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[00:19] <MrCraig> [07:02.03] Channel Created on: 6:42 AM 11/26/2006
[00:19] <MrCraig> [07:18.23] <MrCraig> ? What is the primary reason for using radio with tiny output like 25-50mW? is it to prevent from blanketing the airwaves from above?
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[00:41] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Away
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[02:44] <heathkid> no one is around?
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[03:43] <heathkid> anyone?
[03:43] <heathkid> Bueller? Bueller???
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[06:23] <x-f> good morning
[06:24] <x-f> please, clear the tracker for today's launch
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[06:29] <UpuWork> done x-f
[06:29] <x-f> thanks, UpuWork!
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[06:39] <arko> man i hate arduino
[06:40] <arko> jerks with their 5v vcc
[06:40] <x-f> no wind, clear sky, expecting +30C today, gonna be a nice day!
[06:40] <arko> ooo nice
[06:40] <UpuWork> hehe indeed Arko :)
[06:40] <arko> all my devices are 3v and less :(
[06:40] <UpuWork> just remake the Uno
[06:40] <UpuWork> @ 3v
[06:40] <arko> this is what i get for trying to make it open source and easy to make
[06:41] <arko> heh
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[06:57] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[07:05] <Lunar_LanderU> hi RocketBoy
[07:05] <RocketBoy> mornin folks
[07:06] <Lunar_LanderU> once more, world's strangest PCB http://s.gullipics.com/image/4/t/j/ji1rd83-kuk0vm-la65/StrangestPCBintheWorld.png
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[07:16] <fsphil> nice video stilldavid
[07:16] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAm24ZQgHHA
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[07:20] <number10> morning
[07:21] <fsphil> morn
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[07:41] <Lunar_LanderU> ah hi stilldavid and fsphil
[07:44] <x-f> good morning, Kevin
[07:44] <x-f> LAASE team is slowly heading to the launch site
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[07:47] <Joel_re> ooh cool, so I could watch the baloon live on spacenear.us?
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[07:48] <Lunar_LanderU> hi x-f
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[07:51] <Lunar_LanderU> x-f: best of luck with the launch
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[07:55] <fsphil> Joel_re: hopefully :)
[07:56] <charolastra_> launch? where?
[07:56] <fsphil> latvia
[07:56] <fsphil> can be tracked here when it launches: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[08:01] <charolastra_> it's a little far away :)
[08:02] <fsphil> not for people in latvia :)
[08:04] <gonzo_> sky high and six thousand miles away
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[08:06] <Chetic> do I need a heat sink for the raspberry pi in the payload?
[08:06] <fsphil> definitly not for the model A
[08:07] <Chetic> it's a B ofc
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[08:07] <fsphil> the ethernet chip can get hot
[08:07] <fsphil> why B?
[08:07] <Chetic> even if it's not used?
[08:07] <Chetic> because that's what they had in stock
[08:07] <Darkside> its also usb
[08:07] <Darkside> i think
[08:07] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[08:07] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I finally have it done
[08:07] <fsphil> you might be able to turn it off
[08:08] <Chetic> I'll look into that
[08:08] <Chetic> I'm not sure my climate tests will tell me much without the lower pressure
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[08:09] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_LanderU: fixed yur F/B?
[08:09] <Lunar_LanderU> yea, went back to a backup and started again from there
[08:09] <Lunar_LanderU> had to do some traces on the lower side in the end
[08:09] <chrisstubbs> Ah not too bad, beats starting again
[08:11] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[08:11] <Lunar_LanderU> one sec
[08:12] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/l/e/w/ji1rd83-kuk3yi-2wg7/BoardV1Finished.png
[08:20] <Lunar_LanderU> chrisstubbs: what do you think
[08:21] <chrisstubbs> Nice :)
[08:21] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[08:21] <Lunar_LanderU> $34.10 for three at OSH Park
[08:21] <chrisstubbs> will probably be less than that for 10 at hackvana
[08:22] <chrisstubbs> if you plan to self etch them I would suggest bumping the pad sizes and track sizes up (never changed pad sizes in eagle before though(
[08:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[08:22] <chrisstubbs> I sometimes just to touchups like that with a marker pen on bits that look like they might break through when etching
[08:23] <chrisstubbs> Would be cool to get the boards made though
[08:23] <fsphil> who self etches these days?
[08:23] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[08:24] <UpuWork> 50mmx 50mm ~ $18 for 10 via Mitch
[08:24] <x-f> hi, Lunar_LanderU, thanks :)
[08:24] <x-f> filling now
[08:24] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_LanderU: if you use the smash tool you can delete those component values and just keep the names
[08:25] <Lunar_LanderU> you're welcome
[08:25] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[08:25] <chrisstubbs> makes things a little tidier on the sikscreen
[08:25] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
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[08:25] <chrisstubbs> then you can move the labels around to fit as you have one off the board there
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[08:26] <SP9UOB> hi all
[08:26] <SP9UOB> x-f: what about LASSE ?
[08:28] <x-f> SP9UOB, we are filling now
[08:28] <x-f> all looks good
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[08:32] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/c/m/d/ji1rd83-kuk4u5-v15q/BoardV1Finished.png
[08:32] <Lunar_LanderU> like this chrisstubbs ?
[08:32] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: my board is currently 62x71 mm
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[08:41] <Ugi> Lunar_LanderU: nice board - what is a "gamma detector" - detects gamma rays?
[08:42] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah I named it after a MAXIM IC app note
[08:42] <Lunar_LanderU> one sec
[08:42] <Lunar_LanderU> it will register any ionizing radiation with high enough energy
[08:42] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. it is "blind" for alpha as the photodiode is glass covered
[08:42] <Lunar_LanderU> http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2236
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[08:44] <Ugi> cool - are you sending it up on a HAB?
[08:44] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah we plan to
[08:44] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_LanderU: I wonder about solar cells - they're not glass covered
[08:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[08:45] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_LanderU: though making a trap for all light would be fun
[08:45] <Lunar_LanderU> you'd need to have a small cell though
[08:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[08:45] <SpeedEvil> I guess possible for a gas detector
[08:45] <SpeedEvil> Dark current would be a big issue though
[08:46] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[08:47] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[08:50] <Lunar_LanderU> UpuWork: does mitch have a website?
[08:52] <daveake> http://www.hackvana.com/store/
[08:54] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_LanderU: /join #hackvana
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[08:56] <ES5EC> Good day to everybody :-)
[08:57] <ES3AT> hi
[08:57] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Morning People
[08:57] <ES5EC> Question about LAASE start - do you know the locator of the start place?
[08:59] <chrisstubbs> ES5EC: Latvia, Sigulda
[08:59] <ES5EC> Ok, thanks :)
[08:59] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey chrisstubbs :-)
[08:59] <chrisstubbs> Details were posted on the mailing list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/VCsYhbznrZs
[09:00] <chrisstubbs> morning G0TDJ_Steve
[09:00] <G0TDJ_Steve> Keeping well?
[09:00] <chrisstubbs> yeah not bad thanks
[09:01] <chrisstubbs> New tracker boards on order with a better boost regulator :D
[09:01] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool :D Still waiting for these blasted GPSs to make up 3a
[09:01] <chrisstubbs> lol
[09:02] <chrisstubbs> how long has it been? they seem to take about 3 weeks for me
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> I think I may order locally next time. The saving isn't worth the wait
[09:02] <G0TDJ_Steve> I think I@m on that sort of time now...
[09:03] <ES5EC> LAASE launch site locator seems to be about KO27kd
[09:03] <chrisstubbs> they sometimes provide a tracking number for the badly translated china post website
[09:03] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks daveake and chrisstubbs
[09:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> ES5EC the recieving station Veranda is in the vacinity of LASSE launch
[09:03] <ES5EC> aha.. ok :)
[09:03] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, they did but I couldn't work out how to sign up!
[09:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'll just wait
[09:04] <ES5EC> from my location, they are well within 15 degrees of beamwidth
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[09:10] <ES5EC> I have a question about the live tracking
[09:10] <ES5EC> When followin tracking guide
[09:10] <ES5EC> I there are no problems till "Autoconfiguration" should be done
[09:11] <ES5EC> I'm referring http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
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[09:11] <ES5EC> will that tracking window appear only when data starts to come in?
[09:16] <HixWork> ES5EC: Are you estonian? there are slovak http://goo.gl/zt00q7 and latvian http://goo.gl/zt00q7 guides if they help?
[09:17] <mfa298> ES5EC: Autoconfigure will setup the required settings for the flight, the data in the yellow box ($$$$uXABEN... in the example pictures) is what has been decoded locally from the radio signal
[09:17] <ES5EC> hehe.. I can read english good enough... just a small confusion :)
[09:17] <ES5EC> yep, I figured out
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[09:18] <mfa298> The green bar shows the most recent sentence and whether it's been decoded successfully (green) or not (red)
[09:18] <ES5EC> I actually ment that the view: http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:selecting.jpeg?id=guides%3Atracking_guide
[09:18] <ES5EC> doesn't appear
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[09:19] <mfa298> you need to make sure you've started the HAB version
[09:19] <ES5EC> I have still the usual FLDigi display
[09:19] <ES5EC> DL-FLDigi
[09:19] <ES5EC> ?
[09:19] <mfa298> that sounds line you started the non HAB version
[09:20] <ES5EC> I have the one where I can set up habitat etcx
[09:20] <ES5EC> let me check download site once again
[09:20] <mfa298> when you installed dl-fldigi it normally installs two links in the start menu (and/or desktop) one gives the normal fldigi display the other runs it with the HAB extensions
[09:21] <mfa298> you want to start the one marked "DL-FLDIGI (HAB Mode)"
[09:21] <ES5EC> mmm.. ok
[09:21] <ES5EC> hehe
[09:21] <ES5EC> thanks a lot
[09:21] <ES5EC> got it
[09:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> LASSE on the map
[09:22] <ES5EC> (Y)
[09:22] <mfa298> no problems, I think a few people have had that issue (I wonder if the documentation isn't clear enough)
[09:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> Sorry LAASE not LASSE
[09:25] <x-f> LAASE launched
[09:25] Action: SpeedEvil predicts that LAASE will land next to a well, with a small boy trapped.
[09:27] <x-f> that dascent rate oesnt look like the one we were aiming for..
[09:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> x-f: You mean ascent?
[09:28] <ES5EC> Seems, that all is OK with guide, I just did not know anything about hab mode (it's well said in guide: "Open up dl-fldigi in hab mode")
[09:28] <x-f> ascent, yes
[09:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> x-f: What's it's predicted max altitude?
