> but you would understand it after the talk
[12:15] <eroomde> the talk basically assumes nothing but familiarity with multiplying two numbers
[12:15] <HixWork> so I won't spoil your talk by asking one here
[12:15] <HixWork> *on
[12:15] <eroomde> and goes through all the dsp, up to getting the bitstream out from the sattelites
[12:16] <HixWork> so when you say dual frequency, is that using GLONASS or something similar in addition to the US system?
[12:17] <eroomde> infact the recent sattelites transmit on multiple frequencies
[12:17] <eroomde> so each GPS sattelite has several frequencies on different carriers
[12:17] <eroomde> the ones i'm using are L1 and L2C
[12:17] <LeoBodnar> NUclear devices monitoring, etc?
[12:17] <eroomde> you need the 2 freqs to be from the same sat to make this work
[12:17] <Laurenceb> but its encrypted
[12:17] <eroomde> but different freqs
[12:17] <Laurenceb> so huh??
[12:18] <eroomde> that way you know they have both come the exact same difference
[12:18] <LeoBodnar> Aren't you just using phase of the signal?
[12:18] <eroomde> and you can infer the electrical vs actual path length from the relative phases
[12:18] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:18] <Laurenceb> you are using phase only
[12:18] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:18] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, you can use phase with just L1 but you don't know which wavelength you're in
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> Are the different frequncies phase coherent on the same sat?
[12:19] <eroomde> yes
[12:19] <HixWork> so to use the L2, does this mean you have access to the encryption
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> Good start!
[12:19] <eroomde> yes
[12:19] <eroomde> that's the key
[12:19] <HixWork> heh
[12:19] <eroomde> that they are generated from the same 10.23MHz clock
[12:19] <eroomde> HixWork, no
[12:19] <eroomde> L2C
[12:20] <HixWork> ahh
[12:20] <eroomde> c = civillian
[12:20] <eroomde> not all sats have it yet
[12:20] <eroomde> but lots do
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> Aren't you asleep yet?
[12:20] <Willdude123> Hi eroomde
[12:20] <mattbrejza> hes sleep-irc-ing
[12:20] <Laurenceb> ok i just did some quick maths
[12:21] <Laurenceb> methanol seems to work
[12:21] <Laurenceb> in a zero pressure
[12:21] <HixWork> ahh so L2 Coarse by the looks of it
[12:21] <mattbrejza> gps is programmed into his supconsious
[12:21] <eroomde> i am about to go to sleep
[12:21] <HixWork> oh, sorry, civilian in scrollback
[12:21] <LeoBodnar> No air just 100% methanol?
[12:21] <Laurenceb> wut
[12:21] <Laurenceb> you use saturated methanol for launch
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> too easy to be true
[12:22] <Laurenceb> then it condenses higher us
[12:22] <Laurenceb> *up
[12:22] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:22] <Laurenceb> and kills the lift, giving float
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> When does the patent office close on Tue? Lol
[12:22] <Laurenceb> the tropospheric temperature drops faster than the methanol vapour pressure
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> i HATE patents
[12:22] <Laurenceb> ratio of gradients is about 6
[12:23] <eroomde> there should be a machine that punches people who say 'einstein was just a patent clerk'
[12:23] <Willdude123> eroomde, why? it's 1:23
[12:23] <eroomde> as if he was some kind of scientific outsider
[12:23] <eroomde> i would patent such a machine
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> I assume this calls for zero-pressure envelope?
[12:23] <Laurenceb> i am one of those people eroomde
[12:24] <Willdude123> eroomde, are you in the US or something
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> Floating at constant erm temperature level?
[12:24] <eroomde> Willdude123, not slept yet
[12:24] <Laurenceb> i think the fact he was an outsider helped him bring some useful insights
[12:24] <Laurenceb> in b4 eroomrage
[12:24] <Laurenceb> anyways
[12:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html
[12:25] <Laurenceb> say 1Km to 7Km
[12:25] <Laurenceb> pressure ~ halves, temperature falls 8.5 to -30.5
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[12:26] <Laurenceb> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/MeOHlogVaporpressure.png
[12:26] <LeoBodnar> This might work. latex enclosure for methanol?
[12:26] <Laurenceb> oops i scared him to sleep
[12:26] <Laurenceb> then check methanol
[12:27] <Laurenceb> at 8.5C its 50mmHg, at -30.5C itll be about 3.5mmHg
[12:27] <Laurenceb> so 15 times reduction in vapour pressure
[12:27] <Laurenceb> 15/2 ~ 7
[12:28] <Laurenceb> 85% of the methanol condenses at 7Km
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[12:30] <tweetBot> @daveake: Babbage recovered after his 39km jump #raspberrypi #UKHAS http://t.co/vnxX5ZJSfB
[12:30] <Laurenceb> the only problem is solar heating of the envelope
[12:30] <Laurenceb> stopping it from condensing
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[12:32] <Laurenceb> there is another way - separate condenser
[12:32] <Laurenceb> some kind of shielded area to reach equilbrium with the air and collect fluid
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> I was thinking separate small latex envelope full of methanol inside a protective metallised mylar shield.
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> Mylar film is extremely light if you don't demand much structural strength from it
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[12:35] <Laurenceb> i wonder what the volume required it
[12:36] <Laurenceb> i guess about 30L
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> It needs say 5 grams lift variance swing
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> So it is zero-pressured as well?
[12:37] <Laurenceb> yeah about 30L
[12:37] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:37] <Laurenceb> zero pressure bag
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> Mylar pocket then.
[12:37] <Laurenceb> or you could try putting it in the the helium
[12:37] <Laurenceb> how much solar heating did you see?
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> The su
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> Sun
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> About 7-10C
[12:38] <Laurenceb> oh not too bad
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[12:39] <LeoBodnar> Can probably make a coolie hat over the main envelope out of super-thin alu mylar film
[12:40] <Laurenceb> i think you can just put some methanol in the main balloon
[12:40] <Laurenceb> inside the qualatex
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[12:40] <LeoBodnar> Yes, sounds like a plan. But it should be gaseous on the ground?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> about 7 grams of it
[12:40] <Laurenceb> no
[12:41] <Laurenceb> just pour in the liquid
[12:41] <HixWork> This pdf was cited in eds
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> Ah, high pressure, yes
[12:41] <HixWork> link http://goo.gl/i0EWJC pretty handy
[12:41] <Laurenceb> maybe add some cottom wool or something into the bottom to help it evaporate
[12:41] <Laurenceb> itll all evaporate into the He on the ground
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> To increase surface are?
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> area?
[12:41] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:42] <Laurenceb> but when it recondenses it should form fine dew on the sides
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[12:42] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> OK, where do average people buy methanol from?
[12:42] <Laurenceb> allowing quick heat transfer
[12:42] <Laurenceb> actually better idea
[12:42] <Laurenceb> pour it in and warm the balloon to 30C or so
[12:43] <Laurenceb> itll all evaporate
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> Will it react with aluminised interior?
[12:43] <Laurenceb> dunno
[12:43] <Laurenceb> the glue might not like it
[12:43] <Laurenceb> you could try with meths
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> It's reasonably passive I think
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> It's hot sealed
[12:43] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:44] <Laurenceb> http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sial/322415?lang=en&region=GB
[12:46] <Laurenceb> i want to try this with a polythene zero pressure
[12:48] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: Final call for #ukhas 2013 Conference tickets if you want to come tickets are only on sale until Wednesday evening! http://t.co/zV7cjfXeST
[12:50] <LeoBodnar> I have some mylar sheets to try it with
[12:50] <LeoBodnar> Maybe qualatex first
[12:53] <Laurenceb> try with meths
[12:53] <Laurenceb> its just methanol ethanol with dye
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[12:57] <UpuWork> ping G0TDJ_Steve
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> I have already ordered methanol from SA
[12:58] <Laurenceb> cool
[12:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Anthony
[12:59] <LeoBodnar> Is ethanol any different? IPA?
[12:59] <Laurenceb> meth head
[12:59] <HixWork> LeoBodnar RC plane and heli engines use methanol, could be an easy supply. As do speedway bikes.
[12:59] <fsphil> Breaking Hab
[12:59] <LeoBodnar> I remember that from my teen years
[12:59] <Laurenceb> ipa is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol
[12:59] <HixWork> Brandon outside of Coventry is the nearest track I know of to you, if the RC route isnt a goer
[13:00] <Laurenceb> ipa has high molar mass
[13:00] <Laurenceb> not very helpful
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> Don't put your hands into it or you go blind! lol
[13:00] <Laurenceb> ethanol doesnt have nice vapour pressure curve..
[13:01] <Laurenceb> if it boils into a heavy gas it doesnt help much :P
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> OK, let's see if SA ship the order
[13:01] <Babs__> isn't there an easier way just to buy it from an RC plane shop?
[13:01] <Laurenceb> i usually order from SA to my work address
[13:01] <Laurenceb> particularly when ordering dodgy chemicals XD
[13:02] <Babs__> i know a bunch of RC planes run on brushless motors now, but they used to sell bottles of the stuff to my dad when we flew planes together
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> How's the theses going?
[13:02] <LeoBodnar> lol
[13:02] <Laurenceb> about 60%...
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> Need to do some work work
[13:04] <Laurenceb> heh me too
[13:05] <Babs__> here you go Leobodnar http://www.amazon.co.uk/Litre-Methanol-99-9%25-recycled-delivered/dp/B00CMFBC62/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1377608696&sr=8-2&keywords=methanol
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[13:09] <iain_g4sgx> So LeoBodnar, what's da plan? Read back but still don't get it. You boiling off ballast?
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> Use methanol to regain stability and avoid thermal runaway dives or whatever the proper name for them is
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> Cheers Babs__
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[13:15] <iain_g4sgx> Ah. Cos the envelope and contents are hotter than the surroundings? That makes them dive? Interesting. Well over my head, good luck...
[13:15] <LeoBodnar> I wonder how many of these oscillations can be attributed to thermal runaway theory http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/1.png
[13:15] <LeoBodnar> Colder iain_g4sgx and has no time to warm up during the descent
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: On Pava, did you use one continuous ground pour for all components? I thought the Ublox needed its own ground pour
[13:16] <LeoBodnar> That's the hypothesis anyway iain_g4sgx
[13:16] <iain_g4sgx> Ah. Makes more sense from a natural point of view. Hot gasses rise and all that.
[13:20] <iain_g4sgx> That NASA PDF you posted yesterday was interesting.. Exploration of planets with balloons.
