highaltitude.log.20130729

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[03:08] <DL7AD> good evening
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[03:15] <heathkid> evening DL7AD
[03:15] <DL7AD> hi heathkid ;)
[03:16] <heathkid> hi there :)
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[03:30] <DL7AD> okay uk is still in sleep mode ^^
[03:36] <nigelvh> Evening crew.
[04:04] <DL7AD> hi
[04:05] <nigelvh> How's things down there?
[04:06] <DL7AD> troubleshooting soldering trashbags
[04:06] <nigelvh> Well, two of those words normally go together. The trashbags part less so.
[04:07] <DL7AD> hm....
[04:08] <DL7AD> we got a really huge trashbag now ^^
[04:09] <nigelvh> So are you trying to seal trashbags together?
[04:11] <KT5TK> Yes we want to see if we can get it to floa
[04:11] <KT5TK> t
[04:11] <nigelvh> Interesting. Like a solar balloon, or are you going to use helium?
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[04:16] <KT5TK> Helium
[04:17] <KT5TK> But just a little. Like foil balloons
[04:17] <nigelvh> Interesting. If the seal is strong you'd get good flex from a garbage bag too.
[04:19] <KT5TK> That's why Sven is desperate. His seals ahve pinholes - often
[04:19] <nigelvh> How is he trying to seal them?
[04:20] <KT5TK> Soldering iron and aluminum foil
[04:20] <nigelvh> That sounds very very touchy.
[04:20] <nigelvh> Is he trying to seal two bags together, or just one shut?
[04:21] <KT5TK> He removed the tip and slides along a ruler.
[04:21] <KT5TK> So far only closing one bag
[04:22] <nigelvh> Hmm. Is this a time pressing matter, or just trying it?
[04:22] <KT5TK> Just trying. The predictions look good for tomorrow though
[04:23] <nigelvh> I was just going to say I have a plastic sealer designed to do the job. I could seal up a bag or two and mail it to you.
[04:24] <nigelvh> However, all the garbage bags I've got are the standard white kitchen ones and you probably want a large black bin liner bag.
[04:25] <KT5TK> I don't think it's necessary to send trashbags across the country. But I'd be interested how you do it.
[04:25] <DL7AD> its necessary ;)
[04:25] <nigelvh> I'm not sure how I'd attach two together to create one large bag, but sealing the end of one bag wouldn't be too bad.
[04:26] <KT5TK> We might try it with gle
[04:26] <KT5TK> glue
[04:26] <nigelvh> Problem with glue is it adds weight.
[04:26] <DL7AD> shit happens
[04:27] <DL7AD> one trashbag already weights 260g
[04:46] <nigelvh> BTW KT5TK, think I'm finally done with my next revision that (finally) moves to the SI4464.
[04:46] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Board1.png
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[04:49] <KT5TK> nice! do you have the schematic for me?
[04:49] <nigelvh> Yeah, just a moment.
[04:50] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Schematic.png
[04:55] <KT5TK> Looks pretty good!
[04:55] <nigelvh> That's the hope
[04:55] <nigelvh> Managed to make it a bit smaller than the last one. Much more tightly packed and not much open space.
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[04:56] <KT5TK> Not sure if the trace to the Chip antenna is perfect this way . I'd turn the chip antenna by 90 degrees
[04:56] <KT5TK> so that it is perpendicular to the ground plane
[04:57] <nigelvh> Actually, there aren't any grounds within a good bit of that ground plane, I can just pull the plane back without lengthening the board.
[04:59] <KT5TK> The MAX6/7 has a separate reset pin on my board. I do an explicit reset in software. You have pulled all pins together. Likely it'll work that way anyways
[05:00] <nigelvh> I've run the MAX6 like this on a test board, and I've got control of the power with a mosfet.
[05:00] <KT5TK> What is JP2 for?
[05:02] <nigelvh> JP2 is to enable or disable the low volt protection for the battery, so if I'm using a LiPo, connect that and the reg will shut down at 2.8V. Else it will run as low as the reg can go.
[05:02] <KT5TK> Ah, interesting. Did you work out those values for the LPF on your network analyzer?
[05:03] <nigelvh> http://digitalnigel.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Board1.png
[05:03] <nigelvh> Updated board with the pulled back ground plane.
[05:04] <nigelvh> The output LPF is just based on a calculator and sim.
[05:04] <KT5TK> Ah, no, last version was better.
[05:05] <nigelvh> How so?
[05:05] <KT5TK> there is only a very long trace that leads to the antenna
[05:05] <KT5TK> Could you turn around the whole MAX by 180 degrees?
[05:05] <nigelvh> Suggest a GP on the bottom layer up to the base of the ant?
[05:06] <KT5TK> and have the chip antenna on the side of the PCB?
[05:06] <nigelvh> Chip antenna where it is, just pull the bottom layer down vertically to give better impedance to the antenna trace.
[05:06] <KT5TK> no, Antenna connector facing to the south
[05:07] <KT5TK> on the top side
[05:07] <nigelvh> I'm not sure I follow.
[05:08] <nigelvh> I've used this antenna on a test board with NO ground plane anywhere.
[05:08] <nigelvh> Though with a bit shorter trace.
[05:09] <KT5TK> he MAX6 footprint should be turned so that the ublox dot is on the top right
[05:11] <KT5TK> I simply say that the trace that connects to the chip antenna is too long. It's in the magnityde of 1/4 lambda
[05:11] <KT5TK> magnitude
[05:11] <nigelvh> I don't think that will make the trace much shorter. Maybe I can get it to fit rotated 90 clockwise which would make it a lot shorter.
[05:12] <KT5TK> Ye, that's what I meant. It's also possible to turn it 180 degrees
[05:12] <nigelvh> If I turn 180, even if I flip the antenna to match, it's going to still be a ways off.
[05:17] <KT5TK> Then you could put the Chip antenna somewhere where R16 is now. Regardless, try it as is. Maybe give the antenna strip line a little more spacing to the ground plane
[05:23] <nigelvh> Refresh
[05:24] <KT5TK> yeah, much better
[05:24] <nigelvh> I agree.
[05:24] <nigelvh> Thanks for making me reconsider.
[05:25] <KT5TK> You still use this big crystal for the atmeg?
[05:26] <nigelvh> Yeah, I haven't bothered switching yet to something like a 5x3.
[05:26] <nigelvh> But I agree, that would save space.
[05:27] <KT5TK> simply make alternative footprints for the crystal. Then you have the choice later
[05:28] <KT5TK> The ABM3 that some of us use is really good
[05:31] <nigelvh> That will actually fit between the two pads of my existing footprint.
[05:31] <KT5TK> Yes, that can be simply done
[05:31] <nigelvh> I've just removed the Vias from between those two pads, so if I put one of the ABM3's on, it won't short out.
[05:33] <nigelvh> Refresh will now reflect that.
[05:33] <KT5TK> excellent
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[05:34] <nigelvh> Any other thoughts?
[05:35] <KT5TK> The vias between the L6 inductor pads look pretty close. I don't think you need them
[05:35] <nigelvh> Yep. Removed.
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[05:40] <KT5TK> U$3 has a via that stands out to the chip antenna. You could come from the other side more directly and also turn around R16
[05:41] <nigelvh> Yep. That was a carryover from before. Good catch.
[05:45] <nigelvh> Fixed
[05:45] <KT5TK> The footprint for your VCXO only allows 5x7 mm packages. I've made a footprint that also allows 3x5 and even 2x3. Just a thought for your next revision some time. This way you are more flexible with the choices of oscillators. E.g. I only found a small TCVXO
[05:46] <KT5TK> Most of those packages are pin compatible. just different sizes
[05:47] <nigelvh> Yeah, a 2x3 wouldn't fit, but I think a 3x5 might just barely. I don't have one in front of me to see.
[05:48] <nigelvh> But yes, the idea of compatibility.
[05:48] <nigelvh> Refreshed.
[05:50] <KT5TK> Yeah, pretty good now.
[05:50] <KT5TK> I don't see any more improvements
[05:51] <nigelvh> Good deal. It's my bed time, so I'll probably sleep on it, fix up any last minute bits tomorrow, and send it off.
[05:51] <nigelvh> Thanks for taking a glance at it.
[05:56] <nigelvh> Anyway, evening time for me.
[05:56] <nigelvh> Have a good one!
[05:57] <KT5TK> You're welcome. Bed time here as well
[05:57] <KT5TK> gn
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[06:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All
[06:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> my tracker is running again - Dano OM1ATS is receiving weak traces but not decode
[06:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> it should be over Bulgaria now
[06:17] <x-f> you launched something?
[06:17] <x-f> what? when? why is nobody making launch announcements anymore?
[06:17] <x-f> (good morning)
[06:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=SP9UOB
[06:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> solar only powered floater
[06:19] <x-f> i see
[06:21] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, lz1dev is in Sofia, and i found his email on the mailing list
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[06:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: i must go wo work now - can You drop him short email frequency is near 437.596 MHz
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[06:37] <Willdude123> iHello
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[06:38] <x-f> sure
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[06:39] <Willdude123> Isn't LOHAN illegal, because unmanned UAVs that you can't see are not allowed?
[06:40] <UpuWork> not in Spain Will
[06:41] <Willdude123> Oh is that where the register is based
[06:41] <Willdude123> Morning UpuWork
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[07:39] <ibanezmatt13> Good Morning
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[08:00] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[09:55] <cyclops> Morning!
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[10:03] <craag> Hmm, couldn't you just pull the launch site data for all flights from habitat?
[10:04] <craag> Still not really sure of the value though.
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[10:05] <Randomskk> could, yes
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[10:07] <mfa298> I think part of the answer as to why it's been done is to look at who's behind the map.
[10:07] <craag> mm
[10:07] <mfa298> which probably means he wouldn't pull the data from habitat
[10:08] <craag> He had that 'launch fiesta' thing planned for this summer didn't he?
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[10:08] <mfa298> the fiesta is the second item on his site by the looks of things
[10:08] <mfa298> I wonder if anyone has said they'de take part
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[10:10] <craag> It sounded like he was trying to over-organise it last I heard.
[10:10] <mfa298> to quote the fiesta page: Flight 1 confirmed as Chris Hillcox 1000g balloon. Tracking via SPOT Messenger and CattraQ
[10:11] <mfa298> there's no flight 2 listed
[10:11] <craag> hehe
[10:11] <craag> guess it's all a bit under-inflated then!
[10:11] <mfa298> on the 9/10th august or 16/17 august
[10:11] <craag> Well it's running a bit late for NOTAMs now..
[10:12] <HixWork> sounds like more of a 'launch morris marina' than a fiesta
[10:13] Action: daveake remembers an Ital that rear-steered over bumps
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[10:14] <craag> hehe
[10:15] <craag> Was there talk of doing some combined launches just before/after the conference?
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[10:25] <gonzo_> (I havwe a car that rear steers. Not by design though! Or is it by poor design?)
[10:29] <cyclops> yay, habduino on its way home
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[10:38] <cyclops_> arg wifi
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[10:45] <fsphil> craag: it's occasionally been suggested, mostly by me I think :)
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[10:56] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: I read your email Upu and I since changed a few things. However, in the board view I'm having trouble routing the tracks even manually. The TX on the Ublox going to RX on the AVR and the same with RX on the AVR is causing problems
[10:57] <ibanezmatt13> I can't seem to get them connected UpuWork without having tracks cross or isolating the Ublox
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[11:01] <mikestir-work> why can't you just cross them over on the back?
