highaltitude.log.20130807

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[00:25] <MrCraig> NigeyS still frequent?
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[00:34] <SpeedEvil> I don't have logs, but I think definitely in the last two weeks
[00:34] <MrCraig> Thanks SpeedEvil
[00:35] <MrCraig> I happen to be sitting on a Meganut pcb and was considering assembling it.
[00:36] <SpeedEvil> it might have been sooner, I'm not sure
[00:37] <MrCraig> ok - I'll keep checking in until I catch him. Could do with a parts list because all I have is PCB labels to go on. I also think the HX-1 would make a drop-in replacement for the NTX-2 (pin-outs are *almost* the same)
[00:37] <MrCraig> I have a constant connection here, I'll keep checking :)
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[06:24] <WillTablet> Hi
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[07:09] <G7PMO_Kev> Morning all, looking rather foggy for my launch this morning :)
[07:09] <fsphil> oooh wonder what effect that might have
[07:13] <x-f> good morning
[07:14] <G7PMO_Kev> i dont know, the air is heavier, does that make the balloon go up quicker? Or does the water in the air condense on the balloon and payload and make them heavyer :)
[07:14] <G7PMO_Kev> morning x-f
[07:14] <G7PMO_Kev> off to sort a few bits, biab
[07:15] <fsphil> it's the water condensing on the balloon that might slow it down
[07:15] <fsphil> either by weight, or cooling the gas inside the balloon down
[07:15] <fsphil> or both :)
[07:19] <G7PMO_Kev> mmmm, a few extra squirts time :)
[07:20] <fsphil> hey don't listen to me, I've never launched a foil :)
[07:26] <G7PMO_Kev> me neither - yet :)
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[07:30] <gonzo_> I've done a few, but non have had the wanted flight dynamics
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[07:33] <G0TDJ_AFK> 'Morning Guys :-)
[07:33] <fsphil> morning!
[07:33] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[07:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> And what a..... lovely morning it is
[07:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Has anyone worked out who JFS is yet?
[07:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll take that as a no then :-)
[07:37] <fsphil> hmm
[07:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> JFS is on the tracker now
[07:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK It's an old trace but it's there along with GOG-HAB and HABTRK
[07:41] <fsphil> there used to be someone in channel with the nick JFS
[07:41] <G7PMO_Kev> right, foil filled, and fog is clearing :)
[07:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK fsphil
[07:42] <G7PMO_Kev> http://www.northamptonsailingclub.org/index.asp?selection=Weather&subsel=Pitsford%20Cam
[07:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: When are you launching?
[07:42] <G7PMO_Kev> 10am BST is the plan
[07:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cool, thanks
[07:45] <Upu> sorted spacenear.us for your G7PMO_Kev
[07:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Upu
[07:46] <Upu> morning Steve
[07:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Do you happen to know who JFS is?
[07:46] <Upu> Yes
[07:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Would you pass them on my details please?
[07:46] <Upu> he's a teacher
[07:46] <Upu> doing a launch
[07:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh cool
[07:47] <Upu> he comes on here occasionally
[07:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> Very close to me, relatively. I might be able to hlep out
[07:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> help even...
[07:47] <Upu> Greg
[07:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll watch out for him.
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[07:52] <G7PMO-I> Testing123. :)
[07:53] <G7PMO-I> Cool, irc via 3G. :)
[07:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Glad it's working for you
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[07:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is this your first launch G7PMO-I ?
[07:54] <G7PMO_Kev> no, second...
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[07:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good oh.
[07:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll try and track but I fear it's a little too far
[07:54] <G7PMO_Kev> did one last year, traveled 150 miles and landed 2 miles out to sea :)
[07:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nice one
[07:54] <G7PMO_Kev> where are you Steve?
[07:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Just south of the R.Thames in Crayford near Dartford
[07:55] <G7PMO_Kev> cool, near (south of) damyns Hall
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[07:55] <G7PMO_Kev> I fly light aircraft - so my geography is based around airports :)
[07:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Not sure where that is but I'll look it up. Do you know Mike G1KOT by any chance?
[07:57] <G7PMO_Kev> I dont think so? flying, or location connection?
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[07:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Flying, probably from the same aerodrome (looked it up)
[07:58] <G7PMO_Kev> from Damyns hall, or from Sywell (which is my local up here)
[07:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Unsure, if you don't know the call then probably not :-)
[07:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyway, yes, not really too far from there soutward
[07:58] <G7PMO_Kev> right, must get dressed , biab :)
[07:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
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[08:07] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
[08:09] <HixWork> hi ibanezmatt13
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[08:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi ibanezmatt13 and HixWork I was AFK
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> hello :)
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> do you know which pins on the atmega328 tqfp i can use as an analog input? I'm just looking at a picture now and there are a few pins labelled A0, A1, up to A7. Are those an ins?
[08:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> IIRC you can configure certain pins to do that. Have you got the datasheet?
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> sorry about the url:
[08:11] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/image/data/tutorial/arduino-hardcore/atmega328-tqfp-arduino-pinout.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/arduino-atmega328-pinout&h=520&w=500&sz=57&tbnid=rCETnLvnZAdhXM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=87&zoom=1&usg=__zkhDW8ZxERaEM5g7AjDjT6r9KEw=&docid=08_IK2TU2IOmsM&sa=X&ei=AQACUsSaEMSS7QaxnoCgCA&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAQ&dur=432
[08:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'm happy to use any pin that does it GOTDJ_Steve
[08:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> I@m not a great expert but I'll take a look
[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> thanks. I'm sure its simple but i'm in eagle so I'm trying to get my schematic right first time :)
[08:13] <HixWork> red ones ibanezmatt13
[08:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Looking at that diagram C0/1/2/3 are all capable
[08:14] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13: http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/PinMapping168
[08:14] <ibanezmatt13> okie dokie, thanks a lot :)
[08:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, A 1-7
[08:14] <chrisstubbs> same for the 8/168/328 i think
[08:14] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thank you
[08:14] <ibanezmatt13> morning chrisstubbs
[08:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hi Chris
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[08:15] <chrisstubbs> Morning
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[08:15] <ibanezmatt13> I was wondering chrisstubbs why on that schematic from last night a 3 pin screw terminal was used for the battery in and out?
[08:16] <chrisstubbs> Yeah
[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> In the one I'm making now I've got a two pin, was just curious
[08:16] <chrisstubbs> Yeah not sure why 3 pins was used
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[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> ah well. I'm also hooking a few analog sensors upto
[08:17] <chrisstubbs> Cool :)
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> up to*
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[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> If I put an LED between TX and ground via say a 220 resistor, would that work for me seeing my data transmission.
[08:22] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[08:23] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[08:23] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[08:23] <mikestir> put it between TX and Vcc, because the serial idles high so that way round will be easier to spot a tx
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> just thought of a problem, I'm not using serial for the NTX2
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> So I'd only see it flash every now and again
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> Perhaps if I put it on the digital pin I'm controlling the NTX2 with?
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> Would that work
[08:26] <mikestir> yes
[08:26] <mikestir> is this arduino or rpi?
[08:26] <ibanezmatt13> arduino
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[08:26] <mikestir> so 5V rail?
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[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> well, it's not really.It's an ATMEGA based tracker
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> Which will run at 3v3 itself
[08:27] <mikestir> ok. I was just going to suggest keeping the led current under about 5 mA. 220R is a bit low
[08:27] <mikestir> it's not too bad at 3v3 but I'd still make it more like 390R
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> 390?
[08:28] <ibanezmatt13> ok :)
[08:29] <mikestir> I take it you know how I calculated that?
[08:30] <HixWork> wouldn't an LED on TX line bork the voltage divider for the shift?
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> yeah mikestir
[08:30] <mikestir> ok
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
[08:30] <ibanezmatt13> good thinking
[08:30] <mikestir> it should be fine if it's on the output pin of the micro - that is a low impedance point
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[08:31] <ibanezmatt13> I could in my code just do what I'm doing with the NTX2 pin but for another digital pin
[08:32] <HixWork> breadboard the circuit with an LED and see what effect it has on the NTX2 TX
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> will do
[08:32] <mikestir> is your schematic online somewhere?
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[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> nah,started a new one
[08:35] <mikestir> is it just avr output->potential divider->ntx2?
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[08:37] <mikestir> if you connect the led to the avr then it will be ok. it won't affect the current through the divider appreciably (as long as you don't overload the output)
[08:37] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, I'll do that then
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[08:39] <G7PMO_Kev> right, setting out, only 10 mins up the road to launch site, will come back on irc if I can get 3g from launch site
[08:39] <G7PMO_Kev> 07867 825847 if anyone needs me
[08:40] <fsphil> I have some home insurance to sell, might phone you later
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[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir: I connect the LED between the AVR output and GND as it's not serial?
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[08:42] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13: LED to gnd will mean on is on and off is off
[08:43] <chrisstubbs> led to vcc will mean on is off and off is on
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> of course it will, nevermind )
[08:43] <mikestir> it's still serial even though it's emulated (unless you inverted the shift for some reason)
[08:43] <mikestir> for normal serial it idles high, so if you wanted the LED to be off when no data was being sent then you'd connect between the pin and vcc
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[08:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Got you on Tracker Kevin
[08:52] <gonzo_> bugger, forgot there was a launch. Didn't switch the kit on at home
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[09:01] <HixWork> Anyone got experience of x-chat2 [win] through a proxy? Can't seem to get it to connect
[09:01] <HixWork> mfa298: good shout on the 443-22 shout for socks. Works fine now :)
[09:07] <G7PMO-I> At the launch site....
[09:08] <G7PMO-I> Blimin road was closed!
[09:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> OOoops
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[09:13] <craag> Any predictions for this pico? I'm keen to try out gqrx with the fcdpp!
[09:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Waiting to see the prediction on the tracker Philip
[09:16] <G7PMO-I> Waiting for gps lock......
[09:22] Action: G0TDJ_Steve Memories of bacon rolls...
[09:22] <HixWork> any ideas on this error? SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3 Proxy traversal failed
[09:23] <HixWork> x-chat2 seems to connect to my server but will not allow IRC to load
[09:23] <craag> Lock looks to be taking a while. Lack of bacon?
[09:23] <HixWork> the web interface is pants too
[09:23] <gonzo_> new TLA for HABing. MTBB, mean time between bacon
[09:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> TLA ? FLA
[09:25] <gonzo_> Silly me!
[09:25] <gonzo_> Or is that an ETLA?
[09:25] <db_g6gzh> ETLA
[09:25] <db_g6gzh> snap!
[09:25] <gonzo_> you win that hand
[09:25] <HixWork> $GNBBL GPS need bacon before lock
[09:25] <Darkside> bahaha
[09:25] <G7PMO-I> Argh, no gps lock, going to reset and try it again
[09:25] <G7PMO-I> Lol
[09:26] <gonzo_> I found that it helped speed lock if the rx/ant was held in a fixed pos, looking up with the balloon held out off the way of the sky view
[09:27] <gonzo_> tracket on it';s own, on the patio table, few mins to lock. With the balloon waving about above it, half an hr+
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[09:28] <mfa298> HixWork: good news
[09:30] <G7PMO-I> Yea, is not tied to the balloon yet, but is a chip antenna with a less than perfect gps design, has always taken a few tens of sentences to get a lock
[09:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Which GPS module is it ?
[09:32] <db_g6gzh> It seems a while since I've tracked a HAB but I'm not home today and don't have suitable kit here so will just have to follow on spacenear.
[09:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> There in spirit db_g6gzh
[09:35] <db_g6gzh> Yes, father's 90th birthday rightly takes precedence.
[09:35] <G7PMO-I> Max6
[09:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Right ..
[09:37] <G7PMO-I> Sentence 35, it has the time and getting random lat and longs,
[09:37] <G7PMO-I> Just a waiting game...
[09:38] <G7PMO-I> Next pico tracker either has battery backup or EEPROM for almanac data or better gps aerial!
[09:38] <mattbrejza> do you hjave a pic of the tracker/pcb to hand?
[09:39] <G7PMO-I> And better ground shield design......
[09:40] <craag> I haven't had issues with MAX6 + chip antenna
[09:41] <gonzo_> the max6/chip I found would get time in a few seconds. Full positional lock was much slower. An uninterrupted sky view seems key
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[09:41] <G7PMO-I> Yea, look at the link in the launch announcement, can't easily cut and paste here
[09:41] <gonzo_> a slow lock does at least allow bacon time
[09:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> ;-)
[09:42] <craag> I get lock in <60s on my windowsill
[09:42] <craag> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:jimbob:launch3
[09:42] <craag> Yeah... that PCB is not optimal
[09:42] <craag> http://i.imgur.com/AT0nboq.jpg
[09:43] <G7PMO-I> The tracker is currently on the ground facing the sky with a clear view....
[09:43] <G7PMO-I> Link to habtrk from that URL which has pics
[09:43] <G7PMO-I> No bacon in the field!
[09:43] <craag> pic is on the imgur link above
[09:45] <gonzo_> what's wrong with that board, GPS ant wise?
[09:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Is the fact that it's on the ground an issue?
[09:45] <craag> There's ground planes alongside the antenna
[09:45] <number10> do you have insulation close to antenna
[09:45] <G7PMO-I> Yea, I tried to give my self lots of options but still kept it small so ended up with a bit of a squashed rats nest
[09:45] <G7PMO-I> It will get there, well has every other time, just takes time.
[09:45] <craag> They'll shield it slightly in that direction.
[09:46] <gonzo_> are those ants designed not to run against ground?
[09:46] <craag> gonzo_: They might be, but it's still going to reduce performance
[09:47] <gonzo_> may be completely detuned then. A bit of 1/4wave wire would prob be better there
[09:47] <gonzo_> just put on the baord in place of the chip
[09:47] <craag> The best way to do it I believe is like this: https://www.thecraag.com/images/f/ff/CRAAG2_r1_image_12_01_13.png
[09:47] <gonzo_> if it's taken agest justv to get time lock, it does not bode well for proper lock
[09:48] <craag> Further away from ground planes is always better, but ends up with a longer PCB
[09:48] <mattbrejza> http://www.johansontechnology.com/images/stories/ip/rf-antennas/antenna_1575at43a0040.pdf
[09:48] <mattbrejza> should be 1mm from the GP
[09:48] <gonzo_> does the chip require ground at the dar end, or is that joint just for mounting?
[09:48] <craag> just for mounting
[09:48] <mattbrejza> pin 2 is NC
[09:49] <gonzo_> poss just lift the chip and stand it on one end?
[09:49] <craag> It's basically a drastically-shortened 1/4 wave
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[09:49] <craag> could do, mechanically more brittle of course.
[09:49] <gonzo_> if they have a soldering iron on sit, then poss just a 1/4wave wire would be worth doing
[09:50] <craag> gonzo_: That's what Leo does!
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[09:50] <gonzo_> thinking about onsite fix to get them flying
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[09:51] <craag> gonzo_: If you could load the offline assist data into the MCU the day before, then squirt that at the ublox on startup, that would reduce lock time to a few seconds.
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[09:52] <gonzo_> if it can't get lock in a sensible time, then keeping lock is not going to be reliable
[09:53] <gonzo_> (for recerence to the site boys, 1/fwave at GPS is 4.5cm)
[09:54] <craag> gonzo_: Looks like this! http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Images/3.jpg
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[09:55] <gonzo_> I was going to do similar with a dead bug'ed max6
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[09:58] <HixWork> working?
