highaltitude.log.20130809

[00:05] <jarod> http://www.lvnl.nl/nl/airtraffic totally wrong :P
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[02:16] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[03:33] <arko> hahaha im having too much fun with this vacuum chamber
[03:33] <arko> i have a little bit of cotton inside
[03:33] <arko> its falling so fast
[03:33] <arko> hur dur
[03:33] <arko> but still, cant help but giggle
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[04:09] <heathkid> arko, how much you want to bet a hammer would fall at the same rate? :)
[04:09] <arko> :P
[04:09] <arko> yes yes
[04:09] <arko> i cant fit a hammer in there though
[04:09] <heathkid> build a bigger vacuum chamber! :P
[04:09] <arko> i wish
[04:10] <heathkid> I've got three 2-stage pumps...
[04:10] <arko> oh nice
[04:10] <heathkid> nothing I can pull that much of a vacuum on/in though
[04:10] <heathkid> uh...and they do need rebuilt. :)
[04:11] <arko> i think my sensor is limited
[04:11] <heathkid> but the kits are pretty inexpensive compared to the pumps
[04:11] <arko> yeah
[04:11] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/pZLRqoN.png
[04:11] <heathkid> our high altitude chamber at work is good to about 100k ft.
[04:11] <arko> i think it's hitting some limit
[04:11] <arko> oh nice
[04:12] <arko> i'm ready 12kPa
[04:12] <arko> i need to get it to 1kPa
[04:12] <arko> i think the chamber is is though
[04:12] <arko> i just cant measure it
[04:12] <arko> damn sensor
[04:13] <heathkid> omega has some nice sensors
[04:13] Action: heathkid is off to bed... night...
[04:14] <arko> night dude
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[06:39] <eroomde> arko: yo
[06:39] <eroomde> so i've been having a read about active loads again
[06:39] <eroomde> and (as usual) jim williams has done something wonderful
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[06:40] <eroomde> i love his prose style
[06:40] <ibanezmatt13_> GUYS! Please help me :( http://pastie.org/8220893
[06:41] <arko> Yo eroomde
[06:41] <eroomde> in the section on tuning the response (he can get his to settle within about 600ns&) it says
[06:41] <eroomde> 'Further reducing the trim capacitance causes loop oscillation because the loops phase shift causes a significant phase lag in the feedback. Scope photos of uncontrolled 100A loop oscillation are unavailable. The event is too thrilling to document.'
[06:42] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13_: is this from some graphics you've generated in eagle from a bitmap, or something?
[06:43] <arko> Hahaha
[06:43] <ibanezmatt13_> no it's just text
[06:44] <ibanezmatt13_> part of it
[06:44] <arko> Too thrilling to document
[06:44] <arko> Thats awesome
[06:44] <arko> Cant image 100A loop oscillations look very nice
[06:45] <eroomde> there's a whole section on how to make 100A low inductance sources to test to load
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13_> if my text stroke width is too small, what in Eagle do they want me to change?
[06:45] <eroomde> he deliberately insides 20nH series inductance to demonstrate how sensitive it is, and it's amazing]
[06:45] <eroomde> gets totally destroyed
[06:45] <UpuWork> ibanezmatt13_ the ratio
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13_> what shall I change it to?
[06:45] <ibanezmatt13_> I thought we changed it
[06:45] <arko> Wow, you really need to hit the right inductance ay,
[06:46] <UpuWork> We did
[06:46] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13_: make sure you have vector fonts enabled in options, and keep the text above say 0.07 and 15% ratio
[06:46] <UpuWork> forward me the mail and the current design I'll take a look
[06:46] <arko> I dont imagine they are very forgiving circuits when dealing with high current
[06:46] <ibanezmatt13_> UpuWork: I've been told that there are two places on the board that may come out bad (both of them are under the parts)
[06:46] <ibanezmatt13_> So surely that's ok?
[06:46] <eroomde> 'The lesson is clear. High speed 100A excursions do not tolerate inductance.
[06:47] <arko> Oh yeah, I met Babs today
[06:47] <UpuWork> Who was the mail from Mitch or "Jaws" ?
[06:47] <eroomde> arko: cool
[06:47] <arko> eroomde lol
[06:47] <ibanezmatt13_> Jenny UpuWork: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yotaq3w45rhul6g/ibanezmatt13_NORB_v1.zip
[06:47] <eroomde> what you expected?
[06:47] <arko> Didnt know babs hasnt met you guys yet
[06:47] <UpuWork> Ah yeah jaws
[06:47] <eroomde> it's ok this is a private channel he won't find out
[06:47] <eroomde> no he hasn't
[06:47] <eroomde> england is bigger than you realise
[06:47] <arko> Haha
[06:47] <ibanezmatt13_> Shall I leave it then UpuWork?
[06:47] <eroomde> with all your proposed day-trips to scotland :p
[06:47] <arko> :P i hear
[06:48] <arko> Haha
[06:48] <UpuWork> chill Desmond taking a look
[06:48] <arko> Im totally doing that
[06:48] <arko> But yeah, Babs was a cool dude
[06:48] <arko> Had a great timw
[06:48] <arko> Time
[06:48] <ibanezmatt13_> cool, also, I can't get those ridiculous star shapes off (that was mentioned) UpuWork
[06:48] <UpuWork> oh wait you met up with Babs on his honeymoon ?
[06:48] <eroomde> did you see endevour?
[06:48] <arko> Haha yah
[06:48] <UpuWork> lol amazing
[06:48] <arko> eroomde hes going tomorrow
[06:49] <UpuWork> ah just roll with it ibanezmatt13_
[06:49] <eroomde> that's good nerd points if you ditch your wife on your honeymoon to see a space shuttle with a nerd you've only met on the internet
[06:49] <UpuWork> those are on the part
[06:49] <eroomde> there should be a scout badge for that kind of thing
[06:49] <UpuWork> lol
[06:49] <UpuWork> thats quite amazing
[06:49] <arko> I asked 10 times if hes sure
[06:49] <ibanezmatt13_> cool, thanks UpuWork
[06:49] <arko> eroomde LOL
[06:50] <arko> Made me all more excited to visit the uk
[06:50] <arko> Meet everyone else
[06:50] <arko> :)
[06:50] <arko> And booze!
[06:51] <eroomde> yes
[06:51] <eroomde> we can do all of those things
[06:51] <arko> \o/
[06:51] <UpuWork> indeed
[06:51] <arko> I need a new pressure gauge... blah
[06:51] <eroomde> my boss's wedding party is this weekend
[06:52] <eroomde> he has a large quantity of bright beer from the brewery next to him
[06:52] <eroomde> and a wedding cake of cheese
[06:52] <eroomde> there aren't words to describe how excited i am
[06:52] <arko> Keeps flatting out at 12kPa, i need 1kPa http://i.imgur.com/pZLRqoN.png
[06:52] <arko> Woah
[06:52] <arko> Thats epic
[06:52] <arko> Beeeeer
[06:52] <eroomde> http://www.valebrewery.co.uk/beers/beer.php?id=16
[06:52] <eroomde> this is one of my favourite ales
[06:52] <eroomde> it is gorgeous
[06:53] <eroomde> so he has a poly-pin of that and a poly-pin or something else
[06:53] <eroomde> oh funny story on vacuum pumps
[06:53] <eroomde> but& i can't tell you
[06:53] <eroomde> i'd get people into trouble
[06:54] <arko> Awww
[06:54] <arko> Teasing
[06:54] <arko> Any recommended vac sensors,
[06:55] <arko> ?
[06:56] <eroomde> we use GEM sensors all over
[06:56] <eroomde> for most rigs
[06:56] <eroomde> someone on here works for GEMS don't they?
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[07:01] <ibanezmatt13_> UpuWork: https://www.dropbox.com/s/70y5lbjtug1gumv/TopSilk.png
[07:02] <ibanezmatt13_> why are they even there?
[07:02] <eroomde> i don't know
[07:02] <eroomde> so
[07:02] <eroomde> i never ever ever ever use the default tDocu layer as silkscreen
[07:02] <eroomde> ever
[07:02] <eroomde> it's just visual noise to me
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13_> I think I used tplace
[07:03] <eroomde> i always put my silkscreen on a layer called _tsilk and use that instead
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13_> oh you're right yes
[07:03] <ibanezmatt13_> Ah it'll be fine :)
[07:04] <eroomde> if you're using a cam script you found online, just double check it's using the layer you want for the silkscreen
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[07:11] <arko> Im exhausted, night yall
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[07:34] <HixWork> good moaning
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[07:46] <fsphil> someone's having fun with their internet
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[07:57] <daveake> Scratching it never helps
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[07:59] <fsphil> itchy packets
[08:02] <HixWork> pork scratchings?
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[08:04] <mfa298> at least it's not Itchy Packets eXtreme.
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[08:15] <HixWork> morning chrisstubbsw
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[08:16] <HixWork> anyone know how to set ignore on repetetive join/quits?
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[08:16] <mfa298> I think it depends on your client
[08:16] <mfa298> irssi you can do it with /ignore
[08:18] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[08:19] <HixWork> so /ignore then a string in " "?
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[08:25] <mfa298> on irssi it's somethinkg like "/ignore nickmask JOINS PARTS"
[08:25] <mfa298> nickmask being "<nick>!<user>@<host>" and you can change parts to a *
[08:26] <mfa298> so this time you might want ghoti@~paul@scratch.it.ca
[08:26] <HixWork> blanket ignore works :)
[08:27] <HixWork> it'll do for now
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[08:30] <mfa298> you might also be able to stop all join/part messages with /ignore *!*@* JOINS PARTS
[08:36] <eroomde> /ban is also quite effective
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[08:39] <HixWork> :D
[08:44] <fsphil> or /quit :)
[08:44] <mfa298> or chill at the /disco
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[08:46] <x-f> heh, i had to try that command :]
[08:48] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[08:52] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[08:53] <x-f> hello
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[09:09] <Brew> hi guys I've reset my raspberry pi to original settings and have the NTX2 connected any suggestions on how test it? I can see the carrier so it's on :-)
[09:10] <Brew> I get -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `'/dev/ttyACM0',' returned from the line fsphil gave me serial.Serial('/dev/ttyACM0', 300, stopbits=2).write("hello world")
[09:13] <fsphil> that's because what I give you was python, not bash
[09:14] <fsphil> you'll need to run it in the python interpreter
[09:14] <fsphil> (bearing in mind that I haven't tested it :)
[09:15] <Brew> ahhh but of course my apologies I'll try it now, sorry I am new
[09:15] <fsphil> no probs
[09:19] <chrisstubbsw> hi HixWork
[09:19] <HixWork> g'day. How goes
[09:19] <Brew> I get 'serial.Serial' no such file ?
[09:20] <HixWork> import Kellogs
[09:20] <daveake> /dev/ttyACM0 is wrong (assuming this is the built-in serial port)
[09:20] <Brew> HiWork - rice crisps?
[09:20] <daveake> should be /dev/ttyAMA0
[09:23] <Brew> sudo python serial.serial /dev/ttyACM0, 300, stopbits=2.write "hello world" is the line and I get no such file returned
[09:23] <daveake> <daveake> should be /dev/ttyAMA0
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[09:24] <Brew> sorry read the typo stand by
[09:24] <fsphil> ah ha
[09:24] <chrisstubbsw> Not bad thanks HixWork trying to find details on some bearings from a company that closed down...
[09:24] <fsphil> it's ACM0 on another one of my ARM machines
[09:24] <fsphil> I'm getting them mixed up
[09:24] <daveake> :)
[09:25] <HixWork> what bearings chrisstubbsw
[09:25] <KiwiDean1> Hi guys, first time question so please bear with me, is there much seasonal change in the upper atmosphere winds? Here in South Island of NZ we have a pretty narrow strip of land to target for landings and in winter it seems it's pretty rare to get ideal conditions, just wondering if things will change for the better or worse when summer arrives?
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[09:26] <Brew> hey no bother you're all doing better than me, ok still no such file
[09:26] <fsphil> this would probably be easier in a little script file, rathen than running it on the command line
[09:27] <chrisstubbsw> Think i have found some info now :) Glacier MB1515DU They seem to have been overtaken/renamed to GGB
[09:27] <fsphil> then you can separate things out into different lines
[09:27] <daveake> yup. or stty and echo in bash would do it
[09:27] <fsphil> KiwiDean1: not sure about NZ but up here the higher altitude winds seem to reverse between summer and winter
[09:28] <fsphil> in the summer the winds are blowing west, in the winter it's east
[09:28] <fsphil> at least it has been the last few years
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[09:32] <Brew> ok I'm missing something here can anyone point me at some more info online I'm struggling with making this work?
[09:32] <KiwiDean1> Thanks fsphil, down here it's predominantly very strong from the west, with the odd day where it swings around to blowing from the south.
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[09:33] <fsphil> Brew: http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/shortintro.html
[09:34] <Brew> thanks I'll be back
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[09:40] <Willdude123> Hello
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[09:41] <Willdude123> Back in the UK now.
[09:41] <Willdude123> :(
[09:42] <Lunar_LanderU> I got a question that is probably very stupid: in the step-up I made
[09:42] <Lunar_LanderU> do I need power resistors?
[09:42] <eroomde> i got a answer which is probably very unhelpful
[09:43] <eroomde> how the hell can anyone answer that question without a circuit diagram
[09:43] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/3/d/c/ji1rd83-kuqr5f-j4i/PINSchematicV1.png the top left segment
[09:46] <daveake> You're concerned about R19?
[09:48] <eroomde> what voltage is vcc meant to be?
[09:48] <daveake> And how much current is that switcher supplying, max?
[09:49] <daveake> btw Not sure that "Vcc" is a useful designation when there are multiple supply voltages
[09:50] <eroomde> yes
[09:50] <mattbrejza> well going on I2R and I not going to be much above 0.5A a standard 1/4W resistor should be fine
[09:50] <eroomde> it's confusing you have VCC going into the supply pin, but 3v3 going out of the vcc pin on that converter
[09:50] <Willdude123> daveake: Good luck with ted bull
[09:50] <daveake> confused me too
[09:50] <Lunar_LanderU> one sec
[09:50] <eroomde> no, answer right now
[09:50] <daveake> mattbrejza Yesh that's the way I was headed with my questioning :)
[09:51] <Lunar_LanderU> 3.3V goes in 9V goes out and I am concerned about all resistors around it
[09:51] <Lunar_LanderU> max. output current 100 mA
[09:51] <mattbrejza> however switching current is usually higher than output current
[09:51] <daveake> 100mA? Find something else to worry about :)
[09:51] <mattbrejza> but not by much
[09:51] <eroomde> ok
[09:51] <eroomde> so VCC is 9V?
[09:51] <Lunar_LanderU> no 3.3V
[09:51] <Lunar_LanderU> sorry
[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU> 9V
[09:52] <daveake> erm
[09:52] <HixWork> is there such a thing as a constant current step up convertor?
