[00:02] <WillTablet> SpeedEvil I'm just worried they'll be another 'I told you so' from daveake or someone.
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> PCB is something you probably need to learn anyway.
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> GEtting a simple one done is a good plan
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> Is this particular project best done with a PCB - perhaps not.
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> But - in the overall context - ...
[00:04] <WillTablet> Hmm I will ask my dad if he'd let me do SMT , if yes I'll get the easiest to solder resistors and if no I'll get the most difficult.
[00:04] <mfa298_> there's nothing wrong with designing a simple pcb, if it's not worth getting made you dont have to get it made
[00:05] <mfa298_> like matt designed a blinky pcb to learn eagle, he designed it but didn't get it made up
[00:05] <WillTablet> He didn't design it,
[00:06] <WillTablet> He watched the tutorial video.
[00:06] <WillTablet> Yeah. I don't suppose there are pcb design apps for android?
[00:06] <WillTablet> Hmm.
[00:06] <mfa298_> you can learn a lot just by doing the same as is in a tutorial
[00:06] <WillTablet> I watched it closely, didn't do the same though.
[00:08] <WillTablet> Hmm going up north to see my grandparents. Not sure whether to bring my tablet, my crappy laptop or my even crappier netbook.
[00:09] <WillTablet> mfa298 did you look at the schematic?
[00:10] <mfa298_> i dont think I have eagle installed at the moment
[00:12] <WillTablet> Is there an online viewer?
[00:12] <mfa298_> at 1am I'm not going to go looking
[00:13] <WillTablet> Heh
[00:13] <WillTablet> Good night then
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[04:44] <LimeyJohnson> What are people's favourite gps sensors?
[04:47] <arko> Ublox
[04:47] <arko> Max 6 or 7
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[04:57] <Darkside> +1
[05:03] <arko> LimeyJohnson: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_64
[05:03] <arko> great prices
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[05:10] <LimeyJohnson> THanks for the link and suggestions
[05:10] <LimeyJohnson> Do you use GPS for your altitude readings?
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[05:39] <Brew> mfa298_: hi thanks for the getinh back, the way i have the uBlox and the NTX2 connected i can use either descreetly and i can load gpsd show lat long alt, then kill it and load the port for tty but can't work out how to tx any variable data yet :-(
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[07:06] <fsphil> morning planet earth
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[07:11] <arko> Mornin
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[07:11] <HixWork> mornin fsphil evenin arko
[07:12] <fsphil> yes evening/afternoon/night other sides of the planet
[07:12] <arko> Its technically morning here :)
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[07:23] <Elwell> afternon :-)
[07:31] <fsphil> you finally get down under Elwell?
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[07:45] <ModuloTwo> Hi. Is anyone here?
[07:46] <craag> Yep!
[07:46] <fsphil> hopefully
[07:46] <daveake> Nope!
[07:46] <ModuloTwo> Can you explain how to communicate with a computer in a HAB project?
[07:47] <daveake> And then there were two. Oh back to zero again
[07:47] <fsphil> you'll need to be more specific
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[07:48] <ModuloTwo> Well I was originally planning on using Wi-Fi but the range is not good enough. The project I'm looking to do isn't really high altitude, but if it can be done that high up then it can be done in my circumstances. I'd like to put up a camera on a balloon and maybe some servos.
[07:49] <fsphil> yea wifi would struggle
[07:50] <fsphil> ModuloTwo: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
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[07:50] <fsphil> basically we use 434mhz (which in the UK is license exempt, but I believe needs an amateur license in north america)
[07:50] <fsphil> and a very slow data rate of 50 bits/s
[07:51] <fsphil> but more than enough for sending a position
[07:51] <Brew_> Morning all the stratos guys used Motorola Motorturbo units to create a TCP/IP link. I don't know if they used the UHF or VHF version. This did the telemetry and video down link
[07:51] <ModuloTwo> fsphil: Thanks. Do you know if it is possible to make your own transmitter and antenna?
[07:52] <ModuloTwo> Or is that too complicated?
[07:52] <fsphil> ModuloTwo: you could for both yes, but the transmitter we use is pretty cheap and works well. http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=62
[07:52] <ModuloTwo> Brew_: That looks good too. Thanks.
[07:52] <Brew_> Heavy and power intensive though
[07:53] <ModuloTwo> fsphil: Oh wow. Yeah that looks very promising.
[07:53] <fsphil> you'd need a lot of power to do a video downlink
[07:53] <fsphil> unless the video is very low resolution
[07:53] <ModuloTwo> Nothing crazy. One picture every second or so at a resolution of 640x480.
[07:54] <fsphil> that's still crazy :)
[07:54] <ModuloTwo> Oh well then. I'll figure it out. Thanks everyone!
[07:54] <fsphil> a 320x240 jpeg will take about 5 minutes to transfer at 300 baud
[07:54] <fsphil> maybe less depending on the content
[07:54] <ModuloTwo> Oh geez.
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[07:55] <fsphil> I've done it a few times: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/
[07:55] <fsphil> for a flight that lasts 2 hours this actually isn't too bad
[07:56] <ModuloTwo> Yes but I'd like a realtime feed. Looks like I'll need to dig further.
[07:57] <fsphil> it's sort of real time :)
[07:57] <fsphil> real slow time
[07:58] <fsphil> if you're in a country that allows amateur radio from the air (not all do) then you could fly an ATV transmitter
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[08:01] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[08:02] <fsphil> yse
[08:02] <fsphil> yes it is
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[08:02] <fsphil> silly 9am
[08:03] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[08:18] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[08:20] <Brew_> Can anyone give me some pointers on my Raspberry Pi Tracker? I have the uBlox and NTX2 can see gps data with gpsd and can transmit text via the ntx2 just can't find a way to marry the two up?
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> What language are you coding in?
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> I have some Python code which I'm flying this Saturday; should be a case of just copying it across if you want to try it
[08:22] <Brew_> I'm really new so I'm in python as I've done some tiny things in that if I need to learn something fresh I'm all ears
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> Ublox max 6?
[08:22] <Brew_> yep
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> Are they both hooked up to the hardware serial port on the Pi?
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ublox RX to Pi's TX, Ublox TX to Pi's RX
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> NTX2s TX line to Pi's TX
[08:23] <Brew_> yes gps on the rx and ntx2 on the tx i can open the ports for each device make it work then close but can't work out how to pass the data from one to the other.
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> And have you configured the serial port by disabling the getty and stuff like that?
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> Editing the files
[08:24] <Brew_> http://brewpse.co.uk/raspberrypi/Raspberry%20Pi%20GPIO%20header.tiff
[08:24] <Brew_> yes getty disabled.
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> looks like you're ready then :)
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> Gimme a few mins
[08:26] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nix6i85rf966qe/tx.py is my python code to transmit
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> ok, there's something you need to install. I guess you have python serial installed?
[08:26] <Brew_> yep
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> But you won't have the checksum installed?
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> crc-ccitt16 or something like that
[08:27] <Brew_> quite possibly is that necessary? give me a mo I'll send you where i'm at
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> Well it's not necessary to pair them up but if you want to upload data to the server spacenear.us/tracker then you'll need it :)
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[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> ok Brew_
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/90s9llurc6xytbf/crcmod-1.7.zip
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> you need to extract the file
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> change directory to it
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> The run "sudo python setup.py install"
[08:33] <Brew_> In order to get the gps data I'm running sudo gpsd /dev/ttyAMA0 -F /var/run/gpsd.sock at the terminal I'm then using https://www.dropbox.com/s/c807kgfqzonefas/gpsData3.py to show the lat long alt
[08:33] <Brew_> sorry just seen your link i'll have a look
[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> Once you've done the above: https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB/blob/master/NORB.py There's my code, give it a run :)
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> So I think it would be something like "tar -xzvf crcmod-1.7.zip" or something like that
[08:34] <Brew_> Oh grand so the link you send it the checksum element?
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> Do you know how to extract it?
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> [I'm not a linux kinda guy really] :)
[08:35] <Brew_> not yet but the past couple of days have been fairly steep and I'm learning quick will your code run with out it?
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> no, I'm afraid it does need it, but I think we can sort it :)
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> You on your Pi now?
[08:36] <Brew_> yeah can i just do a apt-get or if I ftp it across then run the intaller?
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure about that but if you have winscp or even a pendrive that'll do it
[08:37] <Brew_> sorry mac land let me dump it across then run the setup file hopefully it won't all go up in smoke
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> Haha, ok just get those files across somehow :)
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[08:38] <Brew_> running
[08:39] <Brew_> done now to drop your code across
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> running?
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> oh right
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> btw, before you run you might wanna change the callsign from NORB_Test to something you prefer :)
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> sudo nano NORB.py
[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> you might as well rename the file too once you've got it up and running
[08:40] <Brew_> yeah will do just creating a file now back in two
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[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok so let me know if you've got my .py file in your /home/pi directory as well as the crcmod1.7 installed into python itself, then we should be good to go
[08:42] <number10> did you get the GPS going yesterday ibanezmatt13 ?
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> wow that 20-mile bike ride killed me last night...
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> yes number10 :)
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> The code was short of a bracket...
[08:42] <number10> good show.. sho everything is ready for saturday
[08:43] <number10> +w
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> yep, everything's ready
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> just waiting on the weather
[08:43] <number10> do a check list of things to take - I think daveake put one on the wiki
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I've been reading it. I think I've overprepared :)
[08:44] <number10> n such thing
[08:44] <number10> :)
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[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> 2 vertical antennas, one Yagi, the tracker, food, drink, chairs to sit on, spare batteries including batteries for flight, soldering iron, a hell of a lot of strong tape etc...
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> Is everything going ok Brew_ ?
[08:46] <number10> string, parachute balloon ... etc
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> already at the launch site ;)
[08:46] <number10> are you launching from elseworth?
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[08:47] <fsphil> you doing ssdv this weekend ibanezmatt13?
[08:47] <Brew_> ibanezmatt13 sorry just double clicked your user not sure what that did, but code in and renamed and a huge pile of errors stand by and NTX transmitting a loop :-)
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> nah, too risky. I'll save that for anothertime
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> working Brew_ ?
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: You know there are a load of print statements to help you understand what's going on. It usually takes at least a few minutes to get a GPS lock too
[08:49] <ibanezmatt13> It'll keep looping til it finds a lock on the GPS
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[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: Is the program looping and a load of text coming up on the screen? If it's doing that and the program isn't actually ending then that's running perfectly :)
[08:51] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gviq877yxvd42v8/NORB_errors.txt
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Woo!
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> They're not errors, that's good
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> in fact
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> yeah they are...
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[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> ok so it looks like your GPS is returning strange information
[08:53] <fsphil> is gpsd is still running?
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> try doing a reboot Brew_ just in case it is still running
[08:54] <fsphil> power cycle the gps module too
[08:55] <Brew_> I'll reboot and and run gpsd first to check I'm getting the data then re run the script
[08:55] <fsphil> that defeats the purpose of rebooting :)
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> I wouldn't run gpsd personally, that may be the issue
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> just reboot and run the script
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> Another thing too is you're running both modules off the Pi for power. I had major problems with that
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, most of my issues were solved when I powered everything off a regulated supply from some AAs
[08:58] <fsphil> reliable power seems to be an issue for a lot of microcontrollers/computers
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, then when you introduce Pi cam into the equation, you definitely need a new psu
[09:01] <Brew_> oh here's a sadness just to check the unit was still all working I've rebooted and amy trying to run cgps but I'm not getting a fix.
[09:02] <Brew_> it was fine earlier honest your honour
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> It does take a fair bit of time from reboot to get a fix
[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> especially on the Pi's dodgy 3.3v power line
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: Try running the .py file without GPSD running at all, even if that means another reboot
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> Then when you get the debug messages, I'll be able to tell you if what you get is normal or not
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[09:04] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> where it read a load of wrong bytes from the serial port, you want it to read only these 181 98 5 1 2 0 6 36 50 91
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> morning lunar
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> in fact Brew_ I'm chatting a load of rubbish, the moment you get a fix, that WILL work. Only, the NTX2 will send your flightmode status as false. You'll still get everything else
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> Reboot, run, and leave for 10 minutes. Being inside makes it much much more difficult to get a fix
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'm off for breakfast, I'll check in later. Good luck :)
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[09:07] <Brew_> thanks fella
[09:10] <Brew_> comedy for the last couple of days it's worked a treat on the floor in my office with the door to out side open today with clear blue skye not a sausage unless it's out side.
[09:10] <Brew_> gps back on line
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[09:29] <Brew_> Still Bad Sentence
[09:29] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/he1oj71v0z6u0yc/wow_balloon.py is the script thanks to ibanezmat13
[09:30] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/18p28nvkf147z3z/NORB_errors2.txt error file
[09:30] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gb1124vp974jnv/NORB_dl_fldigi.tiff dl-fldigi screen shot
[09:31] <fsphil> don't often see a tiff file in the wild
[09:31] <fsphil> Brew_: that signal on your waterfall is not 50 baud
[09:31] <Laurenceb> Chocolate
[09:31] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7g7n8n97fb8oip/NORB%20recording_1%2302.aif the incoming audio
[09:32] <Brew_> apologies for the tiff it's the default of Mac OS grab
[09:32] <fsphil> man, not often you see an aif in the wild either :)
[09:32] <fsphil> this is like rare file format day :)
[09:32] Action: fsphil tries to dig out some of his old .iff files
[09:33] <Brew_> apologies it's all Mac os I could do you mp3's but I guess that would make even more of a mess of the data I'm trying to read
[09:33] <fsphil> just check the code to see what baud rate it's setting
[09:33] <fsphil> and adjust fldigi to match
[09:33] <fsphil> or change the source to use 50 baud
[09:34] <Brew_> yeah found that line stand by
[09:41] <Brew_> ok baud rate changed for 50 but audio still sounds the same also in the waterfall I don't get the two lines running down as when i run tx.py https://www.dropbox.com/s/bh10buy1bcpqpx4/chocolate_dl_fldigi.tiff
[09:42] <Brew_> off to make a brew and dash for some milk I'll be back
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[09:44] <Laurenceb> milkshake
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[10:01] <Brew_> I'm back sorry should have taken virtual orders
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[10:17] <mfa298_> Brew_: reading some of the scrollback, gps can be a fun game. The sattelites move around so sometimes what worked before won't work now. After powerup the gps module also has to download data from the satelites. If the module can see lots of satellites it gets that data quicker and can get a lock quicker.
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[10:30] <Brew_> I don't have the RX of the GPS connected to the Pi at the moment do we think this is the problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/0r1ig0jcpcljce6/WOW%20JBR%20Raspberry%20Pi%20Schematic.pdf
[10:32] <mfa298_> I'm not sure what matts code is like but it could be, he might be trying to set things on the gps and checking for a confirmation
[10:35] <Brew_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/he1oj71v0z6u0yc/wow_balloon.py is the code looking at lines 20-28 and the script is failing around line 99. Time for another cuppa and get the soldering iron on
[10:41] <craag> I was looking through the UBX docs and there's some quite cool stuff like telling it roughly where it is, which helps fix time dramatically.
