highaltitude.log.20130822

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[06:43] Nick change: Jake -> Guest82441
[06:43] <Guest82441> Hi, I'm from aus and looking at sending up an rpi to do some HAB stuff
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[06:44] <Guest82441> was browsing the wiki
[06:44] <chrisstubbsW> Hi Guest82441
[06:45] azend (~quassel@24-212-181-175.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:45] <Guest82441> And having a look at the radio receivers recommended. Was wondering if there were any cheaper ones that people had used?
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[06:45] <Guest82441> Hi chris! You can call me jake.
[06:45] <eroomde> Guest3447, there's a huge divide that works like this
[06:45] <Guest82441> guest824441 is so formal.
[06:45] <eroomde> normal amatuer radio stuf $$$$$ ----------------- [nothing] ------------- Software Defined radio sticks $
[06:46] <UpuWork> s/nothing/fun cube dongle
[06:46] <eroomde> so on the right you have things like the rtl-sdr receiver sticks which you can get for maybe $15USD
[06:46] <eroomde> and then the funcube dongle for slightly more
[06:46] <eroomde> i still put that on the right upu :)
[06:46] <number10> second hand scanner >= £80
[06:46] <UpuWork> fair enough :)
[06:46] <eroomde> there is actually some super joy to be had with enough ebay patience as number10 says
[06:47] <eroomde> in the $100USD-250USD bracket
[06:47] <eroomde> like a second hand good scanner of yeasu FT790
[06:47] <eroomde> or*
[06:47] <Guest82441> yeah, I brief search of the recommended units but still looking at $>500 atm
[06:47] <eroomde> people have definitely picked up the FT790 for about $200USD
[06:47] <eroomde> but yes, needs some patience
[06:48] <eroomde> other people like upu know more about the funcube dongle than me, but it probably is the thing to go for if you want something soon
[06:48] <UpuWork> its as sensitive as a "proper" radio for about 1/6th the cost
[06:48] <Guest82441> yeah, figures. would the counterpart reciever that radiometrix offer be fine hooked into another pi? or will that add a lot of complexity. $200 is reasonable for me
[06:49] <UpuWork> and >>>> than an DVD dongle
[06:49] <eroomde> DVB*
[06:49] <UpuWork> I have to afk some please explain why they NRX2 isn't going to work :)
[06:49] <number10> radiometrix rx not suitable with the way we drive the tx
[06:49] <eroomde> ^
[06:50] <Guest82441> okay
[06:50] <Guest82441> this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-FT-790-RII-70CM-ALL-MODE-RADIO-/151105446725
[06:51] <eroomde> that
[06:51] <Guest82441> cool :)
[06:51] <eroomde> so you'll just be stuck on 434MHz with that
[06:51] <eroomde> but it's a great rig
[06:51] <eroomde> and we used it as our main rig for several years
[06:51] <eroomde> very very sensitive
[06:52] <eroomde> but the funcube dongle might be the better thing for the money nowadays
[06:53] <eroomde> not sure
[06:54] <eroomde> that photo looks odd on the ebay listing
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[06:54] <eroomde> oh, slightly newer model to the one we had
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[06:58] <Guest82441> righto. it seemed to look the same as the other ones on google image search. but i'm not sure what exactly to look for with such things.
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[07:40] <ibanezmatt13> Morning
[07:41] <ibanezmatt13> Results in just over an hour :/
[07:42] <HixWork> good luck ibanezmatt13. Nephew gets his today too.
[07:42] <ibanezmatt13> Good luck to him too :)
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[07:48] <UpuWork> good luck ibanezmatt13
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks UpuWork
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> Hey UpuWork, you get my email?
[07:49] <UpuWork> I did
[07:49] <UpuWork> will look at it later
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, thanks
[07:49] <UpuWork> just doing patches for www.mcfc.co.uk web servers atm and I have to concentrate :)
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[07:51] <ibanezmatt13> cool :)
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[08:02] <fsphil> nothing important then UpuWork
[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[08:03] <fsphil> hey UpuWork look, pink elephants that are totally not distracting: https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3f4suhTw91r6kih7.jpg
[08:03] <ibanezmatt13> what the hell :) haha
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[08:08] <WillTablet> Good luck ibanezmatt13
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks Will
[08:08] <SpeedEvil> My council now has drones.
[08:08] <SpeedEvil> Well - sorta
[08:08] <WillTablet> Well, not that luck will make any difference.,
[08:08] <SpeedEvil> Very like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtxoCamyQrw
[08:08] <fsphil> resistance is feutile?
[08:08] <SpeedEvil> RC grass-mowing orange tanks.
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[08:09] <fsphil> nice
[08:10] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 are you one of the last age groups that can leave school at 16?
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure Will
[08:10] <SpeedEvil> Barking mad.
[08:11] <SpeedEvil> Some people need to leave school at 14.
[08:11] <WillTablet> I mean, could you not go to college if you didn't want to?
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> Agreed
[08:11] <SpeedEvil> And be able to get that couple of years later if they need it
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> Anyway, I'm gonna go get ready :/ See you!
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[08:12] <WillTablet> Well, for many people the 4 years after that makes go difference, and they might as well start working at mcdonald's at 14
[08:12] <HixWork> WillTablet http://goo.gl/IJDfcF
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[08:16] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[08:16] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: I would disagree
[08:16] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: The 4 years makes a significantly negative difference.
[08:17] <WillTablet> OK
[08:17] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: They go from attending school regularly, to truanting because they find it useless, and then bad stuff happens in the rest of their life
[08:17] <WillTablet> Well, I meant no positive difference.
[08:17] <SpeedEvil> Truanting -> likely to not attend work regularly -> oops
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[08:26] <Piet0r> Testing 1,2,3
[08:26] <mfa298_> nope the test didn't work I didn't see 1,2,3 :p
[08:27] <fsphil> I saw 4,5,6
[08:27] <Piet0r> Ah my mic was turned off .. 1,2,3 .. is that better?
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[09:05] <Piet0r> Does anyone know when there will be a balloon launched in the UK or The Netherlands?
[09:08] <mfa298_> Piet0r: there's a few due to be launched over the weekend (predictions permitting)
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[09:10] <Piet0r> Yay :)
[09:10] <Piet0r> I found LeoBodnars B-6 flight very entertaining
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[09:13] <number10> Piet0r: there should be a flight or two in uk on Saturday
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[09:14] <chrisstubbsw> I'm possibly flying a latex pico on friday evening
[09:15] <chrisstubbsw> Thinking about that I may well do it in the daytime over the weekend so I can go and get it
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[09:24] <ibanezmatt13> 4 A*s, 4As! :D
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[09:25] <ibanezmatt13> Didn't expect that in a million years
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[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna launch a balloon on Saturday to celebrate :)
[09:26] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, have you got your results?
[09:26] <number10> well done ibanezmatt13
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> thank you number10 :)
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> yes Willdude123
[09:27] <Willdude123> What did you get?
[09:27] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/EpQNhfM I forgot what this track was for.
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> 4 A*s and 4 As
[09:27] <Willdude123> Nice
[09:27] <Willdude123> Might have been a ground plane bit not sure.
[09:29] <UpuWork> nice ibanezmatt13
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks UpuWork :)
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> Next step, A level further maths :/ Jesus
[09:30] <UpuWork> do it
[09:30] <UpuWork> maths is interesting
[09:30] <fsphil> congrats ibanezmatt13. it's all down hill from here (joking ;)
[09:31] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks fsphil, I'm sure you're correct :)
[09:31] <Willdude123> UpuWork, realised making this board is gonna be a lot more expensive than I thought. I figured after buying a proper soldering iron and the ublox, and all the components, it's going to cost near £50
[09:31] <ibanezmatt13> Same here Will, can barely afford to build the NORB board
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> You must save up :)
[09:32] <Willdude123> Heh
[09:32] <fsphil> raid the sofa for pennies
[09:32] <Willdude123> In fact, I guess I could try to desolder the ublox
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> Right, I'm off for a celebratory coffee and bagel :P
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> Laters!
[09:32] <fsphil> euu
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> haha
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[09:33] <Willdude123> Antenna is surface mount so should be easy.
[09:33] <fsphil> er.. enjoy.. or something :)
[09:33] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/oZ1wdD
[09:33] <Willdude123> The ublox probably won't come off
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> If you don't care about the board - you can heat the board from the bottom with a blowtorch - outside - to remove surface mount components on the top
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[09:46] <Willdude123> Yeah cause I have a blow torch
[09:46] <eroomde> coffee and bagel
[09:46] <Willdude123> I'm just doing the DRC and there's some overlap
[09:46] Action: eroomde approves of increasing habitual cosmopolitanism amongst teenagers
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: bonfire then
[09:47] <Willdude123> Can I do a join.me session because I can't figure out why there's an overlap
[09:47] <Willdude123> With someone?
[09:47] <Willdude123> https://join.me/402-245-698
[09:48] <Willdude123> Someone please help
[09:49] <Willdude123> Fine
[09:49] <Willdude123> nvm
[09:50] <eroomde> Willdude123, i think your patience quota is about 4000x too low for IRC
[09:50] <eroomde> sorry
[09:50] <Willdude123> Ok
[09:50] <eroomde> people have jobs
[09:51] <Willdude123> I'll ask in hackvana then
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[09:52] <eroomde> not sure
[09:52] <eroomde> try ripping it up and relaying it
[09:52] <fsphil> you saying the people in hackvana have no jobs? :)
[09:53] <eroomde> make sure you rip up on the pad itself too
[09:53] <eroomde> just incase there's something hiding under the pad
[09:55] <eroomde> ah that might be why
[09:56] <Willdude123> Ripped up
[09:56] <Willdude123> Now there's no airwire
[09:56] <eroomde> gtg will apologies
[09:57] <Willdude123> OK
[09:57] <Willdude123> argh
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[09:58] <Willdude123> Anyone want to help?
[09:59] <Willdude123> Now I've ripped it up the airwire has disappeared
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[10:02] <Willdude123> IDK wth is wrong with it
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[10:04] <Willdude123> There's still a bloody overlap
[10:07] <Willdude123> Fine I'll come back later
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[10:09] <ibanezmatt13> I've extracted a zip file for a python package but when I try to install it, the error is that setuptools is not installed. I'm on Windows and I was wondering how to get the setuptools thing
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[10:10] <Piet0r> @ibanezmatt13 Have you tried Google? ;)
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, not much use
[10:11] <Piet0r> Do you have any experience with Python?
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, quite a bit but never one Windows :)
[10:11] <Piet0r> Ah
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> I managed to install the requests package into Python on Windows ok, but that didn't require this setuptools which I can't find :P
[10:13] <Piet0r> setuptools is a toolset to easily install Python packages
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> ah wait, think I found it
[10:13] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, do you know why this is happening on the DRC?
[10:13] <Piet0r> But you can also just drop the package in you python library path
[10:13] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/jgT0pWa
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> I edited the PATH system variable Piet0r to my Python location and it worked perfectly for other packages
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: It's normal to get errors like that, most can be dismissed
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a proper look at it later :) Bit busy
[10:15] <Willdude123> OK
[10:16] <Piet0r> @ibanezmatt13 Seen this: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/setuptools/1.0#windows ?
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[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, just tried that. It failed installation
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> The py file it told me to run got up to extracting then failed
[10:18] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, congrats
[10:18] <eroomde> you're all set, it looks like
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13> thanks ed :) Perhaps not for further maths but ah well
[10:19] UpuWork (~UpuWork@2a02:b80:12:1:9cca:c5a1:e9f4:1166) joined #highaltitude.
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'm still taking it though eroomde
[10:19] <eroomde> how did you do in maths?
[10:19] <eroomde> or did you do that last year?
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13> I got an A :/
[10:20] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, that's better than a B, C, D, E or F
[10:20] <Willdude123> or U
[10:20] <Willdude123> Or X
[10:21] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'm happy with it. It's just I resat to get the A* and didn't get it
[10:21] <ibanezmatt13> Installing setuptools on windows is the most frustrating thing
[10:22] <Piet0r> @ibanezmatt13 Then don't use Windows ;)
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> I have to for this particular program :)
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I'd like to
[10:24] <eroomde> which particular program?
