highaltitude.log.20130815

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[03:26] <nbartolomeu> Hi
[03:27] <nbartolomeu> Is someone there?
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[08:07] Action: fsphil waves back to costyn
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[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[08:10] <fsphil> *ing
[08:14] <mfa298> Morning
[08:16] <x-f> *ing
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[08:16] <daveake> Morn
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[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> I can't to fly this thing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pt1qvsd7nyjm1r8/export.png
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> can't wait*
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[08:25] <Babs> nice!
[08:26] <Babs> Morning daveake
[08:26] <daveake> Morning Babs
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> Right, off to catch a train. See you :)
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[08:31] <Babs> daveake, do you have an opinion on the following. My IMU sits there calculating away on one arduino, and I have the option of continually spitting data out at regular intervals to a second microcontroller, or doing some kind of handshake method (ie second arduino signals to first arduino that it is ready to receive data, first arduino sends data across and waits for another signal that the second arduino is ready to receive data a
[08:32] <Babs> disadvantage of the first, it can result in data coming across at the wrong times
[08:32] <Babs> disadvantage of the second, if the handshake method goes wrong for any reason, the whole thing will hang (I guess)
[08:32] <daveake> Siz of one half dozen of the other
[08:32] <daveake> Six
[08:33] <daveake> I'd go for "simple" which is the first one
[08:33] <Babs> simple suits me. and i have it working like that already.
[08:33] <Babs> thanks
[08:33] <daveake> Put a marker at the start and end of each message (e.g. like NMEA does)
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[08:36] <Ugi> Good morning good HABers
[08:37] <Ugi> I was wondering something last night as I was playing with the landing predictor:
[08:37] <Ugi> Is there a tool to show you the variation of landing position with burst height
[08:37] <Ugi> ?
[08:37] <fsphil> no, but that's an interesting thought
[08:37] <Ugi> The other week we had a balloon that would have landed in the sea if it had burst at 27k
[08:37] <Babs> daveake - how does that help? (from a lack of understanding rather than an a "HOW DOES THAT HELP?") point of view. Is it so you definitely know when you should start reading a string, and can be sure you arent getting half old and half new data?
[08:38] <Ugi> it sent to 34k and landed miles from the shore
[08:38] <Ugi> went
[08:38] <fsphil> the higher altitude winds are pushing west, so it might actually help to go up higher
[08:39] <Ugi> this is the point - it might make a critical difference if the high level winds are very different from the low altitude winds
[08:39] <daveake> Yes, that. On the assumption that you'll miss some characters due to being busy doing something else, when you're ready to listen to a message the first character you see might be halfway through a message. So you bin characters till you see the "start of message" character
[08:40] <Ugi> it might be useful to know that if you burst early then you would end up in the sea, for example
[08:40] <Ugi> might encourage you not to add that extra GoPro, or something
[08:41] <fsphil> I wouldn't fly a gopro with such ackwards winds anyway
[08:41] <fsphil> as you can't always guarantee a burst altitude
[08:41] <Ugi> Only an example.
[08:41] Action: HixWork puts fingers in ears and whistles
[08:41] <Ugi> what I meat was if you added less weight
[08:41] <Ugi> then you are less likely to burst early
[08:41] Action: HixWork and definitely thinks of anything other than losing cameras and lenses
[08:42] <Ugi> so you might take that into account
[08:42] <Ugi> if you know the landing position is very height sensitive
[08:42] <Babs> daveake - understood. Makes sense.
[08:43] <Babs> Thanks.
[08:43] <daveake> np
[08:43] <fsphil> yea the $ is handy
[08:43] <fsphil> my old nmea code cleared the buffer when it saw it
[08:45] <Babs> I will incorporate it. In the meantime, got my IMU working nicely to drive the servos. http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/9513858442/
[08:46] <Babs> needs calibrating etc. but i've got the basics going, just need a third servo now.
[08:46] <Babs> As you can see, its already taking the sleek, lightweight form of my other projects. Ahem.
[08:48] <x-f> "wireless battery", mm.. (Homer Simpson type "mm..")
[08:48] <fsphil> none of my batteries have wires
[08:51] <Babs> I was typing in the title at 1am yesterday morning, I need some latitude.
[08:51] <Babs> its communicating wirelessly, but wirelessly powered from a "not powered from the computer" perspective.
[08:52] <x-f> i understand :)
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[08:53] <Babs> Here you go x-f, especially for you http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/9513858442/
[08:55] <x-f> well thank you
[08:56] <gonzo__> at a meeting once, there was chat about charging points for electric cars, which we were involved with at one point.
[08:56] <gonzo__> someone suggested wireless charging, well I can do it with my phone/ipad/etc
[08:57] <gonzo__> there were a number of dropped jaws from the engineers
[08:57] <daveake> http://gas2.org/2013/08/13/wireless-charging-powers-south-koreas-electric-buses/
[08:59] <mfa298> next they'll suggest putting wires under all the roads so you can constantly charge the batteries. Then they'll decide induction is inefficent so you need some sort of direct contact between the vehicle and power source
[08:59] <Babs> Aren't those called trains?
[08:59] <daveake> That'd never work :)
[09:00] <gonzo__> even 15% loss is a hell of a lot of power.
[09:00] <daveake> You'd have to be off your trolley to suggest that
[09:00] <gonzo__> passing cyclists bursting into flames etc......
[09:00] <daveake> haha
[09:01] <gonzo__> actually... let;s do it!
[09:01] <gonzo__> this thread is going off the rails
[09:01] <mfa298> Suggest it to Top Gear, I'm sure clarkson would be behind that idea
[09:01] <Ugi> I like how the source of that article is credited as "wired"
[09:01] <gonzo__> what's the point(s)
[09:02] <gonzo__> it signals more puns
[09:02] <daveake> Let's keep on track here
[09:02] <gonzo__> keep rolling stock conversations
[09:03] <gonzo__> it's gone wheely quiet now
[09:04] <Ugi> the current conversation is just getting too much
[09:04] <gonzo__> I thought it was tram-endous
[09:05] <mfa298> it just needs to keep steaming ahead
[09:05] <daveake> I'm drawing a curve showing how silly this is getting.
[09:05] <daveake> It's a panto-graph
[09:06] <gonzo__> wire we bothering?
[09:09] <daveake> We've reached the end of the line
[09:09] <HixWork> I suggest you all learn how to conduct yourselves on here please
[09:10] <gonzo__> I will do so ASLEFr
[09:10] <mfa298> careful with them fighting words it could be terminal
[09:11] <HixWork> my temper is short
[09:11] <gonzo__> don't get above your station
[09:11] <HixWork> possibly due to my use of a tunnel to access this channel
[09:12] <HixWork> lets take stock of the situation
[09:12] <gonzo__> just trying to stoke the converstaion
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[09:13] <x-f> where do you get the energy for these puns?
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[09:13] <gonzo__> should we bring it to a halt?
[09:13] <gonzo__> we risk beeching the converasion
[09:13] <wb8elk> Going to fly 60 party balloons at 0200 UTC this evening.....can someone activate my flight: WB8ELK Birthday Balloon Flight Doc: 15c524740ef0c8415e0789a59c02d8fb
[09:13] <wb8elk> one balloon for each year
[09:14] <HixWork> #habhub probably best bet wb8elk
[09:14] <HixWork> Happy Birthday?
[09:14] <wb8elk> will try there and thanks.
[09:15] <wb8elk> 26th anniversary of my first HAB flight
[09:15] <HixWork> getting back on track...
[09:15] <HixWork> wow. good effort
[09:15] <gonzo__> just getting up steam
[09:16] <HixWork> looks lik ehte puns are drying up, that or there are many sleepers here today
[09:16] <gonzo__> till they all leaves
[09:16] <Ugi> We just can't take the battery of pun-posts
[09:16] <gonzo__> can't you see the a-traction ?
[09:17] <HixWork> another 40 years and it would be a catenary
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[09:24] <HixWork> ironically, look what was just posted on #hackvana http://www.alansonsample.com/publications/docs/2009%20-%20RawCon%20-%20Experimental%20Results%20with%20two%20Wireless%20Power%20Transfer%20Systems.pdf
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[09:32] <gonzo__> I recall reading about someone who was taken to court for theft, for harvestting power from a local MW b'cast station
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[09:52] <Ugi> I have often wondered about whether it's viable to steal a noticable amount of power wirelessly
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[09:52] <Ugi> I freind of mine at school lived under a pylon
[09:53] <Ugi> if he tried to grow tomatoes up his fence they would thrive
[09:53] <Ugi> unless he supported them with wires running parallel to the overhead cables
[09:54] <mfa298> I'm not sure I'd want to try, if you found you could get a decent amount of power like that you might then get paranoid about what that radiation is doing to you.
[09:54] <Randomskk> flourescent light tubes will light up near overhead wires sometimes
[09:54] <Randomskk> free lighting for your shed ;)
[09:55] <Ugi> I wish he had tried that now..
[09:55] <Randomskk> http://www.doobybrain.com/2008/02/03/electromagnetic-fields-cause-fluorescent-bulbs-to-glow/
[09:55] <Randomskk> has some pics
[09:55] <Ugi> with a lenght of wire on each end it might work better still
[09:57] <Ugi> Randomskk: that's incredible
[09:57] <Ugi> even if it's a long-exposure photo
[09:58] <Randomskk> I'm unsure how the bulbs started and I don't think they were very bright
[09:58] <Randomskk> but it is cool
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[10:01] <mattbrejza> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23699681 hmm
[10:05] <Randomskk> how on earth were all those sites on one IP
[10:05] <mattbrejza> i think it was more than one IP
[10:06] <Brace> www.radiotimes.com goes through Akamai
[10:06] <mattbrejza> i dont think these blocks apply to janet so i cant check
[10:06] <Brace> radiotimes.com goes to IPs in 96.45.82.0/24
[10:07] <mfa298> dns server maybe
[10:07] <Randomskk> aah, I wonder if they blocked akamai, that'd be great.
[10:07] <mattbrejza> but good to see that some of these blocks are going wrong
[10:07] <mattbrejza> as a sign that its all a bit silly
[10:07] <mfa298> or if it's content delivery / load balanced there could a shared addresses - although that seems odd, and makes ssl hard
[10:07] <Randomskk> and that ISPs are going "lol stuff this"
[10:07] <Brace> and firstrow.org goes to 137.72.3.164
[10:07] <Brace> so I don't get that
[10:08] <Randomskk> and then premier league has the audacity to say "we're alarmed that the ISPs are unilaterally undoing the block"!!
[10:08] <mattbrejza> how much slower is the intenret gonna be in the porn block?
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[10:08] <Brace> no shared DNS
[10:08] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind its gonna have to inspect the address of every packet?
