[00:00] <SpeedEvil> work out calories a day for hamster. then for human. divide the oxygen use of human by that ratio.
[00:03] <Randomskk> about 50 calories a day apparently
[00:03] <Randomskk> for the hamster
[00:03] <Randomskk> vs say 2000 for a human
[00:03] <Randomskk> typical hamster weight 100g
[00:04] <Randomskk> typical human weight 70kg
[00:04] <Randomskk> not sure about oxygen use
[00:04] <wrea> Also, it might freeze to death
[00:05] <Randomskk> details
[00:05] <Randomskk> wrap it up well
[00:05] <Randomskk> though in all seriousness sending a hamster up is a crazy and terrible idea
[00:05] <wrea> yeah
[00:07] <WillTablet> Hmm
[00:07] <WillTablet> How can I provide oxygen for it?
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[00:15] <nigelvh> WillTablet, we run a class here in the US, and we say "nothing with fur" crickets or flys or whatnot are much better test subjects.
[00:17] <wrea> nigelvh: where's the class at?
[00:19] <nigelvh> University of Washington
[00:19] <wrea> Ah cool, didn't know about that
[00:20] <nigelvh> Yeah, I volunteer with a couple classes there. It's a good time.
[00:23] <WillTablet> Found a us government document that says mice use 3.6 cc/gm/hour
[00:23] <wrea> nigelvh: where do people usually launch up here? East of the cascades?
[00:26] <WillTablet> So you'd want a 3 hour oxygen supply. For a 20g mouse that'd be 108 CC
[00:27] <wrea> you probably on need a half hour supply since it'll die after that amount of time
[00:29] <WillTablet> Why?
[00:30] <wrea> It'll freeze to death
[00:32] <WillTablet> Well duh.
[00:32] <WillTablet> I'd regulate the temperature
[00:33] <WillTablet> Add some pointless electronics that'd get quite hot.
[00:34] <wrea> pfft
[00:34] <wrea> Well at least dont let PETA find out
[00:34] <WillTablet> Nah I'm not gonna do it
[00:34] <WillTablet> Too impractical
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[00:40] <SpeedEvil> also, you need to remove the co2
[00:41] <WillTablet> Anyway
[00:41] <nigelvh> wrea, yeah, we go over to moses lake.
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[00:56] <SpeedEvil> also. no fur. pigs are ok ?
[00:56] <nigelvh> Pigs have hair
[00:56] <nigelvh> So, no.
[00:56] <nigelvh> Also we limit each student's payload to <1lb and smaller than a shoebox, so a pig wouldn't fit that either.
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[01:21] <WillTablet> What's the best method of soldering the ublox?
[01:30] <zyp> the best would obviously be a reflow oven
[01:31] <BrainDamage> hand it to the guy on rcforums that got infamous for his soldering job pics
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[03:31] <MrCraig> [10:29.51] <Nikropht> [13:54:00] kenwshmt is could be worse... my previous boss aksed me to write down everything i knew about computers and network admin in
[03:31] <MrCraig> a book and give it to her..... so she could "take over" while I was on vacation
[03:32] <MrCraig> sorry #highaltitude, somehow pasted from another channel log.
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[07:59] <mfa298_> moaning
[08:01] <Brew> morning mfa298
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[08:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That bad already mfa298 ?
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[08:03] <mfa298_> well it is morning.
[08:04] <mfa298_> although middle of the week with a long weekend.
[08:04] <mfa298_> and parcelforce made sure I was up at 8am by delivering a new toy :D
[08:06] <fsphil> of to a good start then
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[08:08] <Brew> I'm quite chipper thanks to all your help I now have two working Raspberry Pi Trackers. All that is left to do is some antennas for the NTX2's, strap it all in a box and pick a day.
[08:09] <fsphil> I note a lack of Test in that list :) it should be there at least three times
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[08:10] <mfa298_> I'd also make sure you understand what the code you've got is doing. You don't want to be at the launch site, with no internet and find it's not working and you cant fix it
[08:10] <fsphil> test battery life, what it does if power goes and returns, test it with fake gps data
[08:10] <fsphil> test the range of the transmitter (if you have a decent high hill or mountain nearby)
[08:10] <Brew> fsphill yes it's running now and it will get thrown about. I have spend a lot of time reading through it and now feel I've got a handle on it. I'm also using a Spot Tracker as a backup should it all go horribly wrong
[08:11] <fsphil> the one time I used a spot as a backup, it didn't work
[08:11] <fsphil> thankfully wasn't needed anyway
[08:11] <Brew> Sadly I'm in suffolk so hills or mountains are not something that I have a good supply of.
[08:11] <fsphil> ah
[08:11] <fsphil> do try and do some kind of range test though
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[08:12] <fsphil> find a big lake, try receiving it from the other side
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[08:12] <Brew> There's a guide somewhere for the perfect length for the 50 ohm antennas isn't there?
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[08:12] <Brew> I'm going to take it for a walk over the field later
[08:12] Nick change: nick_ -> Guest27693
[08:12] <fsphil> for 434mhz it needs to be about 164mm
[08:13] Nick change: Randomskk -> Guest65648
[08:13] <fsphil> for the main element
[08:13] <fsphil> the ground radials should be at least that
[08:13] <fsphil> but can be bigger
[08:14] <Brew> on the ground elements are folk just using of the shelf DVB antennas or are custom dedicated units so much better?
[08:14] <fsphil> TV antenna? that won't work too well
[08:14] <mfa298_> most people have some sort of dual band ham antenna
[08:15] <mfa298_> a few use yagi's (look like a tv antenna but not quite the same)
[08:15] <mfa298_> for the car a magmount
[08:15] <gonzo__> does not need to be dual band, but they are so widly avail, that;s what tends to be used
[08:15] <mfa298_> At home I've mostly used homemade antennas
[08:16] <gonzo__> a small handheld yagi is common for direction finding at a landing site
[08:16] <fsphil> http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[08:16] <fsphil> I use this on the car
[08:16] <fsphil> and a small yagi would be handy to have too
[08:17] <Brew> Given I'm in Elmswell and we plan to launch from Cambridge the predictions nearly all fly very close to my house I planned to use that as a ground station. I'm just trying to work out what to do for the best antenna here. My guess is also it doesn't need to be very high.
[08:18] <fsphil> VHF and UHF work best with lots of height
[08:18] <fsphil> means you'll be able to track it closer to the ground
[08:18] <gonzo__> (I'd consider cutting the coax short on those mag mounts. 2.xmtrs of RG174 is lossy!)
[08:18] <fsphil> I bet putting a new plug on rg174 is annoying
[08:19] <gonzo__> you can get clamp BNCs for that diam coax. And SMA crimps
[08:20] <fsphil> I'd probably stick an SMA on it
[08:20] <fsphil> keep loosing the BNC>SMA adaptor
[08:20] <gonzo__> brew, I assume you are using an RTL dongle. Advise getting a habamp to go with it
[08:21] <mfa298_> you can also get bnc crimps
[08:21] <mfa298_> although the ones I've just got from china don't seem to match the crimp tool I bought that's advertised as for rg174
[08:21] <Brew> indeed, I'm lucky I can get some pretty tasty antennas from a big rental company in Germany and I am so used to using RG213 or RG58 at a minimum not this shoe lace stuff that comes with the USB dongle.
[08:21] <gonzo__> bnc crimps in the thin coax could be harder to get.
[08:22] <Brew> Yes I have terminated N-type before and have a box of BNC connectors and crimps
[08:22] <gonzo__> 213 is good choice for perm installation
[08:23] <gonzo__> (Rg214 even nicer. Double screened and silver plated. Buit overkill for HAB work)
[08:23] <Brew> My preference with touring radio kit is to keep the equipment as close as possible minimising the cable loss also it's a pig to coil daily.
[08:24] <gonzo__> if you are only using the ants for RX, then I also advise putting the habamp close to the antenna.
[08:24] <fsphil> indeed
[08:25] <Brew> Does it need to be a tuned HA or can it simply be a domestic DVB HA?
[08:26] <gonzo__> recoment the tuned/filtered habamp.
[08:26] <gonzo__> the upu/darkside one uses a good low noise device and the following SAW filter will help keepn out strong local signals
[08:28] <Brew> Have i missed a trick here or if I throw this up in the air having submitted the right information other stations will be able to track the balloon and I will be able to receive the telemetry across the internet?
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[08:28] <gonzo__> that's the general idea
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[08:30] <fsphil> don't use a dvb antenna
[08:30] <gonzo__> I don't know the exact path of the data. But, the flight doc allows the ground stations to auto configure fl-digi prog and lays out the format of your telem strings so it can extract the data (or is that done at the habhub server??)
[08:30] <x-f> Brew, if possible, try tracking some flights before you do your own launch
[08:31] <gonzo__> good advice
[08:31] <fsphil> gonzo__: at habhub
[08:32] <fsphil> well there's some limited parsing done locally too, to update the top banner with position
[08:32] <gonzo__> ta phil
[08:32] <gonzo__> that was why I though it may be parsed in the fldigi
[08:33] <gonzo__> does the whole packet go off to the server in the raw (after CRC test) for separate parsing
[08:33] <fsphil> yea raw
[08:33] <fsphil> actually I think it uploads things it thinks are strings, even with a bad crc
[08:34] <gonzo__> data is best kept raw as long as poss. Gives best chance of fixing probs further down the line.
[08:34] <Brew> x-f, sure there are some flights planned this weekend aren't there?
[08:35] <gonzo__> is mr dave doing his twin Pi this weekend?
[08:35] <mfa298_> I think dave was planning to
[08:35] <x-f> yeah, Matt and Dave
[08:35] <mfa298_> and matt is planning to fly as well
[08:36] <Bo_DK_Working> morning everyone :-D
[08:36] <mfa298_> Brew: if you can arrange some sort of antenna for the weekend you should be able to track some
[08:36] <mfa298_> I think Matt is launching from near cambridge
[08:37] <Bo_DK_Working> time for breakfast then on to converting my project to a BBB cape :-/
[08:37] <Brew> On the antennas and I'll check the mailing list for launches
[08:38] <fsphil> tracking someone elses launch is a lot less panicy ;)
[08:42] <x-f> i have yet to try that :)
[08:44] <Brew> am I going mad? i do remember seeing a page somewhere detailing the antenna length for the NTX2 I can't now find it. Or should I just go cut bait of RG58 with 165mm of the centre exposed?
[08:45] <x-f> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna
[08:45] <Brew> bingo thank you.
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[08:46] <fsphil> they're good and easy to make, and reliable
[08:47] <mfa298_> I've used something similar out the window as a base station antenna
[08:47] <Brew> tight back to the garage and to fire the iron up
[08:48] Action: fsphil plays some action music
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[08:50] <mfa298_> Benny Hill theme ?
[08:50] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2UvA23SFCU
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[08:53] <Brew> fsphill i prefer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MVonyVSQoM more fitting with some of the other nonsense I get asked to do
[08:54] <fsphil> haha
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[08:55] <fsphil> the HAB-team
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[09:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> craag, See your letter made it to the Daily Mail !
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[09:07] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE-M: ??
[09:11] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE-M: You're scaring me... what letter?
[09:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Are perhaps nt you a Phil Craag G3UGK, neighbour just asked me if I knew the callsign ?
[09:12] <craag> Ah no I'm Phil M0DNY
[09:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah right suprised you would be reading the daily fail!
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[09:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Don't want to leabve a trace
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[09:15] <craag> More that chrome'll now start suggesting it..
