highaltitude.log.20130811

[00:00] <chrisstubbs> the camera can do 640x480 native
[00:00] <chrisstubbs> hmmmmmmmmmmm
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[00:05] <chrisstubbs> set_resolution Set the resolution (in Canon grades), usually 0-8, see PropertyCase for possible values (not available in Lua yet)
[00:05] <chrisstubbs> Arse
[00:05] <chrisstubbs> anything seems to be possible on this though
[00:05] <chrisstubbs> that can still only set it to 640 at a minium anyway
[00:06] <chrisstubbs> Right sleeptime for me, speak to you later fsphil :)
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[00:34] <WB8ELK> My payload today landed about 36 miles north of my ground station. It is putting out about 40 milliwatts on 434 MHz AM modulated RTTY. I can still hear it here from 36 miles away and it is still uploading the landing spot reports to Spacenear. It's in the top of a very tall tree.
[00:34] <WB8ELK> We didn't recover it today due to the nearby thunderstorms and rain approaching.
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[00:36] <fsphil> that must be one big tree
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[06:09] <x-f> good morning
[06:11] <jcoxon> morning x
[06:11] <jcoxon> x-f, *
[06:12] <x-f> i had the impression, that cyclops' launch would be now not an hour later
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[06:15] <x-f> WB8ELK is still transmitting from the same location where it landed yesterday, might be some inaccessible tree :/
[06:16] <jcoxon> yeah i thought that as well
[06:16] <jcoxon> the rx station is quite far away from that point so it must be quite high
[06:17] <jcoxon> any amsat people around?
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[06:22] <Upu> [01:34] <WB8ELK> My payload today landed about 36 miles north of my ground station. It is putting out about 40 milliwatts on 434 MHz AM modulated RTTY. I can still hear it here from 36 miles away and it is still uploading the landing spot reports to Spacenear. It's in the top of a very tall tree.
[06:25] <jcoxon> :-)
[06:26] <Upu> won't be transmitting much longer if that battery voltage is real
[06:26] <Upu> powered by a 9V battery
[06:26] <Upu> same it wasn't an AA
[06:26] <Upu> shame
[06:27] <jcoxon> well i guess they know where it is
[06:27] <Upu> yup
[06:34] <x-f> ALESP is on the map now
[06:34] <jcoxon> excellent
[06:34] <jcoxon> Upu, is this your hardware?
[06:34] <Upu> yeah
[06:35] <Upu> not shouting too much about it
[06:35] <Upu> atm :)
[06:35] <Upu> damn nice prediction
[06:36] <Upu> oh wait it changed
[06:38] <jcoxon> hehe
[06:38] <jcoxon> needs to be n the air really
[06:38] <Upu> yeah
[06:38] <Upu> forgot to ask him what balloon he was using
[06:39] <Upu> cool for southern spain
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[06:40] <jcoxon> Upu, does he have a twitter stream?
[06:42] <jcoxon> just tweeted the portuguse balloon team
[06:43] <Upu> yes 1 sec
[06:44] <Upu> @AlEspacius
[06:45] <Upu> see my retweet
[06:45] <jcoxon> cool
[06:45] <Upu> ok afk dog walk
[06:52] <WB8ELK> UPU and James.....I didn't have the voltage divider installed on this flight so the battery voltage value is not reading anything. I still hear it 12 hours after launch and sadly it is still high in the treetops.
[06:52] <WB8ELK> The MAX-7 worked great by the way
[06:52] <jcoxon> hey WB8ELK
[06:52] <jcoxon> awesome
[06:52] <jcoxon> i wonder if its sitting right at the top of the tree
[06:53] <WB8ELK> using the $4 Sparkfun RF module
[06:53] <jcoxon> :-)
[06:53] <WB8ELK> It probably is right at the top. I have a video of it hitting the trees from about a half mile away
[06:53] <jcoxon> going to recover it?
[06:53] <WB8ELK> I AM modulated it so I didn't have to keep tracking the audio frequency during flight
[06:54] <WB8ELK> Yes...waiting for the storms to move out and the very muddy fields to dry out...I may go out next weekend to recover it.
[06:54] <jcoxon> interesting
[06:54] <jcoxon> working on any special projects currently?
[06:54] <WB8ELK> I used a FunCubeDonglePro+ to decode it on my netbook...worked great
[06:54] <jcoxon> (haven't seen as many wb8elk flights this summer)
[06:55] <WB8ELK> Been a rough Summer....did a flight at GPSL.....a fellow from the UK who was just getting into ballooning was there to learn. I gave him links to UKHAS so he may have contacted you all by now.
[06:56] <jcoxon> oh wow, hoping to come to GPSL one day
[06:56] <jcoxon> difficult to get the time off around that time of year
[06:56] <WB8ELK> Trying to get a WSPR HF transmitter going .... I've been testing it on 20m for the past month. 200 milliwatts....it is heard in Australia every night and Europe every evening
[06:56] <jcoxon> wow
[06:56] <jcoxon> for balloon use?
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[06:56] <WB8ELK> Worth attending GPSL
[06:57] <WB8ELK> Yes....balloon WSPR
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[06:57] <jcoxon> 6 digit locater ain't perfect
[06:57] <WB8ELK> KT5TK and SP9UOB are also working on WSPR designs I believe
[06:57] <WB8ELK> getting the 6-digit locator is better than a 4-digit one. You have to send two WSPR transmissions to get 6-digits
[06:58] <LazyLeopard> 6 digit locator can be quite vague, especially close to the Equator. ;)
[06:58] <WB8ELK> I'll turn mine back on now and see if Europe is picking it up.
[06:58] <WB8ELK> I had it turned off to try to see KT5TK's WSPR flight on 30m today but I didn't see it.
[07:00] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, i'm currently working on balloon->ISS aprs setup
[07:01] <WB8ELK> There I have my 20m WSPR transmitter going at 200 milliwatts
[07:01] <WB8ELK> Great...I've thought about doing that and also tried an OSCAR satellite balloon link as well years ago.
[07:02] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, i think i've got it all built, the arduino can predict the ISS pass and generate the packet
[07:02] <WB8ELK> I fly the new u-Blox MAX 7 today....worked great. Takes a bit longer to get a GPS lock at first but once it does it tracked 9 to 13 satellites the whole flight. very low power drain.
[07:02] <jcoxon> transmitting via baofeng UV-5r
[07:02] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, they are good devices
[07:03] <WB8ELK> Nice. I flew a UV-3R a week or two ago.
[07:03] <WB8ELK> Running SSTV
[07:03] <WB8ELK> unfortunately the Baofeng's low power setting is not that low
[07:04] <jcoxon> indeed
[07:04] <WB8ELK> 1.12 amps current drain for the UV-3R at 4 volts.....and 700 mA for the UV-5R at 8 volts
[07:04] <WB8ELK> But they put out a full watt
[07:05] <jcoxon> certainly useful for APRS
[07:05] <WB8ELK> You have to dismantle the UV-3R and put a 100 pF cap across the PTT line or it will get RF feedback and stay on continuously
[07:05] <WB8ELK> Yes....will be nice for APRS
[07:05] <jcoxon> yeah,
[07:05] <WB8ELK> I have the UV-5R as well.
[07:05] <jcoxon> my UV-5r is dissasembled as I can switch freqs
[07:05] <jcoxon> to allow local and ISS aprs use
[07:05] <WB8ELK> Do you send it commands to change channels?
[07:06] <jcoxon> i'm toggling the A/B button
[07:06] <WB8ELK> nice
[07:06] <jcoxon> haven't found a true interface
[07:06] <jcoxon> i'm quite pleased with the desing
[07:06] <WB8ELK> can't beat the price
[07:06] <jcoxon> design*
[07:06] <jcoxon> it'll be easy to replicate if you are interested
[07:07] <WB8ELK> ON7KO is picking up my WSPR signal at the moment
[07:07] <WB8ELK> looks like very short skip here as well...unusual for this late at night.
[07:09] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, someone got a Cannon camera doing RTTY via CHDK last night :-D
[07:09] <WB8ELK> Hopefully I won't have to put the PTT bypass cap on the UV-5R....I just got it in and haven't hooked up my microcontroller to it yet...I just tested the current drain and power output
[07:10] <x-f> O.o
[07:10] <WB8ELK> are they sending down a photo via RTTY from the Canon?
[07:10] <jcoxon> well i assume thats the next thought
[07:10] <jcoxon> not sure if its feasilbe
[07:10] <jcoxon> but it makes a nice backup beacon i guess
[07:10] <WB8ELK> I think it would take some time
[07:11] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, i haven't had to add teh PTT bypass
[07:11] <WB8ELK> I've been flying the Argent Data SSTVCAM module....nice images in about 71 seconds using Scottie 2 SSTV mode
[07:11] <jcoxon> that said i've optoisolated everything
[07:11] <jcoxon> as the RF resets my arduino
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[07:12] <WB8ELK> Today's flight was a Mini Arduino board (the one that looks like a BASIC Stamp), a Sparkfun 434 MHz module and the MAX-7 uBlox...makes a nice lightweight combo.
[07:13] <jcoxon> yeah, similar to some of out pico setups
[07:13] <WB8ELK> G4CUI is copying my WSPR beacon and a station Germany as well
[07:14] <jcoxon> WB8ELK, did you see this: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/
[07:14] <jcoxon> 71 hour flight time
[07:15] <WB8ELK> Very simple modulation....the SparkFun cheap 434 modules are only On/Off keying....to create an AM modulated tone I just turn it on/off at that rate.....harmonics....but copies quite well and is cheap to build
[07:15] <Upu> morning Bill
[07:16] <WB8ELK> Hi Anthony....James...was that long duration B-6 flight a foil balloon?
[07:17] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:17] <WB8ELK> was it just one foil balloon or several?
[07:17] <jcoxon> single
[07:17] <jcoxon> thats the key
[07:18] <WB8ELK> I just got some in here...the 36" silver variety...going to try to fly a long duration one for my upcoming birthday celebration next week
[07:18] <jcoxon> just need very light weight payloads
[07:18] <jcoxon> that one was < 20g
[07:18] <WB8ELK> that's pretty light
[07:19] <WB8ELK> KT5TK flew 3 foil balloons a few days ago....they stayed up until about noon then came down....he found them...took one balloon off and flew the remaining two for another day's flight
[07:20] <Upu> just one balloon with a insanely light payload
[07:20] <Upu> tracker details here : http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-2/
[07:20] <jcoxon> yeah, single balloon is a lot easier as you otherwise need ot balance the lift in each balloon
[07:20] <WB8ELK> I'll see if I can fly just one... I have a very lightweight foil solar panel...maybe I can power it with one of those instead of a battery
[07:21] <Upu> I think thats on the cards next
[07:21] <Upu> he tried a solar+primary
[07:21] <Upu> sort of worked
[07:21] <Upu> but cell came loose I think
[07:21] <Upu> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/
[07:21] <Upu> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Pages/9.html
[07:22] <WB8ELK> He's using the same foil solar cell that I'm using
[07:23] <WB8ELK> I got a batch of them at the Dayton Hamvention
[07:23] <Hiena> WB8ELK: Which type?
[07:23] <WB8ELK> Let me try to find their website
[07:23] <Upu> Powerfilm
[07:23] <WB8ELK> Yep...that's it...Powerfilm solar
[07:24] <Upu> http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?mp337&show=product&productID=271535&productCategoryIDs=6573
[07:24] <Hiena> How is the price?
[07:24] <Upu> I got them at about £6 each from E-Bay
[07:24] <WB8ELK> http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/oem-comparison-chart/
[07:24] <Upu> I don't think they have a UK disty
[07:25] <WB8ELK> The Power Film folks had a booth at the Dayton Hamvention....they were pretty reasonably priced
[07:25] <cm13g09> Has anyone got any launches today from UK?
[07:26] <cm13g09> I haven't seen anything, so I'm assuming not....
[07:26] <Upu> launch in Spain
[07:26] <WB8ELK> by the way....that balloon payload that caused such a stir in Virginia as published by The Register is quite obviously an Ozonesonde
[07:26] <WB8ELK> lauched by Wallops
[07:26] <WB8ELK> launched
[07:26] <Upu> yeah
[07:26] <WB8ELK> too bad they had to tear the ozonesonde apart with the police robot
[07:27] <Upu> lol
[07:27] <WB8ELK> it does make a buzzing sound....the air pump inside is fairly noisy
[07:27] <Upu> you have guns over there why didn't they just shoot it ? :)
[07:27] <WB8ELK> One of the balloon groups in Texas flew a payload with a TV camera in it...it landed on a ranch
[07:28] <WB8ELK> by the time they got there, the rancher was shooting at it with his rifle from about 20 feet away...one bullet went right through the camera
[07:28] <Upu> lol
[07:28] <WB8ELK> the rancher said he thought it was a bomb....smart move to try to blow up a bomb with a rifle from 20 feet away !!!
[07:29] <Upu> lol
[07:29] <Upu> just looking at ALESP
[07:29] <WB8ELK> I'll try some experiments with mhy Powerfilm solar panels and see how light I can get a payload for next week.
[07:30] <Upu> looks like the Spanish sun is up
[07:30] <Upu> You want to be using the 1.8v boards for Solar really
[07:31] <WB8ELK> Anthony...my balloon is still reporting on Spacenear after being in the tree for 12 hours....10 satellites on the MAX-7 still
[07:31] <Upu> From Spain : We proceed to inflate the balloon, let a little late: P
[07:31] <Upu> still transmitting ?
[07:31] <Upu> oh yes
[07:31] <Upu> is that battery voltage accurate ?
[07:32] <WB8ELK> No....I didn't have the right resistor values so it is not reporting anything at all....It was a spur of the moment payload built last night.
[07:32] <Upu> ah ok
[07:32] <WB8ELK> It'll probably last about 20 to 24 hours on that 9-volt lithium...only drawing 35 mA during transmit and 15 mA idle
[07:33] <WB8ELK> Receiving it via the FunCubeDongle and HDSDR program...worked great but dl-FLdigi crashed again on me during the flight...version HAB.50
[07:34] <Upu> odd that
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[07:34] <Upu> https://twitter.com/AlEspacius/media/grid
[07:34] <WB8ELK> Didn't have a problem running the old HAB.29 version
[07:34] <WB8ELK> Is there an update now beyond .50?
[07:34] <Upu> sadly doesn't work any more
[07:34] <WB8ELK> I tried the beta .68 and it doesn't even run on my Windows machine
[07:35] <WB8ELK> I still run the .29 version as backup
[07:35] <Upu> does the upstream fldigi work ?
[07:35] <WB8ELK> I got a lot of errors uploading via my cellular modem....fldigi would say it was rewinding data?
[07:36] <Upu> Latest fldigi is here http://www.w1hkj.com/download.html
[07:36] <Upu> might be worth trying that
[07:36] <WB8ELK> I don't use the upload on 29 since it doesn't work anymore...just use it to collect data as backup in case .50 crashes
[07:36] <Upu> if it crashes we know the issue isn't with the dl- parts
[07:36] <WB8ELK> I will try the latest regular version and that would be a good test...good idea
[07:37] <Upu> afk 5
[07:38] <jcoxon> bbl
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[07:38] <WB8ELK> I used this module for the 434 AM transmitter: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10534
[07:39] <Darkside> cripes
[07:39] <Darkside> dont those things drift really badly?
[07:39] <WB8ELK> gotta run here as well...time for bed....been a long day chasing the balloon amidst thunderstorms
[07:39] <WB8ELK> That's why I AM modulated it
[07:39] <Darkside> even still
[07:39] <WB8ELK> don't have to worry about the drift so much
[07:40] <WB8ELK> it drifted from 433.985 MHz to 434.000 during the flight
[07:40] <Darkside> hh
[07:40] <WB8ELK> only had to occasionally adjust the radio tuning but the audio tones on dl-fldigi were always the same
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[07:40] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[07:40] <WB8ELK> so yes...if you were using CW or USB RTTY...it drifts too much
[07:41] <WB8ELK> but AM worked great....and they put out about 50 milliwatts at 9 volts....at 5 volts they'd be around 10 mW so usable in the UK
[07:42] <WB8ELK> They are on/off devices....so I just turn them on/off at 1000 time a second to get a 1000 hz tone...
[07:42] <Darkside> and a 2000hz done :P
[07:42] <Darkside> tone*
[07:42] <Darkside> and 3000Hz
[07:42] <WB8ELK> yep
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> May I ask why the price difference between the NEO6 and MAX6 is so huge?
[07:43] <Darkside> Upu:
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> Is it to do with the quality of it?
