highaltitude.log.20130813

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[00:30] <Bo|2> evening all you night owls :-D
[00:31] <Bo|2> new nutter here.... from denmark :-P
[00:31] <nigelvh> It's not night everywhere my friend. Welcome, from the west coast of the US.
[00:31] <Bo|2> was inspired to jump by some brits
[00:32] <Bo|2> :-D hehe fun to see that there are life this time
[00:32] <nigelvh> The channel is mainly inhabited by brits, but there are a number of people from various places.
[00:32] <Bo|2> i know... but still surprised
[00:33] <Bo|2> think gadget-mac has the biggest honor in getting me here
[00:33] <nigelvh> Arko's probably around somewhere. He's down in California.
[00:33] <nigelvh> I'm up here in Washington.
[00:33] <Bo|2> one of the few states i have not been in....
[00:33] <nigelvh> Washington is a good place to be.
[00:33] <Bo|2> thou its long time since last overall
[00:34] <Bo|2> think last time i was in the us was at age of 15....
[00:34] <Bo|2> maybe less
[00:34] <Bo|2> and have passed the age of 36
[00:35] <Bo|2> hmm.... if i remember corretly last time there was during the oklahoma bombing
[00:35] <Bo|2> sure not spelled right
[00:35] <Bo|2> 10000km roundtrip in most western states
[00:36] <Bo|2> man you have good nature hidden
[00:36] <Bo|2> most would say its just big cities
[00:36] <Bo|2> etc etc
[00:37] <Bo|2> and the beginning of that trip was "fun".... my dad is the kind that can read maps for the entire trip and not need them on the trip itself
[00:37] <Bo|2> but in LA they made some changes to the roads so we ended up going through south central la
[00:38] <Bo|2> most noteable pass a garlic factory :-P
[00:38] <Bo|2> anyways....
[00:38] <Bo|2> i think my biggest contribution here for starters will be an autonomus tracking station...
[00:39] <Bo|2> based on a raspberry pi
[00:39] <Bo|2> just have to thinker a bit with hardware side
[00:40] <Bo|2> its going to be something light... trying to make it mountable on a camera tripod
[00:44] <nigelvh> That would be awesome.
[00:45] <nigelvh> I know a few guys have tried dl-fldigi on an RPi, but it's a bit underpowered to run the GUI.
[00:47] <Bo|2> i have talked with another brit that have made an software radio app...
[00:47] <K9JKM> Some homebrew rotor and controller hardware is posted at:
[00:47] <K9JKM> http://www.tomdoyle.org/satellite/SatTrackerProjectHome.html
[00:47] <Bo|2> the way we have planned so far....
[00:48] <Bo|2> pi will have a 3g dongle....
[00:48] <Bo|2> it will open an vpn home so you from home or anywhere else can control it
[00:49] <Bo|2> i planned for it to have a button that you pressed when it was pointing due north etc
[00:49] <Bo|2> but thought of an compas chip instead
[00:49] <Bo|2> so local there will be no screen.... just the pure minimal
[00:54] <nigelvh> Cool
[00:54] <Bo|2> not even started on the electronic side.... yet
[00:54] <Bo|2> eagle fired up thou
[00:55] <Bo|2> no project page either :-D
[00:56] <Bo|2> but other than the pi... there will be an GPS so it can calc where to point the yagi...
[00:57] <Bo|2> it will take pos of baloon etc and compare to its own to be able to track better
[00:57] <Bo|2> then a DVB-T dongle... dont remember what HD tv is called in the us
[00:58] <Bo|2> but it does not matter since it will pass the raw signal to a software radio
[00:58] <Bo|2> servos to pan and tilt
[00:58] <Bo|2> something that can charge batterys from sun...
[00:58] <Bo|2> so far lead acid from a UPS unit
[00:59] <Bo|2> but might change as i get it build
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[01:49] <Bo|2> General q... with GPS on this thing how hard would it be to know where the sun is ?
[01:49] <Bo|2> thought of making the solar cells track the sun to get max out of it
[01:51] <Bo|2> please ask if you have no clue what i'm up to
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[02:16] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Sleep
[02:22] <heathkid> there are easier ways to detect sunlight for positioning
[02:23] <Bo|2> hehe i know
[02:23] <Bo|2> just wondered since the gps module will be there anyway
[02:34] <heathkid> what are you trying to position? payload?
[02:34] <heathkid> just cover it in really thin solar panels
[02:34] <Bo|2> no no...
[02:35] <Bo|2> trying to make an autonomus tracking station
[02:35] <Bo|2> and wanted some solar cells to charge battery
[02:35] <heathkid> look up how they make tracking telescopes
[02:35] <Bo|2> and since there will be an GPS module why not use it for more than one purpose
[02:36] <heathkid> GPS just means you don't need to know which way is North
[02:36] <heathkid> the rest is hardware and a motor
[02:36] <Bo|2> yep.. and with right formula you can calculate where sun is
[02:36] <heathkid> yep
[02:37] <heathkid> or at least where it *should* be
[02:37] <heathkid> :)
[02:37] <Bo|2> :-D
[02:37] <Bo|2> hehe
[02:37] <Bo|2> does not tell where clouds etc are
[02:37] <heathkid> no, but there are other sensors for that
[02:37] <heathkid> UV is a good indication
[02:38] <Bo|2> about to go to bed..... 4am here....
[02:38] <heathkid> night
[02:38] <Bo|2> but shortly what i'm trying to build is
[02:38] <Bo|2> a raspberry pi based tracker... yagi on top with pan and tilt
[02:39] <Bo|2> gps is used to compare the tracking station pos to that of the baloon
[02:39] <Bo|2> and figure where yagi should point
[02:39] <Bo|2> it will or can have a 3G dongle
[02:39] <heathkid> that's different that what you originally were talking about but should be fairly easy
[02:40] <heathkid> a real-time Alt/Az GPS tracker
[02:40] <Bo|2> you should be able to mount on camera tripod and just leave it
[02:40] <Bo|2> then go home and control from there
[02:40] <heathkid> great project!
[02:40] <Bo|2> yes....
[02:40] <Bo|2> but the project needs power....
[02:41] <Bo|2> thought of solar cells to charge a lead acid battery
[02:41] <Bo|2> or lipo
[02:41] <Darkside> th tracking thing has been done by the CUSF guys
[02:41] <Darkside> i think they did it years ago
[02:41] <Bo|2> hence i want the panels to be pointed toward sun to get max out of it
[02:41] <Darkside> theres probably some documentation on it
[02:41] <Darkside> i think they called it a 'trackatron'
[02:41] <Bo|2> http://heliowatcher.com/
[02:42] <heathkid> well... you know where the sun is and at what angle is best for your panel... just get a descent panel and lean it up against the tripod for the radio tracker
[02:42] <Bo|2> is one way to do
[02:42] <heathkid> my Davis weather station uses solar to power during the day... the panel doesn't move
[02:42] <Bo|2> yep... but what if i leave the setup and go miles away...
[02:43] <Bo|2> want the battery to be charged from sunrise to sunset
[02:43] <heathkid> you'll still have power unless it's night or during a thunderstorm or your battery goes flat
[02:43] <Bo|2> its the last thing i want to avoid...
[02:44] <Bo|2> ie get it charged as much as possible
[02:44] <heathkid> get a bigger panel
[02:44] <heathkid> :P
[02:44] <Bo|2> without beeing there
[02:44] <Bo|2> hehe... that could be another way yes
[02:45] <heathkid> you'll use more power trying to move the panel to point it at the sun than you would just leaving it alone pointing south
[02:45] <heathkid> assuming you're in the northern hemisphere
[02:45] <Bo|2> but i think that heliowatcher site give a lot clues....
[02:45] <Bo|2> i'm.... Denmark to be excat
[02:45] <heathkid> I'll take a look at it
[02:45] <heathkid> ah... nice
[02:46] <Bo|2> at least it gives me enough clues on hardware
[02:46] <Bo|2> think the code is arduino based and not raspberry pi
[02:47] <Bo|2> have eagle fired up to design a all in one board...
[02:47] <Bo|2> and have the tools to do it in smd
[02:47] <Bo|2> are you close to me? the nice comment?
[02:48] <heathkid> so use arduino for the solar tracker and SPI or I2C to talk to the rpi
[02:48] <heathkid> no... I'm in the middle of no-where Indiana, USA
[02:48] <Bo|2> hehehe....
[02:49] <heathkid> but I was born in Germany
[02:49] <Bo|2> anyways.... time to crawl to bed before i need to stay and sleep at desk...
[02:49] <Bo|2> back in like 6 hours
[02:50] <heathkid> see you later
[02:50] Nick change: Bo|2 -> bo_sleeping
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[06:20] <eroomde> mornatron
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[06:25] <eroomde> this months popular science cover
[06:25] <eroomde> http://www.noteitposts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/145.jpg
[06:25] <arko> nice!
[06:26] <arko> i'll need to pick up a copy
[06:26] <eroomde> not sure i like the title....
[06:26] <arko> haha
[06:27] <arko> yeah, its nothing like the space shuttle either
[06:27] <arko> :/
[06:28] <eroomde> http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/a/aa/Screen-triplehead-galois.jpg
[06:28] <eroomde> i do like this pic for some reason
[06:28] <eroomde> i think i'm going to give haskell another whirl
[06:28] <arko> your desk?
[06:29] <eroomde> nope
[06:29] <arko> ah ok
[06:29] <arko> i was gonna ask, how do you use that keyboard
[06:30] <eroomde> i could get used to it
[06:30] <eroomde> i do have the kinesis freestyle already
[06:30] <eroomde> i might sell my various keyboards to get one of them
[06:30] <eroomde> i had the freestyle, and imb model m clone, and an apple skinny one
[06:31] <arko> the Model M is my favorite
[06:31] <nigelvh> arko, figured out my si4464 issue
[06:31] <arko> oh?
[06:31] <arko> what was the issue?
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[06:32] <nigelvh> The reciever can only handle 13dBm, and I had used the direct tie circuit. So as soon as I turned the transmitter down below +13dBm, it started working fine.
[06:32] <nigelvh> Then I removed the components that tied them together and it was fine at full power.
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[06:34] <nigelvh> Probably wouldn't apply to Upu, but certainly might apply to KT5TK. I just know he hasn't actually populated the RX portions of his boards yet, so that's why he hasn't run into it.
[06:34] <arko> oh wow
[06:34] <arko> im using the 4461 which has rx
[06:34] <arko> thats really good to know
[06:34] <arko> :)
[06:35] <nigelvh> I don't think the 4461 goes above 13dBm...
[06:35] <nigelvh> Or is that a different one?
[06:35] <arko> +16dBm
[06:35] <nigelvh> Ah
[06:35] <nigelvh> Yeah, that would do it.
[06:36] <eroomde> hmm, there's a lovely new 12 core xeon
[06:36] <nigelvh> It's a really weird failure mode. The radio just seems to stop processing. Doesn't respond to commands, doesn't update the IRQ pin, just freezes and keeps transmitting.
[06:36] <eroomde> i wants it
[06:36] <eroomde> but for some reason xeons seem to be cukoo-land expensive
[06:37] <nigelvh> Anyway arko, thought you might like to know. But bed time for me.
[06:39] <arko> eroomde: find a school or business that needs to upgrade often
[06:39] <arko> i bought some nice Xeons off USC
[06:39] <arko> thanks nigelvh!
[06:40] <eroomde> i wants the new ones
[06:40] <eroomde> 30MB L3 cache
[06:40] <eroomde> that enables some shizzle
[06:41] <arko> wow
[06:41] <arko> yeah
[06:42] <arko> oh this is the one in the new mac pro?
[06:42] <eroomde> yes. so hopefully (?) not so madly pricey
[06:42] <arko> i can't help hating the new mac pro
[06:42] <arko> i really want to like it
[06:43] <eroomde> not even looked
[06:43] <arko> pci slots
[06:43] <eroomde> i just use linux boxes now
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[07:04] <fsphil> 30MB cache? that's mad
[07:13] <eroomde> yes
[07:13] <eroomde> L3
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[07:25] <number10> eroomde: blast from the past http://www.art.co.uk/products/p12704437256-sa-i6384637/front-cover-of-popular-science-magazine-april-1-1930.htm?sorig=cat&sorigid=1836&dimvals=1836-1837&ui=6988fd43fc5447829ac09b211087eb7f
[07:26] <eroomde> nicw!
[07:27] <eroomde> might get a copy
[07:28] <number10> I wonder what the article was - probably space travel for all
[07:28] <eroomde> http://www.noteitposts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/145.jpg
[07:28] <eroomde> they have given it a heatshield
[07:28] <eroomde> facepalm
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[07:29] <number10> the illustration does have a bit of a 30s spaceship feel to it
[07:31] <wrea> yeah
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[07:40] <eroomde> well the shape of skylon is very classical
[07:40] <eroomde> it's all driven by hypersonic concerns, but it is very pleasing as a consequence
[07:41] <HixWork> the stall speed sounded impressive
[07:42] <eroomde> couldn't tell you tbh
[07:42] <HixWork> quoted as 150mph
[07:42] <eroomde> some decent percentage of mach 1? :)
[07:42] <eroomde> wow
[07:43] <eroomde> that must be unloaded
[07:43] <eroomde> i.e. on landing
[07:45] <HixWork> yeah. I've seen rotation quoted as 590Kph, though this is all from the internets, so, is probably total and utter arse
[07:45] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
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[08:09] <HixWork> mornin' Babs
[08:09] <Babs> Hey hixwork - Got some pictures and settings for you. hang on a sec and will pm
[08:09] <HixWork> k
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[08:13] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[08:15] <HixWork> morning Lunar_LanderU , daveake
[08:16] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
[08:17] <daveake> morning all
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[08:28] <number10> morning daveake
[08:28] <daveake> morning number10
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[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> Good morning
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[08:34] <fsphil> well it's not monday, so pretty good
[08:36] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[08:37] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 did you get a chance to go over the second link I sent you from the creator of the SF board?
[08:37] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/HFbZPy that one
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> the second one?
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> The one with the Eagle files?
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> I managed to fix all the clearance errors, it turned out it was just a case of making some tracks a little thinner and moving a couple of polygons
[08:39] <HixWork> these files http://goo.gl/kHqlRY
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I downloaded those ones
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: There's just one thing that confused me. With the top ground plane removed over the TPS61201, it was easy to fix all the clearance issues. However, as soon as I put it back, I got 86 new clearance errors. Looking at it closely, it looked like everywhere on the TPS61201 was connected to ground! I'll send you the files
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6ttarxd7y0q3z4/MuJXp8NMyh
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> If the top ground pour bypasses the regulator, the DRC shows no errors; with the ground pour over the top, lots of errors. It appears that the polygons made for the regulator are almost merged with the ground pour
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[08:43] <HixWork> hence i said did you look at what he'd done with them... http://i.imgur.com/DGM0CNp.png
[08:44] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I think that's what I did without the top ground pour. I had a polygon for ground that I made which I connected to the bottom ground. I thought that was ok
[08:44] <HixWork> the file you just sent me has the whole top filled in
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> That's the one I changed last night. Upu told me to put it over the top so I'm a little confused
[08:48] <HixWork> looking at the designers board, he has polygons for VOUT, PAD, VIN and they are the only pours on the top layer apart from top tracks. there are 2 via under the TPS61202 linking PAD to bottom pour
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> So all the ground terminals of the components are connected to the PAD polygon?
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> How about this Hix: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6ttarxd7y0q3z4/MuJXp8NMyh
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> That's the version which comes up with 0 errors
[08:53] <zyp> I assume you have a two layer board (as opposed to 4 or more layers)
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> The top ground pour for the board misses the TPS61201. All the ground terminals on the TPS61201 components are connected to a polygon which extends under the PAD of the chip. There is a via on the pad connected the pour to bottom gnd.
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> 2 layer yes
[08:53] <zyp> which means that a ground pour will be broken up by traces here and there
[08:53] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[08:54] <zyp> and for that reason you should have a pour on both sides, tied together regularly, so they'll fill each other out where they are broken
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I've put a load of random vias in to connect them regularly
[08:54] <zyp> sounds good
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> I was just unsure about the regulator part. I think it's ok but I can't really tell
[08:55] <zyp> got a picture?
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have to grab one from the board, one sec
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h4gyk1ly0s9hgds/norbv2.png
[08:57] <zyp> that's a switching reg down in the corner?
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> that's the one
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[08:59] <zyp> why did you pull back the pour around it?
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> because it resulted in 86 ground errors
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> sorry, drc errors
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> which I couldn't begin to understand how to fix
[09:00] <zyp> that sounds strange
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> it looked like every polygon I have around the tps61201 ended up connected to the ground pour
[09:00] <zyp> when the polygon is poured, it should adhere to the design rules, and thus avoid causing violations
[09:00] <zyp> ah
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that, still confused
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[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I just remembered, last night, upu told me to change the rank of the top ground pour from one to two
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> It elminated all 86 errors
[09:03] <zyp> that's what I was about to say
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> But I was still a little concerned as it appeared all polygons were connected to gnd
[09:04] <zyp> did you set the spacing for the polygon to a sane value?
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> err, I think so
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> 1.27
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> mm I think
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> wait
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> it's fixed!
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> Yes changing the rank to 2 worked. Why the hell did I say it looked like they were all connected to ground? They're seperated :P
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> Just one thing, what does changing the rank actually mean? I know it's something to do with priority but I don't see how that applies in an electrical term
[09:07] <zyp> the order they are drawed in
[09:07] <Darkside> pour ordr
[09:07] <Darkside> order*
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[09:08] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right
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[09:10] <Laurenceb_> damn you Elon Musk
[09:10] <Laurenceb_> why you so smart
[09:10] <cde> 
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[09:12] <Laurenceb_> althought...