[10:02] <craag> Doesn't appear to be
[10:02] <craag> oh
[10:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOCK!
[10:03] <craag> on map!
[10:03] <eroomde> pcb house cocked up, overnight laser-cut stainless solder stencil recommendations please
[10:03] <mattbrejza> that one in ireland?
[10:04] <HixWork> pcb train eroomde
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[10:04] <HixWork> or did they bork it up
[10:05] <gonzo_> hab and wind turbines. Interesting mix
[10:05] <eroomde> hmm yes pcbtrain
[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Could be some of the GPS problems ?
[10:08] <Laurenceb> eroomde: has to be stainless?
[10:08] <bertrik> what's the status of HABTRK?
[10:08] <Laurenceb> shrudlu on #electronics will whack you off PET
[10:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> Awaiting launch bertrik
[10:09] <craag> GPS lock is looking intermittent though
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[10:09] <eroomde> Laurenceb, yes
[10:10] <HixWork> weird, x-chat2 will not connect but nettalk with same settings is fine?!?
[10:10] <gonzo_> what's the url for the submitted strings?
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[10:10] <HixWork> anyway - I'm back on a client again :D
[10:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ Is this what you mean gonzo_
[10:11] <mattbrejza> or /ept/ for past flights gonzo_
[10:11] <Laurenceb> eroomde: you could ask him - dunno what cutters he has nowadays
[10:11] <craag> Ah intermittent issues appear to be intermittent upload
[10:12] <craag> Not getting any fix_invalid strings
[10:12] <eroomde> Laurenceb, s'ok, found someone
[10:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> craag: Weak GSM?
[10:12] <eroomde> just need it stainless and reliable and here tomorrow
[10:12] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: Most likely
[10:12] <gonzo_> thanks. Did look at that, but thought it was a script
[10:13] <gonzo_> think previously I've seen one with just the pile of sentences and some login/out info
[10:13] <Joel_re> ooh an rfmb22
[10:13] <Joel_re> interesting
[10:13] <Joel_re> is that the main tranmitter?
[10:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Why interesting Joel_re ?
[10:14] <mfa298> hmmm, that's something else the balloonnews map didn't have, correlation between launch site locations and 3G coverage!
[10:14] <Joel_re> I thought everyone uses the NTX2 modules
[10:14] <craag> Joel_re: RFM22 modules are lighter, smaller, but less reliable.
[10:14] <Joel_re> Im interested to see how this performs
[10:14] <Joel_re> ok
[10:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> I may be wrong Joel_re but I think the RFM22b is used on picos and the NXT2 is on the larger balloons - Am I correct people?
[10:14] <gonzo_> also, the keted signal from the rfm is not as clean
[10:15] <number10> eroomde: screens @ dek.com -- if you get them the data by 12:30 they will courrier
[10:15] <craag> G0TDJ_Steve: Generally yes.
[10:15] <Joel_re> ok
[10:15] <eroomde> G0TDJ_Steve, no strictly true, but in as much as the rfm is a bit lighter then yes, it's usually used on picos
[10:15] <number10> eroomde: tel 01305 208 496
[10:15] <eroomde> but people also sometimes use them on bigger balloons
[10:15] <eroomde> and picos sometimes use other things
[10:15] <craag> Some people use RFM22 for frequency agility reasons on big balloons.
[10:15] <eroomde> number10, oh great, thanks
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cool
[10:15] <eroomde> that's a very good tip
[10:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> Watching these launches is very educational
[10:17] <Joel_re> ^^
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[10:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its off
[10:18] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yep
[10:19] <craag> Away from the turbines :)
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[10:21] <gonzo_> could have been a bit choppy up there is they went South East !
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[10:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: Can you confirm freq as 434.150MHz please?
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[10:23] <GMT> didn't he say last night that it was nearer to 434.138?
[10:23] <G7pmo-I> Payload in air
[10:23] <G7pmo-I> 434.1390 here
[10:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> I must not have been about: G7pmo-I Can you confirm freq please?
[10:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL Cheers
[10:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> RX Set, although I think terrain will be in the way.
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[10:26] <eroomde> nice if it lands in the peaks
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[10:26] <eroomde> good place for a rocovery hike
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[10:27] <eroomde> kettering is defined, in The Meaning of Liff, as the marks left on your skin after sitting on wicker furniture
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[10:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Erratic predictions...
[10:29] <eroomde> is it a pico?
[10:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah
[10:29] <eroomde> or is the ascent rate just for shiggles?
[10:29] <eroomde> ok
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[10:35] <gonzo_> should we add a new word to Liff: Wellingborough - the time spent holding a HAB, awaiting the GPS to gain lock.
[10:36] <G0TDJ_Steve> YEAH! :D
[10:38] <Nerdsville> Getting some decodes inbetween the neighbours annoying wireless weather station!
[10:40] <Nerdsville> around 434.141MHz on my FCDP+
[10:40] <daveake> gonzo_ That term used to be "The Lassen"
[10:41] <GMT> not even a trace on my waterfall display (in W London); rising v.slowly
[10:41] <G7PMO_Kev> right, home for a bit
[10:42] <G7PMO_Kev> love the definition of Wellingborough :)
[10:42] <gonzo_> I used to have the JUPITER, which was the +ve difference between the current draw of the GPS and that available from the PSU
[10:43] <G7PMO_Kev> going up nice and slowly - I might get a float at this rate
[10:44] <G7PMO_Kev> I did see -0.1ms at one point that scared me!
[10:44] <craag> 1.5 is nominal for a pico
[10:45] <G7PMO_Kev> nominal as in not enough, or nominal as in may or may not float from that?
[10:45] <craag> nominal as in probably won't float
[10:46] <G7PMO_Kev> ok,
[10:46] <craag> < 1 m/s have a chance of float I think.
[10:46] <ibanezmatt13> I know it might look a bit ridiculous but it's starting to take shape: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gehp8fzyh7bwbzn/norbuino.png
[10:46] <craag> But you never know!
[10:46] <gonzo_> the optimum for pico seems to be hardly any lift and hardly any payload weight
[10:46] <G7PMO_Kev> yea 38g is still a bit heavy
[10:47] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Looks neat, what's the bit up at the top?
[10:47] <gonzo_> my last was 0.6m/s and 35gm. No float
[10:47] <ibanezmatt13> err, a bit of a mess up :)
[10:47] <gonzo_> interesting bobbing about in the air currents though
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> craag: I tried to put in a load of vias and positioned the ground planes to avoid ground loops and to stop any rf leaking out
[10:49] <craag> btw ibanezmatt13 you can do PNG export from eagle.
[10:49] <ibanezmatt13> or right, didn't know that
[10:49] <craag> Right ok, what's the component at the top meant to be?
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> GPS antenna pads
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> to solder it on
[10:50] <craag> Ah I see! Low resolution is hiding some of the pads
[10:50] <ibanezmatt13> So the vias got a bit crazy and it looks a mess :)
[10:50] <HixWork> what's the RF connector from the NTX2??
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> err, SMA
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> yep, SMA
[10:51] <craag> vias look fine, not sure you need the whole isolated-ground thing though.
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> it'll still work with it though wont it?
[10:51] <craag> Yeah should do
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> (I cba changing it right now) :)
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[10:51] <ibanezmatt13> holy god, I just made a PCB
[10:52] <craag> :D
[10:52] <chrisg7ogx> no sigs on the south coast but the sun is burning through
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> apart from the clearance issue which I'll sort later, I think it's dine
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> done
[10:52] <ibanezmatt13> ok, off for lunch. Bye :)
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[10:52] <craag> If you ask up_u nicely he'll take a look
[10:52] <craag> argh too late
[10:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: Still on .139?
[10:53] <Nerdsville> getting loads of decodes, but doesn't seem to be sending all of them, getting error "send failed since rewinding data feed" any ideas?
[10:54] <craag> Nerdsville: Try restarting dl-fldigi
[10:54] <G7PMO_Kev> G0TDJ_Steve - 434.141680 on sdr and 434.1390 on a real radio here :)
[10:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Cheers G7PMO_Kev
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[10:54] <Nerdsville> sorry that should be "send failed since rewinding data feed failed" - have tried restart, getting same error craag
[10:56] <craag> Hmm can't help you there Nerdsville
[10:57] <Nerdsville> np craag, trying another restart
[10:58] <G7PMO_Kev> changing direction now with the upper winds....
[10:58] <G7PMO_Kev> I really like http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[10:59] <mattbrejza> hmm im getting that error too :/
[10:59] <G7PMO_Kev> im ok on 3.21.50
[11:00] <eroomde> G7PMO_Kev, yes it's v good ins't it
[11:00] <eroomde> also habhub.org/mt points to same
[11:00] <eroomde> friendly on mobile keyboards
[11:00] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
[11:02] <GMT> just started to get the signal here, now decoding
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[11:02] <chrisstubbs> HixWork: I had a delivery from yodel yesterday after your comment. The guy was pretty much boart.
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[11:04] <Nerdsville> version 3.21.50 here, seems to be about 1 in 3 telemetry messages failing
[11:06] <Nerdsville> mind you never had a s/n ratio of 32dB before
[11:06] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: Aquired a very weak signal on 434.143
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[11:06] <G4MYS-Andy> trackers may like to look at 434.143 'cause thats were i find it
[11:06] <LazyLeopard> That valley you're in sure doesn't help!
[11:07] <G7PMO_Kev> getting weaker signal here now
[11:07] <LazyLeopard> s/n about 30 dB here.
[11:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> LazyLeopard: Refering to me in the valley?
[11:07] <LazyLeopard> Yep ;)
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[11:07] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, it's a real PITA
[11:08] <G7PMO_Kev> about 40db on my main chimney mounted dipole via hab amp and sdr
[11:08] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: Any idea what your max alt will be?
[11:08] <G7PMO_Kev> getting better again in the handheld
[11:08] <G7PMO_Kev> G0TDJ_Steve - I recon 5k if it doesnt float
[11:09] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK I might get a better sig at >4k
[11:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: I have my friend Lee M6DRS about a mile away from me trying to decode too. He has a better sig than I do
[11:10] <Nerdsville> predictor shows it will go over my house, wonder if I will be able to see it? ;-)
[11:10] <G0TDJ_Steve> Nerdsville: It happened to me with CHEAPO
[11:10] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
[11:11] <GMT> Nerdsville: depends upon how high it is
[11:11] <craag> Nerdsville: Predictor is setup for 35km burst, not sure this one will reach you.
[11:11] <bertrik> any chance that HABTRK will reach an altitude of 10 km (that's my estimated height to be received at the netherlands)?
[11:12] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: Notice you have a French station receiving?
[11:12] <craag> bertrik: It won't.
[11:12] <craag> More likely to be ~5km
[11:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Recieving bits of sentances now
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[11:16] <G7PMO_Kev> so, if it bursts at 5k, just north of the gold club, then descends rapidly, keeps going North for a little, then the lower winds take it south again, it might land in the field behind my house :)
[11:16] <G7PMO_Kev> gold = golf :)
[11:16] <Nerdsville> the blue line on the tracker page is the predicted path? Looks like it will be heading in to waddington airspace?
[11:17] <G7PMO_Kev> Nerdsville - the blue line is based on it reaching 35km
[11:17] <G7PMO_Kev> it's a foil, so wont get that high
[11:17] <Nerdsville> thanks kev, still learning ;-)
[11:17] <G7PMO_Kev> np
[11:18] <Nerdsville> hope to learn more at the conference
[11:18] <g0hww> g'day. what freq is habtrk on? may as well have a listen while i build the latest dl-fldigi that i'm told i need?
[11:18] <cde> which conference?
[11:18] <craag> cde: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[11:18] <cde> thx
[11:19] <G7PMO_Kev> 434.1390 here
[11:19] <g0hww> cheers
[11:19] <G4MYS-Andy> try 434.139 to 143 +- dial
[11:20] <G4MYS-Andy> its got QSB so be patient your decode long before sence is made if the data
[11:20] <G7PMO_Kev> got a good set of listeners now for a week day, thanks guys....
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[11:21] <G4MYS-Andy> Kev ythres always someone around you put em up and well track em!
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[11:21] <G7PMO_Kev> :)
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[11:23] <G7PMO_Kev> down to 0.6ms vertical
[11:23] <G7PMO_Kev> m/s
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[11:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still only partial strings for both Lee and myself G7PMO_Kev
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[11:37] <G7PMO_Kev> G0TDJ_Steve - not sure why, getting a good few listeners now...
[11:37] <G7PMO_Kev> the bits you are getting, do they make sense?
[11:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: I think it's just the terrain in the way. Sig is grazing over the top
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[11:42] <G7PMO_Kev> well this isn't going to win any records for the most distance travelled by a hab :)
[11:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> G7PMO_Kev: So close...http://imgur.com/G2mklCO
[11:43] <G7PMO_Kev> indeed :)
[11:43] <G7PMO_Kev> what rx / aerial you got Steve?
[11:43] <G0TDJ_Steve> Diamond X50
[11:43] <Joel_re> G7PMO_Kev: can you share details about the dipole you have hooked to the hab amp?
[11:44] <mikestir> what's the dial freq?
[11:44] <G0TDJ_Steve> 434.143.56 here
[11:44] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
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[11:44] <mikestir> ta. I might need to turn my yagi around a bit
[11:45] <LazyLeopard> G0TDJ_Steve: Try slightly increasing the RTTY bandwidth?
[11:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[11:45] albal (5bd45e05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.212.94.5) joined #highaltitude.
[11:45] <gonzo_> the filter bandwidth
[11:45] <albal> hello has anyone here configured Dl Clien in Fldigi to work through a proxy?
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[11:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> Roger gonzo_ LazyLeopard Still not quite there. Pretty sure it's my naff posn
[11:46] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, the filter bandwidth. I have it set at about 100
[11:46] <G7PMO_Kev> Joel_re - it's something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-50-N-X-50-X50-DUAL-BAND-COLLINEAR-ANTENNA-AERIAL-144-440-/180885980308
[11:46] <GMT> I have my bandwidth set to just over 200
[11:46] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, it's in with the noise rather.
[11:46] <Joel_re> G7PMO_Kev: ok thanks
[11:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> My friend Lee M6DRS has just left for work and he's left his kit on. And it's decoding LOL
[11:48] <gonzo_> 70-80 is prob about optimal
[11:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> YAY At last, one decode :-)
[11:49] <gonzo_> if it's a strong signal, you can wind open the filters and the AFC can track easier
[11:49] <gonzo_> you may have to tweak the shift value if you are using the narrower filter settings
[11:50] <G7PMO_Kev> burst?
[11:50] <craag> yep
[11:50] <gonzo_> se, select custom shidt and adjust the shift value. (Think you have to hit save, before closing?)
[11:50] <craag> 4965m, very good!
[11:51] <craag> predictor will kick in in a moment
[11:51] <G7PMO_Kev> we said 5k :)
[11:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's doppler shifting like crazy
[11:51] <craag> exactly, spot on!
[11:51] <gonzo_> or the wind is blowing through and colling it
[11:52] <gonzo_> cooling
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[11:52] <gonzo_> single balloon on a chute?
[11:52] <craag> yep it'll be fast cooling cycles
[11:52] <G7PMO_Kev> no chute, single balloon
[11:53] <gonzo_> hard hats on lads!
[11:53] <craag> looks like it's detached from the balloon then
[11:53] <G7PMO_Kev> lol, 35gm payload :)
[11:53] <G7PMO_Kev> come on predictor...
