highaltitude.log.20130804

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[00:06] <SpeedEvil> in?
[00:07] <crash_18974> in a 1 or 2 day flight
[00:07] <crash_18974> it was dropping quick
[00:08] <crash_18974> SpeedEvil: I'm interested and I'm trying to figure out how all this works. Seems very cool.
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[01:35] <fsphil> ah it's finally landed
[01:41] <crash_18974> what happens when they land 1000k away?
[01:41] <crash_18974> do people in the community help find them?
[01:45] <fsphil> they are occasionally found by members of the public
[01:45] <fsphil> but ideally, if it's one you want back, you'd be near the landing area before it lands :)
[01:47] <crash_18974> well I actually meant this community. The initial path of kt5tk went darn close to my house. But that was 2000km away
[01:48] <fsphil> if it lands near a station yea, they'll sometimes go out
[01:48] <fsphil> we've a pretty good network of stations who track here in the UK
[01:48] <fsphil> well mostly in the south
[01:51] <crash_18974> I should have said launch was 2000km away, the path was within 40km of my house.
[01:52] <fsphil> this was a fairly unusual flight. most are not meant to float like that
[01:52] <fsphil> they'll go up to about 30km, burst and fall back
[01:54] <fsphil> people have been experimenting with foil balloons recently, that go up to about 6/7 km and float - if the float lasts a while they can cover huge distances
[01:55] <crash_18974> ah, foil because it doesn't expand?
[01:57] <fsphil> yes
[01:57] <fsphil> it will eventually stretch and tear though
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[02:04] <crash_18974> fsphil: thank you Sir for the info. It was good talking. my internet is going to trash though.
[02:07] <fsphil> sounds bad
[02:09] <crash_18974> 4 radio hops to a bad connection
[02:09] <crash_18974> it works by accident. but better than satellite. or cell.
[02:12] <fsphil> gonna get some sleep. g'nite!
[02:12] <crash_18974> night
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[02:48] <heathkid> anyone heard from WB8ELK?
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[03:30] <heathkid> anyone still awake?
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[03:45] <arko> YES
[03:45] <arko> i dont sleep
[03:45] <arko> im robot
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[03:58] <heathkid> of course you are
[03:58] <heathkid> hello arko!
[03:58] <arko> yo yo!
[03:59] <KT5TK-7> BLT33.9 floater was recovered! See pictures at http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/
[04:09] <arko> nice!!
[04:09] <arko> congrats :)
[04:16] <heathkid> thoughts? http://www.monsterflashlight.com/?gclid=CM3c9-zA4rgCFQ1gMgodSyYA-w
[04:17] <heathkid> the Model #R5-350-1C+
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[04:18] <heathkid> http://shop.monsterflashlight.com/MF-Tactical-R5-350-1C-Cree-LED-Compact-Flashlight-1-Mode-R5-350-1C.htm
[04:25] <arko> nice
[04:25] <arko> i personally like shurefire
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[04:48] <KT5TK-7> arko: Do you want to launch a flashlight in a balloon?
[04:48] <arko> oooo
[04:48] <arko> that would be nice
[04:48] <arko> wonder how it would effect flight/burst
[04:49] <KT5TK-7> Well, it would add some weight
[04:49] <KT5TK-7> But with our recent night launches we thought the same
[04:49] <arko> would be a cool experiment
[04:49] <arko> especially if you can visuall track it
[04:50] <arko> the dot disappears at burst :)
[04:50] <KT5TK-7> We were thinking of putting a bright LED inside a latex balloon
[04:50] <KT5TK-7> so that it illuminates the whole surface
[04:51] <KT5TK-7> That should be better visible than a small spot
[04:55] <arko> yeah i was assuming thats what yo u meant :)
[04:56] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/kbAorKK.png
[04:56] <wrea> Darkside: haha
[04:56] <wrea> My gf would kill you. She hates them so much
[04:56] <wrea> Let me show her
[04:57] <Darkside> UNACCEPTABLE
[04:57] <Darkside> 10 YEARS DUNGEON
[04:57] <KT5TK-7> Darkside: At what frequency????
[04:57] <Darkside> NO TRIAL
[04:57] <Darkside> 20m
[04:57] <Darkside> lol
[04:57] <Darkside> we were playing with different data modes
[04:57] <Darkside> and yes, we had identified beforehand
[04:57] <KT5TK-7> Ha, nice
[04:57] <arko> Darkside: amazing
[04:59] <wrea> Lemongrab is probably my favorite
[04:59] <KT5TK-7> So are you transmitting pictures with some kind of MFSK?
[04:59] <Darkside> yeah
[04:59] <Darkside> MFSK16
[04:59] <Darkside> using dl-fldigi's mfsk image mode
[04:59] <KT5TK-7> interesting
[05:00] <KT5TK-7> How long do the images take?
[05:00] <Darkside> that one was about 40 seconds
[05:00] <KT5TK-7> good enough
[05:00] <KT5TK-7> compareable to SSTV
[05:03] <KT5TK-7> Sven (DL7AD/AF5LI) is just trying to set up a 300 Bd APRS tracker in my car. No igates in this area on VHF anymore...
[05:03] <KT5TK-7> So we'll try 20m APRS
[05:04] <Darkside> not 30m?
[05:04] <Darkside> i thought most HF APRS was on 30m
[05:04] <Darkside> at least, it is here
[05:04] <KT5TK-7> We have no experience and only a 20m antenna.
[05:05] <Darkside> oh..
[05:05] <Darkside> well make sure your tones are right
[05:05] <KT5TK-7> But we'll try whatever Hamstick we may get in resonance
[05:05] <Darkside> what tracker are you using?
[05:05] <KT5TK-7> Argentdata mini T3
[05:05] <Darkside> cool
[05:06] <Darkside> i've got an opentracker USB in my car
[05:06] <Darkside> works a treat
[05:06] <KT5TK-7> It's an experiment. We've never tried shortwave APRS
[05:07] <KT5TK-7> But Sven made at least 20 QSOs on JT65 mobile today
[05:07] <Darkside> well
[05:07] <Darkside> i dont really count JT65 as a QSO
[05:07] <Darkside> as its a set sequence
[05:07] <Darkside> HI 59 73
[05:07] <Darkside> boring
[05:07] <Darkside> i prefer PSK31
[05:08] <Darkside> anyway, yo'll need far far better conditions for HF APRS to work than for JT65
[05:08] <KT5TK-7> Sven likes it. He worked Europe from the car at 70 mph
[05:08] <Darkside> yes
[05:08] <Darkside> i've worked DX mobile with PSK31
[05:08] <Darkside> and PSK63
[05:09] <Darkside> i think i workd 20 countries on one trip
[05:09] <Darkside> we also did th efiret FreeDV mobile contact
[05:09] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-fgr-tkboQ
[05:10] <Darkside> i was using a Codan NGT SRx and a Codan 9350 mobil whip antenna
[05:10] <Darkside> workd like a rocket
[05:11] <KT5TK-7> Ha, nice. We have also aguy in our group wo does this stuff. I never tried.
[05:12] <Darkside> but yeah, we got hte driver working freedv :D
[05:12] <Darkside> just stuck th headset on his head
[05:12] <Darkside> and i pressed the PTT
[05:12] <Darkside> lol
[05:12] Action: heathkid is lost
[05:12] Action: heathkid needs a tracker on himself... :P
[05:12] <heathkid> I did SSTV years ago...
[05:12] <heathkid> storm chasing
[05:13] <heathkid> and also for receiving radar updates before 3G (or 2G or GSM...)
[05:14] <heathkid> either my interface glitched or Darkside... you type FAST!!!
[05:15] <Darkside> probably both
[05:15] <Darkside> ok bbl
[05:16] <heathkid> I just got a screens worth timestamped in 1 second!
[05:16] <heathkid> but... I'm hitting the GTS button (going to sleep)... night everyone...
[05:16] <heathkid> zzzzzzzzzzz
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[06:54] <mclane> good morning upu
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[07:17] <Upu> morning mclane
[07:18] <mclane> Ive got a quick question: what are the ordering options for the lmt2 from your shop?
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[07:27] <Upu> pm
[07:29] <Reactive> hi Darkside
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[07:55] <Darkside> Reactive:
[07:55] <Darkside> yes?
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[09:00] <chrisg7ogx> is Icarus txing please?
[09:04] <jcoxon> no chrisg7ogx someone is playing through the example wav on the wiki
[09:05] <jcoxon> (or its the ghost in the machine)
[09:05] <chrisg7ogx> jcoxon ok thanks thought id lostthe plot too early!
[09:05] <Darkside> spooooky
[09:05] <chrisg7ogx> nice propagation!
[09:06] <eroomde> it's probably txing telemetry rather than 'please'
[09:06] <eroomde> the former being a more pragmatic approach to being found, the latter more desparate
[09:06] <number10> flexible circuits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GVMBTbk2O0
[09:07] <eroomde> even lighter trackers
[09:07] <eroomde> for the pathologically inclined
[09:07] <number10> :)
[09:08] <chrisg7ogx> LOL
[09:08] <chrisg7ogx> another beautiful day here
[09:09] <number10> there is a company opposite work called plastic logic - not as thin
[09:09] <eroomde> not so great here
[09:09] <eroomde> although i've been enjoying the temps the last couple of days being 32/33
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[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> Good morning
[09:09] <eroomde> pleasingly cool after a week of 40s in italy!
[09:09] <chrisg7ogx> show off!
[09:09] <eroomde> :)
[09:10] <eroomde> but seriously, you can see why people don;t get stuff done. it's impossible to do anything in that kind of heat except for mentally building up to a late dinner
[09:10] <chrisg7ogx> playing with NAVTEX here
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> same in Spain eroomde
[09:11] <Darkside> pff
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[09:11] <Darkside> more like people in europe are just weak
[09:11] <eroomde> i love keith floyd so so much
[09:11] <Darkside> we have MONTHS of >35 degree heat
[09:11] <number10> build a navtec receiver http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/91694/Navtex.pdf chrisg7ogx
[09:11] <Darkside> and often weeks of >40 degree keat
[09:11] <Darkside> heat*
[09:11] <eroomde> yeah but you don;t have a food culture to distract you
[09:11] <Darkside> chrisg7ogx: fldigi?
[09:12] <Darkside> i had a short QSO with someone in that mode this morning :P
[09:12] <Darkside> while were were playing around with fldigi
[09:12] <eroomde> "a day without wine, they say, it like a day without know-what-i-mean"
[09:12] <chrisg7ogx> no freeware ....http://www.yand.wavetalk.org/
[09:12] <Darkside> chrisg7ogx: fldigi does NAVTEX now
[09:13] <Darkside> and SITORB
[09:13] <eroomde> "be more spotting and show them my chopping, clive, come on"
[09:13] <eroomde> sporting*
[09:13] <chrisg7ogx> ok thanks and number10 tks for Doc
[09:13] <chrisg7ogx> any designs for long wave antennas?