[09:12] <Laurenceb_> precast concrete tube and extruded aluminium rail would surely make more sense
[09:13] <Laurenceb_> that'd cost peanuts to build
[09:16] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 here is a grab of the guys settings http://i.imgur.com/ppq7E0I.png compare and see what you have vs his
[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> I had spacing to 1.27 and width to 0
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> Seems to be ok though now
[09:19] <zyp> width to 0 is not sane
[09:20] <HixWork> got an imgur of the board with new settings?
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[09:23] <zyp> keep in mind that eagle draws polygons from lines, and the width parameter sets the width of the lines it's drawn with
[09:23] <zyp> so the number of lines required to draw a polygon is total width / line width
[09:24] <astrobiologist> Hi, can anybody knowledgeable about the Foundation License exam please come over to ##ukhasconfexams so I can ask a few questions? Thanks
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[09:27] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 got to eagle help > editor commands > polygon. It gives you a breakdown of all the options and what they mean
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I'll have a look at that. I just tried to get the gerbers for it and gerblook couldn't render the background. When I run the cam, I get loads of warnings saying that polygon "x" has extremely large plot data... for loads of polygons.
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm gonna change the width of the polygons
[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I can't change the width, it'd be too thick
[09:31] <HixWork> read all the help page first
[09:31] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: So if that says I should avoid width 0, the next one I can go up to is 0.254
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> May cause me some problems
[09:35] <mfa298> astrobiologist: I can try and help, I've joined that channel
[09:35] <ibanezmatt13> yep loads more clearance issues :/
[09:36] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, you don't have to choose a preset value, you can type your own into it
[09:36] <HixWork> did you read ALL the page? "The polygon width should always be larger than the hardware resolution of the output device. For example when using a Gerber photoplotter with a typical resolution of 1 mil, the polygon width should not be smaller than, say, 6 mil. Typically you should keep the polygon width in the same range as your other wires. "
[09:36] <Willdude123> Hello
[09:38] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: In that case it would have to be 0.254 and changing them all to that results in many clearance errors
[09:38] <HixWork> and did you then read zyp 's comment?
[09:39] <HixWork> also you can redraw the polygons if the outline is causing the clearance issue...
[09:39] <HixWork> refer to the LiPO33 brd, see what he has done, it works perfectly. learn from that
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[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I experimented with the polygon settings, still the same problem when running the cam, "polygon has huge amount of plot data..."
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[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna leave it til later, otherwise I'll try and spend all day fixing it
[10:04] <HixWork> did you analyse the LiPo33 board properly? It works flawlessly and is very simple....
[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I looked at how he'd done it, tried to edit mine like his, no use
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[10:09] <ibanezmatt13> Hey S_Mark
[10:10] <S_Mark> Hello, been meaning to ask for a while, has anyone experienced their desktop PC interferring with the SDR dongle?
[10:10] <S_Mark> hey ibanezmatt13
[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> You're using a linear regulator on S3 aren't you?
[10:11] <S_Mark> yes
[10:11] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, I recently finished my board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjl2kvs44zx4ktn/NORB_v1.png
[10:12] <x-f> what interference do you have?
[10:12] <x-f> looks great, ibanezmatt13 :)
[10:13] <S_Mark> looks good. hmm well its hard to describe, just 'a lot of noise'
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[10:14] <x-f> keep it as far away from the PC as possible
[10:14] <x-f> it's quite normal, actually
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[10:14] <S_Mark> yes, actually have to turn it off and use the laptop. ah really? what causes it?
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> When I'm using dl-fldigi with my normal radio receiver, I tend to get a lot of noise to and I have it all right next to my desktop PC
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> I thought I'd designed the antenna wrong :P
[10:16] <S_Mark> ibanezmatt13, your regulator, have you checked it? mine was wrong and i had to cut a leg off!
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[10:16] <ibanezmatt13> what was wrong?
[10:16] <S_Mark> i mistakenly connected the bypass to ground
[10:17] <S_Mark> should have had a capacitor but missed it
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[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> I'll look at the schematic, I can't remember
[10:17] <S_Mark> cant remember details at the mo as i am at work
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> bugger
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> you're right
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> what's the plan of action?
[10:17] <ibanezmatt13> just to cut the leg?
[10:18] <S_Mark> i had to cut the bypass leg off, not ideal
[10:18] <staylo_> Has anyone published any tips on using SDRs for EMC testing? I would have thought they'd be quite well suited to it.
[10:18] <Darkside> you want somthing properly calibrated
[10:19] <Darkside> which the cheap SDRs aren't
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[10:20] <S_Mark> ibanezmatt13, have you sent it off to be made?
[10:20] <staylo_> Well, maybe not for certification, but for general 'Is this power supply going to mess with the frequencies used by this tranceiver'
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> yep, I'll just cut the leg
[10:21] <ibanezmatt13> Already started v2 anyway :)
[10:21] <S_Mark> whats v2 got on it?
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> well, I've been trying to set up a step up regulator to use only one cell instead of 3, and it has a pressure and temperature sensor on as opposed to an analog temp sensort
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> sensor*
[10:22] <S_Mark> ah cool
[10:22] <S_Mark> got your programmer?
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[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> yes, got it working too
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> I had to use it with the Pi as the drivers aren't compatible with win 8
[10:23] <S_Mark> ah yeah i remember!
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[10:23] <cde> Darkside: the bladeRF is calibrated afaik
[10:23] <S_Mark> finished soldering mine last night
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> you got a pic?
[10:23] <cde> Darkside: although, I'm not sure. one could ask on #bladerf
[10:26] <S_Mark> yeah one sec
[10:26] <S_Mark> http://twitter.com/stratodean/status/367230566413770754/photo/1
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> looks good S_Mark
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> when's it going up?
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[10:27] <eroomde> cde, i wouldn't have thought they'd be calibrated
[10:27] <S_Mark> not for a while yet, few things to do
[10:27] <eroomde> the front end chip doesn't really look up to it
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, look forward to it
[10:28] <cde> eroomde, it's got to be precise to a certain point I guess? considering it's used in femtocells
[10:28] <S_Mark> need to get this working and then get the new payload sorted, we have a few new things to try.
[10:28] Nick change: bo_sleeping -> Bo_DK
[10:28] <eroomde> cde, not in power particularly
[10:28] <S_Mark> but i seem to spend most of my time putting together ikea furnature at the mo!!
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[10:29] <eroomde> which is what is being talked about. i'm sure the xtal is calibrated, that's quite easy to do and would make sense
[10:29] <S_Mark> furniture with an i
[10:29] <eroomde> i don't much enjoy that job S_Mark
[10:29] <eroomde> have you moved?
[10:31] <Babs> I have put ikea furniture up for 5 of my mates to date. I think I am the only person in the world who enjoys it.
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[10:32] <eroomde> i just look at it thinking 'i'd have not made it like that' and then i get annoyed
[10:32] <eroomde> and drink
[10:32] <eroomde> design i disagree with can completely ruin my day
[10:32] <Babs> "i just look at it thinking 'i'd have not made it like that' and then i get annoyed"
[10:32] <Babs> are you sure you are putting it together the right way?
[10:32] <Babs> ;-)
[10:33] <Babs> the table with the legs pointing upwards etc.
[10:33] <eroomde> i just learnt to balance my plate
[10:33] <daveake> http://assets.dornob.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/hacked-wooden-ikea-furniture.jpg
[10:33] <cde> eroomde: ah quite right
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[10:34] <Bo_DK> morning all... at least in my part of the world
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[10:34] <Bo_DK> new nutter on the line....
[10:34] <Bo_DK> some might be here from last night
[10:35] <eroomde> ?
[10:35] <Bo_DK> allow me to give a short intro on what i'm working on
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[10:35] <Bo_DK> an autonomus tracking station based on the raspberry pi
[10:35] <daveake> eroomde Here's your problem - http://adland.tv/files/imagecache/storyinside/allenkey.jpg
[10:35] <Bo_DK> complete with software radio etc
[10:36] <Babs> eroomde - you are familiar with servos right?
[10:36] <eroomde> that's a spoof right daveake ?
[10:36] <eroomde> otherwise i need to go and sit down
[10:36] <eroomde> Babs, yes
[10:36] <daveake> Yes, an April 1st advert
[10:36] <Bo_DK> will be mountable on a camera tripod and be a setup and forget,,, almost
[10:37] <Bo_DK> can be controlled from home or anywhere you want
[10:37] <Babs> all servos that I have seen go to 180 degrees
[10:37] <eroomde> yep
[10:37] <Bo_DK> Babs: there are 360 ones
[10:37] <eroomde> or 120, often
[10:37] <Babs> although you can modify them for continuous rotation
[10:37] <eroomde> yep
[10:37] <Babs> Bo_DK - that was my question
[10:37] <Bo_DK> Babs: have seen them... but never hold one myself
[10:37] <Babs> why hasn't someone geared them up/produced an aftermarket gearbox to make them 360 degrees?
[10:37] <Bo_DK> Babs: will thou for my little project
[10:38] <eroomde> Babs, dunno. a lot of effort for not the biggest market maybe?
[10:38] <eroomde> you can't really use them in control linkages
[10:38] <Babs> hmmm. I see what you mean.
[10:38] <eroomde> i can't think of a massive number of scenarios where you want 360 degree but not continuous
[10:38] <Babs> stabilotron II
[10:39] <Bo_DK> Babs: think its either the potmeter or a simple lock pin to make them stop moving
[10:39] <Bo_DK> not sure thou
[10:39] <eroomde> if it's for say an azimuth mount, if 360 degrees you have an annoying discontinuity if you want to o from 360 degrees to 361 degrees
[10:39] <Babs> actually, I am thinking that roll and pitch on stabiltron II can be 180 degrees (if the thing is swinging so wildly its upside down, i'm unlikely to be taking any decent photos anyway)
[10:40] <eroomde> you could modify it to be 360 degrees though
[10:40] <HixWork> why not the brushless motor route?
[10:40] <eroomde> if you changed the feedback pot
[10:40] <Babs> and then yaw is some continuous motor (based on our discussion about contra rotating parts a couple of weeks ago)
[10:40] <eroomde> and got rid of any physical end-stops moulded into the gear train
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[10:40] <eroomde> which is a moment's dremeling
[10:40] <Babs> i bl00dy love my dremel
[10:40] <eroomde> i hate them
[10:40] <eroomde> devils tools
[10:41] <eroomde> for any given task, they're usually the wrong tool for the job
[10:41] <Babs> how can that be, with 1,780,465 different attachments?
[10:41] <eroomde> they're only the tool for the job when you don't have the right tool for the job. and as you know i'm quite wanky about having the right tool for the job
[10:42] <Babs> i am aware of that
[10:42] <eroomde> they're up there with adjustable spanners in the axis of evil
[10:42] <Bo_DK> THink i found some info on modding a servo....
[10:42] <eroomde> it's easy enough
[10:42] <HixWork> its like a hardware version of Margarine
[10:42] <eroomde> i must have modded many tens of servos for continuous rotation
[10:43] <eroomde> when i were a wee lad
[10:43] <Babs> Hixwork - is there an easy way of monitoring a brushless motor's position though?
[10:43] <Bo_DK> so far it says just to change the pot inside
[10:43] <HixWork> funny you should ask Babs....
[10:43] <Babs> modding a servo for continuous rotation is well documented, i haven't seen a mod for a 360 degree one
[10:43] <Bo_DK> ohhh
[10:43] <Babs> although i can't say i;ve looked.
[10:43] <eroomde> suspect you would replace the pot with a 360 degree one
[10:43] <eroomde> and try to not run the servo past the end of the pot's travel
[10:44] <Bo_DK> i thought you wanted to mod to 360 from a normal one
[10:44] <Babs> in other news, eroomde I have my IMU working on quaternions.
[10:44] <eroomde> nice!
[10:44] <eroomde> well done
[10:44] <Babs> i nicked the maths
[10:44] <Babs> semi well done on that basis
[10:44] <eroomde> best form of flattery
[10:44] <HixWork> ahh, bugger, it was brushed Babs http://goo.gl/qiXyMN http://goo.gl/BJLdQi
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[10:45] <Babs> brushed motors are soooo 2012 Hixwork
[10:45] <Babs> apparently
[10:45] <HixWork> servos are soooo my youth ;p
[10:45] <eroomde> same
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[10:45] <eroomde> i used to make little robotwars robots when i was 13
[10:45] <eroomde> 150g weight limit
[10:45] <eroomde> with servos modded to run continuously
[10:46] <Bo_DK> anyways.... of to my project
[10:46] <Babs> my immaturity knows no bounds at the moment.
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[10:46] <Babs> I can control my servo arduino wirelessly with my imu arduino
[10:46] <Babs> which means I can now annoy my wife with a buzzing servo from a different room
[10:47] <Babs> if i can find a way to attach it to the cat I am done
[10:48] <eroomde> to annoy the cat too
[10:48] <Bo_DK> Babs: hmmm.... looking for suggestions on the last bit?
[10:48] <Bo_DK> :-D
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[10:48] <eroomde> Bo_DK, so what's your project?
[10:48] <eroomde> a camera mount?
[10:49] <Bo_DK> eroomde half autonomus tracker
[10:49] <Bo_DK> ie for baloon tracking
[10:49] <eroomde> ah righty
[10:50] <eroomde> for the antenna?
[10:50] <Bo_DK> based on raspberry pi... and a dongle that allows a software radio to decode etc
[10:50] <eroomde> tracking directional antenna?
[10:50] <Bo_DK> both for antenna and the rest
[10:50] <Bo_DK> yeah... a yagi ant
[10:50] <eroomde> nice
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[10:51] <Bo_DK> want it to be mountable on a camera tripod
[10:51] <eroomde> nice
[10:51] <Bo_DK> and easy to use for other than me
[10:51] <eroomde> we built a similar thing for a yagi
[10:51] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270587250/in/set-72157627829326013
[10:51] <PB0NER> Oh, I have rotor controll projects here... based on RPi and it will integrate with hamlib
[10:51] <eroomde> a little python script grabbed the payload location from the web server and calculated the pointing angle
[10:51] <Bo_DK> it will require either 3G... wifi or wired internet
[10:51] <Bo_DK> hmmm....
[10:52] <Bo_DK> then you have almost done my work
[10:52] <Bo_DK> my setup will include a gps thou
[10:52] <PB0NER> I am doing this for a field sat station
[10:52] <Bo_DK> so you can have it anywhere
[10:52] <eroomde> well, making it work is only an hour or so of hacking. making it work reliably would be a cool project
[10:52] <eroomde> this included gps too
[10:52] <Bo_DK> without much thinking
[10:52] <eroomde> otherwise how would the antenna know where it is!?
[10:53] <Bo_DK> eroomde: excatly
[10:54] <PB0NER> yes... I am working on stuf around predict.. for sat tracking but indeed tracking a boloon base on payload data was one of the things I was going to implement
[10:54] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270108065/in/set-72157627829326013
[10:54] <eroomde> that is the control board
[10:54] <Bo_DK> you have it in eagle?
[10:54] <eroomde> it had an audio jack too to control the radio for our uplink
[10:54] <eroomde> yes
[10:54] <eroomde> well not here
[10:55] <eroomde> it was like an hour's work several years ago
[10:55] <eroomde> barely worth sharing
[10:55] <Bo_DK> hehe....
[10:55] <Bo_DK> but nice for ideas thou
[10:55] <eroomde> was just an avr and a gps and the appropriate interface to the rotator controller
[10:55] <PB0NER> I can get hold of a az/el rotor from a immarsat rig from a ship... gyro stabilized.. some project for my VW Bus
[10:56] <eroomde> and i think an ftdi chip for usb comms with the python script
[10:56] <eroomde> PB0NER, that would be cool
[10:56] <eroomde> we were offered that too
[10:56] <PB0NER> trace car...
[10:56] <eroomde> but it wanted something wierd like 400V 200Hz AC
[10:56] <eroomde> and my analogue electronics wasn't very hot back then
[10:56] <eroomde> so i didn't fancy making that power supply
[10:56] <mfa298> Bo_DK: for the direction tracking side of things you might find looking at HABRotate useful: https://www.thecraag.com/HABrotate
[10:56] <Bo_DK> eroomde: how did you do uplink?
[10:57] <Bo_DK> ie to home
[10:57] <Bo_DK> or where you would be
[10:57] <eroomde> oh, via the laptop running the python script
[10:57] <eroomde> that could use whatever - wifi, wired ethernet, 3g dongle
[10:57] <PB0NER> this one is based on stepper motors... I am going to 'delete' aal the electronics
[10:58] <PB0NER> habrotate is useless to me.... windows
[10:58] <mfa298> PB0NER: it's written in python
[10:58] <eroomde> the software can't be that smart anyway. should be difficult to rewrite
[10:58] <mfa298> and I'm pretty sure the code is all in Github
[10:58] <Bo_DK> eroomde :-D
[10:58] <eroomde> how hard is it to work out a pointing angle?
[10:58] <PB0NER> oh cool but : 'The software is compiled for Microsoft Windows and has been tested on'
[10:59] <eroomde> python compiled?
[10:59] <eroomde> what devilry is this
[10:59] <PB0NER> habrotate-cli.exe ....?!?!
[10:59] <PB0NER> or it might use py2exe
[10:59] <mfa298> PB0NER: I think that's just because most of the people using it are on windows and probably don't want to play with python on windows
[10:59] <cde> python is always compiled from syntax to AST to bytecode
[11:00] <eroomde> if the hardware has a serial port, i would have thought it would be honestly a few minute's work to write your own scipt with pyserial to control it
[11:00] <PB0NER> as I said.. py2exe might be used
[11:00] <Bo_DK> heheheeh.... i choosed the raspberry pi as its small and does not consume much power
[11:00] <Bo_DK> the other smaller side of my project is to make it recharge a small lead acid battery from small solar panels
[11:00] <PB0NER> with little modification you can even reduce the power consuption of the Pi
[11:01] <mfa298> I pointed to it as it could be a good starting point for these other projects. Saves having to work out how to query relevant data from habhub.