[11:54] <g0hww> what is it, a bag of crisps?
[11:54] <G7PMO_Kev> hahah, wish it was, I coud get lunch when I find it!
[11:55] <mattbrejza> itll land somewhere between orlingbury and hannington i reckon
[11:55] <craag> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=8a45efb0b64e7aec05d9f6796966f44fb9856a4c
[11:56] <craag> yep matt is spot on
[11:56] <G7PMO_Kev> its turning south..
[11:57] <G7PMO_Kev> right, going to drive to orlingburry...
[11:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good luck with recovery G7PMO_Kev
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[11:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm gonna go find some lunch. See you guys later!
[11:58] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[11:59] <Joel_re> is that balloon not going any higher?
[11:59] <craag> Joel_re: It's on it's way down
[11:59] <G0TDJ_AFK> Joel_re: It's on it's way down
[11:59] <Joel_re> oh sorry
[11:59] <craag> snap
[11:59] <G0TDJ_AFK> ;-)
[11:59] <G0TDJ_AFK> Seeya
[11:59] <craag> you must have long arms to type AFK :P
[11:59] <G0TDJ_AFK> He he
[11:59] <craag> or jedi mind powers
[11:59] <craag> one of the two
[12:00] <G0TDJ_AFK> It is...my dessssstiny
[12:00] <Joel_re> so it burst near Wellingborough?
[12:01] <craag> G7PMO_Kev: It's coming back to you!
[12:01] <GMT> it burst just to the south of Kettering
[12:02] <Joel_re> ok
[12:02] <LazyLeopard> Geography in the way now. ;)
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[12:04] <GMT> looks like it will be in somebody's garden or on a roof
[12:05] <LazyLeopard> Lots of trees to choose from...
[12:05] <craag> treees :((
[12:05] <craag> or the church tower lol
[12:05] <GMT> hmmm... divine interventions
[12:06] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm. ;)
[12:06] <Joel_re> if its up a tree, you guys throw rocks at it?
[12:06] <Joel_re> considering the tree cannot be climbed up
[12:06] <craag> haha that's actually hit the church??
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[12:07] <GMT> Joel_re: sometimes a v.long fishing pole helps
[12:08] <Joel_re> ok
[12:08] <Joel_re> looks like someone retrieved it
[12:08] <GMT> ooo track still moving
[12:09] <mattbrejza> its gonan be stuck in something if its still being rx'ed
[12:09] <Joel_re> or someone is running away with the box
[12:10] <LazyLeopard> What's the wind like there?
[12:10] <GMT> very little wind
[12:10] <mfa298> I'd guess one of the trees between the church and road based on how that gps track is moving
[12:11] <HixWork> on the church roof?
[12:11] <Joel_re> so basically it isnt moving
[12:11] <Joel_re> ?
[12:11] <craag> Im wondering if it's on the side of the church, so having GPS 'canyon' issues.
[12:11] <GMT> welll, difficult to say ... waiting to see the chase-car appear on the map
[12:11] <mfa298> Joel_re: the tracks now are probably due to gps errors
[12:12] <Joel_re> yeah altitude seems to shift between 60-45m
[12:12] <mfa298> I'd certainly reckon close to the church as that looks like a bit more gps error than normal
[12:13] <craag> wth
[12:13] <craag> that's a long way
[12:13] <G4MYS-Andy> gps noise?
[12:13] <craag> yeah, never seen that much from a max-6 before though
[12:14] <mfa298> interesting those points at 0m altitude
[12:14] <craag> conspiracy theory: the church is a concealed miltary gps jammer
[12:14] <G4MYS-Andy> at least you can search a church yard without being yelled at!
[12:14] <Joel_re> having two gps modules would be interesting
[12:14] <Joel_re> two/three
[12:15] <craag> Joel_re: I've considered it, then having PDOP-weighted averaging
[12:15] <craag> But the extra money isn't really worth it
[12:15] <Joel_re> I guess yeah
[12:15] <G4MYS-Andy> make it four to be sure!
[12:16] <craag> Oh but you want one for each corner of the payload box, so couldn't possibly use less than 6! ;)
[12:16] <mfa298> could be interesting to correlate the extremeties of the gps position against recorded altitude. The points to the E looked to be 0m, several of the points to the W were nearer 200m (the the points by the church more like 130m
[12:17] <GMT> chase car has arrived
[12:17] <mfa298> chase car appears to have arrived
[12:17] <mfa298> snap
[12:17] <GMT> snap
[12:17] <G7PMO-I> Right....
[12:18] <G7PMO-I> Off to find 2 inch square of polystyrene in a grave yard. :)
[12:18] <craag> good luck!
[12:19] <mfa298> hopefully it's not coloured grey
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[12:19] <craag> Joel_re: Also GPS error can be due to atmospheric distortions, that'll turn up identical in both receivers anyway.
[12:19] <craag> DGPS is what you want for extra ccuracy.
[12:19] <craag> *accuracy
[12:19] <PH3V> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swiftnav/piksi-the-rtk-gps-receiver/description
[12:19] <Joel_re> hmm
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[12:20] <craag> lol 500mw = low power consumption
[12:22] <Joel_re> the car used some un mapped road or it was too fast for gps to keep up
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[12:23] <craag> PH3V: Thanks, very interesting stuff.
[12:23] <craag> Would be cool to fly one of those, with 50hz position updates you'd have every wobble and vibration mapped.
[12:24] <craag> Would be a challenge with the uplink from the RTK receiver.
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[12:26] <SpeedEvil> Also - as Laurenceb has gone on about before - with advanced enough GPS receivers - you can do altimetry.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> That is - you receive the ground-bounce.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> And measure the delay.
[12:27] <PH3V> craag: no tnx. Indeed, interesting stuff .. but .. "Low cost : $900 for a complete RTK system" Low cost :-)
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[12:27] <craag> I've seen real RTK systems though, and $900 is low-cost in comparison!
[12:28] <UpuWork> craag it only works when you have two of them one on the ground in constant contact
[12:28] <craag> Obviously I wouldn't pay for it
[12:28] <UpuWork> so £1800
[12:28] <UpuWork> $1800
[12:28] <craag> Get the Uni to!
[12:28] <craag> Ah ok
[12:28] <G7PMO-I> No obvious sign of it, but the car central locking won't work so def close!
[12:28] <mattbrejza> one is $500
[12:28] <mattbrejza> two is $900
[12:28] <craag> $900 for a complete RTK system
[12:28] <PH3V> You need two
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> Or a nearby reference station
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[12:29] <eroomde> the reference station needs to communicate with this somehow
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> UpuWork: Also - you don't need constant contact - if you just want to later recover the path
[12:29] <Laurenceb> egnos is pretty good
[12:29] <eroomde> i think f was proposing xbee as the communication mechanism
[12:29] <Laurenceb> i can walk down the road and detect each footstep
[12:29] <craag> UpuWork: Yep, as I said, uplink would be a challenge!
[12:30] <Laurenceb> from altitude wobble
[12:30] <craag> Not sure what data rate it needs, datasheet and docs are timing out :(
[12:30] <eroomde> you can get that well enough just from vanilla L1 with doppler velocity (walking)
[12:30] <Laurenceb> true
[12:30] <Laurenceb> this was position
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> but its kalman'd i guess
[12:31] <eroomde> zackly
[12:31] <Laurenceb> ublox5 with egnos enabled
[12:31] <UpuWork> what you need is Ed's GPS
[12:31] <eroomde> everybody needs my gps
[12:31] <eroomde> they probably just don't want it on their hab
[12:31] <Laurenceb> try turning egnos on/off, massive improvement
[12:31] <UpuWork> you know what I'd recant on my usual rejection of heavy payloads :)
[12:32] <craag> Yeah I've noticed less walk on the max6 with egnos.
[12:32] <UpuWork> anyway chop chop Ed
[12:32] <UpuWork> apparently orbit is due in 2020
[12:32] Action: Laurenceb is ordering at least two swift nav units
[12:32] <UpuWork> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/07/skylon_study/
[12:32] <Laurenceb> pity spartan is closed source ?
[12:32] <Laurenceb> i cant see the vhdl anywhere
[12:32] <eroomde> Laurenceb, do you know who is behind this gps?
[12:32] <Laurenceb> of course
[12:32] <eroomde> good
[12:32] <eroomde> just checking
[12:33] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:33] <eroomde> i'm sure if you asked
[12:33] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:33] <mattbrejza> also verilog > vhdl
[12:33] <Laurenceb> its not too hard to do anyway
[12:33] <eroomde> yes, the gps is low down the list of priorities atm
[12:33] <Laurenceb> guessing theres not much on there
[12:33] <eroomde> compared to engine stuff
[12:33] <Laurenceb> with a stm32f4, you can do anything with just a little hardware correlation acceleration
[12:34] <eroomde> but we did get it working a 1000 positions per sec, and that would have cm accuracy and resolution with the L1+L2 front end
[12:34] <Laurenceb> im convinced you can do pure software gps on stm32f4
[12:34] <Laurenceb> but other things consire to stop me working on it :(
[12:34] <eroomde> maybe, but why go to all the effort of making a not very good gps with every optimisation?
[12:34] <Laurenceb> theres 180mhz stm32f4 now which helps a bit
[12:35] <Laurenceb> low power
[12:35] <eroomde> english fail, why go to all the massive optimisation effort it would need, just to end up with a not very good gps?
[12:35] <Laurenceb> itd hardly suffer
[12:35] <eroomde> it probably wouldn't be lower power at all
[12:35] <Laurenceb> i was benchmarking 2bit samples
[12:35] <Laurenceb> sure
[12:35] <Laurenceb> but ~100mW
[12:35] <Laurenceb> rather than 500
[12:35] <eroomde> compared to, say, absolutely every single other modern gps unit ever
[12:36] <eroomde> an M4 running flat out is going to be crazily thirsty compared to a ublox doing all the correlation on an asic
[12:36] <Laurenceb> course
[12:36] <Laurenceb> wonder if itd be possible to power optimise the swoift nav system
[12:36] <Laurenceb> with a much lower powered fpga
[12:36] <Laurenceb> or even cpld
[12:37] <eroomde> Upu, i'm completely not involved with any of that. that's just paper studies to keep other people busy
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[12:37] <UpuWork> ok
[12:37] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:38] <eroomde> TAS-I and kwinetikuoo
[12:38] <eroomde> QinetiQ even
[12:38] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:39] <eroomde> all these organisations that are optimised for turning money into entropy
[12:40] <LazyLeopard> Heh
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[12:42] <Laurenceb> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23601984
[12:42] <Laurenceb> epic lolling
[12:42] <Laurenceb> thats like winning at failing
[12:43] <mattbrejza> before i click it, is it the word competition thing?
[12:43] <mattbrejza> yep
[12:45] <Darkside> if only there was a LaTeX competition
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[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'm close to finishing this PCB but I have lots of errors on the DRC, though I'm not sure if they're that important or not.
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> Stop masks I believe are ok
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> Drill size?
[12:46] <Darkside> you ned to be careful about thatone
[12:46] <mattbrejza> Darkside: google says there is, but probably not what you orginally had in mind
[12:46] <Darkside> is it a drill size too small rror?
[12:46] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure, it just says drill size on nearly all vias
[12:47] <Darkside> hrm
[12:47] <Darkside> mayb your vias are too small
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[12:47] <Darkside> they should be, at absolut eminimum, 0.3mm hole size, 0.6mm pad size
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> on the white outline of a via, if they overlap is that bad?
[12:47] <mikestir> lol that guy deserves a medal for actually finding stuff through the ribbon bar
[12:47] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: yes
[12:47] <ibanezmatt13> that's the problem then
[12:47] <Darkside> thats a clearance error
[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> There are no clearance errors on the DRC
[12:48] <ibanezmatt13> Just drill size
[12:48] <GMT> I was forced to do an ITQ course a few months back, took about 15 minutes to do each exam when 90 mins was allowed!
[12:48] <Darkside> heh
[12:48] <Darkside> i had that problem with the foundation license exam here
[12:48] <Darkside> i finished all the questions in the reading time, spend 30 seconds of th actual exam time writing the answered in the answer sheet
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> yep, every single via has drill size problems Darkside. Not sure why really
[12:49] <Darkside> then had to wait half an hour before i could leave
[12:49] <GMT> One the first day ... we learnt how to clean our screen and mouse. That's all. Where's my 5K prize?
[12:49] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: what are the hole sizes?
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> 0.3
[12:49] <Darkside> hm
[12:49] <eroomde> what is the drill size you want and what is the drill size in the DRC configuration?
[12:49] <Darkside> make them bigger if you can
[12:49] <eroomde> the the latter is bigger than the former, there's your problem
[12:49] <Darkside> i think his DRC has 0.33mm minimum
[12:49] <ibanezmatt13> I didn't think I could configure that
[12:49] <mattbrejza> the default drc wants massive vias i seem to remember
[12:49] <Darkside> though 0.3mm isactually OK
[12:49] <eroomde> you can configure it
[12:50] <eroomde> in the drc config
[12:50] <Darkside> i'v done boards with 0.3mm vias
[12:50] <Darkside> and they are fine
[12:50] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, I'll do that then
[12:50] <ibanezmatt13> If I loaded the hackvana drc, would that work?
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it. I can't see the hackvana drc not allowing below 0.3 for the drill size
[12:51] <ibanezmatt13> Any idea where I can get the Hackvana DRC?
[12:51] <Darkside> its possibly its >0.3mm
[12:51] <Darkside> not >=0.3mm
[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> I could change them all to 0.33
[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> But that would take AGES :
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[12:52] <ibanezmatt13> Worth doing?
[12:53] <gonzo_> just back, how's HABTRK retreival going?
[12:53] <G7PMO-I> Got it. :)
[12:53] <G7PMO-I> Foil balloon all still attached and took ages to see it in a low tree
[12:53] <LazyLeopard> Where was it?
[12:53] <gonzo_> the track seems to average out to a tree by the road#
[12:53] <ibanezmatt13> Is there a way to set all vias to a certain size in one go???
[12:53] <G7PMO-I> Yup
[12:53] <gonzo_> ah good
[12:53] <gonzo_> those power lines cause a problem?
[12:54] <LazyLeopard> Good! Folks will be able tounlock their cars again. ;)
[12:54] <gonzo_> hehe, I was thinking about that situation, after yesterday's keyfob jamming conversation
[12:55] <G7PMO-I> Imgur.com/fW6Jaxj.jpeg
[12:55] <G7PMO-I> Gonzo - was close to power lines but had slid down through tree below them
[12:56] <G7PMO-I> Wouldn't have been good to nock the locals power out with the foil balloon. :)
[12:56] <G7PMO-I> Right, going home for bacon!
[12:56] <gonzo_> where did the balloon split/leak?
[12:56] <gonzo_> think the mains would win over a foil hab
[12:57] <G7PMO-I> All around the edge
[12:57] <gonzo_> yep, sounds fimiliar
[12:57] <gonzo_> nice to retrieve it in one piece to assess it
[12:57] <G7PMO-I> Display of sparks. :)
[12:57] <G7PMO-I> Might have been a good s
[12:58] <ibanezmatt13> ping chrisstubbs
[12:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to load the hackvana.dru file for the DRC and it won't work. It fails on line one of the DRU file :/
[12:59] <chrisstubbs> Hi
[12:59] <chrisstubbs> hmm
[13:00] <chrisstubbs> oh
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I hit tools, DRC, load, find the hackvana.dru and it fails
[13:00] <chrisstubbs> drc != dru
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> damn
[13:00] <HixWork> heh
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[13:00] <chrisstubbs> oh no, or does it
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> so there's a hackvana.drc?