[09:29] <x-f> 33 km
[09:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool, I've got a chance of decoding (just)
[09:30] <x-f> from where, G0TDJ_Steve? :)
[09:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> UK Just south of R.Thames
[09:31] <ES5EC> decoding in Tartu :)
[09:32] <x-f> thanks, ES5EC :)
[09:32] <ES5EC> S/N 26+ dB
[09:33] <ES5EC> what is interesting
[09:33] <ES5EC> that frequency actually is not completely stable
[09:33] <ES5EC> it moves back and forth with sinusoid-like pattern
[09:34] <ES5EC> the shift is very small, though
[09:34] <x-f> yeah, it should be more stable, hmm
[09:34] <x-f> the balloon is still above us, we see it :)
[09:35] <ES5EC> that shift is about 20 Hz or so
[09:35] <ES5EC> Doppler? :)
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[09:37] <x-f> 3.9 km, we still see it, it's above us :)
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[09:38] <ES5EC> and that's 10 mW?
[09:38] <x-f> yep
[09:38] <ES5EC> Fine business in that case :)
[09:38] <ES5EC> S/N ~ 30 dB
[09:38] <x-f> LOS (tm) :)
[09:39] <gonzo_> line of sight, or loss of signal
[09:39] <x-f> line of sight..
[09:40] <gonzo_> difficult when a TLA is used for different things within the same subjest
[09:40] <mfa298> I assume Loss of Signal would be defined as: LOS (tm) :(
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[09:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> x-f: Has LAASE got APRS on board?
[09:47] <x-f> no, just RTTY
[09:47] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK
[09:48] <gonzo_> for satellite there is AOS TCA and LOS
[09:48] <gonzo_> being loss of sig
[09:48] <G0TDJ_Steve> What's TCA gonzo_ ?
[09:49] <ES5EC> APRS would be pretty interesting
[09:49] <gonzo_> time of closest aproach
[09:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh cheers
[09:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> ES5EC: Might not be permissible in Latvia. I know there's restrictions all over the EU
[09:50] <ES5EC> I'm not sure, too...
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[09:50] <ES5EC> 2m is available for radio amateurs in Latvia, too
[09:51] <mfa298> the bit that normally causes issues is whether amateur radio is allowed airborne
[09:52] <mfa298> the standard RTTY approach uses the license free ISM band (which just happens to fall within the 70cms amateur band)
[09:52] <Joel_re> what transmitter are these guys using?
[09:53] <ES5EC> that's true
[09:53] <Joel_re> any post on the hardware?
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[09:56] <Lunar_LanderU> Joel_re: should be Radiometrix NTX2
[09:57] <Joel_re> what uC and are there measuring external temperature there?
[09:57] <Lunar_LanderU> that I don't know unfortunately
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[09:58] <Joel_re> ah, well the map displays external temp
[09:58] <Joel_re> so Im wondering if thats being sent over RTTY as well
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[10:02] <mfa298> Joel_re: anything displayed on the info box should have gone over RTTY
[10:02] <mfa298> take a look at the communications protocol so see how the data is sent
[10:02] <Joel_re> ok
[10:03] <Joel_re> thanks
[10:03] <mfa298> ^^ that link describes it
[10:03] <ES5EC> S/N is from time to time close to 40 dB
[10:03] <ES5EC> typically about 35 dB
[10:04] <ES5EC> I wonder if there is anyone receiving LAASE from Finland..
[10:05] <x-f> there should be one in Helsinki, that i tried to recruite from the ##rtlsdr channel
[10:06] <Joel_re> love how the prediction is exact
[10:07] <charolastra_> helsinki is not quite 300km away, what's the usual reception range for you guys?
[10:07] <mfa298> the prediction on the map will update based on what's happening on the flight. You might find the predicted landing spot will change as the balloon bursts
[10:07] <Joel_re> ok
[10:08] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza
[10:08] <gonzo_> ES5EC, just drag the mouse over the balloon track on the spacenear, and it will show the stations rxing the packets atr that point in the track
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[10:09] <ES5EC> ok, thanks for note
[10:10] <Joel_re> what are the two rings acound the balloon when you zoom out?
[10:10] <Joel_re> the green, blue ones
[10:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> The blue one is the zero degree horizon, the green is five degrees
[10:11] <mfa298> the blue circle indicates that for listeners on the blue circle that balloon would be on their horizon
[10:12] <mfa298> with the assumption that you are at 0m ASL and there are no hills or other obstacles
[10:12] <x-f> LAASE team is on the road now
[10:12] <chrisstubbs> charolastra_: it will vary a lot with baud rate, antenna setup on tx, antenna setup on rx
[10:12] <mfa298> it's a guide as yo when you might hear the balloon
[10:12] <Joel_re> ok
[10:12] <chrisstubbs> up to about 700km has been seen before I think
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[10:12] <HixWork> charolastra_: >400km on 50 baud is not unheard of
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[10:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> HixWork: So the chances of hearing in the UK are pretty slim
[10:13] <charolastra_> interesting, so it's over the radio horrizon and still receiving
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[10:14] <mfa298> I think the record is just over 800km distance.
[10:15] <HixWork> G0TDJ_Steve: I would say it would be pushing things to Rx from London
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK Thanks
[10:15] <HixWork> though I am by no means an expert
[10:15] <HixWork> or very informed for that matter ;)
[10:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> :-)
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[10:19] <Ugi> I took my tracker for a drive at the weekend - to check that it was receiving GPS data correctly. Has anyone else noticed that their car central locking does not work with the tracker running?
[10:20] <daveake> Yup very common
[10:20] <Ugi> I assume it's a frequency clash
[10:20] <Ugi> Glad it wasn't just my immagination
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[10:21] <daveake> UpuWork's car can't be opened at all if there's a tracker on the wrong frequency
[10:21] <daveake> We've had to put the tracker inside my BBQ before now :)
[10:21] <UpuWork> german quality...
[10:21] <HixWork> $$$HickoryHAB
[10:21] <x-f> ES5PC, ES5EC thanks for tracking
[10:22] <x-f> and everyone else, too
[10:22] <gonzo_> last flight, I had to take the tracker out of the car and hide it under a bicky tin in the garden to get my immobiliser disabled
[10:22] <x-f> i' ve lost the count :)
[10:23] <gonzo_> worrying how susceptable the cat systems are. get some interference and there is no way to move the car.
[10:23] <HixWork> just keep an 808 in the glovebox ;p
[10:24] <gonzo_> The AA?RAC only method is to tow you half a mile away and try again
[10:26] <gonzo_> with a tracker soaking in the house, I can't get into the car. I know it's there, but wonder how the rest of the neigbours are getting on?
[10:28] <HixWork> This alone makes me want an LMT2 :D
[10:30] Nick change: MichaelC|Away -> MichaelC
[10:31] <Ugi> It would make a pretty annoying April 1st prank on someone - tracker under the car.
[10:34] <HixWork> I've got some neighbours that continually have friends around who park anywhere they fancy. a couple of weeks ago a freind of theirs blocked someone in their drive for all of Sat eve and sunday day.
[10:35] <HixWork> they deserve a free tracker
[10:37] <mfa298> although in that situation you want it to only activate on a delay (after they've stopped blocking the driveway)
[10:39] <HixWork> nah, charge them £300 to "reprogramme" their central locking and key ;p
[10:40] <HixWork> I reckon just opening up SDR# with an RTLSDR would baffle the hell out of them :D
[10:42] <ES5EC> LAASE S/N is now from 10 ... 30 dB, sometimes drops suddenly
[10:42] <ES5EC> antenna pattern issue?
[10:43] <gonzo_> had similar at a place I was lodging once. They got the hint not to park where they did, when they found their car 100yds down the road on double yellows with a parking ticket. (and two flats on the back tyres where we towed it with the hand braek on
[10:45] <HixWork> ha :D
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[10:46] <WillTablet> Oh what a surpise.
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[10:46] <WillTablet> Parcelforce failed to deliver my parcel.
[10:46] <WillTablet> I wonder if they've heard of neighbours.
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[10:47] <ES5PC> Here we have constantly good SNR from LAASE
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[10:48] <ES5PC> Signal is slightly stronger in vertical polarization
[10:48] <WillHelm> Is suppose this means they failed to deliver it http://www.parcelforce.com/track-trace?trackNumber=UF3542924&page_type=parcel-tracking-details&parcel_number=PBUF3542924001
[10:49] <ES5EC> Pause 15 minutes, ESTCube-1 is sending a picture and we are receiving it at ES5EC :)
[10:49] <ES5PC> Tracking LAASE here at Tartu Observatory using a 3m dish antenna
[10:49] <x-f> serious setup
[10:49] <WillHelm> Saleae logic should fit through the letterbox, right?
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[10:52] <HixWork> WillHelm: you can arrange to collect it
[10:52] <gonzo_> unless it's a signed-for delivery
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[10:53] <gonzo_> x-f 3mtr dish is only a baby
[10:57] <WillHelm> Qell
[10:57] <WillHelm> Well
[10:57] <WillHelm> It might mean they have delivered it,
[10:57] <WillHelm> I'll see if there's a card through the letterbox.
[10:57] <WillHelm> When I get home.
[10:58] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[10:58] <HixWork> it would state delivered, attempted means it failed WillHelm as in ParcelFail
[10:59] <mfa298> I suspect it would be signed for delivery so potentially it's parcelfail doing the right thing.
[10:59] <gonzo_> depending on the driver, sometimes they fake a signature and stuff it through the letterbox. or even just leave it by the door in one case!
[11:00] <mfa298> The worst I had was them sign for it using my name and stick it through the letter box.
[11:00] <mfa298> I wouldn't mind so much if they used their own name
[11:00] <WillHelm> Meh
[11:00] <WillHelm> Why though?
[11:00] <WillHelm> I don't think it is signed for.
[11:00] <WillHelm> It was 7 euros.
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[11:00] <gonzo_> have that regularly. with a randon wiggle for the signature
[11:01] <gonzo_> don't mind posted stuff. But left by the door......
[11:01] <gonzo_> had one courier leave the card saying, item left in blue bin on driveway. That was the recycle bin, on recycle day
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> Oh dear.
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[11:02] <SpeedEvil> Couriers not properly employing their delivery agents causes all sorts of nasty stuff.
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[11:03] <ES5EC> seems that better RTTY shift for LAASE is about 570 Hz
[11:04] <x-f> it burst
[11:04] <x-f> :/
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[11:05] <ES5EC> already?