[13:20] <iain_g4sgx> At least I imagine that's what they were leading to
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[13:28] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: unless you have a switch mode reg or something simular near the ublox you can just do a solid pour
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> what about a step up
[13:28] <mattbrejza> a step up is a switch mode
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> There's one of those on Pava
[13:29] <mattbrejza> yea but is it next to?
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> Nah it's on the other side, but it's not a big board
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[13:30] <mattbrejza> if you actually look in ublox datasheets its a continuous one
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[13:31] <mattbrejza> the groundplane has to be solid under hte ublox anyway
[13:31] <LeoBodnar> don't bother with GND plane islands
[13:31] <LeoBodnar> You have to really understand how the current flows to use them
[13:31] <mattbrejza> http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5450
[13:32] <mattbrejza> that is the best resoruce on the issue ive seen
[13:32] <LeoBodnar> Cutting GND plane without deep understanding is a bad idea
[13:32] <HixWork> nice find mattbrejza
[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> thanks mattbrejza
[13:33] <mattbrejza> http://www.hottconsultants.com/pdf_files/june2001pcd_mixedsignal.pdf too
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[13:34] <LeoBodnar> http://www.learnemc.com/tutorials/guidelines/Worst_Guidelines.html
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[13:35] <mattbrejza> i think ive seen this
[13:36] <mattbrejza> i would be interested to see (if i had lots of spare ublox modules) to see how much you could abuse the guidelines before the tracker stops working
[13:37] <Laurenceb> interesting pdf
[13:38] <LeoBodnar> Having a DCDC converter that powers UBLOX on a SEPARATE ground island is a BAD idea.
[13:38] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:39] <LeoBodnar> Mixed signal designs usually have separate local power sources of their own and don't share one across separations.
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[14:11] <tweetBot> @daveake: Babbage's adventuires covered on the Raspberry Pi web site - http://t.co/i8fNKctkho #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
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[14:22] <mattbrejza> heh
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[14:34] <tweetBot> @G0TDJ: Looking forward to the #ukhas 2013 Conference 7th Sept. Tickets are only on sale until Wednesday evening! http://t.co/em0yNkjxC4 #HAB #hamr
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[14:58] <SamSilver> some more info on h2 http://tinyurl.com/k3avntk
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[15:10] Action: jcoxon likes the ability to search for code on github
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: linear tech, and analog devices also have some really good appnotes
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> and technical overviews
[15:11] <mattbrejza> my favourite appnote is by linear as it happens
[15:11] <mattbrejza> mainly due to the sarcastic appendix which takes up the majority of the article
[15:14] <Laurenceb> arg i need to do some work
[15:14] <Laurenceb> tempted to write some sim code of methanol filled zero pressure
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> must resist writing hab related simulations too
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> need to finish steering wheel display jobbie
[15:15] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:15] <mattbrejza> if youre gonna waste time doing that Laurenceb you might as well come to the conf
[15:15] <mattbrejza> then you can talk methanol for an entire day
[15:15] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:16] <Laurenceb> i wonder if there is a souce of large transparent polythene bags for zero pressure
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[15:17] <mattbrejza> has someone tried filling a bin liner with He and using that for a pico?
[15:17] <mattbrejza> would be interesting to seal
[15:17] <Laurenceb> i did it with hydrogen ages ago
[15:17] <mattbrejza> and the black color wont help
[15:17] <Laurenceb> just zero pressure
[15:17] <Laurenceb> and homemade hydrogen
[15:17] <mattbrejza> oh right
[15:17] Action: SpeedEvil looks at the 1.5*500m roll of poly tiube in the corner.
[15:18] <LeoBodnar> Homemade H2 hmmm. I stil have a scar
[15:18] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:18] <Laurenceb> Al + NaOH
[15:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.polybags.co.uk/shop/clear-polybag_p63.htm
[15:20] <Laurenceb> 30micron polythene, looks good
[15:21] <LeoBodnar> I think I had Zn + H2SO4
[15:21] <Laurenceb> cool
[15:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.polybags.co.uk/shop/images/clear-polybag_p63p.jpg
[15:21] <LeoBodnar> Are they airtight?
[15:21] <Laurenceb> heh thats a meter ruler
[15:22] <Laurenceb> dunno - if its new it should be
[15:22] <Laurenceb> and unabused
[15:22] <Laurenceb> def big enough
[15:24] <LeoBodnar> lovely
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[15:25] <Laurenceb> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4135383&cid=44685459
[15:26] <LeoBodnar> if it is zero-pressure the complete air-tightmness is not that much critical
[15:27] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:27] <Laurenceb> im still ot convinced this works
[15:27] <Laurenceb> seems too easy
[15:27] <Laurenceb> i guess in cold weather it could hit the ground
[15:27] <Laurenceb> i guess the R114 balloon worked
[15:27] <Laurenceb> and this is very similar
[15:28] <LeoBodnar> Whose R114?
[15:28] <LeoBodnar> Will methanol soften the plastics?
[15:28] <Laurenceb> http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/33268/1/94-1206.pdf
[15:28] <Laurenceb> not sure
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WI5B7jLWZUc#t=72
[15:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/peh-chemical-resistance-d_329.html
[15:29] <Laurenceb> thats a no
[15:30] <LeoBodnar> check
[15:30] <LeoBodnar> Fighting for peace is like...
[15:31] <xrg> loving for war?
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[15:40] <Laurenceb> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/MeOHlogVaporpressure.png
[15:41] <Laurenceb> i guess if you wanted to fly at ground level 10C, thats about 7kPa partial pressure
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[15:45] <Laurenceb> giving about a 9% total effective mass change at 7Km
[15:46] <Laurenceb> so it could tolerate 20C solar heating
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Wrap the whole bag in very light alu mylar film
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Or at least the top 1/2 of it
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[15:51] <Laurenceb> im not sure how much light polythene adsorbs
[15:51] <Laurenceb> mylar doesnt reflect 100%
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[15:54] <zsentinel> anyone from the usa?
[15:54] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
[15:54] <zsentinel> i am wondering what the regulations are in the usa for doing a launch
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[15:55] <HixWork> <20Kg :D
[15:55] <fsphil> there are a few USians about, but often more in the evening (US time)
[15:55] <daveake> ^^ pico
[16:00] <HixWork> zsentinel - await the arrival of arko. He'll be pleased to meet a USHABer, I'm sure
[16:00] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: 30µm LDPE looks like 0.3% absorption of sunlight
[16:00] <zsentinel> thanks will do
[16:00] <zsentinel> i am more a wannabe USHABer :)
[16:00] <zsentinel> am new to it
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[16:01] <wrea> zsentinel: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=ed574fce0b7ea0f58896cca481d5bb5a&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr101_main_02.tpl
[16:01] <Willdude123> Ping anyone.
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[16:05] <zsentinel> thanks wrea
[16:05] <zsentinel> it seems we only need to notify fcc the time of the flight, no prior permission required, but there are a metric ton of rules
[16:05] <LeoBodnar> Is this better than reflective? How about IR?
[16:05] <LeoBodnar> You mean the whole Sun spectrum?
[16:06] <LeoBodnar> I have a spectrometer but it does not do deep IR
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[16:10] <eroomde> and awake
[16:10] <eroomde> feels like breakfast time
[16:10] <Randomskk> haha
[16:12] <LeoBodnar> hashbrowns and eggs
[16:12] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: tetroon? http://www.polybags.co.uk/shop/wide-layflat-tubing-18-48-wide_c1016.htm
[16:13] <eroomde> pub dinner
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> What is this "gauge" thing? I need g/m^2
[16:14] <Laurenceb> google can magically convert it for you
[16:14] <Laurenceb> into sanelander units
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> so many guages.
[16:15] <Laurenceb> yeah so mylar is what like 98.5% reflective?
[16:15] <Randomskk> gauge pressure is just referenced to ambient
[16:15] <Randomskk> doesn't define units, only reference point
[16:15] <Laurenceb> meaning polythene doesnt get as hot
[16:15] <tweetBot> @daveake: The walk of success http://t.co/Qn1neF5wY9 #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
[16:15] <Laurenceb> only... polythene doesnt emit in the infrared...
[16:15] <Laurenceb> so confusing
[16:16] <Laurenceb> i dunno lol
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> polythene is used for ir windows for poor people that can't afford silicon or germanium.
[16:16] <arko> mornin
[16:17] <Laurenceb> i want to try this now :P
[16:17] <Laurenceb> methanol picohab
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> Yes, big plastic bag
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> Tubing = 1 less seam
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> 120 gauge = 30 µm
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> Oh, wait you've already said that
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[16:22] <arko> zsentinel: yo
[16:22] Nick change: KipK_away -> Kipkool
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[16:24] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: I am getting 28 g/m^2 for 120 µm sheet
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> DejaVu, I have already done this about a month ago
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> Deemed it to be too heavy
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> Heavier than qualatex stuff
[16:25] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:25] <Laurenceb> i thought it was 1gram/ml
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> But qualatex baloons don't scale up over 36"
[16:26] <Laurenceb> in which case thickness in microns = grams/m^2
[16:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Dave Being interviewed on BBC Oxford (Radio) http://bbc.in/L6m2du Right now
[16:26] <LeoBodnar> Yes, 30µm * 0.92*10^6 g/m3 = 28 g/m2
[16:27] <arko> aww
[16:28] <arko> thats epic!!
[16:28] <arko> go daveake!
[16:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@m recording it
[16:28] <arko> nice
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[16:29] <arko> lol hotair balloon
[16:29] <arko> haha
[16:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
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[16:32] <daveake> Silly bugger said "space" despite me correcting him
[16:32] <arko> haha
[16:32] <xrg> :D
[16:32] <arko> the ending of "pointless"
[16:32] <daveake> I was about to correct him one last time then I got cut off
[16:32] <arko> hahahaha
[16:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> :D
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[16:34] <daveake> Oh and he made the mistake of asking the name of my YT channel
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[16:35] <zsentinel> hi arko
[16:35] <arko> YT?
[16:35] <arko> hi zsentinel
[16:36] <arko> you're in the US of Awesome?
[16:36] <zsentinel> yep
[16:36] <zsentinel> NJ
[16:36] <bertrik> youtube, your's truly
[16:36] <arko> nice, im in CA
[16:36] <arko> ohhh
[16:36] <arko> thats what he asked for, i heard you say "daveake"
[16:36] <daveake> Arko YouTube. It's "choccydonuts"
[16:36] <zsentinel> i am looking to do a launch, it looks like we have a lot or rules
[16:36] <arko> i was like "he asked for his irc handle?"