[09:52] <eroomde> write down in one sentence
[09:52] <eroomde> VCC = x
[09:52] <Lunar_LanderU> VCC = 9V
[09:52] <eroomde> cool
[09:52] <eroomde> ok
[09:52] <eroomde> HixWork, well, constant current implies variable voltage
[09:52] <eroomde> so step-up vs step-down is kinda academic
[09:52] <daveake> and the max current @ 9V is 100mA?
[09:53] <mattbrejza> btw Lunar_LanderU you might be better off getting a small low capacity high voltage battery if its just to bias a photodiode
[09:53] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: yes
[09:53] <HixWork> hmm eroomde is there a way I can get 37.4V @700mA from a 11.1V 3S LiPo?
[09:53] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: yea
[09:53] <eroomde> yes
[09:53] <Lunar_LanderU> how high a voltage?
[09:54] <mattbrejza> you can get 12V batteries that are smaller than a AAA
[09:54] <chrisstubbsw> Wow 3 pin resonators, not seen those since I last did PIC
[09:54] <eroomde> HixWork, you just have to make a 37.4V stepup and load it correctly
[09:54] <Lunar_LanderU> chrisstubbsw: well yea I selected that because the mightyohm geiger counter has that, in fact the attiny circuit is almost the same as it
[09:54] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: ah these ones, the A23
[09:55] <HixWork> ok, something to go on. I'll read into loading stepups eroomde
[09:55] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU, another convention for schematics is to have supply arrows like vcc pointing down
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
[09:55] <eroomde> HixWork, what's the specific application?
[09:55] <mattbrejza> and i dont think the LM311 needs to be connected to the 9V supply
[09:55] <HixWork> a big-ass LED
[09:55] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU, so for axample, that chip is producing VCC, so really the VCC arrow should point down
[09:55] <chrisstubbsw> daveake: shame you cancelled this weekend, Chelmsford would have been a good recovery spot :)
[09:55] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[09:55] <eroomde> also left-to-right is the convention for signal flow
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: I got the 9V for the LM311 from here http://www.elektronik-labor.de/Projekte/0411Alpha9.jpg
[09:56] <daveake> chrisstubbsw Not for a landing in Basildon :p
[09:56] <eroomde> so you really want 3v3 coming in from the left and VCC coming out of the right
[09:56] <mattbrejza> yea but i guess thats just because the whole circit is powered by 9V so its easier
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, understood
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah that might be
[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> I am sorry that I have to interrupt
[09:57] <mattbrejza> make the photodiode amp part, use a scope to see what sort of output you get
[09:57] <Lunar_LanderU> I really have to perform a quick EPR experiment before my group heads to lunch
[09:57] <Lunar_LanderU> OK, will try that
[09:57] <mattbrejza> i cant see a 3.3V based comparitor bit not working
[09:57] <Lunar_LanderU> OK and 9V just at the diode then
[09:57] <mattbrejza> and then you use a small 12V battery that has a current drain of uA max
[09:57] <Lunar_LanderU> and a lin-reg?
[09:57] <mattbrejza> *is need to give
[09:57] <Lunar_LanderU> or the 12V directly
[09:58] <mattbrejza> na just run at 12V
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks eroomde and mattbrejza
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you in a bit
[09:58] Action: daveake shrugs
[09:58] <daveake> :)
[09:58] <mattbrejza> unless you really wanted to do a swtich mode psu...
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> and thanks chrisstubbsw and daveake
[09:58] <mattbrejza> but switch mode and sensitve circiuts couldnt mix less well
[09:58] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: ah no, I had a wrong idea
[09:59] <Lunar_LanderU> I wanted to be able to run it from the balloon power and I thought from the diagram that all of it needs to be 9V
[09:59] <mattbrejza> ive seen worse dw :P
[09:59] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[09:59] <Lunar_LanderU> ok be back later
[10:01] <chrisstubbsw> daveake: yeah you would have to make sure you were well ahead of the chavs
[10:01] <chrisstubbsw> HixWork: are you still working in baz?
[10:02] <HixWork> chrisstubbsw Veeeeeegas baaaaaby. No. :)
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[10:03] <Willdude123> ping UpuWork
[10:04] <UpuWork> hi
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[10:04] <Willdude123> Have you sent the board?
[10:04] <UpuWork> yes
[10:04] <HixWork> chrisstubbsw I'm @ Hemel Hempstead now. right in the buncefield blast-path
[10:04] <Willdude123> Thanks/
[10:04] <UpuWork> welcome
[10:05] <eroomde> it says that on the trains station sign as you pull in
[10:05] <Willdude123> I'm back in blighty now.
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[10:05] <HixWork> what Hemel eroomde ?
[10:05] <eroomde> yes
[10:05] <HixWork> ha, what is the message?
[10:06] <eroomde> "Welcome to Hemel Hempstead. Right in the Buncefield blast-path"
[10:06] <HixWork> heh, Assume it's not a network rail sign :)
[10:07] <mattbrejza> HixWork: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/power-management/led-lighting-products.page
[10:07] <mattbrejza> select boost topology
[10:09] <HixWork> cheers mattbrejza
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[10:10] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[10:11] <Willdude123> Morning
[10:12] <ibanezmatt13> Hey Willdude123: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjl2kvs44zx4ktn/NORB_v1.png
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[10:13] <Willdude123> I was on a thomson flight yesterday. The whole cabin was pretty much freezing
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> that's not good
[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> 767, 757?
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: http://uk.farnell.com/1605577 Is this the correct package for my temp sensor. It says in Eagle, MCP9700 sot23-3
[10:14] <Willdude123> I don't remember.
[10:14] <Willdude123> I was too tired. :)
[10:15] <Willdude123> I think it was deliberate.
[10:15] <Willdude123> So then when people are back in britain it doesn't feel so bad.
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> Doubt it to be honest, probably just the A/C on the plane was knackered
[10:15] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah
[10:16] <craag> It usually is, makes everyone use the blankets and go to sleep.
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[10:16] <craag> THey do it on almost every longhaul
[10:16] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't know that was standard for longhaul. Interesting.
[10:17] <Willdude123> Argh
[10:17] <Willdude123> My Irssi screen session is screwed.
[10:17] <Willdude123> It doesn't wrap lines now.
[10:18] <Willdude123> And I can't resize the window.
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[10:23] <Willdude123> I would test my logic analyzer, but I have nothing to test it with.
[10:23] <Brace> ibanezmatt13: they also mess with the O2 mix as well
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> seriously?
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> So they lower the O2 to make you sleep??
[10:24] <Brace> yeah, you can't breathe the air at 40,000 ft
[10:24] <Willdude123> Why do they want you to sleep so much?
[10:24] <ibanezmatt13> That's interesting because I remember being at FL420 on a 747 and it felt wierd breathing
[10:25] <Brace> so the environment systems will make the air breathable for you
[10:25] <craag> Willdude123: Less work for them, you'll eat and drink less. Almost makes the cabin nice and quiet for anyone still awake if most people are asleep
[10:26] <Brace> well it is breathable, but has less oxygen
[10:26] <Brace> they don't induce hypoxia (cause that would kill folk)
[10:26] <Brace> but it's a mix of external air and recycled air
[10:26] <Willdude123> Sorry can't read your message craag, my irssi screen setup has messed up.
[10:27] <Brace> it's preset apparently, but it's equivalent to being about 2000m high, about 6-8,000ft
[10:27] <Brace> and most folk will notice some kind of altitude effect at that point
[10:28] <Brace> depending a bit on the plane and the altitude they're flying at
[10:29] <Brace> also like most air-conned air, it's really dry, which isn't pleasant either
[10:30] <HixWork> quite a bit of it is to do with pressure cycling the airframe, if they reduce the pressure the airframe is going to be in service for a longer time
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Do you know where I can find a 6 pin ICSP header for my PCB?
[10:31] <HixWork> erm, copy the one off my board, its in sparkfun library iirc
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> Nah, I mean to purchase :)
[10:31] <chrisstubbsw> ibanezmatt13: 2 rows of 0.1" header
[10:31] <UpuWork> that is a SOT23 ibanezmatt13
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> correct?
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> Is that the one I need?
[10:32] <HixWork> oh, sorry ibanezmatt13 just use std 0.1" header strip 2 off
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> Every time I try to split headers, they either don't budge or disintegrate
[10:34] <chrisstubbsw> odd, I just split mine clean by hand
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> It may just be the type I have
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[10:34] <chrisstubbsw> I have cheapo ebay ones
[10:35] <ibanezmatt13> So I need a two row header which I can split into three chunks (2x3) ?
[10:35] <chrisstubbsw> The female ones do make a bit of a mess though if you try to cut those down
[10:35] <ibanezmatt13> that might be the ones I was thinking about chrisstubbsw
[10:36] <HixWork> hold em with side cutters in the necked section and grab the 3 bits you want with pliers, easy. no pinging off around the room either
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[10:36] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 you can use single row, just 2 lots
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> will Farnell sell these?
[10:36] <chrisstubbsw> yeah, or eaby
[10:37] <chrisstubbsw> they are very cheap
[10:37] <chrisstubbsw> *ebay
[10:37] <HixWork> bitsbox.co.uk
[10:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'm getting a load of ICs from Farnell so if they're cheap I'll get them from there. It can't be much
[10:37] <mfa298> rs/farnell will sell the exact headers you want (or get longer singlerow ones and split)
[10:37] <chrisstubbsw> I put the 2 rows of header into the socket on the programmer to hold them nice and straight on the board when I solder them too
[10:37] <mfa298> you'll probably have to buy a pack of 10
[10:37] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 http://bitsbox.co.uk/connectors/header_con.html
[10:38] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: I tried to find a standard 6 pin header with Farnell and couldn't find one, probably just me
[10:38] <ibanezmatt13> 8p
[10:38] <ibanezmatt13> not bad HixWork
[10:38] <HixWork> they're a pretty good company for wee bits and bobs
[10:39] <HixWork> and they don't take the piss on postage like most
[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll get some bits from there, thanks
[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> What about 0603 caps and resistors?
[10:40] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: this looks like what you need http://cpc.farnell.com/harwin/m20-9980345/header-2row-3way/dp/CN14380
[10:40] <mfa298> assuming it's through hole on your pcb
[10:40] <ibanezmatt13> yep mfa298, so I need to split those in half?
[10:41] <ibanezmatt13> wait, there's 10 pins there
[10:41] <mfa298> I suspect the picture is a generic one. Read the description
[10:41] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[10:41] <chrisstubbsw> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/9-arduino-compatible-starter-kit-anyone-can-learn-electronics
[10:41] <ibanezmatt13> yeah thats it, thank you very much
[10:41] <chrisstubbsw> quite a good price for people starting out
[10:42] <ibanezmatt13> looks good chrisstubbsw, i got loads of stuff like that with the pi. they're good kits
[10:45] <ibanezmatt13> brb, dinner
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[10:45] <HixWork> thanks for the link to TI pagges mattbrejza there's a stack of pdf papers going right into what I was trying to lear.
[10:46] <mattbrejza> np :)
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad6641/products/product.html - insane ADC. Would be more awesome if it wasn't $150
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> Samples at 500MHz - 12 bit - has on-chip 16K buffer, and you can readout over SPI
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> Would be great for stuff like LIDAR/RADAR
[10:49] <mattbrejza> can also do aliasing sampling
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[10:50] <SpeedEvil> yup
[10:50] <mattbrejza> must nom power
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, that 6 pin header has 2.54 spacing. I can't find one with 0.1
[10:50] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: check your units
[10:50] <mfa298> standard is .1" which is 2.54mm
[10:51] <mattbrejza> the ADC/DAC on the front of fibre transcievers are also nuts
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, I thought they were both in mm
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[10:54] <HixWork> imperials mils is the most annoying measurement I've ever come across
[10:54] <ibanezmatt13> apart from mph, agreed
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> HixWork: photometry
[10:55] <HixWork> mph is good
[10:55] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: When we do the soldering, shall I get the 0603 capacitors and resistors?
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> Photometry is a ball-ache of interconnected annoying units.
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> Nits lumens candella phots, lux, ...
[10:55] <mattbrejza> anyone got a neat way of making a digital bidirectional bus from just discrete parts?
[10:56] <mattbrejza> i2c to be specific
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> And of course the equivalent watt-based units and the fun conversions
[10:56] <bertrik> mattbrejza: what's the problem, signal levels?
[10:56] <mattbrejza> i got a shitty vga switch, and oc the DDC signals arnt connected
[10:56] <HixWork> sounds like anything light based SpeedEvil especially when it comes to selling torches etc
[10:57] <mattbrejza> so levels arnt an issue
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> It's actually nontrivial to do nice light measurements. Unless you have really expensive units.
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> expensive meters
[10:58] <HixWork> I like the camera flash system of guide number. Does what it says on the tin
[10:59] <mattbrejza> oh i ment to add the word 'switch' or 'mux' to that
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[11:00] <mattbrejza> * anyone got a neat way of making a digital bidirectional *mux* from just dicrete parts? (fixed)
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: Take two FETs, an isolated power supply, hook them back-back - bilateral switch
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[11:01] <mattbrejza> yea i did consider that, would need a charge pump to make a higher Vcc
[11:01] <Willdude123> ping UpuWork
[11:01] <mattbrejza> but then i have some of those ICs lying around
[11:01] <Willdude123> Got the gps
[11:02] <mattbrejza> vga has 5V which is handy for this
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[11:04] <mattbrejza> could just get a 10p analgoue switch from farnell
[11:04] <Willdude123> What kind of female header would I need to solder to the GPS breakout?
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[11:09] <mattbrejza> oh derp, a charge pump is only needed when you have a single FET
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> You're assuming FETs are bidirectional - they're not usually.
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> For MOSFETs
[11:11] <mattbrejza> you mean without that diode they usually include?
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:12] <mattbrejza> well im fairly sure i dont have any n/p FETs lying around, so might as well get a 10p switch from farnell instead
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[11:15] <ibanezmatt13> Is it true they don't do 32K resistors at farnell?
[11:15] <mattbrejza> no
[11:16] <mattbrejza> i dunno why youd want 32K
[11:16] <ibanezmatt13> On the drop down menu, they have every possible resistance but it jumps from 31k to 32.4k
[11:16] <mattbrejza> meh 32.4 is close enough
[11:16] <ibanezmatt13> well, in the schematic I have that's the resistor value I used for the voltage divider for the NTX2. I'm not sure why
[11:16] <mattbrejza> use 33K
[11:17] <ibanezmatt13> so the 33k will work ok with my two 4k7s for the NTX2?
[11:18] <mattbrejza> yea
[11:18] <mattbrejza> that resistor should have been 33K anyway
[11:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, same size so should be ok, thanks
[11:18] <cde> but why
[11:18] <mattbrejza> because science!
[11:19] <cde> ooh
[11:19] <ibanezmatt13> I suppose I could calculate the shift anyway, Will a 1000 ohm difference not matter?
[11:20] <mattbrejza> well you can calculate the difference in shift if you want
[11:20] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that later :)
[11:21] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: reasoning behind resistor value avaliability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor#Preferred_values
[11:21] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[11:24] <Willdude123> Ack
[11:24] <mattbrejza> nack
[11:24] <Willdude123> 8 pin headers cost more to ship than they cost.
