highaltitude.log.20130731

[00:02] <arko> laters!
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[07:11] <Willdude123> Hi
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[07:23] <ibanezmatt13> Good morning
[07:24] <x-f> good morning
[07:24] <cde> good morning
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[07:30] <ibanezmatt13> I've been reading the payload antenna guide on the Wiki. For the radials, I can't quite tell what length the radials need to be and how much insulation to take off them
[07:31] <daveake> They're not critical. I tend to make them 164mm to match the transmitting element
[07:31] <gonzo_> same length as the main radiating element
[07:31] <Darkside> radials should be 1/4 wavelength long or greater
[07:31] <ibanezmatt13> Do you not need to take insulation off the radials?
[07:31] <gonzo_> but really are not critical
[07:31] <daveake> Insulating against what?
[07:32] <ibanezmatt13> on the wiki guide, he uses single core wires
[07:32] <daveake> It can be anything
[07:32] <gonzo_> three replies, who won that game of snap?
[07:32] <daveake> I've used single core, multicore, bacofoil
[07:32] <ibanezmatt13> So the insulation on these wires does not have to be removed
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[07:33] <daveake> the insulation does nothing
[07:33] <daveake> Assuming you don't land on an electric fence
[07:33] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, thanks :)
[07:34] Nick change: chrisss -> chrisstubbsW
[07:34] <ibanezmatt13> Another thing, does the antenna have to be in the centre of the box?
[07:34] <daveake> It needs to be in the centre of the radials
[07:35] <ibanezmatt13> But can I have the main element not in the centre? It's a pain trying to get everything lined up inside so that the coax goes through the centre
[07:35] <daveake> You can offset the whole lot from the box if you need to, but generally it's best in the middle (so they don't stick out so much, possibly snagging on the parachute cord during intitial descent
[07:35] <daveake> A small offset won't be noticeable
[07:36] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'll try and keep it centred but I may need to make a slight offset. Should be fine
[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad wants me to run the entire payload this weekend for as long as possible. He doesn't want to use the Lithiums for the test and only for the flight. Reckon if we use rechargables it'll be a good enough reflection on how it's actually going to perform?
[07:41] <Randomskk> not really
[07:41] <Randomskk> but it will give a lower bound
[07:41] <Randomskk> that is to say, the lithiums will do better
[07:41] <Randomskk> so if it lasts long enough on rechargables, you're sorted for the real thing
[07:41] <daveake> Yeah you'll bnbe testing everything aside from how long it lasts on Lithiums
[07:42] <ibanezmatt13> How about the coldness up there? Testing down here might not be a good enough reflection
[07:44] <daveake> You have a camera in there?
[07:44] <ibanezmatt13> Pi Cam
[07:44] <Randomskk> should keep it toasty
[07:45] <daveake> Video or stills?
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> I'm making cutouts in the foam to leave pretty much no room. The foam shouldn't melt because the A doesn't get too hot, nor does the switching regulator I have
[07:45] <ibanezmatt13> video daveake
[07:46] <daveake> I've flown a Pi and cam, doing stills, with minimal insulation. It was fine. Yours should get fairly warm as the cam uses quite a bit in video mode
[07:47] <daveake> Cam was in the nose of this - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/P1080050-1024x682.jpg
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> We're trying to save as much weight as possible so I think the lack of insulation we have at the moment is enough.Will take a look
[07:47] <daveake> And Pi in this - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/P1080059-1024x682.jpg
[07:47] <daveake> No foam insulation. No problems.
[07:47] <ibanezmatt13> Haha, nice design :)
[07:48] <daveake> not mine :p
[07:48] <ibanezmatt13> Still, pretty cool
[07:48] <daveake> I did a floater with the Pi and 10mm insulation, and that was fine too.
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> you reckon if I aim for 5.5m/s with a Hwoyee it won't float?
[07:49] <UpuWork> how did that even fit in there ?
[07:49] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 If you achieve 5.5 it won't :)
[07:49] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[07:49] <daveake> 5+ is fine
[07:50] <daveake> UpuWork No idea :)
[07:50] <ibanezmatt13> Off to work now, have a good day :)
[07:50] <daveake> It was like it was planned or something
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[07:52] <UpuWork> off to work ?
[07:52] <UpuWork> wow
[07:52] <daveake> They grow up quick these days
[07:52] <x-f> kids grow up fast
[07:53] <x-f> :|
[07:53] <daveake> :)
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[08:00] <LeoBodnar> DOn't piss them off. We need them to pay our pensions.
[08:01] <LeoBodnar> Morning btw XD
[08:01] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: yo
[08:01] <Darkside> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1428.jpg
[08:01] <Darkside> what the hell is that?