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[11:07] <x-f> yeah
[11:07] <x-f> dunno why, was expected to go higher
[11:07] <x-f> ES5EC, shift is affected by the tmperature
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[11:13] <x-f> coming down fast..
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[11:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> That was a quick flight x-f
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[11:22] <x-f> yeah, sorry :(
[11:23] <x-f> i think we did everything right with the filling aand launching
[11:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> No apology necessary
[11:23] <x-f> we're on GRAVEL LROAD, NOT GREAT FOR WRITING
[11:23] <ES5EC> signal dropped suddenly to about 0
[11:23] <x-f> ugh, caps too
[11:24] <ES5EC> at 2km elevation
[11:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> It did go up awfully quick. Maybe some of the more experienced guys can help in ascertaining what went wrong
[11:24] <ES5EC> OK, LOS here
[11:25] <ES5EC> x-f, but seems that you are lucky when talking about recovery :-D
[11:25] <ES5PC> Signal lost here too
[11:26] <ES5PC> last frames received at about 1000m height
[11:26] <ES5EC> umm
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[11:26] <ES5EC> seems, that you are driving past landing site?
[11:27] <G0TDJ_Steve> I hope they manage to recover OK - ES5EC They may be able to recieve onboard but it's not being reflected on the map
[11:27] <ES5EC> aha
[11:27] <ES5EC> yep
[11:27] <x-f> we see the signal on the waterfall but not strong enough yet
[11:28] <G0TDJ_Steve> I hope it missed the trees
[11:28] <ES5EC> HI HI I like your driving... using reverse gear ;-) . o O ( according to tracker page ;-) )
[11:29] <x-f> yeah, to eager to get to the landing site, shoot past the right turn :)
[11:29] <ES5EC> there is very good chance that it landed just on plain next to road
[11:30] <ES5PC> We have now SDR recordings of the LAASE flight available.
[11:31] <ES5EC> I have too, had some pause, but most of the flight is covered
[11:31] <G0TDJ_Steve> x-f: Is sig getting stronger now?
[11:32] <x-f> yeah, almost decoding
[11:32] <x-f> survived the wast descent at least
[11:32] <ES5EC> you are almost next to it, right?
[11:32] <x-f> fast*
[11:32] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yes, THe map just updated
[11:33] <G0TDJ_Steve> YOu must have decoded
[11:33] <ES5EC> oh
[11:33] <ES5EC> in the forest
[11:33] <x-f> yep, there are some trees
[11:34] <G0TDJ_Steve> About 50m away...
[11:35] <SP9UOB> x-f: in the tree ?
[11:35] <x-f> dunno, we're in the car, preparing to go
[11:35] <G0TDJ_Steve> Good Luck
[11:35] <SP9UOB> good luck!
[11:36] <x-f> thanks, guys
[11:36] <ES5EC> good luck, that was fun :)
[11:36] <x-f> ES5EC, thanks for tracking :)
[11:36] <x-f> there will be LAASE-3 too
[11:37] <ES5EC> great
[11:37] <x-f> actually we hear the beeper from here..
[11:37] <ES5EC> let us know little-bit more in advance :)
[11:37] <G0TDJ_Steve> Excellent
[11:37] <x-f> ES5EC, what's the best way to contact you?
[11:37] <ES5EC> I hope that YOTA guys received the balloon, too
[11:37] <ES5EC> just write
[11:37] <ES5EC> es5e@estcube.eu
[11:38] <x-f> cool, thansk
[11:38] Action: G0TDJ_Steve Note to self: check http://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas regularly
[11:38] <daveake> Do you have a chainsaw? :p
[11:39] <ES5EC> GL and 73!
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[11:41] <SP9UOB> daveake: chainsaw becoming a must-have tool for HAB recovery ;-)
[11:41] <SP9UOB> i have 3 payloads in 30m high trees
[11:41] <daveake> It is.
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[11:42] <daveake> I bought a saw
[11:42] <daveake> Same model as used for the LOHAN recovert
[11:42] <daveake> y
[11:42] <daveake> Required recovery kit - http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee237/jpr9954/DSCN0381.jpg
[11:43] <daveake> Car seems to be driving into the forest :p
[11:44] <chrisstubbs> Not had to use my tree recovery kit yet
[11:44] Action: chrisstubbs keeps fingeres crossed
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[11:44] <daveake> Usual thing - more you have less you need
[11:44] <SP9UOB> well its really hard to cut tree with 30cm trunk
[11:44] Nick change: BK -> Guest39821
[11:44] <SP9UOB> with that saw :-)
[11:44] <daveake> yup
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[11:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> Latvia must have a pretty good GSM infrastructure for us to be seeing these updates.
[11:45] <HixWork> stick a beaver in the boot, on losing payload instruct said beaver to commence the lodge making process
[11:45] <daveake> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eckman-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Rechargeable-Chainsaw/dp/B00D1SKBFW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1375789510&sr=8-4&keywords=rechargeable+chainsaw
[11:45] <HixWork> sit back and relax
[11:46] <daveake> Max 25cm though
[11:46] <SP9UOB> hmmm well -trained beaver ilooks promising :-)
[11:46] <daveake> and take portable BBQ
[11:46] <G0TDJ_Steve> HixWork: Just don't relax in the fall zone!
[11:47] <HixWork> I have a friend who could be useful, though he now lives in Vancuover :/ http://goo.gl/u71EGd
[11:47] <daveake> He's OK
[11:48] <daveake> car now parked under payload :p
[11:48] <HixWork> did that at YVR customs when asked what does your friend do for work
[11:48] <daveake> haha
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[11:50] <HixWork> went down like a cup of cold sick with them. deadpan wasn't the word
[11:50] <daveake> It's a requirement of the job
[11:53] <HixWork> that is a mean stihl though
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[11:54] <x-f> LAASE recovered :))
[11:54] <G0TDJ_Steve> \o/ YAY! Well done x-f :-)
[11:54] <x-f> was cold inside
[11:54] <x-f> thansk :)
[11:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Was it up high?
[11:55] <YL3GV> good job!!
[11:55] <x-f> on the ground
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> x-f: yay well done
[11:55] <G0TDJ_Steve> Cool, Lucky
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> so this has been the second HAB in Latvia?
[11:55] <x-f> balloon remnants was in the tree but got them down
[11:55] <x-f> parachute was entangled :P
[11:56] <G0TDJ_Steve> Which is why it came down so fast
[11:56] <x-f> Lunar_LanderU, second ours, fourth total maybe
[11:57] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[11:58] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right, better get some lunch sorted out. Nice one x-f, looking forward to LAASE-3 :-) Catch you later
[11:58] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[11:58] <SP9UOB> congratulations!
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[11:59] <daveake> nice
[11:59] <x-f> :)
[11:59] <daveake> The fast descent probably helped it find its way through the tree :)
[12:01] <HixWork> So, I started a new gig yesterday. Today I have uncovered a document [I can't share it] but it pertains to "a sensor-less motion Detection, Control & Monitoring technology for brushed DC motors"
[12:01] <HixWork> this could be very interesting for HAB camera purposes
[12:04] <flamesnm> gents. Just taken delivery of a GPS module ( ublox max 6 module with antenna ) with a view to hooking it to a Pi.
[12:04] <flamesnm> For initial tooling around, I'm going to put it together with a breadboard. Just wondering what you do for the flight payload ?
[12:05] <flamesnm> Is soldering direct between the two the preferred option ?
[12:05] <daveake> Generally, get a protyping board for the Pi and solder it to that
[12:06] <flamesnm> Thanks daveake. Do you send the breadboard up with the payload ?
[12:06] <daveake> No never
[12:06] <daveake> Breadboard is good enough at falling apart on the bench, let alone when thrown around in a payload
[12:07] <HixWork> here's some info that is oout there already in the interwebs http://goo.gl/qiXyMN http://goo.gl/BJLdQi babs may be interested
[12:07] <flamesnm> :)
[12:07] <flamesnm> You haven't seen my soldering 'skills'
[12:07] <chrisstubbs> HixWork: strangley i was reading a simalar thing today
[12:07] <chrisstubbs> back emf from the coils style?
[12:07] <mfa298> soldering skills can be improved
[12:08] <daveake> Breadboard can't
[12:08] <daveake> Well it can. Throw it into an inferno. That improves it no end.
[12:08] <mfa298> fixing a breadboard payload when its in the air is near impossible
[12:08] <HixWork> don't you mean protoboard flamesnm ?
[12:08] <flamesnm> Good points.
[12:09] <daveake> This kind of thing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K001-Humble-Pi-add-on-Raspberry-Pi-big-prototype-area-proto-bread-board-/221261958768?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item33843d8e70
[12:09] Action: SpeedEvil imagines flooding breadboard with 50C melting solder.
[12:09] <flamesnm> If I used them interchangably
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[12:09] <HixWork> not read too much chrisstubbs but interesting enough to share
[12:09] <flamesnm> that would be bad, right ?
[12:09] <flamesnm> :)
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[12:10] <flamesnm> OK. Got it. Thanks all.
[12:10] <mfa298> several people have had issues with their payload even on the bench when using breadboard. moving to some sort of stripboard/protoboard/veroboard has fixed all those issues.
[12:12] <flamesnm> I'll order one up.
[12:13] <HixWork> flamesnm: you can get 10 50mm ^2 boards for $19 delivered..... prototype it then make a real pcb... cost is stupidly low
[12:13] <Joel_re> has it burst yet?
[12:14] <HixWork> Joel_re: recovered from a tree
[12:14] <Joel_re> cool :)
[12:14] <HixWork> "[12:54] <x-f> LAASE recovered :))"
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[12:16] <flamesnm> Cheers HixWork. You got a preference for supplier ?
[12:16] <Joel_re> what was the total distance from launch site?
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[12:16] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[12:18] <HixWork> flamesnm: head over to #hackvana there's plenty of #Highaltitude guys on there and using his services
[12:19] <HixWork> flamesnm: like stratodean http://goo.gl/XbuuXR
[12:19] <flamesnm> Will do.
[12:20] <flamesnm> First time on here today. Thanks for your help.
[12:21] <daveake> For a first flight, I recommend getting the protyping board rather than designing your own PCB.
[12:21] <daveake> There's enough to learn as it is
[12:21] <Joel_re> which prototyping board?
[12:23] <flamesnm> Wil do. I'm a long way off flight, but I've got a minimal payload planned out and all the components are spread out in front of me.
[12:23] <flamesnm> First flight will be bobby basic.
[12:23] <HixWork> flamesnm: http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/prototyping/strip-boards
[12:28] <flamesnm> Humble pi ordered.