[13:00] <HixWork> you got the drc ibanezmatt13 ?
[13:00] <ibanezmatt13> No DRC file, only a DRU
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> In the Q&A it says, run the DRC with the hackvana.DRU...
[13:01] <chrisstubbs> Yes I think the DRU file is for the drc
[13:01] <HixWork> yes it is
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I dropped it into Programsx86, Eagle, DRU
[13:01] <ibanezmatt13> And there's a default.dru in there too
[13:02] <HixWork> are you hitting the DRC button and loading from the option therein?
[13:02] <ibanezmatt13> Should work really
[13:02] <ibanezmatt13> I'm going to tools, drc, load, and it fails when I load it
[13:02] <chrisstubbs> did you get it from upu or hackvana, I got mine from upu?
[13:02] <ibanezmatt13> from hackvana's github
[13:02] <HixWork> it could be a very old one - he mostly uses KiCAD now iirc
[13:02] <HixWork> try upu's github
[13:03] <ibanezmatt13> okie dokie
[13:03] <ibanezmatt13> not sure where I'd find it on Upu's github
[13:03] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: the spanner tool on the left can be used to change the drill of a via
[13:03] <HixWork> actually sod that ibanezmatt13 http://goo.gl/ZqamD ere you go
[13:03] <ibanezmatt13> thanks HixWork :)
[13:03] <mattbrejza> set the new drill size, then one click on a via and its change
[13:03] <mattbrejza> d
[13:04] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I have lots and lots of vias :(
[13:04] <HixWork> also for vias, hide all other layers and then select vias and use the change button
[13:04] <mattbrejza> yea but it only takes one click rather than going thru menus
[13:04] <mattbrejza> oh i guess change all works too
[13:04] <ibanezmatt13> there's a change all function?
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[13:05] <ibanezmatt13> I'd like to change all my vias to 0.33 without going through each individually
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[13:05] <HixWork> Turn off all of your layers except the via layer. Group all of your vias
[13:05] <HixWork> together then use the change command to change the drill diameter for
[13:05] <HixWork> all of your vias. ibanezmatt13
[13:05] <HixWork> its a spanner iirc
[13:05] <ibanezmatt13> ah cool, I'll try it
[13:05] <mattbrejza> yea doing a group operation in eagle is bit weird
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> drill is set to 0.6
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> that's woerd
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> wierd
[13:06] <ibanezmatt13> Shall I change drill to 0.33 then?
[13:07] <HixWork> woerd is weird
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> this is pretty woerd :)
[13:07] <HixWork> i've had no problems with 0.3mm
[13:07] <HixWork> on my boards
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> wonder why it says 0.6 for drill
[13:07] <mattbrejza> i normally use 15mil i think
[13:07] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'm gonna change it to 0.3 then
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> ok, drill is 0.3, diameter is 0.7064...
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> dunno if that's ok
[13:09] <ibanezmatt13> also, I've still got drill size errors
[13:10] <ibanezmatt13> but saying that, I am less than the minimum of 0.33 I suppose so
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> WOO
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> running the hackvana.dru has resulted in a total of two errors, both stop mask :D
[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> YES!
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[13:11] <ibanezmatt13> thanks!
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> Do the boards have to be rectangular?
[13:13] <mattbrejza> nope
[13:13] <ibanezmatt13> Do I change the shape by just moving the white outline?
[13:14] <ibanezmatt13> I have a load of space around the antenna at the top
[13:14] <mattbrejza> use the dimension layer to define the outline
[13:15] <mattbrejza> so draw an outline around your design of whatever shape you want
[13:15] <HixWork> fillet the corners too ibanezmatt13 rounded corners make the world a better place :D
[13:15] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, so I use the polygon tool to draw the shape I'd like?
[13:15] <HixWork> yeah, make sure you are in dimension layer
[13:15] <mattbrejza> you can make it from multiple lines and arcs if you want too
[13:16] <mattbrejza> set the line width to 0 too
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give it a go
[13:16] <mattbrejza> btw what size is the board currently?
[13:16] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind 5x5 is cheapest
[13:16] <ibanezmatt13> I imagine more than that. Let me remember how to find the size...
[13:17] <mattbrejza> 10x5 being not too bad either
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> Something to do with coordinates
[13:17] <mattbrejza> the mouse position is the top left
[13:17] <mattbrejza> so assuming the origin is at the corner of the design
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> That cross doesn't move with my mouse as well
[13:17] <mattbrejza> mive the mouse to the edge
[13:17] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, so move mouse to the edge, and somehow I need to set the origin?
[13:18] <mattbrejza> the origin is that grey cross?
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, is that moveable?
[13:18] <mattbrejza> nope
[13:18] <mattbrejza> but
[13:18] <mattbrejza> there is a measure tool
[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds handy
[13:18] <mattbrejza> where you can set a 'temperoary' origin
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that. Where can I find this tool?
[13:19] <mattbrejza> second from top row i think
[13:19] <mattbrejza> yea 2nd row 2nd column
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> the one that says place a mark
[13:19] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:20] <mattbrejza> then that mark is the origin
[13:20] <mattbrejza> and a new set of figures appears in the top left
[13:20] <mattbrejza> one being xy distance, the other polar
[13:20] <ibanezmatt13> ok so I move the mouse to the opposite corner?
[13:20] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> this is confusing me a little
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I've set the origin
[13:22] <mattbrejza> ig you move the mouse over your new origin one set of numbers should be zero (or htere abouts)?
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> yes it is
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> there's an R bracket with two numbers and a P bracket with 2 numbers
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> Which should I look at
[13:23] <mattbrejza> R
[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> ok
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[13:24] <mattbrejza> (P gives angle and straight line distance
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> 58.42, 78.12
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> R ^^
[13:24] <mattbrejza> yea so the board is 58x78
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> mm?
[13:24] <mattbrejza> persumably
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> can I check the unitS?
[13:25] <mattbrejza> ideally youll want to try to get it to 78x50
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[13:25] <mattbrejza> it uses the same units as the grid
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I can do that easily but the NTX2 will slightly overhang. That'll be ok I guess
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> I'll check the grid
[13:25] <mattbrejza> the ntx2 can overhang, but you can probably poke thigs around so it doesnt
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> ah, got it down to 54 :/
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a look
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> 53
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[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: 50.4 :/ would mitch not mind? :)
[13:31] <mattbrejza> na keep going...
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[13:33] <eroomde> why is the board size an issue?
[13:33] <eroomde> i've not been keeping up
[13:34] <mattbrejza> mitch has special prices for 5x5 and 10x5
[13:34] <mattbrejza> so might as well make it fit if not too much issue
[13:34] <eroomde> oh righty
[13:39] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 I reckon if you: move power up and rotate left. move SMA onto left hand side and rotate left and fit the NTX2 without folding it over. you'll easily get down to 50 x 50
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[13:40] <WillTablet> Hi
[13:40] <WillTablet> Ping eroomde
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> really HixWork, that might be a bit of a push
[13:40] <WillTablet> Hi ibanezmatt13
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Will
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Rotate NTX2?
[13:40] <WillTablet> Can I call you Matt? :-)
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> why?
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> oh siorry
[13:41] <WillTablet> There's no tab complete in androirc
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> Ofcourse
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> I thought you meant my phone number :P
[13:41] <WillTablet> Haha
[13:41] <WillTablet> We
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> sure WillTablet :)
[13:41] <WillTablet> Played killer in darts
[13:42] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 no, the foorprint has the NTX2 bent over itself, if you fir it as it comes, then you shave board space. you can wrap it to insulate anyhow
[13:42] <WillTablet> And someone asked this 14 year old girl next to me what her number was.
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> you mean I should use the vertical NTX2?
[13:42] <HixWork> yeah, it'd got the space down
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> good thinking, I'll change it
[13:43] <eroomde> WillTablet, pong
[13:43] <WillTablet> Ping
[13:43] <eroomde> you're meant to say something now
[13:44] <WillTablet> Are any of Camus' other works any good?
[13:44] <eroomde> don;t know, only read l'etranger
[13:44] <eroomde> but there's plenty of french writers with their heads up their bottoms for you to choose from if you enjoyed it
[13:44] <eroomde> they specialise in that sort of thing
[13:45] <eroomde> there's a funny satre play called Huis-clos
[13:45] <WillTablet> It was an interesting book.
[13:45] <WillTablet> Good example of the lack of a meaning to life.
[13:45] <eroomde> or no exit in english
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> wow HixWork, the vertical makes a huge difference
[13:46] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 in fact. you could wholesale shunt the vreg and power in to the void above the crystal. seems that you could then lose the jump uncer the crystal line too.
[13:46] <HixWork> shouldn't be too much of a ballache
[13:46] <ibanezmatt13> I'll look over it, thanks for the advice
[13:46] <WillTablet> Need something to read or watch on the plane home.
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[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> yeah you're right, that void is completely useless
[13:47] <HixWork> costly too ;p
[13:47] <HixWork> WillTablet look out of the window?
[13:48] <WillTablet> Nah that's boring
[13:48] <gonzo_> look at the hostesses?
[13:48] <WillTablet> Nah that's boring
[13:48] <WillTablet> Why?
[13:49] <HixWork> pretend you are a HAB
[13:49] <HixWork> a bloody quick one
[13:49] <gonzo_> watch out for the trees on landing
[13:49] <HixWork> gonzo_ like your thinking
[13:49] <gonzo_> never gets old for me!
[13:50] <eroomde> WillTablet, i have not read a huge amount of this kind of existentialist stuff. but, if you want recommendations of stuff similar then i'd give No Exit (Huis-Clos) a try
[13:50] <eroomde> or Waiting for Godot
[13:50] <eroomde> or Notes from the Unserground, though I never finished that
[13:51] <HixWork> unless you're flying AA gonzo_ inwhich case they are all old
[13:51] <eroomde> underground*
[13:51] <HixWork> thought that was a german book then eroomde :D
[13:51] <WillTablet> Actually I'd rather be distracted from the meaningless of living, since I'm on holiday.
[13:52] <eroomde> get those then
[13:52] <eroomde> if you have an e-reader, they're probably free
[13:52] <WillTablet> I don't need to be reminded of it constantly. I won't read many books like that again, though it was good.
[13:53] <eroomde> no exit is shortest (it's a play) and quite easy to read
[13:53] <WillTablet> Anything is free off thepiratebay
[13:53] <WillTablet> :-)
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[13:53] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: I'm trying to get rid of a via and it's really annoying me
[13:54] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[13:54] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> There are two vias connected to each other connected to a capacitor and I want to get rid of them. It won't let me
[13:55] <eroomde> it can involve a fair bit of right clicking and ripping up
[13:55] <eroomde> and silly yellow crosses that refuse to go
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I'll keep trying
[13:57] <ibanezmatt13> I don't understand, there's no need for them at all
[13:57] <eroomde> drc often complains about that cryptically
[13:57] <eroomde> overlapping drills of something
[13:58] <eroomde> usually jsut means you've accidently put one via exactly ontop of another one
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[13:59] <HixWork> ripup is your frined ibanezmatt13
[13:59] <WillTablet> I should read up on pcbs
[13:59] <HixWork> or friend
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> ripup what though?
[13:59] <HixWork> the via
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try it
[13:59] <HixWork> or the trace around it, seeing as you are going into the void :)
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool it worked
[13:59] <HixWork> yup
[14:00] <HixWork> we'll have you down to 40mm soon ;p
[14:00] <WillTablet> You designing a pcb tracker Matt?
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[14:02] <WillTablet> Sorry did you reply irc client quit?
[14:02] <WillTablet> *.
[14:04] <Steffanx> He did not.
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[14:10] <WillTablet> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/pcb-basics/composition
[14:10] <WillTablet> I don't get this. How are the components actually connected?
[14:11] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[14:11] <WillTablet> If there's a whole layer of copper, doesn't it short circuit, as the whole layer is conductive.
[14:12] <eroomde> it's not a whole layer
[14:12] <eroomde> look at it
[14:12] <eroomde> it's traces/lines of copper
[14:12] <eroomde> with gaps
[14:12] <WillTablet> So how are they printed?
[14:13] <G4MYS-Andy> where was it found?
[14:13] <WillTablet> And here there is a layer of copper https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/assets/7/8/6/c/e/50d49bd5ce395f700e000001.jpg
[14:13] <eroomde> with gaps in
[14:14] <eroomde> look at how there are traces of copper
[14:14] <eroomde> then nothing
[14:14] <eroomde> like wires
[14:14] <eroomde> you start with a whole solid layer of copper, then you etch away with acid the places where you don't want copper
[14:14] <WillTablet> Right.
[14:15] <WillTablet> So the bits between the lines are tracez?
[14:15] <eroomde> well, the traces are the conductive bits
[14:15] <eroomde> then the area immediately around them has been etched away through to the firebreglass board carrier
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Wow, got it down to 40x54mm with only 23 errors (all stop masks which are ok) :)
[14:16] <WillTablet> Right
[14:16] <eroomde> the pcb fab houses print a pattern onto the copper with an ink which is acid-proof. they they place them in an accid bath and the exposed bits of copper get eaten away, and the bits of copper with the acid-proof paint on stay there
[14:17] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 great work dude. you just need to lose 4mm now ;) got a grab?
[14:17] <WillTablet> So basically the tracks are isolated from each other?
[14:17] <ibanezmatt13> I'l get you one, give us 2 mins
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: yes
[14:17] <WillTablet> With trp
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: there is no copper between tracks.
[14:17] <WillTablet> Yeah
[14:17] <WillTablet> Right
[14:17] <WillTablet> So it isolates them
[14:18] <chrisstubbs> WillTablet: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2407
[14:18] <WillTablet> Maybe I could make an ntx2 and ubx breakoutp
[14:18] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fos9ibipjlwgxvb/borbuino.png
[14:18] <HixWork> we have a year in industry student at my new place. they've got him using designspark. trying to convert him to eagle so I can help him a bit
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[14:19] <eroomde> a yini student doing engineering
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> brb, drink
[14:19] <eroomde> lucky thing
[14:19] <eroomde> he hasn't been tasked something fun like putting all the historical drawings into a version control system
[14:20] <eroomde> not a proper version control system of course
[14:20] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 the SMA will foul the NTX I suggest moving it to the l.h.s and rotate it left so its above the NTX2, that should bring you <50mm
[14:20] <eroomde> but, Microsoft Visual SourceSafeSynergyAssetProtector Professional
[14:20] <HixWork> eroomde :D
[14:21] <HixWork> they have him designing a pcb for something. Not sure what. He has no electronics knowledge afaik
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[14:21] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13, what's the thing above r5?
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13> ok HixWork, I'm not 100% sure what you mean
[14:22] <HixWork> the SMA move it to the left side of the board and rotate it so it sticks oout ffrom the left
[14:22] <HixWork> place it above the NTX2
[14:22] <WillTablet> Should I try and design a breakout for ntx2 and ubx?
