highaltitude.log.20130823

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[02:21] <heathkid> KF5WYX: what's wrong with a nice wool sock? :)
[02:21] <heathkid> minimizes wind noise
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[06:03] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[06:04] <ibanezmatt13> Could somebody approve my flight doc please?
[06:07] <Upu> sure
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[06:07] <Upu> done
[06:07] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[06:17] <x-f> he must be excited and a bit nervous at the same time about now :)
[06:17] <x-f> good morning
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[06:54] <ibanezmatt13> Bit of a problem which I can't sort: https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB/blob/master/NORB.py from line 212
[06:54] <ibanezmatt13> When my payload reaches a certain height, I want it to send back a sentence with no telemetry which I've managed to do perfectly with send("Whatever my sentence is")
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> But it never ever sends anything in that if statment so I'm thinking that for some reason the if statement isn't running
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> But I've checked the altitude variable and it is always more than 50m which for testing the if statement should be enough
[06:55] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[06:56] <daveake> Ah I know what this is
[06:56] <ibanezmatt13> you do?
[06:56] <daveake> Python is aware that "space" starts at 100km
[06:56] <daveake> "altitude 30000km reached. Now in space!" <<--- that's your problem
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[06:57] <ibanezmatt13> don't get it. That 100km is just for testing
[06:57] <daveake> No, I mean it's not "space"
[06:58] <ibanezmatt13> ah :)
[06:58] <ibanezmatt13> so you don't know the actual problem :P
[06:58] <daveake> Python is protecting you from making that hideous mistake
[06:58] <daveake> Anyway, you may need brackets ... if (....) and (...)
[06:58] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, good point
[06:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> by the way daveake I got my flight doc approved :)
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13> ah, brackets made no difference :/
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> this is the most confusing thing. It all looks fine...
[07:04] <daveake> why float() ?
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> err, thought it'd be better for the >=
[07:04] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[07:04] <daveake> 50 is an integer
[07:05] <daveake> Seems superfluous to me
[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> good point
[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> I'll change it
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB/blob/master/NORB.py better?
[07:06] <daveake> ok so try it
[07:06] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> still no luck daveake
[07:09] <daveake> debug it then
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[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> I have been doing. The print statements in the if statement don't print so it must'nt be entering the if statment properly
[07:10] <daveake> I mean, just before the if, print all the variables
[07:10] <daveake> and print the result of the individual tests
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> Just before the if I print altitude, and it returns numbers like "144"
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> And the message counter is definitely below 5
[07:11] <daveake> print it prove it
[07:11] <daveake> I agree though it should be
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'll keep looking
[07:12] <daveake> however python does that indenting thing; what happens if you've got a mix of tabs and spaces?
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> err, I don't remember hitting tab but that could certainly be a problem. I'll just rewrite that if part
[07:13] <daveake> You have tabs on the += line and spaces on the others
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> uhm, ok I'd better change that
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> how do you know?
[07:14] <daveake> Just select the code on git and extend the selected area into the whitespace
[07:14] <daveake> it jumps on the tabs
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> aah
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> didn't work daveake
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[07:19] <ibanezmatt13> what a frustrating problem
[07:20] <daveake> print the variables
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> it prints the variables fine before the if statement, completely misses every print in the if, then it carries on looping as normal
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> so something's stopping it entering that if
[07:21] <daveake> print the results of each half of the if test
[07:22] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[07:25] <fz_> Good morning everyone. We are trying a very basic system here for our first balloon. We tied the NTX2 to the raspberry pi using the wiki instructions
[07:25] <fz_> but we cannot get it works
[07:25] <fz_> Do anyone has a python example?
[07:25] <ibanezmatt13> I do
[07:26] <ibanezmatt13> one sec
[07:26] <daveake> fz_ Have you stopped Linux from opening the port itself yet?
[07:26] <fz_> :|
[07:26] <daveake> Is that a yes or no?
[07:26] <fz_> no, forgot that part :)
[07:27] <daveake> Well there you go :)
[07:27] <Upu> even I know that
[07:27] <Upu> and I'm a Pitard
[07:27] <ibanezmatt13> sudo nano /boot/cmdline.txt
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[07:28] <daveake> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/raspberry-pi-serial-port
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[07:29] <fz_> thanks, going to test that right away
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, news... Print statements in each half of if statement, none print. I even put a huge time delay in the if too but it didn't pause
[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> I think it for some reason mustn't be entering that if statement... :/
[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> I think it could be something to do with the if altitude > 50 part but I'm really not sure
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[07:34] <daveake> Can you do: print altitude > 50
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> what will that do?
[07:34] <daveake> hopefully print true or false. Dunno. Don't know Python enough
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> I think I may be able to
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> yes it does
[07:36] <daveake> repeat for other half of the if test
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[07:40] <ibanezmatt13> still nothing daveake
[07:41] <daveake> What do you mean by "nothing"?. Tell me what each print statement printed
[07:41] <ibanezmatt13> they didn't print. Only the one before and after the if statment printed True
[07:41] <ibanezmatt13> the ones in side didnt
[07:41] <daveake> Yes I wanted 2 print statements before the if
[07:42] <daveake> print (altitude...
[07:42] <daveake> and print (message_counter....
[07:42] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, well altitude was more than 50
[07:42] <daveake> yes now we need the other half
[07:42] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get rid of that message_counter for now. I don't mind if it does it forever for testing
[07:44] <fz_> Tried it, still didn't work. We are using serial.Serial() w/9600bps
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[07:44] <fz_> the hard connection seems ok
[07:46] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: !
[07:46] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[07:46] <ibanezmatt13> I've completely removed any reference to message_counter and boom... success!
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[07:46] <daveake> cool
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> So I wonder what was wrong with message_counter because I will need that
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> I don't want it to constantly send that message
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> I want it to run through about 5 times
[07:47] <x-f> what was the meaning of message_counter? to print the message five times?
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[07:47] <x-f> oh, ok
[07:47] <daveake> yes
[07:47] <x-f> why five? :)
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> err, no idea :)
[07:48] <daveake> fz_ "It doesn't work" isn't really very useful. Does the port open? How do you know it "doesn't work"? What is the port connected to?
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm really stuck as to why it didn't work though x-f
[07:48] <x-f> i've no idea either
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> bizarre
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> wait!
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> IDEA
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> in fact, nevermind
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> in fact it might work. Shall I make message counter global to the read_gps function
[07:49] <daveake> In fact, as it's 1 day till launch, don't mess around with stuff you don't need!
[07:49] <x-f> can you operate with global variables in python?
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: It's such a small mod, if it works in testing I don't think it's the sort of thing that'll crash the program
[07:50] <fz_> daveake: Yeah sorry for the lake of details. the port seems to open (the V changes when I tried to send something) but I cannot "see" anything on fldigi
[07:50] <fz_> which is connected to the receiver
[07:50] <daveake> You're young aren't you ibanezmatt13 ? :)
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> yes :/
[07:50] <daveake> 9600 baud? You won't decode that
[07:50] <daveake> First things first do you see the carrier?
[07:51] <daveake> And set 50 baud you stand a chance of seeing it happen
[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> isn't 50 baud on the Pi a bit dodgy?
[07:52] <daveake> works well enough for this part
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[07:52] <daveake> and it's slower, and much clearer on the waterfall.
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[08:15] <LeoBodnar> Morning!
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> UpuWork: are you around?
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[08:26] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
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[08:36] <LeoBodnar> Upu: are you going to be using 434.500MHz over the weekend?
[08:37] <x-f> yes, PAVA-A, info on the mailing list
[08:38] <x-f> Saturday's launch, about 10.30
[08:38] <LeoBodnar> Is PAVA-A a TCXO based?
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/Project1_GroundCode/blob/master/dltrigger.py I'm trying to read the text file from dl-fldigi and search it for 3 words, it's constantly printing "not yet" but the words are in there
[08:40] <LeoBodnar> egrep
[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> sorry?
[08:40] <x-f> LeoBodnar, don't know that, it will be RTTY - DominoEX and HABduino are on different freqs
[08:41] <LeoBodnar> I have all my code tuned for 434.500MHz so ideally if it has been taken I can shift 1-2kHz up say onto 434.501MHz
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[08:42] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, i think it's time to introduce you to a powerful thing
[08:42] <ed__> import re
[08:42] <x-f> LeoBodnar, you want to launch it this evening?
[08:42] <ed__> go and google that ^
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[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[08:42] <fsphil> you think he's ready?
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> no
[08:42] Action: daveake ponders if anyone's written a tracker with awk yet
[08:43] <ed__> i had a bunch of munging scripts just done in a bashy way
[08:43] <LeoBodnar> awk is my most favourite language
[08:43] <ed__> with grep and awk
[08:43] <ed__> i still do most quick things with awk
[08:43] <Joel_re> LeoBodnar must be elite
[08:43] Action: Joel_re can write something up in py/rb
[08:43] <Joel_re> or perl
[08:43] <Joel_re> but not too good with awk
[08:44] <ed__> i always use it for little things
[08:44] <ed__> eg
[08:44] <ed__> converting a hab log into a kml
[08:44] <ed__> or whatever
[08:44] <ed__> or munging a log file (turning time into seconds since midnight say) to pipe into gnuplot
[08:44] <ed__> or things like that
[08:44] <ed__> it's the best glue
[08:45] <LeoBodnar> at some point I even used it to write all my stuff including physical simulations. Just have one massive BEGIN{..} and no text input
[08:45] <ed__> :)
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> ed__: so I need to look at re.search(pattern, string)?
[08:45] <ed__> i use python mostly for that kind of thing now
[08:45] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, yep
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> the pattern part is confusing
[08:45] <ed__> re = regular expressions. they're not language-specific, most languages have an implementation of them
[08:46] <ed__> yes, the pattern part is the regular expression
[08:46] <ed__> or regex
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> this is the file it's scanning for three words: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6316971
[08:46] <ed__> it's its own language, that is used for constructing patterns that you want to match
[08:46] <ed__> it looks a little scary at first, but it's super powerful
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> I have three words nestled in that file, how should I make the pattern for this to work?
[08:47] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13: you can use the py console
[08:47] <Joel_re> to test regex
[08:47] <ed__> and grep
[08:47] <Joel_re> or there is https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/Project1_GroundCode/blob/master/dltrigger.py
[08:47] <ed__> or grep
[08:47] <ed__> egrep*
[08:47] <Joel_re> heh
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'm in the console now, I'll experiment
[08:48] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, are all the words on one line?