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[12:34] <Joel_re> what battery pack do you guys use for the pi?
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[12:37] <daveake> You can use an external switching regulator (£1-something on ebay) and 6 Energizer Lithium batteries
[12:38] <daveake> See http://www.daveakerman.com/?page_id=1294 for other possibilities
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[12:53] <Joel_re> ok
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[12:55] <WillTablet> Someone remind me never to complain about my internet at home.
[12:55] <WillTablet> Because this is far worse
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[12:57] <cde> it's not the bandwidth of it. it's how you use it ;)
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[12:58] <WillTablet> Well
[12:58] <WillTablet> It's absolutely shit though.
[12:58] Action: mfa298 hopes Will never has to try and fix stuff over a 9600bd serial link.
[12:58] <WillTablet> Haha
[12:58] <cde> back in my day...
[12:58] <WillTablet> Wait the ubx works at 9600bd
[12:59] <WillTablet> Back in your day it was 56k, which is what it is here pretty much.
[13:00] <WillTablet> Is the conference qa able to take questions over IRC?
[13:00] <mfa298> I'm not sure anyone ever actually saw 56k
[13:00] <gonzo_> I've doen ssh over 1200bd half duplex packet, for a laugh
[13:00] <gonzo_> and it wasn't a laugh!
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[13:01] <mfa298> unfortunately my 9600bd serial wasn't for a laugh. That was trying to fix a network from remotely from the non working area.
[13:01] <chrisstubbs> WillTablet: I expect so
[13:01] <chrisstubbs> if they are relevant
[13:01] <WillTablet> Of couse.
[13:01] <WillTablet> Coutse
[13:02] <WillTablet> Couese
[13:02] <WillTablet> Course
[13:02] <gonzo_> try again
[13:02] <cde> success!
[13:02] <gonzo_> 9600bd packet was better. Would not want to rely on it though
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[13:02] <WillTablet> Is where did you get that shirt from relevant?
[13:02] <gonzo_> (done over 80mtrs too!)
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[13:05] <WillTablet> Why can't you send lithium batteries over royal mail?
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[13:08] <chrisstubbs> becuase royal mail stuck
[13:08] <chrisstubbs> *suck
[13:08] <chrisstubbs> like I suck at typing
[13:08] <WillTablet> But why
[13:09] <daveake> and http://www.royalmail.com/termschanges
[13:10] <HixWork> because http://goo.gl/aAluca
[13:11] <WillTablet> Right
[13:11] <WillTablet> So basically it might be unsafe and blow up a plane?
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[13:12] <HixWork> not on a domestic delivery no.
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[13:12] <chrisstubbs> Probably after the lithium-airbus accident
[13:12] <HixWork> "cannabis, cocaine, heroin, LSD, opium and amyl nitrate" are all banned!?!
[13:13] Action: chrisstubbs chases after postman
[13:13] <gonzo_> don't bite his ankles!
[13:14] <HixWork> Category A Infectious Substances are prohibited e.g. Ebola, Anthrax, Foot and Mouth disease - jesus, they really are no fun are they
[13:15] <gonzo_> cat B : pot noodles, McShite burgers....
[13:19] <WillTablet> Dammit
[13:19] <WillTablet> The royal mail won't send them..
[13:20] <HixWork> They will deliver vertain insects though
[13:20] <HixWork> *certain
[13:20] <WillTablet> Now our multi million pound drug smuggling scheme won't work
[13:20] <WillTablet> Not because it's illegal
[13:21] <WillTablet> Because the royal mail won't send it.
[13:23] <HixWork> smuggling wouldn't work with them anyhow, they screen international deliveries. You'd be better off using Yodel, they barely know about delivery, so I guess the screening is not gonna happen there
[13:23] <mfa298> better off get someone else to use Yodel, there's more chance you'll get the package that way!
[13:23] <HixWork> *please seek advise from a professional smuggler before carrying this out. I can not be held liable for shootouts and imprisonment
[13:24] <HixWork> *advice
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[13:24] <chrisstubbs> HixWork: your yodel comment nearly made me spray 7up all over my desk
[13:24] <WillTablet> A HAB could be used for smuggling.
[13:24] <WillTablet> Why chrisstubbs?
[13:24] <HixWork> that rally isnt a euphemism is it
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> I had a mouthful of it
[13:24] <HixWork> *really
[13:24] <HixWork> 1 line ++ 1 typo
[13:24] <chrisstubbs> and burst out laughing
[13:26] Action: HixWork is available for Bar Mitzvahs and funerals ;p
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[13:26] <Joel_re> do you guys use ssdv for images often?
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[13:27] <chrisstubbs> Joel_re: daveake does
[13:27] <chrisstubbs> others have used JPEG ttl cameras with an arduino
[13:27] <gonzo_> always, just not ofetn
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[13:27] <Joel_re> ok, does it need a hefty micro or you have to go with the pi?
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[13:34] <mfa298> Joel_re: I believe it's possibly on something like an arduino but getting suitable hardware is harder. Pi is easier as you've got more memory to store data whilst you send it.
[13:35] <chrisstubbs> However just trying to use a pi for a traker is total overkill. For SSDV its justfied
[13:37] <WillTablet> But using it as a tracker is OK, even without ssdv, if you're testing it and plan to add ssdv.
[13:40] <Joel_re> hmm
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[13:44] <mfa298> overall for a basic tracker an arduino will be lighter, and potentially easier to interface things to but if your happier using a Pi there's nothing wrong with it.
[13:45] <Joel_re> I have a msp430 launchpad board Im going to try to use
[13:45] <daveake> Well .... you can use whatever you like for a tracker but there are pros and cons, and really the decision should be based mainly on what is best for the task. There's little justification for using the Pi as a simple tracker - it's inherebntly heavier and has more failure modes than a simple Arduino tracker
[13:45] <Joel_re> if I completely fail at it, I'll try the arduino
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[13:46] <daveake> That said, I've flown the Pi 7 times and it hasn't skipped a beat, but you might get a bit distressed if for example your tracker stopped tracking because the SD card came loose
[13:46] <Reactive> lol
[13:47] <Joel_re> heh
[13:47] <Reactive> critical point of failure there
[13:47] <Joel_re> solder all connections
[13:47] <WillTablet> Like I'm using the BBB
[13:47] <daveake> It is if your tracker program logs to SS card
[13:47] <daveake> If it doesn't you're ok :)
[13:47] <daveake> SD
[13:47] <WillTablet> And now all I have to do is write the parser and it will be working.
[13:47] <Reactive> yeah i've been stressing about that myself actually
[13:47] <daveake> But yes once you decide to SSDV then it all makes more sense
[13:48] <Reactive> i'll use a netduino, and i've encountered some weird IO issues with the sd card modules
[13:48] <daveake> Camera is a lot cheaper and a lot lot lot better quality than a serial camera for an Arduino
[13:48] <Joel_re> has anyone tried recieved 3G, it should be available upto 2km up there
[13:48] <Joel_re> ?
[13:48] <Reactive> daveake: you talking about a gopro or something?
[13:48] <mfa298> Also if you're a master Python programmer and have no idea about C you might decide that the chance of your C code on an arduino failing is a greater risk than using a Pi with python.
[13:48] <Reactive> i've heard reports of 10km before
[13:48] <daveake> And once you've made the jump, you can take HD pix or video for storage, and then you've got a GoPro for £40
[13:49] <Reactive> where the hell do you get a gopro for 40 pounds?
[13:49] <daveake> I added 3G to one Pi flight. Worked up to 300m
[13:49] <WillTablet> Ping Upu you know the pcb you gave ibanezmatt13 with the ntx2 and ubx? You couldn't give me the schematic for it could you?
[13:49] <Joel_re> oh, sad
[13:49] <daveake> Reactive Read what I said - a Pi and Pi cam give you what a gopro gives you, but without the horrible distortion
[13:50] <Reactive> oh, really?
[13:50] <Reactive> sorry I jumped in the middle of half a conversation there :(
[13:50] <WillTablet> Is it possible to desolder a ubx from the breakout?
[13:50] <daveake> Full (1080p) HD video. 5MP stills. Plenty enough for HAB
[13:51] <Reactive> daveake: you helped me setup sdrradio for my funcube, right?
[13:51] <daveake> Nah not me
[13:51] <Reactive> you sure?
[13:51] <daveake> Also, for SSDV, you can do things like take several photos and choose which to download
[13:51] <daveake> Yes
[13:51] <daveake> I think
[13:51] <Reactive> what is SSDV?
[13:51] <daveake> "Live" images over the radio link
[13:51] <daveake> Sunday's flight is pusshing the Pi a bit further but I'm not saying how yet :)
[13:52] <Reactive> actually thats what I came here to find out
[13:52] <HixWork> daveake: does the Pi cam handle light changes as well as the GoPro?
[13:52] <Reactive> how do you receive telemetry with the funcube?
[13:52] <daveake> Not done a comparison but it does well
[13:52] <HixWork> hmmm
[13:52] <WillTablet> daveake I'm surprised you didn't tell him to google it.
[13:53] Action: HixWork has a pi sitting lying around doing nowt
[13:53] <Reactive> I have been googling my ass off
[13:53] Action: WillTablet too
[13:53] <mfa298> If you're after a picam be quick, looks like RS are already out of stock and farnell are low (/me makes note to send order today)
[13:53] <Reactive> WillTablet: how do you navigate that wiki?
[13:53] <WillTablet> Meaning?
[13:53] <Reactive> because everyone keeps posting my solutions there but I have no idea how you get to those pages?
[13:54] <HixWork> WillTablet: http://goo.gl/XmcB2D
[13:54] <bertrik> daveake: Sunday's flight will send animated gifs over SSDV? :D
[13:54] <mfa298> Reactive: mostly people know stuff is there and then we use google to find it.
[13:54] <HixWork> Reactive: just hit the search window, it's good, gets proper results
[13:54] <mfa298> It is suspected that the wiki knows the meaning of life but we've not found that page yet.
[13:54] <Reactive> oh, so it's alright to ask? :)
[13:54] <Reactive> haha
[13:54] <WillTablet> Well
[13:54] <WillTablet> Not before google
[13:55] <Reactive> of course
[13:55] <HixWork> mfa298: http://ukhas.org.uk/&pg=42
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[13:55] <Joel_re> Im looking for what antennas I need for the chase or tracking on the ground
[13:55] Action: WillTablet politely reminds mfa298 that /me doesn't work unless it's done as a command.
