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[00:07] <mfa298> you might need launch permission from someone, for spacenear.us you need a payload doc and a flight doc (the flight doc needs to be approved)
[00:09] <cyclops> flight doc?
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[00:10] <cyclops> Cant find anything in the wiki
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[00:26] <cyclops> well, guys time to go
[00:26] <cyclops> Night!
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[00:37] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK_QRL: around?
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[02:48] <nigelvh> Evening.
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[05:16] <Willdude123> Hi
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[07:11] <G0TDJ_Steve> Hellloooooo!
[07:13] <G0TDJ_Steve> Anyone going to Waters & Stanton's open day today at Hockley?
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[08:04] <RocketBoy> wot no flights today - people are slacking
[08:04] <Upu> lol
[08:04] <Upu> I know
[08:05] <mfa298> it's been ages since the last Leo flight. Everyone must have DomEX withdrawl symptoms by now
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[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> Morning :)
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[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> Using an ICSP header, is it possible to upload a bootloader onto the atmega328?
[08:13] <ibanezmatt13> with an external programmer
[08:14] <Darkside> of course
[08:14] <Darkside> arduino does that
[08:14] <Upu> but you don't need too ibanezmatt13
[08:14] <Upu> because all the Arduino boot loader does is allow you to program via USB which you don't have anyway
[08:14] <Darkside> tools -> burn bootloader
[08:15] <Darkside> yeah
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[08:15] <Darkside> Upu: though with arduino burning the bootloader flashes the fuses correctly
[08:15] <Darkside> a normal upload of a program doesnt do that
[08:15] <Darkside> so i burn the bootloader, then burn my program
[08:15] <Upu> yeah you will do the fuses in ATMEL Studio
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[08:16] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: With the ICSP header I'm putting onto the board, will I be able to use another Arduino with that header to upload my scketches?
[08:19] <charolastra> from one atmel chip to another?
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[08:20] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that not possible?
[08:20] <Upu> yes you can use another Arduino but I would suggest you get the programmer
[08:21] <Upu> not that one
[08:21] <Upu> https://www.olimex.com/Products/AVR/Programmers/AVR-ISP500/
[08:21] <Upu> that one
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> I could do with a programmer actually
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[08:22] <Upu> afk
[08:22] <daveake> I have this works well http://cpc.farnell.com/atmel/atavrisp2/programmer-avr-mcu-isp/dp/SC09561?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range
[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> looks good too
[08:24] <mfa298> I've got the same as daveake, comes with a CD with all the datasheets on it as well (lots of bed time reading) - although you can also get the datasheets direct from atmel's site.
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> that's quite handy
[08:26] <mfa298> The other ones should be as good and probably a lot cheaper though.
[08:27] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, so long as it does the job I'm not too fussed :)
[08:29] <mfa298> When I say CD I might actually mean DVD (the folder that I copied the CD contents into is 5GB, the datasheets for the 8bit AVR's is 700MB)
[08:30] <Darkside> +1 on the AVRISPMK2
[08:31] <charolastra> you can easily and very cheaply build a programmer yourself
[08:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> morning all :-)
[08:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have just finished my solar-pico variation ;-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/solarpico1.jpg
[08:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> with lithium backup :-) http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/solarpico2.jpg
[08:35] <KT5TK> Very nice job! How do the solar cells work with your tracker?
[08:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: this is yout MAX7 and (if i have enough helium) will fly today :-)
[08:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> KT5TK: wait a minute, i sketch schematics for Ypu
[08:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> KT5TK: wait a minute, i sketch schematics for You
[08:38] <KT5TK> So the battery is in action when the solar cells do not deliver sufficient power?
[08:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> schematic is uploading
[08:40] <craag> So your one of the people who've bought all anthony's MAX7s..
[08:40] Action: craag shakes fist at SP9UOB-Tom
[08:40] <craag> :)
[08:40] <craag> *you're
[08:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/power.jpg
[08:41] <KT5TK> Thanks for the sketch
[08:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> KT5TK: so if voltage on output of the stepup converter is higher than preset value (in this case 2V) - booster is in "off" state
[08:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> so no current is draw from battery
[08:42] <craag> That works, I guess nothing gets killed if the voltage goes up to 3v or so
[08:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> all electronics can work up to 3.6V
[08:43] <craag> :)
[08:43] <craag> Awesome stuff
[08:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> so i have more than 1V safety margin
[08:43] <KT5TK> Is there a regulator in the tracker itself?
[08:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> brb - breakfast :-)
[08:43] <craag> Have you got any way of seeing from the telemetry whether the battery regulator is off or not?
[08:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> KT5TK: no
[08:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> brb
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[08:46] <KT5TK> Have breakfast... I wonder if the transmitter is able to stay on a constant frequency if the package with the solar cells is spinning
[08:46] <craag> Hmm I also have all my parts rated to 3.6V, may have to borrow that method.
[08:46] <craag> KT5TK: Good point
[08:47] <craag> RFM22 transmitter I'm guessing, I was going to say I could try it out here today, but I don't have a variable psu that goes down to 1.8V
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/ was powered exactly same way
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> It worked OK until solar panel fell off
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[08:56] <mikestir> mfa298: was there only that one place where webradio didn't build on 32-bit?
[08:56] <LeoBodnar> And also turning solar panel into a cylinder was a very bad idea
[08:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i brought those chinese waffers which works like charm :-)
[08:57] <craag> mm, having some sort of spar coming out of the side that can then hold the panel flat and horizontal would probably be ideal.
[08:57] <craag> But would increase weight a lot.
[08:57] <LeoBodnar> They have depressed world market for solar panels :)
[08:58] <LeoBodnar> How heavy is the panel?
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[08:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: very light, 1-2 grams max three cells soldered was approx 0.8g
[08:59] <LeoBodnar> THis is very good
[09:00] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:00] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[09:00] <craag> SP9UOB-Tom: What's their Pmax current? (@2.6V)
[09:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: im saying about those cells: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/244175684.html
[09:00] <bertrik> LeoBodnar: nice b-5 summary page
[09:01] <bertrik> at revspace, we still have to take a serious look at all the data we captured with habanero2
[09:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> craag: short circiut is about 280mA, i havent measure it in Pmax
[09:02] <SP9UOB-Tom> morning jcoxon. Can You approve flight doc ?
[09:02] <jcoxon> SP9UOB-Tom, sadly not
[09:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> pity. So my Pico is still on hold ;-)
[09:03] <craag> Ok, that's not bad! Current from that would depend on the fill factor, but for a decent cell that should mean ~100mA
[09:04] <jcoxon> SP9UOB-Tom, i think Upu can now
[09:08] <jcoxon> is there a trick to working out how the checksum works in a particular packet?
[09:08] <jcoxon> i'm working on this IR helicopter
[09:08] <jcoxon> and trying to work out how the checksum is calculated
[09:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> there was a page, which calculates all known checksums over provided data..
[09:11] <bertrik> this one I suppose http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html
[09:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> this is telemetry from my solar-only flight: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/solar/seba3solar.png
[09:11] <jcoxon> looking at other heli protocols i think its based on XOR
[09:11] <jcoxon> rather than CRC
[09:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> we easy can see supercapacitor damage :-)
[09:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> it was rated 2.7V
[09:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> Ping UPU
[09:17] <jcoxon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr6x3r8phvE
[09:17] <jcoxon> foil testing by steve
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> On my Pi Model A, I cut the two outer legs on one of its regulators which makes it run perfectly at 3v3. However, I've realised that I actually need to develop the code for that SD which makes me need the HDMI. But, the HDMI runs at 5v so I can't do that. How can I edit my code now?
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[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking of applying a bit of solder to connect what's left of the legs to the pads but I would need to cut this solder off again for the flight. This would be a good option, I think, but I could botch it up. Do you think soldering and then cutting again is my best option?
[09:22] <jcoxon> ibanezmatt13, develop it seperately
[09:23] <jcoxon> or do something like a powered USB hub and connect to it seperately
[09:23] <jcoxon> say with SSH
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> I was going to do that but the only other Pi I have is a Model B. I think the difference in RAM could cause me some issues
[09:23] <jcoxon> you could dev on your laptop/computer
[09:24] <daveake> ibanezmatt13, the difference in RAM doesn't make a difference IME
[09:25] <daveake> Have you tried the modded Pi with a monitor? Should work np
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> Over HDMI?
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> Or the otherone
[09:26] <daveake> You mentioned HDMI
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[09:26] <daveake> I don't use a monitor with mine. For a model A I use a "COMFAST" WiFi dongle, which runs happily on 3.3V
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> THOUGHT!
[09:27] <daveake> So I just use puttty from a PC
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> I could use ethernet
[09:27] <steve_____> daveake: have you tested the pi camera with 3v3 yet
[09:27] <daveake> Yes works just fine
[09:27] <steve_____> daveake: thx :)
[09:28] <daveake> The 5V on the Pi only goes to the 3.3V reg, HDMI (dunno what it does there), USB, and a battery sense line
[09:28] <steve_____> ibanezmatt13: I see you are interested in a tracker with atmega328p
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> So developing on the same board using putty will give the same results as developing anway on a B?
[09:28] <daveake> So in many cases you don't need 5V
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> steve_____: Yes, extremely :)
[09:28] <daveake> Yes ibanezmatt13
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> Well I might as well develop on the B then for ease
[09:28] <steve_____> my tracker is built around that chip
[09:28] <daveake> The Pi cam never sees the 5V so it doesn't care
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[09:29] <steve_____> uses a pi for programmingg it
[09:29] <steve_____> and also to take photos
[09:29] <ibanezmatt13> ah cool. Do you have any Eagle files for it?
[09:29] <daveake> re running the Pi on 3.3V see http://www.daveakerman.com/?page_id=1294
[09:29] <daveake> </advert_mode=OFF>
[09:30] <daveake> close
[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> My Pi works perfectly off 3v3 after I cut those legs as you advised daveake :)
[09:30] <steve_____> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0dm5i5aa659e0n/tracker.jpg
[09:30] <ibanezmatt13> How can you program an ATMEGA with a Pi???
[09:31] <steve_____> I've also hooked up a couple of temperature sensors and a voltage divider off the other analog pins as well
[09:31] <steve_____> I have code as well if you are interested
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> The code would be handy to look at yes. Thank you
[09:32] <steve_____> using the pi arduino ide to program
[09:32] <steve_____> its c
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> cool, thanks
[09:32] <ibanezmatt13> steve_____: did you not include any capacitors on the Ublox?