[11:01] <Bo_DK> i know
[11:02] <Bo_DK> benefit for me is that i have tools to do SMD at home
[11:02] <PB0NER> I build a python library for SPI/I2C boards from Bitwizard.nl and use those to make computer controlled rotors
[11:02] <Bo_DK> small reflow oven... pick and place machine
[11:02] <mfa298> Bo_DK: what were you planning on using for the Software radio side of things. I've experimented with a few things but not had much joy so far.
[11:02] <Bo_DK> mfa2 i know a britt that said he had something almost ready
[11:03] <PB0NER> have a look at http://www.bitwizard.nl for the boards i support
[11:03] <Bo_DK> he have build a s software radio that only need slight mod to work on pi
[11:04] <PB0NER> added to my library are support for stuf like sp5055 (PLL Ic) and more is coming
[11:04] <mfa298> Bo_DK: is that the webradio software from Mike ?
[11:04] <cde> Bo_DK: but the RPi has no ADC right?
[11:05] <PB0NER> RPi has no aadc.. good thing is you can use your own
[11:05] <Bo_DK> the dongle itself is one for DVB-T tv system, but for this purpose it does not matter
[11:05] <Bo_DK> it will pass raw data to software
[11:06] <PB0NER> I have got a working set-up with dvb-t dongle but CPU power makes it somewhat troublesome
[11:06] <Bo_DK> cde: nope.. and not needed... let me find a link to dongle
[11:07] <PB0NER> I was going to try to make a rtty decoder 'only' by interfacing it directly to RTL-SDR over a local socket
[11:08] <mfa298> the rtl_fm app looks promising as that appears to support USB/AM etc as well as FM now. Although I've not had much luck getting it to produce audio yet.
[11:09] <Bo_DK> damm.....
[11:09] <PB0NER> damn... what?
[11:09] <Bo_DK> lacking cpu power
[11:10] <PB0NER> that is why I wanted to interface directly to the raw datastream and use pypy jit compiler to reduce load and still use python
[11:11] <Bo_DK> but oh well.... think that i need to do hardware first... ie platform and electronics
[11:11] <PB0NER> pypy is excellent and has (beta) native ARM support now
[11:11] <Bo_DK> hmm....
[11:11] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Just out of curiosity, looking at the way Upu did the TPS61201 for the Habduino, his polygon widths were 0 and he told me to keep them at 0. I'm still a bit confused as to why it won't export properly so I'll just leave it until later
[11:12] <mfa298> with rtl_fm the issue is more options than cpu power though - I've used it to listen to Broadcast FM on the pi.
[11:12] <Bo_DK> need an site for project... or can that part wait?
[11:12] <mfa298> someone who's on here from time to time is also working on a websdr which he hopes to get working on the Pi http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio
[11:13] <mfa298> but it needs a bit too much cpu at the moment.
[11:13] <PB0NER> I played a lot with the FM-TX option on PWM-OUT on the Pi... that is way cool
[11:13] <Bo_DK> mfa298: that my man in UK
[11:13] <mfa298> Bo_DK: I wondered if it was.
[11:13] <Bo_DK> mfa298 he also showed me a dirt cheap way to build antenna
[11:13] <mfa298> When I was talking to him last we were hoping the FCD might be better as well as it's a lower bandwidth
[11:14] <PB0NER> antenna's are dirt cheap
[11:14] <PB0NER> unless you buy them...
[11:14] <Bo_DK> heheh
[11:14] <Bo_DK> but think i will dive in to eagle....
[11:15] <Bo_DK> hmm... got servo on it.. not connected thou
[11:15] <PB0NER> but aren't you supposed to use the word aerial?
[11:15] <Laurenceb> i hate elon musk
[11:15] <Laurenceb> now im getting no work done
[11:15] <Bo_DK> does gps modules come with ic2 interface?
[11:15] <Bo_DK> would sound indeal
[11:15] <PB0NER> never seen those
[11:16] <cde> Laurenceb: why do you hate him?
[11:16] <PB0NER> but fairly easy to maken with a at-tiny
[11:16] <Bo_DK> oh well if gps is the only thing then it can go uart i assume
[11:16] <Laurenceb> now im spending my day redesigning hyperloop so its cheaper
[11:16] <Bo_DK> PB0NER: :-D
[11:16] <Laurenceb> i dont see why he used steel tube...
[11:17] <PB0NER> hyperloop: link?
[11:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf
[11:17] <PB0NER> tnx
[11:17] <mfa298> The UBlox modules might have i2c on them (there's something that's not serial)
[11:17] <PB0NER> oh thought it was some sort of aerial...
[11:18] <Laurenceb> hAHAHAA
[11:18] <PB0NER> read about Tesla's desing this morning
[11:18] <Bo_DK> well i will be in egale... will pop back and forth a bit... but pm me if you have info directly related to what i try
[11:20] <mfa298> the Ublox breakouts at habstores have serial and SCL & SDA for I2C: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[11:21] <PB0NER> looking at that tells me the module itself has i2c
[11:21] <mfa298> so if you used the Ublox GPS module i2c should be possible if you didn't want to use serial. Although I think when someone tried using i2c on the Pi there were some issues
[11:21] Action: daveake wakes up
[11:22] <daveake> Yes, the Pi i2c doesn't support "clock stretching" at arbitrary times.
[11:22] <PB0NER> no issues on i2c on Pi, use it all the time
[11:22] <daveake> So I ended up modifying some bit-bang code
[11:22] <daveake> with ublox max 6?
[11:22] <PB0NER> indeed no clock streching
[11:23] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[11:23] <daveake> I've used several i2c devices but only the ublox gives trouble
[11:23] <Bo_DK> hmm
[11:24] <Bo_DK> so this one is a no no?
[11:24] <Bo_DK> or can it be used with some trouble?
[11:25] <daveake> The ublox can be used but only (unless anyone knows better) with bit-banging code
[11:25] <Bo_DK> ok... its only to get pos of a tracking station
[11:25] <daveake> I've used that on several flights no issues except it is of course more cpu-hungry than h/w i2c
[11:26] <PB0NER> interesting:-> http://www.bitwizard.nl/wiki/index.php/Reducing_power_consumption_of_a_raspberry_Pi
[11:26] <Bo_DK> brb.. need to call and cancel a phone subscription
[11:27] <PB0NER> haha, make the call first... then cancel
[11:27] <Bo_DK> yep
[11:27] <daveake> PB0NER I did that on one flight. Actually the 5V regulator isn't always needed so that can often be dropped
[11:27] <Bo_DK> pm important info...
[11:27] <Bo_DK> will dive straight in to eagle after
[11:27] <Bo_DK> Q:
[11:27] <daveake> <advert_mode> http://www.daveakerman.com/?page_id=1294 </advert_mode>
[11:27] <Bo_DK> should i make a site for this project at this stage?
[11:28] <PB0NER> I have to make a call too... but contact me I I can help out with the rotor stuff
[11:28] <eroomde> no it's against the law
[11:28] <eroomde> yes, but only after debate
[11:28] <eroomde> yesnoyes
[11:29] <eroomde> maybe put it to a vote
[11:30] <Laurenceb> eroomde: read the hyperloop pdf?
[11:30] <eroomde> scanned
[11:30] <Laurenceb> i never thought of that one
[11:30] <Laurenceb> its genius
[11:30] <Laurenceb> kind of...
[11:30] <eroomde> it's engineering
[11:30] <Laurenceb> i dont get why its steel tube
[11:30] <eroomde> no magic bullet, just a combination of techniques
[11:30] <Laurenceb> precast concrete would be way cheaper
[11:31] <eroomde> my interest level is 4000x lower than is required to have a conversation about tube construction material choice
[11:31] <Babs> Something has got to get the steel industry in the US back up and running
[11:31] <eroomde> sorry
[11:31] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:31] <Laurenceb> itd be harder to align precast concrete
[11:31] <Laurenceb> but you could have an extruded alu "rail" down the middle
[11:32] <PB0NER> I'm off for a while...
[11:32] <Babs> isn't it floating within the tube?
[11:32] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:32] <Laurenceb> so a semicircular extruded alu low half
[11:32] <Babs> in which case i don't know whether the steel thing has an impact for some electro shennanigan floating malarky
[11:32] <Laurenceb> *lower
[11:32] <Laurenceb> sitting on ploymer foam
[11:32] <Laurenceb> its air based hovering
[11:33] <Laurenceb> its works out at about half the price of his steel tube
[11:33] <Laurenceb> i dont get why hes using steel
[11:33] <Babs> actually ordering alu in the US is really problematic though. He might have considered this.
[11:33] <Laurenceb> seems easy to knock $2B off the cost
[11:34] <Babs> he wouldn't be able to source the alu though
[11:34] <Laurenceb> the polymer foam takes out extra noise as well
[11:34] <Laurenceb> and some motion
[11:34] <Laurenceb> maybe...
[11:34] <Laurenceb> you could even use off the shelf sewer pipes...
[11:34] <Laurenceb> maybe
[11:36] <Babs> the amount of times London sewers collapse, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable travelling at 800mph through them
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[11:37] <cde> Babs: why is it problematic?
[11:37] <gonzo__> most of the london sewers are brick built victorian vintage
[11:38] <Babs> ede - because he would send out lots of orders for "aluminum", and no one in the civilised world would understand what metal he was talking about
[11:38] <Babs> gonzo - i wasn't serious about travelling at 800mph through London sewers. I'll leave that to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
[11:38] <Darkside> alu mini um
[11:39] <Babs> exactly Darkside, exactly.
[11:39] <Laurenceb> i meant the off the shelf precast concrete sewer pipe
[11:40] <HixWork> is it so hard to aorder Aluminium in the US as the computer systems take the word literally and show no matches nationwide?
[11:40] <cde> Babs :)
[11:40] <Laurenceb> its cuz its an unpatriotic metal
[11:41] <Babs> "Freedom Aluminum"
[11:41] <HixWork> support our struts
[11:41] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:41] <Laurenceb> yeah thats other huge issue with steel
[11:41] <Babs> "Leave no pipe behind"
[11:41] <Laurenceb> it needs struts
[11:41] <Laurenceb> or it will collapse
[11:42] <Laurenceb> how the hell is he going to make ~1 thousand miles of that tube
[11:42] <cde> Laurenceb: but if you were to attach hydrogen balloons to it, then it'd be fine
[11:42] <Laurenceb> going to email him, see if i get a reply :P
[11:43] <Babs> the guy is all hype. for all his chat about it being a travel revolution, the main reason why he isn't going to build it is "I don't have time"
[11:43] <eroomde> i have his email address :)
[11:44] <Laurenceb> talking of which
[11:44] <Laurenceb> UPS guy just dropped off linear motor with air bearing
[11:44] <Laurenceb> completely coincidental
[11:44] <HixWork> them sort of things http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.aspx?series=LCA-xx
[11:45] <HixWork> bugger, not here
[11:54] Nick change: GeekShad1w -> GeekShadow
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[12:01] <LeoBodnar> got that eBay motor Laurenceb ?
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[12:14] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:14] <Laurenceb> i would set it up
[12:15] <Laurenceb> but work meeting in 30 minutes...
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[12:19] <Ugi> Babs: did you manage to get copies of the Metro to send to eroomde? Just wondering before I put my copy out to recycle.
[12:22] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:22] <Laurenceb> hyperloop steam system seems flawed
[12:23] Nick change: Bo_DK -> Bo_DK_Working
[12:27] Action: SpeedEvil_ ponders.
[12:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf
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[12:27] <SpeedEvil_> Is the hyperloop steam system something that lets you download games as you commute at really high velocity.
[12:27] <Laurenceb> page 18
[12:27] Nick change: SpeedEvil_ -> SpeedEvil
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Stop with this hyperloop thing, concentrate on getting properly reusable rockets going, with electric vehicles as a sideline.
[12:28] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Musk is just tryint to be _too_ awesome.
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[12:29] <Laurenceb> figure 10 is curiously lacking details on the steam
[12:29] <Laurenceb> maybe cuz it wont work :P
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[12:31] <Laurenceb> tho CO2 might work...
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> 'for as little as 1% of the tube length, so is not particularly coslty'.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I buy a couple of miles of linear induction motor with pocket change.
[12:38] <Laurenceb> that part too
[12:39] <Laurenceb> but i think it looks feasible to put the linea motor on the cars
[12:40] <Laurenceb> with just soft iron drive rail
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> I don't understand why they're cooling the air.
[12:40] <Laurenceb> me neither
[12:40] <Laurenceb> run a hot tube under the car
[12:40] <Laurenceb> then only cool the air bearing air
[12:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.ejsong.com/mdme/memmods/MEM23041A/thermo/open_systems_files/enthalpy_diagram.gif
[12:43] <Laurenceb> say the steam is at ~200C, 2MPa
[12:43] <Laurenceb> they need 29 cubic meters
[12:44] <Laurenceb> not going to happen
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> Also, it seems to me that they're missing a massive trick
[12:44] <Laurenceb> unless they exhaust into the tunnel
[12:45] <Laurenceb> but then they need concrete tube
[12:45] <Laurenceb> or it will corrode
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Cross-couple the two tubes with large diameter couplings every couple of meters, and now you have just doubled your expansion volume.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> (and yes, raised issues with crossing cars)
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> If you remove the couplings every n meters, and arrange your cars to cross at that portion - then you eliminate side-side buffeting, and trade it for drag
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> This is actually a smokescreen.
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> He's wanting to hide the purchase of 100km of rocket tubes, for his massive mars invasion.
[12:48] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:48] <Laurenceb> im totally unconvinced now
[12:48] <Laurenceb> too much steam
[12:49] <Laurenceb> also im sure theres simpler ways
[12:50] <Laurenceb> e.g. some sort of synthetic ice
[12:50] <Laurenceb> self amalgamating polymer or some sort
[12:50] <Laurenceb> then skis
[12:50] <bertrik> transparent aluminium!
[12:50] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:50] <Laurenceb> http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html
[12:51] <Laurenceb> hmm looks like you wouldnt want water vapour in there
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder how much of this is bullshit to cover up a real slightly saner design.
[12:51] <Laurenceb> it has to be pumped out
[12:51] <Laurenceb> yeah me too
[12:51] <Laurenceb> the steam thing is just plane wrong
[12:51] <Laurenceb> and steel tube seams insane
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Why?
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Steel isn't really very expensive.
[12:51] <Laurenceb> it still needs the reinforcing flanges
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> And it has lovely fatigue properties.
[12:52] <Laurenceb> tons of welding
[12:52] <Laurenceb> then it can corrode
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Covering it over the whole length with solar panels helps a bit there.
[12:52] <Laurenceb> decent quality precast concrete lasts ~forever
[12:52] <Laurenceb> i guess
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Concrete tubing is going to be fucking heavy.
[12:53] <Laurenceb> about 1T/meter
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> And need much, much more massive pillars, or mean direct burial is required.
[12:53] <Laurenceb> not that bad
[12:53] <Laurenceb> nah
[12:53] <Laurenceb> weathering steel columns every 10m
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> It's also not elastic enough
[12:53] <Laurenceb> thats why you have an extruded alu rail in the middle
[12:54] <Laurenceb> on foam mounting
[12:54] <Laurenceb> then the tube doesnt need to be aligned too neatly
[12:54] <Laurenceb> just silicone the ends and suck the air out
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> In some ways I like the skytran proposal a lot more.
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> Rather more modest.
[12:54] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:55] <Laurenceb> skytran seems sane
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Though the two would dovetail wonderfully.
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[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Musk did have my favourite tweet ever though.
[12:56] <Laurenceb> the more i look at figure 10 the more im convinced its all bull
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> Elon Musk @elonmusk 6 Jun
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> No near term plans to IPO @SpaceX. Only possible in very long term when Mars Colonial Transporter is flying regularly.
[12:57] <Laurenceb> heh
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[12:57] <Laurenceb> hmm yeah figure 10 is just plane wrong
[12:57] <Laurenceb> no way itll ever work
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> I do wish that they'd get the next rocket launched to play with the landing system.
[12:58] <Laurenceb> at least like that...
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[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Is there any real reason to cool the air bearing stuff?
[12:58] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:58] <Laurenceb> or the second stage compressor will overheat
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:59] <Laurenceb> T=59K ?
[12:59] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[13:00] <Laurenceb> im guessing it should say 590K
[13:00] <Laurenceb> it all makes no sense at all
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[13:01] <SpeedEvil> 590K going to 400K makes no sense
[13:01] <Laurenceb> theres a heat exchanger in there..
[13:01] <Laurenceb> but thats got steam going into it
[13:02] <Laurenceb> ooh i have an idea
[13:02] <Laurenceb> maybe theres radiative heat exchangers
[13:02] <Laurenceb> for the steam to recondense
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> They're clearly teaming up with Ed, to do a proper heat exhcnager ro the air
[13:02] <Laurenceb> looks like it
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - 590K is what...
[13:02] <Laurenceb> it needs a skylon heat exchanger on the front
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> 500W/m^2?
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> 2kw/m^2 radiatively
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> that's not enought
[13:04] <Laurenceb> might be...
[13:04] <Laurenceb> id imagine 20 m^2 would fit
[13:04] <Laurenceb> thats 40Kw
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> The other question is with the heating from the trains - will the air inside the tunnel overheat dramatically if you don't extract most of that heat and dump it at the stations.
[13:05] <Laurenceb> hmm no
[13:05] <Laurenceb> its about 250Kw of heat
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Sure - I agree that the tubes can easily dissipate that.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> But will the air reach a really, really high temperature to force that out of the tube walls
[13:06] <Laurenceb> i doubt that
[13:06] <Laurenceb> theres a ton of tube area
[13:06] <Laurenceb> if they only cooled the air bearing air...