[16:37] <arko> zsentinel: stay below 4lbs and you just have to follow the basic part 101
[16:37] <daveake> I should have just sent him to my blog
[16:37] <arko> issue a notam to be nice
[16:37] <arko> no fcc notification required
[16:37] <zsentinel> ahhh
[16:37] <zsentinel> awesome!
[16:37] <arko> yeah
[16:38] <arko> i have an email from the fcc telling me this
[16:38] <zsentinel> but i assume not in certain class of airspace?
[16:38] <arko> well dont launch near an airport
[16:38] <zsentinel> we need a ham license to use the air tracking system right?
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[16:38] <arko> check the predicted path too
[16:38] <arko> make sure it's not landing in any busy places
[16:38] <zsentinel> i was thinking of flying to the beat farms in NY state to launch
[16:38] <arko> like freeways or big cities
[16:39] <zsentinel> i mean driving to the beat farms
[16:39] <zsentinel> there is no good places to launch around here
[16:39] <arko> for APRS? yes you need a ham license
[16:39] <zsentinel> its either all buildings and highways, or all trees
[16:39] <arko> heh
[16:39] <arko> try launching in los angeles
[16:39] <zsentinel> arko: yeah APRS that is what i meant, i plan on going for a ham license next week
[16:39] <arko> it's either heavy city or mountains
[16:39] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve, are you going to upload your recoding?
[16:39] <arko> we go out to the desert
[16:39] <zsentinel> arko: where do you launch?
[16:39] <zsentinel> ahhh
[16:39] <zsentinel> at least you have that
[16:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yes Mate, doing now
[16:39] <arko> mohave or twentynine palms
[16:40] <zsentinel> arko: my best bet is probably the beat fields of PA
[16:40] <zsentinel> or NY
[16:40] <zsentinel> beet?
[16:40] <arko> yeah
[16:40] <zsentinel> yeah i think its beet heh
[16:40] <zsentinel> except i dunno how the farmers would feel about me going on their fields to recover
[16:40] <arko> its important to have a clear launch area but what matters more is the area which you predict it lands in
[16:40] <zsentinel> how acurate can the predictions be?
[16:41] <arko> i've been told 10-20km
[16:41] <zsentinel> i was planning on doing a PI w/ a pi camera, a gps module and a radio transmitter that can do APRS
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[16:41] <arko> mine last one landed 500m away
[16:41] <zsentinel> and then getting a directional antenna to attach to my HT
[16:42] <zsentinel> wow 500m? must have been a really calm day
[16:42] <arko> BUT, the predictor is at the mercy of the data you put in
[16:42] <zsentinel> i have a wind meter
[16:42] <daveake> and reality when you fill
[16:42] <arko> so get an accurate asc/desc rate
[16:42] <daveake> wind meter useless
[16:42] <arko> neck lift
[16:42] <zsentinel> really?
[16:42] <zsentinel> i assume you guys use helium?
[16:43] <daveake> ground winds only tell you how hard the launch is going to be
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[16:43] <Upu> hydrogen
[16:43] <arko> hydrogen if you can
[16:43] <zsentinel> daveake: yours looked pretty crazy windy
[16:43] <zsentinel> hydrogen? not sure how easy it is to get that
[16:43] <Upu> that wasn't a good launch :)
[16:43] <zsentinel> i guess not too hard
[16:43] <arko> you have a "Airgas" around you?
[16:43] <zsentinel> yeah
[16:44] <arko> they sell hydrogen
[16:44] <zsentinel> can you get a small container?
[16:44] <zsentinel> i have a huge co2 container, i wonder if i could use that
[16:44] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[16:44] <arko> they can rent you a tank
[16:44] <daveake> zsentinel, If it's like that, give up
[16:44] <arko> if you dont do habs often enough, it's cheaper to rent
[16:45] <daveake> Usually there'll be a lull if you wait a few minutes, but that time not
[16:45] <zsentinel> arko: well if my co2 tank works i could use that
[16:45] <arko> ....
[16:46] <zsentinel> its like one used for soda dispensers in restaurants
[16:46] <zsentinel> its pretty heavy duty tank
[16:46] <zsentinel> i was thinking of getting one of those party baloon helium kits
[16:46] <zsentinel> they dont work as well i assume
[16:47] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th8BCFLO9AM
[16:47] <zsentinel> helium requires a warning placard on your car?
[16:47] <zsentinel> err hydrogen i mean
[16:47] <zsentinel> yeah my co2 tank looks a lot like that tank, i even have a regulator too
[16:48] <wrea> arko: haha
[16:48] <arko> right, but you need a regulator for hydrogen
[16:48] <zsentinel> you mean like it must be specifically made for hydrogen?
[16:48] <arko> wrea: found that in fsphil's feed, i laughed way to hard at that
[16:49] <arko> zsentinel: correct
[16:49] <zsentinel> damn
[16:49] <chrisstubbs> For the sake of $20 or whatever it will be to hire their kit for a month, its probably worth not getting blown up
[16:50] <zsentinel> $20 that is it?
[16:50] <zsentinel> i was expecting a lot more
[16:50] <chrisstubbs> I have no idea
[16:50] <chrisstubbs> its the gas you pay for, the rental isnt much here
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> (UK)
[16:51] <zsentinel> i will make some phone calls
[16:51] <zsentinel> but what about helium for a first launch?
[16:51] <arko> zsentinel: sometimes party supply stores have great deals on helium/tank too
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> it was about £40 + £7 a month iirc
[16:51] <zsentinel> arko: that was my idea
[16:51] <zsentinel> they have those throw away tanks in the box
[16:51] <arko> yeah, calling helps
[16:52] <zsentinel> like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Balloon-Time-Helium-Tank-Fills-50-Balloons/14101103
[16:52] <arko> just make sure it contains enought helium
[16:52] <arko> determined by your balloon
[16:53] <zsentinel> some people say that has an air mix though
[16:53] <zsentinel> so that might not be ideal
[16:53] <arko> which is determined by your hab mass
[16:53] <zsentinel> its kind of pricey
[16:53] <zsentinel> hydrogen is probably a lot cheaper
[16:53] <arko> well pure helium will make you go broke
[16:53] <arko> yeah
[16:53] <arko> hydrogen is ideal
[16:53] <zsentinel> hell i can make my own hydrogen lol
[16:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey guys, Dave's interview on BBC Oxford: http://www.g0tdj.com/audio/Dave_Akerman_interview_on_BBC_Oxford_27-08-2013.mp3
[16:54] <arko> G0TDJ_Steve: nice!
[16:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> ;-)
[16:54] <daveake> Now go and sort out the BBC Berks one from earlier :p
[16:54] <zsentinel> daveake: i am majorly jelly on your setup
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[16:54] <zsentinel> i counted at least 5 monitors
[16:55] <daveake> ah
[16:55] <daveake> 6
[16:55] <zsentinel> i only have 3 :P
[16:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> What time was it Dave?
[16:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Did you watch the Pt 2 video by Dan Bowen from last eyars conf. ?
[16:55] <daveake> only use 4 really
[16:55] <zsentinel> i like your antenna in your backyard too
[16:55] <daveake> Erm, 4:37 or so I think
[16:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK I'll take a look
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[16:57] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: I could not find his presentation on the link you have sent yestearday. Do you have direct link?
[16:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUGkq3Q2JQhN_ChjcPPwAW3A&v=cxkZViG4yoc&feature=player_detailpage the bit you want to listen too is between 21:00-25:00
[16:58] <Willdude123> BF3|Will
[16:58] Nick change: Willdude123 -> BF3|Will
[16:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> daveake: Who interviewed you on BBC Berkshire?
[16:59] <LeoBodnar> NO, haven't seen this. I am going home now and watch it all
[16:59] <daveake> Paul someone, standing in for someone
[16:59] <BF3|Will> daveake, I saw your ted thing made BBC red button
[16:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Standing in for Anne Diamond?
[16:59] <zsentinel> arko: well i plan on starting small
[16:59] <arko> good
[16:59] <daveake> Phil Kennedy
[16:59] <zsentinel> not going crazy high
[16:59] <arko> go as light as possible
[16:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cool
[17:00] <BF3|Will> daveake, you're famous.
[17:00] <BF3|Will> oh yeah he's ignoring me.
[17:00] <daveake> Yeah this is the rest of my 15 mins of fame
[17:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> He's on 'till 7:00 so I'll have to wait until it's done I think
[17:00] <daveake> ah ok
[17:00] <zsentinel> arko: yeah i am going to just do a really light box (maybe foam like dave's) with just a pi, battery, gps module, and radio module, and pi camera
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[17:00] <arko> cool
[17:01] <zsentinel> i guess a pi rev a makes most sense
[17:01] <daveake> Yeah no need for a B
[17:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, checked. I'll have to catch it later
[17:01] <daveake> and silly to fly if there's no need
[17:01] <zsentinel> will need to get a large sd card though to hold the video
[17:01] <zsentinel> but 16gb class10 is like $10.99
[17:01] <arko> brb coffee
[17:01] <daveake> If you record video all the time
[17:01] <daveake> No need really
[17:02] <zsentinel> what do you mean?
[17:02] <zsentinel> no need for a large card?
[17:02] <daveake> Record the launch, then wait till 20km and record some more
[17:02] <zsentinel> ahh
[17:02] <zsentinel> via remote commands?
[17:02] <LeoBodnar> http://www.arhab.org/ have update the record table for the lightest payloads to include B-10 at 10.7 grams :)
[17:02] <zsentinel> or pre-programmed?
[17:03] <daveake> Up to you what you do, but HAB videos are pretty repetetive no need to have 3 hours of footage!
[17:03] <zsentinel> true
[17:03] <zsentinel> what kind of equipment is needed for remote control?
[17:03] <zsentinel> your little radio module handles all that?
[17:04] <zsentinel> i guess in usa, the aprs can be used for remote control?
[17:04] <daveake> I've not done remote control - the payload is programmed to do what I want
[17:05] <KT5TK_QRL> Hey are there any plans to make a launch at the UKHAS conference (or short before/after?)
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[17:05] <zsentinel> daveake: ahh but it steams back the video in real time correct?
[17:06] <KT5TK_QRL> I have built a Pecan that does 434MHz rtty and I'd like to get it in the air. Maybe a Pico launch right there at the conference?