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[08:03] <LeoBodnar> It's an HF transmitter with Domino mode :) Just needs a MAX6 wired up to it to become a tracker. MAX6 is larger than the PCB.
[08:03] <UpuWork> front door key and a USB stick duh
[08:03] <Darkside> hf transmitter eh?
[08:03] <Darkside> how are you doing the HF?
[08:04] <LeoBodnar> With a synthesiser IC feeding LPF directly. Enough drive for 10-20mW
[08:04] <Darkside> hrm
[08:04] <Darkside> DDS IC?
[08:05] <Darkside> so the big chip on that board is the DDS, and the QFN is the PIC?
[08:05] <LeoBodnar> let me see if I can get a better picture
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[08:20] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1431.jpg http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1432.jpg
[08:22] <Darkside> hrm
[08:22] <Darkside> so what are the chips?
[08:23] <Darkside> i see a SC-70, a TSSOP and some QFN
[08:24] <LeoBodnar> CDCE913 PIC12F1501 ADP2138
[08:24] <Darkside> ahhhhhhh
[08:24] <Darkside> programmable clock generator :D
[08:24] <Darkside> neat
[08:25] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, good enough for the job
[08:26] <Darkside> nic
[08:26] <Darkside> oh man, the QFN is the PIC
[08:26] <Darkside> the big gigantic chip is the clock generator
[08:26] <Darkside> haha
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[08:27] <Darkside> so you're using one og th outputs to clock the PIC?
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, I like them QFN 8 pin PICs
[08:28] <Darkside> heh
[08:28] <Darkside> nice board tho
[08:28] <Darkside> sucks you can't fly it in the UK
[08:28] <LeoBodnar> Should have but not on this revision, running off internal oscillator on PIC
[08:28] <Darkside> well, except for on 13.56MHz
[08:28] <LeoBodnar> Yes, we can
[08:28] <Darkside> and 27MHz
[08:28] <LeoBodnar> 13.560MHz
[08:28] <Darkside> yeah
[08:28] <Darkside> RFID band
[08:29] <Darkside> want to ship one here so I can fly one on 30m :-)
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> Hehe, let me try this on 21m first
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[08:29] <LeoBodnar> Spin your own, you know all the parts
[08:29] <Darkside> hrm
[08:29] <Darkside> the problem with 20mW on HF
[08:30] <Darkside> is the noise floor is way higher than on 70cm
[08:30] <Darkside> way way WAY higher
[08:31] <HixWork> You're just showing off now LeoBodnar ;p
[08:31] <LeoBodnar> We have no listeners in central / southern / eastern europe so UHF is as good as none
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[08:33] <LeoBodnar> XD
[08:40] <HixWork> what does the board do LeoBodnar googled parts and churned up a clock and a dc-dc convertor
[08:45] <Darkside> HF transmitter
[08:48] <LeoBodnar> It's a DF tracker for another project repurposed as HF transmitter for a HAB project
[08:50] <LeoBodnar> UpuWork: AMY doesn't have powersave mode it seems
[08:51] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: 80m Foxor beacon?
[08:51] <UpuWork> sure LeoBodnar ?
[08:54] <LeoBodnar> Falconry tracker
[08:55] <Darkside> ahh cool
[08:55] <Darkside> i thought thy were normally on 151MHz?
[08:55] <Darkside> or somewhere around there
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> From DS: Power Save Mode and Maximum Performance Mode are not supported by AMY-6M.
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> 173MHz
[08:56] <Darkside> aha
[08:56] <Darkside> its 151MHZ here
[08:57] <LeoBodnar> I am programming them to whatever people ask for. Usually from 145MHz to 173MHz
[09:01] <HixWork> So these are tracked using DF techniques and triangulation to ascertain the position?
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> UpuWork: so AMY needs either switching off via hardware or software. And for hot start it will need 32k xtal
[09:03] <UpuWork> ok
[09:03] <LeoBodnar> Yes HixWork, usually no need for triangulation, you just keep going towards them. If it's stationary you can triangulate if you have time
[09:04] <Darkside> yeah
[09:04] <Darkside> the fastest DFers just drive in the direction of the signal
[09:04] <Darkside> they dont bother to get cross bearings
[09:05] <LeoBodnar> Hacking through bushes XD
[09:05] <Darkside> its faster to just head in teh direction of the signal, then start paying mroe attention when the bearings start to shift away from directly ahead
[09:07] <mfa298> cross bearings might make sense if you're tracking something that only transmits something like 30s every 15 minutes (although I think most radio orieteering things like that have transmissions much more regularly than that)
[09:07] <Darkside> yah
[09:08] <Darkside> for the big comps when you're in cars, you're usualyl chasing someone in a car, talking on the radio sporadically
[09:08] <Darkside> when i was a fox, i made sure my transmissions occured at random intervals
[09:09] <mfa298> and no doubt tried to make the transmissions when there were useful large objects for the signal to bounce off as well
[09:09] <Darkside> nah, didnt bother with that
[09:09] <Darkside> i just had 2 antennas, spaced about 50m apart
[09:09] <Darkside> down a road
[09:09] <Darkside> and i was hidden off the road, my car camouflages
[09:09] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2013-06-10_June_Long_Weekend/content/DSC_8155_large.html
[09:10] <Darkside> i'd switch btween the antennas as the foxhunters came past
[09:11] <Darkside> was great fun playing with them
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[09:35] <LeoBodnar> remotely controlled phase array antenna to fool DFers?