[11:28] <mattbrejza> what do you actually want to do?
[11:28] <mattbrejza> connect the gps to your BB?
[11:29] <Willdude123> Yeah
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[11:30] <Willdude123> I could solder jumper wires to it but that's a bit temperamental.
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[11:32] <mattbrejza> so you just want those pins seperated by a bit of plastic?
[11:32] <mfa298> you can get M-F dupont wires which might do what you need. Or you can use F-F dupont wires with jumper wires for breadboard.
[11:32] <mattbrejza> and only 4?
[11:34] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: 33k and two 4k7 gives a voltage shift of 0.22v and it is recomended that I have 0.25v. Is this ok or do I need to change the 33k?
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[11:35] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[11:35] <UpuWork> pung
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> Hey UpuWork. For a 3v3 level on TX with two 4k7 resistors, what value can the other resistor be to get 0.25v shift?
[11:36] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: itll be fine
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> I suppose it will be fine actually
[11:36] <mattbrejza> itll change with temperature anyway
[11:36] <ibanezmatt13> 0.22v shift
[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[11:38] <ibanezmatt13> Is there a formula for translating voltage shift into freq shift. Looking at the graph and estimating isn't my cup of tea :)
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[11:38] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: one more short question
[11:38] <Lunar_LanderU> do you still have my circuit diagram?
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[11:46] <mattbrejza> http://s.gullipics.com/image/3/d/c/ji1rd83-kuqr5f-j4i/PINSchematicV1.png ?
[11:46] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[11:46] <Lunar_LanderU> you said I should use a 12 V battery for biasing the Photodiode
[11:47] <UpuWork> there is forumula on the wiki ibanezmatt13
[11:47] <Lunar_LanderU> shall I use 12V on all of the lower left part of the circuit and then 3.3V at the part with the LM311?
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, I'll take a look
[11:48] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I don't get the last line of the calculation: http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[11:48] <mattbrejza> erm not sure Lunar_LanderU, at a guess only R1 and R3 need connecting to 12V
[11:48] <mattbrejza> maybe R4
[11:48] <Lunar_LanderU> and the transistors?
[11:48] <mattbrejza> or maybe just R1
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: What is 2000hz/v and how does that become 1056hz shift?
[11:49] <mattbrejza> well the transistors connect thru those resistors
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> nevermind UpuWork
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> I get it
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> Dead easy
[11:49] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[11:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:50] <Lunar_LanderU> one momnt
[11:50] <Lunar_LanderU> moment
[11:50] <ibanezmatt13> Is 2000hz per volt standard for the ntx2?
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: you were correct, 0.22v = 440 shift.
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13> Which is good :)
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[11:51] <mattbrejza> i know im correct, i did the formula on that page
[11:51] <mattbrejza> :P
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13> :P didn't know
[11:51] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[11:52] <Lunar_LanderU> like this? http://s.gullipics.com/image/n/o/7/ji1rd83-kuqx3e-xhig/PINSchematicV1Voltage.png
[11:53] <Willdude123> UpuWork got the GPS, need to buy some headers now.
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[11:54] <HixWork> Willdude123 http://bitsbox.co.uk/connectors/header_con.html
[11:54] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: yea should be good
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
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[12:00] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Do you know where I can get the ABM3 HC49 8MHZ crystal that's in your library. They have something that looks right on Farnell but for the package it says 5x3.2mm instead of HC49. Is that the correct one?
[12:03] <UpuWork> that part I made takes either the HC49 or the ABM3 crystal
[12:03] <UpuWork> you can get either from Farnell, HC49 is easier to solder
[12:03] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: http://uk.farnell.com/2101329 ?
[12:04] <UpuWork> yes
[12:04] <UpuWork> but HC49's are easier
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try and find one
[12:04] <UpuWork> typ ehc49 8mhz
[12:04] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/OkAVeU i think is correct
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[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Will that one definitely fit?
[12:07] <HixWork> what were your pad specs? 2x5mm? It's HC49 so i believe it to be correct. look at the datasheet for it
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
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[12:07] <UpuWork> don't use that crystal
[12:08] <UpuWork> note min temp
[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, it has 4 pins
[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> I entered ehc49 8mhz and couldn't get specific one.
[12:11] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: That is: http://uk.farnell.com/1640891 ?
[12:12] <UpuWork> yeah that works
[12:12] <UpuWork> those are expensive
[12:13] <UpuWork> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=0+110029522+110134631&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=HC49%2FUS+8Mhz&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=412343&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&divisionLocale=en_UK&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=0&mm=1000075||,1002729||,&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidde
[12:13] <UpuWork> n=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D0%26Ntk%3Dgensearch%26Ntt%3DHC49%252FUS%2B8Mhz%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26suggestions%3Dfalse%26ref%3Dglobalsearch%26_requestid%3D412343%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_UK%26divisionLocale%3Den_UK%26catalogId%3D%26skipManufacturer%3Dfalse%26skipParametricAttributeId%3
[12:13] <UpuWork> D%26prevNValues%3D0
[12:13] <UpuWork> ffs
[12:13] <UpuWork> nice url..
[12:13] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> So that one I linked you to earlier UpuWork is on that hige URL
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> That ok?
[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'll get that one
[12:16] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/wt7KP1 rate to -40
[12:16] <HixWork> oh wow. thats a looong URl UpuWork is it welsh :)
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[12:17] <ibanezmatt13> Only thing I can't find now for my PCB is the JST connector for the power
[12:17] <ibanezmatt13> JST-2-PTH-NS
[12:18] <ibanezmatt13> I've just realised, there's a part of Eagle where you can search for parts :P
[12:22] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Final component, those JST PTH 2 pin sockets that are on the Pi n Chips, do you get those from Farnell. I think they're what I need
[12:22] <Willdude123> UpuWork: Where can I get headers to solder to my GPS module?
[12:23] <HixWork> Willdude123 i posted you as link when you asked
[12:24] <Ugi> Has anyone here tried adjusting the freq of an NTX2 as described here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules:ntx2
[12:24] <Ugi> it seems to work fine but I wonder whether it affects the temp stability
[12:25] <Ugi> At present my 434.075 is running at .065 with no apparent issues
[12:27] <x-f> daveake did this on the transeuropean PIE flight with two .075 transmitters shifted in opposite directions, they performed very well
[12:27] <Ugi> great
[12:27] <Ugi> At .065 it looks far enough not to interfere with a standard .075
[12:28] <Ugi> that's 10 KHz distance with only around 0.5KHz shift each
[12:29] <Willdude123> HixWork: I didn't see that sorry
[12:29] <HixWork> NPS
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I can't seem to find a certain type of JST connector that I need to buy. (M02-JST-PTH)
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> Even on Ebay :/
[12:31] <HixWork> why not buy something you can gind that fits. it is 0.1" pitch isnt it?
[12:31] <HixWork> *find
[12:32] <Willdude123> HixWork: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/stackable-header-p-348.html
[12:32] <ibanezmatt13> I assume so
[12:32] <Willdude123> That OK?
[12:32] <HixWork> when doing board, design it around bits you can get.
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[12:33] <mattbrejza> http://tinyurl.com/l9sxj2p ibanezmatt13
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, I need to learn how to operate Farnell
[12:33] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks mattbrejza
[12:34] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 arent they the ones here http://bitsbox.co.uk/connectors/header_con.html
[12:34] <AdamDynamic> Does anyone know where (or if it's possible) I can buy a complete microcontroller-based GPS tracker? I appreciate it isn't really in 'the spirit of UKHAS' etc...
[12:34] <Willdude123> Habduino
[12:34] <mattbrejza> potentially, just check the pitch on the pcb and the conector you choose are the same
[12:34] Action: Willdude123 points to UpuWork
[12:35] <ibanezmatt13> They're the ones HixWork. I was forcing myself to use Farnell :P
[12:35] <HixWork> ok
[12:35] <Willdude123> Man I really want to build a quadcopter.
[12:35] <HixWork> AdamDynamic www.habduino.org
[12:35] <AdamDynamic> Does anyone know when the Habduino project will be start to ship products? Or how much one might cost?
[12:36] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: there isn't a 0.1" version of those connectors on Farnells website strangely
[12:37] <AdamDynamic> I'd love to build one myself, the more I read about the process the more time I'm concerned it will take (and making GPS trackers isn't the reason why I wanted to launch a space balloon :)
[12:37] <x-f> near-space* :)
[12:37] <x-f> AdamDynamic, one Habduino will fly Saturday or Sunday, so it is ready and shipping, contact the author for more info and pricing
[12:38] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I don't think any of these connectors some with 0.1" pin spacing. Both Farnell and bitsbox don't have 2.54mm
[12:38] <AdamDynamic> Will do, thanks a lot for the help!
[12:38] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 2.54mm == 0.1"
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: some = come, sorry
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[12:39] <x-f> besides, it's really not that hard to build the tracker yourself, i didn't know anything about electronics and microcontrollers etc, but i managed to do it, there is a lots of information on the wiki, and this chatroom is very helpfull too
[12:39] <ibanezmatt13> there aren't any 0.1" (2.54mm) that I can see
[12:39] <HixWork> what is the spacing in eagle?
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> It says on the description for the part, "for use with 0.1"
[12:40] <HixWork> so you need a 2 X 0.1" connector then?
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> "standard 2 pin, 0.1" header"
[12:40] <ibanezmatt13> yet I can't seem to find any of that arrangment
[12:41] <HixWork> what library was the part in? why did you choose it? any specific reason?
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> Sparkfun connectors
[12:42] <ibanezmatt13> No idea why I chose it :P It was used on Stratodean Three's board
[12:43] <ibanezmatt13> I suppose I could ask Mark where he got his
[12:44] <HixWork> Sparkfun maybe?
[12:44] <HixWork> wild guess :)
[12:44] <ibanezmatt13> Already checked :/
[12:45] <HixWork> got a link to the brd and sch?
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[12:45] <HixWork> future ref, find a component to buy then add it to board ;p
[12:45] <ibanezmatt13> good idea, I'll get you a link now
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gi13wyt07wxiwo6/eY5OaIlbNU
[12:46] <AdamDynamic> It looks do-able, I'm just concerned that it will consume a lot of time and money and I'll end up with something less good than if I bought it from someone who knows more about it than I do. Like I said, appreciate it's not the spirit of high-altitude ballooning, I need to be pragmatic though.
[12:46] <eroomde> let me guess
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: sorry, no .sch in there
[12:46] <eroomde> i want to buy a flight computer off the shelf
[12:47] <cde> but why
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9xjfrbrifm434ga/NORB_v1.sch
[12:47] <HixWork> ta
[12:47] <eroomde> cde, why what?
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0h7q124qpry5x0/NORB_v1.brd
[12:47] <cde> do you want to buy a flight computer off the shelf
[12:47] <eroomde> i don't
[12:48] <x-f> he's trolling :)
[12:48] <eroomde> i was guessing at the context of the message i just saw, having just joined the room
[12:48] <cde> remember to tag you line with #troll then
[12:48] <cde> j/k ;) #troll
[12:49] <eroomde> i really don't want to buy an off the shelf flight computer, personally
[12:50] <eroomde> the 'i need to be pragmatic though' is an especially good euphemism for 'cba'
[12:51] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 isn't it this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9749 if you look at the comments below it, if so bitsbox have them as linked earlier
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'll take a look HixWork
[12:51] <HixWork> I need to be pragmatic with the design of this module housing this afternoon eroomde
[12:51] <eroomde> pragmatic, as if a mad gunman has given you 72 hours to launch a hab or else he'll shoot you, so you're being pragmatic by deciding to use an off the shelf flight computer
[12:52] <HixWork> can you be pragmatic with regards to NOTAMS?
[12:52] <eroomde> otherwise i can't see what there is to be gained by putting some off the shelf stuff in a box, attaching it to a balloon and letting go
[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: it says 2mm spacing
[12:52] <HixWork> altitude?
[12:52] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 what says that?
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> description of the product on their website
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> that's the PH series
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> In the library it says PTH
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[12:54] <eroomde> well that's hime convinced, hopefully
[12:54] Action: x-f had to open the urbandictionary.com to look up "cba".
[12:54] <mattbrejza> only exception being school launches i think
[12:54] <eroomde> yes, i was about to qualify it with that
[12:54] <eroomde> for teachers, it's pragmatic
[12:55] <eroomde> they have enough on their plates already
[12:55] <eroomde> if you just want to take yet-f*king-more pictures of black sky on the other hand
[12:56] <eroomde> maybe you only feel this way after your 50th GB of sd card full of images. i dunno.
[12:56] <eroomde> or maybe just I feel this way
[12:56] <x-f> it is different when you look at the pictures from your own project
[12:57] <mattbrejza> i think the ground photos are the most interesting now
[12:57] <eroomde> yes same
[12:57] <mattbrejza> but cloud always seems to get in the way ¬.¬
[12:57] <eroomde> x-f, not so much anymore, i promise!
[12:58] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: They've for screw terminals that fit but not JST sockets
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> they've got*
[12:59] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: what type of connector do you actually want, after all you have space
[13:00] <mattbrejza> JST are more compact, and quite annoying to make a cable+plug for
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[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> Well, anything that'll fit and be appropriate tbh
[13:00] <HixWork> so, like i said, just source a 0.1" 2 pin connector you can actually purchase and use that. Why does it HAVE to be JST?
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> it doesn't I suppose. I was getting confused with what I'd done in Eagle
[13:00] <mattbrejza> you might be best off with a small screw terminal block
[13:00] <HixWork> anything 0.1" 2.54mm wil retty much
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll have a look around. Thanks
[13:01] <eroomde> i'd go for terminal block if you don't have the appropriate crimp tool for whatever crimp connectors you end up choosing
[13:01] <eroomde> life is too short to bodge crimps
[13:01] <eroomde> and the consequences too dire
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[13:02] <ibanezmatt13> the screw ones eroomde ?
[13:02] <Steve_2E0VET> any arduino experts here today
[13:02] <eroomde> yes
[13:02] <mattbrejza> last time i tried to crimp something without the tool a cut the pin in half (a bnc connector)
[13:02] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET, best to just ask, if it's a techy question
[13:02] <mattbrejza> was fixed with soldering
[13:02] <Steve_2E0VET> are pins 0/1 default serial tx/rx
[13:03] <eroomde> mattbrejza, i just don't do it now
[13:03] <eroomde> they almost always fail
[13:03] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET, which arduino?
[13:03] <mattbrejza> you just buy the cable made up then?