[14:22] <eroomde> also ibanezmatt13 , you need to put lots of vias in just from top gnd to bottom gnd
[14:22] <eroomde> to stitch them together
[14:22] <HixWork> and drop the NTX2 down a little
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that eroomde
[14:22] <eroomde> otherwise they becomes two plates with a dialectric between them
[14:22] <WillTablet> Surely the ubx is hard to solder
[14:22] <HixWork> oh arr
[14:22] <eroomde> or 'capacitor' is that's more commonly known
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: sorry but I'm still confused, I can't see how that would take any space off :(
[14:23] <eroomde> WillTablet, almost all of it is much easier that you'd think with a steady hand and a decent iron
[14:23] <WillTablet> Given the contacts look tiny
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> above? how do you mean
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> it is WillTablet. I'll require some soldering lessons :)
[14:24] <WillTablet> That's what she said
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> well, not really :)
[14:24] <eroomde> what's the thing above r5 ibanezmatt13?
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> it's a track connecting two ground planes
[14:24] <eroomde> ok
[14:24] <eroomde> put that right under the gps
[14:24] <WillTablet> My granddad has parkinson's so it's quite funny when we try to solder stuff.
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> Did it that way to avoid ground loops
[14:25] <eroomde> and move the power connector off the same bit of gnd as the gps
[14:25] <eroomde> you want *nothing* except the gps there
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, will do
[14:25] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 see the style and flair I've used http://i.imgur.com/mqJPSNS.png
[14:25] <HixWork> ;p
[14:25] <eroomde> i.e. put a vertical split in to the right of the power connector, and then you might aswell join the power connector's bit of gnd directly to the main area's bit of gnd
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[14:26] <ibanezmatt13> oh HixWork you mean that will take 50mm from the top?
[14:26] <WillTablet> He's determined to do it though.
[14:26] <eroomde> a note about decouplers ibanezmatt13
[14:26] <HixWork> hopefully. maybe shunt the vreg et al up a wee bit more and the crystal and associated caps
[14:26] <eroomde> in order for them to work properly, it needs to be their pad that is supplying the current to the ic
[14:27] <eroomde> so you want the ic pin to be connected directly and only to the decoupling cap's pad
[14:27] <eroomde> and the power to the decoupling cap to come into the other side of that pad
[14:28] <ibanezmatt13> I see eroomde. I'll have a look at it, thanks
[14:28] <eroomde> you don't want what you've done with c6, which is to have the power line fork, with one side going to the ic pin and the other side going to the cap
[14:28] <eroomde> power line ---- cap +ve pad ---- IC's power pin
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I see what you mean. I've just changed the one for the AVR, I'll do the rest now
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> C6 that is
[14:29] <eroomde> but it looks good generally
[14:29] <eroomde> you have done a nice job
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> Thank you, it took a hell of a lot of perserverence!
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[14:32] <HixWork> eroomde were you in oyur WWII office during the heatwave?
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[14:37] <eroomde> when was the heatwave?
[14:38] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Are you back in the UK now?
[14:44] <WillTablet> Ping you
[14:44] <WillTablet> Upu
[14:44] <WillTablet> Spell check :-) -
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[14:55] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: unfortunately yes
[14:55] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
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[15:00] <HixWork> eroomde think you were in Italy when it was >33C
[15:00] <eroomde> ah
[15:00] <eroomde> it was 40 in italy
[15:00] <HixWork> wondered how the building felt then
[15:00] <HixWork> you could've used the cooling matrix in a "test"
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[15:04] <eroomde> that is probably overkill
[15:04] <eroomde> the power density of that thing is in the GW/m^3
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[15:11] <HixWork> ok, but only a little bit :)
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[15:13] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[15:21] <Laurenceb> attn trolls
[15:21] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1TVlWqfXiN8
[15:21] <Laurenceb> go go go go go
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> does anyone know where I can find that online gerber viewer?
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> The one where you drag and drop files into it
[15:23] <daveake> wild guess
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> that wasn't the one I had but it might be ok :)
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> nah, doesn't support the right files
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[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> got it, thanks
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[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Will any gerber viewing program view the hackvana files?
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[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> Will Gerbv view hackvana.cam files
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> ?
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[15:37] <ibanezmatt13> Guys I'd like to view my PCB in some sort of nice viewer. I've done a hackvana.cam and I'm not sure what to do with the files.
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[15:41] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13 gerbv will open 'em up
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I tried it but it didn't look like it should have looked
[15:41] <englishman> www.circuitpeople.com works well for gerbs
[15:41] <ibanezmatt13> I'll upload the files to db
[15:41] <englishman> or oshpark's utility
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[15:43] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mcvmkqj670pfvyp/XY-NLmfLD6
[15:43] <HixWork> sorry dude, not got eagle here [changed employ]
[15:43] <HixWork> ahh, but i have gerbv
[15:43] <HixWork> sorrry
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> That's what we need :)
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> It just looks a bit strange. The board itself is fine, passed the error checker
[15:46] <ibanezmatt13> huh?
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: A little confused ^^
[15:47] <ibanezmatt13> What's that about
[15:48] <HixWork> sent you a gerbv file
[15:48] <ibanezmatt13> to db?
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> where did you send it?
[15:49] <HixWork> forget it
[15:49] <HixWork> if you've opened it
[15:49] <ibanezmatt13> I've not
[15:49] <HixWork> I still think you can get <50mm
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> I really don't think I can :
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> I've tried
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> did you view it in gerbv? Look ok?
[15:51] <HixWork> that sarantel footprint needs to be on the edge, nudge MAX6 down a little and the power conn, bingo
[15:51] <ibanezmatt13> the sarantel bit can overhang?
[15:52] <nigelvh> The sarantel DOES overhang
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> Ah I see, nevermoid
[15:52] <ibanezmatt13> I'll sort that
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Did you manage to view it in gerbv?
[15:53] <HixWork> touch the outline, if you move it down 0.5mm and take the bottom outline up 1mm then adjust the top outline line, you're pretty much on 50mm high
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[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> ok so I'll move those components down a bit and move theoutlines
[15:54] <HixWork> yeah, then I think you've to the 50mm sorted
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[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> were you able to view it ok in gerbv HixWork ?
[15:54] <HixWork> there are a few traces with 90 deg junctions, which isn't the best
[15:54] <HixWork> gerbv fine dude
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[15:55] <HixWork> there are also a few tracks which change width randomly. also a few lines that are at weired angles, prob where moved. I'd rip up them and reroute using the 45 deg line option. just to make it nice
[15:57] <HixWork> right, time to get my hometime on. ibanezmatt13 i'll pop up later and have a look. byeeeeee
[15:57] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> cheers HixWork, bye :)
[16:00] <ibanezmatt13> how much are the sarantel pads supposed to overhang by?
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: how much are the pads for the sarantel supposed to overhang by?
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> 'my LEDs keep blowing up' http://i.imgur.com/Oldvr8C.jpg
[16:05] <ibanezmatt13> wooo, less than 50x50
[16:06] <mattbrejza> got a quick screen shot?
[16:06] <ibanezmatt13> yep one sec
[16:07] <bertrik> SpeedEvil: seriously? who does this?
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Linked from elsewhere - dunno.
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[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> SpeedEvil: https://www.dropbox.com/s/670csuw78rge1g3/Board.png
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> I've gotta go now but I'll be back on later
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> May need a little tidying up around the Sarantel and need a few more random gnd vias
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> not sure if the sarantel can overhang that much
[16:10] <ibanezmatt13> but oh well
[16:11] <mattbrejza> minor point is that i would rotate the power connector ibanezmatt13
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I can do that
[16:11] <mattbrejza> so the wires come off the same side as the 434 antenna
[16:11] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: does everything else generally look ok
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[16:11] <mattbrejza> im not sure on the placement of the sarantel though
[16:12] <mattbrejza> also best to nudge the crystal nearer to the IC to keep those traces short
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> nah, HixWork said it could overhang but he went before I could ask by how much :/
[16:12] <mattbrejza> but nothing major
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> cool, I gotta run but I'll be here later on
[16:12] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
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[16:20] <astrobiologist_> Hi all, are Anthony or Phil on at the moment please? I have some foundation exam qs about the form
[16:22] <mfa298> craag: was around earlier. Although if it's general questions about the foundation exam others might be able to answer them.
[16:22] <mfa298> and I suspect the Phil you were after is craag
[16:22] <astrobiologist_> Thanks, it was mostly about who to put down as the Lead Instructor and their Reg No, and how to make payment
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[16:23] <craag> astrobiologist_: Just sent you an email
[16:25] <craag> You'll need to arrange the other bit with Anthony.
[16:25] <craag> How are you finding the Book so far?
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[16:29] <astrobiologist_> So far so good thanks, I think I've picked up some basic electronics knowledge over the years. Apologies for any pauses, I'm filling in the form in OpenOffice as we speak!
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[16:30] <craag> np, good to hear.
[16:30] <craag> btw if you're still on openoffice, switch to libreoffice.
[16:31] <craag> same code, same developers, not managed by Oracle so suddenly way ahead of OO in bugfixes/features.
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[16:32] <nigelvh> Seconded
[16:34] <astrobiologist_> But I thought Oracle had dumped them anyway and it was Apache now?
[16:34] <craag> Yep that's happened since. But Apache has pretty much written it off because Libreoffice has all the momentum now.
[16:35] <astrobiologist_> Interesting, OO 4.0 has just launched so I thought they were still going
[16:36] <Babs__> Hank Marvin is coding now too? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hdDUfFBPi24&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DhdDUfFBPi24
[16:36] <Babs__> Evening all
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[16:38] <mfa298> Oracle doing what the do best. Taking over something good and ....
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[17:12] <Brace> guess you guys have seen this - http://mchck.org/ - could be good for controlling a pico flight?
[17:13] <craag> YAMB
[17:14] <craag> Yet another microcontroller board
[17:14] <Brace> heh
[17:14] <Brace> I was just wondering if that's what you meant
[17:14] <craag> Yes it would work, probably a bit overpowered for standard position telemtetry stuff.
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[17:17] <bertrik> Brace: there's also an IRC channel dedicated to the mchck #mchck
[17:17] <Brace> bertrik: good to know, thanks for that
[17:17] <mattbrejza> if there was a cc430 dev board that would be a better option
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[17:23] <craag> mattbrejza: Do you have your CC430 code up anywhere?
[17:23] <mattbrejza> not anywhere useful
[17:23] <mattbrejza> ill move it to github in the end
[17:25] <mattbrejza> did you want anything in particular?
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[17:27] <craag> not right now, it's all on hold for the moment. But I took a look at the CC1101 interface docs and couldn't really get my head round it.
[17:28] <mattbrejza> yea just ignore the datasheet and us ethe ti interface code
[17:29] <craag> pcb layout work has stalled in favour of other electronics projects I'm being paid for.
[17:29] <craag> ok
[17:29] <mattbrejza> the register description is probably usefil
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[17:30] <craag> ok, i'll leave it til I have time to properly immerse in it.
[17:30] <mattbrejza> ask me for mine if its got on github when you get to it
[17:30] <craag> ok thanks
[17:33] <astrobiologist_> Must go, my Blackberry Q5 has died, talking of eclectic electronics etc...
[17:34] <craag> astrobiologist_: Remember we have another IRC channel if you have any radio license questions
[17:35] <craag> Which I seem to have dropped out of... hmm
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[17:57] <Steve_2E0VET> evening
[17:58] <mfa298> evening
[17:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> evening
[17:58] <x-f> evening
[17:59] <Steve_2E0VET> ready for a million questions!!!!
[18:00] <cde> but do you have a million answers!!!!
[18:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes 42 is always the answer
[18:01] <Steve_2E0VET> i have 2 sketches both doing the same thing i.e transmitting RTTY, one is the example from UKHAS and it works ok(ish) the other being a complete GPS/RTTY script and it is eratic in decoding any ideas
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[18:02] <mfa298> that would suggest they're not quite doing the same things.
[18:02] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, good answer
[18:03] <mfa298> with coding issues it's often useful to put the code on pastebin/ pastie/ gighub so others can see it.
[18:03] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, i kinda worked that out myself lol
[18:04] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, the one thats not working i got from someone else, and I know it works (or should do)
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[18:05] <mfa298> that's about the level of help I can manage with what I know about your problem at the moment.
[18:05] <Steve_2E0VET> im not being much help am i
[18:08] <mfa298> if you can post your code somewhere you might get more help.
[18:09] <mfa298> although if it's erratic at decoding that sounds a bit like it could be a timing issue
[18:13] <Steve_2E0VET> what determines the width of the yellow bars within FLDIGI, not the shift the actuall thickness
[18:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The Shift setting
[18:14] <fsphil> bandwidth
[18:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh sory just re-read that!
[18:14] <Steve_2E0VET> thats it the bandwidth
[18:14] <mfa298> the thickness of the bars is likely to depend a bit on how stong the signal is and the baud rate. And Possibly on how cleanly it's changing between the two frquencies
[18:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It doesn't alter the width of the bars themselves only the thin red bits above to indicate the bandwidth about each tone
[18:15] <fsphil> the red bit above is the filter bandwidth
[18:15] <fsphil> which should be equal to the datarate, or just above
[18:15] <fsphil> 50 baud signal the filter should be 50-60hz-ish
[18:15] <Steve_2E0VET> ok at the moment it is one big yellow blob, I'm using an FT-857 to decode if I turn on DNR,DNF & DBF, then i get 2 pretty solid bars
[18:16] <fsphil> you should always have two if you're listening to rtty
[18:16] <fsphil> and tuned so that the signal is in the middle of the bandpass
[18:16] <Steve_2E0VET> is the band pass the 2 red lines
[18:17] <fsphil> it's the audio band pass of your radio
[18:17] <fsphil> in USB it's normally about 2.8khz
[18:17] <fsphil> so you'd tune it so the rtty is sitting at about 1500hz on your waterfall
[18:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Are you tuning in when there is no data being sent ?
[18:18] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, no
[18:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> What happens if you slowly tune acrss the signal ?
[18:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Can yuo post a screen grab ?
[18:19] <Steve_2E0VET> the yellow lines move
[18:19] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, i'll try
[18:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is this your own modulation your looking at I'm wondering if the rate of switching between the two tones is sow for some reason ?
[18:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *slow
[18:20] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, yes my own
[18:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Do you have a scope you can watch the modulation line with ?
[18:21] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, no
[18:21] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/sapcnwV.jpg new tracker coming along
[18:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> In that case a screen grab would help
[18:22] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, just doing it
[18:22] <fsphil> very nice mattbrejza
[18:22] <fsphil> what is the huge header?
[18:22] <mattbrejza> generic IO
[18:22] <mattbrejza> i have a ADC board that can plug into it
[18:22] <fsphil> aah
[18:23] <fsphil> modular
[18:23] <mattbrejza> also the MSP430 can remap all its digital pins so i dont even have to worry about what peripherals to wire to it
[18:23] <mfa298> you know the boards are getting small when a 10pin header is huge (and takes up a significant part of the board)
[18:24] <fsphil> all of them? so the uart could be any two pins?
[18:24] <fsphil> well almost any
[18:24] <mattbrejza> yep
[18:24] <fsphil> that's a nice trick
[18:24] <mattbrejza> modern micros for you...
[18:24] <mattbrejza> theres also an SD card slot on the bottom
[18:25] <Steve_2E0VET> whats the name of the site to upload the pics to
[18:25] <fsphil> how is it programmed?
[18:25] <Steve_2E0VET> found it
[18:25] <mattbrejza> that 4 pin header
[18:25] <mattbrejza> 2 wire + gnd programming thingy
[18:26] <fsphil> not too bad
[18:26] <mattbrejza> havnt gone quite as far as picotex which had a programming cradle and pogo pins
[18:26] <fsphil> I'm always afraid to step outside of the avr world, because of the unknowns about programming and compiling on linux
[18:26] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, http://imgur.com/57LXsXN.png
[18:26] <mattbrejza> stm32 is fine
[18:26] <Babs__> Hey fsphil
[18:26] <mattbrejza> msp430 is fine
[18:27] <Babs__> May I ask you a question on structs?