[13:06] <Laurenceb> it gets a bit easier
[13:07] <Laurenceb> and the nozzle gives more thrust - higher ISP
[13:07] <Laurenceb> but still its >100Kw to dump
[13:07] <iain_g4sgx> Upu: You about? Got a Max6 question.
[13:07] <Laurenceb> maybe they could use some sort of oil that has low vapour pressure
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what happens if you use a water with a slightly reducing atmosphere atmosphere.
[13:08] <Laurenceb> water vapour pressure is too high
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> Then all of the steam makes more sense.
[13:08] <Laurenceb> then collect the oil from bottom of the tube
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> No, I mean for the whole atmosphere. No 'air'
[13:08] <Laurenceb> as it condenses off the walls
[13:08] <Laurenceb> yeah sure
[13:08] <Laurenceb> water vapour pressure is way too high for that
[13:08] <Laurenceb> like ~50mBar
[13:08] <eroomde> we need an Lb + SE channel
[13:08] <Laurenceb> the system is at 1mBar
[13:08] <eroomde> #fantasy-engineering
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> Err - you don't have to put more than that in. :)
[13:09] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:09] <Laurenceb> eroomde: you mean like hyperloop
[13:09] <Laurenceb> check out figure 10
[13:09] <Laurenceb> utter bs
[13:09] <Laurenceb> anyway, work calls
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> Also, the above is clearly designed as a martian transport system.
[13:12] <cde> he's a true visionary. you can't deny it
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> No.
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> He's taken the millions he made from paypal, and basically started living the dream.
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Rather than doing usual boring rich person stuff.
[13:14] <eroomde> you probably could deny it
[13:14] <eroomde> just because absolutes don't belong in wishy washy social stuff
[13:17] <cde> he's a true visionary. you can deny it
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[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> HixServer: Still no luck with the TPS61201. I've attached the Eagle files here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6ttarxd7y0q3z4/MuJXp8NMyh . On that version, I've gotten rid of every polygon around that regulator and I've kept the ground plane going over the top. Even looking at the LiPo example and the Habduino board, I still can't copy what they've done
[13:19] <wobblebobble> Anyone know on an external GPS antenna that Will work with the ublox
[13:20] <Babs> Sorry Ugi - was in meeting - yes, he's got more copies on his way than he can shake a stick at
[13:21] <eroomde> thanks cde :)
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[13:23] <cde> you're welcome, bro
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> wobblebobble: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=80 These generally work great outdoors but you could always consider an active antenna which are a little more expensive but work better indoors.
[13:23] <eroomde> i think he's good
[13:24] <eroomde> he has numerate and has enough physics to see the wood for the trees
[13:24] <eroomde> and has loads and loads of capitol from the dot-com boom
[13:24] <eroomde> and that's a powerful combo
[13:24] <Laurenceb> ah finally
[13:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.navigantresearch.com/blog/hyperloop-faces-technical-hurdles
[13:24] <Laurenceb> someones spotted it
[13:24] <eroomde> but the salivating among nerds thing is a bit off-putting
[13:24] <Babs> he's got people talking and interesting in engineering, and i think thats good.
[13:25] <eroomde> they seem to think he's tony stark
[13:25] <Laurenceb> " Although the thermodynamic calculations are correct,"
[13:25] <Laurenceb> WRONG
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[13:25] <Babs> but its totally unfeasible
[13:25] <Laurenceb> it might be feasible
[13:25] <Laurenceb> the pdf version is completely unfeasible
[13:25] <Laurenceb> basic idea looks promising
[13:26] <Babs> has it even been mentioned the cost of tunnelling for 347 miles or so?
[13:26] <Laurenceb> huh
[13:26] <Laurenceb> its on poles
[13:26] <Babs> theory yes.
[13:27] <Babs> i think the US government would baulk at the prospect of a 347 mile long terrroist target
[13:27] <Babs> or even a terrorist target
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[13:27] <eroomde> well they build trains
[13:27] <eroomde> and they've been blown up before plenty of times
[13:28] <mattbrejza> also you only have a few people in one pod
[13:28] <Babs> yes, but hitting a moving train is difficult. plus they come along relatively infrequently.
[13:28] <Bo_DK_Working> Just looking up from eagle.... Q: would it at all be possible to launch in us and try yo land it in say Denmark?
[13:28] <Babs> but you can attack this thing when static.
[13:28] <eroomde> Bo_DK_Working, it's possible to try
[13:28] <eroomde> making it succeed might be difficult
[13:29] <Bo_DK_Working> eroomde.... just a brainfart from me
[13:29] <Babs> placing a security perimeter around a 347 mile long target would be costly
[13:29] <eroomde> there have been transatlantic balloons before
[13:29] <eroomde> anything more than that, and that's up to the winds and maybe you having altitude control
[13:29] <Babs> i'm looking it from a business point of view. from a theory can we build it point of view it would be fascinating.
[13:29] <eroomde> i.e. if the winds are favourable higher or lower, can you adjust the balloon's alt to get into them
[13:29] <Bo_DK_Working> yeah... thought of small vale to let gas out
[13:30] <HixWork> I can see Speed XIV being thought up already
[13:30] <Babs> hixwork: arf
[13:30] <eroomde> well you can't get it back once you've let it out
[13:30] <eroomde> which is probably of limited use
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[13:30] <Bo_DK_Working> and i guess helium tank dont come in say 12gram versions....
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[13:30] <Bo_DK_Working> like for paintball guns
[13:31] <eroomde> tanks are tanks
[13:31] <eroomde> you can put whatever gas you like in
[13:31] <eroomde> provided they are compatible with the tank materials
[13:31] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[13:31] <eroomde> but i suspect the tank that holds the helium will always weigh more than the helium
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[13:31] <eroomde> for any decent pressure anyway
[13:32] <Bo_DK_Working> hehe
[13:32] <Bo_DK_Working> anyways... back to eagle... control for servos in place
[13:32] <eroomde> nice
[13:32] <Bo_DK_Working> plenty for both pos yagi
[13:33] <Bo_DK_Working> but also to track the sun... ie for solar panel to charge battery
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[13:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6m01VGiNPI
[13:33] <Babs> *cough* sky anchor *cough*
[13:33] <Babs> someone has to build one.
[13:34] <Bo_DK_Working> out.... but will whatch pm's
[13:34] <eroomde> what's a sky anchor?
[13:35] <Babs> clicky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_anchor
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[13:36] <costyn> Babs: nice... might be something to try out with small balloons first?
[13:36] <HixWork> 4.7l @ 300bar cylinder is 3Kg plus the gas, whats that worth liftwise. -ve i guess
[13:36] <Babs> costyn - yes, i think so. the maths would be fun too.
[13:36] <Babs> for those who find maths fun.
[13:37] Action: costyn looks at eroomde
[13:37] <eroomde> busy
[13:37] <costyn> :)
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[13:42] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_material
[13:42] <Laurenceb> ^how to do hyperloop perhaps?
[13:47] <Ugi> Babs: Thanks for the repy - I was distracted by work too then.
[13:47] <Ugi> I'll recycle mine then
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[13:49] <Laurenceb> ok this is interesting
[13:49] <cde> Laurenceb: consider reading "Hyperloops - u're doing it wrong". by Elon Musk
[13:50] <Laurenceb> hes doing it wrong
[13:50] <Laurenceb> i suspect deliberately
[13:50] <Laurenceb> i was just doing the numbers for a slush mix in the water talk
[13:50] <Laurenceb> *tank
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[13:50] <Laurenceb> works out at 290Kg for the setup in figure 10
[13:51] <Laurenceb> how suspicious....
[13:51] <cde> obviously, he has a far more sinister purpose in mind
[13:51] <Laurenceb> i think it really has a bypass duct to the back and uses ice slush mix to cool the bearing air
[13:51] <Laurenceb> then all the thermodynamics works and the numbers are consistent
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[13:56] <SpeedEvil> makes sense
[13:57] <Laurenceb> im thinking hes deliberately misleading
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> the numbers seem even better with crossducts though
[13:57] <Laurenceb> tho the nozzle thrust should be higher
[13:57] <Laurenceb> like 300N or smore
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> fan power goes way down.
[13:57] <Laurenceb> maybe...
[13:57] <Laurenceb> im wondering if the fan can do some of the acceleration
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> it is more complex to make the tubes
[13:58] <Laurenceb> yeah - i dont see it being worth it
[13:59] <PB0NER> I would replace the batteries by a fuel tank and replace the compressor by a SR-71 engine.....
[14:01] <Laurenceb> or an LOX/LH2 rocket on the back
[14:01] <Laurenceb> and let the water condense on the walls ZD
[14:01] <Laurenceb> *XD
[14:04] <Laurenceb> hmm this actually looks feasible again
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[14:11] <Joel_re> hey, what baud does one need to write to the NTX2 module at?
[14:12] <Joel_re> or is that independent of transmission rates
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[14:12] <daveake> Joel_re It's exactly the same
[14:13] <daveake> The NTX2 just changes the Tx frequency according to the voltage it sees. That's it.
[14:13] <daveake> So you send to it at whatever speed you want to receive at ... typically 50 baud for telemetry or 300-600 for images
[14:14] <Joel_re> ok
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[14:17] <Joel_re> is there a reason behind 50 baud or the rate being very low like that?
[14:17] <Joel_re> sorry if this is a complete noob question
[14:17] <nigelvh> Reliability and signal strength
[14:17] <nigelvh> Faster baud rates require MUCH more power to get good reliability.
[14:18] <nigelvh> 50 baud is fast enough to get a bit of text down, but still is VERY reliable.
[14:18] <daveake> And it sounds nicer :p
[14:18] <Joel_re> ok
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: with my current setup because I'm only sending telemetry, would it make more sense for me to use 50 baud 8N2 as opposed to 300 baud 8N2?
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> Reliability sounds good
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[14:23] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: with the pi you're limited to what the hardware uart can do (same is true with anything using a hardware uart). I've seen mixed comments on here as to whether the pi can happily for 50 baud
[14:24] <daveake> 50 baud gave some problems when I tried it
[14:24] <daveake> I'd stick with 300 rather than change
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I'll stick with 300 then :)
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[14:24] <daveake> Remember, all your testing has been at 300 so you know that works
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, good point
[14:25] <mfa298> plus at least in the UK you've got a lot of listeners (compared to the flights in Spain etc)
[14:26] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah. I'm looking forward to it
[14:27] <daveake> Remind me what date you're hoping for?
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[14:27] <ibanezmatt13> August 24th (Saturday)
[14:27] <daveake> ok cool
[14:27] <daveake> Well except I won't be around :p
[14:28] <daveake> But it avoids my flight so that's good ;)
[14:28] <ibanezmatt13> I've organised it with Steve but apparently he's pulled his arm and can't drive :/
[14:28] <daveake> ouch!
[14:28] <ibanezmatt13> I sent him an email on Friday and I've not heard anything
[14:29] <daveake> Surely he can type with his other hand? :)
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> I would have thought so :)
[14:29] <daveake> He gets quite busy sometimes
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> Yea, I hope it all works out.
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> He was on Dick and Dom the other day, CBBC
[14:30] <daveake> Ah yes, that was on TV a while back
[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> They look like a right pair of planks
[14:30] <daveake> I thought that, but Steve said they were hilarious
[14:30] <daveake> He really enjoyed it
[14:30] <Bo_DK_Working> Q: any suggestions for a compas sensor with ic2 interface... if at all possible?
[14:31] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: Will Steve be joining us for the recovery? I've not been able to ask him yet
[14:31] <daveake> You need one with an accelerometer
[14:31] <eroomde> he might not
[14:31] <daveake> he might not?
[14:31] <eroomde> if it's for the tripod mounting thing discussed earlier
[14:31] <eroomde> and it's a decent rip head with a spirit level
[14:31] <daveake> aah
[14:31] <Bo_DK_Working> it is
[14:32] <daveake> in that case HMC5883L
[14:32] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> He said we could borrow a chute to save us buying one. So I assumed he'd be coming to collect the chute and if not, collect the money :P
[14:32] <eroomde> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/7915
[14:32] <daveake> I say this as if I've compared them, but I have that one and it seems to work
[14:32] <Bo_DK_Working> it just so user does not need to point in a initial direction
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[14:32] <eroomde> you will need to ensure it's level though
[14:32] <Bo_DK_Working> yep
[14:33] <eroomde> we couldn't really do that, so we made up a thing
[14:33] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 He has to be there as it's his name on the notam
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> I meant for tracking and recovery
[14:33] <daveake> oic
[14:33] <eroomde> where we asked the user to point at one thing then point at the other (we had a good horizon from our spot) eg one churchil spire then another church spire
[14:33] <eroomde> that defines a plane in 3d space
[14:33] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[14:33] <eroomde> you are still david
[14:34] <Bo_DK_Working> will add a kind of buble thing with lines so its level
[14:34] <Bo_DK_Working> user only need to make sure its level
[14:34] <Bo_DK_Working> then electronics take over
[14:34] <eroomde> yep
[14:34] <eroomde> also make sure everything is made out of plastic
[14:34] <Bo_DK_Working> gps added thou
[14:34] <Bo_DK_Working> yep...
[14:35] <Bo_DK_Working> laser cut acrylic wold be nice
[14:35] <Bo_DK_Working> but no access to laser
[14:35] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: Are you launching on 24th?
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[14:35] <eroomde> there are web services for such things iuw
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> Well, if the predictions are ok
[14:36] <Bo_DK_Working> but that for a later stage... prototype will be MDF
[14:36] <Bo_DK_Working> mabýbe coated in varnish
[14:36] <Ugi> I also have that date as a hopeful - weather looks clear with an easterly or southeasterly wind according to forecast
[14:36] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Just remember that predictions frequent indulge in their favourite habit of messing up flight plans
[14:37] <Ugi> where are you launching from?
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> yes daveake :)
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> Ugi: Elsworth, Steve's site
[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> He said if it's just us launching on that date, we have to pay for his travel arrangements
[14:37] <Ugi> OK. Apparently there is also another balloon due to go up in Cambridge that day. Most likely before ours.
[14:38] <Ugi> Could be that we will push back to 25th - it's down to the CUSF lot a bit
[14:38] <Bo_DK_Working> back to eagle....
[14:38] <Bo_DK_Working> will watch pm if any questions
[14:38] <daveake> I'm hoping for a twin NTX2 flight on the 25th
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[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> 25th's a no-goer :)
[14:38] <eroomde> wyzat?
[14:38] <daveake> Good :)
[14:38] <daveake> I mean
[14:38] <daveake> bad :/
[14:39] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[14:39] <Ugi> daveake: I have an NXT down-tuned to .065 - will that be far enough off?
[14:39] <daveake> 5kHz ... erm dunno
[14:39] <daveake> However I may have another option :)
[14:39] <Ugi> if not, could you up-tune your .075 a little?
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[14:40] <Ugi> we can always aim for different times of day
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[14:40] <eroomde> he won't even give you the time of day
[14:40] <Bo_DK_Working> will those launches go over north sea?
[14:40] <Bo_DK_Working> just curious
[14:41] <daveake> hah
[14:41] <eroomde> where are you Bo_DK_Working ?
[14:41] <daveake> Yeah can do or see plan B in PM
[14:41] <Bo_DK_Working> Denmark
[14:41] <eroomde> ah righty
[14:41] <eroomde> i like denmark
[14:41] <Bo_DK_Working> just if anything drops here
[14:41] <Bo_DK_Working> Odense if you want city
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[14:41] <daveake> I've been to Kolding a few times, not so far from there
[14:42] <Bo_DK_Working> nope
[14:42] <Bo_DK_Working> my parents live there
[14:42] <eroomde> i've only been to copenhagen, and driven through on the way to sweden before
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[14:42] <daveake> Oh, the big bridge/tunnel?
[14:42] <daveake> That's fun
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[14:43] <Bo_DK_Working> so i have a few places to set up a tracker
[14:43] <eroomde> yes
[14:43] <Bo_DK_Working> but arround me there is farm land so just need to drive like max 1km
[14:43] <Bo_DK_Working> to get clear of building
[14:43] <Bo_DK_Working> or 2 trackers and i can walk 200 meters
[14:44] <Bo_DK_Working> maybe a bit more
[14:44] <Bo_DK_Working> not messured that yet
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[14:44] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: what freq are you on?
[14:44] <Bo_DK_Working> oh well....... lets get hardware sorted first
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[14:45] <Bo_DK_Working> pm with q's....
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> err, .65 Ugi
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> Subject to change
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[14:46] <Ugi> fab - that's handly 'cos ATM we are on '065 (down-tuned .075 NTX2)
[14:46] <Ugi> so we could both fly together no issues
[14:47] <eroomde> the poly-pin of bright beer is best before tomorrow
[14:47] <eroomde> we're having a terrible time in the office trying to finish it off
[14:47] <eroomde> we've invented the git drinking game
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> cool :)
[14:48] <eroomde> the basic rule is a drink per commit
[14:48] <eroomde> but the stakes get higher as you do more complicated commands
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[14:49] <eroomde> and you have to finish your drink before doing anything that can change history
[14:49] <Ugi> sounds like it's shaping up to be a busy weekend on 24/2
[14:49] <Ugi> 5
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[14:51] <mfa298> eroomde: sounds like a good game. Just as long as the code remains readable/understandable.