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> you mean take it to another layer through a via and back up?
[11:02] <mikestir-work> yes
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> I was going to use the bottom layer as a ground pour
[11:02] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=34wqpGDS0dY&t=105
[11:02] <mikestir-work> you can still do that
[11:02] <Darkside> where the hell have i heard that b efore
[11:02] <mikestir-work> it will automatically provide isolation from the ground pour
[11:02] <ibanezmatt13> really? That's brillaitn
[11:02] <mikestir-work> it's fine as long as you don't chop the pour up so badly that you end up with loops, especially if you also have a pour on the top
[11:03] <mikestir-work> and don't run anything under matched RF tracks, if you have any
[11:03] <mikestir-work> these must have ground plane behind them
[11:03] <ibanezmatt13> Its gonna have a ground pour on the top and bottom but as you said I can always leave a little bit out. Yes, I'm gonna issolate the RF tracks. Thanks!
[11:04] <ibanezmatt13> I can't have a ground plane near the RF tracks mikestir-work ?
[11:04] <mikestir-work> you know you can switch layers by middle clicking while you're routing (IIRC, this is coming from muscle-memory rather than my head!)
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[11:05] <ibanezmatt13> So I just need to add a via down to another layer, a bit of track, and then another via back up?
[11:05] <mikestir-work> for a microstrip track there should be solid ground pour on the back and reasonable gap from any pour on the top side
[11:05] <mikestir-work> if you switch layers while routing it will add the vias for you
[11:07] <ibanezmatt13> thanks for the info mikestir-work
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[11:16] <Willdude123> Hello
[11:17] <Willdude123> My blog is now on google, despite having 4 hits so far
[11:17] <cyclops_> url?
[11:17] <Willdude123> Urgh I have to wait ages before google will display ads.
[11:18] <Willdude123> http://willdover.co.uk
[11:19] <Willdude123> Y'know if anyone wants to donate to the project...
[11:19] <cyclops_> mine is dealtosvuelos.com Spanish thoug
[11:19] <Willdude123> I did get approved for adsense pretty quick
[11:20] <Willdude123> I just can't ask people to click on the ads...
[11:21] <cyclops_> dont expect to get much
[11:21] <cyclops_> Dont expect better said
[11:21] <Willdude123> Yeah
[11:21] <cyclops_> Unless you have a lot of traffic is really difficult to get money
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[11:25] <HixWork> Found an MIY open course Introduction to Python. liks to pdf book that are free to download. Worth a share http://goo.gl/7EAFy
[11:25] <HixWork> *MIT
[11:27] <Willdude123> They did that as an edx course
[11:27] <Willdude123> I dropped out and learnt in my own time
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[12:15] <HixWork> great progress with python. print "Hello World!" returns a syntax error it needs to be print ("Hello world!") not according to everything I've read
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[12:17] <craag> python/python3
[12:17] <daveake> They changed it
[12:17] <craag> They're almost different languages
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[12:17] <daveake> yup. PITA
[12:19] <HixWork> cack. So should I be learning 3 or 2?
[12:19] <HixWork> suppose 2?
[12:20] <HixWork> or is it simply Python which jumped to Python3
[12:20] <craag> I learnt 2 so have stuck with it. I find the syntax a bit easier
[12:20] <craag> less pedantic at least.
[12:21] <HixWork> seems that's what I need then as I appear to be following a course that used it. #annoying
[12:22] <daveake> It's a bit sad when "Hello World" doesn't work
[12:22] <HixWork> demoralising when the first hurdle smacks you in the chest :)
[12:23] <daveake> Second after installing it, so you did OK up to then :)
[12:23] <daveake> Except you installed the wrong one so back to start for you :)
[12:25] <HixWork> Joy - the idea was to learn Python in a bid to help with C. Turns out it was more effort than C
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[12:27] <HixWork> 2.7 going in
[12:27] <HixWork> >>> print "Hello World!!!"
[12:27] <HixWork> Hello World!!!
[12:27] <HixWork> a small sweet victory
[12:27] <craag> :)
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[12:27] <HixWork> as it should be
[12:28] <HixWork> why the hell did they feel the need to change such an important aspect
[12:28] <craag> Apparently it makes the language more 'academically-correct'
[12:29] <craag> There's a ton of other changes with arrays, function calls, etc.
[12:29] Action: HixWork steers clear then
[12:30] <craag> Yep that's the best choice.
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[12:30] <HixWork> never realised there were so many modules for it and just how powerful it can be
[12:30] Action: craag still gets bug reports from people asking why his programs don't work with the 'latest' version of python, arrgh
[12:31] <daveake> Anyone who thinks "more academically correct" overrides "but it breaks all the existing Python code in the world" needs to be shot in the eye with a reality arrow
[12:31] <craag> hehe yeah, relevant xkcd: http://xkcd.com/353/
[12:32] <HixWork> heh
[12:32] <mfa298> maybe they should go down the route of perl (where I think print "Hello World" or print("Hello World") would work)
[12:32] <craag> daveake: I'd love to put them and Linus in the same room :)
[12:32] <craag> mfa298: Either works in python2 :)
[12:32] <HixWork> it does seem somewhat backwards to break all the stuff that worked before
[12:33] <HixWork> I wish keyboards had ()<>" etc as keys in place of F keys, much more oftern used
[12:33] <mfa298> perl you can probably also use just print if the special variable $_ contained "Hello World"
[12:34] <mfa298> but that way leads to insanity for anyone trying to debug your code
[12:34] <craag> haha
[12:34] <lz1dev> thats their problem
[12:36] <daveake> Speaking of insanity, I was once on a C project where the eejit responsible for coding standards decided that the main project header file should contain ...
[12:36] <daveake> #define TRUE 0
[12:36] <daveake> #define FALSE 1
[12:36] <daveake> I got quite close to murdering him
[12:36] <HixWork> wtf?
[12:36] <lz1dev> how close
[12:36] <daveake> Well he left :)
[12:36] <lz1dev> forever?
[12:36] <daveake> Not of his own accord
[12:36] <HixWork> you mean he right
[12:37] <lz1dev> :P
[12:37] <daveake> He was right. Er I mean wrong :)
[12:37] <HixWork> 1
[12:38] <HixWork> import antigravity hasn't worked. Yet
[12:38] <daveake> sPe ‡1 sݎ
[12:38] <craag> HixWork: You have to be running gentoo to get enough speed for take-off ;)
[12:39] <HixWork> sPe ‡1 sݎ
[12:39] <HixWork> hmm when i paste that i see it, whn i post it its weird symbols
[12:39] <daveake> (-: oßs os Ýy,noŽ
[12:39] <daveake> oh
[12:39] <HixWork> (-: oßs os Ýy,noŽ
[12:39] <HixWork> yup same again
[12:39] <daveake> Well I see mine and yours OK
[12:39] <HixWork> blaming x-chat windows
[12:40] <daveake> This is x-chat Windows
[12:40] <HixWork> out of blames
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[12:45] <HixWork> (-: oßs os Ýy,noŽ
[12:46] <HixWork> hmm, strange its the Y, r,e,l,w missing the chars that are symetrical appear
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[12:59] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE-M -> serve
[13:00] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake: why is that not good?
[13:00] <Lunar_LanderU> I mean there is an example code for the HIH-61xx series, which has the same definition
[13:00] <Lunar_LanderU> or is that superfluous?
[13:00] Nick change: serve -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[13:00] <daveake> Really?
[13:00] <daveake> You sure it's that way round????
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> no sorry,
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> didn't look at the numbers :)
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> he had TRUE 1, FALSE 0
[13:01] <daveake> They're important
[13:01] <daveake> 'cos the wrong way round, things like ...
[13:01] <daveake> if (ThatProgrammerWasAnIdiot()) wouldn't work
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yea xD
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> btw I am proud
[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> I took the old HIH-4030 that flew in March and was able to desolder it from its breakout
[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> then I was able to resolder it, by fixing one pad and then having a solder blob and removing the excess with wick
[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> which is good, because that was my first SMD attempt
[13:02] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[13:03] <Lunar_LanderU> and it enables me to solder on the HIH-5030 for 3.3V
[13:07] <daveake> cool
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[13:18] <mfa298> in that instance if the programmer wrote the ThatProgrammerWasAnIdiot funtion and returned FALSE (as he probably would do) your if statement would work (but he wouldnt understand why)
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[13:21] <daveake> lol
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[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork, do you have an Eagle file handy for the Pi n Chips board?
[13:36] <UpuWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6h91vuqswhxubwx/piandchipsv1.zip
[13:36] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
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[13:42] <Laurenceb> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/porn.jpg?w=620&h=324
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[13:47] <ibanezmatt13> UpuWork: Is both the top layer and bottom layer of the Pi and Chips board a ground pour?
[13:52] <UpuWork> yeah probably
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[13:53] <Reactive> hi :)
[13:53] <UpuWork> hi there
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[13:53] <Reactive> hows things?
[13:54] <UpuWork> quite at the moment
[13:54] <ibanezmatt13> pretty cool eh? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6aVVNLeyAc
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[13:54] <Reactive> are most of the regulars here from the uk?
[13:55] <UpuWork> we have a fairly international group of people here
[13:55] <Reactive> suppose it doesnt matter :)
[13:55] <UpuWork> not really :)
[13:56] <Reactive> i've been thinking about sending something up, mind asking some questions i have about radio telemetry?
[13:56] <Reactive> err, answering too
[13:56] <UpuWork> go for it
[13:56] <UpuWork> where abouts are you firstly ?
[13:56] <Reactive> south africa
[13:56] <Reactive> johannesburg
[13:56] <UpuWork> ok I'm not familar with the legislation over there
[13:57] <Reactive> i've used wifi radio alot in my electronics projects
[13:57] <UpuWork> but shoot anyway
[13:57] <Reactive> neither am I, but to be honest I don't think they're too strict - i'm looking at the 433 band
[13:58] <Reactive> 10-50mW-ish
[13:58] <UpuWork> ok well you only need 10mW
[13:58] <Reactive> anyway, i hardly know what i'm talking about, based my ideas from what I've read about most types of balloon projects
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[13:58] <UpuWork> best place to start really reading other peoples blogs
[13:58] <UpuWork> and the UKHAS Wiki
[13:58] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[13:59] <Reactive> the story behind the 50mW is I know a guy who builds them and has a few he uses for some industrial stuff, so it's uber cheap and I've used telemetry with alot of his sysems before
[14:00] <ibanezmatt13> Reactive: Here's a particularly good one: http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=592 And this too is a good read: http://www.stratodean.co.uk/
[14:00] <Reactive> anyway, my first question is - if you're using a 10mW transceiver, how much slack do you have on the LOS signal?
[14:00] <UpuWork> well possibly you could adapt the module using the tutorials for the NTX2 on the wiki
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[14:00] <Reactive> How do you know when to reposition your antenna?
[14:01] <UpuWork> the only thing is we've seen other modules drift wildly with the low temps
[14:01] <Reactive> thanks ibanezmatt13, i'll take a look
[14:01] <UpuWork> whereas the NTX2 is quite proven
[14:01] <Reactive> i read about that problem
[14:01] <UpuWork> we get ranges of 500km on a regular basis
[14:01] <Reactive> that's insane
[14:01] <ibanezmatt13> agreed
[14:01] <Reactive> -60 is your definition of low i assume
[14:01] <Reactive> (celsius)
[14:01] <UpuWork> thats to omnidirectional antennas
[14:02] <UpuWork> well you need to insulate your payload
[14:02] <UpuWork> rarely they get below -20
[14:02] <Reactive> so it has nothing to do with the antenna?
