[00:00] <fsphil> what's the limit?
[00:02] <craag> 100mm
[00:02] <craag> 100mm x 80mm to be exact, but this is a long and thin board.
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[00:13] <craag> I thought I'd checked this.. turns out it's actually limiting me to 80mm vertical, and won't let me rotate it round :/
[00:15] <Randomskk> craag: sounds like a good excuse to use kicad
[00:15] <Randomskk> no limits at all
[00:15] <Randomskk> 32 layers 1m a side? go for it
[00:15] <Randomskk> :P
[00:16] <craag> Yeah... also means I can use linux for it! Eagle doesn't seem to like my 2d graphics..
[00:18] <craag> I think I might be able to borrow a licensed eagle copy just to stretch the board and get the gerbers done.
[00:18] <craag> arggh but they have eagle 5 with different file format :|
[00:18] <craag> time for bed me thinks, gn!
[00:24] <Randomskk> ugh, that's annoying. kicad :P
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[06:57] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[07:00] <jcoxon> morning ibanezmatt13
[07:00] <ibanezmatt13> all set for the conf jcoxon?
[07:03] <jcoxon> oh gosh no
[07:04] <jcoxon> got to write a talk
[07:04] <jcoxon> but Upu has fixed most of the logistics parts
[07:04] <jcoxon> (he is far better at that then me)
[07:04] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, you all set for your launch?
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[07:05] <ibanezmatt13> I think so. I'm running a test today on the antenna I made by taking it up a hill a few miles from my house. All the code is done, box is done. Just need some good weather next Saturday :)
[07:07] <jcoxon> thats always a good idea
[07:09] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: do you want me to have a listen?
[07:09] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir: yes, that would be great :) I'll let you know when we go up
[07:10] <mikestir> ok but I might not be around this morning
[07:10] <ibanezmatt13> Would sometime this afternoon be ok?
[07:10] <mikestir> are you going up winter hill? i'll go up in the loft and point the yagi in readiness
[07:10] <mikestir> yes
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> we could do, but there is a hill closer to me from which I can see the Runcorn bridge, the Welsh mountains etc...
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> That might be ok
[07:11] <mikestir> billinge hill?
[07:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah :)
[07:11] <mikestir> ok
[07:11] <mikestir> I'm quite close to the river so I don't suppose there will be any obstacles
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> Nah, should be fine
[07:12] <ibanezmatt13> How should I contact you when we are up there?
[07:13] <mikestir> are you not going to be in here?
[07:13] <mikestir> I could pm you my mobile number if not
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> well I will be on here but when I leave the house I can no longer have internet
[07:13] <ibanezmatt13> the 3g here is appauling
[07:14] <mikestir> should be ok up the hill - there's a DAB transmitter up there so I'm sure there's 3g
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> can I get a good client up there for the iphone?
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> well not up there :)
[07:14] <ibanezmatt13> an IRC client for the iphone
[07:15] <mikestir> don't know about iphone. there's several for android that seem ok
[07:15] <mikestir> I'm sure there will be something
[07:15] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll try and sort something out this morning. The test will probably be about 1 or 2 o clock if that's ok?
[07:16] <mikestir> yeah that will definitely be ok
[07:16] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fs0wm6fpn0kh9e8/Video%2017-08-2013%2019%2034%2011.mov
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[07:17] <ibanezmatt13> shocking quality
[07:18] <mikestir> hardware looking good though :
[07:18] <mikestir> :)
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[07:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah :)
[07:19] <mikestir> 16 miles to billinge hill
[07:19] <mikestir> I'd like to think that would work
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[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> as would I, but I never got more than a 400 yards away before I lost it
[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> mind you, that was without a TX antenna
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[07:20] <ibanezmatt13> billinge hill is 179m up
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> nearly 600ft
[07:21] <mikestir> are you going to the top?
[07:21] <mikestir> i notice the road goes quite close
[07:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, we're parking on the side of the road and walking right to the top
[07:22] <ibanezmatt13> if a tree or so isn't an issue, the road is fine
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[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> off for breakfast. mikestir I'll message you later :)
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[09:31] <S_Mark> anyone got any real 'for's and 'againsts'
[09:31] <S_Mark> of tinyGPS
[09:32] <x-f> works for me (tm) :)
[09:33] <S_Mark> hi x-f, are you the author of the tinyGPS_UBX?
[09:33] <x-f> yes
[09:34] <x-f> i would consider me as an author, i just modified the original version
[09:34] <S_Mark> what lead you to do that, what were the shortcoming so of the standard one?
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[09:35] <x-f> i wanted to poll the GPS, not wanted all those NMEA sentences
[09:36] <S_Mark> ah ok
[09:36] <x-f> it was just my way of doing it
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[09:37] <x-f> i meant there "i wouldn't consider myself as an author" :]
[09:37] <S_Mark> lol
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[09:37] <S_Mark> you have the has_fix
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[10:21] <Bo|2> Upu: are yo the man that makes the habamps?
[10:21] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK_Working
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[10:28] <Bo|2> Stupid Raspi
[10:28] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK_Working
[10:28] <Bo_DK_Working> Upu... did you get my msg?
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[10:34] <Bo_DK_Working> UpuWork quick q if ok?
[10:39] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: Can I help?
[10:39] <Bo_DK_Working> yes... just looking for the guy who makes the habamps
[10:39] <Bo_DK_Working> or a link to same
[10:40] <craag> Yep that's anthony
[10:40] <craag> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=83
[10:40] <craag> ^^ availible from his shop
[10:40] <Bo_DK_Working> :-)
[10:40] <Bo_DK_Working> dad asked for a wishlist for my birthday... might as well add it
[10:42] <craag> I need to get a new LNA for mine at some point - left it connected when I switched to the 2m net and put 50W into it :/
[10:42] <mfa298> if you're using the rtl-sdr dongles then the habamp is well worth it
[10:42] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: so i was told
[10:42] <Bo_DK_Working> if not getting it for b-day i will just save wish list and get it myself
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[10:43] <Bo_DK_Working> just to learn a new term... what is LNA? the dongle?
[10:44] <craag> Low-Noise-Amplifier - it's the chip at the heart of the habamp
[10:44] <Bo_DK_Working> ohhh
[10:45] <craag> The habamp uses an LNA to boost the signal, then a SAW (crystal) filter to filter out anything but the 434MHz ISM band.
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[10:45] <Bo_DK_Working> Yep.. now i just need to get an Realtek based dongle
[10:46] <Bo_DK_Working> cosycove is one place
[10:46] <mfa298> cosycave or ebay, depending on if you want it cheaply or quickly
[10:47] <Bo_DK_Working> cheap...best if free *lol*
[10:47] <mfa298> ebay tends to be shipped from china so cheaper but take a few weeks to arrive.
[10:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There are still e4000 based ones around on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.Xrtl2832u+e4000&_nkw=rtl2832u+e4000&_sacat=0&_from=R40
[10:47] <Upu> hey Bo_DK_Working UpuWork isn't at work as its Sunday :)
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> That 6632B is better than the scope Upu
[10:48] <Bo_DK_Working> Upu.... hehe.... days are same for me... on goverment benefit... but sick with depression (mild) so waiting for a shrink in november
[10:48] <mfa298> I've found the R820T ones I've bought to be as good as the E4000 one I bought originally
[10:48] <Bo_DK_Working> so thats also why i have so much time
[10:49] <Bo_DK_Working> some daya re great.... others i could live without
[10:49] <Upu> better LeoBodnar ?
[10:50] <Bo_DK_Working> shipping from china only an issue if price goes above 80DKK
[10:50] <Bo_DK_Working> then import shit is added
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> It has RS232 output so I am sampling current at 0.1mA resolution/accuracy every 32msec and plotting beautiful charts over 30 min period. Average current and energy consumed, etc
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> Scope can't do that even with current probe
[10:51] <Bo_DK_Working> Upu i see the habamp is directly linked to dongle... or is it cable?
[10:51] <Upu> can be or an SMA joiner
[10:52] <Bo_DK_Working> does it matter mutch?
[10:52] <Bo_DK_Working> i guess it depends on the connector in habamp
[10:52] <Upu> note really
[10:52] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[10:53] <Upu> not
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> Great for low power work
[10:54] <mikestir> mfa298: I prefer the R820T based ones because it's low-IF rather than zero IF
[10:54] <mikestir> no IQ balance problems
[10:54] <mikestir> I fixed that segfault btw
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> £120 eBay, £1700 new and yes, it is linear, not switched
[10:55] <Upu> I'd get one if it wasn't so damn large
[10:56] <LeoBodnar> They are only cheap because they were typically used in production testing and some facilities used literally thousands of them and after closing down they all went onto surplus market.
[10:56] <mfa298> is the fix in git ?
[10:56] <mikestir> yes
[10:56] <mikestir> it was an uninitialised variable in the copy constructor
[10:56] <mfa298> I shall have a play
[10:56] <mikestir> it's faster, but still too slow!
[10:56] <mikestir> still more optimisations to go though
[10:56] <LeoBodnar> Yes, it's typical rack mount unit
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[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Oooh.
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-6632B-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-0-20VOLT-0-5-AMP-PROGRAMMABLE-/380697068447?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item58a350439f -
[10:58] Action: SpeedEvil wanty.
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[10:58] <LeoBodnar> wrong move SpeedEvil ! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-6632B-Bench-DC-Power-Supply-0-20VOLT-5-AMP-Programmable-/350838184127?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item51af95d8bf
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-6632B-Bench-DC-Power-Supply-0-20VOLT-5-AMP-Programmable-/350838184127?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item51af95d8bf
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> I got two from this guy and they are in top condition
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> Alas at this point, I really, really shouldn't be consdiering a 130 quid PSU
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> He has some other interesting stuff too
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-838596-pn-6632B/100-watt-system-power-supply-20v-5a?&cc=GB&lc=eng base price £1737
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> Why doesn't this happen to network analysers?
[11:03] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
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[11:12] <Bo_DK_Working> Q about yagi's... looking at made ones... what should i look after other than 0cm and 434 mhz?
[11:12] <mfa298> depends on what you're interested in.
[11:12] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm... thinking
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> 0cm?
[11:12] <Bo_DK_Working> of course to be abel to listen as far away
[11:12] <Bo_DK_Working> arrrrgh
[11:13] <Bo_DK_Working> 70cm
[11:13] <Bo_DK_Working> i have a bad 7 key
[11:13] <mfa298> more elements generally means more gain and it being more directional
[11:13] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: thanks... :-)
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> Over 30 elements can be hard to point.
[11:14] <Bo_DK_Working> will not point myself
[11:14] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[11:14] <Bo_DK_Working> my auto rig thing will
[11:14] <mfa298> some cheaper ones have a lower gain but higher bandwidth (so they'll work over a larger frequency range)
[11:14] <mfa298> as it's more directional you've got to be much more accurate at pointing it
[11:15] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe.... that part i know... ie from wifi etc
[11:15] <mfa298> also 70cm is 434Mhz (300/434==0.7)
[11:16] <mfa298> for most balloon payloads you probably don't need huge gain once you've got line of sight.
[11:17] <mfa298> although the directionality can help get rid of some of the local noise.
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> So can an axe.
[11:18] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: looking at what ebay has to offer
[11:19] <Bo_DK_Working> ie me is
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[11:27] <ibanezmatt13> ping mikestir
[11:27] <mikestir> hi matt
[11:27] <mikestir> I've just moved the yagi
[11:27] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Mike, cool. We're just about to head up there
[11:27] <mikestir> I did a prediction - there's a hill almost in the way, so it might be touch and go
[11:27] <mikestir> http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/billinge_10mW_-120dBm.jpg
[11:27] <mikestir> http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/billinge_ms_link.png
[11:28] <ibanezmatt13> wow that's close
[11:28] <ibanezmatt13> we'll get as high as we can
[11:28] <ibanezmatt13> one thing, my Dad's 3g device is very temperamental
[11:28] <ibanezmatt13> could you pm me a number just in case, probably won't need it
[11:29] <mikestir> sure
[11:29] <mikestir> what's the frequency? 434.150?
[11:29] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: not up to speed.... what are the pics?
[11:30] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: matt is going up a hill to test a tracker. the pics are a coverage prediction based on a digital height model
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[11:31] <Bo_DK_Working> nice... i guess that can be used to pick the best spot?
[11:33] <Bo_DK_Working> looking at an yagi... 70cm of course but its crossed.... ie an X for each element
[11:33] <Bo_DK_Working> would that have a benefit?
