highaltitude.log.20130805

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[07:29] <fsphil> morning
[07:30] <number10> morning
[07:30] <craag> morning
[07:32] <x-f> morning
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[08:43] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[08:44] <Lunar_LanderU> can someone tell me why he grounds the output in this schematic? http://www.elektronik-labor.de/Projekte/0411Alpha2.jpg
[08:44] <Darkside> er
[08:44] <Darkside> the output isnt grounded
[08:46] <Lunar_LanderU> OK let me check again
[08:46] <daveake> That's a socket - a phono socket or something
[08:46] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, thanks
[08:46] <Lunar_LanderU> that makes it clear
[08:47] <Lunar_LanderU> http://www.elektronik-labor.de/Projekte/Alpha.html
[08:47] <Lunar_LanderU> if you check the photo, probably it is the coax cable
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[08:48] <fsphil> my eyes!
[08:48] <Darkside> yeah
[08:48] <Darkside> that ratsnest is a bit scary
[08:48] <daveake> ^^ you took the words right out of my mouth
[08:48] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[08:48] <Lunar_LanderU> I am currently in EAGLE trying to make that a neat Board
[08:48] <daveake> Well, it's not breadboard, so I suppose that's a plus :/
[08:49] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> Good morning :)
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[09:03] <Lunar_LanderU> hi ibanezmatt13
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Lunar_LanderU
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.wvec.com/news/local/Package-discovered-neighborhood-turns-out-to-be-weather-balloon-217677901.html
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[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> Guys, does this look like a decent programmer for my ATMEGA328s and my ATINY85s?
[09:12] <ibanezmatt13> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/product/6962563/?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CUK-_-Google+PLA-_-Atmel%7CProcessor+%26+Microcontroller+Development+Kits-_-6962563&kpid=&istCompanyId=f7e7b05b-2daf-4c0e-8825-3633baf8113b&istItemId=xwiiaqpqm&istBid=tzit
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> My chips are 8-bit AVRs so I assume it will be ok
[09:14] <fsphil> everything after the ? in that url is not needed
[09:14] <daveake> That's the one I have. It works.
[09:14] <fsphil> that's the official atmel one isn't it?
[09:14] <fsphil> if that doesn't work nothing will
[09:14] <daveake> indeed :)
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, thanks :)
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[09:22] <Lunar_LanderU> AVRISPmkII rocks
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> good good :)
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> just purchased
[09:23] <Lunar_LanderU> does someone know how the AVRISP I did look like?
[09:31] <Lunar_LanderU> OK http://www.elektronik-labor.de/Projekte/0411Alpha11.jpg
[09:32] <Lunar_LanderU> how does he make sure that the signal does not exceed 5 V for the attiny
[09:32] <Lunar_LanderU> is it the 220k/47k network?
[09:32] <Joel_re> has anyone used the msp430 to hook up the NXT2 modules
[09:32] <Joel_re> and is RTTY recommended
[09:33] <fsphil> rtty is probably the simplest mode you can do with the ntx2
[09:33] <mfa298> rtty is the easiest thing to impliment for sending data
[09:34] <Joel_re> ok
[09:34] <mfa298> you can try other modes (ideally supported by dl-fldigi) but you might need a better hardware spec (DominoEx16 has been done but needs a stable transmitter or temperature compensation)
[09:35] <Joel_re> oh its my first launch, Ill just go with whats recommended
[09:37] <mfa298> what's recommended can depend on where you are and radio regulations.
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[09:38] <Lunar_LanderU> hi S_Mark
[09:39] Nick change: shenki_ -> shenki
[09:40] <Joel_re> ok
[09:40] <Joel_re> Im in India, plan to launch in december
[09:41] <Joel_re> working on the payload as of now
[09:41] <Lunar_LanderU> cool HAB in India
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[09:41] <x-f> guys, guys, GUYS!! there's a tower in Estonia on the map!
[09:42] Action: x-f does some dance and heads out for the lunch.
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[09:42] <daveake> Joel_re There's a weather balloon manufacturer in India - they'd probably give you one for free, for the publicity
[09:43] <Joel_re> daveake: yep, PAWAN exports
[09:43] <Joel_re> not sure if they'd hand out a free balloon though
[09:43] <daveake> Well, worth a try I would think
[09:43] <mfa298> you might want to check that you can use 434MHz as a license free band and also that you can use it airborne (it's not license free everywhere)
[09:44] <mfa298> definetly worth a try, the worst they can say is no at which point you're in the same position as now. But they could say yes, or offer a discount.
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[09:45] <Joel_re> yeah, I could ask
[09:45] <Joel_re> I was quiet suprised to see they had a separate section for HAB balloon
[09:46] <Joel_re> no one here except the MET dept uses those
[09:46] <Joel_re> I havent seen anyone do HAB here so far
[09:46] <daveake> No, that's why I mentioned it ... you'd likely be the first
[09:46] <Joel_re> then realized they had been exporting
[09:46] <Joel_re> http://www.wpc.dot.gov.in/faq.asp#3
[09:46] <Joel_re> 433 isnt listed there :<
[09:46] <fsphil> yea there have been a few launched here using pawans
[09:48] <Joel_re> although I dont think its regulated very well
[09:48] <Joel_re> since Im able to purchase 433Mhz modules in the market
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[09:48] <fsphil> you may be able to use it with an amateur radio license -- though that varies by country too
[09:49] <fsphil> yay standards
[09:49] <Joel_re> heh
[09:49] <Joel_re> Im hoping my payload doesnt end up in the sea
[09:50] <Joel_re> Im just about 4 kms away from the shore
[09:50] <fsphil> west or east coast?
[09:52] <Joel_re> https://maps.google.co.in/maps?saddr=Giriz+Rd&daddr=Vasai,+Maharashtra&hl=en&ll=19.374839,72.790046&spn=0.035303,0.065875&sll=19.383138,72.78717&sspn=0.070602,0.13175&geocode=FfeiJwEdLLBWBA%3BFaLoJwEdy8dXBCl7WMFrla7nOzFFUapLqVNPhg&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=14&t=m&z=15
[09:52] <Joel_re> uh oops look at point A
[09:52] <Joel_re> thats where Im at
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[09:53] <fsphil> ah west, not so bad
[09:53] <mfa298> you might want to try sticking some values into predict.habhub.org and see where that suggests a standard flight might go (something like 5/ms up and down, up to 35km)
[09:54] <Joel_re> I dont get it, why is west fine?
[09:54] <Joel_re> mfa298: okj
[09:54] <fsphil> not always, but the winds tend to blow east
[09:54] <fsphil> so it'll be pushing it inland
[09:54] <fsphil> but you'll still need to keep a close eye on the predictor
[09:58] <Joel_re> ok
[09:58] <Joel_re> its currently the monsoons so seems like everything in the next few months will end up in the sea
[09:58] <Joel_re> In december it should probably be different
[09:59] <Joel_re> or I'll head somewhere inland and launch
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[10:14] <HixWork> g'day peoples
[10:14] <fsphil> aye aye
[10:15] <HixWork> no socks or tunnels at the new job yet :/
[10:15] <HixWork> still first day, so early to rule it out
[10:15] <mfa298> Joel_re: there's also an hourly predictor which will show you the landing spot for every hour over the next 7 days - which can give you an idea of how things are changing.
[10:16] <Joel_re> mfa298: ok will take a look
[10:16] <Joel_re> thanks
[10:17] <charolastra> 7 days are a litte rediculous when not even the temperature forecasts are correct
[10:18] <fsphil> that's why it's called a prediction :)
[10:19] <HixWork> heh
[10:19] <fsphil> but yea anything after four days can't really be trusted
[10:19] <fsphil> and sometimes even that is iffy
[10:19] <fsphil> but it does give something to aim for
[10:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking into turning on and off appliances powered by the mains,but I do not want to go anywhere near the mains electricity. So I was looking into these remote control adapters they do for sockets where you can turn things on remotely. What's the best way to use these with a microcontroller? Infrared, radio?...
[10:19] <fsphil> they're mostly radio controlled devices
[10:20] <fsphil> the one I have won't work when I'm testing a payload
[10:20] <ibanezmatt13> how would I control the transmitter with an AVR or something?
[10:21] <fsphil> possibly, could do the button presses electronically
[10:21] <charolastra> a few years ago those predictions were quite fitting, but yesterdays forcast for friday was 20°C, now it's 33°C ;)
[10:21] <fsphil> or if you fancy it, reverse engineer the on-air protocol
[10:21] <ibanezmatt13> sounds complex. should I hack into the remote?
[10:22] <fsphil> I would yea
[10:22] <mfa298> HixWork: ssh server listening on port 443 can be quite successful in getting around restrictions.
[10:22] <fsphil> IP over DNS
[10:22] <ibanezmatt13> If I knew the frequency of the adapter I was using, I'd just find some other component that I could use to turn that frequency on and off. I'll have to have a look
[10:23] <fsphil> it's almost certain to be 434mhz or 869mhz
[10:23] <ibanezmatt13> Ha, I could use the NTX2 :)
[10:23] <charolastra> you'd need to reverse engineer the protocol, not just turn a " frequency on and off"
[10:23] <HixWork> cheers mfa298 I'll have a look-see
[10:24] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds difficult charolastra
[10:25] <charolastra> have you read about how people can burn down your house with those remote controlled wall plugs? ;)
[10:25] <ibanezmatt13> No, that sounds a but off-putting
[10:25] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it may not be that hard. Chances are they're just sending a few bytes using some standard protocol. Possibly with some very basic encryption that should be fairly easy to break.
[10:26] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, there's not a lot of documentation for these things. I'm not sure whether I'd be able to find enough info
[10:27] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: depending on how much mains youre willing to do (or ask someone else to do), there are always things like http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/321169295748
[10:27] <mattbrejza> but perhaps hacking those wireless things would be better depending on what you want to do
[10:27] <mfa298> you'de probably have to reverse engineer what they're doing by looking at what happens on air and/or what's inside the remote
[10:27] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I've already got some relays but I really don't want to be going near the mains at this stage. That's why I'm looking into RC
[10:27] <mattbrejza> put a transitor across the remote's push buttons or similae
[10:27] <mattbrejza> r
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13> That's the best option I think
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13> Electronically controlling the switches
[10:28] <fsphil> yea mains is bad
[10:28] <gonzo_> first off, have a look in the remote to see the chip used. It may be a standard RC chip
[10:28] <fsphil> well not bad, but dangerous
[10:28] <ibanezmatt13> exactly fsphil
[10:28] <fsphil> I don't like working with it either
[10:28] <daveake> Just make sure the remote is the type that has separate on and off buttons for each device, not a single button to toggle between on and off
[10:28] <fsphil> have to turn everything off before wiring lights and things
[10:29] <charolastra> mains is simple; just 2 wires
[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: Yeah, I'm looking at something like that now
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[10:29] <ibanezmatt13> I mean, I can't deny I'm interested in relays and things but it's just far too above my level at this moment
[10:32] <mfa298> you realise mains isn't so easy when you come accross stuff like https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4552093700129
[10:32] <Joel_re> http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/marine/weather?LEVEL=52&LANG=en&CEL=C&SI=mph&MENU=0&KUST=c9522
[10:32] <charolastra> play with your relays on a low voltage DC circuit and when you're comfortable then just switch the wires to the AC cicuit; a switch in a lamp cord is just a manual relay
[10:32] <Joel_re> how does one interpret those arrows
[10:32] <Joel_re> in Wind Direction
[10:33] <mattbrejza> if you were to drop something light thats what direction it would fall
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> charolastra: I've used realys quite a bit with 12DC
[10:34] <mattbrejza> btw wind at the ground is different to wind at higher altitudes
[10:34] <mfa298> Joel_re: it's likely to be the direction the wind is going in. However winds at altitude can be different to at ground level.
[10:34] <charolastra> sometimes the arrows are reversed and point in the direction the wind comes from
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[10:35] <Joel_re> ok
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[10:41] <HixWork> mfa298: in SSH-Tunnels I have D443 and D8080 set. This is what you were referring to isn't it? Outbound is on port 22
[10:41] <HixWork> [using putty] missed that bit
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[10:42] <fsphil> it'll be the ssh port you connect to, rather than the local forwarding ports
[10:42] <fsphil> are you getting ssh out ok?
[10:43] <HixWork> connection is timing out so guess not
[10:43] <HixWork> try 443 out?
[10:43] <fsphil> on the ssh server itself, you need to tell it to listen on port 443
[10:43] <fsphil> or whatever other port is open for you
[10:44] <fsphil> it's normally on port 22
[10:44] <HixWork> from memory it's listening on 8080, though it's a minmial centOs install so I cant remember
[10:44] <mfa298> HixWork: I was thinking setup your ssh server so it listens on port 443 (instead of 22)
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[10:44] <Joel_re> http://wiki.kartbuilding.net/index.php/Corkscrew_-_ssh_over_https
[10:44] <HixWork> ah, ok. I need to do that from home then as Can't RDC either
[10:45] <Joel_re> Ive had luck with corkscrew before
[10:45] <Joel_re> http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/sshproxy.html even
[10:45] <mfa298> it could be as simple as changing the nat settings on your router. (443 in from outside, 22 to the linux box)
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[10:47] <mfa298> unless the company is restricting what IP's you can get to on 443 or has a https proxy then that should work. (443 is normally https traffic so may not be inspected as much)
[10:49] <HixWork> if i enter the url:443 in browser I see a centOS error message so seems I can get to 443
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/02/armadillo_aerospace_hibernation/
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[10:49] <Laurenceb_> booooo
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[10:50] <mfa298> HixWork: in that case if you're changing stuff on the server you might need to disable https in apache first but that shouldn't be too hard
[10:51] <HixWork> I'm pretty sure it was set to recieve 443 when i was using it at the last job.
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[10:55] <HixWork> mfa298: when i enter https://myurl I get the [broken] hourly, so it seems I can get out on 443. Are you saying that putty is connecting to apache on 443 instead of ssh?
[10:56] <Rebounder> telnet to port 443 and then type some "GET blabla" or something
[10:56] <Rebounder> you'll will see if apahce,,
[10:57] <mfa298> if you're getting the hourly page then you'll get talking to apache (the webserver) not putty
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[10:58] <mfa298> Rebounder: https you probably won't get anything if you type "GET blabla" or it will be random chars - you need something that can do ssl for that test
[10:59] <mfa298> HixWork: so currently if you ssh using port 443 it wont work as you'll be talking to apache not ssh (but you can configure apache not to listen on 443 and you can make putty listen there instead) or you can use funky nat rules on the router (or even on the centos machine) to make it send what was port 443 to ssh.