[09:14] <eroomde> "into this little pan, ideal for one person - that's the problem with borrowing things from bloody hotels, you have to use what you're given"
[09:14] <eroomde> he says sautéed a single onion in a paella pan
[09:16] <chrisg7ogx> is there no UK balloon activity today?
[09:18] <jcoxon> eroomde, you watching bbc2 right now then?
[09:19] <number10> eroomde: there is a note from floyd on te wall at Hix oyster and fish house in lyme regis - says something like shall we meet for a spot of lunch and a few glasses of red
[09:19] <eroomde> jcoxon: yes
[09:19] <jcoxon> haha
[09:19] <eroomde> his attempt at pultizer-prize winning travel writing was also good
[09:19] <eroomde> you too?
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[09:20] <jcoxon> not really out of choice...
[09:20] <eroomde> hi helen
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[09:21] <chrisg7ogx> you could always tell there was a new first lieutenant writing the ship's program before deploying to the West Indies..Every working day was a full working day. They soon learnt but would not be told
[09:22] <eroomde> it's like new managers at consultancies thinking you can sell all 37.5 hours a week to customeras
[09:23] <chrisg7ogx> old grave yard in Gibraltar is full of those people but they didn't know much differant then
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[09:26] <chrisg7ogx> was Floyd's personal life a little sad?
[09:26] <eroomde> yes
[09:26] <eroomde> very
[09:26] <chrisg7ogx> alcohol?
[09:26] <eroomde> and he died at about 65, though he looked about 100
[09:26] <eroomde> yep
[09:27] <eroomde> it just caught up with him and he went very downhill
[09:28] <eroomde> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/17/article-0-0F34FA3C00000578-664_634x356.jpg
[09:28] <eroomde> he is 63 there
[09:28] <eroomde> scary
[09:28] <chrisg7ogx> I allways had the feeling that once in front of the TV and co0mmunicating he was in his element till they stopped rolling and the bottles were there..
[09:29] <eroomde> yes, i suspect you're exactly right
[09:29] <eroomde> there is a documentary where keith alan went to find him to see where he was now
[09:29] <chrisg7ogx> whios thaT BIRD ? DAUGHTER OR LEECH?
[09:29] <eroomde> it was quite interesting, if a bit sad
[09:30] <eroomde> daughter
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[09:57] <ibanezmatt13> Made my first repository https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB :)
[09:58] <ibanezmatt13> Not exactly near orbit like but the name's cool
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[10:32] <number10> eroomde: not too sure why you cant get the dvd of FoF but looks like all episodes here https://www.youtube.com/show/floydfrance
[10:32] <eroomde> fantastic
[10:32] <eroomde> wonderful
[10:32] <eroomde> thank you
[10:34] <number10> dont watch them all today :)
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[10:37] <eroomde> no risk!
[10:37] <eroomde> today is just busy enough that i feel justified in being lawy between the busy bits
[10:38] <eroomde> badminton match for 2 hours this afternoon, dinner in london
[10:38] <eroomde> i like these kids of days
[10:38] <eroomde> on which note, shopping time
[10:38] <eroomde> bbl
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[10:41] <RocketBoy> wow - tour of the east anglia coastline http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/elsworth/
[10:42] <fsphil> hah, one little detour into the sea
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[10:51] <number10> you could land one near to home
[10:51] <RocketBoy> yeah - not got closer than about 20 miles before
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[10:55] <PaulCDR> morning folks,
[10:57] <PaulCDR> has anyone ever seen this on an arduino, on the end of my main loop, i print the current value of a and i get a $ but when i print the value of a when the loop starts again, i get a *
[11:00] <fsphil> if the variable is inside the loop() function then the value will not (always) remain for the next time it is called
[11:02] <PaulCDR> even if its a global variable?
[11:02] <fsphil> if it's a global variable outside the function then the value should remain
[11:02] <PaulCDR> thats what i thought, i must be doing something stupid
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[11:02] <fsphil> hard to say without seeing the code
[11:05] <RocketBoy> sounds like something is splatting over memory
[11:05] <RocketBoy> put the code up and I'll take a look
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[11:06] <PaulCDR> its just a basic tracker
[11:06] <PaulCDR> http://pastebin.com/6aXVtuAA
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[11:06] <PaulCDR> i am printing to software serial at different points to see what going on
[11:07] <PaulCDR> so after the decoder reset, i print a and i get a $ as expected, but when the loop starts again, i get a *
[11:08] <fsphil> you have two variables named a
[11:08] <fsphil> int a = sprintf(buffer
[11:08] <PaulCDR> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[11:08] <fsphil> any reference to a after that will be to the int
[11:08] <PaulCDR> i have spent 2 days staring at this
[11:09] <PaulCDR> thank you
[11:09] <PaulCDR> of course
[11:09] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[11:26] <x-f> guys, have you ever flown a balloon with an integrated parachute? is there anything different, anything to be aware of when using it?
[11:31] <fsphil> with the chute inside the balloon?
[11:32] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[11:32] <x-f> yes
[11:33] <x-f> a Totex, presumably
[11:33] <RocketBoy> I've done it - but I would;t recommend it as a general technique
[11:34] <RocketBoy> I did it on a 100g latex flight - to keep it all inside the UK 2m exempt rules
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[11:36] <RocketBoy> you can see it at the bottom of this balloon in the photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/8332925671/in/photostream/
[11:36] <eroomde> you could deploy the chute too
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[11:37] <fsphil> I'd worry about an unclean burst keeping the chute from working
[11:37] <x-f> ah, you did it yourself, but what about the ones that are manufactured in such way?
[11:38] <RocketBoy> not seen em ?
[11:40] <x-f> ok, thanks
[11:40] <RocketBoy> Like fsphil says - I'd worry about a tangle with the remnants - I've seen too many bursts with substantial remails
[11:40] <RocketBoy> remains
[11:41] <x-f> this one we got was bought from Vaisala apparently, will see how it goes on Tuesday
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[11:58] <Willdude123> Hello
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[12:01] <Willdude123> Why are pcbs cheaper from china?
[12:01] <Laurenceb_> lol
[12:01] <Laurenceb_> lurn 2 economics
[12:02] <eroomde> Willdude123: it's mostly labour
[12:02] <eroomde> setup time on the machines etc
[12:02] <eroomde> rather than copper and fibreglass that you're paying for
[12:03] <bertrik> rules on pollution perhaps a bit more lax?
[12:03] <eroomde> and chinese people will at the moment work for nothing
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[12:04] <Laurenceb_> its because they are abused by the evil capitalist system
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> oh wait...
[12:05] <Willdude123> Communism can be evil too.
[12:06] <Willdude123> Anyway, let's not go there. This isn't a politics channel.
[12:07] <eroomde> indeed. but at least now you know why they're cheaper
[12:08] <PaulCDR> Where are you getting them from in china?
[12:09] <eroomde> they're cheaper?
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[12:13] <Laurenceb_> <Laurenceb_> <Willdude123> Why are pcbs cheaper from china?
[12:14] <Laurenceb_> <dongs> because they're shit
[12:14] <Laurenceb_> alternative and simpler explanation
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[12:25] <number10> if you want a variable in a function to retain its value declare it static
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[12:25] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon
[12:25] <eroomde> keith floyd in alsace happy moment
[12:25] <number10> oops I typed that ages ago and just now hit return - sorry
[12:25] <eroomde> he gets taken on a hot air balloon ride
[12:26] <number10> great - not seen that one yet eroomde
[12:26] <eroomde> but the balloon pilot crashes the balloon because he runs out of gas
[12:26] <eroomde> they crash on a road in a forest
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[12:26] <eroomde> but he crashed because he wanted to keep some gas back to vent over a bottle of champagne in order to cool it down
[12:26] <number10> :)
[12:26] <eroomde> which he then proceeded to do, having crash-landed the balloon
[12:28] <daveake> I like his style
[12:29] <mfa298> almost a proper hab landing apart from not being stuck at the top of a tree
[12:30] <gonzo_> or landing in the sea
[12:30] <daveake> probably ever started with bacon either
[12:30] <daveake> n
[12:31] <eroomde> i suspect they did start with bacon
[12:31] <eroomde> most things in this series involve starting off by frying some bacon and onions down in a little goose fat
[12:34] <gonzo_> and opening a bottle of wine
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[12:35] <LeoBodnar_> g'day
[12:36] <eroomde> gonzo_: well yes of course
[12:36] <eroomde> that's the best thing about cooking
[12:36] <eroomde> every recipe should need about half a bottle of wine
[12:36] <eroomde> so you can enjoy the other half and get a head start on everyone before they sit down
[12:41] <gonzo_> I did like floy's style.
[12:42] <gonzo_> (just put a casserole in the oven, and guess what I felt compelled to do... so just time to pour myself a glass
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[12:52] <fsphil> this is why I'd be a rubbish chef
[12:53] <eroomde> not alcoholic enough?
[12:57] <fsphil> sadly not
[12:57] <fsphil> that and my dislike of onions, fish and sprouts
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[12:58] <jcoxon> fsphil, hard work!
[12:59] <fsphil> I don't mind hard work :)
[12:59] <jcoxon> hehe
[12:59] <jcoxon> making progress with the helicopter
[12:59] <fsphil> hmm.. my laptop just told me I'm no longer online
[12:59] <G0RNU> any live launches going on today in the uk ??
[12:59] <fsphil> jcoxon: nice. what sort of lifting capacity does it have?
[13:00] <fsphil> don't believe so G0RNU
[13:00] <G0RNU> cheers pal
[13:00] <jcoxon> fsphil, its at the limits with the Ultrasonic sensor, 3 axis accelerometer and RFbee
[13:00] <fsphil> the predictions for me are getting better, I must ping DM
[13:00] <fsphil> not too much then
[13:00] <jcoxon> might have to relieve it of some of its casing
[13:01] <fsphil> ah yes
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[13:01] <fsphil> the copter I had I found the case was about 30% of the weight
[13:01] <jcoxon> i've been tidying it up a bit, adding sockets to do easy charging etc
[13:01] <fsphil> removing it and I was able to put on a little wireless camera
[13:02] <jcoxon> i'd like to add a IR distance sensor to the front eventually
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[13:03] <fsphil> would be a little bit lighter than the sonar
[13:04] <jcoxon> i went with sonar as i'm still using IR for controls occasionally
[13:04] <jcoxon> once charged i think we'll try the first autonomous flight
[13:04] <jcoxon> get it to throttle up for 5 seconds
[13:05] <fsphil> wear goggles :)
[13:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:06] <jcoxon> i've been attacked by the heli before
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[13:10] <cyclops> hi!!