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> Just a little Twitter thing I'm doing
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> I got it working :)
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[10:30] <Willdude123> congrats
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> ta
[10:31] <danielsaul> ibanezmatt13: Probably better and easier to have it running on a server? Do you have access to one?
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> Well, not sure about that really danielsaul. I'm off out for lunch now but I'll look into that when I get back
[10:32] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, what is a results day like? Is everyone sobbing and hugging each other?
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, very dramatic for some
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> see you
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[10:35] <OE1FEA> Hallo Admins! Q: Who is responsible for DB deletions @habhub.org?
[10:36] <Willdude123> Hi
[10:36] <Willdude123> You could ask in #habhu
[10:36] <Willdude123> *#habhub
[10:36] <Willdude123> Probably someone in here who can help with that
[10:36] <UpuWork> nothing really get deleted
[10:36] <OE1FEA> thx. there also approval will be done?
[10:37] <OE1FEA> I have created a llot of duplicated records :(
[10:37] <UpuWork> don't worry its only the latest one that takes effect
[10:37] <Willdude123> UpuWork, is it possible to desolder the antenna from the board or am I going to have to buy a new one? (this board is seeming like it'll be way too expensive in total)
[10:37] <danielsaul> OE1FEA: Don't worry about duplicates, move over to #habhub and we'll get whatever you need approved
[10:37] <Willdude123> As in the Taoglas one
[10:38] <UpuWork> you'll have to buy a new one as its soldered and glued
[10:38] <Willdude123> Oh yay
[10:38] <Willdude123> Dammit this is gonna be like £50 after I buy a proper soldering iron.
[10:39] <Willdude123> Not sure if it's worth it really
[10:39] <UpuWork> as opposed to what ?
[10:39] <Willdude123> I suppose so. Will order the 7c now.
[10:40] <Willdude123> Actually, I guess I'll have to ask my parents.
[10:40] <Willdude123> They probably won't let me order the stuff.
[10:40] <UpuWork> just hang fire will
[10:40] <UpuWork> that PCB ain't right
[10:41] <UpuWork> I'll help you with it but its likely to be next week
[10:41] <Willdude123> What do you mean?
[10:41] <Willdude123> As in how straight it is.
[10:41] <Willdude123> ?
[10:41] <UpuWork> all sorts but busy atm
[10:41] <Willdude123> Oh
[10:42] <Willdude123> OK then.
[10:42] <Willdude123> So my PCB is awfully wrong?
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[10:47] <eroomde> i don't think he said that
[10:47] <eroomde> so it would be silly to conclude that
[10:48] <Willdude123> all sorts but busy atm
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[10:48] <eroomde> yes
[10:48] <Willdude123> Which means all sorts of things are wrong with it
[10:48] <eroomde> which is not 'awfully wrong'
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[10:48] <Willdude123> Anyway. I need something to do.
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[10:49] <eroomde> most early attempts at PCBs have a lot of little things in them that are beginner mistakes, stylistically wrong, or whatever
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[10:49] <eroomde> doesn't mean the exercise is a write-off, it just means you're lucky enough to have some more experienced people look over it for you to save you some money on a v2
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[10:50] <S_Mark> hi all, whats the best way of sticking the black plastic caps over the sarantel antenna?
[10:50] <S_Mark> glue gun?
[10:51] <eroomde> i used either epoxy near the base or mounted the cap in a panel
[10:51] <eroomde> glue guns and cold temperatures do not mix
[10:51] <eroomde> advise against going there
[10:51] <Willdude123> eroomde, I watched the call centre thing.
[10:51] <Willdude123> It was quite interesting.
[10:51] <eroomde> stay in school, kids
[10:52] <S_Mark> cool thanks eroomde
[10:52] <Willdude123> They may be completely dumb but at least they are working.
[10:52] <Willdude123> At least they are doing something
[10:52] <Willdude123> Even if it's not well paid, and even if they aren't good at it, they are doing something, which is more than many people do
[10:53] <Willdude123> Right quick bf3 match
[10:53] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Willdude123_BF3
[10:56] <Willdude123_BF3> Can't get a match
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[11:03] <craag> I'm not sure why BF3 takes a good few minutes to load a level that I've played before, every time.
[11:03] <craag> It's like it's downloading the map file from the server each time.
[11:04] <eroomde> i have no idea what anyone is talking about
[11:05] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[11:38] <PE2G> Hi all, will track the De Bilt ozone sonde.
[11:38] <PE2G> Tracker at http://sondetracker.radiosonda.sk/v2/index.html
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[11:39] <PE2G> Zoom in to The Netherlands
[11:39] <PE2G> It's up this moment
[11:43] <Piet0r> Yay another Dutchie :)
[11:44] <Piet0r> Toch?
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[11:45] <PE2G> Yes
[11:45] <Piet0r> I thought the GPS-data from the KNMI-sondes is encrypted
[11:46] <PE2G> No, you only need SondeMonitor by COAA
[11:46] <Piet0r> Or are you a KNMI-employee?
[11:46] <Piet0r> Oh
[11:47] <Piet0r> Does that also count for the regular sondes?
[11:47] <PE2G> Yes. I do send my data to KNMI though.
[11:47] <Piet0r> Without ozon-sensor?
[11:47] <Piet0r> But you do not work for KNMI?
[11:47] <PE2G> No, strictly hobby
[11:47] <Piet0r> Cool
[11:48] <PE2G> Where are you in NL?
[11:49] <Piet0r> I work in Utrecht and live in Zeist
[11:50] <PE2G> OK. Landing prediction is Stroe
[11:50] <PE2G> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=e790d5dfbb732285810a62b9087b2d3ac93626ec
[11:50] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[11:50] <Piet0r> That's near my parents (Ermelo) :p
[11:51] <PE2G> I just got news that a radio HAM is alreaydy following it by car
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[11:58] <Piet0r> Too bad for me .. I would really like to find one of those sondes
[11:58] <Piet0r> Although I know I can't do anything with it
[11:58] <Piet0r> It's still cool to find :)
[11:59] <bertrik> is the O3 sonde up now?
[11:59] <fsphil> I was hoping to get one this weekend but the predictions have moved away
[11:59] <Piet0r> Did that HAM tell you that by radio or via another IRC-channel or something?
[11:59] <PE2G> bertrik: Yes
[12:00] <PE2G> Piet0r: Het sent an sms
[12:00] <PE2G> he sent
[12:00] <Piet0r> Ah
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[12:00] <Piet0r> Damn fine technology, sms ;)
[12:01] <PE2G> yeah, we keep in contact, so you know who is chasing a sonde
[12:02] <Piet0r> Are most sondes tracked down or only the ones with a ozon-sensor?
[12:03] <PE2G> Yes, most sondes are tracked, but not many are fed to a tracker site
[12:05] <PE2G> Oh, you mean whether most sondes are recovered... In NL: yes they are
[12:05] <Piet0r> That's what I mend
[12:06] <Piet0r> Good thing though, since they put regular AA-batteries in them
[12:08] <PE2G> Not your regular AAs: Panasonic Industrial alkaline (not for retail)
[12:09] <Piet0r> Still pretty environment-unfriendly ;)
[12:09] <PE2G> Yup. http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/AA_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf
[12:10] <PE2G> http://fwestra.home.xs4all.nl/RS/De_Bilt_160813_00Z/De_Bilt_16-08-13_00Z_g.html
[12:11] <Piet0r> Yeah I was already looking at those pictures ;)
[12:11] <Piet0r> Cool stuff
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[12:14] <PE2G> The O3 sonde is following the predicted track nicely
[12:15] <Piet0r> What is the 03-sonde?
[12:15] <PE2G> O3 = ozone
[12:15] <Piet0r> Ah
[12:15] <Piet0r> I knew that :p
[12:16] <Piet0r> I can hear the balloon on my porto :)
[12:16] <PE2G> Nice
[12:17] <PE2G> The signal will get stronger, the higher it gets
[12:17] <Piet0r> What kind of receiver do you use?
[12:17] <bertrik> it's gaussian FSK if I remember correctly
[12:18] <PE2G> For these sondes, I use a Realistic Pro-2035
[12:18] <Piet0r> Ah
[12:19] <PE2G> Performs very well between 401 - 406 MHz
[12:19] <Piet0r> A cheap DVB-T stick would also work, right?
[12:19] <Piet0r> I used that do decode POCSAG and FLEX paging messages
[12:20] <PE2G> Yes, DVB-T sticks are widely used for this.
[12:20] <bertrik> Piet0r: yes, it works
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[12:24] <bertrik> Piet0r: with a simple homemade antenna built out of coax cable, I can hear the KNMI sondes and the belgian sondes (seem to be a bit more powerful)
[12:28] <Piet0r> I have a Diamond X30 on my roof
[12:28] <fsphil> you'll have no trouble
[12:29] <fsphil> only problems I have are with the software
[12:29] <fsphil> running sondemonitor under wine is iffy
[12:30] <Piet0r> I have Linux and Windows on my PC so that should not be a problem
[12:31] <Piet0r> Can I also use fl-digi?
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[12:31] <bertrik> yes!
[12:31] <bertrik> oh, for tracking sondes? no
[12:31] <Piet0r> :/
[12:32] <bertrik> would be nice to have an open-source equivalent to sondemonitor
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[12:36] <craag> maybe mikestir can add it to his new software ;)
[12:37] <fsphil> an open source decoder would be fantastic
[12:37] <mattbrejza> i think mikestir needs an api to let people add their own components at this rate
[12:38] <craag> Yep it sounded like he was going to put one in
[12:38] <mattbrejza> do the sondes just give FSK but higher baud rate than us?
[12:38] <craag> GMSK iirc
[12:38] <fsphil> I've not seen it yet, is it online anywhere?
[12:39] <mattbrejza> i dont know if anyone is hosting one atm, but the source is online
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[12:39] <craag> The source is on his github, but I don't have a link.
[12:41] <mattbrejza> http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio/repository
[12:41] <mattbrejza> not github yet it seems
[12:42] <fsphil> ah, personal github
[12:43] <Piet0r> @PE2G Do you know the expected burst altitude?
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[12:43] <Piet0r> 33KM?
[12:44] <jcoxon> afternoon
[12:44] <fsphil> howdy jc
[12:45] <PE2G> Piet0r: Average burst alt is 31 km, but KNMI is always hoping for higher than that...
[12:45] <fsphil> they need some hwoyee's :)
[12:45] <PE2G> I think they use hwoyees
[12:45] <craag> What size of balloon do they normally use for met sondes?
[12:46] <mattbrejza> probably no more than 500g?
[12:47] <PE2G> 1200 gram hwoyee for O3 sondes (I think)
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[12:48] <PE2G> Sorry, KNMI use TOTEX TX1200
[12:48] <PE2G> For O3 sondes
[12:49] <craag> O3 units quite heavy then?
[12:50] <PE2G> Off the top of my head: 500 gr
[12:50] <craag> oh ok
[12:55] <Piet0r> 27KM now
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[13:01] <Piet0r> @PE2G Are you decoding more sondes or only the KNMI-ones?
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[13:03] <PE2G> Piet0r: Yeah, I'm trying to decode anything within radio range
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[13:04] <Piet0r> Do you have to setup everything manually or are you just scanning a frequency range and start decoding everything you find?
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[13:05] <PE2G> Most of the time I 'target' a specific freq, where a sonde should appear.
[13:06] <PE2G> Most freqs are known
[13:06] <IRC_ukhas> So my TH-F7E has arrived :-)
[13:07] <IRC_ukhas> Very prompt shipping from the guy who sold it to me. He doesn't have a callsign but said he had used it for covert surveillance
[13:07] <PE2G> Piet0r: http://www.radiosonde.eu/RS02/RS02A.html#02
[13:07] <IRC_ukhas> So he was using it as a scanner?
[13:07] <craag> IRC_ukhas: I'm guessing that's you Oliver
[13:07] <Piet0r> Or he is just lying
[13:07] <craag> haha covert surveillance
[13:07] <Piet0r> People lie, you know ;)
[13:07] <fsphil> lol
[13:07] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[13:08] <fsphil> did he sell tinfoil hats?