[10:08] <Randomskk> sounds like a technical stuffup somewhere
[10:08] <Brace> and www.radiotimes.com does go through Akamai (a CDN, but you prolly know that)
[10:08] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: it'l probably just block some DNS resolution
[10:08] <Randomskk> or something else stupid and readily defeated
[10:08] <mattbrejza> making it nice and easy to et around
[10:08] <Brace> there are quite a few 'first row sports' websites out there
[10:09] <mattbrejza> the talktalk one can be avoided by google translate/image search apparently
[10:09] <fsphil> people on talktalk only have themselves to blame
[10:09] <mattbrejza> i would guess that as an ISP if you are forced to put a porn block on, youll do a 'thatll do' solution (eg DNS), rather than the effort china puts in
[10:10] <Brace> mattbrejza: yeah, it's just DNS, cause that's simple and easy to do
[10:10] <Brace> exactly
[10:10] <Brace> the 'best' way to do it, is to filter your BGP and then just route the blocked IPs elsewhere
[10:10] <mattbrejza> also the talktalk one doesnt block proxies i seem to remember reading
[10:10] <Brace> there are a couple of companies who sell solutions based on BGP filtering
[10:10] <mattbrejza> also what do you do with imgur?
[10:10] <Brace> and if you're ISP filters at that level, you're stuffed
[10:10] <Brace> unless you VPN
[10:11] <mattbrejza> BGP?
[10:12] <Brace> Border Gateway Protocol
[10:12] <Brace> it's how ISPs talk to each other basically
[10:12] <mattbrejza> oh right
[10:12] <Brace> it's the main 'internet/ISP' level routing protocol
[10:12] <mattbrejza> based on IP rather than www address?
[10:12] <Brace> based on large blocks of IPs and numbers called ASNs
[10:13] <mattbrejza> IP blocks would at least not reduce performance
[10:13] <Brace> Autonomous System Numbers which are roughly linked to one ISP
[10:14] <Brace> it's a bit more complex than that in reality
[10:14] <Brace> mattbrejza: yeah, you'd be doing it at a router level/IP level (layer 3) and routers are incredibly fast at dealing with that sort of thing
[10:14] Nick change: Bo_DK_Sleeping -> Bo_DK_Working
[10:14] <Brace> harder to get round as well
[10:14] <Bo_DK_Working> morning everyone
[10:14] <Brace> unless you have a VPN
[10:14] <mattbrejza> the porn block still needs to make thru the commons?
[10:15] <mattbrejza> but i guess theyll bundle it with something child abuse related so that noone will dare to vote against it
[10:15] <morteh> we can launch balloons that will beam porn uncensored
[10:15] <Bo_DK_Working> looooool
[10:15] <Brace> I think, the govt are still using the 'do what we say unless we will make laws to make your life difficult' tack with ISPs
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[10:16] <Bo_DK_Working> i'm in to that...... so danish porn from here :-D
[10:16] <mattbrejza> it would be good to be one of the people in charge of what gets blocked
[10:17] <mattbrejza> id block the conversative party website as not suitable for children, and see how long it takes them to see its a silyl idra
[10:18] <Brace> ahhhh
[10:19] <Brace> apparently some of this is down to EZTV adding IPs to their DNS zone
[10:19] <Brace> and some ISPs (Sky mainly) block everything in EZTVs DNS zone
[10:19] <Brace> hence it clobbering a bunch of other websites
[10:20] <Randomskk> huh
[10:20] <Randomskk> eztv being the baddies?
[10:20] <Brace> and seems like EZTV are having some fun with it, eg they've been putting Facebook IPs in their DNS, to try and get sky to block Facebook...
[10:20] <Randomskk> aah
[10:20] <Randomskk> haha that's excellent
[10:20] <Randomskk> gj eztv
[10:20] <Brace> http://torrentfreak.com/skys-court-ordered-piracy-filter-blocks-torrentfreak-130809/
[10:21] <Brace> that's from last week tho
[10:21] <Brace> guess it takes a while to filter through to BBC
[10:22] <Bo_DK_Working> Q about this filtering thing.....
[10:22] <Bo_DK_Working> they basic want to block everything that a kid should not see right?
[10:22] <bertrik> would be great if there was some kind of penalty on blocking legal sites
[10:22] <Randomskk> not just kids
[10:22] <Randomskk> bertrik: you'd hope there would be!
[10:22] <Brace> Bo_DK_Working: yeah, that's the rationale behind it
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[10:22] <Brace> 'won't some body think of the children!'
[10:23] <morteh> 'sif they can block everything
[10:23] <Bo_DK_Working> Brace: shit,,,, would be more easy to cut the internet then
[10:23] <Brace> cause it's harder to argue against then
[10:23] <Brace> you can't say 'well it restricts our freedoms as adults'
[10:24] <Brace> cause they just go 'but what about the children' and most parents are idiots who don't know what their kids do on PCs
[10:24] <Brace> and will go 'good job govt, you're protecting the kiddies'
[10:24] <ibanezmatt13> Just out of curiosity, when would a PCB with more than 2 layers be appropriate?
[10:24] <mattbrejza> but the system somehow as to simple enough for adults to use, but avoid the kids themselves fiddling with the settings
[10:24] <mattbrejza> so lets see how that works
[10:24] <Randomskk> somewhat hazy threshold but any more complicated design ibanezmatt13
[10:24] <Bo_DK_Working> ibanezmatt13 hmmmm
[10:24] <Randomskk> e.g. if you need dedicated power planes (a whole layer that's just VCC or GND)
[10:24] <Bo_DK_Working> try google itead
[10:25] <Brace> also they'll say something like 'well videos are rated anyway (PG, 15, 18 etc), so why shouldn't websites'
[10:25] <Randomskk> or FPGAs where you need to break out a lot of pins in very little space
[10:25] <Brace> interestingly enough, they don't worry about books
[10:25] <Bo_DK_Working> they do proto boards up to 6 lyers i think
[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> aah ok, thank you
[10:25] <Bo_DK_Working> layers
[10:25] <Randomskk> Brace: well it's not like kids read books :P
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[10:25] <Bo_DK_Working> can find the link
[10:25] <Randomskk> apparently the idea is to also block violent material, alcohol/smoking, forums, circumvention tools etc by default
[10:25] <Brace> yes, but teenage (and pre-teen) girls read Clan of the Cave Bear
[10:25] <Randomskk> https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2013/sleepwalking-into-censorship etc
[10:25] <Brace> and that's porn
[10:26] <Randomskk> and probably 50 shades of grey
[10:26] <Randomskk> not that I'd miss it if that were banned :P
[10:26] <Brace> infact the whole bloody book is cavemen and women having sex
[10:26] <Brace> Randomskk: yeah, apparently the list is going to include anything vaguely dodgy
[10:26] <Randomskk> terrorism material too, lol
[10:26] <Brace> including the Scunthorpe council website
[10:26] <Randomskk> have fun opting out of being blocked from terrorism material
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[10:26] <Brace> yeah
[10:27] <Brace> the IWF block list is already being massively abused by govt
[10:27] <Randomskk> "yes i want to access terrorism material... for reasons,..."
[10:27] <Brace> and companies
[10:27] <bertrik> so, is there some kind of morality police, to declare the diffenece between sinful and blessed ?
[10:27] <Randomskk> well and the existing copyright blocks
[10:27] <Randomskk> tpb etc
[10:27] <Randomskk> it's all crazy
[10:27] <Brace> can you imagine what a mess it'll be when it gets larger
[10:27] <Brace> bertrik: that's the worry
[10:27] <Brace> how the hell are they going to compile the list!
[10:28] <Bo_DK_Working> ibanezmatt13: http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html
[10:28] <Brace> several billion web pages out there
[10:28] <Randomskk> we can just use the existing stuff that auto detects adult content right ;)
[10:28] <Brace> oh yes
[10:28] <Randomskk> after all I'm pretty sure the internet can produce porn much faster than anyone can block it
[10:28] <Randomskk> worked for china
[10:28] <Laurenceb_> i dont understand why the same people who constantly moan about women being "abused" were all ready 50 stades
[10:28] <Brace> google are magically able to detect porn on a website
[10:28] <Laurenceb_> *shades
[10:28] <Brace> and can block it
[10:29] <Laurenceb_> most abusive book ever
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[10:29] <Bo_DK_Working> ibanezmatt13: 4*4cm 4 layer 10pcs 65$
[10:29] <Randomskk> Brace: and in fact they just choose not to! stupid google, encouraging child porn, etc
[10:29] <Randomskk> we are getting a bit off topic for #ha tho
[10:29] <Brace> I think that's it, the current Govt don't understand it, but are used to searching google for stuff and so think, if it's not on google
[10:29] <Brace> you can't find it....
[10:29] <Brace> yeah
[10:29] <Brace> sorry
[10:29] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: hmmm know one way to keep it on topic....
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[10:30] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm
[10:30] <mattbrejza> tbh probably best to not point out tor to DC, as then he'll try to block encryption
[10:30] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Working: haha okay you can talk about your media streaming hab system
[10:30] <Bo_DK_Working> baloons that float with a repeater.... just need a lot
[10:31] <Brace> mattbrejza: it's already law in the UK that if you use encryption, if the police ask for your encryption keys
[10:31] <Brace> you have to give them the keys
[10:31] <Brace> otherwise you can be sent to jail for not handing over the keys
[10:31] <Randomskk> or face a couple years in jail, anyway
[10:31] <mattbrejza> yea but if you use something like tor, you dont expicity deal with the keys
[10:31] <mattbrejza> (i assume)
[10:31] <mattbrejza> its like https?
[10:31] <Bo_DK_Working> Brace: how do the law take in to account that people forget?
[10:31] <Randomskk> yea it's plenty possible to set up an encryption service that you can't give yourself away with
[10:31] <Randomskk> perfect forward secrecy etc
[10:31] <Randomskk> Bo_DK_Working: it throws them in jail
[10:32] <Randomskk> unless they can prove they forgot
[10:32] <Randomskk> admittedly there's not much/no case law on this yet
[10:32] <Bo_DK_Working> Randomskk: gives them time to try think and remember
[10:32] <mattbrejza> i thought that was more to deal with encrypted files on harddrives rather than ssh like stuff
[10:32] <Randomskk> also the amount of jail time varies depending on whether they think the encrypted material is terrorism-related or not
[10:32] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: yea, it is.
[10:32] <Bo_DK_Working> anyways i'm of to thinker a bit with my auto trackerlistning platform
[10:32] <Randomskk> though with things like hidden/deniable containers...
[10:33] <Randomskk> it all gets a bit stupid
[10:33] <Bo_DK_Working> my uk boddy said to design hardware for beagle vone instead
[10:33] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:33] <Brace> mattbrejza: yeah it's for encrypted hdds really
[10:33] <Bo_DK_Working> not that big of a difference
[10:33] <Brace> but can see them asking for SSH keys as well
[10:33] <mattbrejza> thats plauseable, but not much use against tor?