[13:55] <Joel_re> are there any I can build
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[13:56] <WillTablet> Magmounts are popular, I think
[13:57] <Reactive> I bought a magmount last week, i'm hoping it'll perform well for my tracking
[13:57] <Reactive> WillTablet: are there alternatives?
[13:57] <gonzo_> drill a hole in the roof and bolt a mount
[13:58] <mfa298> Magmounts are good for chasing in a car.
[13:58] <WillTablet> Yes, but they are best for cars
[13:58] <mfa298> for chasing at home most people use some form of vertical antenna.
[13:58] <Reactive> 430 range?
[13:58] <WillTablet> Urgh
[13:58] <WillTablet> No ad clicks on my blog
[13:58] <daveake> chasing at home?
[13:58] <WillTablet> Almost no views.
[13:58] <daveake> Interesting occupation
[13:59] <mfa298> ok tracking at home.
[13:59] <daveake> :)
[13:59] <WillTablet> I think I need pictures on http://willdover.co.uk
[13:59] <gonzo_> drilling is best RF wise. If you have gutters you can use a gutter mount clamp. or a boot lid mount for hatchback/estate cars. Mag mount is the quickest to deploy
[13:59] <mfa298> unless you have a campervan in which case you could chase at home (although a magmount might be better then)
[13:59] <Reactive> is there a way to decode satellite telemetry with dl-fldigi ?
[13:59] <Reactive> and is decoding satellite telemetry a thing?
[14:00] <gonzo_> depends what sat you are taliing about
[14:00] <gonzo_> talking
[14:00] <Reactive> whatever I can find I guess?
[14:00] <Reactive> are there any floating around that transmit unencrypted data?
[14:00] <gonzo_> most of the sats are educational cube sats, there is the FunCube coming up soon too
[14:01] <gonzo_> all the ones using the AR bands MUST be unencrypted and open protocol
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[14:01] <Reactive> oh
[14:01] <Reactive> is there a database of them you know about?
[14:01] <gonzo_> they all tend to use thir own decode programs. But should be as easy to use as fl-duigi
[14:01] <gonzo_> stby
[14:02] <gonzo_> from the amsat.org site there is: http://oscar.dcarr.org/
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[14:03] <gonzo_> that's a quick status at a glance view. I think there are links to each sat's info page
[14:03] <Reactive> oooh i came across that link earlier
[14:03] <Reactive> i download a program called MSSTV or something
[14:03] <Reactive> but I have _no_ idea how to use that
[14:03] <HixWork> Willdude123: why have you got adverts on the blog?
[14:04] <gonzo_> a vertical whip may get you some data. Ideally you woudl want a yagi antenna. Doed not need to be huge. And can be hand pointed to start with
[14:04] <gonzo_> msstv is a slow scan analogue program.
[14:04] <gonzo_> Mainly used on HF bands
[14:04] <Reactive> i have a diamond x200 2m/70cm
[14:05] <gonzo_> listen aroing 14.240 (I think?) and you may head some data with a sweeping ans scratching tone. That is your SSTV
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[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Boot mounts also clip on to rear doors quite well see http://www.g8dhe.net/bongo_images/DSC_6001.JPG
[14:05] <bertrik> Reactive: at hackerspace revspace, the hague, netherlands, we have a diamond x50 at 6m up + habamp, works quite well
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[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oops that should be http://www.g8dhe.net/bongo_images/DSC_6001.thn.JPG
[14:06] <gonzo_> the diamond shoudl work for sat RX. May not get the whole of the pass, but worth a try to start with
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[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Or go for the whole Hog with radome as well http://www.g8dhe.net/pictures/2013/06/dscf5489.thn.jpg
[14:09] <WillTablet> wow
[14:09] <WillTablet> I get 4 bars wifi at the end of by bed and one at the back
[14:10] <gonzo_> duvet attenuation?
[14:11] <daveake> Doesn't have blanket coverage
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[14:14] <WillTablet> daveake I really like the ted bull name
[14:15] <daveake> I like the motto
[14:15] <WillTablet> Remind me how many rpis are flying that flight?
[14:15] <daveake> "More Altitude; Less Attitude"
[14:15] <daveake> 2
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[14:20] <WillTablet> Why 31 m above felix's altitude and not just at the same altitude
[14:20] <WillTablet> ?
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[14:22] <daveake> Because
[14:26] <chrisstubbs> should be 3.141m above ;)
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[14:28] <chrisstubbs> Hometime :D
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[14:35] <WillTablet> Just read the MIT report on Aaron Swartz
[14:38] <WillTablet> Quite interesting
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[14:56] <charolastra_> was it from before or after his death?
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[15:01] <Brace> after
[15:02] <Brace> it's their report on their handling of the whole incident
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[15:07] <HixWork> is the added 31m to steal 100' from the record?
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[15:12] <HixWork> aha greetings Babs__ look what I found today in connection with work http://goo.gl/qiXyMN http://goo.gl/BJLdQi
[15:13] <HixWork> thought it may be of interest
[15:14] <Babs__> So motor as servo then?
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds-jtwXbLAk - sort-of-related.
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[15:15] <SpeedEvil> (Low pressure - anyway - vacuum evapotation)
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[15:20] <Joel_re> SpeedEvil \0/
[15:21] <eroomde> bigger motors rewound for low revs are definitely nicer than servos
[15:21] <eroomde> in principle and practice
[15:22] <eroomde> servos, at least rc hobby servos, have lots of gear reduction, and every gear stage introduces backlash
[15:22] <eroomde> and other nasties
[15:23] <Babs__> Backlash being what?
[15:23] <Babs__> Morning eroomde
[15:23] <HixWork> the whole idea of encoding based on the noise from the commutators is excellent
[15:23] <HixWork> play in gears Babs__
[15:23] <HixWork> they never have perfect mesh, there is always a small amount of dwell as it were
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I've been wondering about just using brushless motors, as steppers.
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Large ones.
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> Clearly you'll need an appropriate microstepping drive.
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> But that's no longer as scary as it once was.
[15:25] <Babs__> So this backlash of what you speak is a) a delay in movement while the gears engage and b) ultimate limit on how incrementally you can position a servo?
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> It's not quite a limit on accuacy.
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[15:25] <SpeedEvil> It's a limit on positional certainty under varying loads.
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> If you know your load is coming from one direction - you can - with the right drive - be fairly accurate
[15:26] <WillTablet> Hi
[15:27] <Babs__> For Stabilotron II Mk. 1 (the ground based version) I reckon I'm just going to try and get it working with servos for the sake of simplicity
[15:28] <Babs__> By the time the thing flies it wouldn't look out of place in Minority Report
[15:28] <Babs__> (I'll even make it smaller than Tom Cruise)
[15:28] <Babs__> Which will be no mean feat
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[15:31] <Joel_re> has anyone got links to a NOTAM posted because of a HAB launch?
[15:31] <Joel_re> wondering what it looks like
[15:32] <Joel_re> have been going through the NOTAM for Indian airports
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[15:36] <HixWork> Joel_re: free to register http://ukga.com/gis/notam give you data
[15:37] <Joel_re> ok
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[15:38] <HixWork> Babs__: just to spice the honeymoon up a little further http://goo.gl/is1KQm
[15:42] <Joel_re> what diameter parachutes do you guys normally use?
[15:43] <Joel_re> Im looking at the 107cms one
[15:43] <Joel_re> http://www.pawanexport.com/parachutes.shtml
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[15:44] <Babs__> HixWork: Nice.
[15:44] <Babs__> This backlash though. It's just an absolute degree of accuracy that the servo can operate too though right?
[15:45] <Babs__> And if i position the camera carefully so all of the pivots are around the centre of gravity
[15:45] <Babs__> So the load doesn't vary that much
[15:46] <Babs__> And then the servos actually installed have a far greater operating torque than necessary
[15:46] <Babs__> To shift the camera
[15:46] <Babs__> Then all we are talking about is a fixed tolerance in degrees of where the computer thinks it is positioning the camera
[15:47] <Babs__> Vs where it is actually positioned
[15:47] <Babs__> Ie the inaccuracy doesn't vary over time?
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[15:52] <HixWork> Babs__: if you can control the load on the gears then it's not too bad, if you are moving the geartrain back and forth though then errors start to be introduced.
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[15:53] <Babs__> Do the errors grow over time though HixWork ?
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[15:53] <Babs__> To unmanageable levels?
[15:54] <Babs__> And thinking about it
[15:54] <Babs__> (Which is always dangerous)
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[15:55] <Babs__> If the servo command is just "move it to the right" or "move it to the left" based on the IMU position
[15:55] <Babs__> Rather than trying to go to a fixed degree
[15:56] <Babs__> Then (I think) as long as the servo command is updated frequently then it shouldn't really be an issue
[15:56] <HixWork> thats where it goes wrong, move to the right by a certain amount, but there is effectively play in the gearsets so you never really know how much movement actually was transmitted
[15:56] <HixWork> its probably too small to worry about for Stron{tm}
[15:56] <HixWork> adv
[15:56] <HixWork> abv rather
[15:56] <Babs__> Ahh, but if insufficient movement is transmitted, then the imu will still be pointing in the wrong direction
[15:57] <Babs__> And command the servo to move a little further around
[15:57] <Babs__> Until the IMU is aligned exactly with the direction we want it to be pointed in
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[15:58] <HixWork> it could just end up getting jittery. Speaking of which, I've got the get out of the office jitters :) laters
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[15:59] <Babs__> Cheers HixWork
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[16:15] <G7PMO_Kev> final testing of $$habtrk in progress before my first foil flight tomorrow....
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[16:27] <Laurenceb> any postscript gurus here?
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[16:32] <eroomde> why would there be?
[16:32] <eroomde> what a pathological thing
[16:33] <Laurenceb> dunno
[16:33] <Laurenceb> i have rendering issues
[16:33] <eroomde> never want to go there
[16:33] Action: Laurenceb is hand editing postscript
[16:34] <Laurenceb> renders fine
[16:34] <Laurenceb> but when i convert to pdf \mu turns to \alpha
[16:34] <Laurenceb> it confusing me massively
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[16:39] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[16:42] <WillTablet> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/610437050/arduino-project-board?ref=search
[16:42] <WillTablet> Looks interesting.
[16:43] <WillTablet> I don't get the point of it, but it looks interesting.
[16:46] <chrisstubbs> rubbish sales pitch
[16:47] <chrisstubbs> his website is iframes too
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[16:47] <chrisstubbs> nice
[16:48] <mattbrejza> not his worst idea though it see,s
[16:49] <chrisstubbs> Oh that PCB looks like it was made in expressPCB too
[16:49] <chrisstubbs> probably why his boards are so expensive
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[16:50] <cde> what are the good alternatives to expressPCB?