[13:08] <astrobiologist> Oops sorry I'm on my iPad, doesn't do /nick automatically
[13:08] <fsphil> I suppose covert survellance can also be listening to Radio 1
[13:08] <craag> Yes, covertly....
[13:09] <astrobiologist> The PTT didn't work to begin with (obviously I didn't really transmit, but you can use the PTT to select various menus etc)
[13:09] <astrobiologist> Seems o.k now... Any way could always use VOX.
[13:10] <Piet0r> Why didn't you buy a cheap porto from eBay? (I'm just interested)
[13:10] <astrobiologist> I'm sitting here though scanning the entire 144-146 band but not hearing anything?
[13:10] <craag> Sometimes the switch can be a bit worn out. You'll probably be able to find some guides to replace it on google.
[13:10] <astrobiologist> Can pick up radio 1 ironically! But where is all the ham activity in London?
[13:10] <craag> How he wore it out with 'covert surveillance' I dont know....
[13:11] <craag> Try 144.8 Narrow FM
[13:11] <craag> You should after a while hear some data bursts
[13:11] <craag> (APRS!)
[13:11] <astrobiologist> piet0r it was relatively cheap on eBay, £80. it has a built in scanner over a much wider range, including
[13:11] <fsphil> I didn't hear much aprs in london
[13:11] <fsphil> at least the part I was in last time
[13:11] <astrobiologist> ssb for hab, hopefully
[13:12] <craag> Yeah there seems to be very little ham activity in london
[13:12] <craag> Apparently the repeaters got so abused that nobody wanted responsibility for them any more.
[13:12] <Piet0r> Ah yes, most Chinaporto's don't do SSB
[13:12] <fsphil> need some codec2 repeaters, with access codes
[13:13] <craag> I occasionally hear stuff on 145.500, but that's with a 5/8 magmount out on my car
[13:13] <mattbrejza> any idea how the f7 compares performance wise to a 817/funcube/rtl etc on ssb?
[13:13] <craag> hehe yes, that would filter out some of the 'less-technical' folk!
[13:14] <craag> f7?
[13:14] <craag> ah his ht
[13:14] <craag> I'd say less sensitive from what I've seen with mfa298_ 's one.
[13:14] <fsphil> actually there shold be enough bandwidth on 2m/70cm for the opus codec
[13:15] <astrobiologist> Mfa298 said it was comparable with the cheaper SDRs
[13:15] <fsphil> that would sound really good
[13:15] <craag> fsphil: That would be nice.
[13:15] <mattbrejza> oh ok, not really worth getting for a standalone rtty radio
[13:15] <mattbrejza> for chasing
[13:15] <craag> For chasing it works fine
[13:15] <astrobiologist> I wanted it for ham too, so it seemed a reasonable compromise
[13:16] <fsphil> indeed
[13:16] <astrobiologist> I'll feel a bit lonely if there is no one to talk or listento tho'!
[13:16] <mattbrejza> might have to get some for susf, but there arnt that many on ebay it seems
[13:17] <astrobiologist> 145.5 is totally silent...
[13:17] <fsphil> we should make a little arm-based sdr handheld radio
[13:17] <craag> astrobiologist: With the integrated antenna indoors I doubt you'll hear much
[13:17] <mattbrejza> i suggested that yday as it happens :P
[13:17] <craag> hehe fsphil I hear an echo
[13:17] <fsphil> haha
[13:17] <Piet0r> The 03 sonde has popped
[13:17] <mattbrejza> issue is getting hold of the tuner ICs
[13:17] <mattbrejza> otherwise should be reasonably simple
[13:17] <mattbrejza> ideally get the tuner from the new fcd
[13:18] <astrobiologist> What goes on on 453.275 has some sort of loud data signal on it
[13:18] <PE2G> Piet0r: yes, the parachute is looking good
[13:18] <astrobiologist> Anybody know what that is?
[13:18] <astrobiologist> Craag I'll keep it turned on through the day. I'm heading over to Winchester by train later
[13:19] <Piet0r> Maybe it will float back to Utrecht
[13:19] <mattbrejza> fsphil: see if you can find a source for mirics msi001
[13:19] <Piet0r> Then I'll jump in my car :p
[13:19] <PE2G> 18.5 m/s at 22 km
[13:19] <astrobiologist> I might have more luck from my lab. That's fairly high up and I might be able to sneak a decent antenna on to the windowsill
[13:19] <craag> astrobiologist: Oh cool, listen out on 145.725
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[13:20] <craag> It's the repeater near Alton, hampshire
[13:20] <astrobiologist> Thanks craag, will do
[13:20] <craag> I can get into it here and am often on it on the commute
[13:20] <PE2G> Piet0r: at about 18 km, it will turn to the east again
[13:21] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist: there is a repeater in banstead on 70cm that has LoS over london
[13:21] <craag> You may not hear anyone, but you should get a morse ident every 10mins
[13:21] <Piet0r> @PE2G Yeah I saw the prediction
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[13:22] <craag> astrobiologist: Take a look on here, try out the output freqs for the ones nearest you: http://www.ukrepeater.net/
[13:24] <astrobiologist> Thanks craag. It reminds me of when I tried out CB
[13:24] <astrobiologist> Grand total of one conversation! It's in the basement somewhere
[13:28] <astrobiologist> Thanks mattbrejza, craag, I' heading for the train now :-)
[13:28] <fsphil> I've had one proper conversation on amateur bands
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[13:29] <fsphil> that's qutie enough for me
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[13:33] <craag> I chat on the local repeater on the way into work and do a HF contest occasionally.
[13:35] <craag> Oh and VHF NFD
[13:36] <craag> Would probably do HF NFD, but there's some random conference on the same day.
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[13:38] <ed__> i do not
[13:39] <ed__> i once listened to a repeater on the way into work
[13:39] <ed__> then i stopped
[13:39] <ed__> because
[13:39] <ed__> well, the people on radio 4 have more interesting conversations
[13:39] <PE2G> Piet0r: This will be a landing somewhere east of Stroe
[13:41] <craag> ed__: They are people I know from uni and local clubs, so there's a good amount to talk about.
[13:42] <Piet0r> I see it on the map :)
[13:42] <craag> I know well that some conversation where people are talking for the heck of it are mind-numbing.
[13:42] <Piet0r> Which sucks up a lot of memory on my PC btw ..
[13:42] <ed__> yes. i think i had the latter
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[13:43] <PE2G> Piet0r: That's a known issue whem there are so many balloons up.
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[13:45] <Piet0r> There are some solutions for that
[13:45] <Piet0r> Like a tileserver, or only loading markers that are visible
[13:45] <craag> ed__: Annoyingly common. If I'm bored I'll jump in and try to liven things up, they often don't like it though!
[13:45] <Piet0r> Or maybe only loading the last 20 markers or so
[13:45] <ed__> make monkey noises or something
[13:46] <craag> Not that, although there are people who do.
[13:46] <Piet0r> I made a tileserver for my own GPS-tracking application
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[13:46] <PE2G> Piet0r: They should implement that
[13:46] <Piet0r> Send them an e-mail ;)
[13:47] <craag> What map is this that has enough objects to freeze up a map?
[13:47] <PE2G> The wind below 6000 m is weaker now than during ascent
[13:48] <Piet0r> This map: http://sondetracker.radiosonda.sk/v2/index.html
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[13:48] <Willdude123> I urgently need an API to play with
[13:48] <Piet0r> They should also give the most current marker another colour :p
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[13:48] <Willdude123> I've had that strange feeling.
[13:49] <Piet0r> @Willdude123 That sounds kind of dirty
[13:49] <Willdude123> Does anyone else get that where they suddenly think 'I need a cool API to play with'?
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[13:49] <Willdude123> I need to satisfy my desire for a good api
[13:50] <Willdude123> Akismet looks half decent
[13:50] <Willdude123> +
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[13:51] <Willdude123> Ooh temboo looks cool
[13:51] <craag> Piet0r: Yeah that needs a re-write, it's re-rendering popups on every load :|
[13:51] <Piet0r> @craag Yes very annoying
[13:51] <craag> Plus it's only 200px high for me!
[13:52] <craag> I had similar issues with dxspot.tv
[13:52] <craag> But _mostly_ solved now
[13:53] <craag> Really need a client-side db and a good way of syncing it.
[13:54] <craag> But everyone wants support for IE7, so finding stuff that works is difficult!
[13:54] <Randomskk> just don't support ie7 >_>
[13:57] <craag> yeah... these are radio hams we're talking about..
[13:57] <Randomskk> :(
[13:58] <Randomskk> you'd think for being so keen about ham radio they might not be falling over themselves to use ie7
[13:58] <Randomskk> oh well
[13:58] <Randomskk> given the state of most ham websites, not surprising
[13:58] <craag> There's also those that want to watch it at work
[13:58] <craag> And are locked to ancient versions of IE
[13:59] <Randomskk> I get less and less convinced by that argument daily
[13:59] <Randomskk> but I guess maybe it is still valid for now
[13:59] <craag> Yeah, I was warned not to make the website 'too flashy' incase it scared them off! Hence the static layout and white background..
[13:59] <Randomskk> but I mean, windows XP totally ends all support in what, a few days
[13:59] <Randomskk> if not already
[13:59] <Randomskk> anything after that should be no IE8 or 9 by now really
[13:59] <Randomskk> so, well. one day. I can dream.
[14:00] <Willdude123> I need a cool API to play with. Facebook's one will do.
[14:00] <ed__> ham sites are legend
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[14:01] <fsphil> the geocities generation that never grew up
[14:01] <craag> I figured I get people using it, then build a better-featured page that required a modern browser, then people can use what they want (and hopefully will upgrade to try the new one).
[14:04] <Willdude123> I think someone should fly a payload with a thermal printer on
[14:04] <Willdude123> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/thermal-printer-p-695.html
[14:05] <Willdude123> 50km rated head, you could print out telemetry so god can read it
[14:05] <fsphil> leave a trail of printouts giving position?
[14:05] <fsphil> that's as bad as doing a high altitude painting
[14:06] <Willdude123> Not as bad as the mouse idea.
[14:06] <fsphil> don't think I wanna know
[14:06] <Willdude123> (putting a mouse in a spacesuit (pressurized) and doing something like daveake's ted bull.
[14:06] <fsphil> yep, don't wanna know
[14:07] <Willdude123> I want one of those though
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[14:08] <Piet0r> @PE2G Is there another site where I can follow the KNMI-sonde? Because the balloon is hovering around and I can't tell which point is the most current ..
[14:08] <PE2G> It landed in what seems a military training area. Which is bad.
[14:08] <Piet0r> :/
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[14:09] <PE2G> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.19452+5.72108 ( at 184 m pressure alt)
[14:09] <ed__> that has happened in the UK before
[14:09] <PE2G> Lost it there.
[14:09] <PE2G> There is someone trying to get into that area.
[14:10] <Piet0r> Damn new Google Maps doesn't understand that URL ..
[14:10] <PE2G> Last positions: http://s7.postimg.org/mp6iz397f/Screen1032.jpg
[14:11] <PE2G> You can see the sonde swinging below the parachute
[14:11] <x-f> how long was the string then..
[14:11] <mattbrejza> what sampling freq is that?
[14:12] <PE2G> 1 second
[14:12] <PE2G> 1 Hz
[14:13] <mattbrejza> hmm
[14:13] <Willdude123> Or one with an LCD screen on. Saying (scrolling) "THIS IS NOT A BOMB. DONT YOU DARE CALL THE POLICE. CALL 07850 239465"
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[14:16] <PE2G> x-f: the line usually is about 30m for O3 sondes
[14:17] <Willdude123> In countries where amateur radio is allowed on a payload, have people txed live tv?
[14:18] <craag> Willdude123: yes
[14:18] <craag> Mostly Analog FM ATV
[14:18] <Piet0r> Here in the Netherlands they have an annual "ballonvossenjacht"
[14:18] <Willdude123> craag, does it work well?
[14:18] <craag> Willdude123: It does!
[14:18] <Piet0r> People chase a HAB which also transmits a live videofeed
[14:19] <bertrik> Willdude123: if it has wires (antennas) sticking out, it fits the common perception of "bomb"
[14:19] <Willdude123> How come I've never heard of it before?