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[10:14] Nick change: MichaelC|Sleep -> MichaelC
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[11:03] <Willdude123> Hello
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[11:05] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[11:07] <fsphil> afternoon
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[12:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/windycitysdr/distribute-and-manufacture-software-defined-radio/comments
[12:05] <Laurenceb> epic lulz
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[12:16] <chrisstubbs> Upu, I was reading https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/z5b7YAPSohs/0BiPfUFCYWkJ earlier.. Was that 13 hours from one AA with or without ublox PSM?
[12:19] <HixWork> seems to be a bit of a knob Laurenceb
[12:20] Action: mfa298 wonders how long until Godwins law is applied to that kickstarter
[12:21] <HixWork> heh
[12:21] <UpuWork> Without
[12:22] <chrisstubbs> Ah okay that makes more sense
[12:22] <HixWork> conundrum: Cree SMD LED needs to be mounted to PCB. PCB low thermal conductivity. How to get the heat out of the LED?
[12:23] <fsphil> are there not metal heatsinks for the LED?
[12:23] <daveake> Copper has high thermal conductivity
[12:24] <daveake> Doesn't their datasheet have recommendations?
[12:24] <HixWork> nope fsphil it's just a module
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[12:24] <HixWork> there is nothing on the datashett daveake
[12:24] <daveake> ok
[12:24] <Laurenceb> mfa298: i thought of godwin when i saw Christina Simikoski
[12:25] <cyclops> Yay permission granted for launch! Notam issued :D
[12:25] <HixWork> cool cyclops
[12:25] <cyclops> HixWork: So happy now
[12:25] <chrisstubbs> HixWork: does it not have a thermal pad on the underside?
[12:26] <HixWork> chrisstubbs, yes, but I can't access web to imgur it
[12:26] <fsphil> nice one cyclops !
[12:26] <chrisstubbs> I cant get on imgur anyway :P
[12:26] <chrisstubbs> part no/datasheet?
[12:26] <HixWork> http://s20.postimg.org/lcvrhcgy5/IS_DCB_Solder1.jpg
[12:26] <cyclops> and getting some followers on twitter, and interest to track
[12:27] <chrisstubbs> Blocked XD
[12:27] <cyclops> Everithing is goin better than expcted
[12:27] <HixWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oeia3y49co548m/Cree_LED_XLampXML.pdf
[12:29] <chrisstubbs> You could stick a pad underneath it with some vias going through to a heatsink pad on the back
[12:29] <chrisstubbs> Then solder from reverse upu style
[12:30] <HixWork> s'what I was thinking, though not sure how transmissive it would really be
[12:32] <Laurenceb> anyone readinf fldigi mailing list?
[12:32] <Laurenceb> interesting stuff from John Phelps
[12:35] <Laurenceb> "I have tested on-air patches for fldigi that reliably transmitted data using two 8PSK carriers at 500 Baud, for a datarate (raw and net) of 3Kbps"
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[12:39] <cyclops> Yay tracker already in spain, coming home
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[12:47] <fsphil> ah didn't realise they had a list Laurenceb
[12:47] <Laurenceb> yeah its pretty busy
[12:48] <Laurenceb> averages several a day
[12:49] <HixWork> the solution as it appears, is to switch to bridgelux, who document things properly
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[12:53] <LeoBodnar> Was that using IR oven HixWork ?
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[12:54] <LeoBodnar> Why so little paste?
[12:54] <cyclops> lunch!
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[12:54] <HixWork> demo from a site LeoBodnar
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> I can't grasp a proble :/
[12:55] <HixWork> looking at a switch to bridgelux as they have a whole specsheet for thermal management
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> Are you trying hand-soldering?
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[12:56] <HixWork> not got one yet, it's all being specced atm
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[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> ping daveake
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> ping UpuWork
[14:13] Nick change: x-f -> empty-place
[14:13] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, I need to cut one of the track on the Pi N Chips. I've got through the green bit and I'm now into a bit which is just shiny copper. I'm not sure how much further to go through as I don't want to damage the tracks on the back
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[14:16] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, how thivk is the board?