[17:06] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, unfortunately the conference is in central london
[17:06] <jcoxon> however
[17:06] <jcoxon> we could do an early morning launch
[17:07] <jcoxon> before the conference
[17:07] <jcoxon> get it floating
[17:07] <jcoxon> from somewhere outside london
[17:07] <KT5TK_QRL> Are there restrictions in London for a Pico?
[17:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> jcoxon: It would give Anthony something to demonstrate his listening station on
[17:08] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, not officially but
[17:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Close to LCY
[17:08] <mfa298> or just leave a payload running in the back of someones car :p what could possibly go wrong...
[17:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good call mfa298
[17:08] <Randomskk> they can't unlock the car
[17:08] <Randomskk> typically
[17:08] <Randomskk> :P
[17:08] <KT5TK_QRL> I see, so where would be a good place?
[17:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Useful too if the car got stolen LOL :D
[17:09] <mfa298> or for anyone turning up late to the conference, they can't lock their car.
[17:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well, in the confrence reception or something
[17:10] <jcoxon> i'm keen to fly something before hand
[17:10] <KT5TK_QRL> So, are there any takers?
[17:10] <jcoxon> but would just need to get away from london to launch it
[17:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Where are you jcoxon ?
[17:10] <jcoxon> i'm in london
[17:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> North or South?
[17:11] <jcoxon> south east
[17:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hang on
[17:11] <BF3|Will> Is all the press Ted's been getting factually accurate?
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[17:12] <KT5TK_QRL> I'd pay for the helium and the foil balloon, but I have no idea where to get one...
[17:12] Action: LazyLeopard suspects, like most media reporting, that the reporters have probably muddled up facts and fantasy along the way....
[17:13] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, i've got that
[17:13] <KT5TK_QRL> cool
[17:14] <jcoxon> how many balloons?
[17:14] <jcoxon> is it a single?
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[17:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Ha, one 95cm one should be enough.
[17:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Payload weight is around 20g
[17:15] <BF3|Will> http://www.g0tdj.com/audio/Dave_Akerman_interview_on_BBC_Oxford_27-08-2013.mp3
[17:15] <BF3|Will> Hot air balloon
[17:15] Action: BF3|Will giggles
[17:15] <KT5TK_QRL> I only keep using 3 because we have 80cm balloons here in the US
[17:15] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, great
[17:15] <BF3|Will> The ham radio club said Hot Air Balloon radio beaconas
[17:16] <jcoxon> KT5TK_QRL, G0TDJ_Steve, got to dash but certainly could launch before the conference
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[17:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cool. I@ll look forward to hearing from you
[17:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> KT5TK_QRL: Do I understand correctly, you're coming over from the US for the conference?
[17:18] <KT5TK_QRL> Yes, Il'll be in the UK the week before the conference
[17:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good stuff. Where you staying?
[17:19] <KT5TK_QRL> I'll be touring through South England with my wife. Rent a car
[17:19] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice. Well there's plenty here (if you've not been before)
[17:20] <KT5TK_QRL> I've been to England and Wales long ago, but not recently.
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[17:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Especially if we get to do a launch with James
[17:21] <KT5TK_QRL> Our destinations will be Exmoor and Dartmoor NPs
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[17:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyway, I have to go now. Dinner calls :-) Speak to you again soon - 73
[17:21] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[17:22] <KT5TK_QRL> Jcoxon: we need to stay in touch for the exact location and time
[17:22] <KT5TK_QRL> It'll be fun.
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[18:02] <craag> conf launch??
[18:02] <craag> where/when?
[18:03] <arko> ooo
[18:03] <arko> im down to watch
[18:04] <craag> I'll bring a 100g if it's NOTAMed :)
[18:04] <arko> isn't london a rough place to launch from?
[18:04] <craag> mfa298: Would your payload be ready by then?
[18:04] <craag> Yeah, I assume it'd be from cambridge on the Sunday.
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[18:06] <mattbrejza> craag: / mfa298 stop off at epsom downs and launch a pico there :P
[18:06] <mattbrejza> i think the idea was to launch outside london on sat, then travel in for the conf
[18:06] <craag> Ah ok
[18:06] <craag> even earlier getting-up :/
[18:07] <mattbrejza> inflate the night before and keep in the car
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[18:07] <mattbrejza> then when going over the north downs let it out the sunroof
[18:07] <craag> lol
[18:07] <craag> Could always launch the night before and recover on the way..
[18:07] <craag> (i'll attempt a float, but it won't work)
[18:08] <craag> Then we can tell who's tracked it, they'll be the ones yawning all day
[18:09] <mattbrejza> well put a txco on :P
[18:09] <mattbrejza> then we can tell who the super keen are
[18:09] <craag> hmm
[18:09] <mattbrejza> or those doing their presentation the night before
[18:09] <craag> lol yes that as well
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[18:09] <mattbrejza> so whos winning the furthest travelling award this year?
[18:10] ibanezmatt13 (5680911e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.128.145.30) joined #highaltitude.
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[18:10] <craag> anybody know the functional difference of the NTX2B/MTX
[18:10] <mattbrejza> has tcxo
[18:10] <mattbrejza> tahts about ut
[18:10] <mattbrejza> it
[18:10] <craag> both do?
[18:10] <mattbrejza> erm
[18:10] <mattbrejza> perhaps :P
[18:10] <mattbrejza> i would ahve thought so, its not big
[18:11] <craag> I think Upu said they did. Will probably grab some MTX2s once they're on sale.
[18:11] <Upu> hola
[18:11] <Upu> no functional difference
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[18:11] <craag> Evening Upu
[18:12] <Upu> however still discussing with them about getting a programmable version
[18:12] <craag> Ok cool, how heavy are the MTX2s roughly?
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[18:12] <Upu> 1 sec I'll check
[18:12] <Upu> this doesn't have a can on it
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[18:13] <Upu> 1.86g
[18:13] <craag> :O
[18:13] <craag> great!
[18:13] <Upu> ntx2b with can 4.52g
[18:13] <Upu> original ntx2 5.66g
[18:14] <Upu> NTX2B sans can 2.01g
[18:14] <craag> Oh so not much in it
[18:14] <Upu> nope
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[18:14] <Upu> I suspect you won't get a canless version
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:14] <mattbrejza> Upu: will radiometrix give you a range of freqs for the new ntxw?
[18:14] <mattbrejza> 2
[18:15] <Upu> well mattbrejza
[18:15] <Upu> I'm negotiating with them
[18:15] <Upu> I think at the moment best I'm going to get is a mixed bag
[18:15] <Upu> I'll give them a range
[18:15] <Upu> i.e avoiding repeater input frequencies to stop all the silly arguments
[18:15] <mattbrejza> well the main thing is that not everyone has one of two frequencies
[18:16] <Upu> yeah they've already said I can have whatever I want
[18:16] <Upu> its just firmware for them
[18:17] <mattbrejza> :)
[18:17] <mattbrejza> not that i intend to start using the ntx2 again
[18:17] <LeoBodnar> It would be nice if habitat would warn about TX frequencies clash on filing the flight plans
[18:18] <mattbrejza> although the email goes out a week in advance of a flight, and the doc only one or two days befor e hand
[18:18] <Upu> Its going to open up DominoEX to people
[18:18] <craag> Is the MTX2 analog input like the NTX2?
[18:18] <Upu> very easy to get the correct spacing just stick a 130k resistor and drive by PWM (from a 5V AVR)
[18:18] <Upu> yes
[18:18] <mattbrejza> oh, i guess the txco is a bigger thing than i gave it credit for
[18:18] <craag> That makes things easy.
[18:18] <Upu> vctcxo
[18:19] <Upu> its perfectly linear response 0-3V
[18:19] <Upu> so I've been told need to verify that
[18:19] <Upu> its a drop in replacement for the NTX2
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> Easy solution for AFSK pre-emphsising too
[18:20] <Randomskk> sounds nice
[18:20] <Randomskk> just give them all the UK repeater inputs as our channel selections
[18:20] <Randomskk> though don't we now have that code to find the right divider values for any freq we want?
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> Just high an RC shaping network.
[18:20] <Upu> lol
[18:21] <Upu> I know that works lovely too
[18:21] <craag> So the big question, when can we start flying them??!
[18:21] <Upu> now
[18:21] <Upu> Will be giving away 2 at the conference
[18:21] <Upu> probably raffle
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[18:21] <Upu> James has one
[18:21] <Upu> Dave has 2
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> nvm, I can't understand what I'm typing myself.
[18:21] <craag> And then on the shop after that?
[18:21] <Upu> one of mine "fell apart"
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[18:22] <Upu> I'll badger Radiometrix for prices
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[18:23] <eroomde> 'we'll take something from pop culture and analyse it in a pseudo intellectual way'
[18:23] <eroomde> from a spoof of Front Row on radio 4
[18:23] <eroomde> i just turned the radio on and heard them reviewing One Direction: The Movie in very serious tones
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[18:24] <Babs__> what were you delivering to the New Forest anyway? "Hand delivering a package in the New Forest" is the stuff of gossip column gold
[18:25] <arko> eroomde: shoot the radio
[18:25] <arko> its the only way
[18:25] <eroomde> stuff for aerostat safety
[18:25] <Babs__> its the American way
[18:26] <Babs__> if you can't attach an engine to it or fire it, its not worth anything.
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[18:26] <BF3|Will> Hi Upu
[18:26] <arko> it's scary how quicky Idiocracy is becoming a documentary...
[18:26] Nick change: BF3|Will -> Willdude123
[18:26] <Babs__> i am told that the US Postal Service actually commissioned a study to see whether postal workers in the US were more likely to "Go Postal" than others in the same wage bracket
[18:26] <arko> eroomde: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-puKhTKFUUB0/UhzqwU-9wZI/AAAAAAAAfzk/b-raL-LTON4/w753-h1004-no/20130827_110527.jpg
[18:27] <Babs__> nice eroomde. physical product.
[18:27] <eroomde> Babs__: yep
[18:27] <eroomde> arko: what is it?
[18:27] <arko> rfid reader/writer/emulator with an oled
[18:27] <arko> its going to be the badge for layerone next year
[18:27] <arko> proto at the moment
[18:27] <Willdude123> What's this thing about the MTX2, or was that a typo?
[18:28] <Willdude123> Is there a new radio module?
[18:28] <craag> It'
[18:28] <craag> s a new radio module
[18:28] <eroomde> Babs__: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcanvln4or8970u/cutdowns.JPG
[18:28] <eroomde> during manufacture
[18:28] <craag> compact NTX2, and with a more stable crystal
[18:28] <Willdude123> Ah nice
[18:28] <Willdude123> How compact?