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[08:48] <ed__> ok
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> well, should be
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[08:48] <ed__> so you can construct patterns that can do things like
[08:48] <ed__> [specific_word][dontcare][specificword][dontcare][specificword]
[08:49] <ed__> where the dontcare can be anything
[08:49] <ed__> i do commend grep to you though
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> right...
[08:50] <ed__> it's a linux command line tool
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[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> I've used it in linux but never in Python
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> never to search for a file
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> sorry a word
[08:51] <ed__> well, grep isn't in python, it's a program itself
[08:51] <ed__> but it uses regular expressions
[08:51] <Joel_re> ed__: I got him to login to the py console
[08:52] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13: you need to exit the console
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[08:52] <Joel_re> ctrl+D, then try what ed__ is suggesting
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to think of how to write the grep bit
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> I need to find these three words on one line somewhere in the file
[08:54] <Joel_re> ibanezmatt13: egrep '(w1|w2|w3)' file
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> got it, thanks
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> just saw this grep "text string to search directory-path
[08:55] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, do the words always appear in the same order in the line?
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> well, not necessarily
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> it would be better to check for them across multiple lines to be safe
[08:56] <ed__> i'm not really following what you're trying to do
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> so dl-fldigi will save all the data it decodes into a textfile
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> At a certain altitude, my payload will send a sentence
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> I need a program which is all the time reading the text file so that when it sees words of that sentence, it does something
[08:57] <ed__> this might help get you started
[08:57] <ed__> http://pastebin.com/m7n5up0q
[08:57] <ed__> save this as matt.txt
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[08:58] <ed__> http://pastebin.com/DEsYeMCH
[08:58] <ed__> so the second example only finds the lines that have all of the keywords (foo, bar and baz)
[08:58] <ed__> and ignores the ones that don't
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[08:59] <ed__> '.' means 'any chacater at all'
[08:59] <fz_> daveake: Sorry for the stupid question I'm going to ask but how does the carrier looks like on fldigi waterfall? 3 vertical lines?
[08:59] <ed__> '*' means 'match zero or more of the preceeding expression'
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go
[08:59] <ed__> so '.*' means 'a sequence of absolutely anything, i don't care'
[09:00] <ed__> so 'a.*b' means 'a, followed by anything i don't care, until you reach a b'
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> So how can I use the result of that to decide whether it contains it or not?
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[09:00] <ed__> well, grep only prints the lines that do contain it
[09:00] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> but I need it to automatically decide if it's in the file and then do something on its own
[09:00] <ed__> grep is basically designed to search through lines to see if they contain a pattern, and print the ones that do, or the ones that don't
[09:01] <ed__> yep, so in python you'll have to wrap your regular expression up in some logic that does exactly what it is you want (i'm not sure exactly what that is)
[09:01] <ed__> eg look over multiple lines in the file or something
[09:02] <ed__> so i'm not suggesting you solve your problem with grep
[09:02] <Bo_DK> anyone know where to get a HMC6352 chip these days? its a compas chip... ie shows in what direction you are... guess a magnometer is the name
[09:02] <ed__> i was just recommending it as a playground for quickly testing the regular expression patterns
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, thanks. I'll keep looking :)
[09:02] <ed__> n.b., not all dialects of regular expression are exactly the same
[09:02] <ed__> they're all mostly the same though
[09:03] <ed__> Bo_DK, i googled that for you
[09:03] <ed__> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/7915
[09:03] <Bo_DK> same result for me
[09:03] <Bo_DK> its a breakout thou
[09:04] <Bo_DK> need the bare chip
[09:05] <ed__> clue:
[09:05] <ed__> scroll to the bottom of that page
[09:05] <Bo_DK> ohh
[09:05] <tweetBot> @daveake: Updated blog post for tomorrow's flight #RaspberryPi #UKHAS http://t.co/qtMsZuJ1xM
[09:06] <Bo_DK> strange that its only sparkfun that has them
[09:06] <Bo_DK> i looked at RS components
[09:06] <Bo_DK> no luck
[09:07] <Bo_DK> brb
[09:07] <ed__> suspect it's not only sparkfun
[09:08] <ibanezmatt13> ed__: I really don't understand why this https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6317131 doesn't work with this https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6316971 :(
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> It keeps returning not yet, when the words are in the file
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[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> this is by far the worst program I've ever written
[09:12] <Bo_DK> it does not have to be that chip excatly.. any compas chip with i2C is ok.... ie SDA line out
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[09:17] <fz_> Does this look like a "carrier signal" ? http://cl.ly/image/3u1v2V0C0P41/signal.png
[09:18] <Darkside> from what
[09:18] <Darkside> its not very strong
[09:18] <daveake> Looks too weak, but why not turn the Tx off and see what happens?
[09:19] <Bo_DK> hehehe found it on digikey; http://www.digikey.dk/product-detail/en/HMC6352-TR/342-1041-1-ND/603153
[09:19] <fz_> Yeah I tried it, the yellow lines disappear.
[09:21] <fz_> Darkside: I'm just trying to connect the NTX2 to the RPI, from now just trying to see if I can get the carrier signal, the TX doesn't have any antenna attached, just a copper
[09:22] <fz_> Using the FT-790R as receiver with a diamond antenna
[09:22] <Darkside> you may b off-freqiency
[09:22] <Darkside> be off frequncy*
[09:24] <daveake> I suspect you are - signal should be much much stronger than that
[09:24] <fz_> It's my first time watching a "waterfall", how a stronger signal looks? A broader yellow column?
[09:25] <craag> Well it should be a very loud tone out of the 790s speaker if you don't have the audio lead plugged in
[09:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That's also a very wide seperation for DOMEX16 signal ? 2KHz?
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[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> The weather for tomorrow in Cambridge is looking exceptionally bad, but the predictions are ok
[09:34] <daveake> yup
[09:34] <ibanezmatt13> Will launching in heavy rain cause issues?
[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> So, will the balloon ice up or something and burst early?
[09:35] <daveake> Yes, you'll get wet
[09:35] <daveake> Not IME
[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> in my experience does that mean?
[09:35] <daveake> yes
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok, so we'll just bring a tent to keep the stuff in and some wellies
[09:36] <fsphil> I've launched in snow/rain, doesn't really bother it
[09:36] <fsphil> might fog up lenses though
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> Cool
[09:37] <Randomskk> definitely recommend wellies for elsworth in rain
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[09:38] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, i had a quick look at your code
[09:38] <jcoxon> morning eroomde
[09:38] <ed__> forgive me that i can't look at it properly, phone keeps ringing and you know, job
[09:38] <ed__> but
[09:38] <ed__> 1)
[09:39] <ed__> look at the gist of the text file
[09:39] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[09:39] <ed__> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6316971
[09:39] <ed__> line 200
[09:39] <ed__> copy and paste into here the trigger statement string from the beginning of that line
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[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> the reason I was looking for individual words was because, if I don't decode the sentence properly and the file contains something different to what I want
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> So it may not get the actual trigger but it may get one or two of the words
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> So I was going to do it that way to be safe
[09:40] <ed__> you're jumping ahead here
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah sorry :/
[09:41] <ed__> you didn't do what i said above :)
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that now
[09:41] <ed__> i'm just going to explain to you why your code wasn't working that you thought should work
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> thanks, I'll just have to load it up. One sec
[09:42] <ed__> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6317131
[09:42] <ed__> and the code was https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6317131
[09:42] <fz_> daveake: Should I see better reception even if the Tx doesn't have any kind of antenna attached?
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> ok ed__ got it
[09:43] <daveake> Yes the signal should much stronger even without an aerial
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> repeatedly printing not yet
[09:43] <ed__> so in the text file, your trigger string is
[09:43] <ed__> 'altitude 30km reached. I'm now in space!'
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[09:43] <ed__> that is what appears from line 200 onwards
[09:43] <ed__> ok
[09:43] <ed__> so now look at your variable 'the_trigger' in bob.py
[09:43] <daveake> Ignore the screen just listen to the sound. Make sure the 790 is in USB mode, set to the NTX2 frequency, then adjust the dial up and down till you hear a loud tone
[09:43] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[09:44] <ed__> copy and paste it into here
[09:44] <ibanezmatt13> done
[09:44] <ed__> no, i mean copy and paste it into irc
[09:44] <ibanezmatt13> the_trigger = "altitude 30km reached. I'm now in space!"
[09:44] <ed__> that's not what was in bob.py
[09:45] <jcoxon> not really in space though :-(
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> I thought the individual words would be ok if it failed searching for only the trigger
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> jcoxon: I know :)
[09:45] <ed__> i'm not sure what you mean
[09:45] <ed__> but
[09:46] <ed__> you were looking for
[09:46] <ed__> the_trigger = "altitude 30000m reached! I'm in space!"
[09:46] <daveake> I made this comment myself earlier jcoxon :)
[09:46] <ed__> in a text file that actually contained
[09:46] <ed__> "altitude 30km reached. I'm now in space!"
[09:46] <ed__> i.e. different strings
[09:46] <ed__> so that was never going to work
[09:46] <daveake> and both incorrect :p
[09:46] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, but if when I do it properly and dl-fldigi doesn't decode the sentence properly and misses out a few letters, I still need to try and find the individual words
[09:47] <daveake> Just search for "space", and change the comment to "nowhere near space" :p
[09:47] <ed__> yep ok
[09:47] <ed__> but solve that probelm when you get to it
[09:47] <ed__> so then the second problem is more subtle for new to python people
[09:47] <Randomskk> individual words can still be messed up, I'd try and find the actual altitude and verify the checksum, you'll get plenty of packets >30km
[09:47] <ed__> to do with global variables
[09:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> ibanezmatt13, have you considered using a "tail" utility like mTail ?
[09:47] <ed__> you're checking against a variable called 'initialised' which you put at the top
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> never heard of one Geoff-G8DHE-M :/
[09:48] <ed__> and inside a function you're checking against it with an if statement
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> ah,I've had this problem before. I need to make the variables global to the functions that use them?
[09:49] <Randomskk> that would be... one way...
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[09:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Used to read the Tail end of log files, and grep on a string, which triggers an action.