[13:03] <Steve_2E0VET> uno
[13:04] <eroomde> mattbrejza, no, i get the crimp tool
[13:05] <HixWork> Steve_2E0VET http://goo.gl/CE2CAX
[13:05] <eroomde> if i don't have the right crimp tool, i don;t use the crimps. simples
[13:05] <HixWork> Si
[13:05] <mattbrejza> oh right
[13:05] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET, i beleive so then, as it's printed on the silkscreen
[13:06] <eroomde> mattbrejza, it's sort of like not drink driving
[13:06] <eroomde> if you just make it a flat personal rule to not drink and drive, you get used to it
[13:07] <eroomde> even if it can be inconvenient sometimes
[13:07] <mattbrejza> yea but not worth it for hte occasional bnc
[13:07] <eroomde> this is precisely where we differ ^
[13:07] <eroomde> precisely
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[13:07] <eroomde> as i disagree in an absolute way with that sentiment
[13:07] <mattbrejza> im not buying the tool :P
[13:08] <Steve_2E0VET> eroomde, any idea how i chnage them to different pins. I have a script that has byteGPS=Serial.read(); but nothings read. however Softwareserial.h is not defined, so i am wondering if you use pin 0/1 do you not need to define SoftwareSerial
[13:08] <eroomde> sometimes when i'm alone at night, i go and touch my huber and schuner crimp tool
[13:08] <eroomde> that does BNCs among other things
[13:08] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I suspect this will do the trick? http://proto-pic.co.uk/screw-terminals-2-54mm-pitch-2-pin/
[13:08] <mfa298> if it's BNC's on rg58 then you can get the crimp tools pretty cheaply and it's so much easier crimping than soldering.
[13:08] <eroomde> Steve_2E0VET, for software serial, you can use any of the pins
[13:08] <mattbrejza> they didnt even have one to borrow in the labs :(
[13:09] <eroomde> the Tx Rx pins show which pins connect to the hardware uart on the atmega
[13:09] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET 0/1 on the Uno are the hardware serial pins. You can't move the h/w uart to any other pins. You can however use any pins for s/w serial.
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[13:09] <eroomde> i.e. the atmega chip has a dedicated peripheral, like a pci card in a PC, for talking serially
[13:10] <eroomde> but softserial (for quite a performance hit) will allow other pins to do serial comms
[13:10] <eroomde> when they're just generic pins, rather than attached to a dedicated serial physical peripheral
[13:11] <HixWork> speaking of which, if the GPS and an IMU both need to speak over serial does that mean a stabilotron would need a 644 with 2 HW UARTs>
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[13:11] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, might just try 0/1 i am new to this so probably dont want to over complicate things
[13:11] <eroomde> HixWork, yup
[13:11] <eroomde> most of the big atmegas have 4 UARTS anyway
[13:11] <eroomde> so i'd just go with that
[13:11] <eroomde> having a uart dedicated for debugging is so useful
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[13:11] <eroomde> i recommend it enormously
[13:11] <HixWork> my 128megabadboyjobbieone has 7
[13:11] <HixWork> but I also blagged some 644s
[13:11] <mattbrejza> pfft spi...
[13:12] <mattbrejza> why would you ever need 7
[13:12] <eroomde> i put an ftdi compatible header on most things now, just incase
[13:12] <eroomde> which is upsetting because the pinout is outrageously shit and illogical
[13:12] <eroomde> but it's worth it for the convenience
[13:13] <mattbrejza> tbh you should be able to debug via the programming interface rather than having a seperate connection
[13:13] <eroomde> sure, but it's useful for interation in general
[13:13] <eroomde> eg logging
[13:13] <mattbrejza> i guess
[13:14] <eroomde> but you've basically just described jtag, which i what i'd normally use where the chip has it
[13:14] <HixWork> eroomde I'm getting the feeling that AdamDynamic wasn't exactly enamoured with your suggestions :D
[13:15] <mattbrejza> well if he wants to do it, therse nothing stopping im asking up u for a habdunio
[13:15] <eroomde> i'm getting the feeling that i don't care, he's getting them anyway
[13:15] <HixWork> hahaaa
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[13:16] <eroomde> i think if i really cared i'd probably go a bit more softly softly
[13:16] <HixWork> so FDTI is sued for debugging via softwareSerial?
[13:16] <eroomde> yeah
[13:16] <HixWork> or used
[13:16] <eroomde> well actually, i don't understand the q
[13:17] <HixWork> you can use a softwareSerial port do debug if you have the HW UART speaking to UBX
[13:17] <HixWork> via FTDI
[13:17] <eroomde> i soldered up this batch of boards for a customer yesterday, the left-most row is for an ftdi header, should one ever be needed. it almost certainly won't, but it's useful to have when bringing up a new design
[13:17] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/69zvk230r3rtu03/2013-08-08%2017.34.27.jpg
[13:17] <eroomde> ah right yes, you could just software-serial tx to the ftdi, for sure
[13:19] <HixWork> nice. that'll help with IMU based cock-ups.
[13:19] <mattbrejza> hmm a GPS based current measuring thing
[13:20] <HixWork> is the helikite thing something you are involved with eroomde /
[13:20] <HixWork> ?
[13:20] <eroomde> we make this thing for them
[13:20] <mattbrejza> soldered manually?
[13:21] <eroomde> hell no
[13:21] <eroomde> i'm not a mug
[13:22] <mattbrejza> was gonna say
[13:22] <mattbrejza> by manual i ment paste + oven
[13:22] <mattbrejza> but still
[13:23] <eroomde> oh yes, it was manual in that respect
[13:23] <eroomde> stencil, paste, oven
[13:23] <eroomde> took about 3 hours
[13:24] <eroomde> i make up little shits like this on card (there are about 10 of them for this design) so i can quickly pick and place
[13:24] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4v0msx3mtf9h6eg/2013-08-08%2014.39.17.jpg
[13:24] <mattbrejza> pretty good going
[13:24] <eroomde> little sheets*
[13:24] <eroomde> colour coded on the diagram to match the title
[13:25] <mattbrejza> yea half the time can be finding the component bag, seeing where they need to go etc
[13:25] <mattbrejza> then forgetting one and having to find the bag again
[13:25] <HixWork> ping iban
[13:25] <HixWork> oh not here
[13:26] <HixWork> http://i.imgur.com/jIe7Wok.png [just a note for when he re-appears]
[13:27] <HixWork> as is this http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/2pin-screw-terminal-01in
[13:33] <Ugi> Guys - you were discussing the chip antennae earlier
[13:33] <Ugi> I have the HABsupplies GPS iwth chip antenna
[13:33] <Ugi> do you think it will matter if the GPS breakout is positioned over my mcu board?
[13:34] <Ugi> or should I point it out the other side?
[13:38] <eroomde> depends on the breakout
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[13:38] <eroomde> but it's best to keep it in the quietest place you keen, everything else being equal
[13:39] <Ugi> breakout is this: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[13:40] <eroomde> i'd put it in the quietest place you can
[13:40] <eroomde> given it has a fairly deaf antenna
[13:41] <Ugi> Board is this: http://www.ugilabs.co.uk/Scrap/HABboard.png
[13:41] <eroomde> looks pretty
[13:41] <Ugi> I can either wrap it under the bottom left corner (under the NTX2 pnis)
[13:41] <eroomde> but yes, the further away you can put it the better
[13:42] <eroomde> with one caveat
[13:42] <Ugi> or stick it out from the top on the LH side
[13:42] <eroomde> top lh if it has to be one
[13:42] <Ugi> you can see where the breakout fits the holes on the LHS
[13:42] <Ugi> it will go either on the underside, under the board
[13:43] <Ugi> or on the top side, sticking out over space
[13:43] <Ugi> I take it the sticking out over space is better
[13:43] <eroomde> so long as the antenna is as far away from anything to do with metal (or anything else) as possible
[13:43] <eroomde> do that one
[13:43] <Steve_2E0VET> is there a simple one line command to move an array into a string?
[13:44] <Ugi> right. Will do that. Should only have blue foam around it.
[13:44] <daveake> A string is an array. What are you trying to do?
[13:45] <Steve_2E0VET> trying to print the array out using Serial.println
[13:45] <eroomde> a string is an array with '\0' on the end
[13:45] <Steve_2E0VET> ok i think that answers my question
[13:45] <Ugi> thanks eroomde
[13:45] <Steve_2E0VET> cheers
[13:46] <eroomde> they are both just a pointer
[13:46] <eroomde> if you understand what i mean by that
[13:46] <eroomde> if you don't, go and read about [pointers and then you'll have a programming enlightenment
[13:46] <eroomde> a[2] == *(a + 2)
[13:47] <eroomde> if that makes sense to you, hurrah. if it doesn't go and read up, then hopefully a lot more of c/c++ will make sense
[13:48] <Steve_2E0VET> yes i understand that, just trying to get used to a different way of programming (I'm from an AS400 background)
[13:53] <eroomde> well, if you understand that then hopefully you see that 'converting' an array into a string is an odd question
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[14:26] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[14:36] <Willdude123> Hi
[14:37] <Willdude123> I'm testing out my logic analyser.
[14:37] <Willdude123> I've got it connected to the NTX2
[14:37] <Willdude123> Well, the txd pin, before the resistor.
[14:37] <Willdude123> What analyser should I use to check it?
[14:38] <mattbrejza> async serial
[14:38] <mattbrejza> then set to 50 baud, 7 data bits
[14:38] <mattbrejza> the polartity might need changing too
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[14:40] <Willdude123> Yesh it works
[14:41] Action: Willdude123 buys new breadboard
[14:42] <Willdude123> Wow
[14:42] <Willdude123> This is really pretty good.
[14:42] <Willdude123> Especially for 50 quid
[14:42] <mattbrejza> it is very nice
[14:43] <mattbrejza> pretty much essential for some stuff
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[14:44] <Ugi> what is the new kit that you have Willdude123 ?
[14:44] <mattbrejza> saleae
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[14:45] <Willdude123> Ugi: Saleae logic analyser
[14:45] <Willdude123> Hi matt
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Willdude123
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[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I'm up to the "twist together" section of the payload antenna guide and I'm really confused. I've got the two wires with the missing insulation in the centre. I just can't figure out how to twist them :/
[14:46] <HixWork> http://i.imgur.com/jIe7Wok.png http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/2pin-screw-terminal-01in ibanezmatt13
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> Thank HixWork
[14:46] <HixWork> there be your connectors. I'm off now. laters all
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: That's the one I've already ordered :P
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> Bye!
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[14:47] <Willdude123> This logic analyser is epic.
[14:49] <eroomde> what have you got Willdude123?
[14:50] <Ugi> Willdude123: cool. Where do you get one for £50? Sounds like a handy thing to have in the drawer
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[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: So I've got a pencil, I put the two wires on each side of the pencil and then twist them together like I would twist copper wire together for tinning?
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[14:55] <mfa298> Ugi: it's one of these http://www.saleae.com/ but I think Willdude123 played the student card to get a nice discout.
[14:56] <eroomde> oh nice Willdude123
[14:56] <eroomde> that's a great device
[14:57] <Ugi> that looks a handy piece of kit
[14:58] <fsphil> it is
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[14:59] <Babs__> Morning/Afternoon
[15:00] <chrisstubbs> G0TDJ_Steve, regulators buggered, sorry :(
[15:01] <Babs__> Arko and I finally proving this whole thing isn't some massive Turing test http://imgur.com/Teibvqy
[15:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh, whats the problem?
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> the one with the smashed inductor just wont boost with vin < 1.8v No good for single AA use :(
[15:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> That's a shame. No worries. I'll go with the TI device
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[15:02] <eroomde> nice Babs__
[15:03] <Laurenceb> is that a flying saucer?
[15:03] <Laurenceb> off for some alien probing?
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> I've just measured my radials and they're about 160mm instead of 164mm. Shall I start over or will this be ok?
[15:04] <daveake> it's fine
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[15:04] <Babs__> I don't know whether the barman was playing a gag on us by placing it through arkos head
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[15:05] <eroomde> i suspect he'd be quite happy with the idea of an alien visitation
[15:06] <Babs__> It was happy hour and Stella was $3 a pint so I was happy
[15:06] <eroomde> jesus
[15:06] <eroomde> that's amazing for the US
[15:07] <eroomde> i was so relieved when i got back to find i could have been for <£5
[15:07] <eroomde> beer*
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[15:08] <eroomde> i love it when, instudying something complicated, something fundamental clicks
[15:08] <eroomde> that you in theory sort of always knew, at least on paper, but it obviously hadn't really clicked until then
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[15:12] <LeoBodnar> ping KT5TK
[15:15] <Willdude123> Can anyone help me figure out why text wrapping won't work in my irssi screen sesh?
[15:17] <Steve_2E0VET> Does TinyGps actually read the gps data from the serial port or would i have to do it anotherway
[15:18] <x-f> Willdude123, have you tried resizing the window?
[15:18] <x-f> Willdude123, how are you attaching to the screen?
[15:18] <Willdude123> Yes results in some error. Like invalid message
[15:18] <Willdude123> screen -dr
[15:21] <x-f> try screen -Ard maybe
[15:22] <Willdude123> Could someone have infinite gain by placing a load of habamps in series?
[15:22] <Willdude123> Nope/
[15:22] <Willdude123> Doesn't work
[15:23] <x-f> is it a screen issue or irssi's?
[15:23] <Willdude123> Screen I thimk
[15:23] <eroomde> also it's as much about signal to noise ratio as just signal power too
[15:23] <eroomde> and you'd be both amplifying the noise along with the signal from the previous stage, + also adding more noise in with each additional stage
[15:23] <Willdude123> Dammit this is annoyin
[15:24] <eroomde> it might be irssi
[15:24] <Willdude123> eroomde: I can't read that.
[15:24] <eroomde> mine never wrapped
[15:24] <eroomde> oh i see
[15:24] <eroomde> that kind of wrapping
[15:24] <eroomde> himm
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[15:25] <x-f> restart irssi, i've seen that before
[15:26] <eroomde> "next time you return my spanner, can it not be covered in hydrazine?"
[15:26] <eroomde> overheard in workshop
[15:27] <mattbrejza> 'Hydrazine is highly toxic and dangerously unstable' hmm
[15:27] <Willdude123> Well, your job isn't exactly rocket science is it?
[15:27] <mattbrejza> not the sort of thing i want on my spanner tbh
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[15:32] <Babs__> Wash the hydrazine off with some mercury , then pop it in an asbestos case
[15:32] <Babs__> That should get him going
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[15:37] <SpeedEvil> Hydrazine is known to the state of california to cause cancer.
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> And pretty much everything else.
[15:37] <Steve_2E0VET> can anyone tell why this simple (probably too simple) script doesnt read any gps data http://pastebin.com/zHwASq4M
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[15:38] <fsphil> it might do. but it's not doing anything else
[15:38] <Willdude123> Hi
[15:40] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, no ive gone back to basics, trying to write my own script
[15:40] <Willdude123> I need to write a really long line to test if irssi is working now
[15:40] <Willdude123> Dammit
[15:40] <Willdude123> It isn't
[15:40] <Willdude123> Quitting didn't mhelp
[15:40] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, fsphil it never gets into here while (GPS.available())
[15:41] <Willdude123> erm
[15:41] <fsphil> how can you tell?
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[15:41] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, i put Serial.println in
[15:41] <fsphil> one quicky, you're sending data to it before you open it in setup()
[15:41] <Willdude123> Anyone know why my screen/irssi sesh isn't wrapping text.
[15:41] <Willdude123> ?