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> eagle
[16:51] <chrisstubbs> I started with expresspcb, and dont get me wrong it was easy. but eagle is far better
[16:51] <cde> is kicad good?
[16:53] <Steve_2E0VET> is upu about
[16:53] <Upu> possibly
[16:53] <Steve_2E0VET> lol
[16:53] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, is this your guide http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[16:54] <charolastra_> the hackRF guys used kicad so it can't be that bad
[16:54] <eroomde> i'm not sure that follows
[16:54] <eroomde> lots of good work has been done with poor tools
[16:54] <eroomde> but yes, it has its fans
[16:55] <arko> Altium!
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[16:56] <Upu> yes STeve + others
[16:58] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, just wondered how you get the yellow lines so thin, mine seem to be thick and chubby (like me) if the bar along the top is "k" the width of mine are approx 100k each
[16:58] <Upu> scree shot
[16:59] <eroomde> does it sound right?
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[17:03] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, http://i.imgur.com/NcCLwok.png?1[/IMG]
[17:03] <Steve_2E0VET> Upu, they look thinner on the screen print lol
[17:03] <Upu> what are you using to receive ?
[17:04] <Steve_2E0VET> FT857
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[17:04] <Upu> not sure
[17:04] <Upu> doesn't look excessively bad
[17:05] <Upu> shift is a little low
[17:05] <Steve_2E0VET> nothing is decoding
[17:05] <Upu> well you're cursors aren't on the signal
[17:05] <Upu> also shift is about 1/2 what it should be
[17:05] <Upu> which means something up with your resistors
[17:05] <Steve_2E0VET> the cursors are, but not on the screen print
[17:06] <Upu> I have to shoot back later on sorry
[17:06] <Steve_2E0VET> ok no probs
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[17:07] <G7PMO_Kev> Steve - i would increase your rx frequency a tad, to move the yello bars down to the middle of the waterfall too
[17:08] <G7PMO_Kev> I have issues getting fldigi to stick up above 2000hz
[17:08] <Steve_2E0VET> G7PMO_Kev, just going to try a varible resistor firsy
[17:08] <Steve_2E0VET> first*
[17:08] <G7PMO_Kev> ok, so yuo can get a bigger shift
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[17:14] <Steve_2E0VET> G7PMO_Kev, not sure what upu meant by the shift was half the size? (i'm pretty new to this)
[17:15] <G7PMO_Kev> Steve - the gap between yuor yellow lines is only about 250 Hz, it is better to be 400 to 500Hz
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[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:15] <Hiena> http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/patch.jpeg <=My brain! My eyes!
[17:16] <G7PMO_Kev> ie the frequency of a '1' should be about 500Hz different the the frequency of a '0'
[17:16] <Steve_2E0VET> G7PMO_Kev, ok, i thought i read somewhere 300
[17:16] <G7PMO_Kev> not sure, lets see what the netx tutorial says..
[17:16] <G7PMO_Kev> *ntx
[17:18] <G7PMO_Kev> the guide sugests 480hz...
[17:18] <G7PMO_Kev> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[17:19] <Steve_2E0VET> G7PMO_Kev, ok. just gonna try something
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[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'm just loading up some software for the AVRISP MKII
[17:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not too sure how to go about connecting the 6 pin ICSP cable to my chip as I've not got a 6 pin header to fit it to. I'll have to just use some pieces of normal wire
[17:24] <ibanezmatt13> So MISO, MOSI and SCK connect directly to the pins on the chip - VCC and GND connect normally - does the RESET connection have to go via a resistor to VCC or straight to the RESET pin on the chip?
[17:25] <G7PMO_Kev> ibanez - one way - http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pava-rev6.jpg
[17:26] <G7PMO_Kev> sorry got to run
[17:26] <ibanezmatt13> they look cool
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[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> http://people.ece.cornell.edu/land/courses/ece4760/AtmelStuff/avrispmkii_ug.pdf I'm looking at page 26 and I'm really confused :/
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> please explain
[17:29] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I need to hook it up to an ATTINY and I'm not sure how. After reading that, I'm doubtful about how I was going to connect it in the first place
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> I guess SCK, MOSI and MISO go straight to the relevant pins on the chip?
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> VCC and GND go straight to VCC and GND (do they not need any caps?)
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> No idea what to do with RESET, it states that the pullup on RESET should be no more than 4.7k and I have 10k
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> that should all be well OK
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> on my board there is even no resistor on the RESET line, it's directly connected
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok, and I only need the caps on the chip?
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> And nothing more for the programmer?
[17:33] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, you should have a pullup on reset
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I have on the PIN board now :)
[17:34] <chrisstubbs> 10k should be fine ibanezmatt13
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, so I need to somehow get an Arduino bootloader onto the ATTINY so I can upload my sketches
[17:34] <chrisstubbs> oh ibanezmatt13 i was going to say the other day but you quit.. you complained about the delivery on that olimex programmer
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> yeah?
[17:34] <chrisstubbs> olimex have an ebay store and they are £19.99 with free postage
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, that's good to know. I think the AVRISP MKII will be ok though. daveake has one :)
[17:35] <chrisstubbs> same kinda thing yeah
[17:36] <chrisstubbs> if you are really stuck you can set up a spare arduino board as an ISP programmer to burn a bootloader
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[17:37] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I could do, in fact I have no idea at the moment how to get a bootloader onto this ATTINY at all :/
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[17:38] <ibanezmatt13> I need to burn a bootloader somehow onto the ATTINY that makes it use its internal clock, still looking
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[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> LeoBodnar: Do you have any experience with the ATTINYs?
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> you just need to set the fuses, right?
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> basically yeah
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[17:41] <ibanezmatt13> I just need to set the fuses so that it uses the internal clock and has some sort of Arduino bootloader on it
[17:44] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, what attiny is it?
[17:44] <chrisstubbs> I have used the 13a before
[17:44] <ibanezmatt13> 85, I read it may not be supported by the programmer so I may just use the 328 as a test
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[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure it'll work though
[17:46] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not really sure what to do though. I'm not too sure where to find the bootloader and how to get it onto the chip (I'm pretty useless at getting these things to work)
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, you might as well just upload the sketch to the chip over ISP without the bootloader
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> it will save memory
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> but will it run it?
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> Yeah
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that was the whole point of a bootloader?
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> the bootloader just waits to see if the arduino ide is trying to upload a sketch over serial on boot
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[17:47] <ibanezmatt13> seems a bit pointless then, I'll just do that.
[17:48] <chrisstubbs> :)
[17:48] <ibanezmatt13> I'll have a mess around with the software for this thing and see if I can figure it, it's AVR studio
[17:48] <chrisstubbs> You can use the arduino ide too
[17:49] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> really?
[17:49] <G0TDJ_Steve> Evening guys
[17:49] <chrisstubbs> just have to create a new entry in boards.txt once you have figured out what the fuses are
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'll have an experiment now :)
[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[17:50] <chrisstubbs> fuses are a subject I cant really help on though unless its for a 8mhz 328p. Upu figured them out and whenever I tried i got a different set :P
[17:50] <chrisstubbs> its like black magic
[17:50] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, I'll just see what I can do
[17:51] <G0TDJ_Steve> Question: I notice a new balloon on Tracker GOG-HAB. It has an info item Fauna Status marked as Secure. Is that just a test or?....
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[18:00] <mfa298> my understanding of the various bootloaders is that they allow you to upload code over serial/usb rather than having to use a dedicated programmer. But if you've got a programmer there's no realy need for the bootloader.
[18:00] <mfa298> As for fuses they should all be in the datasheet but it takes some reading. I think AVR studio knows about them for most chips too so you can just click some tick boxes
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any USB device "usb"
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> That's using the Arduino ide
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[18:04] <chrisstubbs> err
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> I've set the correct programmer and I've set the board as Uno (I'm using the atmega328)
[18:04] <chrisstubbs> do you have the programmer yet?
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> No never used ATTinies ibanezmatt13
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok LeoBodnar
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> The programmer is all setup
[18:04] <chrisstubbs> Ok
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[18:05] <chrisstubbs> does it use a com port
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> I've selected com1 but that's the only one available
[18:05] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[18:05] <chrisstubbs> if you unplug the programmer does that dissapear?
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> ill try
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> same error
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> did com1 dissapera?
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> r
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> oh, one sec
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> no
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> ok I dont think they use com, just some kind of USB protocol
[18:06] <chrisstubbs> thats fine then
[18:07] <chrisstubbs> the programmer is hooked up to the chip
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> and it will definitely upload without any bootloader on the chip using arduino ide?
[18:07] <chrisstubbs> with a crystal and pullup resistor?
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> yep
[18:07] <chrisstubbs> do you have atmelstudio?
[18:07] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 You have to hold shift when you click the program button, in order to use a programmer rather than ftdi
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[18:07] <daveake> ^ in Arduino IDE
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> i'll try that now daveake
[18:08] <daveake> If you're not using that then ignore me :)
[18:08] <chrisstubbs> Oh yes that will help ;)
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> same error daveake
[18:08] <daveake> what error ?
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> err, it's above somewhere, I'll find it for you
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any USB device "usb"
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> I've installed the USB driver for the programmer
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> Though I've not restarted the PC if that's necessary
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> MISO to MISO, MOSI to MOSI, SCK to SCK, VCC to VCC, GND to GND, RESET to Reset. All the caps and the pullup on reset are already in on the chip
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> Hang on...
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> Does the programmer power the chip or not?
[18:11] <mfa298> you need to supply power to the chip
[18:11] <ibanezmatt13> bingo
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> no, it just senses if the chip is powered
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> as mfa298 says
[18:11] <mfa298> the vcc connection is only for the programmer to see what voltage your using
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> that's the issue then
[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> I'll hook up a PSU, one sec
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> take 2...
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> damn, same error :O
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> any chance to take a photo of the setup?
[18:16] <ibanezmatt13> I can Lunar_Lander But it'll be really bad
[18:17] <chrisstubbs> Wow neat artwork for the conference :)
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> where?
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:17] <daveake> The error message suggests it can't find the programmer - nothing to do with chip power (that would have been the next error probably!)
[18:18] <chrisstubbs> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, look at that!
[18:18] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that. Perhaps I should restart the PC
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> current attendees total 42 !!!
[18:18] <chrisstubbs> and where is your name Lunar_Lander?