[11:34] <mfa298> unlikely to have any real benefit for hab
[11:34] <Bo_DK_Working> ok... just wondered...
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[11:47] <LeoBodnar> you want just vertical polarisation Bo_DK_Working
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[11:47] <Bo_DK_Working> yep... i just saw the antenna and wondered what it could be good for
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> UHF polarisation usually keeps well over the links
[11:47] <Bo_DK_Working> i guess its a mix of vertical and horizontal?
[11:47] <mikestir> satellite working
[11:48] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: ??
[11:48] <Bo_DK_Working> remote tracker?
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> They are RH circular usually
[11:48] <mfa298> with both sets of elements it could be circular polarised - which is often used for sats
[11:48] <mikestir> satellites are often spin stabilised so they use circular polarisation, so a crossed yagi or helix is better
[11:48] <mikestir> for hab the polarisation is stable
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[11:49] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D makes better sense to my 1st floor :-D
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> Is it an euphemism?
[11:49] <Bo_DK_Working> yep....
[11:50] <Bo_DK_Working> 1st floor = Brain
[11:50] <Bo_DK_Working> or the lack of same
[11:50] <Bo_DK_Working> most of it just empty vacum and dust
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> is it a tautology?
[11:50] <mikestir> lol
[11:50] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmmm
[11:51] <Bo_DK_Working> some times its more fact than anything
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[11:51] <LeoBodnar> "empty vacuum", not your brain
[11:51] <mikestir> does anyone know the frequency of ibanezmatt's tracker? he's gone off up that hill and neglected to mention it
[11:52] <x-f> he's using NTX2, so .075 or .650
[11:54] <mikestir> hmm looks like 075 from the irc logs
[11:54] <mfa298> I'd assume .650 as that's what was in his launch announcment
[11:54] <mikestir> ah
[11:54] <Bo_DK_Working> LeoBodnar: the space that is not taken up by brain is vacum/empty space/dust
[11:54] <mfa298> 300bd, 8n2, 450 shift
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[11:55] <x-f> sawdust
[11:55] <Bo_DK_Working> LeoBodnar: ratio just varry during the day etc...
[11:55] <Bo_DK_Working> x-f: saw dust in a bit in fact... about to trim some wood with handheld router
[11:56] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: possible to take in to account building etc?
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[11:57] <Willdude123> Hello
[11:57] <Bo_DK_Working> hi there
[11:57] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: he just texted me the freq and I can hear it so going to try to get a decode
[11:57] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: ok...
[11:57] <Bo_DK_Working> i just poked my mind about getting where buildings are from google etc and use that too
[11:58] <Bo_DK_Working> ie to tell where best spot would be in like X km radius
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[11:59] <mfa298> Bo_DK_Working: for finding locations for good radio I tend to just look at a reasonably detailed local map
[12:00] <mfa298> look for a decent hill that doesn't have too much around it and generally somewhere that's got reasonable access
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[12:04] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: ras pi q.... what distro do you use for HTPC?
[12:04] <mfa298> I've got a pi running rasbmc which seems to work reasonably well.
[12:04] <Bo_DK_Working> i came across an article that showed how to use it as airplay unit via raspbmc
[12:05] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: :-D
[12:05] <Bo_DK_Working> tried the airplay part?
[12:05] <Bo_DK_Working> have a big and ugly monitor in kitched... 32 inch
[12:05] <Bo_DK_Working> but hardly using it for video
[12:05] <mfa298> I just stream stuff over the network using nfs
[12:06] <Bo_DK_Working> so was thinking of a pi and speakers only
[12:06] <mfa298> I don't think the air play part would be of any use for me.
[12:06] <Bo_DK_Working> not an fanboy of apple... but have an ipod touch that could be used as a kind of remote
[12:06] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: raspbmc as well
[12:07] <mfa298> for video I also got the extra licenses for the pi
[12:07] <mikestir> got some decodes from matt. no green ones though. shame he can't run at 50 baud
[12:07] <Bo_DK_Working> got a few albums from apple and as i understand its DRM'ed... or is that video?
[12:07] <mfa298> mikestir: silly question, did you increase the recieve fileter bandwidth in dl-fldigi for 300 baud ?
[12:07] <mikestir> yes
[12:08] <mfa298> most of my music comes from CD/mp3/spotify and I've got plenty of cable around the place to move audio (and composite video) around.
[12:09] <mfa298> so I don't have much need for streaming music with a pi
[12:10] <mfa298> I like the phyical wiring as it means stuff is in sync - even two tv's on the same channel annoys me as they're usually slightly out of sync.
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[12:24] <Astrobiologist> So that 817 on eBay went for £370... why do rigs hold their value so much? why don't they depreciate so much like normal consumer electronics?
[12:24] <mattbrejza> because they dont fall apart
[12:24] <mattbrejza> and they dont become outdated
[12:26] <Astrobiologist> So how high should one bid as a % of the brand-new price?
[12:26] <craag> 817 is quite old tech now (look at smartphones in 2001..), but it still works.
[12:27] <craag> Depends on condition, mint condition can be 90%.
[12:27] <craag> Scratched and battered, a lot less.
[12:28] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbsAFK
[12:30] <Astrobiologist> I am bidding on a TH-F7E, somewhat scratched. Is that a popular handheld? The 817 picked up a lot of bids but I'm the only one on the F7E
[12:31] <craag> I believe mfa298 has one of those?
[12:31] <Astrobiologist> Yes, he talked me through it a lot, I'm very grateful
[12:31] <craag> 817 is a popular little thing. I've been considering getting one just for normal ham stuff
[12:31] <Astrobiologist> It's probably the best compromise of cost, portability and sensitivity for me
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[12:33] <Astrobiologist> Currently £80 on eBay but £230 new. Not sure I'll be able to monitor the bid online tomorrow so I was just wondering where to leave the maximum bid
[12:34] <Astrobiologist> If other people want to go crazy in the last 10 mins of the bid it's up to them
[12:34] <mfa298> a lot of comercial amateur rigs don't get updated that often (could be 10 years or more for some of the bigger radios)
[12:34] <Astrobiologist> I just don't want to overpay
[12:35] <mfa298> even though the 817/817nd is a fairly old rig now there's not really anything comparable on the market so people still like it.
[12:35] <mfa298> amateur radio people tend to look after their radios as well.
[12:37] <mfa298> the ebay completed listings option is often useful to see what the going rate tends to be.
[12:38] <mikestir> I was thinking of picking up an ssb-capable scanner. maybe the ic-r20
[12:38] <mikestir> that looks like a nice rx
[12:40] <Astrobiologist> For a scratched handheld, what do you reckon then, 50% of new?
[12:40] <mfa298> that's probably reasonable.
[12:41] <mfa298> probably depends on how scratched
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[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> ping mikestir
[12:41] <mikestir> hi
[12:41] <ibanezmatt13> hey :)
[12:42] <mikestir> i'm just making some lunch. here's a link to that screenshot: http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/norb_rx2.png
[12:42] <Willdude123> I'm thinking I might unplug the NTX2 while I'm testing the ublox
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, thanks mikestir
[12:42] <mikestir> there's another one on norb_rx1.png but 2 is the better decodes
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> wow mikestir I'm pleased with that!
[12:42] <mikestir> there are two lines that must have been within a character of being green
[12:43] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thank you very much for the help. Looks like we're go for launch :)
[12:43] <mikestir> brb
[12:43] <ibanezmatt13> sure
[12:46] <Willdude123> Just might make things easier. Then I think
[12:46] <Willdude123> I will start PCB desig
[12:46] <Willdude123> n
[12:47] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, can you link me again to the tutorial?
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> sure
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXwjZoyNno
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[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> then watch part 2, but only when you're sure about schematics and you've had a go yourself :)
[12:49] <Upu> ping gra
[12:49] <Upu> fail
[12:49] <Upu> craag
[12:51] <Willdude123> Afternoon Upu
[12:51] <Upu> hi Will
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> hey Upu http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/norb_rx2.png. Went onto billinge hill and mikestir picked it up! :)
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> no green decodes but close
[12:51] <craag> pong Upu
[12:51] <Upu> should have said
[12:51] <Upu> I'd have had a listen out
[12:51] <Upu> PM craag
[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> But you're the other side of Winter Hill Upu aren't you? I'd have thought the line of sight wouldn't have been good enough
[12:52] <Willdude123> I know this is a silly question, but if I shield the BBB with foil, how do I ground the foil?
[12:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: connect it to the gound pin on the BBB - just becareful not to short anything
[12:54] <Willdude123> Mhm
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[13:02] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, How do I add the board files to eagle (from github) ?
[13:03] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: so I think that worked pretty well. That flight that came down in south cheshire the other week I only got down to about 400m, and that was 50 baud
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[13:04] <mikestir> although it was quite a bit further away
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[13:05] <Willdude123> Are there any PCB manufacturers without a minimum order?
[13:06] <mfa298> minimum order in terms of number of boards or price ?
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Hackvana is such good value, you might as well get the minimum quantity. You can get 10 for the price of 5 at the minute
[13:06] <Willdude123> Did you order a blinky board?
[13:07] <Willdude123> Board
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> No, I made my own :)
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> tracker that is
[13:07] <Willdude123> I mean did you order the Blinky Board Board?
[13:07] <Willdude123> I don't really want to be left with 10 or so boards
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> no, I just watched how eagle worked. but if you watch how he does the blinky board and experiment with eagle, I can help you make a tracker
[13:08] <zyp> oshpark has a minimum of three
[13:09] <zyp> (but three from oshpark will probably end up more expensive than ten from hackvana)
[13:09] <mfa298> there's a few places that might do fewer boards, but you might have a higher cost per board, or a setup fee
[13:10] <mfa298> If it's just a board for a NTX2 and ublox breakout board to go on the BBB you're probably better off with stripboard/veroboard
[13:10] <craag> Put your contact details on them and you can hand out spare ones as business cards :)
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> or use them as coasters for you coffee :)
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> your*
[13:11] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: the shift on your tracker was quite a bit wider than you said
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what it was really. I guessed, 450 works ok at home. What was it?
[13:12] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Did you design it along with the tutorial or just watch?
[13:12] <mikestir> I made it more like 590
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: just watched
[13:12] <mikestir> you can see in the screenshot
[13:12] <Willdude123> ok
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, wonder why that is... Hope it's ok next Saturday
[13:13] <mikestir> well the shift is easy to correct for, so it's not a big deal I suppose
[13:13] <mikestir> the only other thing I noticed was that on one occasion when you were walking I thought the mod disappeared
[13:13] <mikestir> there just seemed to be a dead carrier
[13:13] <mikestir> it was very weak at that point though
[13:13] <mikestir> you might want to do a little soak test
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> well, we started walking down the hill and ended up behind trees. Don't forget that hill on your prediction too
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> soak test?
[13:14] <mikestir> yeah just run it for a while and check it's not rebooting or something
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'm running it now, looks like it's working fine. Dont think it's rebooted
[13:15] <mikestir> ok. it was very hard to hear, but it sounded like it was just stuck on the high tone for a lot longer than the gap between sentences
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> perhaps while we were walking it lost GPS lock?
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> I remember having to stop for a minute or so to get a lock.
[13:15] <mikestir> maybe then
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'm happy to test it again but I'm not sure where to go :)
[13:16] <mikestir> it faded into the noise and there was data when it came back
[13:16] <mikestir> well you can test that locally anyway - the range seems to be exactly as expected
[13:17] <mikestir> when are you launching? saturday?
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> that's good. I'm offline in dl at the minute but I'm getting green decodes. However, it occasionally seems to struggle for lock, though it is inside now
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> yes saturday :/
[13:17] <mikestir> I'll listen out
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks! :)
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'm running a backup tracker at 50 baud too mikestir so if all else fails, that should be decodable
[13:18] <mikestir> are you running ssdv on the fast one?
[13:20] <mikestir> or just what you were sending today?
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> well
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> I had ssdv working great but we want full video of the flight
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> only one camera
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir: in fact, I kinda fancy ssdv. I know how to do it but I'm just thinking about the video...