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[09:16] <fsphil> too late craag. WE KNOW
[09:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its like being RickRolled
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[09:54] <Laurenceb> http://ambivalentengineer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/hyperloop-heat-balance.html
[09:54] <Laurenceb> finally
[09:55] <Laurenceb> nail hit on head
[09:56] <Laurenceb> at least someone else saw it
[09:59] <Brew> Anyone had experience with one of these http://www.funcubedongle.com how much better than the EZCap are they?
[10:01] <craag> The new ones (Pro Plus) are 100x better, and they do HF.
[10:02] <craag> But.. almost as much as a real radio, and still require a reasonably powerful laptop.
[10:02] <gonzo__> agree. The new ones have an lna internally and a SAW filter for UHF
[10:05] <mattbrejza> arnt they just a 192kSPS soundcard?
[10:05] <mattbrejza> do they really require that much processing poewr?
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[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning
[10:06] <wonderworks> Morning all
[10:06] <craag> mattbrejza: I find my netbooks stil struggle, when running an sdr program and dl-fldigi.
[10:07] <mattbrejza> hmm ok
[10:07] <Brew> I've got a couple of decent mac book pros so it should be ok. I also reckon I can get a 6m bit of scarf with a decent antenna strapped to the side of my garage
[10:08] <craag> So I should say, they need a laptop, not a netbook. And You still need the laptop even if you're just trying to DF.
[10:08] <craag> yeah macbooks pros will cope without blinking.
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[10:14] <gonzo__> aparently the 6mtr performance of the fcd p+ is outstanding
[10:14] <craag> Brew: As a home receiver, it's great.
[10:14] <craag> It outperformed a borrowed ft897 for me.
[10:15] <gonzo__> mattbrejza, yep they coem up as a soundcard. They are 14/16but though, so better dynamic range than an RTL with 8but
[10:15] <mattbrejza> any ideas what mixer they use?
[10:16] <mattbrejza> someting must give it an advantage over rtl+habamp
[10:16] <gonzo__> probably built into the front end chip
[10:17] <gonzo__> iirc the front end is the same as the rtl, but it does not use the internal adc's, but has a better external adc on the IQ outputs. Adn has a tcxo for reference, so more stable
[10:17] <gonzo__> and up front LNA and filters
[10:18] <craag> The original Funcube Pro used the e4000, the new one does not.
[10:18] <craag> Can't find what it does use though.
[10:18] <gonzo__> the e4000 became difficult to get when elonex went bump
[10:18] <ibanezmatt13> Brew: Just sent you mail
[10:18] <mattbrejza> there must be decent photos, how hard are they to take apart?
[10:19] <mattbrejza> http://www.funcubedongle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/P10007591.jpg seems to be the best
[10:19] <mattbrejza> with old back, front new?
[10:19] <craag> yep
[10:19] <gonzo__> so howard had to design for a new ctuner chip and took the opertunity to improve everything else
[10:20] <mattbrejza> http://www.funcubedongle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/fcd2a.png pcb design
[10:23] <craag> Somewhere I found a block level schematic
[10:23] <craag> But I looked ofr it recently and couldn't find it
[10:24] <craag> I think it may have been a slide in one of his AMSAT presentations
[10:25] <mattbrejza> i think it would be good to make a 434MHz only one, that has an onboard stm32f4 and outputs SSB
[10:25] <mattbrejza> (at decent BW)
[10:25] <craag> That would be cool.
[10:25] <craag> SDR handheld kind of thing
[10:25] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:25] <mattbrejza> and it can connect to the PC via usb if you want too
[10:26] <mattbrejza> he must be using off the shelf downconverters though
[10:26] <craag> Yeah I'm sure he is.
[10:28] <gonzo__> same DC chip as the RTL's
[10:28] <mattbrejza> but not the e4k?
[10:28] <gonzo__> not for the P+
[10:28] <gonzo__> the RTLs don't use the e4000. The earlt dvb dongles did
[10:29] <mattbrejza> R820T?
[10:29] <craag> erm RTL is the ADC ship
[10:29] <craag> *chip
[10:29] <gonzo__> the mk1 fcd used the e4000
[10:29] <mattbrejza> FC0012?
[10:29] <craag> RTLs can use the e4000, or R820T or anything... the RTL bit is the ADC behind it.
[10:29] <gonzo__> is it? Sorry nit delved that deep
[10:30] <gonzo__> the r820t looks fimiliar part no
[10:30] <craag> Yep RTL2832U is the 8bit ADC. The first compatible tuner was the e4000, then people started getting other tuners working.
[10:30] <craag> gonzo__: You were watching my presentation at BATC last year right?
[10:30] <craag> :P
[10:31] <gonzo__> my info comes from mem from the amsat talk howard gave last yr
[10:31] <mattbrejza> next issue is where can i buy a r820t/fc0012
[10:31] <gonzo__> rr craag.
[10:32] <gonzo__> seem to recall you had a tracket hung in a tree in the carpark
[10:32] <craag> yes
[10:32] <craag> which I couldn't rx properly from in the lecture room
[10:33] <craag> So after much fumbling we went for the wireless mic
[10:33] <Bo_DK_Working> Need advice on decoupling the ublox 6 max
[10:33] <Bo_DK_Working> is it only vcc or all vcc pins?
[10:33] <Bo_DK_Working> and what value should i pick?
[10:33] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: 0.1uf across the vcc rail near it.
[10:33] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[10:34] <Bo_DK_Working> i count 3 vcc pins with different suffix...
[10:34] <Bo_DK_Working> should i do all?
[10:34] <craag> Check the datasheet as to which are inputs
[10:34] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[10:34] <craag> (one is the output for an active antenna)
[10:34] <craag> Then yes, connect all the inputs together.
[10:35] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe
[10:35] <Bo_DK_Working> 2 of them are :-D
[10:35] <Bo_DK_Working> but thanks anyway
[10:35] <Bo_DK_Working> was an embarresing reminder to consult datasheet
[10:35] <craag> np ublox datasheet are unusually detailed.
[10:36] <mattbrejza> well found the blokes presentation
[10:38] <craag> I think what I found was a photo someone had taken of the slide, but maybe it got taken down.
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[10:39] <mattbrejza> tbh never actually gonna bother making this thing :P
[10:39] <craag> :'(
[10:40] <mattbrejza> the presentation doesnt say what the tuner is
[10:40] <mattbrejza> but it has 5-7 RF inputs
[10:40] <craag> Hmm, sounds like an unusual one.
[10:41] <craag> It's one of those projects that I'd really like to see open-source. With the firmware on github accepting pull requests, etc.
[10:42] <mattbrejza> yea but he wants to make money :P
[10:43] <craag> I guess someone could clone it. But probably wouldn't be able to put it together for much less.
[10:43] <craag> Especially as he gets some of the SAW filters custom-made.
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13> My NORB boards have arrived and they look awesome!
[10:47] <Babs> photo, photo...
[10:47] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Thoughts for when you're flying this w/e?
[10:48] <daveake> Predictions are unusually unpredictable
[10:48] <ibanezmatt13> Midday Saturday, I know they've changed a lot
[10:48] <ibanezmatt13> Now it's forecast a due West flight
[10:48] <daveake> NW
[10:49] <daveake> Leicester
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> From elsworth?
[10:49] <daveake> Well depends on the time
[10:49] <daveake> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/elsworth/
[10:49] <daveake> 1pm is Leicester, for 30km burst
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> Looking like Northampton at the minute
[10:49] <daveake> No it isn't
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[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> it is on here
[10:50] <daveake> it isn't here
[10:50] <daveake> :)
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> Saturday 24th: 12:00 just below Northampton...
[10:51] <daveake> Using what dataset?
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> the standard one
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/elsworth/
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> 30000km
[10:51] <daveake> I mean what time dataset
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> 30km*
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> what do you mean?
[10:52] <daveake> I mean what NOAA dataset
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> no idea what that is :/
[10:52] <daveake> In the panel
[10:52] <daveake> Model date 20130821 Model time 06
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> 20130821
[10:53] <ibanezmatt13> model time 00
[10:53] <daveake> Refresh it then
[10:53] <daveake> btw that's set up for 4m/s ascent rate. 5m/s is more common
[10:53] <ibanezmatt13> refreshed, just a bit more north of Northampton
[10:54] <daveake> Leicester, in fact :p
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take your word for it :)
[10:54] <Babs> 4m/s ascent rate seems a bit over the top
[10:54] <daveake> It's on the screen in front of you!
[10:55] <Babs> its not heart stopping until you are under 2m/s
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> it isn't! :)
[10:55] <Babs> are you guys doing a panto rehearsal?
[10:55] <daveake> no we're not
[10:55] <Babs> snigger
[10:55] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/Up7r2hV.jpg
[10:56] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, mine looks nout like that
[10:56] <daveake> Well we need to find out why not
[10:56] <ibanezmatt13> Is yours set up for a different balloon or something
[10:56] <craag> Mine also looks like Dave's
[10:57] <craag> for the elsworth one
[10:57] <daveake> It's not "mine"
[10:57] <daveake> It's the Elsworth one.
[10:57] <craag> *dave's screen
[10:57] <ibanezmatt13> I simply loaded it up, all that data should be current
[10:58] <daveake> Well check the URL and shape and that panel - http://imgur.com/KiFHilB
[10:59] <daveake> If you get stuck upload a shot of your screen
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[11:31] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: interesting
[11:31] <Laurenceb> first sane analysis ive seen
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Some of the poitns we've gone over.
[11:33] <Laurenceb> but hes missed the fact that slush works nicely
[11:33] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Ice at -100C might also be interesting
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Start out with a block of ice with heat exchanger channels in it
[11:34] <Laurenceb> prob not needed
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> No.
[11:35] <Laurenceb> if you go with the no fan and just a compressor for the skirt, i get 800Kg slush for the 28 person vehicle
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> But if you can do it - why not - done right it may be almost free
[11:35] <Laurenceb> need to make a pdf of my version
[11:36] <Laurenceb> but its basically just slush coolant for a 2 satge 500Pa to 10KPa compressor
[11:36] <Laurenceb> that goes into a conventional hovercraft skirt
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Is the hovercraft for low speed only?
[11:36] <Laurenceb> tube pressure is 100Pa, theres a pressure boost from a plug of air in front of the capsule
[11:36] <Laurenceb> no
[11:37] <Laurenceb> high speed only
[11:37] <Laurenceb> low speed uses pneumatic tires
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> So you're dumping the high pressure air bearing, and going to a massive hovercraft?
[11:37] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> 'high'
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> That sounds like it requires much CFD to prove
[11:37] <Laurenceb> not really
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Or, of course, a lot of tubes
[11:38] <Laurenceb> its pretty conventional stuff
[11:38] <Laurenceb> more so than his air bearings id say
[11:38] <Laurenceb> then 3MW, 1000Kg linea induction motor on the bottom
[11:39] <Laurenceb> with laminated alu foil stator on the bottom of tube
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> I hesitate to call mach 0.9 100Pa hovercraft 'conventional' for some reason. Maybe I'm a soulless minion of orthodoxy.
[11:39] <Laurenceb> then plasma based hot shows on the top
[11:39] <Laurenceb> *hot shoes
[11:39] <Laurenceb> for +10kV and -10kV DC
[11:40] <Laurenceb> no - overcraft is at 10KPa or more
[11:40] <Laurenceb> its run off the compressor
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> So it's pretty small
[11:40] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> A bonus with your idea.
[11:40] <Laurenceb> 500Pa -> compressor -> 2.5kPa -> intercooler -> compressor -> 10kPa -> intercooler -> skirt
[11:41] Nick change: Guest65648 -> Randomskk
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> Add some traces of helium and neon, make the tube out of acrylic, and it would look _really_ cool.