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[13:20] <YL3GV> test
[13:20] <cyclops> hi
[13:20] <YL3GV> hi
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[13:22] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
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[13:37] <Laurenceb_> https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=52.923885,-1.485064&spn=0.006804,0.021136&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.923852,-1.484932&panoid=-swvMqqqnDR8Clfdwg2xVA&cbp=12,288.07,,0,-6.3
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.oldderbyphotos.co.uk/derby-friargate-129
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> ^tree growth :P
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[13:44] <jcoxon> now to tune this PID
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> need video
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[13:55] <jcoxon> if I've got a PID controller and the output range is between 1 and 16
[13:56] <jcoxon> and it just flicks between 1 and 16 rather than values in between which value in the PID needs to be changed?
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[13:56] <jcoxon> would it be hte Kp?
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[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I've wondered about the lack of open source fence I chronology tools
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> send to chronology
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> sigh
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> dendrochronilogy
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[14:06] <jcoxon> ooo that worked better
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[14:33] <Willdude123> Hi
[14:34] <Willdude123> trn are you the anti-MIT guy from the mosh chan?
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[14:38] <cyclops> hi
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[14:42] <WillTablet> Hi
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[14:43] <cyclops> ping Upu
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[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[14:45] <cyclops> hi
[14:46] <x-f> hi
[14:46] <cyclops> tnot much activity here these days
[14:48] <jcoxon> it comes in waves
[14:48] <jcoxon> and the weather is good in the UK currently
[14:48] <jcoxon> so i suspect its bbq time
[14:48] <cyclops> and its august
[14:48] <cyclops> so Holidays
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[14:49] <cyclops> here in spain
[14:49] <cyclops> BBQ since april-may :P
[14:50] <jcoxon> cyclops, yeah yeah, :-p
[14:50] <jcoxon> we have to enjoy the limited sunshine
[14:50] <fsphil> yea bbq here shortly :)
[14:51] <fsphil> have had rain/thunder for the past while, suddenly sunshine so taking advantage of it
[14:51] <cyclops> Yeah, here the weather is usually goo
[14:51] <cyclops> *good
[14:51] <cyclops> But now really hot
[14:51] <cyclops> 38-4'ºC
[14:51] <cyclops> *40
[14:52] <cyclops> BTW guys
[14:52] <cyclops> My parachute has the possibility to regulate the length of the cords that go to the payload atachment
[14:52] <cyclops> Should i leave those as long as possible?
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[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> ubuntu gets on my nerves
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> "extra data files for flashplugin-installer could not be downloaded"
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> that pops up like every 30 mins when I am offline
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> and reinstalling flash did not work
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> last year I had a solution that made it shut up at least
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> but I can't find it
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[14:59] <chrisstubbs> Yes nice and long, what kind of length were you going to use between the balloon and parachute?
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[15:00] <cyclops> i was thinking about 10m
[15:00] <cyclops> and parachute payload 5m
[15:01] <cyclops> and payload-camera 5m
[15:02] <cyclops> what do you think?
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[15:06] <Lunar_Lander> sounds reasonable
[15:06] <Lunar_Lander> why would you have the camera seperate from the main payload?
[15:07] <cyclops> Bucause of possible GPS interferences
[15:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah you want to fly a 808?
[15:07] <cyclops> Similar
[15:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[15:07] <cyclops> Its shielded with ali and 5m away
[15:07] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[15:07] <cyclops> Yeah, measured with the funcube and no more interferences
[15:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> today I had something strange
[15:09] <cyclops> whut?
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> I recently added an NTX2 to my small payload and got a strange shift of just 85 Hz
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> resistors were all correct
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> today one wire came off, I reinstalled it
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> and suddenly the shift is like 385 Hz
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[15:10] <cyclops> Lol, no idea
[15:10] <cyclops> Sounds grange that sudden chnage
[15:10] <cyclops> *strange
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[15:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:11] <cyclops> Thats why I just got the Tracker from Upu :P
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[15:14] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, high resistance dry joint?
[15:14] <chrisstubbs> cyclops, that should be okay
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> some people prefer to go for balloon--20m--chute--10m--payload
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> if you have the extra cord i would suggest doing the above
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> don't know
[15:15] <cyclops> i have 50m cord
[15:15] <cyclops> :P
[15:15] <cyclops> any particular reason for that?
[15:16] <chrisstubbs> decreases your chances of tangling up antennas with stray bits of balloon and parachute
[15:16] <chrisstubbs> which makes it difficult to track
[15:16] <WillTablet> Hi chrisstubbs
[15:16] <cyclops> hum then ill consider that
[15:16] <chrisstubbs> hi will
[15:16] <cyclops> and then the cords that atach the payload to the main one?
[15:16] <cyclops> I mean
[15:17] <cyclops> You have the cord comming from parachute
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> been beagle boning today?
[15:17] <cyclops> And my payload is a sphere
[15:17] <cyclops> so ill put 3 join points
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> okay
[15:17] <WillTablet> Nah
[15:17] <cyclops> Then from these points to the cord how long?
[15:17] <WillTablet> I'm on holiday
[15:17] <WillTablet> :-)
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> whatever length looks reasonable
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> 0.5m?
[15:18] <WillTablet> I've not been beagling or boning.
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> does the upuhabsheild have holes to thread the string through?
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> *habduino
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> lol
[15:18] <WillTablet> I just had a really cool project idea.
[15:18] <cyclops> it has some holes
[15:18] <chrisstubbs> good idea incase your payload happens to fall apart and the tracker comes out
[15:19] <cyclops> that shoudnt happen though
[15:19] <WillTablet> I could get the bbb to print out the latest xkcd comic every wednesday.
[15:19] <WillTablet> With a thermal printer.
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> Thats cool
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> beats my odeon idea
[15:19] <chrisstubbs> well, it could be multi function
[15:19] <WillTablet> Someone tell me why it won't work.
[15:19] <cyclops> And by the way from 3 cords to one, should I use some sort of support?
[15:20] <WillTablet> Are the adafruit printers any goos?
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> as long as you can get the jpeg/gif from the internet by some means, then into the printer. it sould work
[15:20] <WillTablet> Hmm
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> cyclops, if you have a camera you could use a fishing swivel to avoid spin, if not, knot it
[15:21] <WillTablet> Not sure I can afford a thermal printer, what with the need to buy antenna stuff and Calculus textbook(s)
[15:21] <WillTablet> Not to mention a dmm, and the saleae logic I just bought.
[15:22] <cyclops> chrisstubbs: ill one something like that for cammeras and knot for payload
[15:22] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[15:23] <WillTablet> But I'll keep the idea in mind.
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> your 808 camera will be in a seperate box, and being quite light and small i dont know if the swivel will actually help becuase it will get thrown around by the wind a lot
[15:23] <WillTablet> The idea of faking cinema tickets is actually quite a good idea.
[15:23] <chrisstubbs> for novelty purposes only
[15:23] <WillTablet> But it'd be easier to sneak in
[15:23] <cyclops> well 2 cameras, the camera payload weights 220g
[15:24] <chrisstubbs> I added a 30cm long fin to the back of my second payload to help stop the spinning
[15:24] <chrisstubbs> just made from lids of plastic boxes
[15:25] <cyclops> did it work?
[15:25] <chrisstubbs> I used a stills camera, but most of the photos came out great
[15:25] <chrisstubbs> used a swivel too
[15:26] <chrisstubbs> are you using the cord from rocketboys website?
[15:26] <cyclops> yes
[15:26] <cyclops> 1mm
[15:26] <chrisstubbs> thats good stuff
[15:26] <cyclops> 50m
[15:26] <cyclops> :P
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[15:28] <cyclops> and it seems ill be able to launch the 11th
[15:28] <chrisstubbs> Cool!
[15:29] <cyclops> Got permissions and wind seems to be calm
[15:29] <cyclops> tested the tracker and all seems ready
[15:29] <cyclops> Only batteries left to be soldered
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[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> what is bad though
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> the DS18B20 just gives -1000.00 all the time
[15:40] <Lunar_Lander> and the BMP085 is static at 12.8 °C and 99977 Pa
[15:40] <Lunar_Lander> connections seem to be OK however and I measured that there is power to the sensors
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[15:48] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon S_Mark
[15:48] <S_Mark> afternoon
[15:48] <chrisstubbs> how goes it?
[15:48] <S_Mark> finally getting close to having the new home office sorted out
[15:48] <S_Mark> lol seems to have been going on for ages
[15:49] <chrisstubbs> I was expecting you to say you had soldered up your new board and were ready to launch it ;)
[15:49] <S_Mark> that is next!
[15:49] <S_Mark> I might start in a bit
[15:50] <S_Mark> power first
[15:50] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[15:50] <S_Mark> hi Lunar_Lander
[15:50] <chrisstubbs> Hmmmm just had a thought
[15:50] <S_Mark> yes?
[15:51] <chrisstubbs> I could add a little snap-off bit to the bottom of my new PCB's with a TPS61201 breakout on it
[15:51] <chrisstubbs> two boards for the price of one
[15:51] <S_Mark> sounds good
[15:51] <S_Mark> oh yeah new boards...
[15:51] <S_Mark> got a pic?
[15:52] <chrisstubbs> Will have in a tick
[15:52] <S_Mark> cool
[15:53] <S_Mark> any new functionality on the new board?
[15:53] <chrisstubbs> New step up regulator
[15:54] <S_Mark> ah yeah
[15:54] <chrisstubbs> http://imgur.com/JpvpxOs
[15:54] Action: chrisstubbs swears at eagleup
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[15:56] <Tramvai> Hello
[15:57] <G0LFP-Steve> what frequency for Icarus please?
[15:58] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark, http://imgur.com/a/WpQBG
[15:58] <G0LFP-Steve> ignore that, didn't look at the date time, just thought it was still up!
[15:59] <chrisstubbs> about 75% the size of my last one
[15:59] <chrisstubbs> still not quite micro ;)
[15:59] <S_Mark> like the blue
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[15:59] <S_Mark> Looks good!
[15:59] <S_Mark> Is the top title a hint of something?
[16:00] <chrisstubbs> Yeah
[16:00] <chrisstubbs> if it all goes squat thought I can paint over that :P
[16:00] <S_Mark> haha
[16:00] <Tramvai> How would I be able to test my Arduino setup GPS tracking capabilities in a simple way?
[16:00] <S_Mark> good backup plan
[16:00] <chrisstubbs> Tramvai, go for a walk with the tracker :)
[16:01] <Tramvai> I mean software wise
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[16:01] <chrisstubbs> or you can feed it fake data
[16:01] <chrisstubbs> like crossing the meridian and altitudes
[16:01] <Tramvai> I'd like to have a live tracker, but I doubt I'll be able to use dl-fldigi for that.