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'd have to video in between taking the photo for ssdv
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> ping daveake
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to think of a way I could stop recording video, take a picture, then start again and loop
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[13:25] <mikestir> hmmm. you could patch the video recorder program to write a jpeg to a file in a signal handler
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> not sure what you mean
[13:25] <mikestir> well I assume the picam uses V4L2 like any other linux video device
[13:26] <mikestir> that works by streaming buffers of raw video between the kernel and the program
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> Never heard of that. All I know is it records in H264 formatr
[13:26] <mikestir> well unless the pi does it all completely in hardware, at some point in the chain there should be raw image buffers that you could divert through a jpeg encoder on demand
[13:27] <craag> I think it's completely in hardware.
[13:27] <mfa298> I'm not sure that the picam is using V4L2 - although I've not dont much playing with it yet
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[13:28] <craag> It uses V4L2 I believe, but just gives it a H.264 source
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds like a lot of work 5 days before launch though :/ Seen as I'm more bothered about video, I could record a 4 minute video, take a picture, record another 4 minute video etc... It takes ages for the packets to send anyway
[13:28] <mikestir> it's a shame if it's not. I've written a similar stack for another soc and there's no reason not to
[13:28] <craag> ibanezmatt13: That's what dave did I think.
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> which?
[13:28] <mikestir> the raw video and input to the encoder can be chained together by passing pointers and letting the data move by DMA
[13:28] <craag> video, picture, video...
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> just gotta go shop, brb
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[13:31] <mfa298> most of my looking at the pi cam so far is the source for the raspistill and raspivid commands. https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland/tree/master/host_applications/linux/apps/raspicam
[13:31] <mfa298> they seem to talk direct to the hardware.
[13:32] <mfa298> been a while since I've played with V4L
[13:35] <mikestir> v4l2 works with a buffer pool. there's an ioctl to request the next one from the kernel, then userspace does it thing and calls another ioctl to give it back
[13:35] <mikestir> you can also expose hardware encoders using the same method, so it's easy to chain them together but you can still grab a buffer out e.g. to pass to libjpeg
[13:35] <mikestir> but it does look like they are doing some crazy proprietary thing
[13:38] <mfa298> an alternative trick could be to grab some images out of the video file.
[13:41] <mikestir> i have an itch to put ssdv on a pico
[13:41] <mikestir> seems like a challenge :)
[13:42] <craag> fs_phil's code uses a standard AVR, so just need a compatible JPEG camera.
[13:42] <mikestir> I know, but that camera seems to be obsolete
[13:42] <craag> yep, he said he was gettign intermittent results from the new one
[13:43] <mikestir> I have a couple of 2Mpixel cameras with on-sensor JPEG that I got for a tenner each from china, but it is a parallel interface
[13:43] <mikestir> I am thinking maybe a small cpld to get a frame into an SRAM, and then an avr to tx
[13:43] <craag> Chinese camera boards give me shivers.
[13:44] <craag> Had 2 projects go downhill because of them
[13:44] <mikestir> these are nothing more than the sensor and a lens mount though
[13:44] <mikestir> and I've used the particular sensor before on a commercial product, so unless it's fake they should be ok
[13:45] <craag> go for it :)
[13:45] <mikestir> if only I had some time :)
[13:46] <craag> time.. hmm yes
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[14:14] <Willdude123> I think I'm going to play the game of "how many things can I do while waiting in the 60 minute EA support queue?'
[14:15] <fsphil> sell your EA game on ebay
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[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> ping fsphil
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> I've downloaded the SSDV zip from fsphil's github and I've changed directory to it. I can't remember the command to install it. Is it sudo make or sudo make program or something?
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's sudo make
[14:34] <fsphil> sudo make install
[14:34] <mfa298> if it's got a Makefile running "make" should build it
[14:34] <fsphil> make first
[14:34] <fsphil> then do the sudo make install
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> it's just done some things after running sudo make
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> gcc -g -O3 -Wall -c main.c -o main.o gcc -g -O3 -Wall -c ssdv.c -o ssdv.o gcc -g -O3 -Wall -c rs8.c -o rs8.o gcc -g main.o ssdv.o rs8.o -o ssdv
[14:35] <fsphil> it'll have built it, but you'll have files in there owned by root now
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> is that enough or should I do something else?
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[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> typing ssdv into the terminal doesn't work. I need to rebuild I think. I'll try sudo make install
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> Will it overwrite it?
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[14:36] <fsphil> you've not installed it yet
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, just done it
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> working, thank you :)
[14:37] <fsphil> I'd run sudo make clean
[14:37] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if you wanted to learn about how Makefiles work then the ssdv one could be a good start (it's fairly simple)
[14:37] <fsphil> just to clear out any files owned by root in the source dir
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll have a look at it mfa298
[14:37] <fsphil> I like my Makefiles simple :)
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: so I cd to it again, run sudo make clean, and it'll still be installed?
[14:37] <fsphil> yea, clean just removes build files from the source directory
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> cool, just done it
[14:38] <fsphil> there actually is no uninstaller other than just deleting /usr/bin/ssdv
[14:38] <mfa298> fsphil: agreed, simple makefiles are good :D
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> is it a big file fsphil? I'm already pushing it recording HD video
[14:38] <fsphil> is what a big file?
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> the ssdv program
[14:38] <fsphil> oh, tiny thing
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> excellent
[14:38] <fsphil> see for yourself, ls -lh /usr/bin/ssdv
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> wow, pretty small yeah
[14:40] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: I think you made a good call launching from down south. the school I'm helping out are still being ignored by the CAA
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that's not good
[14:40] <mikestir> I think we'll end up doing a foil pico or something just to maintain interest
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> good idea, are they better for getting permission?
[14:40] <mikestir> don't need it
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> really?
[14:40] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[14:41] <mikestir> under 2m during the whole flight is exempt
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> brb, more payload tests
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> cool :)
[14:41] <mfa298> if the whole thing (balloon, payload, chute etc.) fits in a 2m sphere for the whole flight it's exempt
[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> that's good for the NORB PCB
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[15:04] <Willdude123> fsphil, I actually managed to do a BF3 match
[15:04] <Willdude123> Actually it was a humble bundle thing so I could.
[15:04] <craag> Yeah I grabbed the humble bundle yesterday, played some bf3 last night.
[15:05] <craag> Tons of people complaining about 'bundle noobs' :P
[15:05] <Upu> what is a humble bundle ?
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[15:05] <fsphil> cheap (free) games
[15:05] <craag> It's a package of games where you pay what you want
[15:05] <Upu> ok
[15:05] <fsphil> though I usually pay and give most to charity
[15:05] <craag> minimum $4.80 to get sims 3 and bf3 though
[15:05] <chrisstubbsAFK> Upu my boards came yesterday :D
[15:05] <Upu> this explains where all the level 1s came from
[15:06] <Upu> cool chrisstubbsAFK
[15:06] <chrisstubbsAFK> Just about to solder the TPS reg, any last words?
[15:06] Nick change: chrisstubbsAFK -> chrisstubbs
[15:06] <Willdude123> Upu , have you got BF3?
[15:06] <Upu> yeah don't knack it they are expensive
[15:06] <chrisstubbs> aha
[15:06] <Upu> sure Willdude123
[15:06] <Willdude123> PC?
[15:06] <Randomskk> wow, that's a hell of a bundle
[15:06] <chrisstubbs> tin one pad, tack, solder gnd through via, do other pads?
[15:06] <Upu> I'm called Willkilla29
[15:06] <Randomskk> EA are really keen on it huh
[15:07] <craag> lol
[15:07] <fsphil> lol
[15:07] <Willdude123> Upu, I'm not that dumb
[15:07] <Willdude123> Might sell the steam codes
[15:07] <Willdude123> (you can redeem them once on both I think
[15:07] <Randomskk> aww don't do that, the whole bundle relies on people having some integrity
[15:07] <fsphil> these bundles don't work on linux though
[15:07] <Randomskk> fsphil: this one doesn't
[15:07] <Randomskk> many do
[15:07] <craag> You won't get much for them... market is a bit saturated :P
[15:08] <Randomskk> the original bundles were all indie games that did run on linux
[15:08] <fsphil> yea I've bought a few of them
[15:08] <Randomskk> and then books
[15:08] <Willdude123> Upu have you got BF3 for PC or not ? :)
[15:08] <Randomskk> the book bundle was good
[15:08] <Upu> Yes Will I have
[15:08] <chrisstubbs> Just as i pick up the iron the element goes. brilliant
[15:08] <qyx_> chrisstubbs: which tps?
[15:08] <Upu> I'm called MrUpu
[15:08] <chrisstubbs> 61201
[15:08] <fsphil> the number you have dialed has been disconnected
[15:09] <qyx_> ah, son10 :)
[15:11] <Willdude123> I wonder if I'm allowed to sell the steam key.
[15:11] <Willdude123> Probably not. But since when has that stopped me?
[15:13] <Willdude123> "I'm a lead farmer mother f*ucker"
[15:14] <Willdude123> Intresting description Upu
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[15:25] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: arround?
[15:25] <Bo_DK_Working> have q's about the yagi calculator
[15:27] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: hello
[15:28] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: got it installed
[15:28] <Bo_DK_Working> but not sure how to fill in box's... freq dont thou
[15:29] <Willdude123> Anyone here want Crysis 2 Maximum Edition Steam key for 0.1 BTC?
[15:29] <Willdude123> :P
[15:31] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: depends how you want to make it. for pvc overflow pipe the boom diameter is 22mm and mounting is "non metal boom"
[15:31] <Bo_DK_Working> ok... got 25mm i think
[15:32] <Bo_DK_Working> let me check and fill in
[15:33] <mikestir> 35mm is reasonable for the dipole bend diameter, but obviously depends a bit on how you are going to mount it
[15:33] <mikestir> I made a jig out of a bit of old wooden curtain pole, so that set the diameter for me
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[15:33] <Bo_DK_Working> like you.... ie in box etc
[15:33] <Bo_DK_Working> i have hole sut saws so can make almost jig as i want
[15:36] <Bo_DK_Working> ok...
[15:36] <Bo_DK_Working> diapole gab at feed point?
[15:36] <Bo_DK_Working> 10mm?
[15:39] <mikestir> that should be as small as practical
[15:39] <mikestir> at 434 MHz 10mm is ok
[15:40] <mikestir> I think that's what I used, then I used some the clamps out of some DIN rail terminals to attach the feeder
[15:40] <Bo_DK_Working> jig made... the hole cut set it so solid that i can bed arround it
[15:41] <Bo_DK_Working> and you said rg-8x was the best ?
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[15:47] <Bo|2> F...ing pi
[15:47] <Bo|2> locked up again....
[15:47] Nick change: Bo|2 -> Bo_DK_Working
[15:47] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: coax depends what you've got to hand. rg8x is probably a good trade off between performance and being physically manageable
[15:47] <mikestir> I used rg58 and it's fine - it's only really a pigtail after all
[15:48] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe.. have no cable so need to get
[15:48] <mfa298> most of my portable antennas use rg58 as that's what I've got and it's fine for a couple of metres
[15:48] <Bo_DK_Working> and is that what is used in sma? ie wifi antenna etc
[15:49] <mfa298> some people have magmounts with rg174 which is even smaller with more loss
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[15:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:49] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: actually if you want to go directly to sma then go for rg58. I doubt you'll get a connector for anything larger
[15:49] <mfa298> you can get sma connectors for a variety of cable types but you'll need a crimp tool of the right size for most of them
[15:50] <Bo_DK_Working> will have cable shop crimp :-D
[15:50] <mikestir> and remember that wifi doesn't use SMA - it's some stupid backwards SMA that the consumer electronics industry invented
[15:50] <Bo_DK_Working> what are the 2 gray box's to the right?
[15:50] <mfa298> most wifi antennas are rp-sma which is different to sma (see http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rf_connectors)
[15:50] <Bo_DK_Working> dinner soon so might go
[15:51] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: with the balun you need to be able to deal with three coax ends inside the box, so keeping it lightweight will help
[15:52] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: those are parameters for the element construction. chose round, non-metal boom and whatever your element diameter is
[15:52] <mikestir> the TIG rods I found were 3.6 mm iirc
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[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'm having a problem with this code trying to get SSDV to work
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB/blob/master/NORB.py
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> If I take the Pi Cam out and run the program, the program detects no images and sends the telemetry, which is fine
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> If the Pi Cam is in and it finds images, it'll send the images packet by packet, which is fine
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> However, it should be sending some telemetry in between each packet, which for some reason it doesn't
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> And I can't work out why this is... :/
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> I would have expected the problem to be in the very last while loop, but I can't find an issue
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> And another thing, when the Pi Cam isn't in and it does send telemetry, flight mode is always False
[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> To be honest, I'm not too bothered about SSDV anyway. The images that are being transmitted will only get deleted
[16:06] <mfa298> I can't see anything obviously wrong
[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> Neither can I...