[18:27] <fsphil> stm32 is programmed using gdb weirdly
[18:27] <fsphil> fire away Babs__, if I can't answer someone's bound to know :)
[18:27] <mattbrejza> oh i guess programming and debugging could be interesting
[18:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK that doesn't look too bad you have 200+Hz shift but why the drop in carrier just above the bottom ?
[18:27] <Babs__> So I define a variable "datatoreceive" in a struct
[18:27] <fsphil> the signal is a bit noisy Steve_2E0VET
[18:27] <mattbrejza> its so nice to have a proper debug thig on this, going back to avr is just a pain, having to use the uart to debug
[18:27] <Steve_2E0VET> geoff a 2 second pause
[18:28] <Babs__> The variable is an int
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[18:28] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, a 2 second pase
[18:28] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: how are you powering it?
[18:28] <Steve_2E0VET> usb from computer
[18:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> you turn the carrier off rather than leave a mark/space signal ?
[18:28] <Babs__> In the loop section of the code, what is the correct way to set it to a value of 1
[18:28] <fsphil> Babs__: is it a global?
[18:28] <fsphil> the struct that is
[18:28] <Babs__> Is it int datatoreceive = 1
[18:29] <Babs__> Hmm, don't know what that means
[18:29] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, i presume so, its not a script i wrote
[18:29] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, usb from computer
[18:29] <fsphil> Babs__: where is it declared? in loop() or at the top, outside the functions?
[18:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> which transmitter is it?
[18:30] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: you may have noise coming in from that, or someone not handling the current your tracker is using -- the signal should be a lot cleaner than that
[18:30] <mattbrejza> btw fsphil TI have a version of their IDE for linux, while you might not want to use it, its a good sign
[18:30] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, its the ntx2 434.075
[18:30] <fsphil> that's a very good sign mattbrejza. there's at least something
[18:31] <daveake> First off you need to set dl-fldigi to 200Hz shift not 240
[18:31] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: the shift you've got configured might be a bit high as well, you might get better results if you reduce it a bit - something to experiment with.
[18:31] <daveake> Second you need to find out why the signal is so wobbly. Could be power; could be your receiver
[18:32] <Steve_2E0VET> bettwer not be the receiever just paid £700 for it lol
[18:32] <fsphil> haha
[18:32] <daveake> Yeah looking closer I can see some faint blue lines which are vertical
[18:32] <Babs__> It is declared at the top outside the functions fsphil
[18:32] <Babs__> Just emailed it to you as I realise it might be easier
[18:32] <mfa298> it could be a receiver setting. especially if it's trying to do any sort of dsp.
[18:32] <fsphil> Babs__: okie, then to set it inside loop you'd just assign a value to it
[18:33] <Steve_2E0VET> yeah i probably need to read the manual on dsp etc
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[18:33] <daveake> turn it off
[18:33] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, any good sites that will show me how to code leaving a mark/space signal
[18:33] <fsphil> yea turn of any kind of filter on the radio
[18:33] <fsphil> and noise blankers
[18:33] <daveake> don't need any cleverness when the transmitter is in the same room :)
[18:34] <fsphil> they're good for voice, but horrible for data
[18:34] <Babs__> Ok then I think I am on the right tracks but you might tell me differently once you've seen it (ps the code is only half written)
[18:34] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, are you familier with Yaesu?
[18:34] <daveake> I have an 817
[18:34] <fsphil> Babs__: nothing arrived yet
[18:34] <Steve_2E0VET> no moved it to kitchen
[18:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Can you get it to send just a single tone no modulation, if that is a nice clean line then fine if its still thick ans wobbly then time to look at the PSU to start with
[18:34] <mattbrejza> btw it could be soundcard noise cancelling settings
[18:34] <Steve_2E0VET> dave i have DNR,DNF & DBF on
[18:34] <daveake> Turn em all off
[18:35] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, when i do the yellow line becomes one thick yellow
[18:35] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, let me look through the FT857's menu
[18:35] <daveake> Something else wrong then
[18:36] <daveake> And do what Geoff-G8DHE-M says - stop modulating and make sure you get a single steady line
[18:36] <mfa298> if the whole display is yellow you might just have too much audio getting to dl-fldigi
[18:36] <fsphil> I've not turned any of those things on on my 857, it should work fine without them
[18:36] <fsphil> Babs__: arrived
[18:41] <Babs__> Looking at it again I think the line int readytoreceive = 1 should read indicator.readytoreceive = 1 maybe? Fsphil
[18:42] <mfa298> if you're using a struct then having a . in the middle usually makes sense
[18:42] <mfa298> a struct can contain several variables so the . seperates the struct name from the internal variable.
[18:42] <fsphil> replied
[18:43] <Babs__> Yes mfa298 - I'm a bit of a beginner at this but it looks the right way to attach the variable in the right way
[18:43] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, what do you mean by a single tone, just a row of the same characters
[18:43] <Babs__> Awesome! Thanks fsphil
[18:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No no data at all just a single carrier, with no shift applied, but have the pin connected in case the nise is coming from the I/O pi of the micro.
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[18:44] <mfa298> structs are generally used to keep a set of realted variables together (so in normal C there's a tm struct that contains hour, minute, second, day, month, year etc.)
[18:45] <fsphil> yea if you've only a few variables then it's probably not worth using structs
[18:45] <fsphil> structs are also useful if you need more than one set of a group of values
[18:46] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, im now confused. not sure how i would get it to send the carrier without sending data(i'm pretty new to all this data stuff)
[18:46] <mfa298> unless you want to return them all by value from a function call
[18:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Your using Frequency Shift Keying, so when you turn the transmitter ON, it just sends a single carrier.
[18:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> When you apply modulation the cariier shifts freq.
[18:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> So if you turn the Tx ON, but don't send any data then you will have a single Yellow line showing.
[18:48] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, ok got it
[18:48] <fsphil> are you using breadboard Steve_2E0VET?
[18:48] <fsphil> that can also cause noise
[18:48] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, yes
[18:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That's why I asked how you managed to make the two second break whenall the carrier went off
[18:48] <Steve_2E0VET> let me show you all a second picture......
[18:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah yes if its still breadboarded then any long wires kicking about could be causing problems
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[18:50] <fsphil> I've had breadboard do something similar, then other times works fine. it's very unpredictible
[18:50] <Babs__> mfa298: the struct is used in the easytransfer library that I'm using to communicate between 2 arduinos
[18:50] <Steve_2E0VET> this is using the RTTY script from UKHAS http://imgur.com/gcf8mXf
[18:51] <Babs__> (Well, it's used in the example in the folder)
[18:51] <Babs__> So I was trying to mirror that to get it all working
[18:51] <mfa298> Babs__: I suspect that might be to make passing values around between functions easier, nothing wrong with that if that's the case.
[18:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Right yes you can see the carrier remains on in the gap using the High freq. on the previous it left no carrier at all which is not expected.
[18:53] <Babs__> mfa298: I think that is probably the case too
[18:53] <Babs__> If it works then it will be a quite handy library
[18:53] <Steve_2E0VET> now this is strange, when i take it off the computer usb and put a battery on, the yellow lines start at 800 on the waterfall
[18:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It will be a different voltage, and given the simple bias network that is changing the freq. remember any change in analogue voltage means a shift in freq.
[18:55] ibanezmatt13 (5697ca11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.151.202.17) joined #highaltitude.
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening :)
[18:55] <Steve_2E0VET> the signal sounds different as well
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> ping HixServer
[18:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> A simple experiment would be to replace the network with a simple Potentiometer and just get a feel for the change is freq. as you vary the voltage.
[18:56] <Steve_2E0VET> http://imgur.com/sVIQMht
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> I've got this PCB nearly done but there's a few changes I need to make. At the moment, I just need to know a little more about the Sarantel antenna
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/670csuw78rge1g3/Board.png
[18:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Not up there yet or wrong page
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> I've got it overhanging but it may be overhanging too much. I'm not that sure what to do with it
[18:57] <Steve_2E0VET> http://imgur.com/sVIQMhT
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[18:58] <Upu> evening ibanezmatt13
[18:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No that looks nasty, each freq. is much broader and lots of noise between lines
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> evening Upu, I hope you'll be pleased: https://www.dropbox.com/s/670csuw78rge1g3/Board.png
[18:58] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host109-145-33-84.range109-145.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> It's no where near done yet
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13> I need more info on the sarantel about how much to overhang it by
[18:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> What elevel of audio do you have going into dl-fldigi ? can you show the whole pane
[18:58] <Upu> very nice who gave you the pointers ?
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubs gave me a join.me tutorial
[18:59] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, is that the blue background
[18:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> there diamond in the right lower corner should be Green rather then yellow or red
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> this morning with new knowledge I started a fresh and ended with that :)
[18:59] <Upu> superb nice one Chris Stubbs
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Could you give me a heads up on the Sarantel so I can finish it?
[18:59] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, diamond is green
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> I was told to over hang it a bit but aI'm a little confuised
[19:00] <Upu> sure
[19:00] <Upu> mail over the eagle files
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[19:00] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, afc is green and SQL is OFF
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK if you give to much audio level it will go red and all hell can let loose!
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mcvmkqj670pfvyp/XY-NLmfLD6 Upu
[19:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think you have a lot of noise coming into the NTX2 Tx line either from the suppies or from the micro I/O pin
[19:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *supplies
[19:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Do you have the supply lines decoupled close to the bias network ?
[19:01] <Steve_2E0VET> Geoff-G8DHE, ok let me take alook at the wires
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: That's not the most recent I think
[19:04] <Upu> send me latest
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> ok, gimme 5 mins
[19:07] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> nearly done Upu
[19:08] <Upu> take your time
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g136pkelvocmv09/2JxZCmWdro
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> What I'm going to do is rotate the power connector 90 degrees, move the crystal a little close to the AVR and then eventually fix the GPS
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> antenna
[19:09] <ibanezmatt13> But the board is now less than 50x50mm after some adjusting
[19:10] <Upu> ok 2 mins
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13> no probs
[19:12] Hix (~Hix@host86-163-121-76.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Hix
[19:12] <Hix> ping ibanezmatt13
[19:12] <Hix> ha
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:12] <Hix> hello
[19:12] <Hix> <50mm?
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> I was just gonna ask about the antenna but Upu's checking it out :)
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> yes, 50x50, less than :)
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the recomendations
[19:13] <Hix> sweet. skills dude
[19:13] <Hix> nps
[19:13] <Hix> ping Babs__
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[19:14] <Hix> ibanezmatt13: are the brd and sch in db?
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> nope, just the gerbers
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> you want them?
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> They are now https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g136pkelvocmv09/2JxZCmWdro
[19:15] <Hix> chuck em in the HAB folder you shared,
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> they're in that one Hix
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> ^^
[19:15] <Hix> cool
[19:15] <Hix> don't see em
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> really?
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> one sec
[19:16] <Hix> oh, sorry you link
[19:16] <Hix> ed another folder
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g136pkelvocmv09/2JxZCmWdro
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, sorry.
[19:16] <Hix> k
[19:17] <Babs__> Pong Hix
[19:17] <ibanezmatt13> There are a few changes I need to make, such as adding a few random GND vias
[19:17] <Hix> yo Babs__ . So, I started a new job Mon.
[19:17] <Hix> Found a 3D printer in the workshop ;p
[19:17] <Babs__> Coool
[19:18] <Hix> ok ibanezmatt13
[19:18] <Babs__> Which one
[19:18] <Hix> they made their own FDM one
[19:18] <Babs__> And congrats on the job btw
[19:18] <Hix> ta
[19:18] <Babs__> What is FDM
[19:18] <Hix> I'm contract scum, its regular
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> go for it Hix :)
[19:18] <Hix> Fibre deposition ....
[19:19] <Babs__> Is it polymer depositing or laser sintering
[19:19] <Babs__> Ahhh
[19:19] <Hix> basically a string of ABS that fuses from the head
[19:19] <Hix> SLS is sintered
[19:19] <Babs__> Yes that's the type of printer used to print BABSHAB
[19:19] <Babs__> *salutes*
[19:19] <Hix> heh
[19:20] <Babs__> I'd like to print it sls stylee now that the guy I use has that type of printer also
[19:20] <Hix> thinking FDM could be more landing proof
[19:20] <Babs__> BABSHAB proved that 8 m/s landing speed and 3d printed components don't mix
[19:20] <Hix> pah 8m/s is nowt ;p
[19:21] <Babs__> Although if I put a positive spin on it I would say it was designed to provide a crumple zone for my SLR
[19:21] <Hix> ibanezmatt13: might be me being picky but there are a few tracks that are at weird angles from moving, I'd reroute them so nice and straight
[19:21] <Babs__> Damn tangled balloons
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> Sure, I can do that Hix
[19:21] <Hix> i hear ya Babs__ :)
[19:22] <Babs__> It would have been reusable in a space shuttle patch it up type of thing if it had landed normally
[19:22] <Babs__> I think
[19:22] <Hix> ibanezmatt13: not sure if the electrons care but i just looks nce
[19:22] <Hix> nice
[19:22] <Babs__> That's what I'm claiming anyway
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> When I was making all those movements, things got a bit out of hand with tracks :)
[19:22] <Hix> sure ibanezmatt13
[19:22] <Hix> Babs__: you need some non faliing o-rings
[19:22] <Hix> if thats your claim :p
[19:23] <Babs__> I plan on dropping BABSHAB in a bathful of Ice water at the conference to illustrate my point
[19:24] <Babs__> I see your demonstration and raise you a Feynman
[19:24] <Hix> to be followed by hooters girls as a rescue party Babs__ ?
[19:25] <Babs__> Did Feynman frequent hooters?
[19:25] <Hix> there are also all manner of scopes and logic analysers
[19:25] <Hix> at work
[19:25] <Babs__> I wouldn't have been surprised
[19:25] <Hix> wtf is fenyman
[19:25] <Hix> typo specially for you Babs__
[19:25] <Babs__> Seriously?
[19:25] <Hix> yup
[19:26] <Babs__> He's a guy who was an amazing physicist, bongo player and space shuttle investigator rolled into one
[19:26] <ibanezmatt13> How's it going Upu?
[19:26] <Hix> ahh. just googled
[19:26] <Upu> almost with you ibanezmatt13
[19:26] <Upu> 5 mins
[19:26] <Hix> bongo player #kudos
[19:27] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:27] <Babs__> Get his book surely you are joking
[19:27] <Babs__> Mr Feynman
[19:27] <Hix> though bingo would have been less rad
[19:27] <Hix> I am not Babs__
[19:27] <Babs__> It's a good introduction to his mind
[19:28] <Hix> hooters is agood introduction to my mind, well if they had CNC machines too
[19:28] <fsphil> he was a feyn man
[19:28] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[19:28] <Babs__> His strange theory of light and matter lectures are now on line
[19:29] <Babs__> Although I saw him described as the Chinese food of lecturers
[19:29] <Babs__> When you were in there you totally understood everything
[19:29] spankee (545d3386@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.93.51.134) joined #highaltitude.