[11:00] <HixWork> so incoming on CentOS is routing to Apache. I need to disable 443 in apache then it'll connect to ssh yes?
[11:00] <mfa298> you probably need to change ssh as well to listen on 443
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[11:01] <HixWork> ok, I'll google how to change em and give it a go when I can connect. Cheers
[11:01] <mfa298> assuming in your router you have a set of rules that say external:443 -> centos:443, external:22 -> centos:22 etc. you could probably just change those to say external:443 -> centos:22 (requires no centos changes)
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[11:03] <Lunar_LanderU> now
[11:03] <Lunar_LanderU> check this! http://s.gullipics.com/image/7/9/l/ji1rd83-kuifkm-uv82/PINGammaV1Schematic.png
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[11:08] <HixWork> like your thinking mfa298 noce on. Off for lunch bbl
[11:10] <mfa298> I'm a huge fan of the KISS methodology.
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[11:11] Action: mfa298 goes afk
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[11:24] <Lunar_LanderU> what do you think about the schematic?
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[11:40] <Lunar_LanderU> wb S_Mark
[11:41] <HixWork> works for me mfa298. There's a Japanese design methodology called Poka-Yoke which means mistake-proof. Originally it was baka-yoke. Idiot proof :)
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[11:43] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[11:44] <Lunar_LanderU> still tinkering with http://www.elektronik-labor.de/Projekte/0411Alpha11.jpg
[11:45] <Lunar_LanderU> what my idea would be is that the AtTiny would be programmed like the MightyOhm geiger counter
[11:45] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[11:46] <Lunar_LanderU> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5950919/
[11:48] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: you could wire both the GM and PD detectors to the same ATTiny
[11:49] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[11:49] <Lunar_LanderU> the pulse line from the GM?
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[11:50] <mattbrejza> well the GM has a logic level signal that gives a pulse?
[11:50] <mattbrejza> as does the PD?
[11:50] <mattbrejza> (are you making the GM board?)
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> well I have this GMC http://mightyohm.com/blog/products/geiger-counter/
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> and the PULSE line of it is a logic level signal that can be detected by the CPU
[11:51] <mattbrejza> that has a tiny on it?
[11:52] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[11:52] <Lunar_LanderU> he uses it to get serial output as well
[11:52] <mattbrejza> you could always solder the PD pulse signal to a spare pin on that board
[11:52] <mattbrejza> and modify the program if its open source
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[11:53] <Lunar_LanderU> "This program is free software"
[11:53] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[11:53] <Lunar_LanderU> so we could leave out the attiny on the PD board and just provide an output
[11:53] <mattbrejza> or reprogram it so that the 'pulse out' is in fact pulse in
[11:53] <mattbrejza> so you dont even need to modify the board
[11:53] <mattbrejza> yep
[11:54] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[11:54] <Lunar_LanderU> so the GM detects its pulses
[11:55] <mattbrejza> although im not sure all pins on the avr are the same as far as interrupts go, so ull have to check the pulse header can be used
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> and the PD sends its pulses
[11:55] <Lunar_LanderU> and then, the GM CPU sends out the serial data
[11:55] <mattbrejza> yea, saving having two software serial issues
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[11:56] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon :)
[11:56] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[11:57] <ibanezmatt13> I've got an ATMEGA328 and I'm looking at using it without a crystal. I'm not sure how to get a bootloader onto it to use its internal clock. Anybody got any ideas?
[11:57] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: just checking the pins
[11:58] <Lunar_LanderU> I suppose they are labelled with INT ?
[11:59] <Lunar_LanderU> then it won't work sadly, PULSE is on Pin 11, and the pins labelled INT are 6 and 7
[11:59] <mattbrejza> yea the odd thing about the AVR is that is has INTx and PCINTx
[11:59] <mattbrejza> dunno the difference
[12:00] <fsphil> yea I've seen that
[12:00] <fsphil> never looked into it
[12:01] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: usually the clock source is defined by the fuses which you can set with the ISP, not sure what the arduino side does though.
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> had I better wait until my programmer arrives before I look into this?
[12:02] <mfa298> if there's no boot loader currently you'll need the programmer to put the bootloader on anyway (although if you've got the programmer there might not be much need for the bootloader)
[12:02] Nick change: Steffanx -> SteffanB
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> There's already an Uno bootloader on the chip, I just need to use the internal clock so I don't need to mess about with this crystal
[12:03] <mfa298> if you've found a source that's pre-flashed the bootloader on then it's likely to depend on what fuses they've set or not set.
[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil, mattbrejza http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=39290
[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> this is something on INT and PCINT
[12:03] <mattbrejza> yea PCINT has one interrupt for an entire port
[12:03] <mattbrejza> so you need to mask it if possible
[12:04] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[12:04] Nick change: SteffanB -> SteffanBx
[12:04] <fsphil> aah better to use INT than PCINT if possible
[12:04] <fsphil> or one PCINT per port
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[12:05] <mattbrejza> yea you can mask PCINT via PCMSK0/1/2
[12:06] <mattbrejza> but you only get level triggering rather than edge triggering
[12:06] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[12:06] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah lots to think about it seems
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[12:08] <mattbrejza> you also cant set interrupt on only high or only low
[12:09] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[12:09] <Lunar_LanderU> which would be OK I think
[12:09] <Lunar_LanderU> I doubt the signal would spend much time on the flanks
[12:11] <mattbrejza> the issue being is that one pulse will give two interrupts
[12:11] <mattbrejza> but they might be too close together sometimes for the ISR to run twice
[12:12] Nick change: SteffanBx -> Steffanx
[12:12] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[12:13] <fsphil> I believe interrupts are disabled while running the ISR
[12:13] <fsphil> you don't want interrupts interrupting your interrupt
[12:14] <mattbrejza> yea but the flag is set, so interrupts that fire during an interrupt then run once the orginal ISR is done?
[12:14] <fsphil> this I'm not sure
[12:14] <mattbrejza> it would be pretty simple to test though
[12:14] <mattbrejza> im fairly sure it does queue up however
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[12:18] <mattbrejza> internet suggests they do queue
[12:18] <UpuWork> ping craag
[12:21] <fsphil> it would just queue one more anyway yea?
[12:21] <fsphil> it would miss any extra interrupts after that
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[12:23] <mattbrejza> there is one flag per interrupt soruce
[12:24] <mattbrejza> so if a pin went high-low-high quickely, while that might generate two PCINTs if the ISR is short, if it gets delayed for some reason it might occasionally only fire the PCINT ISR once
[12:25] <mattbrejza> so its not really suitable here, you need to know the ISR was called due to a high-low transition
[12:25] <mattbrejza> you probably get check the pin state either if its already chnaged back by the time the ISR is called
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[12:30] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: that seems to be not-trivial
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[12:33] <craag> pong UpuWork
[12:34] <craag> Exam is 27.50 to the RSGB
[12:34] <craag> as here: http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-and-education/for-exams/fees/
[12:34] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: basically, dont use PCINT for this, use INT
[12:35] <mattbrejza> so if you want to use that board for both GM and PD, youll have to solder a wire to the INT1 pin (currently being used by the switch - but tahts fine)
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[12:37] <UpuWork> thanks craag
[12:38] <mattbrejza> btw UpuWork how are you for talks for the conference?
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[12:40] <UpuWork> want to do one ?
[12:41] <mattbrejza> potentially
[12:41] <mattbrejza> about error correcting codes and how it would massively improve stuff
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[12:42] <UpuWork> ok cool
[12:43] <UpuWork> how long do you think you need ?
[12:43] <mattbrejza> give me a slot and ill fill it
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[12:43] <mattbrejza> 15-20 maybe
[12:43] <mattbrejza> but if you have 10 free than ill do a brief one
[12:45] <UpuWork> ok I'll put you down should be able to fit that in thanks
[12:45] <mattbrejza> np
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[12:48] <Darkside> hrm
[12:48] <Darkside> i did some testing of various modes in fldigi through my research channel simulator
[12:48] <Darkside> PSKR looks quite interesting
[12:48] <mattbrejza> for HF?
[12:49] <Darkside> yeah
[12:49] <mattbrejza> is pskr the one that uses 1khz of BW?
[12:49] <Darkside> no
[12:50] <craag> It looks like PSK but with 1/2 FEC
[12:50] <Darkside> PSKR is PSK + FEC
[12:50] <Darkside> yep
[12:50] <Darkside> olivia won out in terms of reliability though
[12:50] <mattbrejza> i was thinking of MT63
[12:50] <Darkside> lt me dump my stats somewhere
[12:51] <Darkside> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aijjb1CUQvqPdHluSGFsSDhWZVI1Ti1tSXdCNC11M0E&usp=sharing
[12:51] <Darkside> so what i did was transmit a fixed sequence over and over again
[12:51] <Darkside> for 12 minutes
[12:52] <Darkside> so, of course, the modes with a higher bitrate will have more packts transmitted
[12:52] <Darkside> after i feed the baseband signal through the simulator, i demodulate the audio (fldigi, again)
[12:52] <Darkside> and then basically hunt for how many complete packets its found
[12:52] <Darkside> this is a very very basic way of testing the modems performance, i can't do much more as i dont have access to each modems internal metrics
[12:53] <mattbrejza> need to add a BW column so then bits/s/hz
[12:53] <Darkside> yeah perhaps
[12:53] <Randomskk> should probably transmit until you have a certain number of errors
[12:53] <Randomskk> rather than transmit a certain number of packets and count errors
[12:53] <mattbrejza> is reliability based on bit error, symbol error, or sentence error?
[12:53] <Darkside> sentence error
[12:53] <Darkside> i dont hav access to bit or symbol error
[12:54] <Darkside> all that is deep down in fldigi
[12:54] <Darkside> its not feasible for me to extract that data for every single modem in fldigi
[12:54] <Darkside> it'd be excellent data if i had it
[12:54] <mattbrejza> could do character error
[12:54] <mattbrejza> but guess sentence is easier
[12:54] <Darkside> yeah
[12:54] <Darkside> exactly
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[12:54] <WillTablet> Hi
[12:54] <Darkside> Randomskk: so this is run over a fixed channel 'scenario'
[12:55] <Darkside> its a 12 minute fading pattern based off an ionospheric model and raytracing simulations
[12:55] <Randomskk> oh right
[12:55] <Randomskk> okay
[12:55] <mattbrejza> so now SER/SNR plots?
[12:55] <Darkside> the ionosphere model is perturbed with a travelling wave
[12:55] <Darkside> mattbrejza: yeah, the fldigi quality data is effectively that
[12:55] <Darkside> and of course i can get SNR from the baseband audio
[12:55] <Darkside> anyhooo..
[12:55] <Darkside> olivia wins in terms of reliability
[12:56] <Darkside> but PSKR500 wins in terms of throughput, evne though only 40% of the packets got through
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[12:56] <Darkside> as when the SNR was high enough for data to get through, a OT of data gets through
[12:56] <Darkside> lot*
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[12:56] <mattbrejza> can you program a target SNR into the channel sim?
[12:56] <mattbrejza> guessing lots of other parameters
[12:57] <Darkside> no, thats now really how it works
[12:57] <mattbrejza> ok
[12:58] <Darkside> for this simulation, its simulationg the propagation environment at 7.1MHZ between two stations 80km apart, when a travelling ionospheric disturbance with a 300km wavelength, 12 minute period, and 5MHz fof2 variation passes through the ara
[12:58] <Darkside> area*
[12:58] <Darkside> setting somethign like a 'snr' is a bit difficult :P
[12:58] <Darkside> i can adjust the receive noise floor though
[12:58] <Darkside> at the moment its S7 noise in a 3KHZ bandwidth, which, funnily enough, is the same noise level i have at home
[12:58] <mattbrejza> yea..
[12:59] <Darkside> and, would you know, i have a HF beacon set up... 80km away
[12:59] <Darkside> operating on 7.1MHz
[12:59] <Darkside> >_>
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[12:59] <mattbrejza> the S7 in 3kHz coming from thermal noise?
[13:00] <Darkside> nah, local manmade noise
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[13:00] <Darkside> i'm simulating it as white noise, which is a pretty good approximation in a small bandwidth
[13:01] <Darkside> i also have an atmospheric lightning burst noise generator in the system, but since this was a daytime sim, atmospheric noise isn't dominant.
[13:02] <mattbrejza> as in, everyone has their AC and whateer else on during the day?
[13:02] <Darkside> as in, atmospheric noise is mainly caused by propagated noise from storms in the tropics
[13:02] <Darkside> and that propagation only exists at night time
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[13:02] <Darkside> so only local storms would be a problem during the day
[13:03] <mattbrejza> oh right
[13:03] <Darkside> this simulator is freaking complex
[13:03] <Darkside> theres so many different models going into it
[13:03] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[13:03] <mattbrejza> i was looking at a ITU document on HF noise, it suggested a noise temperature of 3000K, probably a bit optimistic for a real life value
[13:03] <mattbrejza> (this was near 30MHz though)
[13:04] <Darkside> i'm using the ITU models to provide the 'base' noise levels
[13:04] <Darkside> the ITU model is very coarse though
[13:04] <Darkside> hence for this particular simulation i overrode it
[13:04] <mattbrejza> i was only interested in LOS though, making it somewhat easier
[13:07] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: sorry was called to the other end of the lab
[13:08] <mattbrejza> you got my last point about the switch pin? thats all i had to say
[13:08] <Lunar_LanderU> yea a wire to INT1
[13:08] <Lunar_LanderU> on the GM right?
[13:08] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:08] <Lunar_LanderU> OK
[13:08] <Lunar_LanderU> and INT0 and INT1 being used on the PD
[13:09] <mattbrejza> INT0 is used for GM pulses and INT1 for PD pulses
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[13:18] <ibanezmatt13> I've just put some text on a board in Eagle and now I can't see it. Any idea how I can make it show up?
[13:19] <ibanezmatt13> Apart from that, I think I may have created my first correct PCB in Eagle :)
[13:19] <daveake1> That false impression won't last long :)
[13:20] <mattbrejza> the text could have been too small, too big, wrong layer, same colour as a copper fill etc...