[16:07] <mfa298> although I'd probably have written it slightly differently so you didn't duplicate as much code (although I'm not exactly sure what I'd have done)
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> But like I say, I've got it working perfectly without SSDV and only 5 days before launch, not really a good idea to be messing with code
[16:07] <mfa298> I wouldn't go changing it much before launch - bug fixes only.
[16:07] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I could have condensed those operations into a function so I could just call the function instead of re-writing line after line
[16:08] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I'll leave SSDV for this one
[16:09] <mfa298> function would be one way, otherwise I'd be looking at writing the while loop and ssdv packets a different way.
[16:09] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, yeah could do
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[16:10] <mfa298> probably something like one while loop, that will try sending image packets (if you have some) and telemetry. And only load a new file when it's run out of packets.
[16:10] <mfa298> but that's not a bugfix level of change!
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> haha, certainly not. That's a re-write
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[16:30] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Is it me or did you write the norb software really quickly>
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> well, I added to some old code I had but yeah, pretty quick Willdude123 :)
[16:32] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[16:32] <Willdude123> Oh did you start with an arduino tracker then>
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> No I started with the Pi and wrote some code before I had this breakout. Then I just made some slight adjustments
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> This flight is NORB but it doesn't use a NORB board, confusingly
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> What is NORB?
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> The name I gave to my flight :)
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> Ah OK
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> Don't ask what the first two letters stand for...
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> Near Orbit Research Balloon :)
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> Near orbit is quite funny I know
[16:35] <mfa298> well it's nearer to orbit than being on the ground :p
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> exactly
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> but it is definately not in space
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> like many TV people thing
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> think
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> yeah :) That would be exciting
[16:36] <LeoBodnar> You can launch a satellite for only £100k
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> oh wow, I'll consider it :)
[16:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm in two minds as to whether I should partition my SD card to have a section that I can save the video in. OR, let the OS have the entire SD card and just record to the /home/pi directory... ?
[16:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to work out if there are any advantages in doing so. Some people don't bother, others do...
[16:38] <Bo_DK_Working> back.. reading backlog
[16:38] <mfa298> having a seperate fat32 / exfat partition makes life easier if you want to mount the sd card on windows to view the video files
[16:38] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: you said i had to deal with 3 coax ends.... ??
[16:38] <LeoBodnar> Raspberry Pi writes to the boot media?
[16:39] <Bo_DK_Working> just the hill billy asking :-d
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, I was looking into it and I was told to resize the OS partition to about 2gb and use the rest for videos. But I'm not sure how
[16:39] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm... i run pi as dekstop
[16:39] <Bo_DK_Working> i think they mean resize rootfs
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> I was looking at using gparted but when I was told to resize root to "about" 2gb, I was a bit skeptical
[16:39] <LeoBodnar> Balun Bo_DK_Working
[16:40] <Bo_DK_Working> normal pi uses 2 partitions
[16:40] <Bo_DK_Working> 1 for boot and VERY small
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> But same flash media?
[16:40] <Bo_DK_Working> yes
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> Oh god
[16:40] <Bo_DK_Working> intial when i set my pi up it had same thing
[16:40] <Bo_DK_Working> thou i opted to move rootfs to an external harddrive
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> I think they have designed it to teach kid in Africa how to compute
[16:41] <ibanezmatt13> do they do any decent partition resising software for windws?
[16:41] <mfa298> the firmare has to be on the SD card (and I think on a fat partition)
[16:41] <Bo_DK_Working> you cant get rid of sd card enttirely
[16:41] <mfa298> you could use a USB stick/ USB HDD for the main filesystem
[16:41] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: only boot parttition needs to be on sd
[16:41] <LeoBodnar> Now it is used in almost safety-of-life applications
[16:42] <qyx_> and whats wrong with rootfs and boot on sd together?
[16:42] <Bo_DK_Working> but yes loads of options on how to do it
[16:42] <qyx_> thats quite common setup on many embedded boards
[16:42] <Bo_DK_Working> qyx_: LOADS of writes will make the sd card fail before its time
[16:43] <qyx_> you should optimize the os to not write that much
[16:43] <Bo_DK_Working> so many move rootfs to something thats designed for lots of writes
[16:43] <LeoBodnar> like what?
[16:43] <qyx_> there are mount options for that
[16:43] <Bo_DK_Working> qyx_: makers of disttros should that... not the user
[16:43] <qyx_> noatime being the basic one
[16:43] <Bo_DK_Working> ohh.... that easy
[16:44] <qyx_> also you could move /tmp, /var and such on tmpfs in ram
[16:44] <qyx_> i supposed that rpi has that optimized
[16:44] <Bo_DK_Working> anyways its equal easy to move rootfs so i could not bother with it
[16:44] <qyx_> but don't know really, i don't have rpi
[16:44] <mfa298> with the limited memory in a pi I don't think I'd want to move much into tmpfs
[16:45] <ibanezmatt13> ok so I need to firstly find some partition software for windows, any particular program?
[16:45] <qyx_> we were using openwrt on mikrotik's which have 32MB of ram
[16:45] <Bo_DK_Working> ibanezmatt13: is your sd runnning?
[16:45] <LeoBodnar> fdisk
[16:45] <mfa298> partitionmagic used to be good on windows (but I don't think I've looked at it for ~15 years)
[16:45] <ibanezmatt13> Bo_DK_Working: Everything's working perfectly. I just want to save my videos to a partition as opposed to a folder on the Pi's OS
[16:45] <qyx_> mfa298: hm, 256M is plenty of ram
[16:46] <mfa298> qyx_: depends on what you're doing
[16:46] <mfa298> but /var in tmpfs probably isn't good.
[16:46] <qyx_> you could even use squashfs or some other compressed readonly fs and run the whole system from ram
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[16:48] <Steve_2E0VET> anyone got any ideas why an ISP500 programmer uploads very very slowly
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[16:48] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, mine does the same, not sure if its normal
[16:48] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, is yours the AVR-ISP500
[16:49] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[16:49] <Steve_2E0VET> it takes about 1-2mins to upload a sketch?
[16:49] <mfa298> for *some* tasks you could run he whole system from ram. But the pi is supposed to be a low power general purpose computer so you tend to have more stuff installed and want to be able to install a wide range of apps - they can even run X.
[16:49] <Steve_2E0VET> its a pain when you upload 10,000 times a day
[16:50] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: if you upload 10,000 times a day you'll need some new chips quickly :p
[16:50] <chrisstubbs> Not that long I dont think, but a far bit longer than uploading over uart
[16:50] <daveake> I don't know that model but i'm guessing you need to change the programming speed
[16:50] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, tried that
[16:50] <daveake> The one I use is much quicker than using FTDI; so should yours
[16:51] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, there isnt a limit to the amount of times you can upload to anarduino is there?
[16:51] <mikestir> there's a limit to the number of times you can re-program any flash device
[16:51] <daveake> flash does have a limit, but it's very high
[16:51] <mfa298> the avr chips are limited number or writes to flash and eeprom
[16:51] <Steve_2E0VET> ok
[16:51] <mfa298> the lowest limit is 10k from memory but that might be eeprom
[16:52] <mikestir> eeprom should be higher
[16:52] <daveake> If you're hitting the limit on one project you're doing something wrong :p
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[16:52] <daveake> for programming that is
[16:53] <mfa298> from the datasheet for a differnt avr, write/erase cycles is 10K(Flash), 100K(eeprom)
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[16:59] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Why not change the name to Near(er) Orbit Research Balloon.
[16:59] <daveake> Notin
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> nah, Willdude123, near is near enough :)
[17:01] <daveake> Scrolling back down the log ... re the Pi Cam ... no it doesn't use V4L2. No driver for that (yet).
[17:04] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir or others... last box on yagi calc... should i set dipole as fully insulated?
[17:05] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: yes if you're using a plastic boom
[17:08] <Bo_DK_Working> :-d
[17:08] <Bo_DK_Working> getting there
[17:10] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: able to give my resuslts a quick look? just so they are not total down the crapper?
[17:11] <Bo_DK_Working> or should i just list the vaules i put in?
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[17:11] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm
[17:11] <Bo_DK_Working> save as MAA.. is that any good?
[17:12] <Bo_DK_Working> i see there is an optimizer of some kind that can use that
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[17:13] <Steve_2E0VET> is there any other software other than avrdude and avrstudio for the arduino (pref lightweight)
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[17:14] <mfa298> avrdude is probably fairly lightweight on it's own, but I think it's only for loading the compiled code onto the chip
[17:15] <mfa298> you could probably use avr studio but that's not lightweight
[17:15] <mfa298> you may also be able to get the avr-gcc apps for windows (compiler)
[17:15] <Steve_2E0VET> i hear it might be something to do with the software that it takes a long time to upload
[17:15] <LeoBodnar> Keil
[17:15] <mikestir> lol
[17:15] <mfa298> if you get the compiled code, you might be able to try running avrdude manually
[17:16] <mikestir> IAR if you like IDEs from the 90s
[17:16] <Steve_2E0VET> it can come from the '50s if it runs quicker
[17:16] <mfa298> vim, avr-gcc, avrdude if you're hardcore (or other command line compiler etc)
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[17:17] <mikestir> if it's programming that's slow then you need to point the finger of blame at the programmer and/or its software
[17:17] <mikestir> a full atmega328 should program in a couple of seconds
[17:18] <mattbrejza> some programmers have a 'go slow' option
[17:18] <mattbrejza> for when using a slow crystal
[17:18] <mattbrejza> that could be enabled
[17:18] <mattbrejza> either at the command line or via a jumper on the programmer
[17:19] <Bo_DK_Working> yaaaa... yagi designed
[17:20] <Bo_DK_Working> 13,8 dBd gain is that bad?
[17:21] <mikestir> how many elements?
[17:21] <Bo_DK_Working> 13
[17:21] <mikestir> sounds reasonable
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> dBd?
[17:22] <Bo_DK_Working> yes
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> what is the last d in dBd Bo_DK_Working ?
[17:23] <nigelvh> dipole
[17:23] <mfa298> reference to dipole normally
[17:23] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[17:23] <nigelvh> vs dBi (isotropic)
[17:23] <Bo_DK_Working> dBi is 16
[17:23] <mfa298> so that's around 16dBi
[17:24] <Bo_DK_Working> do anyone have a pic of the balun an dipole... not sure on that thou i have a pic of it from the calculator
[17:24] <nigelvh> Hams have a tendency to like dBd because it's referenced on an antenna that they have a concept of.
[17:25] <mikestir> and most of the power limits for ISM are specified as ERP rather than EIRP
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> Is it referenced to dipole in free space or near ground?
[17:26] <nigelvh> dBd = dBi + 2.15
[17:26] <nigelvh> IE, a dipole has 2.15dB of gain over a isotropic radiator.
[17:26] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: you take a loop of coax of the length it tells you, as well as the feeder. connect all the braids together. connect inner of feeder to one end of dipole and one end of loop. connect other end of loop to other end of dipole.
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> Why on earth an antenna gain is referenced to another antenna's gain?
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> dB3elY
[17:27] <mikestir> LeoBodnar: I suppose it's helpful e.g. when you're testing radiation pattern against a reference dipole
[17:27] <mikestir> since you can actually make a dipole
[17:27] <nigelvh> an isotropic radiator is an ideal point radiator, which can't exist, but is a convenient physics thingy.
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> dBLW
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> dBducky
[17:28] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: thanks... will try and make sense of it
[17:28] <nigelvh> Dipoles have 2.15dB of gain compared to an ideal isotropic radiator, and dipoles actually exist, so some people like to reference antennas in dBd.
[17:29] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: press the "Balun" button. shows you a pretty clear diagram
[17:29] <Bo_DK_Working> i printed that
[17:29] <Bo_DK_Working> just got confused
[17:30] <Bo_DK_Working> but where is this balun placed?
[17:30] <mikestir> at the feed point
[17:30] <Bo_DK_Working> ok...
[17:31] <Bo_DK_Working> ahh got a pic from google....