[07:44] <WB8ELK> Darkside....my WSPR transmitter I'm testing for a balloon flight is being picked up by Australia almost every night ... running 200 millwatts on 20 meters
[07:44] <Darkside> you wont gt much position resolution out of that
[07:45] <Upu> depends which NEO you're comparing ibanezmatt13
[07:45] <WB8ELK> good enough to DF it
[07:45] <Upu> there are a huge number of end of life NEO6M's hitting the market
[07:45] <WB8ELK> but yes only a 2.5 by 5.0 mile grid....at least in this part of the world it is
[07:45] <Upu> they don't have a TCXO in them, only run at 3.3v and power saving options are limited
[07:46] <WB8ELK> the huge advantage is the ability to copy my telemetry in Australia with just 200 milliwatts
[07:46] <ibanezmatt13> So they just spit out nmea which can't be disabled?
[07:46] <Darkside> WB8ELK: would be intresting to try and see where you can pack extra bits of position info in
[07:46] <Darkside> perhaps you can get a few bits out of the power field
[07:46] <WB8ELK> Been working on that...very limited...but you can adjust the power field
[07:46] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 code wise they are identical to the MAX modules
[07:46] <Upu> they are just larger physically as well
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[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, how about NTX2 vs RFM22F?
[07:47] <Upu> RFM is end of life
[07:47] <Upu> as is the NTX2 actually
[07:47] <WB8ELK> I'll have it running for a few days if you want to listen for it on 20 meters
[07:47] <Darkside> WB8ELK: whnen i get an antenna up maybe
[07:47] <WB8ELK> It has been on for over a month now
[07:47] <Darkside> i'd prefer a mode whre you can actually send arbitrary data
[07:48] <Upu> RFM is frequency agile, can do 10-100mW but can be unstable at low temps
[07:48] <Darkside> im not a big fan of WSPR for that
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> So basically, the NTX2 and UBLOXMAX6 are the best components for a tracker
[07:48] <Upu> NTX2 is rock solid but only comes in 2 frequencies
[07:48] <Upu> and does drift a little under low temps but nothing excessive
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> that's ok though :)
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> In my box it should be radioactively hot
[07:49] <WB8ELK> UPU....I had my RFM22B module down to -45 deg C during a recent flight....it wobbled but not enough that I couldn't decode RTTY....but occasionally it would generate weird things and then go back to RTTY again
[07:49] <WB8ELK> my bubble wrap protection tore open at launch so it was ambient temperature throughout the flight
[07:49] <Upu> they are a bit hit and miss, its the long lights that kill them
[07:49] <WB8ELK> I could copy it from 350 miles away though at 20 milliwatts setting
[07:50] <Upu> out of interest did yours have the SMD crystal or the HC49 ?
[07:50] <Upu> From spain : https://twitter.com/AlEspacius/status/366465227606351872/photo/1
[07:51] <WB8ELK> I'll have to look at the photo of it...It is in Indiana at the moment...I think it had the SMD XTAL though
[07:51] <Upu> ok
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: What's the difference between the AMB3 and HC49 crystals?
[07:52] <Upu> size
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> that all?
[07:52] <Upu> yep
[07:52] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[07:52] <WB8ELK> well...gotta run for now....great talking with you all
[07:52] <Upu> ABM3's are more expensive
[07:52] <Darkside> 73s WB8ELK
[07:52] <Upu> have fun Bill let us know if you recover that paylod
[07:52] <Upu> payload
[07:52] <WB8ELK> will do...73s all
[07:54] <WB8ELK> I need a tree-climbing robot....we were watching it parachute down and we all cringed when it just missed a nice big field of soybeans to land in the woods <sigh>
[07:54] <WB8ELK> bye for now
[07:54] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: On the habduino .sch you have an inductor on the GPS antenna ? That confused me as Iliterally have it connected to GND and RF_IN :/
[07:55] <Upu> habduino uses an active antenna
[07:55] <Upu> that and the 10R are there to provide power for it
[07:55] <ibanezmatt13> what's the difference between actives and sarantels performance wise?
[07:58] <Upu> actives get a lock much quicker and work better indoors etc
[07:58] <eroomde> apples to oranges
[07:58] <Upu> but outside not much difference
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[07:58] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[07:58] <Upu> I use the active as the have a SAW filter in case someone sticks a 808 camera in the same box
[07:59] <ibanezmatt13> what's an 808 camera?
[07:59] <eroomde> activa antennas are really just for when you have a length of coax between antenna and gps chip
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[07:59] <Upu> use a passive
[07:59] <Upu> cheap chinese GPS jammers
[07:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[08:00] <Upu> ALSEP up
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[08:01] <x-f> they did what we did on our first flight - launched exactly an hour later than announced :)
[08:01] <eroomde> there's a thing called thermal noise
[08:01] <eroomde> the amount of thermal noise a component has is proportional to its temperature and its resistance
[08:02] <eroomde> the gps signals arrive at the antenna already much less powerful than the thermal noise
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[08:02] <eroomde> a length of coaxial cable has a resistance, and it has a temperature, so it generates its own thermal noise
[08:02] <eroomde> but also because it has a resistance, it weakens the signal coming from the antenna
[08:03] <eroomde> so the signal-to-noise ratio goes right down if you put some coax in the way
[08:03] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: On the habduino .sch on the MAX6, you don't have a value for C2 which is the decoupling capacitor for the top right three VCC pins. What would the value of that be?
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[08:04] <eroomde> now, one way around this would be to try and amplify the signal coming out of the antenna before it goes into the coax, so the coax's own thermal noise contribution has a proportionally lower influence on the signal-to-noise ratio
[08:04] <eroomde> so an active antenna is simply a normal antenna which also has a transistor next to it to amplify its signal, before it goes down the coax
[08:05] <eroomde> there is nothing at all different about the antenna itself, 'active antenna' is a slightly unhelpful name in that regard, it's just a normal antenna with some local amplification
[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, didn't know that eroomde. Thanks for the info
[08:05] <Upu-> attend Ed's GPS talk at the conference :)
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[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> I will :)
[08:05] <eroomde> you obviously have to power this transistor somehow, which is why you inject DC down the coax with an ative antenna
[08:05] <eroomde> i won't cover this stuff in the talk as it's more just normal electronics techniques rather than gps
[08:05] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know what a transistor is :/ I'll have to google it
[08:06] <eroomde> learn. they're the building bocks of modern electronics
[08:06] <eroomde> see if someone will get you a copy of The Art of Electronics
[08:06] <eroomde> it's the bible
[08:06] <ibanezmatt13> It's the three pin thing with a colector, base and emmiter isn't it?
[08:06] <eroomde> yes, that's the one
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[08:07] <eroomde> you can amplify the current going into the base
[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I read up on it once. Give it a small current and it amplifies it across to other pins or something. I could never understand what its use was
[08:07] <Upu-> The JoshingTalk Guide To Making Your Space Balloon.pdf ?
[08:07] <eroomde> amplifying!
[08:07] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[08:07] <eroomde> it's how all microcontrollers work, how all radios work, how everything works. once you understand transistor, you can make anything
[08:07] <eroomde> anything
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> I just don't understand why its so important (I'm new to electronics relatively)
[08:08] <ibanezmatt13> And a FET, I don't knw what the heck that is either :/
[08:08] <mfa298> unless you're making a Time Machine when you also need a flux capacitor
[08:08] <eroomde> a different kind of transistor
[08:09] <eroomde> field effect transistor
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> I need to read up on these
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> MOSFET?
[08:09] <eroomde> don't worry about it all now, but yes, learning them is most useful
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> yes i will do
[08:09] <eroomde> i'd get a copy of TAoE, and have a play with stuff
[08:09] <eroomde> metal oxide semiconductor field effect transistor
[08:09] <eroomde> just another kind of transistor
[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: Is there a way to calculate what decoupling capacitor you need on a component? I'm sat here wondering what decoupling cap to put on the uBlox max 6
[08:10] <eroomde> yes
[08:11] <eroomde> x = 100n
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[08:11] <eroomde> that's the forumla
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[08:11] <daveake> lol
[08:12] <cm13g09> well put eroomde
[08:13] <Upu> haha
[08:14] <eroomde> to be so basically you want a lot of charge (a larger cap) to be able to supply enough energy to change the state of all the transistors on the clock edge
[08:14] <eroomde> that takes a certain amount of energy
[08:14] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/The%20Art%20of%20Electronics%20-%20Horowitz%20-%202nd%20Edition%20-%20Solution%20Manual.pdf
[08:14] <eroomde> however, large caps tend to have a higher parasitic inductance
[08:14] <eroomde> inductance is a property which resists the change of current
[08:15] <eroomde> and for a decoupling cap that's super bad, as it's all about being able to supply a lot of current for a very short time (on the clock edge)
[08:16] <eroomde> so the compromise is lower value caps, but more of them
[08:16] <eroomde> that's why chips often have lots and lots of pairs on power pins
[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> So I need two 0.1uF caps on the Ublox instead of one?
[08:16] <eroomde> each with smaller decoupling cap that's very close (again to minimise inductance)
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[08:16] <x-f> hey, cyclops!
[08:16] <cm13g09> eroomde: you learn something new every day!
[08:16] <cyclops> up!
[08:17] <cyclops> its up1
[08:17] <cyclops> 6KM!
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> woo
[08:17] <cm13g09> I didn't realise that was what it was all about....
[08:17] <x-f> how did the launch go?
[08:17] <mfa298> cyclops: well done
[08:17] <cyclops> well quite messy and stressing
[08:17] <cyclops> but hopefully we were like 10 and all helping
[08:17] <cyclops> All went well
[08:17] <Upu> hey cyclops :)
[08:17] <cyclops> Hey Upu !
[08:17] <Upu> thats one ascent rate :)
[08:18] <Upu> what balloon is it ?
[08:18] <cyclops> ALESP
[08:18] <Upu> no sorry what size of latex
[08:18] <cyclops> 800 Howoyee
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[08:18] <Upu> estimated burst ~26km ?
[08:18] <cyclops> 30
[08:18] <cyclops> 600g(incl parachute)
[08:18] <cyclops> payload
[08:18] <Upu> you'll be lucky with that ascent rate :)
[08:18] <cyclops> <well im extremely happy now
[08:18] <Upu> are you following it ?
[08:19] <cyclops> BTW the server saves all the data right?
[08:19] <Upu> yes
[08:19] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, just one 0.1u (same as 100n) is fine for the ublox
[08:19] <eroomde> you just want one on each power pin
[08:19] <cyclops> we are stopped, having breakfast
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> thanks eroomde
[08:19] <Upu> lol quick siesta :)
[08:19] <eroomde> and you want it super close
[08:19] <eroomde> again to minimise this horrible inductance property
[08:19] <Upu> amended live predictor
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[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> even for the atmega328 eroomde ? Just one 0.1uF?
[08:20] <cyclops> Hopefully I bought an inverter
[08:20] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, have you done differentiation and integration yet?
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> partially
[08:20] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, wherever there is a power and gnd pin
[08:20] <cyclops> so im chargin the laptop now :P
[08:20] <Upu> I would keep in range as you don't have any other people tracking it
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[08:20] <eroomde> partially is a clever pun when talking about calculus
[08:20] <Upu> live predictor has updated now
[08:20] <eroomde> though you may not realise :)
[08:20] <Upu> good luck!
[08:20] <eroomde> ok, so inductance is usually given the symbol L
[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[08:20] <cm13g09> eroomde: I was sitting here sniggering about that pun.... wondering if ibanezmatt13 would realise....
[08:21] <eroomde> and the equation that relates inductance to voltage and current is V = L * (di/dt)
[08:21] <cyclops> thanks a lot
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> nope :)
[08:21] <eroomde> where t is time
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> didn't know that equation
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> what is d?
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> nevemind
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> difference
[08:21] <eroomde> the derivative for current
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> that's it
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> It's been a while
[08:21] <eroomde> so in english, the voltage is equal to the inductance multiplied by the rate of change of current
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[08:22] <eroomde> so if you keep the voltage the same (eg your supply voltage) and you increase the inductance (eg with poor pcb layout) then the rate at which current can change must reduce
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> Ah I see
[08:23] <eroomde> and that's bad, because microchips actually want a very high current for a very short time
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> Right
[08:23] <x-f> cyclops, put your chase car on the map, if you can, and good luck with the flight and recovery :)
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: So decoupling the atmega328 requires one or two 0.1uF caps?
[08:24] <eroomde> while your ublox might be 20mA continuous, it's actually several amps for a new nanoseconds, then basically nothing, because all the current is used to switch the transistors, which only happens on the clock edges
[08:24] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, i don't remember the 328 layout
[08:24] <eroomde> how many vcc/GND pairs are there?
[08:24] <eroomde> they are usually next to each other, just so you can get a decoupling capacitor in very close
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/image/data/tutorial/arduino-hardcore/atmega328-tqfp-arduino-pinout.jpg
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde: I'm desiging a PCB so the location of the GND pins don't matter really :)
[08:26] <eroomde> ok, so just one then for pins 4 and 5
[08:26] <eroomde> there is an avr app note about hardware layout considerations
[08:26] <eroomde> worth reading
[08:26] <eroomde> https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atmel.com%2Fimages%2Fatmel-2521-avr-hardware-design-considerations_application-note_avr042.pdf&ei=vUoHUvT4FeLF0QXgj4DoDA&usg=AFQjCNECl54GwahzWRDmxk0o9VZH5y7Gjg&sig2=7gAPSsrNsRgb5St33gUkYw&bvm=bv.50500085,d.d2k
[08:27] <eroomde> sigh, google
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> So on my previous PCB I had two 100nF caps. One across all power pins, the other for AREF
[08:27] <eroomde> yep
[08:27] <eroomde> that's fine
[08:27] <eroomde> are you using the ADCs?
[08:27] <mfa298> I think the chip datasheets have a bit of information about decoupling and powering them as well
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> no
[08:28] <eroomde> ok, so you don't need to do much with aref
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> do I need the cap on there? Even though I'mnot using it?
[08:29] <eroomde> can't hurt
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> cool. By the way,I was testing my payload recently and I noticed after a while the freq was doing something very wierd as if it was turning on and off. I checked inside and the 6 AAs were so hot it was unbelieveable
[08:31] <cyclops> how con i save the log from Dl-fldigi?
[08:31] <mfa298> if you're designing a board it could be worth having the pads in place so you can populate it if you need to. But if you're not using the adc you might not need to populate those parts.
[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I may do that mfa298. But I'm not sure I'd use them for anything
[08:31] <cyclops> so if I lose the signal can get the data
[08:33] <mfa298> remember you may well end up getting several boards done so having a few options for future stuff could be useful (e.g. break out some of the pins you're not using so you can connect wires to them in future.
[08:35] <eroomde> mmm, i'm always a fan of doing the most you can for the money and time
[08:35] <eroomde> rather than precisely meeting a spec
[08:35] <eroomde> at least in research, it almost always pays off
[08:36] <ibanezmatt13> will do
[08:36] <eroomde> especially when designing instrumentation for rocket engines!
[08:37] <eroomde> 'nah we don't need to log that, nah... nope don't need that.................. hmmm, this is an interesting phenomena, did we log the temp drop across the metering valve?'
[08:37] <eroomde> 'no.... you said not to.'
[08:37] <eroomde> '... but i actually did log it anyway so here you go'
[08:38] <mfa298> it's always good when you can turn around and say: I didn't think you wanted that data, but here it is anyway.
[08:38] <eroomde> the world has come round to my way of thinking thankfully. no more cave trolls saying 'just want chamber pressure duuuur'
[08:38] <eroomde> mfa298, do real
[08:38] <eroomde> fo*
[08:40] <cm13g09> mfa298: My patching excercise continues....
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[08:42] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
[08:42] <eroomde> pong
[08:43] <eroomde> did you get my text of yesterjour?
[08:43] <jcoxon> still up for pub today?
[08:43] <jcoxon> no
[08:43] <eroomde> my friend paula is going to uzbekistan for 6 months tomorrow, and wanted to meet up this eve before she went
[08:44] <eroomde> thus i texted you apologetically to ask if we might postpone
[08:44] <eroomde> potentially to a weeknight
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[08:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:44] <jcoxon> postponement is no problem
[08:44] <jcoxon> i'm on nights this week
[08:44] <eroomde> ah righty
[08:44] <eroomde> i thought that was helen
[08:44] <eroomde> hmm
[08:44] <jcoxon> yeah she is on nights this weekend
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> Is there anytime you would need to have different size capacitors on a PCB? So could I have every capacitor in 0603 size or are there some instances where I should have 1206?
[08:45] <eroomde> v complicated
[08:45] <x-f> good morning, booci
[08:45] <jcoxon> eroomde, it gets worse haha
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[08:49] <booci> hello all
[08:49] <jcoxon> hi booci
[08:51] <mclane> hi
[08:52] <mclane> question to those of you using a raspi as tracker: how do you develop your SW?
[08:52] <mclane> develop on model b and then transfer to a via sd?