[10:42] <fsphil> oh missed that bit
[10:42] <craag> Also the assistnow data, which reduced cold start time to fix to 3 seconds for a chip antenna on the windowsill at work (half under a metal roof)
[10:42] <mfa298_> best hint is to look at the code, what do you think lines 20-28 are doing. Also look at what function line 99 is in. There's some good hints there (if you know how the UBlox can work)
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[10:42] <fsphil> could store the current position in flash memory every few minutes
[10:43] <mattbrejza> how long does it take if the position you give it is way off?
[10:43] <astrobiologist_> so I just one that Kenwood TH-F7E handheld on eBay
[10:43] <fsphil> if the gps rebooted for some reason, it would speed up recovery
[10:43] <craag> mattbrejza: I'm guessing a full timeout.. so a long time!
[10:43] <fsphil> astrobiologist_: won?
[10:43] <astrobiologist_> Someone tried to outbid me in the last 7 seconds, cheeky bugger
[10:43] <astrobiologist_> yes, won, sorry fsphil.
[10:44] <fsphil> yea ebay snipers are annoying (I do it myself ;)
[10:44] <astrobiologist_> Cost me an extra £10 but I can live with it, fsphil
[10:44] <astrobiologist_> Finally get me on-air and hopefully linked up to fl-digi etc
[10:45] <craag> astrobiologist_: Great! Bring it along to the conf and we can get you using it for your VHF contact.
[10:45] <fsphil> you doing the foundation test astrobiologist_?
[10:46] <astrobiologist_> Thanks craag. That's just what I'd be hoping. Once I really decided to do it, I rationalised that buying it early might give me a chance to accustom myself to it and maybe try it out at the conference, at least in receive
[10:46] <astrobiologist_> yes fsphil, in fact I was womdering if anybody could give me advice on learning morse. I'm quite into it now. I can memorise it and send O.K but I'm having real trouble transcribing it
[10:47] <astrobiologist_> Does anybody who hangs out here do morse?
[10:47] <fsphil> not me. I like morse but really bad at it
[10:47] <fsphil> it used to be a requirement for the license I think -- thankfully not anymore
[10:48] <fsphil> I'd never have managed it
[10:48] <craag> fsphil: UBX-AID-INI is the message you might want to look at, you can also give it an idea of the time, but given how quickly it tends to get that I'm not sure it'll help much.
[10:49] <craag> fsphil: I took the RAE straight after they dropped the morse requirement, one exam, straight to full :D
[10:49] <fsphil> nice
[10:49] <astrobiologist_> I have a couple of good iPad apps like Ham Morse. I've tried the Koch Method (no puns) and I find I kind of lose my place. I can hear the characters coming at me but once I miss a couple, I just can't get start writing them again, I'm trying to place the characters I missed
[10:50] <astrobiologist_> I wondered if there was a nack to it
[10:50] <mfa298_> for learning to recieve morse code I liked this programme (for windows) http://www.justlearnmorsecode.com/
[10:50] <fsphil> I cheat and use a computer :)
[10:51] <mfa298_> I think for koch's method if you miss a couple of characters you just want to forget them and move on.
[10:51] <astrobiologist_> thanks mfa298, I'll try it out on my VM (on a Mac).
[10:51] <gonzo__> I took three goes to pass the 12wpm test 25yrs ago. And avoided using it ever since
[10:51] <astrobiologist_> I know mfa298, but I just can't. They're send in groups of 5, and I kind of miss one and then get out of sync with the next 5 and so on.
[10:51] <craag> There's a guy at my local ham club who enters every morse contest... with fldigi (or something similar). He's rather disliked by the rest of the old timers.
[10:51] <fsphil> lol
[10:52] <mfa298_> I did find once you do more than a few characters it turns into a can you find the key on the keyboard test as much as a morse test
[10:52] <fsphil> craag: guess he tells them, or can they tell by how well timed it is?
[10:52] <mfa298_> I never even tried the morse test.
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[10:53] <astrobiologist_> yes mfa298, I'm surprised anybody can type at that speed. It's one thing to hear them, but quite another to make your fingers move quickly enough or even speak the character out loud
[10:53] <gonzo__> we have a guy at our club. Will sens 30wpm with one hand, write in the log with the other and have a conversation with you (in english, being his 2nd languiage).
[10:53] <craag> fsphil: He tells everyone... but if people send him bad timing he can't decode it, so they have to send it again.
[10:54] <gonzo__> above 20wpm, the military used to teach their op's to type the messages. The hams tend to just read it in their heads
[10:54] <astrobiologist_> gonzo some of the koch descriptions say you start to hear the characters as distinctive sounds in their own right, instead of trying to decode them each. I can see what they mean. At higher speeds it's like birds chirping
[10:54] <gonzo__> their used to be a joke Q code. QLF
[10:54] <mattbrejza> how long is ephemeris valid? you could read from the gps and write back at power on?
[10:54] <astrobiologist_> but I just can't keep up with it. Apparently the worst thing is to slow it down whilst learning
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[10:55] <gonzo__> qlf-not try sending with the left foot
[10:55] <gonzo__> now
[10:55] <Brew_> Fantastic success https://www.dropbox.com/s/o1nqgiaksdyy542/wow_balloon_test-dl-figigi.tiff I think i understand most of what is going on aside from the height i'm expecting something about 70ish meters
[10:55] <gonzo__> suggest listening to the charachers at full speed, I did 15wpm for the 12wpm test. But with long thinking gaps
[10:56] <fsphil> gps altitude is horribly inaccurate
[10:56] <craag> mattbrejza: Looking at the acquisition patterns from kraken's 30 minute interval fixes, I'm guessing a good few hours.
[10:56] <gonzo__> but it is correct that you listen to the mucis and the rythm of the characters.
[10:56] <mfa298_> astrobiologist_: I think there is something to learning the sounds. I can hear C in morse code in my head but really have to think if I want to write down dots and dashes
[10:57] <astrobiologist_> gonzo yes I have a feeling the word gaps is perhaps key, it might let one gather one's thoughts! But there is no way to change the gap length in HamMorse
[10:57] <mattbrejza> the issue is that wihought a battery backed RTC you have no idea how long youve been off for
[10:57] <mattbrejza> and if you have a backup battery might as well attach to the gps and let it keep that itself
[10:57] <mfa298_> astrobiologist_: from memory the program I linked you can adjust some of the gaps
[10:58] <astrobiologist_> mfa298 I find sending it no problem (C is _._.) but decoding much slower. I'll try the program, many thanks
[10:58] <craag> Yep, true. I was thinking more of telling it it's in the UK, and seeing how much quicker that speeds up lock.
[10:58] <gonzo__> to start with, you will be trying to remember the dits and dahs, whih you can do up till about 5wpm overall speed. (that is fast chrs and long gaps). After that yo start running out of thinkng time. So there is usually a 5wpm barrier for most people, till you start to just write the chrs down withoutb thinking.
[10:59] <gonzo__> and trying not to get hung up on missed characters. That puts big holed in the text. Just move on and put a dash
[10:59] <gonzo__> writing in lower case speeds up the hand too
[11:00] <mattbrejza> tbh though, if it cant get lock within a couple of mins in an open field, you have other issues
[11:00] <astrobiologist_> gonzo I don't mind sending slowly but I would like to be able to listen effectively. I'll try dashing out missed characters like you suggest, many thanks
[11:00] <mattbrejza> more useful if you intend to power off the gps for a while
[11:01] <astrobiologist_> so how do the intermediate and full licenses compare? (And could they be accommodated in future conferences? ;-)
[11:02] <craag> mattbrejza: True, I looked into this for work though, where we would love the lock to be instant. (and also to work better under sky-obstructions)
[11:03] <mfa298_> full probably get's hard to do at a conference as it's set dates for the tests.
[11:03] <mattbrejza> yea we do have ideal gps conditions
[11:03] <craag> astrobiologist_: Intermediate has a practical project, so is a bit more work.
[11:03] <mattbrejza> unless you can do the project in your own time?
[11:03] <mattbrejza> idk
[11:03] <craag> You can, I just need to see it really
[11:04] <craag> And there's a few other bits like putting on coax connectors, wiring a plug, etc
[11:04] <mattbrejza> does making an antenna for a hab count? (for the project)
[11:04] <mattbrejza> or just a payload of some sort?
[11:04] <craag> No. has to have at least 2 active components
[11:05] <mattbrejza> active being something silicon?
[11:05] <mattbrejza> so you could make the habamp as a kit?
[11:05] <craag> And 5 solder joints iirc. (so payload would do)
[11:05] <craag> yep
[11:05] <mattbrejza> oh doesnt even have to be all RF?
[11:05] <craag> No, just RF related.
[11:05] <craag> Can be an audio amp for a rig!
[11:05] <mattbrejza> oh ok. habamp kit would be good then
[11:05] <mattbrejza> oh right
[11:05] <mattbrejza> does kit count
[11:05] <mattbrejza> ?
[11:06] <craag> Kit is fine.
[11:06] <mattbrejza> yea shouldnt be much of an issue then
[11:06] <craag> Literally solder something together with 2 transistors and 5 joints that turns on an LED, and you're done.
[11:06] <mattbrejza> how many people are actually taking the beginner thing at the conference
[11:06] <mattbrejza> ?
[11:06] <craag> 6
[11:07] <mattbrejza> quite a few bearing in mind its a bit useless for uk hab
[11:07] <craag> yep, I'm happy
[11:07] <astrobiologist_> craag define active component - oh I think you just did, transistors relays etc?
[11:07] <craag> astrobiologist_: Anything with silicon in it, so transistor, ic, regulator, diode, etc
[11:08] <fsphil> I did an audio amp for my project
[11:08] <fsphil> just a kit I bought
[11:08] <craag> We usually build 40m VFOs
[11:08] <fsphil> and have never used since :)
[11:08] <fsphil> I must dig that out
[11:08] <craag> I deconstruct them afterwards and use the parts for the next course :P
[11:09] <craag> astrobiologist_: If you're anywhere near soton, the uni club'll be doing some more exams in the next few months, and we don't charge anything extra over the rsgb exam fee.
[11:10] <mattbrejza> (missing a trick there) :P
[11:10] <astrobiologist_> in London I'm afraid - but let me have the dates, I could perhaps come down and stay at my parents' place in Winchester
[11:10] <craag> Well, as long as we have membership-paying students at the same time
[11:11] <craag> Also I'm pushing to get the RSGB exam fee covered by SUSU for students :P
[11:11] <mattbrejza> cant you just apply for funding for that?
[11:11] <craag> Yep, done!
[11:11] <craag> Waiting to see if they'll approve...
[11:12] <mattbrejza> any idea when they allocate?
[11:12] <craag> no
[11:12] <mattbrejza> must be before term starts?
[11:12] <craag> gotta be
[11:12] <craag> (I hope)
[11:12] <mattbrejza> or do they want to wait until after bunfight sign up numbers?
[11:12] <craag> bunfight signup numbers are useless
[11:13] <craag> I got 175 for the radio club last year
[11:13] <craag> of which 8 are still around
[11:13] <mattbrejza> how many turned up to the kickoff meeting/activity thing?
[11:14] <craag> about 20-25 I think, spread over 2 intro meetings
[11:14] <mattbrejza> im wondering how many we'll (susf) will have to deal with
[11:14] <craag> There are a few aroudn that I've bumped into and are keen, but want to wait until we have a club station set up so they don't have to buy kit.
[11:14] <mattbrejza> ah right
[11:15] <astrobiologist_> Have any of you got a morse key?
[11:15] <craag> Plenty of biiig glossy pics of black space over earth and susf will have a lot I'm sure.
[11:16] <craag> I doubt many will stick around when they find out there isn't much going on, but we'll hopefully get a fair few who'll bring some drive to it.
[11:16] <craag> astrobiologist_: I have a couple
[11:17] <craag> We could do a pico launch in freshers week, for people to come along and see what it's about.
[11:18] <mattbrejza> see what money we get first :P
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[11:19] <mattbrejza> theres only so many people we can keep interested in our first year
[11:19] <Steve_at_work> anyone know of an emulator for arduino, to save bringing it into work lol
[11:19] <fsphil> connect to it from home remotely :)
[11:19] <astrobiologist_> craag I guess I need one with a built-in oscillator, which can feed a tone into the mic socket of my handheld
[11:19] <mattbrejza> there is one for the AVR, but its always a right PITA to use and quite slow
[11:20] <fsphil> yea it just doesn't work well
[11:20] <craag> astrobiologist_: Is there not a morse mode on it?
[11:21] <craag> If not, then yes that would work.
[11:21] <craag> brb lunch
[11:21] <astrobiologist_> not that I can find in the manual craag. Have a nice lunch, I'll do the same!
[11:21] <astrobiologist_> ?help
[11:21] <Steve_at_work> fsphil: dont really want to do it that way, would have prefered some sort of app
[11:22] <gonzo__> that would just be morse tones being sent on an FM carrier. Not real CW, but common for people in local nets who want to practice.
[11:22] <Steve_at_work> and its only to do simple stuff, like messing around with strings,ints, and floats etc
[11:22] <fsphil> Steve_at_work: just get a C++ compiler for windows
[11:22] <mattbrejza> if you just want to practice c Steve_at_work there are small IDEs you can use
[11:23] <mattbrejza> http://www.codecutter.net/tools/quincy/ this being what they used to teach c to first years
[11:24] <Steve_at_work> mattbrejza: cheers i will take a look at that
[11:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/500000-524999/506343-da-01-de-RADARBEWEGUNGSM_MOD_STEREO_4_75_5_25V.pdf
[11:24] <Laurenceb> this looks epic
[11:25] <Laurenceb> radar module with baseband output
[11:25] <Steve_at_work> ive got GPS and RTTY working independently, I just cannot get the values out of the GPS and into the RTTY string
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[11:26] <mattbrejza> do you use "tinyGPS" to get GPS as float?
[11:26] <mattbrejza> then have to use snprintf to turn into string?
[11:26] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: my german is a bit rusty
[11:26] <mattbrejza> however there are some nice pictures
[11:27] <Steve_at_work> yes I use tinygps
[11:27] <Steve_at_work> my problem is three fold, processing floats, concatenating all the bits together, and the sketch hanging after the first pass
[11:28] <mattbrejza> if the avr was a modern processor you could step thru the code line by line and find where it fails or hangs...
[11:28] <mattbrejza> but anyway
[11:28] <mattbrejza> to turn floats into telemetry just sprintf?
[11:29] <mattbrejza> which then includes the massive floats library, hence "tinyGPS"
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[11:29] <Steve_at_work> whats the difference between sprintf and snprintf
[11:29] <mattbrejza> snprinf is the safe version
[11:29] <mattbrejza> you tell it the max number of characters to print
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[11:30] <Steve_at_work> i presume then snprintf is the one to use?
[11:31] <mattbrejza> dtostrf will also turn a single value into a string (might be smaller - but you should have enough room for snprintf)
[11:31] <Steve_at_work> this quincy is taking ages to download our internet connection sucks
[11:31] <mattbrejza> yea snprintf is best
[11:31] <mattbrejza> so you declare the telemetry buffer:
[11:32] <mattbrejza> #define BUFF_LEN = 100;
[11:32] <mattbrejza> char outbuff[BUFF_LEN];
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[11:32] <mattbrejza> then snprintf(outbuff,BUFF_LEN, ....)