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[13:21] <g8kbz> Is UPU about?
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I was looking at changing the font colour but I couldn't find it, I'll have another look
[13:21] <mattbrejza> the colour is defined by what layer its on
[13:21] <mattbrejza> remeber to put onto a silk screen layer
[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I've not done that
[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'll find one now
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[13:22] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: all the layers are enabled
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[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah fixed it I think
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> In the properties for the text I inserted, I changed the layer it was on from top to some sort of cream thing and now it shows :/
[13:24] <ibanezmatt13> Should be fine
[13:25] <mattbrejza> use tplace or tsilk
[13:25] <mattbrejza> when you create gerbers you wont export cream layers
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> So I should choose one of those for the layer the text is on?
[13:26] <ibanezmatt13> See mattbrejza : https://www.dropbox.com/s/retr37c8si3j21p/trafficlights.png
[13:26] <mattbrejza> yep
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> ah, Tsilk is much better, thank you
[13:27] <mattbrejza> the cream layer defines where solder paste is placed
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Ah I see
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Does that board look ok?
[13:27] <mattbrejza> (use bsilk for stuff on the bottom)
[13:27] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> It's based on an ATTINY and it controls some LEDs as a traffic lights system for my younger brother
[13:28] <mattbrejza> board seems fine. if thats an AVR i guess ideally it should have decoupling caps, but as far as the board goes its fine
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> Ah yes, forgot about those. I'll shove some in. I guess 1uF on the VCC will be enough?
[13:28] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[13:28] <mattbrejza> also how do you intend to program it?
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> I was gonna program it with a programmer here on a breadboard, test it, then solder it in
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> I thought having an ICSP header would have been a bit "in the way" for my brother
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[13:30] <mattbrejza> ok
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> do ceramic capacitors go up to 1uF?
[13:30] <mattbrejza> the other thing you usually put on boards is label the swtich positions, label the LEDs etc
[13:30] <mattbrejza> yep
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[13:31] <mattbrejza> you can get 22u 0805 ceramic
[13:31] <UpuWork> hey g8kbz I'm here
[13:31] <Darkside> mattbrejza: you can get 22uF 0603 ceramics too
[13:31] <Darkside> at 4V rating though
[13:32] <mattbrejza> oh right yea
[13:32] <Darkside> i'm using one with a 0.7v buck regulator
[13:32] <mattbrejza> 100u 1210 exist too
[13:33] <mattbrejza> 10V
[13:33] <Darkside> oowe
[13:33] <Darkside> nice
[13:33] <mattbrejza> also this thing http://uk.farnell.com/avx/st203c227maj10/capacitor-ceramic-220uf-25v-x7r/dp/1829121 :/
[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> Still looking for 0805 ceramic caps in Eagle :P
[13:33] <mattbrejza> 220uF ceramic
[13:33] <Darkside> lol
[13:34] <mattbrejza> its in rcl/c_eu/r0805 ibanezmatt13
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> ah fantastic, thanks
[13:35] <g8kbz> Hi, Upu. A question about your web shop stock, if I may?
[13:35] <UpuWork> Sure lets PM
[13:36] <g8kbz> If I can work out how to do that. I'm on via webchat, and this is my 1st time here.
[13:37] <UpuWork> oh ok I just did a PM so should be on the screen somewherre
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[13:39] Nick change: DrLuke__ -> DrLuke
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[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> mattbrejza: I've added the cap to the ATTINY, does it look ok? https://www.dropbox.com/s/retr37c8si3j21p/trafficlights.png
[13:40] <mattbrejza> yea tahts fine
[13:40] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks again mattbrejza
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> cool, I run the ERC and get no errors. Running the DRC I have a load of "stop mask" errors, what are they?
[13:41] <mattbrejza> it means the silk layer overlaps solder pads
[13:41] <mattbrejza> are there many or just a few?
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> err, quite a few
[13:42] <mattbrejza> you might have to turn off layer tDocu to reduce them
[13:42] <zyp> you usually don't have to care about stop mask errors, most fabs remove all silk over solder mask apertures
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> I'm sure Hackvana will ignore them if I told them to
[13:42] <ibanezmatt13> I could just dismiss it I suppose
[13:42] <Ugi> Most of the stock library components give those stopmask errors and I've never had an issue with them
[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> I'll just leave it then. I can always add a note when I send it off just in case
[13:43] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: you'll want to rotate the button cell holder
[13:43] <Darkside> as the diode will be in the way
[13:43] <HixWork> ditto, ignore it. Though Mitch does get annoyed with them. Only when prodded about them though. They'll sail through mannufacture ibanezmatt13
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[13:43] <ibanezmatt13> yes I will, well spotted Darkside
[13:44] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: want to see something cool?
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> Sure Darkside
[13:44] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/LittleFury-Main-Spec.PDF
[13:44] <Darkside> this is my latest design
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: Yeah, should be ok
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> loading it up Darkside
[13:44] <ibanezmatt13> very slow
[13:44] <mattbrejza> takes a while to go round the world...
[13:44] <Darkside> thats the level of documentation you need to get stuff manufactured and loaded in quantity
[13:45] <HixWork> do we need to rotate 180 Darkside
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> ah that looks cool Darkside
[13:45] <Darkside> HixWork: around the world around the world, around the world around
[13:46] <HixWork> nearly at 35% :)
[13:46] <Darkside> lol
[13:46] <Darkside> its serving off a VPS in sydney
[13:47] <mattbrejza> 300ms ping to sydney
[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[13:47] <mattbrejza> 16mbps throughpout
[13:48] <Darkside> mattbrejza: the VPS is shit though
[13:48] <UpuWork> hi ibanezmatt13
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I "may" have finished a PCB! https://www.dropbox.com/s/retr37c8si3j21p/trafficlights.png
[13:48] <ibanezmatt13> may...
[13:49] <UpuWork> is that a battery at the bottom left ?
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> Battery holder yeah
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> 3v
[13:49] <UpuWork> very good now lets make something useful :)
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> I'd love to make something useful, but just out of curiosity, how can I create Gerber files from that :)
[13:50] <UpuWork> not telling you
[13:50] <ibanezmatt13> damn
[13:50] <UpuWork> :)
[13:50] <UpuWork> just cam processor
[13:51] <UpuWork> file -> cam processor
[13:51] <UpuWork> file -> open -. job
[13:51] <UpuWork> file -> open -> job
[13:51] <UpuWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqud4ze6itn7c0i/hackvana-2.cam
[13:51] <UpuWork> point it at that
[13:51] <UpuWork> done
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> Is that it?
[13:51] <zyp> yep
[13:51] <UpuWork> but I'll tell mitch to ignore it if you try send it in :)
[13:51] <ibanezmatt13> :P
[13:51] <zyp> then open the gerbers in a gerber viewer like gerbv to inspect them
[13:52] <mattbrejza> also need to use a program like gerbv to check the gerbers were created properly
[13:52] <UpuWork> http://mayhewlabs.com/3dpcb
[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks for the information anyhow :)
[13:52] <UpuWork> sorry http://mayhewlabs.com/webGerber/
[13:54] <HixWork> Darkside: you're drawing border date is from the fewcherrrrr
[13:54] <HixWork> *your
[13:54] <Darkside> oh what
[13:55] <Darkside> its the 5th, right?
[13:55] <mattbrejza> well australia is in the future
[13:55] <ibanezmatt13> After pointing to the cam file, do I click process job?
[13:55] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: Yep
[13:55] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[13:56] <HixWork> Darkside: states drawn 8th aug 2013
[13:56] <Ugi> It will spit out a bunch of Gerber files into the folder that your board file was in
[13:56] <ibanezmatt13> Warning, layer "drills" is active but layer "holes" is not active, is this ok?
[13:57] <HixWork> drills is physical holes, holes are plated through holes iirc
[13:57] <Ugi> Not met that one, but it doesn't sound good.
[13:57] <ibanezmatt13> oooh dear
[13:57] <HixWork> I'm pretty sure its the correct thing
[13:57] <Ugi> before you run the cam job, you might want to go back to the board and make sure to display all of the layers
[13:57] <Darkside> HixWork: whoops
[13:57] <Darkside> i see
[13:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'll do that now Ugi
[13:58] <Lunar_LanderU> I got one more EAGLE question
[13:58] <Lunar_LanderU> what about Groundplanes?
[13:58] <Darkside> HixWork: typo
[13:58] <Ugi> Lunar_LanderU: You make a ground plan from a polygon by using the "exclude" or similar setting to keep it away from everything else
[13:59] <HixWork> nps Darkside thought you may want to know, just in case.
[13:59] <ibanezmatt13> Ugi: Still same error
[14:00] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13: I'm pretty sure its ok with the error.
[14:00] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: ignore it
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, will do
[14:00] <HixWork> you can check the gerbers.
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> ok its done but I'm not sure what it just did. Where will the gerbers be?
[14:01] <mattbrejza> its because mitch has the drill holes (unplated) on the dimension layer rather than the drill file
[14:01] <mattbrejza> (or somethig like that)
[14:01] <mattbrejza> in the same folder as the eagle files are there now lots of files named like .gto?
[14:01] <HixWork> gerbers are the new files in the locn of your brd
[14:01] <mattbrejza> but dufferent extensions
[14:01] <HixWork> and double the amount you need annoyingly
[14:02] <ibanezmatt13> there are a lot of new files :/
[14:02] <HixWork> ^^
[14:02] <ibanezmatt13> which is the correct extention to send off if I were doing that? Or for viewing?
[14:02] <HixWork> drag 'em all into gerbv
[14:03] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[14:03] <HixWork> extensions are covered in the hackvana faq
[14:03] <ibanezmatt13> shove all including the .sch and .brd into the viewer?
[14:03] <HixWork> read it before you send Mitch anything
[14:03] <HixWork> exclude brd and sch
[14:03] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[14:03] <HixWork> they're native eagle
[14:03] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: there is a separate gerber file for essentially every layer - you will almost always need at least 7
[14:03] <zyp> ibanezmatt13, not the .sch and .brd, only the gerbers and NC
[14:03] <Randomskk> gerbv is also nice for exporting screenshots of the board
[14:04] <Randomskk> I find the renders look better than eagle
[14:04] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks guys
[14:04] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/headamp-brd.png
[14:04] <mattbrejza> but for example, .txt and .dri are both drill files but you only need one
[14:04] <Randomskk> almost ready to be sent off to mitch ;)
[14:04] <Randomskk> with immersion gold and black soldermask, mmmm
[14:04] <HixWork> ENIG - flash git :)
[14:04] <Randomskk> ikr
[14:04] <Randomskk> only $20 more
[14:04] <Randomskk> and it'l look sexy on all that exposed metal for the shield
[14:04] <Randomskk> not that I'll likely actually have a shield
[14:04] <Randomskk> but it's nice to have options
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> ok I just looked at it in the viewer and it looks awsome. Everything looks ok but I've no idea what the heck I'm doing and the text hasn't showed up on the board
[14:05] <Randomskk> ibanezmatt13: the text is likely in one of the silkscreen layers (assuming your CAM file exported the right silk layers to gerbers)
[14:05] <Randomskk> and might need to be dragged around in the layer order in gerbv
[14:05] <Randomskk> try setting render type to high quality
[14:05] <Randomskk> which will let you see through everything
[14:06] <HixWork> or just check each layer on its own to make double sure
[14:06] <mattbrejza> the text might be under another layer also
[14:06] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/eaiEM.png <- here's gerbv output for a board I made some months ago
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll have a look but this is a little confusing. I'm gonna upload my files to dropbox
[14:06] <ibanezmatt13> looks good zyp, I like it
[14:07] <zyp> the trick is to show the solder mask layer as inverted, since the layer contains not the mask but the holes
[14:07] <zyp> and then just pick some nice colors and stack the layers in the proper order
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> I've got all files apart from .sch and .brd in a file in dropbox. Anyone fancy a look? :/
[14:08] <zyp> I would, but I'm still at work
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> it's ok. I might as well plod on with it for a bit anyway
[14:09] <Ugi> ibanezmatt13: there are layers in eagle and layers of Gerber files. However, cometimes more than one Eagle layer maps to one Gerber layer and vice versa
[14:09] <HixWork> lemmes see if i can install gerbv
[14:09] <Ugi> If you look at the cam processor then under each tab there will be some layers ticked. those are the layers that make up that Gerber file
[14:09] <ibanezmatt13> I think I ran the hackvana job instead of a gerber one
[14:10] <Ugi> you can add or subtract eagle layers from the Gerber file so that you get what you want where you what it.
[14:10] <ibanezmatt13> that sounds like a good thing to do Ugi
[14:10] <mattbrejza> the hackvana job is a gerber one
[14:10] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
[14:11] <mattbrejza> it is possible that the layer you put the text on doesnt default to be exported
[14:11] <Ugi> the correct layers should be ticked in the hackvana cam job
[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> possibly mattbrejza
[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna run the job again, brb
[14:11] <Ugi> but if you put text on layer "my layer" or something then you can add that to the silkscreen layer
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[14:12] <HixWork> hey Babs__
[14:12] <mattbrejza> ibanezmatt13: in the cam processor, on the top silkscreen tab, make sure 'tsilk' is highlighted in the list on the right
[14:13] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[14:13] <ibanezmatt13> I will do mattbrejza
[14:13] <HixWork> link me up ibanezmatt13
[14:13] <ibanezmatt13> ok, email?
[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks Ugi
[14:14] <Babs__> Hey HixWork - did you get your imu working yet? I programmed mine plus the I other arduino while over here but don't have the arduinos over here to test it out yet
[14:14] <HixWork> dropbox
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I once saw that a groundplane can be made by having the bottom of the PCB covered with a plane connecting all GND connections
[14:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok, one sec
[14:14] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ghqnaw6kn1ev78q/HLU53rEzFj
[14:15] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[14:15] <Ugi> Lunar_LanderU: no sweat - if you make a polygon and right click, you can add it to the "GND" net. It's then connected to ground
[14:15] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[14:15] <HixWork> not yet Babs__ had job change and a few other things on the go. back burnered it
[14:15] <Ugi> at the same time you can set how far it is excluded from everything else 10ish mil is typical I think
[14:15] <Randomskk> I'd use at least 20 mil for ground plane exclusion
[14:15] <Randomskk> especially with cheap fab services
[14:16] <Ugi> click ratsnest to refresh the polygon (no I don't know why)
[14:16] <Randomskk> that's a really annoying and annoyingly common manufacturing error
[14:16] <Randomskk> from the likes of seeed especially
[14:16] <Randomskk> in one place your ground plane just touches something
[14:16] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[14:16] <Randomskk> no harm in having 20mil exclusion
[14:16] <Randomskk> if you have the entire bottom as a ground plane, please try hard to avoid breaking it up
[14:16] <Randomskk> so no long traces on the bottom side
[14:16] <Randomskk> ideally no traces on the bottom side
[14:17] <Randomskk> if you split the ground plane in half with a really long trace, so all the ground currents have to go right to the edge of the board, that's bad.