[19:29] <Babs__> When you came out you didn't and needed some more
[19:29] <Hix> orange I've heard of Finnian , though he was slightly earlier
[19:29] <Babs__> I think arko met his sister
[19:29] <fsphil> that's a good description Babs__
[19:30] <cde> who is arko
[19:30] <fsphil> nobody knows
[19:30] <Hix> the only HABer in W.US seemingly
[19:32] <spankee> Hello all. Can I ask for some advice on launching my first project
[19:32] <Babs__> Not now I am over here
[19:32] <fsphil> fire away spankee
[19:33] <spankee> Thanks. My friend and I are very close to being ready, and now I'm trying to sort out where to launch from
[19:33] <spankee> I was rather hoping to use one of the Cambridge sites with blanket permissions that I've read about on the wiki
[19:33] <spankee> Given that I live only 15 miles away from Cambridge, that would be great, but who do I sort it out with/how do I do it?
[19:34] <fsphil> one of those sites is run by CUSF, http://www.cusf.co.uk/
[19:34] <Hix> Babs__: if you planned a launch over there i believe you would be coming back to Blighty a divorced man
[19:34] <Upu> mail contact@cusf.co.uk spankee
[19:34] <Upu> right ibanezmatt13
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> ight :)
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> right8
[19:35] <Hix> heh
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> keybpard
[19:35] <fsphil> was googling their email address, it's not on the wbesite :)
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[19:35] <fsphil> website too
[19:35] <Upu> whos going to look at a blinking LED @ 30km ?
[19:35] <spankee> Ta. Will do.
[19:35] <Hix> aliens who like trance upu
[19:35] <Upu> trick question coolness of project proportional to number of blinking LED's
[19:35] <Upu> I fly 5 min
[19:35] <Babs__> I could balloon her back over Hix
[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> lol, I was thinking more to see if it was working before launch
[19:35] <Babs__> Save on the airfare
[19:35] <fsphil> I was gonna put a high power LED on a flight
[19:35] <fsphil> modulate it with rtty
[19:36] <Hix> Babs__: i reiterrate my prevoius commnet
[19:36] <Hix> typing skillz
[19:36] <Hix> fsphil: found a 1200 lumen one. but it eats amps for brunch
[19:36] <fsphil> yea that's the main flaw
[19:36] <fsphil> though you could have a long gap between transmittions
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> pulses are great for heatinking too
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[19:37] <WillTablet> Hi
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> 1% duty cycle, and you can use bare 10w LEDs
[19:37] <Hix> thinking of it i was looking at it as a constant lightsource, strobing would significanlty reduce the demands
[19:37] <Babs__> She does feel the cold though, so I would have to choose a warm three or four days for her to make the trip
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: The LEDs won't take up too much current will they Upu ?
[19:38] <Hix> you really are the last bastion of chivalry aren't you Babs__ :)
[19:38] <WillTablet> Pinbgv
[19:38] <WillTablet> Ping Upu
[19:38] <S_Mark> right then soldered up the first board, got my avr programmer to hand, now what lol
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: 10w LEDs draw 3a@3.5v or so
[19:38] <Upu> put them on other outputs
[19:38] <Hix> ibanezmatt13: i have 2 and my avg draw is 80mA
[19:38] <Upu> so you can control them
[19:38] <Upu> then if alt > 500 don't use them
[19:38] <Upu> hi Willdude123
[19:39] <Upu> back in 5 making a brew
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:39] <Babs__> Hix : yes. I can't believe I wasn't snapped up before the ripe old age of 38
[19:39] <Hix> women these days eh Babs__
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[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I suppose I might as well just scrap the LEDs, no need really. I'll have a radio there
[19:40] <Hix> you can just desolder
[19:40] <Hix> blinkenlight is purdy though
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> Ah yes, I can leave it on the board but choose whether I want to solder it on or not.Good thinking
[19:41] <fsphil> everyone loves the linkenlights
[19:41] <fsphil> blinkenlights
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> I kinda fancy it to be honest
[19:41] Action: fsphil gives up on typing
[19:41] <fsphil> just gonna hit the keyboard from now own
[19:41] <Hix> are they a lightweight rockband fsphil
[19:41] <fsphil> a really bad one Hix
[19:41] <Hix> heh
[19:41] <fsphil> or so I've been LED to believe
[19:41] <Hix> bet the stageshow was good though
[19:41] <Hix> cringe
[19:42] <Hix> though excellent punnage
[19:42] <Hix> keep with the typing fsphil, one day you'll be as goos a I
[19:42] <Hix> #not-intentional
[19:43] <Hix> goose or good, you choose
[19:43] Action: Hix puts kybosh on any wingman jokes already
[19:44] <Upu> always put an LED on there somewhere
[19:44] <Upu> its a useful diagnostics tool
[19:44] <Upu> but have it on a GPIO
[19:45] <Upu> so you can control it
[19:45] <fsphil> ye old blink
[19:45] <Upu> right
[19:45] <Upu> ok looks good ibanezmatt13
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> thank god :)
[19:45] <Upu> you have the Sarantel connector upside down
[19:45] <Hix> insallata
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> right
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[19:46] <Upu> it looks like the GPS was somewhere else
[19:46] <Upu> and has move up :)
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> correct
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:46] <Upu> decoupling capacitors should be as close as they can to what is being decoupled
[19:46] <Upu> so get C4 closer
[19:47] <Upu> and C6
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> what's wrong with the GPS position?
[19:47] <Gadget-Mac> Evening all.
[19:47] <Hix> ibanezmatt13: you have room to move AVR down a touch to maintain <50mm
[19:47] <Upu> doesn't need to be that far up
[19:47] <Upu> yes
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> got it, noting this down
[19:47] <Hix> sounded very ATC there
[19:47] <Upu> the tracks to the crystal
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> indeed
[19:48] <Upu> should be equidistant
[19:48] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, thought that
[19:48] <Upu> if you bring C6 in , you can move the crystal down to where R6 is
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> today the electronics workshop engineer told me that I need to change the drill size on my board
[19:48] <Hix> move it to the right and down a little?
[19:48] <Upu> yep down and right
[19:48] <Babs__> I'm outta here , thanks fsphil and mfa298 with the coding tips . Laters.
[19:48] <Hix> I'm getting the hang of ATC
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> as far as I understood him, the smallest drill is .8 mm, and each solder pad needs to be 1.8 mm in diameter
[19:48] <WillTablet> Upu is it worth designing/making a breakout board for the ntx2 and UBX?
[19:48] <Upu> GND vias under GPS aren't named as GND
[19:48] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Can you remind me of the small SMT xtal you used with 328's ?
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> he said you'd need to change that in the libraries
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that's strange
[19:49] <Upu> ABM03
[19:49] <Upu> Abracon ABM03
[19:49] <ibanezmatt13> abm03?
[19:49] <Hix> scheisse, nur 8% batt left
[19:49] <S_Mark> do I need to load a bootloader onto these atmega328 ?
[19:49] <Upu> no S_Mark
[19:49] <S_Mark> ready to go are they>
[19:49] <Upu> just hold shift when you program
[19:49] <Hix> not if you have a programmer
[19:49] <Upu> have you set the fuses ?
[19:49] <S_Mark> no..
[19:50] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: thanks
[19:50] <Hix> oh, sorry
[19:50] <Upu> get ATMEL Studio S_Mark
[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark: Don't do anything on win 8 [learned hard way with amtel studio]
[19:51] <Hix> though try and get it without bundled Eclipes as its huuuge
[19:51] <mattbrejza> i have it working fine on w8
[19:51] <Upu> ibanezmatt13
[19:51] <Upu> https://join.me/345-149-687
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[19:51] <mattbrejza> (i did use the old verison though)
[19:51] <S_Mark> this windows only?
[19:51] <mattbrejza> but you only need avrdude to do the fuses?
[19:51] <Hix> gotta go. getting Apollo XIII stylee warnings on thinkpad
[19:52] Action: Hix moves to manual
[19:52] <Hix> laters
[19:52] <Upu> get it ?
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> think so Upu yeah
[19:53] <mattbrejza> i think you can apt-get avrdude if you want to just write fuses or a bootloader
[19:53] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Farnell or RS carry that xtal ?
[19:53] <Upu> I'd always center my board on 0.0 as well
[19:54] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/abracon/abm3-8-000mhz-d2-t/crystal-8mhz-18pf-smd/dp/2101329
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[19:54] <Upu> btw ibanezmatt13
[19:54] <Upu> check that out
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[19:54] <Upu> DominoEX22 :)
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> looks cool Upu
[19:55] <Upu> you can make the board larger you know
[19:55] <Upu> you have 50 mm x 50 mm to play with
[19:55] <mattbrejza> lies
[19:55] <Upu> lol
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> let's try and keep it bang on 50x50 :)
[19:56] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Thanks. Just need to fire up eagle
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[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattbrejza and Upu
[19:57] <mattbrejza> yo
[19:57] <Upu> ok see that ibanezmatt13 ?
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> yep
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[19:57] <WillTablet> Upu is it worth designing/making a breakout board for the ntx2 and UBX?
[19:57] <Upu> centered the board on 0,0
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:57] <Upu> hang fire Willdude123 be with you in a mo
[19:58] <mattbrejza> there is a queue
[19:58] <WillTablet> Sure
[19:58] <WillTablet> :-)
[19:58] <mattbrejza> please take a ticket and wait for your number to be called
[19:58] <Upu> means you can line stuff up better
[19:58] <Upu> lol
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[19:58] <Upu> also that is 50mm x 50 mm
[19:58] <Upu> so say you wanted that AVR
[19:58] <Upu> at the dead center of the board
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[19:59] <Upu> 0,0
[19:59] <Upu> don't be afraid to rotate stuff
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> cool, didn't realise I could :)
[19:59] <Upu> hold CTRL down whilst rotating
[19:59] <Gadget-Mac> You spin me round........
[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> ok, note made
[20:00] <Upu> also sticking up NTX2 bleurg
[20:00] <Upu> fly it flat
[20:00] <Upu> lie
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[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> I made it vertical for the space, but if you can make it smaller :)
[20:00] <Upu> interesting factoid
[20:00] <Upu> you can fit lots of SMD components under the NTX2
[20:01] <Upu> everywhere there isn't the red keep out
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, did you read what I wrote about my talk to the engineer above?
[20:01] <Upu> etc
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> Got it, I didn't want to risk it
[20:01] <Upu> I wouldn't
[20:01] <Upu> but you can
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'll leave it Upu
[20:01] <Upu> and use the end launch SMA
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> right
[20:02] <mattbrejza> have now Lunar_Lander
[20:02] <Upu> more flexible
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok
[20:02] <Upu> as you can solder directly to it
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> I see
[20:02] <Upu> that ok for the moment ?
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> I guess yeah :)
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[20:03] <Upu> for the record PAVA went through 17 redesigns :)
[20:03] <Upu> Willdude123
[20:03] <daveake> next customer please ...
[20:03] <Upu> lol
[20:03] <WillTablet> Right
[20:04] <mfa298> you forgot to say which checkout to go to.
[20:04] <WillTablet> Upu is it worth designing/making a breakout board for the ntx2 and UBX?
[20:04] <WillTablet> Unexpected item in bagging area.
[20:04] <Upu> you mean is it worth making something that just plugs on a Pi and does Ezmode ?
[20:06] <WillTablet> As in is it better to use protoboard or design a pcb that they both sit on?
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[20:08] <Upu> I would say its always better to make a PCB
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[20:08] <Upu> I would say its always better to make a PCB
[20:09] <WillTablet> Yah
[20:10] <WillTablet> But it's on breadboard stage atm so I needn't worry too much.
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, do you know what I have to do?
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I understood it that I have to open up the library and then I can change the drill and pad size
[20:12] <mattbrejza> well the drill holes on the parts will be fine
[20:12] <mattbrejza> its the vias that might not be .8
[20:12] <mattbrejza> not sure about pad size
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> there are no vias
[20:15] <mattbrejza> btw (forgot to say earlier) ibanezmatt13 , where you have split the ground plane for the RF and digital side of the ublox, the groundplane should be joined under the GPS rather than to the side
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> Ah yes, I'll fix that. Thanks mattbrejza
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[20:19] <WillTablet> Upu my saleae logic arrived.
[20:19] <Upu> oh very good
[20:19] <cde> WillTablet: great choice. I really love mine
[20:19] <WillTablet> Even better with a student discount.
[20:19] <WillTablet> :-)
[20:20] <cde> ah lucky you. the 16 version?
[20:20] <WillTablet> No
[20:20] <cde> well the standard version is ok for most things
[20:20] <WillTablet> Yeah
[20:20] <daveake> it is
[20:20] <cde> and the 16 can't go on 100mhz on all channels anyway, I guess because usb2 bandwidth limitation
[20:21] <cde> still was quite useful one time for a spi signal @ 25 mhz
[20:21] <mattbrejza> it buffers, (probably) nothing to do with usb
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[20:21] <WillTablet> Upu I have nothing to test it with
[20:21] <Upu> oh ded
[20:21] <WillTablet> Remind me what were we doing with the UBX?
[20:21] <cde> mattbrejza: actually it buffers very little, everything is stored in the pcs memory, making very very long captures possible
[20:21] <Upu> ublox
[20:22] <Upu> UBX is the protocol
[20:22] <mattbrejza> hmm i thought it sampled (all) and resent for higher rates, but perhaps not then
[20:22] <S_Mark> ibanezmatt13: what were your windows 8 problems with atmel studio?
[20:22] <WillTablet> Ublox
[20:22] <ibanezmatt13> everything S_Mark. Compatibility mainly with the driver for my programmer
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> may just my my PC though
[20:23] <mattbrejza> S_Mark: if you only want to program a bootloader all you need is avrdude
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[20:23] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: thats not AVRstudios fault
[20:23] <Upu> have you decided what you're doing yet ?
[20:23] <S_Mark> I believe I need to set the fuses
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I know mattbrejza
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[20:23] <WillTablet> I don't like typing on virtual keyboards Upu
[20:23] <WillTablet> :-)
[20:23] <mattbrejza> yea you just need avrdude S_Mark
[20:23] <WillTablet> But yeah the Ublox
[20:23] <Upu> you could start by using it to sort out your crappy wireless
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[20:24] <WillTablet> Huh?
[20:24] <Upu> you keep disconnecting
[20:24] <Upu> have you decided what you're doing yet ?
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[20:25] <cde> mattbrejza: actually I think you're right, in fact it compresses the sample I think using RLE
[20:25] <WillTablet> Yes.
[20:25] <WillTablet> BeagleBone Black
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[20:25] <WillTablet> I'm using it.
[20:26] <WillTablet> I decided ages ago.
[20:26] <mattbrejza> are you at least going to use it to take photos or something?
[20:27] <WillTablet> Yeah I plan on ssdv
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[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> ok, off to finish my payload box. Laters :)
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[20:27] <WillTablet> Upu Did you not realize that was what I chose?
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[20:28] <Upu> no
[20:28] <Upu> Is that 3.3v ?
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[20:28] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, so been experimenting!!
[20:29] <WillTablet> Yes
[20:29] <Steve_2E0VET> if i run the RTTY example off of the UKHAS website, everything is perfecto, perfect yellow lines in fldigi, no missing text
[20:30] <fsphil> is the signal noisy?
[20:30] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, no
[20:30] <fsphil> interesting
[20:30] <fsphil> can you take a screenshot of that?
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[20:30] <Steve_2E0VET> then i add power to the GPS and charecters start getting missed off of the rtty string
[20:31] <fsphil> aah there you go
[20:31] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, give me 2 mins
[20:31] <fsphil> your power supply can't handle the load
[20:31] <fsphil> how are you powering the gps
[20:31] <fsphil> ?