[11:32] <mattbrejza> and that way you wont overrun memory
[11:33] <mattbrejza> also might be good to do snprintf(outbuff,BUFF_LEN-10, ...)
[11:33] <mattbrejza> to leave room for the checksum
[11:33] <mattbrejza> but you get the idea
[11:34] <Steve_at_work> sort of get the idea, (i'm a c++(or what ever it is) beginner)
[11:34] <Laurenceb> http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/24-24-250ghz-stereo-radar-sensor-module-rsm-2650-50-7299
[11:35] <mattbrejza> are there any beginners workshops at the conf this year?
[11:35] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: £16, not bad
[11:35] <Steve_at_work> it would be good
[11:36] <mattbrejza> no beginner code workshops it seems, but there is a 'how not to program' lecture
[11:36] <mattbrejza> well 'debugging'
[11:36] <Steve_at_work> in your example outbuff is basically an 100 element array i'm guessing (thats how new I am)
[11:37] <Steve_at_work> how not to program the arduino is easier said than done.
[11:37] <mattbrejza> not come across strings yet?
[11:37] <Brew_> fsphil if I run gpsd i get about 70m yet dl-fldigi return a value of 110ish
[11:37] <mattbrejza> (but yes it is)
[11:37] <Steve_at_work> i think my main problem is i am from an IBM iSeries programming background
[11:38] <Steve_at_work> right time for lunch
[11:39] <fsphil> Brew_: odd. gpsd might be using a different altitude -- I believe the module returns two different once
[11:39] <fsphil> ones*
[11:39] <Steve_at_work> thanks mattbrejza for the info
[11:39] <mattbrejza> np
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[11:44] <Brew_> is there a upper and lower possibility? the numbers don't even match up if it was a feet and meters conversion
[11:46] <craag> Brew_: There are several models used for the shape of the earth (it's not a perfect sphere)
[11:46] <craag> One may be with the model, one is assuming a sphere.
[11:46] <Laurenceb> http://us.arevablog.com/wp-content/uploads/853441.jpg
[11:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.skoda-js.cz/img/edee/gallery/vyrobky-a-sluzby/zarizeni-pro-je-typu-pwr/vnitrni-casti-reaktoru/limit/05_sachta-reaktoru-epr-pro-elektrarnu-olkiluoto_upraveno.jpg
[11:48] <Laurenceb> lolling
[11:49] <craag> But consumer GPSs are rather bad at accurate altitude, I've seen differences of 20m or so between rebooting the GPS.
[11:49] Action: Laurenceb orders his NBC suit
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[11:53] <Brew_> The oddity is it's the same uBlox Max-6 connect to the pi gpsd returns https://www.dropbox.com/s/cld1txyy7k9zait/Brews%20House.tiff where as running the script https://www.dropbox.com/s/he1oj71v0z6u0yc/wow_balloon.py returns a height of 110 isn https://www.dropbox.com/s/o1nqgiaksdyy542/wow_balloon_test-dl-figigi.tiff
[11:57] <craag> Yep, probably earth-model differences afaik. It's just an offset of 40m, nothing to worry about.
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[11:58] <mfa298_> you might also find different levels of error depending on which mode the gps is operating in.
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[11:59] <mfa298_> With matt's code you're probably in flightmode (assuming you can talk to the gps from the pi now) gpsd is probably in the standard mode
[11:59] <HixWork> Just been emailed a job spec for an RF system designer in Sweden for 6 months, if anyone wants the info let me know
[11:59] <Laurenceb> too cold
[11:59] <Laurenceb> and... oddd
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[12:00] <mattbrejza> are these 6 months summer or winter?
[12:00] <mattbrejza> and if winter can you ski near by?
[12:00] <mattbrejza> (not actualyl interested though)
[12:05] <HixWork> heh, winter. Not sure of exact location.
[12:07] <Brew_> mfa298 thanks that makes sense.
[12:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.bankholidaycomes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/indoor-skydiving.jpg
[12:08] <Brew_> Is it possible to get dl-fldigi to trigger a script once your balloon has reached height X?
[12:08] <fsphil> not without modifying it
[12:09] <fsphil> though you could read the data (it outputs decoded text to a tcp port)
[12:09] <craag> Might be easier to query habitat with your script for the latest packet.
[12:09] <fsphil> and monitor the altitude in your script
[12:13] <astrobiologist> craag hope you had a nice lunch, I had the american style fried chicken here. Nothing to recommend it.
[12:13] <astrobiologist> Would a morse key with built-in oscillator make a suitable intermediate project?
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[12:13] Action: fsphil is about to have spagetti and toast :)
[12:14] <craag> I had homemade chicken broth
[12:14] <craag> Very tasty
[12:14] <craag> astrobiologist: Yes it would be!
[12:14] <craag> And you can do it now, and I can assess you for it when the time comes.
[12:15] Action: bertrik is still working on extracting/porting THOR
[12:15] <craag> Basically they just want to know you've had the experience of doing a little project.
[12:15] <astrobiologist> Ah super I'll pencil that in then craag ! Two active components you say, so that would be the oscillator to make the tone... a transistor or a 555 perhaps... and maybe and LED as the 2nd component?
[12:16] <craag> 555 for the oscillator, and a transistor to drive the speaker perhaps?
[12:17] <astrobiologist> craag it needs to drive the mic socket on my handheld, so presumably line in instead of speaker?
[12:17] <astrobiologist> Never really been sure what the difference is
[12:17] <craag> ah yeah sorry.
[12:18] <craag> I've got a morse oscillator here that I meaning to fix up for the conf, was thinking about that and getting confused.
[12:19] <craag> You might want a small buzzer or something anyway so you can hear what you're sending.
[12:19] <craag> Known as a 'sidetone'
[12:19] <astrobiologist> But with mattbrejza and mfa298's help I have already bought the bits to rig up a cable to link my iPad's headphone>handheld mic and handheld speaker>iPad mic cable for APRS (see PocketPacket app)
[12:20] <astrobiologist> which has some voltage dividers to prevent anything getting damaged, but no active components. Bizarrely that should let me send morse tones from my iPad in the meantime ;-) (yes there's an app for that complete with pretend on-screen morse key)
[12:21] <craag> Haha cool
[12:22] <craag> I used to use my APRSdroid with a handheld.
[12:22] <craag> *phone with APRSdroid
[12:23] <craag> But then I decided it would be a great idea to tape them together, to make an APRS-equipped handheld!
[12:23] <fsphil> just to continue odd file format day.. a customer just emailed me saying they can't open the attached JPEG file, can you re-send it as a TIFF
[12:23] <fsphil> is there a TIFF fan club out there?
[12:24] <craag> 5W of RF blew up the GPS frontend in the phone, never got a lock since.
[12:24] <craag> wat lol
[12:24] <bertrik> pity
[12:24] <craag> who can't open jpegs?
[12:24] <fsphil> that's what I said
[12:24] <fsphil> only the most common image format on the planet
[12:25] <astrobiologist> craag so the moral of the story is to keep the phone/iPad and the transmitter a metre or so apart?
[12:25] <Brace> fsphil: I've heard odd stuff like that before
[12:25] <Brace> I can't open $common_format, please send it in $slightly_less_common format
[12:26] <fsphil> it's very odd
[12:26] <craag> astrobiologist: The way I'd done it, the phone internal GPS antenna was about 8mm from the handheld RF output.
[12:26] <craag> So unless you're sitting the ipad on the antenna, you don't have anything to worry about.
[12:26] <fsphil> normally I'm the one using the less common formats (ogg, flac)
[12:26] <HixWork> The attachment was too small, they needed a 49Mb image @ 300x500px
[12:27] <astrobiologist> craag I was thinking of keeping them both in my bag for my commute
[12:27] <craag> Yeah I'd be careful with that.
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[12:27] <fsphil> reduce the power
[12:27] <craag> It was a 5 year old phone (android 1.5!)
[12:28] <astrobiologist> I deeply love my iPad and depend on it a lot for work
[12:28] <craag> Yep reducing the power would be a good idea.
[12:28] <astrobiologist> So maybe the iPad stays in the bag and I I keep the handheld... in my hand or attached to my rucksack
[12:28] <craag> Yep put the handheld in the top of the rucksack maybe, with the antenna sticking out?
[12:29] <craag> That's what I used to do
[12:29] <craag> migth have a pic somewhere..
[12:29] <astrobiologist> Come to that, once you give PocketPacket a valid call sign it is quite happy to operate without a transceiver and just talk to the APRS servers over its 3G connection!
[12:30] <astrobiologist> which rather negates the whole point! But I am determined to take the iPad/handheld connection SOMEWHERE WITH NO 'PHONE SIGNAL just to prove the point
[12:30] <x-f> just put it in offline/airplane mode?
[12:31] <craag> Yep, also if you can use UDP APRS-IS packets, those get through a lot better than HTTP/TCP in rubbish 2G signal.
[12:32] <astrobiologist> x-f, craag well one eBay handheld and a Foundation exam later, we can give this the Pepsi challenge and you can all follow me on my way home
[12:32] <astrobiologist> if you want to
[12:33] <craag> :)
[12:35] <astrobiologist> My original interest in APRS is for ballooning tracking for those places that allow it
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[13:45] <HixWork> damn it appears infomet is dead http://www.infomet.fcr.es/metoffice/mapa3.gif
[13:45] <HixWork> that was useful
[13:46] <HixWork> anyone know of a decent surface pressure chart system for UK/ Europe?
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[13:50] <Survivor> Heya guys.. a quick question.. what temperature ranges should I expect if I launch a HAB platform?
[13:50] <UpuWork> depend show quick you're up and down
[13:50] <UpuWork> and time of day
[13:50] <fsphil> anywhere between -70 and 40
[13:51] <Survivor> that is in degrees C right?
[13:51] <UpuWork> yes
[13:51] <fsphil> yea
[13:51] <Survivor> alright.. thanks!
[13:51] <UpuWork> just insultate well and you should be fine
[13:51] <Survivor> ahh I see
[13:51] <fsphil> yea with good insulation the inside shouldn't get that cold
[13:51] <UpuWork> and don't launch into the night :)
[13:51] <UpuWork> ping nigelvh
[13:52] <Survivor> what are the possible ways of insulation?
[13:52] <Survivor> mine is a theoritical project, and I just have to gather info actually... and I am new in this field..
[13:52] <fsphil> I've used polystyrene
[13:53] <fsphil> there is a foam some people have used, I can't remember the name of
[13:53] <fsphil> and if you're totally theoretical, then aerogel :)
[13:53] <Survivor> Polyisocyanurate?
[13:54] <fsphil> styrofoam
[13:54] <fsphil> which is polystyrene too it seems
[13:55] <gonzo__> out of interest, has anyone tried moudling PU foam for a payload?
[13:56] <fsphil> I think JGC tried
[13:57] <fsphil> http://blog.jgc.org/2011/07/more-experiments-with-expanding.html
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[14:14] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I could quote you to make a aerogel payload container if you like. :)
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> i have been intending to give it a try. :)
[14:14] <mattbrejza> only a pico i assume...
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[14:29] <HixWork> Ultrasonic Knives. Wow, I never even knew they existed. They look perfect for HAB
[14:29] <HixWork> and other stuff, namely food
[14:32] <gonzo__> could hetr mor than tin foil if you cantch one on your fillings!
[14:32] <gonzo__> catch
[14:32] <fsphil> I imagine it would be a large number SpeedEvil
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> Well, yes.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:35] <gonzo__> those PU experimanet seemed to be based on injecting large vols. Wonder if better results would come from lining a mould by layering the foam and pressing in a plug
[14:36] <gonzo__> suprised it would not work against the balloon though. We tried filling a fridge door with some once. It bulged and pushed the front of the door off
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[14:38] <SpeedEvil> It's complex - you really can't fill things with it
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[14:38] <SpeedEvil> you need to partially fill it and allow to expand
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[14:39] <gonzo__> that was why I thought of layering beads of it in an open mound then pressing a plug in for the cebntre void
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Or just don't bother.
[14:40] <gonzo__> or have a mount with plenty of sill/sprue holes
[14:40] <gonzo__> mould
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Get some granulated polystyrene.
[14:40] <gonzo__> that is another valid option
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Soak it in petrol.
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> (or butane)
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> now, place in a mould, and run steam through it
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> This is how the pros do it.
[14:41] <gonzo__> what does the steam do?
[14:42] <Willdude123> Hi
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Heats and acts as a gas with high vapour pressure
[14:43] <Willdude123> Ping UpuWork what kind of antenna connector (for the NTX2 should I have?
[14:43] <Laurenceb> so what is the foam made from?
[14:44] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: polystyrene?
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:44] <Laurenceb> ah i see
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> As a fun fact - it's made in massive lozenges
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> about 1.5m*1.5m*2.6m
[14:44] <UpuWork> which ever one you want Willdude123 see the Wiki
[14:46] <gonzo__> will have to google polystyrene moulding. Sounds fun
[14:46] <Willdude123> Oh sorry I must have missed that. http://imgur.com/zMEtkNK here's the schematic if you wanna have a look.
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[14:46] <Willdude123> Had to wire the nets away from the header as the names crossed over and started to look ugly.
[14:47] <gonzo__> will, if you don't actually need a connector, don't use one. Save weight and one less thing to go wrong
[14:47] <Willdude123> Mhm.
[14:47] <Willdude123> Yeah maybe I'll skip it for this board, but maybe break it out anyway.
[14:47] <Willdude123> UpuWork, what do you think so far?
[14:48] <gonzo__> if you are tracking a board, then no reason not to put the pads in for a connector, for bench testing. But for flight, I just solder the coax to the board
[14:48] <gonzo__> actually most of mine have had the antenna wire elements soldered directly to the ntx2
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[14:54] <survivor> A quick question: what ranges of atmospheric pressure is experienced by a HAB platform?
[14:55] <UpuWork> greater than most of the cheap sensors
[14:56] <survivor> thanks
[14:57] <mattbrejza> MPXM2102AS will work all the way down
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[15:10] <Willdude123> Why does the ublox have so many ground pins?
[15:11] <Willdude123> Can I connect it to the same ground pin as the NTX2? And the same VCC?
[15:11] <mattbrejza> three ground pins is nothing
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[15:12] <Willdude123> Why does it need 3 grounds?
[15:13] <mattbrejza> to confuse n00bs
[15:13] <mattbrejza> two are RF return
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[15:14] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon S_Mark
[15:14] <chrisstubbs> Board working now?
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[15:15] <S_Mark> hey chrisstubbs, will be when I get home!
[15:15] <S_Mark> Which could be soon, this day is draaaaging
[15:16] <chrisstubbs> Yeah its been one of those days
[15:16] <Willdude123> Should VCC_IO be connected to VCC?
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> Elijah_, max6?
[15:17] <Willdude123> Wait, do I have to power the NTX2 with 5v ?
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, max6?
[15:17] <Willdude123> Yes
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> no both will work 3.3v
[15:17] <S_Mark> Willdude123, you making your own pcb now? what happened to the rasberry pi, beagleboard etc?
[15:18] <Willdude123> So I'll power both with 3.3v. I don't understand the datasheet description of it.
[15:18] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> page 25 h/w integration manual
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> oh no sorry thats LEA
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> keep going...