[14:17] <Randomskk> mostly that's bad for high frequency stuff and if you design right and bla bla it's okay but yea
[14:17] <Randomskk> avoid
[14:17] <Babs__> Quite excited to try it out - have those two wireless shields to try too when I have it working on a wired basis
[14:18] <Lunar_LanderU> yea so far no traces on the bottom
[14:19] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13: if you're getting Mitch to make these boards, keep the dimension below 50mm for the cheapes deal. You have loads of space to compact that board
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> right, I think I can do that
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[14:20] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13: I'd say rotate the IC 90 c/w move LEDs in and get the resistors closer. Smaller board less cost
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll do that
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[14:23] <Randomskk> yea, the 5cm x 5cm boards are soo much cheaper.
[14:24] <Randomskk> this 16cm by 16cm board is costing a lot more :(
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> how can I find the dimensions of the board in Eagle?
[14:24] <mattbrejza> the location of your cursor is top left
[14:25] <HixWork> is ENIG only $20 per order extra? seems weird, if you have a lot of big boards or 10 50x50 its the same
[14:25] <Randomskk> HixWork: dunno, that's the quote I got
[14:25] <Randomskk> $86 for rohs solder, $107 for enig
[14:25] <Randomskk> annoying that pb hasl is cheaper
[14:25] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13: if you do properties on the outlines you get the top right x and Y co-ord
[14:25] <Randomskk> but meh, I'm pretty much only do rohs
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, thanks
[14:26] <Randomskk> I've soldered with lead solder, it was frankly not that exciting. decent lead free solder is fine.
[14:26] <HixWork> fair enough Randomskk suppose if you sell 'em you cant have pb
[14:26] <Randomskk> maybe not the cheap crap maplins sell but silver bearing rohs is good
[14:26] <Randomskk> HixWork: yea
[14:26] <Randomskk> considering selling
[14:26] <Randomskk> not sure
[14:26] <Randomskk> it has a mains psu
[14:26] <Randomskk> which makes me somewhat wary
[14:26] <HixWork> hmm, legal scariness
[14:26] <Randomskk> yea
[14:26] <Randomskk> well maybe
[14:26] <mattbrejza> i dont think selling to ben counts though
[14:27] <Randomskk> "selling"
[14:27] <Randomskk> I don't think giving someone a PCB ever counts :P
[14:27] <HixWork> just get some CE mark stencils made up for seeeeed
[14:27] <Randomskk> I think it's low power enough that I could self certify CE
[14:27] <Randomskk> not sure
[14:27] <Randomskk> tbh it's not worth trying to sell really
[14:27] <mattbrejza> just say its a dev kit and so then you can ingore CE
[14:27] <Randomskk> the BoM is too expensive to turn a useful profit without charging as much as a well known brand headphone amp
[14:27] <Randomskk> didn't design for cheap
[14:27] <HixWork> hmm
[14:27] <Randomskk> it's like £100 in parts
[14:27] <HixWork> ouch
[14:27] <Randomskk> yea
[14:27] <mattbrejza> whats expensive? the case, transformer, pcb?
[14:28] <Randomskk> yes all of those are
[14:28] <Randomskk> case is £25, transformer £10, pcb about 15 I guess
[14:28] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind all thats left is an opamp
[14:28] <Randomskk> well
[14:28] <Randomskk> the mains inlet is surprisingly expensive
[14:28] <HixWork> whoa, have you looked at Hammond for the case
[14:28] <mattbrejza> connectors = £10?
[14:28] <Randomskk> HixWork: it is a hammond case
[14:28] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: yea, probably around that
[14:28] <Randomskk> the audio pot is £10
[14:28] <HixWork> sounds very expensive
[14:29] <Randomskk> HixWork: it's extruded aluminium and 16cm by 16cm
[14:29] <HixWork> oh the heatsink ones
[14:29] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: oh also there's some money in that budget for the front and back panels which are laser cut and engraved black acrylic
[14:29] <mattbrejza> ah :)
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> HixWork: The board is 1.55x1.25 but I'm not sure what the units are. Is that inches?
[14:29] <Randomskk> to be fair I was considering buying a headphone amp, and the one I'd get is £200
[14:29] <Randomskk> so I still win out
[14:29] <Randomskk> and this should be pretty decent quality too
[14:29] <HixWork> more than likely ibanezmatt13 US units
[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> ok, size sorted then
[14:30] <Randomskk> mattbrejza: also the resistors are a few pounds and some of the capacitors are too
[14:30] <mattbrejza> 0.1%?
[14:30] <Randomskk> film caps
[14:30] <Randomskk> metal foil resistors
[14:30] <Randomskk> and yea I think they're .1%, can't remember
[14:30] <Randomskk> don't have the time to be hand matching in any event
[14:31] <mattbrejza> do this: http://hackaday.com/2009/12/20/better-resistors-from-a-pencil/
[14:31] <mattbrejza> seems legit
[14:32] <Randomskk> haha
[14:32] <Randomskk> that's so silly
[14:32] <Randomskk> audiophiles and resistors
[14:32] <Randomskk> dangerous mix
[14:32] <Randomskk> they still use carbon composition resistors!
[14:32] <Randomskk> what are they thinking
[14:32] <mattbrejza> but theyre non-inductive!
[14:32] <Randomskk> this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/64538-resistor-sound-quality-4.html#post753437
[14:33] <fsphil> I'm not going to click on that, it's probably too painful to read
[14:33] <Randomskk> here are some choice quotes then
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[14:33] <mattbrejza> troloolol
[14:33] <Randomskk> Holco: Slow, dull, very woody bass.
[14:33] <Randomskk> Riken (new carbon): Correct rhythm, strong but clear. Sweet highs.
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[14:33] <Randomskk> Old carbon types: Slow, muddy, dull, lifeless, missing treble, loosy bass, missing space & 3D. Hissy with high distortion factor.
[14:33] <fsphil> make it stoooop
[14:33] <Randomskk> this is for the same amp, source, speakers, etc, just swapping out resistors
[14:33] <Randomskk> but the first reply?
[14:34] <Randomskk> I notice you didn't mention the date codes of the resistors to which you listened. Some of them mellow nicely with age, and if you store them properly, they make great investments!
[14:34] <Randomskk> I find the Rikens to age well at 55 degrees F for at least 3 years when stored in French oak crates (NOT hillside oaks, but valley oaks- something about the extra moisture adds fragrance to the finish).
[14:34] <fsphil> that has to be parody
[14:34] <Randomskk> yes I believe the response is trolling
[14:34] <Randomskk> Finally, the Beyschlags- they remind me of a girl I dated in college- they start sweet and attentive only to come to a cloying and bitter finish. Best not to even start with them....
[14:34] <Randomskk> hah
[14:34] <fsphil> then again...
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> I got another question on my stepup circuit
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> I found that one of the resistors I got is wire-wound
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> is that bad?
[14:35] <fsphil> why would it be?
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[14:35] <zyp> fsphil, because it might act as an inductor
[14:35] <zyp> i.e. a coil
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> that I meant
[14:36] <zyp> Lunar_LanderU, that really depends on what you use it for
[14:36] <fsphil> depends on what's going through it
[14:36] <HixWork> electrons?
[14:36] <fsphil> not all electrons are equal. some sound warm, others are a bit hollow
[14:37] <Randomskk> so yea. I picked some metal film resistors
[14:37] <Randomskk> they have good temperature coefficients, don't age, come in good tolerances
[14:37] <Randomskk> those are things that matter >_>
[14:37] <HixWork> you've been using valley electrons, they're crap. I get mine from no less than 4000m
[14:37] <Randomskk> but it can be hard to separate the complete shit from the things that might change the audio
[14:37] <mattbrejza> +noise
[14:37] <Lunar_LanderU> it
[14:37] <Lunar_LanderU> it's Rsc http://s.gullipics.com/image/5/r/d/ji1rd83-kujq4p-wewm/StepupSchematic.png
[14:37] <Randomskk> oh, yea, metal film has lower noise generally
[14:37] <Randomskk> like polystyrene vs polyester capacitors
[14:38] <mattbrejza> but remember, clipping introduces more DC which damages speakers (ive seen written)
[14:38] <Randomskk> wat
[14:38] <fsphil> haha
[14:39] <Randomskk> people believe all sorts of totally crazy stuff
[14:40] <Laurenceb> http://vision.ucsd.edu/~blaxton/pagePapers/laxton_wang_savage_ccs2008.pdf
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[14:40] <mattbrejza> http://forums.audioreview.com/speakers/clipping-amp-speakers-7548.html#post57130
[14:40] <Randomskk> "The increased loudness sucks the power supply dry effectively putting DC across the speakers."
[14:41] <gonzo_> quick, sell him some directional phono cables
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[14:45] <Lunar_LanderU> XD
[14:45] <Randomskk> don't even start on directional cable
[14:45] <Randomskk> do they even stop a moment to think about that?
[14:45] <Joel_re> do you guys have any antennas for the 433Mhz
[14:46] <Randomskk> if their cable is directional it's a diode and thus rectifying and thus clipping their music >_>
[14:46] <Joel_re> Ill be using it with my SDR dongle
[14:46] <Randomskk> I mean the real problem is that the music is AC...
[14:46] <Joel_re> err using the SDR dongle to recieve RTTY on 433
[14:46] <Joel_re> I think I might get the amp for it as well
[14:47] <gonzo_> have had that debate in a HIFI shop
[14:47] <bertrik> Joel_re: at hackerspace revspace we use a diamond X-50 antenna, it's a dualband for 2m and 70cm
[14:47] <bertrik> we also use the habamp and it improves sensitivity/range greatly
[14:48] <Joel_re> Id need to build an antenna
[14:48] <Joel_re> are there any build logs for it out there?
[14:48] <Randomskk> when I bought my speaker cables
[14:48] <Randomskk> I thought everything went so well
[14:48] <Randomskk> the guy was nice and helpful and said nothing stupid
[14:48] <Randomskk> then as I was about to walk out of the door
[14:49] <daveake1> There was an audio show where Quad had a stand and people were asking what this magic new speaker cable was as it sounded so good.
[14:49] <fsphil> should make a spoof video, adding a diode to the connector. then saying nothing but nice things about the clippy audio
[14:49] <daveake1> It was a flymo extension lead
[14:49] <Randomskk> he goes "oh! I forgot! you need to make sure the cables go with the text running towards the speaker"
[14:49] <Randomskk> I was like "noooooooooo"
[14:49] <gonzo_> the hifi man's replies were along the lines of, you have to have faith in things that we know are true but can't prove etc. Thought I'd walked into a prayer meeting
[14:50] <daveake1> Everyime I see these stories I wish I'd set up an audiophile store selling wooden volume knobs and the like
[14:51] <Randomskk> yes!
[14:51] <Randomskk> I keep having this debate with a guy in another channel
[14:51] <fsphil> I know a guy with a router.. hmmmmm
[14:51] <Randomskk> we could both quit our jobs and sell audiohphile shit
[14:51] <Randomskk> you just make up words
[14:51] <daveake1> yup
[14:51] <Randomskk> there's huuuuge profit margins
[14:51] <daveake1> yup
[14:51] <daveake1> and you won't ever get any returns
[14:51] <Randomskk> making high quality audio is the easiest thing in the world - it's only 20kHz for goodness sake!
[14:51] <Randomskk> you can get perfect friggin amps
[14:51] <daveake1> as they won't ever admit to being wrong about a purchase
[14:52] <fsphil> haha
[14:52] <Randomskk> the only question is how you choose to distort it so it sounds warm/has a good soundstage/whatever shit
[14:52] <gonzo_> used to do sound systems a long timne ago. remember one event would never book us, but used soem local mobile disco guy. Claiming that his PA was louder. When checking I found ours was 4x the power. But he drove his so far into satudarion it was just a mess. But people thought that sounded loud
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[14:52] <Randomskk> and that means putting in shitty low tolerance resistors or something
[14:52] <fsphil> avr would probably be fast enough to add distortion
[14:52] <fsphil> a few fir filters
[14:52] <Randomskk> oh god you can't have digital anything
[14:52] <Randomskk> not acceptable
[14:52] <mattbrejza> make a valve amp that has a tiny TI class D thing hidden below, with the valves doing nothing. see if anyone notices
[14:52] <fsphil> hide it under a valve
[14:52] <Randomskk> high end CD players have buttons to turn off the LCD screen to 'turn off the digital'
[14:52] <Randomskk> someone is missing something there
[14:52] <daveake1> lol
[14:52] <fsphil> ;p;
[14:53] <fsphil> er
[14:53] <fsphil> what daveake1 said
[14:53] <daveake1> Now that takes a special kind of brain
[14:53] Action: fsphil missed the keyboard
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[14:53] <fsphil> you could create an analogue optical disc
[14:53] <mattbrejza> although i might make a valve headphone amp as they look kinda cool
[14:53] Nick change: daveake1 -> store4audiophile
[14:53] <mattbrejza> can go next to the nixie clock
[14:54] <gonzo_> we used to tet the 'philes coem and ask advice about speaker cables. We usually offered them some of the stuff we used on the big rigs. Then they were upset to see it was just 2core mains
[14:54] <bertrik> Joel_re: I've had some vague plans to build a colinear from coax cable for 434 MHz, but then we got a "real" antenna :)
[14:54] <mattbrejza> but its not screened! think of the noise itll pick up
[14:54] <gonzo_> the analogue optical disc was used for the speaking clock for decades
[14:54] <Randomskk> real speaker cable isn't even screened anyway. it's all so stupid
[14:55] <fsphil> aah cool gonzo_
[14:55] <fsphil> didn't think such a thing existed
[14:55] <Joel_re> lol ok
[14:55] <Joel_re> Im going to find it hard to source one of those
[14:55] <bertrik> maybe it's screened only from one side, so then it may make some remote sense to connect the screen on the amplifier side
[14:55] <fsphil> I'd read that the old video discs where analogue, storing an analogue tv signal
[14:55] <fsphil> laserdiscs even
[14:55] <Randomskk> yea laserdiscs were
[14:55] <Randomskk> so cool
[14:55] <gonzo_> yep, I believe they were
[14:56] <Randomskk> http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2013/video-disc/
[14:56] <Randomskk> just look at them
[14:56] <store4audiophile> Yeah you can't use ordinary potentiometers any more. Enter the transformer ... http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0203/audioconsulting.htm
[14:56] <gonzo_> interestiong aside, you can record just about anything on an old VHS, as long as the frame sync is correct freq
[14:57] <mattbrejza> 60 mins on each side
[14:57] <mattbrejza> what was vhs?