[14:16] <ibanezmatt13> It's 2 layer, not sure of the thickness
[14:18] <ibanezmatt13> There's a track on the top of the board that needs to be cut. Not sure how deep to go into it to cut it though
[14:20] <ibanezmatt13> I might leave it until I next see Upu HixWork, no more of these if I break it
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[14:21] <UpuWork> which track ibanezmatt13 ?
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13> The one from the DS18B20 to GPIO 1
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13> The Pi only allows one wire protocol on GPIO 4
[14:21] <UpuWork> hang on
[14:22] <UpuWork> ok
[14:22] <UpuWork> thats easy just cut the track near GPIO1
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> it's cutting that's the issue
[14:23] <UpuWork> then carefully scratch the solder mask off part of the remaining track
[14:23] <UpuWork> tin it
[14:23] <UpuWork> and then solder a wire from there to GPIO4
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure how deep to go
[14:23] <UpuWork> you need to cut the copper track
[14:24] <UpuWork> if you get fibre glass dust coming out thats far enough
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> I got through the green bit and hit shiny copper
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> Then I decided not to proceed
[14:24] <UpuWork> keep going if you want to cut it
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> Shall I go until it matches the colour of the walls of the track
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13> Well, the lack of copper
[14:25] <UpuWork> its not thick
[14:25] <UpuWork> cut two small lines and the track in between should peel off under the knife
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> cut down to which level?
[14:25] <ibanezmatt13> through the shiny copper to?
[14:26] <UpuWork> sec
[14:27] <HixWork> ibanezmatt13, you'll see fibreglass under the track when you have gone through the copper
[14:27] <HixWork> white dust
[14:27] <ibanezmatt13> After the shiny bit?
[14:28] <HixWork> http://goo.gl/jqHcbx like that
[14:29] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, so I've not gone to deep. Phew
[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, I'm gonna go give it another go. I'll be back soon to report success or failure. Thanks! :)
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[14:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mossmann/hackrf-an-open-source-sdr-platform
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[14:50] <UpuWork> I think someone should tell him its not an exact science
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[15:05] <HixWork> server dead at work. Again... I'm getting sent home :D
[15:07] <HixWork> two bits or perspex on standoffs don't really qualify as an "Enclosure" do they?
[15:08] <HixWork> Hmm Uist, I'd love to go there to retrieve it
[15:08] <HixWork> oops that was for #sealevel
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[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, I've made a little progress I think
[15:13] <daveake> Which finger did you chop the end off of?
[15:13] <UpuWork> I hope so in 45 mins
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[15:13] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I've also soldered the other wire on too
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> Is the green mask on top an insulator?
[15:14] <UpuWork> yes
[15:14] <UpuWork> take a pic
[15:14] <UpuWork> lets see it
[15:14] <daveake> It's also there to stop the copper oxidising
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, give us a few mins]
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, daveake: The wire... https://www.dropbox.com/s/muf021muperlcx0/IMG_20130731_161541.jpg
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> The track https://www.dropbox.com/s/la1ajyu7ifxhgyv/IMG_20130731_161613.jpg
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> Not great quality
[15:22] <UpuWork> should work
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> Hope so :/
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[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I really want to start making PCBs like the Pi n Chips. They're so cool compared to stripboard
[15:24] <UpuWork> its not that difficult or expensive when are you back ?
[15:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'm back, been home since Sunday :)
[15:24] <UpuWork> ah ok
[15:25] <UpuWork> I'll do a Eagle training session with you this weekend
[15:25] <ibanezmatt13> That would be brilliant! :) How?
[15:26] <UpuWork> internets
[15:26] <ibanezmatt13> Brilliant! Thanks. In the evening?
[15:26] <UpuWork> when I get a mo
[15:27] <UpuWork> priority is getting payload ready for next weekend
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> What sotr of payload?
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> sort8
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> damn keyboard
[15:28] <UpuWork> habduino + domex payload
[15:28] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/a/jhonU
[15:29] <ibanezmatt13> very good. Never heard of a domex
[15:29] <UpuWork> DominoEX
[15:29] <UpuWork> its like RTTY
[15:29] <UpuWork> but 18 tones rather than 2
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> sounds complicated
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> That board which you have there is exactly what I'd like to make, but not with the dome
[15:30] <ibanezmatt13> domex*
[15:31] <UpuWork> actually the code is really simple
[15:32] <UpuWork> and its more tolerant of noise and weak signal than RTTY
[15:32] <UpuWork> but you need a very stable radio
[15:32] <ibanezmatt13> Sounds interesting. I'll stick with RTTY for now
[15:33] <ibanezmatt13> I've been looking at the payload antenna guide on the Wiki. The radials part is a bit different to what we did. And seen as I'm making another, I'll probably follow that twisting idea. It looks a bit more secure
[15:33] <UpuWork> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW7xDs_FKpA
[15:33] <UpuWork> sounds well cool
[15:33] <UpuWork> yeah it is a bit more secure
[15:34] <ibanezmatt13> that does sound cool :)
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[17:03] <ibanezmatt13> Evening
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[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> We've decided that our box is going to consist of only two layers of foam as we're going to carve recesses in the foam to hold the components. However, I'm struggling to work out how I should fit the payload antenna do the bottom of it.