[14:02] <Reactive> my concern was it had to do with the antenna, i've got a plan for interior insulation
[14:02] <Reactive> so that's no longer an issue?
[14:03] <UpuWork> generally a 1/4 wave on your payload is fine
[14:03] <TabletEvil> Nope.
[14:03] <TabletEvil> Low gain omni antennas are usual
[14:03] <TabletEvil> (on the top)
[14:03] Nick change: TabletEvil -> SpeedEvil
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> What's no longer an issue?
[14:03] <Reactive> my follow up question is - I like the idea of using the radio setup on the ukhas site, and I've read about the standards of data - but what if I wanted 'private' data streams like payload status etc?
[14:04] <Reactive> SpeedEvil: <Reactive> so it has nothing to do with the antenna?
[14:04] <Reactive> the temperate vs signal drift
[14:04] <craag> Reactive: You can add your own 'fields' to each telemetry string.
[14:04] <Reactive> * temperature
[14:04] <Reactive> how do you filter it out from the app?
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[14:04] <UpuWork> well if you want to transmit UKHAS protocol and use spacenear.us to track it has to be unencrypted
[14:04] <Reactive> is it like a configuration where you define which parts of the csv string are not included?
[14:05] <craag> Reactive: http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[14:05] <Reactive> that's what I'm referring to
[14:05] <Reactive> looks decent
[14:05] <Reactive> just wanted to add some extra stuff in there that might not be relevant to other trackers
[14:06] <UpuWork> oh yeah you can put what you want on there
[14:06] <Reactive> although I would assume you can make your telemetry private if you wanted to
[14:06] <Darkside> there really isnt much point doing it
[14:06] <Darkside> it just makes it harder to deal with
[14:06] <Reactive> so I like the radio setup described on the site, specifically because it's tried and tested
[14:06] <Reactive> my first idea was just to figure out the telemetry and do my own thing
[14:07] <Reactive> but do I really need the radio hardware with the audio jack or can I just stream the data into the app directly?
[14:07] <Darkside> we
[14:07] <Darkside> er
[14:07] <Darkside> the app takes audio input
[14:08] <Reactive> Darkside: what are you referring to <Darkside> there really isnt much point doing it
[14:08] <Darkside> you can either take that from an external radio and then in through an audio input
[14:08] <Darkside> Reactive: encryption
[14:09] <Reactive> Darkside: if I had my own custom radio transceiver that gave me the ascii telemetry in that comma delimited format, can I not just use that?
[14:09] <Reactive> or am I missing the point of the radio?
[14:09] <Darkside> well, sure, theres many ways of doing the radio link
[14:09] <Darkside> but the UKHAS way is very reliable
[14:09] <Darkside> primarily due to the low bitrate
[14:09] <Darkside> you don't need many bits to track a balloon
[14:09] <Reactive> hmmm
[14:09] <Reactive> let me browse that article again quick
[14:10] <Darkside> its not as if its moving eratically, so 50 baud gets you a position update every 20 seconds or so
[14:10] <Darkside> which is more than enough
[14:10] <Darkside> and its ridiculously reliable
[14:10] <Reactive> is it possible to transmit a low quality image successfully?
[14:10] <HixWork> SSDV
[14:10] <Darkside> yes
[14:10] <Darkside> but dont do that on your first flight :-)
[14:10] <Reactive> what bandwidth am I looking at?
[14:10] <HixWork> see daveackermans blog for that
[14:10] <Darkside> we really suggest that your first flight focuses on tracking the payload
[14:10] <Darkside> sure, stick a camera on it
[14:10] <Reactive> thats what I thought too
[14:11] <Darkside> but keep the telemetry just for tracking
[14:11] <Reactive> a good data logger and a parachute should sort me out
[14:11] <Darkside> a lot of the cheaper canon digicams can run CHDK
[14:11] <Darkside> which works great for taking pictures
[14:11] <Darkside> and theres always the crowd favourite, the GoPro
[14:11] <Reactive> i'm thinking of using one of those ublox gps modules and a simple temp sensor on my first go
[14:11] <Darkside> yep
[14:12] <Darkside> that'll work fine
[14:12] <Darkside> maybe 2 temp sensors
[14:12] <Darkside> one inside the box, one outside :-)
[14:12] <HixWork> other modules fail >18Km altitude
[14:12] <Reactive> i was thinking of getting a gopro, would be awesome, but expensive
[14:12] <Darkside> anyway, focus on getting the tracking side of it working
[14:12] <Reactive> especially on a first-time/high probability of failure ratio
[14:12] <Darkside> as if you dont have that working, theres not much point launching
[14:12] <Reactive> ok, so I need to start playing with the radio setup
[14:12] <HixWork> yeah leave gopro for flight 2 :)
[14:12] <Darkside> get an NTX2 and some radio to receive with
[14:13] <Reactive> HixWork: that 60k ft limit?
[14:13] <Darkside> you dont necessarily have to use a radio with an audio output
[14:13] <Darkside> you could use a SDR
[14:13] <Reactive> yeah, I've got a SIRFIII lying around and got bummed once I read about the limitation :
[14:13] <Darkside> like, those RTLSDR's work OK, with a decent frontend filter + amp on them
[14:13] <Reactive> Darkside: you'll have to go slowly on this with me
[14:13] <HixWork> Reactive, yes - virtually all fail at altittude. Ublox has a flight mode
[14:13] <Darkside> Reactive: so the dl-fldigi software takes audio input
[14:14] <x-f> Reactive, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[14:14] <Darkside> you either have an external radio which takes the RF, and does the sideband demodulation to give you the audio, or you use a SDR, which basically feeds sampled RF into your computer
[14:14] <Darkside> your computer then has to do the sideband demodulation, then feed that into dl-fldigi
[14:14] <Darkside> so using a SDR basically means the computer is working harder
[14:15] <Darkside> but with cheaper external hardware (a RTLSDR usb stick)
[14:15] <Reactive> is the demodulation the error correction etc?
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[14:15] <Darkside> no
[14:15] <Darkside> FSK demodulation
[14:15] <Reactive> oh
[14:15] <Reactive> so what does the error correction crap?
[14:15] <Darkside> nothing
[14:15] <Darkside> there is no error correction :P
[14:15] <Darkside> theres error *detection* though
[14:15] <Darkside> through the CRC16 checksum
[14:16] <Reactive> so how can I guarantee my stream is from my payload and not my mother?
[14:16] <HixWork> Reactive, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker for the SDR intel
[14:16] <Darkside> well, it'll have $$YOURCALLSIGN at the front of it
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[14:16] <cyclops> hi!
[14:16] <HixWork> callsign identifies
[14:16] <HixWork> hey cyclops
[14:16] <Darkside> and its not like anyone else is goign to be using that frequency and modulation scheme at the same itme
[14:16] <Reactive> or rather to phrase it better, surely it breaks up the signal when it moves around?
[14:16] <Darkside> Reactive: not enough to cause problems
[14:16] <cyclops> HixWork: almost ready for launch
[14:16] <HixWork> sweet
[14:16] <cyclops> Upu just sent the habduino
[14:16] <Darkside> you'd be surprised how well 50 baud works
[14:17] <Reactive> so if I sent an ascii stream of 255 chars i'd guaranteed get it?
[14:17] <Darkside> not 100%
[14:17] <Darkside> but since you're sending line after line of data
[14:17] <Darkside> you're going to get something
[14:17] <Reactive> hmm
[14:17] <Darkside> if you miss a line, big deal
[14:17] <Darkside> you get the next one
[14:17] <Reactive> whats the chance out of 100%?
[14:17] <HixWork> ideally you want local HAMs to join in and track
[14:17] <Reactive> or rather what factors are the highest of failure?
[14:18] <Darkside> through a normal flight, we generally receive 95% of the data
[14:18] <Darkside> often more
[14:18] <HixWork> then you have a better chance of the info getting to spacenear
[14:18] <cyclops> Im now work hard on getting antennas on the map :P
[14:18] <cyclops> Only backup tracker and batts left to arrive
[14:18] <Reactive> thats awesome
[14:18] <Darkside> and thats from a signal receiver, usually on a chase car
[14:18] <Reactive> lol
[14:18] <Reactive> so you drive around and track it?
[14:18] <Darkside> yeah
[14:18] <Darkside> we follow it
[14:18] <Reactive> i figured I'd sit in a bar and wait for it to land
[14:18] <Reactive> then go find it
[14:18] <Darkside> nah
[14:18] <HixWork> cyclops, excellent - swift work there
[14:18] <Darkside> you'll lose it as it goes below your local horizon
[14:18] <Darkside> its good to be in the general vicinity when it gomes down
[14:18] <Reactive> shit i didn't think of that
[14:19] <Darkside> that way you get data packets down to a few hundred metres alt
[14:19] <HixWork> bar after Reactive :)
[14:19] <Reactive> thats fun, ill just pack the cooler bag in the car then
[14:19] <Reactive> ok
[14:19] <Darkside> once its on the ground you can usually decode packets from a few km around
[14:19] <Darkside> if it lands in a tree, often a lot further :-)
[14:19] <Reactive> so what is the shopping list I need to get my telemetry 100% sorted out?
[14:19] <daveake> more if it's in a tree :p
[14:19] <Reactive> and do they ship to south africa?
[14:19] <HixWork> you'll probably want a directional antenna for the ground
[14:19] <Darkside> Reactive: yeah
[14:20] <Reactive> i'll use a gprs module for the land i think
[14:20] <Darkside> gps module, arduino or other microcontroller platform, NTC2
[14:20] <Darkside> NTX2*
[14:20] <Darkside> nah
[14:20] <HixWork> Reactive, www.http://habduino.org/
[14:20] <Darkside> gprs sucks
[14:20] <HixWork> bugger http://habduino.org/
[14:20] <Reactive> ive got the netduino and gps module
[14:20] <Darkside> what if you land out of phone coverage?
[14:20] <Reactive> uh
[14:20] <Darkside> and GSM won't work above a few hundred metres
[14:20] <Reactive> well at least I'll have the cooler box
[14:21] <Reactive> actually, being in SA means we have alot of neighboring towns with mountains where most of our cell towers are
[14:21] <Reactive> and we actually have great cell infrastructure here
[14:21] <x-f> Darkside, GSM usually works for a few kilometers
[14:21] <Reactive> but perhaps both is better than 1?
[14:21] <Darkside> yeah
[14:21] <Darkside> may as well
[14:22] <HixWork> GSM is horizontal so fails ~2Km
[14:22] <Darkside> but you'll probably get packets from the NTX2 right down until landing
[14:22] <Darkside> and at that point oyu just go to the landing site
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[14:22] <Darkside> then you get close enough to decode a packet from it on the ground
[14:22] <Darkside> then just go to the landing site
[14:23] <x-f> HixWork, i received SMS from a 3.2 km altitude on the descent, and phone had not the best looking antenna
[14:23] <Darkside> of course the 'just go to th elanding site' part may be tricky
[14:23] <Darkside> but at least you know where it is
[14:23] <Darkside> and you hav the cooler if you can't get to it
[14:23] <HixWork> Reactive, check out http://habduino.org/ UpuWork created the project and the hardware
[14:23] <Darkside> drown your sorrows
[14:23] <Willdude123> Hello
[14:24] <HixWork> x-f, really? 3.2Km AMSL or your location?