[17:31] <Bo_DK_Working> not it rings a bell
[17:31] <mfa298> baluns are generally used to convert from an unbalanced feedline (coax) to a balanced antenna (dipole/ yagi)
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[17:32] <mfa298> it comes from Bal(anced) Un(balanced) and there are a range of different designs for different uses
[17:32] <mikestir> and in this case it also provides an impedance transformation
[17:33] <Bo_DK_Working> lookin at this https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTd1XoLIbP4W68FTm70osfZt16mJL0ZBh__sCGwctoMtcnvuigrQ
[17:33] <Bo_DK_Working> makes sense... to me at least
[17:34] <Bo_DK_Working> am i lookin at the right thing?
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[17:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes its just a "delay" line of 1/2 Lambda to feed the other side of the dipole
[17:37] <Bo_DK_Working> hehehehe it was more the principle in how its made....
[17:38] <mfa298> if it's also doing an impedance match you might need to check if it specifies a different impedance of coax.
[17:39] <mfa298> although if the antenna is only being used for recieve a small mismatch shouldn't make a huge difference.
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[17:42] <Bo_DK_Working> i hope not.. going to check if there is much gain to be achived by adding more elements
[17:43] <mfa298> you probably won't get much more gain, and more elements makes the yagi bigger and I think you have to be more precise in getting the measurements right
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[17:55] <Bo_DK_Working> you are right... only 3 more dbd even if i double no of elements
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[17:58] <daveake> Unsurprising really :) ... double the elements double the signal
[17:59] <mfa298> and probably double the complexity of getting it right (to get that extra gain)
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[18:01] <daveake> at least :)
[18:02] <Astrobiologist> Earlier today I was asking about the resaleability of rigs
[18:02] <Astrobiologist> Will SDR change this in the future?
[18:03] <mattbrejza> they cant transmit for a start
[18:03] <galjo> hello I'm Luka and I'm plannig to release balon in near space. Basis will be Raspberry Pi
[18:03] <mfa298> i don't think it will affect it much
[18:03] <mfa298> most hams, will go for sdr in addition to some other radio
[18:03] <mikestir> mattbrejza: of course sdr can transmit
[18:04] <mattbrejza> well the e4k ones
[18:04] <mikestir> no I mean in general
[18:04] <mattbrejza> which i was assuming we were refering to
[18:04] <mikestir> oh I took at as meaning when rigs move to sdr
[18:04] <mattbrejza> yea i know in general they can (ive made one :P)
[18:04] <mikestir> it*
[18:04] <galjo> How to configure NTX2 transmitter and RPi to send data to the ground. What program is the best?
[18:05] <Astrobiologist> There are already DVBT dongles for iPhones
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[18:05] <craag> Also hams won't use the 'new-fangled' sdr for at least another few years.
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[18:05] <mfa298> need an sdr with valves before some hams will use them :p
[18:05] <Astrobiologist> So if such a thing could transmit, that would be very close to a handheld SDR transceiver
[18:06] <craag> Transmitting or receiving RF with SDR is very easy. It's transmitting it cleanly and receiving it well that's the difficult bit.
[18:06] <mfa298> galjo: the people that have used a Pi based tracker have generally used the same resistor divider setup as with the arduino and use the serial port at 300baud (or 50 baud if it works)
[18:06] <mattbrejza> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi galjo
[18:07] <Bo_DK_Working> about the complexity etc... i just take the time to build it etc... and messure everything twice before doing
[18:07] <Bo_DK_Working> have learned that the hard way
[18:07] <Astrobiologist> Laptop+dongle at least as expensive as a good rig... and much less portable and convenient...
[18:08] <Astrobiologist> But tablet or smartphone based would be a different matter
[18:08] <Bo_DK_Working> the trick is to cunstruct so it can be taken apart and be no longer than it fits in teh boot of a car
[18:08] <mfa298> that depends on which sdr your comparing with which rig
[18:08] <mattbrejza> issue with the dongles is they require a decent amount of power
[18:08] <mfa298> there are some expensive SDRs and some expensive rigs
[18:08] <mattbrejza> in terms of watts over USB and processing power
[18:09] <mattbrejza> so better to have a icom r20 + tablet
[18:09] <mattbrejza> or phone
[18:09] <mikestir> mattbrejza: have you got/used an r20?
[18:09] <mattbrejza> but more monies
[18:09] <Bo_DK_Working> Astrobiologist also depends on rig... if you are a bit clever it can almost be in same box
[18:09] <mattbrejza> yep mikestir , its very nice
[18:09] <mattbrejza> (i borrow when needed)
[18:09] <mikestir> been drooling over it
[18:10] <mikestir> it seems quite reasonably priced for an rx that can cover dc to light
[18:10] <Astrobiologist> I am not an electronics expert. I doubt I'd ever get a dongle working properly without a lot of help
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[18:10] <daveake> There's a tutorial in the wiki
[18:11] <mattbrejza> yea i have a scanner that can do 0-2G or someting that was £70, not amazing though performance wise
[18:11] <Bo_DK_Working> Astrobiologist: you might want to follow me and mikestir then.... me trying to make a very light but good rig that can turn the yagi automatic...
[18:11] <Bo_DK_Working> and mikestir doing an sdr that runs on pi
[18:11] <mfa298> the cheap sdr dongles are fairly simple to setup.
[18:11] <Astrobiologist> I'd like to he independent of a laptop in any case. And it's the ham stuff that interests me a lot too now
[18:11] <Bo_DK_Working> Astrobiologist: in the end it should be an automatic listing station
[18:12] <Bo_DK_Working> Astrobiologist: no laptop in our idea... just an raspberry pi
[18:12] <Astrobiologist> I've got it fairly well planned out... you all helped me a lot. the eBay bid is in...
[18:13] <mfa298> is that on the f7e ?
[18:13] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: btw.... when tina let fo of win pc i will get schematics done.. care to give it a look as time allows?
[18:13] <mattbrejza> Astrobiologist: what are you actually trying to do? rtty, aprs etc, you seem to keep changing your mind :P
[18:13] <mikestir> Bo_DK_Working: if it's quick. I'm trying to get some work done on webradio
[18:13] <mikestir> among everything else
[18:13] <Bo_DK_Working> not now... and you can look as time allows
[18:14] <Astrobiologist> Bo_DK_Working, sounds very interesting, I always have a fetish for single-linux :-)
[18:14] <Bo_DK_Working> need tina to let go of pc on her own
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[18:14] <Bo_DK_Working> women tend to get cranky when you ask them to piss off
[18:14] <Astrobiologist> Mfa298 yes, the f7e
[18:14] <mikestir> Astrobiologist: my web sdr is extremely early days at the minute. I wouldn't recommend it for starters!
[18:16] <Bo_DK_Working> Astrobiologist: btw... my fault in saying raspberry pi... it should have been BEagle Bone Black... more cpu power for the radio/decode
[18:17] <Astrobiologist> mattbrejza I'm perfectly happy and focused on a handheld, want to do ham in various portable locations. But I looked up SDR and I wondered how much that would change everything in the medium term
[18:18] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[18:19] <Astrobiologist> Bo_DK_Working how is the Beagle Bone? I'm interested in that for future complex payloads. I flew a PC104 linux computer before, it was a bit of a beast
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123 is having problems with it interfering with GPS
[18:20] <Astrobiologist> The Pi seems to have lots of bits I don't need (HDMI etc!)
[18:20] <Astrobiologist> What I really want is lots of GPIO ports
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> I don't know if he's foxed that
[18:20] <Bo_DK_Working> not sure... only have the pi... mikestir just suggested to develop rig based on BBB
[18:20] Action: SpeedEvil quacks.
[18:21] <Astrobiologist> Pi much cheaper and ubiquitous
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> hardly'much
[18:21] <Bo_DK_Working> Astrobiologist: there is also a romour that Pi has inificient regluators
[18:21] <craag> $10 cheaper
[18:21] <craag> and yes, the BBB takes about half the power of a model B in my experience.
[18:21] <Bo_DK_Working> but those can me changed if you are good with a soldering iron
[18:21] <daveake> Bo_DK_Working, It does. Well one of them. Fixable.
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[18:22] <SpeedEvil> and you disable usb and it uses lots less
[18:22] <Bo_DK_Working> shit my spelling
[18:22] <mikestir> just to be clear (Bo_DK_Working) webradio is cross-platform and not affiliated with Bo's yagi pointing project
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[18:22] <Astrobiologist> Also it you have to download masses of dlls for Pi or Beagle etc, and the programming to even check a GPIO is too torturous, then I'm not sure how to proceed
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> compareabke with a beafkw
[18:22] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil, I'm going to do a few shielding experiments with it
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> good luck.
[18:22] <daveake> On the Pi you just install GPIO. Takes seconds.
[18:22] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: hehe... i know... i just hope that i can get help getting webradio adjusted for the purpose
[18:23] <Astrobiologist> Between this and trying to work out how to 3D print the moving parts of my payloads, I have made little progress since my flight in 2010
[18:23] <Willdude123> BBB is the same. UARTs take a little setting up
[18:23] <Astrobiologist> So I'm keen on doing some tracking instead in the meantime and meanwhile get ham experience
[18:23] <mikestir> has anyone investigated BBB GPS interference with a spectrum analyser?
[18:24] <Willdude123> IDK
[18:24] <Willdude123> I don't have one.
[18:24] <craag> mikestir: I tried a ublox next to a BB the other day, no issues.
[18:24] <Bo_DK_Working> Q know we talk GPS.....
[18:24] <craag> Wasn't connected though.
[18:24] <Willdude123> Really?
[18:24] <Willdude123> Wow.
[18:24] <Astrobiologist> (not just leisure, long term aim of full license for APRS balloon tracking internationally)
[18:24] <Bo_DK_Working> craag: the ublox need a passive antenna right?
[18:25] <Bo_DK_Working> not got that far yet
[18:25] <mikestir> Willdude123: did you take the gps outside to get a lock? I was surprised by how much difference actually having acquired made
[18:25] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: You can use an active one, but it's good enough not to need it :)
[18:25] <Bo_DK_Working> also i had a bit trouble navigating the datasheet
[18:25] <Willdude123> Yes, I went outside, and found the GPS interfered with the ublox
[18:25] <mikestir> no hope of getting a lock indoors, but take it outside and let it lock, then it would work quite happily indoors until it was powered off
[18:25] <Willdude123> On an FTDI
[18:25] <Willdude123> Bringing it close made it loose lock.
[18:26] <Willdude123> craag, interesting you had no problems.
[18:26] <Bo_DK_Working> craag: have any source for one of those passive antennas?
[18:26] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: HAB supplies
[18:26] <Bo_DK_Working> of course :-)
[18:26] <mikestir> I'll have a look at the BBB on a speccy analyser at some point to see if there are any nasty spikes
[18:27] <craag> Willdude123: Yeah... I'll be trying connecting one up, not for a few weeks though.
[18:27] <mattbrejza> http://uk.farnell.com/avago-technologies/alm-1412-blkg/amp-lo-noise-gps-wlan-12mcob/dp/1645979
[18:27] <mattbrejza> bit of an extreme solution
[18:27] <Willdude123> craag, I hope you don't beat me.
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[18:27] <Willdude123> Mine has a taoglas antenna.
[18:27] <Willdude123> Didn't work with passive either.
[18:28] <craag> Willdude123: I'm not making a HAB tracker.
[18:28] <craag> Oh you got one of the new ones :)
[18:28] <Bo_DK_Working> mattbrejza: interesting link
[18:28] <mattbrejza> ask Randomskk for more infos
[18:28] <Willdude123> Oh what are you doing with the BBB craag ?
[18:29] <Randomskk> lol
[18:29] <Randomskk> it works i guess
[18:29] <Randomskk> shunt inductor ant_in to gnd will upset you when you check for continuity
[18:29] <Randomskk> and soldering it is entertaining
[18:29] <Randomskk> because the package is stupid
[18:29] <Randomskk> http://randomskk.net/u/supernemo.png
[18:29] <Randomskk> that's teeeeny btw
[18:30] <craag> Willdude123: Work.
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi Randomskk
[18:30] <mattbrejza> have you made a new tracker since wombat?
[18:30] <Willdude123> Oh K
[18:30] <craag> GPS is for time synchronisation, and maybe some asset tracking.
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday night I completed the schematic :)
[18:30] <Randomskk> not personally no
[18:30] <Bo_DK_Working> mattbrejza + Randomskk is this an amp for GPS?
[18:30] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Working: yes
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> now it comes to the footprints
[18:30] <Randomskk> and a filter
[18:30] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, so I have to do the footprints for my new parts first in the pcbnew editor, right?