[16:02] <chrisstubbs> there is a gps simulator linked here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[16:02] <chrisstubbs> oh you want to test your rx end?
[16:05] <Tramvai> Basically
[16:05] <Tramvai> Both, actually
[16:05] <chrisstubbs> There are no flights on right now, so you can test dl-fldigi
[16:06] <Tramvai> That's a bit too much effort, is it not?
[16:06] <Tramvai> I have to fill out forms etc
[16:06] <chrisstubbs> have you created a payload document?
[16:06] <chrisstubbs> its quite easy, just paste in a example string and give each field a name
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[16:07] <Tramvai> I haven't done anything yet
[16:07] <Tramvai> I haven't even compiled a code for my Arduino that incorporates all its functions
[16:08] <chrisstubbs> Ah right, what stage are you at currently?
[16:09] <Tramvai> Well, I set up my Arduino board and made sure all its parts functions (but I did it separately): GPS receiver, temp. sensor, NTX2
[16:10] <chrisstubbs> Okay, time to tie them all together then!
[16:10] <Tramvai> Exactly
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, new small tracker http://s.gullipics.com/image/l/g/u/5yv7ow-kth0qe-ljf/IMG0673.jpeg
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[16:11] <S_Mark> looks good Lunar_Lander
[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[16:11] <S_Mark> is that a new version of a similar one from before?
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[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea sort of
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> I call it Breezedrifter I, as the big trackers are now called Stormdrifter
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> originally it was built for a flight as a sub-payload in berlin
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> but we didn't get the electrometer experiment done in time
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> so I transformed it with the sensors to the left to be a standalone system
[16:15] <S_Mark> ah sounds good
[16:15] <S_Mark> so not flown yet then?
[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> exactly
[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> we will use it when we fly with the radio amateurs
[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> these will be privately funded flights
[16:16] <Lunar_Lander> the big tracker is for university flights
[16:17] <S_Mark> brb
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[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> well he will see Stormdrifter II when he is back
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[16:18] <Tramvai> chrisstubbs: Any tutorials on how to code all of these parts together?
[16:18] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[16:18] <chrisstubbs> I dont think there is a tutorial as such
[16:18] <Tramvai> I don't really want to reinvent the wheel
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> so you want to parse the data from your gps
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[16:19] <Tramvai> Well, not exactly that tutorial, but in general, parse the information into transmittable data
[16:19] <chrisstubbs> and store the bits we care about (like lat/lon/alt/sats)
[16:19] <Tramvai> Pretty much
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> translate it to a string habitat can parse: http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> then send it out to the NTX2
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> I use tinygps to read from the gps
[16:20] <chrisstubbs> then pretty much use the ntx2 code from the wiki to transmit it once i have reformatted it into a suitable string
[16:21] <kt5tk-m> Re-launched KT5TK-4 floater. 2 foils made of previous 3.
[16:22] <kt5tk-m> Still enough lift
[16:22] <Tramvai> Thanks, chris! :)
[16:23] <chrisstubbs> my code is at https://github.com/ooda55/NSE1 (however it is a bit of a mess) if you fancy a read
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> I would reccomend using hardware serial NOT software serial though
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> SS sucks
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[16:27] <LeoBodnar_> KT5TK: what frequency FM deviation are you aiming for APRS signal?
[16:28] <LeoBodnar_> Is it +-3kHz
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[16:30] <chrisstubbs> Tramvai, if you are after a starting point download tinygps and get their example code working
[16:30] <Tramvai> Well, I
[16:30] <Tramvai> am stuck there.
[16:30] <Tramvai> Their example code does not print properly.
[16:30] <cuddykid> afternoon all
[16:30] <chrisstubbs> hey cuddykid
[16:30] <cuddykid> hi chrisstubbs
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Tramvai, check the baudrates on your serial montior
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> make sure it matches the speak the tinygps code opens the port on
[16:31] <cuddykid> I was over in greenwich earlier
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> I saw your pic, looks nice!
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> that grass needs a bbq on it
[16:31] <cuddykid> yep! Or a HAB launch!
[16:32] <cuddykid> though there's a fairly constant stream of aircraft over head on approach into heathrow
[16:32] <cuddykid> guess DM wouldn't be too happy!
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> is he ever?
[16:33] <cuddykid> lol
[16:33] <cuddykid> I am completely out of touch now with all habbing activities
[16:33] <cuddykid> 6 weeks out of the loop
[16:33] <chrisstubbs> :(
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, I am happy though that SoftSerial + OpenLog seems to work :)
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> hi cuddykid
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:33] <cuddykid> Hi Lunar_Lander
[16:34] <cuddykid> I did see the prudential professional bike race earlier - came whizzing by where I'm staying
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> the chemical bike race?
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> with all the doping
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[16:36] <cuddykid> ha
[16:36] <cuddykid> perhaps that's why the whizzed by so fast..
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/health-beauty/dp/B006833Z1Y
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[16:37] <daveake> gives a new meaning to the phrase "changing gear"
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of bicycles - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWelo79POIs
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[16:39] <chrisstubbs> Laurenceb, fill it with helium
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[16:40] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Whats the difference between max-7c and max-6q ? Is one better than the other ?
[16:40] <cuddykid> daveake on form as always!
[16:41] <Upu> Well 7C is way better on power @ 3.3V
[16:41] <Upu> can do GLONASS
[16:41] <Upu> 10hz updates
[16:41] <Gadget-Mac> Upu: Ok, so probably good for new designs ?
[16:42] <Upu> the parts are interchangeable
[16:42] <Upu> so will work with either part
[16:42] <Gadget-Mac> Ok cool.
[16:42] <Gadget-Mac> Thanks for the clarification :)
[16:44] <craag> Upu: Any change on MAX7 stock?
[16:44] <Upu> negative just 6Q/6G for the moment :(
[16:44] <craag> Ok np.
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[16:54] <nigelvh> Anyone know the current story on KT5TK's foil?
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[17:06] <nigelvh> Ping kt5tk-m
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[17:10] <Survivor> Heya guys.. I am doing a theoritical project, and I wanted to know.. how do you guys.. change the altitude of your balloon?
[17:11] <Survivor> I mean.. suppose you want it to stay within a particular range of altitude.. how do you manage that?
[17:11] <nigelvh> By letting go of the string.
[17:11] <nigelvh> In summary, most of the flights are just a let it go and it will either pop, or float.
[17:11] <nigelvh> In theory, you can calculate the amount of lift you need to float at a given altitude, and fill the balloon accordinging.
[17:11] <Survivor> oh alright.. so you basically wait for it to reach the max height, and it pops, and parachutes down
[17:12] <nigelvh> That's a common one yes.
[17:12] <Survivor> makes sense
[17:12] <nigelvh> It's also common to fill just enough for lift, and hopefully the balloon won't pop right away and it will float for a while.
[17:12] <Survivor> I am doing a theoritical project, in which it needs to go to a particular height, and take pictures..
[17:13] <chrisg7ogx> what freq is habtrk on please?
[17:13] <nigelvh> I believe some people have played with putting a valve in the neck of the balloon to let gas out.
[17:14] <GMT> what's the story with the 'icarus' flight? is it still 'up', lost signal, landed?
[17:14] <Survivor> nigelvh : thanks
[17:15] <nigelvh> GMT, the icarus data appears to be somewhat out of date, but I don't know for sure.
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[17:20] <Upu> Icarus is someone playing back the wav file from the Wiki
[17:20] <GMT> okay ... and the HABTRK one ... is that 'live'?
[17:21] <Upu> someone testing I suspect
[17:22] <GMT> the HAM-1 flight from sussex should be sometime in the next week according to their NOTAM
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[17:33] Nick change: Qwerty -> Guest51305
[17:34] <Guest51305> anyone using arduino ntx2 and ublox setup, need advice on hoe to get gps to transmit
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[17:34] <cyclops> hi!
[17:34] <Guest51305> hi
[17:37] <Guest51305> cyclops are you using ublox and ntx2
[17:37] <cyclops> ublox and LMT2
[17:38] <mfa298> Guest51305: there's examples of how to do parts of what you need on the ukhas wiki
[17:38] <Guest51305> argh ok... thought it was ntx2. i cannot get the ntx2 to transmit reliably
[17:38] <Guest51305> yes i have gone through wiki
[17:38] <cyclops> well I got a habduino
[17:38] <cyclops> So i can't help you much
[17:39] <Guest51305> there are bits for gps and bits for ntx2 but nothing about putting them together
[17:39] <mfa298> when you say it's not working reliably is that a poor signal or not decoding characters properly?
[17:40] <mfa298> I think putting it together has been left as an exercise for the reader.
[17:40] <x-f> :)
[17:40] <mfa298> If you understand the two guides and how they're working it shouldn't be hard to add the bit of glue in the middle
[17:41] <Guest51305> it transmit a line of gps then 1 line of just crc then 1 line and 2 crc etc
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[17:41] <Guest51305> im going to have another go tonight
[17:42] <x-f> first get the correct output on the Serial monitor, then add radio stuff
[17:42] <x-f> will be easier and faster to test
[17:42] <Guest51305> yeah did that
[17:42] <x-f> and then it got all wrong when you started to transmit it over the radio?
[17:43] <mfa298> my standard recommendation is print out *loads* of debug info to the console/serial.
[17:43] <Guest51305> when transmitting gps via rtty should you transmit 1 char at a time or the whole gps string
[17:44] <mfa298> if you can't work out why it's going wrong you can also try posting your code on pastebin/github/pastie and get other to have a look as they might spot something wrong.
[17:44] <mfa298> pasting output of what's currently happening also helps
[17:44] <Guest51305> ok didnt realise that
[17:45] <Guest51305> well i will get kids to bed and give it another go
[17:45] <x-f> we're at your service 24/7 with short breaks :)
[17:46] <Guest51305> hopefully i will going to the conference and be able to pick some brains lol
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> Guest51305 dont forget to bring your brain picking tool!
[17:47] <chrisstubbs> (paper and pen)
[17:47] <Guest51305> oh yes
[17:48] <chrisstubbs> Right its steak o'clock. be back laters!
[17:48] Nick change: chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbsAFK
[17:48] Action: mfa298 suspects there might be a 1hour break whilst most of the channel finds out who the next Doctor is. Possibly followed by another 1 hour break whilst watching three grown men act like kids with a load of fast cars.
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[17:49] <chrisstubbsAFK> Is this a new episode of dr who, or just an announcement thing?
[17:49] <mfa298> announcment thingy I think
[17:49] <mfa298> actually that might only be a 30 minute break.