[14:58] <Randomskk> 2 hours?
[14:58] <Randomskk> before my time really but I think 120 mins wasn't uncommon maybe :P
[14:58] <fsphil> there was a VHS data backup system for the amiga
[14:58] <store4audiophile> 180 mostly IIRC
[14:58] <gonzo_> $5k ! nice
[14:58] <store4audiophile> Think they did 240s
[14:58] Action: G7PMO_Kev has a box of laserdiscs and a player downstairs :)
[14:59] <store4audiophile> And then you could run at half speed for added crapiness
[14:59] <fsphil> nice G7PMO_Kev
[14:59] <gonzo_> The 405line TV boys use VHS, as you can record 405line on it
[14:59] <G7PMO_Kev> hasnt been turned on for a good few years - maybe 15 :)
[14:59] <store4audiophile> Wooden audio knob - http://boingboing.net/2005/11/07/astronomically-overp.html
[15:00] <gonzo_> then you can demo your 405line kit without an interstandards converter
[15:00] <mattbrejza> hmm laser disk seems worth it just for the rainbows
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[15:01] <gonzo_> I have a few disks somewhere. But they were a series of stills rather than a video
[15:01] <bertrik> ah, so it's "bad vibes" from non-wooden volume knobs
[15:01] <gonzo_> was part of a system that gave you a tour around a building or wherever
[15:01] <Randomskk> gonzo_: !
[15:01] <Randomskk> was that the early MIT thing?
[15:01] <store4audiophile> I started work on a project that never happened, updating an old MOD system that had PCB pictures as stills on videodisc
[15:02] <HixWork> Babs__: so you're going to have ireless comms from payload to conrtoller?
[15:02] <gonzo_> this was called surogate tour or something
[15:02] <HixWork> typospecially for you ;)
[15:02] <store4audiophile> It was controlled from a DOS PC that knew which frame bumber it wanted to show
[15:02] <store4audiophile> number
[15:02] Nick change: store4audiophile -> daveake
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[15:03] <gonzo_> that was the chap. it had some mapping and linked to views on the laserdisk. Sort of early google streetview type thing
[15:03] <Laurenceb> http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/03/12/giant_pliers.jpg
[15:03] <Babs__> HixWork: Probably
[15:03] <HixWork> cool Babs__
[15:03] <Babs__> Probably not now I've found slip rings
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[15:04] <Darkside> Laurenceb: this is an old experiment and you'v eprobably seen it before
[15:04] <Darkside> but it's interesting non the less
[15:04] <Darkside> nonetheless*
[15:04] <Babs__> But while developing it its easier to have a self contained unit I can wave around my head driving a set of servos on a table
[15:05] <Babs__> Wires get tangled when rotating stuff etc
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[15:06] <Babs__> HixWork: Bought a couple of these
[15:06] <Babs__> http://www.opensourcerf.com/rfd21815-wireless-inventors-shield-for-arduino.html
[15:07] <HixWork> Babs__: so theoretically you could have nipple-tassle controlled IMU control
[15:07] <Babs__> It uses "High quality components" so there is lidderaallly *no way* I can fail
[15:08] <HixWork> excellent Babs__ *no way* is solid. good planning
[15:08] <Babs__> HixWork: Already have. It's what I use to type messages on here.
[15:08] <HixWork> heh
[15:08] <HixWork> please leave them at home for the conf
[15:09] <Babs__> I'm permanently wearing them
[15:09] <Babs__> But only I know
[15:09] <Babs__> In all seriousness, if that wireless shield works it will be quite handy
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[15:10] <Babs__> No special code, just pump out through the serial port and you are done
[15:10] <Babs__> Allegedly
[15:10] <HixWork> Babs__: nice
[15:11] <Babs__> Plus it has no wireless interference
[15:11] <Babs__> It says so on the write up so must be true
[15:12] <Babs__> *babs readies order for wire dog cage he will have to sit in to make it work*
[15:12] <HixWork> Babs__: when you have this sorted can you move onto meteorologicalstabilotron_UK wireless weather control
[15:12] <Babs__> Did you patent the stabilotron term?
[15:13] <Babs__> I don't want you to Samsung me and prevent it being launched once it is finally built
[15:13] <HixWork> I got sidetracked with patent leather thigh high boot images on google, you're safe. for now
[15:15] <Babs__> Is upu on?
[15:15] <Upu> might be depends if its complex
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[15:15] <Babs__> It's simple
[15:15] <Babs__> Ha ha
[15:16] <Babs__> Upu - yesterday you said dont use software serial (which I take as read as i know the ublox software serial route you've found to be problematic)
[15:16] <Upu> yeah its timing can be out sometimes so you miss data
[15:16] <Babs__> But if you need two serial ports what is the solution?
[15:17] <Upu> well
[15:17] <Babs__> Use an arduino mega where they have 4 built in?
[15:17] <Upu> whats on the second port ?
[15:17] <Babs__> An imu
[15:17] <Upu> if it runs @ 4800
[15:17] <daveake> Get an i2c IMU
[15:17] <Upu> should be ok but yes get i2c
[15:17] <Babs__> Although I could use i2c to drive the imu
[15:17] <Upu> mega is massive
[15:17] <HixWork> Babs__: ATMega 644 has 2 UARTS
[15:18] <HixWork> 44pin iirc
[15:18] <daveake> I got a £15 IMU on ebay. 9 axis plus press/temp
[15:18] <daveake> All i2c easy peesy
[15:18] <Babs__> Ahhh, 3 of us got there at the same point
[15:18] <Babs__> daveake: Do you then put everything through i2c
[15:18] <daveake> I did this on the Pi but the code would be very very similar on Arduino
[15:19] <daveake> Yes and ublox too
[15:19] <Babs__> Or GPS to hardware and then everything else to i2c
[15:19] <daveake> On the Pi you need* to use the serial port for the NTX2
[15:19] <Babs__> So i2c is viewed to be stable too?
[15:19] <daveake> * may not be strictly true but it's the easiest
[15:19] <daveake> Fine for me
[15:19] <Babs__> Ok thanks
[15:20] <daveake> My last Pi flight used i2c for the IMU throughout
[15:20] <fsphil> i2c does not require the precise timing that rtty does
[15:20] <Babs__> What did you use the imu for?
[15:20] <daveake> and I've used i2c ublox with the Pi for the last4 flights I think
[15:20] <fsphil> or serial
[15:20] <daveake> Just logging
[15:20] <Babs__> Logging orientation?
[15:20] <daveake> and then proving to someone that he was wrong about when the "glider" detached :)
[15:20] <Babs__> Ahh ok
[15:21] <daveake> Yeah I just logged everything; no processing
[15:21] <fsphil> despite being obvious from the video...
[15:21] <daveake> indeed
[15:21] <Babs__> Also, I got a Flickr alert daveake then saw some more polystyrene sculpture
[15:21] <fsphil> I noticed no mention of that in the followup
[15:21] <Babs__> Is that for the bear?
[15:22] <daveake> Yes :)
[15:22] <Babs__> Cool. I thought it was either that or you were making some Easter Island heads
[15:22] <daveake> lol
[15:23] <daveake> Julie said I'd made a sodastream
[15:23] <Babs__> Do you know anywhere that mills blue polystyrene?
[15:23] <Babs__> Arf
[15:23] <daveake> pass
[15:23] <Babs__> I can see some CNC routing of it being needed in the distant future
[15:24] <daveake> So yeah, the camera in the top part looks straight down at Felix Beargarner's head
[15:24] <daveake> So it'll record the "jump" on video
[15:24] <Babs__> That's what I figured.
[15:24] <Babs__> That will be awesome
[15:24] <daveake> There may be some more awesomeness, care of fsphil, related to that view :)
[15:25] <fsphil> assuming I don't have a mental breakdown trying to make it work
[15:25] <Babs__> Unless he feels all claustrophobic in his fur coat and has a hissy fit and steps out of the project for 6 months
[15:25] <daveake> :)
[15:25] <Babs__> What are you planning fsphil?
[15:25] <fsphil> give him beargoggles
[15:25] <daveake> As I said ... the mission motto is "More altitude less attitude" :)
[15:26] <Babs__> Yes, you should Bear that in mind
[15:26] <daveake> The camera view is pretty much the same as on Felix's flight
[15:26] <fsphil> need to make sure it works before I can say
[15:26] <Babs__> Who is taking the role of the 85 year old telling him how to open the door?
[15:27] <fsphil> lol
[15:27] <fsphil> pappabear
[15:27] <fsphil> like a bad spy callsign
[15:27] <Babs__> Worked it out
[15:27] <fsphil> pappabear to rubberduck, come in rubberduck
[15:28] <Babs__> Fsphil is doing the visor demisting
[15:28] <HixWork> yogi kittinger
[15:28] <Babs__> Yagi kittenger surely
[15:28] <fsphil> this is unbearable
[15:28] <Babs__> *bows*
[15:28] <daveake> Someone's gonna throw his teddys out of the pram
[15:29] <Babs__> It's the Polar opposite of the red bill project in many ways
[15:29] <daveake> Comparison table - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1321
[15:29] <fsphil> how can we claw our way out of this?
[15:31] <Babs__> When is launch?
[15:31] <daveake> Sunday, midday ish
[15:31] <daveake> assuming predictions hold up
[15:32] <Babs__> It will be early in California at that time
[15:32] <Babs__> I'll be up but may be Grizzly being up at that time
[15:32] <HixWork> you'll have to get up ursus
[15:32] <fsphil> can we please all paws this
[15:32] <Babs__> Ursus?
[15:33] <HixWork> Yogi's Latin name
[15:33] <HixWork> Maritimus - polar
[15:33] <Babs__> Are you transmitting live daveake ?
[15:33] <fsphil> Ursa Altitudis
[15:34] <daveake> Yup
[15:34] <daveake> Images from the bear and the capsule
[15:34] <fsphil> the third bear in the sky
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[15:34] <Babs__> Nice. Presumably a 2 minute delay in case of red out
[15:35] <HixWork> he'll be ploughing through the upper atmosphere
[15:35] <daveake> Through the Tropopaws
[15:36] <fsphil> extra points if you land it in a zoo
[15:36] <LazyLeopard> Heh
[15:36] <Babs__> Tropopaws wins
[15:36] <daveake> inside a pen?
[15:36] <fsphil> yea
[15:36] <fsphil> first hab payload ever lost due to lion
[15:37] <HixWork> payload label http://www.dreamstime.com/be-aware-of-bear-sign-thumb6068228.jpg
[15:38] <Babs__> Is he parachuting or just being dropped?
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[15:38] <Babs__> He looks pretty tiny
[15:38] <daveake> parachuting
[15:38] <daveake> 137g all in
[15:38] <Babs__> Cool.
[15:38] <daveake> Total for him plus capsule plus main chute is just under 400g
[15:38] <HixWork> is this going on a 1600g daveake ?
[15:39] <Babs__> If the parachute fails he'll be encountering much more than 137g when he hits terra firma
[15:39] <daveake> He's *just* big enough for the Pi to fit inside. 2 AAAs down each leg. Camera in one eye. Ublox near the other ear. Aerial out of his bum and ground plane wires up along his arms
[15:40] <daveake> I've wrapped up the rectally-inserted NTX2 in layers of insulation to prevent it drifting too much
[15:40] <fsphil> cybearman
[15:40] <LazyLeopard> Unless he's packing a lot of lead I'd have thought his terminal velocity wouldn't be too excessive?
[15:40] <daveake> hah new one :)
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[15:40] <daveake> Nah I doubt it would be that high
[15:40] <daveake> I'm justing a little plastic rocket chute
[15:40] <Babs__> Unless he goes in the head down position
[15:41] <mattbrejza> could use a streamer?
[15:41] <HixWork> RF now means rectal force
[15:41] <daveake> Ultra ... ouch
[15:42] <daveake> Dunno mattbrejza
[15:42] <daveake> But these chutes weigh almost nothing
[15:42] <HixWork> "[16:40] <daveake> I've wrapped up the rectally-inserted NTX2"
[15:42] <Babs__> Specifically on the 1640 post daveake
[15:43] <HixWork> Radiometrix could use that for marketing. Our transmitters are small enough to fit in a bear's jaxie
[15:43] <Babs__> Is that still about the bear or can we now track you moving around swindon?
[15:43] <HixWork> ha!
[15:43] <Babs__> That is dedication to the cause
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[15:43] <HixWork> data-dump
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[15:43] <Babs__> It's like the bit in gattaca when Ethan Hawke gets his legs chopped
[15:44] <ibanezmatt13> Hi guys, I've been trying to sort out the gerber file thing. It's still not showing the text I put in :/
[15:44] <daveake> Actually, the NTX2 had to go in via the slot I cut along his back. Only the aerial needed a hole through his jaxie
[15:44] <Babs__> "No one ever questioned daveake again"
[15:44] <HixWork> 'scuse me for a moment, i need to take a transmission
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[15:45] <daveake> lol
[15:45] <daveake> "I have a lot of data to dump"
[15:45] <fsphil> followed by a cache flush
[15:46] <HixWork> he might need a rabbit with him
[15:46] <Babs__> Rabbit dropping esque for maximum baud rate
[15:46] <mfa298> fsphil: followed by a sync ?
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[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: are you still there for one question?