[14:52] <eroomde> everyone trying to hold at the ballmer peak
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[14:52] <eroomde> the problem is you can't commit for ages cos that will send you over
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[14:52] <eroomde> so you have to write loads and loads of code while riding the wave
[14:52] <eroomde> and then try and clean it all up into logical, atomic commits
[14:53] <eroomde> anyone who hasn't learnt about add --patch has done so now
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[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon chrisstubbs
[15:05] <Chetic> is this a good antenna for the chase-car when using an NTX2 transmitter? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nagoya-Dual-band-UT-105-SMA-Male-mobile-antenna-for-Ham-radio-VHF-UHF-2m-70cm/111142215166?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D17172%26meid%3D541352588985359009%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D8015%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D111110466535%26
[15:05] <Chetic> I don't understand what's 38cm
[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> Chetic: Not sure about that one but you can't go wrong with these: http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/mr-77_2m_70cm_70w_50cm_long_black_metal_whip_magmount_4m_cable_with_pl-259_plug-p-8894.html
[15:07] <Ugi> I bought this one and it seems to work fine: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300532623151
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[15:07] <chrisstubbs> Hey
[15:08] <Chetic> I'll get the same as Ugi
[15:10] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: S_Mark was telling me earlier that there's a flaw with the schematic for Stratodean 3. The bypass pin on the linear regulator should have been connected to a capacitor and it instead is connected to GND. So he said he's had to cut the bypass leg off. I checked my schematic only to realise that I have the same issue :/
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> oh noes, have you sent it to fab?
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> yeah that was a pesky one to debug
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> it was hard for him as he had already soldered it
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> I mean, I don't mind cutting the leg off so long as it works :)
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> just cut the bypass pin off the reg
[15:11] <mfa298> for preference I'd probably get the one ibanezmatt13 linked to, although the other two will probably work. I just don't trust chinese descriptions especially as I use such antennas for transmitting as well - and a bad antenna isn't so good for a transmitter
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I will. I've already started work on v2 :)
[15:11] <chrisstubbs> yeah the capacitor just improves stability in a highly noise sensitive circuit, so would have been better
[15:12] <chrisstubbs> but will work without, plus i hope you would have decoupled your gps etc
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, oh well. On v2, I'm trying to put in a step up boost converter
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: apart from the servere problems I'm having with connecting it all up, the rest of the board looks ok: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6ttarxd7y0q3z4/MuJXp8NMyh
[15:13] <chrisstubbs> Those boosts are nice, looking forward to having a go soldering one on as soon as mine are done
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: I'm really struggling with the TPS61201 in the board view
[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> I've tried all sorts
[15:13] <chrisstubbs> let me take a look
[15:13] <HixWork> Chetic this comes highly recommended, and is a good price http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[15:14] <chrisstubbs> oh Upu/UpuWork the woman at the post office had a rant about you putting the tracking sticker in the plastic bag. Please keep doing that!
[15:14] <chrisstubbs> It winds her up SO much
[15:14] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 have you properly looked over the LiPo33 brd file? Its all there
[15:14] <HixWork> chrisstubbs :D
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> Yep, I've studied it for 2 hours straight earlier
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: The problem is to do with the polygons
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> When I run the hackvana.cam, it says "polygon x has huge plot data" for loads of polygons
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> Then gerblook says it can't render the background
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> And, it looks as though all the polygons I've made for the TPS61201 are connected to the ground pour which they shouldn't be :/
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> okay errr
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> the one you sent me has no polygons
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> oh yeah, I deleted them because I thought they were all wrong :/ I've lost track of what I'm doing with this stupid chip
[15:20] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 http://i.imgur.com/gaTwiuo.png everything passes on the LiPo33 [exceptions are the things which you can see, but they are all approved] copy exactly what he's done
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I've tried to emulate that exactly, I can't get it to work for some reason. I'll try it again shortly but it just won't work
[15:22] <HixWork> you aren't plonking a ground pour over the top of it are you?
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[15:22] <HixWork> use the info tool and note down the settings [he's set to mils, just change it in the grid options to mm]
[15:22] <HixWork> no ground pour over the top of it. around it, fine but not over it
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> Upu told me to put it over it. That's what's confused me
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> And all the polygons were connecting to it
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> I thought to myself, I could have a separate GND polygon for the things that need GND, then I could just use a few vias to connect it underneath. Are you sure I don't need the GND plane on top? It is on the habduino
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[15:27] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, pm
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[15:29] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 the GND pout, which is only a small square is rank 2. was yours? look at the brd file and the settings
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[15:31] <Laurenceb> top
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[15:35] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 just had a look and it works pretty well on your board with GND at rank 2 http://i.imgur.com/wCl8M78.png
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[15:35] <HixWork> not run DRC though
[15:35] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[15:35] <nigelvh> DRC is important
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[15:39] <HixWork> drc is fine if you move the polygons around a little ibanezmatt13
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[15:45] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 this is the kind of tweaking http://goo.gl/nQfl1u
[15:45] <ibanezmatt13> thanks HixWork I'll have a look
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[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> that's precisely what I've been trying to do HixWork. chrisstubbs is just showing me something on join.me at the minute but that's what I've tried to achieve
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[15:48] <HixWork> GND to rank 2?
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[16:02] <Willdude123> Hi
[16:02] <Willdude123> BBB does cause interference of some sort
[16:04] <eroomde> to the gps?
[16:04] <Willdude123> Yes
[16:04] <Willdude123> Seems like it
[16:04] <Willdude123> Can't see much happening on 1.5ghz
[16:04] <eroomde> how is the gps being powered?
[16:05] <Willdude123> FTDI
[16:05] <Willdude123> Looses lock when the BBB comes near
[16:05] <eroomde> nice
[16:06] <bertrik> sorry, what's a BBB?
[16:06] <Laurenceb> big bdsm barnacle
[16:07] <Laurenceb> eroomde: hyperloop thermodynamics look like nonsense to me
[16:08] <chrisstubbs> Does it have a built in 808 camera?
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[16:09] <eroomde> what's the exec summary of why?
[16:09] <Laurenceb> 1) theres too much heat 2) theres no volume for the steam
[16:09] <bertrik> oh, beagle bone black?
[16:10] <Willdude123> Beaglebone Black
[16:10] <Ugi> chrisstubbs: the yagi that you got - did it have a TNC connector? If so, what did you do with it? I'm struggling to find adaptors
[16:10] <Laurenceb> but.. if you swap the water for slush puppy it will work, if the nozzle air isnt cooled
[16:10] <Laurenceb> intriguingly i solved the maths and got 290kg of slush...
[16:10] <Laurenceb> i think theres some deception hiding in the pdf
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[16:11] <chrisstubbs> Ugi it was a N type
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> I got a RG58 N connector from maplin
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> and stuck a SMA on the other end of a bit of RG58
[16:13] <Ugi> OK - I'm not sure I have the right terminology (no pun intended) for the connectors. I'll see what an N-type look slike
[16:13] <Ugi> Thanks - I may be able to do something similar
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> Hahha
[16:13] <chrisstubbs> TNC is threaded BNC
[16:13] <Laurenceb> i just dont think elon musk is that stupid
[16:13] <Laurenceb> and most of it is really watertight
[16:14] <mfa298> hmmm, I never added pictures of an N plug to the wiki rf connector page
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> ugi http://bit.ly/1bs9mt7
[16:14] <chrisstubbs> N to N to SMA to BNC
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> Not exactly idea
[16:15] <chrisstubbs> l
[16:15] <mfa298> You can get convertors for almost anything - although the fewer joins the better.
[16:15] <Ugi> well, if it works then that will be fine by me
[16:16] <Ugi> you can't seem to get TNC to SMA
[16:16] <Ugi> they only com ein reversed polarity - at least anywhere I can find them
[16:16] <Ugi> but maybe it's not actually TNC anyway
[16:16] <mfa298> you can get TNC to BNC, but TNC is a fairly unusual connector
[16:16] <Ugi> may wel lbe N-type
[16:16] <chrisstubbs> Mine is N, just checked
[16:16] <Ugi> well be
[16:17] <mfa298> Ugi: what's it on ? - Can you take a picture ?
[16:17] <chrisstubbs> Massive rip off: http://ebay.eu/1bs9PM0
[16:17] <chrisstubbs> but thats what you want
[16:17] <chrisstubbs> OH NO ITS RP-SMA
[16:17] <Ugi> It's on a yagi - and I can when I get homw but that won't be for a few hours yet. if I can't work it out I'll take a snap tomorrow.
[16:17] Action: chrisstubbs shoots ebay seller
[16:18] Action: daveake shoots whoever invented RP-SMA
[16:18] <mfa298> Ugi: most likely it's an N, PL259/SO239 or BNC if it's not an SMA
[16:18] <Ugi> looking for SMA to TNC (which may well be wrong anyway) one or both ends always seems to be RP.
[16:18] <Ugi> Fu##ers
[16:19] <Ugi> it's not SMA or BMC - I have adaptors for those.
[16:19] <Ugi> BNC
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> Ugi is it the one off aliexpress?
[16:19] <mfa298> I've only seen TNC used on a couple of handheld CB radios and RP-TNC on some Cisco Access Points.
[16:19] <Ugi> Man my typing sucks today
[16:19] <eroomde> ACRONYMS
[16:19] <mfa298> Ugi Is it the same size as a BNC or bigger ?
[16:20] <Ugi> I'll need to put them together when I get home but I could believe it's bigger
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[16:20] <Ugi> it's likely N-type 'cos it's essentially the same antenna that chrisstubbs has
[16:20] <mfa298> N is a fair bit bigger than TNC
[16:20] <mfa298> Will see if I can do a comparison picture
[16:21] <Ugi> I've never seen either before but I can compare with BNC when I get home
[16:21] <Ugi> I'm tempted just to cut it off and put a BNC on instead.
[16:22] <Ugi> but that seemed like cheating
[16:22] <Billabongo> if i am putting an external antenna on a handy i always use tnc to sma
[16:22] <Billabongo> *bnc
[16:23] <eroomde> it's worth, often, putting sacrificial adaptors on the rf connectors of equipment
[16:23] <eroomde> in general
[16:24] <Ugi> sacrificial in the sense that you put them on and leave them forever
[16:24] <Ugi> ?
[16:24] <eroomde> yes
[16:25] <eroomde> because rf connectors are usually only rated to a (often surprising low) specific number of mating cycles
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[16:25] <Ugi> I have no issue with that - it's just finding the right thing from the bewildering array of options and polarities that's troubling me.
[16:25] <eroomde> so it's a shame to use up the life of the connector on what you hope is a lasting bit of equipment
[16:25] <Ugi> Yes - I read that SMA was only good for 100 connections under ideal conditions
[16:26] <eroomde> find the recent video explaining all of rf connectors
[16:26] <Billabongo> are these easy to setup http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271172859271?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648
[16:26] <Billabongo> is it just a case plug it in and it works
[16:27] <mfa298> Ugi: it's not a brilliant picture but that's a selection of connectors so you can compare sizes https://www.dropbox.com/s/3450bxt71dcshyy/2013-08-13%2017.25.23.jpg (the other end of the TNC is a BNC-F
[16:28] <Ugi> thanks mfa298 I reckon it's N from that
[16:28] <mfa298> N would seem likely if it's not sma/bnc
[16:29] <mfa298> and you get get lots of N to stuff adapters
[16:30] <mfa298> I've not get got into standardizing on anything so just have a large box of adapters instead (means I can convert most things so something useful)
[16:30] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_connector
[16:30] <eroomde> N is v common
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[16:31] <mfa298> if you're going to standardise on something N is a good option (unless you want something small)
[16:31] <mfa298> and I've seen them used on all sorts of kit.
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[16:35] <Ugi> Sounds like this is what I'm looking for: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200655791782
[16:36] <chrisstubbs> ugi f-plug is used for skytv
[16:36] <chrisstubbs> not likley on your antenna
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[16:36] <mfa298> I'm sure tou can get it for less than £6 as well
[16:36] <Ugi> Sorry - I searched for N & it gave me F! Don't you love e-bay!
[16:37] <Ugi> I'll keep trawling - I'm sure China RF is cheaper but they'll take a month
[16:38] <mfa298> If you don't mind waiting http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360675529873
[16:39] <mfa298> although having it on a pigtail might be safer (short bit of rg58 in the middle)
[16:39] <mfa298> watch out for anything that has RP in the title, They're not conductive to good RF
[16:40] <Ugi> Yeah - found a pigtail from a UK supplier but £7 - that's about half what the yagi cost!
[16:41] <Ugi> pigtail here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261250009427
[16:41] <englishman> try amazon? i see some for 2
[16:41] <Ugi> englishman: fab' thought. Will do. Ta'
[16:41] <englishman> get a jumper and chop in half = 2for1
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[16:42] <ibanezmatt13> Has anybody here got any experience with the BMP085 temp and pressure sensor?
[16:42] <ibanezmatt13> Not the breakout
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[16:49] <PB0NER> yeah! wrote some python code for that a while ago...
[16:49] <Babs> coding question if I may: if i use the available() command in the serial library, it returns a positive if data is available
[16:49] <PB0NER> but dinner is being served
[16:49] <Babs> no great shakes there
[16:50] <Babs> but my question is, if I then read that data, does the available command then return a negative (ie a false) if i use it again
[16:50] <eroomde> about the X-15 aircraft
[16:51] <eroomde> "Lou Rapp, of RMI, flying across the continent, found him-self with a knowledgeable seat mate, obviously in the aerospace busi-ness, who asked him his opinion of the motor. Lou blew up, and declared, with gestures, that it was a mechanical monster, an accident looking for a place to happen, and that he, personally, considered that flying with it was merely a somewhat expensive method of sui-cide."
[16:51] <PB0NER> ibanezmatt13 I'll be back in 30 minutes or so
[16:51] <Babs> as in if i read a byte of data, is it then automatically removed from the buffer, or do i have to do some kind of clear command to clear the buffer?
[16:51] <Babs> thanks
[16:51] <eroomde> refering to a propellent combination for which I am currently designing the injector
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> sure PB0NER thanks
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[16:56] <Bo_DK_Working> Q: some of you dudes gave me a link on how to make the raspberry pi consume less power
[16:57] <Bo_DK_Working> lost that one
[16:58] <Ugi> Babs: I'm pretty sure it's remobed from the buffer. But remember that there are extra characters like CR etc to account for before the buffer is empty
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: :)
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: H2O2?
[17:00] <Babs> hmm. Thanks Ugi - yes, I thought that might be a problem too. I guess given the buffer is of limited size then I could For input, you could just read (and ignore) it until it's empty, and then proceed after that?
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> How not to launch balloons.
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23681200
[17:01] <daveake> lol
[17:01] <daveake> oops
[17:02] <Babs> I basically want to read the serial buffer of one arduino for a signal that data has been received from a second arduino, read the data that has come across with the signal and then clear the buffer and wait for another signal that new data has come across and do the same again
[17:02] <Ugi> there used to be a command to clear the buffer but they removed in in Arduino 1.0 IIRC (I assume we are talking about Arduino)
[17:02] <eroomde> SpeedEvil, nope
[17:02] <Babs> ugi - yes arduino
[17:03] <Babs> but reading and ignoring once i have the required data until the serial buffer is cleared should do it i think?
[17:03] <eroomde> Babs, as an architectural point i almost always try and decouple the specific uart handling stuff from the main program logic
[17:03] <eroomde> i do this with ring buffers
[17:03] <eroomde> they're my datastructure du choix
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[17:03] <Babs> I don't even have a data structure of choice in english, let alone french
[17:03] <Babs> poor the babs
[17:04] <eroomde> leboob
[17:04] <eroomde> well, can i commend ring buffers to your attention
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[17:05] <Babs> eroomde - if I'm in confessing mode, I also use libraries
[17:05] <eroomde> it nicely abstracts the hardware stuff away from the main programme code
[17:05] <eroomde> libraries are ok in general
[17:05] <Babs> http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/ex44.html
[17:05] <eroomde> i just never see the need for them in embedded
[17:05] <eroomde> that's the jizzum
[17:05] <Babs> asynchronous I/O - it sounds as if it is what I am after
[17:06] <eroomde> except from the looks of it he uses function pointers which are, if you're being all safe-like, against the jpl coding standards for sats and stuff
[17:06] <eroomde> but i think it's probably allowable for something as generic and simple as a ringbuffer
[17:07] <Babs> so you use a ringbuffer to basically limit the size of the buffer to the size that you need. is that the main idea?
[17:07] <Babs> or at least the thrust behind using one?
[17:07] <Ugi> Babs: if you want to flush the arduino serial buffer for whatever reason, you just read it until it returns zero: while (Serial.read() >= 0);
[17:07] <eroomde> the thrust is that you have a little block of ram
[17:08] <eroomde> say a list of 128 byte slots
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[17:08] <eroomde> and you have two pointers to it
[17:08] <eroomde> one pointer is the pointer that says how far the little block has been filled
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[17:08] <eroomde> and the other pointer says how far in the block you have read
[17:09] <eroomde> the uart handling bit of code is only interested in the write pointer. it says 'i've just received a byte, where in this block should i put it?' and the write buffer will be at, say position 100 so the uart handling code will write the new byte to location 101
[17:09] <Babs> thanks Ugi - that makes sense I think.
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AWewOTjaef8&t=55 - balloon launch - showing people with pikes.
[17:10] <Ugi> if there's no data in the buffer then Serial.read() returns zero.
[17:10] <eroomde> the main code might say 'what's in the buffer?' and look at the read buffer which will say 'you've read as far as position 27' and it'll say 'ok well grab me the next howevermany bytes'
[17:10] <eroomde> when you write or read as far as the top of the buffer, you drop back to the start and start overwriting
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[17:11] <eroomde> you can optionally implement logic to handle if the write pointer laps the read pointer. what i usually do for embedded is keep the read pointer equal to the write pointer if the write pointer tries to overtake it
[17:11] <PB0NER> ibenezmatt13 the master is back!
[17:12] <Babs> eroomde - I'm unsure if I am getting a bunch of information A1,A2,A3.....An sent through though (where n may change for each read/write cycle), and I know I need just A1 and A2 (say), how I can determine whether A1 and A2 are newly sent or not
[17:12] <eroomde> but the usual use case is you say 'read me everything that's in the buffer' which will read out what the read pointer is pointing at, then incrememnt the read pointer, until it has caught up with the write pointer
[17:12] <eroomde> you can tell if they're newly sent with a ring buffer
[17:12] <Babs> or do I read A1 and A2, and based on the fact that I know they are always in a specific part of the buffer, once I can read a positive value from these addresses again, then I know they are new?