[17:50] Action: chrisstubbsAFK crosses fingers for more karen gillan
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[17:54] <Guest51305> are there many staying over at the conference
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[17:59] <Babs> ooo, they have nasa TV over in the states
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[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[18:11] <craag> ssh, channel is on mute for 30 mins
[18:11] <craag> (new doctor on bbc1)
[18:15] <Babs> Zoe Ball has had some work done
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[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[18:23] <Upu> hi Matt
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> yay lenny kravitz is the new doc!!!
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> Hi Upu, how's your payload coming along?
[18:24] <Upu> not great
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> how come?
[18:24] <Upu> doens't work :)
[18:24] <ibanezmatt13> that's not great :/
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> can we get lenny kravitz to help?
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:25] <Upu> spoilers Lunar_Lander people may not want to know
[18:25] <Babs> Hey Upu - quick query. Can I run hardware serial and software serial at different baud rates?
[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:25] <Upu> yes
[18:26] <Upu> but don't
[18:26] <Upu> use software serial
[18:26] <Upu> ever :)
[18:27] <Babs> If I need to use two serial ports then is my only option the arduino mega?
[18:27] <cyclops> Hey upu
[18:27] <Upu> hey cyclops
[18:27] <Upu> where did you get get Lenny kravitz from anyway Lunar_Lander ?
[18:27] <ibanezmatt13> Just wondering that myself :)
[18:27] <cyclops> Just packing everything, tomorrow I go near the launching spot
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah I was listening to "stillness of heart" just now :)
[18:28] <cyclops> BTW the Habduino with 2AA (Energizer) should be how many hours on?
[18:28] <Upu> about 24 I think I need to measure it properly
[18:29] <cyclops> perfect
[18:29] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, I was looking into creating Gerber files from schematics. Looks a bit confusing :/
[18:29] <cyclops> Cant wait only 7 days left to launch
[18:29] <Upu> nah ibanezmatt13 its very easy
[18:29] <Upu> but you aren't sending that off to be made :)
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I know, I've been messing about. Still can't do it :(
[18:30] <Upu> I'll take you through it at some point soon
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> I'm looking forward to it :)
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[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> Tested out my Granddad's 1953 router today. Seems to be very good and makes quite clean cuts. I'll be using it to make the box on Tuesday :)
[18:34] <ibanezmatt13> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9bh7iageheb6tz/photo%20%284%29.JPG [box measurement]
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[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I had a look at that Olimex programmer t
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> you linked me to*
[18:41] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> Only problem is, despite the product being good value, the shipping was twice its value
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> evening jcoxon
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[19:06] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[19:10] <jcoxon> hey Upu
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, did you see breezedrifter I already?
[19:10] <Upu> yes about four times now Lunar ?
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> just wasn't sure
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> like I am not sure why the radio has a better shift now
[19:12] <LeoBodnar_> kt5tk-m: ping
[19:13] <chrisstubbsAFK> Whats up with the habduino upu?
[19:14] <Upu> ready to go chrisstubbsAFK
[19:14] <Upu> will fly next weekend hopefully
[19:14] Nick change: chrisstubbsAFK -> chrisstubbs
[19:14] <chrisstubbs> Oh, what tracker isnt working then?
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> wb chrisstubbs
[19:15] <Upu> oh a domex one
[19:15] <Upu> DominoEx
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> Ah dear :(
[19:15] <chrisstubbs> Sent cheapo4 off to hackvana :)
[19:16] <Upu> good :)
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/f/f/9/5yv7ow-kth8ci-ook7/Bildschirmfotovom20130804211537.png have a look at this please
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> somehow I think, the leftmost pictures do not match
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. I don't think I can see from the top picture the component placement from the bottom one
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[19:17] <Upu> thats horrendous
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[19:19] <chrisstubbs> Lunar_Lander, happy overlays http://i.imgur.com/599kzeq.png
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> ^^ lol upu
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[19:19] <chrisstubbs> its pretty badly scaled
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:20] <chrisstubbs> maybe they made this in paint
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> so they suggest this layout
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> would be interesting to make this somehow in EAGLE
[19:21] <chrisstubbs> Im sure you could
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> wonder why they made these strange shapes
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[19:22] <WillTablet> Heyall
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[19:22] <nigelvh> They drew it by hand Lunar
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[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:22] <nigelvh> Back in the day people created circuit boards by drawing the patterns by hand.
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I saw that on the eevblog in an old multimeter
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> I suppose these blobs are connecting everything they contain
[19:24] <nigelvh> Yep
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> but seperated by the white borders
[19:24] <nigelvh> In the older days, it was cheaper/easier to remove the least copper possible, so they'd just cut out where the didn't want lines.
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> I have to look at it
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> as I think boosters just don't work on breadboards
[19:25] <nigelvh> You are working with RF when working with a booster, so it does add a level of complexity.
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> true
[19:27] <WillTablet> Do most people order pcbs from 3rd Parties or do people use their own equipment?
[19:27] <nigelvh> Most people order PCBs.
[19:28] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[19:28] <nigelvh> Some people (myself included) do have some limited equipment to make simple PCBs ourselves.
[19:28] <Upu> I tried it once
[19:28] <nigelvh> But I only do very simple PCBs myself.
[19:28] <Upu> my dad's garage is still stained
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhhhhhh
[19:29] <chrisstubbs> Self etching is good fun if you like watching paint dry
[19:29] <nigelvh> For example, these breakout boards for some uBlox's, I etched myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Nlm4uCvSU
[19:30] <nigelvh> Not really a terribly great view of them, but you get the idea.
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[19:32] <nigelvh> I use a laser printer, to print the design on a transparency, then use a UV light to transfer the design to a photosensitive copper clad board, then etch it.
[19:32] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/?p=1063
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[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, cool!
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[19:48] <WillTablet> Hi
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, would you say it would be difficult to make the suggestion from ON Semiconductor?
[19:49] <nigelvh> Etching that board wouldn't be terribly difficult, no.
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[19:50] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to think of a little project I can design a PCB for... hmm
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[19:51] <WillTablet> IR remote?
[19:51] <WillTablet> For your tv.
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:51] <WillTablet> That'd be a good idea.
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> what I also read, that one should solder the IC directly
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> no socket
[19:51] <ibanezmatt13> Not a bad idea at all actually
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[19:52] <fsphil> IR communication is quite neat
[19:52] <fsphil> you can even send rtty over an LED
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> would that be any use?
[19:53] <fsphil> not really :)
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> be cool though :)
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> well, not really
[19:53] <fsphil> I did rtty over string :p
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> actual string?
[19:54] <WillTablet> ibanzmatt13, is the thing in the bottom left of the image a pcb? https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9bh7iageheb6tz/photo%20%284%29.JPG
[19:54] <fsphil> yea
[19:54] <fsphil> had some spare nylon cord, thought I'd give it a try
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> certainly is WillTablet
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> not bad fsphil
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[19:54] <fsphil> was a very silly thing to do but I was bored at the time :)
[19:54] <fsphil> got 50 baud
[19:54] <fsphil> faster modes didn't work
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[19:55] <WillTablet> Nice. I thought the raspberry pi flight you were doing was with protoboard
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I was but...
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> It got lost in the post
[19:55] <ibanezmatt13> Long story
[19:56] <WillTablet> So you designed a pcb instead.
[19:56] <WillTablet> Parcelforce or something?
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> PCB isn't mine :/
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> It's pretty much what I did on protoboard but, nicer
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:57] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 who's is it?
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> Upu's
[19:57] <WillTablet> Ah cool
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> I have to say, it's a really neat little board for the Pi. There's one or two things I'd change if I knew how to use Eagle but yeah, really pleased with it
[19:59] <WillTablet> You look a bit creepy in that photo. Not as creepy as me here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsLPB4VYAA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> WillTablet: Bit more closer up, you can see what's on the board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2kx3vrvrvoczhu/photo%20%281%29.JPG
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> Yea, my Dad caught me in deep tape measuring concentration
[20:00] <WillTablet> I realized after filming that I have an incredibly annoying voice.
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> lol
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[20:01] <fsphil> we all do
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[20:01] <WillTablet> People still call me physics kid
[20:01] <fsphil> few people like the sound of their own voice. and those who do need slapped
[20:01] <WillTablet> Which really annoys me.
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> agreed
[20:01] <fsphil> or a job in government
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody like looking at repositories. I'm really pleased I got one with some actual value now :)
[20:02] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB
[20:02] <WillTablet> Because that video was largely incorrect.
[20:03] <WillTablet> I think
[20:04] <ibanezmatt13> I guess it's a good thing to come up with a name for your HAB flight that is totally obscure?
[20:04] <WillTablet> HOBNOBBOB
[20:04] <fsphil> there's a chance there might be an aurora visible from the uk tonight
[20:04] <WillTablet> That's a good one.
[20:04] <WillTablet> Ooh I love harry potter
[20:05] <WillTablet> They're my favourite kind of wizard.
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> Not very, HAB-like.
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: an aurora?
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[20:05] <fsphil> possibly
[20:05] <ibanezmatt13> at the moment all I see is... cloud
[20:06] <fsphil> it's oddly clear here
[20:06] <fsphil> normally astronomical events cause cloud
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> how come?
[20:06] <WillTablet> It stands for High OrBit (NOt really) Balloon by Bob
[20:06] <ibanezmatt13> nice WillTablet, the name we got is ok: NORB
[20:07] <WillTablet> I like HOBNOBBOB
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[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> I don't think it has been used yet, but I'm not sure
[20:07] <ibanezmatt13> HABNOBB
[20:07] <Upu> what does NORB stand for ?
[20:07] <WillTablet> Bonjour Upu
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> OK I am in eagle now, found the MC34063 in sparkfun's library
[20:07] <Upu> Bonsoir Willdude123
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> now I got to select the R, C and L which I got from the physical component size, right?
[20:08] <ibanezmatt13> Well Upu, long story but basically, near orbit research balloon. I'll explain more next time I see you :) There's quite a cool attachment to that name
[20:08] <fsphil> near orbit? in the same way I'm nearly rich? :)
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Yep :)
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> We just had to use the word NORB, so near was all I could think of
[20:09] <WillTablet> It isn't really near orbit, surely?
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> nowhere near
[20:09] <WillTablet> Haha
[20:09] <WillTablet> How's life or lack thereof Upu?
[20:09] <ibanezmatt13> Suppose we could call it NNORB
[20:10] <Upu> its fine I went to church today
[20:10] <WillTablet> Woah
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> wb S_Mark
[20:10] <Upu> I know
[20:10] <WillTablet> Why?
[20:10] <S_Mark> hello again
[20:10] <Upu> friends kids Christening
[20:10] <Upu> hi S_Mark
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> S_Mark: I like your PCB
[20:10] <ibanezmatt13> randomly
[20:10] <WillTablet> How was it.