[09:33] <steve_____> oh i did that as well
[09:33] <steve_____> need to update the image
[09:33] <steve_____> :(
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[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> lol, do you have a schematic file for Eagle?
[09:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> daveake: can You approve flight doc ?
[09:35] <steve_____> Here is the code https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbohykjrqs49g9x/payload.ino
[09:35] <steve_____> I don't have the schematic for Eagle sorry
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> no worries: thank you for that. What is the difference between a .ino and a .c file?
[09:37] <ibanezmatt13> ah, arduino
[09:38] Nick change: TabletEvil -> SpeedEvil
[09:38] <mfa298> mikestir: it was just the one line in webradio/src/web/httpserver.cxx that I had to change for 32bit (I just changed the %lu to %u)
[09:38] <steve_____> the .ino file is what the IDE is expecting
[09:39] <steve_____> I think it also works with a .c file
[09:39] <mikestir> mfa298: thought so. I've checked that in is a fix but also cast to unsigned long so it works the same on 64-bit systems
[09:40] <steve_____> here is a picture of it working
[09:40] <steve_____> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hu5ezs3o2bmo6mn/board1.JPG
[09:40] <steve_____> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4sbwaz9cslsl17x/board3.JPG
[09:41] <steve_____> https://www.dropbox.com/s/usq98cr3qiqzcll/board2.JPG
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> looks good steve_____
[09:41] <steve_____> I've since chopped the stripboard down to size and its all nice and small
[09:41] <steve_____> thats a model B pi - I have the model A hooked up as well
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> My intention for this project is to make my own PCB. The ones that you can get made up. I like the idea of that
[09:42] <steve_____> I am reading the Serial debug from the AVR and using it to tigger phots
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> That's a good idea steve_____
[09:42] <steve_____> yeah I am going to do the same eventually
[09:43] <steve_____> I have a bit of python thats reading the serial output and using raspistill to take photos
[09:44] Action: SpeedEvil ... pythons on a balloon.
[09:44] <steve_____> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v9k7eamj502covs/photoSerial.py
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> I can hear out of my window the Wigan Rugby team training.
[09:45] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks steve_____
[09:45] <steve_____> SpeedEvil: :)
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[09:45] <steve_____> If you decide to go down this route setting up the pi as a programmer was a little tricky but I can help
[09:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> Well: 34.4 °C http://aprs.fi/weather/a/SP9UOB-4
[09:46] <mfa298> mikestir: I also found it would segfault when trying some other sample rates although couldn't get to the bottom of why
[09:47] <steve_____> I am ultimately going to solder all the connections on as those headers are likely to fail but still testing...
[09:47] <mikestir> librtlsdr only supports certain hardcoded rates. maybe related to that?
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah,I probably won't do to be honest steve_____ as I've already started thinking about just using an ICSP programmer. However, I didn't know that was possible and I'm pretty interested
[09:47] <ibanezmatt13> Will have a go at some point I'm sure
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[09:48] <mfa298> mikestir: quite possibly, I had a feeling it might only support certain rates but couldn't quickly find what it did support. I might have to dig around it's source code later
[09:50] <mikestir> it shouldn't segfault though, so that's still my bug
[09:57] <mfa298> trying it with gdb i got segfaults even without the modified sample rate but that could be threading. I think the segfaults always seemed to be indicated to be in the fft library.
[09:57] <mfa298> been a while since I've used gdb so that could also be my failure.
[09:57] <mikestir> actually I think the hardcoded list is in the osmocom gnuradio wrapper, rather than librtlsdr itself, but the hardware only supports certain rates
[09:58] <mikestir> I'm just going out for a bit - I'll have a look later on
[09:59] <mfa298> looking at the librtl source it looks like it uses the crytal frequency to create a ratio for the sample rate so it might be ok with being slightly off. I might try to look a bit more later - maybe also try it on a machine with a bit more cpu than the pi.
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[10:11] <Upu> K/FORGIVE
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[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Could you send me the link to your Ava library again. I need it for my laptop :)
[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> It's ok Upu I found it
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[10:24] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: I've since completely changed the wiring on that TPS61201 in my schematic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c085z4jubbwudce/NORB.sch Again, not 100% sure it's correct but it's my best one yet I think
[10:24] <ibanezmatt13> steve_____: Here's what I'm working on https://www.dropbox.com/s/c085z4jubbwudce/NORB.sch
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[10:47] <DrLuke> anyone happen to have the rn42 bluetooth module as an eagle part?
[10:48] <DrLuke> they of course have it for altium on their website
[10:49] <Darkside> make your own part
[10:49] <Darkside> good practic
[10:49] <DrLuke> I've got enough practice with that
[10:49] <Darkside> still a good thin gto go
[10:49] <Darkside> i generally have to make 4-5 footprints for each board i do
[10:50] <Darkside> as i'm generally customizing something for each board
[10:50] <Darkside> of course, in altium its pretty easy to do
[10:50] <DrLuke> yeah, but why do the work if someone already did it for me?
[10:50] <Darkside> practice
[10:50] <DrLuke> as I said I don't need practice
[10:50] <Darkside> and learning not to rely on someone elses parts
[10:50] <Darkside> anyways
[10:51] <Darkside> im sure someon has made one
[10:51] <Darkside> go google
[10:51] <DrLuke> not gonna happen, because I want to have explicit permission I can use it
[10:51] <DrLuke> so I'll have to do it myself anyways
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[11:04] <mikestir> mfa298: what samplerate did you use that segfaulted? I just tried a round 1meg and although it doesn't work, it didn't crash
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[11:14] <mfa298> 1200000 was fine. I think I tried 1000000 and 600000 which had issues (although .6M might be lower than it liked
[11:15] <mfa298> It might be it only seg faulted when connecting to it with a web client
[11:15] <mfa298> just testing again
[11:16] <mfa298> just tested with 1000000, worked for half a minute with no web client. As soon as I connected the client it failed
[11:17] <mfa298> looks like it happened as soon as it asked for the waterfall
[11:19] <mikestir> do you get lots of "lost 262144 bytes"?
[11:20] <mfa298> yes
[11:21] <mfa298> here's some gdb output http://pastebin.com/11PG1Hgn
[11:21] <mikestir> null pointer dereference
[11:21] <mikestir> outbuf is null
[11:21] <mikestir> probably because the pipeline never started
[11:23] <mfa298> on the pi it's certainly slow at responding to commands so the words sound plausible (without having looked at the code in detail)
[11:25] <mikestir> oh the other problem you may encounter is that the decimation filters can only support integer ratios at the moment
[11:26] <mikestir> so 2.4 MHz to 480 kHz to 48 kHz is fine, but other combinations may not be
[11:27] <mikestir> I'm going to look at how the channel filter works and then hopefully all these issues should go away
[11:27] <mfa298> I'll try compiling it on something with a slightly better cpu which might also help some of the issues go away.
[11:30] <mikestir> i'll pm you a link if you want to see a demo. I can't publish that though because of bandwidth limitations
[11:31] <mfa298> it worked enough on the pi to see how it works so thats ok.
[11:31] <mfa298> part of it was seeing if it could work on the pi (to which the answer seems to be no - at least for now)
[11:31] <mikestir> I'd like to get it working on the pi eventually
[11:32] <mikestir> even if that involves writing some of it in assembly
[11:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok its up
[11:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> but without battery - only solar
[11:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> not enough lift
[11:33] <Willdude123> Hi
[11:33] <Willdude123> I just had a scary thought, this time next year I'll be able to work.
[11:37] <Willdude123> Anyway. Any interesting hab projects going on?
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[11:38] <mikestir> mfa298: the ARM11 does have some limited SIMD support and a single cycle MAC, but it's not immediately clear if these are fixed-point only
[11:38] <mikestir> that kind of optimisation is a job for later
[11:38] <mfa298> mikestir: the other thing that could be possible is doing some work in the gpu although there doesn't seem to be much info about that around
[11:39] <mfa298> probably best to get it working on something with a bit more grunt then work on the pi later
[11:39] <g6ypk> Greetings, Grooup. Tried to download the software, but my Norton said it was suspicious and quaranteed it
[11:39] <mikestir> that's probably not going to happen without the involvement of someone friendly at broadcom
[11:39] <craag> g6ypk: dl-fldigi?
[11:40] <g6ypk> Yes, di-fldigi
[11:40] <mikestir> mfa298: beaglebone is probably a better candidate because it's faster and supports NEON
[11:40] <g6ypk> I guess Norton is not the best program to use to check software
[11:41] <craag> g6ypk: No.. it does tend to come up with a lot of false warnings.
[11:41] <g6ypk> Thanks. I will look out for
[11:41] <craag> Dl-fldigi is dangerous, but only in the amount of your time it consumes during a flight!
[11:41] <g6ypk> beagle
[11:41] <craag> :P
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[11:42] <Willdude123> g6ypk: I know how to fix it when it does that
[11:42] <craag> Oh yeah, does anyone here have a Beaglebone Black that's having USB hotplug issues?
[11:42] <Willdude123> I've got one
[11:42] <Willdude123> Not sure what you mean.
[11:43] <craag> If I boot it up with the usb device plugged in it all works.
[11:43] <craag> If it's already running and I plug the usb device in, it doesn't respond to it, doesn't recognise it, anything.
[11:44] <Willdude123> Yesh I get that too
[11:44] <Willdude123> craag: What are you planning on doing with it? I'm building a tracker.
[11:44] <craag> Apparently it was fixed a while ago, but has come back in later versions. Every post on the forums that someone makes gets closed with "This was fixed ages ago.." not helpful
[11:44] <mfa298> craag: using a real radio with rig control helps reduce the amount of time it *needs* to consume
[11:45] <craag> mfa298: True..
[11:45] <Willdude123> I suppose #beagle won't help
[11:45] <craag> Willdude123: Hadn't tried them yet
[11:45] <Willdude123> Might as well.
[11:45] <craag> I usually try to work it out by myself first.
[11:45] <Willdude123> Yesh that's usually best
[11:46] <craag> Willdude123: I'm doing a project for work, looking at moving our application from the Pi to the BBB for more IO and less power consumption.
[11:46] <Willdude123> Nice
[11:47] <craag> Only draws 150mA idle with the ethernet unplugged.