[14:24] <Reactive> Darkside: how close have you been to where it landed and the last signal you received?
[14:24] <Darkside> Reactive: uhmmmmm
[14:24] <Reactive> i mean, if i'm 20km away, is it a problem?
[14:24] <Darkside> you'll get packets down to a few hundred metres from that point
[14:24] <Reactive> hmm
[14:24] <Darkside> thats pretty good
[14:24] <daveake> So long as there are no hills in the way
[14:25] <Darkside> like, its not going to go that far away from that position in the last few hundred metres
[14:25] <daveake> Indeed
[14:25] <Reactive> but if you're transmitting every 20 mins, surely it'll float further than a few hunded meters till it lands?
[14:25] <Darkside> so you drive to the last heard position
[14:25] <HixWork> 20 secs
[14:25] <Reactive> oh
[14:25] <Darkside> yeah
[14:25] <Reactive> did he say 20 secs?
[14:25] <Reactive> oh, lol
[14:25] <HixWork> yup
[14:25] <daveake> Generally I found here (UK) with the number of listeners we have, the lowest recorded position is around 500m
[14:25] <Darkside> i hope i did
[14:25] <Reactive> yeah that makes better sense
[14:25] <daveake> 500m alt
[14:25] <Reactive> I think you did :)
[14:25] <HixWork> heh
[14:25] <Darkside> in australia we can use more power
[14:25] <Reactive> daveake: lowest?
[14:25] <Darkside> so we use 300 baud
[14:25] <daveake> Er yes, lowest
[14:25] <Darkside> so we get a packet every 3-4 seconds
[14:26] <Reactive> oh, its altitude based?
[14:26] <x-f> HixWork, AMSL, ground was ~100m
[14:26] <Darkside> Reactive: its basically from line of sight
[14:26] <daveake> So you drive to that position or the predicted landed spot. Once youre within say 2km (depends on terrain) you should start to hear the tracker again
[14:26] <HixWork> oh wow that is good
[14:26] <Reactive> thats pretty decent
[14:26] <daveake> Pretty soon it's strong enough to decode, so you decode it and go to that position
[14:27] <Reactive> can someone ship me a NTX2?
[14:27] <daveake> Barring trees, lakes, rivers, ditches, barbed wire, armed soldiers or angry farmers, you should get it back
[14:27] <HixWork> Reactive, you can get previous flight data here http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[14:27] <Darkside> Reactive: upu can
[14:27] <HixWork> should give you a better idea
[14:27] <Darkside> Reactive: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
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[14:27] <UpuWork> I'll be back later on
[14:27] <cyclops> Oh god
[14:28] <Willdude123> Hi UpuWork
[14:28] <cyclops> hate my internet
[14:28] <Reactive> i have a feeling I'll have armed soldiers on me
[14:28] <Reactive> errr, farmers
[14:28] <Willdude123> cyclops: I have a little above 100k connection here so stop complainimg
[14:28] <Reactive> where's the link to the NTX2?
[14:28] <cyclops> Em
[14:29] <cyclops> I have almost the same
[14:29] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=61
[14:29] <Reactive> oh its just a module?
[14:29] <Darkside> yeah
[14:29] <Reactive> wheres the audio out? or is that a different product?
[14:29] <Darkside> this is just the transmit side
[14:29] <Darkside> on the payload
[14:29] <Darkside> the receive side is up to you
[14:30] <Reactive> what if I wanted to transcieve on the payload?
[14:30] <Reactive> issue commands?
[14:30] <Darkside> for your first payload, don't bother
[14:30] <Darkside> its a lot of work
[14:30] <Darkside> and would also require you to have an amateur radio license
[14:30] <Reactive> i'd prefer just buying the hardware
[14:30] <Reactive> and get that sorted
[14:30] <HixWork> Reactive, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker for SDR reciever info
[14:30] <Reactive> and re-use it for transceiving
[14:31] <Reactive> Darkside: why dont you need the license to transmit from the payload?
[14:31] <Darkside> power
[14:31] <Darkside> ISM band limits will be a few tens of mW
[14:31] <Reactive> surely the same amount of power is required to go both ways?
[14:31] <Darkside> you'd think so, right
[14:31] <Reactive> yeah :/
[14:31] <Reactive> but?
[14:31] <Darkside> but you're decoding the 50 baud signal on the ground with the help of a powerful comptuer
[14:32] <Darkside> you dont have the same on the payload
[14:32] <Reactive> thats right
[14:32] <Reactive> dammit
[14:32] <Reactive> what sort of setup do you need on the payload for that?
[14:32] <Darkside> there are ways of transmitting up to the payload, but you generally dont need to bother
[14:32] <Darkside> oh, there are radio modules that will transceive
[14:32] <Darkside> but i've found for a reliable uplink i need a few watts on the ground side
[14:32] <Reactive> hmm
[14:33] <Darkside> which is well over the ISM band limit
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[14:33] <Darkside> and hence you need an amateur radio licence
[14:33] <Reactive> but again, why do you need more power going up than down?
[14:33] <Reactive> if you just had a hardware module to decode?
[14:33] <Darkside> becausr the hardware modules have a lower baud rate limit
[14:33] <HixWork> Reactive, here a flight was tracked to 479m and 8 mins later it was picked up again on the ground at 44m http://goo.gl/VlIR5f
[14:33] <Darkside> which is usually a lot higher than 50 baud
[14:33] <HixWork> scroll to the bottom
[14:33] <Darkside> the one i use caps out around 500 baud
[14:34] <Darkside> so i need more power to get a reliable decode on the payload
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[14:34] <Reactive> ah
[14:34] <Darkside> i mean, people have done lower baud rate receivers
[14:34] <Reactive> so the NTX2, how do I connect it up to a PC? does it have UART or something?
[14:34] <Darkside> but the compexity gos up a lot
[14:34] <Darkside> goes*
[14:35] <Darkside> Reactive: you dont use the NTX2 on the ground side
[14:35] <Darkside> thats the transmitter in the payload
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[14:35] <Reactive> thats why I'm confused, hehe
[14:35] <Darkside> which you connect to a microcontroller or whatever
[14:35] <Reactive> ok
[14:35] <Darkside> so you can think of the NTX2 as a carrier wave generator
[14:35] <Reactive> so what is the comms protocol on the ntx2?
[14:35] <Reactive> how do I stream ascii to it?
[14:35] <Darkside> you can shift the frequency of that carrier wave by changing the voltage on a pin
[14:36] <daveake> Like this <-- http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[14:36] <Darkside> so we use this to produce 'FSK' - Frequency Shift Keying
[14:36] <daveake> --> even
[14:36] <Darkside> one frequency represents a '0', another a '1'
[14:36] <Darkside> so you could stream bytes through one after th eother
[14:36] <Darkside> but it becomes hard to tell them apart, partcularly if you lose a few bits
[14:37] <Darkside> so we put start and stop bits around the byte, just like how RS232 works
[14:37] <Reactive> nice link, thanks daveake
[14:37] <Reactive> i'll port it to netduino :)
[14:37] <Darkside> this is called RTTY (Radio TeleType)
[14:37] <daveake> The wiki is essential reading :)
[14:37] <Reactive> Darkside: you mean crc's?
[14:37] <Darkside> since its just carrier, on the ground we use a 'sideband' receiver (SSB) to convert the RF down to audio frequencies
[14:38] <daveake> Darkside obviously doesn't care right now, but it does save us typing in the same advice every time someone new turns up :)
[14:38] <Darkside> which you then feed into dl-fldigi, whcih demodulates the audio tones into data
[14:38] <Darkside> daveake: haha
[14:38] <Darkside> yes
[14:38] <Reactive> apologies :) just nice to chat about if you have any questions that confuse you :)
[14:38] <Darkside> but that page doesnt really tell you waht RTTY is
[14:38] <Darkside> or how it works
[14:38] <Darkside> or how it is demodulated
[14:39] <Reactive> Darkside: the SSB, is that the desktop radio?
[14:39] <daveake> It's a "mode" on the desktop radio
[14:39] <Reactive> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:ft817.jpg?w=400
[14:39] <daveake> See the 2 mode buttons at the top?
[14:39] <daveake> Press one of those till it says USB
[14:39] <Reactive> USB?
[14:39] <daveake> It's something like AM on an AM/FM radio
[14:40] <Reactive> oh, its not a universal serial bus connection then
[14:40] <craag> Upper-SSB or USB for short
[14:40] <daveake> But you *must* have a radio that has USB mode.
[14:40] <daveake> No nothing to do with the bus
[14:40] <craag> Around a loooong time before computer usb ;)
[14:40] <Willdude123> LOHAN looks really cool.
[14:40] <Reactive> so what do I need to hook the 'desktop radio' up to the receiver?
[14:41] <Reactive> actually what do I use as the receiver?
[14:41] <daveake> Audio cable with 3.5mm plug at each end
[14:41] <daveake> The wiki has a list of receivers :p
[14:41] <Willdude123> UpuWork: Are you going to be at the LOHAN launch?
[14:41] <craag> Willdude123: The next one is in Spain isn't it?
[14:41] <Reactive> daveake: where are these wiki links?
[14:42] <daveake> I didn't say there were links :p
[14:42] <HixWork> Reactive, I've linked further up to SDR dongles
[14:42] <daveake> It's not exactly well organised. More of a treasure trove
[14:42] <Reactive> yeah
[14:42] <daveake> But you've got SDR modules at the cheap/deaf end
[14:42] <Reactive> could you give me that receiver list link?
[14:43] <daveake> then the FCD (Funcube Dongle) at around £150
[14:43] <Reactive> is it something connected to the antenna and has a 3.5m jack output to the radio?
[14:43] <HixWork> Reactive, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide?s[]=radio
[14:43] <daveake> Or radio scanners on ebay for £80-£120 - Yupiteru MVT7200, AOR AR8000, ICOM IC-R10 for example
[14:43] <daveake> Or spend £550 on that Yaesu in the pic
[14:43] <Willdude123> craag: Yesh
[14:44] <Willdude123> Reactive: Someonebhere might have a spare one
[14:44] <daveake> The "real" radios produce real audio which goes into the PC through an audio cable
[14:44] <daveake> For the dongles it's all done in software
[14:44] <Reactive> oh, so the radio is hooked up to the antenna, and the audio jack is connected to the sound card on the pc, then the dl-fldigi software does all the decoding etc?
[14:44] <cyclops> yay 16 Energither Lithium Just arrived
[14:45] <daveake> yup
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[14:45] <Reactive> oh sweet
[14:45] <Reactive> ok
[14:45] <Willdude123> Reactive a guy fromn the local radio clug gave me a Yaesu Receiver
[14:45] <Reactive> now we're on the same page
[14:45] <Reactive> so whats the dongle about?
[14:45] <daveake> Alternative to using a real radio
[14:45] <Reactive> Willdude123: have no idea where i'd find something like that locally
[14:45] <HixWork> Reactive, here's a good explaination http://goo.gl/EtDw7A
[14:46] <Willdude123> Reactive where are you based?
[14:46] <Reactive> south africa
[14:46] <cyclops> Guys
[14:46] <Willdude123> Hmm
[14:46] <cyclops> Im going to use arduino, but as the tracker has its own batteries
[14:46] <Reactive> whats SDR stand for?
[14:46] <cyclops> How much current do the arduino needs?
[14:47] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker says
[14:47] <Reactive> cyclops: 300mA?