[15:47] <HixWork> there'd be a need for a disk wipe at some point
[15:47] <mattbrejza> sure
[15:47] <HixWork> good job i didnt typo that one
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> http://www.elektronik-labor.de/Projekte/0411Alpha11.jpg if you check that again
[15:47] <daveake> I'm surprised nobody has suggested the use of a Yogi Yagi
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> my attiny would run at 3.3V
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> and I wonder about the 47k and 220k resistors
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> as this is for 5V
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> also I wonder what NF is supposed to be
[15:48] <mfa298> I was wondering if you were going to take Marmalade sandwiches with you
[15:48] <fsphil> eek, we made a boo boo
[15:48] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobio_
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> ah the text says that the pulses are counted by the AtTiny and at the same time you can listen to the signals
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> I suppose NF goes to a speaker then?
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[15:49] <HixWork> daveake: are you using Pi? You should have used a PIC-a-nic
[15:49] <mattbrejza> without looking at the page NF could do anything
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:49] <fsphil> do bears like raspberry?
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[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> so we can't replicate that system because we don't know that?
[15:50] <HixWork> all berries
[15:50] <HixWork> and wild salmon
[15:50] <fsphil> raspbeary
[15:50] <HixWork> rasp bear pi
[15:50] <mattbrejza> the transistor and capactors are a bit weird, its probably as a debounce/pulse extender
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[15:51] <HixWork> "Rasp bear Pi takes worlds highest (data) dump
[15:51] <mattbrejza> the 5V thing isnt an issue though
[15:52] <Randomskk> NF often means not fitted, too
[15:52] <Randomskk> though probably not in this case
[15:52] <WillTablet> High
[15:52] <mattbrejza> low
[15:53] <fsphil> come back down
[15:53] <WillTablet> Cause hi is highly overrated.
[15:53] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[15:53] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah i don't want to send 9V into that attiny
[15:53] <WillTablet> Hi Lunar
[15:53] <Lunar_LanderU> hi WillTablet
[15:54] <WillTablet> How are you?
[15:54] <Lunar_LanderU> quite OK, thanks and you?
[15:54] <WillTablet> Zorry about the mock german yesterday, I'd had a bit too much caffeine.
[15:54] <WillTablet> Yeah I'm alright.
[15:54] <WillTablet> Leaving in 3 days.
[15:54] <WillTablet> :-(
[15:55] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
[15:55] <fsphil> we've adjusted the weather for your return
[15:55] <fsphil> all back to normal :)
[15:58] <WillTablet> Thanks
[15:58] <WillTablet> They have a really cool water parky thing at the hotel next door.
[15:59] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: I just stopped guessing and wrote the guy who made the circuit an e-mail
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[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> OK, time to go home, talk to you later°!
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[16:20] <astrobiologist_> STATS
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[16:29] <Babs__> daveake: Can I ask you one last i2c imu question?
[16:29] <daveake> sure
[16:31] <Babs__> Thanks - so in all the documentation I've seen, you need to designate everything as either master or slave (or many slaves) for it to work. We need to define something that is orchestrating the show
[16:31] <Babs__> That is easy using the wire library on the arduino
[16:31] <daveake> Yes, so all the IMU devices are slaves and your processor is the master
[16:31] <Babs__> But how do you designate the imu as a slave if it is only a bunch of sensors?
[16:31] <daveake> It's already a slave
[16:32] <daveake> Well, several slaves
[16:32] <Babs__> That will be something in its firmware already built in?
[16:33] <Babs__> "Its" being the group of sensors in the imu?
[16:33] <daveake> The device you get (compass, accelerometer, gyro) is just a chip that behaves as an i2c slave.
[16:33] <daveake> The IMU will be a PCB with all 3 devices on it
[16:34] <Babs__> And it's somehow predesignated as a slave
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[16:34] <daveake> Yes
[16:34] <Babs__> Ok, that makes sense
[16:34] <daveake> Each has a different i2c slave address. You talk to each one in turn, specifying the address (from the datasheet for that device) then send some command that asks it to return whatever value (x,y,z) you want
[16:35] <Babs__> I want to use two arduinos, one to work with the imu to do the heavy lifting calcs, one to handle the GPS and servos
[16:36] <Babs__> But the two arduinos need to communicate clearly (I've worked out the communication bit)
[16:36] <Babs__> Do all the slaves (including the slave arduino) need to hang off pins 4 and 5
[16:37] <Babs__> Or can I have master arduino to slave arduino to slave GPS
[16:37] <daveake> OK you can do that, with a bit of care. The master arduino would poll the IMU devices and also poll the slave Arduino
[16:38] <daveake> I've not done the slave i2c Arduino thing but I did look it up and it seemed pretty easy
[16:39] <daveake> Generally though I'd want to get one processor to do everything, on the basis that you're adding complexity by having 2 of them chatting to each other
[16:39] <daveake> Here's a suitable IMU http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-DOF-IMU-Module-With-L3G4200D-ADXL345-HMC5883L-BMP085-GY-80-for-Arduino-Pic-/400507610619?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item5d401d25fb
[16:40] <Babs__> That's similar to the one I have
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[16:40] <Babs__> I have it communicating through i2c ok
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[16:41] <daveake> cool
[16:41] <Babs__> I just look at the code and calcs and thought it might slow everything down too much to have it going through one processor
[16:41] <daveake> So yes you could add a slave Arduino to the bus
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[16:41] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[16:42] <Babs__> I've looked at the easytransfer library and there is an i2c version
[16:42] <Babs__> I know libraries are the work of the devil but it does all of the checksums etc to check that data has been transferred with integrity etc
[16:43] <Ugi> Babs: The difficult issue is if you need one of the arduinos to be both master (e.g. to read a GPS) and slave (to talk to the other Ardu').
[16:43] <Babs__> And is pretty easy to implement
[16:43] <Babs__> Ugi - yes, that's it
[16:43] <Babs__> I drew a picture http://imgur.com/hMRnjBu
[16:44] <daveake> Babs__ both payloads ready for Sunday - http://imgur.com/GkFRDhN
[16:44] <Babs__> It sort of looks as if I am storing up problems for later
[16:44] <daveake> There's only one i2c bus
[16:44] <Ugi> I think it should still be OK, so long as long as the i2c devices all have different addresses
[16:45] <daveake> So 2 of your lines are the same line
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[16:45] <daveake> Ah Carmel. Lovely place.
[16:45] <Ugi> all of the i2c clock and data lines are electrically the same on all of the devices
[16:45] <Babs__> Nice daveake - textbook use of protectors to stop the lines choppin through the styrene
[16:46] <daveake> fibreglass high-temperature insulation :)
[16:46] <Babs__> daveake: By daveake: There's only one i2c bus
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[16:46] <Babs__> You mean essentially you can only ever have one master on the same circuit
[16:47] <Ugi> strictly, you can only have one master _at a time_
[16:47] <Ugi> the trick will be that you will have to co-ordinate your two Arduinos so they use the bus at different times
[16:47] <daveake> 'scuse the HDR but this is from the CA coastline http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/8147462121/in/set-72157631910031321
[16:47] <Babs__> Hmmm. Sounds complex.
[16:48] <Babs__> Nice. It is basically cloud at the moment.
[16:49] <Babs__> *cloudy
[16:49] <daveake> Babs__ Avoid having 2 masters. Make it so the slave Arduino is just that, and that the master Arduino polls all i2c devices (IMU and slave Arduino)
[16:49] <Ugi> life would be simpler if your communication between the Arduinos could be by another port (serial for example) then each Ardu' could be master of its own i2c devices
[16:50] <Ugi> or do as daveake says
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[16:50] <daveake> SPI also could work
[16:50] <Babs__> Ugi - now that I can do.
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[16:51] <Ugi> if you imagine your picture but with the two Ardu's joined by serial, you now have two separate i2c networks and much less danger of clashes
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[16:52] <Ugi> I would do it that way if poss'
[16:52] <daveake> GPS will need to be i2c but that's OK - Upu can supply
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[16:52] <Ugi> daveake: I have been using GPS on i2c using UPU's 3v3 chipscale board. Works a treat
[16:53] <daveake> Yep, ditto
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[16:54] <daveake> My 2 payloads for Sunday have them
[16:54] <Ugi> Fab'
[16:54] <Ugi> Hoping to fly mine on 18/19 of this month.
[16:54] <Ugi> fingers crossed
[16:54] <daveake> :)
[16:55] <Ugi> sorry 17/18 - I'm mixed up with dates ATM
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[16:55] <Babs__> Ugi: daveake this is how I currently have it set up and coded
[16:55] <Babs__> http://imgur.com/Xz3XGTj
[16:56] <Ugi> that works too but software serial costs a lot of SRAM
[16:56] <daveake> OK, so ditch SS and use real serial for that part, then i2c for the GPS. Sorted.
[16:56] <Ugi> what daveake said
[16:57] <Babs__> And the i2c GPS is just a slightly different form of the one I used for babshab
[16:57] <Babs__> Code slightly modified etc
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[16:58] <Babs__> (As in the tracker code)
[16:58] <daveake> Well the ones Upu supplies have async serial and i2c pins on them, so you use whichever you need
[16:58] <Ugi> code for ublox is essentially the same - it's just that you obtain the string by i2c rather than serial
[16:58] <Ugi> once you have it, the manipulation is no different
[16:58] <Babs__> Ok awesome - thanks guys, it's so much easier when I can talk it through with someone
[16:58] <daveake> The code is pretty similar. You can just read a byte from the GS which is 0xFF if there's no data, or data if there is :)
[16:58] <daveake> GPS
[16:59] <Babs__> Right, I have to go. Honeymoon and new wife attention and all that
[16:59] <Babs__> She is very patient
[16:59] <daveake> Strange
[16:59] <daveake> :)
[16:59] <Babs__> It is just a passing phase ;-). Thanks again
[16:59] <daveake> lol
[17:00] <Ugi> Babs__: keep those priorities straight & go attend to your wife
[17:00] <Ugi> I should attend to going home to mine
[17:00] <Ugi> TTFN guys
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[17:00] <daveake> You're both slaves
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[17:05] <nigelvh> Haha daveake. We're all slaves to something or someone. Might as well choose one that will have sex with you.
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[17:24] <Steve_2E0VET> can anyone point me in th eright direction to be able to get my coordinates onto spacenear.us
[17:24] <fsphil> you can use the mobile tracker website to do that
[17:24] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[17:25] <fsphil> or there is an android app
[17:25] <fsphil> and dl-fldigi can do it, although there are reports of that not working in windows
[17:26] <fsphil> hmmm I have win7 on a machine here I think, might try it
[17:28] <chrisstubbs> fsphil, would be a great bug to get fixed
[17:29] <Steve_2E0VET> does it need to be formatted in any particular way, is it OK in the raw NEMA message
[17:30] <chrisstubbs> the mobile tracker will get your coordinates from ypur phones OS
[17:30] <chrisstubbs> *your
[17:30] <daveake_> Steve_2E0VET When you say "my coordinates", do you mean your base at home (as a mast icon), or when chasing (as a car)?
[17:31] <fsphil> ooooh
[17:31] <fsphil> yea I assumed chase car
[17:31] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[17:31] <Steve_2E0VET> argh no sorry, the rtty message from the balloon
[17:31] <daveake> or the 3rd option then :p
[17:31] <fsphil> lol
[17:31] <Steve_2E0VET> how do i get the balloon to spacenear.us
[17:31] <daveake> I nearly added that but thought no
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[17:31] <fsphil> your payload needs to transmit a UKHAS-style string
[17:31] <daveake> What have you done so far?
[17:32] <fsphil> dl-fldigi will handle the uploads
[17:32] <fsphil> and if there is a payload document created, it should appear
[17:32] <Steve_2E0VET> so far i have got $GPGGA,RMC & VTG messages
[17:32] <Steve_2E0VET> but in raw format
[17:32] <daveake> OK well you only actually need GGA
[17:33] <daveake> First then (assuming you're sticking with NMEA rather than going UBX) is to parse the GGA strings
[17:33] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, so the first question is how do i get rid of the other 2,.
[17:33] <daveake> Just ignore them
[17:33] <Steve_2E0VET> there seems to be some hex codes to get rid of the rest
[17:33] <daveake> Yes you can do that. I do.
[17:33] <fsphil> I never saw the point of getting rid of them
[17:33] <fsphil> unless you're doing all ubx
[17:34] <Steve_2E0VET> fsphil, ??
[17:34] <daveake> Well less scrolling if you decide to send all NMEA to a debug port :)
[17:34] <fsphil> UBX is the binary protocol ublox modules can speak
[17:34] <daveake> My trackers still do NMEA, as I did all this on a different GPS module originally
[17:35] <daveake> And havent't felt the need to recode it since then
[17:35] <fsphil> so just keep receiving lines from the GPS until you get a GGA one
[17:35] <Steve_2E0VET> this is in the program for GLL (to switch off i presume)
[17:35] <Steve_2E0VET> debug.println("Switching off NMEA GLL: ");
[17:35] <Steve_2E0VET> uint8_t setGLL[] = {
[17:35] <Steve_2E0VET> 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x01, 0x08, 0x00, 0xF0, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x01, 0x01, 0x2B };
[17:35] <fsphil> and extract the coordinates
[17:36] <fsphil> then it doesn't matter what else the module sents
[17:36] <fsphil> sends*
[17:37] <mfa298> it's good practice to make sure you're getting the sentence you want regardless of whether you turn the others off or not.
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[17:38] <fsphil> very much so
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[17:39] <Steve_2E0VET> thats all well and good but its taken me nearly a month to get to this stage lol
[17:39] <fsphil> sounds like you're doing nicely
[17:40] <fsphil> there's a fair few concepts to learn in doing this, but each one individually isn't too bad
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[17:40] <mfa298> first rule of any code: don't trust any input that comes from an external source / user.
[17:40] <fsphil> that's my rule in life too
[17:40] <Steve_2E0VET> lol
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[17:41] <mfa298> that also seems to be the main rule that so much php code fails to follow
[17:41] <fsphil> yes
[17:41] <fsphil> though not just php
[17:42] <fsphil> it just happens to be the most visible example
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[17:42] <mfa298> true, although php seems to have some of the worst consequences
[17:42] <fsphil> it does have some, quirks
[17:43] <mfa298> must be time for our friend Bobby Tables: http://xkcd.com/327/
[17:43] Action: fsphil waits for the python people to speak up :)
[17:43] <fsphil> hah
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[17:49] <Steve_2E0VET> dl-fldigi seems to be a bit unreliable (or probably my code) but sometime it misses the first char off, sometimes the first 2 in the rtty message
[17:50] <mfa298> make sure the SQL option is turned off (bottom right)
[17:50] <Steve_2E0VET> yep its off
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[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:50] <mfa298> transmitting a few null bytes or extra $ might help
[17:50] <PB0NER> evening
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[17:51] <fsphil> yea a few nulls will help
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, I got an answer
[17:51] <Steve_2E0VET> yes that would sort it, but thought i would need to transmit a proper message to get the balloon on spacener.us
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> NF is designed to be connected to a low frequency amplifier in order to have an audible output
[17:52] <Steve_2E0VET> ok, so how would fldigi get the corordinates onto the site, is there a wiki?