[18:31] <mattbrejza> 3mm x 2mm ...
[18:31] <Randomskk> yea.
[18:31] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: what is your experience with it? ie comparison between not using it and after added?
[18:32] <Astrobiologist> I might go out and get a Pi then, can walk out with one at Maplin, one advantage over BB!
[18:32] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Working: didn't make a comparison. it's pointless for a HAB imo, they have a clear view of the sky
[18:32] <Astrobiologist> I guess I just had a bad experience with the PC104 Titan
[18:32] <Randomskk> it was a faff. I wouldn't use it again.
[18:33] <Astrobiologist> The libraries etc on that should have been easy, but they weren't
[18:33] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: hehe i was thinking of using it in a ground tracker
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[18:33] <Randomskk> indoors or what
[18:33] <mikestir> I was wondering about this actually - is there any point in an active antenna for any application with essentially no feeder?
[18:33] <Randomskk> if the antenna has a clear sky view then meh
[18:33] <Randomskk> mikestir: not for GPS
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, and then, the CVPCB will have my new footprints?
[18:33] <mikestir> it's basically implying that the rx isn't optimally sensitive otherwise
[18:33] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander yes
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[18:34] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: outdoor
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> thank
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> +s
[18:34] <Randomskk> tbh probably pointless
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[18:34] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[18:34] <Randomskk> with modern ublox esp
[18:34] <Astrobiologist> Never got to the bottom of it. Linux adds a lot of complexity
[18:34] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: hehe... good to know
[18:34] <Astrobiologist> But I still think when you get into 1000s of lines of code it is a better foundation than trying to squeeze it all into an Arduino
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> short question
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> if I want to have a vertical pointed Sarantel ublox breakout
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> shall I remove the ground plane below it?
[18:36] <craag> Ground plane below it?
[18:36] <Randomskk> only below the antenna
[18:36] <Randomskk> and nearby
[18:37] <Astrobiologist> But I'm going to take a "holiday" from all this with a Kenwood handheld and a morse chart!!
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[18:37] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[18:37] <craag> There has been some issues with ground plane spacing on the new sarantels though I think.
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[18:37] <craag> So I wouldn't mess with it.
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. I would have one of Upu's breakouts and it would sit vertically on the PCB
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> so that the sarantel is one breakout lenghth from the PCB
[18:39] <craag> Yep, sounds good.
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> so the ground plane on the PCB doesn't matter?
[18:43] <craag> It's only blocking it from seeing the ground right?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[18:44] <Randomskk> yea that's fine Lunar_Lander, no worries on your pcb
[18:44] <craag> It's more than a couple of cm away, at GPS wavelengths you can model it as an obstruction.
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:45] <Willdude123> craag, there aren't new sarantels, they went bust, didn't they>
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> so I think I can do a simple 7 pin header
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> as the breakout isn't really big in both dimensions
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. it isn't much wider than a normal header and so on
[18:46] <craag> Willdude123: They did. But they released a new version of the antenna first.
[18:46] <craag> You'll have the new one, Upu started using them a few months ago.
[18:46] <craag> The old ones snapped off PCBs *very* easily!
[18:47] <Willdude123> I'm using a Taoglas antenna
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[18:47] <craag> Willdude123: I mean the passive one.
[18:47] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[18:48] <Bo_DK_Working> Willdude123: the toaglas is an active one right? have a link to it?
[18:48] <craag> The taoglas look cool, can't wait to try one out.
[18:48] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: Yeah it is, they're tiny though!
[18:49] <Bo_DK_Working> no issue... have pick and place here with microscope
[18:49] <Bo_DK_Working> try google tmp112
[18:49] <craag> Oh I mean it's a good thing!
[18:49] <Bo_DK_Working> thats a small sucker
[18:49] <craag> Antenna +LNA+SAW all in the tiny package.
[18:49] <Bo_DK_Working> craag: damm...
[18:49] <Bo_DK_Working> need to google it
[18:50] <craag> getting a link for you..
[18:50] <Bo_DK_Working> thanks
[18:50] <galjo> mfa298 & mattbrejza: I know I'm looking all over the web but nothing specific. Do you know what program I need to decode to RTTY and then send it over NTX2?
[18:51] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm sue you mean decode?
[18:51] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: http://www.taoglas.com/antennas/GPS-GLONASS_Antennas/Internal_GPS_-_Active_Patch_Modules/
[18:51] <Bo_DK_Working> or is it just me...
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[18:51] <Bo_DK_Working> brain is slowing down
[18:51] <mfa298> galjo: on the pi most people send characters to the serial device and that encodes it for you.
[18:52] <mfa298> rtty is essentially serial over radio with one tone for logic high and another tone for logic low.
[18:52] <mfa298> the resistor network in the examples on the ukhas site will control the two tones
[18:53] <galjo> mfa298: I understand that. How to decode to RTTY?
[18:54] <mfa298> decoding it is done usually done with a radio reciever and dl-fldigi
[18:54] <mfa298> with an ssb reciever you'll hear the two tones if you're on the right frequency (which will be close to the frequency marked on the ntx2)
[18:54] <daveake> galjo At the Pi end you don't "decode" you simply send your string to the serial port. That's all. As mfa298 says on the ground you need a radio receiver and decoding software (dl-fldigi)
[18:55] <Bo_DK_Working> craag: thanks for link
[18:57] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: Np, they're a little pricey but hopefully Anthony can get a good deal.
[18:57] <galjo> daveake & mfa298: Can you provide good tutorial or just info about that?
[18:58] <mfa298> galjo: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[18:58] <Bo_DK_Working> craag: bit shame for me that the only SMT verions have the antenna at 90 degree angle
[18:59] <daveake> galjo To be clear, on the Pi, you write your own program. The link to the NTX2 is very simple (see mfa298's link earlier) and that part of your program will be very, very simple
[18:59] <galjo> Thanks for that
[19:00] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm could of course just mount box so ant points up
[19:03] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: If you look at the datasheet, it implies it's performance is reasonable omnidirectional. Obviously pointing up would be better, but there might not be much difference.
[19:04] <Bo_DK_Working> hehee maybe i'm just anal :-(
[19:04] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[19:04] <craag> Oh I'm the same :P But if you want something in a small box without mini-masts on the side, you have to compromise.
[19:04] <Bo_DK_Working> ohhh
[19:05] <Bo_DK_Working> found some others
[19:05] <Bo_DK_Working> http://www.taoglas.com/antennas/GPS-GLONASS_Antennas/Internal_GPS_-_Passive_SMT_Mount_Ceramic_Patch_Antennas/
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> mikestir: I have r20 here, it's good
[19:07] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm .... about to priotize wishlist for my b-day....
[19:08] <Bo_DK_Working> which hab item should go first? habamp or dongle?
[19:08] <craag> dongle
[19:08] <Bo_DK_Working> yeah... thats my thought also
[19:08] <craag> You can get something working without the habamp
[19:08] <Bo_DK_Working> yes
[19:08] <Bo_DK_Working> and amp just makes it better...
[19:09] <craag> yep
[19:09] <Bo_DK_Working> and dongle VERY cheap anyway
[19:09] <Bo_DK_Working>
[19:09] <craag> I've received flights from 100+ miles away with the bare dongle and a wire 1/4 wave. So it does work.
[19:09] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe....
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> when and if i get this working i might go ask the hospital if i can rent roof space for free....
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> at least 13 floor high building
[19:10] <craag> That would be nice!
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> cant remeber excat
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[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> give ma a sec and i have google map link to it
[19:10] <craag> Access can be very difficult to those sorts of places though.
[19:11] <Bo_DK_Working> yeah... i asumme a NO...
[19:11] <Bo_DK_Working> then i can only be surprised
[19:11] <craag> Especially when a mobile phone provider will pay fortunes for the same place
[19:11] <craag> WOrth a try!
[19:11] <Bo_DK_Working> else i would poke arround the country side
[19:12] <mfa298> hospitals might be particularly wary about access to a roof top as they might have important plant stuff up there (generators for emergency supply etc.)
[19:12] <Bo_DK_Working> nice with my rig idea is that i can just put it on top of camera tripod and leave it
[19:12] <Bo_DK_Working> generators normal in basement here
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[19:12] <Bo_DK_Working> and close to ER
[19:12] <Bo_DK_Working> and intensive care
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> many hospitals only have emerngency for VERY critical stuff
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> like Op theater...
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[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> intensive care etc
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> rest of hospital are fucked
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[19:14] <Willdude123> craag they're only cool if they work
[19:14] <mfa298> that was just an example, could also be water storage, Aircon etc. - Emergency supply for a hospital will probably also cover most buildings, not just intensive care. (I've known network hub rooms to be on that supply)
[19:14] <craag> Willdude123: True :/
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> Bo_DK_Working, hello to denmark
[19:15] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: that funnt pic you showed few hours back.. that showed something hight related right?
[19:15] <Bo_DK_Working> Lunar_Lander: hi there.... where are you from?
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> germany
[19:16] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe... guten abend mein herr :-D
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[19:17] <Bo_DK_Working> where you among the group that launched close to border?
[19:17] <Bo_DK_Working> and payload gut stuck 20 meters up a tree?
[19:18] ibanezmatt13 (56a73d7f@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> After a successful antenna test this afternoon and some video tests this evening, I think it's safe to say that NORB is ready to go this Saturday :)
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> Providing the weather is ok
[19:20] <craag> Good luck ibanezmatt13 !
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> thanks craag :)
[19:21] <daveake> Fingers crossed on the predictions then
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I believe you and Anthony are launching on the Sunday
[19:21] <daveake> Hoping so
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:27] <Willdude123> Hallo Lunar_Lander
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone know a video camera that is reasonably priced and not 808-like in GPS jamming?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi Willdude123
[19:27] <Bo_DK_Working> Lunar_Lander: where you among the group that launched close to border?
[19:27] <Bo_DK_Working> Lunar_Lander: nd payload gut stuck 20 meters up a tree?
[19:27] <Willdude123> Wie geht es Ihnen?
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> no, I launched in Osnabrück
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and then landed in the Weser :)
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> good thanks and yourself Willdude123 ?
[19:28] <Bo_DK_Working> ok... it was just a shame for the others
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[19:28] <Bo_DK_Working> they will have to wit until it falls down by itself
[19:28] <mclane> Bo_DK_Working: that was us
[19:28] <Bo_DK_Working> mclane: is it still up in the tree?
[19:29] <mclane> yes
[19:29] <mclane> no chance to recover it
[19:29] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm... once i heard i got an idea
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:29] Action: craag waits for Bo_DK_Working to save us all from the trees...
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> Bo_DK_Working, actually OZ1SKY could receive us :)
[19:30] <Willdude123> vernünftigerweise OK
[19:30] <Bo_DK_Working> mclane: get a reasonble thick robe... like 2-3 cm in diameter
[19:31] <Bo_DK_Working> must be long enough to get arround tree and a person.... and person must be able to lean back a bit
[19:31] <Bo_DK_Working> and a pair of ice walk/climb boots so feet dont slip
[19:31] <craag> I should check on the CRAAG1 pico and it's up-in-the-tree status, since November.
[19:31] <Bo_DK_Working> then you slowly crawl up
[19:31] <Willdude123> Aber ich bin ein wenig gelangweilt. Ich spiele seit "Battlefield 3" den ganzen Tag in meinem Pyjama
[19:31] <Willdude123> .
[19:32] <mclane> yea, we had such kind of equipment
[19:32] <Bo_DK_Working> for every 2-3 meters you screw in a "eye" so you have protection from falling down
[19:32] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[19:32] <Bo_DK_Working> i would not be afraid of it.... planning on getting that gear myself
[19:32] <mclane> story is here:http://www.pirnay.com/index.php/en/en-home-2/blog-en/157-17-08-pysy7-mal-gewinnen-auch-die-baeume-2#
[19:33] <Bo_DK_Working> payloads can be expensive
[19:33] <craag> Bo_DK_Working: It's a common technique, but still requires strength, and is hard when there are a lot of branches.
[19:33] <Bo_DK_Working> yep...
[19:33] <Bo_DK_Working> and a faint heart is not a helper
[19:33] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[19:33] <craag> Nope!
[19:33] <mclane> problem is it is a birch, inclined by 60 degrees, brittel, payload on a thin branch, not reachable
[19:34] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm...
[19:34] <Bo_DK_Working> how thick is main part of tree?