[14:47] <Reactive> oh
[14:47] <cyclops> voltage
[14:47] <Reactive> what a strange name
[14:47] <HixWork> Reactive, software defined radio
[14:47] <daveake> 300? Nowhere enar
[14:47] <Reactive> cyclops: 7.5 - 12
[14:47] <daveake> near
[14:47] <Willdude123> Google "{0} ham radio club".format(yourlocation) reactive :-)
[14:47] <HixWork> cyclops, my tracker seems to run at ~80mA steady
[14:48] <daveake> That's about average
[14:48] <cyclops> the tracker has its own batts
[14:48] <cyclops> So HixWork only have to power arduino
[14:48] <Reactive> so whats the advantage of using SDR versus hardware?
[14:48] <daveake> Use the same batteries?
[14:48] <daveake> It's only a few mA
[14:48] <cyclops> I might ask upu
[14:48] <cyclops> As the habduino is powered by 2 AA
[14:49] <cyclops> BTW 16 Energizer cost 28pounds
[14:49] <daveake> puch
[14:49] <cyclops> about 34¬
[14:49] <daveake> ouch
[14:49] <HixWork> arduino powers the tracker too
[14:49] <cyclops> And the fack is
[14:49] <cyclops> That if I had bought them here would be like 50¬
[14:49] <daveake> They're normally just over £1 each here
[14:49] <jiffe98> well 2nd launch was a success although the piece holding the camera in place came loose so it receded a bit
[14:49] <cyclops> daveake: add shipping
[14:49] <daveake> yes of course
[14:50] <cyclops> HixWork: I shall ask upu then
[14:50] <Willdude123> Reactive, have you googled "{0} ham radio club".format(yourlocation) ?
[14:50] <Willdude123> :-)
[14:50] <cyclops> daveake: to spain much more expensive
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[14:50] <HixWork> cyclops, it shouldn't be too far off the 80mA mark
[14:50] <daveake> ^^ total
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[14:50] <cyclops> But im concerned about Voltage
[14:50] <cyclops> as 2 AA provide 3V
[14:51] <HixWork> I have a power LED and a GPS LED so that adds some unneccessary current tothe figure
[14:51] <cyclops> And arduino is 7-12v isnt it?
[14:51] <HixWork> I'd say you'll need 4*AA
[14:51] <daveake> Depends on model
[14:51] <daveake> It's annoying that most of them do run 5V logic
[14:51] <Reactive> daveake: what hardware do I need to get SDR running?
[14:52] <daveake> SDR
[14:52] <Reactive> its not just any radio?
[14:52] <cyclops> So HixWork 4 for aduino and 2 tracker
[14:52] <daveake> I linked you earlier http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[14:52] <cyclops> As the tracker does not use the arduino power pin AFAIK
[14:52] <Reactive> oh, sorry
[14:52] <HixWork> cyclops, all powered by the arduino - its a shield remember
[14:52] <Reactive> This is cutting edge and although suitable for testing and tracking the payloads of others it isn't recommended for actual tracking and recovery of your own payload
[14:52] <Reactive> ?
[14:52] <Reactive> do I want to go that route then?
[14:53] <daveake> Like I said, they're relatively deaf
[14:53] <Reactive> i'd prefer a hardware radio anyway, could use it for other stuff
[14:53] <cyclops> BTW I was surprised how light those batteries are
[14:53] <Willdude123> Reactive you found a radio club nr you yet?
[14:53] <cyclops> HixWork: Ill ask Upu when he's here.
[14:53] <daveake> cyclops I got some AAAs last week - 8 for £5
[14:53] <HixWork> lithium is pretty light stuff
[14:53] <Reactive> Willdude123: nope
[14:53] <cyclops> Lucky you daveake
[14:54] <cyclops> But the sellers with that price dont ship to spain
[14:54] <Reactive> does anyone here have a spare radio they're willing to sell?
[14:54] <Willdude123> You need to google "{0} radio club".format(yourlocation)
[14:54] <daveake> Try local radio club or ebay
[14:54] <cyclops> I did, i bought these from ebay
[14:54] <daveake> [14:43] <daveake> Or radio scanners on ebay for £80-£120 - Yupiteru MVT7200, AOR AR8000, ICOM IC-R10 for example
[14:55] <Rom> Hello, quick question can anyone tell me what these are called, they're attached to the gps module http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=img_0880.jpg
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[14:55] <daveake> They hold their price well - when you're done with one, put it back on ebay and get your rmoney back :)
[14:55] <Willdude123> Reactive I got an FCD from someone in here.
[14:55] <Reactive> Rom: that's a ublox breakout board
[14:56] <Reactive> FCD?
[14:56] <cyclops> Reactive: Fun cube dongle pro+
[14:56] <Rom> yeah, but the conical like things attatched to the gps module
[14:56] <daveake> Rom IC Probes
[14:56] <cyclops> Reactive: Its a USB dongle to do SDR
[14:56] <Willdude123> Rom I would have a look but my internet can't load images here
[14:56] <cyclops> But also much more
[14:57] <craag> Rom: Sarantel Helix Antenna
[14:57] <craag> Oh wait
[14:57] <craag> no
[14:57] <cyclops> The funcibe its wonderfull, used it for so many things and not HAB yet :P
[14:57] <Rom> ic probes it is!
[14:57] <daveake> or "Test Hook Clip"
[14:57] <daveake> Yeah the FCD is very good
[14:57] <daveake> The Pro+ better
[14:57] <cyclops> Yes, thanks to It I was sure my camera would harm GPS signal
[14:58] <cyclops> and could test shielding
[14:58] <Reactive> cyclops: should I consider a SDR then?
[14:58] <Willdude123> Hmm how long does parcelforce actually take when they say 1-2 business days?
[14:58] <HixWork> parcelfarce
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[14:58] <cyclops> Reactive: AFAIK the Funcube is more than a SDR and works pretty well
[14:58] <Upu> HixServer
[14:58] <Upu> the shield has a step up on it
[14:58] <Upu> so you can power habduino from 2 x AA
[14:59] <cyclops> Im gonna use it as a tracker
[14:59] <HixWork> "On board step up to permit operation from 2 x AA batteries." cyclops
[14:59] <Willdude123> HixWork: At a 60% discount I don't mind crappy delivery
[14:59] <Rom> thanks people
[14:59] <Upu> because flying 6 cell is dumb(TM)
[14:59] <cyclops> djhasd Cant understand
[14:59] <HixWork> hah UpuWork timing :)
[14:59] <cyclops> A sec
[14:59] <daveake> Yeah 6 is dumb. 18 is much better ....
[14:59] <cyclops> So to power arduino+Habduino only 2AA right?
[14:59] <Upu> lol sounds like Pi to me
[14:59] <HixWork> yes cyclops
[14:59] <daveake> More like LOHAN Mk1 I was thniking
[14:59] <cyclops> Okay
[15:00] <Upu> I know :)
[15:00] <Reactive> daveake: can I use this? http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/107334275/two_way_radio_mobile_Ham_Yaesu_FT_8900R_VHF_UHF_QUAD_BAND.html
[15:00] <cyclops> Cristal
[15:00] <cyclops> clear
[15:00] <Willdude123> Really looking forward to getting a Salae logic, should help quash the depression of coming back off holiday.
[15:00] <cyclops> Awsome Upu
[15:00] <Willdude123> Should probably get a dmm too
[15:00] <Upu> http://imgur.com/a/Q7kdd
[15:00] <Upu> note battery holder
[15:01] <Upu> you should have a DMM well before a Salea Will
[15:01] <Willdude123> Well I guess the logic analyser would do everything a dmm can do.
[15:01] <Upu> err no
[15:01] <cyclops> I thought the Arduino has a separate power source
[15:01] <cyclops> *had
[15:01] <Upu> Arduino has its own regulator
[15:01] <Upu> but its rubbish
[15:01] <Willdude123> Upu: OK
[15:01] <Upu> so I put a better one on
[15:01] <cyclops> awsome upu
[15:02] <cyclops> and to secure the shield to arduino?
[15:02] <Willdude123> I'll order a dmm from maplin so it gets here an hour or so before the Saleae
[15:02] <Willdude123> :-)
[15:02] <Willdude123> Shutl ftw
[15:02] <cyclops> So it does not breaks apart during flight¿
[15:02] <Willdude123> Upu did you see my blog post?
[15:02] <Upu> no will
[15:02] <Willdude123> K
[15:03] <HixWork> cyclops, it slots to the board as a normal shiled would by the looks of the brd file
[15:03] <cyclops> rubber bands or something like that
[15:03] <daveake> Reactive no doesn't do SSB as far as I can tell
[15:03] <Upu> it holds in nicely but pack it in and insulate it well
[15:03] <cyclops> with foam right?
[15:03] <Willdude123> Well you probaly won't care because you know what I've been doing anyway
[15:03] <cyclops> And the GPS antenna on top of the payload
[15:03] <Willdude123> But I included a brief thank you
[15:04] <Upu> http://imgur.com/3lUHtCZ
[15:04] <Upu> if it moves
[15:04] <Upu> it could break so don't let it move
[15:04] <Willdude123> Upu, do you want to read it?
[15:04] <cyclops> I see, so everithing inside the box
[15:04] <Upu> later will sorry busy
[15:04] <HixWork> corcho cyclops :)
[15:05] <cyclops> Yep a lot of corcho HixWork
[15:05] <HixWork> heh
[15:05] <cyclops> Will be buying corcho today
[15:05] <Reactive> daveake: I can't really tell from their site about the SSB, does this handle it? http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=106&encProdID=2804F70E1A8F3C4B638CB8E0F201158C&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0
[15:05] <Reactive> its pretty expensive so i'd hope so
[15:05] <craag> Reactive: I've got one of those, no it doesn't do SSB
[15:05] <cyclops> So HixWork no exteriour antenna right? Only the radio
[15:06] <Willdude123> Upu: Ping me when you're free to discuss the UBX
[15:06] <Reactive> damn
[15:07] <gonzo_> that oen is FM only so no good
[15:07] <craag> Reactive: Any of the FT-8*7 range will do.
[15:07] <gonzo_> you need one that is 'multimode'
[15:07] <craag> FT-817 is the most compact.
[15:08] <Willdude123> Reactive: Please don't swear in the chan
[15:08] <HixWork> cyclops, sorry?
[15:08] <HixWork> missed something there
[15:09] <cyclops> The GPS antenna inside the payload
[15:09] <Upu> yes
[15:09] <HixWork> yes
[15:09] <cyclops> As well as the backup tracker
[15:09] <Willdude123> I have an frg965
[15:09] <cyclops> Well I could put the backup tracker on another ball 1m away of the main tracker
[15:09] <HixWork> what is your backup tracker cyclops
[15:10] <cyclops> a GPS TK 102
[15:10] <HixWork> GSM thing?
[15:10] <cyclops> SMS coords
[15:10] <cyclops> On landing
[15:10] <HixWork> ah ok got you
[15:10] <cyclops> Because HixWork 2 students launched a payload similar to mine
[15:11] <gonzo_> unless you have very good coverage in the landing area, the gsm ones have limited success
[15:11] <cyclops> Costing over 1000¬ and after seaching 3 days they hvnt found
[15:11] <cyclops> Yes gonzo_ i know, thats why I went with SMS
[15:11] <cyclops> I dont want to loose my project
[15:11] <gonzo_> gsm=sms
[15:12] <Willdude123> Is habduino finished?