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[20:10] <WillTablet> *?
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[20:10] <S_Mark> Ah thanks ibanezmatt13
[20:11] <S_Mark> Almost ready to solder now, I have a new office lol
[20:11] <Upu> got the PCB back S_Mark ?
[20:11] <Upu> og tes
[20:11] <Upu> red you tart
[20:11] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:11] <S_Mark> yeah had it a few weeks but hadn't had the space to get it sorted what with the house move
[20:11] <WillTablet> Upu language
[20:11] <Upu> looks great S_Mark
[20:11] <S_Mark> but finaly there now lol
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, you left seconds before I could show you Stormdrifter II, so this comes now http://s.gullipics.com/image/r/w/m/5yv7ow-kthbw7-ubg4/IMG0666.jpeg
[20:11] <S_Mark> thanks!
[20:11] <Upu> word of advice
[20:11] <S_Mark> yes please do upu lol
[20:11] <Upu> when soldering the SL1252R
[20:12] <Upu> make sure the GND tabs align exactly with the PCB
[20:12] <Upu> I found it doesn't take much to totally detune the antenna
[20:12] <S_Mark> ok no probs, will defo take care over that and the gps
[20:13] <S_Mark> thanks
[20:13] <Upu> GPS is generally fine
[20:13] <S_Mark> ah cool ok
[20:13] <Upu> any problems let me know
[20:13] <S_Mark> will do thanks very much
[20:13] <S_Mark> looking forward to getting it together!
[20:14] <S_Mark> whats this Lunar_Lander
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> I so badly want a PCB with the word NORB on it :)
[20:14] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13 you might want to consider replacing the print statements with writing to a log file.
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> S_Mark, flight computer for uni flights
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> I could I suppose. I'm not too bothered about those anyway tbh. I'll probably just take them out
[20:14] <S_Mark> ahh yeah
[20:15] <WillTablet> Nobody can read them in Near Obit.
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, one more thing
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> I'd like to be able to find some messages from this channel a few days back, is that possible?
[20:16] <Upu> yes
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> I just see that the 0.47 Ohm resistors I got are wire wound
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> is that bad?
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> How Upu?
[20:17] <Upu> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> Ah thanks
[20:17] <Upu> can go back to 2006 if you want
[20:17] <WillTablet> How's habduino going?
[20:17] <Upu> ready to roll just working on documentation and website next
[20:17] <WillTablet> Yeah 2006 back when Upu was only 60 :-)
[20:17] <Upu> could be worse will dude at least I existed
[20:18] <WillTablet> I did too.
[20:18] <Upu> barely :)
[20:18] <WillTablet> I barely exist now.
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[20:18] <WillTablet> I am half dead
[20:18] <WillTablet> :-)
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[20:19] <Upu> ping G7PMO_Kev
[20:19] <WillTablet> I think people should call their habs the word they say the most in here.
[20:19] <ibanezmatt13> damn can't find it
[20:19] <Upu> payload looking good G7PMO_Kev
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> mine WillTablet would be called: ah ok
[20:20] <WillTablet> Oh wait. 'Sh*t' is an inappropriate name for a hab.
[20:20] <WillTablet> :-)
[20:20] <Upu> Willdude123 yours would be called simply '?'
[20:20] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[20:21] <WillTablet> #!&% off zeusbot
[20:21] <WillTablet> Upu I'm dumb get over it.
[20:21] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: that conversation we had with survivor about hot air balloons the other night, I'd like to find it :)
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[20:25] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: few nights ago that: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20130801.html
[20:25] <WillTablet> Not my fault I'm below average intelligence
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> haha, yes that fsphil :') Thanks
[20:26] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[20:26] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[20:26] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil: when dave said "didn't survive long", that was just brilliant
[20:27] <fsphil> hah
[20:27] <fsphil> he ended up deflated
[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[20:27] <fsphil> silly computers. 3 / 2 == 1 .. -3 / 2 == -2
[20:28] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/6151809
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[20:30] <WillTablet> The chairman of nadars said I was in to 'Radio Beacons on Hot Air Balloons'
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[20:30] <WillTablet> That was cringy.
[20:31] <fsphil> lovely
[20:31] <ibanezmatt13> Ah fsphil, it was YOU that started it: https://gist.github.com/ibanezmatt13/5683781
[20:32] <WillTablet> So
[20:32] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[20:32] <WillTablet> I need something cool to read or talk about.
[20:32] <WillTablet> Is MIT administration corrupt?
[20:32] <WillTablet> :-)
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[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> night all :)
[20:36] <fsphil> nite matt
[20:36] <Upu> nn
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[20:39] <Steve_2E0VET> any idea what invalid conversion from char to const char means
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, nigelvh what do you think? http://s.gullipics.com/image/u/a/l/5yv7ow-kthc7j-u2rz/FirstAttemptStepup.png
[20:39] <nigelvh> I think that snapple is tasty.
[20:40] <nigelvh> I also think you don't have that board routed yet. Finish that up and I'll look at that.
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[20:44] <Steve_2E0VET> is there any info anywhere in relation to serial.read and the ublox?
[20:44] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: it's probably related to a function you're using and how you're passing data to/from it. Although from just an error message it's hard to say much more
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[20:46] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, what im actually trying to do is work how how the data comes from the ublox is it one char at a time or a string at a time
[20:47] <nigelvh> Steve, ALL serial connection is a character at a time.
[20:47] <nigelvh> Doesn't matter if it's a uBlox or a computer.
[20:48] <mfa298> in terms of what your software sees it's probably a set of characters at a time depending on how the hardware is working.
[20:48] <mfa298> on the wire it's 1 bit at a time (serial interface)
[20:48] <nigelvh> If you've got an arduino, all strings are just arrays of characters.
[20:51] <Steve_2E0VET> thanks, so how do I know when the ublox has sent a full string of $ messages, would it be when the 2nd $ arrives?
[20:52] <fsphil> it sends a newline character at the end of each line
[20:52] <Steve_2E0VET> what is the newline char?
[20:52] <mfa298> \n
[20:52] <fsphil> \n
[20:53] <Steve_2E0VET> but thats 2 chars
[20:53] <fsphil> only on windows
[20:53] <Steve_2E0VET> ok i need to look how to code it
[20:54] <mfa298> it's treated specially by C as a newline (\r being carraige return, \t is tab and there are a few others)
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[20:55] <Steve_2E0VET> dont suppose anyone has the code to save me a massive learning code to transmit the gps via rtty
[20:56] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: Code is there on people's githubs. But really doing it yourself is 100% worth the effort.
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> current status
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/x/n/q/5yv7ow-kthd0z-bhc/Bildschirmfotovom20130804225647.png
[20:57] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, yeah i appriciate that but sometimes you need to see it done to learn it
[20:57] <craag> Also not everyone's code is perfect! So you can't be sure it won't have problems.
[20:57] <mfa298> it's also useful to understand what the code is doing for when it doesn't work
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> don't know why he insists on that one connection he marks yellow
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> lunar
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> click see
[20:57] <chrisstubbs> and click the yellow airwire
[20:58] <chrisstubbs> it will hilight the connection on your schematic
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[20:58] <nigelvh> Yes, all the airwires (the thin yellow ones) are connections on your schematic that haven't been routed yet.
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[20:59] <craag> Steve_2E0VET: There's plenty of example code on the wiki. Feel free to take a look at my github, CRAAG1 for delay-based, CRAAG2 for interrupt.
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[20:59] <Tramvai> I'm having an issue with tracking using the RTLSDR dongle
[20:59] <Steve_2E0VET> craag, github is something else i need to get used to
[21:00] <Tramvai> Doing the basic RTTY, I ran into the same issue I did last time: I can't get the two lines
[21:00] <fsphil> are you getting one line?
[21:00] <Tramvai> I'm just getting one line on the very left side on the waterfall
[21:00] <Tramvai> On fl-dldigi
[21:00] <fsphil> need to retune the radio then
[21:00] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: if coding like this is new to you start with simple and build up. My first bit of gps code just printed out each character as it was read. My next step was just to print a line stating it saw a new sentence when it saw a newline character
[21:01] <Upu> can we see a screen shot Tramvai and how are you transmitting i.e what radio ?
[21:01] <Tramvai> SDR# shows it just fine
[21:01] <Upu> screen shot
[21:01] <Tramvai> Of which?
[21:01] <Tramvai> Sec
[21:02] <Tramvai> http://i.imgur.com/NAFoCfg.png
[21:02] <Upu> whats the bandwidth set too on SDR ?
[21:02] <Upu> screen shot the SDR s/w
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> hmmm http://s.gullipics.com/image/p/m/d/5yv7ow-kthdbd-1nmf/Bildschirmfotovom20130804230323.png
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> you could probably do that single layer Lunar_Lander
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> use the bottom layer only if you want to self etch it
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> hmmm would have to look how to move the traces around
[21:06] <chrisstubbs> yeah
[21:07] <chrisstubbs> if there is just one you cant route you can always use a jumper wire
[21:07] <nigelvh> Rotate the bottom left capacitor (330uF) 90 degrees counterclockwise and the traces will be easier.
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> yay did it!
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> thanks nigelvh
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> actually it was possible without rotating as well
[21:08] <nigelvh> Yes, but cleaner if you do.
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
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[21:12] <Tramvai> Okay, I messed around with some stuff and managed to create something like this now: http://i.imgur.com/VhTspdV.jpg
[21:12] <Tramvai> x.x
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[21:13] <Tramvai> Meh, might just go to sleep and look at this issue with a fresh mind in the morning
[21:13] <WillTablet> Lunar_Lander in Turkey all of the tv channels in the hotel are german. You'd love it here, they have rtl and stuff, and only 2 english channels.
[21:13] <Upu> Tramvai
[21:13] <Upu> scroll up on the left side of SDR#
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[21:13] <Upu> and make bandwidth 3000
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[21:14] <WillTablet> Ze hotel is full of ze Germans yah.
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> damn#
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> now I added connectors and it is screwed up again
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[21:14] <Upu> Will meet Kevin, Kevin is German
[21:15] <Tramvai> Oh wow
[21:15] <WillTablet> I want a break from ze germans
[21:15] <Tramvai> It worked! Thanks Upu
[21:15] Nick change: KipK_aw -> Kipkool
[21:15] <Upu> nps Tramvai
[21:15] <Tramvai> Will there always be two different waterfall lines though?
[21:16] <Tramvai> When transmitting a bit larger code, it only leaves me with one
[21:16] <Tramvai> Is it a fault in the code?
[21:16] <WillTablet> I am playing ze water polo wiz zhem every day zhey are very violent yah.
[21:17] <nigelvh> Will, knock it off. You're being rather rude. Those individuals may be violent.