[18:28] <eroomde> they bring down tethered aerostats if they detach from their moorings
[18:28] <eroomde> arko: that's awesome
[18:28] <arko> :)
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[18:29] <eroomde> Babs__: it's my new design, but it's a product we've been doing for several years
[18:29] <craag> Willdude123: In the front: http://i.imgur.com/1PZowla.jpg
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: may I ask what the ICs on it are?
[18:29] <arko> whats the box made of?
[18:29] <arko> plastic?
[18:29] <eroomde> so there's an atmega128
[18:29] <Babs__> with a boom to the envelope, or some kind of return to base motor control?
[18:29] <eroomde> yes
[18:29] <eroomde> abs
[18:29] <arko> ah
[18:29] <eroomde> with a transparent lid
[18:30] <eroomde> and a rubber seal
[18:30] <eroomde> Babs__: hot wire
[18:30] <arko> doesn't abs get "static-y"
[18:30] <eroomde> not that i've noticed
[18:30] <arko> ah
[18:30] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: there's a max7q
[18:30] <arko> i love those connectors
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> right, there are 4 that I'm curious about
[18:30] <arko> old military look
[18:31] <eroomde> there's an op90 op-amp which is used to sense the current going through the hot-wire (it does self test on startup to check the hot-wire is healthy among other things)
[18:31] <Willdude123> Is 434mhz the only license free band that allows airborne use?
[18:31] <Babs__> and that thing is to receive the signal and enable the current?
[18:31] <Upu> I have the MAX7Q in stock now btw
[18:31] <eroomde> the three in the bottom-right are mosfets
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: nice, thanks
[18:31] <eroomde> 20A jobbies
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[18:31] <eroomde> and a bunch of 3-pin bipolar mosfets
[18:32] <eroomde> which are just used to provide 12V to the mosfet gates
[18:32] <eroomde> Babs__: which thing?
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> cool, I gotta make something like that one day :)
[18:32] <Babs__> apologies, by thing i meant https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcanvln4or8970u/cutdowns.JPG
[18:32] <eroomde> the metal strip on the bottom right is a precision 0.01% resistor used for the current sensing
[18:32] <Babs__> i apologise for calling it a thing
[18:32] <mattbrejza> Willdude123: theres a long list. look at ofcom ir2030
[18:33] <eroomde> gtg food
[18:33] <arko> smd shunt?
[18:33] <eroomde> yup
[18:33] <arko> nice!
[18:33] <arko> i've been wondering about those
[18:33] <mfa298> Willdude123: however 434 tends to have the best compromise of power, distance and antenna size
[18:34] <arko> i also have some questions about knowing people in the custom asic world when you have a chance
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[18:36] <Willdude123> arko, ASICs are thise bitcoin things, right?
[18:36] <arko> ASIC = Application Specific Integrated Circuit
[18:36] <arko> so think custom chips designed to do certain functions very well and fast
[18:37] <mfa298> asic's have been around a lot longer than bitcoin
[18:37] <arko> a lot of people are creating asic's for bitcoins
[18:37] <mattbrejza> what did you want to make a asic for arko ?
[18:37] <arko> stuff and things :)
[18:37] <mattbrejza> super secret single IC tracker?
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[18:37] <arko> hahah
[18:37] <arko> nah
[18:37] <mattbrejza> (good luck with that)
[18:38] <arko> it would be cool though
[18:38] <arko> but its not for habing sadly
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[18:38] <mattbrejza> i heard its typically $10k-$20k for a small number of asics
[18:38] <mattbrejza> in like 0.13um
[18:38] <arko> Willdude123: bitcoins have a certain set of math equations that need to be crunched, so people create these asic's to make them cruch the math fast
[18:39] <arko> unlike cpu's you program which are slow and single/multi threaded
[18:39] <arko> mattbrejza: it's expensive alright
[18:40] <mattbrejza> that mask...
[18:41] <arko> in my case i need some math crunched very fast, but not for bitcoins
[18:42] <mfa298> presumably faster than a good gpu can do it (or in a different sort of package)
[18:45] <arko> yeah
[18:45] <arko> and fpga could do it
[18:45] <arko> but it's expensive
[18:45] <arko> at large scale
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> Somebody was doing custom silicon pools pretty much like PCB-pooling but you are still looking at £20-30,000 to spin a chip
[18:45] <arko> yeah
[18:45] <arko> damn expensive stuff
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> And you have to wait for others to catch up or being prodded by others waiting for you
[18:47] <arko> im just going to start my own ic manufacturing, make these giant transistors
[18:47] <arko> photolith on my own :P
[18:47] <arko> crazy talk
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> azonberg over on ##electronics
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> Have seen too much of Jeri?
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> arko:
[18:48] <arko> LeoBodnar: ellsworth?
[18:48] <arko> SpeedEvil: cool
[18:49] <arko> wow that channel is huge
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> azonberg has plans for a home cmos foundry
[18:49] <arko> LeoBodnar: met here while she was working at valve
[18:49] <arko> saw here at defcon years before, very nice person
[18:49] <arko> querky and cool
[18:49] <arko> SpeedEvil: thats awesome
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> THere is massive amount of IC production equipment flogged on eBay for almost nothing
[18:49] <arko> hope he succeeds
[18:49] <KT5TK_QRL> I definitely like the idea of an asic with integrated GPS, Micro, GPS locked PLL and a temperature & pressure sensor
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> After you have destroyed your US IC manufacturing base :)
[18:50] <arko> LeoBodnar: yeah, saw a nice wirebonder the other day
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: more DIY
[18:50] Action: SpeedEvil has a fab 4 miles away.
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> semefab.co.uk
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> they even do mems
[18:51] <arko> KT5TK_QRL: i had the sad feeling of looking at my wallet
[18:51] <arko> i wish i was Woz rich
[18:51] <arko> i'd just do this crazy stuff all day long
[18:51] <arko> hab asic? sure here's $30k have fun
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> Girls in my school did wirebonding while boys did soldering as a work experience thingy.
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> Just don't crash your plane please
[18:52] <KT5TK_QRL> Try kickstarter?
[18:52] <arko> hahah
[18:53] <arko> Woz is also a very very nice person
[18:53] <arko> i invited him to my podcast and he showed up
[18:53] <Chetic> how can I calculate if I have enough helium?
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> What's the point if it is still attached to 7g battery?
[18:53] <arko> that blew my mind
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> My latest tracker was 10.7g ready to fly.
[18:53] <arko> LeoBodnar: exactly
[18:53] <arko> we need smaller enegizer lithiums
[18:54] <arko> or the same tech in a coin
[18:54] <arko> that goes to -40c or what not
[18:54] <arko> LeoBodnar: how well did the mylar work?
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> High current ZnAir for me please
[18:54] <chrisstubbs> Dont buy maplin soldering iron tips http://bit.ly/15eXLyS
[18:54] <arko> ZnAir dies at altitude no?
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> Q: can it solder? A I am sorry this product does not support that.
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> Haha
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> Just goes progressively slower.
[18:56] <arko> lol
[18:56] <arko> metcal for life!
[18:57] <arko> best solder stations in the world
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> Do they use Curie point temperature control?
[18:58] <Babs__> i found a shop at the end of the road of my new house on saturday that sold solder. i was made up. then i got it home and found it does nothing more than sit as a globule on the end of the tip when i try to tin it. from elated to depression in a little over 10 mins.
[18:59] <arko> LeoBodnar: yes
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> Did they say solder or sodder Babs__ ?
[18:59] <arko> LeoBodnar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Wmqc9O24w
[18:59] <arko> ask Upu, he has one too now
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> PID the way Nature wanted it to be.
[19:00] <arko> you can get them on ebay for $200 or so
[19:00] <Babs__> solder. it was a bizarre shop still. they charged me £2 for a 4 gang extension lead and 1.99 for a pp3 battery clip. i had a feeling she was making the pricings up.
[19:00] <Upu> oh hell yeah
[19:00] <Upu> my fave thing every
[19:00] <Upu> Metcal MX something Ultrafine
[19:00] <arko> yeah
[19:01] <Upu> 5200
[19:01] <arko> i want that next
[19:01] <Babs__> right, i have to go. i have to cycle and no lights. winter is here already. laters
[19:01] <arko> my current metcal is good, but i like the new ones
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[19:01] <arko> winter?
[19:01] <arko> whats that?
[19:01] <wrea> lol
[19:01] <arko> im going tomorrow to buy long pants, that should be interesting
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[19:02] <wrea> Theres this thing called snow, it happens in winter
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> It's what happens after spring here
[19:02] <arko> im still going to do the "daveake method" and continue my tradition of tshirt and shorts
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> trousers arko, trousers
[19:02] <arko> he showed me it's possible
[19:02] <arko> trousers fine fine
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> XD
[19:02] <arko> crazy kids and your weird words
[19:02] <arko> :P
[19:03] <daveake> arko that's the eroomde method; I just pay him royalties
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[19:03] <arko> damn
[19:03] <wrea> Never met someone who called pants only pants
[19:03] Action: arko erases the name on the check and writes in eroomde
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[19:05] <daveake> Though I've probably been wearing shorts since eroomde was in shorts. er....
[19:05] <arko> wat
[19:06] <arko> shorts and tshirt dude, best thing ever
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> Re: Bitcoins. We are in "Enthusiasm" phase now http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/TGVCk8Aca-I/AAAAAAAAGJc/ksuuLN2zafA/s640/BubblePsychology.png
[19:06] <arko> Leo BUY BUY BUY
[19:08] <wrea> I was in a tshirt and shorts in the snow up here one winter, gf wasnt happy :P
[19:09] <arko> haha
[19:09] <wrea> I think it was during after the ice storm 2 years ago when we didnt have power for 5 days
[19:10] <wrea> We dont get that much snow, so it was only a foot maybe of snow, but coming from the bay area anything measurable is a lot :P
[19:12] <wrea> Anyone doing arm based boards?
[19:13] <Upu> The Pi ?
[19:14] <craag> I'm playing with a KL25z M0+ board.
[19:14] <craag> Might see if I can do SSDV with the new sparkfun camera on it.
[19:18] <wrea> I was meaning to get one of those boards when they came out last year
[19:19] <craag> I've wimped out and am using the mbed libraries
[19:20] <craag> But they're fast little boards, oodles of IO and really low power consumption.