[11:41] <Laurenceb> maybe silicone rubber skirt at 200C
[11:41] <Laurenceb> hehe
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[11:42] <Laurenceb> a single person bob-sleigh style version would be interesting
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about that
[11:42] <Laurenceb> running in very cheap 80cm diameter sewer pipe
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> Sort of skytran on crack.
[11:42] <Laurenceb> for dev purposes
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> Single person is probably bad for scaling.
[11:43] <Laurenceb> annoyingly the HVDC plasma hot shoe thing is patented
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> Sigh
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> What about HVAC?
[11:43] <Laurenceb> it works massively better with DC as it doesnt need to reform the ark
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> 20khz
[11:44] <Laurenceb> also low pressure and its a few orders of magnitude better again
[11:44] <Laurenceb> yeah - "cold plasma" might be interesting
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> Helium does wierd things to arcs too
[11:44] <Laurenceb> but really simple design looks like <1% power loss
[11:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.drexel.edu/now/news-media/releases/archive/2012/February/Plasma-Kills-Microbes-Poultry-Food-Safety/
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Shiny.
[11:45] <Laurenceb> ^ using that sort of thing might be interesting
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[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Cheaper than employing out-of-work telephone sanitisers.
[11:45] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:46] <Laurenceb> http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/index.htm <- some very cool stuff there
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> Err - I fail to see the application - or is this a side-comment
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[11:46] <SpeedEvil> I note also that I've seen a similar device used for athletes foot
[11:47] <Laurenceb> this is for maintaining contact with the power supply
[11:47] <Laurenceb> http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/html/oaugdp.htm
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Sigh
[11:47] Action: SpeedEvil finds that it is quite impossible to search for plasma based devices on pubmed
[11:48] <WillTablet> I think I'll abandon my flying mouse idea.
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:50] <Laurenceb> http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfcbooster/indexen.htm
[11:50] <Laurenceb> more like WTF booster
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> Sigh
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> But it's patented by Tesla!
[11:54] <Laurenceb> bbl
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> Me too
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[12:01] <WillTablet> Hi
[12:02] <WillTablet> Soldering SMD sounds really difficult.
[12:03] <HixWork> depends, ATMEga surprisingly not too bad at all MAX6 is an arse imho
[12:03] <WillTablet> (Need to convince my now-retired granddad that his 15w he got when he started his job in electronics isn't up to it)
[12:03] <WillTablet> Same tip, too.
[12:03] <mattbrejza> does it have a fine tip?
[12:04] <WillTablet> Not really.
[12:04] <WillTablet> Think it's a chisel tip (or was one)
[12:05] <mattbrejza> you need a tip that can make contact with the GPS contact and the PCB pad
[12:05] <WillTablet> http://mobile.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=35016 that seems fine
[12:05] <mattbrejza> a too big one wont be able to get into the small corner
[12:05] <WillTablet> Spike point tip.
[12:06] <mattbrejza> itll do the job
[12:06] <mattbrejza> also some fine solder and a flux pen
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[12:15] <HixWork> WillTablet these guys are pretty good http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/soldering-irons-1.html
[12:20] <Babs> hixwork - found it. 530kv
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[12:21] <Babs> so torquey but not fast.
[12:21] <HixWork> hmm, its not as low as i had thought. there are RC motors in the mid 800s KV. but they are 20-30 turns
[12:22] <HixWork> i still think in the grand scheme of things its still way quicker at 530Kv than is needed though
[12:22] <HixWork> intersting to see how low a Kv you can get
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[12:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV2vxYYD8P0 Neat!
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Onboard footage from a firefighting helicopter
[12:38] <Laurenceb> wow
[12:38] <Laurenceb> tricky filling
[12:40] <Laurenceb> some mad skills
[12:40] <mattbrejza> looks like hes nicking someones pond water
[12:42] <fsphil> hope there where no fish in there
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[12:43] <fsphil> that's impressive flying
[12:47] <Babs> every helicopter pilot you ever meet knows another one who has died
[12:47] <Babs> you can in that vid
[12:51] <Darkside> Babs: same with glider pilots
[12:52] <Babs> true. gliders are only going one way ultimately. its just a question of timing in terms of when you hit the ground.
[12:52] <Babs> but helicopters have so much to go wrong in them.
[12:54] <gonzo__> the only reason they fly, is that they are so ugly, the ground reples them
[12:55] <gonzo__> they are as aesthetic as crane flys
[12:55] <Babs> there was a mad plane in the 1980s i remember them marketing, it used a bubble off a heli at the front and they reckoned it could fly at 30mph
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[12:56] <HixWork> I have heard them described as 50,000 pieces of metal rivetted together, trying to shake themselves apart
[12:56] <HixWork> I like the whole Jesus nut principle best though
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[12:57] <HixWork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_nut
[12:57] <gonzo__> there's a stol a/c with short wings and vectoring prop engine pods that the police used to use in the midlands
[12:58] <Babs> i remember it being a traffic cop plane for motorway monitoring
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[12:59] <Babs> i had a jesus nut on BABHAB. only it was a bearing.
[12:59] <Babs> I put the cat in a basket and hung it off it to test it. cats are better at uncontrolled landings than helicopters (or BABSHAB for that matter)
[13:01] <gonzo__> jesus nuts usually have a guitar and sandles don't they?
[13:02] <gonzo__> looking a bit like folkies, except the latter usually have a tankerd in their hand
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> gonzo__: And a safety wire.
[13:05] <gonzo__> I should be carefull what I say, I'm at a folk festival at the weekend
[13:10] <staylo> Babs: That plane was the Edgley Optica. I don't think it was vectoring though, just a ducted fan.
[13:11] <staylo> Edgley also designed a glider made out of fibreboard :)
[13:11] <Joel_re> does everyone file for NOTAMs?
[13:11] <Joel_re> before a launch :p
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Joel_re: We don't talk to the ones that don't.
[13:12] <gonzo__> certainly not after!
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> It's a really bad idea not to, for a number of reasons.
[13:12] <Joel_re> ok.
[13:12] <Joel_re> well yeah, just thinking
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> YThough, yes, it is inconvenient.
[13:12] <Joel_re> there isnt a clear process here
[13:12] <fsphil> yse it could be easier
[13:13] <Joel_re> what do you guys have to do
[13:13] <Joel_re> to file NOTAMs, whats the process like
[13:13] <fsphil> send a form in 28 days before
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Joel_re: Where are you?
[13:13] <Joel_re> SpeedEvil: India
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[13:13] <fsphil> then complain in 48 days after you don't hear back
[13:13] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> I have no idea what the process is in india.
[13:13] <Joel_re> fsphil: ok
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> The stereotypical answer would be 'find the right person to hand a small wad of money to'.
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> But I've no idea if this is in fact accurate.
[13:14] <Babs> the optica! thats it, good memory staylo. i think the company went bust, i just remember seeing it on tomorrow's world.
[13:14] <Joel_re> which means I need decide on a launch date over a month earlier
[13:14] <Babs> where i also saw the first solid state gyro, which i am now using (not the first one, clearly).
[13:14] <Joel_re> and I have clue which direction my balloon will head :\
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> Joel_re: In general - it's the body similar to the CAA/FAA that you probably want
[13:15] <Joel_re> any idea if the Meterological(can't spell) dept files NOTAMs?
[13:15] <Joel_re> I could try asking them what the process is like
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Joel_re: It depends on the country
[13:15] <fsphil> the uk met office don't use notams
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> That's a reasonable thing to do
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes govenrment has waivers
[13:15] <gonzo__> that is the problem we have in the UK. So it's usual to ask for bpermission to launch on a few dates, Then you hope one of them will have winds going in a useable dircetion
[13:15] <Joel_re> gonzo__: noted
[13:16] <fsphil> yea I normally apply for a couple of weekends
[13:16] <gonzo__> I would have thought that the met office have permenant notams for their sites?
[13:16] <fsphil> they don't appear on notaminfo gonzo__
[13:16] <gonzo__> interesting
[13:17] <AndroUser2> Why is it I can't find anything on the internet that says sarantel have gone bust?
[13:17] <Joel_re> fsphil: ah I was wondering the same, I couldnt find any MET dept NOTAMs
[13:17] Nick change: AndroUser2 -> WillTablet
[13:17] <fsphil> so they probably have an exception to the rules
[13:18] <WillTablet> There's nothing on their website.
[13:18] <mattbrejza> the met office might own the airspace also
[13:18] <Joel_re> what altitude do the balloons from met depts reach?
[13:18] <gonzo__> Babs, yep the optica. There is a different design which looks like a twin engine light a/c, but the engine pods can be rotated to point upwards, allowing stol (possibly even vtol?)
[13:19] <fsphil> it varies. the sondes launched locally to me get to about 27km
[13:19] <fsphil> but some go over 30km
[13:19] <Joel_re> oh so they do go all the way
[13:19] <fsphil> the predictions for saturday's met sonde has it maybe landing near me
[13:19] <fsphil> I might try recovering it
[13:20] <x-f> midday or midnight one?
[13:20] <fsphil> midnight
[13:20] <x-f> uff
[13:20] <fsphil> well I'll track it down, then head out in the morning :)
[13:20] <x-f> you know, it won't transmit on the morning
[13:21] <fsphil> if it does land nearby I should have a good position
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[13:24] <Joel_re> http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/01/launching-weather-balloon/
[13:24] <Joel_re> who launches balloons with "a few pounds"
[13:24] <Joel_re> stupid post
[13:26] <Babs> *babs backs away, whistling to himself and looking into the air
[13:29] <gonzo__> pounds money or pounds weight!
[13:30] <craag> Joel_re: Hence the UKHAS conf talk: "Heavy Payloads aka Ballooning in the US"
[13:32] <craag> I'm assuming it means weight..
[13:33] <Joel_re> heh
[13:33] <Babs> arko has an awesome story about the components in his first payload vs. what everyone is doing now
[13:34] <gonzo__> $40,000 compensation for sonde damage? I think that was their whole met office liability, mostly incured in bumps and scrapes with met office vehicles
[13:35] <gonzo__> From mem it was a few £100 for sondes
[13:35] <craag> Yeah it was something like £200 a year for UK met office? mainly for greenhouse windows.
[13:35] <gonzo__> and half of that was one sone caught in power cabl;es
[13:35] <craag> ah, and that..
[13:36] <gonzo__> there was a parked car windscreen. But I recon to crack car glass you'd have to fire the sonde at it from a connon
[13:36] <gonzo__> cannon
[13:36] <gonzo__> someone being cheeky and making a claim I recon
[13:37] <craag> Could have been as issue with the chute (or lack of).
[13:38] <gonzo__> I'd even doubt that. The sonde bats are not that heavy and the polystyrene box would reduce the effect
[13:38] <gonzo__> though, modetn ones are pl;astic cases..... I withdraw my objection m'load
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[14:06] Nick change: Guest77439 -> nigelvh
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[14:37] <Bo_DK_Working> Afternoon all
[14:37] <Bo_DK_Working> anyone that are good with schematics and eagle that have time to eyeball an BBB cape i'm doing?
[14:38] <Bo_DK_Working> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ffhrigdf29zb5om/CdkEst8aoL
[14:40] <Bo_DK_Working> bbl... need to pick an bucket full of appels
[14:42] <Survivor> Quick question: The connector string which connects the balloon, and the parachute. Does it have any other use, rather than just connecting? (Its for a theoritical project)
[14:42] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[14:49] <x-f> wat
[14:50] <craag> Survivor: I think the answer is no. A longer string helps stability though.
[14:51] <x-f> sometimes the parachute-payload string supports the antenna or part of it, if the antenna is that long
[14:52] <craag> Yep, for HF antennas.