[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> The bottom is only 2 layers thick
[17:07] <nigelvh> What antenna are you trying to use?
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> The antenna is pretty much identical to the payload antenna guide on the wiki
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> 1/4 wave
[17:09] <nigelvh> I suppose then I don't understand what your concern is.
[17:10] <Upu> tape it to the bottom
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[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> Can the straws be exposed?
[17:10] <nigelvh> Yep
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[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> That's good
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> So I can just hot glue it to the bottom and secure with tape?
[17:10] <nigelvh> Sounds reasonable.
[17:11] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 the box tape glue straws are effectively transparent for the radio
[17:11] <Upu> stick it to the bottom and point the antenna down and don't worry about it
[17:11] <nigelvh> Exactly
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, thank you
[17:13] <nigelvh> How's things over there Upu? I haven't been too frequently active round here of late.
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[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:32] <craag> Evening Lunar_Lander
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[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> craag, got a new task that one of my group members is involved with
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> making a stepup from 3.3V to 9V using the 34063 IC
[17:56] <nigelvh> What is the 9V powering?
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[17:59] <Chetic> what's the name of this connector? http://www.hometheater.com/images/archivesart/1105hook.1.jpg
[17:59] <Chetic> it looks like SMA but larger
[17:59] <Upu> f-type
[17:59] <craag> F-type
[17:59] <craag> arggh beaten ;)
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[17:59] <Upu> lol
[17:59] <Upu> hey nigelvh
[17:59] <Upu> back soon just cooking
[18:00] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Cool, putting it on a PCB?
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[18:02] <nigelvh> Cool Upu. Have fun with that.
[18:03] <Chetic> f-type.. wtf is that in Swedish
[18:03] <Chetic> thanks Upu and craag btw ;)
[18:03] <Chetic> I'm just trying to find something that lets me move the couch closer to the wall :p
[18:04] <Chetic> http://www.showmecables.com/product/F-Type-Male-Right-Angle-to-F-Type-Female-Adapter.aspx
[18:04] Action: Chetic loves adapters
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[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> craag, sorry was at dinner
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> now phone
[18:39] <craag> np, dinner time for me :)
[18:45] Nick change: MichaelC -> MichaelC|Away
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> back
[19:06] <fsphil> to the future
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, sorry
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> I was thinking about making one of these photodiode radiation sensors
[19:07] <KT5TK_QRL> Lunar_Lander: Ever thought about those RGB photodiode sensors?
[19:08] <KT5TK_QRL> This would give you more spectral information
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[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> for cosmic rays?
[19:08] <KT5TK_QRL> Well cosmic rays at what wavelength?
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[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> well that would be extremely small
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> less than picometers
[19:13] <KT5TK_QRL> just doing some readup.
[19:14] <KT5TK_QRL> Would you need a scintillator?
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[19:15] <bertrik> I read about cosmic ray detectors that use two detectors separated by a metal plate (IIRC). A cosmic ray would be powerful enough to cross the barrier between the two detectors. A detection in both detector at the same time would indicate an actual cosmic ray.
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah coincidence measurements
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[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> also works with two or three geiger counters which only count if all are triggered almost simultaneously
[19:28] <nigelvh> Yeah.
[19:29] <nigelvh> Or you can use a PMT (Photomultiplier Tube)
[19:29] <nigelvh> I worked on a project here at the university of washington that did research on high energy radiation interacting with the upper atmosphere above antarctica.
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[19:30] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu-
[19:30] <ikarus> nigelvh: optical in sky ?
[19:30] <nigelvh> Helped to assemble PMTs and the associated circuits before they were shipped down to Antarctica to be flown on balloons.
[19:30] <ikarus> nigelvh: ah yes, that neat project
[19:31] <ibanezmatt13> Upu-: Tried the board, temp sensor not working. I hooked up a DS18B20 that I had in a breadboard and it worked; must be the board :(
[19:31] <nigelvh> Yes. The idea was that the particles would interact and create a shower of xrays. Our PMTs would detect the Xrays and characterize the power.
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[19:31] <nigelvh> energy I should say.