[15:18] <Willdude123> S_Mark, I'll be testing the GPS interference a bit more. It's a breakout I'm designing.
[15:19] <Willdude123> So err.
[15:19] <Willdude123> VCC_IO
[15:19] <Willdude123> What is it?
[15:19] <S_Mark> ah ok
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> Page 38
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> connect it to Vcc like the diagram says
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> Then read the pin descriptions on the next page, that explains what each does
[15:20] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, found it
[15:20] <Willdude123> it's page 38
[15:20] <Willdude123> Oh
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> and what you should connect to where
[15:20] <Willdude123> you said that.
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> lol
[15:21] <Willdude123> Is rf_in electrically crossing over with ground?
[15:21] <Willdude123> Is it electrically connected?
[15:21] <chrisstubbs> for example you ground out the V)BCKP if you are not going to use it
[15:21] <Laurenceb> LeoBodbnar: linear stepper is running
[15:21] <Laurenceb> thanks for the help with that
[15:21] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, yeah its only connected if there is a dot over the crossed lines
[15:21] <Laurenceb> ive finalyl had time to get it running with my F4 discovery controller today
[15:21] <chrisstubbs> so rf_in is not connected to ground
[15:22] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[15:22] <Willdude123> Is it possible to connect VCC_IO to VCC since it's the same voltage (3v3) ?
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> yes
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> they are connected in the hw integration manual
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> same goes for v_resr
[15:25] <UpuWork> Willdude123 have a read of https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/MAX-7_NEO-7_LEA-7_HardwareIntegrationManual_%28GPS.G7-HW-11006%29.pdf
[15:25] <UpuWork> Ublox stuff is extremely well documented
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[15:46] <Willdude123> UpuWork, is the GPS I have now's antenna active or passive?
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Passive means it has no active elements - semiconducors.
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Does it have a power supply?
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> If so - unlikely to be passive
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[15:50] <Willdude123> Doesn't look like it.
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[15:52] <survivor> A quick question again: How much G force is a HAB platform expected to experience?
[15:52] <fsphil> you know it would probably be simpler to actually fly one with some sensors :)
[15:52] <fsphil> biggest G force I imagine would be on landing
[15:52] <bertrik> I guess landing gives the highest g force
[15:52] <fsphil> largest*
[15:53] <fsphil> when the balloon bursts, it'll be about 0 G
[15:54] <mattbrejza> well the box typically tumbles then the parachute deploys a bit and it gets pulled the right way up
[15:54] <mattbrejza> but in ideal a-level physics land its 0 g
[15:54] <Joel_re> what frequency do you guys transmit data at?
[15:54] <fsphil> that's the world I live in :)
[15:54] <Joel_re> I plan to transmit every 30 seconds, does that sound ok?
[15:54] <fsphil> everything is perfectly smooth spheres...
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[15:55] <fsphil> Joel_re: 4343mhz, continous
[15:55] <fsphil> why bother having gaps? :)
[15:55] <chrisstubbs> *434
[15:55] <fsphil> yes that ^
[15:55] <fsphil> 434mhz
[15:55] <Bo_DK_Working> dooh.....
[15:55] <chrisstubbs> lol 4ghz would be fin
[15:55] <chrisstubbs> fun
[15:55] <Bo_DK_Working> forgot pass for site
[15:55] <Bo_DK_Working> and it will not send mail with reset link
[15:55] <fsphil> the ntx2 does transmit a bit at 1.7ghz
[15:55] <Bo_DK_Working> or....
[15:55] <Bo_DK_Working> i have waited for it
[15:55] <Bo_DK_Working> and its not in spam
[15:56] <Joel_re> fsphil: oh I mean what time period between each transmission
[15:56] <Joel_re> if any
[15:56] <Bo_DK_Working> who is it that takes care of site???
[15:56] <fsphil> Joel_re: I just transmit all the time
[15:56] <Joel_re> hrm, in my case I just have 1 uart
[15:56] <Joel_re> which I will use to read from the gps module, then tx using ntx2
[15:56] <fsphil> what system are you using?
[15:57] <Joel_re> need to reconfigure the uart at the differrent bauds each time
[15:57] <Joel_re> its an msp430
[15:57] <fsphil> you could possibly drive the ntx2 using a gpio pin
[15:57] <fsphil> similar to how it's done on the avr
[15:57] <Joel_re> I could yeah, hardware uart would be simpler for me
[15:57] <Joel_re> hmm, will look at the avr code
[15:57] <fsphil> not if you have to share it with gps :)
[15:58] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with the msp430
[15:58] <fsphil> on the avr it can be driven by an interrupt
[15:58] <Joel_re> fsphil: so the plan was I reconfigure the uart for each tx, rx
[15:58] <mattbrejza> msp430 has timer interrupts
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[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon
[15:58] <fsphil> if you still wanna share the uart, then just transmit as often as possible
[15:58] <Joel_re> hmm
[15:59] <fsphil> listen to the gps until you get a position, transmit
[15:59] <fsphil> repeat
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: did you get that code up and running?
[15:59] <Joel_re> hmm
[15:59] <fsphil> woo, escape office time
[16:00] <Bo_DK_Working> Do we have an SITE admin in the house???????
[16:01] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: UKHAS site?
[16:01] <Bo_DK_Working> yep
[16:01] <craag> What's the matter?
[16:01] <Bo_DK_Working> lost pass
[16:01] <Willdude123> Box_DK_Working as in a wiki admin? Do you need approval
[16:01] <Bo_DK_Working> and the site does not send mail
[16:01] <craag> Ah ok, try in #habhub
[16:02] <Bo_DK_Working> checked spam folder of course
[16:02] <Willdude123> I'm pretty sure I lost my pass at some point and was able to reset.
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[16:03] <Willdude123> Is anyone free to just check my schematic to see if I've missed anything?
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> I'm here Willdude123
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> May I have a look?
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[16:05] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, sure
[16:05] <Willdude123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/board.sch
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> ta
[16:06] <Willdude123> Sorry was just uploading it.
[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Could you do a screenshot instead, not got Eagle where I am at the minute
[16:06] <Willdude123> Oh crap
[16:06] <Willdude123> Just did a wiring test.
[16:06] <Willdude123> A load of errors
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> Screenshots are a lot easier generally to save downloading and uploading all the time
[16:08] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/m5kyfXt
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> Looks good, but just a couple of things you might want to think about:
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> I would reccomend decoupling capacitors on the Ublox.
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> A 10uF should to it on the top right VCC pins
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> Sorry, 0.1uF
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> NTX2 circuit is fine
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> Not 100% certain on the antennas but I'll check that out now
[16:11] <Willdude123> Decoupling capacitor?
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[16:12] <Willdude123> What does that do? How does it decouple?
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[16:12] <ibanezmatt13_> Lost internet
[16:13] <Willdude123> Note all the errors in the corner.
[16:13] <Willdude123> Fixed a few.
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13_> Yeah, don't worry about those for now
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13_> https://github.com/sparkfun/SparkFun-Eagle-Libraries
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13_> Download the .zip file
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13_> Unzip it and drop it into your libraries directory in Eagle
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13_> Program files x86, Eagle6.4.0, lib etc
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[16:14] <ibanezmatt13_> Once you've got that we can sort those errors out
[16:15] <mfa298_> Willdude123: decoupling caps are there to provide power for digital chips as they switch,
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[16:16] Nick change: ibanezmatt13_ -> ibanezmatt13
[16:16] <Bo_DK_Working> any that uses chatzilla?
[16:17] <mfa298_> also I suspect you need to do something with a few more pins on the UBlox - you'll probably need to read the datasheet to find out
[16:17] <Bo_DK_Working> have a small Q
[16:18] <Bo_DK_Working> how do i get the user list to be on right side?
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[16:30] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13_ done
[16:31] <Upu> ping KT5TK your twitter got hacked :/
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[16:33] <Willdude123> Upu do you play battlefield much?
[16:34] <Willdude123> I see that you're a lead farmer motherf*cker
[16:34] <S_Mark> Is it possible to use the atmega328 timer2 for the radio interrupt? Does anyone know, has anyone tried it? I think timer2 is 8bit, compared to the 16bit timer1
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[16:35] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13 done
[16:45] <Willdude123> So is the purpose of a decoupling capacitor to store energy and then if the supply voltage is too low, even it out to 5v ?
[16:45] <Willdude123> Or 3v3
[16:46] <mfa298_> its to store energy
[16:46] <mfa298_> but it's more a case of the chips need a lot of current as they switch but it's very brief.
[16:47] <mfa298_> so having a capacitor close means it can provide that current
[16:48] <chrisstubbs> Nice, the advertised "GPS Tracker" I got only actually provides a GSM cell ID
[16:48] <chrisstubbs> time for another ebay dispute thanks to hopeless sellers
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[16:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Didn't they specify what type of tracker / module it was then ?
[16:51] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> Nope, Chinese shit XD
[16:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah always a danger :-(
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[16:54] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs: mine did not even connect to GSM network
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[16:55] <chrisstubbs> Lol
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[16:56] <chrisstubbs> Yeah this only reports back with a link to a JPEG map with some chinese text on it. The map is just blue (google maps sea)
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[17:03] <Babs> daveake - i saw a digger with your surname on it from the train this afternoon. it wasn't too near from your home but i imagine it wasn't yours.
[17:05] <mfa298_> is that the new HAB recovery system.
[17:05] <craag> lol that would be fantastic
[17:06] <craag> "all surplus from the ukhas conference will go towards buying the meanest JCB we can get"
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[17:12] <mfa298_> Ah, but should we have a JCB or speedboart first as a recovery vehicle.
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[17:14] <chrisstubbs> speedborat would be fun
[17:14] <craag> Especially when trying to catch a non-waterproof payload!
[17:14] <craag> Catch it or lose it
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> Not sure if borat can swim
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> might not be so useful for that
[17:14] <craag> lol no
[17:22] <Willdude123> Hmm my granddad seems a bit confused about how the ublox is soldered on.
[17:23] <Willdude123> He has something like a 15w with no temperature control.
[17:23] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC|Away
[17:23] <Willdude123> I will need to watch some SMT videos.
[17:23] <Willdude123> He wondered if we could solder some form of holder onto the board and then clip it into place.
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> That sounds unlikely
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> And/or expensive
[17:28] <Babs> willdude - i just used headers on mine for exactly that reason. worked ok and i doubly secured it to stop it popping out http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8626444876/in/set-72157632733154985 you can just about see the black wire tie
[17:28] <SpeedEvil> ah
[17:28] <Babs> i was worried about rubbish soldering overheating the ublox. this counteracted the impact of potential fat fingers.
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[17:30] <mfa298_> hmmm, holder for the UBlox, isn't that basicly a breakout board ?
[17:31] <arko> Babs: nice
[17:32] <craag> I soldered together a bunch of the pico breakout boards at work the other week, forgot when ordering them that we only had a maplin large-tip soldering iron.
[17:32] <craag> It's ok.. until you manage to solder the metal case to the antenna pin!!! arggh...
[17:33] <craag> Had to butcher the shielding on one of them a bit, but they all work :)
[17:37] <Willdude123> Please tell me I've been pronouncing solder right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY
[17:38] <arko> for a brit you probably have
[17:38] <arko> "soulder"
[17:39] <arko> americans pronouce it "sod-er"
[17:40] <Willdude123> Why>
[17:40] <Willdude123> Sod-er means "screw her" :P
[17:40] <arko> vOv
[17:40] <arko> doesn't mean that here
[17:40] mikestir (~quassel@2001:470:1f09:1c2b:eca5:5ef:5fe5:9692) joined #highaltitude.
[17:41] <Willdude123> Any good SMT video-guides?
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[17:44] pi_ (~pi@cpc1-cmbg10-0-0-cust144.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:49] <Willdude123> Hmm found quite a good sparkfun video on smt. Would show my granddad but the guy who does it is covered in tattoos.
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[17:50] <SpeedEvil> I suspect he has seen a tattooed person before.
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[17:51] <ibanezmatt13> Evening
[17:52] cuddykid (~acudworth@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:53] <BrainDamage> Willdude123: http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101
[17:53] LeoBodnar (5685d3d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc:
[17:53] <ibanezmatt13> ping Willdude123
[17:53] <Willdude123> Pong
[17:53] <BrainDamage> see also http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/Solder_Paste_and_Toaster_Oven
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Did you install those libraries?
[17:54] <Willdude123> Yeah
[17:54] <ibanezmatt13> Cool
[17:54] <Willdude123> just studying SMD soldering
[17:55] <eroomde> actually 'sod' would be 'screw him'
[17:55] <eroomde> it's mano-a-mano
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> Hey eroomde :)
[17:55] <eroomde> yoyo ibanezmatt13
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> I'm going ahead with Further Maths
[17:56] <eroomde> good man
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> So Willdude123, do you want some help with the rest of that schematic?
[17:56] <eroomde> you'll be fine
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> I hope so
[17:56] <Willdude123> Yesh please.
[17:57] <mfa298_> and remember there are plenty of people to ask if you get stuck
[17:57] <eroomde> yep
[17:57] <Willdude123> Do you have access to eagle ibanezmatt13 ?
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> Yes, I wouldn't have taken it otherwise :)
[17:57] <eroomde> you've a channel full of mathematically inclined people
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> Yes Willdude123
[17:57] <Willdude123> eroomde, not until I leave. :)
[17:57] <arko> 4+3=potato
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[17:58] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I'll give you the latest version of it.
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: I'll give you a join.me tutorial if you want but you'll have to make sure you take notes
[17:59] <Willdude123> In what? Fixing the errors with the schematic.
[17:59] <Willdude123> ?
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> everthing if you'll take notes :)
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> Even the board
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> And sending it off
[18:00] <Willdude123> That'd be good thanks.
[18:00] <Willdude123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/board.sch
[18:00] <Babs> arko - in the words of the Killers, you got soul, but you're not a solder
[18:00] <arko> lol
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> Ah, one sec Willdude123, just gott a log out and back in again
[18:00] ibanezmatt13 (56a73d7f@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[18:01] <Willdude123> Last time I checked, solder had an L in it.
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[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> Back
[18:02] <ibanezmatt13> Could you resend that link Willdude123 ?
[18:03] <Willdude123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/board.sch
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> ta
[18:03] <Willdude123> ta?
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> Northern dialect
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> thank*
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> s
[18:04] <Willdude123> Oh, it's northener for thanks.
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[18:04] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, aren't you launching soon?
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> Saturday :)
[18:05] <Willdude123> Is there an announcement?
[18:05] <Willdude123> On the list.
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, It's right at the bottom of the list, I'll re do it soon
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> https://join.me/227-456-902
[18:06] <Willdude123> Where?
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna use notepad to talk to you in join.me. If you get stuck, tell me and I'll stop
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> Launching cambridge
[18:06] <Willdude123> Wait
[18:06] <Willdude123> You don't have teamspeak/skype do you?
[18:06] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: EARS or Churchill?
[18:06] <mattbrejza> you have a good prediction for it ibanezmatt13
[18:07] <Randomskk> ah I see it
[18:07] <Randomskk> elsworth, cool
[18:07] <Randomskk> good luck
[18:07] <mfa298_> I've heard plenty of southeners using ta as well as thank you.