[14:52] <fsphil> can bt used to pull the payload out of the tree it inevitibly lands in
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[14:53] <Bo_DK_Working> back... apples not ready for picking... half of them have brown spots alleady
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[14:56] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Working: it's annoying huh! by the time they're ready half of them are bad
[14:56] <gonzo__> cut into short length, tieing up small parcels, attaching notes to pigeons legs, destroying household pests
[14:56] <Randomskk> two apple trees out my window are getting there
[14:56] <Randomskk> but a while yet I think
[14:56] <Babs> it is also used to carry the burst balloon back into the parachute to ensure the parachute is fouled on the way down
[14:57] <Randomskk> Babs: haha
[14:57] <Babs> Randomskk - my experience!
[15:10] <Laurenceb> http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2013/08/long-open-thread-elons-hyperloop.html
[15:10] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:10] <Laurenceb> haters gunna hate
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[15:14] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q
[15:15] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[15:16] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk yah... 830 grams i got.... now lets see how mouch apple juice that gives
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[15:16] <Randomskk> what's that, 8 apples?
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[15:20] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm.... yeah...
[15:20] <Bo_DK_Working> a 10 liter bucket with only the buttom filled
[15:20] <Bo_DK_Working> ie not even 2 layers of aples
[15:20] <Bo_DK_Working> its running through a filter now
[15:21] <Bo_DK_Working> just to get to juice only
[15:21] <Bo_DK_Working> thou a bit of apple would not hurt
[15:24] <Bo_DK_Working> looking at my cape and trying to figure if there are errors etc
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[15:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/254449872/pixy-cmucam5-a-fast-easy-to-use-vision-sensor
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[15:33] <Babs> Those Where's Wally games will be a piece of p from now on if that works properly
[15:33] <eroomde> i'd really like a laser range finder for less money
[15:34] <eroomde> http://www.robotshop.com/hokuyo-utm-03lx-laser-scanning-rangefinder-2.html
[15:34] <eroomde> that thing is the jizz, but pricey
[15:35] <Babs> Very Teminator 2 eroomde
[15:36] <Babs> (Or any Terminator film for that matter)
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[15:37] <eroomde> they'd be just the thing for flying a hab in through a window
[15:37] <eroomde> combined with out gps
[15:37] <eroomde> if it had a steerable parachute
[15:38] <Brace> eroomde: tacos by hab?
[15:38] <eroomde> they might be cold by the time they arrive
[15:38] <Babs> where did you get to with that steerable parachute idea btw?
[15:39] <Brace> surely that's fixable!
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[15:41] <eroomde> Babs, the steerable chute is the in drawer
[15:41] <eroomde> there is no room for anything that isn't a rocket atm
[15:42] <eroomde> despite that i've just agreed to do some more hab stuff
[15:42] <eroomde> which is seeming like a silly decision
[15:42] <mattbrejza> hows the gps? :P
[15:44] <eroomde> fine!
[15:44] <eroomde> I just can't really talk about 99% of what we do
[15:44] <eroomde> but it's seeing real use in interesting problems
[15:44] <mattbrejza> i was just wondering what place it was in the queue
[15:44] <mattbrejza> but if its for work i guess that means its near the front
[15:44] <eroomde> well, it's developed enough to scartch the current itch
[15:45] <eroomde> it's not real-time yet though
[15:45] <eroomde> but that's not massively on the radar as a useful thing atm
[15:45] Action: SpeedEvil keeps idly wondering about hyperloops really awesome heat exchanger, and wondering if that's what ed's really working on.
[15:45] <eroomde> that would be yawn
[15:45] <mattbrejza> the dual band thing looks promising though
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: :)
[15:46] <eroomde> yes, dual freq is super interesting
[15:46] <eroomde> that's next on my list
[15:46] <eroomde> i've already been playing a bit
[15:46] <eroomde> but i need to make a decent front end card for my fpga dev board to gather some decent datasets
[15:46] <eroomde> but that's about 17th on the list of PCBs i need to make
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[15:47] <eroomde> and it actually is about 17th too
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about if you can use the top and bottom of teh L1 codes to get information that way
[15:47] <eroomde> the list is a long one
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Correlate seperately carrier + and carrier -
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> and detect the skew
[15:48] <eroomde> yes, i remember you mentioning that. but i'm not sure that really helps you solve the integer wavelength problem
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> possibly not
[15:48] Action: SpeedEvil should probably confess that he doesn't remember what the integer wavelength problem is.
[15:49] <eroomde> well, i mean in terms of your uncertainty being specifically which carrier wavelength you're in
[15:49] <eroomde> you can measure the phase
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:49] <eroomde> but you don't really know if it's in this unit square of wavelength or the one next to you
[15:49] <eroomde> if you see what i mean
[15:50] <eroomde> and i think having the extra freq a decent distance away helps you get enough of a difference in wavelengths to disambiguate
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> You mean so you don't have to integrate forever to pick up if the edge of the clock
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> is here, or one along
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Or is it more complex
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/254449872/pixy-cmucam5-a-fast-easy-to-use-vision-sensor - unrelated
[15:52] <eroomde> did you not just link to that?
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:52] Action: SpeedEvil is only 43.8% awake.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> yes
[15:52] <Babs> he was viewing the link through the pixycam. it didn't pick it up the first time around.
[15:54] <eroomde> and in response i said i wanted one of these
[15:54] <eroomde> http://www.hokuyo-aut.jp/02sensor/07scanner/utm_30lx.html
[15:54] <eroomde> or at least soemthing as good but kickstarted into cheapness
[15:54] <eroomde> those are the SLAM indoor thing-du-choix
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Neat
[15:55] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[15:55] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he'd got his laser ranger built.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Though it was more aimed at 10-5km ranges
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[15:56] <eroomde> that's quite far!
[15:56] <HixWork> Just before i leave eroomde you can get laser ride-height sensors, which would probably do for your needs..
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[15:56] <eroomde> you'd either need some human-killing laser power or decent laser modulation/coding
[15:57] <eroomde> HixWork, this things sweep the whole field of view infront of them
[15:57] <eroomde> at 40Hz
[15:57] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw6cVugKAEw
[15:58] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon
[15:59] <Bo_DK_Working> BBL...
[15:59] <mattbrejza> theyre gonna have to get cheaper if they want to mount them on self driving cars
[15:59] <eroomde> that let's you quite easily do things like Simultaneous Localisation and Mapping (SLAM), eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMSozUpFFkU
[15:59] <eroomde> mattbrejza, yup
[15:59] <eroomde> let's hope that's the impetus
[16:00] <mattbrejza> i want the quadcopter scanner system though
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Basically, a couple of lenses, a 100mW 780nm (IIRC) laser, a 10nm (IIRC) filter, and frequency sweep a squarewave from 1MHz-100MHz or so.
[16:04] <eroomde> nice
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Then do evnvelope detectoin on the self-correlated signal
[16:05] <eroomde> my gut feeling (spot the person who has been working on gps) would be to modulate it with a pseudorandom sequence
[16:05] <eroomde> and correlate
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> I agree
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> This was to cheat
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> And avoid ~1GHz logic - while still getting most of the benefits
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[16:06] <Survivor> Qucik question: What material is the parachute made of?
[16:06] <eroomde> you wouldn't need it that fast surely?
[16:06] <Survivor> Quick*
[16:06] <eroomde> any old 74 series stuff would do
[16:06] <eroomde> could just modulate at a few MHz
[16:06] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Well - not 1GHz, admittedly
[16:07] <eroomde> Survivor, there is no single answer to that, it depends on what the builder decided to make it out of
[16:07] <eroomde> but rip-stop nylon is the most common
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Survivor: Dairylea is generally bad
[16:07] <eroomde> Survivor, why do you want to know?
[16:08] <Survivor> mine is a theoritical project, so I just want to know what materials are generally used
[16:08] <Survivor> the main aim is to get the lightest config
[16:08] <eroomde> oh yes i remember
[16:08] <eroomde> the 'can I use IRC' thesis
[16:09] <Randomskk> I think this is even the second such, wasn't someone else doing this as a tech project for school?
[16:09] <Survivor> a lot many people from my class are doing it..
[16:09] <eroomde> i'm assuming you have to actually site something as a reference other than 'some guys on the internet' so go for 'The Parachute Recovery Systems Design Manual' by T. Knacke
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> Survivor: Graphene sheet, reinforced by a carbon nanotube mesh.
[16:10] <eroomde> cite*
[16:10] <Randomskk> expensive, but performant
[16:10] <eroomde> for a £20 donation I will give you a chaper and page number too
[16:11] <craag> haha
[16:11] <Survivor> wow.. and I thought the people here were helpful, but all I get is rude replies
[16:12] <Randomskk> you got helpful replies too
[16:12] <eroomde> yes
[16:12] <Randomskk> but also a lot of your questions can probably be answered by reading the wiki, searching the internet or consulting common sense, so
[16:12] <Survivor> Thanks for the helpful replies folks.. really appreciate it
[16:13] <Randomskk> those questions will probably get more terse or amusing answers
[16:13] <Babs> That's not the worst part. I can't get "Eye of the Tiger" out of my head now.
[16:13] <Randomskk> haha
[16:13] <daveake> We've had at least 2 IDs here asking the same questions. None of them can spell "theoretical"
[16:14] <eroomde> it's not so much you personally, just despair at the sate of higher education
[16:14] <eroomde> state*
[16:14] <eroomde> that this counts as masters-worthy stuff
[16:14] <Randomskk> wait, this is masters stuff?
[16:14] <eroomde> and yes, you're not the first
[16:14] <eroomde> apparently so!
[16:14] <eroomde> astonishing isn't it
[16:15] <Randomskk> I thought this was a secondary school project
[16:15] <Babs> eroomde - you should have done exams when i was a lad
[16:15] <daveake> yup
[16:15] <Babs> they were difficult then
[16:15] <daveake> If we're playing that card ... :p
[16:15] <mattbrejza> you still have to do actual work of your own here and make stuff, so not all hope is lost
[16:15] <Babs> did you do all of your calcs on a wax tablet and stylus daveake?
[16:15] <eroomde> ina toga
[16:16] <daveake> scratched the answers into a lump of rock
[16:16] <Babs> awww man. i wish i had some photoshop dark arts skills
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[16:17] <Randomskk> oh I think this is the same person as I was thinknig of before anyway
[16:17] <Randomskk> and yes, MSc aerospace. huh.
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[16:24] <eroomde> I hope you've survived your time on IRC, Survivor
[16:24] <Randomskk> that was terrible. you were just waiting for daveake to leave so he wouldn't see
[16:25] <eroomde> but srsly, you presumably do need decent sitations for this stuff
[16:25] <eroomde> otherwise i simply can't see that the exercise has any point at all
[16:25] <eroomde> we can help with citations
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know who wrote dl-fldigi?
[16:26] <Randomskk> not a short list
[16:26] <Randomskk> fldigi itself is a big open source project
[16:27] <Randomskk> the dl part authors include jcoxon and danielrichman but there are others..
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> Right, would it be possible to write something that extracted the decoded information from dl-fldigi and into a separate python program?
[16:27] <eroomde> yes
[16:27] <eroomde> infact it's super easy
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> Oh my god! :D
[16:27] <eroomde> toggle the 'turn on log' thing in dl-fldigi
[16:27] <Randomskk> though you should probably think carefully about why you want to do that
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll contain my excitment
[16:27] <eroomde> then you have a file you can log too
[16:28] <Randomskk> or just use the rpc interface it already provides
[16:28] <eroomde> and you can just read that in python however you want
[16:28] <eroomde> or that
[16:28] <Randomskk> which lets you access what it's receiving and muck about with all the settings and stuff
[16:28] <eroomde> my methods are based on 2007 technology :)
[16:28] <ibanezmatt13> Yes! That's exactly what I need. I like the idea of writing to a file which I can read from python
[16:28] <eroomde> well it probably had rpc in 2007
[16:28] <ibanezmatt13> is the rpc interface complicated?