[10:35] <mattbrejza> so itead do pcb population now as well
[10:35] <Bo_DK_Working> mattbrejza: not sure.... i do it myself
[10:35] <Bo_DK_Working> even smd down to 0.5mm pitch
[10:36] <Bo_DK_Working> got reflow oven too
[10:36] <mattbrejza> yea but you dont want to solder 100 pcbs
[10:36] <Bo_DK_Working> nah... or yes have been talked in to it
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[10:36] <Bo_DK_Working> my only say was i do in 10pcbs at a time
[10:36] <Bo_DK_Working> maybe 20 a day
[10:37] <mattbrejza> i dont know at what quantities getting pcbs assembled becomes cheap though
[10:38] <Bo_DK_Working> if my tracker platform turns out useable for other than myself i plan to to have a feew boards done and will make more as they go out
[10:38] <Bo_DK_Working> not going to make profit on it.. just enough to cover cost
[10:38] <mattbrejza> i decided i cba to do that, most people make their own anyway
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[10:39] <Bo_DK_Working> heheh
[10:39] <mattbrejza> you also then have to provide support
[10:39] <Bo_DK_Working> yeah... plan to do it as simple as can be... letting the electronics do most of it
[10:40] <Bo_DK_Working> dont know if you have been in at the time i have told how i picture it work?
[10:41] <mattbrejza> im not even too sure i know what youre talkinga bout :P
[10:41] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe
[10:41] <mattbrejza> apart from 'some electronics'
[10:41] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm
[10:41] <Bo_DK_Working> let me think
[10:41] <Bo_DK_Working> what i build is a platform you can slam on top of a camera tripod that:
[10:41] <Bo_DK_Working> will point a yagii at the baloon
[10:42] <Bo_DK_Working> ie you just set up the tripod... make sure its level
[10:42] <Bo_DK_Working> screw on the platform and power it up
[10:42] <Bo_DK_Working> push a button and it will start working on its own
[10:42] <Randomskk> you have to make sure it's level? :P
[10:42] <Bo_DK_Working> then you drive home and log in to it and can take over from there
[10:43] <Babs> It would be cool to build a platform that you could slam on top of a camera with a massive zoom lens and slam that on top of a camera tripod to take photos of the balloon
[10:43] <Babs> auto craag
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[10:43] <Bo_DK_Working> yep.. it must not tilt in any direction
[10:43] <mattbrejza> well antenna rotators exist but i guess theyre expensive
[10:43] <Bo_DK_Working> they are... and well... i thought it was a fun project
[10:43] <mattbrejza> btw craag the telescopes ontop of physics are for project use only (even during the day)
[10:44] <Bo_DK_Working> 2 servos is all there is need for
[10:44] <mattbrejza> but there are some others that can be used
[10:44] <Bo_DK_Working> platform has to be balanced to take as much load off the servos
[10:44] <gonzo__> you don't really need auto tracking if you are there to manually move the antennas. And if you want to install an unattended system, you want something more rugged than a camera tripod
[10:45] <Bo_DK_Working> will not be there as i dont have 360 degree free vision from my flat
[10:45] <Bo_DK_Working> the camera tripod was just a thought
[10:45] <Bo_DK_Working> i know it can tilt over etc
[10:45] <mattbrejza> i dont think a yagi is needed most of the time anyway
[10:46] <Bo_DK_Working> if you want to track from 400km's away??
[10:46] <gonzo__> cctv camera pan tilt units can be modified into quite rugged antenna mounts
[10:46] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm yes
[10:46] <gonzo__> you need to add some positional feedback (potentiometer)
[10:46] <Bo_DK_Working> not thought of that way thou
[10:47] <gonzo__> quite common.
[10:47] <Bo_DK_Working> not in DK'
[10:47] <Bo_DK_Working> but in UK i know they are everywhere
[10:47] <Bo_DK_Working> but danes are also stupid when it comes to that
[10:47] <Bo_DK_Working> ohhh we dont like to be monitored
[10:47] <Bo_DK_Working> i better like the uk logic
[10:48] <Bo_DK_Working> if you dont have anything to hide whats the issue
[10:48] <gonzo__> http://www.uhf-satcom.com/rx/
[10:48] <gonzo__> in the S band section, about half way down. There are some comnverteed pan-tilt units
[10:48] <Bo_DK_Working> on my way
[10:49] <Bo_DK_Working> using raspberry pi as desktop so a bit slow
[10:50] <Bo_DK_Working> you can even use a sat dish?
[10:50] <gonzo__> a camera pan-tilt, add soem miltiturn pots to the internal gearing and a bit of motor control (relays) and the controler board (I use LVB tracker from amsat-uk)
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> telescope mount
[10:50] <gonzo__> yagi is better for 434MHz
[10:50] <Bo_DK_Working> ok.... but about down there now
[10:51] <mfa298> Bo_DK_Working: (reading back a bit) on the very limited experience in this channel (one person) there is a concern that the Beagle Bone Black might interfere with GPS.
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meade-ETX-125-Premier-Maksutov-Fork-Assembly-/121141203829?pt=UK_Telescope_Mounts&hash=item1c34941375
[10:51] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: hmmmm
[10:52] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: thanks for the heads up
[10:52] <mfa298> With suitable seperation and/or shielding it might not be a problem.
[10:52] Action: SpeedEvil sort-of-wants to play with the BBB.
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> But I haven't bought on eyet, so I can't comment
[10:52] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: a diecast box would be my chioce if you ask...
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> ping Ugi
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> ping Upu
[10:52] <mfa298> I keep wondering about getting a BBB to play with but too many things to do on a Pi first.
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> sorru Ugi
[10:53] <HixWork> pingu
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> unping
[10:53] <HixWork> :)
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Bo_DK_Working: A bean can will work just fine
[10:54] <Bo_DK_Working> SpeedEvil: planning to make the yagii myself too...
[10:54] <Bo_DK_Working> got an idea from mike sterling on it
[10:54] <Bo_DK_Working> plastic tube and tig welding rods
[10:55] <Bo_DK_Working> just need to be very precise on the element that has antenna cable connected
[10:58] <HixWork> mfa298 seen the pcduino [don't shoot me, i didn't name it] http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/pcduino-board-p-1154.html
[10:58] Nick change: HixWork -> HixLunch
[11:02] <Bo_DK_Working> Are there any good reports if the BBB has good regulators?
[11:02] <Bo_DK_Working> the Pi was know for dumbing to much heat
[11:02] <mfa298> There's a pretty good system manual for the BBB which tells you about a lot of that stuff
[11:03] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[11:03] <mattbrejza> should just be a case of seeing if its linear or not
[11:03] <Bo_DK_Working> will try and have a look
[11:03] <Bo_DK_Working> i added reg's for both 3.3 and 5 Volt
[11:04] <Bo_DK_Working> but that was until i was told the BBB would be better suited as it has more power for processing than the pi
[11:04] <mfa298> From memeory there are two 3v3 regulators which can each supply 400mA which are used for the system and addons. And there are several ways to provide 5V to the BBB
[11:05] <mattbrejza> why does something that controls a couple of servos need lots of processing power?
[11:05] <Bo_DK_Working> for the SDR
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[11:05] <mattbrejza> oh right
[11:05] <Bo_DK_Working> it will have a dongle
[11:05] <mfa298> From memory BBB has a bit more CPU (1GHz rather than 800MHz) and some onboard flash although I'm not sure the GPU side is as good. But then the Pi GPU is covered by various NDAs there doesn't seem to be much useful stuff out there for it yet
[11:06] <Bo_DK_Working> gpu no problem as there will be no screen
[11:06] <mattbrejza> i reckon you could easily get a SDR+rtty demod on the pi, just i cba to do it :P
[11:06] <mattbrejza> and i have no need
[11:06] <Bo_DK_Working> it will also have a 3g dongle
[11:06] <Bo_DK_Working> so much of the work will be done at the tracker
[11:06] <Bo_DK_Working> from home i can just fine tune freq etc
[11:07] <Bo_DK_Working> what is common used here to share files?
[11:07] <mattbrejza> oh it streams the ayudio?
[11:08] <Bo_DK_Working> yep thats the plan... but only if you opt to
[11:08] <mattbrejza> dropbox
[11:08] <mattbrejza> so it does have to decode as well
[11:08] <Bo_DK_Working> yep... the SDR+DVB-T dongle
[11:08] <Bo_DK_Working> it will also link up with track server
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[11:09] <Bo_DK_Working> stream is for the fine tune part
[11:09] <Joel_re> hey, i know this might be ambigious question, but since Im not a HAM operator
[11:09] <mattbrejza> do you intend to write anything for it? im not sure anyones got SDR+fldigi to run
[11:09] <Bo_DK_Working> it can be turned on at will
[11:09] <Joel_re> and the 433Mhz range isn't open
[11:10] <Joel_re> what are the consequences of launching a balloon that transmits on the freq
[11:10] <Bo_DK_Working> no fldigi....
[11:10] <mattbrejza> Joel_re: youre region 3?
[11:10] <Bo_DK_Working> but mike sterling has something in the works
[11:10] <Joel_re> mattbrejza: Im in India
[11:10] <mattbrejza> so yea
[11:10] <mattbrejza> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
[11:10] <Joel_re> 10mw shouldnt be tht bad
[11:11] <Bo_DK_Working> the option to turn off stream is to not load the 3g card to much
[11:11] <Bo_DK_Working> ok... will just look over my schematics and load it to dropbox... dont cry to much
[11:12] <mattbrejza> we're not gonna suggest you break your laws, and we dont know what will happen if youre caught etc Joel_re
[11:12] <mattbrejza> but it seems no ISM bands between 40MHz and 2.4GHx
[11:12] <mattbrejza> z
[11:12] <mattbrejza> none of which are ideal
[11:12] <Joel_re> ok, I get the idea
[11:12] <Joel_re> yeah
[11:13] <mattbrejza> having said that, aus which is also region 3 seems to have 434 ISM
[11:14] <Bo_DK_Working> q: what is it that makes the camera tripod not the ideal chioce?
[11:15] <Bo_DK_Working> it tilts to easy etc?
[11:17] <Joel_re> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amateur_radio_frequency_bands_in_India#Grade_II_Restricted_.28Migrated_to_Restricted_Grade_since_13_August_2013.29
[11:17] <Joel_re> probably not the best site
[11:17] <Joel_re> but we do have 434
[11:20] <mattbrejza> so you could get a liscence
[11:22] <Bo_DK_Working> http:www.dropbox.com/s/446k09vzkhifqso/hab.sch
[11:22] <Bo_DK_Working> that what i got so far
[11:23] <Bo_DK_Working> appreantly missing are ant connector to gps module
[11:23] <Bo_DK_Working> and connections to BBB headers
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[11:24] <Bo_DK_Working> i added 4 servos
[11:24] <Bo_DK_Working> 2 for moving yagi
[11:24] <Bo_DK_Working> and 2 for a solar panel... but might drop the last 2
[11:24] <Bo_DK_Working> the tracker will have a solar panel
[11:24] <Bo_DK_Working> to charge battery
[11:25] <Bo_DK_Working> some say just point south... some say you can gain about 20% solar time with tracking the sun
[11:26] <gonzo__> big servos!
[11:27] <Bo_DK_Working> yes...plus
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[11:27] <Bo_DK_Working> the platform has to be balanced out to off load as much wheight as possible
[11:28] <Bo_DK_Working> brb for 5-10 mins
[11:30] <gonzo__> should always balance the antennas. Unless you are trying to preload to take out backlash
[11:31] <mattbrejza> i dont think SDR + flidgi will run on a rpi/BBB as they are though
[11:32] <mfa298> I think mikestir is hoping that his websdr will be able to work on the pi with the rtl-sdr and also have decoders built in.