[08:56] <KiwiDean1> mclane, writing my own in Java (it's what I've developed with in for my day job for the past 10 years), build and test on laptop or desktop and deploy onto Pi to run. There's quite good 3rd party libraries for Pi GPIO. Will deploy onto model A via ssh and wifi.
[09:00] <x-f> i wonder why there are no other trackers in Spain for ALESP flight..
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> Steve from Cambridge has just been on CBBC for sending a helium balloon up
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[09:06] <x-f> no new positions for the last 5 minutes :/
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[09:11] <mfa298> mclane: I think it's a case of find what works best for you. I'm currently developing on an original model b (I don't have a model a yet)
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[09:13] <mclane> What language are you using? - C, Python, Java, C++, ...??
[09:14] <mfa298> I'm doing c++ with threads. And it's as much a case of brushing up my C++ as making a tracker payload.
[09:14] <mfa298> I'm also thinking of growing a beard so I can try clever stuff with bit banging rtty (or other modes) on the gpio
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[09:15] <mclane> I have already a beard ;-)
[09:15] <fsphil> you need a beard? is this where I've been going wrong?
[09:15] <mfa298> beard required as I might stray into kernel land (again something I've wanted to play with for a while but not had a reason for)
[09:15] <fsphil> aah kernel
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[09:16] <mclane> ok, then my beard will become much bigger
[09:16] <fsphil> dump that shaver now
[09:16] <mfa298> I'm thinking a simple rtty driver in the kernel might not be too hard - I could be wrong though.
[09:17] <x-f> ooh, an update finally!
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[09:18] <cyclops> hi!
[09:18] <cyclops> lost 3g :P
[09:18] <cyclops> now up
[09:18] <cyclops> and lost signal for 10mins
[09:18] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, whats the call sign
[09:19] <cyclops> ALESP
[09:19] <x-f> cyclops, are you following it now?
[09:19] <cyclops> yes
[09:19] <cyclops> going to the predicted landing
[09:20] <x-f> good
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[09:20] <cyclops> quite frightened when checsums were wrong
[09:20] <x-f> i'd stay closer to the burst point
[09:20] <cyclops> 27km up
[09:21] <cyclops> 8ºC inside
[09:21] <Steve_2E0VET> still climbing
[09:22] <x-f> bit sad that there are no other tracking stations in Spain
[09:22] <fsphil> when listening to my flights I get worried every time the signal does anything at all :)
[09:22] <jcoxon> x-f, they'll be more next time
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[09:23] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, what equipment are you using
[09:23] <cyclops> Steve_2E0VET: funcube++
[09:23] <x-f> jcoxon, yeah, but there are three other "towers" already, only one being out of range
[09:23] <cyclops> with a simple antenna
[09:24] <cyclops> x-f some are receiving but cant upload
[09:24] <x-f> oh, why?
[09:24] <jcoxon> cyclops, we can fix that if people pop on here
[09:24] <Steve_2E0VET> jcoxon, how do we go about being able to upload
[09:25] <jcoxon> in what way?
[09:26] <cyclops> dunno its what they say by twitter
[09:26] <x-f> cyclops, getting red lines now?
[09:26] <cyclops> green checksum
[09:26] <bertrik> I thought running dl-fldigi in hab mode and having an operator callsign set would be enough
[09:26] <Steve_2E0VET> jcoxon, being able to monitor other ballons and upload data (i presume a bit like APRS)
[09:27] <cyclops> 30KM
[09:27] <x-f> yay, 30 km!
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[09:27] <jcoxon> Steve_2E0VET, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[09:28] <osario> hola como el globo
[09:28] <osario> como va
[09:29] <cyclops> its getting higher than predicted :P
[09:29] <cyclops> osario a 30km de altura
[09:29] <x-f> that's why you stay close to the burst point and wait
[09:29] <Steve_2E0VET> is the light red track the predicted one
[09:29] <fsphil> yea
[09:30] <fsphil> well blue in this case
[09:30] <x-f> orange in my case :)
[09:31] <cyclops> exploded
[09:31] <osario> ok
[09:31] <cyclops> Its falling
[09:33] <cyclops> -43m/s
[09:34] <cyclops> this is awsome
[09:34] <x-f> having fun there? :)
[09:34] <cyclops> yes
[09:34] <cyclops> all the family here
[09:35] <cyclops> parents, oncles, cousings and even grandma
[09:35] <x-f> that's great
[09:35] <Upu> awesome
[09:35] <cyclops> yeah
[09:35] <fsphil> haha
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[09:35] <fsphil> my family just think it's geeky and silly
[09:35] <Upu> cyclops quick question is the signal stable ?
[09:35] <Upu> have you have to retune ?
[09:35] <cyclops> Upu: signal stable
[09:36] <cyclops> no retune
[09:36] <Upu> awesome
[09:36] <cyclops> Upu seems to work well :P
[09:37] <Upu> got get it back I want to see the pics :)
[09:37] <mclane> cyclops do you fly a habduino??
[09:37] <cyclops> minimun internal temp 8ªC
[09:37] <cyclops> i do
[09:37] <cyclops> the first one
[09:37] <Upu> yeah hand warmers "lol"
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[09:38] <cyclops> lol falling the temperature is -21
[09:38] <Upu> yeah the coldest bit is about 20km I think
[09:38] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, so does my wife
[09:38] <Upu> gets warmer higher up
[09:39] <Upu> anyone in the car got an ipad or something ? if so go to habub.org/mt and turn the chase car on
[09:40] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, android?
[09:40] <Upu> works on either tbh
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[09:42] <Upu> osario are you receiving ALESP ?
[09:42] <Steve_2E0VET> upu all i get is porn site
[09:42] <Upu> oops
[09:42] <Upu> http://habhub.org/mt
[09:42] <cyclops> done
[09:43] <Upu> drive quicker :)
[09:43] <Steve_2E0VET> upu put www. before it lol
[09:43] <Upu> and spell it correctly :)
[09:43] <Upu> chase car on the map
[09:43] <cyclops> lol
[09:43] <cyclops> 3 cars cant go faster
[09:43] <Steve_2E0VET> upu i thought it didnt look correct, is there an android app
[09:44] <Upu> 96km/h :)
[09:44] <Upu> probably but the mobile tracker chase car thing works
[09:44] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, you should have got a coach they are mental drivers in spain
[09:44] <Upu> still receiving it ?
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[09:46] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, guess not, bet its frantic their now!!
[09:47] <cyclops> Upu signal getting weaker
[09:47] <cyclops> nope
[09:47] <Upu> need to get closer
[09:47] <Upu> oh there you go
[09:47] <cyclops> ok nw
[09:47] <Upu> its turning now
[09:47] <Steve_2E0VET> its back
[09:47] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops why are you reversing?
[09:49] <x-f> looks like it will land gently
[09:49] <cyclops> em road here is weird
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[09:49] <Upu> ping LeoBodnar
[09:50] <LeoBodnar> here Upu
[09:50] <Upu> quick PM
[09:51] <cyclops> lol -31ª
[09:51] <cyclops> cold
[09:51] <jcoxon> 96.2308753967 km/h
[09:51] <jcoxon> so accurate
[09:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> But look at the altitude you can see the sand on the road!
[09:54] <cyclops> bad -1ºC inside
[09:54] <Steve_2E0VET> why do i only have one guide line on fldigi, i cannot put the line over the signal
[09:54] <Upu> ah you're good for a while cyclops :)
[09:54] <cyclops> I hpe so Upu
[09:54] <Upu> its falling into warmer air you issue is its going to over heat in the Spanish sun
[09:54] <bertrik> is that some kind of tree plantation on the predicted landing spot?
[09:54] <cyclops> Glad i spent 200E on a receiver
[09:54] <cyclops> Onlyone traking
[09:54] <cyclops> *tracking
[09:55] <Upu> what did you get ? FCD ?
[09:55] <x-f> Steve_2E0VET, is it in the RTTY mode?
[09:56] <cyclops> pro++
[09:56] <Steve_2E0VET> x-f yep that was the problem
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[10:00] <x-f> cyclops, still receiving it?
[10:00] <cyclops> strog signal
[10:00] <cyclops> cant get
[10:00] <cyclops> a checksum right
[10:00] <x-f> what altitude is it?
[10:01] <Upu> paste a line here cyclops
[10:01] <Upu> oh you got one
[10:02] <cyclops> yes
[10:02] <cyclops> gladly
[10:02] <cyclops> Oh god
[10:02] <cyclops> hate TomToms
[10:02] <cyclops> cant get to the right road
[10:02] <Upu> A-3125
[10:03] <cyclops> yep
[10:03] <cyclops> in it
[10:04] <cyclops> god iphon not updating car
[10:04] <Upu> sometimes it takes a while
[10:06] <cyclops> well on the right road now
[10:06] <cyclops> habduino working properly
[10:06] <Upu> thats the important thing :)
[10:08] <cyclops> wrong decoding now
[10:08] <Upu> should switch dynamic model as it drops below 1000 meters so the error code (which is actually status) will switch to 8
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[10:09] <Upu> well you're not going to land on a tree thats for sure
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[10:20] <Willdude123> Morning
[10:20] <daveake> Position updated
[10:21] <daveake> 1625m ... could do with lower but that should get him there
[10:22] <jcoxon> any amsat people around?
[10:23] <Upu> 577
[10:23] <Upu> he must be near
[10:23] <Upu> look switched to dynamic model 3 woo
[10:23] <Upu> always like it when it does that
[10:23] <Upu> means my code is working
[10:24] <x-f> :)
[10:24] <daveake> :)
[10:26] <mikestir> seems to be landing on some giant veroboard
[10:27] <Upu> lol
[10:31] <g0hww> jcoxon, i'm a member of amsat, how may i be of assistance?
[10:33] <jcoxon> g0hww, was going to ask about ISS and APRS (appreciate that isn't just AMSAT stuff)
[10:34] <g0hww> that's one aspect of it all that i'm vaguely familiar with, go ahead
[10:34] <jcoxon> i've got a setup that should be being digipeated by the ISS
[10:34] <jcoxon> but i suspect i might have an issue with the packet format
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[10:35] <g0hww> does anything else interpret it as valid ax.25?
[10:35] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:35] <jcoxon> on aprs.fi you can see the raw packets
[10:35] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6JCX-11
[10:35] <jcoxon> before i switched to the correct freq
[10:36] <g0hww> hmm
[10:37] <jcoxon> so i've done some reading
[10:37] <jcoxon> the wide2-1 isn't needed so i'll remove that
[10:37] <jcoxon> its more the APRS, ARISS part
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[10:37] <jcoxon> looking at other traffic people use CQ,ARISS
[10:37] <jcoxon> though a few people use APRS,ARISS
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[10:38] <g0hww> jcoxon, here's a perl script where we assemble a beacon string from the individual fields: https://github.com/jpronans/digisats-beacon/blob/master/digisats-beacon.pl
[10:39] <daveake> altrack has the landing position now
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Looks like ALESP is down the ground is 300m at that point
[10:40] <Upu> lol check external temp
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Phew!
[10:41] <g0hww> jcoxon, line 49, all after the "-d" assembles the beacon string
[10:42] <daveake> Yes don't normally get internal < external
[10:44] <jcoxon> g0hww, yeah i see the APRS ARISS part
[10:44] <g0hww> that works for sure
[10:44] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:45] <eroomde> jim williams is amazing
[10:45] <eroomde> a sort of analogue electronics oracle
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[10:46] <jcoxon> g0hww, obviously it doesn't beacon it as "APRS ARISS"
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[10:50] <g0hww> jcoxon, give me a few minutes and i'll run it
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[10:51] <jcoxon> thanks g0hww
[10:51] <jcoxon> i'm so close with this setup
[10:52] <g0hww> i goofed and formatted the wrong raid partition on my linux box in the shack, so much stuff is left to configure
[10:53] <Steve_2E0VET> where has cyclops gone
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[10:55] <jcoxon> g0hww, i've basically done the same thing as that script but on arduino
[11:00] <db_g6gzh> the linux beacon command accepts a space separated digipeater list in the destination
[11:01] <jcoxon> okay
[11:01] <jcoxon> so that would be come:
[11:01] <jcoxon> APRS,ARISS
[11:02] <db_g6gzh> as a decoded path
[11:04] <db_g6gzh> it's a while since I looked at the AX.25 spec so I can't remember exactly how you build the path at byte level
[11:05] <jcoxon> db_g6gzh, the setup works locally on 144.800
[11:05] <jcoxon> db_g6gzh, https://github.com/jamescoxon/Eurus/blob/master/2mTracker/Combo_new/Combo_new.ino
[11:05] Action: db_g6gzh looks
[11:07] <db_g6gzh> your ax25_frame functions does it
[11:09] <jcoxon> the difficulty with ARISS is that i'm not sure exactly which element doesn't work
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[11:10] <jcoxon> is it that my format is incorrect, or radio not powerful enough or need better antenna radiation pattern
[11:10] <jcoxon> i think my format is correct
[11:10] <jcoxon> the radio is 4W (which is borderline for txing the ISS)
[11:11] <db_g6gzh> if it digipeats terrestrially then your frame format must be OK
[11:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:13] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: J Williams and Bob Pease
[11:14] <LeoBodnar> Kneel
[11:14] <g0hww> 4w is a struggle, lucky to get a packet through
[11:14] <LeoBodnar> The best I can do to approach them is keeping my desk and office in the same state that they had theirs
[11:15] <jcoxon> g0hww, shorter packet the better?
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> g0hww: can I have another APRS question?
[11:15] <g0hww> yeah shorter FTW
[11:15] <g0hww> go on
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[11:16] <LeoBodnar> Why nobody is using WIDE2-2 path embedded into a destination SSID? No trace but 7 bytes shorter packet
[11:16] <db_g6gzh> jcoxon: the destination call shouldn't matter, just the digi
[11:17] <jcoxon> db_g6gzh, so it is worth just making it CQ as again that shortens the packet
[11:18] <g0hww> jcoxon, its not so much the link budget but the saturated uplink
[11:18] <g0hww> your signal is weak compared to everyone else transmitting at the same time
[11:19] <jcoxon> yeah i feared that
[11:19] <jcoxon> so this evening passes i suspect are the worst for that
[11:20] <db_g6gzh> I can't see any harm in using CQ but it's only a slight saving
[11:20] <eroomde> LeoBodnar, same on desk
[11:22] <g0hww> LeoBodnar, good question
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> The saddest thing was that Bob Pease died in a car crash driving back from J Williams funerals :(
[11:22] <eroomde> yes, kinda cosmic
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[11:23] <jcoxon> db_g6gzh g0hww thanks for all the help
[11:24] <g0hww> np
[11:24] <eroomde> i like bob pease's answer to the question 'what is your favourite programming language?'
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> g0hww: I think APR Bob Bruninga advocated using this way fro simple devices
[11:24] <eroomde> 'solder.'
[11:25] <g0hww> LeoBodnar, as long as all the digipeaters support it, it would be ok
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[11:25] <db_g6gzh> jcoxon: the destination is usually used to indicate software version of the sender, it seems normal to start with AP but whether any receiver filters on that I'm not sure
[11:26] <db_g6gzh> http://www.aprs.org/tocalls.txt
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[11:29] <LeoBodnar> Haha "APRS Generic, (obsolete. Digis should use APNxxx instead)"
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[11:31] <Hes> I don't think any digi supports WIDE2-2 in a destination callsign in reality.
[11:31] <Hes> At least I haven't seen it used anywhere (and I've looked at a *lot* of packets).
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[11:31] <Hes> The destination callsign is used for (1) encoding position data in Mic-E packets, and (2) software/device identifier in all other packets.
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> It's in the standard, does that mean it is not a "standard" standard?
[11:32] <Hes> Yeah, the standard is so huge that really few devices actually do all of it.
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[11:32] <Hes> Also, it's outdated, and there's a large stack of additional specs for additional features which are actually used.
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> What a mess
[11:33] <Hes> And there are some actual bugs in the PDF, and it hasn't been updated since.
[11:33] <Hes> It is a huge mess.
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[11:34] <fsphil> APRS in a nutshell
[11:34] <chrisstubbs> Morning all
[11:34] <chrisstubbs> oh its the afternoon
[11:34] <fsphil> morn
[11:34] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon all
[11:34] <Hes> With ARISS digipeating the destination callsign doesn't matter, ARISS is the correct digipeater alias, which gets replaced by RS0ISS-3 or something when it's getting digipeated by the ISS
[11:34] <fsphil> noon'
[11:35] <LeoBodnar> Have a bowl of aftflakes
[11:36] <LeoBodnar> This did not come out right did it? XD
[11:36] <Hes> I've been implementing my APRS thing since 2006 and I'm still messing features like DF parsing/display.