[19:34] <Willdude123> Lunar_Lander, Die BBB ist ein schmerzen oben die Arsch
[19:35] <mclane> the main part is thick enough up to 12-15 m; but the payload is higher
[19:35] <Bo_DK_Working> Willdude123: looool
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[19:35] <Bo_DK_Working> mclane: hmm... what does payload cost?
[19:35] <Willdude123> Not bad given that I only google translated half of it.
[19:35] <Bo_DK_Working> mclane: bad it burst only 5km to low
[19:36] <Willdude123> Lunar_Lander, is that gramatically correct?
[19:36] <mclane> it was a simple one; maybe 70 EUR
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> not really but you get the sense of it
[19:36] <Bo_DK_Working> mclane: multiply with 7.5 and you have danish kroner
[19:37] <Willdude123> Trust me, you do not want do be googling "German for ass"
[19:37] <Willdude123> Been there done that.
[19:37] <Bo_DK_Working> Willdude123: many words for it if i remember correct
[19:38] <Willdude123> "Gordon Brown" is one of them
[19:38] <mclane> main loss is the work spent to prepare everything
[19:39] <Bo_DK_Working> Willdude123: prince charles another
[19:39] <mclane> and the data which I have to recover now from the fldigi og files
[19:39] <Bo_DK_Working> mclane: shame i dont live close by...
[19:40] <mclane> are you a professional tree climber?
[19:40] <mclane> ;-)
[19:41] <Bo_DK_Working> nope... just stupid enough
[19:41] <Bo_DK_Working> but not overly stupid
[19:41] <Bo_DK_Working> will take my safety rules
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[19:41] <Billabongo> ping upu
[19:42] <Bo_DK_Working> have been up a tree once in storm... think it was 5-10 cm thick....
[19:42] <Bo_DK_Working> reason why... to set up outdoor xmas lights
[19:42] <Billabongo> anyone know what the minimum voltage ublox will work on
[19:42] <Bo_DK_Working> part of tree with me was swinging at least 1 meter from center
[19:43] <Bo_DK_Working> Billabongo: 1.8
[19:43] <Bo_DK_Working> i think
[19:43] <Billabongo> oh ok thanks
[19:43] <Bo_DK_Working> look at datasheet
[19:43] <Bo_DK_Working> there are low volt versions
[19:43] <mclane> depends on the model
[19:43] <Bo_DK_Working> and 3.3 and % volt
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[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: How are you doing with your Eagle adventures? :)
[19:44] <Willdude123> I'm not really.
[19:44] <Willdude123> Had a brief look at it.
[19:44] <Willdude123> Then played bf3 for a few hours. :)
[19:44] <Bo_DK_Working> mikestir: arround??
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> Which ublox?
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, keep at it Willdude123
[19:45] <Willdude123> BF3 or eagle?
[19:45] <Bo_DK_Working> Willdude123: its fun once you learn it
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> you decide
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[19:45] <Willdude123> I lost all the BF3 matches so.
[19:45] mclane (~uli@p5B02EAB7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
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[19:47] <wrea> You should stop losing
[19:47] <wrea> :P
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> agreed
[19:47] <craag> Play on my side, then you'll never lose :P
[19:48] <Bo_DK_Working> just had a peak at prints for 26 element yagi.... i know its insane etc.... the lenght knocked me over
[19:49] <Bo_DK_Working> 6 meters :-(
[19:49] <craag> haha
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> xd!
[19:49] <craag> need some BIG servos!
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> that is enough amplification from here to Mars!
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:49] <Bo_DK_Working> but i'm going to make boom in 25 mm plastic tube
[19:49] <Bo_DK_Working> but yes still
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[19:50] <Bo_DK_Working> insane... i admit
[19:50] <Bo_DK_Working> but as with the 20 meter tree i could easy be tempted
[19:50] <Bo_DK_Working> just to do something insane
[19:51] <mickey> craag are you www.thecraag.com craag?
[19:51] <craag> mickey: I am indeed.
[19:52] <mickey> awesome, I'm trying to get a baofeng uv-r5 working with soundmodem & aprx---no joy; any suggestions?
[19:52] <Willdude123> Is it immature that I still love trolling apple online support?
[19:52] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/oI8JzDw
[19:53] <craag> mickey: WHich bit isn't working?
[19:53] <Bo_DK_Working> Willdude123: do they have support or do they just say they have ? :-D
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEByl5TU3As - quite high enough altitude.
[19:53] <mickey> Tx & I have not yet decoded one packet; however I think I should be....
[19:54] <Bo_DK_Working> Q: have anyone ever played with big servos? ie i'm looking for recommendations on what maker etc to pick
[19:54] <Bo_DK_Working> not for a 6 meter yagi thou
[19:55] <craag> mickey: Have you set up the rx sound levels in soundmodemconfig?
[19:56] <mickey> yes, I believe so; however, I am open for all suggestions. I have followed the soundmodemconfig guidelines...
[19:57] <craag> mickey: Have you looked at the eye diagram when a packet comes in?
[19:58] <Bo_DK_Working> ping mikestir
[19:58] <Bo_DK_Working> :-P
[19:58] <mickey> no
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[19:59] <craag> mickey: Or actually at the waveform, a packet coming in should fill about 2/3 of the space.
[20:01] <mickey> right now I am watching Receive Packets/Bits
[20:02] <craag> Ok, this is on a laptop?
[20:02] <mickey> switched to watching Scope in soundmodemconfig
[20:02] <mickey> actually on a Raspberry Pi
[20:02] <craag> Ah ok, USB soundcard?
[20:02] <mickey> Yes.
[20:03] <Upu> BTW that person asking what the minimum voltage was for a ublox depends which one
[20:03] <mickey> Creative Soundblaster Do!
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> Bo_DK_Working, will you fly a HAB too?
[20:03] <craag> Right the scope shouldn't clip, but you should see a tone at the start of the APRS packet.
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu :)
[20:03] <Upu> evening
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[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> how's the world?
[20:06] <mickey> Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Go! Pro USB Audio System with THX SB1290
[20:06] <craag> mickey: And this is plugged into a powered USB hub?
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[20:07] <mickey> actually no, should it be; if yes, which do you recommend?
[20:08] <craag> mickey: If it's not independently powered, yes.
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[20:08] <craag> I had issues with mine where when you tried to listen, it powered up and reset itself because it couldn't get enough current.
[20:08] <craag> And it was a tiny Sweex one, none of the THX or Pro-ness!
[20:09] <craag> Any powered usb hub will do, cheapest you can find.
[20:09] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander !
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello :)
[20:09] <chrisstubbs> This electrolube flux makes SUCH a mess, been over the board with IPA and acetone about 6 times now
[20:10] <Randomskk> get water soluble flux, be happy
[20:10] <mickey> Okay; great, that's a good next step for me...much appreciated....
[20:10] <Randomskk> or no-clean, though often that's even messier
[20:10] <Randomskk> just not technically speaking corrosive
[20:10] <Randomskk> apparently...
[20:10] <chrisstubbs> Yeah I have one of those no clean pens
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> exaporates very quicky though, oh well, on a brighter note my new board seems to be working :)
[20:11] <craag> mickey: No problem :)
[20:11] <mickey> thanks craag
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[20:11] <Bo_DK_Working> for some reason google will not vreate short links today
[20:11] mickey (4a7b14c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:11] <Bo_DK_Working> https://www.google.dk/maps?q=Odense+Universitetshospital,+Sdr.+Boulevard&hl=da&sll=55.385878,10.369275&sspn=0.010275,0.027874&oq=ouh&t=h&hq=Odense+Universitetshospital,+Sdr.+Boulevard&radius=15000&z=18
[20:12] <Bo_DK_Working> but thats my local hospital with high building in center
[20:12] <Bo_DK_Working> would be a damm nice place to listen
[20:12] <Upu> hey Bo_DK_Working
[20:12] <Bo_DK_Working> but yeah propperly a no go
[20:12] <Upu> I put your article on the front page thanks
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[20:12] <Upu> Whats Danish for Danish ?
[20:13] <Bo_DK_Working> Upu not fully translated yet
[20:13] <Bo_DK_Working> oh danish from the bakery?
[20:13] <Upu> nps its linked anyway
[20:13] <Bo_DK_Working> will do the rest before bed thou
[20:13] <Bo_DK_Working> and will translate more tomorrow
[20:13] <Upu> no rush thanks for doing it
[20:14] <iain_g4sgx> Hey Upu, when will those NTX2B's be available?
[20:14] <Randomskk> Upu: dansk?
[20:14] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: YES
[20:14] <Upu> iain_g4sgx not sure yet
[20:14] <Upu> soon(TM)
[20:14] <Bo_DK_Working> not sure what Upu meant
[20:14] <Bo_DK_Working> danish is also something you can get from bakery store
[20:14] <Upu> gong to raffle a pair off at the conference I think
[20:14] <Randomskk> though naming it after the pastry on the front page would be very fun
[20:15] <Upu> lol
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> Bo_DK_Working, he meant what is the Danish word for the Danish language
[20:15] <Upu> its ok
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. for German the word is "Deutsch"
[20:15] <Upu> updated
[20:15] <iain_g4sgx> Upu: cool thanks, let me know if any news.
[20:15] <Upu> you can continue to use existing NTX2's in the mean time
[20:15] <Upu> they are pin for pin compatible
[20:16] <iain_g4sgx> Nice, keen to start on some data modes now my payload seems to work. Need to test it though..
[20:17] <Upu> well the NTX2B out of the box won't do anything other than RTTY I think
[20:17] <Upu> I'm probably going to sell the MTX2 (small version of it) on a board with a DAC
[20:17] <iain_g4sgx> Resolution not good enough?
[20:17] <Upu> probably not
[20:17] <Upu> if your microcontroller can do 16 bit PWM
[20:18] <iain_g4sgx> If i tell it to! lol// It does have a PWM o/p but haven't checked it yet
[20:18] <mattbrejza> well the avr has 16bit timers?
[20:18] <mattbrejza> the issue is getting it to run fast enough to get a good enough SNR after filtering
[20:19] <Upu> yep AVR timer1 is 16 bit
[20:19] <Upu> I'll have a play when I get a moment
[20:19] <iain_g4sgx> I can bit-bang nearly anything i think
[20:20] <Upu> would nice not to have to use a DAC
[20:20] <Upu> btw mattbrejza you can't get the 14 bit version of that DAC
[20:20] <Upu> which is annoying
[20:20] <mattbrejza> there are 14bit DACs on farnell
[20:21] <Randomskk> the one jon used for joey comes in 14b I think. and 12 and 16.
[20:21] <Randomskk> and 24 maybe?
[20:21] <Randomskk> in the same package. it's cute.
[20:21] <Randomskk> plus got like 1Hz shifts on the micrel radio jon was using
[20:21] <mattbrejza> the issue is that upu has to actually buy it rather than get it free
[20:22] <Upu> 16 bit works perfectly but is £2.50 each
[20:22] <Upu> is=are
[20:22] <mattbrejza> also i would much prefer a spi rather than i2c one
[20:22] <mattbrejza> but thats because i hate i2c
[20:22] <Randomskk> think jons was spi
[20:22] <Randomskk> spi is much better for this task tbh
[20:22] <Randomskk> plus you can dma it properly and stuff
[20:22] <Upu> I'll keep looking at options
[20:22] <mattbrejza> you can always bitbang spi if you cba to bother to it properly if speed isnt an issue
[20:23] <Randomskk> you can dma i2c too but it feels a bit icky
[20:23] <mattbrejza> <3 DMA
[20:23] <mattbrejza> not that users of upus breakout boards use micros with dma
[20:23] <mattbrejza> dma rtty might be a bit ott
[20:23] <Randomskk> they might
[20:23] <mattbrejza> well slight generaliation
[20:23] <Randomskk> meh i'd dma rtty, makes code easier in a lot of cases anyway
[20:23] <mattbrejza> s
[20:23] <Randomskk> and timing too
[20:23] <Randomskk> well. maybe it would. in retrospect maybe timing would be a mess
[20:24] <mattbrejza> well dma is triggered by a timer?