[15:42] <x-f> Willdude123, type C-a r, what does it say?
[15:42] <fsphil> and make sure your RXPIN and TXPIN are correct
[15:42] <Willdude123> -wrap
[15:42] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, how thats... setup runs first?
[15:42] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, yes rx/tx are correct
[15:43] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, gps.print!!
[15:43] <x-f> Willdude123, now do it again, that wasn't it :/
[15:43] <fsphil> you call gps.printf before gps.begin
[15:43] <fsphil> -f
[15:43] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, let me take a look at that
[15:44] <Willdude123> Done again
[15:44] <Willdude123> Also resizing fucks it up, and there's then a whole load of invalid message crap.
[15:45] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: check your gps baud rate is really 4800 too
[15:45] <fsphil> the ublox defaults to 9600 iirc
[15:45] <fsphil> though I had one that used 38400
[15:45] <fsphil> it seems to be an exception
[15:45] <LeoBodnar> Prozac®
[15:46] <fsphil> you wouldn't want Amateurzac
[15:46] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, no non of that worked
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[15:48] <fsphil> what does your code look like now?
[15:50] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, hold on just gonna test something
[15:52] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, somethings not right i might be a while lol
[15:54] <Willdude123> Argh
[15:54] <Willdude123> This is really annoying
[15:54] <Willdude123> I might start using a normal irc client
[15:55] <mfa298> Willdude123: it could be an issue with your client settings (putty ?)
[15:55] <mfa298> although I don't thinkI've ever had issues like that
[15:55] <Willdude123> They've always been like this though
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[15:55] <Willdude123> I haven't changed a thing
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[15:56] <mfa298> did you change anything in screen/irssi when you were playing with mosh
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[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> For the radials on a 1/4 wave antenna, aren't the radials supposed to be >= the main element length? Mine are 160mm and I need to be sure that they'll be ok :/
[15:58] <fsphil> a few mm won't matter
[15:58] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
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[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> I can't believe I've made it myself :)
[16:00] <ibanezmatt13> I followed the new method on the Wiki. It's a much stronger method
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[16:07] <x-f> Upu, Tom is mentioned twice on the conference attendees list
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[16:15] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[16:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Guys, Can I get an Eagle library that includes the NTX2 anywhere please?
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> Upu's Ava library
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries
[16:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh cool. I'll have a peek - Thanks
[16:17] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 I'm sure I answered that same question about your radial length earlier
[16:17] <G0TDJ_Steve> And the link magically appears :D Cheers again
[16:17] <daveake> Don't you trust me? :p
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> you certainly did, of course I trust you I just... :P
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> 3 confimations is good for things like this :)
[16:18] <daveake> Get one more then
[16:18] <daveake> 1 per radial
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: What was it you wanted to know about Eagle?
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> a few days back
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> back in 30 mins, gotta go get somethign
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[16:28] <Joel_re> do you guys parse the gps module data before pushing it over rtty?
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> Yes
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could do it raw - if the module can be so condigured
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> Set it to 50bps - disable all but one sentance.
[16:29] <Joel_re> hrm
[16:30] <Joel_re> Im going to attempt to do this with the msp430, so wondering if that can be left to the basestation
[16:30] <mattbrejza> :/
[16:32] <daveake> Payload ID of GPGGA ....
[16:32] <mattbrejza> although eww, xor checksum
[16:32] <daveake> and XOR checksum. Ugh.
[16:32] <Joel_re> ah
[16:32] <Joel_re> hrm
[16:32] <Joel_re> ok
[16:32] <daveake> snap
[16:32] <Steve_2E0VET> ok got a bit further can anyone shed any light on why we dont get to the following Serial.println("We DONT get here"); http://pastebin.com/c3ST9Jg2
[16:33] <mattbrejza> Joel_re: why would the msp430 mean you cant parse?
[16:33] <Steve_2E0VET> most of the code has been taken from the script on UKhas
[16:33] <Joel_re> mattbrejza: oh well mainly cause Im not good enough
[16:33] <Joel_re> with it
[16:33] <Joel_re> it should be feasible, I'll give it a try
[16:34] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET Try writing c to your debug port
[16:34] <Joel_re> I plan to read from module, write to sdcard, send over rtty
[16:34] <mattbrejza> if a picaxe can manage im sure a msp430 can
[16:35] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, i think that comes up as a two digit number i will have a look
[16:35] <daveake> Yes because it's an int
[16:35] <daveake> Make it a char
[16:37] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, you a star!!!!
[16:37] <mattbrejza> does anyone know whether 'tracking number not avaliable' on farnell still means i have to be up early to sign for it?
[16:39] <arko> morning
[16:39] <arko> nice picture Babs__
[16:39] <arko> :P
[16:39] <Babs__> Comedy. That was fun, thanks for coming over.
[16:39] <arko> :) thanks for beer
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[16:40] <Babs__> Eroomde was disappointed to have missed out on happy hour Stella
[16:41] <arko> haha
[16:41] <arko> that was a steal of a deal
[16:41] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: Usually means "Sent by Royal Mail"
[16:41] <arko> odd the clean blue sky looks grey/white
[16:41] <arko> we even tried to take the picture such to make uk folks jealous :P
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[16:42] <Babs__> I think the auto white balance on the camera adjusted for my pasty skin
[16:42] <arko> haha
[16:43] <Babs__> Ping fsphil
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[16:48] <fsphil> oh too slow
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[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n6dq1tqwm8cq5i3/8w-3DL9FWY Have I succeeded or failed?
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[16:58] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: I was just commenting that you'd doing better in eagle generally than I have :)
[16:59] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, lol :)
[16:59] <fsphil> I use it for a while, find something annoying then get distracted
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[17:00] <ibanezmatt13> So did I when I was first doing it. After seeing the end result https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjl2kvs44zx4ktn/NORB_v1.png I'll not get distracted again when using Eagle
[17:01] <jonsowman> oh the angles
[17:01] <jonsowman> turn angle checking on in DRC and cry
[17:01] <jonsowman> ;)
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[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> beautiful angles I know
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> I kinda like the angles
[17:01] <jonsowman> haha
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[17:02] <jonsowman> checked it all with DRC?
[17:02] <ibanezmatt13> yep, already being manufactured :)
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[17:02] <jonsowman> excellent
[17:02] <jonsowman> well done
[17:02] <ibanezmatt13> thanks, I learned a lot from several people
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[17:12] <Steve_2E0VET> where would i be able to see an example of the string that come from the ublox
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> the datasheet has all example strings
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> max 6?
[17:13] <Steve_2E0VET> ta
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[17:13] <Steve_2E0VET> yes
[17:15] <ibanezmatt13> If you're doing NMEA, this is good. http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/ For PUBX, datasheet has everything :)
[17:16] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, yes seen that, i am trying to work out what chars like <CR><LF> are sent at the end of the message
[17:17] <Steve_2E0VET> found it
[17:18] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[17:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'd like to control three LEDs on a timing sequence from some sort of microcontroller and I was wondering what was the smallest microcontroller I could get away with. I was thinking ATTINY but there are so many to choose from
[17:38] <Laurenceb> niceee
[17:38] <Laurenceb> 787 prototype just flew past my office
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> pic10f is quite small?
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: trailing li-ion smoke?
[17:38] <Laurenceb> heh
[17:39] <Laurenceb> actually it was trailing two spitfires for some reason
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> German pilot.
[17:39] <Laurenceb> different RR engines i guess
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> they don't quite trust them.
[17:39] <Laurenceb> heh
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[17:42] <wrea> Saw the first few at Boeing Field when they were doing the FAA testing
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[17:48] <gb73d> http://www.shoppingblog.com/mattel-launches-mars-explorer-barbie-806201315
[17:48] <gb73d> maybe she would like a testflight HABers ?
[17:51] <Joel_re> haha
[17:52] <wrea> lol
[17:56] <daveake> Very pink. Paging Upu :p
[17:56] <Upu> thats how I picture myself at launch time
[17:56] <daveake> She looks more relaxed
[17:56] <Upu> lol
[17:56] <arko> Upink
[17:59] <daveake> nice helmet
[17:59] <gb73d> brings a new meanin to Mars Bar
[17:59] <gb73d> Mars Barbie
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[18:00] <daveake> hello
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:00] <daveake> I win
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> Is it normal to get the odd "false" when setting flight mode. It doesn't usually happen but it does occasionally
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[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, they all seem to be true now
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> Must have just been a blip
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[18:04] <Steve_2E0VET> why do i see this ??:??:?? $$ in the text console of ucentre
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[18:15] <LeoBodnar> Upu are you around?
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[18:17] <LeoBodnar> ping KT5TK
[18:17] <ibanezmatt13> For a tracker, is it possible to step a 3v coin cell up to 3v3 or is it more appropriate to step a 3v coin cell up to 5v?
[18:17] <LeoBodnar> What coin cell?
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> just a normal lithium coin cell at 3v. Is it a crc1220 or something?
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> CR2032 max current is 10mA
[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear
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[18:19] <ibanezmatt13> Basically, I need a small power supply for a tracker, I was wondering if the coin cell would do it. Are AAAs the closest to small I can get?
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> It's not designed to do what you want it to do
[18:20] <LeoBodnar> Lithium AAA is what you want
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thank you.
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> You can do a lot of research but you will end up with Lithium Energizer AAAs
[18:21] <arko> heh so true
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds good. Thanks LeoBodnar
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> Unless you MUST have power source of less than 7.5g
[18:21] <arko> best battery in every aspect
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> it's not strictly necessary to be so light. Thanks for the info
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> Can a 3v supply be stepped up to 3v3 or is that too close?
[18:22] <LeoBodnar> If you can live with 7.5g then that's pretty much decided for you :)
[18:22] <arko> LeoBodnar: you flying soon?
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> arko: when the blastery wind dies a bit. All week it was 3-4 days and you're in Siberia
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> Or the North pole
[18:24] <arko> blah
[18:24] <arko> damn weather getting in the way of weather ballooning
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> ibanezmatt13: simple DC-DC converters don't like Vin ~ Vout
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> But you can use SEPIC converter for that
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> never heard of it LeoBodnar
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> 1.4V -> 3.3V is no problem at 90+% efficiency
[18:25] <LeoBodnar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-ended_primary-inductor_converter
[18:25] <mattbrejza> everones favourite tps61200 can do it, not sure wat what efficiency
[18:26] <LeoBodnar> I'm not everyone :)
[18:26] <mattbrejza> indeed :P
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look into it
[18:26] <mattbrejza> but the reason its used is that it has the lowest startup voltage around
[18:27] <mattbrejza> and it does seem to just work, unlike some others
[18:27] <nigelvh> Woot woot! New boards arrived! http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IMG_0107.jpg
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> You can pick a DC-DC converter pretty much without opening a datasheet and efficiency will still be between 80 and 95% otherwise there's no sense to have a product in this market segment.
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> wow nigelvh
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: just out of curiosity, what connector are you using for your battery input?
[18:28] <nigelvh> None, just wires.
[18:29] <mattbrejza> nigelvh i see is a tps fan
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> Yes, startup / Uvlo voltages differ quite a bit but a Lithium battery goes from 0.8v to 0.2V in about 5 minutes?
[18:29] <nigelvh> The tps works and is small. Can
[18:29] <nigelvh> 't complain too much.
[18:29] <mattbrejza> yea im aware, but i seem to remember quite a few dont like much below 1.1
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: is that a step up or step down?
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> or both?
[18:30] <nigelvh> Both
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> What chip antenna did you use nigelvh ?
[18:30] <mattbrejza> actually the tps can do both, but its a pretty crappy step down
[18:30] <nigelvh> Yes, it is a crappy step down, but it does work.
[18:30] <nigelvh> The same chip as in Upu's store.
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> So what's the best sort of step up, that TPS right there?
[18:31] <nigelvh> It doesn't make sense for me to order those from him due to shipping, but it's the same one.
[18:31] <mattbrejza> i noticed in step down mode it added extra noise to the radio output which was a bit weird
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> A bit too close to GND for my liking
[18:31] <LeoBodnar> But might work as it is not caged in
[18:32] <nigelvh> I've noticed that any voltage near the regulation voltage creates really noisy output from the TPS, get below it's much better, and above is somewhat better.
[18:32] <mattbrejza> i think it was doing 3.3->1.8 when i noticed
[18:33] <nigelvh> Yes LeoBodnar, not the most spacing the chip could have, but it's right at the edge of the board with nothing else around it, so I'm hopeful for decent performance.
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: There's another part on your PCB that looks like a similar design to the TPS, what is that? Centre top
[18:34] <nigelvh> That's the SI4464, the radio chip
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> Posh colour!
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> :D
[18:34] <nigelvh> OshPark
[18:35] <nigelvh> Purple boards and gold plated pads.
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> How does that differ from the NTX2 nigelvh ?
[18:35] <nigelvh> It's entirely different
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> Is it APRS?
[18:35] <nigelvh> Yes.
[18:35] <nigelvh> In theory I should be able to decode APRS as well.
[18:35] <nigelvh> The SI4464 is a TX/RX
[18:35] <nigelvh> Remote command baby!
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> Oh, do you do pre-emphasis on APRS data?
[18:36] <LeoBodnar> I have received one with RX/TX design today as well.
[18:36] <ibanezmatt13> you doing remote command? Nice
[18:37] <nigelvh> Pre-emphasis is for compensating for radios tuned for audio ranges, IE, 2200Hz has a lower deviation than 1200. I don't need to pre-emphasise as there's no audio filter to need to compensate for.
[18:37] <mattbrejza> does that IC have special stuff to do AFSK, or are you just crystal pulling a sine wave?
[18:37] <LeoBodnar> Well you are planning to send APRS data to others?
[18:38] <nigelvh> The IC will do FSK, and I use a VCXO to modulate FM AFSK.
[18:38] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar, I do and have.
[18:38] <nigelvh> It works quite well.
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> The others are squashing 2200Hz at 6dB/octave before feeding it into a slicer
[18:38] <mattbrejza> i cant see it rx'ing aprs though
[18:39] <nigelvh> Why not mattbrejza?
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> I've not really heard of APRS. Is it far different from RTTY?
[18:39] <mattbrejza> well the modem it has is for FSK not AFSK
[18:39] <nigelvh> Yep. I know.
[18:39] <LeoBodnar> It's illegal ibanezmatt13 XD
[18:39] <ibanezmatt13> nice
[18:40] <nigelvh> It's illegal for the guys in the UK.
[18:40] <nigelvh> Yay US.
[18:40] <mattbrejza> (at altitude)
[18:40] <nigelvh> Yes
[18:40] <mattbrejza> but rtty performs better
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[18:40] <LeoBodnar> I am trying to implement APRS RX on Si4463 at the moment and it looks promisisng
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> AFSK is stone age
[18:41] <nigelvh> So mattbrejza, my plan with RX, is either use 9600baud packet which is fsk anyway, or "brute force" reception of AFSK by putting the FSK reciever out a bit at the deviation points and measuring that.