[18:08] <Willdude123> I haven't/
[18:08] <mfa298_> so it's not just a northern thing.
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> uy
[18:08] <Willdude123> OK. I've not heard it.
[18:08] <mfa298_> maybe they're too posh around basingstoke.
[18:08] <Randomskk> I say and hear ta >_>
[18:09] <Willdude123> Not at all. I think I'd heard it a few times. just never really understood it's meaning.
[18:10] Nick change: pi_ -> Boggle_pi
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[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: How are you intending to power the board?
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[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Sorry. Elsworth
[18:12] <Willdude123> BBB VCC
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I know, looking forward :)
[18:12] <Willdude123> (3v3)
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Are there any current limitations on the BBB 3v3 line?
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> Otherwise a regulator may be better so you can power it with anything
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> Up to you
[18:13] <Willdude123> Around 250ma I think.
[18:13] <Willdude123> Had powered both radio and GPS before.
[18:13] <ibanezmatt13> Should be fine then
[18:13] <Willdude123> Nah I'll leave it as is.
[18:14] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[18:19] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, you're having connection probs
[18:20] <chrisstubbs> Ping Upu
[18:21] LeoBodnar (5c116e74@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> ok Willdude123 :)
[18:22] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I was gonna use the taoglas.
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> I think that's ok
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I've left it in :)
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> Evening!
[18:22] <chrisstubbs> Hi LeoBodnar
[18:22] <Willdude123> OK. It just looked like you selected a sarantel.
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I did, but that Tagolas will be fine, I did it out of habit :)
[18:22] <Willdude123> nvm
[18:23] <Willdude123> OK
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ok so, do you think you'll be able to make those changes?
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[18:24] <Willdude123> What do you mean?
[18:25] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, just pause one sec.
[18:25] <Willdude123> Dinner
[18:25] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Stoop
[18:25] <Willdude123> *stop
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> sorry
[18:25] <Willdude123> LOL
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[18:25] <Willdude123> Right afk dinner
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[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> Might start my payload going for another test
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> spacenear.us/tracker Payload's working good :)
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> wow! Those predictions have changed haven't they. I was predicted to go into the North Sea yesterday!
[18:31] <fsphil> many a good payload has landed there :)
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> cool :)
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[18:34] <Brew_> ibanezmatt13 sorry for the slow response yes all like a dream now thanks, however there is always more I'd like to trigger a python script upon going above say 28,000m i guess i can just do a IF altitude < 28000 run x.py?
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> excellent Brew_ !
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, that's a good idea
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> Something you might want to do as well
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> ...
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> Create a bash script which constantly tries to restart the program. So if it's already running nothing happens, if it stops for some reason, it restarts it :)
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB/blob/master/NORB.sh
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> So in a loop it'll try to run the program, wait a second, try to run it again, etc...
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[18:37] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: I take it that eventually you'll be running this from boot?
[18:37] <PaulCDR> Evening folks, has anyone got any ideas for a good antenna design for a HAB
[18:38] <mfa298_> PaulCDR: most people make a simple groundplan antenna
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> There's a great tutorial on the wiki PaulCDR, a new one
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> ^^
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> that one :)
[18:38] <Bo_DK_Working> zeusbot..... nice... a page more for me to translate
[18:39] <PaulCDR> Ahh yes, thats the ticket, cheers, didnt realize that had been added.
[18:39] <chrisstubbs> Zeusbot has been behaving recently
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[18:39] <chrisstubbs> griffonbot seems to still be dead
[18:39] <mfa298_> Bo_DK_Working: I think the only one that has generally been translated is the tracking guide. If you start translating everything you'll have a big job as people keep updating things
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[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:40] <mfa298_> griffonbot seems to have been MIA for a while.
[18:40] <Brew_> Ah yes my plan was to make it start on boot I'd not thoughtht about ensuring it keeps running.
[18:40] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe....
[18:40] <Bo_DK_Working> that was the plan
[18:40] <Bo_DK_Working> ie bring up site tree and take from top to button
[18:40] <mfa298_> means I actually have to check my email for launch announcments
[18:40] <Bo_DK_Working> others can then edit my spelling errors
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: Are you ready to make it run from boot?
[18:41] <mfa298_> Bo_DK_Working: the problem is that pages keep being edited as well.
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[18:41] <Bo_DK_Working> but so far i know there is only me and another dane....
[18:41] <Brew_> yeah I'll just look up how todo that
[18:41] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm....
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: sudo nano /etc/rc.local
[18:41] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298_: could be nice with an mail wen pages are created or changed
[18:41] <Brew_> nice one thanks
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[18:42] <mfa298_> there's probably not much need to translate the whole wiki. The tracking guide is useful for when ham's have been recruited to help track a payload.
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: Before you do, shall we sort these bash scripts out so it restarts if need be?
[18:42] <mfa298_> if people are looking at HAB stuff they're likely to put some more effort in to read a page in a foreign language.
[18:43] <Brew_> ibanezmatt13, yeah that would be great I've a few other jobs todo first
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: Cool, do you have an email address I can send some info to?
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> PM Brew_ Hi
[18:43] <Brew_> Brew@wonder.co.uk
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> oh, cool
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[18:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All
[18:47] <Willdude123> Bo_DK_Working, there's a recent changes list.
[18:47] <Willdude123> ping ibanezmatt13
[18:48] <Bo_DK_Working> oh
[18:48] <Bo_DK_Working> nice
[18:48] <Bo_DK_Working> :-)
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: :)
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> Brew_: You got mail dude
[18:48] <Willdude123> 1 point to me.
[18:48] <Willdude123> Your turn to serve.
[18:48] <Willdude123> :P
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> don't get it
[18:49] <Willdude123> I pinged, you didn't pong.
[18:49] <Brew_> contact nice one thanks
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> bps
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> nps rather
[18:49] <Willdude123> A point to me.
[18:49] <Willdude123> Right.
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see, well technically 15 but go on
[18:49] <Willdude123> Can you start join.me again?
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> or is that only tennis...
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> sure
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> btw, join.me gives me connections problems as you saw earlier
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> But hey ho
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> https://join.me/430-902-767
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> let's give it a go
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[18:51] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: What do you need to know next?
[18:51] <Willdude123> Can you send me the new sch file plz?
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> Why don't you try to make the changes yourself? :) I had to when I was learning
[18:52] <Willdude123> Sure. I think my notes are adequate.
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> Can you see the schematic still?
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[18:53] <Willdude123> yeah
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> cool, let me know when you're done :)
[18:53] <Willdude123> Can you give me the part no of the caps and the header please?
[18:53] <Willdude123> *the cap
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> sure
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> M05PTH (M05)
[18:53] <Willdude123> Also I didn't see is RFout a pad or antenn?
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> Well it will be pads that you solder an SMA connector to
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[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> Just in case you ever want to hook up an antenna
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> But of course you don't need it for testing
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13> brb, need to rehydrate
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, how much did you get that logic analyser for in the end?
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[18:56] <Willdude123> 50 quid I think
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> Nice
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[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: CAP0805 (CAP)
[18:57] <Willdude123> K
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> (SMA_EDGE)
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> By the way Will, I replaced the NTX2 vertical for the other NTX2. It looks a lot nicer on a PCB. Right click the NTX2, click replace, then select the non-vertical one :)
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> If you're going with hackvana you can play with 50x50mm before the price goes up; plenty room for a nice flat NTX2
[19:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> ping UPU
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[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> On a very serious note, is this not the most disturbing video ever? Especially when the snake comes on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGlyFc79BUE
[19:03] <Willdude123> No
[19:04] <Willdude123> I have seen disturbing videos even worse than that.
[19:04] <Willdude123> (by accident of course)
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[19:04] <Willdude123> Ones I can't link to in here.
[19:04] <Willdude123> My year 4 teacher showed that to us.
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> How's the schematic going?
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[19:05] <Willdude123> Reasonably well
[19:06] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4362704812/in/set-72157621846323425/
[19:06] <eroomde> note the silkscreen
[19:06] <eroomde> made that in 2008
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[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> wow eroomde, looks goo
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> good*
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> what was on it?
[19:07] <eroomde> no, look at the silkscreen
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> I like the way it was called badger
[19:07] <eroomde> note the logo
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> aah yeah
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[19:08] <Willdude123> I think the animator could have been a bit less detailed with the certain details of the badgers, if you look closely you can actually see their bouncing let's not go there.
[19:09] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I challenge you to a badger contest.
[19:09] <Willdude123> WHo can listen for the longest.
[19:09] <Willdude123> Uninterrupted.
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> No way
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: By the way, the GPS antenna wasn't actually connected to the pin; if you move it you'll see
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> touch -c eroomde
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[19:11] <Willdude123> It needs to be though.
[19:11] <Willdude123> On my one, it's connected via a short connection
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> no Willdude123, move the actual component, you'll see it isn't connected like it should be
[19:12] <eroomde> what LeoBodnar
[19:12] <Willdude123> It is on mine.
[19:13] <Willdude123> On my one it's off a bit
[19:13] <Willdude123> Should it be?
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> This is so good it's probably illegal: http://nldr.library.ucar.edu/collections/technotes/asset-000-000-000-021.pdf
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> When you move it, a green wire should keep it connected whereever it is
[19:13] <eroomde> intriguingly named
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> Try moving another component and you'll see
[19:13] <eroomde> it's coming in over our super slow wirless
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> brace for goodness
[19:15] <Willdude123> Yeah
[19:15] <Willdude123> that's what happens with it
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[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> good
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, why?
[19:17] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, i have this paper!
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah the Lally paper
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> project GHOS
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> +T
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[19:17] <LeoBodnar> Hehe I have just "discovered" it
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[19:18] <LeoBodnar> Why nobody pointed it out to me earlier?
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[19:19] <LeoBodnar> Should be on a HAB foundation course
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> do you know the Scientific Ballooning Handbook?
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> I don't know anything about ballooning Lunar_Lander and this is not a joke
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:20] <Willdude123> Right should be done
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> you can find the Scientific Ballooning Handbook at UCAR as well
[19:20] <Willdude123> Can you have a look at my finished one?
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> Lally: "For a number of years the promise of long duration flight with superpressure balloons has been taken on faith alone."
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> Still true
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:21] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, so far done 10 minutes of badger badger badger
[19:21] <Willdude123> It's actually a pretty good tune.
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> LOL
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> brb, just gotta go shop
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[19:27] <Willdude123> Right time to think of an inventive name.
[19:28] <Willdude123> Well there's "HOBNOB" High OrBit (NOt really) Balloon
[19:29] <chrisstubbs> I still think ANU5 wins best payload name
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: HOBNOB - High orbit but not orbit balloon
[19:30] <Willdude123> British Orbital (Not really) New Experimental Research
[19:30] <Willdude123> BONER
[19:30] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-136-118-2.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:30] <Willdude123> Or.
[19:30] Hiena (~boreger@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:30] <Willdude123> EAGLE
[19:30] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm... can i press PAUSE?
[19:30] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[19:30] <Bo_DK_Working> translating the site and came to this: http://ukhas.org.uk/parawing
[19:30] <Bo_DK_Working> does it belong?
[19:30] <Bo_DK_Working> could not figure
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, ROFL
[19:31] <Willdude123> Bo_DK_Working, on what? Not much hab equipment have pause buttons.
[19:31] <number10> we have sort of had ANU5 chrisstubbs - I cheated a bit
[19:32] <Willdude123> English And German Learning Experiment.
[19:32] <Willdude123> Lunar_Lander, I can call it German because you helped at one point with something.
[19:33] <number10> I did large balloouns ANU 1,2,3.. then did two Picos for launches 4 and 5 (although callsign was NANU)
[19:33] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Around?
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> ja
[19:34] <Willdude123> Can you have a quick check of my final schematic?
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> go for it
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[19:36] <Willdude123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9477294/board.sch
[19:37] Nick change: staylo_ -> staylo
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
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[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> remember will, pics are nice for quick looks at things :)
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> ok for now though
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> those three labels are confusing me a bit Willdude123. Pull them out a bit, the green wire is only supposed to touch the tip of the label
[19:39] <chrisstubbs> LMAO picked up some PMR activity on the radio
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> they're ok Willdude123 but it just looks a bit neater
[19:39] <chrisstubbs> "KOOORR another nice pair of legs, what is it with the runners tonight"
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> haha chrisstubbs :)
[19:39] <chrisstubbs> sounds like local sec somewhere, no idea where, there is nothing around here...
[19:40] <chrisstubbs> hmmm could be the little gym actually if its runners
[19:40] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, it's a huge faf to get them and not the wire so I'm gonna just go ahead.
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[19:41] <Willdude123> Wow. That really is crap, you can't move things together outside the board
[19:42] <Randomskk> use kicad :P
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[19:42] <Willdude123> Well couldn't someone write a script to move them 1 by 1
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> ok Willdude123, schematic looks fine
[19:44] <Willdude123> So, how do I move them all at the same time?
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I'm not sure there's a job that does it so you can either do it yourself or just leave it
[19:45] <Willdude123> Well it's out of the allowed area so I'll have to move it
[19:46] <Willdude123> Ahah moved it successfully.
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:46] <Willdude123> So is that all now?
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> for the schematic yeah
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> check out Blum's board video, part 2
[19:46] <Willdude123> Good
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> when ready of course
[19:53] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, How come his board background is black
[19:53] <Willdude123> Mine is white
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Mine does that sometimes, I'll tell you how to fix it
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Go to options -> user interface
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> there you can change the board background to black
[19:56] <Willdude123> Oh crap.
[19:56] <Willdude123> I just realised the antenna is connected to RFGND
[19:57] <Randomskk> that's partially ok
[19:57] <Randomskk> the antenna should be connected to rf out and rf ground
[19:57] <Randomskk> http://randomskk.net/u/rfout.png
[19:57] <Randomskk> ntx2, sma socket
[19:58] <Randomskk> the number of times that drawing has come up. should have spent more time on it,.
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> I like watercolour
[20:00] <eroomde> that is perfect tho
[20:00] <eroomde> we need zeusbot to have a shortcut to it
[20:01] <Randomskk> shame I didn't label it
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, nice drawing
[20:05] <Willdude123> All these airwires are hard to understand
[20:05] <arko> looks like crayon physics
[20:07] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, this looks so confusing. I can't figure out if everything is in the right place.
[20:08] <Willdude123> Or going to the right component.
[20:08] <arko> Randomskk next time try using cake to illustrate http://i.imgur.com/U5f5ODJ.jpg
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[20:08] <Randomskk> lol
[20:09] <Randomskk> or bread. if only i could use bread.
[20:09] <Randomskk> my sourdough lunch rolls came out so great
[20:09] <arko> artisan pcb bread
[20:09] <arko> whole new meaning to breadboard
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: I'm going off soon so I can't really give you a tutorial tonight, but wait one sec I have something for you
[20:09] <Randomskk> mmmm https://www.dropbox.com/sc/w223a8tdh6jssyg/onssYJW2g0
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: What colour will your breakout be?