[16:28] <eroomde> my methods are based on how it was done quickly to get stuff up onto the forerunner of the dl system
[16:29] <Randomskk> import xmlrpclib; s = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:7362"); dial_freq = s.main.get_frequency()
[16:29] <eroomde> which was just have a python script that parsed a log file of telem from whatever program people were using
[16:29] <DanielRichman> ibanezmatt13: Why do you want to do that? If you just want the data, you can get it from habitat after the flight
[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> It goes like this. I need to write a program which sends a twitter message based on reaching a certain altitude of the tracker
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[16:29] <Randomskk> but yea, see my earlier comment about thinking carefully about why you want to do it
[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> The moment it hits altitude x, send twitter message
[16:30] <ibanezmatt13> Just wondering what the simplest way to do it would be
[16:30] <DanielRichman> You may find it easier to use habitat's api than dl-fldigi's
[16:30] <Randomskk> running on the payload itself or on the ground?
[16:30] <Randomskk> if it's running on your computer (doing the tracking) then you should definitely be using habitat instead
[16:30] <ibanezmatt13> Well, it would have to run on the ground to ensure there was a signal
[16:30] <Randomskk> if it's running on the payload then it wouldn't make sense to be using fl-digi anyway so I assume that's not the case
[16:30] <Randomskk> yea, use habitat, much easier
[16:30] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, habitat it is
[16:31] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/ click your payload on the list, click the altitude tickbox
[16:31] <Randomskk> then copy the JSON link
[16:31] <Randomskk> in python
[16:31] <DanielRichman> note that it will be tied to that specific payload configuration, if you change it - you'll need to update the ID (the large hexadecimal string in the link you end up with)
[16:31] <Randomskk> import requests, json; r = requests.get("that_link"); r.json()[-1]["altitude"]
[16:32] <Randomskk> will get the latest altitude
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> fantastic!
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> So I need to install json and requests?
[16:32] <Randomskk> also easy to get any other data you care about
[16:32] <Randomskk> json is part of python
[16:32] <Randomskk> you will need python-requests
[16:32] <Randomskk> it's in the apt repos for ubuntu, or just sudo pip install requests
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> is that already installed?
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[16:32] <Randomskk> if that's a huge problem you can use urllib instead, but requests is much easier.
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[16:33] <eroomde> seconded based on only a litte experience with both ^
[16:33] <eroomde> Randomskk, did you see docopt?
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Must I import json?
[16:33] <Randomskk> yea it was all over hn
[16:33] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: yes
[16:33] <Randomskk> eroomde: v cute
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> and it's already in by default
[16:34] <eroomde> Randomskk, yes, i saw it on reddit. I was impressed. I've already used it in a couple of things
[16:34] <Randomskk> how'd it work out?
[16:34] <Randomskk> doing good command line interfaces is always worth while and often just boring enough that I don't bother, so it'd be nice to make it easier
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> altitude=r.json()[-1]["altitude"] That right?
[16:34] <number10> if you want stuff from you local machine running fldigi you can get it from localhost port 7322
[16:35] <eroomde> Randomskk, precisely my reasoning too
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[16:35] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: sure, that's about right. I mean, check out what r.json() really contains and make sure you knwo what's going on
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> will do, thanks
[16:35] <Randomskk> but I think that should do what you want. maybe it should be 0 instead of -1, I can't remember
[16:35] <eroomde> i usually look at argparse and thing 'meh' and just doing something super-bodge and quick with sys.blah
[16:35] <eroomde> but this made me actually make the effort to do a nice job
[16:35] <eroomde> and it was totes worth it
[16:35] <Randomskk> yea exactly
[16:35] <Randomskk> sounds good
[16:36] <eroomde> and it's declarative
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> br
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> b
[16:36] <eroomde> which is increasingly how i like thinking
[16:36] <Randomskk> declarative is good
[16:37] <eroomde> isn't it
[16:50] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
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[16:53] <Willdude123> Hi
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[17:03] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know how to extract a .tar.gz file in windows?
[17:04] <craag> use 7-zip
[17:04] <Willdude123> Or winRAR
[17:04] <ibanezmatt13> Right
[17:04] <Willdude123> Hi ibanezmatt13
[17:04] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Will
[17:04] <Willdude123> Should I run the autorouter with the default settings?
[17:04] <ibanezmatt13> never
[17:04] <ibanezmatt13> manually route
[17:05] <jonsowman> correct
[17:05] <Willdude123> Never manually route? Why?
[17:05] <jonsowman> the autorouter is useless
[17:05] <jonsowman> you'll do a much better job yourself
[17:05] <ibanezmatt13> Will, there's a lot more pride in manually routing anyway
[17:05] <Willdude123> Heh
[17:06] <Willdude123> Why?
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> My boards arrived today and they're so cool
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> Just take my word for it :)
[17:06] <Willdude123> Do you have any photos?
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> not yet
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> later
[17:06] <jonsowman> it has no concept of which traces are high current so need to be thicker, analogue signals so need to be not right next to high frequency digital comms lines
[17:06] <jonsowman> etc etc
[17:07] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[17:07] <Willdude123> Can you help me with that ibanezmatt13 ?
[17:08] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> In the past few hours, something major has cropped up that needs sorting. Probably not tonight I'm afraid, but practice makes perfect
[17:11] <Willdude123> OK
[17:12] <Willdude123> What, a technical issue?
[17:12] <Willdude123> Erm so how do I practice?
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[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> Watch videos, experiment, and play :)
[17:14] <Willdude123> Uhuh. So err does anyone want to help me through the hellish process of PCB design>
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> I learned the basics watching hackadays video tutorials, but the guy is a bit awkward
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> Just have a play and ask questions when you get stuck
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> brb
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[17:17] <Willdude123> But what about those ground pour things? And ground planes?
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[17:25] <Willdude123> And all that crap I don't understand
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[17:35] <Willdude123> This confuses me
[17:35] <Willdude123> How do I know whether to put a connection on the top or bottom?
[17:36] Action: Willdude123 bashes head against desk
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> It's somewhat arbitrary
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> but clearly it can be mechanically ueful to have components on only one side of the board
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[17:43] <mikestir> Willdude123: (assuming you are talking about pcb routing, since I just came in) you might want to aim for left-right on one side and up-down on the other
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[17:44] <mikestir> although obviously you don't have to be that strict
[17:44] <mikestir> this can have advantages for signal integrity
[17:52] <Willdude123> Hmmm
[17:52] <Willdude123> Not sure what all this ground pour stuff is.
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[17:55] <mikestir> in what respect? you mean why it's done?
[17:55] <Willdude123> Yeah, and how to make one and where to put it.
[17:56] <Willdude123> I don't think my version of Eagle supports having tracks along the side
[17:56] <mikestir> you use the polygon tool
[17:56] <mikestir> and then name it according to the net you want it to connect up with
[17:57] <mikestir> don't try to make a fill using the track tool
[17:57] <Willdude123> How big should a ground plane be?
[17:57] <mikestir> just fill the boar
[17:57] <mikestir> d
[17:58] <craag> Yeah route everything else first
[17:58] <craag> Then fill the empty areas
[17:58] <mikestir> yes you don't need to worry about routing around your tracks
[17:58] <mikestir> polygon around the outside and eagle will automatically leave gaps around your tracks
[17:59] <Willdude123> On both sides>
[17:59] <mikestir> the reason we use ground pours is because the ground needs to have as low an impedance as possible
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[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> Evening Y'all
[18:00] <mikestir> evening
[18:00] <Willdude123> And where do the ground tracks go to before I have a ground plane?
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> I'm struggling to install a certain python module into Python on windows. Could anybody shine a bit of light?
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> It's dead easy to install on Linux but insanely confusing on Windows
[18:00] <mikestir> you don't need to route them really - if you assign the fill to the GND net then the connections will happen automatically
[18:00] <fsphil> the solution seems obvious ibanezmatt13 :)
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> Google is futile
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> obvious? :)
[18:02] <Willdude123> mikestir, So I won't draw any ground tracks for the moment.
[18:02] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, stick with linux :)
[18:02] <mikestir> you could do so that you're certain you haven't cut anywhere off
[18:02] <mikestir> but I don't usually bother
[18:03] <mikestir> remember if you ground fill both sides you can add vias to interconnect any islands
[18:03] <Willdude123> Right so I'll just draw the ground pours.
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> x-f: I really need to be able to dev this code on Windows
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[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> it's far more convenient
[18:03] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, do you want access to my VPS? I'm not doing much on it at the moment and you can have an account on it if you want.
[18:04] <Willdude123> Might be better to run code on a server if it's tweeting altitudes.
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> Nah it's ok Will. If I can install this module into python on my windows pc I'm sorted
[18:06] <Willdude123> Do(es) the ground pour(s) go on both layers?
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> For your board yeah
[18:09] <Willdude123> Right so what now?http://imgur.com/wExsHtV
[18:10] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, spin that ublox 180
[18:10] <chrisstubbs> You will see it makes the air wires a little simpler
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[18:12] <Willdude123> Signal N$4 contains an invalid polygon
[18:14] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, join.me might be helpful
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[18:15] <Willdude123> K lemme just close my porn :P
[18:16] Action: Willdude123 was actually joking there.
[18:16] <Willdude123> https://join.me/394-484-471
[18:17] <chrisstubbs> okay PM time so we dont clutter up #HA
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[18:20] <x-f> hello
[18:21] <x-f> mikestir, i have feature request for WebRadio - add caching headers to all static files, otherwise it loads quite slowly
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[18:23] <x-f> mikestir, removing all whitespace from /tuners/*/waterfall would save some 4-5 KB too
[18:23] <x-f> and that's every 200 ms (iirc)
[18:24] <mattbrejza> how does the waterfall work?
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:24] <x-f> hello, Kevin
[18:24] <mattbrejza> if i were doing it i would probably send one line at a time and get the client to render
[18:25] <x-f> waterfall is a json with signal levels for one horizontal line each time
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[18:27] <mattbrejza> and one line is 4-5KB?
[18:27] <x-f> mattbrejza, http://pastebin.com/g3cYNCvW
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[18:27] <x-f> 4 KB is whitespace
[18:28] <mattbrejza> oh i see now
[18:28] <mattbrejza> also to that precision isnt needed
[18:28] <x-f> but for science..
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[18:31] <x-f> anyway WebRadio is working nicely for me, i listen to commercial FM stations for now
[18:32] <x-f> can't wait to see it with all the features implemented
[18:32] <mattbrejza> would be nice if it could be a platform to implement new modes
[18:34] <mikestir> x-f: mattbrejza: sorry just got back. I just use jsoncpp's pretty-printer for now
[18:34] <mikestir> there's a whitespace-less version which should be an easy substitution
[18:34] <mikestir> and I thought about doing a binary version
[18:34] <mattbrejza> minor thing to change
[18:34] <mikestir> mattbrejza: the waterfall is rendered using HTML5 canvas
[18:35] <mikestir> i've got the optimised decimation filter working. it will demod narrowband stuff on the pi now
[18:35] <mattbrejza> do you use CIC?
[18:36] <mikestir> yes
[18:36] <mikestir> now
[18:36] <mattbrejza> so just additions on ints?