[09:49] <Randomskk> or you could refactor your code a bit so you don't need global variables
[09:49] <ed__> it's better to not use gloabl variables at all
[09:49] <ed__> they're a bit of a devil
[09:49] <ed__> and only cause problems
[09:49] <ed__> well that's not true, they often cause problems
[09:50] <ed__> but it's much much better to pass the variables to the function
[09:50] <Randomskk> or use a class >_>
[09:50] <ed__> or that
[09:50] <ibanezmatt13> I could just define them in the function seen as they're not used anyhere else maybe
[09:50] <Randomskk> but passing works
[09:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Just google "mtail" available for all OS's
[09:50] <Randomskk> they're used in your while loop at the bottom ibanezmatt13
[09:50] <Randomskk> well
[09:51] <Randomskk> they are but I don't know why
[09:51] <Randomskk> in fact your design is really weird
[09:51] <ed__> yeah
[09:51] <ed__> and also
[09:51] <Randomskk> you open the file and read through the whole file
[09:51] <ed__> PEP8
[09:51] <Randomskk> every loop
[09:51] <ed__> because i am just on an 11" LAPTOP
[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> holy moly this is hard :/
[09:51] <ed__> writing good software is
[09:51] <Randomskk> ed__: did you see they updated pep8? now 79 is a soft recommendation or something
[09:52] <ed__> didn't they generally make it a bit less abrasive in town?
[09:52] <ed__> but with the content more or less the same?
[09:52] <ed__> tone*
[09:52] <Randomskk> can't remember where I saw this now because the oficial pep8 can't be changed, let's see
[09:52] <ed__> hn maybe?
[09:52] <ibanezmatt13> One question: When dl-fldigi writes data to this text file, is it doing it all the time? I was wondering whether that would cause me any issuues
[09:52] <ed__> i obviously miss things since giving up hn
[09:52] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, yes
[09:52] <ed__> and yes
[09:52] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[09:53] <ibanezmatt13> how come?
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[09:53] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[09:53] <Randomskk> ed__: well I can't find it so I'm going to pretend I never saw it and continue with 79 char limits, the way guido intended it
[09:53] <ed__> well it might not cause you issues as you re-read the file constantly
[09:54] <ibanezmatt13> right
[09:54] <ed__> but yes it'll be writing new lines to the log file constantly
[09:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Provided you only open it for read access.
[09:54] <fz_> either my NTX2 or my receiver are brokers or I'm just too sleepy to figure out what is going on.
[09:54] <fz_> s/brokers/broken/
[09:54] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I've gotta go enrol at college. Thanks for the help, I'll see if I can sort it
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[09:55] <Randomskk> I'm not clear that the long if statement has the right operator precedence anyway
[09:55] <ed__> it hasn't
[09:55] <Randomskk> should really use brackets. but not around the _entire_ expression, that isn't pythonic at all
[09:55] <Randomskk> oh well
[09:55] <ed__> it wrapped it in brackets just to make it not splarg
[09:55] <Randomskk> ?
[09:55] <ed__> wrapped the sub-bits*
[09:55] <Randomskk> the outer brackets aren't doing anything
[09:56] <ed__> yes i know
[09:56] <Randomskk> not sure the inner ones are either
[09:56] <ed__> i mean, i deleted all the brackets then re-wrote them to make more sense 9to me)
[09:56] <Randomskk> oh right
[09:56] <Randomskk> but not on his gist?
[09:56] <fsphil> I caught myself leaving out the outer backets the other day, while writing C
[09:56] <ed__> no
[09:56] <ed__> i copied it locally
[09:56] <ed__> the gist is the original thing he put up
[09:56] <HixWork> ed__ do you know much about optical encoder resolutions?
[09:57] <ed__> nope
[09:57] <HixWork> drat
[09:57] <ed__> they go up to 4096 or something for good ones
[09:57] <Randomskk> yea, in and == are higher precedence than and, which is higher than or
[09:57] <ed__> i know that much
[09:57] <Randomskk> so his innermost brackets are pointless
[09:57] <Randomskk> but he doesn't technically need brackets around sub terms because and will bind first
[09:57] <Randomskk> but he should anyway
[09:57] <HixWork> 4096 what
[09:57] <fsphil> sometimes it just makes things clearer
[09:57] <Randomskk> in fact he shoudln't write the statement like that to begin with
[09:57] <Randomskk> that's never good python
[09:57] <ed__> that's the answer
[09:57] <ed__> it's difficult to follow
[09:58] <Randomskk> he already has his sentence
[09:59] <Randomskk> triggers = trigger.split(" "); and if any(word in line for word in trigger.split(" "))
[09:59] <ed__> i suggested just writing a proper checksum checker and parsing the string in a normal ukhas way
[09:59] <ed__> and looking for the altitude term
[09:59] <Randomskk> yea but he seems very keen to not do that
[09:59] <ed__> anything else is going to be super fragile given the potential noisiness
[09:59] <Randomskk> you're telling me
[09:59] <Randomskk> not least since he presumably only transmits that magic sentence for one packet?
[09:59] <Randomskk> well idk maybe he spams it
[09:59] <Randomskk> wish it didn't say "in space"
[10:00] <daveake> 3 of us had said that so far
[10:00] <daveake> have
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[10:01] <fsphil> someone's wrong on the internet?
[10:02] <daveake> So I heard
[10:02] <daveake> Can you fix it?
[10:02] <fsphil> no, but I can complain about it. and that's much better
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> What optical encoders, what size?
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> Have 10,000PPR = 40,000 decoded positions here
[10:05] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: 434 MHz balloons launch this weekend http://t.co/ZXGAHfH9Gn #hamradio #ukhas
[10:06] <x-f> somebody alerted the media
[10:06] <LeoBodnar> If higher resolution is needed use absolute ones = 2..4 million positions per turn
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> THat was for HixWork
[10:10] <HixWork> blimey thats about 0.5 arcsecs
[10:10] <ed__> x-f, southgatarc are machines
[10:16] <ed__> jcoxon, ping
[10:17] <x-f> don't scare me
[10:19] <HixWork> sorry LeoBodnar only saw the 11:06 comment - ideally smaller than 40mm dia
[10:21] <charolastra> did i miss STS-7 and what goes on on http://spacenear.us?
[10:21] <x-f> just a test, look at the time
[10:22] <charolastra> yes, it's from yesterday
[10:24] <x-f> charolastra, is that you on the map?
[10:24] <charolastra> no, must be a local ham
[10:24] <x-f> oh
[10:25] <x-f> there will be a VieHAB someday soon in Austria
[10:27] <charolastra> 7 days to go :)
[10:28] <x-f> ah, you already know, good :)
[10:28] <x-f> have you improved your antennae for it?
[10:29] <charolastra> just checked the site again but have read it before; but it seems like they will launch in slovakia because of retarded local aviation laws
[10:29] <x-f> :/
[10:36] <navrac_home> hi LeoBodnar - I hear you are looking at making your own foil balloons
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[10:38] <charolastra> concerning the antenna, could you recommend something to simply construct on my own
[10:39] <x-f> 1/4 wave ground plane is easy to make, a measure tape yagi is simple too
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[10:45] <charolastra> haha, poor measuring tape
[10:49] <x-f> reuse, recycle, reduce
[10:49] <HixWork> charolastra http://stratosvision.com/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> hi navrac_home yes, I am!
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> Are you making yours yourself?
[10:55] <charolastra> HixWork: thanks, that's to my liking; now to find some wood
[10:58] <x-f> i have a question for the HAB helpline - has anybody ever launched a Coke-like glass bottle? some company wants to send their new product to sp.. stratosphere and have pictures of it, and wants us to do it for them
[10:58] <x-f> we turned them down, because it's a glass bottle, but they keep asking
[10:58] <daveake> I agree with you - glass is a no-no
[10:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Can't they do a model plastic bottle ?
[10:59] <x-f> mhm
[10:59] <x-f> Geoff, that's what we suggested, but it's in some special form or something
[10:59] <x-f> shape*
[11:00] <charolastra> there was once a movie about african bushmen and a cola bottle ;)
[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ask them to get insurance ?
[11:00] <daveake> Ask whoever's idea it is if he could just stand still for a moment while you whack him over the head with the glasss bottle
[11:01] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[11:02] <fz_> Is there any deterministic way to test if a FT-790R is working properly?
[11:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Tune to a known signal, a repeater maybe in the area ?
[11:03] <x-f> daveake, ok, thanks :)
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[11:04] <daveake> x-f I got asked to fly a full-size wedding dress. I refused and they ended up making a model. Remember they need you more than vice-versa.
[11:05] <ed__> never fly a glass bottle
[11:05] <ed__> it's like 300g
[11:05] <daveake> If they really want it to happen they'll find a way - plastic model ot something
[11:05] <ed__> it's way too heavy for hab
[11:05] <daveake> lol
[11:06] <ed__> it's also hard
[11:06] <ed__> never fly anything hard
[11:06] <ed__> sorry i'm new here
[11:06] <ed__> that's just my opinion
[11:06] <x-f> it's cool, you just confirmed our doubts
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> I dunno.
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> You could probably do it safely.
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> A nice detonator in the middle to atomise it at altitude
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> More seriously.
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> A payload container to make it no more dangerous than any other 300g object
[11:08] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: do you know if the default gnuplot aspect ratio for eps has changed recently?
[11:09] <x-f> it has to be exposed to the outside "for the view"
[11:09] <Laurenceb> i have newer version of gnuplot and its going all landscapy
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I don't know
[11:09] <Laurenceb> google time
[11:10] <Bo_DK> Q: what is a platform called that allows to rotate a Yagi 360 degrees and 90 degrees up/down ?
[11:11] <Bo_DK> about to start thinkering with hardware side of my autonomus tracker platform
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> An antenna rotator
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> A 2 axis one
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Akso, depending on the design - you may want to be able to rotate it in the other axis too
[11:12] <Joel_re> how do you prevent the wires from tangling up
[11:12] <Laurenceb> ah nvm fixed it
[11:12] <Joel_re> I guess it shouldnt rotate 360
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Quite
[11:12] <Laurenceb> is B10 launching?
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Or slip rings
[11:13] <Bo_DK> Joel_re: the beagle bone black controlling it will have a programmed stop so it cant turn forever
[11:13] <Bo_DK> Joel_re: but almost 360...