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea still have to coordinate that
[18:19] <arko> oh wow a banner
[18:19] <arko> nice
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[18:19] <arko> hi lunar
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> brb, PC restart
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[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, no luck restarting
[18:25] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, open atmelstudio, go to tools, device programming
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[18:26] <chrisstubbs> cross your fingers and hope your programmer comes up on the "tool" dropdown
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> corssing :)
[18:26] <ibanezmatt13> crossing rather
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[18:27] <Steve_2E0VET> when decoding using dl-fldigi, I get quite a bit of junk before the packets start decoding, is that a problem
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> actually I don't have AVR Studio
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: no devices on there
[18:27] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, how much junk, 2 chars?
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> I got the driver from mightyohm and then got WinAVR with avrdude
[18:27] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, darn. Im out of ideas im afraid then dude
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> and also can upload from the arduinoIDE
[18:27] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: are you switching off the signal between strings?
[18:28] <fsphil> switching off the ntx2 I mean
[18:28] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, yes
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> all I can suggest is googling for a tutorial
[18:28] <fsphil> okie that's why -- it takes fldigi a few bytes to resyncronise
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> and the thing is that the Jumbo driver or so that comes with AVR Studio doesn't work with the IDE
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> it's ok. I'll keep looking. thanks anyway chrisstubbs :)
[18:28] <fsphil> Steve_2E0VET: I'd suggest transmitting a few null bytes, 0x00
[18:28] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, anywhere up to 8
[18:28] <fsphil> before your string
[18:28] <fsphil> fldigi locks into nulls quite well
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_Lander: I installed the jumbo driver L/
[18:28] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, ok
[18:29] <Steve_2E0VET> conference will be 43 if my missus will let me go
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> that seems to be correct for avrstudio
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> So there's another driver I need for the ide?
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea and there is the problem
[18:29] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, if i transmit some nulls do i need to put that in the flight doc
[18:29] <daveake> no
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> these jumbo drivers or however they are called resist uninstalling for some reason
[18:30] <daveake> and you mean "payload doc" :)
[18:30] <Steve_2E0VET> daveake, yes sorry
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> that's not good. Will the new driver not overwrite it Lunar_Lander ?
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> as far as I understood it now
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> -w
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[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, where can I find the correct driver for this thing?
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> http://mightyohm.com/blog/2010/09/avrisp-mkii-libusb-drivers-for-windows-7-vista-x64/
[18:31] <ibanezmatt13> will that be ok on win8?
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> which I strongly dislike btw :)
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> should be
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> and here http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=468532
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll have a go. Thank you!
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_Lander: I tried running the executable for that driver and it didn't load up :/ Oh dear
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> the mightyohm one?
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> yep
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[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> maybe because of the AVR driver
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> or does the exe fail itself?
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[18:37] <ibanezmatt13> Well, a console window opens and closes quickly and then I get a message saying the program might not have installed correctly
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> damn
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[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_Lander: https://join.me/440-471-084
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[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> can see your screen now
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> can't open pipe for writing, error 2
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> wtf
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> errcode2
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> could not open pipe for writing: errcode2
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[18:39] <ibanezmatt13_> Lunar_Lander: Always does that
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> it said "could not open pipe for writing: errcode2"
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13_> I didn't see that
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah it actually like hang in the stream so I could read that off the terminal window
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13_> oh cool
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13_> I've no idea what to do now though :/
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13_> Perhaps I should just use the Arduino as a programmer for now?
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> if you go to software, are Atmel's drivers a seperate point?
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> or can you only unistall the whole avrstudio
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll check, screens back on
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> what does screen sharing started mean?
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[18:42] <ibanezmatt13_> Means I've unpaused the screen sharing :)
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13_> There is a program for just the driver
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> I just wondered, not that my desktop suddenly is open to the world xD
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13_> Shall I uninstall it?
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> can you check if there is something at J?
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13_> yep
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> as the drivers are called "jungo"
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> ok thanks
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13_> nothing called jungo installed apparently
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah try to uninstall that Atmel USB
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13_> ok
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13_> done
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> what does the mightyohm thing do now?
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll check, screen on :)
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13_> x86 or 864?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13_> x64*
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> can you go to the start menu and right click on Computer?
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> (let's hope 8 has the same menu as Seven)
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> and then properties
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13_> yes, I can get that
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> there it should say if you have a 32 or 64 bit windows
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13_> should be 64
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13_> yes it is
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> then you need the x64 file
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13_> there are two executables, a x86 and x64
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13_> ah ok
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13_> screen on :)
[18:46] <ibanezmatt13_> damn
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I had hoped it would do the job
[18:47] <chrisstubbs> Looks like its time to reinstall the OS
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13_> hmm
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> as the terminal thing came on as you tried x86, the 32 bit version
[18:47] <ibanezmatt13_> oh god no :(
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13_> win 8 has a repair option?
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> I was kidding
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> are there any other sources of the driver that might actually work
[18:48] <chrisstubbs> or do you have another pc you can try it on?
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> on the other hand the mightyohm driver is from 2010
[18:48] <ibanezmatt13_> I have my laptop handy
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> so there might be no win 8 support
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13_> yea that could be the problem
[18:49] <ibanezmatt13_> I wonder if daveake is on win 8...
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=130342&start=0
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13_> that's bad
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13_> there are no PC's here with win 7 and previous
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[18:52] <ibanezmatt13_> I could always boot in an older version of windows or even compatibility mode, would that help?
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/libusb-win32/wiki
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> that one is a filter for such cases like Jungo vs. avrdude
[18:52] <mfa298> I've not tried it on win8 yet but when I first tried my avrispmkII I had various driver problems with it
[18:53] <mfa298> I only found out after a reinstall of windows and only installing avr studio
[18:53] <mfa298> that was all on win7
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13_> ah
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13_> well for now until I can sort an old OS out I could always use the arduino itself as the programmer.
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[18:54] <ibanezmatt13_> in fact, I don't think I could
[18:54] <ibanezmatt13_> or could I? damn
[18:55] <chrisstubbs> yes
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13_> even for a completely different chip
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13_> attiny
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13_> ?
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13_> with no bootloader?
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> yep
[18:56] <chrisstubbs> its just acting as an ISP programmer
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13_> How should I wire it up?
[18:56] <ibanezmatt13_> same way as programmer?
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13_> don't I have to use the arduino without the chip on board to use it as a programmer?
[18:57] <chrisstubbs> http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoToBreadboard
[18:58] <ibanezmatt13_> I've done that before using TX and RX but not with SCK, MISO and MOSI
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> Nope. you have to have the chip on
[18:58] <chrisstubbs> you load the arduinoisp sketch onto your proper arduino board, that "translates" the usb (serial) input from the PC into SPI
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13_> ah right ok
[18:59] <ibanezmatt13_> I'll do that now
[18:59] <chrisstubbs> ISP, SPI, whatever
[19:00] <ibanezmatt13_> I didn't want to use the arduino because it wasn't working properly (I think I broke it, long story)
[19:02] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, must be broken: avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00
[19:02] <ibanezmatt13_> :(
[19:02] <mfa298> I think with that error message it's trying to use a different programmer rather than look for the avrispmkII
[19:03] <mfa298> (based on the stk500 which I think is some other programmer)
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13_> mfa298: I've discarded the mkII for now
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13_> just using an arduino board
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13_> even that's not working
[19:04] <ibanezmatt13_> Maybe the chip is knackered
[19:05] <chrisstubbs> dinnertime brb
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> I've made a definite conclusion; my arduino board is... no more
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> which leaves me only with the programmer to program chips
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Where I have only win 8 machines which don't support it
[19:07] Action: ibanezmatt13_ requires a beer
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13_> there is one good thing though: the NORB software is complete and ready for flight. The box, well that may be done this weekend
[19:10] <ibanezmatt13_> be back soon, need hydration
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[19:12] Nick change: [1]batchoy -> batchoy
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[19:33] <LeoBodnar> WHat's "Fauna Status: SECURED" batchoy ?
[19:35] <batchoy> The project is for a world record parafauna drop
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> Who's been chosen to volunteer to be fauna?
[19:36] <batchoy> Teddy
[19:36] <batchoy> We normally drop teddies from 50m under kites
[19:36] M0NSA_A (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[19:37] <batchoy> We plan to drop this one from >28,000m
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> Dave's gonna beat you
[19:38] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: aroud ?
[19:38] Action: daveake wakes up
[19:38] <daveake> There's a record?
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[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Who woke Dave up? Run!
[19:39] <batchoy> Nothing recorded by BMISS
[19:39] <fsphil> haha
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Now there's some healthy competition.
[19:39] <batchoy> Yet
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> We need judges.
[19:40] <fsphil> I'll be the judge of that
[19:40] <fsphil> oh wait
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> And performance enhancing testing.
[19:40] <daveake> We have a volunteer
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> batchoy: http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1343
[19:40] <fsphil> ready teddy go
[19:41] <daveake> haha
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> Correction * http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1321
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> I can't bear this
[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[19:42] <fsphil> it's only going to get ursa
[19:43] <fsphil> mesa sounding like jar jar there
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> One of the two is going to get pawned
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> I'll get me coat
[19:45] <batchoy> daveake: http://www.bmiss.org.uk/
[19:46] <mfa298> there' snout wrong with these puns
[19:46] <daveake> The internet contains everything
[19:46] <fsphil> bear with me while I cry
[19:48] <daveake> 4. Minimum weight of each fauna, ready to drop, must be eight ounces (250 grams).
[19:48] <daveake> Well I've blown that one
[19:48] <fsphil> bearly
[19:48] <batchoy> lol
[19:49] <batchoy> I well within
[19:50] <fsphil> you could fly a backup bearcub
[19:50] <fsphil> does it need to be recovered?
[19:50] <batchoy> Definately
[19:51] <fsphil> how are you tracking yours?
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> taking bearings?
[19:51] <daveake> ho ho ho
[19:51] Action: daveake edits payload doc
[19:52] <fsphil> you should call it nate
[19:52] <fsphil> high bear nate
[19:52] <fsphil> ok I'm done
[19:52] <fsphil> good to get that out of my system
[19:52] <daveake> :)
[19:53] <fsphil> well, until octobear
[19:53] <fsphil> arg
[19:53] <fsphil> right, back to work
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[19:54] <daveake> These bears are up then they're down. They're bi-polar bears
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:55] <batchoy> Bear is limited to GSM/GPS tracker and DV Camera due to weight restriction
[19:56] <fsphil> you can get a lot lighter than GSM trackers
[19:56] <fsphil> a LOT
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[19:56] <batchoy> What I had to Hand
[19:56] <WillTablet> Hi
[19:56] <daveake> Some bearly weigh anything
[19:57] <fsphil> especially if you fly them bear, without any insulation
[19:58] <batchoy> exactly
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> a shaved bear?