[20:31] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, its only the first charecter off of the string (PC USB)
[20:31] <WillTablet> Upu that's why
[20:31] <WillTablet> I soldered jumper wires to the 3.3v tx and rx
[20:32] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: I mean, what is the gps module connected to?
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, I got it now
[20:33] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, gps and ntx2 connected to 5v arduino
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> you edit the package in the library editor
[20:33] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: the gps is happy enough with 5v?
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> there you can select drill and pad size and shape
[20:33] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: it must have its own regulator. but anyway -- this means your arduino can't provide enough power for the GPS
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[20:35] <WillTablet> Upu so should I get a 3.3v breakout instead?
[20:35] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, the gps is the ublox
[20:35] <arko> <Babs__> I think arko met his sister
[20:35] <arko> ????
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[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, ahhh
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> it seems, at least in EAGLE 6.5.0
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> you can go to board, right click on a part, select "open package" and there you get dropped to the library editor
[20:36] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, http://imgur.com/FKHGUHu
[20:36] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: you'll probably need to provide power another way
[20:37] <fsphil> yep that's perfect
[20:37] <fsphil> so your gps is using more current than the arduino or your PC can provide, causing the voltage to drop
[20:37] <fsphil> which causes the signal to go wonky
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[20:38] <Steve_2E0VET> wqith gps
[20:38] <Steve_2E0VET> ignore that
[20:39] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, http://imgur.com/lzLP59D
[20:39] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, thats with gps connected
[20:40] <fsphil> aye
[20:40] <fsphil> power
[20:40] <Steve_2E0VET> oh. so do people send payloads up with the gps powered seperatly
[20:41] <fsphil> or with a 5v regulator that can handle the load
[20:41] <daveake> Steve_2E0VET You need to reduce the width between your red cursor lines, so you can align them both with the *centres* of the yellow signal lines.
[20:43] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, ok
[20:47] <WillTablet> Still there Upu?
[20:47] <Upu> yes
[20:47] <S_Mark> ok avrdude installed, fusetime
[20:47] <Upu> I'll post you a board tomorrow Willdude123
[20:48] <Upu> going to post you a prototype
[20:48] <Upu> you can tell me how you get on with it
[20:48] <Upu> S_Mark - 3.3V @ 8Mhz ?
[20:48] <S_Mark> yes
[20:48] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.low_fuses=0xFF
[20:48] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDA
[20:48] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x05
[20:49] <WillTablet> Thanks Upu
[20:49] <WillTablet> :-)
[20:49] <WillTablet> Ooh a prototype.
[20:50] <WillTablet> Is it a 3.3v ublox board?
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[20:55] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[21:08] <Steve_2E0VET> think its beer o'clock
[21:09] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, if its a power issue would that stop the GPS from getting a fix
[21:10] <arko> its always beer o clock
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[21:10] <fsphil> possibly Steve_2E0VET
[21:10] <fsphil> it certainly wouldn't help
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[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, changes you and others told me to make have been made: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g136pkelvocmv09/2JxZCmWdro
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> Added the end launch to as well as a few random gnd vias around the place :)
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> How's it looking? https://www.dropbox.com/s/uc4wtswevii64kp/Board.png
[21:16] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: you can join the ground plane of the powr connector to the main groundplane
[21:16] <ibanezmatt13> I think I have
[21:16] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, got a track with two vias
[21:17] <mattbrejza> yea but like with continous copper
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[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> I'd have prefered to do that but I couldn't work out how
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> How should I merge them?
[21:18] <mattbrejza> are those two nets called the same thing?
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> probably not but should be
[21:18] <mattbrejza> well assuming they are you can just overlap them
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah they are
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'll overlap them now
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> it worked mattbrejza, thanks
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[21:20] <mattbrejza> :)
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> does the board look ok?
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> apart from that
[21:21] <Upu> having a look
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[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> thanks Upu. I've since made a continous link between the top left and main ground plane, not on your version but very very close
[21:22] <Upu> move the Sarantel connect to the edge of the board
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just writing these down as notes, my Dad's making my box :/
[21:23] <Upu> haha ok
[21:23] <Upu> still think you can move the GPS down
[21:24] <Upu> you have a big space where it says "NORB"
[21:24] <Upu> for regulator
[21:24] <Upu> C4 needs to be next to GPS
[21:24] <Upu> getting there
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not too bothered about too much space for a first one, it's less than 50x50 :) I'll move C4 a bit nearer and I'll see what I can do about the space
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> Are there any other things I should do?
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[21:32] <edmoore> rightyho
[21:33] <edmoore> eagle 6.5, ubuntu 13.04, anyone else using specifically both?
[21:33] <arko> damn it, they keep updating eagle like xilinx now
[21:33] <arko> at least its not 13GB
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[21:35] <edmoore> glad ISE still works
[21:35] <edmoore> that would have been tedious
[21:35] <arko> heh
[21:35] <arko> i had to install an ubuntu vm just to have it work right
[21:35] <arko> no win8 support yet
[21:35] <edmoore> loose the windows
[21:35] <arko> makes me regret that night i got really drunk and upgraded from win7 to win8
[21:35] <arko> man
[21:36] <arko> theres a lesson to not drink right there
[21:36] <arko> but linux doesnt have cad or sim programs i like
[21:36] <arko> its not bad in a vm though
[21:39] <arko> so many poorly documented programs!
[21:39] <arko> man
[21:39] <arko> that alone makes me cringe when thinking about linux being my main machine
[21:39] <arko> other than that i love the OS
[21:39] Nick change: edmoore -> eroomde
[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: So all I need to do really is move C4 closer to the GPS and try to tidy up the free space?
[21:43] <Upu> yeah then we can have a good look at it
[21:43] <Upu> but I'm heading off soon
[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> have a good look at it? :/
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[21:43] <arko> ello
[21:43] <arko> moto
[21:45] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Will we not have to change it much after I've made those changes?
[21:48] <Upu> probably redo it from scratch :)
[21:48] <Upu> j/k
[21:48] <mattbrejza> Upu: are the other ublox modules cheaper? im wondering where kev is getting his numbers from
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> I believed you for a second Upu :)
[21:50] <Upu> a few people are buying end of line NEO6M's from Ali Express
[21:50] <mattbrejza> oh right
[21:50] <mattbrejza> so not really cheaper
[21:51] <Upu> a little
[21:51] <eroomde> sorted
[21:51] <Upu> abut £12 all in
[21:51] <eroomde> needed some 32bit libs
[21:51] <mattbrejza> or rather they wouldnt be cheaper if you were to buy from ublox
[21:51] <Upu> how do you do a static reference in Excel
[21:51] <mattbrejza> $A$1 ?
[21:51] <Upu> thats it thx
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[21:54] <eroomde> well, basically quite impressed with ubuntu13.04
[21:54] <eroomde> i have noticed pricely nothing new except unity is more responsive
[21:54] <eroomde> and that's enough to count as a win
[21:54] <arko> its nice
[21:54] <arko> been on it for a month
[21:54] <eroomde> + turning off the amazon bs
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[21:55] <arko> hows the driver support for your laptop?
[21:56] <eroomde> fine so far
[21:56] <eroomde> not found anything wrong
[21:56] <eroomde> i think thinkpads are always well supported on linux anyway
[21:57] <eroomde> not that i've ever reallyt had a prob with any laptop
[21:57] <arko> figured
[21:57] <eroomde> fingerprint scanner doesn;t work
[21:57] <eroomde> imagine my dissapointment
[21:57] <arko> see this? http://www.afr.com/p/technology/spy_agencies_ban_lenovo_pcs_on_security_HVgcKTHp4bIA4ulCPqC7SL
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[21:57] <Rebounder> eroomde: :)
[21:57] <arko> crazynesss
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[22:23] <Gadget-Mac> Anyone got a prediction for an upcoming flight handy ?
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[22:43] Action: cm13g09 thinks he has a 433MHz antenna
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[22:47] <craag> :)
[22:47] <craag> Ready for tracking this weekend?
[22:48] <S_Mark> Thanks guys, after learning about me having the non P varient of the atmega328 and working round that, we have some programmed flashing LEDs on the new tracker, thanks for your help Upu, mattbrejza, Chris Stubbs
[22:48] <G0TDJ_AFK> I'm hoping to track Philip
[22:48] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[22:49] <craag> I was hoping to do a hwoyee float flight, but now looks like I'll be working at the Bristol Balloon Fiesta!
[22:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sounds interesting - Full size balloons? Like carrying people?
[22:50] <craag> Yeah, low altitude balloons
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[22:50] <craag> full of hot air, literally
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[22:50] <craag> :P
[22:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> Coolio :D Take us some snapshots eh?
[22:51] <craag> I will take plenty of photos
[22:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Great'
[22:52] <Steve_2E0VET> ok i give up, where do i paste code for people to tell me how rubbish i am
[22:52] <craag> pastebin
[22:52] <G0TDJ_Steve> I thin kit's called pastebin but I haven't got the address
[22:52] <craag> pastebin.com :)
[22:53] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, ta]
[22:53] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, I could have guessed... LOL Long day
[22:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> Plus I'm looking for a multi-mode base radio on 2 and 70 on eBay
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[22:57] <craag> ha I've been trying to work out why this 10hx text file logging was bringing my laptop to a crawl..
[22:57] <craag> *10hz
[22:57] <craag> It was in a dropbox folder :P
[22:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> LOL :-)
[22:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Only akes a simple mistake...
[22:58] <craag> dropbox is locking up a core trying to keep up!
[22:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> takes..
[22:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll be wary of that
[22:59] <craag> It doesn't like it when you compile a kernel in it's folder either..
[23:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> ??!??!
[23:00] <Steve_2E0VET> ok so i have pasted it, what do i do now
[23:00] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Give us a link
[23:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Still, one day, everything will be in the cloud so it'll have to catch up
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[23:00] <Steve_2E0VET> lol. is this the link http://pastebin.com/Fj8yXUP7
[23:00] <craag> yep
[23:01] <Steve_2E0VET> ok so the problem is, it compiles and uploads but no RTTY or transmission at all goes out over the air
[23:01] <Steve_2E0VET> the RTTY has been stolen directly from the UKHAS RTYY demo, which works OK
[23:03] <craag> Have you got the correct pin? Number 13 on the arduino?
[23:03] <Steve_2E0VET> yes,
[23:04] <Steve_2E0VET> if i load the RTTY demo it works beautifully
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[23:04] <craag> ALthough you haven't set 13 as an output
[23:04] <Steve_2E0VET> argh
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[23:05] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, no that didnt solve it
[23:06] <Steve_2E0VET> pinMode(RADIOPIN,OUTPUT);
[23:06] <craag> yep
[23:06] <craag> ok
[23:07] <S_Mark> do you know if gps.get_info() works?
[23:08] <Steve_2E0VET> S_Mark, hi mark, no i dont think it does i put a println in and nothing printed
[23:08] <S_Mark> why dont you just hardcode a string into rtty_txstring() and see if that works
[23:08] <Steve_2E0VET> S_Mark, you should notice that i removed al;l the RTTY stuff and put the UKHAS example in
[23:08] <S_Mark> you need to make sure your individual parts are working before you attempt to bring them together
[23:09] <S_Mark> Yeah all does the same stuff. Are you using the SD card?
[23:09] <craag> Having an LED blinking on each loop can be a good indication of whether the program has crashed or not.
[23:09] <S_Mark> yes thats what I was about to say
[23:09] <S_Mark> flash the GREENLED or REDLED
[23:10] <S_Mark> I originally had it to flash in time with the radio transmission
[23:10] <Steve_2E0VET> no hard coding does doesnt make a difference
[23:10] <S_Mark> for no real reason really, just could see it was doing something
[23:11] <Steve_2E0VET> i've put println statements all over and it appears to be doing what it says it is doing
[23:11] <S_Mark> Are you using the SD card - I would take all reference to it out while you debug. It uses up so much ram even when not calling it - that I actually ran out of ram and things like this started happening, thats why the freeram() sub is in there
[23:11] <S_Mark> *was in there
[23:12] <Steve_2E0VET> S_Mark, havent put the sd card in yet, however i had it working (sort of) in the original state, however the signal was all over the place
[23:12] <S_Mark> take out the reference and the includes to it then I would
[23:12] <Steve_2E0VET> S_Mark, freeram is about 590, i've only just taken it out
[23:12] <S_Mark> ok
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[23:16] <Steve_2E0VET> http://imgur.com/1MosDmR
[23:16] <Steve_2E0VET> i think the gps info is working, however i am in my garage so the date will be meaningless
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[23:24] <S_Mark> that gps data is not working
[23:24] <S_Mark> that is its defaults values
[23:25] <S_Mark> What gps are you using actually?
[23:25] <S_Mark> on a breakout?
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[23:28] <Steve_2E0VET> ublox 6
[23:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right, I'm bushed. Good Night guys
[23:29] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[23:29] <Steve_2E0VET> for some reason when i use the example code on the UKHAS website it picks up the time straight away
[23:29] <S_Mark> night
[23:29] <Steve_2E0VET> night
[23:29] <Steve_2E0VET> but the code i am using doesnt, i have just put it by the window in the kitchen to see if anything happens
[23:29] <S_Mark> I would use that then
[23:30] <Steve_2E0VET> its strange i think you use the breakout box as well
[23:30] <S_Mark> yes
[23:30] <S_Mark> 5v yeah?
[23:30] <Steve_2E0VET> yes
[23:31] <Steve_2E0VET> did you run the gps and the ntx2 both from the same 5v supply
[23:31] <S_Mark> yep
[23:31] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, i had lots of problems with the rtty transmission with that
[23:31] <S_Mark> well actually I had 6AAs - a bit overkill
[23:31] <Steve_2E0VET> argh
[23:31] <S_Mark> ?
[23:32] <Steve_2E0VET> im running the gps from a different 5v supply now and it works a lot better
[23:33] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, have you gone?
[23:33] <Steve_2E0VET> its not even picking up the time
[23:33] <S_Mark> surely all the 5v power just comes out of the arduino 5v pin?
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[23:34] <S_Mark> and all the grounds go to the arduino ground
[23:34] <Steve_2E0VET> yes it does,
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[23:34] <bertrik> and power supply caps?
[23:34] <Steve_2E0VET> but when i experimented with the ukhas rtty script, as soon as i plugged the gps in i started losing charecters
[23:35] <S_Mark> ive seen that before
[23:35] <S_Mark> hmm
[23:35] <Steve_2E0VET> right i think its time for bed
[23:35] <S_Mark> agreed
[23:35] <Steve_2E0VET> tomorrow i will try and intergrate the ukhas gps into the script
[23:35] <S_Mark> My advice would be
[23:35] <Steve_2E0VET> i have learnt a hell of a lot more playing with your script
[23:35] <S_Mark> if you can get the examples working
[23:36] <Steve_2E0VET> yes i can get them working great independantly of each other
[23:36] <S_Mark> then make sure they work, and then start to integrate those into your own fresh script, using what you have as a guide
[23:36] <S_Mark> you will know exactly what is in there then
[23:36] <Steve_2E0VET> i think thats how its going lol
[23:36] <Steve_2E0VET> right catch you all later
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[23:38] <craag> Steve: back
[23:38] <craag> oh
[23:39] <craag> huh probably time for bed for me too.
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[23:44] <PB0NER> sleep well! and do not dream about me!
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 8 2013