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[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> 446x packet handler buffer is 64 bytes
[18:43] <mattbrejza> oh right, didnt realise it can give out FM data
[18:44] <LeoBodnar> Are you pulling XTAL or modulating the carrier freq nigelvh ?
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[18:44] <nigelvh> I'm not planning to use the 4464 packet handler. It will just wiggle a pin that I'll watch with my atmega.
[18:45] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar, I'm using a VCXO that I modulate the audio onto.
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> you said you were going to use 9.6K baud packet ?
[18:45] <mattbrejza> youll still have to implement a fsk decoder on the atmega
[18:45] <nigelvh> Yep, I've got one working.
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> OK, I am using direct PLL modulation
[18:45] <mattbrejza> :)
[18:45] <nigelvh> I've done that with a previous chip, and it works, but it's not clean.
[18:46] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar ^
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> It can be made clean
[18:46] <nigelvh> Also, yes, I plan to experiment with 9600 baud packet. Presently my systems just use 1200 baud.
[18:46] <mattbrejza> 9600 baud aprs must use a decent amount of BW
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> YOu meant 9.6K for private uplink?
[18:47] <nigelvh> mattbrejza, 9600 baud moves away from AFSK and just uses FSK, so it's acutally similar bandwidth to 1200 AFSK.
[18:47] <mattbrejza> so like 25kHz?
[18:48] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar, Either just uplink, or both uplink and downlink. We've got a good bit of 9600 baud APRS infrastructure around the area, and I'd probably alternate 9600 and 1200 in flight.
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13> I made this 1/4 wave antenna earlier and I just wanted to know if I'd done it right. The radials are a little shy of 164mm at 160mm but it should be ok and the main element is the correct length. But is the actual way I've set it up ok? Ie, the positioning of each radial? https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n6dq1tqwm8cq5i3/8w-3DL9FWY
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> Ah, OK this makes sense to use then nigelvh
[18:48] <nigelvh> mattbrejza, no, 5KHz is max modulation bandwidth.
[18:49] <mattbrejza> how close are the two carriers?
[18:49] <nigelvh> Normally, AFSK or voice uses about 3.5khz, and I expect 9600 baud will be similar.
[18:50] <mattbrejza> i cant see how a 9600 baud fsk scheme can use 5000Hz of BW
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[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Magic!
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> FSK where shift is lower than baud is really PSK
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[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[18:55] <nigelvh> Deviation is recommended at 3KHz, with energy out to about 12KHz.
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[18:56] <mattbrejza> not exactly othogonal FSK then...
[18:56] <Upu> hey ibanezmatt13
[18:56] <nigelvh> No.
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n6dq1tqwm8cq5i3/8w-3DL9FWY I made this earlier but I'm not sure if it's ok
[18:57] <Upu> what are you not sure about ?
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> just whether the way I've done it is correct
[18:57] <Upu> heh
[18:57] <Upu> are the wires together = check
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> :P
[18:57] <Upu> put some solder on them
[18:58] <Upu> tin the stumps
[18:58] <Upu> sitck it all together
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> Nah I meant the positioning of the radials where they join on. It's not a perfect cross. I didn't know if it mattered
[18:58] <Upu> no
[18:58] <Upu> it doesn't
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> brilliant, I did it!
[18:58] <Upu> I mean if you're aiming for perfect SWR etc it may
[18:58] <nigelvh> Technically, yes, but for any useful purpose, it's fine.
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> If it's ok for the tracking I'm happy :)
[18:59] <Upu> basically if that main element is 164mm long and the rest of it looks like an antenna it probably is an antenna
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> I got the main element right
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> Also, is uhuPOR glue ok for sticking drinking straws to foam?
[19:00] <nigelvh> Well, technically your car is an antenna too. What matters is where it's resonant, which is why you use the 164mm length.
[19:00] <daveake> yes
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> Right, should be ok then
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: glue or antenna?
[19:00] <Upu> both
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[19:00] <daveake> yes
[19:01] <nigelvh> BTW Upu & daveake, got my new tracker boards in: http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IMG_0107.jpg
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Last thing, I may not be able to solder onto the NORB boards for a good two months or so until I've earned a bit. So I won't be purchasing things just yet :)
[19:01] <nigelvh> Gonna kill me to wait till tomorrow when the parts should arrive.
[19:02] <Upu> nice purple :)
[19:02] <Upu> how come vias not tented ?
[19:02] <Upu> looks great
[19:02] <Upu> 70cms or 2mtr ?
[19:02] <nigelvh> Vias not tented is the default. I just didn't change it.
[19:03] <nigelvh> Could be either. just need to adjust the filter
[19:03] <arko> are those 14mil?
[19:03] <nigelvh> It's a 4464.
[19:03] <nigelvh> 13mil
[19:03] <arko> oh
[19:03] <arko> weird, i thought eagle auto tented after 19
[19:03] <arko> er
[19:03] <arko> below 19
[19:03] <nigelvh> Nope.
[19:03] <Upu> whats the larger comp between the crystal and the ublox ?
[19:03] <Upu> crystal for SI
[19:03] <nigelvh> VCXO
[19:04] <Upu> k
[19:04] <arko> oo
[19:04] <arko> change that to a TCXO
[19:04] <arko> i have a vcxo on mine right now Si4461
[19:04] <nigelvh> Nope, I rely on VCXO to modulate AFSK onto the radio.
[19:04] <arko> it's drifting like a drunk on the road
[19:04] <arko> ohh
[19:04] <arko> nvm
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, you asked for a photo of my PCB
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[19:04] <Upu> TCVCXO :)
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/9/t/5yv5v1-kuqh2y-mge6/IMG0047.jpeg
[19:04] <nigelvh> And I don't have drift problems with mine.
[19:04] <arko> lol
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/4/o/j/5yv5v1-kuqh3i-2nps/IMG0048.jpeg
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko and Upu
[19:05] <nigelvh> And TCVCXO tend to have very limited pull ranges.
[19:05] <arko> oh really?
[19:05] <mattbrejza> you can turn a regular crystal into a VC one with only a few components nigelvh
[19:05] <arko> hi hi
[19:05] <Upu> hey Lunar
[19:05] <Upu> yeah arko something else up with yours must be
[19:05] <arko> must be
[19:05] <ibanezmatt13> Off to finish my antenna :O
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[19:05] <Upu> would only drift like that with temp really
[19:05] <arko> it was crazy to see how stable your tcxo was though
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, thats a pretty nice finish
[19:05] <arko> i can totally see it drift with temp though
[19:06] <Upu> its solid be interesting to see how it flies
[19:06] <Upu> reminds me
[19:06] <arko> then again i never used it for aprs
[19:06] <arko> only rtty
[19:06] <Upu> I need to see if I can get that board working with a GPS
[19:06] <arko> yar
[19:06] <wrea> nigelvh: nice to see someone up here in WA too
[19:06] <nigelvh> Yes arko, the advantage of FM is that it's tolerant of a bit of drift.
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> thanks chrisstubbs
[19:06] <nigelvh> wrea, where you at?
[19:07] <arko> stilldavid was talking about attempting a transatlantic
[19:07] <arko> i might fly out to colorado (see some other friends too) and launch some floaters
[19:07] <stilldavid> stilldavid talks a lot ;)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> hey stilldavid :)
[19:07] <wrea> nigelvh: Yelm
[19:07] <stilldavid> hiya Lunar_Lander
[19:07] <arko> well we are doing it now
[19:07] <arko> i cant legally launch mylar here!
[19:07] <arko> its stupid
[19:07] <arko> i need an excuse to visit denver
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:07] <arko> skiing
[19:08] <stilldavid> arko: now you're talking.
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[19:08] <nigelvh> wrea, well, you're a bit out of the way, I'm up in shoreline.
[19:08] <stilldavid> December? winds are good around then...
[19:08] <stilldavid> Lunar_Lander: good, good
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, I think I will rework it however because I talked to matt and ed this morning, as you remember
[19:08] <arko> plus you are literally the closes person to me
[19:08] <nigelvh> arko, come visit me in Seattle, we can launch a mylar.
[19:08] <arko> nigelvh: is second place
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> probably get rid of the stepup and get a 12V battery just for the Photodiode
[19:08] <arko> nigelvh: and shoot guns!
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> run the amplifier from 3V3
[19:08] <nigelvh> Yep
[19:08] <wrea> nigelvh: Yeah, out of the way for most everyone :P
[19:08] <arko> your laws are much better than california :(
[19:08] <wrea> And everything
[19:08] <arko> true
[19:08] <chrisstubbs> Ah yes
[19:09] <arko> wrea: you know about Black Lodge Research?
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> can it be that CA is restrictive with balloons because of that one guy who flew his lawnchair across LA?
[19:10] <arko> nah
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> under a balloon cluster
[19:10] <arko> power lines
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:10] <arko> unlike germany
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:10] <nigelvh> CA doesn't want mylars because they could short power lines.
[19:10] <arko> we run power above our heads
[19:10] <wrea> arko: yeah
[19:10] <arko> like idiots
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> I remember a Bill Brown flight which landed near
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> what was it
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> High Voltage?
[19:10] <arko> wrea nice! i have several friends up there
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> there was a city/place which was called like that
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> and on google earth it is just a field of power lines
[19:10] <wrea> Never been though, all the hackerspaces are up in Seattle or the eastside
[19:11] <arko> yeah
[19:11] <arko> good folks
[19:11] <Upu> nigelvh http://imgur.com/32g3o7M
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> but I got a question to all
[19:11] <nigelvh> Shiny dude. What's the length?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> stepups are RF devices, right?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> would my PCB even work?
[19:12] <nigelvh> Lunar, Yes. Stepups are RF. Will your PCB work? Try it. No way for us to tell you.
[19:12] <Upu> about 60mm
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:12] <nigelvh> Upu, so you went with the longer but skinnier, and I went more squat.
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> How come stepup is not TPS :)
[19:12] <Upu> I think I'm going squat
[19:13] <Upu> I'd used the LTC before LeoBodnar
[19:13] <nigelvh> Depends on the orientation.
[19:13] <Upu> its slightly smaller and slightly more efficient
[19:13] <nigelvh> Because yours is longer than mine, but mine is wider.
[19:14] <Upu> when I redo it
[19:14] <Upu> I'm going more along the lines of PAVA7
[19:14] <Upu> its too much of pain to make
[19:14] <nigelvh> Yeah.
[19:15] <nigelvh> I also like how the + symbol at yuour power connector seems to be over the negative connection.
[19:15] <Upu> haha well spotted
[19:15] <nigelvh> Also is that a half thickness board?
[19:15] <Upu> its far from perfect :)
[19:15] <Upu> 0.8mm
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:16] <nigelvh> Then yes. Mines a 1.6mm thickness.
[19:16] <Upu> I was just seeing if I could do what Leo did with the AVR
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, nigelvh I fortunately have enough parts to try it out
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> I din't do anything with AVR XD
[19:16] <Upu> also tested a few things
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> if it doesn't work, I make one without stepup and a 12V battery for the diode
[19:16] <Upu> like the AVR crystal is 16Mhz but I'm running it /8
[19:17] <Upu> so it runs at 2Mhz
[19:17] <Upu> means I can run it at 1.8V with a small crystal
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah CLKDIV
[19:17] <nigelvh> Nice.
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, and then even I would have a 3.3V to 9V stepup
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[19:17] <nigelvh> I just put a 8MHz xtal on mine so it will be happy at 3.3
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:17] <nigelvh> Though in theory I've had 3.3V ones run ok at 16.
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> What's your width Upu 13mm? Looks just a bit wider than mine looking at MAX-6
[19:17] <nigelvh> Don't wanna push it for a flight boar.d
[19:17] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:18] <Upu> 12.5mm
[19:18] <nigelvh> Yeah, mine is approximately 50x30mm.
[19:19] <Upu> 55m long excluding the antenna at the top
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> Mine is 11mm http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-3/Images/1.jpg
[19:19] <Upu> I had to get a second crystal in there
[19:19] <nigelvh> You don't get to cheat and not include the antenna on the top.
[19:19] <nigelvh> That's part of the board.
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[19:19] <nigelvh> :P
[19:19] <Upu> haha
[19:19] <Upu> Leo cheated he didn't use a crystal on his pic :)
[19:19] <nigelvh> I might classifying that as just being more space efficient.
[19:20] <Upu> 64mm
[19:20] <Upu> ish
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> 62.5mm haha
[19:20] <Upu> lol
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> Your's is longer and wider, i'll give you that
[19:20] <Upu> just waiting on mattbrejza to appear and burn us all
[19:20] <nigelvh> One of these days someone's going to make an ASIC that does it all and the whole tracker will be 1 cm^2
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> s/\'//
[19:22] <Upu> anyway Leo are you ok ?
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1274.jpg just needs AMY on the bottom layer
[19:22] <Willdude123> Hi
[19:22] <Upu> you've not launched in at least a week
[19:22] <Upu> I'll let you know they are due in soon
[19:23] <nigelvh> Leo, what kind of evil genious are you?
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> Yes, waiting for weather to settle down
[19:23] <Willdude123> *genius
[19:23] <nigelvh> Evil people never spell genious right.
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[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, cool
[19:24] <mattbrejza> was i called? :P
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[19:26] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/a/Fgesk i reckon i could get it smaller though
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Is this TI? I've lost my barge pole XD
[19:27] <Willdude123> Upu I ordered some headers for the GPS
[19:27] <Willdude123> Tested the Saleae
[19:27] <Upu> oh ok Will sorry I thought you were just going to solder some wires on
[19:28] <Willdude123> I thought about it but then I realized I wanted a less hack-y solution.
[19:28] <Willdude123> And at least with headers it's more difficult to short.#
[19:29] <Willdude123> Saleae seems to work fine. I plugged it into the txd of the NTX2 circuit and it read it OK.
[19:29] <Willdude123> I know this is more of a Low-Altitude question, but does anyone know of any cool RC helicopters?
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> no offence mattbrejza! I have used TI BT LE chipsets and they are just one horrible steaming buggy bleh. Including proprietary bibary-only libraries compiled for IAR use only.
[19:31] <Willdude123> S107G looks pretty cool. Could do arduino control too.
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> So I have a thing about TI RF stuff
[19:34] <daveake> Willdude123 Have you flown any r/c helis?
[19:34] <mattbrejza> its a msp430 + cc1101
[19:34] <mattbrejza> but the way the cc1101 and msp430 are attached is a bit weird
[19:35] <mattbrejza> so i just use TIs library and get on with it
[19:35] <mattbrejza> all i want it to do is produce a carrier
[19:35] <Willdude123> I flew a S031 for a while last summer, but it landed quite hard and now it keeps shaking, still flyable though.
[19:35] <Willdude123> That being a Syma S031
[19:36] <Willdude123> Had various small RC helis.
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, yea I only talked about what we discussed this morning
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> and above you can see what my PCB looks like
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> Is cc1101 a 8051 or just an RF frontend?