[11:33] <mfa298> although at present it needs a bit more cpu than the pi provides.
[11:33] <mattbrejza> is he doing his own decoder?
[11:33] <mfa298> this is what he's published so far http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio
[11:34] <mfa298> websdr using an rtl dongle written in C++
[11:37] <Babs> found a brushless motor and instruction manual for my gimbal. Only one snag http://www.iflight-rc.com/upload/2013-04-13/20130413013538160.pdf
[11:39] <mattbrejza> ah just the radio bit so far though
[11:39] <mattbrejza> (good start)
[11:39] <mfa298> I keep meaning to setup a vm to try it out on so it can have a bit more cpu power.
[11:40] <mfa298> I've also got a selection of rtl dongles on route from china so I can have a couple of tuners. Shame I don't have a good antenna location or good upstream on the adsl to provide a public websdr
[11:40] <mattbrejza> might the SDR part probably uses more cpu than it needs to for just a RTTY decoder
[11:41] <mattbrejza> all you need is 4 multiplications at 1MSPS, CIC filter and then rtty modem
[11:42] <mattbrejza> if the rtty decoder is server side that reduces the uplink requirement a bit at least
[11:42] <mfa298> sdr on the pi seems like it's do-able - the rtl_fm app seems to work ok although I've not had much success with SSB yet (works fine for broadcast fm)
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[11:43] <mfa298> having a pi based rtty decoder that just requires network link and rtl-sdr would be nice and could be useful for the habbers in places with fewer listeners.
[11:43] <Bo_DK_Working> mfa298: that is why he told me to redesign for BBB
[11:44] Nick change: HixLunch -> HixWork
[11:45] <HixWork> dunno what you're complaining about Babs, it's crystal clear isn't it?
[11:48] <mattbrejza> Babs: i understood one word
[11:48] <Babs> i saw that too mattbrejza.
[11:49] <HixWork> Babs it links to this http://brushlessgimbal.de/forum/
[11:52] <Babs> thanks - everyone with a brushless motor appears to then rewind it. that and other mysteries I need to get to the bottom of. As they look funky though, I have decided to use them.
[12:02] <HixWork> BRC Hobbies could be worth a call Babs they are very knowledgable on Electric Flight [they did a cross channel RC flight a few years back]
[12:02] <HixWork> http://www.brchobbies.co.uk/?page=home
[12:03] <Babs> thanks hixwork. as far as I can work out driving the things forward or back is relatively simple, positional control to mimic a servo is a little more complex.
[12:03] <Babs> i'll get it working with a servo first and go from there
[12:05] <HixWork> I reckon [wets finger, sticks it in the air] if the IMU was on the platform with the camera, then it would be a case of send pulse until attitude is correct and repeat
[12:06] <Babs> good point. that was actually how i was going to drive the yaw aspect of it, but it makes sense for the other two angles now you put it like that.
[12:06] <Babs> now i feel stoopid.
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[12:09] <HixWork> my wet finger is a very accurately calibrated tool you know Babs :D
[12:10] <Babs> i don't know and do not want to know.
[12:10] <Babs> have you used a brushless motor?
[12:10] Action: daveake shudders to think what it's calibrated for
[12:11] <Babs> I'll just wave rather than shaking hands at the conf
[12:12] <HixWork> I've used them for RC Flight. Dont worry guys, I only use that finger for precise scientific calculations.
[12:14] <HixWork> One of my other tools, as I have just effectively utilised in the office, is brute force and ignorance in a combined package
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Rewindingbrishless motors is basically pointless - unless you either can add more copper volume - or you can't manage to supply the required voltage.
[12:15] <mfa298> A lump hammer helps with the Brute force and ignorance approach.
[12:16] <Babs> presumably with the RC flight you use them for prop only? I'm wondering whether anyone has used one with an arduino and positional control, and therefore whether a suitable one of power etc. has been found
[12:16] <Babs> although thinking about it, those mini segways that are all over kickstarter should have ones which are suitable.
[12:16] <Babs> *looks in kickstarter*
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[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Babs: In principle - their torque should be approximately flat from 0-near max RPM per current.
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[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Babs: In practice - as P=I^2R - you don't want to run them at max current for very long at all without aggressive cooling.
[12:20] <Babs> SpeedEvil - as in whatever size motor i use, if the load to be shifted is the same, the power used will be the same?
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> But rewinding doesn't impoact this at all - it just means that you can apply 12V, not 1V
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> No
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> Per motor.
[12:20] <Babs> sorry, i think thats what i meant.
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Torque per unit current is closely related to 'KV' - the motor constant.
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> You can work out the torque at max power quite easily.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Imagine a motor with a bar radially that the end of which describes a 1m circumference circle.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> If it does 6000RPM, then that's 100 revs/second.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Or 100m/s.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> If it is 100W - then F=MA - then the force at the end of that bar is one newton.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> So you have 100newton meters = 100W.
[12:23] <HixWork> http://www.simplebgc.com/eng/mechanics/Majk_Jednakovic/
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> Then it gets annoying as you actually have a torque of Pi newton meters.
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> So, at max current - you will have that torque - though the voltage may be lots lower near stall.
[12:24] <mattbrejza> so people rewind rather than designing high current low voltage driving circuits?
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> And you will have approximately the same losses as it would at 6000RPM
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Hence you need massive fans
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> You can't rewind the above motor with a max output of 100W at 6000RPM - and get 100W at 600RPM.
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> 10W - yes.
[12:25] <Babs> SpeedEvil - this is going to be tiny power I would guess. Small adjustments only (albeit quite frequent), over a fairly small radius
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> It's all to do with the energy stored in the magnets.
[12:27] <Babs> this kind of thing looks suitable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH2dY3IRhY4
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> Not really directly
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Not if you're using it for positional control, ratehr than revolving
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> That is - I assume without checking up in depth - just using the arduino to create a PWM signal which goes to the ESC which thinks 'Oh - throttle 15%, I should go this fast'
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> It can't do more than that
[12:29] <Babs> I don't think i need positional control, just to rotate until it is aligned with each of the IMU's readings and then stop.
[12:29] <Babs> the adjustment will be how quickly i need it to get there
[12:29] <HixWork> that's probably going to take macroscopic amounts of time
[12:29] <Babs> macro or micro?
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> I question if that'll work at all with a commodity ESC
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Babs: Is this intended to be an ungeared gimbal?
[12:30] Action: SpeedEvil should read backscroll
[12:30] <HixWork> unless you can get it turning very slowly, but I believe that'll lead to massive heat build up
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Work out the torque you need for the gimbal.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Now, find a (probably lowish RPM design) of brushless motor, with a torque of at least 5* your average required torque
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> The 5* means you'll be running it at 1/25th power dissipation in the coils, which may limit the airflow needed to sensible levels
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> You will likely need to make your own microstepping controller - unless you can find one
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[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[12:33] <Babs> it has to be able to be done (although clearly as yet i don't know how without reading up) as these guys already have
[12:33] <Babs> http://www.freeflysystems.com/media/videos.php
[12:33] <Babs> its the movi one
[12:33] <Babs> runs on brushless motors
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, how much would the postage be for one atmega328p-au (tqfp) ?
[12:34] <Babs> thanks SpeedEvil, thats a useful guide
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[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Please note - the above is entirely off the top of my head.
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> But those motors do in normal use require a lot of cooling.
[12:37] <IRC_ukhas> Hello again
[12:37] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[12:37] <astrobiologist> Hello again
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> And unless you're going to replace it with massive, massive fans (with obvious issues at high altitude) - you're not going to get the nameplate torque out
[12:37] <astrobiologist> I am still working on my audio breakout cabling
[12:38] <astrobiologist> Looking at the mic side now
[12:38] <astrobiologist> Typically a mic has signal on the tip, then a 5v or 3.5v ring, then the sleeve as ground
[12:39] <astrobiologist> Often the signal and voltage are joined
[12:39] <astrobiologist> And the mic has an impedance of whatever
[12:39] <astrobiologist> In my case, 2200 ohms
[12:40] <astrobiologist> If I try to feed audio into the mic socket do I need to have a similar impedance?
[12:41] <astrobiologist> I'd prefer to isolate the two ends of the cable, for instance with an audio transformer
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[12:42] <astrobiologist> But then... Aren't I just shorting out the mic side?
[12:42] <astrobiologist> The signal and mic side voltage would just short through the transformer to ground?
[12:46] <mfa298> impedance may not matter too much for this sort of audio setup.
[12:46] <mattbrejza> to make sure you dont blow a audio input just use a potential divider on the cable
[12:47] <mattbrejza> the transformer means theyre isolated but it still 'lets a voltage pass through'
[12:47] <mfa298> most of the audio stuff I've seen tends to just work on the principle of things being high impedance or low impedance without always defining what impedance it is.
[12:47] <mattbrejza> you use transformers to change voltage, impedance, or when two sides of the circuit dont/cant have a common ground
[12:47] <mattbrejza> the latter part being the isolation part of a transformer
[12:48] <mattbrejza> you have transformers on (eg) ethernet as the two devices at each end might have a completely different 0V
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[12:51] <astrobiologist> The mic socket always provides its own voltage, and some fraction of this gets passed back by the microphone depending on how loud you are talking?
[12:51] <mattbrejza> you mean for example the mic in on an ipad?
[12:52] <mattbrejza> or pc
[12:52] <mattbrejza> etc
[12:52] <mfa298> The voltage supply is going to be there for certain types of mic element (the ones used in most pc mics)
[12:52] <astrobiologist> From my research, most soundcards, for instance, go tip signal, 1st ring voltage, sleeve ground
[12:52] <mattbrejza> hmm cant say ive really noticed that
[12:53] <astrobiologist> And most microphones combine the first two anyway, i.e tip and ring are connected through the mic to ground
[12:53] <astrobiologist> The kenwood rig I'm considering is tip voltage, 1st ring signal, sleeve ground
[12:53] <mattbrejza> the desk mic i have just has two connections, gnd and mic, where the tip is signal and the rest gnd
[12:53] <astrobiologist> So essentially the same
[12:53] <mattbrejza> so that would short the voltage youre refering too
[12:54] <mfa298> the 5v supply on ring is what I've seen before, which should mean a dynamic mic (which doesn't need power) with a mono connector won't see any power
[12:54] <mattbrejza> i think youll find a pc/tablet wont supply 5V on mic (offen is combined with stereo line in), but the rig might be different
[12:55] <mattbrejza> just make up the cable for whatever the rig says its pinout is
[12:55] <astrobiologist> The rig gives 3.5v
[12:56] <mattbrejza> which you dont need
[12:56] <mfa298> I'd also guess would be that a tablet/phone with the 4 pin 3.5mm doesn't supply power (or if it does it will be on the mic signal pin so a decoupling cap would fix that)
[12:58] <astrobiologist> So... Let's suppose I plug a 2.5mm mono jack in. The jack would contact both the signal and volts. But if I connected that to an isolation transformer, it wouldhave no impedance, and the full 3.5v would go back to the ground sleeve, no.