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[11:38] <LeoBodnar> AX.25 needs replacing with higher speed xml based thing
[11:38] <Hes> XML? Joking?
[11:38] <g0hww> xml has a too much overhead
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> That's what happening in MCU world
[11:39] <Hes> XML has too much 90's Enterprise Class stuff in it.
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> Just throw more power on or buy a bigger chip if your Java or sketch does not fir
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> *fit
[11:40] <LeoBodnar> C++ on an 8-bit micro. :-\
[11:40] <LeoBodnar> You don't code APRS in assembly I guess, do you?
[11:41] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: C++ is only used to make some parts of the code easier to write
[11:41] <Darkside> you wouldn't do anything dynamic with it
[11:41] <Darkside> all objects would be singleton instances
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[11:41] <Darkside> allocatd at compile-time
[11:41] <db_g6gzh> just realised whois Hes
[11:42] <LeoBodnar> Efficeincy-wise AX.25 frame is already wasteful
[11:42] <db_g6gzh> it's ancient tech
[11:43] <db_g6gzh> and APRS just 'evolved' on top of it
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> It's neither too efficient nor generous
[11:44] <db_g6gzh> but it's there and people use it ...
[11:44] <LeoBodnar> I know, I have been using HDLC to talk to IBM mainframes from AS/400
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[11:46] <db_g6gzh> I remember from years back how difficult it was to convince people to try 9600 baud packet
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> It needs radio modification
[11:47] <db_g6gzh> yes
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> But there are more efficient modulation schemes these days even for FM radios audio path
[11:47] <db_g6gzh> but really even 1200 should bypass the pre/de-emphasis
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> You only need to convince all the TXers and all the RXers
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> XD
[11:48] <db_g6gzh> quite 8-)
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> I use 3dB/oct pre-emphasis
[11:49] <db_g6gzh> you more or less have to for compatibility
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> So it has a chance to go through either clean RX or standard 6dB/oct audio path
[11:49] <db_g6gzh> but its really just a 3dB loss of SNR on the low tone
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> ALternatively TX twice with and without pre-emphasis
[11:51] <db_g6gzh> well, if you're generating it in software you could
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> I do
[11:51] <db_g6gzh> I had no doubt
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Maybe even repeat the same packet in the same TX session, thanks for the idea XD
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> Just separate them with a few flags
[11:53] <db_g6gzh> that should work
[11:53] <db_g6gzh> saves the preamble time
[11:53] <LeoBodnar> Do digis drop duplicated packets on the spot?
[11:54] <db_g6gzh> I'm not sure
[11:54] <db_g6gzh> it would be smart for APRS ones to do so
[11:56] <db_g6gzh> I was going to implement a smart fill-in digi at home which only relayed if it didn't see any other digi retransmit
[11:56] <g0hww> db_g6gzh, i use aprx for that
[11:57] <LeoBodnar> Oh, clever! I remember reading somewhere that they won't rebroadcast packets they have seen in the last 20-odd (seconds or minutes?)
[11:57] <db_g6gzh> oh, re-inventing the wheel again am i ? 8-)
[11:57] <g0hww> you can't have too many wheels though
[11:57] <LeoBodnar> XD
[11:58] <db_g6gzh> well it's part of learning stuff
[11:59] <db_g6gzh> I was also experimenting with a tracker which only sends position updates when the error to a dead-reckoned position exceeds a certain distance
[12:01] <db_g6gzh> I'm not yet sure if it's any better in reducing channel usage than the existing 'smart beaconing' algorithm though
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> Does it pre-empts what client tries to do with DR and corrects when it thinks it's too far off?
[12:01] <LeoBodnar> WHat's 'smart beaconing'?
[12:02] <db_g6gzh> that's what I was trying to achieve, so if you travel at constant speed in a stright line there is no need to update
[12:02] <db_g6gzh> http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=SmartBeaconing
[12:02] <g0hww> i guess you actually have to transmit your speed then, which might not be too popular
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[12:03] <g0hww> and you'd need good coverage in case packets got lost
[12:04] <db_g6gzh> xastir seems to dead-reckon, maybe it calculates a speed based on previous update
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[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> afternoon, how did ALESP do?
[12:07] <db_g6gzh> seems to have been successful, though I've not seen a confirmation of receovery
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> did he have a Yagi?
[12:08] <db_g6gzh> he did seem to upload a decode of it on the ground
[12:08] <db_g6gzh> so presumably was close
[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> let's hope he's found it or he finds it
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[12:16] <charolastra> how do those weather balloons determine the direction of the wind? do they just infer it from the gps positions?
[12:17] <zyp> of course
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> Wind = velocity of balloon
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> This is really, really close to true
[12:19] <charolastra> you're sure? cause the wind strengt/direction data is much more defined than what could be infered from that rather linear path it takes
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> Balloon is a mechanical wind speed integrator
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: You really think the balloon goes at a speed significantly different forom the wind for more than momentS?
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: It doesn't have an engine on it - it's not a blimp.
[12:22] <charolastra> it still has inertia
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: Sure.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: Now compute how many seconds its constant of inertia is.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> Given that you have perhaps a kilo, and several square meters.
[12:23] <zyp> charolastra, for just determining wind speed they even use balloons with only a retroreflector for a payload, and track the position with a radar
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: And if you care enough - you can simply invert that time-constant, and get a 'true' speed.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: This is rarely relevant
[12:24] <zyp> retroreflectors are cheaper than electronic payloads when all you want to know is the wind profile
[12:26] <charolastra> radar is obvious; it's relative to the ground stations and radar is made for exactly that task
[12:26] <zyp> sure, but it's still the balloon position that you track
[12:27] <charolastra> but ballons, they are also not ideal "sails" (i.e. not catching the wind perfectly)
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: You're being moderately idiotic.
[12:27] <charolastra> thanks ... fuck you too
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> charolastra: If the time-constant of the balloon is 5s, then after 60s, it is moving at essentially the same speed as the wind.
[12:28] <zyp> charolastra, how are they not? they are round so they catch the wind equally independent of the relative direction it comes from
[12:28] <LeoBodnar> Raspberry Pi of the past: http://vimeo.com/70589461
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> And I suspect 1 second is more likely to be accurate in many cases.
[12:28] <charolastra> that's the point, 60 seconds is a large delay compared to what the ballon reports back; there can be 180° changes during a few seconds
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Sure - so you simply run an inverted time constant model if you care enough
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[12:29] <SpeedEvil> It's not remotely difficult.
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[12:29] Nick change: danielsaul -> Guest838
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> charolastra: balloon makes its own wind
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Observation affects reality
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: That's a whoopie cushion.
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> Even on quantum level
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> so define "wind"
[12:34] <Upu> ASLEP recovered
[12:34] <Upu> "After an hour of searching, socks and spikes through a field of sunflowers, we recovered Al-Espacius. Thanks for following"
[12:34] <Upu> "The photos are stunning, after lunch the climb."
[12:34] <charolastra> sure .. the question was just how much the reportet values fit reality and what might be the reasons for discrepancy
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Inertia, non-symmetrical drag during ascent
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Or descent
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> The exact answers are "very" and "almost anything"
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> The yardovsky effect
[12:37] <Upu> "Less landing else is recorded, there are pictures of everything."
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> good stuff
[12:40] <db_g6gzh> yeah, was that the first Habduino flight as well as cyclops' first flight ?
[12:40] <Upu> yes
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> If I want to use an analog input on the atmega328 to read battery voltage, do I just connect VIN on my regulator to an analog input on my atmega328? No resistive divider or anything needed?
[12:40] <Upu> depends if the battery is more than the VCC of the AVR you need a divider
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> 1.5v ish?
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> should be fine
[12:43] <db_g6gzh> I'd be tempted to use a series resistor even if you don't need to divide
[12:44] <ibanezmatt13> For temperatue sensors on the atmega328, to use a digital one such as the ds18b20 is it just a case of connecting straight into a digital input?
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:45] <LeoBodnar> Good point. Since I am interested in balloon flight predictions, I don't need a true molecular level "wind map" I need a "balloon velocities" map and that is exactly what I get from NOAA
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Well - a GPIO
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Not an input
[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> ok and I guess the one wire code is not too difficult on the atmega?
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: Not really - there are various libraries to do it for you
[12:45] <LeoBodnar> Same goes for airplanes, etc
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> cool, SpeedEvil, if I want to connect two DS18B20s, shall I connect each one to a different GPIO?
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> Or the same one?
[12:46] <Darkside> same one
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> right, how would I be able to read each one at different times?
[12:47] <db_g6gzh> they have a unique address
[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that makes sense then. Thanks :)
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[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> What external temperature sensors are normally used for HAB?
[12:59] <Darkside> DS18B20s
[12:59] <Darkside> which, yes, cap out at -55 dgrees
[12:59] <Darkside> and are likely non-linear below -40 degrees C
[12:59] <Darkside> but its what we have
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> thank you
[13:01] <chrisstubbs> Upu, did you get my e-mail last night?
[13:01] <Upu> to work ?
[13:01] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[13:02] <Upu> those long ones are end launch
[13:02] <Upu> not right angle
[13:02] <chrisstubbs> darn
[13:02] <chrisstubbs> No worries, will have a look on the web
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to think of an analog sensor I could use...
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> Something other than temperature
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> In fact
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna change my ds18b20 for a BMP085
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> how would you even solder the bmp085 chip to a PCB? The pads are underneath it
[13:12] <ibanezmatt13> wait, I think it has a lid
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[13:13] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, with a fine tip soldering iron, flux, and fine solder
[13:13] <chrisstubbs> or buy a breakout board
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'm trying to work out how to get it onto a PCB i'm designing
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> whether I should use some headers for a a breakout or do it myself
[13:15] <chrisstubbs> if you are using that TPS61201 regulator it will be just as difficult to solder as that
[13:15] <charolastra> headers + breakout = extra weight
[13:15] <chrisstubbs> the bmp looks even easier actually
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll just use the actual chip then. I'm just reading the datasheet to see how to connect it :/
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/BMP085_DataSheet_Rev.1.0_01July2008.pdf page 9.
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> I think that's a circuit I could replicate
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> However, I was looking at the master clear line, XCLR
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> What would I connect that too?
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> to*
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[13:18] <chrisstubbs> http://learn.adafruit.com/bmp085/wiring-the-bmp085
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, thanks
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[13:18] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[13:19] <chrisstubbs> think mr lander has use those BMP chips before
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> what about them?
[13:19] Action: chrisstubbs points to ibanezmatt13
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_LanderU: I'm looking at putting a BMP085 on a PCB
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> Though I've never used one
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[13:19] <Lunar_LanderU> I used the sparkfun breakouts so far
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> I'll see how they wire it on the breakout then I'll try to do it on the PCB
[13:20] <Willdude123> Resoldered gnd connection
[13:20] <Lunar_LanderU> good idea
[13:20] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, Did you figure out how to use eagle?
[13:21] <LeoBodnar> Upu: what are these trailing hex numbers after the last (status ?) field https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Data/m0upu-11.htm
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> yep, had a lot of help but I get it now :)
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I'm already working on NORB_v2 :)
[13:21] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, How's the camera going?
[13:22] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, been playing laurel and hardy trying to get my dads jukebox into/out of a van this morning, no progress as of yet
[13:22] <Lunar_LanderU> what is a good package size for SMD caps and resistors?
[13:22] <mattbrejza> 0603
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> 0805
[13:23] <chrisstubbs> Got RTTY working in CHDK froma canon a530 last night at 300 baud btw for those who werent around
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> If you had to ask then 0805 otherwise 0603
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> XD
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[13:23] <mattbrejza> probably best really
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> well I hope I am not over-confident now that soldering the HIH-5031 had worked
[13:23] <mattbrejza> depends on what tools you have to solder them
[13:23] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> I got a weller soldering iron with one of these fine tips, also one with a chisel tip
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> I hope I got that word right
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> both unfortunately aren't temperature controllable
[13:24] <Lunar_LanderU> WPCT-S I think
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: the XCLR pin can just be hooked up to a digital GPIO on the atmega328 I think. It says in the datasheet that it's active low so I could keep it high on a digital pin then flick it low when I want to clear the registers inside
[13:25] <Lunar_LanderU> also I got 1 mm 60/40 Pb/Sn solder, which I learned probably is too thick
[13:25] <chrisstubbs> Sounds about right, that breakout said you dont need to connect it unless you need it, not sure if its pulled up/down onboard
[13:25] <x-f> chrisstubbs, are you going to send the pics over SSDV now? :)
[13:25] <chrisstubbs> x-f thats the plan
[13:25] <x-f> amazing
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> in fact chrisstubbs, all it does is reset the chip basically and I shouldn't need to do that at all. If it's active low, I guess if I just supply 3v3 to it, it should be fine
[13:27] <Lunar_LanderU> ibanezmatt13: what does the sparkfun SCH say?
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> I'm reading this: http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/BMP085_DataSheet_Rev.1.0_01July2008.pdf page 18
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> it says that the XCLR(reset) is active low. So I can just wire it to 3v3 can't I?
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> Everything else is pretty straight forward
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> I've not checked the Sparkfun sch
[13:29] <Willdude123> Hmm Got the logic analyser connected at the BBB end, seems to be rxing but BBB isn't printing, will check my code.
[13:29] <LeoBodnar> Hes: are you around?
[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: what do you think about the tools I listed?
[13:30] <mattbrejza> you can certainly do 0603 with that
[13:30] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, thanks
[13:30] <mattbrejza> but give it a go
[13:31] <mattbrejza> 0805 is probably a better start, i tend to use a tweezer soldering iron for smaller components
[13:31] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[13:31] <Lunar_LanderU> I just saw one on wikipedia
[13:32] <Willdude123> Well this is weird
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[13:33] <Willdude123> I can see the BBB is definetly rxing
[13:33] <Willdude123> However, it doesn't show.
[13:33] <Willdude123> Nothing is printed.
[13:33] <Willdude123> But the logic analyser shows it is rxing nmea.
[13:33] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: btw to explain, I think I want to try this circuit now http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2236
[13:34] <mattbrejza> its more complicated however
[13:34] <LeoBodnar> db_g6gzh: "The digipeater keeps a copy or a checksum of the packet and will not digipeat that packet again within (typically) 28 seconds."
[13:34] <mattbrejza> mich more to go wrong
[13:34] <Lunar_LanderU> you mean the maxim one?
[13:35] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:36] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[13:37] <Lunar_LanderU> I wonder why mine is not working at the moment
[13:38] <mattbrejza> what have you made?
[13:38] <mattbrejza> and how etc
[13:38] <Willdude123> So there must be a loose connection at the BBB's RX
[13:38] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[13:39] <Willdude123> The only thing is, there isn't.
[13:39] <Lunar_LanderU> I made this circuit http://s.gullipics.com/image/m/9/4/ji1rd83-kuurec-juix/PINSchematicV1.png
[13:40] <Lunar_LanderU> and had a PCB made for it
[13:40] <mattbrejza> all of it in one go?
[13:40] <mattbrejza> have you tested with a scope at SIG?
[13:40] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
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[13:40] <Lunar_LanderU> I did not solder the stepup but connected a 12V battery at C3
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[13:40] <Lunar_LanderU> then I connected PDOUT to a scope
[13:41] <mattbrejza> yea start with SIG
[13:41] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure ive made a similar version of the bottom left a nd it seemed to work
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[13:43] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[13:43] <Willdude123> I might try with a different UART.
[13:45] <Willdude123> Loopback doesn't worl
[13:45] <Willdude123> work
[13:45] <Willdude123> Oh
[13:45] <Willdude123> Must mean the BBB header isn't making contact.]
[13:46] <Willdude123> Oh wait it does.
[13:49] <Willdude123> ooh nice rxing nmea
[13:50] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: sounds sensible, where was that quote from?
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> http://www.aprs.org/doc/APRS101.PDF page 11 WIDEn-N entry
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> I don't know if this would apply to fill-in stations though
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> I guess if software they run is the same then yes
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[13:53] <Willdude123> Well this is weird
[13:53] <Willdude123> I nudged the connection a bi now I'm getting all sorts of sentence.
[13:53] <Willdude123> Maybe it rebooted
[13:54] <low-rider> .
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[13:56] <LeoBodnar> ping Hes
[14:00] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: that rule stops a digipeater re-sending a packet it has already digipeated, my thought was to also not digipeat if I saw a better located digipeater had already done so
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> Yes, but what if TXer is between you and digipeater? You could be just on the edge of digipeater area but can reach further out in the opposite direction
[14:03] <craag> Usually you can hear the digipeater from far further than a mobile station, so that very rarely happens.
[14:03] <craag> db_g6gzh: I've heard that referred to as a 'viscous digipeater'
[14:04] <db_g6gzh> fair point but in my situation I'm in the middle of nowhere surrounded by digipeaters that can hear each other
[14:05] <Willdude123> Upu, guess what?