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/2/s/4/5yv7ow-ktheyr-norm/Bildschirmfotovom20130804231656.png
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, yea
[21:18] <Tramvai> Meh, nevermind.
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> btw the schematic
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/p/m/1/5yv7ow-kthe01-jsw6/Bildschirmfotovom20130804231825.png
[21:19] <WillTablet> nigelvh Zhey are zo, I vas referring to ze germans who I play ze water polo wiz, yah?
[21:19] <WillTablet> I have nozing against ze germans as a whole.
[21:20] <nigelvh> No, you're referring to some people you play water polo with, not all germans are as such, and it's rude to be acting as you are.
[21:21] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, took your advise, wrote a bit of code, modded it and still got the same results lol
[21:21] <WillTablet> Yah. I am also saying that the people I play water polo with happen to be German and some of them are violent.
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[21:26] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: if you're really stuck with it post code and errors on something like pastie/pastebin/github and others can take a look
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[21:28] <Steve_2E0VET> its embarrasing... ive im only playing with this char inByte = Serial.read();
[21:28] <Steve_2E0VET> mySerial.write(inByte);
[21:28] <Steve_2E0VET> Serial.println();
[21:29] <Steve_2E0VET> was expecting one char of gps string to be printed on each line lol
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[21:30] <trn> Willdude123: I'm not exactly anti-MIT, anti-MIT administration policies.
[21:30] <trn> Willdude123: Also I respect the views of everyone involved and don't want to make this a big political issue really. :p
[21:31] <Upu> Willdude123 no more. End of.
[21:31] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: is it running or are you getting errors compiling it ?
[21:32] <Steve_2E0VET> yeah its running but still prints the whole text on one line
[21:33] <mfa298> with the lines of code you put above that sounds like it might be right.
[21:33] <mfa298> look at where you send the data and the newline (assuming that's what println() does)
[21:34] <Upu> Tramvai RTTY should always have 2 lines on the water fall
[21:34] <Tramvai> Yep
[21:34] <Upu> what radio is transmitting the signal ?
[21:34] <Tramvai> Your NTX2. :)
[21:34] <Tramvai> But it's an error in the code
[21:36] <Upu> whats the fault ?
[21:37] <Steve_2E0VET> if this is the way to send a letter A mySerial.write("A"); how do i send a CR would it be mySerial.write('/n');
[21:37] <Tramvai> I've copy pasted bits together
[21:37] <Tramvai> And did a sloppy job
[21:37] <Upu> mySerial.println("A/n");
[21:37] <Upu> ah ok Tramvai
[21:37] <Upu> err
[21:37] <Upu> no need for the /n
[21:37] <Upu> sorry
[21:38] <mfa298> and \n rather than /n
[21:38] <Steve_2E0VET> upu I was looking for the way to send a newline command
[21:38] <Upu> yeah just ignore me
[21:38] <Upu> I'm like John Snow
[21:39] <mfa298> generally in C '' is used for a character and "" for a string.
[21:39] <nigelvh> Steve, you had the right idea, but it's a '\n' not a '/n'
[21:39] <nigelvh> Also, Serial.println() sends one automatically.
[21:39] <nigelvh> You're asking it to send two.
[21:39] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: one issue in what you had above is that mySerial probably isn't the same as Serial
[21:40] <Steve_2E0VET> yes, i am using code that uses mySerial, so decided to keep to it but try and make different outputs if that makes ense
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[21:43] <Steve_2E0VET> thanks all for that my problem was using /n not \n
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> some rework http://s.gullipics.com/image/j/8/2/5yv7ow-kthfbd-3uaz/Bildschirmfotovom20130804234653.png
[21:47] <fsphil> ah ha
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[21:48] <trn> Quick questions while I'm here - is there legal issues to having a cellular connection to the internet for telemetry on a civilian HA baloon?
[21:49] <fsphil> depends on local laws. but ultimatly the problem won't be legal, just technical. GSM won't work above a few km
[21:50] <trn> Expected, but seems like a good way to send back location data and such.
[21:50] <Upu> and then they don't always work,
[21:50] <trn> (Once a connection is established again)
[21:50] <Upu> not really
[21:50] <Upu> they don't work above 18km
[21:50] <Upu> the GPS
[21:50] <Upu> they cut out well below that generally
[21:50] <fsphil> if you land somewhere without any coverage
[21:50] <Upu> and they don't always get a signal when they land
[21:50] <fsphil> then you get nothing :)
[21:50] <Upu> They seem to have a sub 50% success rate
[21:51] <Upu> as Daveke says its the quickest way to loose your payload
[21:51] <trn> Upu: Mainly for logging the flight. I am a ham and have no issues with radio, but I was going to include the innards of a old unlocked 3GS I have.
[21:51] <Upu> as a backup absolutely fine
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[21:51] <fsphil> best way of transmitting data will still be the radio
[21:52] <fsphil> as you won't have any altitude limits
[21:52] <fsphil> (not talking about GPS here -- that's another matter)
[21:52] <trn> fsphil: Wondering about the legal aspects of things, don't really know where to look.
[21:53] <trn> A friend of mine has devised a lightweight platform that is gyro stabalized that he says can be used to launch a small solid-fuel rocket from once the baloon reaches a certain altitude.
[21:54] <trn> I was thinking that must be illegal somehow.
[21:54] <fsphil> a rockoon
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> where are you?
[21:54] <Upu> you can't do that in the UK
[21:54] <trn> Yep, that is where he got the idea.
[21:54] <trn> In Florida.
[21:54] <fsphil> and yea you'll definitly need to consult with the local flight regulator :)
[21:54] <craag> Yeah, I've looked into that and the UK really won't let you do it :(
[21:54] <Upu> I doubt you can do it in Florida either :)
[21:54] <fsphil> the FAA in your case
[21:55] <craag> Oh usa, far more permissive usually.
[21:55] <nigelvh> You have to apply for a special permit
[21:55] <nigelvh> I'm in the US, and we've done it, but it took a LOT of talking, and we had to have the balloon tethered to the ground.
[21:55] <nigelvh> Also being in the middle of the desert with nothing to hit.
[21:56] <Upu> just aim for Alabama
[21:56] <craag> Oh ouch, that takes the whole 'high altitude' bit out of it.
[21:56] <fsphil> haha
[21:56] <nigelvh> Yeah, we let ours up about 1000 feet and fired the rocket.
[21:56] <trn> craag: Yeah. :(
[21:56] <fsphil> land of crazy radio stations
[21:56] <nigelvh> Still pretty awesome.
[21:57] <craag> I take it that you couldn't just launch it over international waters.
[21:57] <nigelvh> International waters is a pain to get to with X number of students and equipment.
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[21:57] <craag> How far out does it start?
[21:57] <trn> I could easily launch in international waters here.
[21:58] <Upu> http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/csdl/mbound.htm
[21:58] <trn> Usually 12 miles.
[21:58] <trn> But state law stops 3 miles or and you are only subject to federal laws.
[21:58] <trek747> question, has anyone here made a liquid propellant rocket before?
[21:58] <trn> (IIRC)
[21:59] <Upu> actually not that far off the Florida keys
[21:59] <trn> Upu: A landing on land would be much cheaper.
[21:59] <Upu> not much land on the keys :)
[21:59] <Upu> you can walk from one side to the other in 1 min :)
[21:59] <trn> Fuel costs are prohibitive trying to locate a floating payload a few feet square in the ocean.
[22:00] <Upu> trek747 possibly, I know one person who isn't on here at the moment is developing one
[22:00] <craag> Yeah I was thinking for non-recovery.
[22:00] <trn> I used to have a 22 foot aquasport fishing boat and sold it because I simply could not afford to use it.
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[22:01] <trn> Water landing also complicates the payload.
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[22:01] <trek747> thanks upu. maybe they'll show up later tonight
[22:01] <Upu> he's UK based
[22:01] <Upu> might be late
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[22:01] <Upu> trn nothing wrong with water landing :)
[22:01] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbykWjsQrI
[22:02] <Upu> (unintentional)
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[22:02] <trn> I wonder if I keep the rocket to use standard unlicensed components like multistage solid fuel hobbyist charges if it would be easier to get approved or not need approval at all.
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[22:03] <trn> I'll need to look into it much more.
[22:03] <trek747> anyone here have an interest in radioisotope thermal rockets? i am interested in beryllium-7 or nitrogen-13
[22:03] <craag> The worrying bit of it for me was parachute deployment
[22:03] <Upu> probably a little out of this channels remit trek747 :)
[22:03] Nick change: Kipkool -> KipK_aw
[22:04] <trek747> hmm
[22:04] <trek747> sory then
[22:04] <Upu> balloons
[22:04] <Upu> gliders
[22:04] <Upu> rockoons possibly
[22:04] <trn> trek747: I used to be big into model rocketry but not for the last 15 years or so.
[22:04] <trek747> ok i'll stop asking questions then
[22:04] <Upu> you're welcome to ask
[22:04] <craag> The Copenhagan rocket didn't deploy it's main chute recently, hit the water rather fast..
[22:04] <Upu> just not sure anyone has experience in rockets using radioactive power sources
[22:05] <Upu> RTG's in space probes possibly
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[22:05] <trek747> nitrogen 13 has a half life of 10 minutes or so, and thus could be used as a booster rocket in theory
[22:05] <trek747> to fly to ... high altitude
[22:05] <Upu> looks like cyclops recruited an RX station
[22:06] <Upu> EB7HQE
[22:06] <trn> I was considering the rockoon using a cardboard tube about 4 feet long and using a small charge similar to Estes hobbyist solid fuel engine to deploy the parachute and also have two very long vinyl streamers.
[22:06] <craag> The worrying bit is that falling through airspace corridors with potentially very high velocity!
[22:06] <Upu> http://www.theregister.co.uk/Wrap/lohan/
[22:06] <Upu> Vulture 2 is estimated to exceed the speed of sound*
[22:06] <trn> Inside the rocket payload in shrinkwrap plastic would be iPhone 3GS innards and a counterweight with styrofoam to help it float in case of landing it water.
[22:06] <Upu> *and probably disintegrate 0.1 seconds later
[22:07] <trek747> upu: what, gliding back from a balloon?
[22:07] <Upu> yep trek747
[22:07] <Upu> maybe not back as that comes under UAV regs
[22:07] <trn> The chance of the rocket leaving the state lines would be rather high.
[22:07] <trek747> paper airplanes = UAV ?
[22:07] <trn> Especially launched at high altitude.
[22:07] <trn> Not trying to achieve orbit here or anything tho :)
[22:08] <Upu> no anything that controls its direction autonomously out of range of an operation probably = UAV
[22:08] <Upu> s/operation/operator
[22:08] <trn> Do they consider a rocket to control its direction if it can't gimble?