[12:58] <mattbrejza> got a link to this radio's manual?
[12:58] <mattbrejza> (dont bother with a transformer)
[12:59] <mattbrejza> but you can always ac couple to answer the question
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[13:00] <astrobiologist> http://manual.kenwood.com/files/TH-F6_F7-English.pdf
[13:00] <mattbrejza> pg?
[13:01] <astrobiologist> I was more worried about protecting my iPad, hence the transformer
[13:01] <mattbrejza> as i explained a transformer wont do anything
[13:01] <gonzo__> just put a decoupling cap in series with the line in to the ipad
[13:02] <gonzo__> ah, what mattbrejza said
[13:02] <mattbrejza> also that radio layout is really weird
[13:03] <mattbrejza> you have to gnd the mic thru the speaker connector
[13:03] <mattbrejza> but yea dont connect 3.5V
[13:03] <astrobiologist> Speaker is o.k
[13:03] <mattbrejza> and use a resistor divider to limit the levels from the radio
[13:03] <gonzo__> that';s quite common these days
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[13:04] <gonzo__> the cheak KH radios i have also use the sleeve of the mic connector for signals and the spkr jack sleeve as the only gnd
[13:04] <gonzo__> cheap
[13:05] <astrobiologist> Speaker tip, sleeve etc close enough to normal though 2.5mm, so everything should go to the right place if plug into my iphone's mic (through a cable splitter)
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[13:06] <astrobiologist> But ipad headphone to rig mic has me confused!
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[13:06] <mattbrejza> what part of it?
[13:07] <mattbrejza> ignore the PTT and 3.5V
[13:07] <mattbrejza> dont connect
[13:07] <astrobiologist> So I need custom cable, needs to be stereo 3.5mm
[13:07] <astrobiologist> Don't connect tip (3.5v)
[13:07] <mattbrejza> yea the whole lot needs to be custom as you need to use the gnd on the SP out
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[13:07] <mattbrejza> and if you want to protect the ipad ull need a resistor divider
[13:08] <astrobiologist> :-o
[13:08] <mattbrejza> the damage to the ipad will come from if the SP out levels are more than the ipad mic in expects
[13:08] <astrobiologist> Getting confused
[13:08] <mfa298> assuming the e-manual is the same as the paper one the diagrams looked pretty decent to show you what's where
[13:08] <astrobiologist> Any magic box I can put in between?
[13:08] <WillTablet> Just been looking through old logs of this channel, I asked if the Pi would be a suitable tracker and everyone was like no don't be silly.
[13:09] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist: magic box: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Resistor_cropped.jpg/250px-Resistor_cropped.jpg
[13:09] <mfa298> WillTablet: the earlier conversation is about a ground based tracker (plugging in an sdr rx and rtty decoder) which at present isn't possible
[13:09] <mattbrejza> WillTablet: just because the pi is silly doesnt make the BBB better
[13:09] <mattbrejza> oh that one
[13:09] <mattbrejza> nm
[13:10] <WillTablet> Never said it did.
[13:10] <mattbrejza> yea i thought you ment something else
[13:10] <WillTablet> mfa which earlier convo?
[13:11] <mfa298> a couple of hours ago with Bo_DK (if that's the one you were looking at)
[13:12] <mfa298> ah sorry, I realised you were talking about when you asked several months ago
[13:13] <WillTablet> Not sure what to do to prevent interference.
[13:13] <WillTablet> I am thinking, is there some way I can put the Antenna very far from the gps?
[13:14] <mfa298> altough tbh for a plain rtty tracker the Pi/BBB are both pretty overpowered.
[13:14] <mfa298> That said my first payload might be Pi based (but I plan to have geotagged images and potentially ssdv and playing with some other stuff)
[13:15] <mfa298> with an active antenn you can move it away from the gps module.
[13:15] <WillTablet> I could design a board with a ublox and <insert popular GPS antenna connector here>
[13:15] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist: http://i.imgur.com/QQTUV52.png
[13:15] <mfa298> or run the ublox on some wires so it's seperate from the BBB
[13:15] <WillTablet> Hmm will talk to Upu about antennas, given that he makes the breakout board.
[13:15] <WillTablet> Then there's more to go wromg
[13:16] <x-f> WillTablet, have you tried shielding the BBB first? (putting it in a can, for example, as someone suggested yesterday)
[13:16] <WillTablet> No, I'll try that at some point.
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[13:16] <mfa298> Adding some shielding between the BBB and GPS module should help cut down interference
[13:17] <mfa298> just keep the ublox antenna away from metal shielding (a couple of wavelengths should be more than enough)
[13:17] <WillTablet> Yes
[13:18] <mfa298> that level of seperation might be fine on it's own anyway.
[13:18] <astrobiologist> Thank you Matt. But doesn't the mic sleeve need to be connected?
[13:19] <mfa298> astrobiologist: with the F7E the 3.5mm sleve looks to be ptt (from memory) so don't need that with VOX
[13:19] <mfa298> the ground is on the 2.5mm sleve
[13:19] <mattbrejza> well sleeve is PPT
[13:20] <mattbrejza> (how does this ipad app manage PPT btw?)
[13:20] <mfa298> mattbrejza: Powerpoint ? (I assume you meant PTT)
[13:20] <HixWork> WillTablet you can just get one of UPUs breakout boards with a MAX6/7 on it and instead of attaching the sarantel to it, Solder and end launch SMA to it, you can then use an external Antenna on an SMA lead. Simples and proven
[13:20] <mattbrejza> lol whoops
[13:20] <mattbrejza> pc software uses a serial port
[13:20] <astrobiologist> It relies on the rig having VOX
[13:20] <mattbrejza> which at last check there isnt a 9 pib dsub on an ipad
[13:21] <mattbrejza> oh, so you dont need to owrry then
[13:22] <WillTablet> Yesh
[13:23] <WillTablet> Not using a sarantel
[13:23] <mfa298> with an external gps antenna you probably want an active one so might need a couple of extra components for that
[13:24] <WillTablet> Why is there interference?
[13:25] <HixWork> without looking at the specsheet, isn't it just a jumper wire for ANT power that needs adding to the MAX [or does it need a filter]
[13:25] <mattbrejza> you might find that a combined LNA+SAW might solve it, but it is a reasonable amount of effort
[13:25] <HixWork> yup them
[13:25] <mfa298> electronic devices cause interference especially those switching quickly (like a cpu)
[13:25] <astrobiologist> O.k, audio transformer doesn't help me in this case, but in general if I accidentally put 100v DC on one side the other side would
[13:25] <astrobiologist> be protected... Yes?
[13:26] <astrobiologist> Because no physical connection? But 100v AC a different story obviously!
[13:26] <mattbrejza> if you put a 100V step input to a transformer you would still get some voltage on the other for short period of time
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[13:32] <astrobiologist> Audio optoisolator would do it, but whatever I do I need to get my soldering iron for this one because of need for mic to go to speaker ground sleeve... Etc
[13:33] <mfa298> there's always a chance you'll find someone selling something suitable on ebay. Although for most radios you'll want to make up some sort of interface cable.
[13:33] <mfa298> this one is probably going to be a lot nicer than trying to solder to a 13pin din.
[13:35] <astrobiologist> Any chance of a high audio level on the ipad damaging the mic on the rig?
[13:35] <mattbrejza> well the change is >0%
[13:35] <mattbrejza> chance*
[13:36] <mattbrejza> i guess it wont hurt to put a potential divider going the other direction too
[13:37] <mfa298> If someone buys me an iPad I'll test - although I think the chances are low of doing damage feeding line level into a mic input. It's more likely you'll just overdrive the audio levels so have lots of distortion
[13:38] <mfa298> I've fed a fixed line level into the mic input on my laptop and as long as the gain level in windows is low it's fine.
[13:39] <mfa298> although the laptop might be working in a more special way as there's no line input available so it might have a wider tolerance
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[13:39] Nick change: highaltitude -> chrisstubbs
[13:40] <chrisstubbs> ^whoops
[13:40] <chrisstubbs> I wondered why there was nobody in #chrisstubbs
[13:40] <daveake> lol
[13:40] <UpuWork> lol
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> I don't think that's an appropriate # channel - unless you're an open-source project.
[13:41] Action: mfa298 wonders how many people have now joined #chrisstubbs
[13:41] <chrisstubbs> daveake: did you see you were featured in that "i" newspaper the other week?
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[13:42] <daveake> independent?
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> There is a magazine with the title 'i'
[13:42] <chrisstubbs> Errr yeah, i think they do tabloidy one
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=270129164
[13:43] <chrisstubbs> got a snipping at home, will have to take a pic tonight
[13:43] <daveake> Didn't know it was in there. I knew it was on their web site
[13:43] <chrisstubbs> apparently you launched a Pi with a unmanned hot air balloon
[13:43] <daveake> He made so many mistakes I didn't bother checking
[13:43] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[13:43] <Babs> struggling to keep tabs on ones own fame. I like it daveake.
[13:43] <daveake> I know
[13:43] <Babs> You are like the gwyneth paltrow of habbing.
[13:43] <daveake> He got my name wrong too
[13:43] <chrisstubbs> Oh I didnt pick up on that
[13:44] <Babs> to be fair, it is difficult to know anyone's correct name on here
[13:44] <daveake> Well since my web site domain name is my name, and he got that bit right ....
[13:44] <Babs> i met arko in LA and we both had to introduce our correct names as it was ridiculous to sit in a bar and call each other arko and babs
[13:45] <mattbrejza> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/life-with-pi-the-raspberry-pi-costs-just-32-but-can-do-just-about-anything--if-you-put-the-hours-in-8750923.html?origin=internalSearch
[13:45] <mattbrejza> he gets it right and wrong :/
[13:45] <daveake> Took me ages not to call Upu Upu to his face
[13:45] <daveake> mattbrejza Yeah I told him he's got it wrong, so he fixed the first mention and left all the others
[13:45] <daveake> I gave up after that
[13:46] <mattbrejza> hmm :/
[13:46] <Babs> airpi sounds very close to b
[13:46] <daveake> That article was the result of a 30-min phone interview
[13:46] <daveake> Waste of time basically
[13:46] <Babs> airpi sounds very close to being something i wouldnt be allowed to say in front of my mother
[13:47] <Babs> how does one say upu anyway? arko though "upooo". I thought "up you".
[13:47] <mattbrejza> id go for upooo
[13:48] <mattbrejza> although feel free to c all him upyou at the conference
[13:48] <HixWork> Yew Phho
[13:48] <HixWork> oh dear that was a bit vietnamese
[13:49] <HixWork> Babs, are you going to speak like Barbara Windsor at the conf?
[13:49] <mfa298> isn't it actually pronounced something like Wep (being part of Wepwawet == Upuaut)
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> Isn't 'does he have a couple of small balloons of the appropriate size' a more appropriate question HixWork?
[13:50] <Babs> I speak like Barbara Windsor anyway HixWork, I'm not going to change things for you boys.
[13:50] <Babs> Actually I speak more like Ron Weasley's Dad thanks to my Wolverhampton heritage.