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[17:52] <mfa298> you would need it to be in the UKHAS style format for spacenear
[17:52] <Steve_2E0VET> how do i find the format - UKHAS sote i presume
[17:53] <Steve_2E0VET> site*
[17:53] <mfa298> but if you can't reliably recieve what's being transmitted that's probably something to fix first.
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[17:53] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, i can realiably receive if i send a couple of extra chars first
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[17:54] <mfa298> that link shows you roughtly what it should like. I believe you can specify in the flightdoc what each part of the sentence is (I've not got that far yet, just been around long enough)
[17:55] <fsphil> yep
[17:56] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, is there any "test system" thats allows you to check its working, before you let go of the balloon
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[17:56] <mfa298> most people just upload to spacenear.us (just try not to test during a live flight)
[17:57] <fsphil> you'd see on the radio
[17:57] <mfa298> As a first step get it displaying and passing the checksum calc on dl-fldigi
[17:57] <fsphil> well not see on the radio -- see it decoding in dl-fldigi
[17:57] <Steve_2E0VET> argh ok... that document doesnt actually tell you how to upload, only what to upload
[17:58] <Randomskk> Steve_2E0VET: what part are you having issues with?
[17:58] <fsphil> you don't do the uploading, dl-fldigi does that
[17:58] <Randomskk> have you got dl-fldigi installed?
[17:58] <Randomskk> it uploads as soon as it sees correct data
[17:58] <Randomskk> but you need a payload document
[17:58] <mfa298> dl-fldigi will do that automatically once it recognises a suitable sentence
[17:58] <Steve_2E0VET> yes, but I am not using the "HAS" version
[17:58] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ to make a payload document
[17:58] <Randomskk> well
[17:58] <Randomskk> you need to use the HAB version
[17:59] <Randomskk> there are ways and means to upload without using dl-fldigi
[17:59] <Steve_2E0VET> ok thanks all. right more reading and coding to do
[17:59] <Randomskk> but it's a lot more annoying
[17:59] <Randomskk> shouldn't be any more coding?
[17:59] <Steve_2E0VET> Randomskk, i will keep to the easy way
[17:59] <Steve_2E0VET> Randomskk,Just when the coing was finished i came accross this http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[18:00] <Steve_2E0VET> coding*
[18:00] <Randomskk> ah
[18:00] <Randomskk> yea you'll want to transmit in that format
[18:00] <Randomskk> hopefully not too much work to alter
[18:00] <Steve_2E0VET> ram YES ah!!
[18:00] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: what are you currently transmitting, is it just raw gps strings ?
[18:00] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, yes
[18:01] <Steve_2E0VET> any tips on how to get a gps signal in my garage, i need to take the laptop outside if i want to get any meaningful data lol
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[18:03] <fsphil> not much option there I'm afraid. other than setting it near a window
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[18:04] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: from the gps GGA string you'll want to parse out the bits of info you need (time, lat, long, alt as a minimum) and use that to generate a UKHAS style string.
[18:06] <fsphil> goodness, a 30cm ribbon cable for the PiCam is £4.75
[18:07] <daveake> yup
[18:08] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, that means i will need to google the "parse" command
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> I find the lack of being able to use random cameras on the Pi deeply annoying.
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> I mean - I can see having to buy a camera 'licence' - just about.
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> But not being able to hook up random cameras - meh.
[18:09] <Steve_2E0VET> arh... i might be able to find a bit of github code to do that... github another learner curve
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[18:13] <Randomskk> hey fergusnoble nice kickstarter ;)
[18:14] <mfa298> there are functions to help you parse a string in C although they can have some interesting gotchas (so you need to read the descritpions carefully), Having an understaning of how C does strings can help as well.
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[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> OK I am at my board now
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> how does that groundplane business work again?
[18:58] nosebleedkt (~nose@ppp046177034083.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[18:58] <nosebleedkt> hello everyone
[18:59] <nosebleedkt> I run through that zero coordinates problem
[18:59] <nosebleedkt> there is a link on ukhas which explains it
[18:59] <nosebleedkt> can anyone give it ?
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[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> one moment nosebleedkt
[19:01] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander, i found it
[19:01] <nosebleedkt> :)
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> cool :)
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> I am just building a board in EALGE
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:03] <nosebleedkt> :P
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[19:04] <ibanezmatt13> Good evening :)
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> why does he crap out now
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> there is a header for V_in and GND
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> he wants to connect both to V_in for some reason
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> hm clicking ratsnest solved it
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13> Having fun in Eagle Lunar_Lander ? :)
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> can I actually get rid of a groundplane again?
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah got it
[19:08] <nosebleedkt> someone expert on that ?
[19:08] <nosebleedkt> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[19:08] <nosebleedkt> I have this : 40.0995385,23.4354719 coming directly from ublox.
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> I divide both decimal numbers by 60
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> so I get 40.16589,23.72578
[19:09] <nosebleedkt> I add the missing zero
[19:10] <nosebleedkt> so it gets 40.016589
[19:10] <nosebleedkt> but wtf! in the map this is wrong! If I remove the zero then it's correct
[19:11] <mfa298> nosebleedkt: are you using nmea or ubx output from the gps ?
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[19:11] <nosebleedkt> ubx
[19:11] <nosebleedkt> ubx0
[19:12] <mfa298> from what others have said I thought it was already in a suitable format to store as a float
[19:13] <mfa298> (I've not used ubx as I don't have a UBlox yet)
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> I've used UBX and I had a function that converted it into a form that worked. Let me find it
[19:13] <mfa298> with nmea you've got to do the /60 as it provides the data as DDDMM.MMMM
[19:14] <mfa298> so with NMEA you split out the degrees part and then divide the mm.mmmm by 60 to give it as a decimal rather than minutes
[19:14] <nosebleedkt> "Padding Issues
[19:14] <nosebleedkt> Excellent! However, s now contains the string “54.86611”, not “54.086611”. Oops.
[19:14] <nosebleedkt> The padding error will appear when the decimal part is below 0.1. Our float of 54.086611 gets split into 54 and 86611, and the resulting string is “54.86611” instead of 54.086611. To correctly print this the second integer must be zero padded to the correct number of decimal places:
[19:14] <nosebleedkt> snprintf(s, 30, "%i.%06li", i1, i2);"
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastie.org/8209049
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[19:17] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
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[19:18] <mfa298> nosebleedkt: in that example I think you've split the float into two integers 54 and 086611. As the second number is now an integer (as I think floating point is more tricky on the arduino) by default it will remove leading zeros. Using a format specifier like that snprintf will force it to print leading zeros.
[19:18] <nosebleedkt> yes thats the point
[19:18] <nosebleedkt> and thats what i do in my code
[19:19] <nosebleedkt> but here if i add the leading zero
[19:19] <nosebleedkt> it gives me a bad point in the map
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> daveake, did you use the pi cam to record your babbage test jump?
[19:20] <daveake> yes
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> is there a way to have EAGLE's ratsnest not show the GND connections?
[19:20] <mfa298> I don't know enough arduino but could you not store it as a float/double and use dtostrf as in the top of that page ?
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> I thought that Lunar_Lander, I'm not sure if there is
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> Ah, it seems to have flickering dark lines on it?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> dtostrf is available
[19:21] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander, preparing 2nd mission?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> but you need to have stdlib on
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, yeah
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> we will have two lines
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> university balloons
[19:21] <nosebleedkt> lol
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> and private balloons
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> on the latter, we will fly with ham radio people
[19:21] <daveake> chrisstubbs Yeah that'll be the low energy light bulb
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> running ATV for example
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, if you stick a ground plane down so all the grounds are routed, then they go away ;)
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> Ah that wouild explain it daveake!
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> but the thing is
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> if I groundplane it now, I can't move parts anymore right?
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> You can hide the GND net but im not sure if ita a good idea
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> because if I move parts, the holes will stick where they are
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> incase you fortget to route it later :P
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, http://s.gullipics.com/image/v/k/u/5yv92j-kuj3bs-zaks/IMG0663.jpeg
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> first SMD work :)
[19:23] <nosebleedkt> lol
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[19:25] <LeoBodnar> Good evening
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> Upu: Have you flown APRS in Europe yet?
[19:26] <Upu> evening
[19:26] <Upu> yes LeoBodnar
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> How did it work?
[19:27] <Upu> pretty well until the step up died
[19:27] <Upu> I landed on a mountain in Austria
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar> Ah, it was that one
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> oh god
[19:27] <mfa298> and I believe picked up by listeners in the UK hence proving the futility of radio licensing
[19:28] <Upu> yes I was digirepeated by a number of UK stations whilst over Germany
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> I understand that one needs full HAM license to use APRS over EU?
[19:28] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Data/m0upu-11.htm
[19:28] <Upu> yes
[19:28] <Upu> and you need to transmit the correct ITU code
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> DK/M**** ?
[19:29] <Upu> note the call sign prefixed with PA/M0UPU initially
[19:29] <Upu> 2013-04-13 14:12:37 UTC: M0UPU-11>APRS,MB7UXN*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAS,MB7UBP:!/40zCOD/VO /A=070127|!P|PA/M0UPU,1470,0
[19:29] <Upu> note MB7UBP
[19:29] <Upu> UK Station
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> K
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> How can I get full HAM license? :)
[19:30] <Upu> 2013-04-13 18:39:05 UTC: M0UPU-11>APRS,M0JAJ*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,MB7UIP:!/4o:(P^W5O /A=113709|"[|DL/M0UPU,2756,0
[19:31] <Upu> right out over Germany
[19:31] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, head over to your local radio club!
[19:31] <mfa298> Unfortunately these days you have to work up through foundation, intermediate and then full exams
[19:31] <Upu> 34k float
[19:31] <mfa298> but you might be able to do the foundation at the conference :D
[19:31] <Upu> yes LeoBodnar local radio club
[19:31] <Upu> you'll walk it
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> I see so you can't just sit full one direct?
[19:32] <Upu> no
[19:33] <mfa298> From what I remember foundation and intermediate can be done pretty much anytime (as long as there's a willingness by the relevant people at the club) Full has to be done on set dates/times.
[19:33] <mfa298> although none of it is that hard.
[19:33] <Upu> yes
[19:33] <Upu> I did foundation and intermediate at the same time
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> How can I find a local radio club? XD
[19:34] <Upu> Step 1 : Grow beard
[19:34] <mfa298> rsgb should tell you (I think there's a search for your local club on there)
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> Step 2 : Get attitude
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> :)
[19:34] <Upu> http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-and-education/find-a-club/
[19:34] <mfa298> Step 2: Stop washing
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> step 3: thow away all shoes except slippers
[19:35] <mfa298> If you ever go to a radio rally try to pick the ones that are outside :P
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, how's the payload coming on now; have you resolved the problem?
[19:37] <Upu> no still bashing my head against a wall
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> :(
[19:37] <Upu> I just can't work out why its not working
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> software issue?
[19:37] <Upu> no idea
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> You need to live in Japan Upu
[19:37] <Upu> can't get any consistancy
[19:38] <Upu> if I load the varicode into progmem dominoex doesn't work
[19:38] <Upu> if I load it into normal ram it runs out of ram
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> that doesn't sound good
[19:39] <Upu> currently the primary alphabet is working
[19:39] <Upu> but
[19:39] <Upu> oh how wierd
[19:39] <bertrik> compiler should warn you if it doesn't fit in progmem, right?
[19:39] <Upu> as I was saying no consistancy
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> You need a few dozens of chars
[19:39] <Upu> $$$$$PAVA,23,00:00:00,53.75266,-1.81789,259,4,32*6963
[19:39] <Upu> didn't need time anyway
[19:39] <ibanezmatt13> working?
[19:40] <Upu> not really its far too random and my time isn't working
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> you working on it now?
[19:41] <Upu> yes
[19:41] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, keep at it :)
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[19:42] <ibanezmatt13> Evening S_Mark
[19:45] <Steve_2E0VET> any idea what this means "TinyGPS does not name a type"
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Steve_2E0VET, does it give you a line the error is on?
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[19:47] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, gps.cpp6: error: 'TinyGPS does not name a type
[19:47] <chrisstubbs> Have you installed the library?
[19:47] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, gps.cpp:79: error 'tgps' was not defined in this scope
[19:48] <Steve_2E0VET> I think so?
[19:48] <Steve_2E0VET> its in the sketch
[19:48] <chrisstubbs> you should have a folder at: arduino-1.0.2-windows\arduino-1.0.2\libraries\TinyGPS
[19:49] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, I haven't got it in here C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\libraries
[19:50] <chrisstubbs> okay you need to download the library
[19:50] <chrisstubbs> and unzip it and stick the tinygps folder in there
[19:50] <jcoxon> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swiftnav/985736936?token=398b4977
[19:50] <jcoxon> its fergusnoble
[19:51] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, I have been looking for the zip but cannot seem to find i
[19:51] <Steve_2E0VET> it*
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> their site is either too slow for my patience or down
[19:52] <chrisstubbs> let me zip mine up and host it
[19:53] <chrisstubbs> chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/TinyGPS.zip
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[19:55] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, thanks got it
[19:56] Action: ibanezmatt13 has chronic toothache for some reason
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> Probably because I'm trying so hard to get Eagle to cooperate with me
[19:58] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, after all that its actually TinyGPS_UBX.h that I'm trying to get
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> Ah right
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> I never used the ubx version
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> I just stuck with the standard one that does NMEA
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon: $14k seems ridiculously low for such a aproduct
[19:58] <chrisstubbs> Have a google, try and find a mirror
[20:00] <mattbrejza> im not too sure how they intend to use the carrier to increase accuarcy when they down convert it to whatever the IF is
[20:00] <mattbrejza> although i guess using the IF still gets an accuracy improvement
[20:02] <Steve_2E0VET> chrisstubbs, yup found it thanks
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[20:03] <LeoBodnar> Isn't phase reference relative just as well as currently time delay is relative for position finding.