[11:47] <Willdude123> What does the project do?
[11:48] <craag> Can't tell you that unfortunately. NDA and all.
[11:48] <Willdude123> Yesh I'm actually building a tracker with it. Gets bloody hot though and wifi is temperamental.
[11:48] <Willdude123> Ah right.
[11:48] <Willdude123> I trust that it is awesome.
[11:49] <Willdude123> Do you know if there are any good electronics companies (not maplin) that you can wiork for at 14?
[11:50] <Willdude123> Cause it'd be nice to get a summer job next year.
[11:52] <craag> I don't unfortunately
[11:52] <craag> Why not maplin?
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[11:54] <Willdude123> Well
[11:54] <Willdude123> idk
[11:55] <Willdude123> They can be a bit rubbish sometimes
[11:55] <mfa298> the only real issue with maplin is the cost of buying stuff
[11:55] <craag> They're not the brightest bunch, but it's electronics related.
[11:56] <craag> And I'm not sure many companies will want to employ a younger student on the project side of things incase things go wrong.
[11:56] <craag> Retail is bit more forgiving :)
[11:57] <Willdude123> Heh
[11:57] <craag> (Coming from someone who jumped headfirst into a pharmacy retail job, knowing nothing medical whatsoever)
[11:57] <mfa298> I was quite impressed my one of the local maplins once. I bought some enamled wire, Ge diode, variable capacitor and a few other bits and the guy knew what I was intending to do with it.
[11:58] <Willdude123> And in case they have swearing rages.
[11:58] <Willdude123> :-L
[11:59] <Willdude123> mfa what were you doing ?
[11:59] <Willdude123> :-)
[11:59] <craag> I'd say you're more likely to encounter rude language, but that's my experience ;)
[12:00] <craag> *encounter rude language in retail
[12:00] <mfa298> I think at 14 you're fairly limited to what you can do (at least in hours you can work) so retail/catering are probably the main jobs you can get (otherwise your into more casual things like dog walking)
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[12:02] <Willdude123> You can do 5 hours a day in summer
[12:03] <mfa298> I think that's pretty much going to limit you to things like retail
[12:03] <Willdude123> Yesh
[12:04] <mfa298> most programming / electronics companies would probably only be interested if you are exceptionally good at what they need.
[12:09] <Willdude123> I'm not, yet :-)
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[12:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> sq9diq: hi :-) 437.594 MHz
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[12:15] <craag> Just quickly, what's the cheapest that I could get the kit for hydrogen fill? (I only need 1 or 2 m3)
[12:15] <Willdude123> Has anyone crowdfunded a HAB project?
[12:16] <craag> Willdude123: Yes, some people in the states did I think.
[12:16] <craag> Here though, you'd realyl need something unique about it, we do so many!
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[12:17] <Willdude123> Age kinda counts? :-)
[12:17] <Willdude123> Like what though?
[12:17] <Willdude123> I know
[12:18] <Willdude123> You could do a flight that goes into the night and ssdv pictures of people who pledge's faces
[12:19] <Willdude123> Or for a larger amount, their faeces
[12:19] <craag> Sounds like a mini-big-!space-balloon
[12:20] <Willdude123> What's a mini-big-!-space-bal
[12:20] <Willdude123> loon?
[12:21] <craag> http://www.bigspaceballoon.co.uk/
[12:21] <Willdude123> Ah nice
[12:21] <Willdude123> I'm too young :-(
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> bleh - vanity fair
[12:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=SP9UOB is solar-only i have to remove battery - not enough gas left :-)
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[12:27] <craag> Oh nice
[12:27] <craag> Seems to be working so far though! SP9UOB-Tom
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> Ah, good, is it floating?
[12:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: its ascending slowly
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[12:32] <LeoBodnar> Float to Alaska at 8000m http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12703_trj001.gif
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[12:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: no, its turning south
[12:41] <craag> LeoBodnar: Yeah I've just been looking at predictions for the 100g pico next week, need an 8m/s ascent rate to be able to recover on the way to work (can't do that with natural gas!)
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> 100g pico?
[12:42] <craag> 100g hwoyee
[12:43] <daveake> You'll need a notam - burst diameter > 2m
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> Ah, OK, I thought you are making your own
[12:43] <daveake> which is a shame
[12:43] <craag> daveake: Ah ok, we've decided that they're not sub 2m?
[12:44] <LeoBodnar> Only if bound with nets
[12:44] <daveake> Steve flew a few, and they went quite a bit higher than expected
[12:44] <craag> Nvm then, I'll get the tracker ready for the netted one.
[12:45] <daveake> Initially the spec said "1.8m burst" but after Steve fed back his info they revised it to >2m
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Ah - but they're specified to burst at 1.8m
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Silly steve.
[12:45] <daveake> not any more
[12:45] <daveake> lol
[12:45] <gonzo_> the burst spac has been revised?
[12:45] <daveake> AIUI yes
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Four strings tied round it to limit expansion to 2m
[12:46] <LeoBodnar> Cage
[12:46] <daveake> From Steve's site: "Note: these balloons have a burst diameter of 2m or more."
[12:46] <gonzo_> I thought of similar, but with the strings causing a burst mech whe they tensioned
[12:47] <gonzo_> but was not sure it would be reilable
[12:47] <craag> Hwoyee specs: http://www.hwoyee.com/images.aspx?fatherId=11010101&msId=1101010101&title=0
[12:47] <craag> >=2m
[12:47] <craag> :|
[12:47] <daveake> Yeah so long as you can guarantee everything fits in a 2m sphere at all times, then fill yer boots
[12:47] <gonzo_> (I went up to have a look)
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> daveake: That does imply quite a large payload low down, in principle.
[12:48] <LeoBodnar> Why not HY-50?
[12:48] <craag> Hmm, 3 strings wrapped up like a parcel, forcing it to burst non-spherical, non-ideal and therefore early (before 2m) mihgt be interesting. Not sure it's worth the effort though.
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> Controlled burst with nichrome wire patch
[12:49] <daveake> Interesting that they show the weight tolerance. e.g. a 1200g is "+150g". I've weighed one at 1350
[12:50] <craag> LeoBodnar: Cutting the top of the neck with a loop of nichrome might be easier.
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[12:50] <craag> patch is going to have to expand with the balloon
[12:51] <craag> But it won't be a clean burst, and may come down partially inflated.
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Simple.
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> Fill with hydrogen/chlorine, and launch at the appropriate time before dawn.
[12:52] <craag> :|
[12:52] <craag> ISH suddenly has a real deadline
[12:52] <LeoBodnar> night launch + fresnel lense
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[13:04] <gonzo_> fill with h2and use a pyro
[13:04] <gonzo_> though guess ther will be littke o2 up there
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[13:09] <craag> Would be spectacular
[13:09] <craag> But I *really* don't like the idea of that being on the launch site
[13:09] <craag> Especially given Ed's wise words about the pyros they had go off on the payload assembly table.
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[13:21] <ibanezmatt13> I've been trying to create my board from my schematic in Eagle and it's going very badly. I run the autorouter and it says 37% finished, polygons may have fallen apart and it looks awful. :/
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[13:23] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I began making a very basic Arduino clone and even that won't work properly. It may be due to the fact that in the free version of Eagle you are limited to 2 layers.
[13:25] <ibanezmatt13> I may just try manual routing
[13:25] <charolastra> very basic Arduino clone = any ATMEL chip and a regulated power supply; even the crystal is optional
[13:27] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: uhm
[13:27] <Darkside> dont use autoroute
[13:27] <Darkside> period.
[13:27] <Darkside> and 2 layers is enough
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> why the hell I even used it in the first place I don't know...
[13:28] <Darkside> and oh god i'm giving pcb design lessons again
[13:28] <Darkside> i thought i delegated this job to Upu
[13:28] <Darkside> UPU!
[13:28] <Darkside> I SUMMON THEE
[13:28] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> Darkside: Should the two layers be GND? I'm a bit confused about how this layer thing works.
[13:29] <Darkside> er
[13:29] <Darkside> the layers are whatever you want
[13:29] <Darkside> i genreally try and kep most of one layer ground
[13:29] <ibanezmatt13> It would have been good to have a VCC layer and a GND layer. Would that be ok for a 2 layer PCB?
[13:29] <Darkside> but you will probably have to move tracks from one layer to another to connect a net
[13:29] <Darkside> it wont just be VCC and just GND
[13:30] <Darkside> you only do that in 4 layer boards
[13:30] <ibanezmatt13> Ah. So what would I be able to get away with in a 2 layer board?
[13:31] <Darkside> a lot
[13:31] <Darkside> all of my flight computers are 2 layr
[13:31] <Darkside> so are all of upu's boards
[13:31] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I don't fully understand this layer thing...
[13:31] <LeoBodnar> VCC pour on 2 layer PCB is a bad idea
[13:31] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/DSC_7956.jpg
[13:31] <Darkside> ibanezmatt13: you just want 2 layers, a top and bottom layer
[13:32] <Darkside> dont think of it as VCC or GND layers
[13:32] <Darkside> think of it as a surface you can use for whatever you want
[13:32] <Darkside> you run wires (Traces) along a layer to connect points in your circuit
[13:32] <Darkside> if you need to, you can use a 'via' to connect a trace on the top and bottom layers together
[13:32] <Darkside> so you can have a trace go from one layer to another, to connect something
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[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> Why would I need to use the second layer if everything's connected on top. Maybe I could have the bottom layer as GND so I could use vias to ground everthing?
[13:33] <Darkside> yep
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[13:33] <ibanezmatt13> That makes sense
[13:33] <cyclops> hi!
[13:33] <Darkside> if you look at that pcb, you'll see that i've filled all empty space with a ground pout
[13:33] <Darkside> pour*
[13:34] <Darkside> and then linked the top and bottom ground pours with vias
[13:34] <Darkside> but keeping all traces to a single layer can be difficult
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> That's what I'm thinking of doing.
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks for the help
[13:34] <Darkside> you want to arrange your components to keep traces as short as you can
[13:34] <Darkside> if you have a trace that runs right around the board, you're doing somethign wrong
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> That's the hard bit
[13:34] <ibanezmatt13> for me
[13:35] <Darkside> its somethign you learn with practice
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> Indeed, I'll have another go. Thanks :)
[13:35] <Darkside> i take it you're using a through-hole atmega?