[19:22] <craag> Oh, I've launched an Cortex M3 board as well. Had a bit of a disaster when it was launched with a typo in a last-minute code change though which caused 1 telemetry string to be sent every 2 minutes... lost it..
[19:22] <craag> I've tried to forget about that one.
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[19:26] <wrea> I was looking at using an M3 myself
[19:26] <mattbrejza> M0 might be a better choice as you dont tend to need the power of the M3
[19:26] <mattbrejza> is the M0+ out yet>
[19:27] <mattbrejza> ?
[19:27] <craag> Yeah M3 is overkill
[19:27] <craag> mattbrejza: Yes, I have one here!
[19:27] <mattbrejza> however the M3 probably still uses less power than an AVR
[19:27] <craag> mattbrejza: M3 was EMECS-athon
[19:27] <mattbrejza> ah thought so
[19:28] <craag> M0+ has some crazy low power sleep modes you can go into with interrupts still running.
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[19:29] <craag> If you're not careful your regulator will consume more quiescent power than the core!
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[19:32] <fsphil> isn't that like dividing by zero?
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> I'll join in - I have SAM3U Cortex-M3 based board. Lesson I: ARM coolness is greatly exaggerated.
[19:39] <craag> Why do you say that?
[19:41] <Willdude123> craag, your website is really coo
[19:41] <Willdude123> l
[19:41] <Willdude123> How do you document everything you do so well?
[19:42] <craag> Willdude123: I take a lot of time to do it :)
[19:42] <craag> And often go back and rewrite bits.
[19:42] <mfa298> doing good documentation takes time and practice but it's often worth it in the long run
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> By the time you have libraries, compilers, debuggers, etc installed and paid for you are clutching at straws trying to convince yourself that 16bit DSP wasn't better cheaper and consumed 100nA.
[19:43] <fsphil> it only took me 2 days compiling gcc for arm :)
[19:43] <mattbrejza> if youre on windows and want your stm32 to just work, coIDE is a nice choice
[19:43] <Willdude123> craag, you also have a very nice CB
[19:43] <Willdude123> CV
[19:43] <craag> Yeah, it's great when someone asks if you know 'how to put an aprs digipeater on a pi' and I can jsut give them a URL on my website :)
[19:43] <craag> CV needs updating..
[19:43] <Willdude123> Talking of CB, my grandma asked if I was still into my CB radio.
[19:43] <craag> latest job didn't even read it :P
[19:44] <Willdude123> I'll have to write a CV at some point next year. Not sure what I'm doing for my options though
[19:44] <craag> LeoBodnar: I got a basic toolchain running in an hour or so. But I do use mbed now, far easier :)
[19:44] <Willdude123> craag, how did they employ you then?
[19:44] <mattbrejza> i didnt write a cv until 2nd year uni i think
[19:45] <Willdude123> I'm thinking of taking French, History and Computing.
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> ARM is not a quantum leap vs lovely dsPIC33. AT least I have hard determinism in dsPIC core and know my interrupts and instruction timing.
[19:45] <Willdude123> They're the only options we get really.
[19:45] <craag> Willdude123: Phone interview, they looked at the website (I tracked them on access logs), then face-to-face interview.
[19:45] <Willdude123> Computing probably won't run.
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> Have you been snooping on them snooping?
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Yeah my company didnt read my CV, I brought along some photos of stuff I had worked on which the interviewer much prefered
[19:46] <wrea> craag: I'd be using mbed too, but I have someone I can bug if I run into problems which will help :P
[19:46] <craag> LeoBodnar: Of course, watching them on google analytics realtime during the phone interview :)
[19:46] <Willdude123> I'm a bit disappointed really, as I don't get much choice with my options
[19:46] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: how do dsPICs compare on price to stm32f, because the stm32s are silly cheap
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> Anything below £10 is cheap unless your target market is Poundland
[19:47] <Willdude123> Oh dear http://www.bishopchalloner.hants.sch.uk/pabulum-catering/theme-day2-black-history-month.pdf
[19:48] <Willdude123> As Morgan Freeman would say: "Black History is stupid"
[19:48] <wrea> wow
[19:48] <Willdude123> *Black history month
[19:48] <craag> wrea: mbed and it's online compiler makes things so easy cross-platform. Once you stop hating it for being a web IDE at least.
[19:48] <craag> I think you can download a toolchain now...
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> £1.83 from Farnell so probably £0.50 from MicrochipDirect @100+ http://uk.farnell.com/microchip/dspic33fj16gp102-i-so/dsp-16k-flash-28soic/dp/1971854
[19:49] <wrea> Yeah
[19:49] <Willdude123> craag, would you say computing GCSE is worth it?
[19:50] <mattbrejza> ah not bad then
[19:50] <craag> Willdude123: I haven't a clue, I know nothing about it.
[19:50] <craag> GCSE was a little while ago..
[19:50] <mattbrejza> i seem to remember the avr being near £5, but they were having suppy issues at thte time
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[19:51] <Willdude123> Hmm
[19:51] <Willdude123> I really don't want to have to select my options (or lack thereof really)
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> Yes having the ICs discontinued from under your feet with no drop-in replacement sucks.
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> Try North Korea.
[19:53] <mattbrejza> would be lolz if the atemga328 was discontinued
[19:54] <mattbrejza> the arduino people would revolt
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[19:54] <Willdude123> DAE find it annoying when teachers say 'don't cut and paste off the internet'?
[19:55] <mattbrejza> how dare they say that
[19:55] <mattbrejza> how inconsiderate
[19:55] <mattbrejza> after all, whats the point in doing the work yourself when someone else has already done it for you
[19:57] <tweetBot> @daveake: Great #BBCClickRadio item on my Babbage flight now available at http://t.co/3rahhzyffz #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
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[20:01] <LeoBodnar> daveake: Correcting the jornos is pointless. It's like giving directions to a Brownian particle.
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[20:01] <daveake> True. I tried but failed.
[20:01] <mattbrejza> he got it right at the end
[20:02] <Willdude123> mattbrejza, exactly.
[20:02] <daveake> Mind you, I was directing some brownian motion particles into my mouth at the time
[20:02] <Willdude123> I suppose it's allegedly to make them learn it
[20:02] <daveake> BBC Berks one - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/368443/HAB/BBC%20Radio%20Berkshire.mp3
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> But still a massive positive plug for the whole community Dave! Well done :D
[20:03] <daveake> ta :)
[20:03] <fsphil> indeed
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[20:09] <Willdude123> Thanks dave. Even the mirror seemed interested
[20:09] <Willdude123> daveake, hot air balloons :)
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[20:30] <Willdude123> Just an average evening making songs high pitched https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/a.wav
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[20:33] <craag> mattbrejza: Very happy to report that your decoder app works great on the new Nexus 7 :D
[20:34] <mattbrejza> :D
[20:36] <craag> OSM tile rendering is quite slow compared to other OSM apps though.
[20:36] <Willdude123> craag, my English teacher just now, "From the above text we can infer, although not specifically mentioned in the text that craag has a new Nexus 7. We can allso tell from the subtext that craag was unhappy with life without his Nexus 7 and deeply enjoys the benefits of it. We can also infer that his disposition is somewhat technical, which meant that he was bullied at school by a man named John and he has regretted his technical know
[20:36] <Willdude123> how since then."
[20:38] <craag> Haven't known anyone at school called John..
[20:38] <craag> And I wouldn't say I was unhappy without it.
[20:39] <Willdude123> Exactly.
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[20:39] <craag> It'll be good to have a tablet with GPS in it for HAB stuff. My phone overheats and refuses to charge when running more than one map/gps program it seems.
[20:39] <Willdude123> Hence my example of Englis teachers
[20:39] <Willdude123> They typically read into the text too much]
[20:39] <craag> Also TV looks awesome on it :)
[20:40] <Willdude123> craag, My english teacher studied english at cambridge and can't spell peaceful
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[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Is that how he, or you spell it?
[20:43] <craag> So BBC media player (the one that does the tv streaming and playing) is compatible with Android 2.3 Since 23 Jul, but BBC iplayer (it's partner app that just lets you chose what to watch), still isn't..
[20:43] <Willdude123> How I spell it, not how she spells it.
[20:43] <craag> *4.3
[20:43] <Willdude123> She spells it peacefull
[20:44] <Willdude123> I'm on 4.3 and have both.
[20:44] <Willdude123> I think
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> me too
[20:44] Action: SpeedEvil checks.
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - both work
[20:45] <craag> Hmm, guess it's just the nexus 7 then.
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> on nexus 7 - 2012
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[20:45] <SpeedEvil> i haven't checked if it's still available on play store for 4.3 - I OTA'd
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> i dunno if you OTA, apps will stop working.
[20:46] <Willdude123> craag, do you know if there are trade in deals for the new one?
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: ebay
[20:46] <craag> ^^
[20:47] <craag> I wouldn't say it's worth upgrading to from the old one though.
[20:47] <craag> I'm upgrading from a 1st gen kindle fire, so quite a jump.
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Topcashback +ebuyer - has a 1.5% discount - and then a 15 quid voucher off next order at ebuyer
[20:47] <Willdude123> Ebay or ebuyer?
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> And you can also get 3% cashback credit cards - well....
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> ebuyer
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> ebay lets you sell the old one
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> I like that. FAA: "In an emergency, the pilot may violate any regulation as necessary to safely resolve the emergency, but must be prepared to justify his or her actions."
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> Prices will have crashed though
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It's the regulation which means you don't need a licence to fly a 747
[20:49] <Willdude123> Wow
[20:49] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil, google says not out in the UK
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> Google lies.
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> Then you are not classed at the "pilot" in the first place and the above quote does not apply XD
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebuyer.com/shop/new-google-nexus-7-tablet-pc
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Can deliver wednesday
[20:50] <mattbrejza> craag: dont blame me for map rendering times :P still much better than sn.us on a dodgy internet connection
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[20:51] <Willdude123> Probably not worth i
[20:51] <craag> mattbrejza: Oh yeah, it's a million times better than sn.us, particularly at the end of a >50 baud flight.
[20:51] <craag> I was just hoping it would be fast on my 4x cpus :)
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[20:52] <mattbrejza> im not sure if it multithreads
[20:52] <mattbrejza> i tihnk it might actually
[20:52] <mattbrejza> based on cpu load figures
[20:53] <craag> All this tablet's done is made me a lot more impatient :P
[20:53] <Willdude123> Damn top cashback is cool.