[11:13] <Bo_DK> if it needs to go pass lets say 0 it will go back and continue from there
[11:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Laurenceb: LeoBodnar waiting for good wind to launch
[11:15] <Bo_DK> Joel_re: but a very valid point
[11:15] <Bo_DK> noted down.. cant have it just go on forever
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK: you can if youuse slip rings, or battery power the receiver
[11:17] <mattbrejza> put the BBB on the rotating bit?
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: There are other things than that - for example you can have a bluetooth, wifi, or ... interface to the BBB
[11:18] <Bo_DK> TO ALL: the whole thing will be no bigger than a BBB
[11:18] <Bo_DK> its shaped like a cape
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Not with a 433 yagi
[11:18] <Bo_DK> SpeedEvil: not the yagii of course
[11:19] <Bo_DK> but all electronics etc
[11:19] <Bo_DK> maybe the box to house it will be a bit bigger
[11:20] <Bo_DK> just barely done with the cape thing
[11:20] <Bo_DK> need it eyeballed etc
[11:20] <Bo_DK> just thought i could get some inspiration on the platform to move the yagi
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[11:21] <Bo_DK> if anybody are interested i can update things in dropbox
[11:22] <ed__> interest usually spikes once there's some proof-of-concept hardware to show
[11:22] <Bo_DK> hehe...
[11:22] <ed__> hardware talks
[11:23] <Bo_DK> yeah... but the platform will be a dead duck if the electronics are wrong
[11:23] <Bo_DK> and i'm going to have the board pro made in china... no breadboard here
[11:23] <Bo_DK> so was along the lines looking for help to catch obvious errors etc
[11:23] <Bo_DK> spec with layout of board
[11:23] <Bo_DK> no rush thou
[11:24] <ed__> ah right
[11:24] <ed__> well, whack it up
[11:24] <ed__> see what happens
[11:25] <Bo_DK> whack? ie just build board in blind and do trial and error?
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Bo_DK, You do realise you can buy standard Az/El rotaters for that sort of job ?
[11:25] <ed__> whack = put
[11:25] <Bo_DK> Geoff-G8DHE: are they as cheap as a homebuild platform with servos?
[11:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No of course not comapnies want to make a profit! On the otheerhand buying adequate servio's isn't cheap either! What size aerials ?
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[11:30] <Bo_DK> Geoff-G8DHE: about 13 element yagi.. home made too
[11:30] <Bo_DK> 25mm pcv tube as boom
[11:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Just the one aerial ?
[11:30] <Bo_DK> tig welding rod as elements
[11:30] <Bo_DK> Geoff-G8DHE: yes
[11:31] <craag> 13 element :O
[11:31] <Bo_DK> Geoff-G8DHE: it is a fully automatic tracker that you can just put up and leave
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[11:32] <craag> Not small then ...
[11:32] <Bo_DK> nope
[11:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> In that case you need reliability as well, what sort of weather conditions - wind speeds etc.
[11:32] <Bo_DK> it can rain if it wants to... electronics will be in waterproof case
[11:33] <Bo_DK> servos is a different matter
[11:33] <Bo_DK> need to thinker about those
[11:33] <Bo_DK> maybe something like this:
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002765 is that type of thing
[11:33] <Bo_DK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LS42j-4PfBg#t=39
[11:34] <Bo_DK> 729$.... NO way
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Thats a tiny aerial compared to a 13 ele 70cms aerial!
[11:34] <Bo_DK> its just the concept i'm after
[11:34] <craag> Yeah consumer 2-axis rotators are pricey
[11:34] <Bo_DK> platform needs to be sized up of course
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you want reliability in weather conditions, the video just ain't the job!!
[11:35] <craag> But for a 13-ele installed, you're going to need some hefty servos+brakes.
[11:35] <Bo_DK> Geoff-G8DHE: depends on what you build it with
[11:35] <Bo_DK> wood no go
[11:35] <Bo_DK> plastic better
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> also you won't be able to counter balance it as in the video
[11:35] <Bo_DK> maybe 3d printed
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> plastic useless in the UV about 6 months life
[11:36] <Bo_DK> Geoff-G8DHE: yes... will not mount excatly as him
[11:36] <Bo_DK> then i just 3d print new bits
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[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Have you ever mounted aerials externally before ? The weather is CRUEL!
[11:37] <Bo_DK> yep... on roofs... chimneys etc
[11:37] <Bo_DK> also done install while its rains and storms
[11:37] <Bo_DK> so yes i know what you mean
[11:38] <Bo_DK> anyways i will go and google for ideas and look at board to see if i can spot any errors
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> What strength of material can you get from plastic 3D printers these days? The only ones I've seen needed carbon fibre struts for the strength.
[11:39] <Bo_DK> not sure... i know one that will get a 3d printer from maplin
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Haha
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Well that's £700 pounds for the printer in the first place, so buy the rotaters its cheaper!
[11:45] <Bo_DK> ehhh.. i'm not going to buy the printer
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[11:45] <Bo_DK> just have parts printed on it for nearly free
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> £30 a Kilo of plastic that will fall apart after a couple of months sunshine, and you will need several kilos' to get anything like the strength needed!
[11:47] <Bo_DK> yep
[11:47] <Bo_DK> i know
[11:48] <Bo_DK> as i said just need to find a good concept.... then the matrials to build comes later
[11:48] Piet0r (~Piet0r___@53530237.cm-6-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[11:48] <Bo_DK> but if you are drowning in money just send me a rotator
[11:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I bought mine 20 years ago, the rotaters are still working fine - just trouble with the cables feeding them after UV exposure cracked the ties eventually!
[11:51] <HixWork> Bo_DK I'd recomment Hammond enclosures. If you are looking at a production run of >25 units they will machine them to your spec very cheaply. I have a friend who did this and the custom cases were cheaper than standard ones from Farnell....
[11:51] <HixWork> You can get IP5/6X rated ones too
[11:53] <Bo_DK> HixWork: :-D noy bad
[11:53] <Bo_DK> can i assume they do them with clear lid etc?
[11:56] Action: jcoxon has got openwrt running on his oldschool BT homehub v1.0
[12:00] <HixWork> Bo_DK http://www.hammondmfg.com/scpg.htm
[12:00] <Bo_DK> thanks...
[12:00] <Bo_DK> looking
[12:02] <Bo_DK> not bad...
[12:03] <HixWork> they are widely used
[12:04] <navrac_home> sorry LeoBodnar - went AFK
[12:05] guest_____ (4d599854@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.89.152.84) joined #highaltitude.
[12:05] <Bo_DK> yep.. just forgot them
[12:05] <guest_____> cannot make ntx2 pi talk serial halp
[12:05] <Bo_DK> also been so much working on the eletronics side that i hardly had time free with family etc
[12:05] <guest_____> any body???!
[12:06] <mfa298> guest_____: we need a bit more information than that.
[12:06] <mfa298> what have you done so far
[12:06] <mfa298> how doesn't it work
[12:07] <craag> hahahaha http://t.co/5WmE17Ys4p
[12:07] <guest_____> put ntx2 to electrical and plug into pi
[12:07] <guest_____> but now none turn on
[12:08] <craag> nice to know my 0 quid rsgb membership fee is being spent on useful services.
[12:08] <mfa298> guest_____: what connections have you made between the pi and ntx2
[12:09] <guest_____> pi to electrical and to ntx2
[12:09] <mfa298> likely faults are either it's not connected properly or your PSU isn't good enough for pi and ntx2
[12:09] <guest_____> the electrical made the ntx2 legs bang
[12:09] <guest_____> is it broken?
[12:09] <daveake> "bang"?
[12:09] <mfa298> if it went bang and smoke came out then one of more parts are probably broken
[12:09] <guest_____> the webpage says ntx2 3.3v
[12:09] <guest_____> is this same as 120V?
[12:09] <mfa298> NO
[12:10] <Bo_DK> SHIT
[12:10] <guest_____> would the 120 make the ntx2 legs bang?
[12:10] <Bo_DK> it kills it
[12:10] <mfa298> if you connected it direct to the mains then that will have broken things - and it also *very* dangerous
[12:10] <daveake> I hope this is a wind-up
[12:10] <Bo_DK> the BANG is a chip or something that is blown to bits
[12:11] <daveake> Otherwise step away from the electrical equipment and take up knitting or something (but only with blunt needles)
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[12:11] Action: mfa298 looks at the IP address of guest_____ and realises it's somewhat familiar
[12:12] <daveake> lol
[12:12] <daveake> Relief
[12:12] <daveake> Was just checking myself :)
[12:12] <mfa298> not the person I'd have expected to be trolling
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[12:16] <guest_____> yes sorry
[12:16] <guest_____> :)
[12:16] <guest_____> it's a telecon
[12:17] <guest_____> and it's been a while since we had one like that
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[12:17] <daveake> guest_____ Is it OK to connect my Pi tracker together using ScotchLoks?
[12:17] <daveake> damn
[12:18] <ed__> too slow
[12:18] <daveake> :)
[12:19] <ed__> telecon is interminable
[12:19] <ed__> slowly scrolling through a document in one window
[12:20] <ed__> irc in the other
[12:21] <tweetBot> @daveake: #RaspberryPi #UKHAS The Register write-up for tomorrow's Bionic Babbage flight http://t.co/EO21LAA8ZA
[12:24] <HixWork> why are you 3 today ed__
[12:24] <ed__> 3?
[12:24] <HixWork> sorry, guest_____
[12:24] <ed__> oh yes
[12:24] <ed__> well, eroomde is on the main pc in the office
[12:24] <HixWork> how comes you are you you and him
[12:25] <ed__> this is a random laptop
[12:25] <HixWork> ahh
[12:25] <ed__> guest was me killing ten minutes unhelpfully
[12:25] <HixWork> i learnt a lot.
[12:25] <HixWork> apart from you not stating 120V AC or DC
[12:26] <ed__> i suspect it would be equally unhappy either way
[12:27] <HixWork> really?
[12:27] <HixWork> sorry, I'll stop there
[12:27] <daveake> I suspect most of the components wouldn't get as far as seeing the voltage invert
[12:28] <HixWork> I was reading the Babs Arko exchange from yesterday afternoon - I really think the british placenames out loud could be a scream after a few beers
[12:29] <mattbrejza> america has silly names too though
[12:29] <mattbrejza> like arkansas
[12:29] <mattbrejza> or yosemite
[12:29] <HixWork> At work I have nothing to do, so am designing a Faro arm type CMM. I suspect I will need to be reading up on quarternions if it is to work
[12:29] <HixWork> Jellystone mattbrejza
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[12:35] <staylo> nice place for a pic-a-nic
[12:36] <HixWork> good thiking boo-boo
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[12:41] <Piet0r> I see B-10 on spacenear.us
[12:41] <Piet0r> Does anyone know when it will be launched?