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> Err, it's a TQFP package
[13:35] <ibanezmatt13> looks like pads
[13:35] <Darkside> oh cool
[13:36] <Darkside> lemme find a pic of my first design
[13:36] <Darkside> actually no
[13:36] <Darkside> its crap
[13:36] <Darkside> :P
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[13:37] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DSC_4087.jpg
[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> crap!? I'd be made up with that
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[13:38] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-09-29_MicroNut_Tracker_Construction/
[13:38] <Darkside> theres the first micronut design
[13:38] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DSC_5655.jpg
[13:38] <Darkside> and the new version
[13:38] <ibanezmatt13> that's the sort of thing I wanna make
[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> looks good Darkside
[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> I'm gonna get back to my board design :/ Thanks
[13:39] <Darkside> glhf
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[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> Darkside: How should I connect things to VCC? Just a VCC track on the top layer/
[13:45] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[13:46] <Darkside> however you can
[13:48] <daveake> Vcc is just another net, albeit one with several connections and needs decoupling
[13:49] <ibanezmatt13> ok, thanks
[13:49] <daveake> As Darkside said the whole thing is a blank canvas (well 2 really :-) )
[13:50] <daveake> Something else to remember ... some AVR connections can be moved around. e.g. you can use many pins for the NTX2 connection. So do those last
[13:51] <daveake> Do the xtal ones first as those need to be short
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[14:00] <Willdude123> Hi daveake
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[14:05] <Willdude123> I was thinking about the UBX proprietary protocol I still don't really understandnthe benefita. Then I just chundered everywah.
[14:05] <ibanezmatt13> Darkside: I'm trying to connect TX on the Ublox to RX on the AVR, and RX on the Ublox to TX on the AVR. But how can I connect them without taking the tracks all the way around the board???
[14:06] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Welcome to the world of PCB layout design :)
[14:06] <Willdude123> Haha
[14:07] <ibanezmatt13> lol, is that what I must do ?
[14:07] <craag> YOu might have to take them all the way around the board
[14:07] <craag> Try rotating chips in different ways, putting them in different places, and see what works best
[14:08] <jonsowman> you won't get it right first time
[14:08] <Willdude123> Man
[14:08] <jonsowman> layout, rip up tracks and start again
[14:08] <Willdude123> I'm gonna have to start reading up on this at some point.
[14:08] <jonsowman> usually takes 2-3 iterations for it to be decent
[14:08] <jonsowman> and even then, revision 2 will be way better than revision 1
[14:08] <ibanezmatt13> hard work but I'll get it eventually. Thanks :)
[14:08] <jonsowman> it's worth it :)
[14:08] <jonsowman> i find routing quite therapeutic actually
[14:09] <jonsowman> though that's probably just me
[14:09] <Willdude123> Will the habduino work on it's own?
[14:09] <craag> It is satisfying when you have everything crammed in smaller than you ever thought possible.
[14:09] <jonsowman> yep
[14:09] <Willdude123> If not them what use is the 'duino, except to provide power?
[14:09] <Willdude123> Oh ok
[14:10] <craag> Even more so when your PCB arrives, and you put it side-by-side with your mess of prototyping and breakout boards :)
[14:10] <mikestir> willdude123: did you ever get a fix out of your ublox?
[14:10] <Willdude123> Nope, sent to Upu.
[14:10] <Willdude123> And hee found it worked
[14:10] <jonsowman> Willdude123: the binary protocol is far easier to parse, and therefore less likely that you'll make mistakes
[14:10] <ibanezmatt13> looks like I have no option but to go round one of the chips. Ah well :)
[14:10] <mikestir> they do seem to be very deaf, at least with the chip antenna
[14:10] <jonsowman> parsing ascii is a pain
[14:11] <jonsowman> and once you get your head aorund the documentation, it's actually very good
[14:11] <Willdude123> It's prettu easy to parse i python
[14:12] <Willdude123> How would one go abot arsing binary in python
[14:12] <jonsowman> everything is easy to parse in python :)
[14:13] <jonsowman> this might help Willdude123: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/joey-m/blob/master/firmware/gps.c
[14:13] <Willdude123> Aaaaah! C code
[14:16] <Willdude123> Is everything always at a fixed position in the proprietary method?
[14:17] <jonsowman> yes, all the fields are fixed length
[14:17] <jonsowman> with perhaps a couple of exceptions
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[14:17] <jonsowman> the documentation explains everything
[14:23] <Willdude123> Is there a way to get internet on a HAB?
[14:24] <Willdude123> It'd be cool if you could make a BtC transaction from near-space
[14:25] <mikestir> you could get a very slow internet connection over rtty
[14:25] <jonsowman> hah
[14:25] <Willdude123> Hmm but then the connection wouldn't be direct.
[14:26] <mikestir> it could be. you could run a SLIP or PPP channel over a two-way rtty link and have an IP stack on the payload
[14:26] <mikestir> i'm not suggesting this is a sensible thing to do, however!
[14:26] <chrisstubbs> I think we have been through this with the minecraft server guy
[14:27] <jonsowman> lol
[14:27] <jonsowman> seems eminently sensible ot me
[14:28] <mfa298> I think I went for the option of use a few balloons and run some single mode fibre up. Although you might need a bit more power to run the converter.
[14:29] <mfa298> although it's then a tethered flight
[14:29] <craag> Satellite internet is the only option really, but it's going to be heavy and expensive!
[14:29] <mfa298> or just do the internet bit from low altitude over 3g.
[14:29] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, use some of these for poer http://bit.ly/15Wr44D
[14:29] <chrisstubbs> *power
[14:30] <Willdude123> Hmm
[14:31] <Willdude123> Just wondering, are there 'official' rules of this Irc chan?
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[14:31] <mfa298> based on past experience of fibre/ethernet media converters they'de probably be about as reliable a 3g connection. They sometimes need some dark magic to make them come up.
[14:31] <bENNY_BOY> hello everyone
[14:32] <Willdude123> Hi
[14:33] <bENNY_BOY> does anyone have any experience of swapping out the voltage regulator on a raspberry pi for something a little better? I'm getting a power drain from my sensors and it's pushing the kit over the limit (just)
[14:33] <bENNY_BOY> I know other people have done this.
[14:33] <fsphil> I've removed it, and just feed in 3.3v via the header
[14:33] <daveake> There are plenty of better 3.3V regulators
[14:34] <daveake> Few worse tbh
[14:34] <bENNY_BOY> Dave Akerman used a VR that could accept 3V input and outout 5v, but I can't find any components that match that
[14:34] <mfa298> Willdude123: I'm not sure many IRC channels have official rules but the standard is to stay roughly on topic and dont do things that might insult people (swearing, discussions of politics & religion are generally good things to generally avoid)
[14:34] <daveake> No I didn't :p
[14:34] <daveake> It was 3.3V out
[14:34] <fsphil> thank god we don't do religion here
[14:34] <bENNY_BOY> ah. Hi Dave
[14:34] <bENNY_BOY> :)
[14:34] <daveake> mfa298 /ignore works well I find :p
[14:36] <daveake> The Pi (well, the one I tested on) will boot on 3V
[14:36] <bENNY_BOY> Basically the problem I'm having seems to be that the various sensors and transmitters are pushing my poor pi over the edge. When I put a meter over the two test points on the board I get a signal that drops to around 4.6V I understand that anything lower than 4.75 is generally not good
[14:36] <fsphil> I wonder if that's more to do with the SD card than the GPU itself
[14:36] <fsphil> SD cards work at 3.3v iirc
[14:37] <daveake> 4.6 isn't good as that poor regulator on the Pi has a dropout of 1.2V
[14:37] <Willdude123> mfa298: Praise the lord, I'm refraining from both of those bloody damn groups.
[14:37] <daveake> So you're very close to it dropping out
[14:37] <daveake> So just replacing it with a real LDO will help
[14:37] <fsphil> ah some SD cards work at 1.8V
[14:38] <daveake> Also, 4.6 is low anyway - could be your PSU, or the cable, or the main thermal fuse on the Pi
[14:38] <bENNY_BOY> Can you suggest any part numbers? Otherwise I'll just have a trawl through google/RS
[14:38] <daveake> Well the one I use which is 0.5A max (may or may not be an issue for you) is the MCP1825S
[14:38] <bENNY_BOY> Without the sensor running the test point give something around 5v
[14:39] <daveake> Blimey what sensor?
[14:39] <bENNY_BOY> left the 's' off!
[14:39] <bENNY_BOY> sensors
[14:39] <daveake> :)
[14:39] <daveake> Probably bringing that thermal fuse into play
[14:39] <daveake> Which is why I bypass it anyway
[14:40] <fsphil> the newer boards don't have the fuse
[14:40] <daveake> yes they do
[14:40] <fsphil> oh I thought they where remoevd from Rev 2
[14:40] <daveake> This is the one on the 5V from the socket
[14:40] <bENNY_BOY> 'Fixing' the fuses is on my list. It's an older Rev B board that still has teh USB fuses in place
[14:40] <daveake> They removed the USB ones
[14:40] <Willdude123> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/ukhas/4UmHf7daLyM How do you do voice from a hab??
[14:40] <fsphil> ah gotcha
[14:40] <daveake> The other one I believe is still there
[14:40] <fsphil> computers can speak Willdude123
[14:41] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, i think you can get an arduino module that you send text over ttl
[14:41] <bENNY_BOY> So I'm 'OK' to bypass the thermal fuse around the PSU.
[14:41] <chrisstubbs> and it speaks it
[14:41] <chrisstubbs> http://store.open-electronics.org/Arduino/Shield/AUDIO_SHIELD
[14:42] <bENNY_BOY> Thanks Dave! :)
[14:42] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs nic
[14:42] <Willdude123> nice
[14:42] <chrisstubbs> Ah this one just records text
[14:43] <Willdude123> Should have one that speaks directions to find it,
[14:44] <fsphil> how woud it know where you are?
[14:44] <fsphil> +l
[14:44] <ibanezmatt13> anybody know how to connect two tracks together in Eagle?
[14:44] <Upu> type name
[14:44] <Upu> click the first
[14:44] <Upu> copy the name
[14:44] <Upu> click the second paste the name in
[14:45] <jonsowman> use the sparkfun eagle shortcuts and they make the keyboard shortcuts actually useful
[14:45] <jonsowman> F4 is name
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> Ah ok, didn't think that you could name tracks
[14:45] <mikestir> do it in schematic. layout should follow
[14:45] <Willdude123> Hi Upu
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: Yougot mail :)
[14:46] <Upu> afternoon WIll
[14:46] <Upu> oh lucky me :)
[14:46] <Upu> I'll check it later one
[14:46] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: How's wherever you are on holiday?