[18:36] <mattbrejza> (i seem to remember)
[18:36] <mikestir> before it just let the FIR channel filter do the decimation, so it had to be really long because of the high decimation ratio
[18:36] <mattbrejza> yea that must have needed a massive FIR filter
[18:37] <mattbrejza> like 1000 or so
[18:37] <mikestir> yes CIC is just fixed point adds
[18:37] <mikestir> that was why I had to re-hash the DSP chain to support both fixed and floating point
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[18:37] <mikestir> you can't do it in floating point because the overflows have to cancel exactly in the comb stages
[18:37] <mattbrejza> well the input is fixed point? (either soundcard or SDR)
[18:38] <mattbrejza> so then convert to float after decimation
[18:38] <mikestir> that's what it does
[18:38] <mikestir> it's all done in the downconverter
[18:38] <mattbrejza> you could keep as ints i guess, but then it gets annoying to keep track of the dp
[18:38] <mikestir> there's a fixed point sin/cos table-based NCO for the downconversion, which then feeds straight into the CIC, then the output is converted to float
[18:39] <mattbrejza> i just used doubles in the android app, would probably run faster with ints, but the most cpu part is the mapping
[18:39] <mattbrejza> so cba in the end
[18:40] <mattbrejza> btw if you implement a fsk decoder, please keep the output as soft information :)
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:41] <mikestir> floats and ints should be equally fast on most modern CPUs, but a lot of ARMs (e.g. pi and I guess a lot of smartphones) only have a single precision FPU, so doubles could be more expensive
[18:42] <mikestir> I think NEON supports float SIMD, and SSE3 certainly does on the pc
[18:42] <mattbrejza> i guess double is a bit ott, nothing to change to single
[18:42] <mikestir> some architectures might have fixed-point SIMD only
[18:42] <mattbrejza> also not sure the java vm on android will use SIMD
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[18:44] <mikestir> mattbrejza: what coding do you have in mind with a soft FSK demodulator?
[18:44] <mattbrejza> turbo
[18:44] <craag> :)
[18:45] <mattbrejza> craag isnt surprised
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know how to install pip onto a Pi?
[18:45] <craag> Are you going to have it running on a real-world FSK link by the conf?
[18:45] <Randomskk> sudo easy_install pip
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> wow, thanks
[18:45] <mikestir> would you want the demodulator to do clock recovery?
[18:45] <Randomskk> though why are you putting it on the pi? isn't the pi the flight hardware?
[18:45] <mattbrejza> na craag
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> This is another Pi Randomskk, my dev Pi :)
[18:46] <fsphil> Randomskk: trying to fit as many package managers on one command as you can?
[18:46] <Randomskk> ah fe
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> Also, I need to install easy_install don't I?
[18:46] <Randomskk> fsphil: that's like a common way to install pip
[18:46] <Randomskk> depends
[18:46] <Randomskk> I assumed you already have it
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> nah
[18:46] <Randomskk> if you don't then just sudo apt-get install python-pip
[18:46] <mattbrejza> mikestir: yea i think probably best, just have the demod output LLRs and let the next piece in the chain worry about what to do with them
[18:46] <Randomskk> I mean, it's commonly preinstalled on ubuntu and debian
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, thanks
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> coolit worked
[18:47] <mikestir> ok. someone at work is nagging me to implement DAB :)
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi Randomskk, got my head around the footprints today
[18:47] <mikestir> so I might end up with a cofdm demod as well
[18:47] <mattbrejza> :P
[18:47] <fsphil> 434mhz is going to be a mess in Greenwich next month
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> in fact got myself an inductor and a SMA connector footprint online
[18:47] <mikestir> it may be easier to just put in a shim to interface with gnuradio though!
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> kicad libraries or so
[18:47] <mattbrejza> just make it nice and easy for people to implement what they wat
[18:48] <mattbrejza> fsk should be easy enough to do from scratch though, dab on the other hand
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, now still have to make the batteries, BMP085, GPS and microSD breakout
[18:49] <mikestir> well cofdm demod is just FFT, but I have no idea how the frequency estimation and locking works
[18:49] <mikestir> I will have to consult my DSP books
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> I mean that I want to have, on the board, the spaces for these parts, i.e. that you have a box printed where the part is supposed to me
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> be
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> also not to get into the way of other parts
[18:49] <Randomskk> "just" fft, uh huh :P
[18:49] <mattbrejza> in theory its all nice, but then you get into cyclic prefix and all this stuff
[18:49] <mikestir> Randomskk: well it is, after you've done the hard bit :p
[18:49] <Randomskk> and rotating pilot tones
[18:50] <mattbrejza> and some lovely matrix equations
[18:50] <Randomskk> and it's got like a million stupid options you have to decode
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: I've got the altitude part working coming in from Habitat no probs. But I'm now trying to work out how to update a twitter status with this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4473320/twitter-api-simple-status-update-python
[18:51] <mikestir> yeah. btw if anyone is good on the HTML5/Javascript/jQuery side and wants to help with the UI then that would be good
[18:51] <mikestir> I'm just winging that bit really
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13> just a bit confused as to what token keys and secrets are...
[18:51] <mikestir> I'd like to find the time to do a native Android UI as well
[18:51] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: that's a three year old post from someone who doesn't have it working
[18:51] <Randomskk> I recommend finding a better tutorial
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> oh, ok :)
[18:52] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: isn't twitter OAuth based now?
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> never used it
[18:52] <mikestir> there's surely a python module for that
[18:52] <mattbrejza> mikestir: cant help on that bit
[18:53] <mikestir> right I'm off to get a chinese
[18:53] <mattbrejza> the bit i could help on (the fsk decoder) it seems you can probably do youself easily enough
[18:53] <danielsaul> ibanezmatt13: I'd recommend twython
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> Never heard of it
[18:53] <danielsaul> https://github.com/ryanmcgrath/twython
[18:53] <mikestir> mattbrejza: tbh I have way too much on my plate as it is so extra hands on any of it would be nice
[18:54] <danielsaul> and familiarise yourself with the twitter api and make yourself keys at https://dev.twitter.com/
[18:54] <mikestir> I'll get the basic receivers working well first and then if you can help with some of the digimode stuff it would be great
[18:54] <mattbrejza> mikestir: create a blank space for me to write it in and ill see what i can do
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> thanks danielsaul
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[18:56] <danielsaul> ibanezmatt13: np
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> Many of the examples for using Python with Twitter seem to only show how to read statusses as opposed to update your own
[18:59] <danielsaul> Take a look at that github page for twython, shows how to start it and then its as simple as "twitter.update_status(status='See how easy using Twython is!')"
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
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[19:00] <danielsaul> so on the twitter dev site, login using the account you want to tweet from and make an 'app' to get the app_key, secret, token etc.etc. and then it's just a couple of lines of python
[19:00] <danielsaul> in theory
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[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> Nice danielsaul. I'm just looking at that page and it looks good
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[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6298788
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13> Do I need the oauth bit/
[19:08] <danielsaul> nope, litterally import twython, twitter = Twython(keys etc.), twitter.update_status(status='bla')
[19:08] <Randomskk> well I mean you do need oauth
[19:08] <danielsaul> so yes, using OAuth, but the keys and secrets that twitter has already given you
[19:08] <Randomskk> you don't need twitter.get_home_timeline() I don't think
[19:08] <Randomskk> yea
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> for the keys that go in thatTwython function, is it just Twython(thekeybit, thesecretbit)
[19:10] <danielsaul> Twython(consumerkey, consumersecret, accesstoken, accesstokensecret)
[19:11] <danielsaul> all of which can be found on the twitter dev app page
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: ok, I'm trying to create an application on the dev site and I'm not sure what to put for the url
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> I don't have one :/
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> Yet it's required
[19:11] <danielsaul> anything, absolutely anything
[19:11] <danielsaul> umm
[19:11] <KF5WYX> Hi all - any hams in the room? I'm looking for the correct frequency HX-1 to purchase from radiometrix for use in N.America. A wiki on APRS sais "North America: 144.390 MHz (Voice Alert 100.0 Hz CTCSS, mobiles only please!)" is it ok to buy 144.390 or should I avoid that frequency?
[19:12] <danielsaul> ibanezmatt13: Stick the habitat url in or something
[19:12] <danielsaul> it doesn't matter
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> will that not cause habitat problems?
[19:12] <danielsaul> Nope, it's not a public facing app and you're not usign any callbacks so it really doesn't matter
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:13] <craag> KF5WYX: For US APRS, you want 144.390
[19:13] <fsphil> KF5WYX: 144.390 is correct
[19:13] <KF5WYX> Thankyou Craag & fsphil.
[19:13] <fsphil> it's 144.800 in europe
[19:13] Action: KF5WYX = MrCraig btw, just got my call sign.
[19:13] <fsphil> ooooooh shiney
[19:13] <craag> Congrats!
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok danielsaul, it's done. Can I log into Twitter to see the statuses?
[19:14] <KF5WYX> thanks :-) I now have a limited window of 10 years in which to fly my next payload before I have to relicense. Darn, that's gonna be tight *grin*
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[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: I want it to upload to my own twitter account though
[19:14] <danielsaul> Did you login to the twitter dev site with your own twitter account?
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> ph yes
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I did, I see
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[19:17] <danielsaul> Working?
[19:17] <ibanezmatt13> not installed twython yet but I've finished the code
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[19:17] <danielsaul> ah ok
[19:17] <ibanezmatt13> is it sudo apt-get install twython?
[19:17] <Randomskk> no
[19:17] <danielsaul> nope, use pip
[19:17] <Randomskk> apt-get only installs apt paackages - it miiiight exist as python-twython but unlikely
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> pip install python-twython
[19:18] <Randomskk> so use pip for python packages generally
[19:18] <Randomskk> sudo
[19:18] <danielsaul> pip install twython
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[19:18] <Randomskk> sudo !!
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> of course :)
[19:18] <Randomskk> (the !! means "the last command", I'm not being overly emphatic)
[19:18] <danielsaul> 'course not
[19:18] <danielsaul> :P
[19:18] <Randomskk> (as in, if you run a command and realise you should have used sudo, just run sudo !!)
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> aah
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul, File "twitter.py", line 3, in <module> OAUTH_TOKEN = final_step['oauth_token'] NameError: name 'final_step' is not defined
[19:20] <Randomskk> well you need to actually put your token in there...
[19:20] <daveake> http://xkcd.com/149/
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6298788
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> I did :
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[19:21] <Randomskk> now you're not using oauth at all
[19:21] <Randomskk> you might be missing a trick
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[19:21] <Randomskk> there are four magic strings you need from twitter
[19:21] <Randomskk> and you need to initialise twython with them
[19:21] <danielsaul> Twython(consumerkey, consumersecret, accesstoken, accesstokensecret)
[19:21] <danielsaul> should be 4
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> ah, I thought I didn't need oauth :/ Sorry
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: that's good
[19:23] <danielsaul> ibanezmatt13: http://cl.ly/image/383v0k1X2m0j
[19:23] <danielsaul> ah ok
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: I'm not sure what I need to put in for the oauth key and secret. Which one is it on that page?
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah, thank you
[19:24] <danielsaul> oauth key and secret are the access tokens at the bottom
[19:24] <danielsaul> app key and secret are the consumer ones
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> ah got it, thank you
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6298788
[19:26] <danielsaul> that looks about right, can get rid of oauth_token and oauth_token_secret variables now
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> what do you mean?
[19:26] <danielsaul> and you shouldn't really make the secrets public so you might want to get rid of the gist
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> oh
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[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> oh yes :/
[19:26] <danielsaul> just that you've left lines 3&4 in, can get rid of them
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> yeah didn't see that, thank you
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[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: Twitter API returned a 401 (Unauthorized), An error occurred processing your request.
[19:29] <danielsaul> Of course it wouldn't be that simple... umm
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> unauthorised?