[12:43] <HixWork> LeoBodnar is you man for B-10 Piet0r
[12:43] <Piet0r> I know
[12:43] <HixWork> oh, ok
[12:43] <Piet0r> Nothing on his site about B-10
[12:43] <Piet0r> Or B-9 for that matter
[12:44] <craag> He was asking about frequencies for tomorrow
[12:44] <craag> So my guess would be tonight.
[12:45] <ed__> is it going to be the usual 24 minutes' heads up?
[12:46] <craag> Well that's what he aims for I think, but subject to ISH :P
[12:47] <craag> out of the blue: "There's not many trackers, is there a problem with the signal??"
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[12:48] <ed__> assembling a mini server
[12:48] <ed__> this is better than pretending to be someone to rile up the regulars
[12:48] <tweetBot> @daveake: #RaspberryPi #UKHAS RPi article re tomorrow's Babbage flight http://t.co/3MUgX0aDR0
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[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: I've just got back from college. I've selected my options: Maths, Physics, Computing and... further maths
[13:42] <chrisstubbs> Good choices
[13:42] <mattbrejza> familiar sounding conbination
[13:42] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: good choices
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> well, good choices we think. Might not be saying that a year from now :/
[13:42] <Randomskk> good stuff
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[13:43] <chrisstubbs> You should now find A level computing fairly easy
[13:43] <Randomskk> I'm sure you will eventually not regret further maths
[13:43] <mattbrejza> with the intention to do engineering at uni?
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> yeah mattbrejza something like that
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> Hope so chrisstubbs
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> I think the computing course is the least of my worries, understandably :)
[13:44] <mfa298> if the intention is to do something sciency/engineering at Uni you won't regret the choice at uni (even if you do part way through the A Level)
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that's the idea. The more I learn now, the easier is "should" be when I get to Uni, even if I don't do spectacularly well
[13:44] <chrisstubbs> Computing will be a walk in the park compared to maths haha
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: My Uncle (a VB programmer by day) is coming down tonight to help me with that horendous code we were working on last night. He says he can sort it out for me. (He deals with URLs all day) poor guy :)
[13:45] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
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[13:45] <Randomskk> horrendous? :P
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> well, insanely frustrating because it's supposed to be easy kind of horrendous :)
[13:46] <Randomskk> heh
[13:46] <Randomskk> visual basic huh
[13:46] <Randomskk> talking of code I should probably get working
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:47] <mattbrejza> vb6? vba? vb.net?
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> vb.net
[13:47] <mattbrejza> quite a difference between them
[13:47] <mattbrejza> the least worst then
[13:47] <chrisstubbs> Right its pancake time for me then put the finishing touches to cheapo, brb
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> enjoy chrisstubbs
[13:47] <mattbrejza> should really use c# instead of vb.net, its basically the same but without silly vb-ness
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> I've not got much experience with c# but I know its like C with all the vb libraries
[13:49] <mattbrejza> its not really like c
[13:49] <mattbrejza> its nearer java
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> ah, not really looked at it
[13:50] <PB0NER> I would use Python! platform independant
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> All I need to do is have a program that scans dl-fldigi for a certain message coming from the payload
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> But it's got to be very realiable. So it has to check for certain words coming through dl-fldigi in case it misses a few letters
[13:51] <PB0NER> oh, for test purposes
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> The idea is to post a tweet when my payload sends the message "we've hit 30km" or something like that
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> So I need to searchfor say the word hit, the word we've etc...
[13:52] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: searching for certain words isn't going to make it very reliable
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> If it finds one or the other, I can go post my tweet
[13:52] <Randomskk> the most reliable option is definitely habitat
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Which OS does it have to run under
[13:52] <Randomskk> failing that you should really try to parse the sentence, look at the altitude, verify the checksum
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I specifically "need" to do it without habitat
[13:52] <Randomskk> does your payload transmit the "30km altitude reached" string for every single sentence after 30km, or only once?
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> and it "must" be triggered as a result of a normal sentence such as I'm typing now
[13:53] <Randomskk> I see
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> well, the idea is for it to transmit 10 times then stop
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> even that's proving difficult
[13:53] <Randomskk> well those are somewhat odd and arbitrary requirements but ok
[13:53] <Randomskk> I would have it transmit it for so long as it remains above 30km
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> odd I know, but I simply need to :/
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> ibanezmatt13, Which OS does it need to run under Matt
[13:53] <Randomskk> but of course you will get fewer tracking points that way
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> Geoff-G8DHE-M: Windows preferably
[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> exactly Randomskk. I just want it to run 10 times
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> In that case just use mTAIL http://ophilipp.free.fr/op_tail.htm
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> I had a while loop with an incrementing counter
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> didn't work
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> what does it do exactly Geoff-G8DHE-M
[13:54] <PB0NER> I found this a while ago.. not sure what it does exactly : https://github.com/muonzoo/ham-utils/blob/master/fldigi-aether-logger.py
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> this all has to run in a script
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It reads a nominated (or several) files, watching the end of the file for text that is compared to a strings you give it, once matched it triggers other programs to run or just gives you an alert
[13:55] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the whole method of having dl-fldigi (especially if it's the copy in your chase car) trying to send the tweet seems unreliable (even if your code is fairly bullet proof)
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> I'm aware of that mfa298, it's just something I've been told to do
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> Basically what I would do with habitat but without
[13:57] <mfa298> I think I'd give the chance of habitat failing <1%, chance of your 3g internet failing when you need it for the tweet >20% (probably much greater)
[13:57] <ibanezmatt13> The idea is for the payload itself to trigger something, not the server]
[13:57] <Randomskk> uhm
[13:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Why not leave it running on a machine at home not in the car
[13:57] <Randomskk> your desktop is triggering something
[13:57] <Randomskk> or laptop
[13:58] <Randomskk> whether you use habitat or dl-fldigi you're still relying on other code that's interpreting the same stuff coming from the payload
[13:58] <ibanezmatt13> I know, but it's triggering as a result of a message coming directly from the payload
[13:58] <Randomskk> well obviously up to you
[13:58] <Randomskk> I would definitely look in to different ways of doing it on the desktop than trying to match words from the sentence
[13:58] <Randomskk> but you could make it work, sure.
[13:59] <HixWork> mattbrejza have you got any good resources for VBA or VB6? I'm currently learning to script stuff in Catia.
[13:59] <Randomskk> why do you have to transmit a human readable sentence like "I've reached 30km altitude"?
[13:59] <Randomskk> vs just reading the altitude it's already sending?
[13:59] <daveake> indeed
[13:59] <Randomskk> I guess ifyou want to say it's "triggering" something in some way different to normal operations
[13:59] <Randomskk> okay
[13:59] <daveake> this al seems a rather strange way of doing it
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> I can't really provide much detail
[14:00] <Randomskk> then I would transmit something like "ALTITUDE REACHED ALTITUDE REACHED ALTITUDE REACHED ALTITUDE REACHED" over and over
[14:00] <Randomskk> for a couple minutes
[14:00] <Randomskk> not a full long sentence that you try to find specific words in
[14:00] <PB0NER> hmm fl-digi can log everything decoded to a file.... http://berkscountynbems.homestead.com/FLDIGI_Config.pdf (page 6)
[14:00] <mfa298> I should have also added chance of you not getting the "trigger" sentence >x% (where x depends on how good your mobile tracking ability is)
[14:00] <Randomskk> so long as it doesn't release pots of paint at 30km
[14:00] <daveake> And, tak it from me, you don't want to be messing with tracker code the day before launch :p
[14:00] <daveake> lol
[14:00] <Randomskk> morning before launch is fine though right daveake
[14:01] <Randomskk> I think I've only ever written tracker code the day or morning before
[14:01] <daveake> yup
[14:01] <daveake> perfectly fine
[14:01] <Randomskk> good good
[14:01] <daveake> I did all the 3G/batc stuff on one flight the day before, and amazingly that did actually work
[14:02] <PB0NER> ibanezmatt13 and you can use any tool to read textout.txt ....
[14:02] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, it's all confusing me a bit
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[14:03] <PB0NER> fairly easy to test if that works...
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[15:29] <Steve_2E0VET> ping upu
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[15:43] <Babs__> ping arko
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[15:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> LeoBodnar, Are you planning on fly in the next few hours ?
[15:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> even *flying
[15:46] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE-M: looks like tomorrow I think
[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah right!
[15:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> wil it be a night floater or something different ?
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Bits and bobs :)
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Solar panel thingy
[15:49] <ed__> with charging or just preferentially using the panel if there's enough light?
[15:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK I'll wait and see ;-) sounds good on the PV
[15:50] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, that makes 9 ;)
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[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> NORB has passed its series of rigorous performance tests with flying colours :)
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> Even the HAB Tweeter works a treat
[15:53] <Willdude123> Is it weird that I'm going to see my grandparents and without thinking I automatically put a Hiren's boot CD in my bag, because they'll probably have some form of computer problem?
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[15:53] <chrisstubbs> Sounds about normal
[15:53] <chrisstubbs> for a family outing
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> My granddad cut the plug of the end of the power wire for his PC when he thought the internet was coming through the mains after a van pulled up outside; he thought they were spying on him
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> I swear, true story
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> I think I've told you before :)
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, any final payload pics?
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> I would not check his history.
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> oh, haha yes one sec
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> you'll like this one
[15:54] <Babs__> my internet comes through the mains
[15:55] <Willdude123> Heh
[15:55] <Babs__> well, after its come into my house anyway
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8z6rsef7prcxkg/Photo%2018-08-2013%2012%2059%2015.jpg
[15:55] <Willdude123> Powerline networking
[15:55] <Babs__> perhaps he was just ahead of his time
[15:55] <Willdude123> Cutting mains cables could be really dangerous.
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> Now that's what you call serious payload testing :P
[15:55] <chrisstubbs> Haha
[15:55] <Babs__> eroomde, i have some machinery video that you will be well into
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE-M: chrisstubbs http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1465.jpg
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir said he'd track my balloon from a tall hill. So what the heck
[15:56] <chrisstubbs> Oh wow thats neat!