[20:24] <mattbrejza> ISR is triggered by a timer
[20:24] <mattbrejza> no difference
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[20:24] <Randomskk> yea i guess
[20:24] <mattbrejza> can you DMA a single pin? only ever used with SPI/ADC etfc
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> google GPIO DMA pi
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:29] <mattbrejza> cheapest 14bit DAC on farnell is 2.12 which is barely an improvment on price over 16bit
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[20:41] <zyp> mattbrejza, decent GPIO blocks usually have a way to manipulate one pin without touching the others, so you just use that
[20:41] <mattbrejza> i guessed there might be a mask
[20:41] <zyp> some do masks, some do set/reset registers
[20:41] <mattbrejza> but i decided now wasnt the time to look thru a datasheet
[20:41] <zyp> it varies a bit
[20:41] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind i was just wondering rather than needing
[20:41] <zyp> on AVR you even have the toggle feature
[20:42] <zyp> if you write to PINx, the pins written to 1 will be toggled
[20:44] <mattbrejza> its annoying you cant do a single write set or clear though
[20:44] <zyp> a toggle is a single write set or clear, provided you know the previous state
[20:45] <mattbrejza> not always true
[20:45] <zyp> when is it not?
[20:45] <mattbrejza> or rather
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[20:46] <mattbrejza> ' provided you know the previous state' - not always known
[20:46] <mattbrejza> (course its always true)
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[20:46] <zyp> :)
[20:48] <zyp> the point is that you don't need to do read-modify-writes on the whole register, so you can still avoid creating race conditions against interrupts and other stuff modifying other bits in the same register
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[20:49] <zyp> void atomic_set(value, mask) { PINx = (PORTx ^ value) & mask; }
[20:49] <mattbrejza> ah guess that solves that
[20:50] <zyp> the bits not in the mask can't create races since they are not touched by the toggle
[20:50] <zyp> and PORTx xor value will give you the bits that are different between the current and the desired value, i.e. the bits that needs to be toggled :)
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[21:12] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[21:22] <Bo_DK_Working> Q: any britts arround?
[21:23] <Bo_DK_Working> looking for an online shop with big hobby servos
[21:23] <Bo_DK_Working> pref. inside EU
[21:23] <Bo_DK_Working> which includes UK
[21:23] <chris_99> have you seen hobbyking.com not sure how well it'll suit you though, but i ordered some stuff off them recently
[21:23] <chris_99> you just choose the UK warehouse
[21:24] <Bo_DK_Working> ok....
[21:24] <Bo_DK_Working> will have a peak
[21:25] <Bo_DK_Working> ZzzzzZZ i regret to use a raspberry pi as desktop...
[21:25] <Bo_DK_Working> just to darn slow
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[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
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[21:39] <S_Mark> hello Lunar_Lander
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:39] <Babs> S_Mark - evening - you are stratodean mark right?
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[21:39] <S_Mark> hi Babs yep
[21:40] <Babs> cool - nice to virtually meet you.
[21:40] <S_Mark> haha you too!
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:41] <Babs> you have a stratodean vid that has an in-vid of the balloon cam and an out-vid from the ground. what application did you use to do that?
[21:42] <S_Mark> ah yeah, the first one was done on iMovie and the second one was done on final cut pro
[21:42] <S_Mark> on the mac
[21:42] <S_Mark> the two videos I mean
[21:42] <S_Mark> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1rgpJFRp1I iMovie
[21:43] <S_Mark> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUm5X3Fq4Tw FCP
[21:43] <Babs> hmmm - i don't have a mac. is it easy to do? I want to link this http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8858583752/in/set-72157632733154985 into this http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8859148610/in/set-72157632733154985
[21:43] <Babs> ahhh. will look. thanks
[21:44] <S_Mark> yeah all it was was picture-in-picture
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> windows movie maker
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:44] <S_Mark> you can defo do it on windows, maybe even movie maker
[21:44] <S_Mark> yeah
[21:44] <S_Mark> just took ages of manually lining them up timewise
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:45] <Babs> i can see that - downloading wmm, lets see how i get on!
[21:45] <Babs> thanks!
[21:46] <S_Mark> cool yeah let me know!
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, http://s.gullipics.com/image/m/1/c/5yvgnx-ku7dpr-2wfe/Bildschirmfotovom20130818234734.png
[21:48] <S_Mark> looks good Lunar_Lander
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[21:48] <S_Mark> bet that took a while
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[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> now I first have to make footprints for the parts that are non standard to KiCAD
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[22:15] <WillTablet> Hi
[22:18] <S_Mark> hi WillTablet
[22:18] <Bo_DK_Working> Q about servos to aim a yagi....
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[22:19] <Bo_DK_Working> given that i build my yagi of 25mm plastic tube and its a 13 element one....
[22:19] <Bo_DK_Working> what torque should i aim for?
[22:19] <Bo_DK_Working> as a minimum
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[22:36] Nick change: Bo_DK_Working -> Bo_DK_Sleeping
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[22:38] <mickey> Top line shows "...UKHAS conference 7/9/13 Tickets available.]"---is my calendar way off or is that history?
[22:39] <WillTablet> No
[22:40] <WillTablet> Your calendar is way off
[22:40] Action: WillTablet sighs
[22:40] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> oh there is still a few peeps alive
[22:40] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> was about to go to bed
[22:40] <Randomskk> mickey: 7th sept 2013 >_>
[22:41] <WillTablet> In England, we use what's called a 'date system that makes sense'
[22:41] <WillTablet> In this system the order is.
[22:41] <WillTablet> The day, then the month, then the year.
[22:42] <WillTablet> Sorry if I'm speaking too quickly, but I hope you understand. Do you want me to explain again?
[22:42] <mickey> Lol not where I'm from---sorry about that...
[22:43] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> can i throw my servo Q again?
[22:43] <Randomskk> don't ask to ask
[22:44] <mickey> No, my dad is a stickler for that..yes, puhleeeeese sllllloooooowwwwllllyyyy ssppeeaakk complicated stuff like dates/times...I'm busy with my Tensor Aalysis.
[22:44] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> or Randomskkok
[22:44] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> Randomskk: ok
[22:45] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> Q was what servo i should go after to aim a yagi i build myself out of 25mm palstic tube and tig welding rods?
[22:45] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> or
[22:45] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> what is the minimum torque to aim for?
[22:45] <fsphil> your sarcasm is not subtle enough WillTablet
[22:45] <WillTablet> mickey where are you from?
[22:46] <mickey> Tennessee
[22:46] <mickey> You?
[22:46] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Sleeping: oh man. that's a little tricky to guess at.
[22:46] <WillTablet> Basingstoke
[22:46] <mickey> Cool...
[22:46] <WillTablet> That's B
[22:46] <Randomskk> you need to work out the mass, mass distribution and length of your yagi, guess some rotational velocities
[22:46] <WillTablet> A
[22:47] <WillTablet> Sorry I need to do it phonetically.
[22:47] <Randomskk> calm down WillTablet
[22:47] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> Randomskk: hehe... i know it was a long shot to ask for
[22:47] <mickey> nice size city 84,000+
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[22:48] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Sleeping: I think if you buy a standard large hobby servo, that will work
[22:48] <Randomskk> but slowly
[22:48] <WillTablet> That's Be Ay Ess Eye Enn Gee Ess Tee Oh Kay Eeh.
[22:49] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> Randomskk: have my eyes on some 10-11 kg ones
[22:49] <WillTablet> mickey let me explain to you the merits of our date system.
[22:49] <mickey> that's ok
[22:49] <mickey> I get it...
[22:49] <Randomskk> that should be way sufficent Bo_DK_Sleeping
[22:50] <WillTablet> You look at it, and you read it left to right.
[22:50] <WillTablet> It tells you the day of the month of the year.
[22:50] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> :-D
[22:50] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> its not like it has to move fast :-D
[22:50] <WillTablet> Not the month of the day of the year.
[22:50] <fsphil> nobody asked WillTablet
[22:51] <daveake> sadly nobody needs to
[22:51] <WillTablet> What do you mean?
[22:51] <daveake> Do you need it explained slowly?
[22:52] <WillTablet> No, racial profiling is stupid.
[22:52] <Randomskk> huh?
[22:52] <WillTablet> But go on.
[22:52] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> WillTablet: STOP
[22:53] <WillTablet> I know how it's spelt. :-)
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[22:54] <WillTablet> Sorry for being a pillock.
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[22:54] <WillTablet> I'm just saying, we have a better date system.
[22:54] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> WillTablet: ^^^ again STOP
[22:55] <fsphil> woo, picture transmitted through ntx2: http://i.imgur.com/zfCgiTr.jpg
[22:55] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> i know 2 other date system on top of US and EU one
[22:55] <Randomskk> yea, we should all use iso 8601
[22:55] <WillTablet> Our one is best
[22:55] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> but i dont tell about it before somebody ask
[22:55] <Randomskk> "best" WillTablet? how?
[22:55] <Randomskk> wait no, don't answer that
[22:56] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> or clam what is better than other
[22:56] <Randomskk> just stop talking about date systems
[22:56] <WillTablet> I think our prison system should conform to ISO 24601
[22:56] <fsphil> might be worth changing the topic to the iso one
[22:56] <arko> fsphil: lol
[22:56] <fsphil> just to avoid confusion
[22:56] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> GEEEEE
[22:56] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> do we have an admin arround?
[22:56] <Randomskk> iso8601 all the things
[22:56] <WillTablet> Actually, the French prisons should conform to ISO 24601.
[22:57] <Randomskk> we all got your clever les mis joke the first time
[22:57] <WillTablet> I just made it better.
[22:57] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> testing ignore in my client....
[22:57] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Sleeping: haha
[22:57] <WillTablet> Good
[22:57] <Randomskk> I always find it hard to tell when it's working
[22:57] Nick change: WillTablet -> Willdude123
[22:57] <Willdude123> Bazinga!
[22:58] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> yeee
[22:58] <Willdude123> Yeah I think I should have just left that joke as it was.
[22:58] <Bo_DK_Sleeping> works even if peep change nickname
[22:58] <Willdude123> Really.
[22:58] <fsphil> yea hostname mask works best
[22:59] <Willdude123> Yeah. Why do people ignore me?
[22:59] Action: daveake updates his ignore list
[22:59] <Willdude123> Thanks.
[22:59] Action: Willdude123 goes and cries in the corner.
[23:00] <Willdude123> daveake, you're ignoring me? :-(
[23:02] <Willdude123> Why are people ignoring me?
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[23:11] <mfa298> hmmm, should have checked what was running on that vps before hitting reboot, forgot I had screen open with a few things in it :S
[23:11] <mfa298> Willdude123: probably because the S/N ratio from you is pretty poor
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[23:22] <Willdude123> mfa298, so basically they don't care what I have to say.
[23:23] <Willdude123> Arrrggh
[23:23] <Willdude123> Geez I just wanna stab myself right now.
[23:24] <Randomskk> don't do that
[23:24] <mfa298> Willdude123: not so much they don't care, more that there is a lot of stuff they don't want to read
[23:25] <Willdude123> Uhuh so basically they won't see what I say?
[23:25] <mfa298> in other words earlier you you said 20 lines of stuff when only about 5 were of use.
[23:25] <mfa298> I gave up after looking at 20 lines
[23:26] <mfa298> if they've ignored you then they wont see what you say
[23:26] <Willdude123> Well that's crap. daveake seemed a really nice guy and I though he was willing to help me with stuff and what he does is quite interesting.
[23:26] <Willdude123> I know I'm a pillock but can't people just give me a chance to not be one?
[23:26] <mfa298> also you were given several hints to stop being stupid and continued, that tends to annoy people
[23:30] <Willdude123> OK. So I'll bugger off from this community entirely then.
[23:30] <mfa298> Willdude123: nobody said that
[23:30] <Willdude123> They pretty much did.
[23:31] <mfa298> just try to reduce the amount of verbal diarrhea
[23:32] <Willdude123> OK. People still won't un-ignore me.
[23:32] <mfa298> chances are they will after a day or two if they've ignored you
[23:33] <Willdude123> You think? OK, I won't stab myself (this time)
[23:33] <qyx_> 01:11 < mfa298> Willdude123: probably because the S/N ratio from you is pretty poor
[23:33] <qyx_> lulz
[23:33] <Willdude123> I'll try and keep things on topiv
[23:33] <Willdude123> Topci
[23:33] <Willdude123> Toic
[23:33] <Willdude123> Topi v
[23:34] <Willdude123> Topic
[23:34] <Willdude123> Damn virtual ketboard.
[23:34] <mfa298> also you don't need to correct everything, (or other people)
[23:35] <mfa298> we're generally intellgent to work out that topiv means topic.
[23:35] <Willdude123> Sorry
[23:38] <Willdude123> I still don't think he'll un-ignore me
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 19 2013