[19:29] <Randomskk> probably got one of the keys wrong somewhere
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'll re paste them
[19:31] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[19:31] <danielsaul> ibanezmatt13: In the twitter dev site, have you got the app set to read and write?
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> read_only :/
[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> damn
[19:32] <danielsaul> That would be the problem
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[19:32] <ibanezmatt13> ok, just changed it
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[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> same error
[19:33] <danielsaul> You'll probably need to 'recreate my access token' too if you haven't already
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:33] <danielsaul> so that you get read+write ones
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[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> still not working
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> on the oauth settings page the tokens and secrets are different
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> that normal?
[19:35] <danielsaul> They've probably just changed from recreating them? did you copy over the new ones?
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> just doing it now
[19:36] <danielsaul> You'll get there eventually :)
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> ooh, think it worked
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> no error
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> program ended
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'll log in and check
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> HAHA! IT WORKED! :d
[19:37] <danielsaul> https://twitter.com/ibanezmatt13 yup :)
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> :D
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: Thank you so much! :D
[19:37] <danielsaul> no problem, now get it spitting out altitudes :D
[19:37] <Randomskk> what's up with the rest of your tweets
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> I've never used twitter
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> don't know :)
[19:38] <danielsaul> Might want to delete them...
[19:38] <danielsaul> The links are interesting
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> Ah it may be the dodgy ones...
[19:39] <Randomskk> if you've never used twitter
[19:39] <Randomskk> how do you imagine they were posted
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> no idea, I set up an account and didn't touch it since :
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> those tweets are quite worrying
[19:40] <Randomskk> perhaps you should change your password.
[19:40] <Randomskk> and I hope you didn't use it anywhere else.
[19:40] <Randomskk> and if you did you should probably change it there too.
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[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[19:41] <Randomskk> take it as given that whatever password you used with that account has been compromised, and associated with your email address and username
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> why the hell is my profile picture an egg
[19:41] <Randomskk> default twitter profile pic
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> Ok so my entire everything has been comprimised, marvellous
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> Joy
[19:42] <Randomskk> this is why you should use different passwords on everything
[19:42] <Randomskk> now is an _excellent_ time to start doing that
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> yea good idea
[19:42] <daveake> ooooops
[19:42] <Randomskk> I recommend something like LastPass
[19:42] <Randomskk> or KeePassX or 1Password
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> what's that
[19:43] <Randomskk> all three are password manages
[19:43] <Randomskk> they integrate into your browser
[19:43] <Randomskk> autofill passwords on websites
[19:43] <mattbrejza> or just write them down on a bit of paper
[19:43] <Randomskk> and generate ones for you
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> I'll get it thanks
[19:43] <Randomskk> so all your passwords can be 20 characters long, have symbols and numbers and everything
[19:43] <Upu> seen quite a few Twitter compromises this week
[19:43] <Randomskk> and all of them different
[19:43] <Randomskk> Upu: there was a big thing about this actually, very recently (today)
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: The boards arrived, they're lovely!
[19:43] <Randomskk> someone claims to have access to thousands of twitter tokens
[19:43] <Randomskk> which would be a big deal
[19:43] <Upu> pictures ibanezmatt13
[19:43] <Upu> hmm
[19:44] <Upu> Well Rob Harrison, KT5TK
[19:44] <Randomskk> but I think the hacks we've seen are probably unrelated
[19:44] <Randomskk> that's just as likely a weak twitter password
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, pics soon
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> danielsaul: Twitter API returned a 403 (Forbidden), Status is a duplicate
[19:49] <danielsaul> Yep, twitter is annoying and won't let you make duplicate tweets
[19:49] <danielsaul> It won't let you if you try on their website either
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> It's not a duplicate though... https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6299277
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> [Actual keys not used] ^^
[19:51] <danielsaul> interesting
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[19:51] <danielsaul> line 22 can be taken out of the while loop, doesn't need a new instance every time
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> ah right ok
[19:51] <danielsaul> but that should be fine
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> aha!
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> winscp didn't copy the file across properly. It's still the old file :)
[19:52] <danielsaul> haha
[19:52] <Willdude123> Upu just completed my board files.
[19:53] <Willdude123> Then eagle crashed.
[19:53] <Willdude123> And it's back to ground zero
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> "The Eagle is down"
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> lol
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[20:13] <Willdude123> Why are there a load of airwires between my vias?
[20:13] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/KZwQnUN
[20:13] <danielsaul> Because they're not connected to a plane yet
[20:14] <Willdude123> Ah shit I forgot my gnd plane
[20:14] <Willdude123> Or did I
[20:14] <danielsaul> You probably haven't renamed them to GND
[20:14] <Willdude123> I did
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[20:15] <danielsaul> Is the ground plane named GND? If they're both named GND, you should be able to see a physical connection
[20:16] <Willdude123> They are both marked gnd
[20:16] <danielsaul> Hmm
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, are you sure the polygon is named "GND"?
[20:16] <Willdude123> Yes!
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[20:17] <chrisstubbs> Odd, I have no idea what that could be then. Try deleting them and adding a fresh one
[20:18] <danielsaul> It's fine now
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[20:18] <Willdude123> oh OK
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[20:28] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, mind having a look at it?
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> Yeah okay sure, send me the link
[20:28] <cm13g09> evening all
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> hi cm13g09
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> I has new picos so should be launching soon
[20:28] <cm13g09> hey chrisstubbs - how goes
[20:28] <Willdude123> Do you want the brd file or join.me?
[20:28] <chrisstubbs> maybe this weeeknd
[20:29] <cm13g09> lol
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> joinme please
[20:29] <Willdude123> https://join.me/394-484-471
[20:29] <cm13g09> this weekend I'm in Bristol
[20:29] <cm13g09> (unless it's Sat AM)
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> stop paintballing!
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> will probably be evening
[20:29] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: but.... but.....
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> Maybe friday evening
[20:29] <cm13g09> Friday's OK
[20:29] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, does that work ok?
[20:29] <cm13g09> I'm here Friday ;)
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> depends when the helium gets delivered and i solder the battery on it :P
[20:29] <cm13g09> hehe
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> Yeah im on Willdude123
[20:30] <Willdude123> K request mouse control/
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[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> Predictions looking good for Saturday
[20:39] <daveake> Yeah mine is probably going to me Sat now
[20:39] <daveake> be
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> I bagged Saturday so there :P
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:39] <daveake> I bagged some NTXBVs so there
[20:39] <daveake> 2
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> damn
[20:39] <daveake> NTX2Bs
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> Will that not affect our flight?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake, sounds good
[20:40] <daveake> I'll change one or both NTX2 probably
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> does NTX2B work just like NTX2?
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[20:41] <craag> They've just got a TCXO in them?
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: Will your dual NTX2s not affect mine?
[20:42] <daveake> What NTX2s?
[20:42] <daveake> NTX2B. Adjustable frequency (by Radiometrix)
[20:42] <daveake> Till they tell us how ....
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, that's good. Though you may change to dual NTX2s?
[20:43] <daveake> Yes they work jthe same but the volts --> frequency ratio is differemt
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, should be fine then
[20:44] <daveake> So for 600Hz I use 15k with an NTX2 but 20k IIRC for the B
[20:44] <daveake> So yes a straight swap
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> Good stuff, I'm looking forward to it
[20:44] <daveake> Internally very different, of course
[20:44] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 are you on .075 or .650?
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> .650
[20:45] <daveake> OK I need to change the one in Babbage then
[20:45] <daveake> damn :)
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> It's usually below that though
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> sorry :/
[20:45] <daveake> Yeah don't want to be risking a conflict
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> definitely not
[20:45] <daveake> OK I'll change both mine
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[20:46] <daveake> Sunday and Monday won't work for this flight, using the current predictions (which are beginning to settle down at last)
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeqwDLsZJn8&list=SP4NL9i-Fu15hhYGB-d0hmSWD1fcIvLvn1&index=9
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13> ah right. Saturday is looking like a good day for it
[20:47] <daveake> We'll be needing a few listeners
[20:47] <daveake> Upu has 3 trackers, me 2, you 1
[20:47] <daveake> And I doubt we'll be the only ones flying
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> Good news is my holiday is cancelled so I will be tracking
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> well bad news for me
[20:47] <daveake> :)
[20:47] <daveake> hah
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> "Don't neglect me trackers!" :)
[20:48] <chrisstubbs> Will get the yagi up on a mast tomorrow for the weekend
[20:48] <daveake> Pah you can do yours on your own ibanezmatt13 :p
[20:48] <ibanezmatt13> Oh aye
[20:49] <daveake> Well we have 5 trackers and probably not enough aerials/splitters/radios :p
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think a moving chase car is gonna be very effective
[20:49] <daveake> You'd be surprised
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> Fair enough
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13> If I knew you were launching on Saturday I'd have popped down with you and Upu to do mine :)
[20:50] <daveake> hah
[20:50] <daveake> I've requested permission for all 3 days
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[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> nice, so I could if I wanted to? :)
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> I'm kidding of course
[20:51] <daveake> sure np
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[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> :O
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13> But you'd have been busy with your own anyway, we'd have needed a lot of assistance
[20:52] <daveake> It's not a problem
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13> But poor Steve
[20:52] <daveake> Mine are plug and fly
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> He might be happy that he doesn't have to come down, save him petrol. Would it be a bad thing to cancel our launch at Elsworth or is that a terrible thing to do?
[20:54] <daveake> You have to speak to him and see; I can't judge what he'll say! He may be looking forward to coming out. I have no idea.
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> I don't want to sound horrible... :/
[20:55] <ibanezmatt13> Yet I would have loved to come down with you and Anthony
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, btw farnell delivered our university order of an NTX2
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> 1.5 months after ordering
[20:55] <daveake> Farnell??
[20:55] <daveake> Not Upu's shop?
[20:55] <daveake> ouch
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> prof said, any university parts need to be ordered from a german company if possible
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> because farnell offered it, we had to use it
[20:56] <daveake> Well in that case give me a list of expensive things you need to buy and I'll set up a German store to rip you off, er, supply at keen prices :p
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, I'm going to stick with Steve. I couldn't bear asking such a thing. I mean, we could all meet in a pub after the chase; predictions can't be too far apart :)
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> of course I'm kidding
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I didn't realise how far away Brightwalton was :P
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[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> well, results day tomorrow...
[21:02] <daveake> Haha ... just had a tweet freply from a BBC weatherman suggesting that I don't bank on those predictions just yet :p
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[21:02] <ibanezmatt13> Those predictions will be far more accurate than the BBC
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[21:10] <Willdude123> Upu. Board (re) done
[21:10] <Willdude123> Mind taking a look?
[21:10] <Upu> just a little busy atm
[21:10] <Upu> will look but probably tomorrow
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[21:10] <Upu> link it anyway sure many people here can check it for you
[21:11] <Willdude123> Yeah
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[21:12] <chrisstubbs> Upu, main question for wills board, does it need 2 separate ground planes on the top for the ntx2 RF and GPS RF sheilding? or can it just have one accross the whole thing
[21:13] <Upu> one is fine
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> Okay cool
[21:13] <chrisstubbs> cheers
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[21:22] <Willdude123> Can someone check my board please?
[21:22] <Willdude123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/board.brd
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> Night all!
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> And nice work Willdude123, think you have got the hang of it now
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[21:29] <Willdude123> Upu: Just realized I'm going to have to persuade my parents to let me order it.
[21:29] <Willdude123> What's even worse is it's an australian guy in China.
[21:29] <Willdude123> That sounds dodgy.