[15:56] <chrisstubbs> Will get a pic of mine for tomorrow
[15:56] <Willdude123> Electricity is quite dangerous sometimes. My great granddad died in a fire after sparking a battery terminal on his van, with the metal rim of a paintbrush..
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> I don't do pictures but in fact, that's not a bad picture of me at all :)
[15:56] <Willdude123> Heh
[15:57] <Babs__> that is awesome Leobodnar - beauty in design
[15:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh nice idea - saw an interesting layout recently cylinder of pv cells above a shallow dish reflector, light horizontal lights direct light above dish is reflected up onto cylinder
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> LeoBodnar bows
[15:57] <Upu> thats the coolest payload I've seen in a long time :)
[15:57] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, yes it is bad.
[15:58] <Randomskk> LeoBodnar: oh loevly
[15:58] <Randomskk> lovely*
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> -_-
[15:58] <Babs__> unless you have Gulliver-n-Lilliput esque MASSIVE hands in which case its not that impressive
[15:58] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: yours also looks cool ;)
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> haha, thanks Randomskk
[15:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> shades of ISS
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, it does look remarkably similar to the ISS :)
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> well
[15:59] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, anything from amazon today?
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> ed__: I thought you weren't ed moore
[15:59] <Randomskk> LeoBodnar: does the pcb get a case?
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> wait
[15:59] <LeoBodnar> lol let's see if it flies
[15:59] <Willdude123> ed__, eroomde
[15:59] <ed__> i am
[15:59] <Willdude123> Same thing
[15:59] <ed__> i was just bei ng silly
[15:59] <ed__> it's still just me
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> :O
[16:00] <ibanezmatt13> Damn, I should have known :)
[16:00] <ed__> on a different computer which just saw my unix username and affixed enough '____'s after it until freenode let me in
[16:00] <Willdude123> eroomdes, eroomed, will eroomde
[16:00] <chrisstubbs> Inside: http://bit.ly/1d9j6g9 http://bit.ly/1d9j7kn Outside: http://bit.ly/1d9jb3x
[16:00] <ibanezmatt13> Yes ed__, I'm really getting into it. The way it tries to prove the theorems is absolutely fantastic. Really interesting
[16:00] <ed__> eroomamus
[16:00] <ed__> ferro
[16:00] <ed__> latum
[16:00] <ed__> i like the idea of being an irregular verb
[16:00] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, awesome
[16:00] <Willdude123> Right nobody got that cause nobody's played Bioshock Infinite in here.
[16:00] <Babs__> 209
[16:01] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, what book is that?
[16:01] <ed__> 1089
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> 1089 and all that Willdude123
[16:01] <Willdude123> Ah I've got that
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> it's really quite enjoyable to read
[16:01] Action: Willdude123 packs it in bag for going up north.
[16:01] <Willdude123> I don't get the topology bit
[16:02] <ed__> very trimphant balloon ibanezmatt13
[16:02] <ed__> but you'll find it's easier to get altitude with a proper weather balloon
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> which picture are you refering to?
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[16:03] <Willdude123> p16
[16:03] <Willdude123> I get the theory, but a 3d model of the steps would be easier to understand
[16:04] <number10_> some rain tomorrow norning ibanezmatt13, what time are you launching?
[16:04] <number10_> m*
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[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> I've heard. We made a special trip to my Grandma's to collect 5 umbrella's. 12:00 is the plan
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> and wellies of course
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[16:06] <number10_> you must be flight controller for the day as yours was the first announced
[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> what does that role involve?
[16:07] <number10_> what ever you want to ensure that your flight has enough listeners I would say
[16:07] <ed__> not launching
[16:07] <ed__> and thus holding everyone else up
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> :P
[16:07] <number10_> lol
[16:07] <number10_> just keep those old boys with excessive number of transmitters under control
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[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give everyone a virtual chocolate if they track mine and don't neglect it :)
[16:08] <number10_> w
[16:08] Action: ibanezmatt13 ponders the possibility of such a treat]
[16:08] <number10_> well thats cool .. I am on yours then
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[16:09] <Upu> ping Steve_2E0VET
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> Would it not make sense for trackers to alternate what they track on so everything gets a fair share?
[16:09] <number10_> it usually works well
[16:10] <number10_> on the day
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> Ie, draw up a rota where people can confirm if they are gonna be tracking. Then simply divide the number of flights by trackers, and make sure they switch every so often so they don't get bored. BOOM! Habitat needs modifying :)
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[16:10] <Randomskk> people tend to sort themselves out pretty well
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, best way
[16:10] <number10_> well it depends on how well you are receiving the signal
[16:10] <chrisstubbs> I depends who is closest to what
[16:10]|/a> lt:chrisstubbs> ^ exactly
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> should be ok
[16:12] <bertrik> last time, I tried to get one from each balloon, so if a balloon has multiple payloads, track only the one with the best signal, and use the other channel from sdrconsole for another balloon
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> good idea
[16:16] <daveake> I have a better scheme. Just everyone follow mine.
[16:17] <daveake> It has its flaws I realise
[16:17] <fsphil> yes, pretty pictures. shiney
[16:18] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: Launch tomorrow is on though may be a little later than planned due to predictions #ukhas
[16:18] <daveake> and rain
[16:18] <fsphil> does this new bot filter out RTs?
[16:18] <mfa298> bertrik: with sdr-radio/sdrconsole you can have up to 2 vfos (it's in the settings) so as long as your device has enough bandwidth to see them all you can track more
[16:18] <Upu> yes
[16:18] <Upu> not RT's where you edit them
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[16:20] <bertrik> mfa298: but can you get more than two if you have only two vfos?
[16:20] <ed__> 'this injector has an exit velocity over four times faster than those of the Space Shuttle Main Engines - a big improvement'
[16:20] <ed__> um.... you're using gaseos propellents
[16:20] <ed__> that's sort of not surprising
[16:20] <ed__> lucky this paper didn't have me as its reviewer
[16:21] <mfa298> bertrik: sorry that should have been you can have up to 6 vfos
[16:21] <mfa298> so 6 payloads :D
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[16:31] <number10_> are you offering virtual bacon butties for listeners daveake?
[16:39] <daveake> Yes, Upu will stream them for you
[16:41] <Randomskk> you get to watch him eat them
[16:41] <Babs__> arf
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[16:45] <Babs__> this injector that i saw today has an exit velocity many times slower than those of the Space Shuttle Main Engines
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[16:46] <Babs__> http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/9578634652/
[16:46] <Willdude123> gl with tomorrows' launch daveake and Upu
[16:46] <Babs__> however, as the Space Shuttle Main Engines were not using jam based propellants it can also be considered impressive
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[16:47] <fsphil> but tastier
[16:47] <daveake> space jam
[16:48] <fsphil> There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry: Lone Star!
[16:48] <Willdude123> daveake, be sure to tell Felix Baumgartner about your launch! There's a slight possibility he might be interested.
[16:48] <fsphil> love that movie
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[16:49] <Willdude123> Oh yeah he ignored me
[16:49] <Willdude123> fsphil, never seen it. I went to a bar/resta
[16:49] <Willdude123> urant
[16:49] <Willdude123> Called lone star
[16:49] <Willdude123> It was great.
[16:49] <fsphil> Spaceballs .. check it out sometime
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[16:52] <Willdude123> Ooh interesting https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11712
[16:52] <Upu> thx Will
[16:52] <Upu> ping chrisstubbs
[16:53] <mattbrejza> what a stupid name
[16:53] <Willdude123> Du rien Upu
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[16:55] <fsphil> thought for a moment there someone has made an i686-based arduino
[16:56] <Willdude123> It's a bit meh
[16:56] <Willdude123> It might be a decent tracker, since the BBB is kinda overkill.
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[16:57] <Willdude123> Is it weird that I've come to like the USB noise that gets played through my headphones?
[16:58] <mfa298> if the BBB is kinda overkill then that probably is as well (seeing as it looks like the same chip)
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[16:59] <tweetBot> @_egamonal: @alvaromartinez Demà llencen en Ted Babbage des de 39km amb una #raspberryPi #UKHAS http://t.co/3nJ4QOoYtJ
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[17:02] <Babs__> All launch announcements need to be in Spanish from this point on
[17:03] <Willdude123> Yesh
[17:04] <Babs__> I said Spanish Willdude123, not with a lisp
[17:04] <Willdude123> Right see you people probably tomorrow (going up north)
[17:05] <Willdude123> Shi, Sí estoy de acuerdo
[17:07] <fsphil> you brave soul
[17:07] <Willdude123> I had no choice.
[17:07] <Willdude123> I don't really mind tbh.
[17:08] <Willdude123> The grammar (or lack thereof) can be a bit annoying though.
[17:09] <Willdude123> fsphil, I packed a CD with Hiren's boot CD image on it. I know there will be some kind of computer problem
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[17:10] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza_
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[17:11] <fsphil> there always is
[17:13] <Willdude123> Yeah. Looking forward to seeing my grandparents though, even if I do have to fix their PC.
[17:13] Action: mfa298 has hopefully cut down on computer problems here by replacing the belkin router with a netgear one.
[17:13] <chrisstubbs> "ALL YOUR FREQUENCIES ARE BELONG TO US" haha
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[17:14] <mfa298> if you get asked to do wifi in an older house run away (some walls here are over a foot thick)
[17:14] <ed__> we had a problem in my parent's house
[17:15] <Willdude123> I remember we had an old linksys WAP.
[17:15] <ed__> one of the internal walls was a very chick fireplace and old bread oven and so on
[17:15] <ed__> feet thick
[17:15] <Willdude123> We got a dodgy firmware uoograde.
[17:15] <Willdude123> (above allowed power)
[17:15] <chrisstubbs> copious AP's tend to do the trick
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[17:17] <ed__> i just put it upstairs
[17:17] <ed__> went through the floors fine
[17:18] Nick change: mattbrejza_ -> mattbrejza
[17:18] <mfa298> this one is in an upstairs sitting room, it's down through the floor to one pc, along the landing to another and up through the floor to an upstairs bedroom for the main users.
[17:18] <Willdude123_> Hmm will bringing my netbook in the car make the home office stop me for 9 hours for questioning because I have a USB stick and a netbook?