[17:14] <eroomde> if you size your ring buffer right, and you make it so that the write pointer can't overtake the read pointer, then i think you can guarantee that A1 and A2 are the latest ones, if you see them
[17:14] <eroomde> but i'm not sure i fully understand the question
[17:16] <Babs> prob too complex to discuss on here I reckon, I'll see whether I can get the basic version working and then move to make it more efficient by reading up and trying to implement the ring buffer method
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[17:18] <eroomde> the vague and handwavey advice i usually give is that solving a given software problem with not the right datastructure or algorithms results in a horrible clunky mess
[17:19] <eroomde> and that solving it with the right data structures and algorithms makes the whole thing incredibly simple and nice
[17:19] <eroomde> and you know when you discover the right way to do it
[17:23] <Babs> I agree. I've got a mate who codes for a living and once I've got it working he's going to give me a few pointers to put it in a nicer more appropriate structure. its pretty small at the moment so could be entirely rewritten pretty easily I reckon, but I'm not going to get too deep into it before i know the foundational structure is how it should be
[17:25] <eroomde> indeed. throwaway prototype first
[17:25] <eroomde> wish i could do that more with circuits
[17:25] <eroomde> i always want to make a prototype pb, and that slows things down
[17:25] <jcoxon> "to give me a few pointers " pun intended? I hope so :D
[17:26] <Babs> for once, an unintended pun jcoxon..
[17:26] <iain_g4sgx> upu: you about?
[17:26] <Babs> as i don't know what a pointer is, primarily
[17:27] <eroomde> C makes a great deal more sense once you grok pointers
[17:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:27] <eroomde> it's basically all about moving pointers around
[17:27] <cde> and using them. by accessing memory!
[17:27] <cde> or should I say, to access memory
[17:28] <Steve_2E0VET> does anyonew use the icsp port on the arduino
[17:30] <eroomde> plenty do!
[17:30] <eroomde> plug in your programmer
[17:30] <eroomde> and the rest of it depends on your operating system and so on
[17:30] <Steve_2E0VET> just wondered if there is anything special i need to do to upload via arduinos software
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[17:31] <eroomde> well, if you use ICSP you might risk overwriting the arduino bootloader on the chip
[17:31] <Steve_2E0VET> i plug it in and get a comport, led flashes on the programmer but when finished uploading the arduino software says avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync
[17:32] <eroomde> that is the standard error that could be lots of things. it just means the programmer can't see anything
[17:32] <eroomde> which programmer are you using with the icsp?
[17:32] <eroomde> for the icsp*
[17:32] <Steve_2E0VET> AVR-ISP500
[17:33] <Steve_2E0VET> https://www.olimex.com/Products/AVR/Programmers/AVR-ISP500/
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[17:33] <eroomde> ok. and what else is plugged into the arduino?
[17:34] <Steve_2E0VET> just the other usb for power
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[17:34] <Steve_2E0VET> i could just put power in via the power socket
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[17:37] <eroomde> sorry, phone
[17:37] <eroomde> don;t power it externally
[17:37] <eroomde> just power it through the programmer
[17:37] <eroomde> try that
[17:37] <eroomde> (the programming header has power in theory)
[17:37] <Steve_2E0VET> ok trying
[17:38] <Steve_2E0VET> nope
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[17:38] <Steve_2E0VET> but just read this AVRDUDE requires the serial port name, assigned by the Operating System
[17:38] <Steve_2E0VET> to AVR-ISP500. It must be given with the -P command line option.
[17:39] <eroomde> got the right programmer selected in the tools thing?
[17:39] <Steve_2E0VET> argh no
[17:39] <eroomde> yeah, i don;t use arduino so i'm guessing a bit here
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[17:39] <eroomde> but i do use avrdude
[17:39] <Steve_2E0VET> any idea which driver it is
[17:39] <eroomde> is there an option for avr-isp?
[17:40] <Steve_2E0VET> there are 2 avr isp and
[17:40] <Steve_2E0VET> avr isp mkII
[17:40] <eroomde> try both
[17:40] <eroomde> but also if neither work try reading through this
[17:40] <eroomde> http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/Programmer
[17:40] <Steve_2E0VET> it was on the mk2 trying the other now
[17:41] <Steve_2E0VET> ok... now i'm reading
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[17:57] <Willdude123> Hello
[18:00] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A2E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:02] <Willdude123> Hi Lunar_Lander
[18:02] <Willdude123> You ok?
[18:03] <Willdude123> ping Upu BBB causes interference, I think
[18:03] <Steve_2E0VET> eroomde, no joy, maybe need to find someone who has arduino and AVR together
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I am ok, thanks
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> what about you?
[18:05] <eroomde> i'd keep at it yourself
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[18:05] <eroomde> i'm 99% sure this won't be a complicated problem
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[18:05] <eroomde> avrlander is all too noddy
[18:05] <eroomde> avr-land*
[18:05] <eroomde> and you never learn as much by asking other people before having a few hours of fight yourself
[18:06] <Steve_2E0VET> eroomde, just trying random things at the moment
[18:06] <Steve_2E0VET> eroomde, do you use windows
[18:06] <eroomde> correct board in tools>board?
[18:06] <eroomde> nope
[18:06] <Steve_2E0VET> yes
[18:06] <Steve_2E0VET> ok
[18:07] <eroomde> linux and never looked back
[18:07] <mfa298> hopefully that's random things with some idea of what effect it might have. Just randomly changing settings is never a good solution
[18:07] <Steve_2E0VET> it doesnt even say which way round to put the connect on lol
[18:07] <eroomde> unless it's a genetic algorithm
[18:07] <eroomde> well yes, you have to work that out
[18:07] <eroomde> don't try both, you'll destory something
[18:07] <eroomde> work out the correct way from the schemtics
[18:07] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, im trying to get my avr-isp500 working with arduino
[18:11] <mfa298> I'm assuming you've made sure that windows reckognises it
[18:12] <daveake> Then it should just be setting it in the Arduino IDE menu, and remembering to hoild down the SHIFT key when you click the program button
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[18:20] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, yes
[18:21] <Steve_2E0VET> just working through schmatic to get the plug the right way round
[18:23] <mfa298> I would assume there's a marking on the pcb for pin1 and pin 1 on the connector should be marked with a red stripe
[18:23] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, surprising not
[18:24] <Steve_2E0VET> the 10 pin cable has a red stripe but not the 6
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[18:24] <Steve_2E0VET> anyway found it
[18:24] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, never new about the holding shift (is that also when using avrdude)
[18:24] <HixPad> Ping ibanezmatt13
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> Hi HixPad
[18:24] <daveake> Believe so
[18:25] <HixPad> Hi ibanezmatt13 get the polygonsaga sorted?
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> sorted yes
[18:25] <HixPad> Sweet :)
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> as you said, just needed a bit of moving :)
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> So simple...
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> HixPad: http://gerblook.org/pcb/eRCDo7Nq8AHZm2xFLqwzi6
[18:25] <HixPad> Yup an
[18:25] <Steve_2E0VET> ok new error now did not find any USB device "usb"
[18:26] <HixPad> ibanezmatt13: Front and back same colour is difficult on pad
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> what do you mean HixPad ?
[18:27] <HixPad> Gerblook it's difficult to see. All red. No probs. it's all fixed up tho
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> I think so yeah :)
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> It awaits an upu-verification :)
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> tomorrow my fellas from the balloon team and I will try out some KiCAD schematic and PCB drawing
[18:29] <eroomde> good fellas
[18:29] <HixPad> Upu-Vu
[18:29] <chrisstubbs> I still think we need a Upu(tick) logo for pcb's
[18:29] <HixPad> I should make an effort with kicad really
[18:29] <Steve_2E0VET> is it possible to rename devices in windows, it seem sto be complaing about not being able to find a specific device
[18:30] <fsphil> Uproved
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:30] <chrisstubbs> That way we can officialy blame him for any errors ;)
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[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi chrisstubbs
[18:31] <HixPad> Tbf the guys on hackvana are really helpful, saves overloading the Yorkshire router
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[18:32] <chrisstubbs> Hah very true :)
[18:33] <HixPad> ##electronics which SpeedEvil put me onto is also a gem
[18:33] <HixPad> I wish there was a central lookup for irc channels, there are some awesome ones that are nigh on impossible to find
[18:34] <bertrik> ##electronics is rarely about electronics unfortunately
[18:34] <mfa298> in theory you can use /list to find channels on a server / network
[18:34] <mfa298> although it's usually a long list
[18:35] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, got the camera to dump out its buffer to a text file to cross compare with the source in Hex, the only problem is with the 0x00-->0x20 you pointed out
[18:38] <HixPad> Ha, cad churns up recoveringaddicts
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[18:40] <fsphil> something in lua must be doing that chrisstubbs
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Is there a 12 step program for autocad addicts?
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Actually - I guess not - it'd be in lisp.
[18:40] <chrisstubbs> just joined #lua to pick some brains
[18:40] <fsphil> trying to be helpful by changing nulls to spaces
[18:41] <HixPad> Yes SpeedEvil stop stop stop stop...... You get the idea :)
[18:43] <HixPad> I'm currently going through the pain of looking at vba for Catia customisation. Awful
[18:45] <eroomde> lisp would be not so bad
[18:45] <eroomde> nothing is worth vba
[18:45] <HixPad> It's the only way I can see of doing it
[18:46] <fsphil> death before vba
[18:46] <HixPad> Bring out yer dead it is then :)
[18:47] <HixPad> I don't do code but it looks shit
[18:47] <fsphil> vb actually stands for Very Bad
[18:48] <eroomde> lisp looks scary too at first glance
[18:48] <HixPad> Why does lisp have an s in it? It's just like the words illiterate and dyslexic
[18:50] <fsphil> the other choice was lifp
[18:51] <HixPad> In fact Catia has its own subculture, CATScript
[18:51] <HixPad> Zose crazy French
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[18:54] <HixPad> eroomde: How is the ruuski hipster valve preamp coming along?
[18:54] <eroomde> got it working
[18:54] <eroomde> reverse engineered from the pcb
[18:55] <eroomde> valves are interesting...
[18:55] <eroomde> and i gave myself a nice 300V shock
[18:55] <HixPad> Nice, do you get a cut from hoxton
[18:55] <eroomde> apparently once 'racked' it'll be worth £2k
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[18:56] <HixPad> Phew, performance better than something you could buy for <£200?
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[18:57] <eroomde> an op-amp would do it better
[18:57] <eroomde> £5
[18:57] <HixPad> Op amps for everyone :)
[18:57] <mattbrejza> well performance depends on whether youre an 'audiophile' or someone with a bit of lab equipment
[18:57] <eroomde> yes
[18:58] <eroomde> if you can do addition and multiplication, suddenly the world becomes more boring
[18:58] <eroomde> if you're an audiophile though, unicorns and magic ponies and 'immersive 3d soundscapes'
[19:00] <daveake> http://www.head-fi.org/t/126816/the-ultimate-audiophile-funny
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[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> I've just modified my launch announcment on the mailing list because I've got two trackers on board as opposed to one. If anybody's launching on the 24th August could you let me know if there are gonna be anyclashes
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> any clashes *
[19:04] <mattbrejza> i think you can safely say youve shotgunned those frequencies for that day
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> probably, but best to be sure
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> Did you say you were on the wirral?
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza:
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> argggg
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> freaking hyperloop
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> why am i so obsessed with it
[19:06] <chrisstubbs> daveake, I like where that link is going...
[19:06] <daveake> :)
[19:06] <mattbrejza> wirral?
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> There's a hill 5 minutes away from my house from which you can see the Welsh mountains mattbrejza.
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> I may be going up there tomorrow with the payload to test it out
[19:07] <mattbrejza> nope not me
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> who was that then...
[19:07] <mattbrejza> bit of a cross country trek to launch then
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> certainly is
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> we needed to launch in a place where there were people to help, we don't even know how to tie the knots
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[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> by the way, how can I work out what the frequency of my payload actually is? It's a .650 NTX2 but I can decode on frequencies below that
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> Do I just say, 434.650
[19:11] <Randomskk> hey ibanezmatt13 we were talking about voltage doublers
[19:11] <Randomskk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCtTlUlHXo
[19:11] <Randomskk> check that out!
[19:11] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Randomskk
[19:11] <Randomskk> it's Classic
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[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> Randomskk: Wow, I didn't know they'd been invented then
[19:12] <Randomskk> haha seriously
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> why the nacy?
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> navy*
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> why would they need to know that]
[19:12] <Randomskk> not sure it's going to cover modern dc-dc ones as they didn't really have integrated circuits
[19:12] <Randomskk> yea I have no idea!
[19:13] <Randomskk> maybe for their technicians to learn how the things worked for repairs
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:17] <HixPad> ibanezmatt13: Brings kite and fly the payload from it?
[19:18] <HixPad> S/brings/bring a
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> haha, good idea
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> well
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> I can't fly kites
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> They just crash before they get up
[19:21] <HixPad> Simple kites just fly
[19:21] <Astrobiologist> Can I ask a newbie APRS question?
[19:22] <HixPad> Make a delta. Simple design if you hae some plastic
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> not when i'm flying it HixPad :)
[19:22] <HixPad> And sticks
[19:22] <HixPad> Could be a great range tester
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> I think a tall hill is probably more practical :)
[19:23] <HixPad> Tall hill + kite better ;)
[19:23] <HixPad> -polygons ;p
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> lol, yes
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[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> stupid zeusbot
[19:27] <chrisstubbs> Dont be mean to our good zeusbot
[19:27] <x-f> bots can't lie
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> by the way, would 434.552Mhz and 434.646 clash?
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[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> I assume not but I've not got a good radio knowledge
[19:29] <PB0NER> depends on bandwith used
[19:29] <PB0NER> but for 50nd rtty... no
[19:29] <ibanezmatt13> well, one is 50baud, the other is 300
[19:30] <mfa298> your bandwidth should be under 1khz even for the 300bd
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> is bandwidth the shift between the tones?
[19:30] <mfa298> so even with some drift they shouldn't get close to clashing
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> why do people go tired?
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> thanks mfa298
[19:30] <mfa298> bandwidth is going to be related to shift and speed.
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> So a 450Hz shift, is that not bandwidth?
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> [Radio is not my strongest subject]
[19:31] <PB0NER> 434.646 - 343.552 = 0.094 Mhz
[19:31] <PB0NER> (434.552
[19:32] <PB0NER> i'm not sure about the bandwith of 300bd
[19:32] <mfa298> voice comms generally use 3KHz or more bandwidth
[19:32] <PB0NER> voice yeas
[19:32] <mfa298> rtty I think the bandwidth will be a bit over the shift size.
[19:33] <PB0NER> shif has nothing to do with bandwith
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> what is bandwidth?
[19:33] <mattbrejza> bandwidth is the shift+2xbaud
[19:33] <mattbrejza> (minimum)
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better google this
[19:33] <PB0NER> mfa 298 you are right, but there is a gap in between
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[19:33] <PB0NER> computing bandwith?
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> are you sure this zeusbot is any good? :)
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> I'll Google it manually
[19:35] <PB0NER> I think it is a bit close
[19:36] <PB0NER> of one of them drifts a bit....
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[19:36] <PB0NER> they are 94kHz apart though
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> should be fine
[19:37] <mfa298> I don't think anything has drifted more than a few khz.
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> So what would happen if there were two flights at the same time with the same frequency?
[19:37] <mfa298> as long as they're >10khz apart there shouldnt be an issue
[19:37] <PB0NER> they will end up on one radio's waterfall
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[19:38] <PB0NER> or I'm wrong, not really good at that
[19:38] <Upu> evening
[19:38] <mfa298> with 50bd rtty chances are you could still decode unless the carriers end up exactly on top of each other.
[19:38] <mfa298> but it makes life harder
[19:39] <PB0NER> indeed, if one starts drifting due temperature...
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: You got mail
[19:39] <Upu> Yup I see
[19:39] <PB0NER> I would use at lease 1 or 2 Mhz apart
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> evening :)
[19:39] <fsphil> it's not spam
[19:39] <Upu> all good then ?
[19:39] <PB0NER> morning
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> tps61201 is working now, just needs an upu-verification. Equipment received too
[19:40] <PB0NER> (i'm optimistic)
[19:40] <Upu> upu verification :/
[19:40] <Upu> I make more mistakes than anyone else tbh :)
[19:40] <Upu> whats the link ?
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> one sec
[19:40] <Upu> watch that reflector element on that yagi
[19:40] <Upu> with the pink tape on it
[19:41] <mfa298> PB0NER: there isn't enough space in the ISM band for payloads to be 1MHz apart
[19:41] <Upu> the tape is basically holding it on
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6ttarxd7y0q3z4/MuJXp8NMyh
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I noticed that
[19:41] <Upu> its ok I predict everyone will be using TCXO based stuff in 6 months
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[19:41] <Upu> New NTX2B from Radiometrix is pin for pin compatible but has a TCXO on it
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[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> Also Upu, how should I solder at the launch site in the middle of the field?
[19:43] <Upu> gas powered iron
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[19:43] <Upu> £10 from B&Q
[19:43] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad has a mains plug adapter for his car. Would that work with my normal one?
[19:43] <Upu> what batteries are you planning on running NORB from ?
[19:44] <Upu> possibly if the invertor is powerful enough
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAs
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> 6x
[19:44] <Upu> 2 x ?
[19:44] <Upu> no for NORB
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> sorry
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> err, v2, one AA
[19:44] eroomde (~ed@cpc3-oxfd20-2-0-cust553.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:44] <PB0NER> 50bd bandwith is 270hz
[19:44] <ibanezmatt13> v1 probably about 3-4 AAs
[19:44] <Upu> ok
[19:45] <Upu> that via up by the GPS antenna needs moving in slightly
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> which one?
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> under it?