[14:19] <Willdude123> :)
[14:19] <Piet0r> The one who finds it first is the winner of the ballonvossenjacht :)
[14:20] <Piet0r> They use very cool antennas like these: https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/249780_352700324815832_2139250903_n.jpg
[14:21] <Piet0r> A so called Skew-Planar Wheel antenna
[14:21] <PE2G> http://bit.ly/1dw7u4r
[14:22] <craag> There's been a few people using those kind of antennas here for mobile DATV
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[14:22] <Willdude123> Hi daveake
[14:23] <craag> Nice impedance plot for such a complex antenna :)
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[14:29] <Laurenceb> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4114897&cid=44640721
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[14:52] <Piet0r> @PE2G Any news from the sonde-chaser?
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[15:10] <PE2G> Piet0r: Not yet. He's still trying to get into the area.
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[15:15] <Willdude123> Oh wow I didn't realize Bradley (Chelsea ) Manning was transexual
[15:16] <mattbrejza> i didnt think hes physically changed yet?
[15:17] <Willdude123> Her lawyers are trying to get her hormone therapy and possible reassignment surgery.
[15:20] <ed__> well, sometimes i think i'd like to experiment with, for example, being bald
[15:20] <ed__> but only if i didn't have to see anyone for a few months just incase the results were stupid
[15:20] <ed__> so
[15:21] <Willdude123> Uhuh
[15:22] <Randomskk> uhm
[15:22] <Randomskk> because jail is definitely where you want to come out?
[15:22] <Randomskk> given as she's got years of history, plus the army medical inspection said she had gender dysmorphia, probably not just thinking now would be a fun time to experiment
[15:23] <Joel_re> I think its something they are trying to stick on him
[15:23] <Randomskk> her*
[15:23] <Randomskk> you think she didn't write the letter?
[15:23] <Joel_re> why would someone going to jail say stuff like that
[15:23] <mattbrejza> yet again this gif becomes relevent http://i2.wp.com/smutbookclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/hot-dog-face.gif
[15:23] <Joel_re> when he/shes going to get A**f**ked pretty badly anyway
[15:23] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: http://hot-dog-legs.tumblr.com/
[15:24] <Willdude123> A C of E in a Catholic School with very conservative relatives would probably be a worse place. I can't imagine what it'd be like doing that if I was homosexual.
[15:24] <Randomskk> yea I don't imagine that would be a hugely supportive environment either
[15:25] <Joel_re> ok dude, so you want to be a woman
[15:25] <Joel_re> ""
[15:25] <Joel_re> "get over here"
[15:25] <Joel_re> :\
[15:26] <Joel_re> just feels like hes not saying it in a clear mind
[15:26] <Willdude123> I think he is.
[15:26] <Randomskk> I don't think we're really in a position to make assumptions on her state of mind. doesn't make the letter any less legitimate
[15:27] <Joel_re> Randomskk: agreed, but how many criminals are allowed sex change before being jailed
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[15:28] <Joel_re> why this exception
[15:28] <Randomskk> I really don't know, for US jails. I don't think she's asking for gender reassignment though, just hormone therapy, and regardless of whether that's common, perhaps they should be allowing it
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[15:31] <Laurenceb> he she,,, it
[15:31] <Laurenceb> think ill stick to he
[15:33] <Willdude123> I think instead of pardoning the turkey, they should do pardon the US army private.
[15:42] <Willdude123> Is it me or is almost every part of the USes handling of this case perverted?
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> To be fair - you've pretty much got to throw the book at him.
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise, the concept of information security just falls over.
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> if he diddn't know he was going to jail for a long time if found out he was very, very naive.
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[15:45] <KF5WYX> stupit bouncer isn't keeping me signed in and logging since I changed my nick *grumbles* <- factoid - Anything interesting happening?
[15:46] <craag> In Eagle - I'm trying to route on one layer, but because the airwires are on another layer, it keeps switching when I click. How do I stop it?
[15:47] <craag> KF5WYX: Nothing of interest really. Busy weekend for flights in the UK though!
[15:47] <Willdude123> KF5WYX, ZNC bouncers should keep you logged in despite your nick changes.
[15:47] <Willdude123> Try using <username>:<password> as the server password
[15:49] <Willdude123> It's difficult to know what to think. When you think they discharged over 13k people because of DADT violations, you realize how far behind they are.
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[15:51] <KF5WYX> Willdude123 - thanks, I did also setup a new user on the znc server and remove the old one, so I likely upset some setting. At work right now, but I'll fiddle with it when I get home.
[15:52] <Willdude123> KF5WYX, are you using the web interface setup?
[15:52] <KF5WYX> craag - I've been suprised to see the number of Europe flights appearing on the tracker too, Germany, Poland, etc.
[15:52] <KF5WYX> Willdude123 - yes
[15:53] <KF5WYX> I think the buffer level was set to zero, could have been the issue.
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[16:05] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon
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[16:21] <KF5WYX> Morning chrisstubbs
[16:27] Babs____ (4e2898f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.40.152.246) joined #highaltitude.
[16:28] <Babs____> Afternoon.
[16:28] <Babs____> Wow. I have even more ____ after my name than usual this afternoon
[16:29] <chrisstubbs> lol
[16:29] <arko> just one more _ and it's longer than your name
[16:30] <Babs____> and how they work
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[16:30] <Babs____> you're laughing chrisstubbs, all it does for me is provide a daily reminder to everyone on here of my lack of knowledge of chat rooms
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Planning a latex pico for Saturday midday btw
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> will sort details out tonight hopefully
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, ^^
[16:32] <arko> going for a floater?
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> Nah planning to recover
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> just a board/code test
[16:32] <arko> cool
[16:32] <Babs____> arko - less of the p taking, or we will play a game in the pub after the conf that will be primarily putting British place names in front of you and getting you to read them out loud
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> and testing some new 35g balloons
[16:32] <arko> Babs___: i would be honored
[16:33] <Babs____> ahhh, Loughborough etc.
[16:33] <Babs____> Looger Berooger?
[16:33] <arko> haha
[16:33] <Randomskk> to be fair they stole most of our place names anyway
[16:33] <arko> ok im going to admit it now
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[16:33] <arko> i was calling it Green-witch until someone corrected me
[16:34] <arko> he even told me "i just saved you a big embarresment"
[16:34] <arko> but now i know it's "grin-ich"
[16:34] <arko> which is nothing like how it looks
[16:34] <Randomskk> more like gren-ich
[16:34] <arko> oh
[16:34] <Babs____> tbf La Jolla is just as bad for us
[16:34] <arko> gren
[16:35] <arko> gotcha
[16:35] <arko> haha
[16:35] <arko> La Joe-La
[16:35] <Babs____> grin-ich is how South Africans say it
[16:35] <arko> La Hoy-ya is the proper way
[16:35] <arko> Babs____: yah man
[16:35] <Randomskk> the double L gets me every time
[16:36] <arko> the only way i know is that california was once mexico so everything here has mexican names
[16:37] <arko> and the mexican population will correct you
[16:37] <Randomskk> I still say tort-il-luh
[16:37] <arko> hahaha
[16:37] <arko> tor-tee-ah
[16:37] <Randomskk> I know, I know :P
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[16:37] <arko> america is actually pronounced murica here
[16:37] <Randomskk> haha
[16:38] <arko> california law now
[16:38] <wrea> lol
[16:38] <arko> our stateflag is actually an innout burger
[16:38] <arko> i would be all for that btw
[16:38] <Babs____> we should come and claim it back now you have sorted out the subprime crisis. Rename New York as Chittingfield on Sea or something.
[16:39] <arko> hahaha
[16:39] <arko> this is like that episode of south park where the british invade again
[16:40] <arko> "who's americas greatest enemy?" "the middle east?" "before them" "the germans?" "before them" "the germans again?" "before them" "you're not sayin.." *cut to old school british sail boats*
[16:41] <arko> i like how we left you guys and then became you guys
[16:41] <arko> nice job team
[16:41] <Babs____> don't beat yourself up, you guys invented elasticated waistband jeans and teflon
[16:41] <arko> true
[16:41] <Babs____> (not to be used together, sort of defeats the object)
[16:42] <arko> you guys invented top gear and deleting peoples hard drives at LHR
[16:42] <arko> evens out
[16:42] <arko> oh and sherlock
[16:42] <arko> so you guys are in the green
[16:43] <Babs____> you do know sherlock is only partly based on fact right?
[16:43] <arko> well yeah
[16:43] <Babs____> snigger
[16:43] <arko> doesn't everyone?
[16:43] <arko> excuse me?
[16:44] <arko> 1. a smothered or half-suppressed laugh.
[16:44] <arko> ah
[16:44] <Babs____> arko, I met you once so I think i can ask you this
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[16:44] <arko> it's actually difficult to offend me
[16:44] <Babs____> is anyone using you as an electronics mule to bring stuff over from the states?
[16:44] <arko> hahaha
[16:45] <arko> um
[16:45] <arko> i dont think so
[16:45] <chrisstubbs> This is a good idea ^^
[16:45] <chrisstubbs> Stock up on your way over hand have a stall at the conf
[16:45] <arko> This is how I get denied entry ^^
[16:45] <Babs____> that would be awesome, checking in at LA with a suitcase full of random devices that have export prohibitions on them
[16:45] <chrisstubbs> *and
[16:45] <arko> Babs____: i dont even want to imagine
[16:46] <Babs____> ermmm, what exactly do you need 300 IMUs and 300 disabled GPSs for Mr Arko?
[16:46] <Babs____> I'll get you a Russian taxi driver to meet you at Heathrow to really get them going
[16:46] <arko> hahahaha
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> daveake, Do you have a time planned in mind for your saturday launch?
[16:52] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: any news on tomorrow?
[16:52] <chrisstubbs> There is going to be a LOT of payloads up. NORB, PAVA, 2 more PAVA's, babbage x2 and now possibly cheapo
[16:52] <cm13g09> ah right
[16:52] <daveake> morning
[16:52] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, friday looks wet (sea bound not raining)
[16:52] <cm13g09> so plenty of things to distract me from packing for Bristol :P
[16:52] <cm13g09> ah right
[16:52] <chrisstubbs> Well it will probably rain
[16:53] <chrisstubbs> saturday midday looks more promising im afraid
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[16:53] <chrisstubbs> We seem to have unintentionally beaten the balloon fiesta
[16:53] <daveake> lol
[16:54] <chrisstubbs> Hi dave
[16:54] <daveake> hi
[16:54] <Babs____> on the subject of the balloon fiesta
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> Darn dinnertime, are you going to be launching morning/afternoon daveake?
[16:55] <Babs____> arko, can you bring some duct tape over when you come? i anticipate a UK wide shortage of the stuff soon http://balloonnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/l4.jpg
[16:55] <daveake> morning
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> oh jesus
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> oh sorry missed that, cheers
[16:55] <chrisstubbs> brb
[16:56] <arko> damn Babs____ thats a lot of duct tape
[16:56] <daveake> That needs some http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/justin-bieber-duck-tape.jpg
[16:57] <bertrik> :D
[16:57] <Babs____> arko - it is a LOT of duct tape
[16:57] <arko> half the mass at least
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[16:58] <Babs____> daveake - just exactly under what circumstances were you typing "duct tape" AND "Justin Bieber" into google?
[16:58] <Babs____> or should i not ask
[16:58] <daveake> I saw some in Walmart last yeat
[16:58] <daveake> year
[16:58] <Babs____> did you buy any?
[16:58] <daveake> No, Upu said he was happy with pink
[16:59] <Babs____> i never thought pink duct tape could be outcamped, but there it is
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[16:59] <arko> i had my first successful hab after i decided to copy Upu and color it pink
[17:00] <arko> since then, Upink or Violently Hot Pink
[17:00] <arko> has been my favorite color
[17:00] <arko> err
[17:00] <arko> has been my favourite colour
[17:00] <Babs____> colour
[17:00] <arko> :)
[17:00] <Babs____> :-)
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[17:01] <arko> alrighty, coffee time!
[17:03] IRC_ukhas (~astrobiol@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust50.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:03] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[17:03] <astrobiologist> So I'm in Winchester now
[17:03] <astrobiologist> Monitoring 145.725 and also scanning 144-146
[17:03] Action: cm13g09 will be missing all this weekend's flights then!