[20:53] <Willdude123> I need to buy something though :)
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Well - it's cool if you put the stuff you were going to biyu anyway through it - and compare the prices from stores with and without cashback
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Best cashback is often not best price
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> They may or may not be the reason that tesco thinks i'm 4 people.
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[20:56] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: As a random point - moneysavingexpert.com - perhaps you could get brownie points by working out savings on household budget
[20:56] <Willdude123> Doubt it
[20:56] <Willdude123> My dad's an accountant, he know's his personal finance
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[21:26] <tweetBot> @daveake: MSN "Teddy Bear Beats Felix" http://t.co/TGjQhZcaPQ #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
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[21:26] <arko> "Baumgartner's skydiving record beaten by teddy bear"
[21:26] <arko> hahaha
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[21:28] <arko> baumgartners face when he reads that headline would be priceless
[21:29] <daveake> I need to see that :)
[21:29] <arko> lol
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[21:29] <arko> send him this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DGGcdZ4KYbA/T5FeDLPuJJI/AAAAAAAACKo/2ofTef2oC0w/s640/good-good-let-the-jimmies-rustle-through-you.png
[21:30] <arko> or at least tweet at him "u mad bro?"
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[21:31] <daveake> :)
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[21:34] <zsentinel> daveake: the jump video up yet?
[21:34] <zsentinel> from ted's fall
[21:35] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I41ooQQ_RIw
[21:35] <zsentinel> thx
[21:35] <zsentinel> oh this i saw
[21:35] <zsentinel> i mean like the footage from the bear
[21:36] <Upu> Oh I think the SD card dislodged so possibly not
[21:36] <Bo_DK> Q: total unrelated to HAB.... anyone knows where to get a mini scissor jack like ones used on cars?
[21:36] <Upu> subscribe to Daves youtube channel
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[21:36] <Bo_DK> the ones that are inside the spare tyre
[21:37] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/choccydonuts
[21:37] <Bo_DK> maybe even one to 3d print
[21:37] <Bo_DK> google have not been my friend on it
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[21:38] <crash_18974> Bo_DK: Harbor freight once (or does) sell a mini floor hack that works.
[21:38] <zsentinel> 3d print a floor jack?
[21:38] <zsentinel> for real?
[21:38] <zsentinel> i dont see that going well
[21:38] <Bo_DK> not a floor jack
[21:38] <Bo_DK> a MINI scissor jack
[21:38] <zsentinel> lol i thought you mean for the car "mini"
[21:38] <Bo_DK> nope
[21:39] <Bo_DK> and its not a mini... its a BMW
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[21:39] <zsentinel> is it for a model set or something?
[21:39] <Bo_DK> the brand mini is gone years ago
[21:39] <Bo_DK> zsentinel: kind of... its for a tracking platfoirm
[21:39] <Bo_DK> i have most of it
[21:40] <Bo_DK> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:22423
[21:40] <Bo_DK> not going to track sun with it
[21:40] <Bo_DK> but HAB's
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[21:40] <zsentinel> interesting
[21:40] <Bo_DK> a fullsize var jack is overkill
[21:40] <zsentinel> you want to modify their design and use it?
[21:41] <Bo_DK> nope... just replace tha car jack they use with a 3d printed one....
[21:41] <zsentinel> i am not sure if you will find a mini version of that jack only because then its light enough to lift manually
[21:41] <crash_18974> Bo_DK: I thought I saw a printable scissor jack on thingiverse. It might be under open source scientific - or something like that.
[21:41] <Bo_DK> and attach a servo instead
[21:41] <zsentinel> so 3d printing is probably going to be your only option
[21:42] <zsentinel> i cant see finding one pre made somewhere
[21:42] <Bo_DK> zsentinel: hehe... its was 3d print i was after
[21:42] <crash_18974> lab jack - http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28298
[21:43] <zsentinel> Bo_DK: i meant mini cooper
[21:43] <zsentinel> its a usa car only maybe
[21:43] <zsentinel> they are called "mini" for short
[21:43] <Bo_DK> zsentinel: we have them here too
[21:43] <zsentinel> i dont think bmw owns mini cooper but i could be wrong?
[21:43] <Bo_DK> zsentinel: they do....
[21:44] <Bo_DK> sold through bwm dealers
[21:44] <zsentinel> interesting
[21:44] <Bo_DK> have one 2km away
[21:44] <Bo_DK> so the mini part is long gone... its just a small bmw
[21:44] <zsentinel> you mean BMC?
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[21:44] <Bo_DK> crash_18974: looks interesting
[21:44] <Bo_DK> zsentinel: no.. BMW
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[21:45] <crash_18974> it might give you some ideas if nothing else.
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[21:46] <zsentinel> Bo_DK: i guess bmc was the original creator and they sold to bmw
[21:46] <Bo_DK> zsentinel: if they where not down and gone long time agio
[21:46] <Bo_DK> ago
[21:46] <Bo_DK> crash_18974: yes..... just need to make it "thinner"
[21:46] <Bo_DK> other than that almost perfect
[21:47] <Bo_DK> going to use it to move a yagi....
[21:48] <Bo_DK> next to this a'm building a board that should enable a BBB to act as an autonomus tracker/listner/decoder
[21:48] <Bo_DK> the yagi will be home made
[21:48] <Bo_DK> out of pcv pipe and TIG welding rod
[21:51] <Bo_DK> but programming the BB is going to be the lesser "fun" part in that i have to learn programming from scratch
[21:52] <wrea> I'm going to be doing that too
[21:53] <Bo_DK> learn programming?
[21:53] <wrea> the tracking
[21:53] <Bo_DK> oh
[21:54] <Bo_DK> good at programming for BBB/raspi?
[21:54] <wrea> I'll probably do it in python
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[21:56] <Bo_DK> ok
[21:56] <Bo_DK> wrea: big q....
[21:56] <Bo_DK> hmm
[21:56] <Bo_DK> let me think....
[21:56] <Bo_DK> em
[21:56] <Bo_DK> the eletronics i have put on a custom cape is gps... compas and headers for servos
[21:57] <Bo_DK> and menu buttons
[21:57] <Bo_DK> and a small lcd
[21:57] <Bo_DK> what i had in mind was to be able to select payload on display and it would automatic figure in what direction and how much above horizon
[21:57] <Bo_DK> let me get the dropbox link
[21:59] <Bo_DK> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ffhrigdf29zb5om/CdkEst8aoL
[21:59] <Bo_DK> should be latest from tonight
[21:59] <Bo_DK> also made capes for solar charge and regulators
[22:00] <Bo_DK> so in the end it could be an full automatic tracker
[22:00] <Bo_DK> i work in eagle... but i think you have found out by now
[22:00] <wrea> Further along than I am :P
[22:01] <wrea> But similar idea I have
[22:02] <Bo_DK> my plan was to get the HAB cape off to china within a week or 2
[22:02] <Bo_DK> and build them up....
[22:02] <Bo_DK> pcb service is 10 boards minimum for 10$
[22:03] <Bo_DK> and parts is prop with a minimum so i end up with enough for at least 5
[22:03] <Bo_DK> so could build you one if the design is good enough
[22:03] <Bo_DK> open to suggestions thou
[22:04] <Bo_DK> the trickery part is to interface with the tracking server to get list of payloads and their pos
[22:04] <Bo_DK> and calculate where to aim
[22:05] <wrea> Shouldnt be too hard
[22:05] <Bo_DK> not if you know how to
[22:06] <Bo_DK> my end plan is to have something compact enough to either mount on car roof rails... or on camera tripod
[22:06] <Bo_DK> you might say tripod is a bit unstable... but a sandback can do a lot
[22:07] <wrea> Depends on the tripod
[22:07] <Bo_DK> yep...
[22:07] <wrea> As long as you're not using a cheap one, you'll be fine
[22:07] <wrea> A surveyor's tripod would be good
[22:07] <Bo_DK> yes.. and if its windy i had the sandbag in mind
[22:07] <Bo_DK> or some wheight
[22:08] <Bo_DK> as i plan to add solar panels and a 12V battery that could be used to keep it down :-D
[22:08] <Bo_DK> btw... where are you located?
[22:08] <Bo_DK> me Denmark.... odense to be excat...
[22:09] <wrea> As for calculation, if you have the tripods gps coord's and the balloons, pythagoreans theorem should get you close
[22:09] <wrea> Or you cloud look at more flat earth stuff
[22:09] <wrea> USA
[22:10] <Willdude123> Hmm I need some help with coming up with a solution to a problem I have. When I right click on my wireless mouse, it doesn't stay down, because the wireless thing seems to report a neutral state when nothing is pressed.
[22:10] <Willdude123> I was thinking I could write an AHK script or something.
[22:10] <Bo_DK> wrea: gps and compas on the board
[22:11] <Willdude123> The problem is, when playing bf3, I have to hold down right click to use the scope
[22:11] <Bo_DK> Willdude123: hmm... hehe i have the oposite problem... my mouse bounces on left button... tried to rip it apart and clean
[22:11] <wrea> Bo_DK: http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm
[22:13] <Bo_DK> wrea: i assume the formulas there take in account that the globe is not flat?
[22:13] <Willdude123> I presume it does the same thing for the left button.
[22:13] <mfa298> Bo_DK: getting data about payloads/flights from habitat isn't hard. Interfacing with the electronics can be more interesting.
[22:13] <Bo_DK> its 00.13am here to not so sharp....
[22:13] <Willdude123> But the rate of update is probably faster than you'd need to shoot with an automatic gun .
[22:14] <Willdude123> But the right button needs to be held constantly
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[22:14] <Bo_DK> Willdude123: hmmm... thinking of a hack....
[22:14] <crash_18974> Bo_DK: have you guys looked into the antenna tracking setups that FPV pilots use?
[22:14] <Willdude123> AHK might work, but might also get a bit annoying
[22:15] <Willdude123> Not sure if it can take clicks on other windows as triggers
[22:15] <Bo_DK> crash_18974: yes.... cost a lot... imho
[22:15] <Iain_G4SGX> Upu: You still up?
[22:15] <Bo_DK> wrea: the hardware side i think i have got hold on
[22:16] <wrea> Bo_DK: As far as I remember. There is a separate section on there for flat earth approximation.