[19:45] <Upu> oh found a big one :)
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> :O
[19:46] <Upu> the one that fails dimension check
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds marvellous
[19:46] <Upu> https://join.me/442-615-459
[19:47] <Upu> ok
[19:47] <Upu> move that some where
[19:47] <Upu> got that one ?
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> think so, just need to move the via?
[19:48] <Upu> yes
[19:48] <Upu> ok now the big one :)
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear...
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:48] <Upu> that via
[19:48] <Upu> isn't GND network
[19:48] <PB0NER> ok bw = baud rate + 1.2 * shift
[19:48] <Upu> so rename it
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[19:49] <Upu> now
[19:49] <Upu> another small trick
[19:49] <PB0NER> ITU/NTIA formula
[19:49] <PB0NER> so from that point of view you are save
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Is this the bit that lets us solder from the back of the board?
[19:49] <Upu> click circle
[19:49] <Upu> yes
[19:50] <Upu> click circle
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:50] <Upu> set width to 0
[19:50] <Upu> select bstop
[19:50] <Upu> oh you already did it
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:50] <Upu> fine :)
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> :) cool
[19:51] <PB0NER> 300 * 1.2 * 170 = 61200
[19:51] <Upu> fine
[19:51] <Upu> done :)
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> so does everything look ok for fab?
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> after those changes
[19:51] <PB0NER> 50 * 1.2 *170 = 10200
[19:51] <Upu> yep
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> good good, thank you!
[19:52] <PB0NER> 61200 + 10200 = 71400
[19:52] <PB0NER> 71400 < 94000
[19:52] <Upu> would probably put a GND via through here
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, good thinking
[19:52] <PB0NER> so if you use a shift of 170hz on both you are fine with those two frequencies
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Could you just show me the vias at the GPS that needed changing?
[19:53] <PB0NER> ibenezmatt13 got that?
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> do you always have to adjust the circles like that?
[19:53] <mfa298> PB0NER: a bandwidth of 71Khz seems a bit high for 50bd rtty.
[19:53] <Upu> rip up the top one
[19:54] <Upu> shuffle the rest up
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> got it, thanks
[19:54] <PB0NER> mfa298 I never said so
[19:54] <PB0NER> for 50bd with 170 spacing it is 10.2kHz
[19:55] <mfa298> that still seems very high
[19:55] <PB0NER> indeed
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: join.me/149-997-982 This ok?
[19:55] <PB0NER> 'official calculations' for separation of transmission
[19:55] <mfa298> considering the bandwidth most SSB rigs handles is 3KHz that would mean rtty isn't possible
[19:55] <Upu> looks fine
[19:56] <Upu> err
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> ...
[19:56] <Upu> have you some on top of each other there ?
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> aha
[19:56] <Upu> rip up the duplicates
[19:56] <PB0NER> ITU/NTIA formula simplifies to <baud rate> + 1.2 * <shift> where baud
[19:56] <PB0NER> rate is in bits per second and shift is in Hertz. Thus for RTTY with
[19:56] <PB0NER> 170 Hz shift the "necessary bandwidth" in Hz is 204 + baud rate.
[19:56] <bertrik> I think you got a + and * mixed up somewhere
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> how's that Upu ?
[19:57] <Upu> DRU it
[19:57] <PB0NER> I might have fckd up a decimal point... tired after a hard day of work
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> yeah it's fine
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> had internet failure
[19:58] <PB0NER> anyway even with the miscalculation there is enought separation
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> on other pc
[19:58] daveake (~Dave@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] <PB0NER> oh dave might know
[19:58] <PB0NER> Hi dave
[19:58] <Upu> lol
[19:59] <PB0NER> Can you help us out on rtty 50bd and 300bd bandwith calculations?
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, check the join me again. Bit stuck
[19:59] <Upu> cancel
[19:59] <Upu> turn on bStop layer
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> cancelled
[19:59] <Upu> already there
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> aah
[19:59] <mfa298> based on past experience temperature drift is likely to have more impact on what's safe than bandwidth and I'd guess a 10Khz seperation is likely to be safe.
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[20:00] <Upu> with the NTX2's I wouldn't run them closer than 10khz
[20:00] <daveake> PB0NER What did you need?
[20:00] <Upu> however with the TCXO modules you should be ok
[20:00] <PB0NER> See ibanezmatt13... those two frequencies are 94Khz apart
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I think I'm done :)
[20:00] <Upu> I'm doing 3 payloads withing 30khz of each other shortly so you can do them all with 1 FCD
[20:00] <Upu> looks good ibanezmatt13
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> yeah PB0NER, it'll be fine
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Upu
[20:01] <Upu> get it sent
[20:01] <PB0NER> I allways want to be very sure
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Like the desktop wallpaper?
[20:02] <Upu> sorry I disconnected :)
[20:02] <Upu> what is it ?
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> many of my v1 boards tiled :)
[20:02] <PB0NER> daveake Ibanezmatt13 had two frequencies and asked if that was ok, I started calculating, messed up but even with the big numbers it was ok. I commented about frequncy drif
[20:02] <Upu> lol
[20:02] <PB0NER> t
[20:02] <PB0NER> but you answered that too
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, with a tight budget I can only really get either v1 or v2 soldered up. Which would make more sense to solder up? :)
[20:04] <Upu> have you already sent V1 for manufacturer ?
[20:04] <Upu> manufacture
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, they can be coasters for my many cups of tea I leave in my room :)
[20:04] <Upu> lol
[20:04] laekur (~laekur@unaffiliated/laekur) joined #highaltitude.
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> I don't mind, I know v2 is harder to solder
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> But, more advanced
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> better sensor, better reg
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> In fact Upu, there was a problem with the schematic on v1 which Mark from Stratodean highlighted. He had the same issue on his. The bypass pin of the linear regulator was wired to ground when should have been connected to a capacitor. So he had to cut the bypass leg off the chip!
[20:06] <Upu> that will work
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah
[20:07] <Bo_DK_Working> Do we have an eagle expert?
[20:08] Action: ibanezmatt13 points at Upu
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[20:08] <Upu> well wouldn't go as far as expert
[20:08] <Bo_DK_Working> i have tried for an hour to draw a connection between an regulator to an inductor
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[20:08] <Bo_DK_Working> both end are on excatly same level
[20:08] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:09] <Bo_DK_Working> i aim and draw.... but the line are placed excatly next to leg
[20:09] <Bo_DK_Working> and hence no connection
[20:09] <Bo_DK_Working> :-((((
[20:09] <Steve_2E0VET> are there only 2 types of gps antenna active and passive
[20:09] <Bo_DK_Working> tried to experiment with drid size etc
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Bo_DK_Working: Could you send your Eagle files?
[20:10] <Bo_DK_Working> need some save them first
[20:10] <Bo_DK_Working> but yes
[20:10] <Upu> Bo_DK_Working lets have a join.me session
[20:10] <Bo_DK_Working> give me a few
[20:10] <mikestir> hello bo
[20:10] <Upu> so we can see the issue
[20:10] <Willdude123> Hi Upui
[20:10] <Willdude123> Upu
[20:10] <Upu> hi will
[20:10] <Bo_DK_Working> ok...
[20:10] <Willdude123> BBB jams GPS, I think
[20:10] <Bo_DK_Working> assume i need to install first
[20:10] <Upu> no just go to join.me
[20:10] <Upu> http://join.me
[20:10] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[20:11] <Bo_DK_Working> sec
[20:11] <Upu> click start meeting
[20:11] <Upu> when you get the box up click at the top and it should give you a URL
[20:11] <Bo_DK_Working> need to close all the porn sites etc :-D
[20:11] <Upu> yes pls
[20:11] <Upu> get me in trouble with the wife
[20:12] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm... let me pull up some gay porn then :-P
[20:13] <Bo_DK_Working> 956-591-561
[20:13] <Upu> ok show me the issue
[20:14] <Upu> ok
[20:14] <Upu> view -> grid -> default
[20:14] <Upu> that part looks wonky
[20:14] <Upu> may I drive ?
[20:14] <Bo_DK_Working> yep
[20:15] <Bo_DK_Working> its an regulator
[20:15] <Upu> who did the part ?
[20:15] <Bo_DK_Working> standard bit in egagle
[20:15] <Bo_DK_Working> but this problem is the same all round
[20:16] <Bo_DK_Working> even between d1 and gnd
[20:16] <Upu> ok 1 sec
[20:17] <Upu> add the part again now you're on the default spacing
[20:17] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[20:17] <Upu> stick it somewhere away from the other comps for the moment
[20:18] <Upu> ok let me drive again
[20:18] <Bo_DK_Working> seems better
[20:18] <Bo_DK_Working> so far
[20:18] <Bo_DK_Working> :-D
[20:19] <Upu> so basically
[20:19] <Upu> you'd placed the components on a non standard grid
[20:19] <Bo_DK_Working> if trouble remove an add again
[20:19] <Upu> you shold always use 0.05" grid
[20:19] <Bo_DK_Working> yes.... first time i had me in trouble thou
[20:19] <Upu> and any smaller grid use metric but make it multiples of the value in inches
[20:20] <Upu> i.e : 0.0396875
[20:20] <Upu> 0.079375
[20:20] <Upu> 0.15875
[20:20] <Upu> 0.3175
[20:20] <Upu> 0.635
[20:20] <Upu> 1.27
[20:20] <Bo_DK_Working> will remember
[20:20] <Bo_DK_Working> was close to pulling my hair out
[20:20] <Upu> Eagle does that
[20:20] <Upu> it means you're learning
[20:21] <Bo_DK_Working> yeah and building an autonomus tracker will sure learn me new things...
[20:21] <Bo_DK_Working> at least hardware wise
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[20:23] <LeoBodnar> Upu: thanks for fixing Switzerland
[20:23] <Upu> lol
[20:23] <Upu> thanks for noticing it was broken :)
[20:23] <Bo_DK_Working> Upu thanks for help...
[20:23] <Bo_DK_Working> Q:
[20:24] <Upu> welcome Bo_DK_Working
[20:24] <Bo_DK_Working> you run the server?
[20:24] <Upu> which one
[20:24] <Upu> probably yes
[20:24] <Upu> Well
[20:24] <Bo_DK_Working> the one baloons send track data to
[20:24] <Bo_DK_Working> via listner stations
[20:24] <Upu> I provide the hardware and hosting for Tiamat and Kraken
[20:24] <Bo_DK_Working> ok
[20:24] <Upu> I wouldn't say I run it thats the amazing Habitat team
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I've requested a quote from Mitch. Did the board definitely look up to it?
[20:25] <Upu> http://tiamat.habhub.org/
[20:25] <Upu> http://kraken.habhub.org/
[20:25] <Bo_DK_Working> was wondering if it made more sense for the server to calc where to point an yagi
[20:25] <Bo_DK_Working> rather than let an raspberry pi do it
[20:25] <Upu> you can extract that information from the database
[20:25] <Upu> craag does it for habrotate
[20:26] <Upu> https://www.thecraag.com/HABrotate
[20:26] <Bo_DK_Working> hmmm think i have seen it
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[20:26] <Bo_DK_Working> oh... yes
[20:27] <Bo_DK_Working> hmm
[20:28] <mfa298> for the relativly small number of stations with rotators it would seem more sensible to do that client side.
[20:28] <Bo_DK_Working> i was just thinking it it would make sense to tell server i'm a tracker and where i'm
[20:28] <Bo_DK_Working> and it will tell me where to aim
[20:28] <Bo_DK_Working> and how high above horizon
[20:28] <mfa298> (there can be a lot of tracking stations and potentially several payloads to keep track of)
[20:28] <Bo_DK_Working> but just a thought
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[20:30] <mfa298> doing it on the pi could also make more sense as when you have telemety and a local gps you know where you are and where the payload is.
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[20:30] <ibanezmatt13__> Lost connection for a second there
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13__> Upu: I requested a quote from Mitch.
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[20:31] <Upu> good :)
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13__> Did it definitely look ok?
[20:32] <Upu> yeah it will be fine :)
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13__> good stuff, thank you
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13__> It's gonna be great trying to develop the code for this thing :/
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13__> Hang on, how am I gonna be able to develop the code on it, Upu?
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13__> I know it has an ICSP header but will that be enough
[20:34] <Upu> yep thats just what you need
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13__> What about viewing the serial monitor?
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13__> Is that all done through the programmer?
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13__, Upu why did you had to adjust the circle size earlier?
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13__> I don't think we did
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:35] S_Mark (~S_Mark@host86-160-92-246.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> I mean when upu was explaining something on joinme
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13__> It was already there but Upu didn't realise until after the explanation
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13__> :)
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13__> I think that's what happened anyway
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13__> I didn't know it was still there actually
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[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> do you have to do that with every board?
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13__> The hole is for allowing us to solder from the back of the board
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[20:38] <ibanezmatt13__> So that particular chip needs to be connected to ground underneath it so we put the hole in so we could solder from behind
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13__> I think that's the case anyway :)
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13__> ping chrisstubbs
[20:42] <chrisstubbs> hello
[20:42] <S_Mark> hello chrisstubbs
[20:42] <chrisstubbs> Hey mark
[20:42] <chrisstubbs> how goes?
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13__> Hey chrisstubbs, you said that you did something for a school not long ago? I assume secondary school?
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[20:44] <chrisstubbs> Yeah I'm a STEM science ambassador
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:45] mclane (~uli@pD9E85D3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13__> nice
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> Why do you ask?
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[20:45] <chrisstubbs> Saw the tracker photo S_Mark, looks good!
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> All working I presume?
[20:46] <ibanezmatt13__> Don't know really. I just remembered you saying something and then I thought... primary school? But wait, primary school kids learning C. Hmm
[20:46] <S_Mark> not yet!
[20:46] <S_Mark> just soldered
[20:46] <S_Mark> not programmed
[20:46] <S_Mark> had to build a bookshelf
[20:46] <Iain_G4SGX> Upu: Are you about ?
[20:46] <S_Mark> haha
[20:47] <chrisstubbs> Aha
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:48] <ibanezmatt13__> S_Mark: What were the four servos for again? Camera stabilisation or something?
[20:49] <S_Mark> top secret :p
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13__> haha, cool :)
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[20:51] <S_Mark> well two of those are power and external temp
[20:51] <S_Mark> just the same connectors
[20:51] <ibanezmatt13__> ah right
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13__> S_Mark: What are the rough dimensions of your PCB?
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13__> More than 50x50mm?
[20:52] <S_Mark> hmm cant remember now, kinda credit card sized
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13__> 10x5cm?
[20:52] <ibanezmatt13__> Ah
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[20:56] <Steve_2E0VET> is it possible to have a passive gps and somehow boost the signal
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[20:59] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET: you mean like active or passive gps?
[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> a passive one
[21:00] <eroomde> er sorry, i mean active or passive antenna?
[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> yes sorry passive antenna
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[21:00] <eroomde> i don't think so
[21:00] <eroomde> in as much as, boosting means amplification
[21:01] <eroomde> and by definition that requires power
[21:01] <Steve_2E0VET> i want to put an antenna outside and use a ublox, but i dont think i can use an active one with the ublox
[21:01] <eroomde> you can use active ones with ublox modules
[21:02] <eroomde> the receiver itself doesn't know if the antenna is active or not, in principle
[21:02] <Steve_2E0VET> oh ok, i didnt think you could
[21:02] <eroomde> or rather, it doesn't have to know
[21:02] <eroomde> it may provide the active circuitry for you as a courtesy
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> ok wtf
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> eroomde, hear me out here
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> for hyperloop, just stick 10Mpa compressed air in a canister to run the air bearings
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> expand it through a turbine that drives the front fan
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> = stupidly easier way?
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[21:04] <Laurenceb_> 0.2Kg/s = ~ 400Kg air used total
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> seems doable
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13__> Upu: Just a thought, will the vertical NTX2 look naf?
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[21:10] <eroomde> nfi Laurenceb_
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[21:10] <eroomde> Babs__: yo
[21:10] <eroomde> thanks a million for the post!
[21:10] <eroomde> will take a couple of copies in tomorrow
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> hyperloop is either really clever or really stupid
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> if its really clever its because the actual idea is nothing like the one illustrated
[21:11] <Babs__> That got there quickly - normally it takes 3 days just to get out of the post room
[21:12] <Babs__> No worries, you're welcome eroomde
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> Upu: measured TX power is 50mW into 50© load
[21:13] <Babs__> Eroomde - that auto tracker - was it locating in one plane or two?
[21:13] <eroomde> 2
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[21:13] <eroomde> no, 1
[21:14] <Babs__> Hmmm
[21:15] <eroomde> it got 2 3d vectors out
[21:15] <eroomde> that's enough to complete define its attitude
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[21:16] <Babs__> I would have thought it would have been a basic calc to get a bearing given two sets of 3d coordinates
[21:16] <Babs__> But a quick search says there are many different methods that can be used
[21:17] <Babs__> I was just being lazy
[21:18] <Babs__> Actually the majority of the methods just appear to be compensating for two coordinates on a sphere and correcting for a great circle
[21:18] <eroomde> so this was to find out where the rotator is
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[21:19] <eroomde> if you point at one spire, you don't know your rotation angle about the exist of your arm
[21:19] <eroomde> the axis*
[21:19] <eroomde> so if you point at another one, ideally 90 degrees from the first, you can constrain that angle too
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[21:21] <Babs__> My problem is limited to pointing a vector out from the camera lens whereever in space it is and pointing it to a fixed lat and long at sea level
[21:22] <Babs__> by realigning the camera in space
[21:23] <Babs__> To rotate /
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[21:23] <Babs__> Realign the vector
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[21:23] <eroomde> also you can measure your attitude
[21:24] <eroomde> with accelerometers
[21:24] <eroomde> this point-at-2-things malarky was to determine attitude
[21:25] <Babs__> You can measure your attitude relative to a fixed frame in space
[21:25] <Babs__> However if the point is static on earth then it's frame of reference is rotating
[21:25] <eroomde> you'll love gps
[21:26] <Babs__> So i figured the most efficient way was get one set of coordinates, get another and then fix a bearing like in a-level maths
[21:26] <Babs__> Are you covering the relativistic aspect of GPS in your talk?