[14:05] <craag> That point was directed at Leo
[14:05] <Willdude123> No lock
[14:05] <db_g6gzh> craag: yes, I gather I was re-inventing the wheel, as aprx apparently does it
[14:05] <Willdude123> Could take it outside and plug into my netbook
[14:06] <craag> db_g6gzh: I've used aprx as a viscous fill-in + rx i-gate for your kind of situation.
[14:07] <db_g6gzh> I'll have a look at it, at the moment I'm Rx only and running xastir
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[14:09] <craag> aprx is a headless program, more suited than xastir to being embedded on pi or openwrt router.
[14:10] <craag> I ran it on a pi in my car as a mobile beacon, visous fill-in digipeater and rx-igate through a 3G dongle for a while.
[14:10] <ibanezmatt13> guys I've made a schematic for a future PCB and I just need a heads up on whether I've done it right or not. https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tm7s5qfi7fas8t/NORB_v2.png Ublox max 6, NTX2, bmp085, step up boost regulator, etc... Particularly the step up regulator and the bmp085. Thanks.
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[14:11] <craag> Blew the mind of some people with the idea that a digipeater had to sit in a 19" rack..
[14:12] <db_g6gzh> nice
[14:12] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: just had SIG on the scope as you suggested
[14:12] <Lunar_LanderU> no signal at all
[14:12] <Lunar_LanderU> just the 12V battery getting hot momentarily
[14:12] <mattbrejza> erm
[14:13] <mattbrejza> yea something might be slightly wrong then
[14:13] <db_g6gzh> I have a linux PC in the car anyway and I've been running xastir mobile too!
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> I noticed something
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> can you still see the schematic?
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> R4 ends in a dead end
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> for some reason
[14:13] <mattbrejza> r4 connects to vcc and sig?
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> in the schematic
[14:14] <mattbrejza> yea?
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> on the board, one end of R4 is a solder pad without any connection
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> but I didn't route it that way
[14:14] <mattbrejza> lets see your eagle board then
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> in my routing, that was properly connected
[14:14] <mattbrejza> oh the board and eagle dont match?
[14:15] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/l/0/1/ji1rd83-kuut2u-p4e1/BoardV1Finished.png
[14:15] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[14:15] <craag> Yeah it'd be nice to have an APRS map display as well. HAB projects have rather replaced APRS for me since then though!
[14:15] <ibanezmatt13> by the way, in Eagle, is the board view background supposed to be black? Mine is white on this one for some reason
[14:15] <mattbrejza> do have an pic of the board?
[14:16] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[14:16] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: you can change
[14:16] <mattbrejza> i prefer black
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, I just wanted to make sure nothing had gone wrong. Thanks
[14:16] <db_g6gzh> craag: yes, always too many projects ...
[14:17] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/9/t/5yv5v1-kuqh2y-mge6/IMG0047.jpeg
[14:17] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/4/o/j/5yv5v1-kuqh3i-2nps/IMG0048.jpeg
[14:18] <craag> db_g6gzh: My aprx configs and gps scripts are here https://github.com/thecraag/mobile-aprs
[14:18] <mattbrejza> r4 is connected on the board at both ends
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> the top end is
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> the other end is a dead end solder pad
[14:20] <mattbrejza> not according to http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/9/t/5yv5v1-kuqh2y-mge6/IMG0047.jpeg
[14:20] <mattbrejza> if youve soldered it up the track is hidden under the resistor
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I want to resize my outline in Eagle to 50x50mm. The grid is set to mm but it won't let me change it. Every time I try to change the length of a line it turns into a triangle :/
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> the board outline
[14:24] <mattbrejza> od
[14:24] <mattbrejza> d
[14:24] <mattbrejza> could just delete the old nd redraw
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> yes but I'm not sure how to set the new polygon to be the black line(the board outline that's usually there)
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> hm
[14:25] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: set the layer to dimension
[14:25] <mattbrejza> and line to width 0
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, will do thanks
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> craag: are you planning to do more balloon shots in flight
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> ?
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks for spotting that mattbrejza
[14:26] <craag> LeoBodnar: If there's a launch near me with a clear-ish sky when I'm free, I don't see why not :)
[14:27] <Lunar_LanderU> and as I said that battery got hot momentarily, so that was maybe bad alignment of my wires or so
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> I have Meade telescope with autotracking control that I planned to use for tracking balloons. It can be either used as autotracking platform or as a primary lens for DSLR
[14:27] <mattbrejza> well you have a short somewhere Lunar_LanderU
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> Are you intersted to work together on this?
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[14:28] <Lunar_LanderU> yea that I know
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> I don't have time to do everything at once
[14:28] <Lunar_LanderU> but then again, moving the battery wires a bit probably solved it
[14:28] <Lunar_LanderU> as it didn't get hot anymore
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> It can be controlled via serial port
[14:28] <mattbrejza> do you have a pic of the pcb as it is?
[14:28] <db_g6gzh> craag: thanks, python is on my list of languages to learn. I actually contributed the '-s' switch to 'beacon' many years ago 8-)
[14:29] <LeoBodnar> It's 1250mm focal length if you use it as primary
[14:29] <craag> LeoBodnar: I'd be happy to put together some software for the serial-port control.
[14:30] <LeoBodnar> http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/astronomy/
[14:30] <craag> As for cameras/lenses I'm not really a camera person, just thought I'd give it a try, borrowed the camera+lens off my brother.
[14:31] <craag> Oh very cool!
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> It has a camera port that will take almost any DSLR that can shoot w/o lens
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> Failing that I have Fuji DSLR that uses Nikon mount and mounting ring
[14:32] <LeoBodnar> Failing that you camera can be just piggy backed on top of it
[14:32] <LeoBodnar> Blimey that was 10 years ago
[14:32] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/4/o/j/5yv5v1-kuqh3i-2nps/IMG0048.jpeg
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> no sorry
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/d/o/p/ji1rd83-kuuuvu-oywd/IMG0052.jpeg
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/p/o/r/ji1rd83-kuuuvg-tkh3/IMG0051.jpeg
[14:33] <craag> I'm sure I could get hold of a camera that would fit.
[14:33] <LeoBodnar> so all bits are there it just needs tying it all together with scripts and onto dl-fldigi
[14:34] <craag> Well I have the habrotate software that autotracks balloons for rotators
[14:34] <craag> Just need to put a serial output on it for your autotracker!
[14:34] <LeoBodnar> I have the camera that works but it's better to get a modern one. I don't mind buying some modern Nikon DSLR that would work with manual (=no) lense
[14:35] <LeoBodnar> I'll get the links for the scope control
[14:35] <mattbrejza> yea its not gonna take much to short LeoBodnar
[14:35] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: even
[14:36] <LeoBodnar> It's reasonably trivial I just don't have time to do it
[14:36] <craag> Ok, my brother has a few resonably modern cameras and is buying a full-frame dslr soon, he'd be interested in putting some time into it I'm sure.
[14:37] <craag> I probably won't be able to do anything until about mid-september
[14:38] <craag> Did you have a flight in mind to track with it?
[14:38] <Lunar_LanderU> yes?
[14:38] <LeoBodnar> Nothing yet, just wanted to prove the idea
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> The controller: http://www.meade.com/catalog/autostar/497_autostar.html
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> DIY cable: http://www.weasner.com/etx/autostar/as_cable505.html
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> Control protocol http://www.meade.com/support/TelescopeProtocol_2010-10.pdf
[14:40] <craag> Very snazzy
[14:42] <craag> Designed for continuous movement tracking it looks like?
[14:43] <LeoBodnar> Yes, with adjustable rate
[14:43] <craag> Yeah... could get some very smooth tracking.
[14:43] <LeoBodnar> I think it even does backlash compensation
[14:44] <LeoBodnar> when you slew
[14:44] <craag> Enough zoom for a batc.tv feed of balloon burst?
[14:44] <LeoBodnar> Well have a think and I will dust it off
[14:45] <craag> Ok, I'm qute busy til after the UKHAS conf.
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> I am sure, what was your lens FD?
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[14:47] <craag> erm FD? (lack of camera-knowledge showing..)
[14:48] <craag> 150-500mm F5-6.3
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[14:49] <Lunar_LanderU> be back later probably
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[14:50] <cm13g09> craag: Focal Distance
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> This one is 1250mm so about 2x
[14:52] <LeoBodnar> ANyway we should try it
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> I'll get it hooked up and see if I can manually control it from UART
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[14:54] <craag> Yep sounds like a plan, if anything it should be a lot more stable than my tripod
[14:54] <craag> motion blur ruined about 75% of the shots.
[14:55] <mattbrejza> craag: if you wanted something in soton to try it out on, i reckon you could use the physics telescopes
[14:56] <craag> :D
[14:56] <craag> That would be awesome
[14:56] <mattbrejza> i dont know if the interface would be anything standardized
[14:57] <craag> Probably not, that'll be fine.
[14:58] <craag> Do you know anything more about them, like whether they support video output?
[14:58] <mattbrejza> nothing, but some people in susf have used them and will probably be willing to help out
[14:59] <mattbrejza> would be cool if they were remote control with a webcam on them
[14:59] <craag> Yep!
[14:59] <mattbrejza> (not sure thats the case)
[15:01] <craag> Ok, that would be great to look into next month.
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[15:03] <craag> Erm Leo you might have been 1-upped, but we'll see, are you going to the conf?
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> Possibly yes!
[15:04] <craag> Ok, possibly talk to you about it then!
[15:05] <LeoBodnar> ok
[15:10] <mattbrejza> well hopefully program once, work with both
[15:10] <mattbrejza> also these ones are somewhat fixed
[15:10] <mattbrejza> and there are limited balloons flying our way
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[15:27] <craag> Yep, would be fun to have a portable one at the predicted landing site and track the entire flight.
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[15:32] <Steve_2E0VET> why would my signal go like this ? http://imgur.com/97RO6Q6
[15:33] <cde> Steve_2E0VET: there was a deer crossing the waves
[15:33] <Steve_2E0VET> cde, there are lots of beer then its constent
[15:34] <Willdude123> Hmm
[15:34] <cde> hmm
[15:34] <Willdude123> My netbook was making a strange pulsing sound.
[15:34] <craag> Yep, could
[15:34] <Willdude123> About one per second.
[15:34] <craag> ^^ ignore that
[15:34] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, you are always making a strange pulsating sound
[15:34] <cde> craag: on the contrary. elaborate
[15:34] <Willdude123> Ah I know, it was signalling every time it can make a floating-point calculation
[15:35] <Willdude123> :)
[15:35] <craag> cde: Pressed: 'up', 'enter' on the wrong window :/
[15:35] <cde> the mistery, is now solved.
[15:35] <craag> :)
[15:36] <Steve_2E0VET> how is the gps time determined in u-centre does it get it direct from gps or via the code
[15:38] <Willdude123> Oh shoot. I need to be revising for my ham license.
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[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> Is my board supposed to look like this in Eagle? http://postimg.org/image/4cs9g4ukn/
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> It's dark grey. I wondered if that was normal
[15:51] <LeoBodnar> ping Upu
[15:54] <Upu> hey LeoBodnar
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> Hey, few questions - what are these ping hex chars after the last field https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Data/m0upu-11.htm
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> *pink
[15:56] <Upu> A=071790|!R|PA/M0UPU,1491,0<0xfc>0
[15:57] <Upu> 0xfc ?
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[15:57] <LeoBodnar> yes
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> they seem random
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[15:58] <Upu> checksum ?
[15:58] <Upu> A=%06ld|%s|%s/M0UPU,%d,%i,ALSO RTTY/434.45U7N2",
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> some lines don't have it
[15:58] <Upu> check sum
[15:59] <LeoBodnar> Check sum for what?
[16:00] <Upu> the APRS packet
[16:01] <Upu> I think I didn't write the APRS part of the code
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> APRS checksum is stripped at RX point
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> e.g. here: http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6JCX-11
[16:01] <LeoBodnar> Maybe you included checksum twice?
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[16:01] <Upu> not intentionally
[16:02] <LeoBodnar> OK, it's not a deliberate thing then, never mind!
[16:04] <LeoBodnar> The other question is how one can scan aprs.fi data for altitude reporting devices? I want to figure out airborne APRS use by actually looking if it is being used.
[16:05] <LeoBodnar> E.g. I have found somebody flying APRS equipped Kitfox 4 plane in Finland http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FOH-XKR&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[16:05] <jcoxon> someone in the us has a website that does this
[16:05] <Upu> generally flying stuff has -11 at the end of the call sign
[16:05] <jcoxon> you'll probably do better looking at findu rather than aprs.fi
[16:05] <Upu> you can do *-11 on apris.fi
[16:05] <jcoxon> that said the person who runs aprs.fi pops on here occasionally
[16:06] <LeoBodnar> This plane did not have -11 and it did not even have altitude, I just happened to spot it by the icon
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[16:08] <Upu> its not an enforced standard
[16:08] <Steve_2E0VET> why would my signal go like this ? http://imgur.com/97RO6Q6
[16:08] <Upu> http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=SymbolsAndSSIDs
[16:08] <craag> haha APRS in a sentence :P
[16:08] <Upu> lol
[16:08] <Upu> which radio is it Steve_2E0VET ?
[16:08] <Upu> temperature change is it in the sun ?
[16:08] <Steve_2E0VET> ft857
[16:08] <Upu> no the transmitter
[16:09] <Steve_2E0VET> yes i think it was in the sun at the time
[16:09] <Upu> NTX2 / RFM22B will do that
[16:09] <Steve_2E0VET> ntx2
[16:09] <Upu> touch the crystal whilst its running
[16:09] <Upu> thats why I use the LMT2 with the TCXO
[16:09] <Steve_2E0VET> have another wiered one as well
[16:10] <Steve_2E0VET> http://imgur.com/ZMVlKF5
[16:10] <Upu> thats a delay in the code ?
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> hey Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tm7s5qfi7fas8t/NORB_v2.png
[16:11] <Steve_2E0VET> ok thanks.. its the first time i have seen only one carrier
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[16:11] <Upu> I'd drive the NTX2 via PWM
[16:11] <Upu> ibanezmatt13
[16:11] <Upu> but looks fine
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> have I wired the TPS61201 correctly? I've also added a BMP085
[16:12] <Upu> loose the power LED :)
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[16:12] <Steve_2E0VET> upu ?? do you mean use one of the digital pins instead of the VCC
[16:12] <Upu> pullups on the SCL/SDA lines
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> yeah missed those out
[16:12] <Upu> Steve_2E0VET you can drive the NTX2 using PWM i.e pin 9 on the Arduino
[16:13] <Upu> its how I drive the LMT2 on habduino
[16:13] <Steve_2E0VET> upu , ok thanks, but whats the difference?
[16:13] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Should I drive the NTX2 without the resistive divider circuit?
[16:13] <Steve_2E0VET> or advantage
[16:13] <Upu> put it in
[16:13] <Upu> just don't populate it
[16:14] <Upu> mystical 0R0
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> So I don't use the 4k7s either?
[16:14] <Upu> no
[16:14] <Upu> you can put something in the way to reduce the range
[16:14] <Upu> but put the pads on
[16:14] <Upu> so you can do both depending how you wire it
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> So I need three 0R0s would allow me to use PWM?
[16:14] <Upu> no just 1
[16:15] <Upu> leave the 4K7's off
[16:15] <Steve_2E0VET> how is the gps time determined in u-centre does it get it direct from gps or via the code
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> But I still have pads for the 4k7s Upu ?
[16:15] <Upu> yes
[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[16:15] <Upu> this way you can make board 1 as you know works
[16:15] <Upu> then you have a base line for messing with board 2 / PWM
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> one more thing Upu, http://postimg.org/image/4cs9g4ukn/ why is that dark grey?
[16:16] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: You mean the little clock? it gets it from the NMEA from the GPS
[16:16] <Upu> no idea
[16:16] <Upu> settings in Eagle ?
[16:16] <Upu> afk a few
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[16:18] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: did you use the box tool of the line tool to do that?
[16:18] <mattbrejza> the outline
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> I used the polygon tool
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> Layer = dimentsion
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> dimension
[16:18] <mattbrejza> oh dont use polygon
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> :O
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[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'll redo it with the square one
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:18] <mattbrejza> dont use sqaure either
[16:18] <mattbrejza> use the line one :P
[16:19] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, any particular sentance
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[16:20] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, did you have additional thoughts on the board?
[16:20] <Steve_2E0VET> problem is i have 2 scripts, but one sets the clock and one doesnt, does that mean i have a problem with the script?
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> looks significantly better now mattbrejza
[16:21] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: so youve got it in a state where it isnt shorting?
[16:21] <mattbrejza> and youve connected the scope?
[16:21] <mattbrejza> and you get just DC?