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, thanks
[14:46] <Upu> you two are on holiday ? Wow
[14:46] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123: Returned lastnight:/
[14:47] <mfa298> Willdude123: also note that one is in a country that allows amateur radio from airborne - so they can use better bands and more power.
[14:47] <Willdude123> Ah OK
[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> Thunderstorms over Northern Spain delayed our departure by 2 hours 30 minutes while we were sat on the plane :P
[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> They wouldn't even serve drinks. Ryanair...
[14:47] <Willdude123> mfa298: Why where are you?
[14:49] <mfa298> Willdude123: I'm UK but that flight is in Germany (which does allow AR airborne)
[14:50] <fsphil> 10mw probably isn't enough to do useful FM voice on 434mhz
[14:50] <Willdude123> Oh ok
[14:51] <mikestir> ssb voice?
[14:51] <fsphil> would need interesting hardware :)
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: How can naming tracks actually connect them? I'm in board view
[14:51] <fsphil> but would be a neat trick
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[14:53] <Upu> if you name two track the same name they are connected regardless of whether they are connected visually
[14:53] <Upu> the are the same net
[14:53] <cyclops> Upu , once y upload de Payload file to habitat
[14:53] <cyclops> How long will it take to be validated¿
[14:54] <Upu> the payload doesn't need validating it will just work
[14:54] <Upu> its the flight doc that needs to be approved
[14:54] <cyclops> Oh, right and hoe loeng does it usually takes?
[14:54] <cyclops> *long
[14:54] <cyclops> Im doing the launch schedule, and so need to know when do i have to do everithing
[14:54] <Upu> just ask someone generally done immediately
[14:55] <cyclops> perfect then
[14:55] <cyclops> So to for example
[14:55] <Upu> I would do it ~ 48 hours before
[14:55] <cyclops> test the tracker when you deliver
[14:55] <cyclops> No need to do the flight doc?
[14:55] <Upu> at that point no
[14:56] <cyclops> Ok, so 48hours before launch, I upload and ask for approval
[14:56] <Upu> yes
[14:56] <cyclops> Perfect then. Only tracker left and ready to launch :P
[14:56] <cyclops> Ah Upu i plan on including a cheap GPS tracker
[14:57] <cyclops> the ones that use SIMS to send an SMS just in case something goes wrong
[14:57] <Upu> understandable
[14:57] <chrisstubbs> Oh not said anything about this yet. Matt had a TK-102 on MONTY that turned on < 5000m
[14:57] <chrisstubbs> worked quite well
[14:58] <cyclops> As its a camera payload
[14:58] <cyclops> I dont want to loose it
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[14:58] <cyclops> chrisstubbs: i plan on using that one
[14:59] <chrisstubbs> cyclops, there seem to be a few versions, some just about work. some are a total waste of time
[14:59] <cyclops> not very expensive, AFAIK works pretty well
[14:59] <chrisstubbs> they sometimes fail to recover from the high altitude
[14:59] <cyclops> Yes, I saw some are just copies
[14:59] <Upu> they have about 50% success rate i the UK
[15:00] <cyclops> Hum
[15:00] <cyclops> Lets pray for the Habduino working perfectly :P
[15:00] <chrisstubbs> I expect the habduino will work far better than the GSM tracker
[15:01] <cyclops> The launch spot ive chosen has no mountains or cities nearby, so the signal will be strong
[15:01] <cyclops> Yes chrisstubbs i think so, but its just a backup
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> If I were you I would wait until upu has launched one before you buy
[15:01] <cyclops> Cant do it
[15:01] <Upu> launching in 2 weeks
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> I suppose any problems at this stage can be sorted by a software update
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> if there was a problem
[15:02] <cyclops> I have the permission for launching in 2 weeks
[15:02] <cyclops> and latter I leave the area
[15:02] <cyclops> *later
[15:02] <cyclops> So its a risk I have to assume
[15:04] <cyclops> So upu send ASAP
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[15:04] <Upu> no pressure
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[15:04] <mikestir> oops
[15:05] <cyclops> I mean that before 2 weeks
[15:06] <Upu> do you have a soldering iron cyclops ?
[15:06] <cyclops> I do
[15:06] <Upu> you'll need to make a 1/4 wave antenna
[15:06] <cyclops> But my soldering skills are not very good
[15:06] <daveake> and stereo vision? :p
[15:06] <Upu> I'll do some instructons on how
[15:06] <cyclops> Ah no problem
[15:06] <Upu> daveake have you got my wire btw ?
[15:06] <cyclops> Its made with a coaxial cable right?¿
[15:06] <Upu> I can't find it
[15:07] <daveake> what wire?
[15:07] <Upu> I supply the coax with the SMA on it
[15:07] <Upu> solid core
[15:07] <Upu> black
[15:07] <ibanezmatt13> Gonna stop working on this board for a bit. Every track I put down stops me from putting another down. :P
[15:07] <Upu> small plastic spindle
[15:07] <daveake> erm dunno don't remember seeing it
[15:07] <Upu> last seen on you Upu bench
[15:07] <daveake> On a reel?
[15:07] <Upu> yes
[15:07] <daveake> what sort of size?
[15:07] <Upu> 1mm I think
[15:08] <daveake> and the reel?
[15:08] <Upu> just the stuff I made antennas with
[15:08] <daveake> ok I'll check
[15:08] <Upu> ta
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[15:09] <cyclops> Not difficult to made, isnt it?
[15:09] <Upu> no
[15:09] <cyclops> to be located on top or bottom of payload
[15:09] <Upu> yes
[15:09] <Upu> err
[15:09] <Upu> bottom
[15:09] <cyclops> and as my payload is a sphere
[15:10] <cyclops> I should use drinking tubes to hold it right?
[15:10] <Upu> yep
[15:10] <daveake> No sorry no reels of single core
[15:10] <Upu> ok cheers Dave
[15:10] <cyclops> And what is needed to be soldered then?
[15:11] <Upu> 5 radials
[15:11] <Upu> well 4 radials and one element
[15:11] <Upu> radials and elements being a piece of wire 164mm long
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[15:12] <cyclops> that its 70/4
[15:12] <cyclops> And all is made of coaxial cable?
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[15:15] <Upu> some of it
[15:16] <Upu> its quite easy to make I'll document it
[15:16] <Upu> just need to find my wire :/
[15:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> reset zasilania powinien pomoc, albo zmierzch
[15:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> oops sorry
[15:16] <cyclops> ok no problem upu :D
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> cyclops, http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna
[15:17] <chrisstubbs> need to get round to embedding those images some day...
[15:18] <cyclops> I see
[15:19] <mfa298> cyclops: one I made for a ground station looks like this https://www.dropbox.com/s/s46sbq8q298k8nt/2013-07-27%2016.55.53.jpg. You can just about see the wires cable tied to the wooden skewers
[15:19] <cyclops> yeah i see
[15:19] <mfa298> (and for people who think you need a huge antenna to track a payload, that's what I used for Bonzo7 yesyerday - That's just down to good location and good radio)
[15:20] <cyclops> so ill need something like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mF2Kyo6-8GU/ULPJNIxeexI/AAAAAAAAA7I/IWLYiqOTld0/s1600/IMG_1638.JPG
[15:20] <mfa298> For a HAB it needs to be the other way up (so the centre of the coax pointing down)
[15:20] <cyclops> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R5zyNoIaHU4/UWrc2n6P6zI/AAAAAAAABTk/xsqZ0TyUdeU/s1600/IMG_2021.JPG
[15:21] <mfa298> cyclops: yep, although it's easier to solder on bits of wire for the radials rather than trying to use the outer part of the coax
[15:21] <cyclops> Yes i wthink so
[15:21] <cyclops> *i think so, and upu is making the guide that way
[15:21] <cyclops> But for the radials any wire works?
[15:22] <cyclops> Or has to be crimped and without pvc
[15:22] <mfa298> doesn't make much difference.
[15:23] <mfa298> solid wire is probably easier than stranded as it keeps its shape but otherwise it doesn't make any real difference
[15:23] <cyclops> so i could take the shielding off a coax, solder to the center one and use as radial
[15:23] <mfa298> the radials go the the outer bit of the coax and the driven element goes to the centre
[15:24] <mfa298> I shall see if I can take a closeup pic of the centre of mine
[15:24] <Upu> cyclops generally you can use the center of the coax as the main element
[15:24] <cyclops> ok! thanks
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[15:24] <cyclops> and then normal copper cable as radials
[15:25] <Upu> yes
[15:26] <Upu> I supply one of these : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=88
[15:26] <Upu> you can remove the insulation fromt hat
[15:26] <cyclops> and everything 164mm long
[15:26] <chrisstubbs> Right its BBQoclock, laters all!
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[15:27] <cyclops> and its necessary to remove all the isulation or only the shielding
[15:28] <mfa298> cyclops: this is a close up of the centre of mine. The main element uses the centre of the coax and then wire soldered onto the braid. https://www.dropbox.com/s/b64psqh9078r5xe/2013-07-28%2016.26.25.jpg
[15:30] <cyclops> so not directly soldered to the coax copper centre but to the shielding
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[15:30] <mfa298> the radials go to the shielding.
[15:30] <cyclops> right
[15:30] <cyclops> that seems easy to do
[15:30] <Upu> all will be clear cyclops when I take some pics
[15:31] <cyclops> Nice
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[15:31] <cyclops> BTW Upu which payment ways do you accept?
[15:31] <Upu> gold
[15:31] <Upu> platium
[15:31] <Upu> and dancing girls
[15:31] <cyclops> Let mee see the vault
[15:31] <Upu> or paypal
[15:31] <cyclops> Hum dacing girls and platinum left
[15:31] <cyclops> But no gold
[15:31] <Upu> super :)
[15:32] <cyclops> Ill send them with a ferrary, as a tip
[15:32] <cyclops> *ferrari
[15:32] <Upu> I'll accept that as fair trade
[15:33] <cyclops> Perfect then
[15:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: Dancing SP9UOB is enougg ;-)?
[15:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: Dancing SP9UOB is enough ;-)?