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[20:04] <LeoBodnar> IF phase is the same for all satellites so can be cancelled out
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[20:05] <LeoBodnar> *LO not IF
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[20:07] <LeoBodnar> Upu: what was the power of your APRS transmitter?
[20:07] <Upu> 300mW
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> Do you think 10-50mW would work?
[20:08] <Upu> most likely
[20:08] <Upu> I just use it as the HX1 is 300mW off the shelf
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> OK
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> What is the max deviation of FM carrier for APRS?
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> 3kHz?
[20:09] <Upu> yes I think so
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> Cheers
[20:10] <chrisstubbs> Will it be a full systems test with floaty APRS next weekend or just rtty next weekend upu?
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> -next weekend
[20:11] <Upu> just rtty
[20:11] <Upu> was going to fly a DominoEX one too
[20:11] <Upu> but I can't get it working
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> You said it works for primary alphabet?
[20:12] <Upu> yeah I'm getting CRC errors with data coming back from the GPS
[20:12] <Upu> My initial issues were lack of RAM
[20:12] <Upu> then by moving into PROGMEM it broke the timing
[20:12] <Upu> so now using 1/2 the alphabet which seems to work
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> Oh dear
[20:12] <Upu> however now getting issues with data coming back from GPS
[20:13] <Upu> so going to strip the AVR and parts from the board tommorro
[20:13] <LeoBodnar> Are you sure CRC errors not caused by noise on Tx/Rx lines?
[20:13] <Upu> and wire it to a PAVA
[20:13] <Upu> which I know works
[20:13] <Upu> I have no idea
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Try scoping the Rx line
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> Or using Seale
[20:14] <Upu> don't have a scope
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> Do you get errors even with TX off?
[20:15] <Upu> I issue a command to turn off NMEA data
[20:15] <Upu> which seems to be being ignored
[20:15] <mattbrejza> LeoBodnar: i guess the accuracy from looking at carrier phase is more closely related to sample rate rather than IF freq then
[20:15] <Upu> as when I put it on the analyser I can still see NMEA
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> TX is off?
[20:16] <Upu> TX from what to what ?
[20:16] <Upu> RF TX ?
[20:16] <LeoBodnar> Is UHF carrier off when you get UART errors?
[20:16] <Upu> on
[20:17] <Upu> its transmitting
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> Try with it off
[20:17] <Upu> 5 mins let me set it uo
[20:17] <Upu> up
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> Retain the UHF TX timing but cut the carrier off
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> If you get no errors then you have RF feedback on RX/TX UART lines
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> Stick magic 33pF caps on them if so
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> or 120pF, or whatever you have
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[20:22] <Upu> ok radio off
[20:22] <Upu> Debug Output Init
[20:22] <Upu> $$$$$PAVA,1,33,00:00:00,0.00000,0.00000,0,0,32*573E
[20:22] <Upu> 33= CRC error
[20:22] <Upu> so still getting it
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[20:23] <S_Mark> hello ibanezmatt13
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> Hi there
[20:23] <Upu> hey ibanezmatt13
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> Hi :)
[20:23] <S_Mark> Sorry I left my irc on all day its been logging in and out!
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: I don't know, instinctively when system is stationary and IF is very low then it is almost static
[20:23] <Upu> I'll run the radio off the PAVA board
[20:23] <Upu> see if that fixes it
[20:23] <ibanezmatt13> nps S_Mark
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> Do you generate UART by bit-banging or in hardware?
[20:25] <Upu> hardware UART
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[20:25] <WillTablet> Hi
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I was in McDonald's earlier and just as I was getting a straw for my milkshake I thought of something... ;)
[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> And I did it :)
[20:26] <WillTablet> What did you do?
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> Can you make bare-bones sketch that just sits in the loop and sends UART commands to GPS?
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> I temporarily borrowed 4 straws :)
[20:26] <WillTablet> Why?
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> For my 1/4 wave antenna
[20:26] <WillTablet> Heh
[20:27] <Upu> you need to borrow a 5th
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> Damn
[20:27] <WillTablet> Duh
[20:27] <WillTablet> :-)
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> That's ok. I'll go tomorrow and get another milkshake :P
[20:27] <WillTablet> Lol
[20:27] <WillTablet> How'd your summer going?
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, its probably cheaper to buy a pack of straws :P
[20:27] <WillTablet> How's
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> So so WillTablet. Good in that my projects coming on well, frustrating in that I am starting to dislike Eagle
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> Probably chrisstubbs
[20:28] <WillTablet> Hmm
[20:28] <Upu> starting to dislike eagle is part of learning it
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[20:29] <ibanezmatt13> Yep, I think I've reached the point where I can't learn anything more myself :)
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> The only way to get the hang of it is just to carry on trying
[20:29] <WillTablet> It's probably like parents, you like them for a decade or so, then hate them for a decade or so and then usually come to a decision as to whether you like them after that.
[20:30] <chrisstubbs> I ended up just starting my first board again and putting the first one down as practice
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> How many decades experience you have WillTablet :)
[20:30] <WillTablet> Well, I don't hate my parents.
[20:30] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think many do really
[20:31] <WillTablet> They just make some misjudgements.
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: I've had many "practices" :)
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> Eaglephobia
[20:31] <chrisstubbs> Keep at it :)
[20:31] <WillTablet> Like not letting me fly a HAB
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[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> To be honest, I can't seem to be able to make a PCB consisting of an LED, switch and 3v battery :P
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> You can checkout any time you like
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, well ask away when your stuck. if its something basic I may be able to help
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> I thought I'd nailed it with my latest PCB, but I looked at the outputted gerber files and decided to christen it a "practice"
[20:33] <ibanezmatt13> I will do chrisstubbs. I do a lot of asking with Eagle I'm afraid
[20:33] <chrisstubbs> As did I
[20:33] <WillTablet> But you can never leave,
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, would they let you do a foil pico?
[20:34] <WillTablet> Nope
[20:34] <WillTablet> It involves other people see.
[20:34] <chrisstubbs> let go of a 8" party balloon you stole from pizza hut?
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> *9"
[20:35] <WillTablet> People who I have no direct association with.
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> You can do it on your own if you must
[20:35] <chrisstubbs> foils are doable on your own
[20:35] <WillTablet> But they think it'll hit a powerline.
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> they won't need to know
[20:35] <WillTablet> And I'll have to pay £500
[20:35] <WillTablet> Yes they will.
[20:35] <WillTablet> I'll need to find it,
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> Rebel! Blow up a party balloon!
[20:36] <eroomde> a party balloon won't do anything to a powerline
[20:36] <eroomde> like a bird doesn't
[20:36] <WillTablet> Well, try telling that to my parents.
[20:36] <eroomde> i can't
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> Does hitting a powerline cost £500 these days?
[20:37] <WillTablet> eroomde, you could :-)
[20:37] <WillTablet> Probably.
[20:37] <chrisstubbs> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBvjqvrR7fI
[20:37] <WillTablet> The thing is it might hit a power line.
[20:37] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: it never gets old :)
[20:38] <WillTablet> Just like you *might* all be paedophiles and not just very generous people.
[20:38] <eroomde> there's a nonzero chance of most things
[20:38] <WillTablet> Exactly.
[20:39] <WillTablet> But.
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[20:39] <WillTablet> There's a >0.5% chance and I'm a kid and I can't take risks that big.
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[20:39] <ibanezmatt13> Reaching to the back of a monitor to plug in a HDMI cable and knocking out the DVI cable for your PC is the mosy annoying thing
[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> most*
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> BBC says that most paedophiles pretend to be 14 year old kids on IRCs.
[20:40] <WillTablet> I'm 13, Jimmy
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[20:40] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, was that Rory Cellan-Jones that said that by any chance?
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[20:42] <WillTablet> Upu *might* be a paedophile. Just as there *might* be a flying spaghetti monster.
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> He reminds of Computer Chronicles http://archive.org/details/CC517_commodore_64
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[20:43] <LeoBodnar> Since when 13 year old kids talk about risk mitigation strategies?
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[20:43] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[20:43] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jJ-ttrSd8
[20:43] <charolastra> kids grow up so fast these days
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[20:44] <WillTablet> So being 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure isn't enough
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> nope
[20:45] <WillTablet> Shoot
[20:45] <WillTablet> Androirc is showing no text
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> designing a PCB is nontrivial
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> Interesting - more random shapes.
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> http://dx.com/s/puzzle+magnets
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[20:51] <WillTablet> Not sure why I'm still interested in HAB
[20:51] <WillTablet> I do like my parents but they are bloody good at quashing dreams.
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[21:00] <Steve_2E0VET> what/how do you decide if its 7 or 8 bpc and 1or 2 stop bits
[21:01] <mattbrejza> use 7 data, 2 stops
[21:02] <Steve_2E0VET> i am reading someone elses code to try and see what they are doing?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza,
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know anymore
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> I was almost done
[21:04] <WillTablet> Hi again Lunar
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> now I screwed it up
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi Willdude123
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> WillTablet
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> I deleted the programming adapter in the schematic
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> now eagle complains about the F/B annoatation
[21:04] <mattbrejza> can you eit>undo until its fixed?
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> I have a folder for a python module on my Pi and I need to get it installed into python. After changing directory to it, is it sudo python setup.py install or something like that?
[21:05] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 is there a readme?
[21:05] <mattbrejza> the other thing is when did you last save? if you close without saving will that fix it?
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> nah WillTablet, I think it might be this, one sec
[21:06] <ibanezmatt13> yes it was, got it
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, just doing undo
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, you will only make the f/b mistake once ;)
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> backups?
[21:08] Action: WillTablet wisely nods in approval of what chrisstubbs said despite having no clue what he means
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[21:09] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, eagle backannotates/forwardannotates changes between board and schematic
[21:09] <chrisstubbs> if you close one they get horribly out of sync
[21:09] <mattbrejza> if you deleted just one part you can normally fix it, but normally easiest to reopen
[21:10] <WillTablet> Uhuh
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> now it deactivated all libraries
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> what is this?
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> I don't want to do it anymore
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> so close to success
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yet so far away
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> exactly how I feel Lunar_Lander
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> and I assume
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> if I delete the board file, I can do all the routing again, right?
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[21:16] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, yes
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> try to run the ERC first
[21:16] <chrisstubbs> see if that churns up an easy solution
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah it says the programming header is missing in the board
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> here now comes the million dollar problem
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> the part is available to add in the schematic, but not in the board view
[21:17] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/1cE8L9o
[21:18] <mattbrejza> can you delete parts in one until theyre both the same?
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:18] <chrisstubbs> Need some kind of backup solution that duplicates your eagle files every second
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> and lets you restore then when you make a serious balls-up
[21:19] <Gadget-Mac> GIT / SVN eagle files are now XML :)
[21:19] <mattbrejza> well it keeps 10 backups every time you hit save
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> mattbrejza, I wondered what those stray files were
[21:21] <ibanezmatt13> are there any satellites out at this time?
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> How can I access the backups?
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> ibanezmatt13, http://www.heavens-above.com/
[21:22] <chrisstubbs> wow that website hasnt changed in the last like 10 years
[21:22] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: look in your project dir, those .s#1 files are backups
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:22] <mattbrejza> just rename and open
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs: I'm sat here like a right idiot with my gps antenna hanging out my window trying to get a decode on my tracker :)
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> Oh
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> NASA probably put them away for the night
[21:23] <chrisstubbs> try again in the morning
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[21:24] <ibanezmatt13> I thought these things were permanently up
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[21:25] <WillTablet> Ooh I'm trying to download a 35mb file.
[21:25] <WillTablet> This might take about 1/2 an hour.
[21:26] <chrisstubbs> Right im calling it a night, laters!
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> night chrisstubbs
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[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> now
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> how can I remove parts from both the schematic and the board?
[21:28] <mattbrejza> no need to remove if theyre on both sides
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> I thought removing from the schematic automatically removed from board too
[21:28] <mattbrejza> you only want to remove the differences
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I have the same board now
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> no
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> I solved the problem by loading one of the backups
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> and I want to get rid of the ICSP header
[21:32] <ibanezmatt13> Any luck Upu?
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[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> today's course on anger management at work is brought to you by Lunar_Lander...
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[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> man
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> the final signals
[21:54] <ibanezmatt13> Lunar_Lander: I can assure you that you will be lying there at 3am labelling nets and other things in your mind. Happened to me when I was still doing Eagle at 11pm :P
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:55] <ibanezmatt13> Not think you should take a break from it?
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> I am done save for only one signal
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> that won't fit
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[21:55] <ibanezmatt13> the most frustrating software...
[21:57] <jarod> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmcMjy6ACc&hd=1 - coax static electricity discone
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[22:04] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's bed time for me, night :)
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> OH MAn
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, are you there?
[22:16] <arko> http://www.flickr.com/photos/travisgoodspeed/9352871540/
[22:16] <arko> hah
[22:18] <fsphil> what the heck is that?
[22:18] <jarod> a hippie on a bus
[22:20] <arko> i want one of those for hab chasing
[22:21] <fsphil> mmm
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[22:21] <fsphil> though I think a relay by quadcopter is the future :)
[22:21] <fsphil> surrounded by hills? launch it and get it up high to hear the signal
[22:22] <arko> yeah
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXkkMDKZS8o
[22:22] <arko> we were joking about that when our hab landed in mountains
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> hi arko
[22:26] <nigelvh> Howdy Lunar_Lander
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> product http://s.gullipics.com/image/w/o/3/5yv92j-kujctv-2frx/WorldsStrangestPCB.png
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[22:28] <nigelvh> Doing alright. Just working.
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> I am almost running into walls while working
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4qB6n1cm04
[22:34] <nigelvh> Was there something you needed Lunar, or just saying Hi?
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, yeah wanted to show you what is probably world's crappiest PCB
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> omg no way
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2013/08/05/centimeter-level-precision-gps-for-500/
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> Fnoble has been busy
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/s/f/5yv92j-kujdla-xwfk/WorldsStrangestPCB2.png
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> this PCB is crap
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[22:47] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, thanks again for helping yesterday
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:55] <nigelvh> You're quite welcome
[22:55] <nigelvh> Have a good evening
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> well I hope I have one
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> have to check this PCB again
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> you too :)
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> cu :)
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 6 2013