[16:21] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Can't remember ottomh, I think a few might carry time information.
[16:21] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Take a look at the incoming packets under the views.
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> well yea, back in the lab I had it that the battery didn't get hot
[16:21] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> and I had the scope connected behind transistor 2, so on SIG
[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> and there was only 50 Hz humming
[16:22] <mattbrejza> did you cover the photodiode?
[16:22] <mattbrejza> and wrap the whole lot in Al foil?
[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> I first wanted to see what happens if I hook it up like it is
[16:30] <Willdude123> Hmm#]
[16:30] <Willdude123> It's been outside
[16:30] <Willdude123> 1k sentences
[16:30] <Willdude123> Still no lock
[16:31] <Willdude123> What couild cause interference?
[16:31] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: its pretty noisy without the Al shield though
[16:31] <mattbrejza> als owhat scpoe and settings were you using?
[16:31] <craag> Willdude123: Is this on the beaglebone?
[16:31] <mattbrejza> sometimes only get a pulse every min or so
[16:32] <Willdude123> Yeah
[16:32] <Willdude123> With UBX
[16:32] <mattbrejza> and theyre very short
[16:32] <Willdude123> Ublox
[16:32] <Willdude123> NMEA
[16:32] <Willdude123> GPGGA#
[16:32] <craag> Willdude123: How far is the GPS module (antenna) from the beaglbone?
[16:32] <Willdude123> As far as possible.
[16:32] <Willdude123> About 5 cm mayber
[16:32] <Willdude123> *maybe
[16:33] <daveake> Make it longer
[16:33] <craag> yeah
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, ah ok
[16:33] <daveake> Could also be a poor power supply
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> I got an old Philips CRT scope, 20 MHz I think
[16:33] <mattbrejza> yea ull need a storage scope
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> and I had it set to 20 ms/div and 10 mV/div
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:36] <Willdude123> How?
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, thanks for the tip :)
[16:36] <mattbrejza> ive used 500ns/div to capture these pulses before
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[16:36] <Willdude123> daveake, Is this another "I actually think you should make it shorter, but you ignore good advice." ?
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea have to ask my prof if we have a tektronix scope to spare
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> the ones we have at the EPR spectrometers should be able to do it
[16:37] <daveake> Having made my point, this is back to "do as I say"
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[16:38] <mattbrejza> you dont need a particarly fast one, but the most ull see from a analogue one is an occasional blimp
[16:38] <mattbrejza> if that
[16:38] <Willdude123> Sure. Just wanted to be clear. Thanks for the good advice.
[16:38] <daveake> And in that vein - buy a DMM
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[16:38] <Willdude123> Yes ordered one off ebay
[16:38] <Willdude123> Should I use male- female jumper wires to make it longer?
[16:39] <Steve_2E0VET> ping upu
[16:39] <daveake> Erm what connectors are there at each end?
[16:40] <Willdude123> Female headers on the Ublox, connected to jumper wires-male connected to BBB- Female.
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, ok
[16:41] <Willdude123> Should I do Female Headers on Ublox -> Male Jumper Wires -> Female-Male Jumper Wires -> BBB ?
[16:41] <daveake> I'll ask a different question. What connectors are soldered onto the UBlox, and same question but BBB
[16:43] <craag> Willdude123: Whatever fits, wire length isn't as issue.
[16:46] <Steve_2E0VET> anyone know if the sarentel antenna is the same as the one on the DVAPS
[16:47] <craag> DVAPS?
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[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, I think I will rework the board anyway, to get the 12V battery on there and get rid of the stepup circuit
[16:47] <Willdude123> Right
[16:47] <mattbrejza> well might as well get it working on what you ahve first?
[16:48] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, http://www.dvapdongle.com/DV_Access_Point_Dongle/Home.html
[16:48] <Willdude123> daveake, On the board is a 0.1 inch header, female and female headers on the BBB, presumably 0.1 inch too
[16:48] <daveake> Willdude123 Just make sure you have good connections (esp. as this seems to have been a problem so far)
[16:48] <Willdude123> Yeah
[16:49] <Willdude123> I'm receiving GPGGA sentences.
[16:49] <Willdude123> Just with blank fields.
[16:49] <daveake> OK my suggestion is matching sockets and solder wires to those
[16:49] <daveake> OK give it time
[16:49] <Willdude123> Well, I gave it around 20 mins but I'll try again
[16:50] <Willdude123> Sounds like a real pain to diagnose interference.
[16:51] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: No it isn't. The sarantel is tuned for GPS, the DV access point will be tuned for 2m/70cm I guess.
[16:51] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, didnt think of that lol.... i'm lost without a cps antenna, i wonder if radiosonde antenna will work?
[16:52] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: What gps module do you need the antenna for?
[16:52] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: my version of the circuit http://i.imgur.com/uf0AUEk.jpg
[16:52] <Steve_2E0VET> ublox
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks mattbrejza
[16:52] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, max6
[16:53] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: You can order the sarantel through Upu's shop, for the moment (until stock runs out).
[16:53] <mfa298> for testing a small groundplan antenna might work
[16:53] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, i know but i want something NOW!!! i will be ordering tomorrow
[16:54] <craag> You could make a wire 1/4 wave like Leo uses.
[16:54] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, what do you mean till they run out? is he stopping stocking them
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> be back later
[16:54] <craag> Just be careful not to fry the rf input with static (like Leo has once)
[16:54] <mfa298> Willdude123: I don't suppose your FCD goes up to 1.5GHz - that could provide an indication of interference.
[16:54] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, i have put a 2inch piece of ire on...
[16:54] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Sarantel have gone bust.
[16:55] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, oh dear so what will we use instead?
[16:55] <Willdude123> I don't think so
[16:55] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Upu is investigating several alternatives, but he has stock for the moment.
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[16:55] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, did Leo just use a length of wire?
[16:56] <mfa298> Willdude123: if it's based on the E4000 (which I think the original ones were) it should go that high
[16:56] <Willdude123> Plus I can't find it atm
[16:56] <mattbrejza> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/ Steve_2E0VET
[16:56] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Pages/3.html
[16:56] <mattbrejza> :P
[16:57] <Steve_2E0VET> argh yes he told me about that
[16:57] <Willdude123> Oh god
[16:57] <Willdude123> I can't find it
[16:57] <Steve_2E0VET> what frequency do the radio sondes transmit on?
[16:58] <craag> ~407 MHz I think
[16:58] <Willdude123> T'is the pro 1.0
[16:58] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: If the 2 inch piece of wire doesn't work, I think you'll have to wait for the antenna.
[16:59] <Steve_2E0VET> cragg yes think i will. but also not sure if my script is at fault
[17:00] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: What did you get from ucenter?
[17:00] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, with the script on ukhas i got the time after a few minutes, with my script i didnt
[17:01] <craag> Time should turn up in seconds.
[17:01] <craag> Wait for an antenna.
[17:01] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, if i remember correctly it didnt get the time with the antenna lol
[17:02] <Steve_2E0VET> anyone familer with the radisondes http://www.hobeco.net/pdf/RS80_radiosondes.pdf
[17:04] <Willdude123> daveake, The wiring must be OK because it's receiving nmea now so the prob must be with the antenna/interference
[17:04] <jcoxon> Willdude123, is the gps indoors?
[17:05] <Willdude123> no
[17:05] <jcoxon> if its not had a lock before it can take up to an hour
[17:05] <jcoxon> rarely but has been known
[17:05] <mfa298> Willdude123: looks like the original FCD went up to 1.7GHz so it might give an indication of interference (compare the noise level as you turn stuff on and off
[17:06] <daveake> Lassens always seemed particularly good at taking ages to get a lock on launch days
[17:06] <daveake> It was like they knew
[17:07] <Willdude123> mfa298 There's definitely something there.
[17:08] <x-f> found this on one frame only at around 13 km altitude - http://i.imgur.com/l8v2Jro.png - could that be some mighty particle from.. uh.. space?
[17:09] <Willdude123> Goes from around -50 before to -60 on 1.5ghz
[17:09] <bertrik> lens flare perhaps?
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: How do I make the background of the board editor black? The white is terrible
[17:10] <mattbrejza> view->apperence or somthing like that
[17:10] <mattbrejza> have a clikc around at the top menus
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[17:11] <x-f> bertrik, sun is behind the camera. i'll try to post a short video
[17:12] <mfa298> Willdude123: what are you doing as it changes as that will indicate what could be casusing interference
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> nothing on the top menu mattbrejza
[17:12] <Willdude123> Scrolling to change the center
[17:12] <mattbrejza> options -> UI ibanezmatt13
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> that's it mattbrejza, got it. Thanks
[17:13] <mfa298> Willdude123: that will just be differences in background noise. To determine interference you need to turn things on and off and see if the background noise level changes as you do it
[17:15] <Willdude123> Such as?
[17:16] <mfa298> things like the BBB
[17:16] <mfa298> you'll need the FCD to be fairly close to the BBB and gps as you do it.
[17:17] <mfa298> The idea is that if something is causing interference as you turn it off the noise level that the fcd see should drop
[17:18] <mfa298> finding out what could be interfering is a process of elimination
[17:18] <x-f> oh, there's more of them as white spots that last just one frame, must be aliens
[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
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[17:28] <Willdude123> Well I've had enough for today
[17:28] <Willdude123> Will do some more testing tomorrow
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> Laying the parts for a TPS61201 in Eagle is officially the most difficult thing I have ever attempted
[17:31] <ibanezmatt13> 4 Restarts so far and still not got it
[17:32] <Willdude123> Nothing there really.
[17:32] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[17:35] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: copy the datasheets layout
[17:35] <mattbrejza> or the dev board layout
[17:36] <mattbrejza> also youve already sent off the first one and youre pcb'in again?
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> How does aprs.fi filter system work? Well, it does not
[17:37] <LeoBodnar> I am trying to select icon = Aircraft, what a silly simple task
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13> yep mattbrejza :)
[17:37] <x-f> bertrik left, but perhaps anybody else wants to take a look? ~0:09 - http://youtu.be/gSXvtyhD-dM
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[17:41] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[17:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> x-f,What type of camera was it ?
[17:47] <x-f> 808 keychain type, #16 (i think)
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[17:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There is a repeating flash in the lower left, which seems to remain fixed on 1 pixel ?
[17:51] <x-f> above time?
[17:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> two frames after the 4 second mark, and then repeats a few frames apart.
[17:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> similar at the 5 second mark repeats three times.
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[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> so back we are
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> ahm
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> how do you make that flux capacitor thing?
[17:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You start by bying a Flux pen and then soldering SMD capacitors to a board in ever decreasing sizes.
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah thank you
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[18:14] <Upu> from now on I'm implementing a system , if you ping me it costs you £1
[18:14] <Upu> Willdude123 and ibanezmatt13 are going to need a loan from the bank
[18:15] <fsphil> I like this idea
[18:15] <mfa298> maybe you should offer special packs of pings. 10 for £15
[18:15] <Upu> sounds like a plan
[18:15] <fsphil> wrong kind of special
[18:16] <mfa298> more that the people using such deals are special
[18:16] <mfa298> although I've heard stories of bars offering £1/bottle or 4 bottles for £5
[18:17] <fsphil> saw that at tesco once. a product for 50p, and a big sign giving a special offer of 5 for £3
[18:17] <daveake> Buy one get one for full price
[18:17] <daveake> Tax on stupidity
[18:18] <mfa298> Asda had something similar, 12 pack on special for £9, 6 packs for £4 each (or something like that)
[18:18] <fsphil> think it was just a typo. doubt the checkout would have added more money depending on how much they buy
[18:18] <mfa298> I bought 2 6 packs
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[18:21] <daveake> http://www.jasonbrown.me/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Tesco-silly-offers-1101.jpg
[18:21] <daveake> not bad ...
[18:22] <Upu> oh I have a picture of one like that on my phone
[18:24] <fsphil> yep!
[18:24] <fsphil> not just a one off then
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[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> I am considering making all my flight boards PCBs now
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't know if the "size" seperation still will be there
[18:31] <Willdude123> Upu Huh?
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> at the moment I have the small board with an atmega328 originally intended to fly on the Berlin balloon which I called "Galedrifter"
[18:32] <Willdude123> Why? I want to talk to you Upu
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> and I got the double-deck tracker which I called "Stormdrifter II"
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> when I now make a PCB, I don't know if there still will be this seperation
[18:33] <Willdude123> Upu: I thought after being so generous you wouldn't do such a thing.
[18:33] <Willdude123> But I guess I was wrong.
[18:34] <nigelvh> Upu, Got my new board working. The chip seems to still work well in it's proximity. http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IMG_0118.jpg
[18:34] <nigelvh> GPS chip antenna I should say.
[18:34] <Willdude123> Upu I have no clue what could be interefering.
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi nigelvh
[18:36] <nigelvh> Howdy Lunar
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[18:37] Nick change: KyleYankan -> KyleYankanD
[18:37] <nigelvh> Doing pretty good. As you can see, my new boards came, I've assembled one, and it seems to turn on.
[18:38] <nigelvh> And the GPS got lock.
[18:38] <fsphil> good start
[18:38] <cde> nigelvh: looks like a nifty board. what does it do? besides receiving gps
[18:38] <nigelvh> TX/RX APRS on the 2m band.
[18:39] <cde> nigelvh: very cool. did you solder all those smd by hand?
[18:39] <nigelvh> 100mW output.
[18:39] <nigelvh> Yes, all the passives I did by hand, the radio chip and the boost converter I used hot air, and the atmega was done by hand.
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, sounds good!
[18:39] <cde> that's awesome
[18:40] <Steve_2E0VET> how did cyclops get on?
[18:40] <nigelvh> Well, the chip is capable of recieve, so now it's a matter of doing the code to receive.
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, you probably read my consideration about different board sizes above
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> what is your opinion?
[18:46] Nick change: KyleYankanD -> KyleYankan
[18:49] <nigelvh> I have not, but what's the deal?
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> currently I have two different protoboard designs
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought if I make a proper PCB it might be no point to have different PCBs with different AVRs
[18:56] <Willdude123> Upu Also I'm too young for a loan.
[18:57] <Willdude123> Upu sorry is it annoying? My GPS won't work and I need help.
[18:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Willdude123, What was the result of talking to the GPS via a serial port from a normal computer ?
[18:58] <Willdude123> Fine. I got it working, just no lock
[18:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> So what has happened since then ? I see you talking about interference ?
[19:01] <daveake> Willdude123 Just a general comment - plenty of people here to help - no need to single out Upu. We're all busy people and he gets pinged an awful lot
[19:02] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander, so I'm not sure what the question is. Just make one board that does the job.
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> wasn't really a question but a statement
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:03] <nigelvh> No reason to make two unless you forsee using them as separate devices.
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> that is true#
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> another question
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> what about heat load on a PCB?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. the corner where the cutdown mosfet is for example
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> shall one keep that away from other devices or so?
[19:13] <nigelvh> Are the other parts heat sensitive?
[19:14] <nigelvh> If yes, then yes, if no, then no.
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> no, no heat sensitive parts
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> wonder if I should, for example, make a SMD microSD slot
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> or use one of the breakouts I still have
[19:18] <nigelvh> I know many of the smd microSD slots are hard or impossible to solder without hot air, so keep that in mind.
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> if I want to include a breakout, should I like copy myself a header with the required amount of contacts and draw a box around it to get the size of the breakout
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> so to speak
[19:20] <nigelvh> Sure, if you want the breakout to fit on your board. Or you could just do a header with the number of contacts and run wires.
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> what I was thinking about today was, I was using servo cables for my DS18B20 so far
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> and what I did was cutting off the socket at the end, and soldering the wires to the board
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> so that I would have a socket for the servo cable
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> and I was thinking on how to do that on a PCB
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> as the cables are a bit of a mess
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> without insulation, they fuss around
[19:23] <nigelvh> Yes, I generally prefer to have as few wires as possible as the PCB will be infinitely cleaner.
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> would have to think of a workaround
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[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[19:50] <Upu> hi Matt
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu, I was in Eagle before trying to create another PCB using the TPS61201 and I had to restart 5 times because I couldn't wire the TPS61201 up
[19:51] <Upu> polygons
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> I had all the tracks made for every component and I had to stop because of the regulator
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> polygons?
[19:51] <mattbrejza> make sure you get the placement right first
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> that's a problem too mattbrejza
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> I can't position the caps and things in a way which actually works. It's the most bizzare chip
[19:52] <mattbrejza> well lets see what youve got
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> nothing at the moment.
[19:52] <mikestir> did you make the grid smaller?