[13:50] <daveake> Get aahhhhhhhhttt o' my conf
[13:50] <Babs> you slaaaaaag
[13:50] <HixWork> good effort, are you going to sling people aaaaht the pab afterwards
[13:51] <HixWork> BaggyBabs is a more apt handle then, surely
[13:51] <Babs> Baggy is Manchester you fool.
[13:51] <Babs> They are 100 miles away.
[13:51] <Babs> Are you a southerner HixWork?
[13:52] <HixWork> damn, got it confuzzled with West Brom
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[13:53] <HixWork> I am neither Babs, I'm from Rugby so pretty much on the demarkation line
[13:54] <Babs> HixWork, confusing West Brom with Wolverhampton is not helping matters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Country_derby
[13:54] <HixWork> excellent. My work here is done
[13:55] <mattbrejza> is 'black country' from all the coal?
[13:55] <WillTablet> mattbrejza Upyou sounds scouse
[13:55] <HixWork> I have also just "inherited" a monitor for my desk so now have 1 and a half [it's 4:3]
[13:56] <HixWork> think its the general outlook mattbrejza
[13:56] <WillTablet> Well, I guess it depends on how Upuaut was pronounced.
[13:56] <HixWork> WillTablet (14:49:33)<mfa298>isn't it actually pronounced something like Wep (being part of Wepwawet == Upuaut)
[13:57] <HixWork> Upus real real name is Rudolf Gantenbrink
[13:57] <mattbrejza> i hope hes muted his irc client
[13:58] <WillTablet> It's Anthony stirk
[13:58] <HixWork> and apparently his project resulted in "the finding of a "sealed block" at the end of the shaft."
[13:58] <WillTablet> It took me ages to figure out what daveake's actual name was. I think it might be dave
[13:58] <WillTablet> Not sure.
[13:59] <chrisstubbs> Nobody knows mine
[13:59] <WillTablet> HixWork that's what she said
[13:59] <WillTablet> No
[13:59] <WillTablet> What is it?
[13:59] <HixWork> Its Daveak Erman
[13:59] <Babs> chrisstubbs - heh
[14:00] <HixWork> Whats your real name Chris. oh, damnit, sorry. Cats outta the bag now eh
[14:00] <WillTablet> Bet nobody knows my full name.
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[14:00] <mattbrejza> dover
[14:00] <HixWork> Willdude4560w254556569999825446675722444-Joined-Left-Joined
[14:00] <WillTablet> How'd'ya guess?
[14:00] <mattbrejza> remembered from the 'is your middle name ben' thing a while ago
[14:01] <WillTablet> I wonder who has the shortest ping here.
[14:01] <HixWork> and the fact that you linked to a YouTube vid with it on
[14:02] <mattbrejza> ping between what?
[14:02] <gonzo__> wonder how a-nonny-mouse I am?
[14:02] <WillTablet> Oh yeah that one, that was awful
[14:02] <WillTablet> Me and their irc client
[14:02] <WillTablet> Yeah, I still get bullied about that video
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[14:03] <x-f> gonzo__, yes, Jules, how anonymous are you :)
[14:03] <gonzo__> it doesn't take much!
[14:03] <HixWork> I don't exist in real life
[14:04] Action: mfa298 searches google maps for a 3m dish
[14:04] <gonzo__> hehe, that's difficult amongs all the tramploines in gardens
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[14:05] <mattbrejza> pfft WillTablet your ping is terrible
[14:06] <WillTablet> Not bad
[14:06] <mattbrejza> well you are pinging a server in a datacentre somewhere
[14:07] <WillTablet> I propose people actually ping each other when they want to talk.
[14:07] <mattbrejza> assuming your client makes you aware of it
[14:10] <gonzo__> the google maps of my area are so old that not even the trampolines are there
[14:10] <gonzo__> the old multimaps are bettre from some angles
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[14:14] <HixWork> never did find his real name either
[14:16] <Babs> ooo. nice. http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/3d-printed-brushless-gimbal-for-gopro.
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[14:21] <HixWork> dead Babs
[14:22] <HixWork> weird http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/3d-printed-brushless-gimbal-for-gopro
[14:22] <HixWork> ahh full stop
[14:23] <HixWork> I have a GoPro in Catia if you want an export file Babs
[14:24] <Babs> What is Catia?
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[14:33] <HixWork> Full-Fat CAD Babs
[14:33] <HixWork> though I think you can import STEP or IGS into Sketchup
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[14:35] <HixWork> no, you cant. arse. You can have catia at the conf though.
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[14:41] <ibanezmatt13> Still planned for the 25th daveake?
[14:42] <daveake> yup
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> dual?
[14:42] <daveake> 2 payloads, yes
[14:42] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[14:43] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking forward to flying a light weight with this thing when it arrives http://gerblook.org/pcb/tZZETGUagK8LFddBo8zCie#front
[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> It'd probably make sense to fly that on a foil balloon actually
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[14:47] <WillTablet> Why the 'harmless scientific experiment' on the back? Surely that goes on the box.
[14:48] <mfa298> There's no harm putting it in multiple places.
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[14:48] <mfa298> and for a foil balloon there might not be much box to write it on.
[14:49] <WillTablet> Suppose, could have the opposite effect though
[14:49] <mfa298> If someone is that paranoid they probably won't get close enough to the payload to see any notice like that
[14:52] <Babs> ibanezmatt has done well. I like it
[14:53] <mattbrejza> so hes sent off his second before the first ahs already arrived...
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[14:55] <Babs> near orbit as well. aiming high. literally.
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[15:18] <Joel_re> do you guys hook antennas to the onboard gsm module?
[15:18] <Joel_re> oops I was scrolled up
[15:18] <Joel_re> but yeah
[15:20] <mfa298> I don't think many people fly gsm modules as they're not that useful
[15:22] <mfa298> gsm won't get a signal above a few km up, chances are the gps in a gsm device will stop working at 18km (and may not recover) and you might not be in a good signal area when it lands (phone reception at ground level will be worse than pocket / ear level)
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[15:24] <Ugi> I would appreciate your collective opinion on this listing, I have just stumbled upon: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261259961428
[15:24] <Ugi> On that basis that USB is a digital signal, WTF difference can it make?
[15:25] <mfa298> some people are gullible
[15:25] <mfa298> especially audiophiles
[15:26] <Ugi> but £15 for a 30cm USB cable?
[15:26] <mattbrejza> still cheaper than the high street
[15:26] <Ugi> and surely for a digital signal, it either works or it doesn't. There is no try.
[15:27] <mfa298> there have been instances of manufacturers selling cat5 cable with direction markins for several hundred pounds
[15:27] <mfa298> see my first two comments: some people are gullible ( especially audiophiles )
[15:28] <cde> mfa298: five nines silver. it's for the elite usb-wielding vampire killers
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[15:28] <cde> wait, werewolves. my bad
[15:29] <Ugi> I think warewolf killing stands much more chance of beign worth buying pure silver for than 1-foot USB cables!
[15:30] <mfa298> Case in point of gulible audiophiles: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9967991-1.html
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[15:31] <Ugi> mfa298: that's truly incredible
[15:32] <mfa298> that article forgets to mention the direction markings so your connect that cable the right way around.
[15:34] <mfa298> then again I almost asked a guy in maplin the other day why you'de buy Cat6 cable rather than cat5e when he was trying to sell cat6 to another customer.
[15:34] <HixWork> ffs
[15:34] <mfa298> (the only real reason for cat6 over cat5e is if it's cheaper)
[15:35] <Ugi> because it's so important to connect a bi-directional cable the right way around!
[15:36] <Ugi> I thought the fact that the USB cable used _four_ silver conductors was interesting
[15:37] <Ugi> I could, perhaps, understand that the signals might attenuate less in silver
[15:37] <Ugi> but the power wires?
[15:37] <Ugi> and over 30cm, surely wet string would do.
[15:37] <cde> because the world has too much silver, let's use it in USB cables
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> I actually contemplated making some gold headphone leads.
[15:38] <mfa298> when dealing with such things I tend to just remember quotes from a Flanders and Swann song: "Surprised they let you have it in this room anyway, the acoustics are all wrong. If you raise the ceiling four feet... put the fireplace from that wall to that wall... you'll still only get the stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard. "
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> - basially as it doesn't fatigue - and 16 ohm/m or so cable isn't that much gold
[15:38] <Ugi> SpeedEvil: isn't silver a better conductor than gold?
[15:39] <Ugi> we've every sort of gadget now, for every sort of chore
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> yes, but silver work hardens easily
[15:39] <Ugi> but it's much more work & worry than it ever was before
[15:40] <mfa298> gold plating on connectors makes some sense as it's not going to react / tarnish as much as silver / copper
[15:40] <Ugi> I think gold to gold makes a very good contact
[15:46] <Joel_re> mfa298: oh interesting point about gsm signals at ground level
[15:47] <Joel_re> whats height are the GSM antennas placed at, in the UK/US?
[15:48] <mfa298> In the UK probably 10-20m above ground depending on location and the range they need to cover
[15:48] <Joel_re> hmm
[15:48] <Joel_re> how does the 10mW 434MHz perform once at ground level
[15:49] <mfa298> as a rough guide, of the flights that have used gsm as a backup about 50% have given a position report at some point after landing (I think in some cases it's taken them an hour to recover)
[15:49] <Joel_re> hmm
[15:49] <mfa298> at ground level range can be fairly short (depends on surroundings)
[15:50] <craag> But with 434 you can drive to within a few 100m with a receiver and pick it up, wherever it is. Can't do that with GSM.
[15:50] <mfa298> but you have telemetry data during the whole flight and the aim is to get to near the predicted burst point at the time it bursts at which point you should be able to get data most of the way down.
[15:51] <mfa298> last flight I went out for I think we heard the 434MHz payload down to around 400m ASL (with the landing site around 100m ASL)
[15:51] <Joel_re> Im worried I wont have enough recieving stations near by
[15:51] <Joel_re> or infact I might be the only one
[15:51] <Joel_re> In india
[15:52] <mfa298> With a good chase car setup (enough people) and with a bit of luck you can even see the payload come down
[15:52] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[15:52] <craag> cyclops recently did a flight in Spain where he was the only 434 receiver.
[15:53] <Joel_re> I have a mountain range on the west and the sea on the east
[15:53] <Joel_re> if it goes over the range and lands beyond I might be out of luck
[15:54] <Joel_re> I've planned on doing some gps fencing, if I can get it all to work right
[15:54] <Joel_re> in time
[15:54] <craag> Well there's some good prediction tools so you can know roughly where it's going to go
[15:54] <mfa298> there are probably several hams around you could recruit to help track. That's what cyclops did - although they didn't seem to upload and data
[15:55] <Joel_re> hmm
[15:55] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[15:55] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
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[15:57] <craag> If you know it's going over the mountains then you just need to get a chase car to the other side of the mountains (although still being high is good), before it lands.
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[15:58] <craag> That could mean having a chase car standing by in the mountains before launch of course.