[17:03] <astrobiologist> Not a peep
[17:04] <astrobiologist> I'd say I'm equidistant from the Chichester and Andover repeaters
[17:04] <astrobiologist> What might else might I'd expect to hear? Is there just nobody about or is it a fairly c--- scanner?
[17:05] <astrobiologist> Would like to know for ham and also hab tracking
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[17:06] <mfa298_> astrobiologist: I think I've done reasonably distances on FM with my F7E, the bands can be pretty dead at times though.
[17:07] <astrobiologist> Mfa298 I'm using the supplied helical antenna
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[17:07] <astrobiologist> Of course I'll get a yagi or suchlike soon
[17:07] <astrobiologist> But for portability I'd like to know what I can find with the helical antenna alone
[17:08] <mfa298_> if you listen to a repeater output for ~15 minutes you should hear it ident (usually it's callsign in morse and sometimes some speech)
[17:08] <astrobiologist> Battery life for scanning alone seems outstanding though - still going strong after 7 hours or so with the charge it had from when I opened the parcel
[17:09] <astrobiologist> Mfa298 craag said 145.725 was the local repeater
[17:09] <astrobiologist> But not a peep
[17:09] <mfa298_> that sounds right.
[17:10] <mfa298_> Im not in the area at the moment so can't check what activity there is currently
[17:11] <LazyLeopard> astrobiologist: There are repeater coverage maps and other such stuff on http://www.ukrepeater.net/index.html
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[17:13] <astrobiologist> Thanks LazyLeopard
[17:14] <rogerponts> Hi, one question to connect a HAB amplifier and this dongle https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=288 what I need? and which coaxial cable I need to buy ?
[17:14] <PB0NER> be aware that 2m is not only FM
[17:15] <PB0NER> USB too, and people are using yagi's for TX too
[17:15] <PB0NER> so if you are not in the path, you might nog be able to hear it
[17:17] <PB0NER> rogerponts, the connector on the dongle is MCX
[17:17] <mikestir> rogerponts: https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=289 and https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=295
[17:17] <PB0NER> to mee it seems the MCX - SMA cable is supplied
[17:18] <mikestir> he does a bundle I think, but the dongles I bought didn't come with one
[17:19] <rogerponts> the first one the MCX-SMA comes with the https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=288
[17:19] <mikestir> sure. you only need the back to back SMA then, because the hab amp output is SMA female as well
[17:19] <PB0NER> that is what I just said :-)
[17:19] <rogerponts> I mean the coaxial cable to connect the HAB amplifier with my homemade yagi antenna
[17:20] <PB0NER> right, what is the connector on your antenna?
[17:20] <PB0NER> it would be SMA to whatever you used on your antenna
[17:21] <rogerponts> well I'd have to solder it like this: http://makezine.com/projects/homemade-yagi-antenna/
[17:21] <PB0NER> keep in mind that you would better install the HAB amplifier as colse to your antenna as possible
[17:21] <PB0NER> otherwise it would amplyfy cable noise too
[17:22] <ed__> ^^^
[17:23] <PB0NER> hmm intersting
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[17:28] <PB0NER> so you would need an SMA male to nothing at the amp input end
[17:29] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p548892AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:29] <PB0NER> Hi
[17:30] LeoBodnar (5685d3d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.133.211.209) left irc:
[17:30] <PB0NER> I'm not really sure if you can find SMA-Male to nothing, but you can get a cheap one and cut off the connector
[17:31] <PB0NER> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=295 this one will do for the dongle
[17:32] <PB0NER> cosy cave does not seem to provide any SMA cables
[17:33] <PB0NER> you'll need at the other end
[17:34] <PB0NER> or you can go to BNC and use an old BNC cable you cut: https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=291
[17:35] <rogerponts> ok thanks
[17:36] <PB0NER> Personally I do not like all those adapters... and I would solder the cable straight to the HABAMP
[17:36] Babs___ (~babs@212.183.128.76) joined #highaltitude.
[17:37] <PB0NER> or make the proper cables (I do have the equipment for that... that helps)
[17:39] <PB0NER> every adapter introduces signal loss
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[17:42] <PB0NER> and possible unwanted disconnects, I consider adapters handy for bench tests, but when it works I make proper length cables with the right connectors
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[17:42] <ibanezmatt13> Evening
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[17:42] <PB0NER> he ibanezmatt13
[17:42] <PB0NER> he=hi
[17:43] <ibanezmatt13> hai :)
[17:44] <Babs___> Congrats ibanezmatt13 ! Saw your results
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks Babs___ ! :)
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking into writing a Python script that reads telemetry from dl-fldigi, not Habitat. I believe dl-fldigi can automatically write the data to a file. Could somebody tell me a little more about this?
[17:44] <Babs___> It will be just the same in 2 years for your a levels
[17:44] <Babs___> Only at this equivalent time of the day you will be drunk
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> haha, hope so :)
[17:45] <ed__> ibanezmatt13, it can log data
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> which results?
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> GCSE Lunar_Lander
[17:45] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: I'd probably use rpc because having dl-fldigi write to a file while you read from it can get messy, but uhm, you just turn on logging in dl-fldigi settings and it will log to a file in your local dl-fldigi folder
[17:45] <Randomskk> why not use habitat, though?
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> what is it?
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> 4 A*s, 4 As Lunar
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[17:46] <Babs___> I took my GCSEs pre * grades
[17:46] <Randomskk> oh nice, well done ibanezmatt13 :)
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks :)
[17:46] <Babs___> Therefore I can assume all my As were A*s
[17:46] <daveake> I took mine pre GCSE :p
[17:46] <daveake> Well done ibanezmatt13 :)
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks Dave
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, that sounds cool, still don't know what GCSE is
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> but congrats
[17:46] <Babs___> Did you have exams working in the Mills daveake ?
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> General Certificate of secondary education Lunar_Lander, o levels basically
[17:47] <Babs___> ;-)
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I've already got something using Habitat, I want to try something with dl-fldigi for a backup.
[17:47] <Randomskk> fair enough
[17:47] <ed__> actually i can't find the logging option
[17:47] <ed__> who knows
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> ed__, eroomde right?
[17:48] <ed__> no
[17:48] <ed__> i don't know an eroomde
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, ah cool
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> congratulations :)
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> I thought you were another Ed, sorry :)
[17:49] <ed__> it's a common christian name
[17:49] <Randomskk> that other ed's particular brand of snark is less common
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> So in dl-fldigi, I go to Misc/ text io, then tick the box
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[17:49] <x-f> ed__, Misc -> Text i/o, but i can't find the logfile
[17:49] <x-f> yea
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> Nor can I
[17:49] <Randomskk> it's like .dl-fldigi/something in linux
[17:50] <x-f> i'm looking there :/
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> aha, textout.txt
[17:50] <Randomskk> maybe
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> hover over the button
[17:50] <Randomskk> for me ~/.dl-fldigi/logs/
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, hover over the writing next to the tick box
[17:50] <Randomskk> if it works then go for it
[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> So the file should be in the dlfldigi folder?
[17:51] <x-f> mine doesn't create that file not in the main folder, nor ./logs :|
[17:51] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[17:52] <x-f> ok, found it in ./talk
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> talk?
[17:52] <x-f> ~/.dl-fldigi/talk
[17:52] <ibanezmatt13> windows?
[17:53] <x-f> OS X
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13> I only have 4 files in my dl directory
[17:53] <craag> ls
[17:53] <craag> :/
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[17:55] <x-f> i see what you tried to do there, craag :)
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> This textout file is a bit naf
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> It's just dumped a load of stuff into a file. Does it not do it line by line?
[17:56] <chrisstubbs> Hi ibanezmatt13
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> HI cHRIS
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:57] <chrisstubbs> I might be joining in on the fun on saturday
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> Tracking?
[17:57] <chrisstubbs> need to figure out what frequencies are free
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[17:57] <chrisstubbs> cheapo 8
[17:57] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, if you don't see lines there it might be your editor doesn't understand just "\n", on windows it usually expects "\n\r"
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[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> x-f: I guess I can't change that
[17:57] <x-f> i mean, you have lines there
[17:57] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, open it in wordpad
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> Ok
[17:58] <chrisstubbs> seems to understand linuxy newline files better
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> I deleted the content of the file, restarted dl, and now it's empty
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait, now there's stuff
[18:00] <fsphil> weirdly on c# "\n" is the unix-style newline
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> Ok so is the text file export business the only way I can get it out of dl without using Habitat?
[18:00] <Randomskk> fsphil: as opposed to..?
[18:01] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: I think the rpc interface lets you do that too
[18:01] <Randomskk> but I don't remember any details
[18:01] <fsphil> Randomskk: the last time I used C on windows it converted \n to \n\r
[18:01] <Randomskk> oh I see what you mean
[18:01] <Randomskk> huh
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, I'll try just using a text file for now. If it's no good I'll look into it
[18:01] <fsphil> but this was some time ago
[18:01] <Randomskk> newlines not being the same is so stupid
[18:01] <Randomskk> so is / and \ for path separation
[18:02] <Randomskk> honestly
[18:02] <craag> ibanezmatt13: What are you wanting to do with it?
[18:02] <fsphil> windows will accept the / too so I just stick with that
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> craag: I want to have a python program to run on the ground so that when it reaches a certain altitude, it sends me an email. But I've already got it working with Habitat and I'd like to try having a backup
[18:03] <ed__> i went to see a radar recently
[18:03] <ed__> used for space debris
[18:03] <ed__> but it was borrowed from a navy ship
[18:03] <fsphil> eroomde would have loved that
[18:03] <arko> milimeter radar?
[18:03] <ed__> it was full of safety interlocks, sodium hexaflouride coolests systems, laser proximities etc
[18:03] <arko> oh snap
[18:04] <ed__> but the cool thing on it was a switch
[18:04] <ed__> with two poles
[18:04] <ed__> labelled 'War' and 'Peace'
[18:04] <Randomskk> eroomde would definitely have loved that
[18:04] <fsphil> hah
[18:04] <Randomskk> did you get a photo
[18:04] <Randomskk> or was this a no-cameras affair
[18:04] <ed__> and in 'War' mode it totally shutdown all the safety interlocks
[18:04] <ed__> eg temperature shutdown
[18:04] <ed__> coolant pressure low
[18:04] <ed__> etc
[18:04] <Randomskk> haha
[18:04] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Ah ok. I asked as I have some php scripts somewhere for batch-processing dlfligi text for analysing test runs, but not what you're after.
[18:04] <ed__> 'just f-king work'
[18:04] <Randomskk> just what you want in a war
[18:04] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, Habitat would be more reliable, because you have lot more listeners, and anyway - somebody will need to adjust your ground radio, because the transmitter will likely drift in frequency
[18:05] <ed__> that is a good analogy there for flight code
[18:05] <ed__> vs debug code
[18:05] <fsphil> war/peace jumper
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> x-f: I'm fully aware of that, but my Dad wants it as a backup and I'd like to try it for the heck of it :)
[18:05] <ed__> no photo
[18:05] <arko> aww
[18:05] <craag> fsphil: somebody would lose the jumper..
[18:05] <craag> Then where would we be..
[18:06] <Babs___> ed__: Btw ___ are very on trend at the moment
[18:06] <fsphil> eek
[18:06] <ed__> i know
[18:06] <Babs___> You will get on well here
[18:06] Nick change: craag -> __________
[18:06] <Babs___> Unlike other ed eroomde , who is stuck in the past with his ___ deficiency
[18:07] <ed__> eroomde is an odd surname
[18:07] Action: __________ is leading the way..
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> read it backwards ed__
[18:07] <ed__> edmoore
[18:07] <ed__> i see
[18:07] Action: fsphil fills in the blank
[18:07] Nick change: __________ -> craag
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[18:07] <arko> fsphil: i tried writing on my monitor but the lines keep moving up everytime someone says something
[18:08] <fsphil> yea you'd have to keep tipex'ing it out as it moves
[18:08] <Babs___> Babsfactoftheday
[18:08] <Babs___> Mike Nesmith's Mother off the monkees invented tipex
[18:09] <fsphil> the who?
[18:09] <arko> whats tipex?