[19:52] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I had the alt grid on finest
[19:53] <Upu> don't use finest
[19:53] <mikestir> I tend to have the main grid set for a small imperial spacing and the alt grid for a metric one
[19:53] <mikestir> and what Upu said
[19:53] <Upu> ok quick spam
[19:53] <mattbrejza> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61201.pdf pg 17
[19:53] <Upu> you need to set your grid as follows :
[19:53] <Upu> 0.0396875
[19:53] <Upu> 0.079375
[19:53] <Upu> 0.15875
[19:53] <Upu> 0.3175
[19:53] <Upu> 0.635
[19:53] <Upu> 1.27
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> let me write those down
[19:53] <Upu> and yes as Matt says the Data sheet has a sample layout
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> I tried to copy that example layout and I couldn't get it to work.
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> You mentioned polygons Upu?
[19:54] <mattbrejza> tbh when SMD no longer conforms to the old fractions of .1", those grid sizes arnt really neded
[19:54] <Upu> yes
[19:54] <Upu> ok demo time
[19:54] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: polygons wont help you route
[19:54] <Upu> its how you lay it out
[19:54] <mattbrejza> it just means you get nice large current carrying traces
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I tried to keep the traces thick and short
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> and the caps as close to the chip as possible
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> didn't work
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: btw, my younger brother loves his traffic lights :)
[19:56] <mattbrejza> ah good
[19:56] <mattbrejza> that pcb came quickely
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> stripboard :)
[19:56] <Upu> https://join.me/527-426-073
[19:56] <mattbrejza> ah
[19:56] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, what would make the "setting nav mode fail"
[19:57] <Upu> no comms back from the module
[19:57] <Upu> ok are you in matt ?
[19:57] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, cheers
[19:57] <mattbrejza> i dunno why im watching...
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[19:58] <Upu> can you see this ibanezmatt13 ?
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> yep
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[19:58] <Willdude123> Upu were you being serious about the £1?
[19:59] <daveake> +VAT
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[19:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> what about +pp
[20:00] <mfa298> typing expenses
[20:03] Action: daveake registers habhelp.com
[20:03] <Upu> following this ibanezmatt13 ?
[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> think so
[20:05] <fsphil> put it on my habtab
[20:05] <mfa298> daveake: don't forget helpnear.us
[20:05] <fsphil> takeitfrom.us
[20:06] <daveake> dothework4.me
[20:06] <fsphil> bah, already registered
[20:07] <mfa298> help4habs.org
[20:08] <daveake> itsinthewiki.com
[20:08] <Upu> you get the idea
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[20:09] <Upu> well bit messy
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> I'd never think to do polygons instead of tracks
[20:09] <Upu> note gnd continious gnd plane
[20:09] <Upu> afk making a brew
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[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yay Upu at the EAGLE again
[20:10] Action: fsphil giggles at "ground plane"
[20:10] <fsphil> isn't that a bus?
[20:10] <nigelvh> Do busses have wings?
[20:10] <fsphil> sadly not
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I understand a little more. What do you mean by the continuous ground plane exactly
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see what you mean
[20:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://www.elmac.co.uk/pdfs/Lord_of_the_board.pdf
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I've been wondering this since I first looked at the Habduino schematic. Why are you using a mixture of 1206 and 0603 capacitors for that TPS61201?
[20:15] <Upu> ok see that ibanezmatt13 ?
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[20:16] <Upu> note gnd under it
[20:16] <Upu> continious
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> got it, I think I can do it now. I'm just a bit confused as to why there are different sized capacitors
[20:16] <Upu> like that
[20:16] <Willdude123> Upu how much do I owe you?
[20:16] <Upu> back in a mo
[20:20] <Upu> it was a joke Willdude123 to point out that every time you say my name it makes my IRC blink
[20:20] <Willdude123> Turn that off then :P
[20:20] <Upu> just ask your questions without my name in them, so many people can help here not just me :)
[20:20] <Willdude123> Right OK The GPS isn't getting lock outside
[20:21] <Upu> and how are you testing it ?
[20:21] <Upu> sorry I wizzed through that ibanezmatt13 if it wasn't clear let me know
[20:21] <Willdude123> BBB
[20:21] <Willdude123> Getting blank GPGGA
[20:21] <Upu> right screw that
[20:21] <Upu> throw it to one side
[20:21] <Upu> FTDI + module + PC
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I'll try and do it myself as it did make more sense. Could you tell me why you used different sized capacitors?
[20:22] <Willdude123> Why would it make a difference, also can't go outside atm
[20:22] <Upu> fine Willdude123 send it back
[20:22] <Willdude123> But
[20:22] <daveake> Why do you think it might make a difference Willdude123 ?
[20:22] <daveake> Use some logic here
[20:22] <Willdude123> The BBB might be emitting some signal at 1.5ghz
[20:23] <Upu> because 10µF in 0603 are generally low voltage
[20:23] <daveake> No lock means ..... no signal or too much interference or dodgy power supply or broken antenna
[20:23] <Upu> Willdude123
[20:23] <daveake> And given more than one possibility, reduce the options by a process of elimination
[20:23] <Upu> the antenna pin under he patch antenna
[20:23] <Upu> isn't touching anything is it ?
[20:24] <Willdude123> No I don't think it was.
[20:24] <Willdude123> Might have touched the table.
[20:24] <Willdude123> Will do more testing tomorrow.
[20:24] <Upu> generally ibanezmatt13 the 22uF 0603's only come in 4V
[20:24] <Upu> which is probably enough but would rather not risk it
[20:24] <Upu> though really it only matters for C7
[20:24] <Upu> the input cap
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, makes sense
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a go
[20:25] <Willdude123> daveake, Can I test the power supply by checkign the voltage applied to VCC and check the voltage/ampage?
[20:25] <Willdude123> *checking the voltage/ampage
[20:26] <daveake> Just look up the max current rating of the BBB 3.3V supply
[20:26] <daveake> Needs to be at least 150mA
[20:27] <cde> what would be the best candidate, wrt/ power consumption? isn't the BBB for instance too power hungry?
[20:27] <daveake> It should be obvious that you can measure the voltage, you know, with a voltmeter
[20:28] <daveake> No idea about the BBB
[20:28] <Upu> there you go ibanezmatt13
[20:28] <cde> I was considering the RPi. with the addon camera they sell
[20:28] <Upu> like that
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> looks good Upu. Let me screen shot it
[20:28] <Upu> haha
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> ok got it :)
[20:28] <daveake> cde OK wasn't quite sure what you were asking there. Yeah the model A Pi is reasonable at 115mA
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> I'll see what I can do
[20:29] <cde> daveake: is there a difference with the model B?
[20:29] <daveake> The addon camera uses more than that
[20:29] <daveake> lots
[20:29] <daveake> B is 450mA IIRC
[20:29] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cggfvccml06mqax/tps_demo.zip
[20:29] <daveake> and seeing as you don't need wired internet in a HAB ....
[20:29] <cde> darn I have 2 model Bs
[20:30] <Willdude123> daveake, It's 250ma
[20:30] <Upu> ok Willdude123
[20:30] <Upu> lets consider
[20:30] <Upu> it worked when it left me
[20:30] <daveake> Well the A is pretty cheap. You can develop on the B and then chuck the SD card in an A
[20:30] <Upu> and the antenna is pretty robust so I'm going to call some local issue
[20:31] <Willdude123> ok
[20:31] <Upu> now you may be able to detune it by touching the antenna on the bottom
[20:31] <Upu> pastebin the output
[20:31] <Willdude123> Me?
[20:31] <Willdude123> Of what?
[20:32] <Upu> the NMEA you are getting
[20:32] <daveake> I once put a GPS module into a little plastic box before taping it to a car roof for a test. Didn't get a lock. Eventually the penny dropped ... the box was an anti-static one.
[20:32] <Willdude123> So touch the antenna on the bottom?
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> That seems unlikely
[20:32] <Upu> no Willdude123
[20:32] <Upu> don't touch the antenna
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Unless it was a very unusually conductive one
[20:32] <Willdude123> OK
[20:32] <Upu> send the NMEA output via pastebin
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[20:33] <SpeedEvil> Stuff touching the antenna has a different effect - it detunes it
[20:33] <Willdude123> Right
[20:33] <daveake> SpeedEvil enough to block the signal, not actually short anything
[20:33] <Upu> it can detune it
[20:33] <Upu> Will has a prototype board with a TAOGlas patch antenna on it
[20:34] <Willdude123> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48
[20:34] <Upu> this is not paste bin
[20:34] <Upu> ok Willdude123
[20:34] <Upu> remove the BBB thing
[20:34] <Willdude123> Better? http://pastie.org/8227715
[20:34] <Upu> and FTDI into a PC
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: That's 'I have no lock at all'
[20:35] <Upu> need to take the BBB out of the equation
[20:36] <mfa298> Willdude123: I suspect when Upu said pastebin the output he was after more than one sentence. The other GPS sentences are potentially useful as well.
[20:37] <Upu> Remember you sent the other GPS module back Willdude123 and there was nothing wrong with it ?
[20:37] <Upu> could be something local jamming it
[20:38] <daveake> Oh this is 2 modules neither working at Chez Will ?
[20:38] <Willdude123> Yes
[20:38] <daveake> Kinda points the finger at a local issue (as suggested several times already)
[20:38] <Willdude123> Upu what do you want me to do?
[20:38] <Willdude123> Plugged in
[20:39] <daveake> <Upu> remove the BBB thing
[20:39] <daveake> Damn that's £1
[20:39] Action: Upu notes it down
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> Gonna go switch off from the PC and go relax for a but. Night all, thanks Upu :)
[20:39] <daveake> <!Upu> and FTDI into a PC
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[20:39] <Upu> night Matt
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> nn
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[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> what's BBB?
[20:40] <daveake> BeagleBone Black, I think
[20:40] <mfa298> supposedly Beagle Bone Black, although I suspect there might be a better acronym
[20:40] <Willdude123> i've plugged it in now
[20:40] Action: daveake has been trying not to think of any
[20:41] <Willdude123> Upu u-center or putty?
[20:42] <Upu> putty
[20:42] <Willdude123> http://pastie.org/8227729
[20:43] <Upu> ok wait 5 mins
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, you got the chip GPS antenna on your board directly as I saw it
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> are there any precautions to look for?
[20:44] <Willdude123> I cant lean over that long
[20:45] <mfa298> Willdude123: from those GPGSV lines it looks like it's seeing some sats so something it happening
[20:45] <daveake> yup
[20:45] <daveake> Should have time rsn
[20:45] <Babs__> Evening everyone - so I've been making my own battery packs for my arduino so far but it's time to join the big league. Do people mainly use a mains power supply when they need to test away from the computer?
[20:45] <Willdude123> lock
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[20:46] <Willdude123> Still no clue why it doesn't work outside.
[20:46] <Willdude123> Probably the antenna touching something.
[20:46] <Willdude123> Right will try with the BBB again tomorrow.
[20:47] <mfa298> could also be interference from the BBB
[20:47] <Willdude123> Wait
[20:47] <Willdude123> No, no lock
[20:47] <Willdude123> I read it wrong, I just saw a load of populated fields
[20:47] <mfa298> Lock may come and go depending on what sats it sees
[20:48] <daveake> So the antenna is inside???
[20:48] <Willdude123> Outside window
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[20:49] <Willdude123> 14 SVs in view
[20:49] <daveake> Antenna touching anything?
[20:49] <Willdude123> No
[20:49] <daveake> ok just wait
[20:49] <Willdude123> Must have been that I guess.
[20:49] <Willdude123> But why it didn't work with the first board.
[20:49] <Willdude123> Idk
[20:50] <Willdude123> Not getting gga for some reason
[20:50] <Willdude123> Just GLL and GSV
[20:51] <Willdude123> And VTG
[20:51] <Willdude123> Oh now I am
[20:51] <Willdude123> I get intermittent lock
[20:53] <Willdude123> Will test outside tomorrow.
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[20:53] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander, yes, the GPS chip antenna is directly on my board.
[20:54] <nigelvh> Just make sure there is NO GROUND PLANE on either side around it.
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[20:54] <nigelvh> And make the trace connecting the ublox and the chip as short as possible.
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> I actually woke up this morning from a bad dream, I thought I had left the gnd plane under my chip antenna on the boards I just sent away...
[20:54] <nigelvh> Haha
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> When you dream about pcb's you know you need a break
[20:55] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, Made any progress at all?
[20:55] <nigelvh> I'll admit that I've had similar dreams.
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, yeah fsphil is being very helpful explaining some bits to me
[20:55] <Willdude123> I had a bad dream that SR71 Blackbirds crossbreeded with dementors and attacked london.
[20:55] <chrisstubbs> done the callsign encoding, which is the first step of many
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> supersonic soul suckers
[20:56] <Willdude123> It was scary
[20:56] <Willdude123> Indeed
[20:56] <chrisstubbs> good band name, write that one down
[20:56] <Willdude123> They were attacking, not soul sucking
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[20:56] <Willdude123> And they were autonomous
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[20:58] <mfa298> Willdude123: have you checked how much power the BBB can supply from it's 3v3 pins ?
[20:59] <Willdude123> Yeah 250ma
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[20:59] <Willdude123> Plenty
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[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I noted those grid sizes on my other PC but I'm on my laptop and I need them, could you send them once more? :/
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> sorry
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[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> no need Upu. Just realised they're only factors of 1.27 :P
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[21:45] <Willdude123> Hi
[21:46] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: if it's the bits posted here earlier there's always the logs
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> it's ok mfa298, I've got it. You can get them by just dividing 1.27 by 2 a few times :)
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[21:56] <Steve_2E0VET> I am really strulling with a ublox, firstly what sets the time in u-centre (bottom right hand corner)
[21:59] <Steve_2E0VET> the hardware serial script on the wiki works OK and time is displayed, but the script just uses a println of the nema string, hich i presume is the raw data from the gps
[21:59] <Steve_2E0VET> is it part of that data thats sets the time, or is it script independant
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[22:03] <jcoxon> Steve_2E0VET, what raw data are you getting?
[22:03] <jcoxon> can you paste it somwehere
[22:05] <Steve_2E0VET> jcoxon, not at the moment i have just put everything away and have to take it outside to have a hope in hell of getting a signal
[22:05] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:05] <jcoxon> yeah gps is frustrating
[22:05] <Steve_2E0VET> tell me about it
[22:05] <jcoxon> so many hours wasted trying to get a lock
[22:06] <Steve_2E0VET> yep
[22:06] <Steve_2E0VET> been on this 2 weeks now, dont know if it is the script or something else
[22:06] <jcoxon> as always the trick is to go back to basics
[22:06] <Steve_2E0VET> do you know how u-centre gets the time?
[22:06] <Steve_2E0VET> when i use the script from the wiki everything is OK
[22:07] <jcoxon> i assume u-center gets it from the system clock
[22:07] <Steve_2E0VET> but because I dont know gps and how it gets the info i end up going round in circles
[22:07] <Steve_2E0VET> no im sure its from the gps
[22:07] <jcoxon> are you going for nmea of ubx binary to get your data
[22:07] <jcoxon> or*
[22:08] <Steve_2E0VET> ucenter says protocol NMEA
[22:08] <jcoxon> what system are you planning to use your gps with?
[22:08] <jcoxon> arduino?
[22:08] <Steve_2E0VET> yeah arduino
[22:08] <jcoxon> okay
[22:08] <jcoxon> i'd skip u-center as a whole
[22:08] <Steve_2E0VET> ok
[22:09] <jcoxon> go for hte raw data
[22:09] <jcoxon> which will be in nmea format
[22:09] <Steve_2E0VET> im a complete novice what is hte raw data
[22:09] <jcoxon> that isn't a problem
[22:09] <jcoxon> nmea is human readable
[22:10] <Steve_2E0VET> ok,
[22:11] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: NMEA has a variety of strings which tell you various different things. For HAB the most useful one is GPGGA
[22:12] <mfa298> you might find the list on here useful http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/
[22:12] <Steve_2E0VET> yes i was just extracting GPGGA, but gone back to getting them all
[22:13] <jcoxon> Steve_2E0VET, you should be able to just use GPGGA for the basics
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[22:13] <Steve_2E0VET> maybe i am just not extracting the data crrectlty
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[22:16] <Steve_2E0VET> this is the code i am using at present http://pastebin.com/ZVAxTbep
[22:16] <mfa298> my advice with this sort of thing is do it a bit at a time and print lots of debug data
[22:16] <Steve_2E0VET> there are a lot of println's so i can see what is happening
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[22:17] <fsphil> I'd leave out the SD card stuff to begin with
[22:17] <Steve_2E0VET> i know the code is a bit messy and i need to try and tidy i up, but to be honest the GPS part it relitivly small
[22:17] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, agreed
[22:17] <Steve_2E0VET> fsp and the LED's
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[22:20] <fsphil> snprintf(data, DATASIZE, "$$BUBBLE-1,%d,%s,%s", s_id, get_info(), battery);
[22:20] <fsphil> get_info() is returning a single character
[22:20] <Steve_2E0VET> like i mentioned the Hardware Serial example works great and first time, but i just wasnt sure how to intergrate the RTTY so got some one elses code and tried modifying it
[22:21] <fsphil> char get_info() {
[22:21] <Steve_2E0VET> get_info() is supposed to return a few bits of data
[22:21] <fsphil> looks like you expect it to return a string
[22:21] <fsphil> you don't actually return anything from it
[22:21] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, that makes sense, the gps info was in a class nd i brought it back into the main code, that did have char before it
[22:21] <mfa298> I don't think get_info is returning anything at present (I don't spot a return command)
[22:21] <fsphil> I'm surprised the compiler isn't complaining loudly about that
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:22] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
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[22:22] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[22:22] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, i think the compiler has given up clomplaing
[22:22] <fsphil> lol Steve_2E0VET
[22:22] <jcoxon> fsphil, :-(
[22:22] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: there's a lot going on there. I'd take a step back, go back to basics
[22:23] <jcoxon> the ariss stuff is destroying me
[22:23] <mfa298> I think that code is also trying to use UBX commands to get the data rather than NMEA (Not a problem but different to what you said earlier)
[22:24] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, yes i agree BUT... the HWS example is about as basic as it gets and that works, however that does a println of the raw data to the screen, what i dont know how to do is to start manipulating that data
[22:24] <Steve_2E0VET> wether to put it all in an array and process it that way?