[15:12] <gonzo_> even in normal coverage areas, try putting your phone on the floor and see how the signal drops
[15:12] <cyclops> Willdude123: But not tested in flight
[15:13] <daveake> cyclops As you may be the only person tracking it, I suggest you do add a GSM backup. Just expect it not to work :p
[15:13] <gonzo_> sms/gsm fine as backup, but always use a proper radio tracker
[15:13] <cyclops> well gonzo_ ill have to risk, as satelital ones are such expensive
[15:13] <cyclops> well daveake I got some people interested on tracking it
[15:13] <cyclops> But ill include Just in case
[15:14] <HixWork> better to have than not
[15:14] <cyclops> will there be any interference problems putting it in the main payload?
[15:14] <Willdude123> Is rockblock any good?
[15:14] <gonzo_> if at least one works then you have won
[15:14] <HixWork> kraken uses one Willdude123
[15:15] <HixWork> i don't believe so cyclops I'm sure cuddykid uses a similar item
[15:15] <cyclops> Nice!
[15:15] <cyclops> Rockblock 200¬
[15:15] <Willdude123> Hm
[15:15] <HixWork> plus data packages
[15:15] <cyclops> 10¬/month
[15:16] <cyclops> + credits for transmissions
[15:17] <cyclops> ill be using a cheap one of ebay
[15:17] <cyclops> gsm
[15:18] <cyclops> http://goo.gl/LCsUTm
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[15:21] <cyclops> I hope main tracker works
[15:21] <cyclops> So no need to use that
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[15:24] <Willdude123> Upu can a be a hab supplies affiliate?
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[15:26] <Willdude123> If I should have a dmm before a logic ana
[15:26] <Willdude123> lyser, should I just order the dmm to arrive a few hours earlier?
[15:28] <HixWork> I think he was getting at the point that basics should be checked before delving into the logic
[15:30] <Willdude123> Well
[15:30] <Willdude123> It should work
[15:30] <Willdude123> It did work
[15:30] <HixWork> ?
[15:30] <Willdude123> I did check that the circuit worked
[15:31] <HixWork> I think it was a general thing not specific. You should have a DMM way before logic, imho
[15:31] <Willdude123> Both will help, I think
[15:32] <HixWork> sure
[15:32] <HixWork> one is essential, one is a nice to have
[15:32] <Willdude123> I think i willgetboth
[15:33] <HixWork> well you've ordered the Salea so you should really get the DMM
[15:33] <Willdude123> I haven't
[15:33] <Willdude123> Yet
[15:33] <HixWork> purely so you dont end up putting too many volts into the Salea
[15:34] <HixWork> but DMM is great for just basics like continuity checks etc
[15:34] <Willdude123> Yep although there are safeguards by the lpoks of it
[15:35] <Willdude123> And where would said volts come from? The highest voltage thing I have for the tracker is 5v
[15:35] <HixWork> not talking specifically - generally
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[15:36] <cyclops> Wanna follow my project in twitter? and learn a bit of spanish :P https://twitter.com/AlEspacius
[15:36] <HixWork> Si
[15:37] <cyclops> :D
[15:37] <cyclops> Eso está muy bien HixWork
[15:38] <craag> Would be cool if you could wire google translate into twitter.
[15:38] <craag> Hmm perhaps we need @AlEspaciusUK that just tweets google-translated versions of your tweets cyclops!
[15:39] <craag> (I'm not much of a human languages person)
[15:39] <HixWork> if you view the twitter page in chrome you have option to translate
[15:39] <HixWork> I like human languages - shame programming doesn't work as well
[15:40] <craag> HixWork: So you do....
[15:40] Action: craag facepalms
[15:40] <craag> Doesn't work amazingly
[15:40] <craag> "If you have a radio and antenna capable of operating in the 434Mhz not hesitate to pass for the web to continue the probe!"
[15:40] <HixWork> spanglish
[15:41] <cyclops> em
[15:41] <cyclops> Gimme a sec and ill create the english version
[15:41] <craag> cyclops: Don't worry about ti!
[15:42] <cyclops> Well you have the most recent info here :P
[15:42] <craag> Yeah, and I have tried to learn spanish in the past, so I can pretty much get all of it with automatic google translate.
[15:44] <craag> Erm google is now translating everything on twitter..
[15:44] <cyclops> Nice
[15:44] <mfa298> Willdude123: just because you feed 5v into a system that doesn't mean the highest voltage you get out will be 5v (I feed 12v into my radio, on the RF output path some components have to be rated for many kV although that is slightly more specialised)
[15:44] <cyclops> The difficultness of spanish is due to all the verb tenses
[15:44] <craag> Well it would be nice, but it's translated some english into gibberish..
[15:45] <Willdude123> Right
[15:45] <cyclops> Just search in Google "Conjugacion verbo amar"
[15:45] <Willdude123> mfa298: The highest voltage the arduino can provide is 5v though
[15:46] <HixWork> how do you KNOW that unless you check.....
[15:46] <Willdude123> Well true point so I'll get one.
[15:46] <HixWork> craag, gibberish is Gibraltar? ;)
[15:47] <craag> Willdude123: I recently got a 12V PSU out of the cupboard that the regulator had blown up in, it was providing 20V on the output... very lucky I checked with the DMM before plugging in my 250 quid radio!
[15:47] <craag> HixWork: It had translated 'about' in an english tweet to 'acerca'
[15:47] <craag> But only that word...
[15:47] <mfa298> it's when you look at the voltage over something like an electromagnet with a scope you realise that a simple compent (a coil of wire) can produce some pretty nasty voltage spikes
[15:48] <Willdude123> Can I use an arduino to comntrol and power a 5v fan?
[15:48] <HixWork> craag, heh google not as smart as it thinks
[15:48] <Willdude123> *12v
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> It's not the wire! It's the magnets!
[15:48] <craag> HixWork: Can't find how to switch it off now...
[15:49] Action: SpeedEvil needs to get his 100kV PSU built.
[15:49] <HixWork> settings languages craag ?
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> Everyone has seen the mikeselectricstuff link on ultrasonic levitation? It's really quite insaely awesone.
[15:49] <HixWork> I'm not trying it in case I get it too
[15:49] <cyclops> lol
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[15:50] <cyclops> just paste the tweet in google translator
[15:50] <cyclops> easy way
[15:51] <cyclops> Yay, nothing left to order, everything already at home or on its way :D
[15:51] <HixWork> or come up with your own interpretation
[15:51] <craag> SpeedEvil: I have a 2.6KV 600mA PSU under the desk.. :D
[15:51] <cyclops> Its not as hard as it seems :P
[15:51] <craag> Albeit in a box with some glass tubes.
[15:51] <daveake> craag I'd want it further away than that :)
[15:51] <HixWork> reading is the easy bit - its listening to spanish breakneck speed thats hard
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> craag: Annoyingly, I can't find anywhere a nice figure for V/m of a 10mA arc far from the electrodes.
[15:52] Action: SpeedEvil wants to make a _big_ jacobs ladder/plasma speaker.
[15:52] <cyclops> Lol yeah, spanish speedy talking
[15:52] <HixWork> 320Km/h
[15:53] <craag> SpeedEvil: In dry air ~30kV/cm gives you breakdown, as humidity rises, that falls massively.
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> craag: Yes, I'm not really interested in that figure - which is readily available.
[15:53] <HixWork> craag, is that why powerlines hum and crackle on humid days?
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> craag: But the steady state - which I've been utterly unable to find.
[15:53] <craag> steady state?
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> craag: IOW - if I have a 100kv/10mA supply - how long an arc can I have stable on a jacobs ladder before it goes out
[15:54] <craag> So you need to keep a pathway in the air at plasma temperature..
[15:55] <craag> Too many variables from what I can tell (air movement, etc), but not my area of expertise.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Yeah. But I'm surprised I can find nothing.
[15:56] <craag> Well, you'll have to investigate :)
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> Need to build it first :)
[15:57] <cyclops> Yay total 900¬ spent on first launch
[15:57] <craag> I built a tiny one out of the psu from a smashed plasma ball when I was in school
[15:58] <craag> Got 3cm spark at the top
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> cyclops: That's rather a lot.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> craag: :)
[15:58] <mfa298> i know within a xeon arc bulb it's a fairly low dc running voltage once the arc is established (around 30v) but that's a fairly short distance (~1cm) and a much more controlled environment - The light inside a Cinema Projector
[15:58] <cyclops> SpeedEvil: not if you have to buy everithing and want a payload cam
[15:58] <cyclops> Having no receiver
[15:59] <craag> SpeedEvil: My claim to fame with that though was taping it up in a small package with 2x 9V batteries in parallel and a pushbutton, and using it as a cigarette lighter!
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[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> And not at all as an improvised taser.
[16:02] <craag> Worked spectacularly and made a great noise as it lit instantly.
[16:03] <craag> haha no
[16:08] <Willdude123> That so reminda me of this time on my gap yah. I was working with the UBX and NTX2 with an uno.
[16:08] <Willdude123> Then I just chundered everywah
[16:09] <craag> lol
[16:09] <craag> I was qutie stupid back then, that was probably one of the few things I managed *not* to electrocute myself with.
[16:10] <Willdude123> Were you on the
[16:10] <Willdude123> lash the night befpre
[16:10] <Willdude123> ?
[16:10] <Willdude123> beofre
[16:10] <Willdude123> *before
[16:10] <daveake> It's all good training
[16:11] <craag> No, it was a posh boarding school, alcohol forbidden!
[16:11] <daveake> Makes a change from the usual methods of inflicting pain then, I guess
[16:12] <craag> hehe, my boarding house had a pair of crossed-canes as a logo
[16:12] <craag> The last place in the uk to give up the use of it!
[16:12] <cyclops> YES got an antenna in SPain!
[16:12] <craag> Long before I arrived there though luckily
[16:12] <craag> We just had to shine the senior's shoes :)
[16:12] <cyclops> 300km away from launch but its a start
[16:14] <x-f> ooh, F1ABL is a new one, too, i think
[16:14] <craag> cyclops: great :)
[16:15] <cyclops> yeah craag i thought ill be alone :P
[16:16] Action: HixWork just had the horrible realisation that he has ordered £230 worth of the wrong car part - non-returnable
[16:16] <HixWork> arse
[16:16] <craag> cyclops: Might be worth trying Ham ATV sites/mailing lists, they tend to have 70cm SSB setups.
[16:17] <craag> HixWork: ouch
[16:17] <cyclops> I allready contacte some amateur radio sites ill do that too
[16:17] <HixWork> ouch indeed
[16:17] <craag> The ATV hams also tend to be a little more adventurous in my experience.
[16:18] <cyclops> perfcet then
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[16:22] <cyclops> Getting more people interested in forums yay!
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[16:27] <Willdude123> craag: Atv sounds very interesting?
[16:27] <Willdude123> Meant to be a full stop
[16:28] <daveake> cyclops Something for you to consider ... send up a tracker with a small balloon, and no cameras, to test your tracker and to give your hams something to practice with.
[16:29] <daveake> Then do it for real with cameras etc
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[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Or a really cheap tiny camera
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[16:32] <daveake> <daveake> cyclops Something for you to consider ... send up a tracker with a small balloon, and no cameras, to test your tracker and to give your hams something to practice with.
[16:32] <daveake> <daveake> Then do it for real with cameras etc
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[16:33] <daveake> <SpeedEvil> Or a really cheap tiny camera
[16:33] <cyclops> daveake: I dont think I have the balloon nor the possibility to do that
[16:34] <cyclops> but ill try+
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> <daveake> cyclops Something for you to consider ... send up a tracker with a small balloon, and no cameras, to test your tracker and to give your hams something to practice with.