[15:58] <Willdude123> Hi cra
[15:58] <Willdude123> craag,
[15:59] <craag> yo Willdude123
[15:59] <Willdude123> I have a lot to do this summer
[15:59] <Willdude123> I have to figure out the GPS, learn calculus, and figure out the best antenna set up.
[15:59] <Joel_re> craag: right
[16:00] Nick change: HixWork -> HixGoneHome
[16:00] <craag> Joel_re: But the easiest thin might be to use habhub.org/predict to find out when it's not going over the mountains.
[16:01] <Joel_re> craag: yep, I'll be launching in december or after
[16:02] <Joel_re> currently its the monsoons, the prediction shows it'll land 90+kms into the sea
[16:03] <Joel_re> I need to figure/build the chase car/base station antenna as well
[16:03] <craag> Yep we can help you out with that.
[16:04] <craag> (with the antennas, not the balloon-stealing winds)
[16:04] <mfa298> Willdude123: the most important bit for a recieving antenna is location - The last few flights I've tracked at home I've done with a home made 434MHz Groundplan antenna.
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[16:04] <Willdude123> LOS is very important
[16:05] <Willdude123> But an antenna would be impossible to install on my house, and although he seems OK with it I'm not sure my granddad wants 2m antenna atop a 1.5m pole fixed to his house.
[16:07] <mfa298> Willdude123: depending on what's around you sticking a groundplane antenna on something to give it a bit of height in the garden might work - and could be put up temporarily for flights.
[16:07] <Willdude123> Hmm
[16:08] <Willdude123> Not much high stuff round here.
[16:08] <Willdude123> Looking for a w-2000 really
[16:08] <mfa298> Something like a 2/3m length of 34mm waste pipe from a hardware store is cheap and easy to get hold of.
[16:09] <mfa298> if it's ABS pipe rather than PP it should support something line a W-2000
[16:10] <mfa298> also I'm not sure I'd bother with a tri band antenna - I'm not sure you'll hear much on 6m with one (although my vertical is a tri band one)
[16:15] <Joel_re> hmm
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[16:23] <jcoxon> morning
[16:23] <jcoxon> ping Upu
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[16:34] <Upu> hey jcoxon
[16:36] <LeoBodnar> have you seen the PSU link Upu ?
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[16:37] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/metasepi/chibios-arafura
[16:37] <Laurenceb> wtf ?!?!
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[16:42] <Upu> LeoBodnar ?
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[16:43] <Upu> I have no idea what that is Laurenceb
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[16:43] <Laurenceb> Upu: they went mad
[16:43] <Laurenceb> "Let's try to rewrite ChibiOS/RT using Haskell and Ajhc compiler."
[16:43] <Laurenceb> or if you are sane... lets not
[16:44] <Upu> ok :)
[16:44] <Upu> I recognise the letters
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[17:28] <iain_g4sgx> I do hope theres a launch soon, been writing code too long now, need a break. Starting to do my head in somewhat..
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[17:34] <mfa298> iain_g4sgx: sounds like there will be lots of launches over the bank holiday weekend
[17:34] <mfa298> not sure there are any this weekend now though :(
[17:36] <mfa298> I think i might need some flights soon as well - stop me spending money on HAB/Radio stuff
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[17:42] <iain_g4sgx> Am trying to get it working for this weekend to test a little. Thought i'd done all the hard bits but then realised I had to convert a 32bit 2's compliment long/lat into ASCII. Not easy on an 8bit PIC but nearly there.
[17:44] <mattbrejza> whats wrong with sprintf and whatever the identifier for 32bit integers?
[17:44] <arko> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9499738056_76426b1f86_o.jpg
[17:44] <arko> pretty cool
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[17:45] <arko> first one to fly a had throgh one gets a cookie
[17:45] <arko> hab*
[17:46] <iain_g4sgx> mattbrejza: not using C, using ASM
[17:46] <mattbrejza> oh right
[17:48] <iain_g4sgx> As I said got to the doing my head in stage as its so close to finishing. Very frustrating. Has to go via BCD first.
[17:50] <mattbrejza> i question your sanity
[17:52] <iain_g4sgx> He he. As ar as I can work out, there is a value of minus -200 odd that will error out as inverse 2's comp wont work. Not ever likely to hit that exact loaction though
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[17:58] <mattbrejza> actually ive had to turn a binary number into a decimal representation in verilog before
[17:58] <mattbrejza> probably the same thing youre doing
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[18:12] <iain_g4sgx> Yep, there are bits of code about to help but not for my pic and you need to understand how it works to be able to adapt the method, then its easier. hopefully just cracked it.
[18:13] <iain_g4sgx> Now my main prob is i cant get a lock inside for testing.
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[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:46] <chrisstubbs> daveake, http://bit.ly/1eMT65O
[18:49] <daveake> grrr
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> aha
[18:57] <daveake> hot air indeed
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[18:57] <daveake> he was supposed to be sending me copy to check before it was published
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> Welcome to the media industry
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[18:58] <daveake> oh I know, had it before
[19:02] <Steve_2E0VET> ping Upu
[19:02] <chrisstubbs> Well, at least the helium didn't catch fire
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[19:05] <Upu> hey Steve_2E0VET
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> FT-817 £275 40 mins left http://ebay.eu/1cGvR1D
[19:06] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, PM'd you
[19:07] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, is it the 817 or 817ND
[19:07] <chrisstubbs> I see no mention of ND, not evern sure what the difference is
[19:08] <mattbrejza> hurrah
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> neutral density.
[19:08] <mattbrejza> fatfs running on new tracker
[19:08] <Steve_2E0VET> ND is the later model, not sure the difference either but it is better. i picked up a 817 for £200 a couple of weeks ago
[19:08] <mfa298> ND is a slighlty newer design. although I think the only obvious differences are 60m freqs (requires NoV) and an extra display colour
[19:09] <mfa298> the non ND might have a slightly higher chance of blowing the finals
[19:09] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, weren't there some additional filters on the ND
[19:09] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, yes i heard that
[19:09] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, £200 is a nice price
[19:09] <mfa298> you can add SSB or CW filters although I think you can do that on both versions. Probably the same with the BHI DSP
[19:10] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, yes i thought it was a bargain
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> Do we have an expert regarding permits?
[19:10] <mfa298> £200 is pretty decent
[19:10] <Steve_2E0VET> Bo_DK_Working, fishing permits?
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> hehehehe
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> nope
[19:10] <Steve_2E0VET> caa?
[19:10] <Bo_DK_Working> launch permits.... in DK i have to apply for one
[19:10] <chrisstubbs> What would you like to know Bo_DK_Working?
[19:11] <Bo_DK_Working> and for permit they require some info i'm not sure on
[19:11] <Steve_2E0VET> Bo_DK_Working, im no expert, but you have to give 30 days notice
[19:11] <Bo_DK_Working> first they ask for a codename... i guess i can just use the site name?
[19:12] <Bo_DK_Working> i think its very different from the uk way of doing things
[19:12] <chrisstubbs> Bo_DK_Working, It might be best to give them a call if you have questions
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> nah... it was only one point i had troulbe with now i have the list up
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> SSR code or NDB freq
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> doing this in lot of advance
[19:13] <Bo_DK_Working> so i have time to sort it all properly
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[19:24] <eroomde> Randomskk / jonsowman / DanielRichman are any of you about?
[19:24] KiwiDeanWork (~Thunderbi@202.164.31.33) joined #highaltitude.
[19:24] <DanielRichman> eroomde: hello
[19:24] <eroomde> i wonder if i could be super cheeky
[19:24] <eroomde> this keeps being cited and i don;t want to pay for it
[19:24] <eroomde> http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/3.2632
[19:24] <eroomde> can you get it through cudn?
[19:24] <DanielRichman> haha, yeah sure
[19:25] <Randomskk> I am about
[19:25] <eroomde> see aboov
[19:25] <Randomskk> oh too slow
[19:25] <DanielRichman> I confess I am yet to get something off (I assume the JSTOR sub?)
[19:25] <eroomde> i'm not sure if different departments have different subscriptions of if everyone can get at everything
[19:26] <DanielRichman> so if Randomskk knows exactly where to look he may be quicker
[19:26] <eroomde> Randomskk, [david frost voice] over to you
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, I got a KiCAD question for you
[19:27] <Randomskk> can't find it. it's not on any of the UL subscriptions, it's not on JSTOR, google know of no other versions, uhm
[19:27] <Randomskk> one sec tho
[19:27] <eroomde> they might not have an AIAA subscription
[19:27] <eroomde> i'll get a photocopy from alan
[19:27] <Randomskk> AIAA don't seem to _do_ institutional logins
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> when I develop new schematic parts on one computer, I have to copy all the library files to another PC where I want to continue work, is that right?
[19:28] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: uhm, the parts are copied into the schematic, so the lib doesn't need to be present to use the schemtic and edit it
[19:28] <Randomskk> and from the schematic you can extract the symbols into a new library file
[19:29] <Randomskk> so uhm
[19:29] <Randomskk> not really
[19:29] <Randomskk> but you mnight find it convenient
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> OK so I only need the saved schematic
[19:29] <Randomskk> yea
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> and then I tried to make an NTX2
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> on the schematic that went well, and then I went to PCBNew according to the tutorial
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I was struggling a bit, I made the seven pins, with the spacing as on the datasheet
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> but how can I set up the case dimensions?
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. the sheet says the NTX2 is 8 mm wide and 42 mm long
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> and I would like to have it fit to the board of course
[19:31] <Randomskk> the graphic line tool
[19:31] <Randomskk> on the module editor
[19:32] <Randomskk> I assume you're in the module editor, not pcbnew itself
[19:32] <Randomskk> it has a graphic line tool for drawing things like the case dimensions
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yes, I went to pcbnew and then opened the editor
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah, is that the line & polygon tool?
[19:32] <Randomskk> it will show as silkscreen when you import the module (though you can later delete those lines just on your pcb if you want)
[19:32] <Randomskk> hmm not polygon
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:32] <Randomskk> oh
[19:33] <Randomskk> yes
[19:33] <Randomskk> it is that one
[19:33] <Randomskk> just checked
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:33] <Randomskk> third button down
[19:33] <Randomskk> "add graphic line or polygon"
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:33] <Randomskk> those four things - that, the circle, the arc and the text - just add things to silk
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> so that would actually be printed on the board when it is made?
[19:34] <Randomskk> it would be on the silk layer, yes - but you can disable that if you want
[19:34] <Randomskk> if you really want you can also move those lines to the eco or user layers which don't get printed
[19:34] <Randomskk> but I would just put it on the silk
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah me too
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> so I have to try and align the pins with the rectangle to get a good fit
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[19:43] <eroomde> are we giving up on my turbulent mixing of coaxial jets
[19:44] <eroomde> i shouldn't be doing work now anyway
[19:47] <Steve_2E0VET> any tips on converting a float to a string before I start to trawel ebay
[19:47] <Randomskk> can't find any obvious ways of getting at it
[19:47] <eroomde> um...