[22:16] <Bo_DK> wrea: just need to make sure the servos do not stutter if timing from BBB is off
[22:16] <crash_18974> Bo_DK: some are open source and arduino based
[22:17] <Bo_DK> wrea: think i will try and make a mockup for the part that moves antenna... have some scrapwood arround
[22:17] <Bo_DK> might not be the thingyverse idea but it will do the trick
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[22:18] <Bo_DK> crash_18974: .... arduino is not "powerfull".... either are raspi... there need to be headroom for decoding also
[22:18] <Bo_DK> so far i have been advied by mikestir to go for BBB
[22:19] <wrea> mine will pretty dumb, just needs wifi really
[22:19] <Bo_DK> also BBB can handle a 3G dongle... or yes wifi
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[22:20] <Bo_DK> mikestir is working on his web radio... with tweaks it should be able to decode... maybe even auto tune
[22:20] <Bo_DK> thats the goal at least
[22:22] <Willdude123> Bo_DK, I found unless DC powered, it wouldn't power USB stuff
[22:22] <Bo_DK> Willdude123: the BBB ?
[22:22] <Willdude123> Yes
[22:22] <Bo_DK> Willdude123: it will be
[22:22] <Willdude123> Oh ok
[22:23] <Bo_DK> Willdude123: have made 3 capes for BBB....
[22:23] <Willdude123> Nice
[22:23] <Willdude123> What do they do? :)
[22:23] <Bo_DK> first one holds gps, compas and 5 menu buttons.. lcd
[22:23] <Bo_DK> next holds just 2 regulators... 3.3V and 5V
[22:23] <Bo_DK> last is solar charge control
[22:24] <Bo_DK> with terminals for solar panel and battery and thermistor
[22:24] <Bo_DK> on their own they do nothing... its programming that makes it tick
[22:25] <WillTablet> Ah ok
[22:25] <charolastra> haha, not bad, TED was just on local national news
[22:26] <Bo_DK> wrea: on twitter?
[22:26] <mfa298> Bo_DK: how are you planning to talk to the compass and lcd? do they use something like serial are are you using gpio pins and timimg within your code ?
[22:26] <G0TDJ_AFK> charolastra: Whaih station?
[22:26] <G0TDJ_AFK> which station...
[22:26] <Bo_DK> mfa298: what code? loool
[22:26] <Bo_DK> not come to that part yet
[22:26] <Bo_DK> but compas is i2c
[22:26] <charolastra> G0TDJ_AFK: ORF it's called
[22:26] <Bo_DK> rest are serial
[22:27] <G0TDJ_AFK> charolastra: Not in the UK?
[22:27] <charolastra> no, austria
[22:27] <Bo_DK> need to get the pcb fabbed first
[22:27] <mfa298> having an idea about how you're going to code it before designing the electronnics can be important.
[22:27] <G0TDJ_AFK> LOL OK. I'm recording BBC Radio stations for Dave where he has been interviewed. It's great he's getting so much publicity though.
[22:27] <Bo_DK> mfa298: you can have a peak at my eagle files if you want to
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[22:28] <mfa298> and language can play a big role as well.
[22:28] <wrea> Bo_DK: @willrea
[22:28] <mfa298> I'm currently writing a Pi tracker, but what I'm doing wouldn't be possible in python
[22:28] <charolastra> G0TDJ_AFK: interview, not bad; here it was because baumgartner is from here i guess
[22:28] <Bo_DK> wrea: @boherrmannsen
[22:29] <G0TDJ_AFK> Right
[22:29] <Bo_DK> mfa298: what are your plans for tracking?
[22:29] <mfa298> this is a pi based payload
[22:30] <Bo_DK> ohhh
[22:30] <mfa298> but I'm trying to do it in a more flexible way so you don't have to keep opening and closing the serial port
[22:30] <Bo_DK> me is doing a ground based tracker
[22:30] <mfa298> but this requires turning gpio pin's on and off with precise timing - which isn't something linux is usually good at.
[22:31] <Bo_DK> mfa298: no i was told.... hence i have to safeguard against the servos stuttering....
[22:31] <KT5TK_QRL> http://orf.at/stories/2196321/2196320/
[22:31] <Bo_DK> like an rc car with transmitter off
[22:33] <mfa298> how do you talk to the servos ?
[22:33] <Bo_DK> for now direct connected on pwm pins of the BBB
[22:34] <Bo_DK> there are 4 of them
[22:34] <Bo_DK> i hope they internal have some tricks to keep them from rocking back and forth
[22:34] <mfa298> that might be something to look at and experiment with, I don't know the BBB but PWM on the pi looks interesting.
[22:34] <Bo_DK> you have eagle installed?
[22:35] <mfa298> and if you need accurate timing it could get interesting
[22:35] <mfa298> I might have it installed
[22:35] <Bo_DK> if so have a peak here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ffhrigdf29zb5om/CdkEst8aoL
[22:36] <Bo_DK> wrea: is it dificult to port arduino code to BBB?
[22:36] <Bo_DK> i have some code for arduino that can track the sun
[22:36] <Bo_DK> ie to get max gain from solar panels
[22:36] <mfa298> Bo_DK: what programming experience do you have ?
[22:37] <Bo_DK> way back a bit of visual basic... and on the arduino a bit too
[22:37] <Bo_DK> but not enough for this task
[22:37] <tweetBot> @thoughtstore: "The sky is the Limit for Googles new Project Loon" http://t.co/ExXff7laqY #nearspace #ukhas #google #balloon
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[22:38] <mfa298> arduino is based on C++ but there are a lot of libraries to hide the detail from you.
[22:38] <mfa298> BBB should be able to use python, C, C++ and a few other languges
[22:39] <mfa298> although if your only real experience of programming is VB I'd stay away from C/C++
[22:39] <Bo_DK> yeah... and this code i have is for one spot... so might not be the best
[22:39] <mfa298> although if timing and jitter are important you may well need C/C++
[22:39] <mfa298> but that's a steep learning curve
[22:39] <Bo_DK> VB was when i was like 20y old
[22:40] <Bo_DK> passing 36 in a week
[22:40] <Bo_DK> so basic i will have to start from scratch
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> goto thebeginning:
[22:43] <mfa298> what LCD are you using ?
[22:43] <mfa298> and are you driving the servos direct (I didn't see any sort of transistor on the schematic for them
[22:43] <Bo_DK> planning on this one on rs232 mode: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370779189389
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[22:44] <Bo_DK> yes direct
[22:44] <Bo_DK> ie pwm pin on servo
[22:44] <Bo_DK> 5V is going to 5V directly
[22:44] <Bo_DK> so load does not flow through BBB
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[22:46] <LeoBodnar> It's a very small OLED, I have one of them on one of the MC dev boards. Active are height is 10mm.
[22:47] <LeoBodnar> 11mm
[22:47] <Bo_DK> its meant to be used to select what payload to track
[22:47] <LeoBodnar> OLEDs need to be very bright if you plan to use them outdoors
[22:48] <LeoBodnar> LCD with a backlight might be more practical.
[22:48] <Bo_DK> main reason was because it was a true serial
[22:48] <LeoBodnar> Ah
[22:49] <Bo_DK> less wires etc
[22:50] <LeoBodnar> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Serial-UART-I2C-SPI-2004-Yellow-Green-LCD-with-Arduino-mBed-Lib-Sample-Code-/171093238090?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item27d5f3a14a
[22:51] <Bo_DK> not bad
[22:51] <Bo_DK> that one slipped my search
[22:52] <Bo_DK> could have checked out sellers other items
[22:52] <Bo_DK> feel like a fool
[22:52] <G0TDJ_AFK> For those who wish to listen: BBC Berkshire interview with Dave about Babbage 'jump' yesterday. In MP3 format: http://www.g0tdj.com/audio/00_Dave_Akerman_interview_on_BBC_Radio_Berkshire_27-08-2013.mp3
[22:52] <G0TDJ_AFK> And : BBC Oxford interview with Dave about Babbage 'jump' yesterday. In MP3 format: http://www.g0tdj.com/audio/03_Dave_Akerman_interview_on_BBC_Oxford_27-08-2013.mp3
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> OLEDs have a few problems - they need more power than LCDs and have burn-in if stuck at the same image. But they work at colder temps than LCDs
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> Also large OLEDs are very expensive
[22:54] <Bo_DK> hehe... dont think it will be much of an issue on ground... who tracks HAB's at below zero?
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> I am not a big fan of them. Considering 95% of OLED panels I have bought in 2005 have stopped working.
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> You have cold winters there
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> It was an issue affecting the whole industry at the time but i should be sorted now.
[22:56] <LeoBodnar> it
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> I don't think I have one oled device
[22:56] <LeoBodnar> if you search eBay for serial or UART LCD arduino you should find at least 10-20
[22:57] <Randomskk> my old phone was AMOLED which was really really nice
[22:57] <Randomskk> I had a little OLED module ages back that was also glorious
[22:57] <Randomskk> such wonderful blacks.
[22:58] <Bo_DK> LeoBodnar: will do.... thou it has to wait for tomorrow.... brain is very slow and demands sleep :-D
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[23:00] <LeoBodnar> I had a pleasure of integrating this beauty http://www.gems.co.uk/?content=pages&id=lds4-driver-display
[23:00] <LeoBodnar> I think it was £2000 or £3000
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[23:01] <Randomskk> nice
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[23:01] <LeoBodnar> I wanted to bug panels separately - Discontinued!
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> *buy
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[23:04] <LeoBodnar> Nighty night!
[23:04] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) left irc:
[23:07] <Bo_DK> same here.....
[23:07] <Bo_DK> almost
[23:08] <Bo_DK> wrea: Q: would it also be easy to use this page to do solar tracking? http://www.iesmith.net/tools/solarcalc.html
[23:12] <mfa298> depends on whether they provide any easy touse api.
[23:13] <Bo_DK> of course
[23:13] <mfa298> however I think the data you need is easily available online and the algorithms are probably fairly simple
[23:13] <Bo_DK> i was thingking of tricking the site to belive that you enter data....
[23:13] <Bo_DK> and then it will deliver the data you need
[23:14] <Bo_DK> mfa298: yes.... this was just the best hit i got so far
[23:14] <Bo_DK> with the speed my mind works at right now
[23:14] <mfa298> it's probably easier and faster to dothe calculations in your own code
[23:14] <Bo_DK> that would be the ideal chioce yes
[23:15] <Bo_DK> one more thing for todo list tomorrow... find the code or formula for it
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[23:17] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_away
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[23:21] <Bo_DK> over and out
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[23:36] <tweetBot> @daveake: Time-lapse video of Babbage fill for launch 2 http://t.co/csmhRmMvWu #RaspberryPi #UKHAS
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[23:41] <KF5WYX> evenin all
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[23:44] <wrea> Evening
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 28 2013