[21:29] <Elijah_> afternoon all
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[21:33] <Elijah_> willdude, there are lots of board manufacturers that aren't in china... I've had good luck with OSHPark
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[21:35] <tweetBot> @thecraag: Testing another new twitter bot! #ukhas
[21:35] <craag> cool
[21:36] <Upu> eveything sounds dodgy to your parents
[21:36] <Upu> super
[21:36] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @thecraag: Testing another new twitter bot! #ukhas edited
[21:36] <Upu> :)
[21:36] <craag> huh.. not meant to do that
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> Also - isn't there someone naked in the UK that makes PCBs?
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> Maybe they'd be a better choice.
[21:37] <Elijah_> hahaha
[21:37] <Upu> I edited it craag
[21:37] <Upu> straight RT didn't appear
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spiritcircuits.com/services/go-naked
[21:37] <Upu> Hackvana is as good as free
[21:38] <craag> Upu: Ok, happy with that or should I ignore edited as well?
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> hi anthony
[21:38] <Upu> I can fix the bot if it becomes a problem :)
[21:38] <Randomskk> "fix"
[21:38] <Upu> mode +b
[21:39] <Randomskk> $ killall
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:40] <craag> lol ok, can't see how to ignore edited at the moment. It only posts it if (typeof tweet.retweet_status =='undefined'), so editing obviously clears that.
[21:40] <Randomskk> search for "RT" in caps inside the text
[21:40] <Randomskk> and "MT"
[21:40] <craag> MT?
[21:40] <Randomskk> modified tweet
[21:40] <Randomskk> where you retweet
[21:40] <Randomskk> but change it a bit so it fits inside 140 chars
[21:40] <Randomskk> or to highlight the interesting bit
[21:41] <craag> Ah ok! Yeah I was hoping for a more elegant solution than that :P
[21:41] <Randomskk> twitter won't tell you about the other kind
[21:42] <Willdude123> Upu even the nick eroomde. She says to me (in her northern accent) Who is e-rom-de ?
[21:42] <Randomskk> and yet "Willdude123" is fine?
[21:42] <Randomskk> it's just ed backwards >_>
[21:42] <Willdude123> Yep
[21:42] <Willdude123> How do I render a 3d model of my board? I've seen a few others do it.
[21:45] <Upu> well will
[21:45] <Upu> it will work
[21:45] <Upu> I think
[21:45] <Upu> you've got a wonky PCB
[21:45] <Upu> smaller grid is your friend
[21:46] <Willdude123> Wonky?
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[21:49] <Willdude123> shut up zeusbot
[21:49] <Upu> the board out line isn't straight
[21:50] <Willdude123> Board out?
[21:50] <Willdude123> Oh the outline
[21:50] <Upu> outline will
[21:50] <Willdude123> Is there a snap tool?
[21:51] <Upu> yes
[21:52] <Willdude123> Oh the grid
[21:52] <Willdude123> How do I make it smaller?
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[21:53] <Willdude123> What should I set it to rather?
[21:53] <Willdude123> As in the size
[21:53] <Upu> 0.0396875
[21:53] <Upu> 0.079375
[21:53] <Upu> 0.15875
[21:53] <Upu> 0.3175
[21:53] <Upu> 0.635
[21:53] <Upu> 1.27
[21:53] <Upu> one of those
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[21:54] <Upu> set grid to mm
[21:54] <craag> Back, now with "RT
[21:54] <craag> " and "MT" detection
[21:54] <Willdude123> It still wants to slant
[21:56] <Willdude123> Well it's almost square.
[21:57] <mikestir> hold down ctrl when you pick up the corner and it should snap to the current grid
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[22:00] #highaltitude: mode change '+o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:01] #highaltitude: mode change '+b $a:Arko' by Upu!~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:8dc8:65e0:39f6:73a0
[22:01] Action: Willdude123 gasps
[22:02] arko kicked from #highaltitude by Upu: arko
[22:02] <Randomskk> finally
[22:02] <Upu> lol
[22:02] <Randomskk> we're all tired of his shit
[22:02] <Randomskk> and/or, oh no, upu has gone mad with power!
[22:02] <Upu> muhaha
[22:02] Action: Upu looks at Willdude123
[22:02] <fsphil> fight the system!
[22:02] <Randomskk> ed does it better with his gandolf impression tbh
[22:02] #highaltitude: mode change '-b $a:Arko' by Upu!~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:8dc8:65e0:39f6:73a0
[22:02] <Willdude123> Why?
[22:03] <Willdude123> What was that for?
[22:03] #highaltitude: mode change '-o Upu' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:03] arko (~Arko@vanderse.xxx) joined #highaltitude.
[22:03] <Upu> just testing something
[22:03] <fsphil> last warning arko
[22:03] <arko> YOU ALL HATE ME ANYWAY
[22:03] <Willdude123> Upu you know how to ban someone don't you?
[22:04] <Upu> err yes ?
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[22:07] <mikestir> Upu: do I remember correctly that you have some RFM69Ws but you haven't done anything with them?
[22:08] <Upu> correct mike yes
[22:08] <mikestir> I bought a couple the other week - I noticed there are some through-holes for the crystal
[22:08] <mikestir> will hopefully have a play at the weekend, but could make for easy crystal pulling
[22:09] <mikestir> I built an eagle part which includes the holes, so should be able to stick some wire through to link the crystal down to the main pcb
[22:09] <Upu> welcome to them
[22:09] <Upu> mail me your address I'll post them out
[22:10] <Willdude123> Upu What were you testing then?
[22:10] <mikestir> I wasn't fishing for extras - just wondering if you were interested. I may build a little pico tracker with them so I will probably order some MAX6s from you anyway
[22:10] <Upu> I bought 5 to play with
[22:11] <Upu> under the assurance they were pin for pin compatible with the RFM22Bs and ran at 1.8V
[22:11] <Upu> they are neithe
[22:11] <mikestir> do they not run at 1.8V even at +10dBm?
[22:11] <Willdude123> Upu how do I make a 3d model of the board like ibanezmatt13 did?
[22:11] <Upu> no mikestir
[22:11] <Upu> tbh I suspect people will be using MTX2's shortly
[22:12] <mikestir> hmm that's annoying. they are using the Semtech SX1231H on both the high and normal power versions
[22:12] <Willdude123> What about the NTX2 and Ublox and stuff?
[22:12] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/1PZowla.jpg
[22:12] <mikestir> I was hoping the 1231H would work at 1.8V with the PA bypassed, as should be the case in the 69W
[22:12] <Upu> LMT2
[22:13] <Upu> NTX2 Original , NTX2B (434.2)
[22:13] <Upu> and at the front an MTX2
[22:13] <Upu> prototype will have a can on it
[22:13] <craag> oo nice
[22:13] <Upu> based on the Si4460, fitted with a TCXO
[22:13] <mikestir> nice
[22:14] <Upu> so far my testing as been very positive
[22:14] <craag> What voltage range do they work at? (MTX2)
[22:14] <Upu> sadly not down to 1.8V
[22:14] <Elijah_> can those RFM69Ws be tuned into the ham bands?
[22:14] <Upu> as they have a PIC in them and RMX are concerned about brownout or something
[22:15] <mikestir> Elijah_: I would think the 433 MHz one would be fine across 70cms
[22:15] <Willdude123> Upu is there a way to get NTX2's on the finished model?
[22:15] <craag> I see. Well with the ubloxes being low power at 3.3V now, I suppose it's not such an issue.
[22:15] <Upu> not really willdude
[22:15] <Willdude123> OK
[22:15] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Sketchup%20Models/ntx2.skp
[22:16] <Upu> not really the max7s are low powered
[22:16] <Upu> and for the 1.8v stuff I'll just make a custom SI4460 based board
[22:17] <craag> :)
[22:17] <Upu> past tense I have made one
[22:17] <Upu> it flies on Sat
[22:17] <Willdude123> Upu can I buy a Ublox max-6 chip off you or should I desolder the one on the breakout?
[22:17] <craag> My CC430 board is coming along.. but currently debating whether to use 4 layers to make it smaller..
[22:17] <mikestir> is there a reason not to use the Si4060?
[22:17] <Upu> heck don't desolder it buy one
[22:17] <mikestir> since it's just a tx?
[22:17] <mikestir> they look pretty much the same
[22:18] <Willdude123> Upu remind me how much are they?
[22:18] <Upu> £15 or something ?
[22:19] <Willdude123> Do you have any 6Qs?
[22:19] <Upu> nope all gone
[22:19] <Upu> use 7C's
[22:19] <Willdude123> Oh am I going to have to change the footprint?
[22:19] <Willdude123> Is the pinout the same?
[22:19] <Upu> right past my bed time unlike some people I have school in the morning
[22:19] <Upu> yes
[22:19] <Upu> night
[22:20] <Willdude123> So I can leave the design as is?
[22:20] <Willdude123> Upu what was your store's discount code?
[22:20] <Willdude123> Actually might try desoldering since I can't really afford a new one.
[22:20] <mikestir> so is anyone using anything other than atmegas on trackers (not including pi and bbb)?
[22:21] <mikestir> Willdude123: you will rip the pads off
[22:21] <craag> Matt uses CC430, I'm building a board for one.
[22:21] <mikestir> I noticed farnell suddenly reduced the price of the 32K cc1110
[22:21] <mikestir> it's about £2 for a 1 off
[22:22] <mikestir> however, I have been looking at the freescale kinetis KL05 series. they are uber cheap
[22:22] <craag> Yeah I've got a KL25z here, very capable!
[22:22] <mikestir> and they are very very nearly competitive on sleep power consumption with 8 bit
[22:23] <Willdude123> Was there a discount code somewhere for Upu's store?
[22:23] <craag> I nearly went for KL05 and CC1120
[22:23] <craag> But CC430 is one chip, and I'm trying to go small :)
[22:24] <mikestir> I'm wondering whether the KL05 DMA will be sufficient to get the JPEG from my Aptina cameras into a SPI SRAM for SSDV
[22:24] <mikestir> if so then it would be a tiny ssdv capable tracker
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[22:25] <Willdude123> Eek 22 quid after shipping
[22:25] <craag> :) they are powerful little things.
[22:25] <mikestir> we're evaluating one of the higher-end kinetis devices at work. I've been impressed with it
[22:26] <Willdude123> Does anyone have a spare 7C I could have?
[22:26] <mikestir> I annoyingly had an email from our freescale distie on monday. I told him we were all good, when the correct answer would have been "please send me a KL05 freedom board"
[22:26] <Willdude123> *MAX-7C
[22:26] <craag> With mbed, the KL25 is easy as arduino to get something running.
[22:27] <Willdude123> Or 6Q
[22:27] <mikestir> Willdude123: why don't you just wait and talk to Upu in the morning. it's not like he's going to ship them any quicker
[22:27] <Willdude123> I suppose yeah
[22:27] <Willdude123> gn everyone
[22:31] <mikestir> craag: have you done a gps locked tx?
[22:31] <mikestir> or was that someone else?
[22:32] <craag> mikestir: That was LeoBodnar
[22:32] <mikestir> do you know what he did?
[22:32] <mikestir> I was thinking about doing something with these RFM69Ws
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[22:33] <mikestir> pull the crystal with a simple phase comparator implemented using one of the mcu's timers, then an analogue loop filter
[22:33] <craag> I don't know exactly
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[22:35] <WillTablet> Can anyone get the parts list from my board please? I'm on my tablet atm and need to price it up.
[22:36] <WillTablet> (Supposed to be sleeping)
[22:38] <WillTablet> Ping eroomde I watched that call center thing.
[22:39] <WillTablet> This looks interesting http://online.stanford.edu/course/technology-entrepreneurship?utm_source=email-broadcast&utm_medium=email-click&utm_campaign=fall-mailer
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 22 2013