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[19:47] <Steve_2E0VET> ebay??? google i mean
[19:47] <eroomde> lol
[19:47] <eroomde> i did wonder
[19:47] <Steve_2E0VET> so did i
[19:47] <Randomskk> the aiaa site doesn't allow institutional logins and doesn't care if I'm coming from a cam address
[19:47] <daveake> A++++ will format again
[19:47] <Randomskk> it's not on the cued or ul libraries
[19:47] <eroomde> Steffanx, look up the manual for printf
[19:47] <Randomskk> so yea
[19:48] <eroomde> and its siblings
[19:48] <Randomskk> no luck I'm afraid. pick a more available article next time
[19:48] <eroomde> not to worry
[19:48] <eroomde> will nudge alan
[19:48] <Steffanx> eroomde, erh?
[19:48] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET Is this on Arduino?
[19:48] <eroomde> Steffanx, i can't parse that noise
[19:49] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, yes
[19:49] <daveake> dtostrf then
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[19:49] <Steffanx> I couldn't parse your highlihgt eroomde :P
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[19:49] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, thanks
[19:49] <Steffanx> *highlight
[19:49] <Steve_2E0VET> dtostrf
[19:49] <daveake> By default, the Arduino IDE doesn't link in the library code needed to format floats in printf/sprintf/etc
[19:49] <Steve_2E0VET> sorry that was meant for google
[19:50] <eroomde> i am lost
[19:50] <eroomde> Steffanx, oh!
[19:50] <eroomde> that was meant for Steve_2E0VET
[19:50] <daveake> So you can override that, or use dtostrf, or not use floats :)
[19:50] <eroomde> ste[tab]
[19:50] <Steffanx> Lazy *ss :P
[19:50] <eroomde> oh arduino
[19:50] <eroomde> confuser of a thousand concepts
[19:51] <eroomde> perpetrator of a thousand poorly documented libraries
[19:52] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET, did you get the external programmer stuff working?
[19:53] <eroomde> my advice in general is probably quite unspecific. sorry about that.
[19:53] <Steve_2E0VET> eroomde, yes had to download the driver lol
[19:53] <daveake> interesting name for a driver
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, I think we have nulls :D
[19:56] <eroomde> don't be rude chrisstubbs
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[19:58] <cyclops> hi!
[19:59] <Upu> hey cyclops
[19:59] <Upu> welcome back
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[20:00] <cyclops> Im having a lot of problems with internet here :/
[20:00] <Upu> I saw your twitter
[20:00] <cyclops> and yeah Upu Habduino performed flawlessly
[20:00] <Upu> great to hear :)
[20:00] <Upu> did the GSM thing work ?
[20:00] <cyclops> nope
[20:00] <daveake> So, all as expected then
[20:00] <cyclops> not once landed
[20:01] <cyclops> but yes when falling (500m)
[20:01] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, here are all the pictures
[20:01] <cyclops> we found the payload near the road
[20:01] <Upu> interesting I bet you wouldn't have found it with a position @ 500m
[20:01] <cyclops> we say the parachute
[20:01] <cyclops> *saw
[20:01] <Upu> thats usually what you see first
[20:01] <daveake> that always helps
[20:01] <cyclops> ah and BTW dont left the radio on in the car
[20:02] <cyclops> We didnt switched of the radio, puted in the car
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, another module editor question
[20:02] <cyclops> and later the car remote would not work
[20:02] <Upu> oh yes jams the doors :))
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> when I went in there, I first had to select the working library
[20:02] <fsphil> you'd you manage it chrisstubbs?
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> it didn't have all the libraries from the schematic program
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[20:02] <Randomskk> schematic and footprint libraries are different things
[20:02] <cyclops> but overall was a awsome experience
[20:02] <eroomde> whhhhhhyyyyyyyyyy
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:02] <cyclops> thanks all guys for helping!
[20:03] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, i meant WHERE are all the pictures
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> I think I selected connectors or so to place the NTX2 in
[20:03] <Randomskk> schematic editor and pcbnew have separate lists of libraries
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> is that bad?
[20:03] <Randomskk> hmm
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:03] <Randomskk> yes
[20:03] <Upu> welcome glad it all worked out, when you sort your internet out pics :)
[20:03] <Randomskk> you shouldn't put stuff in the supplied libraries
[20:03] <Randomskk> you should really make your own library/ies for custom things
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:04] <cyclops> Steve_2E0VET: its difficult to upload them with a 2KB/s up connection :/
[20:04] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, lol
[20:04] <cyclops> Yeah upu i got about 2500
[20:04] <Upu> cool
[20:04] <cyclops> You can even see africa
[20:04] <cyclops> and Gibraltar
[20:04] <Upu> we don't mention Gibraltar here :)
[20:05] <eroomde> can you see the queue of traffic by the gibraltar border?
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[20:05] <cyclops> nearly :P
[20:05] <cyclops> but you can see a lot of spanish coast
[20:06] <cyclops> now ill have to do some temp graphs
[20:06] <cyclops> minimum was -36
[20:06] <Upu> max in the field was 40 ?
[20:07] <cyclops> yep
[20:07] <cyclops> i think letme check
[20:07] <cyclops> cameras were damm hot
[20:08] <cyclops> I couldnt even hold them
[20:08] <fsphil> hot shot?
[20:08] <fsphil> (sorry)
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> cyclops, cool
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> btw what is bad about gibraltar?
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> isn't it UK property?
[20:08] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander, stop being jurgen
[20:08] <Upu> lol
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[20:10] <cyclops> Upu: max 35 internal 41 external
[20:10] <Upu> not bad
[20:10] <Upu> it looked to be getting a little toasty on the ground
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[20:11] <cyclops> yep
[20:11] <mclane> Are some of the raspi-tracker developers around?
[20:11] <cyclops> it was really hot
[20:11] <cyclops> Me and my cousing ran to the payload ~1km
[20:11] <cyclops> and got burned in the way
[20:11] <eroomde> nice
[20:12] <eroomde> what time did you launch?
[20:12] <cyclops> 10am
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[20:13] <cyclops> quite later than planned
[20:13] <eroomde> yeah
[20:13] <eroomde> so a midday-sun landing
[20:14] <cyclops> yep
[20:18] <cyclops> hopefully was spotted quickly
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[20:49] <iain_g4sgx> Anyone know much on UBX packets?
[20:52] <Upu> shoot
[20:53] <fsphil> harsh
[20:54] <iain_g4sgx> cool. In a UBX packet, the long and lat is in 'little endian'. I take it that means the LEAST sig bit is first, contrary to how a 32bit number would be written down?
[20:54] <fsphil> the first byte is the least significant
[20:56] <iain_g4sgx> so its stored bytewise, so it bits 0-7 then 8-16 ?
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[20:56] <fsphil> yes
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[20:57] <iain_g4sgx> so 0x2EFE would be sent as FE2E not EFE2?
[20:59] <fsphil> indeed
[20:59] <fsphil> I use this to help read 32-bit numbers from ubx packets: #define UBX_INT32(buf, offset) (int32_t) buf[offset] | (int32_t) buf[offset + 1] << 8 | (int32_t) buf[offset + 2] << 16 | (int32_t) buf[offset + 3] << 24
[20:59] <iain_g4sgx> that would explain why my lock position is stable but garbage. :)
[21:00] <iain_g4sgx> not using C
[21:00] <Randomskk> what are you using?
[21:00] <fsphil> we can't speak anymore
[21:00] <fsphil> ;)
[21:00] <iain_g4sgx> ASM on a PIC
[21:00] <Upu> lol
[21:00] <daveake> Blimey
[21:00] <daveake> Do you hate yourself?
[21:00] <fsphil> lol
[21:02] <iain_g4sgx> Yep, will def use C for the extra processing stuff. Not like im short of program space.
[21:02] <iain_g4sgx> so close now, CRC all done just got to fix this endian thing
[21:03] <gonzo__> it was not that long ago that there wwere no reliable c compilers for pics
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[21:03] <gonzo__> and at the start there were no compilers at all. Back in the dark days, in the days before the empire......
[21:04] <gonzo__> You must learn the ways of the force.....
[21:04] <gonzo__> sorry.
[21:05] <iain_g4sgx> Looking like the whole prog is about 4K so not so bad
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> KiCAD is good
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> when you get the hang of it
[21:06] <gonzo__> I have to watch star wars again now....
[21:06] <Randomskk> gonzo__: not so long ago?
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> Next Sunday, AD?
[21:07] <Randomskk> did I miss an announcement in the last few weeks?
[21:08] <gonzo__> think it's beed quiet in the air recently
[21:11] <iain_g4sgx> coolio, that was an easy fix, perfect coo-ords now, well minus the decimal point but thtas simples.
[21:13] <Randomskk> haha if you say so
[21:13] <Randomskk> that decimal point has caused probably 70% of all coordinate telemetry errors
[21:14] <Randomskk> where the real coordinate should be -12.0345 you see -12.-0345, -12.345, 12.-345, 12.-0345, -12.65180
[21:14] <iain_g4sgx> why? isnt it just so many chars from the end? assuming 1e-7
[21:15] <Randomskk> it depends on how you're doing it
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[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> abend
[21:15] <Randomskk> but a lot of people have one variable storing the degrees and another storing the decimal part
[21:15] <iain_g4sgx> those are issues with c functions i think
[21:15] <Randomskk> well they are issues with a lot of common implementations
[21:15] <Randomskk> it's possible to get it right either way
[21:15] <Steve_2E0VET> will snprintf clear a string before it adds values
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[21:16] <Randomskk> most people are also not getting binary microdegrees
[21:16] <Randomskk> Steve_2E0VET: no
[21:16] <fsphil> snprintf will overwrite whatever you point it at
[21:17] <iain_g4sgx> Thats why its simpler in asm, its all memory locations and pointers, everything so you never have to type cast etc
[21:17] <Steve_2E0VET> if i have "AAAAAA" in a string then write "BB" what will the result be "BB" or "BBAAAA" or "AAAABB"
[21:17] <iain_g4sgx> and you know exactly hows its stored bitwise etc
[21:17] <fsphil> it'll overwrite it
[21:18] <fsphil> so "BB"
[21:18] <daveake> You get BB
[21:18] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, thanks
[21:18] <Steve_2E0VET> that what i want lol
[21:18] <daveake> Actually you get BB then a null then whatever was there before
[21:18] <daveake> Generally
[21:18] <Steve_2E0VET> ok so is there an easy way to clear it first
[21:19] <daveake> When I say "generally", I mean if you're filling with strcpy or sprintf or some other string function
[21:19] <Steve_2E0VET> my background is as400 where you say eval sring1 = string2 and string one is cleared before the data is moved to it
[21:20] <daveake> If you dealing with normal null-terminated strings, you don't care what's after the null
[21:20] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, i am actually trying to generate the rtty sting
[21:21] <daveake> Generally you'd sprintf the lot into a string buffer that's big enough for the longest sentence you might fill it with
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[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
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[21:52] <Steve_2E0VET> do arduino uno's get hot underneath the regulator
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[22:03] <KT5TK_QRL> Steve_2E0VET: Depends on what voltage you feed it with. Usually not.
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[22:28] <Willdude123> Hi
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[00:00] --- Fri Aug 16 2013