[19:37] <mattbrejza> ah very nice, i remember the says of 'home' etched pcbs
[19:37] <mattbrejza> the cc1101 is just a RF IC, like TIs version of the rfm IC
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:37] <daveake> I remember ruining some clothes when etching pcbs in my youth
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> Ah, OK, I have calmed down then XD
[19:38] <Upu> ping arko : $$PAVA-A,10,19:37:40,53.75248,-1.81795,279,4,17*0D70
[19:38] <Upu> it lives thanks mate :)
[19:38] <mattbrejza> there is a 8051 + cc1101 (cusf used it once), but this is msp430 + cc1101
[19:38] <mattbrejza> called cc430f513x
[19:38] <mattbrejza> x=5/7
[19:38] <Willdude123> daveake, So I'm not so much a beginner, but a more advanced beginner :)
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> thanks mattbrejza
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, yeah :)
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> I think everyone has like good memories of stuff they did
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder how I will look back at these years
[19:43] <mattbrejza> well how do you look back at your early #ha days?
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> maybe too many stupid questions
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> or sp
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> so
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[20:03] <ibanezmatt13> Is it normal for a switch mode regulator to get pretty hot when in a styrofoam box?
[20:04] <daveake> does it melt the foam? Burn your finger?
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> if I hold my hand on it for more than a few seconds, I have to take it away
[20:05] <daveake> That's marginal and I'm surprised it's that warm
[20:05] <Upu> don't hold it in your hand ?
[20:05] <daveake> Yeah keep your hand well away during flight
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> -_-
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[20:06] <Upu> put some hand warmers in and a nice duvet to keep it all warm and cosey
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Good one
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> :
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> So it's ok that it's all getting quite warm, particularly the regulator
[20:08] <Steve_2E0VET> i'm using ucentre to view my packets and this is the sort of thing i am getting, any ideas
[20:08] <Steve_2E0VET> ??:??:?? UNKNOWN ???, Size 303, 'UNKNOWN'
[20:09] <Steve_2E0VET> ??:??:?? NMEA ?????, Size 4, 'Unknown'
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[20:09] <Upu> no signal / satellites
[20:09] <Upu> can you get the antenna near a window ?
[20:09] <Willdude123> Upu What's SDA and SCL?
[20:10] <Steve_2E0VET> yes, because if i use a known working script it woks ok
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Google i2c
[20:10] <Willdude123> And TP and VBCK
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> voltage backup maybe?
[20:10] <Willdude123> Oh does this new GPS board use i2c?
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> Wikipedia might not give the best explanation, it didn't for me. Check Youtube out :)
[20:11] <Upu> TP = timepulse, one pulse per second when locked
[20:11] <Upu> VBCK = battery backup
[20:11] <Willdude123> Anyway. I need to find a good RC helicopter/quadcopter.
[20:12] <Upu> SDA/SCL are I2C connectors
[20:12] <Willdude123> Upu is i2c better?
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> I think the serial is far easier to understand
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> personally
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> Hardware serial (TX, RX)
[20:14] <Willdude123> It'd be nice to have a arducopter one, but they're expensive
[20:14] <Willdude123> Budget is <100
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> You planning on using Ardupilot Willdude123 ?
[20:15] <Gadget-Mac> Willdude123: this looks fun http://www.phenoptix.com/products/seeed-studios-bitcraze-crazyflie-nano-quadcopter-kit-10-dof-with-crazyradio-bc-cfk-02-b
[20:15] <Willdude123> Yesh
[20:15] Action: SpeedEvil wants a proper quadcopter.
[20:15] <Willdude123> Woah that's expensive
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> The CAA gets all pissy about those though.
[20:16] <Gadget-Mac> Willdude123: really ? Though it looked fun for the price
[20:17] <Willdude123> For me it is.
[20:17] <Willdude123> 160 quid is a lot when you're 13
[20:17] <Gadget-Mac> Well doubt you'll find anything for <£100
[20:17] <Willdude123> Well, it was a good idea but impossible due to cost.
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[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: this switching reg is getting worryingly warm considering it's not a linear
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[20:26] <daveake> measure Vin/out and I in/out
[20:26] <Babs__> Daveake - can I ask you a serial baud rate question thing?
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> Low volts diodes will cause a lot of loss if not synch
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> I've not been able to measure current yet but I can check the voltage
[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: stable 3v3 out, about 7.5 in
[20:29] <daveake> Babs__ go
[20:29] <Babs__> Thanks. Does changing the serial baud rate setting of a program affect the speed at which it runs (if we ignore the lines that print or check the serial port? Eg if none of those commands existed)
[20:30] <Babs__> As in does it also set some internal clock speed at which all other commands are processed
[20:30] <daveake> No
[20:30] <daveake> Only the serial stuff
[20:30] <Babs__> Cool. And it is totally different from setting the speed of the i2c port too?
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> if I connected a ammeter in parallel, of course it wouldnt work but would it cause any issues? Like blow anything up?
[20:31] <daveake> and then not always ... if the serial is buffered (usually is) and you send some bytes but less than the buffer size, that should return PDQ
[20:31] <daveake> Yes also separate
[20:31] <Babs__> I have a program that sets the i2c at 115200
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: If you don't have a synchronus rectiier - which none of them do - you'll get at best about 20% loss at 3.3V out
[20:31] <Babs__> But I'd like to run the serial port at 9600
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Which is enough to make stuff hot
[20:31] <Babs__> That's not going to cause issues?
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[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> very very hot, too hot to touch for more than 2 seconds SpeedEvil ?
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> hmm
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[20:32] <SpeedEvil> that's probably 70C
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> I'd want to measure Iin/Iout
[20:32] <daveake> Babs__ Not a problem
[20:32] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: an ammeter is as good as a dead short - don't connect it in parallel!
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know how to do it. My multimeter doesn't work on the current setting for some reason
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> ok mikestir
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[20:32] <mikestir> did you connect it in parallel?
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[20:33] <mikestir> because they usually have an internal fuse
[20:33] <mikestir> if you blow it then the amps ranges no longer work
[20:33] <Babs__> Awesome. Thanks dave, I appreciate it.
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> I could have done on something else ages ago I guess
[20:33] <daveake> I bet yuou did
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> definitely not the Pi though, it's working great cam and rtty wise
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> Just the reg is very warm. I'll show Upu when I next see him
[20:34] <ibanezmatt13> it seems to be a lot less warm without the Pi Cam actually daveake
[20:35] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 Get the fuse fixed then measure the current
[20:35] <daveake> You need that to calculate the run time on batteries
[20:35] <daveake> Pi cam uses a lot in video mode
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: it's so far been running 5 hours on half empty normal AAs
[20:36] <Willdude123> So should I work with the new ubx module with i2c?
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> with pi cam
[20:36] <daveake> Willdude123 why?
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> up to you Willdude123
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'd stick to hardware serial personally
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> quick, what is an old english dice game starting with H?
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah got it
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:37] <Willdude123> daveake, Because I can. Is it better in some way?
[20:38] <daveake> It's better if you don't have a spare serial port
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: do you know roughly what current the pi cam draws?
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[20:39] <daveake> 200mA OTTOMH
[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> Pi model A at 3v3 shouldn't be much either
[20:39] <daveake> Willdude123 You should use it. I say this because you generally ignore good advice and this way you're more likely to use serial.
[20:40] <daveake> Pi model A 115mA
[20:40] <Babs__> Daveake : one last question and then I will go away
[20:40] <Willdude123> Pfft
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[20:40] <Babs__> If I am communicating from arduino to arduino through hardware serial
[20:40] <daveake> Full tracker excluding cam around 220mA
[20:40] <Babs__> Ie I can control both baud rates independently
[20:41] Action: Willdude123 slaps daveake and not for humourous reasons
[20:41] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: So that means I am absolutely nowhere near 1A which the SMPS can do fine. Hmm, it may just be me
[20:41] <Babs__> Is there any impact (other than maybe speed of computation of none serial read/write lines in the program
[20:41] <daveake> So long as they're the same at the same time then good
[20:41] <Babs__> Of using differing baud rates?
[20:41] <Babs__> I have two wireless shields that only use 9600 baud
[20:41] <Babs__> But a program I am messing around with has 115600 set originally
[20:41] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 (literally) rule of thumb - if you can touch it for a couple of seconds, it's OK.
[20:41] <Babs__> I guess my question is
[20:42] <daveake> It just changes the time taken to send the data
[20:42] <ibanezmatt13> Well yeah I can do that, should be fine, especially up there. Thanks
[20:42] <Babs__> Does changing that 115600 to 9600 do anything in particular to change the program's speed of computation
[20:42] <Babs__> (Excluding the read / write elements )
[20:42] <daveake> It delays the data
[20:42] <Willdude123> daveake, I'll f*ck off somewhere else now, so you don't have to worry about me ignoring good advice.
[20:42] <Babs__> Which are presumably done more frequently in one than h other
[20:42] <Babs__> *the
[20:43] <Steve_2E0VET> where will i find the command strings to switch off various NMEA sentances
[20:43] <daveake> In the wiki
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_2E0VET: Lots on the wiki
[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> beat me to it :)
[20:43] <daveake> or the Ublox manual
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 Steve_2E0VET At the bottom
[20:44] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, i can only find some in the "example using software seriel" but there are a couple missing
[20:44] <Willdude123> AFK- will go and die.
[20:44] <Steve_2E0VET> i'll try the manual
[20:45] <daveake> Willdude123, What, again?
[20:45] <daveake> yeah everything is in the manual
[20:45] <daveake> however it's quite long
[20:45] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_2E0VET: As far as I know, this http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 at the bottom disables all NMEA sentences on hardware serial fine
[20:45] <daveake> but you can look up the commands you need
[20:46] <Willdude123> daveake, Yes. Because last time I chickened out. I don't know why, but I thought there was some purpose to it all.
[20:47] <daveake> Life is what you make it. You may think it has it in for you, but that's just because you're 12
[20:47] <daveake> or 13
[20:47] <daveake> or something
[20:47] <ibanezmatt13> wise words
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> the future is whatever you make it. so make it a good one
[20:48] <Willdude123> Oh so you hate me just because I'm 13?
[20:48] <daveake> Sorry, but if we advise Arduino and then you go use BBB, don't complain when next time you ask for advice people are reluctant to bother
[20:49] <daveake> And no I don't hate you. You just think people do.
[20:50] <Willdude123> You obviously do.
[20:50] <daveake> See, I say one thing you think the opposite. So, go use i2c it's the best option.
[20:50] <Upu> Willdude123
[20:50] <Upu> stop it
[20:50] <Upu> only warning
[20:50] <ibanezmatt13> Let's liven the place up a bit with a gif http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l631/hinamari666/Animated/566_two-leg-horse.gif
[20:51] <Willdude123> Only warning for what?
[20:51] <Upu> off topic and obfuscated swearing again..
[20:52] <Steve_2E0VET> did anyone else have to go an google obfuscated - go on admit it
[20:52] <daveake> nope :)
[20:53] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[20:53] <Steve_2E0VET> lol
[20:53] <Upu> in fairness I had to google how to spell it :)
[20:53] <daveake> lol
[20:53] <craag> Is anyone going to the Low-altitude balloon fiesta tomorrow btw?
[20:53] <fsphil> some of my code could be submitted to the obfuscated C contest
[20:53] <daveake> yep
[20:54] <daveake> tomorrow morning
[20:54] <daveake> if we wake up in time
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> craag, details?
[20:54] <daveake> Bristol
[20:54] <Steve_2E0VET> ive just googled "getVTG_ACK was not declared in this scope and it hasnt told me what is wrong
[20:54] <craag> http://www.bristolballoonfiesta.co.uk/
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[20:54] <daveake> Unlike other balloon fiestas this w/e, this one is actually happening
[20:54] <chrisstubbs> Lol
[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_2E0VET: Can you upload your code to Github, I'd love to see it :)
[20:55] <craag> cool daveake, I'm setting up some people-counting kit there
[20:55] <arko> hah
[20:55] <arko> someone put a tracker on them
[20:55] <daveake> Ah
[20:55] <daveake> I shall try to avoid being counted then :p
[20:55] <daveake> Tell me how it works and I'll see what kit I can take to make it fail :p
[20:55] <craag> lol, keep the wifi switched off on your phone then!
[20:55] <daveake> :)
[20:56] <craag> It harvests mac addresses of boradcasting clients
[20:56] <daveake> haha
[20:56] <craag> *broadcasting
[20:57] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, surely the examples for HWS will work for software serial?
[20:57] <craag> It's a prototype, so I could spend all day trying to fix it when the people-count overflows.. but hopefully not :)
[20:57] <daveake> S/S doesn't always work
[20:57] <ibanezmatt13> Software serial can be a pain Steve_2E0VET
[20:58] <iain_g4sgx> Quick question, do I remove the leading zeros from the sentence ID on the UKHAS protocol sentence?
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[20:58] <fsphil> you don't have to iain_g4sgx
[20:58] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, I'll put it up now, but basically it is the software serial version that is on the wiki, but i have started to try and split the sentance up to send it via rtty, been on it 2 weeks and not getting anywhere fast
[20:58] <Upu> iain_g4sgx you can yes
[20:59] <fsphil> but probably better if you do
[20:59] <fsphil> (shorter strings)
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_2E0VET: arduino?
[20:59] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, yes
[20:59] <ibanezmatt13> Steve_2E0VET: Are your hardware serial pins taken up?
[20:59] <daveake> I leave the altitude field as 5 fixed digits, just so it's easier to spot visually :)
[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, mark from stratodean said i could have his to play with but that keeps getting stuck in a loop so decided to try and do my own
[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, 0/1 ?
[21:00] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> iban no
[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, no
[21:00] <iain_g4sgx> tnx
[21:01] <ibanezmatt13> I would strongly recomend using those then if you're not using them for anything else. S/S is possible to get going but it's not the best as it's really sensitive to timing
[21:01] <daveake> real uarts are there for a reason
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> tell me about it
[21:03] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, i will do that, just one thing what is the advantage
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> I have been trying to get a canon camera doing RTTY using CHDK
[21:03] <chrisstubbs> timing nightmare
[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> a lot
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[21:03] <ibanezmatt13> You don't need to worry much about getting stuck in loops and other timing related issues
[21:03] <craag> lol chrisstubbs
[21:04] <craag> that would be interesting...
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> not that the loop problem you're having is definitely a timing issue
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:04] <iain_g4sgx> All my routines finished now apart from ubx response parsing, hope to do that this weekend. Now testing but live next to a pub, noticed some people having trouble getting into their cars last time i tested. :)
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[21:04] <chrisstubbs> I got it just-about badly decoding at 45 baud
[21:05] <craag> oh cool!
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> Interested to find out if I can make it run better on a faster camera with faster processor
[21:05] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs, What would it tx?
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> ssdv if the camera had the power to do all the converting etc
[21:05] <chrisstubbs> or if i got one with a gps for geotagging, coords too
[21:05] <fsphil> would only need a few kb
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: On the Pi n Chips, what is the three pin header for next to the temp sensor?
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[21:06] <Upu> another temp sensor
[21:06] <Upu> external
[21:06] <daveake> chrisstubbs That would be cool
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> :)
[21:06] <daveake> Though a Pi tracker/camera weighs less and is probably cheaper
[21:06] <craag> chrisstubbs: What output are you using?