[18:09] <ed__> it's star shone brightly
[18:09] <ed__> but has now set
[18:09] <Babs___> Fsphil - don't try and associate yourself with the young folks
[18:09] <daveake> I looked that up on wikipedia, and now I'm a believer
[18:09] <arko> ohh white out
[18:09] <ed__> no that's when you smoke too buch naughty cigarette
[18:10] <arko> lol wut
[18:10] <Babs___> Transsexuals and punnage, another on topic day on #highaltitude
[18:10] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:11] <fsphil> I don't know much music from before 1990
[18:11] Action: arko puts on ace of base
[18:11] <Babs___> What about Riverdance fsphil ?
[18:11] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[18:11] <fsphil> not seen it
[18:11] <fsphil> though I hear it's quite good
[18:12] <Babs___> It was only recently that i found that Gaelic wasn't an irish lesbian
[18:12] <chrisstubbs> daveake, have you changed from .650 and .075 now?
[18:12] <daveake> not yet
[18:12] <chrisstubbs> Okay, do you know what you are going to go for/
[18:13] <daveake> Well I have .200 and .250 so I can change either/both to those
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm writing a script to read this text file from dl-fldigi and I'm at the point where I readline(). Now, the idea is that I have a function to check if the line contains a certain word. Is there a way in Python I can check to see if the variable contains the word I want?
[18:13] <chrisstubbs> Okay not a problem for me, just ibanezmatt13 on .650
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[18:14] <chrisstubbs> Looks like I am clear on .300 then :)
[18:17] <daveake> The skies will be alive with the sound of rtty
[18:18] <fsphil> The Sound of Modems
[18:18] <mattbrejza> i think ill have the telly turned up from 1pm this weekend rather than the radio
[18:19] <mattbrejza> (F1 @ spa)
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> this is kind of not working: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6310888
[18:21] <fsphil> hehe, back slashes
[18:21] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: probably just use 'r' not 'rb'
[18:21] <Randomskk> and don't use line = f.readline()
[18:21] <Randomskk> that's redundant
[18:21] <Randomskk> you are already reading all the lines in the for line in f
[18:21] <fsphil> for line in f, then f.readline() -- is that right?
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, course not
[18:22] <Randomskk> and don't use files like that
[18:22] <Randomskk> you've forgotten to close it
[18:22] <Randomskk> with open(text_file_path, 'r') as f:
[18:22] <Randomskk> for line in f:
[18:22] <Randomskk> if "Hello" in line:
[18:22] <Randomskk> print "Hello is in the line"
[18:22] <Randomskk> break (if you want? probably not for your thing)
[18:23] <Randomskk> (as it'l read the first line first, so the most recentl altitude will be last)
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I think I'd have got there eventually :) Thank you
[18:23] <Randomskk> yup I'm sure
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[18:23] <Randomskk> it all just comes from experience
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah :)
[18:24] <Randomskk> brb dinner
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[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I think the error has something to do with double slashes somehow :)
[18:26] <fsphil> or the lack of
[18:26] <fsphil> backslash is an escape sequence
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> ah..
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> what should I change fsphil? Should I use the other type of back slash :)
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> forward slash :)
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[18:28] <fsphil> I'd just use a forward slash
[18:28] <fsphil> windows will take it
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[18:28] <fsphil> otherwise a \\
[18:28] <fsphil> which just looks ugly
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> thanks, it's working :)
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[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: I think the problem I have is that the text file is of course being written to by dlfldigi constantly
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> So, trying to read the file at the same time may be an issue
[18:34] <fsphil> when you've finished reading it, make a note of the file position
[18:34] <fsphil> then open the file again and skip to that
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[18:35] <fsphil> with a short delay just to avoid spinning in a loop too quickly
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> ok, what about conflict between dl opening it at the same tikme?
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[18:35] <fsphil> if you only open it for reading it shouldn't matter
[18:35] <fsphil> though windows might be different
[18:35] <fsphil> should be fine
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> just going home from the grandparents, see you soon
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[18:38] <Astrobiologist3> Am I online or not? A bit confused
[18:39] <Astrobiologist3> Ah there's three of me. Sorry, will reset offending blackberry and ipad in a mo
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[18:50] <Willdude123> Hi
[18:55] <Willdude123> Upu do you have the proffesional version of eagle? It looks really expensive
[18:56] <tweetBot> @willdude567: 75% of the way there with the flight breakout board. A lot is wrong with the design- hoping to fix at some point. #ukhas
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[19:02] <craag> The professional version gets you nothing but the extra board size and layers afaik
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[19:05] <craag> Another bit of time burnt on my PCB, I think I'm almost there: http://i.imgur.com/jn1dKoB.png
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[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, bad news. Dl-fldigi doesn't recognise the /n caharcter. In the file, everything is on one line :(
[19:05] <daveake> You need \n
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> Well, it comes through in dl-fldigi line by line, but not in the text file
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I meant daveake,
[19:07] <mattbrejza> are you opening in notepad by any chance?
[19:07] <daveake> The text file will be exactly the same as received
[19:07] <daveake> The problem is you're using a stupid editor
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> opening in notepad to check but opening in python really
[19:07] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: python will split it by line if \n is there
[19:07] <Randomskk> and fl-dlgi should
[19:07] <Randomskk> but also
[19:07] <Randomskk> dl-fldigi has an auto \r\n option
[19:08] <Randomskk> that will insert the \r
[19:08] <tweetBot> @HabduinoProject: Uk launch on Saturday weather permitting ! 434.550 see http://t.co/OVcqvYhkmX. #ukhas
[19:08] <Randomskk> try opening it in wordpad instead of ntoepad tho
[19:08] <Randomskk> (or python)
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks :)
[19:08] <Randomskk> for python on windows you might need to tell it to use \n not \r\n
[19:08] <Randomskk> also if you're still using binary mode it won't split by lines
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah right#
[19:09] <mfa298_> ibanezmatt13: if you want a real text editor for windows you can get gvim for windows, or others prefer notepad++
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I've got notepad++, I should use that
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[19:23] <S_Mark> ping Steve_2E0VET
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ok so here's what I got Randomskk, fsphil: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6310888
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> It works
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> But is it efficient enough for what I want to do?
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> Reliable I mean
[19:24] <Randomskk> uhm
[19:24] <Steve_2E0VET> hi mark
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'm using this to send a tweet so I don't want it to tweet at the incorrect time
[19:24] <Randomskk> I thought you were trying to get altitude
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> I am, but my payload isn't at altitude at the moment so no good for testing :)
[19:24] <Randomskk> you don't need f.close() - the whole point of the with block is that it closes the file for you
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that's handy
[19:25] <Randomskk> instead of the whole thing with initialised, just break when you detect what you want
[19:25] <Randomskk> oh
[19:25] <Randomskk> no don't
[19:25] <Randomskk> that'l of course just break out of the for loop
[19:25] <Randomskk> and you already do that
[19:25] <Randomskk> fine
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that was my problem so I added that :)
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> Good stuff, thanks Randomskk
[19:26] <Randomskk> initialised is a slightly odd choice of word, compared to 'detected' or something, but it's fine
[19:26] <Randomskk> that should be ok
[19:26] <Randomskk> parsing altitudes out reliably will be harder.
[19:26] <Randomskk> checksums etc
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> Yea, I never pick good variable names, though I should
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> I've got something in mind Randomskk, thanks for the help
[19:27] <Randomskk> cool ok
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> Another plan I had in mind was the triggering of a URL. Gonna look into it
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> A URL that does something when activated, just wondering how I would do that in python
[19:29] <Randomskk> ?
[19:29] <Willdude123> What do you mean?
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> Well, you know like when you have to confirm an account with somewhere and as soon as you click on the confirmation link, it does something on their server to say your account is confirmed
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> like that
[19:29] <Willdude123> Ah
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> I've got the URL, just need to trigger it
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> gonna look into it, not really sure what Python offers for things like that
[19:30] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 are you launching on Sat ?
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> Yep, 12:00 at Cambs
[19:30] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: I'm still not entirely clear what you mean
[19:30] <Randomskk> you want to run a web server?
[19:31] <Upu> ok
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> cleared it all with Dave. By the way, that backup tracker Upu, will it not conflict with anything?
[19:31] <Upu> Well mine but I'll fix that :)
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Imagine I have an activation URL, I just need to run it so that it loads up, that's it :)
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> Then end
[19:31] <Willdude123> Upu ping me when you're available to help with the PCB. I'm going up north tomorrow evening, so I'll probably won't be around much.
[19:32] <Upu> going to be next week Will
[19:32] <Upu> but will
[19:32] <Willdude123> Yes I won't get ridiculously frustrated.
[19:32] <Willdude123> And swear at you.
[19:32] <Willdude123> :0
[19:32] <Willdude123> *:)
[19:32] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: you want python to open a URL?
[19:32] <Randomskk> you've already done that with the habitat one
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[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> but with that one, I'm getting data from the URL
[19:33] <Randomskk> uh huh...
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> let me think how to explain this...
[19:33] <Randomskk> and you want to..
[19:34] <Randomskk> nothing forces you to _use_ the data, you can just ignore it
[19:34] <Willdude123> Upu I'm around for most of next week
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> ok. There is a server. If I were to load up said URL on my PC, it would do something on the server and that's all I need to do. Just like confirming an account with a verification link. I need to load said URL, without having to load in browser, ie in Python script :)
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> any clearer?
[19:35] <Randomskk> what do you think the difference is between your browser loading a web page and that python script you wrote getting data from habitat?
[19:35] <Randomskk> it's like, exactly identical
[19:35] <Randomskk> the browser just renders the data into a pretty picture while the python just uses it to get an altitude
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> really? (I have 0 knowledge on URLs and internet)
[19:35] <Randomskk> both are just connecting to the web server and going like "yo gimme this web page"
[19:36] <Randomskk> you can even try it yourself
[19:36] <Randomskk> open up cmd.exe
[19:36] <Randomskk> telnet google.com 80
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:36] <Randomskk> GET / HTTP/1.1
[19:36] <Randomskk> Host: google.com
[19:36] <Randomskk> press enter a couple times
[19:36] <mfa298_> Those sorts of links used GET requests, and the web script just looks at the url and generally pulls out stuff after the ?
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> didn't work Randomskk
[19:36] <Randomskk> you probably did it wrong
[19:36] <Randomskk> admittedly google.com will just redirect you to www.google.com
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[19:36] <mikestir> HTTP/1.1 requires Host:
[19:36] <Randomskk> I said host, mikestir
[19:36] <mikestir> oh yeah sorry
[19:37] <mikestir> i'm evidently blind!
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: So in Python, requests.get(myurl) will be just like loading up google.com?
[19:37] <Randomskk> yea.
[19:37] <mfa298_> ibanezmatt13: depending on which OS you're using you might need to install telnet (Win7/Win8 don't have it by default)
[19:37] <Randomskk> pretty much. I mean there are minor technical details but yes
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> Right, how can I test this out without activating the URL? hmm
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> in python
[19:39] <Randomskk> well you can't, by definition it's going to request the URL
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> I know what I can do
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> Create an account on something
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> Then get the account activation URL and put it in Python
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> See if it worked?
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> Would that work?
[19:40] <Randomskk> ...if you like?
[19:40] <Randomskk> I wouldn't bother really
[19:40] <Randomskk> I feel like you are vaguely skirting around what you're really trying to do, possibly to the extent that what you actually want is different enough that it won't work
[19:40] <Randomskk> also often account activation links specifically require you to still be logged in from when you signed up, i.e. the same browser session (typically identified by a cookie)
[19:40] <Randomskk> not always but it's common
[19:41] <Randomskk> but that's specific to account activation links
[19:41] <tweetBot> @daveake: @Raspberry_Pi Babbage flight now confirmed for Saturday morning, assuming no large changes in the predictions. #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
[19:41] <Randomskk> so e.g. having loaded the URL in python the web site would return a log in page and you have to log in before it activates the account
[19:41] <mfa298_> you also may not find out if it worked as you wont see the results in a browser
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah but, when I log in it will tell me if my account is activated
[19:41] <mfa298_> If you just wanted to test loading a url someone could probably give you a url to test against.
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> that would be good mfa298_
[19:42] <mfa298_> depends on how the activation system works.