[20:09] <arko> oh damn
[20:09] <arko> those look good
[20:10] <arko> i can just watch people making bread for hours on end
[20:10] <Randomskk> you bet they were
[20:10] <Randomskk> I can just make bread for hours on end
[20:10] <arko> i wish i could
[20:10] <Willdude123> Green probably,
[20:10] <Randomskk> well I would probably get worn out from that much kneading
[20:10] <Randomskk> but yea in theory
[20:10] <arko> lol
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Blue with white text looks nice btw, as does red
[20:10] <Willdude123> OK
[20:10] <Randomskk> black is cool too. though often a bit more expensive these days
[20:10] <Randomskk> black with white text and gold plating for everything
[20:10] <Willdude123> I'll leave it for today.
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> Unfortunately Randomskk, hackvana don't do black for small scale orders :(
[20:11] <Randomskk> really?
[20:11] <Randomskk> my qty 5 order was black
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Looks terrible but this is what you're on the way to: http://gerblook.org/pcb/y7REpGko6duS5EYNBbhkLS#front
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, can you call i the beagleboneblackblackbreakoutboard
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> wait, that might have been yellow Rna
[20:11] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/9548852080/in/set-72157635144755964
[20:11] <Randomskk> so good
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk ^
[20:11] <Randomskk> ah ok
[20:11] <Randomskk> yea I guess
[20:11] <Randomskk> yellow is cool
[20:12] <Willdude123> It's just it's really rather difficult to see if eagle has got the airwires right.
[20:12] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, ok
[20:12] <Willdude123> I'll leave it there for today.
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> Of course Willdude123, the text is a bit dodgy and it needs neatening up but nearly there :)
[20:12] <Willdude123> At first I thought BBB was just an incredibly specific bra size.
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, go get a coke or something and watch tv
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Right, gonna go light a fire in the garden
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> [controlled fire]
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Good night :)
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[20:17] <arko> cool video of storm formations http://vimeo.com/67995158
[20:19] <fsphil> this is a great planet
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[20:20] <arko> agreed
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[20:21] <arko> makes me wonder how many other amazing storms and phenomena occur else where.. if only we had HD cameras there
[20:21] <arko> hi
[20:21] <fsphil> yea was just wondering if this sort of thing happened on Mars before it froze
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> today had an interesting discussion on Curiosity
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> or the sucessor
[20:21] <fsphil> how different would a thunderstorm be in the lower gravity
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> one of the ph.d. students in my group said it would be interesting to send a raman spectrometer to mars
[20:22] <arko> fsphil: oooo good point
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[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> arko, do you know if this has been considered?
[20:23] <arko> no idea
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[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> how does it go normally?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> is there a request for suggestions and then universities send in proposals for instruments?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> or does JPL/NASA say "we want to measure ABC and XY"
[20:32] <fsphil> bit of both probably
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[20:33] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: got the linear stepper fired up today
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> seems to work ok
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> I'm pleased
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> Does it stick when vertical
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> ?
[20:33] <arko> Lunar, it's complicated
[20:33] <arko> and different each mission
[20:34] <arko> flying something on mars 2020 or curiosity isn't usually open to universities to just apply
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[20:34] <arko> small parts maybe, but nothing like a big player instrument
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: no, tend to roll down
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> but i have a hundered gram sensor on it
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> the bearing seem a bit gunged up
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> im going to try cleaning and re lubricating with IPA
[20:36] <Willdude123> I keep getting kicked off BF3 servers
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> *cleaning with IPA
[20:36] <Willdude123> For having a high ping
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[20:37] <Laurenceb_> also need to rewrite my code, atm im doing 1/8 microstepping
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> if thats reduced to 1/32 or something it should make it quieter
[20:37] <wrea> 1/64 or gtfo :P
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> busy writing my PhD thesis atm - I need the actuator to redo some of the expeirments
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> but thats not for a chapter or so
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> so writing frantically atm :P
[20:38] <arko> LeoBodnar: any more B-# flights?
[20:38] <wrea> 1/16 is good improvement over 1/8
[20:38] <Bo_DK_Working> hehehehe... i managed to make an entry on wiki about my project
[20:38] <Bo_DK_Working> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:ukhas_autonomus_tracker
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> wrea: atm im using this setup http://i.imgur.com/hqM1Rsg.jpg
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: but does it need backpressure to keep on the rail?
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: no
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> arko: waiting for benign weather
[20:41] <arko> ah
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> its got about 80N pulling it on
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> crazy strong
[20:42] <arko> i was starting to miss saying "holy cow it's still flying!"
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[20:42] <wrea> What driver are you using?
[20:42] <LeoBodnar> wiki != blog
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> wrea: allegro thingy
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> so i just need to change some GPIO and pwm settings
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> I'm sure you'll have the chance yet
[20:44] <wrea> I use A4982 's on my 3D printer
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah same here iirc
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> im using a modified Firgelli L12 actuator
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> but its a bit lame
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> loads of blacklash
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> direct drive with a stepper rather than a DC gearmotor
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[20:53] <Bo_DK_Working> anybody have time to rewiew my auto tracker board so far?
[20:53] <Bo_DK_Working> was about to connect up gps module etc but not sure how
[20:54] <Bo_DK_Working> its for Beagle Bone Black and not 100% sure on what pins etc
[20:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> well... thats IT :) http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/257752838.html
[20:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/257752837.html
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> SP9UOB-Tom, hi
[20:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, do you have time for another kicad question?
[20:56] <Randomskk> don't ask to ask
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> OK, just didn't want to bother
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah on the weekend I first tried to make a footprint in the pcbnew editor mode
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> but then saving didn't go so well
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. I got a MOD file, but there was something like a security lock to the side of the file icon
[20:57] <Steve_2E0VET> Whats the point of an AVR programmer when i have to take the shield off to upload the sketch
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> and I think it wasn't saved when I checked in the folder
[20:57] <Randomskk> huh. that's weird. might be filesystem permissions. windows?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> let me think
[20:57] <Randomskk> odd. doesn't sound like kicad
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> where did I save it to
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> I got KiCAD in the libraries - documents
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> on win 7
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[20:58] <Randomskk> uhm
[20:58] <Randomskk> so you select working lib, make new part, then hit the 'save part to library' button
[20:58] <Randomskk> should be good
[20:58] <Randomskk> you can open the .mod files in a text editor to check
[20:58] <Randomskk> they're just text files
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> interestingly VLC media player is associated to them
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> no wait, I said nonsense, KiCAD itself is in program files
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> how can I make a library completely on my own?
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[21:00] <Randomskk> uhm, save to new library or something
[21:00] <Randomskk> yea
[21:00] <Randomskk> third icon from left
[21:00] <Randomskk> "create new library and save current module"
[21:01] <Randomskk> so open editor
[21:01] <Randomskk> click new module button (6th from left)
[21:01] <Randomskk> make your module
[21:01] <Randomskk> click new lib button (3rd from left)
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> OK, let me try it
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[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, I could save it now to the documents folder, where the project files are
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> but now I can't select that library when going to the add part window in pcbnew
[21:04] <Randomskk> in pcbnew to to prefs/libraries and add the library
[21:04] <Randomskk> it won't be added automatically
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> YES
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> worked :)
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:08] <Willdude123> Bo_DK_Working, I'll have a look at it it you want
[21:09] <Bo_DK_Working> ok... let me just save an upload to dropbox
[21:10] <Bo_DK_Working> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ffhrigdf29zb5om/CdkEst8aoL
[21:10] <Bo_DK_Working> very crude
[21:10] <Bo_DK_Working> might even have gotten errors on it
[21:11] <Bo_DK_Working> the compas chip i was unsure how to connect...
[21:11] <Bo_DK_Working> SCL is i2c right?
[21:11] <Bo_DK_Working> what about SDI ?
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[21:11] <Bo_DK_Working> also in dropbox is datasheets etc
[21:14] <Willdude123> Hmm
[21:14] <Willdude123> SCL and SDA are i2c clock and data line
[21:15] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[21:15] <Babs___>
[21:15] <Babs___> Do
[21:16] <Bo_DK_Working> so i can let go of SDI
[21:16] <Bo_DK_Working> compas will only send
[21:16] <Bo_DK_Working> so makes sense
[21:16] <Bo_DK_Working> it just have 2 protocols etc
[21:16] <Bo_DK_Working> stupid me
[21:17] <Willdude123> Yeah I don't really understand this board.
[21:17] <Willdude123> Is it a cape?
[21:17] <Bo_DK_Working> no... something i have done myself
[21:17] <Willdude123> Could be both.
[21:18] <Bo_DK_Working> but will effectively be a HAB cape in the end
[21:18] <Willdude123> Is it designed to slot into the BBB?
[21:18] <Bo_DK_Working> will be
[21:18] <Bo_DK_Working> just need to find a footprint to adjust it too
[21:18] <Bo_DK_Working> to
[21:18] <Bo_DK_Working> board not even started yet
[21:18] <Bo_DK_Working> thou i have done some crude layout
[21:19] <Bo_DK_Working> the idea short is
[21:19] <Willdude123> Yeah OK. So the idea is it's a GPS with solar charger?
[21:19] <Bo_DK_Working> the BBB listens for payloads and and points the yagi the right place
[21:20] <Bo_DK_Working> and it will connect to server and deliver data
[21:20] <Bo_DK_Working> gps is just so it knows where it is
[21:20] <Bo_DK_Working> compas so it know what direction its pointing
[21:20] <Bo_DK_Working> charger so it can charge from sun and keep itself alive
[21:20] <Willdude123> Ah right I get that now.
[21:21] <Bo_DK_Working> fully autonomus tracker/listner
[21:21] <Willdude123> Interesting, can't help you with it though-sorry
[21:21] <Willdude123> Well,
[21:21] <Bo_DK_Working> np...
[21:22] <Bo_DK_Working> need to figure how to make board a cape
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[21:22] <Willdude123> I could show you my schematic for my GPS and NTX2 breakout-haven't designed board yet.
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[21:22] <Bo_DK_Working> also missing an LCD and 4 buttons
[21:22] <Willdude123> Try asking in #beagle
[21:22] <Willdude123> Hi ibanezmatt13
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Will
[21:22] <Bo_DK_Working> are they here on freenode also?
[21:22] <Willdude123> Yeh
[21:24] <Bo_DK_Working> ok... wild Q to everyone here... ever tried to track sun?
[21:24] Action: bertrik didn't realise that THOR is so slow
[21:24] <Bo_DK_Working> i know some say just plook south
[21:25] <Bo_DK_Working> but there are gains in tracking...
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[21:25] <Bo_DK_Working> read a bit about it
[21:25] <Bo_DK_Working> just wondered if any have done it
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[21:27] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I might just have a brief look at the board.
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> Sure, but I've done enough Eagle tonight I'm afraid
[21:28] <Willdude123> OK
[21:28] <Willdude123> With some of the airwires, it's hard to tell what they're connected to
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, there's a button called ratsnest you probably saw in that tutorial video
[21:29] <ibanezmatt13> Move the components first, hit ratsnest and it should clean them up for you
[21:29] <Willdude123> Yeah but even then it's difficult.
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> I know, you'll get used to it. Just move the components around a bit. Don't forget, you can click the eye icon and click and airwire and it'll tell you what it is
[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> The eye icon shows you where to connect it, the I icon shows you what it's called and gives you a load of info
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[21:35] <Upu-> hey bertrik do you have THOR working ?
[21:36] <bertrik> no, not yet, but I have the thor tx stuff from dl-fldigi stripped down and compiling so far
[21:36] <bertrik> I'm looking at how the symbol timing and frequencies are done in the various sub-modes of thor
[21:37] <Upu-> ok cool
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[21:37] <ibanezmatt13> Hey Upu-, I'm all set for Saturday :) You ready for Sunday?
[21:37] <Upu-> no predictions are rubbish
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> evening anthony
[21:37] <Upu-> bertrik you can do DominoEX with an Arduino and an NTX2 + PWM
[21:37] <Upu-> hi Lunar
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> so what is it with radiometix and the NTX2B ?
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> you said you'll supply a miniature model of that?
[21:38] <Upu-> yes NTX2B but you can test it with NTX2
[21:38] <Upu-> as long as the temperature doesn't change
[21:38] <bertrik> Upu-: amazing, I guess you have to be careful with the PWM low-pass filter frequency then
[21:39] <Upu-> yeah you have to adjust the PWM frequency
[21:39] <Upu-> but stick a 120k resistor between TXD and the PWM pin
[21:39] <Upu-> and it gives the correct shift for DominoEX16
[21:40] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[21:41] <Upu> so if you do come up with some code you can test it fairly quickly
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: May I ask, did you take further maths at college? I know you did an engineering discipline at university
[21:42] <Upu> haha
[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:43] <Upu> no sadly I was more interested in girls and cars at 18 and didn't do too well in maths
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[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> ah, but you still did electronic/electrical engineering? :)
[21:43] <fsphil> chicks dig equations
[21:43] <Upu> though I did pick it up and did quite well in it at the first year of uni
[21:43] <Upu> electrical
[21:44] <Upu> but the first year was the same for mech, electrical, electronic
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> cool. Did you completely flunk it?
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> a level maths
[21:44] <Upu> A level I have the lowest ever recorded mock score at A-Level
[21:44] <Upu> at my school
[21:44] <Upu> I got an E at A Level
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> :O
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[21:45] <Upu> but when I went to Uni I got an A at the end of year exams in maths
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[21:45] <Upu> as I actually bothered to learn it
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[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, I've decided to take further maths as well as maths and physics :/
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> It may be the end of me
[21:46] <Upu> maths is actually quite interesting
[21:46] <Upu> well i think so
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> I may have to find a balloon capable of carrying 9 stone
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> I actually enjoy it Upu, very much
[21:47] <ibanezmatt13> it's just it doesn't come easy. As you saw when I was learning electronics on here
[21:47] <Upu> you'll be surprised once you get in the flow
[21:47] <mfa298_> When you do some of the really advanced maths things you've been taught earlier suddenly click.
[21:47] <ibanezmatt13> If it's explained to me in a certain way, it'll click in my mind and I'll understand.
[21:47] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah
[21:48] <Upu> especially when you're actively using the maths for some purpose
[21:48] <Upu> I think that was my issue at A-Level
[21:48] <Upu> I couldn't see the relevance
[21:48] <Upu> then we started actually using it at degree level
[21:48] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I should be ok
[21:48] <ibanezmatt13> I've got the work ethic [you can probably tell] :)
[21:49] <Upu> more than I had at your age
[21:49] <mfa298_> In my case I'd seen various graphs of radio bandwidths and roughly that it was a set of sinewaves, when I came accross fourier transforms I suddenly had the link between the two.
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad talks about those transforms and I've not a clue what he's on a bout
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> He got an E in maths at a level too Upu, he was like you :)
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> Im still waiting for FFT to click in my mind
[21:50] <Upu> this : http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/sine-wave
[21:50] <mfa298_> you probably don't want to worry about them yet. That was 2nd or 3rd year of an engineering degree. but it's the sort of useful tool for manipulating stuff
[21:50] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: That's crazy
[21:50] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298_: I'm just gonna take it as it comes tbh
[21:51] <Upu> And this : http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/pythagorean-theorem
[21:51] <fsphil> that page would drive a man insine
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[21:51] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[21:51] <mfa298_> I can see this going off on a tangent
[21:51] <Upu> hang on that didn't link
[21:52] <fsphil> tumblr is a weird place
[21:52] <chrisstubbs> This came up for sine: http://bit.ly/181pZYP
[21:52] <Upu> http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lztww5DssI1r9aow8o1_400.gif
[21:52] <chrisstubbs> How am I supposed to sleep now...