[22:25] <fsphil> jcoxon: still nothing? wonder if it's worth trying with a more powerful radio. like an ft857 -- if it works with that then at least you know the packet format is good
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, I thought that was needed to send the initialisation commands
[22:26] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: I was looking at your poll function for that.
[22:26] <jcoxon> fsphil, i wonder if my signal isn't terribly clean
[22:26] <mfa298> with NMEA the gps should just spit out NEMA sentences (unless you've turned them off)
[22:27] <Willdude123> Apart from being easier to parse? What benefits are there to using proprietary nmea?
[22:27] <fsphil> jcoxon: a low pass filter on the pwm output would do the job. the baofeng definitly has more bandwidth than the hx1, which is probably a bad thing
[22:27] <mfa298> NMEA isn't proprietary
[22:28] <nigelvh> The HX1 has a bit of a filter in it to begin with.
[22:28] <fsphil> yea, the ntx2 does too
[22:28] <nigelvh> If you're feeding the Baofeng straight PWM, I'd definitely filter that.
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, ok, noted... just looked at the HWS wiki and that appears to be using UBX
[22:29] <jcoxon> as its going through an optoisolator should i filter the input to the optoisolator or the output?
[22:29] <fsphil> output of the opto
[22:29] <nigelvh> Yeah.
[22:31] <Steve_2E0VET> which would be easier to use in the script NMEA or UBX
[22:31] <Steve_2E0VET> or will that generate different answers from different people
[22:31] <mfa298> I can't comment there. I don't have a UBlox (yet) so have only used NMEA.
[22:32] <fsphil> both have advantages, but for a first go then NMEA as it's something you can see as text
[22:32] <fsphil> it's easier to see what's going on
[22:32] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, can you not echo it out to the screen?
[22:32] <fsphil> ubx is just blocks of binary data
[22:33] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, how does that effect the ubx command that is sent to get round the 18km problem
[22:33] <Steve_2E0VET> would i still need that
[22:34] <fsphil> yes, however there's good examples that do only that
[22:34] <mfa298> once you've got something that's flight ready you need to be able to switch the gps into flightmode
[22:34] <fsphil> there are very few examples on using ubx for reading your position
[22:34] <mfa298> but at this point that's probably the least of your worries.
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[22:34] <cyclops> hi!
[22:34] <fsphil> evening cyclops
[22:34] <Steve_2E0VET> hi how did it go
[22:35] <mfa298> there's not much point switching to flightmode if you can't parse what the gps is telling you.
[22:35] <cyclops> sorry for not connceting before
[22:35] <cyclops> 3G problems
[22:35] <fsphil> for nmea you can just use tinygps
[22:35] <cyclops> everithing went well
[22:35] <fsphil> does all the parsing for you
[22:35] <cyclops> 4800 pics
[22:35] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, ok so last question for tonight, in the example it does Serial.write(GPS.read()); to read the gps data one charecter at a time )i think) is that NMEA data
[22:36] <Willdude123> Fsphil ubx is proprietary nmea
[22:36] <cyclops> and parachute was seen from the road
[22:36] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, did you retrieve it
[22:36] <cyclops> so was easy to spot
[22:36] <cyclops> yes Steve_2E0VET
[22:36] <Steve_2E0VET> cool
[22:36] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: a NMEA GPGGA string looks something like: $GPGGA,223334.000,5056.6432,N,00124.2999,W,1,03,5.0,95.8,M,47.6,M,,0000*77
[22:36] <cyclops> the only problem was
[22:37] <cyclops> that i lost RTTY at some points
[22:37] <fsphil> Willdude123: other than them both being a way of talking to a gps module, they're quite unrelated
[22:37] <cyclops> and that the camera didnt record the landing
[22:37] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, yes believe me i have seen thousands of them over the last couple of weeks lol
[22:37] <mfa298> what you get from your Ublox will depend on how it's configured (you can turn off all NMEA sentences at startup)
[22:37] <cyclops> but it took photos
[22:37] <Willdude123> Sorry client crashed what was that?
[22:38] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: if what you're printing out looks like that then it's NMEA, if it's binary data that you can't easily read then it's probably UBX
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[22:39] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, defo nmna,
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, I have read about tiny gps a lot, but cannot get my head round it
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> the examples are not very good
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[22:41] <fsphil> you feed tinygps each byte you receive from the gps
[22:41] <Steve_2E0VET> in one example it says the tinygps does not handle retrieving data from the gps, then the example shows software serial for rx/tx and has a while(nss.available) command, surly that is retirving the data
[22:41] <fsphil> and if the function returns true, it has read enough to work out the position
[22:41] <mfa298> I can't help there. My code is on a Pi so I'm parsing it manually instead
[22:42] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET, As fsphil says, you receive the data yourself then you throw it at tinygps
[22:42] <fsphil> tinygps itself doesn't do any reading
[22:43] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, i am positve you are correct, its just this http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/ shows differently unless i have the total wrong end of the stick
[22:44] <Steve_2E0VET> argh, pins 3 and 2 are defined
[22:44] <Steve_2E0VET> not 0/1
[22:44] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET, That code shows *exactly* what fsphil has told you
[22:45] <daveake> The loop() stuff, which is the application side, grabs characters (using software serial but could be hardware) then throws then (using gps.encode()) at the tinygps liibrary
[22:45] <daveake> Those characters could come from anywhere - tinygps doesn't care
[22:46] <Steve_2E0VET> and when gps.encode(c) is true it knows it has the required info ?
[22:46] <cyclops> daveake: I launched habduino today!
[22:46] <daveake> yes
[22:46] <daveake> cyclops Yes well done :)
[22:46] <cyclops> Everithing went perfectly!
[22:46] <daveake> All seemed to go well
[22:47] <Steve_2E0VET> Where will you be making the pictures available
[22:47] <daveake> I was surprised though that nobody else in Spain helped tracking
[22:47] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET, Yes
[22:47] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, i think i should have got a habduino......
[22:48] <cyclops> well daveake they told me they received signal, but didnt upload it
[22:48] <cyclops> Steve_2E0VET: Well i now do want to make my own tracker :P
[22:48] <fsphil> they need dl-fldigi next time
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[22:48] <cyclops> in theory they had it
[22:48] <cyclops> But no internet
[22:49] <fsphil> ah
[22:49] <fsphil> oops
[22:49] <daveake> oh
[22:49] <daveake> dear
[22:49] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, hope you have better look than me, mines still on the bench, OK, its got from the the breadboard on to the PCB now, which is a start
[22:49] <cyclops> Yep
[22:49] <Steve_2E0VET> *luck
[22:49] <cyclops> but Steve_2E0VET Sure youll get it to fly
[22:50] <Steve_2E0VET> cyclops, aye i'll get it to fly, but probably never see it again lol
[22:50] <cyclops> yeah hopefully I only lost signal 2-8 mins
[22:50] <cyclops> Ah and BTW backup tracker dindt worked when landed
[22:51] <daveake> That's normal
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[22:51] <cyclops> hopefully my little cousin saw the parachute between sunflowers
[22:51] <cyclops> after a 1-2km run
[22:51] <cyclops> there it was
[22:52] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, going by the tinygps example, would i need to read the data from RX (pin 0 i think), and do a println to the tinygps RX pin?
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[22:53] <daveake> There is no "tinygps RX pin". tonyGPS has no pins.
[22:53] <daveake> You read from the h/w UART (pin 0 or 1 whichever it is I forget)
[22:53] <Steve_2E0VET> davewhat i meant was the pin that tinygps defined as rx
[22:53] <Steve_2E0VET> 0
[22:53] <daveake> tinygps doesn't define any pin as Rx
[22:54] <daveake> I'm repeating myself a bit here
[22:54] <daveake> tinygps has *no concept* of serial ports
[22:54] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, #define RXPIN 3 (so pin 3 on arduino board)
[22:54] <daveake> That's not in tinygps
[22:54] <mfa298> from what I understand of it. tinygps itself doesn't care where the data comes from. You read the data from somewhere and pass it to tinygps
[22:54] <Steve_2E0VET> i appriciate its only terminology
[22:54] <daveake> No it isn't
[22:55] <Steve_2E0VET> look ata the example http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/
[22:55] <daveake> The code you're looking at is *an* application that *happens* to use pin 3 for Rx using s/w serial
[22:55] <daveake> That's one way of doing it
[22:55] <daveake> A bad way generally
[22:55] <Steve_2E0VET> correct, that is why i refered to it as the tiny gps rxpin
[22:55] <Willdude123> It could be coming from a gorilla's bottom for all tinygps cares
[22:56] <daveake> Arrgh
[22:56] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, what pin is that
[22:56] <daveake> It is the Application Rx pin
[22:56] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: in those examples the only bits which are tinygps are the gps. parts
[22:56] <Willdude123> TinyGps, it sees no pins.
[22:56] <Willdude123> It sees what you give it.
[22:57] <Willdude123> SS rxes, tinygps parses.
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[22:58] <fsphil> software serial makes babies cry, and puppies pee on their owners slippers
[22:58] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, ok how does it recieve and where does it receive from answer without using the word pin
[22:58] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, lol
[22:58] <Willdude123> It receives from pin 3
[22:58] <daveake> tinygps receives that (c) character. Which could come from anywhere. You could read NMEA data from a file. No serial port needed.
[22:58] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, you used the word pin
[22:59] <Willdude123> I know
[22:59] <Willdude123> I used it correctly. Software serial rxes from pin3
[22:59] <cyclops> pic.twitter.com/thIVqI7P3N
[22:59] <Willdude123> You need to pass that to tinygos
[22:59] <Willdude123> *tinygps
[22:59] <cyclops> https://twitter.com/AlEspacius/status/366695236610707456/photo/1
[22:59] <fsphil> oh very nice cyclops
[22:59] <Willdude123> SS isn't a good way of doing it.
[23:00] <fsphil> cyclops: do you get clouds there at all? :)
[23:00] <Willdude123> Because it's software based, it's quite bad.
[23:00] <cyclops> fsphil: not a single one
[23:00] <Steve_2E0VET> that example is nardware serial i think
[23:00] <Willdude123> Software can't measure time particularly accurately.
[23:01] <Steve_2E0VET> or it would be if the data comes from pin 0
[23:01] <fsphil> well software can, but then you can't do much else while it's measuring
[23:01] <mfa298> fsphil: presumably only over the palins (as that's where the rain supposedly falls)
[23:01] <mfa298> *plains
[23:01] <daveake> The Michael Palins?
[23:02] <fsphil> mainly
[23:02] <Willdude123> No it isn't steve
[23:02] <daveake> Around the world in 80 thunderstorms
[23:02] <Willdude123> Nor would it be if it was on pin 0
[23:02] <Willdude123> You need to write your own code.
[23:02] <Willdude123> If you plan on using hardware serial.
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[23:03] <Steve_2E0VET> I give up!!
[23:03] <Willdude123> No you don't, it isn't hard
[23:04] <Willdude123> Many people in here are willing to help you.
[23:04] <Steve_2E0VET> pin 0(RX) Pin 1 (TX) is hardware serial
[23:04] <cde> Steve_2E0VET: if you give up, the communists win
[23:04] <Willdude123> We want this to work for you, and so will help you, provided you persevere.
[23:05] <Willdude123> Yes it is, and if you address it via ss it doesn't work
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[23:05] <Steve_2E0VET> but im not accessing it through SS
[23:05] <Willdude123> The tinygps example is with ss.
[23:06] <Willdude123> (Steve_2E0VET) that example is nardware serial i think
[23:06] <Steve_2E0VET> yes SS is for tinygps
[23:06] <daveake> No it isn't
[23:06] <Willdude123> You can use it with anything.
[23:06] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, so why is software serial referenced
[23:07] <Willdude123> It's an example
[23:07] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: I'm not going to say much more now (as it's late and there's too many people trying to help. However I think you probably need to start off with something very simple (like a variation of the examples on the tinygps page) and build up from there.
[23:07] <daveake> THAT EXAMPLE uses it
[23:07] <Willdude123> Of how you might do ot.
[23:07] <daveake> The LIBRARY DOES NOT
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[23:07] <daveake> A different example (a much better one) would use h/w serial
[23:07] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, I'm going to go back to the HWS wiki as that works,
[23:07] <Willdude123> Those caps are making my eyes hurt daveake :-)
[23:08] <Willdude123> Steve_2E0VET well, I suggest you write your own code
[23:08] <Willdude123> Use tinygps though
[23:08] <Steve_2E0VET> but to use hardware serial i would need to use something like a UM232(name might be wrong) or is that wrong as well
[23:08] <Willdude123> Yes, for debug
[23:09] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, thats what i have been failing at...
[23:09] <Willdude123> So buy one.
[23:09] <Willdude123> Learn the code
[23:09] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, i have one AND i use it for debug
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[23:09] <Willdude123> So, write your own code with debug statements.
[23:10] <Steve_2E0VET> Willdude123, read back to the begining of the conversation, and see what my original question was
[23:10] <fsphil> or send messages using rtty
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[23:10] <daveake> Here's my recommendation. Get yourself an AVR programmer (several have been recommended here). Then you can program without interfering with use of the hardware serial port. Then you can connect the GPS directly to pins 0/1. Then you can use h/w serial.
[23:11] <Willdude123> I didn't realize you could do it like that.
[23:11] <Willdude123> I used an ftdi
[23:11] <daveake> If you don't wabnt to buy one, you can still use the h/w serial but you need to disconnect the GPS whilst programming.
[23:11] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, yes thats what i am doing at the moment
[23:11] <daveake> Both these options are lots lots better than using software serial.
[23:12] <Willdude123> Steve_2E0VET no, you ask again :-)
[23:12] <Willdude123> What do you actually want answering?
[23:13] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, if the GPS being on 0(RX) 1(TX) is hardware serial then i am using hardware serial
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[23:13] <mfa298> ummm, looking at the code Steve_2E0VET posted earlier I think he *is* using *hardware* serial for the gps. Software serial is being used for debug messages.
[23:13] <daveake> That's fine then
[23:13] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, CORRECT!!
[23:13] <daveake> So just read characters from serial port and send them to tinygps
[23:13] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, cheers
[23:13] <daveake> then all will be good in the world
[23:14] <Willdude123> Right
[23:15] <Willdude123> So write your own code to do what daveake just said
[23:15] <Willdude123> I really am useless at helping people.
[23:16] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, that is what i have been trying to say, without wanting to upset anyone, what i was trying to using the tinygps example which uses software serial for trx/tx (into the app), do i read from pin0 and pass to tinygps on which ever pin is states for ss
[23:16] <Steve_2E0VET> thats makes no sense at all
[23:16] <Steve_2E0VET> time for bed
[23:16] <daveake> No you just read from the standard "Serial" object then pass the resulting characters to tinygps
[23:17] <daveake> ^^ That is all
[23:17] <Steve_2E0VET> i could have actually said GPS(RX) -> Tinygps(RX)
[23:17] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, thanks for your help, i think what you are saying is what i am trying to sAY
[23:18] <daveake> Hope so
[23:18] <Willdude123> Yeah time for bed for me, I'm gonna get caught by my parents on my tablet in a bit.
[23:19] <Willdude123> Actually I'll risk it
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[23:19] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: looking through the code you posted earlier I think your poll() function is doing the right thing. But some of the other code is possibly more complex than it needs to be
[23:20] <mfa298> ah, he left
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 12 2013