[22:09] <Upu> no but rockets generally go in one direction
[22:09] <Upu> up
[22:09] <Upu> however if the for example glides back down in a controlled manner to a landing site predetermined I would say that becomes a UAV
[22:09] <Upu> say it was a rocket plane for example
[22:09] <craag> Although making sure of that in high altitude is fun :)
[22:09] <craag> (going up)
[22:10] <trek747> has anyone got any ideas to make a space program pay for itself, short of tourism?
[22:10] <Upu> whereas most rockets or burst balloon decent under parachute at the vagaries of the wind
[22:10] <trek747> oh, launch customers' satellites. hmm/
[22:11] <trn> Upu: The baloon would use radio and the rocket would have radio beacon as well as cellular because it might end up very far away from the launch location.
[22:11] <Upu> btw nigelvh I bought a pack of cheap batteries from Tescos (local super market) to test capacity :)
[22:11] <Upu> yup trn
[22:12] <trn> And because of wind and atmospherics I simply cannot calculate exactly where it would go especially being the platform would be untested.
[22:12] <nigelvh> I do find that different brands can vary quite a bit Upu.
[22:12] <Upu> well
[22:12] <Upu> trn http://predict.habhub.org/
[22:16] <Upu> right late here night all
[22:16] <trn> Upu: Great for the baloon, not good for a rocket launched at high altitude from the baloon :)
[22:16] <trn> gnite
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[22:17] <craag> trn: You can use to model the descent of the rocket by parachute.
[22:18] <trn> assuming it launches straight up :b
[22:18] <craag> As for the ascent, that's going to depend completely on the rocket and it's aerodynamics
[22:18] <craag> or even vacuum-dynamics
[22:20] <trek747> do any of you have experience with homemade vacuum chambers?
[22:20] <trn> Also I'm assuming if the rocket achieves great altitude the electronics might perish from condensation if they freeze, which seems likely.
[22:20] <trn> I'm not the rocket guy, but I have most of what I need for a baloon project but a friend wants to try his rocket stuff from it.
[22:21] <trn> I think it is a bad idea legally but don't otherwise oppose it.
[22:21] <craag> It sounds like great fun, hence why I'd looked into it.
[22:21] <craag> Not being a rocket guy myself either
[22:22] <craag> But I used to have a model rocket as a kid, and just wondered what height I could get launching it from a platform at 25km up.
[22:22] <trn> craag: Essentially this would be a larger version of that.
[22:23] <trn> Having to launch the rocket at an angle is going to be necessary to not hit the baloon or the remains of the burst baloon.
[22:23] <trn> balloon even.
[22:23] <craag> So I looked into how to do it, and the two main challenges were how to do it legally (my solution was fly the balloon off the coast, launch over the sea and don't recover)
[22:23] <craag> And how to keep the rocket stable in it's short flight
[22:24] <craag> Which the best solution seemed to be to spin it somehow
[22:24] <trn> craag: Off the coast means I won't recover any video or likely any telemetry at all.
[22:24] <craag> Yeah I was going to get all telemetry over fast 434MHz RTTY
[22:25] <trn> I also don't want to put my amateur radio license at risk.
[22:25] <craag> Use license-free 434MHz as we do in the UK
[22:25] <craag> I have an amateur radio license, but we can't use it airborne in the uk
[22:26] <craag> So we use the same band as wireless car keys, which are permitted airborne!
[22:26] <trn> It is allowed here thankfully.
[22:27] <trn> http://www.arhab.org/ here in the USA.
[22:27] <craag> I had a few ideas that I wrote down here: https://www.thecraag.com/Ballocket
[22:27] <craag> Yeah a lot of people in other countries use APRS.
[22:28] <trn> craag: And you weren't thinking of a pad.
[22:29] <trn> We are, and that means as you determined as well I that I have no idea about the direction it might take.
[22:29] <craag> Yeah I was looking at using the off-the-shelf estes rockets with the rail system
[22:30] <trn> I am counting on establishing a cellular connection and getting 3G sometime during descent and praying it can upload a good amount of data before landing in case it hits water or parachute fails.
[22:30] <craag> Getting GSM connection is usually hard enough
[22:31] <craag> I don't think anyone's managed to get 3G connection on descent.
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[22:32] <craag> You might want to look at using an APRS module to send 1200 baud data on a non-aprs frequency that you can then receive.
[22:32] <craag> Relies on you being within line-of-sight with a receiver though.
[22:33] <trn> craag: We were going to use 6 38mm Aerotech rockets.
[22:33] <craag> wow ok
[22:33] <craag> Powerful stuff
[22:34] <craag> I was going for the smallest I could put a GPS tracker in.
[22:34] <trn> So I doubt line or sight would be possible.
[22:34] <trn> *of
[22:34] <craag> How are you planning to keep the rocket stable in powered flight?
[22:35] <trn> craag: Simple spin.
[22:35] <craag> Ok cool, I was thinking about exhaust deflection?
[22:36] <trn> craag: Achieving orbit would likely end with us in gitmo.
[22:36] <trn> :)
[22:36] <craag> You won'
[22:37] <craag> t
[22:37] <trn> just a joke :)
[22:37] <craag> yeah
[22:37] <trn> But knowing the landing point would be impossible because a small difference in altitude of the baloon is a huge variable.
[22:37] <craag> yep
[22:38] <craag> Welcome to the world of 'HAB Chasing' :)
[22:38] <craag> You can get a rough idea
[22:38] <trn> It would be area of many hundreds of miles. :B
[22:39] <craag> Shouldn't be that big
[22:39] <trn> Also if they shut down Boston because of comedy central mooninite signs, imagine a bunch of circuitry falling from the sky.
[22:39] <trn> There is a lot of paranoia in the USA now.
[22:40] <craag> We launch in the UK which is only just over 100 miles wide in some places!
[22:40] <craag> And can generally predict landing spot within a few miles with the habhub tool.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Several people have almost caught payloads.
[22:40] <trn> craag: Rocket will launch from the balloon at about a 35 degree upward angle if all works right.
[22:40] <craag> Yeah, I saw the craziness around the weather balloon in Norfolk VA
[22:41] <craag> got the bomb squad in with their robot before someone realised it was a weather balloon
[22:42] <craag> Ok, I was planning a small balloon and long payload cord, so very little chance of hitting the balloon if I point in straight up
[22:43] <trn> craag: Small aerotech powered rockets fly ~280mph and can go higher than 2000 feet from ground launches using single engines.
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[22:44] <craag> SpeedEvil: Yep, I was about 100m from the LOHAN one when it landed in front of us :)
[22:44] <craag> trn: Cool!
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[22:45] <trn> I imagine a launch from 25km would be officially ridiculous.
[22:45] <craag> At altitude you have virtually 0 air resistance, but still have to pay back the gravitational energy.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Getting to 100km altitude with a rocket from a HAB isn't really hard
[22:45] <craag> There's a link to a calculator on my page.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> GEtting to orbit is another kettle of hypergolics entirely.
[22:46] <craag> SpeedEvil: That's gonna have to be a pretty big rocket though, so getting it lifted by a HAB is another matter!
[22:47] <craag> (Or an amateur one at least_
[22:47] <craag> )
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> It's all about the mass ratio
[22:48] <trn> I didn't do the rocket math, but my friend who does the hobby rocket stuff thinks the rocket might hit 115km altitude.
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[22:48] <craag> Really?
[22:48] <trn> And it would need to be launched using multiple balloons, so I'm not looking forward to the cost of gas.
[22:48] <craag> So.. how are you going to track it :P
[22:48] <trn> craag: I personally don't believe it.
[22:49] <trn> craag: radio beacon and with cellular backup.
[22:49] <trn> software I write on iphone 3gs board.
[22:49] <craag> I would judge breaking 50km as major amateur milestone.
[22:49] <trn> but I think the battery will freeze and condensation will destroy the electronics on descent.
[22:49] <craag> But with what GPS?
[22:50] <craag> Most GPSes don't work above 18km
[22:50] <craag> The ublox GPSes that we use work up to 50km.
[22:50] <trn> GPS, and it would only start giving data below 13km yes.
[22:50] <craag> So how do you know how high it got without a decent IMU?
[22:51] <trn> craag: data logging onboard.
[22:51] <craag> yes... but what's it logging? GPS is going to lose fix above 18km on an iphone I'd guess.
[22:51] <trn> to SD, and if it achieves a connection to the internet, try to upload the stored data.
[22:52] <craag> So you'd just get 'no fix', 'no fix', 'no fix' for the entire flight surely?
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[22:52] <trn> separate altimeter
[22:53] <craag> Oh ok.. air pressure based?
[22:54] <trn> that was the plan.
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[22:54] <craag> I'm not sure that'll work either, what altitude is it rated to?
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> Altimeters that work at teh pressures and temperatures involved can be hard to find
[22:54] <trn> barometric pressure based on the balloon.
[22:54] <craag> so what's on the rocket?
[22:55] <craag> (which is what you're wanting to know the altitude of surely?)
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[22:55] <trn> was talking about a radar altimeter but I think it would be too heavy and dangerous
[22:56] <Steve_2E0VET> in the GPS NEMA string is there any CR or LF
[22:56] <craag> erm yes that would be v heavy I think.
[22:57] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: I think there should be a newline at the end of each sentence
[22:58] <craag> The difficult bit is finding a GPS that'll do rapid vertical velocity
[22:58] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, i was hoping not as i am using the newline "\n" in a test, but all the lines seem to be mixed up
[22:58] <craag> The ublox's cop out at 100m/s
[22:58] <trn> craag: I was reading it was velocity OR height.
[22:58] <craag> Depends on the GPS
[22:59] <craag> ubloxes work to 50km, which is far more than most others.
[22:59] <trn> I'm the radio and software guy.
[22:59] <mfa298> Steve_2E0VET: the code I've been writing (c++ on a pi with usb gps) uses the \n to detect end of sentence
[22:59] <craag> But the datasheet states they will consider a fix of more than 100m/s vertical velocity invalid.
[23:00] <Steve_2E0VET> mfa298, ok thanks there must be something else i am missing
[23:00] <craag> You might find a GPS that does better than that, but most tend to have low altitude limits.
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[23:01] <craag> Anyway trn, I'm just trying to pass on some of the thinking I've done, and I'm very interested to hear how you get on!
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[23:02] <craag> I'm still building the micro-tracker for mine as I'll use it for balloons for the moment, so may try it out if I find a legal way in the future.
[23:02] <trn> craag: It will likely be a long time before I can afford to do the project.
[23:02] <craag> Time for bed though, good night, and hope to catch you on here again soon!
[23:02] <trn> craag: But I like to think about it. :)
[23:02] <trn> Yes sir, gnite.
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 5 2013