[21:52] <fsphil> lol
[21:52] <Upu> http://31.media.tumblr.com/44ffa212ce09fe14b9fbafe78f494cb6/tumblr_mfnn33sNPZ1qbh26io1_r1_400.gif
[21:52] <fsphil> he knows when you're sleeping chrisstubbs
[21:52] <arko> go home santa you're drunk
[21:53] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna be up all night now :)
[21:53] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, I'm still stumped starring blankly at all that hex data from a few days ago, not had a chance to look back at it yet!
[21:54] <fsphil> yea it's quite a lot of info
[21:54] <fsphil> best just to pick one packet and compare that
[21:54] <Upu> did you ping me earlier chrisstubbs ?
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Hope you enjoyed your break
[21:54] <fsphil> lol
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes upu, does your 5v breakout board for the ublox use a regulator to power the ublox?
[21:54] <Willdude123> Upu got my schematic done
[21:54] <chrisstubbs> well I guess it does, whats the upper limit for vin?
[21:54] <Upu> Yes chrisstubbs on board 3.3V reg
[21:54] <Upu> good Willdude123
[21:55] <Willdude123> Starting on the board
[21:55] <Upu> good luck :)
[21:55] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13 helped me
[21:55] <chrisstubbs> Darn i thouught habsupplies had the eagle files
[21:56] <ibanezmatt13> ah it was nothing :)
[21:56] <Upu> its just an LM3840 I think
[21:56] <Willdude123> I never said it was.
[21:56] <Steve_2E0VET> allways remember you get what you pay for.....
[21:56] <Willdude123> :P
[21:56] <chrisstubbs> LM384 5W Audio Power Amplifier
[21:56] <Steve_2E0VET> I paid £15 for an AVR programmer, what a deal... IT DONT WORK!!!!!
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> oh wrong numbers
[21:57] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/lm3480im3-3-3-nopb/ic-v-reg-linear-3-3v-smd/dp/1469102RL
[21:57] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_2E0VET: If you're on win8, proabably my issue
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> Ah nice one, thanks
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[21:57] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, win 7
[21:57] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, should work
[21:58] <ibanezmatt13> right, I'm off to bed.
[21:58] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, which one have you got
[21:58] <ibanezmatt13> amtel avr isp mk ii
[21:58] <ibanezmatt13> Night night
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[21:59] <chrisstubbs> I will have another crack at it tomorrow fsphil, managed to clear enough space on my desk to fit the camera again
[22:00] <chrisstubbs> Anyway, thanks upu and night all!
[22:00] <Upu> night
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[22:03] <Willdude123> With a ground plane/pour do I connect the components gnd to that or the BBBs ground?
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[22:05] <ibanezmatt13> Can't be bothered going to bed yet :P
[22:06] <ibanezmatt13> Somebody sent me a picture before of a really complex looking PCB for a tracker and it looked great. I'm wondering what people actually put on these complex ones...
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[22:07] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, With a ground plane/pour do I connect the components gnd to that or the BBBs ground?
[22:07] <Willdude123> * I mean pour not plane
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> well your BBBs ground will be connected to the header
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> So...
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: sensors, GPS, rf, processors, cutdowns
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> Connect to the pour
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> SpeedEvil: cutdowns?
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> like balloon detachment?
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[22:08] <Willdude123> So the header's ground should be connected to the pour?
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: There are some things I'm gonna have to show you about RF on your board at some point
[22:09] <Willdude123> Go on
[22:09] <ibanezmatt13> Basically, the ublox needs its own ground pour to avoid things called ground loops which generate a lot of noise and are bad
[22:09] <Willdude123> Well that sucks
[22:10] <ibanezmatt13> as well as that, you need a lot of vias, to effectively shield the rf from this
[22:10] <Willdude123> Oh yay
[22:10] <ibanezmatt13> don't forget you'll probably want a top and bottom gnd pour :) hence the need for vias
[22:10] <ibanezmatt13> you'll also need some vias around the RF tracks for both the NTX2 and ublox
[22:11] <ibanezmatt13> and some random vias to keep the gnd pours in sync thus your board happy :)
[22:11] <ibanezmatt13> bollocks, a huge daddy long leg has just entered my room. :O
[22:11] Action: ibanezmatt13 searches for weapon of mass destruction - a magazine
[22:12] <ibanezmatt13> and shuts window
[22:12] <fsphil> or just catch it and throw it out :)
[22:13] <ibanezmatt13> I have a bit of a phobia of things like this...
[22:13] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, it's now a part of a laplace transform in my maths book
[22:13] Action: ibanezmatt13 throws book out of window
[22:14] <ibanezmatt13> and shuts again
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[22:15] <fsphil> it's the only way to be sure
[22:15] <ibanezmatt13> exactly
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[22:16] <ibanezmatt13> Truthfully, I put it in the bin in some paper and the paper has just unfolded revealing the cretin. I think I may have to abandon my room
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[22:17] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I could hot glue it
[22:17] <fsphil> set a glass over it, slide some paper in under
[22:17] <fsphil> lift and release outside
[22:18] <fsphil> food for bigger animals
[22:18] <ibanezmatt13> nah, too risky. It could fall onto me and you could probably hear my reaction in Belfast
[22:18] <Willdude123> Does it matter?
[22:18] <navrac_home> evening all
[22:19] <Willdude123> You could squash it?
[22:19] <x-f> spiders don't bite actually
[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> Of course Willdude123, it's a very delicate matter, I think it's under control
[22:19] <x-f> (unless you're in Australia)
[22:19] <Willdude123> Just kill it.
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[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> It's been dead a while
[22:19] <fsphil> all spiders bite
[22:20] <x-f> you know what i mean!
[22:20] <fsphil> australia doesn't have any spiders .. just giant killer monsters
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> I think all arachnids should be banished from the universe
[22:20] <x-f> ibanezmatt13, imagine how many flies would you have in your house then
[22:20] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Can you go tthrough the rest of the process with me at some point?
[22:20] <fsphil> not banished, but made cuter
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> Flies can be banished too
[22:21] <ibanezmatt13> made cuter, then banished
[22:21] <fsphil> you can't banish cute!
[22:21] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Sure Will, but not tonight, I'm finished
[22:21] <Willdude123> yeah
[22:22] <ibanezmatt13> The board process is an entirely different process in itself I'm afraid
[22:23] <Willdude123> Is it long-winded?
[22:23] <ibanezmatt13> unfortunately
[22:23] <ibanezmatt13> It requires many notes anyway :)
[22:24] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: They kill rabbits
[22:26] <ibanezmatt13> See, this is why more people should take further maths: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5WcDfKndxU
[22:27] <fsphil> maths kills rabbits?
[22:28] <ibanezmatt13> entirely different subject ^^ :)
[22:29] <x-f> sounds like a plot for some comic
[22:29] Nick change: MichaelC|Away -> MichaelC
[22:29] <ibanezmatt13> "How do you like your rabbit"
[22:29] <fsphil> "I'm afraid little Socks got ... divided."
[22:29] <ibanezmatt13> "squared"
[22:29] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, My sister is doing AS maths
[22:30] <Willdude123> AS-equivalent rather
[22:30] <Willdude123> She hates it
[22:30] <ibanezmatt13> That's not good
[22:30] <Willdude123> Mostly because of my low-life maths teacher.
[22:30] <ibanezmatt13> Well, she's not at college is she
[22:30] <ibanezmatt13> or is she
[22:30] <ibanezmatt13> Oh I see what you mean
[22:31] <ibanezmatt13> My GCSE maths teacher was suprisingly ok. I didn't understand the subject but he made it somewhat interesting
[22:32] <ibanezmatt13> "Radius the rabbit was making his circular den when BAM! he was squared and divided into a Pi filled with Raspberries"
[22:32] <Willdude123> She's doing some form of AS-Equivalent maths .
[22:32] <Willdude123> After school though.
[22:33] <fsphil> My rabbit got quantised.
[22:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure she'll enjoy it more at college
[22:33] <ibanezmatt13> My rabbit got... transformed
[22:33] <ibanezmatt13> into a Pi
[22:33] <fsphil> it's now in a matrix
[22:33] <ibanezmatt13> With elements of...rabbit
[22:34] <mfa298_> I think maths probably gets more interesting once you get into the more advanced stuff. But unfortunately you've got to understand the basics first
[22:34] <Willdude123> DAE lose their pyjamas almost every day?
[22:34] <ibanezmatt13> Yes mfa298_, that was my issue
[22:36] <ibanezmatt13> I had a little look at matrices actually out of interest. Multiplying matrices. It looked like the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, ever
[22:36] <ibanezmatt13> To be fair, it was Wikepedia
[22:38] <mfa298_> that'swhy we have things like matlab, makes doing that sort of thing much easier.
[22:38] <ibanezmatt13> does it do it for you?
[22:38] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: wikipedia makes all maths hideously complicated
[22:39] <Randomskk> and for further maths you'll have to know how to multiply out small matricies
[22:39] <ibanezmatt13> it does
[22:39] <Randomskk> but i promise you it's really easy to do and incredibly useful
[22:39] <mfa298_> I think matricies are also when I really got Object Orientated Programming (my 3rd year project had an element of manipulating matricies in it)
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[22:40] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, I'll wait and see what it's like at college
[22:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'm making a Biryani tommorrow and I'm quite looking forward to it
[22:42] <Randomskk> cool
[22:42] <Randomskk> cooking is so great
[22:42] <ibanezmatt13> It is, especially when you cook interesting, cultural dishes
[22:42] <ibanezmatt13> Saying that, I learned only last week how to make scrambled egg :P
[22:43] <fsphil> mmmm
[22:43] <ibanezmatt13> D'you know fsphil, I've never eaten rabbit. Never really fancied it
[22:43] <WillTablet> I have
[22:43] <WillTablet> It's lovely.
[22:43] <fsphil> nor me
[22:44] <ibanezmatt13> I've had wild boar
[22:44] <Randomskk> scrambled egg can be so good
[22:44] <Randomskk> and yea, exciting dishes are the best
[22:44] <Randomskk> I <3 my wok
[22:44] <ibanezmatt13> haha, me too. Stir fry's ftw!
[22:44] <mfa298_> I've not had rabbit, but pheasant isn't bad and partridge is nice (part from picking the lead shot out of your teeth)
[22:44] <WillTablet> A book I'm reading talks about topology.
[22:45] <WillTablet> I don't get it though.
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> Never been into eating those sorts of birds mfa298_
[22:45] <WillTablet> You need 3d diagrams really.
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> they are birds right? :/
[22:45] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 when you getting your gcse results?
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> Thursday
[22:45] <WillTablet> Gl
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> I could be working in McDonald's by Friday :/
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[22:45] <WillTablet> What A-Levels are you doing?
[22:46] <mfa298_> they're game birds, my parents used to know someone that went out shooting.
[22:46] <ibanezmatt13> Maths, Physics, Computing and god help me... further maths
[22:46] <WillTablet> Sounds good.
[22:46] <ibanezmatt13> cool mfa298_. I've never operated a gun.
[22:46] <WillTablet> Not tempted by electronics?
[22:46] <WillTablet> I have
[22:46] <ibanezmatt13> well, a water gun but that's it
[22:46] <WillTablet> Albeit an air rifle.
[22:46] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: They don't do it here
[22:46] <WillTablet> Ok
[22:47] <WillTablet> Shot a few pigeons.
[22:47] <WillTablet> (Technically illegal )
[22:47] <ibanezmatt13> My Granddad shot a pigeon and little did he know if fell down the chimney. Walked into the dining room a few days later, you could have sworn the world had ran out of spiders
[22:47] <WillTablet> Haha
[22:48] <mfa298_> I did clay pigeon shooting once with a shotgun, from what I remember my shoulder complained the day after
[22:48] <WillTablet> I've shot a few, my dad has probably shot at least 30
[22:48] <ibanezmatt13> too powerful for my joints
[22:48] <ibanezmatt13> He shouted at me today... I took his petrol lawnmower apart
[22:48] <WillTablet> I actually hurt my eye just yesterday with an air rifle.
[22:49] <ibanezmatt13> I wanted to build some sort of petrol go cart so I tried to salvage the lawnmower engine...
[22:49] <ibanezmatt13> bad idea
[22:49] <WillTablet> Without asking?
[22:49] <WillTablet> Is he still mad at you?
[22:49] <ibanezmatt13> He wasn't in
[22:49] <ibanezmatt13> Nah not reall
[22:49] <ibanezmatt13> y
[22:50] <ibanezmatt13> I put it back together again :)
[22:50] <WillTablet> I was trying to shoot a pigeon, I had the scope on my eye, I fired it and it rebound into my eye.
[22:50] <WillTablet> It hurt.
[22:50] <ibanezmatt13> I can imagine
[22:50] <WillTablet> (Obviously under adult supervision.
[22:50] <ibanezmatt13> I should think so...
[22:50] <WillTablet> (Even though it's illegal both ways)
[22:51] <WillTablet> It's legal to shoot them.
[22:51] <ibanezmatt13> Well, driving under the age of 6 is illegal but what the heck, I did it
[22:51] <WillTablet> Just not if you're a minor.
[22:51] <WillTablet> Why?
[22:51] <WillTablet> How?
[22:51] <WillTablet> Where?
[22:51] <Randomskk> do you mean 16? :P
[22:51] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad let me operate the steering wheel through the zoo when I was 6. He did the pedals
[22:52] <ibanezmatt13> Chester zoo :)
[22:52] <Randomskk> haha nice
[22:52] <WillTablet> How do you have a negative voltage?
[22:52] <Randomskk> in what context?
[22:52] <WillTablet> Oh I've driven before.
[22:52] <ibanezmatt13> Funny thing is, I remember deliberately trying to crash because I wanted to see his face when I did :)
[22:53] <WillTablet> My cousin and I did it on a private road.
[22:53] <Randomskk> so for instance if you take a normal battery and call the - side +, then you have a negative voltage over it
[22:53] <ibanezmatt13> Wow I was stupid back then
[22:53] <WillTablet> *our private road
[22:53] <Randomskk> if you have two batteries and connect one + to the other -, then call that middle bit the ground 0V, you'll get + and - voltage on either side
[22:53] <Randomskk> which is commonly useful
[22:53] <ibanezmatt13> Haven't they made that illegal now? Driving underage even on private land?
[22:54] <WillTablet> It's not even our private land but we have right of way.
[22:54] <WillTablet> The lines are electrified with a four-rail DC system: a conductor rail between the rails is energised at 210 V and a rail outside the running rails at +420 V, giving a potential difference of 630 V.
[22:54] <WillTablet> Randomskk ^
[22:54] <Randomskk> I see
[22:54] <Randomskk> well I don't know why you'd do that
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[22:55] <Randomskk> but presumably that means the -210V is -210V with respect to the ground
[22:55] <Randomskk> and the +420V is 420V above ground
[22:55] <Randomskk> if you called the -ve rail 0V, the +ve rail would be 630V and the ground would be at 210V
[22:55] <Randomskk> it's all relative, is what I mean. just depends on what you call 0.