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> <daveake> <daveake> Then do it for real with cameras etc
[16:35] <mfa298> Willdude123: I think ATV can be a lot more interesting as there's a lot more having to make stuff yourself and some real experimentation going on.
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[16:36] <cyclops> afk
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[16:44] <craag> Willdude123: It's one of the bits of amateur radio that is really thriving, as getting a decent tv picture from A to B is still quite difficult even with the internet!
[16:45] <craag> And there's lot of advancement still happenning with DVB-T2 and H.265 and the like
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[16:45] <craag> It does get quite technically complex though, not the easiest to get into.
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[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> Hi. I need to find a capacitor of 0.33uF. What is this likely to look like?
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> Or say on it
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[17:07] <ibanezmatt13> Can this thing: http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/22634/STMICROELECTRONICS/L7805CV.html regulate 9v down to 5v?
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure how to configure it to get 5v
[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> nevermind, just seen a video which may explain it
[17:12] <daveake> Yes that's what it's for
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[17:24] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: sorted it
[17:28] <daveake> cool
[17:38] <x-f> anybody knows, at what altitude a 100g balloon can float?
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[17:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[17:40] <x-f> evening
[17:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: i've hot Your email tkanks
[17:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: later on i was posted to UKHAS, but no one was in range :-(
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[17:42] <x-f> yeah :/
[17:42] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, any ideas, at what altitude it could be floating?
[17:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> above 20 km or so
[17:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> it was hwoyee 100g really underfilled :-)
[17:44] <x-f> it could have stopped transmitting yesterday because the sun was getting low?
[17:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes, it has no other power source than solar panel
[17:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/solarpico1.jpg
[17:47] <x-f> nice, what was the weight?
[17:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> 38 grams _before_ removing AAA battery (i havent enough helium to lift it) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/solarpico2.jpg
[17:51] <x-f> AAA is 7.6g
[17:51] <x-f> quite impressive :)
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[17:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> well, far from Leo's Pico :-)
[17:59] <x-f> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/13571_trj001.gif
[17:59] <x-f> not sure, where it actually went
[18:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have attached label with my e-mail address and phone number, maybe someone, sometime will find it :-)
[18:01] <x-f> oh, i hope we will hear about it then!
[18:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> in this case in eeprom is recorded max altitude and position :-)
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[18:54] <Steve_2E0VET> upu ping
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[18:56] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Permission to upload telemetry to habitat?
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: Would I be allowed to upload test telemetry to habitat?
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[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> SpeedEvil: Would it be ok to upload some test telemetry to habitat for a bit?
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not really sure who to ask
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> I can give you a definitive answer on that.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Not me.
[19:02] Action: SpeedEvil isn't awake at the moment, and has nothing to do with it.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> Good luck.
[19:03] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok. Thanks
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[19:03] <SpeedEvil> May your test payload be wildly successfull, and land in a tree.
[19:04] Action: daveake wakes up
[19:05] <daveake> I suppose that's about as risky as flying a "theoritical" [sic] payload
[19:07] <fsphil> I launch those all the time
[19:08] <daveake> How many theoritical notams have you had now?
[19:09] <daveake> Or do they all burst at 1.8m diameter?
[19:09] <fsphil> 1.98m
[19:09] <daveake> nice
[19:09] <fsphil> pretend DM said that was fine
[19:10] <daveake> Ask him about doing a UAV then
[19:10] <fsphil> even imagining that is probably illegal
[19:10] <daveake> lol
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> It's legal as long as you send up a specially trained bee as a pilot.
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[19:39] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[19:40] <Willdude123> Ah good the ads on my blog are working
[19:41] <Willdude123> http://willdover.co.uk how does it look? I'm not asking you to click the ads but if something you're interesred in comes up then by all means, look at it.
[19:42] <Willdude123> Unfortunately it doesn't look great on tablets.
[19:43] Action: SpeedEvil is not clicking random sites because he has about 50 meg to go till tomorrow.
[19:45] <Willdude123> Oh but it's a good blog
[19:45] <Willdude123> 3g or something?
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> My DSL got hit by lightning.
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> (On the exchange side)
[19:46] <fsphil> we had some lovely storms here today
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> Same here today
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> It's noticable how annoying many websites are with no images
[19:47] <Willdude123> I have no images
[19:48] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQWvHtxCAAAr6Cy.jpg:large
[19:48] <Willdude123> Which is good, since it's about 20-100k internet here. Seriously there is lag in my typing
[19:49] <fsphil> use a real irc client. it's more better over a laggy line
[19:50] <mfa298> or use mosh (although I'm not sure how good it is on android)
[19:50] <fsphil> mosh doesn't like nat
[19:51] <fsphil> most mobile providers use that :(
[19:51] <mfa298> I've used it on from my netbook over 3g although the other end is on a real address.
[19:51] <mfa298> /29 on my adsl ftw
[19:52] <fsphil> yea I've got that too, still wouldn't work for me
[19:52] <fsphil> what network?
[19:52] <Willdude123> fsphil: It was a pain because it kept timing out
[19:52] <fsphil> possible I did something wrong
[19:52] <fsphil> I'd love to use mosh when chasing, as the connection comes and goes
[19:52] <mfa298> three for 3g (through a 3g wifi point so had nat there)
[19:52] <fsphil> would save a lot of hassle
[19:52] <fsphil> ah so it will work
[19:52] <mfa298> I think you might have to open up holes of the server end.
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Quasseldroid
[19:53] <fsphil> I had -- though possibly wrong. my PCs all have public IP addresses
[19:53] <fsphil> and I had iptables configured, I think, correctly
[19:53] <mfa298> mosh is the reason my old netbook mostly runs linux for chassing
[19:53] <mfa298> you also need the mosh binary on the server side
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[19:55] <Willdude123> Mosh has no android client
[19:55] <mfa298> there's an experimental port of mosh listed on the website.
[19:56] <Willdude123> K
[19:56] <Willdude123> Is it just ssh but faster?
[19:56] <mfa298> but you'll also need to install and configure mosh on the server as well so it might not be the easiest thing thing to do from where you are.
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> I use quasseldroid.
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> Works for me.
[19:57] <mfa298> mosh sets itself up over ssh and then runs the connection over a udp session so copes with bad connections. - Great when chasing when the 3g keeps dropping out (much better than constantly restarting putty)
[19:58] <fsphil> and awiting for the previous one to die
[19:58] <fsphil> which occasionally locks up screen
[19:58] <mfa298> that as well.
[19:58] <mfa298> and usually the new ssh session dies before screen managed to recover :(
[19:59] <fsphil> yep!
[19:59] <fsphil> I'll give mosh another spin
[19:59] <fsphil> there is a good signal in most places in NI, but there's lots of random blank spots on the roads
[20:00] <fsphil> don't launch in national parks either -- no signal at all :)
[20:01] <mfa298> craag and myself have found the one about national parks. We just about got signal on one dongle with it ~7m up a pole (and nothing on the other)
[20:01] <fsphil> good idea
[20:01] <fsphil> I have a pole for that now too, must remember it
[20:02] <fsphil> where I launch here though I can use good wifi
[20:02] <fsphil> for my own launches
[20:02] <Willdude123> So you use ssh and irssi to talk on irc while chasing?
[20:02] <fsphil> really nice being able to VNC to the home PC and get gqrx and dl-fldigi on the signal straight after launch
[20:02] <fsphil> takes a little bit of pressure of at the launch site
[20:03] <fsphil> I normally use x-chat
[20:03] <fsphil> but will definitly try mosh again
[20:03] <Willdude123> What is there to configure in mosh? SSH on my server just works outta the box
[20:04] <mfa298> Willdude123: I use mosh and irssi (mosh replaces ssh)
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[20:05] <mfa298> you need to open up ports on the server for mosh and install it on the server. It's a replacement for ssh (just uses ssh to setup the session and then ssh isn't needed)
[20:06] <mfa298> you can see our attempt at 3G in the new forest on http://photos.suws.org.uk/index.php?album=outings/new-forest-26th-may-2013&image=p1010685.jpg (the mast attached to the blue car)
[20:10] <Upu> ping KT5TK
[20:10] <Upu> oh hey LeoBodnar
[20:10] <Willdude123> Can I keep ssh up?
[20:10] <Willdude123> Except I can't due to the internet here :-)
[20:11] <mfa298> Willdude123: with mosh you don't need ssh most of the time. ssh is just a protocol to connect to a unix machine.
[20:11] <Willdude123> ping Upu about the UBX
[20:11] <mfa298> you could install telnet and use that instead of ssh (but don't it's totally insecure)
[20:11] <Upu> HI Will whats up ?
[20:12] <Willdude123> What are we doing about it? I mean the 5v board worked with 3v3 but there was a dogy connection someone.
[20:12] <Willdude123> *somewhere
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[20:14] <Upu> eh ?
[20:14] <Upu> oh that
[20:14] <Upu> are you back from holiday yet ?
[20:14] <Benny_Boy> hello
[20:14] <Benny_Boy> I have a question about my NTX2 transmitter
[20:15] <Upu> shoot
[20:15] <Benny_Boy> The sticker on my NTX2 says 434.075, but when I look for a signal in SDR# the spike is at 434.049
[20:15] <Willdude123> Nope
[20:15] <Upu> its likely the SDR isn't calibrated correctly
[20:15] <Benny_Boy> This is definitly me as when I cut the power it disappears
[20:16] <Upu> thats probably about 434.073 in reality
[20:16] <Willdude123> Still in Turkey
[20:16] <Upu> SDR Sharp ?
[20:16] <Benny_Boy> how does that work?
[20:16] <Benny_Boy> yes, SDR Sharp
[20:17] <Upu> ok
[20:17] <Upu> check shift
[20:17] <Upu> then type in 24000
[20:17] <Upu> I think
[20:17] <Upu> that offsets the frequency
[20:18] <Upu> play round with that until your signal is about ~ 434.073
[20:18] <Benny_Boy> got it
[20:18] <Benny_Boy> shift worked
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[20:19] <Upu> the best way to actually calibrate it
[20:19] <Upu> is get someone with a proper radio to see what frequency its actually on
[20:19] <Upu> but you won't be too far out there
[20:20] <fsphil> I use an FM radio station
[20:20] <fsphil> one that talks a lot, so you can see the carrier when it's silent
[20:20] <fsphil> radio 4 is good
[20:20] <mfa298> I've used the local air traffic control to calibrate
[20:20] <Willdude123> Hmm not on debian repo
[20:20] <Willdude123> Cba to clone and compile
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[20:22] <Laurenceb_> http://judgybitch.com/2013/07/29/policing-twitter-is-dumb/
[20:22] <mfa298> the better setting to correct the frequency is probably the ppm setting (or possibly a combination of ppm and shift)
[20:23] <Willdude123> Also Upu do you mind readimg my blog post?
[20:23] <Upu> in a bit Willdude123 sorry quite busy
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[20:23] <EA4FRD> hello
[20:23] <Willdude123> Nps
[20:23] <Willdude123> Hi
[20:24] <mfa298> Hello EA4FRD
[20:24] Action: fsphil is going to try getting gqrx + fcd++ working again... I may be some time
[20:25] Action: mfa298 wishes fsphil good luck
[20:25] <mfa298> and if there's success hopes theres documentation or rpms of how to make it work
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[20:26] <mfa298> well that was a short visit for EA4FRD
[20:26] <fsphil> would be nice to just "yum install gqrx"
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[20:27] <cyclops> hi!