[19:31] <ikarus> nigelvh: hrm, I thought the hope was to catch a visible spectrum flash
[19:33] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: temp sensor not working
[19:33] <nigelvh> Perhaps you're thinking of a different project, but the PMT tubes would be CONSTANTLY bombarded with visible light. We actually put the tubes in aluminum cylinders so that no light would scintillate them, but xrays would.
[19:35] <ikarus> nigelvh: ah, diff project, it was on antartica due to flying them in the antartic nights with just starlight producing noise
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh, cool
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> PMTs for scintillators?
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:36] <nigelvh> Well, there was a crystal in front of the PMT that was the *REAL* scintillator
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> that's what I meant
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[19:36] <nigelvh> Yeah, it was a large sodium crystal.
[19:36] <ikarus> I still like all the projects like icecube and the one in the med
[19:37] <ikarus> using a great whopping block of natural water as a interaction medium
[19:37] <nigelvh> Yep
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:39] <ikarus> which reminds me of something, a while back people here reported weird radio frequency drifting for HA balloons, anyone captured that in raw form, preferably with 9-dof sensor + time data ?
[19:39] <ikarus> because I want to see if there is some correlations
[19:39] <mclane> hi ll
[19:40] <ibanezmatt13> Upu
[19:42] <craag> ikarus: Normally frequency drift is caused by tx temperature change.
[19:42] <ikarus> craag: the reported one was a rather fast periodic one
[19:42] <mclane> problem with spacenear.us in chromium?
[19:42] <ikarus> craag: not something I'd expect from tx temp drift
[19:42] <craag> ikarus: Was it on descent?
[19:42] <ikarus> craag: level
[19:43] <craag> Hmm, occasionally you get fast drifts when cold air finds it's way in through a hole. This could be periodic if the paylaod was spinning?
[19:44] <ikarus> craag: yup, it could be
[19:44] Nick change: MichaelC|Away -> MichaelC
[19:44] <ikarus> meh, I wonder how much a well insulated OCXO would cost in terms of battery life
[19:44] <craag> Not many people fly 9-dof sensors, so we can only speculate.
[19:45] <craag> The best way is the Leo way I think. GPS-lock it :)
[19:45] <craag> That worked very very well!
[19:46] <ikarus> craag: yup, that could also work, PLL GPS-locked
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> Upu-: https://www.dropbox.com/s/umkk0gzvrgllady/photo%20%281%29.JPG
[19:48] <ikarus> craag: but well, a GPS receiver with better then 1-pps output would be nice for that and those are a tad expensive
[19:48] <craag> ikarus: MAX-6/7 does a programmable frequency reference
[19:49] <nigelvh> Yep
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[19:49] <ikarus> craag: well, that would do the trick
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> craag, well no plans yet :P
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> probably would be better to make a PCB for the photodiode detector
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> have to look into it
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[20:00] <ibanezmatt13> Upu-
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[20:13] <Upu> looks good ibanezmatt13
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Major failure Upu
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> Temp sensor not working
[20:13] <ibanezmatt13> :(
[20:13] <Upu> I wouldn't worry about it
[20:13] <Upu> its cold
[20:13] <Upu> up there
[20:13] <Upu> move along
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> good point :)
[20:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'll think of it as another addition to my code which could have messed it up anyway
[20:15] <ibanezmatt13> Looking forward to the Eagle training session. Been spending ages trying to do different schematics but I always fail when I get to the board view
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[20:16] <Upu> as soon as I have this tracker working here
[20:16] <Upu> I'll sit down and go through it with you
[20:17] <ibanezmatt13> cool
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[20:26] <Steve_2E0VET> evening
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[20:33] <nigelvh> Afternoon
[20:35] <ibanezmatt13> If I want to use a potentiometer to control the brightness of an LED but not using a microcontroller and using current control, I guess I'll need to add a current limiting resistor for the LED as well for when the pot is at 0 resistance. So would a 10k pot be ok for this?
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> um
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> not so nice what I read on the EEVBlog forums, says that step-ups might fail and then generate several hundred volts
[20:36] <ibanezmatt13> That guy is a bit mad though :)
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> wasn't him who said that, actually the guy from mikeselectricstuff wrote it
[20:38] <ibanezmatt13> ah right.
[20:39] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander, a decent switching regulator will manage the voltage just fine. However, it may be worthwhile just to use a 9V battery to supply that part of the circuit.
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[20:39] <nigelvh> Assuming that a 9V can supply the current you need, as well as the voltage doesn't need to be totally precise.
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> I think current need will be minimal
[20:41] <nigelvh> Our students mostly use 9V batteries to power their sensors.
[20:41] <nigelvh> Then feed the voltage to our telemetry systems.
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:44] <nigelvh> The sensor output voltage, I should say. Our systems are powered from their own sets of batteries.
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[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:45] <nigelvh> Simple and cheap for the students to build.