[17:18] <mfa298> not such good access in the front room (through one of these huge walls)
[17:19] <ed__> no will
[17:19] <ed__> because you are 13
[17:19] <ed__> and not dating a high profile journalist (to my knowledge)
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[17:21] <Babs__> I love how the Grauniad pushed so massively for state controlled media and now they are like.....erm....is this allowed?
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[18:05] <Steve_2E0VET> ping upu
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[18:19] <JDat> hello!
[18:19] <JDat> I have problems with web tracker
[18:19] crash_18974 (~crash_@2605:8900:1000:1001:8:0:e:2) joined #highaltitude.
[18:20] <JDat> please confirm that tracker is working and problms are with my web browser
[18:20] <JDat> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[18:20] <daveake> looks fine to me
[18:21] <chrisstubbs> JDat, what browser are you using?
[18:21] <JDat> chrome on windows
[18:21] <chrisstubbs> Ah not IE,that sould be okay then
[18:21] <daveake> same. should be fine. What's up with it?
[18:22] <chrisstubbs> Looks like it has been cleared
[18:22] <daveake> yes it has, in advance of tomorrow's many flights
[18:23] <JDat> screenshot: http://files.fm/u/itdbgtg
[18:23] <chrisstubbs> Can we change the page title to balloon fiesta take 2?
[18:24] <chrisstubbs> JDat, can you reach https://maps.google.co.uk/ ?
[18:24] <JDat> yesm no problems with google maps
[18:24] <JDat> from https://maps.google.co.uk/
[18:25] <JDat> I will try another browser
[18:25] <JDat> IE or FF
[18:25] <chrisstubbs> FF
[18:26] <JDat> dohh
[18:26] <JDat> IE is showimg map...
[18:27] <JDat> and stations
[18:27] <JDat> thank you
[18:27] <JDat> i will chet my chrome problems
[18:27] <JDat> chek*
[18:27] <JDat> check*
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> Oh man we are due for rain all day tomorrow
[18:29] <JDat> Tomorrow I will make some ground tests with 1.2 GHz video downlink
[18:30] <JDat> I hope that I can receive video with old analog SAT receiver
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[18:35] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[18:40] <chrisstubbs> I picked up an SWR meter from the boot sale last week, just checked the frequencies and it only goes up to 150MHz :(
[18:40] <chrisstubbs> CB radio junk
[18:41] <Hiena> chrisstubbs: How much power want you measure?
[18:43] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, pmsl
[18:43] <chrisstubbs> I just thought it would be handy for messing about with hab/radio stuff
[18:43] <chrisstubbs> I have quite a nice digital power meter stting on my desk at work, just need to sort out the scrap ticket to take it home
[18:46] <mfa298> most swr/power meters will need a reasonable amount of power to get a reading a few watts at least
[18:46] <Hiena> Well, for a few Watt, you could make a toroid coupler one. If you choose a low permeability core (yellow dot), and fast schotkey diodes, you could built up to 1GHz.
[18:46] <mfa298> CB ones are probably designed for ~4W
[18:46] <Hiena> mfa298: Yup.
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello chrisstubbs
[18:48] <Hiena> If i remembers correctly the Analod Devices has a SPI SWR/Power meter IC, which could handle the power up to 1W and 1GHz.
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> I got a general question about london
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> any idea how to get a hotel room?
[18:49] <arko> use the internet or call one?
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> not for me, for a friend who just was told that the travel agent went bust
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> AD608 ?
[18:51] <Hiena> LeoBodnar: It's a mixer, but it has log. amp and power indicator.
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, travelodge, premier inn, ibis
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[18:53] <chrisstubbs> to name a couple
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> thing is that she has to get her money back
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[18:55] <Hiena> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD8302.pdf <= I remember that one and a standard direction coupler, but it had analog out.
[18:55] <Hiena> Damn my memory...
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[18:58] <Hiena> Yes. Page 20 and Figure 13. It was a same circuit with a PCD couplers.
[19:01] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: not coming to london for the conference then?
[19:02] <Steve_2E0VET> my sketch seems to run out of memory and hang, any simple way of finding out why
[19:02] <mattbrejza> well at a guess its running out of memory :P
[19:02] <fsphil> lol
[19:02] <fsphil> arduino should report your memory usage when compiling
[19:02] <Steve_2E0VET> good guess
[19:03] <Steve_2E0VET> the sketch is 25k, but it runs out while running i guess
[19:03] <mattbrejza> RAM?
[19:03] <fsphil> does it tell you how much sram you're using?
[19:03] <Steve_2E0VET> no
[19:03] <fsphil> hmm.. I though it did
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, will have to see
[19:04] <Steve_2E0VET> not that i know of
[19:04] <fsphil> you should have Program and Data size
[19:04] <Chetic> <JDat> i will chet my chrome problems
[19:04] <Chetic> lol ^
[19:04] <Steve_2E0VET> does strncat use a lot of memory?
[19:04] <fsphil> it doesn't use any
[19:05] <fsphil> you run it against strings you've already allocated memory for
[19:05] <mfa298> context might help,
[19:05] <mfa298> what sort of memory ?
[19:06] <fsphil> you'd run into problems if you are appending more data to a string than you've allocated
[19:06] <fsphil> though with strncat() you tell it what your limit is
[19:06] <fsphil> not sure if it adds a \0 at the end if it hits the limit
[19:07] <mattbrejza> btw fsphil when you get a RAM usage report does it take into account all the statically declared memory in subroutines?
[19:07] Action: mfa298 should have read scrollback (I was assuming memory might==flash in which case it does use flash, but looks like this is sram)
[19:07] <fsphil> ah strncat() always writes the \0
[19:08] <fsphil> mattbrejza: I believe so
[19:08] <fsphil> but don't know for sure
[19:08] <mattbrejza> lets see what google says
[19:08] Action: fsphil tests
[19:08] <mattbrejza> whats hte command again to give the report?
[19:09] <fsphil> yes
[19:09] <fsphil> avr-size
[19:10] <fsphil> avr-size -C --mcu=?? file.out
[19:10] <mattbrejza> although how does the compiler know ram usage at compile time
[19:10] <fsphil> I just added a static int to a function and Data went up two bytes
[19:10] <mattbrejza> as an ISR could call stuff
[19:10] <mattbrejza> i probably misused the term 'static'
[19:10] <fsphil> possibly
[19:11] <daveake> It won't have a clue about stack-based variables
[19:11] <mattbrejza> a normal variable initialiation for int c = 0;
[19:11] <mattbrejza> is stack?
[19:11] <daveake> when you call a function, local vars in that function go on the stack, as does the address of the code that called it (so it can return later)
[19:11] <mattbrejza> and so the int c[1000] at the top of main() wont get counted either...
[19:12] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: that should be counted
[19:12] <Randomskk> you can't have dynamic memory allocation
[19:12] <Randomskk> this is C
[19:12] <daveake> Yeah that one's easy
[19:12] <Randomskk> and you don't have a memory manager
[19:12] <Randomskk> so unless you implement alloc() the counting should be exact
[19:12] <fsphil> what if a function called itself?
[19:13] <mattbrejza> will that be counted if its in a subroutine other than mail?
[19:13] <mattbrejza> main?
[19:13] <Randomskk> it counts all memory allocation
[19:13] <Randomskk> so yes
[19:13] <Randomskk> what function it is in is irrelevant
[19:13] <Randomskk> fsphil: hmmm.
[19:13] <mattbrejza> but an ISR could call a function twice?
[19:13] <Randomskk> stack overflow could happen I guess?
[19:13] <daveake> AFAIK compilers don't try to figure out what calls what
[19:13] <daveake> That needs a different sort of beast
[19:13] <Randomskk> no tail call optimisation in C
[19:14] <daveake> So yes you could have A call itself, or A call B call A, and each call will use more of the stack, and the compiler isn't going to check that
[19:15] <Randomskk> lol
[19:15] <Randomskk> that would be highly entertaining
[19:15] <mattbrejza> cant help but think Randomskk and daveake are contradicting
[19:15] <Randomskk> the stack starts high and writes down
[19:15] <Randomskk> so it'l hit the IO registers
[19:15] <Randomskk> and start setting peripherals
[19:16] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: the compiler doesn't need to know what calls what to count static memory allocation
[19:16] <Randomskk> though the compiler _does_ check bits of that, for optimisation, e.g. remove unused functions
[19:17] <mattbrejza> i misused the term static
[19:17] <Randomskk> when I say "static memory allocation" I mean all the memory allocation you're donig
[19:17] <mattbrejza> i ment a normal int i; declaration in a function
[19:17] <Randomskk> yea that is static memory allocation
[19:17] <Randomskk> dynamic memory allocation is when you write a memory manager and implement alloc()
[19:17] <Randomskk> or, well, start using random addresses in RAM yourself to store data
[19:17] <Randomskk> which is much the same if less organised
[19:17] <mattbrejza> so itll save space for all variables even if they arent being used at the same time?
[19:18] <Randomskk> hum
[19:18] <mattbrejza> what does it use the stack for?
[19:18] <Randomskk> function calls, arguments, state
[19:18] <mattbrejza> hmm ok
[19:18] <Randomskk> http://gribblelab.org/CBootcamp/7_Memory_Stack_vs_Heap.html
[19:18] <mattbrejza> should probably work this out by playing about
[19:18] <Randomskk> I recommend compiling with -S
[19:19] <Randomskk> and checking out the output assembler
[19:19] <Randomskk> it makes it really clear
[19:19] <mikestir> ummm int n in a function is allocated on the stack in C
[19:19] <Randomskk> as it PUSH and POPs to/from the stack and stuff
[19:19] <mikestir> and int n[1000] is as well
[19:19] <mikestir> it won't be counted in .bss
[19:20] <Randomskk> well it's not like the AVR uses a heap
[19:20] <mikestir> no, but it does use a stack
[19:20] <mikestir> static int n; will show in the .bss count, int n; will not
[19:21] <Randomskk> sure
[19:22] <Randomskk> static int n = 5; goes to .data though?
[19:22] <mikestir> yes
[19:22] <mikestir> and static int n has an initial value of 0, but int n is undefined
[19:22] <Randomskk> int n will be initialised to 0
[19:22] <Randomskk> oh
[19:23] <Randomskk> sorry yea
[19:23] <Randomskk> static int n
[19:23] <mattbrejza> .text being flash?