[19:43] <Randomskk> if you just want a URL to load use http://requestb.in/
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> all I need to do is trigger the URL. If the server that hosts the URL can identify that the URL has been triggered, I'm done
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> Hard to explain :/
[19:43] <Randomskk> but again see my comment about what you're really trying to do
[19:43] <Randomskk> URLs can't be "triggered"
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[19:44] <Randomskk> you can make a GET or POST or other HTTP request, or for non-HTTP systems a range of other uses, but "trigger" is totally ambiguous
[19:44] <mfa298_> There are also different ways to send data to the server
[19:44] <Randomskk> the remote server might just give you some HTML, or loading that URL might launch the nukes
[19:44] <Randomskk> hopefully not from a GET as that would not be idempotent
[19:44] <mfa298_> what site are you trying to "trigger" something on ?
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> It's nothing really, just a little project I'm working on. I'll experiment, I think I know what I'm doing now :)
[19:49] <Willdude123> Hmm what should I do while waiting for Upu to be able to help me? I think I might actually go and join my family.
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> good idea
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[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: With requests, there's a .get() and a post() I'm just looking up the documentation. I may have to use post
[19:54] <mfa298_> post is often used in forms and file uploads.
[19:55] <mfa298_> if you see a url like "http://server/page.html?variable=value&variable=value" that's a GET request and all the data is in the url
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> right
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> So would I use post for that?
[19:56] <mfa298_> GET is often easier to use, post can have a lot more data
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, I need something in python-requests really which loads one of those URLs that has all the data in
[19:57] <mfa298_> the activation link you get via email is going to be a get request, but then if it asked you to login using a form that will be a POST request when you submit the form
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> right, and this can't be handled by requests?
[19:59] <mfa298_> I'd imagine from python there is a way to do POST or GET (but I'm not a python programmer)
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, ill look into ir
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> it
[19:59] <mfa298_> and it all depends on what the web application your talking to expects.
[20:00] <mfa298_> (some things may not care if it's a GET or POST, some things will care)
[20:01] <tweetBot> @NSEballoon: Good progress on the CHDK SSDV project! Now to write the encoder in LUA... #ukhas #chdk #hateLUA http://t.co/Igf1Bciqm5
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> Basically, loading up a certain URL will make the application in question trigger something
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> I've already got the URL which contains data which will be used in the application to do something
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> I just need to, whatever the word is, run it
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[20:03] <mfa298_> if it's a url that you can just click on and thats all you need to do then it's probably a GET request
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that's all
[20:04] <mfa298_> and the previous things you've done are GET requests
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> I can't believe it's that simple...
[20:04] <Randomskk> POST is only if you like, click submit on a form
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> So when I was getting altitude data from Habitat using requests,get() isn't that the opposite of loading this URL?
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> I really need to learn this stuff
[20:05] <mfa298_> when you look at the details web stuff is pretty simple. The technology hasn't changed much since the start.
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> Do they call this HTML?
[20:05] <Randomskk> HTTP
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> right
[20:05] <Randomskk> HTML is a markup langauge like <div id="whatever">hello</div>
[20:06] <Randomskk> HTTP is a protocol like GET /index.html HTTP/1.1
[20:06] <mfa298_> HTML is what you see if you click view source in your browser
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Ah so that's the code that makes up websites
[20:06] <mfa298_> (well probably a mixture of html, css and js)
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> So when I was getting altitude data from Habitat using requests,get() isn't that the opposite of loading this URL?
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> I just wish I had some way of testing
[20:07] <mfa298_> a get request just says GET this data from the server and the server returns data
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> So, isn't that the opposite of what I want to do/
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[20:08] <Randomskk> it's the same as loading the URL
[20:08] <mfa298_> the only real way to test is against the server providing the service.
[20:08] <Randomskk> not the opposite
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> right, I'll give it a go
[20:08] <Randomskk> you ask the web server (the part before the /) "please give me this web page" (the part after the /)
[20:08] <Randomskk> in the habitat case, it gives you some balloon data
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[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[20:09] <Randomskk> in another server case, it detects you asking for the web page and confirms your account, returning a page saying "account confirmed"
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> I understand
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks for helping an idiot with no clue about HTTP :)
[20:09] <Randomskk> no worries
[20:09] <Randomskk> gotta learn it somehow
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> I take it they dont teach this in a level computing
[20:10] <mfa298_> when you go to something like google.com/?q=wibble, your just saying get the main page from google and set the variable q to wibble. The google server then does the query magic using the q variable for the search
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[20:10] <Randomskk> well your computer doesn't even set anything
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, this all looks remarkably interesting actually :)
[20:11] <Randomskk> it just says to google verbatim "give me /?q=wibble please"
[20:11] <Randomskk> that could be "give me /?AWRJ==4"£$"fae??? please" for all anyone cares
[20:11] <mfa298_> I can't comment about a levle computing these days, when I did a levels the web was pretty new to most people (aol or compuserve days)
[20:11] <Randomskk> google (and many other web servers!) happen to interpret a querystring like ?q=wibble as having meaning and so react (by searching the web for you)
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[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> nice, I gotta go set some things up for Saturday
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:12] <Randomskk> gl
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Is this the sort of thing that will probably work: https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/Project1_GroundCode/blob/master/dltrigger.py ?
[20:33] <mfa298_> is this still for your twitter thing?
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> not really
[20:34] <mfa298_> in which case I'd have thought the habitat method is much safer it will have done the string parsing and cheking it's a valid string already
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> I know, I've already got a Habitat version it's just I need a dl version too as a backup
[20:35] <mfa298_> and is that what this script is for ?
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[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> yea kind of
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> :/
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[20:36] <mfa298_> you probably need a few more conditions in your trigger.
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> Well I'm sending a message down from my payload which has nothing to do with telemetry, so it will come through as a normal sentence.
[20:37] <mfa298_> what if you got a line that failed checksum that was $$$PAYLOAD,27596,51.1234,-2.432,2000*BAD
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a think
[20:38] <mfa298_> if you did it purely looking for a number over 20000 you could get a hit on a bad string.
[20:39] <Upu> good luck ibanezmatt13
[20:39] <mfa298_> also if you're running stuff on your chase PC what happens if you don't have internet at the time.
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Upu :) You too
[20:39] <Upu> if we are all recovered I might even blast over to give you a hand recovering
[20:39] <Upu> we should be down by 13:00
[20:39] <Upu> what time are you launching chrisstubbs ?
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, good point mfa298_
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: That would be great, surely Brightwalton is a bit too far to meet up?
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> Upu will aim for 13:00 then
[20:40] <Upu> ok
[20:40] <chrisstubbs> or is that when you are turning up to launch?
[20:40] <bertrik> both Maxell and myself may not be online on saturday/sunday, so possibly no tracking from RevSpace, the hague, netherlands :(
[20:41] <Upu> no three payloads to recover
[20:41] <Upu> so will probably be done about midnight
[20:41] <daveake> lol
[20:41] <chrisstubbs> Haha
[20:41] <Bo|2> Yeee... HAM's are allowed in the air in DK....
[20:41] <Bo|2> just need an HAM license cat D
[20:41] <chrisstubbs> I might go slightly earlier then, who knows :)
[20:42] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK
[20:42] <chrisstubbs> At a time where it wont affect your flights too much and isnt going into london/sea would be nice :P
[20:42] <Upu> you can use APRS too Bo_DK
[20:42] <Bo_DK> :-D
[20:43] <Bo_DK> just got it confirmed.... now need to figure cheap way to get license
[20:43] <Bo_DK> do UK use same category system?
[20:44] <Bo_DK> APRS... where can i read about that?
[20:44] <Bo_DK> btw.... got my Cape for auto tracker done... need someone to review it.. need to know a bit about beagle bone black as i dont...
[20:45] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System
[20:45] <fsphil> ham license cat
[20:45] <Bo_DK> what i would like to know is if i need to change anything in the eagle files etc
[20:46] <Bo_DK> fsphil: yes... i need a cat D to use ham on a ballon
[20:46] <Bo_DK> but do uk use same system for a ham license?
[20:47] <Bo_DK> SHIT... many aprs in DK
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[20:58] <Willdude123> Bo_DK, language
[20:58] <Willdude123> Also I see that for the first time you aren't working :)
[21:03] <Maxell> bertrik: well, tracking habs is just for fun. However, SSDV might even have a cause
[21:03] <Maxell> and now we can track two at the same time...
[21:03] <Maxell> Nah, SSDV doesn't work oversears/
[21:04] <Maxell> I would do the location trackers... But no interwebz on vacation campsite.
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[22:19] <mattbrejza> arko: http://imgur.com/a/Fgesk
[22:19] <arko> oh man
[22:19] <arko> ok
[22:19] <arko> thats a very tight design
[22:20] <arko> 4 layer?
[22:20] <mattbrejza> nope
[22:20] <mattbrejza> 2
[22:20] <arko> nice!
[22:20] <arko> power regulator?
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[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, well done!
[22:20] <mattbrejza> yea the regulator is seperate in case that regulator wasnt gonna work
[22:20] <arko> ah
[22:20] <arko> what was the final mass?
[22:21] <mattbrejza> well the 3d printed case was quite heavy
[22:21] <mattbrejza> but the pcb was like 3g
[22:21] <arko> i'd imagine
[22:21] <Randomskk> lol I really need to up my game http://randomskk.net/u/wombat.png
[22:21] <mattbrejza> cant accurately measure
[22:21] <danielsaul> arko: Does your design have a battery on the back then?
[22:21] <arko> yeah
[22:21] <danielsaul> My entry to the contest: https://twitter.com/apexhab/status/370179899442487296/photo/1 :P
[22:21] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/5Qf4nk2.png
[22:21] <arko> thats mine
[22:21] <danielsaul> slightly bigger than yours :(
[22:22] <Randomskk> yours are allll soooo similar
[22:22] <arko> next to pava
[22:22] <danielsaul> yeah, Randomskk just showed it to us
[22:22] <arko> damn thats huge Randomskk
[22:22] <Randomskk> haha that's what she said
[22:22] <arko> hahahaha
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, hi
[22:22] <arko> well done
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> still have to make the final footprints (batteries, NTX2)
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> and then the footprint selection is done and we can go to pcbnew
[22:23] <craag> It take it not-yet physical PCBs don't count :( http://i.imgur.com/jn1dKoB.png
[22:23] <arko> mattbrejza: danielsaul: excellent work
[22:23] <arko> you guys have awesome designs
[22:23] <Randomskk> craag: oh that's nice!
[22:23] <Randomskk> I approve of doing something a bit different
[22:23] <arko> woah nice craag
[22:23] <arko> craag doesn't see rules
[22:24] <arko> brave :)
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Funky
[22:24] <craag> I was hoping to have it fabbed by the conf, but I don't think so now.
[22:24] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6962972965/in/set-72157629171748600/lightbox/
[22:24] <Randomskk> so huge :(
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> craag, cool
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, thanks again for KiCAD motivation
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> craag, what do the circles do?
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Reminds me for some reason of the time I spent a few hours designing an optimal AA->PP3 converter with an SMPS.
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Can anyone spot the subtle problem?
[22:25] <craag> Lunar_Lander: The small green ones are vias, the larger ones at the bottom are pads.
[22:25] <arko> Randomskk: did you give it a bath in flux?
[22:25] <Randomskk> yea pretty much
[22:25] <arko> haha
[22:25] <arko> i dig it though
[22:25] <Randomskk> if you look real close you can see all the 0402s hidden under the flux
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:25] <arko> i love the evolution of habs in the last 3 years
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> why so many vias?
[22:26] <arko> cools it down
[22:26] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if there are FOD specs for jet engines.
[22:26] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Stitches the ground planes together, I don't get charged for more, so might as well make the best ground plane I can!
[22:26] <danielsaul> arko: last 5 years... http://gallery.apexhab.org/Apex-I/Finishing_Touches/Payload look at that thing
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> What is it 'safe' for a jet engine to ingest.
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> because I wondered about those on Upu's GPSs also
[22:26] <arko> danielsaul: nice!
[22:27] <arko> hahaha
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[22:27] <arko> my first hab was 6lbs!