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> true
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[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> thanks nigelvh
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[21:03] <Willdude123> Hello
[21:07] <nigelvh> NP Lunar
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody know about conecting tracks between layers using vias in Eagle?
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> I have a component on the bottom and I need to connect it to something on the top
[21:09] <ibanezmatt13> Do I have to name the via or something, Upu ?
[21:12] <nigelvh> Nope, start laying your track on one layer, click your last point where you want the via, go to the top bar and select the next layer you want, and keep laying track. The via will be added automatically.
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> Brilliant it worked! Cheers
[21:13] <nigelvh> You're welcome.
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: why do tracks that are supposed to be on the top appear blue and those on the bottom appear ref
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> red*?
[21:17] <ibanezmatt13> I thought it was the other way round
[21:18] <nigelvh> Generally it is red on top and blue on bottom, but you can set it. I think under the View Menu -> Layers (I don't have it in front of me), you can choose which layers to see, and what colors each layer is.
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> well when I made the polygons, top appeared red, bottom appeared blue, but the tracks are opposite...
[21:19] <nigelvh> You probably started on the bottom then.
[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> probably :)
[21:23] <nigelvh> Just before you start to lay down a trace, just remember to take a glance at what the layer is set to.
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[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> will do, thanks
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[21:35] <craag> Anybody have any tips for trying to unsolder an RFM22 module?
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[21:37] <nigelvh> Hot air.
[21:38] <nigelvh> You're not going to reasonably get that off with a soldering iron.
[21:38] <craag> :/
[21:39] <craag> hot air would be easy
[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: you were right, I started on the wrong layer. Tried to enter text and it was like reading one of Leonardo Da Vinci's notebooks!
[21:39] <craag> Alas I have a 20 quid maplin iron.
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> any tips on starting on the right layer? :)
[21:40] <nigelvh> craag, A hot air rework station can be somewhat expensive, but if you visit your local hobby store, they'll likely have a hot air gun for a few dollars designed for embossing and whatnot that should work ok.
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[21:41] <nigelvh> evening lunar
[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> abend Lunar_Lander
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> I actually meant that I head to bed now
[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> nighten Lunar_Lander
[21:41] <nigelvh> ibanezmatt13, just check the layer before you start. It should use the layer you last used.
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[21:41] <ibanezmatt13> How do I check that again? In layers?
[21:42] <nigelvh> The bar at the top lets you choose what layer.
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> nigelvh: I started by plotting a top polygon around my components and called it gnd. Then I made a bottom layer and called it GND. Why was it upside down?
[21:43] <nigelvh> Text on a bottom layer will be reversed so that it reads properly when you look at the board from the bottom.
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> So even though everything's back to front, when it's made it'll look the same anyway?
[21:44] <nigelvh> Just imagine flipping the board over so the bottom is facing you. The text would be the right direction.
[21:45] <ibanezmatt13> ah of course, thanks
[21:46] <nigelvh> Yep
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[21:51] <craag> nigelvh: Got it off :)
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[21:51] <nigelvh> Without ripping up any pads? Good work!
[21:52] <craag> one pad ripped up :( just checking to see if it was connected..
[21:52] <nigelvh> That's why you use hot air.
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[21:53] <craag> Arggh happens to be Vcc doesn't it
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[21:54] <craag> Yeah, if I waited a few weeks I could use the hot air kit at uni, but I'd like to fly this one before then.
[21:55] <nigelvh> Yep, and now you've to fix it.
[21:56] <fsphil> patch wire time
[21:56] <craag> Not too bad luckily, thick track right next to it, so a little solder bridge should be ok
[21:57] <craag> I've got 11 more of these PCBs that I'm not planning to use, it's just this one already has the 0402s on it.
[21:58] <nigelvh> If you're doing surface mount, you really need to get hot air.
[21:58] <nigelvh> I use it all the time.
[22:00] <craag> Hot air would be nice, serious problem is I don't have space for any more kit though!
[22:00] <craag> (student house, so just my room to cram everything in)
[22:01] <fsphil> you don't really need a bed do you?
[22:01] <nigelvh> Nope.
[22:01] <craag> hehe
[22:01] <fsphil> space always seems to be the problem
[22:01] <fsphil> I can't even use my chair anymore, it's got stuff on it
[22:02] <craag> I remember a pic of a US student dig where the guy had rafters in his room, with all his computer gear and wiring up there, that looked cool.
[22:03] <fsphil> ah neat
[22:03] <fsphil> I've got a few walls I'm going to put shelves on
[22:03] <fsphil> and have little boxes for things and projects
[22:03] <fsphil> well that's the plan anyway
[22:04] <craag> I bought tons of ASDA food boxes (they were 50p each) so use them for one per project.
[22:04] <fsphil> that's a good price .. just thin plastic boxes?