[20:27] <Upu> hey cyclops
[20:28] <cyclops> Hey Upu, one antenna in Spain ;P
[20:28] <fsphil> yay!
[20:28] <mfa298> if you manage some reasonable instructions for gprx I might be able to convert that into a spec file - I've started playing the create rpm's game.
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL http://lifeofastrangerwhostolemyphone.tumblr.com/
[20:28] <fsphil> spec files are sometimes quite nice -- it really depends on the software being packaged
[20:28] <fsphil> some software just isn't designed for it
[20:30] <Upu> its a start cyclops
[20:30] <Upu> :)
[20:30] <mfa298> I need to finish getting my build setup sorted. I managed to install random stuff all over a temporary build machine with one of those not so nice bits of software
[20:30] Action: fsphil fails at the first hurdle -- gr-fcdproplus won't find gnuradio
[20:31] <cyclops> Just got some followers and people are showing interest
[20:31] <Upu> speak to SP9UOB-Tom
[20:31] <Upu> we had no listeners in Poland
[20:31] <mfa298> I'm guessing that's a newer install of gnuradio than the one with fedora
[20:31] <Upu> then he went recruiting
[20:31] <fsphil> fedora has 3.6.5
[20:32] <fsphil> I hit some really odd errors getting an RPM of 3.7
[20:33] <Willdude123> Upu Are you going to be the sole distributor of the habduino?
[20:33] <Upu> very good Willdude123 thanks for the name check. Don't forget to link it from the projects page on UKHAS wiki if you haven't already
[20:33] <mfa298> I've only tried the fedora packaged version of gnuradio on fc18 so far (and created an rpm for gr-fcdproplus)
[20:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: now there is lots of receivers in Poland, and some HAB projects :-)
[20:34] <mfa298> need to have a go at 3.7 at some point.
[20:34] <Upu> I know you did well recruiting
[20:34] <fsphil> you got gr-fcdproplus compiled?
[20:34] <Upu> Willdude123 well its open source I can't stop people making it
[20:34] <fsphil> already beating me :)
[20:34] <Upu> I saw SP3OSJ's tracker SP9UOB-Tom
[20:34] <mfa298> that's against the fedora version of gnuradio on fc18
[20:34] <fsphil> package 'gnuradio-runtime' not found (on F19)
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: your code based
[20:35] <Upu> Oh is that the one who "stole" my payload name ? :)
[20:38] <mfa298> I've not played much with 19 yet (so you're ahead of me on that front).
[20:38] <Willdude123> Upu does that mean I can sell it for less than you? Assuming I can build it cheaper?
[20:38] <fsphil> it's probably something simple
[20:39] <Willdude123> Upu will do, can I participate in your affiliate program?
[20:39] <Upu> I don't have an affiliate program
[20:39] <cyclops> diner time
[20:39] <Willdude123> Upu your site says you do :-)
[20:40] <Upu> just a feature of Opencart
[20:40] <Willdude123> Ah ok
[20:40] <fsphil> mfa298: ah it's looking for gnuradio-3.7
[20:40] <Willdude123> I'm useless with wordpress.
[20:40] <fsphil> not going to be able to avoid this
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[20:41] <Willdude123> I can't even figure out how to display a custom sidebar
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[20:44] <mfa298> ah looking at my spec file I did it end of may so that would be before any 3.7 changes
[20:44] <fsphil> yea
[20:44] <Willdude123> Upu do you wamt me to link to the store?
[20:45] <mfa298> if it's of help here's the srpm for fc18 with older sources http://hab.yapd.net/repo/Fedora/18/SRPMS/gr-fcdproplus-0.1-1.fc18.src.rpm
[20:45] <fsphil> my problem with gnuradio is probably a simple one, but it takes SOOO long to compile it that even small changes take a long time to test
[20:45] <fsphil> thanks mfa298, if I get 3.7 installed I'll try that spec
[20:46] <mfa298> I copied the spec file into the folder above as well, but the srpm should have the source I used - although no doubt that's got other bugs in it being so early
[20:46] <fsphil> there is a rc0 spec file for 3.7
[20:46] <fsphil> that's the one I'm basing it on
[20:46] <fsphil> so I'm not sure why it won't work
[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> Well... i have 31.7 °C in my room it will be hard night
[20:46] <fsphil> ooch SP9UOB-Tom
[20:46] <fsphil> it's a bit cooler here now
[20:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> and the storm is comming: http://www.industry.siemens.com/services/global/de/blids/service/spion/Seiten/spion_pl.aspx
[20:47] <fsphil> watching that here: http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&subpage_0=10
[20:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> oh it was down a while ago
[20:47] <fsphil> there is more forecast tomorrow for here
[20:48] <fsphil> I've seen more lightning the past week than I have in a few years
[20:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> the weather is more extreme than, when i was a child
[20:49] <fsphil> the biggest thunderstorm NI has had was in the 80s
[20:49] <fsphil> it hasn't been beaten yet
[20:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> last winter i saw thunderstorm in january it was really strange
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[20:51] <fsphil> I read a paper on it once, they called it an "anomalously severe thunderstorm"
[20:52] <fsphil> 1985
[20:52] <fsphil> it lasted about 24 hours
[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> really long as for thunderstorm
[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway i still want to launch a balloon direct into thunderstorm
[20:54] <fsphil> I'd just like to have one launched naer it
[20:54] <fsphil> with a video camera
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[20:55] <Willdude123> Should do a flight so it goes very near a plane.
[20:55] <fsphil> er, no
[20:55] <Willdude123> LOHAN could so do a flyby of a passenger plane
[20:55] <Willdude123> Video would be awesome though
[20:56] <fsphil> I refer to my previous statement
[20:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, i have to ground my antennas and get really cold shower
[20:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
[20:58] <fsphil> g'nite!
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[20:58] <fsphil> isn't grounding the antenna the worse thing you can do?
[20:58] <Willdude123> fsphil which one?
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[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> good evening :)
[21:23] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> We've been designing our box this evening and we've come up with a real nice design. However, for it to work, there's on thing I need to know about the coax cable for the 1/4 wave antenna. I know that the 164mm part of the coax with the braid and outer shielding removed has to stay as it is and that the 4 radials have to be attached to the top of that. However, the part that goes into the box which still has the insulation
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[21:27] <daveake> What's the actual question?
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> Basicallu
[21:27] <ibanezmatt13> The bit of coax after the trimmed bit (the bit with the SMA on it), can that be any length?
[21:27] <daveake> Basically, doesn't matter.
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[21:35] <fsphil> hah
[21:35] <fsphil> there's an art to asking questions :)
[21:35] <fsphil> I've not quite mastered that myself
[21:36] <fsphil> or answering them
[21:36] <fsphil> hmm
[21:36] <ibanezmatt13> Evening fsphil :P
[21:36] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
[21:37] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[21:38] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[21:38] <fsphil> I suppose it is ibanezmatt13 :)
[21:38] <fsphil> dark tonight
[21:39] <fsphil> winter is coming! </stark>
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[21:39] <ibanezmatt13> indeed; I much prefer summer personally
[21:40] <fsphil> I like both
[21:40] <daveake> I'd like the light without too much of the heat
[21:40] <fsphil> never thought I'd complain about the heat here
[21:40] <daveake> That said, my window has blackout blinds and I have an A/C behind me
[21:41] <daveake> I need a calendar to know if it's summer or not :p
[21:41] <fsphil> we used to have ACs at work, they sold them all when they got a new system installed
[21:41] <fsphil> they offered me one and I said no
[21:41] <daveake> doh
[21:41] <fsphil> aye
[21:42] <fsphil> "when I ever going to need that?!"
[21:42] <fsphil> +am
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Today, AC is getting good enough it's cheaper than gas.
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> The good ones have COP of over five above 0c outsode
[21:42] <fsphil> electricity prices here recently increased quite a bit
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Gas has too though
[21:43] <fsphil> an AC would be expensive to run
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> One fifth of the price of electricity is cheaper than gas.
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> Does a 9v battery exist that's like one of those button cell ones that can handle enough current to power an ATTINY85 with a few potentiometers and an LED? Random question :)
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly, you,re looking at £900 or so for a 4kw output unit.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Why 9v?
[21:45] <fsphil> the unit I was offered was 800W
[21:45] <fsphil> which isn't great but better than nothing
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> That 900 can repay quite fast in energy savings if you're on oil though
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> omfg
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> newsnight is feeding the trollz
[21:45] <fsphil> I must work out if oil is cheaper than electricity now that the prices have all changed
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> a three course luxury meal...
[21:45] <ibanezmatt13> well, I followed this daft tutorial to get one of those TO220 regs to output 5v SpeedEvil
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> From 9
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> ibanezmatt13: is it called a datahseet?
[21:46] <daveake> tutorial? 9V in 5V out.
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: no
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> daft I know
[21:46] <daveake> It's the simplest thing this side of Blue Peter
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what - lack of data here.
[21:47] <ibanezmatt13> I just need a battery and reg setup to power a little chip...
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> newsnight has a "trolling special"
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> On trolling?
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Wasn't that 'brass eye'
[21:48] <Steve_2E0VET> is that like dogging lol
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> :-)
[21:48] <daveake> That was Top Gear
[21:49] <Steve_2E0VET> someon ehad to lower the tone lol
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> hahaha
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> it is looking like a rerun of brass eye
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Going to carparks and secluded roads at strange hours - sounds like hab to me.
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[21:52] <Steve_2E0VET> where abouts a upcoming launches announced
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> we should do a launch from "the canoe"
[21:52] <fsphil> usually the ukhas mailing list Steve_2E0VET
[21:52] <cyclops> hi!"
[21:52] <fsphil> there used to be a wiki page on upcoming launches, but it's not used these days
[21:52] <fsphil> mailing list is handier
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[21:57] <Steve_2E0VET> ok thanks
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[22:18] <Steve_2E0VET> does anyone know where to buy mini usb sockets
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[22:18] <zyp> I tend to buy them from digikey
[22:19] <zyp> like all other parts
[22:19] <Steve_2E0VET> thanks i will take a look
[22:20] <Steve_2E0VET> are they US or UK
[22:23] <fsphil> cpc prolly have them too
[22:23] <Steve_2E0VET> i'm am having difficulty finding them are they just called mini usb sockets
[22:23] <Steve_2E0VET> farnells would be good, im going there tomoz
[22:23] <fsphil> farnell is cpc, more or less
[22:25] <Steve_2E0VET> my daughter has bust her android, so hoping i can just solder a new socket on
[22:26] <fsphil> mini or micro?
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> lol newsnight
[22:26] <fsphil> terrible naming scheme
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> they got into a live on air trolling session with "lordlulz"
[22:26] <Steve_2E0VET> micro i guess
[22:29] <fsphil> if you search for MICRO USB SMD you'll find loads on farnell
[22:29] <fsphil> but finding one that's a match for the broken one is going to be the trick
[22:29] <fsphil> they're all a bit different
[22:29] <Steve_2E0VET> yeah its always the same
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[22:32] <Steve_2E0VET> right time for bed,
[22:32] <fsphil> nite!
[22:32] <Steve_2E0VET> byeeeeeeeeeeee
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[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
[23:02] <DL7AD> hi
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[23:10] <ibanezmatt13> Anybody awake?
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[23:12] <fsphil> no
[23:14] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better get off to bed then.
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[23:21] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
[23:23] <DL7AD> hm....
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[00:00] --- Tue Jul 30 2013