[15:33] Action: mfa298 wonders how well a ferrari would work as a chase vehicle.
[15:33] <Upu> err
[15:33] <Upu> no :)
[15:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> pity
[15:33] <Upu> it would be rubbish
[15:34] <Upu> After last time on a tank proving ground
[15:34] <Upu> :/
[15:34] <cyclops> you could reach
[15:34] <cyclops> the lading spot quickly
[15:34] <Upu> don't bet on it
[15:34] <mfa298> but you'de be able to get there quickly (at 70mph of course)
[15:35] <cyclops> Well if you want a tank like car just buy a MARAUDER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic
[15:35] <cyclops> costs as much as a ferrari but its more versatile
[15:35] <Upu> Dave has one of those
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[15:36] <cyclops> With that car, no matter the payload is on top of a tree
[15:37] <cyclops> You simple get the top to the floor
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[15:46] <Billabong> hi anyone know if there is an IRC specific to Arduino
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[15:48] <cyclops> AFK
[15:50] <Upu> Billabong try #arduino ?
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[15:58] <LeoBodnar> Has anybody tried 10mW telemetry on 13.560MHz yet?
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[16:10] <KT5TK> I'm not aware of anybody using the 21m band from a balloon. If so, you'd likely want to do something like WSPR because the noise floor will be quite high.
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[16:11] <KT5TK> We are going to launch a WSPR beacon in August on 10.1 MHz on our BLT34
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[16:14] <KT5TK> Bill (WB8ELK) has launched a WSPR beacon earlier this year but I haven' seen any reports about how it worked out.
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[16:17] <KT5TK> We have used PSK31 on 20 and 40 meters at our Winter floaters. Works nicely with dl-fldigi
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> Were they latex?
[16:18] <KT5TK> yes
[16:19] <LeoBodnar> I would like to make something small to stick under a foil
[16:19] <KT5TK> biggest problem is likely antenna weight
[16:19] <LeoBodnar> I am also still unsure about legal implications of using airborne non-ISM bands
[16:20] <KT5TK> at 10 mW likely nobody will care
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> Well, I agree but it's better to have a clean solution from the outset.
[16:21] <KT5TK> you'll be far below the noise level for everyone at a few miles distance
[16:23] <mikestir> LeoBodnar: what about ism at 27 MHz? that would also have the advantage of being in-range for R820T based DVB dongles
[16:23] <KT5TK> If there is no legal problem at 434 ISM I don't see a difference on 13.56
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> Logically transmitting over international waters should not be a violation of any particular country's law
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Logic and governments aren't always the same thing.
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> But how does this tie up with as the owner/maker of the transmitter staying on particular country's soil.
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> For example - if you as a UK citezen anywhere in the world are in control of a space launch - you in principle need a licence under the outer space act
[16:24] <KT5TK> Leo: do you have a ham license?
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> No
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> Not yet
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> But it won't be different even if I had one
[16:25] <KT5TK> Well, then get one and launch from a CEPT country that doesn't make so much trouble
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> UK license prohibits airborne use
[16:26] <KT5TK> Therefore launch from Germany or so
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[16:27] <LeoBodnar> 27 MHz 10mW would work too but I think propagation is a bit worse during the night
[16:27] <KT5TK> Depends.
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> I always liked 20m band and 13.560 is just outside it. :)
[16:28] <KT5TK> In summer nights it may sometimes work on 11m
[16:28] <KT5TK> The advantage is a lower noise floor and smaller antennas
[16:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> My 1Watt @28.500 form HAB was received and decoded in Canada :-)
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> 13.560 would be cool if we could enlist HAMs with bad 20m antennas :)
[16:29] <KT5TK> I'd certainly try to track it
[16:30] <LeoBodnar> And something like slow Domino 8 would be just the ticket
[16:30] <LeoBodnar> Yes, and maybe FEC before somebody says it
[16:31] <KT5TK> Yes, but again on hamradio WSPR you have plenty of stations receiving 24/7
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[16:32] <LeoBodnar> I would not want to TX on any ham band without license.
[16:33] <KT5TK> Of course not, but geting a license is not too hard
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> Is WSPR on 30m?
[16:33] <KT5TK> Yes, most activity is there
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> Well, 30m antenna is even worse than 21m :-)
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[16:39] <mfa298> one of the problems with using the lower frequencies is that a decent antenna will be larger than the uk 2m limit for no NOTAM.
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> AWG38 wire cannot be seriously considered a part of payload :)
[16:42] <LeoBodnar> Is 27MHz still full of CBers?
[16:42] <mfa298> I don't think there's much CB around these days.
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[16:46] <KT5TK> Some CBers are doing PSK31 and may experiment with other digital modes.
[16:47] <mfa298> CB in the UK is legally limited to 80 FM channels and 4W although there are people who operate outside of that.
[16:48] <mfa298> around here it seems to mostly be odd locals chatting late at night
[16:48] <KT5TK> check 11m on http://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> back in the day it was the way to organise a rave
[16:51] <mfa298> some of the people around here on CB sound like that might have gone to some of those raves and taken a bit more of stuff than maybe they should have.
[16:52] <KT5TK> http://rosmodem.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/ros-on-27-mhz/
[16:54] <nigelvh> BTW, KT5TK, looking at your photos from the most recent flight, is there a bit of wire heading up as well as down for the antenna?
[16:54] <nigelvh> Kind of hard to tell.
[16:54] <KT5TK> Yes, it's a halfwave dipole
[16:55] <KT5TK> T use the grounded half as the tie to the balloon
[16:55] <nigelvh> Cool. I thought it looked like a bit of black wire.
[16:55] Action: SpeedEvil ponders statistical raves.
[16:55] Action: SpeedEvil puts on 'Let the bayes cannon kick it'.
[16:55] <nigelvh> I'm also curious about PP4's AUDIO vs MODULATION scheme.
[16:56] <nigelvh> Do you populate resistors to both at the same time, or do you disconnect the side you're not using?
[16:57] <KT5TK> No, I just want to have multiple options
[16:57] <KT5TK> atm I only use VCXO modulation
[16:58] <nigelvh> K, makes sense. I was just looking at the schematic and it seemed you'd be double modulating, digitally, and by pulling the VCXO if you had both connected at the same time.
[16:58] <KT5TK> no, not at the same time
[16:58] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's what I figured.
[16:59] <KT5TK> My rtty experiments indicated that with the old circuit I couldn't get fine enough resolution
[16:59] <nigelvh> Fine enough resolution with tone spacing?
[17:00] <nigelvh> In theory that's a benefit of RTTY is you can just set dl-fldigi to any spacing you like?
[17:00] <KT5TK> Now I can do optimizations on the resistor divider network or modulate the Si4464 digitally
[17:00] <nigelvh> Or are you trying to match a "common" spacing?
[17:00] <KT5TK> Yes, I had to much drift with the VCXO I use
[17:01] <nigelvh> Oh, that would be more of a problem. Interesting.
[17:02] <KT5TK> So maybe use a fixed XO anduse digital modulation in the Si4464
[17:02] <KT5TK> for rtty
[17:03] <nigelvh> So even when not modulating the VCXO (tristate the pin), it was drifting too much?
[17:03] <KT5TK> I have a TCVCXO here but I haven' tried yet
[17:03] <KT5TK> I still have to do all those experiments
[17:03] <KT5TK> I don't know yet
[17:03] <nigelvh> I've used plenty of cheap SAW resonator radios for RTTY. Haven't had an issue.
[17:05] <KT5TK> Yes, should be solvable. But the standard VCXO I use is made for 20ppm pull
[17:06] <nigelvh> I'm just suprised it's enough of a problem that the VCXO isn't working well for you.
[17:06] <KT5TK> Well it works, but the drift is not nice
[17:06] <LeoBodnar> Is 11m band segmented in any way inside 26.957 - 27.283 MHz area?
[17:07] <KT5TK> I haven't been on CB lately. Likely there are national regulations
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[17:09] <LeoBodnar> It is not impossible that equipment for RXing 13.560 is better than for 27.000
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> Difficult to say, maybe try both?
[17:09] <KT5TK> I think 27 is easier for the first try
[17:10] <KT5TK> get some experiens with the long antenna wires first
[17:10] <KT5TK> experience^
[17:10] <mikestir> sounds like I need to fix my hf rx
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[17:20] <ibanezmatt13> Evening :)
[17:21] <nigelvh> Morning.
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> Just running through a checklist; just over 3 weeks to launch :O
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> And the box hasn't been designed or made yet
[17:23] <KT5TK> We sometimes make the box the night before launch XD
[17:23] <nigelvh> Better than I generally do. I make my box the day or two before.
[17:23] <ibanezmatt13> Wow :)
[17:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'm trying to work out which balloon we should use
[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> I can't see the payload being over 800g or at most no more than 1kg
[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> Hmm, 1200 or 1600... tempted
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[17:33] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 What launch date are you hoping for?
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13> August 24th, a Saturday
[17:33] <daveake> 4 weeks then :p
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> Well, there abouts :)
[17:34] <daveake> :)
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> I've organised it with Steve but I'm trying to sort out equipment for him to put aside and I'm not sure on some of the things :/
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> I think a 1200g balloon is sensible; a 1600 would be a bit extreme for this time
[17:34] <daveake> OK I'm busy that day but I'm sure there'll be people to help
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> Hopefully
[17:35] <daveake> helium launch? I think Steve's landowner doesn't allow H2 in August
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> yep. Was gonna do H2 but that was just a limitation we couldn't get around
[17:35] <daveake> Best you use He anyway really. Less to worry about.
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13> yeah
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[17:36] <cyclops> hi
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13> To tell you the truth daveake, we're planning to finish the entire project either this weekend or next week to give us some breathing time. We may be able to launch 7 days earlier than planned
[17:36] <ibanezmatt13> But that I'm not too sure about :)
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13, Just use duterium. After all - it's not hydrogen.
[17:37] <daveake> OK well I'm busy the whole weekend 17th/18th
[17:37] <daveake> Again plenty of others can help
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13> hopefully yes. How do I decide which parachute to use?