[22:55] <Randomskk> (voltage is only ever measured between two things, so it's always relative)
[22:56] <ibanezmatt13> See Randomskk this is what I mean, that last line has just made voltage make so much more sense to me
[22:56] <ibanezmatt13> Explain it in the right way and, click
[22:56] <Randomskk> yea, getting something explained in a way you can totally understand is so important
[22:57] <Randomskk> otherwise you'll just hit your head against things for ages
[22:57] <ibanezmatt13> which is exactly what GCSE does the opposite of
[22:57] <Randomskk> best if you can figure out how to translate what someone is trying to teach you into something you can understand
[22:57] <Randomskk> but, you choose your battles
[22:57] <ibanezmatt13> that's my problem right there
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[22:58] <Randomskk> it gets easier :P
[22:58] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Again, when you explained step up regulators to me the other morning, I understood it far better than anywhere else. I even saved it on github :)
[22:59] <Randomskk> glad to hear it!
[22:59] <Randomskk> especially as if things work out I will be explaining fundemental electronics to first year students in a few months >_>
[22:59] <ibanezmatt13> cool, where at?
[23:00] <Randomskk> at uni - PhD starts soon, and I'll probably supervise (tutor) a bit
[23:00] <ibanezmatt13> You a Cambridge student? :/
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[23:00] <Randomskk> I was
[23:00] <Randomskk> then I graduated
[23:00] <Randomskk> in july :P
[23:00] <ibanezmatt13> I wish
[23:00] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[23:00] <Randomskk> but yea, soon I will be again. just in a full time capacity
[23:01] <ibanezmatt13> You did further maths?
[23:01] <Randomskk> oh yea.
[23:01] <ibanezmatt13> may I ask what grades you got?
[23:01] <Randomskk> and it was variously very difficult and a bit of fun
[23:01] <Randomskk> AAAA in maths, further maths, physics and DT systems&control
[23:02] <Randomskk> we didn't have A*s in my day
[23:02] <Randomskk> but then I only got the A in FM by 2 UMS
[23:02] <Randomskk> out of what, 600
[23:02] <Randomskk> so I was a long way from an A* anyway :P
[23:02] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[23:02] <Randomskk> (which was great as my cambridge offer required an A in further maths)
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: what you working on for PhD?
[23:02] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: wish I knew
[23:02] <Randomskk> signal processing
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> oh heh
[23:02] <Randomskk> my original project was bayesian inference for radio signal demod
[23:03] <Randomskk> but my original supervisor is ill and cannot supervise any more
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> make sure they dont assign you to something naff
[23:03] <Randomskk> so I have a scholarship for full funding, and a place
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> if you are leaving it to them to organise
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> cool
[23:03] <Randomskk> nah it's kinda on me
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> ah i see
[23:03] <Randomskk> I need to contact people and decide what I wanna do
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> thats a good arrangement
[23:03] <Randomskk> since I'm all paid for
[23:03] <Randomskk> yea it does seem like it
[23:03] <Randomskk> would be easier if I really knew what I wanted to do for it
[23:04] Action: Laurenceb_ should be submitting soon...
[23:04] <Randomskk> :o
[23:04] <Randomskk> so starting to think about writing up then?
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> written up about 80% so far
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> couple of weeks
[23:06] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Had you had any work experience before you got to Cambridge? I've heard someone with decent grades and work experience is the better candidate than someone with amazing grades and no work experience...
[23:06] <Randomskk> hmm yea I guess
[23:06] <Randomskk> well I mean
[23:06] <Randomskk> I had a week's stupid work experience in year... well year 4 for me, which is like after year 10
[23:06] <Randomskk> that was pointless
[23:06] <Randomskk> but then I did a nuffield bursary before L6
[23:07] <Randomskk> and again a bit before U6
[23:07] <Randomskk> whcih was quite good
[23:07] <Randomskk> (working at a local university on a research project)
[23:07] <Randomskk> but like, building a working HAB would look so great at interview
[23:07] <Randomskk> anything interesting like that
[23:07] <ibanezmatt13> what are interviews like? Can you take things like HAB trackers to show them what you do or is that a bit over the top?
[23:08] <Randomskk> (grades still matter! but only so far as you have the required good grades really. after that it's all you)
[23:08] <Randomskk> uhm you can totally do that
[23:08] <Randomskk> I did
[23:08] <Randomskk> I was the only person I know to do so though?
[23:08] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[23:08] <Randomskk> but then I was the only person I knew with such a cool A level project
[23:08] <ibanezmatt13> was HAB your project?
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[23:09] <Randomskk> not even
[23:09] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/sets/72157607851550306/
[23:09] <Randomskk> little robot
[23:09] <Randomskk> camera, silly ARM processor, basic computer vision
[23:09] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[23:09] <Randomskk> that was a lot of fun though also hugely frustrating to get working
[23:10] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/3088363676/in/set-72157607851550306
[23:10] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to think of a big project I could do like that but involving HAB
[23:10] <Randomskk> yea that'd be cool
[23:10] <Randomskk> you knwo what would totally rock, a return to base parachute thing
[23:10] <Randomskk> :P
[23:10] <ibanezmatt13> Exactly what I was thinking
[23:11] <fsphil> worth many HAB points, which is more important than qualifications of course
[23:11] <Randomskk> sooo many hab points
[23:11] <ibanezmatt13> A glider with a load of kit inside that had auto detachment from the balloon at a certain height. Then using some maths it calculated what it needed to do to get to a position based on its current position
[23:11] <Randomskk> I think ed actually has a little competition running for it
[23:11] <Randomskk> it's so hard though
[23:11] <ibanezmatt13> LMT2 transmitter/receiver so we could send it new destination coordinates as it flies
[23:11] <arko> woah
[23:11] <Randomskk> and really hard to test
[23:11] <arko> nice work!
[23:12] <ibanezmatt13> Nah, perfectly doable. Much easier than FM
[23:12] <Randomskk> haha
[23:12] <Randomskk> FM is fine :P
[23:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have it up and running by next summer
[23:12] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[23:12] <Randomskk> go for it!
[23:12] <arko> no stereo vision?
[23:12] <Randomskk> shame you can't do it as a school project
[23:12] <Randomskk> arko: haha
[23:12] <Randomskk> just reading from that camera
[23:13] <ibanezmatt13> I know
[23:13] <arko> it'd be nice and slow :)
[23:13] <Randomskk> 8 bit data, parallel, 24MHz was its _lowest_ clock speed possible
[23:13] <Randomskk> 72MHz ARM
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[23:13] <Randomskk> and not enough RAM to hold even one frame of 96x64 lines or whatever it was
[23:13] <arko> aw
[23:13] <arko> upgrade the arm
[23:13] <Randomskk> I had a super tight assembler loop to read in one line of image data, do the analysis before the hsync, then repeat
[23:13] <arko> heh
[23:14] <Randomskk> it was the most capable ARM I could source at the time :(
[23:14] <ibanezmatt13> arko, bit random but are you the rocket scientist?
[23:14] <Randomskk> I was like 16 dude >_>
[23:14] <arko> ibanezmatt13: no sir
[23:14] <Randomskk> it was an STM32F103, before they even became popular :P
[23:14] <WillTablet> Randomskk that example was from the londn underground wiki page
[23:14] <arko> Randomskk: seriously?
[23:14] <Randomskk> my github repo for the skeleton code got cloned a whole bunch. no one had any info on how to use them back then
[23:14] <arko> thats impressive for 16
[23:14] <ibanezmatt13> But you work for NASA right?
[23:14] <Randomskk> WillTablet: which example sorry?
[23:14] <arko> v
[23:14] <fsphil> I've bumped into your code a few times when googling about image sensors Randomskk
[23:14] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 seen LOHAN?
[23:14] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[23:14] <arko> ibanezmatt13: yes, software dev
[23:15] <Randomskk> fsphil: hehe
[23:15] <arko> not for robots and rockets unfortunatly
[23:15] <ibanezmatt13> wow, space shuttle software dev. Nice!
[23:15] <WillTablet> Randomskk the tube
[23:15] <Randomskk> I really need to write more blog posts
[23:15] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[23:15] <arko> ibanezmatt13: no no
[23:15] <WillTablet> The negative voltage one
[23:15] <WillTablet> Was about the tube
[23:15] <Randomskk> WillTablet: oh, right
[23:15] <arko> i work on systems for tracking and analyzing environmental tests of electronic parts
[23:15] <Randomskk> didn't realise the london underground had an electric fence?
[23:15] <arko> more stuff than that
[23:15] <ibanezmatt13> still cool :)
[23:15] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 so is what you want to do basically LOHAN
[23:15] <arko> but thats the most popular stuff
[23:16] <ibanezmatt13> no, much different
[23:16] <WillTablet> Pretty sure that's illegal here
[23:16] <fsphil> a guided chute is a bit of a grey area
[23:16] <ibanezmatt13> I want solid rocket boosters!
[23:16] <ibanezmatt13> big ones
[23:16] <ibanezmatt13> I want NORB to live up to its name!
[23:16] <ibanezmatt13> IORR
[23:17] <ibanezmatt13> Into orbit research rocket!
[23:17] <ibanezmatt13> Controlled launch, I want it to dock with the ISS and return and land in the sea with 3 parachutes!
[23:17] <ibanezmatt13> But I'll start with a Pico
[23:17] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[23:17] <fsphil> only the ISS?
[23:17] <fsphil> dude, MARS
[23:17] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 so you want to fly an autonomous glider on a hab
[23:18] <ibanezmatt13> That's my next project fsphil
[23:18] <WillTablet> Well release it from one.
[23:18] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: ^^
[23:18] <fsphil> I'd love to do a HAB on Titan
[23:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'm serious about rockets
[23:18] <WillTablet> ^^?
[23:18] <ibanezmatt13> We should for a UKHAS rocket sub organisation
[23:18] <ibanezmatt13> form*
[23:19] <WillTablet> How is it different from LOHAN?
[23:19] <ibanezmatt13> Well, it's as big as the space shuttle for one
[23:19] <ibanezmatt13> It actually goes into space
[23:19] <ibanezmatt13> And is uber-cool
[23:20] <WillTablet> Except amateurs can't fly rockets or uavs without
[23:20] <WillTablet> Actually
[23:20] <WillTablet> You can't fly them full stop
[23:20] <ibanezmatt13> You shoot pigeons... I'm sure they won't mind
[23:20] <WillTablet> Well, out of sight.
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[23:20] <WillTablet> Yeah they will
[23:20] <ibanezmatt13> we'll see :)
[23:21] <WillTablet> What is the law on gliders anyway? How do private space companies get away with it?
[23:21] <ibanezmatt13> no idea but seriously, a rocket with NORB on the side :D
[23:22] <ibanezmatt13> right I'm off to bed, otherwise I'll be thinking of rockets all night
[23:22] <ibanezmatt13> Night all :)
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[23:24] <wrea> WillTablet: Private companies get the appropriate clearances
[23:24] <WillTablet> In fact.
[23:24] <WillTablet> It looks as if it is allowrd
[23:25] <mfa298_> If you've got the time, money, and ability to write lots of suitable documentation (risk assessments etc) a lot of things are possible.
[23:25] <wrea> I think here in the US you go through a USAF division for clearance
[23:26] <WillTablet> Wait
[23:26] <WillTablet> Wow
[23:26] <mfa298_> or you find somewhere you can do what you want to do (hence the LOHAN Rocket launch being done in spain)
[23:26] <WillTablet> We are allowed to drop animals from habs.
[23:27] <WillTablet> So long as they don't put humans in danger.
[23:27] <WillTablet> Parachuting hamster ftw.
[23:27] <mfa298_> based on what laws ?
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[23:29] <mfa298_> I imagine there are some laws saying you cannot put animals at risk
[23:29] <WillTablet> ANO
[23:29] <WillTablet> Can't drop any item or animal that puts property or humans at risk
[23:29] <WillTablet> So where does it prohibit unmanned gliders?
[23:31] <mfa298_> I think there's some stuff about things that has some form of controlled flight not being allowed unless strict things are in place
[23:32] <mfa298_> and a glider *could* be seen to be a forms of controlled flight
[23:32] <mfa298_> you probably have to spend several days reading a lot of bits of the law to find all the relevant references.
[23:34] <WillTablet> Hmm. I think I could beat ted bull by having a parachuting hamster with spacesuit that has a tracker embedded.
[23:34] <WillTablet> I really hope that's legal.
[23:34] <mfa298_> as in a live hampster?
[23:35] <WillTablet> Yeah
[23:35] <WillTablet> Why not?
[23:35] <mfa298_> I suspect you'll have the rspca after you fairly quickly unless you can prove that you knew it would not cause harm before doing the launch
[23:35] <WillTablet> Hmm
[23:36] <WillTablet> A parachuting cat would be cooler.
[23:36] <WillTablet> Too heavy though.
[23:36] <WillTablet> Ping someone knowledgeable about law regarding hamsters.
[23:38] <Randomskk> haha that's definitely how pinging works
[23:39] <mfa298_> google is generally your friend for such things
[23:39] <Randomskk> pretty sure sending one into the atmosphere would count as animal cruelty and I think hampsters count. can you imagine the press you'd get. it wouldn't be good press.
[23:39] <mfa298_> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/offences_involving_domestic_and_captive_animals/#a03
[23:39] <mfa298_> as a start: Under section 4(1) of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, it is a summary offence to cause unnecessary suffering to a protected animal or if being responsible for a protected animal to permit any unnecessary suffering to be caused to any such animal (Stones 8-1571).
[23:40] <WillTablet> That suckd
[23:40] <WillTablet> Sucks
[23:41] <WillTablet> It'd be so cool though.
[23:41] <mfa298_> If you could show that before the flight you had ensured that the hampster wouldn't suffer then you might get around that bit of law (but there might be other laws as well).
[23:41] <WillTablet> It'd hamster btw
[23:42] <mfa298_> but doing that will be a lot of paper work, experimentation and research
[23:42] <WillTablet> Hmm
[23:42] <WillTablet> Temperature controlled suit maybe.
[23:43] <mfa298_> With a cat, you need to strap a piece of buttered toast to it's back. That could make tracking it easier and might solve the tree problem
[23:43] <WillTablet> Oh, is zeusbot dead?
[23:44] <wrea> lol
[23:44] <WillTablet> Erm.
[23:45] Action: mfa298_ realises most of the people that would reference of cat+buttered toast have probable gone to bed
[23:45] <WillTablet> How do I do a multiple word search with zeusbot?
[23:45] <mfa298_> go to google and type in your query
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[23:50] <WillTablet> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0HrHErM6TI
[23:51] <WillTablet> Oh god
[23:51] <wrea> haha
[23:52] <WillTablet> Wrea did you see the colbert report thing on him?
[23:52] <WillTablet> Or was it the daily show
[23:52] <wrea> If it was recently, then yeah
[23:53] <WillTablet> I'm gonna need some professional help and advice, anyone in?
[23:54] <WillTablet> Upu, you aren't familiar with the law regarding parachuting hamsters are you?
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> they need to be properly qualified hamsters.
[23:59] <WillTablet> Oxygen might be a problem
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> food intake is proportional
[00:00] --- Wed Aug 21 2013