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:27] <arko> my last one was 200g
[22:27] <arko> my next one will be 10g
[22:27] <craag> I haven't launched one yet over 50g...
[22:27] <danielsaul> crazy
[22:27] <arko> craag: lol
[22:27] <craag> And that was with a camera
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[22:29] <arko> hahaha
[22:29] <arko> now im going through my old flickr pictures
[22:29] <arko> http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/5802180589/
[22:29] <arko> snake good for babys, but no guns
[22:29] <arko> babies*
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> what does that mean?
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> the caption says something about instincts
[22:32] <arko> i cant remember, but i loved the picture out of context
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> snake...
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> snake, guns
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> solid snake
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> Metal Gear Solid!!!!
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[22:34] <chrisstubbs> arko, welcome to british advertising: http://bit.ly/19MVeO7
[22:34] <chrisstubbs> spotted that today
[22:34] <arko> hahaha
[22:34] <arko> i love how it doesn't even have a cpu
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:35] <chrisstubbs> heatsink <3 SD card
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I thought that is the joke
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah that xD
[22:35] <mattbrejza> i just removed the expansion header from my pico and its now 31.2x10.2 if anyone wanted a target
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> I was just thinking why the SD just said "Memory Card"
[22:35] <chrisstubbs> No it flashed up for a couple of seconds in a car advert
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> the car was orange, i paid no more attention than that
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[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> wondering about the context
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> was it supposed to depict the car's electronics or so
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I got one california motor vehicle related question
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[22:42] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, most of our advers are "Here is some pointless shit, buy this thing"
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> actually I once watched a movie recorded on ITV and was astonished that there was a special forces ad
[22:43] <fsphil> the army ads seems a bit misleading
[22:44] <fsphil> they make it look cool
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:58] <KF5WYX> Hey all - I have a question for you that's a little beyond me. My nephew is looking for a science fair experiment for his school, and he's interested in doing something relating to the doppler effect. Is there any experiment that we could do from my next HAB launch that would help to demonstrate the doppler?
[22:59] <Randomskk> hmm
[22:59] <Randomskk> probably you are best using sound rather than radio
[22:59] <Randomskk> the GPS involves doppler which could be an interest point
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> Use multiple GPS-locked recievers to track the doppler from a balloon simple beacon to reconstruct the track.
[22:59] <Randomskk> but hard to conceptualise or get a visceral understanding of
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> (silly suggestion)
[22:59] <KF5WYX> *nods - that's what I thought, and likely speeds far in excess of what the balloon will be doing would help.
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[23:00] <Randomskk> for radio, sure
[23:00] <Randomskk> for sound, eh
[23:00] <WillTablet> Hi
[23:00] <Randomskk> you'll hear doppler on sound with very little speed
[23:00] <K9JKM> Amateur satellites on 436 MHz have +/- 10 KHz RF shift due to doppler
[23:00] <Randomskk> ambulance kinda thing
[23:00] <Randomskk> how old is the nephew? shoulda asked earlier
[23:00] <Randomskk> like, make an air canon and put a rape alarm in it and fire it straight up
[23:00] <KF5WYX> he's 13
[23:01] <Randomskk> definitely a fun and hands on demonstration of doppler
[23:01] <Randomskk> plus it's loud and annoying, which kids love
[23:01] <Randomskk> cannon I guess
[23:01] <WillTablet> Rape alarm?
[23:01] <Randomskk> personal sirens?
[23:01] <Randomskk> they're like, small black boxes where you can pull a thing out and they make a piercing wail
[23:01] <WillTablet> I think the best thing is to take him to an area where there are a load of police cars.
[23:02] <WillTablet> Ask him if the sound changes
[23:02] <Randomskk> harder to have at a scholl science fair
[23:02] <Randomskk> school*
[23:02] <WillTablet> Hmm
[23:02] <Randomskk> and I guess you just missed the intro
[23:02] <WillTablet> Yeah
[23:02] <KF5WYX> hmm
[23:02] <Randomskk> but yea, school science fair
[23:02] <KF5WYX> the rape alarm is an interesting idea.
[23:02] <Randomskk> it's quite high pitched which is maybe not ideal but gives a good excuse to make it move really fast
[23:03] <bertrik> you can buy one of those 10 GHz microwave doppler units (around $6) and just add an audio amplifier, waving your hand in front of the radar gives doppler sound
[23:03] <Randomskk> firing it straight up from an air cannon gives you a good amount of relative velocity range
[23:03] <WillTablet> Come to think of it, apart from the police cars, I have never really seen the doppler effect in action.
[23:03] <WillTablet> I wish we had science fairs.
[23:03] <WillTablet> I'd be designing PCBs for it and all though.
[23:04] <Randomskk> yea I'd have loved that
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[23:04] <KF5WYX> I wish we (uk) had them too, it's interesting to be vicariously involved in one.
[23:04] <WillTablet> My science teacher is actually really good to talk to about physics shizz
[23:05] <bertrik> these kinds of modules: http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Wireless-Doppler-Module-Radar-Microwave-Motion-Sensor-/200955418295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec9e056b7 the output is only 200 uV or so, but the doppler is in the audible range
[23:05] <WillTablet> KF5WYX are you and your nephew from the uk?
[23:08] <KF5WYX> WillTablet I'm from the UK, moved to Texas almost 18 months ago, getting married in october and this is my newphew-to-be
[23:08] <KF5WYX> he's texan
[23:08] <WillTablet> Oh congratulations
[23:08] <arko> MURICA
[23:08] <KF5WYX> thanks :-)
[23:09] <arko> welcome KF5WYX
[23:09] <arko> how are you liking texas?
[23:09] <KF5WYX> Loving Texas, it's been good to me. Given me a great woman to marry and life in the sun :)
[23:10] <KF5WYX> for anyone that isn't aware... KF5WYX == MrCraig - I recently passed the tech and got a callsign.
[23:10] <WillTablet> Science fairs would be really interesting. Other people my age (13) don't find science as interesting as I do,
[23:10] <KF5WYX> The only thing hindered in texas is my hab flights due to there not being an unlicensed band under Part 97 (or any usable part)
[23:10] <KF5WYX> I had to get a license.
[23:11] <K9JKM> W5ACM leads some HAB flights around Houston area
[23:11] <KF5WYX> Will can you think of any science fair experiment that could be done using a HAB (not only based on doppler, but something technical rather than say, biology) ?
[23:11] <arko> KF5WYX: nice!
[23:11] <arko> yeah, at least you have flat ground
[23:11] <arko> here in los angeles we have mountains everywhere
[23:11] <KF5WYX> I've had contact with W5ACM at some point, but it was a year ago before I was near ready to fly.
[23:11] <WillTablet> KF5WYX there's the mouse idea but peta might be on your tail.
[23:12] <Randomskk> on your tail, nice.
[23:12] <K9JKM> PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
[23:12] <KF5WYX> I could launch from a house that my in-laws own in the mountains of new-mexico (it's already at 8-9k feet) I'm not sure they even have regulated airspace there.
[23:12] <Randomskk> if you wanted to stick with sound you could record sound attenuation with altitude
[23:12] <Randomskk> loudspeaker and microphone, record average amplitude on the microphone and log against altitude, make a pretty chart.
[23:12] <arko> ooo
[23:13] <KF5WYX> sound attenuation with altitude - interesting - that could work. Think it could be done with a pizo?
[23:13] <Randomskk> if you get a bit mathsy you can work out what the expected attenuation is based on atmospheric density and then plot the model against the data
[23:13] <Randomskk> a piezo would be fine for the speaker. not sure about microphone.
[23:13] <WillTablet> You could investigate the disruptions caused to the animal lovers of the world by sending a mouse up on a hab
[23:13] <Randomskk> piezo buzzer will just make a continuous loud noise
[23:13] <Randomskk> then a little microphone hooked up to the ADC on an arduino or something
[23:13] <Randomskk> probably need a small amplifier
[23:14] <bertrik> not so much attenuation, but reduced transmission, I think
[23:14] <Randomskk> plenty to get teeth into if desired but easy to buy that stuff if required
[23:14] <Randomskk> bertrik: you wouldn't count that as channel attenuation?
[23:14] <Randomskk> I guess it is a reduced transmission too
[23:15] <WillTablet> KF5WYX, for extra marks get him to design a PCB for it and get him to show everyone what each bit does.
[23:15] <bertrik> maybe, but I associate (perhaps incorrectly) attenuation with energy loss
[23:15] <Randomskk> hmmmmm
[23:15] <Randomskk> energy's gotta go someplace
[23:15] <Randomskk> well actually it doesn't here does it
[23:15] <Randomskk> the speaker will just encounter less resistance to motion
[23:15] <Randomskk> so take less energy for the same displacement
[23:15] <Randomskk> so I guess there is no attenuation
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[23:16] <Randomskk> well your nephew could have a sit and ponder about the meaning of attenuation vs reduced transmission too then KF5WYX
[23:16] <bertrik> :)
[23:17] <K9JKM> Continous measurement at the source, and compare to delta's at the receiving end
[23:17] <KF5WYX> This actually sounds like a very doable experiment, which doesn't directly affect my telemetry circuitry, and which he can assembler independantly and I just carry it up. I can also provide ports on the flight computer to attach it to the AT-Mega.
[23:17] <K9JKM> That way you could ensure you're at least close to displacing the speaker cone at a fixed rate
[23:18] <Randomskk> yea it's actually an experiment I've always been vaguely tempted by, I'd love to see the graph
[23:18] <Randomskk> I don't know of anyone who has actually done it (though I'm sure it has been done)
[23:18] <Randomskk> K9JKM has a point
[23:18] <Randomskk> but maybe a microphone that is mechanically coupled to the speaker
[23:18] <Randomskk> and one that is not
[23:18] <Randomskk> if you were really sciencing it up you could play white noise out of the speaker and thus measure the changing frequency response of the channels
[23:18] <bertrik> or one speaker and two microphones at distance X and distance 2X ?
[23:19] <KF5WYX> K9JKM does have a point, that's a good control for the experiment.
[23:19] <Randomskk> the mechanical coupling will pass low frequencies while the air will do high frequencies but tail off with altitude
[23:19] <bertrik> attenuation in air is only getting significant at ultrasonic frequencies IIRC
[23:19] <K9JKM> AMSAT-UK had an experiment on one of their phonesats ... In Space No One Can Hear You Scream ....probably find it www.amsat-uk.org
[23:19] <Randomskk> but frequency responses and fourier transforms might be getting a bit involved
[23:19] <Randomskk> K9JKM: I designed that ;)
[23:19] <K9JKM> Eggsellent!
[23:19] <Randomskk> http://screaminspace.com
[23:20] <WillTablet> You could even try having 2 launches.
[23:20] <K9JKM> G4DPZ fed the info to us over here
[23:20] <Randomskk> haha oh great
[23:20] <Randomskk> shame the satellite broke
[23:20] <WillTablet> And then have some sub/ultrasonic sound played. See if the other payload picks it up?
[23:21] <Randomskk> but please don't ask me to talk about it, this is a public channel :P
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[23:25] <KF5WYX> Thanks for the suggestions :-) I think this is a great little experiment that ties the science fair to the hab project.
[23:25] <Randomskk> good luck with it! be sure to report back any results :)
[23:27] <KF5WYX> of course :)
[23:27] <KF5WYX> I'm now just concerning myself with shielding the speaker and microphone from the wind noise
[23:28] <KF5WYX> perhaps a tube with holes to allow the pressure to equalize
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[23:36] <KT5TK_QRL> Hi KF5WYX, I'm with Andy's group (w5ACM). If you're ready to launch let us know. Also If you need any help.
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[23:45] <KF5WYX> hi KT5TK_QRL - Actually, I have a pencil date of October 26 and assistance from nt5ph (my ham instructor) for assist on tracking - the more radios the better! I do still have questions about regulations and acquiring a notam, though I'm lead to believe that there are several existing notam sites locally. (North Dallas)
[23:46] <KF5WYX> The telemetry board is currently under construction.
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[23:55] <KF5WYX> Ahh KT5TK_QRL, it's you that I've spoken with previously by email (it was way back in August last year) - Work was a nightmare back then because of insane deadlines and so I missed the HAM classes and put my life on hold.
[00:00] --- Fri Aug 23 2013