[17:38] <ibanezmatt13> The payload will definitely be no more than 1000g
[17:38] <ibanezmatt13> I reckon somewhere in between 800 and 1000
[17:38] <ibanezmatt13> And I'm going to use a 1200
[17:39] <daveake> use the chute guide in the wiki
[17:40] <daveake> And the answer is a 36" spherachute
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :) I'll read it anyway
[17:40] <daveake> for 800g
[17:40] <daveake> Probably go up to a 42 if it's 1kg
[17:41] <ibanezmatt13> Thanks for that info. Does payload weight include the chord and cable ties and things like that?
[17:41] <daveake> Everything the chute needs to carry
[17:42] <mclane> what happened to sp9uob?
[17:42] <daveake> then when you do the burst calc you should include the parachute weight
[17:42] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[17:43] Action: ibanezmatt13 requires thinking time...
[17:43] <ibanezmatt13> So realistically it could get up to 3000g
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[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> daveake: Am I right in thinking you sent a 1KG+ payload and got over 33km?
[17:45] <ibanezmatt13> Or was that H2?
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[18:09] <iain_g4sgx> Hmm, noticed that google indexes some if not all of the old logs on this channel. Every convo is saved and available to search. Not sure I like that, it tickles my innate sense of paranoia. Watch what you say! lol
[18:10] <nigelvh> The logs are actually a feature implemented by the guys who manage the channel.
[18:10] <nigelvh> It's quite handy. There's a lot of traffic on the channel, so I use the logs to go back to see further parts of conversations I might have not been around for.
[18:11] <cde> iain_g4sgx: don't worry. at some point the universe will run out of energy and the logs will be of no concern to anyone
[18:11] <mfa298> a fair number of irc channels have some sort of log like that - generally done by having a bot on the channel
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[18:11] <iain_g4sgx> Sure logs are good, but a NOFOLLOW would be nice, if you know where they are.
[18:12] <mfa298> at least this way you know they are spying on you rather than spying in secret.
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[18:17] <iain_g4sgx> he he, yeh. I was going to ask about if anyone knew a good source for PGP Desktop with max bit encryption but dont think i'll bother now! (oops) Last thing i heard th US wouldnt allow it, said it was a terrorist weapon and any user is therefore obviously al-quaida
[18:18] <iain_g4sgx> Set a few filters off there i bet
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[18:23] <cyclops> back!
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[18:34] <cyclops> yay! just got a amateur radio organization interested in my launch
[18:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> mclane: the sun was set, it should wake up at the sunrise
[18:39] <mfa298> cyclops: well done
[18:39] <Upu> cyclops excellent
[18:39] <cyclops> :D
[18:39] <Upu> recruit recruit :)
[18:39] <cyclops> I emailed a few yesterday
[18:40] <cyclops> I want to populate spain with antennas
[18:40] <Upu> so do we
[18:40] <Upu> southern France and Spain are black holes in our network
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[18:40] <cyclops> I now just need to know the freq and the'll be ready
[18:40] <Upu> its whatever you want
[18:40] <Upu> within a few channels
[18:40] <cyclops> Yeah upu I saw that
[18:41] <cyclops> No antennas nearby
[18:41] <Upu> I've not coded up really granular control over the frequency
[18:41] <cyclops> The thing is that dave told me to test in launchsite which freq had the less noise
[18:41] <cyclops> Or at home
[18:42] <cyclops> But as im launching 80km away from where i am a preffer to test there
[18:42] <cyclops> Upu, Ive seen the code and i saw that you could choose between a few freq right?
[18:42] <Upu> yep
[18:42] <Upu> eventually you should be able to stick it on an exact frequency
[18:43] <Upu> but at the moment you're stuck to one of 32 channels
[18:43] <cyclops> the thing is test that freqs and find one with little noise
[18:43] <cyclops> At least the place where ill be launching its open field
[18:43] <cyclops> So lets see what I get there
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[18:48] <cyclops> Well upu i think that by this are are no antennas because almost no balloons are launched
[18:48] <cyclops> And the ones which are, usually use APRS
[18:48] <Upu> ----/\ that
[18:48] <cyclops> Spain has a lot of APRS repeaters
[18:49] <cyclops> so its more common to use that that RTTY with no antennas
[18:50] <cyclops> But as I dont have license or the money to get it, RTTY over 430mhz FTW
[18:55] <fsphil> it's a good way to use those photons
[18:58] <Billabong> if i transmit
[18:59] <Billabong> using NTX2, if i transmit a beep if i am stood next to the transmitter with an FM radio on 434.075 should I hear anything (havent got access to SSB at the mo)
[19:01] <fsphil> a constant carrier will produce silent on an FM radio
[19:01] <fsphil> silence
[19:01] <fsphil> vs. static when it's off
[19:02] <fsphil> varying the frequency makes the sound. 300 baud sounds like a deep rumble
[19:02] <fsphil> a 50 baud signal sounds like a clicking or buzzing sound on rtty
[19:02] <fsphil> on FM*
[19:03] <fsphil> but that only works at short range
[19:03] <fsphil> or with a good directional antenna at longer ranges
[19:03] <Billabong> fsphill i am getting nothing at all so circuit might be wrong
[19:04] <fsphil> at it's most basic, all you need is VCC, GND and EN wired up
[19:04] <fsphil> EN should be wired to VCC
[19:04] <fsphil> that should enough to power it up and have it produce a carrier
[19:04] <Billabong> fsphil i will try that
[19:05] <fsphil> if you applied audio to TXD you should hear it on an FM receiver
[19:05] <fsphil> though it's not very good
[19:06] <cyclops> Upu: Habduino code allreay emits the Telemetry ready to upload to Spacenear right?
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[19:30] <Billabong> fsphil, that worked thanks at leats i know its working
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[19:31] <Billabong> are there any scripts about incoroprate Arduino, NTX2 & Ublox, i.e to transmit gps coordinates in RTTY
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[19:45] <fsphil> there's some example code on the ukhas wiki for generating rtty
[19:45] <fsphil> and putting the ublox into flight mode
[19:45] <fsphil> the rest isn't too difficult at all
[19:46] <fsphil> not sure if there are complete examples
[19:47] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[19:55] <steve_2e0vet> thanks
[19:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all (i hope my baloon will wake up in the morning :))
[19:59] <fsphil> nite!
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[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:14] <Willdude123> Hi
[20:14] <cyclops> Hi
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[20:14] <Willdude123> Yah it'z good
[20:14] <Willdude123> How'z your life yah Lunar?
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> I am good, thanks
[20:15] <Willdude123> Zhat is goot yah
[20:16] TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[20:16] <Willdude123> I am in Turkey yah
[20:17] TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[20:18] <fsphil> I'm not sure I'd take a tablet if it was evil
[20:18] <fsphil> and I'd be suspicous of the doctor who prescribed it
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[20:23] <cyclops_> I have wi-fi
[20:23] <cyclops_> *hate
[20:23] <Willdude123> lol
[20:23] <fsphil> wifi shouldn't be that bad unless you're not getting a good signal where you are
[20:23] <Willdude123> Mine is
[20:23] <cyclops_> I do get full signal
[20:23] Nick change: TabletEvil -> SpeedEvil
[20:24] <cyclops_> But I dont know why it disconnects
[20:24] <cyclops_> Randomly
[20:24] <Willdude123> About 150 kbit/s
[20:24] <fsphil> I had better internet than you when I was on an isolated island over the weekend Willdude123 :)
[20:24] <Willdude123> Well, that's to a localish server
[20:24] <cyclops_> And if someone is between the router and me, cya internet
[20:24] <Willdude123> lol there was a huge facebook argument about pikeys
[20:24] <cyclops_> Thats why I preffer cable
[20:24] cyclops (5819678b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[20:25] <Willdude123> Someone says that it's all racist and she's handing all the comments to the police
[20:25] <fsphil> ethernet is best, but wifi is so handy
[20:25] <Willdude123> And they'll arrest us for what, having an opinion?
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[20:27] <cyclops_> Yeah fsphil i do agree, beeing in the couch with the tablet or iPhone
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Possibly - yes, if the speech rises to the level of inciting racial hatred.
[20:27] <cyclops_> But for the desktop Ethernet FTW
[20:27] <fsphil> people have been arrested for jokes on facebook/twitter
[20:27] <Willdude123> That shouldn't be illegal
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: But it is, in some instances.
[20:28] <mfa298> a lot depends on context.
[20:28] <Willdude123> I had a carefully worded argument, because the OP of the post posed an interesting question.
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[20:29] <mfa298> there are a lot of words/phrases that can be offensive to people of which pikey is one.
[20:29] <Willdude123> Of which none of those with differing opinions could actually understand
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> In short - you don't get to tell people that they shouldn't be offended by a term.
[20:29] <Willdude123> So
[20:29] <Willdude123> It should be up to them
[20:30] <Willdude123> If it's offensive to you, ignore it
[20:30] <Willdude123> You are solely responsible to what you listen to
[20:31] <mfa298> there are terms that have turned into being offensive towards groups of people and pikey is one of those words, in a similar way to various other words used to decribe other races.
[20:31] <jcoxon> so balloons and stuff...
[20:31] <Willdude123> Yesh
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[20:32] <Willdude123> If I don't get arrested beforw I can do a flight :-\
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[20:32] <Laurenceb_> #Willwhoes
[20:33] <cyclops_> what does "pikey" stands for?
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> letmegooglethatforyou.com
[20:33] <cyclops_> no trasnlation
[20:33] <mfa298> Willdude123: I should probably point you at the line I said earlier about general rules on IRC which would hold true for any internet forum
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> rules and irc?!
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> no such thing :P
[20:34] <Willdude123> Yesh
[20:34] <cyclops_> ok i see now
[20:34] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> as you see
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> its just what mood jcoxon is in
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> phew hes gone
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[20:35] <Laurenceb_> argggg
[20:35] <Willdude123> Apologies for bringing it up
[20:36] Action: Laurenceb_ returns to more productive activites
[20:36] <Willdude123> In himdsight I suppose I should have kept such an opinion to myself
[20:37] <Willdude123> Anyway as jcoxon said so balloons...
[20:39] <Willdude123> Are there any good reading materials on PCBs?
[20:39] <Willdude123> They aound interesting
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Well, you can do text on the silkscreen
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyl
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Paper is generally easier
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[20:40] <Willdude123> Haha
[20:40] <Willdude123> Seriously tho
[20:40] <Willdude123> ugh
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> What aspects of?
[20:41] <fsphil> eagle tutorial is probably the best starting point
[20:42] <Willdude123> Like what is a layer and stuff.