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> They do have a uart, but nobody on the internet seems to know how to use it
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> craag, flashing the print led
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Very interesting. What sort of external temp sensor?
[21:07] <craag> haha
[21:07] <Upu> DS18B20
[21:07] <Upu> same as on board
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> with the ntxt soldered on (with voltage divider etc)
[21:07] <craag> wow ok
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> *ntx2
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Would I have to change anything to use it? Cut some tracks or something?
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/14edaIq
[21:07] <Upu> no just stick one in there
[21:08] <Upu> its a bus
[21:08] <Upu> you can put a few on
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[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> ah cool. But it might still not work like the current DS18B20 Upu. Not sure why that's not working actually.
[21:09] <chrisstubbs> UART Settings: 115200/8/1/N (115200 Baud) @ 3.3v
[21:09] <chrisstubbs> might be a problem
[21:09] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Is it wired up to the same track as the other one? If so there's probably no point looking into using one
[21:10] <Upu> yes but its a bus
[21:10] <Upu> so you put it on there
[21:10] <Upu> and scan the bus
[21:10] <Upu> and you get 2
[21:10] <Upu> rather than 1
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[21:10] <ibanezmatt13> At the moment it doesn't detect any are connected Upu.
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> I tried to connect the track to GPIO4 instead of 1 but it still doesnt work
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> Doesn't really matter tbh, just curious
[21:12] <Upu> I'd love to help
[21:12] <Upu> but Raspberry Pi
[21:12] Action: daveake runs for door
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> Nah, like you said, it's cold :)
[21:13] <Upu> lol
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[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Any news on the Habduino prices yet?
[21:18] <Upu> about £100
[21:18] <Upu> not decided exactly
[21:19] <Upu> the transmitter is quite expensive on it
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> not ntx2?
[21:19] <Upu> no LMT2
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> arr right
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: We're making our antenna and my Dad has a quesiton
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> Is duct tape and gaffer tape transparent to radio waves?
[21:22] <Upu> yes
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[21:24] <daveake> Even the silver-grey stuff
[21:24] <daveake> Of course, pink increases the signal strength
[21:24] <Steve_2E0VET> can you upload the sketch using hardware serial
[21:25] <fsphil> pink makes the signal move away from the payload quicker
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[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[21:26] <Upu> pink is more manly too
[21:26] <arko> agreed
[21:26] <fsphil> lies
[21:26] <Upu> and reduces failure and increases success with the opposite sex
[21:26] <arko> agreed
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:26] <fsphil> all lies
[21:26] <arko> my gf loves my hab colors
[21:27] <iain_g4sgx> Heard of a strange hobby last night, peeps who send up mad items on ballons just to photograph them at high altitude, like teddys and bunnys. Seems like its getting popular. Didnt mention a tardis or wedding dress though!
[21:28] <cde> but why
[21:28] <daveake> Bowl of petunias next
[21:28] <arko> YES
[21:29] <iain_g4sgx> Dunno. Can see the attraction though. Petiunias is good, giant peach?
[21:30] <Steve_2E0VET> HELP!!! just just trying the the hardware serial script from the wiki for GPS, but getting a messaage "debug was not declared in this scope - what have i missed
[21:30] <daveake> declaring debug in that scope
[21:30] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, i kinda worked that bit out
[21:30] <daveake> oh good :)
[21:31] <Steve_2E0VET> but i dont knoiw how to declare it
[21:31] <daveake> Well it's referring to a variable or function called "debug"
[21:31] <daveake> So find out which, for a start
[21:31] <Steve_2E0VET> its debug.println
[21:32] <bertrik> some people send up all kinds of sensors (gyro, accelerometer, electric field, UV, compass), but forget about the sensor stuff when they see the photos and videos
[21:32] <daveake> OK so that's probably a s/s object
[21:32] <daveake> just comment it out for now
[21:33] <Steve_2E0VET> whats the difference between debug.println and Serial.println
[21:33] <daveake> name of the s/s object
[21:34] <daveake> debug.println is telling the "debug" object to "println". You don't have an object called "debug" hence the error
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[21:34] <Steve_2E0VET> yep changing them all to mySerail
[21:35] <Steve_2E0VET> mySerial*
[21:35] <Steve_2E0VET> can you upload sketches via the addition FTD or do you need to use the onboard one
[21:37] <daveake> onboard. Or buy a real programmer. <--- good option
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[21:48] <Steve_2E0VET> how much are "REAL" PROGRAMMERS
[21:50] <Upu> http://proto-pic.co.uk/stk500-compatible-usb-programmer/
[21:50] <Upu> they seem to have gone up in price
[21:50] <fsphil> yikes
[21:50] <fsphil> quite a bit
[21:50] <Upu> https://www.olimex.com/Products/AVR/Programmers/AVR-ISP500/
[21:51] <Upu> 20 eur
[21:51] <fsphil> http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/271172859271
[21:51] <Upu> perfect
[21:51] <Steve_2E0VET> its worth it cos at the moment i have to swap the usb round and remember to take the tx lead off
[21:51] <Upu> at £20 I might buy a spare
[21:52] <fsphil> yea they are handy
[21:52] <Steve_2E0VET> just added it to my watch list
[21:52] <Upu> I have a faulty one
[21:52] <Steve_2E0VET> does that plug straight into the arduino
[21:52] <Upu> ICSP header yes
[21:52] <fsphil> my arduino board has a header for it
[21:52] <fsphil> 3x2
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[21:59] <chrisstubbs> make sure your postcode is in caps
[21:59] ikke_ (53560375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.86.3.117) joined #highaltitude.
[21:59] <chrisstubbs> or they will take your money and throw it out the window and consider that "posted"
[22:00] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Could you open a PM for a second :)
[22:01] <Steve_2E0VET> having problems with the hardware serail script, it only seems to print $GPGGA sentances, it doesnt even print any of the text at the top of the script?
[22:02] <ibanezmatt13> maybe all the NMEA's except gpgga are disabled
[22:02] <ibanezmatt13> GPGGA is the one commonly used so that is likely
[22:02] <Steve_2E0VET> no they are commented out (i think)
[22:02] <ibanezmatt13> worth checking Steve_2E0VET :)
[22:03] <ibanezmatt13> commented out?
[22:03] <ibanezmatt13> the commands to disable are commented out?
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[22:04] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[22:04] <Steve_2E0VET> ibanezmatt13, which by default should mean they are enabled yes/no
[22:04] <Willdude123> Hi again people.
[22:05] <ibanezmatt13> if all commands commented ,all should be enabled yes
[22:05] <fsphil> unless previously disabled
[22:05] <fsphil> the gps doesn't get reset unless you power it down
[22:05] <ibanezmatt13> yep ^^
[22:06] <Steve_2E0VET> somethings not right even mySerial.println("GPS Level Convertor Board Test Script"); isnt printing
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> what's myserial setup as?
[22:07] <Steve_2E0VET> ok they are all printing again, but still not the other text
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> the other text being print statements?
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
[22:07] <Steve_2E0VET> SoftwareSerial mySerial(4, 5);
[22:08] <Steve_2E0VET> 4 & 5 go into my external FTDI
[22:08] <Steve_2E0VET> yes
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[22:08] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, any suggestions?
[22:11] <Steve_2E0VET> if i hit the reset button they print
[22:11] <fsphil> is the code visible anywhere?
[22:12] <Steve_2E0VET> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=frontpage:levelconvertor
[22:13] <fsphil> unmodified?
[22:13] <Steve_2E0VET> of course...
[22:14] <fsphil> sure?
[22:14] <Steve_2E0VET> yes, i need to get it working before i modd it
[22:14] <Steve_2E0VET> if i hit the reset button it all works properly
[22:15] <fsphil> where does it fail?
[22:15] <Steve_2E0VET> it doesnt anymore
[22:15] <fsphil> hehe
[22:15] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:16] <Steve_2E0VET> but it will soon, because i want to modify it to send the data via rtty, been on it 2 weeks now
[22:16] <Steve_2E0VET> dont suppose there is a wiki that tells me how to format it for rtty
[22:17] <fsphil> pretty much that
[22:17] <Steve_2E0VET> cheers
[22:17] <fsphil> there's some code in there too, but it's mostly the job of snprintf()
[22:18] <Steve_2E0VET> i tried to use marks code (learnt hell of a lot mind0, but it goes round in a loop and cannot work out why?
[22:19] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> think he's gone to sleep
[22:20] <fsphil> or not sitting on the internet on a friday night :)
[22:21] <ibanezmatt13> most likely :)
[22:22] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: in most cases stepping through the code by eye can find many a bug, or reveal why it may be getting stuck somewhere
[22:23] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, agreed, but with things like this there are other things to take into accoun io think such as timings
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> take a look at this code, this is the problem, and it gets in the loop because the value is never true
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> while (get_ubx_ack(set_nav5) != true) {
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> println(F("false"));
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> delay(1000);
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> }
[22:25] <ibanezmatt13> where is your antenna?
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> mine?
[22:26] <ibanezmatt13> I tried to get GPS info on a clear night and I couldn't. tried it the next morning, perfect
[22:26] <fsphil> yea that's a bad loop to have
[22:26] <Steve_2E0VET> yes ive had that
[22:26] <fsphil> better in that case to use a for() loop
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[22:26] <fsphil> with a counter that limits how many times it tries to set the mode
[22:26] <Steve_2E0VET> ive tried taking the code out but can ever get any sat locks
[22:26] <fsphil> odd
[22:27] <ibanezmatt13> right, I'm off. Night night! :
[22:27] <fsphil> you really shouldn't have to do anything to the gps to get it returning positions
[22:27] <fsphil> (software wise)
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[22:27] <Steve_2E0VET> night
[22:27] <fsphil> it pretty much powers up in a working state
[22:27] <fsphil> assuming a good signal
[22:27] <Steve_2E0VET> send_ubx(set_nav5, sizeof(set_nav5)/sizeof(uint8_t));
[22:27] <Steve_2E0VET> thats the code before it
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> this is the full code
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> /send flight mode command
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> send_ubx(set_nav5, sizeof(set_nav5)/sizeof(uint8_t));
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> //Get acknowledgment
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> while (get_ubx_ack(set_nav5) != true) {
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> println(F("false"));
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> delay(1000);
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> }
[22:28] <Steve_2E0VET> maybe it should continue sending it until it gets an ack
[22:28] <fsphil> not a great bit of code overall
[22:28] <Willdude123> Hi
[22:29] <fsphil> yea that, plus a limit on the number of goes
[22:29] <Steve_2E0VET> well it means absolutly nothing to me
[22:29] <fsphil> no bit of code should ever be able to block
[22:29] <fsphil> forever
[22:29] <arko> ello
[22:29] <Steve_2E0VET> but it seems that if it doesnt get an ack it doesnt get sat lock
[22:29] <fsphil> something else is going on there
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[22:29] <fsphil> the nav mode by default is fine for operating on the ground
[22:30] <Steve_2E0VET> text reads --- This is important - we don't want it dropping out at 18km or similar!
[22:30] <fsphil> yea the default nav mode doesn't work above 18km
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[22:31] <fsphil> quite why the ublox doesn't detect it's up that high and do this automatically I'm not sure :)
[22:31] <Willdude123> Steve_2E0VET fun fact for you, in german, I don't care is 'this is sausage to me'
[22:31] <Steve_2E0VET> so the code is needed, so would be pointless saying try it 10 times, if it fails forget it
[22:32] <fsphil> worse if it blocks forever
[22:32] <fsphil> then you never hear from it again
[22:32] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, at least you know its not working lol
[22:32] <fsphil> even if you failed to set the nav mode, it still works below 18km
[22:32] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil - agreed
[22:33] <fsphil> in my own code I just set the nav mode every minute or so
[22:33] <fsphil> and I don't retry if it fails - it's programmed just to transmit an error message on the radio
[22:33] <fsphil> so I get some idea of what's going on from the ground
[22:34] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, and you just transmit it via rtty
[22:34] <fsphil> the error? yea
[22:35] <Steve_2E0VET> ok i might change this code a little and see what happens i am desperate to get something launched
[22:35] <fsphil> not sure why it was failing to get a lock though -- probably something else going on, bad positions of the satellites maybe
[22:36] <fsphil> it does sometimes take a while getting a lokc
[22:36] <fsphil> lock*
[22:36] <fsphil> I've seen it working within a minute, and other times taking 20 minutes
[22:36] <Steve_2E0VET> when that happenes i always try the virgin code from the website and that always seems to work
[22:36] <Steve_2E0VET> now thats when i think i have a problem
[22:37] <Willdude123> Virgin code? I don't think any code has had sex.
[22:37] <fsphil> DNA is a code
[22:37] <Willdude123> Well, actually there are certain machines, actually let's not go there.
[22:37] <fsphil> indeed
[22:39] <Willdude123> Unless you want me to.
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, will this code sort it
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> /Get acknowledgment
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> int error_get_ubx =0
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> while (get_ubx_ack(set_nav5) != true) {
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> error_get_ubx++;
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> if (error_get_ubx >=10) {break;}
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> println(F("false"));
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> delay(1000);
[22:40] <Steve_2E0VET> }
[22:40] <Willdude123> Pastebin please
[22:41] <Steve_2E0VET> sorry forgot will do next time
[22:42] <fsphil> yea that would break after 10
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[22:45] <mattbrejza> what happened to griffinbot?
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[22:45] <Steve_2E0VET> this is a new error on me expected primary-expression before ',' token
[22:45] <mfa298> it seems to have been mia for a while
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[22:46] Action: Willdude123 slaps griffonbot
[22:47] Action: Willdude123 slaps him harder
[22:47] <arko> giffonbot got drunk
[22:47] <arko> he's passed out bro
[22:47] <arko> call the paramedics
[22:47] Action: Willdude123 keeps slapping him so hard that he felt so good
[22:47] Action: Willdude123 whips griffonbot
[22:47] <arko> well this took at turn
[22:48] Action: Willdude123 whips him harder and harder until, let's not go there.
[22:48] Action: mfa298 calls the men in white coats for Willdude123
[22:48] Action: arko leaves the scene
[22:48] <Willdude123> Only griffonbot is that way inclined.
[22:49] <Willdude123> He's the one they should be after.
[22:49] Action: Willdude123 handcuffs griffonbot
[22:50] <Willdude123> Anyway
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> pervert
[22:54] <Willdude123> I'm not.
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/A1_House_of_Quality.png
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> some lulz for everyone
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[22:56] <bertrik> is that some kind of bingo card, or something you can print out and glue together?
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah i think its a buzzword bingo card
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[23:35] <cyclops> hi!
[23:38] <arko> hello
[23:39] <wrea> hi
[23:39] <arko> jello
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[23:40] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/8kXUecc.jpg
[23:40] <arko> hahaha
[23:41] <arko> sharknado
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[23:43] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[23:45] <wrea> rofl
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[23:59] <Laurenceb_> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2724064/
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> its real
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> omfgwut
[23:59] <arko> um yeah
[00:00] --- Sat Aug 10 2013