[21:26] <eroomde> converting between ecef (earth-cenetered earth fixed) and eco (earth centred inertial)
[21:26] <eroomde> well, in passing
[21:26] <eroomde> it's sort of a nice curiosity
[21:27] <eroomde> but the end receiver designer doesn't have to know about it
[21:27] <Babs__> No hand wavey stuff - we will be expecting the full Feynman
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[21:27] <eroomde> it's just einstein's stuff, no feynman needed :)
[21:27] <Babs__> I could do special relativity
[21:27] <Babs__> General I understood, but not the maths part
[21:27] <eroomde> GR and SR have opposing effects in this case
[21:28] <Babs__> Special rel maths was easy and fun
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13__> Upu: I've just exported my project into Sketchup and its loaded up but there aren't any components on it. Is there something I need to do to get the components recognised in Sketchup?
[21:29] <Babs__> So anyway, do you envisage problems with being able to take a bearing between two lats and longs ?
[21:29] <Babs__> The issue is presumably that a normal vector bearing is in a cube
[21:29] <Babs__> Whereas the lat and long are in a more circular frame
[21:30] <Babs__> Although conversion between the two will exist
[21:31] <Babs__> What I actually need is a GPS coordinate for both camera and point on surface I am pointing at in a different set of coordinates ie a square frame
[21:31] <Babs__> I mean non-polar frame
[21:31] <Babs__> Of reference
[21:31] <eroomde> yes
[21:32] <Babs__> Do GPS receivers do that ?
[21:32] <Babs__> Ie can you specify in what frame you want to receive data?
[21:33] <eroomde> not usually
[21:33] <eroomde> LLA by default
[21:33] <Babs__> Would save a whole lot of faffing on the programming side if you could just set the data to output in another frame of reference
[21:33] <eroomde> but they internal will do all the conversion from eco to ecef to lla
[21:33] <eroomde> but check the ublox datasheet
[21:33] <eroomde> it might do ecef
[21:34] <Babs__> Is lla the lat and long we all recognise?
[21:34] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:34] <Babs__> And are Eco and exec non-polar?
[21:34] <eroomde> yep
[21:34] <eroomde> eco sorry
[21:35] <eroomde> sigh
[21:35] <eroomde> eci
[21:35] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ECEF.png
[21:35] <Babs__> Is one anchored to the sun and the other anchored to the earth as it rotates?
[21:36] <eroomde> exactly
[21:36] <Babs__> ECEF it is then. Makes the pointy stuff easy peasy.
[21:37] <Babs__> I've just had a storming idea
[21:37] <Babs__> If you use the Eco, you should be able to keep the sun fixed in view as well for an eclipse
[21:39] <Babs__> Or if one was really smart, flip between ecef for terrestrial (eclipse shadow) And Eco (eclipse ) periodically
[21:40] <eroomde> eci*
[21:40] <eroomde> and yes
[21:41] <eroomde> you can also get the keplerian elements of the moon
[21:41] <eroomde> with that you can probe predict the centre of shadow easily enough
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[21:42] <Babs__> Clever. Vector between the sun and the moon intersecting with the earth
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[21:43] <Babs__> I was just going to use a straight line formula based on predictions (ie it's in Milwaukee at this time , Chicago at this time and points in between at [formula] times
[21:44] <Babs__> Although if you got the camera stable enough, then a timelapse at a fixed point on earth would be the most visually pleasing
[21:44] <Babs__> Flyby
[21:45] <eroomde> yeah enormously so
[21:45] <eroomde> make 2!
[21:46] <Babs__> Math looks basic actually (which it should do given your diagram earlier )
[21:46] <Babs__> http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/51832.html
[21:46] <Babs__> Probably will make 2, 3-d printing the components makes it easy as there isn't any tailoring of parts
[21:47] <Babs__> I could make a second babshab in a couple of hours given the parts
[21:47] <Babs__> Outside of the polystyrene bit, which is more manual
[21:48] <eroomde> yup
[21:48] <arko> Babs__: i've been reading this, has equations and some good explainations http://zogg-jm.ch/Dateien/GPS_Compendium%28GPS-X-02007%29.pdf
[21:48] <eroomde> right, i am heading in. awake early to spend a couple of hours on a project before work
[21:48] <arko> was helpful for me
[21:48] <Babs__> The non polystyrene bit is just like a slot together meccano kit
[21:48] <Babs__> The theory is fine, but I need to ramp up my coding skills
[21:49] <arko> ah
[21:50] <Babs__> Laters eroomde - morning arko
[21:50] <arko> yo yo Babs__
[21:50] <arko> back home?
[21:50] <arko> night eroomde
[21:50] <Babs__> Arko - physically yes, but from a sleep
[21:50] <arko> hah
[21:50] <arko> its 3pm here
[21:50] <Babs__> Cycle point of view, Chicago somewhere
[21:50] <arko> hah
[21:50] <Babs__> It's killing me, I had 3 hours sleep last night
[21:51] <arko> your wife didn't leave you for getting beers with me?
[21:51] <arko> ouch
[21:51] <Babs__> And that's the jetlag effect, not the newly wed effect
[21:51] <arko> haha
[21:51] <arko> :)
[21:51] <Babs__> Nope, she was at the pool and Rosamund Pike and Michelle Rodriguez were there so she was happy celeb spotting
[21:52] <arko> i have no idea how this is going to be fore me
[21:52] <arko> haha
[21:52] <arko> no idea who they are
[21:52] <arko> but good
[21:52] <Babs__> I tried to tell her you had similar levels of fame but she wouldn't have it
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[21:52] <arko> hahaha
[21:52] <Babs__> Bond girl and an actress from Lost
[21:52] <arko> ah
[21:53] <Babs__> Going easy is a nightmare, you have to get up at like 2am in the morning equivalent
[21:53] <Babs__> *easy
[21:53] <Babs__> F. * east
[21:53] <arko> ah man
[21:53] <arko> yeah i leave here at 5pm
[21:53] <arko> land in london at 11am
[21:53] <arko> its like resetting the day
[21:53] <arko> i land 3am my brain time
[21:54] <Babs__> Going west is awesome. You get up at 7am and you've already had an 8'hour lie in
[21:54] <arko> oh good
[21:54] <arko> because i start school the day after
[21:54] <arko> \o/ living on the edge
[21:54] <Babs__> I travelled in california once, with a California resident and a Hong Kong resident
[21:55] <Babs__> We were all 8 hours apart
[21:55] <arko> haha
[21:55] <Babs__> Someone always wanted breakfast while the other wanted lunch and the other wanted dinner
[21:55] <arko> lol
[21:55] <Babs__> How many days do you have over here?
[21:55] <arko> 14
[21:56] <arko> sept 4 -18
[21:56] <Babs__> You basically recover about an hour a day
[21:56] <arko> seriously!?
[21:56] <arko> oh man my talk is going to suck
[21:56] <arko> i'll be out of it
[21:56] <Babs__> Yep. You are giving your talk at 4am
[21:56] <Babs__> On the flip side you will be the last one in the bar at night
[21:57] <arko> I would like to appologize ahead of time
[21:57] <fsphil> lol
[21:57] <arko> YES!!!!
[21:57] <Babs__> Get some ambian
[21:57] <arko> oh tahts awesome
[21:57] <arko> i cant wait to get drunk with people
[21:57] <Babs__> *babs doesn't endorse drug use
[21:57] <fsphil> the hour a day thing is about right
[21:57] <arko> ambian is fine
[21:57] <arko> its not like im doing lines of coke to stay awake
[21:57] <Babs__> Ahhh, i forgot, you're American
[21:57] <arko> is ambian illigal?
[21:58] <Babs__> You'll probably have had 4 shots of Ritalin for breakfast
[21:58] <fsphil> yea you wouldn't want to do coke, pepsi is better
[21:58] <Babs__> Ambian isn't illegal, but it is a bit strong for the UK
[21:58] <zyp> I don't tend to have much problems with jetlag in either direction
[21:58] <fsphil> some people don't
[21:59] <Babs__> In the uk they have weird approaches to pharmaceuticals
[21:59] <arko> yeah i already dont sleep
[21:59] <arko> i sleep at 2am and wake up at 7am almost everyday
[21:59] <Babs__> My mom when she had me said the doctor wouldn't let her have an epidural
[21:59] <arko> all i need to do is sleep on the plane
[21:59] <fsphil> I noticed rather than my sleep hours shifting when i changed timezone, I developed two sleep times
[21:59] <Randomskk> arko: haha totally, the pub after is the best bit
[21:59] <Babs__> But during pregnancy recommended smoking to keep the birthweight down
[21:59] <fsphil> the local-aligned one slowly took over
[21:59] <arko> :D
[21:59] <zyp> when going east, the trick is to not go to bed too early
[21:59] <Randomskk> though with any luck we'll find some drinking holes in cambridge too ;)
[22:00] <arko> woo!
[22:00] <arko> i have one of them bookmarked
[22:00] <Randomskk> which?
[22:00] <arko> the Anchor
[22:00] <Randomskk> oh yes
[22:00] <arko> my friend who lived in cam said to go there
[22:00] <Randomskk> it's nice. though I think the nearby granta is better - for food at least
[22:00] <arko> she's now in texas married to a military man
[22:00] <arko> fun places life takes you
[22:00] <Randomskk> the mill next door recently changed owners and has a better selection of real ale than the anchor
[22:00] <Babs__> Arko - you should have been over earlier in the year
[22:00] <Randomskk> but the anchor is a bit prettier
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[22:00] <zyp> I normally arrive early in the day when I'm going east, and I'm always taking care to stay awake through the day, so I get to sleep through the night
[22:00] <Randomskk> for sure! people go all over
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[22:01] <Randomskk> anyway we can do a small pub crawl ;)
[22:01] <zyp> that way I can wake up at a normal time next morning, and from there it's all easy
[22:01] <arko> for sure
[22:01] <Randomskk> worth seeing the eagle too, very historic
[22:01] <Randomskk> think that was the crick and watson pub
[22:01] <arko> :)
[22:01] <Babs__> The Tabs have a day called Suicide Sunday. It is as mental as it sounds
[22:01] <arko> yes!
[22:01] <zyp> going west is even easier since I arrive in the evening, nice and tired
[22:01] <Randomskk> yes, it is, the eagle's where crick and watson went
[22:01] <Randomskk> goodness
[22:01] <Randomskk> it has its own wikipedia page
[22:01] <Randomskk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eagle_(pub)
[22:02] <arko> oh awesome!
[22:02] <Randomskk> est 1667 lol
[22:02] <fsphil> before I was born
[22:02] <arko> people didnt exist
[22:02] <arko> i know things existed around 1776
[22:02] <Randomskk> older than the USA by a solid hundred years or whatever
[22:02] <arko> when we left you guys
[22:02] <Babs__> So does suicide Sunday http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Week
[22:02] <Randomskk> may week's not the same thing as suicide sunday at all ;)
[22:02] <arko> Babs__: awesome!
[22:03] <Babs__> Arko - there are limited reasons to
[22:03] <arko> my god that looks awesome
[22:03] <arko> i would totally do that
[22:03] <Babs__> Study at Cambridge, but this is one
[22:03] <Randomskk> arko: mayweek? so good
[22:03] <arko> i want to go to cam :(
[22:03] <Babs__> *lights blue touchpaper*
[22:03] <Randomskk> well mayweek and the week preceeding are like the best two weeks of my year
[22:03] <arko> i dont think im smart enough
[22:03] <Randomskk> sadly no longer. stupid postgrad life
[22:03] <arko> haha
[22:04] <Babs__> Arko - seriously, buy a pair of red jeans and they will fall over backwards to let you study
[22:04] <Babs__> *ducks*
[22:04] <Randomskk> haha I feel like you are insinuating something here
[22:04] <arko> really?
[22:04] <arko> thats it?
[22:04] Action: arko opens a tab to amazon
[22:04] <arko> im ready
[22:05] <Babs__> Arko - have you purchased a pair of long trousers at all yet?
[22:05] <arko> not yet
[22:06] <Randomskk> "pants" :P
[22:06] <Babs__> You are going to have to bring a duvet to the conference just to not freeze to death in Britain
[22:06] <Bo_DK_Working> Anybodu that could spare me a moment and look at a solar charger schematic and say if its good enough
[22:06] <Bo_DK_Working> http://www.electroschematics.com/8847/3a-6v12v-solar-charge-control/
[22:07] <arko> i think i'll freeze to death in london
[22:07] <arko> i hear water falls from the sky
[22:07] <arko> thats so weird
[22:08] <arko> i've heard of rain, but never seen it
[22:08] <arko> it happened once here over night, but i missed it
[22:09] <Babs__> You'll enjoy the rain! Bound to see it - laters
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[22:13] <Randomskk> you've never seen rain?
[22:13] <Randomskk> for reals?
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[22:13] <Randomskk> I can't tell with your american sarcasm :|
[22:14] <arko> :)
[22:14] <arko> sarcasm indeed
[22:14] <Randomskk> haha
[22:14] <arko> although
[22:14] <arko> honestly
[22:14] <Randomskk> what dates are you in cambridge? I promise this is the last time I'll ask, putting it on the calendar
[22:14] <arko> i've never seen slow fall
[22:14] <arko> ever
[22:14] <arko> truth
[22:14] <arko> i've seen if afterwards
[22:14] <arko> driving up a mountain
[22:15] <arko> setpt 13-14 ish?
[22:15] <arko> i think
[22:15] <fsphil> slow fall?
[22:15] <fsphil> oh snow
[22:15] <Randomskk> oh so a fair bit post-conference?
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[22:16] <arko> snow*
[22:16] <arko> Randomskk: yeah
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[22:16] <fsphil> snow is brilliant
[22:16] <arko> hi hi
[22:16] <arko> fsphil: it is?
[22:16] <arko> it looks annoying
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk, my friends and I have planned a KiCAD training tomorrow
[22:16] <fsphil> yea
[22:16] <fsphil> when it melts it's not so fun, slush is annoying
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:16] <fsphil> but snow itself is great
[22:16] <arko> hah
[22:16] <arko> ok
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> arko, what's the latest from mars?
[22:17] <arko> do you think i will see it fall?
[22:17] <Randomskk> no
[22:17] <arko> Lunar_Lander: it's still in orbit
[22:17] <Randomskk> not in sept >_>
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:17] <arko> aww man
[22:17] <arko> im never going to see it
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[22:17] <Randomskk> just UK, right? no europe?
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[22:17] <fsphil> not impossible in september
[22:17] <Randomskk> eh, plenty of chances
[22:17] <fsphil> but mostly
[22:17] Nick change: nigelvh -> Guest76238
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I don't remember if I asked it yet
[22:18] Nick change: Bo_DK_Working -> Bo_DK_Sleeping
[22:18] <arko> uk ya
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> but could a curiosity sized rover be landed on the moon with a skycrane?
[22:18] Nick change: Guest76238 -> nigelvh_
[22:18] <arko> sure
[22:19] <fsphil> it would be easier
[22:19] <arko> its much easier too
[22:19] <nigelvh_> Howdy Lunar
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[22:19] <arko> atmosphere is what makes mars such a painful place to land
[22:19] <arko> Lunar_Lander play more kerbal
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> I was wondering about something
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[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> do you know the NASA Monograph on the russian mars probes?
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> by Vladimir Perminov
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> he writes that one problem they faced was that after Mariner 4 they had to make the landing capsule of them much heavier to get enough atmospheric data
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't know why
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> a heavier capsule should fall quicker
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> *the results of Mariner 4
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> well no idea how he meant that
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> I remember that the Viking people were a bit afraid after the Mars 6 results of the russians, as they said that the martian atmosphere has a lot of Argon
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> I suppose that an argon-rich atmosphere needs a different heatshield
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> but it came out that Mars 6 did not work properly
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[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> arko, but do you know the most fun thing?
[22:28] <fsphil> this better be good
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> a lunar rover can be directly controlled :)
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. driven by joystick
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[22:28] <fsphil> the last two where
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:28] <fsphil> and one was driven backwards into a crater wall :)
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD didn't know that
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> Lunokhod 1 or 2?
[22:29] <fsphil> 2
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:30] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2#End_of_mission
[22:30] Nick change: TheBoatCapn -> CaptKyle
[22:30] <arko> didnt know that
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[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder what a lunar curiosity would be
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> *controller pushes joystick forward*
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> *rover checks with HazCams and NavCams*
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> *message: i'm afraid i can't do that dave"
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:34] <arko> hehe
[22:34] <fsphil> imagine robot wars on the moon
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> there is an article by airspacemag linked on wikipedia
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> it says that there was no video link from lunokhod
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> rather you would get a camera image in any time from 7-30 sec
[22:38] <fsphil> yea it was a fax image, or sstv
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> "For Basilevsky, there was an even more frustrating problem: The control room was off-limits to him and other scientists taking part in the mission. Relegated to another room in the Crimea complex, they could listen to the crews workmen-like dialogue only over a loudspeaker. During mission operations, the researchers were expected to be passive consumers of data, not participants in the exploration. Scientists were considere
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> d, in the beginning, as something unnecessary, Sasha Basilevsky explains."
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> imagine that on MER/MSL
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> all the scientists sitting there just getting whatever data would come in
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> how frustrating
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[22:48] <Willdude123> Hi
[22:50] <Willdude123> Confused about the BBB
[22:51] <KiwiDean> Quick question before people bail for the night, what's the preferred method for holding payload batteries - use a snap in plastic holder, or solder them together?
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[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Soldering can lead to failure if you're not good.
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> And don't understand why soldering to batteries is usually done wrongly
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> In general - if you can't put your hand on the joint 5s after making it - you're doing it wrong
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[23:39] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 14 2013