[20:43] <mfa298> it's a layer on which you can put copper tracks. So a 1 layer board just has copper traces on one side, 2 layer has copper on the top and bottom. 4 layer has 4 layers where copper tracks can go
[20:44] <fsphil> like a pcb sandwich
[20:44] <fsphil> 4 layers are for when you're doing head wreaking stuff
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[20:45] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[20:46] <fsphil> hiya DL7AD
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[20:48] <steve_2e0vet> can anyone recommend software for use with DVB dongles for tracking?
[20:49] <fsphil> what OS do you use?
[20:49] <steve_2e0vet> win7
[20:49] <fsphil> I've heard good things about SDRSharp
[20:49] <steve_2e0vet> fsphill thanks i'll google it
[20:50] <cyclops_> steve_2e0vet: SDRSharp
[20:50] <cyclops_> and Fd-fldigi
[20:50] <mfa298> SDRSharp is fairly easy to use, SDR Radio V2 is a bit harder but has some useful features (multiple vfos)
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[20:51] <mfa298> so with sdr radio v2 you can track up to 6 payloads at the same time (as long as they're in the recievers sample space - so 2MHz for the rtl devices)
[20:51] <steve_2e0vet> cheers all, finding the download link is a bit of a challenge
[20:52] <Willdude123> So it's just that you can have tracks going along the edge or bottom
[20:52] <Willdude123> ?
[20:52] <mfa298> you'll need to download 2 or 3 bits for either program. The main program, the rtl-sdr module, and zadig (you might also need the rtl-sdr library)
[20:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: for two layer (which is what most people here use) tracks can go on the top and bottom
[20:53] <Willdude123> Hi steve, did you get the ubx working?
[20:53] <Willdude123> Ah right
[20:53] <Willdude123> So how are the copper tracks made?
[20:53] <cyclops_> Unless you use the Funcube
[20:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you've ever looked at something like a graphics card for a pc that will probably be a 4 or 6 layer pcb.
[20:53] <cyclops_> that works "out of the box"
[20:54] <Willdude123> 6 layer? What's the point in that?
[20:54] <cyclops_> More tracks!
[20:54] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, I have got the GPS working (using software serial) and i have had the NTX2 working albiet i listed on 434.075 FM and heard something so that appears to work. All i need to do now is be able to send the GPS data via RTTY and for that i havent got a clue lol
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123, Start out with 'printed circuit board' on wikipedia
[20:55] <mfa298> with a complex circuit it becomes impossible to put all the tracks on 2 layers. more layers give more options.
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: Tracks can't cross. They need to move to different layers to cross. Modern devices can need a LOT of connections. Many thousands.
[20:55] <Willdude123> Don't use ss in a flight
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[20:55] <Willdude123> Its quite unstable
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> There is a tradeoff between packing density - how close yuou can put the components - pin pitch - pcb track pitch, number of layers and cost
[20:55] <Willdude123> Right
[20:56] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, i havent got any idea how to do HWS,
[20:56] <Willdude123> Best figure it out., Try debugging it with u-center
[20:56] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, tried and tried and tried
[20:56] <steve_2e0vet> ive tried debugging it with the serial monitor and all i get is crap
[20:56] <Willdude123> Plug it directly into the ftdi
[20:57] <Willdude123> As in the ubx
[20:57] <Willdude123> See what you get
[20:57] <cyclops_> O god it takes so long to validate a bitcoin trasnsaction
[20:57] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, plug the GPS direct into the FTDI ???
[20:57] <Willdude123> cyclops_: You need a trans fee.
[20:57] <Willdude123> Yes
[20:58] <Willdude123> Tx to rx
[20:58] <Willdude123> rx to tx
[20:58] <cyclops_> Yaeab but localbitcoins dont offer that option
[20:58] <Willdude123> If you don't have one, it will never confirm
[20:58] <Willdude123> Steve
[20:58] <Willdude123> Yes
[20:58] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, I thought the HWS method was just so you can debug - i.e put another FTDI on but wouldnt work
[20:59] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, yes
[20:59] <Willdude123> And use u center
[20:59] <Willdude123> It is
[20:59] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, OK simple question - how do you know if you are using HSW or SS
[20:59] <Willdude123> But it will help you understand if the gps works
[20:59] <Willdude123> What do you mean?
[21:00] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, i have got the GPS working in u-centre but not really sure if it is SS or HWS
[21:00] <steve_2e0vet> there are 2 scripts
[21:00] <steve_2e0vet> 1 for hws and one for ss
[21:00] <steve_2e0vet> the HWS just produces junk
[21:00] <steve_2e0vet> the SS works
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> how do you hook the GPS up?
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> do you have an arduino?=
[21:01] <steve_2e0vet> arduino
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> which arduino and which GPS?
[21:01] <steve_2e0vet> tx & rX to pins 4 5
[21:01] <Willdude123> OK
[21:01] <steve_2e0vet> ublox and uno
[21:01] <Willdude123> SS works, so tge gps must work
[21:01] <steve_2e0vet> yes it does
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea do you have the 5V regulator version or the normal one?
[21:02] <steve_2e0vet> think its the 5v
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah, strange that the comms work without a level shifter
[21:02] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, i'm lost again....
[21:03] <Willdude123> Lol my hotel gives me beer in the minibar wvem though I'm pretty sure they know I'm 13
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[21:03] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, actually the version of the uno i have is the "copy"
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> what does that mean?
[21:03] <Willdude123> I vill let lunar explain zis to you yah
[21:04] <ibanezmatt13> Upu: That AVR-ISP500 programmer you linked me to earlier today, it only has the in line 6 pin header. Is there one with a 3x2 header?
[21:04] <steve_2e0vet> if i posted a picture of the setup would that show if it was using HWS or SS, (thats how much of a NOOOB) i am
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> a picture would be good to understand the situation
[21:04] <steve_2e0vet> i'll be back .... with one
[21:05] <Willdude123> But you really should understand the code you're using and the reqd set up
[21:05] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, I understand it a lot more than i did on Friday LOL
[21:05] <steve_2e0vet> i just cannot get my head round the HWS and SS
[21:05] <ibanezmatt13> ping Upu
[21:06] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: the 6 pin connector probably is the 2x3 (that's a fairly standard ISP connector)
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[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: yeah just found it. The one I was looking at had 1x6
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: https://www.olimex.com/Products/AVR/Programmers/AVR-ISP500-TINY/ /
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> ?
[21:07] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, here is the link http://i.imgur.com/8gM60hI.jpg
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:08] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: there are two different connectors that have been used 2x3 and a larger one (I thought it was 2 rows of 5/6 pins)
[21:09] <mfa298> although 2x3 seems to be the prefered
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[21:09] <mfa298> that looks like it's a 2x10 connector as well on there - but a lot of the pins are connected to ground
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> steve_2e0vet, that seems OK
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> what is the green board to the right?
[21:10] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, thats the UM232R that i cannot get working, I was told I need that for hardware serial
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> let me think
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea the idea is the following
[21:11] <cyclops_> lunch
[21:11] <cyclops_> *donner
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> if you connect your GPS to the hardware UART, i.e. pins 0 and 1, you tie up the serial connection of the Uno
[21:12] <cyclops_> *dinner
[21:12] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, this is the script i am using http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=frontpage:levelconvertor
[21:12] <cyclops_> Afk
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> this it can't talk to the computer anymore
[21:12] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, its the first one
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> *thus
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> and you would like to move to the second one?
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[21:12] <steve_2e0vet> yea
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> want an explaination why the extra board is needed?
[21:13] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, I am presuming HWS is just to debug, it doesnt go in the ballon
[21:13] <Willdude123> Well
[21:13] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, would very much appriciate one
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> HWS is required
[21:14] <Willdude123> It's used in flight
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> the UART is timing critical and SoftSerial depends on CPU usage
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> so that can screw up
[21:14] <Willdude123> SS would be silly on a flight
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> ok, GPS would be wired to 0 and 1, this is the HWS
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> and thus you block the connection to the computer
[21:14] <steve_2e0vet> ok so my question is still how do i know if i have configured hardware or software serial
[21:14] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, ok
[21:14] <Willdude123> In the ss example hardware serial is used for debug and ss for the gps.
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> because, if you have the USB cable in the arduino, it is basically connected to 0 and 1
[21:15] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, ok at the moment i have gps in 4 &5
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> so you can't do that if the GPS is on these pins, thus you wire the FTDI board to the SoftSerial pins, and have your USB cable on that to read what the arduino outputs
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> and you would exchange this connection to the RX and TX on the FTDI board
[21:16] <Willdude123> Actually, I have almost no experiemce with this (I'm only a teenager) zo I best let Lunar help you yah.
[21:16] <steve_2e0vet> Lunar_Lander, argh ok so only one usb cable required
[21:16] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, shut up LOL
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> you first program the Arduino with the USB and then you unplug it
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> and then you can connect the GPS
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> another thing
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> you cannot program while something is on the pins 0 and 1
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> could cause damage
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> well, there is one thing
[21:17] <daveake> It won't cause damage
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> you'd need to power the arduino
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> using the battery jack there
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
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[21:18] <daveake> It's just the Arduino Rx line that's the problem not both of them
[21:18] <daveake> several options but SS is the least best
[21:19] <daveake> Best would be buying a programmer instead of using the USB to program it
[21:20] <steve_2e0vet> Willdude123, you can come back now
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:20] <craag> +1 for buying an ICSP programmer
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[21:21] <Willdude123> Ok
[21:21] <Willdude123> But it's my bedtime. :-)
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[21:57] <Steve_2E0VET> Lunar_Lander, just one more uestion if i may. if i just disconnect the FTDI (pins 4/5/gnd) will the gps still be sending data via HWS
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> you mean if there is still power?
[21:58] <Steve_2E0VET> yes,
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea the arduino will continue to execute that program
[21:59] <Steve_2E0VET> ok i am sure it will all come together when i get the NTX2 installed
[21:59] <Upu> Lunar helping people out :)
[21:59] <Upu> Upu is like proud dad
[21:59] <Steve_2E0VET> upu yeah he fixed my ublox/ardino in HWS mode
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, thanks :)
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[22:27] <cyclops> night!
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[23:02] DL7AD (~sven@c-76-30-70-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[23:26] gonzo_ (~gonzo_@host-2-99-36-199.as13285.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[23:34] cyclops (5819678b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
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[00:00] --- Mon Jul 29 2013