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> XD I really enjoy how you can make puns with certain words over several minutes
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> as do I
[19:58] <daveake> minutes?
[19:58] <WillTablet> fsphil: *bare
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: Bear ;)
[19:59] <WillTablet> Wait
[19:59] <WillTablet> Too much caffeime
[19:59] <WillTablet> :-)
[19:59] <WillTablet> Bear
[19:59] <fsphil> you're overbearing WillTablet
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[19:59] <WillTablet> It looked wrong
[19:59] <WillTablet> But isn't
[20:00] <WillTablet> That was embarassing
[20:00] <fsphil> it'll bear all right in the morning
[20:00] <daveake> We'll be united
[20:00] WillTablet (~androirc@wikipedia/W-D) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:00] <mfa298> WillTablet: it's IRC most people don't care too much about spelling
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> I can't forbear from chuckling
[20:01] <mfa298> ... and he left
[20:01] <daveake> departed
[20:01] <fsphil> it was too much for him to bear
[20:01] <bertrik> this is getting unbearable
[20:01] WillTablet (~androirc@wikipedia/W-D) joined #highaltitude.
[20:01] <bertrik> ah, too late
[20:01] <WillTablet> This is why I like the idea of burnt offerings. You can blame things you do wrong on a sheep.
[20:02] <WillTablet> Diet Coke really makes my grammar fail.
[20:02] <daveake> reunited
[20:02] <cde> WillTablet, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0779982/?ref_=sr_1
[20:02] <WillTablet> Wait
[20:02] <WillTablet> I was right.
[20:03] <WillTablet> Dammit
[20:03] <WillTablet> Idk.
[20:03] <WillTablet> Man I really want an ubuntu edge
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> cde I have no idea what that film is
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> but it looks fantastic
[20:04] <cde> it is actually pretty good
[20:04] <mfa298> WillTablet: it's IRC most people don't care too much about spelling (plus you joined in the middle of Bear realted punnage)
[20:04] <cde> nice NZ scenery too
[20:05] <WillTablet> Oh
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6168063
[20:05] <WillTablet> Thought you ignored my joins.
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> btw my board that is getting made now http://s.gullipics.com/image/e/7/7/5yv6bf-kul0qr-17wb/V10BoardFinished.png
[20:06] <WillTablet> Sorry internet here won't load web pages.
[20:06] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, hackvana or uni self etch?
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> Why Lunar_Lander, Why are you able to operate Eagle :(
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> nice board btw :)
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> Did you say NO to mounting holes Lunar_Lander ? XD
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD well the uni electro workshop will make the board from that file
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I said we don't need them when I talked to the engineer
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> ibanezmatt13, well that was luck, it's my first try so to speak
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> good job
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> Good job for the 1st try!
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> it was quite a way to walk
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> 1000 points for not using autorouter
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> actually
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> the PSU part
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> make it 1000 pints
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> that was the first board I made with help from nigelvh
[20:10] <WillTablet> Ping Upu
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> and then I integrated it to the rest of the system
[20:11] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 find a good tutorial maybe?
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'm following one now :)
[20:12] <WillTablet> Nice
[20:12] <WillTablet> Have you got your gcse results back yet?
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> nope, soon :/
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[20:16] <WillTablet> Good luck
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> thank you :)
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[20:18] <WillTablet> Even if you failed all of them, you can say you tried.
[20:20] <WillTablet> What A-Levels are you doing?
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[20:33] <WillTablet> So...
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[21:11] <S_Mark> üLP2992AIM5-3.3/NOPB can anyone tell me what the AIM5 bit of this regulator means please
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[21:30] <craag> S_Mark: If you're still wondering, it means its a SOT-23 package
[21:31] <S_Mark> ah cool thanks, is that all it means?
[21:31] <craag> Packing Materials Page 4 at the end of the datasheet
[21:32] <craag> The AIM5 bit it looks like yeah.
[21:32] <S_Mark> ah brill thanks
[21:33] <craag> np, nice litte regulator :)
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, craag before I go to bed
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/e/7/7/5yv6bf-kul0qr-17wb/V10BoardFinished.png
[21:34] <jarod> For the dutchies:
[21:34] <jarod> LOL.. De co-piloot heeft zijn zonnebril al op om 23:30, Kaagbaan extra verlicht:
[21:34] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/tra6118-2013-08-06-co-piloot-zonnebril.mp3
[21:34] <craag> Looks great Lunar!
[21:35] <Steve_2E0VET> anyone any idea how long it takes a ublox to get a lock on sats
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> thanks craag :)
[21:35] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: 30s under an open sky, upto 5 minutes on a windowsill?
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> jarod, wearing sunglasses while flying at 2330 hours?
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:36] <Steve_2E0VET> ive been trying all night
[21:36] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Which antenna are you using?
[21:36] <Steve_2E0VET> tis it the santel
[21:37] <Steve_2E0VET> is*
[21:37] <craag> Ok, are you getting time from it?
[21:37] <Steve_2E0VET> not yet
[21:37] <craag> As if in you're not querying it?
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[21:38] <Steve_2E0VET> its out in the garden at the moment and not getting anything from it
[21:38] <S_Mark> looks good Lunar_Lander!
[21:39] Nick change: G0TDJ_AFK -> G0TDJ_Steve
[21:39] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hey guys :-)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> thanks )
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[21:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> GN Lunar_Lander
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[21:40] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Hmm, you've tried repowering it?
[21:40] <craag> Evening G0TDJ_Steve !
[21:40] <G0TDJ_Steve> Philip :D
[21:41] <G0TDJ_Steve> There's a balloon testing very close to me, Croydon, who's it it?
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Not me.
[21:42] <G0TDJ_Steve> It's labeled JFS
[21:42] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: The other thing to try is using the ucenter software on the PC. It can tell you how many satellites it's getting.
[21:43] <craag> You'll need a USB <=> Serial adaptor (eg FTDI)
[21:45] <G0TDJ_Steve> No one wants to claim JFS?
[21:48] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, i am revereting back to a known working copy of the sketch ... back to square1
[21:48] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Good plan
[21:49] <craag> Getting GPS lock is the most annoying part of testing I find.
[21:49] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, i wish i hadnt been to the pub
[21:49] <craag> haha
[21:50] <G0TDJ_Steve> If anyone claims JFS would someone kindly refer them to me. It's so close, we may be able to work together. steve@g0tdj.com
[21:53] <S_Mark> hi Steve_2E0VET it's Mark
[21:54] <S_Mark> The GPS will only get a fix when it is outside
[21:54] <Steve_2E0VET> S_Mark, hi mark
[21:55] <craag> I'd expect it to get a fix on a windowsill after a minute or two
[21:55] <craag> Mine only take that long with the chip antennas
[21:55] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, got fix now when reverted back to old script
[21:56] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Hmm, what did you change in the new one?
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[22:04] <G0TDJ_Steve> Does anyone know when Dave 'RPI will be launching on Sunday?
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[22:11] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, nothing other than no alcohol before i modded it lol
[22:13] <fsphil> probably around mis-day G0TDJ_Steve
[22:13] <fsphil> mid-day
[22:14] <G0TDJ_Steve> OK fsphil Thanks. I spoke to a 'Ham' friend who would like to track and decode tonight so I wanted to give him some info
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[22:15] <fsphil> excellent
[22:15] <fsphil> yea both payloads sending images, so the more receivers the better
[22:15] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, he was quite fired up. I've sent him an e-mail with all the tracker/software details
[22:16] <G0TDJ_Steve> fsphil: Do you happen to know who's balloon JFS is?
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[22:18] <SpeedEvil> http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/08/06/2023208/new-android-app-encourages-users-to-throw-device-as-high-as-possible
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[22:19] <Laurenceb_> funtimes
[22:19] <fsphil> just let him know it could be delayed if predictions go bad G0TDJ_Steve :)
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> apparently Helvetica isnt free
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> i just found out the hard way
[22:20] <G0TDJ_Steve> Yeah, OK fsphil
[22:21] <G0TDJ_Steve> Laurenceb_: All fonts have to be paid for somewhere... although there is a great site: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/ where all the fonts can be used for commercial purposes without needing payment.
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> interesting, thanks
[22:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Laurenceb_: There's also http://www.theleagueofmoveabletype.com/ Very nice quality fonts
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> i was faffing for ages with some hand coded postscript
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> wondering why it wasnt rendering....
[22:22] <G0TDJ_Steve> Ah,bit techie for me :-) I just love fonts
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> also pdf is a very cool format once you understand it
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> mix vector and raster graphics and encapsulate all your fonts :P
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[22:23] <G0TDJ_Steve> I make PDFs sometimes withIllustrator....
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> or not in my case
[22:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Oh and Laurenceb_ There's a font called Franchise Bold: http://www.derekweathersbee.com/franchise/ Also can be used commercially.
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> it was using system fonts due to licensing
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> and breaking
[22:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> im not really a font guru :P
[22:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> I am a little...
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> i've been trying to use Helvetica for diagrams and stuff
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> as it looks okish
[22:24] <G0TDJ_Steve> I have rather a large collection - Although I tend to stick to very few for designing
[22:25] <G0TDJ_Steve> I'm pretty sure you'll find a usable alternative on Squirrel
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah ive written a shell script to fix my pdfs now
[22:26] <G0TDJ_Steve> Well done
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[22:29] <Laurenceb_> i like to take the hardcore approach
[22:29] <G0TDJ_Steve> If yer gonna do something, do it properly
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[22:33] Action: SpeedEvil assumes that Laurenceb_ has written a PDF encoder in bash.
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> not yet :P
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> its a creative bodger
[22:38] <G0TDJ_Steve> Right, pretty much hit the pillow time. Looking forward to HABTRK tomorrow at 10:00, even though I'll probably not receive it. Catch you later guys - GN
[22:39] Nick change: G0TDJ_Steve -> G0TDJ_AFK
[22:39] <fsphil> there's one tomorrow?
[22:39] <G0TDJ_AFK> HABTRK 10:00am
[22:40] <G0TDJ_AFK> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/bzD-T2YPt1o
[22:40] <fsphil> ah foil
[22:40] <fsphil> no hope :)
[22:41] <G0TDJ_AFK> All the same to me :D Yeah, I'll be aout of range too but I'll still watch on Tracker
[22:41] <G0TDJ_AFK> Good Night
[22:41] <fsphil> nite
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 7 2013