[22:04] <craag> They're quite sturdy, I think they're a pound each normally.
[22:05] <craag> 3 litre 'food storer' according to the one here with it's label still on
[22:06] <fsphil> I got some little thin plastic contains for putting components in, but somehow lost them
[22:06] <fsphil> containers*
[22:06] <fsphil> the sort of thing you'd get from a takeaway
[22:06] <craag> Ah yeah they're cheap, but not designed to be opened/closed much without cracking.
[22:08] <fsphil> the packaging proto-pic send out is great
[22:08] <fsphil> they don't clip closed but they're usually a good shape
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> I got http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Microwave-650ml-Safe-Plastic-Food-Storage-Container-Lids-x-250-Cater-Takeaway-/250896260719?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Kitchen_FoodStorage_GL&hash=item3a6a951e6f (though not from this vendor)
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> Very useful
[22:08] <fsphil> quite flat, ideal for PCBs
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> I have my raspberry Pi in one.
[22:13] <craag> Right 868mhz rfm22 off, 434mhz on.
[22:14] <craag> 100g balloons arrived today, so jsut need to get the netting and I'm ready to try this float when conditions improve.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:18] <fsphil> it'll catch all the balloon material when it burst :)
[22:18] <fsphil> +s
[22:18] <craag> haha yes
[22:18] <craag> good point
[22:19] <craag> going to need a heck of a streamer/chute (for it's size)
[22:19] <craag> Although if I covered the top half of the netting in mylar foil like Leo suggested, it would already be a 1.5m diameter chute!
[22:20] <fsphil> indeed
[22:20] <fsphil> that'd be great for keeping the UV light from it
[22:20] <craag> That's the idea
[22:21] <craag> The hard bit is it doesn't come in spherical sheets :/
[22:21] <fsphil> yep. and if you can make that, it's not too far from just using a mylar balloon
[22:22] <craag> Although far larger than the foils I've seen and you don't have to join the mylar properly, just overlap it.
[22:23] <fsphil> true
[22:23] <fsphil> it'll last longer too
[22:23] <craag> Which from what I've hard, joining mylar is tricky.
[22:23] <craag> *heard
[22:23] <craag> Will probably go without mylar for the first one.
[22:23] <craag> Spend the time on the netting instead.
[22:24] <craag> But we'll see, predictions aren't looking good for at least a week yet.
[22:24] <craag> anyway gn all!
[22:24] <fsphil> nite!
[22:25] <LeoBodnar> Mylar between netting and latex?
[22:25] <LeoBodnar> thought for the night craag
[22:26] <craag> Hmm Leo
[22:26] <fsphil> could be getting heavy
[22:26] <craag> Is going to be a bit of a mess at launch though, as the netting will be v loose.
[22:27] <craag> And yeah, this tracker is 40g so I haven't got much weight on the first one.
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> craag: Tie the payload to the netting
[22:27] <craag> SpeedEvil: That's the plan, as it has to all be <2m :)
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> Kapton Mylar to the netting from the outside through the holes?
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[22:28] <LeoBodnar> Mylar inside, Kapton on the outside :)
[22:28] <craag> yeah..
[22:28] <craag> netting only first I think
[22:28] <craag> To check that it'll hold
[22:29] <craag> Need to decide what ascent rate to aim for
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> Proof of concept, no need for endurance
[22:29] <craag> That's the idea :)
[22:30] <craag> 3 m/s gives about 12km
[22:30] <craag> 86g of free lift, netting should hold that?
[22:31] <craag> Need to weigh the netting before any of this means anything
[22:32] <craag> properly gn now, I was up at 4 this morning, no more distractions Leo!
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> GN! XD
[22:34] <fsphil> hah
[22:35] <fsphil> students ;)
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> What is sleep?
[22:37] <cde> it's merely a state of mind
[22:37] <arko> baby don't snooze me
[22:38] <fsphil> I'm like a swift, one half of my brain sleeps at a time. at least, that's my excuse
[22:39] <cde> you mean like a dolphin
[22:40] <fsphil> same deal
[22:44] <fsphil> swifts can sleep while flying
[22:45] <arko> awesome
[22:46] <fsphil> all I can manage is to drool
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[23:12] <natrium42> fsphil: thinking of coming to the conf
[23:13] <natrium42> any launches planned after/before?
[23:14] <fsphil> natrium42: I'm hoping for one after
[23:14] <fsphil> on the sunday
[23:15] <fsphil> but I can't bring much gear, will need to chat with someone about gas and stuff
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[23:24] <natrium42> fsphil: ok, just thinking which flights to take
[23:24] <natrium42> i was thinking 6th -> 8th
[23:25] <natrium42> but i can delay the flight back by a day
[00:00] --- Thu Aug 1 2013