[19:23] <mattbrejza> .data being strings and such
[19:23] <Randomskk> .text and .data go into flash
[19:23] <Randomskk> .data and .bss go into ram
[19:24] <mattbrejza> .bss being variables that are global, static
[19:24] <Randomskk> .text is your code, .data is stuff like strings but also any static data like "int n = 5"
[19:24] <mattbrejza> other varaibles going on the stack
[19:24] <Randomskk> generally. though I think sometimes int n = 5 the 5 will end up in .text anyway
[19:24] <Randomskk> since it can be loaded in as one constant in the assembler
[19:24] <mattbrejza> dec?
[19:25] <mattbrejza> oh
[19:25] <mattbrejza> text+data+bss i guess
[19:25] <mikestir> .data goes into flash _and_ ram
[19:25] <mikestir> or rather, takes up space in both
[19:25] <mikestir> on avr at least (harvard architecture remember)
[19:26] <mikestir> some archs may have a const data section which is kept only in ROM
[19:26] <mattbrejza> hmm data + bss = 2387
[19:26] <mattbrejza> how does that code not crash :$
[19:29] <mattbrejza> bbl
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[19:34] <JDat> dohh
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[19:34] <JDat> just checked again browser problems
[19:34] <JDat> AdBlock+ is the problems for tracker
[19:34] <JDat> problem*
[19:35] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[19:37] <JDat> Anybody tried realtime video downlink form baloon?
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, again, hotel was not mine
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> was a friend of mine who wanted to go to London just for holiday
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> JDat, yeah here in germany ATV had been used
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, Randomskk have a look http://s.gullipics.com/image/6/3/d/5yveum-kuggzk-2fap/Bildschirmfotovom20130823213507.png
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:39] <JDat> any web link for this?
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> no sorry
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> Nice Lunar_Lander
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> You could probably get it smaller if you had an external battery pack mounted behind it
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> but I am happy about it being done like that at first :)
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> I guess the GPS header is for upu's board with the chip antenna?
[19:51] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[19:51] <chrisstubbs> watch the clearance with the batteries if they are monted on the top too
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> you mean with the width and so on?
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> no sarantel GPS breakout
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> vertical mount
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> Ah cool that should be fine then
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[19:56] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: are you trying to float tomorrow?
[19:56] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, nope testing a new board, seeing if i killed a GPS bug and testing some new balloons
[19:56] <chrisstubbs> 35g latex with a 1.2m burst point
[19:56] <chrisstubbs> want to get it above 12k
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Is it a party one? I flown my 1st balloon with something like this size
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> 36" ones yeah
[19:57] <chrisstubbs> I cant imagine they are very good for floating?
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[20:13] <LeoBodnar> I don't know, my tracker failed at 11,000m but it came down pretty soon after that chrisstubbs
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[20:43] <arko> LeoBodnar: any guesses?
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> 42?
[20:52] <arko> correct!
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> arko, remember how I asked about instrument selection recently?
[20:53] <arko> yes?
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> I think you didn't give a complete answer on how the decisions are made
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> is it that NASA decides what to measure and then contracts are given to researchers?
[20:54] <arko> its more complicated than that
[20:54] <arko> i'll have to explain later
[20:54] <arko> im busy atm
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok, thanks
[20:57] <wrea> dart boards and rock, paper scissors im guessing
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[20:57] <arko> very close
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> Upu how do you remove the pins from an ntx2?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> pliers?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> chrisstubbs: hammer
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> lol cheers
[20:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Dentist
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> they seem to be hooked through the pcb
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> btw why did Radiometrix move production to Mauritius?
[21:00] Upu_M0UPU (Upu_M0UPU@ptr-98.244.219.82.rev.exa.net.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu_M0UPU
[21:05] <Upu_M0UPU> evening Lunar
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> do you want to see my first work in KiCAD?
[21:05] <Upu_M0UPU> sure
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/6/3/d/5yveum-kuggzk-2fap/Bildschirmfotovom20130823213507.png
[21:07] <Upu_M0UPU> great :) now do it again with SMD's :)
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> :) thanks
[21:08] <Upu_M0UPU> I don't like through hole stuff any more
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[21:12] <Upu_M0UPU> take up too much space
[21:12] <Upu_M0UPU> actually harder to solder
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:19] <fsphil> anyone point me to a script or guide on building a cross compiler gcc for arm. I'm failing badly at compiling it but I've done it once before, and can't remember the script I used
[21:20] <Bo|2> Q about ublox... is there anything critical to PCB layout i should know?
[21:20] <Bo|2> decoupler caps as close to chip right?
[21:21] <Bo|2> but anything else?
[21:21] <mfa298> fsphil: is there not a packaged version
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[21:21] <Bo|2> not near curtain stuff etc
[21:21] <fsphil> mfa298: not on fedora
[21:21] <Randomskk> fsphil: summon-arm-toolchain
[21:21] <Randomskk> or there's a new one now
[21:21] <fsphil> Randomskk: I'm trying that one atm
[21:21] <Randomskk> but just use summon-arm-toolchain
[21:21] <Randomskk> you need nothing else
[21:21] <Randomskk> it's wonderful
[21:21] <fsphil> keep hitting errors
[21:21] <Randomskk> doing it wrong
[21:21] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK
[21:21] <fsphil> and naturally
[21:21] <Randomskk> what are you trying to target?
[21:21] <fsphil> the moment I say that
[21:21] <fsphil> it finishes
[21:22] <Randomskk> lol
[21:22] <mfa298> I thought I'd seen something suggesting there was one, although maybe that was in a different repo (might be worth trying rpmfusion)
[21:22] <fsphil> Randomskk: summon's seems to have been discontinued
[21:22] <Randomskk> ah yea https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
[21:22] <Randomskk> summon was super cool back when
[21:22] <fsphil> there is an arm-gcc but it seems to be for building kernels only
[21:22] <Randomskk> of course I remember having to make my own toolchain from scratch
[21:22] <Randomskk> back in '07
[21:22] <Randomskk> god that was hard
[21:23] <fsphil> and you're still sane?
[21:23] <Randomskk> and make all your own makefiles and linker scripts
[21:23] <Randomskk> this was in sixth form for my project
[21:23] <mfa298> I tried doing cross compiling years ago before it was cool (but I think that was for an SGI and there wasn't that much kernel support for them either)
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[21:26] <fsphil> woo it did work too
[21:27] <fsphil> most of my errors where missing dependencies
[21:27] <fsphil> on my desktop there seems to be problems with the newer packages
[21:27] <fsphil> could only build it on my laptop with the older os
[21:30] <Bo_DK> who is the ublox expert in here?
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[21:47] <zyp> 23:22:44 < Randomskk> summon was super cool back when
[21:47] <zyp> it's pretty outdated now
[21:47] <zyp> the one on launchpad is pretty good
[21:49] <fsphil> isn't the launchpad thing a ubuntu binary?
[21:50] <Randomskk> the launchpad one is a whole toolchain maintained by ARM iirc
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[22:05] <Laurenceb_> launchpad is giving best results for me atm
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> out of summon/codesourcery/launchpad
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> IAR is only slightly better
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[22:15] <Laurenceb_> launchpad is the only one where the fpu is running nicely on F3/F4 with all the math functions ive bothered to try
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> with zero faff... im sure this isnt a definitive guideline
[22:15] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[22:16] <zyp> Randomskk, yep
[22:16] <zyp> fsphil, no, they maintain generic binaries for both linux, windows and OS X
[22:18] <fsphil> trying it now
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[22:21] <Laurenceb_> whats the target?
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> STM32?
[22:22] <fsphil> arm
[22:23] <fsphil> not sure what the processor is actually
[22:23] <fsphil> I'm trying to build chdk
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:24] <fsphil> it's compiling now so that's further than it's got so far
[22:25] <fsphil> but failing on a program called elf2flt -- guessing flt is what the camera expects executables in
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> am i being really stupid
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin#Diagnostic_uses
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> or does that make no sense whatsoever?
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> octave:53> 150/64500
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> ans = 0.0023256
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> 2.3millimolar surely??
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[22:27] <SpeedEvil> it's Wikipedia. you expect it to make sense?
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> lol SpeedEvil
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> thought you were a wikipedia fanatic
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> well...
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> it's great.
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> For MCHC the conversion factor 0.155
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> but it does suffer from being a collection of pages.
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> saywhat?!
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> each time a reread that paragraph it makes less sense
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you're now trying to make a hyperloop using haemoglobin to absorb oxygen at the front and release it at the back?
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> oh
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> dont give me ideas
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> ok i wotked it out
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> they confused haemoglobin and haemoglobin sub units
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> which is just stupidly confusing
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> a collection of unorganized pages.
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> in the literature people use the entire unit
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_, some biophysics?
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> so the molarities need to be multiplied by 4
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> s/multiplied/divided
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> to be fair ive made the same mistake myself
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> spent ages wondering why my metabolic rate sensor was off by a factor of 4
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> biophysics?
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> welcome to the club
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> working on EPR stopped-flow at the moment
[22:43] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[22:46] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
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[22:53] <WillTablet> I have landed in Kirkham
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[22:54] Action: SpeedEvil wishes again transcutaneus hallucinatory was easy.
[22:55] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.17.110.116) left irc:
[22:59] Action: WillTablet can't spell that let alone know what it is.
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> Lunar_Lander: interesting, I met some people from Halle-Wittenberg working on the same thing recently
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> err
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> glucometry
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> stupid dictionary doesn't even know elements like osmium.
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: mri?
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> magnetic resonance, yea
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> but not imaging
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:07] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> a MRI machine is yet another thing on my stack
[23:09] <Iain_G4sgx_> 'Transcutaneus hallucinatory', i.e. LSD through the skin? I tried it, over rated.
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil, but actually we once discussed how MRT works, that it is some sort of 3D NMR
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> and our post-doc said he'd like to look into 3D-EPR
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> so basically imaging, yea
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> It's not actually really very hard.
[23:13] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> If you are willing to accept low resolution, long scan times, and probably earth field imaging
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Going higher than that rapidly gets complex
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Something that can tell if you have all the fingers on your hand for example in half an hour seems quite achievable.
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[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:50] <craag> How long in advance do I normally need to apply for a NOTAM? (If I'm not called Dave)
[23:55] <craag> duh 28 days
[00:00] --- Sat Aug 24 2013